1991-06-25
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QUEENSBURY PlANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 25TH, 1991
INDEX
Site Plan No. 25-91
Site Plan No. 32- 91
Site Plan No. 31-91
Margaret F. & Theodore M. Hans 1.
Frank Sears 3.
Nigro Real Estate and Empire Video Superstore 9.
Site Plan No. 36-91
Frank and Kathleen England
11.
Subdivision No. 5-1991
FINAL STAGE EXPEDITED MATTER
Judith and Frank Bartkowski
13.
Site Plan No. 37-91
Harold Lansburg
14.
Subdivision No. 8-1991
PRELIMINARY STAGE
James R. & Joann Curcio
17.
Subdivision No. 6-1991
FINAL STAGE
Bowen Subdivision
Gary D. and Suzanne F. Bowen
21.
Site Plan No. 38-91
Joan M. Lee
21.
Subdivision No. 7-1991
PRELIMINARY STAGE
Ferguson Subdivision
Robert E. Sharp, D.D.S., D.M.D.
23.
Off Premises Sign
Permit No. 3-91
J A P Auto Fix
28.
Site Plan No. 39-91
Eugene Zielinski
31.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL
APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSIIJRY PLAMING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 25TH, 1991
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
PETER CARTIER, CHAIRMAN
CAROL PULVER, SECRETARY
NICHOLAS CAIMANO
EDWARD LAPOINT
TIMOTHY BREWER
JAMES HAGAN
JAMES MARTIN
DEPUTY TOWN ATTORNEY-KARLA CORPUS
TOWN ENGINEER-RIST-FROST, REPRESENTED BY TOM YARMOWICH
SENIOR PLANNER-LEE YORK
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
OLD BUSINESS:
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SITE PLAN NO. 25-91 TYPE I WR-lA MRGARET F. I THEODORE M. HANS OWNER: SAME A$ ABOVE GUNN LANE,
CLEVERDALE TO EXPAND A PREEXISTING HOME AND ATTACHED GARAGE. (WARREN coom PLAfÙlING) TAX MP NO.
12-3-16 LOT SIZE: 1:1 ACRE SECTION
WALTER REHM, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 25-91, Margaret F. and Theodore M. Hans, June
21, 1991, Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "On June 19, the applicant received variances for shoreline
setbacks and for an expansion of over 50 percent. A SEQRA Negative Declaration was issued by the
Planning Board previously. The project is before the Board for a site plan review and was reviewed
with regard to Section 179-38 (formerly 7.070). 1. The location, arrangement, and size of the building
has been found to be compatible with the site. 2. Vehicular access is not a concern. 3. There are
10 parking spaces identified on the plan. There appears to be a lot for a residential site. Since
the permeable area on the site is very close to the minimum allowed by code, the Board may want to
consider reduction of the parking spaces to increase the permeable area. 4. Pedestrian access is
not a concern. 5. The engineer has commented on the drainage. 6. The lot has a new holding tank
which is adequate for the structure and an existing well. 7. The applicant indicated that they had
a landscaping plan for the site. Since it is a waterfront property with other residences behind it,
the Board should make sure that any proposed trees do not infringe on the neighbors view. 8. Emergency
access is not a problem. 9. Erosion control standards should be adhered to during construction."
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. Tom, please.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich, Rist-Frost, Town Engineer, June 20, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. SWM management to address increased runoff from proposed
additional impermeable areas is adequate with 70 feet of eave trench."
MR. CARTIER-I believe there's someone here representing the applicant?
MR. REHM-I'm Walter Rehm and I represent Mr. and Mrs. Hans. As the Board knows, we went through this
project in some detail, last month, on the SEQRA evaluation, and I would just inquire as to how much
detail you would like. Would you like just kind of an overview and then do this on a question and
answer basis?
MR. CARTIER-Well, if someone else wants an overview, but I don't need one. I would suggest maybe you
may want to comment on Staff Notes, particularly Item 3 and 7.
MR. REHM-I haven't seen the Staff Notes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. REHM-(After looking at Notes} That doesn't really bother us at all. I mean, we can reduce the
number of parking spaces to, there's parking in the garage, we can reduce it by 50 percent, I would
think, to five parking spaces.
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MR. CARTIER-Great.
MR. REHM-These are permeable parking spaces, but are not counted as permeable in Queensbury?
MR. CARTIER-In Queensbury, correct.
MR. REHM-And the other one was?
MR. CAIMANO-Seven.
MR. REHM-Just to clarify, it would be a maximum of five parking spaces. John was just mentioning to
me that he doesn't think it would even be that many because of the landscaping plan and so on, but
if the Board is satisfied with a maximum of five, we would not exceed that. Well, you'll recall that
we presented a site line evaluation at the last meeting.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. That had to do with the building itself, however, not any landscaping.
MR. REHM-I think it's fair to ask the question. I'm not so sure what the answer is, other than saying
that Mr. and Mrs. Hans will trim the trees that are put in, to the extent that they will not unreasonably
interfere with the view of the lake from the people in the back. It's the houses in the back that
are most impacted and perhaps the second Kittredge house which is a 1 ittle cabin on the back of that
lot, but I don't know what else we can do. We're trying to landscape the property to make it
aesthetically pleasing. On the other hand, I think no tree in an area where it impacts a view would
exceed some predetermined height. I don't have an answer for exactly what that height would be though.
MR. CARTIER-Well, I think it's a valid point by Mrs. York because we're putting up a much larger building
here that does have an impact on the view. We've dealt with that and we want to be sure that we don't
do thi s anymore. I understand that the nei ghbors behi nd have no objecti on to thi s appl i cati on, but
looking long term down the road, unfortunately, we don't all live forever and there are going to be
other people living in those places at some point.
MR. CAIMANO-Could we go back, though, for a second, and lets put some reality into this. We already
talked about the things that we could do something about and that's the building and we agreed that
the line of site was proper. We're talking about trees that are going to grow. We can no more determine
here what's going to happen than any other property on the lake. I mean, everybody has to be a neighbor
to everybody else. I think it's a pig in a poke, frankly. There's nothing we can do about that.
We can't determine how high the tree is going to grow.
MR. CARTIER-Well, we can say that the trees will not be placed in such a way as to further reduce line
of site behind that. We certainly have that right to do that.
MR. CAIMANO-I think we're going way out of bounds.
MR. REHM-Well, I would simply assure the Board, Mr. and Mrs. Hans are here, and I would simply assure
the Board that they will exercise restraint and common sense. If a tree gets to the point that it
does materially interfere with the view of one of the houses and it's made known to them, I'm sure
that they would cooperate. 1'm not sure that the Town of Queensbury wants to get involved in making
the determination as to what portion of what tree comes off.
MR. CARTIER-No, we don't.
MR. REHM-As a matter of fact, I'm very sure of that, but other than that I really don't know what else
I can say. I did mention, at the SEQRA meeting and also at the Zoning Board of Appeals, and I'll
reiterate tonight, that there will be no use of insecticides or pesticides on the property.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Or fertilizers, we also mentioned fertilizers. Thank you. Okay. Does anybody
else have any questions or comments on Staff? If not, I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone
here who would care to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-We have done the SEQRA on this already. Anybody on the Board have any questions or comments?
MR. MARTIN-I think the applicant's gone to quite an extent to prove, or to make sure that the site
lines and all that are favorable for the neighbors. I don't have any problem with the plan as it is,
and I will take him up on his offer of the 50 percent parking reduction.
MR. CAIMANO-Right.
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MR. CARTIER-Great. Okay. I guess we just need to incorporate that into a motion, then.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 11). 25-91 MARGARET F. I THEOOORE M. HANS, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano
who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
To expand a preexisting home and attached garage, with the following notations: Number One, the parking
of 10 spots be reduced 50 percent to five spots, and Two, a record is to be made of Mr. Rehm's comments
tonight, indicating that the Hans' will take due diligence in their landscaping. Number Three, no
pesticides or fertilizers are to be used on the property. Four, 70 feet of eaves trench to be installed.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Hagan
MR. CARTIER-We're going to step off the agenda, here, the one that you might have seen tonight, to
go back and pick up some Old Business from last week.
SITE PLAN NO. 35-91 TYPE: UNLISTED SR-2O FRANK SEARS OWNER: CHRISTINE SEARS SOOTH END OF STEVENS
ROAD, 1 MILE PAST (WEST) ON CORINTH ROAD FROM rfORTlllAY, LEFT ONTO STEVES ROAD TO THE VERY END. FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF A DUPLEX. TAX IMP NO. 147-1-44.41 LOT SIZE: 2.28 ACRES SECTION 4.020 G
MICHAEL O'CONNOR, REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT, PRESENT; FRANK SEARS, PRESENT
MR. CARTIER-A question came up, last week, in reference to this property, as to whether or not a business
was being operated there, and we have a letter from the Zoning Administrator. I'll read that into
the record, this is to the Planning Board from Pat Crayford, Zoning Administrator, date June 25, 1991
"I met with Frank Sears on June 24, 1991 and also reviewed the transcript of his appearance at the
June 18, 1991 Planning Board meeting. Mr. Sears stated that his son placed an ad in the Post Star
to test the waters for responses. He also stated that he does use the equipment at his own site, but
does not operate a business at his home. David and I did speak with Mr. Sears, nearly a year ago,
about operating a tree service at his property on Stevens Road. Mr. Sears insisted that he is not
operating a business and there was no proof to dispute this. He had no equipment with his name or
phone number and there was no advertising of this service. As of today, there is an ad in the Post
Star that reads 'Action Tree Service, Frank Sears, call 793-8466'. I have determined that the storage
of heavy equipment at Frank Sears property is associated with Action Tree Service. Heavy Equipment
Storage is defined in the Zoning Ordinance as 'the exterior or interior storage and maintenance of
large operational equipment, such as trucks, bulldozers, backhoes, engines, compressors, and other
similar machinery for use on another lot'. This is a permitted use only in a Light Industrial zone.
It is not permitted in a suburban residential zone." So the problem we're confronted with, here, is
that we have a business that's being operated in a Residential zone and there is no record of approval
of that business with regard to variances or that sort of thing. In the yellow pages, there's also
a Keith Norton who is advertising a tree business of some sort with a Stevens Lane address also. I
don't know if this is the same building or not. Is there someone here representing the applicant?
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Chairman, I'm Michael O'Connor from the law firm of Little and O'Connor. I'm here,
I guess, primarily to address the issue that you just brought up, not necessarily to address the site
plan itself. Mr. Steves, from VanDusen and Steves, has been presenting that. I think if you look
at the memorandum of Pat Crayford, you will find that there is very little in there that we dispute
and really the only indication in there that there is something that's in the operation of a business
is the ad that was placed in the Post Star, which Mr. Sears explains as being an ad placed there at
the request of his son who operates a tree business in Saratoga, to test the waters to see if it would
justify him trying to open up a branch of that business in Saratoga some place in the Town of Queensbury,
based upon the competition that's here. They used Frank's address and phone and made a mistake in
doing so.
MR. CARTIER-Are you representing to us that no heavy equipment trucks go down Stevens Road to that
garage?
MR. O'CONNOR-Not in the operation of a business, and I have an affidavit to submit to the Board.
MR. CARTIER-Well, are there heavy equipment trucks that go down Stevens Road to that garage, irregardless
of business?
MR. SEARS-There has been.
MR. CARTIER-Why do they go down that road?
MR. SEARS-Because I own them, sir, and I live there, and if I need something sometimes I go home to
get it.
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MR. CARTIER-Could you identify yourself on the record?
MR. SEARS-Frank Sears.
MR. CARTIER-How many vehicles go down the road, here?
MR. SEARS-I have one large truck and one pickup.
MR. CARTIER-I wish you had been here last week. We have a number of residents in the area who are
complaining about the operation of heavy trucks on this road in a residential area. What is that garage
used for, that big garage that's there? That's a three bay garage?
MR. SEARS-Right now, personal equipment.
MR. CARTIER-By "personal equipment", what do you mean?
MR. SEARS-I have a tractor in it. My pick up's in it, and some equipment I use around the yard.
MR. HAGAN-Isn't that related to your livelihood?
MR. SEARS-No. I work full time for the State of New York.
MR. HAGAN-What do you use bulldozer stuff for personally?
MR. SEARS-Well, some of it's left over from the tree business, from when I was in the tree business
full time. There's a lot of equipment there that never leaves the yard.
MR. HAGAN-See, I have a problem disputing all your neighbors who claim that that building is used for
business purposes. and that's the part of the argument I'd like to.
MR. SEARS-It has been, in the past.
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Chairman, can I address that, in the aspect of from this day forward? Apparently,
there has been some concern because there has been some outside storage of equipment outside the barn
and occasionally if Mr. Sears is not working for the State or working from the State comes back and
forth to his house, he does go up and down that road. Sometimes he's driving a heavy duty truck when
he's doing that. What we would propose to you is simply that.
MR. CARTIER-What is the nature of the heavy duty truck?
MR. SEARS-It's a crane. It's a truck crane.
MR. CARTIER-It's a truck crane. Used for, in the tree business?
MR. SEARS-No. It's used for putting up signs, air conditioners, and roof trusses and that type of
thing.
MR. CARTIER-Well, do you do that free? You don't do that for nothing, do you? That's a business.
That's a business vehicle, is it not?
MR. SEARS-Well, it started out to be a business, but it hasn't really worked out that way.
MR. CARTIER-But you're operating a business vehicle out of that garage. I don't want to dance around
this thing. We've spent a lot of time dancing around with it. What I'm hearing is that there is a
crane truck going up and down Stevens Lane that's being used for business, correct?
MR. O'CONNOR-Correct.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. So, a business is, in fact, being operated. We're not going to get into how much
business is being done. The fact of the matter is a business is being operated out of that Stevens
Lane property, in violation of the Town of Queensbury Ordinances.
MR. MARTIN-I don't dispute the point you're making. I think that it's probably pretty much on the
mark, but even getting back to the letter, here, it's not just simply the operation of a business.
It's storage of equipment, whether it's in support of a business or not. That is why equipment is
not allowed in a Residential zone, for no matter what use it goes back and forth on that road. It
is simply not supposed to be there, whether it's personal, business related, or not. It's not supposed
to be there in a Residential zone because of the danger it can impose on the neighborhood. So,
therefore, whether it's business related or it's just simply there for personal storage, it's not
supposed to be there.
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MR. O'CONNOR-I would 1 ike to submit, for the record, an affidavit that Mr. Sears is will ing to make
as a condition to his application for this site plan approval. I would also like to advise the Board
that as of yesterday and tOday, as I understand it, there have been arrangements to move the equipment
that is in question and is objectionable from the property. It is being stored in a Light Industrial
zone or will be stored in a Light Industri al zone. Now there is some tree cl earance that's goi ng on
on his own property, as part of his plans for construction, and it's being used there for that purpose
at this point, but the intention is to remove it from the site, when that's completed, and he has removed
some of the equipment already from the site. Part of it's going to a Light Industrial zone in the
Town of Queensbury. Some of it's going to an equipment sales operation in the Town of Moreau.
MR. CARTIER-So, in other words, we're moving any business operation that's there permanently out of
that area?
MR. O'CONNOR-Yes, sir.
MR. MARTIN-And the equipment that's been stored.
MR. CARTIER-Correct. Good point.
MRS. PULVER-Mike, I want you to know, last week during the public hearing, the neighbors were objecting
not so much to the duplex, but that the duplex was going to create additional traffic to the traffic
that Mr. Sears already was creating with his trucks.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. I haven't seen the minutes of that, so I accept that. Basically, what Mr. Sears
is saying, and I won't get into the preliminary parts of it, is that I realize that his past activity
has caused some concern. To end this, I am willing to stipulate that I would use this barn for storage
of personal property only. All equipment will be removed from site, if not stored within. Any equipment
that I am using actively, even in a limited fashion, I will store elsewhere.
