2009-11-09 SP MTG.#40
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD 11-09-2009 MTG. #40 318
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. # 40
NOVEMBER 9, 2009 RES. 346-347
7:00 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ANTHONY METIVIER
COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER
TOWN OFFICIALS
Town Counsel Bob Hafner
Budget Officer Barbara Tierney
IT Dept. Ryan Lashway
Water Supt. Bruce Ostrander
Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw
Cemetery Supt. Mike Genier
Sr. Planner Stu Baker
Director of Recreation Steve Lovering
Building and Grounds Supt. Chuck Rice
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
PUBLIC HEARING – 2010 ANNUAL TOWN BUDGET
PUBLICATION DATE: NOVEMBER 3, 2009
Supervisor Stec-We have got the public hearing on the 2010 Budget and as we often do
we have got a power point show hitting the highlights of the budget prepared. We will go
through a pretty brief power point presentation and then we will open the meeting to
public comment on the proposed budget. ( power point sheets at end of meeting)
POWER POINT PRESENTATION (See copy of slides at end of Board Meeting)
I.
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Supervisor Stec-The highlights, the summary slide, the 2010 Budget will be the 9
consecutive year without a General Town Tax, probably many of you are tired of hearing
me talk about it. I have had a lot of opportunity to talk about it over the last several
months. But, this year there were only thirty seven towns out of nine hundred and thirty
nine in New York State that did not have a General Town or Highway Tax. Next year
will be the ninth consecutive year that we have been able to do that. Some of the
highlights in the budget just to point out is that the budget does include as is the case for
all local municipalities and counties including Warren County approximately in our case
almost an exactly fifty percent increase in the New York State Retirement costs. Many
people know that the State Retirement System is a defined benefit plan which means
when the stock portfolio of the fund goes down the local contributions to the program
needs to go up. To us, across all, this is not just the General Fund but in all funds is two
hundred and forty two and a half thousand dollar increase. A fifty percent increase so
that is note worthy. Additionally there is only one vehicle in the budget and that is a
truck it is a large plow truck type of truck for the Highway Department budgeted a
hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. No other vehicles in the budget. There are no
pay increases for the Town Board Members in the 2010 budget. We are going to freeze
the 2009 salaries for Town Board Members, other elected officials, the Clerk, the
Highway Superintendent, the Judges will receive a three percent increase. But, the four
Town Councilmen and the Town Supervisor will not be receiving a pay increase.
Slide II
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This is the grant total, this is already reported in the Post Star the 2009 Budget for all
funds this is Water, Wastewater, Fire, EMS, Lighting, Cemetery, Highway the General
Fund, all the funds are up from twenty six point three six million to twenty six point
seven two million. Three hundred and sixty three thousand dollar increase or one point
three eight percent increase over all. As I mentioned previous like two hundred and forty
two thousand dollars is an increase in retirement costs, so if we did not have that fifty
percent increase in retirement you take two hundred and forty two thousand dollars off
that three sixty three you are looking at probably an increase of about a half of a percent
or so. Basically it is a pretty flat budget on the whole. As in years past I just updated the
slide from 2004 to 2010 budget you can see that the change went from twenty four point
nine million to the proposed twenty six point seven million and when you annualize that
over those years it is about a one point two percent increase. So, again over the last six
years over all have been pretty flat for all the budgets.
Slide III
This graphically shows that if you look at the 2004 spike and the first year there after two
thousand four, two thousand five and cut the total budget seven point four percent and
then in two thousand five and then you can see it trended basically steadily upward after
that and if you fit a straight line to that really from two thousand one to two thousand ten
you can see the straight line would probably fit in there fairly reasonably.
Slide IV
Portions of the total budget you have got General Fund, Highway Fund, Cemetery and
Solid Waste and you can see the proposed 2010 number compared to the 2009 number
and the change. Again, that General Fund of four hundred thousand dollars in the
General Fund is a little over a hundred thousand is the retirement amount. There is also
two hundred and forty thousand dollar debt payment that we have authorized earlier this
current year for next year that we need to pay on for Main Street. So, when you combine
those two basically the General Fund would have also been just over flat. The Cemetery
Fund although an eight percent change on a relatively small number forty one thousand
dollars, Barbara would tell you if you look, predominately that is a four percent union
wage increase and the fifty percent retirement increase in that fund that are basically the
lion share that is driving that number to be so high. Then actually you can see the
Highway Fund and the Solid Waste Fund are both actually down a little bit over last year
and a lot of that in Highway Fund is really due to lower energy costs.
Slide V
Then a similar graph as the one before but this one is not for the total of all funds it is for
the General Fund and you can see again two thousand four to two thousand five we cut it
pretty good and then two thousand five on forward has been marching along. But, from
that ten million eighty five thousand number in two thousand four to the proposed eleven
point four million dollars that we are talking about tonight it has gone up about two point
one percent on average over those six years.
Slide VI
Outside the General Fund the Emergency Services, Lighting, Wastewater and Water you
can see that Emergency Services that includes Fire and EMS and this is the
appropriations and it is up three point four percent in Emergency Services. The Lighting
District we kept the same, it is not going to change. Wastewater is up seven percent that
is not necessarily that their cost per gallon or treated or anything like that is up seven
percent as ..water it is that there are more users of the wastewater system has grown.
That seven percent increase is being spread out over more users, so it is not that the
average user is going to see a seven percent increase in their wastewater bill. Similarly
the water budget is actually down three and a half percent.
Slide VII
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Now talking about EMS tonight I carried this slide over from last year and just updated it
to show you that the Town has had success in finding a non property tax revenue for
EMS and that is the third party billing or bill for service. Two thousand five is the first
year that we got that started and you can see that number for two thousand nine the eight
hundred and seventy two thousand dollars is a year to date number as of this morning.
We are on pace in two thousand nine to exceed a million dollars in EMS billing,
essentially insurance money for ambulance. I personally am a believer in pay as you go
user base if you use the service those are the people that benefit from the service should
be the ones that predominately pay for it. EMS and bill for service is a good example of
that. We do not have a hard collection policy where we are shaking down people that
have difficulty to pay, in fact if there is a hardship there is a process in place with our
third party biller for people to make that sort of an appeal. So, but for those that do have
the Health Insurance to have the ambulance insurance on their Health Insurance which is
everybody that has the Health Insurance that ambulance whether it is Medicare or
Medicade or private insurance is paying the town for those ambulance rides. You can see
that since inception in EMS that is three and a half million dollars of revenue. Now, how
they have been used, well obviously we built the new EMS station for West Glens Falls
and that is a significant debt payment that they have right now but the other thing that we
have done is we have added a paid crew and actually that has grown over the years.
Right now seven days a week from six in the morning to six in the evening seven days a
week there is two paid crews on in Queensbury at any given time. So, we have better
response overall better service but actually the EMS property tax rate or tax levy is about
half of what it used to be. So, I guess one good piece of the news is that I think we have
budgeted about eight hundred and fifty thousand for next years revenue for EMS for third
party billing so that is non property tax money that is coming in to help pay for EMS, so
that is the good news story. I would just like to give an update on this on the success that
we have had there.
Slide VIII
This slide basically shows I want to draw attention to this the amount to be raised by
taxes for Fire and EMS combined. You can see that although our spending has gone up
we were able because of that EMS bill for service number to drastically reduce the
amount to be raised in taxes. So, even though we are spending more because we have
paid crews on you can see really from two thousand four, two point seven million to two
thousand ten, two point nine five million in those six years has gone up by significantly
less then inflation. Again, that is because we didn’t need to raise as much taxes. Again,
this is not just EMS it is EMS and Fire combined so actually EMS is making that curve
look pretty good when you combine Fire. But, you know, people I think generally view
Fire and EMS together so I put that slide together to show you the combined amount to
be raised in taxes for Fire and EMS so it is under control but the story is that a lot of that
control is the fact that we have had a pretty successful EMS bill for service program in
place. I think that is the last slide.
I will open the public hearing ( 7:16 P.M) on the 2010 Town Budget and just ask the
people to raise their hand and I will call on folks one at a time, come to the microphone,
these microphones not only amplify but they record for the purpose of the record. We
just ask that you state your name and address for the record.
Ms. Joan Parsons-Somebody told me a long time ago that when I got on the School
Board that if you were very nervous when you were speaking it meant that you still have
the courage of your convictions. So, I guess I have really got a lot of courage tonight.
Town Clerk Dougher-We need a name and address please.
