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1990-11-12 '- ...- JOINT MEETING OF THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS AID THE QUEENSBURY PLAIINING BOARD SPECIAL MEETING NOVEMBER lZTH. 1990 INDEX Discussion of the Town Board's Resolution regarding the establishment of the Office of Zoning Admini strator. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. '----- -..../ JOINT PLANNING BOARD/ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING SPECIAL MEETING NOVEMBER 12TH. 1990 7 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT PLANNING BOARD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS PETER CARTIER, ACTING CHAIRMAN CAROL PULVER, SECRETARY NICHOLAS CAIMANO EDWARD LAPOINT JAMES MARTIN CONRAD KUPILLAS THEODORE TURNER, CHAIRMAN SUSAN GOETZ, SECRETARY JOYCE EGGLESTON JEFFREY KELLEY MEMBERS ABSENT PLANNING BOARD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JAMES HAGAN MICHAEL SHEA BRUCE CARR CHARLES SICARD SENIOR PLANNER-LEE A. YORK MR. TURNER-We wi 11 di scuss the Reso 1 ut ion, Number 606, Introduced by Mr. George Kurosaka, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza, in relation to Proposal of the Law Providing for the Administration and Enforcement of the State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code and Related Laws, Codes, Ordinances and Regulations. We're going to talk, exclusively, about this. We're not going to get into any personalities or anything. We're going to talk about the wording, maybe, and this Resolution, and then, if you feel it's in the interest of both Boards to send a committee, maybe to the public hearing, maybe, and address some of the other issues, plus this issue, we should do it at that level. I don't think we should get into that, tonight. We need an establishment of the Zoning Administrator's position, as previously advertised and the Resolution supporting it. MRS. GOETZ-Ted, this is, as you know, just a short version of the whole thing. MR. TURNER-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Right. I mean, it's much longer. MR. TURNER-Does everyone have a copy of it? MR. CARTIER-But that is the only segment that applies to the Zoning Administrator, correct? Is there anything else? MRS. GOETZ-I think, essentially, but I still think it's important that the Board's know that what you have, attached, there, is just a shortened version, that that isn't it, because it's. like, that long. MR. CAIMANO-This, Section 6. you're talking about? MRS. GOETZ-Right. What you've got attached to the announcement of the meeting is not the whole thing, that's a short form, just to save paper, I suppose, not for any particular reason. RON MONTESI, TOWN BOARD MR. MONTESI-The Resolution is, probably, 30 pages long. MR. TURNER-Yes. Well, let's get right to the Section 6, Office of the Zoning Administrator. I guess, one question I had was the wording, in effect, the duties of the Zoning Administrator with an interpretation, and I talked to Mr. Montesi about it, and to Steve Borgos, also. I think that the motion ought to read the same as the title of Zoning Administrator in our Ordinance, and the title of Zoning Administrator, in the Ordinance, is to administer and enforce, take interpretations out. MRS. GOETZ-I agree. MR. CAIMANO-I agree. MR. MARTIN-I notice, here, in the previous resolution, that's how it was worded, then, and I don't know where "interpretation" has been introduced into the wording, here. 1 '---" MR. TURNER-If you look at, well, I don't have the, do you have the.... MRS. PULVER-They use that they use that, twice,as a matter of fact, in the old, administer and enforcing, administer and enforce. They use it twice. MR. TURNER-Yes. I think, in a sense, what they're trying to say, as far as interpretation goes is, she can look at an application and interpret what's required, as far as a variance, or building permit, or whatever, site plan review. I think that's her intent. MRS. PULVER-Then I would like to see that listed. MR. TURNER-My question is, let's just take it out of there, eliminate it, and not let somebody come in and make an issue out of it. MR. CAIMANO-Well. I'd like to go back one further step. Mr. Chairman, and ask a broader question. Actually, a two point broader question, I guess. In the first place, we have an administration, I don't know how they have dealt with you, but we have a Town Board who has leaned on us, quite heavily, to shorten the process that it takes the citizen to get things done, in this case. I can't see that it's goi ng to do anythi ng but lengthen it, because there's goi ng to be some haggl ing, back and forth, but even more important than that is, it looks as if, it appears as if, especially since the Zoning Board, nor the Pl anni ng Board were asked for thei r opi ni on when thi s was started, it appears as if there I s a move to try and short ci rcui t a system that shoul d not be short ci rcuited. That is, we're going to have someone, out there, who reports directly to an elected official, and. because they report directly to an elected official, they're subject to pressures that we are not subject to, because we are not elected officials. We are appointed, and I think that was the, my guess is, that that was the original intent, as it is in most towns, is to keep these kinds of regulative bodies, away from the elective process, and this seems to be a short circuit to that process, and, frankly, I can't see how you can read it any other way, since we weren't asked our opinion of it. We're doing this on our own, and I find that to be very, very dangerous, frankly, and that's a broad interpretation of this thing. MR. MONTESI-Mr. Chairman, I want to, I'd like to, at least, give some background, and not a debatable background, but just background why, as a Town Board member, thi s thi ng is before you and before the public, and, actually, it's a good thing. because some of the comments that Nick has just made are very, very pertinent to trying to resolve this issue. The issue that I saw, as a Town Board member, was that I had two people interpreting, not enforcing, but interpreting. I had two people in my Zoning/ Building Department interpreting the law. One would say one thing to an applicant and the other person would come in, after a days work, and look at what the first person did and say, wait a minute, this is wrong..well, geez. I've already issued this application, wait a minute, we need to, and it became a real embarrassment. not only to me. It became an embarrassment to the Town Planning Board. to the Town Zoning Board, because people were coming before you, up in arms, at, oh, you guys can't get this squared away. We looked at it and said, okay, if everything in place, is there, maybe, what we ought to do, is just have one person looking at that, and, I 100 percent agree. The word, "interpret" is wrong, but that was the word that we used. One person should be interpreting, and I think the big picture is exactly what Nick and some of the Zoning Board of Appeals members have said to me. There is no interpretation. It's black and white. If it passes, it passes, if it doesn't pass, it goes to the Zoning Board of Appeals. I don't have a problem with that. I think the only way that thing has sunk into my mind, is by us forcing an issue and saying, gee, all we need to do is make this a one person job. we won't have that kind of conflict. The public is going to talk about this, at a public hearing. Hopefully, ~ will be coming to their public hearing, or a spokesman from your Boards, to talk about this, but I think the best thing that could happen is that, in my mind, as a Board member, geez, you know, that word is wrong. It's black and white, period. I don't have a problem with slowing down a process or the lack of expediency in certain processes. Certain processes just don't need to go beyond a site plan review. Some of them do. I think I'm hearing what you're saying. I've spoken to many of you. I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I'd like to see this changed. I have one question to ask and the bigger question is, do we need to be paying $29,000 a year for a job that two people need to do. If I'm listening to what you're saying to me correctly, if we have, it's black and white. I have two people. I have a big, big payroll, and, looking at an application, when it comes in, and whether they agree or disagree, I have two people that are very highly paid. Do I need to do that, and thatls the question that I really need to have you answer for me, pretty quickly, because, if 11m wrong. I can save the Town some money, if I'm hearing what you're saying. MRS. PULVER-Well, Ron, can I ask you a question? When you're talking about these two people that are interpreting, are you talking about the Zoning Administrator and the Building and Codes Administrator? MR. MONTESI-Yes. MRS. PULVER-Okay, see, I was under the impression that our Zoning Administrator makes the decision, and reports to the Bui 1 di ng and Code, you know, for her job, reports there, but I never real i zed we've got two people. Do we have two people in every department? 2 '- -...r MR. MONTESI-No, just in that particular department. You see, what happened, when this job was advertised, there was a big question that had to be asked. Lee York's Department was handling this, at times. Dave Hatin was handling it at times, and it was not functioning well both of those department heads came to us and said, we really need someone to look at the Ordinances, when somebody comes in with an application, and tell us if they need a Site Plan Review, if they need a Variance, or if they can just get a Building Permit. That was the, one of the questions that we had, okay, who is this person's boss? Should it be Lee. or should it be Dave? I say Lee and Dave, because those are the two people that, well, actually, I think we felt, and I think you agreed, Lee, that, probably, it fit better with Dave's Department, so that's where it rested. It could have been in Lee's Department, too, and we might still have that confl ict, too. I mean, Lee might have looked at something, one day, and said, oh my God. how could you do that, and say, well, I already did it, and the people got the application. Well, those are the things, and the mistake that's being made no matter who's department you're in, if I hear what you're saying to me is, there is no interpretation. It is black and white, period. MRS. PULVER-Right, that's correct. MRS. YORK-The way the law reads is, any interpretation, Ted, please correct me, why donlt you explain it. Anything that isn't black and white, that cannot be unequivocally determined by reading the paragraph, it goes to the Zoning Board of Appeals, that's the way.. MRS. PULVER-Right. MR. MONTESI-Both Dave and Pat, and those are the two persons, I'll just refer to them, not as personalities, not casting any blame, they happen to be in the jobs. MRS. PULVER-Right. MR. MONTESI-I don't think, fully, understood that. MRS. YORK-Well, I have video tapes on the role of the Zoning Administrator. They have books and... MR. MONTESI-I'm not throwing any blame. I'm just saying, I don't think that's really been laid down, concretely, to them. MRS. PULVER-I agree with you, Ron. I do not think either one of them are doing anything that they do not think that they aren't supposed to do, but I think, now, that with, a few things have come out, and we're aware of interpretations that really shouldn't be, maybe that should be explained to them. MR. MONTESI-Sometimes, you have to hit home and I guess the