MR. CARTIER-Great.
MR. HAGAN-Would you be willing to add the words "noncommercial vehicles", because I think the objection
is that commercial vehicles represent some kind of a business.
MR. O'CONNOR-Well, I don't think our Ordinance, Mr. Hagan, says that you can't take a commercial vehicle
home if you happen to drive it as your means of transportation.
MR. HAGAN-I'm not talking about pickup trucks.
MR. O'CONNOR-I'm tal king about a heavy duty truck. Take a look at the guy who drives for All ied.
He takes the truck home and he parks it next to his house. I'd have a problem with that broad a
stipulation. I would.
MR. CARTIER-Well, what we're saying, basically, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong is, we want to
remove any business operation from that piece of property. Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-I think Mr. Sears is willing to do that.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. It sounds like that. Just to be very crystal clear here, my only question would
be, what is your definition of personal property?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. HAGAN-Bulldozers, earth movers?
MR. SEARS-No. I don't have any bulldozers.
MR. O'CONNOR-If they're there for personal use, I also don't think that we have anything in our Ordinance
that says that you can't have a bulldozer if you're using it for your own personal use on your property.
Are we into regulating how big a tractor you have on your yard? If it's not used for business. I
am willing to stipulate he will not have any equipment that's there used for business.
MR. CAIMANO-You're putting fine edges on this thing. You wouldn't take that to the Supreme Court and
you know it. You know what we're talking about and we all know what we're talking about.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. This is not an application for business either.
MR. CARTIER-Yes, but it's been an issue that's been brought up, and appropriately brought up here,
I think.
MR. SEARS-Any of thi s equipment that woul d be stored in that barn woul d not be used for any type of
business. It would never leave the property.
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MR. MARTIN-Again, I want to stress. I don't care if you're in business or not, the plain,
of the matter is, there is not supposed to be a crane truck, a double axle crane truck,
of that nature on that site in a Residential zone stored there. Plain, simple, period.
interpretation of it.
simple fact
or anything
That is my
MR. SEARS-I understand that.
MR. MARTIN-The business is irrelevant, not to say that the business isn't allowed also, but even if
it's storage, it's not supposed to be there.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Does anybody else have any questions of the appl icant? I know the public hearing
was left open.
MRS. PULVER-Mr. Sears, when did you build the apartment over the garage? What year was that?
MR. SEARS-When the house was built.
MRS. PULVER-What year was that?
MR. SEARS-'78, '79, somewhere around there.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. Would anybody else from the public care to comment?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
ED NORTON
MR. NORTON-I'm Ed Norton, and I 1 ive just up the street from Frank. I've got a couple of questions.
He said his son put these ads in. I'll leave them with you. You can look at them. I believe every
one of those ads says Frank Sears and his telephone number on all of them. Also on his trucks, Frank
Sears, not Mike. Mike Sears has a different telephone number for his business.
MR. CARTIER-Do you have a place, Mr. Sears, to store, at this point I'm hearing you have a place to
store all of this heavy equipment that you use in your business, correct?
MR. SEARS-Yes, sir. I have a place to store all the equipment. The crane was moved today.
MR. CARTIER-So, there is no need, if I understand correct, for example, for that to run up and down
Stevens Lane to your house. You have a personal vehicle that you can drive to the location, wherever
this is parked and drive this to the job, drive it back and park it in a non-residential zone and take
your own personal vehicle home. Is that correct?
MR. SEARS-Yes, sir.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. SEARS-Sir, it was on the property because we were using it taking trees down on the property.
MR. CARTIER-In connection with this duplex construction, correct?
MR. SEARS-Yes. We were clearing lines for the power.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. So, once this duplex is built, there won't be any other heavy equipment involved?
MR. SEARS-The crane is out of there now.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-I have a letter, and it says, "To Whom it May Concern: I reside on Stevens Road. I am
home all day long and trucks from Sears Tree Business are up and down Stevens Road from morning, noon,
afternoon, and evening. Signed, Geraldine Dwyer"
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. SEARS-Well, somebody's making a mistake, because very rarely does even my pickup go up and down
the road.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Well, I think you get the sense of where we're coming from, here, where the
neighborhood's coming from at this point. If, in the future, a piece of heavy equipment goes down
that road, I suspect
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that somebody in the Town of Queensbury is going to get a phone call. Okay, and somebody will be driving
out there to talk to you again, and I hope what you're representing to us is going to be held to, that
there is going to be no business operated. There is going to be no heavy equipment stored there in
any way, shape, or form.
MR. SEARS-That's right, sir.
MR. CARTIER-Great. Okay.
MR. NORTON-The other thing, last week, we were talking about was the size of this garage, when he got
a variance for the size of the garage that all these vehicles are in. Now, he did take his crane out,
today, and it's down at Arrowhead Equipment right now. His chipper went out probably about 7:30 this
morning. He still has a stump grinder. I didn't see that go out tOday. That's been there, but the
garage was something we were supposed to find out about this week. The one that's on his property
plan, where it's cut so the new property is going to include that garage in it. Remember, last week
we were going to find out whether that ever had a building permit or a variance to put that large of
a garage in there? I'm within the 500 feet and I never got notice of a garage going in there, of that
size.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. That's a separate enforcement issue and I'm not really sure where we need to go
with that.
MR. CAIMANO-Well, it may be a separate enforcement issue, but it goes to the heart of the matter of
veracity here. Why don't we let Mr. Sears prove his worth first, get the stuff out. Find the place
for it, show that he's going to be a good neighbor and then come back.
MR. NORTON-As long as his equipment is out of there, I've got no complaint about his new duplex
whatsoever. I am interested in that garage, the way it's cut out to go to the new property, if he's
indeed going to keep a business and he's going to move into the new house, then he's still got his
garage for his business.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. That's a future situation we can't deal with tonight. You certainly can deal with
that in the future, if and when, and I don't think it's going to happen, a business shows up there.
MR. NORTON-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-I don't know if we can do anything about the size of the garage, either. That's a preexisting
structure. That doesn't come into the context of this review.
MR. SEARS-Sir, there's still a couple of pieces of equipment there that have to be moved. It will
probably be tomorrow or the next day. I think what our plans are, in the future, as soon as the duplex
is built, is to get a permit to remove the garage from the property. It's kind of an eyesore to us,
now.
MR. HAGAN-That would solve everything.
MR. SEARS-And it's exhausted it's use. It's too big. I'm being taxed on it. So that was our next
move.
MR. CARTIER-Great.
JOHN SENECAL
MR. SENECAL-My name is John Senecal and I also live on Stevens Road and I don't have any problem with
Frank at all, and I don't have any problem with Mr. Norton, or excuse me, Keith, having his business
there either. If they're both going to move them out, then that's fine with me. The only thing I
have a problem with is with the trucks going up and down the street as they do. I have a six year
old, and I worry about that. We also have a little blind girl on the street and I wish that if, you
know, any success he has, I have no problem with the duplex whatsoever, but I wish that they would
keep in mind what they've talked about doing tonight, because we do have our children there.
MR. MARTIN-I've got a question for you.
to be a lot of businesses on this street.
As a pure resident, I hope, on the road only, there seems
How many are we talking about?
MR. SENECAL-Well, this isn't Beverly Hills. This is Queensbury, NY and we all don't have jobs like
you have. We have to earn a living, too.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I know, but how many heavy equipment related businesses are operating on this street?
MR. SENECAL-Just the two that I can see. I have my pickup, there, which is a commercial vehicle.
It's not a bulldozer.
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MR. MARTIN-Yes, but I'm beginning to think that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, here.
MR. SENECAL-That's true, and I admit to Mr. Sears, I have a small compressor, that fits on the back
of my truck in my storage shed out back, okay, which I do use for my business, but it's not heavy
equipment.
MR. CARTIER-Understand, if there is a business operating in this neighborhood that is not allowed,
this Town cannot do anything about it until we know about it. Okay, but we're not going to clear up
everything tonight. We have just this one site plan we're dealing with. Is there anyone else who
would care to comment from the public?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-Does the Board have any other questions or cOlll11ents? Well, we need to conduct a SEQRA
Review and then make a motion that's going to be a rather long motion, I think.
MRS. PULVER-Well, I was just going to say, if this was going to be a motion to approve, I'm somewhat
leaning toward what Nick said. Maybe we wait. I think I would feel better, in this case, having the
equipment. Going back, checking the site again, and I don't have any questions about the duplex.
I don't have any problem with the duplex.
MR. O'CONNOR-Is it possible that you might accompl ish the goal that the Board is talking about and
also not necessarily delay the appl icant by indicating that the Building Department were not to issue
a Building Permit until they had ascertained that all construction equipment had been removed from
the site, per your approval?
MRS. PULVER-No, because that could be a year.
MR. CAIMANO-Right. and the answer is wrapped up in the SEQRA Review. We can't possibly put a negative
dec SEQRA on this thing knowing what we know right now. No way.
MRS. PULVER-But I could vote for giving them, like, two weeks.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. I don't have a problem with the time limitation either. I'm just trying to do
something tonight as opposed to coming back next month and saying, have you done what you've said in
your application. Every applicant comes in and makes representations to you, and all we're saying
is that we are going to comply with the representations that we have made to you. If you want to put
a time limit on it, that's fine. If you wanted to put a secondary review of it, in the sense that
compliance is shown, compliance, then that's fine.
MRS. PULVER-No. I could live with a time limit to have all the equipment removed in a specific amount
of time.
MR. O'CONNOR-Okay. We can live with two weeks, if that's satisfactory to yourself.
MR. CARTIER-I think we can do a SEQRA if we are willing to agree that the concerns have been mitigated
and will be mitigated by the removal of the heavy equipment from storage.
MR. CAIMANO-Is it a Long Form?
MR. CARTIER-It's a Short Form.
MR. CAIMANO-Lets try and see what happens.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF 10 SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 35-91, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol
Pulver:
MR. CARTIER-Carol's just brought up a good point. Tom, did we ever go through your engineering notes
on this?
MR. YARMOWICH-Yes. Mr. Steves took the advantage of addressing Items A, B, and C, quite thoroughly
during the last meeting. Items D and E would be corrected by simply erasures on his plan to address
the proposed conditions.
MR. CARTIER-Thank you.
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: construction of a duplex
frœ CHRISTINE SEARS, south end of Stevens Road, 1 .11e past (west) on Corinth Road frœ the Northw."
and
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WHEREAS, thi s Pl anning Board has determined that the proposed project and Pl anning Board acti on is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT:
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Caimano
MR. CARTIER-Okay. We can entertain a motion.
tllTlON TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 35-91 FRANK SEARS, Introduced by James Martin who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
With the following stipulations: That all heavy equipment present on the site, and as defined in the
Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, be removed from the site to an acceptable location within the Town or
elsewhere, by July 9th, 1991. Number Two, that he adhere to the affidavit as presented during this
meeting and dated June 25th. Number Three, that New York State Erosion and Sediment Control measures
be adhered to during the construction of the proposed duplex.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Caimano
MR. CARTIER-We have one other piece of Old Business tonight, also.
SITE PLAN NO. 31-91 TYPE: UNLISTED PC-lA MR-5 NIGRO REAL ESTATE AND EMPIRE VIDEO SUPERSTORE OWNER:
JOHN NIGRO RooTE 9, UPPER GLEN STREET, 500 FT. SOOTH OF AVIATION ROAD FOR A 1,000 SQ. n. ADDnlOl
TO EMPIRE VIDEO STORE. FOR EXPANSION TO ACCOtll)l)ATE INCREASED MOVIE DISPLAY AREA. (WARREN CooNTY
PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 99-2-1 TAX MAP NO.. 102-1-2, 3, 4, 23 LOT SIZE: 11 ACRES SECTION 4.020-J
MACK DEAN, REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. CARTIER-We had some minor details that we wanted to get cleared up. As I recall it was traffic
patterns, signage. Lee did you have any further notes on this? I don't believe you did.
MRS. YORK-No.
MR. YARMOWICH-There is a letter addressing the engineering concerns.
MR. CAIMANO-In the stuff we just got?
MR. LAPOINT-No. It was attached to the revised drawing Lee passed out. There should be a single thin
package.
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MR. HAGAN-Stamp dated June 24th.
MR. LAPOINT-It was just passed out here tonight.
MR. CARTIER-Right here?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. From Tom Yarmowich, "We've reviewed the revised project and engineering concerns
have been adequately addressed." Thank you. That's it, right?
MR. YARMOWICH-That's it.
MR. CARTIER-There was signage. That appears to be taken care of. Traffic, Lee, refresh my memory
if you can. Didn't we also talk about arrows on the pavement?
MRS. YORK-On the pavement? Yes, we did.
MR. CARTIER-And that's been shown. Anything else? Mr. Dean?
MR. DEAN-Just for the record, my name is Mack Dean from Morse Engineering representing Nigro Real Estate
and Charlie Mench from Empire Video and I have, at this point, no comment.
MR. CARTIER-Thank you.
MR. CAIMANO-Can I ask a question? Was this discussed at the meeting I wasn't present at?
MR. CARTIER-Correct.
MRS. PULVER-Yes.
MR. CAIMANO-What happened to the rear entrance?
MR. CARTIER-It's still there.
MRS. PULVER-It's there.
MR. MARTIN-It's there.
MR. LAPOINT-They put it in. When he was here, we were discussing it.
MR. CAIMANO-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-I know I left the public hearing open. Is there anyone who would care to comment on this
application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-We did not conduct a SEQRA. SO. we can do that in Short Form.
RESOWTlON WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 31-91, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by James
Martin:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: a 1,000 sq. ft. addition
to EMPIRE VIDEO STORE for expansion to accœ.odate increased lIOYie display area, OtiIned by JOIfIt NIGRO.
Route 9, Upper Glen Street, south of Aviation Road, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
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2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-Would somebody care to make a motion, please.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAI NO. 31-91 NIGRO REAL ESTATE AND EMPIRE VIDEO SUPERSTORE, Introduced by
James Martin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
For a 1,000 sq. ft. addition to Empire Video Store. For expansion to accommodate increased movie display
area.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-Okay. We have one other piece of business from last week. There was an item on the agenda
that needed to be put on this agenda instead.
SITE PLAN NO. 36-91 TYPE I WR-lA FRANK AID KATHLEEN ENGLAND (lØ(ER: SAME AS ABOVE HILUMI ROAD,
CLEVERDALE, 210 LEFT OFF CLEVERDALE ROAD FROM ROOTE 9L FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A DEN, GARAGE, AND PORCH.
RESIDENCE WILL BE OWNER OCCUPIED. PART OF THE DEN AND PORCH ARE WITHIN 75 FT. OF THE LAKE. PART OF
THE DEN IS WITHIN 13 FT. FROM THE NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE. (WARREN COONTY PLANNING) TAX MP NO.
12-3-34.1 LOT SIZE: 0.21 ACRES SECTION 9.010, EXPANSION OF A NOICONFORMING STRUCTURE
FRANK ENGLAND, PRESENT
MRS. YORK-This was a little bit confusing and I want to make the Board aware that when the Englands
came in, they were not even aware that they had an approved site plan on the books. We were all
surprised at this. What happened was the Englands had a variance over a year ago and then they had
a site plan review some time later. Their variance lapsed and they re-appl ied for their variances
which they have received. So when I went through and looked at this, I realized that the modifications
that would be going on, that they had, Number One, an existing site plan. The modifications to that
site plan were very minor in nature, and so it could possibly change the SEQRA determination. However,
when we made the determination that it was a Type I, we were unaware of this. So, I've left it up
to the Board to make a decision, but I wanted you to know I have not had an opportunity to discuss
this with Karla or get her thinking on it since Staff Review because of the constraints in my office
at the time, and I wanted you to be aware of what went on.
MR. CARTIER-Okay, but we have a letter from Karla, now, too, which boils down to that we're going to
decide, I guess you're in agreement that it's.
MRS. YORK-Okay. I did help the Englands do a Long Form and we have a Short Form. So whatever your
decision is on this, we're prepared. So, would you like me to read my comments?
MR. CARTIER-Yes, and then we'll get back to that issue.
STAFF INPUT
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Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 36-91, Frank & Kathleen England, June 19, 1991,
Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "The Englands had a site plan review approved for substantially the same
addition on 11/20/90. The appl icants variance for a 10 foot side yard setback expired and in their
new plan they have re-positioned the den and garage so they need less of a variance (13 feet from the
shorel ine). The appl icant received the new variance on June 19. The only difference between the plan
before the Board and the approved one the applicant has is that the den will be expanded out to the
north end of the garage, rather than stopping at the north end of the house. This addition to the
plan is an area ±1O ft. x 5'4". The applicant has placed a new septic system on the property. They
have already agreed to put three drywells to handle the increased storm water runoff from the addition
and existing structure. The applicant has undertaken to mitigate any environmental impacts. The
Deputy Town Attorney wanted this project listed as a Type I action for SEQRA purposes. Upon review
of the file the Planning Staff felt that the Board may want to consider this a Type II action. The
reasons being 1) This is in actuality a minor modification to an existing site plan approval. 2)
The Board has already done previous SEQRA determination on the project 3) Section 617.13 of the SEQRA
provisions state that a Type II action is (a) Actions or classes of actions which have been determined
not to have a significant effect on the environment are classified as Type II actions and do not require
environmental impact statements or any other determination or procedure under this part. Under this
Type II heading is: (8) Construction or placement of minor structure accessory or appurtenant to
existing facilities, including garages, carports, patios, home swimming pools, fences, barns or other
buildings not changing land use or density including upgrading of buildings to meeting building or
fire codes. When the SEQRA determination was made the Staff was unaware that the applicant had an
existing approval and was simply modifying it."
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Lets deal with that right now.
Type II for this modification we don't do a SEQRA.
What's the Board's feeling? Type I we do a SEQRA.
Is this Board satisfied that the SEQRA?
MR. LAPOINT-I think it's definitely a Type II.
MR. CAIMANO-I do, too.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. So no SEQRA is necessary. Tom, please.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich, Rist-Frost, Town Engineer, June 14, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. Gravel drives and parking areas and sidewalks are
considered impermeable for the purposes of "green" space requirements. Including these areas in the
calculations results in a 72% "green space" and is in compliance with zoning. 2. Site plan 10-90,
for similar improvements to the England residence, included drywells to manage runoff from the driveway
and roof. It is suggested that the included SWM drywells be stipulated as a part of this site plan.
3. Soil erosion and sediment control for disturbed areas should be provided in accordance with New
York State Guidelines for Urban Erosion and Sediment Control."
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you. We have a letter from Warren County Planning Board indicating "No County
Impacts", and Karla's letter, basically, has been dealt with at this point. Mr. England, would you
care to address the Board please.
MR. ENGLAND-Actually, the reason we came back to you is because we had your approval the last time
and by the time the architect drew the pl ans up and we had it checked, we found out that the way the
architect had drawn the plans up, we were two feet too close to the septic system. So we went back
and had them re-drawn to meet it and at thi s time it turned out the den was going to be about 8 by
9 so we figured we might as well go out to where the garage was. Then that was when we came back in
to see the Planning Board and the Zoning Board to see what we had to do. Other than that, everything's
the same.
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone who'd care to comment on this
application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-Does the Board have any questions or comments?
MR. CAIMANO-Just a question to Mr. England regarding Tom's Number Two note. There was a suggestion
by Tom that he include drywells to manage runoff. Tom's suggestion is that, "the previously included
stonnwater management drywells be stipulated as part of this site plan." Do you have any problem with
that?
MR. ENGLAND-No. If you look at the site plan in our application, we've got the same ones back in there
again.
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MR. CAIMANO-Fine. Okay.
MS. CORPUS-I would recolIITend to the Board that since you have decided it's a Type II action, if you
could just mention that in any resolution that you adopt with regard to the approval.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. If there are no other questions, we can entertain a motion on this application.
JlJTlON TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 10. 36-91 FRANK I KATHLEEN ENGLAND, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who
moved for its adoption, seconded by James Martin:
With the following notes: Number One, it is a Type II action and no SEQRA is needed. Number Two,
Mr. Yarmowich's letter of June 14th is to be complied with.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Hagan, Mr. Brewer
MR. MARTIN-I think the applicant is to be commended for his sticktoitiveness and good hearted attitude
during all of this. It was very much appreciated.
MR. ENGLAND-Thank you.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. We're back on the agenda.
NEW IIJSINESS:
EXPEDITED MATTER:
BARTKOWSKI (illER:
SIZE: 2.57 ACRES
SUBDIVISION NO. 5-1991 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED SR-lA JUDITH AND FRANK
SAME AS ABOVE BIG BAY ROAD FOR A 3 LOT SUBDIVISION. TAX MP NO. 143-1-1.7 LOT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Subdivision No. 5-1991, Judith and Frank Bartkowski, June 11,
1991, Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "This 3 lot subdivision on Big Bay Road is an expedited matter.
The subdivision was built in 1987 with all appropriate permits being issued. Due to human error the
mylar and deeds were never filed. This error was discovered a few months ago and the applicant had
to re-apply for subdivision approval for 3 lots which will have no further development. There are
no planning issues involved in this division of and staff recommends approval."
MR. CARTIER-This is an Expedited Matter. If the Board has no questions, I'll go directly to a public
hearing. Is there anyone who'd care to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARTIER-This is simply to establish some legal lines, here, basically, is all it amounts to.
MR. CAIMANO-Are these all the same way, or just this one?
MR. CARTIER-Just this one.
MR. MARTIN-This is a very unique situation.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. Okay.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-Do we need to do a Short Form on this?
MRS. YORK-I think you did it at Preliminary.
MR. CAIMANO-This is Final isn't it?
MR. CARTIER-That's right. Thank you. Okay. We can entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 5-1991 JUDITH AND FRANK BARTIallSKI, Introduced by Carol
Pulver who moved for its adoption seconded by Nicholas Caimano:
For a 3 lot subdivision.
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Duly adopted this 25th day of June. 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 37-91 TYPE: UNLISTED SR-lA HAROLD LANSIIIRG (lINER: SAME AS ABOVE UPPER SHEIUM
AVENUE, ACROSS FROM SMOKE RIDGE FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A 1110 FAMILY HOME. TAX IMP NO. 121-4-3.2 LOT
SIZE: 5li ACRES SECTION 4.020-G
HAROLD LANSBURG, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 37-91, Harold Lansburg, June 24, 1991, Meeting
Date: June 25, 1991 "This application is to place a duplex on 5~ acres on Upper Sherman Avenue.
The zoning is SR-IA and duplexes are allowable with site plan review. The applicant has provided
information stating that the lot will remain treed and clearing will be minimal. Also, due to the
acreage, drainage should not be a concern. It is indicated that the septic system will be in accordance
with Town of Queensbury standards. This application was reviewed with regard to the site plan criteria.
1. The location, arrangement, and size of the structure is not a concern. 2. The Board has had a
recommendation from a fire chief that any multifamily structure with a driveway over 100 ft. keep a
cleared 10 ft. accessway on either side of the driveway. The driveway goes around the structure in
rather an unusual design. It would seem to be a difficult entrance way and could possibly be improved.
There seem to be a number of unnecessary angles. 3. The residences both have carports and there should
be sufficient parking. 4. Pedestrian access is not a concern. 5. The lot size as compared to the
structure, as well as the distance from the surrounding structures makes stonnwater drainage not a
concern. 6. The structure will be Town water and have a conforming septic system. 7. The area will
be heavily treed. 8. Emergency access seems sufficient. 9. The land is not susceptible to ponding
or flooding."
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. Tom.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes by Tom Yarmowich, Rist Frost, Town Engineer, June 13, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. Regarding Subsurface Sewage Disposal: a. The septic
tank located beneath the driveway should be designed for traffic loading. b. Percolation test with
test pit data and date performed should be provided with test location shown on the plans. c. The
septic system sizing criteria (i .e. number of bedrooms in each proposed unit) should be stated."
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. Mr. Lansburg.
MR. LANSBURG-What do I have to do?
MR. CARTIER-Well, I guess what I'd like you to do is address the comments the Staff have made.
MR. LANSBURG-The driveway comes up the lot line and makes one turn into the back and it's plenty wide.
MR. CAIMANO-They're concerned about the little zig zags.
MR. LANSBURG-There's only one turn in it. To explain it, you come up the lot line like this and you
go into the back. That rear area is a parking area.
MR. MARTIN-It seems to me like you've just drawn a bunch of angles because you're trying to make a
straight lines. It's just going to be a curved driveway that curves all along the back of the building,
right?
MR. LANSBURG-There's one curve on the back of the building where you come up the lot line and you just
turn into the back of the building. There's no entrance way from the front, from the road. It's just
grass.
MRS. YORK- I guess, Mr. Lansburg, what we're saying is, I think you just took a rul er and drew thi s,
but it's actually going to be a curved driveway, right? If you could just see this, then I think you'd
see. Do you see what I'm talking about?
MR. LANSBURG-Yes. Actually, the way it is, it's just like this. The way I drew this was to stay out
of the way of all this other stuff, you know, so you could read it.
MRS. YORK-Yes. Okay. Would you just go up and show that to the Board, please, on the plan.
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MR. LANSBURG-Well, what I had in mind, here, see, I had to draw this so that you could see where the
carport is, just out of the way of everything. It's just going to come up the lot line and this whole
rear area is going to be a parking area.
MR. CAIMANO-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Is this septic area going to be under the parking area?
MR. LANSBURG-Yes, right, but it has nothing to do with the driveway itself, it's in the back of it.
MR. CARTIER-But nobody's going to be driving over that?
MR. LANSBURG-No, they won't.
MR. CARTIER-Tom, does that take care of your concern?
MR. YARMOWICH-Well, if, in fact, the septic tank is not located in a travel area, it doesn't need to
be designed for traffic loading. If the septic tank is to be located 10 feet from the house, as normally
shown, it could very well be. You should be aware of that when you construct it because that's what
the Code requires.
MR. LANSBURG-Okay, but this is a proposed plan. The actual plan will be done by a licensed surveyor,
which I'll give the Board a copy of when it's done, if they want it, but I can't do that until the
house and the septic is in because they won't do it.
MR. HAGAN-No imagination.
MR. LANSBURG-No, I asked them. They won't do it. It has to already be in.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, they have to have the footings in place before they'll.
MR. LANSBURG-Yes, because I was going to kill two birds with one stone, but they wouldn't do it.
MR. LAPOINT-I guess I don't understand why you can't have the drawings done ahead of time?
MR. LANSBURG-Because the structure has to be there. When they stamp the plans, it has to be there.
They're saying it's there. That's what they told me, because I was going to have it done.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. I don't know if I agree with that.
MR. MARTIN-Well, no, it's typically done. Like, I'm building a house now. I have to do the same thing.
The surveyor has to come back once the footings are poured and show where the house actually sits
specifically on the lot.
MR. YARMOWICH-That's usually a requirement of a lending institution.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. YARMOWICH-As opposed to legally necessary for filing this kind of information.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, but I understand what he was trying to say. Maybe it was explained wrong to the
surveyor, but I understand what the surveyor says.
MR. CARTIER-Okay, but as long as a septic tank is not going to be under any portion that's being driven
over.
MR. LANSBURG-No, it's not.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. I think that answers that question. Does anybody else have any questions?
MR. MARTIN-Do you have any problem with providing the percolation test data on the plan?
MR. LANSBURG-No, but no one else has there. My rear lot line borders Queen Victoria's Grant. There's
probably 95 units there, one on top of the other. I have 5 and a half acres. My two best friends
own on both sides. They're not complaining. They didn't have it done. There's a couple of them still
under construction right across the street. As far as I know, they didn't have it done.
MR. CAIMANO-Well, the subdivision had it done, didn't it?
MR. LANSBURG-I mean, whatever you say, I'll do.
MR. CAIMANO-Didn't the subdivision have it done?
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MR. YARMOWICH-You will be required, in order to obtain a septic system installation permit, to have
a test done to verify the suitability and have the appropriate length of leachfield as a part of that
permit. So, it'll all be indicated on there.
MR. LANSBURG-Like I said, whatever the Town requires is what it will be.
MR. CAIMANO-Just so you don't feel put upon, though, I think the subdivision, when it was approved,
had to have that. That's what you're asking for is approval of a subdivision. Now, each individual
house that went in didn't have to do it, but the subdivision did. Correct me if I'm wrong, there.
MR. LAPOINT-This is a site plan, but he still needs that.
MR. MARTIN-Nick's right, though. When Queen Victoria's Grant, prior to that being built, they had
to do a percolation test and a test pit and all that. You probably might not have seen it, but it
was done.
MR. CAIMANO-For the area where they were bUilding.
MR. LANSBURG-Okay, then what do I have to do. That's what I don't know.
MR. YARMOWICH-Well, there's little doubt that this area supports the type of disposal system that you
want to use for an individual subsurface. The concerns here are very fast perc rates, in excess of
one minute. If in fact that occurs, you will find yourself being faced with a different septic system
design in order to meet the Ordinance. You may find yourself dealing with a little bit different kind
of design. If it's the pleasure of this Board and they decide to approve this plan, you should be
aware that you would then be subject to what the Building Department determines is required of you,
as opposed to you knowing that before this approval.
MR. LANSBURG-Yes, I put that in the application, that I would do that.
MR. YARMOWICH-You wouldn't get a permit until that test was done and a suitable design was furnished
to the Building Department.
MR. MARTIN-So those last two comments of yours, Tom, Band C, will be taken care of prior to the septic
permit, right?
MR. YARMOWICH-How many bedrooms are proposed here, guess, is the question that we should know?
MR. LANSBURG-Two in each unit. Four bedrooms total.
MR. YARMOWICH-Okay. There's no reason to suspect that the site wouldn't support an adequate septic
system.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Does anybody else have any questions or comments? If not, I'll open the public
hearing. Is there anyone who'd care to address this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-We need to conduct a Short Form SEQRA. I believe.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 37-91, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol
Pulver:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: construction of a two fa.ily
home by MR. HAROLD LANSBURG, Upper Shenran Avenue across fro. SIIoke Ridge, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
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2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation implementing the State Environmental Qual ity Review Act and the regulations of the
Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-We can entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 37-90 HAROLD lANSIIIRG, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for
its adoption, seconded by James Hagan:
Provided that the test data, as requested in Mr. Yarmowich's letter of June 13th, be performed, and
a correction should be made to the drawing on file, showing the curve of the driveway, and the applicant
has agreed to a 10 foot accessway on either side of his driveway for fire.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
MR. LANSBURG-I'll provide the Board, when the surveyor comes, with what he gives me for the back.
MR. CAIMANO-Good.
MR. LANSBURG-It'll be stamped, but I have to have it in before he'll do it.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. You can give that to the Planning Department.
MRS. YORK-Just bring me a copy. I'd appreciate that.
