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1991-02-27 SP ----- --" QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 27TH, 1991 INDEX Area Variance No. 11-1991 Kelly and Lindsay Carte 1. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. 0yf} , ./ --- - QUEENS BURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 27TH, 1991 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER. CHAIRMAN SUSAN GOETZ. SECRETARY CHARLES SICARD BRUCE CARR JEFFREY KELLEY MEMBERS ABSENT MICHAEL SHEA JOYCE EGGLESTON TOWN ATTORNEY-PAUL DUSEK ZONING ADMINISTRATOR-PAT COLLARD PLANNER-JOHN GORALSKI OLD BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 11-1991 TYPE II HC-IA KELLY AND LINDSAY CARTE OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE LOT 2, QUAKER RIDGE, EAST QUAKER SERVICE ROAD FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW RETAIL FURNITURE STORE. PROJECT WILL NOT HAVE THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP 11). 110-1-2.63 LOT SIZE: 2.03 ACRES SECTION 7.072 RUSSELL SCUDDER. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT MR. TURNER-Do you want to read the tabling motion. MRS. GOETZ-The motion was to table this application number 11-1991, Kelly and Lindsay Carte. It was introduced by Bruce Carr and seconded by Charlie Sicard. MR. TURNER-Okay. That's it? MRS. GOETZ-Yes. MR. TURNER-Do we have the new information? MR. CARR-Yes. I think it's 8~ spaces now? MR. TURNER-He's got 85? MR. SCUDDER-Eighty. My name is Russell Scudder. I'm here on behalf of Kelly and Lindsay Carte. We've revised the site plan to include 80 spaces now, up from the 49 that were proposed previously. This is the maximum number of parking spaces we can get on the lot and still maintain the required setbacks. the reserved green area. permeable space and handle our on-site waste water and storm water. MR. CARR-How many are you required to have? MR. SCUDDER-We're required to have 110 under the zone. MR. TURNER-II0. yes. They're all 9 by 20's. right? Is that typical according to this? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. MR. TURNER-Does anyone have any questions? MR. CARR-Well. after looking at the map I'm much more at ease allowing a smaller. less than, I mean they were asking for a 50 percent decrease in the required parking. more than that. Now, they're asking for about a 27 percent. I'm a lot more comfortable with that. MR. TURNER-Yes. That's a little easier to deal with. MR. CARR-I mean. it's not the greatest layout, but I don't know if you can do anything about that. given the... 1 MR. TURNER-Well. given the plot of the building. MR. CARR-Yes. the plot of the building and the land configuration. MR. TURNER-The size of the land. right. MR. SCUDDER-I should point out, also. if I might interrupt for just a moment, that the parking spaces on the western side. toward me on your particular map there. are going to remain green. MR. TURNER-Green space? MR. SCUDDER-Right. MR. GORALSKI-That's if the Planning Board approves that. MR. TURNER-Yes. if they approve. MR. SICARD-Are any under the power lines? MR. CARR-No. There are none on the lands of Niagara Mohawk, right? MR. SCUDDER-That's right. MR. CARR-You didn't account for any of those. MR. SCUDDER-That's right. There wasn't time to consummate any kind of deal. MR. CARR-It's probably just as well. MR. SCUDDER-I think so. MR. CARR-Yes. If worse comes to worse and NiMo is true to their word, if they needed another 20 spaces perhaps at that point you could expand under it. MR. TURNER-Yes, they could pick them up. sure. MR. CARR-But at least they haven't used it at this point. MR. TURNER-Right. MR. SCUDDER-Right. We're not going to foreclose any options along that line. able to get it all together. on paper and over to them and reviewed and so on. for that. We just haven't been There just wasn't time MR. KELLEY-What was the number they came up with. 80 what? MR. CARR-Eighty. MR. SCUDDER-Eighty. MR. TURNER-Eighty 9 by 20's. MR. SCUDDER-Yes. and that includes four handicapped. MR. TURNER-Right. MR. KELLEY-We had a discussion about 9 by 20's at the last meeting. right? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-That that was going to be a proposed, it h a proposed change. MR. TURNER-It h proposed. yes. MR. CARR-Sue. how do you feel about it? MRS. GOETZ-I think it's a better plan. I like the fact that it's on the diagram. that we aren't just voting on a number without it being laid out and they're meeting the permeability or we'd know about it. right? MR. TURNER- Yes. 2 ---- MR. GORALSKI-Yes. that's been checked. MR. TURNER-It's right on the map. MR. KELLEY-I'll ask you a question, I guess, about the building. It appears that the entrance is in the front? MR. SCUDDER-There's an entrance in the front on the fi rst f100r 1eve1 and then there's an entrance on the western side. southwestern corner. I'll pOint it out. MR. KELLEY-Okay. and is there manufacturing in part of this. some p1ace? MR. SCUDDER-Yes. There's some assemb1y and finishing in the rear. MR. KELLEY-Is the basic building a c1ear open space inside or you might have a coup1e of c01umns or something? KELLY CARTE MR. CARTE-Kelly Carte. one of the peop1e before the Board. here. There's going to be four rows of c01umns. Jeff. in the main building and then a centra1 row in the second section which is going to be a warehouse and a centra1 row of c01umns and a third section which wi11 be the assemb1y and finishing, some partitions in there. but we haven't 1aid them out yet. MR. KELLEY-I guess what I'm trying to get at. is it feasib1e. then. that with this proposed new parking, 1ets say. on the northwest side of the property, shou1d this building be s01d and maybe two businesses occupy that bui1ding, wou1d it be 1ike1y that they cou1d use that parking and there cou1d be a provision for another entrance on the back portion of this? MR. CARTE-There is going to be another entrance in through here, now. There wi11 be this 10ading dock. that 10ading dock and there wi11 be a side door in here. right. at the present time. MR. KELLEY-Right. MR. CARTE-So someone cou1d use it, if it was divided off. they cou1d use that as a... MR. KELLEY-Right, because if it were not easily adaptab1e, it wou1d be a 10ng way to park back here and wa1k way around here to come to the front of a business. but if the bui1ding were designed in such a way that other entrances cou1d be provided. MR. CARTE-Yes. We are going to make provisions here and maybe even one over on this side. here, when we get it 1aid out. but it has a first f100r entrance here and here and an upper entrance wi11 be here and a 10ft way around and it's 11ke an e1evated deck around here. more for decorative than anything e1se. MR. KELLEY-Okay. Thank you. MR. SICARD-Teddy, is the sign in comp1iance with the Ordinances? MR. TURNER-I don't know. They haven't proposed it. MR. SICARD-It's right in this corner. MR. TURNER-It's right in the corner. He has 15 feet back from the 1ine. Depending on the size of the sign, it's going to be 50 square feet. MR. CARTE-Right. We've submitted a drawing prepared by K.D. Whee1er. MR. TURNER-Yes. Adirondack Rustic Signs. Is that what you're going to put up? MR. CARTE-We11. I think it's wooden sign, in keeping, right. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARTE-And that drawing has been submitted to the P1anning Staff. It wi11 be in conformance. MR. SICARD-What wi11 the hours be. 1ike, when it's going to be 1it, 24 hours a day or haven't you made any p1ans on that? I'm just curious. MR. CARTE-We haven't rea11y thought about that. Do you know? LI NDSA Y CARTE 3 MR. LINDSAY CARTE· The way our stores are now, they're on time clocks. I'm Lindsay Carte. The way our stores are, both of our, three of our other stores are now, the sign is on a time clock. They go off at usually 10:30 or 11 o'clock at night and come on when it gets dark. We wouldn't leave them on all night. MR. TURNER-Okay. I've got a question for you. How much manufacturing are you going to do there? How much assembly? Are you going to do actual manufacturing of the product? MR. LINDSAY CARTE-We do build some stuff ourselves. As a percentage of what we sell. it's, I'd say about five percent or so. MR. TURNER-What kind of machinery are you going to have in there? Are you going to have planers? Are you going to have lathes? MR. LINDSAY CARTE-No lathes. We have a small planer. a table saw, a joiner. router. The biggest piece I guess would be the planer. but it's only a 15 inch planer. It's a two horsepower motor. MR. TURNER-Because if you get in too big of an area of manufacturing. then you come under Light Industrial. You've got a multi use facility. then. That's all I'm saying. MR. KELLY CARTE-We have only one employee that builds custom stuff. one piece at a time and his production is limited by how much one guy can do in a day, basically. So. last year, he said about five. Last year. I measured it for the insurance purposes. between retail sales and manufacturing we had to