2009.10.21
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 21, 2009
INDEX
Area Variance No. 52-2009 Michael Arnold 1.
Tax Map No. 226.15-1-16
Area Variance No. 54-2009 James White 7.
Tax Map No. 227.17-2-9
Area Variance No. 55-2009 Randy Ryther 12.
Tax Map No. 308.12-1-21
Area Variance No. 56-2009 Beverly Tucker 16.
Tax Map No. 309.14-1-17
Area Variance No. 57-2009 Steven Quirion 20.
Tax Map No. 296.14-1-29
Area Variance No. 58-2009 Shannon Stockwell 26.
Tax Map No. 295.14-1-27.2
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
0
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 21, 2009
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
JAMES UNDERWOOD, CHAIRMAN
ROY URRICO, SECRETARY
JOYCE HUNT
RICHARD GARRAND
JOAN JENKIN
BRIAN CLEMENTS
MEMBERS ABSENT
GEORGE DRELLOS
LAND USE PLANNER-KEITH OBORNE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I’m going to call the October 21, 2009 meeting of the
Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals to order, and starting out I want to quickly go
through our procedures, once again, for anybody that perhaps is new here. As we
handle each application I’ll call the application by name and number. The secretary will
read the pertinent parts of the application, Staff Notes and Warren County Planning
Board decision if applicable into the record. Then we’ll ask the applicant to present any
information they wish to present to the Board. The Board will ask questions of the
applicant, and then we’ll open the public hearing. The public hearing’s intended to help
us gather information and understand it about the issue at hand, and it functions to help
the Board members make a wise decision, but it does not make the decision for the
Board members. There will be a five minute limit on all speakers. We will allow
speakers to speak again after everybody’s had a chance to speak, but not for more than
three minutes, and only if after listening to the other speakers, a speaker believes that
they have new information to present, and, Board members, I’d suggest that because we
have the five minute limit that we not interrupt the speaker with questions while they’re
speaking. Rather we should wait until the speaker has finished his five minute period
and then ask the questions. Following all the speakers, we’ll read in any
correspondence into the record, and then the applicant will have an opportunity to react
and respond to the public comment. Board members will then discuss the variance
request with the applicant. Following that, the Board members will have a chance to
explain their positions on the application, and then the public hearing will be closed or left
open depending on the situation, and finally, if appropriate a motion to approve or
disapprove will follow. It looks like we don’t have our alternates here tonight. So we’re
going to be one short.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 52-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II MICHAEL ARNOLD OWNER(S):
ANITA ROSS ZONING: WR LOCATION: 108 LAKE PARKWAY – CLEVERDALE
APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 625 SQ. FT. SECOND STORY
RESIDENTIAL ADDITION ABOVE EXISTING ATTACHED GARAGE. RELIEF
REQUESTED FROM THE EXPANSION OF A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE AND
EAST SIDE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. CROSS REF.: BP 2009-323; BP 85-574; SP
54-09, VARIANCE NO. 1010 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: OCTOBER 14, 2009
ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY: YES; LG CEA LOT SIZE: 0.33 ACRES TAX MAP
NO. 226.15-1-16 SECTION 179-13-010; 179-3-040
MICHAEL ARNOLD, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 52-2009, Michael Arnold, Meeting Date: October
21, 2009 “Project Location: 108 Lake Parkway – Cleverdale Description of Proposed
Project: Applicant proposes construction of a 625 sq. ft. second story bedroom addition
above existing attached garage.
1
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
Relief Required:
Applicant requests relief from the expansion of a non-conforming structure and east side
setback requirements of the WR zone.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated overall;
however, the property to the northeast will be most affected by this proposal as the
proposed expansion will be approximately 15 feet from the east property line.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. Due to the
limitations of the lot, there appears to be limited options by which to avoid an area
variance.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 5.1 feet or
25.5% relief from the 20 foot side setback for parcels with lot widths between 60 and
150 ft in the WR zone per §179-3-040 may be considered moderate relative to the
ordinance. The request for relief for the expansion of a non-conforming structure per
§179-13-010 may be considered moderate relative to the ordinance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.Minor impacts on the
physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty for the applicant may
not be self created due to the limitations of the lot relative to the proposal.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
SP 54-09 Residential addition Pending
BP 09-323 Residential addition Pending
BP 85-574 Garage Approved 10/8/85
Staff comments:
Note: Planning Board has made a recommendation to the ZBA concerning this Area
Variance. See attached recommendation.
This application requires site plan review for the expansion of a non-conforming structure
in a critical environmental area per §179-13-010G.
It appears the applicant is adding an additional bedroom above the garage. The
applicant will be required to prove wastewater compliance or upgrade the septic system.
SEQR Status:
Type II – no further review needed.”
“Warren County Planning Board Project Review and Referral Form October 14, 2009
Project Name: Arnold, Michael Owner(s): Anita Ross ID Number: QBY-09-AV-52
County Project#: Oct09- Current Zoning: WR Community: Queensbury Project
Description: Applicant proposes construction of a 625 sq. ft. second story residential
addition above existing attached garage. Relief requested from the expansion of a non-
conforming structure and east side setback requirements. Site Location: 108 Lake
Parkway, Assembly Point Tax Map Number(s): 226.15-1-16 Staff Notes: Area
Variance: The applicant proposes to construct a 625 sq. ft. second story addition over
an existing attached garage. Relief is requested from the following: expansion of a non
conforming structure; and side setbacks where 20 ft. is required and 14.9 ft. is proposed
for the new construction. The plans show the location of the addition, internal layout,
and elevation. The applicant explains the addition is raising the roof area on the existing
garage where all setbacks will remain the same no further encroachment is proposed.
Staff recommends no county impact based on the information submitted according to the
suggested review criteria of NYS General Municipal Law Section 239 L applied to the
2
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
proposed project. County Planning Board Recommendation: No County Impact”
Signed by Tim Lawson, Warren County Planning Board 10/14/09.
MR. URRICO-The following is the resolution for the recommendation to the Zoning
Board of Appeals for Area Variance No. 52-2009 and Site Plan No. 54-2009 for Mike
Arnold. “Whereas, the Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J
2 b. requires the Planning Board to provide a written recommendation to the Zoning
Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning Board of Appeals & Planning
Board approval; and
Whereas, this project does require both Zoning Board of Appeals & Planning Board
approval, the following recommendation is hereby provided to the Zoning Board of
Appeals; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the
relief request in the variance application as well as the potential impacts of this project on
the neighborhood and surrounding community, and
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 52-2009 AND SITE PLAN NO. 54-2009 MIKE ARNOLD,
Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
According to the resolution prepared by Staff. The first three paragraphs apply, and we
would like to go with Option Two:
The Planning Board, based on limited review, has identified the following area of
concern:
a.The Planning Board is concerned because of this property being located in a
Critical Environmental Area, whether the current septic system can handle the
increase in load of an additional bedroom. We’re most concerned with capacity
and functionality of the system.
th
Duly adopted this 20 day of October, 2009, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Traver,
Mr. Krebs, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Ford, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Hunsinger NOES: NONE”
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Do you want to fill us in then? Anything else you want to
add?
MR. ARNOLD-You covered most of it. As of last night’s meeting, we’re trying to get in
touch with the planning engineer, so that he can assess the septic. Basically Anita’s
daughter and son-in-law have moved in with them. They’re consolidating two
households. They just need some more room. That seemed to be the only way to do it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-The original renovations to that place took place about ’85 when
they upgraded the septic.
MR. ARNOLD-It was a new home in ’85.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, brand new. Yes. I had a question for you, Keith, because
obviously they added a garage later on, after that. From what I read in here it says
garage was approved on 10/8/85. I don’t know if that was part of the original deal with
the house or if it was all built at the same time, but was a variance needed for that
because of the setback on that, at the time? I don’t know, I mean, we don’t have any
history of it.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. There’s no Area Variance for that.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure, either it all went in as a building permit.
MR. OBORNE-It went in as a building permit, and/or did not require a setback,
depending on what the Zoning Code read then.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I guess amongst Board members, then, we have to decide
amongst ourselves. The septic issue seems pretty important here, but before I open up
the public hearing and see what the public has to say on it, that’s probably something
that we should consider before we render any decision, if we render a decision this
evening, in regards to the project. So I think maybe what we’ll do is do you guys have
any questions right now? I mean, other than the fact that it’s going to be adding space
3
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
above what’s already a building there, and in the past we’ve dealt with these on pretty
many other occasions, gotten through the process, but I think the only hang up we’re
looking at really is the septic capacity. If they’re going to add that extra bedroom and
they don’t have the capacity, we don’t know if the site has enough room to add more
laterals and add on to the present septic system.
MRS. JENKIN-I just wanted one clarification. The story that you’re going to be adding,
that will be wider than the existing garage, two feet wider, so there’ll be an overhang
now?
MR. ARNOLD-There’s an existing overhang over the entrance now. We are going to
cantilever into that two feet, but it’s now four feet. So it’s actually two feet wider than the
footprint of the garage, but it already cantilevers four feet over the walkway into the front
door.
MRS. JENKIN-I see. Okay.
MR. ARNOLD-I mean, that part exists. We’re just going to cut into it.
MRS. JENKIN-And make it two feet larger than wider. Just for more space.
MR. CLEMENTS-And that addition also includes a bathroom, as I see here.
MR. ARNOLD-The only way to get to that space is through an existing half bath. So we
were just going to take that out and put the stairs through there and put the bath upstairs.
MR. CLEMENTS-Okay.
MRS. JENKIN-So you’re putting stairs where the half bath is now.
MR. ARNOLD-Yes. It’s kind of a split level home. There’s several levels, but the main
staircase would spiral up into that space over the garage, if the half bath weren’t in the
way, and that’s the only way to access it, so that’s where the stairs would be is in place
of the existing bathroom.
MRS. JENKIN-So then you’ll have two full baths in the house, rather than a bath and a
half?
MR. ARNOLD-There’d be three.
MRS. JENKIN-Three.
MR. ARNOLD-There’s one on the ground floor, one on the main floor, and there would
be, the half bath would turn into a full bath upstairs. That’s our proposal.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay.
MR. URRICO-So how many baths will you have?
MR. ARNOLD-Three, well, right now it’s two and a half.
MR. URRICO-And how many will you end up with?
MR. ARNOLD-Three full ones.
MR. URRICO-Are you planning to upgrade the septic system to handle the additional?
MR. ARNOLD-I understand we have to if it doesn’t comply. Right now I know it’s an
engineered system. It’s relatively up to date. I don’t know if it’s large enough. We’re
going to have an engineer look at it. I think that’s our only option is to upgrade it if that’s
possible.
MR. GARRAND-Quick question. Is the engineer also going to look at the stormwater
mitigation for the water coming off the roof towards the septic?
MR. ARNOLD-I haven’t mentioned it, but, I mean, nothing changes. We’re still using the
same pitch.
4
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. GARRAND-I was just concerned about where the garage is moving, expanding a
little bit, that roof line.
MR. ARNOLD-It actually doesn’t. If you, on the right side of the picture of the garage,
there’s an overhang. We’re stepping out two feet from the corner of the house, onto the
overhang. So the overhang is exactly the same, and we’re just going straight up two feet
to the right of the existing corner.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Any other questions from you guys at this time? Okay. I think I’ll
open the public hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter, raise
your hand, please. Do you want to come up, please.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
KATHY BOZONY
MS. BOZONY-Good evening, Kathy Bozony from the office of the Lake George Water
Keeper. A couple of questions, when I reviewed the file, I could not find out how many
bedrooms are existing right now. There were no details of anything, but it seemed like
the second floor, which was going to go into the new great room area, had a bedroom,
but I don’t know what was in what was called the basement.
MR. UNDERWOOD-The Planning Board minutes basically, and you can answer this
question, too. I think the Planning Board minutes pretty much are calling it a four
bedroom as it exists now. So there was some question as to whether.
MR. OBORNE-It’s a three bedroom now.
MR. UNDERWOOD-It’s a three bedroom as it exists, but there was a little bit of question
as to whether it was three or four, and if it was going to be five when this was completed.
So I think it’s a little bit of, that was their concern that it be looked at the capacity of the
whole thing, as the end result whether there was enough capacity in the septic to handle
it.
MR. ARNOLD-Okay. This is the ground floor. No, this is the main floor. This is one
bedroom on the main floor, and then the basement there is two small bedrooms.
MR. UNDERWOOD-It says it is classified as a three bedroom at the present time on the
tax rolls.
MS. BOZONY-So the on site wastewater treatment was designed in 1985 for three
bedrooms?
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes.
MS. BOZONY-Okay. The other thing, I didn’t see a FAR calculation there. I saw the
proposed FAR at 3121, but I didn’t actually see the detail of the first and second floor and
the garage and that detail. I don’t know if that’s critical or not. It is just .33 acres.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I don’t think it’s over 22, is it, Keith?
MS. BOZONY-Or 3238 is allowed, I believe, and it’s coming in at 3121. So I was just
curious if that calculation had actually been detailed, and the other thing is, I don’t know
what the shoreline looks like, but, and I know it’s not your purview to actually require
shoreline buffering and fertilizer restriction and all, but it looks like there’s (lost word). I
do not know, but that, I would ask that that be conditioned.
MR. ARNOLD-It’s riprap, I believe, that’s all around the.
MR. OBORNE-That would be a Site Plan issue, at this point. Certainly not a ZBA issue.
MS. BOZONY-Yes. Okay. Good. Again, I wouldn’t support riprap only without
vegetation because of infiltration and treatment, and if you want more information, we
can certainly supply it. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else from the public wishing to speak on the
matter? Any correspondence, Roy?
5
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. URRICO-Yes. There is one public comment. A letter. “We are Pamela Lester
Golde and Robert Golde, the neighbor directly south of Anita Ross. We extend our
apologies for not being able to attend the Planning Board and Zoning Board of Appeals
meetings for the above-mentioned project, and would appreciate if our comments would
be read into the record. It is our understanding the Ross/Arnold’s would like to expand
the garage by adding a second story to its current footprint. For this request, we do not
have a concern or an objection; however, our concerns lie with any need to disturb
and/or expand the current septic system. Our home, 110 Lake Parkway, has been in my
family, the Lester Family, since 1960. At that time, the Ross/Arnold property was an
empty parcel. Their present home was not built until the early to mid 1980’s, which also
included the current septic system. The system lies between their house and our side
property line. Due to the system’s proximity to this property line, the original system’s
construction affected mature vegetation existing on the edge of our property. Originally,
there were four large Sugar Maples, only the western two remain. Over the years, we
have replanted trees, and trees have also seeded themselves in creating an effective
buffer between the two houses. It is our concern that with the addition to their home it
will require an expansion/upgrade of the septic system, again impacting our trees. we
would request that any expansion/upgrade to their septic system protect and minimize
any disturbance to the root zone area of the Sugar Maples, Hemlocks, and Spruces
occurring along this joint property line. Thank you for this consideration. We remain,
Pamela Lester Golde Robert Golde”
MR. UNDERWOOD-Thanks. Okay. Any comments you want to make at all, as to the
concerns?
MR. ARNOLD-We will have an engineer look at it and see what the options are. It
should be a fairly unobtrusive upgrade.
MR. UNDERWOOD-It’s not an Eljen System or anything? It was a raised bed from ’85?
Yes.
MR. ARNOLD-Yes, to my knowledge.
MR. UNDERWOOD-What do you guys want to do? Do you want to hold off? Do you
want to do this now?
MRS. JENKIN-We probably should table.
MR. CLEMENTS-I’d like to hear about what the septic system is, problem, before I would
vote on anything.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I think that in the past, you know, we’ve had numerous requests for
additions on, and, you know, usually the Board has, you know, grants those in most
cases, but I think in this case here, I think due to the fact that we’re, the issue is the
capacity of the septic and, you know, whether it can fit in there as necessary, if you’ve
got to add laterals in or anything like that, along the property line there. The neighbors
that are going to be effected to the south there did have some concerns about
preservation of the trees and how much hacking and digging was going to occur there at
the time, and I don’t know if it would lead to a complete re-design, you know, with an
above grade Eljen System which wouldn’t impact digging into the ground so far, because
those are above grade. I think, too, the issues that the Water Keeper raised there about
the forefront of the property there. If you’re going to increase substantially the amount of
wastewater that’s going in the ground there, you are in pretty close proximity to where
you draw your drinking water from, and everybody else up on that area up there draws
water from the lake at the same time, too, so I think that’s a concern, because you’re
looking at about an 80 foot setback from the water there, which seems adequate, but it
does slope to the water, and with the lack of vegetation there, I think that’s a concern that
maybe we might require you to add some vegetation down on the foreshore as has been
recommended in the new Comprehensive Land Use Plan that the Town adopted this
year.
MRS. JENKIN-The one thing, too. Are the Sugar Maples on your property?
MR. ARNOLD-I couldn’t say. I don’t recall that there are any, but.
MR. UNDERWOOD-It doesn’t look like it. It looks like they’re right on the line.
MR. ARNOLD-Yes. There is a grove between the two, our houses, that follows the line,
but.
6
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MRS. JENKIN-Okay.
MR. ARNOLD-I’d have to look and see. They surveyed it about a month ago. So I could
tell.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Why don’t we do this. Because, in lieu of the fact, just so they have
an idea of where we’re headed with this. If the septic passes muster, if they have the
capacity to add on if necessary, without doing any major disturbance there, would you
guys have a problem with it? Do you want me to poll you now, just so they have an idea
of where you’re going or whether you think it’s reasonable?
MRS. JENKIN-Well, my concern would be, if they have to expand the septic system of
how much disturbance it would be to the side yard, and to the trees and everything. I
would like to know that. If there was no disturbance, and everything was maintained as it
is now, then I wouldn’t have a problem really.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Because it is floor area compliant, as far as the size of the house. It
fits with what we require.
MRS. JENKIN-Right.
MR. UNDERWOOD-And, so, do you guys want to just table it, then, for that information?
And if you do come back at that point I think it would be a pretty quick, you know,
whatever it occurs. If it’s the green light, then we would probably approve it, with some
conditions.
MR. OBORNE-If you could table them to a December meeting, a specific December
meeting.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. Do you want to go to the first December meeting, then? I
mean, I’m sure the information will be in by then.
MR. ARNOLD-I hope to have it in a week or so.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 52-2009 MICHAEL ARNOLD, Introduced
by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
108 Lake Parkway – Assembly Point. Tabled to the first meeting in December, pending
the outcome of whatever happens with the Planning Board in regards to the wastewater
plan for this.
st
Duly adopted this 21 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Clements, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Jenkin,
Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Drellos
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 54-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II JAMES WHITE AGENT(S): ETHAN
HALL, RUCINSKI HALL ARCHITECTURE OWNER(S): JAMES WHITE ZONING: WR
LOCATION: 104 SEELEY ROAD – CLEVERDALE APPLICANT PROPOSES
EXPANSION OF EXISTING GARAGE TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL VEHICLE BAY AND
OVERHEAD STORAGE. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM THE EXPANSION OF A NON-
CONFORMING STRUCTURE AND HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS OF THE WR ZONE.
CROSS REF.: SP 53-09; BP 2002-543 SEPTIC ALT. WARREN COUNTY PLANNING:
OCTOBER 14, 2009 ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY: YES, LG CEA LOT SIZE: 1.34
ACRES TAX MAP NO. 227.17-2-9 SECTION: 179-13-010; 179-3-040
ETHAN HALL, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I’m recusing myself from this one. So, Rich, take over.
7
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 54-2009, James White, Meeting Date: October 21,
2009 “Project Location: 104 Seeley Road – Cleverdale Description of Proposed Project:
Applicant proposes expansion of existing 480 square foot garage to a 1080 square foot
garage in order to provide additional vehicle bay and overhead storage as part of an
overall renovation and expansion of existing single family residence.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests 6’ feet of relief from the 16 foot height restriction for accessory
structures in the WR zone per §179-3-040
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the character of the neighborhood may be
anticipated as a result of granting this area variance.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The proposed
design appears to preclude any feasible method by which to avoid a height variance.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 6 feet or 37.5%
relief from the 16 foot maximum allowable height for accessory structures in the
Waterfront Residential zone per §179-3-040 may be considered moderate relative to
the ordinance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.Minor impacts on the
physical and environmental conditions of the neighborhood may be anticipated
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
SP 53-09 Pending
BP 02-543 Septic alt.
Staff comments:
Note: Planning Board has made a recommendation to the ZBA concerning this Area
Variance. See attached recommendation.
This application requires site plan review for the expansion of a non-conforming structure
in a critical environmental area per §179-13-010G.
The applicant states that the existing temporary storage structures will be removed upon
completion of the garage expansion.
SEQR Status:
Type II – no further review needed”
“Warren County Planning Board Project Review and Referral Form October 14, 2009
Project Name: White, James Owner(s): James White ID Number: QBY-09-AV-54
County Project#: Oct09-28 Current Zoning: WR Community: Queensbury Project
Description: Applicant proposes expansion of existing garage to provide additional
vehicle bay and overhead storage. Relief requested from the expansion of a non-
conforming structure and height requirements of the WR zone. Site Location: 104
Seeley Road, Cleverdale Tax Map Number(s): 227.17-2-9 Staff Notes: Area Variance:
The applicant proposes to construct 592 sq. ft. addition to an existing garage for a
vehicle bay and overhead storage. Relief is requested for the following: the maximum
8
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
height allowed for a garage is 16 ft where 22 ft 10 in is proposed; and alteration to a non
conforming structure. The plans show the location and addition of the garage space.
The applicant explains the existing garage does not meet the height requirement but the
garage look will be consistent with the house. The applicant also explains the height is
needed for storage as the existing house is built on slab and there is no basement for
storage. The applicant does not desire to build a separate storage building only to add
on to the existing garage area. Staff recommends no county impact based on the
information submitted according to the suggested review criteria of NYS General
Municipal Law Section 239 L applied to the proposed project. County Planning Board
Recommendation: No County Impact” Signed by Tim Lawson, Warren County Planning
Board 10/14/09.
MR. URRICO-And as far as the resolution, there was a motion made, a
Recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for Area Variance No. 54-2009 and
Site Plan No. 53-2009, and the Planning Board, “based on a limited review has not
identified any significant adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated with the current
project proposal.” And it was adopted six to one on October 20, 2009.
MR. GARRAND-Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Staff, just before we begin, I’ve got a quick
question. Did we receive a deed with this application?
MR. OBORNE-You’d have to check your file. It should have been in with your
application. It certainly did have a deed with it.
MR. HALL-Yes.
MR. GARRAND-I didn’t get one in my packet.
MR. HALL-I think we only made one copy. I think there was only asked for one copy.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. I don’t know what happened there. I certainly vetted the deed.
MR. URRICO-There is a deed here.
MR. OBORNE-The applicant certainly does own the property.
MR. HALL-Roy, is it in there?
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. I just wanted to ensure that there’s no question about it. Also no
restrictions or anything on the property.
MR. URRICO-Do you want me to read all of this into the record?
MR. GARRAND-No. If you could just take a cursory look at it and just make sure there’s
no restrictions whatsoever on the property, that might have any bearing on this
application.
MR. URRICO-I can’t answer that question right away, but I’ll look through and I’ll let you
know.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. For the purpose of the record, please state your name.
MR. HALL-Good evening. My name is Ethan Hall. I’m a partner with Rucinski Hall
Architecture. With me tonight is Beth White, the owner of the property. I would like to
just clarify one thing that was read into the record, whether the Area Variance was
substantial. After we made our initial application, in talking with the Town’s Staff, it was
decided that since the 900 foot size of the garage had, or overall size, square footage,
had been allowed to be upgraded to 1100 square feet, that increased our area height
variance that we’re needing, and we’re looking for six foot ten inches of relief, and that
should have been updated in that outside piece, and that is in our project description
cover letter that was included with all your packages. As discussed, or as indicated on
the information that we provided, the Whites are planning to tear down an existing, part
of an existing two car garage, expand it to a three bay garage, and, Keith, I don’t know if
you have the picture of it. Right now it has like a peaked gable roof on it. The main
house itself has a gambrel style roof, and the intent for the new design is to be a gambrel
style roof over the garage, which would provide storage above the garage space. The
need for this storage, the existing residence is a slab on grade building and has no attic
9
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
or basement space. So there is no storage at all. They are moving up to the residence
full time from Saratoga and they need storage space. So that’s the main extent for the
need for this. The intent is to match the design of the roof to the design on the house so
that it kind of all flows together and becomes an aesthetically pleasing look. As far as
the stormwater mitigation that was talked about by the Planning Board, we have roof
gutters that are going to go to infiltrators in the ground, and the house itself has eaves
trenches around it that are going to accept all the roof water.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. Fellow Board members, any questions for the applicant?
MRS. JENKIN-Well, there’s one question. So you’re actually asking for six foot ten
inches of relief, rather than the six feet?
MR. HALL-Correct.
MRS. JENKIN-So we should probably note that in our motion.
MR. HALL-Yes. It was an update after we talked with Staff the last time.
MRS. JENKIN-Right.
MR. URRICO-Well, it seems like you’re restricted by the design that’s creating the need
for a height variance.
MR. HALL-Correct. The existing ridge is already 18 feet, and if we tried to expand to
cover the three bays, it would have gone way higher than the 22 10 that we’re looking.
MR. URRICO-Is there another design that may bring it lower, so you don’t need as
much?
MR. HALL-Not, any design that we went with was going to wind up being higher than
this. The gambrel actually drops us down as low as we can get and still maintain decent
head room in the storage area above the garage.
MR. GARRAND-And as you mentioned, it’s not going to be, no utilities in there, plumbing
or anything like that.
MR. HALL-There’s no plumbing in it. There will be electrical in it just for lights and
convenience outlets. It’s not insulated and it’s not a heated structure.
MR. GARRAND-Any other questions from Board members? With that I’ll open up the
public hearing. Is there anybody from the public that would like to comment on this Area
Variance?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. GARRAND-Nobody? Staff, any other input?
MR. OBORNE-The only input I have is that it wasn’t advertised as six foot ten inches. It
was advertised for height requirements. So as far as that goes, it’s fine. I don’t think
there’s any public input either.
MR. URRICO-There’s one letter.
MR. OBORNE-There is one letter.
MR. URRICO-I have it right here. It’s, “Please accept this as our advisement that a upon
receipt of notification and learning of the proposed changes that we are in favor of the
changes being made by Mr. White on his property. We support an approval by the
Zoning Board to grant the required relief as requested. Sincerely, Peter Bogert, Karen
Bogert” And they’re at 133 Seelye Road. That’s it.
MR. GARRAND-All right. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Board members, do you guys feel
comfortable with this?
MRS. JENKIN-Actually my comment I think that it’ll improve the property, because
having the same design as the house, it’ll look a lot better than what you have now.
Improvement is needed, and there was a comment about the outbuildings. You’re going
to remove any other?
10
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
BETH WHITE
MRS. WHITE-Right. All the temporary structures will be removed once the garage is
completed.
MR. GARRAND-I think it’s a nice piece of property. It’s one of the bigger lots up there,
much bigger than most in Cleverdale.
MRS. WHITE-It was the original farmhouse for the area.
MR. GARRAND-Yes, and it’s listed as Waterfront Residential. How far from the lake is it
actually?
MRS. WHITE-Well, we do have a dock, but.
MR. HALL-Four hundred plus feet.
MR. GARRAND-Yes, that’s what I was looking at, Waterfront Residential, I did a double
take.
MR. HALL-Yes, just because it’s on Cleverdale.
MRS. WHITE-Yes, it’s across the road, but anyway.
MRS. JENKIN-So you do have a dock on the lake.
MRS. WHITE-We do.
MR. HALL-Yes, they have dock rights.
MRS. JENKIN-Do you have neighbors there that live through the winter, too?
MRS. WHITE-We do. In fact, most of the neighbors around us are all year round, which
is great. Yes, we have a nice little community.
MRS. JENKIN-Welcome, welcome to the area.
MRS. WHITE-Thank you. Thanks.
MR. GARRAND-At this point, I’ll poll the Board members. Mr. Clements, would you like
to comment on this?
MR. CLEMENTS-I think that this is a good project. I would think that, since they have
no objections from any of your neighbors, and as I looked at it on the screen here, I don’t
think that that height is going to bother anybody. I don’t think it’ll be, produce any
undesirable change. I think it would be a desirable change. So I’d be in favor of this.
MR. GARRAND-Mrs. Jenkin?
MRS. JENKIN-Yes. I gave my opinion before. I think it will be definitely a desirable
change to the neighborhood, and it certainly doesn’t alter the character. It improves it,
and I would be in favor of the variance, granting a variance.
MR. GARRAND-Mr. Urrico?
MR. URRICO-I must say I’m not 100% in favor of it, but I’m mostly in favor of it. I think
the height variance is something I’m reluctant to agree to because it’s a relatively new
Ordinance, and I think we have to be very careful, when we start granting these, that
we’re not setting some sort of a precedent for down the road. That’s all I’m going to say,
but I’d be in favor of this particular project.
MR. GARRAND-Mrs. Hunt?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. I think it’ll be an attractive addition to the neighborhood, and I’m glad
the outbuildings will be going.
MRS. WHITE-Me, too.
11
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MRS. HUNT-And I think the height of, you’re not on the Waterfront. You won’t be
impacting anyone’s view, so I would have no problem with it.
MR. GARRAND-I’d have to agree with the other Board members. While I’m a little
reluctant on the height, in and of itself, this lot is, compared to everything else in
Cleverdale, is secluded. I think removal of the outbuildings is a definite advantage,
especially to an inflatable Quonset hut. I think it is inflatable. I have no objections to this
application. Would somebody like to make a motion?
MRS. HUNT-I’ll make a motion.
MR. GARRAND-I’ll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. OBORNE-Joyce, if you could, do say six foot ten inches.
MRS. HUNT-Yes, I have that. I don’t know what the percentage would be, but I won’t
mention that.
MR. OBORNE-Don’t worry about that.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 54-2009 JAMES WHITE, Introduced by
Joyce Hunt who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joan Jenkin:
104 Seeley Road - Cleverdale. The applicant proposes expansion of an existing 480
square foot garage to a 1,080 square foot garage in order to provide additional vehicle
bay and overhead storage as part of an overall renovation and expansion of an existing
single family residence. The applicant requests six feet ten inches of relief from the
sixteen foot height restriction for accessory structures in the WR zone per Section 179-
3-040. The criteria for granting this Area Variance. I don’t think there will be an
undesirable change in the neighborhood. In fact, I think I will be a desirable change.
There’ll be very minor impacts, and I think the fact that the outbuildings will be gone and
that the building will be more in keeping with itself is good. Whether the benefit could be
sought by the applicant in some other method. I don’t think so. it’s kind of difficult to
avoid the height variance with the design of the building. Whether the request is
substantial. I think it’s moderate relative to the Ordinance, and again, it’s a Waterfront
Residential, and this home is not on the waterfront. Whether the proposed variance will
have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions of the
neighborhood? I don’t think so. They’ll be minor, and the alleged difficulty only in that
the Whites want to improve the building and their property. So I propose we pass Area
Variance No. 54-2009.
st
Duly adopted this 21 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements, Mr. Garrand
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Drellos, Mr. Underwood
MR. HALL-Thank you very much.
MRS. WHITE-Thank you.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 55-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II RANDY E. RYTHER OWNER(S):
LARRY CLUTE ZONING: MDR LOCATION: EAST DRIVE APPLICANT PROPOSES
PLACEMENT OF A 50 FT. BY 14 FT. MANUFACTURED HOME WITH A 24 FT. 8 FT.
ADDITION ON A VACANT PARCEL. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM SIDE AND REAR
YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENTS OF THE MDR ZONE. CROSS REF.: TB RES.
NO. 289, 2009 REVOCABLE MH PERMIT WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: N/A LOT
SIZE: 0.15 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 308.12-1-21 SECTION: 179-3-040
LARRY CLUTE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 55-2009, Randy E. Ryther, Meeting Date: October
21, 2009 “Project Location: East Drive Description of Proposed Project: Applicant
12
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
proposes placement of a 14 ft. by 50 ft. manufactured home with a 8 ft. by 24 ft. addition
on a vacant parcel.
Relief Required:
Applicant requests 15 feet of north sideline setback relief from the 25 foot side setback
requirement per §179-3-040 for the Moderate Density Residential zone.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the character of the neighborhood may be
produced as many dwellings associated with parcels in the neighborhood are non-
compliant with regards to side setbacks.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The limitations of
the lot appear to eliminate any feasible method by which to avoid an area variance.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 15 feet or 60%
relief from the 25 foot side setback requirement per §179-3-040 may be considered
moderate to severe relative to the ordinance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.Minor impacts on the
physical and environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated as a
result of this request.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be attributed to lot
limitations.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
TB Resolution 289-09 Revocable Mobile Home permit Approved 9/14/09
Staff comments:
The applicant requested and received approval to place a proposed mobile home
outside of the mobile home overlay district from the Town Board on September 14, 2009
(see attached).
Type II
SEQR Status:
MR. URRICO-Do I need to read the Town Board resolution into the record?
MR. UNDERWOOD-No, I don’t think so. It’s not necessary. Do you guys want to fill us
in? I assume this is one of your smaller lots that you’re finally going to put something on
to?
MR. CLUTE-Yes. I’ve had the lot for a while, and prior to me it was a friend of mine’s,
and the lot essentially speaks for itself. They were pretty much cut up that way on East
street all the way through there. Most of them are all 60 by 100’s, with the intent of
single wide mobile homes when they were cut to that size. So, the condition of it, really,
there’s not any other really use.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So with it, in the change to the mixed residential, that negated that,
or would you have needed it anyway even with the old Code.
MR. CLUTE-Well, to be honest with you, previous it was Light Industrial.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, so it was even more.
MR. CLUTE-Yes, it was even more restrictive, which I don’t really quite understand how
it became Light Industrial, but I never much paid attention to it.
13
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I don’t know if they ever just intended that end of Town,
thinking that maybe some day if somebody bought the whole thing up or something.
MR. CLUTE-Exactly.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes.
MRS. JENKIN-Is that the property right there?
MR. CLUTE-Yes. The trailer, and these are Randy’s trailers. He was in there clearing
off some of the brush and stuff like that.
MRS. JENKIN-On the left?
MR. CLUTE-Yes. The telephone pole to the right of that little trailer is just roughly the
property line. You can just see a slight string. That’s the right property line.
MRS. JENKIN-I was just wondering about, if the property is treed, or not.
MR. CLUTE-There are a couple of, you can see it, there’s a couple of sizeable trees to
the back property line, but mostly it was brush. There wasn’t a lot of trees to the lot.
MRS. JENKIN-So you have to take those trees down?
MR. CLUTE-No, what you’re looking at right now, where the small trailer is, is, if
approved, is where the mobile home itself would be backed into. To the right of it you
can see the edge of the single wide. It’s going elongated on the road. Randy’s
proposing to go elongated on the lot instead of the road. So the depth of the trailer will
be going into the lot. So essentially right where you can see the drive lines is the line of
the new trailer, where the new trailer would be if approved.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay, because it’s 10 feet from that property line where the post is.
MR. CLUTE-Correct.
MRS. JENKIN-And the other homes are probably, is there 10 feet there?
MR. CLUTE-They’re pretty tight as well, throughout them, not just East Drive but West
Drive as well, because of a 60 by 100 foot lot. It’s very difficult to meet the setbacks.
MRS. JENKIN-Right.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I think in general, if you’re looking at the placement, it’s
probably more so you gain a little bit of yard, rather than setting it right in the center so
you’ve got like little alleyways on either side.
MRS. JENKIN-Well, with the septic you’d have to.
MR. CLUTE-Exactly. With the septic as well, you have to, which you can see on the plot
plan, you have to be able to access it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So you can pump it.
MRS. JENKIN-So this is a seepage pit. Would you explain that?
MR. CLUTE-Well, rather than leach lines, a drywell, is essentially what it is. It’s a cast
drywell, surrounded by blue stone. Just another method of doing a septic system. So a
typical septic system is a 1,000 gallon tank and then so many 50 foot lines. This
particular system, again, because of the restricted space, a 1,000 gallon tank and a
drywell. So now you’re not using, you don’t have to have so much yard available to do
all these lines.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay. Is it sand out there?
MR. CLUTE-Very much so.
MRS. JENKIN-Good drainage.
14
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. CLUTE-Absolutely.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you guys have any other questions? Okay. I’ll open the public
hearing up. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. UNDERWOOD-Any correspondence?
MR. URRICO-I do not see any correspondence.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Then I guess I’ll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. UNDERWOOD-And poll you guys to see what you think. Rich, do you want to go
first?
MR. GARRAND-Well, given the size of this lot, anything he puts there is going to require
an Area Variance. The lot’s only 60 feet wide. The Town Board doesn’t have a problem
with it. I don’t see any adverse impacts on the neighborhood either. So I’d be in favor of
it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. I have to agree. It’s only an 8 by 24 mobile home on a 60 foot lot, and
probably the best placement for it, and since the Town approved it, I have no problem.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. It is 14 by 50. That’s the addition that you’re looking at.
That’s like the porch. Kind of that extra section on the side. It’s 14 by 50, and then it’s 8
by 24, like a side addition on the side of the home.
MRS. HUNT-I’m looking at the wrong thing. Okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joan?
MRS. JENKIN-Yes. Certainly there’s not going to be an undesirable change in the
neighborhood, and considering the size of the lot, the request is not substantial. I think
it’ll probably improve the property as it stands now. So I wouldn’t, I’d be in favor of
granting a variance.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I have to agree with the rest of the Board. I think that it would be
desirable change. I don’t think it can be achieved by any other method because of the
lot size. So I’d be in favor of this also.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Roy?
MR. URRICO-I think the only concern I would have had would have been the district it’s
in. That’s already been approved. So I’m okay with it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I assume you’re just going to put it on, it’s going to have a cellar
under this one?
MR. CLUTE-No.
MR. UNDERWOOD-No. Just slab.
MR. CLUTE-Just slab.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Just to remind you guys, make sure you measure from the actual
property line, so we don’t get into that, you know, we won’t go there. In essence, I don’t
think that you could put anything else there more reasonable than this. It’s a reasonable
size home for the size of the lot, and you don’t want to put something small on there. I
think the double wides are, you know, even though this isn’t a double wide, it’s a
narrower one, but at the same time, it fits with the neighborhood and it’s an upgrade from
15
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
some of the other stuff down that way. So, I’d be all for it. So does somebody want to do
this one?
MR. GARRAND-I’ll do it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 55-2009 RANDY E. RYTHER,
Introduced by Richard Garrand who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
East Drive. The applicant proposes placement of a 14 foot by 50 foot manufactured
home with an eight foot by twenty-four foot addition on a vacant parcel. The applicant is
requesting 15 feet of north side line relief from the 25 foot setback requirement per
Section 179-3-040 for the moderate density residential zone. On the balancing test,
whether benefits can be achieved by other means feasible to the applicant. Given the lot
size, the benefits cannot be achieved by any other means feasible to the applicant. The
lot is very constrained. Will this variance produce an undesirable change in the
neighborhood or character to nearby properties? I think granting this variance, this
addition will match the character of the neighborhood, perhaps enhance it. This request
may be deemed substantial relative to the Ordinance, given that it’s 15 foot variance for
a 25 foot side line setback relief. Will this request have adverse physical or
environmental impact on the neighborhood? I don’t believe it will have any adverse
physical or environmental effect on the neighborhood. Is this difficulty self-created? The
applicant didn’t make the lot 60 feet wide. So I would deem this as not self-created. So I
would move we approve Area Variance No. 55-2009.
th
Duly adopted this 20 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Clements, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Drellos
MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re all set.
MR. CLUTE-Thank you.
RANDY RYTHER
MR. RYTHER-Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 56-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II BEVERLY TUCKER AGENT(S):
KENNETH TUCKER OWNER(S): BEVERLY TUCKER ZONING: NR LOCATION: 4
MURRAY AVENUE APPLICANT HAS CONSTRUCTED A 1,050 SQ. FT. SINGLE-
FAMILY DWELLING. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM FRONT SETBACK
REQUIREMENTS OF THE NR ZONE. CROSS REF.: BP 2008-592 WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING: OCTOBER 14, 2009 LOT SIZE: 0.17 ACRES TAX MAP NO.
309.14-1-17 SECTION: 179-3-040
KENNETH TUCKER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 56-2009, Beverly Tucker, Meeting Date: October
21, 2009 “Project Location: 4 Murray Avenue Description of Proposed Project:
Applicant has constructed a 1,050 sq. ft. single family dwelling on a 0.17 acre parcel in
south Queensbury.
Relief Required:
Applicant requests 5.5 feet of relief from the 20 foot front setback requirement per §179-
3-040 for the existing single family dwelling located in the Neighborhood Residential
zone.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
16
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as the
house appears to be consistent with the neighborhood.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. With the house
already constructed, the only feasible alternative would be to move the house 5.5
feet to the north in order to avoid an area variance.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 5.5 feet or
27.5% of relief from the 20 foot front setback requirement for the neighborhood
residential zone per §179-3-040 may be considered moderate relative to the
ordinance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts on the
physical and/or environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
C/O for BP 08-592 1,050 Single Family Dwelling On hold pending variance outcome
Staff comments:
The applicant states that the front setback was measured from the edge of Murray
Avenue and not the front property line. The house is setback from the road
approximately 30 feet but only 14.5 feet from the property line. The relief required is
measured from the enclosed porch on the front of the house to the front property line.
SEQR Status:
Type II – no further review needed”
“Warren County Planning Board Project Review and Referral Form October 14, 2009
Project Name: Tucker, Beverly Owner(s): Beverly Tucker ID Number: QBY-09-AV-56
County Project#: Oct09-27 Current Zoning: NR Community: Queensbury Project
Description: Applicant has constructed a 1,050 sq. ft. single-family dwelling. Relief
requested from front setback requirements of the NR zone. Site Location: 4 Murray
Avenue Tax Map Number(s): 309.14-1-17 Staff Notes: Area Variance: The applicant
requests approval of a constructed 1,050 sq. ft. house. Relief is requested for the
following: front setback where 30 ft. is required and 14.9 ft. is existing. The plans show
the location of the house on the lot. The applicant explains the house was constructed to
be consistent with neighboring houses where the house is about 30 ft. from the road -
just not the property line. Staff recommends no county impact based on the information
submitted according to the suggested review criteria of NYS General Municipal Law
Section 239 L applied to the proposed project. County Planning Board
Recommendation: No County Impact” Signed by Tim Lawson, Warren County Planning
Board 10/14/09.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Do you guys want to tell us? It seems to me we’ve, you
know, I’ll just make the comment, we’ve come up against these numerous times in Town,
and one of the suggestions that I made a long time ago was, that we never followed up
on, was that whatever new construction is undertaken in the Town, that when the
building permit is filed, that somebody who issues the building permit tells the people
who own the lot, your property line is setback blank number of feet from the pavement
line, and I think that that something’s that maybe would head a lot of these off at the
pass, so we didn’t have a recurrence of them, you know, continuously, until kingdom
come. I don’t know if that’s something you guys want to do as a Board, you know, or
make that recommendation, but, you know, it would relieve Staff from having to deal with
this and cut back on the number of these that we have. I don’t think in any instance that
we’ve previously done these, that we’ve made people move their homes, you know,
17
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
even though it’s been suggested that that people did it on purpose. I know that in
probably the bulk of the cases that we’ve had before us, nobody does this on purpose.
Everybody assumes they own out to the edge of the road, as I do with my house and
everybody else probably does with their home in Town, too, but I think it puts the onus on
you guys, you know, it makes you look like you’re the bad guys or something, and we
realize you’re not. So, you know, don’t feel like we’re here to beat you up or anything on
that. Anything you want to add? We’ll just ask you some questions.
MR. TUCKER-Originally I set the house six feet back. We hired a contractor who three
days later was on the news Superior Paving, I don’t know if you remember them. They
set us back a month. I finally got another contractor to come in and pour the forms. I
was at college all day. When I got home, he was supposed to set them. He had set
them, had them inspected and poured them. They were farther forward than I had set
them. I couldn’t measure well because the excavation was piled there, but I knew that,
from where I’d set my stakes, that I was still better than 30 feet back. Originally we were
going to put a front porch the whole length. When I realized that I was close, and it was,
could be a problem, we just put the breezeway instead of a full front porch across.
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I think we realize that, you know, like whoever purchases the
home, if it’s for sale, you know, they could also come in and ask for a variance to put a
porch on there, and, you know, down the road, that’s a possibility, too, but I think it’s
tough when you anticipate doing a home and then you think, gee, now we’ve got to
through a wrench in the works here by doing this. So we understand. It’s not like it’s.
MRS. JENKIN-Well, the thing I notice, too. It is set quite a bit farther forward than the
homes on either side of you, too.
MR. TUCKER-Well, the white house on the other side is my mother’s house. It is,
because her house is set all the way to the back of, you know, even though it’s front yard
is Murray. The green house on the other side, we are a little bit in front of, but not
excessively like, or a great amount like my parents’ house, but like I said, her house is
set to the back of her lot, and most of her yard is in the front, and like I said, the house
should have been six feet further back than where it is.
MRS. JENKIN-All right.
MR. OBORNE-And I will say, that’s difficult for Staff and the applicant if the contractor’s
not going to pull it off right.
MR. TUCKER-And it was halfway into December when he came. He thought he was
doing me a favor. It was snowing. It was just a nightmare job.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. Any other questions from you guys? All right. I guess what
I’ll do is I’ll open up the public hearing. Anybody here from the public wishing to speak
on the matter?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. UNDERWOOD-Have we got any commentary?
MR. URRICO-Yes. There’s notes from, I’m just going to read one. “I have no objection
to the house at 4 Murray Avenue, Queensbury, New York, as it is built on the property.”
And they all say the same thing, but it’s signed by it looks like 15 neighbors.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Good.
MR. URRICO-They’re all in the neighborhood.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure, within the immediate area. All right. If there’s nothing else,
then I’ll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I guess I’ll poll you guys for your commentary on this. I’ll start
with you, Joan.
MRS. JENKIN-Yes. I definitely think that your recommendation is important, that before
a building permit is issued and building happens, you really need to go and check it out.
Because it’s not fair to the property owners.
18
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I think there’s some question, because, you know, we end up
with like, if it’s a Town road or if it’s a dedicated road, you know, some of them are 30
feet back. Some are 20 feet. Is there a variability, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-Absolutely, but, I mean, I do say that when a building permit is generated,
the Zoning Administrator does vet that against the Zoning Code, and if it doesn’t make,
as drawn to the Zoning Code, then it’ll be kicked back and there’ll be a denial letter
generated. In this case, it was drawn compliant, set in the ground non compliant. So
there’s nothing we can do about that.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Right. Sure.
MRS. JENKIN-But there’s no check after that, there’s no check after the foundation is in?
MR. OBORNE-There obviously was a check, and maybe Randy could expand on that.
There must have been an as built survey?
MR. TUCKER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-That’s what happened was an as built survey was done.
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I think the only way to catch it would be like when you go out to
look at the footers, you know, like when they do the inspection, you know, they might
say, well, hey, it looked a little closer, you know, or, and I don’t know it they go out and
inspect the hole before you put everything in or they just come out after you’ve already
poured cement or not, but, you know, I don’t know how we’d head it off at the pass. Like
you say, there’s so many variables involved. We’ve had stakes get moved, you know,
people assumed the line was there.
MR. URRICO-Well, sometimes the middle of the road is not the middle of the road either.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Right. Sure.
MR. OBORNE-But I don’t want to dissuade you from making recommendation.
MR. URRICO-No, I understand. I think what we’re saying is it would be fair, much fairer
if we can head this off earlier, understanding that eventually the contractor could make a
mistake anyway.
MRS. JENKIN-Well, the thing is, too, it’s expensive to do this variance, to have to come
and get all these copies. It’s an expense that you shouldn’t have had.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I guess I’ll go to you, Roy, next.
MR. URRICO-Yes. I’m in favor of the application, basically for the reasons that we
talked about earlier. I think, whatever mistakes were made was an honest mistake. It
wasn’t, and it’s not going to affect the location of the house. I think it’s far enough back
from the road where it’s not going to be an issue anyway. So I’d be in favor of it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Rich?
MR. GARRAND-Well, in looking at an application like this, one of the things that I
consider what could have been gained by moving this house closer to the road in this
manner, and I don’t see anything that the applicant did maliciously to gain anything here.
I think it was an honest mistake, and I do support your recommendation.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. I do think it was an honest mistake, not something that was done
deliberately, and the fact that 15 of your neighbors have no objection, I would be in favor.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I’m never happy with variances after the fact, but I think there was no
malice intended here, and so I’d be in favor of the application.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I don’t have any problem with this one, either, but, you know, if
there was some means that we could, if we had a crystal ball on these, but I don’t think
19
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
we do. I mean, they happen occasionally. What I’m going to suggest to you guys is
pass down all these surveys. We’ll give them back to you, and whoever you sell the
house to, tell them to keep them, so when they want to come in and put their porch on,
they don’t have to go get new surveys and spend the extra money. So that way, you can
streamline the process. We’ll assume at some point somebody’s going to come in and
ask to do that. Does somebody want to do this one?
MRS. JENKIN-Sure, I’ll do it.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 56-2009 BEVERLY TUCKER,
Introduced by Joan Jenkin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brian Clements:
4 Murray Avenue. The applicant has constructed a 1,050 square foot single family
dwelling on a .17 acre parcel in South Queensbury. The applicant requests 5.5 feet of
relief from the 20 foot front setback requirement per Section 179-3-040 for the existing
single family dwelling located in the Neighborhood Residential zone. The criteria for
considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law has five criteria. In
making the determination the Board shall consider whether an undesirable change will
be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will
be created by the granting of the Area Variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood. In
fact, there’s probably no impact to the neighborhood, with the placement of the house
that is five feet closer than it should be. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can
be achieved by some method feasible for the applicant to pursue other than an Area
Variance. With the house already built, it would be very, very difficult to move the
existing home, almost impossible now, without major expense, and so there really can’t
be any other method that can be achieved, other than the Area Variance. Whether the
requested Area Variance is substantial, 27.5 feet of relief is not really considered
substantial, considering the neighborhood that it’s in. Whether the proposed variance
will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions of the
neighborhood or district. There’s probably no impact on the physical or environmental
conditions to this neighborhood. Whether the alleged difficulty is self-created. Probably
monitoring could have been done a little bit closer before the forms were put in, but it
was probably an honest mistake and I would not feel that this was self-created. So I
move to approve Area Variance No. 56-2009.
st
Duly adopted this 21 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Clements, Mr. Garrand, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Drellos
MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re all set.
MR. TUCKER-Thank you very much.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 57-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II STEVEN QUIRION OWNER(S):
STEVEN QUIRION ZONING: MDR LOCATION: 31 EDGEWOOD DRIVE –
EDGEWOOD PARK, SECTION 2 APPLICANT HAS CONSTRUCTED A POOL IN THE
SIDE YARD. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM THE REQUIREMENT THAT POOLS BE
ERECTED ONLY IN THE REAR YARD. CROSS REF.: BP 2007-159; BP 2003-074
WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: OCTOBER 14, 2009 LOT SIZE: 1.52 ACRES TAX
MAP NO. 296.14-1-29 SECTION: 179-5-020 C 2
STEVEN QUIRION, PRESENT
MR. URRICO-I’m also going to read in a letter that Mr. Quirion wrote to the Zoning
Board. “I am requesting a variance for our pool which has already been installed. I have
been told I need the variance, as the pool is located in the side yard. We chose to locate
the pool in the side yard for a number of reasons. The main reason being the shape of
our lot and the lay of the land. Even though our lot is 1.52 acres, it is only about 60 feet
from the back of the house to the rear property line and it slopes upward. The south side
(where the pool is located) is flat and level only to the pool. From there the land drops at
a very steep slope and continues to slope down to the south property line for
approximately 400 feet. Except for the areas next to our house, our lot is covered with a
very dense stand of trees, which we love. The trees also act as a very good screen for
our pool and surrounding deck from the south and west. Actually, the pool and deck are
not visible from any direction off of our property, and only a small portion of the fence
20
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
around the area (approximately three panels) is visible from the road (see the attached
photos). The reasons we decided not to consider locating the pool behind our house are
many. The first being it would be closer to our next-door neighbor on the north side. The
second being the available level area would be greatly reduced by the pool, which would
require us having to excavate into the slope to create a larger level area. In doing so, we
would possibly be cutting into the root systems of the trees in the back, and we did not
want to chance injuring them. We had already done a minor excavation to create a flat
area closest to the back of our house for our dogs to play, and we did not want to
excavate any further being it might injure the trees and would also result in creating a
much higher retaining wall. The third being the amount of sunlight in the rear yard is very
minor compared with that of the side yard with its southern exposure. The last reason for
not considering locating the pool in the rear yard is that it would result in the pool being
higher than the house foundation and resulting in possible water damage should the pool
ever fail. We realize the chance of this happening is not great; however, if it ever did in
its present location, the water would safely run away from the house due to the slope.
By locating the pool in its present location with the surrounding deck, the area did not
have to be filled and leveled to make it useable, and the backyard did not lose anymore
of its useable lawn area, even though it is still a very small area considering the 1.52-
acre lot size. Even though I take full responsibility for the pool being installed prior to a
variance being requested, I offer the following explanation. In April of 2007, I hired a
contractor to install my above ground pool. He was not familiar with the Queensbury
pool regulations, and directed me to contact the Town to see what they entailed. After
contacting the Town Zoning Administrator (Craig Brown), I was told a permit was
required for the pool I purchased. As I was directed, I applied for the permit. Due to his
schedule, the contractor informed me he would not be able to install the pool for quite a
few weeks. Being we were about to leave town for a long planned vacation, I told him it
was not a major concern. However, if he had the opportunity to install it sooner, should
his schedule open up, I would appreciate it. The contractor stated that being the pool is
an above ground type (only 4 feet deep), it would only take a day to install, and if he
could fit the job into his schedule, he would do so. A few days later, we left town for our
vacation. When we returned home, much to our delight, the pool was installed in its
present location. It wasn’t until after we picked up our mail, which had been on hold, did
we receive the letter from Mr. Brown that informed us the pool as located on the permit
site map would require a variance. Our delight quickly turned to embarrassment and
then fear. Knowing we would have to apply for a variance, we discussed the situation
with our neighbors. All of our neighbors agreed with us that the location we chose was
the best considering all of the constraints due to the lay of the land and shape of our
property, and they would be supportive of a variance being approved (see the attached
petition). We considered hiring an attorney to handle the matter, and were advised the
town would surely be contacting us soon regarding the matter, and we should apply for
the variance then. At the time, we never would have guessed we wouldn’t be contacted
until more than two years had passed. I have to admit as time went by, I hoped the
Town would forget about the matter, and being no one’s quality of living was negatively
impacted due to our pool location (which we thought was the intent of the code) our
embarrassment and fear lessened. Unfortunately, all of the embarrassment and fear are
back and rightly deserved. We should have addressed the matter right after receiving
Mr. Brown’s letter. For this, we apologize to the town and the board and take full
responsibility for our actions. Members of the board, please consider granting our
variance based on the factors mentioned above, that resulted in our choosing to place
our pool on the south side of our house and not in our rear yard, rather than punishing us
for not applying for the variance back in 2007. We realize our decision to wait to ask for
the variance was not a good one, however, we believe our decision to locate the pool
where we did was the best choice considering our closest neighbor and our
environmental concerns and was only supported by good intent. We greatly appreciate
your time and consideration. Sincerely, Steve Quirion”
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 57-2009, Steven Quirion, Meeting Date: October
21, 2009 “Project Location: 31 Edgewood Drive – Edgewood Park, Section 2
Description of Proposed Project: Applicant has constructed a 16 ft. X 24 ft. pool with
deck in the side yard.
Relief Required:
Applicant requests relief from the requirement that pools be erected only in the rear yard
per §179-5-020C.
21
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the character of the neighborhood may be
anticipated as the pool is well screened and the lot is relatively large.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. With the pool
existing in the side yard, feasible alternatives appear limited.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for relief from the
placement of a pool in other than the rear yard per §179-5-020C may be considered
moderate in this instance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts on the
physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The alleged difficulty may be
considered self created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
BP 07-159 Above ground pool
BP 03-074 1,494 sq. ft. SFD CO issued 8/12/2003
Staff comments:
The applicant states that the pool could not be located in the rear yard due to topography
restraints. Please see narrative submitted with application.
It does appear, with the submittal by the applicant of a list of neighbors in support of the
variance, that little to no opposition exists to the applicant’s request.
The pool is well screened from the road and appears to meet the minimum 4 foot
permanent fencing requirement.
SEQR Status:
Type II – no further review needed”
“Warren County Planning Board Project Review and Referral Form October 14, 2009
Project Name: Quirion, Steven Owner(s): Steven Quirion ID Number: QBY-09-AV-57
County Project#: Oct09-26 Current Zoning: MDR Community: Queensbury Project
Description: Applicant has constructed a pool in the side yard. Relief requested from
the requirement that pools be erected only in the rear yard. Site Location: 31 Edgewood
Drive – Edgewood Park, Section 2 Tax Map Number(s): 296.14-1-29 Staff Notes: Area
Variance: The applicant requests approval of constructing a pool in the side yard. Relief
is requested for the following: location of pools are required to e in the rear yard where
this pool has been constructed has been constructed in the side yard. The applicant
explains the location was selected due to sloping issues on the property, desire to note
remove trees, desire not to interfere with neighbor on the north. The plans show the lot
configuration and pool located in the side yard. Additional details in the application
indicate the applicant has contacted the neighbors who agree the current location better
than a rear yard location. Staff recommends no county impact based on the information
submitted according to the suggested review criteria of NYS General Municipal Law
Section 239 L applied to the proposed project. County Planning Board
Recommendation: No County Impact” Signed by Tim Lawson, Warren County Planning
Board 10/14/09.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Mr. Quirion, anything else you want to add at this time?
MR. QUIRION-All I can do is apologize. It got out of control a little bit.
22
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do Board members have any questions?
MRS. JENKIN-A question on your property. Where is your septic system?
MR. QUIRION-Up on the front yard.
MRS. JENKIN-It’s in the front yard.
MR. QUIRION-Yes.
MRS. JENKIN-I see it now. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Anybody else?
MR. GARRAND-That deck is huge.
MR. QUIRION-You went and saw it?
MR. GARRAND-That whole neighborhood, though, slopes down.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Into the pit.
MR. QUIRION-But, you know, by doing that, I don’t have to mow, you know, no fertilizer
going down that ditch. We’re going to keep that wild down there.
MR. GARRAND-If you had tried to put it in the back yard, you would have had all kinds of
problems. You’d have had to, you know, erect walls and everything else.
