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1987-11-05 SP a1 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING NOVEMBER 5, 1987 - 7:30 P.M. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS FRANCES WALTER - SUPERVISOR GEORGE KUR.OSAKA- COUNCILMAN STEPHEN BORGOS - COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI - COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN - COUNCILMAN PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY COUNCILMAN BETTY MONAHAN WILSON MATHIAS - TOWN COUNSEL PRESS - Glens Falls Post Star, W WSC GUESTS - Rick Missita, Mr..Brassel, Mrs. Strafford Jeffrey Kelly, Mrs. Burrell Mrs. Robinson, Mr. Hillman, Mr. Montgomery PUBLIC HEARING-regarding the Queensbury Town Budget for 1988. NOTICE SHOWN SUPERVISOR WALTER-The purpose of the meeting is a hearing on the 1988 preliminary budget. We are about mid-way in our budget proceeding, a tentative budget was filed in September. The Town Board has had an opportunity to go through that budget and have made several changes from the original tentative into a preliminary budget. The purpose of the public hearing is to get some comments from the public regarding the budget...the Town Board will then take into consideration those comments and a final budget would be approved and by law it has to be done before November 21st. Expenditures from 1987 to 1988 have increased one million, forty one thousand, two hundred sixty four dollars, the revenues have increased also from five thousand, three hundred fourteen, six hundred sixty five in 1987 to six million one hundred ninety four and ten dollars in 1988, that is a percentage of about 16%. Last year our Town wide taxes that needed to be raised amounted to seven hundred fourteen thousand, seven hundred seventy one dollars, that was before a surplus was applied. In prior years and also with this years budget the surplus, being that amount over what we estimate for sales tax is applied towards next years budget, last year we applied five hundred thousand dollars. In 1988 ! we are looking to raise Town wide eight hundred and seventy six thousand, six hundred ninety dollars and that is before applying any surplus sales tax funds. That would be an increase of about one hundred sixty-one thousand, nine hundred nineteen dollars and that would be about a 23% increase, in dollars it would be .16 per thousand increase. Asked for public comment. Michael Brassel-34 Coolidge Avenue, Glens Falls, I am here from Crandall Library, a trustee and head up the finance and budget for the Library. I am here to thank you for your past support and to reiterate our request for a hundred sixty eight thousand dollars, and to answer any question you may have about our budget. I would like to comment on some of the expenses in our budget. Our expenses are up a hundred fourteen thousand dollars, inclusive of grant related expenditures. Included in this amount are some extraordinary increases... twenty eight thousand dollars for automation project, thirteen thousand dollars for a para-professional in the children's library, sixteen thousand dollars for renovations including auditorium, and office space and a twenty-six thousand increase for materials, mainly books, this is an amount that we consider necessary to run the library. Necessary for an adequate book collection and adequately compensated staff, reasonable maintenance of the building and some replacement of equipment. I would comment that as a trustee in the Library my main responsibility is to provide adequate funding and when we become trustees we accept the responsibility....and because of that responsibility that we have asked for significant but what we consider necessary increase. I am joined by several of our trustees and our director and we would be glad to answer any questions you might have. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-It appears that one of the documents that the library has...and ., you do a great job of keeping us informed by giving us the monthly meetings minutes and the budget...it makes me feel like I am part of it...you said there was a list of libraries funded throughout the state, and it appeared that we ended up, Glens Falls, Queensbury, South Glens Falls 114 out of 120...some of the libraries were being funded by communities to the tune of $18.00 to $20.00 per capita...why are we so low, and is there something that we don't know in these other places that their funding per capita is so high? I have always thought of our area as progressive and always thought of us as concerned citizens, but it bothers me...now working with the budget it bothers me even more, I wonder, why are they so attentive at $20.00 per capita in relatively good size communities, how did that happen and not happen up here? DIR. BRASSEL- the survey we provided you with was 110 libraries serving a population between 20,000 and 60,000 persons. We were 97th, and this is since 1985 in per capita municipal support. The libraries in that survey, those who have a very very high per capita, some of them were in very well off parts of the state,even Long Island, refer to them, so we put them aside and in our own review look at the upstate libraries. The reason, I am concerned as you are, but I have a lot of wonderment about the library several years ago, when per capita was three dollars then three fifty and four dollars and I can only attribute it to nonagressive request for funds. GEORGE KUROSAKA-If it was where it was supposed to be before we wouldn't have any problem, we are playing catch up. MR. BRASSEL-I agree—one of the effects of the poor funding in the past which as you say was related to the request, the collection of the libraries is approximately one hundred seventy thousand volumes. About forty percent of that, we estimate predate 1975 and in library statistics that's' an aged collection and we are indeed playing catch up. . COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Is the library aggressively into videos and if we