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2009-11-23 SP MTG.#43 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 363 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #43 NOVEMBER 23, 2009 RES. 363 7:00 PM TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ANTHONY METIVIER COUNCILMAN RONALD MONTESI COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER TOWN OFFICIALS PRESENT Wastewater Supt. Mike Shaw GUESTS G.F. Post Star Engineer Tom Jarrett Representatives of Queensbury Vol. Fire Company Supervisor Stec-All members are present except Councilman Metivier who will be here shortly. DISCUSSION: Sewer System I & I Project Update – Mike Shaw Supt. Shaw-(on file Jarrett Eng. District Sewer Map) reviewing system Central Queensbury, Quaker Road Sewer Dist. …established flow meters..concerned over water infiltration into the sewer system the I&I, Inflow and Infiltration… Engineer Tom Jarrett-Started establishing flows at what is referred to as the Hub at Meadowbrook Pump Station, last fall 2008, we did a study where we used man hole two two, which takes all the flow from south of Quaker Road and manhole four forty four Meadowview road area and manhole four one which takes the flow from Bay and Meadowbrook Road. Meters were placed in each manhole for two months looking at flow which includes rain fall. We start at the Hub and isolate the area where we think there are problems and move into those sections to get more detail. We did not find a clear pattern last fall or this spring with rainfall vs sewer flow. Councilman Montesi-Questioned the spike in two, two. Engineer Jarrett-South of Quaker Road. Supt. Shaw-That takes in all of the City side of Bay, Fort Amherst, Homer, Garrison, Lafayette, Foster Avenue. Supervisor Stec-What happened in November where you have a big jump in two, two? Engineer Jarrett-That leads into what we want to do now, since we did not find clear correlations last fall or spring, we decided that rather than put meters in this fall without ground water information to see if the sewer flows are correlating with high ground water period we thought it was a waste of money to do that. Let’s get some monitoring wells in to check ground water levels, then we can monitor rain fall, ground water levels and sewer flows and see if we can see a better correlation in the spikes in the sewer flow. Supt. Shaw-Monitoring will show the inflow which is the result of rain, ground water…in the last couple of years we suspected the problem is infiltration, as the ground water table comes up into a point where it is leaking in. We plan on in the next couple of weeks is put some monitoring wells around. (Hovey Pond, Della Honda, 290 Bay Road, Willowbrook pump station, and Glenwood Avenue the Town Court Office, Highland Pump station) the wells will be fifteen to twenty feet deep when set up to start monitoring the wells. Maybe we are getting ground water from other sources? We have SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 364 TV’d the whole system at least once and parts of it twice and to date we have yet to find a cracked pipe or leaky joint. Occasionally, we have found a manhole leaking and we have fixed that. Engineer Jarrett-We are looking for a gradual trend, compared to the sharp spikes. Supt. Shaw-Reviewed how meters are rented and the time factor …Flow meters cost approximately forty five to five thousand, I will purchase one this fall out of my budget now and in the spring I will buy another one, we will have two, we may rent the third but by the end of next year I hope to buy another one. When we own our own meters if we hit a wet period we can start putting them in or in different spots. Councilman Brewer-What is the cost of the infiltration that we pay in dollars to the City? Supervisor Stec-That is an unknown factor. Councilman Montesi-It could affect our capacity to grow. Supervisor Stec-The City is concerned about exceeding their own capacities. The City is asking do we have an infiltration problem. Supt. Shaw-We are one percent of their problem on the worst day we are sending them seven hundred thousand gallons more then what we usually do. They have asked us to look into this. Supervisor Stec-How much will the wells cost to dig? Supt. Shaw-To do all six, a one day shot, we think we can do it for two grand. Councilman Brewer-When will you have an update? Supt. Shaw-Probably by June. (Councilman Metivier entered the meeting during this discussion) DISCUSSION: Great Escape Holiday In the Park – Occupancy Tax Funding Request Supervisor Stec-They have sent us a packet of information like you have submitted to the County for consideration there. I understand that the occupancy tax committee which I am not a member at the County did view this Holiday in the Park event very favorably and my understanding is the gee this is great we would love to fully fund your request but we do not have enough cash to fully fund it we will give you everything that we have left which was about twelve thousand dollars. Representative of Great Escape-It was twelve thousand three hundred that they said they st would give to us, come in and make an application before December 1. and we would look favorably on funding this for the next season also. Noted this is a whole new venture for the Theme Park, since the Hotel opened in Feb. of 2006 the Hotel has contributed one million five hundred and five thousand five hundred and seventeen dollars to the occupancy tax fund. This year so far through the first ten months the contribution has been three hundred and twenty nine thousand eight hundred and fifty four dollars. Supervisor Stec-The Town’s share of the three hundred thousand is twenty five percent of that is eighty thousand dollars just from the Great Escape. The purpose of the bed tax is to generate additional tourism. Councilman Brewer-How much are you asking for? Representative of Great Escape-Twenty five thousand from the Town. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 365 Supervisor Stec-We would need an agreement, we need to know that you are using the funds we give you for promotion of tourism. Councilman Strough-Some point in time you need to explain to us what our contribution is going to do to generate the extra attendance to qualify for the twenty five thousand. Representative of Great Escape-This is a whole new venture for the Theme Park and the market money that would be provided by the Town and the County is a reasonable expenditure of the bed tax money. The purpose is to promote tourism and this kind of event. Representative of Great Escape-Noted that they will be able to tell where people have come from for this event. This is a signature event, that will cap off the longest season in the Great Escape’s history. Great Escape has made large significant investments in the properties. Very positive feedback for this event. Described the opening event, the lights, etc. nine rides open for the event and seven new live shows, fifteen different characters… Supervisor Stec-Is the request for this year or are you planning to come back and ask for support on a year end year out basis? Representative of Great Escape-I think we would be inclined to come back to the town year after year. Representative of Great Escape-We have invested over a million dollars in this event specifically. We are the fourth park doing this program, we would like to see the event continue and prosper. With any event you need to build equity and awareness and people have to experience and get behind it. Councilman Brewer-First starting out I have no issue supporting it as time goes on and you are more prosperous then maybe the Town would back off a little bit. I do not want to subsidize a business, I want to help you do everything you can to attract people to this area but I do not want to become part of your budget. Representative of Great Escape-I understand and we would not budget that way either. Lets hope this thing reaches a maturity. Councilman Montesi-We do not require the detail that the County does. Supervisor Stec-The County has a standing committee on this that handles million plus dollars … Representative of Great Escape-I can tell you it will be a thirty second television ad, it will run on cable more than likely it will run in Western Massachusetts near our Springfield Mass. Property with intent of driving the season pass base of attendance up here to this event and spending the night. I can provide the proof of performance. Councilman Strough- I would like to see the assessment of the actual attendees, out of the area attendees, marketing, advertising and actual admission and revenue from this event as an assessment of our investment. The other thing we insist upon is that the Town logo be on all literature and TV advertisement, that it is Great Escape, Queensbury. The last thing we have heard grumbling from some of the Queensbury Central and EMS people that service you previous owners have always sent letters of appreciation and offered them an opportunity to share with their families for free the facilities because these are volunteer workers and they are putting hours and hours helping you, sure your taxes help pay for equipment but their time isn’t paid for it is volunteer. In the past Great Escape has made an effort to do this and I wish we could use this opportunity to extend a letter of appreciation to Queensbury Central and WGF EMS. Representative of Great Escape-I do not think this is an appropriate discussion for here. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 366 Councilman Strough-I am going to disagree with you, you are entitled to your opinion, but. Representative of Great Escape-We did offer an number of tickets to the volunteer organizations over the course of the summer, it is a program that we run from year to year. Councilman Strough-Some of them are unaware of that. It is just a matter of good will. Supervisor Stec-I understand your concern and I certainly understand and agree with John’s point that it is certainly a nice jester I am not sure that it would be appropriate to tie them together one dependent on the other. Councilman Strough-This provides the opportunity for them to get extra attendees…one you are offering the volunteers something that you are saying thank you very much for your volunteerism and secondly you are spreading the word locally this is a great event. Councilman Montesi-Noted it could be a substantial number. Councilman Brewer-I understand what you are saying, John is it the volunteer for the whole town or is it? Councilman Strough-No, just