MR. QUIRION-In my wildest dreams, I never thought this was a problem. Honestly, you
know, the back yard, I’ve got the neighbors right there. This was perfect.
MR. GARRAND-Putting a pool in the backyard there would have been a complete
nightmare, though, as far as, you know, engineering that. You could have had Gifford
help you with that. He’s an engineer, but.
MR. QUIRION-And those aren’t my trees in the back. That’s a landowner, Al Cerrone’s
property back there. So where you see the trees there is Al Cerrone’s.
MRS. JENKIN-I guess waiting the two years was your biggest.
MR. QUIRION-Yes.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Anybody else?
MR. URRICO-I’ve got a comment. How come it took two years to get back to them?
MR. OBORNE-Well, because we typically, and we, I’m speaking for the Zoning
Administrator and Code Compliance. I’m not a Code Compliance Officer. I’m a Planner.
They give anybody who’s in violation the chance to come around, and the last resort is to
issue an appearance ticket. So, I think Craig and Bruce put a little pressure on you and.
MR. QUIRION-Well, no, this was the first they came.
MR. OBORNE-Well, you had a letter written.
MR. QUIRION-Right, and I addressed it right away.
MR. OBORNE-Right. They came in two years later.
MRS. JENKIN-Keith, does the original letter state that the homeowner must follow up
with that and come in and it’s their responsibility to respond to it, or do they, is it a little
ambiguous that a homeowner feels well maybe the Town will contact me further?
MR. OBORNE-I think that the applicant understood that he needed a variance, in his
letter, which is quite clear, is that he was hoping that we’d forget about it, I guess.
MR. QUIRION-Yes. I looked at the variance, I was way over my head.
MR. OBORNE-As far as the Code goes, the Code was followed. The letter was issued.
23
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. QUIRION-I didn’t know where to turn to.
MR. OBORNE-Now, we didn’t go and check and see if there was a pool built, you know,
we don’t check that. The only time that we would check that is if we get a complaint.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay. So what made, two years after this, why did he receive a letter two
years after?
MR. OBORNE-Can you answer that?
MR. QUIRION-They said just an open permit.
MR. OBORNE-It was an open file and they came around to it. There wasn’t a complaint.
I really don’t know, Joan.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Anything else from you guys? All right, I’ll open up the public
hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter, raise your hand,
please.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. UNDERWOOD-Any correspondence?
MR. URRICO-The only correspondence I would say is that there was a petition signed.
It says, “Mr. Quirion has informed me of his applying for a variance for his pool installed
in his side yard, and I am in support of the variance being approved.” And it’s signed by
four of his neighbors, all on Edgewood, 18 Edgewood, 37, 29, and 16.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. All right. I’ll just make some commentary. I think the Code
as it exists, the side pools would be basically not something that most homeowners living
in close proximity to their neighbors would tolerate, you know, and I think we would be
very reluctant to give variances for them, except on rare occasion. We have given them
on corner lots, you know, where you have the two side yards, you know, in that instance
there some times, you know, with screening, but in looking at this one here, I mean, my
son goes down to Messinas house all the time. So I drive up the hill past your house,
and, looking at the size of your lot, I mean, no one’s ever going to build on the rest of that
lot there because of the swale and the water and the runoff, the way everything drains in
that direction there, and I think normally, if you had a house immediately next door, we
might be flipping out over this one, but because it’s such a long way from there to the
next home down the line, in essence the side line thing really becomes a moot point. It
doesn’t really trigger anything that puts a red flag up, other than it’s not permitted. So,
you know, we’re back to square one with this one. For myself, I wouldn’t have a problem
with this one. It doesn’t really have an effect on anybody. The people across the street,
I don’t think it’s, you’re having too many wild parties down there driving the neighbors
crazy or anything like that.
MR. QUIRION-I had all the neighbors sign.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So I guess what I’ll do is ask you guys, anymore commentary from
you guys, or do you want me just to poll you?
MR. URRICO-I think if there was any problem, his neighbors would have turned him in a
long time ago. Really. I don’t think there’s an issue.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I guess I’ll start with you, Joyce.
MRS. HUNT-Okay. Yes. Well, I can understand the reasoning for having pools in the
backyard, but in this case, because of the size of the lot and the topography of the rear
yard, and the fact that there’s no opposition to your placing it in the rear yard, and it’s
well screened, I would have no problem with this variance.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joan?
MRS. JENKIN-I absolutely concur with this. When I drove past, I thought this is a
wonderful spot for a pool, and that really isn’t a consideration. It’s just that you didn’t get
the permit before, or you didn’t come for the variance before, because there probably
24
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
wouldn’t have been any problem in us granting the variance at that point, either. So I
certainly would grant it now, this time.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Roy?
MR. URRICO-We said earlier that after the fact variances are never really liked very
much, and I guess the question would be, if you came to us with clean hands, if you were
doing this from the beginning, what we would have said at the time. We probably would
have asked you, what would be the chances of putting it in the rear yard, and you would
probably have given us the same answers you gave us tonight, and I probably would
have agreed that that’s the best location for it in this instance. Every instance is different.
So I would be in favor of it this time.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I’ve got to agree with Roy and the Chairman’s remarks also. Again, I’m
never happy granting a variance after the fact, but I believe the variance would have
been granted, given the arguments you gave tonight, I believe. So I would be in favor of
it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Rich?
MR. GARRAND-When I look at whether benefits can be achieved by other means
feasible to the applicant, I don’t think the amount of landscaping and adjustments to the
lay of the land in the back would be feasible to the applicant. Like the other Board
members also said, variances after the fact tend to be frowned upon, but in this case I
think if they’d come here first with this request, I don’t think we would have turned it
down. So I’d be in favor.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay, and I’ll go along with it, too, and I guess I’ll do this one.
MS. GAGLIARDI-You need to close the public hearing.
MR. UNDERWOOD-And I’ll close the public hearing. Thanks.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 57-2009 STEVEN QUIRION,
Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Richard
Garrand:
31 Edgewood Drive – Edgewood Park, Section 2. The applicant has constructed a 16 by
24 foot pool with a deck in the side yard and is requesting relief from the requirement that
pools be erected only in the rear yard per Section 179-5-020, Section C. In general we
feel that there’s no undesirable change that’s been created in the neighborhood by the
erection of this pool in the side yard. Everybody, I think unanimously, feels that had the
applicant come in and asked for the variance initially for the pool in this position, we
would have granted the favor to them at that time. Whether the benefit could be sought
by putting it in a different area, that would be the backyard only, it would have been an
engineering nightmare to put it back there, due to the topography of the lot and the way
that it slopes. I think that the request is substantial, and in most cases we’re happy with
the Code that disallows pools in the side yard, but in this instance here, due to the long
setback from the nearest neighbor, and no real opposition by the neighbors, that the
Area Variance being granted here this evening will not have any adverse impact on any
physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood, and although it was self-
created, by putting the pool there, I don’t think anybody has a problem with it. So I’ll
move for its approval.
st
Duly adopted this 21 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Garrand, Mr. Clements, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re all set.
MR. QUIRION-Thank you.
MR. GARRAND-Do you want your surveys back?
25
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. OBORNE-Steve, you’re going to need to submit final plans, so you probably should
take the surveys back.
MR. QUIRION-Okay.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 58-2009 SEQRA TYPE: II SHANNON STOCKWELL
OWNER(S): SHANNON STOCKWELL ZONING: MDR LOCATION: 4 BENNETT
ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF AN 18 FT. BY 32 FT. ABOVE-
GROUND POOL IN THE NON-ARCHITECTURAL FRONT YARD. RELIEF
REQUESTED FROM PLACEMENT OF POOL IN THE REAR YARD REQUIREMENT
AND FENCE RELIEF FOR A PORTION OF EXISTING FENCE ENCROACHING INTO
FRONT SETBACK. CROSS REF. BP 2003-919 SFD WARREN COUNTY PLANNING:
N/A LOT SIZE: 0.43 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 295.14-1-27.2 SECTION: 179-5-020
SHANNON STOCKWELL, PRESENT
MR. URRICO-I’m also going to read in a narrative given to us by the applicant. It says,
“My husband and I applied for a pool permit. We were denied because of where we
want to put it on our property. We are now applying for a required variance. The pool is
an 18 x 32 above ground. We would like to put it in our side yard, which is shown on the
included surveys. The reason we would like to put it in our side yard, because our
backyard is very shallow. We also have two large locust trees that would be constantly
dropping thorns and leaves into the pool. Our house faces the west and block the sun
form hitting out backyard. Therefore our pool would have no or very little sunlight. The
area of our backyard that we would like to put the pool has no trees that would be
hanging over the pool. The sun also hits that area all day long. Our back yard is
completely fenced in. We have a privacy fence located around the side and back yard
and a chain fence around the front yard. We are also seeking relief for the fence so that
it does not have to be removed when installing the pool. Our home and yard are always
kept clean and we assure you that the pool ad pool area would be kept the same. Thank
you for your consideration. Brandon and Shannon Stockwell”
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 58-2009, Shannon Stockwell, Meeting Date:
October 21, 2009 “Project Location: 4 Bennett Road Description of Proposed Project:
Applicant proposes construction of an 18 ft. by 32 ft. above-ground pool in the non-
architectural front yard.
Relief Required:
Applicant requests relief from the requirement that pools be erected only in the rear yard
and fence relief for a portion of existing fence encroaching into the front setback.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of
this area variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as a result
of granting this area variance.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method,
feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The applicant could
move the pool to the northeast portion of the property; however, the limitations of the
lot and the location of the wastewater system appear to add to the need for an area
variance as proposed.
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request to locate the pool
approximately 38 feet into the side yard may be considered moderate relative to the
ordinance.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical
or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.Minor impacts on the
physical and environmental conditions of the neighborhood may be anticipated.
26
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.):
BP 09-196 Above ground pool Pending
BP 03-919 1,604 sq. ft Single family dwelling & two car detached garage CO issue
3/22/04
Staff comments:
All private swimming pools shall be enclosed by a permanent fence of durable material
at least four feet high per §179-5-020C4. In the case where a lot fronts on two public
rights-of-way, the pool shall be screened from the view of the public right-of-way and the
neighboring property by means of landscaping as per §179-5-020C5. Note:
Landscaping includes fences, scrubs, trees etc. The Zoning Board may wish to consider,
as a condition of approval, that fencing and / or vegetative screening may be used to
satisfy the landscaping requirement of this proposal.
In order to avoid an additional area variance due to the location of the existing non-
compliant fence encroaching on the non-architectural front setback, the applicant will
need to reposition the fence in a compliant location. Further, the applicant should clarify
the proposed new location of the existing fence as the plan calls for the pool to encroach
into its current location.
The applicant may wish to rotate the position of the pool counterclockwise to the
northeast by 90 degrees in order to avoid repositioning the existing fence as stated
above. Note: This action would not preclude the applicant from repositioning the
southeast corner of the existing fence in order to avoid an area variance.
SEQR Status:
Type II – no further review needed”
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Do you want to fill us in?
MRS. STOCKWELL-Well, we did talk to Keith about rotating the pool. We don’t have a
problem with that. Anything that we have to do, basically, just to get it on that side of the
yard we would do. The backyard is extremely shady. The trees are huge back there,
constantly dropping things, and the house blocks the sun. So it’s an extremely shallow
backyard, and we’d just like to do what we can to get it on the other side. It is blocked,
privacy, that’s from Aviation Road, and you would only be able to see it coming from
West Mountain up Aviation Road.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Questions from you guys?
MR. CLEMENTS-I just wondered why it was set here, over the line of the fence. I just
wondered why you had it done that way.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Well, I think there was a lack of communication between myself and
the surveyor. I told them as far to the right as I could get it. I didn’t mean that there was
a fence, but that’s where they put it. So, unfortunately that’s the way it turned out.
MR. CLEMENTS-So you’re planning on turning it and putting it inside of the fence,
leaving the fence there?
MRS. STOCKWELL-Correct.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So it would go lengthwise towards Gordon’s property, and, you
know, short end towards Aviation Road that way. That makes more sense.
MR. OBORNE-And I think I said rotate it to the northeast. I probably should have said
northwest. I’m sure you guys would have told me about that anyway.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. We figured that out. As far as the setbacks, so it would be
setback from the fence. How far has it got to be from the fence, like four feet?
27
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. OBORNE-It could be right up to the fence. There is no issue with that, but you do
have to have that screened from Bennett Road and Aviation Road, you know, where you
have your chain link, you have to have a four foot opaque fence, and I would highly
suggest that you direct them to do that, along with plantings, and it’s a safety issue is
what it is.
MRS. JENKIN-That was my concern, too, when I drove, because you wouldn’t have any
privacy, really, because Aviation Road is very busy and you can see into that area.
BRANDON STOCKWELL
MR. STOCKWELL-So it would be a combination of vegetation and slats, or just one or
the other?
MRS. JENKIN-Well, you could put bushes, or you could put a four foot privacy fence.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I think you’ve got to put a fence that you can’t see through.
MR. STOCKWELL-Okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-But you can do any kind of plantings you want in front of that. In
fact, probably put an arborvitae hedge, it’ll grow up way tall and it’s like your private
sanctuary back there.
MR. OBORNE-You can run a compliant six foot privacy fence from the corner of your
hour all the way over, okay. As you have it now, because the fence comes out from the
edge of the garage, and it’s four foot. You’re compliant, but if you wanted to do that with
a six foot fence, you couldn’t do that. You’re not here for that type of relief right now. So,
just keep that in mind.
MR. UNDERWOOD-It’s got to come from the back, then?
MR. OBORNE-It has to come from the very, the point on the side of the house, and
actually as the Code reads now, a fence can go up to the front setback along the side
line, but that’s a whole other issue. We don’t need to get into that now.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So you don’t want it out in front of the garage. You want it in back of
the garage?
MR. OBORNE-No. I think that they have a compliant fence now. If they somehow put
slats in that fence, and then put plantings, I think they’d be golden.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay.
MRS. JENKIN-Actually, to buy shrubs right now, at this time of year, everything is 50 to
70% off.
MRS. STOCKWELL-He works at Lowe’s. So we’re in like Flynn.
MRS. JENKIN-You could easily put in, arborvitae grows fast, but keep it trimmed, or you
will end up with.
MR. OBORNE-Deer love the arborvitae.
MRS. JENKIN-But that’s what I would suggest.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, as far as the location goes, too, I mean, it’s on the south side.
I mean, you’re going to get the sun, and I agree with you. Putting it anywhere else is
either going to be in the shade or a leaf collector. All right. I think what I’ll do is open up
the public hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter? Okay. Do
you want to come up?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
CHRIS HANCHETT
MR. HANCHETT-Hi. My name is Chris Hanchett, and I own the property at 59 Aviation
Road, which is adjacent and east of the subject property. I also own the property at 6
Eldridge Road. I’m opposed to the Zoning Board of Appeals granting the Area Variance
28
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
outlined in this application. When I look at the criteria, the balancing test here, I guess
what I can do is just read off my concerns in regards to that. With respect to whether
granting this variance will produce an undesirable change in character or a detriment to
the neighborhood, the applicant is in effect requesting to install a very large sized pool,
18 by 32 feet, above ground in a non-architectural front yard adjacent to my architectural
front yard. In addition, Section 179-5-075 sub paragraph C3 and C4 of the zoning
ordinance states that no fence over 4 feet shall be erected along side yard adjacent to
public streets and that privacy fences are restricted to rear and side yards only. I have a
concern that I think was brought up here about that fence, because of the way that pool
was positioned. Granting of this variance will introduce a “back yard environment”
adjacent to our front yard and as such is detrimental. The other thing is that Aviation
Road is a main corridor in the Town, out to West Mountain Road. This is a corner lot.
It’s very visible on Aviation Road. It’s not a side street. This is not like the last case that
came up where there’s, you know, this is right out in the open, and very visible. So, you
know, based on this tenet, I think the variance should be denied. Secondly, with respect
to whether or not the applicants can achieve their goals via a reasonable alternative
which does not involve the granting of a variance, the answer is, yes, they can, and the
information in their own application alludes to this. The applicant can place the pool in
their rear yard as permitted. They have two locust trees there which, you know, I
understand can be a problem, and there’s not a lot of sun there, but they could be
trimmed, and even though I’m not an advocate of cutting trees down, you know, they can
certainly be cut, and this would also improve available sunlight to the back yard, which
was another issue that they brought up. With respect to the relief requested being
substantial to the Ordinance, the Ordinance states in the relevant sections that in the
case where a lot fronts on two or more public rights-of-way, a private swimming pool
shall be erected only on that portion of said lot that is directly adjacent to that side of the
principal building which is directly opposite the architectural main entrance of said
building and the neighboring side lot line. This request is totally contrary to that. This is
not equivalent to granting of setback variance of several feet. If you grant this, you will
be allowing a prohibited activity to occur in what is in essence, a front yard. Here the
Ordinance makes it clear that the proposed location of the pool is not allowed, period.
Therefore, it is substantial, and should be denied. With respect to whether the relief
requested will have an adverse effect on the neighborhood or district, I said some of my
concerns, and it certainly would, I think, adversely effect the neighborhood, my property,
and possibly property value. However, we can not overlook the fact that the granting of
this variance can set a precedent which could cause similar requests from many other
residents. In the applicant’s own words, they state in their application putting the pool in
the rear yard is not acceptable due to the presence of trees which will drop leaves into
the pool and due to less sun in the permitted area than in the requested non-permitted
area. This is not a unique situation and a common occurrence on many, many lots in the
Town of Queensbury. Granting this variance could set a precedent that many other
resident could take advantage of if they so choose. Allowing such installations
throughout the Town will have a detrimental, physical appearance on our community. As
I stated before, Aviation Road is a main corridor. It’s right on a corner. It’s not back
down a street. Therefore, I believe a request for the variance should be denied. And
the last tenet of the balancing test, as to whether or not there has been a self created
difficulty, there has been as follows: When the property was purchased, as per Town
records, in 2007, the zoning law existed, so the prohibition of a pool in the front yard
should be no surprise to the applicants. Exercising good due diligence at the purchase
time would have made this prohibition clear. The applicants apparently did not do that.
When the applicants purchased the house, the amount of sunlight exposure in the part of
the yard where a pool is permitted is the same today as it was on the purchase date.
The applicants had to know this. If sunlight in the backyard of this property is insufficient
to support their intended activities, they could have chosen another property. The trees
can be trimmed or removed. The pool can be heated. There are other alternatives.
The applicants are choosing not to do this. The decision is self created, and the
applicants have chosen to apply for a variance to mitigate the results of that decision.
Again, it is self-created. Certainly, I mean, I don’t know the applicants, and I don’t wish
them any, you know, impediments to enjoying their property, and certainly, you know,
they should be able to do their desired activities, but in our neighborhood, a balance, you
know, and in any neighborhood in the Town, must be achieved, and when one wants to
do something on their lot that is contrary to the Ordinance, and in this case it’s a
significant variance, I believe, I feel that it shouldn’t be granted.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So do you live adjacent to them?
MR. HANCHETT-Yes. I own two properties. I own this property right here, so this
house. The pool would be right here. The fence goes like this now, and it’s right, right
here is Aviation Road. So, I mean, the pool would be right on Aviation Road basically. I
29
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
live in a new house right here, but we’re in the process of rehabbing this property and
this house, and done a lot of work here, and to an existing cabin on the property, just
completely rehabbed it, and we are planning on rehabbing this house, and selling this
house and moving to this house.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. All right.
MRS. JENKIN-Is there a row of trees on your property now, separating the two
properties?
MR. HANCHETT-There are a few trees there, yes.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. He brought up some points. I don’t know if you guys want to
address his concerns. I don’t know, as far as mitigation purposes, what you could do, as
far as where you’re proposing the pool. I think if you, actually, if you move it back it I
think it would make it even closer to the house next door, if you put it back behind the
house. Would that be correct, your assumption on that?
MR. HANCHETT-If you look at that, it will actually be further away, if it’s behind their
house.
MR. OBORNE-Are you saying if they put it where the locust trees are?
MR. UNDERWOOD-If you put it kind of back behind the garage, you know, like if you
were, slide it from Aviation north, you know, they’re already proposing to turn it that
direction.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. Either way, they’d require a variance, obviously.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure.
MR. OBORNE-And I don’t know how much that’ll mitigate anything, to be honest with
you.
MRS. JENKIN-But won’t it be a negative thing for you to have the pool so close to the
fence? You’ll have to walk out your back, and it would be a little easier for you if you did
move it closer to the house, especially to the garage, and maybe have it slightly behind
the garage.
MRS. STOCKWELL-I worry about the septic system when we get close to the garage.
Because it is, you know, it’s right at the edge of the garage.
MRS. HUNT-It says approximate septic.
MR. UNDERWOOD-They’re probably not sure, the laterals, you think, go towards
Aviation Road, that direction there? Yes, so it would mean digging it all up.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Yes, and the fence, our whole back yard is, there are trees along
the whole back of that fence, that privacy fence, and, you know, trimming the locust trees
I guess is doable. They’re huge, but the house provides a lot of the shade itself. So I’m
not sure how much, how effective, you know.
MRS. JENKIN-But if you were to move the, back behind the house, you would interfere
with the septic system most definitely. Wouldn’t you?
MRS. STOCKWELL-Yes.
MRS. JENKIN-That’s a real detriment.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Yes.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, these are all the laterals back there.
MRS. JENKIN-Unless you did it on the other side of the house, but that would be the
very dark side. That’s the north side of the house.
MRS. STOCKWELL-And that would be right next to our neighbor who’s directly next to
us where there are no trees between the two properties.
30
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MRS. JENKIN-Okay. Have you considered, it’s an above ground pool, so it would come
up, what, is it four feet high?
MR. STOCKWELL-Yes, it’s four feet.
MRS. JENKIN-Have you considered putting it down partially in the ground, to lower it?
MRS. STOCKWELL-We never considered it, but we can. I don’t know.
MRS. JENKIN-I don’t know whether you can or not.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I think before we continue, we do have some public comment
letters. So I think I’ll have Roy read those first, because that’ll give us a little more input.
MRS. JENKIN-Okay.
MR. URRICO-One of the letters was from Mr. Hanchett, but he made his comments in
person.
MR. HANCHETT-That was pretty much what I had to say.
MR. URRICO-Here’s another one from, “I, Thomas Hall, reside at 41 Aviation Rd.
Having spoken with my neighbors I am objecting to the proposed 18 by 32 foot above
ground swimming pool to be erected at the Shannon Stockwell residence at 4 Bennett
Road, Queensbury. I feel it would be an eyesore on the corner of Aviation Road and
would lower the value of my home. Thomas Hall” “A 10/19/09 call to the zoning board
answered the question as to why pool cannot be established behind house as it would
be located over septic area. We would not object to a side yard positioning of pool if
applicant would agree to establish fencing similar in height and style to fencing on the
south and east side of their property obscuring view of pool area from road frontage.
Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend the scheduled variance meeting but would like
my position presented. Thanking you in advance. Tim Towers” He’s at 20 Bennett
Road. I think that’s it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Do you guys have any suggestions? Let’s look at the
original plot on the thing as proposed there. It seems to me if you took the original
proposal, which was with the long side going along Aviation Road and the short end
facing Bennett Road, if we slid that, and we moved that back towards the garage, it looks
like you’re 37.75 feet from the garage. That’s what’s listed on the survey. I don’t know at
what point you would encroach into the laterals from the septic system, or if, you
probably would come back say 35 feet further back towards the garage. I don’t know
how long those laterals are. Is there anything on record, or you guys would just be
guessing?
MRS. JENKIN-Yes, you couldn’t put it behind the garage.
MR. CLEMENTS-Are you talking about putting it behind the garage or beside the
garage?
MR. UNDERWOOD-No. It’s over here, so we would just move it 30 feet back closer
towards the garage, not turn it like we originally talked about doing. That brings it closer
to the side of the house. You can’t put it behind there because the septic and the leach
field and the lateral lines are all there as it is.
MRS. JENKIN-If you did move it toward the garage.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Well, that way the shed would be there, you know, it would be past
kind of a, like approximately past the shed, you know, the edge of the pool, you know, as
it is on the plot there, and that would bring it a substantial distance back. It looks like you
would be, from Aviation Road you would probably be, it’s 75 feet to the edge of the
garage. So you’d probably be out, 75 minus 18, right? If you’re near the edge of the
garage.
MRS. JENKIN-Well, you can’t put it right on the edge of the garage.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Well, not near there, but you’d be out probably 24 feet from the
garage or so. If we put it further, if we put it, if we moved it up closer to the, so it was
parallel, in line next to the garage, you know, that would substantially increase the
setbacks from the property to the east.
31
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MRS. JENKIN-Then it would be really evident from the road, Bennett Road.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Well, here’s what I’m proposing. Here’s what I would say. Like this.
MRS. JENKIN-Like this.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So move it up here. Move it from here, over here, so it’s next to the
garage. You still would have a fence. You’d still have things up there. You would be
increasing the setback this way.
MR. GARRAND-And you wouldn’t have a pool right on top of Aviation Road.
MR. UNDERWOOD-You wouldn’t have the pool close to the road. It would be closer to
the house, but still on the south side of the house, but next to the garage.
MRS. JENKIN-It would be closer to Bennett, but then if they put in the shrubs. The
shrubs take a while to grow. That’s the problem. Yes, but I think you’d be increasing
the setbacks away from the road, you know, in a side situation there. I don’t know what
you guys think. What do you think? Does that go anywhere or not?
MRS. JENKIN-What about sinking into the ground a couple of feet?
MR. GARRAND-That would be one of the most reasonable, as far as positioning goes,
because, Number One, I can go down Aviation Road. I don’t see a single pool on
Aviation Road. All right. That, in and of itself, changes the character of the
neighborhood by having a pool on Aviation Road. Next is the size of the pool. It is, it’s
more than double the size of the pool that was in my back yard.
MRS. JENKIN-So maybe making it smaller?
MR. GARRAND-Not necessarily. I mean, if they don’t want to make it smaller, I would
suggest that it definitely be repositioned in such a way that it’s not right on Aviation Road
and it’s not something that people are readily going to see from Bennett Road.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you guys want to see what I’m proposing? Okay. You can take
it back with you. So right now you’re talking about doing it here. So I was saying if you
moved it over here, next to the garage, you know, you’d increase the setback over here
where you’re interfering. You’d get further back from the road. You can plant trees
galore out here. Trees galore out here, you know, which eventually, and obviously
you’re going to plant trees over on the Bennett Road side.
MR. GARRAND-You’d get all the afternoon sun around there.
MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re still on the south side, you know, and you’re still going to get
the benefit of it, but it’s more, you know, move it closer.
MRS. STOCKWELL-I mean, we will do whatever we have to, landscape wise, to make it
look nicer.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Right, and I think that moves it this direction, you know, relieving
him of some of his concerns. Not giving him total. I’m going to guess your D box comes
out, and your lines are all set back there, you know, I mean, if you’re close to your
nearest one, it’s not going to kill your septic system probably. We know it’s sand over
there, big time.
MR. OBORNE-It percs very fast, yes.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So I don’t think that’s a concern.
MRS. STOCKWELL-I guess we were just thinking further back (lost words) would be
more (lost words) however.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, sure, but I mean, I think they’re looking at, so you’re not going
to be seeing this as you come around the corner here. It’s going to be here. You’re
going to have to screen this out here substantially, too, but. All right.
MRS. HUNT-Yes, being close to the house, it won’t be as obtrusive.
32
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. GARRAND-I’d be okay with that.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. Why don’t you come up here and I’ll show you what I’m
proposing. See what you think.
MRS. JENKIN-Are you going to put a platform around it or anything? Do you have
anything planned for that?
MR. STOCKWELL-I don’t have plans on it right now.
MRS. STOCKWELL-We don’t have any permanent plans, but.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So they were talking over here, and then they were talking changing
it to this position, but what I’m saying is, if you bring it over here close to the garage, that
gets it further away from you, and if they put a whole bunch of screening up here, a
whole bunch of screening up here, and a whole bunch of screening up here, it’ll privatize
it somewhat. I mean, obviously it’s going to take a while for that stuff to grow up. I don’t
know if that relieves you of any.
MR. HANCHETT-In any event, any pool in this area we’re opposed to, and I think there’s
better spots on that property for a pool to go to. I don’t think that’s an appropriate or a
good design.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. All right. What do you guys want to do? Okay. We don’t
have any measurements as to where it’s going to go. Do I want to show you?
MR. OBORNE-That’s not the issue. The issue is the location. That’s what you’re
granting variances for, a variance for.
MRS. JENKIN-Right.
MR. UNDERWOOD-So we would want to tuck it over towards the garage there, and put
up substantial buffers so we’re not going to look at that from any roads or anything like
that.
MR. URRICO-We should point out, right, this Ordinance has changed from what it used
to be before. Before we used to recognize two front yards.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Two architectural front yards.
MR. URRICO-Two architectural front yards, and we required a variance for any pool, but
we didn’t direct the pool to be behind the house essentially. Whereas now we are
directing where the location should be
MR. OBORNE-The location of any pool, even in the Code that was approved in 2002,
was required to be in the rear of the property. No ifs, ands or buts. That hasn’t changed.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay.
MR. OBORNE-And there’s reasons for it, obviously.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. Yes. So it’s not a nuisance to driving and all. What do you
guys want to do? Do you want to proceed with this? Do you want to table it? What do
you want to do?
MR. URRICO-Well, I think we have to hear what everybody has to say first. I don’t know.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Let’s go through the ranks, then, and we’ll start with you,
Roy.
MR. URRICO-Well, I think it’s very clear that the Ordinance in this, in terms of the pool,
directs us where it has to go. I mean, there’s no ifs ands or buts about that. There’s a
problem there right off the bat. So I think the applicant has to consider moving it to that
location, and maybe consider a smaller sized pool, at the same time. Because as it is
right now, there is criteria for requesting you to be more compliant. There’s definitely a
place that’s, the variance is substantial. There is benefit that could be made by putting it
in a more compliant location, and basically you’re creating the difficulty because of the
pool. A pool is not something that, unfortunately, we’d all like to have a pool, but it’s not
something that everybody maybe can have in the Town, and I would be against it.
33
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. Well, I would, I like moving it closer to the garage and further away
from the property lines, but, listening to Roy, maybe reducing the size would help, too,
and I would be in favor of it.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I guess I’d probably make a suggestion. I think that maybe you ought
to go back and take a look at this and see where you could move it possibly closer to the
garage, like Jim suggested. The other thing is that you can only have a four foot fence
on that Bennett Road side. Otherwise you’d have to have a variance for a higher fence
there. Is that correct?
MR. OBORNE-That is correct.
MR. CLEMENTS-But you may want to look into that. It may be another variance, but
that may help with some of the neighbors and the questions that they have about it. So
my suggestion I guess would be to table this, have you look at some other alternatives,
and maybe talk with your neighbors and come back with something that maybe, you
know, everybody could live with.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Joan?
MRS. JENKIN-Yes. I also feel, because this is a wide open space, Aviation and Bennett
Road. It is close. There is opposition from neighbors which I do think we have to take
into consideration. Looking at the plot plan, even though it’s not an ideal location, it is on
the north side of house, you could, you do have room, within the pool setbacks, to place
it behind the house, and you said there are no trees on that side, the north side of the
house.
MR. OBORNE-That would require a variance, too. It would still require a variance.
MR. UNDERWOOD-You can’t do it over here. You’d need side setback variance on the
north side. You’re talking the short side.
MRS. JENKIN-Well, there’s a pool setback line, and if it was placed almost, well, it would
go into that side yard, that’s for sure, partially, but it would be much less obtrusive to the
street and to your neighbors to have it back there. So I’m thinking that it’s a huge
problem, and right now I am not going to be in favor of a variance.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Rich?
MR. GARRAND-While there is some opposition to this application from the
neighborhood, I think that by placing the pool where you’ve suggested actually puts
about half the pool in a compliant location. I think they’ve been more than willing to
accommodate requests on this. At this point, I would be in favor of a location somewhat
of what you’ve outlined there.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. For me, my suggestion would be that you consider this, but
maybe what you should do is this. Why don’t we consider tabling it until next time, all
right, because you can take this thing that I drew in there and maybe you can actually go
out in the backyard and think, well, maybe we can take the trees down and get rid of that
problem, too, you know, it’s going to take a little thought process involved, but I’d rather
have you end up with something that you really want and something that’s more
compatible. I think that the suggestion I made isn’t off the wall crazy or anything like that,
even though it’s somewhat in the side yard there. It’s an attempt to alleviate the situation
that you have with your neighbor who doesn’t want anything there at all, period. I think
you should have a pool in your yard, but we’ve got to find a place where it’s going to
work and something that mildly satisfies everybody. It’s not going to make everybody
happy, but too bad. So I think what I’ll do is table this until next month, and we’re going
to have to go to December, right?
MR. OBORNE-Yes.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Not that we’re going to need the pool anytime soon. So we’ve got
lots of time to play with here. So I don’t know how many days you’re, or how long you
guys want to think about it, but maybe go out and draw things and the other
34
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 10/21/09)
consideration that I would ask you to make it whether you really need a pool that big, you
know, because as people have said, it’s a pretty big pool. It is nice to have a semi small
lake in your yard, though.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Well, the problem is is that in May we went and purchased it. It was
a used pool. It’s very nice. We got it for cheap, however, it is sitting in our garage, and
we were hoping, I mean, that’s the only reason why we went with an 18 by 32 pool.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. So everybody understands that.
MRS. STOCKWELL-But, I mean, it’s not for luxury purposes. It was just we went and
saw it and it was cheap.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. So I would say your two viable places to consider it would be
up to the north, you know, parallel with the Gordon property, the other side of your septic
system away from your leach field, or the consideration of putting it where it said next to
the garage there, and I wouldn’t have a problem with either one of those, because I think
we’re trying to make things reasonable and not deny you completely. I mean, I think it’s
a hardship to tell people, no, I’m sorry, you can’t have a pool, when everybody else in
Town applies for one. So I think what I’ll do is table it until December, and if you guys
want more time, that’s fine, too, and as far as your plots on here, I don’t think you have to
have a whole new survey. I think you can reasonably copy that circle there and draw
that circle anywhere you want and come up with a proposal and maybe think about, you
know, what your neighbors’ concerns are, too. Screening is going to work, as far as I’m
concerned, with the arborvitae hedge. There’s people that live in a lot closer proximity to
their neighbors that have pools than these large lots down here. So I don’t think that I’m
going to like fall on the favor that it’s some horrible thing that’s going to occur in the
neighborhood.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Okay.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Given the fact that it’s Aviation Road and there’s all that
noise and traffic all the time there.
MR. OBORNE-When you do your resolution, please, in the body of it, make sure that you
th
put November 16 is the deadline for submittal of revised plans.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay.
MR. GARRAND-For December.
MR. UNDERWOOD-For December, unless you want to wait until January. I mean,
there’s no hurry. We’re not going to get the pool in the ground this year, probably,
anyway.
MRS. STOCKWELL-Okay.
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 58-2009 SHANNON STOCKWELL,
Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
th
4 Bennett Road. Tabled to December. The submittals should be in by November 16
for December. The public hearing will be left open.
st
Duly adopted this 21 day of October, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Clements, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Underwood
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Drellos
MRS. STOCKWELL-Thank you very much.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
James Underwood, Chairman
35