1995-11-08
L
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QUEENSBURY ZONI,N~eO~RD 0f:APREA~S
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
NOVEt1.e.~R ¡f3, .19,9.5
INDEX
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Area Variance No. 84-1995
Tax Map No. 126-1-7.2
Joanne Hunt 1.
Use Variance No. 86-1995
Tax Map No. 120-1-20
Jacqueline Liapes 9.
Area Variance No. 87-1995
Tax Map No. 120-1-20
Jacqueline Liapes 14.
Area Variance No. 75-1995
Tax Map No. 41-1-25, 26
Alfred & Mary Ellen Kristensen 9.
Use Variance No. 85-1995
Tax Map No. 91-1-1
Leemilt's Getty/Petroleum 14.
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THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT to éOARD
AND S TAFFí! ¡REVI~HONS . :1R;EVI§;¡fq.~$i W,ILL APPE,Aij ON d. THE FOLlt.q,wING
MONTHS MI~UTES, (IF ,¡A;NY, ) AND, .l.,JILL,,~T,ATE SUCH: APP/R:O,VAL OF BArD
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(Queensbury Z8A ¡¡J¡'ê;eti'rt~f·:1.'l1819!>!)
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD" OF APPEALS I.
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FIRST REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 8, 1995
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
FRED CARVIN, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS THOMAS, SECRETARY
THOMAS FORD
DAVID MENTER
BONNIE LAPHAM
ROBERT KARPELES
WILLIAM '. GREEN
PLANNER-SUSAN CIPPERLY
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
N~W BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCÊ NO. å4-1995 JOÄNNE HUNT SR....1A OWNER: SAME AS
ABOVE SOUTH SIDE OF LUZERNE ROAD 6TH'HOUSE EAST OFWGF FIRE CO.
2 APPLICANT PROPOSES A 264 SQ. FT. DWELLING UNIT ATTACHED TO HER
GARAGE FOR USE BY HER MOTHER, AND SEEKS RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-
71, WHICH REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF 800 SQ. FT. PER SINGLE-FAMILY
DWELLING UNIT. TAX MAP NO. 126-1-7.2 LOT SIZE: 3.36 ACRES
SECTION 179-71
JOANNE HUNT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 84-1995, Joanne Hunt, Meeting
Date: November 8, 1995 "Project Location: Luzerne Road
Proposed Project and Conformance with the Ordinance: Applicant
has constructed a 264 square foot living area, attached to her
garage, for use by her mother. This does not meet the minimum of
800 square feet required by Section 179-71 for a single-family
dwelling unit. Criteria for considering an Area Variance,
according to Chapter 267, Town Law 1. Benefit to applicant:
Applicant states that she would be able to care for her mother if
allowed to keep the living space. 2. Feasible alternatives:
There does not appear to be a physical limitation that would
prevent the construction of a conforming house on a conforming
lot in this situation, since the applicant owns 3.36 acres in a
one-acre zone. 3. Is this relief substantial relative to the
Ordinance? The relief is 66% of the requirement. 4. Effects on
the neighborhood or community? The existence of this unit does
not appear to be having an impact on the neighborhood at this
time, but there may be comment at the public hearing. 5. Is
this difficulty self-created? Yes. The applicant received a
building permit in 1993 for a garage and a lean-to roof off the
side. The lean-to area was converted to living space without
benefit of any further building permits. Now, a situation exists
which requires relief from the Zoning Ordinance or removal of the
structure. Parcel History: The main house square footage is 864
(Assessor). The property was purchased by the current owner in
1976. Staff Comments and Concerns: This seems to be an
extremely small amount of space to live in. A small, 14 x 60
mobile home would have 840 square feet of space. The future of
this unit, if approved, should be determined, i.e. Can it be
rented, etc. There is an overhanging porch on the living area,
which appears to encroach on the side setback 10 feet
required. SEQR: Unlisted, short form EAF review needed."
MR. THOMAS-Nothing from the County.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
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MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is the applicant here, please. Okáy. Would
you come to the microphone. Okay. Does everyb09Y ¡ ont~e .B,pard
understand the applicant and what they're requestirig? ·bRay. Is
there anything significant that y~u'd car~ to ad~ to .your
application? '
MRS. HUNT-Nothing.
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MR. CARVIN-Oká.y. Are theré any que~'tions b$ttt1le'" Board? i :·Ökay.
When was the lean-to converted?
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~RS. HUNT-In the last six months.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay, and how did tHis COme t'ó 'our attentlon~ I 'guess?
MRS., HUNT-My husband and I b.qught propert:~ dó~n' t'he roaiÇ¡, a
mobile home ói,l . its own p~opefty.· j1J~' had an a'ppràJser come. in
because we put ö'Or home up flor collateral, and an a'ppraisetcame
in and had tp appraise our property.
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MR. CARVÚ~(":'6káY. So I g,uess yOùr mother is Ii v i ng i h' thén~ 't ight
now?
MRS. HUNT-My son is living there right now, but he~s ~óihg to go
to the mobile hom~, and my mother is going to live in, the
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apartment.
MR. FORD-Your ri'tothe'r is' where right no'w?
MRS. HUNT-She's at my sister's right now.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay.
months, has it?
So it's been occupied for aþpr6~imately six
MRS. HUNT-Probably about six months.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. What kind of plumbing, heat, ~jtchen~ what are
the facilities?
MRS. HUNT-There's natural gas, an~ hbt wat~r.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is there, I assume, a kitchen in it?
MRS. HUNT-Yes.
MR. CAR~!N-8athYoori't~ 'fVll bàthr90m?
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MRS. HUNT-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Boy, ¡ 264; $qV~fre 'fe.et. I i ¡
MRS. HUNT-It's not big.
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MR. CARVIN-No, I gue'sit i'n't.
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MR. MENTER-Is it an efficiency type1
MRS. HUNT':'Yes.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay.
Any other questions of the appliçant?"
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MR. FORD-You reçeiv~d a building permit for the l.an-~o~
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MRS. HUNT-Yes.
MR. F'ÖRQ-oKày ~ bul yóu did not' get I 6:n~; ;,tq enclp~~' tþå't I a nd ma ke
it an éÞartment?'
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting
11/8/95)
MRS. HUNT-No.
MR. 'FORD-Why?
MRS. HUNT-I didn't think I had to have one.
there.
It was already
MR. FORD-You had to have one for a lean-to, but you didn't think
you had to have it to make an apartment out of it?
MRS. HUNT-We converted it into an apartment.
MR. GREEN-When you were originally doing your lean-to structure
did you have this in mind..~t the time?
MRS. HUNT~No. We have a truck and two cars, and we had the one
car garage, aDd I had,bought the old truck from my father. We
were going to put the truck in there and so forth.
MR. GREEN-I was looking at
that outsid~ wall has got
then what appears to be a
just seems like maybe, if
don't know.
your drawings here, and it seems like
a three foot drop in the ground and
pretty good footing underneath it. It
it was just going to be a lean-to, I
MRS. HUNT-I believe they went by what (lost·'w·ords).
MR. FORD-Was there a new footing put in, on that outside wall, as
a part of the enclosure?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. The inspector came and looked at the floor and
the footings and everything.
MR. FORD-For the lean-to?
MRS. HUNT-For the lean-to.
MR. FORD-Because I had noticed that as well.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Sue"this is 3.36 acres, is it?
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. It's one lot.
MR. FORD-I don't want to delve
family history, but because it
live, is she currently alone?
into the personal history, or the
does impact where your mom will
MRS. HUNT-No. She lives with my sister right now, and her
husband in their home. I wanted to try tb give her a separate
unit for herself.
MR. FORD-But she and her husband are not together?
MRS. HUNT-Her husband's dead.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and the existing garage is still currently being
used as a garage?
MRS. HUNT-Yes.
MR. GREEN~Is there a fire wall between the garage and the
apartment?
MRS. HUNT-No, there isn't. That was, the inspector said I would
have to do that, we would have t6 p~t a fire wall in there.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. FORD-Did we' get a full an~wer to your question' ab·oÚt:. ¡ hd~ it
was brought to our attention?
MR. CARVIN-Well, it sounds like it was brought to
because you hád the property apprðised?
our attention
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MRS. HUNT-The property was appraised by an appraiser.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
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MR. FORD-Wher. did thðt lead you?
MRS. HUNT-He apparentl y, I don't know how the zon,i ng man cam~ "
MR. CARVIN-Hatin?
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MRS. HUNT-Håtin, came' the next day to the house and said the
appraiser had let. him know that we had this her~, and th~t'~ how
this came about, because we had an appraiser for 00i ót:.her, you
know, the purchase of the property down t~3. .r;cr~d¡·i· I '~r,,)I! )J !i::n1q
MRS. LAPHAM-I ,think what happened was the ~pprai~,er:w~~ask~,d to
go and do an appraisal 'for 'collateral for the 'bðn'k. 'When' the
appraiser got there, they discovered they were appraising a two
family and not a one familY~~ which is '·what they probably thought
in the beginning. If they thoµghtthat was a garag~~~d a~,an-
to, ,those were the plans you submít'ted, then. the appraiser w'ould
go thinl~J:n'g it, was, a one family, and 'it.'s .a complet~ly different
form.' It's'acomplètely different typ~ of appraisal that you do
on a multi. ., .
MRS. HUNT-He was appraising the property becàuse' :~e ~~ere
borrowing money. He was from. the bank.
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MRS. LAPHAM-Right, ~nd the banks áre quite stri¢t on whet~er~t's
a single family ri3sidence 'or whether it's a multi' fámily
residence, and whether or not it conforms to z,oning iT) the ~Tea.
So that was probably how it . tame t~ light. When the appraiser
discovered it, he felt bound to, at least if not inform the
zoning inspector and building inspector, he c.rtainly felt. bound
to inform the lender that he waswor king for'" .' "Ii 'i
MR. CARVIN-Does that a nswe)" your quest ion, Tom? Th~t'1 målÒ~s sense
tome. Okay. Any other questiQDs, anyone? Okay. If .~ot, I'll
open up the public hearing. '"
PUBLIC I¡IEARING 9PENEP
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GLEN GREGORY
MR. GREGORY-My name is Glen Gtegóry. I live a~407 Lu~~rne Road,
Queensbury, the closest neighbor that Joanne has. " I know the
structurä. It was constY0ct~d s6 that it meet~'~nd"exceed~ the
Queensbury Code. The purpose of the place is she's going to move
her mother in there. She's rec~ntly widowed, has. large house
that she cannot mai ntai n, cannot' take care of', f í. nðncial l'y or
physically. This way she's close to,Joanne. Joann~ can watch
over and take care of' her, and"'¥or on'è person, the siz'eof the
hou.se, I don't feel, is too small. There's a full bat.q~, kitchen,
living room, and a little bedroom off the side. '1'~e b~en in the
place. It's very wel,l done, very nicely done. I believ~ you
should grant this var lance, so she could put her mo'ther' up there
and take care of her, and let her live her l¡fe out. I've know
Joanne for a number of years. She boùght'that placeJí'n '76, a
two by four shac k . She, put a IQ,t, of plan to it, a .lot. of eff,ort.
Right now it's a nice appear i n'g' yard, a nice appear 1'l'Ig home,' and
constantly upgrading the land. She's a, quiet neighbor, minds her
own business, doesn't bother anybody, and we"get <Hong good.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. KARPELES-Where do you live in rølation to her?
MR. GREGORY-Right up the road, 100 feet from her.
MR. FORD~You're on the east side of the pole line?
MR. GREGORY-Yes.
MRS. HUNT-Where it says Gregory's Mobile Home Park.
