2010.06.22
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 22, 2010
INDEX
Site Plan No. 31-2010 Karen Hausler 1.
Tax Map No. 227.17-1-59
Subdivision No. 4-2010 Robert Wing 3.
PRELIMINARY STAGE Tax Map No. 279.17-1-60
Site Plan No. 36-2010 Sean & Karen Flanagan 5.
Tax Map No. 226.15-1-7
Site Plan No. 32-2010 Howard Carr, Managing Agent for 8.
Ilene Flaum
Tax Map No. 302.6-1-51
Site Plan No. 33-2010 Parker & Hammond Construction, LLC 12.
Tax Map No. 309.17-1-18.3
Site Plan No. 35-2010 Bob & Dennis Pilarinos 20.
Tax Map No. 302.5-1-97
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND
STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES
(IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 22, 2010
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
CHRIS HUNSINGER, CHAIRMAN
GRETCHEN STEFFAN, SECRETARY
THOMAS FORD
PAUL SCHONEWOLF
DONALD SIPP
STEPHEN TRAVER
DONALD KREBS
LAND USE PLANNER-KEITH OBORNE
STENOGRAPHER-SUE HEMINGWAY
MR. HUNSINGER-I’d like to welcome everyone to the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
meeting. I’ll call the meeting to order, Tuesday, June 22, 2010. Members of the audience, there
are handouts on the back table that have copies of the agenda, and also information on public
hearing. There are several public hearings scheduled this evening for various items. The first
item on the agenda is under Expedited Review.
EXPEDITED REVIEW:
SITE PLAN NO. 31-2010 SEQR TYPE II KAREN HAUSLER AGENT(S) BRENT
WITHERELL OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING WR LOCATION 143 SEELYE
ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO DEMO EXISTING NON-COMPLIANT 464 +/- SQ. FT.
DOCK AND REPLACE IN A COMPLIANT LOCATION A 558 SQ. FT. DOCK AND 312 +/- SQ.
FT. BOATHOUSE WITH SUNDECK. DOCK/BOATHOUSE IN THE WR ZONE REQUIRES
PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE BP 2000-75, BP 94-
019 WARREN CO. PLANNING 6/9/2010 APA, CEA, OTHER L G CEA, APA WETLANDS
LOT SIZE 0.43 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 227.17-1-59 SECTION § 179-5-060
KAREN HAUSLER, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready to summarize Staff Notes.
MR. OBORNE-Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-And if the applicant and/or their agent could come forward to the table.
MR. OBORNE-As mentioned, this is an Expedited Review for Site Plan 31-2010 for Karen
Hausler. This is a dock and a boathouse in the WR zone, and as such requires Planning Board
review and approval. Location is 143 Seelye Road. Existing zoning is Waterfront Residential.
This is a Type II SEQRA. Project Description: Applicant proposes to demolition of existing non-
compliant 464 +/- sq. ft. dock and place in a compliant location a 588 +/- sq. ft. dock and 312 +/-
sq. ft. boathouse with sundeck. This application is eligible for expedited review per the Town of
Queensbury Planning Board Bylaws and Policies & Procedures. Quick review. The boat house
does not exceed the maximum 16 foot height requirement, and as designed, appears to show
no facilities for sleeping, cooking or sanitary facilities. I will say that the shoreline has existing
natural vegetation along it and staff recommends that this existing site condition remain (with the
exception of clearing associated with the new dock) as a condition of approval, and just a quick
opinion, which I know I probably shouldn’t say, but I believe the navigation with adjoining parcels
will be greatly improved by the placement of this dock.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you.
MR. OBORNE-With that, I’d turn it over.
MR. HUNSINGER-Since this is for Expedited Review, I’ll just ask the Board if there’s any
questions or comments.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I have none.
MR. KREBS-I have none.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Any concerns, other than what was mentioned by Staff?
MRS. STEFFAN-No.
MR. TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you have anything else you wanted to add?
MRS. HAUSLER-No, we just would really appreciate having it done. It will definitely help. We
are next door to Castaway Marina, and what we’re planning on doing is moving our dock further
away from theirs, so that it will help them be able to get their boats in and out more easily as
well.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I should have asked if you could identify yourself for the record.
MRS. HAUSLER-I’m sorry. I’m Karen Hausler.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Okay. It’s a Type II SEQRA. Would anyone like to put
forward a resolution?
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 31-2010 KAREN HAUSLER, Introduced by Gretchen
Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
1.
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Project Description: Applicant proposes to demo existing non-compliant 464
+/- sq. ft. dock and replace in a compliant location a 558 sq. ft. dock and 312 +/- sq. ft.
boathouse with sundeck. Dock/Boathouse in the WR zone requires Planning Board
review and approval.
2. A public hearing was advertised and held on 6/22/2010; and
3. This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record;
4. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 31-2010 KAREN HAUSLER, Introduced by
Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
According to the resolution prepared by Staff. Paragraph Four A complies. Paragraph
Four B, this is a Type II action. There are no waivers requested on this application.
a.Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter
179-9-080]], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
b. This is a Type II, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
c. Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with Staff
after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning of any
site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is
dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution; and
d. As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved
plans to be provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy; and
e. If applicable, Item d to be combined with a letter of credit; and
f. If curb cuts are being added or changed a driveway permit is required. A building
permit will not be issued until the approved driveway permit has been provided to the
Planning Office.
g. This is approved with the following condition: That the applicant will maintain the
existing natural vegetation shoreline buffer with permission to clear the area
associated with the new dock construction.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Ford, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Hunsinger
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NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re all set. Good luck.
MRS. HAUSLER-Okay. Wonderful. Thanks very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re welcome.
SUBDIVISION NO. 4-2010 PRELIMINARY STG. & SITE PLAN NO. 41-2010 SEQR TYPE
UNLISTED ROBERT WING AGENT(S) VAN DUSEN & STEVES OWNER(S) SAME
ZONING RR-3A LOCATION 145 & 159 SUNNYSIDE ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES
SUBDIVISION OF A 19.9 +/- ACRE PARCEL INTO THREE LOTS OF 0.66, 1.86 & 17.38 +/-
ACRES. SUBDIVISION OF LAND REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
MODIFICATION TO AN APPROVED SITE PLAN [REDUCTION OF ACREAGE ASSOCIATED
WITH APPROVED NURSERY] ALSO REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND
APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SP 52-03; AV 21-10, SKETCH PLAN 3/23/10 LOT SIZE
19.9 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 279.17-1-60 SECTION CHAPTER A-183, § 179-9-010
MATT STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. OBORNE-Yes. The Planning Board had seen this previously as a recommendation item
last week. The ZBA has issued their approvals for the zoning setbacks and Area Variances this
past Wednesday. Quickly, I’ll read this into the record, that this is Subdivision 4-2010 and
tonight we’re here for Preliminary subdivision only. We’ve already accomplished SEQR review,
okay. The Planning Board will, again, review for Preliminary. Location is 145 and 159
Sunnyside Road. Existing zoning is RR-3A. This is an Unlisted for both subdivision and Site
Plan at this point. SEQR has already been accomplished. Quick description. Applicant
proposes the subdivision of a 19.9 +/- acre parcel into three lots of 0.66, 1.86 & 17.38 acres, and
at this point, I really have nothing else to add.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. STEVES-Good evening. Matt Steves representing Robert Wing. Real brief, we were here
last Tuesday night. We discussed the project in detail so we could go through the SEQRA,
obviously, and Wednesday night we obtained our variances at the Zoning Board, and we’re
back here for the Preliminary approval. I won’t go over it again unless the Board has any
particular questions regarding anything that they had on the plan.
MR. HUNSINGER-Questions, comments from the Board? No?
MRS. STEFFAN-The only question I have is a procedural issue. They asked for, requested
waivers for Sketch, grading and drainage. Since they’re already here, do we have to grant the
waiver for Sketch?
MR. OBORNE-You’ve already granted that waiver, just by issuing the SEQRA determination.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay.
MR. STEVES-We were actually here for Sketch Plan.
MR. OBORNE-I correct that.
MR. HUNSINGER-I was going to say, I thought you were.
MR. STEVES-Yes, that was on another application maybe Staff was confused with. I submitted
a waiver for Sketch on a two lot.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay.
MR. STEVES-But since I went through Sketch, if you want to go ahead and go to Final tonight.
MR. FORD-Thank you for the opportunity.
MR. HUNSINGER-You haven’t submitted Final yet.
MR. STEVES-I believe we did. Didn’t we?
MR. HUNSINGER-Have they? Yes, I didn’t think so.
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rd
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, Sketch Plan was on March 23.
MR. STEVES-That’s correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-So procedurally we would do the subdivision first, and then Site Plan.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, that’s all you’re doing tonight because you can’t approve the Site Plan until
the subdivision is complete. You’ve got to do them in tandem.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS. STEFFAN-So the Site Plan modification will come back on another date?
MR. OBORNE-Correct, and it will be under the auspices of the Final subdivision and Site Plan.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. OBORNE-Just a point of clarification to you, you did the SEQRA on both of those already.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MRS. STEFFAN-Yes, we did that before we initiated the recommendation to the Zoning Board.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, ma’am.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Before we consider any resolution, we do have a public hearing
scheduled. Is there anyone in the audience that wants to address the Board on this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MR. HUNSINGER-We will open the public hearing. Are there any written comments, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-I do not believe so. There are none, no.
MR. HUNSINGER-And this would be just on the subdivision obviously.
MR. OBORNE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Since there are no comments, I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-And will entertain a motion.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 4-2010 ROBERT WING,
Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen Traver:
1
. A subdivision application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Applicant proposes subdivision of a 19.9 +/- acre parcel into three lots of 0.66,
1.86 & 17.38 +/- acres. Subdivision of land requires Planning Board review and approval.
Modification to an approved site plan [reduction of acreage associated with approved
nursery] also requires Planning Board review and approval. Planning Board to conduct
SEQR review and provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
2. A public hearing was scheduled and held on 6/15 & 6/22/2010; and
3. This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record; and
4. MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 4-2010 ROBERT
WING, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen
Traver:
According to the resolution prepared by Staff. Paragraph Four A complies. Paragraph
Four B, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been
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considered, and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration.
Paragraph Four D, waiver requests have been granted regarding drainage and grading.
a.Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter A-183],
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the requirements as
stated in the Zoning Code; and
b.The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and
c.Final approved plans, in compliance with the Subdivision, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with Staff after
approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning of any site work.
Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution; and
d. Waiver requests granted: drainage & grading; and
e.The limits of clearing will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange construction fencing
shall be installed around these areas and field verified by Community Development staff
f.As-built plans to certify that the subdivision is developed according to the approved plans
to be provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy; and
g. If applicable, Item f to be combined with a letter of credit; and
h.This is approved with the following condition: That the applicant will provide a formal
access easement between Tax Map No. 290.05-1-47 and proposed Lot Number One.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
MR. HUNSINGER-So what we’re saying is that that easement would be submitted with Final.
Okay. Any concerns with that from Board members?
MR. FORD-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re all set.
MR. STEVES-All set. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re welcome.
SITE PLAN NO. 36-2010 SEQR TYPE II SEAN & KAREN FLANAGAN AGENT(S)
MELISSA LESCAULT, ESQ. OWNER(S) SAME AS APPLICANT ZONING WR LOCATION
150 LAKE PARKWAY APPLICANT PROPOSES CONVERSION OF DOCK WITH PITCHED
ROOF TO A DOCK WITH A 700 SQ. FT. SUNDECK. DOCK/BOATHOUSE IN THE WR ZONE
REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SP 5-94,
AV 22-10 WARREN CO. PLANNING 6/9/2010 APA, CEA, OTHER L G PARK CEA LOT
SIZE 0.4 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 226.15-1-7 SECTION § 179-5-060
MELISSA LESCAULT, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready to summarize Staff Notes.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan 37-2010, Sean and Karen Flanagan. Requested action is dock and a
boathouse in a WR zone requires Planning Board review and approval. This is at 150 Lake
Parkway. Existing zoning, as mentioned, is Waterfront Residential, again, a SEQRA Type II.
Project Description: Applicant proposes to modify a pre-existing, non-conforming dock with
pitched roof to a pre-existing, non-conforming dock with a 700 sq. ft. sundeck. Staff comments:
This application is not eligible for expedited review per the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
Bylaws and Policies & Procedures due to the non-conforming nature of the project. The
dock/boathouse currently does not meet the 20 foot north side setback requirement and the
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
modification from a pitched roof superstructure to a sundeck will require side setback relief from
the ZBA. Okay. The boat house as proposed is to be 14’-3” above the mean high water mark
and as such does not exceed the maximum 16 foot height requirement. As designed, there’s no
facilities for sleeping, cooking or sanitary facilities, and the Planning Board may wish to direct
the applicant to enhance shoreline planting as per §179-8-040, Landscaping and Buffering
standards. Attached is the ZBA resolution that granted their relief last week, and as such,
they’re here for Site Plan Review, and with that I’d turn it over to the Board.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. LESCAULT-Good evening. Melissa Lescault from McPhillips, Fitzgerald and Cullum. I’m
here on behalf of Sean and Karen Flanagan, as well as Frank DeNardo from Elite Dock. I
apologize that we’re just passing out the landscaping plan, but per the Staff Notes we wanted to
make sure that we did such plan pursuant to your Code. As you can see in the plan, there are
some existing large trees that are already on the property. There’s actually four large maple
trees that are over 18 inches. The other requirement per your Code is that there be a 15 foot
minimum width buffer, shoreline buffer, which we’ve also done per Jim Girard’s designs. We
have approximately 118 feet of shoreline frontage. So aside from the requirement of the two
large trees, which we have four, we also need to have two small trees or shrubs, and we have
proposed to plant two black chokeberry trees, and one additional small tree, which I believe one
of the extra large trees would suffice for that, and the other item that we needed was at least 110
herbaceous plants, and we have 294 herbaceous plants. That’s basically it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else?
MS. LESCAULT-No, not at this moment.
MR. HUNSINGER-Questions, comments from the Board?
MRS. STEFFAN-My only comment, in prepping was tell us about your plans for enhancing the
shoreline plantings, and so I guess that base is covered.
MR. SIPP-The only thing I see is I’d put in a few more shrubs. What you’ve got in there is kind
of low growing. Maybe you need something that has a bigger root system to suck up more
water. I mean, you’ve got some good stuff in there. There’s no doubt about it, but maybe a
couple of more shrubs, like a dogwood or, which is what I would put in.
MS. LESCAULT-Okay.
MR. SIPP-It gives you nice red stems in the middle of the winter, so looking out you’d get a good
view. Outside of that, I think it’s very good.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-That fountain is the one that’s there, right?
MS. LESCAULT-Yes, that’s existing.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Okay. There also happens to be one on the other side of the property, not
that it matters, but it shows the intent of the owner to control stormwater. They’ve done a good
job.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions, comments from the Board? We do have a public
hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wants to address the
Board on this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Any written comments, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-No, sir.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is the Board generally comfortable with the planting schedule?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It looks good.
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MR. HUNSINGER-Just in reference to Mr. Sipp’s comments, regarding a couple of additional
shrubs, do you have any thoughts on that?
MS. LESCAULT-Certainly if that’s something that the Board, as a whole, would request that we
do is to, you know, plant a dogwood of some sort, I certainly don’t feel the applicant would object
to such shrubs.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Would anyone like to propose a location?
MR. KREBS-Well, I was just going to say I think, personally, the job they did was excellent, and I
don’t think it really needs anything more, but that’s a personal opinion, but you all know that I
don’t think we should require this 15 feet at all, but that’s beside the point.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, it is the Code.
MR. KREBS-Yes, it’s in the Code, but the State, the Town, and the County dump water directly
into Lake George with no filtration. Why are we going after individual land owners to be
responsible when the State, the County and the Town refuse to be responsible for the
stormwater coming off their roads?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I agree.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-So there’s three new trees, other than, plus the ones that are on the lot?
MS. LESCAULT-There’s going to be two black chokeberry, and then 110 herbaceous plants.
Now there’s already four large maple. It’s hard for you to see those.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I’m familiar with the lot. So I know that. I wouldn’t want to be the one that
required them to plant trees so it blocks their view of the lake. That isn’t why you buy a house
up there.
MS. LESCAULT-Yes.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anyone else want to comment on the planting schedule?
MRS. STEFFAN-Certainly they have fortified the landscaping and done what we asked them to
do.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Did I close the public hearing?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-Would anyone like to put forward a motion?
MRS. STEFFAN-So they’ve submitted the landscaping plan tonight. Keith, did you get a copy of
this?
MR. OBORNE-I just, I put it in the file.
MR. KREBS-There were extras, too, do you want those, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-I don’t necessarily need them, no. The applicant probably would like them for
final submittal.
MS. LESCAULT-Yes, thank you. Thanks, Keith.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. Then I’ll make a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 36-2010 SEAN & KAREN FLANAGAN, Introduced by
Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Donald Krebs:
1. A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes conversion of dock with pitched roof to a dock with a 700 sq. ft. sundeck.
Dock/Boathouse in the WR zone requires Planning Board review and approval.
2. A public hearing was advertised and held on 6/22/2010; and
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
3. This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record;
4. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 36-2010 SEAN & KAREN FLANAGAN, Introduced
by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Donald Krebs:
According to the resolution prepared by Staff. Paragraph Four A complies. Paragraph Four
B, this is a Type II action. Paragraph E & G do not apply [removed, new Item E added]; and
a. Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter 179-9-
080]], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
b. This is a Type II, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
c. Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with Staff after
approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning of any site work.
Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution; and
d.As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to
be provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy; and
e.The Planning Board approves this application, accepting the revised landscaping plan
that was submitted this evening by Jim Girard Landscape Maintenance Corporation
dated June 21, 2010.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ford, Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re all set. Good luck.
MS. LESCAULT-Thank you very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re welcome.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 32-2010 SEQR TYPE II HOWARD CARR, MANAGING AGENT FOR ILENE
FLAUM AGENT(S) S. BITTER, B P S R OWNER(S) ILENE FLAUM ZONING CI LOCATION
756 GLEN STREET APPLICANT PROPOSES TO LEASE AND RETROFIT 2,800 SQ. FT.
RETAIL SPACE IN THE QUEENSBURY PLAZA FOR A MOE’S SOUTHWESTERN GRILL.
CHANGE OF COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT HAS NOT HAD SITE PLAN REVIEW IN THE
PAST 7 YEARS REQUIRES SITE PLAN REVIEW BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS
REFERENCE SP 35-92; SV 3-03, 81-95, 44-95, 30-94, 16-94, 42-93 WARREN CO.
PLANNING 6/9/2010 LOT SIZE 12.47 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 302.6-1-51 SECTION §
179-9-010
JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready to summarize Staff Notes.
MR. OBORNE-You’ve got it. Site Plan 32-2010 for Howard Carr, Managing Agent for Ilene
Flaum. The requested action is Site Plan Review for a change of commercial use in a
commercial site that has not had Site Plan Review in the last seven years. Location is 756 Glen
Street. Existing zoning is Commercial Intensive. SEQR Status is Type II. The Project
Description: Applicant proposes to lease and retrofit 2,800 +/- sq. ft. of retail space in the
Queensbury Plaza for a Moe’s Southwestern Grill. Staff comments: The proposed location for
the restaurant is in a portion of space associated with the vacant Rex Appliance Center in
Queensbury Plaza. The proposal calls for a 74 seat restaurant with new façade and signage. A
rear access is proposed for deliveries and waste removal. Typically this proposal would require
a building permit only; however, I do want to clarify, per §179-9-020B of the Queensbury Zoning
Code, No permit shall be issued for a change of commercial use in a commercial building on
any lot or tract of land except in compliance with a site plan for such lot or plot duly approved by
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the Town Planning Board within the prior seven years in accordance with the following
procedure. The applicant is seeking waivers for lighting, landscaping, land use district
boundaries, and contours. I did ask Tom to, Tom Hutchins the project engineer, to vet the
stormwater. He has, and has included that in his submittal, in the applicant’s submittal. No real
major issues here. I do maybe want to know where the dumpster is and loading areas. The Fire
Marshall has no issues. I don’t believe the Director of Wastewater has, although there will need
to be some language on the final plans for wastewater, and with that I’d turn it over to the Board.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening, everyone. For the record, Jon Lapper. I’m sure that everybody
knows the history of this Plaza, what this was. I think this was one of my first Site Plans in
Queensbury in around 1989, when there was the old Kentucky Fried Chicken, before the Olive
Garden and Staples and Red Lobster, and along the way a lot of site changes were made, a lot
of positive changes. It was all asphalt, and now when you drive by you see all of the trees. This
is, I mean, it’s so successful in terms of masking the Plaza, but you still can see the buildings. I
mean, just, it’s so much softer than this used to be 20 or so years ago, but part of my theme
tonight, which will end with the Queensbury Diner later on, is re-tenanting existing spaces, and
unfortunately in this retail economy, this center has a bunch of vacant spaces. So they were
very happy to get a strong tenant, Moe’s Southwestern Grill. They didn’t take the entire Rex
space, but they’re taking a lot of it, and that should be good for the Plaza. We’re not proposing
any changes. One of the Staff comments was, do they have any designated easement for
parking, and the answer is no. Just like everybody else, you come and find a place to park. So
that’s not going to interfere with anybody else, and, you know, when you drive by and you see
how crowded Olive Garden and Red Lobster are at various times, but that’s when it’s sort of off
peak for the retailers. So it works pretty well between the restaurant and the retail uses, but with
the landscaping, lighting, stormwater, I mean, everything is really in place, and it’s just a case of,
because we haven’t been here in seven years, it does trigger that new provision to come in
before the Board, but I’m not aware of any issues that require any changes to the Site Plan.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else?
MR. LAPPER-I don’t think so.
MR. HUNSINGER-Questions, comments from members of the Board?
MRS. STEFFAN-I’m assuming, based on the Staff Notes, there won’t be any problems with the
dumpster corral and then identifying loading from behind the building.
MR. LAPPER-Everything, you know the way it works in that section of the Plaza in the back,
there’s no traffic other than loading and trash really, because there’s no parking. So there’s that
whole corridor for using the rear for entrance and taking out the trash. So I don’t see any issues
there. All of the, they’re all, all of the waste receptacles have the screens, you know, the way
they’re supposed to be in Queensbury.
MRS. STEFFAN-Do they share them, or will this one have their own?
MR. LAPPER-They’ll have their own.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay.
MR. OBORNE-If I could get that location on the final map, that would be greatly appreciated.
MR. LAPPER-Sure.
MR. OBORNE-If the Planning Board so.
MR. HUNSINGER-I had a question of Staff, Keith. The letter from Tom Hutchins, was he, did
the Town engage him or did the applicant engage him?
MR. OBORNE-The applicant did. He’s the project engineer.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. OBORNE-He’s the one that brought the application to me.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s what I assumed when I reviewed this, but I got confused from some of
your comments.
9
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. OBORNE-Right, and just in effort to move this forward in one meeting, and to allay any
fears with stormwater on the project, I did request that. They didn’t necessarily have to do it, but
I did request it of them.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-Keith called us and said he’d like to see it, so we engaged Tom Hutchins and
provided that as part of the application.
MR. HUNSINGER-Then the other question I had is the new Code has that clause in there that if
a project hasn’t been reviewed for seven years it has to come back for Site Plan Review. My
question is this, this is a pretty small storefront. If another tenant were to come in and take up a
larger storefront, would they come back to the Planning Board, or by virtue of this Site Plan, are
we then blanketing the entire parcel for the next seven years?
MR. OBORNE-The latter, what you just said.
MR. LAPPER-Well, there’s a qualification, though. If they wanted to change the façade, if they
were doing something, and when we came in with Five Guys, they were changing the door
location. If you modify the building, you’ve got to come in. It’s only if you take it exactly the way
it is, leave everything alone, then that would be an approved Site Plan.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. OBORNE-Thank you, Jon, appreciate that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well said, yes. Okay.
MRS. STEFFAN-But not façade improvements, just structural changes.
MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. SIPP-Is there some place where the size of this wall sign, how big is that wall sign?
MR. LAPPER-It is, should be all specified in here. You have the photo.
MR. SIPP-Yes, I don’t think it’s oversized.
MR. LAPPER-But certainly I’ll stipulate that it’s not, once require a variance.
MR. SIPP-You’re not going to put any further signage on the front?
MR. LAPPER-No, that’s it, just what you see, and I think it is specified here, I just can’t read it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions or comments from the Board? We do have a public
hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wants to address the
Board on this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-I will open the public hearing. Are there any written comments, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-No, sir.
MR. HUNSINGER-And seeing that are no comments, I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-Any issues that the Board has that you want to see as part of the record?
MR. KREBS-No, you answered my only question was about, does this approve everything from
then on.
MR. OBORNE-Yes.
MR. KREBS-Yes, but if they make any changes, then they have to come back.
MR. OBORNE-That requires Site Plan Review, exactly. This will re-set this Plaza for seven
years.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MRS. STEFFAN-Now, I heard, I was doing something else, so I don’t know what, the question
Don asked about the signage. The signage that is being proposed, is there lighting on that
signage?
MR. OBORNE-There is not. That’s not my understanding. I know not as proposed, and it’s less
than 100 square feet.
MRS. STEFFAN-That’s okay. I just want to make sure there’s no neon strips or anything like
that.
MR. OBORNE-Yes. That may be an issue down the road if they want to come in for lighting.
MR. LAPPER-I can’t tell, and I don’t know, but I think that it would probably be internally lit so
you could see Moe’s at night. The letters, I think the letters are lit. I’m trying to think what’s at
Exit 15.
MR. OBORNE-You may want to condition this, just as a recommendation, that it is a compliant.
MR. LAPPER-That’s fine.
MR. OBORNE-In size and lighting.
MR. LAPPER-That’s fine.
MR. OBORNE-To cover yourself.
MRS. STEFFAN-And I did notice one thing, Keith. In your Notes, you know, they’ve asked for
waivers, and on the application for Site Plan Review, they ask for a scale waiver. Is that
appropriate? They ask for a scale waiver, but it’s not in the Notes. So should I grant the scale
waiver?
MR. OBORNE-Yes, if they’re asking for it, absolutely. I didn’t put it in my notes?
MRS. STEFFAN-No. Lighting, landscaping, contours, and land use district boundaries.
MR. OBORNE-If you don’t have any issues, I would grant that also, if they’re asking for it.
MRS. STEFFAN-Right. I understand. Okay.
MR. OBORNE-And I will say I believe the scale that was submitted was one to sixty, and the
requirement is a minimum of one to fifty. This is the scale that was submitted. I don’t know why
he’s asking for a scale, because I have a one to fifty here.
MRS. STEFFAN-Yes, and the application for Site Plan Review, it’s a waiver. The Site Plan shall
be drawn at a scale of forty feet to one inch.
MR. OBORNE-Okay. So they submitted a one to fifty and not a one to forty, then.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. So we’ll grant that waiver. Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 32-2010 HOWARD CARR, MANAGING AGENT FOR
ILENE FLAUM, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Thomas Ford:
1.A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Applicant proposes to lease and retrofit 2,800 sq. ft. retail space in the
Queensbury Plaza for a Moe’s Southwestern Grill. Change of commercial use in a
commercial building that has not had site plan review in the past 7 years requires Site
Plan Review by the Planning Board.
2. A public hearing was advertised and held on 6/22/2010; and
3.This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record;
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
4. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 32-2010 HOWARD CARR, MANAGING
AGENT FOR ILENE FLAUM, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Thomas Ford:
a.Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter 179-
9-080]], the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the
requirements as stated in the Zoning Code; and
b. This is a Type II, and, therefore, no further SEQRA review is necessary; and
c. Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with Staff
after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit and/or the beginning of any
site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is
dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution; and
d. As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved
plans to be provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy; and
f. The Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection; and
g. Waiver requests granted: landscaping, lighting, contours, land use district boundaries
and scale.
h. This is approved with the following conditions:
1. That the Site Plan should be updated at final submittal to indicate existing
conditions and not proposed conditions from 1997 as noted on the sheet heading.
2. The location of dumpster corral to include enclosure details should be noted on
the final plan.
3. Loading areas should be denoted on the final plan.
4. Signage must be Code compliant.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ford, Mrs. Steffan,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. LAPPER-For the record, this was Howard Carr, late arriving, who’s been the manager for
all these changes at the Plaza over all these years.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck. You’re all set.
MR. LAPPER-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 33-2010 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED PARKER & HAMMOND
CONSTRUCTION, LLC AGENT(S) HUTCHINS ENGINEERING OWNER(S) SILVER
SPRINGVILLE LTD PARTNERSHIP ZONING CLI LOCATION SILVER CIRCLE APPLICANT
PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A 8,400 SQ. FT. WAREHOUSE FACILITY WITH A 3,600
SQ. FT. COMMERCIAL OFFICE. NEW COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION IN A CLI ZONE
REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SB 20-99
WARREN CO. PLANNING 6/9/2010 LOT SIZE 2.48 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 309.17-1-18.3
SECTION § 179-9-010
TOM HUTCHINS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan 33-2010, applicant is Parker & Hammond Construction, LLC. It’s a
Site Plan Review for new commercial construction in the Commercial Light Industrial zone.
Silver Circle is the location. Again, it’s CLI. It’s an Unlisted SEQRA. Project Description:
Applicant proposes construction of an 8,400 sq. ft. warehouse facility with an attached 3,600 sq.
ft. commercial office. Further, parking, signage, stormwater and erosion and sedimentation
controls are planned. The parcel proposed for this use is currently a vacant 2.29 acre parcel in
the Silver Circle Industrial Park off of Big Bay Road. The ubiquitous Oakville loamy fine sands
are on the site, as far as the soils go, and just a note, those are general descriptions. What
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
follows is Site Plan Review. I’m going to drop down to what may be a potential issue, and that is
the Warren County Planning Board has recommended a denial without prejudice due to an
interpretation on truck traffic. The Queensbury Planning Board, in order to approve this
application, will need to have a supermajority, which is a four plus one vote, in the affirmative to
override the County Planning Board’s actions. See attached referral form. Fire Marshal
comments and Water Department comments are attached. Water Department might not be
attached. I’m not sure. Just to expand on what the County Planning Board has done, is they did
not interpret the radius turnings for emergency vehicles, and that’s why that is on the plan. They
didn’t give me a call for clarification. They didn’t call the applicant for clarification, and as such,
they thought it was a trucking depot, or something along those lines, and they were concerned
about traffic on Corinth Road. Rightly so, but with that, that is not the case with this, and I’ll let
Tom explain what the nature of the business is, but I just want to make sure that that’s up in front
of the Board, and with that I’d turn it over.
MR. FORD-Thank you, Keith.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Good evening.
MR. HUTCHINS-Good evening, Board. My name is Tom Hutchins. I do business as Hutchins
Engineering, Queensbury. I’m here tonight on behalf of Parker and Hammond Construction
Company, who is a Queensbury business presently located at 715 Upper Glen, which is in the
building behind Dunkin Donuts, and their building looks like that, if that rings a bell. They are
commercial interior contractors, commercial industrial institutional large construction project,
interior contractors. They have upwards of 100 employees right now, and they are looking to re-
locate from Glen Street to an industrial park. The nature of their business there would be three
to four people in this office on a daily basis, and there would be three to six people in the
warehouse area. It’s not like all their employees, they’re a construction company, all their
employees report to the job site. I’ve shown, as Keith indicated, there’s a truck template shown
on there. We always put a truck template on. They anticipate two to four deliveries a week at
this facility. There’s no loading docks here. It’s not a depot. They unload most of their
deliveries by fork truck, which is the reason for the concrete around the building, and as far as
the Warren County, probably part of the reason for that denial is we weren’t represented at the
meeting because I didn’t trigger that it was subject to County review, and I didn’t see the notice,
if I received one. So we weren’t at the meeting where the County reviewed it. So if they had
questions, there was nobody there to answer it, but this is the small industrial use, in an
industrial park, and we believe our design is completely compliant with Town Codes for that
area, and with that, I’d turn it over to the Board for comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Questions, comments from the Board?
MR. FORD-Tom, I have a question on, do you know the size of the vehicles that will be making
deliveries on a regular basis there? Are they 18 wheelers or smaller delivery vehicles?
MR. HUTCHINS-They do get some trailer deliveries, but most of them are in closed truck. Most
of them are box truck, but they do get some deliveries on flatbed, and I expect Kevin Hammond
here tonight that could better answer those questions.
MR. HUNSINGER-So you said that there’s no loading docks?
MR. HUTCHINS-There is not a depressed loading dock. Correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay, because I saw the big drive in doors. I just assumed that, especially
looking at.
MR. HUTCHINS-They’re at grade doors so that they can back a vehicle within the building.
They’re big doors, but they unload by lift truck.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HUTCHINS-That doesn’t, they offload the trailer by lift truck. They don’t drive on the trailer
with a lift truck.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, okay.
MR. TRAVER-What about the Glen Street location? Are they going to continue to occupy that
as well, or?
MR. HUTCHINS-Their business, I don’t know their plans for the building, and I don’t even know
if they are owners of the building or not. The business is going to re-locate to this facility from
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
Glens Falls, and I don’t know their plans for that building, but they’ve outgrown it, is their
problem.
MR. SIPP-What’s the width of the road coming in?
MR. HUTCHINS-Of off Silver Circle? I believe it’s 24 foot.
MR. SIPP-Twenty-four foot.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, it’s a previously approved subdivision. It certainly is up to standards.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes, the fire department didn’t take any issue with it, so there’s no problem
with that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you have any comments on either the Staff Notes or the engineering
comments? I mean, there’s quite a few engineering comments. I don’t think they’re of any great
significance.
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes, I’ll make some comments on them, and this will explain probably a couple
of them. This started out to be a project to be located on Lot Two in Silver Circle, and we did a
bunch of the preliminary soils work on Lot Two of Silver Circle. At a very late point in time, a
decision was made to build upon Lot Three. I didn’t get all of the soils information on Lot Three
before the submission was made, and it was submitted with some soils info from Lot Two. I
have subsequently gathered that data and I’ve discussed it with the Town Engineer, and it’s very
similar, it’s a similar, soils are uniform in that whole area.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s mostly sand, right?
MR. HUTCHINS-It’s sand.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. HUTCHINS-That’s the reason for the lack of test pits. I don’t know, I don’t see any of them
as being significant. Yes, I should specify washed stone. Infiltration trench and eaves trench
require an observation well. I want to look at that requirement. I’ve never used one before, but I
have no problem putting an observation well in. To answer the questions, I have no problem
with any of them.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean, the biggest concern I had was the test pit or perc test to make
sure that the groundwater is not too high.
MR. HUTCHINS-And those tests have subsequently been done. It was a couple of hundred feet
down the road, same elevation. The materials are the same. With regard to the soils, it is an
area that’s a very fast percolating soil, and we’ve amended for the septic system because they
are, it’s under a minute.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HUTCHINS-As far as Staff comments, I don’t believe I have, sign detail, we showed a
freestanding sign. We did not show details of a freestanding sign. They haven’t made a
decision whether they’re going to use this building mounted sign, or whether they’re going to put
a freestanding sign out. We showed a freestanding sign. We don’t have a design for that sign,
but at any rate, it would be compliant.
MR. HUNSINGER-Building colors?
MR. HUTCHINS-Colors are to be, he’s bringing color charts, but it’s a, the metal building is a
beige, tan/beige with a metal roof, and the front office building is an efface, it’s a tan efface with
a brick façade below it, and I believe there’s an elevation in there.
MR. HUNSINGER-There is an elevation, yes.
MR. TRAVER-It’s actually a nice looking building.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. HUTCHINS-It’ll be a nice, I’m sure they’ll do a nice looking job.
14
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. HUNSINGER-And then the only other real comment from Staff was the natural vegetation
comment. It appeared as though there was excessive clearing.
MR. HUTCHINS-I mean, we’ll agree to maintain natural vegetation wherever feasible. There’s a
fair amount of asphalt going into this site, and the building’s, I mean, there’s a fair amount of
coverage by the time we’re done, and we do need to do stormwater. This particular lot lends
itself to sending of stormwater to the rear, and the soils lend themselves to infiltration, but that
takes a fair area to accomplish. We’re okay with maintaining natural vegetation where feasible,
but I think if we take our clearing line on the grading plan, can’t do a whole lot of grading without
removing vegetation, either cut and fill, and I’m not sure how much natural vegetation we could
save, at least up in that area where Keith had indicated, which was around our stormwater
basin. There may be an area to the rear that we can save some. We’re okay agreeing to save it
where we can.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. FORD-I’m sorry if you’ve covered this before, but what are the hours of operation?
MR. HUTCHINS-For the office, 7:30 to 4:30. Most of their people go direct to job sites. This is
basically an area where they store tools, equipment and materials, and run their office operation.
They have a few people that bid jobs and review jobs and that sort of thing.
MR. FORD-So deliveries would occur only during those hours.
MR. HUTCHINS-I believe that to be the case, and I can certainly agree to clarify that, or if we
want to stipulate based upon that, I’d like to say 7:30 to 5:30, or 7:00 to 5:30, if we could do that,
for delivery time. It is an industrial park. There’s not a whole lot of residential occupancy around
there.
MR. OBORNE-If I could comment on the vegetation issue. It’s a consideration. It’s not
something that’s a mandatory, and I’m looking at the plans again, obviously he has a shallow
basin in the rear. Obviously it is quite a bit of storage with it. So you would need that obviously
to grade. It’s going to be lawn in the back. I just want to get that in the front, you know, maybe
for future plans that when you’re doing your E & S and stormwater, the more trees we can save
the better.
MR. HUTCHINS-Absolutely, and that’s fine, but it’s also hard from a design standpoint where
we’ve got a clearing limit to dictate which is the nice trees and which would be the trees that
would be the trees that want to be worth saving, at the design level.
MR. OBORNE-You also come to (lost words) also happens. I mean, I understand that, but we
can mitigate that.
MRS. STEFFAN-I’m just wondering how we put that in a motion so it’s enforceable. I mean, it’s
not, you can’t, it’s too vague.
MR. HUNSINGER-It’s already in the Code anyway. Okay. Anything else from the Board? We
do have a public hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience who wants to
address the Board on this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-I will open the public hearing. Is there any written comments?
MR. OBORNE-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. What’s the will of the Board? Are we ready to move forward on this?
MR. KREBS-Sure.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-I know we haven’t seen the color samples, but what you describe sounds
okay to me. I’m just one person.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. FORD-Agreed.
MR. KREBS-I agree.
MR. HUNSINGER-You know, earth tones. We like the design. Any outstanding concerns? I
mean, you’ll need to satisfy the engineering comments, obviously.
MR. OBORNE-I would say, if I could add to, put something as a condition, that the signage is
Code compliant also, just like the previous one. I’m sure Madame Secretary has that down.
MRS. STEFFAN-Yes, I do. I have four things, to satisfy engineering comments and then obtain
a signoff. Number Two, any building signage must be Code compliant. Number Three, delivery
times to the building, seven a.m. to six p.m. Four, earth tone color scheme is acceptable to the
Board.
MR. KREBS-Read that one on the signage again?
MRS. STEFFAN-Any building signage must be Code compliant.
MR. KREBS-Okay.
MRS. STEFFAN-Should I put signage?
MR. KREBS-Yes, I would say signage, because I was thinking that you might only be looking at
that that was on the building.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-He might have a freestanding signage (lost word) use that.
MR. KREBS-Just signage.
MR. HUTCHINS-I’m sorry, what was the fourth one?
MRS. STEFFAN-Well, just the earth tone color scheme is acceptable to the Board. Because
that was a question that we asked.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. This is an Unlisted action. They submitted a Short Form.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. “Does the action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR Part 617.4?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. TRAVER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“Will the action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted Actions in 6
NYCRR, Part 617.6?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“Could the action result in any adverse effects associated with the following:
C1. Existing air quality, surface or ground water quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic
patterns, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding
problems?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. FORD-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, historic, or other natural or cultural resources; or
community or neighborhood character?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MRS. STEFFAN-“C3. Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or
threatened or endangered species?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“C4. A community’s existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change
in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“C5. Growth, subsequent development or related activities likely to be
induced by the proposed action?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“C6. Long term, short term, cumulative or other effects not identified above?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. TRAVER-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or energy)?”
MR. KREBS-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics that
caused the establishment of a Critical Environmental Area?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-“Is there or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse
environmental impacts?”
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-No.
MRS. STEFFAN-Then I’ll make a motion for a Negative Declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 33-2010, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Donald Krebs:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
PARKER & HAMMOND CONSTRUCTION, LLC, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
17
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern
and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official
Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds
that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant
environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to
execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of, June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mr. Ford, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Krebs,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUTCHINS-If I could add, Kevin Hammond, co-owner. So if you have any specific
questions.
MR. HUNSINGER-Welcome. We were told you brought the color samples. If you could just
maybe hold those up or pass them out.
KEVIN HAMMOND
MR. HAMMOND-Sure. That’s the only one I have right now. That’s our walls, and the roof
would be the (lost words).
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. HAMMOND-On the warehouse building, and then on the main office building we were
going to do three foot high brick, and then an efface with the walls matching the metal building,
and the (lost words) would be the color of the (lost words).
MR. HUNSINGER-Nice. I don’t know if we want to reference the colors, since we have them
now. Is this your only copy?
MR. HAMMOND-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, we’ll give it to Keith.
MR. OBORNE-Please.
MR. HUNSINGER-Anything else from the Board?
MR. FORD-Could we address the lighting, please. I know you’ve got some spec sheets here.
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes. We have shown a lighting plan. There’s one freestanding light near the,
on the east side of the entrance coming off the road, and there is building mounted, the
remainder of it is building mounted lighting. There’s some off the front of the office building, and
there is some off the west side, and the rear of the main building.
MR. FORD-All downcast?
MR. HUTCHINS-It’s all downcast, yes.
MR. FORD-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-One of the questions that came up before you arrived was delivery times
when truck deliveries come to the building.
MR. HAMMOND-We really don’t, I mean, most of our employees are all out in the field, you
know, as on site construction workers. So 90% of our delivers we get through distribution
centers like the drywall center or Camco and the deliver it right to this site, but any of our stuff
18
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
that would come to the shop, we’re open from like, I’m there at seven, but we don’t technically
open until eight o’clock and we’re out at four.
MR. HUNSINGER-So the deliveries come during business hours.
MR. HAMMOND-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. That’s what Mr. Hutchins thought.
MRS. STEFFAN-All right. Then I will make a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 33-2010 PARKER & HAMMOND CONSTRUCTION,
LLC, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen Traver:
1. A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Applicant proposes construction of a 8,400 sq. ft. warehouse facility with a 3,600 sq.
ft. commercial office. New commercial construction in a CLI zone requires Planning Board
review and approval.
2. A public hearing was advertised and held on 6/22/2010; and
3. This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record;
4. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 33-2010 PARKER & HAMMOND
CONSTRUCTION, LLC, Introduced by Gretchen Steffan who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Stephen Traver:
According to the resolution prepared by Staff. Paragraph Four A complies. Paragraph Four B, a
Negative Declaration.
a. Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code [Chapter 179-9-080]],
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal complies with the requirements as stated
in the Zoning Code; and
b. The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered and
the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration; and
c. Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building and
Codes personnel. The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of
Building Permit and/or the beginning of any site work. Subsequent issuance of further permits,
including building permits is dependent on compliance with this and all other conditions of this
resolution; and
d. As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy; and
e. If applicable, Item d to be combined with a letter of credit; and
f. The limits of clearing will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange construction fencing shall be
installed around these areas and field verified by Community Development staff
g. Engineering sign-off required prior to signature of Zoning Administrator.
h. If curb cuts are being added or changed a driveway permit is required. A building permit will
not be issued until the approved driveway permit has been provided to the Planning Office.
i. The applicant must submit a copy of the following to the Town:
1. The project NOI (Notice of Intent) for coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES
General Permit or for coverage under an individual SPDES permit prior to the start of any
site work.
2. The project NOT (Notice of Termination) upon completion of the project; and
j. The applicant must maintain on their project site, for review by staff:
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
1. The approved final that have been stamped by the Town Zoning Administrator. These
plans must include the project SWPPP (Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan) when such
a plan was prepared and approved; and
2. The project NOI and proof of coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES General
Permit, or an individual SPDES permit issued for the project.
k. This is approved with the following conditions:
1.The applicant will satisfy engineering comments and obtain engineering signoff.
2.Any signage must be Code compliant.
3.Delivery times to the building will be between the hours of eight a.m. and five p.m.
4.The earth tone color scheme is acceptable to the Board, specifically the sheet that has
been submitted to Staff of a medium bronze roof and almond wall colors.
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Traver, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-You’re all set. Good luck.
MR. HUTCHINS-Thank you.
MR. HAMMOND-Thank you very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 35-2010 SEQR TYPE PREVIOUS EIS BOB & DENNIS PILARINOS
AGENT(S) JONATHAN LAPPER, B P S R HUTCHINS ENGINEERING OWNER(S)
PYRAMID CO. OF GF ZONING ESC LOCATION 518 AVIATION ROAD APPLICANT
PROPOSES DEMOLITION OF THE 8,800 SQ. FT. FORMER HOWARD JOHNSON’S
RESTAURANT AND CONSTRUCTION OF A 5,400 SQ. FT. DINER WITH ASSOCIATED SITE
WORK. FOOD SERVICE IN THE ESC ZONE REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND
APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE AV 63-08, SP 21-01 WARREN CO. PLANNING 6/9/2010
LOT SIZE 2 +/- ACRES TAX MAP NO. 302.5-1-97 SECTION § 179-9-010
JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Keith, whenever you’re ready to summarize Staff Notes.
MR. OBORNE-Site Plan 35-2010, Bob and Dennis Pilarinos. Requested action is Site Plan
Review for food service in the Enclosed Shopping Center zone. Location is 518 Aviation Road.
Existing zoning is ESC or Enclosed Shopping Center. SEQRA Status is Previous EIS dated
July 2001. Project Description: Applicant proposes demolition of an 8,800 sq. ft. former Howard
Johnson’s restaurant and construction of a 5,400 sq. ft., 210 seat retro diner. The proposal calls
for stormwater and Erosion and Sedimentation controls as well as landscaping, lighting and
associated site work. Staff comments: The parcel for this proposal is currently owned by The
Pyramid Corporation, the owner of Aviation Mall. The 2.06 acre parcel is bordered on the west
by the I-87 northbound exit ramp, to the north by Aviation Road, to the south and east by an
existing out-parcel and is considered one of the four existing northwest outparcels of Aviation
Mall as denoted in the FEIS associated with this project. The location for the proposal is in the
Enclosed Shopping Center zoning district and as such is required to follow the development
standards in Chapter 4 and 7 as per §179-3-040B(1)(c). What follows is Site Plan Review.
Suffice it to say Staff has identified what I consider two main issues, one obviously being traffic,
and the other is compatibility with the surrounding areas. Other issues as far as the internal site,
there’s some lighting issues. You might want to discuss LED lighting, and what the effects of
that is or are, and what we also have is some information from New York State Department of
Transportation. I’m sure we’ll get into that conversation, and the Board has read those notes.
Those were provided to both myself and the applicant’s project engineer and counsel. I did
receive something today at 3:02, exactly, from Kevin Novak, who is the traffic safety and mobility
engineer for Department of Transportation. I hope that you all have read that. What you also
have is a SEQRA letter that you may want to discuss also, and with that, I shall turn it over to the
Board.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-Good evening. For the record, Jon Lapper, Tom Hutchins is the project engineer,
and Tommy Revo is the project architect. Tommy has designed many similar diners over the
last 36 years. So I think that traffic is a lot of what we have to talk about, but perhaps we’ll just
start talking about the simpler site issues, and then get to traffic, if that’s okay with you. The way
we view this, the re-development of this site is important for Queensbury. Getting off at Exit 19
the gateway to Queensbury, and seeing those vacant buildings for all these years has obviously
elicited comments from the public, the politicians, and everyone else, and for all this time,
Pyramid had amssed the property, and it was their goal to do a large retail development and in
the present economy, they’ve elected, instead, to sell this existing separate two acre parcel that
contained the, what, 8800 square foot restaurant. We view this that that restaurant is an existing
facility that could be operated if somebody wanted to do that, and in fact when the Pilarinos
contracted they had the option to do that, but when they went in and looked at it, they realized
that sometimes it’s less efficient and more expensive to renovate than it is to start fresh, and this
allowed us to retain Hutchins Engineering and start fresh on the site, in terms of stormwater,
landscaping, lighting. One of the biggest issues on the Site Plan is just adding the compliant
green space to the front. I mean, most of the time you’d see a diner comes in with all sorts of
parking in front, but when, you know, we sat down with the applicants, looked at the Queensbury
Code and said, here are the options. So rather than try and ask for a variance, I mean, a lot of
decisions were made before we got here to try and simplify this. It’s compliant in the front.
There’s all that green space. There’s, you know, what the applicants consider a pretty
substantial amount of landscaping, and we hope the Board will see this retro period diner as,
you know, something pretty fancy for what it is, stainless steel and glass block. Obviously it’s a
good location for a diner at Exit 19 of the Northway, and because that’s the building right in front,
that taking down that Howard Johnson’s that’s been there vacant for probably six or seven years
since the last tenant left, it’s going to clean up the entrance to the Town. So, with that, let me
hand it over to Tom Hutchins to just walk you through the Site Plan.
TOM HUTCHINS
MR. HUTCHINS-Good evening, Board, Tom Hutchins, Hutchins Engineering. I’ll be relatively
brief, but in general what we’ve done here is we’ve held, the front of the proposed building is just
about at the same location as the front of the existing building. Proposed building is smaller in
footprint than the existing building, and we have taken out the parking that, we’ve reduced the
amount of asphalt between the road and the building substantially by about half. There’s a good
sized green area now. Part of it’s in the right of way, but we’ve essentially doubled the size of
that, and eliminated any of the parking in front. We’ve shown parking to the west and the
primary parking is behind the building. Utilities. The site’s served by public sewer, public water,
natural gas and that’ll remain the case, and that’s relatively straightforward in the design of
those. Stormwater, we have incorporated stormwater treatment controls in accordance with
today’s regulations, and we’ve taken the stormwater, the majority of the stormwater is going
from north to south to an infiltration basin out in the rear that will be essentially out of sight.
There’s a shallow swale in the green area to the front, but that won’t look like a stormwater
control. That’ll look like landscaping. Anything else? We’ve maintained, this is set up, this was
set up by DOT, when they came in and did the bridge project, to be a shared entrance between
these two parcels, the one that the existing restaurant is on and the adjoining parcel, and we’ve
basically set it up to work in that manner as best we can, not knowing what’s going to happen on
the adjoining parcel. The curb cut is there. We’re working with the existing curb cut to the
greatest extent possible, and we are showing three lanes in and out, one in, two out, at that
existing curb cut. There’s plenty of width to enable us to do that. It’s certainly feasible. It’s not,
it’s certainly feasible to left turn out of here. It depends on what time of the day it is. In the
morning during traffic hour, in the evening, it may not be a reasonable movement at that time,
but most times of the day, or other times of the day, I have been watching it, and it’s a
reasonable movement to turn left out of there. There is actually a double left turn lane at this
location that goes to a hatched lane, in the median, there’s a double left turn lane in the median
to turn left into Hess, and there’s a, I’m not sure the name of the street that’s just east of Hess,
but there’s a turn lane to allow that movement, and there’s also a left turn in arrow in that lane,
directing right into this site. It’s difficult to see on the photo, but, other than that, we have shown
a landscaping plan that we felt was a pretty good landscaping plan. We’re certainly able to
discuss it and make modifications. Lighting. Keith had made a comment about the lighting
being intense, and I’m fine with looking at that and trying to back off on that. I will say that the
problem in commercial lighting, with 20 foot high fixtures, is getting uniform distribution without
hot spots because the fixtures are low. You always get, particularly with a downcast fixture, only
20 feet high, you always get a hot spot underneath that fixture, if you’re going to get any
distribute out 30, 40 feet from that. I have no problem trying to go back and look at that and try
to back off that a little bit, and with that I’ll turn it over to the Board.
MR. LAPPER-Since Tom started on the traffic discussion, I want to just follow up some more
details about that. You’ve seen the correspondence from DOT, my letter to DOT, and then
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
Tom’s letter to DOT today and then the DOT response that Keith mentioned just came in at
three o’clock today, and what that’s all about is that after we’d submitted, Keith forwarded to the
DOT regional office a copy of the Master Plan from Pyramid from 2008, and that plan, the last
time we were here talking about the Mall, showed a much more significant retail development on
that site, and in order to facilitate that, it had a connector road between the two parcels. In order
to get a whole bunch of square footage, that would be required, but it’s not feasible for a diner
parcel for this project. I don’t know what ultimately will go on the back of the nine acres where
the Howard Johnson’s motel is. Another hotel is a suitable use, or it could be retail. Certainly
that parcel is connected to the Mall, so depending upon the intensity of what might be proposed
in the future, a connector road may or may not be possible, but it’s not possible now, and it’s
also not necessary now for this diner parcel, and ultimately that’s what DOT came back with was
just that they recognized that this is a separate project and that what they propose is that they
would allow all movements, but that they would like to look at this in two years and have the right
to basically eliminate the left turn out movement if that’s necessary and we think that that’s a
pretty reasonable position for DOT to take, and the applicant can live with that. As Tom had
said, there’s, the left turn in, there’s a place, there’s a cross hatched median. There’s a place to
wait while the traffic coming from the west passes. You can wait and make a left turn like
elsewhere on Aviation and Quaker Road. There’s gaps because of the traffic light. You wait
your turn and make that left in. For a restaurant, just like a retailer, the most important
movements are that cars can come to your site, but at the same time I had a discussion with
Mark Kennedy, who’s the head of the regional office after we got the first letter, and asked him if
he was looking to put in a pork chop and to eliminate the left turns out, and he said, you know,
when you have a five lane road, people are going to do it anyway because it’s so wide you can
just make a “U”, and if you don’t allow the left turns out, where are they going to go, you know,
how’s that going to mess up traffic when they go and try and make a “U” turn somewhere else.
So for that reason, and because of, you know, this is a major traffic generator in terms of that
road, although it is approximately 100 cars peak hour. You’ve seen the letter today where
DOT’s saying that they’ll allow the four movements and they’ll look at it in two years and see if it
has to be changed, but that the applicant has to agree to that, and they will. So what we’re
hoping, after this discussion, is that this Board will see fit to agree that it’s DOT’s road and let
them make that call. I’ll just point out that the road was improved when the bridge came in and
widened any additional lanes and this worked when it was a busy Howard Johnson’s, obviously,
you know, that was a few years ago, but it worked with the full movement, and at that point the
curb cut was much closer to the Northway. What Tom mentioned, DOT did an acquisition.
There used to be two curb cuts on that parcel, one in the center of the parcel. Now the only curb
cut is all the way at the eastern end. So as far as possible from the Northway, and, you know,
as Tom admitted, there are times in the day when, you know, you’re going to wait too long to
make a left turn so people will make a right turn, but that’s how most of the businesses work
there. They’re not restricted. So we’re asking you to, after talking about it, to conclude that
DOT’s proposal gets the project done, and if there’s an issue in two years, DOT will come and
fix it. So that’s where we are on traffic. Tommy’s here to answer any questions about
architecture, and we’re at your mercy.
MR. OBORNE-Can I respond? Is that okay?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, go ahead.
MR. OBORNE-Just some things are inconsistent, and the one being that the Master Plan was
on file with DOT. I didn’t send them the Master Plan. That was from the previous out parcel
build out. He had sent that to me, Jon, and it’s my interpretation that the applicant wants the
unrestricted access. DOT does not want an unrestricted access.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. OBORNE-And if Mark Kennedy’s saying something, I’m hoping that it’s documented that
he’s saying it. I’m not saying that he’s not, trust, but verify, and that’s my only response.
MRS. STEFFAN-I just, I have some serious concerns about traffic, and I would certainly like to
see a traffic study, and the reason for that is that we have a lot going on. We’ve got the
commuter traffic. It is an impossible intersection, any time after four o’clock, and that’s Monday
through Friday, and then you’ve got the weekend situation, and then from May to August we
have the seasonal fluctuations in volume for the tourist season. Then we’ve got festivals and
things like the Balloon Festival which are, you know, you can’t build a road for one event a year,
but that’s an October issue outside of what I would call tourist season, and then you’ve got the
November/December situation at Aviation Mall. It’s the biggest shopping center in the area, and
that particular stretch of road is jammed up. I’m not sure who did the study. I don’t know
whether it was Barton & Loguidice or, there was a study done of that corridor between there and
the Route 9 Aviation intersection. So I know that there’s data to look at.
22
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-Barton & Loguidice, they did a study.
MRS. STEFFAN-Right, and so, you know, some of the data may be able to be, you know,
gleaned and synthesized into this study, but I really need to see, you know, volumes, seasonal
fluctuations because I’m not convinced that a left hand turn out of there, except for on Saturday
morning, is a good idea.
MR. LAPPER-I guess I would just ask that you would consider, let DOT make that call rather
than the Planning Board because it’s a State road.
MR. KREBS-Not only that, there are two adjacent businesses, two gas stations with efficiency
stores, I don’t know what you would call those stores.
MRS. STEFFAN-Convenience stores.
MR. KREBS-Convenience stores, and those people come out of there and go left all the time. I
see it. I’ve stopped, in fact, and bought gas and gone left, coming out. I don’t see accidents
there.
MRS. STEFFAN-I would love to see the traffic data on accidents. I would like to see that.
MR. KREBS-Okay.
MRS. STEFFAN-Because I have seen accidents there, and I’ve also seen, you know, folks
trying to get across, and it’s like they’re running a gauntlet ad there are people, you know,
dodging accidents and it’s chaos, especially during rush hour.
MR. TRAVER-We also just approved a plan to renovate the gas station at the bottom of that
road, and one of the changes that’s being made is no left out, for that reason.
MR. LAPPER-But the difference there is that that’s near that intersection with all those lanes at
Route 9.
MR. TRAVER-Well, if you look at the aerial photograph, you’ll see this is near an intersection
with an increase, a bump out in lanes as well.
MR. LAPPER-The difference here is that everyone’s getting onto and off of the Northway. A lot
of people are turning onto the Northway. It’s just nowhere near as busy as the intersection of
Route 9 and Aviation and Quaker.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. I’d like to discuss further the communication that we received today
between project engineer Hutchins and Mr. Novak. I read this correspondence again, as we
arrived for the meeting this evening, and my interpretation is different than yours, Jon.
MR. LAPPER-I’m sorry to interrupt. The last sentence was what I was referring to. The DOT
would also be willing to consider an unrestricted access, part of the conditions you’ve outlined,
should the Town support this approach, and so that’s referring to Tom’s, the two year, which he
didn’t make up. That came from Kevin.
MR. HUTCHINS-That came from the discussion we had.
MR. LAPPER-Today.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. Well, they, you know, they might be willing to consider something else, but
what we have before us is a letter from them, and a confirmation statement at the beginning of
this communication from today, that they would like to see an overall access plan. They go on
to say, our preference would be for shared access with left turn exiting movements prohibited.
Now, I don’t think that we have, with an absence of updated traffic information, I don’t know that
we necessarily can say that this location cannot accommodate a left exit. I mean, it certainly
seems counterintuitive that it would, again since we’ve looked at other projects on this same
stretch of road, but without updated traffic information, and DOT has made that same comment,
they’re clearly, and I understand you’re pointing out that they would consider something else,
but they’re very clearly, and I think quite strongly indicating, that they do not want a left turn
exiting movement, and I think that we have to give that some great weight. I can certainly
understand the applicant, you know, wanting the option of obviously being able to exit both
ways. I think if we want to pursue that further, and perhaps in any case, we need some updated
traffic information.
23
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-Well, I guess, you know, at some point, it’s only a two acre parcel, and this is not
a lot of square feet for that parcel, but as a traffic generator, you know, it’s a moderate traffic
generator, and I think that the community has an interest in getting that building knocked down
and cleaning up the site, and the applicants have an interest in that. So, whatever you propose
here, I mean, if this deal falls apart because they can’t get their traffic access, you know,
somebody else would come along at some point and it would be similar because, you know, you
have that site. It’s obviously a busy part of Town, that road, part of that is the draw for this
tenant because they want to have the visibility, but I think that, you know, this can’t be tied, at
this point, to an overall access plan because whatever’s happening, the Pilarinos can’t control
what Pyramid is going to do, and there is no plan, because, you know, it’s likely that someone’s
going to buy the piece in the back. So the time for master planning was during a better
economy. Right now whoever buys it’ll, you know, that’ll be a much larger project because of
the acres, and he’ll have to satisfy this Board and DOT.
MR. TRAVER-And I understand that the possibility exists that perhaps within two years the other
parcel will be sold and at that point there will be perhaps a more comprehensive traffic plan, and
I’d like to suggest that another way of looking at this is really the opposite of what your engineer
is suggesting, that we have unlimited access for two years. Why not restrict left turn access for
two years, and then take a look at an overall plan, once the other sites are developed?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Jon, take a step back. Has the property been sold?
MR. LAPPER-There’s a contract. It’s under contract to purchase it.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-But it’s not been sold.
MR. LAPPER-No, because it’s subject to approval.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I thought Pyramid couldn’t sell it until they knocked the?
MR. LAPPER-No. There are two separate parcels. That’s the distinction.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I understand, right.
MR. LAPPER-And it is the applicant here, it is their responsibility, under the contract with
Pyramid, to demolish the building in the front. So Pyramid, so they’re taking that responsibility
from Pyramid by buying re-developing this site. So they’ll take care of the front, and the motel
building, which is on a separate parcel, is the responsibility of Pyramid, and they’ve contracted
with the Town, or they’ve agreed.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Pyramid’s track record is less than stellar, and I know they’ve met with the
Town about this, but I’m not exactly sure where we stand on that, but I don’t even think that they
should be selling that land until the motel is down.
MR. LAPPER-I think you should look at it the opposite, that, having these guys come in with this
brand new building, I mean, they’ll get this thing in the ground. They’d like to be open by the
end of the year. What’s in front is what you see. So that even if the motel is knocked down and
it’s a vacant parcel in the back with grass growing, at least you’ll have a viable landscaped new
diner in front.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-But I don’t think Pyramid should be allowed to sell it until they knock the
motel down. I mean, it’s been there forever. They told us they were going to do it. They didn’t
do it.
MR. LAPPER-Well, you know, if you will, I’ve been involved in all these projects for all these
years, and they certainly spent all this money to get these approvals because they were trying to
do retail projects.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I understand that.
MR. LAPPER-And the last time was 2008, and the economy fell apart and here we are, but the
Pilarinos family has a contract to buy what’s a separate subdivided parcel. If we were in here
asking you for subdivision approval, that would be a different story, perhaps, but this, the
restaurant was always on its own parcel. So I look at it that it’s good that they’re here with a
contract and they’re going to take over the responsibility along the road, and Pyramid has
agreed with the Town that it’ll be down by the end of September in the back, but it’s still a
positive thing for the Town to get this site re-developed.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-So it’ll probably be down before they close on this property?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-I would expect that, depending upon how quick we can get the approval, but that
this thing will close as soon as we have the approvals, and I think I’ve explained, I don’t know if I
did in the cover letter, that this gets built in pieces and assembled here, and Tommy can explain
that.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Right, I understand how it works.
MR. LAPPER-So what is it about a three month construction process?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes, it’s more of an assembly job than a construction.
MR. LAPPER-Yes, but it’s still a lot of equipment. So it’s about three months to get it up and
ready.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I just don’t want to let Pyramid off the hook because they’re not happy with
what they’ve done.
MR. LAPPER-And they have a contract that they’ve delivered to the Town saying that they’ll get
th
it down by October 30.
MR. FORD-So we’re anticipating both construction and destruction simultaneously?
MR. LAPPER-On this site?
MR. FORD-On the large site.
MR. LAPPER-Yes. Pyramid being responsible for the back, and the Pilarinos family being
responsible for the front.
MR. FORD-And that is going to occur during the height of our tourist season. That ought to be a
ball.
MR. LAPPER-Well, I would say that, leaving that there for all these years, that the sooner the
better, you know, to the community to get that down.
MR. FORD-We said that years ago.
MR. LAPPER-Yes, but now the Town has pushed it and Pyramid’s agreed, in writing, to take it
th
down by September 30.
MR. HUNSINGER-So what’s the repercussion to Pyramid if they don’t do it?
MR. LAPPER-The Town’s going to litigate.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-And they’ve made that clear.
MRS. STEFFAN-Right, but it could litigate and it could be a couple of years before it’s gone.
MR. LAPPER-I’ve been assured that it’s going to come down, and part of it is it’s a good time in
the economy to pay for demolition. Everything’s a little bit less expensive.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Why can’t they do it now, then?
MR. LAPPER-They’ve sent out a bid package. They got bids in, and they’re negotiating. So,
that’s my most recent information.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-The other thing on the traffic, you mentioned Howard Johnson’s, yes
Howard Johnson’s was there, but that was like 10 years or more ago. There’s a lot more traffic
at that intersection now with the high school on the other side and the middle school and
everything has expanded. The church is much bigger because the other church has closed, the
parish is bigger. You’ve got a lot more traffic just going up and down.
MR. LAPPER-But that was a two lane bridge at that point, remember.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I understand. I understand.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-The infrastructure has been added to handle the traffic.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-But I think a left turn is suicide.
MR. LAPPER-Well, the applicant is willing, and I understand what Steve said, but they’re willing
to say, to the DOT condition, that DOT will study it and see what happens in two years, and
they’d be willing to give it up. They’d like to get it because they want their restaurant to be
viable, to justify this investment. So they would like to be able to have full movement for two
years and then let the DOT make the call, and it is a State road.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I like my colleague’s idea, we do it the other way around.
MR. LAPPER-I understand.
MR. SIPP-Right across the road you’ve got a Silo restaurant and gift shop, which make left turns
out of there. So we’ve got left turns from the north side and the south side, both crossing in
order to get into the traffic lane.
MR. LAPPER-I go to the Silo all the time. I love the Silo, and the way that works is that at
different times of the day you make a left, it’s no problem. During the peak hour you don’t.
MR. SIPP-What do you do, go across the bridge and turn around?
MR. LAPPER-Well, you know, sometimes I’ve gone through that neighborhood in the back if I
have to. Yes, you could go across the bridge, but that’s, you do what you’ve got to do.
MRS. STEFFAN-But part of the problem with that is that, you know, that’s okay for the locals,
but we have a lot of tourist traffic, and they don’t really know the lay of the land, and they’ll try to
do things that the traffic flow allows them to do, and that’s when they get into trouble.
MR. LAPPER-But to tell the new guy that they can’t have what everybody else has when they’re
making a brand new investment of millions of dollars, I mean, everybody else in that stretch has
full movement, and it works.
MRS. STEFFAN-Well, I don’t know if it works. The history of this site is just very difficult, and
the believability that Pyramid Corp. is going to live up to their commitments, because they
haven’t done it in the past. I mean, past performance is the best indicator of future performance,
and they’ve been disappointing. So now we have this application in front of us, and I think all of
us would like to believe that, you know, everything’s going to be fine, but.
MR. LAPPER-Well, no matter what, you’ve got this family here that will be absolutely
responsible. They’re buying this site for a lot of money, to take down that building, and they
want to get this new building up. So that’s a good thing. That’s going to happen. They’re here
tonight. They’ll put that on the record, but their goal is to do that as soon as possible, and re-
develop the site, and that’s good for all of us.
MR. TRAVER-And hopefully the presence of this new business in the area, combined with the
knock down of the derelict buildings nearby, will cause some further development in this next
door parcel that will cause a re-evaluation of the whole traffic pattern around that area. That’s
why I think that, rather than necessarily worry about an elaborate traffic study at this point, if we
can just keep the left out eliminated for now, and be confident that there’ll be some
development, and perhaps within two years, but certainly as part of a condition that in two years
that that be re-evaluated, and it may very well be that, you know, that can be something that can
be provided for, or it may be that, you know, there’ll be a light or some other control in there that
will manage traffic better, but I think right now, with what we’re looking at, we have to, between
that and the statements that we have from DOT, I don’t see how I can be comfortable with
approving a left out.
MR. KREBS-Yes, but you’re misinterpreting what DOT said. DOT said very specifically that
they would approve the site if Town of Queensbury would be willing to consider the access as
proposed. That’s what DOT says.
MR. TRAVER-And we’re about to find out if the Town of Queensbury would consider that.
MR. KREBS-But it goes on to say that our preference would be for a shared access with left turn
exiting movements prohibited. Well, there is no shared access, and there won’t be any shared
access until one of those pieces of property are sold, and you can go down into Aviation Mall.
So at the existing time, there is no potential for shared access. You couldn’t even do it because
you don’t even own the properties that you’d have to cross.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-But what I didn’t mention, and it’s a small fact, but the, when we were looking at
doing that, the price was $800,000, and because there’s a main Town water line going down
that hill toward Friendly’s, that there’s a huge grade change, and then there’s this big Town
water line that comes from Cole’s Woods, I guess, feeding North Queensbury. That’s why
relocating that line and putting it, that’s why, that’s how we get to that $800,000 price for building
that road, re-locating the water line and dealing with the grade issue. It’s just way beyond this
project. I mean, as a condition, too, and I understand what Steve’s saying, and we’re trying get
this approved, and I understand you’re making the reasonable offer as a way to deal with this, to
get this through. Another thing that we’re, you know, if at some point there was an access road
in the back, of course then they could lose a left turn out because there’d be another place for
people to lose a left turn, but in order to answer Steve’s question, we’d have to ask Dennis
Pilarinos if that’s something that he could live with. He’s here, about the two year period without
the left hand turn, and then evaluate it at that point.
MR. HUNSINGER-What other issues do Board members have, other than traffic?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Is this a 24 hour diner?
MR. LAPPER-What they’ve told me is that it would not be a 24 hour diner.
MR. TRAVER-One other issue that I had, and I’m the first to admit, I am not, I don’t have a lot of
artistic ability, but just looking at the, I think it’s S-9 of the plan that showed the general colors
and the lighting, the façade, if you will, of the front of the restaurant, it strikes me that it’s going to
be rather loud.
MR. LAPPER-Is that this?
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-And what’s not shown there in that rendering is, I think on top of the front
entrance there’s like an orange and red, an additional sign, and certainly I could be wrong about
this, but just looking at the information on the sheet, it seems as though it’s visually going to be a
bit loud. So maybe a visual rendering or something that could aid us in interpreting what this
looks like. I’m also a little bit concerned when I see some of the, and I think this was in Staff
comments as well, about the LED lights. My experience has been is that, not that their intensity,
I know we’ve discussed this with other projects, not that the lumens, if you will, or the amount of
brightness, is essentially different, but the, I think it has to do with the frequency or the spectrum
of the light that’s coming out of the LED is a much more, it has much more visual impact for a
given amount of power, and I understand also that it’s, these are power saving fixtures, which
we also want to utilize, but if you see them in the environment, you see like a red LED as
opposed to, or next to a red incandescent or red fluorescent, the red LED, even at the same
brightness level, it has a much more striking visual impact, and I think for this type of facility, with
the amount of lighting that’s on the front of the building, I think it could end up being, I’m just
concerned that the visual impact of it could be an issue.
TOMMY REVO
MR. REVO-The LED has only got three lines across, what you see up and down, that’s the
lumens. It’s just three lines of LED and it’s on the top going horizontal.
MR. TRAVER-Well, okay, as I say, I’m not sure how other members of the Board feel, but I know
for me, if I had seen like a color rendering of what this would actually look like. I mean not, that
really reflected the whole.
MR. SIPP-Jon, where does this connector road go to?
MR. LAPPER-That’s just a future, I’m sorry, what is that that you’re pointing to?
MR. SIPP-Right here, it says connector road.
MR. LAPPER-That was the old plan. That was to go down to the front of this.
MR. SIPP-It’s not going to be there?
MR. LAPPER-Right, DOT, this was from 2008. That’s not part of this plan. That was the former
plan.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. SIPP-All right.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, that’s what DOT sent back to us, what they had in their file.
MR. SIPP-Jon, where else, you say that they’ve had two sites south of Albany already.
MR. LAPPER-Dennis is here, Hudson and Catskill.
MR. SIPP-All right. What type of road are those restaurants on? Route 9, 9?
MR. LAPPER-Major roads. We can have, Tommy can talk about that, after we get through the
architectural discussion.
MR. FORD-It’s very intense.
MR. LAPPER-It’s just supposed to look like a classic diner, basically.
MR. HUNSINGER-We were just commenting and passing around the color rendering of the
façade, and looking at this Section A-1 detail, I thought that was the vertical, the three vertical
stripes where it shows LED lights, the center one.
MR. REVO-Yes, the center one, the three vertical stripes.
MR. OBORNE-They say red lighted panels.
MR. REVO-Yes, it’s red lighted panels, that’s what they are.
MRS. STEFFAN-I just, I’m very concerned about the design and I understand this is the
gateway to Exit 19, and I understand the whole concept of diners and the history of diners, but I
think everybody on the Planning Board has to understand that this is going to be a stainless
steel building, and they’re proposing to have red LED lights highlighting it. We’ve all talked
about the hideous gas station sign, just one lot away, that’s got the red numbers in the front, and
it’s absolutely hideous and one of the reason why the signage code has been changed, and so,
you know, this is what’s proposed here, so we have to make sure that this is what we want. The
design standards for the Town are looking for something that fits with the region, and I
understand that this is a business that wants to come to Queensbury and wants to do business,
but at the same time, this is a very high profile spot in our Town. It is the gateway, and is this
what we want there? It’s the decision for the Planning Board. That’s our job.
MR. HUNSINGER-Other comments, concerns from the Board?
MRS. STEFFAN-I just, one of the other issues that we have to discuss is the EIS.
MR. REVO-It doesn’t have to be red LED. It could be, the aluminum doesn’t have to be red
either. It could be any color.
MR. LAPPER-Okay. (lost words) it doesn’t have to be red, it can be another color.
MR. REVO-It can be whatever color they want.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, you know, when I looked at this plan, and I opened it up and I saw the
cover sheet and I saw this, what I would consider to be kind of a classic looking diner, I thought,
you know, I mean, this is a nice design, and then my first thought was, but I don’t think it’s going
to fit with all the asphalt that’s in front of that site. So then I flipped the page, and I see that
you’re taking out a lot of the front parking and putting in a lot of green space. I’m like, this is
going to look nice, and then I get to the last sheet, that talks about the color scheme, and, you
know, I didn’t have any way to really judge it, you know, because it was black and white.
MR. LAPPER-Yes, that was my, I didn’t realize.
MR. HUNSINGER-So, you know, I was excited when I saw the design, further excited when I
saw you were taking out a lot of the pavement in the front, you know, and I think it could be a
great project, you know, and I think, you know, the design itself I think you’ve accomplished what
you’re trying to do, which is to make it highly visible. I mean, it is a visible location to begin with,
you know, I mean, it could look really good there. So, you know, following along the comments
that my fellow Planning Board members are expressing their concerns, you know, I think we
need to get a better rendering and get a better handle on the color scheme and the brightness of
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
it and what it’s really going to look like visually, other than just, you know, some black and white
with some red lines drawn on it.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I think as we know, it seems that we’re really at the beginning of this
analysis of this proposal, it, again, gets back to the traffic issue, and I think with the, you know,
really wanting this left out, we basically what we can do is study now and find out if it’s
appropriate, or we can say, well, we won’t do the left out now, but we’ll re-evaluate it in a couple
of years and do the study later, but I think it’s got to be one of the two. I don’t see how we can
just, and again, I’m just speaking for myself, but I don’t see how we can, you know, approve the
left out with the information that we have before us at this point.
MR. FORD-I want to address the color and intensity, because this structure, more than any of
our signage, is going to say welcome to Queensbury, more than any other structure or any other
signage. It’s going to be this very, at this point, very intense aluminum structure. I want to make
sure that we try to visualize that and the impact that that has as a welcome statement to our
Town.
MR. KREBS-Look at what the Town has allowed up until now, Tom. If you get off at Exit 18, you
have the McDonalds on one side. You have a gas station on the other. You go under the thing,
you have.
MR. FORD-Has history not taught us anything?
MR. KREBS-Well, I’m just saying, you’re asking an applicant to do something totally different
than what the Town has allowed consistently, not too long ago, that the gas station at Exit 19
was renovated and put in, and that’s your entrance way.
MR. FORD-I think that’s what planning is all about, improving.
MR. KREBS-I agree with you, but I think there’s got to be some reason in the improvement,
okay, you just can’t say, this particular piece is going to have to live by these rules and
regulations, and everybody that came before didn’t have to live by those rules and regulations.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I think what the Board’s trying to tell you, but they’re doing it so subtle, let
me make it not so subtle. I think, this is a good place for a diner. There’s no doubt about it, but I
think what people have been working for for years up here is, if it’s going to be a diner, and you
probably would say it won’t be a diner when you hear what I’m going to say, they’d rather see an
Adirondack diner than a diner from Cheyenne, Wyoming, and this one looks like it would be at
home out west, and up here everybody likes to, or is trying to improve a lot of our buildings
toward the Adirondack approach. Is it a good place for a diner? It’s an outstanding place, and
will it do well? I’d bet a lot of money on it. I just think, I think the aesthetics of it, I have trouble
with that, and I have trouble with the left turn, but that’s a minor point that I would just try a
couple of years without it.
MR. FORD-That’s a nice interpretation of what I was thinking. I like those words.
MR. TRAVER-Are the other properties of similar design? I think they are, are they not, similar
in structure to what’s being proposed here, in terms of the aluminum and the lighting and so on?
MR. REVO-The diner’s usually stainless steel and aluminum, yes. That’s what they have to be.
MRS. STEFFAN-Right.
MR. TRAVER-Would it be possible to get maybe photographs of what some of those other sites
look like in the daytime and the nighttime.
MR. REVO-You can.
MRS. STEFFAN-All you have to do is jump on the Internet and you can get any picture of a
diner you want, but they’re all stainless steel, that is the nature of, or railroad car.
MR. TRAVER-Although the applicant might object if that’s not what their diner looks like.
MRS. STEFFAN-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-How about the LED lights, have you used the LED lights?
MR. REVO-Well, we’re starting to get involved in them because they’re so energy saving, and
you can’t ruin them. You could smack it against the building, you could drop it, you could step
29
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
on it, you could tie it in a knot, where anything else just breaks, and it gets very low light. That’s
not a lot of light. It’s not like neon.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. REVO-It’s very low. It’s the perfect light. It’s going to put a lot of lighting out of business on
the outside of a building. You’ll see, everything is going to be LED.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, do you have pictures?
MR. REVO-We can, though, we can bring.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-I think that would be helpful, and with the LED’s, you know, maybe, I’m thinking
back on my experiences in viewing the LED lights, and it’s basically been direct lighting, in other
words, you’re looking at the, literally at the light emitting diode yourself. You’re seeing direct
output. Maybe if it was indirect in some way it would soften it a little bit. I mean, I think that we
do.
MR. REVO-I can indirect it.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean, I think that the energy efficient nature of them means that they’re
something that we’re going to be seeing increasingly of in the future, and I think that my sort of
bad memory of LED is of direct and not indirect lighting. So that might make a difference. I
think, again, if we had some visual support for that idea, that it might give a better perspective of
what you’re talking about.
MR. REVO-Well, you could change the color. We don’t have to have red aluminum.
MR. HUNSINGER-We do have a public hearing scheduled.
MR. LAPPER-Before we go to the public hearing, I just want to address Steve’s comment,
because I did talk to the Pilarinos family. They’re goal is to get to an approval and get this under
construction, and for everything that they heard, they would be willing to give up the left out, I
mean, the left in is the more important movement, and if that would make the Planning Board
satisfied, I mean, we’d still take the look at it in two years and see what DOT says, but they
would be willing to give it up, unless DOT said it was okay, you know, rather than get into
months of traffic reports and just delay, they’d like to get this thing done and in the ground. So,
based upon that, that suggestion is acceptable as a condition, and I would hope, of course we’ll
have the public hearing, but if it really comes down to a color issue, that, you know, maybe we
could come back quickly with some choices and let the Board look at that, and you’ve got
photographs of diners that you’ve done. So we could do that relatively quickly, hopefully.
MR. TRAVER-That’s good, and thank you for that discussion, Jon. I would just, the only other
thing I would say, we have to also bear in mind that they’re still calling for a traffic study, but I
think by eliminating the left out, you know, that addresses much of that.
MR. HUTCHINS-Yes, I discussed it with him, and this is our discussion. That his initial request
for a traffic study was based on the fact that the, all the parcels were together under one
ownership, and when we went through, if this one was to be as a separate ownership, he
backed off the requirement, or the request for a traffic study.
MR. LAPPER-And obviously if we agree to eliminate that left out, DOT’s not going to be upset
with that.
MR. HUTCHINS-And we talked at length about the best way to access this parcel, and what we
could do.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. We do have a public hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone
in the audience that wants to address the Board on this project? Okay. We have a few people.
If you could give up the table, please. I would ask that you state your name for the record and
try to limit your comments to three minutes.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
DAN KANE
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. KANE-Hi. My name is Dan Kane. I live at 21 Linden Avenue in Queensbury. I’m going to
go through the letter. I apologize. I put this together after work today, and as I looked at it
there’s some typos and different things, but it’s a letter addressed to Chris. After reviewing the
above mentioned Site Plan Review 35-2010 and taking into consideration having reviewed
hundreds of traffic and planning and zoning site plans as a community planner at the county and
regional levels for over 20 years and as a former member of the Warren County Traffic Safety
Board, I would like to present some concerns with the proposal as it is being presented, and I
know some of these things have already been talked about and they’ve been hashed among the
Board members. The proposal appears to be segmented from an earlier, and I think Mr. Lapper
addressed an FEIS that was done in 2001, if I’m not mistaken.
MR. OBORNE-That is correct.
MR. KANE-Okay. So there is some updating here, submitted by Pyramid to connect this parcel
and others with a master site plan and connect the existing mall parking lot and access road
which would allow ingress and egress at existing traffic signals along Aviation Road. I’m
concerned that this appears to circumvent SEQRA review by selling a portion of the Pyramid
Corporation’s property along Aviation Road. Has the town and town attorney reviewed this
issue? What is the status of SEQRA review at the time on this project as it relates to either the
whole parcel or just this project? Number Two, the proposed project appears according to plans
on file with the Planning Department that I looked at about three weeks ago to have access to
Aviation Road only via an existing access point/curb cut at the westernmost part of the parcel.
This could potentially lead to major conflicts with east and westbound traffic due to high volumes
and speed of through traffic on Aviation Road and Exit 19 bridge and ramps along with
pedestrian and bicycle traffic in that area. A recent Post Star story chronicled some problems
there with Exit 19, and with pedestrians. I know there was a handicap person that specifically
has some problems trying to get across some of those intersections. A casual review of the
drawings appears to show no consideration for any improvements to the existing curb cuts to
address the volume of traffic or the nature of the types of vehicles that may patronize and use
such as proposed, such as buses and large trucks and trailers. The ingress and egress points
don’t appear to be wide enough nor do they look to have the proper geometry to handle wide-
turning vehicles such as the ones mentioned above. Additionally, this parking proposal appears
to have minimal consideration for on-site parking of those type of vehicles. The parcel has not
been used consistently since 1999 and Aviation Road has been redesigned and the I-87 bridge
has been replaced with a much different and greater volume of traffic travelling in front of this
parcel. There’s the discussion of the right turn in and out. If that’s the case, please require that
it meet DOT design standards and it’s an enforceable restriction for left turn and out turn by
whatever applicable codes under New York State DOT and whatever else is required. There’s
no indication of a traffic study being conducted by the applicant. I really kind of take exception to
a statement made that said, well, I’ve stood there and I think you can turn left. Well you have no
clearing distances, if you look at the map, to try to get to the northbound ramp. How are going to
get out of there with a tractor trailer truck if a guy stops for dinner, or anybody else? Comments
about other parcels, those don’t have 110 seats where people are coming and going all the time.
So I think that’s a real concern. The traffic study will allow you take a reasoned look at what’s on
there. I think if you were to allow this applicant, I think the issue about a traffic study is you’re
going to allow project to go forward, then look at a problem that may have been created by this
project and try to go back and rectify it when you’re dealing with a nine plus acre parcel that is
also going to attract commercial activity and then how do you deal with it then? I think that’s a
major concern that I see is you’ve got a cumulative impact there that’s going to have a major
impact on ingress and egress. Comments that I had from the traffic engineer at DOT, this is the
staff, Kevin Novak I think is his name. He said, keep in mind, there is no jurisdiction by DOT
once it goes to individual ownership. Their only jurisdiction is if you keep it in a single owner,
because this parcel does not front where those curb cuts go. So they’re only getting easements
out to that point. So the issue of DOT is not going to object to it is because he said the Town
has to worry about land use issues. We can only deal with right of way issues and what’s going
on out in the road. So please keep that in mind is that when you fragment this project, and all of
a sudden DOT has no jurisdiction there. What are they going to go and ask them for? They’re
not asking for access on their property, the parcel that’s being sold. So when you look at the
cumulative impacts and some of the other issues that, I’m out of time, if you read from the letter,
I think you really need to take a reasonable look at what’s going on on that corridor, and when
you look at what’s going to happen to the rest of that parcel, because to say, to come back in
two years and say, you know, we’re going to change things now puts the new owner at a
disadvantage, too. So they’re dealing with those issues up front. Looking at and taking a
reasonable look under SEQRA and under a traffic study, to say, hey, this is what we’re going to
do for this whole project, this whole parcel, not just this one parcel that’s being taken out, and I
really take exception to a comment that said, well, a master plan’s good in a good economy, but
a master plan is not good in a bad economy? That kind of is a challenge for you as a Planning
Board and people that need to look at what’s going to happen so that you don’t have a problem
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
that’s going to be cumulative there. So, as I said, I appreciate the opportunity. There’s some
summaries that I know my time is up.
MRS. STEFFAN-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Strough?
JOHN STROUGH
MR. STROUGH-John Strough, Queensbury, and I know a lot of people in Town are looking
forward to this diner, and so am I. There’s not too many diners I drive by, you know, you can tell
by appearances, but beyond that, I want to thank the Board for recognizing the fact that this Exit
19 area is the gateway to the Town, so aesthetics and traffic is of the utmost importance. The
burden, in my opinion, shouldn’t be on this particular applicant. The burden should be on the
Pyramid Company that owns the property. I mean, I was here, and even part of the Mega, I was
on the Planning Board. I was sitting where you are when they did the Mega store, and this was
a right in, right out, and they had an access. So anybody in this upper portion would be able to
access the traffic light down below. It all made sense. It was comprehensive. We agreed to it.
Now they came up with a more modest proposal a couple of years ago of having a mix of
restaurants and retail opportunities in this area, and then as well was a lane, independent lane,
right in, right out. Remember that? What’s different? I mean, this is the start of the
development of this area, and that’s good. That’s good. We want to see it develop and we want
to see Pyramid be successful. We like the business in Queensbury, but there’s going to be
others to follow. I think Steve pointed that out that once this comes in, this might be the catalyst
to other things, and that’s good, but we have to look at the picture in the comprehensive total
picture. I mean, yes, sure there are people leaving the Hess station and taking lefts, but we’ve
got to look at the cumulative impact. One, it’s a gas station, and there are gas stations on the
other side. So, you know, there’s a minimizing of conflicts there because people that are
proceeding east have got gas stations, proceeding west have got gas stations. So there’s a little
cross traffic there, or a minimum of cross traffic because of that, and with the sports place, look
at the character of the traffic. It was kind of an even flow, a rather minimum flow, during the day.
Unfortunately for this proposal, and I’m in favor of the restaurant idea, but unfortunately their
a.m. and p.m. bursts will coincide with the traffic at its worst at this very same time as it’s going
to be busy. That’s another reason why we should go back to Pyramid’s plan of having an
access down to the lower part, so that people can use (lost word). It’s not fair for us to plan our
community and people can’t get out of this restaurant and take a turn and head eastward. It’s
not fair to them. They should be able to have an access to a traffic signal and be able to get out.
So, I’m just saying, let’s do our comprehensive planning now, and do it right the first time, and
not later, and thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Good evening.
FRED TROELSTRA
MR. TROELSTRA-Good evening, Fred Troelstra, licensed engineer, Queensbury. I appreciate,
first of all, what the Board has considered here. I think it’s a great job. I also think it’s a great
area and opportunity for a diner. I do feel, a couple of issues that I take issue with, that I think
when the Town commented that they wanted to enhance that corridor, they meant primarily to
remove the old motel. I think the Seven Steers building, as I remember it, Howard Johnson’s
building, that doesn’t affect the Townspeople as much as the old motel. I agree with some of the
comments tonight about something that’s going to be chrome and neon, in essence. Is that
going to be the right look that wants to be achieved here? My comment as well on the traffic,
it’s not so much passenger vehicle. You’re going to get that bus. You’re going to get that
service truck that’s going to try to bang a left out of there. That’s going to happen. I think that
there was no real comments, except for the one previous gentleman, about commercial traffic
through there. There wasn’t any discussion here tonight from the Board on that. So maybe
something for concern there. The retro look, it has been accomplished, correct me if I’m wrong,
I haven’t been in there myself, Johnnie Rockets, there is an example of a building where they
retrofitted a log, I don’t know if you can get it anymore rustic than that building, and made a retro
diner out of it, without the effects of chrome and neon, and, you know, if the Town is having
issues taking down, you know, or changing to chrome and, taking down the Seven Steers
building and putting up a chrome and neon building, I just hope they don’t have any issues with
taking down old barns. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Good evening.
TOM BRUNSWICK
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. BRUNSWICK-Hi. My name is Tom Brunswick. I’m the District Supervisor of the Burger
King down the road, and I think it’s good competition to have a restaurant take over that area.
What I’m looking more at is the traffic pattern, and I agree with the gentleman earlier. I think it’s
Pyramid’s issue to take care of the traffic pattern with possibly an entrance way down to the Mall
area, and then also getting rid of the Howard Johnson’s hotels in the back. One thing that we
discussed a couple of years ago when they were doing the expansion of the upper level and
then the restaurants or whatever they were going to put in, was that, at the Burger King we were
going to be allowed to put a back entrance in to eliminate some of the traffic patterns, and then
basically it was agreed upon, yes, we could do that. We got a lot of, some blueprints and we
agreed to pay for everything. It was going forward. We submitted it to Pyramid, and they denied
it. So I’m just talking the reliability of Pyramid to go through with the demolition of the Howard
Johnson’s and also the other traffic patterns that are on Aviation Road, and that’s all I have to
say, and as far as the restaurant coming in, I think that’s good for competition and I think it’ll do
well there. So, that’s all I have to say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? No other takers? Any written comments, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-Give me a second. I do not believe. No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you.
MR. LAPPER-Can we address those comments?
MR. HUNSINGER-Sure.
MR. LAPPER-First off, the segmentation issue, that does not apply here, because the Pyramid
project was withdrawn, and there’s nothing, there was no plan for developing the back nine
acres. The Pilarinos family are buying an existing two acre site, and there’s just no possibility,
as I’ve mentioned, that this project can justify or requires that connection in the back, and at
some point in the future, Pyramid’s other site will get sold or developed, and at that point, this
Board will look at whether or not it’s appropriate, but in terms of this diner project, we had a
healthy discussion about the traffic, and I think that the condition of giving up the left turn out is a
lot for them to have agreed to, but they are willing to do that to make this Board feel comfortable,
but you’ve got an existing site, all these other sites, all these other businesses at the entrance
to Town. We need to knock down what’s there and start fresh. I think this Board recognizes
that, and there’s certainly the flexibility, in terms of the design and the colors, and, you know, the
applicant’s willing to come back and let the Board pick what the color scheme should be, but
there’s a real public interest in getting this replaced, and we’re asking you to help, to make this
happen, and any reasonable conditions are fine, but we’re asking you to help us get this through
and get these guys in the ground, but it just can’t be an $800,000 connector road for a project
that may never get built and certainly isn’t going to get built now, and that’s just a reality. You
just can’t do that for this diner, and these people can’t do it, and Pyramid’s not going to do it to
sell this parcel either. So, on that issue, which is the matter of they would have to just withdraw
and go away and let the contract fail because they didn’t get approval. That’s not a threat. I
mean, it’s just that that’s just not something that this, it’s just the reality. It’s not something that
this project can justify, but I think that the left turn out was a big concern of the Board, and that’s
a big condition for the applicant, but they will live with that.
MRS. STEFFAN-How long has this lot been for sale?
MR. LAPPER-I only was contacted by Pyramid and then the Pilarinos family about three months
ago. We submitted this in April to get on in May, and the agenda was packed. So we got on in
June. So it was, so they were under contract in March, as far as I know, and it’s ironic because
in the heyday of the economy, there were people looking to do major development and asked
Pyramid if they could buy the whole 11 acre site, and at that point Pyramid had its own plans,
and in this day and age, they were approached by the applicant, and they struck a deal and
signed a contract and here it is.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. So before this it wasn’t marketed as, you know, a separate parcel?
MR. LAPPER-I’m not aware, I mean, it’s always been a separate parcel.
MRS. STEFFAN-The two acres.
MR. LAPPER-The two acre piece, and that gives them the ability to sell it because it’s a
separate parcel, and some of the comments, too, about changes to the curb cut and stuff, what
Tom Hutchins mentioned, when DOT did the bridge, they designed this curb cut. So this was
nothing. We’re not changing it. The curb cut, it’s at the most eastern entrance of this site, which
is farthest from the Northway access on purpose. So DOT did that, acquired the other closer
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curb cut. So this is using what DOT has designed for the road, including that, the median and
everything as it is, and we’re not proposing changing that. We did provide bus parking in the
back. Tom did have templates. He talked to Keith about it, but truck turning movements on the
site, that’s all set. So this’ll work fine for buses and tractor trailers. That’s really the, there’s no
master plan issue here because there’s no plan for the back. Whether it gets sold or developed
in the future, it’s certainly not going to be the Pilarinos family. This is a real farm’s length sale
and an application for this two acres, but it doesn’t mean that whoever comes in, Pyramid or
somebody else won’t be scrutinized for some project at some point in the future, but it’s not
connected.
MR. HUNSINGER-If there’s an anticipation and an expectation that there will be bus traffic to
the site, how would a bus then come out of the site and get back onto the Northway?
MR. LAPPER-A simple answer might be to go through the Mall.
MRS. STEFFAN-They’d have to, yes.
MR. LAPPER-To use the Mall entrance by Friendly’s and use the ring road.
MRS. STEFFAN-I looked at it a couple of ways. It’s the only thing that I could think of that’s
reasonable, and it would have to be in cooperation with Pyramid Corp., making sure that.
MR. LAPPER-Well, that’s open to the public. So anybody can use that.
MR. KREBS-If there were some way for us to get everybody to have no left out and run an
access road behind the two convenience stores, and then down to Aviation Mall, so they could
come out by the light, but, you know, you’d have to get Aviation Mall’s approval first to go over
their land and the other two people that could be a year or so before you get approval.
MRS. STEFFAN-Good luck with that. There’s another procedural question that I have, and it’s
regarding the Environmental Impact Statement that was presented on, for Pyramid Corporation
on this whole thing, you know, how do we deal with that, Keith? I don’t know if you’ve got a
recommendation. I mean, if it was a separate parcel that’s going to be under contract for a
different person, we would do SEQRA, but then what is the status of the Environmental Impact
Statement in the Mall?
MR. OBORNE-That question was posed to counsel, and they have replied in a handout, and
there are a few issues. The main thing is if the Board feels that there is significant adverse
impacts as a result of this project, then a Supplemental EIS should be presented to the Board.
My initial thrust with counsel was, does this need a consistency review with the Town Board?
Which is what we’ve done with other projects, especially with PUD’s that have EIS. They were
the approving Board. In this case for this project, Mike Hill believes and feels strongly that the
Planning Board has to make that decision, that is it consistent with the FEIS of July of 2001 for
the Mall, and that’s the long and the short of it, on the SEIS end of it, the Supplementary EIS.
What is also stated that if the Planning Board finds that there is not likely to result any new or
different significant adverse environmental impacts than those covered in the EIS, it would be
appropriate for the Board to adopt a resolution to that effect, stating that there is not
Supplemental EIS. That is the position of Town Counsel.
MRS. STEFFAN-So in this situation, Pyramid is trying to sell this land to someone else, but
Pyramid would have to amend or provide the Supplemental EIS. It would not be this client.
That’s where I.
MR. OBORNE-I can’t answer that question.
MR. LAPPER-That’s only if this Board felt that there was a significant Environmental Impact
Statement that required a Supplemental EIS. I don’t think that’s the case here. This is a
separate, small project.
MR. OBORNE-And that is the Board’s decision.
MRS. STEFFAN-Traffic is a SEQRA issue, though.
MR. OBORNE-Absolutely. Absolutely.
MR. LAPPER-But I think we’ve addressed that with the left turn.
MR. FORD-It has the potential for having a visual impact, because this structure is going to be
smaller than the current structure that is there.
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MR. LAPPER-It is smaller, yes.
MR. FORD-Therefore there is going to be greater visibility for the existing buildings in the back.
MR. OBORNE-There is an aesthetic portion to SEQRA obviously.
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. LAPPER-But the building in the back will be knocked down.
MR. HUNSINGER-So where are we this evening?
MRS. STEFFAN-Which actually brings me to the landscape issue, because the plan that was
presented wants to utilize the existing greens that are, that border the Northway exit ramp, and
that’s pretty much just scrub brush.
MR. LAPPER-That’s on the Northway property, that’s why. Can you talk about that?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, we haven’t really talked about landscaping.
MR. HUTCHINS-That (lost words) shown along the Northway. In other words, if you were
exiting, if you were getting off Exit 19 going north.
MRS. STEFFAN-Correct, going up the ramp.
MR. HUTCHINS-And we’ve shown it because it’s on the Northway property, and you can’t see
through it. We can’t remove it. I drive it every day, and I look at it, obviously since I’ve been
working on this I’ve been looking at it frequently, and it’s reasonably thick. Anything we put back
there wouldn’t be seen by anyone, and it’s on the Northway property. So there’s nothing we can
do with it. So that’s why we showed that staying there and didn’t (lost word) that part of the
corridor. Once you get in front of that brush, which is, or once you get toward the, about even
with where the building is going to be, that stops distinctly and we have landscaped in front of
that.
MRS. STEFFAN-The other thing I would like to know on that is when you’re coming up the exit
ramp you’ve got that existing brush or scrubby stuff that’s there. We’ve got a lighting plan that’s
a little bit intense and you talked about the spill from those lights and the poles are 20 feet tall,
something like that. What’s happening when you’re coming up the ramp? Is that spilling on to
the entrance in any way? I’m thinking about The Great Escape project. I mean, they were, you
know, that project was dissected. They wanted to make sure, the Planning Board wanted to
make sure the lighting levels were appropriate so that it wasn’t blinding the people on the
Northway. I want the same thing for the folks coming off the exit ramp. I want to make sure that
the perimeter lighting on the parking lots is not spilling onto the Northway and exit.
MR. LAPPER-These are down lights.
MR. HUTCHINS-These are down lights, and actually we have very little spill in that direction,
but, I mean, the problem I’m having with lighting is the intensity directly underneath the fixture.
MRS. STEFFAN-Directly underneath.
MR. HUTCHINS-It’s not spill, but I will, I mean, that’s something we can look at. I’ve already
committed to looking at the lighting, there’s very little spill.
MRS. STEFFAN-It’s just because if you’re at a lower level, and if the parking lot is up here, and
even if the, and they’re on the perimeter, then when you’re coming up the ramp, if that’s hitting
you in the eye, then that’s got a negative impact, and it’s a safety issue.
MR. HUNSINGER-There’s also street lights right there, too.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Which, of course, wouldn’t be shown on your lighting plan.
MR. LAPPER-Right.
MR. HUTCHINS-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. LAPPER-Those gooseneck street lights. The Environmental Impact Statement that was
done in 2001 was for something like a million square feet of new retail space. I mean, that was
for a huge project to do multi-level connection where the hill would be removed and this would
be incorporated into the Mall, and all of that is now withdrawn, I mean, that doesn’t apply to this.
This is, we submitted a new SEQRA for this project because this is really a purchase. This isn’t
Pyramid trying to develop this. It has nothing to do with that project. I can’t tell you what
Pyramid may do in the future with their site. We’ll find out. So I disagree with counsel that this
is part of that, but I certainly can’t see how this could ever require a Supplemental EIS for a 5500
square foot diner replacing an 8800 square foot restaurant, with a lot more landscaping, and
we’re certainly willing to talk about the aesthetic issues that the Board’s interested in, but I would
hope that you would be able to find a way to get this approved so that this site can get cleaned
up.
MR. SIPP-Yes. I think, Jon, our past history with the Mall has not been good. What was
brought up tonight about the connection between them and the Burger King, yes, we’ll do it, and
it never happened.
MR. LAPPER-But they’re not here tonight. I mean, this is not a Pyramid application.
MR. SIPP-Yes, but.
MR. LAPPER-They don’t have to do anything here. It’s the Pilarinos family that’s going to do all
the development.
MR. SIPP-I’m not in the frame of mind of voting for this until Pyramid shows a little responsibility.
MR. LAPPER-But the result of that may be that this project goes away.
MR. SIPP-Well, it may. It may, but I’m not here to vote for them, if they don’t follow through on
their commitments.
MR. LAPPER-I think you’re just mixing up the they, because the applicant here is certainly going
to follow through with their commitment and knock down the building.
MR. SIPP-If they don’t knock down the building, and we pass this, what’s it going to look like on
the back end of this restaurant?
MR. LAPPER-Well, the answer is that they’ve committed in writing to take it down, and the
Town’s going to enforce that. I mean, that’s a Town Board issue, but you shouldn’t be blaming
the applicant here. They’re coming to Town and they’re willing to clean up a problem that we’ve
all had as residents for a long time.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Jon, we do have to give some, you know, you say the EIS isn’t an issue.
We do have to make a decision, because, you know, our counsel says to us, if there’s no new
impacts from the 2001 study that you’re talking about, well, okay, then you don’t need an SEIS,
but we’ve got to make that decision.
MR. LAPPER-That’s fine. I just don’t see how this little project could affect that million square
foot EIS.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well, I understand where you’re coming from, but we’re (lost words), we
have to listen to him, what he says.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, what’s the will of the Board this evening?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-There’s a lot of open issues, unfortunately.
MR. HUNSINGER-There’s a few open issues, yes.
MR. TRAVER-Are we, with regards to SEQRA, is that, do we need to address that tonight?
MR. SCHONEWOLF-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, if we want to move forward on a, you know, approval we would have to
address it tonight. We do need to address it at some point.
MR. TRAVER-I know at some point, but I mean we’re going to be, and we know the applicant’s
going to be coming back with the building design and some more detail. When we see that
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
information would that then be appropriate to look at the aesthetic aspects of it, with regard to
SEQRA?
MR. FORD-As part of the SEQRA. That’s what I had in mind.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well, yes, because that’s what it’s about.
MR. FORD-Because otherwise we won’t know the aesthetic impact until we have it.
MR. TRAVER-Well, that’s why I’m asking, so we don’t necessarily have to move on this issue
tonight, because we’re going to be getting more information from the applicant anyway.
MR. FORD-We’ve got to have more.
MR. TRAVER-Right. Okay.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Because you’ve got get that information before you know whether it has
any impact.
MR. TRAVER-I was hoping you would say that.
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess I’m a little confused, Keith, with the discussion about whether or not
this project is part of the previous Environmental Impact Statement that was conducted. That
was a very different project than what’s being proposed.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, it was, in fact, the EIS from 2001 did not anticipate the outparcels being
developed at that time. What the EIS states is that if you are to develop those northwest
parcels, you have to take consideration into having access to the ring road for traffic safety
purposes, and that’s what it’s held by at this point.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. LAPPER-But that was not a 5500 square foot diner. That was a huge project they were
talking about.
MR. HUNSINGER-Understood, but it’s a different project. That’s why I’m asking for the
clarification. It’s a different project.
MR. OBORNE-And it is one parcel of four, of the northwest parcels.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. OBORNE-So, you know, it’s one portion of it. They were anticipating that those four
parcels, well, I don’t know what they were anticipating. I wasn’t on the Town Board, obviously,
but my understanding is that those four parcels could potentially be developed as one large
development.
MR. LAPPER-And that’s exactly correct.
MR. HUNSINGER-And that’s what was anticipated.
MR. OBORNE-So, but at the same time, it’s not stated as that. It’s still one of the four parcels.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-And just remember that this parcel has an access and it has a building, and it
could be used the way it is if somebody wanted to do that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Part of the reason why I wanted to get clarification, and this is partly in
response to Steve’s question, is one of the recommendations that counsel made is that we
require the applicant to submit a completed Long Form. They submitted a Short Form.
MR. OBORNE-That’s correct.
MR. LAPPER-Because this wouldn’t require a Long Form.
MR. OBORNE-The Planning Board can require a Long Form, but under SEQRA, this would be
an Unlisted.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. HUNSINGER-And certainly if there’s going to be some concern about visual impacts and
some of the other issues that we’ve discussed this evening, a Long Form would be more
appropriate than the Short Form.
MR. HUNSINGER-I cannot disagree with you.
MR. LAPPER-I don’t think that it’s a SEQRA, and I understand that visual is certainly a SEQRA
issue, but I think what you’re really talking about with the visual issue is much simpler of us
coming in with photographs. I mean, the SEQRA form wouldn’t address that, to come in with a
color palate and let the Board choose, if you don’t want red, what you’d like to see, and some
photographs of some other diners, and I guess I just think this is a lot simpler.
MR. TRAVER-I know one of the things that’s, and obviously we just got the information from the
attorney this evening , but, you know, in thinking about it in my own mind and listening to the
applicant tonight normally we think of SEQRA and renewing our examination of the SEQRA
situation in terms of, you know, is this project going to add anything , and I think, you know, what
I keep thinking in my mind is that really what we’re dealing with is that we’re not taking
something away, and that’s the old buildings that now we know that Pyramid has said they have
an agreement with the Town to remove them, but I think even in terms of SEQRA, really in this
case it’s more, not what we’re adding, but what we’re not removing, in terms of moving forward
and, you know, we know that there’s this agreement, but on the other hand, as the applicant has
pointed out, they’re not associated with Pyramid. So it’s just kind of an odd, you know, on the
one hand we’re dependent upon them to carry out that obligation, but on the other hand, we also
have to separate this applicant from Pyramid and yet look at the whole context of this.
MR. OBORNE-If I could offer maybe not necessarily an avenue, but maybe some grist for the
mill, would be how does this project change what the previous FEIS had stated. That’s the
question that the Board has to come up with, is there a change.
MR. KREBS-No because the previous EIS didn’t even cover this property.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, it did. Under the Findings Statement itself it did.
MR. KREBS-It wasn’t defined what they were going to use the property for, right?
MR. TRAVER-But it did include the removal of the old derelict building.
MR. OBORNE-And it did include the word development.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, it didn’t state specifically what would go there, but it was based upon
the maximum build out of that, of the out parcel.
MR. TRAVER-Right, and actually part of, I think, the 2008 plan was a restaurant.
MR. LAPPER-It was, but in conjunction with five, or three big boxes and two smaller boxes.
MR. OBORNE-And the key is access to the ring road. That is the key to the EIS for these
northwest parcels.
MR. LAPPER-I can’t say this any clearer. There can’t be access to the ring road for a 5500
square foot diner. So if the Board, if that’s what you want, then we’ll just withdraw the
application and there’s no project. I mean, that just is not possible.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. We heard that.
MR. OBORNE-But to go on, I think that there are avenues that could mitigate some of the traffic
issues. I think you have to think out of the box on this one a little bit, move that access down a
little bit farther to the east, if you’re going to do that. I’m not a proponent of that, but again,
you’re not asking for my opinion, and at this point we’re looking at the EIS as our guiding mantra
for lack of a better term.
MR. KREBS-You were saying move the access farther east?
MR. OBORNE-Well, I mean, if you’re going to approve this with a left turn or approve it with a no
left turn, that access needs to be kicked down to the east.
MR. KREBS-I didn’t think there was any more property from looking at this.
MR. LAPPER-There’s not.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. OBORNE-There’s not, so you get an easement.
MR. LAPPER-No, you can’t because it would conflict wit the gas station. It can’t be close to the
gas station. That’s not the answer. If that was the answer, DOT would have asked for it.
MR. OBORNE-Well, I’m offering a potential discussion.
MR. TRAVER-And that’s your feeling, even with a no left exit?
MR. OBORNE-No. If you’re going to make a left, you have to kick it down, but that’s obviously a
moot point because they’re offering a right only.
MR. FORD-Well, left is off the table now.
MR. TRAVER-At least for two years.
MR. HUNSINGER-How do members feel about a left in? We haven’t talked about that
specifically.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, that’s a good point. Boy, and that.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-There is a left turning lane there.
MR. HUNSINGER-There is. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn’t concerns about that,
you know, before we got off the traffic issue.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, well, I mean, I think it’s a concern, but first of all I don’t see how we could
control it anyway.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-So, I mean, if it becomes an issue.
MR. HUNSINGER-And the road design doesn’t accommodate a left turn.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, if anything, it adds to the idea of not having left out, because then if you’ve
got somebody trying to turn in left and somebody trying to turn out left at the same time, now
youv’e got a real mess on your hands.
MR. KREBS-Actually one car shields the other that way.
MR. HUNSINGER-If I could just go back to the Short vs. Long Form issue. Part of where my
thinking was coming from is, you know, there has been a lot of discussion about traffic. There’s
been a lot of discussion about visual impacts. If there is an item that the Board feels there may
be a large or significant adverse impact, then that triggers a full EAF. So, part of my thinking
was, if we’re likely going to end up there anyway, it might be worth your while to just submit it.
MR. LAPPER-And I guess I think it’s really architectural that you’re talking about, not visual
impact. You’re not talking about the size and the shape of the building. You’re talking about the
skin, you’re talking about architectural issues. So I’m not sure that that’s really the same thing
as a SEQRA visual impact. I think you’re just talking about design.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good point.
MR. LAPPER-You’re not saying move the building to the back of the site or something like that.
MR. FORD-Well, the total project really is the visual impact, and I know there’s the promise of
the destruction of the old buildings, but what happens on this site will directly impact the visual
impact of those other buildings.
MR. LAPPER-And I would ask you to treat that separately, only because it’s not this applicant’s
responsibility to take it down.
MR. FORD-No, but it’s our responsibility to determine the visual impact.
MR. LAPPER-By the time this building is built, which will hopefully be by the end of the year, the
buildings in the back have been committed to be taken down, and the Town Board has said
they’re going to make sure that that happens. Pyramid said they’ll take it down. So I’m just,
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
you know, I understand your concern. I mean, we all drive by it every day. No one likes the way
it looks, but these guys are going to take down the building in the front, and the Town will take
care of the back.
MR. FORD-Driving by it is one thing. Driving back there is something entirely different.
MR. LAPPER-They’ve assured the Town that they’re taking care of it, and I know that they’ve
done the asbestos report. They’ve sent out bid packages. They’ve gotten bids. They’re
working on it. All that is just beyond what these guys can be responsible for, but they want to
work with you to get the front site looking good.
MR. TRAVER-With the architectural elements again, and I know this is a, as I understand what
I’ve learned this is a, basically a prefabricated sort of building?
MR. LAPPER-It’s designed by an architect, and it gets built off site and brought in in pieces.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. LAPPER-You won’t be able to tell the difference. This isn’t like the Prospect Diner, a really
simple, small. I mean, this is a significant building that’s just going to come in in pieces, and
then it gets fixtured.
MR. TRAVER-How committed in those design elements are they, if you know, to the stainless,
you know, versus something more similar to a surrounding?
MR. LAPPER-Well, I think that’s, in terms of the diner, that that’s really significant, that they
want this to be a deco, you know, it’s glass box and stainless, that that’s really important, but all
the trim elements, the colors are stuff that are on the table for this Board to help them decide.
MR. FORD-So there would be no consideration to something that, for lack of a better term, that
would be more of an Adirondack style diner?
MR. LAPPER-Dennis, correct me if I’m wrong, you’re not interested in?
MR. FORD-Well, the owners should really be, not the architect, should be answering the
question.
MR. LAPPER-Dennis, you want this to be a stainless steel diner?
DENNIS PILARINOS
MR. PILARINOS-Yes.
MR. LAPPER-To look like a classic diner.
MR. PILARINOS-Yes, like a diner, like all over New York State, New York State, Connecticut,
Long Island, Maryland. You guys don’t see the diners all over?
MR. HUNSINGER-If we could get your name for the record, sir?
MR. PILARINOS-The diners, like all over.
MR. LAPPER-Give them your name for the record.
MR. PILARINOS-My name is Dennis Pilarinos.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. PILARINOS-I’d like to put a business around here. I’d like to put a diner like the diners all
over New York State, you know, Connecticut, New Jersey, Maryland, like steel, you know. I
don’t want to put a big building. I like stainless steel, a regular diner, like old fashion diners.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you very much.
MR. KREBS-It’s an attraction. I mean, when you drive by a diner, why you go to that diner is
because it looks like this, okay, and, you know, would you go to a McDonalds that looked like an
alpine home? Probably not. Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. TRAVER-Well, as a matter of fact, McDonalds, they’ve been remarkably flexible in their
restaurants around the world in terms of adopting to local design, but your point is well taken.
MRS. STEFFAN-Well, I don’t know, what does the rest of the Board feel about this traffic study?
I mean, we’ve been all over the map with it. Some folks are for it. Some folks are not. I’m for it.
I know others are not, but I’m writing the motion.
MR. KREBS-My feeling on that is that if you do a traffic study for this one individual property,
you’re still going to have to do another traffic study if they develop the rest of that property, and I
don’t see that this one adds any significant change to the traffic pattern that’s there.
MRS. STEFFAN-One hundred cars?
MR. KREBS-But it, well, if you put, what do you think used to be in that motel and the Howard
Johnson’s restaurant?
MRS. STEFFAN-At least 10 years ago. This was a very different community 10 years ago.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. KREBS-And the road was very different 10 years ago.
MR. TRAVER-It’s my feeling that with the left out off the table for now, I think that, you know, we
can forgo, for the two year period that we talked about, a re-visiting of the traffic study and wait
and see what happens with that other development. If there is no further development, then
we’re left with what they’re proposing which is one diner with this large parcel, and no left turn
out. If there is any development, then we’re going to be taking a look at this whole original,
although segmented, this whole package, and we’ll really have a traffic study, and it may very
well lead to an interconnect with the circle and some of the other things that we’re talking about,
but I think to, you know, to give it a few years, with not changing the use of the exit.
MR. FORD-It seems almost premature, realizing the anticipated expansion of that enlarged site,
to do a traffic study now. I would rather see it done in two years or whatever, whenever we have
the anticipation of how the rest of that development. I think that’s the time for the traffic study.
MRS. STEFFAN-Who’s going to do the traffic study at that point, in two years?
MR. TRAVER-Well, perhaps no one, but if in two years they want to come back and get a left
turn out, then we’re going to need to do a traffic study, if there’s no further development.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes, I’d go along with that, at this time.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, so, you know.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-In two years, or maybe sooner, depending on what happens, then I would.
MR. TRAVER-Then it would be up to them to say, okay, it’s been two years, now we want to
reconsider the left out.
MR. OBORNE-If you’re going to go down that avenue, I would say right turn only, in consultation
with New York State Department of Transportation, and the Town of Queensbury Department of
Community Development. Because I’d like to be privy to some of those conversations, if at all
possible, and not saying that the applicant has, it’s been full disclosure, but, I mean, three
o’clock today.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. FORD-If we’re going to require right only?
