1996-02-21
r-
ORIGINAL
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 21, f 9~6
INDEX
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Area Variance No. 88-1995
Tax Map No. 107-1-54
Richard B. Slote
c/o King Fuels
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Area Variance No. 1-1996
Tax Map No. 153-1-9
Herbert Heineman, Jr.
Area Variance No. 2-1996
Tax Map No. 21-1-4
Richard & Jill Long
Area Variance No. 75-1995
Discussion Item
Alfred & Mary Ellen ~ristensen
1.
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I .
16.
23.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON TH~'FÓLLO~ING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL ,OF ~AID
MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 21, 1996
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
FRED CARVIN, CHAIRMAN
CHRIS THOMAS, SECRETARY
ROBERT KARPELES
WILLIAM GREEN
BONNIE LAPHAM
DAVID MENTER
MEMBERS ABSENT
THOMAS FORD
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. MARTIN-If I might, I just want to take an opportunity to
introduce everybody to George Hilton. George is a new Assistant
Planner in our office. He'll be direct staff to the Board from
now on. Sue has gone on to help us with our long term planning,
the Comprehensive Plan we want to really try and focus on that.
So you'll be seeing George quite often, myself, and Sue will be
in on occasion to try and rotate the meetings through, but a lot
of the staff work and applications will be accomplished by
George.
MR. CARVIN-Welcome aboard, George, and good luck.
MR. HILTON-Thank you very much.
OLD BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 88-1995 TYPE II HC-1A RICHARD B. SLOTE c/o
KING FUELS OWNER: THE KING SERVICE, INC. CORNER OF QUAKER AND
BAY ROADS APPLICANT SEEKS TO LOCATE A PORTABLE SHED ON THEIR BAY
ROAD PROPERTY, WHICH NEEDS RELIEF FROM SECTION 179-67A(3),
ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, WHICH REQUIRES A 10 FT. SETBACK FROM THE
REAR LINE, AND 50 FT. SEPARATION TO ANOTHER BUILDING. THIS
CORNER LOT IS CONSIDERED TO HAVE TWO FRONT YARDS AND TWO REAR
YARDS. SECTION 179-29C, TRAVEL CORRIDOR OVERLAY ZONE, REQUIRES A
75 FT. FRONT YARD SETBACK AND SECTION 179-23, HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL,
REQUIRES A 25 FT. REAR SETBACK. RELIEF IS SOUGHT FROM BOTH
SECTIONS. WARREN COUNTY PLANNING 12/13/95 TAX MAP NO. 107-1-54
LOT SIZE: 0.82 ACRES SECTION 179-29C, 179-67A(3), 179-23
RICHARD B. SLOTE, PRESENT
MR. CARVIN-And I believe this was tabled.
tabling?
Do yoU have the
MR. THOMAS-Yes, I do.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Why don't yOU read that.
MR. THOMAS-The meeting date was December 20, 1995, Variance File
No. is 88-1995. "MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 88-1995
RICHARD B. SLOTE C/O KING FUELS, Introduced by Fred Carvin who
moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
To allow the applicant a little additional time to come up with
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(Cueensbury Zoning Board of App~als 2/21/96)
some additional information as
submitting a proper variance.
to possibly
re-siting or
Duly adopted this 20th day of December, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Ford, Mr. Thomas,
Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Gì"een, Mr. C;.HV in
NOES: NONE" Signed, Fred A. Carvin, Chairman
MR. CARVIN-Okay. If memory serves correct, we tabled this to
give you a chance to consult with some consultants about re-
locating the shed, and I'm assuming that you have accomplished
such. I have seen some correspondence on that.
MR. SLOTE-We talked to the New York state DEC, and they left it
entirely up to us as long we had the system in operation, unless
it was under re-construction. I talked to Longworth
Environmental, having toured the site with me, the location that
the shed is in is maximum efficiency using the least amount of
elbows to pipe it. So then we called in a carpenter and we tried
to see what we could do to make the shed as unobtTusive as
possible. Did you receive copies of this?
MR. CARVIN-I have received, I think, just a letter dated January
23rd.
MR. MARTIN-I think George has some copies for you.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. SLOTE-The shed that is currently there is approximately seven
and ~ half feet high, and it does stand out. What we're hoping
you'll allow us to do is take it away, and then rebuild the
building at five foot height with a flat roof. We think it's
very unobtrusive, and minimal visibility.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. If memory also serves correct, I think you'd
indicated this might be of a temporary nature.
MR. SLOTE-We're hoping that it's a year to two years, maximum
duration. It's in operation as we speak, and from what I hear
from the environmentalists, it's doing a very good job of
cleaning the situation.
MR. KARPELES-You're saying a year to two years from now?
MR. SLOTE-Or from its inception.
I'd say, three months ago.
We started the system about,
MR. CARVIN-Well, I thought it wés longer than that. For some
reason, I'm thinking this was back in June or July.
MRS. LAPHAM-I thought it was last summer that it was started.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I thought it was last summer.
MR. SLOTE-I think we installed it then, but the opeTation, the
system was started, operated in maybe early fall.
MRS. LAPHAM-And then it was supposed to be like a year, and now
it's a year to two years.
MR. SLOTE-I
me an exact
We' 're hopi ng
possible.
can't guarantee, the environmentalists wouldn't give
date on when the contamination would be cleaned.
for a year. We want to have it out as soon as
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(Cueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any other questions of the applicant?
MR. MARTIN-Just for the Board's consideration, you may consider a
timetable of approval, asking the applicant to come back in a
year and provide a status report.
MR. SLOTE-Can I offer something? New York State DEC produce
every three months a brochure or booklet on exactly what the
status is, and we provide it to them every three months. I could
copy the Board if you'd like.
MR. MARTIN-That's up to the Board.
MR. KARPELES-It would
and a hard place. I
choice but to grant
everything that could
pQssible, lowering it.
too?
appear to me that they're between a rock
really don't see where we have too much
this, and I think that they're doing
be done by making it as unobtrusive as
Are you going to plant shrubs around it,
MR. SLOTE-Well, I don't want
them to try and hide it,
everyone.
to offend anybody. Either plant
not plant them, whatever pleases
MR. KARPELES-And I really don't think it's too bad right now. I
never did think it was bad, but since it's a temporary nature, I
think I'd go along with approving it.
MR. MENTER-What was the extent of the discussion as to the
alternatives to that location? Was it simply, this was the most
efficient, or are there any dollars involved?
MR. SLOTE-There are a lot of dollars involved, but also the only
other spot that we could put it might be close to being as
efficient as it now is to put it alongside the building where the
restrooms are, have it come out from there, and it would be
parking lot, and add two more elbows.
MR. MARTIN-Does the efficiency have anything to do with the
length of time that this will be up? In other words, if you
lower the efficiency then this facility has to be there longer?
MR. SLOTE-It adds to the length of time to Temediate the
contamination.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. MENTER-I pretty much agree with Bob. You have something that
is a necessary evil. We're just trying to mitigate the effects
of that structure. There may be some other ideas. I'm thinking,
mechanically, even though we haven't really seen anything or
spoken with anybody, I think we could probably prove that that is
the best place for it.
MR. CARVIN-What is the operation, again, of this?
air into the ground, is that my understanding?
This forces
MR. SLOTE-It's what's called a sparge system. It forces air into
the ground just underneath the (lost words) which dislodges any
petroleum particles that appear to be part of the earth. That
brings it up above the water table, the petroleum floats on
water, and we have suction lines that come into a filter system
and separate it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, but this tends to run all on a vacuum, does it?
MR. SLOTE-Well, there's a pump that forces the air in, a
compressor, and a vacuum that pulls it out.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
vacuum system,
difference?
Now, I understand the elbows, but I mean, on a
I don't know that, it makes that big of a
MR. SLOTE-I'll be honest with you. I'm not an engineer. I'm
only going by what Longworth Environmental told me.
MR. CARVIN-And they had indicated that they had no preference as
to the location, is that correct, or did they have an objection
to putting this into compliance? What did they exactly say?
Maybe I misunderstood your original statement.
MR. SLOTE-They think this is the spot for maximum efficiency.
That's why we put it there in the first place.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Have they docu~ented that?
MR. SLOTE-I don't know if I have anything with me in that regard.
MR. CARVIN-If we're just talking air and water here, how big of a
pipe are we talking? I mean, is it an inch, a two inch, a five
inch?
MR. SLOTE-I think they're probably two inch pipes.
MR. CARVIN-See, I guess I'm not totally convinced that, by
elbowing this' thing or bringing it into compliance, that that's
going to be that detrimental. Now, again, I'm a long ways from a
plumber.
MR. MENTER-I mean, could it be as simple
of the compressor, or the vacuum unit,
units?
as an issue of the size
the capacity of those
MR. SLOTE-I do know that they've got some pretty substantial
equipment there compared to other sites that they're remediating.
MR. CARVIN-Has this been buried under the blacktop, is it?
MR. SLOTE-AII piping is buried, yes.
MR. CARVIN-All right. So you had to dig up the blacktop to put
the piping down, and then cover it up?
MR. SLOTE-Re-blacktop it, yes. I have a letter from Longworth to
New York State DEC, dated June 16, 1995. It's a Reader's Digest
version of what the system is supposed to do. It (lost word)
right now to 16 different sparge points.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I don't know, is there anything that maybe we
can read into the record here?
MR. THOMAS-I think I read that letter in.
MR. CARVIN-I've got a letter from ENCON.
MR. THOMAS-Is that dated June 16th?
MR. CARVIN-16 June, yes.
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
I think I read that letter into the record.
Yes. This one we already have.
MR. SLOTE-As I said, I'm not an engineer, a geologist.
MR. CARVIN-When was the last time you talked to Longworth
Environmental?
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. SLOTE-I talk to them almost every day. Just when they
it out, they did it with as few elbows in it as they could.
also had a representative of DEC go down and look at it, and
couldn't come up with any valuable suggestions on it. I do
that with the shed being lowered and a flat roof, it really
be half as noticeable.
laid
They
they
feel
will
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
MR. GREEN-I didn't have a real problem to begin with, and I think
we're going to talk three feet off the top of this if we build
the shed, some bushes around it. I mean, that's not even as tall
as a person standing out there. Originally there was a dumpster
there or something. It's not going to be any taller than that.
I think the problem really arose from the gentleman next door at
the insurance company didn't like to look over the bushes and see
the top of the shed. I think this is going to pretty much
alleviate that problem, and long as maybe we, say a year from
now, and see what sort of results, how it's working on the
ground. If, a year from now, it's still going to be another two
or three years, we may have to look at something else, but I
don't, you know, I'd rather see it back there then stuck off the
side of the building, personally.
MRS. LAPHAM-I tend to agree with Bill. As I said, I didn't
really have a problem with it to begin with. I thought it was
very neat, the way it was positioned, until the neighbor came
forth, and then I thought well maybe I should look at it from his
point of view. If I had a building there, how would L feel?
With it lowered, and if the shrubs are around it so that he sees
green and not the building, I don't think there should be a
problem, and I still firmly feel like I did the last time, that
if we're cleaning up pollution, that should carry quite a heavy
weight, even though, you know, in the record, DEC can go on
for ever.
MR. THOMAS-Last meeting I asked why that shed couldn't be moved
down into one of those parking spaces, since the existing shed is
eight by ten, I believe.
MR. SLOTE-Eight by eight.
MR. THOMAS-Eight by eight, the existing one, moved down into one
of the parking spaces on the back, in line, since the vapor
extraction line is only 10 feet off the building, which would put
it right in the center of one of those parking spaces. So they
could move it closer. If they moved it closer, it seems to me it
would be more efficient to be there in less time, but Bill
mentioned that putting that small building right next to the
existing building wouldn't look very good, and I do like the idea
of lowering it down to the five feet and planting shrubs around
it and leaving it right where it is. So, I would have no problem
with the new plan there, with the eight by eight shed five foot
high, flat roof.
MR. SLOTE-Don't say flat. It'll have some pitch.
MR. THOMAS-Well, it'll have some pitch to it.
MR. CARVIN-I don't remember if I had a public hearing opened or
closed on this.
MR. MARTIN-I think it was open.
MR. CARVIN-Was it open? Okay. So I'll open up the public
hearing if there's any additional public comment with regard to
this application.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARVIN-Any additional correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes, from the Warren County Planning Board. "At a
meeting of the Warren County Planning Board held on the 10th day
of January, 1996, the above application for an Area Variance to
construct an eight by eight Adirondack motif shed on existing
concrete slab for approximately one year was reviewed and the
following action was taken. Recommendation to: Approve
Comments: Concur with local conditions." Signed by C. powel
South, Chairperson, and a letter from King Fuels, dated December
20, 1995, addressed to me. "Please accept this as a notice that
Mr. Greg Sherry is an agent of the cooperation and is authorized
to represent our company concerning the above mentioned variance
request." Signed by Richard B. Slate, Vice President, King
Fuels. A letter dated J8nuary 23, 1996, addressed to Mr. Carvin.
"1 would like to update the Zoning Board of Appeals on the
progress we have made to site the extraction system located on
our property at Quaker & Bay Roads. King Fuels has hired
Longworth Environmental to consult with DEC in order to review
the system's placement and any possible location options. We
have requested that both Mr. Longworth and DEC report their
recommendations to the Board of Appeals as soon as possible. 1
do not know the exact date that these recommendations will be
made, however I will work with both parties to have the necessary
information to your board in order to meet your next scheduled
meeting in February, 1996. Please contact me if you have any
questions. Sincerely, THE KING SERVICE, INC. Richard B. Slate
Vice President" And that does it.
MR. CARVIN-That does it? Okay. If there's no additional public
comment, then I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-We've pretty much got everybody's. I'll entertain a
motion. Whoever makes the motion, I would like to look at this,
it's only prudent that we review this at least annually, and I
think that any shed that is built or any motion that is made that
upon completion or DEC's approval, that the area's cleaned up,
that the shed be removed. Is that okay.
MR. SLOTE-Yes.
I'm. CARVIN-Okay. So havi ng made !1J.Y.. comments, I would encourage a
motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 88-1995
KING FUELS, Introduced by David Menter
adoption, seconded by Robert Karpeles:
RICHARD B. SLOTE C/O
who moved for ltS
Applicant is seeking to locate a portable shed on the Bay Road
property which needs relief from Section 179-67A, accessory
structures requiring a 10 foot setback from the rear line and 50
foot separation to another building. This corner lot is
considered to have two front yards and two rear yards. Section
179-28C, Travel Corridor Overlay Zone, requires a 75 foot fTont
yard setback, and 179-23, Highway Commercial, requires a 25 foot
rear setback, therefore relief is sought from both of these
sections. Applicant is under peculiar circumstances, due to
Department of Environmental Conservation intervention and a prior
spill situation that they have, and their necessity to clean that
uP. using specific mechanical means. Althou~h 'the proper
channels were not originally used in constructing this system, in
terms of zoníng, it appears tha't theyeis little; 'ålt'erna-t.ive to
the curnmt configuratí6n.' 'Applicant has off'ered to ,reducé the
size of the shed to elit'nt nate: the visual impact. 1'heex isti ng
_. 6-
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
structure will be removed and a new structure not to exceed five
feet will be constructed on the same slab. The replacement of
the shed is to be completed by April 1, 1996. We would also
require that the applicant, upon completion of the shed, plant
shrubs to as much as possible obscure the view of the shed. In
addition, the applicant will supply to the Board its own report,
generated quarterly, on the performance of the system. In
addition, the applicant will appear before this Board the first
February meeting in 1997 to review the status of this variance
and its continuance if necessary. This action would appear to
constitute the least affects on the neighborhood and community,
given the short term nature of the need. In addition, upon
notice of completion of the required decontamination by DEC, this
variance will be void, and the shed will be immediately removed
by the applicant. That we're granting 20 feet from the south
property line. The shed is five feet off the property line right
now. So grant 20 feet of relief from the south property, and 20
feet from the front property. He needs 25 feet from the south
property. He's got five, and he's 55 feet where he needs 75.
The shed is not to be moved an inch from where it is right now.
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
MR. SLOTE-Could I ask one question? If the winter is still
severe in April, can I have until some time in May to do this?
MR. CARVIN-Why don't
You've got five weeks.
problem.
we cross that bridge
It's not a big shed.
when we get to it.
It shouldn't be a
MR. SLOTE-No. The shed isn't a problem. I was thinking about
the shrubbeì-Y.
MR. CARVIN-Well, obviously, the shrubbery you
whenever. I think we're more concerned about
down"
can't plant until
getting the shed
MR. MARTIN-The Enforcement Officer will be by. I think you know
Mr. Goralski?
MR. SLOTE-Yes, sir.
MR. MARTIN-He'll be by, and that's something you can work out
with him if weather permits.
MR. SLOTE-Thank you.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green,
Mr. Menter, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So we'll see you next year.
MR. SLOTE-And I promise we'll have it out sooner than you think.
MR. CARVIN-Good. We're going to hold you to that. Okay.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 1-1996 TYPE II WR-1A
JR. OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE MAYFLOWER
ROAD), NEXT TO LAST HOUSE ON THE RIGHT
CEA HERBERT HEINEMAN,
LANE, (OFF PILOT KNOB
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
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(Cueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION TO SINGLE FAMILY HOME WHICH REQUIRES RELIEF
FROM THE SIDE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS IN SECTION 179-16. CROSS REF.
SPR 3-96 ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY WARREN COUNTY PLANNING:
2/14/96 TAX MAP NO. 153-1-9 LOT SIZE: 0.66 ACRES SECTION:
179-16
SEAN MCDONALD, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 1-1996, Herbert Heineman,
Jr., Meeting Date: February 21, 1996 "PROPOSED PROJECT AND
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE: The applicant is proposing to
build a 280 square foot addition to his home which will contain a
bedroom, bathroom and a laundry room. This addition will not
meet the required side setbacks required by Section 179-16.
CRITERIA FOR CONSIDERING AN AREA VARIANCE. ACCORDING TO CHAPTER
267, TOWN LAW. 1. BENEFIT TO THE APPLICANT: The applicant
states that this addition will provide additional living space
for his family. 2. FEASIBLE ALTERNATIVES: One possible
alternative would be for the applicant to attach the addition to
another area of the house which would not be in violation of any
setbacks on the property. One such area would be the front of
the home at the north end of the home. 3. IS THIS RELIEF
SUBSTANTIAL RELATIVE TO THE ORDINANCE? The relief is 55% of the
requirement. 4. EFFECTS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY? An
addition to this home in the proposed location may have an impact
on the owner of the property to the south's view of Lake George.
Comments on other possible impacts may come up at the public
hearing. 5. IS THIS DIFFICULTY SELF-CREATED? No. This lot
which contains .66 acres is located in a zone (W~-1A) where the
minimum lot size is one acre. With any type of expansion on this
lot it would be difficult to maintain the required setbacks.
PARCEL HISTORY: This property, which was purchased by the
current owner in 1992, received site plan approval for a bathroom
dormer above the garage on June 23, 1992. STAFF COMMENTS AND
CONCERNS: At the time of site plan review for the bathroom
dormer both staff and the ZBA had concerns about allowing
building expansion which would over stress the property and the
lake. The Board should determine what effect this expansion
would have on adjacent property owners and if there are any
alternatives to expansion in this location. SEQR: Type II, no
further action required."
MR. THOMAS-"At a meeting of the WaTren County Planning Board held
on the 14th day of February 1996, the above application for an
Area Variance to construct a 14' x 23' addition to an existing
home for a bedroom and bathroom/laundry. was reviewed and the
following action was taken. Recommendation to: No County
Impact. II Signed by C.' powel South, Cha,iì-person.
MR. CARVIN-I just need some clarification. This came before the
ZBA in 1992?
MR. THOMAS-June 23rd.
MR. HILTON-The bathroom.
MR. CARVIN-I'm talking about the bathroom, yes.
MR. HILTON-Which is above the garage.
MR. THOMAS-June 23, 1992 was the site plan approval.
MR. CARVIN-Was it just sIte plan approval, or did it get a
variance?
MR. HILTON-There was a variance and they came in with a site plan
- 8 -
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
review in addition to that variance.
MR. GARVIN-Boy" I don't r,emember this. I've got a variance in
'88.
MR. MENTER-That was an expansion in '88.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I was trying to get the history on this clear in
my mind. All right. There's something here dated July 20, 1988
that says Fred and Carol Ducey. "This is a nonconfoì-ming
expansion of five feet and will be no closer to the property
line. .,... The garage will not be used for sleeping." And I'm
assuming that that must have been a ZBA determination back in
1988.
MR. HILTON-Yes. I have in my hand a related file. It was Area
Variance No. 13-81. Then the resolution is dated July 20, 1988.
I also have here a file, Site Plan No. 29-92, which is dated June
23, 1992, and a motion to build a five by eight bathroom dormer
on a playroom above the garage.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. That's a site plan, right?
MR. HILTON-Right.
MR. CARV~N-And that WaS by the Planning Board.
MR. HILTON-Yes, but the variance that was before the Board was in
1988 .
MR. CARVIN-It was in '88?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. MENTER-But that variance is for a different project, isn't
it?
MR. CARVIN--Yes.
MR. MCDONALD-Excuse me. I'm Sean McDonald. I'm his agent, and I
believe Mrs. Ducey owned the property then. She applied for that
variance, and what they had was a whole garage right there, and
they made it into a little bit larger garage. I believe ~hey
made their garage a little bit larger and bigger, and they
expanded to the side lot line a couple of feet more, so they
could fit two cars in it. I think that's what the 1988 was. The
one that was three years ago for the dormer bathroom addition, we
applied for it, and Mr. Heineman never went through with it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, that was the '92 was it?
MR. MCDONALD-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, I mean, a
dormer should have come before the ZBA.
MR. MARTIN-Not if it's on the second floor only and there's no
expansion of the footprint. If it occurs on the second floor,
then it's expansion of a nonconforming structure and it went for
site plan, but if it expanded the footprint, it should have come
to the ZBA.
MR. CARVIN-Which was in '88.
MR. MARTIN-Right. I've got the '88 file here. The application
only makes reference to the expansion of the garage.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. It got wider, but did it go up, in '88?
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MARTIN-The residence?
MR. CARVIN-No, the garage.
