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2009-06-11 SP MTG. #24 54 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #24 June 11, 2009 RES. 204-206 7:00 P.M. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ANTHONY METIVIER COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER Town Sole Assessor Terry Ross Representatives of the Fire Companies Jeff Baertschi-No. Queensbury Fire Company Joe Maille-Queensbury Central Joe Duprey-Queensbury Central Joe Holding-Queensbury Central Doug Coons-Bay Ridge Pat Mellon-Bay Ridge Chip Mellon-Bay Ridge Matt Sumner-West Glens Falls Kevin Miner-West Glens Falls Bob Dunn-West Glens Falls Bob Gilman-West Glens Falls John Cameron-West Glens Falls Eric Lettus-South Queensbury Dave Jones-South Queensbury Dave Susselman-South Queensbury DISCUSSION: Review of Draft MMA Fire Services Study (Draft Report) Supervisor Stec-Called the meeting to order…all Board Members are present as well as MMA on this Perry Plummer and Mark Morse, and representation from all five fire companies. Thanked all the Fire representative for attending the meeting. This document is for planning purposes to make sure that going forward you will continue to be equipped well to provide the service that you do at the best price. MMA PRESENTATION OF THE DRAFT REPORT 1.Collected data from each department-data from the County-financial information 2.Reviewed by several individuals, to be seen by fresh eyes. 3.Looking at each individual company each one is reasonably well operated a.Looking at the entire system, we are not sure all the parts fit together appropriately b.Most important issues Town wide: Stronger methods of communication and coordination are essential: to be done two ways-full time or part time fire coordinator with a specific role-expertise on the town side and provide services to the fire companies and help coordinate the system. Two: fire committee that meets on a regular basis which has the staff support of that person, to discuss issues and to make decisions on the way some resources should be allocated. The Fire Committee and Coordinator has a variety of responsibilities, through the budget process having a uniform frame work, sharing of resources in a coordinated way. Need information on events such as; how long did it take to get there, who got there, what kind of apparatus got there, what were the qualifications of the people who got there that would give us a sense of the effectiveness of the operation we are paying for. 55 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 c.Measurements: Look at cost of services; County Communications had data but there are certain things that we could not get because of report writing criteria. We could get in district response but not outside of it. NFPA 1720 – some measure of performance against that, those are pieces of information that the Board should like to see it shows what we are getting and what kind of response we are having. Coordination issue, generation of important information and some measures of that information to look at on a town wide basis as well as a company basis. d.Fire Counsel-critical role in making determination on where certain resources should be spent over time; developing coordinated plans, developing closer working relationships, moving to different kinds of response issues. Our view is response should be closest unit available; district lines are less significant to the citizen on the street than who is the most closest unit available to respond. TOWN BOARD QUESTIONS Councilman Montesi-The Fire Companies will have to buy into having a Fire Coordinator...the long established boundaries of fire companies response area are no longer relevant, I think we all realize that, nobody wants to give up or take away or pass on some of your territory, the Town Board can do that and if that is what you want to do we will do it, but he wants you to do it. Councilman Brewer-I would like the five Chiefs or five representatives or ten or whatever it takes to come up with a plan and the Town Board work with them and come up with the best boundaries that are laid out for the community. MMA Representative-Risk Assessment-it is not just time and distance it includes appropriate apparatus, risk of the occupancy. Councilman Montesi-Although the Town has the ability to make the changes in district lines we do not want to do that without your input. Councilman Strough-I did not find the changes in district lines such an easy solvable problem, the distances is only one factor, the type of fire, what kind of personnel are ready to respond, the type of apparatus needed and the availability of the apparatus needed, what is the traffic flow from this point to the emergency, what is the nature of the emergency is the human danger and if there is what is the proximity to EMS response? It is not just a simple answer setting the boundaries. Supervisor Stec-Noted the last study was 1996 and there was one in the 80’s…one of the options is maintain the status quo..whatever we do we want to have it with your buy in. You have indicated that none of you are satisfied with the status quo. Councilman Strough-Emphasized the changes in Town including the next twenty years. MMA Representative-Long term planning both financial and operational so when you look at rezoning etc. adjustments can be made. RESPONSE FROM THE FIRE COMPANIES Fireman-I think it is just another layer of government that is not going to go anywhere. Who is going to be the coordinator? Fireman-Have you studied the legalities of this fire coordinator in New York State because a Town cannot have a fire department as such and looking at some of the recommendations of what the fire coordinator would do it goes right along with what a fire chief does in a paid position. 56 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 MMA Representative-From the Towns perspective if you look at the hard cash element, we spend a couple of million dollars and we do not know if it is managed, so that is one part of the job. The second part of the job is there are things that can be coordinated, via joint purchase to hiring a contactor to repair turn out gear to develop a standardize budget format so the internal people understand what is going on. Also need staff support to do it, different role than Chief. Supervisor Stec-There would be limits on what kind of authority this person would have by law. Fireman-Why a coordinator vs a fire commissioner? If you hire a coordinator he will probably be there for life and answers to you guys, a fire commissioner is elected by the people. MMA Representative-Need consistence, whether you want to add a full time employee to do that but it is imperative that something gets done. Not only to standardize and interact with the Board but also be your advocate. Supervisor Stec-Over the last ten years every company has had a complaint about what some other company did that it did not make sense in the big picture if you want to live with that, that is fine but you all complain about it. I think we all agree that it is probably not the best thing to do. Councilman Montesi-Spoke to the fire companies about bidding out insurance and the possible savings or quantity purchases to save money it would need coordination. Firemen-Suggested that the five chiefs need to meet in a formal atmosphere. MMA Representative-Noted formal meetings is where the action will happen. Supervisor Stec-There may be a role for the Town in purchasing, we have a purchasing agent , there is a value in mass ordering. Fireman-Regarding the Coordinator, without an accurate job description it is a matter of interpretation