MR. OBORNE-Correct. Because they want mitigation on that left.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Who does?
MR. OBORNE-DOT. They want.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Yes I read it, but I didn’t get that, that it was a sticking point for them at the
moment.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. OBORNE-It was certainly a recommendation or something that they wished to see. I don’t
know what the exact verbiage is.
MR. FORD-If it was approved for left.
MR. OBORNE-No.
MR. KREBS-No, they said our preference would be a shared access with left turn exiting
movements prohibited.
MR. OBORNE-Prohibited, right, and the prohibited, how are you going to do that?
MR. KREBS-There is no shared access.
MR. OBORNE-I would still advise the Board to have DOT involved in that.
MR. KREBS-I mean, the one above says that they’ll go along, New York State Department of
Transportation will be willing to consider the access as proposed, assuming that we approve it.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. Let me throw this scenario out, because somebody else is going to
have to write the motion, because I just can’t move this forward saying that they shouldn’t have
a traffic study. I feel that strongly about it. You’re talking about one of the busiest intersections
in our community. We asked the development up at Exit 20, we wanted a full blown traffic study
when they wanted to put an office complex in there. There was a hotel going down at Exit 18
and we looked at the traffic patterns that were over there, and so you’re looking at a
development that’s going to add 100 cars, but Pyramid has decided that they’re going to sell
pieces of this piece of property away, this 11 acre spot. So if this diner goes in, and we approve
it, okay, that’s 100 cars. Potentially 100 cars going out into that busiest intersection in our
community, and then what if three other lots get sold there, and, one at a time.
MR. LAPPER-There’s only one other lot.
MRS. STEFFAN-One other lot?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. The other lot comes in and they’re going to put a hotel in, and then who
pays for the traffic study, the hotel?
MR. LAPPER-The applicant.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, the new applicant.
MR. KREBS-Otherwise it won’t get approved.
MRS. STEFFAN-Okay. So this Planning Board is going to say, okay, now we want the hotel to
do a study, and we want that study to demonstrate the cumulative impacts of the diner.
MR. HUNSINGER-No, the diner would already be there.
MR. LAPPER-We wouldn’t get the left turn unless there’s some reason. I mean, they’re giving
up the left turn. They may never get a left turn.
MRS. STEFFAN-But you’re still adding all of that movement to the intersection.
MR. TRAVER-The other context that we’re looking at the traffic in is that we have an existing
2001 traffic study. So the question is not whether or not we want a traffic study at all. The
question is whether or not the existing traffic study needs to be updated to reflect this new
project, which is a somewhat different thing. I mean, your concern is well warranted, but we’re
not acting in the absence of any traffic study at all. We’re just saying that, has this, does this
project present sufficient change to traffic, as we’re now looking at it, with the consideration of
the access as the applicant has agreed with no left out, that we have them update the existing
most recent traffic study for this area, and my feeling is that, unless there’s a change in the
development in this area by this sale of this other piece of property or they come back and say,
well, we want to have an analysis done because we really want that left out, then we do a traffic
study, but for this, since they’ve given up the left out, I think we’re probably okay, but that’s just
me.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MRS. STEFFAN-I just, with the traffic counts coming off of Exit 19 during peak times, I just, I
can’t be okay with not having a traffic study to identify the impact.
MR. TRAVER-Well, it’s certainly an argument to be made for that point of view, no question
about it.
MRS. STEFFAN-There’s usually three lanes of traffic coming off the Northway Monday through
Friday, and hat doesn’t take into account November and December during the holidays, peak
times, and it doesn’t take into account right now. I mean, you can go to any intersection in this
Town, right now that school’s out, summer vacation, and they’re all jammed up.
MR. LAPPER-But we’re giving up the left. I mean, that was the crucial movement.
MRS. STEFFAN-I understand the left. That was a major issue, but we’re still looking at adding a
lot of traffic, and.
MR. LAPPER-It’s existing traffic.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-But that’s what’s going to happen anyhow. If you build something that,
you’re going to add traffic. That’s just a given, unless you’re going to plant hay or something
and leave it as a farm field. If you build a building there, there’s going to be traffic. It’s got to be
safe.
MRS. STEFFAN-I would like to just remind the Board of what we went through when we okayed
the Golden Corral, and the debate and the argument we had about traffic turning out onto that
road, and it didn’t matter what direction it was going, we were very concerned that we were
adding traffic to Quaker Road.
MR. LAPPER-But here we’re giving it up.
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s what I was going to say. I mean, the purpose of the traffic study is to
determine whether or not there’s mitigation required, and the applicant gave up the single
biggest mitigation that would be necessary, no left hand turn out of the property.
MR. TRAVER-And it’s inevitable that there will be an update to the traffic study in this area.
MRS. STEFFAN-So where’s the traffic going to go, if you can’t make a left turn out? Where is
the traffic going to go to turn around?
MR. HUNSINGER-That’s what I had asked earlier.
MR. FORD-The same place that they suggested for the buses.
MRS. STEFFAN-To go to the Mall parking lot.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MRS. STEFFAN-And so we’ll be adding traffic to the Mall parking scenario that was under the
old Environmental Impact Statement. I’m just, this is too complicated.
MR. LAPPER-The old Environmental Impact Statement was for so many more cars than we’re
talking about here.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MRS. STEFFAN-I don’t know. I’ll give it up. If somebody wants to go with a motion, go ahead. I
just, I still feel very strongly about this.
MR. LAPPER-Is it possible that we could get back here in a few weeks to talk about
architecture?
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, what are the other issues? Lighting?
MRS. STEFFAN-Corrections to landscaping plan. They need to have Code compliant lighting.
Sign details.
MR. LAPPER-We have sign details.
MR. OBORNE-And as drawn, they’re going to need a variance.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. HUNSINGER-I’m sorry, Keith?
MR. OBORNE-That sign details, as presented they will need a variance.
MR. LAPPER-Why?
MR. OBORNE-Because it’s oversized. It’s greater than 50 square feet. DINER is considered
part of the sign.
MR. LAPPER-We reduced it. There’s no intention of a Sign Variance here. It’s going to comply.
MRS. STEFFAN-And then there’s the color palate design, with LED.
MR. LAPPER-Does the Board have anything in mind, or should we just come in with all of them
and you can pick?
MRS. STEFFAN-LED intensity.
MR. FORD-SEQRA Long Form.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is there anything else in Staff comments or engineering comments?
MRS. STEFFAN-And regarding the LED lighting, Staff Notes Page S-7 is any of the LED lighting
flashing.
MR. LAPPER-None of it’s flashing. Queensbury doesn’t allow it. There’s no flashing.
MRS. STEFFAN-And then there’s the engineering comments.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-Do we have a date that we can table this to?
MR. OBORNE-August would be preferable.
MR. LAPPER-We really need to be in in July. They missed May, not through anyone’s fault, but
because the agenda. If there’s any way to get in July.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-What’s the first meeting in August?
th
MR. OBORNE-The 17.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-So there’s only three meetings between now and then, not counting the
Special Meeting Thursday night. Is that right?
stththstththth
MR. OBORNE-Yes, the 21, the 28, and the 17. The 21 and 28 of July or the 17 or 24 of
August.
MR. FORD-And July is jammed right now.
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MR. SCHONEWOLF-Well, then it’ll have to be the 17 of August, Mr. Chairman.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Well, does someone want to take a crack at the resolution? If not, I
will.
MR. TRAVER-We talked about taking turns drafting resolutions. As I recall a few meetings ago,
I.
MR. HUNSINGER-And you did well, Steve.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, well, I cheated. She had already written most of it.
MR. HUNSINGER-All right. I’ll take a stab at it and see what I’ve got.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 35-2010 BOB & DENNIS PILARINOS, Introduced by
Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen Traver:
1. A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the
following: Applicant proposes demolition of the 8,800 sq. ft. former Howard Johnson’s
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
restaurant and construction of a 5,400 sq. ft. diner with associated site work. Food Service in
the ESC zone requires Planning Board review and approval
2. A public hearing was advertised and held on 6/22/2010 tabled to 7/27/2010; and
3. This application is supported with all documentation, public comment and application
material in the file of record;
4. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 35-2010 BOB & DENNIS PILARINOS, Introduced
by Chris Hunsinger who moved for its adoption, seconded by Stephen Traver:
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Tabled to the July 27 Planning Board meeting, with a submittal date of July 6, 2010, so that the
applicant can submit the following:
1.Revised lighting plan
2.Revised landscaping plan
3.Submission of color schemes and/or additional design details
4.Revised sign details.
5.So the applicant can address engineering comments
6.So the applicant can further detail the LED lighting information.
7.So that they can submit a SEQRA Long Form
8.Provide photographs of similar diners in both daylight and night shots
9.To remove the left out on their plans
10.So that DOT can review the revised ingress/egress and comment
nd
Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
MR. TRAVER-I think they also, although the applicant’s attorney was not at the table, but I think
the architect agreed to give us some photographic information from some other facilities, both
day and nighttime?
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-And the next set of plans, do they need to reflect the absence of a left out, so you
can modify the plan to reflect that?
MR. FORD-Yes.
MR. LAPPER-That’s fine. I just have a suggestion on the date. Everybody’s least favorite
th
application, Fedorowicz, is not going to be heard. That was supposed to be on on the 28, but
the Town Counsel didn’t get papers in, so that’s not going to go back to the judge. So that might
be available. It’s just really important to Dennis to get this on in July, in the hope that he could
have it constructed in the Fall.
th
MR. TRAVER-You mean the 27?
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MR. LAPPER-The 27, yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I mean, my concern is having an extensive list of information, providing
you enough time to prepare it all, and then having enough time for it to be submitted and
reviewed. That’s really, you know, the main concern there.
MR. TRAVER-Would this be a situation where having Special Meeting with counsel present? I
mean, I know, you know, just what we need is another meeting, but, I mean, we have some
issues relating to SEQRA, the landowners of the buildings that are to be removed, you know, I
don’t know, I mean, and they want to move forward quickly. So would it be worth scheduling
another meeting to hash this stuff out, with counsel present?
MR. HUNSINGER-You mean in July?
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MRS. STEFFAN-Well, I think it’s an unrealistic expectation to have an extra meeting in July
because we’re down a couple of people , with, you know, absences already, and so we’re not
going to have enough alternates to go around for the meetings.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MRS. STEFFAN-Which is a problem. If we can fit it on that other meeting, we could just have it,
because it’s old business, it could be the first item on the agenda, or one of the first items on the
agenda, so that counsel could be present early in the meeting, and just do it that way.
MR. LAPPER-It would be great if we could have counsel here, so we could just get this settled.
MRS. STEFFAN-We’ll have it early in the meeting.
MR. OBORNE-If I could just mention that right turn out only, if you could have the DOT weigh in
on that also, as part of your resolution, even though it’s part of my discussion to you.
MR. TRAVER-In other words, get a review opinion from DOT.
MR. OBORNE-On the updated traffic plan.
MR. TRAVER-Updated left out.
MR. KREBS-Can we ask you to get that for us?
MR. TRAVER-Well, I think the applicant.
MR. OBORNE-The applicant.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-It’s the applicant has to do it.
MR. TRAVER-That’s a good idea.
MR. HUNSINGER-So, are we saying July then? I’m confused.
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MR. FORD-27.
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MR. HUNSINGER-July 27. Okay. I will revise the motion.
MR. FORD-Do you want to give them a submittal date?
MR. OBORNE-And if you could be so kind as to say this is a firm committal date. That would be
greatly appreciated.
nd
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, I can’t see us going any later than July 2.
MR. LAPPER-But it doesn’t have to go to the County Planning Board or anything.
MR. HUNSINGER-No. You’ve already done that.
ndth
MR. LAPPER-So do you really need it that quick, July 2 for the 28?
MRS. STEFFAN-It’s a holiday weekend.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, it’s a holiday weekend.
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MRS. STEFFAN-So they’re not going to get to it until the 6.
MR. HUNSINGER-And there’s a meeting between then and.
MR. OBORNE-The engineer has to review.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. I think we have to rely on Town Staff to tell us what their window is.
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MR. HUNSINGER-July 6?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
thth
MR. OBORNE-I’d prefer August 17, for the record, but with that said, the 6 is a holiday. No,
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the 6 is not a holiday.
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MR. HUNSINGER-The 5’s the holiday.
ndth
MR. OBORNE-Well, what’s the difference between the 2 or the 6? It’s only four days.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, that’s what I’m saying, yes.
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MR. OBORNE-And to turn it around to Clark, and you’re talking, what did you say, is it the 27?
th
MR. HUNSINGER-The 27.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-That’s the meeting date?
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. SCHONEWOLF-I can’t make that, because I’m going to be out of town.
nd
MR. OBORNE-I’d say the 2 is really where you should be going with this, in order for Clark to
turn it around and Staff to review.
th
MR. LAPPER-The best we could do would be next Friday, the 8.
th
MR. OBORNE-Next Friday would be the 9.
th
MR. LAPPER-Okay. Friday the 9. That would be the best we could do.
MR. OBORNE-That wouldn’t work for me.
MR. LAPPER-It wouldn’t work?
MR. OBORNE-No, I don’t think I could turn it around.
th
MR. LAPPER-To the 27? That’s still 16 days.
MR. OBORNE-Yes, but I mean, that, we also have a full docket.
MR. HUNSINGER-You’ve got all the other projects. You’ve got a meeting in between.
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MR. OBORNE-We could split it and say the 6.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. OBORNE-Somebody’s working over Independence Day.
MR. LAPPER-Well, the DOT comment letter we can’t control. That would be a one pager.
rd
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, that can come in on the 23. I mean, we don’t expect you to have that
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by the, but we expect you to submit all of your materials by the 6.
MRS. STEFFAN-But at the same time, as the Secretary of the Planning Board, if we got
something at the night of the Planning Board meeting, would we accept it? Would you weigh
and consider it?
rd
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, what I’m saying is, if you get it on the 23, it can go out with Staff
Notes, and we would then have time to consider it.
MR. LAPPER-That’s just for DOT.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, that’s just a one letter. I mean, we got a memo tonight from DOT.
MRS. STEFFAN-Which we all interpreted differently.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right. Well, I shouldn’t say, we didn’t all, but some of us.
MR. TRAVER-Well, we presented it differently anyway.
MR. LAPPER-We’ll try and get a simpler one for next time.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
MR. FORD-Thank you.
MR. LAPPER-We’ll do our best.
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MR. HUNSINGER-We’re tabling this to July 27. We had a motion and a second. We’re on
discussion about submittal date.
th
MR. TRAVER-And it looks as though the 6 is the outside.
th
MR. LAPPER-Tom is saying he can’t do it before Friday the 9 of that week.
MR. FORD-It looks like August.
th
MR. LAPPER-The 9 is the earliest you can do. I guess it’s an important three days.
thth
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, the 15 is the submittal date for August. You look at the 9, you
know, you’re almost at the submittal date for August.
MR. LAPPER-But it’s only on specific issues. It’s not like a whole new project.
MR. TRAVER-But it has to be looked at by the engineer and by Staff.
th
MR. LAPPER-Can we take the 6 and see how we do?
th
MR. HUTCHINS-We can take the 6, and if we miss it, we miss it.
MR. OBORNE-Keep in mind, if they miss it, you just bumped off somebody from, somebody
who’s on the agenda right now.
MR. TRAVER-We’re replacing an existing vacancy anyway.
MR. OBORNE-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, in theory. I mean, we haven’t set the agenda for July yet. So, I mean,
it’s only in theory.
MR. TRAVER-You do what you can do.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. We have a motion and a second and the additional amendment is that
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the submittal date shall be July 6. So that would be an amendment to the motion.
AYES: Mr. Sipp, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Ford, Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: Mrs. Steffan
MR. HUNSINGER-And just for the record, the public hearing was held open. We will take, you
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know, any additional comments on July 27, and if anyone in the audience wants to submit
written comments between now and then we’d accept them as well.
MR. LAPPER-Thanks for working with us and we’ll try and get a submittal in that addresses all
these issues, and you guys like better.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. LAPPER-Even Gretchen, hopefully.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other business? I was informed, after we had all left the room at our last
meeting, that we had never formally adjourned. So, is there any additional business to be
brought before the Board? If not, I will entertain a motion to adjourned.
MR. FORD-Both meetings?
MR. HUNSINGER-Both meetings, yes.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF JUNE 22,
2010 AND JUNE 15, 2010, Introduced by Thomas Ford who moved for its adoption, seconded
by Donald Sipp:
48
(Queensbury Planning Board 06/22/2010)
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Duly adopted this 22 day of June, 2010, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Traver, Mr. Schonewolf, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Ford, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Sipp,
Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
MR. HUNSINGER-See everybody Thursday.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Chris Hunsinger, Chairman
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