Queensbury Central and WGF Ems. The volunteers that service the area. Questioned if there are any problems with the TV and literature ads saying Queensbury? Supervisor Stec-I imagine a lot of your print run is already done for the season but not all of it. Representative of Great Escape-We would tag the spots that we are airing with these dollars with the whatever logo you asked to be put on the end. The twelve thousand from the County was used to buy Time Warner Cable spots as well and it has the Warren Co. Tourism logo on it. Supervisor Stec-In the Counties process they do make that hard connection, you need if it is printed materials to put the County Tourism on it. Representative of Great Escape-I think part of what encouraged this to come up is the tremendous amount of money that is being provided to the bed tax every year by this company, they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year marketing the area the hotel, water park, Great Escape and all the other hotels, restaurants and all of those entities that rely on the Theme Park are beneficiaries, so we did not think it was an unreasonable approach to come in and say we are spending all this money to generate all this revenue we got this event we started and we do not think it is so unusual to ask you to help us in this regard. Supervisor Stec-I will let you guys address perhaps outside this meeting but hopefully John’s third point but the first two points that John brought up that I did not hear any issue with is that we would like in the agreement it would probably be best housed in the agreement the breakdown of the statistics, one where the money is being spent and two, either the breakdown of what you ended up seeing as far as attendance and where they came from, basically an analysis of our investment and what it did for you. The second one would be a Queensbury tag on printed or other media that the money is used for. Is that agreeable? Representative of Great Escape-Yes. Spoke about the great relationship with the volunteers and we do try to support them, we have issued tickets to those families for the last two years. Councilman Montesi-Questioned why they ask for twenty five and not twenty eight that would make a nice round figure of forty thousand between the County and the Town? SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 367 Representative of Great Escape-We originally came in for a total of fifty and the County only had twelve.. Supervisor Stec-Noted that the Chapman received seventeen thousand and the Hyde is ten thousand. We will entertain a motion at our next regular meeting … need to know how the funds will be spent and at the end of the season what it did for you and the Queensbury tag… Representative of Great Escape-Thanked the Board for allowing them to come to the meeting. DISCUSSION: Queensbury Central Volunteer Fire Company Budget Supervisor Stec-Noted that engine 315 will be paid off sometime this year as well as this month you finish paying off your original building mortgage on station one both of those total an annual debt payment of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars…you have been talking about an expansion, about seventy five hundred square foot addition and you have a need for boiler replacement and roof replacement on the original structure and desire for a brush truck to replace a 1981 truck. The Town is looking for a multi year contract so we have some assurance we will have a reasonably stable contract and fire tax going forward. The hundred and fifty thousand dollar for debt that is going away from the truck and mortgage basically will allow you to cover going forward the building addition the roof the boiler and the brush truck. You have given us a two year budget that is relatively flat. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Present building not enough space for vehicles and short on storage space, the present building has some issues such as energy consumption…described the new proposed addition, showing site plan and drainage … Councilman Strough-Why do we need three more bays? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-The number of pieces of equipment that we have right now, we are at a point where stuff is outside and storage is a huge problem. Councilman Strough-Will this give more room in Station II? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Station II will still have the two pieces that it has now but there is no room to work up there because of the compressor in the back of the bay and our goal is to bring that air compressor down to Layafette Street. Councilman Brewer-How many trucks do you have? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Seven Councilman Strough-Are you keeping seven vehicles, what is going to happen to 317? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-If we cut back on our number of engines pump capacity that would change the ISO rating substantially. Councilman Strough-Are we replacing 317? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-I cannot foresee replacing that truck for some time. Councilman Strough-We are trying to put together a vehicle replacement program so there is nothing in the next five years? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-I think five years would be stretching it, more realistic would be three years, replacing 316. We have a truck committee, and what SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 368 we would be looking for in a new truck…the fire company made a decision at our last meeting we voted that we felt we would put that off and work on the building expansion. Councilman Strough-Are you going for a building that is greener than the present? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We are looking at as many green options as possible. Insulation packages that are above code..new roof will be more of a green product…cost of addition - $1, 331,000. new roof-$131,000 Interior alterations in existing building listed the alterations… total for project 2.1 million… noted there is a ten percent contingency built into our plan at this point. Supervisor Stec-If this is acceptable with the Board when would this be put out to bid? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We have to run it through site plan review with the Town and get our DEC permits in place, we are hoping to bid the project the spring of 2010. We would like summer construction. Supervisor Stec-If the Town Board says that the budget and the contract is going to factor in a 2.1 million worth of repairs and upgrades etc. then next spring you will have an actual cost and then you will come back to the Town saying that you are ready to borrow and now with the actual dollar amount…reviewed how North Queensbury’s contact was handled… Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Two point one million…how to pay for this…reality we will go for a year before payments start, you would pay us the hundred and fifty two, that we look at that as a down payment our initial seed money for the project…we would borrow one million seven eighty two (estimate) put in five and a quarter percent we do not know what the rate will be. This is projected at eighteen year loan, could change to twenty years looking to change the term and interest rate. Looking for no increase in the existing budget related to this project. It would be flat on the debt service side. Supervisor Stec-The replacement of the 1981 brush truck $112,000. they do not need financing from the town because they have eight four in the existing vehicle fund, they will use ten thousand from donated funds and they cut into their own operating budget for the balance. You will need a resolution from the Town Board to allow the vehicle restricted funds, we could do that at the time of the budget resolution… Councilman Brewer-Do you think it is a wise thing to do with the way the economy is to spend two million dollars? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Do you think it is a wise thing to do? Sure, we are helping the economy, funding jobs. Councilman Brewer-Money is tight, we are trying to cut budgets… Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Right now there is probably not a better time for us to go out and get a good price on the construction. Supervisor Stec-Spoke to the Fire Company on a three year budget. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-The reality is you are imposing risk on us…it is easy for you to say you want stability because we want a stable budget that is the responsible thing to do but I want to make sure that everybody realizes that all it is doing is shifting risk. I know that you have always said if you have a problem come back. Councilman Strough-What we are trying to say is, are we talking about a budget with Queensbury Central that we manage really flat in the next three years that is all we are asking for. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 369 Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-I think you are imposing excisable amount of risk on a smaller organization who can’t manage the risk the way a larger organization like the Town of Queensbury. Councilman Strough-All we are asking for is to submit a reasonable budget for three years and we have told you that if there is anything extraordinary that you need more money for you can come back to us. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Who is to say the five of you are here in three years, this is the challenge that we have, we are going to be here in three years. Supervisor Stec-North Queensbury has a three year budget, Bay Ridge has agreed with the three year budget and South Queensbury is working on preparing a three year budget if we can find the numbers to work with West they would sign on for a three year budget, too, for me it is a must have. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We are not all equal. If I was to advise the Fire Company in terms of a third year I would expect a larger increase in the third year then I would expect in a two year, because you have shifted the risk to me, there is a value to that risk. Supervisor Stec-Repair and maintenance on Building and Grounds-$67,000. on average year what is that? Is that janitorial; snow plowing, lawn mowing, fertilizing, sprinkler system maintenance and repair, roof repairs…. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.- That is janitorial, snow plowing, lawn mowing, fertilizing, sprinkler system maintenance and repair, roof repairs…. Supervisor Stec-Roof repairs will go away? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Some of it could go away but how do I know that if that goes away some thing else doesn’t go. Supervisor Stec-You are getting a new heating system, in 2011 it is $69,000..you are not anticipating your repair and maintenance to go down in 2011? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-No, I think it is going to go up. We have another 7500 square feet to maintain. Supervisor Stec-Small equipment, 67,000 what is it? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Gear the items that we wear into fires..we replace those on a five year cycle. Maintenance on air packs. Supervisor Stec-What is fire fighting equipment? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-Is the purchase of equipment, small equipment is anything under a thousand… Councilman Brewer-Equipment over a thousand you budgeted $55, 000 every single year …I have a hard time grasping that…when does it end? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-It doesn’t it is a continuous cycle. We have fifty five air packs, they cost five thousand each, if you get onto a replacement cycle for fifty five air packs at five thousand each year you are replacing two to three air packs. You have all the equipment for extrication…it might be ladders…small tools or hose the next year. Councilman Brewer-In my mind you would put down small equipment and parentheses tell us what they are. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We can give detail on this. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 370 Supervisor Stec-What about insurance, snow plowing, janitorial services and getting together with the other fire and ems companies to bid them out as a group to get a better rate? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-I personally have no problem with that. Supervisor Stec-Councilman Metivier is heading up an effort on that for insurance can you get a copy of your policy to Tony? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We can do that. Supervisor Stec-Third year handle? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-I think five percent. Supervisor Stec-Can you get the first year lower? I was thinking six ninety six. How does the Board feel about the building project? What you have proposed is a seventy three hundred square foot addition plus roof work with canopy, interior work particularly in the meeting room and new boilers and new heating and control systems, all that $ 2.1 million … financing percentage vs years, keeps total debt payment of about the same as it currently is now, which is going away…where we are with the other fire companies and insisting on a three year budget, it gives us a known stability going forward…it also guarantees that we will not be talking about 316 until the fourth year…that would give us a little more certainty…How does the board feel about the capital project? Councilman Strough-I would feel a lot more comfortable if we got a reasonable three year budget with going ahead with the project. Supervisor Stec-What I think, for a three year, 2010 an even 696,000 2011 an even 717,000 and 2012 738,500. that is two and a half percent on the first one, two point nine on the second one and three percent on the last one. Councilman Metivier-When do you think you would be in the new building? Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-If we could get started May of next year it would be ready by the end of the year. Councilman Metivier-Should we wait to see what the costs are? Supervisor Stec-That is part of their risk for wanting an expansion. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-If you want to stay under the three percent just give us a nice even seven hundred thousand that is less than three percent starting at seven hundred thousand, another 3% on seven hundred thousand 721,000 and 2012 four percent 750,000. Councilman Metivier-You are not going to get four percent. Supervisor Stec-3% would be 742,600 and I would be willing to go $743,000. Now the Board will mull this over. The figures being 700,000 - 721,000 - 743,000 that is what both sides will consider. We are adamant on a three year budget. This would allow you to order the $112,000 brush truck by the end of the year upon the agreement of the contract and it is going to get your architect started and the timing of the bids… Councilman Metivier-I think it is a good time to start… Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-The costs will never go down, every year we wait on the expansion it will go up. Eventually you guys are going to have to deal with manpower. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 11-23-2009 MTG.#43 371 Supervisor Stec-Not this year or the next three. Representative of Queensbury Central Fire Co.-We have nothing but praise for the gentlemen at the Great Escape they have treated us very fairly and very fair to our department which has sole responsibility of covering that park for fire protection. RESOLUTION ADJOURING TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 363, 2009 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Meeting. rd Duly adopted this 23 day of November, 2009 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Metivier, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury