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2010.02.17 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 17, 2010 INDEX Area Variance No. 6-2010 Steve and Debbie Seaboyer 1. Tax Map No. 227.13-2-36 Area Variance No. 7-2010 Babajani & Mama, LLC 19. Tax Map No. 296.13-1-17 Area Variance No. 8-2010 Jamie Walther 23. Tax Map No. 226.19-2-34 THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. 0 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FIRST REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 17, 2010 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT JAMES UNDERWOOD, CHAIRMAN ROY URRICO, SECRETARY JOYCE HUNT BRIAN CLEMENTS JOAN JENKIN MEMBERS ABSENT RICHARD GARRAND RONALD KUHL LAND USE PLANNER-KEITH OBORNE STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I’m going to call the February 17, 2010 meeting of the Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals to order, and starting out I want to quickly go through our procedures, once again, for anybody that perhaps is new here. As we handle each application I’ll call the application by name and number. The secretary will read the pertinent parts of the application, Staff Notes and Warren County Planning Board decision if applicable into the record. Then we’ll ask the applicant to present any information they wish to present to the Board. The Board will ask questions of the applicant, and then we’ll open the public hearing. The public hearing’s intended to help us gather information and understand it about the issue at hand. It functions to help the Board members make a wise decision. It does not make the decision for the Board members. There will be a five minute limit on all speakers. We will allow speakers to speak again after everybody’s had a chance to speak, but not for more than three minutes, and only if after listening to other speakers, a speaker believes that they have new information to present, and, Board members, I’d suggest that because we have the five minute limit that we not interrupt the speaker with questions while they’re speaking. Rather we should wait until the speaker has finished his five minute period and then ask the questions. Following all the speakers, we’ll read in any correspondence into the record, and then the applicant will have an opportunity to react and respond to the public comment. Board members then will discuss the variance request with the applicant. Following that, the Board members will have a chance to explain their positions on the application, and then the public hearing will be closed or left open depending on the situation, and finally, if appropriate a motion to approve or disapprove will follow. Keith, we’re only five, so what’s the deal? Have we got to have a super majority? MR. OBORNE-You’ve got to have four. MR. UNDERWOOD-You’ve got to have four to win your case tonight here. MR. URRICO-But they have an option to withdraw it. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. The other option will be that, if after presenting your information to us, if it looks like you’re not going to get your four to one vote and you’re perturbed about that, we can table it for a second sitting of the Board, with a full Board hopefully next month. MR. OBORNE-No guarantee. MR. UNDERWOOD-No guarantee because people are gone on vacation and we don’t have any alternates at the present time. So, I’ll leave you that option at any point in time. NEW BUSINESS: AREA VARIANCE NO. 6-2010 SEQRA TYPE: II STEVE AND DEBBIE SEABOYER AGENT(S): DEAN HOWLAND, JR. OWNER(S): STEVE AND DEBBIE SEABOYER ZONING: WR LOCATION: 83 ROCKHURST ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES CHANGES TO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED STORMWATER PLAN. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM REQUIREMENT THAT INFILTRATION DEVICES BE LOCATED A 1 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MINIMUM OF 100 FEET FROM THE SHORELINE OF LAKE GEORGE. FURTHER, APPLICANT REQUESTS FLOOR AREA RATIO RELIEF. CROSS REF.: SPR 8-2010; BP 2008-508; BP 2006-781; BP 2006-006 AV 81-2005; NOA 6-2007; SPR 33-2006; SPR 61-2005 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: FEBRUARY 10, 2010 ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY: YES LOT SIZE: 0.20 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 227.13-2-36 SECTION: CHAPTER 147, 179-4-030 DEAN HOWLAND, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT th MR. URRICO-I’m going to read in a letter that Craig Brown wrote on December 14 that sort of summarizes the application. It says, “Dear Mr. & Mrs. Seaboyer: I am writing to you with regards to the above referenced matters in order to convey my findings of a review of a letter and plans submitted to this office via a letter dated December 4, 2009 from Tom Center of Nace Engineering. I have reviewed the as built septic plan, most recently revised on July 21, 2009 as well as the undated sketch made by Dean Howland which purports to show the modified Stormwater Management System that Mr. Howland installed on your site in favor of the approved plan as designed by Nace Engineering. I note that there are still several items that are not consistent with the Site Plan Review approval issued to you by our Planning Board on March 18, 2008, as such, you will need to reappear before the Planning Board in order to have the unapproved designs reviewed and approved. Additionally, the stormwater infiltration devices that have been installed within 100 feet of the shoreline of Lake George will require an Area Variance from our Zoning Board of Appeals. The following items, as noted in my July 28, 2009 letter to you that are still of concern include: Based on the “as built” plans submitted, it is not possible to determine the finish ? floor elevation of the structure. A Stormwater structure (catch basin) has been installed in the driveway with ? piping leading to the south. While documentation (Howland sketch) has been provided, the December 4, 2009 Nace Engineering letter notes that this system was never inspected by their office. The infiltration trench originally proposed to be at the southeast corner of the ? garage has not been installed and the driveway grading that was supposed to pitch to this infiltration trench has not been completed as designed. A rock filled area along the southerly property line has been constructed. What is ? the purpose of this item? This item is not part of the approved plans and no documentation of the structure has been provided. The creation of retaining walls between the house and the shoreline has resulted ? in the placement of fill within 50 feet of the shoreline as well as additional hardsurfacing within 50 feet of the shoreline. These items are not part of the approved plans and no documentation has been provided. Additional flagstone walkways have been created above and beyond the ? approved plans. Also, the area under the wood deck has been constructed as a patio, rather than grass area. This item is not part of the approved plans and no documentation has been provided. These items are considered to be additional hardsurfacing within 50 feet of the shoreline. The Stormwater basins have been not been constructed in the approved ? locations as shown in the Nace Engineering, PC Stormwater Management Report of June 2006, with revisions of September 2006 and March 2008. The Stormwater basins have been constructed with overflow features that will ? allow for a direct flow of Stormwater into Lake George, over the seawall. Additionally, the basins have been constructed in very close proximity to the seawall that contains several weep holes to allow water to flow from behind the wall. The functionality of the basins is in question. The southwest portion of the house appears to have had an additional overhang ? area constructed on it. Additionally, the area under the deck appears to have been enclosed. These items are not part of the approved plans and no documentation has been provided. How do these areas affect the Floor Area Ratio calculations for the site? The railroad tie curbing that has been installed along Rockhurst Road extends ? nearly to your northerly property line. This item is not part of the approved plans and no documentation of the structure has been provided. The grading of the lot in the area between the home, road and the northerly ? property line does not match the approved plans. As noted in my July 28, 2009 letter to you, the significant number of outstanding items and changes from the approved plan will require a modification to your approved site plan. Also, as noted above, the inclusion of stormwater infiltration devices within 100 feet of the shoreline require an Area Variance from our Zoning Board of Appeals. Such 2 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) modifications must be reviewed and approved by our Boards at one of their regular monthly meetings. Our records indicate that no Final Certificate of Occupancy has been issued and your Temporary Certificate of Occupancy expired on November 13, 2009. As such, any occupancy of the building is in violation of §88-19 of Queensbury Town Code. It is my expectation that these items will be addressed by no later than January 15, 2010 in order to avoid a formal enforcement action with the Town of Queensbury Justice Court. Should you have any questions or comments regarding these findings please do not hesitate to contact this office.” Now, last night, the Queensbury Planning Board issued a resolution making a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for Area Variance 6-2010, Site Plan 8-2010, for Steve and Debbie Seaboyer. They voted, and it was 6 to 0, one absent. STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 6-2010, Steve and Debbie Seaboyer, Meeting Date: February 17, 2010 “Project Location: 83 Rockhurst Road Description of Proposed Project: Applicant requires approval after the fact for changes to previously approved stormwater plan that include infiltration devices located less than 100 feet from the shoreline of Lake George and Floor Area Ratio relief for additional expansion. Relief Required: Applicant seeks 547 square feet of additional FAR relief and relief for infiltration devices installed and located within 100 feet of the shoreline of Lake George. Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law: In making a determination, the board shall consider: 1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. Moderate impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as changes to the approved stormwater system were not designed by a licensed professional. Concerning Floor Area Ratio relief, moderate impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as the structure is larger than what had previously existed. 2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. With the project already completed, the time for methods feasible for the applicant to pursue may be limited to reconfiguration of stormwater systems. 3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The requests for 97 feet or 97% relief for the north infiltration device/Rain Garden and 95 feet or 95% relief for the south infiltration device/Rain Garden may be considered severe to acute relative to the ordinance. The request for 547 square feet of additional Floor Area Ratio relief for a total FAR of 37.8% may be considered moderate to severe relative to the ordinance. (Concerning FAR relief, please see explanation on zoning changes and project history below). 4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.Moderate impacts on the physical and environmental conditions of the neighborhood may be anticipated as any disturbance along the shoreline may be considered detrimental. However, a site plan with E&S and stormwater controls designed professionally may mitigate any potential concerns. 5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self created. Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.): S.P. 8-2010 Modification to an approved site plan - Pending AV 6-2010 Infiltration devices w/in 100 ft of shoreline/FAR relief - Pending BP 08-508 Reconstruction/renovation of SFD - Issued 10/28/08 3 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) NOA 6-07 Determination regarding the completeness of their application ZA Upheld 8/29/07 SP 33-06 Site Plan Review required for expansion of a nonconforming structure and hard surfacing [continuation] within 50 feet of the shoreline Approved 3/18/08 BP 06-781 Issued 7/7/08 BP 06-006 Septic system Issued/Revoked 1/11/07 AV 81-05 Applicant proposes residential remodeling of the existing 2,299 sq. ft. single- family dwelling, adding 71 sq. ft. to total proposal of 2,370 sq. ft. Relief requested from front, side, and shoreline setback requirements as well as for the expansion of a nonconforming structure. Approved 2/15/06 Note: Two subsequent extensions since approval BOH 1-05 Alternative wastewater system - Reinstated 7/7/08 Revoked 9/11/06 Approved 1/25/05 Staff comments: The parcel in question is located in the Rockhurst area adjacent to Lake George. This area is characterized by densely packed single family homes with some seasonal camps on parcels ranging in size from 0.06 acres to 0.80 acres; average lot size is approximately 0.25 acres. Any and all development, renovations and site disturbance should be reviewed and professionally designed. Soils: The predominant soils unit on the parcel is Charlton Fine Sandy Loam (ChB), 3 to 8 percent slopes. According to the Warren County Soil Survey, this soil has moderate to moderately rapid permeability with the seasonal high water table at a depth of 60 inches or greater. These soils are well suited for wastewater absorption fields and the establishment of vegetative cover, especially with a liming program. Erosion can be a hazard when cover is removed and steep slopes are present. Floor Area Ratio relief Area Variance 81-2005 approved a 2,756 square foot SFD w/ attached garage. ? According to the applicant, the project now requires 601 square feet of additional Floor Area Ratio relief. Note: Staff calculates the following required additional relief: a. Mechanical Room 240 square feet b. Patio below north deck 152 square feet c. Front porch 95 square feet d. Roof overhang on south west corner 60 square feet 547 square feet total Note: The crushed stone below the south deck has not been factored into the FAR calculations. Prior to the Zoning Code change in 2009, mechanical rooms, basements without exterior egress and areas not typically used as living space over 5 feet in height were not counted toward the calculation. It appears the previous FAR calculations were erronous as the front porch measuring 95 square feet and the patio below the north deck measuring 152 square feet was not calculated. Further, the applicant did build a 3 foot roof over hang to the south west corner that was not approved. Note: Any roof overhang greater than 18 inches count towards the FAR calculations. Per § 179-2-010 Floor Area Ratio is calculated as follows – All square footage, as measured from the exterior of exterior walls of all structures on the property, including all floors of the structures, garages, basements and attics with more than five feet of ceiling height and covered porches. Building square footage does not include open decks, docks and that portion of covered docks extending over water. SEQR Status: Type II – No further review required” MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Mr. Howland, you also included a pretty extensive, multi- page letter of a narrative explaining all the changes that have been made to the stormwater management, from the originally approved ones, and I don’t know if you want me to read that all into the record? MR. HOWLAND-No, I don’t. No, that was just for the application, for your knowledge. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, I would assume that everybody here has significantly reviewed it. I did note some disturbing elements in that narrative, you know, primarily pointing the finger towards the whole Rockhurst structure out there, as it exists with the road up 4 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) through the center of all those properties out there, and I think probably the most interesting one I saw was the one where you had dug down and you ended up with that huge flow of water volume out of there, like three feet wide and a foot deep, that ran for 24 hours, and I was going to ask you, Keith. I mean, to me, it almost seems like there’s a perched water table out there, like possibly all those septic systems on the back side of the hill next to the road, you know. MR. OBORNE-It certainly sounds like there was certainly some piezometric pressure going on at that point. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. MR. HOWLAND-There’s one thing I can explain to you. The soil. You said it was a sandy loam. It’s not. It’s extremely heavy. It allows no flow of water. If you step on it when it’s wet, you have to take a scrub brush to get it off, your shoes, your hands, or whatever. It is, I don’t know if it’s because of all, this the dumping ground for 10, 12 lots. All the water, this is below the grade. So it’s the soil. What we were amazed at is just how thick it is. Nothing really went through it, and that was part of the homeowners problem is that their house, it was easier to go through the house than it was to go through the soil. We dug that out. It was, we relieved the water that was underneath the existing garage. We didn’t take the garage foundation down. That pre-exists. The floor level is sort of self-explanatory. We didn’t do anything to it. It was always there, but that’s where the water came from, because that was our last taking, or last removal type of thing. I think, well, I should probably say my name, too. Dean Howland. I’m agent for the homeowners. If I can go through just some of this other part, because there’s some misconception about like the Floor Area Ratio. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I’ll get to that. MR. HOWLAND-Okay. I’m sorry. MR. UNDERWOOD-Keith, I just had a question for you. I mean, we both have a geology major background. So, you know, I’m thinking like gumbo tills and stuff like that where it’s that real fine heavily compacted stuff that has no flow through it whatsoever. It’s almost like peanut butter that dried, you know, and it’s eight feet thick or however thick it is on the point there. MR. OBORNE-Yes. You know that any County survey is a general, broad brush, and especially with these soils that are surrounded. They’re on a peninsula. Most of those soils in that description, so to be more inland or off the shore at this point. MR. UNDERWOOD-But, you know, in a sense, when you’re thinking in a greater sense, not just of your project, but of everybody that’s up there, the impact of all those septic systems up there on the, not on the foreshore, they’re all on the back side for the most part, as they’ve been re-done towards the roadside up there, you know, I think you’re creating a situation where you may not have any perc, you know, once it’s in the ground, it stays in the ground. MR. OBORNE-These were running about five and a half minutes, I believe, somewhere around there. MR. HOWLAND-Well, the perc test that you did, they did one prior, but then we put in the prescribed soil for the leach field, and Tom Center’s had us remove it and put in something with a greater perc. It was just, I mean, it was a large trench, and I can tell you that when water got into it, well, you didn’t notice it overnight, that it was going towards anywhere else. Eventually it’s going to perc, but. MR. UNDERWOOD-I mean, you do have some height above the lake there at the high point of the ridge as you head out there. MR. HOWLAND-Sure. MRS. JENKIN-How deep was that trench? MR. HOWLAND-I’d have to look. I’ve got the plans. About four feet, when they removed it. MRS. JENKIN-And that’s in the front of the house? 5 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. HOWLAND-That’s right along the edge of the road. I’ve got the map here for you. You can see. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. As far as handling the stormwater on site, you know, the original structures as they were designed, I know they were supposed to be set back further from the lake than where they ended up, but at the same time, I think what we’re looking at is, is that a major impact going forward or is it a minor impact, you know, moving those areas, because if you are closer to the lake, the stuff is going to perc in. It’s going to travel through less soil before it actually hits back into the water again, when you’re thinking about recycling water through the ground. We’re looking at a situation up there on the whole point, not to point fingers and say you’re the only one up there who’s responsible for whatever goes wrong up there. I don’t want to do that in any way, shape, or means, but in an urban density like we have up on the point there, with the road, and the impermeability on the road up there, all that runoff, and I think your letter really succinctly points the finger at the problem is a universal one up there, and that you’re the recipient of a lot of extra runoff from elsewhere off site that ends up on your property because of the slope of the road up there and stuff like that. MR. HOWLAND-Well, this is the lowest point. MR. UNDERWOOD-Right. MR. HOWLAND-And we’re below the road. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, and I think that, you know, in that sense there, there’s a multiplier effect that falls on you that’s not your fault, you know, by any means, and in looking at what you’ve done up here, and looking at how it’s been done, I think you really spent a lot of extra time and thought in the process of doing it, as far as trying to handle it and make it a reasonable, that you had some reasonable recourse to what was happening on the property, and certainly, all these things to happen once you started building and that, I mean, maybe you would want to give us a sense of why these things got moved around a little bit. MR. HOWLAND-All right. Well, maybe I can. What I did is I did, over here, it’s a little hard to see. I can show you this better if you want to look at it, but this is a bird’s eye view of the roof. This is our very, let me get situated here. This is our very north roof. This is the very south roof. That was the approved stormwater. That’s all that was asked for. Okay, and this was done, this was a long process starting in 2004, and this is what you came up, that’s what the two retention ponds were for, just to receive water from that part of the roof and that part of the roof. This is the main part of the roof which goes to the lake. So, again, having the one, we had put in, I have these pictures here. The south retention pond was right here. We had actually put it in. We hadn’t put the gutters up yet. When it rains off of that road, it wasn’t less than two, three seconds and it was already overflowing that pond. That’s when we started to re-think it, because, again, the water we’re talking about, the water on site is fairly easy to take care of. There’s not a lot. It’s the water that comes off site, and I can explain that because Keith had the aerial view of things that changed from the original, well, when you first were talking about this type of stormwater management, and certain things that happened, and they happened when, well, some of the stuff happened when we were there, and we can see the additional water that got thrown at us. So, we came here, and again, the runoff from up above, on this particular side, in this past Spring, during a good rainstorm, but especially during those downpour rainstorms, between these two houses, we get from six inches to 10 inches of water coming down at us. On the north side, before we took out the blacktop driveway, which was one of the last things we did, we probably did that April, on that side you would get, it was blacktop, it was 12 feet wide, and you’d get from two inches to four inches of water off the road, every rainstorm. So those were things that weren’t even discussed. Again, I was only here for the first two or three meetings, and then this went on and on and on. So until you see where the water comes from, because this takes about, it’s between 10 and 12 properties that the water comes down their driveway off their front lawn, goes into the road, and either comes down on the south side or the north side. There were two recent things that had happened. One was the house across the street. I have to mention this. They had a parking lot above their house that pitched to the house and down towards the lake, and they used to park perpendicular. They made a change and it looks really pretty, but then they’ve started parking parallel to the street, and there’s a curb there. So the water comes in, it just super charges before it comes out the south on their parking lot. It goes about 50 feet past my customer’s southern boundary, turns around and comes down and hits the Clark’s house and comes right back at us. The second thing that really amazed me was the septic system to the north. This had to be approved here because they dug down 6 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) nine feet the whole yard and ended up filling thirty feet. That changed the flow of the water, which some of it used to come, it would come across their driveway, come across their front lawn. A lot came on to the Seaboyer property, but some went down towards the lake. Now it all gets thrown out into the road, and the big difference was a lot of it got thrown on the opposite side of the road, went into the parking area on the opposite side, and ended up coming at us. I mean, it’s an unbelievable amount of water. We were just, I happened to call the Town Highway engineer, I said, if you can’t do anything, we have an idea of how to help your stormwater problem, because this summer, when that septic system went in to the house to the north, during those heavy rains, we had to stand outside with plywood to prevent it from going into the neighbor’s garage to the south, and a room below. That’s been there, that house has been over there 50 years. When we left at night, nobody was there, we’d sandbag it if we were going to have a storm coming up, just to keep the water out. So, we came up with an idea of adding, whatever you want to call it. We were just trying to take care of the water coming off Rockhurst Road that was thrown at us. So, what we came up, we backfilled. This is a heavy, heavy clay soil, as far as, we call it clay. It acts like clay. That might be a sandy loam with clay mixed into it, and we had to put crushed stone. Our variance was to pick the house up. The house is no larger than was asked for the first time. It’s just that the Floor Area Ratio is done differently. The deck, or the concrete slab beneath the front deck was always there. I have pictures of it. It was approved originally and it’s still there. I have pictures before, after. We have a roofline here, it was submitted on the approved drawings by Craig Brown. It’s on the original house. We didn’t change it. I’m sort of skipping around until I get back up to what we did on the Floor Area here. I have pictures of the original house. Here is the overhang on the south side. It was there. Here is the patio. We built it exactly. All we did was we changed, we shortened up the retaining walls because they fell over when we took the slab out. It’s got a fiberglass roof. It’s waterproof. Now we pick any water up off of that and we go into our crushed stone which is around the house, and I’m going to get to these other pictures. So I’m going to come back to here, and around the house we put these dry stack walls, and that’s where our water comes out. So we basically built around the house and around, just to help this water out, we built a French drain, let’s call it. It’s all open. Water comes out. We just put it into the crushed stone to slow it down and then we release it, but to get back to the manhole that’s on the driveway. We put that in, we ran, I’ve been doing this for a long time. We get in really, really difficult sites around the lake, not only in this Town, so we always look at what Mother Nature throws at us, and in this particular case it’s a lot of water off the road. What surprised us was how much it changed when that septic system went in to the north. That went in probably July, or maybe started in June, June, July and August. We just were getting a lot more water than we had gotten before, enough so that when you stood in the middle of the road during the heavy rain, instead of being two inches up on my sneaker, it was up over the top of my sneaker. That’s just, that’s in the middle of the road. So when we called the Town Highway Department and said, gee, we’ve got to do something about it. I mean, we can’t just let this stuff go into the lake. So I said, you know, we have a way to help you, and I asked him, can we cut the road and can we put a gutter curb in along the road, because the neighbors to the north, with the pitch of the road, whatever you want to call it, when this water runs, if you put sand in it, it’s just going to absorb all that water from, a lot of that water from the runoff. The same thing with our leach field, which is right here. We have this curb. This shows the gutter right there. So what we, we came up, we told him, he said, look it, we’re going to put, we put a little depression right here that is one inch lower than a little depression that’s right here. We set everything with a laser. So when you have that big rainstorm, not a normal rainstorm, they release a little bit here, then we release a little bit here. The rest of it goes down and we pick it up in our manhole. We have a relief valve that goes, that runs into a trench that, well, where this original trench that Craig mentions on the side of the house. Water goes downhill, and the water went to the left. It didn’t go towards this particular trench, and then our overflow is, if you look at the lay of this land, and you can see it, everything’s graded according to the plans. It’s pitched, we send the water away from the leach field, and we come around here and down here we just sort of spread the water out over the lawn. In the end, we did such a good job, we don’t get any water in any of these quote retention ponds at all. The most water we’ve seen on any major rainstorm, we had one in August, and you had one a couple of weeks ago, you might get a foot diameter, about that thick, in this pond. The south pond we get absolutely nothing in. We’re just catching up, but the front lawn is squishy as can be from two to five days after it rains, because it’s flowing out like it should. So we came up with an idea for the Town Highway Department thinking that we’re taking care of a problem and not putting any water. We have a drywell that has a bottom so you can see all the, we’re taking a tremendous amount of the salt and sand off the highway. It’s right there. You can see it. It’s only four foot deep. We can clean it out, and we went on a, again, every time we did something, we were there the next time we had a major rain to make sure that we were handling it, and, again, not forcing water to our neighbor, and not forcing water to, well, 7 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) either neighbor. In the front, they said that we added fill. We actually removed fill. Where this is here, this used to slope all the way down to, almost to where the 20 foot setback is. We’ve removed it, again, trying to flatten out. What we did is, as the water came around the corner on the south side, we dispersed the water out flat. We ended up putting in, I have other pictures of it, but you can see we have a rock ledge there. When we dug out fill there, and we did the rock ledge, we have about that much crushed stone behind it. We have a little (lost word) of mulch. That stopped the water from overflowing, and it goes down. You just don’t see it getting to the ponds anymore. It does eventually, but it’s in the ground. So everything we did we watched our results. Again, because we’re talking a tremendous amount of water. Now the neighbor to the south, there’s no harm. He’s not going to flood out now. Especially winter water. I always worry about when snow banks come, because that’s your real problem time, and we’ve guttered and picked up all the water on the roof. A lot of it is underneath here. When we dug out that crap soil, we backfilled that with crushed stone. We built this. It lets the water out. So we pick up every bit of roof water. We even guttered this little two foot roof here. Craig was talking about it. I changed the very end of it to a hip so I could go around, because we just can’t take anymore water there, and I put that downspout into a solid pipe, and I sent it back around the far side of the garage, because on the back side of the garage we have two feet of crushed stone, you know, at the bottom we might have three feet wide at the top. So we did this for highway water. We didn’t have to do any of this for on site water. I mean, we had very little stormwater. I mean, it was nothing. I mean, it was nothing to pick up that amount of stormwater, and that’s pretty much the gist of why we did it. I also thought it was a highway problem. I went to the Highway Department. We have one other problem, too. I’ve been in business 39 years. I’ve been doing stormwater on every project. We only build on the lake (lost words) every now and then lately, but usually only build on the lake, and I’ve done stormwater on every house, whether we had to or not. In that time, I’ve been inspected once by the Park Commission because I requested that they do it. They weren’t going to do it. This was the early 80’s. Number Two, I was required by a permit in the Town of Lake George to have the engineer of record inspect it, a very extensive stormwater management on a large piece of, two acre piece of property, and third, Bolton just started to inspect. I built two garages that aren’t within 500 feet of the lake, but they inspected the stormwater. Other than that, no one ever inspected stormwater management I put in, ever. I was told by Craig that now you’re going to start, in late August, that they’re going to start inspecting the stormwater management, which is good. I think that’s good, but we thought we added to it. We thought we made it better. So that’s my gist on that part. As far as the Floor Area Ratio. MRS. JENKIN-Before you go on to that, are you saying, I think you did say that people to the south of you, they’re not getting any water runoff now, or they do? MR. HOWLAND-No. It still comes across their driveway the way it’s pitched. I think I have a picture of it. I’ve got one. I think I’ve got one that’s not on here. I don’t have, but I can show, it comes up, but it only comes up to within about four feet of their door, like it used to, but we’re talking the water that actually what they do is they’re getting the water that’s on the east side of the crown of the road. It goes down past, about halfway down their property, and then there’s a crest in the hill, the road goes up a little bit, and it turns out and comes back at their driveway and then comes in between my customer and their customer. MRS. JENKIN-Yes. I was noticing, when I was out there, that your driveway, it slopes down toward. MR. HOWLAND-It slopes down. It’s always done that. It’s always done that. MRS. JENKIN-And I just wonder if the runoff, and then it looks like there’s a space of about a foot that is almost like a trench that goes down. I wondered what happens to that water. MR. HOWLAND-Right. Well, that’s the water, that’s the ten inches of water that we have really slowed down. You had two questions. One was the, you have a question on there about, it’s basically small river rock on the neighbor’s property, that south property. If you look down you’re going to see sod and it’s hollowed out so that we take all our water. In August, that owner asked DEC to come up, we had not put, we hadn’t guttered anything. It was probably June or July then. We hadn’t blacktopped the driveway, and we hadn’t done anything, and at that point, we were required, which the whole driveway would pitch and send water to the customer at the south. It would basically get in that little trough that you saw, and they were getting an unbelievable amount of water from this septic system to the north, not the septic, but by putting water out on the road. So 8 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) they came up and they met with DEC. I was part of the meeting, and we described, well, we see the problem, too. We just can’t keep on sending water that way, because, I mean, we’ve got water that deep that we have to take care of. So we just brought the right side up like three inches and we pitched it back across on the back lawn, well, you can see it. So we send all the water from that crown of that, from the very right hand, or left hand side of the building, all the water goes there. It always sloped. They originally wanted to, I don’t know, it just didn’t, we couldn’t make the water slope towards this one trench no matter what we did unless we picked up the driveway and pitched it all towards the garage, but now the only thing we send over there is that last six, eight feet maybe in width, a very little bit of water, but that water stays on my customer’s side, and we take half the water that comes down from the road and they take the other half, and that little rocks that we talked about, they had small number three stones there, and every time it rained, it sent them down to their lawn we’d get so much, and it would just wash mud and stones were just going into the lake. So, we cleaned it out, dug it out a little bit. We put, their stones back. We put new ones on top, and we put filter fabric underneath it. So when the water comes down, we don’t have the erosion anymore, and their water goes down and spreads out over their lawn, and we aren’t getting any of it, but before it would shoot right over the seawall and just go into the lake. Every time, and the same thing on the north side. It just went directly in the lake. MRS. JENKIN-I have one other question. The front yard where you have the septic next to the road, when you, you dug that out, and what did you put underneath where the sod is? Did you add soil to that? MR. HOWLAND-Nothing. No. MRS. JENKIN-You didn’t add soil to that. So that’s still that gumbo soil? MR. HOWLAND-Yes, back here. What they did is they took, this is your septic system’s here, and goes all the way over to the driveway, just about to the driveway. That’s the only area that they filled. That’s the highest. No water goes to that anymore. That’s why we put this curb in here because we were just, when you dig out a heavy soil and you put sand in it, it’s just, Mother Nature just wants to go there. So we don’t allow anything to go here, and this, well, this the neighbors put here just to delineate the property, but they’re over here a little bit, and they were sending, during the big rainstorms, we’d get seven, eight yards of sand down in our lower pond all the time. There wasn’t any, there still isn’t any stormwater or silt fence or nothing done. So we just sort of barricaded it off, but, no, we didn’t, we actually removed probably, I thought it was only two tandem, the excavator said he took out about six tandem loads. We brought back some other material, but we took out more than what we brought back in. I mean, we took out all the crap around the house. I mean, it was just, and we brought crushed stone into that, and quite obviously, this, when you came down here before you dropped down four feet, and we filled this area in here, but not here, only by the house. Do I have an original picture? MRS. JENKIN-Okay. So you did fill. MR. HOWLAND-We filled from about here back, but not here, okay, and then this was a blacktop area, and there was, I don’t have a picture. I might have it with me here, and then there was a wall that came down on this particular area here. Now I wanted to go around and, this was your approved map here, and we were, this is where the three foot, it’s only two foot deep, but that’s where the overhang is on the lakeside of the garage, which just happens to be the master bedroom, was the master bedroom, is the master bedroom, and this shows the concrete that was there before and approved, and we were allowed to leave all this stuff. We took all this, we left, well, we re-poured the concrete. We actually made it smaller. We removed this because we didn’t have a frost wall underneath that part of the foundation. We had to fix that, and we took this all out because eventually all the water came to here, and we were just dumping miles of water down (lost words) dock. So we dug out the decks and we put about six inches of crushed stone, just to slow the water down. It’s working. We don’t get any water over anything, but that’s basically the gist of why we did this. MR. UNDERWOOD-How’s the functionality of the aerobic system you’ve got on the septic? MR. HOWLAND-It seems to be working really good. They’ve checked that. It’s a nice system. I had never seen it before. Works pretty good. We had the guy come up. We’ve had him come up about every six weeks. It’s not required to do that, but I’ve never seen one before. So we wanted to learn about it. The owner wanted to learn about it. So when you pick up the top, you look in, we know if there’s something 9 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) malfunctioning on it, but it seems to work pretty good, and again, they don’t have a lot of people in it. It’s a two bedroom house, basically, just two people and their daughter and her fiancé come up every now and then, but that’s the use of the house. So it’s not a major type of thing. I have some, I have pictures of the seawall. These are the weep holes. The owners lived there 10 years. Nothing’s ever come out of it. There’s no effervescent and there’s no, usually if you’ve got water dripping out over stone it stains it, turns it dark. Whenever you’ve seen it, and that’s you know water’s running. We don’t know if it’s plugged in (lost words), we just scraped everything down. We assume it could be just the soil. It could be whatever back, but again, we don’t really get water to these items. We put this crushed stone in down. This is the north retention pond, and you see where this was? The only time we put anything over it is when we took seven yards of sand, which we took numerous times from the neighbor’s septic system because they didn’t have anything there to stop the fill from coming down. Now, but that’s where the sand came over the wall and landed on the steps below. Water didn’t, but, well, it must have but we just didn’t see it, but since then we haven’t done it, and we ended up putting, to protect the flowers there, which, if we didn’t fix this water problem, these flowers wouldn’t be here. Just too much water, but we put mulch in. That’s why they’re growing because they’re going to add more to it to get it denser, and we thought, well, if you get water in here, we watched, before we had opened up the manhole up above, we were still letting all water come off the road, just like it did before, and we noticed that it floated the mulch. It never got out of it. So we said, well, let’s re-line something, so if it does get, if water does get in there, we’re not going to have floating mulch that we’re going to send in the lake. So, so far we’ve worked through every storm there was and we had a lot in August. We had some torrential downpours in August. We got up at 4:30, the excavator, my son, and myself, and we all went up there and just watched how the rain was, you know, we just wanted to make sure that we aren’t causing, that’s why we did a few different things because we thought we could handle the water in a little different way, rather than putting it directly into the lake. That’s basically what we did. MRS. JENKIN-Is there bedrock underneath, by the lake, right on the lakeshore? MR. HOWLAND-Well, they have a seawall. There’s a little bit of rip rap in there, but it’s probably below, I’m going to say mean low water of probably two feet. Mean high is probably three feet down, but that’s, they have, if you go down here, you go down about a foot below that water. Mean high is just about up to the top of the cement there, but they have, it’s just riprap. I’m assuming that that was put in over a period of time because it is a sandy bay, but it used to have a rocky shoreline along there, when you’re out further on the lake, and if you go out three more houses, it gets a lot deeper than it is around this house. They’re just about at the end of the buoys where you can tie your boats off. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Do you guys want to ask any questions, or do you want me to open up the public hearing first and see if there’s any questions from the public out there? MRS. HUNT-Yes. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Is there anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter? Do you want to come up? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED KATHY BOZONY MS. BOZONY-Good evening. Kathy Bozony from the office of the Lake George Water Keeper. That was a great illustration of what you did. It helped put everything in perspective about the conditions of the peninsula there and what you had to deal with as far as creating this new home. The homes on this peninsula are very large for the small lots, and that’s one of the problems. What came to mind, other than a couple of the things I’d like to share with you, is the fact that the peninsula is pretty void of trees, and trees absorb thousands of gallons of water, and when you look at even the lawn on this property, the lawn may have sod, so it probably hasn’t done a lot since it’s been laid, but grasses produce about two inches of root depth, and so water that goes into the leaf of a grass and goes down into the roots sits there at two inches. There’s, especially if there’s no weeds in your lawn that have deeper depth for their roots, there’s nothing that pulls that water down in. So it looks like maybe the entire peninsula could help each other if they looked at putting some mixed type canopy and some vegetation on the peninsula, as opposed to all the manicured lawns that are sitting there. A couple of the other things 10 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) that I wanted to mention, looking at the existing property, we would recommend that there be some sort of a buffer on the shoreline between the rain garden at the north end of the property, and then there’s lawn, and then the seawall. That would help as well. The critical thing about vegetation is it not only infiltrates stormwater, brings the water down in to recharge groundwater, but it also cleanses the water, and that’s the whole point of building rain gardens far away from the lake so that water infiltrating down is absorbed to soils and the nutrients are taken up by the plants before it gets back into the groundwater and into the lake. Again, a mixed type canopy with native trees, shrubs, perennials, ground cover would lessen the impact of the rainfall, and as it pounds down the heights of that canopy actually it breaks the fall, but also absorb huge amounts of water. This, I notice this is part of the updated zoning, as far as the Site Plan Review 8- 2010 and Area Variance 6-2010, which would suggest that restriction of fertilizer use, per the Zoning Code, would be in effect. I’m not sure how that zoning actually is in effect for existing, but for this one anyway, again, the reason for native species that were conditioned with the original Site Plan Review approval is because native species do not need any fertilizers or pesticides in order to become healthy and vigorous plants, and I notice there are nice species of flowers in the rain gardens, but more substantial vegetation may really help the stormwater that’s on this property and coming from the rest of the peninsula. I guess that’s about it. Thank you very much. MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else from the public wishing to speak on the matter? Any correspondence, Roy? MR. URRICO-No correspondence. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. What are your thoughts? Do you guys want to throw any ideas out for your general preference as to how you want to proceed? MR. CLEMENTS-Yes. Do you want me to start? MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. MR. CLEMENTS-I think that it’s kind of hard to pin the whole problem on Rockhurst on one property, and really it looks like this was a very difficult project and that you’ve done a very good job of trying to control the water there, and it looks like actually you’re controlling water that maybe should have been controlled by somebody else, and I went down and walked around today and looked at the project, too, and it looks like you’ve done a good job. I think maybe more vegetation there around, all over the whole peninsula would be a good idea, but from what you said, it sounded like they were going to plant some other plants in there as you go along anyway. It’s a difficult problem out there, I think, for everybody. So, as far as from what I’ve heard so far and what I’ve seen, I’d be inclined to approve this. Those are my feelings. MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you want some conditions put in about trees being planted down in front by those catch basins, some bushes? I mean, we have a suggested list that’s in the regulations now. That’s something that, you know, they can get together with and propose. MR. OBORNE-The previous Site Plan did have a buffer on it. I’m sure that when it gets to Site Plan Review, that will be also discussed, but by all means, bring that up in your deliberations. MR. UNDERWOOD-I’m just throwing out an idea here. I assume that at some point before there was anything on that point it was all white pines out there, like any other natural shoreline you’d see along the southern or northern basin that’s undisturbed. You have a wide variety of things you could be putting in there, oak trees, hickory trees, as are found further in on the peninsula on Seeley Road. MR. HOWLAND-Used to have a lot of birch. MR. UNDERWOOD-Right. MR. HOWLAND-I only know it because my family owned it, way back when. MR. UNDERWOOD-But, you know, birch trees are not long lived species. They’re, you know, they’re basically pioneer species. The white pines, you know, even though people don’t like them, they grow into giant white pine trees, but, nonetheless, they do belong on Lake George, and I think it would be hard to argue that point, that a couple of trees planted there would make a difference, and I’m looking at the area up around where your 11 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) new lawn area is up on the garage side there, too. I mean, you could even put stuff up high on the hill there by the septic field. I don’t think it’s going to. MR. HOWLAND-You could behind the septic, away from the road. MRS. JENKIN-I notice that there is a tree planted. I didn’t know what it was. There is a tree. MR. HOWLAND-Well, there’s a tree there, and that’s right over where the gas tank was. As far as down the property, down on the lakeside, all the plants that were requested, plus, were installed. It’s just that it’s got to grow a lot. I went to the Lake George Association. They have like a ground vetch that you can use down, and that would be good, too. MR. UNDERWOOD-But I think low growing stuff, you know, I mean, I think what we’re looking for is something that’s going to substantially suck water like a big tree, which in the summertime it’s going to transpire significant amounts of moisture out of the ground, and it may be to your benefit to do that, too, because it’s going to alleviate that wet situation you have on the lawn down there all the time, too. MR. HOWLAND-Well, the wet situation only happens after, we’re talking those major, where you can’t get out of your car and you’re soaking wet rainstorms, and it goes anywhere from two to five days. MR. UNDERWOOD-But I think certainly, too, I mean, we can’t always anticipate that summer’s going to be dry during the month of August during heavy usage, and, you know, we’ve had those summers where it rains incessantly up there and it’s wet period the whole time you’re there. MR. CLEMENTS-Could I just say one other thing, though? MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, sure. MR. CLEMENTS-I think that’s a good idea to put vegetation in. However, I’ve just run into a situation with a relative where a tree was planted too close to the septic system and the roots got into the lines, and, you know, you create a mess there, too. MRS. JENKIN-It depends on what kind of tree it is. MR. CLEMENTS-True. MRS. JENKIN-That’s why I wanted to know what kind of tree was up there. MR. CLEMENTS-So I, you know, want to say that you’ve got to keep that in mind as you go forward with those kinds of things. MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. All right, Joan, why don’t we go on to you. MRS. JENKIN-Yes. That was my question, and I was going to ask you or anyone, is because of the space that’s down there and those catch basins, that would it be a good idea to plant a tree that’s going to grow into a large tree? MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, absolutely, because a catch basin is not like it’s a, you know, I mean, the absorption field of a catch basin is, some of it percs into the ground, you know, in a major event it may overflow or something then, too, but I mean if the tree was placed between the front of the catch basin and the lake, I mean, you could drive along in your boat and see how close the trees grow to the water up on Lake George. It’s significant. MRS. JENKIN-Yes, they do. MR. HOWLAND-There were low growing trees that we had to take out. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. MR. HOWLAND-I mean, we didn’t have to, but we were told that we had to take them out. MRS. JENKIN-Why? 12 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. HOWLAND-That was part of the Site Plan approval. MRS. JENKIN-But you don’t know why they were told to take them out? MR. HOWLAND-No. Actually they were probably the only thing, there were pretty good sized trunks on them, but they were the low growing spreading yew type of thing, but I mean, they were, they had a massive trunk on it. It was the only thing that could stand the water onslaught. I mean, when the water came off the road, I mean, it just whacked them. MRS. JENKIN-Because I did notice down there that there are a few plants that have been planted, but they don’t look like they’re actual shrubs. They look like they’re plants. MR. HOWLAND-That’s the native plants that were requested. MRS. JENKIN-They’re kind of ground cover plants, which would explain, and I thought that was a good explanation, that the grass only, the roots only go a couple of inches down so they’re only getting water. So I definitely feel that there needs to be more in the front, even if it does get in the way of the view, but right now there’s almost nothing there, and probably you could do a lot of plantings down there. I still have a concern about this, it was about a foot wide, there’s the fence, there’s a foot wide, and then you have your rock walls that come around. MR. HOWLAND-Coming back up on the side? MRS. JENKIN-Right down near the water, and it just seems to me as if that’s a natural conduit for water just to run right down into the lake there. MR. HOWLAND-Well, what happened when, before we did anything, you get this stream of water coming down. MRS. JENKIN-Right. MR. HOWLAND-And what we were doing, besides going straight in the lake, 90% of it was going on the neighbors to the south, after it got to that point. So what we did is we said, well, we’ve got to equalize the water. You’ve got to take half. We’ve got to take half, and that’s why we did that, to bring, because before there was a stone wall with a step, and everything went down the steps, but we had to take that out, and we built something that would let water go through it, but that was to provide, because all of a sudden, when that happened, they have a flower bed on the other side of the fence, south side of the fence, and we were just, the water was coming on, just taking their beds out. So we put the stone wall up to keep more water on our side, let’s say, the Seaboyer’s side of the line, and we flattened everything out and spread it out over a longer period of time. MRS. JENKIN-But that’s to the north, that’s to the north side of the rock wall. I’m talking about the south side of that rock wall. It looks like there’s just a trench down there. MR. HOWLAND-It’s just a little thing, but the water doesn’t go there, from our side. MRS. JENKIN-It doesn’t go there at all? That’s interesting. MR. HOWLAND-No, the water, it splits where that rock is, and we send it down the steps, that’s why we did them on purpose. MRS. JENKIN-So it does actually go down those steps and into the lawn? Okay. MR. HOWLAND-Yes. We did that on purpose, and then we sent the other one. MR. OBORNE-The picture that’s up right now illustrates what’s going on up there. MRS. JENKIN-Right. That’s the one I’m talking about. Because it looks like it would just keep going down beside the steps and going right down into the lake. MR. HOWLAND-But as I said, when you have a good rainstorm, before we did, you see the last step up and the rock to the left of it? MRS. JENKIN-Yes. 13 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. HOWLAND-The water was above that height. That’s how much water came at us. Okay, and now what it does, it gets down there and then you have that little rock ledge which is, you can see the rocks on the right hand side, right there, and then they get so much water, it comes around the curb and it’s deep enough. They take half and we take half. We spent a lot of time watching that and setting that up, but that’s why we did that. MRS. JENKIN-My other comment is, I completely agree and concur with the fact that there’s large homes on small lots, and everybody wants to build absolutely the maximum that they can and leave very, very little for any kind of natural phenomenon that goes on in the way of weather. Snow, we’ve very lucky this winter that we don’t have the snow, but if the snow piles are deep and you still probably are going to have trouble in the Spring, but I think you’ve done a tremendous amount of work, obviously you really have and you’ve looked at it scientifically and you’ve done all you can to take care of the water on your property and also the water that’s coming from other places. That you definitely can be given credit for. The other thing I noticed today, and didn’t know whether to say anything, but when I was standing on the lawn, on the north side of the lawn, I could definitely smell a septic smell. Now, it was a sewer smell. I don’t know why. It might have been coming from the other neighbors. MR. HOWLAND-On the north side? MRS. JENKIN-On the north side. MR. HOWLAND-It would have to be the neighbors. There might even be a vent over there. I’m not sure. I’m not sure about that. Sometimes if you disturb rock usually you get that mineral, like septic smell, but I don’t know what that would be, but. MRS. JENKIN-Well, it’s definitely a septic smell, but I couldn’t believe that all the work that you’d done on this one, that it would be coming from. MR. HOWLAND-I don’t think so, and the customers, they have a sick relative. So they haven’t even been there for two weeks. So you wouldn’t smell anything from there. MRS. JENKIN-So the Eljen units don’t provide any kind of a smell or anything? MR. HOWLAND-It’s a pressurized system that, it releases very little water at the time, and you blow it into the ground rather than dosing it. It’s not a leach field. I don’t think that would be coming from there. MRS. JENKIN-And then the other thing, I would like to hear more about the FAR measurements and the Floor Area Ratio. MR. HOWLAND-All right. Well, I can explain that. This house is exactly the same size as it was prior, took it down, put it back up. We raised the left hand side, we brought that up so that when you, you actually walk up steps from the main level up and you’re basically on the same steps as the garage floor. What you had before was, on the FAR, you did not count the basement. We went through this numerous times about, because you had to count the whole basement, but then you counted living space in the basement, but you didn’t count the mechanical room. So now you’re counting the mechanical room. Now you’re counting, the patio out front was non-permeable soil before. Now it’s considered, since it has a deck up above it, it’s considered a porch, and it has a room. The front entry room, the overhang porch couldn’t have a column, and it couldn’t have anything, it couldn’t have concrete. You could only have pavers in there, but now since it’s more than an 18 inch overhang, it has become Floor Area Ratio. So everything’s exactly the same. It’s not any larger. Actually we took off a 50 square foot porch, but it’s the same thing, it’s just that the calculations are done different. What you had calculated as non-permeable soil because of its location now, it’s considered floor, even though it’s outside. MR. OBORNE-That I would concur with the applicant on this. The Floor Area Ratio was not calculated properly to begin with, neither by the applicant nor by Staff at that time. I’m not stating that applicant’s culpable in any way. It just is not calculated properly, and he is correct. The mechanical room does calculate now. The front porch does calculate now, as does the porch underneath the deck calculates now, but on top of that, there was a three foot overhang to the south. MR. HOWLAND-It’s on the south side in front of, it was always there in the original one, and again, after the first three meetings of this four year previous process, I never came back. There wasn’t any reason for me to be here. 14 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. OBORNE-Right. MR. HOWLAND-But it was submitted with the construction drawings and approved. MR. OBORNE-Right, and typically what we do, as far as calculating overhangs, if it’s 18 inches or greater, it will count toward the FAR. If it’s 18 inches or less it doesn’t count towards the FAR, nor does it count towards side setbacks, front setbacks or any setback, but as soon as it gets to that level, if it’s 19 inches, that whole run, that 19 inches is counted. So it’s a very convoluted history in this at all, and I do just want to state for the record that, I think what the Department of Community Development has a concern with is the fact that there were changes to the plans, without our knowledge. I trust everything that Mr. Howland’s saying, but I can’t verify it. So it’s trust but verified, and I think that’s the position of our Department at this point. MR. UNDERWOOD-All set, Joan? MRS. JENKIN-Yes. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Then I’m going to move on to you, Roy. MR. URRICO-Well, there’s always a troubling factor when it’s after the fact. We try to avoid them obviously. There were some circumstances here, though, that were different than some of the after the fact applications that we’ve gotten before. I think the applicant was trying to solve a problem as he went along. I didn’t hear you explain, though, at any point, why digressed from the original plan and why you weren’t informing the Town about that when it happened. MR. HOWLAND-Again, I added more to the system. MR. URRICO-I understand that, but why didn’t you explain it? MR. HOWLAND-But there’s been nobody to go back to ever in the past. There’s no one that’s ever inspected stormwater. Craig came to me, in August, and said that he sent me a letter, the engineer a letter, and the owner a letter, but no one received it, that his Department was now going to inspect. MR. URRICO-He sent three letters and nobody received the letter? MR. HOWLAND-I didn’t receive it, and the owner didn’t receive it and Tom Center did not receive it, that now they were going to inspect stormwater, but in the past, like in many communities, I think it’s great that you’re inspecting, because. MRS. JENKIN-Never been inspected? MR. HOWLAND-No. I just said, I begged the Park Commission once in the early years, it was their requirement, but they don’t have a staff. They’re supposed to do Hague and Washington County. There’s only one entity that started to inspect a year ago, that was the Town of Bolton. Mitzi, she’s the Assistant Zoning Administrator. She comes out and inspects stormwater. Other than that. MR. CLEMENTS-You did contact the Highway Department, though, it sounds like. MR. HOWLAND-I contacted the Highway Department saying, hey, what’s going on here, we’ve got to do something. So I thought I was dealing with a Highway Department problem. MRS. JENKIN-Isn’t that part of Site Plan Review? MR. OBORNE-Not an inspection of stormwater, no. MR. HOWLAND-It should be. MR. OBORNE-Well, if we had the money for staff, I’d be all for it, but we don’t have the professional staff for that. During Site Plan Review, it is vetted by the engineers. First the applicant comes up with a stormwater plan. Typically it is designed by an engineer, licensed professional, it is forwarded to our Town Engineer, who vets it, signs off on it, and it needs to be installed correctly, and then it is usually, nine times out of ten at least I 15 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) require it for closing out a Site Plan, is that those plans are sealed by the project engineer. So there’s a trail there that you can go back. MR. URRICO-So typically if a problem arises, it wouldn’t be noticed until way after the fact, until the project was done and we had that once in a lifetime storm that creates a problem. So the only thing different about this one is that the project took so long that the problem was discovered before it was completed. MR. OBORNE-Right, and there were some changes that increased a bit of water on site, but nevertheless, following strictly the Code, you know, we should have been informed of any changes, so we could professionally review it. MR. HOWLAND-I just informed the wrong Department. It was a highway problem, that’s who I was dealing with. MR. URRICO-Anyway, here we are, and I guess we have a working system, and even though it wasn’t the one approved at the time, we’re here to approve the new system, and I don’t see any reason not to approve it, because not to approve it would be actually not working to get this problem solved, but I do think some buffers need to be added. I think that’s a small price to pay for the changes, and I think severe buffers, not just low riding hedges or something along those lines. You need some trees there, something along the lines as was explained by Jim earlier. So that would be my position. I would be in favor of it with that condition. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay, and the FAR, you’re fine with that, too. MR. URRICO-I’m okay with that. I think that’s because of the length of the project and we bled over into the new Ordinance. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joyce? MRS. HUNT-Yes. Well, I have no problem with the FAR, but I have some real concerns with what went on here, and I certainly don’t want to see a precedent set here. I mean, if you had come for 97 feet of relief and 95 feet of relief, I know you wouldn’t have gotten it, and I really have some concerns about when you had all of these problems, why you didn’t get a new system designed by a licensed professional before you went ahead. I would not be in favor of it. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I think Roy and I were the only ones probably that date back to when the original approvals came through on this project. we’re the loan remainders of the original crew, but at the same time, you know, all of us have been involved with a whole bunch of projects on Rockhurst and other tightly, you know, over built sites up on the lake there, and I think it’s paramount, you know, I’m going to say I think what you’ve done is okay, all right, and the reason I’m saying that is this, is that because I think that you’ve adequately explained in your narrative. I think the Town Engineer’s reviewed it and also believes that it’s adequate at the same time, too, and I think it’s what we’re looking towards doing to resolve the continuing problem we have on Rockhurst, and with every single re-do that’s going to occur up there in the future. Those of us that were originally involved in the project were aware that the original caveats, when those original cabanas were built up there on the peninsula, many years ago there were caveats that they were never supposed to be anything other than cabanas, and they’ve slowly, over the years, morphed into camps, year round, and now into homes that people can inhabit 24/7, 365 days a year, and the problems that you’ve run into on your site are not anything different than what you would find probably on a lot of other properties once they start to be hacked apart and re-built up there on the peninsula. On the roadside of your house, and this is what I’m going to require for you then. I’ll agree to agree that this is something that we can grant relief for, but what I would like to see is I want two real trees planted between the house and the septic field up there. They can be hardwood trees or they can be softwood trees, but they’ve got to be trees that come off the natural species list that’s on the Town of Queensbury’s plan that we have adopted, the latest Code. MR. OBORNE-I do want to just apprise the Board that you’re granting relief for obviously what the determination was by the Zoning Administrator. I would suggest that you recommend to the Planning Board that these trees get planted there. MR. UNDERWOOD-It’s not going to be a recommendation, because we’re only going to approve this with those trees, okay. That’s the way it is, black and white. 16 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. OBORNE-Well, and that’s fine. I just don’t know how enforceable that it. MR. UNDERWOOD-Well, all I’m saying is this, you know, if you look up the road there, when you’re standing on the road, and you don’t see any trees and you see one right in that picture there, a big tree, that big tree hasn’t had any impact on the people there. No one spends any time on the roadside of that house anyway. MR. OBORNE-You’re preaching to the choir. MR. UNDERWOOD-And I think it’s something that’s long overdue. It probably should happen, as all those septic systems are re-built up there, and the general trend, to me, seems to be to go to aerobic systems because of the leachate being so, you know, innocuous. MR. OBORNE-And, you know, I just want to state that, you know, you’re here for relief that is before that. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. I will grant the relief, and what I would like to see, too, is that on the periphery of the property, that is the property lines along each side of the house, that you’re going to have to get together with your neighbors on either side and think about planting some trees on those property lines. Your side line views certainly aren’t impacted. It will give you more privacy at the same time, and down in front on those catch basins, where, before that water infiltrates into the ground, I want to see vegetation. It can be low growing stuff like Yew or Juniper berry or something like that that’s not going to grow too high, and at least one or two real trees down in front like white pines would be my suggestion, because that’s what belongs up there on the foreshore. MR. HOWLAND-Excuse me, but do you want them before the ponds or on the shoreline of the ponds? MR. UNDERWOOD-I think you can put low grow stuff on the shoreline and you could put pines in before those things closer to the edge of the deck there. It’s not going to shade your, or create that much. If you want to make them hardwood trees, that’s fine, too. You’ve got oak trees. You’ve got hickory trees. Your pick as far as those go. MR. HOWLAND-Okay. I just wanted to know where. MR. UNDERWOOD-But I think that that, that requirement, annual flowers, perennial flowers are not enough because they don’t soak up 365 a days a year, and trees and higher vegetation are the ones that we’re looking towards doing here. So that’s going to be a requirement. MRS. JENKIN-What about, I have a question about all these from the letter. There’s a question about the additional flagstone walkways. Now does that make it impermeable? Because they’re very large rocks. MR. UNDERWOOD-It is considered to be impermeable, the crushed stone underneath, the patio, you know, I mean, those areas are considered to be impermeable. So, in other words, if you guys are going to adopt this and we’re going to give them relief for everything, you’re not making them tear up anything or take out any of those stone things. I think it’s been explained that the lawn’s wet down there after rain events or in wet summers. So it obviously seems like a logical thing to do to me, as opposed to making a mud pit down there. MR. HOWLAND-Let me just turn back around to show you what, we actually took out. MR. UNDERWOOD-You don’t need to do that. MR. HOWLAND-Okay, but we took out much more concrete than. MRS. JENKIN-And then put in the big rocks. MR. HOWLAND-Much more than that. We’re minor compared to what we, what was approved. MRS. JENKIN-No. I’m sure you did. MR. HOWLAND-Yes, what was approved before. We just took it all out. 17 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MRS. JENKIN-My other question. MR. UNDERWOOD-Does somebody want to do this one, or do you want me to do it, Roy? MRS. JENKIN-My other question, just a minute, please. What’s this last one about they’re not supposed to be living in the home? MR. OBORNE-They were given a Temporary CO which has expired. MRS. JENKIN-This doesn’t have anything to do with us? MR. HOWLAND-No, and they wouldn’t give us a new one because he was away, and then he said you’re applying for a variance. We went back and forth with Craig on numerous types of things before, and that didn’t work out. MRS. JENKIN-But they’re obviously living in the home. MR. HOWLAND-Well, they moved in in August and we got a Temporary CO. Correct. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I’m going to cut everybody off, then, and let’s get this done because we’ve got other things to do tonight, too. MRS. JENKIN-Okay. MS. GAGLIARDI-You need to close the public hearing. MR. UNDERWOOD-I’ll close the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 6-2010 STEVE AND DEBBIE SEABOYER, Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joan Jenkin: 83 Rockhurst Road. The applicant is requiring approval for after the fact changes to a previously approved stormwater plan that includes infiltration devices located less than 100 feet from the shoreline of Lake George, as well as Floor Area Ratio relief for the additional expansion. Specifically, they’re seeking 547 square feet of additional Floor Area Ratio relief, and relief for those infiltration devices installed and located within 100 feet of the shoreline of Lake George. We would concur with the Planning Board’s approvals given last evening, and that is the following. We do not consider that an undesirable change has been created in this neighborhood by the granting of this relief for these as it has been requested here. The stormwater prevention that has been built, although it was built too close to the water, we feel with the addition of significant vegetative plantings, and that is trees up on the road side, two large trees to be planted, of native species that are off the list that is on the current adopted Town website, and also that down in front, on the foreshore, that we would like to see some low growing shrubbery planted along the whole seawall there, and that shrubbery should include species like Yew or something low growing that will spread out, and also we would like to see at least two large trees planted down in front over near those catch basins down in front there in the infiltrators, and those would be white pines, and along the property lines on either side where we have water relief problems there, we would like to see some trees planted there, too, and they can be hardwoods or white pines, but that those can be put into a hedgerow or something to try and alleviate some of the stormwater difficulties that have been noted in this process here. As far as whether the benefit can be sought by the applicant in some other way, it doesn’t seem like it. The stormwater systems had to be designed for something much greater than what would have been allowed on a single lot alone by itself, because we’re dealing with problems of water that involves much of the whole point there pouring onto their property. Although the request is substantial because it’s 97% relief for the north infiltration device and 95% relief for the south infiltration device, and those are at 97 and 95 feet of relief, we feel that the vegetation that’s being planted and will be planted will alleviate that problem and moderate it, and whether the proposed variance has an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the district, we feel this will actually be a benefit to the neighborhood and a benefit to the property owner to alleviate the problems that have long been there previous to this construction. It is self-created in a sense because of the re-do of this property, and I think everybody recognizes the overbuilding of the 18 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) peninsula there, but it seems to me to be the best way to do this. On the Floor Area Ratio relief, the total is 547 square feet of relief that we’re adding. th Duly adopted this 17 day of February, 2010, by the following vote: MR. UNDERWOOD-On the Floor Area Ratio relief, the total is 547 square feet of relief that we’re adding. MR. OBORNE-That’s my calculation. MR. UNDERWOOD-And I think everybody recognizes that’s the mechanical room, the patio, the front porch and the roof overhangs, as well as the denoted stepping stones on the lawn. MR. OBORNE-No, that’s not the Floor Area. That’s hard surface. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. MR. OBORNE-That’s a Site Plan issue. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. AYES: Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Clements, Mr. Underwood NOES: Mrs. Hunt ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand MR. HOWLAND-In your letter, will you, I mean, I don’t want to put in a two inch tree if you want a six inch tree. Will you give me size guidelines so we can let them know? MR. UNDERWOOD-I would think, why don’t you use six inch trees so they’re something that’s already well underway in their growing process. MR. HOWLAND-Okay. MR. OBORNE-I just want to, again, state to the Board, that that is the purview of the Planning Board as part of Site Plan Review is approving landscaping. MR. UNDERWOOD-Well, if they want to add anything else to that, they’re welcome to. MR. OBORNE-Yes, well, they’ll certainly get that resolution and they will be apprised of that, and I’m sure they’ll add it to the Site Plan as a requirement. I just want to let you know that. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Thank you. MR. HOWLAND-Okay. Thank you. AREA VARIANCE NO. 7-2010 SEQRA TYPE: UNLISTED BABAJANI & MAMA, INC. AGENT(S): PARAGON CIVIL ENGINEERING, P.C. OWNER(S): BABAJANI & MAMA, LLC ZONING: CI LOCATION: 931 STATE ROUTE 9 APPLICANT PROPOSES TO SUBDIVIDE A 3.48 ACRE PARCEL INTO TWO PARCELS OF 2.35 ACRES AND 1.13 ACRES. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM THE PERCENT PERMEABILITY REQUIREMENT FOR PROPOSED LOT 2. CROSS REF.: SPR 10-2010; SUBDIVISION NO. 3-2010 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: FEBRUARY 10, 2010 LOT SIZE: 3.48 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 296.13-1-17 SECTION: 179-4-030 CLARK WILKINSON, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 7-2010, Babajani & Mama, LLC, Meeting Date: February 17, 2010 “Project Location: 931 State Route 9 Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes to subdivide a 3.48 acre parcel into two parcels of 2.35 acres and 1.13 acres. Relief Required: 19 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) Relief requested from the 30 percent permeability requirement for proposed Lot 2 as per §179-4-030 Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law: In making a determination, the board shall consider: 1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as a result of the granting of this area variance. 2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. The applicant could pursue acquiring land to the west in order to meet the minimum permeability requirements. Further, the applicant could subdivide to include permeable portions of proposed Lot 1; however this may result in unforeseen variances. 3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 4,180 square feet of relief or a site permeability of 21.5% may be considered minor to moderate relative to the ordinance. 4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts on the physical or environmental conditions may be anticipated. 5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self created. Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.): SUB 3-2010 2 lot subdivision Pending S.P. 10-2010 Modification to approved site plan Pending S.P. 61-09 Outback Steakhouse color change Approved 12/17/09 S.P. 4-05 Red Roof Inn / Outback Steakhouse Approved 4/26/05 A.V. 6-05 Parking relief Approved 1/9/05 Staff comments: The parcel in question has a site plan approval for both the Red Roof Inn and Outback Steakhouse. Outback Steakhouse owns the structure but not the parcel that it is located on. The applicant wishes to subdivide the Outback parcel from the larger parcel for the purposes of settling banking issues (see narrative). SEQR Status: Type II – No further review required.” MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. MR. WILKINSON-Good evening. For the record, my name is Clark Wilkinson with Paragon Civil Engineering representing Babajani and Mama, LLC on this variance application in front of you. I think with all the notes and things that are read, most of the highlights are hit. We do propose to subdivide this land into the two parcels, again, as part of a Chapter 11 process with the financial institution. Once the subdivision is completed, if we can complete it, obtain this variance and can complete it, the bank would take possession of the Outback Steakhouse parcel, the smaller of the two parcels, and the remaining parcel will remain in the hands of Babajani and Mama, and they have some agreement to straighten out financial and re-mortgage and get payments and take care of everything they need to take care of, so that both existing businesses will be able to survive and thrive, hopefully, in the future. One of the other things that I did point out to the Planning Board, and I want to make sure this Board understands, is that part of this application of subdivision, we are proposing substantial cross access and parking easements to make sure that everything is taken care of, again, on site, and again, the only other pint is that the, outwardly, no one will see any difference in the site. It’s just 20 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) physically all paper to make sure financial things are taken care of, and there’ll be no real outward difference in appearance on the site. With that in mind, again we’re here tonight seeking the Area Variance, to get the Area Variance for reduction of required pervious area, of the 4100 plus square feet, and at this time I’d turn it over to the Board for questions and comments. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Just to start in with my own comments. Some of us were involved when the original process was proposed and built, and I think it’s pretty apparent to me that all the stormwater structures that have been built on site were designed to handle anything on either, you know, the whole site as a whole or any subdivision thereof. So for anybody to even notice that this is going to happen or be any different, I mean, it does require relief, obviously, because that one is going to be substandard in size for the amount of impermeability that will be on site, but I don’t think anything’s really going to change from, it is what it is, you know, it’s not going to change. Other than ownership. MR. WILKINSON-Correct, and to help in that matter, drawing a line on a piece of paper to create a parcel doesn’t change the way water flows. Water is still flowing to the systems that are designed and will still be taken care of. MR. UNDERWOOD-Right, and as far as I know, everything has worked okay since everything was built. MR. WILKINSON-Yes. MR. OBORNE-And it will be sealed. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. MR. WILKINSON-Yes. MR. OBORNE-That that is, in fact, a fact. MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you guys have any questions? MR. CLEMENTS-You mentioned easements and parking. That means that you’re going to leave everything the way it is so that people can drive through between the two parcels? MR. WILKINSON-Correct. MR. CLEMENTS-So you’re not going to want to have an entrance, for example, to the Red Roof in where you don’t have one now or something like that? MR. WILKINSON-The entrance that exists there at the north end of the site will remain. MR. CLEMENTS-Okay. MR. WILKINSON-And the entrance that exists where most of the traffic comes through the traffic light, which, by the way, was installed by my client, as part of the overall Site Plan, and that’s one of the issues that created part of the cost overruns is that traffic light, but the traffic pattern will, again, remain the same, but you have to have legal easements across the two properties to be able to share parking and share access. MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. MR. OBORNE-And I will just add that the reason it said Site Plan Review is to make sure that, in fact, those easements are, in fact, doable, for lack of a better term, making sure the parking works and that’s really the main reason. MR. URRICO-Are these fairly typical easements that we’ve done, we’ve drawn through for Home Depot and Staples and other? MR. OBORNE-Yes. Certainly there will probably be lease lines involved with this, and like cross boundary easements, maybe not lease lines, but cross boundary easements that will be part of the deeds. MR. WILKINSON-Correct. In part of those easements, I’m sure it’ll describe responsibilities for snow removal and all that stuff, because both the owners of the 21 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) properties need to know what their responsibilities are, and that will transfer with the property, and that’s one of the things that I mentioned to my client when he first came to me and asked me to do this for him is I said that, if it’s done, you have to have a trail so that what you do is traced throughout history. One of the ways to do this is file the easement in the records and become part of this plan and move on. It protects him of the remaining Red Roof Inn and it also protects the bank and whatever owner they’re going to sell the Outback Steakhouse to in the future as well. MR. UNDERWOOD-Any other questions? All right. I’m going to open the public hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter? Any correspondence, Roy? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. URRICO-No correspondence. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. It seems pretty straightforward here. The Planning Board, when they reviewed this, didn’t have any problem. MR. URRICO-Jim, there was one other thing. I didn’t read in the Planning Board motion. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, do you want to do that? MR. URRICO-They reviewed the project last night, and made a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for this Area Variance, and “According to the resolution put forth by Staff, the Planning Board, based on their limited review, has not identified any significant adverse effects that cannot be mitigated with the current project proposal.” And they approved that six to none, with one absent. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Any need to poll you guys on this one? I think everybody pretty much figured out that this is not anything to get bent out of shape on. MRS. JENKIN-There’s really not much to be done here. MR. UNDERWOOD-No. I would just hope that whatever is done as far as the amicability clause of the, you know, the two new owners of the property, Red Roof Inn and Outback, that we don’t get into any Hatfield McCoy issues in the future. We have in other areas of Town, and I’m sure they’re trying to work it out. MR. WILKINSON-Correct. In actuality, Outback does not own anything except the building. They’re leasing the land. Don’t know if their corporate’s going to end up buying this parcel from the bank. Don’t know if the bank has some other investor that wants to buy it right away to get their money out, but again, I think with the easements and stuff that go in, the bank has to approve them, and if the bank approves them, and also I think one of the contingents on the motion last night was that they wanted the Town Attorney or Planning Board attorney to review them as well. MR. OBORNE-And that will be at Site Plan. MR. WILKINSON-Correct. We’ll do that during Site Plan. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Does somebody want to take this one, then? MRS. HUNT-I’ll take it. MR. UNDERWOOD-It’s an Unlisted action, and we’ve got to do SEQRA on it. MR. OBORNE-No, it’s a Type II. That’s a mistake. MR. UNDERWOOD-It is. Okay. MR. WILKINSON-We did the SEQRA last night. MR. OBORNE-Yes, we did SEQRA on the subdivision. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. So, it’s not us. MR. OBORNE-Let’s go ahead and do the Short Form. 22 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. UNDERWOOD-We’ll do it anyway. That way it doesn’t throw a wrench in the works. MR. OBORNE-It’s on the agenda. MS. GAGLIARDI-And you need to close the public hearing. MR. UNDERWOOD-I’ll close the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MOTION THAT BASED UPON THE CRITERIA IN THE SEQRA REVIEW, HAVING LOOKED AT THE SEQRA REVIEW, WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ANY ENVIRONMENTAL OR SUBSTANTIAL PROBLEMS TO BE CREATED BY THE SUBDIVISION OF THIS PROPERTY. SO WE’LL GIVE IT A NEGATIVE DEC ON THAT., Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brian Clements: th Duly adopted this 17 day of February, 2010, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Clements, Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Underwood NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 7-2010 BABAJANI & MAMA, LLC, Introduced by Joyce Hunt who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brian Clements: 931 State Route 9. The applicant proposes to subdivide a 3.48 acre parcel into two parcels, 2.35 acres, and 1.13 acres. The relief required, relief requested from the 30% permeability requirement for proposed Lot Two as per Section 179-4-030. In making a determination we should consider whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood, and there will be minor impacts to the neighborhood. In the sense it’s just a line being drawn on a piece of paper. Whether the benefit could be achieved by other feasible methods to the applicant. I don’t think so. Whether the requested Area Variance is substantial. The request for 4,180 square feet of relief of a site permeability of 21.5 may be considered minor to moderate relative to the Ordinance, and whether the variance will have any adverse effects or impacts on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood. I think there will be minor impacts, and the alleged difficulty may be considered self-created. I move that we approve Area Variance No. 7-2010. th Duly adopted this 17 day of February, 2010, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Clements, Mrs. Jenkin, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Underwood NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re all set. MR. WILKINSON-Thank you very much for your time. AREA VARIANCE NO. 8-2010 SEQRA TYPE: II JAMIE WALTHER AGENT(S): JAMIE WALTHER OWNER(S): TIM & LUCY MORIARTY ZONING: WR, CEA LOCATION: 12 HONEYSUCKLE LANE APPLICANT PROPOSES AN 880 SQUARE FOOT BASEMENT EXPANSION TO INCLUDE A 12 SQ. FT. OUTSIDE ACCESS. APPLICANT REQUESTS RELIEF FROM FLOOR AREA RATIO AND SIDE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. FURTHER, RELIEF SOUGHT FROM THE EXPANSION OF A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE. CROSS REF.: BP 2009-615; SPR 9-2010 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: FEBRUARY 10, 2010 ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY: YES LOT SIZE: 0.13 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 226.19-2-34 SECTION: 179- 4-030 JEFF MEYER & JAMIE WALTHER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT 23 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 8-2010, Jamie Walther, Meeting Date: February 17, 2010 “Project Location: 12 Honeysuckle Lane Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes an 880 sq. ft. basement expansion to with a 12 sq. ft. outside access. Relief Required: Applicant requests relief from Floor Area Ratio and side setback requirements as per §179-4-030. Further, relief requested for the expansion of a nonconforming structure in a CEA as per §179-13-010. Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law: In making a determination, the board shall consider: 1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as a result of the granting of this area variance. 2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. Due to the limitations of the lot, there appears to be limited options by which to avoid an area variance. 3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The request for 892 square feet of expansion for a proposed FAR of 0.39 percent may be considered moderate to severe relative to the ordinance. Further, the request for 8 ft 10 in. or 44% relief and 6 ft. 0 in. or 30% relief from the 20 foot side setback requirement per §179-4-030 may be considered moderate relative to the ordinance. Finally, the request for relief for the expansion of a non-conforming structure per §179-13-010 may be considered moderate relative to the ordinance. 4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts on the physical or environmental conditions of the neighborhood may be anticipated. 5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be considered self created. Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance, etc.): BP 09-615 880 sq. ft. basement expansion Pending Staff comments: The applicant has submitted a building permit for an 880 square foot expansion below grade for the purpose of creating space for utilities and storage. Currently, the house has an area for mechanical equipment located in a crawl space below the dwelling. The existing crawl space will not be enlarged as a part of this project; however, a 90 square foot portion will be backfilled. Floor Area Ratio calculations will need to be updated to reflect a parcel size of 0.14 acres or 6,098 square feet and not 0.12 acres or 5,400 square feet. Side setback calculations will need to be updated to reflect a side setback requirement of 20 feet and not 15 feet as per §179-4-030. SEQR Status: Type II – No further review required.” MR. UNDERWOOD-All right. MR. MEYER-Mr. Chairman, my name is Jeff Meyer. I’m an attorney with Fitzgerald Morris. I’m here with Mr. Moriarty, the landowner, and Jamie Walther, the gentleman 24 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) that will be doing all the work. Just a little bit of background. The house was built in 1952. It’s kind of, the basement is more or less piecemeal. There’s a portion that’s slab on grade. There’s a portion that’s a crawl space of varying heights and depths, and there’s a portion that is essentially, well, it’s a basement, but the new Code, because the ceiling is more than five feet, it’s included in the Floor Area Ratio. As the application indicated, the foundation is faltering. There’s a lot of, you know, you certainly wouldn’t be able to build a similar structure today. What we’re trying to do is shore up the foundation. In order to do that properly, essentially just putting in a basement. The height of the building isn’t going to change. The reason for the 90 foot backfill is to support the portion that is slab on grade. It’s going to remain slab on grade, and we’re doing that just to prevent it. Aside from the threat of the building collapsing, you know, the health safety concerns, presently, you know, the duct work and all the heating and cooling mechanisms are exposed to the sand and everything else that’s under the house. It’s going to circulate the dust through the house. It’s going to contribute to mold and mildew and concerns like that. If you’re looking at the setbacks, the house as it is currently designed is nonconforming. We’re not enlarging the footprint. We’re actually making it a little bit smaller. The addition of the bilco doors will remove a portion of the deck, and actually at the Planning Board meeting last night, Mr. Schonewolf noted that if folks were to ask the fire department, he would encourage you to put bilco doors to provide access for the fire department if there’s ever an issue of fire essentially starting from the furnace or the boiler, it allows them easy access and can potentially save the building. There’s not going to be an undesirable change to the neighborhood. It’s actually going to, it’s not even going to be visible for the neighborhood. It’s strictly below ground, shoring up the foundation. There’s no real other way to achieve any kind of benefit because, you know, it needs that foundation that we’re proposing. If you look at environmental and those types of characteristics, there’s no environmental impact on the neighborhood. The environmental impact is actually a benefit for the applicant. I’m of the opinion that all, any kind of building necessarily means it’s self-created. So I’m not going to say it’s not, but if there was ever a case to make for it not being self-created it’s, you know, the building is kind of collapsing on its own weight and the foundation and time. So we’re attempting to stabilize that. MR. UNDERWOOD-What’s the status of the floor joists now? Are they hurting or are they going to have to be replaced? MR. WALTHER-The floor joists are, they’re in good shape and they’re rough cut, two by tens. MR. UNDERWOOD-Are you going to jack it to dig it out, or are you going to crawl in there and hog it out? MR. WALTHER-Crawl in there and hog it out, you know, once we get past the crawl space depth and we can actually get a mini piece of equipment in there, that’s what we’ll use. MR. UNDERWOOD-Do you guys have any questions? MRS. JENKIN-I have a question about the side setback requirements. Is it because of the new construction or the change that it’s a nonconforming that then that has to be put into the variance? And there’s no measurements or anything, just side setback requirements. So, what are we supposed to be approving? MR. OBORNE-Well, it’s an expansion of a nonconforming structure. As such, the nonconformance is based on the size of the house and based on the setback. So we have to quantify, besides qualify, but we have to quantify all the relief that is required for this project, which would be the two side setbacks and the expansion of a nonconforming structure and the FAR relief that we’re looking at. As far as them quantifying it, it definitely needs to be cleaned up at final, that’s for sure, because Jamie is mistaken that it was 15. It’s actually 20. So, in fact, it’s a little, it’s less relief than what it would have been, percentage wise, if it was the 15. MRS. JENKIN-Do you have the number? MR. OBORNE-They’re in the application. MR. URRICO-It’s on the Staff comments, under Staff comments. MRS. JENKIN-In the Staff comments. 25 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. UNDERWOOD-As far as the FAR goes, I mean, we’ve got to count all that space that we’re going to create underneath now, even though it’s not really, per se, living space, it is space that’s usable. MR. OBORNE-Yes. There’s no access to that space from the inside. They go through a bilco door. I know of very few people that actually go through a bilco door to living space. MRS. JENKIN-I think I’m supposed to say, when I visited the site today, I did talk to Mr. Moriarty, and he did explain, we walked around the house and he explained things. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Anything else you guys want to add at this point? So, are you pouring that or are you blocking it? MR. WALTHER-Poured walls. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. Okay. All right. I think what I’ll do then is open up the public hearing. Anybody from the public wishing to speak on the matter? Do you want to come up, please. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED KATHY BOZONY MS. BOZONY-Kathy Bozony from the office of the Lake George Water Keeper. Just a couple of questions with the application that was submitted. There weren’t any stairs shown from the first floor, and I’m wondering if there will be access from that first floor. In addition to that, the basement that will be 1400 square feet, will it include any additional bedrooms which would have an impact on the septic system. It appears that the newly constructed drywell is proposed less than 10 feet from the absorption field. So I’m not sure if there’s room on the east side of the single family dwelling to put that drywell, and during this construction, I’m not sure what kind of equipment. You had just mentioned that there would be light equipment, but will the on site wastewater treatment system be protected during construction and excavation. It’s recommended possibly, again, depending on the equipment and what kind of individuals and contractors are on site, that maybe snow fencing could be placed around a no touch zone of trees that are existing and/or vegetation, just to delineate, so that people don’t inadvertently kill that vegetation, and any vegetation that’s disturbed during excavation of the basement would be replaced. Thank you. MR. UNDERWOOD-Thank you. Anybody else from the public wishing to speak? Any correspondence? MR. URRICO-I do have correspondence. I also want to add in that the Queensbury Planning Board looked into the matter last night, and they made a motion to recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals for this Area Variance, “According to the resolution prepared by Staff, the Planning Board, based on their limited review, has not identified any significant adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated with the current project proposal.” And that was approved six, zero, with one absent. And there’s one public comment. “This is to advise that we have absolutely no objection to the planned project to enhance the use of their property. We have been fully informed of the project and it should not, in our opinion, have any detrimental effect on the neighborhood. Respectfully yours, James M. Fraser, Jr., 10 Honeysuckle Lane”, next door to the Moriarty property. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Keith, Planning Board, is Building and Codes going to be doing any inspections on this as it is re-done and all? I would think at that time it probably would be appropriate to make sure that, I mean, you guys obviously are going to have to re-hook up your septic and all your pipes to make sure you’ve got the right down grade and everything heading into. MR. WALTHER-Correct. MR. UNDERWOOD-The drywell, is that for roof runoff? MR. WALTHER-What the drywell is intended for is to take any of the groundwater that seeps up in through the basement. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. 26 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. WALTHER-We’re going to have perforated pipe underneath the slab, you know, in crushed stone. We’re going to put that to a sub pump pit in the basement and then pump it out to this well. We’ve already addressed, our concern’s the same as what she has said, is that it is awfully close to what’s potentially leach field, and we haven’t located that precisely yet. The ground’s pretty frozen for poking into the leach field at this point. So we are aware of that and the possibility of having to move it to the other side. MR. UNDERWOOD-Is that laterals on there, or is that just? MR. WALTHER-As far as the homeowner knows, it’s pretty much the original septic system. It could be a steel box, and that’s about it. MR. UNDERWOOD-So, I mean, if it’s something that’s trashed, or something that’s beyond hope. MR. WALTHER-Then we’d have to address it at that point. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes, at that point. Okay. Do you guys have any questions? MRS. JENKIN-What are your plans for getting rid of what you take out during the excavation? MR. WALTHER-We’re going to truck it off site. MRS. JENKIN-So it’s just thrown into a truck. MR. WALTHER-It’ll be hauled off site. It won’t be stored on site. We’ll have a truck right there, as it comes out, it goes away. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I guess I’ll start with you, Joyce. MRS. HUNT-Yes. I have no problems. It seems pretty straightforward, making the basement deeper and more accessible for your utilities. The footprint is about the same. So I would be in favor. MR. UNDERWOOD-Roy? MR. URRICO-Yes. My concerns would have been with the proximity to the leach field, but as long as they’re aware of that are going to address that if that is a concern, that would be my only concern. I’m not concerned about the rest of the project. MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Joan? MRS. JENKIN-I think, if we were to answer the questions that the Water Keeper said, that the six foot two inch ceiling certainly isn’t high enough for any kind of building, and so it definitely would be just storage down there. I agree with that, and you don’t have an interior staircase, correct? It’s just the bilco door to get in to the basement storage area? MR. MORIARTY-No, there’s an interior staircase. It’s been there since the house was built, which is for the existing utilities. MRS. JENKIN-I see. So it goes down there, and you’re not going to move that or change that at all? MR. MORIARTY-No. MRS. JENKIN-Okay. MR. MORIARTY-And the square footage that was mentioned is incorrect. It’s 880 square foot of basement, not 1400. That was erroneous in the denial letter. MR. OBORNE-And I will say, that is the relief that is to be granted, is 892 square foot, which would be 12 square feet for the bilco, on top of the 880, and that’s what you’re granting relief for. MRS. JENKIN-For 892? MR. OBORNE-892, and it’s stated in my notes. 27 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. Brian? MR. CLEMENTS-I think this looks like a good project. I can’t see anything wrong with it. The stairs are in there already. The bilco door is a good idea, as you said, for fire to get in and out. So I’d be in favor of it. MR. UNDERWOOD-Yes. A lot of these older camps are long overdue for the same thing, and we’ve granted relief for quite a few of them in the past, and, you know, any time the homeowner can improve their situation, it’s a logical way to do it, and it’s not going to be any impact on the neighborhood because the house is basically the same size as is existing at the present time. So does somebody want to take this one? MR. CLEMENTS-I will. MR. UNDERWOOD-Sure. I’m going to close the public hearing, too. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 8-2010 JAMIE WALTHER, Introduced by Brian Clements who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joan Jenkin: 12 Honeysuckle Lane. The applicant proposes 880 square foot basement expansion with a 12 sq. ft. outside access. The relief required, the applicant requests relief from Floor Area Ratio and side setback requirements as per Section 179-4-030 of the Zoning Code. Further relief requested for the expansion of a nonconforming structure in a CEA as per 179-13-010. In making the determination, the Board shall consider whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by granting this Area Variance. Minor impacts are anticipated. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other means feasible for the applicant to pursue other than an Area Variance. Due to the limitations, there appear to be limited options. Whether the required Area Variance is substantial. The request for 892 square feet of expansion for a proposed Floor Area Ratio of 0.39% may be considered moderate to severe relative to the Ordinance. Further, the request for 8 ft. 10 in., or 44% relief, and 6 ft. 0 in. or 30% relief from the 20 foot side setback requirements per Section 179-4-030 may be considered moderate relative to the Ordinance. Finally, the request for relief for the expansion of a nonconforming structure as per 179-13-010 may be considered moderate relative to the Ordinance. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts may be anticipated. The difficulty may be considered self-created. I would, therefore, like to make a motion to approve Area Variance No. 8-2010. th Duly adopted this 17 day of February, 2010, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Jenkin, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements, Mr. Underwood NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand MR. UNDERWOOD-You’re all set. All right. We have some minutes to approve. They’re from January 20, 2010. Those present were myself, Roy, Joyce, and Brian. APPROVAL OF MINUTES January 20, 2010 MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING MINUTES OF JANUARY 20, 2010, Introduced by James Underwood who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt: Duly adopted this 17th day of February, 2010, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Clements, Mr. Underwood NOES: NONE ABSTAINED: Mrs. Jenkin 28 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 02/17/2010) ABSENT: Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand MR. UNDERWOOD-Okay. I guess we’re all done for the evening. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, James Underwood, Chairman 29