of what this guy or girl can do…regarding purchasing we use State Contract. Supervisor Stec-Noted that State Contract is not always the lowest. Fireman-Regarding group purchases, every year we do the hose testing, ladder testing there are things like that, that already do go on. There are certain things to standardize on, we must remain objective and get together. Spoke on articles that are purchased together. MMA Representative-Our goal is to get all five fire companies to get together on a regular basis…to look at some of these things, where can we share resources and coordinating your efforts for your emergency protection. Regarding coordinator the job description would be written by the five chiefs and the Town together. The more you can agree and break down the barriers the better off you will be. Councilman Montesi-MMA has been opposed to fire districts and you recommended two ladder trucks…requested that they speak on this. MMA Representative-RE: Ladder trucks-two ladder trucks would serve the community adequately, where you place them the expertise in this room can decide. Re: fire districts I fully can appreciate why North wants to do that, the issue is that when we asked to look at the system we were asked to look at it town wide, it will reallocate monies. The national trend is to reduce the total number of jurisdictions. In any area it may not change operations that much, any district benefits from its neighbor. There is a reluctance to increase districts at this time.. 57 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 Fireman-The 1996 report was shelved and nothing was done, spoke on the growth in West Glens Falls and the changes in the last twelve years. Spoke on the need for a aerial truck. MMA Representative-We think ideally there should be two aerial ladder trucks, we would leave it to the fire counsel to decide where they should be placed. Everyone can justify the equipment they have plus much more, but there is only so much money and so many resources. Supervisor Stec-The snap shot we got today is we have four heavy rescues and two aerials in the town and the report says the ultimate migration is that we would ideally land in the future with two aerials and two heavy rescues. Fireman-In order for me to give this report any weight at all I have got to have some questions answered from how you compiled your data, some of it is incorrect. In my opinion you did not spend enough time in each department. MMA Representative-We are speaking from a town wide perspective and that is where the failure in the system has collapsed. I am not interested in micro managing how you do your business what I am worrying about is how the system fits together. Fireman-Each district has its own unique situations and I do not think that they were addressed. Fireman-Discussed the response time that was given by Warren County, noted some differences. The data should not have been listed in the reports. MMA Representative-Noted that they only have in district response data they cannot generate a report that says outside of that. Fireman-Presented to the Board a tape of response time for a fire alarm. MMA Representative-We are very specific the things that need to report, what apparatus was there, what people were there, what were the qualifications of the people, as well as the time. An individual thing is interesting because it shows a communication issue or a training issue, that is part of the issue that you might want to raise with somebody. It also raises a technical issue by the way they run the communication system which may be a software issue. The only way to do this is to have a systematic collection of it and it has to be done the same way by each fire company and you have got to get the County to do something different. Fireman-Questioned if it would make sense to add a paragraph clarifying how the data was received and reviewed. Supervisor Stec-Noted the concerns of the fire company that data may be pulled out of context. Fireman-You missed some apparatus in some the departments, you are missing tankers. Councilman Metivier-In the essence of time since it is quarter of nine why don’t we go around the room and without any interruptions and highlight what you have found wrong with the report or right and lets see where we get in the next half an hour. MMA Representative-Requested that any errors to the report circle them and send me an e-mail, send a fax and let me know the correct data. Fireman-Comparing data from 1996 to present-there were 30 pieces of apparatus in the Town of Queensbury, you study said given the large geographical area of the town the size of the population the we number of apparatus is basically appropriate, now you fast forward were here are recommending that you go from 28 pieces to 22 with no justification. 58 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 MMA Representative-There is a lot of justification, first of all we did not have the evolution of 1720 and things such as that. Fireman-You did not look at the budget for the Town. I think we manage our system well. Fireman-The fire budget for the Town of Queensbury given the size, types of structures, the affluence of the Town is inadequate and it shows with the aging fleet the vehicles are not being replaced, why because the budget did not keep pace with inflation. Supervisor Stec-Invited the firemen to state tonight or e-mail the changes in the data to MMA for review and changes in the draft document. One thing that did come out tonight was the inconsistencies on how things are reported to the County. Councilman Metivier-Volunteered to sit down with each company and go over the data they feel is inaccurate and pass it onto MMA. Supervisor Stec-Reviewed boundaries in the fire district. Would like a town wide solution to the problem, North is tucked away, the rest need to be looked at the lines… At the end of the day we want all two hundred of you that are volunteering your time with no pay, and thank you again a hundred and one times, that we want to continue to say it matters it is making a difference and it makes sense. The last thing I want any of you guys to do is be a volunteer for a system for the Town that is broken, and right now the way the lines are they are not perfect, they might not be shattered but they certainly could be improved. Councilman Strough-It seems right now, North, Central, Bay Ridge, South they all have some input and an opinion, pro and con about the report so I would like see what they each have to say and I think we need somebody to coordinate that effort. Supervisor Stec-Either e-mail comments to my office by the end of the month and I will forward to MMA and the Town Board Members. Councilman Strough-Suggested comment letter on the report from each company. DISCUSSION: Town Assessor Terry Ross - Litigation RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 204, 2009 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss assessment litigation. th Duly adopted this 11 day of June, 2009 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 205, 2009 59 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 06-11-2009 MTG. #24 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVES FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. th Duly adopted this 11 day of June, 2009 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None No action taken during the Executive Session RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 206, 2009 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Town Board Meeting. th Duly adopted this 11 day of June, 2009 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury