1993-10-27
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 27TH, 1993
7:30 P.M.
Area Variance No. 71-1993 Lucas S. Wilson 1.
Area Variance No. 89-1993 John J. & Elaine E. Stark 14.
Area Variance No. 98-1993 Thomas R. Bolen 24.
Area Variance No. 95-1993 Michael & Kay Lopez 28.
Area Variance No. 92-1993 Stewart's Ice Cream, Co. . Inc. 37.
Use Variance No. 96-1993 Sonny Spahn 46.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
~'
QUEENSBURY ZONIHG BOARD OF APPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETIHG
OCTOBER 27TH. 1993
7:30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN
JOYCE EGGLESTON. SECRETARY
FRED CARVIN
ROBERT KARPELES
CHRIS THOMAS
LINDA HAUSER
PLANNER-SUSAN CIPPERLY
STEHOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
OLD BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE HO. 71-1993 MR-5 TYPE: UHLISTED LUCAS S. WILSON
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE END OF WALKER LANE APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO
:~:~~C~T F~:RSE~:~H¿'HOIN~ :8:~i:~H{10:~I~~¡~iH¡\EtIEV¡J.\¥>Tt lt~fl$}t
179-70B. WHICH REQUIRES THAT THE MINIMUM FRONTAGE ON A PUBLIC ROAD
FOR SUCH USE SHALL BE THE WIDTH OF THE RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR A PUBLIC
COLLECTOR STREET. WHICH IS FIFTY (50) FEET. APPLICAHT IS ALSO
SEEKING RELIEF FROM SECTIOH NO. 179-62B. WHICH REQUIRES THAT ALL
NONPUBLIC ROADS USED FOR VEHICULAR CIRCULATION IH ALL MULTIFAMILY
PROJECTS SHALL BE DESIGNED IH WIDTH. CURVATURE. ETC., TO
ACCOMMODATE SERVICE AND EMERGENCY VEHICLES AND SHALL MEET ALL TOWN
STANDARDS FOR PUBLIC ROADS. TAX MAP HUMBER: 60-7-14.1 LOT SIZE:
1.467 ACRES SECTIOH 179-70B. 179-62B
BRUCE CARR, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MRS. EGGLESTON-This originally came before the Board on August
25th, 1993 and it was tabled for clarification of right-of-way
width and the submission of additional variances in conjunction
with the application. It came back again September 15th, 1993. It
was tabled with the request that the drawings be reviewed by Tom
Yarmowich and his findings be forwarded to this Board. So, do we
have those? Did you get those?
MRS. CIPPERLY-If they're not in the file there.
MR. TURNER-Then he didn't review it?
MRS. EGGLESTON-No.
MR. TURNER-He didn't review it.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I know that he has looked at the plans, but I'm not
certain that he.
MR. TURNER-The drawinq be reviewed, and his findings forwarded to
the Board.
MICHAEL O'CONNOR
MR. O'CONNOR-I'd like to make comments on that motion.
MR. CARR-Mr. Turner, that was presented at the last meeting and Mr.
O'Connor didn't attend. I don't think we should open up the public
hearing for comments at this late date, on that particular issue.
MR. TURNER-What's the Board's pleasure? Do you want to open the
public hearing up and let him comment on this or not?
MR. THOMAS-No.
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MRS. EGGLESTON-I'd say yes. because he's asked several times for
the information and has been told by the Town that it wasn't
submitted.
MR. O'CONNOR-Was it an agenda item that night?
MR. CARR-Yes.
MR. O'CONNOR-For purposes of discussing Mr. Carvin's motion, or for
receiving that report.
MR. TURNER-Just to receive this report. It was for this report,
and for what information it furnishes, that's all. in respect to
his motion.
MRS. EGGLESTON-My opinion is yes, for what that's worth. It's up
to the rest.
MR. TURNER-Bob, do you care if he addresses?
MR. KARPELES-No.
MR. TURNER-Fred, do you have any problem with it?
MR. CARVIN-Only for the submission of new information.
want to go over the same stuff.
I don't
MR. TURNER-No. We're not going to go over the same stuff.
MR. CARVIN-I don't know if you can open up a public hearing without
allowing everyone to speak. I mean, we've gone through the
arguments. So, I guess if I had to say yes or no, I'd say no.
MR. TURNER-Okay. I'll say, no. Linda, no or yes?
MISS HAUSER-Yes. if it's new information.
MR. TURNER-We've got two out of four, carried.
you say no, Bob?
No comment.
Did
MR. KARPELES-I said, fine. go ahead, let him speak.
MR. TURNER-All right, three to three. It's a denial anyway.
MR. O'CONNOR-You're not going to open the public hearing, one of
your Board members has not even seen the report himself.
MR. TURNER-He looked at it just briefly now. I know that.
MR. O'CONNOR-It was not a document that was available, according to
Mr. Martin, as of last Wednesday, and I understood this was going
to be considered, Mr. Carvin, at the workshop, was going to present
his version of a motion.
MR. TURNER-Well, evidently, Jim made a mistake, because we got them
the 14th.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I really don't know why Jim would have said that,
because he was fully aware that this was, unless he misunderstood
what you were referring to.
MR. O'CONNOR-He finished the conversation, said he was going to
call Tom Yarmowich and see why it hadn't been there yet, according
to my conversation, because I asked him. I also would like to
address two other comments, new information which this Board does
not have, with regard to this application.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Briefly, Mr. O'Connor, you have five minutes.
O'CONNOR-Okay.
If I could have that report, there, I'm not sure
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what roadway or proposed roadway Mr. Yarmowich was looking at. As
I look at the plans as shown. the road goes along. it's an
extension of Walker Lane and then curves immediately to the right.
This indicates minimum roadway curvature radius of 300 feet. This
says no curves proposed. I don't know what he's speaking of. The
driveway. as it goes into the site. has no curves. but if you get
to the site. you're on a major curve. You're on a right angle
curve. which is a lot less than a 300 degree angle curve. The same
thing, Paragraph Five. Paragraph Six. talks about a 50 foot
tangent required. and again he says. no curves proposed. I'm not
sure he understood the plan as it was before him. Other than that.
this report itself requires a good number of variances from Town
road specifications. and I'm not sure if I understand the proposed
resolution of Mr. Carvin. Is Mr. Carvin's resolution saying that
the road will be built ~ Town standards. without variances? And
if that is so. then I think going forward at this point is a
nulli ty. unless there's an amended plan. Secondly, I have a
question which was raised with Mr. Martin. and he said that I would
raise it before the Board. You're basing part of your decision
upon a deed which was recorded in 1993. I believe that deed. in
and of itself. is an illegal subdivision. The owner of that deed
owns the back parcel immediately adjacent to this property. He
subdivided that roadway, or that 35 feet from that, which created
a nonconforming lot. by that deed. I don't think this Board can
act upon an illegal subdivision. or accept a deed out of an illegal
subdivision as a basis for granting a variance. The other question
I have. and I'm not sure, in the proposed resolution of Mr. Carvin.
he says that you're granting relief of 15 feet from the required 50
feet. There is a survey of this property that shows that the
right-of-way. at the most. is 20 feet. and that the property does
not connect onto the Town road. The Town road. at its end, or
terminus. is 35 feet, but then there is a no man's land between
that end of the Town road. and the beginning of an extension
southerly of a line to this particular parcel. There's a Rist-
Frost survey that was done for the prior owner, and I'll make that
part of your record. and it shows that the roadway that we keep
talking about at the best, as it is going to the property to the
south of this parcel is 20 feet. This contradicts that deed that
you also have seen, that supposedly is of 35 feet. It's a quick
claim deed. so I propose the other 15 feet doesn't more than the
other 20 feet. I think there's a serious question on how you're
approving the use of that road. if it was an illegal subdivision.
There's a question whether or not you're approving it with
variances. from the Town road standards or without variances from
the Town road standards. because that was the issue on safety and
health and welfare, and you've got a contradictory statement that
came with the prior owners of this particular parcel, as to the
width of that road. I think that this speaks. as it does. for 20
foot. That's back into ownership issues that was argued before.
We disagreed. The Town Attorney has ruled that that's a private
matter to be decided in the courts, not necessarily by this Board.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. O'CONNOR-But I think the issue of subdivision is right in front
of you, in front of that blue book. How did they create that road?
How did they deed that piece of property. They created
nonconforming lots by doing it, and you're approving that by
allowing them to use that as a basis for this application, and
maybe I misread Tom Yarmowich's report. but it seems like in a
number of areas they do not meet the specifications on the plan as
shown. and we've always said that we will submit on the plan what
we're supposed to do.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Mr. Carr.
MR. CARR-With the map in front of you. just to address that first.
the 20 feet is only from our property line over to an existing
picket fence that by no means has ever been presented to this Board
as the southern boundary line of the right-of-way. The map in. the
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tax map is 33 feet in width. I think I made that clear at the
meeting that was held that evening. and we feel that we own the
property to the south of that, some sort of fencing that's shown on
the map. There's no indication on that map that shows any right-
of-way at all, and I don't believe that the Board should accept
that as the gospel as to how wide the right-of-way was at the time
that we acquired title. The second issue that Mr. 0' Connor
addressed, as to the curvature issue, and that issue, at the
meeting on that Thursday evening was specifically addressed, and it
was presented to Mr. Carvin. that he would prefer to see the road
come straight up. but then go straight into our site, in the event
that the road ever becomes a Town road, which is hoped to occur in
the future, you don't want a curvature going into our property. We
want it to go straight up so that it can continue on to the parcel
in back of us. As to the subdivision issue, the subdivision, I
don't believe occurred, if it occurred at all, during our quick
claim deed, but it occurred in the time that Valente Builders
acquired title. when this land was not deeded to Valente Builders,
and this land was just left in limbo, with no tax map or no taxing
authori ty with a record owner. So I don't believe that we
subdivided the land, and I'm not sure what the Statute of
Limitations on that would be for the Town, but I think you've got
to deal with the fact, now, that you've got, you had a landlocked
parcel of land that you requested that we attempt to do all we
could to get road frontage. We complied with that request, as best
we are able to do. and we feel that we have a viable project in a
zone for which this type of project is recommended. That's all I
have to say.
MR. O'CONNOR-What I'm speaking of. doesn't Mr. DorIon own this
vacant four acre parcel of land?
MR. CARR-He may. He may not. I don't know.
MR. O'CONNOR-The tax map seems to indicate he does.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Okay. Comments are over. What do you want to do?
MR. CARVIN-Well, I still think the issue is the frontage. I think
the right-of-way is. another words, when I make my motion, which
has not been made yet, it will address just the granting of relief
as far as the road frontage. but it will conditioned upon meeting
certain criteria which has to do with the roadway. My feeling is
that, certainly, there's probably plenty of legal arguments for the
right-of-way, which will have to be contested in a court of law,
and not necessarily decided by this Board. If the court of law
decides that the right-of-way is other than what the conditions
are, then the whole motion, as far as the road frontage, becomes
null and void. I think that the arguments presented by everybody
here is very (lost words) right-of-way, but my interpretation of
this variance is just the road frontage, and again, I'm just
addressing this issue here, and contingent upon certain aspects be
complied with in here, which primarily have to do with the
construction of the road, and I said, if the court of law decides
that, if your argument that this is an illegal subdivision, or if
this land is found to be other than what it appears to be, then the
whole thing becomes null and void.
MR. O'CONNOR-I agree with what you're saying. to some part, there.
(Lost words) even look at that map to take what they are taking as
being the 35 feet, you have to have a jog southerly of probably 10
feet from the existing land. Walker Lane comes to a point. It's
marked right on your map, approximate end of public highway, and as
it goes over, they're saying that this 35 feet. well. see on this
map it wasn't marked 35 feet, and this is an earlier version of
that map. They're saying it's 35 feet from this point right here
to this point down here. You're saying it's 35 feet from this
point down here down to this point.
MR. CARR-Yes.
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--
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. This is Walker Lane southerly boundary. So
you're going to go out. You're going to jog down, eight. ten feet.
then you're going to go along.
MR. CARR-The pavement is just going to come. follow this line right
up. and it's going to follow this line. and then that is. I guess.
the right-of-way that you have to have on the southern side.
MR. O'CONNOR-Walker Lane. as it comes in this portion of the town.
is a road by prescription. It's a road not by deed or by
subdivision map. it's created by use. It's probably to the
pavement. or whatever the Town has been using for the last seven
years. and this is the Town road. So now you're talking about
frontage on the Town road again. from this piece to that piece.
That's the frontage on the Town road. That's less than 35 feet.
which was my point. as you're. I'm not trying to. you're going to
grant what you're going to grant. but the relief that you're
granting. you're saying you're granting a relief of 35 feet on a
Town road. Well. this. as it adjoins it, if they own it. by this
Quick Claim deed. doesn't adjoin a Town road.
MR. CARR-I think. you aren't taking into account DorIon Drive.
which is 50 foot, which is a deeded Town road.
MR. O'CONNOR-DorIon Drive's not a Town road.
MR. CARR-It's not a Town road?
MR. O'CONNOR-No.
MR. CARR-I always thought it was sent over to the Town.
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't think so. Is anybody here from the Homeowners
Association? I guess not. I'm not part of that subdivision. but
that's not a Town road. It's not shown by any of the tax maps.
MR. CARR-Sure it is. in the new ones.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I believe. in the folder. Joyce, there may be a
letter where the Town accepted Walker Lane up to the corner.
MR. O'CONNOR-Here's a tax map that I got when we started this thing
this summer. This is Bay Road. and we're going west. okay. It
doesn't show that section. Okay. I apologize. but I've seen the
map. and it's not a Town road.
MR. TURNER-Yes, thirty-one hundredths of a mile. We read that into
the record, up to Walker Lane. They're talking about this right
here.
MR. O'CONNOR-I'm just saying that. I'd point out to Mr. Carvin.
maybe. that the motion even. I disagree with the motion. I don't
think there's basis for the motion. but I think the motion's. and
the dimension's that he's submitting is even erroneous. I told you
I won't belabor the point. We've argued it many times. I have a
letter from the surveyor asking how far. see. this is all short of
this.
MR. TURNER-Thirty-one hundredths of a mile. the Town.
MR. O'CONNOR-Yes. which is back in here someplace.
MR. TURNER-Down there. There's the start of the road right there.
It ends right there.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. See. if you plot
to you. you're going to come from a
to go 35 feet down there. up here.
there. There's the Town road.
out the deed that he submitted
point over here. you're going
You're going to come 35 feet
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MR. CARR-I mean. if it's a private road. the Town's not going to
plow it. and at some point. it just seems to me that we have to be
a little practical. I mean. we're going to match up to Walker Lane
as it exists. and that's all we're trying to do is just get into
our sites as best we can. and if it entails a two foot jog. I mean.
that's what it's going to be, but it's not going to change the
project. or change what we're asking. I think that's the important
thing to keep in mind. We've submitted a map of what we would like
to do. Mr. Carvin's resolution is saying, well. you can build the
road you want to. if you want to get on your site. the original
site. but as you come into our site. we'd like you to meet Town
standards. At our last meeting. on that Thursday evening. I said
that would be fine with the applicant. I mean, this Board has
changed plans on the night of granting variances before. and we've
consented to that change.
MR. O'CONNOR-For the purpose of the record. though. Mr. Carvin.
you're not saying build what you want on your site. You've got to
comply with the requirements of the Town. Are you not saying that?
MR. CARVIN-That's correct. as far as the 50 foot right-of-way.
MR. CARR-Wait a minute. Mr. Carvin. can I just point out. we can
build according to what we've said.
MR. CARVIN-The motion makes no reference to that at all.
MR. CARR-Yes. but can we build it to the standards that we've set
forth there? You would hope that this would be Town standard. and
this would be per map specifications.
MR. O'CONNOR-In multi family. roadways within the development must
fill. and it's specifically right in the Ordinance. be built
according to the Town standards.
MR. CARR-I'm asking for a variance from it.
MR. O'CONNOR-I haven't seen any application for that variance. I
haven't seen any advertisement for that application.
MR. CARR-Yes, we did. Section 162 that you brought up at the August
meeting. I amended our application.
MR. TURNER-That was a second application.
MR. O'CONNOR-I haven't heard that read. I haven't seen it. The
second application was not for that. The second application was
for another Section. and are you intending to grant that? That's
the health and safety issue. because then you potentially have in
there 40 to 50 units. based upon the density.
MR. CARR-179-62. Multi family dwelling access.
MR. 0' CONNOR-You haven't specified how you're varying it. You
haven't done that yet. There's no specificity. and this is why is
was referred to Tom Yarmowich. and he was supposed to give us back
a report as to how it complied or didn't comply. am I correct?
MRS. EGGLESTON-Just for the record. I would like to say, I was here
for the August meeting. I was not here for the September meeting.
However. I've read all of the minutes. So I fee I that I can
participate in this discussion tonight. I would like to say that
the project itself. in my mind. is an enormous project on a right-
of-way. and it's being completely. in my opinion. clouded with the
argument about the right-of-way. I know what can happen on right-
of-ways. I live on one mysel f. with easements. with only two
people. and it can be a nightmare. I can't. in my wildest dreams.
imagine what it would be like with an apartment building of this
size. and with the potential of having to go through this
development to get to maybe another project on the other side of
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it. all by using the right-of-way, which, are you putting a burden
on the fire deparment. emergency crews. whatever, in that because
this is a private road. maintained privately. what happens if you
have a fire in this project in the back. and this road hasn't been
maintained. this private road. then what's going to happen is the
Town is going to be sued. and we're supposed to be looking out for
the Town. We're supposed to be looking out for the health.
welfare. and safety of the people in the community. and I just
think that this project. built on a right-of-way, is too much.
That's my opinion.
MR. CARR-Can I address that? It's not built on a right-of-way. We
have the deeded right to that property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's not going to be maintained by the Town.
MR. CARR-It doesn't have to be.
into our project.
It's our entryway. our property
MRS. EGGLESTON-But it could very well go to another project. Do
you agree with that?
MR. CARR-No. not necessarily. because the parcel behind is owned by
Ruth DorIon. and she also owns the parcel that's on Country Club.
So she has access to her own property through that. They're both
owned by the same person.
MR. TURNER-Yes. they are.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Where would it come out. on Country Club?
MR. TURNER-Almost across from Orchard Drive.
MR. CARR-I looked it up in the tax records to find out who owned
it. and she owns both of them. and it comes out just south of the
Country Club. the south.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And we all know a Quick Claim deed.
MR. O'CONNOR-Is subject to the right-of-way of others.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And it only says. if I have an interest.
MR. O'CONNOR-DorIon Drive. I thought it was the same DorIon as the
conveyor of the roadway. They have a right-of-way by deed. the
same as all the other people along there had right-of-ways before
the Town came up and took part of that by prescription. She has.
that four acres that is vacant behind there does not have to go to
Country Club Road.
MRS. EGGLESTON-She could conceivably use this?
MR. O'CONNOR-Yes.
MR. CARR-Are you holding our application to what could happen in
the future?
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. I think it applies. Bruce. I think it applies
to your application as well.
MR. CARR-Then lets just go for the right-of-way. Joyce. you've got
20 applications over the past five years before this Board. denied
one variance for road frontage. and that was not based on the
requirement of road frontage. That was based on the subdivision.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You're mixing apples and oranges. None of them were
for large complexes. They were single family dwellings. There's
a little bit of a difference there. Bruce.
MR. CARR-No. Not all of them were for single family dwellings. if
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you look at it. Some of them were in the zone that we are zoned
for, and that's the point, too. This property was zoned for what
we're proposing, and now you're saying you can't use the property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I understand that. I agree with you 100 percent, it
was zoned for that, but sometimes, if the roads aren't there, you
can't build. Even though it says you can build a bridge over a
river, if the river's not there, you're not going to build it.
MR. CARR-But the right to get to the property is there, and now
you're saying you just don't like right-of-ways, so you aren't
going to let.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I just think right-of-ways create a lot of problems.
I'm sorry, but that's my own personal opinion. I'm only one vote
out of all of these, but I wanted to express that.
MR. CARR-Okay. I wish you had expressed that two weeks ago.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I hadn't studied the stuff, and the minutes
come out for the Town for the September 15th meeting, and
got those this past week, at our last meeting, the 21st.
couldn't have done that. At that point, I had not read all
minutes.
hadn't
I just
So I
of the
MR. O'CONNOR-Without looking at the DorIon addition parcel, which
is four acres, you've got to consider that the parcel itself, by
density, could support 40 to 50 units, which is what Mrs. Eggleston
is looking.
MR. CARR-Our parcel?
MR. O'CONNOR-I'll take that back.
acres do you have?
I added in DorIon.
How many
MR. CARR-We can only support 12 units on the whole thing.
MR. O'CONNOR-And Dorlon is from 40 to 50.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I think, too, we'd be setting a precedent. I don't
believe there are any complex buildings in the Town built on right-
of-ways or private roads, if you will, just for what it's worth.
MR. KARPELES-I agree with her, and I'm not eager to see us have a
substandard road builtin there that the Township might end up
taking over, and as far as I can see, it would be substandard.
MR. CARVIN-I think the motion, if I propose it. would be that the
road that's built must comply with Town standards.
MR. KARPELES-Yes, but I don't see how it can do it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-If we're giving them relief, it's not going to meet
it, right?
MR. CARVIN-I'm only granting them relief of the, on Walker Lane
here.
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's a crucial part, though.
MR. THOMAS-The only thing that I've got to say is that by denying
this variance, you're denying access for Mr. Wilson to his
property, and he has a right to build on his property as zoned.
The only thing he lacks is just entrance to his property. If he
wants to build 12 units there, he can build 12 units there. It's
zoned MR-5. The only thing he needs is access to his property, and
if we deny this variance, we're denying him access to his property.
He has no way to get into that property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Actually, we're not denying him access to the
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property. if we deny the variance. because he still can use the
property. but maybe not for quite so much density.
MR. THOMAS-But he can't use it as zoned.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. he could build duplexes. which would have made
the neighborhood happy. They said they would have been happy to
see duplexes.
MR. THOMAS-In this zone. for the amount of acreage that he has. he
can build twelve units. because he has one. almost an acre and a
half. So he can build twelve units if he wants. That's his
prerogative. but he can't build those units unless he gets a
variance from the Town. So in reality. we're denying him access to
his land. and what it can be used for.
MRS. EGGLESTON-We might be denying access for this project. but he
still can use his land.
MR. THOMAS-But not as zoned. not as zoned.
MR. KARPELES-He just bought that property in February.
MRS. EGGLESTON-That's another thing. self-created hardship.
MR. THOMAS-The property was there. It was an MR-5 when he bought
it.
MR. KARPELES-He should have known that it was a landlocked piece of
property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Do you not think maybe that's why the cost of the
property was so cheap. because the people knew that there was going
to be this difficulty.
MR. THOMAS-If he paid a dollar for it. you know, he's going to the
expense and the difficulty of trying to get a variance. Any of us
could have bought that piece of property. and we'd have to go
through the same thing. It's just that Mr. Wilson bought it. Now
he's going through it. Somebody was going to do it anyway. because
this is a viable piece of property. for 12 units, it's in an MR-5
zone. The only thing it lacks is fifteen feet for access. and
that's the only thing it lacks.
MRS. EGGLESTON-That's a big lack.
MISS HAUSER-I agree with what he says. unless this was created. as
Mr. O'Connor says. and it's a nonconforming lot. in which case. if
he bought that lot. and it was nonconforming. then he created his
own hardship.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MISS HAUSER-So I'm not concerned so much with the right-of-way as
with how the lot was created.
MR. TURNER-Yes. That's my concern. Do you have a problem with
that. Fred? I'm concerned as to the legality of the subdivision.
if. in fact. he did create himself a hardship.
MR. CARVIN-Well. how does one determine that?
MR. THOMAS-The courts decide that.
MR. TURNER-Well. I guess. from my point. I'd be uncomfortable
voting on it if it was.
MR. CARVIN-So what are you suggesting?
MR. TURNER-I'd move to table it until it gets cleared up. I'm
- 9 -
uncomfortable with the fact that if they did create themselves a
hardship. illegal subdivision. by splitting that property.
MR. THOMAS-How would they create themselves a hardship? What. by
that Quick Claim deed?
MISS HAUSER-No. He's not saying by the right-of-way. by cutting
off that lot from that other parcel.
MR. TURNER-Cutting off that lot.
MR. THOMAS-When was that lot created?
MISS HAUSER-In '93.
MR. CARR-Which lot are we talking about?
MRS. CIPPERLY-The large lot.
MR. CARR-The large one?
MRS. CIPPERLY-Mr. Wilson's property.
MR. CARR-That's been there for years.
MR. THOMAS-The 1.467 acres. when was that created?
MR. CARR-That's. we've got an abstract back to the 60's. that was.
I'm talking about. you asked me to get that little 35. 33 that
little strip. to see if we could get title to it. because then we
would just have to have a right-of-way, and I went and got a Quick
Claim deed to it, thinking this is the person who owns it.
MISS HAUSER-Okay. I thought you were talking about the entire lot.
MR. THOMAS-No. The entire lot's been there.
MR. CARR-That's been existing for years.
MR. CARVIN-But if he can't meet the rest of the specifications,
then the motion falls, but I agree with Chris 100 percent. I mean,
how else is the guy. I don't care who buys it. It's a landlocked
piece of property.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. O'CONNOR-Just because the property is zoned for a particular
use, though, doesn't mean you have a right to use it. If you don't
meet the qualifications for that zone, as spelled out within the
Ordinance, you're subject to this Board's discretion. concerning
what is good for the health, welfare, and safety.
MR. CARVIN-Which would you prefer? I mean. he has a right-of-way.
Is there any argument about the easement or the right-of-way?
MR. O'CONNOR-As I understand it, he does have a right-of-way.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Now, he has a right-of-way. We're agreed. All
right. even if that right-of-way is one inch, right, he still could
build 12 apartments out there. He has a right-of-way. He has a
right to build those properties.
MR. O'CONNOR-No. You cannot build in the Town of Queensbury based
on the right-of-way. You have to have a certain amount of frontage
in order to build in the Town of Queensbury. For a single family
home. you have to have a minimum of 40 feet. For a multi family,
you have to be able to meet the standards of a Town road. the
minimum is 50 feet.
MR. CARVIN-And I don't want to carry this to the extreme, but
- 10 -
suppose there were
Suppose there was
apartments on that.
horses there.
no road? I
I mean. we're talking cars.
mean. he still could build 12
MR. O'CONNOR-Not according to the Ordinance.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Not without a variance.
MR. O'CONNOR-You can't get a building permit.
MR. CARVIN-If he's not going to build a road. he doesn't need it.
MR. O'CONNOR-He can't get a bUilding permit. Today he can't get a
building permit on that site.
MR. CARVIN-But he's not building a road. I understand what you're
saying.
MR. O'CONNOR-And the reaction. probably, would be a lot different
from the adjoining owners if there were less density proposed.
MR. CARR-Less density than the four out of twelve?
anymore. we'd have to come back.
If we do
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't make any stipulation as to total number at
all. I just hear that they want to be able to create this as an
existing lot and get whatever they can get for building.
MR. CARVIN-The applicant is seeking to build a four unit apartment
building. So it specifies four apartments.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay, but unless you limit your approval to that. he
will not have to come back to this Board to build the second or
third one. because he will have established access.
MR. CARR-But as I understand the rules. we would have to come back
for any new bui ldings on there to the Planning Board. who then
could revisit all these issues again.
MR. TURNER-Yes. they could.
MRS. EGGLESTON-They wouldn't deny it, the Planning Board. They'd
just make sure the septic and everything.
MR. TURNER-Yes. They're more interested in the traffic flow and
the septic and utilities.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Excuse me. but whether he builds duplexes or
apartments. he would still need 50 feet. So the density question.
the question before the Zoning Board. though. is the question of
frontage.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Are you comfortable with the motion? We could
beat this to death all night. and we won't get any place.
MR. CARVIN-I'm comfortable with parts of it. I'm not sure that I'm
totally comfortable with it. I hate to say that. but I'm looking
at what they're. according to our minutes here, he's requesting 100
percent relief, and we're granting a specific relief. I think that
there is a valid argument here. I know what we talked about at the
other meeting was just this road here. in other words. bringing it
up to specifications. I don't know if I'd have to rework it to
include the.
MRS. EGGLESTON-The road across the back. this part up here.
MR. CARVIN-I mean, you could interpret it that the whole thing has
to be built to Town specifications.
MR. CARR-Is that your intention, Mr. Carvin, was that your
- 11 -
intention to have it all built?
MR. CARVIN-No. My intention. basically, was just this section
here, but without the measurements, and I'd have to re-work this
whole thing, because he's asking for 100 percent relief. I'm
assuming that that would have to be addressed in the motion. As
the motion as I've got it written right now does not make any
reference to the 100 percent relief.
MR. CARR-Well, I think. Mr. Carvin, all you would have to say is.
once we enter onto that boundary line that is on the map. then it's
built to plan specifications. Those specifications are on the plan
for that.
MR. O'CONNOR-Is it your intention to grant him a variance, if he's
required to build the internal road to Town specifications? Is it
your intention to give him a variance from that requirement?
MR. CARVIN-That's correct. conditioned on the fact that this road
here be built to Town standards and specifications.
MR. O'CONNOR-What if he's got 200 feet of width there?
basis of granting an area variance on road construction
development? What's the hardship? What's the
difficulty?
What's the
within the
practical
MR. CARVIN-Because the issues that were raised by the neighbors
address the health and safety aspect. and the only health and
safety aspect, basically. is the traffic consideration. and if the
road is built to Town specifications.
MR. O'CONNOR-Fire vehicles that go in. you
vehicles side by side in there. if you have
down. you could pull another pump beside you.
foot radius.
want to park two
a pump that breaks
How about the 150
MR. CARVIN-I mean. the Fire Marshal said that he was comfortable
with?
MRS. EGGLESTON-No. It was only a verbal call from Kip Grant. I
read that in the minutes today. Jim did not get anything in
wri ting. It was a conversation. and he hadn't seen the actual
layout. It was just a phone conversation.
MR. O'CONNOR-There's a specific Section in the Ordinance. I can
pull it out for you. that says on multi family. internal roads have
to be built to Town standards.
MR. TURNER-Yes. I know. No. You don't have to pull it out. It's
right there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I read that myself today.
MR. CARVIN-If you're asking if I'm comfortable with my motion as
written. the answer there is no. If you're not comfortable with
this aspect. then I suspect we should go ahead and table it.
MR. TURNER-Yes. I would table it. I want to give everybody a fair
shake. if you want to move to table it.
MR. THOMAS-How long are we going to keep tabling this thing? We've
done it three times so far.
MR. TURNER-I know. but this is the last time.
MR. THOMAS-How many times are we going to keep this guy. how long
are we going to keep this poor guy hanging?
MISS HAUSER-What parts are you uncomfortable with?
- 12 -
MR. CARVIN-Well, I'm uncomfortable with the 100 percent.
MR. TURNER-The 100 percent relief.
MRS. CIPPERLY-The advertisement for 100 percent was before they
purchased, or got the Quick Claim deed. So I believe now you're
actually asking for less than 100 percent relief. One hundred
percent relief would have been the whole 50 feet of frontage.
MR. CARR-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Is the proposed motion, as reviewed, applicable in this
situation?
MR. TURNER-I think it is.
MR. CARVIN-If it is, then I'll go ahead and move it.
MISS HAUSER-We were making this motion based upon the information
they provided us. and if that information isn't correct, then they
have to go to court, and it's not for us to decide.
MR. TURNER-It's not for us to decide.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I can move it. Ted.
MR. TURNER-All right. Go ahead. Lets move it.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 71-1993 LUCAS S. WILSON.
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption. seconded by
Chris Thomas:
I move that we grant relief of 17 feet from Section 179-70B which
requires the minimum frontage on a public road to be the width of
the right-of-way for a public collector road. which is 50 feet.
However. this variance is based on the following conditions: 1.
The non-public access road. which will be constructed in the right-
of-way must meet all current town standards for public roads, (e.g.
12 foot lanes. 2 foot paved swales. materials. construction. etc.)
2. It must be designed to meet current town standards with regards
to curvatures. etc. to accommodate service and emergency vehicles.
3. Wherever possible. the right-of-way is to be expanded to the
town minimum of 50 feet. as outlined in the submitted plot plan.
4. Should the right-of-way be determined as other than 33 feet, a
new variance will be required. By granting of this relief, this
project will be subject to Site Plan Review by the Planning Board.
The practical difficulty with this project rests with the fact that
the land does not front on a town road and the applicant can only
establish a 35 foot deeded right-of-way onto Walker Lane. Thereby,
essentially making this parcel land-locked without the variance.
By making the applicant comply with current Town standards for road
construction. it would alleviate several health and safety hazards
that might be created by future expansion of use on the parcel or
adjoining parcels, should they be developed according to the
approved zone classifications. It would also be hoped that this
non-public road at some point become an approved town road. By the
granting of this variance, it would be the minimum relief necessary
to alleviate the practical difficulty. It does not appear the
variance would be detrimental to other properties in the district
or neighborhood. By conditioning the variance. the concerns raised
by the public opposition with regards to any safety or traffic
hazards along with any future proposed development of adjacent
parcels are addressed. Also, site plan review and the Planning
Board will address concerns raised regarding leach field. maximum
densi ty. along with quality of structures and parking on the
proposed development. There appears to be no effect on public
facilities or services. This would be my motion and I would ask
for a second.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October. 1993. by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Carvin. Miss Hauser, Mr. Thomas. Mr. Turner
NOES: Mr. Karpeles. Mrs. Eggleston
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Turner. does that mean the internal road would
have to be in compliance with. the only variance you granted was
the relief.
MR. CARVIN-All we granted was relief of 17 feet.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 89-1993 TYPE II RR-3A JOHN J. & ELAINE E.
STARK OWNER: RICHARD KILMARTIN DREAM LAKE ROAD APPLICANT
PROPOSES TO CREATE A BUILDING LOT OFF OF DREAM LAKE ROAD. AND IS
SEEKING RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-70A. WHICH REQUIRES FORTY (40) FEET
FRONTAGE OH A TOWN ROAD (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) DATE: 10/13/93
TAX MAP NUMBER: 51-1-35.1 LOT SIZE: 17.91 ACRES SECTION 179-70A
JOHN STARK. PRESENT
MRS. EGGLESTON-And the Warren County Planning Board returned. "No
County Impact."
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 89-1993, John J. & Elaine E.
Stark. Meeting Date: October 27th. 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY:
Large parcel fronts on Bay Road and Dream Lake Road. The proposed
parcel is on the east side of this large parcel. SUMMARY OF
PROJECT: Applicant proposes to subdivide a three and twenty-one
hundredths (3.21) acre lot from a seventeen and ninety-one
hundredths (17.91) acre lot. The large lot has frontage on Bay and
Dream Lake Roads. the proposed lot has no frontage on a Town road.
The parcel is in an RR-3A zone. CONFORMANCE WITH USEIAREA
REGULATIONS: Section 179-70A requires forty (40) feet frontage on
a Town road. Applicant states that he has a right-of-way to Dream
Lake Road. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. DESCRIBE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY
WHICH DOES HOT ALLOW PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE WHICH MEETS THE
ZONING CODE. There is no Town road frontage for the proposed lot.
There is an existing unpaved road which is used by one existing
house. 2. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VARIANCE NECESSARY TO ALLEVIATE THE
SPECIFIC PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY. OR IS THERE ANY OTHER OPTION
AVAILABLE WHICH WOULD REQUIRE HO VARIAHCE? To access this proposed
lot from the direction desired. this is the minimum variance
possible. In terms of access via the larger parcel. there may be
other options. 3. WOULD THIS VARIANCE BE DETRIMEHTAL TO THE OTHER
PROPERTIES IN THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? This variance in
itself would not appear to be detrimental to the neighborhood or
district. The use of the dirt driveway as a means to access
further development could be problematic. 4. WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS
OF THE VARIANCE OH PUBLIC FACILITIES AHD SERVICES? A discussion of
land ownership is included under Staff Comments. It appears there
could be a problem with emergency vehicle access if existing
ownership conditions are adhered to. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS:
The Queensbury tax map shows an access strip up to the southern
boundary of this proposed parcel. While there does appear to be
some access. it is not as wide as the tax map implies. Based on a
survey map of the adjoining lands of Ellsworth. it appears that
where the lands of Kilmartin abut the land of Ellsworth. the right-
of-way narrows to twelve (12) feet. The existing dirt access drive
is not within this twelve (12) foot wide strip. and it does not
appear that any right-of-way exists over the lands of Ellsworth.
The pertinent tax map and survey map portions are attached to these
notes. It should be noted that because this would be the second
residence using this access. the required frontage is actually
fifty (50) feet as required under Section 179-62B. which requires
that all nonpublic roads used for vehicular circulation in all
- 14 -
multi family projects shall be designed in width. curvature, etc.,
to accommodate service and emergency vehicles and shall meet all
Town standards for public roads. The applicant has proposed a
fifty-two (52) foot wide access strip in front of the proposed
parcel, but the situation described above effects the area between
the Town-owned Dream Lake Road and the proposed parcel."
MR. TURNER-Mr. Stark, could you answer the comment that the staff
raised as to the right-of-way over that property, the twelve foot,
narrows to twelve feet.
MR. STARK-Yes. There is 12 feet on Dream Lake, and it widens to
two other properties, and when it reaches the property we propose,
right now it's existing, it's close to 32 feet.
MR. TURNER-Yes. but it also states no right-of-way exists over the
lands of Ellsworth. Can you answer that one?
MR. STARK-As far as I know, there is a right-of-way.
MR. TURNER-You don't have any paperwork to show anything?
MR. STARK-No.
DICK KILMARTIN
MR. KILMARTIN-I have a deed that shows there is a right-of-way.
MR. TURNER-Over Ellsworth?
MR. KILMARTIN-No. It doesn't go over Ellsworth. It's on my own
property. Now, this is a Dream Lake Road. This is a survey. I
don't know what the date on here is.
MR. TURNER-1990, it looks like.
MR. THOMAS-September 27th, 1990.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. KILMARTIN-All right, and here is the survey, but this is my
property.
MR. KARPELES-Where is that dirt road? Is that the dirt road going
in there?
MR. TURNER-That's the dirt road.
MR. KILMARTIN-This is the dirt road, right here.
MRS. EGGLESTON-That's the same as this right here. So you come in
Dream Lake Road and turn this way? Is this the road you're
showing?
MR. TURNER-Yes. That's Bay Road.
MRS. EGGLESTON-That goes through, by Ellsworth's property?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. KILMARTIN-That's right.
MR. TURNER-That's Bay Road there. You come into Dream Lake there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MR. KILMARTIN-See what that says, Ellsworth's boundary shown
incorrectly, but this is the boundary right here.
ROBERT ELLSWORTH
- 15 -
MR. ELLSWORTH-Also. take note. this is not a 50 foot road. This is
only a 25 foot road, even though it shows a 50 foot road. You
can't make the corner. from 25 feet into 12 feet.
MR. THOMAS-How big is the proposed lot going to be?
MR. STARK-Three acres.
MR. THOMAS-A three acre lot.
MR. KARPELES-Where's the other house?
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's right across from it.
MR. TURNER-It's right across the road.
MRS. EGGLESTON-There's one already there. right across the road.
MR. TURNER-How does your neighbor across the road get into his
house?
MR. STARK-This right-of-way.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Does he have a legal deeded right-of-way across all,
have you talked to him?
MR. STARK-I have talked to them.
MRS. EGGLESTON-They ~ the right-of-way?
MR. STARK-They have a right-of-way.
MRS. EGGLESTON-They have a right-of-way.
MR. TURNER-Dick. did you sell this lot to him?
MR. KILMARTIN-To who?
MR. TURNER-The guy that's across the road from him?
MR. KILMARTIN-No, I did not. Carl Lewis sold that lot to him.
MR. TURNER-Carl Lewis?
MR. KILMARTIN-Yes.
SETTY DUFFY
MRS. DUFFY-That lot was part of an original, 75 acres or so. and
that lot was sold to the son of the original owner. and that right-
of-way was established for him to get into his property. It's been
existing for a long time.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Let me open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
CAROLYN CLARY
MRS. CLARY-I don't live there, but I know these people. and I don't
think Mr. Stark told he is with the Fire Company. He plows his own
road. So that might help him. Carolyn Clary.
DICK KILMARTIN
MR. KILMARTIN-Well, I've been down there pretty near 35 years.
I've owned the property for nearly 35 years, and I've driven
tractors and farming equipment up and down that road, and never had
a bit of problems. I had a little bit of a problem with a neighbor
one day, but that's all solved. and there's been no problem since.
- 16 -
but other than that. I don't see any reason why. the Kobza are in
favor of it. They told him that. They're in favor of having him
down there. They want some neighbors down there.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
application that
application?
Thanks.
wishes to
Anyone else. in
be heard? Okay.
support of
Opposed to
the
the
ROBERT ELLSWORTH
MR. ELLSWORTH-I oppose it on the grounds that it would be unsafe.
They can't make the 25 foot turn, it's a square corner. You're
coming off a 25 foot road into 12 foot right-of-way. Itís supposed
to be a 50 foot road. the Town has never widened it out to 50 feet.
Also. the people seem to be not using the 12 foot right-of-way.
They're running over on the lands of Robert Ellsworth. and they
seem to feel that they own that corner. That's going to have to be
settled in a court of law. I don't have any objections to Mr.
Stark building. but I think Mr. Kilmartin should provide him a
right-of-way off of 149. He has plenty of land. If he's going to
subdivide and develop his property, he should do it right.
MISS HAUSER-I have a question. Now. on this map we were given. is
this supposed to be showing that he. Mr. Ellsworth. owns this land
they're claiming is their right-of-way?
MR. ELLSWORTH-That's in estate right now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So, does Mr. Ellsworth own to this line right here?
MR. TURNER-Yes. from here to here. He owns abutting this.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MRS. DUFFY-This is the original survey. This is going back to
1954. These are lands of Robert Ellsworth here. going down here.
This is the right-of-way that we're talking about. 12 foot right-
of-way. and as I mentioned earlier. this was established to give
access to one of the Lewis' who was the son of the person who
original owned all of that land. That's why that was there
initially.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So it's actually a 12 foot right-of-way.
MR. ELLSWORTH-Off of our property.
make the corner.
It's too narrow.
You can't
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. how's this guy doing that. that lives in there
already?
MR. ELLSWORTH-What he's doing is coming in. and he's running around
the corner like this and then back out. He's running on our
property.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, couldn't you put something up there to stop
that?
MR. ELLSWORTH-Sure can.
MRS. DUFFY-We've put things up many times. and they have been taken
down many times. If you go up there. the road. what's being used
is not the right-of-way. It's on the Ellsworth property. I would
just like to say one other thing. This is not a lot that's
landlocked in any way. There is access. Mr. Kilmartin's property,
from both Bay Road and 149. In my opinion. there's no reason to
grant access through the 12 foot right-of-way for this particular
lot.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Kilmartin. do you intend to subdivide the rest
your property?
- 17 -
know they're not going to have speeding and whatever going down
those roads. I have been subjected to enough of that already. I
don't want it anymore.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MRS. EGGLESTON-Ted, where does this narrow to 12? The whole road
is 12?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But what were they talking about the part that
narrows down?
MR. TURNER-Right here, at the end. What they're saying is when
they come off Dream Lake Road, they've got to pull around the
corner like this, and go over in Mr. Ellsworth's property and then
swing back in to straighten up and get on the right of way.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Right.
MR. TURNER-Dick, can I ask you a question? You said you weren't
going to subdivide the RR-5 acre?
MR. KILMARTIN-No. I'm not.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MR. KILMARTIN-There's two parcels back in there that I own, and I'm
not going to subdivide either one of them.
MR. KARPELES-How did Kobza build in there? Did he have a variance?
MR. KILMARTIN-No. he bought that.
MRS. DUFFY-Betty Duffy. That was, property was owned by Lewis, it
had to be, I don't know, 75 acres. 100 acres. something like that,
and they gave that piece of property to their son. who built the
house. There was a fire there. I don't know if it was completely
destroyed and then they rebuilt and the current owner bought from
them. but it's been a residence there for many, many years.
MR. ELLSWORTH-This was primarily supposed to be just a driveway for
that one residence.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MISS HAUSER-Is that land that's zoned five acres, is that on the
market now?
MR. TURNER-The land that's zoned RR-5 acres up there on the top, is
that on the market. right here?
MR. KILMARTIN-Yes, it is. Originally, there was a Town road in
there, originally. It went out to the Baker lot. It was out in
the back. There was a cellar hole out there across the brook, it
comes down from Bear Pond. There was a cellar hole there when I
bought the place. I've filled the cellar hole in since, but
originally there was the Baker farmhouse there, beyond this Lewis
lot, and there was a Town road that went right out through to the
Baker Road, and it came out right across from Walkup Cutoff. The
road used to come right out and come right across, where Walkup
Cutoff is, and it came right up between where Moons live and
Williams live right now. There was a road that came right up
through there. I walked that road a good many times when I was a
kid.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Kilmartin, if someone came to you and said I'd
- 19 -
like to buy the lot. the other side of the Stark's, would you sell
it. another lot on the right-of-way?
MR. KILMARTIN-No. I couldn't.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And why is that?
MR. KILMARTIN-Why is that? Because the stream runs down through
there. it zig zags all the way down through that lot behind where
Stark's place is. is going to be. and there's no possible way I
could sell three acres in there and have a place for a building lot
in there. There's no possible way. the way the stream wanders down
through there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And you're not willing to give a right-of-way. I
take it. across from 149 or Dream Lake. to this piece of property?
MR. KILMARTIN-There's no. it would cost me thousands of dollars to
build a road in from there. and I literally means thousands.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Thank you.
MR. KILMARTIN-You're welcome.
MR. TURNER-Anyone else have a question?
MRS. EGGLESTON-I guess I could ask Mr. Ellsworth. does he have any
intentions of selling any of his that borders on that?
MR. ELLSWORTH-No. I don't.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And what about your lot. your second lot?
MRS. REARDON-I can't. I'd have to get a variance. It's less than
three acres. because you can only sell three acres.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. but at the moment. you don't have any plans of
selling it?
MRS. REARDON-I have no plans of selling it.
MR. ELLSWORTH-There is access in from the other way. There is an
old bridge. an old culvert across the brook.
MR. KARPELES-From where?
MR. ELLSWORTH-From 149.
MR. KILMARTIN-I'd like to see that.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Can you show it to us on the map here?
MR. ELLSWORTH-It's not on the map.
MR. TURNER-No. no. I'm just saying. you said it crosses the Brook.
Where does it cross the Brook on this map?
MR. ELLSWORTH-It continues right on out through. and past. (lost
word) and crosses the Brook right there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And it swings back around to 149?
MR. ELLSWORTH-It continues out to that field there bordering 149.
That's the access to that field. the back way.
MR. STARK-I think there might be some problems in developing that
land. anyhow. because of the proximity of that Brook. it's a low
lot.
MR. TURNER-Wetlands.
- 20 -
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. TURNER-What do you want to do?
MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Stark. how do you propose maintaining this road,
taking into consideration the sharp turn that Mr. Ellsworth has
spoken of? Where are you going to put the snow? How are you going
to maintain that corner without going on to someone else's
property? Could you come up here and address that?
MR. STARK-I've been snowplowing since 1972. The best I could do
wi th this, to bring the snow and put it off that right-of-way.
That right-of-way opens up to 32 feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, that's what I asked previously, and everybody
said it's only 12 feet.
MR. STARK-The
tapers wider.
narrowest point on the road is 12 feet, then it
Where my property is, it opens to 32 feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-How far is your house in on that road, would you
say?
MR. STARK-About 400 feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So you're going to push the snow 400 feet, in order
to get it off the road back in where it widens? How far would you
have to go?
MRS. DUFFY-It looks like 300 feet before it widens.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Is it 300?
MR. TURNER-Yes. The first lot's 50, it looks like 50 on the
corner, and the next lot's 250.
MRS. EGGLESTON-It was just surveyed?
MR. STARK-Yes, by Leon Steves of Van Dusen and Steves.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And this does widen approximately how far out, in
front of Lot 32?
MR. TURNER-Thirty-one.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Thirty-one.
(Neighbors were talking with one another in the audience.)
MR. KILMARTIN-It says 12 foot right-of-way. It doesn't say who
owns the property on the right-of-way. The property I own. I have
a map to it. I've got the deed to it.
MR. TURNER-The only problem I have with it, you get emergency
vehicles in here.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. around that corner.
MR. TURNER-God forbid anything ever happens.
MR. CARVIN-Well, the road is in terrible shape. Bob commented, and
I think we all were out there and saw the potholes.
MR. KARPELES-I don't know how you'd even plow it right now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MRS. REARDON-And to the left of this road is a line of Cedar trees
which I've been told by a surveyor are on the line.
- 21 -
-'
MR. CARVIN-I had all I could do just to turn around in there. I
had to turn around in the driveway.
MRS. EGGLESTON-If you two were to stake your corners, Mr. Ellsworth
and you. I don't know how a fire truck could make that turn to get
in there. unless they went way up around the hill and turned around
and came back down in straight, which could create more time in
case of an emergency.
MR. ELLSWORTH-You still can't go straight through there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You can't go straight through there? It's not wide
enough?
MR. ELLSWORTH-No. not the way the corner is.
MRS. EGGLESTON-How wide's a fire truck?
MR. ELLSWORTH-A fire truck. you've got to have room enough. 12 feet
doesn't line up straight with the other road is what I'm saying.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I see. Even if you came down from up off the hill,
it doesn't hit it straight. I see what you're saying.
MR. CARVIN-My feeling is that this is slowly becoming a
development, an area, and it's just being done piecemeal. My
feeling is that it probably should go to a plotted out little road.
and if he's going to develop it. develop it. and if not. selling it
piecemeal is. you know. if somebody comes in and buys this whole
thing, they're going to be putting roads in.
MR. TURNER-Well, Mr. Ellsworth doesn't want to sell any land. is
that correct?
MRS. EGGLESTON-No. no, Mr. Kilmartin's property.
MR. CARVIN-Kilmartin, I'm saying.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Because Mr. Kilmartin's the one who wants to sell
it.
MR. TURNER-As far as getting in from this way. he can forget it.
MR. CARVIN-Well. that's what I'm saying. I mean, fire departments
and whatnot, we're still dealing with a 12 foot road there. I
mean. and if he puts lots all the way up through here, I mean,
technically they could just extend it all the way up.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. without the benefit of.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. without a road.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And all the amenities that go with it.
MR. THOMAS-I can see that going into a development real quick,
unless the economy turns around. especially since all the
property's for sale. Some big developer's going to come in there
and snatch that all up. he's going to whack that right up. Is that
a wetlands in there?
MR. TURNER-Part of it is.
MR. THOMAS-Classified wetlands?
MR. TURNER-I would think it is.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Is there, Mr. Kilmartin?
MR. KILMARTIN-Yes. there is wetlands in the back.
- 22 -
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Motion's in order.
MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO.
STARK, Introduced by Fred Carvin
seconded by Joyce Eggleston:
89-1993 JOHN J. & ELAINE E.
who moved for its adoption,
The applicant is seeking relief from Section 179-70A, which
requires 40 feet frontage on a town road. I feel that if we were
to grant this variance. that it would be detrimental to the health,
safety and welfare of the neighborhood or the community, because we
are actually only dealing with a 12 foot right-of-way, which could
be insufficient for fire and safety vehicles. If we granted this
motion, we would be creating a situation that, over time, would be
extremely detrimental to the neighborhood.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Eggleston, Miss Hauser, Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Karpeles. Mr. Turner
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
AREA VARIANCE NO. 98-1993 TYPE: UNLISTED LC-42A CEA THOMAS R'
BOLEN OWNER: ROBERT J. BOLEN ROUTE 9L. RIDGE ROAD. 4.5 MILES
HORTH OF ROUTE 149 APPLICANT PROPOSES TO BUILD A SECOND PRINCIPLE
BUILDING ON A PREEXISTING. NOHCONFORMING NINE AND EIGHTY-NINE
HUNDREDTHS (9.89) ACRE LOT. UTILIZING AN EXISTING BARN FOUNDATION.
(ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY) (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) DATE: 10/13/93
TAX MAP NUMBER: 20-1-1.1 LOT SIZE: 9.89 ACRES SECTION 179-13A
THOMAS BOLEN, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MRS. EGGLESTON-And the Warren County Planning Board returned, with
the comment, "No action could be taken because a majority vote
could not be achieved."
STAFF IHPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 98-1993, Thomas R. Bolen,
Meeting Date: October 27, 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY: Route 9L.
Ridge Road, 4.5 mile north of Route 149 SUMMARY OF PROJECT:
Applicant proposes to build a second principal building on a
preexisting. nonconforming nine and eighty-nine (9.89) acre parcel,
utilizing an existing barn foundation. CONFORMANCE WITH USE/AREA
REGULATIONS: Applicant seeks relief from Section 179-13A which
allows one principal building for every forty-two (42) acres.
REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. DESCRIBE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WHICH DOES
NOT ALLOW PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE WHICH MEETS THE ZOHING CODE.
The existing farmhouse on the property will be restored as a
residence for the applicant's parents. Applicant proposes to
create a second residence on the property on the location of one of
the existing barns but does not want to propose subdividing the lot
further. 2. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VARIAHCE NECESSARY TO ALLEVIATE
THE SPECIFIC PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY. OR IS THERE ANY OTHER OPTION
AVAILABLE WHICH WOULD REQUIRE NO VARIAHCE? This appears to be the
minimum variance necessary. 3. WOULD THIS VARIANCE BE DETRIMENTAL
TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? It does
not appear that this variance would have an adverse effect on other
properties. 4. WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THE VARIANCE ON PUBLIC
FACILITIES AND SERVICES? There would be no effect on public
facilities and services. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: Utilizing
the existing barn location would provide a building site without
disturbance of additional land. In order to utilize the stone
foundation, an Enginee r' s plans and approval would have to be
submitted as part of the building permit."
- 23 -
MR. TURNER-Would you care to make a further comment?
MR. BOLEN-No. Other than this is the first time that I've applied
for a variance. and in doing so the Planning Staff was very helpful
in taking time to answer all the questions. and I had a lot of
them.
MR. TURNER-The question of building on the old foundation. that
isn't going to fly. The question on the old foundation.
MR. BOLEN-Yes. We intend to build where the old barn is. but. and
I think on the map I submitted.
MR. TURNER-Yes. You showed it.
MR. BOLEN-Following the instructions. I indicated the existing
building. and then the proposed building. back another 17 feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So. how are we on advertising the hearing. since our
advertisement said utilizing an existing barn foundation. and
actually your foundation will be bigger than the barn?
MR. BOLEN-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-The footprint would be bigger. So how are we here.
legal wise?
MRS. CIPPERLY-The expansion to the rear. the existing building.
your concern there would be the setback from the road. and using
the existing structure.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But we're talking about the legality of the. just be
sure our hide's covered.
MR. TURNER-Yes. but my thought is that if somebody had a problem
wi th that. and it wasn't advertised right. and we're going to
increase it 17 feet more.
MRS. EGGLESTON-How does everyone else on this Board feel?
MR. CARVIN-I've got a couple of questions. I need to know who the
players are here. You're Thomas. are you?
MR. BOLEN-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and Robert the third is a brother?
MR. BOLEN-He's my brother. and Robert. Jr. is my father.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Now who's. just Robert J. Bolen. I don't see any
designation numerically.
MR. BOLEN-That's my father.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Your father owns the property?
MR. BOLEN-Right.
MR. CARVIN-You're the applicant. You're Thomas?
MR. BOLEN-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-Is anyone living there now?
MR. BOLEN-No.
MR. KARPELES-You're going to build it on that barn that's falling
down right now. that foundation?
MR. CARVIN-He can't speak.
- 24 -
MR. KARPELES-He can't speak?
MR. TURNER-No, he's not the agent.
MR. CARVIN-Because the agent's Robert, not Thomas.
MR. TURNER-That's right.
MR. KARPELES-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-Robert the father.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Gave it to Robert J., hereby designates Robert
Bolen, III, as his agent.
MR. CARVIN-That's why I was confused as to who the agent and the
applicant was. So Robert is the one that's designated hitter.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I guess it was Robert that came in first.
MR. BOLEN-No, I. If it helps any, I believe I signed as the agent.
MR. TURNER-Applicant's signature you signed, but agent's name is
Robert.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But we haven't clarified, yet, are we legal in our
advertisement, Mr. Chairman?
MR. TURNER-No.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Chairman thinks no. What about the rest of the
Board?
MR. CARVIN-I have a lot of problem with this application. I mean,
if it's not legal, then lets send it back.
MR. TURNER-If it's not legal, lets send it back and get it done
right. He can't speak anyway.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, if we've got a wrong agent here,
lets get the players all lined up in a row.
MR. TURNER-Yes, lets get all the ducks in a row.
MR. THOMAS-Why can't the applicant speak?
MR. TURNER-Because he can't.
MRS. EGGLESTON-He's not the owner of the property.
MR. CARVIN-He's not the owner of the property.
MR. BOLEN-Does it have any bearing that I signed as agent?
MR. KARPELES-No, you didn't.
MR. BOLEN-I mean, I know it indicates my brother's the agent. I
signed as agent.
MR. TURNER-You signed as the applicant.
MR. THOMAS-It also says, reverse.
MR. KARPELES-Yes.
MR. BOLEN-At Warren County, I addressed that question, and they
didn't seem to indicate that there was any problem.
MR. TURNER-Well, they don't look at them as thoroughly, lots of
times, as we do.
- 25 -
MR. CARVIN-All I have is just the authorization to act as ag~nt.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-That's all I've got. Robert is the agent. This is Tom.
though. So, you can reverse it. Robert is the agent. So that's
correct. It should have been reversed. Robert should have signed
as agent. and Thomas should have signed as the applicant. So they
got that right.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But this is what we have to look at.
MR. CARVIN-But this is what we have to look at. and they're still
saying that Robert is the agent.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. So we have a couple of hurdles here before we
go any further.
MR. TURNER-We should re-advertise. It's not advertised right.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Right.
MR. TURNER-It might effect some people in the neighborhood that
would otherwise not even consider it. based on what they looked at
in the paper.
MR. BOLEN-As far as in the advertisement. in the application. it's
not indicated that we will be utilizing the existing foundation.
So. I'm wondering.
MRS. EGGLESTON-How we got that?
MR. BOLEN-Yes.
MR. TURNER-Yes. The whole thing is a mess. The whole thing is a
mish mash.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Well. you did indicate at least the existing barn
location.
MR. BOLEN-Right. that was the understanding. replacing the existing
building.
MR. TURNER-If we don't do it legally, it's going to come back to
haunt us. I don't like send them away. but. I mean. we've done
that on a lot less than this.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Do you have your house design right now?
MR. BOLEN-It's in the project.
MRS. CIPPERLY-As far as what the actual dimensions of the footprint
would be, because I think that was unclear at the time. exactly how
many feet back, you said you'd be expanding a little bit back from
the. but it wasn't a definite figure at the time.
MR. BOLEN-It's not written in stone right now. but in addressing
that, I thought I was meeting that requirement by what was done on
the map. indicating the existing building. and the proposed
structure.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I believe the issue here is really the second
principal building on the lot. and the fact that he's using the
existing barn foundation doesn't put it any closer to the. that
existing barn doesn't meet the 100 foot setback. It's. what. 60 or
80 feet from the. but if he's utilizing that. he would not need a
setback. because it's existing. and whether he expands it to the
back or not. doesn't require any kind of variance, because there's
plenty of room to the rear.
- 26 -
--
MR. TURNER-I'd just refer you to the one where we made the guy go
down and get his mother's signature.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. I think also I heard the gentleman say he
doesn't have an actual plot plan of the house you're going to
build. You don't have an actual layout on the property yet. and
all of that?
MR. BOLEN-Well. we don't have the actual blueprints for the home
yet.
MR. CARVIN-The current house there is not occupied.
correct?
Is that
MR. BOLEN-No. it's not.
MR. KARPELES-I thought you said he couldn't talk?
MR. CARVIN-You're right. Thank you.
MR. TURNER-All right. I'll move to table it.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 98-1993 THOMAS R' BOLEN.
Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption. seconded
by Fred Carvin:
Until it's properly advertised. and the signatures of the proper
agents are on the forms are in order.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October. 1993. by the following vote:
MRS. CIPPERLY-Your father could actually designate both of you as
agents if he would like to.
MR. TURNER-That's right.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Also. Mr. Chairman. we should see an actual plot
layout of the house on the map. exactly where it's going to go. the
footage. how many feet from the road, and so on and so forth.
MR. TURNER-Right.
MR. BOLEN-I guess I misunderstood you. That's what we have here.
MRS. EGGLESTON-On our map?
MR. BOLEN-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Is there a layout?
MR. TURNER-Yes. it shows it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. All right.
AYES: Mrs. Eggleston. Miss Hauser. Mr. Karpeles. Mr. Carvin.
Mr. Turner
NOES: Mr. Thomas
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
AREA VARIANCE HO. 95-1993 MR-5 TYPE: UNLISTED MR-5 MICHAEL &
KAY LOPEZ OWHER: SAME AS ABOVE CORHER OF CENTRAL & MICHIGAN
AVEHUES APPLICAHT IS PROPOSING TO CONVERT AH EXISTING GARAGE INTO
A BEAUTY PARLOR. AND SEEKS RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-12C(5). WHICH
STATES THERE SHALL BE HO MORE THAH ONE (1) PRIHCIPLE BUILDING IN A
RESIDENTIAL ZONE ON ANY SINGLE LOT LESS THAN TWO (2) ACRES IN SIZE.
TAX MAP NUMBER: 127-2-9 LOT SIZE: 90 FT. BY 100 FT. SECTIOH
179-12C(5)
- 27 -
-
MICHAEL & KAY LOPEZ. PRESENT
MRS. EGGLESTON-And the Committee for Community Beautification gave
approval preliminary. with the comments. "Renovation of garage to
make into a hair salon. Lot size - 9.000 sq. ft. Applicant lives
in house on this property and owns other property in the area.
