1994-04-21 SP
,r-"
-
ORIGINAL
QUEENSBURY ZONINC BOARD OF APPEALS
SPECIAL MEETINC
APRIL 21ST, 1994
INDEX
Area Variance No. 19-1994 Joel & Bonnie Holden l.
Area Variance No. 17-1994 Thomas Corbett 4.
Use Variance No. 14-1994 Double A Provisions 6.
Area Variance No. 15-1994 Double A Provisions 15.
Area Variance No. 22-1994 Pyramid Company of GF 15.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
QUEENSBURY ZON I NG BOARD OF APPEALS
SPECIAL MEETING
APRIL 21ST, 1994
7:30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
THEODORE TURNER, CHA I RMAN
FRED CARVIN
CHRIS THOMAS
ANTHONY MARESCO
DAVID MENTER
MEMBERS ABSENT
LINDA HAUSER
ROBERT KARPELES
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
PLANNER-SUSAN CIPPERLY
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 19-1994 TYPE II UR-10 JOEL & BONNIE HOLDEN
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 21 COTTAGE HILL ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES
TO ADD A SEVEN (7) FOOT BY TWENTY-FooR (24) FOOT OPEN PORCH,
EIGHT (8) FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, ON THE FRONT OF A PRE-
EXISTING, NONCONFORMING HOOSE. SECTION 179-17C, REQUIRES A SIDE
YARD SETBACK OF TEN (10) FEET, SO APPLICANT IS SEEKING RELIEF OF
TWO (2) FEET. TAX MAP NO. 91-4-12 LOT SIZE: 0.16 ACRES
SECTION 179-17C
JOEL HOLDEN, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 19-1994, Joel and Bonnie
Holden, Meeting Date: April 21, 1994 "APPLICANT: Joel and
Bonnie Holden PROJECT LOCATION: 21 Cottage Hill Road PROPOSED
ACTION: Applicant proposes to add a seven (7) foot by twenty-two
(22) foot open porch on the front of a pre-existing,
nonconforming house on a 0.17 acre lot. CONFORMANCE WITH
USE/AREA REGULATIONS: Section 179-17C requires a side yard
setback of ten (10) feet, so applicant is seeking relief of two
(2) feet. The same Section requires a front setback of thirty
(30) feet, so applicant is seeking relief of ten (10) feet.
REASON FOR VARIANCE REQUEST AND BENEFIT TO APPLICANT: Applicant
wants to have a porch, and needs a variance to make it line up
with the house and to make it a reasonable width. FEASIBLE
ALTERNATIVES: Making the porch twenty (20) feet long instead of
twenty-two (22), or shifting its location on the house, would
eliminate the need for a variance from the side setbacks. There
do not appear to be any real alternatives for the front setback.
IS THIS RELIEF SUBSTANTIAL?: The applicant does not appear to be
asking for an excessive amount of relief. EFFECTS ON THE
NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY: There do not appear to be any adverse
impacts on the neighborhood. No public conment has been
received. IS THIS DIFFICULTY SELF-CREATED?: The difficulty
seems to relate to the original size of the lots and siting of
houses in this area in relation to current zoning. PARCEL
HISTORY: The house was built in 1950. There have been no
previous variances. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: The 32 foot
distance indicated on the plan is actually the distance to the
road, rather than the property line. The distance to the
property line is actually 27 feet."
MR. TURNER-Okay. There was a suggestion made by Staff that maybe
- 1 -
you reduce your front porch by two feet. Could you do that and
not seek a variance in that respect?
MR. HOLDEN-Yes. We were looking at that, but when
over to the end of the house, over 22 feet, cut it
it would be right in front of the window.
we were going
back 2 feet,
MR. TURNER-Right in the window. How
still, do you still need that much
window extend beyond that part?
close could you come, and
relief? How far does the
MR. HOLDEN-The twenty-two feet would be in the middle of two
windows.
MR. MENTER-Is it the left side setback or the right side setback?
MS. CIPPERLY-That's the left side. The existing house is eight
feet.
MR. TURNER-Has anyone else got any questions?
MR. CARVIN-I haven't seen a map of this, Ted.
MR. TURNER-The basic problem is that that's really the first
subdivision the Town of Queensbury has ever built.
MR. MENTER-I have a question. You're proposing to put the porch
as you face the house on the left side.
MR. HOLDEN-As you face the house by the road?
MR. MENTER-Yes, on the left, the far left side of the house?
MR. HOLDEN-As you're facing the house on the right side.
MR. MENTER-Okay. So that's incorrect. That drawing, I think, is
incorrect right there.
MR. CARVIN-It should be the mirror image from over here?
MR. MENTER-I think what he's proposing, no. This is Cottage
Hill. What he's proposing to do is start at this corner of the
house and come back 27 feet that way.
MR. TURNER-Is that correct?
Now where are you starting?
All right. There's Cottage Hill.
Are you starting from this side?
MR. HOLDEN-From this end.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MR. THOMAS-The driveway side.
MR. HOLDEN-And there's two other windows here.
MR. MENTER-It would be right on this corner, right?
MR. TURNER-Yes, right.
MR. THOMAS-There's 22 feet, right across, like that, right here.
MR. MENTER-What's the length of the house, front of the house?
MR. THOMAS-Thirty-four and a half, thirty-five.
MR. MENTER-So, you've got 35 overall. Now, you're taking off 22.
So the end of your deck is going to be 8 foot plus 35 minus the
22, which is (lost word), that's your setback over here, which is
going to be 20 feet, on this side. I don't know what it does to
t.he setback on this side. You should have 20 feet over here.
- 2 -
MR. TURNER-There's the property, so you've got eight.
MR. THOMAS-The heavy line's the property line.
MR. TURNER-That arrow's wrong.
MR. THOMAS-Yes. See, from there to that mark is about 21 feet.
MR. MENTER-Yes. Thirty-five minus twenty-two would be thirteen,
plus the eight is twenty-one. So you've got twenty-one setback
on this side, and on the other side you've got, what did you say,
eighteen? So you're okay. I mean, your side setbacks are fine.
It's just the front setback that's an issue here.
MR. TURNER-Yes, you're right, Dave.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So the side is okay then.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-It's just the front, it's the 20 feet. You need a 10
foot variance.
MR. CARVIN-Just from the front, then.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-He's building it from right to left, right?
MR. THOMAS-Yes, from the driveway side.
MR. CARVIN-Over, yes.
MR. TURNER-Sue, the map was drawn incorrectly, the drawing here.
It's from the right to the left, looking at the house.
MR. MENTER-From the right front corner of the house.
MR. TURNER-He doesn't need any relief at all on the side. He
just needs the relief from the front.
MR. MARTIN-All right. It's still a 22 foot wide porch?
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Thank you.
feet's the only issue. Okay.
Okay. No further questions? Ten
I'll open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TURNER-Any further discussion? No discussion?
order.
Mot.ion's in
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 19-1994 JOEL & BONNIE
HOLDEN, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Fred Carvin:
The applicant proposes to add a seven foot by twenty-two foot
open porch on the front of a preexisting nonconforming house on
.17 acre lot. This would grant the applicant relief from the
front yard setback of a required 30 feet, and grant him relief of
10 feet. The applicant, in order to put a porch on his house,
with the size of the lot, 60 foot wide, and the applicant would
need a variance to do pretty much anything in the front yard, due
to the closeness of the building to the road. This is a
preexisting subdivision, built in the late 1940's, when there was
- 3 -
a lot of land in Queensbury, and there wasn't any problems such
as lot sizes, and no Ordinance to deal with. Is the relief
substantial? No. There's no effect on the neighborhood or the
community. The difficulty is not self created. This is the
minimum relief to alleviate the specific practical difficulty.
Duly adopted this 21st day of April, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES:
Turner
Mr. Menter, Mr. Maresco, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Thomas, Mr.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Miss Hauser, Mr. Karpeles
,
AREA VARIANCE NO. 17-1994 TYPE II UR-l0 THOMAS CORBETT OWNER:
SAME AS ABOVE 592 DIXON ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO EXPAND A
PRE-EXISTING, NONCONFORMING RESIDENCE ON A PRE-EXISTING,
NONCONFORMING LOT. SECTION 179-17C REQUIRES A SIDE YARD SETBACK
OF TEN (10) FEET, APPLICANT SEEKS RELIEF OF FIVE (5) FEET. TAX
MAP NO. 91-5-13 LOT SIZE: 7,200 SQ. FT. SECTION 179-17C
ROBERT BALOGH, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 17-1994, Thomas Corbett,
Meeting Date: April 21, 1994 "APPLICANT: Thomas Corbett
PROJECT LOCATION: 592 Dixon Road PROPOSED ACTION: Applicant
proposes to construct a 12 ft. by 24 ft. addition to a pre-
existing, nonconforming house. The addition would provide a
diningroom and screened porch. CONFORMANCE WITH USE/AREA
REGULATIONS: Section 179-17C requires a side setback of ten (10)
feet, applicant seeks relief of five (5) feet. REASON FOR
VARIANCE REQUEST, AND BENEFIT TO APPLICANT: Applicant would like
more room, and it is difficult to add on, considering the lot
size of 7,200 square feet and width of 60 feet. FEASIBLE
ALTERNATIVES: The applicant does not believe there is a feasible
alternative. Making the addition narrower would yield an
unusable room. Interior layout requires this design. IS THIS
RELIEF SUBSTANTIAL?: The relief is 50% of the required setback.
EFFECTS ON NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY? There has been no comment
from the neighbors concerning this project. IS THIS DIFFICULTY
SELF-CREATED?: The small lot size and setbacks used when the
house was built in 1950 are the difficulty in conforming with
today's regulations. PARCEL HISTORY: The house was built in
1950, no other variances have been granted. STAFF COMMENTS AND
CONCERNS: No further comment."
MR. TURNER-Okay. Do you have any further comment to make, in
respect to the application?
MR. BALOGH-Not really.
MR. TURNER-This is the same subdivision.
MR. CARVIN-Bob, do you have a floor plan of the house, the
existing house?
MR. BALOGH-No, I don't. It's a short ranch.
MR. TURNER-How does the proposed dining area, is the kitchen in
the area near the diningroom?
MR. BALOGH-Okay. Right, in the front is the livingroom, on the
same end is the diningroom. Right behind that is the kitchen.
So this would be adjoining the kitchen, and right now they've got
(lost word) through the back with the sliding glass door.
MR. TURNER-Any thought given to putting it in the back? How
- 4 -
would it work out, as far as the floor plan?
MR. BALOGH-I guess it could be physically done, but it would take
lot of the yard up, a lot of space in the yard.
MR. TURNER-The roof pitches that way anyway, front to back.
MR. BALOGH-Right, the pitch of the addition would be the same
direction as the main house.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. MARESCO-You said the kitchen is right there. So the kitchen
will go right into the diningroom.
MR. BALOGH-Right.
MR. MENTER-Would that proposed porch be, how does that work back
there? Would that be in addition to the existing porch, or, how
does that tie in?
MR. BALOGH-Well, there is a little existing patio, no back, no
rail, no anything, you know, we're just going to close that up.
MR. TURNER-That's not too big, six by twelve. Okay. Any further
questions?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. The only one I've got is, there's an existing
eight by eight storage shed. Where is that going to go?
MR. BALOGH-We were going to move it towards the back yard.
MR. TURNER-Yes. You're going to incorporate that in the back
yard some place?
MR. BALOGH-Yes.
MR. TURNER-Probably in that far corner.
MR. BALOGH-Right.
now.
We want it pretty far away from where it is
MR. TURNER-Okay.
hearing.
No further questions? I'll open the public
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TURNER-Okay. Motion's in order. Any discussion first? Is
everybody satisfied? I don't have a problem with it.
MR. THOMAS-I'm all set.
MR. TURNER-I'll do it again.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA
Introduced by Theodore
seconded by Chris Thomas:
VARIANCE NO.
Turner who
17-1994
moved for
THOMAS CORBETT,
its adoption,
Applicant proposes to construct a 12 ft. by 24 ft. addition to a
preexisting nonconforming house. This would provide a dining
room and screened in porch. The applicant seeks relief from
Section 179-17C, which requires a 10 foot side yard setback, and
seeks relief of 5 feet. Feasible alternative, due to layout of
the house, it's the most feasible spot to put the addition which
incorporates that dining room and also takes into consideration
the back door and the porch area. The pitch of the roof kind of
- 5 -
determines the aesthetic look of the house, the layout of the
house as proposed. Yes, the relief is substantial, but there's
no effect on the neighborhood or the community. There's no
public opposition. It's not a self-created hardship, since,
again, this is a subdivision that was built in the 1950's, and
this is the minimum relief to alleviate the specific practical
difficulty.
Duly adopted this 21st day of April, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES:
Turner
Mr. Menter, Mr. Maresco, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Thomas, Mr.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Miss Hauser, Mr. Karpeles
USE VARIANCE NO. 14-1994 TYPE: UNLISTED CR-15 DOUBLE A
PROVISIONS OWNER: BEN ARONSON 64 MAIN STREET APPLICANT SEEKS
TO EXPAND A PRE-EXISTING, NONCONFORMING USE AND HAS FILED A USE
VARIANCE PER SECTION 179-79(D), WHICH STATES THAT ANY
NONCONFORMING USE MAY BE INCREASED ONLY BY VARIANCE GRANTED BY
THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. (BEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE) 4/11/94
(WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 4/13/94 TAX MAP NO. 134-6-1, 14 LOT
SIZE: 0.61 ACRES, 0.21 ACRES SECTION 179-79(D)
FRANK LEO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Use Variance No. 14-1994, Double A Provisions,
Meeting Date: April 21, 1994 "APPLICANT: Double A Provisions
PROJECT LOCATION: 64 Main Street SUMMARY OF PROJECT: Applicant
proposes to build a sixty (60) by thirty-two (32) foot addition
to a pre-existing, nonconforming structure. CONFORMANCE WITH
USE/AREA REGULATIONS: Section 179-79(D) requires a Use Variance
for increase of any nonconforming use. An associated Area
Variance is also on the Agenda. REVIEW CRITERIA, BASED ON
SECTION 267-b OF TOWN LAW: 1. IS A REASONABLE RETURN POSSIBLE
If THE LAND IS USED AS ZONED? The applicant believes the
expansion is necessary to conduct the business. No financial
information has been provided to substantiate this assertion. 2.
IS THE ALLEGED HARDSHIP RELATING TO THIS PROPERTY UNIQUE, OR DOES
IT ALSO APPLY TO A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE DISTRICT OR
NEIGHBORHOOD? The applicant operates a Light Industrial use in a
Commercial Residential zone, and is unique in the neighborhood.
3. IS THERE AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE
NEIGHBORHOOD? Comments both in favor and against this project
have been received. Those in favor note the well-kept condition
of the property. Adverse comment from a neighbor, Mrs. Myrtle
Lily, directly west of Double-A, expressed strong concern over
problems with parking and truck use. She noted that currently
there are often 8-10 tractor trailers, plus employee parking and
customer parking, with numbers ranging from 20-50 vehicles, with
summer being the busiest time. She has had trouble with trucks
using her driveway, her lawn, and knocking over her mailbox three
times. She noted that while the troubles have decreased in
recent months, an expansion of the building would eliminate area
currently used for parking, and possibly increase the amount of
business being done on the property. Mrs. Lily's concerns were
expressed via a phone conversation, because she was leaving town,
and not able to attend the meeting. 4. IS THIS THE MINIMUM
VARIANCE NECESSARY TO ADDRESS THE UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP PROVEN BY
THE APPLICANT AND AT THE SAME TIME PROTECT THE CHARACTER OF THE
NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY?
The applicant states that this is the minimum variance necessary
to satisfy their needs. PARCEL HISTORY: According to the Town
Assessor's Office, the business started in 1984. Since that
time, the following actions involving variances have occurred:
Area Variance No. 1287 - Approved for a 24 ft. by 30 ft. addition
- 6 -
for cold storage, requiring side and rear setback relief. Area
Variance No. 29-1992 - Approved placement of a freestanding walk-
in freezer (14 ft. by 22 ft.) to the rear of the existing
building with less than required rear setbacks. Area Variance
No. 94-1992 - Proposal for placement of a cooler adjacent to
existing freezer and cooler. Permeability will be less than the
required amount. This was tabled and withdrawn by the applicant
December, 1992. At that time, the applicant had plans to
purchase an additional parcel to the rear, which would help
alleviate the lack of setbacks and permeability. The rear
parcel, No. 134-6-14 was purchased, the house torn down, and the
lot was covered with gravel. While the setback situation was
improved, the permeability was not. A Use Variance should have
been applied for at that time, to expand the nonconforming use
into the CR parcel, but this was not done. STAFF COMMENTS AND
CONCERNS: It appears that when it was decided to utilize this
property for this business, the eventual need for expansion was
greatly underestimated, since this is the fourth time the
applicant has appeared before the Zoning Board in seven years,
each time with a sizeable expansion proposed. The activity has
already encroached on an additional parcel beyond the original
area utilized by the nonconforming use. It can fairly be
concluded that the expansions have brought an increase in
activity and truck traffic to the site and the neighborhood. In
reviewing the files, documentation was found for Mrs. Lilly's
concerns about the trucks. A former Zoning Administrator wrote
to the applicant in 1989 asking his cooperation in controlling
the problems caused by the trucks, and noted that a Town street
sign has also been knocked down by the trucks. The existing
warehouse is 6,306 square feet, requiring 7 parking spaces, plus
1 for each company-owned vehicle. The retail space totals 1,776
square feet, requiring 18 parking spaces. The proposed
additional warehouse space, 1,920 square feet, would require an
additional 2 spaces. This means 27 spaces, plus those for
company-owned vehicles. Considering that much of the site cannot
be used for parking due to the need for loading dock access, it
does not appear possible to meet the requirements."
MR. THOMAS-And the Warren County Planning Board, dated April
13th, 1994, "At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board
held on the 13th day of April 1994, the above application for a
Use Variance to construct an addition to the pre-existing
business was reviewed, and the following action was taken,
Recommended to Approve, as long as the neighbors have no
objections. Thomas Haley, Chairperson"
MR. TURNER-Mr. Leo. Frank, we've got growing problems?
MR. LEO-Yes. We've got growing problems.
MR. TURNER-Where is it going to stop? We're running out of land,
in that area.
MR. LEO-In that area. I'll probably buy some more.
MR. TURNER-Does Ben have an option on Mr. Whittemore's property?
MR. LEO-He's got an option on Mr. Whittemore's, and with Mr.
Fish's in the back.
MR. TURNER-Okay, but no movement yet?
MR. LEO-No movement. He also purchased the property
street from him, which is a sizeable lot also.
parking problems, we could put the employee parking
street.
across the
If we have
across the
MR. TURNER-Do you propose to demolish the building across the
street, then?
- 7 -
MR. LEO-No.
MR. TURNER-You're going to utilize it in what way?
MR. LEO-The building that's across the street is a house that he
has rented out.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MR. LEO-I believe the lot behind is about 360 deep.
MR, TURNER-When you say across the street, Main Street?
MR. LEO-Across Main Street.
MR. TURNER-This would be an addition to the cooler?
MR. LEO-The addition that we're putting on is just for storage of
flour and can good.
MR. TURNER-Okay, drygoods.
MR. LEO-As far as more traffic, and
think there will be, because most of
stored like, down on Broad Street and
just wants to pull it all into the
running here to pick this up, running
more trucks, and I don't
the stuff he has he has it
his other warehouse, and he
same warehouse, instead of
there to pick that up.
MR. TURNER-All right. Tractor service comes in the Second
Avenue, Second Street, and backs up to the loading dock. Do you
unload in the front?
MR. LEO-They come in Main Street, and they go around towards
Second Street.
MR. TURNER-They don't come in Second?
MR, LEO-You've got a big sign there saying do not go into the
driveway, and stuff, but we really have no control over, some of
these tractor trailers. As far as his own trucks, they don't go
anywhere near the place.
MR. TURNER-Does anyon~ else have any questions?
MR, MENTER-The parcel that was purchased, I guess, to the rear of
the property, that is what is now vacant parking right behind the
store?
MR. LEO-Yes.
MR. MENTER-Okay, and that was in 19?
MR. TURNER-'92. See, they came for a variance, and they had an
option on the property in the rear, and the owner was in Florida,
and they couldn't make contact with him. So, we tabled the
application, pending the outcome of the deal with the property
owner to the rear, and then they finally made a deal, and that
happened, so they didn't need the variance for that part of it.
MR. LEO-Well, we never put that addition on.
MR. TURNER-I know you didn't.
MR. LEO-This is approximately the same size addition.
MR. TURNER-But you have changed something there since.
MR. LEO-Right.
MR. TURNER-You've changed the loading dock in the back,
- 8 -
MR. LEO-The loading dock in the back.
MR. TURNER-You said you couldn't move the cooler, before, but you
moved it and changed it to a loading dock, right?
MR. LEO-We didn't move the cooler.
MR. TURNER-Yes, you did.
loading dock.
You had a cooler in front of the
MR. LEO-It's still there.
MR. TURNER-Is it there? Then I must have missed it the other day
when I looked at it, because there was a truck sitting right
there.
MR. LEO-There's a freezer
towards the front. Qkay.
in the back, and there's a cooler
The loading dock sits right in there.
MR. TURNER-No. There was a truck backed up to the dock right
here. There was a cooler before you had right here, or something
right here before.
MR. MENTER-I didn't notice them either.
MR. TURNER-There was something here before, remember? There's
the dock I'm talking about. There was a truck back there.
MR. LEO-The original building comes through here.
cooler here, which is still here, okay. This was
platform back here.
There was a
just an open
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MR. LEO-What we did is we made the open platform out, but the
cooler still sits here.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Is this a new business he's getting into, or
has he been into it?
MR. LEO-No. He's been into the business.
MR. TURNER-No, into this aspect of the business?
MR. LEO-Yes. Right. Most of the stuff he has out in the truck
right now, when you first walk into the building, he's got all
the drygoods in there. Like I said, he's got them stored down in
Albany. It's all spread out. Anytime he needs anything, he's
got to go here or go there to get it. So, if he can put it all
in one building, it'll solve a lot of problems.
MR. TURNER-But Mr. Fish has not decided to sell you the building
to the?
MR. LEO-Well, we have an option on it.
MR. TURNER-I know you have an option, but you said you haven't
moved on it.
MR. LEO-We haven't pushed him, he hasn't asked.
MR. TURNER-You're not pushing?
MR. LEO-Not as of yet.
MS. CIPPERLY-Excuse me. I'd like to clarify, too, that the
current end of his property, toward the Fish's, is also the
zoning boundary between the Commercial Residential and
Commercial.
- 9 -
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MS. CIPPERLY-So to assume that he can expand into that would be
incorrect.
MR. CARVIN-Yes.
to expand, I'd
south.
That was going to be ~ point.
like to see him go on east, as
If he was going
opposed to the
MS. CIPPERLY-The other thing which is in my notes on the Area
Variance is he's also supposed to have a 50 foot buffer between
the rear of his property and a residential use.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Do you have any questions?
MR. CARVIN-Not at this point. Lets here from the public.
MR. TURNER-Okay, Frank, I think I'll open the public hearing,
we'll let the public talk, and then we might get you back. I'll
now open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
CHARLOTTE SMITH
MRS. SMITH-My name is Charlotte Smith. I live at 71 Main Street,
and the noise that comes from this business at night time already
is causing many sleepless nights. The trucks roll in, anywhere
from, say eleven o'clock at night, two or three o'clock in the
morning, and they try to back into the dock, and they have
problems backing in, and they go back and forth, back and forth.
They finally get parked, then they bring out the ramp from the
dock to the truck, and it's dropped there, and it goes, crash.
Then you can hear them talking, the people who are doing the
unloading and the truck driving, you can hear them talking. Then
when the trucks get ready to leave, there's the revving of the
engines to get out of there. Then when they get just about to
our house, there's a little bump in the road which they have to
go over, but at that time, if they're going to stop and get gas,
they're getting ready to put their air brakes on, so you've got
that added noise also. The refrigeration units. If a truck
comes in, say, eleven o'clock at night, and they're not going to
unload until five o'clock in the morning, that refrigeration unit
is left running all night long, and we get a constant drone,
drone, drone. Now I'm not talking about in the summer when the
windows are open. I'm talking with the windows down in the
winter time, with storm windows on, and you can still hear all
this noise.
MR. TURNER-How far away do you live, Mrs. Smith, approximately,
three, four hundred feet?
MR. SMITH
MR. SMITH-About three houses on the other side, just above it.
MRS. SMITH-To the west, we can see them kitty corner.
MR. TURNER-To the west and on the north?
MRS. SMITH-To the west and on the north.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MRS. SMITH-And I'd like a guarantee that there won't be more
truck traffic.
MR. TURNER-I don't think we could, but, you know, how do you put
up with the traffic that's on that road anyway?
- 10 -
MRS. SMITH-We already have to put up with it.
MR. TURNER-I know, but I'm saying. The whole deal is, they're
not the Lone Ranger in this thing. There are other people there
involved in it, too. There's traffic up, that's a horrendous
corridor. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else wish to be heard in
opposition? Okay. Public hearing's closed.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
CORRESPONDENCE
MR. THOMAS-A letter from the Town of Queensbury Committee for
Community Beautification, "QCCB has reviewed the request for a
Variance and have the following recommendations:" It shows
neither approval or disapproval. "Frank Leo, agent for Double A
Provisions, attended the meeting. Additional property was
purchased for the proposed addition. There is a green area at
the front corner of the lot. With the existing building.
graveled parking lot and the proposed addition, and the nature of
work done at this location (loading docks in the front and
deliveries to the rear, etc.) there isn't an area available for
additional plantings. There are letters in the file from
adjoining neighbors attesting to the fact that the property is
always kept attractive." A letter from Randolph Whittemore and
Helen Whittemore, to the Zoning Board of Appeals, dated January
12, 1994 "Gentlemen: This letter is to state that we have no
objection to Double A Provision's request to add on to their
present property at the boundary line. Mr. Aronson's buildings
are kept very well and would not be a detriment to our home." A
letter from James C. Fish, owner of Jim's Glass Service, dated
February 24, 1994 Gentlemen: This is to inform you that we have
no objection to Double 'A' Provisions building an addition that
extends to the existing fence line."
MR. CARVIN-I'll tell you. I've come down there in the morning,
and they try to back these trucks in here, and it's just ties
that, I mean, it's a bad road to begin with.
MR. TURNER-It's terrible.
MR. CARVIN-I mean, I would rather see them move this way.
MS. CIPPERLY-Mrs. Lilly, who I mentioned in my notes, lives
directly west, and she's the one that was having trouble with the
trucks.
MR. TURNER-Any thought, Mr. Carvin has suggested you tie this
addition into the existing building on the west side, right here,
if you put it right here? You're coming in here with your
trucks, supposedly, right, and back here?
MR. LEO-This addition here has no refrigeration in it.
MR. TURNER-Yes. Right.
MR. LEO-This is a built-in cooler and this is a built-in freezer.
You have through the freezer and through the cooler to get into
this area here. See, there's a walkway right down from this dock
into this dock. So you can run straight into here with this, but
to go through these, to get to a building here, is almost
impossible, and to put it here, we're going to be almost right by
the road. As far as more noise back here, there's going to be no
way we can back into, the only door into this building is the
door on inside the building. There's no outside doors. There's
no loading dock or anything like that going with this building
here. As far as truck traffic, any more, there will be no more.
than what's already there. We're taking everything out of this
section, here, which is, it's real low. I can't get (lost word)
trucks and stuff through here, because this is down on street
- 11 -
grade, this part of the building is way down low, you walk right
in. So, as far as putting stuff there, you're going to have to
take it by hand, and stack everything. As far as more trucks and
stuff, you won't see any more trucks.
MR. TURNER-Okay, but the only inconvenience that would provide
you is that you'd have to go outside to get to this building to
access it.
MR. LEO-Right. We're going to have to close all this off to get
around somehow to get to it, right. What we did, when the
trailers come in, the ones that come almost every day, they
automatically pull right into here, okay, and they wait here, and
we unload them here and here. The ones that come from out of
town, we've got no control over. They go allover the place.
Mrs. Lilly's driveway is right here. A lot of what they ~
doing is coming and going straight to her driveway. We've got
signs and everything else, asking them not to go there.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Well, that's part of the problem, because you
put so much building. I mean, the more building we put on here
in this limited space, the worse that situation's going to get.
MR. LEO-It's a growing business.
MR. CARVIN-I know, but he may have outgrown this spot.
MR. TURNER-Yes. He's getting to where he's outgrowing it.
MR. CARVIN-I like to see business grow, but.
MR. LEO-But I can almost as far as making this complex any
bigger, I think he's gone his limit here anyway.
MR. TURNER-I think he's at his limit right now.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, I think he's one bridge too far.
MR. MENTER-Yes. What comes
property right to the back
within its zone. I mean,
changes the character of that
into play is the property, Fish's
now, has a hardship in operating
you have no buffer there, and it
piece of property.
MR. CARVIN-Absolutely.
MR. LEO-Okay. Well, the piece of property after that, which also
belongs to Jim's Glass, that's supposed to be zoned light
commercial, or something.
MR. TURNER-No, he got a variance.
MR. MENTER-He's pr obab 1 >' preexisting.
MR. TURNER-No. He got a variance for that.
MR. LEO-Yes, but as far as Mr. Fish having any problems, you
know, if he's going to sell the property, Mr. Aronson's going to
buy the property. There's no question about that.
MR. CARVIN-But there's always the possibility that Mr. Aronson
doesn't, and then what's Mr. Fish do? It is a residential zone,
and certainly this corridor is going commercial, and I don't have
a problem with that, and certainly if he could buy this and
expand this way, I wouldn't have any problem with that.
MR. LEO-We'd rather go this way anyway. We can't make him sell.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, well, until those two events happen, we're still
confronted with, this is the space that we've got. You've got a
permeability problem. You've got a traffic pattern problem.
- 12 -
You've got neighbors now that are starting to complain.
MR. LEO-Well, as far as the trucks going up and down the street,
everybody.
MR. CARVIN-I'm not saying that, but 1 know for a fact that going
to work, because I go by your building every day, that when these
trucks are turning around at seven o'clock or eight o'clock in
the morning, they tie traffic up, which is already bad, and
again, I realize that's not your fault, but it's just because
you've got limited space here.
MR. LEO-Yes, like I said, as far as putting this on, it's not
going to create any more traffic coming in.
MR. CARVIN-No, but it's not going to eliminate any either.
MR. LEO-Well, it's not going to eliminate it anyway.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, but how do you get around the permeabiiity? I
mean, I think you've gone over the permeability.
MR. LEO-Well, this is all graveled lot. There's no blacktop to
this lot. We're not going to blacktop it.
MR. CARVIN-I mean, I still think I would be more comfortable, if
we were to look at it, that we put it on this corner, because
that gives you still your buffer. It gives it a little bit of
noise abatement in the back here.
MR. LEO-So, what, more or less,
of property that we bought is
parking lot?
you're telling me, is this piece
really no good to us, except the
MR. TURNER-No, but you have to realize that when you bought it,
that residential was next to you, and you had limited use, right
away. When you came with the proposal in December of '92.
MR. LEO-Right, we were going to propose to put it here.
MR. TURNER-Right. So with the addition of that other property,
that provided the 50 foot buffer, right away.
MR. CARVIN-As if the purchase over here, if you bought this and
expanded that way, and I don't think there'd be anybody that
would have a problem with it.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-But now
realize you may have
that gets purchased.
you're crowding into a residential, and I
an option, but that's not a guarantee that
MR. TURNER-There's nothing over here that, you say he's renting
this building across the street?
MR. LEO-He owns this property right here. He's renting the house
out. He owns the property.
MR. TURNER-Right, I know, but he has no intentions of doing
anything across the road that's related to this building?
MR. LEO-Not as far as, no. See, then we're across the street and
we're in the same boat where we are, having stuff stored allover
the place. We want to keep everything on the same parcel. You
build a building over there, then you're back to the same
problem, you've got trucks going back and forth across the
street.
MR. TURNER-No, no, no, not if you put the drygoods over there,
- 13 -
and you keep the meat separate.
MR. LEO-Yes, but everything goes on the same truck.
MR. TURNER-I know.
MR. CARVIN-I think we're building a Rube Goldberg situation here.
We just keep adding bits and pieces.
MR. TURNER-Yes, I know.
MR. CARVIN-And again, I don't know if anybody's given thought of
redesigning this whole building so it becomes more efficient.
MR. LEO-Well, it's hard to redesign this
refrigeration, the way the building's built.
building, the
MR. TURNER-This building has block walls. It has two and a half
inches of foam insulation, and it's all prepped just for that use
right there.
MR. CARVIN-All right. They've got a loading dock here. I don't
have a floor plan. I mean, fine, you put your addition here, and
you put your loading dock here, I mean, and you're still within
the thing.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-I'd just remind the Board, too, bear in mind your
considerations for a Use Variance. We have absolutely no
documentation on file as to the financial impact, or the need for
this expansion. I mean, these are all site plan concerns that
we're talking about building positioning. We have yet to see any
documentation regarding the financial need or impact of this
expansion.
MR. CARVIN-I think we're looking at the character of the
neighborhood, at this point. I mean, because at this point, it
just would alter the character of the neighborhood.
MR. MARTIN-Well, that's an Area Variance consideration.
MR. MENTER-I think Jim's right. The primary thing is if there's
no.
MR. TURNER-By the Use Variance, he has to meet the criteria for
the whole Use Variance, not just one, not just two, but all of
them. Do you want to consider tabling this and consult with Mr.
Aronson?
MR. LEO-Yes.
MOTION TO TABLE USE VARIANCE NO. 14-1994
Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved
seconded by Chris Thomas:
DOUBLE A PROV I S IONS,
for its adoption,
Tabled by the applicant.
Duly adopted this 21st day of April, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES:
Turner
Mr. Maresco, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Menter, Mr.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Miss Hauser, Mr. Karpeles
AREA VARIANCE NO. 15-1994 TYPE: II CR-15 DOUBLE A PROVISIONS
OWNER: BEN ARONSON 64 MAIN STREET APPLICANT PROPOSES A SIXTY
(60) BY THIRTY-TWO (32) FOOT ADDITION TO A PRE-EXISTING,
- 14 -
NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE. SECTION 179-24C REQUIRES A SIDE AND
REAR SETBACKS OF TWENTY (20) FEET. APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO
CONSTRUCT THE ADDITION ON THE PROPERTY LINES, YIELDING NO SIDE OR
REAR SETBACKS, SO SEEKS RELIEF OF TWENTY (20) FEET FROM EACH.
SECTION 179-24C ALSO REQUIRES THIRTY (30) PERCENT PERMEABILITY,
WHICH WILL NOT BE MET BY THE PROPOSED PLAN. (BEAUTIFICATION
COMMITTEE) 4/11/94 (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 4/13/94 TAX MAP
NO. 134-6-1, 14 LOT SIZE: 0.61 ACRES, 0.21 ACRES SECTION 179-
24C
MR. MARTIN-Ted, what do you want to do with the Area Variance?
MR. TURNER-We'll table both of them, and then they'll still be,
they won't have to re-apply.
MR. MARTIN-Well, we haven't had the public hearing opened yet on
the Area Variance, either, technically.
MR. TURNER-No. That's true, but without the approval of the Use
Variance, the Area Variance isn't going anywhere.
MR. MARTIN-We'll just re-advertise the Area Variance, should that
come up again.
MR. TURNER-Okay. All right.
MR. CARVIN-I think the applicant should be assessed of what the
criteria is, and have financial documentation, when we re-open
this.
MR. TURNER-Yes, he's got to have it.
MR. CARVIN-And also some alternative plans, I guess.
MR. TURNER-If you come up with a different plan, bring that back,
and bring the documentation, on the financial end of it.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 15-1994 DOUBLE A PROVISIONS,
Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Chris Thomas:
Tabled by applicant.
Duly adopted this 21st day of April, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES:
Turner
Mr. Carvin, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Menter, Mr. Maresco, Mr.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Miss Hauser, Mr. Karpeles
AREA VARIANCE NO. 22-1994 TYPE: UNLISTED ESC-25A PYRAMID
COMPANY OF GF OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE AVIATION ROAD APPLICANT IS
SEEKING TO SUBDIVIDE ONE (1) FIFTY-SIX AND FIFTY-SEVEN HUNDREDTHS
(56.57) ACRE LOT INTO TEN (10) LOTS FOR FINANCING PURPOSES.
RELIEF WILL BE NEEDED FOR EACH LOT FROM SECTION 179-27.1, WHICH
REQUIRES LOT SIZE OF TWENTY-FIVE ACRES, LOT WIDTH OF EIGHT
HUNDRED (800) FEET, FRONT SETBACKS OF FIFTY (50) FEET, SIDE AND
REAR SETBACKS OF THIRTY (30) FEET, AND PERMEABILITY OF TWENTY
(20) PERCENT. THE APPLICANT ALSO SEEKS RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-
66C, PARKING REQUIREMENTS, AND SECTION 179-70, WHICH REQUIRES
FRONTAGE ON A PUBLIC STREET. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 4/13/94
TAX MAP NO. 98-1-5.2 LOT SIZE: 56.57 ACRES SECTION 179-27.1,
179-66(C), 179-70
BOB STEWART, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
- 15 -
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 22-1994, Pyramid Company of
GF, Meeting Date: April 21, 1994 "APPLICANT: Pyramid Company
of Glens Falls PROJECT LOCATION: Aviation Mall, Aviation Road
PROPOSED ACTION: Applicant is seeking to subdivide one (1)
fifty-six and fifty-seven hundredths acre lot into ten (10) lots
for financing purposes. CONFORMANCE WITH USE/AREA REGULATIONS:
Some form of relief will be needed from Section 179-27.1 for each
lot. This section requires lot size of twenty-five acres, lot
width of eight hundred (800) feet, front setbacks of fifty (50)
feet, side and rear setbacks of thirty (30) feet, and
permeability of twenty (20) percent. The applicant also seeks
relief from Section 179-66(C), parking requirements, and Section
179-70, which requires frontage on a public street. The
applicant has prepared a detailed description of required relief.
Staff has reviewed this document and agrees with the
descriptions. Rather than repeat them, staff is willing to let
them stand as the record. REASON FOR VARIANCE REQUEST, AND
BENEFIT TO APPLICANT: In order to secure financing for the
expansion of the mall, lenders are requiring that each segment of
the project be on a separate parcel. Granting of this variance
would allow applicant to proceed with the project. FEASIBLE
ALTERNATIVES: Apparently, there are no alternative methods of
securing funding for this project. IS THIS RELIEF SUBSTANTIAL?:
The relief is substantial in view of the number of nonconforming
lots being created, the non-existent or minimal setbacks, the
lack of road frontage, proper lot size, etc. However, the
applicant maintains that this situation will only be in place
during the construction period, after which the parcels will be
merged and the site will be conforming. EFFECTS ON THE
NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY: There is no anticipated effect on the
neighborhood due to the creation of these lots. The approved
Site Plan will be followed, with no changes proposed. In the
event there is a default on these lots, there are some areas
described below in Staff Concerns, which could affect the
community or require further variances. IS THIS DIFFICULTY SELF-
CREATED?: This difficulty appears to be created by the lending
institutions. The applicant would have preferred not to have to
undergo this process. PARCEL HISTORY: The Mall site was zoned
Enclosed Shopping Center by Resolution of the Town Board on
December 17, 1990. Prior to that it was zoned Plaza Commercial-
lA. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: Simply put, staff has concerns
about relieving the applicant from all requirements for access --
to parking, the road, utilities, water and sewer -- and would
prefer to see some easements or agreements among the lots to
provide this access. While this is predicted to be a temporary
situation, some provision should be made for the possibility that
the lender could actually end up with a piece of real estate that
is unusable without extensive relief from the Zoning Code or
legal problems in utilizing the site. Staff's level of concern
about this project is tied directly to the predicted temporary
nature of this subdivision. A time period could be placed on the
area variance to insure that this is, indeed, a relatively
temporary use. If an extension of that period was needed, the
Board would have the opportunity to extend it. For the record,
the Tax Map parcels involved in the total project include: 98-1-
5.2- 98-1-2 98-1-5.1 98-5-4.1 99-1-4. These parcels are
either under Pyramid ownership or in some stage conveyance. The
concept proposed in this application is becoming more common in
the development and finance industry. Similar cases are known to
have occurred in the Town of Guilderland and the City of Saratoga
Springs."
MR. THOMAS-The Warren County Planning Board, dated April 13,
1994, "At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board held on
the 13th day of April, 1994, the above application for an Area
Variance to subdivide a 56.67 acre into ten separate lots in
order to secure financing for the 105,000 GLA expansion of the
Aviation Mall was reviewed ~nd the following action was taken:
Recommendation to disapprove. Comments: It is in conformance
now. Dividing it into ten parcels is not a good idea. Also the
- 16 -
'-
legal ramifications of segmenting this property and the impact of
any futu1-e changes or modifications to the site plan might be in
conflict with the individual property owners. The Board is also
concerned about the open-ended request for any other Variances
not specifically mentioned."
MR. TURNER-Mr. Stewart.
MR. STEWART-Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board, for the record,
my name is Bob Stewart, and I'm here tonight representing the
Pyramid Company of Glens Falls. With me is Michael Piazzola of
the Pyramid Company who is the Project Manager in this
application, and also with him, is Mr. Dave Bagardis, who is the
surveyor who has laid out the subdivision map and plan that
you've seen, and they're here in the event that they are
requested to answer any questions that perhaps I cannot. Under
the law, it was required that the application be long and
detailed, specific, complicated, and even boring, but I don't
think there's any law that says ~ comments tonight have to be
the same. I'm going to be quite brief, because I sense that this
Board is probably pretty well aware of what's involved here, but
I'll stop and slow down and answer any questions that you may
have. I don't mean to be cavalier about this, but I don't want
to bore you to death either. The basic thing I think you must
understand is that there is a site plan in place which specifies
exactly how this property can be developed and of course there's
a Zoning Ordinance in Queensbury that says it can only be
developed as one overall enclosed shopping mall. The rules that
control it are clear cut and precise, and the Mall meets all of
those rules, has all of the permits in hand that they need to go
forward, and do not need any variances from this Board, and,
frankly, we wish that we didn't have to be here tonight to take
your time. What has happened, pure and simple, is the
complexities of financing, and it's new. It didn't exist a few
years ago. When this Mall was initially developed, the Teachers'
Annuity, which is a long range, permanent lending organization
utilizing primarily Teacher's pension funds, financed the long
range construction of this Mall, and they are still the financing
agent, and will continue to be in the future. When, however, a
new expansion within the Mall is planned, as is the case today,
the permanent lender does not loan the money -for the
construction. As a matter of fact, it's my understanding that
the charter of Teachers' Annuities does not allow them to become
involved in the temporary construction financing. Commercial and
industrial type construction these days, and for a good many
years, has always been done in two stages. First, banks that
involve themselves in the type of commercial short-range
construction, they come in. They lend the money. They see the
project through, until the buildings are up, the tenant is in,
and that portion of it is stabilized. At that point, the
temporary lender comes in. He pays off the construction lender,
and then his mortgage goes on over all, and it's done as a two
stage basis. That's not unusual. As a matter of fact, when
Caldors ~\as built, some years ago, in this Mall, it was an
extension after the permanent financing had been placed, and we
didn't have to come back for any of this type of a variance. The
reason that it's different now is that the banking industry went
through some difficult times in the past few years, specifically
the Savings and Loan disasters we've all read about, and there
was some serious mistakes that had concerned the banking
industry. Bank examiners are very, very tight now in reviewing
what banks do, and everybody is now very cautious. As a result,
the construction or the temporary lenders say, fine, we will come
in and loan you the money to put up the building, but we want
some security to show the bank examiners that we're going to be
doing a good job here, and so we want a mortgage. Now, we
realize, if we want a mortgage of the whole site, that's
possible, but it would be second to Teachers', whose mortgage is
up front, and we want something more than that. We want a first
mortgage on something. Specifically, we want the footprint of
- 17 -
..,
the building on which we're going to put this new building. We
want that piece of land underneath it, and we want the building,
as it goes up, secured by a mortgage in which ~ hold first
position, and Teachers backs down and agrees to give us first
position, and here we have about three phases of construction
which would involve three parcels upon which construction would
take place. In addition, the lenders have noticed that there is
new parcels coming in around the periphery that we're acquiring
so that we'll have enough land for all the parking requirements
and so on that the site plan requires, and they've noticed that
Teachers, when they put their mortgage on years ago, their
mortgage didn't cover these parcels, because Pyramid didn't own
them at that time. So they say, ah ha, there are a few other
parcels there that Teachers doesn't have a mortgage on. Give us
a first mortgage on those, too, sort of a belt and suspenders.
We want a mortgage out of everything. Teachers has agreed to
this. Teachers realizes that the temporary lenders need some
security if they're going to put this kind of money down. So,
they have agreed to subordinate their mortgage on these small
construction pieces to the temporary lender, and they've agreed
that the temporary lender can also have first mortgages on these
peripheral parcels around the edge. The understanding is, when
the building is done, Teachers will then payoff the temporary
lender, and then Teachers mortgage will back up to first place,
and we will go on just as we always have. Again, the important
thing is that Pyramid doesn't need any variances to build and
operate the Mall as it's approved by the site plan, and even more
important, that they can't deviate one inch from that site plan,
whether you give them the variances or not. The variances have
nothing to do with how they can use that property, only how they
can finance it. That being the case, we have applied for these
variances. The Staff has examined this thoroughly, and the Town
Attorney has turned it upside down, also. L took the position
that, since the site plan controls what can be done, that that
should be it. I didn't think that we needed any conditions other
than that. Mr. Dusek felt that he did want additional conditions
to make it crystal clear, and to state over and over that no
matter what variances that this Board should grant tonight, that
under no circumstances will it effect the way the property can be
used and developed, and he and I have worked together on a
proposed resolution that gives him all of the language the deed
required in that regard. It also goes on to say that once this
project is complete, and the temporary financing is done and
concluded, and the Pyramid financing has come back on, that at
that point, the variances will disappear, it will be taken off.
The subdivision will be taken off, and we'll be back with one
large piece, operating as a single Mall, and secured by a single
mortgage with the Teachers Annuity. So that's the basic concept
of it. What, if any, questions can I answer, or can the other
gentlemen with me answer?
MR. TURNER-What's the time frame for construction?
MR. STEWART-The time frame for
actually we're starting now,
getting the site ready.
construction of J.C. Penneys
in terms of moving earth,
is,
and
MICHAEL PIAZZOLA
MR. PIAZZOLA-September 21st.
MR. STEWART-To start or to finish?
MR. PIAZZOLA-To finish.
MR. STEWART-To finish. All right. When that is done, there's
another necessary link that goes behind that. When Penneys is
done, then there'll be another extension of the Mall, bringing
the corridor to the new Penneys, and that will be accompanied by
some smaller stores, and that wing will be approved. So that's
- 18 -
sort of a Phase II. Any judgements about when that will be done?
MR. PIAZZOLA-November 15th.
MR. STEWART-Finally, the third phase that's allowed under our
site plan is a new department store, which we've referred to as
Department store B. We don't anticipate, with the complexities
of building Penneys, that that will go up this year, and it's
contemplated that that will, however, go up next summer, and that
is it. That is our three phases.
MR. TURNER-Is that a definite, or is that just a?
MR. STEWART-Well, I think it's definite, as far as weather, and
storms, and strikes.
MR. TURNER-No. Is it definite, you're definitely going to build
the other store?
MR. STEWART-Well, as to that, I'd rather have Michael answer you
on that.
MR. PIAZZOLA-Mr. Turner, to try to answer your question, the Mall
expansion is now proceeding, and we're building the J.C. Penney
store with the anticipated opening date of September 21st of this
year. At which time, once J.C. Penney closes the store they're
in and moves into their new store, we can start construction, in
earnest, on this other parcel, if you will, which is the old J.C.
Penney, which will become ten or twelve new Mall shops. At that
point in time, we'll have a new J.C. Penney. We'll have new Mall
shops. We're right now negotiating with a handful of Department
Store B tenants, we call them. We have approval to do 65,000
square feet there. However, we can't start construction in the
dead of winter there, and construction will most likely start
next spring, for either a summer or fall of '95 opening for that
store, but without having the lease in hand, I really can't
commit to a definite time frame, but, based on the fact that
there is a construction lender there, and we're paying interest
on a construction loan, it's in Pyramid's best interest to try to
close the door on this whole expansion as quickly as possible,
and that's what we're aiming for. We're aiming to get this thing
up and open as soon as we possibly can.
MR. TURNER-So what you're saying is then the financing will be on
the total proposed expansion, or just on what is proposed this
year?
MR. PIAZZOLA-The financing has to, if you will, leap frog from
one parcel to the next, and the financing will be in place, most
likely, until that fourth Department Store is open.
MR. TURNER-Temporary financing.
MR. PIAZZOLA-Temporary financing, and as Bob has said, once that
final piece of the puzzle is satisfied, once that last piece of
the construction loan is discharged, these variances will
automatically expire.
MR. TURNER-Will automatically expire. Yes.
MR. PIAZZOLA-By virtue of the resolution that Mr. Dusek and Mr.
Stewart put together.
MR. TURNER-So we're, again, going back, we're talking to the fall
of '95, is that correct, for the total expansion to be done, to
be accomplished?
MR. PIAZZOLA-The inside date would be spring of '95.
MR. TURNER-Spring of '95.
...
- 19 -
MR. PIAZZOLA-And the outside date would be the end of '95, and
again, I wouldn't want to be held to those dates.
MR. TURNER-No, I'm not. I just want to get a picture.
MR. PIAZZOLA-That's the general picture, and again,
don't have a lease in hand for that fourth Department
be reticent to give you an exact date, but I know what
dates are on the J.C. Penney and the new Mall Shops.
because we
Store, I'd
the exact
MR. CARVIN-Would you feel there's a high degree of confidence
that you will have a lease, and that this will be completed by
the end of '95?
MR. PIAZZOLA-Without having lease in hand, I'll tell you I'm as
confident as I can be. Knowing that we're on the record, I have
to say that, but we do have a high degree of confidence, because
we have a sophisticated leasing team back in Syracuse, and being
the Mall Manager and also the Project Manager, they call me every
week to take somebody on a tour, a potential tenant for that
fourth Department Store. So, there's a big push on. Pyramid
Company's a large corporation, as you all know, and this is the
Number One priority for the Pyramid Companys right now is to get
the Glens Falls expansion up and open and completed.
MR. MENTER-The construction financing, those
on project completion, more than time frame.
note.
are typically based
They're more like a
MR. PIAZZOLA-That's correct, and again, your lending institution
has reviewing capacity, and what they want to do is they want to
make sure that you have a construction schedule, and, so,
hypothetically, J.C. Penney would be open on September 21st of
this year, and the construction lender has a reviewing engineer.
They have a reviewing attorney, and they're there every week
making sure that construction is progressing in accord with the
schedule that you've worked out with both the tenant and the
developer, and they don't necessarily, it's not necessarily
limited by time. It's limited by time based on the date that you
give them as part of the construction schedule. So, I can tell
you that the timing is September 21st for J.C. Penney.
MR. MENTER-So, in a sense, then, you're bound to that schedule.
MR. PIAZZOLA-Absolutely. You pay severe penalties if you don't
make that schedule, because the bank expects to have their money
back from you with interest at a certain date, and it's going
back into circulation with somebody else imminently.
MR. THOMAS-The only thing, well, reading this whole thing, why
ten separate lots? Why not five, why not twenty-five?
MR. STEWART-Let me try to answer that. The ten lots come out
this way. First of all, we start with one huge lot. That's
right there. There are three footprints for the three proposed
new wings, or additions. That, plus the original, now you're up
to four. In addition, there are six peripheral pieces, one that
the Town sold us recently, for a very high price, and four that
are being picked up, two from Mr. Wood, and two from this
corporation, but they'¡"e scattered around the outside, and the
reason the bank has eyed those additional peripheral properties,
even though nothing is going to built on them, they're dedicated
to parking or roads, is because they don't have, at the present
time, a Teachers mortgage on them. Teachers mortgage went on
some years ago, when those parcels weren't part of this whole.
Now they're coming in, and they don't have a mortgage on them,
and again, like belts and suspenders, the banks are indicating,
A., give us a mortgage on those little pieces now, because that
just makes us feel a little more secure. I'm not sure why they
want them. Frankly, they can be used for nothing but parking,
- 20 -
but bank attorneys love to say, give me that and your first born
son, and anything else they can get their hands on, in this case.
There is one other comment I think should be made, and that
relates to the County Planning Board's disapproval. The Staff of
this Board has required submitting the application for review to
the County. I was concerned that the County clearly understand
what lies beneath all of this, because it is sort of a
complicated concept. It's something new here in this area, at
least it hasn't (lost word). So every day, the moment it got up
there, I called twice a day, left messages with Staff, call me
and meet with me so I can talk with them and make sure they
clearly understood it. They have an arrangement where the Staff
meets with the Board before the public meeting and tells them
what's going on and the Board pretty much makes up their mind, or
so it appears, as a result of Staff's comments. Staff would not
meet with me, and would not even give me the courtesy of a single
phone call back, and that's fine. That's their prerogative, but
when we got up there the night of the meeting, they and the Board
expressed confusion. They didn't clearly understand what we were
all about. The one comment, for example, I don't see any reason
why you have to divide one big piece into ten. Obviously, if
anybody had read the application, they would see what the problem
was. They may not have agreed with it, but they certainly would
understand, and it was obvious to me that they just hadn't taken
the time, nor had Staff told them what this was all about, which
was sort of annoying, in view of the fact that I was calling
every day, telling them why I was calling, and asking for them to
meet, unlike your Staff whose turned me inside out for weeks over
this thing, but I just wanted you to know, and as a matter of
fact, Mrs. Bitner, the last comment before the resolution, said,
I think it should be in the record that we're not disapproving
because we disapprove of it. We're disapproving it because we
really don't understand it and we wish we had an attorney here to
give us some advice, but we don't have an attorney to help us, so
we just don't know what we're doing. That was the essence of
that decision, and I think you should know that.
MR. TURNER-Anyone else? Do you want to hear what the public has
to say first? Okay. We'll turn it over to the public hearing,
and then we'll get back. I'll now open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TURNER-Any discussion?
MR. CARVIN-Well, I think they've addressed all the issues. I
think, you know, my concern was the longevity, whether we were
opening up a real Pandora's Box here.
MR. TURNER-That was my question. I just wanted to know where the
construction dates were going, and what was coming first, the
chicken or the egg, or whatever you want to call it.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I, very briefly, have read over the proposed
motion, and maybe Paul, is there a time frame on this, Paul? Is
a termination date in here?
MR. DUSEK-Maybe I can review that part with you. In fact, we
were meeting out there because they had trouble with the language
still, and we hashed it over again. When this matter first came
to me, it was clear to me that there were two issues,
essentially, here. One was, which is the obvious one, of course,
do you grant the variance or don't you grant the variance.
That's issue Number One, and of course that's strictly this
Board's decision. If you didn't grant the variance, then there's
no other concerns. If you granted the variance, however, then I
- 21 -
saw a second issue. The second issue being to, that if it's true
that all they needed this for was financing, and it was only for
the temporary financing, I saw the second issue being that, how
do we limit it sufficiently so that nothing bad can happen in the
future. So, one part of this resolution really deals with
conditioning the variance so that we tried to avoid, to the best
of ~ ability, and we brainstormed this thing to make sure we
tried to cover every possible contingency, so nothing "bad" could
happen, and what do I mean by "bad" happening. Well, you're
creating subdivisions, and as the Staff pointed out, well, what
if all of a sudden one of these people buys a lot and it's
landlocked, or they buy a lot and they say, well, we don't have
any parking, so we want a variance, for whatever reason, put in
underground parking or something, you know. We didn't want to
open up the door so that somebody who bought a lot there, if that
happened, through a default in financing or something, that they
came back to this Board and said, you've got to give us a
variance. So the thought was, and it starts on Page 9, Paragraph
16. That paragraph says, it is the intent and a condition of
this resolution, that any subsequent owner of all or any of the
parcels described shall be subject to the benefits and burdens of
the site plan approved by the Town of Queensbury Planning Board.