are, are we being too progressive in that particular area in view of the fact that we have an aged book collection? MR. BRASSEL-I would say we are not aggressively into videos, we are moderately into videos. I would say videos constitutes less than 2% of our budget. We have been enlightened over the past year what constitutes suitable library services and materials and looking at the library system these are not inappropriate and they do fulfill our mission. A good deal of them are constructive and educational types of videos. We are ready to cut hack on the video budget, it is $12,000.00, it wouldn't materially impact on our budget. COUNCILMAN BORGOS-We are very much aware of the problem...I for one have been hoping to hear something favorable from Warren County...that as yet has not been determined, the proposed minor increase will be somewhat beneficial...I would like to see them come through with a hundred thousand that you have asked for and help take the burden off the town...one way or the other the taxpayers are going to pay it. MR. BRASSEL-We do aggressively seek funding for Crandall Library because we are committed to having a quality library, to have a student go down and do research and not have adequate periodicals is a disheartening thing. SUPERVISOR WALTER-What is the directors salary? MR. BRASSELL-$37,000 less than the Saratoga Public Library a smaller library we look at that salary and every other one in light of peer group salaries... JENNIE STRATFORD-Resident of Hiland Dr. Qsby.-I am the Director of Warren Washington Counties, Big Brother Big Sisters, I am here to talk about that nonprofit organization. Here with me tonight also are three Queensbury Residents Mrs. Homenick who is the past President of our Board, Jeff Kelly is our current treasurer and former Big Brother and Craig Bromley who is Vice President and Big Brother. We have served the Warren Washington County area as a nonprofit organization for thirteen years. It was the decision of our Board of Directors to seek funding from the Queensbury Town this year. We will be approaching other Town Boards in our service area for funding. Glens Falls has been providing us with funding and office space, heat and lights for eleven years. Whitehall and Cambridge those towns have also provided us with funding over the course of our thirteen years of existence. We are experiencing growth not only in the need and requests for our service but also in the interest in the volunteer to provide service for us. Our goal for expansion is,to hire a Jr. Project Coordinator Case Worker to provide the necessary manpower for our expanded service. An example of our growth is a high school Big Brother, Big Sister Club, the enthusiasm of the students sixteen years old and older to become Big Brothers, Big Sisters is overwhelming. The success of this pilot club at the Glens Falls High School we would like to offer this service to other area high schools, Queensbury in Warren County and Hudson Falls and Fort Edward in Washington County will be approached next. This will alleviate the wait many of the little ones have for our services which frequently is one to two years. I have given you our youth initiative proposal on page seven is our 1988 budget, page nine explains that we have a shortage of seven thousand seven hundred and forty seven dollars and ten cents, it also will tell you the amount of our request for the Town of Queensbury which is one thousand one hundred and sixty two dollars and seven cents. We have based that one our service to the Town which is fifteen percent of our total program matches. We are feeling very good about our Board )8 of Directors, five of our thirteen board members are Queensbury residents. As a volunteer nonprofit agency we are providing eleven thousand fifty seven hours of volunteer manpower per year based on our current number of matches. We hope that you agree that our service is a value to the Town and that you will be able to support us through funding. SUPERVISOR WALTER-We have received a letter from Big Brothers, Big Sisters, I did invite them to come to the Budget Hearing, also indicating to them that in the past we have not funded outside organizations but they were welcome to come tonight. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Big Brothers, Big Sisters-Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts are all special interests... COUNCILMAN BORGOS-Have you come before? MRS. STRATFORD-We did come two years ago, we are confused about the policy on i outside nonprofit organizations, the Library, the Hyde, the Chapman are nonprofit organizations. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-They are community organizations...they serve the whole community... MRS. STRATFORD-We offer our service to everyone... COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Your service is no use to an adult... MRS. STRATFORD-That is not true...the need to be a Big Brother, Big Sister is great... SUPERVISOR WALTER-We have a problem...in contracting with other organizations and agencies such as the Hyde and the Chapman and the Library that they offer to us a service that will be beneficial to the whole community, I understand that you say you offer your service to the community and yet a small segment of the community uses or has a need for your service, in the other situations everyone in the community would have the need for the service. There can be a thousand small groups in the Town and I will tell the Board the other groups that will be looking for funding and in the past it has been the policy of the town that we would not fund the smaller groups who came into the community or into the town asking for help. We felt that it could be underwritten by those people that use the service or those people who would like to contribute or donate service not the taxpayers as a whole. Any board could have a change of heart that is why I asked you to come before the Board this evening. i COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Are you funded by the United Way? MRS. STRATFORD-Yes, we have four different funding sources and they change each year it is nothing we can count on, we have had to increase our fund raising, we cannot always count on donations so that puts us in a bind to plan. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-In the revenue it says United Way Tri County and Cambridge—what part of that-comes from Glens Falls? MRS. STRATFORD-Forty five hundred... COUNCILMAN BORGOS-What about Queensbury School? MRS. STRATFORD-We have just been told that there might be a possibility to as for some funds through the PTA I was not aware of that until two days ago. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-I hope that I am not giving you the wrong impression, I am a forty two year Boy Scouter, I know what being a volunteer in a group can do for you, you give and you feel good about it... MRS. STRATFORD-I feel as a resident we are growing and changing and we are becoming very significant in our area and I hope that we can see that providing funding for small service groups will keep us well rounded. It will make us available to offer us a lot of things I think we are the only service area for Big Brothers, Big Sisters between here and Essex County to the north and Saratoga County does not have an organization anymore --� to loose us because of not being able to fund would be significant. COUNCILMAN BORGOS-Would you give us an example of your service? MRS. STRATFORD-Ninety percent of the people who ask for service are single parents. Frequently they are mothers, without a father in the picture, therefore a lot of boys are waiting for a big Brother although we do have girls waiting for Big Sisters. We ask our volunteers to spend one day a week a minimum of three hours for one full year being a Big Brother to provide a role model to increase self esteem of the person they are working with. We try to offer them discount services low cost activities and provide monthly activities if we can, we do feel that they do well individually, being together trying to do new things, not necessarily that cost anything, we promote that non materialistic attitude. MR. JEFF KELLY-6 Meadowbrook Road-I am on the Board of Directors of Big Brothers, Big Sisters. When we calculated out our budget for 1988 which was $37,646.00 based on the man hours that our group puts in we are offering very substantial prominent help to these children and it works out to be $3.40 per hour. This being less than the minimum wage we feel that is a very worthwhile kind of project and reasonable in cost vs maybe nine or ten dollars for a social worker if these children end up getting into trouble not that all of them are, there are certain cases that we come across a little guidance, an adult spending time with a child maybe the parent or parents cannot do is invaluable to this person. We have to look at it in a dollar and cents thing those kinds of numbers I do not think we are asking for a lot of money, thirty seven thousand I do not think is what I think is a big budget. We are trying to be reasonable, I hear the library and their needs I like the library and I use the library I think it is a worthwhile cause too. I think one of the things that you have to look at in our organization are total assets probably amount to four thousand dollars, we do not have a building to pay for we do not have much of anything, we have desk and a phone bill you have to pay, if you look at our salaries the numbers on the budget are for an expanded program, we are in the neighborhood of twenty eight thousand five hundred dollars in salaries. The bulk of our money is to pay for three people that run the program, we do not have a lot of money for travel and phone and expenditures taking a lot of money and taking a kid to the movies or going to the hockey game and buying tickets we do not do that, it is all volunteer free help, we are not taking taxpayers money and treating them to popcorn. Our program is not to be a Santa Claus to these kids we tell that to our Big Brothers, Big Sisters you do not go out and just spend money on them the idea is the personnel human contact that maybe someone cares about them. We are trying to maintain the program we have and expand it into the schools, we have had tremendous growth in the Glens Falls High School we just started this a year ago, there were fifty students who applied who were interested in being Big Brothers, Big Sisters and overwhelmed us it was a major job to interview the older kids and younger kids, talk to parents, there is a lot of screening to be done. Once we realized the number of people there were in need maybe our case worker needs - more help. Mrs. Homenick did some research on pins (persons in need of services) I believe the numbers that she had in 1987 there were 120 applications for persons in need of services 40% of that figure were people in the Town of Queensbury. I think for the size of our town there are people that are in need and if we can help some of them for one thousand dollars I think we are going to save you a lot of money in tax payers money in professional help, juvenile homes things of that nature. I think we have a lot to offer and I think the time has come maybe you did not do it in the past, the town is growing maybe it is time to take a new look. MRS. MARGARET BURRELL-26 Lynnfield Drive.