Driveway has blacktop and will add more parking spaces with crushed
stone - eventually will blacktop. Need 4 parking spaces. one in
front near entrance for the handicap and 3 on side. Two large
trees in area to remain. Existing stockade fence running north to
south on west side of property to remain and add stockade fence
running east to west from this fence in back of salon and extended
to front of building on Central Avenue - screens Beauty salon from
neighbor. Discussed window box beneath picture window for flowers
and mobile barrel planters in front. Lawn to remain around
building. Triangular enclosure for trash container in northwest
corner. Committee would like to see rhododendrons. burning bush or
some type of hedge on west side and cut down on blacktop. Since
applicant had no plan to submit. Committee gave preliminary
approval and applicant agreed to return in spring with definite
plans. Owner will do maintenance. In addition to the above
Landscaping. Screening and Planting Provisions, the Committee
wishes to go on record that it does not approve: 1. Non-
conforming signs, and 2. Plastic or artificial trees, shrubs or
flowers. In approving the above (or attached plans), the Committee
has the expressed or implied agreement of the applicant to replace
immediately dead trees, shrubs or plants. and to give proper
maintenance to all plantings. All rubbish containers or dumpsters
shall be screened, all plantings shall be mulched and trees shall
be retained or planted. as agreed."
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 95-1993. Michael & Kay Lopez.
Meeting Date: October 27. 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY: corner of
Central and Michigan Avenue SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant is
proposing to convert an existing garage into a beauty parlor. The
residence on the property is rented. Applicant also owns the
adjoining vacant parcel to the west. CONFORMANCE WITH USE/AREA
REGULATIONS: Section Number 179-12C(S) does not allow more than
one principal building on less than two (2) acres. The residence
and the beauty parlor would each be considered a principal
building. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. DESCRIBE THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY
WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE WHICH MEETS THE
ZONING CODE. The applicant does not own two (2) acres. 2. IS
THIS THE MIHIMUM VARIANCE NECESSARY TO ALLEVIATE THE SPECIFIC
PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY. OR IS THERE AHY OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE WHICH
WOULD REQUIRE NO VARIANCE? Even if the adjoining ninety by one
hundred (90 x 100) foot lot were included as the lot area. the two
(2) acres could not be met. There do not appear to be any other
options on this site. 3. WOULD THIS VARIANCE BE DETRIMENTAL TO
THE OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? Concerns
have been expressed by neighbors regarding traffic. parking. and
the business nature of this project versus the residential nature
of the area. 4. WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THE VARIAHCE ON PUBLIC
FACILITIES AND SERVICES? The proposed project would require Town
water. which is available. and would utilize the existing septic
system. Building Department staff state that this is acceptable.
although the system may require more frequent pumping than usual
due to the nature of the discharge. STAFF COMMENTS AHD COHCERHS:
Based on the square footage of the garage, three (3) parking spaces
are needed, including one handicapped space. Applicant has
submitted a revised parking plan after staff review."
MR. TURNER-Mike, any comment you want to make before you get
started here?
MR. LOPEZ-I'll answer any questions the best way I can.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Does anybody have any questions?
- 28 -
MR. THOMAS-I have one or two.
have in there?
How many chairs do you propose to
MRS. LOPEZ-In there. there will be two.
MR. THOMAS-There'll be two. How may employees will there be?
MRS. LOPEZ-One.
MR. THOMAS-Just one employee. you?
MRS. LOPEZ-The reason for the two chairs is so that. if I am giving
a perm and I have a client that needs a hair cut, I don't have to
put a perm client in my waiting area. I have two chairs to
utilize. Kay Lopez.
MR. THOMAS-Do you know how much water you'll be using?
MRS. LOPEZ-Gallon wise?
MR. THOMAS-Guess?
MRS. LOPEZ-A day?
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MRS. LOPEZ-Maybe 200 gallons. I don't know. I have no idea.
MR. LOPEZ-I would say for each hair, probably less than half a
gallon. So she's doing the most. in an eight hour day. two hair
cuts a half hour would be 16 gallons for the whole day. if she
doesn't take a lunch.
MR. THOMAS-I go through more than a half a gallon just in the
shower in the morning.
MR. LOPEZ-You're just talking about. in general.
MR. THOMAS-Do you have restroom facilities in there?
MR. LOPEZ-We will be putting them in. handicap accessible.
MR. THOMAS-So there's more water use right there.
MR. LOPEZ-Yes. I was hoping maybe to. if I have to. put the water
from the hair being washed. could that go into a separate drywell.
as the bathroom went into a regular septic tank. because actually
it's just water and soap that would be going.
MR. THOMAS-I'm not a sanitary engineer.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I see you people yourselves lives on Stevens Road.
So who lives in the house on this premises?
MR. LOPEZ-We have it rented right now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's a rental property?
MRS. LOPEZ-A rental property.
MR. TURNER-So there'd be a rental property and a business property.
Do you know what size septic system there is for the house. Mike?
MR. LOPEZ-There's a thousand gallon tank in there now. I just had
it pumped out by Del Congdon. and I had him check it out for this
reason. ahead of time, so I could say. the capacity.
MR. TURNER-But initially you're putting soapy water into that tank
also. along with your sewer waste from the house?
- 29 -
MR. LOPEZ-Right now that goes right to the house. and it's only a
two bedroom house.
MR. TURNER-Okay. but I mean. everything goes into one tank?
MR. LOPEZ-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Well. this map here, is this 1952?
MRS. CIPPERLY-This property was transferred, I believe. during this
summer, from Noble Counter. and I believe that's the map.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You purchased the property this summer?
MR. LOPEZ-Yes. this summer. I have the original map. I don't have
it right now with me. These are the three vacant lots that join it
right here.
MR. CARVIN-There's still 30 foot frontage?
MR. LOPEZ-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You own all of these?
MR. LOPEZ-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You own, altogether then, how many lots?
MR. LOPEZ-I own six lots. but that's back when they set those lots
UP. way back.
MRS. CIPPERLY-According to the Assessor's Office, they're taxed on
two lots, the one that has the house and garage on it. and then
there's a vacant lot.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. so that these lots. these six lots, have been
actually combined?
MR. LOPEZ-No. There's two separate deeds.
MRS. CIPPERLY-They're two separate deeds.
MR. LOPEZ-They're shown on the tax map.
MRS. CIPPERLY-There should be a solid line down the middle.
MRS. EGGLESTON-No. there isn't.
MRS. CIPPERLY-On the tax map there is.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And how much land is this whole part that you own?
MR. LOPEZ-Ninety by one hundred.
MRS. EGGLESTON-No. your whole piece of property.
MR. LOPEZ-I own six lots.
MRS. EGGLESTON-What's the size of that combined?
MR. LOPEZ-Probably two hundred by one hundred. two hundred by
ninety.
MR. KARPELES-Two hundred by ninety. yes.
MR. TURNER-Eighteen thousand square feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay.
MR. TURNER-These three lots are separate lots of record?
- 30 -
MR. LOPEZ-Yes. This is a vacant. This is a vacant.
MR. TURNER-That's a vacant there.
MR. LOPEZ-That's where the house is.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Mr. Lopez, what are your plans for these three lots?
MR. LOPEZ-At this moment, nothing, because of financial wise, but
I mean. eventually. I guess it is zoned for multiple home use down
there.
MR. TURNER-Yes. MR-S.000 square feet.
MR. LOPEZ-If my finances got better I would like to put a duplex
there. eventually, down the road, but not saying, today I plan on
just holding it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Okay. Thank you.
MR. TURNER-That's an allowed use there, except he doesn't have the
two acres.
MRS. EGGLESTON-In the MR-5, a beauty shop is?
MR. TURNER-Yes. It's an allowed use. He just doesn't have the two
acres.
MR. THOMAS-It doesn't say beauty shop.
Beautician.
It says Licensed
MR. TURNER-Right. Licensed.
MR. THOMAS-Are you a licensed beautician?
MRS. LOPEZ-Yes, I am.
MR. THOMAS-Okay, just to make it legal.
MR. TURNER-Okay. The only thing before us is the question of the
two acres. Any questions? Okay. I'll open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
CORRESPONDENCE
MRS. EGGLESTON-A letter from Raymond and Sharron Deyette. 197
Michigan Avenue. "We are corresponding to state our objection to
the proposal by Michael and Kay Lopez to establish a beauty parlor
in the building presently utilized as a garage. The present
character of our neighborhood is residential in nature and the
number of children has recently increased due to the erection of
nearby duplexes and the expansion of already established families.
A business of any sort would necessarily increase traffic in the
adjacent areas and thereby increase the risk of personal injury to
any child playing nearby or walking back and forth on the roads.
With the layout of the area in question, if any more than two or
three cars were present at a time. the excess cars would be forced
to park in the road. This would cause congestion along the edge of
the road thereby creating yet another hazard this time to
vehicular as well as pedestrian traffic. We are submitting this
letter in lieu of being present at the meetings because we both
work second shift and the meetings are occurring during our working
hours. We appreciate the fact that the Lopez's are attempting to
recover their investment in this rental property as rapidly as
possible¡ but we must reiterate that there will be too much danger
- 31 -
from increased vehicular traffic and the character of the
neighborhood will be altered to too great a degree. Our
neighborhood is zoned for only one principal building on two acres
so it will remain residential in nature - please do not circumvent
this. Thank you. Raymond Deyette Sharron Deyette" And another
one from Marion Pincheon. "I would object to the proposal to
convert an existing garage into a Beauty Parlor, on the corner of
Central & Michigan because there is no place to park. They would
be parking along the road and it is dangerous when you are backing
out of my driveway which is directly across from their garage.
Sincerely. Marion Pincheon"
MR. TURNER-Do you work for someone now as a beautician?
MRS. LOPEZ-Yes. I do. I work in the Aviation Mall right now.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MRS. EGGLESTON-They'd need variances on the se. wouldn't they,
trying to build on them. because of the 30 foot?
MR. TURNER-Yes. probably lot width. MR-5? Yes. He might not meet
the lot width. Eighty feet. Yes. You'd need a variance on it.
Lot width. You wouldn't meet the lot width.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Where are you getting that it's a permitted use?
MISS HAUSER-Because it says Professional Office. then you look up
Professional Office.
MRS. EGGLESTON-He just did. Professional Office is not. how are
you considering that's a permitted use in an MR-S zone?
MR. CARVIN-If you look under Beauticians. it says. Service
Business. not Professional Business.
MRS. CIPPERLY-If you look under Professional Office. however. if
you look under Professional Occupation. it does. if you look under
Professional Office, it says.
MR. CARVIN-An office.
MRS. CIPPERLY-For a Professional Occupation. and a licensed
beautician is listed under Professional Occupation.
MRS. HAUSER-Page 17937.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-A beauty shop is listed as a Service Business. a
Professional Business.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Right.
MISS HAUSER-A Professional Occupation. though.
MR. KARPELES-Yes, but a Professional Occupation. they've got
licensed beautician or barber in there. A Professional Office is
an office used to conduct a Professional Occupation.
MR. TURNER-Yes. It's an allowed use there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-My question was. if he were to develop these other
three lots. he would need a variance. since they're only, so we're
talking about variances here and in the future more variances on
the other part. I know they're preexisting lots, nonconforming.
preexisting.
MR. LOPEZ-Down the road, I might end up just selling them, just
looking at the future possibilities.
- 32 -
-.-/
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-The only thing they haven't got is the two acres.
That's it.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Right.
MR. LOPEZ-And I would say that, for the traffic rise, that the most
my wife can do is two persons in an hour. a half hour a time to do
a hair cut. so that would be basically one coming and one leaving
in an hour. So. you're not talking a real influx of traffic.
MRS. LOPEZ-And I also feel that my hours will be so minimal that I
don't think it'll effect the traffic.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Single family is actually a nonconforming use. now.
in Multi family residential.
MR. LOPEZ-Type II. the Town of Queensbury Code on Page 179-19. go
down. Type II. Professional Office is a home use.
MR. TURNER-Yes. but I think that the definition was so that. I
think back to that. is that they're licensed. They're a licensed
beautician.
MR. CARVIN-So she can have an office there, but not a shop. There
is a difference between an office and a shop. You don't go to the
doctor's shop.
MISS HAUSER-No. but you go to a doctor to receive services.
MR. THOMAS-Do you take your car to a body office?
MR. CARVIN-But that's different. A body shop is a body shop. It's
a shop. It's a service.
MR. THOMAS-So is a beautician.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. but. I still say. according to this. a beauty shop
is a service. if you take a look at the definition of beauty shop.
MR. LOPEZ-But my wife's a professional licensed beautician.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I'm not arguing the fact that you can have an
office there. I just say that you can't have a shop there.
MR. KARPELES-I think it's pretty clear. as far as I'm concerned. an
office used to conduct a professional occupation. A professional
includes a licensed beautician or barber.
MR. TURNER-A professional occupation is listed as a licensed
beautician. and on the next page. a professional office is office
used to conduct a professional occupation.
MR. CARVIN-If you take a look at Professional Office incidental to
home use. is home use the same as home occupation?
MR. TURNER-No.
MR. CARVIN-There is no definition of home use. but I guess what
we're saying is that a Professional Office could be used in
conjunction. if you want. instead of a beauty parlor, and we've
turned them down repeatedly.
MR. KARPELES-Is that an MR-S zone?
MR. TURNER-That's an MR-5 zone. That's the difference.
MR. CARVIN-What I'm reading is. this is an SR-1A.
- 33 -
MR. THOMAS-This is an MR-5 zone.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I know, but we're saying. they're permitted, then,
if you're going to interpret a Professional Office as a beauty
shop. then it would also fall under a Single Family Residence.
MR. THOMAS-That's what I said for the variance up on Reardon Road.
nobody agreed with me. Now you're agreeing with me?
MRS. EGGLESTON-No. I don't agree with you. We're still
disagreeing. that's our contention. We don't agree in this case.
MR. THOMAS-I read it as, in an MR-5 zone, they can have.
MR. CARVIN-I think there's a definite contradiction there.
MR. TURNER-What it says under the purpose of the MR-5 zone, it
says. Professional Office bUildings in areas located near
commercial services, subject to intense development pressure.
MR. KARPELES-It says they're designated to provide for anticipated
increasing demand for high density.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-Multi family housing and professional office
buildings.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Office buildings.
MR. KARPELES-Office buildings. and we already defined what an
office.
MR. TURNER-Yes. but the only criteria that's in front of us is
whether they can have it here, because if they can't have it,
because of the two acre limit, and that's what they're here for.
MRS. EGGLESTON-What's the amount of relief that they're seeking?
I don't even see that in the, on the Staff Notes. What's the
amount of relief they're seeking?
MRS. CIPPERLY-The size of their lot.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Is this maximum relief, or what is it?
MR. LOPEZ-It's two acres.
MRS. EGGLESTON-We can only look at the lot the garage is on, not
all these other lots, right? Just this one here, in deciding what
amount of relief we're granting.
MR. TURNER-The garage is on two lots and the house is on two lots.
MR. CARVIN-But it's being taxed as one lot.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-So it's being taxed as a 90 by 100.
MR. TURNER-Yes, so it's 9,000 square feet.
MRS. EGGLESTON-And what is two acre, how many square feet?
MR. TURNER-Forty two thousand.
MR. CARVIN-Thirty-two thousand is an acre. or something like that.
MR. TURNER-No. 40 some thousand.
MR. CARVIN-Is an acre?
- 34 -
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-So two acres is 84.000? So we're going to grant relief
of a lot.
MR. TURNER-An acre is 42.560.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So that's approximately 96.000. and they've only got
9,000.
MR. TURNER-That's all they've got.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Isn't this a maximum relief request?
MR. TURNER-Yes. That's what it's about. The Ordinance says he can
only have one principal building on a residential lot.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-All those lots are so small in there. that it would
really make sense that.
MR. LOPEZ-That's one of the problems. Back when these were
surveyed out. they never thought the Ordinance and stuff would be
going the way they are. So that you're, I mean. going to be
penalized. either way. to develop a piece of property. On the
other end. if we develop that vacant property. we're going to be
taxed for not using it. If we go develop it, we're going to be
penalized because of the way the structure of the Ordinance. and
how big the lots are now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But you just purchased this land.
MR. LOPEZ-Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You knew that when you purchased it. right?
MR. LOPEZ-Yes, but (lost words) ran kind of thin down there. too.
MISS HAUSER-When did you purchase it?
MR. LOPEZ-April.
MR. TURNER-April of '93. This has been in effect since 1988. So
it hasn't really been done recently.
MR. LOPEZ-Right. because I believe this. down the road. if you look
on the regular survey map, on the tax here. it's Torrington Steel.
which is zoned commercial.
MR. TURNER-If they're preexisting nonconforming, there's nothing
our Ordinance can do.
MR. LOPEZ-No. I'm just saying how close to a commercial zone it is
right there.
MR. TURNER-And I've got to tell you that a lot of people up there
have been, become very concerned over the commercial development in
that area. just because of what they've got there. They've updated
their homes. and they want to keep them looking nice, and they
don't want a commercial use established in there.
MR. LOPEZ-I just thought that this would be a good place for us to
serve the community here. with a need that. there is a lot of
elderly people there.
MR. TURNER-You know, the criteria for the variance, that you're
asking for maximum relief. That's the problem right there.
MR. LOPEZ-We would end up with the same problem if we did it at
- 35 -
"
-
home on Stevens Road, because we don't have the parking.
MRS. EGGLESTON-This is a lot for that little, I mean, you've got a
rental property.
MR. LOPEZ-If I was to build another building on the vacant lot,
could it be approved then, because I'm being burdened, not being
allowed use of the property, to develop it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, I would say that since you just purchased the
property, you had an obligation to know what you could do with the
property before you purchased it. You had an obligation to know
that.
MR. LOPEZ-I checked with the Town at the time, Professional Office
use, and it said, in the Professional Office use, that it could be
used as a beauty salon.
MRS. EGGLESTON-If you had two acres.
MR. TURNER-They didn't tell you the other side of the coin, you had
to have two acres.
MRS. EGGLESTON-You don't have two acres.
MR. LOPEZ-No, they did not.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Excuse me. At the time that 1 came in on this, we
did inform the Lopez's that, on your other property, they were
informed that if they wanted to build a duplex there, and have half
of it be a professional office, and half rented out residential,
that would be permissible, because of the way this is defined. So
it's really not whether this is a permissible use at all. It's the
number of uses on that amount of land.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, which is really a maximum relief.
MRS. CIPPERLY-My figures, if he uses the one lot, that the
application covers, it would be 1.79 acres difference from the two.
MRS. EGGLESTON-That he lacks, yes.
MR. LOPEZ-I mean, which you don't need two acres for a beauty
salon.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, they figure you need two acres in a, you may
find, very well, that she wishes she had more, if her business
grows and she has two stations. I mean, and you may in the future
say, well, gee, lets hire another person, and you'd have more
people, and there's not enough parking spaces, and people are going
to be parking on the road.
MR. LOPEZ-Well, this is why the vacant lot is being left, just in
case we do have that.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But there's no guarantee of that?
MR. LOPEZ-That's right.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I mean, you could sell that or build on that at any
time, and do whatever, there's no guarantee of that.
MR. LOPEZ-No, this is why we're saying, why we left it vacant, so
we could expand over to that vacant property.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Motion's in order.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIAHCE HO. 95-1993 MICHAEL & KAY LOPEZ,
Introduced by Chris Thomas who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Linda Hauser:
- 36 -
~
Grant the applicant 1.79 acres of relief from Section 179-12C(5),
which states that there shall be no more than one principal
building in a residential zone on any single lot less than two
acres in size. The applicant has shown that because of the size of
the existing lot, that the problem does exist, and that it can only
be alleviated by a variance. This may not be the minimum variance
necessary, but it is the only variance that can be given to
alleviate the situation. I don't believe there would be any
detriment to the properties in the area, and I don't see any
effects of the variance on public facilities or services in the
area.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Miss Hauser, Mr. Thomas
NOES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Carvin, Mrs. Eggleston, Mr. Turner
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
MR. TURNER-It's denied.
AREA VARIANCE HO. 92-1993 TYPE II NC-10 STEWART'S ICE CREAM.
CO.. INC. OWNER: DAKE BROS.. INC. STEWART'S ICE CREAM CO., INC.
123-125 AVIATION ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO MODIFY PARKING LOT AND
IS SEEKIHG RELIEF OF TWENTY-SIX (26) FEET FROM SECTION 179-72.
WHICH REQUIRES A FIFTY ( 50) FOOT BUFFER BETWEEH COMMERCIAL AND
RESIDENTIAL ZONES. TAX MAP HUMBER: 78-1-8.62 LOT SIZE: 1.04
ACRES SECTION 179-72. 179-66
MARY ANNE MACICA, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF IHPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 92-1993, Stewart's Ice Cream
Co., Inc., Meeting Date: October 27, 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY:
Aviation Road SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant proposes to modify
parking area to create safer traffic flow and attempt to minimize
the amount of greenspace eliminated. COHFORMAHCE WITH USE/AREA
REGULATIONS: Section 179-72 requires a fifty (50) foot buffer
between commercial and residential use which, in this case is the
property to the north. Applicant is seeking relief of twenty-six
(26) feet from Section 179-72. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. DESCRIBE THE
PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW PLACEMENT OF A STRUCTURE
WHICH MEETS THE ZOHIHG CODE. In order to provide the thirty-seven
(37) parking spaces required based on floor area, the buffer zone
will need to be decreased. 2. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VARIAHCE
NECESSARY TO ALLEVIATE THE SPECIFIC PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY. OR IS
THERE ANY OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE WHICH WOULD REQUIRE NO VARIANCE?
This is the minimum variance necessary, and no other options appear
possible. 3. WOULD THIS VARIANCE BE DETRIMEHTAL TO OTHER
PROPERTIES IN THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? It does not appear
that this variance would be detrimental to other properties. 4.
WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THE VARIAHCE ON PUBLIC FACILITIES AHD
SERVICES? There would be no effect on public facilities and
services. STAFF COMMENTS AHD CONCERHS: In the course of review of
this application, it was found that the proposed parking spaces are
eighteen (18) feet in length rather than the twenty (20) required
in Section 179-7. It is likely that this situation can be remedied
during the site plan review process."
MRS. EGGLESTON-And from the Town of Queensbury Beautification
Committee, Mrs. Marylee Gosline and Mrs. Margaret Seney, and they
gave preliminary approval with this statement, "Request is for
increased parking and landscaping, 50' zoning variance in rear of
property. No change in building. Traffic island in front to be
moved closer to the road so cars can't park in front of it, and add
2 Dwarf Crimson King Maples. Storm management - catch basin in
back added and curb on side toward Jones property with 16 Lilac
- 37 -
Bushes proposed and 11 White Pine in back. Established 12 Pine
tree line toward church to remain. Number of parking spaces - 38 -
has been addressed. No change to dumpster (screened) in back.
Curb cut onto Aviation Road to be more defined. free standing metal
storage shed near back of building to remain. Preliminary approval
of plan outlined by Mary Anne Macica as Mrs. Gosline was excused
from voting and then did not have a quorum. Will review in
November. Applicant reminded original plantings approved in Nov.
1986 were never completed. In addition to the above Landscaping.
Screening and Planting Provisions, the Committee wishes to go on
record that it does not approve: 1. Non-conforming signs. and 2.
Plastic or artificial trees. shrubs or flowers. In approving the
above (or attached plans). the Committee has the expressed or
implied agreement of the applicant to replace immediately dead
trees, shrubs, or plants, and to give proper maintenance to all
plantings. All rubbish containers or dumpsters shall be screened,
all plantings shall be mulched and trees shall be retained or
planted. as agreed."
MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further comment?
MRS. MACICA-Mary Anne Macica. Originally. we did apply for two
variances. one was for parking and the other was a buffer. We were
able to fit in a number of required parking spaces.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Any questions?
MR. CARVIN-I have one question. When the Stewart's was originally
put in there. and I would guess that that's been in there for.
MRS. MACICA-Eight years.
MR. CARVIN-About eight years. I was going to say eight. That was
before the Ordinance? Yes, it would have been about '86. I was
just wondering. that was approved for 22 parking spots at that
point?
MRS. MACICA-I believe it was.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Who brought up the 35 or 36?
MRS. MACICA-It was a long story. We brought in. in fact. the
Church approached us regarding buying 60 feet of their land. at
which time we looked at increasing and adding two additional rental
units onto our store. At that point in time. in doing an as built
and submitting it to the Planning Department, it was noted that
there was quite a few deficiencies regarding the original proposed
si te plan. At that point in time, we were at the Planning
Department to correct what should have been.
MR. CARVIN-Up to the 36, even though it was approved back on the
old Ordinances at 22?
MRS. MACICA-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-And you're not making any structural changes to the
store at all?
MRS. MACICA-No.
MR. CARVIN-Do you need the 36 spaces?
MRS. MACICA-Every Monday afternoon. we need about 30 of them.
Monday afternoon we have a District meeting in the back. for our
northern district, for Stewarts.
MR. CARVIN-You're asking. I mean. again, that's why I wanted to get
the train here. I mean. to me it looks like we're losing a lot of
green area. We're going through a lot of rigamarol. for spaces
that are going to be used Monday afternoons, once a week. I mean.
- 38 -
the expense of going through this. you could buy a conference room
right at the Sheridan right up the street.
MR. THOMAS-You ought to go by there at noon time every other day.
They're parked up and down the road. You get run over there at
noon time.
MR. CARVIN-They're not parking.
MR. THOMAS-Yes, they are. They're in there for lunch.
MR. CARVIN-I've gone through there. three or four times, and it's
never been a problem.
MR. TURNER-I was there Sunday. and there was a lot of parking
spaces.
MR. THOMAS-Yes, during the week, Monday through Friday, right at
noon time.
MRS. MACICA-The majority of people are in there 10, 15 minutes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. it is a short.
MR. CARVIN-How many chairs. I mean. how many sit downs do you have
in there?
MRS. MACICA-Three booths.
MR. CARVIN-I just have a hard time with this.
MRS. CIPPERLY-There are also two commercial.
MRS. MACICA-There is a rental unit. which is a dry cleaners. again,
a ten minute in and out, normally, and the other is an office
space. which is one district manager and one employee.
MR. CARVIN-What I found is that the people were reluctant to park
up in these upper portions. I mean. everybody wants to park in
front. They're all lazy, lets face it.
MRS. MACICA-If reality comes into play. people will park double.
two deep in the front. before they park back here.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I mean, and all you're doing is creating more
space.
MR. TURNER-Just too far to the front door.
MRS. MACICA-It' s the same thing with handicapped parking. It
doesn't matter. they will park in front of the door. We would like
not to disturb as much of the green space as we have. We've cut
down. we are 34.9 percent green space, but one thing Stewart's does
not particularly care to do is make it blacktop ever.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, well, again, I don't have mathematics on this, but
it just comparing the two here. it looks like you're losing about,
probably a good 25 percent of the green space anyway. That's just
a rough guess on my part.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Were permeability studies done on that?
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I would guess that more than 80 percent of this is
going to be covered. So I would think that they're going to have
to have a permeability study.
MRS. MACICA-Yes, we're at 34.9 percent. We have to have a minimum
of 25 percent. and we're at 34.9 percent.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, but I'm just looking at. if you lop off this chunk
- 39 -
here, which is, about 25 percent of the green space that they've
got.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So actually any relief that we gave would not help
the every day traffic. It's only going to help the Monday
afternoon meeting.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-I don't go anywhere near the place. because you can't
get in there. With that company truck parked. people look twice.
MRS. CIPPERLY-One thing that I really didn't address in my notes,
that the applicant. I believe, mentioned, was that this could
provide for better traffic circulation around the building. because
right now you can't go around the building. Maybe that would let
people get out of the front.
MR. CARVIN-I don't think, you're not expanding the entrance. In
other words. you're still dealing with the same space. In fact. I
would have a question. and again. I don't know what Crimson King
Maples look like.
MRS. MACICA-They're just red Maple trees.
MR. CARVIN-But I know that. I would have a question on the
visibility. in other words. coming up. because that is a very. very
active road. and to put trees way in the line of sight. I'm
wondering if that's such a good idea. I wouldn't think so off
hand. visibly, a flat area there, and if you could put an island
there. but I mean, I'm just thinking of. you're plopping two trees.
and if you come out either side, you're looking up and down the
road. I just don't know if that's going to cause a visibility
problem. but as far as your actual frontage, that's going to remain
the same. essentially the same.
MR. KARPELES-Well. one of the parking problems that is there. that
you're so close to this green space that you can't really back uP.
because there's probably somebody in back of you. So. from that
point of view, it might help you. going around this side of the
building, it's going to open up that side. but are you serious when
you say you want all these spaces just for Monday afternoon?
MRS. MACICA-No. I'm serious that I was told I had to meet the
zoning requirements for parking.
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-They wanted to expand the building. but then they
couldn't because of the parking regulations.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-But it would appear to me that you have a parking
problem there right now.
MRS. MACICA-One day a week. yes. we do.
MR. KARPELES-I think more than one day a week. I think you're
underselling the need for this thing. to tell you the truth.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, as, she said, Bob. they don't utilize. that day
I was there. people do not park over here. They all park right in
here. in front of you, behind you. beside you. up and down.
MRS. MACICA-The parking spaces, 1 through 17. are currently there.
MR. KARPELES-Yes. but the door is way over here, on the right hand
- 40 -
side.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. that's what I mean.
MR. CARVIN-Everybody wants to park here. The door's going to be in
the same spot.
MR. KARPELES-Yes. but these are closer to the door than these are.
MR. TURNER-But there's eight parking spaces on that west side.
They don't even park in. There wasn't a soul in.
MISS HAUSER-I never park here because you've got people parking
along here, and you can't back out. to get out, but if they opened
it up here. then people, I think. would park here. and you wouldn't
have the people parking on the side of the bUilding. That's not
because I was lazy. It's just too hard to get out of that spot.
MR. CARVIN-I just think that most of the folks in there. it's more
of a transient parking, I mean. under five or ten minutes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. they figure they're going to be in and out. so
they park at the handiest spot. So they just park their car. half
of them don't even turn it off.
MR. TURNER-All right. I'll open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEHED
NO COMMEHT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
CORRESPOHDEHCE
MRS. EGGLESTON-A letter from Richard E. Jones Associates, 119
Aviation Road. "We have had the opportunity to review the plan
revisions as proposed by Stewarts for 123-125 Aviation Road. We
have a very strong objection to the reduction of the required
buffer zone from 50 feet to 26 feet. This reduction along with the
intention of placing a dumpster in the buffer diminishes the value
of residential property we own at the rear of the Stewarts
property. There is no reason that the dumpster and proposed truck
turn-around could not be placed along the eastern side of the
property. This would require shifting of the new parking along the
east property line toward Aviation Road. Stewarts would still be
able to maintain the requirement of 30% for green space.
Additionally, in reviewing the plan as proposed. Stewarts will be
required to request a variance for undersized parking spaces and
driving lanes of less than 20' along the west property line. There
is currently 44.08' from the corner of the building to the property
line. With as' buffer from the property line to the edge of
paving. a 20' long parking space, a 20' driveway and a 3' wide
sidewalk at the building, 48' will be needed. Also. they show
paving and parking over the septic system which is in violation of
the Town Sewage Disposal Ordinance. Please do not construe our
absence from this meeting to mean that we do not feel strongly
about these issues. We have a prior commitment and are unable to
attend. We appreciate the consideration of our position regarding
denial of this variance. Sincerely, Richard E. Jones, AIA"
They're architects.
MRS. MACICA-Could I address the fact that we are already deeper in
the buffer zone than we're showing here. We are encroaching almost
a double lane all the way back to the property line, a reduction
into the buffer zone. The paving over the septic system was done
eight years ago, with an approval from the Department of Health.
I did call Brian Fear for a letter from the Department of Health
regarding the fact that it was preexisting.
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MR. KARPELES-Looking at these
rationalizing their complaint. The
same place, at least on the plans.
closer.
two plans, I have trouble
dumpster appears to be in the
You're saying it actually is
MRS. MACICA-Yes, only about four or five feet.
MR. KARPELES-And there are more tree s in the ~ plan, which I
would think would give them more of a buffer than that have now.
Have they seen these plans?
MRS. MACICA-I believe so. Yes.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. It says, after reviewing the plan as proposed.
MRS. MACICA-We originally also moved a fence in between our
property and what would be the westerly line to the adjacent land,
and put in a fence. They had originally that instead of a fence,
it would be a good idea shrubberies be planted, and we were putting
16 Lilac Shrubs there.
MRS. CIPPERLY-This issue, though, came up that if they end up
making their parking spaces 20 feet long, there won't be room for
those Lilac bushes, and I believe someone is going to go to the
Planning Board meeting and discuss that feature, alternatives as
far as possibly putting them on the Jones property or what.
Another sort of site plan issue was that, with this many parking
spaces, she will need two handicapped spaces, and I discussed this
over the phone with the applicant, and we figured that by taking
spaces 24, 25, and 26, she could get the two handicappeds plus the
access zone.
MRS. MACICA-The letter from Rist-Frost also, though, states that
they don't want it set up as we did, with 11 foot handicapped
parking spots, with six feet in between. Rist-Frost indicates that
they want eight foot handicappeds with an eight foot in between.
MRS. CIPPERLY-You need the access. When we had talked on the
phone, we had said, eight feet for the spaces, and a five foot
access lane, so that eight foot would actually, but that's really
kind of a site plan issue.
MR. TURNER-Yes, but are they referring to the ANSI Code, which
requires it?
MRS. CIPPERLY-Yes. That's where the eight foot spaces, plus at
least a five foot access.
MRS. MACICA-We have a six foot access, with eleven foot spaces.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further questions of the applicant?
Motion's in order.
Okay.
MRS. EGGLESTON-For myself, I think the buffer's very important
between the commercial section of Aviation Road and that
residential section in the back, that starts with the school and
comes this way.
MR. TURNER-I don't see any better traffic flow around the building.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I don't think anything is going to help it, because
it's not effecting the front of the property, which is people
coming in while other people are trying to get out. They all park
in front. No matter what you do, they're going to still park right
here. They park their car, leave it in idle, run in the store.
They park in back of you, beside you, on top of you, if they could,
all right in this front part. So, I don't see how losing the green
space in the back, and destroying the buffer solves a darn thing.
MR. KARPELES-I'm confused.
Which buffer are you talking about?
- 42 -
The one on the west side, between the Church and the Stewarts?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MRS. MACICA-There isn't one between the residential and the
commercial. That was an incorrect error on the original site plan.
MRS. CIPPERLY-We're only addressing, on the rear of the building.
there should be a fifty foot wide buffer.
MR. KARPELES-What are you going to lose in the back?
MRS. EGGLESTON-Well. they're going to cut the buffer from fifty
feet to twenty-four.
MR. TURNER-Twenty-four feet.
MRS. MACICA-Which is still improving the buffer as it is now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-What is there now?
MRS. MACICA-Almost a double lane, where the dumpster is. you're
looking at almost 10 feet wide. It goes all the way back to the
tree line, inclusive of the tree line. and that tree line isn't
there right now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Did you have a variance for that to begin with?
MRS. MACICA-No. Over the course of eight years. it's been driven
over, and there was not ~ roadway put in.
MRS. KARPELES-That's what's got me confused. As I look at these
two plans. it looks like more of a buffer now than it does. coming
up than there is now.
MRS. MACICA-It is.
MRS. CIPPERLY-The actual green space that's being lost is on the
side toward the Church.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. but you're losing some into the buffer area.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. except for one little spot in the middle.
MR. CARVIN-Better than a third of the buffer in the back is all
green space, at this point. So it's not inclusive.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, so I don't know as it's an improvement.
MR. CARVIN-If you bring that road around, you actually are invading
the buffer, considerably.
MRS. MACICA-Lengthwise. it's not closer to the residential area.
It's actually bringing it closer from the residential area. but
invading it more at the 50 foot line.
MOTION TO DEHY AREA VARIANCE NO. 92-1993 STEWART'S ICE CREAM CO..
IHC., Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Joyce Eggleston:
The applicant is seeking relief from Section 179-72. which requires
a 50 foot buffer between commercial uses and residential uses. The
reason that the applicant is requesting this variance is to provide
a total of 37 parking spaces, which would be required based upon
the current floor area. The applicant has not demonstrated a need
for these 37 total parking spaces, by that it would increase
business, or be more beneficial to the operation of the business,
and from all indications has managed with the current 22 parking
spaces. So by restructuring just the parking into the buffer zone
doesn't appear to be a real practical difficulty. I think also by
- 43 -
granting this variance it would be detrimental to the neighborhood
and other properties in the area. and I think just for the simple
sake of having more parking spaces is really no justification for
this variance.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October. 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Carvin. Mrs. Eggleston, Miss Hauser. Mr. Turner
NOES: Mr. Thomas, Mr. Karpeles
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
MRS. MACICA-I was told I needed to get more parking spaces. What
do I do? I mean. the planners told me to get more parking in
there.
MR. CARVIN-Which planners?
MRS. MACICA-Jim Martin.
MR. CARVIN-I think we're saying that it's not necessary.
MR. TURNER-Not necessary.
MR. CARVIN-That we've given you a variance, in essence. See. this
was preexisting.
MRS. MACICA-Exactly.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. So, I mean. you must have complied to the 22
spaces when this was built back in 1985. '86. The only reason I
think that, and again. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but
I think the only reason he brought up the 36 or 37 parking spaces.
is because you were intending on expanding the business. Is that
correct?
MRS. MACICA-No. I sat down with he and Scott. numerous times. He
told me I had to bring it up to the 37 parking spaces.
MRS. EGGLESTON-But what generated the whole thing?
MRS. MACICA-Well, originally when we were putting on an addition.
and they said, by the way, you need 37, for what you have existing.
you need to change your current site plan.
MR. CARVIN-When was the addition put on?
MRS. MACICA-It wasn't. We never got approval for that. We stopped
the whole idea.
MR. CARVIN-So. therefore. you don't need the 37.
MRS. MACICA-There was 46 needed for that. All right. We scrapped
the addition, and Scott and Jim sat down and said, what you need to
bring it to 37 for what you have existing right now. So you're
going to need to go for a variance for parking to get your parking.
MR. TURNER-Well. I guess what Mr. Carvin says. they didn't agree
with Jim and Scott.
MRS. EGGLESTON-So we've saved you money.
MRS. MACICA-Basically, as I see it now, what we need to do is go
before the Planning Board. move the dumpster inside and not
increase the parking area.
MR. TURNER-It looks like it.
MRS. EGGLESTON-They don't have to go any further. do they?
It's
- 44 -
denied.
MR. TURNER-Not really. They don't have to if they don't want to.
You're site is your site now.
MRS. EGGLESTON-As it is.
MR. TURNER-As it is.
MRS. MACICA-Thank you.
USE VARIANCE NO. 96-1993 TYPE: UNLISTED RR-3A SONNY SPAHH
OWHER: SAME AS ABOVE 51 AVIATION ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
DIVIDE BUILDIHG CURRENTLY HOLDING A USE VARIANCE FOR A BEAUTY SALON
IHTO THREE (3) PROFESSIONAL OFFICES IH A RURAL RESIDENTIAL 3 ACRE
ZOHE. (WARREN COUHTY PLANHIHG) DATE: 10/13/93 TAX MAP HUMBER:
73-1-17 LOT SIZE: 117 FT. BY 124 FT.
MICHAEL MULLER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MRS. EGGLESTON-And the Warren County Planning Board disapproved
with the following comment, "Based on the problems of the future
widening of the road, the problem of egress and the increased use
of the property from one business to three professional offices."
STAFF IHPUT
Notes from Staff, Use Variance No. 96-1993, Sonny Spahn. Meeting
Date: October 27, 1993 "ADDRESS OF PROPERTY. Aviation Road, just
west of Exit 19. SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Variance Number 1288 was
approved June 15, 1988. This allowed the operation of a beauty
parlor at this location. The beauty parlor tenant closed in
October 1992, and the owner has been trying since then to find
another beauty parlor tenant, without success. Since a beauty
parlor can be considered a professional office use, the applicant
was advised by staff that he could utilize the building for
professional office space. Sensing that the rent required for the
entire building may be too high for one tenant, the applicant is
proposing to divide the building into three (3) professional office
spaces. CONFORMANCE WITH USEIAREA REGULATIONS: Section 179-15,
Rural Residential 3A does not allow professional office as a
principal use. Deed restrictions affecting the parcel prohibit
rezoning it, even though the surrounding land use and zoning
patterns are no longer residential. REVIEW CRITERIA: 1. IS A
REASONABLE RETURN POSSIBLE IF THE LAND IS USED AS ZOHED? Applicant
states that he has been attempting to find a tenant for the
building for a year now. Residential use is not a possibility. 2.
ARE THE CIRCUMSTAHCES OF THIS LOT UHIQUE AND NOT DUE TO THE
UHREASONABLEHESS OF THE ORDINAHCE? The circumstances of this lot
are due to the construction of the Northway through what used to be
the adjoining residential area. This is the only house in the
area. Other uses include schools, churches, and commercial. 3.
IS THERE AN ADVERSE EFFECT OH THE HEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER? There
would not be an adverse effect on the neighborhood character.
STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: Staff has no further comment."
MR. MULLER-For the record, my name is Michael Muller, and I
represent Mr. Spahn. The application started out, Mr. Spahn filled
it out himself, hoping that he could get a variance to use the
building for three professional office spaces, and it has not been
favorably received by the County Planning Board. He certainly
wants to use the building, and every possible thing that he could
use this building for seems to require a variance. I've provided
for you, to review with me, the background information, because
it's incumbent upon this applicant to demonstrate a hardship if a
variance, a use variance. is going to be approved. Some of the
people on the Board when Elaina Bissell came before this Board in
1988 to obtain her variance for the use of this property as a
beauty parlor and sort of like exercise facility. She did exercise
in there, didn't she?
- 45 -
SONNY SPAHN
MR. SPAHN-Yes.
MR. MULLER-Yes. This piece of property, if you go back in history,
it's part of the subdivision that's actually on the easterly side
of the Adirondack Northway. It was the only house that was built
on the wrong side of the Northway. It was those restrictive
covenants that are in those streets like Greenway North and things
like that. It took a judicial petition from the Supreme Court to
unwind the restrictive covenants so that it would no longer be
prohibited for the typical uses you might expect there. In other
words, it was restricted to residential use. Then the piece of
property was acquired by Elaina Bissell. and quite frankly, I don't
know what she paid for it, but she was not successful in her
business at that location as a beauty parlor. Mr. Spahn acquired
the property at a foreclosure sale. Glens Falls National Bank
foreclosed, and at that foreclosure sale. it was a sale which he
paid $167,150 and was responsible for paying the back taxes, and to
protect the building from, basically. acting like a shower. He had
to put a roof on that. So his basis in the property is $198.000.
Now there is a photocopy of a photo in the little package I gave
you. and unfortunately the photo didn't come out all that well.
So. I'm going to pass around this photo.
MRS. EGGLESTON-We already got it. This one?
MR. MULLER-Yes. Okay. That's good. The property that we're
looking at, I think that when Mr. Spahn. when he was helped in
filling out this application at the Planning Office. They have the
lot size at 117 by 124. Well, that's true, if we're talking about
the useful portion of the property. but that property is larger
than that, and it's demonstrated as one. When you look at that
one, that's much larger than 117 by 124, but it's got the highway
right-of-way, it's favored by Aviation Road in there. What Elaina
Bissell managed to do when she also owned it as a beauty parlor was
that she acquired this portion of the property from DeSantis
Enterprises. but by deeds, for reasons known only to her.
restricted this property so it cannot be used for anything that is
involved with food or beverage sales. So that's out, even if it
were permitted within the zone. If for some reason we all thought
that would be a good use for this property, that's not even
available to it. and it would not be a piece of property, for other
reasons, likely to be a restaurant, a fastfood. It's within close
proximity to the school, close proximity to the Church. It could
never get a liquor license. It would not be a liquor store. So.
if you take a look at our expenses on this particular piece of
property. it's assessed. recently, at about $148.000. which I tried
unsuccessfully, by the way, to get a reduction on, and I showed to
the Grievance Board that the house at the time of foreclosure sale.
right after it, was completely cleaned out, that is Elaina took
everything that was in there. I'm talking about the sinks, the
toilets, the bathtub, the lights, everything. So, it was gutted on
the inside, and it remains so at this point. So it's just not
habitable if you were going to put a requirement on Mr. Spahn to
make it back into a house. That's assuming that it's a house in,
the right spot for anything. When we look at this piece of
property, it's annual taxes are $4.000. Mortgage interest on this
particular piece of property , annually. $19.500. Hi s annual
insurance is $900. We put a provision for repairs in there of
$1500 a year. To cover that, he's got to collect rent in excess of
$2.000 per month, to make a reasonable return on this investment,
and there's just no takers. It's been for sale. if you drove by it
even before this application was generated. I'm sure you noticed
that there was a sign there for before electioneering started. Now
there's about 20 signs there. but the key sign is the one that it
was for sale. or for rent, or for lease or for trade. It was
anything. What Mr. Spahn would like to do is just be the
owner/operator of this thing. and it's in this proposal here. that
is he proposes that if, professional uses are just not going to fit
- 46 -
in here. The people are concerned about the traffic impact, that's
just covering too much of the building with too many multiple uses.
He and I sat down and discussed what would be the least intensive
use of the premises, and you'll see on this proposal that I
submitted to you that it says that he would like to open up a
retail store that's service oriented. The best description I could
gi ve to you of what he proposes is that it be office personal
stationary supply. It would provide photocopying, computer
printing. In other words, you go in there and they'll print
something for you on their computer, package wrapping, and once a
day UPS will come and pick up packages, like a drop spot, something
like Ship Shape. You'll see a sentence here that says, in addition
to the primary use that he be allowed to have a barber shop or a
beauty shop. He proposed it. I didn't like it. I did have a
chance to talk him out of it, and he withdraws that at this time.
He doesn't want it. I think that we have what is proposed as a
reasonable use. One use, owner occupied. He's in there. His
son's in there. He thinks that he can generate enough income from
an owner operated business, this business that he proposing here,
to cover the reasonable expenses of that property. How he plans to
utilize the property is that he's going to maintain that parking
plan as has already been approved by this Board, back in 1988. I
made that a part of this package. If you recall, or if you don't
recall, let the record now reflect that that parking plan has two
handicapped spaces in the front, many parking spaces in the back,
10 or 11, and those are 10 by 20 spaces. They're to the rear of
the property. It's already gravelled, and that's what you can see
from the photograph. That was parking deemed sufficient for four
beauticians, and whatever else seemed to be going on there. I
never really understood what Elaina Bissell did, but she did
something else where she wrapped bodies. I'm not an expert in that
area. I've taken a look at this Zoning Ordinance. It's RR-3, and
I think if you're honest about it, you know that this does not
belong in RR-3. What in God's name is RR-3 doing up there? And
you would like to think that, well, that's what it was 40 years
ago, but you know it's not. That was re-done in 1989, right?
MR. TURNER-'88.
MR. MULLER-But it's not RR-3, because look at the uses in the RR-3
zone, and after you get through a residence, which this could never
be. every headlight that comes off of Exit 19, at that ramp there,
has managed to shine it's lights allover this thing, and there's
no one interested in it as a residence. Other principal uses were
timbering harvesting, or hunting and fishing camp. Anybody want to
suggest that that's a good use? So we're down into site plan
review uses, Type I, and that, again, involves timber harvesting,
commercial greenhouse, and bed and breakfast in an APA Rural Use
area. There's no possibility of a Type I use there. The site plan
review uses Type II, I suggest to you are not realistic either.
Group camp, sand and gravel extraction, dog kennel or riding
stables, veterinary hospital, professional office incidental to a
residential use. That is a possibility. If there were ever a
professional came along and wanted to make that their residence, as
well as put the professional use there, I admit, but we had it on
the market and didn't have a taker, and certainly would have
encouraged anybody who had that use in mind. by all means. A golf
course, school, church, planned unit development, farm, commercial
greenhouse, produce stand, bed and breakfast. I don't really think
it's a good location for a bed and breakfast either. So, I hope
that I've persuaded you that no amount of marketing, no amount of
fancy dancing around this particular piece of property is going to
make it compatible with the use that you can find in the RR-3
schedule. So now we come to grips with what would be a good use,
that would not be taking advantage of the rest of the neighborhood,
assuming that there is a neighborhood. It would probably be
something that is not high traffic impact at that location. Mr.
Spahn tells me. and I was not at the County meeting, but he feels
he's satisfied that the County Planning Board missed the boat
completely when they gave it a no vote, because they had no idea
- 47 -
that there was a traffic control light at that intersection. There
is one. It's four way, and as he explained to me as we were seated
here tonight, he said that when you get the green light coming out
of this location. his location, it's like the parting of the Red
Sea. that is that the whole row is open for you. because you're the
only car in that lot coming out. He's got some other things here.
I had sent him to John Goralski at Richard Jones Associates to try
to plan, what could we do with this particular piece of property,
and both John and I came to the conclusion that it would be foolish
to make a major investment to improve this piece of property. do
something dramatic with it. other than take the building off the
lot, because the State of New York has a three to five year plan to
widen the bridge, make it a four laner. okay. So, it might very
well take that particular house with it. and if they do. they'll
compensate them. but in the meantime, it's unfair to ask Mr. Spahn
to support a $148.000 assessed piece of property. He paid $4.000
in taxes. and basically have this thing sitting there not really
usable. not realistically usable. I think that he's proposed a
moderate use for what you, as zoning judges. are being asked to
decide and give him some variances. I do not foresee any dramatic
changes in the building right off. other than it's going to be
spruced up, cleaned up, look like a business, and I think most
businesses take good care of their facades. He says Stage II, if
it's successful. and if there are no movements on the part of the
State, would be basically what were the other things you were
talking about?
MR. SPAHN-In the event the State does not take my property. and
I'll never get what I paid for it, because I did overpaid. because
the reason, I didn't know I was going to end up with the property.
I came to help Elaina out. She was going to lose not only the
business, but Glens Falls bank had, the mortgage was on her home as
well. So she would have lost the business and the home, and I just
came there to help her bid up the price, so she could get out of a
hole, and lo and behold, the Bank said, you've got it, and that's
how I ended up with this. I know I overpaid.
MR. MULLER-How were you going to fix up the building in the second
stage?
MR. SPAHN-Let the buyer beware. I'm sorry. I wasn't aware. The
second stage, if Phase II, if the State does not take it, I plan to
beautify the front of the building, to make it appear like it fit
into the Adirondack sense of decoration. and I intend to improve
the business, invest a lot more money. because I know that this
will be a business for my son who has a degree, and I've been a
businessman all my life. I'm retired now. and I just want to work
with him, to get him started, and hopefully you'll grant the
variance, and if the State does take my property in the next
several years, and I lose it, it's like granting a dying man his
last wish, for four years I'll have something to do, pay the taxes.
because believe me, I've advertised. As Mike mentioned, I've tried
to promoted. I've contacted oil companies. I've sent thousands of
letters out. Nobody wants it. I did get inquires for an
International Pancake House, as I explained, I can't have food. I
explained to the purchaser it would be impossible because of the
deed restrictions.
MR. MULLER-And the thing is I think you need your approval because
it would help improve that parcel. It looks like a missing tooth
in front of a nice smile when you come into Queensbury.
MR. TURNER-Yes. You're right. It's terrible.
MR. MULLER-And we need a majority plus one.
MR. TURNER-Does anyone have any questions?
MRS. EGGLESTON-It ranks right up there, Mike, with the Cement Plant
at Exit 18, which is the first visibility you see when you come
- 48 -
into the Town of Queensbury.
MR. MULLER-Well. Mrs. Eggleston. there was a time, if you remember,
when the first thing you saw when you came into Queensbury was the
Adirondack Northway.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, but now we see a trash plant, which you're well
aware of.
MR. KARPELES-Are you still looking to divide this into three
professional offices?
MR. MULLER-No. One unit. owner occupied, himself and one employee.
MR. KARPELES-That's what I thought you said. So, this isn't right,
what we've got here.
MR. MULLER-Well, it isn't. It's where it started. and it was not
right.
MR. CARVIN-When did you purchase this?
MR. SPAHN-It was over, about a year and a half ago.
MR. CARVIN-'91?
MR. SPAHN-It was 1991. No, I believe it was 1992.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, 1992. So a little more than a year or so.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Elaina rented this from you, Sonny, you said?
MR. SPAHN-Yes. Elaina rented to me. I tried to help her out.
because she was going through bankruptcy, personal bankruptcy as
well. and she had all these merchandise there. and she was paying
$1.000 for several months.
MRS. CIPPERLY-And the applicant brought in a rent receipt which
shows that the last month that it was rented to Elaina. or the last
month she paid rent for was September '92.
MR. MULLER-That was just about the time after the foreclosing.
MR. SPAHN-That was the last month she paid, September 1992.
MR. MULLER-As a zoner and as planners, you look at this, and Elaina
managed to. she had her first piece of property. which is now an
Econo Lodge. You remember that, where she wanted zero setbacks.
They abandoned that application and got this one. This one went
around. and it's sort of like, wherever she was. she left that
legacy on the piece of property that is, catastrophically. you've
got to do something.
MR. TURNER-She picked them out of a hat. for some reason. Yes.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Could I ask a question? You, in the course of all
this, have been discussing modifying the front of the house. and in
your discussion just now. it seemed like you were saying you
wouldn't modify the front until you find out whether the State.
MR. MULLER-To modify it would be the facade, you know. like a
different color. or different siding. We're not making it bigger.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Okay, because he had talked about evening up the
front of the house with the front of the garage.
MR. SPAHN-I would do that in what I would call Stage II, only if
the State didn't take it away.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Okay. So. right now you're not proposing to?
- 49 -
'-
MR. SPAHN-No, because the State told me, if you improve it, you're
not going to get any more money for improvements.
MR. MULLER-And he would need setback relief, would he not?
MR. SPAHN-No, because the garage part of it is back further than
the house. What I had intended in Phase II is bring the garage
part even with the front of the main house.
MR. MULLER-We would follow Mr. Martin's advice, whatever he wanted.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Yes. I just wondered whether that was an immediate
project.
MR. SPAHN-No. What I've done is because of the
everything, not knowing whether the State is going
take my property, I decided to call that Stage II.
be a Stage II.
expense and
to virtually
There may not
MRS. CIPPERLY-Okay. It's been an evolving application.
MR. MULLER-Yes, it has. I think this is the best idea of
everything that could be proposed, and maybe if I had had a chance
to speak with the planners at Warren County, and if they had
realized that there was a traffic light. they would have agreed.
MR. SPAHN-I mentioned it to them after they voted, and they didn't
even realize it.
MR. TURNER-They didn't even realize what they did. Well, you know,
as far as the Use Variance goes, I mean, the use has been
established with the previous variance, and the hardship that
applies to the property still applies to the property, for the
reasons that Mike stated.
MRS. CIPPERLY-The difference between this and the previous
variance, though, is that the previous variance would be a beauty
parlor/professional office. and what he's seeking to do would be a
commercial. So that's really what we're.
MR. TURNER-Yes, but again, by the same token, it's pretty much
commercial. You've got a gas station. You've got a church, and
another church, and you've got the school, and it's an isolated
piece of property that, really, you can't do anything with. I
mean, it's just in a poor, poor place, and like Mr. Spahn said,
buyer beware.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I have an additional question for Ted. is if we've
advertised this as what we've advertised it as. can we go ahead and
consider this, or should it be tabled and re-advertised?
MRS. EGGLESTON-The applicant proposes to divide building currently
holding a use variance for a beauty salon into three professional
offices in a Rural Residential Three Acre zone.
MR. TURNER-Yes. That's the problem right there.
advertised right.
It's not
MRS. CIPPERLY-If we changed what we're considering, it will go to
Warren County again.
MR. CARVIN-On the other hand we could condition it that only one
business be allowed in there. We can move on that, because we're
not expanding the advertising. We're actually limiting it. We're
not granting him the full variance.
MR. TURNER-The intensity is less. that's for sure.
MR. CARVIN-Well, no, what I'm saying is, if a motion is made, I
think we can live with the advertising, because we're advertising
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three. and we're only going to allow one.
MRS. EGGLESTON-If we were given five. that would be a problem, but
this is going in the other direction.
MRS. CIPPERLY-I was wondering, because of the change of use.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Well. again. in respect to that piece of property,
I don't care what you do there. You've got to do somet"hing
different than what was there. That never took off. and this might
not take off. We don't know. You'll never see anything else
there. It's a unique piece of property. It's stuck out there all
by its lonesome, in an RR-3 acre zone. It's just got cut right. out
of the.
MR. MULLER-At one time Charlie Wood, of the Great Escape, had his
sign on there. It was the last off premises sign ever permitted.
It was a little sign that lit up.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Let me open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
HO COMMEHT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
CORRESPONDEHCE
MRS. EGGLESTON-There is a phone conversation between the Queensbury
Hospitality, they're within the 500 feet radius, to Pam Whiting.
They received notification of the meeting and want to go on record
as being opposed to the variance. They don't feel a variance
should be granted. They don't want professional offices next to
their residential property. Their property loses appeal for
residential.
MR. CARVIN-Where exactly is that property?
MRS. EGGLESTON-I have no idea. Does anyone know?
MRS. CIPPERLY-I believe that's the parcel to the east.
MRS. EGGLESTON-It's the parcel to the north.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Yes. There's the driveway that goes in between those
two parcels.
MR. MULLER-Right. Mr. Cumnati would like to build a Holiday Inn
there.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Where is it. again?
MR. MULLER-Behind the property. It would be right here.
MRS. CIPPERLY-This is his property. This is an access road, well,
it's not a road. it's 50 foot wide piece that's right there, and
then there's this other parcel.
MR. CARVIN-I thought this was all part of the same parcel?
MRS. CIPPERLY-No.
MR. MULLER-There are two parcels. It shows all of his ownership.
but there are two parcels. We can't use the easterly portion of
this.
MRS. CIPPERLY-The Cumanti's.
MR. SPAHN-Right.
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MR. CARVIN-This is actual ownership. So that there's two parcels.
MRS. CIPPERLY-Right.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Motion's in order.
MR. CARVIN-I have a problem with it. This is probably the hardest
application to really look at, because it is such a terrible lot,
but I know I almost got clipped coming out of there, when I looked
at the property. I drove in, drove behind here, was coming out,
and the guy coming off the Northway could have given a rat's petute
whether I had the right-of-way or not. I mean, he came right
through there, and this is a very high intense area. Now, I feel
that this is a self-created hardship on a very dangerous corner,
and I think that any use there is just asking for trouble. We have
a situation not a half a mile down the road, right across from the
Aviation Mall where Greenway Road, or whatever. comes up out of
there, and you can have lights, flashing lights, and police and
whatnot, and I'm not saying that this is of the same magnitude, but
it's of the same style, and with the expansion coming through, I
mean, I don't think there's much question that that bridge is not
going to be expanded at some point. I just have real hard time of
putting almost anything in there. I realize the applicant has got
a real tough nut there.
MR. MULLER-Mr. Carvin, what I would response to you, and I'd like
you to consider this, is that, and I agree with you. This is a
very tough piece of property. So we tried to propose the least
intensified use of that site. To say no, part of your no should be
thinking about, what would you like to see there, and I think what
you'd like to see there is no use of the property, and that's
basically a taking of this piece of property.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, but he bought it in a foreclosure sale.
MR. MULLER-I won't even argue about that and that he paid too much
for it. I would argue the $148,000 assessment of the property,
that's what Mrs. Otte says the piece of property is worth, because
it is situated where it is and has the possible uses that it does.
I mean, I got confronted with that when I made that presentation.
They think it's a $150,000 piece of property. So if you say no,
we're stuck with a·$150,000 piece of property we can do nothing
with.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. MULLER-Please tell me what you think we could do. We're open
to suggestions.
MR. CARVIN-As I said, this is the hardest application to weigh. I
just come back to, and I know that that's a dangerous situation
there. I realize that it's probably the least amount of intensity,
but I just have a real hard time with it. That's my position.
MRS. EGGLESTON-I don't have a problem with it. I think it's
unsightly. It could be years before the State decides to do
anything with it. It's a real eyesore, and I think if there's any
way that it can be improved and still preserve the rights of the
person that now owns it, that I don't have a problem with it.
MR. TURNER-I don't have a problem with it.
MR. THOMAS-No.
MR. TURNER-I think he has the right to use the property, even
though he bought it at a tax sale, and our concern, the last time
around, with Mrs. Bissell, was traffic, with ingress and egress.
Remember, Mike? I think we conditioned only a right hand turn out
of there.
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MR. MULLER-That was before the light.
MR. TURNER-Right, and that was before the light.
light there.
There was no
MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes, there was a condition on that, only a right-
hand turn.
MR. MULLER-We have no problem, again, if you want to do that. I'm
just telling you that we're desperate to have permission to use it
for something.
MRS. EGGLESTON-Are we ready for a motion?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MOTIOH TO APPROVE USE VARIANCE HO. 96-1993 SOHHY SPAHN, Introduced
by Joyce Eggleston who moved for its adoption, seconded by Theodore
Turner:
Grant relief from Section 179-15, the Rural Residential 3A Zone,
which does not allow professional offices as a principal use. This
would be a commercial business, for an office and personal
stationary supply store, that would provide photocopying. computer
printing, package wrapping, and United Parcel Service pick-up. The
applicant, through competent financial evidence, has demonstrated
that he is deprived of all economic use or benefit from the
property, and that the hardship relating to the property in
question is unique, this being that because the property is in an
RR-3 acre zone, there is no way this property could be used for any
listing in the schedule under that zone. It is surrounded by
Adirondack Northway, Aviation Road, and Queensbury High School. I
believe this to be the minimum request by the applicant in order to
preserve his rights to use the property and obtain a reasonable
financial return. I don't believe it'll alter the character of the
neighborhood. As a matter of fact. it should improve the unsightly
conditions of the property that now exist at Exit 19 of the
Adirondack Northway. I condition this approval on the applicant
putting up signs that limit egress to a right hand turn only.
There is little opposition to this request, and I feel this is the
minimum relief necessary to alleviate the hardship.
Duly adopted this 27th day of October, 1993, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mrs. Eggleston. Miss Hauser, Mr. Thomas.
Mr. Turner
NOES: Mr. Carvin
ABSENT: Mr. Philo
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Theodore Turner, Chairman
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