2005-02-07 MTG7
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 1
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING Mtg #7
TH
FEBRUARY 7, 2005 Res. #85-108
7:01 P.M. BOH Res. #5-6
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN COUNSEL
BOB HAFNER
TOWN OFFICIALS
Marilyn Ryba, Executive Director of Community Development
Jennifer Switzer, Budget Officer
Ralph VanDusen, Water/Wastewater Superintendent
Bruce Ostrander, Deputy Water Superintendent
Dave Hatin, Director of Building & Codes
Steve Lovering, Assistant Director of Parks & Recreation
Mike Barody, Warren County Board Of Supervisor-At-Large
Jack LaBombard, Recreation Commission Member
PRESS: Glens Falls Post Star
SUPERVISOR STEC called meeting to order…
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR QUEENSBURY BOARD OF HEALTH
RESOLUTION NO.: 85, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns from
Regular Session and enters as the Queensbury Board of Health.
th
Duly adopted this 7, day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
BOARD OF HEALTH
PUBLIC HEARING – Sewage Disposal Variance Application of Ronald and Jo Ann Taylor
Notice Shown
7:03 P.M.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 2
ATTORNEY JON LAPPER-Good evening. For the record, Jon Lapper, Stefanie Bitter and Project
Engineer Ed LaPoint. We’ve been before the Board on this application previously, had some
discussions and I guess the bottom line is that we’re here to request permission to replace an aging
seepage pit with an engineered leachfield which is in the best interest of the lake. We’ve redesigned
the system at the request of Dave Hatin and made some changes that moved the system as far back
from the lake as possible which we think is in the best interest of the community and that’s the
general picture and Ed is here to answer any technical questions, he designed the system. Ask
away.
SUPERVISOR STEC-With that I would offer the Board an opportunity to start asking questions.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-What’s the underlying system there on the ground? What’s under there
for soil?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-The soil?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yea.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Since we were here last time, we were asked to go back with one of the
three soil scientists or engineers that the Town has on the list of approved soil scientists so we went
back with Charlie Maine who pretty much taught everyone else in the area had to do soil tests and
the submission that we made has all the detailed information on the perk rate and the mottling.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-No ledge there?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-No.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Not where you’re going to put the tank?
MR. ED LAPOINT, Project Engineer-It’s sandy loam, typically around the lake and the underlying
area.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-How deep is the loam?
MR. LAPOINT-I saw a test pit down to about three and a half feet.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Three and a half feet.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Any other questions Ted, right now?
MR. LAPOINT-Charlie Maine says were down forty-six to fifty-one inches of sand clay loam,
standing, the hole that I saw was down at the waterline of thirty-eight inches.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-The clay and sand is mixed together then, right?
MR. LAPOINT-Right, sand clay loam is the way that Charlie characterizes it.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-And that was after forty-six inches.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Forty-six inches was loamy sand.
SUPERVISOR STEC-John?
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Just wondering, the loam isn’t the best substance to use for
infiltration beds, is it?
MR. LAPOINT-Well he’s got a percolation rate here of ten minutes, thirty-five seconds per inch
which is suitable to put a raised system on top.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 3
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Suitable but not supersonic. You don’t want it to be supersonic, I
understand you don’t want it to be too fast but.
MR. LAPOINT-No, you don’t want it to be supersonic, you want it to actually filter and remove the
nutrients from the effluent.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And we did see mottling, if, I’m going from memory here, twenty-six
inches.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Twenty-three.
MR. LAPOINT-Twenty-three.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Twenty-three and so since the infiltration bed has to be three feet
above that, you’re adding?
MR. LAPOINT-Yea, it will be a raised system, that’s correct.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And what type of soil are you adding?
MR. LAPOINT-We’ll get it to, let me see my drawings. That will be a sandy gravel. Ron, do you
know on here where we specified the gravel? Do you mind coming up and showing me? Eight to
ten minutes per inch percolation rate of fill material is what we’re going to be use, specified on the
drawings.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay, will that be sandy?
MR. LAPOINT-Yea, sandy gravel mix.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Sandy gravel mix, okay.
MR. LAPOINT-About the same percolation rate as the underlying material.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay, I was just trying to refresh my memory on some items. Now,
how many linear feet of the Eljen bed are we proposing?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-For the record again, who are you?
MR. LAPOINT-My name is Ed LaPoint.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And what is your function here?
MR. LAPOINT-I sealed the design for the Taylors.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-You designed this system?
MR. LAPOINT-That’s correct.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, thank you.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well, if they’re twelve feet in length and five beds.
MR. LAPOINT-It’s sixty feet.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-That’s sixty feet.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Now, and it’s a two bedroom?
MR. LAPOINT-Two bedroom with a whirlpool bath in the bathroom so we designed it for a three
bedroom system.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 4
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Does the whirlpool necessitate the amount of, the size of the system?
MR. LAPOINT-The guidance, the Department of Health Guidance suggests that with a whirlpool
tub in the bathroom you add a bedroom to the design size, it’s a conservative assumption.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Okay. By the way, Ed how are you, I haven’t seen you in a long time.
Nice to see you.
MR. LAPOINT-Fine, thanks, Tim how are you? It’s been fifteen years.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Has it been that long?
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-So using your, the New York State Eljen In-Drain Sizing Chart, that
you do have on the plans, okay, we’ve got a two bedroom.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And we’ve got a perk rate that’s a little bit higher then ten so let’s go
eleven to fifteen.
MR. LAPOINT-Right, you would need forty-six feet.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-You need forty-six.
MR. LAPOINT-And we’re providing sixty.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay and if it were a three bedroom, wouldn’t you need.
MR. LAPOINT-You would need fifty-four and we’re still providing sixty.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well, if you jump over to the three bedroom, it starts at, what is that
fifty-nine, fifty-eight? It’s tough to read.
MR. LAPOINT-Fifty-nine.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Fifty-nine and then seventy and then eighty.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-That’s in the three bedroom.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Alright, so you’re supplying sixty so that would be a minimum three
hundred and thirty gallon per day flow.
MR. LAPOINT-Right, that’d be a hundred and ten gallons per day per bedroom.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay. Alright, that’s it for me for now.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-If there was no current residence on this property, could you put a one
bedroom system on here without a variance?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-You’d have to be a hundred feet back from the lake.
MR. LAPOINT-You’d have to be a hundred, right, you don’t meet the setbacks.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So you couldn’t, is that your answer?
MR. LAPOINT-You could not.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, now you currently have a two bedroom on there?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 5
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, and you’re asking for a three bedroom?
MR. LAPOINT-No.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-No.
MR. LAPOINT-Two bedrooms.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, you’re asking for a system that would legally accommodate a three
bedroom house, is that correct?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Correct and there’s four bedrooms now.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, let me understand. Now, how familiar are you with the Eljen systems?
MR. LAPOINT-That’s just another way of distributing the water and the absorption trench.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Are you familiar with the fact that they recommend low flow rates in those
and that they don’t recommend that you add large surges of water to them?
MR. LAPOINT-They’re no different then a perforated pipe.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Have you read the literature on them?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes, I have.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Then you’re not familiar with that portion of it.
MR. LAPOINT-I don’t recall that specifically, no.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay. I’m just going to come out ahead of time and tell you that I think
it’s admirable that you want to improve a system that’s antiquated and perhaps not functioning well,
although we have no proof that it isn’t functioning but I would not allow you to put a system on
there that would allow for a third bedroom. The property that we’re talking about is a little bit
bigger then a tennis court and it would be just totally irresponsible and we would essentially cut the
legs out from under the Zoning Board and take away all their tools to deny this application relative
to septic variance.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Let me respond.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, no, I’m not finished yet.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-We’re not disagreeing.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I’m not finished.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Please.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, thank you. So, please understand that I want you to have the best
system you can but it would be totally inappropriate for me to allow you to go bigger then what you
have. We have to look, what, there isn’t one application that comes before this Board that doesn’t
have at least two property owners adjacent to it and a community property known as Lake George
on the other line and you know, we derive a lot of tourist business, it’s an asset to this community.
There are many people at the County level and perhaps even on this Board that would have liked to
seen a central sewer system go in. It’s not going to happen. So, it’s incumbent upon this Board to
take over the responsibility of ensuring the safety of that lake and adjacent homeowners. We take it
very seriously. So, when you come
MR. LAPOINT-If the use doesn’t change
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 6
COUNCILMAN BOOR-When you come before this Board and ask for more then what is
appropriate, you give us no choice but to say no. I thought we made it clear the last time you were
here that we would allow you to upgrade but we weren’t going to allow a third bedroom and the fact
that you’re doing it by calling it a whirlpool, we, as soon as we get, if we were to grant this thing,
you could walk out that door and say, geez, you know what, my husband, he broke his leg and he
can no longer lift it to get into a tub, so we’ve decided not to use the whirlpool anymore and instead
we’re just going to add a convalescent bedroom for him and we have the system to accommodate it.
And we’ve got no power to say otherwise.
MR. LAPOINT-It doesn’t change the use, the amount of sewage doesn’t change.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-It, well, the point
ATTORNEY LAPPER-It’s not worth arguing.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-The point is that we don’t
ATTORNEY LAPPER-We’ll do a two bedroom system, Roger. The issue, in terms of the science
of it, if there was a system designed for six bedrooms, it would just mean more redundancy and
better quality effluent. But if, this sounds like this is really an issue of trust that you want to make
sure that no one sneaks in a third bedroom and if the Board decides that you want a two bedroom
system, then we’ll agree to put in a two bedroom system. That’s, Ed was just trying to design the
best system he could and if the Board wants a two bedroom system, we’ll put a two bedroom
system in, it’s just not worth arguing about.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I appreciate that because as you understand from coming here
before when you put the three bedroom system in, it does move it closer to the lake, the very thing
that we’re trying to protect. If you put a two bedroom system in there, you can gain additional
reserve, yea, you can.
MR. LAPOINT-It’s the same amount of sewage.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I’m not talking about the sewage, I’m talking about the proximity of the
leachfield to the lake which is one of the variances you’re seeking. The larger that leachfield, the
closer to the lake you get and you admitted that you wouldn’t be able to do anything on that
property if it was a new property, you’re already too close to do anything.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-If that’s the Board’s preference, we’ll put in a two bedroom system.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Jon, let me ask the question, has anybody thought about a holding
tank? Is that an option?
MR. LAPOINT-They’re not recommended, the Department of Health, they require a lot of
maintenance, you have to have somebody come pump them out routinely. This distribution system,
it’s tried and true, it’s gravity, it will filter, it will protect the lake’s quality. I can’t imagine the
difference in the distance between the leachfield would make that much difference, if any.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I’m not so set on that, just my own opinion. Certainly we want to keep
things away from the lake and you can understand that, Ed, has that option been thought of, though I
guess is my question.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-This is an improvement over what’s there now and a holding tank is not
preferable because you don’t
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Of the expense.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-And the inconvenience that you have to, you know, all winter long if you’re
there or all summer long you have to have it pumped frequently.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Is it a seasonal home or is it a four season home?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 7
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Seasonal.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, there goes the problem there.
MR. LAPOINT-But I have a holding tank at my house on the lake and it’s the least desirable option
in the State’s Guidance.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But you know, and I understand that but I would wonder why because
nothing, literally, nothing escapes.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-So why would that be the least desirable?
MR. LAPOINT-They rational the maintenance
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It can’t penetrate the lake, it can’t get into the lake because it just goes
nowhere. So, why would that be the least desirable?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Our leach bed, Tim here is ninety feet from the lake so I mean in terms of
the distance from the lake that we’re trying to protect, this is certainly a lot better then what we have
now. It’s a modern system.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Isn’t it eighty-two feet?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Well the eighty-two feet is because we’re counting from the edge of the
retaining wall because that’s how it has to be counted but the leachfield is really ninety.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Okay.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-You see, again I’ve wrestled with this and Roger agrees to some
degree but he disagrees with me also because this came up the last time we met, given the soil type,
the seasonal spikes that we’re going to see with these summer camps with the relatives all up there
on one weekend, you know, and their friends and you can’t find a parking spot and you know how
these infiltration beds are pushed to the limit probably during those short moments and you know,
everyone’s taking a shower, everyone’s over, they’ve been out in the lake all day and everyone’s
got to take a shower in the evening before you go out to dinner, you know, it’s vacation time. So,
there’s going to be heavy spikes in the camp usage that we see around Lake George and any lake
and then the limitation here, the evapotransporation limitations. Given all of that, I prefer to see
something that’s designed a little bit bigger then what was designed for the average usages because
this is not average, this is unique and so the debate has gone on here. I mean, so, I don’t have
personally a problem with the oversized portion of it, and Ms. Bitter, is this the application that we
were going to discuss, an aerobic pretreatment.
ATTORNEY BITTER-Yes and I mentioned that to Ed as to if the Board wanted some distinction…
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay, and here’s where I sit. I have no problem with the system as
designed, I would feel a lot better if it had an aerobic pretreatment and I would feel a lot better if
somehow I got assurances that it is only going to be, although through the Zoning Board and
everything, it’s only going to be a two bedroom house.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Actually we’ll condition it that it’s a two bedroom house, that’s what
they’re asking for.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Didn’t you just say on the record it’s a four bedroom house?
ATTORNEY BITTER-Currently.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It is now Roger.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yes.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 8
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I just want to know.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I just, I’m hearing, a hear a lot of different things and I want to make sure
I hear it correctly.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, I want to be clear. It’s four bedroom now, it’s going to be converted
to a two bedroom.
MR. LAPOINT-An aerobic system is going to require a blower and an electric hookup and a vent,
alright and actually, what they’ll do is encourage the transport of solids through the leachate system
into the field because there’s a certain amount of agitation. The tradeoff for a faster decomposition
in a aerobic environment, you’re trading it for the physical separation of the sludge through the
bottom of the tank and the scum to the top. What you’re depending on is clarified effluent going to
the distribution system for that leachate system to last longer. With an agitated system, that will sit
idle for six months out of the year and then be active for six months, you’re going to send that spiky
flow through and send solids through to your leach system which is what you don’t want to do.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Yea, but I can’t think in terms of the current owner. I’ve got to think
that the current owner could sell this house tomorrow and the new owner wants to make it year
round and that’s really what’s happening on Lake George so I can’t
MR. LAPOINT-I guess what I would say is I think it gives you a less quality effluent to be perfectly
honest then a gravity system.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well all the literature that I’ve read says that the pretreatment, the
aerobic pretreatment actually come out with a cleaner effluent then
MR. LAPOINT-The people who sell it will say that, yes.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well, I read independent literature that didn’t come from the
manufacturers on the topic and they all, they all agree.
MR. LAPOINT-I respectively disagree. Again, the size of the tank, etcetera, the tried and true
gravity system, I mean all systems have to be maintained and they have to be replaced in their due
time, the reason why leachate field is going to have to be replaced is because of it’s solids loading
and nothing else. The clearer the effluent that goes to that leachfield, the longer your system will
last. You’ll pump out an aerobic tank the same amount as an anaerobic tank, maybe once every
three years and clean it all out. What you don’t want to do is dig up the whole leachfield because of
the solids loading to it and blowers fail, there’s got to be a vent on it and this close proximity with
all the houses.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-The last one we approved had an alarm system and everything else.
MR. LAPOINT-Odors, I mean.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And it was a similar situation as you do, I mean.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Vented back through the house.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I mean, you have to give something
MR. LAPOINT-The air has got to come out, it’s
COUNCILMAN BOOR-It’s vented back through house, on the last application.
MR. LAPOINT-Not as reliable as a gravity system.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-No, but the, all of the literature says that the effluent is cleaner, it
doesn’t put the demand on your infiltration system as you’re, as the proposed. That’s what the
literature says and that’s what other engineers have said.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 9
MR. LAPOINT-That, I will, I just respectively disagree.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And you have the right to disagree with that. I don’t know if we’ll
see that as a Board that way or not, we’ll kind to see how things pan out tonight.
SUPERVISOR STEC-I’d like to declare the public hearing open at this time and ask if there’s any
members of the public that would like to come and comment on this application? Just raise your
hand and I’ll call on you. Yes, sir, in the back.
ATTORNEY JOHN CAFFRY-Good evening, I’m John Caffry from the Law Firm of Caffry and
Flower representing Dr. George Russo who is next to me here, he’s the adjoining property owner.
Although the property is in the name of his wife Sarah, which was put on the plans. I have some
things I’d like to give the Board so I think I’ll do that before I start if you don’t mind. (on file in the
Town Clerk’s Office)
SUPERVISOR STEC-That’s fine.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-A couple of them I only have one copy so I guess I’ll give them to the
Supervisor.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We’ll share them and do you need them back? John, will you need these
back at the end?