-I have come to speak on behalf of Crandall Library-the figure quoted in relation to other communities of our size maybe more impressive than the overall throughout the state figures which if I have them correctly for last you we came our 420th out of 725 in local municipal per capita support. Which puts us down in the bottom half, not something I am proud of. When we first came to this community I was impressed by the quality of our public library, I still am but I recognize that many times now when I am seeking a particular book the library does not have it this is partly owing I think to limited access to funds. The library is most cooperative certainly in getting these books for us but it maybe a matter of weeks or even months not on purchase but on loan. There are wonderfully helpful but I think they are handicapped by insufficient funding. I for one not only am I embarrassed but ashamed of our record in comparison to the Town of Moreau I recognize we have been doing better each year and it is a catch up situation but we have a lot more catching up to do in my opinion. I do not like a tax increase any better than the next person but Crandall is asking for a figure of $8.86 per capita the population. The present proposal is 140,000 that comes out to $7.38 per capita as of our population of 1980 seven years ago, we all know we have grown significantly since then if now our population is 20,000 this proposal would work out to about $7.00 per capita. If in fact we are about 25,000 the present proposal comes I think to $5.60 per capital or less than one third of the estimated state wide average of support for the current calendar year 1987. I submit that these are not figures to be proud of. If Crandall were to cut back its services to us in similar proportion, if Crandall in short were to give us a taste of our own medicine it would decide to be open only about three days a week. This is something we should give serious thought and let our priorities reflect respect for what our fine library has to offer us and what it can in addition do for us if we support it as it deserves to be supported. DEBBIE ROBERTSON-Chestnut Ridge Road-I am here as President of the Board of Directors of the Voluntary Action Center also here our Treasurer Mark Bender of Chestnut Ridge �f) and our Director Rita Rath. We are all here tonight to ask that VAC be included in the Queensbury Budget in the amount of $2500.00. Vac serves our area in a variety of ways volunteer recruitment and placement, providing food baskets for families at Thanksgiving and Christmas, information and referral, the alternative sentence program which provides alternatives to fines and incarceration and a new program RSVP Retired Senior Volunteer Program. In addition to that I would like to focus on two programs in particular, home delivered meals and mobile meals. Most people think of them as meals on wheels but that is what we call them. In the mobile wheels program meals are prepared at the Glens Falls Hospital and delivered by volunteers to home bound senior citizens who pay for the meals. Forty-five meals are delivered weekdays including holidays by volunteers and 17% of the clients receive them live in Queensbury. For home delivered meals the other program, the meals are prepared through us at a central meal site which is the _ First Baptist Church...some seniors eat the meals at the site and in addition to that a hundred meals daily are delivered by volunteers to seniors in their homes. Forty percent of those meals, each week day are delivered to Queensbury residents. Queensbury is -- growing and the senior citizens population is growing and the need for the service will continue to grow. As it is now at a hundred meals a day we need additional staff hours to administer the program and to continue to meet the needs in our community of our seniors in Queensbury, we would really like and need financial support from Queensbury. The amount of money we are requesting is not that much, $2500.00 but to us it does have a significant impact. My husband and I chose to live in Queensbury, we think it is a great place to live and we appreciate the quality of life here and I think the quality of life in Queensbury is important to each of us. By providing the service, delivering meals to home bound seniors, that is enhancing the quality of life for the seniors. They can remain independent in their own homes, they get healthy nutritious hot meals daily and a daily personal contact is made with the volunteer. We are helping to keep these people independent for as long as possible and preventing some of the major problems the elderly face, isolation, poor nutrition and even hunger, a need for help care facility and we are giving them peace of mind and some contentment within their own homes. What we are preventing is as important is what we are providing. The quality of life is also enhanced for our volunteers, 34% who live in Queensbury and most of who are senior citizens themselves. They are helping other individuals, they are helping their their town, they have sense of purpose and meaning to their lives and they are part of a sharing, caring community and all of us benefit from the programs and activities because they make Queensbury a better place to live. We hope you will look favorably upon our request and we will answer any questions you may have. SUPERVISOR WALTER-Noted that she received a letter on the 29th of October from Mrs. Robertson regarding meals on wheels. COUNCILMAN BORGOS-Commended the use of volunteers in both the Meals on Wheels program and the Big Brothers and Sisters program. It does make the community a better place to live and keeps the cost under control...sometimes we forget they are volunteers, and as you mentioned senior citizens driving and delivering those meals everyday. It is very important that you call it to our attention. RITA RATH-I am the director of VAC and I would just like to make a few comments in addition to what Debbie has already said. I realize that you have said that you don't support special interest groups but you might want to consider looking at non-profit organizations that provide services to the Town of Queensbury, not so much as a special interest group. We are part of what is going on in our society and in our community. The services that we provide are real...without those services the quality of life would diminish in Queensbury and in all the other areas. I think that it might be time to look at us differently. I know that both the City of Glens Falls and evidently the Town Board here in Queensbury have separated