MR. MARTIN-It shows here it further encroached on the side yard
setback, but the size of the garage is not shown here. It
doesn't have the dimensions on the addition. I don't see any
reference to dimensions on the addition. It encroached into the
setback again. It may have extended that four foot, ten inch
nonconforming setback, but I don't see any reference to the size
of the garage. It says the nonconforming expansion of five feet,
and will be no closer to the side property line.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I know the garaøe got wider, but I don't knolrJ if
it went up at the same time. I don't know if it went up at the
same time, and now we've got a dormer.
MR. MCDONALD-There is no dormer on it.
MR. CARVIN-Well, there was a proposed dormer, right?
MR. MCDONALD-Right.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So this variance is null and void because there
was never a building permit issued?
MR. MARTIN-They never pursued it. Yes, it would be void.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. In other words, for them to put a bathroom in,
they'd have to come through the system again, right?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. CARVIN-All right. So the '92 site plan is null and void. I
want to make sure, all right, does everybody understand that?
Well, the '88 variance is okay because they actually did expand
in '88, as far as we can tell, okay, and there is no bathroom in
the garage. Okay. Does everybody understand what the applicant
is proposing to do? Okay. In which case, does anyone have any
questions of the applicant?
MR. THOMAS-Is that a one or two story addition?
MR. MCDONALD-It's a one story.
MR. THOMAS-Is the roof line going to match the existing roof
line, or is it going to be lower?
MR. MCDONALD-It will match the garage side, facing the garage,
and then it will hip UP and come underneath the existing window.
MR. THOMAS-Okay.
MR. MCDONALD-It'll be a long roof, coming out to 14 feet, but hip
up to match the existing roof line, existing gable, and come
underneath the window that's there.
MR. THOMAS-Okay.
propert,y line?
So it's going to slope toward the south
MR. MCDONALD-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-Okay. Did you make any plans for water runoff on that
roof, such as gutters or some kind of?
MR. MCDONALD-No.
MR. THOMAS-Because it is 11 feet away from that property line,
- 10 -.
"
-
(Cueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals
2/21/96 )
the Rosetti property next door. I do believe it's just a little
lower than that building, and that building does sit back from
that building.
MR. MCDONALD-It seems right where we're putting this addition it
slopes to the lake, goes back to the garage, plus over to his
property line.
MR. THOMAS-Yes, because the house sits up on a crown on that
road.
MR. MCDONALD-Right.
MR. THOMAS-Is it a full bath, three-quarter bath, half bath?
MR. MCDONALD-It would be just a shower, a shower bath.
MR. THOMAS-Just a shower, and it would tie into the existing
septic system?
MR. MCDONALD-That's right.
MR. THOMAS-That's all I've got for now.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. How about Bonnie, any questions of the
applicant at this point?
MRS. LAPHAM-No. The biggest thing I'd be worried about would be
the comment from the neighbor to the south, how they felt about
it, because it would seem to me they would be very close, and
while I don>t think it would block their view from the lake> it
would certainly be one of the first things they would see, would
be this big wall of an addition, from their property. So I would
be ve'"y concer ned to see how they fel t .
MR. CARVIN-Bill?
MR. GREEN-Nothing right now.
MR. CARVIN-Dave?
MR. MENTER-It looks like, is it going to just be this side of the
bilco door, then? The bilco door's going to stay?
MR. MCDONALD-Yes.
MR. MENTER-And I noticed on the application, is it 10 or 11 feet,
from the side yard, the side yard at the finished setback? It's
11?
MR. MCDONALD-Eleven, plus some inches, and I heard someone say
that the garage setback is four foot ten, and that one is seven
foot ten, according to the stakes that are in the ground.
MR. MENTER-Where was that, in the notes?
MR. MCDONALD-It was back in 1988, and Herb had contacted his
neighbor about what he was trying to do, and he was getting some
response back from him. I don't know if he got that yet or not.
MR. MENTER-Any other locations on the property considered?
MR. MCDONALD-No.
MR. MARTIN-What is the nature
structure? Could it physically
somewhere along that rear wall?
and the floor
accommodate this
plan of the
addition off
- 11-
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MCDONALD-The lakeside wall or the other?
MR. MARTIN-The rear side wall toward Mayflower Lane?
MR. MCDONALD-Okay.
septic is up, well,
That's the main entrance to the
I think you have it on your plan.
house.
The
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I see it.
MR. MCDONALD-And it has quite a slope coming down to where his
walkway is, so, actually, no, it can't go there. This seemed to
be the best spot. It was right off the kitchen for the laundry
(lost words) bedroom if someone comes up in the summer time.
MR. KARPELES-What kind of a foundation is going to have under it?
MR. MCDONALD-It would have a four foot frost wall, and a crawl
space foundation.
MR. KARPELES-All right. You've got a great big tree there. It's
going to destroy the roots of that tree, I would presume.
MR. CARVIN-There's a tree right smack dab in the middle of lt, as
far as ~ can calculate, the birch.
MR.
¿,::Ind
viel¡.J
that?
KARPELES-It looked like if you dug any kind of foundation,
it looks to me like that could very well interfere with the
of the neighbor to the south. Has anybody investigated
MR. MCDONALD-The way his house is located, it's pointing more
toward directly west. So if you're out on his lot and you looked
that way, yes, you'll see it, but I don't think it would affect
his view any which way.
MR. KARPELES-Tell me, again, why you can't put that behind the
house? You said something about, what were the reasons?
MR. MCDONALD-Well, there's a septic system over on that side.
MR. KARPELES-Yes, well we see where that is, over on the south
side.
MR. MCDONALD-I don't think I have enough room between the house
and the garage to do anything. Plus, that's his main entranceway
coming up to his front door.
MR. KARPELES-Well, can't you put an entranceway on this new room?
MR. MCDONALD-I guess there's a lot of things I could do.
MR. KARPELES-Well, we have to grant the minimum variance, minimum
relief, and I'm not convinced this is minimum relief. It's your
job to convince us.
MR. MCDONALD-Well, I'd
different things and
here.
have to go
submit them
back and draw UP a bunch of
to Herb, and then come back
MR. MENTER-Do you know the location of that septic tank or system
that is there?
MR. MCDONALD-The best I can tell is right there, from what the
old guy whO does Pilot Knob septic services, that's what I got
from him.
MR. MENTER-Right inside the box on the paper here?
- 12 -
'-- -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MCDONALD-Yes. It was a septic system designed for, there was
an Inn there, and this house, and another small structure that
all fed into that septic that's there.
MR. CARVIN-The existing house, how many bedrooms in it right now?
MR. MCDONALD-I believe there's three.
MR. CARVIN-There's three bedrooms. Okay.
ba t h?
Is there a bath, two
MR. MCDONALD-There's probably two baths, and a powder room.
MR. MARTIN-With such a distance off the lake, is there any way to
put this off the front of the camp?
MR. CARVIN-Let me get a couple of things straight here. Okay.
So there's three bedrooms. There's at least two baths and a
powder room, and this is a two story structure, is it, inside?
MR. MCDONALD-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So there's a downstairs and an upstairs. Is
there a basement?
MR. MCDONALD-A crawl space.
MR. CARVIN-A crawl space. Is it finished or is it usable, or is
it being used?
MR. MCDONALD-The crawl space?
MR. CARVIN-Yes, other than storage, possibly?
MR. MCDONALD-Just storage.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and Mr. Heineman has how many people at home,
currently?
MR. MCDONALD-He and his wife.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, and he needs another bedroom, another bath, and
a laundry in addition, for just the two of them?
MR. MCDONALD-No. This is for when his family and her kids all
come there, or come there and stay on the holidays.
MR. CARVIN-Okay, but what would be the maximum utilization then?
I mean, are we talking full time residence here?
MR. MCDONALD-Not to my knowledge, no.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. It just seems like it's an awful big house, and
I'm not begrudging anybody anything, and he bought it in 1992,
knowing it was three bedrooms at that point, and now we're
looking to expand the situation even further for what appears to
be part time occupancy, or just very occasional occupancy.
MR. MCDONALD-That's a
owned the house, and
so he acquired it.
previous marriages,
pretty good assessment, and Mrs. Ducey
Mr. Heineman (lost words) a few years ago,
Okay. They both have children from their
and they have grandchildren.
MR. CARVIN-Well, I appreciate the expanding family, but I'm not
quite sure that that is covered under the zoning rules as far as
minimum variance is concerned. Okay. I'm sorry, Jim, did you
have anything else?
-- 13 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MARTIN-I was just wondering, I don't know. After that last
exchange, it sort of weakens my question. I notice there is
quite a dimension off the front there, a dimension that we're
usually not used to seeing. Sometimes we see as little as ten or
fifteen feet from the lake. There is quite a distance there. Is
there any possibility of an expansion off the front, because our
shoreline setback is 75 feet. So you've got quite a distance
there to work with that wouldn't need a variance.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. I think what might be appropriate here is that
if there is somethi ng that can be conformi ng, because I'm goi IVJ
to have a hard time granting a variance on this, based on a
minimum relief. I mean, if he can build something in compliance,
he's going to be better served. I mean, that's my own feeling.
I don't know about everybody else.
MR. KARPELES-You know how l feel.
MR. CARVIN-I do, Bob. Does anybody else have any questions of
the applicant? All right. Then I'll open up the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARVIN-Any correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-Yes. One note, "Please record me in favor of granting
relief to Heineman setback request. Merritt E. Scoville" Dated
2/14/96. That's it.
MR. CARVIN-And Mr. Scoville is?
MR. THOMAS-Well, according to
properties, it looks like three
applicant.
the ta;~ map,
properties to the
he 1~3 thr ee
north of the
MR. CARVIN-To the north, okay.
MR. THOMAS-I would guess.
going by.
I don't have a tax map.
I'm just
MR. ~(ARPELES·-Yes. I saw a sign there, "Scovi lIe" .
MRS. LAPHAM-The way the road winds.
MR. CARVIN-All right. No other correspondence?
MR. THOMAS-That's it.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Any additional public comment? Okay. Hearing
none, seeing none, I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-I don't know how the rest of the Board feels. I know
how 1 feel on this. I think it's going to be, the applicant is
going to be better served to maybe have you sit down and dTaw up,
see if you can draw up something that might be in compliance,
would be my feeling, and there's two ways we can tackle this. We
can table this up to a maximum of 60 days, to allow you to re-
visit this. Okay. In other words, if you can come up with a
schematic or a better alternative that doesn't require a
variance, then the thing just goes away. If, on the other hand,
you feel you want to pursue this, or can come up with something
that shows us maybe a minimum variance relief, I think you can be
better served on that. Otherwise, I think, and again, I'm only
speaking for myself, you know, we can put this to a vote and see
how it goes, in which case you'll' have a determination. SO'I'm
goi ng to thro"'J it over into your court, as to how you "'Jant to
- 14 -
--.. -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
handle this.
MR. MCDONALD-How would I do something with building something on
this side of the house, as far as a minimum variance goes? What
do you mean by that?
MR. CARVIN-Well, again, if it's smaller, or if you adjust it and
need less relief, then you can come back within the 60 days, if
we tabled this. It will still be an active application.
MR. MCDONALD-Okay.
MR. CARVIN-Again, as I said, I don't know what schematics you
might be able to come up with, but I think that if there is
something that could be built more in compliance, you're going to
be better off, because as I said, I have a hard time granting, I
think, a large amount of relief for something that is, you know,
he's already got three bedrooms. He's looking for a fourth, and,
you know, I realize expanding families, but it seems we're just
building an awful lot of house on a very small lot again, which
is something I know ~ am particularly sensitive to up on the
lake, and I think that this Board has, become more and more
sensitive to those types of issues. So, having said that, I'm
going to let you decide, where would you like us to take this?
MR. MCDONALD-We best leave it open, until I talk to Mr. Heineman.
I'll come up with some alternatives, and then the ball's back in
his court, as to what he wants me to do with this.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Does anybody on the Board have a problem with
that, or does anyone feel strongly that we should go forward on
this, allow the applicant to try to seek?
MR. THOMAS-No. I would like to make one comment though. That if
this was!IJ.Z::. house, and I had an opportunity to pu·t a bedroom
toward the lake, and overlook the lake, I would do it.
MR. MENTER-Yes. I'd make it the master bedroom.
MR. THOMAS-Yes.
MR. MCDONALD-Yes, that could be a selling point.
MR. THOMAS-Yes, a bedroom overlooking the lake.
MR. MARTIN-That's very unusual that we meet the shoreline
setbac k .
MR. THOMAS-It sure is.
MR. MARTIN-Let alone the existing house, and then the addition.
That's very unusual.
MR. THOMAS-Yes. It'll
move it to the front
niche.
have side line and lake setback, if you
of the house there, in that one little
MR. MARTIN-And there is going to be consideration
hopefully by the end of March, to increasing the setback
feet, or I should say decreasing it to 50 feet.
given,
to 50
MR. THOMAS-So, yes, he's got the golden opportunity right here, a
bedroom right out the front.
MR. CARVIN-All right.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 1-1996 HERBERT HEINEMAN. JR.,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
-- 15 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
Chris Thomas:
Tabled to allow the applicant an opportunity to design or develop
a plan more in compliance with the Ordinance.
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote : .~
AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles,
Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Now our tabling schedule is 60.
MR. MARTIN-And that's for new information to be received, or
another request made to the Board to further extend that.
MR. MCDONALD-Okay,
MR. MARTIN-Otherwise it just voids, and the application ceases.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
tonight?
Thank you.
Okay. Is Paul going to be here
MR. MARTIN-He's scheduled to be. We haven't heard from him.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 2-1996 TYPE II LC-42A RICHARD & JILL LONG
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE WEST SIDE OF ROUTE 9L, APPROX. 4 MILES
NORTH OF THE ROUTE 149, ROUTE 9L INTERSECTION, AND LOCATED SOUTH
OF WILLIAMSON'S STORE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT AN
ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME WHICH REQUIRES RELIEF FROM THE
SIDE SETBACK AND PERMEABI·LITY REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 179-13, AND
THE ENLARGEMENT OF A NONCONFORMING USE REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION
179-79A2. ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY WARREN COUNTY PLANNING
2/14/96 TAX MAP NO. 21-1-4 LOT SIZE: 19,000 SQ. FT. SECTION
179-13, 179-79A2
RICHARD & JILL LONG, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 2-1996, Richard & Jill Long,
Meeting Date: February 21, 1996 "PROPOSED PROJECT AND
CONFORMANCE WITH THE ORDINANCE: The applicants are proposing to
build a 705 square foot addition to their home. This addition
will not meet the required side setbacks and permeability
standards required by Section 179-13, and is an expansion that is
over 50% of the area of the original structure (Section 179-
79A2). The applicant proposes that the minimum side setback for
the new addition be 20 feet. The resulting permeability will be
approximately 91% instead of the required 95%. The applicants
have also indicated that in the future they may wish to seek
approval for a garage addition for this property. CRITERIA FOR
CONSIDERING AN AREA VARIANCE, ACCORDING TO CHAPTER 267, TOWN LAW.
i. BENEFIT TO THE APPLICANT: The applicant states that this
addition will provide additional living space for their family,
2. FEASIBLE ALTERNATIVES: There does not seem to be any
alternatives which could provide a lesser amount of relief from
the Ordinance. 3. IS THIS RELIEF SUBSTANTIAL RELATIVE TO THE
ORDINANCE?: The relief is 80% of the requirement. 4. EFFECTS
ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY?: It appears that an addition
to this home in the proposed location would not have an impact on
the neighborhood at this time. However, there may be some
further comments at the public hearing. 5. IS THIS DIFFICULTY
SELF-CREATED?: No. This lot contains approximately .48 acres.
... 16 ..
--- -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
This property is a legal nonconforming lot located in a LC-42A
zone which requires 42 acres of minimum lot size. Any type of
building expansion on this lot would not be able to accommodate
the required setbacks for the zoning that is in place. PARCEL
HISTORY: The square footage of the original building was 454
square feet. The property was purchased by the current owners in
November 1994. SEQR: Type II, no further action required."
MR. THOMAS--"At a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board,
held on the 14th day of February 1996, the above application for
an Area Variance to construct an addition to existing home. was
reviewed and the following action was taken. Recommendation to:
t-~o County Impact. II Signed by C. Powel South, ChaiTperson.
MR. CARVIN-I had heard that this was turned down by the County
because there was insufficient information?
MR. THOMAS-No. There's the last meeting, the 14th.
MR. LONG-Excuse me. They had started it when we first got there.
We had the infoTmation and gave it to them, put it in front of
them, and then they approved it.
MR. CARVIN-All right. So this is, because I had heard that they
turned it down because of the driveway or something.
MR. LONG-Right, but we had the information when we got there.
MR. CARVIN-Right, so No County
understand the application, what
do? Are there any questions?
Impact. Okay. Everyone
the applicant is proposing to
MR. KARPELES-Well,it appears to me like that lot is getting
pretty much overloaded, if the permeability is below what it
should be. I mean, you only bought that in 1994. Were you aware
of the fact that you couldn't expand it at that time?
MRS,. LONG-No. They told us that we could. When we bought it, we
asked about building on, before we bought it, and they said that
there would be no problem adding on.
MR. LONG-And we're tearing down part.
MRS. LONG-Right. We're using some of where the
structure is. We're adding, we're tearing that down.
already there, we just want to, we're squaring it off.
existing
So what's
MR. MENTER-Well, to me, the permeability's not a big issue.
You're talking 91% versus 95%. It's a few small percentage
points in a very small percentage of nonpermeable space on the
lot. Did you look at any other locations for expansion, any
other ways to expand?
MRS. LONG-We have a septic in the back, and if we went over onto
the north side of the property, because the property line runs at
a diagonal. OUT house sits square with the road, but the
property goes kind of like at an angle. So if we went off of the
north side, we'd cut right into the neighbor's, I mean, we're
right on the line, where we are now.
MR. LONG-And the setbacks are 100 feet in the 42 acre, anyway.
MR. MENTER-How far out is that well in front?
MR. LONG-It won't be anywhere near the well.
MRS. LONG-It's like 11 feet now, well, it's more than 11, from
where it is nO"'J.
- 17 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. LONG-The well is in front of what's already existing, and
we're not tearing down.
MR. MENTER-Well, I was thinking of the
terms of maybe building. I mean, the
about 30 feet.
front of the building in
well looks to me to be
MRS. LONG-No. If we came out off of the front room, where it
says 17 feet across, lf we came out onto that, we would be on top
of the well there, into living, you know.
MR. MENTER-So you don't know how far out it is, that well?
MR. LONG-It's 15 feet, I would guess.
MR. HILTON-If I may, for just a moment. I'd like to point out to
the Board that, originally, this home was built with 454 square
feet of living space, and in our Code, the minimum allowable
floor area for a dwelling is 800 square feet. So they started
pretty much in a deficit of floor area of over 350 square feet,
or approximately 350 square feet. They're in a large, you know,
42 acre zoning, nonconforming lot. Staff seems to think, or at
least in m..z.: opinion, if we're starting, if they lrJere starting
below the allowable figure floor area in the first place, you
know, they're not, I guess they're not looking to crowd the site
as much. I mean, they started with less than they could have
had, at the time of original building, just for your information.
MR. GREEN-There's a lot to the south, a wooded lot. You said the
gentleman farther south owns that?
I'1RS. LONG-Right.
wheì" e he Ii ves .
He owns that lot and the lot next to it
There's an unbuildable lot between there.
is
MR. GREEN-That was my question for Jim. There's a wooded lot in
there. Is that unbuildable?
MR. MARTIN-The one indicated as Hooker?
MRS. LONG-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Unbuildable for what reasons? Is it wet?
MR. LONG-The setbacks. I guess he bought it and then there was a
trailer on there, it's a buffer zone.
MR. MARTIN-That's LC-42 also?
MRS. LONG--Yes.
MR. MARTIN-What's the dimensions on that lot?
MRS. LONG-I don't know.
MR. GREEN-It couldn't be more than a couple of hundred feet
across, I would say. You're in the same situation.
MRS. LONG-Yes.
MR. CARVIN-Probably a little bit smaller than your lot.
MRS. LONG-But someone told us that he originally bought it with a
trailer on that.
MR. MARTIN-It could have been. You'd have to look at the
history, but with side yards of 100 feet on each side yard,
you're looking at a minimum of 200 feet just for that, to
accommodate that alone. So those are pretty stringent.
- 18 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. GREEN-You're pretty certain there probably would never be
anything built on there.
MR. CARVIN-Without a variance.
MR. MARTIN-Not without a variance.
MR. GREEN-Without a variance of some kind, yes.
MR. MARTIN-It also depends on when the lot comes into play. I
mean, if these lots were the result of a Planning Board approved
subdivision, which it's unlikely that they are, then it would
held to the standard of the time that the subdivision was
approved, but I doubt that's the case. These probably pre-date
any sort of zoning.
MR. CARVIN-I was going to say, do you have any idea when this lot
was created?
MR. MARTIN-No. George looked that up. There's no indication of
any subdivision anyhow.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. So you went back 10 years, 15 years, anyway?
MR. HILTON-Yes, as far as our Assessor's records go.
MR. CARVIN--O kay .
MR. GREEN-I don't have any real big concern about it, actually.
MRS. LAPHAM-I was just wondering, what are you going
this room? I read all through my notes and I couldn't
to put in
see?
MR. LONG-Well, when we do this, we're going to remodel the inside
of what we already have there.
MRS. LONG-I'm knocking out a bedroom, and I'm going to make some
place where we can eat, because right now we eat in our living
room because we don't have room for a diningroom table in our
kitchen. It's very small. So we're eliminating a bedroom, and
we're going to have a bedroom, actually, we're eliminating two
bedrooms, because we're tearing down one of the bedrooms that's
there now. We're going to build. So it's going to be two
bedrooms and then we're going to have a bath.
MRS. LAPHAM-So in this addition there's going to be two bedrooms
and a bath?
MRS. LONG,-Yer:3.
MRS. LAPHAM-And then you'll gut the existing structure, and put a
living room, dining room, kitchen.
MRS. LONG-Yes, I'm going to make a dining room in there, some
place where I can sit with my family.
MRS. LAPHAM-How many baths will that put 1n the house?
MR. LONG-There's already two.
MRS. LONG-There's already two in there.
MR. LONG-Well, one and a half. 50 it will still be one and a
hal f.
MRS. LAPHAM-Will it be one and a half or two and a half when
you're finished, with the new?
.- 19 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MRS. LONG-One and a half, because we're eliminating one of the
bathrooms. There's a bedroom and a bathroom that we're
eliminating. So we're just going to rebuild them, when we build
on, in that new structure. It's going to be a new bathroom to
replace what's already there.
MRS. LAPHAM-Okay.
have two bedrooms,
So, altogether, when we're all finished, we'll
and a bath and a half?
MRS. LONG-Right.
MRS. LAPHAM-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-Is this all in one story?
r1R. l.ONG'-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Do you know what the overall square footage of the
structure will be, if you do get the addition as shown? Did you
calculate that out?
MRS. LONG-It should be right on the application.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, it's shown here.
2,030.
Yes.
Total house would be
MRS. LONG-Right.
1'1F~. MARTIN-'O kay .
MR. CARVIN-Why do I have 1325 as the building area?
that include?
What does
MR. MENTER-That's existing.
MR. CARVIN-Is that existing building? Yet, we're saying the
square footage of the original building is 454 square feet.
MR. MARTIN-Right. The current building area is 1325. They're
proposing to go to 2030, but the provision of the Code requires
that we go off the original size of the original structure.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I'm slow to~ight. So, there's been another
addition on to this, prior, to bring it up to the 1300?
MH. MARTIN"·'Ú?is.
MR. CARVIN-And when was that, any idea?
MH. HILTON-I don't have the Assessor's records available to me
right now, but in reviewing them, there were additions that have
brought it up to 1325, but I don't know when they occurred.
MR. MENTER-Certainly prior to the Long's purchase.
MR. CARVIN-Yes. Well, they bought it just recently.
MR. MARTIN-I would imagine they weren't even anywhere in recent
time.
MRS. LONG-When we
us said that when
and a diningroom.
bought the property, the one who had it before
they moved in they had added on a living room
MR. MENTER-The expansion percentage still goes to the original
square footage.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, I guess it would, wouldn't it?
.. 20 -'
'-. -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MARTIN-That's the way it reads.
MR. CARVIN-Yes, it's to eliminate what's happening here.
MR. MARTIN-Well, I think George's point is well taken, though. I
mean, an original structure of 454 square feet is, I mean, that's
not even a living standard.
MR. CARVIN-Even if we look at it from the 1300 to a 2000, is it a
50?
MR. MENTER-It's close.
MR. GREEN-Not if you back out what they're building over,
basically.
MR. MARTIN-See they're only permitted, the way the Code reads,
they'd only be permitted a 200 square foot expansion, because it
would be 50% of the original 454.
MR. CARVIN-But we have no idea how many time this thing has been
expanded. It could be one. It could be two. It could be three.
MR. MARTIN-I don't know. I think that's a relatively recent
provision of the Code, that 50%.
MR. CARVIN-I still don't have a problem with it.
MR. MENTER-That's the only part that concerned me was the 50%
expansion, the relative size of the expansion. The setbacks, I
think, are sort of mitigated by the circumstances, as well as the
permeability.
MR. THOMAS-I just want to say that I agree with Dave about the
permeability, that the 95% required, that as Mr. Turner stated
once, that in our SFR 1 Acre, which is our most restrictive, that
the permeability is 65%, and that the setbacks in our most
restrictive zone is 20 foot on the side, and that's what the
applicant is proposing. If this lot was sitting in an SFR-l
zone, they wouldn't be here. So I have no problem whatsoever
with this, as drawn.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
hearing.
Any other questions? I'll open up the public
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARVIN-Any additional questions from the Board? I'd ask for
a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 2-1996 RICHARD & JILL LONG,
Introduced by William Green who moved for its adoption, seconded
by David Menter:
Applicant proposes to construct an addition to a single family
home which requires relief from the side setback and permeability
requirements of Section 179-13, and the enlargement of a
Nonconforming Use requirements of Section 179-79A2. The
applicant is proposing to build a 705 foot square addition to
their home. This addition will not meet the required side
setbacks and permeability standards required by Section 179-13,
and since this expansion is over 50 percent of the area of the
original structure, a variance is also needed for Section 179-
79A2. Applicant proposes that the minimum side setback for the
- 21 --
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
new addition be 20 feet. The addition will result in a 91
percent permeability instead of the 95 percent required by the
Code. Due to the nature of the size of the lot, approximately
.48 acres in a 42 acre zone, most of the relief needed is due to
the lot size. There does not seem to be any feasible
alternatives that could provide a lesser amount of relief from
the Ordinances. It also appears that there would be no
detrimental impacts on the community or neighborhood.
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: Mr. Karpeles
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I've got an item here on the Randolph's, the
bed and breakfast. I've got that that's coming up for review in
April of, we did this in April of '93. So it's March or April.
We gave a three year extension on that. I think we should
contact them. Who was on the Board when the Randolph's, that's
the bed and breakfast? I know Bob, you were, and I think, Chris,
'lOU IrJer e .
MR. THOMAS-April of '93?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, Chris was h~re~
MR. CARVIN-Dave, you might' have been. That was the bed and
breakfast. Actually, it goes back to '92, I think, actually.
MR. MARTIN-No, it was '93.
MR. CARVIN-That's when we gave it a three year extension, because
it was coming off a one year extension, at that point. What it
is, it's a bed and breakfast in a residential area, on Ridge
Road, and I think it came before the Board in 1992 originally,
and the Board gave a variance for one year, asking them to come
back to make sure that there was no major impact, that the
neighbors, there was some opposition when it first came up, and
so they came back in 1993. Again, I don't think there was any
real public opposition at that point, and it did not seem to be
an overly intensive situation. So, in 1993, the Board granted a
three year extension, which is going to be coming up in the next
month or so, and I think that what I'd like to try to do is if we
can get them back in, if there is no public opposition, to make
that a permanent situation.
MR. MARTIN-I know it, because they were rather concerned the last
time, after their last approval. They came forward for a request
to change the Codes that treated bed and breakfast, and they were
very concerned about loosing their variance, and all that for the
three year expiration, and that never came about, obviously.
MR. CARVIN-Well, again, I think if staff can follow that up and
maybe get them onto the agenda for March or April, and we'll see
if maybe we can review that situation. It's not fair to go on
another three or four months and the variance goes down the
tubes. Okay. Item Number Two, this real estate review, Jim.
You say that the Town, this would be Town approved? I don't know
if anybody can make that, but it looks interesting.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's something we would pay for, if you submit
a request to go.
MR. CARVIN-Is there a cut off on this, Jim, do you know?
w. 22 -
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MARTIN-I can't recall. There usually is.
MR. THOMAS-Isn't that down in Westchester County somewhere?
MR. MARTIN-No. It's right down in Saratoga. It's on a Saturday
or Sunday, and if you do use your own car to go, mileage and all
that, is.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I don't know if Paul is going to give us a talk
or not, but it's not looking real good, if he is.
MR. MARTIN-Mr. Kladis, now, is going to come in to see what he
can do to build a conforming house.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
right?
We have another one here, the Kristensen,
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I got a call from Mike O'Connor,
get a chance to return it. So, I don't know if he
about that or not.
but I didn't
was calling
MR. CARVIN-Well, we got a letter.
I guess, then, is Area Variance
Ellen Kristensen.
Okay. Next item of business,
No. 75-1995 Alfred and Mary
DISCUSSION ITEM:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 75-1995 ALFRED & MARY ELLEN KRISTENSEN
APPLICANT REQUESTS FOUR MONTH EXTENSION OF TABLING. SEE LETTER
DATED JANUARY 26, 1996 IN FILE. DISCUSSION OF COURT CASE (ANGELA
M. KLADIS) ZBA AND PAUL DUSEK, TOWN ATTORNEY
MR. MARTIN-I did talk to Curt Dybas today. They are going to be
submitting, for sure, for March. He'll have it in by February
28th, for a substantially reduced request. He's talking now
literally a 10 by 10 addition off of the one side of the house
there where, I think it would be the west side of the house,
southwest, Kristensen on Glen Lake. So it will be revised
down¡"Jard.
MR. CARVIN-All right.
have the let.ter?
Why don't you read the letter. Do you
MR. THOMAS-Yes, I do.
MR. CARVIN-Just read that in.
MR. THOMAS-A letter dated January 26, 1996,
Planning Board. Attention: Jim Martin
Kristensen, Glen Lake "Dear Jim: We would
four month adjournment in order to finalize
If you have any questions, please call.
Michael J. O'Connor, Esq."
to the Queensbury
RE: Alfred E.
like to request a
our land use plans.
Very truly yours,
MR. CARVIt+--O kay .
from January 30?
I'm assuming they're asking for four months
MR. MARTIN-Right, and I think they have finalized
call I had today would update that. letter, and
coming in for a March meeting.
those.
they will
The
be
MR. THOMAS-Why did they ask for four months when they only need a
month?
MR. MARTIN-I don't know.
MR. THOMAS-Haven't we delayed this one twice?
-- 23 --
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. CARVIN-Well, I don't think we ever even heard it, to be
honest with you. I think it was tabled before it even came out
of the gate.
MR. MARTIN-Well, there was another issue that came up, and
there's rather a storied history here, with, see, Dr. Kristensen
bought several lots adjoining his original parcel, and he did
everything right, and he wrote me a letter asking if that was
okay to do that, would there be any restrictions on that, and
would the lots remain under separate ownership. I had thought,
there is an adjoining clause in the Ordinance that applies to
lots under the same ownership in the APA and in a Critical
Environmental Area. At the time he asked me, I wrote back and
responded, no, there's not, because I thought that applied only
in the Adirondack Park Agency area, but it is also true for
Critical Environmental Area also, which is the first 100 feet
back from Glen Lake. So now all these lots are joined. So
there's an outstanding issue to be worked out about that, but
that will be coming also over the next month or two.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Again, I don't have a pr¿bl~~ giving them four
months.
MR. MARTIN-We'll see it for sure in March, in terms of the side
yard relief.
MR. CARVIN-Were we also going to see the Mooring Post in March,
or is there any indication there?
MR. MARTIN-I think so. I talked to Tom Nace today. He finally
cleared his decks to qet at that, and he anticipates it coming in
in March.
MR. CARVIN-All right. Well, we're going to have to work some of
these out, because I'm not sure I want to have two major gun
battles in March.
MR. MARTIN-Well, I'll advise you as soon as it comes in, or I'll
call you, Fred, and see how you want to schedule things out.
MR. CARVIN-All right.
MOTION TO GRANT A FOUR MONTH TABLING FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 75-
1995 ALFRED & MARY E~LEN KRISTENSE~,' Introdu6ed by ÞredCarvin
who moved for its adoption, seconded by David Menter:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vot~e :
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas,
Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Carvin
NO E S : I'~ Ot'.,fE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MR. THOMAS-Is this going to set a dangerous precedent for others,
coming in wanting a tabling, you know, they don't like what they
hear?
MR. CARVIN-Not really. I think we've got justification here. I
don't have a problem. I'd like to give them the time to get
their ducks in a row on this.
MR.
they
THOMAS-Shouldn't they have had
came?
their ducks in
a row before
MR. CARVIN-Well, I don't have a problem with it.
-' 24 -
''-. ~
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
MR. MARTIN-Whenever anybody asks me, I do say they are reviewed
on a case by case basis, and it is the decision of the Board.
MR. MENTER-I don't think there's been a problem with it, or a
tendency to have a big problem with tabling it.
MR. CARVIN-I think what we've had a problem in the past is
tabling it and not without any timeframe, and then just loosing
them. So I think the 60 days is more for our benefit, to make
sure that these things don't get lost in the shuffle.
MR. MARTIN-We don't have that many outstanding issues like this.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. Minutes?
I could have sworn we'd
Septembeì- .
You're correct on these, September?
done some of these minutes since
MR. MARTIN-I rely on the clerical staff at the office to make
sure those are correct.
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
September 28, 1996: NONE
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 28TH AS WRITTEN,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles,
Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
October 18, 1996:
scr atch that, line
again, line seven,
same line "I'd have
Page 9, Mr. Menter, center of page, "I think,
five, since it began, scratch "I think",
scratch "just you know", and the end of the
to", scratch that
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER THE 18TH, AS CORRECTED,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas,
Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
October 25, 1996: NONE
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 25. 1995, Introduced by
Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham,
Mr. Green, Mr. Carvin
- 25 -
(Oueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
November 8, 1996: NONE
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 8. 1995, Introduced by
Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green,
Mr. Menter, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
November 29, 1996: NONE
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF NOVEMBER THE 29TH, Introduced by
Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
\jote:
AYES: Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter,
Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
December 20, 1995:
MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES OF DECEMBER THE 20TH, Introduced by
Fred Car\jin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
Duly
\jöte, :
adopted this 21st day, of February, 1996,
, r
b)/ the follovJi ng
AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles,
Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
NOES: !'.IONE
ABSENT: Mr. Förd
MR. CARVIN-One final, I guess, is the, I don't know how to phrase
this, nomination, election, suggestion, recommendation of
Chairman, Vice Chairman and Secretary for 1996.
MR. THOMAS-We can't do the Chairman. That's appointed by the
TOvJí1 Board.
MR. CARVIN-Well, we can make a recommendation to the Town Board.
MOTION TO RECOMMEND TO THE TOWN BOARD THAT FRED A. CARVIN REMAIN
AS CHAIRMAN OF THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR THE TOWN OF
QUEENSBURY, Introduced by Chris Thomas who moved for its
adoption, seconded by David Menter:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
\lot,e:
AYES: Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green, Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles,
Mr. Thomas, Mr. Carvin
-- 26 -
""'-..\ ..,.;'
(Oueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MR. CARVIN-I appreciate that. I will only caveat that my term is
up in September of 1996.
MR. THOMAS-Well, we think the Town Board will push that ahead
when they appoint you new Chairman.
MR. CARVIN-I'm serious. If anybody else cares to take over the
mantle of leadership and get the big bucks, as it were, I would
not be opposed.
MR. THOMAS-Well, we can always appoint Tom. He's not here.
MR. CARVIN-Okay. I guess Vice Chairman. Any thoughts as far as
Vice Chairman?
MR. KARPELES-I think we're fine.
MR. THOI'1AS--Yes. I think we're fine. Stic,k wi.th Tom.
MR. CARVIN-Okay.
whatever we are, as
Then we'll keep our Board of
is. All in favor say, aye.
Directors, or
MR. THOMAS-Aye.
MRS. LAPHAM-Aye.
MR. KARPELES-Aye.
t<1R. MEI'HER-Aye.
MR. GREEN-Aye.
MR. CARVIN-Aye. Well, if there's no further business before the
Board, and I guess Mr. Dusek is not going to, I can move us into
Executive Session and go through what that's all about.
MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS THE KLADIS TRIAL,
Introduced by Fred Carvin who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Chris Thomas:
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Menter, Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham,
Mr. Green, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
MOTION TO COME OUT
Carvin who moved for
OF EXECUTIVE SESSION, Introduced by
its adoption, seconded by Chris Thomas:
Fred
Duly adopted this 21st day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Karpeles, Mr. Thomas, Mrs. Lapham, Mr. Green,
Mr. Menter, Mr. Carvin
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ford
On motion meeting was adjourned.
~~ 27 "m'
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",
'"
./'
"
(Cueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals 2/21/96)
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Fred A. Carvin, Chairman
.w 213 .-