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1992-11-17 ---- J ~ '-" QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 17TH. 1992 INDEX Area Variance No. 84-1991 Peter J. Valenti 1. Area Variance No. 111-1992 Thomas J. McGovern Dan Furlong 2. Area Variance No. 110-1992 Richard Broome 10. Area Variance No. 115-1992 Paula and Louis Granger 12. Area Variance No. 116-1992 Robert F. & Barbara J. Mallaney 15. Sign Variance No. 117-1992 U-Haul Co. of NY. Inc. 17. THESE ARE NOT OFE'ICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. -~~ \- ....... QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 17TH. 1992 7:38 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT THEODORE TURNER. CHAIRMAN JOYCE EGGLESTON. SECRETARY THOMAS PHILO MARIE PALING FRED CARVIN CHARLES SICARD MEMBERS ABSENT CHRIS THOMAS PLANNER-ARLYNE RUTHSCHILD STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI OLD BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 84-1991 TYPE II WR-1A PETER J. VALENTI JAY ROAD. GLEN LAKE TO REBUILD THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF APPROVAL ON NOVEMBER 20. 1991. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 43-1-5 LOT SIZE: 12.035 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-60B-15-C. 179-79 B & E SECTION 179-79 PETER VALENTI. PRESENT MRS. EGGLESTON-And we have a letter requesting an extension of that variance. from Peter and Lisa Valenti. "We received an area variance from the Queensbury Zoning Board on November 20th. 1991. to reconstruct our home on Jay Road. Unfortunately. due to unexpected financial difficulties. we have not been able to commence construction of our home. We are requesting an extension of our variance for an additional term of one year from its expiration date. My wife and I hope to have the funds necessary so we could begin construction this spring." MR. TURNER-Okay. Mr. Valenti. would you care to add anything to that? MR. VALENTI-No. not at all. MR. TURNER-Is everybody familiar with the case? Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. TURNER-If there's no Correspondence. I'll make a motion. MOTION TO EXTEND AREA VARIANCE NO 84-1992 PETER J. VALENTI. Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption. seconded by Charles Sicard: Jay Road. Glen Lake. to rebuild the single family dwelling. as per the motion of November 20th. 1991. All setbacks and conditions will be adhered to with respect to the approval that was granted. Extension is for a period of two years. MR. TURNER-Will give them one year. Will that fit your plan? We'll give you two if you want it. I'd rather give you two than have you come back here. 1 ) -- MR. VALENTI-Two would be wonderful. just in case one's not enough. MR. TURNER-All right. I'll grant you an extension for two years. Duly adopted this 17th day of November. 1992. by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Carvin. Mr. Philo. Mrs. Eggleston. Mrs. Paling. Mr. Sicard. Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas (7:41 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 111-1992 TYPE II MR-S THOMAS J. MCGOVERN DAN FURLONG OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 134 INDIANA AVENUE TO CONVERT THE SIX BEDROOM HOUSE (ONE FAMILY DWELLING) INTO A TWO FAMILY. TWO BEDROOM APARTMENTS. TAX MAP NO. 127-11-1 LOT SIZE: 7.000 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-18 DEBORAH MCGOVERN. THOMAS MCGOVERN. AND DAN FURLONG. PRESENT (7:41 p. m. ) MRS. EGGLESTON-This was tabled from October 28th. 1992. for the applicant to give us more detailed information as to dimensions and distance between the house and the shed and other bUildings on the property. and we also asked them to look at the possibility of not having two uses on the property. We left the public hearing open. MR. TURNER-Did they get their figures added up right? MR. PHILO-We just did it. It totals up. MRS. EGGLESTON-Does it? They all add across? MR. PHILO-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Both ways? MR. CARVIN-As best as we can determine. MR. TURNER-So. that's right. All right. I left the public hearing open. Do you want to respond to this new information? MRS. MCGOVERN-We'd just. more or less. like to stand with what we've already said. except. as far as the shed. in a future date. coming before you. it a garage for the tenant. Debbie McGovern. MR. TURNER-Okay. What's your position as to the storage building right now? MRS. MCGOVERN-The storage building. right now. just to leave it. like you said. and eventually make it a two car garage for the tenants. when we can afford it. at a much later date. MR. PHILO-There won't be anything stored in there. you're saying? Is that what MR. TURNER-It won't be used as a storage building. MRS. EGGLESTON-As a distribution center. like. for all their property. It would just have one use on the property. It would be a two family home. MR. CARVIN-I still have a hard time with these dimensions. because you've gone from a 27 2 wide house down to 23. Now. if you take a look at your kitchen and your bedroom plans. you're going to go from an 11 foot wide bedroom down to a 9 foot. I guess. and a dining room that's going to go down to about 9 foot. 2 MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. the house is an old house. The footprint of the structure is not changing. is it? MRS. MCGOVERN-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. So. that shouldn't change. the footprint of the structure. MR. CARVIN-Are these the existing. 1. 2. 3. or is this going to be the proposed. I guess. These are the proposed. aren't they? MRS. MCGOVERN-Yes. The pictures are proposed. MR. CARVIN-What are the bedrooms now? small. They must be extremely MRS. MCGOVERN-One bedroom downstairs is very small. MR. CARVIN-It is. MRS. MCGOVERN-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Did you go back. yourselves. and measure this building? MRS. MCGOVERN-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-So. the first one where you were. where you had the. MRS. MCGOVERN-I did not change the floor plans. My understanding was you wanted to know the footage of the house and stuff. I didn't go back and remeasure the inside. the floor plan. So. they would not line up. MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. because they don't match your new dimensions. MRS. MCGOVERN-Right. My understanding was you wanted me to remeasure all of the outside. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MRS. MCGOVERN-And I did try and get a survey map for you. and I had no luck. Mr. Dean gave me the name of the gentleman who did the survey. and he would not either give me a copy or sell me a copy because he did not do the survey for me. He thought it would not be right. and I went. there was none on public record. So. we had to measure it again ourselves. and we did go by the standards. MR. TURNER-Did you find the survey pins? MRS. MCGOVERN-Yes. we did. MR. TURNER-Did you find all four corners? MRS. MCGOVERN-Not all four. no. MR. TURNER-Which ones did you find? MRS. MCGOVERN-Behind the shed. the storage shed there. found one there, and there was one on Indiana that we found. MR. TURNER-This corner here? MRS. MCGOVERN-It would be on the corner of Mr. Nelson's side. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. SICARD-Mr. Chairman. I don't know if it's a standing rule or anything. but isn't there a tax map to every piece of property in the Town of Queensbury? 3 ( MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. SICARD-My objection to this is, you know, anybody can draw a map, and I'm not saying it isn't correct, but we have no verification where the outside measurements of this piece of property is. It could be five or ten feet any way, and I find it hard to accept this, when you can come right up here and get a tax map. MRS. MCGOVERN-I did ask for a tax map. They told me that it would only give me the dimensions of the property, 60 by 100. It would not give me the dimensions of the house and stuff. I went all over, to all your Queensbury buildings, and nobody could give me anything. MR. SICARD-There must be a deed to this property or something signifying these dimensions. I don't think you can transfer a piece of property without accurate dimensions. I've never heard of this. I could draw the map and say, well, this is where it is, and we could get eight or ten feet either way, here. You could draw the map, or anybody could. We have no verification that these are the exact dimensions. That's what I'm looking for, a tax map, or a professional map, or whatever. MRS. EGGLESTON-It would seem to me that if it was sold under a tax sale, by Warren County, that they should have to provide a survey of the property. MR. SICARD-This could go either way 10 feet, and nobody would know where it is. MR. PHILO-Every piece of property that I've bought from the bank, they had to have a survey. MR. SICARD-I thought it was. Jim, what do you think? JIM MARTIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MR. MARTIN-Usually, yes. if it goes through any sort of bank financing. a survey has to be done. MR. SICARD-I don't know how you could transfer a piece of property without the correct dimensions. MR. MARTIN-Well, if they're buying it in cash, or something like that, then they could, without a survey. MR. SICARD-They've been taxing the property. County or the Town ought to have a tax map. So, that even the MRS. MCGOVERN-I still don't understand. What I was told, it was a 60 by 100, but that was not what you wanted. You wanted the measurements of the building, and I don't understand any tax map that would tell the measurements of the building, the house, how many feet. MR. SICARD-No. I'm concerned about the dimensions of the property, the outside dimensions of the property verified by a tax map, or a survey, or something. MRS. EGGLESTON-Jim, would you have a copy of a tax map in that location, that you could maybe get for us? Could you do it now? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-You have a book with all those properties in there. If we could take a look at that. MRS. MCGOVERN-Well. I showed this one. You said you wanted the building. This shows on here that it's a 60 by 100. 4 L MR. SICARD-The lot? MRS. MCGOVERN-You said that wasn't enough. measurements of the building. You wanted all the MRS. EGGLESTON-We do want. we need both. MR. PHILO-The measurements didn't add up. MR. TURNER-That was the problem. MR. PHILO-You had more house than property. MR. TURNER-What you have there is a copy of the tax map. MRS. MCGOVERN-Right. Now we have gone back. that you told me how to measure it, we have gone back and measured them. but this gentleman has said that he wants proof that it's a 60 by 100 lot. MR. TURNER-That's a copy of the tax map right there. Is it not? MRS. MCGOVERN-Well. I don't know. I showed it to you last time and you told me that you did not want it. You wanted one with the buildings on it. MRS. EGGLESTON-I think we need both. If we didn't make that clear. MR. TURNER-Here it is right here. Charlie. Here's the tax map. MRS. EGGLESTON-What does it say it is. Ted? MR. TURNER-Lets see. 127-11-1. MRS. MCGOVERN-It's this one right here. MRS. EGGLESTON-How much is it? MR. TURNER-One hundred by sixty. MR. SICARD-It's the 100 on South? MRS. MCGOVERN-Yes. The 60 is on Indiana and the 100 is on South. MR. TURNER-Do you have anything else you want to offer? MRS. MCGOVERN-No. MR. TURNER-All right. we'll get that going. Let me open the public hearing. and then I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPEN JEAN MOONEY MRS. MOONEY-My name is Jean Mooney. as you know. I'm here only to reinforce my feeling about this two family. That's a 60 by 100 lot. I live on a 90 by 100 lot, in a one family house. and I'm crowded on mY lot. I mean. it is so small. and I can't think of the guy's name. but a few years ago I was in attendance at a variance meeting where a man asked to put up four family houses. and I don't even know if the area was zoned for two family or not. but the response from the Board was. it didn't fit in that neighborhood. Well. our area may be zoned for two family. but not one on top of the other. on that tiny little lot. in our neighborhood. I just don't feel that people in my area or myself. in general, should suffer the real estate deficit that we're going to take to enhance someone else's income. I just can't justify it. I don't understand. if the Town says that you need 5.000 feet of space to occupy one family. what we are supposed to believe the other family is going to do when they're 4.000 feet short. I just 5 don't know where they're supposed to live or. they can't even operate in 1.000 square feet. and I haven't even seen a floor plan of the house. but you've argued, just then, one of the rooms is extremely small. What is that? Room for a twin bed? The inside living quarters are not my concerned. I'm concerned with what the outside is going to look like and what it is going to do in our area, and I can understand the McGovern's lack of funds, to be able to do things in an expeditious and proper way. I can understand that. because we built a house, and I know how expensive it is, but if you don't have the funds to do things properly, like get it surveyed, and do all the other things that are necessary, what is it going to be like after the variance is approved and the people are there? I mean, is it going to be some rundown eyesore, and that's not a reflection on the McGoverns or anybody else, but I mean, face it, if you don't have the money now, and you're taking an old one family and converting it to a two family, when it is not big enough. it's going to get rundown. There's just no way around it. MR. CARVIN-Ted, is there any requirement. as far as living space? MRS. MOONEY-I don't mean living space. What I should have said was 5.000 square feet. period. MR. TURNER-Yes, 850 square feet. MRS. MCGOVERN-It's 750, we have more than enough, per apartment. MR. TURNER-For the duplex. yes. I'm talking about single family. MR. CARVIN-Okay, but what about multi unit, something like this. I mean, is there any guidelines there? MR. TURNER-Yes. Seven hundred and fifty. two family, each unit 750 square feet. MRS. EGGLESTON-But, Ted, for a two family, isn't the lot size, too, supposed to be 10,000? MR. TURNER-Ten thousand. five thousand per unit. MRS. EGGLESTON-And this is only a 6,000 square foot. MRS. MOONEY-That's what I meant. I tried to find out what that was based on, and they need so many thousand square. I mean, I didn't know anything about thousand square feet, but so many feet from the park. so many feet from their garbage. I tried to find out what that 5,000 feet was based on, so that I could come up here and speak intelligently, and I could not get an answer. All I know is that if you're saying it takes 5,000 square feet, and you've only got six, when you pile two families in an area that it barely big enough for one. you're going to have a problem. MR. PHILO-You may not know what you're talking about, but you hit the nail right on the head. young lady. MRS. MOONEY-I just. really, our area was such a depressed, repressed area that I hate to see it happen again. I mean, I plan to spend the rest of my life there, and I don't want to live in the middle of a hell hole. I don't have anything against the McGoverns whatsoever. I wouldn't care if it was Christ Almighty sitting there trying to get the variance. I would still feel the same way. I just don't think it's a good idea. There are people like myself who have put every nickel we own into our properties because we intend to stay, and I am very concerned about the area. and anybody who comes up in our area and tries to do something to turn it the other way, I'm going to be right back at you. I'm not going to go away. I just feel very strongly about it. I have a young child, and my mother is old. She can't defend herself, and my kid can't either. I'm the only one they have to look to, and I'm not going 6 away. I feel very, very strongly about it, and it's going to be a problem. I could go on all night. MR. TURNER-Okay. opposition? Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard in PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. TURNER-Any Correspondence? discussion. Okay. I'll open it up for MR. PHILO-I'm very pleased with the way they're doing things in West Glens Falls, and I admire the lady for coming up here, saying what she did. Last week we had about six or seven neighbors against it, this week we've got one. I don't know if it's because they couldn't make it or what. MRS. EGGLESTON-Ted, when you take into consideration the shed, like we're talking, really, we're looking at maximum variance request, which we kind of frown on. We ask people to look for minimum relief. Would you agree with that? MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, actually, if you left the shed there, that takes away, really, from this, the two family dwelling, am I right? MR. TURNER-It takes away from the exterior. There's no doubt about it. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. So, are we really at a maximum request, here, do you think? MR. TURNER-Well, you're right up there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MRS. PALING-Ted, if they took the shed down, does that add to the total square footage, does it change? MR. TURNER-Nothing's going to change the square footage. MRS. PALING-But I mean, it would give more land for the house. MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, I really have to, for myself, I think it was about a month ago I talked about the west end, and if you'll remember, and I said about, it seems like they're trying to rebuild the area. They're trying to make it better. A lot of things have been improved over the past two years, and I said I thought that sometimes we were saying, well, what harm does it do, it's the west end, and I really didn't like that attitude from the Board, and we talked about that. I gave a speech about that, and I do hate to just add to what maybe could be deterioration of the area, for the people who are trying to build it up, and I'll say the same as Mrs. Mooney. I live in the west end, and I don't live there because I have to. I live there because I want to, and I'd like my neighborhood kept nice, and I appreciate her concerns that she'd like her neighborhood kept as best as possible. MR. TURNER-Well, that doing a lot up there, nicer, and they take everybody else. was my remark the last time, that they are and they are making everything look a lot a lot of pride in their home, just like MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I think when somebody buys a piece of property, whether it be tax sale or whatever, they have an obligation to see what they can do with it, and to know beforehand what you can do with it, and what kind of money you can get out of 7 it. if you're going to use it as an investment. and a rental property and so on and so forth. I don't think it can be at the expense of the neighbors. MR. TURNER-No. MR. SICARD-Well. I can agree with her. that she's protesting it because it is a crowded corner in there. I'm very familiar with it. and it is a very crowded corner in there. I don't think this is going to relieve it any. It's just going to increase it. If you have two families in there. It's the type of an area where you don't know who's going to move in. and someone could move in with three or four children. not that I'm against them. I've got five. So. you know how I feel about them. MRS. EGGLESTON-But each family with three or four children. MR. TURNER-But the other side of the coin is that if there was 10.000 square feet there and they bought the piece of property. the duplex would go there. and there would be two families there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. then they'd be entitled. wouldn't they? MR. TURNER-They'd be entitled to it then. MRS. EGGLESTON-Maybe the neighbors wouldn't object if there was 10.000 square feet because there would be room for parking. There would be room for the kids to play on their own lot. There'd be room for the whole. MR. SICARD-It bothers me. It doesn't help the situation because they're practically absentee landlords. and I'm familiar with that si tuation. I have care of a couple of places with absentee landlords. but I certainly can appreciate these people that own it. their feelings and buying it and hoping to develop it into something. A single family house. it wouldn't bother me a bit. because basically. even though it's a big house. there are very few people that have that many children. I'm a little concerned about that. and the people that live up there. we have to put ourselves in their place. and also the people that are going to replace them in that area. coming in there. this area. the whole area in itself. when we open it up to mobile homes. we increased the population considerably. because there's a lot of people that moved in there where they couldn't get housing elsewhere. So. they bought mobile homes and they got in there. even though. with five. six. and seven children. As I say. I'm not against having children in that area. but that area specifically seems to be overcrowded over any other part in Queensbury. for the simple reason that they opened it to the mobile homes. and the people in this group can afford mobile homes. and they've improved it. That area up there has improved 75 percent. 100 percent in some places. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. SICARD-And it's increasing. and if we're ever going to clear that area. we've got to 'help these people. because they need the help. They've gone as far as they can and spent as much money as they can improving their homes. and this isn't only around Central Avenue and this particular area. it's all through the area. We have a lot of new mobile homes in there now. and they've improved the quality. There's some bad areas up there. and I'm familiar with them. I go through there real often. So. it's a difficult situation. and it's difficult for us to say no to such a thing as this. but I feel that it's. MR. MCGOVERN-Could we have another opportunity to speak. or are we all done? MRS. MCGOVERN-You saw our pictures. We don't make dumps. She said herself we have nice places. It's going to be brand new inside and 8 out. when we get done. You know our places are nice. MR. MCGOVERN-I'm up in Glens Falls just about every day. My mother lives on Manor Drive. MRS. MCGOVERN-We're not absentee landlords. You saw our pictures. MR. TURNER-All right. I know. you never looked into this piece of property. as to what you could do with it. before you bid on it. did you? MRS. MCGOVERN-We checked that it was a two family zoning. but we didn't know the square footage. but we have more than enough square footage for each apartment. MR. TURNER-Well. we're not questioning that. MRS. MCGOVERN-Everything is Code. We're doing it brand new. We're not ruining the neighborhood. MR. TURNER-We understand that. but. it has nothing to do with. MRS. MCGOVERN-We're not trying to put a pool outside our back door that you trip into. MR. TURNER-All right. Can I ask you a question? We're talking about density of the lot. We're not talking about the house. although the house is included on the lot. but we're talking about density. You're asking for a considerable variance. You're only allowed minimum relief. not maximum. minimum. MR. FURLONG-Well. the only thing I'm afraid of. if we put it back into an eight bedroom. two downstairs. the people that we're going to rent to are going to wind up renting rooms out. and we have no way to stop it. I come up here to try and make business and try and make a nice house. Now. what I'm going to have to do is make this back into an eight bedroom. two downstairs. and a renter who's going to bring in a load of people. MRS. EGGLESTON-I do think you. as landlords. can control how many people live in the house. Now. I have four rental properties. They're not mine. but for my employer. that I handle. and we're very careful about the number of people that are in the house. and we watch it very closely. So. I think you. as landlords. can control how many people are in the house. MR. TURNER-If you rent it as a duplex. you're going to make them sign a lease. aren't you? MR. MCGOVERN-Yes. MR. TURNER-Okay. MR. MCGOVERN-But eight bedrooms? Old timers had large families. MR. TURNER-I understand. but you have to neighborhood is trying to accomplish there. bag. understand what the You bought a pig in a MRS. MCGOVERN-Sir. you don't. the people in the neighborhood. four houses on both sides of Indiana Ave.. from our house. have no objection. You saw the paper. This woman lives on the very last radius of getting a note. She was the last one to get a note. She is way down on the other block. The people all around us have no objections. They're all stopping in saying how good it looks. They're happy for us. They come over all the time and look. MRS. EGGLESTON-I think Mr. Nelson right next door to you was concerned about. 9 \-. MRS. MCGOVERN-Mr. Nelson was concerned about parking because Mr. Nelson wants to sell us that whole lot. You don't realize that? We offered to buy a piece from him. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. and the invasion on his property. but I think he doesn't want people parking on his lot. want kids playing over on his lot. Well. no. He doesn't MRS. MCGOVERN-There's parking there. No one's going to park on his property. MR. TURNER-All right. We can go on all night and argue about it. All right. Motion's in order. We could argue about it all night. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. we could. MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 111-1992 THOMAS J. MCGOVERN DAN FURLONG. Introduced by Joyce Eggleston who moved for its adoption. seconded by Fred Carvin: The applicant is requesting maximum relief in an already congested area of the Town. I do believe it would have a negative impact on the neighborhood. and the applicant really hasn't demonstrated that he could not make a reasonable return on the property if it were rented as a one family dwelling. and by demonstrating. I mean. physical numbers. There is neighborhood opposition to this request. and in my opinion. it would be detrimental to the neighborhood. I believe this is a self imposed hardship in that the applicant had the obligation. when he purchased the property at a tax sale. to know what he could and could not do with the property. Duly adopted this 17th day of November. 1992. by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Philo. Mrs. Eggleston. Mrs. Paling. Mr. Sicard. Mr. Carvin. Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas MR. MCGOVERN-Can we get a copy of this hearing? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MRS. RUTHSCHILD-They will be sending you the resolution. MR. MCGOVERN-Okay. because I'd like to get it. MR. MARTIN-Yes. You'll have a copy of that. (8:13 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 110-1992 TYPE II WR-1A RICHARD BROOME OWNER: HERBERT ROBERT TYRER BIRDSALL ROAD. GLEN LAKE FRONTAGE REMOVAL OF REAR SHED AND FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A SECOND STORY EXTENDING ORIGINAL STRUCTURE 8 FT. TO THE REAR (REMOVAL OF 4 FT. OF BANK). (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 40-1-13 LOT SIZE: 0.12 ACRES SECTION 179-79(2). 179-60 E2 RICHARD BROOME. PRESENT (8:13 p.m.) MR. MARTIN-There's just one item here that the Board needs to consider. and we've been over this with the applicant. I just wanted to bring to your attention the wording as it was listed in the paper. which is the same as on your agenda. removal of rear shed and for construction of a second story extending original structure 8 ft. to the rear (removal of 4 ft. of bank). That is not exactly an accurate description of the variance request in this. The Board should decide if they want to hear this as it was described or have it re-advertised. 10 MR. TURNER-What are we supposed to hear? MR. MARTIN-Well, it would have been better off to bring to light the 50 percent expansion in the description. Although the proper Section is cited, 179-79(2), it was not advertised that way, and this describes, somewhat, the extent of the addition, but not specifically the 50 percent expansion. So, you need to decide if you think this description is adequate or if you'd like it re- advertised. MRS. EGGLESTON-It would be my opinion, in this particular case, that 50 percent expansion would mean a lot to a neighbor, where this might not. I mean, that's a lot of expansion, on this size of a lot. MR. MARTIN-We had a mix up within the office from typing to what actually was, written to typing from what actually went in the paper. MR. TURNER-There's nobody here. That's what you put in the first time, is what you've got right here. MR. MARTIN-Right. I believe we have the consent of the applicant for a further tabling, if need be. MR. TURNER-Okay. We'll make it one more time then. ought to advertise it correctly. I think we MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Yes. That way we're covered, and he's covered. If he gets it, then he's all set. MR. MARTIN-We have the SEQRA was taken care of by the Planning Board. MR. TURNER-Right. MR. MARTIN-That's one last snafu here. MR. TURNER-Yes. Especially around Glen Lake, or any Critical Environmental Area, a 50 percent expansion is usually. MR. MARTIN-Well, that's why I wanted to bring it to your attention before we. MR. TURNER-All right. I would move to table. MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 110-1992 RICHARD BROOME, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Charles Sicard: Application will be re-advertised correctly, as presented. Duly adopted this 17th day of November, 1992, by the following vote: MR. SICARD-Mr. Chairman, could I ask a question? Will this be as soon as possible, or when will this be? So, he can be back here before spring. MR. MARTIN-I think in our haste we were making every effort to coordinate the SEQRA Review by the Planning Board, your hearing, and then he had to go up for site plan as well, after this. So, we were trying to get him all taken care of tonight so he could go on to the Planning Board next week and be done with it, but in our haste, these are the types of mistakes that happen, and. MR. SICARD-Can we get him on the December meeting? 11 MR. MARTIN-Yes. We'll list him on the first December meeting. for sure. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-And you'll make the Planning Board meeting thereafter. in the same month. So. he'll know by Christmas. MR. BROOME-My only concern is that I've made an offer on the property. MR. SICARD-Is this going to effect your offer or anything. this delay? MR. BROOME-Well. I haven't sold my house either. filled either of the contingencies. but I've somewhere. So. got I haven't to start MR. MARTIN-It just seems to have been one of those applications where anything that could go wrong has. We've apologized to him already. MR. BROOME-I'm only going to be upset if somebody comes along and makes me an offer on my house. and I'm not able to move. MR. MARTIN-Well. in actually days. he's looking at probably 30 days from this date. that the whole process will be completed. MR. BROOME-We can live with that. AYES: Mrs. Eggleston. Mrs. Paling. Mr. Sicard. Mr.Carvin. Mr. Philo. Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas (8:22 p.m.) NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 115-1992 TYPE II LI-1A PAULA AND LOUIS GRANGER OWNER: PAUL H. AND MARY D. NAYLOR CORNER OF CORINTH AND DIVISION ROADS APPLICANT IS PROPOSING AN ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE. THE STRUCTURE AND USE ARE PREEXISTING NONCONFORMING. THE ADDITION DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIRED 50 FT. SETBACK. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 147-1-11 LOT SIZE: 100 FT. BY 330 FT. SECTION 179-79A(1) SECTION 179-26C PAULA AND LOUIS GRANGER. PRESENT; PAUL H. NAYLOR. PRESENT (8:22 p.m. ) STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 115-1992. Paula and Louis Granger. Meeting Date: November 17. 1992 (Tuesday) "Applicant is proposing to construct a twelve foot by twenty-four foot (12' x 24') addition to the rear of an existing residence. Parcel is preexisting and nonconforming in the area. lot width and side yard setback. CONFORMANCE WITH AREA/USE REGULATIONS: Applicant is seekinq relief from the followinq Sections in the Ordinance: 1. Section 179-26C - Corner lots are required to conform with the front yard setback. which in this case is fifty feet (50'). Applicant is seeking twenty-eight feet (28') relief from this section. 2. Section 179-79A(1). which states that a nonconforming use or structure may be enlarged or rebuilt so long as all setback provisions of the chapter are met. 3. Section 1 79-79D. any nonconforming use may be increased only by a variance granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals. Describe the practical difficul tv which does not permit placement of a structure which meets the zoning regulations. The practical difficulty which does not permit placement of the addition which meets the zoning regulations is 12 ') -- that this parcel is a corner lot and is preexisting and nonconforming. Corner lots are considered to have two (2) front yards and as such need to conform to the stated front yard setback. which in this case is fifty feet (50'). Is this the minimum variance necessary to alleviate the specified practical difficulty or is there any other option available which would require no variance? The minimum variance is necessary to alleviate the specified practical difficulty as there is no other way to expand the house which would require no variance. Would this variance be detrimental to other properties in the district or neiqhborhood or conflict with the obiectives of any plan or policy of the Town? The variance would not be a detriment to the district or neighborhood as the project is consistent with the character of the residences in this neighborhood. What are the effects of the variance on public facilities or services? It would appear that the proposed project would not have any effect on the public facilities or service. Is the minimum relief necessary to alleviate the specified practical difficulty? It would appear that the minimum relief is necessary to alleviate the specified practical difficulty as setback non-conformance is preexisting and a nonconforming structure or use may be enlarged so long as all setback provisions are met and any nonconforming use may be increased only by a variance granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals. STAFF COMMENTS: Staff has no further comments about this project." MR. NAYLOR-My daughter has a petition here. north. south, east. and west, of people that think we're the greatest thing in the west end. MRS. GRANGER-These are all my neighbors. MR. TURNER-When you took the measurements. the house ~ 22 feet from the property line? MRS. GRANGER-Right. MR. TURNER-The addition's going to be 24 long. is that correct? MRS. GRANGER-Yes. MR. TURNER-And you've got, what is that, 43, from the addition to the rear line. from the proposed addition to the property line at the rear, 43 feet? MR. GRANGER-To the side it's 43. something. To the rear. it's 200 and MR. TURNER-Well. I know. but I'm looking at it from Division Street. you're on a corner. calling it rear because I'm You've got two fronts because MRS. GRANGER-Right. MR. TURNER-That only comes to 89 feet. and you've got 99.80 in the front and 100 feet in the back. How does that come out? MR. GRANGER-It's 53. not 43. MR. TURNER-It's 43 on the map. MR. GRANGER-That was changed. MR. TURNER-Not on mine. MRS. GRANGER-I had to bring up all the copies, because they said it didn't. I made up copies of it. MR. TURNER-You've got a nine foot breezeway between the house and the garage? 13 ') ( MRS. GRANGER-Right. MR. TURNER-Okay. So, that makes it 101. That isn't right either. It's only 100 feet in the back. It can't be 101. They've got a foot too much here some place. You've only got 99.80. MRS. EGGLESTON-Did you do this map? MRS. GRANGER-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-You did this map yourself? MRS. GRANGER-Well. I had the survey map, and then I had to go out and measure all my garage, and all that, the original survey, then they wanted the measurements of the house, the garage, and the, the original survey is the original, what it is right now. That's copied from that, but I went out and measured with measuring tape. MRS. EGGLESTON-Something's wrong. We've got to have the map right, because we could be giving the wrong thing, wouldn't we? MR. TURNER-Well, it's only the setback from the front. MR. PHILO-I know the dimension off the road is right, because I checked it. MRS. GRANGER-From the end of my garage to my thing here, that would be 101.8, total, with what I got on the new one here. MR. PHILO-Something's wrong there, Paul, because both offsets, I checked them myself. MR. GRANGER-Twenty one feet is probably only 20 feet. measuring from a fence, going downhill. She was MR. TURNER-I'm not so concerned about the measurement being off in the back as I am of it being off in the front. As long as the front one's right, that's all I care about, the street side, because that's where the· request for the relief is, from the street. No matter what, you're only going to end up with what's on that map. MR. CARVIN-You're just going to make that 12 foot addition flush to the house, right? MR. TURNER-That's all. MRS. GRANGER-It's going to hook to the back of my house. MR. NAYLOR-The house has been in the same spot for 50 years. It hasn't moved. MRS. EGGLESTON-Is this a rental property? MRS. GRANGER-It's my dad's second house. MR. NAYLOR-I bought it 25 years ago for a cash flow, and the cash flow has gone the other way. MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. TURNER-This is a preexisting nonconforming lot. The zone got changed. It requires 50 feet, two fronts. 14 MRS. EGGLESTON-They need it on both streets, don't they, Ted? MR. TURNER-Yes, right. They've got 58 on Corinth Road, and then they have to have 50 from Division Road, 28 feet of relief. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 115-1992 PAULA AND LOUIS GRANGER, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Philo: And the relief they are seeking is Section 179-26C, corner lots. In this case, it's a 50 foot setback because of the Light Industrial zone. This is a preexisting, nonconforming lot and home of record, and in order to add to the house, the applicant needs 28 feet of relief. I would grant the 28 feet of relief. The practical difficulty which does not permit the placement of the addition, in reference to the Zoning Regulations, is the fact that the house is located on the lot in the position it's in, on a corner lot. This is the minimum relief to alleviate the specified practical difficul ty. There is no other option which would not require a variance. The variance will not be detrimental to the District or the neighborhood, as it is primarily residential, and has been. There are no adverse effects on public facilities or services, and a nonconforming structure, as the Ordinance states, may only be enlarged so long as all setback provisions are met and any nonconforming use may be increased only by a variance granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals. This approval is contingent upon approval by the County Planning Board. Duly adopted this 17th day of November, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Eggleston, Mrs. Paling, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Philo, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas (8:42 p.m.) AREA VARIANCE NO. 116-1992 TYPE II MR-5 MOBILE HOME OVERLAY SINGLE ROBERT F. & BARBARA J. MALLANEY OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 11 INDIANA AVENUE FOR PLACEMENT OF A ONE-CAR DETACHED GARAGE THAT WOULD ENCROACH ON THE REQUIRED 50 FT. BUFFER ZONE REQUIRED ADJOINING THE LI-1A ZONE. TAX HAP NO. 127-8-14 LOT SIZE: 120 FT. BY 88 FT. SECTION 179-72C JOHN MALLANEY, REPRESENTING APPLICANTS, PRESENT (8:42 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 116-1992, Robert F. & Barbara J. Mallaney, Meeting Date: November 17, 1992 "SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant is proposing to build an eighteen foot and three inch by eighteen foot and six inch (18'3" x 18'6") unattached garage on his property. Proposed placement of said garage intrudes on a fifty foot (50' ) buffer required between residential site and commercial/industrial zones. Proposed project is located on preexisting conforming lot whose principal structure is nonconforming in it's front yard and buffer zone setback. CONFORMANCE WITH USE / AREA VARIANCE REGULATIONS: Applicant is seeking twenty two feet (22') of relief from Section 179-72C, Buffer Zones (p. 18046), which states that any residential use that abuts any commercial/ industrial zone, at the lot line or at a street right-of-way, shall provide at least a fifty-foot (50') buffer zone from said industrial/commercial zone or street right- of-way. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. Describe the practical difficulty that does not allow placement of a structure which meets zoninq codes. Proposed placement of garage intrudes into the required fifty-foot (50') buffer at the rear of the property by twenty-two feet (22'). 2. Is this the minimum variance necessary to 15 alleviate the specific practical difficulty or is there any other option for placement of the proposed structure that would require no variance? Applicant believes that there is no other option for placement of the structure that would require no variance. 3. Would this variance be detrimental to other properties in the district or neiqhborhood or conflict with the ob1ections of any plan or policy of the town? The variance would appear not to be detrimental to other properties in the district as the proposed project is consistent with the character of the neighborhood. 4. What are the effects of the variance on public facilities or services? It would appear that the variance would not effect public facilities or services. 5. Is this request the minimum relief necessary to alleviate the specified practical difficulty? Proposed placement of the garage would require the minimum variance to alleviate the specified practical difficulty. STAFF CONCERNS: Staff has no further comments regarding this project." MR. MALLANEY-I am John Mallaney. MR. CARVIN-John. is there an open lot next to you? MR. MALLANEY-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Okay. Do you own that. or who owns that. do you know? MR. MALLANEY-My mother owns that also. She owns right from South Avenue. up to three lots before Central. MR. CARVIN-Okay. No intent of using that lot at this point. do you know? I mean. for housing or anything like that? MR. MALLANEY-Not right away. MRS. EGGLESTON-The authorization for agent isn't signed by the applicant. MR. TURNER-He signed himself. the only one. His mother has to sign it. She's MRS. RUTHSCHILD-I thought he was the agent for his mother. MR. TURNER-He is. but she has to give him the permission. MR. PHILO-Can we do this with the contingency that she signs it? MR. TURNER-Not really. MRS. EGGLESTON-It should have been signed by the mother or the father. giving him permission to come here on their behalf. MR. TURNER-He represented at the last variance request. and I'm not sure. at that point. since then. whether it was signed by him or her. but I think his mother signed it. for the pool. MR. MALLANEY-For the pool? I signed it. MR. TURNER-Well. you're not supposed to do it. She's supposed to give you permission. MR. MALLANEY-They told me I could sign it. That's what I'm saying. Every time I come up here. Ted. every time it's different. MR. TURNER-It's not different. MR. MALLANEY-It ~ different. I signed it the last time. I can't sign it this time. MR. TURNER-No. you can't. If I had known it the last time. you wouldn't have been able to speak. I wouldn't have let you speak. We'd have tabled it until you got the permission slip from your 16 mother. You can't represent her, because she didn't authorize you to represent her. MRS. EGGLESTON-See, that's only being fair to your parents. I mean, a kid could come up h~re and ask anything on behalf of their parents, and their parents might not even know about it. So, if the mother wants you to do this, she's the owner of the property. She's looking out for their interest. Either your mother or the father has to sign it, not you, if they can't come themselves. MR. MARTIN-Is your mother home tonight? MR. MALLANEY-My mother works. She works three to twelve thirty at night. MR. MARTIN-Where does she work? MR. MALLANEY-C.R. Bard. MR. MARTIN-Can you go down and have her sign this? MR. TURNER-Go down and have her sign it, and we'll put it on last, and we'll hear U-Haul, and you come back and we'll hear you. Then it'll be done. MR. MARTIN-I understand your aggravation. taken care of tonight. I'm trying to get you MR. MALLANEY-Yes. MR. TURNER-Take this down and have your mother sign it right here, John. MR. MALLANEY-Okay. MRS. EGGLESTON-May I ask the Staff if they'd look these over as we get them, so we don't get into this predicament again? I mean, this one tonight maybe we could help with, but another one we might not, and they wouldn't be too happy. Okay? Thanks. MR. TURNER-Okay. We'll move this to the last, and we'll hear Sign Variance No. 117-1992. (8:50 p.m.) SIGN VARIANCE NO. 117-1992 TYPE II CR-15 U-HAUL co. OF NY. INC. OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 112 MAIN STREET REMOVE EXISTING SIGN ON ONE SIDE OF PROPERTY AND ERECT NEW SIGH ON OTHER SIDE OF PROPERTY AND AT THE SAME TIME REQUEST A 10 FT. SIDE YARD SETBACK VERSUS CURRENT ZONING OF 25 FT. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 135-1-4 LOT SIZE: N/A SECTION: SIGN ORDINANCE STEVE FERRIS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT (8:50 p.m.) STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Sign Variance No. 117-1992, U-Haul Co. of NY, Inc., Meeting Date: November 17, 1992 "SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant is proposing to remove an existing sign on the right side of the front of the property and place it on the left side of the front of the property. Proposed site for the new sign will be the second parking space in the customer parking lot. Remaining parking spaces will still comply with the required number of parking spaces for the business. (1/1000 sq. ft. of gross leasable floor area. 4100 sq. ft., plus one appropriately sized for each company vehicle). The business will have eight parking spaces (8) plus two (2) handicapped parking spaces. CONFORMANCE WITH SIGN REGULATIONS: Applicant is proposing to place the new sign on the left side of the front of his property, twenty-five feet (25') from the front line of the property and ten feet (10') from the left side of the property line. Applicant is seeking fifteen feet (15') relief from Section 140-6B (2), which states that a one sided 17 ',,--- -""..-' freestanding sign with a surface area of sixty-four square feet (64 sq. ft.) shall have a setback of twenty-five feet (25') from the property line. This request would apply to the left side setback of the sign. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. Are there special circumstances or conditions applying to the land or signs which do not apply generally to the neighborhood? The special circumstances are related to the fact that the only practical place for the sign to be placed and comply with the Ordinance is not readily visible to customers from the road. 2. Is reasonable use of the land possible if the Ordinance is complied with? If the proposed sign complies with the twenty-five foot (25') setback, it would encroach on the current area used by customers for egress of the property. 3. Is there an adverse effect on the neighborhood character or public facilities? The change of the placement of the sign from one side of the property to the other side would appear not to have an adverse effect on the neighborhood character or public facilities. 4. Are there any feasible alternatives? The placement of the current sign is not visible as sited because of the canopy of the bordering Mobil Cart business. It is the principal reason for changing the placement of the sign to the other side of the property, and is the only practical place to locate the business sign. 5. Is the degree of change substantial relative to the Ordinance? The variance would appear not to impose a substantial change to the neighborhood or be detrimental to the public welfare. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: The staff has no other comments regarding this project." MR. TURNER-Do you have any further comment? MR. FERRIS-That about covers it. I was before the Board, I believe, two years ago, and we had several meetings. The only question that arose at that time, I think through Mrs. Eggleston, was, were we going to do anything with the existing sign, in terms of adding any space to it, and at that time we weren't going to do anything. We wanted to see how the flow of the property would work, give it some time, and since then we've taken down the canopy structure that was there, removed the gas tanks, redesigned the lot so the water would flow more to the street, instead of our neighbors, Cumberland Farms, things of that nature, and this is basically the final step. We're trying to just finish the property. MRS. EGGLESTON-What will the sign do to the Cumberland Farms sign, their visibility from? MR. FERRIS-They're only about, I don't know what their measurements are, but we're going to still be about eight feet behind them. MR. TURNER-Yes, they're behind them, according to the drawing. MRS. EGGLESTON-So, you're not going to obstruct anything of theirs? MR. FERRIS-No. position. They're still going to be, they're in excellent MR. CARVIN-Can I ask who you are? MR. FERRIS-I'm Steve Ferris with U-Haul Co., out of Albany. MR. PHILO-I went up and looked at that, Ted. If he keeps it on the same line as the other Cumberland, like that, I don't have any objection. MR. TURNER-No. He's not. He's going to be behind them. MR. FERRIS-I would be behind them. canopy was there, the original sign. that. We put that up before the I guess everybody here knows MR. TURNER-Yes. 18 \ --<"""' MR. FERRIS-And things happen. We were going to put the canopy up after we put our sign up, originally. MR. PHILO-What I'm saying is, Cumberland Farms. MR. FERRIS-Right. We'll be over to the other side. We'll be behind there. Their view will be totally unobstructed, as they currently sit. What we're trying to do, and I know this isn't highly professional, but here's Cumberland Farms sign here. This is where our sign would be. In terms of the depth, it's the only way I could give you any scale at all. MR. CARVIN-Is the sign going to be the same height off the ground? MR. FERRIS-A little bit lower. It's about three feet lower, and your requirement for signs is 65 total square feet. We're 63. So, it's actually smaller than we have there. MR. CARVIN-Yes. .You have a hardship. I mean, if you're driving towards Glens Falls, the Mobil station does obscure it. MR. FERRIS-The east to west view is fine, and we're not arguing that. Unfortunately, the majority of our customers are west to east. MRS. EGGLESTON-I've got one thing to ask you, since I live in that neighborhood, and I use that Mobil station all the time. As you pullout of the Mobil station, you park your trucks right on the very end, if you're going to come down, you park your trucks in here like this, so if you're pUlling out of the Mobil, you've got to get out into the traffic before you can see down the road. MR. FERRIS-When you're trying to go any direction? MRS. EGGLESTON-When you want to go right, coming out of the Mobil, and you want to go right, you're parking your vehicles right up to the left, right where the current, and you have got to nose out into Main Street from the Mobil to see around the end of these, except they have them pointed right up in here, Ted. MR. FERRIS-Yes. We've been told to stay at least the 30 foot back. So, you're right. We discussed that before. MRS. EGGLESTON-You haven't been doing that. MR. FERRIS-I saw it tonight. I was just up there. I was up there tonight to see if they're, because we agreed that we would keep them 25 to 30 feet back at the sign, and further back. MRS. EGGLESTON-They're right out on the point. MR. FERRIS-You've been by there a lot. MRS. EGGLESTON-I go by there a lot. MR. FERRIS-We've been empty with equipment in that area for quite some time. That's just very recent. MRS. EGGLESTON-But you're not going to do that anymore, right? You're going to tell him not to do that anymore? MR. FERRIS-He knows. equipment. We've been pretty empty up there with MR. SICARD-Could I say a word, Mr. Chairman? How about lighting? Are you going to have the sign lit? MR. FERRIS-That's correct. MR. SICARD-When will it be lit? The working hours, or all night? 19 --~ MR. FERRIS-We typically leave it on until midnight at all our locations. We shut them down after midnight. MR. SICARD-Just to make sure, it will not be flashing, will it? MR. FERRIS-Not a flashing. MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. TURNER-Motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE NO. 117-1992 U-HAUL CO. OF NY. INC., Introduced by Charles Sicard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Fred Carvin: There hasn't been any objections here tonight. There seems to be no effects of the variance on public facilities and services, and there seems to be no other option available which would require no variance. There is 15 feet of relief from the east side of the property line from Section 140-6(b)(2), having a setback of 25 feet from a property line. Duly adopted this 17th day of November, 1992, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Paling, Mr. Sicard, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Philo, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas (9:03 p.m.) MR. TURNER-Okay. We'll get back to the application of ROBERT F. & BARBARA J. MALLANEY AREA VARIANCE NO. 116-1992. Jim, just for the record, the previous application for a variance on this piece of property was signed by John, about two or three months ago. MR. MALLANEY-About four months ago. MR. TURNER-Yes. Send her one, have her sign it and put it in the file, so it's a matter of record, because he said he signed that one, too. MR. MARTIN-Sure. MRS. EGGLESTON-Did you put the pool in? MR. MALLANEY-Not as of yet. We'll put it in the spring. MR. CARVIN-When I was by the property, I believe you, do you have the footings in already, for that garage? Okay. So that's the location, just kitty corner off the mobile home? MR. MALLANEY-Yes. It has to be that way to meet the side. MR. CARVIN-Side setback. MR. MALLANEY-That' s right. My original intention was to try to square it with the mobile home, but to get it 10 feet from the trailer, I've got to set it kitty corner with the back of the lot. MR. CARVIN-Okay. I've got trees, I guess it's interference. Are those trees going to give you any interference? 20 MR. MALLANEY-No. There's eight feet between those trees and the back of the garage. MR. CARVIN-Okay. This has nothing to do with the garage, except that I counted at least seven trucks and a backhoe. Are those all operational trucks, or are they just? MRS. EGGLESTON-Unlicensed. MR. MALLANEY-They are unlicensed, yes, but they're not, they all run. They all move on their own power, and shortly they are going. It's just a matter of selling them off. MR. MARTIN-Well, I can tell you, need a building permit on this, that. if you come in, you're going to and when they go by to inspect MR. MALLANEY-The garage is already built. MR. MARTIN-Okay. MR. MALLANEY-It's being moved there. inspected by your office already. All I need is, it's been MRS. EGGLESTON-Where is it? MR. MALLANEY-The garage right now is at Morris Combs, on VanDusen Road. Whitney Russell inspected it. He said it's okay to move and all that. MR. MARTIN-I'm just saying that when the enforcement officers come by and they see all those unlicensed vehicles there, they're going to ask you to get them out of there. MR. MALLANEY-Like I said, they are going. I just can't take a truck that I paid $1,000 for and give it away. I'm sure none of you sitting there could. MRS. EGGLESTON-But you can't run a sales out of there, either. MR. MALLANEY-I understand that you can't have that many vehicles. MR. MARTIN-You're only allowed one. MR. TURNER-What we're getting to, John, is you can't run a business out of that house. MRS. EGGLESTON-What are you going to use the garage for? MR. MALLANEY-Just personal use. MR. TURNER-And you can't keep those vehicles there unlicensed. You're only allowed one, and that's fine if you're going to move them. That's great. MR. MALLANEY-One per lot, or? MR. TURNER-One per residence. MR. MALLANEY-One per residence. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-Okay, and you said the garage was going to be for personal use. I mean, is it just personal storage of, residential vehicles? MR. MALLANEY-One car. yes. It's barely big enough for one vehicle, 18 by 18. You can get it in there. There's not much room around it. 21 MRS. EGGLESTON-Is there a lot between the trailer and the corner, because there's more than 33 feet in there. MR. MALLANEY-There's a 90 by 100 lot there. MRS. EGGLESTON-And does your mother own it? MR. MALLANEY-Yes. MR. TURNER-What's her intention as to that lot? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, like violate the back buffer. used for? put th~ garage so you don't have to Could you, what's that lot going to be MR. MALLANEY-She's not quite sure just yet, but she doesn't want to use 9,000 square feet of land. MR. MARTIN-I think that the garage would have to be positioned on this lot, because the garage is an accessory structure, and therefore it has to be accessory to a principal building. So, they couldn't place it on the other lot. MR. CARVIN-Yes. I had originally asked the question, my concern was that the other lot was going to be sold and somebody else puts a structure there, and then you've got a real crowded situation. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARVIN-But if that's not the intent. MR. MALLANEY-No. In actuality, the lot where my trailer is and the lot next to my trailer, on both ends, there's a yellow house at one end and the lot that you saw that's empty, are all mine. They just aren't deeded to me. They're still deeded in my mother's name. So, it's just a matter of time, getting the deed switched over. They're never going to be sold. MR. PHILO-Because one looks like it's been there several years. Backhoes and things back there look like they've been there a long, long time. MRS. EGGLESTON-The parked vehicles look like they're old. MR. MALLANEY-They haven't been there over a year. MR. PHILO-Long enough to have brush grow up around them, and grass. MR. MALLANEY-You can ask this man right here. He helped me put the trailer in there. They haven't been there over a year. MR. PHILO-Just try and get them out of there, okay. MR. TURNER-He's ~ to get them out of there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Will you be watching that, Jim, if we let this garage in, that the vehicles will be removed? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. PHILO-If we let this garage in there, are you going to get them out of there? MR. MALLANEY-It's my intention to get them out of there, regardless of the garage or not. I was self employed. These were vehicles that were making my living. Now, I am not self employed anymore, as you can obviously tell. I'm working for someone else. I can't give away stuff that I've paid for. Once I sell them, they will be gone, but they're already paid for. They are in the paper. 22 '-~ MR. PHILO-What if you don't sell them for two years? MR. MALLANEY-No. They're not going to be there that long. MR. MARTIN-I understand your interest to get your money back out of them. but they should be removed. MR. MALLANEY-Right. Also. I understand the Town's point. too. in not wanting vehicles allover. It's not a junk yard. I understand that. MR. PHILO-Well. it's in the Ordinance. right? MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-Do you have an alternate site for storage of those while you're selling them? MR. MALLANEY-Not really. MRS. EGGLESTON-They didn't have For Sale signs on them. MR. MALLANEY-They're in the paper. MR. EGGLESTON-There are no For Sale signs on them. though. are there? MR. MALLANEY-No. there is not. MRS. EGGLESTON-So. we didn't realize that they were being sold. MR. MALLANEY-No. but they are in the paper. MR. TURNER-Okay. public hearing. Any further questions? Okay. I'll open the PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. TURNER-Motion's in order. MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 116-1992 ROBERT F. & BARBARA J. MALLANEY. Introduced by Charles Sicard who moved for its adoption. seconded by Thomas Philo: The applicant is proposing to build an 18 ft. 3 in. by 18 ft. 6 in. garage. While it is true that it requires a 50 foot buffer. there seems to be no other option available which would require no variance. There's been no objections to the request. There are no effects of the variance on public facilities or services. This grants them 22 feet of relief from the buffer zone. Duly adopted this 17th day of November. 1992. by the following vote: MR. SICARD-Is there any way that you can avoid that building into that buffer line? MR. MALLANEY-There's no way possible. MR. SICARD-Well. I would try not to cut anymore than you have to. of that existing buffer. MR. MALLANEY-Yes. You see. actually. I'm only 22 feet. really looking for 10 feet. As I was explaining to them. 100 feet deep. I have an original deed that says it's All your tax maps say 88. There's really only 10 feet. I'm only my lot is 100 feet. 23 "...... ~ ~~ MR. SICARD-That's much better. AYES: Mrs. Paling. Mr. Sicard. Mr. Carvin, Mr. Philo. Mrs. Eggleston. Mr. Turner NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Thomas (9:16 p.m.) MR. TURNER-Jim, that conversation we had out there about Ruecker? That was 10/16/85. I've got the minutes. To construct a one family dwelling on a lot less than one acre. in which the dwelling is proposed at 50 foot setback from shoreline in lieu of the 75 foot requirement. It's the same piece of property. He can't come back unless he's modified it or changed it. MRS. EGGLESTON-Jim. can I ask you. is an enforcement being done on the garage. over on Twin Channels Road? MR. MARTIN-I can look into it. MRS. EGGLESTON-I mean. the guy's had permission to keep one piece of heavy equipment in his yard. He has five pieces of heavy equipment stored in the yard. Nothinq in the new garage he built. There's a backhoe. MR. TURNER-Is that Light Industrial? MRS. EGGLESTON-No. That's Waterfront Residential. MR. MARTIN-What road was that. again. Joyce? MRS. EGGLESTON-Twin Channels. That's the one where Parisi did the job of the Zoning Board. and negotiated with him. and gave him permission to have his oversized garage and to store one piece of heavy equipment in his yard. and he has a backhoe. two dump trucks. a flat bed trailer. MR. MARTIN-What's the gentleman's name? MRS. EGGLESTON-Rossi. Jim Rossi. MR. PHILO-He agreed to retain that bank where it was coming down. and it was going into the road. it was washing out. remember we went and looked at that? MRS. PALING-Yes. MR. PHILO-He hasn't done that either. MR. MARTIN-Was there any time frame? MR. PHILO-He said it would be done within 45 minutes after the garage was up. MR. TURNER-Who that's. now? Who are vou talking about? MR. PHILO-Jim Rossi. MR. TURNER-He never came here for anything. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. but he read the papers that we got. Actually. he was allowed to build a second garage for commercial use in a residential zone. MR. PHILO-In the existing carport. I remember this. MRS. EGGLESTON-He did open up the front of that. MR. PHILO-Well. you're supposed to open all three sides. 24 MR. MARTIN-Is this a new second garage? MR. PHILO-And he was supposed to take down the barriers around that garage. MRS. EGGLESTON-Around the carport. MR. PHILO-That carport was supposed to be open. three sides. and it's a carport. MR. MARTIN-What meeting was this approved at? MRS. EGGLESTON-It wasn't before us. It bypassed everybody. MR. TURNER-It bypassed. he made the decision. MR. MARTIN-Parisi. MR. PHILO-Parisi did. MRS. EGGLESTON-And Dave Hatin. or whoever. MR. TURNER-It would be interesting to see what documentation that Jim has got in respect to what he did there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. It bypassed the whole process. Jim. MR. PHILO-Well. I know we had it on the docket. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. we didn't have it on ours. The Planning Board. maybe. MR. PHILO-No. We were supposed to hear it. too. because I went and looked at it. MRS. EGGLESTON-No. It never came on ours. MR. MARTIN-But wouldn't the garage kick it to you guys? MR. TURNER-Yes. It should have. MRS. EGGLESTON-But they let him do it. They gave a permit to do it. Go back and read the minutes. I came before the Town Board. and I went before and objected to it because he was allowed. wi thout variance. to bui ld a second garage. oversized. and hi s property was being used for commercial purposes. He runs a pool business out of there. He's got a backhoe on the property. He's got two dump trucks. He's got a flat bed trai ler. He's got chemicals stored in his garage. and they gave him the permit for this big. commercial garage. MR. TURNER-Who gave him the permit? MR. PHILO-Parisi. MR. TURNER-Who authorized them to give him the permit? MRS. EGGLESTON-There's a conflict between Dave Hatin and Parisi. Go back and read. because I went before the Town Board and expressed my concerns that that was happening. One says one did it. One says the other did it. MR. TURNER-What was the Town Board's comment? MRS. EGGLESTON-That they would do something about it. That he would not be allowed to get away with this. but nothing's ever been done. MR. MARTIN-Okay. So. I have agreement for only one vehicle. The bank was supposed to be retained. 25 MRS. EGGLE~ iN-Look in the file. Jim. to be. ---- MR. PHILO-The carport was supposed to be opened up. MR. MARTIN-Yes. open carport. MR. PHILO-On all three sides. MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Parisi also allowed him to store empty chemical barrels on his property. after they were washed out. which is within maybe 300 feet of the Hudson River. So. he's going to wash them onto property that goes downhill to the River. The whole thing was really. ask Mr. Brandt. He's well aware of it. Nick Caimano. They all know. but nothing's being done about it. MR. MARTIN-Okay. All right. I hopefully will have something for you tomorrow night. at least find out what happened. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. Get the facts for yourself. out of the file. MR. TURNER-How can we justify sitting here and turning somebody down for an oversized garage when this happened? That's not right. MR. MARTIN-No. MR. TURNER-I have a letter. here. from a Richard Waldron. which should go in the file of Parillo's application. The only thing that I have. before I lose my train of thought. is that when I made the motion to approve the Sign Variance for Frank Collins. I didn't mean that the sign identifying the plaza. the three tier sign. would always be there. It's only there to service it's purpose now. but when he redesigns that. he has to meet the requirements of the Sign Ordinance. in respect to a plaza. MRS. EGGLESTON-But. Ted. let classified as a plaza now. businesses? me understand you. now. because it has three That's existing MR. TURNER-Yes. There's three stores. MRS. EGGLESTON-So. that changes the criteria for the sign? MR. TURNER-Yes. Under the Sign Ordinance. he's allowed a sign identifying the name of the plaza. MRS. EGGLESTON-So. really. that whole sign's got to go? He's got to conform to the plaza regulations? MR. TURNER-He's got to conform to the plaza regulations. Once that business is terminated. if he modifies that to any degree. which he told me a long time ago he was going to redo the whole thing. Now. that might not happen for five years. but when he does. then that sign comes down and he puts a sign up identifying the name of the plaza. that it is a plaza. and the name will be on that sign. and the other signs will be on the buildings. That was the intent of my motion. just to clear it up. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. all your motion did was allow that other guy to put his on there. didn't it? I don't think it said. it gave tenure or anything to. MRS. PALING-But Ted talked about it changing. whether it was in the motion or not. I don't remember. but I remember the discussion. that it would only be that way until it was designated a plaza. MRS. EGGLESTON-Jim. do you see every permit that's issued? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MRS. EGGLESTON-And you're making sure that some of these things 26 aren't happe'ning again? I'm just asking you thi s, like that garage over there? MR. MARTIN-We have now, compliance form that's put determined whether it has Board, or it can go on. every building permit has a zoning right with it, and at that point it's to come to you or on to the Planning MRS. EGGLESTON-And do YOU do that? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I have to sign off on it, but it goes through, like, Sue will take in and look at the, just the basic, technical compliance with the setback and so on, and then it will go on to Arlyne or Scott Harlicker, and then I have to sign off on it, ultimately. MRS. EGGLESTON-See, and we were embarrassed here, like, what, a month ago when we denied that Noble garage and three people, houses down the street had been given a permit for a second garage. They already have a two car garage. They were given a permit for another big two car garage, away from the house. MR. MARTIN-Well, see, I think what's happening, though, in fairness to the Building Department, is people are coming in and they're calling these storage sheds. MRS. EGGLESTON-A two car garage? Well, don't you go and look? MR. MARTIN-Yes, you do go and building permi t, if someone application, storage shed. look, puts but on even at the point of the building permit MR. TURNER-You can't give them a permit if it's a garage. MR. MARTIN-Yes, but if it's characterized as a storage shed. MR. TURNER-Yes, but tell them, lets see the plans for it. MR. MARTIN-Yes, but who's to say a storage shed can't have an eight foot door? MRS. EGGLESTON-You're not allowed more than 900 square feet of. MR. MARTIN-Not for a storage shed. A storage shed. MRS. EGGLESTON-A storage shed can't be over 100 feet without a variance. MR. MARTIN-Yes, and it needs a building permit, but. MRS. EGGLESTON-No, it needs a variance. MR. MARTIN-No. MRS. EGGLESTON-Over 100 square feet? MR. TURNER-Building permit. MRS. EGGLESTON-Building permit. side lines. Now, wait a minute. us, he had pictures. Okay, but then if it's not to the That garage that man and showed MR. MARTIN-I'm not saying that's the case, but I know, because Mr. Mabb has already been in to see me about a storage shed. MRS. EGGLESTON-He's not going to call that 40 by 60 a storage shed? MR. MARTIN-No. MR. PHILO-What's he going to call it? 27 MR. TURNER-I want to get right back to that scenario you were talking about. 40 by 60 storage shed? MR. MARTIN-No. he's not saying 40 by 60. but he may be saying 20 by 30. or something like that. MR. TURNER-All right. but there's a case. and you know about it. you know the history of it. where a 40 by 60. MR. SICARD-I think Jim previously corrected that by saying that there will be no vehicles in it. Didn't you say. earlier tonight? MR. MARTIN-Yes. We're saying no vehicles. MRS. EGGLESTON-You would give him a permit to put a 40 by 60 storage building in? MR. MARTIN-Well. not a 40 by 60. but if he's telling me a. there is no size limit on a storage shed. MR. MARTIN-I agree with you. Joyce. but I'm bound by the Ordinance. MR. PHILO-Isn't the shed supposed to be attached to another building. the proper jargon? MR. MARTIN-No. MR. TURNER-It's accessory to the principal dwelling. MRS. EGGLESTON-We denied the guy a second garage and he's going to get around that variance by calling it a storage shed. and get a permit. Is that what you're saying? MRS. RUTHSCHILD-He can't store a car in it. though. MR. MARTIN-Yes. but then it's going to become an enforcement issue. MRS. EGGLESTON-Who's going to police it? MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. TURNER-So. then I guess you better change the language of the storage shed. and say that a storage shed is X. Y. z. MR. MARTIN-Yes. You've got to tighten it up to have the storage shed language parallel what's written for garage. MRS. EGGLESTON-So you ~ put another garage on your property? MR. SICARD-No. A storaqe shed. MRS. EGGLESTON-So you call the garage a storage shed. MR. MARTIN-But when he fills out a building permit application. and it asks what i sthe application for. and he writes in there. storage shed. and signs that permit. what can we say? MR. SICARD-No vehicles. MR. MARTIN-Yes. I tell them that. I say. no vehicles. MR. TURNER-What can you say? Here's what you can say. falsely fills out that application. he's in trouble. If he MR. SICARD-But he isn't. He isn't until he puts cars in there. MR. TURNER-No. but if he falsely fills out that application. he's in trouble. MR. SICARD-That's right. 28 ~- MR. TURNER-It's right in the Ordinance. MRS. EGGLESTON-What? They're going to make him tear it down? Not on your life. MR. SICARD-Once he puts his vehicle in there. it's allover. MR. PHILO-Well. that's what he said he wanted it for. his antique cars. MR. SICARD-He did say that. but this has changed again. MR. MARTIN-This is very typical of zoning. though. MR. PHILO-What's he going to put in there? Dust mops? MRS. EGGLESTON-What is he going to store in it. if not vehicles? MR. MARTIN-Well. like those antique auto restoration guys. they have a lot of equipment. They have welders and drill presses and lathes. MR. TURNER-You can't put them in there. If he puts electrical service in there. then the building is no more a storage building. MR. SICARD-Where does it say that in the Ordinance? MR. TURNER-If he puts electrical service in there and hooks those machines uP. then he's in deep trouble. MR. SICARD-I'm hearing what you're saying. but where does it show this in the Ordinance? MR. TURNER-Very simply. He can't run a business out of there. He's in an MR zone. He can't run a business out of an MR zone. MR. MARTIN-He's not doing a business though. MR. TURNER-No. but if he does. if he puts electrical service in there. and he hooks up whatever he wants to hook up there. MR. MARTIN-All I'm telling you is it's very. and then the other gentleman. Mr. Batease. who was also denied that night. he's been in to see me now with these canvas style. arch way. portable tents. MRS. EGGLESTON-How many accessory bUildings can you have on the property? MR. TURNER-You can have one storage building. MRS. EGGLESTON-But there's no limit on the size? MR. MARTIN-There's no limit on the size of a storage shed. MR. TURNER-The only thing it says. under lØØ square feet you don't need a permit. over a lØØ square feet. you need a permit. MR. MARTIN-That would probably be the easiest thing. is to just put a size limitation on a storage shed. MR. TURNER-That's the easiest way to do it. MR. MARTIN-Say. a couple of lØØ square feet. because the intention. I think. was lawn rakes. a garden tractor. maybe. or lawn mower. MRS. EGGLESTON-But Mr. Batease already has two garages and a storage shed. MR. PHILO-Isn't shed attached to something? Isn't the word "shed"? 29 MR. TURNER-You've got one coming tomorrow night that's the same way. MR. CARVIN-That lean-to? MR. TURNER-Yes. that lean-to. MR. PHILO-The guy's already got it up. That lean-to's already up. MR. TURNER-The one you're talking about. MRS. EGGLESTON-Mabb. MR. TURNER-What happens if he puts car parts in there? MR. MARTIN-I would say that's storage. I mean. if it's unattached car parts. if he puts alternators and things in there. or a fender. but if he's got that mounted on a chaise with wheels. then I consider that a vehicle. and that's a garage. MR. CARVIN-What if there's no wheels on it? I think you have a hard point pressing that that's an automobile. if there's no wheels on it. If he takes the wheels off. then it becomes storage. Now. am I right in understanding that you don't have to issue a building permit if you think that there's going to be a problem? MR. MARTIN-No. not if we think there's going to be a problem. You mean for a storage shed? MR. CARVIN-Well. what I'm saying is that. okay. if you anticipate that there is a problem. can you not refer those to the Board? In other words. to this Board? MR. MARTIN-No. because there's no variance from the Ordinance. There's no variance needed. They're not varying from the letter of the Ordinance. or the letter of the law. MR. TURNER-No. but this is the same scenario that you well know about. where the 40 by 60 garage was put in. and it was given a permit as a garage. and it's not a garage. and there's been lawsuit after lawsuit over it. MR. MARTIN-Well. I think Joyce's comment is right. something wrong. There's MRS. EGGLESTON-Definitely. MR. MARTIN-Maybe. just to throw this out there. maybe if we're seeing this kind of hardship for people so universally. maybe it's too strict of a limitation to only say one garage per lot. MR. TURNER-No. I'll tell you what's happening. These people. like him. are a car buff. So they get into it. They get into it real deep. then they don't buy one car. They get into one car first. then they get into two or three more. MR. MARTIN-I know. I do it myself. I have an antique car myself. and I'd like to get another one. MR. TURNER-No. but that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. but if you're going to restore them. and you're going to sell them. you're in business. That's what he's doing. MR. TURNER-But that's a very hard thing to prove. Ted. MR. SICARD-You're not in business any more than a private individual who sells their car. MR. MARTIN-Yes. but it's a very hard thing to prove that a guy who. in his part time. restores these cars and sells them. and over the 30 period of three years, he maybe sells one or two cars, that's a very hard thing to catch, and what are you actually doing if you do catch him? I mean, that doesn't strike me as the most glaring violation that's going on in the Town, in terms of this Ordinance. MRS. EGGLESTON-I've got to ask a question. Who would tell Mr. Mabb he could call it a storage shed and we could give it to him? Who found that loophole? Who brought up that scenario? MR. MARTIN-He asked. He said, what if I build a storage shed? MR. PHILO-Well, he's been talking to somebody. MR. MARTIN-I don't know, but he came to my office and asked that question, and I said, well, if you build a storage shed, then we can issue a building permit, but I'm telling you right now, if we go there any time during the inspection process or any time thereafter and see vehicles there, we're going to tell you they have to be removed. MRS. EGGLESTON-We need a police force to do this. There's no way, once they get it built, they're not going to use it for what they want to. MR. MARTIN-I think the quickest and easiest way to keep the intent of the Ordinance, is to place a size on a storage shed. MR. TURNER-Two hundred square feet, and that's it, or 100 square feet. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, and in the meantime, Mr. Mabb's gotten away with it. MR. TURNER-You could say 100 square feet with no permi t. Two hundred square feet with a permit. MR. MARTIN-Well, what would probably be a good idea is put the limitation right under the size that you could store a car. Like this guy here was saying he could store a car in an 18 by 18 garage, and just make it. Maybe the limitation is 15 by 15 or something like that. MR. TURNER-That's awful big, on a small lot. That just crowds the lot. MRS. EGGLESTON-It just boggles my mind that they can come here and we can say, no, it's too much for that property. It's an infringement on the neighborhood, and then you're going to turn right around and give them a permit. It just disgusts me, our even being here. MR. MARTIN-I admit that it's a loophole, but, as a Zoning Administrator, you have no basis to say no to a storage shed. MR. TURNER-I think if I was the Zoning Administrator, I'd go up one side of him and down the other, and I'd find out what he's going to put in there, and what he was going to do there, and if he hadn't thought about it, he wouldn't get a permit. I'd make him go the loop. MR. SICARD-If you say automobiles, that's one thing, but if you don't say automobiles, you're going to have a pretty tough road ahoe. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, what that means is anybody that wants a second garage just come to you and say, I want a storage shed, and you're going to give them a permit. MR. CARVIN-Well, according to the definition, it says, "An accessory building used to store materials or small equipment, not 31 including vehicles, which support the principal use of the site." So. I mean, you could have a lawn mower, because that supports the principal use of the site, but I'm not quite sure a lathe might fit that description. MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. How about that, Jim? MR. MARTIN-That's a good point. I think the best thing is to put a size limitation on it. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman 32