Ms. Joan Parsons-Hillcrest Avenue, Queensbury This kind of takes us into a little
different direction. Using the two thousand nine figures for Queensbury as the two
thousand ten were not available and probably will not change much. And considering the
Town Budget to be the same except for the two million dollars lost in tax credit plus
considering the possibility of the County Budget to be up about six to seven million
dollars, the owner of a two hundred thousand dollar home in Queensbury is facing about
a five hundred and fifty dollar increase in taxes. Please help me if these calculations are
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wrong. I know the County is still working on its budget but the gap does not seem to be
lessening. I should mention that I was previously a thirty two year County employee, I
finished my last four years as Warren County Administrator and I worked on these
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budget items. I talked to Dan on August 17 and again on August 28 regarding the
2010 Queensbury Tax rate for County purposes. I was concerned over the effect to the
taxpayers over loosing the two million dollars sales tax credit. This has been a payment
made for several years to reduce the County Rate. I also wrote a letter to the Town Board
producing a spread sheet setting four scenarios and how the Queensbury County Tax
could be affected based on lesser sales tax credits being applied. A five hundred
thousand dollar tax credit would have resulted in a little of a fourteen percent increase
while a zero payment would have resulted in a little over a nineteen percent increase. I
asked the Town Board to consider the consequences of this action while there was still
time to act. My estimates show that based on each one million dollars raised in the
County either through increases in the actual budget or the Town not putting forth the tax
credit would raise taxes about thirty five cents per thousand. On a two hundred thousand
dollar assessed home that would be sixty nine dollars and eighteen cents for each
additional million dollar raised. Right now we are loosing the two million dollars from
the Town plus the County increase. Dan you assured me in our conversations that the
Town Board would make some payment by way of tax credit to reduce these taxes
however you wanted to see the third quarter sales taxes. I can understand that you
wanted to handle things all at once but caution that I felt that this would be dangerous.
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The September 1 deadline is passed for the Town to take action on any Sales Tax Credit
for two thousand ten and the only option now is to use the reserve funds which we are
now learning are not available. I urge the Town Board to consider that if reserved funds
are being spent elsewhere in the budget such as Corinth Road. This increase will be
devastating to many Queensbury Tax Payers. In my conversations with Dan and other
Town Board Members I pointed out that the Town while relying on reserve funds was
trying to pay next years expenses out of this years funds. In the past the current years
sales tax was credit against the current years taxes even with a thirteen percent decrease
in sales tax per the Post Star’s Article on Sales Tax, the number do not in my opinion
substantiate the loss of the entire two million dollars sales tax credit to reduce County
Taxes. A credit of next years sales tax against next years budget would in my opinion
have been the prudent way to help the taxpayers. Now that this is not legally possible to
do please review how you are spending your reserve funds and please reconsider this
option before you adopt your budget.
Supervisor Stec-Thank you Joan.
Ms. Parsons-Thank you.
Supervisor Stec-Is there anyone else that would address the Board on the Budget tonight,
yes, Betty.
Mrs. Betty Monahan-Sunnyside How close are you to what you projected in sales tax at
what is coming in now and what will come in for the fourth quarter?
Supervisor Stec-The quick answer to that Betty, the first quarter compared to two
thousand eight was down three point eight percent, the second quarter was down six point
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one percent, the third quarter deposit which went in October 30 last Friday was down
fourteen percent for Queensbury. So, right now we are projecting that we may be a full
half million dollars or more short in sales tax revenue for the year.
Mrs. Monahan-So, you have projected for two thousand and nine exactly what you got in
two thousand eight, that is what you put in the two thousand nine budget?
Supervisor Stec-The last four budgets we have budgeted the same number, eight million
dollars gross, in fact this year though because of these trends and we are concerned that
they may be continue we cut the revenue estimate for the two thousand ten sales tax
number to seven point eight five percent. It went down, we cut it a hundred and fifty
thousand. I am hoping that it is not worse. But, and we would be guessing what the
forth, the fourth quarter just started so I have no idea what the fourth quarter is going to
be worse or better. I mean I cannot imagine it gets much worse than fourteen percent.
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From my conversations and the numbers that I have seen that is an unprecedented drop
especially from the third quarter which is our big quarter. We were all hopeful that cash
for clunkers was going to bail the entire Country out or at least New York State the way
the sales tax works and we were hoping for an up quarter and each quarter this year has
gotten progressively worse.
Mrs. Monahan-The other thing is in your EMS budget third party billing is the figure that
we are looking at a net or gross figure. In other words your billing company gets a
certain amount I do not know how that is done if it is percentage or what?
Supervisor Stec-That number, correct me if I am wrong Barbara, that number is the gross
and our contract with the billing company is that they get ten percent of what they
actually collect. Not, what was billed, but whatever money we actually collect, three
point five million dollars, there has been two companies now so there may be a little but
roughly speaking the three point five million that we have collected over the last four
years rough three hundred and fifty thousand of that, ten percent goes back to the billing
company. So that is the way they make their money.
Mrs. Monahan-So, in two thousand and nine so far it is about eighty three thousand
dollars.
Supervisor Stec-Yes.
Mrs. Monahan-Thank you.