easiest one that Nick and I talked about, one day, that hit home, and I need to ask you, as reasonable people. A guy comes in, he wants to put a swimming pool sales on Quaker Road. that is not in the Ordinance, no place in there does it say retail sales for pool s, but it does say retail sales for recreational equipment. Now, are you going to interpret that a swimming pool is a recreational, sports equipment? MR. CAIMANO-It's up to them. MRS. PULVER-You're right. It has to go to... MR. MONTESI-I think that kind of a question needs to stop, right there. Somebody has to that Zoning Administrator, it isn't there? Okay, then it automatically goes to the Zoning Board of Appeals. MR. CAIMANO-Just let me make one point, here. MR. MONTESI-And I'm using that as an example because it did happen and that was a very controversial thing. MR. CAIMANO-My point is, though, Ron, if you don't give it to the ZBA, to make an interpretation, that is a seven member board of non-elected people, you put it into, necessarily, into a one person decision, who is now under pressure of an elected official. MR. MONTESI-Okay, and I agree, but what I was trying to say is, okay, so, at that point, that's where we have to say to them, it isn't there. Now, tomorrow night, the Town Board has asked the Zoning Board, or the Building Department, Lee and the Administrator, to come to a meeting and tell us the seven or eight or nine, or ten particular things that they have trouble with, in the Ordinance. In other words, if we're going to address, there's one way to address it, to say it automatically goes to the Zoning Board of Appeals, period. There is no question, but some of those Ordinances, there's something wrong with, and they need to be addressed. so, tomorrow night, we're trying to look at that. We're trying to say, what kind of problems do you have, that come up, every day, or every other day, that we could look at. Once we have those things isolated, I mean, there may be five. There may be ten, then we'd 1 i ke to look at changi ng them and go through the process with the ZBA, Pl anni ng Board, and look at it, but we're going to try and focus, tomorrow night, on some of our problems that these folks deal with, daily, that, sometimes, you and I and the rest of the Boards don't realize. 3 ----' MRS. GOETZ-I have a question, Ron, and I really respect you do have a Planning background, and that's why I'm surprised that George Kurosaka went along with this, too, coming from the Zoning Board, but what you just said, before, are you suggesting that maybe we don't need both the Zoning Administrator, and the Building and Code Enforcement Officer? MR. MONTESI-What I'm suggesting is that, if we're paying $29,000 a year for a person to do the Zoning Board Administrator, and we're paying, $35, $38,000 a year for Building Inspector to oversee that, is that overkill? MRS. GOETZ-It might be overkill. That's a good question. MR. MONTESI-Do we need a Zoning Administrator in the Town? MRS. GOETZ-Yes. MR. MONTESI-Do we need a, for the lack of a better word, do we need a capable clerk, secretary, if you will, that knows how to read an Ordinance. If a person comes in and says, okay, side line, rear line. MR. CARTIER-Well, you've got to back up. I think what you have to do is describe it, in terms of what the job is, and then you have to decide, does this require a full time position, and is the job, is the work necessary, what is the work to be done, first of all, and then, secondly, is it a full time position to do that job? MR. MONTESI-I'm here, tonight, to agree with you, and what you're saying, right now, I need to have a feel, from the Boards, on that issue. MRS. GOETZ-It causing trouble, now, the way it is. MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. CARTIER-What's happening is, we're misinterpreting the word "interpretation", which is a classic illustration. MR. CAIMANO-We got to here, because of that. MR. CARTIER-Right. I want to add something to what Nick said, he was talking about political pressure, too, but the other, there's another part of that, or a Part B, to that, too. It is not necessarily political pressure. It could be pressure from the guy walking in the door, saying, you know, it would help me a whole lot if I didn't have to go through Site Plan and I could save a lot of bucks, here, okay. So, you create a potential for further abuse of the system, here, too, and that's something we have to look for. MR. MONTESI-No question. MR. CAIMANO-And that pressure on the Board, obviously, is spread pressure, and not likely to be capitulated to. I'm not saying..bad person, neither is Peter. It's just the normal, human pressure. MRS. PULVER-Well, you have the Board, too, which, hopefully, is going to make the same interpretation, every time. MR. MONTESI-But if it doesn't get to the Board. MRS. PULVER-Well, that's what I mean. that's why it's,gQ! to go to the Board, and they've got to say, 50 feet means, 50 feet, that's what it means in this Ordinance, is 50 feet, and that's the way it's going to be. MR. MONTESI-Those things never seem to be a big problem. It's the kind of, swimming pools and sports equipment. MRS. PULVER-No, there are... MRS. GOETZ-If this job was changed to what it's proposed to be, in here, if it were to be advertised, a new, would the criteria for the person filling the job be the same? That's a question I have. MR. MONTESI-That's something that I need to get a feel from you. MR. KUPILLAS-Well, I think the criteria would be how much they're willing to pay. If they're going to pay $10 to $29,000, you could advertise the same criteria. If you're going to go to a lesser position, I don't think it would be advertised in the same. 4 -.,./ MRS. GOETZ-And would the job be re-advertised? MR. MONTESI-Well, let me say this. Someone said, a part, maybe, it doesn't need a full time position. MRS. GOETZ-And we should look at it from the applicant's point of view. MR. MONTESI-Well, from that point of view, is there in-house Staff that could do that on a part time basis? MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. MONTESI-Is there a Planner that could take on, when I say a Planner, we have three Planners in our, and what I'm saying is, I'm looking for alternatives..full time. MRS. PULVER-I would suggest that, maybe, give the job a description. Alright, what h she going to do. Shels going to issue permits, and, now, how much time is that going to take. How many, let's look over the last six months and say, how many have come through, in the office. What's happened? Does this really need a full time person, or a part time person. If there's no, she doesn't have to do anymore research, because there's no interpretation, right? She doesn't have to look things up and go through the archives and whatnot, to find cases, alike, that could cut down, considerably, on the amount of time that this person has been spending to do their job, because it's not necessary, because that particular part of the job isn't going to be hers to do, anymore. That will be going back to the hands that it should be in, which is the ZBA. MR. TURNER-She doesn't do it, anyway. MR. CAIMANO-Doesn't do? MR. TURNER-She doesn't do any interpretations. The word "interpretation" is related to what the Ordinance says an applicant has to have to meet the criteria of the application. MRS. GOETZ-We're talking about two separate things, here. Welre talking about commenting on this, or should we do away with the job, as it is, altogether? MR. TURNER-That's why that word should be right out of there. MR. MARTIN-That's a dangerous, interpreting the Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Queensbury, that's a dangerous, dangerous, sentence. MRS. GOETZ-It is dangerous. MRS. PULVER-But what I'm saying is, I think, this is what has been going on and, if this no longer goes on, because it shouldn't, then this could cut down, a lot, on the job. MR. CAIMANO-Well, even more important than that, this whole resolution, then, becomes an issue. MR. MARTIN-I think the other thing that's lead to the wording of this resolution is, I've talked to the Town Attorney about this. and he is of the opinion that the Zoning Administrator does, in fact, have the power of interpretation and that you cannot have an appeal to the Zoning Board of Appeals until the Zoning Officer has given his or her interpretation, that is his understanding of how the law should, you know, we went the rounds about this and that is, I think, why you have this bent to this resolution. MRS. YORK-Maybe the word should be "decision". The Zoning Administrator's "decision" rather than interpretation, because interpretation says that, she can decide what the real intent of the Ordinance, he or she can decide what the real intent of the Ordinance is, that right is vested. only, with the ZBA. MR. MARTIN-The problem we're having is, here, you're walking a fine line between what's interpretation and what is just, simply, her rendering of, you know, her decision. When she renders a decision, she is, in fact, entering a decision based on an interpretation. MR. CAIMANO-Interpretation, right. MR. MARTIN-And I agree with what the Chairman said. You just have to remove any lean towards her interpretation, or you have to change the shift of this. MR. CAIMANO-Well, at your request and at Carol's request, I called, after your meeting, I called down to the State and they told me exactly what you had been told at that meeting, and that is, that the Zoning Administrator, or whatever that job is, or whatever we call it, and that could be any number of terms, should be looking at the Ordinance and saying, okay, there's A, B, C, and D, and you've got Eo I can't make my decision. I can make a decision between A, B, C, and D, but, since E is what you have, and it's not on here, I don't make the decision, that goes to Mr. Turner and his committee, period. 5 -- ...-- MR. MARTIN-It's strictly administerial. MR. KUPILLAS-There are things, though, that has to become interpretive. MR. CAIMANO-Yes, there are. MR. KUPILLAS-That's why I think it's there and why they say it's there, because there are lists of businesses that can be interpreted to fit, and I read them and you can think of three or four things, and I just throw this out for arguments sake, that have to be interpreted. MR. CAIMANO-But then it becomes subjective, Bud, and I think the subjectivity should go with that Board, not to -ª- person. MR. CARTIER-It seems like, in the process, if the Zoning Administrator has the slightest question as to what the interpretation is it goes to the Zoning Board. BETTY MONAHAN, TOWN BOARD MEMBER MRS. MONAHAN-May I make a comment? Having worked on the last two Master Plans, the first ones describing all the workshops for the League of Women Votes and the second being involved, both from the League and then when I was on the Board, those lists were never intended to be all inclusive. They were intended to be illustrative. MR. TURNER-Right, yes. MRS. MONAHAN-And that you must be aware of, because everyone knew that there would be business comes along that nobody ever thought of, and that was a very definite problem. MR. MONTESI-I think that's the danger, when you use lists as illustrated. and I'm not saying that that was wrong, but they can't possibly have everything on them. MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. MONTESI-And when they don't what has happened, here, is somebody has interpreted, instead of saying, that was not here, it goes there. MRS. GOETZ-How about this part, "the Zoning Administrator shall report directly to the Town Board and the Town Supervisor. and shall not be under the jurisdiction of any other Town Department."? I think we should address that. MR. MONTESI-Okay, if you need to, but, I mean, don't forget, if we took the job away from, I mean, follow my train of thought, and I'm not saying it was correct, but what you're trying to do is solve a problem of conflict, if we took that person and said, okay, you're going to be your own boss, geez, that boss has got to report to somebody, couldn't report to Dave, couldn't report to Lee, who would it be? Well, I guess it's got to be the Town Board. I think Nick's comments are well taken, in that area. MRS. GOETZ-They are. MR. MARTIN-And I think we can get some guidance on the State law on that. The Enabling Legislation should give us some guidance as to who the Zoning Administrator should report to. MRS. GOETZ-The State Law didn't address the Zoning Administrator, at least that's what Mr. Dusek said. Is it otherwise? MR. MARTIN-I tell you, I'd be surprised to find that it's not in there. MRS. GOETZ-That's what he said, right in this thing. That would surprise me, too. MR. MONTESI-Well, it really isn't a problem, staying the way it IS staying, or staying under the Planning Board, that isn't a problem as long as everybody understands the ground rules. and that is, there is no interpretation. It immediately goes..... MRS. GOETZ-How about, "the Town Supervisor shall have the power, with the consent of a majority of a majority of the Town Board, to designate a person to act on behalf of Zoning Administrator". I'd have a suggestion. If that did take place and was adopted, the Town Supervisor shall have the power, with the consent of a majority of the Town Board, at a duly constituted meeting, with a formal resolution, not something over the phone, calling up a few people because we all know a lot can be lost in the translation. I think that would be important. MRS. PULVER-I don't like that, at all. Take one person to act. I mean, it could be anybody. 6 ---- -- MR. TURNER-Sue, read the first sentence. I think this relates to. "In the absence of the Zoning Administrator, or in the case of his inability to act", if he were sick or something. MRS. GOETZ-I know. I mean, I think we should add a few words to that. MR. MONTESI-Well, I think what Dave Hatin was saying to us, and what Paul Dusek was addressing, there, was, if I'm on vacation, Pat is here. If Pat's on vacation, I'm here. If Pat isn't here, who's here? MRS. GOETZ-Right. MR. MONTESI-So, and what Paul Dusek said is. okay, if she reports to the Town Board, then the Town Board has to, in her absence of two weeks, appoint someone to handle that job. MR. CAIMANO-What Sue is saying is that, Section D, there, that long and encumbered sentence, is so potentially abusive that it's unbelievable. MRS. GOETZ-It is, in my opinion. So, I'd like to see that changed. MRS. MONAHAN-I think that that's a very sensitive job, just as your Planners and your Building Inspectors are very sensitive, and it should be completely insulated, as much as possible. from any pressure, both, either from the Town Board or the public. MRS. GOETZ-It's been one of the beauties, at least from my experience on the Zoning Board, I have never, ever, felt any political pressure, and Ted, you've been on, how many years? MR. TURNER-A long time. MRS. GOETZ-And itls the truth. MR. TURNER-I've never had any political pressure used in my position. MRS. MONAHAN-I don't think you're acting as a paid employee of the Town. MR. CAIMANO-You and I are not paid employees of the Town. MRS. GOETZ-That's what, I'd agree with your original statement, because it's just too horrible, here, the way it's being proposed. MR. TURNER-Okay, we got down to D. Have you got any, A, B, C, D. Any comment on the A, at the top of the next page, "Director of Building and Code Enforcement"? MR. CAIMANO-The middle of it, "except that the administration". of course this hits at the heart of the matter of the whole thing, anyway, "except that the administration of the Zoning Ordinance shall be vested in the Zoning Administrator as herein provided." That just can't be. MR. MONTESI-Administration. MR. CAIMANO-Oh, the administration, okay. Forget what I said. I misread that. MR. TURNER-C., Zoning Administrator? MRS. PULVER-Interpreting the Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Queensbury, see, that. MR. CARTIER-Where are you? MRS. PULVER-I'm at b. MR. CAIMANO-Second page. MR. TURNER-Again, top of the page, "Interpreting the Zoning Ordinance." Administering. MRS. GOETZ-That's bad. MR. CAIMANO-And make decisions as to the applicability of the Zoning Ordinance. MRS. PULVER-Yes, I don't like that, either, and the next one. MR. CARTIER-Yes, could that just read, decisions regarding, oops. no. That whole section, "And not subject revi ew", has got to go. 7 '---.. --' MRS. PULVER-Decisions regarding the Zoning Ordinance shall be vested with the ZBA, that's the way I think it should be. If there's a decision to be made, they have to go to the ZBA. MR. CAIMANO-Do you see where we're talking about, Number Two, there? MRS. PULVER-Yes. MRS. MONAHAN-Sometimes the people involved did not realize that there was some decisions to be made. I've had, on my Board, some very bad cases. MRS. PULVER-Bad.. MRS. MONAHAN-Either bad decisions, or the fact that they didn't realize the application was not within the confines of what you're allowed to do. MR. CAIMANO-That's unbelievable. MRS. MONAHAN-So, I don't know whether you want to call it a bad decision or lack of decision. MR. TURNER-Do you have a comment, Lee? MRS. YORK-Well, first I was going to back up and just ask Ron and Betty. on Section d., it says, "Keeping appropriate records of interpretations and decisions" and that probably applies to the Zoning Administrator, okay, and then, in another part it says, "The Zoning Administrator shall keep Official records of all transactions of activities of their respective offices, including records of all applications received, all permits and certificates issued, inspections conducted and notices and orders issued." Well, we keep the records for the Board, and I don't know if that's clear, here, that we do, now, keep the Zoning Administrator's decisions where they would relate to anyone coming before the Boards and those kinds of records. The Board's decisions that are, basically, the law, which a person has to develop under, after your decision, and I donlt know if this will, if it's clear, if you want the Zoning Administrator, if there's a new office created, keeping those records, or if you wanted new? MR. MONTESI-No. I'm going to take a guess at this, and I would say that, if you go back to the fact that the word "interpret" is in there, what that might be referring to is, this was the record of .!!!l. interpretation of why I didnlt send it on to the Zoning Board of Appeals. MRS. YORK-Well, it might be a good idea that that's done, anyway, that should be done. MR. MONTESI-And 11m not advocating that. I'm saying that that's, probably, what that record is referring to. MRS. MONAHAN-The word "interpretation" is a very bad word. decision" or "ruling". "Ruling" is not an interpretation. any way. Perhaps, either the word, "as per his It should not be an interpretation, in MR. CARTIER-Well, let's keep the language the same, though. Back, somewhere, at the beginning of this thing, it says, "administering and enforcing". MR. CAIMANO-Right at the very beginning, A., 6A. MR. CARTIER-And maybe that should be, keep records of, keep administrative records of decisions, or something like that. In other words, I'm trying to keep the same language, all the way through. MR. MONTESI-The decision to issue a building permit is easy. When you conform to everything, within our Ordinance, I issue a building permit, and there really is no reason to make a record of that, as a Zoning Administrator. The record has to come in is, you just don't quite make it. I'm not you need a Site Plan. I'm not sure you need a ZBA, in my opinion, so here's my interpretation, why I'm going to give you a building permit, and that's where the record needs to be kept. MRS. MONAHAN-But, Ron, you and I both know that, through the years, building permits have been issued when they should not have been issued, and I'm not just talking about..for many, many years, and these are the things that we're trying to make sure do not keep happening. In some way. you have to get a handle on those type of things. MR. MONTESI-Yes, and I'm not advocating this. I'm just trying to justify where that..came from. MRS. MONAHAN-I'm just trying to throw out some of the problem. MR. CARTIER-It ought to be in terms of why it was sent to the Planning Board or Zoning Board. MR. MONTESI-That's really what the record should be. MR. CARTIER-That's what the record should be. These are the reasons why we did not issue a building permit..Zoning and Planning. A --- -- MR. MONTESI-Then it becomes Lee's job, from that point on. MRS. PULVER-Well, it may sound stupid to be asking this now. but why is the Town doing this? Why are we going to a separate department? I mean, why do we have to have this department? Why do we have to have this whole thing? MR. MONTESI-Well, I prefaced everything, in the beginning, by saying we had that conflict, of two people in one department, one making a decision.... MRS. PULVER-I know, but we can't have her, I don't understand why everything had to be by the two people? MR. MONTESI-Well, it didn't. We had a job. The job was filled by a person. That person was supervised by either Lee York or by Dave Hatin, and the Town got together with those two departments and they felt it would best be suited to do it with Dave. Therefore, that lady is working for Dave, or that person is working for Dave. Now, all of her decisions should be reviewed by, or are subject to final review by Dave. On a day in and day out basis, that doesn't normally happen. MRS. MONAHAN-As a Department head. MRS. PULVER-Okay, the question is, if you're going to have the same department, who's going to review her decisions, now, the Supervisor? MR. MONTESI-Well, that's why we're here. MRS. MONAHAN-I think we have to back up and really answer Carol's question from the perspective of time, too. When the Building Department was formed as a separate department from the Planning Department, what's becoming Building Code and Enforcement. Then, when Building took off so, in this Town, there really wasn't time for the head of the Building Department to make every decision to come along, so it was felt that he could have an assistant, and then he would step in, in some of the ones that coul d be i fy, or when they weren't quite sure, and thi s woul d be somethi ng they woul d hash out between the two of them. That's kind of the background of how this developed. MRS. EGGLESTON- I'd 1 i ke to ask Ron, I know we've all hea rd, thi s comes about through personality conflicts and power pulls and all sorts of things. Isn't there a way to resolve that, within defined descriptions of jobs, rather than fool around with the legalities of Town Law and, why does that have to be the answer? Why can't it, the situation be corrected within your departments and have, defined, this is what you do and this is what you do? MR. MONTESI- I think some of the di a 1 ogue that's comi ng out of both of your, the ZBA and the Pl anni ng Board talking about this, because it's proposed in a public hearing, is excellent. I mean, some of the answers are coming up and, so much so that. now, what I'm saying to you is, what I'm asking is, I think I probably can work this out, very, very simply, within my own department, by saying, there is nothing to interpret, bingo. The number thing is, it's either black or white, and that's the name of the game. Now, my question is, if you got me thinking that way. and I'm think positively about this, without changing a lot of things, is that job worth $29,000 a year? I mean, that's what's bothering me, now, more than anything. MRS. EGGLESTON-You can change all of the rules, Ron, and reading and whatnot, but if you don't change what's in the departments and everybody know what their job is and where they're coming from, you haven't accomplished anything. MR. MONTES 1- I don't have to change any rul es. A 11 I have to say is, it's the Zoning Admi ni strator' s decision. MR. CAIMANO-I think what Mrs. E is talking about, here, and I hate to say this, is that there appears to be, a lack of managerial leadership, somewhere on top. MR. MONTESI-Yes, simply because of that one word, "interpret". MR. CARTIER-Joyce, I think, to answer your question, partly, is, I think, this was an attempt to do what you're suggesting. MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. CARTIER-And what we're saying, here, is..... MR. CAIMANO-It's the wrong attempt. MRS. EGGLESTON-You can do it, without changing the basic fundamentals. MR. CAIMANO-Right, if somebody had managed. 9 '--' ..-' MRS. PULVER-And I think if Ron does, if he say, okay, now, there'll be no more interpretation coming out of the Zoning Administrator's Office, now, all she has to do. or he, is to issue permits, etc. Is that a full time job, or is that a part time job? I don't know. I can't make that answer. MR. CAIMANO-But can we back this whole thing up, now? Can we stop all this, now, and go back to square one? We can't. MR. TURNER-We've got to hold a public hearing. MR. MONTESI-Yes, we have a public hearing that's coming forth. We need to have the input. At the public hearing, the Town Board can then say, okay, listen, we took in all of the information and, pretty much, we're going to need to have some of the comments. Nick, that you said so eloquently, that that's, you know, what your concerns are, as a member of the Planning Board and a member of the ZBA, and whatever, and that's what we need to be able to say at that, and then it becomes a dead issue. Then we'll have to resolve it, internally, which I think we can do. MR. CARTIER-I think Jim was the one who used the term "traffic cop". I think that's the phrase you used, and I think that's a perfect description of that job. The cop is directing traffic. He's not interpreting whether somebody's got to stop at the stop sign or not. It's strictly, this goes here. This goes there, and that's it. and I think. for me, if that's the way that job was operated on, I wouldn't have any problems. MR. MONTESI-We need one more thing. We need to be able to, al so, in dealing with trying to convince our Town Attorney, now, too, that there is no interpretive measures necessary, in that job. MR. CARTIER-Why do we have to convince the Town Attorney? MR. CAIMANO-Have the Town Attorney call the State of New York. MRS. MONAHAN-I think that's a ruling the Town Board can make. MR. MONTESI-Yes, but what I'm saying is, as you pointed out, the Town Attorney has said to you, well, that's an interpretive job. MRS. GOETZ-He can say whatever he wants to say. We've gone against things that have been said. I think, if you're going to have the guts and really be thinkers, you've got to think it through, yourself, not that you don't listen to what the Town Attorney says, but..... MR. KUPILLAS-You're saying. if this resolution goes through. as it is, Paul Dusek is saying that it has to have interpretation in it. MR. MONTESI-Well, I mean, that's the basis of what, he's saying the job has interpretive powers and, obviously, I donlt feel that way. The Board's don't feel that way. MR. CARTIER-It may have interpretive power. What I'm hearing from these two Boards is, we don't want it to. MRS. MONAHAN-Well, it depends on how you're using the word "interpret". If he's using it very broadly, if shels looking at it, or he or she is looking at a plan and says, yes, this house is 10 feet from the side line, I suppose that could be an interpretation. I'd call it a ruling or a decision. MR. CARTIER-But, Betty, when you go back to look at this thing, interpretation's not being subject to review, that, to me, strengthens the interpretation of the word, to mean interpretation. MR. MARTIN-There seems to be a definite bent in the way this is written. MR. CARTIER-Right, absolutely. MR. MARTIN-I mean, there's a definite character about this. MRS. GOETZ-Definitely. And, also, when I went to the original resolution, creating the job of Zoning Administrator, it came right from the Town Attorney. There does not seem to be anything, under State Law, concerning Zoning Administrators. So, how could he say that they have interpretive powers, if it doesn't address them in the first place? MR. CARTIER-Because, as I understand it, if the Local Ordinance wants it to be interpretive, it can be. MR. MARTIN-Yes. I think what he's saying is, they're not required. It's a local call as to whether they want..or not. 10 '-' -..-/ MRS. PULVER-But what about the Local Ordinance. MR. MONTESI-This is it. MR. CARTIER-This is it. This is what we're looking at. MRS. PULVER-I mean, there was nothing in it, prior to this? MR. MARTIN-No, this gave the position some responsibilities. MRS. PULVER-That's why I was under the impression that it was. I had a conversation with Paul Dusek..in our Ordinance that she has interpretive powers. MRS. MONAHAN-There is a portion of the Ordinance that.... MR. TURNER-Article 12, Section 12.010. Zoning Administrator, Administrative Decisions. MRS. GOETZ-What page is that on? MR. TURNER-Page 103. MR. MONTESI-Don It forget, now,she works for Dave, so what you might have to say is, is the final decision vested, now, without the change, is the final decision vested in Dave Hatin's job, and what does it say for Dave Hatin's job? MR. MARTIN-This is very short and to the point. "The Zoning Administrator shall have the power and duty to administer and enforce the provisions of this Ordinance, period. MR. CAIMANO-There's nothing wrong with that, at all. MR. TURNER-Nothing wrong with that, at all. MRS. GOETZ-That's right. MR. CAIMANO-This paragraph, to me anyway, is there anything wrong with that paragraph? Nothing. MR. CARTIER-An appeal from an action, omission or decision or rule by him, regarding a requirement may be made only to the Zoning Board of Appeals. MR. CAIMANO-And that's the way it should be. MR. CARTIER-That's the way it should be. MR. CAIMANO-And how tough is that? MR. MONTESI-Easy. MRS. GOETZ-Ron, are you saying that if Paul Dusek told you that the Zoning Administrator had the right to interpret, that you would take his proclamation? MR. MONTESI-No. What Paul said and has a feeling that he could put into that Ordinance that that job .li. interpretive. Obviously, he has, because that's what the Ordinance says. and the justification for it was, it didn't say you couldn't, on a State level. So, there it is. MR. MARTIN-I think the fine point, that what Paul is talking about is that he's saying that, in order for there to be an appeal, there has to be an interpretation given by the Zoning Administrator, in order, you know, some basis for the appeal and the point I was trying to make with him was that, the decision of the Zoning Administrator, alone, is enough basis for an appeal. I hate to use this word, but it.li. an interpretation. I mean, it's a decision. MR. TURNER-It's a choice of words. MR. CAIMANO-Thatls right. So, it's automatically, and you made that point, before. and it's a very good point. It's automatically appealable. MRS. MONAHAN-But don't broaden that by putting the word interpretation in there. MR. CAIMANO-I mean, if the Administrator came to you, and you're a business owner, your business, let's say, and made a strict decision on the Ordinance, you mean, because she made a decision, or whoever it was, you wouldn't go appeal to the ZBA? Nonsense, of course, you would. MRS. PULVER-But I think, Nick, that needs to be defined to the Administrator, what decisions she would be allowed to make and when a decision becomes an interpretation. 11 - -- MR. CAIMANO-Well, I'll tell you, that paragraph in there. MRS. PULVER-I know, but I think there's a miscommunication, here. MR. CAIMANO-I agree. MRS. PULVER-I don't think that anybody is doing anything that they don't think they shouldn't be doing. MR. CAIMANO-Except somehow, and I agree with you, except, somehow, you made the point. There's a case being made, here, for something. I mean, here's four, five six, pages, for what? MR. KUPILLAS-A case is being made in reverse, though, from what youlre saying. If nobody has a problem with that, as a public citizen, that you're right of appeal is based on interpretation of the Zoning Administrator. I think our fear, and, on behalf of our Town that we live in, is the fact of the reverse. If you interpret that, okay, you can put your swimming pool place here, that that's where we have no. MR. CAIMANO-Thatls right, and I have a real fear of this paragraph, here, which says that this person's interpretations and decisions are final. Nobody gets to review. MRS. MONAHAN-But there is a place. beyond that, that says that they can be appealed to the ZBA, in..area. I don't like that paragraph, don't misunderstand me. MR. MONTESI-If you didn't have to go for a Site Plan, you'd never appeal it. The guys that would be appealing would be the Zoning Board of Appeals saying, hey, how come you're not coming in front of us? MR. CAIMANO-Bud is right, and your right. It's the reverse that we're worried about. MR. CARTIER-I think what we have to do, here, is ask for deletion of things from this proposal and additions and I think what I'm hearing is the additions that need to be, additions,.... MRS. PULVER-Peter. why can't we just ask for the whole thing to be.... MR. CAIMANO-Right, start with that paragraph. MR. MONTESI-This whole thing is, maybe, a moot question. MR. CARTIER-No, let me finish what I'm saying. We're in this because we have this hassle about who interprets what and I think, if we want to, we want to say no to something, but we also want to say, yes, to, how do we go about getting this issue cleaned up... MR. TURNER-Yes, but I think our position should be, this has already been published for public hearing. The thing to do is go and argue our case in front of the Town Board. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MR. TURNER-That we don't need this. Let them resolve the issue. They can table the vote on it. They don't have to vote on it. MR. MONTESI-No, we don't. We just take the information. MR. TURNER-They can take the information. They can deal with it. MR. MONTESI-Re-work it. MR. TURNER-Re-work it. Do a new one. MR. MONTESI-May not even need a new one. MRS. MONAHAN-I'm not sure that you need a new one. I don't see anything wrong with the..what it needs to be is policy procedure for how that job is done, and that's what this Town does not have, is policy procedures for any department or job, that I've been... MRS. GOETZ-I'm really interested in your thoughts about, that it might not be needed. MR. TURNER-Legally, I don't know if you could vote on this, because this goes contrary to what the Zoning Administrator's description is, in the Ordinance. MR. CAIMANO-That's a good point. MRS. MONAHAN-Don't look at me. I didn't vote for this thing to come to a public hearing. I was the one "no" vote. 12 -, --' MR. TURNER-No, but I'm saying, it doesn't follow the Zoning Ordinance, what's in the Zoning Ordinance, Article 12, Section 4.010. MRS. MONAHAN-Probably, he's got a repealer in there. Has he got a repealer in there? MRS. GOETZ-I don't have that page. I didn't get a full copy. MRS. MONAHAN-I know you didn't. I was aware of that when I saw that it came to the Zoning Board and the Planning Board. MR. CAIMANO-Let's just look at the practicality of this, Ted. MRS. PULVER-I was told that the Town had a description on the Zoning Administrator's job, but I haven't seen it. MR. MARTIN-You can get a description, also, from a labor department or something like that, or Civil Service, typically, has descriptions for all these. MR. CAIMANO-It's nice that you said what you said, about going and being at the hearing and all that, but the practicality of it is this. We have to do something, it seems to me, relatively dramatic, like a resolution or whatever. Going and arguing our case is not good enough, and it's not good enough because, as Mrs. Monahan just poi nted out, no reflecti on on you, but in thi s vote. here, she's the only "nay". My assumption is that we may be able to sway Mr. Montesi to be a "nay", but that doesn't mean that the Town Board can't adopt this, by a 3 to 2 vote. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CAIMANO-So, I thi nk that just goi ng there and maki ng our case is not strong enough. I woul d encourage us both to consider a joint resolution and that resolution should be, not only condemning this as being an act of some maniac, but getting on to something that's real. MR. CARTIER-No, they have to live in the Town of Queensbury. MR. CAIMANO-Yes, but I think we should start with the Ordinance, as you present it, Mr. Chairman, and that's the fact that this may be in violation of what we already have, and let's start with that Ordinance and, as far as we're concerned, all you need to do is to spell out a job description, or spell out those specific things that should be attached to what we already have in the Ordinance, but I don't think we should leave it to chance, by showing up with four or five or eight or nine people, and making a speech. MRS. EGGLESTON-Because, once they do that, we can't rescind it, anyway. MR. CAIMANO-It's done. MRS. EGGLESTON-It's done. MR. KELLEY-And we've got to spend all these hours, allover again. So, make it clean and simple. MRS. MONAHAN-Excuse me, where is, in that book that you just gave me, is Section 6 supposed to fit in? Does anybody know? MRS. PULVER-We could give them the minutes to this meeting, as well. MRS. YORK-Betty, that's a local law, okay. MRS. MONAHAN-So, it isn't supposed to fit into that Ordinance that we have. MRS. YORK-No, it's not. It's not a part of the Zoning Ordinance. The local law is standing on its own. MRS. MONAHAN-Okay, but it's in conflict with the Zoning Ordinance, then. MR. MONTESI-Yes. MRS.MONAHAN-So, as usual, when we got codified, we found a whole mess of things that were in conflict with each other, and now we're doing it allover again. If we just paid some firm to tell us how many we were in conflict with ourselves. Does that make sense? MRS. PULVER-Yes, that makes perfect sense. MR. TURNER-No, I'm not against a resolution. I think we should have a resolution. 13 -...." MRS. GOETZ-We should, yes. MR. LAPOINT-On the order of a job description for all these items in question. MR. MARTIN-I think that first sentence in the Ordinance covers it just beautifully. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, because I don't think we should be setting up the job descriptions. MR. TURNER-No, that's the Town's job, that's not our job. MRS. YORK-And there's also a definition of Zoning Administrator in here. MRS. GOETZ-We also should be calling our Town Board members, individually, because we feel it's serious. MR. MONTESI-I would say, if the Board, when we were presented with this conflict of conflicting views and a public is saying, my God, somebody's saying yes, somebody's saying no, and there is an embarrassment, to some degree. When we were presented with that, we looked at, well, how can we solve that. Well. obviously, if you have one person making that decision, that was how this came out, right or wrong, that's how that came out. Now, if the rest of the Board was privy to some of the comments that Nick has made, that Mrs. Monahan has made, that Carol has made, and all of you have made, I think there would have been a different opinion about it, and the problem would have been solved a lot easier, because the one thing that kept coming up in our decisions, and Betty was privy to that, was, interpreting, that word. I can't tell you how long, we spent four hours, one day, interpreting something, and that was, people were reading it directly opposite. Our Town Attorney, or our Assistant Town Attorney read it one way, and the Code Enforcement Officer read it the other and I said, gee, you know. I don It even know what it reads, but they were reading it, opposite. One was saying yes, one was saying no, and there's something wrong there, and that's what, tomorrow night, welre going to try and solve some of those small problems. MR. CAIMANO-One is tempted to ask, however. two questions. A. Why didn't the person who was the boss, simply say, this is the person who's going to make the decision, that's Number One, and, Number Two, if you're in that quandary, why didn't you go to Mr. Turner, or Mr. Cartier, or Mr. Roberts, and ask them what they thought? MR. MONTESI-Okay, the person that was making decisions wasn't reviewing every single Building Permit or every single application. So. it might be two or three days later that he or she looked at that and said, oh, I have a difference of opinion. I have a different interpretation, so stop the process. That's where the danger came in. That's where we saw a problem. MRS. GOETZ-Ron, why wasn't the Planning Board and the Zoning Board told that that resolution was made, at the Town Board level, for a public hearing? MR. MONTESI-That I can't answer. How quickly did that happen, Betty? Two or three weeks? MRS. GOETZ-What's the date? MRS. MONAHAN-I don't know. Frankly, I was surprised when I got that resolution because I had no idea it was going on that fast, and I think, frankly, if I may say something, that some of the things that happened, that were questioned, had the Town Board talked to the individuals that were involved in the decisions, they would have seen why the decisions were made, and why they were re-made, and I think that was a process that should have gone through, that did not go through. I did go to the individuals and find out the background for some of those things. MRS. GOETZ-What did you want to expand on? MR. CARTIER-Just, in terms of what Sue was saying. I hope that the two members of the Town Board that are here, will take to heart the idea that we would like, in the future, when one of these things comes down the pike, that we get to respond, before we get into this feeling of, gee, something's going on here and we better get together, real fast, and take a look at it. MRS. MONAHAN-Peter, I have, for years, now, said, that there needs to be one person, in Town Government, responsible for sending communications to the Departments or Boards involved. Lee will tell you how many times I've come to her, to Dave Hatin, to the Recreation Department, and say, this involves one of your departments. Are you aware of this coming in? I've taken it upon myself to see, and found out they have never been aware of it, and I don't know why. I keep screaming about this, when we have things come in front of us. Ron will tell you, at Town Board, I always try to remember to ask, has this gone to the proper department? I think departments should comment on a lot of things, before it ever comes to us, or your Board shoul d and then, once we get all your background, is when it shoul d come in our laps, and I find this step is not being done, maybe being done a little bit more, but now, here, obviously, was one great big gap where it should have been done. I mean, we should have found out if there was a problem. 14 -- MR. CARTIER-This is way beyond the scope of this particular meeting, but, at some point, I think it's a very valid thing that you're saying. At some point, that needs to be taken care of. MRS. MONAHAN-Well, I made a suggestion, years ago, the person that I thought ought to take this, that's privy to everything going on in this Town, that I thought should have the responsibility of advising all the different departments and all the different Boards. MR. CAIMANO-Well, if we adopt this, Betty, it'll be the Zoning Administrator's job. MR. MONTESI-Jim just pointed something out to me, about "All You Wanted to Know About Zoning", and they make a finite distinction between a guy accepting or not getting an application, because he wanted to put a motel up and the Administrator thought it was a hotel, or. in his decision, said it was a hotel, so he had the right of appeal, but, in most cases, this book tells you the things that people can appeal, and we're fighting directly opposite, as Bud says. We're looking at, we may never get a chance to appeal, because it slides through, nice and easy. and that's the fear and concern that everybody, here, has and I understand that and I hear that and I can see the error of that word "interpret" and the power vested in that. MRS. GOETZ-Can you see the error of the whole thing? MR. MONTESI-Yes. MRS. GOETZ-Good. MR. MONTESI-But it took, somebody had to put paper to pencil, pencil to paper. MRS. MONAHAN-No, they didn't. MR. CAIMANO-No, they didn't. If they followed Mrs. Monahan's suggestions and you had done the, and this whole process had worked properly, and whoever is the boss of the Town had bothered to talk to the Department heads, we would not be here, today. We would not be here and, believe me, it's still a scary proposition, because we could lose this thing, three to two, and then what would do we do? MR. TURNER-Okay, anyone else? MR. KELLEY-Are you going to write a resolution? MRS. GOETZ-Jeffrey makes great ones. MR. TURNER-Peter, do you have one? MR. CARTIER-I took the liberty, Saturday, to anticipate your thoughts and feelings and this is strictly a rough draft and how do you want to do this? Do you want to go through the whole thing, and then go back and pick it apart, item by item? MR. CAIMANO-How many pages is it? MR. CARTIER-Six. MRS. MONAHAN-Peter, I don't know what you've written, but if you're against the whole premise, do you even want to bother to take this resolution apart? MR. CARTIER-Well, I think we need to be specific, as to what we don It like. MRS. MONAHAN-But you may end up getting another resolution, just trying to take that into consideration, but still get another resolution. MR. CAIMANO-Well, let's see what he has to say. MR. CARTIER-If I'm a Town Board member, getting a resolution from another Board, saying we don't like this, junk the whole thing, the first thing that's going to come into my head is, why don't they want to. . . MRS. MONAHAN-Okay, if you're that emphatic, rather than saying, well, Section A. ought to read such and such, and so on and so forth, then you're going to have another one come back at you. MR. MONTESI-I think you can close this resolution, whatever it says, by saying that it might be your recommendation to keep things the way they are. and.... MRS. MONAHAN-I would start off with, put your strongest point, first, what you're trying to achieve. 15 -- -' MR. CARTIER-I was going to have, seeing that this is written in pencil, and I have two erasers, here. MRS. GOETZ-Make it strong in the beginning, Peter. MRS. EGGLESTON-Sometimes, you get so involved, though, that you really make it worse than what it is, right now. MR. CAIMANO-Well, let's hear what he has to say, then we'll criticize it. MR. MARTIN-I agree. MR. CARTIER-Okay, Resolution In Reference to Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board Concerns Regarding the Queensbury Town Board Proposal to Make Changes in the Duties of Position of Zoning Administrator, Know As, "A Local Law Providing for the Administration and Enforcement of The State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code and Related Laws, Codes, Ordinances, and Regulations." Whereas, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways and Whereas, a system of internal checks and balances need to be built into said procedure and Whereas, assigning the position of Zoning Administrator sole power of i nterpretati on wi thout benefi t of appeal by other Town Departments, Offi ci a 1 s, and Employees. of the Town of Queensbury, severely restricts said checks and balances and Whereas the members of the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board object to the proposed wording of Section 6A., 6B, 7Clb. and Section 7C2. of the Proposed Local Law, giving a position of Zoning Administrator that power of interpretation as listed above, Now. Therefore, Be it, Resolved: That the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board hereby strongly recommend to the Town Board that said Proposed Law be revised to omit.... MRS. GOETZ- I don't 1 i ke, "revi sed". MR. CARTIER-Okay, let me go through the whole thing, before you pick it apart. Section 6A., 6B, 7Clb, and 7C2. A written and/or revised said Sections in such a way as to provide a procedure by which Town Departments. Officials, employees, and/or individuals may appeal any action, omission, decision, or ruling, made by the position of Building Administrator, and Be It Further Resolved: That the proposed Local Law be admitted in such a way as to empower the Zoning Board of Appeals with sole powers of interpretation of the said Ordinances. MR. CAIMANO-I think if you start with the way Sue and Betty Monahan talked about and that's with your strongest point first (TAPE TURNED) I'll just say it and put it in legalese. There's nothing wrong with the current Ordinance, current description of Zoning Administrator that a little fixing won't do, and end up wi th, therefore, jump thi s, and come back with somethi ng that just strengthens what we have. Basically, that's what I wanted to say. I think that's sufficient. By saying what you're saying, it appears that we want to change, we agree with what they're doing, and all I want to do is tinker with it. That's not what I say, at all. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MR. MONTESI-I think that's important. MRS. MONAHAN-Pete, have you got the long or the short version? MRS. YORK-We've all got the short. MR. TURNER-Short. MRS. MONAHAN-Because the word Zoning Administrator is added to many, many Sections of the, in other words, you don't even have all the places that the Zoning Administrator's put into it. MR. CAIMANO-It's 30 pages. MR. CARTIER-Let's back up. Any problems with the WHEREAS's? MR. MARTIN-I think we also should make that best point first, and then, in another resolve, say that we want to be included prior ~ any resolution regarding this matter. something to that effect. MRS. GOETZ-I hope we never see another resolution regarding this matter. MRS. MONAHAN-My feeling is, if it isn't broke, why fix it? I think what welve done is..... MRS. EGGLESTON-Fine. MRS. MONAHAN-Yes, like Joyce says, policy and procedures for the department. MR. MARTIN-The Ordinance deals with this perfectly fine. 16 --- -- MRS. EGGLESTON-I think..on what we have and leave it the way it was and let them take care of things, internally, within their department. MR. CAIMANO-What's the number of that Ordinance, the one about the Zoning Administrator? MR. TURNER-Article 12. MR. CAIMANO-Something like, WHEREAS, Article 12, Page whatever, Number so and so, regarding the description of Zoning Administrator appears to be, and, WHEREAS, the following.... MR. CARTIER-Wait a minute. Take me from "Strongly recommends". Now, Therefore, Be It, Resolved, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Planning Board strongly recommends that the position of Zoning Administrator, as stated in Article 12, presently... MR. CAIMANO~Remain the same, remain as is, whatever. MR. MARTIN-That the duties of the Zoning Administrator. MR. CAIMANO-The duties. MR. CARTIER-The duties of the Zoning Administrator, as defined in the current Ordinance. MR. CAIMANO-Yes. MR. TURNER-As defined in Section 12, by the Zoning Administrator. MR. CAIMANO-Whatever the numbers are, write them in there. MR. CARTIER-As defined in Article 12. MR. TURNER-Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator. MR. CARTIER-12.01O. Now Therefore, Be It, Resolved, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Planning Board strongly recommend that the duties of the Zoning Administrator, as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained, as written, will that do it? MRS. GOETZ-In the Zoning Ordinance. MR. CARTIER-Currently written. MR. MONTESI-Now, what if that became a part time job? MR. TURNER-The same thing. MRS. GOETZ-The same thing. MR. CAIMANO-What's the difference? MR. KUPILLAS-Well, that's a management decision. MR. CAIMANO-Yes, that's a management decision. MR. MONTESI-Alright. MRS. PULVER-I think we need to go back for, like, the last six months, and see what's gone on, what she's done. MR. CAIMANO-What else do we want to add to this thing? Do we want to talk about... MRS. MONAHAN-Can we hear about your revised..what you now have in the motion? MR. CAIMANO-Yes, what do you have, so far? MR. CARTIER-The only change, so far, is in the resolution, junk what I had. Now, Therefore, Be It, Resolved, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator, as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained as currently written. MRS. EGGLESTON-And no new resolution is needed, by the Town Board. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, we've got to spell that out. 17 '- ~ MR. CAIMANO-I think that's how we end it, and Be It Further Resolved that this... MR. MARTIN-As defined. MR. CAIMANO-Right, is needed. MR. CARTIER-Strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator, Article 12, Section 12.010, be retained as currently written. MR. MARTIN-Yes. that would be it. MR. CAIMANO-If it's managed properly. I've got a thought, here. I just want to put it down. And Be It Further Resolved, and put anything el se between here, but, the end of it should be something to the effect that if the current Administrator is, I don't know how to put this, managed properly I guess is what I really want to say, the duties of it are managed properly, then, as Joyce says, that no further, this resolution, that's currently before the Board, is not needed. I don't know how you want to say that. MRS. MONAHAN-I've got another feeling from you people and I think, maybe, if the feeling I got is true, you might want to put that in. If you feel, under this Ordinance, it would be subject both to political manipulations and pressure by people walking in the street. MR. CAIMANO-Absolutely. MRS. MONAHAN-And I think you should put that in there. MR. MONTESI-Those two points that you made were very strong and viable points, for two reasons. Number One, no political pressure, and I think the third thing is, the final say is not subject to anybody's input. MR. CAIMANO-There you go. MR. MONTESI-One of the points you made..was very worthwhile. You're talking about a management concept. A management concept is that someone needs to talk to the existing job description and say, there is no interpretation, that's the crux of this whole thing we're talking about. It all started because of the word interpretation. MR. MARTIN-Interpretation. MR. CAIMANO-That's part of the resolve. Resolve that the Zoning Administrator, in that, does not have any powers of interpretation. MRS. MONAHAN-Does not interpret. MRS. PULVER-Well, I think, Ron, couldn't you sit down with Dave Hatin and discuss this with Dave, and so forth, and then it would be up to Dave to... MR. MONTESI-The Town Board would. What I'm trying to say is that, in this resolve, we're trying to solve a problem that's solvable with the elimination of that word, interpretation. MRS. MONAHAN-But interpretation is never in our original duties. MR. MONTESI-No, but it is in the new one. MRS. MONAHAN-Well, I know. MR. CAIMANO-One of the WHEREAS's should be, WHEREAS. the job of Zoning Administrator, under the proposed resolution, would be subject, might be subject. to political pressures. MR. KUPILLAS-Well, it does away with the system of checks and balances that are necessary... MR. CARTIER-Right, okay. Well, I've got something like that, here. MR. KUPILLAS-Which we ought to put in there, because that's what this system's all about. MR. CARTIER-Let me back up, let's go back to this. Any problem with this? WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways. Any problem with that? MR. MARTIN-That's good. 18 --' MR. CARTIER-And WHEREAS. maybe we can add it to this, a system of internal checks and balances need to be built in to said procedure, so that... MR. CAIMANO-To avoid political or business pressures. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MRS. EGGLESTON-And making the job..political. MR. CAIMANO-Sure. MR. MARTIN-My only problem with that is, you say, needs ~ ~ built.i!!... I think they already exist. Why don't we say needs to be maintained, as currently exists, needs to be maintained. MR. KUPILLAS-You've got to get in there, Peter, I think, that the proposed law circumvents that system of checks and balances, that we already have. MR. MARTIN-As currently exists, needs to be maintained. MR. CAIMANO-That's right. MR. CARTIER-To prevent inappropriate... MR. CAIMANO-Or potential. MR. MARTIN-Potential and appropriate. MR. CARTIER-Potential and appropriate. MR. CARTIER-Potential and appropriate political, and/or..... MR. CAIMANO-Financial. MR. CARTIER-You mean there are appropriate financial pressures? Let's be careful how we word this. MR. CAIMANO-Special interest. Next to this should be, and WHEREAS, the resolution, as proposed. MR. CARTIER-Are we done with that? MR. CAIMANO-Yes, but this has to go tail, with that, WHEREAS, the resolution, as proposed, eliminates the checks and balances. MR. KELLEY-And then also put in, interpretive powers, in the Zoning Administrator's, you know what I'm getting at? MR. CAIMANO-Yes. MR. CARTIER-And WHEREAS, the resolution as proposed eliminates said internal checks and balances by vesting sole power. of interpretation in the position. MR. CAIMANO-Yes, there you go. MR. MARTIN-By vesting sole power of... MRS. EGGLESTON-Interpretation. MR. CAIMANO-Any decisions. MR. CARTIER-I don't have to put the word "sole" there. MR. MONTESI-That's what's in the resolution. MR. CARTIER-It says "sole" power? MR. CAIMANO-Number Two says. that they have.... MR. CARTIER-Said internal checks and balances, by vesting power of interpretation in, I lost something. Somebody else said something. I know, Zoning Administrator, by eliminating review by any of the Town Departments,..., right? MR. CAIMANO-By, what's the word I'm looking for, by investing too much power in a single individual. 19 -- MR. MARTIN-I don't know if you have to repeat all that because, in another place, they take it back. MR. MONTESI-They take it back. MR. MONTESI-This is the full text of the proposal. MR. CARTIER-Okay, anymore WHEREAS's? MR. CAIMANO-There is one, I don't know how you want to put it. It, basically, hits at the heart of the matter. And, WHEREAS, this resolution would not be necessary, if it was managed properly. MR. CARTIER-Alright, do you want something, well that's a resolution, too. MR. KUPILLAS-Is it possible. at the end of this, make that recommendation, that we table this. MR. MARTIN-We're going to read this right into the record of this meeting, right? MR. CARTIER-We're going to resolve that, that'll be a resolution. MR. KUPILLAS-Yes,..table it and if they wish to continue the discussion. MR. MARTIN-We should, maybe, say that in our wording, not table, but, what you said there. Specifically say, not table, not revise, not edit, but just.... MR. CARTIER-The Town Board resolution, as proposed, be what? What do you want them to do with it? MR. KUPILLAS-Vote it down. MR. CAIMANO-Yes. MR. CARTIER-Well, that's the resolution to hold the public hearing. Is that the same thing? MR. CAIMANO-Yes. MR. CARTIER-So, that would be the resolution? Resolution, or can we define it as regarding the change in the Zoning Administrator? Just re-word it. MR. MARTIN-They know what you're talking about. MR. TURNER-They know what you're talking about. MR. CARTIER-They know what you're talking about, okay. As proposed, be voted down. MR. MARTIN-Yes, that's direct and to the point. MR. CARTIER-Are you ready? Okay, this part, we haven't changed, so, see if you want to change this. Resolution in reference to the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Planning Board concerns regarding the Queensbury Town Board proposal to make changes in the duties of position of Zoning Administrator, known as "A Local Law, blah, blah, blah. WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways. MR. CAIMANO-Fine. MR. CARTIER-And WHEREAS, the system of checks and balances, as currently exists, need to be maintained to prevent potential and inappropriate and/or special interest pressures. Well. wait a minute. That's not true, because that's why we have the problem and we're all sitting here, tonight. MRS. MONAHAN-Why don't you put that a double thing. Read that again, Pete. MR. CARTIER-And, WHEREAS, the system of checks and balances, as currently exists, need to be maintained. MRS. MONAHAN-And WHEREAS. the job, herein described, needs to be insulated from. MR. CAIMANO-Or something like that. MR. MARTIN-That sounds pretty good. MRS. MONAHAN-Yes. You've got to make two WHEREAS's, in there. MR. CAIMANO-Alright, that's what's happening. 20 -- .- MR. CARTIER-And, WHEREAS, the position of.... MR. MARTIN-Zoning Administrator. MR. CARTIER-Zoning Administrator. MR. CAIMANO-Should be insulated from.... MR. CARTIER-Needs to be insulated from... MR. CAIMANO-From those types of pressures. MR. CARTIER-Needs to be insulated from inappropriate, do we need the word "inappropriate"? MR. CAIMANO-No. MRS. MONAHAN-No. lid take it right out. It's redundant. MR. CARTIER-Because that suggests that there is appropriate. MRS. MONAHAN-Yes. MR. CAIMANO-That suggests that it's there. MR. TURNER-Yes. MR. CARTIER-From political and/or special interest pressures. MR. MARTIN-Yes, that's fine. MR. CARTIER-And, WHEREAS, the resolution as proposed, the Town Board resolution as proposed, okay, because I want to be sure that they know we're not tal king about our own. The Town Board resol ution as proposed el iminates said internal checks and balances by vesting power of interpretation in the position of Zoning Administrator.... MRS. MONAHAN-Excuse me. I don't think you want resolution. I think you want, is this an Ordinance? MRS. YORK-Yes, it's a local law. MR. CAIMANO-Local law. instead of Ordinance. MRS. MONAHAN-That the changes to the local law. proposed. MR. CAIMANO-Local law. MR. MARTIN-Yes, I think any time you mention that, it should be local law, in there. MR. CAIMANO-It's not Ordinance, it's local law. MR. CARTIER-And, WHEREAS,... MR. CAIMANO-The change in the local law. MR. KUPILLAS-It's not a resolution. MR. CARTIER-Change in the local law. I have to go back. MR. CAIMANO-Well, you have to go back and, just change that word, that's all. MR. CARTIER-Proposal, okay. And, WHEREAS, the change in the local law as proposed eliminates said internal checks and balances by vesting power of interpretation in the position of Zoning Administrator, right? MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. CARTIER-Now, Therefore, Be It, Resolved, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained as currently written and Be It Therefore Resolved that, change in local law as proposed be voted down. The only thing that bothers me is, here, is that, unless they get the minutes, they're going to miss out on all this floating around here. 21 - -- MR. CAIMANO-Well, they've got to get the minutes. MRS. EGGLESTON-Well, we're going to go, aren't we? We're all going to be there. MRS. GOETZ-We absolutely should be there. MR. CAIMANO-I'll be there. MRS. EGGLESTON-Altogether. MRS. GOETZ-Does everyone know when it is? MR. CAIMANO-The 19th. MR. TURNER-The 19th. MRS. GOETZ-Next Monday? Are you going to put anything in there about, we would have appreciated notification that they voted? MR. TURNER-I think they know that we should be notified. MRS. MONAHAN-I don't think the minutes are going to do much good, because there's not that much time to read them, between now and then. I think that is a separate directive that you send to the Town Board. saying that, in the future, when the Town Board, also a copy of Paul Dusek's, when the Town Board is considering any action that has an impact on your Boards, you would like to be in on the discussion. MR. MONTESI-I know that four or five people in this room..talked to me about this, being a controversial issue, and I'm not sure, Ted. I saw Ted this morning and he reminded me of this meeting, tonight. So, that's the reason why I'm here, because it's not an easy decision to make to start it. MR. CAIMANO-Betty makes a good point, Ted. I think, maybe, the fact that the minutes aren't going to be read, there IS not that much time. Maybe you and Peter, together, might want to draft a joint letter, from both of our Boards, just as a suggestion, indicating that, not only as courtesy, but we could have, in this time of fiscal emergency, we could have saved a few bucks if they had bothered to talk to you folks, to begin with. MR. MARTIN-I would say that this letter is being written at the unanimous direction of.... MR. CAIMANO-Well, you can't say unanimous, because we aren't all here. Knowing Jim Hagan, it might not be unanimous. MR. MARTIN-Or those present. MR. CAIMANO-Of those present. MRS. GOETZ-We have a majority, from our Board. MRS. PULVER-And we have a quorum. MRS. MONAHAN-That's right, you've all got a quorum. MR. CAIMANO-Okay. MRS. PULVER-So, we'll just call the role. MR. CAIMANO-It's interesting that this interpretation..fooling with this. From our Board's standpoint, the Paul Barton argument that's going on, back and forth, on Glen Lake. Had we not had Jim to bring up some questi ons. a very, very important poi nt woul d have gone ri ght by, not because she was ri ght or wrong, but because this particular Zoning Administrator made the decision and it did not take into consideration a very important point, that the Planning Board never brought up, in a proper... MR. MONTESI-Was it an interpretive decision? MR. CAIMANO-It was very much an interpretive decision, and it had to do with parking and seating and how you interpret what you read. MR. MARTIN-On that particular point, I don't know where there was any room for interpretation. It related to parking requirements when there is a mixed use present, and in the case of that particular applicant, you have a situation where there's a tavern and a restaurant, meaning that a person can go to that establishment for the sole purpose of having a drink and not having dinner, or they can have dinner and not have a drink. So, therefore, when there's two uses present, such as that, parking 22 '--- -- requirements for each use must be met, that's what it says in our Ordinance, and the requirements for a bar are one parking space for every linear foot of bar and then, for a restaurant, one parking space for every hundred square foot of interior space. MR. KUPILLAS-We also missed the deck. MR. CAIMANO-Missed the deck completely. MR. MARTIN-And then there was a whole other issue of the deck as an accessory use, but this is quick and easy to describe, because it's just mere numbers. So, it came out that a parking requirement of 85 cars is needed, if you made those calculations. The applicant had, like, 52, and in that particular situation, parking is a real issue. MRS. MONAHAN-Well, you've got the same thing with the proposed zone in the Mall that isn't taking into consideration the food court, and people will go there just for the food. MR. MARTIN-And the theatre. MRS. MONAHAN-That's right. MR. MARTIN-The requirements for a theatre are one space for every four seats. MR. CAIMANO-But you see, here, again, is interpretation. My point, right or wrong, my point, that night, was, maybe you were there when I said it, it is doubtful, my mind says it's doubtful that someone is goi ng to spend the many mi 11 ions that it takes to do those ki nds of thi ngs, without havi ng thought about all the proper parking spaces. I'm not saying I'm right. 11m saying it was an interpretation of the Boa rd. MRS. MONAHAN-But you can't write your rules and regulations on the assumption that everybody's going to do right. MR. CAIMANO-No, you absolutely can't. I agree. MR. MARTIN-But that's why you have site plan review. MRS. MONAHAN-It should not permit that to be part of the regulations within that zone. MR. CAIMANO-Right. That's where this particular Zoning Administrator has come down on both sides. She's come down on both sides of the fence. MRS. GOETZ-Right, the interpretation problem of 50 percent expansion of nonconforming use, and there's just been one thing after another, and it upsets the applicant. MR. CAIMANO-Sure. MR. MARTIN-Well, yes. really, we're faced, in our particular role, we have the applicant thinking, well, I'm here in site plan, I get this approval and I'm going to get my Building Permit, and now I'm being told, for the first time, that I'm short on parking, by 30 spaces? MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. MARTIN-I don't blame him for being upset. MR. CAIMANO-That's unfair to him. MR. CARTIER-Are you ready? MRS. GOETZ- Yes. MR. CARTIER-Do we need to go back through the resolution, from the beginning part? Do you want me to go through the whole thing, again? MR. CAIMANO-Just get to the meat of the thing. MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. CARTIER-WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways, and, WHEREAS, the internal checks and balances as currently exist need to be maintained, and WHEREAS, the position of Zoning Administrator needs to be insulated from political and/or special interest pressures, and, WHEREAS, the change in the local law as proposed eliminates said internal checks and balances by vesting power of interpretation in the position of Zoning Administrator 23 --- - without benefit of appeal by other Boards, Now Therefore, Be It, Resolved, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained as currently written, and Be It Further Resolved, that change in local law as proposed be voted down. MRS. MONAHAN-Why does it have to be voted down? Why don't you just say, be not enacted. MR. CAIMANO-But not enacted, there's the word. MR. CARTIER-As proposed... MR. CAIMANO-Be not enacted. MRS. GOETZ-Never come to a vote. MR. LAPOINT-Dropped from further consideration. MRS. MONAHAN-That's a good thing. MRS. GOETZ-Yes, that's good, dropped from further consideration. MRS. MONAHAN-That's even stronger. MR. CAIMANO-Be dropped from further consideration? MRS. MONAHAN-Yes, that's to the point. MR. CARTIER-Be It Further Resolved, that the change in local law as proposed be dropped from further consideration, by the Town Board. MR. CAIMANO-Well, that's who we're talking to. MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. CAIMANO-It's redundant. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MRS. EGGLESTON-Our work's cut out for us, though, because the one's live talked to I don't think are going to be swayed, other than the two that are here, tonight. MRS. GOETZ-George Kurosaka came from the Zoning Board of Appeals and we all have to talk to him, because... he woul d be for it. MRS. MONAHAN-Well, maybe, when you're talking to individual people, you'll go through some of the things that you said, here, tonight, where you think the dangers are, you know, the actual wordage in here, why you think it's so bad. MR. CARTIER-I still think the minutes ought to be sent on, even though they mayor may not read them. I think they still should be there. MR. CAIMANO-Well, first things first. I move that we ask the Chairman of the Planning Board and the Zoning Board to submit this resolution to the Town Board at the November 19th meeting. MR. CARTIER-We've got to accept the resolution. first. MR. CAIMANO-That's what we're doing. MR. TURNER-We haven't voted on it. MR. CAIMANO-We haven't voted on it? I move the acceptance. MR. TURNER-Okay, do we have a second? MRS. EGGLESTON-I'll second it. MR. MARTIN-How do we do a split acceptance like that? MR. CAIMANO-Well, my suggestion would be, we just state our names and what Board we're on. MR. CARTIER-We have an introduction by Nick Caimano, Planning Board and a second by... 24 "--' MR. CAIMANO-Joyce Eggleston. RESOLUTION IN REFERENCE TO ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS AIID PlANNING BOARD CONCERNS REGARDING THE QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD PROPOSAL TO MAKE CHANGES IN THE DUTIES OF POSITION OF ZONING ADMINISTRATOR. KIIOWN AS. -A lOCAL LAW PROVIDING FOR THE AIIUNISTRATlON AID EIIFORCEMENT OF THE STATE UNIFORM FIRE PREVENTION AIID BUILDING CODE AID RELATED LAWS. CODES. ORDINAllCES. AID REGULATIONS- RESOLUTION: , 1990 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nicholas Caimano, Planning Board WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mrs. Joyce Eggleston, Zoning Board of Appeals WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways, and WHEREAS, the internal checks and balances as currently exist need to be maintained, and WHEREAS, the position of Zoning Administrator needs to be insulated from political and/or special interest pressures, and WHEREAS, the change in the local law as proposed eliminates said internal checks and balances by vesting power of interpretation in the position of Zoning Administrator without benefit of appeal by other Boards, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained as currently written, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that the change in local law as proposed be dropped from further consideration. Duly adopted this 12th day of November, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Planning Board: Mr. Martin, Mr. Kupillas, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Caimano, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Cartier Zoning Board: Mr. Kelley, Mrs. Eggleston, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Turner ABSENT: Planning Board: Mr. Hagan Zoning Board: Mr. Carr, Mr. Shea, Mr. Sicard MR. CAIMANO-I'd like to move that the Chairman of the Planning Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals be empowered to present this resolution to the Town Board, along with all the minutes of this meeting. MRS. GOETZ-I think the minutes should go, ahead of time. MRS. MONAHAN-I think the resolution should go ahead of time. MR. CAIMANO-Well, either way, you guys, let's get it going, first. MRS. MONAHAN-But then. I think, that night, you should get up and read it, but, see, I think you should send it, ahead of time, and then read it that night. MRS. GOETZ-I think it's nice if we have copies of it, for the press, available, after it's read to the Town Board. MR. KELLEY-Were Peter and Ted going to send a letter, additionally, right? MRS. EGGLESTON-Yes. MR. TURNER-Yes. 25 - ---'" MR. KELLEY-Would you want to, in the letter, just give a brief summary of some of the highlights of what was di scussed, here, so if they don't read these other mi nutes in depth, you coul d say, here's a substance of why we did what we did. MR. CAIMANO-That's a good idea. MR. KELLEY-So, they could read it. MR. CAIMANO-Do you need a motion, or do you guys just go ahead and do all that stuff? What we need to do is have you guys write your letter, and what they're saying is.... MR. CARTIER-To whom, the Town Board? MR. CAIMANO-The Town Board, indicating that yould like, just like you said before. MR. MARTIN-One of three things. There were three things, right? MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. MARTIN-Attach the resolution. MR. CARTIER-What is this, a cover letter? MR. MARTIN-Yes, transmitting the resolution and the minutes. MR. CARTIER-One, Transmit resolution, Two, minutes, Three, summary of... MR. MARTIN-Highlights of the meeting and, Four the Board's joint concern about being consulted prior to matters of this type. MR. CARTIER-Okay, now, summary of highlights. Give me some highlights. MR. CAIMANO-Well, I think you guys. MR. CARTIER-No, because I'm not going to have the minutes in front of me to do that. MR. CAIMANO-Yes, but you and Ted got the drift of the meeting. MR. TURNER-I've got to tell you that the Town Board can do what they want to do, irregardless. MR. CAIMANO-Absolutely. MR. TURNER-That's their prerogative. MRS. GOETZ-Is everyone going to be contacting their Town Board members? MRS. PULVER-Yes, and let's contact the media, of course, they already are contacted. MR. CAIMANO-I agree with you, Ted, that's the scary part of this thing. You almost have to get to a point where you say, okay, fine, then we'll all resign or something, if you don't do it, but you're not going to do that. MRS. GOETZ-Is the public hearing at 7:30? MRS. PULVER-7:00. MRS. GOETZ-7:00? MRS. PULVER-Well, the meeting starts at 7:00. MR. CARTIER-Do you know what the highlights are? I really want some more feedback on what you mean by "highlights". MRS. GOETZ-The political influence. MR. CAIMANO-Very much concerned about the political influence. MR. MARTIN-Power of interpretation. MRS. PULVER-Right, taking the power away from the ZBA and putting it in the hands of the Zoning Admini strator. MR. CAIMANO-~ person. 26 ',~ - MRS. PULVER-Right, one single individual. MR. LAPOINT-We feel the problem could be eliminated if the job was administered as defined. MR. MARTIN-Yes. and our current Ordinance is fine, regarding this matter. MR. KELLEY-It was the feeling that the Ordinance was, basically, a black and white writing, and that, if the person applying, or whatever, for the permit, didn't agree with the way the Administrator read the Ordinance, then they had the right to appeal to the Zoning Board of Appeals. MR. TURNER-That is your right, if she turns them down for a Building Permit or whatever. They have to come back. MR. CARTIER-What else? MR. MARTIN-Appeal need not be based on interpretation, but just decision alone. MR. CARTIER-I don't understand that. MR. MARTIN-Because I know what Paul's thinking. He's thinking that there has to be an interpretation made by the Zoning Administrator as a basis for appeal, and that's not the case..for a decision. MR. CARTIER-Decisions... MR. MARTIN-Are basis for... MR. CARTIER-And not only, not just interp's, right? MR. CAIMANO-Right. MR. CARTIER-Can be appealed. MRS. GOETZ-Where's that part where we said we objected to that position was the final word and could never be..to anyone else? MR. TURNER-Right here. MR. CAIMANO-C2. MR. CARTIER-I can go back and use my old WHEREAS's that I threw away. MR. CAIMANO-Thatls right, that's what we're saying. Just look at what we said. MRS. GOETZ-Peter, this part about, "Shall be vested with the Zoning Administrator and be final, and not subject to review by any other Town Department, Official, or Employee." MR. CARTIER-Okay. Do Ted and I have to..this all out for you guys, first? MR. MARTIN-No. MRS. GOETZ-Don't fool around with it anymore. MR. LAPOINT-The point that ,I'd like to make is just that it's right to the point, as a letter of transmission, with the resolution and then the minutes. MR. MARTIN-Yes, you want this so it's about that same length, three quarters of a page. MR. LAPOINT-Yes, because you want to make a point. MR. CARTIER-Alright, I guess we're adjourning. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Theodore Turner, Chairman 27 -- - FINDINGS FROM NOVEMBER 12TH. 1990 JOINT PLANNING BOARD. ZBA. TOWN BOARD MEETING RESOLUTION IN REFERENCE TO ZONING BOARD OF APPEAlS AND PLANNING BOARD CONCERNS REGARDING THE QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD PROPOSAL TO MAKE CHANGES IN THE DUTIES OF POSITION OF ZONING ADMINISTRATOR. KIIOIIN AS. -A LOCAL LAW PROVIDING FOR THE ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE STATE UNIFORM FIRE PREVENTION AID BUILDING CODE AND RELATED LAWS. CODES. ORDINANCES AND REGULATIONS- RESOLUTION: , 1990 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Nicholas Caimano, Planning Board WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: MRS. JOYCE EGGLESTON, ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS WHEREAS, the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury are desirous of maintaining a procedure by which adequate reviews of site plans, subdivisions, and zoning interpretations are done in appropriate ways, and WHEREAS, the internal checks and balances as currently exist need to be maintained, and WHEREAS, the position of Zoning Administrator needs to be insulated from political and/or, special interest pressures, and WHEREAS, the change in the local law as proposed eliminates said internal checks and balances by vesting power of interpretation in the position of Zoning Administrator without benefit of appeal by other Boards, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Zoning Board of Appeals and Planning Board strongly recommends that the duties of Zoning Administrator as defined in Article 12, Section 12.010, Zoning Administrator, be retained as currently written, and BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that change in local law as proposed be dropped from further consideration. Duly adopted this 12th day of November, 1990, by the following vote: AYES: Planning Board: Mr. Martin, Mr. Kupillas, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Caimano, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Cartier Zoning Board: Mr. Kelley, Mrs. Eggleston, Mrs. Goetz, Mr. Turner ABSENT: Planning Board: Zoning Board: Mr. Hagan Mr. Carr, Mr. Shea, Mr. Sicard