MR. GREGORY-That's my place, yes. I believe that she's doing a
fine thing by taking care of her mothe~, finding her mother a
place to live. I think she should be granted a variance and .live
and let live. The plàce meets and exceeds the Town's
requirements. It's a very nice place inside.
MR. CARVIN-Ok~Y. We appreciate your comments. Thanks.
MR. GREGORY-Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, any additional questions?
MR. FORD-When was your .mother widowed?
MRS. HUNT-She's been widowed for a number of years. I think
roaybe Glen's getting confused with my stepmother down the road.
~y dad just passed aw~~ in July. This is my mother I'm talking
about. I think maybe he got confused.
MR. GREGORY-Sorry.
MRS. HUNT-That's okay. My dad died in July (lost word) my step
mother, but she's not the one. It's my mother, and her husband
has 'been passed away for a number of years, probably five or six.
MR. 'GREEN-So there is no house to sell. You said she's with your
sister nòw?
MRS. HUNT-My mother is with my sister.
MR. GREEN-Right.
MRS. HUNt-The one that I want to build the apartment for. My
step mother is down the road.
MR. CARVIN-Let me see if I understand t~i~'now. O~ay.1 Your
mother's in the garage apartment. You're currently in the house?
MR. FORD-No. ; Her son is in the garage.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
house.
Her son is in the garage.
Mom is in the
MS. C¡PPERLY-Her sister'~ house.
MR.'CARVIN-Well, no, I mean, who's in the house?
MRS. HUNT-I am.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay, but you're moving, right?
MRS. HUNT-I'm not moving.
MR. GREEN-The son is ~oing down the road.
MR. C'ARVIN-The son is moving.
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(Queensbury Z8A Meeting 11/8/95)
MRS. HUNT~Down to the trail~r next to my step mother.
MR. FORD.2..which theY're.payins,;¡for as a result of col'iateral on
the pieces of property. ," '
MR. CARVIN-Okay. 50 where is your son goingt,o live?
MRS. HUNT-He's going down to the trailer that we )~st purchased,
next to ~y step mother.
MR. CARVIN-How old is your son?
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MRS. HUNT-He's 25.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. GREEN-You've got 3.36 acres there. I mean, what's the
feasibility of building something conf6rmipg on th~ lot~
MRS. HUNT-You mean another home?
MR. GREç:N-Yes, a. tra.i.ler or another homé?'
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MRS. HUNT-I think that it's too narrow as it goes 6Ut:' My
property juts out like this, but it l1arrÇ>wsrigb1=-~¡,dqwn~"and
there's no access to get intothe'ba¢,k,"tbepower lines,arer1ght
the'"e next to f¡¡e, and I bUtt against' 'a junkyarq i,l1 the back, so
there's no ,access.
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M$. CIPPERLY-Anòther possibility' here
additional space onto the garage urlit,
feet, unless you want to call it
requirement for that is 600 square feet.
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would ~e,to 'add some
to make ,the 800 iquare
an apartmènt, and the
MR. FORD-Help me
building permit to
~nclosed that, and
your' mo1;.¡her .
MRS. HÜNT-Right.
understând t'he seqù~nce'. You received a
build a lean-to, and about six,months ago you
ma~e ít ary apaf~ment ~b y~u 60Uld~are for
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MR. FORD-Six months later, the Qnly person who. has lived in there
is yout ~on, ¡~h9, if ybu built it for yþ~r mÇ>theJ?
MRS. HUNT':':Ught ~ We~Ù, he did a lot of" tht) but ldi 119 o'n it, . and I
told hUn, he didn"t have. a place to live, àhå I wanted him tÒ, he
was going to live' thereia short' time ~ntil hè could find anot;.her
place. Well, n6w we've got the other placé"for him, and no'w my
mother can move in there. He '~as ~oing to get an apartment or
whatever, but now , we'~e got the trailer, down th~, road, ~hich
we're redoing right now. My husband's working on it now~'and
he's going to mqve down, there, and she's going to move into the
apartment. "
MR. KARPELES-You say, if we approve this variance, you would have
to build a fire wall, is that r¡ght1 '.
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MRS. HUNT-Yes, well, I'd have to put it into the.gqrage.
MR.KARPELES-Is that a 'pretty expensive thIng, a fire wall?
MRS. HUNT-Not according to Mr. H~tin.
MS.. CIPPËRLY-It'$' a certain type of d:"YWall.
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MRS. HUNT-It's a certain type of drywall that you h~ve to buy.
It's regular drywall, according to Mr. Hatin.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting
11/8/95)
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Well, I don't know. I feel like I~m on the
horns of a dilem~a here. I've got people coming in telling me
that they need 1300 square feet for their lawn mowers, and I've
got people coming in telling me that it's okay to put their
mother in 264 square feet. So I'm very, very confused. You've
got 3.3 acres here. You've got a son that's living in, I'm
assuming, a fairly large trailer.
MRS. HUNT-This trailer, I believe, it's an old trailer. I don't
really know what size it is, because we just acquired it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is it bigger than 264 square feet?
MRS. HUNT-I have no idea.
MR. CARVIN-How big is it?
MRS. HUNT-I don't know how big it is. I don't know the
dimensions o~ it. It's an older mobile home.
MR. GREGORY-I know the mobile home she bought. It's a 12 by 65,
which is 750 square feet. Years ago, people lived in a 10 by 40
mobile home, two or thre. or four people. We're talking about
one person.
MR. CARVIN-I still think.that there's an awful lot of room here,
that ,If we're gQing to have a second dwelling, it's single family
one acre. We've got three acres here. I think we've got pl~nty
of room to bring it up to speed, is my feeling on this. I think
that it should beexpanded to, if it's going, to be a single
family, dwe¡ling, 800. If you're going to call it an apartment,
it's got to be at least 660.
MS. CIPPERLY-It really doesn't fit a multi family definition.
It's really a stand alone single dwelling.
MR. CARVIN~Yes, single family. I think we're just opening up a
can of worms here. We~Ve had other gar~ges that converted into
apartments, and the next thing you know, mom moves out and we've
got a rental, and I'm not quite sure I want to be renting 264
square feet places. That's ~ feeling on this.
MR. KARPELES-Well, I agreed with you before I went and looked at
the place. When I went and looked at it, it's really neat, and
it is an asset to the neighborhood. I just wonder if there isn't
éome way we can limit it, so that, as long as her mother was
living with her, ànd she was alive, that this would be approved,
but somehow it would have to be ripped down or have to be
enlarged at some time, some future date.
MR. FORD-When the mother no longer occupied it.
MR. CARVIN-I did~'t know the mother was occupying it to begin
with. How are we going to know when she's not there? Any other
thoughts?
MRS. LAPHAM-What will happen if this variance isn't granted?
MR. CARVIN-Well, I would say they'd either have to make it larger
or convert it to th~ lean-to that it was originally intended to
be.
MR. THOMAS-I just think 264 square feet is too smàll, and I
really don't see how they can get a full bathroom, a kitchen, and
a bedroom, or even a bed in there, in 264 square feet. That's
got to be packed in there. That's awful small.
MRS. HUNT-The kitchen is very, very tiny. It's more like you've
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(Oueensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
got, it's built like a bar into the kitchen area. It's like a
mobile home. It's not a separate kitchen and a separate living
room. It's basically all one, like an efficiency.
MR. CARVIN-Well~ if there's no other comments, I'm going to ask
for a motion.
GENTLEMAN IN AUDIENCE
GENTLEMAN IN AUDIENCE-I believe that living space is a little bit
bigger than that.
MR. CARVIN-Well, that'~ what we've got here. That's what we're
looking at is 264 square feet. Does anyone care to make a motion
approving this? Okay.
MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 84-1995 JOANNE HUNT, Introduced
by Fred Carvin who moved foríts adoption, seconded by Thomas
Ford:
The applicant has proposed and actually constructed a 264 sqvare
foot living area attached to her garage. This does ~ot meet the
minimum of 800 square feet required by Section 179-71, for a
Single Family dwelling unit. The applicant has indicated that
the benefit derived would be that it would allow her to care for
her mother. They have indicated no feasible alternatives.
I-:Iowever, it ,W04~d app~ar,that ¡,.,¡ith 3~~6 acres in a ..one..acre.,~pne,
.plus the ,.fac~l;i ,,~.t)at th~re! is. '~'11 .att.~ched gara~e t:~~tl¡ ÇQU~9 be
converted to, l'lvlp,g.space, ther;eç1oes a.,Ppear to be ptqer f,~i:¡.s).ble
alternatIves' tha,r;¡'~Q 2tA ~quare""re~t, :'1 ,feel thatthisrelíef is
substan,t;.ial. ,. they¡óre asking fqr.66: p'ercent re'Ilef from the
requirement of $ÖOsquare fee'!:. AXthough t.here d,oe$ ,. not appear
to be any .major impact 'on ~he' n~¡bhb~rhood ai this t¡m~, I feel
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that We would be settJ,ng" a dang~)~quS precedent by allowing the
cqnst ruçtiqn, of ~64 SqUa:r'I,':J, foot;. I i:J¡ ng spaces. It does appear
that this d¡fficulty ~s self c)'eated as ·t.he qpplIcan't;. receiv'ed a
builqing pe,r.mit in ,19,93 for. a garage' and a leâ'n:-tq roof, .off the
side, w.hich wa$ IaÚn. cònverted,tpliving sp:aè,e without. the
benefit of any fµrther builØiD~ ·Þermi~.~~ '
í.
Duly adopted this 8th day of Novembe)", 1995, by the following
vote:
MRS. HUNT-Why would yoG have to ha0e
mean, the building is already there.
another building permit to change that?
MR. 'C'ARVIN-BecaUse you're bu I Id.t ng "som'ethi ng ;. that you . didn't
request. If that wai the case, everybody would come in and say,
I'm going to build a shed, and then go out and build a 50 story
hou.se .
that in order to change, I
Why do you have to have
MR. FORD-In August of 1993, the structure approved was for open
storage, according to your drawing.
MS. CIPPERLY-There are also just a lot of different requirements
for living space versus storage space, too, as far as fire safety
and electrical and all that kind of thing. So it's a State Law.
It.'s a State Building Code.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham,
Mr. Carvin
NÒJ;::S: Mr. Karpeles
M~S. HÜNT-Is the~e any way that 1 can build on ~o that to make it
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
more square feet?
MR. CARVIN-Those questions would be better directed to staff.
MS. CIPPERLY-I would say call the Building Department, draw up a
plan that's at least 800 square feet. Call Dave Hatin and talk
to him about it, because I don't know what all the structural,
you know, if you wanted to convert the garage or that sort of
thing. So I would say call Dave, and just tell him you didn't
get the variance and you want to know what to do in order to
expand like out the back of the garage.
MRS. HUNT-I can build another complete house on ther~?
MR~ CARVI~-You can build three of them. You can have
three, assuming that there's no other difficulties.
MS. CIÞPERLY-Shê'c'ould build twó'io¡í'ft. r'ihink' when
three you have to start subdividing, and I think with
would be maybe a problem.
a total of
you get to
her lot it
MR. CARVIN-But she certainly can build two.
MS. CIÞÞERLY-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-All right.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 75-1995 TYPE I WR~lA AlFRËD & MARY ELLEN
KRISTENSEN OWNER: SAME As ABOVE LEFT OFF ROUND POND ROAD ONTO
MANNIS RQAD, RIGHT OFF MANNIS ROAD ONTO FITZGERALD ROAD,
SO~THEAST SHORE OF GLEN LAKE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO ADD A 744
SQUARE FOÖT MASTER BEDROOM AND STAIRWAY TO AN EXISTING
NONCONFORMING HOUSE., R~LIEF IS REQUIRED FROM SECTION 179-60,
WHICH REQUIRËS A 75-FOOT SHÖRELINE 'SETBACK, AND SECTION 179-79,
WHICH STATES THAT NO'ËNLARGEMENT MAY EXCEED 50 PERCENT OF THE
GROSS FLOOR AREA OF THE bWELLING PRIOR TO THE tOMMENCEMENT OF THE
FIRST ENLARGEMENT. THE GROSS FLOOR AREA OF THE ORIGINAL
RESIDENCE WAS' 1,372' $QUARE FEET. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING)
10/11/95 NEW MAP SUBMITTED WCTY 11/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 41-1-25,
26 LOT SIZE: 0.717 ACRES SECTIÖN 179-60, 179-79
~R. CARVIN-The Area Variance 75-1995, Alfred & Mary Ellen
Kristensen, they have requested a tabling for 60 days to research
some dilemm~s and problems that just recently arose. So if
anybody 'is here for that particular application, why don't we
table that.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 75-1995 ALFRED & MARY ELLEN
KRISTENSEN, Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoÞtion,
seconded by Chris Thomas:
For 60 days, to allow them to research some aspects of the
application.
Duly adopted this 8th day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham,
Mr. Gr~en, Mr. Me~ter, M~. Carvin
NOES: NONE
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So that application is now tabled for 60 days.
USE VARIANCE NO. 86-1995 TYPE: UNLISTED SR-1A JACQUELINE
LIAPES OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE CORNER OF HOWARD ST. & SHERMAN
AVENUE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO INSTALL A MOBILE HOME ON A PARCEL
OUTSIDE OF A MOBILE HOME OVERLAY ZONE AS DESCRIBED IN SECTION
- 9 -
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
179-'2,9. RELIÈF ,IS SdUGHT FROM THIS SECTION AND FROM SËêTION 179-
19, $ÜBURBÞ,tN RESIDENTIAL, WHERE A MOBILE HOME IS"NOT AN ALI,.:OWED
USE. TA~ MAP NO. 120-1-20 LOT SIZE: 0.19 ACRES ~ECTION 179-
19, 179-29 '¡,
DAISY DUELL', REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
, ,
STAFF INPUT ¡
Notes from Staff, Use Variance No. 86-1995, Jacqueline Liapes,
Meeting Date: Nòvemb~r 8, 1995 "PROPERTY LOCAtION: êorn~r of
Upper Sherman Ave. and Howard St. PROJECT DESCRIP1,ION AND
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE: Applicant proposes to 'install a
mobile home, on a parcel outside of a mobi Ie hO£IJ~ over lay ,zone.
Suburbàn Residential - Ohe Acre zoning, Section 17~-19C, does not
allow mobile homes. "USE VARIANCE REVIEW CRIT~R~A.BASE~, ON
SECTION 267'-'8 OF TOWN LAt:.I: 1.1$ A REASONABLE 'RETURN POSS'iBLE
IF THE LAND IS USED AS ZONED? The dimensions of this lot, 55' x
150' make it difficult, though not impossible. ,tQ site a
conventional house. The adja6ent lot ahd others to the north are
wi thi n a Mobile Home Ov~r lay zone. 2. IS THE ALL~?E.R,HARD$HIP
RELATING TO THIS PROPERTY UNIQUE OR DOES IT ALSö AÞPLY TO A
SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE DISTRICT OR NEIGHBORHOOD? ,I.t appears
that when the zones were created, there was an ~ttempt to
separate the mobile home zone from Upper Sherman Av~nue. .This
created a st.rip of parcels which' contain i mixtdt~of' pre-
existing mobile homes ,and conventional home~ alqng, Sherman
Avenue. There are six parcels on $h~rmàn betwe~n Leo and Howard
Streets which are similar in size to this one. 3. ¡S THERE AN
ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE' ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF 'THE NEIGHBORHOOD?
It appears that this proposal could be objectionable to th~ o~ner
of the house to the east of the subject parcel, but no comment
has b~en rec~ived to date. The neighborhood to the north, is
predominantly mobile homes. 4. IS THIS THE MINIMUM VA~IANCE
NECESSARY TO, ADDRESS THE UNNECESSARY .HARDSHIP PRO~EN BY. THE
APPLICANT' ANb AT THÈ' SAME TIME PROT'ECT THE CHARACTER OF!' THE
NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE , HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELF,ARE OF ' ,THE
COMMUNITY? It'appears 'to be. $E'OR: Unlisted actïon, short form
EAF review required."
MR. THOMAS-Nothing, again, from the County.
MS. CÌPPERLY-Right.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is there anythi ng that ,Xo,,-+ ~(q:c,91~r.:.k~Haq~ !6;,Q'l the
application?
MS. DUELL-No, nothing.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Are'there a,ny questions of the app1i.C'an1;.?
MRS. LAPHAM~I~ Jacqu~lineiLiap~~ g61ng,to livé in this mobile
home?
MS. DUELL-Yes.
She~s goinQ t~ ço~e back.
¡ ,
MRS. LAPHAM':"She's, going, to: come back from Arizona and live in it.
MR. FORD-Is that the parcel~f land that has the For Sale sign on
it? There's one with an arrow.
MS. DUELL-There's one behind her. She on the corner of Sherman
and Howard, and there's one behind Howard.
MR. CARVIN-It appeared to be that there was a driveway that 'had
been bulldozed in the back of that ,lot. Is that Part of that
lót, or is that part of the other lot? '
¡ t
- 10 -
_. ~
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MS,.. ÇIPPERk Y~I tþi n~ t\1at's the ~Qt o,~, HowarçJ str~~1:;,.
,¡parrow", I ¡i<;,e ': ;.5'::.tqot;.', lo~ frbT)t~T)9 on I:'iO,watd str:~et.,
"wi~,hiD' the' MÒ!?ilé' '~on)é Zone, and' :~hef1 the Li~pes::~ot'
coYner 6f Howárd and Shermán.
There's a
Hhich is
is on the
MR. CARVIN-Okay. This one was off Howard. It was
back or on the north side. It looked like there was
MS. DUELL-It's all sandy there. It does look like
(lost word) offered for sale.
MR. FORD-So it's not, that lot that's in question?
. i ;' - ,I .. , ; -; : - ~ j ,;
toward the
a driveway.
a, but that
I
MS:'~ DUËLL ":'NC)~
'r·.··
t' fi
MR. FORD~OkaY. I just wanted to confirm that. Thank you.
~R ~ ",¿8~,VI~-:Wbat ,y~at :,: I::? th'i's mobib.è home going to b~,~, do you
know? " , , '; ",".,'.,,'
MS. DUELL-Well, she will get, I'm sure, ,a new one.
¡'; . , ' . I: ~,'. \" I <-' -, ¡ !
:J:'1R.;'G,~~,YÎ~~A'n.d'she'd b~ ther~! full tfn¡tf?,
: -~ j -; -~ ";1 ~,-- ,
MS. DUELL-Yes. '
MR. KARPELES-She owns the lot now?
'MS~ DUELL-It was her father's. It's hers now. Yes.
!'''' -1(~, !!.I( _ --~
",M,R'I: "CA~VIN-:Af1d, ha,<~ ~"o4 :, ta I k~çJ 1:;,0
T'rêmbI'åy't : ,I I"
the, n;~ighbor 1;.0 the east,
I ' ~ ..
MS. DUELL-I've talked to some people up in that area, but I don't
"k¡~P9r" :'1', " : , !
~::: Mf{.- þ.4~~iN~¡ d~q~ ~:t!, ~T)9,W (: i f l1eh~:q eXP~;Efs~Jd arl OPl n~on ,to you
on~ way"py; ; t.he other., O~ay. I:s Mr" Tre,m1;Hay here"tonlght? No.
, Okay. .Is 'there any cor.res'ponCerlce 'TromM+-. Tremblay'?
MR. THOMAS-No. We do have correspondence, but his name is not on
it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions? Okay. I'll open up the
public hearing.
puaLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARVIN-Correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. We have a Record of Telephone Conversation
received today, at 4:15 p.m., conversation between Susan C1pperly
of the Planning Staff, and two nearby land owners, T~m Grace,
owner of nearby property on south side of Sherman, opposite
Heresford, built house for Kayla Fitz, lives at 456 Sherman,
subject is the Liapes application, Number One," bought
property with intention of building single family homes in the 85
- 100 thousand range Is concerned about property values and
precedent if this variance were granted Area is upgrading and
this would be a step backward" And that's it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and this is the comments indicated by both?
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MS.
just
CIPPERLY-Yes. Mr. Grace said he had been out of town and
got back yesterday or today, and the other person mentioned
- 11 -
'--"
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
called him up and asked him if he was coming toth¿' m~~tlng,
which he couldn't do, but he called on behalf of bQt~h of the,fJ\ to
express their' concer ns.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you. Any other public comment?
, ' ,
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-To~, any que$tions, com~ents or thoughts?
MR. FORD-I ,can,appr'eciate the fact that this person owns the
property, and th~refore would .liketo use it ¡fo~ thii purpose,
but. I ,am very ço'ncerned about an e~pan'sion of the Mobi ~e Home
zone, ~hlch isin ~s~en6e what is beihg requested. Th.re are
certainlyaJter'native w'ays, of ,addressing her 'r,et.urn home' and
living in th~t mobil~ home,'or ah~ other. Sevei~l alternatjves
come to mind.
MR. KARþELES-I essentially agree with what To~ said.'
MR. MENTER-I just have.. a question. Sue, what
were those two gent1:émein i nvolv~d with'?
parc~ls, exac~ly,
"
"
MS. CIPPERL Y-I made, you ~' COpy of the tax map. Heresfo)idLane is
just to the east', probably about, w¿ll, it's got to be within 200
feet, because he rec~íved one of ou~nótices that go ouft6'the
500 foot radius land owners. So he'd be to the east and across
" 'I
the street.
MR. CARVIN-Do you know where that is, Dave?
MR. MENTER-Yes, I have a general idea.
MR. CARVIN-Well, it's where it says the Mobile Home zone here on
the tax map. I bel ieve Heresfo)-d Lane runs up thai; way" and
there àre all brand new homes. So it kind of gòes uþthis ~lley
here, and those are all non mobile home type constructi6'n. Okay.
Any other comments or questions?
MR. MENTER-Yes. My comment would be, I would prettY,ffiuch echo
what Tom said. I don't see Justification for expanding't,he zone.
MR. GREEN-Sue, the Lee parcel, on the,corner of Leo, 'do you know
what sort of structure is on there? d, ,
MS. Clp:pb~~¥i'::N'6r. I do~~t.
. ""k1' "',,, "<,", ,'J", ,'(,(, "·H
I díd'thís'map at'ter. ('tame back from.
MR. GREEN-Do you happen to know what kind of stru6turethai is on
the corner of Sherman and Leo? It's just down one block in the
same position. Do you know whàt type of structure that is?
MS. DUELL-No.
MS. CIPPERLY-I do know that fu~ther down, probàblY around L9ts,
maybe 63 and 64, I think'there were two mobile h~mes that looked
, , ". ; ,'_ ' , i r r, _ ' , . _" j , ! ~ : .
maybe 50's vintàge, that were set quite a ways back, b~t I thlnk
I would have notic,ed if there was another mobile. home right on
50. '
MR. CARVIN-I didn~t,see any.
MS. DUËLL-I know therè's mobile homes on Howa)-d Street.
,
, ,
MR. GREËN-Right:, bùt they're in the zone. That's my question, is
that this Lêe 10t<isJout of the zone, and I was trying . to see
what kind of structure was there. I don't remember myself what
it ~às. I have the same concerns as the other members, that I
really don't like to expand out of th~'Mobile Homezohè'if we can
- 12 -
\",../ ~'
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
avoid it in any way.
MRS. LAPHAM-I tend to agree with Mr. Ford and Mr. Green, that I
don't think there should be expansion of a Mobile Home zone.
There are two mobile homes I remember seeing this afternoon when
I looked, but they w¿uld be nonconforming also. We would just be
adding to more nonconforming. , :
MR. THOMAS-I'd like to bring up a point that was not þrought up
in the variance application, the fa6t that She~man Avenue is a
collecter road, and in the SR 1 Acre zone, a 150 foot lot width
is required. Being a collector road it needs to be double that,
or 300 feet lot width, and this was not a part of the
appli~ation. Also, I agree with the other Board members, that
this is not the place for a mobile home, on the corner of Sherman
Avenue and Howard street, that like the phone conversation from
Mr. Grace said that they are starting to upgrade this
neighborhood, and that a mobile home on the corner there, right
on Sherman Avenu~, outside the mobile overlay zone would be a
step backward. .
MR. CARVIN-Were these preexisting noconforming lots?
MS. CIPPERLY-They're preexisting. The other thing that could be
said is you could say that it fronts on Howatd Street, but the
point is well taken that it could possibly.
MR. THOMAS-No. According to the Ordinance, 179-30.1, if it
fronts on two roads, he has two front yards.
MS. CIPPERLY-Right.
MR. THOMAS-So he would have to conform with the 300 on Sherman
Avenue.
MS. CIPPERLY-I'm'not certain that if you have a preexisting lot
that would apply.
MR. THOMAS-It doesn't say anything aböut that.
MR. CARVIN~If it was a preexisting lot
would have a right to build on the lot,
points are well taken. Okay. I'd ask
there's no other comments or questions.
it would apply. They
but I think the other
for a motion then, if
MQT¡OM TO DENY USE VARIANCE NO. 86-1995 JACQUELI~E LIAPES,
Ihtroduced by William Gieen who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Robert Karpeles:
Applicant wishes to place a mobile home on a parcel outside the
Mobile Home Overlay Zone. It has been suggested that the lot,
55' by 150', could support a stick built structure, rather than a
mobile home, which would conform to the Ordinance. It appears
that there would be a hardship to the existing neighborhood.
Most of the homes in the area on Sherman Ave. are upgrading and I
feel that a mobile home in this areà woùld be a step back.
Düly adopted this 8th day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
MS. CIPPERLY-I'd just like to point out that even a conventional
one would require probably an Area Variance. I just want to make
it clear. In case you come in with a modular or a stick built,
you'll still need an Area Variance for setbacks, partly because
it is a corner lot. So you may see the Liapes name again.
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter,
Mr. Karpeleä, Mr. Carvin
- 13 -
--./
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
NOES: NONE
AREA VARiANCE NO. 87-1995 TYPE It SR~lA JACQUELINE LIAPES
OWNER: $AME AS 'A,BOVE CORNER OF ,HOWARD ST. & SHERMAN' AVE.
APPLICANT, PROPOSES, TO tN$TALL A MOeIL,E HÖME AND SEEKS REL¡EF FROM
THE SETBACK RQUIREMENiS' 'OF SECTION ,179-19, SùBURBAN RESID'ENTIAL.
:TA)(j.~AP ~p .t~q~:~';"~O,; LOT SIZE: '0.19 ACRES ' SECTION 179-:,79
MR. CARVIN-That ki n'd' of r:Jegates the ne~d for the Area Variànce.
MS. CIPPERLY-Right.
. ,
MR. CARVIN~So we'll remove Area Va~i~~ce No. 87-1995 from the
agendå. '
USE VARIANCE NO. 85-i 995 TYPE: UNLIS'TED NC-I0 ì:.Ë~A1L T 'S/GETTY
PETROLEUM OWNER: SAME AS AeOVE122 AVIATION ROAD OD1XON-ROAD
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO REPLACE" tw6 tOMME'RCtAL 'uSES 'THAT WERE
ALLOWED BY USE VARIANCE NO. 14-1993 WITH TWO NEW USES. -- RETAIL
, ' , . ,..... . c· c. '·1
MODEL TRAIN SALES AND SALE OF CUT 'FLO'WERS . RELIEF IS SOUGHT r:ROM
SECTION 179-25, WHICH DOES NOT LIST'THESE AS ALLOWED US~S. TAX
MAP NO. 91~1-1 LOT SIZE: 0.32 ACRES SECTIQN 179-25
R.J. SNYDER, ,RiË'þ,RESETING APpLICANT, 'PRESENT
STAFF INPUT '
Notes from Staff, Use V~r1anc~ No. 85-19~5, Le~milt's
Ge t t y IPet r 0 1 eum , Meet i ng Da te: ' November 8, 199~ "II PROJECT
LOCATION: Aviation Road at Dixon Road PROJECT DESCFÜPTIÓN AND
CONFORMANCE' WITH THE ORD,INANCE: Applicant receive'd a use
variance in 1993 to utilize a portion of the þuilding'as a carpet.
store and fQr ¡ p~lnting shop. The variance was clearly granted
t.o the carpet storelpr i nt shop onl y ~ 'Appl1êànt now" seeks to
replace tho~e 0ses with a model train shop'.nd ~ flori~t shop,
which are. not, allo,wed uses in a neighborþoódc,om.m(;3r¿iå! zone,
Section 1¿9-25. the ,pro~osed use 'does 'not meet the density
requirements of, Se'6tiot"l 179-2'6, I which requires, at least ten
thousand square feet of, land area t,o establish any allowable use
of up to' two thousand square' fee:!;, 'of 'grOSS' f Iocr àrea for
commercial space. This means thatifor . three uses i 1;) this zone,
at least 30,000, square feet w0l.,11d b~ required, and the applicant
owns only 9,315 squ'are feet of lánd. This si tuatfon would
require an area variance. Therè is a fourth uè, an a~artment,
above thestores,~which, at 1,316 sql.,1are feet, is in compliance
with th~ l~$Ob s~uare feet allo~ed for it. USE VARIANCE R~VIEW
CRITERIA. BASED ON SECTION .267-b ,OF TOWN LAW: 1.' IS A
REASONABLE RETURN POS$IBLE IF' THE LAND IS USED AS ,ZONED'? The
appli~ant has pfovided no financial evidence tô ~upport this
applicat~on . 2. I,S THE ,. ALl.EGED . HARDSHIP R'E/""'ÃTING to' THE
PROPERTY UNIQUE, OR POES ,IT ,ALSO APpLY TO A SUBSTANT~AL PORTION
OF THE D~STRICT OR NE1GHBORHOOD? '~his parc¿l is one.~f many in
the immediate area ' zoned' Neighborhood Commercia.! '..:." 10, which
would be subjectlo the saroeu$eq~strict.ions,,~, IS THERE AN
ADVERSE EFFECT ,ON THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF 'THE NEIGHBORHOOD?
Considering its location and configuration, and the existing
traffic patterns, use of this parcel for multiple commercial
pursuits is not advisable. Conditions applied to ,previous
approvals in regard to creating one~way traffic, flow have not
been carr ied out, so the sit~' is sti 11 used as a short-cut from
Dixon to Aviation Road, and parking areas are not utilized
properly. 4. IS THIS THE MINiMUM VARIANCE NECESSARY TO AbDRESS
THE UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP PROVEN .BY THE APPLICANT AND AT THE SAME
TIME PROTECT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHeORHOOD AND "THE HEALTH,
SAFÊTY, 'AND WELFAR£; OF tHE COMMUNIty? Si nce the ap'pl icant' has
not provided fi~ancial infoTmetion, this question is not pos$ible
to answer. PÄRCEL HISTORY: This parce1 was the ,subject of, the
following Board actions: Zoning Board Use Varlance 53~1992 -
- 14 -
'"-,, -"
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
Proposed to have auto repair shop in existing bays. Withdrawn.
Use Variance 3-1993 - To expand nonconforming carpet store into
a~to bax~. Tabl.~,,~ppaTently, laps~d~ Use VariaDce 14-1993 -
: ApprÓ'val grant~d ',grHy to, car,pet store ..'?nd ' pr/~it'shop.; Area
,q Va~~'flnc,~ 55-199'3 -' ,:,t1IloweÇl d~crease~"n~,¡'mt:?'~r qf .Þ,é:i'r~ing sPqces --
~r~t;lt;.~<t,fbX . on~)'fear '9'n 9ì15/?3. P'lqnni \'v~êoa)'d, S~t.e,P Ian ~2-63
:"';NQ~."a¿t.iön ta~'en,.$ite 'plan 47-93 '- Ap'Proved \:'lith conçliti9ns,
prima~ily cohc~~ning traffic flow. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS:
It does not appear to staff that enough financial information has
bee~ Þr6vided tó properl~ evaluate this application. It may be
best to table the application until this is provided, but allow
public input tonight. It is up to the Board as to whether they
believe the density and parking area variances should be applied
for simultaneously wit~ the use variance. It seems it would be
difficult to grant the use variance sought, if the density is not
met... ,S,ErOR: l!nl¡~teq;~c1=-.~~,n. Short F,orm EAF must be reviewed. II
I . ,~~! . r _ :·1. . _., ,¡ - j" '. - '~. _ ; : . , , ¡! - !
"MR ~ n1Ç>MAs.""'And,nót~~ D¡~i; frorn the CouDty.,
; ¡.. I .. I, ,1 ,
MR~ "CARVIN-I:~ tt\l~re! h~~ythiD9 th'at yç,u"d care t'?
'~:;Ìg:útfJ.'ca't)ce to )i'our aþ,,~i'icatíof1? ,¡ "
,'..,f ' "j';' . -' ,'.'. '
qdd
"
of
MR. SNYDER-Good èv~hing. My name is R '.J. Schneidet. "'I am an
agent for Getty PetroleL¡.m. I have with me some expense, profit
and expense paper wor~ that I'd like to hand out, records from
the year '93 and '94. I apologize that the appl~¡G,ation, didn't
include this material, but last Monday, or the MÖnday before I
believe it was, I was contacted by Getty Petroleum that they had
a problem at this site with the lease. They had entered into a
i tt)rø~ y'~qr ~ease" The leasee went to the site, started doing
"some' ~òr k, noticed" that there wa,s, ~ome~,~affic , cut.t,if\~'irt'~rough,
called the Building Department, and wantèd to put up á'barrier in
the re~r of the property. The Building Department and the Zoning
D.~art~ent info~med them that, in fact, the last variance was use
specific," and once that use ended, the variance ended. The
problem with how fast they had to make this application was,
'Getty nee'8êd to sÖme action goi ng right away, and the leàsee was
left holdin~ an empty apartment. Getty ~as obviously open to a
suit for renting out a property that they didn't know, and to get
out some of my notes and maybe fill in some of the blanks of
that. Leemilt's is seeking a Use Variance. I didn't know at the
time that I was 'also going to need an Area Variance and
subsêquent other variances that the zoning office is (lost word)
tonight. So if we could, I'd like to include that in this
application, otherwise I'd have to follow up with another. The
, ~4,þj~Ct:" Þr,opert,y is located at the cor ner of Aviation and Dixon
~~ad~ iw'hi¿h ,t'm'! s,ure everyone is fqmi I iar with! it. At this time,
there',$a ret:.'ail ',gas st.ation and an upstaIr,s. apartlrl'ent' at the
site. ;, There was' a can;et business. ,..,L'I't's 'my undefsfanding it
hasD't . ' b.~D" i f,I by~,~1î.~ss. for, qb04,t, si x months, also with the
pr lht'~n~, pµsi. ness. '16 199~.~ Leem i l't. 's w.as gr a nt~d, ,a Use Val' ~ a nce
to 'allow a'" carþet store àT'id pr inti ng bµ'sH T'i~ss tobe loeràted at
the proposed location where we;re'pro:posing"~ model' train
1iq~~,¡ nes:¡s and a cÚt flower shop. ,At the time, the variance was
I' ~þ~'ci,fic,tot;,hos~,s~~ßs. .The condi. tion for the past l,Js~ Variance
'were 'thè' traffic lssüê "and parking issue be addressed. The
conditions were to have the site properly striped, one way signs
to De installed, and a guardrail to be installed between the
neighboring property, to allow proper parking per site plan
approval. Although the arrows were painted, it's come up through
my research that none of the conditions were done. There are
.~aryy ,x;easqns for that, q,nd ¡~~l, goin~ t<;:> ,give you a couple, and
we;:~~gp flom I~hérê.,' Le~milt P'et,roIeum ' i~,q $ubs.idiar,yof Getty
P~t:rb1.e'µm. :k:. A~: t:h,e <~fld q,T, ~ 99~ ,'the, Compåny w~nt thrç.u~h a major
're-òrganizàt:. ion 'wi t11 numeròus layÓf,fs, pr imar i 1 y 'i n the rea 1
estate department. The löbàlsatelfi teofficeswer'e closèd, and
all real estate was consolidated to their main offices in
Jericho, New York. Where once theré Were many local area real
- 15 -
'-- .--:
(Queensbury ZBA Meet.ing 11/8/95)
estate 'reps, the area was enlarged, to' ql,.li te a few less 'reps. In
fact, it's one'girl sitting in aD office down in Jerichþ, New
York with all these files. Yhe~ åreas weré' enlérged
signifi~antly, .~d many proble~s have been surfacing since then.
This is one of them. It's a business probl~m. these' kinds of
variances where they're conditioned like this, I do a I¿t of
thei rapP,¡ications for a lot of the major oil corpÇ>rations, and
usually when we get variances with conditions, 'or site plan
approval witb conditions, they're ba~ed on the C of t, all things
to be done ~efore we get a Certificate of Completion, or aC of
0, that type of thing. It seems that what Gett~'s'ielling me is
they' )'e grossly i ncompeta nt at this t im~ , because of ' all the
layoffs and everything else. They pay their bills because ,the
bi lis come in, the gb'l wr i tes the checks for the taxes and the
water and ~verything else, but actually there's no on~ out there
looking through the files saying, look at this site here has a
use specific variance. So that's one of the reasons why things
weren't done as they should have been. I'd like to address some
of the $taff reports, i ncludi ng the cr iter ia. 'Nuhlber One,
regardIng the rea~onabl~ return if used'as zoned. The prior
approvals that we received for allowing the bay area ~nd'the
other little part there that ~as used for, we'recéllin~ the
flower shop, it was a printing business.' Those approvals were
based on us proving that in fact this site could mainta'io a
profit Just ,with gas sales. Nowadays, gasoline stat'ions èannot
survi~e on gas alone. It's obvious everywhere YOU go.
Everybody's got a snack mart now. You can't survive in the gas
market with gas alone. Now Getty has a problem in that they
don't really compete in a store type business,. They lease
property. They try to just sell petroleum. Th~yown a lot of
properties, Þu.t you don't see any" Getty, you do seè a ,~Getty
marts, but t~ose are individually owned. ' 1hey'r~ not owned by
Getty, like a Mobil mart or a Shelf mart or that typeof'thing.
So they're not really in the grocery business, and th,is site,
obviously, wouldn't fit into a grocei~ business areå, when the
grocery ~tore '8 right there a'nyway. So Numper Two is: the
hardship unique to this property' and t'his zone. It is unique to
this zone. It's a retail gasoline station. Gasd11ne. stations
are a unique business where you have underground stora~e tanks.
You have environmental problems, conCerns. You have' a lot of
underground pipi~g. You have your pump islands. You have your
dispensers. This site, unlike all the other sites in the whole
neighborhood, can't be easily converted fór anó~her use.
Nobody's going to buy this site and con0ert it to a snack mart, a
house, an, office building, because no one's going to take the
liability. When a gas station's been at a location, no'one is
going to go iri there and buY it end turn it into so~ething else.
It's just not ~~st effective. ,~obody's going to ensure them.
The probl.m~ are unique to this individual site, ånd this
neighborhood. Is there an adverse' e,ffect on the neigbb6rhood or
the ~ssential character. The fact is that this site pre-dates
local zoning. It wa~,built as a r~tail gas with an auto repair.
It~smy understanding~ from the reseårch that I've been doing, is
thåt the bays Were abandoned. they ,tr ied to gÒ back in, open
them up again. Theysáid, look, you'~bandoned them once. You
had your chance.' that's it. Find some other uses for it.
That's when the Q~her ideas c~me up, wh~tare we going to do, and
they found someone to lease it as a carpet type business' and a
print shop. There's r,ally no major changes at,this site. As
you see it now ~s probably'hQw it was built. There's been no
addition. The neighborhood is a mix of commercial and
residential. The site was built for gas sales, and repair, along
with multiple00ther uses. There is an apartment upstairs. As
far as I know, there's always been an apartment upstairs. As far
as I know, those rear entry ways, or little store ways were
always somewhat of a store of some sort. Number Four, is the
minimum variance necessary. It was my hope, when Getty contacted
me, that. I would be able to come in'here and argue that we proved
. f
- 16 -
..q.~ -.....,./,.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
before that we had an economic hardship. We need to put
something in there. This business can't survive on just the gas,
and when I found out whèt they were proposing, which is a, it's a
small speciality hobby~upply store is what it is. They're going
to sell brand name trains that you can't buy at like Wal-Mart or
something like that. So if you're a real train collector, you
would go there, but your average Joe for Christmas, or someone
that's going to buy a train, wouldn't go there and buy these
trains, because they're fairly expensive, and it's a specialty
store. It isn't g6ing t.o cause a lot of traffic. We're not
goins to be accessing the bays. The carpet business was using
the bays for deliveries. The 40, 60 foot rugs were being brought
in by transport. Bäy doors opened, dropped off, and then taken
off. One of the conditions in our site plan approval was that
the deliveries of the rugs couldn't be at the same time as the
deliveries of the gas. There was a real concern that there was
goinS to be a traffic problem there, if the bay doors were being
used só much. So these two businesses are no more, are going to
cause no more traffic than what was there before. In my opinion,
it's going to be a lot less. The printing business, I'm assuming
if it was som~ what of a going business, got a pretty steady flow
of business. This proposed flower" shop, I believe Staff mentions
it as beins a florist shop. It's not a florist shop at all.
They get deliveries of pre cut flowers in boxes, and sell them.
Carnations, you go ~n and buy some roses for your wife. I have
three kids and a wife, and I've never been to a hobby shop to buy
a train, and I've never, I'm sorry to say, I never buy flowers at
a cut flower shop. I'll buy them at a super market or that type
of thing. So I can't believe that these two uses are really
going to intensify the area. Just a few things. Get.ty has
entered into a three year lease, as I've said, with Ralph
Garafolo, who's with me tonight, and I met him at the site
tonight, I met him for the first time, and he laughed and said
that, gee, w~ called up because we didn't want this traffic.
They wer~ in there fixing it up, painting it and that type of
thing, and they look at the door, you Board members probably know
that everybodY just shoots right through from Aviation to Dixon
Road. When I was there, at least four people did it. In
reviewing the notes of the last go around with the Zoning Board
and site plan review board, I noticed that people wanted a
guardrail' or some way ~o block that off, either block the
~ntrance and exit, but what I came down to, negotiated out to be
a one way. Speaking to the new leasee, he's got, as I said, a
lon~ term leaée, with an option to continue that for three years.
He says that he would like, it was his intent, after seeing the
traffic, that he wants to put a guardrail. He shouldn't really
be punished beçause Getty's restructuring has made them maybe a
little mOre in~ompetent.. T~lking to Getty, the girl down there,
she thought, it doesn't really matter what she thought, but she
thought, well, gee, couldn't you blame, isn't it the landlord's
fault that that wasn't done? How am I supposed to know that we
were supposed to do all of this, and I said, well, that's neither
here nor there, but ,in the business world, there's problems all
the time, and in my opinion, this is a very minor problem. I
mean, it's too bad that these conditions weren't attached to
something as a C of 0, or site inspection ih 30 days by Planning
or the Building Department. Regarding the 30,000 square feet per
commercial use, I believe that came up, 10,000. There's got to
be places for small businesses, with cheap rent, either starting
off, or if they don't plan to be that large and that busy, small
busine~ses, if you've got that kind of land and you've got access
to that kind of a building, then you're not going to have a small
business. You're going to be a developer. So I really think
that these two type of businesses are perfect for the site. I
mean, in my opinion, you couldn't find anything better. Looking
at the Zoning Ordinances, with site plan approval, you could put
a laundry mat in there, and I would imagine that you'd have cars
goihg in that spot right there constantly. So our application is
- 17 -
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
for a Use Variance, and if we could get the parking variance
that, I guess we received a parking variaDce that. was only ,good
for a year, and I don't know, I could find nothing in the files
that said why. I'm assuming that they wanted tp see if the
parking arrangement worked, and regarding the 3,000 square feet,
or whatever it is, that t.o me is, this is a pre-existing site
with multiple uses. The proposed leasee who had the lease, but
actually isn~t a real lease, becau~e obviously it.'s in default,
told me that he spent quite a time pIcking up around his place
because people actually dropped off, mattresses, and that type of
thing. So if the idea is to l~ave this place empty and dark, not
only are you going to be creating a problem, for Getty, they're
not going to be able to be solvent at that location, but you're
also going to be creating a mess, because I was over there, and
you can see thàt'people are just dropping' off garbage ' and
creating other problems. Any q~estions?
MR. FORD-! just want to take issue with yoU final statements
relative to who's creat.ing the problems.
MR. SNYDER-How so?
"
MR. FORD-Well, I don't believe that we're creaiing the problem,
as you allege.
MR. SNYDER-I'm not sure I unde~stand which one, about the people
dropping stuff off, that type of thing?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. SNYDER~I'm not suggesting that this Board is.
saying that if it remains vacant, it. could happeri.
I'm just
MR. CARVIN-Any questions, Bob?
MR. KARPELES-This mixed rentals, that's everybody that rents that
place, that's what the income was from all around?
MR. SNYDER-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-$52,790 for 1994.
then I take it?
That includes the gas station
MR. SNYDER-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-AIl right.
MR. CARVIN-That's actually in '83,1 think, isn't it, Bob?
MR. KARPELES-1994.
MR. CARVIN-To 1/94, so essentially 1993.
MR. KARPELES-Yes, and it goes from $52,790, some how it gets to
$52,970.
MR. CARVIN-It dropped the following year, down to $46,000.
MR. KARPELES-But then the next year it went down.
MR. SNYDER-I'm sure it's because the pla6e is vacant for, it's
been vacant for six months now.
MR. CARVIN-Well, that would still put it into 1995. So this is
February of '94 through.
MR. FORD-January 3ist.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting
11/8/95 )
MR. CARVIN-Of '95.
MR. THOMAS-Ten months ago.
MR. CARVIN-Yes.
MR. KARPELES-Don't you think that the flower shop and the
proposed model train business are going to generate a lot more
traffic than the print shop and the carpet shop that were there?
MR. SNYDER-In my opinion, they might be somewhat. It's possible.
I don't know. I mean,' I really don't. They're not going to
generate a lot of traffic.
MR. KARPELES-They're goi'ng to have to generate some or they're
not going to exist, right, survive?
MR. SNYDER-Well, that's true. You talk about 400 square feet
herè for the proposed flowe," shop. Now regarding the proposed
model train business, it's a specialty shop here. The bay area
is not going to be utilized. The applicant or the leasee didn't
even want the bays, because, I mean, the other area is all set up
nice. It's got some nice walls. He went in and painted it, that
type of thing, but again, he said, well, somebody's going to have
to heat it. We want to throw it in with the rental agreement.
So talking to Mr. Garafolo earlier, he said that, well, he'd use
it for storage, that type of thing, but his intent it not to go
in there and gut it out and make this whole thing a specialty
shop.
MR. FORD-So it's intended use is approximately what it was with
the carpet shop?
MR. SNYDER-Yes.
MR. FORD-Storage of the product.
MR. SNYDER-Right.
MR. KARPELES-I'm not clear what you.r job is.
MR. SNYDER-I'm a Project Manager.
MR. KARPELES-For Getty?
MR. SNYDER-No, for Decker and
Company. We are consulting
Mobil, that type of thing.
applications. We usually do
Company. I work
engineers for Shell
We don't usually
full size rebuilds.
for Decker and
and Getty and
do these minor
MR. KARPELES-I think that's all I want to ask until the public
hearing.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MRS. LAPHAM-I went by there today. I noticed the signs are
already up for the flower shop and for the train.
MR. FORD-The train and gifts.
MR. SNYDER-Yes. I noticed those myself. I'm not really privy on
how they were put up, what permits were procured, that type of
thing. With me is the leasee, maybe he could help us out.
RALPH GARAFOLO
MR. GARAFOLO-I'm Ralph Garafolo, West Mountain Road,
West Mountain and Mount View. The problem with the
corner of
signs, and
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
the problems with everythi ng, is, you'll have to' excuse' us.
We're a little green in retail. We have a retail outlet~ ~nd we
thought ,it was just goi ng to be the same thi r1g, yOU' sign a le?se.
It's been a store before. It's a store now, and YOU just walk in
and d<;> what has to be done. :rtwasn't until it was driving me
absolutely nuts with people drivi~g through that drive through in
the back, and I had Jill, who works for me, and is part owner,
gee, why don't yo~ talk to the Town and se~ if we could put
something there, without getting in trouble, breaking laws, we
didn't know what the zoning is. So we have to ask questioQs on
everything. At that time, we realized we wefe standing on a
landmine. We had both t.he signs. We ordered,them. We bought
them. The guy is a nipe man. He calls up jill and says, gee,
guess what, I put your'signs up for you, and now we're like, my
God, what do we do with them? They're expensive. They're heavy.
We were going to go take them off. We were trying there the
other day. It's raining. It's freezing cold. Finally, to her,
I said, we're just not going to maka it. We can't do it. So,
you people say, I'll take them and throw them in the garbage, or
have something, but the signs wel~e Dough't and paid for bef10re we
knew there was a problem, and we asked the gUY, can ,you store
them. He says, gee, I've got them up. I said, to take them down
and store them, chances are they're going to get qamaged. He
doesn't want to be, responsible for them. We don't ~~o~where to
stick them. So that's the problem. Nobody is trying to give
anybody a bad time or even jump the gun here.
MS. CIPPERLY-You probably need sign permits.
MR. GARAFOLO-Well, we didn't put signs up. All we did was take
out the vynals that were there and stick vynals i~. I didn't
realize that it was so much politics. Like I said, once before
we had a sign up there. We just took it down. We stuck it 'back
up there, and we never realize4 that there was so much to do.
We're not trying to get around!ânybody. We'Y'e agreeing we just
don't know. You know when you move into Queensbury, they don't
give you a booklet or something. You can go out of your mind.
You don~t know. Just calling up to find out about the drive
through, you spend six hours on the phone, because you've get
bounced from one ~lace to the nexi, and that's how we came to be
here tonight.
MS. CIPPERLY-One thing I'd like to say, I don't have it with me.
I meant to bring it, a letter from Jim Martin to the fellow who
had the carpet business there, earlier this year, to tell him
that if he moved his carpet business out~ that a variance, agáin,
would be needed. So he at least knew he, I think, didn't inform
the othel" parties here, but he was advised.
MR. GARAFOLO-And I'll be honest with you, when it came back to
us, when we got. back to the fellow again, in dealing with this
guy, we dealt with him for three or four months, we got to know
him a little bit. The gUY' was really upset. He was upset
because he had leased out the property to us without knQwing this
problem, and he was real embarrassed, that you guys;'they had
made an agreement and not kept to it, and he assured me, myself,
and believe me, he's paying 'a lot of money for us to do ~ork
there, okay, that whatever had to be taken care of, they'll pay
for, and believe me, I know. They've given me ,$9,000 to improve
the interior of that building, just to clean it Up and make it
habitable. When they asked m,e foT. a bill, they asked me to pick
local people to do the work, as far as cleaning up, painting.
The guy really trashed the place. He really, really, really
trashed it, the last fellow that was in there. So it's going to
t.ake $9,000 worth of work, on the inside. So when it comes to,
will they do work on the outside, will some work get done, I say
that it will. I'll pay for it, lining, and for the ,parking lot.
It looks like crap, in my opinion. What I was proposing to this
- 20 -
'-- --./'
(Oueensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
gentleman tonight was, I don't know if you can see this map, but
say I have a one way through here, because believe it or not,
people in Oueensbury, they'fe not going to care if it's one way.
They'ré going to scoot through. So I would like to do is, right
dead center of that parking lot, is put up, I don't want to say a
wall', but a fence, those cement markers that YOU have in parking
lots, throw some cement down, or a nice sign that says do not
drive through and put a chain across it, and cros~ off the whole
piece, let them drive in through one end, or drive in through the
other end, but there's no going through, and you're going to make
it safe. You're going to make it safe for us inside the
building, and ~eople coming in and out in their cars, and it just.
makes it look cleaner. Right now it's a mess. I've got
refrigerators outside. I picked up some, I've got about a dozen
tires there. I've been throwing everything in the garage there,
mattresses, box springs.
MS. CIPPERLY-Jim Martin wanted me to mention, too, that the
carpet sales place had been quite a headache, in terms of
complaints, overflowing dumpsters and trash.
MR. GARAFOLO-They took every light bulb out of the place.
MS.CIPPERLY-So that's been a problem site. Probably a model
train buèiness would be cleaner, in terms of just the bulk trash.
MR. GARAFOLO-And also, due to the fact that we've got every major
manufacturer in the world, I don't know you gentlemen or ladies
understand anything about trains, but it's become a phenomenon in
a man's world. Most of these gentlemen up here had a Lionel at
some point in their lifetime. Some of them may even been into
tr~ins. Trains are a thing that men do, especially up here in
the cold weather. I've got doctors, some lawyers. These guys,
they come in, they spend more time yakking with you about what
locomotive. They'll buy a couple of locomotives a year. They'll
bµy a couple of cars. We do a pretty good shot on Christmas,
which we're not going to get there this year, but it's not a
thing where everybody comes in and out. It's not that kind of a
store~ We don't carry lower end. The lowest set of trains we
carry is $200. We've got locomotives that go as far as $9,000.
So ybu don't allow kids running out of the store. It's more of a
gentlemen and ladies store, but that's basically it. We're not
looking for a big hustle bustle. I've got that with the plumbing
and heating, and that's not what I want.
MR. FORD-Where is your other outlet?
MR. GARAFOLO-I'm over on Broad Street shopping center, right
across from Stewarts where the current, Roxy's is in there. I've
got a couple of photos of the interior, if you'd like to see what
it might look like.
MS. CIPPERLY-You'~e the store that says "Lionel" on the front?
MR. GARAFOLO-Absolutely. That's me.
MR. KARPELES-Are you going to run the train business yourself?
MR. GARAFOLO-Yes. Pretty
I'll be honest with you,
soon. I'm getting tired.
to do air conditioning.
my buns, off all summer.
tired. I'm getting old.
much so. We've got. some people, but
I'm getting 45. I'm going to be 50
I'm out in this cold weather every day
I'm out in it all summer. I'm cooking
I freeze all winter, and I'm getting
This is what I want to do.
MR. KARPELES-Now who's going to run th. cut flower shop?
MR. GARAFOLO-Jill will take care of that for us, my right arm.
- 21 -
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MS. CIPPERLY-Could you explain the relationship between ~etty
Petroleum and the person that YOU signed a lease with, and what's
the mechanics here?
MR. SNYDER-I could tell you. Gary Benson, who has dealt with
Ralph, used to be a regional manager. This used to be his
region. He was demoted, and he has since gone from wearing a
suit coat and tie to all the meetings a.nd everything else. Now
he wears mechanic overalls with his name on it to prove his
point.. They send him over to places to meet the leasees and
stuff, but, he got a big salary reduction. His status has gone
from being a regional manager to being, I don;teven think he has
a title anymore. They just send him over to fix this place.
MR. GARAFOLO-He tried to help. He had no idea what was going on.
I could tell. He really didn't.
MR. MENTER-I have a question. What is the total of t~e pa~~ing
situation that was not, the agreement that wasn't lived up to,
t.he marking, the one way marking.
MS. CIPPERL Y-Well , first of all, there was an Area' Var ia nce
because he was required to have 20 spaces, based on the square
footage, and only has 10, I beli~ye. So that variance was
granted, and the Zoning Board specified that it be one way
t.raffic through there and ,wanted it signed. We don't really know
whether this works, becau~e the signage never went up, and t.he
guardrail didn't~
MR. CARVIN-I think it did, Sue. I don't
guardrail, but I think the lines went in, but I
worked very well.
know about the
don't think it
MS.CIPPERLY-If that's ~6mething, th~ Planning Board could look
at it again, because I know they chased that around for quite a
while.
MR. MENTER-I mean, I don't see too much here, as far as what was,
you know, what the criteria was to be.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I think Mr. Garafolo is probably
track. I think a planter stuck right in the
eliminate a lot of this prob~em.
on the right
middle would
MR. FORD-At least slow them down.
MR. GARAFOLO-I put yellow cones up. I had her park the Lincoln
lengthwise and I parked my plumbing van lengthwise, and she went
next door to grab a coffee, and I went out to my truck for
something, and I'm telling you, in front of my eyes was a van.
This kid was up on the sidewalks, aDd you need to put something
definit.e there. You can't put something this big, because
they'll run over it with their four wheel drives.
MR. CARVIN-I think that if we move in that direction, I certatnly
would encourage some type of permanent structure.
MR. MENTER-Which raises the question
say it, but being it's a commercial
plan is not required o~ it, right?
in ~ mind, I hate to even
project, Point Zero, a site
MS. CIPPERLY-It was required before, for the other two uses, for
the other.
MR. MENTER-And the reason for that requirement, why was that
different than now?
MS. CIPPERLY-I'm not saying it is.
- 22 -
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. FORD-But that variance is now null and void.
MS. CIPPERLY-Right.
MR. MENTER-A traffic issue like that just raises that question to
me.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I think that was Bob's original intent on that
motion, and I think we were going to try and re-visit the parking
at some other point to see if it was working, and obviously it
just never was re-visited, and obviously it'$ not working. So I
think that we can clean up a real loose end here. All right.
MR. THOMAS-Mr. Schneider, you stated that Mr. Garafolo didn't
want the garage part, but it was included in the lease as just a
throw in to keep it heated. Mr. Garafolo, you own Garsfolo
Plumbing and Heating, right?
MR. GARAFOLO~Right.
MR. THOMAS-Do you plan on storing any of your plumbing and
heating supplies in this building whatsoever?
MR. GARAFOLO-If anything hits that place, it'll be an overnighter
or to go on the job. That'll be it, and if you don't want it
there, I won't even stick it there for overnight. Sometimes I'll
start a job on Tuesday morning. Monday they'll drop a furnace
off for me for Tuesday morning. That's it. We don't stock very
much any more. It doesn't pay any more. The most I stock is
four hot water heaters, and that's it.
MR. CARVIN-All right. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong,
but in your current shop, it seems to me that yOU have other
items besides just train things. Wasn't there glass and china
and things like that?
MR. GARAFOLO-Some ladies gift items, and I'll turn that over to
Jill.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
JILL
JILL-That store is a train and gift shop.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. So it.'s going to be trains and gifts?
JILL-Yés.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. FORD-That's what the sign says.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So it's going to be considerably a little bit
more intensive. I guess my point is that. you, conceivably, could
have more gift clientele than you do tràin clientele.
JILL-I don't think so, because the kind of thing that I have in
the gift line is pretty expensive, too, more collectable items.
It's not Hallmark, or, you know, mall kind of stuff. It's just
like the trains. Your average person who can afford to buy them
isn't your average person, the higher income. It's exclusive,
and not everybody can afford to buy them.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. GREEN-You're going to be closing your other store and moving
up here?
- 23 -
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. GARAFOLO-Probably not for another 18 to 24 months. The
landlord we're with right now is a really, ,really nice g~ntle~an.
He's done wonders for us. To be honest with you, the whole story
YOU hear about landlords, they take pretty good care of the
apartment. We want to help him re-rent the store out, and he's
been a really good gentleman. It mqkes all the money fòrus.
MR. GREEN-So your business is ex~anded where you could hopefully
operate two stores?
MR. GARAFOLO-Yes, but you're only going to be
downt.own Glens Falls so long. It's getting
there. It's getting real bad. I can't leave
anymore. I'm worried about what you see in
walking in with a gun and shooting somebbdy.
concerned. Women are very, very concerned. They
stay there in the evenings.
able to stay in
)'eal seedy down
people in there
New York, a guy
I've got her
don't want to
JILL-If you've been in the Broad Street are~ lately after 4:30 in
the afternoon, especially now when it gets dark. becau,$e of b~ing
so close to South Street, we get all kind of not good things that
come out after dark, and I'm not comfortable being in the store.
Eventually, I don't even think it's going to last that long, but
we'll see. '
MS. CIPPERLY-What would your hours be there? Would you be
operating in the evenings at this location? Would you be open at
night?
MR. GARAFOLO-We generally close at five o'clock, ma~am.
Saturda~s, we're o~en, on'Friday, in fact, 'i think we're open
until seven 0'610pk in,the evening. Saturdays, we're ten to
four. Sunday weJre always~losed,except' the ~hristmas season.
Then we get a little brazier, and to be hon~st with you, yes, we
do stay open late at night sometimes, for the guy coming for a
Lionel or something. Like' the other stores, we go crazy,
hopefully for Novembe~ and December. For the most. part, no,
we're only open for eight hours a day.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Anythi ng else? I'll open the publi~c hear i ng.
PUBLIC, HEARING OPENED
RICHARD REYNOLDS
MR. REYNOLDS~My name is Richard Reynolds. I appeared before the
Board in 1993. Mr. Carvin was here, and Mr. Thomas, and I
believe Mr. Karpeles. I don't want to give Mr. Garafolo, I think
what he is applying for is fantasti~, and we had the ~upport of
the area around them. Our major concern with the people around
the area is getting the Use Variance from Leemilt.'i, and'not. with
the understanding that when Mr. Garafolo's lease is up, they
don't try to bring in another business without,coming to us
again, j'ust like the agreement w'as with Mr. Benedetti and the
carpet store. I can say a fe~ thing~ on your, the one thing
about the traffic going through is one thing everybody I think
would probably appreciate is they paved it, and that really ,sped
things up. I live on the corner of Helen and Dixon. I face that
store. Another concern, though, was about fou~ we~ks ago there
was a fuel oil leak from that parking lot area. I'm not saying
it was due to you.
MR. GARAFOLO-No, no. It wasn't even due to the Getty station.
What that was was ~omebody ripping throµgh t~ere. their tires
ripped the cap off the fuel tank, and' when it rains, water got in
and forced fuel out.
MR. REYNOLDS-What I'm saying is, you have a fuel tank with a cap
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
that's not secured tightly in a parking area, and this is what
happens~ and they had to have the DEC come in and do the whole
clean UP and everything. Another thing Mr. Garafòlo, I don't
believe, should have to apologize for anything about the ways
that he went about things. Leemilt's had a representative here
last time. They understood that when Mr. Benedetti left, that
they would have to re-apply for a new variance. There was an
item brought up about a variance for the signs last time. If I
remember correctly, it was to that size of a space, with one sign
on the wall, and one sign standing, which Getty has. There's two
signs on the wall. Mr. Benedetti, at that time, was made aware
of it. I'm not sure if the zoning has changed, or if I'm even
speaking correctly on this with signs. I'm just saying that they
were talking about that size store, with one sign on the wall and
one sign standing.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, now that this has at least three businesses in
it, it becomes what. we call a business complex. The Sign
Ordinance did change since then.
MR. REYNOLDS-Okay.
MS. CIPPERLY-You're allowed one freestanding sign, which is
already theré, the Getty sign, and then each of the stores is
allowed a store, which is based on the distance from the road and
the size of the wall that it's on. So a sign permit is required,
even if they just change the copy. Anyway, I think what you need
to do is come in and you can get a copy of the Sign Ordinance and
see me.
MR. REYNOLDS-Another concern is, I think Mr. Garafolo wants to
put up a fence or a barrier. Now, I undetstand they own right up
to a fence th~t Mr. Sokol, or Sokol's complex owns. They're
part, too, of Leemilt's also, he told me at one time. I don't
know if it's a right-of-way, but whatever it is. I just don't
want to see you get into a conflict. I'm not hére to speak for
Mr. Sokol. It's his business, not mine, but if they decide to
put a fencé down by the back side of the property along Dixon,
then we're going to be creating a problem with the loading dock
for Sokol's Market, and then they'll be here wanting you t.o
change something.
MR. CARVIN-Well, what are you saying?:1 In othe~; words, if
something goes here?
MR. REYNOLDS-Down by Dixon, right down in the corner you've got a
shaded triangle. Right about that àrea is a loading dock.
MR. CARVIN-Well, my
thinking, is I that
pretty good size.
thinking,
I think a
and that's all it
planter right dead
is is !!l.l::.
center,here,
MR. REYNOLDS-Fine, that's pretty dark right there, though. I
work from thrée to eleven and from four to twelve, and it's very
easy for me to cut through theie because there's no cars. I go
around.
MR. ÇARVIN-I'm just saying, the second time you'll remember what
happened the first time.
MR. REYNOLDS-Right. I work in security, and I just keep an eye
out around, we've had a few shady characters up that way, I'll
say that, but the main thing is what I think the people in the
area would like to see, also, is M1". Garafolo is allowed this Use
Variance, but when Mr. Garafolo leaves, that Leemilt's will have
to apply for a Use Vatiance again, just like for the last time.
That's the main concern. Thank you. Good luck.
- 25 -
'-- -
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. CARVIN-All right. Anyone else wishing to be heard in suþport
or opposition? Any correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-No correspondence.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any public co~m~nt at all? Okay,
none, seeing none, the public 'hearing is closed,
Hearing
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Okay, folks, your thoughts, comments, critiques,
suggestions.
MRS. LAPHAM-One of the thoughts I had w~en I went and looked at
the site, and now listening to Mr. Garafolo and hearing what kind
of shop he's going to run, the building itself is really fairly
seedy looking, and I'm wondering if it's allowed to stay vacant,
if the tenants are allowed to have these two shops, and so forth,
will Getty Petroleum do something about the outside of t.he
building, scraping, painting, spru6ing up a little bit?
MR. SNYDER-It's my underst.andi ng , they've al ready told Ralph,
Ralph's insisted in the lease, he's got himself a good lease, I
guess, by going with the three years.
MR. GARAFOLO-I'm not living in a pig sty.
MRS. LAPHAM-Because it looks awful there.
MR. GARAFOLO-IL looks horrible.
MR. REYNOLD-Ma'am, that was painted two years ago, because t sat
there and watched them.
MRS.LAPHAM-It.'s horrible.
MR. REYNOLD-It was very bad paint, whatever it was.
MRS. LAPHAM-Well, that was my only thought, was if we grant this
variance, where we've got some relief as far as ,the seediness of
it, as well as the traffic with the buffer.
MR. GARAFOLO-You give me two weeks in that building, that parking
lot will be so clean yoU won't tecognize the building. I realize
it is a big mes~~ jusi the refrigerat6r's there. I'm being
certified,! can pop the ch~rgeis out of thQse refrigerators.
That's why people drop them.' It's a Junkyard. So I can do it,
and they'll be gone. It's a pig sty. I can't make money in a
pig sty. People want~.especi.ally ladies and gentlemen, they .walk
into a store, they w~ntto feel nice. The outside's got to look
good, too.
MR. GREEN-I think it's going to b~ an improvement here,
especially if we can slow that traffic down. I was pretty
familiar with the previous leasee, and never' was really' happy
with it. So I think Mr. Garafolo is trying to do the right
thing, here, and he's just gotten caught up in some things he
wasn't aware of. I think slowing that traffic down some how or
another is a wonderful idea, and it seems everyone here con6erned
it trying to make an honest effort to improve the site, and I'm
not really concerned about the tràffic. I don't see a large
number. of people coming and going at one time. You couldn't put
more than two people in the flower shop at one time. Sd, t feel
pretty good about it. "
MR. MENTER-This is what you see. if there's nòthi ng in th'ere,
t.hen the problem gets worse, and I think t~is is the t~pe of low
impact retail stuff that is suited to this. It seems to me that
- 26 -
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
the question is, what do we do about the tr~ffic situation,
because even if there's not a volume of traffid coming to the
businesses, it isn't really going to be a detriment. There's
traffic going through there that needs to be handled somehow. So
the question is, what do we do with that? I agree with Fred. I
think I like the idea of something that breaks it up, in terms of
something going right across there, like Ralph was suggesting.
I'm not sure the beèt way to implement that, though.
.", J
MS. CIPPERLY-Putting something right aCross the center that
you're going to lose parking spaces.
MR. CARVIN-I think you'll lose a part, but you'll pick up a whole
bunch, because I think you can reconfigure that parking. Because
I £hink you could próbably pick up a good three to four.
MS. CIPPERLY-They're nine feet wide, standard space is nine feet
wide.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, but what I'm saying is you could conceivably park
three or four across this way, and one or two this way. Well, I
don't think it's a major impact.
MR. MENTER-The best implementation of that, and how we should
best see that that happens, I'm not sure of the answer to that
question, but that's where I see the project.
MR. KARPELES-I agree with Dave. I think that if nobody's in
there, it's just going to sit there and deteriorate, and I would
be hard pressed to find a better use for the building than this
gentleman's proposing, and I even like his idea of putting the
divider down the center.
MR. FORD-There have been so many good ideas and observations
shared to this point, all I can do is say I agree with what was
said.
MR. THOMAS-Tom said what I was going to say, but I like the idea
of two stores in there. I don't like the idea of empty stores in
Oueensbury, and I like the idea of limiting access to that
parking lot between Aviation Road and Dixon Road. That's an
accident looking to haþpen by the way cars cut through there, and
I like ~lsothe idea of re-doing the exterior of that building
and making it loo~ better, because that is a major thoroughfare,
Aviation Road, through Queensbury, and people travel up and down
it, and they like to see the nice buildings, and I think once
they do the outside of this building, it will be one of the nice
buildings in Queensbury.
MR. ,FORD-One question I happened to think of. Is that apartment
currently being used?
MR. GARAFOLO-We're looking at taking it over, get rid of having a
renter upstairs, and then we could use it for office space or
something~ because I guess, back and forth it's been a problem, a
hard time renting. I think it's been rented three times in the
last, I believe the guy told me two or three years, and nobody's
stayed there, the longest they've ever stayed there is six
months.
MR. FORD~There's no one in there currently?
MR. GARAFOLO~No, as a matter of fact, there's a window. The
wind's been blowing against it and blowing out the window.
MR. CARVIN-Are you also going to be running the flower shop, or
is that under separate ownership?
- 27 -
-./
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. GARAFOLO-No, that'll bè us.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. ~o you're goi~g to be running the ,flower shop
and the gift shop and the model trains?
MR. GARAFOLO-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-All right. The only thing I would not want to see,
andI think Chris alluded to this, that this turnsin~o a storage
area for your plumbing business.
MR. GARAFOLO-It wo~ld hurt me more than it would really help me.
It really would.
MR. KARPELES-I'm not clear. What are you going to do with your
plumbing business?
MR. GARA~OLO-Well, to be honest with you, the trick to the
plumbing ~usiness is to have a telephone and a truck. There's
your business. You could operate out of a telephone booth. I've
got an answering service that goes,24 hours a day. So we don't
even need an office. Most of ypur paper work for the government,
and I'll be honest with you, my hands hurt. My back hurts. My
knees hurt. ~y father did it. He died at the age of 58 years
old. I don't want that.
MR. KARPELES-You're saying you're going to gradually get out of
it?
MR. GARAFOLO-Yes, siree.
MR. KARPELES-I ,guess that's my question.
MR. MENTER-Are we going to run into, I mean, we also have, still,
t.he site square footage issue. That's an additional variance
that we're looking at.
MR. CARVIN-Well, again, my feeling is that we've granted a
variance to these issues. I mean, the building hasn't expanded
or contracted si nce the last t,ime. I also agree wi th the
gentleman from the. neighbor:hood. there. , I would like to
condition this to just the, again, like we did before.
MR. GREEN-Well.. aga in, the other thi ng is, how do you police
that? If Mr. Garafolo hasn't called UP to try and do something
else, it never would have probably come beforèus.
MS. CIPPERLY-We would háve no~icèd, especially 'when the signs
went up.
MR. REYNOLDS-I'd call.
MS. CIPPERLY~Duringthe previous variance, there was a lot of
neighborhood concèrn. Primarily it just~ I read morê about this
project than I wanted to, but in the old minutes and things, it
seemed people were very concerned, about having an ,8,uto repair
shop in there, which is a use that had lapsed. I think that was
a major concern. A train shop doesn't seem to have the same
react,ion.
MR. GARAFOLO-And everybody likes a plumber hanging around. I
take care of the whole neighbo)-hood.' Believe it or not, the
closer I am, the'faster I'm there.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I'd like to really take a
14 think Dave has mentioned this. I'm not
drawing feverishly there. Did you come
parking scheme? I'd like to see some kind
look at some kind
quite ~ure~ I see
up with some kind
of.
of,
you
of
- 28 -
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
MR. SNYDER-I
I don't know
could, maybe
p 1 an, i f we do
with me.
could see where we might possibly loose a space, and
if the Board wants to give us a variance, if they
a blanket variance, per planning approval of our
put something across there. I don't have my scale
MR. CARVIN-Can we keep it to the same as before?
allowed 10 spaces, or whatever the variance was.
Because we
MS. CIPPERLY-As far as I can tell, and this happened with the
Kennel Club, also, it says all land uses in NC zones will be
subject to site plan review, which is where this parking type
thing is usually addressed. I guess if the Zoning Board wanted
to say come up with a plan that doesn't involve less parking
spaces, then you granted, really, four before.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. My only thought
this with a permanent obstruction
good solid fence or a planter, right
of the parking lot.
is that I'd like to condition
of some sort, whether it's a
in the center there, center
MS. CIPPERLY-I guess I'm not convinced that that's going to work.
Maybe there's a variety of locat.ions that you could put some kind
of a barrier. Maybe it would be better out toward the front of
the store. I've got a map, and if you put something right across
the middle of it, you'll have maybe threé. I'm also concerned
that you'll end up with cars backing out onto Dixon and Aviat.ion
Road, possibly.
MR. GARAFOLO-I would rather lose this parking spot, to be honest
with you, than have those people ripping through the parking lot.
MR. SNYDER-I think one of the problems, probably, is that you
need a twenty foot space.
MS. CIPPERLY-Drive aisle.
,MR. SNYDER-If you straighten those spaces out, you're not going
to have that twenty foot.
MS. CIPPERLY-You need a twenty foot space, and a twenty foot
drive aisle behind them. So it may not just be, it's not usually
a Zoning Board type.
MR. GREEN-I think if you just set it at a minimum of ten spaces,
and let them work it out.
MR. FORD-You'll be bringing them in at a diagonal anyway, will
you not?
MR. GARAFOLO-Correct, and I would think if you change the
diagonal of, to angle it, so that when they do park out, you've
got the whole side of the buildings. It's not like you're just
going to back right into a building, but you're going to be
backing out to the side, and you do really have a lot of space.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, maybe it would be better to get a plan drawn
up somehow to react to.
MR. CARVIN-Well, that's what I was wondering, whether we wanted
to, I guess there's two courses. We can either take a look at a
plan, or just let them say that they need to come up with 10
spaces. Certainly, no less than what they had before, to turn
over to Staff.
MS. CIPPËRLY-You could do that, or you could send it to the
Planning Bo~rd for an advisory opinion, or it's going to go there
for site plan anyway.
- 29 -
'''-"......-
/
-~
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting
11/8/95)
MR. CARVIN-Well, I just don't want to play ping pong here.
MS. CIPPERLY~I mean, you could vote on it tonight saying, with
the condition that you go get an approved parking plan by the
Planning Board, having no less than 10 spaces, or whatever, you
gave the variance before to have 10.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, no less than what was previously,
but I would wànt to see a p~rmanent obstruction.
MS. CIPPERLY-8ased ori the square footage, he's supposed
20 spaces. You gave him a variance for 10 in 1993.
to have
MR. MENTER-You don't want people, par king down the road.
to have a certain number of spac~s there because people
parking allover the place.
MS. CIPPERLY-And you do have t~o people probably driving, you
know, if you have any employees, you've got to figure a couple
for that. At the time, there was an apartment tenant who needed
at least one space. So, it came out to 20, for thesit~. You've
also got the gas station people. As I said~ come up with a plan,
because it's not going to look iikethis.
You have
would be
MR. GREEN-We could just, you 'know, I guess Sue's concern is
making is in the middle. Ma~b~ if we couidjust say a barrier to
stop that traffic, rather than slow it dow~, as it was before,
and a mini~um of 10 spaces, and let them figure out where they
want to put the barrier, and where they want to put the spaces,
subject. to site plan, if you want to do it that way.
, I '" ;: < ; ,: '. Of, I,,; r ,,"~1- 'j/1':,~,¡'-:' I ,,:'11j' ,,-,':'I;'!: ~:"_H<
MR. CARVIN-I wo~.rld q¡sk::foy: ~~~t'fI0t;.!~,on,~} f,~e c,a,n ,mAY'~:lalþe'R her:~.
MOTION TO AþPROVE USE VÄRIANCE NO. á5-1995 LEËMILT'S
GETTY/PETROLI;UM, Introduced by William Green who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Thomas F¿rd: '
Applicant proposes to utilize two business shops in the rear. of a
Getty station 'on the corner of Dix6n ~nd Aviation Road. The'area
that is going to be used has previously held two businesses. The
previous variance that was granted was conditioned upon a new
variance when new tenants wish to lease the space. This va~iance
would be conditioned:?n~ OQßn!tl)~,þ]itiis igJ;a'tr~:E19 tQ.li~r~t- .G,~tty
Petroleum Corp. to allow~ng Mr. Garafalo to operate a model train
and gift business and a cut flower shop business." The ownership
of those businesses to be Ralph Garafalo. Second, that if,Mr.
Garafalo no longer continues to conduct these businesses, that
this variance would cease to exist. I feel that the applicant
has provided significant information indicating that a reasQnable
return of the land cannot be expec£ed with6ut the use of all the
space in the existing structure. This site was ortginally built
to accommodate several businesses, and the existing, use of the
site is consistent with the mix of the uses in the neighborhood,
and would not cause an adverse effect on the character of the
¡ , ':-,,'
neighborhood. There has been public opinion that this use would
probably be an improvement to the site. Mr. G,arafalo has
expressed great concern that he would be certain to improve the
appearance of the site. The other concern is the traffic through
the rear. I wish to also condition this variance that through
traffic from Dixon to Aviation, or vice versa, be eliminated
behind the building, the blockage being of a 'permanent nature,
and to be placed so that a minimum of 10 parking spaces be
retained. The manner and method of the barrier to be determined
by the applicant, Mr. Garafalo, and to be approved by Site Plan
Review. That any and all existing or future signs meet all
required sign permits necessary.
Duly adopted this 8th day of Novembe,', 1995, by the following
- 30 -
~ -..../
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 11/8/95)
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
MR. CARVIN-A couple of items. I have an invite from Mr. James
Martin, and he says, "I want to take this opportunity to inform
you for an informal meeting sponsored by the New York state DEC
regarding the SEQRA process and its proper implementation. In
addition, the staff of DEC will be providing information
regarding the new SEQRA Regulations which come in effect 1/1/96.
The meeting has been scheduled for 6:15 p.m. at the Adirondack
Community College, Dea1·10ve Hall, on Tuesday November 14, 1995.
Admission is $10. Coordination of reservations can be made by
contacting Pam Whiting, by Thursday, November 9th." Sue, did we
determine whether this $10 was an expensible item for this SEQRA
thing from ACC?
MS. CIPPERLY-I'll hav\9 to check.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I probably will be attending, whether it comes
out of my own pocket. It may cost me $10 or it may not. I would
strongly suggest, if you can make that, it may be worth the $10
to attend that particular session. It's the 14th, next Tuesday
at 6:15 p.m. I know I've attended some of t.hese sessions up at
ACC, and they are fairly decent. Okay. I'm going to move into
Execufive Session to discuss items with regard to the Mooring
Post Mar i na.
MPT¡ON TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS ITEMS WITH REGARD
TO THE MOORING POST MARINA AND THE PENDING LAWSUIT, Introduce by
FTe~ Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by David Menter:
¡ ;, ~ t,· .;.1 : " ¡ _ ' \.! _, -.', ' - " '.: : . '
Duly adopted this 8th day of November, 1995, 1:)y the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
MQTION TO COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION, Introduced by Fred
Càrvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by David Menter:
Duly adopted this 8th day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpe'les, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Green,
Mrs. ~apham, Mr. Menter, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Fred Carvin, Chairman
- 31 -