1991-07-22 SP
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(Opy
RES. 397 - 393
(Plon/Bd Res. )
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
JULY 22ND, 1991
6:05 p...
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
STEPHEN BORGOS-Supervisor '.
GEORGE KUROSAKA-Councilman(entered meeting after executive
session)
MARILYN POTENZA-Councilman
RONALD MONTESI-Councilman
BETTY MONAHAN-Councilman(entered meeting after executive
session)
TOWN ATTORNEY
. PAUL DUSEK
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Peter Cartier, Chairman
Nicholas Caimano
James Martin
Carol Pulver
Edward LaPoint
Timothy Brewer
James Hagan
SUPERVISOR BORGOS called meeting to order.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 391, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who
moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza.
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns from Regular Session to enter Executive Session for the
purpose of discussion regarding Personnel Matters with the
Queensbury Planning Board.
Duly adopted this 22nd day of July,1991, by the following vote:
Ayes: Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mr. Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Monahan
Councilman Kurosaka and Councilman Monahan entered meeting.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR REGULAR SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 392, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald ~ontesi who
moved for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenz~.
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town
adjourns~from Executive Session and enters
of the Town Board.
of Queensbury hereby
into Regular Session
Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1991, by the following vote:
, : ,Ayes : Mr. ~urosaka, Mrs. Potenza,
~d," ':': Bo'rgos
Mr. Mont,e s i ""Mrs
Monahan, Mr.',
Noes: None
Absent: None
DISCUSSION REGARDING LEAD AGENCY OF DIEHL REZONING
Supervisor Borgos-The purpose,of this meeting this evening' is to
:'try ,to resolve a long standing problem related to ,which one of
the two 'groups here, the Planning Board or the Town Board will .
assume the lead-agent roll in review of a particular request for
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rezoning on upper Sherman Ave. Much has been said in the press
about this, much has been said at Town Board meetings and
Planning Board meetings if you have read the minutes. I think it
is good for the 'public to get a real quick review from our Town
Attorney who has in many respects been caught in the middle of
this, certainly has done a great deal of research on the subject
... introduced Mr. Dusek \
Attorney Dusek-I have from time to time spoken to the various
boards and given some initial consultation, to bring us up to
date. First of all the situation as the Supervisor has explained
a lead agent for SEGRA purposes must be agreed on. The SEGRA law
provides that of all the potentially involved agencies and
involved agencies would mean any agency that would be authorized
to approve the plan or issue a permit of some kind' of all the
involved agencies and in this particular case a rezoning project
one of them has to be the lead agent which would be primarily
responsible for going through the SEGRA process getting the
applicant through the SEGRA process. Usually the lead agent
status is agreed to among the parties and is re~~ly not a major
issue. In this particular case the two boards have indicated
that each one of them would like to be the lead agent. As both
boards know I have explained in the past that I have felt
slightly uncomfortable because obviously as Town Attorney I
represent the Town Board and I have also from time to time
represented the Planning Board and on a regular basis Karla
Corpus does sit in on the meetings and render opinions. Normally
we do not have any problems because you both are doing different
types of issues so we do not run into conflict situations. In
this particular case I was concerned so I alerted everybody to
that concern and I have tried to proceed as carefully as possible
and will continue to do so tonight. One of the concerns that was
on my mind as I started to prepare for tonight to give you this
advice because I know that there is a sensitivity that I might be
more persuaded by one Board over the other I know that has been a
concern that has been raised in the past so in preparing for
tonight just so you know I at this poin~ I am speaking to the
Planning Board and I am speaking to the Town Board as the Town
Attorney for the Town of Gueensbury at that moment. Why do I say
that? I am just emphasizing that to you now because I see, myself
as Town Attorney as giving counsel to the Town Board representing
the Town Board I represent the Planning Board as well as officers
and other boards of the town. But I also have a role and I think
a responsibility to the Town itself, the corporation the
municipal corporation itself. So it is in that responsibility
and in that' capacity that I speak to you tonight I am trying to
speak objectively in order to hopefully assist in bring this
matter to an easy resolution tonight. The SEGRA regulations
provided for by DEC indicate that once you get to the point where
lead agency cannot be agreed upon anybody the applicant any
involved agency can request the DEC Commissioner to make a
decision as to who should be lead agent. The regulations also
set forth the criteria that is used by DEC in making the decision
and just to read for you briefly the criteria which I know at one
meeting I read to the Planning Board, the following criteria in
order of importance shall be used by the Commissioner to
designate the lead agency 1. Whether the anticipated impact of
the action being considered are primarily State wide regional or
of local significance, then there is some bracketed materi~l but.
