1990-09-04 SP
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QUEENSBDRY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 4TH, 1990
INDEX
Site Plan No. 68-90
73 Quaker Road Assoc.
Tiernan, Bernstein, and Pinchuk
1.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBDRY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 4TH, 1990
5:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
RICHARD ROBERTS, CHAIRMAN
PETER CARTIER
JAMES HAGAN
JAMES MARTIN
NICHOLAS CAlMANO
MEMBERS ABSENT
CAROL PULVER
CONRAD KUPILLAS
DEPUTY TOWN ATTOBBEY- KARLA CORPUS
PLANNER-JOHN GORALSKI
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
SITE PLAN 110. 68-90 TYPE: UNLISTED DC-lA PC-lA 73 QUAlŒR ROAD ASSOC. C/O
TIERNAN, BERNSTEIN, AND PIIICHUK OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE SOUTHWEST COBBER OF QUAKER.
ROAD AND GLENWOOD AVENUE PROPOSAL FOR A IIEW SHOPPIIIG CENTER IIICLUDIIIG A RESTAURAIIT
AND DRIVE THROUGH BANK. (WADER COUNTY PLANNIIIG) TAX MAP 110. 101-4.31. 4.4 LaI
SIZE: 4.40 ACRES TO BE DEVELOPED SECTION 4.020K
DAVE KLEIN, PRESENT
MR. ROBERTS-Let's open this Special Meeting, then, to try to avail ourselves out
of some corners we got ourselves into at the last meeting, I guess. The first
problem, I guess, is that we found that we did not have that meeting room available,
that night. So, we had to do something different about a night.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. ROBERTS-Do you want to explain it further?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I was back and forth with Mark Schachner on this and with Dick
and, I guess, eventually, what we decided was to go with is that the Quaker Plaza
application, Which was tabled, would be placed on the agenda for the second regular
meeting of September, under Old Business, that the applicant would get their Traffic
Study to us by September 5th, as was stated in the original resolution, and that
the remainder of the information would be brought in by September 7th, Which is
Friday.
MR. CARTIER-Which gives you guys time to review?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. The important thing is that we get the Traffic Study.
MR. HAGAN-Well, I think youlve got to add one more point, and that is, that we
allow the applicant to make a change in his application without the benefit of
Board review or Staff Review.
MR. GORALSKI-That's right.
MR. HAGAN-And I think you've got to put that in there.
MR. GORALSKI-Thatls true.
MR. ROBERTS-Yes, I'm looking at this meeting as, really, an extension of our last
meeting that we never finished. Since that time, however, some other information,
I think, has come to us and, apparently the applicant's going to add a few other
things, too, and, in my mind, we're kind of starting from scratch, because I think
even having "sort of" agreed, that night, about that particular light, I think,
maybe in hindsight, we want to look at that whole thing again and I thing we ought
to start from scratch.
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MR. CAlMANO-Well, I agree with Jim and you also, though. When I talked to you
and talked to Lee, it really was my intent that night, maybe we were just too
tired, to carryon from where we were and it was never my intent that we would
look at Country Club Road versus the other one, without having them look at it.
I really thought it was getting too long.
MR. ROBERTS-I think we kind of all agree on that.
MR. HAGAN-Plus, one other thing. There was a misunderstanding between the applicant
and the Warren County DPW.
MR. CAlMANO-You bet.
MR. HAGAN-Because one claims they discussed the lighting arrangement at Country
Club Road and the other claims they didn't.
MR. CAlMANO-That's right.
MR. HAGAN-So, somewhere there was a misunderstanding.
MR. ROBERTS-Well, that's one of the reasons why we kind of need to step back,
probably.
MR. CAlMANO-That was really serious, When I heard about it.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, Mark Schachner claims he had two memorandums there.
MR. KLEIN-We're going to submit the letter. Is this an open forum?
MR. HAGAN-Excuse me. I'm sorry. You'll have to introduce yourself.
MR. KLEIN-11m Dave Klein, the North Country Engineer.
MR. ROBERTS-Yes, he's their engineer.
MR. HAGAN-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, at this point, I think what we should do is just, with all
that said, Whatever information the applicant is going to present, it's my opinion
that we can review it, if the revision in the Traffic Study and any changes relating
to traffic are given to us by September 5th, Which is tomorrow, and that engineering
changes that have to be made are given to us by September 7th.
MR. ROBERTS-And John is going to try his best to get all of this through the other
agencies. We want Freddie Austin, probably, a letter or something from him.
We want New York State DOT. We want the Highway Superintendent and, Whether we'll
get all this stuff back to our satisfaction in that time, we don't know.
MR. MARTIN-Are we going to have the Traffic Study, this time, with the information?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, and that will be distributed to you.
that tomorrow and that will be distributed to you.
We're supposed to get
MR. CARTIER-Does your client own Northway Floors and that whole chunk?
MR. KLEIN-No, they own Mallincrodkt.
MR. MARTIN-He owns, like, aU-shaped
MR. CAlMANO-I' 11 tell you, since the meeting, however, I don't know about the
rest of you guys, I have, While we were up there until midnight, at this meeting,
that whole thing got out of proportion because the distance from Country Club
to Glenwood, that traffic engineer is crazy, because there I s no way that I would
ever approve two lights there. We'd drive ourselves nuts.
MR. MARTIN-Or the distance from Country Club to LaFayette.
MR. HAGAN-Now, hold it. For the full benefit of both sides, they did say, very
carefully, that those lights would have to be synchronized. In effect, they would
be one light. They would turn red and green at the same time.
MR. CAlMANO-Yes, I understand that, but, as someone else and I had discussed,
that happens to be, without going through this whole thing,
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MR. GORALSKI-Yes, I think the proper place to discuss this would be when we set
up the next meeting. So, in the interest of not staying here all night, I would
recommend,
MR. KLEIN-Could I add something? We came prepared, the other night, to make a
full presentation and address a lot of comments. We didn't have any problems
with tabling the meeting, at the late hours, so everybody could have a chance
to look things over and we I re coming back the 17th, Which gave us enough time,
if needed to re-submit for the October agenda. It would give us 10 days to
re-submit for the October agenda. If we get tabled on the 25th, or, youlre talking
about the 27th for a meeting, we need the Board's assurance that we would have
a Special Meeting in October, that we would have enough time to
MR. ROBERTS -You're going to get no such assurance, absolutely, no such assurance.
We were probably talking more leniency than we should have been, the other night,
and I think that this is a bigger project that's just getting off the ground,
I think, as far as most of us are concerned.
MR. KLEIN-Well, we came prepared, on a great expense to the clients, we brought
an architect in from Canada. We brought traffic consultants in, lawyers in, all
prepared to present our case at the last meeting, \\hich would have given us a
whole month to get re-submitted for the October meeting.
MR. CAlMANO-Wait a minute, that was your decision to make that expense and the
reason that was done is, the more the merry in hopes of getting the thing passed
and I don't blame you, but that expense is not our problem, that's your problem.
MR. CARTIER-Yes, let's understand how this thing works.
MR. KLEIN-Well, we didn't have to table it.
MR. CAlMANO-No, we could have turned it down.
MR. CARTIER-The only thing we could've reviewed that night, properly, \\as Plan
A, the first thing you submitted.
MR. KLEIN-Right.
MR. CARTIER-And then you guys started talking about Plan B and the grade thing
and that had not been through the entire review process and that's Why we're back
to square one.
MR. KLEIN-There I s other things that can be changed in the course of design. You
people are going to have comments about where youl d like traffic lights, Wiere
handicapped spots are going to be.
MR. CAlMANO-The point is, that should be with John and Lee's Department, that
we should not engineer. We got into a problem of engineering the job, on-site,
the other night, too, Which we canlt do. Am I rightt Dick?
MR. ROBERTS -We I ve got to go back and talk some basic philosophies before we send
them back to the drawing board to design it. Until we decide where the light
should be, if the light should be and where entrances are going to be, how do
you know how to design the project, really? We're just moving them too fast on
this thing.
MR. KLEIN-But, by delaying our hearing the other night, is delaying the project,
substantially, unneededly. We are prepared to go back to the drawing boards and
re-submit for the October meeting and now we I re not going to be able to do that.
MR. ROBERTS-That's correct.
MR. CAlMANO-Well, we could do that. We could make a motion to kill the project
and make them start allover again. I mean, if you want to do that, if you want
to get on the October agenda with a brand new project, that's easy. All we've
got to do is make a motion to reject the project.
MR. KLEIN-We would like to have been able to address all the comments the other
night, though and then get on the October agenda.
MR. ROBERTS -Well, I thought I told you, the other night, you were rather naive
to think you could get this all done as quickly as you guys, apparently, thought
you were going to get it done.
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MR. KLEIN-W~ w~r~ anticipating two m~~tings. W~ w~r~ anticipating th~ pr~vious
nights and, du~ to th~ SChêduling, we ~xp~ct~d to b~ on th~ Octob~r m~~ting.
Now, we' v~ got a quart~r of a m~~ting don~. W~ addr~ss~d on~ topic, bri~fly,
out of hundr~ds, and now w~' v~ got to com~ back on a sch~dul~ that's not going
to l~t us m~~t at th~ Octob~r m~~ting.
MR. CARTIER-Wêll, you guys hav~ got to go through th~ r~viêw proc~ss that ~v~rybody
~ls~ go~s through, \\hich includ~s going through, going through County and so on
and so forth and, Wh~n all of thos~ ducks ar~ in a row, th~n, we will tak~ a look
at it, but thos~ things hav~ to b~ don~ first. What you'r~ asking us to do, in
~ff~ct, is just blow away thê whol~ r~vi~w proc~ss and mak~ a sp~cial cas~ and
w~'v~ b~~n trying to g~t away from that.
MR. KLEIN-W~ don't want you to blow away th~ r~vi~w proc~ss. W~ think it's a
v~ry worthwhil~ proc~ss. W~'r~ just asking for th~ sam~ consid~ration that anybody
~ls~ would hav~ b~~n giv~n.
MR. CAlMANO-Hold it. Not
alr~ady. W~ stay~d th~r~
consid~ration. W~' r~ h~r~,
and I r~s~nt it wh~n you say
only ar~ you g~tting that, you' r~ g~tting b~yond it
until lat~ th~ oth~r night to giv~ you just such
l~tting you talk, to giv~ you just such consid~ration
things lik~ that.
MR. KLEIN-I don I t m~an to g~t you irritat~d, but I'm trying to g~t th~ proj~ct
built for th~ cli~nts and th~ r~vi~w proc~ss is on~ of thos~ stag~s and th~ sch~dul~
is v~ry critical.
MR. CARTIER-W~ll, okay, but und~rstand that our main conc~rn is not your sch~dul~,
you hav~ to und~rstand that. C~rtainly, it I S a conc~rn of yours and that's a
valid conc~rn that you should hav~, but that I s not th~ driving forc~ for this
Board. W~ hav~ oth~r things that w~ hav~ to consid~r.
MR. ROBERTS-And w~' r~ pr~tty much at a starting point. W~ hav~n' t ~v~n look~d
at SEQRA and if w~ would hav~ look~d at SEQRA clos~ly, th~ oth~r night, we probably
would hav~ said it r~quir~d a Full Environm~ntal Impact Stat~m~nt with th~ traffic
as up in th~ air as it was and, unl~ss we can mitigat~ som~ of thos~ circumstanc~s,
this could go on for a good many months. I told you you w~r~ naiv~ th~ oth~r
night and you' r~ still trying to b~ a littl~ naiv~, I think, in thinking you' r~
going to ov~rwh~lm us and put this through as fast as you can.
MR. HAGAN-I III t~ll you this, my p~rsonal opinion is, that it's going to b~hoov~
you to go through th~ proc~ss b~caus~ as your whol~ proj~ct sits and looks at
m~ right now, I can giv~ you nothing, but disapproval, that's just my opinion.
I could not vot~ any oth~r way, but to disapprov~ your proj~ct.
MR. KLEIN-Mark couldn' t b~ h~r~, tonight, and h~ pr~par~d a l~tt~r h~ ask~d m~
to giv~ th~ Board. I 'v~ got s~v~ral copi~s or do you just want m~ to ~nt~r it
into th~ fil~?
MS. CORPUS-Why don't you giv~ on~ to ~v~rybody, Dav~.
MR. GORALSKI-Would you lik~ m~ to r~ad this into th~ r~cord?
MR. ROBERTS-W~ll, I gu~ss we don't know what it says unl~ss we r~ad it.
MR. CAlMANO-Go ah~ad.
MR. GORALSKI-R~ad l~tt~r from Mark J. Schachn~r, to Qu~~nsbury Planning Board
m~mb~rs, dat~d S~pt~mb~r 4th, 1990 (attach~d)
MR. CARTIER-Dav~, to m~, th~r~ I s still a basic misund~rstanding r~pr~s~nt~d in
this lett~r, in his comm~nts and I would lik~ you to carry that back to Mark.
Th~ basic misund~rstanding that I s~~ is that Mark do~s not und~rstand that what
you submitt~d, Wi~n you chang~d g~ars at that m~~ting, in t~rms of submitting
Plan B, at that point, Wiat should'v~ happ~n~d with this Board was, we should
hav~ stopp~d right th~r~.
MR. KLEIN-W~ didn't m~an on submitting plan B. Th~r~'s all kinds of chang~s that
can happ~n in th~ planning proc~ss. On~ of th~ things was putting a light at
Gl~nwood. On~ of th~ things was putting a light at Country Club and w~ I r~ just
talking about th~ possibiliti~s of what w~ can do.
MR. CARTIER-But, if I und~rstand it, you w~r~ pr~s~nting to us, th~ Plan B, th~
gr~y ac~tat~ flip, is What I'm calling Plan B.
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MR. KLEIN-Yês, as an altêrnativê.
MR. CARTIER-But that was an altêrnativê that had not been looked at by Staff or
anybody êlsê.
MR. MARTIN-See, and I think thê point Peter's trying to make is, a plan that is
ultimatêly approvêd dOês havê to go through Staff review.
MR. KLEIN-I bêgged John, before the mêeting, to sit down with our traffic consultant
and go oVêr the diffêrent altêrnatives.
MR. GORALSKI-Aftêr the submission deadline datê.
MR. KLEIN-After the submission dêadline date. I wanted to work things out, but
he didn't think therê was a nêêd to hear what traffic consultants had to say.
MR. ROBERTS -It was too latê, anyway, after the submission dêadline datê. As we
said, any changes, at that time, would have nêcêssitated going through thê Planning
process again.
MS. CORPUS-Dave, can I ask you a question? Just for clarification for mê, given
what you've alrêady bêen through with thê Planning Board that night and things
that YOU'Vê learned and dêcisions that you have made basêd on that meeting, if
you were to withdraw your application, now, and re-submit by the end of this month
to gêt on that Octobêr agenda, that seems to be the prime objêctive, herê, would
you haVê some objection to that?
MR. KLEIN-Yês, bêcause we didn't have an opportunity to talk about all the diffêrent
problêms with the dêsign. We nêver went through êngineering reviêw. I want to
gêt êVêrybody's fêêdback to all those different aspêcts of the job and then Wê
would have addrêssêd all thoSê itêms, took our timê, submitted for the Octobêr
mêeting, in plênty of timê.
MS. CORPUS-Well, you did gH rêviêw notes from the Staff Enginêer and from the
Board.
MR. GORALSKI-And you mêt with thêm since thê meeting.
MS. CORPUS-And, you mêt with thêm. I don't know, does that change that position
at all? I mêan, it's not like thê mêêting was a total wastê of time.
MR. KLEIN-No, it wasn't, but Wê only addressêd one issue and that was the traffic
li gh t .
MR. CAlMANO-Hundrêds morê than that.
MR. KLEIN-Wêll, maybê we addressed threê iSSUês t but therê' s hundreds of issues
on a projêct of this SiZê.
MR. ROBERTS-And that issuê is still up in the air, thê iSSUê of the traffic light.
MR. KLEIN-When I lêft the mêêting, I thought Wê had a clear consênsus of the Board
that thêY werê favoring the light at Glenwood and we spênt a heck of a lot of
time rêvising thê drawings, now, showing that light at Glênwood and how it êffêcts
thê drainage.
MR. GORALSKI-Glenwood or Country Club?
MR. KLEIN-Country Club. How it'll êffect thê lighting, thê drainage. We'rê rêdoing
thê drainage report to rêflêct thosê changes. There's a ton of monêy that I'm
absorbing.
MR. GORALSKI-You'rê missing thê point. The point is that
has not had an opportunity to rêviêw the design, based
Club Road and thê aCCêSs across from Country Club Road.
Staff, I feel that it I s unfair to ask thêse people to
a sufficiênt rêviêW from their Staff.
the Planning Board Staff
on the light at Country
As thê Planning Board's
makê a decision without
MR. MARTIN-Without technical support.
MR. CARTIER-Wê don't sit herê and nêgotiate a projêct that Staff has not lookêd
at Yêt.
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MR. KLEIN-W~ll, I und~rstand. I hop~ you can r~vi~w th~ proj~ct, John, with th~
light at Country Club.
MR. MARTIN-And I g~t this un~asy s~ns~, h~r~, that you think that, now th~ Country
Club Road light is s~t in ston~ and that's it and, pl~as~ go back and say, at
l~ast in my mind, that it, by no m~ans, th~ cas~.
MR. ROBERTS-Absolut~ly, and it was not my int~ntion you guys sp~nd a whol~ lot
mor~ mon~y on a whol~ n~w application b~caus~ w~lr~ not at that point, y~t. W~'r~
going to, basically, continu~ looking at your original submission. If you want
to mak~ a f~w chang~s, okay, but, as far as I 'm conc~rn~d, all w~ n~~d to do is
to look at that original submission and look at som~ basic conc~pts, starting
with plac~m~nt of light and additional traffic information.
MR. HAGAN-Y~s, but th~ plac~m~nt of light chang~s th~ original submission.
MR. ROBERTS -It may, that's Why h~ b~tt~r plan on, mayb~, having to sp~nd s~v~ral
months at this. Th~r~ls no way to do it as fast as th~y'r~ going to want to do
it .
MR. MARTIN-What was th~ fe~ling of th~ m~èting, th~ oth~r night, or my f~~ling
was that th~ Plan B, as is b~ing r~f~rr~d to, was mayb~ b~tt~r than th~ original
submission of th~ thr~~ curb cuts along Quak~r Road, that's all that was said,
that's not to say that that is th~ ultimat~, pr~f~rred option.
MR. ROBERTS-That's right.
MR. MARTIN-And mayb~ th~ ultimat~ pr~f~rr~d option is no curb cuts on Quak~r Road
and acc~ss only on Glenwood. Who knows?
MR. CAlMANO-That I s right and I think if w~ read back the minut~s on the tape,
I said just that. It was the preferred of the two that we talked about. It did
not imply that we w~re approving th~ proj~ct in any way.
MR. KLEIN-I didn't say that I thought you approved the light at Country Club.
My thoughts were that, I got a g~n~ral consensus that that was you'r~
MR. HAGAN-It was more acceptable.
MR. MARTIN-Of the two that wer~ befor~ the Board that night.
MR. KLEIN-The problem I have, as an engineer, is, and I ~xplain this to my clients,
you guys want us to give you a traffic report based on every option. You want
us to give you a hydrolo gy report, a st ormwa ter report based on ev~ry opt ion,
grading plans on ~very option and we go back to the drawing boards, every time,
and we have to revise all these drawings. It's a considerable lot of expense.
MR. CARTIER-Well, understand that all of those options that you come up with are
options that you came up with, not options th~ Board has come up with. You com~
in with 27 options, I think it's appropriate that the Board ask for the information
on all those options. You can limit the options.
MR. CAlMANO-Right. You came in prepared for Plan B. You had an acetate to flip
over. We didn't ask you for Plan B. The only thing we said about traffic was
Peter, ~ll, two things we said about traffic. One we don't like the Quaker Road
traffic and B was the internal traffic, W:1ich Peter kept trying to bring up.
H~ doesn't like that either and neither does anybody else. So, the options, to
repeat, ~re your options.
MR. HAGAN-I think that we I ve got to keep getting back
whole project. I'm only speaking for myself, again,
trying to pack too much into a small parcel which
objectionable consequences to this community.
to the basic point of your
but I gather that you're
gives us reasons to find
MR. CARTIER-Youlre speaking for me, too.
MR. KLEIN-We're only building a little over 2700 square feet on a 4 and a half
acre parcel.
MR. HAGAN-That I s beside the point. If we were to have that same concentration
on every thousand feet of road frontage, forget the whole Quaker Road. You could
close it all down.
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MR. KLEIN-If we had a rectangular shaped lot, without all the constraints that
property has, we would have 60,000 square feet there.
MR. ROBERTS-Not necessarily.
MR. KLEIN-Yes, you'd want to scale it down some, I'm sure, but we would have the
ability to put quite a lot.
MR. ROBERTS -Go look at Doyle's. We I d like your pro j ect to look like the Doyle I s
corner.
MR. CAlMANO-I think, also, we're getting the cart, it seems to me, anyway, that
we're putting the cart before the horse. It's almost like what's going on in
the Far East, talking about hostages instead of Kuwait. You seem to be putting
the monkey on our back, When, in fact, you have come and said, I have this project,
would you approve that in this Town and now, all of a sudden, the guilt is over
here. I don't want the guilt.
MR. ROBERTS-Yes, we really shouldnlt be talking,
some of the concepts and the preliminary sketch plan
and you seem think it should be finished business,
going to work out that way.
in that first meeting, about
on something of this magnitude
the first night, and itls not
MR. KLEIN-For a subdivision process, you've got a three step process Where you
go through Sketch Plan review and everything. For a commercial Planning Board,
it's one step and, sometimes it gets dragged into two, three, seven, or eight
meetings.
MR. ROBERTS-Right.
MR. KLEIN-I understand that, but to submit for that, you have to have everything
all designed. If you had a three step process, maybe that would be different.
MR. CARTIER-What you need to do, as far as I'm concerned, is you have to come
in with what you figure is your best plan.
MR. KLEIN-Right.
MR. CARTIER-That has gone through Staff, and I don't mean just Town Staff, I mean
whatever agency it is appropriate to look at, DOT, Warren County, Whatever, okay,
and we take it from there.
MR. KLEIN-We I re trying to do that for tomorrow or for Friday, come in with our
best plan.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-Then I don't see a problem.
MR. CARTIER-I don't either.
MR. MARTIN-Within your development team, it should go through a very strict and
intensive review, at that level, because your developer is going to a lot of expense
to hire the experts and they should be the ones Who come up with the plan that
has the best chance, in their opinion, of meeting the requirements of the Town.
MR. CAlMANO-Two meetings ago, we had the Passarelli group with a project that,
essentially, was the same, right? I don I t remember it lasting that long. They
had done their homework. They said, this is What we want. We said, well, you
can't do that, you canlt do that, go back and look at it again and come back and
that's the end of it.
MR. ROBERTS-We haven't seen them since.
MR. CAlMANO-We haven't seen them since.
project.
They're working on restructuring the
MR. CARTIER-It should not take four hours of the Boards time for one submission,
one item on the agenda. If it's taking four hours for one item, then something
has gone haywire or something.
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MR. ROBERTS-Yes. Well, part of it was kind of misleading information and so forth.
MR. HAGAN-Okay, now what does this take? Do we have to make a motion to change
our last motion to table?
MS. CORPUS-Make a motion to rescind your previous motion and make a new motion.
MR. CAlMANO-We don't have to have a motion at all, right? It I s just going to
go back
MS. CORPUS-The Board has the option of tabling it with or without the applicant's
consent, at this point, to a date of the Board's choosing.
MR. GORALSKI-Because the submission deadline for September has passed, in order
to put this on September's agenda and accept the information this week, you need
to pass a motion to that effect.
MR. ROBERTS-We did that, though.
MR. MARTIN-So, we're making special exceptions.
MR. ROBERTS-We're not rescinding that part of our motion, before, are we?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I would recommend, this is the motion, I spoke to Mark Schachner
last week, and I spoke to you. I would recommend that you rescind your previous
motion, in its entirety. In place of that, pass a new motion placing Quaker Plaza
on the September 25th Planning Board agenda under Old Business and instructing
the applicant to have their Traffic Study to the Planning Department by September
5th at 2 pm and any other additional information they wish to submit by September
7th at 2 pm.
IIOTION TO RESCIND IIO'rION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 68-90 73 QUADR ROAD ASSOC. C/O
TIERNAN, BERNSTEIN, AND PINCBUK, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Peter Cartier:
Duly adopted this 4th day of September, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier, Mr. Martin, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Roberts
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Kupillas
MR. CAlMANO-I would move to table.
MS. CORPUS-It would either be with the applicant's consent or without, Whichever.
MR. KLEIN-We don't consent.
MR. CAlMANO-Okay.
IIOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 68-90
AND PINCBUK, Introduced by Nicholas
by Peter Cartier:
73 QUAKER ROAD ASSOC. clo TIERNAN, BERNSTEIN,
Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded
Tabled to the September 25th regular meeting under Old Business and that the
applicant will have submitted to the Planning Staff a Traffic Study by 2 pm, 9/5
and any other information they feel is necessary by 2 pm, 9/7. It should be noted
that this tabling is without the applicant's consent.
Duly adopted this 4th day of September, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier, Mr. Martin, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Roberts
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Kupillas
MR. ROBERTS-Just a point of legal information, can we do this?
MS. CORPUS-What happens is your SEQRA time periods start running. You have so
many days, from this time, to make a SEQRA determination.
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MR. CARTIER-Thirty or forty-fived ays, isn't it?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
MR. ROBERTS-From this time, or from, When, the first meeting?
MS. CORPUS-Well, the applicant consented to the last tabling. So, I don't believe
it would be from then.
MR. CARTIER-Well, \Ie're going to look at this, Wia t , three weeks f rom now?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, it would only be twenty days from today.
MS. CORPUS -1'11 get a conclusion on that, for that meeting.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. One of the things that came up somewhere, I don't remember
where now either, is that one of the things we wanted to look at was the entire
holdings on a map. Youlre just showing us a piece.
MR. KLEIN-No, \Ie submitted two surveys of the entire holdings.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. KLEIN-And I don't plan on re-submitting that type of information.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. ROBERTS-11m sorry that the applicant feels he I s being put upon, here. It
seems to me we Ire trying to be cooperative, but it IS not being appreciated at
all and we seem to be a logger heads, here. We've certainly got some serious
unanswered questions that don't deserve to be hurried and I hesitate to see the
applicant spend a fortune on a finished product. At this point, it's up to you.
It seems to me we're in the conceptual stage of looking at some of these things,
at this stage and I think we ought to continue to look at it that way. We haven't
finished our first meeting, yet, as far as we're concerned.
MR. KLEIN-It would have been nice if we could submit just conceptual things, but
youlve got a check list that you've got to have a stormwater report and you've
got to have finished contours. You've got to have everything.
MR. ROBERTS-That is true.
MR. KLEIN-I've built projects with less information.
MR. CARTIER-What is to prevent somebody from walking into the Planning Department,
on an informal basis, and having informal discussions with Staff members?
MR. GORALSKI-We've had informal discussions for the past year, on this project.
MR. CARTIER-So, there's an option.
MR. HAGAN-Aren't we overlooking, the consensus of op1.n1.ons in this community is
not desirous of this project from what little bit I know about our community.
MR. CARTIER-Well, \Ie still haven't held a public hearing on this thing, yet, have
we?
MR. ROBERTS-Well, yes, \Ie did.
and they were across the street.
We had one person respond to the public hearing
Just one person was there.
MR. CAlMANO-It's left open, though, right?
MR. ROBERTS-Yes, it's left open.
MR. CAlMANO-Well, I think it's funny that we have been, \Ie, as a Board, has been
rebuked, a little bit, by this letter and by you and it's so important to rebuke
us that, A. Mark can It even be here and he is being paid, as a lawyer and, B.
He can't even write his own letter and, again, he's being paid, as the attorney.
We're not being paid for this and I repeat, again, I take exception to the fact
that some cne feels that we I re not going out of our way, because we are going out
of our way, far more than for other applicants. Why? Because it's an important
commercial project and we thought we were doing the right thing. Instead, \Ie' re
getting our heads beat in for it, so I've had my say on it.
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MR. ROBERTS-Yes, I wonder where the great civic need for six banks within a half
a mile.
MR. CAlMANO-Thatls what I asked the other night.
MR. HAGAN-That is, basically, I think, that's whatls wrong with the project.
MR. CAlMANO-After much discussion, regarding who can and can't be at the next
regular meeting, the 18th, I move that we change the first regular meeting date
from 7:30, on September 18th, to 7:30 on Thursday, September 20th.
MOTION TO œANGE THE FIJlST REGULAR MEETING DATE FROM 7: 30, ON SEP'lEMBER 18TH,
TO 7:30, SEPTEMBER 20TH, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Peter Cartier:
Duly adopted this 4th day of September, 1990, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier, Mr. Martin, Mr. Roberts
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hagan, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Kupillas
MR. CARTIER-And the only one who this really effects, at this point, is Jim.
MR. CAlMANO-And he said just let him know. I asked him on the way out the door.
MR. ROBERTS-He didn't have a problem with that?
MR. CAlMANO-He didn't have a problem.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Richard Roberts, Chairman
10
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John C. Mannix
Benjamin R. Pratt, Jr.
Joseph M. Walsh
Mark J. Schachner'
John C. Mannix, Jr."
Thomas G. Clements..·
Jeffrey J. Friedland ....
Sandra L. Allen'
Joseph M. Kowalczyk, Jr.·
. AI... Admitted In M...ach....tta
"AI... Admitted N.", Hampohl...
... AI... Admlttfd In DI.trio' or Columbia
.... AIIO Admitted In Conn.cticut
}\lLLER. MANNIX & PRATT, P.c.
ATTORNEYS AND COUNSELORS AT LAW
ONE BROAD STREET PLAZA
P.O. Box 765
GLENS FALLS, NEW YORK 12801
(518) 793-6611
John W. Miller (1908-1968)
Toll Free In N.Y. State
800-421-6166
DICTATED BUT NOT READ
FAX (518) 798-6690
September 4, 1990
Members of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
Queensbury Town Hall
Bay and Haviland Roads
Queensbury, New York 12804
Re: Site Plan Review Application of 73 Quaker
Road Associates - Quaker Plaza
Dear Planning Board Members:
As you know, we represent 73 Quaker Road Associates,
which is the applicant for the proposed commercial center to
be known as Quaker Plaza.
The purpose of this letter is not to describe the merits
of our application, but to discuss the issue of scheduling
and timing of the Board's review of it. As you know, this
application was the subject of prolonged discussion into the
late hours of the night at the Board's regular meeting on
Tuesday, August 28th. 'You will recall that consideration of
the application was adjourned at that time in view of the
lateness of the hour and the fact that, even after almost
two hours of discussion, we still had several issues
remaining. Rather than proceeding literally into the hours
of the morning, the Board offered, and the applicant
accepted, to convene a special meeting for this purpose on
September 17th. The applicant felt that this was a very
fair and reasonable request and consented.
We understand that some difficulty has now arisen with
the September 17th date and that the Board is convening a
special meeting on September 4th to resciridits earlier
ro.
PRISTED ON W RECYCLED PAPER
"
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Members of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
September 4, 1990
Page 2
resolution. We understand that it is now contemplated that
our application will either be considered at the Board's
regular meeting on September 25th or at a special meeting on
September 27th.
The applicant is willing to express its consent to this
delay, subject of course to the understanding that, in what
we hope is the unlikely event that review of the application
is not concluded on that night, then the Board offers its
assurance that we will be permitted to complete this matter
at a regular or special Board meeting in October. The
applicant submits that this is certainly a fair and
reasonable request, as the ability to submit any necessary
additional information in time to be placed on the October
agenda was certainly the key element in our consent to
adjourn the last meeting to September 17th.
The applicant and its representatives have spent many
months planning this project, including meetings with the
Townls planning and zoning staff and Zoning Board of Appeals
and the Warren County Department of Public Works. We
sincerely believe (and we hope that the Town's planning
staff shares this belief) that all of the information
necessary for a favorable decision will be before the Board
at the September meeting. However, in the unlikely event
that additional consideration remains necessary, we submit
that it would be manifestly unfair to force the applicant to
wait until November for further review, when the applicant
consented to an adjournment of the August meeting with the
accompanying Board resolution for a special meeting on
September 17th.
The applicant was certainly prepared to continue as long
as necessary last week and would obviously have had ample
opportunity to prepare supplemental material in time to meet
the deadline for the October meetings. There is no dif-
ference between September 25th and 27th as a practical
matter in terms of the applicant IS ability to make timely
submission for your October meetings. Regardless of which
date the Board decides to consider us on, that opportunity
will have passed.
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Members of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
September 4, 1990
Page 3
I
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We commend the Board for its continued diligence and
patience and thank you again for your consideration.
Very truly yours,
MILLER, MANNIX & PRATT, P.C.
~s~~~~tR.
MJS:K9-4Q
cc: David Klein, P.E.
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