Now this language, in and of itself, says, okay, if somebody did
come in, they're going to be bound by whatever that site plan
shows. In other words, parking is here. The buildings are here.
They can't come in and say, we're going to put a building on top
of a parking lot because that's not allowed. So whatever's shown
on that map, they're obligated. Also they get the benefits of
that map, the parking, the traffic flow and everything else, and
I give Bob Stewart credit for coming up with that language,
because that, to be quite honest with you, that language
impressed me in being able to say in very few words, to put a cap
on what's going to happen here as far as future owners go, the
benefits and burdens of the site plan. I wanted something
additional to that, though, and I wanted it clear, in terms of
the next condition, that the variance had to have a provision in
it which required that should a conveyance occur, through default
or whatever, that the future owners would get easements or rights
to use the parking, the common mall area, the access, the egress,
utilities, signage. In other words, that owner, when he becomes
occupant of that store, if somebody should acquire that, they're
going to have all the rights to use everything, just as if the
Mall had always gone on. Well, now if they come in here and try
to seek a variance for parking or signs or anything else, they're
going to be pretty hard-pressed, because nothing's really any
different than all the other Mall people that are in the Mall
over there, and also they've gotten all the rights. They can't
say, well, golly, gee, I don't have any parking because these
people are required to give them parking, and they're required to
give them the same type of parking that they would have if they
were in existence from the same ownership. In addition to that,
we had the time issue, because my thought here,.agaip, was, anhd I
think staff also raised it, and I know Ted ralsed lt, that.t e,
well, if this is all we need for financing, and.w:'re ~frald of
potential problems in the future,. ~ow can we.llmlt th~s.from a
time perspective? Now, normally lt s very trlcky to llm:t your
variances, in terms of timing, because they usually.ru~ wlth the
land. However, the courts have held that, in certaln lnstances,
time limitations are permissible, as long as they're structured
properly, and it was ~ opinion, in this particular case, that it
was appropriate to put a time limitation of sorts on it, and
therein started a whole bunch of problems, which is why I just
handed out to you this other second handout, where we tried to
reach an agreement as to how those time provisions should work.
It basically says here that, and there's two resolve clauses.
One is a resolve clause that you acknowledge that the Warren
County Planning Board did what they did, but you're still going
ahead with it, basically. The second one, though, is the one
that deals with the timing, and it says, it is hereby resolved
that the foregoing variances shall terminate upon the happening
- 22 -
of the following events. So it's saying, if all three of these
things that are listed here happened, then the variance is over
with, and what has to happen is, One, all the construction
financing has to be satisfied or discharged and no default
occurring. Well, I think that makes sense, because until the
construction financing, the whole purpose of this is to protect
somebody who may buy under that construction financing because of
a default. They want to be able to have a subdivided lot. Like,
lets say they don't payoff the financing on J.C. Penney Store
and somebody, and the bank takes it over and they sell it off.
Well, at that point, you've got to recognize there's going to be
a subdivision there and somebody's going to own the J.C. Penney
Store, but the earlier conditions we talked about will allow them
to have access, parking, common areas, everything would stay the
same. So they shouldn't be back in here looking for variances
from this Board, and they shouldn't be changing anything over
there. They'll just occupy the building as a separate parcel,
but should that not happen, then that one condition will happen,
that the financing is over. No default has occurred, then you
drop down to the second one, which says that the proposed ten
lots are under common ownership. Well, if everything goes right,
it'll stay under common ownership of the Pyramid Companys. The
third condition is, is that the mortgage, the permanent mortgage
now comes back in through Teachers, and takes over the entire
parcel again, and so now there's no need for the construction
financing. There's been no default. It's all under common
ownership. This variance then goes away. Now, to make that
absolutely crystal clear, because ~ concern was I didn't want to
open the dooi for the developer to say, well, I've decided I want
to have different permanent financing on different buildings, and
I'm saying, I said to Bob, I said, that's not what was said here.
What was said here, and he didn't argue that, but I'm saying, I
don't want that to even happen as a possibility. I want to give
you only what you're asking for, temporary financing. That's why
we added this additional clause. Now this is going back to the
form resolution that I gave to you, on Page 11, and it says,
nothing contained herein shall be construed to provide the owner
with the right to maintain separate permanent mortgages on the
parcels, once temporary financing is satisfied and/or discharged,
and the owner, or any subsequent owner, holds title to all
subdivided parcels. With that language in place, I think that
helps to clear up that what we'ie trying to do here, only give
them the subdivision for the temporary financing. The Town
recognizes that, hey, if something goes wrong on the temporary
financing and there's a default, yes, we'll have a subdivision
out there, but we'll have it restiicted. If nothing goes wrong,
we're going to get rid of this variance in the end, through this
time frame. Now you'll notice there's not a particular date in
here, and the reason for that is because I feel that a time frame
should be geared to something that, first of all, it's very hard
to come up with a date, but secondly, I feel the time frame
should be geared to something that makes sense, not just an
arbitrary date, because I think that could be challenged in the
courts, but rather is tied to a particular happening of an event,
which, in this case, is the construction financing getting all
resolved. From what we've heard tonight, it seems to me that
there's a very good shot that this whole thing will be over
probably the end of '95, maybe '96, unless there's a default, and
we don't know if that'll ever happen. Hopefully, it won't, but I
think that with the restrictions that we put into this document,
and it being made clear throughout the document in a number of
places, that this whole thing is subject to these conditions,
that you're making this finding with these conditions in place,
then I think the Town is protected. I hope I've helped clear up
the confusion, as opposed to adding to it. It's a little
complicated trying to explain it, but that was the goal when we
tackled the thing on the conditions. One thing I probably should
do on the handout I just gave to you, you might have trouble
reading that Paragraph B in full, that says, the proposed ten
lots are under common ownership; the subdivision creating such
- 23 -
lots having been dissolved by Planning Board condition or action
or having been abandoned by the applicant. My proposal would be
that the Planning Board should have, attached to their approvals,
if it gets that far, a condition that that subdivision will lapse
as well, at the end of the financing. So that's why we put that
language in there. What would happen on this handout, too,
everything that you see that I kind of bracketed, here, would go
in on Page 11, in place of the top paragraph, and I guess as I'm
realizing that your Page 11 like mine is at this point. Let me
show it to the Board members. Right at the top here, on Page 11,
there is a first one, two, three, four lines would all come out,
right to the point of the word "nothing". That would all come
out, that top part of that paragraph on that handout I just gave
you would all go in there, instead, and then that "nothing"
clause there would stay, and when I read it to you I also added,
I changed the word "is concluded", right here, I changed that to,
"is satisfied and/or discharged" to use better terminology. The
word "concluded", quite frankly, Bob Stewart and his people have
a problem with, and I admitted that that word is probably not as
accurate to say, the mortgage is satisfied and/or discharged.
So, I had no problem substituting this terminology, and it's
consistent, also, with what's on the separate handout I gave you.
So then, really, what you end up with is that entire resolution,
with Page 11 doctored up, with the handout.
MR. TURNER-Do you have any question on the resolution?
MR. CARVIN-I'm assuming the applicant has reviewed this proposed
motion?
MR. STEWART-We have.
MR. CARVIN-And are satisfied with all the conditions, and
wherefores, and whys, of which there are numerous?
MR. STEWART-Yes, but frankly Pyramid, who's now going to have to
sit down with some bank attorney who's going to say why this has
to be split, we'd just as soon have a (lost word) with no
conditions on it at all, but the Staff and Paul won't let us get
away with that. So we agreed that we will accept those
conditions as being fair.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and, Paul, you feel that these will protect the
Town, and the spirit of our Zoning?
MR. DUSEK-I learned a long time ago that there's no absolute
guarantees in life, but I believe that what we've done here is
tie this down as tightly as you possibly can tie it down, with,
One, the conditions in the beginning so that the thing can't
change, even if the ownership of the parcels should change, and
also, we've tied it down that if the financing comes to a
conclusion, we're going to get rid of this whole thing, so that,
twenty years from now, some other problem that we haven't thought
of doesn't come up. So I think, my opinion was that this was the
trickiest part of this resolution, should the Board decide to
approve it. So I took the time to really study it, and I believe
that we've got this as restricted as you can get.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. This may be a little off the beaten path, but,
with the amount of new construction, the Wal-Marts and the K-
Marts and so forth, do you think that this is something that we
may be confronted with in the future?
MR. DUSEK-Quite honestly, I think it's very possible, because,
apparently, it's been explained to me, many of your permanent
financing, or financiers, are not doing the construction
financing for some reason, and when that happens, obviously, then
the, especially if you have an existing one. When a new one's
coming up, like the K-Mart and a Wal-Mart, you probably won't
have that problem, but when you have an existing building that's
- 24 -
seeking to expand, and if the permanent financier won't give you
the money you need, and they have to go to some outside source,
to take that construction risk, then you might see more of these.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is it a situation that the Town Board should
look into, to give us some latitude here, to create a new
variance, if there were, that would be applicable to something
like this?
MR. DUSEK-Actually, to be quite honest with you, I think this is
the proper mechanism to handle it as it is right here, because,
see, your Board can condition a variance, like we did here, so
that the Town is protected. I don't really think we want to put
in statutory language for this, at least not yet, until we see if
there's a constant trend for it, but at this point, it seems to
me that it's unique. The applicant can typically, as I think
he's done here today, demonstrate why he needs it, and you can
balance the equities, and, at this point, I think that this is
the way to handle it, to be quite honest with you.
MR. CARVIN-Well, the only reason for the question is that I know
we have had a similar case on an individual, Kelly Carte came in
with some bank financing problem, where he had a lot that had
thirty-two acres, but the bank wanted a chunk, and there was some
convoluted thinking there. It got turned down.
MR. TURNER-The thirty-two acres was primarily vacant,
1.67 acres he wanted to subdivide, with a house on
bank wanted that lot with the house on it.
and it had
it, and the
MR. DUSEK-Was that a permanent financing? It must
permanent, as opposed to a temporary situation?
have been
MR. TURNER-Yes. It was permanent.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, it's not substantially different,
I don't believe. I mean, it was a case very similar, only it was
on a personal basis. It wasn't a Mall. It was an individual
owner looking for financing.
MR. DUSEK-And he wanted to finance the balance of the lot without
the house that was on it?
MS. CIPPERLY-The bank had said that they did not want, the value
of the house, compared to the value of the land. The house was
insignificant, and they didn't want the house on that parcel.
MR. TURNER-The value of the land.
MR. DUSEK-The only thing I was said there, though, see, there you
are creating a permanent situation, and creating something ~.
Whereas, here, you're creating something temporary, hopefully,
and also you're not creating anything new, though, other than
what exists right there. In other words, here nothing's going to
change, under the way this is set up. In the situation you're
describing to me, it sounds like the rest of the land was going
to change, and you were going to create a situation exactly what
you didn't want to create under the Ordinance, where you have a
nonconforming lot that you could have avoided. Here, there's
nothing you can avoid. The place is built out.
MR. CARVIN-What I'm saying is that we might have been able to
give a temporary situation in that case, so that the whole lot
would still, because that was the first time that I think I've
ever been confronted with that type of financing. As it turned
out, I think the turn down was passed, but it had to go to the
Adirondack Park, and they threw it right out.
MR.
I'm
DUSEK-Well, you see, the
thinking it out right
other thing there
now, is it sounds
though, too, as
to me like that
- 25 -
person had some flexibility to build a proper lot, because it was
vacant land they were working with. In this case here, this
parcel is built out according to the Ordinances, and the only
thing that's making it need a subdivision, at this point, is the
financing, but it's not changing anything. The case that you're
glvlng me, it sounds to me like he was getting ready to build
out, and you would be creating a lot that I don't think you'd
want.
MR. MARTIN-The other thing about that, in terms of your criteria
for Area Variance review, is I don't see where this is, in
weighing the balance of the benefit to the applicant to the
detriment to the neighborhood, I think it's clearly on the side
of the applicant. In my personal opinion on this, that that
outweighs the detriment to the neighborhood. In that case, the
Carte case, I don't know that you could say that. I think the
creation of that lot was controversial.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, to say the least.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
acre zone.
You were creating a substandard lot in a ten
MR. MARTIN-And the neighbors were obviously concerned about that.
MR. DUSEK-The other thing is, I think that example, though, does
go to, I think, further support what I was indicating to you
earlier, that I think this Board is, though, the best agency to
deal with these right now, until we, usually when you have new
matters that you don't hit very often, and there's a lot of
different wrinkles to them, your Board is ideal, because you can
vary the Ordinance. You can condition the Variances, and you can
set it up so it works. If a problem starts to recur constantly,
then it seems to me then it's appropriate for the Town Board to
jump in and say we better re-legislate to address the situation.
Based on the experience of the Board, they should have the
knowledge, as well, to draft the correct legislation. I'd be
very concerned, right now, drafting legislation just because,
first of all, I don't know if it would fit every situation, and
secondly, you might put things in there that just don't work. As
we saw right here alone, we struggled with this language for a
long time to get something that worked for them, and worked, what
I felt would protect the Town.
MR. TURNER-Okay.
MR. MENTER-I'm going to ask you to speak for somebody else, to be
reasonably sure that the lender, this falls into their
expectation of what they're going to need? In other words,
they're not going to come back and say, well, this is fine, but?
MR. STEWART-Well, that's reasonably sure, yes, but when it goes
into place, then it goes to the attorney for the lender, and the
attorneys have a way they try to show their clients what terrific
lawyers they are. They start to go through and turn over rocks.
It is possible that somewhere along the line the lender's
attorney will say, I'm apprehensive about this one line here,
because I think maybe in the future, I think what we worked up
with is fair enough for the applicant and fair enough for Town
that it's clear what both sides mean. I think a bank lending
money under these circumstances is adequately protected, and I
fervently hope I will not be back before this Board to say we
need a little patch up, but I'd like to keep the door open. I
might come back and say I'd like to change one sentence, or one
word, and explain to you why, and it's possible if it's that
narrow a change, and that change (lost word), you might not have
a problem, but I honestly know of nothing at this time that I see
coming that I'm apprehensive of, or that I believe will bring us
back here.
- 26 -
MR. MENTER-Paul, what is the easiest way for us to, in effect,
like, just a language change that really doesn't make too much
difference?
MR. DUSEK-Well, if you got into a language change, I'd say
have to consider, first of all, how major it was, and if it
major, you may have to hold another hearing.
we'd
was
MR. MENTER-Right.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-That would require a unanimous vote to re-open it?
MR. DUSEK-Well, maybe yes, maybe no, and the reason why I'm
hedging a little bit is because, first of all, you can always re-
open on a unanimous vote. You can always rehear. So YOU have
that opportunity to do it that way, but he may be able to come
back in, on a simple majority vote, because he could claim change
of circumstances, change of circumstances being that the lender
wouldn't accept the language.
MR. CARVIN-Well, lets cross that bridge when we get to it, I
guess.
MR. STEWART-If we ever get to that point, it's going to be a very
narrow, precise issue, not today where we're thinking about broad
range issues. That would be pretty sharp.
MR. DUSEK-Let me say this. There is a way to address that
concern with the lender, and that is, just simply give him a
blanket varian~e with no conditions, but, to me, then that sets
the Town up for concerns, and I wouldn't advocate that position,
and so the minute we start to protect the Town, we start to
infringe on what may happen with the lender, and so what you try
to do is you try to protect the Town, yet give them the
protection they need, and I think that's what we did, here. We
tried to strike a balance that protects both interests, and I
think we all know, from reading in the papers, banks and
everything are skiddish these days, and I think they're getting
very, very tough. Hopefully they won't have a problem with this.
1 think, I agree with Bob. I think a lender should feel fairly
comfortable with this, but I'm not their attorney.
MR. TURNER-Okay. Any further comment? Do you want to move the
resolution?
MR. DUSEK-One other point I should mention, which is very
important, of course, and I'm sure the Board already understands
this, but just so it's in the record, what's been drafted here is
totally up to you, to take as it is, to revise any way that you
want, to make any changes that you want in it, because this is
your baby.
MR. TURNER-All right. Lets start out this way.
it.
You've all read
MR. CARVIN-Well, I've read it through, but that doesn't mean I
fully understand it.
MR. MENTER-Paul personally guarantees it to have no flaws. So, I
think we're covered.
MR. CARVIN-Well, if it comes back at us, Paul will defend us.
MR. DUSEK-Are there any questions on any of the revisions? If
you want to take a moment, I don't mind going, real quick, right
through this with you and just explain the various revisions real
quick, so that you can feel, maybe, a little bit more comfortable
with this. Do you want to do that, just take about two minutes
- 27 -
and just go right through it?
MR. CARVIN-Well, I think we can, but I mean, if the applicant has
read the document, and I'm sure he'll read along or listen along
as we read it, if there's no substantial changes, and if you're
comfortable with it, I'm not.
MR. DUSEK-Okay. Were you going to propose to read the whole
resolution, or did you just want to move it, you know, review it
quickly and then move it.
MR. CARVIN-I don't know. How does that?
MR. TURNER-We don't have to read it. We can adopt the resolution
as submitted.
MR. MARTIN-When this is typed in, I'm going to have Maria send it
up to Paul's Office, and have him review it before it's sent out
with the official notices, to make sure that it is proper.
MR. DUSEK-You're under no legal requirement to read a resolution
of this length at a meeting, especially when you all have the
same resolution in front of you.
MR. MENTER-I'm comfortable enough with it.
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-I have no problem with it.
MR. TURNER-I guess the only other thing that, maybe it's
duplication, but I think I would like to see the supplemental
statement as part of the record, and the exhibits, as part of the
record, just include it.
MR. MARTIN-You mean the statement that Chris read, Ted?
MR. TURNER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's already in the record, by virtue of the
his reading it in.
MR. TURNER-I know it is, but I mean, it should be part of this
resolution.
MR. MARTIN-You want it attached to the resolution?
MR. TURNER-Yes, the Supplemental Statement, and Exhibit A.
MR. MARTIN-Do you want to just attach the application, Ted, the
whole, we'll just do the application.
MR. TURNER-Attach it to the resolution. Okay.
introduce it, then.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 22-1994
GF, Introduced by Theodore Turner who moved
seconded by Fred Carvin:
All right. I'll
PYRAMID
for its
COMPANY OF
adoption,
With the following resolution attached, and also attached to the
resolution the application with the supplements and the exhibits,
as it applies to this application.
WHEREAS, Pyramid Company of Glens Falls (the "Applicant")
submitted a variance application dated March 30, 1994 (as amended
and supplemented, the "Application") and an Environmental
Assessment Form dated March 30, 1994 (as amended and
supplemented, the "EAF") to the Town of Queensbury Zoning Board
of Appeals (the "ZBA") in connection with the proposed
- 28 -
subdivision of a 56.57+/- acre parcel of land into ten separate
parcels, and
WHEREAS, the Application seeks variances from 179-27.1,
179-66 and 179-70 of the Town of Queensbury Zoning ordinance
(the "Zoning Ordinance") and 280-a of the Town Law (the
variances requested in the Application are collectively referred
to as the "Variances"); and
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury Town Board (the "Town
Board") previously reviewed the Applicant's proposed 106,000+/-
square feet gross leasable area ("SF GLA") expansion to the
existing Aviation Mall in accordance with the State Environmental
Quality Review Act ("SEQRA") and concluded that the expansion
would not have any significant adverse impacts on the
environment; and
WHEREAS, The
"Planning Board")
approval for the
1991; and
Town of Queensbury Planning
as an involved agency granted
106,000 +/- SF GLA expansion on
Board (the
Site Plan
January 22,
WHEREAS, the Planning Board, by resolution dated March is,
1994, modified the January 22, 1991 Site Plan approval (including
reducing the expansion to 105,000 SF GLA) and found that the
potential environmental impacts were previously determined by the
Town Board with respect to the Aviation Mall expansion and that
the Site Plan modifications did not warrant further or additional
SEQRA assessments; and
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury Zoning Administrator (the
"Zoning Administrator") prepared and forwarded to the ZBA a
Zoning Referral Form, dated April 6; 1994, which authorized the
ZBA to review the area variances described therein, in accordance
with the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance; and
WHEREAS, a public hearing was scheduled on the Application
and notices of the public hearing were duly published, posted,
and mailed in accordance with the requirements of the Zoning
Ordinance and state statutes; and
WHEREAS, a public hearing was held on April 21, 1994 to
consider the Variances requested by the Applicant and determined
to be required by the Zoning Administrator in connection with the
Applicant's proposed subdivision as described in the Application;
NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY
RESOLVED, that the ZBA establishes itself as the Lead Agency
for purposes of uncoordinated SEQRA reviews of the Application
and EAF; and that based upon the entire record before the ZBA
(the "Record") which includes the information in the EAF, the
previous SEQRA reviews of the expansion, the Planning Board's
Site Plan approval and modifications thereto and the Aviation
Mall subdivision Plan submitted to the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board by the Applicant on March 30, 1994 (the
"Subdivision Plan"), the ZBA determines and concludes that the
granting of the Variances constitutes an unlisted action under
SEQRA, as defined by 6 NYCRR 617.2(kk); and that no potential
negative environmental impacts will result from the granting of
the Variances.
IT IS HEREBY FURTHER RESOLVED, that the ZBA hereby makes the
following findings, determinations, and conclusions with respect
t.o Variances described below;
1. the Applicant has advised the ZBA the parcels, as
indicated on the subdivision Plan and in the
Application, have been created to satisfy lender-
imposed requirements in connection with a loan
~ 29 -
transaction necessary to finance the construction of
the previously approved expansion to the existing
Aviation Mall. Specifically, the Applicant's lender
requires separate mortgage lien parcels as security for
the several phases of financing required to construct
the approved expansion. Some of the existing and
proposed buildings and parking improvements located or
to be located on certain required lots will not comply
with provisions of the Zoning Ordinance or the Town Law
as described below. The Applicant has requested
variances from such provisions so that the parcels
described in the Subdivision Plan and the Application
will be in full compliance with the Zoning Ordinance
and applicable state statutes in order to separate
parcels. Parcel numbers in this Resolution correspond
to the parcel numbers in the Subdivision Plan and the
Application.
2. Parcels 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 do not satisfy
the minimum lot size of twenty-five acres, or the
minimum lot width of 800 feet required by 179-27.1(A).
3. Parcels 7, 8, 9, and 10, because they each have a
building to land ratio greater than 12,000 square feet
per acre, do not satisfy 179-27.1(A). Additionally,
those parcels do not satisfy the 500 square foot of
land per 150 SF GLA requirement of 179-27.1(A).
4 .
Parcels 1, 7, 8, 9, and 10 do not satisfy the
front, 30 foot side and 30 foot rear
requirements of 179-27.1(C) because they
contiguous shopping center buildings.