in that particular case that does not apply because this is a
local problem there is no St~te organization trying to claim lead
agency status. Second criteria, which agency has the broadest
governmental powers for investjgation of the impact of the
proposed action? Third criteria is which agency has the greatest
capability for providing the most thorough environmental
assessment of the proposed action? The other thing I might
stress is that in reading that it says the following criteria in
order of importance so therefore criteria number 1 is more
important than number 2, 2 is more important than number 3. In
this particular case we have already isolated 1 becau.e we do not
have regional problem that is out we are looking at criteria 2.
From reading the criteria my gut reaction is that the Town Board
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should be the logical choice for lead agency unless there is some
compelling reason why they should not be. I asked Karla to dig
up some more information for me and we were lucky to obtain a
couple of decisions from DEC where they have actuallY looked
these lead agency questi~ns not on this particular case but on
other cases. One decision is a little old itis 1986 the other
is newer 1991. One decisioo dealt with the Town of Huntington
Town Board and DEC, the local regional office were disagreeing.
In that particular case the primary criteria that was looked at
was number 1 where it was reg i onal, I oca I and they said it was
local. But, what I found interesting in it is that happened to
deal with a rezoning matter and the DEC made some very
...comments with respect to rezonings. It said in order for a
project to be constructed as proposed the applicant must obtain a
zone change from the Town Board and subdivision approval from the
Planning Board. In considering the zone change the Town Board
will have to assess the needs of the 'community for residential
development vs the value of the site as open space. The
appropriate density for any subsequent use. The decision on
zoning must be addressed before any subsequent decision related
to the construction of the site can be assessed. The importance
of the zoning decision and the potential for that decision to
modify or effect subsequent decision making at the site points to
the Town of Huntington Town Board as the most appropriate
involved agency to serve as lead agency. This wasn't a çontest
between the Planning Board and the Town Board but rather i~ was a
contest between the Town Board and DEC but I think the points
that they make about the Town Board b~ing the most logical lead
agency are certainly important to consider in this particular
case. The other thing that the decision emphasizes and think
that thi,s, is importa'1t, for both boards to consider and that is,
even though we said the Town Board should be lead agent the
decision does not in any manner limit or minimize the
responsibility of all other involved agencies to review the
proposed action and assist the Town Board in completion of the
environmental review process. If the Town Board chooses not to
entertain a petition to rezone the site as allowed under Town Law
~uch legi~lative decision would not be reviewable and they'go on.
So, the message there I think from the commissioner was thàt even
though we are saying the Town Board is DEC regional offíce you
still play a p~rt here, you still have respons~bilities you
should assist the Town Board in their review to make sure the
issues that you are concerned about from the SEQRA perspective
get reviewed. In addition to the decisions Karla had a
conversation with Gail ...an associate council with DEC she
indicated that normally the parties do work these issues out
themselves, which is what we are attempting to do here. Secondly
she iridicated that her opinion was,the Town Board would probably
get the nod to get lead agent. They normally have the broadest
powers unless there is a good reason for DEC to change their mind
they probably would go with the Town Board. At this point my
only comments to both boards would be this, that ¡ think the
Planning Board has indicated and rightfully so some very sincere
sensitivity to environmental questions and making sure they get
evaluated. I think the law provides an ample mechanism for them
to address their concerns even if they should decide that the
Town Board should be lead agent. The other th~ng ¡ would like to
say to both board S is based upon then my re search·.. based upon the
information that Karla has been able to gather for me I have to.
honestly tell you I think that most likely if this thing were to
go to DEC it looks to me th~t based upon everything that ¡'have
seen that DEC would probably say the Town Board would be lead
agent. I have said this as the Town 'Attorneytryin~ to be
objective looking at the facts n~t trying to take a side if it
had said Planning Board or she had said Planning Board~own at
DEC I would have said that to you. But that is not what, I - am
telling you exactly what I have researched and what I ha~e heard.
So hopefully this will help.
Supervisor Borgos-There are two problems, one the immediate
concerns of a very specific request on upper Sherman Avenue and
the other is what about the future, the Planning' Board in the
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minutes has taken the position at least the majority of them5eem
to be taking the position that for all rezoning cases the
Planning Board would like to be lead agent, I think that should
be discussed. In fairness to the particular applicant ~ho is in
front of us now, I thinK we should take care of that fi,rst. It
is our hope that we could sway one or two votes tonight 'and get
the Planning Board to reconsi'per let us be lead agent and get on
with this and then we could get into the discussion about the
future. If we cannot the Town Board has made the decision that
we wi 11 appeal to the 'comm i ss i oner we do not want to spend' the
money we do not want to provide money for the Planning Board
legal counsel to spend the money we may if we have to and that
will' have to be discussed by the Town Board but it just seems
1 i ke a wast e.
, Mr. Jim Martin-Planning Board Member-I would just like to add I
also called the State DEC I talked to the Office of Regulatory
Affairs' 'and they are the office that is directly associated with
the Commissioner and they draft the commissioner determination on
his behalf and s~bject to his review and change and commerit. His
comment was, I also asked for a history as to how these things
t'ypically went and he said he would be remiss to make a guess as
to how it would go because every case stands on its own so
therefore little insight could be gained by sighting any history
on the matter. I delved further into it and I really do not'
understand why this has been looked upon as such an awful
terrible thing. He made it sound as it was a very matter of a
fact type thing if two Boards disagree DEC will then ask the
Boards to make written justification as to why they should be
lead agent the commissions receive that and within 20 days you
have a decision. That's basically, there is no legal
presentation to be made there is no, there is no need for legal
counsel not unless you wanted assistance in drafting that written
response.
Supervisor Borgos-Asked if an attorney would be necessary on both
sides.
Attorney Dusek-Noted that was a decision a client would .have to
make ... in this case you draft a letter type applica~ion you
subm i t any support i ng document at i on that <you _ fee I would'back up
your position and then you send it to the DEC Commissioner, all
the parties do the same once the DEC Commissioner and hi~people
have received it they will review it and if they need further
information they will ask for it or they ask you to further
justify various points and he renders a decision. Being
conservat~ve if on~ party has a lawyer then the other party
probably wants to have a lawyer too.
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Mr. Peter Cartier-Planning Board-Refer you back,toour~~~y 8th
meeting minutes, it is our contention at this point to let ,it go
~to DEC I am sure we are going to resolve ,anything\here.
Secondly, personally I do not feel this Planning 'Board n~eds an
attorney to deal with this situation I think itsstrai~ht forward
enough that we can handle it ourselves as a Planning Board. The
issue of getting legal counsel as far as my concern is non
issue.
Mr. Martin-For me personally I know that there has been .some,
annoyance among the Town Board that there has been commen~~'from
this Board saying there may ~e a political tilt to your.
Supervisor Borgos-I was not going to bring that
officially ,in your resolution.
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Mr. Martin-I do not mean that as negative comment when I say your
decision may be politically tilted, you are an elected Board and
naturally you are going to have a concern for the political
'nature of a project. ~ am a planner by trade and I look upon the
SEGRA process as an objective and technical process and I think
we an a~ objective Board and especially on a planning related
matter can best serve the SEGRA process. We deal witMSEGRA
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determinations in our meetings sometimes 7-8 a night and 15 a
month and we see the SEQRA process from a Planning standpoint,
month in and month out we are now in the midst of a major review
of the roller coaster draft EIS so that was my reasoning behind
it and I am steadfast in that belief it is an objective process
and therefore an objective Board that see's the planning issues
month in and month out is be"st suited to deal with a SEQRA review
of a rezoning. That is why I also agree with it not only for
this project but projects in the future.
Supervisor Borgos-This is the way the Town Board perceives it we
have been dealing with the obj~ctive review subject of course to
the fact that we rep~esent thousand and thousands of people who
have a chance to review our performance in term~. of what we are
doing every two years. The Planning Board could be on for seven
years without any kind of review. We f~el very objective we have
very carefully, we think, carried out reviews of such projects as
the West Mt. Project, Hiland, Earltown, lots and lots of others
that we have gone into great detail and almost every month we do
one or two almost every meeting we do one or two SEQRA findings
ourselves, so we also feel that we have considerable amount of
expertise in that area. That is where we are locked here.
Councilman Potenza-I think at the last meeting when this was
discussed as a Town Board it was my recommendation that we go
onto the Commissioner of DEC and let him make the decision and
there was a request from ~he floor to perhaps let these two
boards work it out one more time. Although I am not a Planner I
have the availability of a professional planner and I just find
it a very simplistic decision to make. If you read the criteria
for the SEQRA as to what board has the responsibility it points
to the Town Board because we have the availability of all of the
information that is needed. This is why it is hard for me to
understand why the Planning Board for the first time in the
history that I have sat on the Town Board has decided to take the
lead agency status.
Peter Cartier-The only comment that I would make, this is not
that unique a situation if it were there would be no mec~anism to
deal with it and the fact of the matter is there is in place a
mechanism. In terms of it goes to DEC and DEC makes a
determination and all we are saying is lets make use of the
mechanism that is available to us.
Supervisor Bargas-Why use it if we could otherwise solve it in
house.
Peter Cartier-I do not see that happening tonight.
Supervisor Borgos-Noted the three to three vote, last time you
had someone that said he was new and not up to speed I would hope
by now he is certainly up to speed in this matter.
Peter Cartier-If you want to address the newest member directly
feel free to do that. I am speaking for myself.
Councilman Montesi-Behind the issue some of the Board members are
asking why at this point? In all candor I recall a letter that
the Planning Board sent to the Town Board and specifically said
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we certainly would appreciate if you put into place 'whatever you
are going to call it an ove~lay zone for affordable housing or if
it is for senior citizens but we would like to see you put that
in place as quickly as possible for one reason, every time you
address a rezoning in some way, shape, form or matter you are
degrading or dissolving the master plan. It was my feeling that
you were going to put some teeth behind that request you let it
set for awhile we did get a draft statement from the Planning
Dept. from Ms. Lee York, here is an idea look at it and review
it, we as a Town Board have not done that todate. Is that one of
the things that is bothering the Planning Board also...
Mr. Caimano-What bothers me and I do not know what kind .of teeth
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you want, you have... with the people who work for the Town if
you do not get what you want from the Planning Dept. they work
for you. If you do not like what you get from the Planning Dept.
tell the Planning Dept. we cannot do anything about it, we have
made the request I would like to see that otherwise we are in the
same hassle every time somebody comes up.
Superv i sor Bargas-We a 11 want' that we have not put it on the back
burner...
Peter Cartier-I think what Ron is referring to is that part of
the difficulty we are having and my answer is no as far as I am
concerned it is an entirely separate issue.
Jim Martin-I am not using SEQRA as this wrench in the works
, behind this project and targeting this specifically.
Councilman Monahan-I would just like a clarification for the
people who do not know what is going on here, what we got from
the Planning Dept. on affordable housing overlay zone has not
even been critique by the Town Board so we are not saying that
the work is not up to snuff, what we are saying is we have not
taken the time to sit down and have workshop, they have done
their part we have not done ours.
Supervisor Bargas-The other issue is if you are truly concerned
about the environmental impact and I think you are, I recognize
the fact and this Town Board recognizes the fact that even if we
do a rezoning you will still have site plan review control and
final authority as far a environmental concerns. You will have
all the authority needed as far a determining where any on site
water retainage is any type of road layout networks all those
things are totally withjn your power not subject to review by the
Town Board, so I am wondering why if you still have that
authority why you are seeking to get this authority.
Peter Cartier-We are talking about two different things here, we
are talking a rezoning vs a subdivision.
Supervisor Borgos-Rezoning will only change the density.
Peter Cartier-That is a major issue, a major environmental issue.
Supervisor Bargas-In this particular case however what is being
asked for is almost identical to what the entire surrounding
neighborhoods are.
Peter Cartier-I cannot_ comment on that because I am nÞt familiar
with that. I am not sure for me if that would be a justification
for increasing the density of this area at least from the
planning perspective. If the density is that high in that area
there are some problems and I think we would be making the
problem worse if we did something like that.
Council~an Kurosaka-Addressing the Planning Board, you have made
up your mind that those lots are not big enough how can you make
an objective decision as lead agency when you have already made
up your mind. We haven't as the Town Board. You have already
rev i ewed <~ it and made recommendat ions we are the Board that you.
make the recommendations to, we are the only peoþT~ that can give
a zoning change, how can yqu make an objective decision on a
recommendation that you have already made?
Peter Cartier-I think this board capable of making such an
objective decision.
Councilman Kurosaka-I do not understand it,
conflict of interest myself.
I think it is a
'Ed Lapoint-Would it be appropriate to just go back on the record
and make another motion...
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(It was noted that the Planning Board is still
in session)
Councilman Monahan-As many of you know I am a real stickler on
SEDRA and I really take them apart. I really think the
responsibility for SEDRA'on a rezoning belongs to the'Town Board
because our responsibilities are much different and much greater
than yours. Ours are rea 11 y \ pertai n i ng to we have to be more
aware of social needs we have to be aware of long range impacts
and I would just ask the Planning Board if I have seen you people
work on a SEDRA review have any of you come to a Town Board
meeting and watched the ,Town Board work on a SEDRA Review?
Carol Pulver-I have, you are right you do take them apart, bit,
by bit, by bit. You are very through.
'Peter Cartier-Is there anyone sitting on this Board who is
willing to change his vote from the last time, if there is
someone willing to change their vote then a motion is appropriate
if no one is willing to change the vote then we are just spinning
'our whee 1 s.
Ed Lapoint-I would like to go
not think we should ask how we
the vote.
on the record again myself,
are going to vote before we
I do
make
Nicholas Caimano-The record should be clear as to how the vote
was and what the vote was on.
Peter Cartier-Then if we are going to have a motion we are going
to have to go through the scenario that we went through last time
and that is to rescind our previous motion...
(Attorney Dusek noted that the two boards could have a
simultarieous meeting....the planning board had not adjourned from
its meeting which started earlier in the evening...)
(PLANNING BOARD)
MOTION TO RESCIND
INTRODUCED BY MR. LAPOINT SECONDED BY MR. CAIMANO
Motion to rescind the motion
Status for the Town Planning
Change of. Zone.
of May 8th assuming Lead Agency
Board regarding Pl-91 the Diehl
Mr. Hagan-No
Mr. Caimano-Yes
Mr. Martin-No
Mr. Brewer-Abstain
Mr. LaPoint-Yes
'Mrs. Pulver-Yes
Mr. Cartier-No
Superviso~ Bargas-As an outsider sitting in on your meeting at
the moment we thank you I would just comment I do not know how
long it is going to take for your newest member to do the
research on this issue.
Tim Brewer-It's not that I didn't, I did not have any of the
minutes as of yet because I was advised to stay out of it:by' our
PI anner.
Supervisor Bargas-You were advised to stay out of this by your
Planner?
Tim Brew~r-I won't say that I was advised to stay out of it 1 was
. asked if I wanted to get involved- with it and I said at this
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point, I am not sure what meeting it was...
Carol Pulver-I had asked that he have all the minutes to all the
meetings
Tim Brewer-I have not read any of the minutes of any of the
meet i ngs.
Supervisor Borgos-When we appointed you, from that moment on you
became a fully active, fully accredited member of that Planning
Board.
Tim Brewer-And this was prior to me being appointed, this started
and I said that I would abstain from all voting on this issue.
Peter Cartier-Normally what happens when we g.t a new member,
Steve, is if there is any old business still pending, new members
tend t'o abstain simply because they have not been involved in
everyth i ng.
Supervisor Borgos-I would agree with some of the detailed things
related to specific project but something of the magnitude of
this and with all of the publicity of this and with all the
information available about this subject over such a prolonged
period of time I cannot imagine anybody not getting involved.
Nicholas Caimano-But in all fairness Steve, we have had the
action here we have been around a' year or more I do not think we
should hang it on one new person I think that is unfair, and I do
not think we should do that. Mr. Brewer, we all have our own
choke points and he is abstaining for his own good reasons.
Supervisor Borgos-He is entitled to,
what he wants to do.
under the law he may do
TOWN BOARD RESOLUTION
RESOLUTION TO REQUEST DEC COMMISSIONER TO DESIGNATE LEAD AGENT
RESOLUTION 393, 1991, Introduced by Mr. Ronald Montesi who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Mrs. Marilyn Potenza:
RESOLVED, 'that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
requests the DEC Commissioner to make the decision as to Lead
Agent in the Diehl Rezoning request.
Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1991 by the following vote:
Ayes: Mr. Kurosaka, Mrs. Potenza, Mr. Montesi, Mrs. Monahan, Mr.
Borgos
Noes: None
Absent: None
On motion the Queensbury Town Board adjourns.
(Town Planning Board)
Peter Cartier-Asked the Attorney if they should have similar
resolution...and questioned the forms to be used...
Attorney Dusek-Noted that there is no forms, a letter form
application and submit the documentation...you should entertain a
motion on your board...
MOTION REQUESTING DEC COMMISSIONER TO DESIGNATE LEAD AGENT
INTRODUCED BY MR. CAIMANO
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SECONDED BY MR. MARTIN
RESOLVED, that the Queensbury Planning Board hereby requests the
DEC Co..issioner to .akè the decision as to Lead Agent in the
Diehl Rezoning request.
Duly adopted this 22nd day of July, 1991 by the following vote:
All in favor
On motion the Queensbury Planning Board adjourns...
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