1995-02-15
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OR'~INAL
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OUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD O~ APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETiNé' ",
FEBRUARY 15, 1995
INDEX
Sign Variance No. 5-1995 Holly Wheeler 1-
K.D. Wheeler Custom Signs
Area. Variance No. 2--1995 Mc Donald's Corporation 5.
Area Variance No. 6--1995 Craig & Denise Hanchett 15.
Area. Variance No. 7-1995 Barrie Handelman 18.
Area Variance No. 8-1995 Clw isti ne C. Spina 19.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETiNG,
FEBRUARY 15, 1995
7:30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
FRED CARVIN, ACTING CHAIRMAN
CHRIS THOMAS, SECRETARY
DAVID MENTER
ROBERT KARPELES
THOMAS FORD
PLANNER-SUSAN CIPPERLY
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. CARVIN-Before we start, I would like to take just a minute
and extend this Board's heartfelt thanks to Mr. Ted Turner, who
recently has been elevated to the Town Board. I can speak for
myself, Ted, I wish you well in your new endeavor. You are the
person probably most responsible for writing the zoning for the
Town of Queensbury, and a lot of long hours and a lot of years of
service. So, again, I'd like to extend this Board's heartfelt
thanks to you, and good luck.
MR. KARPELES-I'll second that.
MR. CARVIN-It's magnanimous. Okay. The first application is, it
looks like Holly Wheeler, file # 5-1995.
NEW BUSINESS:
SIGN VARIANCE NO. 5-1995 TYPE II SR-IA HOLLY WHEELER K.D.
WHEELER CUSTOM SIGNS OWNER: AMBERSHIRE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOC.
CORNER PITCHER AND AMETHYST ROADS APPLICANT PROPOSES TO INSTALL
A FREESTANDING SIGN. AND CANNOT MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS OF
SECTION 140-6B. SO SEEKS RELIEF FROM THAT SECTION. TAX MAP NO.
125-7-48 LOT SIZE: N/A SECTION 140-6B
HOLLY WHEELER, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Sign Variance No. 5-1995, Holly Wheeler, K.D.
Wheeler Custom Signs, Meeting Date: February 15, 1995
"APPLICANT:_Holly Wheeler PROJECT LOCATION: corner of Pitcher
and Amethyst Roads PROPOSED PROJECT: Applicant proposes to
install a freestanding sign with the name "Ambershire" at the
entrance to the housing development, surrounded by landscaping.
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE: The proposed sign cannot
meet the setback requirements of Section 140-6B, which requires a
fifteen-foot setback from all property lines. STAFF FINDINGS
(Prior to Public Hearing): 1. The lot on which this sign is
proposed to be placed is approximately 26 feet wide at the part
where the sign is proposed to be placed. 2. The proposed angle
appears to be the most effective placement for this sign,
relative to Pitcher Road. 3. The sign is otherwise conforming.
PARCEL HISTORY: This parcel was created at the time of the
Ambershire Subdivision, which received approvals in 1982 and
1986. SEQR: Type II, no further action. STAFF COMMENTS AND
CONCERNS: No further comment."
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
wish to add?
Is the applicant here? Is there anything you
MS. WHEELER-I think that pretty well sums it up. Did everybody
get a chance to look at the property? Those posts are in place.
We put them in the middle of the center, depending on frost,
which there wasn't any. There's basically nothing there. Behind
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it is. Behind it there's a row of trees and bushes
President of the Homeowners Association, Gary Turk, who
wi th today, said t,hat in the summer time it all leafs
the property owners behind it can't see it, and the
quite a distance from the property line.
that the
I spoke
out, and
house is
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Does anybody on the Board have any questions?
Okay. No questions? Then I will open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. KARPELES-Well, do we have a picture of the sign? Usually we
have some kind of a thing that shows us what the sign's going to
look li ke.
MS. WHEELER-Sure. It was in the original application.
simple, very straightforward. All the lettering will
etched in goldleaf, and the background, and I
background, I believe, is cranberry. It's small,
They're going to put plantings around it.
It's very
be carved,
think the
low key.
MR. MENTER-Overall height is?
MS. WHEELER~Twenty inches is from the middle, measured in the
middle. It's not there, and three feet from the bottom of the
slanted grade is normally what we do, just for snow. I believe
that they're going to landscape around it. There was a landscape
shown on the original application. I don't have a copy of it
now.
MR. FORD-So the top of it would be four feet eight inches off the
ground.
MR. MENTER-Right.
MS. WHEELER-And then when we looked at the map we discovered that
we didn't have enough setback, which I didn't realize.
MR. CARVIN-Do you have any measurements, by any chance, how much
relief you are seeking from the 15 feet?
MS. WHEELER-That's a guesstimate. I'll be honest with you.
There was snow when I went out. I couldn't find a post.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. This is the lot that was?
MS. WHEELER-Right. Sue's office provided this.
copy, but that's where I got the dimensions from.
is angled. It goes back to 36 something back here.
It's a faxed
The property
MR. KARPELES-It's 26 feet to the center of that road, and I don't
know how much it is from the center of this other road.
MR. THOMAS-Well, it's 20 feet, from the plowed edge, and it's
probably 10 feet beyond that.
MR. MENTER-Yes. I think the 20 feet is optimistic.
MS. WHEELER-Those a'"e !D..'i. measurements.
MR. CARVIN-So, you're looking at probably seven to eleven feet.
MS. WHEELER-That's taking 26 and subtracting.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
from, right?
So this is the Section that we need relief
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MS. WHEELER-Right.
MR. CARVIN-Just the west side.
east.
You're in compliance with the
MS. WHEELER-Well, I guess from the center of the road they need
40 feet and there's only 30, because it's a small road.
MS. CIPPERLY-The Section of the Ordinance
this states 15 feet from the property line.
that actually covered
So she's okay there.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, it looks like she's okay here and
she's okay here.
MS. CIPPERLY-The piece where the property line is unknown, you
could go to the center of the road, but I think in this case.
MR. KARPELES-So this 15 feet is okay?
MR. CARVIN-That's what I'm saying. She really only needs just
relief on the west side, on the back side.
MS. WHEELER-Because according to my calculations, it's about 30
feet back to their property line.
MS. CIPPERLY-It's supposed to be 15 feet from any property line.
MR. FORD-You've had contact with that property owner?
MS. WHEELER-The one that owns that?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MS. WHEELER-The Homeowners Association owns that parcel of
property.
MR. MENTER-The one it's on. He means the adjacent property.
MR. FORD-The one that you're going to be seven feet from.
MR. KARPELES-Yes.
here?
We're wondering, has anybody been contacted
MS. WHEELER-I assumed he got a notice.
MR. KARPELES-I don't know. A lot of times they don't.
MS. CIPPERLY-I thought you said you had talked to?
MS. WHEELER-I talked to Gary Turk, who is the President. He was
going to contact them, but I talked to him today. He's in
Syracuse. He said when they were working on the corner this
summer they discussed it and showed them what they planned to do
there, and they didn't have any objections.
MR. CARVIN-Was he around when the posts were put in?
MS. WHEELER-No. That was prior, I guess he talked to him. He
never got over there and got a note or anything from him, but
Gary Turk got notification of this meeting, which usually anybody
within 500 feet get it. So this guy should have gotten it also.
MR. FORD-But you say he's in Syracuse?
MS. WHEELER-Gary Turk is. He's the President of the Homeowners
Association. The property owner, I don't know what his name is.
MR. KARPELES-So we don't know if he was notified or not.
MS. WHEELER-He should have been. I mean, I always get notified
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of stuff in ffiZ· neighborhood, but isn't it normally, they send out
a letter to those within 500 feet?
MR. KARPELES-Yes, but a lot of times it doesn't happen.
MR. CARVIN-Could we see the faxed map again?
MS. WHEELER-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-Is that part of the Ambershire? I'm wondering if
that's even part of it. Do you know if this is part of the
Ambershire?
MS. WHEELER-No, it isn't.
MR. CARVIN-I think that's a private residence.
MS. WHEELER...;.It's à pr ivate res'iden'ce.
That's off'that:map.
John and Joà~ Liberty.
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MRJ MENTEiR-I 'imagine in the summer tim:e it'iS a pretty defining
line of trees there~
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MS. J..JHEELER~Yes..
MR. CARVIN-Well, as ~ looked at it, it really didn't look like it
was intrusive.
MR. MENTER-No.
MS. WHEELER-No, and they're going to landscape
they',-e not moving any of the t,-ees behind it.
drawing didn't bring the trees down far enough.
down beyond where this line is going.
around it, and
Actually, my
The bushes do go
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MR. CARVIN~I almost think that that's wooded here, too, if memory
serves C0-rrect.
MR. MENTER-Yes. It is~ I was out there just today, actually,
and I think that the sign is going to be completely hidden, from
almost the whole property, not just where this house is.
MS. WHEELER-His entrance goes in off of Pitcher Road.
MR. FORD-What will be the color of the back side of this sign?
MS. WHEELER-The same as the front. I believe it's cranberry.
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes. It's cranberry with gold.
MR. CARVIN-Any other comments?
MR. MENTER-It's certainly a unique piece of prop.erty, I think,
because of the size, the dimension of it,. "'\,'
MR. THOMAS-I agree with David. It is a unique piece of property
that can't be used for anything else but what, you put a sign on
it, nobody can build on it. So I don't see any problem with it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. In that case, I will ask for a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE NO. 5-1995 HOLLY WHEELER K.D.
WHEELER CUSTOM SIGNS, Introduced by David Menter who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
The applicant, Holly Wheeler, who proposes to install a
freestanding sign with the name Ambershire at the entrance to
Ambershi,-e Housing Development, at the corner of Pitcher Road and
Amethyst Road. The parcel is a unique parcel. It serves as a
buffer between that development and other adjoining lots. This
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sign would have no negative effect on the community as it would
be hidden from all but the Ambershire side of that piece of
property, and the proposed placement and angle appears to be the
most effective place for the sign. We're granting eight feet
from the southerly post on the westerly side, and four feet from
the northerly post on the westerly side.
Duly adopted this 15th day of February, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
AREA VARIANCE NO. 2-1995 TYPE: UNLISTED HC-1A MC DONALD'S
CORPORATION OWNER: EDWIN D. KING QUAKER RD., DIX AVENUE,
HIGHLAND AVE. APPLICANT PROPOSES PLACEMENT OF A CURB CUT FOR A
FAST-FOOD RESTAURANT THIRTY-SEVEN (37) FEET FROM AN EXISTING CURB
CUT, CLOSER THAN ALLOWED BY SECTION 179-66B(4), WHICH REQUIRES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTY (150) FEET BETWEEN ADJOINING ACCESS POINTS FOR
COMMERCIAL USES. (WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 1/11/95 TAX MAP NO.
110-1-3.3 LOT SIZE: 1.833 ACRES SECTION 179-66B(4)
ED BEELER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 2-1995, McDonald's
Corporation, Meeting Date: February 15, 1995 "APPLICANT:
McDonald's Co)"poration PROJECT LOCATION: Dix Avenue PROPOSED
PROJECT: Applicant proposes placement of a curb-cut for a fast-
food restaurant thirty-seven (37) feet from an existing curb cut.
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE: Section 179-66B(4)
requires one hundred fifty (150) feet between adjoining access
points for commercial uses. STAFF FINDINGS (Prior to Public
Hearing): 1. The lot shown on the plan submitted has yet to be
approved by the Planning Board. Application has been made to
subdivide the parcel as shown, but that consideration is awaiting
the outcome of the variance proceeding. 2. A Site Plan
application has also been filed, and is awaiting the variance
and subdivision decisions. 3. The applicant proposes to install
a 3-lane driveway, providing the sole access to the site, 38 feet
from the curb cut for King Fuels, which is across Dix Avenue from
the curb cut for Quaker Farms. These three access points would
all be within 450 feet of the Dix/Quaker intersection. 4. The
remaining parcel created by the proposed subdivision would also
seek a curb cut, adding another set of turns and traffic to the
situation. PARCEL HISTORY This 3.42-acre property was split
from parcel 3.1, which is north of Dix Avenue, in 1990. Edwin
King became sole owner in June, 1992, according to the Assessor's
records. SEQR: Unlisted. Short form EAF must be reviewed.
STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: Planning staff have discussed the
possibility of a shared access for the two parcels, to improve
the situation over that which is proposed. The applicant was
reluctant to consider this option, due to their needs relative to
on-site circulation. Staff submitted the proposed plan to the
Glens Falls Urban Area Transportation Council for review. The
resulting comments are attached -- they recommend a circulation
plan for this triangle be developed. These comments were echoed
by Mark Kennedy, from NYS DOT Region 1. Comments from Warren
County Planning Board are enclosed in the form of a resolution."
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board held
on the 11th day of January, 1995, the above application for an
Area Variance for the placement of a curb cut for a fast-food
restaurant 37 feet from an existing curb cut in lieu of the
required 150 feet was reviewed and the following action was
taken. Recommendation to disapprove. Comments: Curb cuts too
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close together, and there are traffic concerns."
Thomas Haley, Chairperson.
Signed by
MR. BEALER-Good evening. My name is Ed Bealer. I'm a Project
Manager with McDonald's Corporation~ In regards to this
application, we did have a traffic study completed, and (lost
words) Engineer at the Planning Board~ He couldn't be here
tonight, but his findings with the curb cuts with King Fuels next
to us, and with ,the curb cut across the street for the nursery
there, basically the traffic levels out there, he did not see any
conflicts with turning movements in and out, and he did gap
studies in the morning; noon time and evening rush hours and
found the proper number of gaps for cars entering our site based
on the traffic through there. Again, we minimized this, a lot of
our sites we have two curb cuts, one for an entrance only and one
for an exit only. I stated in the application, if we went with
that route, the entrance curb cut would be much closer, 10, 15
foot separation there. In order to minimize this, we went with
the one common entrance and exit curb cut in the center, to try
and get as great a distance of separation between those as
possible. Because of that existing curb cut at King Fuels, it
makes it very difficult for us to get that 150 feet separation.
As you can see on our site plan, with the exception of the curb
cut location, we meet all the setback requirements, all the
parking requirements. We have a substantial amount of green
space. However, the 150 foot separation is a severe hardship on
this parcel, considering the existing curb cut at King Fuels.
Also, (lost word) Dix Avenue being a County road, it has been
reviewed by the County Department of Public Works, and the
separation more than exceeds the County requirements for state
ingress and egress in adjoining curb cuts.
MS. CIPPERLY-There are two letters that you probably ought to
read into the record. One's from the County~ that's attached to
the applic,ation, and the other's the Glens Falls one that's
attached to my notes.
MR. THOMAS-Do you want to read them now, or wait until after
public comment?'
MR. CARVIN-You better read them now.
MR. THOMAS-Oka~. A letter dated December 12, 1994, McDonald's
Corporation, Attention: Ed Bealer "Dear Mr. Bealer: The Warren
County Department of Public Works reviewed the proposed
McDonald's Restaurant site plan adjacent to CR 42 - Dix Avenue
and we have the following comments to make: A. All storm water
will remain on the proposed site. No storm water will be allowed
to flow in the bounds of CR 70 - Quaker Road. B. We suggest
moving the project 16 feet southerly due to the fact that we will
be adding another 12' wide lane next to the existing east bound
lane on Dix Avenue in the next couple of years. C. Finally, we
would like to see a four foot wide curbed median between the
ingress lane and the egress lane (left turnout). We will be
available at your convenience to discuss the above if you so
desire. Thank you, in advance, for letting us comment on the
above property. Very truly yours, Roger Gebo Dep.
Superintendent" A letter dated February 7th, addressed to James
Martin,' Community Development, Town óf Queensbury, regarding
proposed McDonald's Development "Dear Jim: I have reviewed the
site plan and traffic impact study for the proposed McDonald's
Restaurant on Dix Avenue between Quaker Road and Route 32, aka.
Highland Avenue, and would you to be aware of the comments listed
below. In addition~ I asked Mark Kennedy, NYSDOT Region I Permit
Engineer, to review this application within the same time frame.
NYSDOT does not have jurisdiction in this matter as the access
requested by McDonald's restaurant is not on a NYS highway, but
because of the proximity of NYS Route 32, they do have an
interest. The McDonald's proposal calls for the subdivision of a
triangular lot bordered by Quaker Road, Route 32, and Dix Avenue
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into three lots with the McDonald's proposed )"estaurant occupying
the center lot. While I agree with the conclusions of the
traffic impact study that (1) the circulation within the proposed
site plan is adequate and (2) that the traffic impact on current
levels on Dix Avenue will be slight, the traffic impact study
ignores the impact of the full buildout of the triangular parcel.
Mr. Kennedy agrees with me that combined driveways for two or
more of the parcels within the larger parcel would be consistent
with the Town of Queensbury's access management policy.
Furthermore, I feel that a circulation plan for the entire
triangular parcel should be developed with a service road or
access drive across the proposed McDonald's parcel from the now
vacant parcel to the current gasoline station to limit future
adverse traffic impacts on the three roads. Thank you for the
opportunity to comment on this proposed subdivision and site
plan. Sincerely, Joanna M. Brunso Staff Director Glens Falls
Urban Area Transportation Council"
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Would you have any comments to those comments?
MR. BEELER-One of the Warren County comments, all stormwater will
be retained on site, we don't have any problem with that, an
issue with that, and as far as moving the building back 16 feet,
actually on this site plan you have, we just moved it back about
22 feet, based on that request, and the other reason for that, I
can get into that in a minute. As far as the four foot wide
curbed median, we will do that. What we will do is we'll take
the curb cut and we'll move it towards the east, to make room for
that four foot median. Therefore, we won't be moving any closer
to the existing curb cut, King Fuels property. As mentioned, as
far as the total circulation for the site, it's kind of hard for
us to anticipate what's going to happen there. (lost word)
traffic study (lost word) use is going to go in there. Several
types of uses could go in there. They could generate different
types of traffic. What we did mention to the Planning Board was
that if someone came in to purchase that parcel, that we would be
willing to relocate our curb cut for one common curb cut at that
time. At this time it would help knowing what's going to go in
there. We aren't able to do that, but first of all, Mr. King
doesn't want to give up anymore property. It's a small piece of
property, being a triangular parcel, that's reducing his
frontage, that's severely impacts the marketability of that
property, but if it works out where the next applicant, it's
convenient for him-to have a curb cut adjacent to our property,
we'd be more than willing to buy into that. That's one of the
reasons we moved our building back more than the 16 feet the
County required, so that, if you did have an access road on the
side, it would be able to come off of Dix Avenue and make that
turning movement into our site and cut across the front of our
building. At this time, I just don't feel it's the best thing to
do for the site.
MR. CARVIN-Sue, did you have anything, as far as the common
access?
MS. CIPPERLY-Our proposal to McDonald's was that they, since, for
one thing, these lots are not yet created, and right-of-ways
would be able, you could make a right-of-way, say, along the, it
would be the top of that map. You could make a joint driveway
that could be accessed by either of these two businesses, move it
up here, and you could go in either to McDonald's or into this
one, and we'd have one curb cut instead of one here and one here,
and since this seems to be a point where that could be
accomplished, within the property transfers, rather than have
this c)"eated and then come along and say, well, this person
doesn't want to do that. There's also a requirement that
McDonald's have an access to the next parcel anyway, which they
also have to King Fuels. It just seemed like perhaps granting
~ relief from the 150, but having one common.
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MR. CARVIN-Okay. You have a more detailed map, is that correct,
of the whole parcel?
MS. CIPPERLY-I have a map from the County. This is the existing
King Fuels access. This is where Quakey Farms.
MR. CARVIN-And then the parcel comes in here, and we'll have
still a triangular piece out here.
MR. BEELER-This is the subdivision map for the site that shows
the existing King Fuels property over here, and this is the
parcel we're looking to subdivide, and this would be the
remaining parcel, and if we were to do now what's being
requested, making a common curb cut, this would be about a 30
foot easement that would be needed that this parcel, a 200 foot
depth, which would be about here, which isn't really that great
in depth, we'd ónly end up with 150 foot of frontage, which
really kind of makes tight for someone to fit in there.
MS. CIPPERLY-That's (lost word) what you said in your own
application. That's a conforming lot.
MR. BEELER-Right, but if it reduces, we couldn't fit on 150 feet,
and I don't know, it reduces the number of people that can go in
there and fit on a parcel that's only 150 feet wide. While it's
conforming with the Zoning Ordinance, it still makes it difficult
for someone to go in there and layout on there. Now it may be
possible, and we'd be more than willing, as a condition of site
plan or whatever, where we can move OUI curb cut ovel hele, if it
makes sense for this parcel, if we get a variance fOI OUI curb
cut hele. If it doesn't make sense for this parcel to have a
curb cut here, they have more than enough frontage to meet the
150 foot of frontage, or separation, on their curb cut.
RICHARD SLOW
MR. SLOW-I'm here representing Mr. King. My name's Richard Slow.
I'm his son-in-law. Because we don't know what the final
purpose, if any, will be for this lot, we are actively trying to
market it. We don't want to give anything up here. However,
we're willing to sign an agreement saying there's a McDonald's
there. That after a true purpose is determined, if some land has
to be given up here, here, whatever we have to do to make an
entlance work for both purposes we're happy to agree with, but
until we know what the needs are for here, we don't want to do
a nythi ng.
MS. CIPPERLY-And it's the Staff's position if somebody
along and that situation is already there, they'll have
with it. That's a condition of going on to that parcel,
you go in from this access. I don't see why that would
having an access up here would be even worse because
configuration of the road.
comes
to do
is that
be so,
of the
MARK HARRIGAN
MR. HARRIGAN-As a property owner trying to market a piece of
property, I can tell you that this would severely limit the
financial aspects of trying to sell this. If that's not there,
it's not limited, while we're tlying to market it, until we find
out what the purpose is. We can always tell them that, you know,
after we find out what the purpose is, that we made an agreement
to put in a Joint access, certain criteria is met, or whatever it
is, but until we know what it is, you don't want to devalue the
property.
MR. CARVIN-Let me
frontage? There's
there? Would this
wanted a curb cut?
ask you this, Sue. If this is, they have
not 150 feet from this curb cut to hele, is
lot have to come in for a variance, if they
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MS. CIPPERLY-If this were here, there would be enough room for a
curb cut. You wouldn't need another variance in order to put a
curb cut here. The problem was that it's like going to be like
on the Million Dollar Half Mile, where you've got entrance,
entrance, and you've got an intersection here.
MR. CARVIN-And this area is going to become a heavily trafficked
area. There's no two ways about it.
MS. CIPPERLY-We're just trying to learn from the past, here.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, and that was one of the comments about the
Million Dollar Half Mile.
MR. BEELER-The other thing, one area where it's 200 foot depth,
this is a very small area for laying out a septic system, which i
required in this area. So, depending on what the use is, our
septic system for our site would not be able to fit in that small
triangular piece. So this reduces, the smaller the parcel gets
there, the fewer the options they have on selling it, because of
the size, parking requirements, septic system, reserve area for
the septic system, the setbacks.
MR. SLOW-We're finding it difficult enough as it is to market it,
without making it smaller.
MS. CIPPERLY-The other thing that comes up is are
create too much on that piece of land? And as
criteria for an Area Variance, this lot isn't there
would be giving him relief from a physical problem
exist yet. It's being created.
we trying to
far as your
yet. So you
that doesn't
MR. CARVIN-Yes. Does everybody understand that? This is a whole
lot, at this point, and this is a proposed lot adjustment. Okay.
Does anybody have any questions?
MS. CIPPERLY-This
front setbacks on
which would limit,
area, but it would
lot would be kind of, again, it would have
this road and front setbacks on this road,
you could put your septic into some of this
be pretty limited.
MR. SLOW-This would be the only area that we'd be allowed to
build something, or someone would be allowed to build something.
MR. KARPELES-Where is the septic going for the McDonald's?
MR. BEELER-In the back of our parking lot to the south of the
site, on the south end. I think our parking lot goes back to
about 230 feet, 238 feet back to here, and then the rest from
here back is all green for our septic system reserve area.
MR. CARVIN-And then this, has anybody thought about, have you
looked at cutting it this way, the McDonald's on one side and the
other guys on the other side?
MR. MENTER-You wouldn't be able to put your septic in.
MR. CARVIN-I don't know. If you draw a line right here, you're
going to have plenty, I would think.
MR. SLOW-There's not much depth there. I'm not sure who'd want
to front on Highland Avenue. There's not much traffic really
over on Highland Avenue.
MS. CARVIN-There's Quaker Road, here. You'd have your frontage
here.
MS. CIPPERLY-The other thing is there's an entrance for K-Mart
that's there.
- 9 -
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MR. CARVIN-I'm just asking if anybody has thought about that.
MR. SLOW-There's an elevation problem here, I think.
higher than the road, isn't it?
This is
MR. BEELER-It rises up quite high there.
MR. CARVIN-I'm just saying that, if this is a problem lot, then
you make this your problem lot down here.
MR. HARRIGAN
MR. HARRIGAN-I'm Mark Harrigan from McDonald's, from. I think
the problem might be is getting a curb cut down close to here. I
think you're' going to, now you've got a curb cut here, here, and
here. I think you're creating the same problem.
MR. SLOW-From here around to maybe here it's impossible to put in
a curb cut because of the elevations.
MS. CIPPERLY-I was suggesting that you take the one that's at,
there is a light there, I beliève that, isn't there a light at K-
Mart there?
MR. SLOW-No. There's just here and up at Dix and Quaker.
MS. CIPPERLY-There's an access here, though, from K-Mart, which
could possibly make an aligned intersection there.
MR. HARRIGAN-But I think also when you look at this piece from a
real estate standpoint, where I come fr6m, is there is not a lot
of high traffic users out there that are going to look at this
particular parcel. There's not going to, he's a service station
guy. We're a fast-foot guy, and we're not going to allow another
fast-food to go over here.
MR. SLOW-One person that has looked at it in a serious nature,
and he's only looked at it once. He hasn't gotten back to me a
second time yet, but I think his type use might be what will
develop, and he's a supply store, specialty, heating supply
equipment type store. I think that would be the type retail use
that, the only one we'll be able to entice to build there. That
won't be a high volume traffic center.
MR. FORD-That really goes back to what was suggested there, and
to look at splitting it that way, because if you're looking at
supply company with access off Highland Avenue, that might be a
possibility, but I didn't understand the answer to that
suggestion, or that question. Was that considered, that it would
be split that way, rather than back this way?
MR. SLOW-When we first, when Mr. King first bought the land, he
bought only this parcel. Later on, he bought the rest of the
land. King Fuels bought this originally, and then he bought the
rest of this with a partner, later on.
MS. CIPPERLY-That was part of this parcel over here.
MR. SLOW-And when our engineers and our architects looked at the
King Fuels portion of it, this was the only spot that we could
build a station on this lot, because of the elevations over here.
This was the only logical spot for the septic system. This is
actually probably a 20 foot difference in height from there to
the road.
MR. HARRIGAN-I think to take a left turn out onto here, it would
be a bit of a dangerous maneuver, too, as cars back up for this
light here, and cars come around here. I don't think anybody
will want to see a left turn merging in here, when people are
slowing up for a light.
- 10 -
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MR. CARVIN-No, but on the other hand, you'd have a lot of space
on Highland Ave. Do you see what I'm saying? You've got a light
there.
MR. HARRIGAN-This would be the only way to do
particular spot, the only spot you could put an
here. We don't know a purpose.
it. This
entrance was
MR. CARVIN-What I'm saying is that that way, then you could put
your McDonald's in here, and you'd have your 150 feet, and your
entrance would be back here.
MR. BEELER-I'm not sure whether our building, and it's not a big
building, it's only 3,000 square feet, if we could actually lay
it out on here and get the proper traffic circulation, like this,
putting it in here, that's a depth of not even 150 feet.
MR. CARVIN-Well, remember, you can
I mean, this is not cast in stone
line, either.
move these lot lines
that it has to be
around.
straight
MS. CIPPERLY-If this were a smaller type thing.
MR. HARRIGAN-That would devalue or make it much less desirable or
valuable than from here down, that type triangle.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, the other thing to be quite blunt about it,
there's really no obligation for you to have two lots there.
MR. MENTER-Yes. I understand your point. I mean, it's not a
devaluation, because there is no valuation of it, because there's
no lots.
MR. CARVIN-There's no lot there.
MR. BEELER-I think ultimately, though, the Planning Board's
intention is to, Staff's intention is to end up with one curb cut
for these two parcels, and I'm more than willing to accommodate
that in the future, when this person comes in, and it makes
sense, but right now, for people to come in to us, we'd still lay
the building out this way. The people that come in to our site
make this big looping motion, it's rather awkward. I mean, this
right now would be the most sensible traffic movement into the
site, the most safe movement.
MR. CARVIN-Even if you set the building this way, I mean, the
traffic still could come in.
MR. FORD-Was that considered, this as a lot rather than parceling
it off, and laying the building out this way?
MR. SLOW-In our minds, in marketing, we always considered it to
be two lots this way. We thought that would be the most
desirable, but we as the remaining owner of this parcel, proposed
parcel, and McDonald's is the proposed user of this parcel, do
both agree that when we find out what the purpose might be here
that they'll change it and we'll agree to work with them to do
whatever's necessary, but until we know what that use is, I don't
want to restrict it.
MR. HARRIGAN-I think if you looked at our traffic study and how
we do our business, we're really a lunch time, noon hour is our
peak hour, and I think you'll find that if you look at this road,
it's typical a.m./p.m. peak hour, when your traffic (lost word).
The other thing is when we met with the lady from the State,
Joa nna .
MS. CIPPERLY-Joanna Brunso. She's the one that wrote the letter.
MR. HARRIGAN-Right. I think she thought the traffic counts were
- 11 -
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much higher than what they are. I forget what they are, but the
traffic counts at Dix Road are not what you'd consider a high
volume traffic area, and I think when you take a look at the
traffic report and see how we do our business, and we are a noon
time business, that's when we generate our traffic, I think
you'll find that we don't create an impact at allan the street,
and we're really still, you've got one curb cut, plus we're
putting an access back here. We're saying that we will agree to,
to what's being proposed down here, when you figure out what's
happening, but I, as a real estate person, when I drive around
and I can visually look at somebody's property and see this, and
can I fit on it? I don't know.
MR. CARVIN-I think that, I don't know when the traffic count was
taken, or under what conditions, but I know that Dix Ave. is a
fairly busy highway. With the K-Mart here, the traffic on Quaker
Road, and with the developing up in this area here, and with all
the new businesses coming in, it will have an impact. I mean,
McDonald's, I'm sure, has done surveys. They're not putting a
McDonald's there because they don't think there's going to be
much traffic.
MR. HARRIGAN-Traffic has not been one of our major
considerations, though. Most of our business is residential
based. When you really take a look at the traffic, and the
traffic that's moving in this direction, to make a left hand
turn, you've got gapping that's created on the light. So it's
relatively easy to make a left hand turn. To make a right hand
turn, you're coming out and you're making a right hand turn.
When you look at, the traffic report breaks down by hour of day,
how we do business, and if you look at that, you'll see that it
doesn't typically impact the roadways.
MR. FORD-I disagree with that. I use this through Dix Avenue
quite a bit. This, already, is a dangerous intersection right
here at Highland and Dix, and eventually when a second lane is
added here, as is proposed, you're making a left hand lane after
a dangerous intersection here, and a high flow area here, across
two lanes of oncoming traffic. I see a potential danger there.
MS. CIPPERLY-The other thing here is there's the King Fuels thing
here, which is a line to cross here, with the Quaker Farms has
now had this one closed off. Trying to make a left out here is
very difficult now, and I can just, I use this intersection a
lot, too, and to have turning traffic out of here, turning
traffic out of here, turning traffic, it's really the turning
into the road.
MR. FORD-And this is blind to view back here.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I think what we're looking at is having a single
curb cut, and as much distance as we can.
MR. HARRIGAN-And this would be to service these two proposed,
what if that were moved, what if we agreed to go like that, which
would be less of a taking from this proposed lot.
MR. CARVIN-I think that's what Staff is indicating.
MS. CIPPERLY-This is 163 feet across here. This is another, say,
40. So that's 200. So you could come even to here and have a
conforming.
MR. HARRIGAN-It's 40 on the King Fuels side?
MS. CIPPERLY-Between their proposed driveway on there, and where
the other curb cut ends. I measured it to 38.
MR. KARPELES-Well, what's this 48 foot?
- 12 -
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"-"'
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, they measured to the line that comes straight
out from King Fuels, rather than. I measured from here to there.
What I'm saying is you could, this is rounded off to 40 plus the
160, 200 over here. So you could even come 50 feet.
MR. THOMAS-So if you moved the 15 feet this way and straddled
that property line.
MR. HARRIGAN-There's something about, their zoning runs, lets say
if this was subdivided, and then you call for a minimum lot size
of 150, but your curb cuts need to be separated by 150, it's just
impossible to meet those two requirements, of a minimum lot size
of 150.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, there's also, we're supposed to grant the
minimum relief necessary.
MR. CARVIN-And I think more of a concern is the safety issue,
because I think that, and I'm not disputing anybody's traffic
studies, but I think they may be underemphasizing the traffic
flow through there.
MR. HARRIGAN-Well, the DOT comments agreed with the traffic study
analysis. That was in the letter, as far as today's levels.
They agreed that it's going to be a minimum impact. I forget the
wording they had in their letter, but what they were talking
about is in the future. In the future, we don't know.
MR. CARVIN-I think we can safely assume that the future looks
pretty bright for that area. I mean, that's mz feeling.
MS. CIPPERLY-That's what the concern was, was not just this
individual project, but the cumulative, for both this triangle
and for what's going to happen. There's another piece of
commercial land across the street that's for sale. This one is
15 acre commercial piece, and that could be aligned, when that
sells for commercial, that could be aligned with something here.
MR. HARRIGAN-That's why we're saying in the future we're more
than willing to agree to close off our curb cut and relocate it
down here at that time.
MR. CARVIN-But I think I'm more inclined not to create a problem
for the future, but solve one today.
MR. FORD-You've got a lot here and a lot here. Would any
variances at all be required if we looked at it that way, rather
than trying to reserve another portion of this land here for
future development?
MR. HARRIGAN-I don't know. We're going to look at that.
MS. CIPPERLY-If they could put their driveway here, wherever 150
feet is, then they wouldn't need a variance. So it's really this
attempt to subdivide the land.
MR. FORD-Right. So it is self-created, in order for future
development of this parcel here. That requires the variance.
MS. CIPPERLY-And you're also creating another piece that's going
to have to some problems, it would not surprise me if they had to
come in for variances for the setbacks in order to.
MR. FORD-So we're taking one lot that would
variance and forcing two lots, both of which
variances. One definite, and the other projected.
not require a
will require
MS. CIPPERLY-The setback there is 50 feet. So a building on this
would have to be within that triangle.
- 13 -
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MR. KARPELES-I agree with Tom. I don't see why we can't just, I
think we're making another Million Dollar Mile, if we do this.
We're trying to cram too much into too small an area, and there's
one lot there. He can meet the requirement.
MR. CARVIN-I tend to agree with all these comments. So, if there
are no other comments, I would ask for a motion.
MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 2-1995 MCDONALD'S CORPORATION,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
The applicant is proposing the placement of a curb cut for a fast
food ,-estaurant 37 feet from an existing curb cut. Section 179-
66B Paragraph Four requires 150 feet between adjoining access
points for commercial use. Upon review of the applicant's
proposal, the existing lot would appear to have the possibility
and potential of complying with the Ordinance as currently
written. I think by granting relief from this particular Section
would cause, or could cause, a safety situation that would not be
in the Town's best interest. There also appears to be other
possible alternatives which have been suggested which, if
explored, could possibly comply with the Section as written. If
we allowed this or granted this Area Variance, there would be an
undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood, and it
would appear that this requested relief is self-created, and if
we also granted relief from this particular Area Variance that
would appear to be the maximum relief and not minimum relief.
Duly adopted this 15th day of February, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Ford, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
AREA VARIANCE NO. 6-1995 TYPE II WR-1A CEA CRAIG & DENISE
HANCHETT OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE PALMER DRIVE APPLICANT PROPOSES
TO CONSTRUCT A TWO CAR GARAGE THIRTEEN (13) FEET FROM THE SOUTH
PROPERTY LINE, REPLACING AN EXISTING GARAGE WHICH IS THREE (3)
FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. RELIEF IS SOUGHT FROM SECTION 179-
16C, WHICH REQUIRES A TWENTY (20) FOOT SETBACK ON THIS SIDE.
(WARREN COUNTY PLANNING) 2/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 144-1-5 LOT SIZE:
0.50 ACRES SECTION 179-16C
CRAIG HANCHETT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 6-1995, Craig & Denise
Hanchett, Meeting Date: February 15, 1995 "APPLICANT: Craig
and Denise Hanchett PROJECT LOCATION: 9 Palmer Drive PROPOSED
PROJECT: Applicant proposes to construct a two car garage
thirteen (13) feet from the property line, replacing an existing
garage which is three (3) feet from the property line.
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE: Section 179-16C requires
a twenty (20) foot setback on this side. Applicant seeks relief
of seven (7) feet, resulting in a thirteen (13) foot setback.
STAFF FINDINGS (Prior to Public Hearing): 1. The proposed
location would increase compliance with the Ordinance, while
still maintaining at least the required separation distance of
ten (10) feet between the house and garage. 2. It would not be
possible to move the garage any closer to the house because of
the relation of the septic system to the driveway. 3. Power
lines run directly in back of the proposed garage. It appears
preferable to site the structure as proposed, rather than move it
back. PARCEL HISTORY: According to the Assessor's Office, this
is a 0.48 lot and the house was built in 1959. SEQR: Type II.
- 15 -
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MR. HARRIGAN-Which is possible. It just reduces the size of the
building, where we'd be able to construct, and they'd be able to.
MS. CIPPERLY-I was just saying that because you're fronting on
two roads, you're going to have to extend this 50 foot setback
across this property here, and you'll have another one coming up
here, and if you put in a four foot wide island, that makes your.
MR. CARVIN-Are they going to need a buffer here too, Sue, from
the building?
MS. CIPPERLY-No, not between those two lots.
MR. KARPELES-Where is that four foot wide island supposed to go,
right in here where this thing is? So this is supposed to be
four feet.
MR. CARVIN-If you come that way, I think they both end up with
more room, because this one's going to have a handicapped anyway,
at some point, conceivably could.
MR. HARRIGAN-What's the setback from this property line, that
we'd be restricted from?
MR. THOMAS-That one there says 25, on
on that one. It would probably be
line is.
this. So that would be 25
right about where that red
MR. SLOW-So we're not left with very much to begin with. That's
what I'd hate to give anything up.
MR. KARPELES-Well, it probably ought to be just one lot.
MR. FORD-That's what it is.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions, gentlemen, or comments,
thoughts? If not, I'll open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT'
PUBLIC HEAR!NG CLOSËD
MR. CARVIN-Well, gentlemen, any other questions, comments or
thoughts?
MR. THOMAS-Well, I like the idea of putting in that common
driveway right now, to avoid a problem in the future, because the
next applicant that comes in for the other triangular: piece may
or may not want it, and this way the driveway's in now. He's
forced to take it, and it may cut into that property a little
bit, but like was drawn on that map, if you straddled the
proposed property line with that driveway, 15 feet either side,
for a 30 foot road, I don't see where that would be any big deal.
I don't think it'll take away from either property. I know both
have about the same road frontage.
MR. FORD-I see us being asked to offer a variance when one is
not, these lots do not yet exist as two separate entities.
Therefore, I view it as one lot, and, therefore, working with
that configuíation, there's ample space to provide entíances and
egress without even coming in fOí a variance.
MR. MENTER-I agree. I'd be inclined to deal with the situation
now, because it is going to be a problem. In fact, the final
parcel may wind up being better off if it's taken caíe of now
than later. I think it needs to be deteímined befoíe the píoject
goes.
- 14 -
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No further action needed.
further comment."
STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS:
No
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the Warren County planning Board held
on the 8th day of February 1995, the above application for an
Area Variance to construct a 2 car garage 13' from the south
property line, replacing an existing'garage which is 3' from the
property line. was reviewed, and the following action was taken.
Recommendation to: NoCounty Impact" Signed by Thomas Haley,
Chairperson"
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Mr. and Mrs. Hanchett. Is there anything you'd
care to add?
MR. HANCHETT-No. Pretty much the letter sums it up.
MR. CARVIN-Any questions from anybody on the Board? I just have
one. I just want to make sure I'm understanding this. Your
existing garage is on a three foot setback and you're going to
move that closer to the house, is that correct, back to about a
13 foot?
MR. HANCHETT-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and I'm assuming that the old garage will come
down?
MR. HANCHETT-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and the driveway will stay existing, but just
kind of anGled a little bit.
MR. HANCHETT-Right.
MR. CARVIN-All right. There's some trees out there. Will any of
the trees be impacted by any chance?
MR. HANCHETT-No trees at all.
MR. CARVIN-So you won't have any vegetation problem or anything
like that?
MR. HANCHETT-No. The driveway will stay the way it is. It's at
an angle now. 1
MR. FORD-Could you describe for us the appearánce of the new
structure?
MR. HANCHETT-I can show you.
MR. FORD--It's got textured siding on the sides, vertical blinds?
MR. HANCHETT-What's on the house now is board and batten.
MS. CIPPERLY-Could someone tell me what the height of the garage
is?
MR. MENTER-What's the scale, an inch equals a foot?
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, when the building permit comes in, I don't
want to see 20 foot tall.
MR. THOMAS-The scale as noted, take that eight foot measurement
and see what that measures. Measure that eight foot and see what
that says, right here. Just measure that eight and that'll give
us a scale. Yes. It's about one inch equals four feet.
MR. KARPELES-How did you arrive upon 13 feet, from the house to
the garage?
- 16 -
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....../
MR. HANCHETT-It's from the house to where I wanted it.
MR. KARPELES-Couldn't you bring it over another three feet, and
have even less?
MR. HANCHETT-I could, but then I'd be cut, just to make the swing
into the garage, it would be too much of an angle, and I'd be
actually pulling out of the garage. I'd be coming right near the
septic. That's in that area, coming too close.
MR. KARPELES-What's that, is that a drainage field, or is this
just a tank there?
MR. HANCHETT-That is a septic.
drywell off in there.
There is a septic and then the
MS. CIPPERLY-And by Code you can't be driving over your septic.
So he'd have to use his existing driveway and somehow get to his
gar age.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions? I'll open up the public
hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
ROBERT BARODY
MR. BARODY-Robert Barody. I'm within 500 feet. I own a cottage
in the area. All these lots were undersized lots. The
subdivision was drawn up way back in the early 30's. So a lot of
times in this area relief is needed. I don't see any problem
with this whatsoever. Also, the lots originally were 50 foot
wide lots. Fortunately most people bought two of them which
allowed us to have 100 feet wide, which doesn't meet today's
standards, I realize, but I think in this area we do need relief
occasionally. The neighbor called last night, the one right next
door, and he agreed with it. It was just a verbal.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-I'll ask the Board one more time if there's any
questions or comments?
MR. MENTER-My comment would be that I would certainly be inclined
to grant it because he's actually reducing the relief that's
needed, or the nQnconformity anyway, and I don't think it'll have
any effect whatsoever on the neighborhood.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. If we have no other questions or comments, I
would ask for a motion.
MS. CIPPERLY-When you do your motions, could you start, on
garages, putting the height, or approximate height, one story, in
there, if that's what your intention is.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO.
HANCHETT, Introduced by David Menter
seconded by Fred Carvin:
6-1995 CRAIG & DENISE
who moved for its adoption,
The applicant proposes to construct a one story two car garage,
13 feet from the property line, which is to replace an existing
garage, which is three feet from the property line. Section 179-
16C requires a 20 foot setback on the side. Therefore, the
applicant seeks relief of seven feet. The relief sought would
put the new garage closer to conformity than the existing garage.
It would appear to have no negative impact on the community. It
would be in character with the rest of the community. Because of
the size of this as well as the adjoining lots, it is not a self-
created hardship, and, again, this would be in character to the
adjoining lots and the rest of the community, and this would also
- 17 -
--
be minimum r~lief.
}'i
Duly
vote:
adopted this 15th day
,
of February, 1995',
by the following
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Ford, Mr. Meritèr,Mr. 'Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
AREA VARIANCE NO. 7-1995 TYPE II WR-1A CEA BARRIE HANDELMAN
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE CROOKED TREE POINT, ROUTE 9L, DUNHAM'S BAY
APPLICANT PROPOSES'!A FORTY;;"EIGHT (48) SQUARE FOOT EXTENSION OF AN
EXISTING 1,180 SQ. FT. 'OOCK. RELIEF IS SOUGHT FRoM SECTION 179-
60B(1)(b) WHICH REQUIRES A TWENTY (20) FOOT SETBACK FROM THE
ADJACENT PROPERTY LINE EXTENDED INTO THE LAKE, AND FURTHER STATES
THAT THE DOCf<AREA SHALL"'! NOT EX"CEED$El\fEN HUNDRED (700) SQUARE
FEET. (ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY) (LAKE GEORGE PARK COMMISSION)
(WARREN COUÑTY PLANNING) 2/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 3-1-14 LOT SIZE:
0.95 ACRES SECTION 179-60B(1)(b)[4] and [5]
MR. CARVIN-And we have a letter from the applicant requesting a
tabling until your March meeting.
MR. THOMAS-I'll read the letter. A letter dated February 3,
1995, "Dear Zoni ng EMard of Appeals: Would it be possible to
delay my appearancé b'efor'e your Zorri ngBoard from February 15,
1995 until your March 15, 1995 meeting? I will be out of the
Country for your February session. Thank you very much for your
consideration. Barrie Handelman"
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE
Introduced by Chris Thomas who
by Fred Carvin:
NO. 7-1995 BARRIE HANDELMAN,
moved for its adoption, seconded
Until the March 15, 1995 meeting. This means that any new
information requested by this Board must be submitted by the
filing deadline for that month. The reason for the tabling of
this application is at the request of the applicant.
Duly adopted this 15th day of February, 1995, by the following
vote:
MR. CARVIN-I would also like some clarification from Staff as to
exact location. I went out there, and I don't know if anybody
else went out and tried to look at this, but I had an extremely
difficult time deciding which piece of property I was looking at,
and I was chased off by a dog. So I wasn't about to exploring
around.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, if you'd like to use one of our four wheel
drive Queensbury trucks, I'd be glad to take you out there. This
is, if you're going up to the end of Bay Road, you go about four
tenths of a mile west. There's two sets of stone pillars with
driveways. The first set is not it. That's not plowed. The
second set that you come to was plowed, and you go down and
there's a circular drive, and it's possible to get back up. The
dock is, obviously, out in front of the house down a hill.
MR. CARVIN-Well, if you would, when the applicant returns, would
you indicate that they should put that bright orange or pink,
stress that to them, so that wè can all go out and visit that and
take a look at that particular,site.
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
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AREA VARIANCE NO. 8-1995 TYPE II SR-IA CHRISTINE C. SPINA
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE 423 RIDGE ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
ENLARGE AN EXISTING 480 SQ. FT. GARAGE VIA A 264 SQ. FT.
ADDITION. SECTION 179-19C REQUIRES A SIDE SETBACK OF TEN (10)
FEET. APPLICANT PROPOSES A THREE (3) FOOT SETBACK. (WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING) 2/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 55-2-24 LOT SIZE: 1.34
ACRES SECTION 179-19
CHRISTINE SPINA, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 8-1995, Christine C. Spina,
Meeting Date: February 15, 1995 "APPLICANT: Christine C. Spina
PROJECT LOCATION: 423 Ridge Road PROPOSED PROJECT: Applicant
pyoposes to enlarge an existing 480 square foot garage via a 264
square foot addition, which would be set back 3 feet from the
property line. CONFORMANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE: Section
179-19C ,-equi,-es a side setback of ten (10) feet, so applicant
seeks relief of seven (7) feet. STAFF FINDINGS (Prior to Public
Hearing): Applicant currently has a 22 ft. by 18 ft. attached
garage (396 sq. ft.) and a 20 ft. by 24 ft. detached garage (480
sq. ft.), which the building permit indicates was to be 10 feet
from the property line. There is also an additional storage
structure at the rear of the detached garage. PARCEL HISTORY:
This parcel was purchased by the applicant in January 1986. The
residence was constructed in 1986. SEQR: Type II, no further
action needed. STAFF COMMENTS AND CONCERNS: A copy of the
building permit map from 1988 is attached."
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board held
on the 8th day of February 1995, the above application for an
Area Variance to enlarge ao,existing 480 sq. ft. garage via a 264
sq. ft. addition. was reviewed and the following action was
taken. Recommendation to: No County Impact" Signed by Thomas
Haley, Chairperson.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is there anything that you'd care to add?
MS. SPINA-No. I think the application is self-explanatory.
MR. CARVIN-Any questions from the Board members?
MR. MENTER-Let me just clarify what we have there. Lets see,
there's currently a 22 by 18 attached garage, attached to the
house?
MS. SPINA-Yes.
MS. CIPPERLY-The reason I put the figures in there from the
building permits is that there is a discrepancy, in some cases,
with what's shown on the applicant's map. So, I figured for the
record it ought to be addressed. On the application it says it's
20 by 18 attached garage, and in the building permit it says 22
by 18. So I wanted to establish which it was.
MR. CARVIN-Any other questions, anybody?
a little history of how the two garages
got some of the files here, and I'm not
transactions.
Okay. Can you give me
got built, because I've
sure I follow all the
MS. SPINA-The tall garage that's attached to the house, I had
originally built when the house was constructed, a very small
garage (lost word) storage. The second garage, which Jeff had
built shortly after that was designed for vehicles and storage
(lost word). The proposal that I'm requesting was to really
extend the detached garage. It has nothing to do with the
attached garage. It's a mere extension of 12 feet, and that will
allow me to store my tractor and a few other things that would
have to be put in there. Currently, if you've all been to the
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site, currently it's Just a parking space right now.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I guess I'm looking at some of the '86 building
permit.
MS. SPINA-The '86 building permit was for the house, and along
with the house was this tall garage.
MR. CARVIN-Right. According to this, though, it was a two car
attached garage, but then th~re's a note to the file.
MS. SPINA-It was not a two car.
MR. CARVIN-Well, that's what it indicates here on the building
permit.
MS. CIPPERLY-It also indicates there that it was reduced to a one
car.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Yes, I was going to say, then
here that, "Will not build garage at this time.
car garage when built, probably Spring of '87."
built after the house.
there's a note
Will be a one
So this was
MS. SPINA-It was built When the house was constructed.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, in '86, and then in '88.
MS. SPINA-1988 was the two car detached.
MR. CARVIN-The two car detached. Well, it was applied as a two
car. This is what you're saying, Sue, is it was supposed to be
10 feet off the property line at that point?
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, in the building permit there, it says it was
to be 10 feet off the property line. So I don't know whethe1-,
when it was actually built, it was moved two feet over, or if
it's actually now 10 feet from the property line, and the one in
the building permit, I believe, was from a survey map.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. This is a survey.
MS. SPINA-I apologize. I'm not really aware of the discrepancy,
but Jeff Camerer built that garage, and you can ask him that
question. (Lost words) dimensions of thè detached garage.
JEFF CAMERER
MR. CAMERER-The detached garage will be 12 by (lost word). Right
now it's 15 feet away from the property line, the detached
garage.
MR. FORD-So if approved and built, you finally would wind up with
the equivalent of parking spaces within garages for the
equivalent of four cars?
MS. SPINA-The detached garage that's standing right now is truly
not a two car garage. Obviously, that's how it was applied for.
MR. FORD-Twenty feet wide.
MS. SPINA-The way it's constructed, two cars could not get into
that garage.
MS. CIPPERLY-You would end up with a 24 by 32 detached garage,
plus the.
MR. FORD-Plus the attached one car?
MS. CIPPERLY-Right.
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MR. CARVIN-Well, if my math is correct, between the garages that
you currently have, I'm coming up with, what, 876 square feet.
MR. KARPELES-Yes, that's what ~ got.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. MENTER-We're talking about 264.
MR. CARVIN-On top of that. So we're talking in excess of the 900
squ.are feet.
MR. MENTER-Right, which is another issue.
MR. CARVIN-Which is a whole other issue.
MR. MENTER-Because there's a 900 squ.are foot limit on garage
space.
MS. SPINA-The lean-to that's attached to the detached garage, the
current detached garage, is going to be coming down with this
extension (lost word).
MR. CARVIN-Well, that's not even taken into consideration. I'm
assuming that we've got a 20 by 24, 480 square feet, one and a
half, two car garage of some size or dimension, at least 480
square feet there, and then there's another, whatever the
difference is to the attached. That looks like it's a 22 by.
MR. THOMAS-Eighteen by twenty, three hundred and sixty square
feet.
MR. CARVIN-Three hundred and sixty.
MS. CIPPERLY-That was another discrepancy. The attached one in
the permit is 18 by 22, but on the application it's 18 by 20. So
I don't know which one they're going to use.
MR. CARVIN-So we really don't know, but we're talking real close
to the 900 square feet. So, I don't know what the Board's
pleasure is on this one.
MR. MENTER-Well, why is there no alternatives to that location,
if you were to expand that, if you wanted to add that space and
needed that space, why couldn't you go in another direction with
it?
MS. SPINA-Economically, it would be much more favorable to extend
the current detached garage. Obviously, you can enlarge the
current detached garage by ripping the roof and doing things that
would cost quite a bit more money.
MR. MENTER-Well, my question is, why go south? I mean, why on
that side of the building? You couldn't go on the opposite side?
MS. SPINA-Because there's already a parking space there, and I
guess I was trying to utilize the driveway, which extends to that
corner portion of the property. If you were at the property, if
you traveled up the driveway, the driveway actually continues
straight right to (lost word).
MR. CAMERER-To the left of that detached garage (lost word).
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, they're showing a leach field
here.
MR. FORD-This is a single family structure, correct?
MS. SPINA-Yes.
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MR. CARVIN-Any other questions?
heat- i ng.
Okay.
I'll open the public
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
AUDREY CRIMSKI
MRS. CRIMSKI-Audrey Crimski, I'm the neighbor to the south, that
this property line will be very close to. One of the reasons
that we bought was for the open space. We don't have that
anymore. On one side we've got an ápartment house that you had
built, and the parking lot is right up on our, to the edge of our
line. We've got cars going in and out of there all the time. On
the other side, Chris and Jeff have built the garage, but of more
concern to me is the truck. He has a large truck that he uses
for the business, and in the morning, you put clothes out on the
line, they smell like diesel fuel because he has to let it run
for a while. I don't think thatœs good fOT the kids to be
around, and not only that, but if you're going to build it up to
three feet from my property line, and the roof is high on that,
I'm worried about ice and stuff coming off that roof, hurting my
kids or damaging other stuff. She's got plenty of room. She can
go back further or go to the side, you know, move her leach field
or whatnot, but I don't feel that I should be penalized by this.
MS. CIPPERLY-If the garage were extended to the back, Mrs.
Crimski, if it were, would that obstruct your view? I notice
there's quite a.
MRS. CRIMSKI-It would, but not as much as it is now. I'm mean,
they've got that. Now he says 12 feet. I don't know, but after
it was surveyed they paved it over so quick, and I've always kind
of doubted the boundary line anyway, but if he comes out 12 feet,
I'm afraid they're going to be on to ou.r property. Once that's
set, what can we do? Nothing.
MS. SPINA-I can assure you, that's not the case.
MRS. CRIMSKI-But I mean, you know, I think there should be some
consideration for neighbors. I mean, my kids can't even play on
that side of the house without problems.
MR. CARVIN-Is there a fence that goes up along the back?
MRS. CRIMSK1-Yes, there is.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Is that on your property line?
MRS. CRIMSKI-Well, it's on the property line, but.
MS. SPINA-It's away from the property line. It's to the left of
the property line. The survey was done, and it's one foot left
of the property line.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, but I know when I was out there I did notice
kind of a large tt-uck and also, I guess, a Scout or a Jeep type,
Rodeo. I'm not real good on those four wheél drives.
MS. SPINA-The big large truck is Jeff's work truck, and the Rodeo
is his personal truck. My car is in the little garage that's
attached to the house.
MRS. CRIMSKI-But the work truck is there all the time, every
weekend. It's there. So, like, during the Balloon Festival and
stuff we can't see anything. He's got the truck and that big
garage.
MS. SPINA-Well, I had to put the garage somewhere, and that was
really the only place I could put the garage, because the
blacktopping was always a part of my plan when I purchased the
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property. Paving was something I wanted to do before I purchased
the property. Moving the leach field, I don't think I want to
get involved with doing that.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any othe)- questions? Any other comments?
MS. SPINA-I'd like to make one other comment, that, visually,
what the neighbors have to look at right now is identical with
what they'd have to look at if this were approved. . It's only a
12 foot extension of what they're already looking at, without the
truck. The diesel, my brother comes up and visits me all the
time and unfortunately he has a diesel vehicle, too. My sister
has a diesel car and a van. I honestly don't know how to control
what happens to the air.
MRS. CRIMSKI-It's just that if you live in a
don't feel that you should, on a daily basis,
fuel, and I mean, it billows. It's not a
billows. It will billow into the kitchen.
smells like diesel.
residential area, I
have to have diesel
small amount. It
I mean, the laundry
MS. SPINA-I don't really want to belabor this subject, but I
don't think that's the matter here.
MR. CARVIN-Will the truck be stored in the new addition?
MS. SPINA-No. The truck is going to be located to another area.
That's what we've been trying to do is find a home for the truck.
MR. CAMERER-It's 24 feet long. It's an eight ton truck.
MR. CARVIN-How many automobiles do you currently have right now?
MS. SPINA-Two.
MR. CARVIN-Two plus the truck?
MS. SPINA-Yes. The addition is going to be primarily for the
snow blower, tractor, that type of equipment.
MR. FORD-If that is the case, then is there any reason that you
might not consider locating that with a 90 degree turn back of
the existing two car garage, or single car, but that detached
garage? In other words, if you came down, as you face the right
side of that, of the detached garage, and built this, in essence,
shed, on the back side of that. Therefore, you would not be
coming any closer to the line than you would be right now.
MS. SPINA-You're talking about building in back of the current
garage?
MR. FORD-That's correct.
MS. SPINA-That would be taking up a lot of property space that I
would rather not tie, I would rather not do that, if I didn't
have to, plus then there would be no chance of ever (lost word).
I'd like to be able to have some flexibility. If I understand
you correctly, the extension, instead of being to the side of the
current two car garage, it would be to the back of it. To get to
that, if I ever did want to use it for parking, which I (lost
word). Plus there's a (lost word).
MR. FORD-It would be a 12 foot extension off the back of your
current garage.
MS. SPINA-That would not be a favorable (lost word).
MR. FORD-But it wouldn't require a variance, in terms of coming
closer to the line.
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MS. SPINA-No.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions of the applicant? Any
other public comment?
TOM CRIMSKI
MR. CRIMSKI-My name's Tom Crimski. I think my reasons for
opposition are different from my wife's, and they're also
personal and private, and I have not explained those, as yet, to
Chris and Jeff, and I think I owe them that, but I also think
it's not something for the Board. It's more something that I
need to speak with them about in private, but I have strong
feelings that are different from my wife's. My wife has her own
thoughts about it, but I've got mine too, and I think that, I
know my mind clearly about what I want to say, but I think it's
personal. I think it's private, and I think it's between me and
them.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Then I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any comments or questions from the Board?