50 foot
setback
contain
a. The improvements on Parcell are contiguous to the
existing buildings located on Parcels 8 and 9, and
therefore, parcel 1 does not satisfy the 30 foot
side setback.
b. The lot lines of Parcels 7, 8, 9, and 10 generally
conform to the respective building footprints and
as such, said parcels also do not comply to the
front, side, or rear setback requirements.
Generally, each parcel will have a zero foot
front, side, and rear setback.
5. Parcels 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10 do not contain enough
permeable surface to meet the 20 percent permeability
requirement in 179-27.1(C).
6.
Parcels 7, 8, 9, and 10 are each incapable
accommodating the number of parking spaces required
comply with the 5.0 spaces per 1,000 square feet of
as set forth in 179-66(C).
of
to
GLA
7. Parcels 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10 do not have the
minimum road frontage required by 179-70 of the Zoning
Ordinance and 280-a of the Town Law, and the actual
physical access to these parcels will be provided
through Parcell. Also, although Parcels 5 and 6 have
frontage on Aviation Road, access to those parcels from
the public road system will be provided via Parcell,
and not via the frontage of those parcels.
8. The requested Variances, assuming the conditions set
forth herein, will not produce an undesirable change in
the character of the neighborhood. The neighborhood
consists of commercial uses. The Application was filed
in connection with the expansion of an existing,
operating enclosed regional shopping center. Other
nearby uses include three gas stations/convenience
- 30 -
stores, a Burger King restaurant, a Howard Johnson's
Motel and Restaurant, and other commercial uses. The
variances requested and as conditioned, do not change
the configuration or the use of the existing and
approved, but not yet constructed, buildings and
structures located on the property as depicted on the
approved Site Plans. Therefore, the Variances will not
have any adverse impact on the character of the
neighborhood. Further, the use of the property is and
will remain consistent with both the Town Master Plan
and the Zoning Ordinance which expressly permits the
use of an enclosed shopping center in the ESC-25A zone
in which Aviation Mall is located.
9. With the variances conditioned as set forth herein, no
detriment will be created to nearby properties. Two of
the five zoning districts adjacent to the property (HC-
lA and PC-1A) are designated as areas of intense or
moderately intense commercial development and as such,
will not be negatively effected by the proposed
subdivision of the property. As discussed above, the
property is located in an area in which commercial uses
predominate. The three other zoning districts
adjoining the property, MR-5, PR-42A, and SFR-l0 are
separated from the Mall by a 150+/- foot wide strip of
land owned by the Niagara Mohawk Power Corporation,
which includes power lines and natural vegetation, and
Aviation Road (NYS Route 254). Therefore, the
Variances, if granted with the conditions set forth
herein, will not create a detriment to the nearby
properties.
10. There is no other feasible method available for the
Applicant to pursue and achieve the benefit sought
other than the requested Variances. The requested
Variances are necessary in connection with the Parcels
to be created by the Applicant's subdivision
application. That subdivision is necessary to
accommodate a lender imposed condition which mandates
the legal subdivision of land into those parcels set
forth in the Applicant's Subdivision Plan. Absent such
subdivision, the Applicant will be unable to secure the
funds necessary to finance the construction of the
previously approved expansion, and the Applicant will
be unable to proceed with the approved expansion
project.
11. The requested Variances, as conditioned herein, are not
substantial. The granting of the Variances will not
change the configuration or the use of the property as
previously approved by the Town Board, Planning Board,
and local officials. Although the individual lots
require Variances as described herein and in the
Application, the fully integrated enclosed shopping
center as a whole will, upon completion of the
expansion, comply in all respects to the Zoning
Ordinance, including the density requirements of 179-
27.1, the parking requirements of 179-66 and the
frontage requirements of 179-70, and Town Law 280-a.
Moreover, the additional buildings and related site
improvements which make up the expansion will be
constructed as specified on the Applicant's approve
Site Plans.
12. Granting the Variances with the conditions set forth
herein, will not have an adverse effect or .impact on
the physical or environmental conditions in the
neighborhood or district. As discussed in paragraph 8
above, the Application was submitted to the ZBA in
connection with a 105,000 +/- SF GLA expansion of an
- 31 -
",-
existing operating enclosed regional shopping center
located in an area which supports three gas
stations/convenience stores, a Burger King restaurant~
a Howard Johnson's Motel and Restaurant and other
commercial uses. Based upon the existing commercial
uses in this area, granting of the Variances will have
no adverse impacts on the physical or environmental
conditions in the neighborhood or district; nor will
the expansion create any such impacts.
The expansion of the Aviation Mall was previously
reviewed in accordance with SEORA by the Town Board.
The Town Board~s review of the expansion included
consideration of traffic, stormwater, soil, and other
environmentally-related reports. Upon completion of
its review, the Town Board issued a negative
declaration and concluded that the expansion would not
have any potential significant environmental effects.
The Planning Board subsequently granted the Applicant
Site Plan Approval for the expansion in January 1991.
The Planning Board recently reviewed and approved a
modification to the Applicant's Site Plan Approval
which among other changes, reduced the expansion to
105,000 +/- SF GLA. As part of that review, the
Planning Board found that no negative environmental
impacts would result from the modification of the
Applicant's Site Plan Approval. Based upon the Record,
the previous SEORA review of the 106,000 +/- SF GLA
expansion and of the modified Site Plan Approval, the
ZBA hereby concludes and finds that the requested
Variances will not adversely effect or impact the
existing physical or environmental conditions in the
neighborhood or district.
13. The difficulty facing the Applicant is not self-
created. The Variances and the subdivision approval
which the Applicant has requested is required by the
lending institutions as a condition precedent to the
lending of funds necessary for financing the
construction of the expansion. Absent the requirement
to subdivide, the Applicant would not require any of
the Variances. The difficulty is not self-created, but
rather is imposed on the Applicant by an independent
third party, i.e., the Applicant's lenders..
Furthermore, even if the ZBA determined that the
hardship was self-created, Town Law 267-6(5) provides
that the ZBA would not be precluded from granting the
Variances.
14. The Variances with the conditions set forth herein, are
the mlnlmum necessary to grant relief from the
Applicant's difficulty. The Applicant has established
that it has only applied for those variances necessary
to satisfy the Zoning Ordinance and state statutes for
the purpose of obtaining subdivision approval by the
Planning Board for a fully integrated enclosed shopping
center, in accordance with the previously granted Site
Plan Approval. Except for the relief requested in the
Application, Parcels 1-10 comply in all aspects with
the Zoning Ordinance.
15. The ZBA is authorized under Town Law 280-a(3) to grant
variances from the provisions of Town Law 280-a if
enforcement of those provisions would create a
"practical difficulty or unnecessary hardship, or where
the circumstances of the case do not require the
structure to be related to existing or proposed streets
or highways...." As discussed in paragraph 10, without
the granting of the Variances, including the variances
- 32 -
from the requirements of Town Law 280-a and Zoning
Ordinance 179-70, the Applicant will be unable to
obtain the financing required to fund the previously
approved expansion. Therefore, strict enforcement of
the provisions of Town Law 280-a in connection with
the Applicant's proposed subdivision would not only
result in a practical difficulty but also create an
unnecessary hardship. Furthermore, the applicant has
committed that adequate and sufficient access will be
provided and maintained on all parcels shown on the
Subdivision Plan and the Application through the
execution of a Reciprocal Easement Agreement. All the
parcels shown on the Subdivision Plan and Application
will be part of, and integrated with, the Aviation
Mall. The Aviation Mall has been designed and approved
for vehicular and pedestrian access from the parking
fields, and public roads. The entire Aviation Mall
will be accessible from Aviation Road (NYS Route 254).
Ample physical access presently exists throughout the
mall site and from the mall site to adjacent roads for
emergency vehicles to gain access, and such access will
continue to exist after construction of the approved
expansion. Therefore, the circumstances as they relate
to this case do not require any structures within the
subdivision to be related to existing or proposed
streets or highways or to have direct frontage on or
physical access to same.
16. It is the intent and a condition of this Resolution
that an subsequent owner of all or any of the Parcels
described above shall be subject to the benefits and
burdens of the Site Plan approved by the Town of
Queensbury Planning Board, the requirements of the
enclosed mall zone, other zoning regulations, and the
Town Master Plan except as varied herein, as such may
be modified from time to time by the Planning Board or
other governmental agency with jurisdiction, in the
same manner as the Applicant.
It is a condition to the ongoing effectiveness of the
Variances, that a prOV1Slon shall be included in any
instrument conveying a fee interest in Parcels 1
through 10, or any of them, providing that,
1. the grantee's interest in the parcel(s) is subject
to all of the benefits and burdens of the Site
Plan approval in effect at the time of the
conveyance, as granted by the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board or its successor, and as
subsequently modified by the appropriate Town of
Queensbury Board having jurisdiction over site
plan approvals; and
2. The grantee's interest in the Parcel(s) include
easements and/or rights to parking, common mall
areas, access and egress; utilities (sewage,
water, lights, etc.), signage, and lor any other
rights or easements, so that use of the subdivided
Parcel may continue in the same fashion as if the
Parcel was still part of the whole and under
single ownership as currently exists.
If such provisions are not so made,
granted herein shall no longer
respect to the parcel(s) for which
not made.
IT IS HEREBY FURTHER RESOLVED that for all
reasons the ZBA hereby approves the Application
the recommendation of the Warren County Planning
then the Variances
be effective with
such provision was
of the foregoing
notwithstanding
Board.
- 33 -
',-
IT IS HEREBY FURTHER RESOLVED that the foregoing variances
shall terminate upon the happening of all the following events:
a.
All construction financing by all
improvements shown on the approved
been satisfied and/or discharged
has occurred thereunder;
lenders for the
Site Plans has
and no default
b. The proposed ten lots are under common ownership;
the subdivision creating such lots having been
dissolved by Planning Board condition or action 6r
having been abandoned by the applicant.
c.
There
lender
is no mortgage or the lien of any mortgage
is secured only by the entire site.
Nothing contained herein shall be construed to provide the
current owner with the right to maintain separate, permanent
mortgages on the parcels, once temporary financing is concluded
and the owner or any subsequent owner holds title to all
subdivided parcels.
IT IS HEREBY FURTHER RESOLVED that based upon the Record,
including the EAF, the Applicant's approved Site Plans for the
105,000 +/- SF GLA expansion and the Subdivision Plan, the ZBA
hereby grants the Variances requested by the Applicant in its
Application, subject to the conditions set forth hereinabove. It
is the intent of the ZBA to grant all relief required by the
Applicant in connection with the creation of Parcels 1 - 10 as
set forth in the Application and on the Subdivision Plan, and the
construction of the expansion in accordance with the Site Plan,
and the ZBA hereby grants all such relief, subject to the
conditions set forth hereinabove.
This resolution shall take effect immediately, and the Clerk
of the ZBA is hereby directed to file a copy of this Resolution
with the Town Clerk and the Warren County Planning and Community
Development Office. The Code Enforcement Officer is hereby
authorized and directed to issue a Zoning Permit in connection
with the expansion project.
Chairman
Zoning Board of Appeals
Duly adopted this 21st day of April, 1994, by the following vote:
AYES:
Turner
Mr. Menter, Mr. Maresco, Mr. Carvin, Mr. Thomas, Mr.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Miss Hauser, Mr. Karpeles
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Theodore Turner, Chairman
- 34 -