now, the Chapman, the Hyde and the Crandall from the grouping of non-profits, however, I would like to point this out to you that non-profits have also become more sophisticated and have been brought up to the 1980's in that we are not funded for just general purposes...in other words we have been made to become more responsible and we have to document our services and prove what it is we are doing. Most of our funding then is specific funding, so we are fortunate that we have been able to contract with -y specific funding for specific services...however the meal program is not funded by any specific contractor so to speak. We do receive funding from the Office for the Aging and that is specifically to reimburse the volunteers for their mileage. We are part of the United Way which is a very small portion of the budget, what has happened to the mobile meal program and why we pointed out the services that you are now receiving in Queensbury is that...when we first started in the program we only needed one volunteer a day now we need nine volunteers a day, totally twenty volunteers a day, we do not have the money to pay for that administrative person who is absolutely necessary to Coordinate this whole program. No longer is it just a situation where a woman who does have time on her hands comes in and provides a good deed, this is a highly skilled person that we need and we have not been able to obtain that position under the restrictive monies that we have for salaries. We are really specifically asking for is twenty-five 41 hundred dollars that we can give the administrator of this program a decent salary—right now she is receiving for thirty-two hours a week, that job is a fifty hour a week job, so what we would like to do is at least increase it to a forty-hour a week job so that she doesn't have to put in as m4ich time on a volunteer basis...because as you know as a business experience you have a complete turnover of a staff, it only leaves frustration, not only for the administrator of the agency but for the client and the volunteers. I don't know the additional cost it would take to provide this service if we didn't use volunteers, so you have to keep that in consideration to, that because we do use volunteers this service is provided at an extremely low cost...so I really do think that as Queensbury governmental people you have to look at the services you are receiving from these nonprofit agencies. These services may stop if we can't be paid to provide them, it is similar to services of plowing your roads, they just don't happen these services have to be paid for. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-The problem with it is that everybody that has specific organization work believes that their organization does the best job. RITA RATH-I am not saying that our organization does the best job but what our organization is doing is providing services for the residents of Queensbury, we can't do it on no money. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-You are asking for governmental support, you are risking the danger of a certain amount of governmental control. RITA RATH-You can put out guide lines., you can have us document the services that we provide. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Anytime you ask the government for money there is a danger there, from the government saying that we have to account for this money for the taxpayer, therefore we have to put these conditions on it. RITA RATH-Well, you can put conditions on receiving monthly reports, annual report, if you want to see what your money is doing, we can show you. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-There are always some new organizations looking for money. RITA RATH-These are not new organizations...I really wish you wouldn't look at it that way, you've got to see what service these organizations are providing to,those recipients I MR. PAUL HILLMAN-Cleverdale, New York, said he was surprised not to see more people out regarding the budget business and to see where their money goes. All the work that your town committee does for the people of the town, just like these people coming in, and you have to weigh out everything they say, good or bad, for the town and the whole community...and one of the things that bothers me is that I think you people on this board are working for about two dollars an hour. I don't think you get enough pay for what you are doing because you get calls three o'clock in the morning or in the afternoon...twenty-four hours a day. I think that you ought to raise your salaries up to about seventy-five hundred dollars a piece per year so that you going to get paid for the work you are doing. Perhaps if you can't put it in this year, you can for next year, you've got really good qualified people on our Board and everybody in the town ought to realize that. SUPERVISOR WALTER-Stated that the salaries are published as required by law and cannot be raised, they can be adjusted lower but can't be raised. MR. PAUL HIiLMAN-Noted that good salaries have to be paid in order to get good people to run for offices. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-I just wanted to get back to Big Brothers and Sister...I commend your group...my son is a freshman and a few years ago was a member of Big Brothers and Big Sisters at Colegate University and it was an extremely warm year for him. He had a little guy to care for, he didn't spend any money but he brought the kid to the locker room with him during sports activities he was involved in and that boy got to see what it was like to be with a group of guys. It was a very good experience for my son and I applaud you for your work. SUPERVISOR WALTER-I would like to for the record...say the we also received letters from the Hyde Collection to be included in the budget for $25,000.00 from Mr. Roger Hague; from Rhoda Henry, the coordinate the illiteracy volunteers, Glens Falls, asking for a contribution from the Town of Queensbury, no particular amount—also a letter from Chapman Museum, whose funding request for 1988 was $8600.00...from the Adirondack Chapter 79, Vietnam Veterans of America are asking for $4,000.00 and from the Greater Senior Citizens Center, are asking a minimum funding of $5,000.00 and that with the other two letters received form Volunteer Action Center and Big Brothers and Big Sisters 42, in addition to the library was those agencies and organization which have asked to be ifhcluded in the budget. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-As a Board Member one of the pitches I would suggest to any group coining before us is...don't let us just see you here at budget time,I think it is important...the Crandall Library has learned that better communication with us has helped their group so has the Chapman and the Hyde and I think...I like to see interim report reports.and I like to know what you are doing...its a good sales pitch, if it doesn't happen the first year, it may happen the second. Its frustrating just to get it once a year so if you can keep us posted, its helpful and you are in front of us to. COUNCILMAN BORGOS-Once again I would like to remind people that nobody has objected to the over spending this year and I would like to remind people that although it appears ? that the budget is very large this year, the impact for household is really very small I in terms of total dollars. Last year the typical household in Queensbury spent twenty-two dollars for the year in Queensbury taxes, that's a little bit for fire protection, central services, highways etc...even if that were to go up by a large percentage, even if it doubled .s it is still only twenty dollars a year or more. The Queensbury Town tax is approximately 1/30 of what the school tax will be, its a very, very small number in terms of dollars and cents. We are committed to trying to keep that number as small as possible. That might be one of the answers to the questions about the library funding, maybe the other communities pays a typical hundred fifty dollars a year or five hundred dollars a year for town services, I don't know, that might be an interesting comparison to look at the library expenditure percentage of the total taxes. Maybe its time for the citizen to say they want to spend a hundred dollars a year per household in town taxes. There is room to maneuver here without making a tremendous impact in terms of dollars from an individual. SUPERVISOR WALTER-There is a general fund where the general administrative expenses of the town, that is recreation, Legislative Board, the Supervisor, The Building, Planning all of those departments, assessments are taken, the highway and also the landfill and then the Town of Queensbury has nineteen special districts, most of the time people are asking, what is the tax rate...it is very different from the City of Glens Falls where the Mayor can stand up and say this is what our taxes were in 1986 and this is what all of the residents will plan on paying in 1987 or 88'...in the Town of Queensbury everyone pays the general fund tax, the highway tax, the landfill tax and also fire protection but then you might be serviced by one or two or none of the special districts. Last year 1 our fire tax was about $3.90 a thousand and that was the largest overall tax. Our town tax was $1.05...the Clendon Brook Water District, those people that live there paid $11.88 and if you lived in the Clendon Brook Water District and another lighting District plus the general town and fire, you would have one particular rate you would be paying a year...so I don't think we are avoiding the issue when we are saying we can't tell you what you are specifically going to pay. The only tax that I believe is set currently that will not change by any negotiations because contracts have been signed and the assessed value has been established is fire protection and that tax should in 1986 equated in our new reevaluated system to eight-three cents a thousand and next year with the increased building in the town, and with the increased spending it will go up only about three cents...that I can be sure of, but the other ones, the Board again is going to take all of your comments and requests under consideration and they will be looking to make some changes in the budget if they feel that they want to put more money in and the tax payers can withstand it or if they wish to reduce it. We still have not received one of the larger expenditures in the town, the estimate for our insurance for next year...that is one big item, the tax on water, highway, landfill and will make some changes in those budgets. Hopefully we will have leveled off on insurance and we will not be going up and that will be good news...but since those dollars are pretty large we have to sit back and wait for those...I anticipated to get those about the 12th or 13th of November. Asked for further comments on the 1988 budget. COUNCILMAN KUROSAKA-Presented to the Crandall Library a check from is family. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-One of the last years businesses, as Mrs. Walter pointed out there was a five hundred thousand dollars applied to the taxes or applied to revenues anticipated sales tax increase. One of the things that help us make decisions for the kinds of groups that are before us today is the actual tax rate...if that anticipated sales --' revenue is greater than we budgeted last year and that gives us some leeway. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-I think George has really hit the nail on the head , that if a lot of people who can afford to, who use a lot of these services, would up their own personal contribution it would be better for the whole community and not think of government as the only support of these type of services and I realize that you do get support from the people individually but I think we make for a stronger community if we look for individual support and not rely strictly on government. We also have to remember that not everybody in Queensbury is not affluent and we talk of an increase here and increase there...to those of us it doesn't hurt too badly, but there are people in this town and I know them personally who are having all they can do to stretch their fixed income to cover what is happening to their expenses today. So please think of them when you suggest we keep adding and adding to the town taxes. MARK (UNKNOWN)-Chestnut Ridge Road-Our budget for volunteer Action Center is $144,500.00 and you don't cover that type of budget with donations...we will certainly accept all that we can but there are just not there...On page 22 of the Town budget, the line unallocated does this mean insurance? SUPERVISOR WALTER-In the Water Department, the Landfill and the Highway, they are all charged back for insurance, unallocated is for recreation, building and zoning and planning, all those people under the general administration in the town. All the insurance for all those departments is under one insurance code and we call it unallocated. MRS. ROBERTSON the idea of donations, every organization loves them, but we really can't run our budgets on them and when you look at Big Brothers-Big Sisters budget or our budget or the library budget, any of these groups we have an amazing melting of different organizations...all these things to contribute but they don't always meet cost...when people give money to our organization they don't see it as going to salaries either, they see it providing two turkeys for families who need it at Thanksgiving but thats' not how people giving money to our organization see it, they see it as a direct giving something to someone else which we are happy to administer and we do but that doesn't cover our budget. It seems that there is a philosophical difference between us and you and maybe thats' just because we are on this side and you on that side. SUPERVISOR WALTER-I do want to respond to that because we are you but there is a different prospective in looking at a total budget other than representing one particular interest. We are looking at services of nature of landfill, highway repair and maintenance, water, recreation and how it all impacts on the town and I think it is very comfortable to represent one organization or agency because then you can put your heart and soul into that...we have to divide our allegiance into all of these departments...We have a hard time in deciding who is going to get the increase this year because quite honestly their arguments are good as each of yours as far as running their department and they have to make their decisions based on the cost benefit ratio of a particular department in a given year, otherwise things could just get out of control very easily. MRS. ROBERTSON can see how you look at us coming to you and saying this can get out of control to, if we start funding one we have to fund other... and I realize that but it could be the time to start. COUNCILMAN MONTESI-Stated that the United Way faces the same kind of restraints the Town Board does,it tends to be a situation where the Board sits in judgment of the groups coming in and which one is going to get the bigger share...I sat on the Board of Directors at the YMCA for six years and United Way was very generous to the Y...The United Way serves one of the purposes that some of the towns can't. MRS. ROBERTSON, we get funding from United Way but its not enough...we need more money to run our organization and to serve the needs of the people. We get money from Glens Falls, and some other towns and think its time for Queensbury to look long and hard. MRS. BURRELL-Lynnfield Drive, I wonder with our tax forms if we do something that would be comparable to the state tax idea of give a gift to wild life... SUPERVISOR WALTER-It is an excellent idea and we can look into the legality of it The towns do not have tax empower, but if we are looking fora little box for donations that could be legal. Noted that the town tax was set by the County of Warren but property tax are everywhere its just that we cannot add additional...we do not have the authority to add a sales tax in our town as the city might be able to do. JEFFREY KELLY-Referring to.insurance skyrocketing in the municipalities...thats' another area we get hit in also, it seems that insurance payment that we have to make is non-reimbursable by agencies that we get funding from...we as Director on the Board of Big Brothers, Big Sisters have to make people judgments and judgments as to character of individuals, we do not want to have someone that is not a responsible person be matched up with one of these children...there is an insurance that covers that and would cost our organization somewhere in the neighborhood of $900.00 we do not have that...because we don't feel we can afford that in our budget so we are personally on the line for that—if we should mess up we are held personally liable for it. I hate to think of what that can do to me but there is a need there and we are that dedicated to it and I want you to understand 44 that...its another point of why we need money. RITA RATH-If the services that some of these agencies are provided are the non-profits. If all the services that are provided by the nonprofit agencies that are in existence right now, if they stopped providing those services to the Queensbury residents, you would really notice, and I really think that may be a possibility...I think non-profits are going to have to become more sophisticated and not provide services that they are not being paid to perform...its gotten to that point that we have raised our consciousness to and we have become more business and more professional like...it doesn't make any sense to provide services that you are not being paid for. SUPERVISOR WALTER-Asked if they were funded from Warren County? RITA RATH-We received $5,000.00 from the Alternative Sentence Program. SUPERVISOR WALTER-Queensbury pays about 38% of the Warren County budget. RITA RATH-I understand that rational but that five thousand dollars is earmarked for the Alternative Sentence Program so 38% of whatever your portion of that five thousand dollars is coming back to us to place clients in Community service but those Warren County dollars do not come back to us to help us to deliver those services, of the meal program to the residents or to perform the services that we perform or the holiday baskets. There is no money administratively to provide that service of holiday baskets...all of the money that we receive goes into the food baskets. At some point people just run out of energy, burn out is not just a'term, burn out is reality...We can't just keep providing free services and if you look at the residents of Queensbury and look at the services that your residents are receiving and just think of them not receiving any services then maybe you will be able to find some money in your budget to keep those services going. COUNCILMAN MONAHAN-Asked what support these groups get from the local merchants...said that she had read that if every church in the United States took on two families we could do away with the whole welfare system and the money would be much better administered too...because churches are noted for getting every penny out of their dollar. BILL MONTGOMERY-Stated that his church does take in a couple of families every year. I think the churches contribute to the community very much in the same fashion that these organizations do...Big Brother, Big Sisters at this time do not receive any funding from the area churches but with regard to the statement that the Town of Queensbury through participating with the County of Warren...it provides a very minimal level of service so although the Town of Queensbury does contribute to Big Brothers and Big --- Sisters program indirectly through the County, what we are talking about is a level of service that exceeds that which is funded by the county monies. SUPERVISOR WALTER-The point is that people should be aware that Queensbury does support the Warren County budget and you are looking for additional monies from residents in the Town of Queenbury...thats' what we are talking about tonight...I don't want to give the impression that Queensbury tax payers don't contribute anything because they do. Asked if they had approached Warren County for additional money and also do you have Big Brothers and Big Sisters in Lake George or any other Community? BILL MONTGOMERY-We do, we do get support from Warren and Washington Counties...The Town of Cambridge sends us $200.00, Whitehall send us a couple of hundred dollars, the Village of Hudson Falls also send some dollars, the City of Glens Falls and the Town of Queensbury are the two areas that the Big Brothers and Big Sisters predominately serve and Glens Falls realizes that if Big Brothers and Big Sisters were to provide a level of services based upon Glens Falls participation of Warren County Budget we perhaps we would fund or service fifteen children in the City of Glens Falls we service many more...so what the city has done is kick in additional monies to supplement the monies from Warren County. What we are trying to tell the Town of Queensbury is that in addition to the fifteen we have another fifteen or twenty that we are funding at our own cost and so Warren County, yes, represents a portion of the cost that are spent in Queensbury...it represents not the full portion. The City of Glens Falls has realized this for a period of ten years, they provide us with free room, free building, free maintenance, in addition they have kicked in up until last year, $3500.00 a year. A year ago the number of matches between Queensbury and the City of Glens Falls were quite close, last year because of ' the financial problems, the city has had, we had to cut our budget by 50%...we went from $3000.00 to $1500.00 and that is the result of the financial plight that the city is in right now...but we are committed to these services and we are looking to expand the services because with the increase growth in the area, the demand we have to meet increases...so yes Queensbury does contribute, does participate the funding of Big Brothers and Big Sisters indirectly through the County but that is at a bare minimum level. We account to the County on an annual basis and it is a very detailed accounting...so if you want 45. to give us $5000.00 of ear marked funding we will spend it as it is earmarked. SUPERVISOR WALTER-In a tentative schedule that I have presented to the Board I was hoping that we could adopt the budget at our regular meeting but because insurance won't be in, I am hopeful that the Board will be willing to meet at another special meeting. Asked the Board if they could make it at 4:30 P.M. in the afternoon on the 19th of November, so as not to conflict with the Planning Board meeting. Asked for further comment on the 1988 budget, hearing none the Public Hearing closed: 9:00 P.M. RECESS: 9:00 P.M. RECONVENE: 9:15 P.M. Ltr., from Robert T. Westcott Chairman Queensbury Fire Study Comm. regarding fire — apparatus on file. RESOLUTION TO APPROVE PURCHASE OF A HAHN PUMPER RESOLUTION NO. 340, Introduced by Mr. Stephen Borgos who moved for its adoption seconded by Mr. George Kurosaka. porbilos RESOLVED-That the Town Board of the Town of Queensburythe purchase of a 1500 gallon Hahn Pumper to be built by Garrison Fire Apparatus, for the Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Company. Duly adopted by the following vote: Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mr. Borgos, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mrs. Walter Noes: None Absent: None DISCUSSION-Chief DiCiccio of the Bay Ridge Fire Co. has spoken with members of the Town Board...they will be looking for an increase in their contract and they hope to have this new equipment paid off in four to five years. ON MOTION THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED DARLEEN DOUGHER, TOWN CLERK, TOWN OF QUEENSBURY