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-No, these are for the file.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Okay.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-First thing that Dr. Russo has asked me to note is that the plans refer to
Waters Edge Road as being located next to this system and it’s actually Dr. Russo’s driveway. It’s
a private right-of-way there, or it’s his driveway, it may have, provide access elsewhere but it’s
actually his driveway, I’m assuming it just got named that for 911 purposes or something. So, he’s
the adjoining property owner really on two sides. So, what they’re asking for here is to put a mound
only five feet away from his property on the side where the driveway is. He’s opposed to the
granting of the variance. There’s absolutely no proof of hardship attached to this application. As
you know, there’s a pretty strict standard for proving hardship and there’s just no evidence in the
application of why this variance needs to be granted for financial reasons. It doesn’t meet your
standards for the sewage disposal code. It’s going to affect the drainage around Dr. Russo’s house
and driveway and he believes that you ought to require this applicant to use a holding tank instead
because that would be more protective of the environment. We also think that the hearing notice
was defective, it only mentioned three variances being needed but there’s actually other issues
where it doesn’t conform to the code and either they have to be corrected or else variances need,
additional variances need to be applied for and the hearing re-advertised. Those are mentioned,
some of them in the memo from our engineer, Dennis MacElroy, that’s one of the things we just
handed up to you. Again, looking at your code and proof of variance, they need to show
unnecessary hardship that would deprive the owner of reasonable use. If provided absolutely no
proof, that going to a holding tank instead this system is necessary for them to have the reasonable
use of the property. They haven’t shown any special circumstances, there’s a lot of small lots
around the lake, they should be brought into conformance. They have to prove that it won’t be
materially detrimental to among other things, adjoining properties. Again, they’re looking for
setback variances from Dr. Russo’s property, it’s only five feet on one side and eight feet on the
other where the minimum required is ten feet. If this was a garage and it’s bigger then a lot of
garages, it would require fifteen feet. Dr. Russo is concerned about the visual impact of this large
mound being right next to his yard and he’s also concerned about how it’s going to affect the
drainage. It’s approximately twenty-seven by thirty, it’s over twenty-eight hundred cubic feet, the
size of this mound. He can tell you how this proposed system is only a few feet from his vegetable
garden that he’s maintained for, he says about forty-five years and he’s concerned about the sewage
effluent draining into the soil beneath his garden which he believes is a health concern. The
application on page 4 recognizes that there’s an increase risk of pollutants. They said the Eljen
system will be better then the existing system which maybe true but that doesn’t mean it’s better
then a holding tank would be and a holding tank wouldn’t create the crowding impact and the visual
impact on Dr. Russo’s property that this would be. Also, there’s no proof that this is the minimum
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 10
variance although that may have been addressed somewhat already with the statement by Mr.
Lapper that they will eliminate the house to two bedrooms, we were going to bring that up. You do
away with the whirlpool and you limit it to two bedrooms, it will be a smaller system, it will be,
able to be redesigned so it won’t have as much impacts, that would may be more of a minimum
variance. I filed a copy of the house plans which were filed as part of the area variance application
for the Zoning Board of Appeals and on the second floor there’s a large vacant area there that isn’t
identified on the plans and if that’s going to be cathedral ceiling or something and not going to have
a floor, then maybe it isn’t a problem. But if it’s an open area that could potentially be converted to
a third bedroom or something, that could be a potential problem. It’s just not clear from the plans
what’s going to be there, so that could be a potential issue. So, we think, as already been suggested,
there ought to be a permit condition limiting this house to two bedrooms only. There’s a number of
areas where this application doesn’t meet the code, we don’t think. With regard to the setback from
the lake, question eleven on the application talks about setback from water supplies. Dr. Russo has
a water intake in the lake. I believe the applicants have a water intake in the lake and the next door
neighbors, Moynihan probably have a water intake in the lake. None of the locations of those water
intakes have been shown on the plans. This system is going to be eighty, eighty-five feet from the
lake and of course, once you hit the lake there’s no treatment going on and so you have a potential
impact to these water supplies and that’s an issue that really hasn’t been addressed. If you had an
area where there was town water, it would be quite so much, big deal, you would always be
concerned about the lake but where you’ve got water intakes for people’s homes right there, that’s a
really significant issue. And they’ve measured it at eighty-three feet from the lake, but if you
measure it from the closes point of the retaining wall to the closest point on the lake, it’s actually
probably a little bit under eighty feet or maybe just barely eighty feet. If you would look at or if you
can look at it later, the memo we filed from Dennis MacElroy whose an engineer that we retained
on this matter, he’s pointed out a number of issues with the system where it doesn’t meet the code, I
won’t go into all of them but I will address some of the more major ones. There is, his paragraph 2,
the code requires that fill systems have slopes of no more then one to three in order I think to
probably try and decrease the setbacks, variances or to squeeze this in where it doesn’t really fit.
Instead of having those slopes, they have retaining walls around the mound system itself. So,
instead of having one to three you basically have a vertical slope and that doesn’t meet the standards
of your code, that’s an issue that isn’t addressed in the application at all and it’s quite possible that
that reduces the amount of treatment you get cause the extra fill around the mound is going to have
some potential treatment benefits, most of it’s going to go down but there’s also lateral spreading as
well. So, there’s an issue that wasn’t addressed in the application. He also points out that, as
somebody mentioned you’re supposed to have three feet between the system and groundwater and
the way it’s shown on the plans, doesn’t seem to take into effect that there’s, what they call six
inches of concrete sand base under the physical distribution pipes or whatever they are and they
didn’t appear to have measured that concrete sand which is really part of the system. So, you may
really need another six inches of fill rather then count that but it’s just not addressed clearly on the
application and that needs to be addressed. There was a question about the fill and material, the fill
and material that was discussed but it’s not on the plans. The code requires that basically
stormwater controls on these mounds and there’s a couple of issues. One, I think the code is
looking at keeping stormwater flows from rushing into the mound and having some kind of
diversion around it. We’re also concerned because it’s so close to my client’s property and so close
to his driveway that the, this could actually block stormwater flows coming from elsewhere in the
neighborhood and if you look at the pictures and you see the amount of water that accumulates in
this area when it rains, that’s a real concern. And likewise the water flowing off of the mound onto
our property could be an issue. I’ve got another client elsewhere on the lake who has had a real
problem with that with his neighbor’s mound system. So, these are issues that haven’t been
addressed in the application. We have a concern about the most recent test hole, it was done by
Charlie Maine, Charlie Maine obviously is the Dean, if you will of soil scientists out here but it’s
just done by a small diameter, auger holes as we understand it. This is a rather complicated
groundwater situation in this neighborhood, as Dr. Russo is going to address and it’s kind of hard to
see what’s in there if you’re just taking an auger sample. It would have been a lot better if a large
test hole had been dug and you could get a bigger look and a better look of what’s in the ground
there and the location of the test hole isn’t provided on the plan. If you look at the plans, you don’t
even know if it’s where the hole, where the system is or not. I assume it was but that needs to be
verified. Mr. MacElroy raises a concern about the length of the Eljen In-Drain systems and they
don’t really match the manufacturer’s recommendations for the layout of them. So, his
recommendations are that it would be prudent to request additional test pits and do them during the
high groundwater periods. I believe the test hole was done in December which is really a low
groundwater period, it would be a lot better to do them when groundwater is high and see what the
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 11
actual seasonal high groundwater is. There’s other requirements to, or he also recommends as
somebody mentioned some additional mitigation. If you’re not going to go to a holding tank, then
there ought to be additional mitigation such as aerobic treatment, bio-filtration or some other type of
system in order to make up for the effect of the variance. So, there’s a number of issues where our
engineer believes that this application doesn’t meet code besides the obvious setback issues. Either
they’re going to have to revise it or they’re going to have to go for additional variances but I think
the fact that it needs so many variances to cram this mound system onto this little tiny lot shows that
it’s problematic and while you may not want holding tanks everywhere, this is probably the type of
location where a holding tank is the best solution just cause it’s such a small lot and it’s surrounded
by other houses so close by. We’re not sure if you’ve had your engineers review it, you may want
to refer this to CT Male. With regard to the drainage, again, Dr. Russo is going to describe that and
you’ve got the photos there but he is concerned about runoff onto his property. We noted in the
minutes of the November meeting, that Mr. Stec asked for elevations and other information
regarding drainage and that doesn’t seem to have been provided. We think the applicants ought to
address that situation and the alternative of a holding tank, would also technically need a variance
but we think it would be less detrimental to the neighborhood and to the lake. So, we ask that you
deny the variance and require them to go to a holding tank instead. Does anybody have any
questions about the issues that I addressed?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yea, well, one question I have on these, these plans for the house, I can’t
read the date when they were stamped.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-I think they’re from October or something and we got them from the
Zoning Board, I can’t tell you that they’re the most
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Of 2004, 10-05-04, is that correct?
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-That sounds like the date I saw on there, yea.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-But we got them from the Zoning Office.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I only bring that up because it’s says three bedroom house here, so I’m a
little confused.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-I don’t know, we just got them from the Zoning Board.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Alright.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-And again, it’s possible that that issue may have been addressed already
but I think that those plans need to be clarified before they go to Zoning Board. I also assume that
this application won’t go to the Zoning Board until the septic system gets resolved and I think that
would be good policy but that may be up to that Board. Any other questions? Dr. Russo.
DR. RUSSO-I’ll be as brief as you wish, I just jotted down a few notes here. John’s covered many
of the points. I think maybe a paragraph of history of that area. As you see on the large picture, the
whole grass area which is the, I understand the property is changing ownership now but that, I’ll
refer to it as the Zibro land, that whole grass area and you can see a periphery of homes extending
from the left all of the way around to the right, some five, six homes. To the best of my knowledge,
as I have heard primarily from the West, Seelye family, I believe they’re both deceased now, Mr.
West was eighteen years old when he helped build our house which is just behind the white house
you see on the left of the big large picture. He mentioned a lot of what when on back in the
twenties, apparently this whole area from where the large picture is taken going forward north to the
lake, was a swamp and they came in with rocks, boulders and every time I dug a hole, I found
yellow or orange clay and they filled in a periphery and put the houses on them and to the best of
my knowledge, all of the homes, certainly ours did, had basically, it was a steel tank but a septic pit
or some small container and those functioned for some fifty to seventy years. The families had
nothing more then that. So, one of my, the points I’d like to make to the body here is that there’s
something additional going on that is changing the situation and that’s one of the reasons why I’m
so concerned that the whole area be taken a hard look at. But any rate, Mr. West told me that in
order to drain the water which came, obviously was coming down off the hill from Rockhurst and
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 12
the rain and so on and so forth, what they did was they dug an underground, a sizeable underground
trench drain that was some two hundred feet long that went from the center of this large grass area
due east between the Donnelly and End properties and drained into the lake. And it stands to
reason, Mr. West last spoke to me, I don’t know, ten years ago that that drained is simply
nonfunctional and for that and other reasons, this whole area is again becoming a wetland and a
swamp only this time the groundwater level is very measurably above where it was before. One of
the evidences as I have of, oh, Mr. West’s summation that not only did they dig that large trench,
underground trench to drain the water but they planted many Maple Trees and many Willow Trees
and those Willow Trees grew to great size and recently within the seven, eight years, it’s hard to say
exactly when it happened, all of those trees seemed to die at once. Some of them still remain. My
personal feeling is that the roots either drowned or in the winter, the roots were attacked by ice and
killed. Another brief subject I’d like to make, because our home going back, we bought our home
1960 and I noticed as a young man that the house on the pilings would heave during the winter and
as a result of that, I became interested in of course the groundwater level, the ice, if I could do
anything to improve this so that the house wouldn’t have such a problem in the winter. And about
twenty-five years ago I took a four inch plastic pipe and drilled a vertical hole down right in, rather
the middle of our property, put it all the way down, a piece of slate across the bottom, made a float
and a stick and observed where the groundwater actually was, as the year progressed. To be very
brief about it, not infrequently I’ll see it after a heavy rains within one foot of the grass, when we
start to relax and feel that we’re not under such a burden, it will be done two and a half feet, three
feet, alright. Right now, interestingly I went and the stick is all of the way down to the bottom, the
pipe is four feet long. So, the groundwater level right now is more then four feet down, lake is also
a little bit low. I’ve noticed as you go into fall, certainly into November the groundwater level does
start to go down for various reasons as the ground begins to harden up. It’s one of the reasons why
th
this groundwater test that was done on December 6, I believe is of such concern to me. Quite
frankly, I’d like a very thorough examination of the actual groundwater problems. I would be glad
to go over the details of these pictures to you. I think it somewhat speaks for itself, looking down
that driveway on one of the double, or both of the double pictures. You see the Moynihan, Phil
Moynihan, I spoke to him tonight, he’s in a wheelchair, couldn’t get down here but his, he said you
speak for me, but I’d rather have him speak for himself. You can see the impact it’s having on their
garage, his son came out to me last summer and he said the concrete in our garage has cracked and
has heaved almost six inches, I said I’ve been telling you about this for years. So, these bits of
water now in front of the two boats that are covered, that water is there virtually permanently. Each
year it gets worse. The water that you see in front of the Taylor property, Russo property and
Moynihan property, after each rain you’ll see, these pictures were taken twenty-four hours after a
meaningful rainstorm, I will say. Those waters can be found out there not for minutes, not for
hours, not even for days, sometime the waters out there in that driveway for a week and if you get
an inch rain, it’s there permanently. Okay, and you can see the water extending forward over the
Taylor property line out to his property, that’s the area where this mound is supposed to go.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Dr. Russo, you’re to the west of the Taylors?
DR. RUSSO-Yes, we are to the west, you can barely see one window in our house there.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And Moynihans are to the right?
DR. RUSSO-Moynihans are to the right and under those huge trees, I refer to them as cedars, just
beyond that is the Taylor residence and that’s the area they’re talking about to put in whatever they
decide, I would certainly hope it’s a holding tank.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-So, you can’t see their residence because of the trees and
DR. RUSSO-Because of the trees.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Those two boats are parked there as well? Are we looking at the
same picture?
DR. RUSSO-No, no, no.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, that’s a different angle.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yea, right here.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 13
DR. RUSSO-Yea.
SUPERVISOR STEC-I agree with you.
DR. RUSSO-I’m looking at this picture showing the Moynihan garage and
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yea, you’re right John.
DR. RUSSO-Where it says property line, it says property line.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Yea, right.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Right above the word Taylor.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Right.
DR. RUSSO-Just beyond those trees is the Taylor residence and just to the right you’ll see a corner,
a white window with some brown shingles, that’s our house and right where that picture ends is our
property line, our western property line and that’s where I’ve had the garden for so many years.
That mound will be three feet or more above that ground level and I right, eight feet away I believe
it is, I’m digging one foot or two feet down into the ground, that’s a five foot pressure-head. I
mean, I’m wondering what’s going to be watering the garden. So, there are many more things that I
could go into here and not the least of which are the trees, I’ll just mention that very briefly. Over
the years I asked the Breck family back in the 1960’s, and then the Prince family in 1970’s, 1980’s,
why don’t you cut down those trees, they darken the house and so on and so forth. From both, I got
the same answer, they take the water out of the septic pit. Now, how can reasonable people
consider even measuring groundwater levels when those five huge trees are still there right where
this pit is supposed to go or this body is supposed to go. So, I’ll stop there but I’d be glad to answer
questions on any other matter.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Any questions? Anyone else from the public would like to speak this
evening? Yes, ma’am.
DR. RUSSO-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you Doctor.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-John, did we get the text of what you had to say? I got a lot of
materials from you tonight, did we get the text of what you had to say?
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-No.
SUPERVISOR STEC-I’ve got the originals of what you gave us.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-You’ve got to read the minutes of this.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-You have the engineer’s report, part of what I said summarizes it.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-But the minutes are abbreviated and they’re not word for word so I
don’t use the minutes for anything to be honest with you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Public hearings are though.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-I’m sorry.
SUPERVISOR STEC-You do public hearings word for word though.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER-Yes.
SUPERVISOR STEC-John, public hearings are transcribed word for word.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 14
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Oh, they are.
SUPERVISOR STEC-The public hearing, yea.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay, thanks Caroline, I didn’t know that.
MS. SUSAN BARDIN-Good evening, Susan Bardin from the Lake George Association and I regret
that I don’t know the specifics of this application. However, that being said, onsite wastewater
treatment is always more effective then a holding tank. So, I would advocate granting of these
variances for the shoreline setback with the Eljen In-Drain System and the pretreatment, aerobic
system for pretreatment of the wastewater before it goes to leachfield. And finally, I think that
designing the system for two bedrooms is a better option. I think when you have the whirlpool tub
and you drain that, you have so much water going into the wastewater treatment system. If you
don’t have a gray water system and that makes the system have to be maintained more frequently.
It puts more, it’s more taxing on the system. Thanks.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you, Susan. Yes, Mr. Navitsky.
MR. CHRIS NAVITSKY-Good evening, Chris Navitsky, Lake George Waterkeeper. I’d just like
to follow up, I sent a letter in a couple of weeks ago and I do agree that, you know with these lots
that, they’re postage stamp, they’re tight, you know people want to redevelop it and take a look at
that. But I do think that as they request some variances and relief from the Board, I think that the
Board and the lake has a right to get some more back also and such things as the treatment system,
the secondary treatment would be good there. I thought I saw in one of the correspondences that
this, the Eljen was actually called a secondary treatment unit and that’s not true, the Eljen is
basically similar to a leachfield and they got relief from New York State Department of Health due
to size requirement and actually can reduce what their length is out in the field. But that does not
give you additional treatment. I would strongly encourage to take a look at the aerobic treatment
units, I think that this site warrants it and as they get relief from the setbacks, then we need to take a
look and get a stronger system in there so. And again, I think another concern is to really justify
that is that that twenty-foot taper is important for treatment, that you do need that as your effluent
trickles and filters out. By that taking that retaining wall in, they’re limiting that basil area that you
need for infiltration and treatment. So, I think that that’s another strong reason to take a look at
secondary treatment because with these retaining walls in there, that takes away that taper area that
we need, the basil area for treatment and disposal. So, I strongly would encourage the aerobic
treatment unit or secondary treatment.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Chris, let me ask you a question. Specific to this case and or in general, the
Eljen System versus a holding tank? Because Susan frankly, to be blunt, surprised me and frankly
we’ve gone in the direction of holding tanks in a lot of the difficult situation. We’ve heard people
advocate for that this evening and I mean I know you and Susan have a lot of expertise in this area
and she surprised me. So, not to put you or her on the spot but what are your thoughts?
MR. NAVITSKY-I do not like holding tanks for new applications. I feel that that is creating
development where it can not, where the soils and the site can not allow it. We’ve got a site that is
not new development here, it’s redevelopment. I do not advocate holding tanks but they are an
option for a redeveloped site. I do not think that they should be allowed for new development but
redevelopment, I’ve strongly would take a look at the aerobic system but you know, holding tank in
a replacement, I think there are arguments either way. But for new development, I don’t support
that.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Chris, I have a question for you. Obviously this is not going to have the
taper as you refer to so I think Dr. Russo pointed out pressure and certainly when you put water in a
column, you create pressure and that is certainly a concern I would have is if you essentially create
this walled up area, put water in it, at the bottom you’ve got a lot of pressure and these pictures
would indicate that the ground stays fairly well saturated all the time. So, I’m not sure even which
way this water will move when it comes out of this thing. Is it going to go into the neighbor’s yard?
Is it going to go towards the lake? You know, is it going to go into the garden? Certainly I think
Mr. Brewer’s comments were probably pretty close to what mine would be leaning towards, if I was
going to take the most protective view you can and that is the, in some instances a holding tank
probably is the best solution. Just putting more water into water doesn’t, doesn’t seem to benefit the
neighbors or the lake.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 15
MR. NAVITSKY-I agree with that. I don’t know where the water will go under pressure. I don’t
know the soils, I don’t know, you know as you remove trees, as you possibly excavate a new
foundation, you relieve what soils are, are. You could be creating new paths subsurface, I would
not know. But, as I said, it’s a difficult decision but there are, there are reasons and justifications for
the holding tank. But I don’t, but I think that that’s a problem on new development.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Can I ask you one more question?
MR. NAVITSKY-Yes, sir.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-My mind is completely, I don’t understand. I hear everybody saying
we want to protect the lake. How can anybody be against something that would allow absolutely
zero nothing into the lake versus a system that for whatever reason if the system fails, there’s
potential for that effluent to get into the lake. How do you justify that?
MR. NAVITSKY-I said on new development with the holding tanks.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Whether it’s new or, or
MR. NAVITSKY-Well, I think on new that means that this site, if you’re looking at a holding tank
then your soils aren’t there, your conditions should not be built on. With your comments on the
holding tank on a redeveloped site, you take a look at the effluent standards that come out of an
aerobic treatment unit, you are looking at treatment of, that removes ninety-nine percent of your
biological
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yea, but a holding tank removes one hundred percent, you can’t get
any better then that.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well both systems require some level of maintenance and upkeep and there
are some key assumptions.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Understood, putting the maintenance aside.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-That’s true but when the holding tank is full the alarms go off and
that’s it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-And if there’s alarm and the system doesn’t work when it’s full, I, I, it
boggles my mind.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Well, not only that but Chris, on this site, you’ve got loamy soil,
you’ve got point one three seven acres, you’ve got stormwater concerns from neighbors, you have
groundwater table that’s not too far from the surface, I mean you do have a lot of question marks as
to how safe and secure, even if they do put a pretreatment in, this Eljen System’s going to be in the
long run. And now, so, you know, having a holding tank would not be completely unjustified.
MR. NAVITSKY-I didn’t, I feel that there are
SUPERVISOR STEC-That’s what you said.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-No, he didn’t say that.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, he said under new construction.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Right.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Now, on the other matter, now you’ve heard me speak to the over
sizing of the systems because of the unique problems on Lake George, you have this weekend usage
with many, many more people then what is expected in the normal household. I mean, you’ve got
guests, friends, relatives, you got parties going, I mean, you’ve got a lot of activity going up there
and you can tell by the number of cars that are there during the summer, there’s a lot of people
there. Now, are the septic systems designed for that kind of high usage in that short amount of
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 16
time? I mean, all these people are taking showers and everything else like I mentioned previously.
I mean, it’s vacation, it’s summer and you know, the hot tub and whatever else, you’re going to see
all of that extra use and everything else. I mean, a normally sized system I fear may not be ample
enough to service those kinds of spikes, those effluent spikes.
MR. NAVITSKY-With the tank, with the trickle out of that and I believe there was a pump system
here, you know, you will have some form of a buffer that it won’t be continuous. But Mr. Strough,
your point is well taken and I’m, as I said, I, this might be a case for a holding tank. But I think
when you do put in the aerobic system, I do think you do provide that extra treatment, but this is as
somebody characterized similar to a tennis court, so. I mean, you are extremely limited, so.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-The other thing Chris, just to, this will be the last comment but let’s
assume it’s one hundred percent clean water, it’s still appears to me that the site is incredibly wet
without additional water. So, I don’t know why we even be wanting to add clean water to a site
that’s already very, very wet. You know, there again, the assumption being that we’re getting
ninety-nine point whatever percent cleansing of the effluent using the aerobic. It’s problematic.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Keep in mind though, this water is not on this applicant’s property, is
it?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well, no, that’s the problem. It will be pushing it even more.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I know, but we’re talking about water that we see standing here and
assuming that’s on this person’s property and it’s not necessarily the
SUPERVISOR STEC-That’s on the neighbor’s property.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Understood.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Okay.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We’re not talking about this piece of property that the application is
before us.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Oh, I see what you’re saying.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-So, I just steer caution to thinking that just because there’s water on the
next door neighbor’s property, doesn’t automatically make us assume that there’s standing water on
this person’s property, I guess is my point.
SUPERVISOR STEC-That’s true but I think that the counter argument would be that we could be
creating a situation that
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And he’s seeking a variance from this property line.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Understood but what makes you think, what makes you think that the
person that owns this property where the water is doesn’t have a problem
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think he does.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Creating a problem for the other person.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think he does.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Right.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But he’s not here asking to put a larger system on his property.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I understand that but
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 17
COUNCILMAN BREWER-You talk about this water, find out the stem of the problem before you
assume that it’s this person trying to put a septic system in, I guess is what I’m trying to say.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Right, but it could be made worse.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Could be, yea.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Or it could not.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Or it could not be.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Chris, anything else?
MR. NAVITSKY-No. No thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Anything else for Chris? Anyone else from the public like to comment on
this public hearing? Mr. Tucker.
MR. PLINEY TUCKER, Division Road-Is this septic system that John Salvador was talking to you
people about last week?
SUPERVISOR STEC-I think it is.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I believe it is, Pliney, he sent us a letter.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yea, he sent us a letter.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Yea.
MR. TUCKER-You guys have got the letter?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yes.
MR. TUCKER-That’s all I was supposed to find out. It’s going to be part of the record, right?
SUPERVISOR STEC-It’s going to be part of the record.
MR. TUCKER-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yup, you’re welcome Mr. Tucker. Anyone else, first time? Mr. Auer.
MR. DOUG AUER, 16 Oakwood Drive-Good evening. Doug Auer, 16 Oakwood Drive. I wasn’t
going to comment, I really had no interest in this but it brings to mind the more important issue.
This discussion I don’t believe would even be taking place if the code was followed. I think
waivers and variances are the things that have gotten us into this situation and I think this is where
we end up spending a lot of time. So, just my thought.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you. Anyone else like to comment this evening? Okay, Mr. Caffry,
rebuttal.
ATTORNEY CAFFRY-I’d just like to clarify a couple of, for one thing really, Mr. Brewer asked
about the standing water whose property was it on. If you look at the sheet of photos that’s got two,
they’re basically photos taped together, you know stuck together but if you look at the one that’s got
one over the other, the top one shows a large amount of standing water right above where it says
Taylor property line. So that water, there is standing water on the applicant’s property, if not
exactly where this system would go immediately adjacent to that area.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yup, see it. Thank you for pointing that out cause I missed it the first time
too. Mr. Lapper. Dave Hatin, do you have anything that you’d like to add?
MR. DAVE HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Let Jon talk and then I’ll comment.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 18
SUPERVISOR STEC-Okay, thank you.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Okay, a couple of things. There’s nothing real unique about small parcels
on the lake that have been rezoned to larger minimum lot size that are trying to renovate their homes
and upgrade their septic systems. The applicant has the option of keeping the seepage pit that’s
right there and a four bedroom home and renovating the house and making cosmetic changes and
just leaving it there. And that would be a preferable option rather then a holding tank which is just a
real inconvenience in terms of lifestyle and not being able to wash dishes and take showers because
you have to have a truck come and pump out all the water and drive down the road and it’s
expensive and it’s inconvenient. So, so you have to weigh this against leaving a seepage pit which I
think that Dr. Russo indicated has been there since something like the twenties on all these, on all
these sites and that’s not preferable. That’s, I mean just in terms of looking at the lake in a larger
sense, it’s a question of creating systems that are scientifically an upgrade from what’s there. You
know, certainly we’ve had discussions about pre-treating and if that’s where this Board goes, you
know that’s something that we can look at. But, I was pleased to see Susan from the LGA talk
about dealing with these onsite, I mean, everyone on the lake isn’t going to want to go to holding
tanks and I know that this Board has granted reasonable variances in the past for upgraded systems.
So, I think you really have to look at the possibility of just leaving the seepage pit there, if there’s no
real option that the Town grants and I don’t think that that’s preferable. In terms of the drainage
issue, the drainage issue was on what was the Zibro’s site, I understand it’s been purchased and
what Dr. Russo said and I’m aware of this from other clients that there was a drainage way that
went from there to the lake that had nothing to do with this site. The Taylor property is higher then
that Zibro field so it can’t drain through this property to the lake and that’s why they had an
underground drainage system. If that needs to be maintained, that’s not, it’s not a Town system, it
needs to be done privately by the neighbors that own the property, the Donnelly’s and the End’s, I
guess it goes along their border and that’s what gets the water into the lake and whether or not that
should happen without treatment is another story. But it’s not something that’s exacerbated by the
Taylor property because the Taylor property is higher then that. So, that really has nothing to do
with what’s going on here. This is an attempt to do something that’s scientifically appropriate with
this Board’s approval, you know, whatever system is ultimately determined to be the best system
and you know, we just ask you not to impose a holding tank because that would probably leave the
applicant to just leave it alone and I don’t think that that’s in the best interest of the Town or the
lake. One thing that Attorney Caffry said in terms of the three bedroom, it is an open loft so there’s
no attempt to do a three bedroom and he may have had, he may have had an older set of plans. But
what’s been submitted to the Town is two bedroom and in terms of whether the correct variances
were requested, we submitted that to Dave Hatin and Dave looked at it and told us that these were
the variances that the Town requires and that’s why we’re here. And I think that covers most of the
issues.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Any other questions right now before I ask Dave Hatin to come up?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-One more. Jon, you go before the Zoning Board quite often and I have to
believe that you’re here because if you go to the Zoning Board with this system that you say is in
the ground, they’re going to say well we want you to up, improve the system before we’ll grant
whatever variance you’re going to be seeking from them. So, I think the notion that you could just
leave it and go do what you want to do probably is incorrect or you’d be at the Zoning Board right
now and not be worried about improving this system.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-You’re correct, we can’t go in for a new house without upgrading the septic
system to code. So, they would have to pull that application, keep the house that they have now and
just renovate it. They couldn’t do a rebuild but they’re also going Roger from a four bedroom to a
two bedroom which is a big deal and they’re moving it, they’re proposing to move it from the side
setback to make it less nonconforming. You know, part of it, it cuts both ways, when you go to the
Zoning Board, you want to say, look, part of what we’re providing to the Town is that we’re going
to bring the system as close to code as you can, we’re going to upgrade the system and the Zoning
Board wants to hear that. But we’re here because in order to do a renovation at the Zoning Board,
we do have to bring the system as close to compliance as possible.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Let me ask this, if we were going to entertain these variances, one of the
concerns that we had tonight and on similar applications when we talked about these mounded
systems, is the drainage and how the runoff off of this system will impact neighboring properties.
What are your thoughts on that? What is your mitigation plan?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 19
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Well, I guess one thing that, you know rather then have the attorneys act as
engineers, if you want to refer that to CT Male, that’s totally appropriate it and we can have them
look at it. But, I mean the way I understand the drainage way there, it’s not coming from the low
area across the Taylor property and in terms of this system, this system is designed appropriately as
a mound system so that it’s not going to impact the neighbors.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Do you understand the hydraulics of a column?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, the issue
COUNCILMAN BOOR-That you’re proposing putting on this property?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-The issue about the slope, what the regulations say and I know that Dave
Hatin will confirm this, is that if you have a slope rather then a retaining wall, if you have a slope,
the slope has to be a certain toe because you don’t want to have it so that it could leach through the
slope, you don’t want to have it too steep. But here we’ve solved that by putting in a retaining wall
which will be impervious and would prevent that from happening.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But don’t you see that the retaining wall creates another problem and
that’s hydraulic pressure?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-The groundwater does go through that mound.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, no but as you, as a column of water gets higher it creates force. It’s
like when you clear your ears, when you go swimming it’s because the deeper the water gets there’s
more pressure, so the water that’s
ATTORNEY LAPPER-But the column is no higher. I mean, just in terms of the science the mound
is no higher with the retaining wall, it’s a question of how far off it goes to the side.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-It’s depth is what creates pressure, not lateral.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-We’ve designed this meeting a lot with Dave in terms of what is
appropriate for this type of system and I think that he’ll verify that.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I guess I, you’re seeking relief on this, it’s not just the lake, from these
property owners and the property owners are bringing us pictures with, of a very flooded site and
you’re going to create this column of treated water and you’re saying that it’s not going to impact
the neighbors and I don’t know how
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Right now, we’ve got a seepage pit right now that’s right there on the same
site so whatever is there, in terms of what’s coming from the house and what’s coming from the
rain, is going into the ground anyway and it’s not exacerbating the low area in the back on the Zibro
property. That’s a separate problem that has nothing to do with this. Yea the neighbor can come
and show you pictures of his neighbor’s property when there’s rain but that doesn’t mean that this,
the Taylor property has anything to do with that. I mean, if the Town wants to take that on which
isn’t a Town drainage issue, that’s probably good for all of the neighbors but that’s a private
drainage issue for private owners.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I guess it all comes back to this is, at what point as an attorney
representing an applicant you say, this really isn’t a good idea but I’ll take it anyway? I mean I
know that’s a crazy question but I mean at some point you have to understand, we have to be able to
say no when something isn’t a good idea.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Let’s ask the question the other way. There are all these homes on
Cleverdale and Assembly Point that want to be upgraded. So in terms of a macro analysis, what’s
the best way to do it. Well, the best way to do it is to provide better leaching system, better science
then what’s there now then what was built in the last century and you know, in this case maybe
eighty-five years ago. A seepage pit is certainly not something that you could do now under current
DOH Regulations or under the Town of Queensbury Regulations. So the question is, what do you
do to provide the best system to deal with the effluent and what we’ve proposed is a modern system
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 20
that is a big upgrade from what’s there now and I think, as matter of policy the Town Board, Board
of Health has allowed these systems on the lake, it’s a good response to dealing with this system, to
clean the effluent before it goes into the ground.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But we don’t do it on tennis court size properties where you’re trying to
put a three bedroom house.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-That’s not, we’re trying to put a two bedroom house.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well
ATTORNEY LAPPER-There’s nothing
COUNCILMAN BOOR-You’re putting a three, you’re putting a three bedroom system which takes
up a lot more space. In other words, you only have so much space.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-But this system
COUNCILMAN BOOR-The whole property is going to be
ATTORNEY LAPPER-This lot is no smaller then a lot of other lots in the area.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But we’re talking about this one.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Right but this lot is no smaller, it’s a question of how you deal with the
effluent.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think it is small, it’s the smallest one since I, in the three years I’ve sat on
this Board this is, with the exception of one, it’s the smallest but, and we granted a holding tank in
that instance and that was the White application
ATTORNEY LAPPER-But the question is what
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And that
ATTORNEY LAPPER-What size is the leach system that you need to deal with it.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, no the question is when do you say no?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Well are you telling somebody that they, that they shouldn’t live in their
house? No, you’re telling them that they should keep their seepage pit.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, we’re saying that you should accept the house as it is.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-But I mean, but that’s a seepage pit, that’s not a good result.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I think this Board would offer you alternatives but not three
bedroom alternatives, speaking for myself.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-And we’re okay with the two bedroom alternative.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, I’m going to ask Dave Hatin to come on up, please.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Sure.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Dave.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-I’ll try not to confuse the Board anymore. I just want
to point out a couple of things so the Board understands the issues that are before them. The reason
this application is before you is because the Taylors are proposing a new residence. Under the code,
75-A which is the bible that we go by, you’re aware of the issues we have with Mr. Salvador and
some interpretations from the Department of Health, new construction you can not install holding
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 21
tanks. So that would preclude them from doing new construction. Okay, I just want to make sure
the Board is clear on that. So, a system is the only way they can go for new construction. If you
want to, say if there is no alternative and that holding tanks are the option here and the only option,
then they would have to keep the current residence and possibly renovate that, that’s their choice.
But I just wanted to be sure that the Board understands that issue before you move forward with
this.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Alright, my question, let’s stop right there is, my understanding is relative
to, I can’t remember the application but I thought, if something is, if twenty-eight percent of
something is remodeled it’s considered new construction. The Zoning Administrator Craig Brown
issued a stop-work order when more then twenty-eight percent of a house was torn down and he
considered it new construction. So, are you saying that this applicant is not going to disturb more
then twenty-eight percent?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No Roger, what I’m saying from what I understand
from the application and perhaps Jon or Mr. Taylor can clarify it, my understanding is the reason for
them being here is because they’re proposing a new residence on this property. Okay, total new
residence.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, so it is a new residence.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Okay, the residence that’s there, I think, I believe and I
could be wrong, is to be removed. Alright and they’re proposing a brand new residence, two
bedroom with the Jacuzzi right now, depending on what option you choose there.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, I guess that goes to my point that, in this day and age, we wouldn’t
grant a permit to build a house on a, in a piece of property the size of a tennis court. I mean, I think
that was one of the first things I said tonight.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-That’s for the Board to decide, I just want to point out
that new construction will not allow holding tanks. I just want to make sure that you’re clear on
that. Alright, so the Zoning Ordinance is what the trigger here. I think the percentage you
mentioned, it’s fifty percent also Roger, I’m not positive on that.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, it was twenty-eight for the one.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Okay, I could be wrong, I’m not sure. There was a
mention of a fourth variance and I’m not sure where that came from, I don’t have the information
that was provided to you tonight, I’d like to review that. But, I guess it gets to the point I’m trying
to make here is, we have a lot of, we have two engineers on different sides of the issue. We have
attorneys on different sides of the issues. We have homeowners on different sides of the issue. I
think this is an application that should be referred to CT Male so that you have an independent
review of this application, one that doesn’t have any interest in this application, it’s just for the truth
and the issues and I think this would be, it would be wise for the Board to forward this to CT Male.
Perhaps a multi-flow unit is something you want to throw in there so that we don’t do this twice and
again, the Board decide whether they want to do that with the applicant. But I just think it would be
better if we had an independent review so that the Board has good information to work with. I think
that there is some information that, I wouldn’t want to call misinformation but I think it’s slighted to
one side or the other and that concerns me because I don’t want the Board to make decisions based
on wrong information.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-What is the typical window for test pits, is it April to what?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-I believe it’s April to mid June, I think is what the
ordinance says, or the end of May.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So we wouldn’t even, if CT Male were to do this, we wouldn’t even be
entertaining anything until after April or
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Well, no I disagree with you there, you have, as John
Caffry pointed out, you have Charlie Maine who is the Godfather of soil scientist and Charlie is
very well respected in his field. Charlie has gone up there and reconfirmed Ed LaPoint’s initial test
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 22
pit data. From my understanding it was taken in an area where the field is proposed. So, I think that
information is good.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But that wasn’t done between April and June.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-It doesn’t have to be.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But, I mean, I think it’s a serious issue.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No, Roger, you have to understand the reason we have
that is because several years ago the Town Board, back in the 80’s approved six engineers to do
testing outside of those time frames and Charlie Maine was one of those people that was permitted.
Okay, so by ordinance which this Town Board can do at any time they wish, you can approve
specific engineers to do testing out of times that’s why I suggested to the applicants that they bring
Charlie Maine or somebody like him in to do that so that you had that independent review out of
those time frames.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-But isn’t there now Dave only, there’s only two people allowed to do
that in this Town right now and Charlie Maine is one and the other works somewhere Saratoga way,
somewhere down that way.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-There was sick originally approved, Tom Nace I know
is one of them and I’d have to go back to the Resolution to see who the other four are.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I don’t think there’s still six, I don’t believe.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No, I know Tom Nace and Charlie Maine is still on.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Right.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-And they’re the two that we see the most of. I believe
Tom Jarrett, I think is on that list as well.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, maybe.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-From Jarrett-Martin.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, I agree with you, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to send it to Male
but we have to have the applicant’s consent to look at the, what did you call it a multi-flow system?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Well, that has been kicked around, I know it’s been
asked by Chris Navitsky from the Waterkeeper and I think that you have to let the applicant know
whether that’s the direction you’re going to lean or not because that would influence the drawing
that goes to the engineer and it may change that drawing slightly too and it made change the
variances needed, I don’t know.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But I don’t think we have a leaning. I mean, and that’s, that’s what I’m
getting at.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Well, I guess I’m asking for the Board to make a
decision on it then.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I have one individual showing us a flood plain and another one hasn’t
characterized it as dry.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Roger, I’m not an engineer but I will tell you there’s a
difference between groundwater and runoff, alright and the two are, the two do not correlate as it
pertains to this application.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I know but I think that we have variances being asked for the property
lines that is runoff related and are you saying that it’s not important that we look at runoff?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 23
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No, what I’m saying is I think the engineer who is a
qualified person to answer that should look at that, that’s what I’m saying and I think it should be
our engineer.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-But we have to grant the variance.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Yea but I think you should go, you should have good
information based on our engineer’s review of this application.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-I think we’re going to get more information, I’m just concerned that we
get it when it’s appropriate.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-And I think now is the, my feeling and again, it’s your
decision, now is the time to refer this to our Town Engineer for review and then bring it back to the
Board.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-What happened with them always being asked to send these to CT
Male?
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Only when we requested it.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-So, why now? I have to ask why now.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Why now?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Why now?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Because you’re still in the design stages, you have
opinions on both sides of the issue.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-We’re not designing anything, that’s what we would, that’s why we would
hire an engineer, isn’t it? Isn’t that what we’re talking
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-But he’s going to review this application as proposed,
the only thing I ask is, do you want the multi-flow unit to be included in that?
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Yea, that’s the problem, what is this application.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-Right.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I mean, I’m getting the feeling right now that we’re either looking at
a holding tank, if I go by what I’m feeling the consensus is up here, or we’re going to go with a two
bedroom design, designed for a two bedroom with an aerobic pretreatment flow. Now, my guess is,
this might be where we end up because we’re going to need less of a bed, it’s going to get it away
from the property and there might not be a need for a retaining wall, if you go to a smaller system.
So, that’s what, clearly I’m hearing either one or the other, is happening. Either they’re going to go
to the two bedroom with the pretreatment or we’re going to go to a holding tank. That’s the
message I think we’ve got to send the applicant and then when they get the reengineered, then that
should go to CT Male.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-I totally agree. I totally agree.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, anything else Dave?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No, that’s it.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, Mr. Lapper.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think we have to make up our mind now.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well, I know we’ll want him at the microphone. I think John hit the nail on
the head about that’s the direction I see the Board going as well.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 24
ATTORNEY LAPPER-And us too, we’re just trying to do the right thing here. I concur with what
Dave Hatin said, I had suggested CT Male cause I know you’ve done that on other applications and
if it turns out, two bedroom pretreatment is the right answer and have CT Male confirm the
drainage, that’s okay with the applicant. We’re trying to do the right thing.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And Jon, you’re going to have to address the other issues that were
brought up by Mr. Caffry and some of the neighbors.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, I think that
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Stormwater flow.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, that would help to show where that’s really going, so, that’s okay,
we’ll have to make a resubmission and we’ll direct it to you to forward it to CT Male.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I don’t have a problem with that.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-No, I don’t have a problem with that.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Roger?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-That’s fine.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Marilyn, did you get all that? So, we’ll refer this to CT Male.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-We’ll resubmit first.
SUPERVISOR STEC-You’ll pay for it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Now, are you going to have Ed design this and then submit it to Male
or
COUNCLMAN BOOR-Yes.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, we’ll do some redesign based upon what we hear and then have that
submitted to CT Male.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And you were going to add, if my notes are right, from, I didn’t put a
date on it, you were going to add to the plan, in case shall any vehicle or traffic pass over any
portion of this disposal field, or something to that affect.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yup.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-I think last two times ago, we were worried about parking in the area
because people who park anywhere where they think they can park and even if it’s a mound and
they’ve got a 4-wheel drive, hey, they’re going to park there. You know what I mean?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yea, I’ve got one John, I know.
th
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Only on July 4.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Jon, can we ask that you submit both, a plan for a holding tank and a plan
for a two bedroom with aerobic?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-I think what
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I think that it’s clear that the applicant wont submit a plan for a holding
tank, Roger.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-What Dave said is that for new construction, DOH wouldn’t even let us do
a holding tank and that’s true.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 25
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No, he said that they don’t like that.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-No they, it’s not allowed.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-It’s not allowed.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well how did Mr. Morris get his? Did you answer that question?
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-That was done before we had interpretation from the
Department of Health regarding holding tank.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Thank you.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-There are several others too.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Okay.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-And if the mound is still going to be a problem, you may want to
design a kind of stormwater system, if it looks like it’s going to flow under the neighbor’s property.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yea, if it needs it, that can be done with a French drain.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Well, I’m pretty sure, excuse me that in the ordinance somewhere it
says that any runoff is not supposed to leave the owner’s property anyway. So they, you can’t
design it so that it will leave the property.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-We’re just trying to do it right.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-I remember that from the Planning Board, John.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And we certainly don’t want to accelerate it to the lake either.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Right.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Right. Okay, thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, so that’s the consensus of the Town Board is that we will have this
resubmit, or submitted to CT Male for engineering review and I will leave the public hearing open,
Bob or do I
COUNSEL HAFNER-It’s a new plan. It’s a new plan.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-And one other comment, Marilyn, when that
SUPERVISOR STEC-It’s a new plan, so I’ll close the public hearing.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Well, we’re not going to resubmit an application, we’re just going to
modify the plan based upon what we’ve heard tonight.
COUNSEL HAFNER-Well you’ve got to at least give the public a chance to comment and I would
think you’d want to notice them again.
COUNCLMAN BOOR-Yea.
SUPERVISOR STEC-So, my question is, close this public hearing, we’ll have a new public
hearing, we’ll be setting a new public hearing at a later time.
COUNSEL HAFNER-Yea, I think you have to do that.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-That’s fine.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 26
COUNSEL HAFNER-You can’t notify until you have the plan.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-You can’t have a public hearing until we get CT Male’s comments.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Right.
COUNSEL HAFNER-It’s got to a substantial thing.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Marilyn, when that application comes in, can we get copies of it?
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yup.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Before it goes to CT Male.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Well submit it to you.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Okay, thank you.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-So, we’re clear on what direction.
ATTORNEY LAPPER-Yup.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, I’ll close the public hearing and I anticipate that at a future date we
will set a new public hearing on a new application.
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK BARBER announced that the following letters were submitted to be
made a part of this record and are on file in the Town Clerk’s Office.
COUNCLMAN BOOR-Also just for the record, I know also the White property, that’s new
construction and that has a holding tank too so I has happened.
MR.HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-But that was no alternative…
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, there’s no alternative here without a variance, Dave.
MR. HATIN, Director of Building & Codes-That’s your decision, Roger.
January 24, 2005
Honorable Dan Stec, Supervisor
Town of Queensbury
742 Bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
Re: Taylor – Watersedge Drive, Rockhurst
Sewage Treatment System Variance
Dear Mr. Stec:
I have reviewed the application for the above referenced wastewater system variance and,
although I am unable to attend due to a conflict, would like to submit the following
comments:
1. The wastewater treatment system proposed is a raised system according to
NYSDOH regulations. §75-A.9.b.3.v of the NYSDOH Wastewater Treatment
Standards states “The edge of fill material shall be tapered at a slope of no greater
than one vertical to three horizontal with a minimum 20 foot taper”. This is to
provide a proper area for disposal (not treatment) and the criteria has not been met
for this application. §75-A.9.b.3.vi of the NYSDOH Wastewater Treatment
Standards states “Horizontal separation distances shall be measured from the outside
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 27
edge of the taper”. All horizontal dimension provided are measured from the edge
of the trenches provided and therefore, the relief requested would be greater.
2. As stated in testimony, there is a groundwater problem on the lot and to raise the
level of treatment in an attempt to avoid water quality problems, perhaps secondary
treatment should be evaluated to raise the level of treatment from the effluent.
Thank you for the consideration of these comments.
Sincerely,
Christopher Navitsky, PE
Lake George Waterkeeper
February 4, 2005
Queensbury Local Board Of Health
742 Bay Road
Queensbury, NY 12804
Re: Septic Variance
Ronald & JoAnn Taylor
14 Watersedge Drive
Gentlemen:
This letter is written to comment on the appropriateness of your granting a permit to
Ronald & JoAnn Taylor for an “alternate” onsite wastewater treatment system to support the
residential development proposed at 14 Watersedge Drive. The onsite wastewater treatment
system being proposed for this seasonal conversion is intended to operate in a Critical
Environmental Area (6NYCRR-3.8) employing an “alternate secondary treatment system”
concept known as a the “Eljen In-Drain”.
The Eljen “In-Drain” concept has been approved and recommended for a very
narrow range of uses and site conditions as an alternate for a standard system – not as a
modification to a mound system, which in and of itself is an alternate system. The
manufacturer’s recommended practices as published in the Eljen “Design and Installation
Manual” state unequivocally that the system efficiency can be achieved only with an exact
adherence thereto and at the same time limiting several uses and discharges normally found
in a high-end residential development. Further, that the recommended layout for the use of
the In-Drain units as well as the operational limitations are predicated on a range of inter-
related insitu conditions which must be met in order for the In-Drains, once installed, to
remain within their 10 year warranty. Although the manufacturer rates the In-Drain unit
suitable for use in natural-undisturbed soil with anywhere from 1 to 60 second “perc rate”,
the use of these units is self-defeating if the natural soils have a relatively high perc rate; i.e.,
more area is required where it is already understood that the available area is the sole
limiting factor precluding the use of a conventional system.
The application herein is based on a soil scientist’s certification that the soil
percolation rate on this “tiny site” to be 10 minutes 35 seconds per inch on December 6,
2004. In addition, his observations included the presence of 6” of top soil within a 46” layer
of otherwise loamy sand; that soil mottling (high seasonal groundwater) started at a depth of
23” below the surface; that between a depth of from 46 and 51 inches there exists a sandy
clay loam; that the water table stood at 38” below the surface and the maximum depth to
bedrock was measured at 51” from the surface.