MR. THOMAS-The only comment !'ve got is I don't think I could
approve the addition going that ~Jay, toward that property line.
I think it is an encumberment on the property next door, and I
think there is an alternative to put it on the back of the garage
or on the north side of the garage, even offset it from the
septic tank, but I think that three feet to that pToperty line is
too close to the neighbor, and I think that addition on there,
too, brings it way over the 900 square feet for a garage, even
though it would be a "shed".
MR. CARVIN-I have a hard time with that, also.
MR. KARPELES-I don't see how
minimum variance to be given.
we can approve it.
That's about it.
It's
not the
MR. MENTER-I agree. It wouldn't be the minimum relief, and I
don't think they've shown us there's no alternatives.
MR. FORD-I feel there are alternatives to be explored. I'm
concerned about coming that close to the property line, and I'm
also concerned about an issue that we have taken up several times
in the last couple of months, and that is exceeding the 900
square feet for garage space.
MR. CARVIN-Well, those are, essentially, my comments, also. I
have a hard time wi th the 900 square feet. I also have a han:l
time with the line placement three feet. You've mirrored my
comments exactly, I guess, to summarize. Okay. If there are no
other comments, I'd ask for a motion.
MOTION TO DENY AREA VARIANCE NO. 8-1995 CHRISTINE C. SPINA,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
The applicant is proposing to ènlarge an existing 480 square foot
garage via a 264 square foot addition, which would be set back
three feet from the property line. Section 179-19C requires a
side setback of 10 feet. The relief that the applicant is
requesting and the additional square footage that they're
proposing would be in addition to an attached garage which is an
additional approximately 396 square feet. So, in essence, the
applicant is proposing to add 264 square feet 'of additional
garage space to an existing 876 square feet, which would be in
excess of the current 900 square foot allowable garage space. If
we were to grant this Area Variance, we would be creating an
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undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood, and
creating possible detriments to nearby properties. It would also
appear that the benefit being sought by the applicant, which may
be storage, and not necessarily parking, could be achieved by
other means available. Because of the total square footage of
the garage space being requested, this certainly would be maximum
relief and a long ways from minimum relief. It would appear that
the alleged difficulty is self-created and not any fault of the
Ordinance or the property layout.
Duly adopted this 15th day of February, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Ford, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I think that's the end of the Official agenda.
MR. THOMAS-We've got one other thing we've got to do.
MR. CARVIN-What's that?
MR. THOMAS-The thing there for the Town Board, regarding William
Threw Lead Agency thing.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. Okay. I'm assuming that everybody received the
letter from the Town Board requesting. I don't have a problem
with the Town Board taking Lead Agency Status.
MR. THOMAS-Well, let me read their resolution into our record, so
we know what they're doing.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. THOMAS-"RESOLUTION REGARDING LEAD AGENT FOR USE VARIANCE
APPLICATION FILED BY WILLIAM E. THREW
RESOLUTION NO. 104.95
INTRODUCED BY: Mrs. Betty Monahan WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mrs. Carol Pulver
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury has been
notified that a SEQRA )"eview is about to be commenced by the
Zoning Board of Appeals in connection with a use variance
application filed by William E. Threw in connection with a
commercial landfill located on Eagan Road in the Town of
Queensbu)"y, and
WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals has indicated its desire to
commence a coordinated SEQRA Review process and it desires to be
lead agency for purposes of review and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury is also a
permitting agency for landfills under the Code of the Town of
Queensbury and also desires to be lead agency for purposes of the
SEQRA Review,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
indicates that it consents to a coordinated SEQRA review but
advises the Zoning Board of Appeals that it desires to be the
lead agents and would like to receive a resolution from the
Zoning Board of Appeals indicating its consent to the Town Boards
request to be a lead agent.
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Duly adopted this 6th day of January, 1995 by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Monahan, Mr. Caimano, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Champagne
NOES: NONE
ABSTAIN: Mr. Turner
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So I guess we need to make a motion.
MR. THOMAS-I think we have to make a motion to rescind our.
MR. MENTER-How about some background, here, for my benefit.
MR. KARPELES-Yes. What's behind all this?
MS. CIPPERLY-The Town Board has to issue a permit in order for
someone to have a landfill or dump. So they are an involved
agency, and they have the right to take lead agency status. If
the Zoning Board felt strongly about it, they could try to take
lead agency status, but it probably.
MR. MENTER-But did the Zoning Board request lead agency status?
I missed that.
MS. CIPPERLY-Well, it came, really, to the Zoning Board because
of the Use Variance, and that would have been the next step, as
far as the Zoning Board goes, is to do the SEQRA review. So as
far as the notice goes, you send it to~ DEC is also a permitting
agency, but they apparently don't want lead agency status. In
fact, we have a letter on file to that effect, but the Town Board
does. So the Town Board is going to undertake the SEQRA review,
which could include requiring an Environmental Impact Statement.
MR. KARPELES-Well, what happens to, we got it by
originally? What happens to the use variance?
until this?
a use variance,
Is that delayed
MS. CIPPERLY-Right.
MR. KARPELES-So we don't have to table that or anything like
that? It's just automatically delayed?
MR. CARVIN-Yes, and I think the Town Board, it would still come
back, even after the Town Board, right? Because they would refer
it back, if the use variance was still needed.
MR. KARPELES-It might not even be needed?
MR. CARVIN-It might not come back. If the Town Board decides to
change the Ordinance, or makes approval, then it may not come
back, but if it still requires a use variance, it would come
back. We have to make a motion to rescind our original motion.
MOTION THAT WE WITHDRAW OUR LEAD AGENCY STATUS ON USE VARIANCE
NO. 4-1995 WILLIAM E. THREW. AND THAT THE TOWN BOARD BE THE LEAD
AGENCY FOR THIS SEQRA., Introduced by Chris Thomas who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Fred Carvin:
Duly adopted this 15th day of February, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ford, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Maresco
MR. CARVIN-I just have a couple of other bookkeeping items, I
guess. Charles Barber, that's still tabled, is that correct?
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MS. CIPPERLY-There should be a letter in the box withdrawing. It
may be still on my desk. They did submit a letter asking that,
they're going to withdraw their application. I can bring that
letter next week.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
agreement off?
Were they able to come to some kind of
MS. CIPPERLY-No, they were not.
different piece of property.
They've decided to build on a
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So that one will be closed eventually.
MS. CIPPERLY-Yes. I'll bring that letter next week.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and then I had one here on a Gary D'Angelo,
which was an area variance from July of '94.
MR. THOMAS-That was that shed.
MS. CIPPERLY-He decided to build a conforming shed. I also had a
list of.
MR. CARVIN-I just never had anything come through, or I didn't
see anything. I kept it in my file. Okay. So that one also has
been withdrawn. Okay. It looks like our tabling file is in good
shape.
MS. CIPPERLY-Paul Dusek will be here next week. You can ask him
what the procedure is. I'm not sure whether the Zoning Board
makes a recommendation to the Town Board, but it is the Town
Board that would appoint a Chairman. Also, as a housekeeping
matter, I had written up a list of sort of outstanding
applications. You do have that?
MR. KARPELES-Yes, we've got it.
MS. CIPPERLY-The Mooring Post's Area Variance application needs
to be tabled, if the Board would like to do that, or you can ask
them to withdraw it.
MR. CARVIN-They've got a suit going against the Town.
think they've ever applied for an Area Variance.
I don't
MS. CIPPERLY-They applied for the Area Variance, but it can't be
considered until the Use Variance is applied for, but it was out
there, and rather than have it approved by default, due to
timeframes being exceeded, the Board needs to do something,
either, for instance, table it for 60 days, or you could ask the
applicant if he'd be willing to withdraw it until the Use
Variance is applied for.
MR. CARVIN-I don't know.
guess I have no reaction
tàble the Area Variance.
Use Variance.
What's the Board's pleasure on this? I
on it one way or the other, whether to
I mean, it's not moving ahead without a
MR.
That
and
more
THOMAS-I think we should
way we aren't confined
keep withdrawing, make
days.
ask the applicant to withdraw it.
to the 60 days, and have to go back
a motion to keep tabling it for 60
MR. CARVIN-That's probably a good suggestion.
MR. MENTER-It sounds like a good idea. Where are we now?
MR. CARVIN-We're probably 30 days, anyway. Does that sound good
to you, Sue?
MS. CIPPERLY-Sure. I can write up a letter and have you sign it,
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I guess, as Acting Chairman.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and have them withdraw it until the Use
Variance.
MR. MENTER-Sounds like a good plan.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other business? If
business or comments, I will officially
closed, or ask for adjournment.
there is no
declare the
other
meeting
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Fred Carvin, Acting Chairman
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