Supervisor Stec-They are happy, thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to
address the Board? Mr. Tucker
Mr. Pliney Tucker-41 Division Road, Queensbury I am going to talk on a touchy subject,
right away quick. The Town Tax that you have been harping on for the last four years,
can you find something else to talk about the next two years?
Supervisor Stec-We are going to do our best. We are going to talk about how we cut
expenses and found new revenue sources. I am tired about hearing myself talk about it
too. No one gets excited about it anymore that we are the largest town in the state that
doesn’t have a Town Tax. I do not know if you heard that
Mr. Tucker-What is that?
Supervisor Stec-We are the largest Town in New York State that does not have a town
tax.
Mr. Tucker-Ah come on.
Supervisor Stec-True, true statement.
Mr. Tucker-Answer the question you cancelled the Town Tax where did you get the
money, did you dig it out of your pocket? No.
Supervisor Stec-Sales Tax revenue and the fund balance from the sales tax.
Mr. Tucker-You really didn’t create a miracle then.
Supervisor Stec-The only people that can actually print money is the Feds.
Councilman Brewer-He did not walk on water if that is what you are asking.
Supervisor Stec-The Federal Government can print money, we do not have a printing
press in the basement we just get, in fact there was an interesting article in the Post Star
the last few days where Saratoga County is starting to question you know where does that
number come from. The State tells you here is your check and but no one knows the
backup or the detail behind that. I would like to think that the State is not holding back
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any pennies from us. Saratoga County it was just a couple of days ago in the Post Star
that they started wondering hey, maybe we would like to see where the, the backup
behind where this money is coming from.
Mr. Tucker-You probably could think anything you want the next thing is prove it.
Right?
Supervisor Stec-Yea.
Mr. Tucker-..where are we going, how much surplus not special accounts but surplus that
would be backing up the General Fund?
Supervisor Stec-The General Fund right now including all reserved accounts, all accounts
at the end of 08, which is the last audit that we had is about five point seven million
dollars. But, a lot of that is in Capital Reserve or other reserve funds. Un-reserved, Un-
restricted, fund balances a little over two point million dollars.
Mr. Tucker-How much are you going to have to take out of that to balance the Town
Budget?
Supervisor Stec-About one point three million. That is a big reason why we are not, and
that is why we are talking about not doing rebate this year, exactly.
Mr. Tucker-We are talking about a million dollar surplus when you get all done.
Supervisor Stec-Depending on how we finish the fourth quarter if we have a good fourth
quarter for sales tax, historically and how we finish on the spending size. We have a
budget we usually come in under that budget so that will be on the plus side but yea, I
said it in the workshop two weeks ago when this came up briefly we are looking at an
under a million dollar surplus. That is a little lean. If we have another bad year like we
did this year that is going to be an issue.
Mr. Tucker-I noticed that you were not in the article that was in the Post Star this
morning when all the Town Supervisor’s would write in how they were balancing
Supervisor Stec-Not all of them were bragging a lot, several of them were raising their
taxes. There has been a story on Queensbury.
Mr. Tucker-Nothing real serious, but I was glad to see that you were not in there, because
Supervisor Stec-I was too.
Mr. Tucker-What they are bragging about and then bingo we are going to get slapped real
hard and there isn’t any special fund for that, right?
Supervisor Stec-No.
Mr. Tucker-Just the wallet. Well, I do not know, I think you have done a pretty good job.
Supervisor Stec-Thanks Pliney. Is there anyone else that would like to address the Board
this evening? Mr. Cathers
Mr. Lincoln Cathers-47 Overlook Drive, Queensbury I think it’s a good job on the
expenditure side of the budget. It is hard to quibble that they have done a good job there.
But what seems to me most budgets have an income side too and I think it would be
enlightening for people to see what the income side is and also like Pliney was
mentioning people are very concerned about the reserve funds. I think they ought to be
identified in any budget that is presented.
Supervisor Stec-They are in the budget and I just ran over the highlights of what the gross
numbers were but there is a revenue portion, this is the budget right here there is maybe
fifty or sixty pages of it.
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Mr. Cathers-Well why couldn’t we have a summary of the income side of the budget
where we balance off all these expenditures because it seems to me that is what people
would like to hear because that could well result in an increase in taxes. The money has
to come from somewhere and it is nice to see how the budget is made to balance because
I think you are required to have a balanced budget aren’t you?
Supervisor Stec-Yes.
Mr. Cathers-Ok, well, just I don’t know maybe it is something that you can provide later
or
Supervisor Stec-Yea, I guess we could probably put something together like that.
Mr. Cathers-Thank you.
Supervisor Stec-You are welcome. Is there anyone else that would like to address the
Board this evening? I would like to take this opportunity to thank several of the
Department Heads that are here in attendance this evening, usually they are here and
usually Town Employees outnumber the public and I think that is true this year although
not as lopsided as in years past. But, Ryan Lashway our IT guy who is probably the
youngest Department Head that we have lucky guy, Bruce Ostrander in the back right
corner over there water and Mike Genier our Wastewater guy and Paul Naylor retired
Highway Supt. not currently employed by the Town of Queensbury, former Councilman
Pliney Tucker, Steve Lovering Parks and Rec., Mike Shaw from Wastewater, Stu Baker
from Planning, and Chuck Rice from Building and Grounds. So, I thank you all for
another solid year effort and I am glad that you are here tonight to hear the presentation
see where we are, where we are going and where we need to be in the future. People are
certainly concerned about revenues and expenses and we need to continue to work on that
and the Board was good to work with as usual in this budget process and I appreciate
their efforts on the budget and their guidance as well. Is there any other comment?
Councilman Metivier-Just that Mike Genier is with the Cemetery Commission.
Supervisor Stec-What did I say?
Councilman Metivier-Wastewater.
Supervisor Stec-Mike Shaw, Mike Genier, one of these days I will get it right Mike, I am
sorry.
Councilman Montesi-Who do you think is the largest sales tax provided in our town?
Supervisor Stec-You mean what property? It is either the Great Escape or the Mall.
Councilman Montesi-How about Walmart?
Supervisor Stec-You are right Walmart is right up there.
Councilman Metivier-Have you projected with the new Walmart coming in if that will do
anything?
Supervisor Stec-No. One, it is still an if and two by the time it gets built it will probably
be late in two thousand ten it will not impact two thousand ten. It is not a silly question,
but the answer is I do not think that it is going to impact two thousand ten. The Harvard
MBA’s that run Walmart and oh by the way the Harvard MBA’s are the ones that run the
World economy look where they have gotten us but you know, they are making a
decision to make this investment, build another Walmart thinking that they are going to
make more money. To me the pot of disposal income is only so big whether you have one
Walmart or five Walmart’s you know are you going to generate more sales and thus more
sales tax their math says that they will I hope they are right you know it kind of seems a
little counter intuitive to me but I am not a Harvard MBA running Walmart.
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Councilman Brewer-One of the largest corporation in the world.
Supervisor Stec-One of the very largest. Any other public comment? Close this public
hearing (7:35 PM)
RESOLUTION ADOPTING ANNUAL TOWN BUDGET FOR 2010
RESOLUTION NO.: 346, 2009
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi
WHEREAS, the Queensbury Town Board conducted a public hearing on
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November 9, 2009 concerning the proposed 2010 Preliminary Budget and all interested
persons were heard, and
WHEREAS, the proposed 2010 Preliminary Budget sets forth the proposed 2010
salaries of the Town’s Elected Officials as required by New York State Town Law §27,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Town Board hereby authorizes and directs that
the 2010 salaries for the Town of Queensbury Elected Officials shall be as follows:
TOWN SUPERVISOR 67,276.
TOWN COUNCILPERSON (4) 17,382.
TOWN CLERK 66,442.
TOWN HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT 67,161.
TOWN JUSTICES (2) 42,969.
and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby adopts the 2010 Preliminary Budget
presented at this meeting as the Town of Queensbury Annual Budget for 2010 with the
following modifications:
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and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk
to enter the Adopted Annual Budget in the minutes of the Town Board proceedings, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that a copy of the adopted Annual Budget for 2010 is attached and
made part of this Resolution, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby states its support of non-profit and
other community organizations by providing funding as outlined in the Schedule of
Contributions which is contained in the supporting documentation to the 2010 Adopted
Budget, and
BE IT FURTHER,
RESOLVED, that the Town Board further authorizes and directs the Town Clerk
to prepare and certify duplicate copies of the Adopted Annual Budget and deliver one
copy to the Queensbury Town Supervisor so that he may present it to the Warren County
Board of Supervisors.
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Duly adopted this 9 day of November, 2009, by the following vote:
AYES : Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES : None
ABSENT: None
Supervisor Stec-Announced that the second meeting of the night will begin in the
Supervisor’s Conference Room - discussion with two Fire Companies…right after this
meeting.
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING TOWN BOARD MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 347.2009
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Ronald Montesi WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Anthony Metivier
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RESOLVED
, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Town
Board Meeting.
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Duly adopted this 9 day of November, 2009 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Respectfully,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury