1995-09-20
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I LE
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 20, 1995
INDEX
Area Variance No. 48-1994
Tax Map No. 106-5-12
Kathleen Griffin
Jack Lebowitz
1 .
Sign Variance No. 25-1995
Tax Map No. 102-1-1
Taco Bell
2.
Area Variance No. 55-1995
Tax Map No. 9-1-18
Stephen S. Evanusa
8.
Area Variance No. 51-1995
Tax Map No. 82-4-3
Gordon & Carol Stockman
14.
Use Variance No. 59-1995
Tax Map No. 20-1-8
Michael DiPalma
20.
Area Variance No. 62-1995
Tax Map No. 6-1-6
Norma A.Baertschi
32.
Area Variance No. 63-1995
Tax Map No. 6-3-17
Michael Cantanuccl
35.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
_~~ ~____n,_ -,
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 20, 1995
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
FRED CARVIN, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS THOMAS, SECRETARY
THOMAS FORD
DAVID MENTER
WILLIAM GREEN
ROBERT KARPELES
OLD BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 48-1995 TYPE II KATHLEEN GRIFFIN JACK
LEBOWITZ OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 39 GARRISON ROAD REQUEST FOR
EXTENSION OF APPROVAL FROM SEPTEMBER 28, 1994 APPROVAL BY THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. APPLICANT PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT A PORCH
ADDITION TO AN EXISTING HOUSE, AND SEEKS SEVEN (7) FEET RELIEF
FROM THE TWENTY (20) FOOT SIDE SETBACK REQUIRED BY SECTION 179-
20C. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 9/14/94 TAX MAP NO. 106-5-12
LOT SIZE: 0.34 ACRES SECTION 179-20C
JON LAP PER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. THOMAS-A letter dated August 30, 1995, addressed to Mr. Fred
Carvin, Chairman, Zoning Board of Appeals, "Dear Mr. Carvin: By
this letter, I hereby request that the ZBA grant an extension of
the enclosed Area Variance for an additional one year. Please
place this matter on your agenda for a September ZBA meeting
prior to September 28th, which will be one year from the date of
approval of the variance. Please call me with any questions.
Very truly yours, Jonathan C. Lapper"
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Mr. Lapper, anything that you'd care to add?
MR. LAPPER-No. Only that you may remember this from a year ago.
We had a model that the architect had constructed that showed,
and my partner Jack Lebowitz and his wife Kathleen on Garrison
Road, they have a very small Cape, and what they plan to do, and
now negotiating with contractors to get it started a year later,
was to do an addition of a freestanding garage with a slight
encroachment on the side setback which would be toward the
neighbor's back yard, and the neighbor didn't have a problem with
it, and then, additionally on the other side, just because the
setback had changed, it would only be building an addition in the
rear, would just bring it out as far as where the side setback is
already, and I believe that was unanimously approved. We're just
looking for an extension so that they can get it done.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
applicant?
Does anybody have any questions of the
MR. FORD-After a year's delay, do we have any reason for that or
any reason to believe that the work might be completed within the
next year?
MR. LAPPER-I believe they will, because they just brought me to
review a construction contract and they met with the mortgage
broker in the last two weeks. It's just really, they had a
couple of contractors come in at a price that was way higher than
they expected. So they went to a couple of different
contractors. So it just took a year to get to this point, but
now they're ready to go. It'll be a very nice improvement to
their property.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. You said there was a note to the file?
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MR.'THOMAS-Yes.~
,:.]
STAFF INPUT
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Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 48-1994 Extension, Kathleen
Griffin/Jack Lebowitz, Meeting Date: September 21, 1995
"Applicant: Kathleen Griffin/Jack Lebowitz Proposed Action:
Renewal of AV 48-1995, September 28, 1994, due to unanticipated
delays in finalizing construction plans and contracts. Applicant
also received AV 37-1994 in July, 1994, regarding a garage
setback associated with the same construction project. The
applicant would appreciate renewal of both variances, if the
Board would consider combining them under one resolution.
Associated information is attached to this note." And it's just
a file.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions, gentlemen?
open up the public hearing.
Okay. I'll
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. THOMAS-One note from Merritt Scoville, 51 Garrison Road,
Queensbury, New York, and it's Just written on the notice of
public hearing, "No objection."
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Any final questions, gentlemen? I just have one.
There is no change at all to the plans whatsoever?
MR. LAPPER-No.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Motion's in order.
MOTION TO EXTEND AREA VARIANCE NO. 37-1994 AND AREA VARIANCE NO.
48-1994 KATHLEEN GRIFFIN & JACK LEBOWITZ, Introduced by Chris
Thomas who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
For a period of one year, until September 28, 1996, at the
applicant's request. There has been no public objection to this
proposed action, and there's no change to the plan.
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 25-1995 TYPE: UNLISTED PC-1A TACO BELL
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 740 GLEN STREET AS A CONDITION OF USE
VARIANCE NO. 12-1994, SUBJECT PROPERTY IS PART OF THE GLEN SQUARE
BUSINESS COMPLEX, AND IS THEREFORE ENTITLED TO ONE (1) WALL SIGN
OF UP TO ONE HUNDRED (100) SQUARE FEET, PER SECTION 140-6. IN
ADDITION, APPLICANT PROPOSES TO INSTALL ONE (1) FREESTANDING
FIFTY-TWO (52) SQUARE FOOT SIGN, SO RELIEF IS SOUGHT FROM THIS
SECTION. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 6/14/95 TAX MAP NO. 102-1-1
LOT SIZE: 0.48 ACRES SECTION: 140-6
JONATHAN LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. THOMAS-The Variance was tabled. "The Queensbury Zoning Board
of Appeals has reviewed the following request at the below stated
meeting and resolved the following: Meeting Date: June 28, 1995
Variance File No. 25-1995 for a Sign Variance was Tabled "MOTION
TO * APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE NO. 25-1995. TACO BELL CORPORATION,
Introduced by David Menter who moved for its adoption. seconded
by William Green:
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"'-
* (This vote came out to a three three, a no action; a denial, so
the following motion was made to table, regarding Taco Bell)
MOTION TO TABLE SIGN VARIANCE NO. 25-1995. TACO BELL CORPORATION,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Robert Karpeles:
I would moved that we table thi~ for a maximum of 60 days,
allowing the Board an opportunity to perhaps address the issue on
a more fuller basis, and also to allow the applicant an
opportunity to explore other feasible alternatives, and to get a
legal opi nion from the Town ·Attor ney as to the uniqueness of this
particular situation.
Duly adopted this 28th day of June, 1995, by the following vote:
AYES:
Ca r v i n
Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr.
NOES: Mr. Ford
" .~ .
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
MR. CARVIN-Okay. In the interim, we have not had an additional
member added to the Board. I have received a letter, dated July
19th. I don't think it's in your records, ,regarc;lim9 tl1e,'Taco
Bell Sign Variance. This is from Paul Dusek, if you want to read
that into the record, Chris.
MR. THOMAS-A letter dated July 19, 1995, addressed to Fred Carvin
"Dear Fred: Following up on our discussion, asI had to revise
the opinion I verbally discussed with you and Tom the other day,
I am providing a revised, written opinion concerning questions
raised in connection with the two motions made by the Zoning
BO?Oí:C;lr of Appeal~!,1:in:,.cormecti.on with t;.þe sig,n variance, applicat.ion
of the Taco Bell COTPOlr,Çltion. Accon:;liPlg'to :.i,nfo¡rm,a:t;.ionpresef1ted
to me, it is my understanding that a resolution approving a sign
variance was entertained by the Zoning Board of Appeals. The
vote on the resoluti.on was three to three with one member absent.
Thereafter, the Board adopted a motion tabling the matter for a
maximum of 60 days to allow the Board and the applicant to look
at the issue further. After this, a question arose as to whether
a tabling of the application was proper under the circumstances.
It is my understanding that this question arose as a result of a
concern as to whether the first motion resulted in no action, or
was to be considered a denial of the variance. Although I feel
that the matter has not been completely settled by the courts, it
is my opinion that based on General Construction Law 41 and
relevant court cases, the Board's first motion should
appropriately be considered a no action. In other words, for the
Boai'd to adopt an effective resolutio'n" it must bell, adopted, by a
majority vote ~ Therefore, it ::j¡.s my opinio,nthat the Boa!T'd may
cont'inue to ente:r¡;t~in motions until suchtime as a' m.otiofl to
approve or a¡,motíon;to disapprove ris adopted by, ,major ity vote of
the Board without majority vote of approval; hpwever, a variance
~~ not granted. j~ I l10tethat under the rules, o'f pa.rliamentary
,Prooedur~j it : is possible to recons~der the ,exact ,same
resolution, provided a motion ;:is first ,successfully adopted to
reconsider the matter."
MR. CARVIN-So, essentially, we have just a no action. That was
the opinion that Paul, we've asked for Paul's opinion with regard
to the vote. So, having taken care of our end, I wiL.lentertain
the applicant. Were you able to come to some kind of agreement
or new proposal? Where do we go from here, Jon?
MR. LAPPER~We 11, to stat" t wi th,; a od: "H 1.1 try to,jbe br,ief. Wi th
me, tonight, is Dave Barlow from Clough Harbor, an engineer on
the project. Everything Mr. Thomas said is correct. What was in
the notice is wrong, in that it indicates that we're requesting
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more than we are, because we, during the course of the meeting
last time, before Mr. Menter's resolution, we compromised a
number of times in the hope that we could get a majority to agree
to grant the variance, and reduce to what we thought was the
minimum relief possible. So that we had the 17 square foot sign
which is on the building, the front facade sign now, which is a
tiny sign, in 'our view. and we've reduced the request two ways,
so that it would be no higher than 17 square feet, which is
rela.tively low for a freestanding sign, and that it would only be
33 square feet. So the total of those two signs together would
be 50. Although it is two signs, of course, it's half of what
the Ordinance allows for one sign, and basically hoping that in
light of other sign variance applications that the Board has
reviewed in the last few months, some which you've granted and
some which you~ve denied, that this will appear tö be reasonable
and minimal and necessary, based upon the positioning of this
building 75 feet back off the street to meet the front setback,
which we were able to accomplish when we knocked down the old
Carvel building. When you're coming up Glen Street from the
south, it's still blocked until you're very close to this,
because of the location of the Troy Savings Bank which is built
at the old setback, very close to the street, and you also don't
see the building until you're very close to it, where it's hard
to get into the left lane to make a turn if you're coming from
the south driving north, and for that reason, it's necessary to
have a small 30 square foot pylon sign out front, that's rounded
off or squared off to 33. Dave had some pictures that he'd like
to show you.
DAVE BARLOW
MR. BARLOW-What'I have, before I bring this up, we had a digital
rendering of what this sign would look like, and basically what
this is, is we went out and photographed the site as it is today,
and using available computer technology, we superimposed an image
of the sign we'd like, to scale, square footage, the height and
location. I'll bring that up.
MR. THOMAS-How high did you say that sign was going to be, Jon?
MR. LAPPER-Seventeen.
MR. THOMAS-Seventeen feet to the top?
MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. CARVIN-Well, we had in the motion here, they have also agreed
to a 15 foot maximum height, on a 33 square foot pylon sign.
MR. LAPPER-Perhaps my memory was off, after three months, the
last thing was 15 feet.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
applicant?
Does anybody have any questions for the
MR. THOMAS-What was the setback from the property line?
MR. LAPPER-Of the sign?
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. BARLOW-I believe it's 25 feet. I can check.
MR. THOMAS-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-The property line is pretty far back from the street.
MR. THOMAS-Yes. So what you're asking for is a 34 square foot
sign, 25 feet back from the property line, 15 feet high? That's
exactly what you asked for last time.
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MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. THOMAS-So you're coming back and asking for the same thing.
MR. LAPPER-We're coming back asking for the same thing because
after doing that rendering, we think that is a pretty small sign
to see from the street, and the minimum, and we wouldn't do a
pylon sign less than 33 square feet, and we're hoping that, in
light of some other applications, 50 square feet total will now
look reasonable to you. That rendering also shows the Grand
Opening sign which was on the building at the time, which is a
cloth sign which is hanging, which makes the 17 square foot sign
appear larger, but it's really, it's not. It's very tiny.
MR. CARVIN-How long have you been open now, approximately?
MR. BARLOW-We opened toward the end of June.
MR. CARVIN-Has the fact that you haven't had a sign contributed
significantly to the lack of business?
MR. BARLOW-I really don't know what the sales figures are in this
store.
MR. LAPPER-We do keep hearing from Taco Bell Corporate that this
is an important issue to them.
MR. GREEN-Do you have any idea how tall the Savings Bank sign is?
MR. BARLOW-It's in the vicinity of 15 feet. Just as a reference,
for height perspective on that, the Taco Bell building is around
17 and a half feet up to the top of the parapet.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I'll open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Gentlemen, has anybody's position changed
significantly? Are you, now that we ha~e a visual presentation,
is anyone, more or less comfortable, or less comfortable with
this, or are we at the same spot we were two months ago?
MR. GREEN-I didn't have a problem with it before, and I still
don't. I don't have a problem with it at all.
MR. MENTER-My position would be the same.
MR. KARPELES-My position is the same.
MR. FORD-I haven't changed my mind. I see no reason to.
MR. THOMAS-My position is the same, in fact, it's reinforced with
the new photograph that's been presented tonight. I think it's
less obtrusive than I thought it would be, and I do believe that
the Taco Bell does need that sign there for the northbound
traffic on Route 9, in order to see the business before they get
to it, because of how far the Bank building sits toward the road.
If that Bank building ever gets torn down for some reason, and a
new building goes in its place, I imagine it'll have to meet the
new setbacks. There again, the new, you know, the Taco Bell
would be visible, but at this point in time, with the Bank the
way that it is, I believe that they need that sign in order to
know that there's a Taco Bell there.
MR. MENTER-I would add to that that, to me, a deciding issue was
the uniqueness of this particular plaza unit, essentially having
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its own entrance, independent of the main
effect, which separates it fYom many other
have restaurants which we mayor may not
looking for some type of relief.
plaza entrance, in
plaza projects that
see down the road,
MR. CARVIN-Who's next to the Bank? Is that, Blockbuster.
next to Blockbuster?
Who's
MR. LAPPER-The liquor store, a beer store.
MR. CARVIN-They don't have a freestanding sign, do they?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. I think they do, that discount beverage place
that sits back.
MR. CARVIN-I'm trying to think if there's anyone on that corridor
that does not have a freestanding sign, but they're all separate
parcels, aren't they?
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-And this one was, but you guys.
MR. THOMAS-Yes. Everyone of those businesses has a freestanding
sign, on that side of the road. There's the plaza across the
street, there, but there's no freestanding signs over there.
MR. LAPPER-This would be considerably smaller, the 33 square
feet, than anybody else.
MR. THOMAS-And the Blockbuster sign, that's quite large, and the
building does sit close, to the road for that Blockbuster, whereas
this building sits back, and it's a much smaller sign.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Is there any anticipated changes
see that we've got a, what is that, a Glen Square? Is
the mall area is? All right. Is there going
contemplated additions to that sign, do you know?
of the, I
that what
to be any
MR. BARLOW-As far as Taco Bell, or as far as something else?
MR. CARVIN-In other words, I think the Ordinance, now, you can
have the shops listed on a freestanding sign for the shopping
plazas.
MR. LAPPER-The only thing that would change is if the make up of
the stores inside changed, in the back plaza. All three of the
out parcels which have now been merged. well, I guess that's not
true, but they're all owned by John Nigro. They were all
separate, they were built as separate buildings with fTeestanding
signs for that reason, ,and permitted to have freestanding signs,
because they were separate parcels, and they still do have a
separate entrance. They don't want to be on the Glen Square
sign, because it would confuse people. The sign identifies where
the business is, and that's how Taco Bell feels. So nothing
would' be added' tò' the"'GlenSqua,rè s'ign unless the make UP of the
stores inside the plaza changed.
MR. FORD-But that is an avenue to pursue, if this were denied, by
Taco Bell. In other words, they could have a sign there.
MR. LAPPER-Yes, but we think that the issue here is seeing it
when you're coming north, in advance, so you can move over to the
left to make the turn in, and this is past it.
MR. MENTER-But I do think that is a good question, Fred, because
even though it would confuse people, I don't know that that's
necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if your name's everywhere and
)lOU. 're confusi ng people; so what? You're name's everywhere. I
mean~ I think it does make sense to perhaps even make that part
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of it, that they don't also utilize that Glen Square sign with
their name, which they would be entitled to do. Wouldn't they?
MR. GREEN-I think in the last motion they said they weren't going
to put one on there, I thought.
MR. LAPPER-We were asked not to, and we have no desire to. Just
those two signs would do it.
MR. GREEN-Yes, has agreed not to use the Glen Square Plaza sign
for any additional signage.
MR. MENTER-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-Well,
MR. MENTER-Yes.
Dave, do you want to reintroduce your motion?
MR. THOMAS-Is that going to change, because this one here says
33?
MR. CARVIN-Well, no, it still is 33. They :haven't changed it,
all the numbers, as far as I can tell, 25 feet, 15 feet high, and
33 square foot, right?
MR. LAPPER-It's really a little smaller than 33, but the way the
Queensbury Planning Department squares it off, it comes to 33.
MR. GREEN-Do you have to have another motion to re-open this
motion? Isn't that what Paul said in his letter?
MR. CARVIN-No. We haven't denied the motion, is what I'm saying.
We're still in the motion category, as far as, ~ concerned,
would be my interpretation of that. I think that's if we had
turned down, if there was an actual denial, that we were hearing
essentially the same application, but as far as I'm concerned,
we're still hearing the same motion. We've reached a no
decision. So, I mean, we could probably make motions until the
cows came home. My vote will probably be changed, and I'll give
you my reasons, that I guess, looking at the picture, and knowing
that this was a freestanding or separate parcel, and that they
combined it with the shopping plaza, and due to the fact that it
really isn't out of character to have a sign there, considering
that everybody else down the strip that close to the road does
have a sign. I guess it would be a minimum relief situation.
That doesn't mean that I've all of a sudden become a sign lover.
MR. FORD-I just want to indicate that I,'ve driven up and down
there many times, and the points made tonight, there are some new
ones, and seeing the picture, I guess a sense of fair play on my
part would indicate that it would be appropriate for me to change
my vote, vote for approval.
MR. CARVIN-All right.
MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE NO.
CORPORATION, Introduced by David Menter
adoption, seconded by William Green:
25-1995. TACO BELL
who moved for its
The proposal is to install a 33 square foot sign, freestanding
sign. As a condition of the Use Variance No. 12-1994, subject
property is part of the Glen Square business complex and is,
therefore, entitled to one wall sign of up to 100 square feet per
Section 140-6. Applicant wishes to install one freestanding 33
square foot sign, in addition to this wall sign, and therefore
seeks relief from this Section. The applicant stands to benefit,
due to increased visibility, particularly from the south. The
visibility is limited due to the fact that the building is set
back further from the road than the buildings immediately to the
south of it, possibly creating a hazardous situation for those
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turning left into the lot. There do not appear to be any adverse
effects on the community or the neighborhood because the size of
the sign is, the size of the proposed, is minimal, at 33 square
feet. It fits in with the neighborhood, and it would certainly
not change the character of the neighborhood at all. There do
not appear to be any feasible alternatives, as the building is
set so far back that any wall signage would not achieve the
desired results. The difficulty also døes not appear to be self-
created, as this building was merged with the Glen Square Plaza
as a matter of traffic flow, convenience and was unrelated to
signage. The fact that Taco Bell is designed with its own
entrance and egress on Route 9 makes it uni~ue, as a Plaza
restaurant. Taco Bell has also agreed to limit their wall
signage to the current 16.9 square foot sign on the front of the
building, has agreed not to utilize the Glen Square Plaza sign
for any additional signage, and will locate their 33 square foot
pylon sign 25 feet back from the property line. They have also
agreed to a 15 foot maximum height on the 33 square foot pylon
sign.
Duly adopted this 28th day of June, 1995, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: Mr. Karpeles
AREA VARIANCE NO. 55-1995 TYPE II WR-1A, CEA STEPHEN S.
EVANUSA OWNER: NANCY & JOE POLONSKI ASSEMBLY POINT APPLICANT
PROPOSES TO REMOVE THE EXISTING 2,000 SQ. FT. HOUSE AND REPLACE
IT WITH A 2,500 SQ. FT. HOUSE, AND PROPOSES A SHORELINE SETBACK
OF 38 FEET WHERE 75 IS REQUIRED, SO RELIEF IS SOUGHT FROM SECTION
179-60. SECTION 179-16C REQUIRES A SIDE SETBACK MINIMUM OF 20,
AND A TOTAL OF 50 FEET. APPLICANT PROPOSES A SETBACK OF 14.5
FEET ON ONE SIDE, AND A TOTAL OF 35.9 FEET. (ADIRONDACK PARK
AGENCY) (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 8/16/95 TAX MAP NO. 9-1-18
LOT SIZE: 0.28 ACRES SECTION 179-16 (6)
STEPHEN EVANUSA, PRESENT
MR. THOMAS-"The Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals has reviewed
the following request at the below stated meeting and has
resolved the following: Meeting Date: August 23, 1995 Variance
No. 55-1995 Area Variance was tabled "MOTION TO TABLE AREA
VARIANCE NO. 55-1995 STEPHEN S. EVANUSA, Introduced by Fred
Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Karpeles:
Tabled for a maximum of 60 days, to allow the applicant an
opportunity to develop and explore other feasible alternatives
which may mitigate lesser relief being required. Also, to
explore and investigate any potential problems with the sewer
system, and also to develop and investigate stormwater runoff
solutions.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of August, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE"
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and I see from some of the new blueprints and
drawings it looks like you've repositioned some of the lines, as
it were.
MR. EVANUSA-We've studied all the items that you asked us to, and
we've changed a couple of things and certain conclusions on
others.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
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MR. EVANUSA-Good eveni ng, gentlemen. The first. thi ng that we did
was we studied the septic field, and I, went into the Building
Department and we were looking at the card file for the current
field. It's about 11 years old, and we've had our contractor
bring out his construction manager on to the site and take a look
at it, and all of this was also in the context of seeing what we
could do to move the house to ameliorate the situation with the
75 foot setback. What we discovered was that the septic field
itself is in excellent condition. It's fairly new, and that the
tank that was the part that was closest to the house could
actually be moved without damaging the existing septic field, and
we went out there with a tape measure and with some stakes and
positioned the house in several positions to see how those
positions effected its relationship to the septic field, and you
have to remember that the greatest problem with this site is that
it is a quarter acre site, and we're trying to what we have
applied to it are these one acre restrictions. So when you
actually get on the site and start pushing the house around with
stakes and strings, you see that everything is tiny, and inch is
really a matter of the whole thing. We took the suggestion of
trying to push the house toward the garage and toward the other
lot line, but as a physical fact, that corner really wasn't
helped much, in terms of distance from the septic field itself.
MR. FORD-How much did it improve?
MR. EVANUSA-It basically·, the best improvement we can get in any
position to this plan was about a foot ;!.;'ò:iand that having been
said, w.e have to juggle the upside and the: downside of moving the
house wi th,that. one ,foo·t restr ictio:n, and basically came up , with
the fact that moving,the house toward the' other lot line,
switchi~g the ,14 feet with the 20~foot, as was discussed last
time, really was no great improvement. It didn't gain any more
than the foot that we could have gaißed in this particular
scheme', and it also, destroyedwha:t is right: now ·the perenn!ial, bed
on that side of the house, and also, the~Qne thing that I also
added on to this plan is the exact tree locations. So that you
will see that if we did move the house and ripped up the
perennial beds and tried to put them on the other side of the
house, they would be in the tree roots, because there is an
enormous stand of trees on that side. So that 20 foot setback on
that one side of the house really has a certain importance to the
owner, and given:the fact that we could move the septic field and
gain the foot, this was' pretty much the best solutiQn . th,st we
could come up with. However, that having been said, not being
able to move the house more than physically from the last
application, we took the approach of what else could we do to the
house to make it better in the setback situation. So we did two
things. We reduced the size of the front deck, and we reduced
the height of the house. Now, if you'll recall, the original
design of the house had a peak skylight, and after doing some
architectural studies and actually studying what the meaning of
that skylight was to the design of the house, actually, the house
is designed around the skylight. Just to do a quick aside, in
terms of why this house is designed the way it is. The house is
in the alley of trees. It's a very tight site. It gets very
little sun, and because of the brightness of the lake and the
fact that there's no sun to the back of the house, the central
skylight design was evolved so that you could have natural
sunlight throughout the whole house, throughout the whole day,
and different times of the year. So, I had to study different
ways to make that skylight work, without having it have the
height that it had before, and basically, by removing it and
doing a flat skylight, there's a couple of different ways we
would do that, we'd still achieve the same architectural
integrity of the light without having to have that extra height.
So we reduced the height of the house six feet from the last
time.
MR. MENTER-Saves him some money, too.
- 9 -
MR. EVANUSA-Well, you've still got to put a skylight there.
There's another issue that wasn't even brought up before, in
that, in the front yard of the house, there's a miscellaneous
bunch of structures, and if it would help the whole situation
any, Mr. Polonski's willing to remove all the structures that are
in this corner of the yard. It's rather large stone structure.
It's a fireplace, and I think it's actually a barbecue, but I
think it's about, I think it's eight foot high, and the (lost
words) structure, so that would be removed.
MR. FORD-I
the other
P1'oposi ng
removed?
noticed two proposals, one to remove the fireplace and
to remove the chimney of the fireplace. Are you
at this time that the entire structure would be
MR. EVANUSA-Yes, sir. The chimney and the fireplace should be
viewed as synonymous. Also, just as a clarification, there were
two items that were not shown on the original plan, to show you
that the existing house, given the definitions of what the house
is, that's actually from being in the meeting the last time, when
there was a discussion as to whether a set of stairs or a
retaining wall would be considered part of the house. It came to
light that these structures, which are steps, would probably also
be considered as part of the house. So, I wanted to show you
that there are other encumbrances to the lake side, that we're
removing in order to construct the new construction. The final
thing that you asked us to look at was the stormwater runoff, and
my answer at the time was that we would do it per Code, and I did
an analysis of how much rain water might be coming off the roof.
We've got about 2,000 square feet of roof, and in our area, what
I could come up with was the worst case scenario for rain fall
was about seven inches in five minutes for a major storm, and
given those calculations, I think that by having a standard sized
gutters all the way around the house and four drain leaders and
pipes, the ranges in diameter, taking it to two separate drywells
should suffice for it, for stormwater runoff, and that's what
I've shown.
MR. KARPELES-Could you go over, again, why you can't move it
back?
MR. EVANUSA-As we were walking around the site, pushing the house
around, it did not appear that, if you were to draw up a diagonal
line across the front here, between that point of the septic
field and the point in front of the tank, and moved this house
back and forth along that diagonal line, it would not improve the
distance, and between that and the fact that it was destroying
this flower bed, and also encumbering on this garage structure,
we call it a garage but you can't even get a car in there,
basically.
MR. KARPELES-You're
given, right, that
you're saying?
saying that that 10 foot
you have to maintain that?
dimension
Is that
is a
what
MR. EVANUSA-That's the Code dimension.
MR. KARPELES-From what, what is that from?
MR. EVANUSA-There's
We're moving the one
septic field remains.
another tank
tank. The
there. There's two tanks.
second one remains, and the
MR. KARPELES-That's a buried tank?
MR. EVANUSA-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-You have a scale on there that shows one inch equals
one foot. Is that right?
- 10 -
---
---
MR. KARPELES-It's more like one inch equals ten feet.
MR. MENTER-That's not right either, though.
MR. KARPELES-Yes. That's less than an inch.
MR. MENTER-It sure is. One inch equals, it looks like 16 feet.
MR. EVANUSA-It's one inch equals 16 feet, sir.
MR. MENTER-Yes.
by three feet.
Am I right in, you reduced the size of the deck
Is that accurate?
MR. CARVIN-Two feet. It was a ten foot. They're going down to
eight.
MR. MENTER-So the setback went from 38 to 40.
MR. CARVIN-But the actual house is still going to be 48 feet
back, right?
MR. EVANUSA-Forty-nine feet, sir.
MR. CARVIN-Forty-nine.
MR. KARPELES-Somewhere I'm reading this wrong.
shows a proposed deck 36 by 10 feet, right?
The old pr i nt
MR. EVANUSA-Ten feet, yes.
MR. KARPELES-And where does it show the new deck, dimensions?
MR. EVANUSA-I have that on this plan.
MR. KARPELES-So you went two feet, from ten to eight.
reading it wrong.
I was
MR. EVANUSA-I drew all the numbers up there, but I also wanted to
show you the dimensions from these steps. We are actually
improving it, from 35 feet between the front of the steps.
MR. FORD-The existing steps, they're coming out?
MR. EVANUSA-Yes, sir.
MR. FORD-So the closest point would not be steps, but actually
the front of the déck?
MR. EVANUSA-Yes, sir.
MR. FORD-Which has been reduced from ten to eight. Are there
going to be steps on the front of the house, at ground level?
MR. EVANUSA-No, sir.
MR. CARVIN-But there are existing steps, is that correct?
MR. EVANUSA-Yes, sir. We'd have to have maybe a step or so to
the side of the house, to get from the front deck to the grade.
The grade's pretty close.
MR. FORD-So there will be no entrance directly on the front of
the house?
MR. EVANUSA-Not to the front, no. That's basically a viewing
deck for the living room in that area
MR. FORD-Those aren't sliding glass doors, then?
MR. EVANUSA-Actually, they haven't been designed yet.
We ' r e
- 11 -
r'
hav i ng that discussion right now. I'm havi·ng a conversation with
Mrs. Polanski about what kind of doors they'll be, because she
doesn't like sliding glass doors.
MR. FORD-But there will be doors?
MR. EVANUSA-Possibly, possibly doors. This is my architectural
problem. The v iew is to the side, and my solÜtiòn ,:: to that is
always sliding glass doors off of the most glass area, and a lot
of people these days don't 1 ike sl idi ng glass doors. They li ke
French Doors, and of course some nice French Doors restrict the
view, and the last several projects I've had, I've always gone to
plate glass, and putting the door some place else. As it is
right now, this may be all plate glass, and there may be a
sliding door of some sort to the side, with a step coming off to
the side of the house, and maybe a door, some sort of doorway on
either end to get to the deck itself, but right now that's a
conversation we're having, exactly how that deck is going to be
used, and from where it's going to be accessed.
MR. FORD-So, conceivably, steps could be built that would access
that from the outside?
MR. EVANUSA-They would not be to the front.
MR. FORD-They would be built across, in front of one of the
windows, blocking the view?
MR. EVANUSA-Probably, there would be two ways of handling that.
The steps would either start at this point and step down to the
line of the house, or project down the line of the house. Would
steps be allowed to protrude on the side yard lines? If that's a
problem, then I would construct the stairs so they start in and
wind up flush with the side of the house, but they would not be
going toward the front side of the house.
MR. MENTER-I think, as an accessory.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I think, in the past, that we've taken them into
consideration, as far as closeness, I mean, this is like a deck.
If it's attached to the house, it becomes a part of the
structure.
MR. EVANUSA-Okay. So I would say that if I had steps, what I
would do is I would start them at this point and step down to the
side, in this direction, and to the side in this direction, like
that. So that they actually lined up with the side of the house,
but no further, and not to the front.
MR. CARVIN-All right. The height of the house, is it going to
stay at the same height?
MR. EVANUSA-It's a couple of feet higher than the existing feet
of the house. It's like 25. It's going to be probably 26 or 27,
and that's actually this point right here, and these points right
there. So it's not much of the house that's going to be at that
height. It slopes down very quickly. It's steeper than 12 on 12
at this point. So the actual, the highest point of the house is
not only set back from the lake, except for this point here, but
it slopes down very quickly from there. I couldn't get any lower
than that, because in order to make the greatest usability of the
rooms inside, and not have everything a dormer, I had to get the
roof up pretty fast, but like I said, I got it down six feet from
the last presentation.
MR. FORD-The ground level deck is, in your design at this point,
to be made of what material?
MR. EVANUSA~Wood, treated wooded.
- 12 -
--
MR. CARVIN-Any other questions, gentlemen?
public hearing.
I'll open up the
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-All right,
thoughts?
gentlemen, any comments,
questions,
MR. THOMAS-I think the architect has made a remarkable effort to
comply to our wishes, from the last meeting, by rearranging the
house, taking six feet off of the top of it, and about the only
thing he didn't do for us was bend over backwards. So, I don't
have a problem with this variance whatsoever. I think he did an
excellent job, made an excellent presentation, and I think it'll
improve the area, and also that, because of the limitations of
the size of the lot, that the building will look good on that
lot. The only thing that I'm a little leery of is all the glass
in the front, reflecting, but you have that from every other
place, too, that's along the lake. So, I have no problem with
it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Bill.
MR. GREEN-I was pretty content with it, prior, other than the few
things that were brought up, the extra septic tank and the
runoff. I think those have been addressed very well, and taking
the peak off the top, I don't have a major concern with it.
MR. CARVIN-Tom?
MR. FORD-I agree with everything that Chris and Bill have said.
I like the effort. We had some real concerns, the first time
around, and you took each of them individually, addressed them,
and where it was reasonable, you've made some adjustments. I
also like the fact that you have picked up on some of the other
existing structures, such as the miscellaneous stone piers and
the barbecue fireplace, and they will be removed, and my
assumption is that that is going to improve the permeability on
the lot, and I applaud the efforts.
MR. CARVIN-Bob?
MR. KARPELES-I think he's done a good job of shoe horning in a
decent sized house on a very small lot, and I think it's going to
100 k nice.
MR. CARVIN-Dave?
MR. MENTER-I'm going to miss the peak. I was kind of looking
forward to seeing that, but I agree. I think you've certainly
convinced me that it's the least relief that is needed for this
project.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I only have a couple of concerns. I don't have
an overall concern with the project. I think the project has
been well thought out. I think it's a minimum expansion, and I
don't think it's anything that the lot couldn't support in an
adequate fashion. I'd like to try to really nail down some of
the specifics, as far as the height. Just a quick glance at our
conversation from the last meeting, and from what you're saying
tonight, I get a little bit tender when we get, about and
possibly and, you know, maybe this high, because that eventually
leads to conflict later on when it turns out that it's actually
35 feet high and not 28 feet high. So I'd like to try to nail
down some of the specifics. Now, as I understand the proposed
project, it will not exceed 2500 square feet. Is that correct?
· - 13 -
MR. EVANUSA-Yes~' ,sir.
t-1R. C:ARVIN~Okay" and thê' Öurrent" ,;struc'ti.ureqi.is 2 ~OOOsquare feet?
These arê accura,te numbers? Okay. If you can give me a height
that you can live with.
MR. EVANUSA-I would like to make it 28 feet, which would be three
feet higher than it is right now. It's now 25.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Does ,anybody have a problem with 28 feet as a
height?
MR. FORD-What would that do to I.<Jhat y,ou have presented?
MR. EVANUSA-That's what's shown.
MR. FORD-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-We don't have to do any SEQRA on this, do we?
doesn't appear to be. It's a Type II. Okay. If there
other questions, I would ask for a motion.
There
are no
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 55-1995 STEPHEN S. EVANUSA,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
l--Ji lliam Green:
The applicant is proposing to remove an existing 2,000 square
foot house and replace it with a 2,500 square foot house, and in
order for the applicant to proceed, he needs relief from Section
179-60, which requires a shoreline setback of 75 feet, and
Section 179-16C, which requires side setbacks totaling 50 feet,
with a minimum of 20 on one side. I would grant 35 feet of
relief from Section 179-60, and I would grant 16 feet of relief
from the total of 50 feet. The benefit to the applicant by the
granting of this Area Variance would be that the applicant would
be able to replace an antiquated house that is in need of
replacement, and the proposed expansion is within keeping with
both the lot size and the nature of the neighborhood. While the
proposed setback relief of 35 feet may seem high, the actual
house will actually be moved back an additional foot from the
current foundation, and that the added eight feet is the result
of a first floor deck protrusion. As far as the side yard
setbacks are concerned, the house currently is conforming to the
20 feet minimum on the one side, but because of the unique size
and shape of the lot, in order for the applicant to move forward,
he would need relief of at least 16 feet from the total sum of
50. The applicant has shown and demonstrated that there are
really no other feasible alternatives. Again, because of the
siting of the septic and the placement of a garage, that this
actually is the minimum relief necessary to allow the applicant
to proceed with their project, and even though this may be a self
created situation because the decision to replace versus renovate
could be considered self created, it is felt that this particular
project will have no detriment or adverse effect, and would be in
keeping with the surrounding neighborhood and community. There
has been absolutely no public opposition to this project as
proposed. The height of the new building shall not exceed 28
feet. The applicant also has indicated that they will address
any stormwater runoff issues.
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Green,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
AREA VARIANCE NO. 51-1995
STOCKMAN OWNER: SAME AS
TYPE
ABOVE
II SFR-1A
98 AVIATION
GORDON & CAROL
ROAD APPLICANT
,- 14 -
~
PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT A TWO-CAR GARAGE DETACHED GARAGE AT A SIDE
SETBACK OF FIVE FEET AND SEEKS RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-20, SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ZONE, WHICH REQUIRES A SIDE SETBACK OF 20
FEET. TAX MAP NO. 82-4-3 LOT SIZE: 0.421 ACRES SECTION 179-
20
GORDON STOCKMAN, PRESENT
MR. THOMAS-"The Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals has reviewed
the following request at the below stated meeting and has
resolved the following: Meeting Date: August 16, 1995 Variance
File No. 51-1995 Area Variance "MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE
NO. 51-1995 GORDON & CAROL STOCKMAN, Introduced by Fred Carvin
who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
To allow the applicants an opportunity to explore other possible
sitings of the garage which would be more in conformance with the
Town Ordinance or require a lesser relief than is being sought.
Duly adopted this 16th day of August, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpeles. Hr; Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr~ Gre.n~ Mr. Menter,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE"
MR. CARVIN-Okay. It looks like we have a new project or a
proposal here, if you would care to comment.
new
MR. STOCKMAN-What I've done is, in light of the drive in
and the buildings and such to the property, I've (lost word)
on your new copy, and I've also moved the garage, from the
foot setback on the previous to a ten foot setback, and I've
shown the driveway.
here
that
five
also
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So it looks like you went from a five foot side
yard setback to a ten feet, is that correct?
MR. STOCKMAN-That is correct.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any questions, gentlemen?
MR. THOMAS-The only thing that bothers me is, how is there three
storage sheds on one lot? How long have those storage sheds been
there?
MR. STOCKMAN-Well, the one our back south is just a metal shed,
probably a year, the back two probably a year. The one storage
shed has probably been 50 years or better.
MR. THOMAS-But the two in the back are fairly recent?
MR. STOCKMAN-Fairly recent, within the last two years. (Lost
words) we're not tearing it down, but in the future, it would be
possibly a (lost word) area, at that point.
MR. FORD-That's the 50 year old structure?
MR. STOCKMAN-Correct.
MR. CARVIN-Is that the one that's marked existing structure? Is
that the 50 year old?
MR. STOCKMAN-That is a house. The property next door is owned by
my father's mother.
MR. FORD-The plan would be to have the existing storage sheds on
the back of the property'continue to be there?
:"l! ;
- 15 -
MR. STOCKMAN-Correct.
MR. GREEN-How about the big one?
MR. STOCKMAN-In the future, we're planning on taking the stuff
out of that and sticking it in the garage.
MR. GREEN-And then that would be dismantled? Yes.
MR. STOCKMAN-Probably in the next two years. The problem I have
with the going so far to the side is because of the trees, and
the (lost word) of the trees with my parents, and going back
farther and turning to the side, which was proposed earlier also,
is the style of the roof, which my mother likes, would totally
ruin the effect to having it drawn back and go sideways, and
you'd totally lose the effect of the building, as opposed to
seeing the front as the side, and push it that much farther back
on the property, and also center it up, if you see on the back
area is a children's play area, which is small swings and such,
and visually from the house, which, say in the center of the
deck, which is the kitchen area, if you look out, you can see the
children's area back there, and be ablato have a better visual,
an eye on the grandchildren~ as opposed to having the garage on
the center of the property.
MR. CARVIN-The existing structure, again, what is that currently
used for?
MR. STOCKMAN-Nothing, just minimal
existing house that was lived in by
and it's just never been torn down.
storage. It's just an
my father and his parents,
MR. CARVIN-Okay. It looks like it's starting to get a little bit
long in the tooth. Is that an accurate description of that
building?
MR. STOCKMAN-You mean it's decaying?
MR. CARVIN-Right.
MR. STOCKMAN-It, structurally, is fairly sound, but it is on it's
way out. That also has some storage.
MR. CARVIN-I'll tell you we've got basically six buildings on one
lot, and I really don't know if that's in keeping. I don't know
if there's anybody else in the neighborhood that's got six
buildings like that.
MR. STOCKt1AN-Li ke I say, the big storage shed is goi ng to be
eliminated, soon after the garage is built.
MR. CARVIN-Well, you said several years.
MR. STOCKMAN-Well, I don't have a specific time frame. When the
garage is built, stuff gets moved, it will be, there isn't much
to it. It doesn't have any foundation under it or flooring or
anything like that. So it~s a secure building, but it's not
(lost word).
MR. CARVIN-And there's no plans to take down that old existing,
the old house either?
MR. STOCKMAN-Well, at this point, it hasn't been considered yet.
I'm sure in the future there'll be a, it probably will come to
that.
CAROL STOCKMAN
MRS. STOCKMAN-It's of no use.
It's just storage~
There's no services in there.
- 16 -
"-,..
--
MR. STOCKMAN-It doesn't hurt anything. Why get rid of it?
MR. CARVIN-Is anybody else bothered by that?
MR. KARPELES-Yes. I'd look more favorably on this if you would
commit yourself to removing tha~ storage shed and that existing
structure within a definite period of time.
MRS. STOCKMAN-The 30 foot storage shed?
MR. KARPELES-The 30 foot storage shed and the other existing
structure.
MR. STOCKMAN-Shortly after construction of the new garage, I can
guarantee that that will, be down.
MR. CARVIN-These other two storage sheds in the back, are they
permanent in nature? You say they're just those metal sheds,
right?
MR. STOCKMAN-The eight by ten is a metal shed, which is not
permanent, and the eight by twelve is a wooden shed, which is not
permanent. It's on blocks. It could be moved.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, because Mr. Ford has made a comment. If you've
got a four and half, I think it's five feet, I think that one has
to be at least five feet off the property line, if memory serves
correct.
MR. FORD-That's the eight by twelve.
MR. STOCKMAN-That could be moved if there was a problem.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. STOCKMAN-This is kind of a thick area back here. So I was,
it's kind of a rough spot of shrubbery.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any plans to blacktop, at this point, or is it
just going to be dirt and crushed stone?
MR. STOCKMAN-You see the shaded in area, not at this point,
because of the finances, but as you can see, coming down, there
is a driveway, and (lost words) sidewalk, in the future.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions of the applicant? I'd like
to open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Any other questions, guys?
MR. KARPELES-Well, I'd be willing to grant the variance,
providing that it was stipulated that the storage shed and the
existing structure would both be removed within a definite
mi nimum pe,- iod of time after the gar age is bui It . I thi nk he's
agreed to two months, and with that condition, I think I would be
in favor of it.
MR. CARVIN-When do you anticipate starting construction on the
garage, if granted?
MR. STOCKMAN-Within the next couple of weeks, if everything is
approved.
MR. CARVIN-I don't know, how long does it take you to build a
- 17 -
garage?
MR. STOCKMAN-Roughly, I'm doing it on my own here, so it would
only be part time and on weekends. So, if the winter doesn't
give me a hardship, it should be the end of November, as far as
the frames, and the completion probably in the spring.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Well, with that,
frame? What would you look at,
finish his until the spring?
Bob, what would be your time
if he's really not going to
MR. KARPELES-Well, I would say.
MR. CARVIN-Certainly no longer than a year from now, the whole
thing should be cleaned up.
MR. KARPELES-I would think that that, certainly no longer than
that.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, that's a long time.
MR. KARPELES-But I think that
overall, if you had the garage,
buildings.
it would be
and got rid of
an improvement,
those other two
MR. FORD-You understand what is being recommended? We're talking
about both the existing storage shed and the existing structure
to the east of the house.
MR. STOCKMAN-Well, I agree. That's why this project has been in
mind for so long.
MR. CARVIN-I was just going to ask. It looks like there's a
property line right through the center of that.
MR. MENTER-So you could only take down part of the building.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, is there going to be a conflict
with that, or will there be a challenge?
MR. STOCKMAN-That's not a problem.
MR. CARVIN-That's not a problem, okay.
MR. STOCKMAN-That was our intention to start, originally.
MR. MENTER-Is there any issue as to the number of storage sheds?
MR. CARVIN-Not at this point. To give you a preview of things
coming, there will be. Hopefully.
MR. MENTER-Yes, okay. I think that would be a good solution, and
that would take care of mz concern, which is just cluttering of
the property. I think that would be a benefit to you, too, to
get rid of that stuff and clean up the property, and given that.
I don't really have a problem with the location.
MR. THOMAS-I'm in 100 percent agreement with the other Board
members, and I feel ,that removing the storage shed and the
existing structure would add to the green space of the property
that the new garage would be taking away, plus it would clean up
the property, like tbe others have said. So I have no problem
wit,h it.
MR. FORD-I agree with that, but I do have one question, and that
is, with that roof arrangement, what do you anticipate to be the
maximum height of the garage?
MR. STOCKMAN-I believe 24 foot, 24 foot six.
- 18 -
'~;1
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is that going to be a two story?
MR. STOCKMAN-Well, the above is just basically 90ing to be open.
It would be possible storage.
MRS. STOCKMAN-Consolidate in one spot.
MR. STOCKMAN-You se.e the trees on ei the," side of that storage
shed? If those trees come down, the shed is going to go with it.
MR. FORD-You wouldn't want to lose those trees.
MR. STOCKMAN-That's why we hope to stay away from, to stay back
away from the trees enough, to the side of the property.
MRS. STOCKMAN-The reason I want to keep those, they're all white
birch.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. GREEN-Well, I'm really in the middle here. I think that
getting rid of those other two structures would be a definite
improvement, but I've almost got to stand by my first impressions
when I went out there a month ago, that it's an awful lot of
space, and I think we could do it with 20 feet.
MR. STOCKMAN-Twenty feet actually brings the edge of the garage
into the storage shed about two feet, unless you push the garage
back, but that means a greater distance from the house every time
that you, you use your garage for your car, so every time you
exit, into your yard and out of your yard, it's an extra 20 or 30
feet to get to the house, and if I have to take down any trees
really, the storage shed isn't a problem, it's just getting so
close to the trees, and pushing it farther back.
MRS. STOCKMAN-That keeps my expense down. When you start looking
at a cement driveway.
MR. GREEN-Is this, 26 feet wide, that's going to be, basically a
two car garage?
MR. STOCKMAN-Correct.
MR. GREEN-One double door, or two single doors?
MRS. STOCKMAN-One single.
MR. GREEN-Well, I still think there's an awful lot
there, but I would be willing to go along with the
of the removal of the other two.
of area back
stipulations
MR. STOCKMAN-The reason it looks so cleared out there is over the
course of the last three or four years, I've taken a couple of
trees and such like that to clear the area in preparation for
this project.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
structures, he's
and replacing it
reduction.
If it's any consolation, if he removes the two
going to be losing 1129 square feet of space,
with 780. So I think that's a significant
MR. GREEN-That is the only thing that is allowing me to agree
with this. That's it. That's the only reason I will do it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. FORD-I would want to add one other stipulation. I believe on
that southwest corner, get that additional storage shed in off
that line further.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay. A motion's in order.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 51-1995 GORDON & CAROL
STOCKMAN, Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Thomas Ford:
Applicant is proposing to construct a two-car, 30' x 26' garage
which will be no higher than 24 and a half feet. In order for
the applicant to proceed with his project he needs relief from
Section 179-20, which requi res a side setback of 20 fe·et. I
would grant 10 feet of relief from that Section. The benefit to
the applicant would be that they'd be able to line their garage
up with an existing driveway, and if the applicant were to move
the garage the additional 10 feet, it would be out of alignment
and actually be more of a hinderance and detriment to the overall
back yard, which indicates that there really are no other
feasible alternatives to the siting of this garage, in which some
sort of relief would have to be granted. By the building of this
garage, 10 feet from the property line, there does not appear to
be any effect on the neighborhood or the community, and this
difficulty does not appear to be self creatéd,because of the
placement of the house, the existing driveway and the width of
the current lot. However, I would also stipulate that this
variance is contingent upon the removal of a 19' by 31' existing
structure, as indicated on his plot plan, and an 18' x 30'
storage shed indicated on his plot plan, and that the
construction of the garage and the removal of the two existing
structures be completed and all cleaned up no later than
September 30, 1996. There has been no negative public comment
with regard to this project, and by the applicant's willingness
to remove the two antiquated and deteriorating existing
structures, and replacing it with the new garage, I think it
actually will be a betterment to the area and the community.
Also, the applicant has a small, 8' by 12' foot semi-permanent
storage shed four and a half feet off the property line that
should be brought into compliance at five feet.
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
USE VARIANCE NO. 59-1995 TYPE I LC-42A MICHAEL DIPALMA OWNER:
SAME AS A80VE ACROSS FROM WILLIAMSON'S STORE ROUTE 9L
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO HAVE A FISHING CHARTER SERVICE AS PART OF
AN EXISTING BED AND 8REAKFAST 8USINESS. SINCE FISHING CHARTER IS
NOT AN ALLOWED USE UNDER SECTION 179-13, LAND CONSERVATION, A USE
VARIANCE IS SOUGHT. SECTION 179-7(8) DEFINITIONS, IS ALSO
APPLICA8LE. (ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY) (LAKE GEORGE PARK)
(WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 8/16/95 TAX MAP NO. 20-1-8 LOT SIZE:
0.5 ACRES SECTION 179-13, 179-7(B)
MICHAEL O'CONNOR, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. THOMAS-"The Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals has reviewed
the following request at the below stated meeting and has
resolved the following: Meeting Date: August 31, 1995 File No.
59-1995 Use Variance was tabled
MOTION TO TA8LE USE VARIANCE NO. 59-1995 MICHAEL DIPALMA,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Tabled pending a motion and further review by additional Board
members. Tabled for 60 days.
Duly adopted this 31st day of August, 1995, by the following
vote:
- 20 -
-
'--
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
,NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Menter, Mr. Ford"
MR. CARVIN-Before we begin here, I want to make sure that the
absent members, which I believe was Mr. Ford and Mr. Menter. have
had an opportunity to read the minutes and feel comfortable
commenting and voting on this particular motion, this issue.
MR. MENTER-Yes.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-All
the applicant
questions of the
public hearing.
right. Having said that. is there
cares to add to the application?
applicant by the Board? Okay. I
anything that
Okay. Any
will open the
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, we held the public
hearing at the last meeting, and at that time, you advised that
the public hearing was closed. That there would be no
presentation of any material at this time. That it was simply,
the Board would vote on the application at this time.
MR. CARVIN-Well, according to the minutes, as I understand it,
that I still have the prerogative to open up the public hearing,
and that our tabling motion was basically for further review by
additional Board members.
MR. O'CONNOR-We had specific discussion on that issue, because I
had a question as to whether I should bring additional.
MR. CARVIN-"I can always re-open it. By closing it we don't have
to re-advertise it. Is that correct. Mr. O'Connor - If I recall
right, Mr. Ford didn't think we needed a variance to go forward.
Ms. Cipperly - Either way, we don't have to re-advertise it. We
can provide the minutes to the members who weren't here. Yes.
We actually have 30 days to make a motion anyway, right after. I
waive the time limitations, says Mr. O'Connor. I think that I'm
the one that has the (words lost) on that. Well, no can make a
motion. Mr. O'Connor - I stipulate that I waive, so that you
don't have, a problem., Mr. Carvin - I think I'd likè to ,table
thi.s until we get a f.uller, Board for a motion. ,And then the
motion that was Made to table, pending amotion and further
review by additional Board members", and I think th.at there, has
been additional comments, from the þublic that have come in, ðnd I
think i~ would, behoove the Board to hear those comments:and open
up the pUblic hearing before we move on this motion. Okay~
JOHN CAFFREY
MR. CAFFREY-I'm the attorney for
essentially, the next door neighbor's
re-opening the hearing. I won't take
going to talk about the legal status
that ancient history.
the Bleibtrey's who are,
here, and I appreciate you
much of your time. I'm not
of the right-of-way and all
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say. I'd
germane to the Use Variance only, as
original hearing a month ago.
like to try to keep it
wasstiþulatedi:! in the
MR. CAFFREY-I'd really like to just take a look at the criteria
under the New York State Town Law for the approval of a Use
Variance. They must show unnecessary hardship, and they must
show that with financial proof, and so far as I know, there isn't
any financial proof in the record of a hardship, and they must
- 21 -
show it for each and every use allowed in that zone under the
Town Zoning Ordinance before they can prove that they're entitled
to a Use Variance, and they haven't even tried to do that. All
they did is the came in and they talked about, they're not making
money in this B & B. Well, there's no proof it won't earn a
reasonable return if they sell it as a single family residence,
if it's used for any of the other uses allowed under the
Ordinance, and in the Land Conservation zone, which is probably
at least 20 different uses. Now some of them probably aren't
real practical, but they haven't met their burden of proof. We
also believe this is a self-created hardship. He came in here.
He applied for site plan review from the Planning Board over a
year ago for a Bed & Breakfast, and he stipulated, Mr. O'Connor
said on the record, at that time, that they're not asking the
Board to condone the operation of a charter business from the
dock. They stipulate to that effect. It was only for a B & B.
Now they're saying they have a hardship. I'd also like to point
out that this is not a unique situation. The ruling made by this
Board before that the fishing charter couldn't operate from the B
& B business would apply to any B & B located anywhere in the
Land Conservation zone. Mr. O'Connor said in the minutes of the
last meeting, well, it's not on a highway anymore. It's on Route
9L, in the Land Conservation zone, that's about as big a highway
as you can get. It's a State highway. It's not buried off on
some back road somewhere, and there's nothing that says a 8 & B
has to have a fishing charter business to make a profit, and what
if he came in here and he said he wasn't making any profit on his
B & B so he wanted to open a bar? It just does not meet the test
for a Use Variance. If, by chance, the Board does approve this
variance, we would like to make sure that there are conditions
attached, that the hours be limited to, say, nine to five, that
there only be one boat, and as the County says, it should be
limited only to the overnight B & B guests. We still don't think
it meets the test, even with these conditions, we don't think
it's approvable, but if the Board is going to approve it, we want
to make sure that all these conditions that were bandied about at
the last meeting don't slip through the cracks, and that they do
get attached. In summary, the thing just does not qualify, under
the Town Law standards, and under decades of case law before they
were put into the Town Law for the Use Variance, and we don't
think it should be approved. Thank you.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Anyone else wishing to be heard in opposition?
Any additional correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. We have three letters. A letter dated September
18, 1995 "Dear Members of the Town Zoning Board of Appeals: Mr.
DiPalma is now claiming that without a fishing charter business,
it's a hardship on his Bed and Breakfast business. In the past,
he has stated that his Bed and Breakfast has only one room to
rent and someone can sleep on the. couch in the living room. When
asked about whether or not he serves breakfast, Mr. DiPalma said
the people staying there could go in the kitchen and make their
own coffee. It appears that Mr. DiPalma's alleged hardship is
definitely self-imposed and that the Bed and Breakfast was just
an excuse to obtain approval from the Town for his fishing
business. I have said that the noise from Mr. DiPalma's fishing
business disturbs me greatly. Mr. O'Connor has said that I only
thought I could hear voices at my house across the road. I would
like you people to know that I did not 'think' I have heard Mr.
DiPalma u.sing the 'F' word clearly. I know I heard him. I
sincerely hope that you deny this use variance and protect the
residential characteristics of this neighborhood. Very tru.ly
yours, Grace Hanneford" A letter dated September 19, 1995, "To
the Members of the Zoning Board of Appeals: I realize Mr. Carvin
closed the public hearing on this variance. However, I was so
shocked by your apparent 360 degree reversal of position on this
situation that I was at a loss for words. Since you did allow
Mr. O'Connor to make a few more comments, I hope you will allow
me the same courtesy. Even though a bed & breakfast is an
- 22 -
........
allowed use in this residential area, it does not have to be
allowed if other factors do not measure up. Mr. DiPalma does not
have a parking area - only a small driveway. He is on a state
highway on a blind curve and a junction of another road. Mr.
DiPalma's own words regarding the sleeping area in his bed &
breakfast were: 'There's one bedroom and a couch in the living
room.' The addition was going to be a trophy room, according to
Mr. DiPalma. We all realize that the Bed & breakfast was only a
means to get the fishing business approved and now we are back to
Mr. DiPalma having two businesses in a small right-of-way. Do
you think you are being fair to completely reverse your previous
decisions by agreeing that a hardship exists for this 'poor' man?
You have the minutes from all the previous meetings with DiPalma,
and you know he has lied from day one. You asked Mrs. Bleibtrey
if they knew of the fishing business when they bought their
property in 1984. Recheck your minutes - DiPalma continually
denied having a fishing business, until Mr. Bleibtrey came upon
his ad in a fishing magazine several years after they purchased
their property. Board ,members, themselves, have caught' Mr.
DiPalma in his lies and have accused him of such. I hope that
each and everyone of you take a good, hard look not only at the
question as to which party here yeally bears the burden of
'hardship', but at yourselves as well. Sincerely, Elsa Kraft"
A letter dated September 20, 1995 "Gentlemen and Ladies of the
Board of Appeals: I've been reliably informed that at a previous
meeting of the Town Board to focus on this matter, Mr. DiPalma
held up my letter to the Board and represented incorrectly that I
approved of his plan to expand commercial operations on the small
stream location ACCESSED BY HIS TEN FOOT RIGHT OF WAY TO THE LAKE
SHORE WHERE HE DOCKS HIS COMMERCIAL FISHING BOAT. Our property
has hundreds of feet bordering the DiPalma Bed and Breakfast
enterprise, and soon to be our permanent residence. I
represented our position previously to the Zoning Board, as well
as concerns that in my judgement reflect valid concerns expressed
by residents and media concerning the southern basin of Lake
George. I would much prefer that the gentleman applicant avail
himself of the launch facilities of anyone of the four long
established MARINAS convenient to his Bed and Breakfast
ente1"P1" ise , only one of whom was aware of Mr. D iPa Ima ' s
application to the Zoning Board to establish his own commercial
dock on what generally has been perceived to be Lakefront
bordered by PRIVATE HOME PROPERTIES. All four area Marinas stand
ready and anxious to service the DiPalma fishing parties launched
generally very early in the morning in close and reliably
informed boisterous proximity to the Bleibtrey family bedrooms,
hence their repeatedly expressed concerns and my reasonable
sympathy with this families concerns, as well as the concerns of
others in the immediate area. I sympathize with Mr. DiPalma as
well as the Bleibtrey family, but my letters to the Board did not
represent approval of his application AS HE IS REPORTED TO HAVE
REPRESENTED, in contrast to my clearly expressed concerns
consistent with ongoing concerns for the water conditions in the
southern basin expressed by lakefront residents, MARINAS paying
high taxes tell me they WELCOME AND NEED MR. DIPALMA'S FISHING
PARTY BUSINESS AND ARE EQUIPPED TO PROVIDE ALL THE ACCOMMODATING
FACILITIES. Sincerely, Robert Bolen, Jr. Box 12 Pilot Knob, NY
12844"
MR. GREEN-Chris, who is Elsa Kraft?
located?
Does it give where she's
MS. CIPPERLY-She lives on the corner, by the North Queensbury
Fire House.
MR. THOMAS-She wasn't within 500 feet.
notification.
So she wasn't sent
MR. CARVIN-I have to admit, I don't, a quick scanning of the
minutes, I don't see where she was referred to in our last
meeting, in other words, that this was germane.
- 23 -
MR. THOMAS-You mean the Bolen letter?
MR. CARVIN-Or the Bolens.
MR. THOMAS-It could have been Planning Board.
MR. CARVIN-It could have been Planning Board. Okay.
public comment?
Any other
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Carvin, I'd like to respond, in part, for the
record. I think the three letters that you have really don't
offer much other argument except rehash the old arguments that
we've heard for the last year and a half on the same application.
Mr. Green asked where Mrs. Kraft lives. She lives at the
beginning of Cleverdale, not at this site or near this site or
within hearing of this site. I don't think Mr. Bolen lives in
the immediate area. He does have property there, I take that
back. The argument here is that this is a self-created hardship.
It is not a self-created hardship. Mr. DiPalma went through the
process, at the time, for all the necessary permits that would be
required for him to do what he is asking to do at this particular
time. He did, in January, receive site plan approval. At that
time of that site plan approval, there was full discussion that
there was intention to allow people who were guests of his bed
and breakfast to depart from his own dock. There was exclusion
of "the charter business", and I made exclusion of that. I still
stand by that. It is not the intention of Mr. DiPalma to have
people to come to this site and not be guests of the bed and
breakfast, simply for the purpose of departing for fishing trips
on the lake. I think that my comments in that regard have been
taken out of context, as to what I said we were doing and weren't
dol ng at that time, and if >'ou take a look at the mi nutes of that
January 25th meeting, you can clearly distinguish between my
argument and those who argued on the opposite side of that issue.
This is not a self-created hardship. It's something that came
about by the (lost word) of interpretation, long after we went
through the approval p1·ocess. I raised an issue, and I still
stand by the issue, as to the timeliness of the appeal that got
this Board to initially decide that there was a variance required
in this particular application. As to the question of the dollar
and cents proof for, the basis for the hardship, we have spoken
of that. When we are allowed to take people from our dock, we
can operate our bed and breakfast. We think that that's the only
attraction to a bed and breakfast in that particular area, is to
have that type of amenity to go with it. Without it, we aren't
going to operate. It's plain sense. It's not a matter of
comparison of some profit to no profit. This is a permitted use,
and this is what we have built the structure in part in reliance
of. We are not using the addition, or we wouldn't have built the
addition if we weTen't going to continue the bed and breakfast
and have it in operation. The beds, the condition which was a
room which started this whole thing, I forget exactly what it
was, it was 12 by 13 feet, or something in that nature, which
started this whole thing, but he needed a setback variance
because of the LC-42 zone. That was completed, even before that
application for the interpretation was filed with this Board. I
think that we do meet the requirements for a Use Variance in this
particular instance. I think it is unique to this property, and
I think it is unique to what you have before you, and so I don't
have a fear that we are not going to be able to sustain the
burden of proof. That's !!!..l:. judgement. It's up to this Board to
make the final Judgement on that issue, and I'm here to try to
answer any of your questions, if you have questions, and so is
~1r. DiPalma.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. To your knowledge, are there other, I'm going
to use the term "specialty bed and breakfasts"? I'm assuming
that what you're indicating is that your bed and breakfast is a
specialty bed and breakfast, i.e. that it basically caters to the
fishing clientele. Do you know if there's bed and breakfasts
- 24 -
'......
.",
that concentrate on horse riding or, I don't know, skydiving or
skeet-shooting or any, what would be a bed and breakfast, I
guess?
MR. O'CONNOR-At one time, we submitted to you, I think, brochures
from various bed and breakfasts. Everybody seemed to offer some
type of amenity to make themselves attractive to the public, as
opposed to just being some place that you did stay and sleep in.
I can submit those brochures back to you at this particular time.
After doing this for a year and a half, I honestly didn't think
we were going to get into the nuts and bolts of the application
again this evening. I apologize to you for that. I, personally,
have been to different bed and breakfasts that had different
amenities. None in our particular area. I've been to ones in
Vermont, Martha's Vineyard, different places, and everybody seems
to have a little something different that they offer to the
public. I think in Queensbury the bed and breakfasts that you
have is the one up the road, here, which is the Blueberry, they
call it the Blueberry Farms, or something of that nature. It's
run by the Oudekerks, and the people can walk down through the
pastures that they have, the berry fields that they have, and
participate in their berry picking if they want to participate in
that. There's one on Ridge Road. ,I know you've had some
discussions with their swimming pool and what not as being an
amenity that they offer, nothing peculiar to the land that I'm
aware of. I don't know of any other bed and breakfast in
Queensbury that offers the opportunity to go fishing from their
premises. I would presume that anyone that's established on
water might be able to offer that, whether it be on Glen Lake or
Lake George, or whatever. I have the applications. I have a
bunch of the brochures if you want to take them.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't know if that answers your question.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. In other words, he may be unique in the Town of
Queensbury, but specialty bed and breakfasts, I gueS$ what you're
saying, are not unique in the world of bed and breakfasts.
MR. O'CONNOR-No. I think they are. The one that I'm familiar
with over in Vermont, that's outside of Arlington, we've been
there three or four times, they have like a petting zoo or
something of that nature with Llamas that you can go see. When I
first started going there, they had horseback riding. They've
discontinued that. Then they went to cross country skiing across
the trails with the horseback riding. They still have that. So
they have a feature that they offer. They don't have the feature
of fishing.
MR. CARVIN-Any other public comment? Hearing none, seeing none,
I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. O'CONNOR-Any questions of the applicant?
MS. CIPPERLY-I think these are the brochures of some of them.
That was part of the appeal.
MR. CARVIN-Here's some other brochures that have been submitted
in the past indicating certain specialty items that certain bed
and breakfasts do offer, in conjunction with just the overnight
accommodations. Okay. Chris, do you have any thoughts?
MR. THOMAS-I think what this all boils down to, can the guests of
the bed and breakfast step off the dock into the boat to go
fishing. That's all what it boils down to, and when the Planning
Board gave the approval for the bed and breakfast, right there,
it gave them the right to use the dock, but the only issue here
is, can they step off the dock into the boat to go fishing.
- 25 -
That's what I see it boiled down to, plain and simple, and that's
what they're asking for this variance for, can we do it. Yes or
no. I think the Planning Board has put us in a particularly hard
place, here, and I don't see any optioM but to say yes, because
the guests of the bed and breakfast are entitled to go down to
the dock anyway. So, what's the big deal about stepping off a
dock into a boat? They're already there anyway.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. MENTER-Well, I would say we made the question quite a bit
more complicated when we determined that a Use Variance was
needed. Suddenly it's not that issue any longer. It's the issue
of, does it specifically meet the criteria for a Use Variance.
So, to me, that is the only issue, the Use Variance is the issue,
and, you know, it's certainly unique. I don't believe it's a
self-created hardship, but I don't believe that property could
not receive a return without this Use Variance, in any of a
number of different ways, and I've read through everything, and I
just haven't seen where that has been proven, and that is the
only stumbling block that I have, but once we determined that it
needed a Use Variance, that became a question in !J.1.Z mind. So
that's where I am with it.
MR. CARVIN-Bob, any thoughts?
MR. KARPELES-Well, I kind of feel the way I did last week. It's
a tough one. I can't see how a fishing charter business has got
to have a detrimental effect upon the character of the
neighborhood, and the more I think about it, the more I think
that that's true. If the fishing charter business had been there
before all the neighbors moved in and so forth, I would have a
lot more sympathy with it, but I can remember him being here and
claiming that he did not have <'3 fishing charter business. So,
that's the way I feel.
MR. CARVIN-Bill?
MR. GREEN-I think we addressed the charter business last week,
that I don't consider taking the guests of the bed and breakfast
off the dock as a charter. I consider that as an amenity of the
bed and breakfast. As long as those trips are limited to guests,
I don't have a problem with it. I don't want to see people
driving up off the street, going for the day, and then leaving.
If we limit it to guests only, I mean, Mr. DiPalma's chosen this
particular business as his livelihood here, and sure there may be
other reasonable uses for that property, but that's not what he
has chosen, and he has had the approval for the bed and
breakfast, and I would consider that a bed and breakfast on Lake
George, you know, being able to fishing, whether from the dock or
in a boat guided by Mr. DiPalma would be the same thing, and if
we can't stop them from going down and going off the dock, what's
the difference whether they get in a boat and go out on the lake?
MR. MENTER-So it meets the criteria for a Use Variance?
MR. GREEN-In !J.1.Z opinion. yes, and the, you know, not being able
to show a return, I mean, I wouldn't go and stay there if I
couldn't go fishing. I mean, that's what he has decided to use
that property for, and that's what I would go there and stay for,
and as you said, there might be other uses for that property, but
that's not what he's chosen to use it for.
MR. CARVIN-Tom?
MR. FORD-Well, I think most will recall where I stood on whether
or not a Use Variance was required. I was in opposition to that,
but I stand ready to support the Board's decision, and that's
where we are right now, that's brought us to that point. Having
said that, I believe in reviewing the criteria that in fact a
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--....-
hardship does and will continue to exist, as long as an approved
bed and breakfast can allow it's clients, it's patrons, to walk
over an approved right-of-way to a dock owned by the proprietor.
They can fish from that dock. They can cast for Bass, and yet,
by restricting them to not being able to get off that dock and
into a boat, I believe that we are creating a hardship for the
proprietor, and I think that there are restrictions, as several
of the Board members have indicated, such as confining the use of
that boat to patrons of the bed and breakfast. If we were to
confine the hours of operation, and also to a given boat, so that
we don't have a flotilla or an armada operating off that dock,
then it would seem to me that that would address or could address
some of the neighbor's concerns and issues.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Well, you have raised~ once again, a number of
interesting issues. This particular applicant has, over the last
couple of years, raised an awful lot of interesting issues. I
think we have to keep a number of items separate. I think as
this thing has traveled through the system, that the charter
business is, indeed a separate issue, away from the bed and
breakfast~ I think we have a closure on that, in that Mr.
DiPalma does not operate a charter business from his home off the
deck. That if somebody shows up looking for a charter, that Mr.
DiPalma goes down to his boat and drives to another marina, picks
up that charter, and conducts his business. So I think it's
semantics whether you say he conducts a charter business out of
his house. I think he's got an office there, but I think the
issue has been resolved, in that the actual presence of the
customers actually are picked up elsewhere~ I think Mr. Thomas
has got an interesting comment in that the bed and breakfast did
go to site plan review, was approved, and he is allowed to have a
bed and breakfast there. I also think that we all do what we do
best, and in Mr. DiPalma's case, he is a licensed fishing guide,
and has been a licensed fishing guide for a number of years~ and
it only makes sense for him to operate a bed and breakfast
stressing fishing. I don't know if he would, he probably would
suffer an economic detriment if he tried to do something that he
wasn't capable of doing. I mean, he may not be a hiker. He may
not be a butterfly collector. He may not be a horseback rider,
but he is a fisherman, and~ therefore~ he would more than likely
operate most efficiently a bed and breakfast under a fishing
guise. I think the big issue is the right-of-way issue, and I
think that's an issue that we have to remain away from. I don't
think that this would have half the impact that it's having if we
were not dealing with a right-of-way, and I truly do sympathize
with the Bleibtreys, and I don't have an answer, and I still
think that that answer is found in civil court, as to what
actually constitutes the use of a right-of-way. I have no doubt,
again, I've stated this before, I have no doubt in my mind that
Mr. Bleibtrey has a use to the right-of-way, but I'm not positive
that paying customers, friends, or other folks that are visiting
Mr. DiPalma also have that use of the right-of-way, and, again,
I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a judge, and I don't have an answer
to that, and I think that answer is found elsewhere, not at the
Zoning Board. I think that if we grant a variance, that the
variance does have to stipulate, or should stipulate, the actual
activities that can go on here. I think that the Use Variance is
required, in this particular situation, and not only in this
particular situation, but in many situations where ou'" Ordinances
and our definitions are vague as to what can go on in a bed and
breakfast. I think that just using the term "bed and breakfast"
is too broad of a situation, that that covers too many areas, and
I've used the example, in the past, of an amusement park. An
amusement park may have 19 different rides, and they may bring in
another ride, and that may actually need to apply for a Use
Variance. So that issue has been confronted before, and I think
it's the same issue with this bed and breakfast as far as the use
is concerned. So I think that we have asked the applicant to
submit a Use Variance, that it should stand the test of the Use
Variance, and I guess my feeling is that on'all cases, it does
- 27 -
stand with, obviously, the stipulations, the test for the
granting of a Use Variance. Having said that, I guess everything
has been said. I would call for a motion. Does anybody have a
motion?
MR. GREEN-What were the hours stipulations that we talked about
before?
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I have a skeleton of a motion, and it's
certainly a long ways from complete, but I think Mr. Caffrey has
indicated the hours of, seven to five, was it?
MR. CAFFREY-Nine to five.
MR. CARVIN-Nine to five. I think that that's an unrealistic time
frame for most fisherman.
MR. CAFFREY-You've got to think of people sleeping in a house,
though. Most people don't always get up that early.
MR. CARVIN-I would entertain any thoughts on the hours.
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Chairman, I think we stipulated the last time,
seven to nine, and I remind the Board that what we're talking
about here is a very limited use. I think in the two years
they've béen operating, they're talking about 13 different
occasions on one year and 9 occasions on another year, where we
actually operated, had people as a bed and breakfast. This is
not the Grand Hotel. It is a very small, unobnoxious operation,
and we will stand by the hours of seven to nine.
MR. CARVIN-Is the Board comfortable with that?
MR. THOMAS-Seven a.m. to nine p.m., or seven p.m. to nine a.m.?
MR. O'CONNOR-Seven a.m. to nine p.m.
MR. CARVIN-I think seven a.m. to nine p.m., all in the same day.
MR. FORD-Well, while I feel comfortable with the seven a.m., the
nine p.m. gives me some discomfort, in that, as we get deeper
into the summer~ and into August, and pressing into September, we
are now looking at nine p.m. being well after dark. Perhaps
there would be some way of tying it into official sunset. Maybe
that's being too restrictive, but we're looking at official
sunset now of being around 6:59 p.m., seven o'clock, and by this,
that would be a fishing charter out there on the lake two hours
after dark.
MS. CIPPERLY-I think in the last meeting Mr. DiPalma said
something about dusk or dark, also.
MICHAEL DIPALMA
MR. DIPALMA-The reason I said nine p.m., a lot of the guides on
the west side of the lake can be Bass fishing charters, called
Bass charters, and they call me to take some of the people out
when they're filled, and they're not over until, like, nine
o'clock. So, actually, it wouldn't matter, because I'd be coming
in empty, and that's not part of the deal, that's not for pay.
MR. O'CONNOR-You'd probably wrap up your fishing at dusk.
Probably a half hour, an hour after dusk, is that too late, an
hour after dusk to get back to the dock?
MR. DIPALMA-The reason I said that is I haven't used that dock
after nine o'clock with people all year. I've been down there
maybe two times, and that's it, but I want to cover myself in
case one time I have to come in late.
- 28 -
MR. O'CONNOR-What we've done in other occasions is said that the
ordinary hours of operation would be A, B, and C, with the
understanding that there may be an exceptional occasion where
something else happens. If you're on the northern part of the
lake, and you get caught in a storm, you're certainly aren't
going to try and get back through the storm. I don't know how
you'd fit that in, but I've gone through big, long dissertations,
and I think Mr. Caffrey even on the other side of that, with an
asphalt (lost word) where we've talked about the occasional job
that says, you will run 24 hours, or you will not get that
particular job, and there's been exceptions made in that, on
other Z8A, or the Planning Board has indicated that there's some
understanding that sometimes there is an exception to what you
put forth as being the rule. Nine p.m. we could live with on all
occasions. If you've got to make it a little tighter, I would
want to make it tighter with the understanding that that's normal
operating hours.
MR. KARPELES-I'm not in favor of the whole damn thing. I think
seven a.m. is awfully early for the neighbors, if there's going
to be any noise there, and as they've claimed they've heard some
language come out of there.
MR. O'CONNOR-We have neighbors here, also, Mr. Karpeles, who
could testify that there's been no noise. We didn't bring them
here tonight. They didn't want to go back through two years of
testimony. We think it would be a fairly decent operation. They
can go down and fish off that dock at any time. I think Mr.
Thomas really has centered on what the real issue here is. Can
they step off the dock and leave the premises, as opposed to
staying on the dock. Likewise, that might be a benefit (lost
word). You're not talking about changing the character of what's
already permitted.
MR. FORD-Is there any concern about the issue that I raised about
the number of boats that would be uti 1 ized in 'the charter
business?
MR. O'CONNOR-I stipulated that we will have one boat utilized in
the charter business, not the charter business. I've used that
term before and gotten in trouble. We will have one boat used in
connection with the bed and breakfast for bed and breakfast
guests. That dock does allow two boats. That's the permit that
we have from the Lake George Park Commission. There may be
another boat there, but it will not be used in connection with
our loading people from the bed and breakfast.
MR. FORD-Could I ask for an explanation of something I read in
the minutes of the last meeting, and that was that it was alleged
that there had, at veTY times, been three or four boats at that
dock?
MR. O'CONNOR-I think the answer DiPalma gave you, and correct me
if I'm wrong, is that on any time that there's been more than two
boats there, it's been occasional. It's been during the day
time. It was people just visiting. It's been very seldom. It's
li ke anyb,ody's home. You could have four or five people visit
you. This is his home. This is an accessory use to his home.
They haven't been boats that have been there in connection with
the other people going from that property fishing.
MR. DIPALMA-What he said is correct, but many years ago, I was
involved with another person at the dock. and I was a part time
resident here. I just came back to take care of my property.
Well, before I noticed that there were a couple of boats at the
dock that weren't mine. So I told him to have one leave, and
that boat did leave. After a while, this guy was being hassled
so much, he decided to leave, too. So he's not there anymore,
either. So it was never like three boats working.
- 29 -
I'
"'---
MS. CIPPERLY-Are there particular days of the week that you
operate, or is it?
MR. O'CONNOR-Seven days a week.
MS. CIPPERLY-I was trying to figure out the operating hours, if
it was any particular days.
MR. DIPALMA-The majority of people I take out on the weekends,
holidays. I try to get them to come up during the week, because
you don't have people during the week, and, unless they're on
vacation during the summer, they can only make it on weekends,
and you have to fit around their schedule.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I've asked this question, I think, last week, or
last meeting. Have you had an opportunity where clientele's for
a bed and breakfast might show up with their own boats, and if
so, would those boats be docked at your dock?
MR. DIPALMA-If they were allowed to, they would be, allowed to
meaning that I have a Class B Marina permit. There's a permit
you have to get to have one or more of your boats, have two boats
on your dock, one not being related to you, and this occurred
because the Bleibtreys complained about me.
MR. O'CONNOR-Lets not create an issue out of that subject. He is
willing to stipulate that that will not occur. If somebody wants
to stay at his place, with the bed and breakfast, and bring their
own boat, they will have to make arrangements at a marina, or
they will just have to trailer it and put it in on a day basis
and take it back out on a day basis.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-That was not part of our presentation, or intention
of our presentation. Lets not create a problem with this.
MR. CARVIN-All right. I have, as I said, I assume nobody else
has got a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE USE VARIANCE NO. 59-1995 MICHAEL DIPALMA,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
The applicant proposes to provide fishing opportunities as part
of the services provided under his approved bed and breakfast
operation. The applicant has indicated that a reasonable return
cannot be realized from just the overnight bed and breakfast
clientele, as this bed and bre~kfast is unique in that it is
advertised and promoted as a fishing bed and breakfast. Mr.
DiPalma has been and is a licensed fishing guide, and his
expertise is in offering fishing as an accessory use beyond the
normal overnight accommodations and breakfast associated with the
operation of a bed and breakfast. Both the bed and breakfast and
fishing opportunities are secondary to the occupancy of the
dwelling by Mr DiPalma. This hardship is unique, as this is the
only bed and breakfast in the area, and possibly the only bed and
breakfast in the area offering fishing as an accessory use.
There would be no adverse impact on the essential character of
the neighborhood, as Mr. DiPalma indicates a low intensity use
and activity with regard to the bed and breakfast, and this would
be the minimum relief necessary to address the hardship indicated
by the applicant, while preserving and protecting the character
of the neighborhood. However, the following restrictions do
apply to the granting of this variance. Number One, no other
fishing business is to be conducted from the property. Number
Two, the fishing opportunities are only to be available to fully
paid guests of the bed and breakfast who must stay overnight, and
who's stay is limited to one week, as outlined by the Town
Definitions for bed and breakfast facilities. Number Three, the
- 30 -
J
hours of the fishing operation are limited to 7 a.m. to 9 p.m.
Number Four, only a single applicant owned and operated boat is
to be used by any bed and breakfast occupant wishing to utilize
the fishing opportunity. This Board is cognizant of Mr. and Mrs.
Bliebtrey's and others opposition to this variance, but feel that
the mitigating issue revolves around the use of a right-of-way,
which we feel are not under the purview of this Board.
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
MS. CIPPERLY-You had a phrase in there that said no other fishing
business vJill be conducted from the dock.
MR. CARVIN-No, from the property.
MS. CIPPERLY-From the property.
MR. O'CONNOR-That doesn't prohibit Mr. DiPalma from.
MR. CARVIN-Having an office.
MR. O'CONNOR-He and his boat going off the property.
MR. CARVIN-That's correct. That changes no status.
MR. O'CONNOR-That's my understanding.
MR. CARVIN-In other words, the only fishing folks that YOU can
take "off the dock" would be overnight guests of the bed and
breakfast.
MR. O'CONNOR-Or friends, that's not related to business.
talking about business activities only.
We're
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, we can't control friends, but
maybe the Bleibtreys can.
MR. O'CONNOR-My point is just so that we have discussion here, so
that Staff has an understanding if there is an issue later. I'm
trying to deal with~ I'm not trying to create issues.
MR. CARVIN-I mean, are friends going off the dock now?
MR. O'CONNOR-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-You can't stop that~
MR. KARPELES-How can you distinguish between a friend and a
charter service?
MR. THOMAS-Check the receipt.
MR. CARVIN-As I said, I think the issue still comes around the
right-of-way.
MR. GREEN-Don't even go down that road.
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Ford. Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles
MR. CARVIN-I just
done on DiPalma.
correct, we did not
until this meeting.
noticed. We had a SEQRA that we should have
It's a Type I. I think, if memory serves
do that. I think we said we would put it off
We can do that at the end.
NEW BUSINESS:
- 31 -
AREA VARIANCE NO. 62-1995 TYPE II WR-IA CEA NORMA A.
BAERTSCHI OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ASSEMBLY POINT ROAD, ON WEST
SIDE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO RELOCATE AN EXISTING DOCK. RELIEF IS
SOUGHT FROM SECTION 179-60(B)1(b), WHICH DESCRIBES THE SETBACK
REQUIREMENTS FOR DOCKS. CROSS REF. SPR 48-95 (ADIRONDACK PARK
AGENCY) (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 9/13/95 (BEAUTIFICATION
COMMITTEE) TAX MAP NO. 6-1-6 LOT SIZE: 0.12 ACRES SECTION
179-60( B )1( b )
BRUCE JORDAN, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 62-1995, Norma A. Baertschi,
Meeting Date: September 20, 1995 "Applicant: Norma A.
Baertschi Project Location: Assembly Point Road Proposed
Project: Applicant proposes to relocate part of a pre-existing
dot: k. Conformance with the Ordi nance: Section 179-60( B)
requires a minimum setback of twenty feet from the adjacent
property line extended into the lake on the same axis as the
property line runs on-shore where it meets the lake or at right
angles to the mean high-water mark, whichever results in the
greater setback. The Zoning Administrator has interpreted this
to mean that on the north side of the dock, the right angle line
would be used, and on the south side, the line on the same aX1S
as the property line would be used, as that would give the
greatest amount of setback on either side of the dock.
Therefore, the relief sought for the new dock would be six feet
on the north side and eight feet on the south side. Criteria for
considering an Area Variance, according to Chapter 267, Town Law
1. Benefit to the applicant: The applicant would be able to
move the dock and end a lawsuit commenced by the northerly
neighbor, apparently contending that the Baertschi dock is an
intrusion on the use of their property. 2. Feasible
alternatives: Continuing the lawsuit is only alternative which
L;Jould not require a var iance, and would be more costly than
moving the dock. 3. Is this relief substantial relative to the
ordinance? The relief is not substantial, and decreases the
nonconformity on the north side. 4. Effects on the neighborhood
or community? TheTe would be no adverse impact on the community.
5. Is this difficulty self-created? This difficulty was due to
the location of a pre-existing dock, not due to actions by the
applicant. Parcel History: The Baertschi's or family members
have owned this and surrounding properties since the 1950's.
Staff Comments and Concerns: Staff has no concerns over the
relocation of the Baertschi dock. It seems unfortunate that this
is taking place, since this minimal dock has existed for years in
its current location. The dock on the adjoining property to the
north does n6t appeaT to be located twenty feet off the property
line extended into the lake, either. SEOR: Type II"
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the Warren Cburity Planning Board,
held on the 13th day of September 1995, the above application for
an Area Variance to relocate existing dock to eliminate
encroachment on neighboring property. was reviewed and the
following action was taken. Recommendation to: Approve
Comments: Concurring with local conditions." Signed by C.
Powel South, Chairperson.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is there anything you'd care to add to the
application?
MR. JORDAN-I don't think there's really too much that I can add
because it's a very straight forward application. We're here
because of the technical requirements of this Ordinance, when
you're either installing or relocating an existing dock. Under
circumstances such as these, we have to apply for the relief
that's requested here. The only other thing I can say is, from
anyone's point of view, when you go out onto the lake, and you
look back at this property, what you're going to see after the
- 32 -
--
proposed relocation is essentially the same as what you're going
to see today. My people intended to clearly slide this thing 11
feet to the south to make it fit the proposed site that's
indicated on Mr. Nesbitt's drawing, that's part of the
application. They don't plan to reconfigure the structure, the
amenities_ or anything else associated with the existing
facilities, nor has any request been made of this application in
respect to anything else, other than the relocation of the pier
extending into the water.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any questions of the applicant?
MR. THOMAS-I've just got one question for Bruce. Do you want the
letter that you wrote to Bartlett~ Pontiff, Stewart and Rhodes
read into the record?
MR. JORDAN-That's
that was actually
and I thought it
really here.
not necessary. I left that as part of the,
part of the Lake George Pa.rk."Commission record,
would give you some background as to why we're
MR. THOMAS-Okay..
So you don't want it read in there.
MR. JORDAN-No, thank you very much.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Anyother questions? I'd open the public
hea ring.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
FLORENCE CONNOR
MRS. CONNOR-My name's Florence Connor, and I'm on Assembly Point,
and I just want to say, I have no problem with this at all.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you.
MR. FORD-Could we ask how close you are to the property.
MRS. CONNOR-I'm not close to the dock. I'm on the o,ther side of
the Point, but I know the area. and I'm very watchful of, what
goes on, and I feel this is no problem.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you. Any correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. Just a note, at the bottom of a Notice of Public
Hearing sent out, dated September 18. 1995, "Dear Christian
Thomas: We will appreciate all the help your Board will give
Norma Baertschi. She and Edward Baertschi are fine, cooperative
neighbors. Yours truly. Lydia Ernest and Mr. George Ernst".
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Any questions, gentlemen, of the applicant?
MR. THOMAS-What you're going to do is just take the existing
dock, dismantle it, move it over, reassemble it?
MR. JORDAN-That's correct.
MR. THOMAS-You're not going to add any length to it, or width to
it?
MR. JORDAN-No.
MR. THOMAS-Exactly the same?
MR. JORDAN-We don't have any approval from the Park Commission to
change the configuration, widen it, or anything of that nature.
- 33 -
MR. THOMAS-Okay. The approval from the Park Commission was just
to relocate?
MR. JORDAN-Yes, as is represented in the attachment to the
application.
MR. THOMAS-Okay.
HR. CARVIN-I just havè one question of Staff'~1 In your, notes you
indicate'the dock on the adjöi:ning propei·tyto the north does not
appear to be located 2~ feet off th& proþerty line èxtending to
the faké'either., Is there any follow up on that, o)~will there
be any follow up on that?
'-'. 'j
MS~ CIPPERLY-Well, that underwent site p'lan rêview last year, and
I don't know \¡,¡hat'the ~Planning 8bard's, I 'looked up :the Planning
Board Site, Plan Review, and there reatly w'asn "t a surveyed þlot
plan in there that sho~.¡ed the dista'nce to the p)"operty line, but
wh€Ù; you. meaSL!¡,re it :on the survey,ed map öf the Baertschi 's, the
neighboring dock 1sn't 20 feet f1"omthe line either-. So, ,it just
seem:èd unfdrtÙnate ·thst thé:BaertscfH's had to mòve theirs.
They're: bot.h pn:i:"::'ex 1st i ng doc ks '.
;,"..
MR. CARVIN-Well, that"s what I'm asking. Will Planning follow up
on thét to,vè~ify ,~heth~r a variance is needed?
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes.
MR. JORDAN-The one t.o the north is (lost. word) that's reasonably.
, ,,'"
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes. That was built last year, and as I said, I'd
have to look into, I know Warren County mentioned setbacks, but I
don't know why the Planning Board Staff didn't follow up on that.
MR. CARVIN~Well, is this another case where they say they're
going to do one thing and end up doing something else, I wonder?
MS. CIPPERLY-I don't believe so. As I said, I have to look into
that, but I will follow up on it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
anyone? Anyone
order.
Any other questions, gentlemen?
uncomfortable with this? Okay.
Any comments,
Motion's in
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 62-1995 NORMA A. BAERTSCHI,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Thomas:
The applicant is proposing to ie-locate part of a pre-existing
dock. In order for the applicant to proceed with their project,
they need relief from Section 179-608, which requires a mInImum
setback of 20 feet from the adjacent property line, extended into
the lake on the same axis as the property line run~ on shore. I
would grant relief of eight feet on the north side and nine feet
on the south side of, the minimum of 20 feet as outlined by
Section 179-60B. The benefit to the applicant would be that they
would be able to move their dock and end a lawsuit which has been
commenced by a northerly neighbor, apparently: contending that· the
Baertschi's dock is an intrusion on the use of their property.
The only feasible alternative would be for the applicant to
continue the lawsuit, which may result in the need of no
variance, but obviously in the long run would probably be more
costly than moving the dock. This relief is not substantial in
relation and relative to the Ordinance. By the granting of this
relief, there would be no adverse impact on the community. This
difficulty is not self created, due to the location of the pre-
existing dock and the current legal proceedings by the northerly
neighbor. The 8aertschi's or family members have owned this
particular property and surrounding property since the 1950's.
- 34 -
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Green,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
AREA VARIANCE NO. 63-1995 TYPE I WR-IA MICHAEL CANTANUCCI
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ASSEMBLY POINT ROAD, ON WEST SIDE
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO COMBINE 4 PROPERTIES TO CREATE A 1.9 ACRE
LOT. THE LOTS CURRENTLY CONTAIN FOUR RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES, TWO
OF WHICH ARE PROPOSED TO BE REMOVED, ONE RAZED AND REPLACED, AND
ONE MODIFIED. SECTION 179-16C, WATERFRONT RESIDENTIAL, REQUIRES
ONE ACRE PER PRINCIPLE BUILDING; SECTION 179-12 STATES THAT
THERE SHALL BE NO MORE THAN ONE PRINCIPAL BUILDING IN A
RESIDENTIAL ZONE ON ANY SINGLE LOT LESS THAN TWO ACRES IN SIZE,
SO RELIEF IS REQUIRED FROM THESE SECTIONS. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
RAZE AN EXISTING CAMP SET BACK 32 FEET FROM THE SHORELINE, AND
REPLACE IT WITH A 4,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE SET BACK 50 FEET FROM
THE SHORELINE, SO RELIEF IS NEEDED FROM THE 75 FOOT SHORELINE
SETBACK REQUIRED IN SECTION 179-60. (ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY)
(LAKE GEORGE PARK COMMISSION) (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 9/13/95
TAX MAP NO. 6-3-17, 18, 32, 15.3 LOT SIZE: 1.9 ACRES SECTION
179-60, 179-16C, 179-12 CROSS REF. MODIFICATION TO SUBDIVISION
NO. 22-1993
BOB STEWART, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 63-1995, Michael Cantanucci,
Meeting Date: September 20, 1995 "Applicant: Michael
Cantanucci Project Location: Brayton Lane, Assembly Point
Proposed Project and Conformance with the Ordinance: Applicant
proposes to combine 4 properties to create 1.9 acre lot.. The
lots currently contain four residential structures, two of which
are proposed to be removed, one razed and replaced, and one
modified in the future. Section 179-16C, Waterfront Residential,
requires one acre per principal building; Section 179-12 states
that there shall be no more than one principal building ,in a
residential zone on any single lot less than two acres in size,
so relief is required from these sections. Applicant proposes to
raze an existing camp set back 32 feet from the shoreline, and
replace it ,with a 4,000 square foòt hòuseand 6,00 square foot
garage set back 50 feet from the shoreline,' so relief is needed
from the 75-foot shoreline setback required in Section 179-60.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance, according to Chapter
267, Town Law: 1. Benefit to the applicant: Applicant claims
the existing structure is deteriorated and wishes to replace it
with a newly constructed house. The new structure would also be
considerably larger, at 4,000 square feet, than the existing
building. 2. Feasible alternatives: Downsizing the house could
make it possible to achieve better compliance with the required
setbacks, as well as causing less site disturbance. Building the
house in the rear portion of the property would be possible but
not desirable, considering the waterfront nature of the lot. 3.
Is this relief substantial relative to the ordinance? The relief
sought is 33% of the required setback. The number of principal
structures would be double the allowed number, but under the
proposed plan, the number of principal structures involved would
be decreased by one. 4. Effects'on the neighborhood or
communi ty? This project has, the potential for a great impact on
the nature of this area. The size of the house, relative to the
existing situation, and to others in the area, will make it much
mors visible from the lake than the existing structures are. The
proposed height is 33 feet at the highest point. Clearing
necessary to construction could also have quite an impact
visually, and appears to be of concern to those neighbors who
have reviewed the file. The new septic system, with the leaching
- 35 -
area over 400 feet from the lake, would have a positive effect.
Combining lots to create one large parcel nearly twice the
required acreage could also be considered a desirable situation.
The architect has made a commendable effort to capture the
character of historic Adirondack construction, but the size of
the structure is worrisome to some who live in the area, and plan
to attend the public hearing to express their concerns
personally. 5. Is this difficulty self-created? The removal of
the structures appears to be a combination of building condition
and personal preference. The triangular shape of the front
portion of the lot has some impact on building location. Parcel
History: There are 3 parcels with structures on them, history as
follows, based on Town Assessor's records:
6-3-17
6-3-18
6-3-32
Main house, built 1905, 4 bedrooms, 1863 s.f. liv. space
Camp built 1903, 1 bedroom 500 s.f. Is
Camp (red) built 1900, 2 bedroom 640 s.f. Is
Staff Comments and Concerns: Staff believes it is possible to
reduce the amount of relief required, primarily by reducing the
size of the house and moving it back from the shore, possibly
achieving compliance with the required 75-foot setback. If the
variance is granted, it is recommended that this project be sent
to the Planning Board for Site Plan Review to address stormwater
runoff, visibility, delineate clearing areas, address engineering
issues related to siting the septic system and boat storage
building, etc. It should be noted that on the revised site plan
submitted on September 18, with the rendering of the house, it is
indicated that modifications are planned for the "Burnham
Cottage". These are not being addressed at this time, and would
require site plan review, at least. SEOR: This is an Unlisted
action in a Critical Environmental Area, making it a Type I
action. Applicant has completed a Long Form Environmental
Assessment and the Zoning Board is the sole involved agency, so
may proceed with the SEQR determination."
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board held
on the 13th day of September 1995, the above application for an
Area Variance for the removal of 2 existing seasonal structures
and replacement with a new year round residential structure and
one storage structure. was reviewed and the following action was
taken. Recommendation to: No County Impact". Signed C. powel
South, Chairperson.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is there anything that you'd care to add?
MR. STEWART-Yes. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board, my name is
Bob Stewart. I'm an attorney from Glens Falls. I'm here tonight
speaking on behalf of the owners of the property, of Wallace
Trust, and Mr. James Wallace, the Trustee of that Trust, is here
tonight to answer any questions, and I'm also here tonight on
behalf of the potential buyer of that property, Mr. Michael
Cantanucci, who's also here tonight. With me is Dennis MacElroy,
of the Environmental Design Partnership, who has done most of the
work in putting this entire package and preparation together, and
he is probably going to be able to answer any technical questions
that you may have, better than I can. I'm going to try to keep
this quite brief, and hopefully cheerful because I think this
looks like a pretty good one. You've heard the explanation that
we're pulling together fouT parcels into one large parcel. If I
may, this which is outlined in green is the resulting parcel, and
you can see it's oddly shaped and it has this narrow neck in the
middle. The ultimate proposal is to take a small existing house,
which is here, and to refurbish it. That's not part of this
application tonight. That matter will probably go, ultimately,
before the Planning Board, but we thought you were entitled to be
aware of that fact in your overall view of things. Here outlined
in the clear black box is the one and a half story main house
which now exists, and it exists 32 feet back from the lakeshore,
and of course the owners could, or the potential buyer could re-
- 36 -
----_._-_._--.,'-_.~-_.-
build that, re-habit, and enlarge it backwards, but it's an old,
old camp, I believe 1905 the application stated it was built.
It's up on piers, and really there's nothing there to work with.
You'd spend an awful lot of money and I think end up with (lost
words) when you were done. Instead of that, the proposal is to
demolish it, build a new house which would now be back 50 feet
from the shoreline, rather than the 32 feet that you have now.
The reason for the 52'feet, is to accommodate the size of the
house, because as you corne back, and you can see the lot gets
narrower and narrower, you have to have a total of 50 foot
setbacks on either side, and to do that, you really can't get
back much more than the 50 feet. The existing septic system,
which is now up near the front of the lot, is going to be brought
all the way back here to the rear of the lot, some 450 feet from
the lake, and we think that will be an enormous improvement.
There is a small camp existing right here on the corner. It's
just outlined in a black line. It's a little hard to see. It
actually encroaches over onto the neighbors somewhat, as you'll
see. That's been there forever and a day. That's,going to be
demolished entirely. There is another building back in this
area, a camp which also will be demolished in its entirety. Mr.
Cantanucci has several boats, and there is a proposal to have
this storage building to store those boats in the winter time.
Also because, here on Lake George, and I live up near the end of
the Point and I have the same problem, he can't get a full
basement down under these houses. So in terms of work area,
storage, things of that nature, this would also serve for that
purpose also. The present driveway accessing the property comes
in across the adjacent neighbors. That's going to be eliminated,
and a new road will come in, all the way on our property, and we
will sign off to the neighbor any claims we have to that highway,
which will be an enormous improvement for him. In terms of
views, we have met with the Young family, who own this property
here, and they're the only ones I can think of who's views might
be effected at all, and in our discussions, and in agreement with
them, the house has been designed so that this wall is at a bit
of an angle, giving them all of the view out this Bay, and their
best view is across this Bay and out the length of it to the main
lake and Dome Island. There's a beautiful view out through
there. This house will give them all of the view that they had
before, and in fact should improve it, because we will be taking
down this one and a half story house that's right there that
blocks their view to some extent right now. So their new view
will be as good as, if not better than, their existing view. In
terms of the benefit to the potential buyer, of course, a new
home. He has a large family, three children. His parents live
with them. He wants to make provisions for them. It's a large
Italian family, and, obviously, they need a home of some size to
meet their needs. ~his old camp doesn't do it, and as I said,
it's pretty dilapidated and old, and it would take an awful lot
of money to really restore it correctly. It's been pulled back
20 feet which is, I think, a big enhancement for everybody, but
to pull it back any farther, you start to get squeezed in so that
you can't fit in a house of this house. It really would make no
sense, of course, to buy, and pay the money that you have to pay
for Lake George property, and get all the way back here, the back
end of the property. That wouldn't make any sense at all. Now,
in terms of the character of the neighborhood, I would like to
show you these if I may. If you were to look at the property
from the lake, the first house that you would see is pictured in
this photograph. This would be the house immediately to the
left, viewed from the lake, and you can get some idea of this
proximity to the water. It clearly is not 75 feet or anywhere
close to it. This next photograph I will pass around is the
second house to the left, from the subject property, lovely
places, but in terms of setback from the lake and whether we
would be different or would create some problem, I think these
may clear your mind. The third photograph coming along the table
is the third house to the left of the subject property, and now
the fourth photograph is still to the left. You're turning the
- 37 -
Point, and starting down toward the Harris Bay Boat Company, and
there's about three houses shown there, and I'm not going to go
any farther to the left. I think that will give you a pretty
good idea. Now, immediately to the right of the subject property
as viewed from the lake are these series of houses, turning the
corner and heading back out onto Assembly Point. Now, Sue
Cipperly kindly gave me today a computer printout of information
that her Department has which shows this Point and the houses. I
don't think it shows it, maybe, as clearly as those photographs
do, but it shows the houses and their location, how close they
are to the shorefront, and the house that is right at the Number
17 is the one that we propose to take down and build a new house
20 feet back from it, and you will see that in that area the old
house that's existing now is farther back than almost anything
else, and of course we intend to go 20 feet back from it.
MR. FORD-A question if I might. You've used 20 feet back further
several times. Is that accurate, or is it accurate at 50 feet?
MR. STEWART-Well, we are 32 feet now, okay. Is it 52 or 50?
DENNIS MACELROY
MR. MACELROY-It's 50 from the main lake.
little indentation just to the west side
boathouse.
It's 50
of the
from that
existing
MR. STEWART-Okay. I was confused. We have two spots where we
have to be careful. You'll see this little tiny bay that comes
in behind the boathouse. If you went over there and looked you
really wouldn't notice it, but it's there. At a diagonal from
the proposed corner of the new house to it, that's 50 feet.
Straight back from the main lake, and that's really what L was
talking about, will be 52, whereas now we're 32, and that's the
extra 20 I was talking about.
MS. CIPPERLY-Those computer maps
different scales of, the parcel
actual location of the building
know, the reason it's done from
way to get a relative.
that both of us
lines are very
on the parcel
aerial photos,
have given you,
accur ate. The
is within, you
but it's a good
MR. STEWART-Yes. It's my understanding that these were developed
from aerial photographs, and I can't represent they're accurate.
MR. KARPELES-What's 18? That isn't the wood frame camp?
MS. CIPPERLY-That's the Burnham cottage, 18 is the parcel number.
MR. STEWART-No, that's on another parcel. This, the Burnham camp
I think did not show in the aerial photograph because of the
trees.
MR. MACELROY-That's Burnham.
MR. STEWART-It
another parcel.
is Burnham?
That's right.
That's right, because there
We're joining these parcels.
~...¡as
MR. KARPELES-Well, that's what I'm wondering.
right?
That's this,
MR. MACELROY-Yes.
MS. CIPPERLY-The parcels with numbers on them are the ones that
are being effected by this project.
MR. STEWART-All right. I think one last major point I would like
to make, and then we'll answer any questions. I don't want to
get into a long, drawn out oration. The appearance of the house
itself, the buyer and his architect have spent a lot of time
- 38 -
--
"---
trying to come up with something that's beautiful but also fits
this area of the country. What they've come up with, or
attempted to come up with, is something that is Adirondack in
style. It's a substantial house, but you'll notice that the
forward portion of it, that portion closest to the lake, is one
or one and a half story high. There is a section of it that is
two stories high, but that's in the middle of the building and
toward the rear. Now this is the general concept of the house,
the appearance of the house that we'd like to build. The artist
who rendered this, of course, doesn't show a single tree out in
front, because there's point in doing an artist's rendering and
then hiding it with a bunch of trees, but there are a substantial
amount of trees there in that lake frontage area, and they will
be maintained as best they can. Of course you know the rule that
you have, within the first 35 feet, very, very limited cutting
that can be allowed, but I didn't want to leave with you the
impression that the house was going to be bare, as seen from the
lake, as the artist has painted it here. All those trees, or
certainly most of those trees will remain, but that is the type
of design that Mr. Cantanucci is planning; So, from my point of
view, it looked like there were a good deal of pluses. We're
getting rid of small, older camps. We're combining a series of
small, tiny, substandard parcels into one large lot. The lot is
1.9 acres, and we certainly wish we could squeeze one tenth of an
acre more and have two. That would eliminate one of your
decisions tonight, but it just isn't there. We would be left
with the new house, the old house, which will ultimately be
restored and improved, and a storage building way back from the
lake which shouldn't be visible. The new septic system, I think
450 feet back from the lake, whereas the old one is up more to
the front. We do not believe we impact or impair in any way on
the neighbor's views. The new house ~ill be back 20 feet farther
than what's there now, and the house to be built is, I think, an
elegant design. It should blend nicely in there, beautiful
Adirondack in character, and again, I think that it will be a
huge asset. So that's our pitch, and we'll answer any questions
we can.
MR. KARPELES-That Burnham camp you call it, is that tied in to
the new septic tank, or will that be?
MR. STEWART-It is not. Dennis, can you answer that?
MR. MACELROY-It is not currently part of the four bedroom design
in the back. We haven't shown as much, but there is a second two
bedroom area that would be part of any site plan review that that
property would be subject to or that structure would be subject
to, in any further proceedings to the Planning Board. So the
answer to the question there is there is another area, a two
bedroom area, an area for a two bedroom system elsewhere on the
property, that lt isn't shown there, but certainly will be in any
presentation to the Planning Board, as far as the site plan
revie\>J.
MS. CIPPERLY-That would also be in the rear part of the property,
right?
MR. MACELROY-You can see on the site plans that you've received,
the areas of Test Pits 9 and 10, over in this vicinity of the
property. They were done, and that will support a two bedroom
system in that area, which was what the Burnham cottage is.
MR. CARVIN-What would you do, pump that all the way?
MR. MACELROY-Correct, similar to the main structure also involves
pumpi ng.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I have a
just need a clarification.
very long thing?
question on the lot lines here. I
Is this a separate parcel here, this
- 39 -
MR. MACELROY-That's part of
property.
the Repinski, the neighboring
MR. CA~VIN-AII right. Is that being bought?
MR. MACELROY-No.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Then how are they going to get access if
you're going to deed this away?
MR. MACELROY-It appears that that easement, 6-3-15.3 is the
access to the Repinski's, but it's not. The Repinski access is
through that area, and they have no deeded rights to that.
MR. STEWART-That's right. We have researched that. They have no
legal rights to it, and they have never used OVer the years.
They come in from a different direction.
MR. MACELROY-The reason it comes and butts against that, it's
access for 18, for Burnham. That access feeds Burnham as well.
That's why it comes and butts up there. It's a natural question,
everybody asks it, but it's not an access.
MR. CARVIN-What is there, just a,dock here?
MR. MACELROY-No. I don't know what the history of that is, but
it's the same owner. This owner is the same for that parcel and
that parcel, and it's effectively combined. It exists as two
separate parcels, it's my understanding. It shows that way on
the tax maps, but it's effectively one parcel with that owner.
Again, I don't know the history of that, but it's (lost word).
MR. STEWART-We are not attempting to cut anybody
access, nor is anything here before this Board
would have that effect at all.
off from any
seeking, that
MR. CARVIN-So that's not going to be a problem then?
MR. STEWART-No.
MR. FORD-Structurally, the basement is, what?
MR. MACELROY-There's no basement on that. It's on piers.
MR. KARPELES-How about the new house. Is there any basement on
that?
MR. MACELROY-No. There wouldn~t be a, again, I can't speak for
the architect. I'm not certain, but knowing the area, there
would will not be any kind of full basement. There'd be some
kind of footings, and a foundation wall obviously, but a crawl
space type arrangement.
MR. FORD-If this picture is not an accurate representation of the
trees to remain, then is this plot plan accurate?
MR. MACELROY-Correct. That's a representation of the vegetation
that exists, the significant vegetation that exists within the 35
feet jurisdictional area.
MR. FORD-And which would continue to
here now, that tree will remain there,
exist? If we see a
is that accurate?
tree
MR. MACELROY-Right. That's in accordance with the Ordinance, but
I would say that the Ordinance also allows for an alternative
planting plan, subject to site plan review.
MR. STEWART-Your Ordinance provides that an owner can meet with
the Planning Board and discuss with them some cutting to give him
access to a leach area. The cutting cannot be more than 20
- 40 -
percent of the total trees that are there, to give them this
corridor or access to the beach area, and whatever he does has to
be done under the supervision and approval of the Planning Board,
and whether or not somewhere along the line that would be
appropriate, I don't want to tell you yes or no on that, but I
will say that 80 percent or more of those trees are going to stay
there because they shade the site to give you seclusion and the
law requires it. It isn't something that we have a great of
flexibility on, but I don't want to represent that every single
tree will be there, because that wouldn't be an honest answer to
your question.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
gentlemen? Okay.
Any other questions of the applicant,
I'll open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
SHARON DAVIES
MRS. DAVIES-I'd just like to say, I'm Sharon Davies, from Owen
Davies Real Estate, and I've shown the property many, many times.
I feel this buyer has one of the nicest plans. I mean, there
were some families, three families couldn't buy that. Many
people wanted to keep the lot separate. Some people thought
about remodeling the house, but were going to enlarge it. The
house is on piers and has some structural problems. $0 it takes
a great deal of money just to consider remodeling it. I just
feel this is a very good alternative for this property, to have
all the lots combined into one lot.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?
FLORENCE CONNOR
MRS. CONNOR-I'm not really in opposition. I just have some
questions. I'm Florence Connor, and I also live on Assembly
Point Road. I want to say, it's not on the west side. It's on
the east side. So you have it marked right. You have it down on
the west side. Assembly Point's on the east side. First of all,
I'm concerned, when I looked at that plan, that there's so much
blacktop, and I don't know if this is a Zoning or a Planning
Board. I don't like to see so much blacktop near the lake. I
would rather see gravel or something. So I'd like you to
consider the amount of blacktop that goes up toward the house, up
toward the storage shed, and also I feel that, in the long run,
there'll probably be blacktop going down to the Burnham house,
too, because they'll want bring things in and out of there. That
was one concern. The other concern I had is, is the storage
house going to remain a storage house, or is there a possibility
that some day that will turn into a cottage, because that seems
to be what happens over on Assembly Point. Someone has a garage,
and all of a sudden it's a house and it's rented. I don't mind a
rental. I just don't like to see more and more cottages being
built. The Burnham cottage, again, I was glad to hear it
mentioned that there would need to be maybe a new septic system
there, because if they enlarge the house, it's a one bedroom
house now, and if it becomes larger, and I think that a septic
system should be considered in that area, since it will be, the
land will be changed in a way and it's a good time to put in
something new there. I also am very concerned that we have a lot
of wet area over in that, not particularly on that property, I'm
not saying, but I know over just across the Brayton Lane road is
very wet, and I'm concerned that this summer is so dry that
anything ~t.Jould come up with a perc test as being proper, v-Jhere
another day, another spring might be totally different. So I
think you need to take into consideration the weather we've had
this summer. The other thing, when you speak of dock area, if
this man has so many boats, or this family has so many boats, are
they allowed to have more than three boats on their residence,
and will they be building new dock area? I think that's
- 41 -
something, also, that needs to be considered, whether it's today,
or I'm not sure how you work it, when that would be discussed,
but those are my three things. The thing is, I feel the house is
also very tall, but again, I don't know as it imposes on the
neighborhood. It just is tall compared to the houses that are
adjacent to it, toward the west. Toward the east, there have
been a couple of very tall houses built, but toward the west the
houses are all pretty lov-, and most of them are more cottages,
but again, I don't have a problem with (lost word) house in the
neighborhood.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?
TOM NESBITT
MR. NESBITT-My name is Tom Nesbitt, and I am an owner of a right-
of-way that's to the west of this site, but I'm also representing
m)' sister, Sally Carey, who is a neighbor immediately to the east
of this site. I'd like to first ask, is this an application
simply for a variance from the setback, ratheT than anything else
to do with the project?
MR. CARVIN-It's primarily for setback, yes, and
structures.
principal
MR. FORD-Two principal structures on less than two acres.
MR. NESBITT-Well, firstly, I don't have a problem with those
issues. However, there are some others that are of greater
concern, that I think that you would be well advised to recommend
site plan review. First of all, the septic system that they
propose for the four bedrooms is in a high rocky area. It's also
probably within a wetland that was flagged for the Youngs on the
south side of Brayton Lane, and there is a very low wet pocket
right where the driveway and Brayton Lane meet, which has
resulted from the build up of Bray~on Lane by the Town of
Queensbury and its maintenance. It was never always wet there,
but it has been wet there for the last 10 years or so because the
water cannot drain out of there, and it has created a wetland.
Also, to the northeast of the proposed system, and in the
vicinity of the proposed storage building, there is also a
wetland pocket, and I know that there's wetland vegetation
growing in that area, and it drains toward the north, toward the
Repinski's land, and at one time Mr. Wallace wanted to put a
driveway across the back of the Repinski property, but I gather
he decided not to because it would have cost too much money to
fill it in, and also if he would have gone across the low wet
area, it would have caused some drainage problems, and also the
proposed septic system is within 200 feet of my sister's water
well, which serves as her drinking, I know the setback is only
100 feet, but with a big mound system like that, that's going to
be required, there's going to be a significant amount of
clearing, so that that system can be built correctly, and the
nature of that property is all wooded, and one of the reasons I
understood Mr. Wallace purchased that property was to provide a
wooded buffer for the rest of their land, but I have no
disagreement with the proposed use, except that in the process of
developing it, there will be some significant vegetation removed,
that has to be, and the actual amount of square footage of
clearing doesn't show on there because it simply shows the tile
fields, but because of the nature of the slope of the land, there
will be substantial fill, and it'll encompass a relatively large
square footage of area, and the other question was previously
answered about the septic system for that Burnham camp, and the
other question Mrs. Connor brought up about potential conversion
of the storage or carriage house into residential use at some
point in the future. A 36' by 48' building is certainly large
enough to put some kind of an apartment up over it, not that I'm
suggesting that Mr. Cantanucci would do that, but some future
occupant might, and previous experience, there hasn't been
- 42 -
significant follow up in stipulations in the granting of
variances up in that area, and I'm hoping that there will be, at
least follow through on any conditions that are placed on
variances. Thank you.
SALLY CAREY
MS. CAREY-I'm Sally Carey, that Tom has represented. First of
all, I'm very impressed with the building. I think it's great.
Our only concern is what happens on the back side of the
property, since we're adjacent to it. When the proposed driveway
that is to go into Brayton Lane is built, right now, as my
brother stated, there's quite a pocket that fills up in the
spring. You can see the staining on the rocks from that, that
exists. That water now, when it reaches the point of Brayton
Lane, the level of Brayton Lane, it flows down Brayton Lane, into
the lake, across property that Tom and lawn, which is adjacent
to the Young and Hall's property. It's a 15 foot strip of access
to the lake, and so the lake receives drainage now from that
pocket of wetland, and that's it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Any correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. A letter dated September 20, 1995, regarding
application for Michael Cantanucci, "The purpose of this letter
is to support the application of Michael Cantanucci to Board of
Zoning Appeals. I am the Trustee of the John Wallace Trust,
owner of three of the four subject parcels of this application.
The proposal before the Board of Zoning Appeals is consistent
with what the beneficiaries of the John Wallace Trust intended
when the present property configuration was created in 1993 and
put on the market. The purpose of the 1993 property
configuration was to sort out an intermingled pattern of holdings
owned by the John Wallace Trust and my relatives. This
checkerboard constrained options concerning use, bequest, and
sale of these properties. The consolidation essentially created
two areas of ownership: the eastern group of parcels, owned
primarily by the John Wallace Trust but also including a parcel
owned by my cousin's wife, Glenna Burnham; and the western group
of parcels, owned by my aunt, Gertrude Young, and her children.
Mr. Cantanucci is buying the eastern group of parcels. Both the
eastern and western groups of parcels were designed to be as
independent as possible in terms of privacy, setbacks, lakefront
access, driveway access, and septic capability. The clearly
stated and understood purpose for creating this configuration was
to secure the independent viability of each of the groups. This
maximized the freedom of each owner to use and/or sell their
holdings. The application of Mr. Cantanucci before the Zoning
Board of Appeals is consistent with the zoning of Queensbury,
seeking minimal relief. We believe the consolidation of use on
this site from four residential structures to single ownership,
the upgrade of septic disposal, and the overall sensitivity of
the design to the site all enhance the value of this and abutting
properties. We therefore enthusiastically support the
application and urge your approval. Sincerely, James H. Wallace
Trustee, John Wallace Trust" A letter dated 9/18/95, subject
Area Variance No. 63-1995, Michael Cantanucci "Carolyn and
myself have reviewed the proposed site plan and are in agreement
that it would be beneficial to the area and property owners
nearby. It appears to be environmentally protective of the area
including the lake. Sincerely, Joseph W. Shay for Carolyn Shay"
A letter dated September 17, 1995, To the Town of Queensbury
Zoning Board of Appeals, Re: Michael Cantanucci Variance request
I reside at R.R.#l Box 1368, Lake George, NY, and have executed
a contract for the purchase of (#6-3-21) the lands of Michael &
Miriam Rapaport, Brayton Lane, Lake George, N.Y. I have reviewed
the plans for the proposed site by Environmental Design on Sept.
17, 1995. I support the project and the consolidation of lots.
Certainly, the removal of some of the buildings and the routing
of the septic will benefit the lake and neighbors. Very truly
- 43 -
-
yours, Michael Grasso" That's it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other public comment?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Gentlemen, any questions, comments?
MR. KARPELES-Do you show the permeability on here, anywhere?
MR. THOMAS-Yes, it does, on the black and white one, down in the
lower left hand corner. The lot coverage is 8.7 percent. The
paved area drive is 9.9 percent, and the green area is 81.4
percent. That's lot coverage, so that would be the green space.
MS. CIPPERLY-I also figured out the floor area ratio, just out of
curiosity, for square footage of the new house, the boat storage
building, the existing boat house, and the expanded guest
cottage, and it comes to 10 percent, and that large lot really
helps bring down the percentage.
MR. CARVIN-Sue, I have a question. If this was t~",o acres, ~'ould
they be allowed two principal residences?
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-So they're.
MS. CIPPERLY-It's like a tenth of an acre.
MR. CARVIN-A tenth of an acre short.
MR. GREEN-And if they did have the two acres, they could have the
two buildings without that variance.
MS. CIPPERlY-Right.
MR. CARVIN-Well, at this point, you only have, really, what, one
principal building, and the Burnham house, when that one gets
converted, is that the second principal residence that you're
looking for? Okay. How about the boathouse that's existing,
that two story boathouse. What kind of modifications or
upgrading is going to occur there?
MR. STEWART-I think some change of the siting might blend that
with the new house.
MR. MACELROY-Cosmetic, primarily, siding, roofing, windows, to
match the design of the new main structure.
MR. CARVIN-All right, because that does have a second story,
which, from my observation is basically being used as a game room
at this point. Is there an)' anticipated plans of ~",interizing
that building, making the upstairs a ')-'ea)" )"ound use?
MR. STEl.JART-No.
MR. FORD-Are there toilet facilities in that structure now?
MR. MACELROY-The boathouse? No.
MR. STEWART-And in answer to the question about, at some time in
the future the storage building being maybe converted to an
apartment. Well, perhaps the lady who raised it doesn't know it,
but this Board knows that no such thing could be done without the
owner having to come to this Board and ask permission, and it
would probably be a short trip, but we have absolutely no
intention of ever doing that. That's not in anybody's mind. We
want the Board to know that, and even if it was, I think our
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-...-/
chances of ever doing it would be pretty bleak. I can't see us
coming back asking for a third house on this property.
MR. GREEN-I've got a question for Sue.
between a garage and a carriage house?
What's the difference
MS. CIPPERLY-That's the applicant's term.
MacElroy about what the intent was, as far
building, and it is a boat storage, primarily.
I questioned Mr.
as use of that
MR. GREEN-Don't we have a 900 square foot restriction on garages?
MS. CIPPERLY-But it is not a garage.
MR. GREEN-Well, that's my thought, is what is the difference
between a garage and a carriage house, because this is 1700.
MS. CIPPERLY-The garage, on this application, it shows a 600
square foot garage that goes with the house, and in our
definitions, a garage is for, currently at least, a garage is for
the storage of automobiles. In this zone, you can also have a
private boat storage building, which is what this carriage house.
MR. GREEN-Is there a size limitation to that?
MS. CIPPERLY-No.
MR. CARVIN-But he already has a boat house.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, you folks can discuss that.
MR. STEWART-Your Ordinance allows certain accessory or ancillary
uses, and a boathouse is one, private boat storage building is
separate, one for summer and one for winter, because in the
winter, these boats are so expensive, if you kept them in a
boathouse (lost word) the boathouse out.
MR. FORD-How many boats are we talking about?
MR. STEWART-Two or three boats.
JAMES WALLACE
MR. WALLACE-I have one boat. My father has a boat. The storage
building is just for winter storage. It would never be converted
to an apartment.
MR. CARVIN-And you can't utilize that boathouse down on the lake?
MR. WALLACE-Not for winter storage, no.
MR. CARVIN-Why not?
MR. WALLACE-The height. There's not enough room to bring the
boat out of the water, because of the roof, and, structurally,
I'm not sure that it's built to support that kind of weight, to
store two boats out of the water.
MR. CARVIN-How big of a boat are we talking, here?
MR. WALLACE-My boat is 25 feet and my father's boat is 20 feet.
MR. CARVIN-And how high are these boats? They can't be more
than, have they got a Bimini bridge or something?
MR. WALLACE-Well, the second story of this game room that you
call it, it has a low ceiling than a boathouse. So, to take it
out of the water level, the ceiling height interferes with the
height necessary to hoist a boat out of the water, and the docks
that are on either side, I don't believe are strong enough to
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support the weight of two boats.
MR. STEWART-In that connection, maybe I can tell a little bit,
because I hoist my own boats. You have to raise a boat high
enough toward the ceiling so that you can put six by six support
beams under it, and those rest on the piers on either side of the
slip or the open water, and you've got to get the boat up higher
than that, get the beams in and lower it back down. If this
boathouse didn't have a second floor, you'd have plenty of play,
but with a ceiling in it, which is the floor of the second floor,
that's a real problem, because you can't get it high enough.
MR. CARVIN-Well, wouldn't it be cheaper to refurbish the existing
boathouse, as opposed to building a whole new one?
MR. STEWART-Well, one of the problems you have is, Number One,
working on the boat. If you're going to work on the boat and
you're changing oil, yoU want clean (lost words), things of that
nature, you don't want any of that to get in the water,
obviously, that's illegal. If you want to do any work in the
winter time, it's hard to get at it, and you have a danger
factor, because ice on Lake George represents a real threat. If
it were to take the boat house, you could lose your boat. Some
people keep their boats in the boathouse, but I'd say probably
the majority do not for that reason.
MR. WALLACE-Also, there's no basement in the home.
building would also serve as storage space.
So that
MS. CIPPERLY-One point to be made, as information, is that, in
the Definitions, Boathouse, there's a definition for Boathouse,
and there's a definition for Boat Storage, Private. The
Boathouse, it says, "A structure that has direct access to a body
of navigable water and: (1)ls used for storage of vessels and
associated equipment; and (2) Does not have bathroom or kitchen
facilities and is not designed or used for lodging or residency."
Boat Storage, Private is, "A place, site or structure used to
park, house or store, on anyone (1) lot, three (3) or fewer
vessels, except canoes, rowboats and sailboats under eighteen
(18) feet, owned by the property owner." There was one person, I
think, expressed a concern about whether the space might be
rented, and in the definition it states that the boats would have
to be owned by the property owner, but there are two different
definitions for those two different structures.
MR. STEWART-And the zone allows for one of each.
MR. GREEN-I didn't have a real problem with the other building, I
just, last month we had a real go around about a 1200 foot
garage, and this, to me, looks like a 1700 foot garage.
MR. CARVIN-I agree. Yes. I think we're coming back to the same
issues over and over again.
MR. GREEN-But if we can technically call it a Boat Storage
building.
MR. CARVIN-I think we're just splitting hairs. I mean, lets call
it what it is.
MR. GREEN-Well, I don't know if we're splitting hairs, but if the
Code, you know, lists it as something that you can call a
building.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, it's a storage building, rather than a garage.
I don't think the intent is to put automobiles in it.
MR. STEWART-No. It's our understanding we cannot.
MS. CIPPERLY-And when, Fred, you brought this up before. All the
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references to boathouses are in under the shoreline regulations.
So I had always associated boathouses with a dock structure,
rather than an on land.
MR. GREEN-Even with that building, we're still, what, 10 percent
you said.
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes, and I figured 1,000 square feet for the
existing boathouse that's on the water. It's 20 by 50,
approximately. I didn't put in a second story, but that's still
only another 1,000 square feet. I didn't quite know how to
figure the square footage of a boat house, because there's water
in there.
MR. GREEN-Well, listening to the comments here, it seems like
most of the people are not necessarily concerned with the
building itself, which is what really kind of strikes me, but
more of the runoff and the sewage and the wetlands and things of
that sort that I guess the Planning Board should probably address
better than us. I'm just a little concerned with, I guess the
size and the height, but I haven't made a real fine decision.
MS. CIPPERLY-Do you have a figure for the height of the very
front part? It's got to be more than one story. There weren't
any measurements on the drawing, of the proposed house.
MR. MACELROY-Sue, I don't
architect, but it's between
that is the lowest point
total height.
have the specific figure from the
the range of a story and a half, and
of grade which was measured for the
MR. STEWART-Incidentally, on that point, some of the photographs
that I passed around earlier showed some quite tall buildings,
and here's one right nearby. It would appear to be as high, if
not higher, than what we are proposing here. This is not novel
to the neighborhood. Some of those lovely old camps were pretty
big and pretty high, some of them.
MR. FORD-But we don't know what the height of this is proposed to
be?
MR. STEWART-Yes. We know. The height is 35 feet, that's
allowed, and this is going to be 33 at its highest point.
MR. CARVIN-And that's at the widow's peak.
MR. STEWART-At the very peak. So we're under the allowable
limit, but in terms of comparing ourselves with the neighbors, I
didn't go over, I have no way of measuring this house, but some
of these houses in that general area are pretty good size houses.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Thank you, Bill. How about you, Chris?
MR. THOMAS-My only concern, really, was that boat storage, and
like Bill said, from that variance last month up on Glen Lake,
going back and forth, but since it's been explained by Sue,
again.
MR. GREEN-If it's a separate listed structure other than garage,
then I don't think we can argue about it.
MR. THOMAS-No, I don't think we can either, Bill.
MR. GREEN-I don't think we can make that determination. If it's
a listed use, a listed accessory structure, then I don't think we
can call it a garage, if the applicant is calling it a carriage
house.
MR. THOMAS-Are we going to send this over to the Planning Board
before we make a decision?
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MR. FORD-I think it's prime for that.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. To establish wetlands.
MR. THOMAS-Wetlands, drainage.
MR. STEWART-Mr. Çhairman, we certainly have no objection to going
before the Planning Board and having them review all of the
technical and site preparations, but I would hate to see this
Board's approval be held in abeyance, a lot of time has gone by.
We have a mor~gage commitment to purchase this property that's
about ready to expire. There are certain pressures here to,
where the potential buyer needs to know where he stands.
MR. CARVIN-How about you, Dave?
MR. MENTER-Well, I think I would like to see the size and
location issue addressed a little bit more. Mr. MacElroy, what
consideration was there in trying to get this thing to meet
setback? I mean, did yoU actually start from that point and say,
gee, we just can't do it? How much concession do you need to
make in terms of size to meet the required setbacks?
MR. MACELROY-The structure as proposed, we've moved it back as
far as possible \I.¡ithout violating the side setback. vJe're
increasing that front setback to 50 foot minimum, and because of
the configuration of the lot, it's obviously an unusually shaped
lot. The more you push that back, you get into other setback
violations, in terms of side yard. It's placed basically at 25
foot from either side setback. So it would conform to that
point, seeking relief from the front.
MR. MENTER-With that particular building.
MR. MACELROY-Correct.
MR. MENTER-Was any consideration given
configuration of structure?
to any
different
MR. MACELROY-I would say to some extent, and I would sort of pass
off to the architect, the footprint and shape of the house and
whatnot is not my area, decision, but certainly Mr. Cantanucci
and his architect have spent a great deal of time trying to come
up with a footprint to satisfy the need for the space
requirements, and to the extent possible, the configuration of
the lot.
MR. WALLACE-If I could say something. We also tried to design
the house with visual impact from the water in mind. If yoU look
at the rendering that you have there, the bulk of the house goes
away from the water in the rear, which moves it toward that
narrow neck section of the lot. The image of this house from the
water would not be big and atrocious like some other structures
that I've seen up there, and we tried to be sensitive to that in
the design. If you look at the footprint of the house, you'll
see that the bulk of the living space occurs away from the water,
tOll-lard the rear.
MR. STEWART-And one comment I might add to that. If you try to
reduce the footprint so that you can squeeze the house back a
little bit, then to get the necessary living space, you've got to
go up higher with the entire house, and that I don't think the
architect wanted to do, and I sense this Board doesn't really
want to do it. You don't want a lot of bulk down there by the
shore front. You want to minimize it, and I think this plan has
done that, while if you make them go higher, from front to back,
to get the four bedrooms in, you're not serving your own purpose,
perhaps.
MR. MENTER-I am sensitive to the configuration of the lot, but my
- 48 -
big concern is, as Mr. Cantanucci said, is the appearance, or ä
big concern is the appearance from the lake. Because like you
said, there's some real monsters up there that are just terrible.
MR. WALLACE-I don't think this one will fall into that category.
MR. STEWART-I don't know if any of you had the opportunity as it
is now by boat. I did this morning, and literally you can hardly
see the existing house, which is 32 feet from the lake, because
there are the trees there, and I can't put them in this diagram.
I wish I could, but if you were to see them from the lake, that's
quite heavily wooded along that shore frontage, and this house is
not going to jump out at you.
MS. CIPPERLY-One question I had was, I see where the front line
of the house is, but could you explain the shape that, is that a
deck or a porch or patio?
MR. MACELROY-Did you see the rendering, Sue?
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes, I did, and it looked like a, and then there's a
stone, it looked like a raised stone terrace.
MR. WALLACE-That's like a patio, I guess.
MR. CARVIN-Tom, do you have any thoughts?
MR. FORD-Yes. I was really impressed with the idea of the septic
system so far back from the structure and the lake, until I heard
about the wetland consideration.
MR. STEWART-We're not in any wetlands, Mr. Ford, and this has
been examined by engineers and by experts as required by the
Health Department.
MR. FORD-According to this, you're right across the road from
there.
MR. STEWART-Yes, but there's no wetlands on this property.
MR. FORD-Not on that property, but you're coming in awfully close
to it as you move the septic system back and very close to that.
MR. STEWART-Well, you're hundreds of feet back on that scale, and
we're well within the requirements of New York State Department
of Health as far as our separation from wetlands are concerned.
That scale may be a little bit deceiving on that sketch, but
that's quite a distance back.
MR. CARVIN-You're probably looking at half, three quarters of an
acre there.
MR. STEWART-No, it's more than that, I think one inch is, I'm not
sure, because I don't have a scale.
MR. FORD-I see, when we have a new structure, we have a new
opportunity to comply with setbacks, and I would rather grant
side setbacks than I would setback relief from the lakeshore.
MR. STEWART-I can understand your philosophy. One question ~
would have about it is this. A side setback, in this particular
situation, is going to impact on the neighbor who owns that
adjacent side lot, and the rear, the setback from the lakefront
in this particular case is not going to, because we are farther
back from the lake than most of our neighbors. So if we're
granted any relief there, it's not going to injure them. They're
up closer to the lake then we are. They would interfere \;-i th Q.YL
view, not us interfering with theirs, but if you skimp on the
side setback, then you are coming in on them.
- 49 -
MR. FORD-Could you
designated wetland,
the property, or very
your perspective?
address the issue of not the official, APA
but the other depressions, or whatever, on
close to it? How significant is that, from
MR. MACELROY-You're speaking of the wet area on the applicant's
parcel?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. MACELROY-Well, there's no question that there's som<? drainage
movement through that area. Historically, there are wet times of
the year in lower sections of that. The drainage problem caused
by Brayton Lane I'm not totally familiar with, but if that's a
drainage problem that's associated with the Town Highway, then
there's some responsibility there as well. Perhaps in
construction of a driveway or whatever, that could be assisted in
this case. The location of the proposed septic system, as we
have done test pits and perc tests in accordance with the Town of
Queensbury Sanitary Code, Charlie Main, who is a recognized Soil
Scientist, was on the site to review soil mottling, which is the
indication of high seasonal groundwater. These test pits were
done in AUgust of the year. So we've complied with the Town
standards. There are areas that indicate, we did quite a number
of test pits on the site. There are areas that indicated
mottling which was not in compliance with the Town regulations.
We have found an area that is above the lower area that has been
spoken of. So, I'm confident that the area that the septic
system is designed in is in compliance with the regulations, and
it would be a raised system, in accordance "lith the definition of
the Town's standards. There would be perhaps one to three feet
of fill in a sloped area. It's a fairly standard design. It's
not a sophisticated mound system, which is another level of
detail and design. It would be pumped from the house area back
to that, the pressure distribution, so that, in terms of design,
I think. I had contacted the Town Building Department, John
O'Brien. The Building Department was on site for a period of
time while the septic was being excavated. So he's certainly
aware of the site and area and the results that we obtained.
MR. FORD-Is there any way, with all of the
brought to bear on this, of extrapolating
might be the impact of this system during
not be as dryas this one has been?
expertise that you've
and projecting what
a summer which would
MR. MACELROY-Well, I don't know any different than another
location that had a properly designed septic sy~tem. Effluent
leaches into the ground, eventually reaches the groundwater
column, but by the separation, horizontal and vertical separation
distances required of the standards, the adequate treatment and
purification of wastewater and effluent should have taken place.
So, I can't tell you that you could go and monitor that any
differently than any other septic system. I don't know how to do
it other than that.
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MS. CIPPERLY-One question I just came up with, this Burnham camp,
would that be a guest cottage, or would it be for year round, or
whatever, full time occupancy by?
MR. WALLACE-It's a fully equipped house with a kitchen. So it
would not fall under that definition of guest cottage.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, what I'm wondering is, is everybody going to
mainly live in the house, and this would be for use by people who
came to visit, or is this second dwelling planned to be used by
the parents?
MR. WALLACE-People who came to visit.
- 50 -
MS. CIPPERLY-Okay, because that has some bearing on the septic
question, also.
MR. CARVIN-I think it has a lot of bearing on the whole
application, because, I mean, in the past, we have tried to move
residences back from the lake, and I think you guys are just
walking away from that. I think, why the need for two main,
you've got a 4,000 square foot house, and you want a second
residence in the Burnham, and we're not even addressing that
issue. I mean, are we going to move that one back 75 feet? I'm
assuming that eventually that's going to be torn down. Is that
correct?
MR. STEWART-No. The Burnham one is going to stay.
second principal residence.
That's the
MR. CARVIN-Yes, I realize that, but is that going to be
refu)"bished?
MR. STEWART-It's going to be refurbished, not torn down.
MR. CARVIN-In other words, you're going to stay within the
existing structure as it is right now. It's not going to be torn
down completely then?
MR. WALLACE-That's correct, with a separate septic system.
MS. CIPPERLY-Another thing that I did discuss with Dennis here is
that if that were kept on its own parcel, it would still have a
right to be there, but it's actually better, in terms of running
a new septic and setbacks. I did say, if you were to expand, it
would probably be a situation like the, I believe you said it
already has a loft in it, Dennis, the guest house already has a
loft?
MR. MACELROY-It has, I believe, a cathedral type ceiling in one
portion of it.
MS. CIPPERLY-It seemed like an expansion kind of like the
Takundewide cottage that just put dormers and a different roof
pitch. That would be subject to at least Planning Board review,
also.
MR. KARPELES-I think it's beautiful. I think they've given this
a lot of thought. I think they've done a good job. They've
moved it back away from the lake as far as practical, as far as 1
can see. I'd sure hate to see us screw it up. The only things
the neighbors are concerned about, they're not concerned about
the appearance of the house. They're concerned about the things
that aren't our jurisdiction anyway, and if they're not concerned
about it, why should we be concerned about it?
MR. MENTER-I think it's a nice project
reservation I would have might be the fact
could increase the setback by making some
really considered the proximity to the
structure, looked at it quite that way.
also, but the only
that it could be, it
changes, and I hadn't
lake of the second
MR. GREEN-But do we have any say in that?
MR. CARVIN-Sure, we do.
MR. KARPELES-That structure's already there.
MR. GREEN-Only in the sense that we're short a tenth of an acre.
MR. MENTER-Well, only in the sense that it's all tied in to the
same property.
MR. CARVIN-He could tear that one down and build a big house.
- 51 -
That way he's in compliance.
MR. MENTER-Right. It's a question of compliance, and all the
things you have to consider, but for me the only issue might be
really the location of the new structure, and I do see that it is
substantially pushed back, and I think even the design of the
structure, the shape of it is such so that it enhances the area.
It doesn't encroach on the neighbors. I understand that, too.
Other than that, I think it's a good project.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I don't know. I have a hard time with this
one, I think. I don't have one bit of problem with the house. I
don't have a real problem with the setback of the house back the
50 feet or so. I do have a problem, I think you've got a huge
boathouse that we're building back. The mitigating
circumstances, this is just a fraction under two acres. So it's
not like we're trying to cram a huge building on a quarter acre
lot. So, I mean, I think it probably would fit the character of
the neighborhood. I guess I do have a problem with that second
camp, that second residence. I just think that we've got a belts
and suspenders situation here. I don't think the applicant has
proven to me the need for two primary residences on this lot.
MR. STEWART-May I try to answer that partially? The economics it
is, if someone buys this lot, they have to buy and pay for the
second house. It's there, and the seller obviously wants (lost
words). If this Board were to require that owner, whoever he or
she might be, now the cost of this project is starting to get out
of sight. If you price the project out of sight, then you're
going to price it back to the cheap approach, and the cheap
~pp'(oach Ü;;¡:90in9 to be, I would think, leave that camp up,.and
fix it. Sell the, existipgl0,t. ,It's legal. ' It,~s ~alable
because it's a pre-existing lot, with its existing septic system,
and let that one stay. Turn to the main camp, which is only 32
feet from the lake. On that one you can, again, a pre-existing,
legal lot. You can re-build that. You can enhance it. You can
enlarge it to the rear, to larger than this house is, without
even having to come and ask for a variance before this Board, and
you're back to the ticky tack, little tiny lots. If you force
that, and you can do that economically, if you tell the person
who wants to come an improve it, on making it one lot, building a
new home, but if you tell me you've got to start tearing down
valuable buildings, and you price it out of his reach, then it
seems to me.
MR. ,CA,RVIN-When was the Bur nham ; bui It?
MS. CIPPERLY-1903.
MR. CARVIN-1903? I mean, it looks like it's a two family thing,
if it's the building that I'm looking at, or two doors.
MICHAEL CANTANUCCI
MR. CANTANUCCI-One thing you should know. I come from a family
of nine, and my brothers and sisters, I want to have a place for
them to come and stay when they come up to visit. That's the
purpose for it. I'm not looking for a second residence. It's a
guest house. So when my family come up and visit me, I can offer
them a place to stay.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I understand where you're coming from, but I
also know that we're taking an 1800 square foot current camp and
turning it into a 4,000 square foot, four bedroom.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, the Assessor's Office considers living space
and doesn't consider things like screened porches. I mean,
there's a difference between footprints and living space.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, well, again, as I said, I know that for the lack
,- 52 -
-
of a tenth of an acre, you could have the two residences, but the
other side that I know that the Board has tried to maintain is
that whenever we can, we try to move the existing structures
back.
MR. CANTANUCCI-But we're also trying to be up front and merge all
the parcels into one, to clean it up. There's two ways of
playing the game, and we're not trying to play the game.
MR. STEWART-There's one other point. I may have said it too fast
when I went through my initial presentation. There's a third
principal building on this property now that we are tearing down
and not replacing, that also is on its own lot and could be sold
and continued. You may have lost sight of that in the process.
There's a lot of cleaning up and tiding up being done on this.
MS. CIPPERLY-They're also tearing down that little bunk house.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
ask for a motion.
Any other questions, gentlemen? If not, I'd
Do yoU want to do the SEQRA first?
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes. I don't know what your intent is, as far as
sending this to the Planning Board, but if you decide to send
that to the Planning Board for site plan review, then it could be
that they would, well, I guess they would just use your SECRA
determination. I was just trying to figure that out.
MR. STEWART-Yes. I think the SEQRA determination would have to
come from this Board.
MOTION THAT WE HAVE CONDUCTED A FULL ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
FORM AND IT HAS DISCLOSED NO NEGATIVE IMPACT, Introduced by Fred
Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by David Menter:
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
MR. CARVIN-All right.
application.
I would ask for a motion on the
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 63-1995 MICHAEL CANTANUCCI,
Introduced by David Menter who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Robert Karpeles:
On Brayton Lane, Assembly Point. Applicant proposes to combine 4
properties to create a 1.9 acre lot. The lots currently contain
four residential structures, two of which are proposed to be
removed, one razed and replaced, and one modified in the future.
Section 179-16C, Waterfront Residential, requires one acre per
principal building; Section 179-12 states that there shall be no
more than one principal building in a residential zone on any
single lot less than two acres in size, so relief is required
from these sections. Applicant proposes to raze an existing camp
set back 32 feet from the shoreline, and replace it with a 4,000
square foot house and 600 square foot garage set back 50 feet
from the shoreline, so relief is needed from the 75-foot
shoreline setback required in Section 179-60. The benefit to the
applicant in this project would be that he would be able to build
a structure large enough for his personal needs and also large
enough to make it feasible to go through the expense of combining
these single smaller properties into a larger one. The only
alternative to the project as presented appears to be to downsize
the proposed house in order to move it back, but the unique
configuration of these accumulated properties make even that
difficult because it narrows toward the middle, immediately
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behind where that proposed house lS. The relief of 33 percent of
the required setback may seem substantial, but there is an
increase in setback from 18 to 20 feet, which is certainly an
improvement. There were no negative statements from neighbors
regarding the proposed structure itself. There were several
comments expressing concern about the septic and wetlands that
are part of the property, which will be addressed at site plan
review in the future. The difficulty, while may be seen as being
self-created, is actually the result of an effort of trying to
incorporate several lots. Thereby ending up with a uniquely
shaped lot which imposes limitations on building on it. I would
also make part of this motion that this project go to the
Planning Board for site plan review, to review septic issues,
runoff issues and other relevant site issues. This is an
Unlisted Action, making it a Type I. We have reviewed the SEQRA
and found there to be no impact. One stipulation to this
granting would be the height of the building not exceed 33 feet.
Relief from Section 179-16C for one-tenth of an acre, and also
Section 179-12, for one-tenth of an acre. Relief of 25 feet is
also granted from Section 179-60, which requires a 75 foot
shoreline setback. It is also stipulated that the proposed
structure wil.l adhere as closely as possible in both structure
and exterior appearance as the artist's rendering that was
submitted as part of this application. We also stipulate that
neither the proposed boat storage facility nor the existing
boathouse be used in any way to increase living space on the
property.
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Green
NOES: Mr. Carvin
MR. CARVIN-All right. Is there
presented before the Board? Okay.
before the Board, gentlemen. We
some additional information to the
any other business to be
We have another issue to come
have someone who is bringing
Boa)"d.
RAY WOOD
MR. WOOD-Hi. I'm Ray Wood. I'm here to talk about the Harding
case. On that letter from the contractor on the Hardings issue
there, in there it says an officer from the Company came and
talked to me and my neighbor about the planning and the deck and
eve~ything. Nobody from this company ever came and talked to me.
Like I said, when I came home from work that day, the deck was
there, and the thing was, Mr. Harding and me were supposed to
come to an agreement within 60 days. The man wouldn't talk to
me. I've tried on three different occasions, and he just walks
away from me, and then I come here tonight and I heard that he
wants a postponement or something. I just don't understand that.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Did we or do we have any written correspondence
from this particular applicant requesting a furtherance of the
table?
I "
MS,.CIPPERL Y,-L4,e~l , ,Jim ,Martin talked to,Mrs. Harding, ei thar late
last week or the beginning of this week and told her she needed
to get a letter in if she wanted to extend the tabling. I don't
know if this was her response, but we received this in the mail
like the next day, a copy to us, and in addition to whatever the
neighbor's experience has been, I think it's the first paragraph
on the second page says they applied for and received building
permits from the Town, which is also a falsehood. So they did
apply for a building permit. That's when we found they needed a
variance, and no permits were ever granted. I think in view of
Mr. Wood's comments, I will have our Compliance person call Mrs.
Harding, because it doesn't sound like they are doing what the
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Board advised them to do.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I guess my question is, I don't remember.
MS. CIPPERLY-You tabled it for 60 days, and we can either make
sure that a letter is here next week requesting an extension of
that tabling, since it is within the same month, or if there's
nothing forthcoming from this woman, we'll just have to treat it
as an enforcement issue, but it doesn't sound as if any progress
has bee n made.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. All right. Well, then I guess you'll get a
hold of them an advise them that we, and that's not a guarantee
that the table will be extended, is that correct?
MS. CIPPERL Y-It's up to you, if you ~t.Jant to extend it or not. If
what Mr. Wood says is an accurate representation of the
situation, then it wouldn't appear that an extension would do any
good.
MR. FORD-We can give them
back with some sort of a
front that it was going
decking, if he won't talk
60 days to come back and talk and come
solution, and we let them know right up
to require some modification in that
with them.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
capable hands.
Then I guess I'll leave it in Planning's
MS. CIPPERLY-I'll have some definite answer for you next week as
far as, we either have a letter or we don't.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and if we don't, then it goes beyond the 60 days
and then it becomes an enforcement issue.
MR. WOOD-Hasn't it been over 60 days already?
63 days.
I thought it was
MR. THOMAS-The meeting date was July 26th.
September 26th. That's 60 days.
They've have until
MR. CARVIN-They've actually got 62 days.
meetings, the 27th and the 28th.
So we've got two
MR. THOMAS-If we don't hear from them by next Wednesday.
MR. WOOD-All right. I just wanted clarification. The way the
contractor had that listed in there, it was like I wouldn't meet
with him.
MR. CARVIN-We appreciate your waiting until ten minutes to
midnight to bring us up to speed, as it were. We have the
DiPalma thing. I think that's the Long Form, too. All right.
I'm going to move that we go into Executive Session to discuss a
legal lawsuit that's been brought against the Zoning Board.
Before we go into Executive Session, we've got to review the
SEQRA Review on Michael DiPalma.
MOTION THAT HAVING REVIEWED THE FULL ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT
FORM, I FIND THAT THERE ARE NO ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS.,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
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MR. CARVIN-Okay. Now we'll go into Executive Session.
MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS A LEGAL L WSUIT
THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT AGAINST THE ZONING BOARD, Introduced b, Fred
Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Karpe'es:
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the fol owing
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, t1r. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
t1r. Carvin
NOES: NONE
MOTION TO COME OUT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION, Introduced b,' Fred
Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Karpe es:
Duly adopted this 20th day of September, 1995, by the fol owing
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Fred Carvin, Chairman
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