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1991-09-26 SP "--- -..;. IJ,IEENSIIJRY PlNIUNG BOARD SPECIAL IEETING SEPTEtlJER 26TH. 1991 INDEX Subdivision No. 6-88 Jeffrey A. Ki1martin 1. Site P1an No. 24-91 Harris Bay Yacht C1ub 1. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. o '- -. IJ,IEENSIIJRY PuutNING BOARD SPECIAL IEETING SEPTEtlJER 26TH. 1991 4:00 P.M. IEtlJERS PRESENT PETER CARTIER, CHAIRMAN CAROL PULVER, SECRETARY JAMES MARTI N JAMES HAGAN EDWARD LAPOINT NICHOLAS CAIMANO IEtlJERS ABSENT TI MOTHY BREWER SENIOR PuutNER-LEE YORK STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI MR. CARTIER-Okay. Basica11y, a11 you're doing is authorizing me to sign a my1ar beyond the 60 day time period. Do you want to give them another 60 days? Great. MRS. YORK-Yes. Sixty days to get a my1ar. MRS. PULVER-Is 60 days going to be enough? MICHAEL KUZAK MR. KUZAK-Yes, depending on which my1ar we're ta1king about. MRS. YORK-The Ki1martin my1ar. MR. KUZAK-We're going to have to redo the Ki1martin? MRS. YORK-Right. MR. KUZAK-Okay. Fine. MR. CARTIER-Are we ready to entertain a motion? MOTION TO AUTHORIZE THE CHAIRMAN TO SIGN THE MYLAR ENTITLED JEFFREY A. KII..M\RTIN SUBDIVISION NO. 6-88 FOR THE PURPOSES OF OBTAINING flECESSARY FIIlAflCING. THE APPROVAL BEING EFFECTIVE FOR A PERIOO OF 60 DAYS FROM THIS DATE, Introduced by James Martin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Caro1 Pu1ver: Du1y adopted this 26th day of September, 1991, by the fo11owing vote: AYES: Mrs. Pu1ver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Cartier NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer, Mr. LaPoint MR. KUZAK- Thank you very, very much. MRS. YORK-Okay. Bring the roy1ar to my office and then I'll contact the Chairman. MR. KUZAK- Thank you very much. SITE PuutNO. 24-91 HARRIS BAY YACHT CWB BAY ROAD fIORTH TO ROOTE 9L AT DUNHAM1S BAY ON lAKE GEORGE. RIGHT ON 9L TO HARRIS BAY JIM MILLER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT MR. CARTIER-Okay. The reason this meeting was ca11ed, basica11y, 1et me see if I can offer you a synopsis of this. If I misstate anything or I 1eave anything out, fee1 free to add it. You wi11 reca11 Harris Bay Yacht C1ub came in to insta11 a new ramp and we stipu1ated in our motion, based on what we had been to1d at that meeting that a11 excavation wou1d be done from the shore. Nothing wou1d be a 11 owed out in the water. Subsequent to that, my understandi ng is they hi red a contractor who was not invo1ved in the approva1 process in front of us. When the contractor got there, he rea1ized he cou1d not do what they intended to do without getting some equipment out from shore, doing some excavation from shore. So, at that point, I'll drop it in your 1ap and ask you to exp1ain to us exact1y what it is you wou1d 1ike to do and what you are requesting us to do. 1 '-' MR. MILLER-My name's Jim Miller and I was the landscape architect that did the original application and as, we have a permit from the Department of Environmental Conservation. We have a copy of it here, and what happened is, a couple of things. Once we started investigating, the contractor, one of the concerns is being in sort of a wetland area where the marina was built, the sub-grade is very soft and hi s concern was once the concrete's removed to get out there and do the gradi ng, he's goi ng to start sinking and have these other problems, so we started talking about how we were going to go about this, and we agreed that we were going to come in, put some large stone down first, as a base, and then put the finer stone on top and eventually the precast ramp, as we had tal ked about, and then we got discussing how he would compact the stone and the type of equipment. Well, he was going to use a large backhoe, but it has, like a 20 foot reach, which isn't quite enough to get out to the end of the ramp. The old ramp, there's probably, between 25 and 30 feet of it are actually in the water. So, we went to DEC and talked to them about it and what our proposal was, to DEC, was that, and we've got to bring some of these cobbles in, we'd like to do is, what they told us was no equipment in the water also. They said they don't mind if the wheels are in, but they don't want anything up near the axle or, and that's fine. We don't want to do that anyway. So, what we talked about was putting these cobbles in, removing the old ramp, putting the cobbles in, actually filling a little bit to work off, and then that would do some other things for us. It would help to compact those cobbles in the area where we're going to get the freezing along the shoreline, and then as they work their way back out of, back towards shore, we'd remove these cobbles, and we proposed that to DEC and we got copies of a 1 etter here from Joe Pra 11 who signed the permit and there's a bunch of copi es here so you can all look at this, and he basically approved it, and, to tell you the truth, since we weren't going into the lake with the equipment and DEC approved it under their permit, and it never dawned on me that we'd have to come back here, until Dave Hatin stopped by and said there may be a problem. So, that's what we were planning to do, and we silt screen up to start the excavation in accordance to your approval and DEC's approval and we were getting ready to start the excavation when this came up. So, I guess, at this point, what we'd like to do this afternoon is ask that you approve what we've got approved from DEC to, if you think that's right. We figure it's going to take about two days to have this in and then everything will be removed and we'll be finished. MR. HAGAN-I have a stupid question to ask you, based on experience, on 13th Lake and also Lake George. When I wanted to bring in a foreign product that was not native to the Lake itself, both 13th Lake and Lake George, the Adirondack Park Commission made me get the stone, actually what I was putting in was tailing, analyzed to make sure they were not harmful to the water. Now, are you aware of any such thing? MR. MILLER-Well, we wrote a letter, the Adirondack Park Agency? MR. HAGAN-Yes. MR. MILLER-Yes. We wrote a letter to the Adirondack Park Agency telling them what we were going to do. As a matter of fact, it was an exact copy of what my original appl ication was to the Town, and I got a letter in my file that it's in DEC's jurisdiction, you know, as far as the filling and excavation within the waterway. So, they signed off on it, and they didn't, and in there we said we were going to excavate and we were going to put new sub-base material and tree catch ramp. MR. HAGAN-They made me go to the expense to get the tailings, which came from the old garnet mine out there, which was a native product. I had to get it analyzed to prove it was not detrimental to the welfare of the Lake. MR. MILLER-Well, we're getting it from a gravel pit right down the road. MR. HAGAN-Okay. MR. CAIMANO-The original approval, here, March 27th's, clearly indicates, heavy equipment shall not be driven in the water. MR. MILLER-Yes. Well, we're not going to, and that's why we went back and talked to DEC about it and they said, basically, what they're going to let us do is put stone, and work off of stone. We're not going to be in the water. We're going to be on the stone, and then. MR. LAPOINT-The dimensions of that, approximate? MR. MILLER-I don't know. I'm guessing we're probably only going out to about. MR. LAPOINT-You need 10 feet, right? MR. MILLER-Ten to fifteen feet, well, there abouts. I don't have the exact dimensions. MR. LAPOINT-So, you need a little bit of a toe on it, right? MR. MILLER-Yes, and then the stone, we're going to excavate it back out before we set the concrete in, like we've gotten the approvals for. 2 '- --..../ MR. MARTIN-So, you're essentially building a temporary ramp out onto the water to place the heavy equipment and then you're removing the temporary ramp and putting in your precast concrete. MR. LAPOINT-Quick question for you. Is there any way you can avoid using stone and even used a precast type ramp? MR. MILLER-Well, that's what we're going to do, but this is underneath, because what happens, we've got, it's a very silty, fine condition. It's an old, the site... wetland... You could never build there. So, it's very fine. So, once we saw what the material was, we wanted to put some larger cobble in, then we're going to put the gravel on top, and then the..precast ramp. Actually, it's an interesting system. It fits together like a puzzle and it's got tye rods through it. So, we have to, basically, clamp it like a wood clamp, and it's bolted and holds there. So, when it freezes and thaws, it'll just move. So, that's the problem. The old one that's there now, with that silty material. It just busted up. So, we expect this one here to last us a long time. MR. LAPOINT-So, your base is going to be, like, two or three foot diameter stone? MR. MILLER-It probably won't be that big. It's going to be cobbles from the gravel pit. So, I envision it's going to be 12 inch to 6 inch range. MR. MARTIN-Is this a backhoe driving onto the ramp, the temporary ramp? MR. MILLER-Yes, and what they'll do is they'll remove the top part of the ramp. Start to place the stone to get out on, remove the bottom, and place the stone and work their way back to shore. The precast sections are going to be set with a crane that we have for 1 aunching the boat. So, once the stone is set, we won't need the backhoe anymore. MR. CARTIER-This isn't bank run stuff. It's all clean cobble? MR. MILLER-It's clean cobble. It's what's screened out from the bank run. It's the course material, and part of the reason we're using that it's got the least amount of sediment and stuff to it, so the water won't get that dirty, so they can see what they're doing. MR. LAPOINT-Are you going to put a fence around it? MR. MILLER-Apparently, a silt screen fence is in there already. They were ready to start when Dave Hatin stopped by and talked to the contractor about it. MR. CARTIER-Somewhere the number 48 feet came up. Does that mean anything, 48 feet? Maybe it was when I was talking to Mike on the phone. You're not going out 48 feet from shore with this ramp or anything? I don't know where that number comes from. MR. MILLER-I don't know. We, originally, had measured the original ramp. It's 16 feet wide by approximately 40 feet. What we're doing is, I don't know if he's measured and, what we're going to do is replace what's there, you know, whatever sections are there, we're going to replace. The permit says 16 by 40 and maybe a little more or a little less. I'm not exactly sure. We haven't re-checked that. MR. CARTIER-But this temporary work ramp you put in is not 48 feet? MR. MILLER-That has nothing to do with the 48, no. He's got a 20 foot reach, and we're probably out into the Lake about 35 feet. So, it's going to be around 15 feet. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MR. MILLER-Like I say, it's probably only going to be there for a day. This is not going to be a long term situation. We envision it's going to take us a day to get the stone base in and a day to, of course, this is the designer talking. The contractor's not here to tell us, but it is a very short time. As a matter of fact, we're trying to get it finished, so we can start hauling the boats. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MR. MARTIN-My opinion would be to defer to DEC on this. If they're approving it. MR. CAIMANO-I'd say it's all right. MR. CARTIER-Well, then, basically, what we need here is a motion amending our previous motion, and approving that amendment. MR. MARTIN-An amendment which allows installation of this temporary ramp for. MR. CARTIER-Here's the original motion, and this is what we'd be changing. 3 - MR. CAIMANO-I think you've got to do a whole separate motion. MR. CARTIER-Would it be more appropriate to rescind that motion and come up with a new motion? Does that make more sense? MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. CAIMANO-It would make it easier. MR. CARTIER-Okay. MOTION TO RESCIND tØTION ON SITE PINt 10. 24-91 IN VIEW OF NEW EVIDENCE, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver: Duly adopted this 26th day of September, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Martin, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Hagan, Mr. Cartier NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer MR. CAIMANO-Okay. Now we start over again. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PINt NO. 24-91 HARRIS BAY YACHT CWB, Introduced by Nicholas Caimano who moved for its adoption, seconded by James Martin: For the installation of two parking lot 1 ights, construction of three wood fence dumpster enclosures to replace the existing deteriorated enclosures and replacement of the precast concrete boat launch ramp, with the following provisions: That work will be done from the shore and no excavating equipment will be allowed to operate directly in the water. In addition, a spun bound synthetic fiber fabric will be used for effective containment of suspended sediment material disturbed during construction operations in the lake. In addition, the applicant has received permission from DEC to construct a temporary stone work area in Lake George to complY with Special Condition Number Five, which is to keep equipment out of the water. Once work of this station is completed, the stone is then to be used for base material for the outer ramp or removed. Reference should be made to DEC Permit No. 5-5234-00212/00001-1. Duly adopted this 26th day of September, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Martin, Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer MR. MILLER-Thank you very much. MRS. YORK-I did want to mention to you, Keith Harris did not bring in any new information by the deadline date. You told him to do that, but you didn't stipulate that as part of your motion. You just said, you just told him to do it and then you passed the motion saying, basically, that you would review it at your next meeting. How do you want to handle it? MR. LAPOINT-Well, he's bound by normal procedures, now, is all I can say, right? If he missed his deadline, I mean, we can't put everything in our motion. If he missed it, he missed it. MR. CARTIER-Well, we have two choices, two options. One is to toss him off the agenda, or leave him on the agenda and when he comes, when that item comes up, we re-motion and indicate a deadl ine date that he's got to submit something by. MR. CAIMANO-From a time frame, just tell him that he's off the agenda. MRS. YORK-Okay. Would you 1 ike to tell him, you know, have me write him a little letter saying that he would be off the agenda until he can bring something in by a deadline date? MR. CAIMANO-Yes, but don't let him think he can be on this meeting agenda. MRS. YORK-Well, the thing is, Nick, it's been in litigation. He's been told to get the pigs off the property or come to site plan review and be able to move them to a different location other than what the judge designated. So, this is still, like with one. MRS. PULVER-Why give him a site plan review, he hasn't done anything, right? 4 '- - MRS. YORK-Right. See, he's done nothing, and I know the zoning..a few months waiting for him to get his paperwork together and this and that. MR. MARTIN-I'll toss this out, in light of the extenuating circumstances with this particular case. While we're all here, this is a formal meeting, we could consider a motion to have Lee call him with a date. Say, you know, a week from tomorrow or something, and with the intent of getting this to move and get it done with. MRS. PULVER-Yes, okay. What about doing that, yes, say, okay, by next Thursday you need to have whatever it is we want and if you don't, okay, you're off the meeting and then you should consider moving your pigs or whatever it is until the whole thing gets resolved. MRS. YORK-Or he'd have to re-apply. MRS. PULVER-I mean, how long is the Town and everybody supposed to go along with this? MR. CARTIER-We have to act within 45 days on this, beyond this time thing, this submission. So, in other words, if we don't act within 45 days, it's automatically approved. So, we still have within this 45 days to do, this Board has to do something with that application, and if he doesn't submit, then the only application we have to act on is the original application which we told him to modify. MR. HAGAN-The original application's not acceptable. MRS. PULVER-That was tabled, wasn't it? Right. MR. CARTIER-Okay. Well, but that's the only application we have to vote on at that point. I'm not saying vote to approve. I'm just saying vote on it. MR. HAGAN-Okay. MR. CARTIER-Okay. Well, what's your druthers, here. MRS. PULVER-I get awfully distressed that people have somehow found ways to to make the system work for them. MRS. YORK-Yes. MR. CAIMANO-Well, in this case, what Peter is saying is, if we don't do anything, if we don't do what you said, if he forgets and he doesn't do what he's supposed to do, then we can vote on this thing, and if he hasn't corrected..we can throw it out. MRS. PULVER-Yes, but what I'm saying is that, in the meantime, he's gotten a couple of extra months from the Zoning Administrator. He's gotten a couple of extra months from us, not really, but yes he has, by just the stall, and it just hasn't worked out, and now we're going to give him a couple of more months, because we have 45 days. MR. CAIMANO-From his last submission, right? MRS. PULVER-No. From the time we notify him, don't we? MRS. YORK-You have 45 days to act, when he agreed to table, he tabled to your next meeting. MRS. PULVER-All right. MRS. YORK-Your next meeting is within 30 days, but you could take 15 days more. MR. MARTIN-The other thing I would remind, and I think I'm right on this, Lee, maybe you could help me out. Remember, now, this is not a question of whether we're determining if this is an allowed use. It is a use permitted by right, it's just that we're determining what form the use is allowed. We cannot deny him the fact, he can come in the very next month with another site plan for our consideration. MRS. YORK-That's right. MR. MARTIN-So, it's not like once we say no, then, the pigs are gone forever. MRS. PULVER-No, but my point is that he was told to, he has not moved the pigs, period. Didn't he have a court order to move the pigs some place? MR. CARTIER-Or come to site plan. 5 ~ MRS. PULVER-Okay, or come to site plan. He's come to site plan, but now, just because of the whole process, you know, he's...time is going along, and I would like, in 45 days, if he hasn't submitted, that, okay, it's done, it's over. Those pigs have to be moved. I don't think he should keep going on and on and on. MR. MARTIN-But he's just the type of guy that would move them six feet and say, yes, I moved them. MRS. YORK-No. He has to move them to where the judge designated. MR. MARTIN-Okay. MR. HAGAN-Specifically, what did the court order? MRS. PULVER-He had to go to the blue square. MRS. YORK-Yes. MR. CARTIER-The court said you can move the pigs back to where they originally were in the blue square, or if you want to place them some place else, you must go through the site plan process, okay. MR. HAGAN-But they didn't specify any time limit in their court order? MR. CARTIER-No. MRS. YORK-Well, see, the thing is, the pigs are in violation. They've been in violation. MRS. PULVER-I am in favor of whatever it will take to get him to act, and if he doesn't act, then he's out of the pig business. MR. MARTIN-I say we give him a time limit. MR. CARTIER-Time limit to get in on this agenda, this October agenda, where he's already got a slot on the agenda? MR. MARTIN-Right. He's already there, anyhow. MR. CARTIER-If he doesn't get it in on that time, are you saying you want to act on it that night? MR. LAPOINT-Yes. MR. MARTIN-That's up to the rest of the Board. MR. CARTIER-Okay, one way or the other. I think that would address what Carol said. MR. CAIMANO-As Carol said, this guy...system, and he stands up there and beats his breast about what a great citizen he is. MR. CARTIER-See, he may not even know about the 45 day time limit, okay. He may think that, as long as he drags this out. MRS. PULVER-Well, I just think, if he truly wants these pigs, and he wants the animals, he will make every effort to get here with the information, and if he doesn't then he's... MOTION REGARDING SITE PINt NO. 43-91 KEITH HARRIS TO CONSTRUCT A POLE BARIl FOR RAISING LIVESTOCK, Introduced by James Martin who moved for its adoption, seconded by Nicholas Caimano: The applicant must have a revised site plan to the Town Planning Office by 2 p.m., Thursday, October 3rd in order for the revised plan to be considered at the October 15th meeting, at which time the revised site plan or the site plan currently filed will be acted upon. Duly adopted this 26th day of September, 1991, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Hagan, Mr. LaPoint, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin, Mr. Caimano, Mr. Cartier NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Peter Cartier, Chairman 6