An analysis of the insitu soil characteristics and site dimensional constraints should
have precluded the detail design of an elevated Eljen In-Drain System for this site. The
Eljen Corporation requires a minimum of 24 inches of natural soil above the high seasonal
ground water level. Standard practice is to remove vegetation and top soil before the
application of fill materials. This leaves only 17” of natural soil (23”–6”=17”), or a 30 %
shortfall. From the outset there is insufficient usable natural soils above the high seasonal
ground water level to allow any consideration of the Eljen In-Drain solution.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 28
Soils with a 10 minute 35 second percolation rate and accordingly classified as
“loamy sand” are on the edge of being classified as “sandy clay loam”. The latter
classification would require the use of a more conservative application rate (0.8 rather than
0.9 GPD/sq. ft.) and consequently a greater number of In-Drain units leading to more
infiltration area (~10%) of In-Drain units. Filtration area is already understood to be in short
supply! A sieve analysis should have been performed to determine the percentage of fines
passing a #200 sieve before the final determination as to the appropriate wastewater
application rate for these marginal soils was selected. It should be noted that the range
between the high and low seasonal ground water is only 15” (38”-23”=15) whereas the zone
of permanent saturation is 13” (51”-38”=13”) above bedrock.
The area and depth of the excavations necessary for the installation of the septic tank
and pump chamber units will undoubtedly cause some disturbance to the rather shallow
natural soils intended to receive the septic tank effluent after treatment in the biomat layer.
Where the depth of the excavation exceeds 51”, it appears that the removal of a least 3 ft. of
bed rock, a natural resource, will be necessary. Any disturbance requiring new material or
resulting from consolidation of the natural soils will alter the absorption characteristics
(allowable application rate) for which the system has been designed. Excavated materials
should be removed from the site and replaced with washed sand conforming to the NYState
DOT Concrete Sand Specification 703-07 as is recommended. Sand conforming to the
Spec 703-07 becomes readily saturated below elevation 38” below ground level resulting in
positive buoyancy forces on any empty tanks. These uplift forces can only be overcome
with non-corroding tie-down straps.
The design details for this wastewater treatment system call for the use of a retaining
wall varying in height from 1 to 3 feet. This retaining wall is shown as surrounding the
septic tank, pump tank and In-Drain unit bed and it appears to serve to reduce the magnitude
of side yard setback variance being requested. Design details for the retaining wall should
be submitted with this application since its stability will be adversely influenced by any frost
build-up likely to occur in the shallow depth of saturated soils inside and under the now
“foundationless” designed wall. An unintended consequence of this “ring-wall” is to reduce
the surface area available for evapotransporation, a phenomenon which evidences itself in
the “grass growing green over the septic system”. Without the aid of evapotransporation,
this system is doomed to fail. This raises the question as to the advisability of permitting
other than seasonal use for this development.
It might be more environmentally sound to measure the In-Drain system field
setback from Lake George using what was once the location of natural shoreline. Materials
used for fill along the shoreline, especially “larger boulders”, have a miniscule tertiary
wastewater treatment capability. The location of the “tie-line” shown is probably closer to
the original shoreline and might be a better place from which to measure the lakeside
setback.
Basic to the Eljen Corporation’s recommended practices is the use of the 110
GPD/bedroom criteria “depending on type of appliances”. The 110 GPD/bedroom is based
on 2 persons/bedroom. This factor may be realistic for steady long term use of a residence
but not a residential use where several persons (extended family members) are likely to
“bunk-in” during the peak season. The 110 GPD/bedroom is also dependent on “the type of
water fixtures used”. The use of a garbage grinder is expressly prohibited and appliances
which tend to general excessive oil, grease and chemicals must be excluded. By necessary
implication wouldn’t effluent loading from dishwaters, washing machines, air conditioners
and water softener backwash be considered excessive grease and chemical generators?
Ordinary and exotic personal hygienic bathing and washing units are also grease and
chemical generators. Are these to be prohibited?
Regardless as to how the controversial poorly defined term “bedroom” is someday
resolved and even if the daily flow rate for this application is a function of only 2 bedrooms,
there does not appear to be any practical method to adhere to the manufacturer’s
recommended design practices and use limitations for this conversion at this site. As stated
earlier, and unless some means of supervised sewage effluent pretreatment, such as aeration
and/or an effluent filter including system monitoring is incorporated in the design,
construction and operation of this on-site system, the proposal remains incompatible with
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 29
the intended up-grade being proposed. Accordingly, the Board’s denial of this application is
encouraged.
Thank you.
Yours truly,
John Salvador, Jr.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
8:20 P.M.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON SEWAGE DISPOSAL
VARIANCE APPLICATION OF ROBERT AND VICTORIA GLANDON
BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.: 5, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board serves as the Town’s Local Board of Health and
is authorized by Town Code Chapter 136 to issue variances from the Town’s On-Site Sewage
Disposal Ordinance, and
WHEREAS, Robert and Victoria Glandon have applied to the Local Board of Health for
variances from provisions of Chapter 136 to install:
1. Pump tank one foot (1’) from the property line and dwelling in lieu of the required
ten feet (10’) setback;
2. Force main two feet (2’) from the property line and dwelling in lieu of the required
ten feet (10’) setback;
3. Septic Tank two feet (2’) from the property line in lieu of the required ten feet (10’)
setback; and
4. Absorption field four feet (4’) from the property line in lieu of the required ten feet
(10’) setback;
5. Absorption field fifteen feet (15’) from the dwelling in lieu of the required twenty
feet (20’) setback;
on property located at 63 Knox Road, Queensbury,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town of Queensbury Local Board of Health will hold a public
th
hearing on February 28, 2005 at 7:00 p.m. at the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road,
Queensbury, to consider Robert and Victoria Glandon’s sewage disposal variance application
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 30
concerning property located at 63 Knox Road, Queensbury (Tax Map No.: 239.7-1-13) and at that
time all interested persons will be heard, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Local Board of Health authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town
Clerk to publish the Notice of Public Hearing presented at this meeting and send a copy of the
Notice to neighbors located within 500 feet of Mr. and Mrs. Glandon’s property as required by law.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
DISCUSSION BEFORE VOTE:
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Dennis, is this currently a four bedroom?
MR. DENNIS MACELROY, Agent for Applicant-Correct, it’s three bedrooms in the house and
that cabin is used as a sleeping cabin so that’s why I used a four bedroom design. If you see on the
plan, the main house is
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Well, I don’t look at them very hard until
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SUPERVISOR STEC-So February 28 at 7 o’clock in this room, any other discussion.
MR. MACELROY-You have in front of you perhaps sheet one of the design and a revised page one
of the application which just adds another variance issue which is a setback to the dwelling from the
absorption field which wasn’t picked up.
COUNCILMAN BOOR-Is that this sheet?
SUPERVISOR STEC-It says revised right at the top right hand corner.
MR. MACELROY-It simply adds a dimension of fifteen feet from the absorption field to the
dwelling on the plan.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Okay, we do have that. That is part of the resolution, Bob and Caroline?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-You’re increasing, you’re changing the setback, instead of twenty
feet you want fifteen feet from the dwelling?
MR. MACELROY-Correct.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-That is not in the resolution, I just got this at the meeting tonight. I
think we have to add a number 5 in the WHEREAS and that would read, dwelling setback from
twenty feet that’s required to fifteen feet.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Alright, is that fine with Councilman Turner as amended?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Yes.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Councilman Brewer as amended?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 31
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yes.
(vote taken)
RESOLUTION TO ADJOURN BOARD OF HEALTH
BOARD OF HEALTH RESOLUTION NO.: 6, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Board of Health hereby adjourns and enters Regular
Session of the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
REGULAR SESSION
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc., North Queensbury Rescue Squad, Inc., and West Glens Falls
Emergency Squad, Inc.’s Emergency Ambulance Service Agreements for Year 2005
Notice Shown
8:26 P.M.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Okay, we have three public hearings tonight, they’re all very similar except
for perhaps the budgetary numbers. They were set a couple of weeks ago and as Caroline
mentioned, it was a public hearing for Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, a public hearing for North
Queensbury Rescue Squad and a public hearing for West Glens Falls Emergency Squad’s 2005
contract agreements. Just for completeness, Bay Ridge and North have agreed to or indicated that
they would like a two year contract and so theirs are for two years contracts. West Glens Falls has
indicated that they would prefer one year contract and that’s fine with the Town Board so theirs is
different in the sense that it’s for just 2005 only. So, with that I will declare all three of these public
hearings open and I will solicit any comments from the public that would like to speak about any of,
or all three of these public hearings, just raise your hand and I’ll call on people as necessary. Mr.
Tucker.
MR. TUCKER, 41 Division Road-As far as I’m concerned, you left out the important information.
How much for each one?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well, we’ve got that and you’re absolutely right. They’re virtually flat. Bay
Ridge’s contract is going to be for a hundred and forty thousand dollars. North Queensbury is going
to be for eighty-two thousand, six eight-three. These two will both be increased by four percent and
then West, the one year contract is two seventeen six fifty.
COUNSEL HAFNER-Plus the eighty-five thousand for the
MS. JENNIFER SWITZER-For the daytime service.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 32
SUPERVISOR STEC-Plus, correct, plus eighty-five thousand for continuing the paid daytime
service, thank you.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Do you want the contracts too?
SUPERVISOR STEC-And I can tell you Pliney that those roughly flat like, Jennifer correct me if
I’m wrong, I think the other day and we added them all together and it came to about one and a half
percent increase over 2004. We’re pleased that the increase was minimal.
MR. TUCKER-How much is the third party billing involved in these contracts, anything?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well the third, only in a sense, the third party billing is a revenue that’s
coming into the Town into, and it’s negotiated into the Town’s Emergency Squad Revenue
Account. We did budget to receive in 2005 two hundred and fifty thousand. We are billing, all
three squads have turned in all of the paper required and they’ve turned in all the PCR’s which are
needed for billing for the billing company for December and Jennifer will be communicating with
them here shortly to get on a regular program as far as getting them on a monthly basis or whatnot.
So, we’ll be getting January’s in the near future but they’re all set with Iliant, the company that we
selected in concert with the three rescue squads almost a year ago or, no about six months ago now I
guess. So, as far as the third party billing in there, it’s been addressed in the contracts and so far so
good.
MR. TUCKER-Eventually our Town tax for emergency services should be eliminated?
COUNCILMAN BOOR-No.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Well, it’s going to go down a lot.
MR. TUCKER-No?
SUPERVISOR STEC-I think that we’ll be running an awful lot of calls before we ever have to
worry about eliminating and frankly to be brutally accurate, it’s not in the Town’s interest to
completely eliminate that tax because having a rescue squad tax in place or an emergency services
tax in place, allows us to do soft billing. That was, if there was one downside that people were
concerned about that that we understood as a Town Board, if there was one concern that I think was
out there was the idea, hey if somebody on a fixed income or somebody out in town, any taxpayer
gets hurt, they have to go to the Emergency Room, are they going to get hounded by a collections
agent and that was something that we did not want to do and we looked into that to make sure hey,
what are the rules and what can we do and what can’t we do and the solution that is our
understanding and our attorney will probably correct me if I’m misspeak, is that as long as there’s a
tax in place which when you add these up, you’re still talking about roughly a half a million dollars
right now. That’s an awful lot of revenue for us to start getting but as long as we have a tax in place
we can soft bill, i.e. send one bill and stop bugging them after that and don’t hound the individual
for payment just the insurance company which is what our intent always was and we were happy to
find out that the law does allow that.
MR. TUCKER-So, eventually
SUPERVISOR STEC-So it will be, I think this year we cut it. Jennifer, what did the EMS tax go
from? It was cut by more then half, I think it was cut by sixty percent because again we budgeted
for roughly five hundred thousand and we budgeted half of that in revenue so we’re only collecting
two hundred and fifty in taxes. So, this has been real, I mean so far as this is playing out, and we
haven’t started receiving checks yet but to this point it looks like everything that we wanted to get
out of this bill-for-service is what we’re getting, we’re getting. So, we’re very pleased with what
MR. TUCKER-So, there will be a minimum tax.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yea.
SUPERVISOR STEC-A very minimum.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It will be very minimum.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 33
MR. TUCKER-Because of the, to make the plan work.
COUNCILMAN BEWER-Right.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Correct.
COUNSEL HAFNER-And Dan, can I just speak up one thing on the billing thing. We have
contract with Iliant to do the billing. They have to do billing in the form that’s required under the
Federal Regulations that deal with Medicare and Medicaid and they’re going to follow the
regulations that they have to do with billing and that’s part of the contract that we have with them.
So, just to clarify.
MR. TUCKER-Personal experience, my grandson was in an accident, was transported by Lake
George Emergency Squad, the insurance company sent my daughter the check. Is that the way our
system is going to work?
SUPERVISOR STEC-No.
COUNCLMAN BREWER-Hopefully not.
MR. TUCKER-Or is it going to go direct?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Jennifer, if you would want to
MS. JENNIFER SWITZER, Budget Officer-That should go directly to the Town. In the case that it
does go to whoever was trans, whoever was charged, they will be required to send a check in place
of whatever they receive. So, ultimately, if there’s insurance money whether it goes to the patient or
it comes to the Town, it’s going to come to the Town ultimately.
SUPERVISOR STEC-So, it will come to the Town, that’s how our contract is structured with Iliant.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If it goes to one of the squads, somehow, there’s an arrangement made
that it will come to the Town.
MR. TUCKER-But you know, she called me on the phone after she got a check for three hundred
sixteen bucks and
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Said you want to go out to dinner?
MR. TUCKER-Just kind of puts a kink into the thing and I said, well call your insurance company.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Right, that’s not supposed to happen.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-That’s not how it’s supposed to be set up, that’s part of what Iliant’s
supposed to do, the checks are supposed to come to the Town.
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-To the Town.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-That’s how the bills will go out.
MR. TUCKER-And the Town will handle all of it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Right.
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-And there are ways of knowing whether the payment goes directly
to the Town or to the patient. In the case that it does go to the patient, Iliant will contact them to get
the money from the patient.
MR. TUCKER-Yea, well this money was to go to Lake George Emergency Squad but they sent it
to her and she didn’t know what to do with it.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 34
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-Right, right. In that case, they’ll be getting a letter, if that happens
in the Town of Queensbury they’ll be getting a letter instructing them what to do with that money.
MR. TUCKER-Okay, thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you, Mr. Tucker. Anyone else like to comment on any or all three of
these Rescue Squad Service Agreements this evening? Mr. Barody, Supervisor Barody.
MR. MIKE BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-I wasn’t going to say anything but we’re getting to,
talking about billing back there and since I owned and operated the billing company, I just wanted
to clarify a couple of questions that were coming up. As per our contracts, are they charging us a
flat billing fee or are they charging us per bill?
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-They’re charging us a percentage.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-A percentage.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Of collections.
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-Of collections, except for the Medicare Medicaid and that is a flat
billing fee according to the Federal Law.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Are they charging us on the Medicare Medicaid?
SUPERVISOR STEC-A flat rate.
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-A flat rate.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Flat rate, okay. What kind of reports are you getting back
from them to monitor, are you going to get like a, they like to call it EO&B, an Explanation of
Benefits, you can actually see everyone that was billed and what was collected upon?
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-We’ll get copies of EOB’s. We’ll be getting copies of Aged
Receivable Reports. We’ll be getting copies of reports that tell us, if for some reason they can’t bill
using the information on the PCR, why they can’t, the percentage of those that can’t be forwarded
onto the insurance company and why and what in the information in the fields are missing so that
that information can’t get to the emergency squads so they can do a better job. I probably, there’s
probably forty reports that we have available to us to get the information from Iliant.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-I generally, I guess with, we’re having a little conversation
back there and I was saying I generally bag going with Alliance to start out with until we see what
our experience is.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-We have a renewable contract, it’s not any
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Is it on one year terms?
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-It’s on a one year, yes, it’s on a one year term with the Town Board
has the ability.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Mike, Iliant, not Alliance. I think you said Alliance.
COUNCILMAN TURNER-He did.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Iliant.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Oh, that’s what I thought I heard.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-No, I mispronounced it, they told me.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-That’s what our attorney said so.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 35
SUPERVISOR STEC-Our attorney is inaccurate this evening on that point, Iliant.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-As a matter of fact, we met this particular person a year ago in New
York.
SUPERVISOR STEC-This month.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Yea, I know.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Tim and I were at Association Of Towns in the Convention Hall in the Hotel
they had the
COUNCILMAN BREWER-When we started talking about this a year ago
SUPERVISOR STEC-Jennifer was there, the three of us actually had a good conversation with the
gentleman and the sales rep but of course we put it out to bid, we involved all the rescue squads and
we did happen to end up hiring
COUNCILMAN BREWER-There was a committee between, there was two Town Board Members,
Jennifer and members from each one of the squads
SUPERVISOR STEC-Roger and Tim.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-That selected this particular company.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-It’s just important to follow up and look the reports over real
well and if you need any help with that, I know exactly what to look for.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-If we need any help, we know somebody we can call.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-So feel free to trip me up in the hall way, okay.
MS. SWITZER, Budget Officer-Thank you.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you, Mr. Barody. Anyone else like to comment on the Rescue Squad
Contracts Public Hearings, three of them? Any or all of them?
MR. PETER BROTHERS-I just wanted to mention that, you know we’re all very dependent on
rescue squads, fire houses for public safety and I think it’s fair to say that we certainly could not do
without any of their services. I think with the different fire houses, fire companies in the area
especially with the recent budget woes of South Queensbury, you know this is costly for all of us,
we all pay in one way or another directly or what have you. I would strongly recommend that you
consider advocating for consolidation of services, not only within the Town of Queensbury but
maybe within Warren County as a whole. Now, I’m not saying that you just have one truck for the
entire county, Warren, I’m not saying that but at the same time more efficient use of services,
equipment and less costly as long as you’re not endangering public safety.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Thank you, Mr. Brothers. Anyone else like to speak this evening on the
public hearings for the rescue squad contracts? Okay, seeing none, I will close the first one, the
public hearing on Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc.’s Emergency Ambulance Service Agreement for
2005 and entertain a motion.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
8:40 P.M.
RESOLUTION APPROVING EMERGENCY AMBULANCE SERVICE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND BAY RIDGE
RESCUE SQUAD, INC. FOR 2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 86, 2005
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 36
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law 184, the Queensbury Town Board may
§
contract with ambulance services certified or registered in accordance with Public Health Law
Article 30 for general emergency ambulance service within the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town and its three (3) emergency squads, Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc.,
North Queensbury Rescue Squads, Inc., and West Glens Falls Emergency Squad, Inc., negotiated
terms for new one or two year Agreements (depending on the particular Emergency Squad) for
general emergency ambulance services, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law §184 and General Municipal Law §209(b), the
Town Board duly conducted a public hearing and heard all interested persons concerning the
proposed Agreements for emergency ambulance service, and
WHEREAS, copies of the proposed Agreements have been presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the emergency ambulance
service Agreements between the Town and the Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc., substantially in the
form presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the Agreement and directs the Town Supervisor, Budget Officer and Town Counsel to take
such other and further action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
SUPERVISOR STEC-I will close the public hearing on North Queensbury Rescue Squad Inc.’s
Emergency Ambulance Service Agreement for 2005.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 37
8:41 P.M.
RESOLUTION APPROVING EMERGENCY AMBULANCE SERVICE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND NORTH
QUEENSBURY RESCUE SQUAD, INC. FOR 2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 87, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law 184, the Queensbury Town Board may
§
contract with ambulance services certified or registered in accordance with Public Health Law
Article 30 for general emergency ambulance service within the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town and its three (3) emergency squads, Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc.,
North Queensbury Rescue Squads, Inc., and West Glens Falls Emergency Squad, Inc., negotiated
terms for new one or two year Agreements (depending on the particular Emergency Squad) for
general emergency ambulance services, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law §184 and General Municipal Law §209(b), the
Town Board duly conducted a public hearing and heard all interested persons concerning the
proposed Agreements for emergency ambulance service, and
WHEREAS, copies of the proposed Agreements have been presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the emergency ambulance
service Agreements between the Town and the North Queensbury Rescue Squad, Inc., substantially
in the form presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the Agreement and directs the Town Supervisor, Budget Officer and Town Counsel to take
such other and further action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 38
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
SUPERVISOR STEC-Now I will close 2.3, the Public Hearing on West Glens Falls Emergency
Squad, Inc.’s Emergency Ambulance Service Agreement for Year 2005 and again, this is a one year
contract and the public hearing is closed.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
8:41 P.M.
RESOLUTION APPROVING EMERGENCY AMBULANCE SERVICE
AGREEMENT BETWEEN TOWN OF QUEENSBURY AND WEST GLENS
FALLS EMERGENCY SQUAD, INC. FOR 2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 88, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law 184, the Queensbury Town Board may
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contract with ambulance services certified or registered in accordance with Public Health Law
Article 30 for general emergency ambulance service within the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town and its three (3) emergency squads, Bay Ridge Rescue Squad, Inc.,
North Queensbury Rescue Squads, Inc., and West Glens Falls Emergency Squad, Inc., negotiated
terms for new one or two year Agreements (depending on the particular Emergency Squad) for
general emergency ambulance services, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law §184 and General Municipal Law §209(b), the
Town Board duly conducted a public hearing and heard all interested persons concerning the
proposed Agreements for emergency ambulance service, and
WHEREAS, copies of the proposed Agreements have been presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the emergency ambulance
service Agreements between the Town and the West Glens Falls Emergency Squad, Inc.,
substantially in the form presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 39
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the Agreement and directs the Town Supervisor, Budget Officer and Town Counsel to take
such other and further action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
SUPERVISOR STEC-I’m happy that the rescue squad contracts are adopted. I see Catherine Webb
is present this evening. Good evening Catherine. I want to give you and your squad my personal
assurances and I want to extent my thanks to all three rescue squads, the leadership that Jennifer and
I dealt with very closely in the last six, eight weeks. But I know that West has some specific
projects in mind and I want you to know and I know that they’ve been going on for a very long time
and that the holdups have not been the rescue squad’s end, they’ve been more on the Town and
County and the whole Main Street Project. I do think that we’ve got a game plan in place now and I
can assure you that one of the big things we were trying to get done, is Fire and EMS Contracts
done so that my attorney, our attorney can jump on a couple of other hot issues, one of the top two
of which is the whole business as to the connector road and what’s going there and I know that
some meetings have taken place between your architect and at some point in the near future after
that, the Town Board will sit down again with West. We haven’t forgotten you and I know that this
is one of the things that there was probable some gnashing of teeth down there at the squad and
we’re aware of that, but I wanted you in front of these witnesses, that witness and the camera that
we’re going to work on this and we’re going to get this done this year. We’re appreciative that you
weren’t here throwing stones at us. We’re glad that we got these contracts done. There’s some
language in your contract that refers to this however we know that we need to actually put the
rubber to the road now and get it done and we will be doing that. I also wanted to thank, again
Jennifer and Bob, they put a lot of time into the Fire and EMS Contracts this year and I harassed
them on a daily basis, sometimes more frequently and so we’re happy that we’re through this one
and we’ll be setting the public hearing shortly tonight for our next Regular Town Board Meeting for
the fire companies. But I can tell you that for the most part the fire company discussions went very
well as well, they were lengthy but they were productive I think.
CORRESPONDENCE
Deputy Town Clerk Barber noted that the January 2005 Monthly Report for Solid Waste
Management has been received and put on file.
INTRODUCTION OF RESOLUTIONS FROM THE FLOOR – NONE
SUPERVISOR STEC thanked TV-8 and Glens Falls National Bank for televising the Regular
Town Board Meetings… Remind the public of the Town’s website, www.queensbury.net., a lot of
information, all the meeting minutes going back a year for all four Boards including the Planning
Ordinance Review Committee, Planning Board, Zoning Board and the Town Board, the agendas
and meeting minutes are available on line as is a lot of other information about your Town including
newsletters and what not. And on the newsletter note, the newsletter went to the printer and in the
next ten days to two weeks the Town will be getting their Winter 2005 Newsletter.
OPEN FORUM
8:45 P.M.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 40
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large spoke to the Town Board regarding the following issues at
the county level… Organizational Meeting held in January and received Committee Assignments:
Promoted to Vice Chairman of the Health Services Committee and Vice Chairman of the
Technology Committee. Committee Member for Social Services, Airport, Personnel, Fire &
Protection, Youth Programs, West Mountain Nursing Home and the Assistant Living Facility.
Couple of special assignments given by Chairman of the Board: Executive Host Committee for
Tourism and Conference Development and Warren County’s Rep on the Board of Directors for the
new Business Incubator that’s being developed in downtown Glens Falls…. Capital Projects
proposed for the year and will report as the year goes on… Considering adding a Pod to the Jail,
starting the hanger construction at the airport, the Corinth Road West Mountain Bike Path, Exit 18,
new Health and Human Services Building to replace the old and consideration of a Convention
Center… Will keep the Board up to date on those….Questioned whether Resolution 7.18 is
referring to the property the Board is considering to purchase?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yes. There’s been some preliminary comment in the paper regarding this
property. The history of the property is contiguous to this property right here and long before we
took office except maybe Ted, the Town has been desirous of acquiring that property for other town
campus expansion.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Questioned whether the vote is to purchase the property?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yes.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-Questioned the number of acres involved?
COUNCILMAN TURNER-Forty-nine acres.
SUPERVISOR STEC-A little over forty-nine acres.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-For two hundred and thirty thousand?
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Assessed for two-fifty.
MR. BARODY, Supervisor-At-Large-I haven’t looked into it and I assume you have, if the price is
appropriate, I would be in favor of the Board approving the purchase of that property for
development. I’m probably not in favor of putting the Rec Center there as has been discussed but I
think there’s other opportunities for the Town to use that property.
SUPERVISOR STEC-To answer one your concerns that you raised, before the Town buys or sells
any property, we get a fair market appraisal, at least one and it’s always been our practice and in this
case we did do that so we do have an appraisal that supports the purchase price.
MS. JOAN BOVEE, 1 Lakeview Drive-Referred to Resolution 7.18 regarding the property
purchase and would like the Town to consider creating a dog park in Queensbury and this would be
a good place to put a dog park.
SUPERVISOR STEC-I do know that they’re popular in other towns and this has been mentioned to
the Rec Department before and perhaps we need to pursue it a little more formally, because I agree
with you, I think it’s a good idea to have a place to walk dogs and run them… I will follow that up
with the Recreation Department and the Recreation Commission. The Town does have a few
hundred acres throughout the Town of parkland and there are other locations in Town that might be
appropriate.
MS. BETTY MONAHAN, Sunnyside-Bravo to the Town Board for their decision in purchasing the
adjacent property… It makes sense and would like to encourage the Town Board to consider
purchasing the land across the road, much to offer and you need to start doing a vision. We’ve often
talked we need a Town Center, and with these two pieces of property and that one, you could do a
beautiful thing towards a Town Center… The paper talked about a referendum in the Spring and
wondered why.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We’re going to have a meeting ourselves here to talk about the timeline but I
don’t think that’s realistic.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 41
MS. MONAHAN-I don’t see the necessity of spending an extra twelve thousand dollars for a
referendum and this isn’t a particularly good time to go to bid… The thing I did see in the paper
that disturbs me is the City of Glens Falls and the Town of Queensbury again and that the City has
filed an intent to suit over that rezoning.
SUPERVISOR STEC-They have not filed anything that I’m aware of.
MS. MONAHAN-That’s the way the paper had it and I would encourage you to sit down and talk
to the City, I think they’ve got a lot of merit that that was not done correctly and I think that you’re
going to have a hard time justifying it.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We would respectively disagree with you.
MS. MONAHAN-I think that when you look into that there were some procedures that were not
followed.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Betty, we did look into it.
MS. MONAHAN-I also have a problem with the attorney advising you to go to court that is also
going to make more money out of the fact that when you do go to court cause they get paid extra for
it.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We’re hoping not to go to court at all Betty, what’s done is done.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-A short rebuttal, the Town’s Attorney made no recommendation to
go to court over that matter and it’s not needed, we stand ready to defend if it happens.
MR. TUCKER, 41 Division Road-Referred to Resolution 7.16, Appointing Charles Dyer, Building
and Code Enforcement Officer and noted that he thought the Town Board just made that
appointment.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We did and that gentleman did not take the job so this is the next candidate
in line.
MR. TUCKER-Referred to the land deal and questioned whether it’s all together, signed and
everything?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Oh no, we can’t, it will be a few weeks before it gets signed.
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-No Pliney, you can’t sign a contract until it’s authorized.
MR. TUCKER-Questioned whether the Town will get a warrantee deed on this?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-That will be in the contract and we will make sure there’s good title.
MR. TUCKER-The forty-nine acres all usable?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Almost fifty and there’s wetlands on it.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-It’s all usable but depends on what you use it for.
MR. TUCKER-I mean for building, how much for building?
MR. STEVE LOVERING, Assistant Director of Parks & Recreation-There’s a little more then
eighteen acres out of the front piece that’s usable. We’ve gotten mapping from DEC so we know
where the wetlands are, there’s nothing in the upper portion that’s been marked or flagged as DEC
wetland but some of that is wet and probably would not be usable. But that front piece, close to
thirty acres and the back piece or the north side is about twenty acres and of that first part, there’s a
little more then eighteen acres that we’ve estimated as buildable or usable.
MR. TUCKER-If your project goes through, how much are you going to need?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 42
SUPERVISOR STEC-If the Community Center goes on this property which it may or may not.
MR. TUCKER-How many acres would you need if you were fortunate or unfortunate to have it go
over there?
SUPERVISOR STEC-The number that has always been bantered about is in the neighborhood of
ten acres, plus or minus, depending on the site.
MR. BROTHERS-Referred to the land purchase for the proposed Rec Center.
SUPERVISOR STEC-It’s the land purchase for campus expansion which may or may not include a
community center. I want to make sure that we’re perfectly clear what we’re talking about.
MR. BROTHERS-I would be in favor of the land purchase for open space initiatives, preserving
space in the town around here but I would have a hard time justifying the expense for any expansion
of government, if I understand it correctly. I don’t think it’s really necessary, I think we need to
control the spending, I don’t think we need to spend anymore on frivolous items. I would also like
to reiterate being opposed to the Rec Center that is being talked about and if the land was going to
be used for the Rec Center, I certainly would be opposed to purchasing the land for that purpose. I
do not think that the Rec Center is needed because I feel that we have plenty of recreation facilities,
the YMCA, the Adirondack Nautilus, Flex Appeal, whatever, just don’t feel that it is necessary. I
think you should also allow all property owners within the Town of Queensbury to vote on this and
I know that there has been talk of this being put up for referendum and that’s fine but one thing you
have to consider is that there’s a lot of second home owners in the Town who are not adequately
informed of this….
MS. KAREN ANGLESON, 1 Greenwood Lane-Referred to the Planning Board Alternate and
questioned whether there was a second position open and whether it had been filled?
SUPERVISOR STEC-Yes and no, yes there is one, no it has not yet been filled.
MS. ANGLESON-Thank you. So, the applications are still open for that?
SUPERVISOR STEC-The Board hasn’t discussed it in a while so I would hesitate to answer
whether or not we are or not taking applications.
MS. ANGELSON-I’d like to commend Mrs. Monahan for encouraging you to purchase the land
across the street, I think that would be a wonderful idea, a very good use of the tax refund that you
gave us this year.
MR. AUER-Referred to Resolution 7.18, the purchase of property and think it’s an excellent piece
of property. I don’t think anybody could argue that certainly putting it into the inventory even if
you don’t have a specific plan for it right now is a good idea. One thing that you really need to do
as elected officials is think about where you might site little league fields because some day some
where that’s going to have to happen…
OPEN FORUM CLOSED
9:08 P.M.
TOWN BOARD DISCUSSIONS
COUNCILMAN TURNER – None
COUNCILMAN BOOR – None
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Referred to photo of a sign that Glens Falls put up and it’s for the
Glens Falls High School Indians New York State PHSAA Ice Hockey State Championship and then
they go onto list their other athletic championships, a nice sign introducing the city to the
accomplishments of the school. I’ve got one from Fort Ann and it lists on a nice brown and yellow
sign the accomplishments of the school, Fort Ann’s Athletic accomplishments and introducing the
town. Here’s one of Shenendehowa with their town and of the accomplishments of their school. I
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 43
was wondering maybe we ought to do that. The signs are only about a hundred and fifty bucks and
Queensbury certainly has it’s share of accomplishments from wrestling to cross county, track,
football. So, I think we ought to brag about the school’s accomplishments as the people enter town
and I would like to work with Scott Stewart, get a list of the accomplishments, if the Town Board is
willing to help out and we’ll find a place for it that introduces people to our Town and our school’s
accomplishments...
SUPERVISOR STEC-Absolutely agree.
COUNCLIMAN STROUGH-Referred to letter from Marilyn to us questioning whether there’s any
interest, there are State funds available for water quality projects and I can think of several places
along Halfway Brook especially over near Hovey Pond and in back of O’Toole’s Plaza where the
stormwater still directly is being drained into that.
MS. MARILYN RYBA, Senior Planner-I will say that the Warren County Soil and Water
Conservation District has some ideas… I’m sure there will be additional discussion there.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH-Okay, well I thought it was a good idea and thought to second that…
Referred to an idea from a group of towns from Suffolk County that are using what is called a Real
Estate Transfer Tax to expand their open space program and it might be something we want to look
into.
SUPERVISOR STEC-We forwarded that to Marilyn, we should definitely look into it and find out
if it’s something that’s feasible for the Town, if it’s something that we can do because I think it
sounds like a good idea and worth pursuing… Announced that we’ll be passing a resolution tonight
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regarding the Free Tire Disposal Day to be held on Saturday, April 23 at both the Luzerne Road
and Ridge Road Transfer Stations for Queensbury and Glens Falls residents, we can allow up to
four tires per household.
COUNCILMAN STROUGH gave update regarding joint meeting held among different adjoining
communities regarding the cable situation, the rates and the possibilities that the town may be able
to pursue…
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Referred to Resolution 7.7, it’s dear to my heart because it helped
Ward 4 two years ago when we received a grant and I want to thank Shelter Planning and Marilyn
and her staff, it’s going to help a lot of our constituents in Ward 4 and 2 this year. There are some
twenty people or twenty families that will have a positive affect on and I’m glad to say that we keep
after these kind of grants to help the people in our town that certainly do need the help and I want to
thank you for that Marilyn.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Spoke regarding the cable meeting, the issues at the county level and some
steps that they’re proposing, felt it was a very good turnout and productive meeting… I had the
privilege of being invited down to the Albany area, a National Guard location where Governor
Pataki presented Purple Hearts to three wounded Guardsmen and two of them are from our area.
Sgt. Ken Comstock is from Queensbury and Sgt. Robert Hemsing whose from Glens Falls and they
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were with the 108 and the third gentleman was a Sgt. From Albany and he was with the 105
Military Police. It was wonderful to see those gentlemen be awarded the Purple Heart, it’s the
Nation’s oldest military honor and the stories and the circumstances of which they earned that
award certainly got everyone’s attention. It was a very well attended event today and it was my
pleasure and privilege to be there and congratulate them on behalf of the Town of Queensbury and
Warren County for their service and we’re very happy that they were safely returned home, some of
their injuries were very serious.
RESOLUTIONS
9:20 P.M.
RESOLUTION SETTING PUBLIC HEARING ON FIRE PROTECTION
SERVICE AGREEMENTS
RESOLUTION NO.: 89, 2005
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 44
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHEREAS, fire protection services are provided to the Town of Queensbury by the Bay
Ridge Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., North Queensbury Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., Queensbury Central
Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., and West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., (Fire Companies) in
accordance with agreements between each Fire Company and the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town and Fire Companies have negotiated terms for new one (1) year
Agreements for fire protection services, and
WHEREAS, in accordance with Town Law §184 and General Municipal Law §209(b), the
Town Board wishes to set a public hearing concerning the proposed agreements for fire protection
services,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall conduct four (4) separate public
hearings concerning each of the proposed new fire protection services agreements between the
Town and each of the four (4) Fire Companies: Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., North
Queensbury Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., and West Glens
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Falls Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., on February 28, 2005 at 7:00 p.m., and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town
Clerk to publish a Notice of Public Hearing in the Post-Star Newspaper once at least ten (10) days
prior to the Public Hearing.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
BEFORE VOTE:
Supervisor Stec-These were worked in parallel with the EMS Contracts that we approved tonight, a
lot of similar language in both of them and thank Bob Hafner and Jennifer Switzer for all of their
work and the Town Board for all their work on getting to these final numbers. These will be four
contracts that we’ve put together. One for Bay Ridge, one for North Queensbury, one for
Queensbury Central and one for West Glens Falls Fire and the public hearing will be for three
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weeks from tonight on February 28 and the fifth company we have not forgotten, South
Queensbury. And we’ve told all the other fire companies the situation, South Queensbury’s new
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 45
leadership is aware and supportive of what we’re doing as is the Town Board. South Queensbury,
we’ve agreed with them to go on a month by month basis for the time being while the new
leadership gets their feet under them. They have a new slate of officers down there that is getting
organized and getting their finances in better order, they’ve been working very closely with Jennifer
Switzer and I for one appreciative of that and I’m sure Jennifer is as well. So, their contract will not
be part of this round of contract renewals that we will be doing here at the end of the month…
(vote taken)
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADIRONDACK RUNNERS TO CONDUCT
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19 ANNUAL SHAMROCK SHUFFLE ROAD RACE
RESOLUTION NO. : 90, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHEREAS, the Adirondack Runners Club has requested authorization from the
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Queensbury Town Board to conduct its 19 Annual Shamrock Shuffle Road Race as follows:
SPONSOR : The Adirondack Runners Club
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EVENT : 19 Annual Shamrock Shuffle Road Race
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DATE : Sunday, March 20 2005
PLACE : Beginning and ending at Glens Falls
High School and going through the Town of Queensbury
(Letter and map showing course is attached);
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby acknowledges receipt of proof of
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insurance from the Adirondack Runners Club to conduct the 19 Annual Shamrock Shuffle Road
Race partially within the Town of Queensbury, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves this event subject to approval by the
Town Highway Superintendent, which may be revoked due to concern for road conditions at any
time up to the date and time of the event.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 46
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION TO
AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORPORATION (AHC) FOR HOUSING
REHABILITATION GRANT FUNDS
RESOLUTION NO.: 91, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the New York State Affordable Housing Corporation (AHC) administers a
program which provides grant assistance to communities to undertake housing rehabilitation
activities, and
WHEREAS, AHC has established a submission date of February 15, 2005 for accepting
applications under the Program, and
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has reviewed its housing needs and has developed
a program to meet those needs, and
,
WHEREASthe proper local procedure for submission of an application includes a
resolution by the governing body of the applicant which authorizes the submission of the
application and related actions,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board herby authorizes and directs the Town
Supervisor to submit the application to the Affordable Housing Corporation (AHC) and to act in
connection with the submission of the application, including execution of all required
certifications and forms and to provide such additional information as may be required, and
BE IT FURTHER,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 47
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Executive Director of Community Development and/or Senior Planner to sign any documentation
and take any other action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
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Duly adopted this 7day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION DESIGNATING TARGET NEIGHBORHOODS FOR
PURPOSE OF AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING CORPORATION GRANT
APPLICATION
RESOLUTION NO.: 92, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has developed an Affordable Housing Strategy,
and
WHEREAS, the Affordable Housing Strategy document included a detailed analysis of
neighborhoods in the Town, and
,
WHEREAS that document identified Census Tract 708 and 706 Block Group 2 (known
locally as West Glens Falls and South Queensbury) as areas which contained high concentrations of
lower income, owner-occupied housing in need of significant rehabilitation assistance which cannot
be met by the private sector without governmental assistance, and
WHEREAS, that document identified that Strategy 1 included in the Affordable Housing
Strategy was the “Protection and Expansion of the Stock of Affordable Housing in the Existing
Neighborhoods”, and
WHEREAS, The Town has received a HOME grant from the New York State Division of
Housing and Community Renewal targeting the rehabilitation of existing owner-occupied homes in
these Census areas, and
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 48
WHEREAS, in designating these areas as part of the HOME Application process the Town
has established that housing conditions in the area are characterized as deteriorating, substandard
and in need of basic rehabilitation, and
WHEREAS, the Town in the adopted Affordable Housing Strategy specifically identified
the New York State Affordable Housing Corporation as an important source of funds to implement
the Town’s program of owner- occupied housing rehabilitation in these targeted areas,
NOW THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED,that the Town of Queensbury reaffirms the analysis and conclusions included
in the Affordable Housing Strategy and designates that Census Tracts 708 and 706 Block Group 2
as an area, as described in 21B NYCRR Section 2161.2 of the Regulations of the Affordable Home
Ownership Development Program in which governmental assistance is necessary and appropriate to
make necessary investment in homes in the area.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION SCHEDULING PUBLIC HEARINGS CONCERNING
APPLICATION FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
FUNDS THROUGH NEW YORK STATE SMALL CITIES PROGRAM
RESOLUTION NO.: 93, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury wishes to apply for Community Development Block
Grant (CDBG) funds through the New York State Administered Small Cities Program for the
purposes of community development improvements such as housing, public facilities and/or
economic development, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to schedule the required public hearings concerning
the application and use of CDBG funds,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 49
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board shall meet and hold two public hearings at
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the Queensbury Activities Center, 742 Bay Road, Queensbury at 7:00 p.m. on March 7, 2005 and
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March 21, 2005, to hear all interested persons and take any necessary action provided by law
concerning its application for Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) funds through the
New York State Administered Small Cities Program, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Queensbury Town
Clerk to publish and post Notices of Public Hearings a minimum of ten (10) days prior to each
scheduled public hearing, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Executive Director of Community Development and/or Senior Planner to sign any documentation
and take any other action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough
NOES : None
ABSENT : None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF SHELTER
PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT, INC. TO WRITE 2005 GRANT
APPLICATION TO NEW YORK STATE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE FOR
SMALL CITIES COMMUNITY BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM
RESOLUTION NO.: 94, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, Resolution No. 529, 2003 authorized engaging Shelter Planning &
Development, Inc. to provide assistance with three applications for affordable housing assistance
funds from the NYS Small Cities Program, the Division of Housing and Community Renewal, and
Affordable Housing Corporation, and
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 50
WHEREAS, Resolution No. 178, 2004 authorized the Town to submit an application to the
Governor’s Office for Small Cities for Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) funds for
use in housing rehabilitation in 2004, which was not funded, and
WHEREAS, the demand for housing rehabilitation services in the proposed target area of
West Glens Falls continues to exceed funds available, and
WHEREAS, in a meeting with the Governor’s Office for Small Cities (GOSC) staff and
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Shelter Planning in Albany on January 14, 2005, the Town was encouraged to revise the
application and resubmit, and
WHEREAS, a resubmission of an application for Community Development Block grant
funding is a new application, and beyond the original scope of the 2003 services agreement with
Shelter Planning and Development. Inc., and
WHEREAS, Shelter Planning & Development Inc. has submitted a proposal dated January
28, 2005 to work with the Community Development Department to prepare a new application to the
Governor’s Office for Small Cities for housing rehabilitation fund by the April 4, 2005 deadline,
and to implement said grant program if funded for a fee of three thousand five hundred dollars
($3,500),
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby accepts and authorizes engagement
of Shelter Planning & Development, Inc. in accordance with Shelter Planning’s proposal of January
28, 2005 presented at this meeting and authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to execute an
agreement with Shelter Planning & Development, in form acceptable to Town Counsel, for CDBG
grant preparation and implementation services consistent with the language and details of such
proposal, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED that a payment of three thousand five hundred dollars ($3,500) shall be paid
from Account No.: 001-8020-4720 for these services, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
sign any documentation and agreements in form approved by Town Counsel and authorizes and
directs the Town Supervisor, Executive Director of Community Development, Senior Planner
and/or Budget Officer to take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the
terms of this Resolution.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 51
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF SHELTER
PLANNING & DEVELOPMENT, INC. TO PROVIDE ADMINISTRATIVE
AND PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION ASSISTANCE IN CONNECTION
WITH $400,000 IN GRANT FUNDS RECEIVED FROM NEW YORK
DIVISION OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY RENEWAL
RESOLUTION NO.: 95, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 105,2004 the Queensbury Town Board authorized
submission of an application to the New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal
(DHCR), and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 126,2004 the Town Board authorized payment for services
of Shelter Planning & Development, Inc., for provision of grant application assistance during 2004
and provided that if housing grant applications were approved, Shelter Planning would carry out the
program implementation and administration services, and
WHEREAS, the grant application was submitted and the Town was awarded a grant in
the amount of $400,000 from the New York State Division of Housing and Community
Renewal, such funds to be used for housing rehabilitation, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 582,2004 the Town Board established a Housing
Rehabilitation Revolving Loan Fund in conjunction with the implementation of the HOME Housing
Rehabilitation Program, and
WHEREAS, the Town now wishes to authorize the Agreement with Shelter Planning &
Development, Inc. for provision of the program implementation and administration services, and a
proposed Contract for Professional Services between the Town and Shelter Planning is presented at
this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 52
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs engagement
of Shelter Planning & Development, Inc., for provision of program implementation and
administration assistance services in connection with grant monies received by the Town of
Queensbury referenced in the preambles of this Resolution and as set forth in the Contract for
Professional Services dated August, 2004 presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the costs for Shelter Planning’s services shall not exceed the fixed fee of
$16,000 for such program implementation and administration, plus $2,000 for project-related
implementation services for each housing unit rehabilitated under the Program, as specifically
delineated in the Contract presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that payment for these expenses shall be paid from the Town’s 2004 HOME
Program Grant funding from the New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal as
set forth on the Contract Exhibit D presented at this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute the Contract between the Town and Shelter Planning substantially in the form presented at
this meeting, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes the Town Supervisor, Executive
Director of Community Development, Senior Planner and/or Budget Officer to take any other
action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT : None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING FREE TIRE DISPOSAL DAY
RESOLUTION NO.: 96, 2005
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 53
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury’s Solid Waste Facilities Operator has recommended
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that the Town Board authorize the free disposal of tires for one day on Saturday, April 23, 2005, at
the Town’s two Transfer Stations for Town of Queensbury and City of Glens Falls residents only,
and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize the free tire disposal day,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes a Free Tire Disposal Day
to provide for the free disposal of up to four (4) tires per family for Town of Queensbury and City of
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Glens Falls residents only, on Saturday, April 23, 2005 from 7:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. at the Town of
Queensbury’s two Transfer Stations, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes the Town’s Solid Waste Facilities
Operator to take such other and further action necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING FIREWORKS DISPLAY AT WEST
MOUNTAIN SKI CENTER ON FEBRUARY 18, 2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 97, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHEREAS, Alonzo Fireworks Display, Inc., on behalf of West Enterprises, has requested
permission to conduct a fireworks display as follows:
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 54
SPONSOR: West Enterprises
PLACE: West Mountain Ski Center
DATE: Friday, February 18, 2005
TIME: 10:00 P.M. (approx.)
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Clerk, in accordance with New York State Penal Law 405, to issue a fireworks permit to Alonzo
§
Fireworks Display, Inc., on behalf of West Enterprises, subject to the following conditions:
1. An application for permit be filed which sets forth:
A. The name of the body sponsoring the display and the names of the persons
actually to be in charge of the firing of the display.
B. The date and time of day at which the display is to be held.
C. The exact location planned for the display.
D. The age, experience and physical characteristics of the persons who are to do the
actual discharging of the fireworks.
E. The number and kind of fireworks to be discharged.
F. The manner and place of storage of such fireworks prior to the display.
G. A diagram of the grounds on which the display is to be held showing the point at
which the fireworks are to be discharged, the location of all buildings, highways,
and other lines of communication, the lines behind which the audience will be
restrained and the location of all nearby trees, telegraph or telephone lines or
other overhead obstructions.