do. it was six percent and every year it gets less and less because he can't do any more and we continue to sell more retail. I mean the retail end of the thing keeps going up and hi s production is pretty much taking up one man on a weeks basis. MR. TURNER-Do you buy any of your product off site and have it shipped in and then assemble it there or what? MR. KELLY CARTE-Yes. We do. MR. TURNER-How much of that do you do? MR. KELLY CARTE-Well. see a lot of it comes knocked down. like tables come with the legs off them. There's very little of it that comes, that you have to put it all together. but there's quite a bit that comes. a rocker comes without the rockers on and we put those on, that type of thing. There maybe 20 percent or something that has to have something done to it. but that's no different than any furniture store as far as the way the tables come in or chairs or whatever. MR. TURNER-No. MRS. GOETZ-Was that always true of your business? I thought it was mostly custom. I'm surprised. MR. KELLY CARTE-Well, when we started out it was 100 percent custom. every piece in the store was. but within six months of opening the doors, we began to buy stuff and we really, within a year or two. out stripped the capacity to make all our stuff and it's been purchased stuff ever since then. as I said, lesser and lesser percentage. We never do any less of the custom stuff. but as a percentage it goes down hill. MRS. GOETZ-Could I just review the size of the parking spots. This 9 by 20, is that what Aviation Mall has? MR. DUSEK-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-And is this proposed to be consistent throughout the Town at some point MR. DUSEK-Well. the 9 by 20 parking spots are going to be, well. they're under consideration and that's one of the things that you have on your agenda tonight is the Ordinance. It's proposed that. it will be proposed for Recreational Commercial, Plaza Commercial. Commercial Residential, Neighborhood Commercial shopping centers and industrial uses right now. Although. my recollection is. Pat or John. I think you were at that meeting of the Planning Board. Weren't they saying 9 by 20 for everybody. they'd like to promote? MR. GORALSKI·Yes. The Planning Board recommended that the size of parking spaces be consistent throughout the entire Town at 9 by 20. MRS. GOETZ-So if we should grant the 9 by 20. we're not way off base. MR. GORALSKI-Not at all. MR. TURNER-No. That's minimum relief anyway. 4 MR. DUSEK-I might add that there are some places in Town. because of their preexisting Zoning Ordinance. already have 9 by 20. MR. GORALSKI-Some have 8 by 20. MR. DUSEK-Well, yes. MR. TURNER-If my memory serves me right. didn't we grant the animal hospital up on Ridge the 9 by? We talked about it. They talked about it. They raised the question. at the time. MRS. GOETZ-What is the Queensbury Plaza? Do you know, off hand. the size of theirs? MR. GORALSKI-I don't know off the top of my head. I would say that they're no larger than 9 by 20. They're probably 8 by 20 or 8 by 18, to be honest with you. MRS. GOETZ-Yes. They're difficult. MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further questions? MR. KELLEY-Well, we still have a proposed future addition of 32 by 64. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. KELLEY-So. I guess if it's proposed and lets say they did it. how many more spaces do you have to have for that or what percentage is that going to increase this variance to? I mean. I don't know that I have a problem. particularly. with the 80 sites that are proposed. but if you start adding on more building. well. the proportion of parking spaces goes down again and do we really want that? MR. CARR-When you figured out that 110. was that including the proposed addition? MR. GORALSKI-No. It was not. MR. TURNER-No. MR. CARR-How many spaces would that addition add? MR. TURNER-What have you got, there. for square footage, Jeff? MR. KELLEY-2.048. MR. SCUDDER-Actually. isn't it 2,000? MR. TURNER-2,048. MR. SCUDDER-It's 5.5 spaces per thousand square feet of gross floor area. MR. KELLEY-So, you've got to have another eleven spaces. MR. TURNER-Eleven more spaces. MR. KELLEY-With 110 plus 11 more it would be 121. MR. TURNER-121. MR. CARR-Paul. if we grant the variance based on the request, not the proposed future addition because we aren't deciding on that. what happens if they build again? MR. DUSEK-Well. I think you could stipulate that it's to that building and that in order for them to do anything in the future they'd have to come back before you. MR. CARR-And if we don't stipulate to that. what's the effect? MRS. COLLARD-They'd still be coming back before you. MR. DUSEK-I would say that. but I would rather. if the Board's intention was, you know. if that's what you're thinking is going to happen. you'd be better to say it in the motion. rather than just not say it and assume it's going to happen. MR. CARR-When are you proposing to build this addition? MR. SCUDDER-We're not certain of that, at this point. MR. TURNER-Is there any concept to putting the mattress store in conjunction with the furniture store. within the furniture store? 5 -- MR. KELLY CARTE-We had planned on doing the mattress one, if it transpires, in the upper floor of the main building. lets put it this way. The other addition was for a future expansion of ours. I mean. we didn't want to close the door and we have 2,000 more feet. under the Ordinance. that we could build. So. we wanted to just show it out there. as to where it would be in case we wanted to expand the furniture store. As you're aware from last week, I guess, we're not going to use one quarter of these parking spaces for our business. MR. TURNER-We know. MR. KELLY CARTE-So the fact that we added 2,000 feet on is not really going to impact at all in the parking for our business. The future sale of the building or something like this I can't speculate on. but we also had planned on approaching Niagara Mohawk anyway to talk to them about either parking andlor stormwater runoff or whatever onto their property and figured that, if necessary, for ourselves or for anyone in the future. if we got an approval from them for this situation then it would take care of that additional 2.000 feet without any problem. MRS. GOETZ-There are a lot of if's. though. here, when it comes to any proposed addition. MR. TURNER-You weren't here. last week. when we talked about it, about the proposed addition. The very same remarks came up as you just stated and I think you indicated maybe that you might not even build it. MR. KELLY CARTE-It's purely a matter of wanting to show where we were going to put it if we did do it so that you'd be aware of it and to show that we have the 2.000 feet addition under the Ordinance, as far as square footage of building goes and we could conceivably fit it on there. We certainly can fit it on if you're just considering the usage, our present usage of the building. I mean, we don't intend on selling this thing, either. for that matter. but it's pretty hard to speculate as to what somebody else is going to do with it down the road. MR. TURNER-Yes. That's why we sent you back for the additional parking because we weren't comfortable with. you know. we didn't have any problem with you being there. but we were talking long term. MR. KELLY CARTE-Yes. MR. CARR-Ted. if it's true that they would have to come back for the proposed addition anyway because they would obviously need another parking variance for adding space. why don't we. if we vote favorably on this project, just make a stipulation so everybody knows that they would have to come back. So then it would be perfectly clear, and then kind of play it by ear at that point, because if it's developed already and there's parking problems there. then we aren't going to want to give them another 2.000 square feet to add to it, but if the person next door builds a parking lot or something. you know. that there's plenty of parking in the area. then maybe it's not such a big deal. I mean, they're the first ones going in. so it's kind of hard to predict one way or the other. MR. TURNER-Yes, absolutely. MR. CARR-So I would be more comfortable, I think, just with the stipulation or just the statement being made that this variance is for the building, not the proposed addition. MR. TURNER-Last week. I think, Mr. Carte indicated that the proposed retail space. that addition was supposed to be for the mattress store. MR. CARR-Right. but now I'm hearing, tonight. you don't know when. MR. LINDSAY CARTE-Yes. but the mattress store could also be in the upper part. There's a little more space than we need right now. We're thinking for the future. MR. TURNER-Yes. Well. that's the first new news that we've heard about. That's why I raised the question. MR. CARR-And right now. I mean. since it is in the future. it's not necessarily going to happen, it's not necessarily not going to happen. I just can't see getting hung up on it for too long. MR. TURNER-No. I'm not hung up on it. MR. LINDSAY CARTE-Right. That's the way I feel about it. MR. TURNER-I'm not hung up on it a bit. I just wanted to raise the question and bring it out as to where we stood. that's all. I'm not hung up on it. MRS. GOETZ-I agree with what Bruce just said. that this variance should apply to just the building that's being built now. 6 MR. TURNER- Yes. MRS. GOETZ-And we could deal with the other later. if it ever happens. You might have more concrete information from Niagara Mohawk at a later date and it's only good planning. Yes, you are allowed to put in X amount more square feet. but you also have a problem with your parking. So, because of that problem. we have certain things we have to consider. MR. KELLEY-I think I asked this last week, but I'm need to refresh my memory and that was. you chose this particular lot and I guess my question would be, why did you choose this lot and what other lots were available in this new development or whatever that would have had more square footage and why didn't you consider those. MR. KELLY CARTE-I don't think there was any of them that had any more square footage, frontage, I guess basically was what. there are some that are deeper. but only a minor amount. it's like a tenth of an acre maybe or something li ke thi s and the depth of the next one's up, but that was the one that had the most frontage on the road. It had 220 feet. The rest of them were all 200 feet which we wanted and dollars. I mean. the other one's were $40. $50,000 more for the additional sizes. So we just tried to fit. I mean we were looking. not only at the future. but also at our use of the property. The zoning. parking requirements on the thing seemed to be a very broad brush. In other words, there's a lot of retail usage and no provisions in there for differentiating between a grocery store or a video place and a furniture store, as far as what the parking is tOday. I understand that they have to be. you have to look at the future, but it's a case of how much should we have to pay, today, for some possible future usage and we figure we bought as expensive a piece as we can afford to buy and still put up the building that we need to get up. so that's how we arrived at that piece. basically. It also was the location furthest. except for the triangular corner piece which is the only other lot. it's the one closest to the north. to the established business across from Garden Time and whatever. Going the other way. the land is not as suitable. We wanted the sloping lot to be able to put the two story building on too and the rest of them are all much more level than that. MR. KELLEY-Okay. MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further questions? None? Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COÞlŒNT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE MR. TURNER-Have you got anything new? MRS. GOETZ-We've had it all. MR. TURNER-Okay. Motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 11-1991 KELLY AND LINDSAY CARTE. Introduced by Bruce Carr who moved for its adoption. seconded by Charles Sicard: This would allow the applicant to develop the land as proposed with provisions being made for 80 parking spaces. 9 by 20 feet each. The variance granted would be for a total of 30 spaces and also would be a variance from the requirement that each parking space be 10 by 20. The applicant has demonstrated that the granting of these variances are feasible for the contemplated use of the land by the applicant. The granting of the variance would not be detrimental to the purposes of the Ordinance or the requirement that we should ensure the proper number of parking spaces for retail use. Strict performance with the Ordinance I s rules would create an unnecessary hardshi p. They have demonstrated thi s by the type of business to be put there. It is not a high traffic business. Full compliance with the parking requirements would not be necessary. This variance is given for the proposed building to be built and in no way applies to any future expansion of the building. Any expansion would require further review by this Board. Duly adopted this 27th day of February. 1991. by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carr, Mrs. Goetz. Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Shea. Mrs. Eggleston MR. KELLY CARTE-Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the Board. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner. Chairman 7