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1992-07-22 "~. '~'- o l_~ , ", ~ t (JIEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SECOND REGULAR J£ETING JULY 22ND, 1992 INDEX Area Variance No. 43-1992 John l. Polk, Jr. 1. Area Variance No. 72-1992 Gerald and Wanda Bulger 3. Use Variance No. 73-1992 Stanley A. Juckett 8. Area Variance No. 74-1992 Today's Modern Homes Joe Nudi, Vice Pres. 14. Area Variance No. 76-1992 Norbert H. & Violet H. larney 19. Use Variance No. 77-1992 Karen & Richard Cunningham Hair Designs 27. Area Variance No. 81-1992 Dean Howland, Jr. Howland Construction, Inc. 34. Area Variance No. 82-1992 William T. Vosburgh 40. Use Variance No. 70-1992 John and Susan Wiacek 45. Area Variance No. 78-1992 Kenneth M. Noble Mary Frances Kusior 46. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIAllY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WIll APPEAR ON THE FOllOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WIllS STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS SECOND REGULAR tEETING JULY 22ND, 1992 7:30 P.M. tEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN JOYCE EGGLESTON, SECRETARY FRED CARVIN CHARLES SICARD tEMBERS ABSENT MARIE PALING NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 43-1992 TYPE I WR-lA JOHN L. POLK, JR. OWNER: SAtE AS ABOVE EAST SIDE OF ASSEMBLY POINT APPLICANT RE(JIESTING AREA VARIANCES FOR 3 LOT SUBDIVISION. ACTION IS TO DESIGNATE LEAD AGENT FOR SEQRA REVIEW. (WARREN COONTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 6-3-1 LOT SIZE: 2.14 ACIŒS SECTION 179-15(C} 179-60(B}(I}(C}, 179-7OA BOB STEWART, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MRS. EGGLESTON-Warren County P1anning Board recommends that the Queensbury P1anning Board be the lead Agent for SEQRA Review. MR. TURNER-Since this app1ication has to have that review, then I wou1d move to have the P1anning Board become the lead Agency in the SEQRA Review process. After that review comes back, then we wH1 hear the variance request. MR. STEWART-Can I be heard on that? I'm representing the app1icant. MR. TURNER-A11 right. MR. STEWART-There is some confusion with the Staff because this particu1ar project is not subject to SEQRA Review. It's an exc1uded action because abso1ute1y nothing is being done to the 1and or to the buHdings whatsoever. Not a board is being naHed or a tree p1anted or a dock buHt or anything. It's just a change in the form of ownership. As such, by definition, it's exc1uded from SEQRA because whatever deve 10pment of the 1and is to be done was done 40 or 50 years ago before SEQRA exi sted. So that confusion arose, and when we got before the County P1anning Board 1ast week, they were to1d that your Staff had t01d them to pu11 it off the tab1e because they had to make a ruHng on lead Agency, which they pointed out that they'd never done before. So, we 10st that meeting, over my protests, but we don't be10ng under SEQRA. SEQRA has no re1evance whatsoever to this particu1ar procedure. MR. TURNER-Are you aware of the Section in the Subdivision Regu1ations Page 18310 A183-6 Paragraph 3? Do you know what it says? MR. STEWART-No, I don't. MR. TURNER-An Environmenta1 Assessment, describing the potentia1 environmenta1 impact of the proposed subdivision on the adjoining area of the Town of Queensbury inc1uding an Environmenta1 Assessment Form and proposed actions to minimize potentia11y adverse impacts sha11 be submitted. Additiona1 environmenta1 information may be required in accordance with SEQRA. MR. STEWART-Okay. Now, if you say that when I go before the P1anning Board for the subdivision, they wi11 ask the question, that's fine, but I'm not under SEQRA. SEQRA simp1y, the ru1es and regulations of SEQRA do not touch this appHcation. Now, we were asked to fi1e the long Form information and we did, but a11 you can say is just, no, no, no, no, because there is no work to be done on the property, which is obvious1y the reason why it's exc1uded. MR. TURNER-It's a division of 1and, but just because the bui1dings were there, you're going to divide the property up into different ownerships? MR. STEWART-Right. See, norma11y it's the other way around. Norma11y, you get approva1 for the subdivision with the thought that once it's approved, you're going to start buHding bui1dings and deve10p the 1and. This is reversed. The 1and has been deve10ped for 50 years. It wH1 have to go to the P1anning Board in any event, because if you grant an area variance, then we're asking them to grant a three 10t subdivision. So, they wi11 have to 100k at it, but they've got the same situation, in essence, you do that there is just nothing to be done to the property, no change whatsoever is invo1ved. 1 MR. PARISI-If I may, I'd like to ask you a question. What you're saying, essentially, is that the way the land has been used for the last 50 years is going to be the way it's going to continue to be used under a three lot subdivision/ MR. STEWART-Right. MR. PARISI-How is it being used currently? MR. STEWART-It's being used a three lake front cabins with docks. MR. PARISI-I assume that, currently, it's under one ownership? MR. STEWART-That's right. MR. PARISI-Okay. So, you're looking to have the opportunity to break these into separate ownerships? MR. STEWART-Exactly. The form of ownership is what will change, not the use of the land. MR. PARISI-It's still subject to SEQRA. MR. STEWART-No, it's not, sir. If you'll look at the definition of excluded actions in your SEQRA manual, you will see clearly that it is exempt. Now, I called lee York and discussed this with her, and she said she'd get back to me, but she never called me back, flat out excluded that. In E2, if anyone has the SEQRA Reg's here available, is under the definition of excluded actions, at the beginning of the Section. MR. TURNER-That's what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure I have the right,. Catagories of Actions Excluded says it's action undertaken, funded, or approved prior to the effective date of SEQRA, grandfathered. MR. STEWART-And of course the definition of action is the activity surrounding the property, and the activity surrounding the property was done 40 or 50 years ago when the camp was built, and the docks were built, the septic was put in, and so on. MR. PARISI-Excuse me. Breaking this into three lots, possibly for year round use, is not keeping it in the same use, and it never has been seen that way by the courts. This is not an exempt action. MR. STEWART-I've communicated this to Staff. I assumed that this had been clarified, apparently, nothing's been followed up on it. MR. TURNER-No. Evidently, Mr. Parisi feels that this belongs in front of the Planning Board under SEQRA Review. MR. STEWART-Well, I have no objection to going through SEQRA Review, except when you go down and say, what do you plan do to do, and how will it effect the ecology, the answer is, we're not doing anything. So, you're going to end up with a bunch of noes, but that's all right. MR. PARISI-I'd like to clarify this. Going through SEQRA doesn't mean that you're going to get a positive declaration, or that there'll be any Environmental Impact Statement or any environmental impact, but all subdivisions are subject to SEQRA, and in this case, breaking up what is currently a use that's in one ownership into three ownerships, and obviously the possibility of year round use in a larger density over time does not constitute something that's grandfathered or the same use, and the moment you come in for a subdivision, any grandfathering under SEQRA is, obviously, in the past. MR. STEWART-All right. Perhaps we can get an opinion from the Town Attorney on it and resolve it. MR. TURNER-I think we're going to move it to the Planning Board and you can take it from there. I think I'd have to stand with Mr. Parisi's. JOHN POLK, JR. MR. POLK-I'm one of the owners of the property. I would like you to look at the map, please. I do not like the nomenclature of them being called "cabins". This cottage on the point is, like, 1500 feet. The cottages are rental cottages that we have rented for the purpose of covering our taxes. My main purpose in dividing this area into these areas is to make it available to mY daughters, who also own it with me. I think it is very reasonable to divide this into these lots. and when you call them "cabins", I think it's wrong. These are cottages. One person here on the east cottage, on the cottage on the west side has rented it for 30 years, and they call it their own cottage, and I don't understand your views of this distribution. 2 MOTION TO MAIŒ lHE PlANNING BOARD LEAD AGENCY FOR SEQRA IN REFERENCE TO AREA VARIANCE NO. 43-1992 JOHN L. POLK, JR., Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Egg1eston: Du1y adopted this 22nd day of Ju1y, 1992, by the fo11owing vote: AYES: Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Egg1eston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pa1ing (7:50 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 72-1992 TYPE II WR-lA GERALD AND WANDA. BULGER OWNER: SAtE AS ABOVE GLEN IAIŒ ROAD TO CONSTRUCT A HANDICAP IWP AND DECK FOR SEASONAL CAlF TO PROVIDE ACCESS FOR WIEELCHAIR LESS THAN RE~IRED SIDE YARD AND SHORELINE SETBACK. (WARREN COONTY PlANNING) LOT SIZE: 50 FT. BY 144 FT. SECTION 179-16, 179-60 TIM BULGER, REPRESENTING APPLICANTS, PRESENT (7:50 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior P1anner, Area Variance No. 72-1992, Gera1d & Wanda Bu1ger, Ju1y 13, 1992, Meeting Date: Ju1y 22, 1992 "The app1icant has an existing camp on G1en lake which is nonconforming. It is within 28 feet of the 1ake and does not conform to side yard setbacks. A site visit revea1ed that the camp is being rebui1t on the existing foundation. It appears that a second story was added. The app1icant requests to construct a ramp and deck for whee1chair access. This app1ication was reviewed with regard to the criteria for an area variance. I. Describe the practica1 difficu1ty which does not a110w p1acement of a structure which meets the zoning requirements. The structure is current1y nonconforming. The residence is being rebui1t and consideration for whee1chaÚ access can be made through the rear of the structure. This wou1d not require further encroachment on the 1ake. There is a1so a door on the east side of the house where the 4 foot ramp is anticipated which cou1d be uti1fzed for access with a side yard variance on1y required. 2. Is this the minimum variance necessary to a11eviate the specific practica1 difficu1ty or is there any other option avai1ab1e which wou1d require no variance? The app1icant has other a1ternatives that wou1d require no shore1ine setback variance. The re-construction effort shou1d take into consideration the access for persona1 use. No a1ternatives have been provided which wou1d 1essen the requested variance. 3. Wou1d this variance be detrimenta1 to the other properties in the district or neighborhood or conf1fct with the objectives of any p1an or po1icy of the Town? The neighboring properties have decks within 20 feet of the 1ake shore. However, the 75 foot criteria was estab1ished for 1ake protection. The Board shou1d refer to Pages 16, 17, and 18 of the Comprehensive land Use P1an. G1en lake and environs is a CEA and a drinking water source. The goa1 of the Comprehensive land Use P1an and Ordinance is to over time achieve greater protection to the identified resource by encouraging existing properties into greater conformance. This request wou1d not appear to be in 1ine with the Town's existing po1icy documents. 4. What are the effects of the variance on pub1fc faci1ities and services? None. 5. Is the request the minimum re1ief necessary to a11eviate the specified practica1 difficu1ty? The app1icant cou1d have addressed handicapped access in re-construction. There has not been a practica1 difficu1ty created because of the Ordinance." And the Warren County P1anning Board returned "No County Impact". MR. TURNER-The camp that's there now, was that bui1t on the origina1 footprint? That's a11 brand new, the foundation and everything? Is that correct? Has anybody checked the tax records to see if that camp that existed there before is the same as the one that's on the app1ication? MR. PARISI-It appears to be. MR. TURNER-Okay. I know your neighbor, Mr. Johnson, has a deck. I went up there, tonight, and 100ked at it, before I came here, but his house sits back a 1itt1e bit farther than this one. MRS. EGGLESTON-Is the structure comp1eted yet? MR. TURNER-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, how wou1d you address Staff's comments that, whi1e you're rebui1ding, the whee1chair access cou1d be made through the rear of the structure, make that part of the rebui1ding process, rather than the front, towards the 1ake? MR. TURNER-The door you've got in the side, towards Doy1e's, that's a 32 inch door, isn't it? That's a sma11 door, or is it it a three foot door? MR. BULGER-It's a three foot. MR. TURNER-Is it three foot? It 100ks sma11er than that. MRS. EGGLESTON-Who is the bui1der? 3 MR. BULGER-The builder is Phillip Ashe. MRS. EGGLESTON-He's not here, I take it, so that he could address the issue of? MR. BULGER-Well, I could address the issue. My name is Tim Bulger. I'm the son of Gerald and Wanda Bulger. Where we are in construction, we've located the bathroom in the back of the camp so a doorway coming in the back of the camp, at this point, would require a change of construction plan. MR. TURNER-The three foot door, that's goes into what, the kitchen? MR. BULGER-The three foot door goes into the main kitchen area, and the back of the camp is where the bathroom is. MR. TURNER-Okay. Could you come up here a minute and just describe about where the. MR. BULGER-Sure. MR. TURNER-Just draw in a floor plan there. That's the bathroom there. MR. BULGER-That's the bathroom, and they're all three foot doors. This is a three foot door on the. MR. TURNER-Where's the partition? I couldn't see in there, obviously, because the door was shut, but I went around the front. It looked like maybe there was a partition up here? MR. BULGER-No. Right here. MR. TURNER-What is this? MR. BULGER-This is kitchen. So, the door comes into the kitchen. This is downstairs bedroom. MR. TURNER-Okay. The kitchen is open? MR. BULGER-Yes, all this is open, no partitions. Again, the suggestion to make the ramp come in this direction. MR. TURNER-How about bringing the ramp here, and terminating it there, right in that door? MR. BULGER-Except, I'm not sure if that's Code. Would you need more than one way out? MR. TURNER-You've got a slider right there. MR. BULGER-I've got two sliders. MR. TURNER-Yes. I know there's one here, but I didn't notice the other one. MR. BULGER-One here, and one here. Yes. There's two sliders in the front. So, I know what you're saying. You've got a ramp here, and I know the concern is the deck in the front, but the comment that I would make would be, are we alleviating a problem, yet creating something that wouldn't be, you know, there wouldn't be a second way out, I guess is what I'm saying. MR. TURNER-You've got a cellar under it, because you've got a door for here. MR. BULGER-Yes, there is, it's not a cellar. MRS. EGGLESTON-But per fire codes, if there was an entrance here and two sliding doors up here, that's three entrances or exits, right? MR. TURNER-Yes, but you've got to be able to get out. MR. BUlGER-A wheelchair, see, a wheelchair is the concern. MR. TURNER-You've got a building permit for this? Did you get a building permit, initially? MR. BULGER-Yes. It's on the window in the bathroom. MR. TURNER-Was this on there when you got the building permit? How did you get the building permit with that on it? You wouldn't have gotten it. MR. BULGER-No, I'm not sure. I think that what they did was they made a copy of his drawings, but they taped over this deck, and approved it without the deck, and said that we had to come here to get approval of the deck. So, it was not approved with the deck. They realized that that was your decision, not the building people. 4 ~ MR. CARVIN-Is this going to be a ful1 time residence, or is this just going to be a part time? No, the use on the app1ication is going to stay a seasona1 camp. MR. TURNER-Obvious1y, the o1d camp didn't have a second story. MR. BULGER-No. It didn't. MR. TURNER-What's above the first f1oor, then? MR. BULGER-Above the first f100r is a 10ft and another bedroom. The o1d camp had two bedrooms. MR. TURNER-This bedroom's downstairs? MR. BULGER-Yes. MR. TURNER-And then the other one's up above it? MR. BULGER-The other one's right up above it. MR. TURNER-Where's the set of stairs going up? MR. BULGER-They're going to run from between the s1iders straight back. MR. TURNER-How big is that bedroom? How 10ng is it this way? MR. BULGER-It's 36 back to here, right? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. BULGER-Can I check a fi1e? I might have something. MRS. EGGLESTON-Ted, see this says no a1ternatives have been provided. I mean, they haven't even 100ked at another. Shou1dn't they 1et their bui1der 100k at something, and come back? MR. BUlGER-E1even this way, by twe1ve. MR. TURNER-Okay. You were issued the bui1ding permit 1ast month? MR. BULGER-It seems 1ike it's been going 10nger than 1ast month. MRS. EGGLESTON-Ted, doesn't a Critica1 Environmenta1 Area need site p1an review? MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-How did this get by them? MR. TURNER-I don't know. It had to be before June. Do you know when it was issued? MR. BULGER-The bui1ding permit is up on the. MR. TURNER-When did you tear the camp down? MR. BUlGER-We11, what we did was we popped the roof. Again, when we started. MR. TURNER-You don't have to give us an exact date. Just te11 us which month. MRS. EGGLESTON-last month, the month before? MR. BULGER-Easter. MR. TURNER-Apri1. MR. BUlGER-Probab1y 1ate Apri1 or May, is when this started. MR. TURNER-Okay. So, then, Mrs. Crayford issued you the bui1ding permit? MR. BUlGER-I 1eft that up to the contractor. MR. TURNER-The contractor got the bui1ding permit? MR. BULGER-Yes, sir. 5 MR. TURNER-Okay. That's just one of those things that got away, see. You give him a permit to build a camp with a deck on it, block the deck out, and give him the permit to build the camp before getting a variance. So, you probably could have provided an alternative to this, if you'd have come here first. MR. BUlGER-I understand what you're saying, because the plans that were submitted showed the bathroom back here, and a door here, and the sliders there, and all they did was block that out. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, Ted, even with all of that, how did it not go to site plan review, in a Critical Environmental Area? MR. PARISI-Where is the building permit? MRS. EGGLESTON-Nobody has one. MR. TURNER-He's got his up on the camp. What he just told us is they gave him the permit for the camp, and they blocked this out. They had to come to us to get the variance. It should have come here first, before they even gave him the building permit. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, and it should have gone to site plan review. MR. TURNER-It should have gone to site plan review. That's a Critical Environmental Area. MRS. EGGLESTON-Then they would have helped him put this ramp where it belonged. MR. TURNER-Then you could have had an alternative to maybe redesign the camp to get the ramp in the back. MRS. EGGLESTON-How far along is it? MR. TURNER-The doors and windows are in. MR. BULGER-The bathroom is, basically, in. It's located, you know, and the toilet. Well, the rough plumbing's in, and that's been inspected, and the rough construction's been inspected, and it's pretty much enclosed, and the floor plan is designed. MR. TURNER-You could put a bigger door in now, because you've only got your rough construction in. MR. BUlGER-A bigger door here? MR. TURNER-Yes, for access. MR. PARISI-let me ask you a question. You said you have a building permit, and this was signed by the Zoning Administrator as well? MR. BULGER-That I don't know. MR. TURNER-It had to be. MR. PARISI-I would have to be. MR. TURNER-Yes. It would have to be. It couldn't go without it. MRS. EGGLESTON-They're not green though, are they? They're white, aren't they? He said he had a green. Aren't they white? MR. TURNER-I don't know what color they are now. MR. BULGER-It's a neon green. It's in the bathroom window. MR. TURNER-Yes. They change it. All right. Thank you. Does anyone else have any questions of the applicant? Not yet? Okay. I'll open the public hearing on this application. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COJIENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE 6 MRS. EGGLESTON-We have a couple. A phone call, a Jean and Mickey Choppa, no objections to the proposals, and a letter from Susan Popowski, RD1 Box 1734, lake George, "1 am faxing this letter this afternoon Re, the Bulger matter, because I had to leave Glen lake on Monday to return to my business in Vermont. I am unable to attend your meeting this evening, but I wish to reiterate to this Board my strong feelings regarding the future of Glen lake and the need for protecting this area. In the case before you tonight, a variance has been requested to go closer to the lake than the current nonconforming 28 feet. This camp is already 47 feet closer to the lake than the current 75 feet setback requirement. If an eight foot variance is permitted, they would be 55 feet closer to the lake than current regulations allow. This is a substantial and seemingly unnecessary variance. If the reason is for handicapped access, I would think it could have been planned for in the rear of the house and incorporated into such a major renovation. It appears that this whole house has been rebuilt and expanded upward with no site plan review required by the Zoning Administrator. This request for a variance should have been made before all the renovations were done so the complete plan could have been reviewed by the Planning Board. Now a nonconforming use has been expanded and another old septic system has been allowed to remain very close to Glen lake. I would like to remind the Board that we added to our camp as far back from the lake as was possible, 65 feet, and installed 5,000 gallons of septic holding tanks in order to abide by the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. In the interest of the preservation of Glen lake, I hope you would hold all residents to the same standards. I urge this Board to deny this request and uphold the current Zoning Regulations and reaffirm the reasons for these regulations." MR. TURNER-You know what I'd like to see you do, since it's just all rough construction, I'd like you to go back there and reevaluate what you've got and see what you can do to provide an alternative. I'd ask you to table your application and go back and talk to your builder and see what you can do as an alternative to what you've got, and then we'll put you on the agenda for next month, and you'll come back and tell us what you can do. Bring in a sketch. What's the septic system on the property? MR. BUlGER-I have no idea. MR. TURNER-I think you ought to locate that. You have to have it pumped out once in a while, obviously. How long have you owned the camp? MR. BULGER-It's been in our family 60 years. MR. TURNER-Somebody ought to know where it is. MR. BUlGER-I know where it is. I'm not sure what it is. MR. TURNER-Well, it's probably the old typical homemade one, or whatever. ever updated it? It could be. Have you MR. BULGER-No. So, ask the question of the family, as to what they recall the septic system being. MR. TURNER-Where it is, where it's located, what it is, what you can do to maybe modify what you've got to provide what you want to do with the house, to eliminate maybe going, necessarily, closer to the lake. MR. BULGER-Is the concern the side yard, or the? MR. TURNER-Both, both of them, in a sense, but obviously you've got to have access to the house, and the door's on the side. So, I think we've got to give you some relief there. You're stuck with a small lot, but what I'm saying is, you haven't provided any alternative. You just went ahead and built it and never asked anybody anything, and it shouldn't have gotten that far. It's not your fault. You should have come here first. MR. BULGER-So, table it for next month. MR. TURNER-Next month, yes. MR. BULGER-And if there aren't any alternatives, then what we'll have to do is figure out how to create a ramp to that side door. MR. TURNER-Yes. I think so. We're not going to approve it, if you agree to table it. We'll wait until you come back, and then we'll hear what you have to say. MR. BULGER-Yes. We can go back and talk to the builder and see what he suggests. When would be the date of the next meeting? MR. TURNER-We'd put you on the first meeting, which would be the third Wednesday of the month. MR. BULGER-That's what we'll have to do. MR. TURNER-Do you agree to table? 7 MR. BULGER-Yes. MR. TURNER-A11 right. flJTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 72-1992 GERALD AND WANOA BUlGER, Introduced by Joyce Egg1eston who moved for its adoption, seconded by Fred Carvin: To a110w the appHcant to obtain other a1ternatives to the request to bui1d a deck and ramp, and a1so to come back with more information on the 10cation of the septic system and what type of septic system. Du1y adopted this 22nd day of Ju1y, 1992, by the f0110wing vote: AYES: Mrs. Egg1eston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pa1ing MR. TURNER-I' 11 1eave the pubHc hearing open on that appHcation, in case anybody e1se has a comment. (8:15 p.m.) USE VARIANCE NO. 73-1992 TYPE: UNLISTED SFR-lA STANLEY A. JUCICETT OWNER: STANLEY A. & BEVERLY D. JUCICETT 369 RIDGE ROAD TO MODIFY EXISTING VARIANCE HUllER 409, GRANTED JULY 1975 FOR REAL-ESTATE AND INSURANCE OFFICE TO ALLOW FOR PROFESSIONAL OFFICE AS DEFINED IN (JIEENSBURY ZONING ORDINANCE. (WARREN coum PLANNING) TAX Ml\P NO. 109-1-6 LOT SIZE: 180 R. BY 200 R. SECTION 179-20 STANLEY JUCKETT, PRESENT (8:15 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior P1anner, Use Variance No. 73-1992, Stan1ey Juckett. Ju1y 8, 1992, Meeting Date: Ju1y 22, 1992 "The app1icant wishes to modify his existing variance #409 (res01ution attached) which was granted in 1975. He has had a rea1 estate and insurance office in the structure for a number of years. At this time he wishes to modify the variance so that any professiona1 office is a110wed on the site. The definition of professiona1 office and professiona1 occupation do not appear inconsistent with this request. There wou1d not appear to be any impacts because the site has been uti1ized for a specific professiona1 since 1975." Warren County returned "No County Impact". MR. TURNER-Wou1d you 1ike to add anything to your app1ication? MR. JUCKETT-We11, except that you've a1ready read that I was assured that passed on. I'm sti11 1icensed there as A1good Rea1ty, which I differ with the 1etter that was written there about me. I continued the operation 1ast summer, and 1ast winter was the first winter that I went south that I didn't have someone in the office, but my phone was covered because I have a sa1esman sti1l, that licenses with me. last summer, I took my rea1 estate sign down because I put it up for sa1e, and everybody got confused with my For Sa1e sign by A1good Rea1ty and my A1good Rea1ty sign. So, I took the rea1 estate sign down. I've had no success trying to se11 it as a home itseH. last winter, just before I got ready to go to F1orida, I 1et some friends chi1dren in for the summer, which, they'11 be out within two weeks, and that was a short renta1, just to keep the heat and things going whi1e I was in F10rida, because I did purchase another house in the City of G1ens Fa11s, and before I purchased that I did come up and speak to lee York and Dave Hatin, and I have two professiona1s now under the bui1ding, where the Ordinance says professiona1, that are interested, but Pat Crayford said that I shou1d re-app1y again under this basis, for the professiona1. I've been there since 1974 on the first variance, and on the second variance, which she said passes on with the sa1e of property. I was a1so to1d that, and then I came back this year and I got a11 this static, which I have contacted you as you know, at one point. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-And, I don't know what more I can add. MR. TURNER-We11, your business was for your duration on1y. MR. JUCKETT-That was on the first variance. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-But the second variance I was to1d that they passed on now with the changes in Queensbury, you know, a year 1ater, and I'm quoting the peop1e who assured me, and now I'm getting a11 this feedback. 8 MR. TURNER-An they did with the second one, Mr. Juckett, was to, they gave you one year conditional and then they brought you back and they approved the previous variance. So, those stipulations go with the variance. Well, at the time when I bought, Mrs. Chartier was living next door and had a rental behind it. She subsequently sold where she lived and it became a beauty shop and the rental out back. So, I'm in between a beauty shop and Conklin's Plumbing, and out in back, I was bordered by Ear1town Town, which was being set up, as you know, and then as you walk towards Quaker, and as I say, I've had no calls whatsoever, as far as the house, and my only prospect is to sell to a professional somebody that wants to take it over. If I'd come up once like just this year, but two years in a row I've double checked, and each time your Board tens me it's fine. No problem. They reviewed this right in front of me, and then this year, when I come to say I've got a prospect, this is what happen to me, just once. MR. TURNER-Yes, but you've got to go back. That was single family residential one acre zoning. MR. JUCKETT-But things have changed. MR. TURNER-I know, but the zone hasn't changed. MR. JUCKETT-No. The zone hasn't, but you've made variances on both sides. MR. TURNER-I understand that, but the first time around, that's why you had to come here to get the variance. MR. JUCKETT-Right. MR. TURNER-And what I told you was, if you changed the use, and that's what it said in the Ordinance, then you've got to have another variance. MR. JUCKETT-See, if I'd realized, I would have applied early when I first got back, the first of May, and I didn't even realize it until I got the customer. MR. TURNER-All right. What's going to go in there, then, a professional office? MR. JUCKETT-A professional office. I've got two prospects at this point, for professionals. MR. SICARD-Are they taking the entire building, Stan? MR. JUCKETT-One would possibly live there and the other would might possibly just have the office. MR. TURNER-So, it's going to be multi use, then? You're going to live there? MR. JUCKETT-Wen, originany, the variance was for, strictly, office. Then I added on and I lived there myself, and had the office, too, but it was approved, originally, as strictly an office. MR. TURNER-Yes, real estate and insurance office. MR. JUCKETT-Right. MR. CARVIN-Approximately how long have you had it for sale as a residence? MR. JUCKETT-I started last summer and I took the sign down for the winter, when I go to Florida, that's when I let these kids in for the winter. They're moving out within two weeks. They've bought a house, and I put the sign up this summer. I've had nobody as far as residential has even contacted me. MR. CARVIN-When you say last summer, was it up for two months, four months, approximately? MR. JUCKETT-No. I started in the spring, right through to the fan, right up until October, and then a week before I got ready to go south, I let these kids in. MR. CARVIN-Okay, but this was advertised as a residence, and not as a commercial venture? MR. JUCKETT-I've advertised it as a residence and office both. MR. CARVIN-Okay. MRS. EGGLESTON-Did you have a broker? MR. JUCKETT-I ~ the broker. MRS. EGGLESTON-You did it yourself, and no responses, really? 9 - MR. JUCKETT-None whatsoever. I take it back. I had one call this week, from another broker, and when I explained what the situation was, they just read it out of a brochure, and they said, no, they didn't want to be between a business, commercial on one side. MR. TURNER-I'll now open the pub1ic hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED DOROTHY CHARTIER MRS. CHARTIER-I'm speaking for the KnobJauch residents. My name is Dorothy Chartier. I'm speaking for the Knob1auchs who Hve across Ridge Road from Stan. Their property is very big. It runs from the north of my property all the way through the Hair Design property and Earltown Town. It also goes back to the road behind. I'm speaking for Mrs. Johnson, Meadowview Road, one other person who Hves a10ng, is in sympathy with our thinking, but it says it doesn't do any good to comp1ain. Those of us for whom I am speaking are opposed. Now, I think, I'm aware of what Stan paid for the property. 1'm aware of what he's asking for. I'm a1so aware of the rea1 estate business right now. Nothing much is moving. In certain areas, at the bottom and top are moving somewhat. So, it's not unusua1 if he's not able to seH it, but a1so the price might have something to do with it, because it is a small sing1e fami1y residence. Thank you. MR. TURNER-What's the composition of the house, Stan? MR. JUCKETT-OriginaHy, it was a two bedroom. When I added on, where the garage was attached became, I bui1t on and I put two more rooms on. It's now, I've tried to se1l it as a three bedroom house with two fuH baths, and there stiH are no takers, and I added a two car garage on the side, 180 foot frontage by 200 and I don't know if these people signed papers that she's representing them or what tonight, but I mean, to me, I've been there since 1974, after the first year's variance. Here I've been there 18 years, and I've never had a comp1aint, even from her, or anybody in the neighborhood, and now when I come again, I'm getting, the same names come up again, that did back 17, 18 years ago. MR. SICARD-Stan, cou1d you teH me if that was advertised as a residence, or did you advertise it to se1l as a professional operation? MR. JUCKETT-I've done them both, yes. I've advertised it as a residence and professiona1, but I've advertised professiona1 on the basis of lee York and Dave Hatin. Dave Hatin was down there 1ast summer. I had a party that wanted to open, Hke, a pet store, which that didn't come under. He came there to check it out at the time, to see what he thought, and I did away with them. I washed it based on, when he came for the inspection, but then again he reassured me that the variance passes on, whether it's real estate insurance, because under your Code there, professiona1 inc1udes real estate insurance, beauty shops, attorneys, accountants, and so forth, and that's a1l I've asked for on this. MR. TURNER-Yes, but you're going right back and you're saying that we granted you. We didn't grant you that. We only granted you a rea1 estate office and insurance office, period, but that was under sing1e fami1y residential zone. MR. JUCKETT-Yes, but why did your peop1e, you pay your peop1e to teH me these things, and they teH me, and now I come back and it's in dispute. MR. TURNER-You can't 1eap frog from one to the other, because that's sing1e family residential. That's why you're here, and that's why you came the first time. MR. JUCKETT-The first time they t01d me, no problem, go ahead and seH. This is my point. Ask lee York. Ask Dave Hatin. They work for the Town of Queensbury. This is the thing that I don't understand. I've exp1ained that to you before. Have you ta1ked to lee York or Dave Hatin? MR. TURNER-I haven't ta1ked to Dave Hatin, no. MR. JUCKETT-We1l, lee York, she knows. MR. TURNER-Yes, but I'm saying to you that that was sing1e family residentia1. MR. JUCKETT-Right. MR. TURNER-A11 right, and you came for a variance. We gave you a use variance for a rea1 estate office, insurance office, period. Nothing else. MR. JUCKETT-Right. MR. TURNER-You can't 1eap frog something else in there, because that's sti11 sing1e fami1y residentia1. You're changing the use. We didn't change the zone at a11. The zone didn't change. 10 MR. PARISI-Excuse me. I'd like to say something on behalf of Dave Hatin and lee York, and that is, that normally variances are not stipulated the way this one is. In order to determine, on their part, what you could or couldn't not do, upon selling it, it was necessary for one of them to research the minutes, which is not a normal procedure when someone asks a typical question. This particular variance has a stipulation that says very specifically that the variance shall be for the duration of Mr. Juckett's business only, which predated both Mr. Hatin and Mrs. York, and I don't think there was any way for them to answer that question, or be held to it, without researching the minutes. I just wanted to clarify that point. MR. TURNER-Okay. Thank you. MR. JUCKETT-I think my neighbors are here on the other side, if they have anything to say for or against, I'd like to hear about it. RICHARD CUNNINGHAM MR. CUNNINGHAM-My name is Richard Cunningham, and my wife and I own the Hair Designs, next door to Stan, and as it stands, and as the building sits and the property sits, at this point, we"d have no objection to selling it as a commercial property. MR. TURNER-Okay. Thank you. Stan, let me ask you a question. When you advertised it for residential, what was the asking price for residential? What's the asking price for commercial? MR. JUCKETT-The price doesn't make a bit of difference either way. I've never had a bonafide offer. I can ask the price the same as you put your house on the market today, and I have never even had an offer. I'm willing to listen to offers, but I've got to get an offer before I can even do anything. I had it appraised. MR. TURNER-You've got an offer now. What is it? MR. JUCKETT-I haven't got the offer until I've got the variance. They will not make any offers until they're sure I'm considered professional, which will cover accountant, beauty shop, attorney, or whatever. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. JUCKETT-And this was on the recommendation of Pat Crayford that I do it this way, and go for the professional, so it covers any items, which, I can't think of the word that you had there, but you had one thing that covers professional, and you list it, under mY application, I think I read that, right. MR. TURNER-The definition you want? MR. JUCKETT-The definition. MR. TURNER-Yes, it lists the professional occupations, not limited to, but. MR. JUCKETT-Right, based on the definition in the Town Ordinance. MR. TURNER-Yes. BONNIE GLENDENING MRS. GLENDENING-I'm Bonnie Glendening, and we live up the street from Algood Realty, and I really don't know, honestly, if I'm for or against this. What I guess I'm looking at is we live in one of the oldest homes in Queensbury. We want to preserve them as a residence. However, we also run a business in residential area. So, I understand what side of the fence you sit on. My greatest concern is I've seen homes that are not maintained as well as some professional offices, and we've had to deal with constraints with our neighbors, and I'm sure that you could provide certain guidelines, if this was taken as a professional office. MR. TURNER-Does anyone else wish to be heard? Okay, the public hearing's closed. MR. JUCKETT-I guess I could say one more thing. Of the two prospects, I can't reveal it at this point, but it certainly would be well kept, either one. If I go any longer, I'm going to lose them both anyway, and if I go another month, I'm going to have to rent it, and I'm renting on one side, because I still have the office section that I can keep in operation. As I say, I've just renewed my license for two more years, but I would like to retire. lets put it that way. I'm semi retired. I would like to retire completely, but I'm just out of this hardship, because as I say, I have my place in Florida, and I bought one here in the City, based on what they told me, and it's a hardship any way you look at it, as far as I'm concerned. MR. SICARD-Could you rent both sides, Stan, at this point, as a residence? 11 MR. JUCKETT-I would rather, if I can't sell it, I would rent it just to, like, I rented this winter, I didn't even break even, Charlie. I'm hooked up to the new water system, which goes in my front up through, I think, Mrs. Chartier's house, and with the new water system and the overhead I have there, it's just, with the tax increase and the water, I can't make out on a rental. MR. SICARD-I don't think you could rent it anyway. It would come under a multiple dwelling. MR. JUCKETT-It would still come under it, unless I got someone to take over Algood Realty and let them run the business, and rent it like that, which I could do that, but I don't want to. I'd prefer to get the variance and hopefully sell it, because as she said, if I have a rental, I'm going to be in Florida. I'm not going to know whether the people are keeping it up or not. MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further discussion? MR. CARVIN-My feeling on this is that I really can't support granting a blanket variance. I think that the previous Board has given you a variance back in '74. The variance Ordinance, here, is very clear. It says, this character, in other words, for the single family residence zones, this character will be strictly reinforced and preserved throughout single family residence zones. I think that if the property is sold as a residential, and some folks come before the Board for a variance, then I think it would have to be taken at that point, on it's merits. MR. JUCKETT-Can I say this? Pat Crayford is the one that suggested I come up for this. MR. CARVIN-Yes. I'm not saying that she was wrong in saying that you should come. I just am saying that I, sitting here looking at the definition of what. MR. JUCKETT-Could I specify a couple, just one or two? If I go into another month, I'm going to lose this, and the thing is, that means getting on and re-applying allover again. MRS. EGGLESTON-May I say, Fred, mY thoughts? The use variance says he has to show certain criteria in order to get what he wants, right, and one of them is that it's exceptional or extraordinary circumstances applying to the property, which I think they do. I mean, he's got commercial on one side, commercial on the other side. It already is a business. In mY mind, I can't think of who would want to live in a residence between two businesses. That's Number One, and Number Two, to preserve the property rights of the applicant who is maybe at a point in his life, he wants to move on, and I think it's going to be hard to sell as a residence. He has demonstrated that he's had it up for sale without any nibbles. I mean I know this is a bad time, but I still come back to who would want to live between two businesses, and the fourth is it wouldn't be materially detrimental to the neighborhood. I mean, it already is a business, an office business, and the house is small. I don't know that he could do that much with. MR. CARVIN-Well, how active are you in the business at this point? MR. JUCKETT-May I say this. I showed it to several doctors. forgot to mention that, last SUßDller, but when I say professional, doctors would have qualified it as, based on what I was told then, but the house is not big enough for a doctor. In other words, the doctors tOday, they have to have big hallways for wheelchairs. So, when we say professional, it's going to be a limited professional. It can't be, because the rooms aren't that big. I had two look at it. MRS. EGGlESTON-I know at .!!!l. place of employment we have several rental places around our property, and they're residentials, and I'm going to tell you, they're not kept well. It's hard to get tenants that keep things well. That's another point, if you just rented it, and the place next door is kept very nice, the Hair place is kept exceptionally well. MR. CARVIN-Again, I can't speak for what the Board did in '74, but I can only surmise that their intent was to try to maintain a residential character by putting the stipulation in that the variance ended with his business. MR. JUCKETT-Well. I did that at the time, because Mrs. Chartier lived next door. She was living where Hair Designs is at this time, and at the time, I didn't go to any attorney. I just wanted to get started, have an office, and there were other things involved at the time, I'd rather not go into, personal matters, and I took the easiest path, and that's what I said I'd do anything, because I needed to be there and I had to live there at the time. MR. TURNER-You bought that as a single family residential home. MR. JUCKETT-Right. MR. TURNER-You moved into it? MR. JUCKETT-I moved in about eight, ten years ago when I built the addition on. As I told you, I expanded. 12 MR. TURNER-Yes. So then, being in the rea1 estate business, you came to us and asked us for a variance to se11 rea1 estate and insurance there, and we gave it to you. MR. JUCKETT-Origina11y, yes. I was a broker when I app1ied. I was renting a p1ace at the time. MR. CARVIN-Again, I'd Hke to come back as, I 100k at it as a creeping commerciaHsm. I mean, and I'm using a hypothetica1. lets say that two doors down the Hne, somebody comes in and buys the residentia1, somebody comes in and buys a house two or three 10ts up, and they come in and they want to put a professiona1 doctors office in, and they continue to use the excuse, we11, there's three other businesses in a sing1e famHy residence, why can't I put a professiona1 buHding in? I'm not against professiona1s, but this thing just tends to feed on itseH, and I stH1 come back to the sing1e famHy resident zone says that the character shou1d be strict1y reinforced. MRS. EGGLESTON-But, Fred, who's going to want to 1ive between two businesses? Nothing's going to change Hair Designs. I mean, that's there. It's going to stay there. That's not going to go back residentia1. MR. TURNER-My prob1em is, and I agree with Fred. He hasn't, it's a soft rea1 estate market out there, and it's rea1 soft. I don't think, even though he's tried to sen it residentia1 from 1ast year, many houses haven't so1d in the 1ast two or three years, depending on the price. MR. JUCKETT-I've offered terms, the wh01e mortgage, not even going through the bank, and the point on this hypothetica1 that was mentioned, if someone bought, Ear1town Town owns a11 the 1and after you go by, 1ets see, Hair Designs and Mrs. Chartier, then an the 1and up through and behind me be10ngs to Ear1town Town, which the Town of Queensbury approved, tentative1y, before Mr. laakso died. It was going to be a projected goH course and condominiums, because I attended many of those meetings, and now it's in a Chapter 11, I beHeve, bankruptcy at this time, but everything that you mentioned, any 10ts that cou1d be on that side, it was a11, I mean, I was going to be hanged tough by the go1f course and the condominiums too, and Mrs. Chartier a1so wou1d have been, because they were approved. MR. SICARD-You mentioned, once, the two peop1e that are on both sides of you being commercia1? MR. JUCKETT-I don't know if there's a commercia1 variance or what. I know it's cornmercia1 as far as Conk1in's P1umbing goes. MR. TURNER-Yes, that was a variance. the Hair Designs, I be1ieve. MR. SICARD-There's a1ways the possibHity of app1ying to the Town Board for a change of zoning, at that particu1ar 10t, in cases if you fee1 that that shou1d a11 be cornmercia1, and you seem to. MR. JUCKETT-I don't think that wou1d be fair to the neighbors, Char1ie, because if I app1ied for Highway Cornmercia1, I be1ieve I can se11 it to a gas station or anything, right? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-I mean, I don't want to do that to the neighborhood. MR. SICARD-But if that was your thinking, bringing them up, that it was pretty much commercia1 in that area, on both sides. MR. JUCKETT-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-But as Mrs. G1endening mentioned, I do think, the coup1e that I have, if either one of them go, it definite1y wou1d be much better for the neighborhood than going for Highway Commercia1. MR. SICARD-It wou1d probab1y be the 1esser of two evi1s, but that wou1d be up to the Town Board. MR. TURNER-An right. lets move the appHcation. We cou1d ta1k about it an night, and I don't think we'd so1ve anything. Okay. A motion's in order to either approve or deny. MR. SICARD-I'm thinking maybe a Htt1e different than I did in 1974, but it's reany a predicament for the owner, but I sti11 fee1 it's a nice 100king house, and there's a possibi1ity it cou1d be so1d if the price was right. What the price is, that's his business. It's a good area. It's a nice area. Both sides of the road, as far up and down the road. I think we're coming in to more commercia1ism in a11 areas, inc1uding probab1y, someday, that area, as things change, but we have to 100k at it today, and a1so tomorrow. MR. TURNER-I think you've got to protect the integrity of the neighborhood that's up there, beyond Conk1in, and what's across the road, and you're going to have creeping commercia1ism right up the road if you start giving everyone a variance for everything that goes a1ong. MR. SICARD-We said that back then, too. MR. TURNER-Yes. 13 MR. SICARD-That's why we probab1y put on it that it was going to change when he 1eft, because that's the way we fe1t. MR. JUCKETT-But it changed since the time I moved in there. ÞlJTIOff TO DENY USE VARIANCE NO. 73-1992 STANLEY A. JUCkETT, Introduced by Joyce Egg1eston who moved for its adoption, seconded by Fred Carvin: AppHcant has not demonstrated with facts and figures that the property in question cannot yie1d a reasonab1e financia1 return if used for any of the permissib1e uses within the zone. There doesn't appear to be an exceptiona1 or extraordinary circumstance app1ying to this property and not app1ying to other properties in the neighborhood. I do be1ieve the variance wou1d be detrimenta1 to the purposes of the Ordinance and to other residentia1 properties within the neighborhood. The Short EAF shows no negative impact. Du1y adopted this 22nd day of Ju1y, 1992, by the f0110wing vote: AYES: Mr. Sicard. Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Egg1eston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pa1ing MR. JUCKETT-May I ask a question? I can continue as a rea1 estate myse1f? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-And rent it as a rea1 estate. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. JUCKETT-In other words, I can pass it on as a rea1 estate office, if someone wants to take over mY agency? MR. TURNER-The variance was granted for a rea1 estate insurance office. MR. CARVIN-Yes, but I think it was phrased as A1good, Ted. MR. TURNER-No. Not if you terminate it, no. Not if you terminate your business. MR. JUCKETT-If I keep it in my business. MR. TURNER-Yes, but there was a condition in the Ordinance. If ~ keep it as your business, okay. MR. JUCKETT-That's what I said, but I have a right to incorporate. MR. TURNER-Yes, sir. MR. JUCKETT-Okay. Thank you. (8:52 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 74-1992 TYPE: UNLISTED 1R-5 TOOAY'S MODERN HatES JOE NUDI, VICE PRES. OWNER: SAtE AS ABOVE END OF VERMONT AVENUE TO CONSTRUCT A SINGLE FAMILY HatE ON A LOT NOT FRONTING ON A PUBLIC STREET. (WARREN COUNTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 128-9-10 LOT SIZE: 10,100 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-70 JOE NUDI, PRESENT (8:52 p.m.) MRS. EGGLESTON-Warren County returned, approved, "Concur with 10ca1 conditions." STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior P1anner, Area Variance No. 74-1992, Today's Modern Homes - Joe Nudi, Ju1y 8, 1992, Meeting Date: Ju1y 22, 1992 "The appHcant wishes to construct a sing1e fami1y residentia1 home on a 10t off of Vermont Avenue. The roadway ends as a Town road prior to the 10t in question. The zoning is MR-5 and because of the 1ack of access the piece has been virtuaHy 1and1ocked. The Board shou1d be aware that the appHcant purchased the property on 5/10/89 and spoke to the Highway Superintendent at that time about the road situation. This appHcation was reviewed with regard to the criteria for area variances: I. Describe the practica1 difficuHy which does not a110w p1acement of a structure which meets the zoning requirements. The parce1 is 1and10cked and because Vermont Avenue ends and there is no way the app1icant can have 40 feet on a town road per Section 179-70. The property was purchased with the apparent know1edge of this prob1em. 2. Is this the minimum variance 14 ~ -' necessary to a11eviate the specific practica1 difficu1ty or is there any other options avai1ab1e which wou1d require no variance? The other option is for the app1icant to construct a private road to Town specifications. The rea1ity is that the cost of this option is prohibitive. 3. Wou1d this variance be detrimenta1 to the other properties in the district or neighborhood or confHct with the objectives of any p1an or poHcy of the Town? No.4. What are the effects of the variance on pubHc faci1ities and services? 5. Is this request the minimum re1ief necessary to a11eviate the specified practica1 difficu1ty? The Board has to decide if there is a practica1 difficu1ty created by the unfairness of the ordinance to a unique situation. II MR. NUDI-Just a sma11 matter regarding knowing that it was a paper street. I did know that it was a paper street. I was not ab1e to ta1k to Mr. Nay10r to find out a11 the ramifications of that before the property was purchased. I actua11y didn't ta1k to him unti1 October of that year, but I did know that the Town of Queensbury had approved paper streets before, but there was a technica1ity that I was unaware of. Those were streets that were approved back in 1963, I be1ieve, is when it was. The Queensbury accepted an the streets in the Town. Unfortunate1y, this parcel, or sman section, 230 feet of Vermont Avenue, was not approved or accepted, I shou1d say, by the Town. It is shown on a11 the tax maps for the Town, for the County. The subdivision was vowed for in Warren County back in 1927 by Core1ess Rea1ty of St. A1banes, Vermont. The 1ast time that 1 have been ab1e to find their name in any of the paperwork was 1935. I ca11ed the State of Vermont. They are no 10nger incorporated there, and I mentioned that it was .!!!l. impression, unti1 ta1king to Mr. Nay10r, that being a paper street, the Town wou1d approve it, and I went back to, I be1ieve it was Ma110ry Road, a road that runs para11e1 to Veterans Avenue, that is c10ser to the City by one or two b10cks. MR. TURNER-Ma11ory? MR. NUDI-I be1ieve that's what it is, and they approved that as a paper street, but the difference was, the Town did accept that when they went around and measured. I was unaware that there was that technica1 difficu1ty unti1 I did ta1k to Mr. Nay10r. I've written to Mr. Borgos when he was Supervisor, to Mr. Kurosaka, ta1ked with Mr. Dusek. I've written him 1etters. I've written to Warren County. I've written to New York State. Nobody wants to do anything with the property, except say that I do have a 1ega1 right to use it, as owning property on both sides of that street, I do have the right to use that to access that parce1, which wou1d otherwise be 1and10cked. MR. SICARD-Wou1d you exp1ain that to me? What's the right, from who? MR. NUDI-It's been decided in New York State, in case of 1aw, that peop1e in a subdivision own ha1f of the right-of-way of the road in a subdivision, and as I say, I have a 1etter from the Attorney Genera1 stating this. He hasn't given me any specific case, but it has been. MR. TURNER-Do you have that 1etter? MR. NUDI-Sure. There's a 1etter from Warren County which states they have no interest at a11 in it, but there's the one from the Attorney Genera1. I don't know if Mr. Parisi is aware of any of these situations or not, regarding paper streets and 1and10cking property. MR. PARISI-Genera11y in New York State the courts have a110wed peop1e that have 1and10cked subdivisions access one way or another. MR. NUDI-I wou1d a1so add that when I did visit with lee York, and just prior to the fina1 purchase of the property, I'd signed an intent, and met with her and Dave Hatin in their office. I origina11y went in there thinking that I cou1d put six 10ts of 5,000 square feet each for a mobi1e home, and they to1d me then that I wou1d not be ab1e to do that, that I actuany on1y had three parce1s of property there, one being the 1and10cked, another out on Centra1 and another out on Centra1. MRS. EGGlESTON-Cou1d you not give a right-of-way across Centra1 to that? MR. NUDI-No. It wou1d make the other 10t too sma11. If I were to give a right-of-way across my one parcel, I wou1d have a nonconforming 10t because of the 40 feet I wou1d have to take away, and as I say, it wou1d seem sense1ess to do that when the road is there. MR. SICARD-I'm trying to understand what Pau1 Nay10r's jurisdiction is, concerning this type of situation. MR. TURNER-I don't think he's got any right there. MR. NUDI-I have a 1etter from Mr. Dusek, and Pau1 Nay10r wants nothing at a11 to do with it. MR. SICARD-That's what I thought, but I wanted ~ to say it. MR. NUDI-Yes. If I put a road in, the Town wou1d require 150 foot cu1-de-sac at the end of it, which wou1d give me. MR. TURNER-He doesn't 1ike cu1-de-sacs. 15 r' r MR. NUDI-Yes. It wou1d just make the 1and use1ess then. MR. TURNER-Right. Okay. I'll open the pub1ic hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED ANDREW CORDIAlE MR. CORDIAlE-My name is Andrew Cordia1e. I'm at 305 Mass Avenue. I I ve got a 10t of questions. I cou1dn't get a ho1d of Mr. Hatin. One of my questions is, there's a1ready an existing trai1er there, and I beHeve it's 90 feet in. I'm not sure, and if this didn't need a variance, why does the new one need a variance right across from. MR. NUDI-You've got the wrong parceL okay. The parce1 that we're ta1king about is on the 1eft side of Vermont Avenue. The parce1 that that mobi1e home is on is on the right side, and it does goa11 the way to Centra1 Avenue. MR. TURNER-Do you want to take a 10ok? Vermont in. the three 10ts are on that side. That's mobi1e homes over here, on this side. MR. CORDIAlE-And this is Centra1 Avenue, right across? MR. TURNER-Yes. I wou1d say so. MR. CORDIAlE-So, essentia11y, this is a11 broken up, but there's no road here. MR. TURNER-Yes. Right. MR. CORDIAlE-Okay. Who's going to take care of the dirt road that's existing now? MR. NUDI-That wi11 be my jOb to take care of that going into that site. MR. CORDIAlE-And you own a11 17 acres up there? MR. NUDI-There's not 17. Don't confuse this with the parce1 on Corinth Road. This is on1y three sma11 10ts there. If you 100k at that map, that'11 show. MR. CORDIAlE-Okay, and I was figuring that if this variance was given, then a11 the 1and that he owns right there wou1d be a precedent, and then he cou1d have a variance for any of them, because he owns most of the property there. MR. NUDI-No. I don't own the part out on Corinth Road. I'm on1y 100king access to 101 foot by 100 10t, and that's as far back as I own. I have no reason to go any farther. MRS. EGGLESTON-What is the width of the paper street? MR. NUDI-Fifty foot. This is the on1y parce1 1'm ta1king about. This has access to Centra1 and this has access to Centra1. So, this is the on1y parce1. MR. CORDIAlE-And this is where the trai1er is now? MR. NUDI-Yes. That's correct. MR. CORDIAlE-Okay. So, this is yours? This, this, and this? MR. NUDI-No, no. don't own this either. MR. CORDIAlE-Not that? MR. NUDI-No, just one, two, three. MRS. EGGLESTON-This isn't an extension of Vermont Avenue? MR. NUDI-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-This is what you're referring to as the paper street? MR. NUDI-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, actua11y the trai1er that's here uses this paper street as we11? 16 MR. NUDI-Yes. I do have a driveway in there because I would Hke that to be aH lawn, and I've got permits for, as a matter of fact, they're still up on the tree. MR. CORDIAlE-I just wondered what the address is? MR. TURNER-Vermont Avenue. That's what he's got on the application. MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Nudi, what is on Number Nine, where it was graded off, and what is up in here? MR. NUDI-Nothing is here yet. MRS. EGGLESTON-Who owns that? MR. NUDI-I own that. I do have a septic system in there now, going this way, with a tank here. A mobile home will go here, at one point. MRS. EGGLESTON-This is 100 feet wide? MR. NUDI-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-And you're saying you couldn't give a right-of-way. MR. NUDI-If you take 40 feet off of that, you would end up with 700, 7,000. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, a 60 foot width. MR. NUDI-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Sixty by one hundred and twenty, which reaHy is a buildable lot. It's reaHy not the best, but you could conceivably do that, right? MR. TURNER-I'd rather give him the paper street than let him have the lots. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I just was wondering about Charlie's apprehensions about. MR. TURNER-Yes. I know. MR. SICARD-Mr. Nudi, does the water Hne run down through that situation right there, where you're going to put the structure? MR. NUDI-No. There is a water line there now. MR. SICARD-There.i! a water 1 ine there now? MR. NUDI-Yes. MR. SICARD-Was that put in by the Town? MR. NUDI-No. I put it in, because I did have a permit for that lot. MR. SICARD- Is it on a Town Water Map? MR. NUDI-Yes. MR. SICARD-You see, that's on no man's land, basically. is what you're saying. MR. NUDI-Yes. MR. SICARD-1'm just assuming that if that street is continued down as far as they can go, sometime, that they'll probably want to put a larger water line in there to accommodate anything. MR. NUDI-And we'll be glad to tap into that. That does happen, but I don't foresee. MR. SICARD-It seems to me that nobody has any jurisdiction of anything, as far as that's street's concerned. MR. NUDI-Unfortunately, I had asked the Town to condemn it and leave it to me. MR. SICARD-Assuming they put the sewer system down through there, who's going to pay for the sewer system? You don't own it. MR. NUDI-That will be for the lot owner. Yes. 17 MR. SICARD-The extension. You can easily say that. I don't own it. I'm trying to alleviate any difficulties that may arise later on, when the Town decides to do this, or who owns that road. I'm hearing this. It isn't kept up. You've got a lot of people that's moved in around there, keeping their trailers looking good and I'm familiar with the area. MR. TURNER-We just did one on Central Avenue, remember? MR. SICARD-I know that. There's one going in on Central Avenue right now, but I'm trying to alleviate any problems that might arise later on, where you might say, well, I don't own it, that they want to put in maybe sewers, maybe not. I don't know, but it's really a no man's land, and to grant you permission to use it. It's a difficult situation. It's a difficult decision, because we become, actually the owners that's giving it to you. MR. NUDI-No, because you don't have that right. MR. SICARD-That's right. Well, you just said it, what I'm thinking. We have no right. MR. NUDI-All you can do is give me the variance to not have 40 feet on a Town road. MR. SICARD-Well, I feel that we should have something from the road commissioner in writing, saying that he agrees with this kind of thing, because then we can pass the ball to him. MR. NUDI-I have a letter from Mr. Dusek. Yes. MR. TURNER-Do you have any further comments? MR. CORDIAlE-Yes. I just wanted to know if all the homes were going to be new construction? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. NUDI-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Stick built or modular home? MR. NUDI-Manufactured being mobile home, as you know. MR. TURNER-Okay. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Nudi has entered, for the record, a letter from the State of New York Department of law. "This letter is in response to your inquiry of January 24th, 1991 regarding a paper street located between lots which you own in Queensbury. Please be advised that the Attorney General is unable to issue an opinion to you regarding this matter. likewise, I know of no case in which this office has written the kind of ruling which you request. I would suggest that you contact your lawyer and discuss this issue with him or her. There is case law in this state which stands for the rule that, absent a prior conveyance, a lot owner who obtains title to lots on a filed map also obtains title to the road upon which the lot fronts, to the center line of such road. Since you claim to own lots on both sides of the road, it would appear that you could claim ownership to the entire road as it exists between your lots. If your title to the building lots is good, and there are no prior conveyances of the road bed, or reservations of the road bed by the original grantor, your title may be insurable by a title insurance company. This letter does not constitute an opinion. formal or informal, of the Attorney General and is provided to you in order to provide information to you to continue your investigation of this matter. Henry Decatus, Assistant Attorney General" Did you try to get title insurance? Did you go by his suggestion or try? MR. NUDI-No, because an attorney wants $5,000 to handle this. MRS. EGGLESTON-Also, in reviewing the Short Environmental Assessment Form, it discloses no negative impact. MR. TURNER-Okay. A motion's in order. flJTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 74-1992 TODAY'S JlJDERN HatES, Introduced by Charles Sicard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggleston: The variance doesn't appear to be detrimental to any other properties in the district or neighborhood or conflict with the objectives of any plan or policy of the Town at this time. I would say that the owner of the structure would have to be responsible for snow removal and maintenance of the road at 18 the time of construction, and there doesn't appear to be any effects of the variance on any pub1ic utilities or facilities or services in the area. This grants relief from Section 179-70, the practical difficulty being the parcel is Iand Iocked. The Short EAF shows no negative impact. Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1992, by the following vote: MR. SICARD-How much road are you going to have to construct, Joe? MR. NUDI-About 125 feet. MR. SICARD-And you will construct that to Town Road specifications? MR. NUDI-No. It's going to be to a driveway specification. MR. SICARD-To a driveway. MR. NUDI-I've alreadY put in there about 10 inches or so of rubble and we will. MR. SICARD-Okay, but it will be a driveway? MR. NUDI-Yes. MR. SICARD-Not a public driveway? MR. NUDI-No. That person is responsible for the driveway all the way to their home. MR. SICARD-Okay. MR. NUDI-Just as anybody else on any other driveway out on Central Avenue. MR. TURNER-Okay. AYES: Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Paling (9:16 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 76-1992 NORBERT H. & VIOLET H. IARNEY OWNER: SAtE AS ABOVE NEAR INTERSECTION OF TROOT PAVILION AND PILOT KNOB ROADS TO USE 384 SQ. FT. COTTAGE BUILT IN 1987 FOR SEASONAL USE. ZONING RE~IRES 300 SQ. FT. FOR USE AS HUNTING FISHING CABIN. (WARREN COUNTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 153-1-5.6 LOT SIZE: 12,750 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-16D(I}(B} NORBERT AND VIOLET LARNEY, PRESENT (9:16 p.m.) MRS. EGGLESTON-Warren County approved, "Concur with local conditions." STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Area Variance No. 76-1992, July 14, 1992, Meeting Date: July 22, 1992 "The app1icant has an existing camp which was constructed over the maximum size of 300 sq. ft. a110wed by code. The cabin is 380 sq. ft. The zoning is WR-1A. The Iot is on a Right-of-Way off of Trout Pavi1ion Road. The structure does not appear to have been constructed with the benefit of a buHding permit. Since the cabin would appear to be the principal buHding the Board may wish to review Section 1789-70 to ascertain if a variance for 40 feet on a town road is also required. Also, the drawing submitted shows a 10 foot setback from the southern property boundary. The WR-1A zone requires a minimum of 20 feet on the side (Section 179-16). The Board may wish to consider if a side yard setback variance is aIso required. AHhough the cabin is in existence, it appears that the Iot is Iarge enough so that a conforming structure could have been built. This variance was reviewed with regard to the criteria for an area variance. I. Describe the practica1 difficuHy which does not a110w placement of a structure which meets the zoning requirements. The app1icant constructed the cabin in 1987. A building permit for an expansion to a shed was applied for in 1987. The dwelling unit that was buHt was nonconforming. It does not appear that that the regulations created the app1icant's practical difficuHy. 2. Is this the minimum variance necessary to a11eviate the specific practical difficulty or is there any other option available which would require no variance? The Board wi11 have to ascertain if the practical difficulty test has been met and then determine whether this request is minimum re1ief. 3. Wou1d this variance be detrimental to the other properties in the district or neighborhood or confJict with the objectives of any pIan or po1icy of the Town? The structure is obviously not in conformance with the ordinance, however, it is not impacting the neighborhood adversely. 4. What are the effects of the variance on pub1ic facHities and services? None." 19 MR. LARNEY-This morning I ta1ked to lee York, and I pointed out that there were severa1 comments that were not exact1y correct. I went back to her and showed her the other documents and she agreed that this thing, this bunding permit now removes me from the catagory of being an out1aw. I did not bund the structure without a bunding permit. I did not wiBy nn1y just go in there and throw up some structures without checking. I have a bunding permit issued by Mack Dean and approved. They checked severa1 times during the construction, and everybody was there. There was an open situation. Everybody knows about it. I described, in detan, what I was p1anning to do, and they aB approved. The point is that we have owned the 10t since 1971, and we, basicaBy, moved most of our things out of state. We want to possib1y bund there on that lake George 10t sometime, which is not on the water. It's reaBy 300 feet back from the 1ake front, and we thought, suppose, then, we actuaBy keep some of our furniture here. lets bui1d a storage, shed for it, and I didn't bui1d a storage shed, in the conventiona1 sense of the word, put a p1ywood shack and put tar paper over it and an iron pipe sticking out of the top, because I thought someday, if I want to use this sort of thing, I want something usab1e and decent, and I did not want to impact my neighbors adverse1y by putting up a piece of junk. So I bui1t, rea11y, what was probab1y, what was then considered a storage bunding 384 square feet on a footing, proper1y done and so forth, so it cou1d be converted, some time, to a usefu1 structure. WeB, the time has come, right now, when the sewer situation, I thought, 100ked better, we might have a sewer district right through there. Apparent1y, that's not going to happen, but it 100ks Hke the situation has improved somewhat. So now I'm thinking, yes, 1ets convert this thing to a use, and I ta1ked to David Hatin about it and he said, weB, the Hmits say 300 square feet, but you have 384 square feet. So, my choice is to chop off the, segregate the bui1ding, or 1et it stay as it is right now. So, I'm rea11y requesting a variance to be ab1e to say, 384 square feet is a fishing cabin, or a hunting cabin, yet in my own mind, I cannot, and never have understood what the was reaBy meant by a fishing cabin. To me, a fishing cabin means a p1ywood box you shove out on the ice, but I'm not reaBy sure what it rea By means. Anyhow, he said, okay, what you've got to do is severa1 things, and I'B work with you on this thing. and I must say right now that everybody who's come out has been very courteous and he1pfu1 and very professiona1, and very thorough. So, I appreciate aB the he1p I've been getting, and they said, the first thing you've got to do is get a variance. Without a variance, you can't do anything. Once you have the variance he said, I' B work with you on the detans Hke the smoke detectors and so forth, and we can then probab1y say, yes, this wiB be suitab1e for occupancy. MR. TURNER-When did you convert the shed to the cabin? MR. LARNEY-That's hard to say. It was a gradua1 thing. I guess I'm an optimist by nature. I think this is a storage bunding. The sewer district is coming through, and I thought, weB, I'B keep on improving unti1 such time as we can rea11y say, 1ets make this a structure. So, it happened gradua11y. I must confess that I rea11y jumped the gun, because I thought the sewer district was coming through. I was convinced. Now I'm convinced it's never going to come through. MR. TURNER-We11, 1ets put it this way. When did you finish it? MR. LARNEY-It's finished now. I never finish things. There's a1ways detans I want to improve, but for the most part, if I get approval. I cou1d use it now. MR. TURNER-Have you got your permit with you for the shed? MR. LARNEY-Yes, yes I do. MR. TURNER-He got a permit for a shed, and then he converted it to a cabin. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. He can't get an occupancy permit because it's considered a shed? MR. TURNER-No, he's considering it a cabin. Over 300, 300 square feet is the a110wed use for a hunting and fishing cabin. This is 380. It's over 300 square feet. Three hundred square feet's the Hmit. MRS. EGGLESTON-What if he just said it was a camp? MR. CARVIN-That's what I was 100king for is a camp. MR. TURNER-WeB, what he did, he got a permit to bund a shed, and then he converted the shed to a cabin. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. He did it without a permit. I understand that. He did it without a permit. MR. TURNER-We11, not the shed part, but the cabin part. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, to expand it. MR. TURNER-Foundation wa11 materia1 is poured concrete. It's eight inches thick. So, depth of foundation be10w the grade is five feet. So, obvious1y, when he bunt it, he intended to bund more than what a shed wou1d be. You wou1dn't put that in a shed. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. 20 MR. TURNER-Will there be a ceHar? No. Square footage, 380 square feet. Will any portion be used as living space? No. Half inch CDX, fiberglass shingles on the roof" two by six stud walls, spacing 16 inches. Exterior waH, finished vinyl, or aspenite. Interior waH not finished, but used for storage. Now, there's no water. There's no septic. What did you tell me you had for you septic? MR. LARNEY-We have one of those deluxe, sophisticated electric toys, $1600. MR. CARVIN-Is there water in the camp? MR. TURNER-No. MR. LARNEY-I did drill a well. MR. CARVIN-There is a well now. MR. LARNEY-I had a well drilled. MR. TURNER-Is it piped in? MR. LARNEY-Yes. I piped it with vinyl tubing. My friend who's a water guy said, Nor, the water's right there. I put a big X on it, and he said, it's about 60 feet down. I driHed 540 feet to get the water. MR. CARVIN-When was the well drilled, just out of curiosity? MR. LARNEY-1989. if there's water. water. The first thing you've got to do, if you ever want to build, I've got to find out So, if there's no water, I was just going to scrape the whole thing, but there was MR. TURNER-Okay. You're going to need a variance for the side yard setback, and you're going to need a variance for the frontage on the public road. MR. LARNEY-At the time of the setback, it did say that 10 foot was allowable. MR. TURNER-Yes, but that was for a storage shed, not for a cabin. MR. LARNEY-I see. MR. TURNER-You'H need a variance for that setback, and you'll need a variance for frontage on a town road. Does anyone have any further questions of Mr. larney, right now? None. Okay. let me open the public hearing, Mr. larney. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COIIENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MRS. EGGLESTON-Because of the cement wall, this couldn't be moved, would you say? MR. TURNER-No, but he could use it for a storage shed and build a house. MRS. EGGLESTON-And build a house up in here. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-The cart before the horse. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. LARNEY-Hindsight says I made a mistake, that I shouldn't have spent that much money to store some furniture. I should donated the whole thing and said, forget the whole thing, but somehow I got carried away. I built that, enclosed it and said, I'd like to make it look better so the neighbors won't complain, planted flowers around the thing, and did all that sort of stuff. MRS. EGGLESTON-Why aren't we looking at A, which is a single family dwelling, which is what it is? MR. TURNER-It's not a single family dwelling, no, it's not. He's got the cart ahead of the horse. MRS. EGGLESTON-But he's living in it, right? 21 MR. TURNER-Yes, but. MRS. EGGLESTON-You're Iiving in it, right? You're Iiving in this? MR. LARNEY-I have a motor home adjacent to it. The motor home is the primary residence. MR. TURNER-What he's telHng you is he put up a storage shed first and then he converted it without any of the. MR. LARNEY-I' ve had discussions with Mack Dean about this, and he understood. I was in a Catch-22 situation, and everybody's trying to be very helpful about this sort of thing and said, Iook, to do this sort of thing, we bunt 10 feet from the neighbor's Iot line, which was approved at the time, because he has nothing there but a blank, wa11 of garage. So, I thought, if I want to bui1d a house here, I want to move over as c10se to that thing as possible to make the house as unobtrusive as possible. There's only one neighbor who can even see the structure. Mr. Caribinal, right in front, he can see it. Well, Mr. Rourke can see it a little too. MR. CARVIN-How tall is this shed, or the cabin, approximately? MR. LARNEY-Twelve feet nine. MR. CARVIN-A peaked roof, fIat roof? MR. LARNEY-Peaked roof. Right. MRS. EGGLESTON-Do you intend this is the only thing you'll ever put on this Iot? MR. LARNEY-I'm not reaI1y sure. We've had some traumatic experiences there. I've owned the Iot since 197I. 1972 and 1973 were years that made mY stomach churn with the activities that worked against us there. Everything was adverse, and mY wife said, I don't want to bund on the Iot. I don't want to do anything on the Iot at a11. So, rea11y over her objections, I persuaded her, Iets do this, Iets work the thing gradua11y. BeHeve me, labor Day of 1973 was an extremely bad week for us, and I had to ca11 the poHce to protect us. The situation, as I say, it's become amicable, but my rights were grossly walked on at the time. MRS. EGGLESTON-But there's nothing to say you might not come back and want relief to bund a home on the property? MR. LARNEY-That's correct. Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. LARNEY-That's why, the way it's done right now, actua11y, it could be readi1y changed to something Hke, you know, 1200 square feet or that sort of thing, and I thought one time, if we ever wanted to do that, this existing structure could be the garage. That's why it's those dimensions, or a guest house, or something of that sort. MR. TURNER-Did you say guest house? MR. LARNEY-Well, you know, a place where you put grandchildren. That sort of thing. MRS. EGGLESTON-There are no sewers, no facilities septic? MR. TURNER-He's going to have to. MR. LARNEY-Dave said, that's the next step. I've got a Iong, I have a Iitany of things that I have to go through. I'm an optimist. I'm waiting for the sewer district to come through. MR. SICARD-How does he get on the Iake? He can't get on the Iake, can he? MR. TURNER-No. He has no access to the Iake, unless he's got it over here. MR. CARVIN-I stnl am unc1ear. It was bunt as a shed, and now it's slowly evolved into a principle residence or primary building? MR. TURNER-Yes. It's a primary building. MR. LARNEY-By nature, I just can't bund a plywood shack. I said a shed, and what is a shed, and I thought I don't even know what a fishing shack is. I said, Iets do it the way I would, I would bund a dog house the same way. 22 ~, i / ---- MRS. EGGLESTON-What would the practical difficulty be? Actually, it's a self imposed practical difficulty, if there is any. MR. TURNER-Yes. It's a self created hardship. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. CARVIN-I mean, the shed was approved, right, with all the setbacks and everything? MR. TURNER-Yes, the shed was approved at those setbacks, but then he converted it himself. MR. CARVIN-Yes, but they didn't add, I mean, that was the original dimensions of the shed, wasn't it? MR. TURNER-Yes, but I'm saying, they didn't add anything. They just converted it to a seasonal use. MR. CARVIN-Yes, but that's what I'm saying. I guess I still am lost here, as far as, he needs this for the occupancy. MR. TURNER-Yes. He"did it on his own. He never did anything. He doesn't have a septic system. He's got water. He doesn't have a septic system. MR. CARVIN-So, now he's calling it a fishing cabin? MR. TURNER-Yes. He changed the name of the building. MRS. EGGLESTON-Were we to deny it. MR. TURNER-They'd have to convert it back to the shed. MR. CARVIN-Back to the shed, or he'd have to lose 84 square feet some place. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. LARNEY-When building that thing, the construction people said 16 foot studs are no more expensive than 12 foot studs. So, I went 16 feet, 12 foot, it would have been 288 square feet, and so for the same amount of money, basically, I got the extra 80 some odd feet. MR. PARISI-Excuse me. Could I ask you a question, please. Your original building permit, which was for a shed, did not include any of the interior alterations that you've made subsequently. Is that correct? MR. LARNEY-No. It just said a shed, and I wasn't sure what you mean by shed. I surely don't want to put oriental carpets in a shed, but there's no reason why I said I couldn't make it look better than a plywood shack. So, I really think I went a bit overboard. MR. PARISI-I just want to point out one thing, just to clarify some of this, between having a building permit and not having a building permit. While you had a permit for a shed, interior alterations, the upgrading of the cabin also required a permit from the Town of Queensbury, and I haven't seen, on this building permit, any evidence that you applied for that at the time, or subsequently. MR. TURNER-That's my point. MR. LARNEY-If I do any interior work, paint the inside or do anything like that at all. MR. PARISI-Any upgrading between a shed and preparing it for a CO is interior alterations, and that would have been on your original plan, or it was mandated to be on your original plan. MR. TURNER-Obviously, you've insulated the cabin, right? MR. LARNEY-I have indeed. yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-See, and that all has to go by Code, has to be approved by. MR. LARNEY-I even insulated the dog house or the shed. We had the electri,cal people, you know, the underwriters came and checked the electrical work and so forth. MRS. EGGLESTON-But if you had gone about this properly, all of that would have had to have been approved by the building inspector, as you did it. MR. LARNEY-I discussed this with Mack Dean he said, you know, you really can't approve this kind of thing. You've got to have the sewers in first, and you can't have the sewer until you get the CO's, and we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and rules at that time for septic systems, holding 23 J ~) tanks. and so forth were in a state of f1ux, and it seems right now that things have stabi1ized. So, I think the situation is easier now, or at 1east more c1arified. MR. TURNER-My prob1em with it is that you said you're going to, someday you want to buHd a house on this 10t, and if you do, then you're saying you've got two principa1 bui1dings on the 10t. MR. LARNEY-It's on1y one structure. I wou1d never put two things on it. MR. TURNER-No, but you wou1d have if we granted the variance. You're saying you're going to use it for, 1ike, an out house for the peop1e that come there and stay in the house, a guest house, and 1ive in your residence. MR. LARNEY-I misspoke. It wou1d be part of the structure. the famHy room of the 1arger structure, but generany the way my wife fee1s about this sort of thing right now, that is a remote possibHity. In fact, I wou1d a1most say, that wou1d probab1y never happen. MR. CARVIN-Can I ask you one question? Do you have either a hunting or fishing 1icense? MR. LARNEY-No, I don't. MR. CARVIN-Then how can it be a hunting or a fishing cabin? Do you know what I'm saying? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-I mean, we're approving a fishing and hunting cabin, and he has no hunting or fishing 1icense. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-So, I mean, it's a sing1e fami1y residence, when push comes to shove. MR. TURNER-It's way undersized. Eight hundred square feet is the minimum. MRS. EGGLESTON-Ted, wou1d it be improper to say that before we entertained a motion here, that he had to see that the inside meets an the Codes, according to the Town of Queensbury, as to insu1ation, footage in the ground has to be so deep. MR. TURNER-You cou1d condition the variance with that, and that's going to kick that into gear anyway. If you grant him the variance, it's going to kick it into gear, because then he's got to come up with that kind of inspections. He's got septic, water, insu1ation, e1ectric, smoke detectors. MR. LARNEY-They did ten me I had a 10ng way to go, a 10t of inspections. I think I'n pass most of those. MR. PARISI-I have another question for you. This is sort of based on what has happened over the 1ast number of years. If you p1an to, possib1y, go to a 1arger structure, this may be a rhetorica1 question, do you p1an on app1ying for a bui1ding permit, or just sort of improving the shed further? MR. LARNEY-No, no. I don't do the things. I wou1dn't do that sort of thing. The chances of buHding another, at my age, right now, I'm not p1anning on, I just 10st the yen for driving nai1s. So, probab1y I'm not going to do that at an. In fact, I cou1d a1most state that that's not going to happen. I just want the use of the existing structure so that, the way it is right ,now. MR. TURNER-What happens to the motor home you've got? MR. LARNEY-We11, I may se11 that some time. MR. TURNER-No, but I mean, are you going to use that in conjunction with your hunting and fishing camp? MR. LARNEY-Yes. I think so, because it's right there, and we use, we take it away once in awhHe. I use it to go back and forth to Arizona. MRS. EGGLESTON-We cou1d condition a motion that if he wanted to buHd a primary residence, this had to be demo1ished. MR. TURNER-Yes. You cou1d do that. MRS. EGGLESTON-So there wou1dn't be two principa1 structures on such a smaH, reaHy. that's a sman 10t in a one acre zone. MR. TURNER-Yes. VIOLET LARNEY 24 MRS. LARNEY-I'm Violet larney, his wife. We bought the lot, in the first place, because we love lake George and we had a boat, and with this came the right for dock rights and water frontage, and that's why we really bought it. So, for 16 years, we had nothing on the lot except parking our car. We sold our house in Albany. After 35 years in Albany, we wanted some place to put a few things, because we'd spent our summers here and our winters in Arizona, and this has turned out to be just the right size for us to get in out of the rain, of which we've had considerable, it seems ìfke, when we're not on our boat, or sleeping overnight on our boat, and we're both 72 years old, and I don't think we really want anymore than this, and we would like to have this as a little boat, really, what it is is a studio apartment, you might say. It's our one room studio apartment, and it's just fine for us. We have no chiìdren. I have no brothers or sisters. So, we don't have crowds of people. So, it's mostly just the two of us. MR. TURNER-Okay, but you've got an the amenities in the buiìding. You've got a kitchen. You've got a hot water tank. MRS. LARNEY-We bought a new refrigerator, a sman seven gànon hot water tank. The main thing is we have a sink and the wash water is the only thing that you would consider a problem right now, and you'd want to alleviate that. MR. TURNER-Where does that go? MR. LARNEY-I put that outside the tank, chlorinated, water tube fiìters. I explained to the man, and he said, fine, fine. MR. TURNER-I just wanted to know where it went. That's all. MR. LARNEY-Then it goes in the flowers. MR. TURNER-All right. Thank you. If we let them live there as a seasonal camp that's fine, but down the road, if they sell this, then that's still there. MR. CARVIN-That's what I'm thinking. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-I'm trying to think how we can condition all this. MRS. EGGLESTON-Or what is the practical difficulty? MR. TURNER-There's no practical difficulty. It's a self imposed hardship. If you know you've got to have a permit to build a shed, then you know you've got to have a permit to modify a cabin. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I mean, there's nothing to say they couldn't make this into a regular house, with an the, apply for the buiìding permits and get, so they stin could use the, I mean, by going that route, couldn't they? MR. TURNER-Yes, but I don't think that's going to happen. MR. CARVIN-I mean, what would be the problem if we just left it as a shed? I mean, they won't let them live in it. MR. TURNER-They won't be able to live in it, that's all. MR. CARVIN-He's got a motor home. MR. TURNER-He's got a motor home. He lives in a motor home. Okay. What do we want to do with it? To me, this is a self imposed hardship. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I don't find a practical difficulty. MR. TURNER-There's no practical difficulty. MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 76-1992 NORBERT H. I VIOLET H. IARNE', Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Eggleston: Based on the fact that this is a self imposed hardship brought on by the owner himself when he applied for a buiìding permit to buiìd a shed, and then later down the road converted it to a cabin, without applying for a buiìding permit. He also driìled a wen on the property in 1989 to service the very cabin, the storage shed which is now a cabin. There is no practical difficulty, and to approve the application would violate the integrity of the Ordinance, and the zone which the cabin is in. 25 Duly ~dopted this 22nd d~y of July, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Sic~rd, Mr. C~rvin, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. P~ling MR. LARNEY-I would like to s~y th~t in 1972 ~nd 1973 I'm re~lly being put upon in the extreme situ~tion of h~rdship. let me tell you wh~t h~ppened. I didn't w~nt to bring this up, but it re~lly did h~ppen. In 1972 ~nd 1973, ~ dock which I built for my use, gr~nted by my deed, w~s torn down by ~nother m~n. He built ~ huge crib dock there, ~nd told me to go fly ~ kite. Get ~ l~wyer, sue, do ~nything you w~nt. Me~nwhile, th~t' s been 20 ye~rs ~go. For 20 years now I still have right to go down there and use my boat, but that so soured my wife on the situation up there with the neighbors ~nd this sort of thing, that she said, I don't want to build there. 1972 was mY first chance to build. At that time, I had ac~ess to sewer districts, not sewer districts, but a septic system. I could have built. I wanted to build, but she was turned off. In 1984, we built the motor home, and nothing else on the lot. A man complained, he said, because I don't want to look at your motor home, and he complained, and I had to come down here and talk, ~nd get ~pprov~l to use the motor home on the lot. So, when I consider what's h~ppened since 1972 ~nd so forth is akin to cross burning. I h~ve no use of my lot. I h~ve no use to use it the way th~t norm~l people can use it. I say that I have two rights there. One right is to use mY property as I see fit within the requirements and rules and so forth, and the second one as a human being. I'm not effecting anybody adversely around there whatsoever. I did not deliberately convert this to a cabin as such, and I said I'm not going to make a cabin right now. The well was drilled to supply my motor home. I have no water. So, I drilled a well for that sort of thing. The well was considered a test. If I don't have water, there's no point in building anything further. So, these things have happened gradually. If I'm responsible, and it appears I am, it was because I was trying to be very, very careful, and move quietly on this thing. Now is the time. When I talked to Dave Hatin, he said, okay, the solution is right now. You've got a lot of things to do. You must get the variance. If they ~gree to a variance, then you can go ahead and get approval for use of the structure, to put in smoke detectors and that sort of thing, and I said, fine, that's all we will do. So, I would really say that this denial is an extreme hardship. It makes the property, basic~lly, useless to me. I'm sure my neighbor on one side who sees it only through the trees when he's playing tennis will be ple~sed th~t I'm gone. I've been really violated. MRS. LARNEY-Wh~t do we h~ve to do? Do we h~ve to build, to come up to 800 square feet. In other words, we h~ve to h~ve a bigger environment~l impact, h~ve a bigger house th~t requires more sewers, more everything, when we're s~tisfied, we h~ve to spend, maybe, $100,000 in order to have ~pprov~l to build a house of 1,000 or 1200 squ~re feet before we c~n be ~pproved because this nice little one room place we h~ve doesn't suit you people? I mean, what do we h~ve to do? MR. LARNEY-See, the effects on the neighbors, there are no complaints. Telephone c~lls. I'm sure, bec~use in 1984 this m~n moved on me ~nd he s~id, I don't w~nt to look at th~t motor home. You can barely see it, but to me that's akin to cross burning. I mean, they pushed me to the wall and said, you've got to defend yourself. So. I went down to the Town Bo~rd, you people, and you s~id, cert~inly ~ motor home's allowed on the lot, but ~ll the time I'm being jeopardized by saying, you c~n't do this, you c~n't do that. So, I thought I was being extremely nice to my neighbors by making everything look ~s ple~sant as possible, being the least obtrusive as possible. In essence, I think I'm being a good citizen. MR. TURNER-No doubt you ~re, and we're not saying that you aren't, but your hardship w~s self imposed. You converted it yourself. Nobody twisted your arm. MR. LARNEY-And I would convert, wh~t's the definition of a tool shed, ~ stor~ge shed? Can it be just p~inted inside, c~n't you do things? There's no definition about what you can do inside, ~nd I just looked. MR. TURNER-You said you're living in it. MR. LARNEY-Not all the time, but sometimes yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Which means you're enjoying all of the amenities of the lot without complying with what every other Queensbury resident h~s to comply with, the rules and regulations of the zoning in the Town. MR. LARNEY-Right. That's ex~ctly why, every year I come down and find out what the new rules are, and this l~st ye~r. when I t~lked to D~ve H~tin, he s~id, well, you've got to do this. So, I s~id, okay, I want to do ~ll of those things. I want to comply. All 11m doing is suggesting th~t, give me the opportunity to comply. MRS. LARNEY-Okay. We did something wrong then. We didn't come down first before we slept in a bed in there. So, we're confessing our sins. We did something wrong. Wh~t can we do to ch~nge? 26 MR. TURNER-You have 30 days. You can appeal our decision. You can file an Artic1e 78 and appeal our decision. MRS. EGGLESTON-Or, can he talk to the building inspector about what he can do to use the lot, like build a house that conforms, or whatnot. MR. TURNER-Right, but he's got to have relief from the setbacks. He's got to have relief from the other two parts of the Ordinance. MR. LARNEY-Dave told me that, you know, you'd have to build an 800 square foot thing, mlnlmum. I think you have to recognize that, the point is that I don't really want to go through all the hassle right now. I don't need that, and I don't want it, and I thought if I could use that little thing right now, that would be the ideal situation for us. If I sell the motor home, then I at least have that to use. MR. TURNER-Well, that's our decision. You'll have to take it from there. MRS. LARNEY-We can't sleep in there at night. We have to go to the motor home. Is that right? MR. TURNER-I don't think anybody's going to go up there and do that to you, but as far as utilizing it as such. MR. LARNEY-It makes my whole situation up there untenable, and I really feel it all began with the guys who attacked me in 1972, burned mY boat, poured beer on it, hung carcasses on the boat. I had to call the police. MR. TURNER-I understand, but that's not pertinent to this. MR. LARNEY-This actually destroyed my concept of use of that property. MR. TURNER-I know. MR. LARNEY-And they're still there. They're enjoying the property. They're enjoying life. They're enjoying the tennis courts, and I'm now being thrown out and denied the use of that little 384 square foot cottage. Tomorrow, when they're out playing tennis on his 900 foot lot back to the main road, he will enjoy himself and he will enjoy the fact that he's made me miserable. MR. TURNER-Okay. Thank you. MR. LARNEY-Thank you very much. (9:58 p.m.) USE VARIANCE NO. 77-1992 TYPE: UNLISTED SFR-lA KAREN & RICHARD CUNNINGHAM HAIR DESIGNS OWNER: SAtE AS ABOVE 371 RiDGE ROM ADDING 4 TO 5 PARKING SPACES. TAX IMP NO. 109-1-5 LOT SIZE: 60 FT. BY 200 FT. SECTION 179-790 KAREN & RICHARD CUNNINGHAM, PRESENT (9:58 p.m.) MRS. EGGLESTON-The Warren County Planning Board approved, with the corrinents, "Concur with local conditions." STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Use Variance No. 77-1992, Karen & Richard Cunningham, July 14, 1992, Meeting Date: July 22, 1992 "The applicant is requesting to increase a hair salon by creating 5 additional parking spaces. Immediately to the north of the shop the use is nonconforming. The Board should be aware that there was no scale on the drawing so the staff was unable to determine if a variance might be necessary from the 65% permeable area requirement in the SFR-1A zone. If the scale is 1:40 then there is 6.326 sq. ft. of impermeable area on a 12,000 sq. ft. lot and the applicant may need another variance. This application was reviewed with regard to the criteria for an area variance. I. Is a reasonable return possible if the land is used as zoned? The property is currently nonconforming and the request is to expand a nonconforming use. The expansion of parking is for the employees, according to the application. The Board will have to decide if the expansion is to take care of an existing problem - i.e. parking of patrons and staff on Earltown's property. The applicant states that the taxes are such that the amount of business must not diminish. 2. Are the circumstances of this lot unique to the unreasonableness of the Ordinance? The circumstances were created because of a nonconforming use on a substandard lot. The ordinance is not unreasonable. 3. Is there an adverse effect on the neighborhood character? No. The character of the neighborhood should be improved by providing the parking necessary to provide for the business on the lot." MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I'm Karen Cunningham, and my husband and I own Hair Designs. We have a parking situation of a small overflow on certain business days. We have obtained permission from Earltown to park on 27 their property on these few days. We reso1ved this problem by talking to Mack Dean, years back, and on his suggestion, we were told permission would satisfy the problem. Now, our new problem is a complaint from Mrs. Chartier that we need a variance. That is why we're here. We have, and always will try to comply with Queensbury Ordinance. We would like to make it know to Mrs. Chartier, the prior owner, pleaded hardship and supported our variance for the salon. We had no objections from any neighbors. Our salon has grown to its maximum growth and we are looking to resolve this matter once and for all. I would like to present a letter from Earltown to assure you that we thought we were doing what we were supposed to do. Would you like to read that into the record? MR. TURNER-Yes. Thank you. Does anyone have any questions of Mrs. Cunningham? MR. CUNNINGHAM-My name is Richard Cunningham, and for the record, I would like the letter from Earltown read aloud. MR. TURNER-We will, at the appropriate time. MR. SICARD-Where are the cars of the employees being parked right now? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-What happened was, we were parking them in the overflow area, so that we could alleviate the pressure, because our business has grown. We wanted to make it comfortable for the customers. So, we were putting our cars in this extra area. MR. SICARD-Who owns that? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Earltown, but since the complaint, we have moved our cars into the main parking lot, which has created a problem. There's nowhere for these extra cars to go. My husband and I have our own car, and each of our employees. We have four part-time employees. So, there's certain days when six parking lots, or five are taken up. That only alleviates three. So, they've been going into overflow without us policing the area. We've told people they're not supposed to park there until we get a variance, if possible, but it's hard for us to police it. So, we've put our cars, in the last three months, in the main parking lot. MR. TURNER-All your work is by appointment? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Yes. MR. TURNER-So, you schedule how many a day? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Well, mY husband and I have been in the business 12 years and we don't take a lunch. I mean, we work from nine to five, and we book every half and hour, and we don't take a lunch. MR. TURNER-Every half hour? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Yes, and we have another man that works four to five days a week, and he's about the same. The other three employees only work two or three days. We have changed their schedules around a little bit to try to eliminate the problem, but it's really been difficult. We've lost a few customers that have just felt that they've been hassled, and some of them are older and they don't want to have to park too far away. We tried the street, and the sheriffs came and told us that we couldn't do that. So, we're in a situation. So, we thought if we could get our employees out of the way, we'd have more parking places. MR. SICARD-How many employees do you have? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Four. MR. SICARD-Four, and then your two is six. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Yes. MR. SICARD-So, we're looking at six cars. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Not every day. MR. TURNER-All right. How are they scheduled? What's the schedule for the part time employees? Who works what, or whatever? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-My husband and I work five days. No, my husband and I work four days each. I have Fri day off and my husband has Saturday off. That eliminates that day. The one man that works for us is quite busy. He works every half an 'hour, and he works from Tuesday through Saturday. We have one girl that works Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, and another girl who works Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday. 28 ----- -.../ MR. SICARD-So, most of the time, you probably have at least, between the employees and yourself, about five cars in there every day? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I would say, in the overflow area or in our parking lot? MR. SICARD-In your parking lot. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Our parking lot is almost always fun. We haven't expanded anything inside, but we have grown in popularity, and people are coming, and we seem to be doing okay. MR. CARVIN-When was this originally granted a variance? I don't see the date on the minutes. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I think it was about eight years ago. MR. CARVIN-About eight years ago? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Do you remember how many employees you might have had at that point? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-We had two. MR. CARVIN-So you had two, and now you have six? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Right. Well, we had two employees plus us. There was four, and now there's six. MR. CARVIN-Okay. So, over the last eight years, you've gone up by at least two employees? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Right. MR. TURNER-All right. let me open the public hearing, then maybe we'll have some further questions. I'll now open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED BONNIE GLENDENING MRS. GlENDENING- I got very concerned after Mr. Juckett was here, because I've really have seen rental property down the street, the establishment that Hair Designs is now used to be a rental property. It really was not maintained very well, and it was very distressing see that, and I was very pleased to see what they have done with the building. It always looks very nice and clean, and it's very aesthetic, and I think that most professionals do do it in that manner. The traffic issues haven't bothered me. I'm a little bit out of the main stream of that, but everything has always been maintained very well. A little more activity in that neighborhood, especially with the proximity to Quaker Road doesn't bother me. It seems like what one does with their property is very much, but what they have done, and I think you're seeing it, has been very classy. As a resident of the neighborhood, I have been very impressed with them as neighbors. They are very quiet. If Mr. Sicard sort of scared me that you can go for another type of issue to the Town, for a different classification, you could put something else in there, and I think the concerns are there. I think what we have to look at is the people we can get and deal with some of their needs, and I know you have some hard issues. I have a hard issue. MR. TURNER-Okay. Thank you. REBECCA ROUNDS MRS. ROUNDS-Hi. My name's Rebecca Rounds. I'm a client at Hair Designs, and one thing I've noticed, my appointments vary from day to day, sometimes on Wednesdays, sometimes Thursdays. There have been times there have been cars parked half way in the street, which is a public safety hazard. There have been times I've been concerned a.bout being able to find a place for mYself to park. I consider Hair Designs to be a real asset to the community, and they do keep the place up very nicely. I don't know if you have any questions? MR. TURNER-None? None. Thank you. DOROTHY CHARTIER MRS. CHARTIER-Several members of the Board have stated exactly what mY reason is for standing here, and that was my concern about my neighborhood. I'm interested because I've lived here for 43 years. My neighbors whom I represent are the same ones that I represented before, the Knoblauchs who have the property across the street, two other property owners across the street, and mYself. Now, we're the ones who are most adversely effected. We're the ones who take the brunt of all of this. People 29 "" "\ who ìive farther away, or who don't stay there at night, or who don't ìive there and don't pay their taxes there reaììy don't have the probìems that we have. My discussions previousìy concerning this issue have aìways been with the Town of Queensbury for my neighbors. Since I've taken up this issue, I have been harassed. I have been castigated. An of this wiìì be taken care of at a future date, in another forum, but for the time being, I'd ìike you to know that the ìot which is being used now is not being used efficientìy. It probabìy has space for about 12 cars. The entrance of the estabìishment is aìmost, extends so far out that it reany makes it difficuìt for peopìe to park on either side. If Mr. or Mrs. Cunningham couìd drive just one car from their home to their pìace of business, that wouìd be another car that wouìd be avaiìabìe. Perhaps if they had an organized approach to the parking itseìf, they wouìd find they don't have a probìem. As the ìast person mentioned, cars are parked haphazardìy. Weìì, I'm sorry that this happens, but we're the ones who ìive there. It is a residentiaì neighborhood, and we have to ìook at this. Now, I have another point that I want to make. There is a buiìding in the rear of the property, with a two car garage. It has never been used for cars, but it is being used, and has been for two years, for a business. There is a business being operated out of that garage. MR. TURNER-What is it? MRS. CHARTIER-It's a construction company. MR. TURNER-Who? MRS. CHARTIER-The man's name is loreì. Now, he put a sign out in front of Earìtown property advertising it, and my neighbor, Mrs. Knobìauch, had to can the Town of Queensbury to have it taken down. I've ìistened to a ìot of the "F" words constantìy, when they're working there, and I have famiìy and friends there, at my pìace, and even with the Earìtown ìot between us, I hear the "F" word this, and the "F" word that constantìy, and I had to have someone speak to this person and ask him not to taìk ìike that because we had young chiìdren. MR. TURNER-What's their type of business? Do you know? MRS. CHARTIER-Construction. MR. TURNER-Of what type? MRS. CHARTIER-I don't know. Now, we hear about the increase in business, and I'm happy that they're doing good business. However, there are no jobs at risk here. I think the Board shouìd be made aware that the operators of a hair care business each have their own probìem, and make a financiaì arrangement with the owner of the premises to use a station, and cOllll1On faciìities and parking. They pay Hair Designs. Hair Designs does not pay them. That's a big difference from having a ìot of empìoyees, and so if you keep inviting associates, or "co-entrepreneurs" to do business with you when you don't have the parking for it, naturany, you're going to do ìess money, but it's going to be nice for the neighborhood. The other thing that I wanted to mention, I've got a document here that I've aìready submitted for you to read. It's a ìong one. Now, as I say, my onìy interest in this is my neighborhood, and an of us who ìive there, whom I represent, are ìong term tax payers and residents of this neighborhood, most of them 30 years, mine 42. MR. TURNER-One question before you sit down. The peopìe that use the garage in the back, do they access the right-of-way of Earìtown? MRS. CHARTIER-Yes. That's the other point I wanted to make. There is no right-of-way. That's Earìtown's property. The buiìding that's back there doesn't have any access to this road, except on the southside, but that's the reason it was purchased for onìy $25,000 by the Cunningham's. 1. pay the cost of not having that be parking property. Do you understand what I'm saying? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MRS. CHARTIER-Is there any questions? MRS. EGGLESTON-Not yet. MR. TURNER-I don't have any. Not yet. Maybe we might have some more. Thank you. (END OF FIRST DISK) 30 MR. CUNNINGHAM-My name is Richard Cunningham. I wanted to straighten out a few comments that Mrs. Chartier has mentioned. One, as far as our tenant is concerned, our tenant is construction, but he also works for the Sandy Rist, who is his employer. So, probably he would be bringing building supplies into the garage, or whatever. The way we look at it, it's his building to rent. It's his house, and we're not allowed to do anything, as far that is concerned. MR. TURNER-What does he do there? MR. CUNNINGHAM-He's in construction. MR. TURNER-I know, but he's a subcontractor for Sandy Rist? MR. CUNNINGHAM-No. He works primarily for Sandy Rist. He's under Sandy Rist's payroll. MR. TURNER-He doesn't do any work in the garage? MR. CUNNINGHAM-The way I look at it is that it's there for storage. He stores materials in there. MR. TURNER-He rents the house in the back. He utilizes the two car garage. MR. CUNNINGHAM-For storage, probably for his extra lumber that he has, going from one job to another. MRS. EGGLESTON-Does he live in the house? MR. CUNNINGHAM-Yes, he does. MRS. EGGLESTON-He lives in the house. MR. TURNER-Is he a subcontractor? MR. CUNNINGHAM-No, he is not a subcontractor. He is under Sandy Rist's payroll. MR. TURNER-Do you know that for sure? MR. CUNNINGHAM-Yes, I do. MR. TURNER-Because that's the way a lot of them work. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Yes, I understand that. He had gone independent for a while, but that was, like, a year or two ago. MR. TURNER-He can't run a business there at all. MR. CUNNINGHAM-No. He didn't operate a business out of there. MR. TURNER-He must of, if he had a sign up. Do you deny there was a sign there? Mrs. Chartier says there was a sign there. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I'm Karen Cunningham. If this has gone on, we have been totally unaware of it. We never saw the sign. If there is a problem with him, we will be more than happy to comply. We rent the place. We get our rent. If he's doing something, we can't honestly say. We don't go in and check out, I mean, he has done everything legitimately, from our point of view. We had no idea of this. If he is doing something he shouldn't be, we will be more than happy to get a new tenant there. That is not a problem. MR. TURNER-That's single family residential one acre zone, the most restrictive zone in the Town, and there's no business allowed in it, period. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I would have had no idea. All I know is he has a truck with his name on it. I mean, that isn't something we, probably, are here for. MR. TURNER-He has a truck with his name on it? MRS. CUNNINGHAM-He has a truck with his name on it. MR. TURNER-Then he is in business. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Okay, well, then, we'll take care of that, if that's what you'd like us to do. MR. TURNER-That's what we'd like. MRS. CUNNINGHAM- That is not a problem with us. We did not know that was at issue here. We were not the least bit prepared for that problem. 31 MR. TURNER-We weren't aware that it existed until it came up tonight. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Neither were we, and as far as the right-of-way, when Mrs. Chartier sold that to us, she was very concerned about us getting this piece of property and she used that right-of-way. How did her tenants get back there? They didn't walk. They didn't park in the road. They had to have gotten back to their apartment, and as far as her tenants go, we have to evict them because they didn't pay their rent to us for three months. We had to replace a furnace, a roof, and we had our own hardships, and we bought the hardship, and as far as her listing how much we bought it for, we bought it, we fixed it, and it's ours, and we're proud of it, and we just want to do the best we can now. Those problems, and as far as the way they're speaking, I didn't know they were doing these things. Those are things we cannot be responsible for, at this point, but we will take care of everything that needs to be taken care of. I just wanted to make that clear. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Again, as far as the parking stands, at this point, we have had a number of conversations with Pat Crayford, in trying to resolve this problem, and the reason why our parking is haphazard at this point is trying to have people not use this property until a decision has been made, as far as compliance with the Town of Queensbury. So, a lot of times our clients, when they come in for parking, are so confused at this point, that they don't know where to park their cars anymore, and we have handed out notes, as far as requests from Pat, as far as asking our clients not to park on this property, but again, we're unable to police that area. MR. TURNER-You've got to identify some area where they're going to park, then, or something. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Once this problem is resolved, yes, we should be able to designate an area, but things are very, very confusing for our clients. MR. CARVIN-Yes. Is this the only Hair Designs in town, or do you have other sites? MR. CUNNINGHAM-No, we do not. MR. TURNER-You gave us a map that's not to scale or anything, and our Checklist says to scale, and we've got to have a map to scale, mark the spaces out, what you've got, and everything. See, you've got proposed area here. You've got measurements, but. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Right. I was told this was sufficient enough. MR. TURNER-No, it's not. MR. SICARD-Is that all going to be blacktopped? MR. CUNNINGHAM-No. This is only a temporary situation. MR. SICARD-These spaces are going to have to be put down some way on the blacktop. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Well, yes. What we have done is we've waited for hooking into the sewer before we'd even blacktop, instead of laying blacktop, tearing it up, and so wJrh~oking into the sewer. MR. TURNER-Yes. We've got to know the sizes in relation to permeability and everything. That's what we've got to have. MR. SICARD-You say, when this is resolved. What are we talking about, now? Do you mean tonight, when this meeting is resolved? See, we really can't give you a variance until we're absolutely sure how many spaces you've got to work with. We don't know that. MR. TURNER-There's a permeability issue here too, Charlie, and they've got to identify it, and they've got to show us what they've got there so we can work with it. MR. SICARD-Who owns the garage? MR. CUNNINGHAM-We do. MR. SICARD-So, then you could be using MR. CUNNINGHAM-No, we can't. MR. TURNER-It's rented. MR. SICARD-It goes with the house? MR. TURNER-It goes with the house. the garage for maybe a couple, three parking places. 32 MR. CUNNINGHAM-It's rented, and the way we 100k at it, when we rent something, it's their property. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-But we can change that, Rick. It's our home. I mean, we own it. We can ten them to park anywhere we want. MR. SICARD-We're trying to use everything you've got to give you enough parking spaces. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Actuany, again, what we are 100king at here is, we're 100king at Ear1town's property, because of the way the 1ine 1ays. The 1ine 1ays two feet in front of the front door of this back buf1ding here. MR. SICARD-Who owns that property? MR. TURNER-Ear1town. MR. CUNNINGHAM-Ear1town owns that property. MRS. EGGLESTON-Before we proceed, though, shouldn't we tab1e this? They have to come back and go down this. It has to be the scale, and the north arrow. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-When we showed that to Pat, she seemed to, we first came with a different proposal and had the parking spaces in, and she said. MR. TURNER-We've had this Check1ist for a 10ng time. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I know. She told us to go back and do it again, and she approved that. MR. SICARD-You might be ab1e to combine, as Mrs. Chartier so wen said, that you cou1d ride to work together or something. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Wen, the problem is, we do work different hours. He works one to nine, and I work nine to five. MR. SICARD-We're 100king to get you in there. but to have something like this. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I just got a new car in October, okay. This problem has been for four years. The prob1em is not my car. I mean, I have never had my own car. I'm 38 years old. My first car I bought in October. My car is not the prob1em. I'll 1eave my car home. The problem is that our customers do not have enough safe places to park. MR. TURNER-I think you've got to identify them better than you do. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Yes. MR. TURNER-You've got to 1ay it out so they know where to park. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-AI1 right, can I ask one question? Is the fact of us being ab1e to park on Ear1town's property tota11y out? I mean, being that we have granted permission. MR. TURNER-I don't know what they've said yet. We'11 read that into the record. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-That wou1d be, we have even considered if we cou1d even go a year to year variance with that. MR. SICARD-We can't give you a variance for somebody e1se's property. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-That's why we're going for our own. Okay. MR. SICARD-But if you do get permission for it, that would probab1y be the out, I'd try to find out who is in charge of the property, not who owns that. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-We've got a 1etter. MR. SICARD-That may be the answer. MR. CUNNINGHAM-I think if you read this 1etter. MR. SICARD-We'11 read the 1etter into the record, yes. fI)1ION TO TABLE USE VARIANCE NO. 77-1992 KAREN a RICHARD œNNINGHAM, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Char1es Sicard: 33 '-- To provide the Board with the proper scale on the property, address the issue of permeability, and layout the parking areas. Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Paling MR. TURNER-We'll leave the public hearing open. MRS. CHARTIER-You said they could park on Earltown without a variance? MR. TURNER-No, we didn't say that. MR. SICARD-They find out who owns Earltown, and they must have someone's permission. MRS. CHARTIER-But doesn't it require more than permission? MR. SICARD-Well, I don't know who owns it. MRS. CHARTIER-I thought, commercially, you have to have a variance. This is zoned residential, and they're parking commercial vehicles on a residential road. MR. SICARD-First, we've got to find out who owns Earltown. Then we can make a decision whether we, in the Town of Queensbury, can let them park there, see if we can solve the problem. MRS. CHARTIER-Because I'm very much aware and effected by all this. MR. TURNER-I understand. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I thought you were going to do the letter from Earltown tonight. MR. TURNER-We will next time. It's still open. We haven't gotten to that point tonight. The public hearing is open. So, I won't read the Correspondence until you come back the next time. MRS. CUNNINGHAM-I just want it understood, that we do have permission now. What would you like us to do until the next meeting? I'll leave my car home. MR. TURNER-All right it. We'll read it. MRS. EGGLESTON-This is the letter to the Queensbury Zoning Authorities, from leslie Sanderspree, who's President of Earltown Corporation, "As President of Earltown Corporation, this is to advise you that the Corporation has never objected to the use of our right-of-way just north of the Cunningham property for parking purposes by Hair Designs and their customers. We've given our permission to the Cunninghams to use this space for parking purposes, subject, of course, to our own needs, should they exist. As President of the Corporation, I have admired the lovely way the building has been kept up by the owners. I submit this letter to the Board so that there can be no misunderstanding of our position, and to reduce to writing our position given to the Cunninghams to park on our right-of-way." MRS. CUNNINGHAM-Thank you. MRS. CHARTIER-Are my comments that I made, going to be part of this? I sent a list of facts to the Board. MR. TURNER-I think we'll read it the next time. We've got a pretty lengthy agenda, and it's tabled, and I left the public hearing open, and we'll read it the next time. MRS. CHARTIER-I've been very patient. MR. TURNER-I understand, but it'll be back. You can come back a month from now. AREA VARIANCE NO. 81-1992 TYPE: UNLISTED WR-lA DEAN H(JfWD, JR. HOWlAND CONSTRUCTION, INC. OWNER: ROBERT L. EVANS II\SON ROAD, CLEVERDI\LE TO REJlJVE EXISTING HOOSE AND SlED/CARPORT AND SEPTIC SYSTEM AND BUILD A NEIl HOOSE 55 FT. FROM THE SHORELINE IN LIEU OF THE RE~IRED 75 FT. SETBACK; AND 16 FT. FROM THE NORlH SIDE LINE IN LIEU OF THE RE~IRED 20 FT. SIDEYARD SETBACK. {WARREN coom PWNING} TAX IMP NO. 13-1-18 LOT SIZE: 20,505 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-60, 179-16 DEAN HOWLAND, JR.. PRESENT 34 ~- MRS. EGGLESTON-The Warren County Planning Board approved with thé comments, "Concur with local conditions." STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Area Variance No. 81-1992, Dean Howland, July 21, 1992, Meeting Date: July 22, 1992 "The applicant is requesting a shoreline setback variance and a sideline setback variance. The staff has requested information from the applicant which verifies that this is also a 50% expansion. The current structure is 1,791 sq. ft. The proposed structure is 2,988 sq. ft. This may be a Type I action. The new construction appears to be extended from the original footprint. If this is construction of a complete new structure it can be moved 75 feet back from the lake and with minor modifications meet the rear yard setback of 30 feet. The structure could also be reduced by 4 feet on the north side and eliminate the need for a side yard variance. The staff would also recommend that the garage be turned so that the driveway would come in directly from east to west from Mason Road. This would eliminate the large amount of blacktop which is visible on the plan. The Board is very aware of the sensitivity of the land in the Critical Environmental Area. The 75 foot requirement was instituted so that in cases where new construction was involved the setback requirements would be adhered to. Over time greater protection would be afforded the lake. Since the applicant is removing all the structures on the lot and the septic system is across the street, the Board could view this as a vacant lot. The staff would urge the Board to get alternative plans which would minimize the impacts of this development. The applicant should clearly describe what their practical difficulty is. If all structures are being removed then a new home could be placed within the setback requirement." MR. TURNER-Dean, do you want to qualify some of the questions that were asked by Staff? MR. HOWLAND-Yes. My name is Dean Howland, Jr. Again, I have a print here that might be a little bit easier for you to view, of the existing house as compared to the new structure. I've been working for the Evans' for a couple of years about putting in their existing house. We've looked at trying to remodel the existing house and it's, being a typical camp that's been added to, structurally, it's not economical for us to redo the existing camp. We've looked at utilizing the existing carport that's about seven inches off the property line, and our latest plan, we went through numerous plans, we decided that that was an economical thing to do either. They wanted an attached garage, so we had to trade off. To address a couple of other things, too. When we built up at lake George now, we've automatically been doing it since the lake George Park Commission initiated stormwater management a couple of years ago, even though it doesn't take effect until this fall, in September, we do it on all our homes that we build. Anytime you do a home on the lake, it always requires that the owner put in a new septic system, unless it's been recently installed. So, we've looked at, again, the concerns. My major concern when designing a house is to try to design it to the neighborhood and make it look, or fit into the neighborhood. This particular house, there's just white clapboards, and it's an existing structure and it's of Colonial design in nature. As far as the blacktop and driving directly in to the house, that leaves you, basically, the garage to park in and two parking spaces. Being permeable land, we have to take a driveway coverage square to our roof and to our stormwater management system, and it doesn't really, we put a little bit more crushed stone around. That's all that sort of happens there. So we didn't figure that that was a concern, being that they want to be able to drive into a side, come in, and come in a semi circular driveway, is what their wants were. We have also taken into consideration there's water that stands on Mason Road during the winter time, basically, it's just, everybody's been doing something over there, fill, whatever it might be, and we thought that if we had the board meet the road, one time, rather than cutting, we could get a sewer line over to the opposite side. We'd also, at that time, install some kind of drainage system. Other than that, on the print, I'll show you one. The new house we've told, there's a library, which I'll show you, that is as far up front as the existing house is right now. Then there's a patio that we have. We call it a veranda on the print. That's just going to be a slate patio, a stone patio, which follows the line of the existing front of the house and goes a little bit further in width. Other than that, we're bringing the main house structure back another 10 feet back, and that's going to give us approximately 37 feet off the property line. MR. TURNER-Will that patio have a roof over it? MR. HOWLAND-It will not have a roof over it. There's also, again, it could pull back a little bit more, but then it would give us a little hard problem with the circular driveway and make it easy turn there, but that's not really a problem to deal with. When you do a lot, that's all we build on is basically lake George. Most of the people, I mean, they want to tear down, they want to stay as close to the lake as they are now. As I said, coming back the 10 feet from the main house, which would be, basically, the living room and dining room area, was not a concern to them. It was just a recommendation. I thought it would look better. I do have some things to just show you what the house is proposed to look like on the northern view, since that is the only one I have done, and that's the one with the 16 foot setback. I also color coded, I tried to color code the existing house over the new footprints, and you can see what it looks like. The pink is roughly the size of the existing structure. It's a little bit out of scale, because when my computer prints, it goes a little wider, left or right there, but that's approximately what it is. This is the one structure that would be, and if this actually, out the window here, that would be on the existing frontal setback line, and this is for the main house. We brought it back, roughly, the 10 feet. Of course we're going to go wider. That's why they built it light, trying to get more view of the lake from every part of the house. 35 ì ....... MR. TURNER-Okay. This porch right here. Is this a porch, patio, or what? I can't read the dimensions. MR. HOWLAND-That's four feet. MR. TURNER-Four feet? MR. HOWLAND-Yes. It's nine feet. MR. TURNER-I got the nine all right. Okay. So, that's a toilet and a shower. What else? MR. SICARD-Have you got any plans, Dean, of the septic system? Are you pumping into an existing tank on the other side of the road, before you pump it over across through the road? MR. HOWLAND-Wen, normany what you do in that situation it's a two tank system, totany engineered. We've had the engineer out there. Again, we're trying to put the horse before the cart, just to make sure of what we can do. The owner does have the two pieces of property across the road, and I recommend just using the northern piece of property, so that we can pump from the house, and normany we use a septic tank and a pumping tank. lately, we've been using just a grinder tank, which is a grinder pump that pumps across into a septic tank. MR. SICARD-Well, the pumping system, then, will be on the lake side of the road? MR. HOWLAND-Yes. They're usually right outside of the house. MR. SICARD-That'll probably be in a separate tank. MR. HOWLAND-Right. They'd normally use two, unless you use the grinder pump system, which can go into a tank or into a house, in the garage floor. MR. SICARD-Is there any plans for the second lot across the street? MR. HOWLAND-There's nothing at this time. MR. SICARD-Will you be utilizing a complete lot? What is the size of that lot? MR. HOWLAND-The size of the lot is on the print. It's right here. I think it's 34,000 feet. That's the two lots combined. MR. SICARD-So, you're talking about 15, 16,000. MR. HOWLAND-It was four. Now they're two lots. You've got one, and two. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. SICARD-Couldn't the stormwater be pumped over there also? MR. HOWLAND-The stormwater you don't pump. Basica11y, the stormwater system, they anow you to use drywens. We prefer to use a trench and tota11y back fin with stone. I think Cleverdale you've got heavy day muck. MR. SICARD-Yes. See, that's a pretty good sized house. You're going to have quite a bit of brook water. MR. HOWLAND-Yes, but it's a really easy system. What we do, we've done it everywhere. We just completed a system. It's a quite easy system. We just back fill with crushed stone. That's all. MRS. EGGLESTON-To understand, you would tear down what's there, completely, and start over from scratch, basement and the whole bit, everything? MR. HOWLAND-Correct. MR. HOWLAND-So, your intentions are to come back 10 feet away from the lake, from what it is now? MR. HOWLAND-Except for one room that is 14 feet wide, that expanse right here. MR. TURNER-That library room. MR. HOWLAND-See, it shows you. This right here. This is the old house, the dark area. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, and this is the new here, right? MR. HOWLAND-Right. 36 MRS. EGGLESTON-So, this part, out on here. MR. TURNER-That's the patio, and that's the 1ibrary. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. Okay. So, then you're not rea11y, when you take this into consideration, you're sti11 going to be the same distance from the shore1ine? MR. HOWLAND-Right. We don't want to go any c10ser to the shore1ine. We just want to go wider. That's an. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. That's mY prob1em with wider, because this house is very dose to this Hne, this house, the Weatherbee's. I know I was up there and I 100ked. So, then you're going to bring this over 16 feet, when you get finished. MR. HOWLAND-Yes, but it wou1d e1iminate this one here. We11, we cou1d have gone to the south a 1itt1e bit. MRS. EGGlESTON-A 1itt1e bit more this way? I mean, if you're going to tear it down and start a11 over. How do you address this question that Staff asked? "The new construction appears to be extended from the origina1 footprint. If this is construction from a comp1ete new structure it can be moved 75 feet back from the 1ake and with minor modifications meet the rear yard setback of 30 feet. The structure cou1d a1so be reduced by 4 feet on the north side and eHminate the need for a side yard variance." How wou1d you address that? Is there any way you cou1d, and then you wou1dn't need any. MR. HOWLAND-No. I can't address that, to get to that particu1ar p1an, or wants of the customers. I mean, I can't do that. We cou1d bring it back seven feet, rough1y, but I wou1d sti11 be within, I'd sti11 need a variance, because I'd sti11 be within 75 feet of the water. MR. SICARD-You're not going to bother their boat-house at an property, are you? You're not going to impinge on the boat-house? MR. HOWLAND-No. It doesn't have anything to do with, the boat-house is independent. We aren't going to do anything different to the property. MRS. EGGLESTON-And a11 of the macadam is going to be 1eft, and you won't touch any of that? MR. HOWLAND-We'H probab1y fix that, because we wiH change, we'H make sure everything runs away to the house to the areas we want it to run to. MR. TURNER-A11 right. Are you going to terminate your macadam right here, the new macadam, and you're going to take this one out and make this screen, or do you want to turn in there and go right out around? MR. HOWLAND-You want to turn in here. To come out of a garage, you need 36 feet to back your car out. MR. SICARD-They're going to have to move out of the house, aren't they? MR. HOWLAND-They're going to rent a p1ace. MRS. EGGlESTON-Cou1d you move it, so it wou1dn't vio1ate the side Hne setbacks. Wou1d that be an extreme hardship? Cou1d you p1ace it on the 10t so it doesn't vio1ate the side 1ine setbacks? I don't have as much a prob1em, I know the lake George Park Commission, an that, has fits with the shore1ine, but I mean, it's existing, what's there, and the facts are you cou1d 1eave it that way, but the side 1ines, if there was somehow, this is rea11y going to be c10se to this neighbor, and these peop1e might not a1ways 1ive here. I mean, these peop1e probab1y get a10ng, but they're very c10se for future. MR. HOWLAND-Yes. BasicaHy, that came from the 1ast thing. We thought it was a trade off between taking down the green shed. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. Even if this house wasn't so c1ose. MR. HOWLAND-We11, they a11 are out there. They're a11 nonconforming, the two houses either side. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, but cou1d you set it so that, bring that four foot over? MR. HOWLAND-Not at that width I can't, because I missed the 30 feet. I cou1d move it over, but then, that's not objectionab1e either, but then we'd be a 26 foot setback on the opposite side, and I thought you needed 20 and 30, correct? MR. TURNER-You need a sum of 50, a minimum of 20. MR. HOWLAND-A sum of 50. 37 MRS. EGGlESTON-I just thought, as I Iooked at this, this is going to be close quarters in here. MR. TURNER-I can see what she's saying. If you did move it four feet that way, you could pick up 20 here. MR. HOWLAND-There's no objection to that. MR. TURNER-An right. That's what she's saying. Just move it over four feet. Get rid of that one right there. You'd have your minimum of 20 right there. MR. HOWLAND-Yes. That's no concern. MR. TURNER-That shed's going to go? MR. HOWLAND-That shed's going to go, and we're in between the big trees, fitting in there right now, and we could move to the south. MR. CARVIN-It Iooks Iike it's seven foot to the line here, and this one's seven foot. So. if we could move that over, and kind of square that up. MR. HOWLAND-I did that for the customer, just because I wanted to try to get as much exposure on the southern part of the house. MR. CARVIN-I don't have a real problem with the closeness to the Iake either, in a preexisting. MR. TURNER-Well, they could build in the original footprint and not even have to come here. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-I guess the only other concern I have is that garage right there, the way it's facing. You could get rid of a Iot of that blacktop if you just turned that thing right around to face the road, because Weatherbee's garage is Iike that on a 45, and that's blacktop right there, and they just drive right in. MR. HOWLAND-If it has to be that way, then I'm quite sure that would not be a problem. It's just we figured the blacktop would pick up the stormwater. MR. TURNER-I know, but what I'm saying, Dean, is why couldn't you put a Httle turn in radius right there, Hke a five foot radius there and a five foot radius there, open that up and make that Iook, and approach radius. MR. HOWLAND-Well, they just wanted to have a circular driveway. That was one of their wants. MR. TURNER-You're in a tough spot. I think you're going to get some flack from the APA, and it's got to go to the APA if they want a review. MR. HOWLAND-For what? MR. TURNER-It's in the APA. MR. HOWLAND-If it's blacktop. MR. TURNER-It's in the APA. They'n Iook at the whole thing. They're going to say, why an the b Iacktop. MR. SICARD-Have you applied to them yet at all? Have they gone into the Park? MR. HOWLAND-We never go to them. We don't have to do anything with them. We never go to the Park Commission. MR. TURNER-What's the proposal for the house? Where are you Iooking at to start it, in the fall? MR. HOWLAND-In the fall, the day after labor Day. MR. TURNER-Would you consider talking it over with him, that part? MR. HOWLAND-If that's going to hold up a variance, we would go in the end of the garage. MR. TURNER-Okay. An right. I'd rather see that, because the Iot is real smal1. What that's going to do is it's going to make this area green, this area green and it's not going to take away from the Iot so much by putting all the blacktop in there. 38 MR. CARVIN-If you were to turn the g~r~ge, how wide wou1d it be? MR. HOWLAND-We11, we wou1dn't turn the garage. We'd just enter in the opposite direction. MR. CARVIN-From this way? MR. HOWLAND-I take that b~ck, because the appearance of it. MR. TURNER-You've got a jog in that wa11. MR. HOWLAND-The appearance of the house is to give this Co10nia1 100king effect, with the drop roof, and if I had to, of course, the doors wou1d go on the opposite end, and there's, one side wou1d go on one jog and one side wou1d go on the other. MRS. EGGlESTON-I think Dr. Evans t01d me he intends to 1e~ve this, even though you're going to have ~n attached, according to this. Wi11 this have an att~ched garage? MR. HOWLAND-No. MR. CARVIN-No, the carport's going, right? MR. HOWLAND-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-But this garage? MR. HOWLAND-That's not here. That's part of the new construction. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. MR. SICARD-I think the biggest thing that they're doing, I don't know if you agree with me, is moving the septic system across the road. MR. TURNER-They've got to anyway. They've got to be away from the 1ake. MR. SICARD-I underst~nd that. MR. HOWLAND-We11, we c~n put it on that particu1ar 1ot. They've got an idea1 situation. MR. SICARD-They've got an 'idea1 situation, and that p1ace up there it is, I think it's great that they're moving ~cross the road. It's going to be expensive, but it's ide~1. It's an ide~1 situ~tion. He's very 1ucky he's got that 1and. MR. SICARD-Do you think that he ought to ta1k this over with the Director ~nd come back? MR. TURNER-He said no, if it's going to ho1d it lip. He doesn't want to ho1d it up. He'd turn the garage. MRS. EGGLESTON-Wen, he'd drive right in Hke this, you mean? You'd be wining to do that, to drive right in the garage 1ike this? MR. HOWLAND-Sure. MRS. EGGLESTON-And make this side Hne 26, and this 20. So, that wou1d be 20 feet on the front, and four feet here. MR. TURNER-He's going to have to go to site p1an anyway. Is this 10t going to be 96 feet? MR. HOWLAND-I be1ieve so. It's in the Tax Maps as separate pieces of property. MRS. EGGLESTON-And I think Mrs. Evans t01d me that it's cost prohibitive to redo the house that's there, but that cou1d be part of our practica1 difficu1ty, in that it's 01d and needs major improvements th~t wou1d be cost prohibitive. MR. TURNER-I just w~nt to make sure there's enough room over here. If this f~i1s, they've got another spot to go, that's a11. MR. SICARD-Is there a basement under that? MR. HOWLAND-Yes. MR. TURNER-Okay. Is there any other concerns, the Board's got? Okay. I'll now open the pub1ic hearing. 39 PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JIM HAGAN MR. HAGAN-My name is Jim Hagan. I'm a neighbor, six or seven 10ts south of Dr. Evans. I had the opportunity to inspect his present house for a friend of mine who was interested in buying it. I wou1d agree with the app1icant. Rebui1ding it wou1d be rather far fetched. and I think that the entire neighborhood wou1d be in favor of this project. However, I do have one negative statement. I, persona11y, am against an b1acktop. My own driveway is 156 feet deep. I don't have any b1acktop on it. If I had put b1acktop, I wou1d have 1ike to have for convenience sake, but the additiona1 runoff and the upkeep and the additiona1 oi1 fi1m that you have to put on it to keep it up, I think it's one of the biggest detriments to the 1ake shores of lake George. So, if the doctor cou1d be taUed into 1eaving a11 b1acktop off, I think everybody wou1d be 100 percent for it. I'm just speaking for myse1f, however. MR. TURNER-Did you just hear what we were ta1king about in re1ation to the driveway? MR. HAGAN-No. MR. TURNER-I just suggested to Dean that if we e1iminate this b1acktop here, and he'd come in from the road this way, straight in to the garage this way, so he's on1y going to end up with 37 feet, p1us the width this way. This b1acktop wi11 a11 be gone. MR. HAGAN-I'm going to ta1k to him persona11y. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. HOWLAND-If I cou1d just say one thing, too, as far as our firm, we don't do b1acktop work. We a1ways 1eave it crushed stone anyway, but there wou1d be that for the future. MR. TURNER-In the future. Yes. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED Jl)TION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 81-1992 DEAN HOWlAND, JR. HOWLAND CONSTRUCTION, INC., Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Char1es Sicard: The practica1 difficuHy is this is a preexisting camp, basica11y, house, that's been modified. It's a two story structure, basicany an antiquated structure, which the app1icant has identified to be cost prohibitive to rebui1d. He cou1d rebui1d on the 01d footprint and not increase the size of it, but obvious1y that's not the situation here. He's agreed to move the house south to increase the setback on the north 1ine to 20 feet and diminish the setback on the south 1ine to 26 feet. He has a1so agreed to turn the garage which faces the north, the entrance to the garage which faces the north, to face the entrance towards Mason Road. Thereby diminishing the b1acktop cover which he indicates on the present drawing. The septic system is on an adjoining 10t across the road. He needs re1ief on the shore1ine of 20 feet from the 75 foot requirement. The Short EAF shows no negative impact. This is the minimum vari~nce to a11eviate the practica1 difficu1ty. There's no effect of the variance on pub1ic faci1ities or services. The app1icant has a1so stated that the existing garage and shed wi11 be removed from the property. Du1y adopted this 22nd day of Ju1y, 1992, by the fo110wing vote: AYES: Mrs. Egg1eston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pa1ing (11:12 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 82-1992 lIR-lA TYPE II WR-lA WILLIAM T. VOSBURGH OWNER: WILLIAM T. VOSBURGH GUNN lANE, OFF CLEVERDALE ROAD TO CONSTRUCT A 24 n. BY 40 FT. GARAGE 10 FT. FROM lHE NORlH PROPERTY LINE IN LIEU OF THE RE(JIIRED 20 FT. SIDE YARD SETBACK (WARREN COUNTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 12-3-4, 5 LOT SIZE: 1 ACRE SECTION 179-16 BIll ROBINSON, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT (11:12 p.m.) MRS. EGGLESTON-The Warren County P1anning Board returned "No County Impact". STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior P1anner, Area Variance No. 82-1992, Winiam Vosburgh, Ju1y 14, 1992, Meeting Date: Ju1y 22, 1992 "The app1icant intends to remove three cabins from the site and construct a 24 x 40 garage. The garage is anticipated to be 20 feet from the side yard property 1ine. The Board 40 may wish to consider whether a variance from Section 179-7 - Definition of private garage. since a private garage is limited to 900 sq. ft. The appHcant may not be aware of this and may be wining to reduce the size of the garage. A site visit revealed that there is a gravel semi-circular driveway with a treed center that would lfmit how far forward the proposed garage can be moved to minimize the need for a variance. Although after a site visit all dimensions seem accurate no scale is on the plan. The Board should discuss the setback request with the applicant. If the scale is 1:20 the proposed garage may be 14 feet from the side yard rather than 10 feet. The Board is aware of the concerns with storm water runoff in this critical environmental area. The appHcant is removing +440 sq. ft. of roof area with the cabins. The proposal is to add 960 sq. ft. of garage. The Board should discuss storm water controls i.e. placement of dry wens with the appHcant. Perhaps these types of items have already been considered since the lake George Park Commission regulations require them. The Board may want to simply have the appHcant comply with them at the time of the bui1ding permit applfcation. The criteria :for an area variance is as fonows: I. Describe the practical difficulty which does not anow placement of a structure which meets the zoning requirements. The proposed garage is limited to the south because of the driveway and trees. 2. Is this the minimum variance necessary to alleviate the specific difficulty or is there any other option available which would require no variance? The applicant win have to discuss the magnitude of the structure with the Board to determine whether a reduction in the size is reasonable. The setback is from the property which has a tree Hne and then the neighbors septic area. The variance would not appear to be a major concern to the neighborhood. 3. Would this variance be materially detrimental to the other properties in the district or neighborhood or conflict with the objectives of any plan or poHcy of the Town? The garage would be wen hidden from view so it would not be a neighborhood issue. Storm drainage could be a concern and the Board should be assured that this wi1l be dealfwith prior to a building permit being issued. 4. What are the effects of the variance on public facilities and services? None." MR. ROBINSON-I've got some drawings for you. I've got some dimensions for you. MR. TURNER-The first thing I want to know is why can't you reduce the garage to 900 square feet? MR. ROBINSON-It's going to be 900 feet. MR. TURNER-There's an addendum to the Staff Comments. "The Staff took an opportunity to review the tax maps of the appHcants property (map attached). The appHcant has the abi1ity to utilize lot 5 for his garage. This would minimize the storm water concerns on the lake shore property and Hmit the permeabiHty issues. This may also negate the necessity for any variances." MR. ROBINSON-Here's your new drawings, and what I'm showing you here is, first of an, it's not 24 by 40. There's a cut off section there which needs to be cut out. With 10 foot setbacks, which is what we're asking for, we still need to cut out a section of the garage to get the cars by, and that's why this section here is cut out, and that was in the plan. I just don't think, when the person measured the 24 by 40 they saw it. What I have for this little section here was 10 by 20, and what we're going to do is make it 10 by 18, and that'll make it exactly 900 square feet. MR. TURNER-Yes, it was there, right there, but they didn't see it. You're right. MR. ROBINSON-Here's the cut out. It's right inside this little foggy section here. There's a cut out there. Those Httle dotted lfnes go around to get the driveway around. This drawing that you have right now is to scale. It's one inch equals 16 feet, and with this placement, we have 14 feet without tearing down an the trees and an that nonsense, and there's a slope here. We're figuring $10, $15,000 at least to change all this, to put the driveway over here. There's a circular driveway, which is the only way to get in and out is to have a way to circulate. They also park cars over here. So, if you park cars over here, and you move this over, your rear ends are touching already before you get out of the garage. MR. SICARD-Back out of the garage. MR. ROBINSON-Right. I've got, here's a picture of the garage in the spot where it would comply, and it doesn't work. So, my list that I wanted to talk about tonight is. MR. TURNER-You eliminated it, right? MR. ROBINSON-My list? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. ROBINSON-No. MR. TURNER-I think you did. It sounds a lot better than when I talked to you the first time. MR. ROBINSON-We've got 900 square feet, and I think we've got the right placement. MR. TURNER-Okay. 41 MR. SICARD-What's the outside dimensions now? MR. TURNER-It's going to be 900 square feet, period. He can make it. MR. ROBINSON-It'll be 900 square feet, no more. MR. TURNER-That includes the overhang. MR. ROBINSON-We'd like to have a front overhang of 13 inches to match the houses, the camps that are there. The back we're not going to have an overhang on, to comply with you, but we would like to have a 13 inch. The front you can see. The back is in the woods. The front should have an overhang for getting in the garage, and if you make it any narrower, you can't get a car in and walk across the front of it. Twenty four feet minus two six inches wall, which would be 23 feet, plus a 20 foot car, and if you put a bicycle in front of it, you can't walk by it, because they're retired now. They've got a bicycle, a motorcycle and a snow-blower that goes along the front, to get everything inside. MR. TURNER-Put them in the shed across the road. You're going to move the cabin over there, right? MR. ROBINSON-The 10 by 10. MR. TURNER-Yes. Are you going to make that a shed? MR. ROBINSON-That'll be a shed. MR. TURNER-Put them in the shed across the road. MR. ROBINSON-It'll be a raised shed, just for putting things like. MR. TURNER-Put a ramp. I did that with mine. MR. ROBINSON-We would like to have that 13 inch overhang. MR. TURNER-All right. Give us the dimensions of what the garage is. Give us the dimensions of what you're going to have. MR. ROBINSON-It will be 24 feet, plus 13 inches for that overhang. That's 25 feet one inch. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. ROBINSON-If you can't approve that, we'll take the 24 feet, but we'd like to have it, and the other direction is 40 feet in the back. The shop end, which is the east end, has been reduced to 18 feet, then it cuts back 10 feet, as it shows. MR. TURNER-Forty feet. This is twenty four, right? MR. ROBINSON-And this is 18 feet. MR. TURNER-This is 18 right here. MR. ROBINSON-Yes. It cuts back that way 10 feet. MR. TURNER-This is 14 here? MR. ROBINSON-Yes. The overhang won't impact on the cars going by, nor on people. At six feet high, they're at eye view looking through property. One of our big concerns, too, is to be able to come to Gunn lane. From Gunn lane we'd like to be able to just see through the property without having a garage in the middle of the property. I think we're accomplishing that by keeping it cut back in to the 10 foot setback. MR. TURNER-That tree line that's to the south, that's going to stay there, right? MR. ROBINSON-The tree line to the north is not, I don't think there's one tree that has to be removed. I think there's nothing at all that has to be removed there, because there's an existing building. MR. TURNER-Right, but from Gunn lane, you're going to be looking right down hill anyway, quite a bit. MR. ROBINSON-Yes. I think from every angle, when you look at it, when I was there, I couldn't see anything but, right there, and look around. I couldn't see a way where it would look better. It just looks such a natural spot for it. The existing camp is within three feet of the line, the one on the water. It's three to eight feet from the line. MR. TURNER-The one where you've got it marked four feet? 42 -./ I ---- MR. ROBINSON-Yes. The garage is three to eight feet. The garage would be 10 feet. So, the garage would almost be farther away from the property line than the house. There isn't any trees between the two homes, but there are trees between the garage and the north neighbor's garages. Also, the north neighbor's septic system is right there. So, there'll never be a house or anything built, basically, there won't be. MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JIM HAGAN MR. HAGAN-I'm the next door neighbor to Vosburghs. I have no objection to the garage being built within 10 feet of the property line. However, I want certain things established, if the variance is issued. Number One, that the property line be established before construction is started. Number Two, that somewhere in the variance it states that at least two of the cabins will be removed from the premises, and then for the benefit or for the integrity of our zoning laws, I'd like it to be put on record that Mr. Vosburgh has proven a hardship. MR. TURNER-Okay. Do you have a survey for the property? WIllIAM VOSBURGH MR. VOSBURGH-Not that I know of. MR. TURNER-How long ago did you buy it? MR. VOSBURGH-1943. TED HANS MR. HANS-My name is Ted Hans. I live on Gunn lane, three or four doors from Dr. Vosburghs. We wrote a letter. MR. TURNER-Yes. We're going to read it. We haven't gotten to it yet. MR. VOSBURGH-The last survey that I'm aware of was in the back lot, from Catherine P. Phillips, for the whole back, and when the originally purchased by my father in '43, I don't know if it was really surveyed at that time, but the survey record reads the deed. The fence between the McIntryes, the previous owner, was established by him. with my father's concurrence. I don't believe the Town ever surveyed it at the time. The one existing stake that I know of is on the Duncan line, which is on the south side, and it's exact 100 foot tape to the fence post on the Hagan's property. So, I'm pretty sure that particular post is accurate. Where it goes from t~ere to the lake, I don't. MR. TURNER-On the north side you don't know? MR. VOSBURGH-Well, it's been there my entire life. As Mr. McIntrye established there. MR. ROBINSON-What he's saying is on the north side there is a fence that was put down the north side between them. MR. TURNER-Yes, but that doesn't mean that's a boundary. MR. ROBINSON-Yes. That fence was put down by the neighbor who used to own the property, and if that doesn't work, if there's a survey necessary, I'm sure we can. MR. TURNER-We've got to know the proper setback. You might have more than what you think you have, or you might have less than you think you have. MR. ROBINSON-Well, we'll put it 10 feet from the property line. You can put th~t in writing. We'll put it 10 feet from the line. I think that's what you're looking for, and that's what we'll do. MR. VOSBURGH-Mr. Hagan had it surveyed in '77 and I think he knows where it is, but ours was back in '43. MR. ROBINSON-There is a survey in '77 that we can look up. MR. TURNER-All right, as long as you can identify where it is. MR. ROBINSON-Yes. If we can find the pins, ·we'll use them. If we can't find the pins, we'll have a surveyor put them in. 43 1-,\ /-, '-- MR. TURNER-Okay. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED CORRESPONDENCE MRS. EGGlESTON-A telephone conversation from a Dr. Wens, very much objects to the proposa1. Too many buildings and constant traffic. A letter from Mrs. Theodore Hans, "As neighbors of Winiam T. Vosburgh and his family on Gunn lane, Cleverdale, Mr. Hans and I wish to express our favor of his project to construct a garage on his property. We are sure their undertaking will only enhance the entire neighborhood." And a letter from the lake George Association, signed by Kathy Vilmar, Director land Use Management, "The lake George Association, lGA, would like to briefly comment on Area Variance Application Number 82-1992, submitted by Mr. Vosburgh. to construct a two car garage on property in Cleverdale. A few land owners in the vicinity of the project have contacted the lGA with their concerns about overuse of the property, overuse of the property, with regard to the large number of buildings situated on the land and the number of people who use the property. lGA would ask that the Zoning Board investigate these concerns to ensure that an use of the property and structures on the property conform Town law. ,lGA would further ask that the Zoning Board consider that this variance request is not the only alternative avai1able to the applicant. A variance most likely would not be needed if the project was scaled down in size. Scaling the project down in size would likewise enable the applicant to keep the existing driveway, trees, and character of neighborhood and property." MR. ROBINSON-I just wanted to add that probably the lGA didn't have an the details, such as the fact that we were removing the other bui1dings. Originany, years ago, those bui1dings were put on and people were concerned that they were being used for extra places for people to sleep, and that function, the Vosburghs are now living here fun time. They've sold their residence in Rhode Island, and the whole function of the property is changing right over to their domicile. There's going to be a garage. Those buildings are going to be gone, which the lGA didn't know about. MRS. EGGLESTON-How many residents are there in the household? MR. ROBINSON-Mrs. Vosburgh's mother with be with them, and so there's three of them in that northern home, and then the southern one is a camp. They have children, and everybody uses that camp. It's a big, and it works out very well. So, the use on the property, there's no rental of rooms or anything to people, and the southern buildings are going to be removed. I think the character is going to go very much toward what people ~ looking for on the lake. JIM HAGAN MR. HAGAN-Can I just add one comment? I think I agree with the applicant that the lGA was not aware of the fact that they are going to remove the cottages, but one point I left out in voicing agreement to this structure was that at least three of my neighbors have called up and asked me about this project, and their comment was. if you agree it's okay, I don't see why' anybody else should object. I don't want to identify the neighbors, because I don't think that's right, but being the closest neighbor, the one who's being infringed upon, but also the three other neighbors have commented that if I agree it's okay, it's okay with them too. tlJTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 82-1992 WIUW T. VOSIIJRGH, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Charles Sicard: The applicant has mitigated one request on his variance in that he win construct a 900 square foot garage. He's also identified the fact that he will remove the cottages that exist on the property from the property, placing one across the road on lot 5, which win meet the side 1fne setback. He's also agreed to establish the relevance of the north property 1fne, as to where it is. I would grant him relief of 10 feet from the 20 foot side yard setback. The practical difficulty being that' on the property there are existing trees and there is a drive. a circular drive, and if he was to move it over the 20 feet, he could not complete the turn in the drive and exit the property. Also, the land slopes toward the lake quite a bit right there. I think he's addressed the issue as far as the stormwater runoff. although the roof on the garage is going to create some stormwater runoff. This is the minimum variance to aHeviate the specific practical difficulty. It appears there is no other option available. This would not be detrimental to other properties in the district or neighborhood. The immediate neighbor, Mr. Hagan, to the north, has approved of the variance relative to some of the items that we have addressed in this approval. The garage is well hidden from view, so it won't become a neighborhood issue. There's no effect on pUblic facilities or services. Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Paling (11:43 p.m.) 44 USE VARIANCE NO. 70-1992 TYPE: UNLISTED LI-lA JOHN AND SUSAN WIACEK OWNER: OOROlHY & FRED HULL CORINTH ROAD TO LOCATE AN ABOVE GRWND POOL IN A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ZONE. (WARREN CœNTY PlANNING) TAX MAP NO. 137-2-2 LOT SIZE: 100 FT. BY 150 FT. SECTION 179-26 SUSAN WIACEK, PRESENT (11:43 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior P1anner, Use Variance No. 70-1992, John & Susan Wiacek, Ju1y 10, 1992, Meeting Date: July 22, 1992 "The app1icant wishes to 10cate an above ground swimming pool on a residential 10t in an LI-1A zone. The 10t is surrounded by the Carey Industrial Park and bounded on the east by Garey Road. The 10t has been owned by the current owner since 1984. This apptication was reviewed with, regard to the criteria for a use variance. I. Is there a reasonable return if the land is used as zoned? The lot is 100 x 150. The zoning is LI-1A. The current use is residentia1. The cost of purchase of the 10t and removal of the structures for a tight industrial use would not appear logical given the 10t size. 2. Are the circumstances of this 10t unique and not due to the unreasonableness of the ordinance? This is a smaU residential 10t surrounded by a sea of tight industrial uses. The 10t is unique because of its size and 1ocation. 3. Is there an adverse effect on the neighborhood character? The addition of an above ground pool wiU not adversely affect the neighborhood." MR. PARISI-I'd like to add something, if I may. This type of use is already proposed to be changed under the Zoning Ordinance, just so that you're aware of it. After August 24th, this would simply be an allowed use. Putting a pool in wouldn't require a variance or a site pIan review. MRS. EGGLESTON-It's already in existence, this pool, isn't it? MR. PARISI-It is in existence. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, waiting wouldn't hinder anything. Should we give the variance? MR. TURNER-You said that a pool will be allowed, run that by me again, Bob. MR. PARISI-Okay. The way the Ordinance is being amended, customary accessory uses in residential zones, including an above the ground pool wiU be an aUowed use in the light Industrial zone. Currently, it's not, and that's why they're here for a variance, and in addition, under the current system, they even require site pIan review. That, of course, is also being abolished. MR. TURNER-I understood you to say something different. That's why I asked you to repeat it. MRS. EGGlESTON-WeU, I would think, I mean, they're using it. It's there. Should we go through the formatity even? MR. TURNER-WeU, it's been advertised. Just grant it and let it go, because no matter what, there's no houses around the place. They're the only house there. Okay. Do you care to make a comment. MRS. WIACEK-No, because we are the only house there. MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COJIENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PARISI-Another comment that I wanted to add was that it appears that the pool went up in conformance with the normal regulations that would apply to residential zones. I wanted to make that clear. MR. TURNER-Has the deck got a gate on it? MRS. WIACEK-Yes. MR. TURNER-locked? Is it locked? MRS. WIACEK-Pad 10cked. MR. PARISI-And it's in the rear of the property. MR. TURNER-Yes. Okay. A motion's in order. MRS. WIACEK-I wanted to teU you that we have 50 feet aU the way around, protection from the woods. I hope to keep it green. I saw to that with Mr. Carey and mY lawyers. 45 MR. TURNER-Yes. There's a 50 foot buffer. MRS. WIACEK-A 50 foot buffer. flJTION TO APPROVE USE VARIANCE NO. 70-1992 JOHN I SUSAN WIACEK, Introduced by Joyce Eggleston who moved for its adoption, seconded by Theodore Turner: To construct an above ground pool in a light Industrial zone. The 10t is surrounded by larger parcels and used by light Industry uses. Therefore, the 10t is unique because of its size and 10cation, and these circumstances apply just to this 10t, not the surrounding properties, which make it unique. There wouldn't be an adverse effect on the neighborhood character, and there is no neighborhood opposition. The Short EAF shows no negative impact. Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Paling (11:55 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 78-1992 TYPE II SFR-lA lŒ_lH M. NOBLE MRY FRANCES ICUSIŒ OWNER: SAlE AS ABOVE LOT 586, FOX HOLU* ROAD TO ENlARGE EXISTING GARAGE, IN EXCESS OF lHE 900 SQ. Fr. PERMITTED FOR PRIVATE GARAGE. TAX MP NO. 77-1-1.41 LOT SIZE: 37,826 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-7 DEFINITION, PRIVATE GARAGE KENNETH NOBLE, PRESENT (11:55 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Area Variance No. 78-1992, Kenneth Noble, July 21, 1992, Meeting Date: July 22, 1992 "The Board should review this pIan. The staff does not believe that the pIan is for an expansion of garage over 900 sq. ft. The pIan shows a second residential garage with some accessways between. Neither garage is over the 900 sq. ft. threshold. The definition of a private garage is singular. The plans show two garages. The Board may wish to consider if this development is for a second accessory use rather than for a garage over 900 sq. ft." MR. TURNER-Would you answer that question? MR. NOBLE-Sure. Eventually we do want to expand the house, but the garage is for, my niece lives with us now. She has her car there, and I also have a valuable car that I want to keep on the premises. Yes. Eventually, I do want additional living space. MR. TURNER-So, the front garage will be converted, down the line? MR. NOBLE-Yes. MR. TURNER-To living space? MR. NOBLE-No. We need four inside for vehicles. There would be bedrooms above the existing garage. MR. SICARD-Are these vehicles being left outdoors now, Mr. Noble? MR. NOBLE-One, yes. One is out there. MR. TURNER-That's the commercial vehicle? MR. NOBLE-No, it isn't. MR. TURNER-The one outdoors is not the commercial? MR. NOBLE-It's mY niece's car. MR. CARVIN-How do you pIan to get the cars through? MR. NOBlE-I would expand the driveway. MR. CARVIN-To come around? MR. NOBLE-To come around. MRS. EGGLESTON-Where all this beautiful green space is. 46 MR. NOBLE-There would be a driveway right through there. MRS. EGGLESTON-How many members are there in your household? MR. NOBLE-Now, five. MRS. EGGLESTON-How many are adults with vehicles? MR. NOBLE-Three. MR. CARVIN-What is all the internal doors and things? MR. NOBLE-This is a room, right now, that has laundry to it. We would access into this garage. This is stairs that go down it. MR. CARVIN-Okay. Will there be a basement under this? MR. NOBLE-No. It would be on a block. MR. CARVIN-Well, is there a basement under this? MR. NOBLE-No. There isn't. The basement goes down. This is the main living area. MR. CARVIN-Okay, but this is all new construction here, right? In other words, you're coming? MR. NOBLE-This would be right here, yes. MR. CARVIN-Your basement starts here? MR. NOBLE-That's correct. MR. CARVIN-There must be steps to the basement inside some place? MR. NOBLE-Right there. MR. CARVIN-Right in here. MR. PARISI-I'd like to make a comment. You realize that if you wanted to make any interior alterations, other than a garage, such as upgrading the living room, you'd need a building permit for an interior alteration, or you might face the same difficulty as another applicant. MR. NOBLE-All I'm doing is I want a space for four family vehicles. I can't put them in a 900 foot garage. I don't want house them elsewhere. I want them on the property. I want access. I could do it. It would be an inconvenience to have it straight through, but I could do that. Driveways could go on setbacks. Eventually I'm going to expand my house. I want a larger house. MR. CARVIN-This is a two story house now, is it? MR. NOBlE-A two story house. This roof's tower than this roof. MR. CARVIN-Okay. Well, I'm just looking at the downstairs measurement, here. What, roughly a 70 by 28? MR. NOBLE-That's just under 900 right here. MR. CARVIN-Okay, and is there a full upstairs here? MR. NOBLE-From here over. MR. CARVIN-Just from here over. MR. NOBLE-Right. Eventually, I want to come up top. MR. CARVIN~I guess to cut to the point, here, do you know what the square footage of the house is right now? MR. NOBLE-Yes, 2700. MRS. EGGLESTON-This issue about two garages. MR. TURNER-I differ with that opinion completely, because the intent was that there would only be a 900 square foot garage on one piece of property. That's all they could fit. 47 MRS. EGGLESTON-That's what she's saying. MR. TURNER-I know it, and that's what I'm saying. MRS. EGGLESTON-You agree with this then? MR. TURNER-Abs01ute1y. So, what you've got is you've 1516 square feet of garage space? MR. NOBLE-That's right. MRS. EGGLESTON-That's bigger than my house, no. My house is about 1600 square feet. MR. TURNER-But that wasn't the intent of the Ordinance. MR. NOBLE-Our neighborhood does have garages that are 1arger, and in Queensbury there are garages that are 1arger. MR. TURNER-Yes, but they put them up before that. MR. NOBLE-When did the Ordinance go into effect? MR. TURNER-'88. MR. NOBLE-It cou1d be. I want to safe1y house four cars on premises. I don't want to park cars in the driveway. MRS. EGGLESTON-As I 100ked around your neighborhood, I saw two car garages with, Jike, something up over the top, p1ay rooms, rumpus rooms, 1iving areas, whatever you want to ca11 it. Frank1y, I didn't see two separate garages. MR. NOBLE-The garage has nothing to do with the actua1 Jiving space. Don't mix the two up. I want to house four cars, four fami1y cars, safe1y. That's exact1y what I want to do. MRS. EGGLESTON-See, my prob1em with this is we wou1d be setting a precedent within the neighborhood. We cou1d conceivab1y have everybody in here for. MR. TURNER-The previous app1icant, Mr. Vosburgh, he was 60 square feet over, and I said no. We thought we were doing a heck of a jOb when we increased them to 900, because we knew there was a concern. A 10t of peop1e had two cars. A 10t of peop1e have other vehic1es, and we thought 900 square feet was more than adequate. MR. NOBlE-I assumed the reason for the variance was so that peop1e that, if I owned a hardware store, or an asphaH company, or a construction company, wou1dn't park, wou1d have huge garages to park commercia1 vehic1es, to have them on their property. What I'm saying, doing it around the back where it's very discreet, where I can keep. MR. TURNER-I know, but it's setting an awfu1 precedent. MR. CARVIN-Is this part of a p1anned deve10pment? Is there a Fox H0110w? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Are there any covenants that you're aware of? MR. NOBLE-There isn't. I'm not sure, with the house. I'm not a rea1 good neighbor as far as the names of everybody, but if you go back towards Fox Farm Road, up four houses is a detached garage, and that house was bui1t since '88. So, I mean, they must have come in and gotten a variance. MR. TURNER-Yes, but is it over 900 square feet? MR. NOBlE-Definite1y, the second garage is. MR. TURNER-We11, then somebody missed the boat. That's a11 I can te11 you. MR. NOBlE-We11, so do I go find out why he got a variance and appea1 it? MR. TURNER-He didn't get a variance, that I ever remember. MRS. EGGLESTON-Not since I've been on this Board. That was 1ate '88. MR. TURNER-Not that I can remember. 48 -- --:::,' MR. CARVIN-We11, this house was bui1t, how 10ng ago? MR. NOBlE- '87. MRS. EGGLESTON-And when did you buy it? MR. NOBlE-'87. I bought it the same year that it was bui1t. MRS. EGGlESTON-We11, I think if you wanted extra 1iving space, do you have any now, over the existing garage? MR. NOBLE-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, you conceivab1y cou1d put it there, right? MR. NOBlE-I cou1d do that. MRS. EGGLESTON-like the rest of the neighborhood. Then it wou1d conform. MR. NOBlE-I cou1d do it here, too. I mean, I can come back this way. I mean, it's not a prob1em. I just want to house four cars. Nine hundred square feet isn't rea11y practica1 if somebody has an antique car that they don't want to keep off premises, that they fee1 are va1uab1e and they want to protect that. Nine hundred square feet is very unreasonab1e. MR. TURNER-I can understand that, but I know peop1e that have antique cars that don't keep them at their home. They do put them off their property. MRS. EGGLESTON-As I said, my prob1em is the precedent we'd be setting in the neighborhood. MR. TURNER-That's what I have a prob1em with. MRS. EGGlESTON-I don't know how you cou1d say no to, other peop1e cou1d conceivab1y change the who1e character. MR. NOBLE-In mY opinion, the hardship is that they are cars. They're vehic1es, not the va1ue of the car. I need the space. I have a niece that 1ives with me. She has a car. I don't want to have her parking the car outside. I mean, we're going to have to do that, if that's what it comes down to. I think that takes away from the neighborhood, more than buHding a garage, that we're going to keep back around the corner, with a sma11 driveway 1eading to it. MR. TURNER-Yes, but you might end up se11ing the house, five years down the road, too. You don't know, and then we're stuck with it. MRS. EGGLESTON-See, Ted, then what we have to 100k at is that it's not another garage. This is a second accessory use. Is that what lee's saying, that it isn't even, actua11y the variance is not for a garage? MR. TURNER-It's for a second accessory use, which is a garage. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll open a pub1ic hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COJIENT MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 78-1992 lCE_lH M. NOBLE MARY FRANCES ICUSIOR, Introduced by Char1es Sicard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Fred Carvin: There are no effects of the variance on pubHc facHities and services. This request seems to be the minimum relief necessary to a11ev1ate the specified practica1 difficu1ty, 1eaving cars out. There's been no objections by the pub1ic. This variance wou1d not be detrimenta1 to the other properties in the district or neighborhood or confHct with the objections of any p1an or poHcy of the Town. Du1y adopted this 22nd day of Ju1y, 1992, by the f0110wing vote: AYES: Mr. Carvin, Mr. Sicard NOES: Mrs. Egg1eston, Mr. Turner ABSENT: Mrs. Pa1ing 49 r~ --..) c MR. TURNER-It's denied. A tie vote is denied. (12:11 a.m.) MRS. EGGLESTON-I'd 1ike to ask Bob a question. Is there any way that something can be done, so that we don't have this type of an agenda? I, frank1y, do not work good this time of night. MR. PARISI-A11 of these peop1e that are on the agenda were put in by Mrs. Crayford. Some of the peop1e we were ab1e to remove, and have sti11 been removed. So far, I want you to know, I don't have one app1ication for one variance, outside of the items that you've tab1ed for next month, so far. MR. TURNER-Okay. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFUllY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman 50