2. Proof of insurance be received which demonstrates insurance coverage through an
insurance company licensed in the State of New York, and that the Town of Queensbury
is named as an additional insured and that the insurance coverage contain a hold
harmless clause which shall protect the Town of Queensbury;
3. Inspections and approval must be made by the Queensbury Fire Marshal and the Chief
of the West Glens Falls Volunteer Fire Company, Inc.,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 55
4. Clean-up of the area must be completed by 10:00 a.m., the following day, and all debris
must be cleaned up including all unexploded shells, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the permit or letter of authorization by the Town Clerk shall, in
accordance with New York State Penal Law §405, provide:
the actual point at which the fireworks are to be fired shall be at least two hundred
feet from the nearest permanent building, public highway or railroad or other means
of travel and at least fifty feet from the nearest above ground telephone or telegraph
line, tree or other overhead obstruction, that the audience at such display shall be
restrained behind lines at least one hundred and fifty feet from the point at which the
fireworks are discharged and only persons in active charge of the display shall be
allowed inside these lines, that all fireworks that fire a projectile shall be so set up
that the projectile will go into the air as nearby (nearly) as possible in a vertical
direction, unless such fireworks are to be fired from the shore of a lake or other large
body of water, when they may be directed in such manner that the falling residue
from the deflagration will fall into such lake or body of water, that any fireworks
that remain unfired after the display is concluded shall be immediately disposed of in
a way safe for the particular type of fireworks remaining, that no fireworks display
shall be held during any wind storm in which the wind reaches a velocity of more
than thirty miles per hour, that all the persons in actual charge of firing the fireworks
shall be over the age of eighteen years, competent and physically fit for the task, that
there shall be at least two such operators constantly on duty during the discharge and
that at least two soda-acid or other approved type fire extinguisher of at least two
and one-half gallons capacity each shall be kept at as widely separated points as
possible within the actual area of the display.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION RE-APPOINTING CANDICE MORABITO TO
BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW
RESOLUTION NO.: 98, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 56
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town of Queensbury has previously established the Town of Queensbury
Board of Assessment Review pursuant to applicable New York State law, and
WHEREAS, the term of Board of Assessment Review Member Candice Morabito recently
expired and Ms. Morabito would like to be re-appointed to the Board for a new five year term,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby re-appoints Candice Morabito to
serve as a member of the Queensbury Board of Assessment Review, with her term to expire
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September 30, 2009.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2005 BUDGET –
EMPLOYEE SALARY TRANSFERS
RESOLUTION NO.: 99, 2004
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the attached Budget Amendment Requests have been duly initiated and
justified and are deemed compliant with Town operating procedures and accounting practices by the
Town Budget Officer, and
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board has set the Year 2005 employee salaries and so
appropriations need to be adjusted accordingly,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 57
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board authorizes and directs the Town Budget
Officer to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2005 Town Budget as follows:
2005 Budget
Adjustment
Non-Union Full
Time Employees
From AccountTo Account
001-1110-1062
001-1990-1002 2,684.00
001-1110-1070
2,160.00
001-1110-1212
3,135.00
001-1220-1050
1,155.00
001-1315-1039
1,295.00
001-1315-1090
1,999.00
001-1315-1140
5,951.00
001-1315-1180
1,292.00
001-1330-1090
906.00
001-1330-1130
1,198.00
001-1355-1078
1,198.00
001-1355-1160
1,981.00
001-1355-1170
4,461.00
- 001-1355-1730
001-1410-1200
2,600.00
001-1420-1890
1,760.00
001-1460-1061
875.00
001-1620-1221
1,592.00
001-1680-1041
2,010.00
001-3410-1480
2,830.00
001-3410-1630
3,126.00
001-3620-1372
5,202.00
001-3620-1605
1,453.67
001-3620-1820
2,464.00
001-5010-1300
1,689.00
001-5010-1311
1,216.00
001-5010-1320
1,079.00
001-7020-1330
2,786.00
001-7020-1360
2,587.00
001-7020-1361
2,730.00
001-7620-1860
1,809.00
001-8010-1605
1,453.67
001-8010-1606
4,129.00
001-8020-1605
1,453.67
001-8020-1620
2,992.00
Grand Total
77,252.00
From AccountTo Account
002-1990-1002 1,449.00 002-8810-1380
From AccountTo Account
032-1990-1002 2,000.00 4,416.00 032-8110-1810
032-9040-8040 2,416.00
4,416.00
From AccountTo Account
040-1990-1002 9,300.00 1,680.00 040-8330-1540
040-9040-8040 2,735.00 3,989.00 040-8310-1770
12,035.00 2,247.00 040-8310-1500
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 58
2,436.00 040-8310-1490
1,683.00 040-8340-1550
12,035.00
From AccountTo Account
910-1990-1002 1,500.00 2,001.00 910-8160-1600
910-9040-8040 501.00
2,001.00
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
DISCUSSION BEFORE VOTE:
Councilman Boor-Is there a reason why there aren’t names associated with these? I assume every
account has a name.
Ms. Switzer, Budget Officer-Yes, every account has a name, it’s to get away from the connotation
of people picking apart the raises that go with individuals.
Councilman Boor-The problem I had is, I don’t know if these correspond with the ones that we
approved, they’re just numbers. I’m sure they’re correct but there would be no way to review if this
was accurate from the Town Board perspective.
Ms. Switzer, Budget Officer-It’s not anything that you have to passed tonight, I can have Joanne go
back and add the descriptions to these.
Town Board held discussion, agreed to move forward, approve resolution and Jennifer agreed to
provide a spreadsheet with more detail to the Board… (vote taken)
RESOLUTION TO AMEND 2005 BUDGET
RESOLUTION NO.: 100, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Daniel Stec
WHEREAS, the attached Budget Amendment Requests have been duly initiated and
justified and are deemed compliant with Town operating procedures and accounting practices by the
Town Budget Officer,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 59
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Budget Officer’s Office to take all action necessary to transfer funds and amend the 2004 Town
Budget as follows:
FROM: TO: $ AMOUNT:
04-5110-4400 04-1950-4430 26.
(Misc. Contractual) (Property Tax)
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ENGAGEMENT OF C.T. MALE
ASSOCIATES, P.C. FOR ENGINEERING AND SURVEY SERVICES IN
CONNECTION WITH REPLACEMENT OF WATER MAINS IN MEADOW
LANE, MEADOW DRIVE AND MEADOWVIEW ROAD
RESOLUTION NO.: 101, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Town’s Deputy Water Superintendent has requested a proposal for
engineering services concerning the replacement of water mains on Meadow Lane, Meadow Drive
and Meadowview Road in the Town of Queensbury (Meadow Lane Water Replacement Project),
and
WHEREAS, the Deputy Water Superintendent has recommended that the Town Board
authorize engagement of C.T. Male Associates, P.C., for engineering and survey services related to
such Project for a fee not to exceed $87,715, as delineated in C.T. Male’s Proposal dated January
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14, 2005 and presented at this meeting,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs engagement
of C.T. Male Associates, P.C. for engineering and survey services concerning the replacement of
water mains on Meadow Lane, Meadow Drive and Meadowview Road in the Town of Queensbury
(Meadow Lane Water Replacement Project), for an amount not to exceed $87,715, as delineated in
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C.T. Male’s Proposal dated January 14, 2005 and presented at this meeting and as follows:
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 60
A. Report and Design Phase - $35,800 (Lump Sum)
B. Survey - $ 7,600 (Lump Sum)
C. Contract Administration $10,500 (Lump Sum)
D. Contract Observation:
1. Labor: 5,900 LF/100’/day = 59 days:
12 weeks estimated @ 8.5 hrs/day=
510 hrs @ $60/hr - $30,600
2. Mileage: 60 days x 50 mi/day @ $0.405/mi - $ 1,215.
-----------
$31,815 (Estimated Fee)
E. Easements: Not anticipated
F. Soil Borings: - $ 2,000 (Estimated)
TOTAL PROPOSAL LUMP SUM PORTION - $53,900
TOTAL PROPOSAL ESTIMATED PORTION - $33,815
TOTAL PROJECT - $87,715
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs that payment for C.T.
Male’s services shall be paid for from Transfer to Capital Project #40-9950-9030, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Water Superintendent,
Deputy Water Superintendent, Town Clerk, Budget Officer and/or Town Supervisor to execute any
documentation and take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of
this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
DISCUSSION BEFORE VOTE:
Councilman Strough-These engineering services, was it bid on?
Mr. Bruce Ostrander, Deputy Water Superintendent-No, it was not put out to bid. CT Male will be
doing a project for us on Bay Road. They’ve done projects like this in the past for the Town, they
are the Town’s engineer so we just decided to go with CT Male.
Councilman Turner-Bay Road, Wincrest Drive, what else?
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 61
Mr. Ostrander, Deputy Water Superintendent-They’re going to do Bay Road, Wincrest in the
spring, they can have some people who will be working on both projects.
Councilman Strough-Well, I was just wondering if we couldn’t have gotten it done less expensive if
we had bid it out. Okay, well it’s a done deal now but I think our relationship with CT Male has
gotten pretty cozy and pretty expensive but next year we’ll bid out, thank you Bruce. (vote taken)
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVERTISEMENT FOR BIDS FOR
WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT ALONG BAY ROAD AND
INSTALLATION OF WATER MAIN CONNECTOR AT COUNTRY CLUB
ROAD AND WINCREST DRIVE PROJECT
RESOLUTION NO.: 102, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 169.2004, the Queensbury Town Board authorized
engagement of C.T. Male Associates, P.C. (CT Male) for design phase, contract administration
phase, construction observation and easement preparation services in connection with the Bay Road
Water Main Replacement Project, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 489,2004, the Town Board authorized engagement of CT
Male for additional design services and preparation of engineer’s report for an additional connection
between the water main on Country Club Road and the water main on Wincrest Drive, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 49,2005, the Town Board such additional improvements to
the Queensbury Consolidated Water District, and
WHEREAS, C.T. Male has prepared bid documents and specifications to advertise for bids
for the improvements authorized by Resolution No. 49,2005, such work to include, among other
things, installation of 4,190 LF of 12-inch water main along the east side of Bay Road from just
north of Cronin Road to the Adirondack Community College property (3,653 LF of 12” DIP by
open cut and 537 LF of 12” HDPE by directional drill), fire hydrants, valves, bedding, backfill,
pavement and lawn restoration, with the existing water main to be kept in service until the services
are moved to the new main, and installation of approximately 210 LF of 8-inch pipe to connect the
8-inch water main on Country Club Road with the 6-inch main on Wincrest Drive, and
WHEREAS, General Municipal Law §103 requires that the Town advertise for bids and
award the bid to the lowest responsible bidder meeting New York State statutory requirements and
the requirements set forth in the Town’s bid documents and specifications,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 62
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Purchasing Agent and/or C.T. Male Associates, P.C., to post and publish an advertisement for bids
to be prepared by C.T. Male Associates, P.C., for the Bay Road Water Main Replacement Project
and receive all bids, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town’s Purchasing
Agent to open all received bids, read them aloud and record the bids as is customarily done and
present the bids to the next regular or special meeting of the Town Board.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION APPROVING AUDIT OF BILLS –
ND
ABSTRACT OF FEBRUARY 2,2005
RESOLUTION NO.: 103, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board wishes to approve the audit of bills presented as
rdth
the Abstract with a run date of February 3, 2005 and a payment date of February 8, 2005,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby approves the Abstract with a run
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date of February 3, 2005 and payment date of February 8, 2005 numbering 25-034300 through
25-059100 and totaling $1,310,458.59, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Budget Officer and/or
Town Supervisor to take such other and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of
this Resolution.
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 63
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION APPOINTING CHARLES DYER AS BUILDING AND
CODES ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
RESOLUTION NO.: 104, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established the position of Building
and Code Enforcement Officer and has agreed to hire another Building and Code Enforcement
Officer in the Community Development Department, and
WHEREAS, the Executive Director of Community Development and/or Director of
Building and Codes Enforcement posted availability for the position, reviewed resumes,
interviewed interested candidates and have made a hiring recommendation to the Town Board,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby appoints Charles Dyer to the full-
time position of Building and Code Enforcement Officer, an overtime eligible, Grade 5 position
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within the Town of Queensbury’s Non-Union Position Grade Schedule, effective February 9, 2005
on a provisional basis until such time as Mr. Dyer passes the Civil Service exam for the position and
also subject to successful completion of a six (6) month probation period, a pre-employment
physical as required by Town Policy and any other applicable Civil Service requirements, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that Mr. Dyer shall be paid an annual salary of $32,000, with a raise to an
annual salary of $35,000 upon successful completion of the six (6) month probationary period,
passing of all building and code classes and passing the required Civil Service exam, and
BE IT FURTHER,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 64
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Executive Director of Community Development and/or Budget Officer to complete any forms and
take any necessary action to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AWARDING BID FOR 2005 COMBINATION DUMP BODY
WITH SNOWPLOW AND HYDRAULICS FOR
TOWN HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT
RESOLUTION NO.: 105, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHEREAS, the Town’s Purchasing Agent duly advertised for bids for the purchase of a
2005 Combination Dump Body with Snowplow and Hydraulics, and
WHEREAS, Arrowhead Equipment, Inc., submitted the lowest responsible bid for the
Combination Dump Body with Snowplow and Hydraulics in the amount of $66,550and the
Highway Superintendent and Purchasing Agent have recommended that the Town Board award the
bid to Arrowhead Equipment, Inc.,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby awards the bid for a 2005
Combination Dump Body with Snowplow and Hydraulics to Arrowhead Equipment, Inc.,for an
amount not to exceed $66,550 to be paid for from Highway Heavy Equipment Account No.: 04-
5130-2040, and
BE IT FURTHER,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 65
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor,
Highway Superintendent, Purchasing Agent and/or Budget Officer to take any and all actions
necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
th
Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005 by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING PURCHASE OF PROPERTY OWNED BY
TUPPER CLARK LIMBERT, ROBERT C. LIMBERT AND STEVEN T.
LIMBERT FOR TOWN PURPOSES
RESOLUTION NO.: 106, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough
WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board previously established a Capital Improvement
Plan Reserve Fund #64 (Fund #64) for future Town project developments, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No.: 124, 2004 the Queensbury Town Board authorized
establishment of Capital Project Fund #144 to fund expenses associated with the acquisition of
property and associated professional services including engineering survey and preliminary, site
analysis, work, and
WHEREAS, a parcel of land totaling 49.09± acres (Property) located along the north side of
Haviland Road in the Town of Queensbury, Tax Map Parcel No.: 289.16-1-2 is currently for sale,
and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has determined that the Property is necessary for possible
future Town of Queensbury campus expansion, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to purchase the Property for $230,000 plus any costs
associated with title insurance and recording the deed, and
§
WHEREAS, in accordance with New York State General Municipal Law 6(c), the Town
Board is authorized to withdraw and expend funds from Fund #144 subject to permissive
referendum,
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 66
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves and authorizes the purchase of the
property known as Tax Map Parcel No.: 289.16-1-2 consisting of 49.09± acres located along the
north side of Haviland Road in the Town of Queensbury from Tupper Clark Limbert, Robert C.
Limbert and Steven T. Limbert for $230,000, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor to
execute any and all documents necessary to complete these transactions, including, without
limitation, a real estate contract in form acceptable to Town Counsel, any Real Property Transfer
Reports and Capital Gains Affidavits and take such other and further action as may be necessary to
effectuate the terms of this Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that this Resolution is subject to a permissive referendum in accordance with
the provisions of Town Law Article 7 and the Town Board hereby authorizes and directs the Town
Clerk to publish and post such notices and take such other actions as may be required by law.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING ADVANCE PAYMENT(S) TO BAY RIDGE
AND WEST GLENS FALLS VOLUNTEER FIRE COMPANIES
RESOLUTION NO.: 107, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
WHEREAS, fire protection services are provided to the Town of Queensbury by the Bay
Ridge Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., North Queensbury Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., Queensbury Central
Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., South Queensbury Volunteer Fire Co, Inc., and the West Glens Falls
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 67
Volunteer Fire Co., Inc., (Fire Companies) in accordance with agreements between each Fire
Company and the Town, and
WHEREAS, the Town’s agreements with the Fire Companies expired on December 31,
2004, and
WHEREAS, the Town and Fire Companies have agreed to continue to provide fire
protection services under the terms and provisions of the existing agreements during the interim
period pending execution of new agreements which is anticipated after the public hearing on new
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fire protection services agreements to be held on or about February 28, 2005, and
WHEREAS, by Resolution No. 51, 2005, the Town Board authorized advance payments on
the 2005 agreements to the Fire Companies, as the Fire Companies may face cash flow shortages
before the new agreements can be executed, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board wishes to authorize another advance payment on the 2005
agreements to the Bay Ridge and West Glens Falls Fire Companies, such advances to be deducted
from contract payments to be paid after the 2005 contracts are ratified,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes another advance payment
on the 2005 agreements to the Bay Ridge and West Glens Falls Fire Companies and authorizes and
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directs the Town Supervisor to approve payment vouchers for 1/12 of each Fire Company’s
respective 2004 Contract Amount (not including Vehicle Fund) in advance payment on the new fire
protection services 2005 agreements, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Supervisor and
Budget Officer to make the necessary arrangements to advance such payment(s) and take such other
and further action as may be necessary to effectuate the terms of this Resolution.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
Regular Town Board Meeting, 02-07-2005, Mtg #7 68
ACTION OF RESOLUTIONS PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED FROM FLOOR - NONE
ATTORNEY MATTERS
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-I have three matters. One is, we’re working on that resolution about
the cable TV, you’ll have that in time for your next meeting for you to discuss. Our second thing,
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we gave you a memo on the 3 relating to proposed revisions to Underground Utilities Law, I’d
appreciate getting input from you guys whether or not you agree with the suggestions in there or
not. So, I need your feedback. The third one is, you had talked about West Glens Falls and the
Connector Road and that Counsel would be acting in the future. We’ve already started, we met with
the engineer, the Town is engaged to work on that project, spent quite a bit of time with him sort of
outlining what’s going on. We’re preparing sort of a checklist of who does what, and we’re
working with Marilyn on that. I talked with the attorney for West Glens Falls EMS today to set up a
time to meet with him so that we can start agreeing, because there’s a lot of steps that have to go
together on that. So, we are working on that.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Questioned whether Town Counsel had a response regarding the letter
written to NIMO about the property?
TOWN COUNSEL HAFNER-We have nothing new since the last time that we talked.
COUNCILMAN BREWER-Send them another letter and asked them why.
SUPERVISOR STEC-Their vice-president Bill Flaherty did communicate that they found it and
they know what we’re talking about now. So, it was good that they found it and it was not lost.
Now, we need to just get them to act on it.
NO EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION ADJOURN REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO.: 108, 2005
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED FOR IT’S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns it’s Regular
Town Board Meeting.
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Duly adopted this 7 day of February, 2005, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stec, Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
No further action taken.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
DARLEEN M. DOUGHER
TOWN CLERK
TOWN OF QUEENSBURY