AYES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1991 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED SFR-lA JAMES R. I JOANN CURCIO OWNER:
SAME AS ABOVE NORTHWEST INTERSECTION OF TEE HILL ROAD AND HALL ROAD FOR A 3 LOT SUBDIVISION. TAX
MP NO. 48-3-24, 25 LOT SIZE: 3.44 ACRES
LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Subdivision No. 8-1991, James R. & JoAnn Curcio, June 20, 1991,
Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "The request is for a three lot subdivision at the intersection of Tee
Hill Road and Hall Road. It appears from the plan that lot A will be increased to 1.12 acres. This
parcel is already developed. The tax maps indicate that this lot is currently 108 ft. by 150 ft.,
so this addition of property brings the developed lot into closer conformity with the standard of one
acre. The two other lots will be one acre and 1.32 acres respectively. Lot B will have an entrance
onto Tee Hill Road and onto Hall Road. The Highway Department reviewed this driveway and did not have
any concerns about it. The well is shown as being at the eastern corner of the lot. The water will
be piped under the proposed driveway to the house. The water line should be placed so that traffic
going over it will not be a problem. Lot C has a 225 ± driveway from Tee Hill Road. The Board has
expressed concern over driveways of this length in the past. Various fire chiefs have suggested that
to allow for emergency access a cleared area of 10 feet on each side of the driveway be maintained
for emergency access. An agreement of this nature should be clearly stated on the mylar. Since this
lot will ultimately be sold, the Board may also want to request that the applicant make this condition
a deed restriction so that any future owner is fully appraised of this. The proposed 225 ft. driveway
will also be about 25 feet from an existing house (Vitouski). The development could affect this
neighborhood. The Staff reviewed placing the driveway in another location which might be less intrusive
and el iminate
17
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the dog 1 eg curve. Entrance from Hall Road woul d create an even longer driveway. Fl ag lots are not
to be encouraged, however, this piece of property is uniquely shaped. It might be less intrusive on
the neighbor if the driveway for lot C could be moved south. A suggestion that the Board may want
to discuss with the applicant is to modify the northern lot lines of lots A and B so the driveway could
be moved south, and be about 35 feet from the Vitouski house. A small portion of lot B would be cut
out to allow for the 10 foot clearing. This small piece of land could be then replaced by moving the
line on lot A. The driveway would then also have less of a dog leg. The Vitouski residence was placed
close to the lot line, however, it has been there for some time and has enjoyed a rural view. Perhaps
some vegetation could be placed near his property 1 ine as screening. The topography on lot C shows
that there is a 10 foot rise in elevation within ±135 feet. It does not appear that this will be a
significant problem. The applicant has requested waivers from the storm water management report and
the two foot contours. I will let the engineer decide the appropriateness of this request."
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich, Rist-Frost, Town Engineer, June 13, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. The increase in stonnwater runoff is anticipated to be
minimal. The applicant may wish to request a waiver from stormwater management requirements. We would
recommend that a waiver be granted. 2. Regarding Subsurface Disposal a. According to current NYSDOH
Wastewater Treatment Standards - Individual Household Systems, a garbage grinder is equivalent to one
(1) bedroom for septic tank sizing. Other requirements for tank configuration apply when garbage
grinders are used. b. The septic tank sizing for four (4) bedroom and larger units should be corrected
to conform to NYSDOH Standards."
MR. YARMOWICH-An item not indicated in my letter, I would recommend that the Board grant a waiver for
two foot contours because of the land configuration.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you. We also have a letter from Bay Ridge Volunteer Fire Department, dated
June 12, 1991, to Queensbury Planning Board, "Dear Members: After reviewing the plans of the applicant,
I would like to make the following recommendations about the drive-way because of its length. The
drive-way should be at least ten feet wide. It should be maintained so that fire apparatus and ambulance
can use it if needed to provide emergency services to the occupants. Because of the size of fire
apparatus, trees should not grow over the drive-way that might block the road way. A turnaround area
should be considered so that an ambulance could turn around and drive out. I hope these recommendations
will be helpful in the design of this appl ication. Yours truly, Gary A. West, Chief, Bay Ridge Vol.
Fire Company" Mr. Steves.
MR. STEVES-Hi there. I'm Leon Steves from VanDusen and Steves. Tom has pointed out some boiler plate
problems I have in the AutoCad which I have to correct. The 1250 septic tank size and the increase
of the size of the septic tank by one bedroom equivalent, when you would put in a garbage grinder,
that's no problem. The Staff COIIIIIents of the driveway, and I think that Lee is referring to the,
basically, her concerns are on the long driveway, here. We, perhaps, could help that a little bit
by bowing the driveway slightly within the strip so that it hugs the soft line as much as possible,
as it comes by the house. The applicant was here earlier, but had to leave, and he's told me that
he has talked with his neighbor who has no problems whatsoever with this subdivision plan as shown,
but we have no problems, either, in moving the driveway, just putting a bow in it right there, so that
it's as far away from that house as we can get it and still maintain it within that strip.
MR. MARTIN-Would you have any problems with taking Mrs. York's suggestions to the full extent and moving
the boundary line of the lots there, or is that something you'd rather not get into?
MRS. PULVER-Well, they've probably already surveyed it. Didn't you already survey it?
MR. STEVES-Well, nothing's cast. We won't cast anything in concrete until we get a stamp of approval.
Well, really, I guess I have no problem in doing that. I see no reason or improvement of it, if we
can just crowd the side of it.
MRS. YORK-Yes, if you could just maybe show Mr. Steves that little sketch I drew. It's not too
intrusive. It's not a big difference, Leon. See what I'm saying.
MR. MARTIN-She's just saying to move this property line over some.
MR. STEVES-Well. is it necessary to move the property line, Lee, if we just move the driveway as you've
indicated it here?
MRS. YORK-No, but I think if you could. the Fire Chief would like some cleared area on both sides.
I think that's where you would get into trouble.
MR. STEVES-And what is he looking for on each side?
MRS. YORK-About ten feet on each side.
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MR. STEVES-Ten feet on each side?
MRS. YORK-Their concern is if they get an emergency vehicle in there and there's snow banks on either
side, they may have a situation where they have to lay another line in there, which means another truck
passing the first one on a driveway and they need to have that width to get two trucks in there.
MRS. PULVER-I read this as the driveway should be at least ten feet wide, not ten feet on each side.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. They want a ten foot wide driveway and ten foot clear on each side. That's the normal.
That's what they usually request.
MR. CAIMANO-It's not 30 feet.
MR. BREWER-No. It's just got ten feet wide.
MR. CAIMANO-Right.
MRS. PULVER-He's only got ten feet wide.
MR. CAIMANO-The Bay Ridge letter says a ten foot wide driveway.
MRS. PULVER-Yes. That's all that's really required to get a fire truck.
MRS. YORK-Right. I know Mr. West wrote that letter. We've had a couple of letters from Mr. West and
he has suggested ten foot clearing on either side. Whether this was an error in his writing, whether
this is really what he wants, I can't say, but I know the standard has been to clear ten feet on each
side, and Brian LaFlure has requested this Board have a policy on that.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. It's not a 30 foot wide driveway. It's a ten foot wide driveway with vegetative
clearing and ten feet on each side of that.
MRS. YORK-Right. We don't mean for you to pave or anything.
MR. STEVES-Okay. If we did that, we could sti11 maintain a ten foot buffer, then, along the north
1 ine.
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. STEVES-And not move any of the lot lines.
MRS. YORK-Okay. Whatever you can do.
MR. MARTIN-All right. That's fine with me.
MR. STEVES-Is that kind of meeting with your requirement?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes, that fits.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. STEVES-Why don't we do it that way then.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
MRS. PULVER-I still think ten foot wide on each side of the driveway is a little over-kill for clearing.
MR. CAIMANO-I don't know where it says that. I'd like to see a clarification of that.
MR. HAGAN-Carol, it's only on driveways over 100 feet deep.
MR. CARTIER-Yes.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, but I'm still thinking in terms of snow.
MRS. YORK-I will get the letters.
MR. CAIMANO-Yes. Lets clear it up.
MRS. YORK-Okay. I'll get the 1 etters from Bri an LaFl ure out that suggest that thi s Board have a
confirmed policy on it. Okay?
19
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MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Does the Board have any more questions or comments? Okay. I'll open the publ ic hearing.
Is there anyone here who would care to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-If the Board's satisfied that all the matters have been resolved, here, we can do a SEQRA.
MR. CAIMANO-Long Form?
MRS. YORK-Yes.
RESOWTlON WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOWTlON NO. 8-1991, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by James
Hagan:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: a 3 lot subdivision, JAMES
R. I JOANN CURCIO, northwest intersection of Tee Hill Road and Hall Road, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York. this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-Okay. We can entertain a motion that needs to involve waivers from stormwater management,
two foot contours and incorporate the driveway design changes and engineering concerns.
JlJTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1991 JAMES R. I JOANN CURCIO, Introduced by
James Martin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
For a 3 lot subdivision, with the following comments: Number One, that the waiver for stonnwater
management pl an be granted. Number Two, that the waiver from two foot contours be granted. Number
Three, that the engineering comments of the Rist-Frost letter dated June 13th, specifically Items 2a
and 2b, be incorporated into the final plan.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
20
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AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
SUBDIVISION NO. 6-1991 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED SR-lA ß(IŒN SUBDIVISION GARY D. AND SUZANNE
F. BOWEN OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE HILAND DRIVE, BElVEEN HILAND DRIVE AND RIDGE ROAD FOR A 2 LOT
SUBDIVISION. TAX MAP NO. 54-3-10 LOT SIZE: 25 ACRES
LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Subdivision No. 6-1991, Bowen Subdivision, June 20, 1991, Meeting
Date: June 25, 1991 "The applicant has received preliminary stage approval. All environmental concerns
have been addressed through the SEQRA process. There are no outstanding planning concerns. The agent
for the appl icant was requested to indicate the stream corridor setbacks on the final pl an. If that
is done and there are no engineering concerns, I would recommend approval of this subdivision."
MR. CARTIER-Mr. Steves.
MR. STEVES-I have made the changes, as I told Tom I would, on the plan, and I haven't re-submitted
anything to you, but rather I am displaying that, and it's hardly noticeable, is it.
MR. CARTIER-You do have the stream setbacks done?
MR. STEVES-Yes, I do.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you.
MR. CAIMANO-No. engineering concerns?
MR. CARTIER-They were addressed at Prelim. Does anybody else have any questions or comments? If not,
we can entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-1991 BOWEN SUBDIVISION, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano
who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
For a 2 lot subdivision.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 38-91 TYPE: UNLISTED SR-lA JOAN M. LEE OIlIER: SAME AS ABOVE CORNER OF SHERMAN
AVENUE AND LEO STREET TO ENLARGE HOME BY ADDING ONE BEDROOM. TAX MP NO. 120-1-50 LOT SIZE: 0.162±
ACRES SECTION 4.02D-G
JOAN AND JEFF LEE, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 38-91, Joan M. Lee, June 24, 1991, Meeting Date:
June 25, 1991 "The appl icant wants to enlarge a nonconforming structure. The residence is on Leo
Street in a SR-IA zone. The 22 ft. by 12 ft. proposed addition will be 5 ft. and 6 in. from the neighbor
to the east and property 1 ine. A variance has been obtained to allow this. This appl ication was
reviewed with the criteria for site plans. 1. All of the units in this area are located on small
lots. This addition is generally compatible with the character of the neighborhood. 2. Vehicular
traffic is not a problem. 3. Off street parking and loading is not a concern. 4. Pedestrian access
is not a concern. 5. The applicant has stated that drainage has not been a problem. The Board may
wish to hear this directly from the applicant. 6. The house is on Town water. Mr. Hatin has a letter
concerning the septic system. 7. Plantings are not an issue. 8. Fire access is adequate. 9. Erosion
control standards should be utilized during construction."
MR. CARTIER-And there were no engineering concerns on this, correct?
MRS. YORK-Correct.
MR. CARTIER-Okay, and we have a letter from Dave Hatin, Director of Building and Codes, dated June
13, 1991, "This memo is in relationship to the addition of a bedroom of Joan Lee into her current
dwelling. As I understand it, she currently has a 1,000 gallon tank with a six foot drywell, unknown
whether
21
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this is six feet in diameter or depth. This would not be in conformance with today's standards for
a new two bedroom house whi ch woul d requi re at 1 east two 6 by 8 pits or one 8 by 10 seepage pi t.
However, there are no requirements in the Sanitary Sewage Ordinance for a person adding a bedroom to
upgrade their septic system as long as it is not fail ing and is currently working properly. I trust
that this will answer any concerns you have." Is the septic system functioning at present?
MR. LEE-Yes.
MRS. LEE-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. HAGAN-Is that pretty sandy down there?
MR. LEE-Yes, it's all sand.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. It's all, high perc'd stuff.
MR. LEE-Nothing but sand, yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Would you care to comment? I need to get you on the record with your name and that
comment.
MR. LEE-I'm Jeff Lee.
MRS. LEE-I'm Joan.
MR. CARTIER-Okay, and you're representing to us that that septic system is fully functioning?
MR. LEE-Yes. We've been there ever since the place was new and we've never had any problem with it.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. How many bedrooms are there now? How many people are living in the house right
now?
MR. LEE-There's four of us.
MR. CARTIER-Four? Okay. Does the Board have any questions or comments?
MR. MARTIN-I'd just like to say, I think Lee York's Coment Number One is especially appropriate in
this case. I know we're pressing things here. They al ready have a variance and, having been there,
I think that's a good comment, that this is an appearance that would be compatible with the existing
neighborhood there.
MR. CAIMANO-Right.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Anybody else? I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone here who would care
to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-We need to entertain, I believe, a Short Form SEQRA on this.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MlU}E
RESOWTION NO. 38-91, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by James
Martin:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an appl ication for: JOAN M. LEE, to enlarge
home by adding one bedroa., corner of Sherman Avenue and Leo Street, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
sUbject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
22
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board wi11 have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-We can entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 38-91 JOAN M. LEE, Introduced by James Martin who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Nicholas Caimano:
To enlarge a home by adding one bedroom.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1991 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED MR-5 FERGUSON SUBDIVISION ROBERT E. SHARP,
D.D.S., D.M.D. OWNER: NORMAN C. FERGUSON WEST SIDE OF BAY ROAD, OPPOSITE ACC FOR A 2 LOT SUBDIVISION.
TAX MAP NO. 60-7-4.1 LOT SIZE: 1.63 ACRES
RUSSELL SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Subdivision No. 7-1991, Ferguson Subdivision, June 21, 1991,
Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "The request is to divide property along Bay Road into two lots. The
applicant intends to construct a roadway on the subdivided parcel. The development would take place
on a lot to the rear which is currently owned by Mr. Grahl. There is currently an appeal of the Zoning
Administrator's decision regarding the Grahl property. I recommend that the Board take no action on
this subdivision until the appeal has been settled."
MR. CARTIER-Let me do this a little bit out of order. This was advertised, was it not?
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay, for public hearing. Is there anyone here who would care to comment on this
application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARTIER-Mr. Scudder, would you care to address the Board, please. I'll leave the publ ic hearing
open on this, anyway. I believe you are familiar with the letters that have been traveling back and
forth between myself and the Zoning Board and hither and yon.
MR. SCUDDER-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-I guess, at this point, we're wondering where we stand.
MR. CARTIER-Well, I bel ieve, tomorrow night the appeal goes to the Zoning Board, so we should have
a resolution of this by tomorrow night.
23
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MR. SCUDDER-Okay. Can we discuss anything tonight, or shall we?
MR. CARTIER-Well, what's the Board's druthers? We can certainly give you engineering comments. You
understand the nature of the appeal and the situation?
MR. SCUDDER-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-It's not that this thing is never going to get approved. It's just the process by which
it has to go through. I think it would be to your advantage to get engineering comments and any other
comnents that the Board may have. Tom, do you want to take us through your comments, please.
ENGINEER. REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich, Rist-Frost, Town Engineer, June 13, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. The design of the 52" diameter culvert crossing Old Maids'
Brook should be provided indicating inverts and slopes demonstrated to function adequately under
anticipated stream flow conditions. Details should include inlet and outlet stabilization of the
culvert. A scale cross section of the stream crossing proposed should be provided. 2. The 100 year
floodplain for Old Maids' Brook should be plotted on the drawing. 3. All proposed grading contours
between Old Maids' Brook and Bay Road should be corrected to properly tie into existing contours.
4. Because the proposed driveway culvert is to be located in the Warren County Bay Road Right-of-Way,
the appl icant shoul d obtain Warren County D. P. W. approval for the proposed cul vert. 5. Percol ati on
tests with test pit data should be provided in order to evaluate the suitability of proposed lot 2
for subsurface sewage disposal in the event the applicant is unable to obtain additional lands."
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you. Would the Board care to comment? We are in a nether world, here, until,
basically, tomorrow night. Would you agree to table this until we get this resolved?
MR. SCUDDER-That's fine. If I could just respond to these?
MR. CARTIER-Certainly. Go right ahead.
MR. SCUDDER-No trouble with 1, 2, or 3. Number Four I should cOßll1ent that the approval from Warren
County D.P.W. has been received. It's contingent upon receiving the Stream Disturbance Permit from
the DEC, which we've also applied for. That's up at Tom Hall's office, Regulatory Affairs, in
Warrensburg. Number Five concerns me a little bit.
MR. YARMOWICH-Well, the intent there is to ensure that this Board, or to advise this Board that they
may be creating or allowing a subdivision to occur which would, in fact, record a lot that could possibly
be unusable in the event on site subsurface sewage disposal was not feasible. I'm advising the Board
that in the event that a suitable location couldn't be found with appropriate distances and separations
from the Old Maids' Brook as well as property lines, because of the limited land available, that they
may want to consider this in the approval. It's usually, well, it's not permissible under the Town
Codes and Ordinances to subdivide land that can't be used as such.
MR. SCUDDER-Right. Okay.
MR. CARTlER-I think that may helped by, if it's resolved tomorrow night such that you do have to go
through the subdivision process, that'll be addressed at that point.
MR. SCUDDER-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-And we'll find out then.
MR. SCUDDER-With me is Dr. Sharp who is buying both pieces of property. That's his intent, and I think
I can speak for him in saying that if he does not get the subdivision approval on the second lot, that
the first lot issued will also fall by the way side. So they're a combined deal in that sense, anyway.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. I hope, Dr. Sharp, you understand that this is as much for your protection as it
is anything else.
ROBERT SHARP
DR. SHARP-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-This is not just a bureaucratic procedure, here. There are some concerns about putting
you in a very difficult situation.
DR. SHARP-Yes. I just wish we'd known four months ago that we had to go through subdivision.
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MRS. PULVER-I have a question. The Ferguson Subdivision, that is going through our normal procedures
for subdivision, right?
MR. CARTIER-Correct.
MRS. PULVER-So, what we're looking at is the Grahl part that really, whether or not it should also
go through the normal channels.
MR. CARTIER-That's the issue, correct.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-And we certainly don't want to go through a subdivision on the first piece if he can't
get the second piece behind.
MR. SCUDDER-That's right.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Does the Board have any other questions or comments? Well, the applicant has agreed
to table this until we get this issue resolved tomorrow night. Lee, maybe Thursday you could contact
Mr. Scudder and let him know the outcome of that.
MRS. YORK-He'll be there.
MR. SCUDDER-I will not be there, myself, but I believe Dr. Sharp's attorney will be at the ZBA tomorrow
night.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MR. SCUDDER-I would ask, if it's possible, how can we determine where we will be on the agenda next
time? Dr. Sharp's concerned about that.
MR. CARTIER-Before this Board, you mean?
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, assuming we, I don't know what the options are. If the ZBA, tomorrow, lets say turns
down this appeal, is it dead at that point?
MR. CARTIER-Well, no. It's not a question of turning it down. They're going to decide one way or
the other.
MR. SCUDDER-And they are referring their decision to you for ultimate?
MR. CARTIER-No. What will happen is they're either going to decide that Pat Crayford was correct in
her first determination. or they're going to decide that the Grahl property has to go through the
subdivision process.
MR. SCUDDER-I see.
MR. CARTIER-Now, if it has to go through the subdivision process, then you institute a subdivision
application for that piece of property also. Deadline for the July meeting is when?
MRS. YORK-Tomorrow at 2 o'clock.
MR. SCUDDER-You see, we have this dilemma.
MR. CARTIER-Well, considering that this is partially an internal problem, would this Board be amenable
to waiving deadline on this application?
MR. HAGAN-I don't think we have a choice. I think we have to.
MR. MARTIN-I think that's fair.
MR. CAIMANO-It's the only fair thing to do. Actually put them on the agenda as if they're going to
be on, and the only way they can get off is if there's a negative.
MRS. YORK-Well, this subdivision will be tabled. I think what you're speaking to is what if Mr. Grahl
has to submit something to subdivide his property?
MR. SCUDDER-We've talked about this a little bit. It's my belief that the work that needs to be done
for Mr. Grahl's property can be expedited, can be completed assuming we can get the equipment in to
do the subsurface work within the next week or so, and that would give us a little time to get things
in to the Planning Department so everyone could see them ahead of time, but I'm a little reluctant
to commit to that because there are things beyond my control. Obviously, I'm not going to go out there
and dig holes by hand.
25
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t<;R. CARTlER-I think what we can do, maybe, is establish, Lee, if you are amenable to this, establish
a deadline date and include them on the July 16 agenda?
MRS. YORK-Sure. I would have no problem with that.
MR. CARTIER-Well, you're going to be reviewing a subdivision, here. How much time do you need, and
Tom?
MRS. YORK-Well, I would want to have it in as soon as possible, probably by next Tuesday. Can you
do that?
MR. SCUDDER-A week from today?
MRS. YORK-A week from today.
MR. SCUDDER-Okay. We'll endeavor to do that. If I run into some difficulties, may I call you?
MRS. YORK-You can call me.
MR. SCUDDER-I think that the surveying work that is needed is largely done already.
MR. CARTIER-Understand this. Maybe this will help. We're going to establish a deadline date by motion
tonight.
MR. SCUDDER-Fair enough.
MR. CARTIER-And if you don't make that deadline date, it's a washout.
MR. SCUDDER-I'd push for Friday, under those circumstances, if I could.
MRS. YORK-Right. I have Staff Review, at which time all the Department Heads get together and review
the project.
MR. SCUDDER-Is that Wednesday?
MRS. YORK-So, that's why I'm asking you to have it in by Tuesday.
MR. SCUDDER-All right.
MR. MARTIN-So, say Tuesday at the close of your office?
MRS. YORK-Please, make it before that.
MR. CARTIER-Well, don't we usually use 2 o'clock?
MR. SCUDDER-Two o'clock, that's fine.
MR. CARTIER-Two o'clock Tuesday, July 2nd.
MR. SCUDDER-We have a different owner involved, also.
MRS. YORK-He would have to submit under his own name, or through an agent.
MR. SCUDDER-Right, and so there's a little, I'm nervous about the time and just getting in touch with
him. He's in New Jersey getting his authorization back and so on.
MRS. PULVER-He can fax it to you.
MR. SCUDDER-Fine, if you'll accept fax.
MRS. YORK-It's considered a legal document.
MS. CORPUS-Well, it's not. You'd have to follow up with an original signature.
MR. CARTIER-The second scenario is that the Zoning Board agrees with Pat Crayford and you just come
back in with what you have.
MR. SCUDDER-I see, okay.
MR. CARTIER-Don't bet any money on that, though.
MR. SCUDDER-Okay. I'm not.
26
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MR. HAGAN-The appeal may be thrown out and you won't have to go through any of this.
MRS. PULVER-If the Zoning Board agrees with the Zoning Administrator's determination tomorrow night,
then they will be put on the next agenda?
MR. CARTIER-Correct.
MR. MARTIN-Either way, they will be.
MR. CARTIER-Either way, they will be.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, but I mean they will be put on for this?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. CARTIER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-As is currently configured.
MRS. PULVER-Now, will they also be put on for this, this is Preliminary now. Are they going to be
put back on for Preliminary?
MR. CARTIER-Yes, because we will not have reviewed it.
MRS. PULVER-We're reviewing it right now.
MR. CAIMANO-No, we're not.
MR. CARTIER-No, we're not. We'vé got to find out what the Zoning Board's going to do tomorrow night.
MR. SCUDDER-Mr. Cartier, are you able to interpret the two lot subdivision rule to me?
MR. CARTIER-With a two lot subdivision, you don't have to go through Sketch Plan. Instead of a three
step process, it's just two.
MR. SCUDDER-It's just two. I see.
MR. CARTIER-You would come in for Prel iminary approval and then Final. Now, what you can do, and do
not in any way assume that there's a guarantee here or anything, but you can come in for Preliminary
the first meeting of the month, then Final the second meeting of the month. Sometimes that works.
Sometimes it doesn't. If you have all your ducks in a row at Preliminary, you don't have a problem
at Final.
MR. SCUDDER-I see.
MR. CARTIER-That's a possibility, but there are some serious concerns with this back piece of property,
in terms of wastewater and so on that are going to have to be very carefully addressed.
MRS. YORK-Also, we're going to want your DEC permit, too.
MR. SCUDDER-You mean before a Final approval is granted?
MR. CARTIER-Yes, that's what Final means.
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. SCUDDER-Yes, I think, time wise, we should be in pretty good shape. We applied for that about
a month ago, now. Sixty days is the norm and we should be in pretty good shape.
MR. CARTIER-Aren't they under time constraints 1 ike we are? They have to issue something within a
certain time? Okay. Any other questions? Does anybody else care to comment?
tllTlON TO TABLE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1991 FERGUSON SUBDIVISIOIf, Introduced by James
Martin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Nicholas Caimano:
For a 2 lot subdivision, pending the outcome of the Planning Board's appeal to the Zoning Board of
Appeals. Should the ZBA determine that a formal subdivision application is necessary, the submission
deadline for a subdivision application regarding this project will be Tuesday, July 2nd, at 2 p.m.
to the Planning Office.
27
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---.../
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. SCUDDER-One comment just popped into my head as you were tal king. Assuming the ZBA wants to go
through subdivision, will that come in under New Business and this under Old, or will they both be
New or how will that work?
MR. CARTIER-Which Board are you talking about, here?
MR. SCUDDER-It will come back to the Planning Board, ultimately.
MR. CARTIER-I would assume it would come in as.
MRS. PULVER-One would be new and one would be old.
MR. CARTIER-Yes.
MRS. PULVER-Grahl would be New.
MRS. YORK-This will be tabled under Old, and then that would be considered new business, a Grahl
subdivision.
MR. CARTIER-That's kind of strange.
MRS. YORK-It's a new subdivision.
MS. CORPUS-Yes, it's new. It's a totally different owner.
MRS. YORK-We can just place them back to back on an agenda.
MR. CAIMANO-It doesn't make any difference.
MR. MARTIN-I don't think it makes any difference.
MR. CARTIER-Well, wait a minute. I kind of understand, what I'm hearing, here, is maybe the Grahl
thing ought to go first.
MRS. YORK-I see what you're saying.
MR. CARTIER-That's going to be the big issue.
MRS. YORK-Right.
MS. CORPUS-He could consent to have the Ferguson subdivision at the end of the meeting with the other.
MR. CAIMANO-Put this one on the Old Business. We'll agree to move it to the end of the agenda. Go
through the Grahl, and then we'll get to it at the end of the agenda.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Why don't we make the whole thing part of New Business, one item of New Business.
MRS. YORK-Okay. Would you like that?
MR. CAIMANO-That's fine with me, too.
MR. CARTIER-It'll be two subdivision applications under New Business, okay, and we'll do the Grahl
one first, and the Ferguson one second. How's that?
MR. SCUDDER-Thank you. Very good.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you very much.
OFF PREMISES SIGN PERMIT NO. 3-91 TYPE II J A P AUTO FIX 15 MILLER HILL (OFF ROOTE 9) OWNER OF
LOT: CHARLES ÞlJORE TO PLACE AN OFF PREMISES SIGN LOCATED AT 15 MILLER HILL (OFF ROOTE 9) IN ~EENSBURY.
TIM HOOD, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
28
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Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Off Premises Sign No. 3-91, J A P Auto Fix, June 24, 1991,
Meeting Date: June 25, 1991 "The placement of this conforming sign does not appear to impact traffic
visibility on Route 9. This is a commercial area and the property owner has agreed to the placement
on his residential lot."
MR. CARTIER-Okay, and we have a letter from Warren County Planning indicating "No County Impact".
Is this scheduled for public hearing?
MRS. YORK-Yes, it should be.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. I thought so. Let me open the public hearing. Is there anybody here who would care
to comment on this?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COÞlENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. LAPOINT-How tall is this, off the ground?
MR. HOOD-Tim Hood. I'm the Service Manager. We don't really quite, as yet, know an actual height.
I mean, is there any restrictions that we need to put the sign at?
MRS. PULVER-You have to come in and get a Sign Permit.
MRS. YORK-Yes. You have to be in conformance. We do have an existing Sign Ordinance, which details
how large your sign can be.
MR. HOOD-Right. It's already actually made.
MR. LAPOINT-It's 5 by 2, but I was just curious as to where it's going to be on the horizon.
MR. MARTIN-What are the height of the poles?
MR. LAPOINT-The height of the poles.
MR. HOOD-Right. Well, quite honestly, I don't have any poles, as of yet. I mean, whatever the
restrictions are, I certainly will conform to that.
MR. CARTIER-I think your concern is site view on that corner, right?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. Again, I read Lee's comment and I came out of that road and it seems to me the height
of that would put it right on the horizon of that rise coming up Miller Hill.
MR. BREWER-I think we looked at the, there's two poles on that corner right there. I looked at it
again tOday, and I think that's the wrong place where we looked at it. Because if you look at the
map, here, it shows it further down by the motorcycle shop. The one we were looking at is right here
on the corner of Montray Road.
MRS. PULVER-Montray, right.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. If that's the case.
MR. BREWER-It would be down under the hill further, right there.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. Okay, then, I guess the height doesn't make that much difference as long as we're
within the Ordinance.
MR. MARTIN-Well, yes, as long as he conforms with the Ordinance, he should be all set.
MR. HOOD-And also, given the latitude from Mr. Moore, there, I really don't have any, I put that extra.
I actually drew that on myself. It's certainly not really specific.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. I made a mistake. I assumed it was right on the corner of Montray Road and that
would have been a problem. I was wrong.
MR. HOOD-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Does anybody else have a question or a comment? This is a Type II. We need not do a SEQRA
on it. I have to ask this. In some places, the term Jap is considered a derogatory term. You've
heard this before, I take it?
29
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MR. HOOD-Yes, unfortunately, I have. Not from too many people, but I've addressed it before. JAP
is strictly an abbreviation. That's why we have the period after the letter P. I, myself, am from
south Florida, and we have a store also down there in Hollywood in which we have received really no
complaints whatsoever as to the name.
MR. CARTIER-It's an abbreviation of what?
MR. HOOD-Japanese. It's strictly Japanese Auto Fix. We answer the phones, Japanese Auto Fix.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. You've satisfied my curiosity. Thank you. A motion, please.
MOTION TO APPROVE OFF PREMISES SIGN NO. ~91 J A P AUTO FIX, Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved
for its adoption, seconded by James Martin:
To place an Off Premises Sign located at 15 Miller Hill Road.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
MR. CARTIER-Do you want to say something about Ed's concern about site view?
MR. CAIMANO-He withdrew it.
MR. LAPOINT-As long as it's in conformance with the Ordinance.
MR. HOOD-Yes, we certainly will assure that, you know, I mean, really there's no exact position where
we plan on placing the sign. Certainly, it will be placed in an area where it won't interfere,
whatsoever, with any view.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you very much.
AYES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. HOOD-One quick question. When you say 15 feet, is that off the edge of the road?
MR. LAPOINT-Check with the Building Inspector.
MR. CAIMANO-You've got to go to the Building Department and get a Sign Permit. They'll answer the
questions.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, and they'll tell you exactly.
MR. HOOD-Okay, but this is, in fact, an application for a Sign Permit, right?
MRS. PULVER-No, it's not.
MR. CAIMANO-No.
MR. HOOD-No?
MR. LAPOINT-It's an Off Premises Sign that we have to review as part of our Ordinance, that you're
putting a sign off your premises. We've just given you approval from all of your SEQRA aspects and
that type of thing. You have to get the Permit from the Building Inspector.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. You ought to go the Building Inspector's office tomorrow morning.
MR. HOOD-Will there be a permit actually there waiting?
MRS. PULVER-No. You go down and make out an application and it's, what, $25 and they will say, now
you have to be so many feet from the road, so many feet. You can only be so high, so whatever.
MR. HOOD-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-And so you adjust it within that area.
MR. HOOD-Okay, and that Building Inspector is right at this building here?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. He's right next door, in the building next door in the basement.
MR. HOOD-Okay. Any idea how long it will take?
30
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MR. MARTIN-You should get it on site, that day. Pay your fee. Fill out the permit, and you're all
set.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes, but he's going to want to know how high it is.
MR. HOOD-Right now, yes, certainly. I just had heard from Mrs. Crayford that upon approval from you
folks that within the next day I could actually put the sign up. So I wanted to make sure there wasn't
anything more.
MRS. PULVER-No. You need to go get your permit.
MR. MARTIN-Well, you need to go to see him. Then you can put the sign up.
MR. HOOD-Okay. Great. Thank you.
MRS. PULVER-I have one question, and this happened to bring it to my mind. When you are changing,
going from one use to another use, but it is the same use, but a different owner, do you need to have
site plan for that?
MR. CARTIER-No, as long as it's not a change in use.
MRS. PULVER-So if you went from a rib house to a breakfast house, but it's a new owner, but it's still
a restaurant.
MR. CARTIER-You wouldn't have to come for site plan.
MRS. PULVER-You don't have to go for site plan.
SITE PLAN NO. 39-91 TYPE: UNLISTED CR-15 EUGENE ZIELINSKI (lINER: SAJŒ AS ABOVE 73 MAIN STREET,
4TH HOOSE EAST OF PINE STREET 01 NORTH SIDE OF MAIN STREET FOR CHANGE OF USE FROM RESIDENTIAL TO/FOR
PROFESSIONAL OFFICE. (WARREN CooNTY PLAMING) TAX MAP NO. 130-1-27 LOT SIZE: 0.7 ACRES SECTION
4.020-L
JIM PEPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 39-91, Eugene Zielinski, June 24, 1991, Meeting
Date: June 25, 1991 "The requested review is for a change of use in a CR-15 zone. The use is a
residence and the proposal is for conversion to a professional Real-Estate office. This change of
use fits the purpose of the zone which is to allow transitioning from residential to Highway Commercial
uses on narrow arterial roads. The applicant intends to remove a pool, garage, and concrete terrace.
This would be replaced with 14 parking spaces. This appl ication was reviewed with regard to Section
179-39 (formerly 5.070). 1. The location, arrangement, and design of the structure fit in with the
character of the neighborhood. Lighting should be of such intensity and be directed so it does not
interfere with the residential uses around it. Also, that it does not cause a problem for motorists.
Any signage should conform to the Town of Queensbury Sign Ordinance. 2. Vehicular traffic access is
adequate, although adding any traffic to this road is a concern. 3. Off street parking appears to
be adequate, however, handicapped parking has to be identified and placed appropriately. 4. Pedestrian
circulation is not a concern. 5. The engineer will coment on adequacy of stonnwater drainage
facil ities. 6. The structure is on Town water. The engineer will comment on the adequacy of the
septic system. 7. The applicant indicates that shrubbery will be placed on either side as screening.
This should be of such height and width that it does in fact screen the adjacent residential uses.
8. Fire access is adequate. 9. The engineer will comment if stonnwater facilities are necessary."
MR. CARTIER-Thank you. Tom.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich, Rist-Frost, Town Engineer, June 14, 1991 "We have reviewed the project and
have the following engineering comments: 1. The applicant proposes to continue the use of the existing
subsurface sewage disposal system most recentlY serving a residential use. Proposed sewage flows are
probably less than those from use of the existing residence. Because flow to the existing sewage
disposal system from a proposed office use will remain of domestic sanitary composition, and will be
at a lower flow, no modifications are necessary. 2. An increase in stonnwater is anticipated from
the gravel area. The applicant should be required to provide a design for a gravel parking area sloped
to a drywell separated at least 50 feet from the existing septic system seepage pits and sized to
accommodate the increase in runoff."
MR. CARTIER-We have a comment from Warren County Planning Board, approval with the stipulation that
the garage be removed as depicted.
31
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'-'
MR. PEPPER-I'm Jim Pepper. I'm an architect, but I'm here in a dual capacity, really, because I'm
also a realtor. I'm the broker/owner of Caldwell Banker King George Realty in Bolton Landing and it
will be a real estate office. I will be renting it from the Zielinskis.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Thank you.
Let me open the public hearing.
Does the Board have any questions or comments on this application?
Is there anybody here who would care to comment?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. CARTIER-We have a couple of letters, here, from a Mrs. Bernard Dingman. Let me read the letter.
"Dear Sirs: In today's mail I received a notice from a Planning Board for the Town of Queensbury.
As I am not in the best of health, I am unable to attend the meeting on June 25th. As this notice
is about putting another real estate office at 73 Main Street, as I already have one real estate next
to me, Woodland Real Estate, 79 or 77 Main, I am very curious how this will effect my property as I
have 1 ived in this house for 53 years come June 26th, 1991. It certainly will not be the same. When
the lady from the Woodland once asked me if I would sell my house I answered no. She is a wonderful
neighbor. I like her very much. I don't expect to be pressured by another real estate to sell my
home. I'm very much aware that this is a very busy road from probably about 12 to 4 and it's 50 cars
in 15 minutes. I counted them. Sometimes I get the impression that some people don't care for the
elderly, as long as they can do their thing. I will sell my home when I deem it necessary. I hope
that you will please let me know about my question as soon as it's convenient. If you care to reach
me by phone, you can call 792-5514. Sincerely yours, Mrs. Bernard Dingman" I'm very curious as to
how this will affect my property, would you care to address that?
MR. PEPPER-When you said Mrs. Bernard, I wasn't familiar. I think it's Devenoux. She's the neighbor
to the west. A very nice lady. I only met her once. I can promise that we won't ask her to sell
her house. I have no idea what, she did mention that Mrs. Goodwin from Woodland Real Estate had asked
her about selling her house. That's obviously not our interest at this point.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. I assume that your going to landscape the place. You're going to paint the building.
You're going to tear the garage down. I would guess it's going to end up looking better than it does
at present. Correct?
MR. PEPPER-It certainly will, yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. That may address or allay any concerns she may have. We also have an indication
of a phone call June 24th between Sue Davidson in the Planning Department and Robert Charlotte Smith
of 71 Main Street regarding this application. 71 Main Street resident states that he has no problem
if a real estate office is going in.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. CARTIER-Does the Board have any questions or comments?
MR. PEPPER-On the Preliminary site plan that was drawn, I had indicated that the pool would be removed
and that was my intention. The only question that I have is that the bank, there's a mortgage on the
property and the bank actually may consider that as having some value. I took a second look at the
garage, that's no problem. The garage is virtually worthless. I would like to know if that has to
be removed, because if not, I think, just to pacify the bank, I may wish to move the parking area a
little further to the north. The pool is fenced. It's proper. It's legal. It's protected.
MR. CARTIER-Well, the only thing I can go on is we went through this with an application not too long
ago.
MR. MARTIN-Is this an above ground pool?
MR. PEPPER-No. It's an in-ground pool.
MR. CARTIER-And we thought of it as an attractive nuisance and considering that there was going to
be business people on the property, it might be in your best, other people going into this property
for business, it might be in your best legal interest to fill that pool in, and that's what we've done
on that one. I don't know what the Board wants to do here.
MRS. PULVER-However, it's not mandatory, part of our Ordinance. How tall is the fence?
MR. PEPPER-It's four feet. It's the proper enclosure around the pool. In fact, Mr. Zielinski is an
insurance agent. He owns an insurance brokerage firm, and I asked him about that and he seemed to
indicate a preference for not filling it in and I have done the site plan work prior to that, just
making the assumption that the pool wasn't necessary, wasn't part of it, and he indicates that the
1 iabil ity situation isn't anything unusual and as far as 1'm concerned, if I were the owner of the
property, I would get rid of the pool.
32
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MR. CARTIER-Yes, well, the thing is if it's a residence, there's somebody there in the evening, at
night and so on. With a business where it closes at 5, 6, or 7 at night, that thing can become an
attractive nuisance to kids in the neighborhood, especially if there's nobody occupying the building
in the evenings.
MR. PEPPER-I agree. Well, there will be lights, outdoor lighting that could be kept on low.
MRS. PULVER-But there are other things. They don't need to uncover it either.
MR. PEPPER-That's true, too.
MR. CAIMANO-They don't need to put the water in it either.
MRS. PULVER-Right. I mean, they can still have the pool and not have to actually get rid of it.
MR. CARTIER-Well, I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other, but it seems to me, I hear you
saying, it's your preference to fill it in. It's certainly mine.
MR. MARTIN-It's certainly mine. I have a strong preference for that.
MR. CARTIER-What's to stop us from doing that?
MR. PEPPER-The only thing is that the bank having granted a mortgage on it. they should have assigned
some value. We would need a release from the bank, which brings another party into it. It would be
much the same as tearing off a wing of a building. You're depreciating the value of the bank's
collateral.
MR. CARTIER-Yes, but what's the value of the property, if it's a commercial property that has an unused
swimming pool on it.
MR. MARTIN-I think if we're going to make the change of use. here, it's got to be complete and thorough.
We just can't have this.
MR. CAIMANO-I don't like to see him making a change in the application.
MR. CARTIER-So what are you saying? I don't understand.
MR. MARTIN-He's saying that it's depicted, in the plan that was submitted, as being removed.
MR. CAIMANO-Don't change the application because all that's going to do is cause us trouble down the
road.
MR. PEPPER-All right. Lets do this, if you will, go along with it as being removed and just grant
me opportunity if for some reason the bank really locks us in.
MR. CARTIER-Sure.
MR. CAIMANO-That's not a problem.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 39-91, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by Edward
LaPoint:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: change of use fro. residential
to/for professional office by EUGENE ZIELINSKI, 73 Main, 4th house east of Pine Street on north side
of Main Street, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
33
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3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-We can entertain a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 39-91 EUGENE ZIELINSKI, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
For a change of use from residential to/for professional office, taking into account all of the notations
on Lee York's memo of the 24th, and include Mr. Yarmowich's letter of June 14th, and that the applicant
submit an acceptable design by July 15th.
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-We have a number of other items to go through. The guy who was not here last week, Mr.
Betit, his agent, Mr. Potenza, called me Saturday and wanted to get on tonight's agenda and I said
we had kind of a loaded agenda. He's going to be on July 16 agenda.
MRS. PULVER-Why was he not here? Did he say?
MR. CARTIER-He said that Mr. Betit tol d him he had to get three approval s. He had three approval s
and thought he was all done. I don't what his three approvals were. Warren County's one. I don't
know what else, but he'll be here the 16th. Okay. Zoning Administrator Checklist. You are in receipt
of a letter from Pat Crayford in regard to not using it. She didn't want to use it because it was
revi sed. You shoul d have in hand a revi sed checkl i st. What is the Board's druthers? Do you want
to requi re, do you want to make a resol uti on to the effect that we want her to use that revi sed
checklist?
MR. LAPOINT-If this is the one that we've finally settled on.
MR. CARTIER-Does it have the PUD on the bottom of the back?
MR. LAPOINT-PUD. Yes, it does.
MR. CARTIER-Yes, okay. So that's it. All we did was add some things. Paul had brought some concerns
up about things that ought to be on there and we added those and that's it.
(END OF FIRST DISK)
34
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MR. HAGAN-So, we're talking about Zoning Administrator Form 62591.
MR. CARTIER-It has a number now? Great.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes, right here.
MR. CAIMANO-Lee just handed it to us.
MR. HAGAN-That's what we're talking about?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. HAGAN-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Does this Board wish to have her use that revised form?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-And include it as part of the application package?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Then we need a resolution to that effect.
MOTION THAT WE REQUIRE THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR COMPLETE CHECKLIST FORM NUMBER ZA/62591. THAT ALL
OTHER PROFESSIONALS IN THIS PROCESS ARE RE~IRED TO REDUCE THEIR DECISIONS TO WRITING AND IT CERTAINLY
SEEMS THAT THE KEY PERSON III THIS SYSTEM SIDILD ALSO REDUCE HER/HIS DECISIONS TO WRITING, Introduced
by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by James Hagan:
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-Lee, would you make a copy of that resolution and forward it to Pat, along with a copy
of the Checklist? Thank you. You've got a whole pile of changes in the Ordinance, okay. Does anybody
have any interest in having a Workshop Session to go through those?
MR. LAPOINT-The stuff we just received, tonight, from Karla?
MS. CORPUS-Okay. There was a delivery made to the Board, I think it was Friday, of a 17 page packet.
I just gave you another Page 6 to replace the old Page 6. Okay. There were some additional changes
made there and I explained them in the little memo. This is due to go before the Town Board for a
public hearing July 30th, at 6:30. This Board has requested, there's two requests, actually, is to
review and make any comments that this Board would like to have presented to the Town Board. Also,
regarding SEQRA, whether to adopt a resolution either at this meeting or at the first July meeting,
regarding SEQRA, whether this Board would consent to the Town Board being designated Lead Agent.
MR. CAIMANO-Wait. Are we doing two things, then?
MS. CORPUS-You don't have to do them now. I t's just those are the two concerns and the two thi ngs
that have to be done.
MR. CAIMANO-I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that on this proposed amendment, all these proposed
amendments, I would suggest that you designate a committee of one or two people to simply read that,
go through it, whoever might want to volunteer to do that. That way he or she or both can report back.
That's my recommendation.
MR. .CARTIER-Okay. Does anybody else care to comment?
MR. LAPOINT-Sounds like a good idea to me.
MR. HAGAN-I think it behooves us all to do it and get comment.
MR. CAlMANO-Well, you can read it, but I think we should have someone.
MR. CARTIER-Are you saying that you will be satisfied with whatever comments these two people care
to make to the Town Board regarding those, or do you want them to come back?
MR. CAIMANO-Come back to us.
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MR. LAPOINT-And provide us a synopsis.
MR. MARTIN-I will volunteer to be on that committee.
MR. CARTIER-I'll get together with you. Now, do you want to take care of the Lead Agency Status on
that right now, while we're at it?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Well, we need a motion to provide the Town Board with Lead Agency Status for the
changes in the Ordinance. Does somebody care to make that motion?
MS. CORPUS-It would be to consent to the Town Board being designated Lead Agency.
MOTION TO HAVE THE TOWN BOARD DESIGNATED LEAD AGENCY FOR THE CHANGES IN THE zmtlNG ORDINANCE, Introduced
by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption, seconded by James Martin:
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Cartier
NOES: NONE
MR. CARTIER-Okay. That's approved. The ZBA, tomorrow night, is dealing with our appeal and I hope
as many members of the Board could be there as possible.
MR. MARTIN-I just have a question, Karla. Who drafted this language on the club and restaurants and
taverns and bars? It is in exact, direct conflict with recommendations of this Board?
MS. CORPUS-I don't know. I think it was a concerted effort between Town Board and I know that there
was input from Planning and Zoning and Building and Codes.
MR. MARTIN-I'm glad the issue on those areas was raised so they could make the exact opposite.
MS. CORPUS-I have one more item. As you know, the Draft EIS for the roller coaster has been submitted.
Lee York will not be involved in the review procedure. I don't know if the Board is aware of this,
but she will not be involved. She will be a private citizen, and so as someone to review this, the
Town Board already has adopted a resolution for John Goralski to be retained in that capacity to review
the Draft EIS for completeness and other things and I didn't know if the Board knew that?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MS. CORPUS-And the first thing that would have to be done under the SEQRA Reg's is that the Draft EIS
has to be determined to be complete and John did ask me that this Board give him as close to the maximum,
the maximum is 30 days. If another 30 days is needed, you can ask for another 30 days, to determine
whether the Draft EIS is complete and you do that before a public hearing is set. Does the Board have
any comment on a time they woul d 1 i ke to have John report back, regarding compl eteness of the Draft
EIS.
MR. CARTIER-Wait a minute. I'm confused, now. We have 30 days to set a public hearing on this?
MS. CORPUS-You have 30 days to determine whether the Draft EIS is complete.
MR. CARTIER-Okay.
MS. CORPUS-And if it's not complete, you have another 30 days to, and any requirements that are made
of the appl icant, and then at that time is when a certificate of completeness is issued and a publ ic
hearing is set.
MR. CARTIER-Is this something that we could handle at a regular meeting, tack on to a regular meeting?
I don't mean the public hearing part.
MRS. YORK-I think in the memo I wrote to you the regular meetings are after the 30 days.
MR. CARTIER-So we do have to have a special meeting, then. How about if we do that the 11th, when
we're going to make site visits? Can we take the first half hour?
MS. CORPUS-Well, John Goralski would have to be present to give his report as to completeness.
MR. CARTIER-Well, yes, maybe I'm doing this backwards. I know. It's got to be done before the 16th
or 19th.
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MRS. YORK-Right.
MS. CORPUS-Right.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Suppose we scheduled that for the first half hour of our site visit day from 4 to
4:30, John could give us a report to that effect?
MS. CORPUS-Okay. Can I just ask where? When?
MR. CARTIER-Lower Conference Room, 4 p.m., July 11th. Is that amenable to everybody?
MR. CAIMANO-Yes.
MR. CARTIER-Basically, John is going to review this thing and he's going to indicate to us whether
it's complete or not. I would suggest to Board members that they take the time to go through that
monster themselves and if they have any concerns that ought to be addressed, to pass them on to John
by way of the Planning Department. Some things have already showed up for me, I know.
MS. CORPUS-Rist-Frost will be there also.
MR. CAIMANO-Just two quick things. Number One, something came up tonight on the agenda and I first
wrote down a note to say, why was this guy made to wait until the end because it was so simple, but
Number Two, it also brought up a Mike Baird type of syndrome. This poor gentleman was sitting here
tonight on a simple little problem and hadn't a clue where he was going. He had actually created a
sign and he doesn't even know whether that sign is in, that's not right, and he thought he was coming
here to get approval to put a sign up for a sign that he doesn't even have approval to make yet. There's
something wrong with that and that's how we get in trouble. I don't know how he got here. but he
shouldn't have gotten here. He made a sign and that sign may not be in conformity with what they're
going to tell him to make.
MRS. YORK-I know that.
MR. CAIMANO-Fortunately, he's pretty savvy, but he was here clueless, and it's not his fault.
MRS. YORK-Yes. I have never met the gentleman or tal ked to him prior to this evening. He obviously
got a referral form from the Zoning Administrator. got the paperwork from her and submitted it to my
office.
MR. CAIMANO-Would you do me a favor, would you do this Board a favor, before the Supervisor beats us
over the head. Some time tomorrow, would you call this gentleman and say, did you understand? Because
he didn't, and I think that's the right thing for us to do.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MR. CAIMANO-And put him in the right direction, not that you have to it for him, but push him in the
right direction and say, you've got to go over here and do this now.
MRS. YORK-Well, some time ago, I wrote up a description of what happens at site plan review and I believe
Pat has been giving that to everyone who applies. It goes through the steps and that you go to Warren
County. You might have to go to Beautification, the rationale behind site plan review and things like
that and it was my understanding she was giving that out so that everyone would be well apprised of
the process and the same goes with the Zoning Board applicants.
MR. CAIMANO-He was clueless tonight.
MRS. YORK-I will give him a call.
MR. CAIMANO-Thank you. I appreciate it. My only other comment was, maybe I just read this wrong,
was Dave Hatin's letter which kind of smelled of Pat Crayford's letter. This letter in regard to Joan
Lee Site Plan 38-91. If you read this. it is a non-determin~tion and we've got to make a determination,
at least that's the way I read it. "This would not be in conformance with today's standards for a
new, two bedroom house which would require at least two 6 by 8 pits or one 8 by 10 seepage pit, however,
there are no requirements in the Sanitary Sewage Ordinance for a person adding a bedroom to upgrade
a septic system as long as it...I trust this will answer any concerns you have." Well, it didn't answer
my concerns.
MR. LAPOINT-What he's saying is, if you're building a new house, you need those two. With an existing
structure, if the sewage system is adequate, then it's adequate.
MR. CARTIER-In other words, what we did tonight, basically, was take the word of the applicant that
the septic system is functioning.
37
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MR. CAIMANO-Yes, right.
MR. CARTIER-We could have required that it be tested by an engineer and certified.
MR. CAIMANO-Okay. As long as we understood we stuck our neck out.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. The issue of the evening has to do with the SEQRA Review on re-zoning. I have no
set format for this. I think maybe what might be worth doing is if anybody would like to state their
position on this, we can go down the line and do that and then get into a discussion and see where
we're going to go. Does anybody want to start?
MR. LAPOINT-I've just got four quick comments, and it's regarding our motion to assume SEQRA Lead Agency
Status on the Diehl project, PI-91. I think we made an error by not granting the Town Board Lead Agency
Status, and pending this discussion, I intend to make a motion to defer that Lead Agency Status to
the Town Board. I think it's important that we separate the review process from the individual projects.
Each applicant should be subject to the same criteria, regardless of our personal feelings on the project
and in the past and on subsequent re-zon1ng issues, we've granted the Town Lead Agency Status and I
think that reviewing our discussions of May 8th seems to infer to me that we prejudged the project.
So, pending this discussion, I think I'm going to make a motion to defer to the Town Board.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Anybody else?
MR. MARTIN-Well, I disagree. I think that two wrongs don't necessarily make a right. If we've been
doing this type of thing in the past, if's wrong. I counted up tonight, for example, we did a total
of eight SEQRA determinations tonight in the course of one meeting, regarding planning issues. We
are about to enter into a major Draft Environmental Impact Statement, a review of that. I just believe
that, from a Planning standpoint, we are more qual ified, and especially on a project of this nature
where there can be the so called "political element" to it, and that's not necessarily to say, and
I'm sorry to see that the Town Board has taken thi s as an insult, that they are a pol itical body by
their nature. They're an elected body, and that's not to say that that's a negative comment, but this
is a politically sensitive project, and therefore should be in the hands of an objective Board, that's
not elected, that deals with these planning issues month in and month out, and I think we are eminently
more qualified to deal with this particular SEQRA Review.
MR. HAGAN-Jim, to add to that, what would be your comment to the fact that this Board still gets the
chance to perform the SEQRA Review when that particular site plan comes before us?
MR. MARTIN-Our participation is only as a commenting agency. It's not as the agency who makes the
determination and that is where the bulk of the power lies with this type of decision.
MR. CAIMANO-No, but he's saying, when the subdivision is approved, that then they have to come back
for site plan review.
MR. LAPOINT-Re-zoning.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, the re-zoning is approved.
MR. MARTIN-But by that time the principle issue is already passed, and that being the density is already
doubled and then our hands are tied, we're restricted.
MR. CAIMANO-Well, I've got to tell you that I suspect, I'm listening to both, and I hear both of you,
but I suspect that if you take the individual site plan, politics does enter into it with with a small
"p". I feel strongly, I personally have felt strongly that the Town Board shoul d do something to correct
the problem that we have now with the affordable housing. That is, we have no vehicle to handle the
affordable housing issue, as it comes up, and rather than face that issue, we're going to do it hand
to mouth, and they're going to do it again hand to mouth. So, I'd be the first one to say, in this
particular issue, I'm using it as a block. I'm not afraid to say that I would use it as a block because
I want the Town Board to think about what they're doing, that instead of facing the issue, and that
is an overlay zone or whatever, they continue to stumble and bumble along and leave it to the next
Board or whatever. That bothers me.
MR. MARTIN-Well, the issue that I want brought out, in terms of these so called "affordable housing
projects", is I want, I don't believe that the first quick fix method to make housing so called
"affordable" is to automatically reduce the lot size and cut the lot size in half. There are many,
many, many, many, many elements that go into the cost of a home, especially on a project of that scale,
and it is not the Town's responsibility to make that man's project affordable, from the standpoint
of doubling the density. It's not the Town's responsibility to provide that affordable housing. If
that's what he wants to do, then there are other measures that can be taken. If those are exhausted,
then, fine, maybe a density issue can be looked at, but there's too often this quick fix method of
just going, well, I'm going to double the density.
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MR. LAPOINT-So, what we're implying, here, is that we will use SEQRA to block this project.
MR. MARTIN-I'm not implying that.
MR. CAIMANO-I implied that. He didn't. I implied that, on an individual basis, which is what you
were arguing against.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
MR. CAIMANO-Okay, but that's one issue. The other issue is a general issue of who should be handling
SEQRA.
MR. LAPOINT-I agree, and, to me, it should be separated from an applicant. We shouldn't put the
appl icant through an unfair criteria. I mean we, in the past, have always given it to the Town Board,
and on subsequent issues, have given it to the Town Board. On this particular applicant, we have decided
to keep it for ourselves, and I think that's almost worse than what we're accusing the Town Board of
doing.
MR. CAIMANO-So, you're saying, lets get rid of this first and then go at the major issue?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. If you wanted to make a separate issue that we should take re-zoning in general,
us as Lead Agent, I would be agreeable to that, but to put one appl icant through a different set of
criteria and every other applicant we've put through, I think, is unfair.
MRS. PULVER-Yes. I feel that the re-zoning for the senior complex was just as important, the SEQRA
on it, as the re-zoning for the affordable housing, and we allowed the Town Board, or we gave the Town
Board Lead Agency Status on that. I am very much with Ed. If we're going to be Lead Agency, we're
going to be Lead Agency from this time on, and that's the way it's going to be. I mean, we just can't
single out this one applicant.
MR. LAPOINT-It's a whole separate issue.
MRS. PULVER-Right.
MR. LAPOINT-A whole separate issue.
MR. CAIMANO-He makes a good point. That makes good sense.
MRS. PULVER-And I think, at this point, it makes us, we're prejudice against the project, and it's
obvious, and I don't think that we could do a good job.
MR. MARTIN-Nobody said that I was prejudice against the project.
MR. CAIMANO-I'm not prejudice against the project.
MR. MARTIN-I'm not prejudice against the project, either.
MR. CAIMANO-I'm prejudice against the way it's being handled.
MR. LAPOINT-Exactly. If we weren't prejudice against the project, then what's the problem with the
Town Board be Lead Agent?
MR. CAIMANO-Well, I think you make a good point.
MR. LAPOINT-It's just what we're accusing them of.
MR. MARTIN-If what you are saying is true, then the process would not allow for this type of consent.
I said this to you during site review. The process, by its nature, is acknowledging the fact that
this is not always clear sailing, that it's not always the best thing for the SEQRA process, to have
the Town Board review it, or the elected, governing body. That is why the Planning Board has a chance
to comment, and that is why some projects may go through a different set of review standards than another
project. Call that singling one out, if you want, that's, sure, but.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, yes, I disagree, they should be the same standards. I don't believe in different
criteria for different projects.
MR. MARTIN-That's why, I'm not saying different criteria, but I'm saying, in one case, one Board may
be better qualified than another Board, and I do think this project is different than even the senior
housing project. There are many things that are different about this than the senior housing project.
MRS. PULVER-They are, but it's are-zoning.
MR. MARTIN-But it's a different project by it's nature.
39
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MRS. PULVER-Well, it's a re-zoning for a special need.
MR. LAPOINT-For a special purpose.
MR. CARTIER-My turn? First of all, I've been very impressed with the quality of this debate. I really
have. I think Jim and Ed have done a good job of clarifying it, and what may be one person's dissension
is, in fact, as far as I'm concerned, healthy debate. I'm hearing two separate but very related issues,
you've pointed it out tonight, whether the Board should assume Lead Agency Status for all re-zoning
appl ications and whether it should start with the Diehl appl ication. For me, I always fall back on
what's gained and what's lost, and what's in the best long term interest of this Town. That's what
the Planning Board is charged with considering and, to me, it's in the best long term interest of this
community for the SEQRA process to be removed from the political arena, and it has to start somewhere.
Now, I'm sorry that the Town Board members are offended by that. There's no offense intended on our
part.
MR. MARTIN-That's right.
MR. CARTIER-But since affordable housing is, in fact, a politically sensitive issue, my position is
that it start here. There is a procedure in place at the State level for situations just such as this,
and it seems to me it would be appropriate for us to take advantage of that procedure and let the DEC
Commissioner decide, and then we go from there. As has been brought up by another Board member, we
have been, a comment was made somewhere along the line, that we're holding up this applicant, by some
other Board member, and has been pointed out by a member of this Board, this thing could have gone
to DEC a long time ago and the DEC Commissioner, by law, must make a determination within 20 days.
MR. MARTIN-That's right.
MR. CARTIER-So, this could have been dealt with and been done with a long time ago.
MR. MARTIN-We made our decision May 8th, and if that was handed over to the DEC Commissioner within
a few days of that, then this would have been resolved and the process could have been up for a site
pl an revi ew by now, or subdivi si on, and I want to know, what is the reason for the del ay? Why is it
being held up and all this pressure building for no apparent reason?
MR. LAPOINT-Well, I think they gave us a chance to reconsider, to tell you the truth, because I disagree
with Pete. We have handled two re-zonings since Diehl, where we have deferred to the Town Board.
So, I think it would be inconsistently continues to march along in time and I think that the specter
of us debating with the Town Board in front of the DEC or anyone else, for that matter, is inappropriate.
MR. MARTIN-It's not inappropriate.
MR. CAIMANO-I don't agree with that at all.
MR. MARTIN-Because the process allows for it. That's why you're asked to consent, and if you don't
consent, then it's just a simple process.
MR. LAPOINT-It's such a small issue. It is a very small issue.
MR. CAIMANO-Well, we have an easy way out, here. Why don't we take the high ground, here. We admit,
I think all of us or most of us admit, that the big issue is, who, in the future, will handle the SEQRA.
The minor issue, or the other issue, the peripheral issue is, as you have pointed out. We may be in
error in holding somebody up to criterion that he didn't know about beforehand. So, why don't we take
the high ground. Why don't we take the high ground and say, we're going to stand our ground. This
is how we feel, however, we will not embarrass or hold up this applicant.
MR. LAPOINT-I think we should correct the error we made, first, and then, again, because I see two
different debates, here. I see that the error we made with the applicant, and then the discussion
on whether we should send it to re-zoning.
MR. MARTIN-How much fairer is it going to be? When are you going to, then, make the decision? When
are you going to say that, well, on the next appl icant, we're going to not consent to the Town Board
taking Lead Agency Status on a zone change?
MR. CAIMANO-IlI1IIediately. We say, fine, the hell with Diehl. That's out of our hands. It's already
been, but from now on, this is it. From this day forward, June 25th at 9:45, that's it.
MR. HAGAN-I thought that's what we already decided.
MR. LAPOINT-No. I seconded that motion on May 8th, and I feel poorly about that and I want to correct
that situation and then deal with the next situation, which would be, if we want to handle all
re-zonings.
40
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MR. MARTIN-Yes, but it's no less unfair to that applicant than it is to Diehl. Then the next guy who
comes along is caught up in what you're describing as this terrible morass that we've created.
MR. LAPOINT-No. I say we handle it separately. Before we consider another re-zoning, we make a
determination as to whether we want to be Lead Agency from here on out, and not put another appl icant
in the middle and subject to unfair standards that we don't put other applicants through, because we
have changed horses in the middle of the stream, here, with the last two we did.
MR. MARTIN-No. We will be changing horses now. We had a unanimous decision, May 8th. Now we will
be changing horses.
MR. LAPOINT-We changed it at the last meeting when we voted to give Lead Agency Status to two re-zoning
projects.
MR. CARTIER-But those were grandfathered. Those were in the pipeline prior to our discussion.
MR. MARTIN-And I said that before I voted yes on that.
MR. CAIMANO-Yes, you're right. That's a good point.
MR. LAPOINT-Why shouldn't Diehl have the same criteria established.
MR. CAIMANO-Do you want to know the truth?
MR. LAPOINT-Why shouldn't he have the same criteria?
MR. MARTIN-He's not going to be subjected to any different criteria. What I'm saying is, he has a
better review with an objective Board.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, see, I think we've inferred, already, our displeasure with them.
MR. MARTIN-I'm not going to hold him to a different set of criteria. That's not legal.
MRS. PULVER-The thought that crosses my mind is that I have not been involved in most of the discussion
because the first time this came up, of course, Nick and I were not here, or involved in the voting,
but if it is beginning to appear to me that it is we against them. I don't like that feeling on this.
I just don't like that.
MR. CAIMANO-We against them, meaning the Town Board?
MRS. PULVER-The Town Board against the Planning Board, you know, they ~ a political body, yes, they
~ elected, and they probably got our votes, and I am very much in favor of this Board passing a
resolution to be Lead Agency on all re-zoning projects from this day forward, but I don't like the
idea that this Board, it seems that you're making an issue out of the Diehl case. I mean, you voted
to be Lead Agency, for whatever reason. I was not at the meeting, and now it's become an issue and
you're going to hang onto it until the bitter end.
MR. MARTIN-If you were thinking that the Town Board would not be just as upset with us if we were to,
on the next application say, they're going to be upset with this resolution saying that you want to
be Lead Agent, now, on all zoning.
MRS. PULVER-That's it. That's right.
MR. LAPOINT-That's still open for discussion. I think we've got to clear one hurdle at a time.
MR. MARTIN-That's going to fall on just as much disfavor as this one applicant.
MRS. PULVER-I haven't said I wanted to be Lead Agency on everything. I'm just saying that if the Board
could pass a resolution to do that.
MR. MARTIN-Right, on every re-zoning, that's going to fall on just as much disfavor.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, it's open to debate and it doesn't put an applicant on an unfair position.
MR. MARTIN-And I'm saying, if we're going to bite the bullet, lets bite the bullet and stick with our
decision as made on May 8th, because it's going to hit the fan sooner or later.
MR. CARTIER-Well, see, I don't hear us resolving this issue with the Town Board, let alone among
ourselves, here, and that's why there's a third party alternative available to us.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, no. If I make a motion to defer Lead Agency Status to them, and we come up with
a majority, then we have resolved that particular issue without DEC, which is what I'd like to do.
I don't think we need to bring them in. I think it's a mistake.
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MRS. PULVER-If you have a gun, you don't shoot it just because it's there.
MR. MARTIN-I'd like to know, where does this perception come from that this going to the DEC Commissioner
is like the most awful, terrible thing in the world? It's just a procedural matter. He probably does
it all the time.
MR. LAPOINT-Do you deal with them very often, like every day?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. If he's bound to a 20 day review time, what's the big deal?
MR. LAPOINT-I don't think we should have kept the SEQRA to begin with.
MR. MARTIN-All I'm saying is I just can't help, but feel that, you know, they feel like their toes
are being stepped on and we're infringing on their power and it's this big power play thing and I don't
want it to be that type of thing. I just want the best possible objective SEQRA Review for this project,
and now it's gotten into this big issue, well, you know, Planning Board members are running for office,
and this that and the other thing and they're trying to make it into a political thing. I might remind
you that on that night, the two Pl anning Board members who are running for office weren't even there
to vote.
MR. LAPOINT-That doesn't enter into it.
MR. MARTIN-Well, it is entering into it.
MRS. PULVER-We haven't voted on either. We haven't voted on anything. We haven't even been there.
MR. CAIMANO-That's right.
MR. MARTIN-So, I just think, somebody's nose is all out of joint for no reason at all. It's just a
matter of, you have two people who want to do Lead Agency Status, let it go to the Commissioner and
let him decide.
MRS. PULVER-Exactly. So, now that we're all here. Let's have a motion. Let's all vote.
MR. LAPOINT-I think we can take care of it tonight, rather than the 20 day wait for the Commissioner,
who I don't think would review this in any kind of depth or anything. I mean, to them, this is nothing,
and they would not even give it, I mean, they would probably defer to the Town Board, is my guess.
MR. CARTIER-We don't know that.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, to put the State through that. I know what kind of work load they have. To put
them through something like this is just inappropriate.
MR. HAGAN-That should not be your guiding light, though.
MR. LAPOINT-It's not my guiding light. My guiding light is we made an error at the cost of an applicant,
and that's what I think we did wrong.
MR. MARTIN-Well, I'm ready to hear the motion.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MR. CARTIER-Wait a minute. Does anybody else want to make a comment? Okay. Go.
MOTION THAT THE PUUtNUIG BOARD CONSENTS TO ESTABLISHING THE TM BOARD AS LEAD AGENT FOR PI-91 PETITION
FOR A CHANGE OF lONE, THE DIEHL PROJECT, Introduced by Edward LaPoint,
MS. CORPUS-Ed, procedurally, what you would do is vote to withdraw the prior motion, first.
MOTION TO RESCIND THE IIJTION OF MAY 8TH ASSUMING LEAD AGENCY STATUS FOR THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD,
Introduced by Edward LaPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
Duly adopted this 25th day of June, 1991, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Caimano
NOES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. Martin, Mr. Cartier
ABSTAINED: Mr. Brewer
MS. CORPUS-No action.
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MR. CARTIER-So, what does that leave us, in terms of Roberts Rules?
MS. CORPUS-That's, technically, a no action vote, which is not sufficient to rescind the motion. Mr.
Brewer, if he does feel that he could get fully informed on the matter, could participate in a further
vote some other time, if he wanted to. That's up to him.
MR. CAIMANO-Maybe I can help this a little bit, and I'll make a statement, here. 1111 vote to rescind
it in order to clear up the matter, but I would not vote for your motion the way you said it. If we're
going to rescind this, then I have to be satisfied with the motion that leaves Diehl alone, but handles
the whole matter in one motion. Otherwise, it's possible that we could drop the Diehl project and
never get a vote on the other. So, I voted to rescind, but I'm waiting to hear your motion expanded,
not just for Diehl, I buy Diehl, but I want it included here.
MR. LAPOINT-He can't do that, can he?
MR. CAIMANO-I'm just telling you how I feel.
MS. CORPUS-No. It's dead.
MRS. PULVER-Ed is talking about making two motions. The first one to rescind, or to have the Lead
Agency Status turned over to the Town Board. A second motion to have the Planning Board be Lead Agency
in all re-zoning matters.
MR. CAIMANO-I understand that, but I don't want them separated.
MR. CARTIER-Understand that that second kind of motion doesn't go anywhere unless the Town Board grants
us that status.
MR. MARTIN-All you're saying is you're automatically not going to consent to the next one that comes
along.
MR. CARTIER-Exactly right.
MRS. PULVER-But then, guess what, they're warned.
MR. MARTIN-All you're saying is that you're automatically not going to consent to the Town Board being
Lead Agent on the next re-zoning, no matter what the project is.
MRS. PULVER-Well, then they know.
MR. CAIMANO-On re-zoning.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, right.
MRS. PULVER-But then they know.
MS. CORPUS-I just have a question. Now that the previous resolution stands, has this Board decided
whether to submit this to DEC?
MR. LAPOINT-That's not our choice.
MR. MARTIN-That's not our choice, is it?
MR. CARTIER-That's a good question. Who is responsible for submitting this to DEC?
MS. CORPUS-That's a good question. I'm not really sure. There are also a couple of potential issues
that have to do with representation and whatnot, that the Board may want to discuss in Executive Session,
furthering the discussion before the DEC, as it's quasi judicial in nature and it's quasi litigation,
so to speak. There might be certain i~sues the Board would want to discuss in Executive Session, with
regard to DEC, regarding Counsel and whatnot, if the Board wishes to retain any.
MR. CARTIER-Yes. I hear you. I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm not sure if we're at that
point yet, but it's a good point and it's one to hang on to, because we'll come back to it.
MR. MARTIN-I would just like to say, I don't think there's any reason why this can't be sent to the
Commissioner and get this issue over with.
MR. CAIMANO-Which is what we just did.
MS. CORPUS-Well, this Board won't meet in time to decide the issues of representation and whatnot,
within that 20 day period.
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MR. WlRTIN-Karla, has there been any word back from the Town Board, as to our request for separate
Counsel?
MR. LAPOINT-We didn't make a request for that, did we? I hope not.
MR. HAGAN-Yes, we did.
MR. LAPOINT-Did we vote on that?
MRS. PULVER-I wasn't here.
MS. CORPUS-I do not attend the Town Board meetings, but I can find out for you.
MR. HAGAN-Weren't you here when the Town Attorney said, he even recommended we have independent counsel.
MR. CARTIER-I bel ieve you're getting into an issue that we discussed in Executive Session al ready,
if I recall.
MS. CORPUS-Right.
MR. LAPOINT-I don't think we should be hiring attorneys and all that stuff.
MR. HAGAN-Well, you voted for it.
MR. LAPOINT-If I did, that was another error.
MRS. PULVER-Was there a quorum present, though, because I don't think I was there. I don't think Nick
was there.
MR. LAPOINT-We made a vote to? I would have said no to retaining another attorney.
MR. CAIMANO-I don't know that we actually took a vote. We discussed it.
MR. CARTIER-Well, wait a minute. I think we're, again, one step ahead of ourselves here. I have to
give the Town Board an answer as to whether we're going to meet with them and discuss this with them.
That's where we're at now. Now, we don't necessarily have to entertain any kind of motion to go to
DEC at this point. We can decide we want to have a meeting with the Town Board and push that around
the table some more, or we can decide, no we don't want to have a meeting with the Town Board and we
can lay a motion on the table to go to DEC.
MR. MARTIN-I'll put this out that will threaten my very position as someone who voted no, maybe a meeting
with the Town Board would break the deadlock, here.
MR. LAPOINT-It's in the Town Board's hands, right now, to appeal to the Commissioner, not ours.
MR. CAIWlNO-Say that again?
MR. LAPOINT-It's in the Town Board's hands to appeal to the Commissioner, not ours.
MR. CARTIER-I assume that's correct.
MR. LAPOINT-The ball is in their court, then.
MR. CARTIER-I assume that's correct.
MR. WlRTIN-It has been since May 8th, I should note.
MR. LAPOINT-Since May 8th, yes. I just tried to correct that, tonight, to no avail.
MR. CAlMANO-I think, again, the high ground says that we try to get together with the Town Board.
MS. CORPUS-Did the Town Board ask you to make that determination tonight, about meeting?
MR. CARTIER-I got a 1 etter from Steve saying that they wanted us to meet one more time to see if we
could not resolve the issue internally, ourselves. If not, then, he wanted a special meeting.
MR. CAlMANO-He's talking about Board to Board, not in a phone booth somewhere, right?
MR. CARTIER-Yes.
MR. CAIWlNO-Okay.
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MS. CORPUS-Okay. I was not aware of that. That's fine.
MR. CAIMANO-Lets do it.
MR. CARTIER-Lets do what?
MR. CAIMANO-As Jim says, lets take the high road and meet with them.
MR. CARTIER-Have a Town Board meeting?
MR. CAIMANO-Sure. I'm happy.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. All right. Does anybody care to make a motion to the effect that we get together
with the Town Boa rd. I don't even know if we need a motion. A 11 we have to do is 1 et the Town Boa rd
know we haven't resolved this issue among ourselves.
MR. MARTIN-And instruct you to set up a meeting date.
MR. CARTIER-Well, he's the one the one who wants to call a special Town meeting and invite us to it.
MR. CAIMANO-Fine. Let him do that.
MRS. PULVER-May I also ask our Senior Planner if she could just get the application and give it to
Mr. Brewer so he might be able to look it over.
MRS. YORK-What application?
MRS. PULVER-Diehl's.
MS. CORPUS-He'd need all the minutes, too.
MRS. YORK-Do you want to get involved in this?
MR. CARTIER-Well, I understand what you're trying to do, here, but lets not put our newest member in
a tough situation.
MRS. PULVER-Well, he's going to be faced with it sooner or later.
MR. CARTIER-Well, maybe, maybe not. Let's let Tim decide what he wants to do about that issue. whether
he's going to continue to abstain or vote or whatever.
MRS. PULVER-Well, I think he should have an application anyway.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Where are we at here? We're going to leave it, the Town Board can set up a special
meeting. Can you inform Steve that we did not come to a resolution and if he wishes to set up a Town
Board meeting and invite us to it.
MS. CORPUS-Does this Board have any prefer,ence as to time and whatnot? Their first regular meeting
is the 8th. I'm not sure whether they were thinking of before then or not.
MR. CARTIER-I don't have any problem with anything.
MR. CAIMANO-I'm happy with that.
MR. CARTIER-The sooner, the better.
MR. CAIMANO-Tell him to call the meeting and then we'll let him know.
MR. CARTIER-Well, that's a very real possibility.
MR. CAIMANO-Yes. Call him, you know, we could go back and forth forever on dates. Just call the
meeting. If we can be there, we'll be there.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. We'll make it.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Anything else?
MR. CAIMANO-However, I would debate that with you. I think that given a main motion with an amendment,
we could get that done.
MR. CARTIER-Get what done? What's this?
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MR. CAIMANO-Karla doesn't think I could do what I wanted to do.
MRS. PULVER-They're right, an amendment to the motion, right.
MR. CARTIER-Run it by us again. What's your idea?
MR. CAIft\l\NO-My idea is that I would go along with LaPoint on the deal, specifically on the Diehl, but
I would want it amended to the point that, from this point forward, all zoning would be, we stand by
our rights of wanting to do the SEQRA for all other re-zonings.
MRS. PULVER-Now what has to happen though is, he has to start the motion and after he makes his motion,
then you have to amend the motion with whatever it is.
MR. CAIft\l\NO-Yes. I mean, we could do that.
MR. CARTIER-Do you want to try an amended motion, Ed?
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, so I make another motion to withdraw.
MR. CAIMANO-No. The withdrawal is dead. You can't get by with that, unless Brewer votes.
MS. CORPUS-Unless somebody votes differently.
MRS. PULVER-So, now you're going to pass a new motion.
MR. CAIft\l\NO-Well, my point is, we can't do that.
MR. CARTIER-Okay. Karla has just brought up a very good point. Is anybody going to change their vote
based on a change in a motion?
MR. MARTIN-No.
MR. CARTIER-I'm not.
MR. HAGAN-No.
MR. CAIMANO-Well, then, it's moot.
MR. CARTIER-Exactly. So, we don't have to worry about it. Does anybody have anything else? If there's
no other business before the Board, we can entertain a motion to adjourn.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Peter Cartier, Chairman
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