1992-06-16
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 16TH, 1992
INDEX
Site P1an No. 55-91
OSCAP , lTD.
1.
Subdivision No. 11-1991
FINAL STAGE
Sunset Hi11 Farm
2.
Subdivision No. 5-1992
PRELIMINARY STAGE
Sherman Pines
3.
Site P1an No. 19-92
Jerry Brown
4.
Site P1an No. 20-92
Har01d We11er
DBA We11er's Garage
6.
Site P1an No. 26-92
Debora Mi11er/lisa Fifie1d
7.
Site P1an No. 78-89
James Finnecy
7.
Subdivision No. 7-1992
FINAL STAGE
Geneva Estates
8.
Site P1an No. 28-92
Peter J. Enzinna
10.
Site P1an No. 34-92
Tota1 Recoi1 Bungee, Inc.
29.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIAllY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WIll
APPEAR ON THE FOllOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WIll STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 16TH, 1992
7:05 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
JAMES MARTIN, CHAIRMAN
CAROL PULVER, SECRETARY
EDWARD LAPOINT
TIMOTHY BREWER
CORINNE TARANA
JAMES LAURICELLA
SENIOR P~R-lEE YORK
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
April 21st, 1992: Page 31, Joe lavatore is speaking, sib labatore, not lava tore
MOTION TO APPROVE APRIL 21ST, 1992 MINUTES AS CORRECTED, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Carol PUlver:
DUlY adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the fOllowing vote:
AYES: Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Puiver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauriceiia, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. MARTIN-Okay. I think that's it. We have a speciai request from Mr. Schachner regarding a coupie
of issues. I'B just deviate, sHghtly, from the agenda to deal with that. It should onlY take a
coupie of minutes. Do you want to address the Board?
MARK SCHACHNER
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. Thank you, Mr. Martin. Which would you like to talk about first?
MR. MARTIN-WeB, why don't we do the thing that's not part of the agenda, the totaBy new request,
and we'll see how everyone feeis.
MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. The thing that's not on the agenda, the request is on behalf of OSCAP, lTD, or
Dexter Shoe Company. I think this is a matter that's been previousiy considered by this Board, however
it was recentlY re-referred to the Warren County Pianning Board, which issued a new decision Wednesday
evening. I'm sorry. That wouid be last night, Monday evening, and we wouid now request that this
Board aiso reconsider the matter. We would request, on behalf of Dexter, that that reconsideration,
if possibie, occur as part of Oid Business at your reguiariy scheduled meeting next week. I'm tOld
by the Warren County Pianning Board's Secretary, that Pianning Board's decision and new recommendation
has been forwarded to you aH, aithough I think it was put in the maiL So, you probabiy don't have
it.
MRS. YORK-No. We have it today.
MR. SCHACHNER-You do have it? I aiso have copies here, if you'd 'like, but in addition, what I don't
believe you have is the minutes from the County Pianning Board meeting yesterday, and she has informed
me that you wiil have those before your next meet next week, on Tuesday.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-So, we would request, if possibie, that you agree to reconsider that next Tuesday, and
to be honest, aii we have in mind, I've discussed this with the Town Attorney, and he agrees that this
would be an appropriate procedure for proceeding, is when we say reconsideration, aH we reaHy think
is necessary, since there's no new information.
MR. MARTIN-That was one of my questions. I didn't think that there would be.
MR. SCHACHNER-No. There's no new information. ReaHy, in my view, and the Town Attorney agrees with
this, this is a matter of procedurai T crossing and I dotting. Since the County Pianning Board has
issued a new recommendation, Mr. Dusek and I both feei that it wouid be appropriate for this Board
to simpiy renew the motion that it previousiy made, and to vote again on that motion.
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MR. MARTIN-Okay. Is that a probiem for Staff, first of ali, you have aii the information in your fiie,
right? Nothing's changed. How's everyone feei about that?
MR. LAPOINT-I wouid just, seeing as how I can't recaH what, I beHeve I made the motion, I'd Hke
a copy of that in front of me that next meeting, and I wouid be, it wouid be acceptabie to me.
MR. MARTIN-But you have no probiem with adding it to the next agenda?
MR. LAPOINT-Correct, but in order for me to do anything, I need my originai motion that resuited.
MR. MARTIN-Weii, I think we have that right in the fiie.
MRS. YORK-Yes. We can puii that out for you.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MR. BREWER-No probiem.
MRS. PULVER-No probiem.
MR. LAURICElLA-I won't be here the next meeting. I don't have any probiem.
MR. MARTIN-Corinne, you have no probiem with that?
MRS. TARANA-No.
MR. MARTIN-I certainiy have no probiem. I wouid be more than happy to accommodate the request, then.
MR. SCHACHNER-That wouid be great. Thank you very much. We assume it wiil be very brief.
MRS. PULVER-In fact, I may suggest that maybe we put them first on the agenda, first before 0id Business.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MRS. YORK-As iong as we're discussing next week's agenda, I also have a coup1e of requests. One's
regarding Sunset Hiii Farm. Due to an internai matter, the engineer has not been abie to review this.
I accept fun responsibiJity and I have taìked to the appHcant and the engineer and they have all
agreed that they would agree to a tabHng of this if we would review it next week. I spoke to Mr.
Schachner earlier and explained the situation to him.
MR. MARTIN-I think we're in a fortunate position that we have only a week to wait. So, it'll make
next week a little longer, but.
MR. BREWER-That's fine.
MRS. YORK-We have a problem with Sherman Pines, also, because of the submission date and the time frame
in which that was, which we will discuss after this meeting. Our engineer has not been able to review
that, and I was going to request, also, that that be placed on next week's agenda.
MRS. PULVER-You mean Preliminary Stage, which is for tonight, should be placed for next week?
MRS. YORK-Right.
MRS. PULVER-Next week was going to be Final, wasn't it?
MRS. YORK-That will be removed. The agent for the applicant is here this evening, if you want to discuss
it, and he has also been informed.
MR. MARTIN-All right. Well, we'll probably need a resolution, or a motion for the tabling on, we can
at least accommodate Sunset Hill, here. You are in agreement, I assume?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, sir.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, could someone make a motion to table until next week?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. Do we need a motion to put OSCAP on the agenda, also?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Why don't we do that one first, and then Sunset.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Now, there's those two. We don't want to lump Sherman Pines in that, too?
MRS. YORK-No. I think we should discuss that with this applicant for a minute.
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MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MOTION TO RECONSIDER SITE PLAN NO. 55-91 OSCAP, lTD. AS THE FIRST AGE.DA OLD BUSINESS FOR THE MEETING
OF THE 23RD OF JUNE, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
Duly adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauricella, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
Il~MOTION TO PLACE SUBDIVISION NO. 11-1991 SUNSET HIll FARM ON NEXT WEEK'S AGENDA AT THE END OF OLD
~VI BUSINESS, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
If '/ Pending the Engineer's review of the project.
Duly adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Tarana. Mr. làuricella, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MRS. YORK-If we could just spend a minute on the Sherman Pines issue, and I would like a moment to
speak to the Board after the meeting regarding these items. There's a couple of issues here. First
of all, because of the cyc1e of events here, our engineer did not have the opportunity to review it.
Also, in reviewing the plans today myself. I did find a couple of minor errors. For example, the phasing
on the plan was incorrect, and that was to be correct for the PreHminary Stage. Also, there are no
access-ways, to any great extent, provided to the common areas, and if they are to be utilized as common
areas, to the benefit of the citizens that live there, the Board may want to encourage that kind of
thing. The reason I'm bringing this up is, if the applicant is going to wait a week, because of the
engineer's inabiJity to review his plans, because they were submitted late, as the Board al1owed, he's
really in a position where he's going to have to re-submit some new plans, and this Board is in a
position to either al10w him or not allow him to do that. We're kind of in a very awkward position,
here, is what I'm telling you, and I would recomend that you allow the app1icant to re-submit some
plans with these minor adjustments taken care of on them, within the next day or two.
MRS. PUlVER-I don't have a problem with that, since they're not engineering concerns.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-What's your feeling on that, Wilson?
WILSON MATHIAS
MR. MATHIAS-What we want to do is have a plan that's going to be approvable. So. if we need to make
some minor changes, obviously, we'll do that. We'd like you to consider us for the Pre1iminary Stage
approval at next week's meeting.
MR. MARTIN-Right. My question is, we opened the public hearing on that, and it's left open, I believe,
right?
MR. MATHIAS-It's my understanding it is.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I think we did leave it open, as I recal1. Okay. So, yes, that'll give time for
engineering comments to be resolved, and then also for you to make these minor changes on your plan.
Do you want a deadline date, lee, for these new sets?
MRS. YORK-Why don't we discuss it tomorrow, and I think within the next two days the changes can be
easily worked out.
MR. MATHIAS-That's fine.
MR. MARTIN-Well. I'm glad we only lose a week, here. We're in a fortunate position. Okay. How does
everybody feel about that, then, allow re-submission of some plans and we'll discuss it next time,
and resolution of the engine~ring comments? All right. Could I have a motion, then, for a tabling?
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MOTION TO TABLE SUBDIVISIOI NO. 5-1992 PRELIMINARY STAGE SlERJU PINES TO THE JUNE 23RD PLANNING
BOARD MEETING, Introduced Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Carol Pulver:
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Pending the Engineer's review and corrections to the plan with respect to Staff's Notes discussed
tonight. The plan is to be re-submitted at a mutuany agreeable date, as determined by lee York and
the applicant.
DUly adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauricella, Mr. LaPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pulver, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE (7:20 p.m.)
MR. MARTIN-All right, then. I think we can finallY get into the regular agenda, here.
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 19-92 TYPE II LI-lA JERRY BRCIIN (lINER: SAME AS ABOVE IfARREN STREET TO CONSTRUCT
A 6 FOOT STOCKADE FENCE RUNNING PARAlLEL TO WARREN STREET ON THE WEST SIDE OF EXISTING BUILDINGS.
(WARREN coom PLANNING) TAX MP 110. 110-1-23 LOT SIZE: +13.92 ACRES SECTION: 179-14 (TABLED
PENDING NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING)
MIKE CUSACK, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT (7:20 p.m.)
MRS. YORK-The first item, and the Board has the minutes in their packet from the Zoning Board. My
understanding from those minutes is that Mr. Brown does need a variance for the building that he is
planning to construct. I don't know how the Board feels about moving on the stockade fence, or whether
you feel that that is a part of the entire proposal, here, and you would rather see it as a total.
MR. LAPOINT-Is the applicant here?
MRS. YORK-I believe Mr. Cusack is.
MR. CUSACK-Hi, folks. I'm Mike Cusack, I'm an Attorney for Mr. Brown. With me I have larry Brown,
Vice President of Jerry Brown Used Auto Parts. At this time, I'd like a little bit of clarification,
here. I don't believe what the Zoning Board of Appeals said was that we needed a variance. We already
have a variance for the building itself. I think what they said was it needed site plan review for
the entire project.
MRS. YORK-I'm sorry.
MR. MARTIN-That's how 1 recall it.
MRS. YORK-Excuse me, I was incorrect.
MR. MARTIN-All right. So, do we have enough to go here with, lee?
MRS. YORK-Wen, it was not advertised as a building, due to the time frames involved. What I would
suggest to this Board is that it be tabled until we can re-advertise for the building and the fence
and come back and review the entire plan again, and re-notice the public.
MR. CUSACK-Is there any real problem with dealing with the fence tonight, inasmuch as that's already
been advertised, and that is a separate requirement to your Ordinance?
MRS. YORK-That's entirelY up to this Board?
MR. MARTIN-How does everyone feel about that?
MR. LAPOINT-So, what we'd be doing is just moving on site plan for the fence alone, without considering
the warehouse at all?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. LAPOINT-I have enough to go on, for that.
MR. BREWER-That's fine.
MRS. TARANA-I don't feel one way or the other.
MRS. YORK-let me just say to the Board that I wrote notes on the fence last time we got together.
I did not put those back in because I anticipated that you would review it as a total thing. My notes
did say that I did not see any problems, from a planning perspective, with the fence. There was site
distance. There were no real concerns. It, basicany, improved the site because it negated some of
visual impacts that were down there currentlY.
MR. BREWER-Is that a problem for the applicant to come back, about the fence, just so we can refresh
ourselves with it?
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MR. CUSACK-As to Staff Notes, or?
MR. BREWER-As to the whole application. I can recall looking at the plans and everything. I don't
think there was a problem, but that was last month, right?
MR. MARTIN-I don't know, fences to me always struck me, like with signs, they're always a dimensional
type of a thing, not unless there's some unique circumstances. I don't see why we couldn't deal with
that tonight, as a separate piece.
MR. LAPOINT-You don't have a copy of the sketch with you?
MRS. YORK-I do have the plan.
MR. BREWER-He was just going to put a fence up from the building over to the line, wasn't he?
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. CUSACK-That's correct. The west side of the proposed new structure going to the property line,
consistent with the structure that is located on the east side, so that they would blend, and balance.
MR. BREWER-It was an eight foot fence, ora six foot?
MR. CUSACK-A six foot stockade fence.
MR. LAPOINT-It's only about 30 feet of fence.
MRS. PUlVER-I remembered it was going to be rather insignificant. I don't know why we're having site
plan review for a piece of fence.
MR. LAURICELLA-This piece, here?
MRS. PULVER-Yes. It's that little piece of fence. That's all.
MR. LAURICELLA-The same color as the other?
MR. CUSACK-Same exact. It's going to match.
MR. LAURICELLA-Why are we doing this?
MRS. TARANA-I don't know.
MRS. YORK-I have a copy of the Staff Comments, if you would like me to read them into the record?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. Why don't we do that?
STAFF INPUT
Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site Plan No. 19-92, Jerry Brown, May 12, 1992, Meeting Date:
May 19, 1992 "The applicant requests to construct a fence at the used auto parts and auto sales facility
on Warren Street. There is a memo from the Zoning Administrator and the minutes of the Zoning Board
meeting attached for the Board's review. The fence will help to screen the facility from public view.
The EAF indicates that part of the project is the construction of a 120 x 60 accessory building. The
Zoning Administrator has indicated that this is not under review. The application has a couple of
inconsistencies. The proposed fence is stated as 6 feet and along Warren Street, however, the only
fence shown on the site plan is 8 feet high and about 100 feet removed from Warren Street to the north.
The Board should ascertain the exact location and height of the proposed fence. The appHcation was
reviewed with regard to the criteria for site plan review. 1. Making the assumption that a 6 foot
stockade fence will be installed to the west of the property, there will be no impacts as to the location
arrangement and size. 2. Vehicular access is not a concern. 3. Off street parking and loading is
not an issue. 4. Pedestrian access is not a concern. 5. Storm drainage is not an issue. 6. Water
and sewer disposal are not an issue. 7. The Director of Building and Codes has submitted a letter
requesting that visual impacts be eHminated. 8. Fire and emergency access is not a concern. 9.
Ponding and erosion are not a concern." And I can read Mr. Hatin' s letter into the record, here.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, we have a request, essentiallY, from Dave Hatin, that a fence be put up to improve
the visual impact, right?
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. All right. It's a six foot high fence, some 30 feet long. Does anybody have any
problems, and we don't need a SEQRA on this, as it's Type II. Okay. Could we have a motion. Hold
on. We have a public hearing that we did open, right?
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MRS. YORK-Yes. you did.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. and we did 1eave it open. Is there anyone here from the pubHc to address the Board
on this app1ication?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
JlJTION TO APPROVE APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 19-92 JERRy....... Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved
for its adoption. seconded by Carol Pulver:
To construct a 6 foot stockade fence running paral1el to Warren Street on the west end of the existing
buiJdings. with the fol1owing stipu1ations: That the appHcant re-app1y for site plan review for the
storage building shown on the property and that this approva1 is for the 6 foot fence on1y.
Duly adopted this 16th day of June. 1992. by the f0110wing vote:
AYES: Mr. lauricel1a. Mr. laPoint. Mr. Brewer. Mrs. Pulver. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. CUSACK-Can I ask a question. here. in terms of guidance? I understand the problem that this was
not advertised as a pub1ic hearing for the building itse1f. Is my c1ient expected to submit an entire1y
new application or are we just going to re-advertised based on this. with just this partial approval.
How do you want to hand1e that?
MRS. YORK- I wou 1 d be happy.
bother the Board with that.
Why don't you come on in tomorrow and we'll discuss it. okay, rather than
You and I can hand1e that.
MR. CUSACK-That's fine. Thank you.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. (7:31 p.m.)
SITE PLAN NO. 20-92 TYPE: UNLISTED LI-lA HAROLD WELLER DBA WELLER'S GARAGE (lINER: HERMfI NEAL
VAN ooSEN ROAD TO SEll USED AUTOS TAX MAP NO. 126-1-68.1 LOT SIZE: 1/4 ACRE SECTION 179-26 (TABLED
PENDING NOTICE OF APPEAL)
(7:31 p.m.)
MR. MARTIN-Okay. I be1ieve this is another issue that did require a use variance.
MRS. YORK-I beHeve it was decided. at the Zoning Board of Appea1s. that the applicant required a use
variance.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. So. is there anyone here tonight from the app1icant? I wou1d expect not, probab1y.
MRS. PULVER-So. we are tab1ing this. until he gets his use variance. is that what we're doing?
MRS. YORK-I think that might be appropriate. I don't know how 1ong? Do you want to put some time
frame on this?
MR. MARTIN-I was going to say. Does this. without the app1icant's consent. it starts the c10ck. right?
MRS. YORK-It was tabled previous1y. I don't know what the motion at that time was. Was it tab1ed
pending the outcome of the Zoning Board of Appea1s determination?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's what it says in the notes. here. Yes. it says. tab1ed pending Notice of Appea1.
MRS. YORK-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-How about tab1ed for six months? That's ample time for him to either decide whether or
not he wants to do this business and get his zoning c1eared. Don't you think. six months?
MRS. YORK-Yes. I wou1d give him three months. and then if he needs more time. he can come and ask
you. if he's in the process. A11 he needs to do is write a 1etter.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
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MR. MARTIN-A11 right. So, I guess we're tabJing, then, pending the outcome of a variance. So, couìd
I have a motion to that effect, with a three month time frame?
fl)TION TO TABLE SITE PLAN 110. 20-92 HAROLD WELLER D/B/A WEllER'S GARAGE, Introduced by Caroì Puìver
who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
For a three month period, to September 16th, 1992, pending the outcome of a variance.
Duìy adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the folìowing vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Puìver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauricella, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE (7:34 p.m.)
SITE PLAN NO. 26-92 TYPE: UNLISTED DEBORA MIllER/LISA FIFIELD (MER: TOM AND SAIIOY RIPLEY CORINTH
ROAD - CooNTRY CAFE TO SEll SOFT ICE CREAM FROM A SMAll BUILDING (10' X 19') ON THE PREMISES. (WARREN
coom PLANNING) TAX MAP NO. 126-1-30 LOT SIZE: 2.1 ACRES SECTION: 179-26
(7:34 p.m.)
MRS. YORK-Debora Miììer and lisa Fifield have submitted a ìetter stating that, "We wish to inform the
Board that we respectfu11y withdraw our appJication to se11 ice cream from a sma11 buiìding on the
premises. We thank the Board for your time and help in this matter. Sincerely, Debora B. Mi11er"
So, they have withdrawn.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. We'ìì accept that then.
SITE PLAN NO. 78-89 TYPE II lIR-lA JAMES FINNECY CllNER: SAME AS ABOVE MSON ROAD, CLEVERDALE TO
fl)DIFY 2ND STORY ADDITION TO INCWDE DORMER AND MODIFY ROOFlINE. (IfARREN coom PlANNING) TAX MP
NO. 13-2-41.2, 43, 44 lOT SIZE: +13,460 SQ. FT. SECTION: 179-16
JAMES FINNECY, PRESENT (7:36 p.m.)
STAFF INPUT
Notes from lee A. York, Senior Pìanner, Site Pìan No. 78-89, James Finnecy, June 15, 1992, Meeting
Date: June 16, 1992 "The applicant is modifying a previously approved site pìan. The modification
is Hmited to the roof Hnes and addition of a dormer. The project is in a Critical Environmentaì
Area. A review of the previous minutes on this project revealed that a SEQRA determination was not
done. The modification to the site pìan is a Type II action under SEQRA. The original approvaì was
an unHsted action which becomes a Type I under SEQRA because it is in a CEA. The staff recommends
that under the circumstances the Board do a ìong form which has been attached." And Mr. Finnecy is
here. I have expìained it to his agent this afternoon, that there were a lot of things going on with
this project previously, and it was just overìooked. "This appJication was reviewed with regard to
the criteria for site pìan review. 1. The ìocation arrangement and size of the addition has been
previousìy approved. The modification of the roofìine and addition of the dormer wiìì not substantiaìly
aìter the approvaì. 2. Vehicuìar access is not an issue. 3. Parking and ìoading are not an issue.
4. Pedestrian circuìation is not a concern. 5. Storm drainage wiìì not be increased. 6. Water
and sewer facilities are existing. 7. Buffering and visual impacts are not a concern. 8. Fire and
emergency access is existing from Mason Road. 9. Ponding and fìooding are not an issue. The staff
recommends approvaì of this modification."
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Is there anyone here from the applicant who has anything further to add?
MR. FINNECY-A11 I can say is I'm putting in an addition with two rooms and a bath, and I certainìy
hope that you see fit to approve it.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MRS. PUlVER-I remember this, very weìl.
MR. MARTIN-I'11 open the pubìic hearing. Is there anyone from the pubJic who wishes to address the
Board?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. LAURICELLA-Just for edification, was there a probìem before?
MRS. PULVER-Just a ìot of conversation.
MR. LAURICElLA-A ìot of conversation?
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MRS. YORK-I attached an the minutes of went went on to this, with the Board. If you'd Hke a brief
synopsis, I can give it to you.
MR. LAURICElLA-A11 right.
MRS. YORK-Okay. The project was origina11y tab1ed on 11/28/89. It was then brought back to the Board,
at which point in time, it was denied. It then came back to the Board again, and at that time was
approved, okay, and the minutes are attached. That's as brief as it gets.
PUBLIC HEARING ClOSED
MR. MARTIN-Does anybody else have anything they want to add before we entertain a SEQRA Review. An
right. We11, 1ets give that a whirl and see what happens.
RESOlUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MDE
RESOLUTION NO. 78-89, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Car01 Pu1ver:
WHEREAS, there is present1y before the Planning Board an appHcation for: JAMES FINNECY, To .odify
a second story addition to include doJ'IEr and Edified roofl1ne., and
WHEREAS, this P1anning Board has determined that the proposed project and P1anning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Qua1ity Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The f0110wing agencies are invo1ved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is un1isted in the Department of Environmenta1
Conservation Regulations imp1ementing the State Environmenta1 Qua1ity Review Act and the regu1ations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmenta1 Assessment Form has been completed by the app1icant.
5. Having considered and thorough1y ana1yzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Officia1 Compilation of Codes, Ru1es and
Regu1ations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board win have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the P1anning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and fi1e as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative dec1aration that may be required by 1aw.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the fo110wing vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Does anybody have anything e1se they want to add? If not, then, we'n entertain
a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 78-89 JAMES FINNECY, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
To modify second story addition to inc1ude dormer and modified roof line.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the f0110wing vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE (7:41 p.m.)
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Sherman Pines was next on the agenda. Is there anything else that needs to be done
with that? We're just going to have the tab1ing, then.
SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1992 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED GENEVA ESTATES CllNER: R. MICHAEL ElMDRE EXECUTOR
OF ESTATE OF GENEVA ELMORE NORTH OF RALPH ROAD AND WEST OF tDlARD STREET TEN (10) MOBILE HOME LOTS
OF 15,000 + SQ. FT. WITH ON-SITE SEllAGE DISPOSAL AND IIJNICIPAl WATER TO BE CWSTERED ON +11 ACRES.
TAX MP NO. 120-1-1.1 LOT SIZE: 10.93 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGS
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WILSON MATHIAS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT (7:41 p.m.)
STAFF INPUT
Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Subdivision No. 7-1992, Geneva Estates - Charles Diehl - Final
Stg., June 8, 1992, Meeting Date: June 16, 1992 "This 10 lot subdivision received pre1iminary approval
on May 14, 1992. A11 the planning issues have been previously discussed and addressed. The app1icant
is considering an open space agreement with the Town and may want to request an extension of time to
fi1e the mylar. The Board may want to grant a conditional approval based on the payment of recreation
fees or an agreement with the Town Board which satisfies that criteria within 90 or 180 days (per E
Action of subdivision plat pg. 18327 & 18328)."
MR. MATHIAS-My name is Wi1son Mathias. I'm a lawyer with offices at 525 Bay Road, Queensbury. I
represent Charles A. Diehl, the app1icant. Mr. Diehl and I, too, think that this sets a precedent,
in terms of, hopefu11y, being able to get a project through in just three meetings. It's very
straightforward. It's zoned for this type of use. That's what the Zoning Ordinance provides. I think
it's an innovative plan, in the sense that it's preserving some open space. The trai1er lots are
clustered. I think that it's a positive thing for this part of Queensbury, and it'11 address a market
that my c1ient sees as one that is very viable, which is affordable housing, either single or double
wide units over there, and I think that the planning that's gone into it, that it's going to make it
a nice place to live.
MR. MARTIN-Well, I'm glad to see us taking advantage of the overlay zone.
MR. MATHIAS-I have rea11y no further comment, other than to say that, although I understand that, my
client is anxious to proceed with this, and he may very well pay the recreation fee and just go forward,
so that he can develop this and be in a position to start se11ing something, instead of staying in
the planning process.
MRS. PULVER-That was my question, Wilson, is that Mr. Diehl l! going to sell these lots, not keep them
as rental lots?
MR. MATHIAS-No. The intent is to generate some bucks, here.
MR. MARTIN-So, you are up in the air, in regards to the recreation fee or the dedication of the land?
MR. MATHIAS-It's my understanding, and I spoke with one member of the Recreation Comission this
afternoon, Sharron Simmons, who basica11y stated that the Recreation Commission, the Town Supervisor
and Pliney Tucker, actually, met at the site, did some walking around and at least it was Ms. Simmons'
opinion that the Recreation Commission was not going to be interested in this as a vest pocket type
park or something 1ike that. If we want to develop this further, we'11 go forward in terms of paying
the fee.
MR. MARTIN-But you're going to explore that and get a final answer in the coming days?
MR. MATHIAS-The very coming days. I believe I can see the writing on the wall. There isn't any point
in beating a dead horse, here.
MR. LAPOINT-If we were to give you 30 days to fi1e that mylar and work that a11 out, you could easi1y
make that, then, if that was the only stipulation?
MR. MATHIAS-Yes, I think so.
MRS. YORK-The applicant has 60 days within which to fi1e the mylar, at any rate. Would you want an
extension beyond that?
MR. MATHIAS-I don't think so. I mean, I think we'd like to get going on this and actually have something
available this summer.
MRS. PULVER-They can't get bui1ding permits untU they have either paid the recreation fee, or you
have resolved it.
MRS. YORK-No. What has to happen is we don't give us his mylar to file until he gives us the recreation
fee check.
MRS. PULVER-The recreation fee.
MR. MARTIN-So, there is, then, always the possibility that you may develop the unused plan at a future
date then, if you just pay the recreation fee?
MR. MATHIAS-I suppose so, but we couldn't without getting a variance.
MRS. YORK-Yes, and in the end, if he created any kind of non-pub1ic park, he would have to come back
for review by this Board.
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MR. BREWER-But as it stands right now, if he deve10ps this right here, he can't deve10p this right
here.
MR. MARTIN-He needs a variance.
MRS. YORK-Right. I think what Mr. Mathias was referring to was a sman park for the use of the
residents, potentia11y, but not at this time.
MR. MATHIAS-We're not contemp1ating that. We're not making a 1ast minute change.
MR. MARTIN-That's right. This is the mobi1e home over1ay zone and one acre zoning, right?
MR. BREWER-Right.
MR. MARTIN-An right. Wen, then, I have no prob1em with this, with that condition, then. If it's
an right with you, the recreation fee, and you have your 60 days to determine if you want to pay the
fee or try and work out something on the 1and. I know this Board has just gone through it one time,
and on1y, initiany, I think there has to be some sort of recommendation from this Board to the Town
Board, to entertain accepting the 1and, and we wou1d certain1y be happy to do that at one of our future
meetings, if it does come to a point where you can dedicate the 1and.
MR. MATHIAS-Yes. I suspect that what's going to happen at the next Recreation Comnission Meeting is
that they're going to say it probab1y ought to be preserved for open space, but we don't recommend
that the Town accept it as a recreation area.
MR. MARTIN-We11, just keep us posted then, I guess, is a11 we can say. A11 right. We've gone through
the SEQRA. The pubHc hearing was, I be1ieve, opened and c10sed at the Pre1iminary Stage. Is there
any other questions on the project? If not, does someone have a motion to approve at Fina1?
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1992 FINAL STAGE GENEVA ESTATES, Introduced by Edward laPoint
who moved for its adoption, seconded by Car01 Pu1ver:
Ten (10) mobUe home 10ts of 15,000 + sq. ft. with on-site sewage disposa1 and municipa1 water to be
c1ustered on 11 + acres, with the fonowing condition that the appHcant reach agreement on the basis
for payment of the recreationa1 fee or an agreement with the Town Board which satisfies the recreationa1
fee criteria, within 90 days.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the f0110wing vote:
AYES: Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE (7:50 p.m.)
MR. MARTIN-Okay, and I beHeve we've done the next item earlier on, Sunset HUl Farm. That was tab1ed
unti1 next week. So, we just have the two items of New Business.
NEIl BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 28-92 TYPE: UNLISTED HC-lA PETER J. ENZINNA CJIIER: MILTON LATHAM SOOTH OF TRADING
POST RESTAURANT ADJACENT TO ROOTE 9 BUNGEE JUMPING BUSINESS. (WARREN COUNTY PLAIIIING) TAX MP NO.
36-2-11 lOT SIZE: 5.572 ACRES SECTION: 179-23
PETER ENZINNA, PRESENT; RON RICHARDSON, ALSO PRESENT (7:50 p.m.)
MRS. YORK-Before I read the Staff Notes, it has just been brought to my attention by a Town Board member
who happens to be here, that temporary toUet facUities are not anowed in the Town of Queensbury,
except on, the 1egis1ation reads, "No person shan cause the placement and/or establishment, or aHow
the continued p1acement and/or establishment of one or more temporary toi1et faci1ities on lands within
the Town of Queensbury. This Artic1e shaH not app1y to temporary toUet faci1ities provided for,
A. Emp10yees engaged in construction or, B. Temporary festiva1s or ce1ebrations that 1ast fewer than
five days", okay. This is something that both of these plans have on them, and I want you to be aware
of them, that there wou1d be a variance from the Town Board of Hea1th for temporary toUet facUities
on any site.
MR. MARTIN-I appreciate your drawing our attention to that Section of the 1aw. I think that's one
that wou1d have escaped us.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from lee A. York. Senior P1anner, Site P1an No. 28-92, Peter J.' Enzinna, June 10, 1992, Meeting
Date: June 16, 1992 "The proposa1 is to anow bungee jumping in an HC-1A zone. The site is 10cated
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on Route 9 and can also be accessed from the Glen lake Road. There is currently a bar/restaurant on
the front site (2.84 ac). The rear lot, which is also owned by Mr. latham is 2.73 ac and has a mobile
home on it. Both lots can be served from the access-ways provided for on either Route 9 or the Glen
lake Road. The staff has suggested that the jump site and height of the crane be identified at the
site since the property does slope down toward the south. The issues surrounding this type of use
involve safety, traffic and parking. The use itself will take up very little property. If traffic
comes in and leaves via the Glen lake Road the substantially residential neighborhood will be effected.
The Glen lake Road and Route 9 is an intersection which has been of local concern, especially during
the summer months when the tourist traffic is at its peak. There is currentlY a driveway which serves
the restaurant. The Board has got to cons i der the impact of '300 - 400 consumers per work day and
500 - 700 consumers per weekend', on the intersection. The staff reviewed the access on to Route 9
from the property. Exiting on to Route 9 can be a problem because of the site distance. DOT has been
provided a copy of the plans and requested to comment. The Planning Board has to determine the amount
of parking necessary for this use since it is not identified in the ordinance. The application states
the usage anticipated which would be 500 - 700 maximum. The Board should review the amount of time
anticipated for jumping and number of parking spaces required in other areas where the use occurs.
It appears that there would be sufficient parking. This application was reviewed with regard to Section
179-38: 1. The location of the use is on a major arterial with an existing use on the site. The
bungee jumping concept is new to the area. The use is seasonal and permanent structures are not needed.
These facts do limit the impacts. The issues revolve around appropriate locations for this use. 2.
DOT should respond to the adequacy of the access points. 3. Off street parking sufficiency should
be determined by the Board. 4. Pedestrian access is not an issue. 5. Storm water drainage is not
a concern. 6. Portable toilets are shown on the plan for the public's use. Water and sewer facilities
are not an issue. 7. landscaping is not an issue. Noise may be a concern. The Courthouse Estates
neighborhood has expressed problems with the noise from the Great Escape in the past. The Board should
review noise levels with the developer to ascertain if there will be an impact on the residential
neighborhood. 8. Fire and emergency access is not a problem. 9. Erosion control is not an issue.
The Board should ascertain that the location of the crane will be stabilized and secure."
MRS. YORK-And we have disapproval from Warren County, and the coments were, "Inappropriate use for
the area, distraction to motorists, aesthetics and also the concern for an increase in traffic hazards."
MR. MARTIN-Okay, and we have letter from the New York State Department of Transportation?
MRS. YORK-Right. It says, "Dear Ms. York: We have reviewed the Site Plan Review application for this
proposal and we have the following comments. The site plan in the appHcation indicates that access
to NYS Rte 9 will be provided on an existing gravel driveway. A significant change in land use is
being proposed that will result in an increase in traffic and the sight distance is apparentlY limited
in this location: therefore, the applicant should contact the NYSDOT Region 1 Traffic Engineering
and Safety Group (at 518 474-6377) to initiate a review of adequacy of the driveway to accommodate
the proposed increase in traffic. Sincerely, Kenneth A. Carlson, Senior Transportation Analyst"
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Do we have someone here from the applicant?
MR. ENZINNA-My name is Peter Enzinna, and I represent the applicants, Adirondack Bungee Adventures.
I would respectfully submit that I could be allowed to show a short video and be given a few seconds
to set up, and then we would like to be able to address each one of these issues. I think there's
a little bit of misinformation in some of the statements there, some of the numbers were just misquoted.
MR. MARTIN-We'll take a break while you're setting up. Okay. If anybody wants to come around and
see the video.
MR. ENZINNA-Before we get started, I just want to introduce the President of our Company, Ron Richardson.
MR. RICHARDSON-What we're going to show you, here, is some clips from some of the videos that we use
in our promotions. You're going to see some balloon jumping, and you're also going to see some crane
jumping. We wouldn't be using a balloon at this site, but this just gives you a feel for it. We would
want to use crane jumping on that site.
MR. MARTIN-We appreciate the video.
MR. RICHARDSON-I thought what we might do is if we could, as quickly as possible, go through this stuff
step by step, and I'll tell you a little bit about us. We are an established bungee jumping business.
We have operations, right now, in Colorado and Texas and Nebraska. All of our equipment is OSHA
certified and approved. Our cords are OSHA certified and they are also Milspec Cords, which are military
specs. We have never had any accident of any kind, and we do carry a million dollar insurance poHcy
which covers the jumper, the spectators, the landowners, and everything that can be covered under the
poHcy, and the operator of the crane. At this point, I'd like to correct something. It was said
that we were expecting 500 to 700 people. That must have been a typo on ours. We are expecting 50
to 70. On a good day, maybe 70 people, and the thing about that is, even if 70 people came out and
did a jump with us, they usually come in groups. Very few people come out there by themselves. They
usually come with friends who are going to jump with them. So, the situation there is we would probablY
have
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50 to 70, and so we're projecting that that's only going to add maybe 35 to 40 cars a day that are
coming in there to bungee jump.
MRS. YORK-For the Board's information, I took those figures from the information submitted by the
applicant on his application.
MR. RICHARDSON-Right. That was a typo from our office in Bouìder. She sent it, and I was gone to
our operation in Texas, did not have time to okay that, and she just typed that, which is our fauìt.
Another thing is, we'd be providing empìoyment for approximateìy 15 ìocaì young peopìe, and last night
I was sitting in an eatery and I was talking to some young kids that are home from co1ìege, a couple
of them were from Syracuse, and one was from Purdue, and they already said that they can't find any
work so far this sumer, and they were the type of young kids that were going to be seniors this year
and if they're oìder than 21, we can go ahead and hire them. They were just good young kids and I
told them we'd be interested in talking to them about a position. So, we'd be adding some empìoyment
in the area, too. Right now bungee jumping is definite1y the hot sport of the nineties. It is sweeping
the Country, and to be honest with you, if it's not in Queensbury, I guess there is on offered up at
West Mountain. I have heard that one's opening now in lake George in ìess than a month. It is going
to grow and it's going to be there and one thing that we wou1d add to you is that we just, our
professionaHsm, and aìso it'1ì bring in some taxes for the County and for the City, and under Number
Seven, we wouìd possibly try and be open until November 1st. I know that most of the summer crowd
would probabìy 1eave, the larger numbers, probabìy some time around the ìater date, when the kids are
back to school. One thing that we wouìd do is that we would pursue colleges in the area, and we wouìd
ta1k to them about coming out, and sororities and fraternities, come spend a weekend up in Queensbury
and do a jump, and we've done that in Coìorado, and in fact, three weeks ago, we had a group from a
co1ìege, right when they were getting out, come down. There was 102 students, and they came down,
and they jumped and spent the night and jumped again the next day. So, that worked weìì. I have taìked
with the, right across the street from us there's a moteì, and I've talked with them, and they found
no prob1em. I asked them, do you have any compìaints about this, and they said, we don't. I went further
down the road, and I talked with Kay's Moteì and asked, would you be interested in maybe letting the
kids, we'1ì make a package deaì and the kids can come and stay with you and she said, wen, we would
be interested in something like that because we're very s10w through October, even September, she said,
we start to sìow up. So, it would just bring in some more business for those folks. For operational
time. I put down there that we wouìd like to operate from 10 a.m. to 11 p.m., but if it suits the Board
better with this area, if dusk wouìd be fine with you, that wouìd be fine with us. We have just found
that when we've had the crane ìit up at night and then peopìe have come, and I can see a lot of peopìe
from the Town of Queensbury, and from lake George coming up and jumping in the evening, because it's
a 1ittìe different jumping at night than it is during the day, and as far as the issue with bringing
in the portable toilets, I spoke with the owner of the Trading Post, and he's here, and he said that
wou1d be fine. If we needed to use his rest-rooms, we could go ahead and use those, untiì we can get
whatever is dear to maybe bring in some portabìe units, but we're not going to have such a volume
that we're rea1ìy going to, I think that his rest-rooms can handìe it very easily, because it's just
not that huge. I heard Mr. laPoint say that he'd been up and saw that they only have 50 to 70 a day
up at the Ski Resort. and that's aì1 we're expecting. We're not expecting huge crowds, and the crowds
that we're expecting are just people who are coming by that are going into Queensbury or up to lake
George. We're not expecting to be puning them from way out in the areas, at 1east not during the
next few months. These are just peopìe that are going to be driving on this road anyway, and as far
as the dirt road that intersects there with 9, I've already spoken with the owner, and there's just
bushes aìong there, and he said we could just cut those down, if that would make visibiìity better,
or if worse comes to worse, we can just put up a Httìe barricade there so that bungee jump drivers
don't puìì in there, but yet they come on out. We think that wouìd work pretty we1ì.
MR. ENZINNA-I might add that I think some of the information, due to the scheduìing confìicts of our
own, that the DOT and the peop1e at the Warren County Board, we didn't have anyone availab1e,
knowìedgeable enough with the project to be abìe to describe exactìy what would occur. Now, I think
some of their ascertations were made based on misinformation or no information, and I think that if
lee wouìd reiterate, I guess, the part where the evaluation of, that the road wouldn't be suitab1e
for that type of traffic, we1ì, I might add that so does the Great Escape and every other amusement
park and different activity that goes on in lake George, that it's somewhat in the same type of mode.
MRS. PULVER-Yes. I think they were probably, though, still assuming it was 500 to 700 cars extra a
day.
MR. RICHARDSON-Right, and that was my fauìt. That came out of my office in Bouìder, Coìorado, and
as far as it being loud and things. it is not that ìoud. Yes, I wi1ì admit, once and a whiìe, somebody
may jump off, they do get scared and they might scream, but the majority don't. I mean. it's not just
incredibìy loud. It's on1y ìoud if you were to set up stereos and music and do alì that kind of stuff,
which I have seen at other sites. We don't do that, but it's just not that loud of an operation, and
we feeì that we're going to be far enough back off the road that even where there's a row of trees.
that we can put the crane, the base of the crane, the cab, right up next to those. Those won't even
be seen from the road. All that wiìì be seen is the boom that goes up and the basket, and we can bring
the boom down or whatever, if it needs to be done.
MR. BREWER-You're how far from the road?
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MR. RICHARDSON-We'd be over 100 feet from the road.
MR. ENZINNA-I think it's more Hke 5 to 600. That's a five and a half acre track, and we intend to
go, towards the very back, according to my site plan. I had measured it off. I be1ieve the front
section's about 250 feet, about.
MR. BREWER-I don't see 250. I'm just using this as the jump site.
MR. ENZINNA-Right. Here's the road.
MR. BREWER-Here's the road. Here's 108 here, and the road comes down, or 120 here. So, it looks 1ike
240, and over here the road comes down more. So, that doesn't look like it's 200 feet off the road.
MR. ENZINNA-Yes. It's 150 here, and then we have 110 to here.
MR. BREWER-lets talk over here.
MR. ENZINNA-Our jump site, the map's a little, basicallY, the tree line is about here.
MR. BREWER-I guess what I'm saying here is if you look at the restaurant, it shows 150 back here, and
you draw a straight line across, that would be your 150.
MR. ENZINNA-I would probablY try and move it back as far as I can, because this woods goes straight
all the way back, 585 feet.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but I guess what 1'm getting at is the road curves around, so that makes it closer
to where your jump site is.
MR. ENZINNA-Yes, the way that looks is that it's an the way down by the end, which we want to pun
it more back towards the restaurant, back here.
MRS. YORK-Mr. Enzinna, would you like to use your large site plan to illustrate?
MR. RICHARDSON-Also, while we're looking at that. the next few pages, just some of the pages, just
some of the copy there in COlorado, in the news, and then as far as the one here that someone, it's
hard to read. We're on they're front cover, and what they did is, lift has the biggest circulation,
as to crane operators.
MR. MARTIN-What type of setting are you in in Colorado?
MR. RICHARDSON-A couple of places. One place is in Breckenridge, which is a ski resort, and we are
in just open fields, there. Another place we were right on a road caned Federal, which is a main
road right through North landing, and it's a four lane road, and we are right in the Town. We are
between the Yamaha dealer and between a restaurant, and we had the crane set up. So, we were there
and we were operating from there from 10 in the morning until 10 at night. Now the new site that we
have is down by the Royal Gorge in COlorado. You can't actuany jump off the gorge, but we have a
site at the entrance where we have a crane and a boom that operate there.
MR. ENZINNA- To answer your question, Mr. Brewer, on the map that I have here, we're at 67 feet from
here to the front line of the first parking lot. Then we add on 120 feet, which would be approximatelY
187. Then the road width is 30 feet. So, we're up at about, lets just say 200, in case I mismeasured.
Then the second parking lOt, which we are not going to need, but it was my impression that one of the
major concerns was that there would not be adequate parking. So, we had made facilitations for enough
parking. This is also another nice, flat grassy area that's another 110 feet wide. So, we're at 300
feet to here, which is about level, reany where it's located here, I want to pun it back towards
Glen lake Road, and then from here, we have probablY another, the total width of this is approximately,
I beHeve, 500 and some odd feet total, which there is a stand of trees, after looking at the site
further, that we would probablY, if it would be better, or if one of the major concerns is the bushes
or the obstruction of the site, so that we would be able to pUll it back. There are some bushes here
that obstruct this entrance-way. What our intention would be to do is to cut out all the bushes, all
the obstruction in this entrance-way, which was a road that was used for, the County used this road
to back fill the whole property, if I'm not mistaken, right, Milt?
MILTON LATHAM
MR. LATHAM-The County and the Town.
MR. ENZlNNA- The County and the Town could build this road to access their dump trucks in and out of,
they fined for three years. I be1ieve that's what they were addressing at the DOT was the fact that
people would be coming out here. We could block that off, cut down the bushes, bring this further
this way. That is a pretty long stretch. I'd say it's about a half a mile or so from the Great Escape
13
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down here, up to the point, and this is a 10ng straight away. Now, if we take out an the bushes in
here, to make that a very clear view, and then not use this entrance-way, come in through this way,
then I don't see how we cou1d have a prob1em with peop1e coming out into traffic, if that wou1d be
one of the Board's recornmendations, and I think that wou1d faci1itate safety, something that's not
a traffic obstruction, because I mean I think they were envisioning five to seven hundred cars more,
which everyone, when the Great Escape gets out, that's the big pi1e up there, and then there's traffic
at that particu1ar time, which wou1d not tota11y effect us during the rest of our operating hours.
MR. BREWER-Okay. So, what you're saying is you want to move the crane over, if I'm looking at this
to the right, over here in the grassy area, over into here?
MR. ENZINNA-Move it from here, probab1y, back up into here.
MR. BREWER-Way back into here.
MR. ENZINNA-Back into here. So, it's further away from the road, probab1y around 500 feet. Because
I be1ieve the total distance is 585 feet on my site plan, and that's pretty accurate, 585, because
that is a p10t from the property 1ines. So, if we come 85 feet off the back of the trees, then we're
at 500, and we intend to pun it an the way back to the trees, so that it's 585 feet back. I mean,
where we put the crane is not a major issue, as far as ~ operation is concerned. We wou1d want to
put it in the most safe place, and do the best jOb possib1e to see that the safety, on this road, is
maintained.
MR. RICHARDSON-One of the other questions that was raised was just the, I think it was the stabi1ity
of the crane. Is that correct?
MRS. YORK-The area where the crane wou1d be p1aced is actually stab1e and can.
MR. RICHARDSON-Okay. What we were going to do is, once we got the okay, was we were just going to
come in and cut the grass down and bring in b1ade and make sure we smooth it a11 out and pack it a11
down, and that's where we're going to operate out of.
MR. ENZINNA-And being in construction, if we had to stabiJize that area, we'd 1ay down p1ywood.
Obvious1y, we don't want a crane tipping over that's going to cost us hundreds of thousands of d011ars.
MR. LAURICElLA-P1ywood's going to hold a crane up?
MR. ENZINNA-Wen, it wou1d stabilize that area so that the crane doesn't stimp, 1aying plywood down.
MR. BREWER-How about a concrete slab?
MR. LAPOINT-They'11 have outriggers. They come fitted.
MR. RICHARDSON-They're on the cranes. They come in. You put them in, and then what you have is your
outriggers come out and stabi1ize.
MR. LAPOINT-like on 12 by 12's, I don't think they use plywood. There may be a sheet of p1ywood on
top of about 10 12 by 12' s. So, if we e 1imi nate that 42 foot access to Route 9, that takes DOT out
of the 100p?
MRS. YORK-I guess it might.
MR. LAPOINT-Because, again, we cou1dn't do anything with that 42 foot until we heard from them, correct?
MRS. YORK-That's abso 1 ute 1y correct.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, that's a given. That's got to be out for anything to go tonight.
MR. RICHARDSON-That's fine. We're wiJHng to, if that's what we'd need.
MR. LAPOINT-And the toilet's got to be out tonight.
MRS. PUlVER-We11, the toi1et's out unti1 they get some sort of approval from the Department of Hea1th.
MR. RICHARDSON-We11, we have toi1ets.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. You're going to use the restaurant. We understand that.
MR. RICHARDSON-Unti1 we can get a c1earance, if not, we can continue to use the restaurant.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, and with, 1ets say, 70 cars a day, even if we trip1ed that to 200, we've got how
many parking spaces out there?
14
MR. ENZINNA-I ca1culate 72 in one area, according to the formu1a that lee gave me, and that I used.
We have 72 in the first lot.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but I don't think you can count that 10t, because that's for the restaurant.
MRS. PULVER-No. The restaurant's separate.
MR. ENZINNA- The restaurant has 24 and it's separate, because the grave 1 lot adjacent to the restaurant
and behind the restaurant is for the restaurant. Actually, according to the calculations we on1y need
the one big one in the front.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, 1ets just add these up.
MR. ENZINNA-Seventy two, one hundred and five, and seventy three.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. There's 250.
MR. ENZINNA-Two hundred and fifty parking spaces, and then there's a1so a 10t more room here.
MRS. PULVER-And you estimate the 73, that rea11y you don't need. That's just for future parking if
you shou1d need it?
MR. ENZINNA-Right. That's correct.
MRS. PULVER-And you're going to 1~ave that grass area, unless you need parking?
MR. ENZINNA-That's correct.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Do you have any p1ans to contr01 that. to keep it to, I mean, your peop1e. I mean,
out of these 15 peop1e, wou1d one guy do parking, or, I mean, what I'm thinking here, are peop1e going
to park, we11, where e1se wou1d they go?
MRS. PULVER-They're going to have an organized parking system, I'm sure, so peop1e can get in.
MR. ENZINNA-Yes.
MR. LAPOINT-So, we've got 250 parking spaces, and if we trip1e 70 a day, that's 210 peop1e, 210 a day,
if everyone comes in one car, at one time.
MRS. PULVER-They'd have an awfu1 10ng wait. The 210th person wou1d have an awfu11y 10ng wait to get
a jump.
MR. ENZINNA-A coup1e of days.
MR. LAPOINT-So, we're looking at just the 40 foot access off of G1en lake Road, which is about, maybe,
200 feet east of Route 9. That's all my questions.
MR. MARTIN-I think we've heard enough from the applicant. in terms of information we may need to know,
or anyone who's out there in the pub1ic, at this time. So, I'll open the pub1ic hearing. Is there
anyone from the pub1ic who wishes to address the Board, regarding this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
PAUL BRANDT
MR. BRANDT-MY name is Paul Brandt, and I live on West Mountain Road, and I'm connected with the bungee
business at West Mountain Ski Area. We started this business, and I have a few comments. First. I'm
not 100king for more competition. Really, I fee1 it's a nonconforming zoning area. It's zoned
commercial, and there is zone Cornmercial Recreation, and this is recreation business. I think that
a traffic prob1em wi11 be there, because many peop1e wou1d be gawkers, they want to see what's going
on, and they wi11 give you some prob1ems with traffic, and a1so parking has to be considered for
spectators, besides the peop1e that are jumping. I think a1so the crane's 10cated on a fie1d area
which was not, I don't be1ieve it's been stabi1ized, and the last thing I have to say, if you approve
their 10cation on a high traffic area, then I think other peop1e should have the same opportunity,
1ike if we wanted to move to a high traffic area, we shou1d have the same opportunity. Thank you.
MR. BREWER-That was one of my questions. Wou1d our inspector go up and inspect that stabi1ity of that
crane?
MRS. YORK-No.
MR. RICHARDSON-No, but the State, the OSHA would.
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MR. BREWER-OSHA would be there before you open?
MR. RICHARDSON-They're going to come out and check every site, once you get operational.
MR. BREWER-No, I'm saying before you get operational.
MR. RICHARDSON-Now, we have had them come out beforehand, and in fact our insurance carrier, he always
comes out and does a site inspection before he will actually allow us to start jumping. --
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Is there anyone else from the public who'd like to address the Board?
MRS. YORK-There was a gentleman who had to leave earlier, who did come up and ask the Staff to indicate
he was not in favor of it. His name is Mr. Schwartz and he lives at 5 Kendrick Road in Queensbury.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. There being no other coment, then, I' n dose the pubHc hearing. I think we can
move to the point of a SEQRA Review on this.
MR. LAPOINT-I've got just a couple of more questions. What size crane, 35, 40 ton crane?
MR. RICHARDSON-It's a 65 ton crane.
MR. LAPOINT-A 65 ton crane.
MR. MARTIN-Okay, and the height on that, again, was? You said the boom?
MR. RICHARDSON-Well, yes, we can boom it out even higher, but we're not going to. We're going to have
it boomed in, and we're going to have it at a 65 degree angle. So, the boom height will be approximately
142, 145. It is a portable crane. It's not one that just comes in. It's not a tower crane that you
set up and have to leave.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, the crane's going to weigh in excess of 65 tons. If it can pick up 65 tons.
MR. RICHARDSON-No. That's not exactly right. It's what the capabiJities, which is plenty enough for
bungee jumping. There's no problem with that.
MR. MARTIN-So, it's approximately 140 feet, and what's the size of the jumping area, from the position
of the crane to where the person lands, so to speak. Is there a genera1?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes. We're going to have a jump area, and what we'll have, we'll have that either roped
off or fenced off, whatever we deem is best for that area.
MR. MARTIN-It's 1ike a 50 foot radius?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, and that way nobody can run out into it. A 10t of places just put a rope around,
but we'd like to bring in 1ike a litt1e sma11 fence and just put it on, so litt1e kids can't run out.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. LAURICElLA-Is that acceptab1e to use the bathrooms in the restaurant? The restaurant bathrooms
were designed for that restaurant, not the additional business that wou1d be generated.
MRS. YORK-Right. I rea11y haven't run into this. This is probab1y one, if this would then be considered
an accessory use to the restaurant, because the faciJities are shared. I'm not sure. I'm not the
Zoning Administrator. I mean, that's a determination that might have to be made, in 1ight of the shared
faciJities. I don't know, and p1us the access-way WOU1d be shared also. If I cou1d just ask, win
you be using the traiJer? How wiJl you be seHing tickets? How win you be entrancing peop1e? WiJ1
you be roping off the area, or wi11 it be fenced?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, we wi11. We'11 just put out a 1ittle booth there, that they can come, and tab1es.
MRS. YORK-WiJ1 there be any signage that wiJl be shown on the highway that the Board shou1d be aware
of?
MR. RICHARDSON-No. We hadn't p1anned any. If you want to al10w us to put up a sign, we'd be g1ad
to do it.
MRS. YORK-I want the Board to be aware that I did ask the Sheriff's Department to get back to me and
1et me know the number of accident's that occurred at this intersection in the 1ast year, and they
were not able to get back to me in a time1y manner, because I know that corner is of concern, especia11Y
during the tourist season.
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MR. RICHARDSON-One thing that was said was the worry about the dockers, was that when we had a hot
air ba1100n out, yes, we wou1d have cars just pu11 over and look at the hot air ba1100n because it
just grabs you, but we were a1so in Frisco, which is right near Breckenridge, and you go over towards
Frisco, we were right a10ng 170, which is a major four Hne highway that goes, basica11y, a11 through
C010rado there and takes a11 the skiers in and out to Vei1e and back to Denver, and we were right next
to it with the crane. Never once did we have cars pu11ing off or anything. It seems, for some reason,
the peop1e just pu11 by when there's cranes there, but with a hot air ba1100n, it just grabs you.
MR. BREWER-I disagree with you. I was driving down West Mountain Road and saw somebody jump out of
the crane, and I immediate1y pu11ed over.
MR. RICHARDSON-You might be an exception, but what we have is, definite1y with the ba11oon, peop1e
do, they want to see this big beautiful thing going up and down, but with the crane, they just kind
of g1ance and head off.
MR. BREWER-Granted, if you see the crane. you'l1 probab1y just drive by, but if you see somebody jumping
from the basket or whatever, I mean, that's what caught my eye.
MR. RICHARDSON-And that's why we're going to be back so far off the road, and I don't fee1, in a sense,
it's going to catch your eye any more than, say, when you drive by the Great Escape and watch that
twister thing go around.
MRS. TARANA-I just kind of wondered, they sign off on a11 the 1iabi1ities on death and physica1 injury,
is the Town, wou1d the Town at a11 be liable for any of this?
MRS. YORK-I don't know.
MR. RICHARDSON-We have had this posed before us, and we have had, in a11 the other p1aces we've been,
the city attorneys look at it and say no. In one area, the city asked us if we wou1d put their name
on our waiver a1so, and we said, sure, we can do that. That's no prob1em. So, we cou1d put the name
of the Town, if you want. I could even check with my insurance carrier to put your name on our po1icy.
MRS. PUlVER-I think the attorney shou1d be consulted before we start requesting that the Town of
Queensbury's name be put on waivers.
MR. RICHARDSON-If I may say, 1ike, for the Great Escape, are you guys on their insurance policy?
MRS. PULVER-No.
MR. RICHARDSON-So, I don't know why we wou1d be any different, or even for the one at West Mountain,
are you on their insurance? So, I don't know that that wou1d be any different.
MR. MARTIN-Do you have anything e1se? Okay. How does everybody fee1 about trying to go through the
SEQRA? Do you have enough information? Okay. lets give it a whirl.
MR. LAPOINT-Are we in a Short Form? Okay.
RESOWTION lIMEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGJlIFICANCE IS "'DE
RESOWTION NO. 28-92, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy
Brewer:
MR. LAPOINT-IICou1d action result in any adverse effects associated with the fo11owing: Existing air
quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise 1evels, existing traffic patterns, soHd
waste production or disposa1, potentia1 for erosion, drainage or flooding prob1ems?"
MRS. TARANA-I think it could have. It says, Could action result, Cou1d it result in noise levels,
existing traffic patterns. I'm not sure that I can say no to that.
MRS. PUlVER-We11, I live right at the foot of West Mountain, and I know the bungee jumping is going
on, and there isn't.
MRS. TARANA-There's no noise?
MRS. PULVER-Nothing that.
MRS. TARANA-And what about the traffic?
MR. LAPOINT-It isn't tourist season yet, but I've been to West Mountain both weekends, and at one time,
there was absolute1y no one there except myself, and 10:30 in the morning. There are people showing
up, one or two. I think that 70 jumpers a day is probab1y pretty good. I think if we were to p1an
for 210 cars associated with 70 jumpers, that might be reasonab1e.
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MRS. PULVER-Yes, but there's onìy so many hours in the day, and so there's onìy so many jumps they
can make.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. Seventy jumps a day, best case, and if we tripìe that number of cars, that's 210
extra cars, if their soìe purpose in Hfe was to go to the bungee jumping, which, out of that 210,
ìets say half of them, otherwise, they wouldn't be in Town.
MR. LAURICELLA-The gawkers don't faìì into this?
MRS. PULVER-No, because they're just driving by anyway.
MR. LAPOINT-Weìì, okay. See, if I were to make a motion, I think I'd want to prohibit the parking,
I would set up a fee or teìì these guys that they're only to aììow people to park who are in there
to jump.
MR. BREWER-How can you do that, Ed? If I'm driving by and I see somebody jumping out of there, and
I want to stop and watch them, maybe I want to jump.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. If you're going to charge somebody to park, to gawk.
MR. BREWER-Then you're going to park on the side of the road.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
MRS. PULVER-But there's no parking on the sides of the roads in the Town of Queensbury. That becomes
an enforcement issue.
MR. LAPOINT-Weìì, there's no shouìders on Route 9 right there, is there?
MR. BREWER-Glen lake Road, I'm saying.
MR. LAPOINT-On Glen lake Road? Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I think you may have, lets say
you have 210 cars a day, that wouìd be sole source. There's no other reason for being in Town other
than bungee jumping.
MR. LAURICELLA-Except when Great Escape is in operation.
MR. LAPOINT-And then say haU those peopìe, say 100 of those people go from Great Escape to jump on
the bungee jump, right.
MR. LAURICELLA-Or just drive by.
MR. LAPOINT-Or just drive, weìì, then that's not their probìem, if they just drive by.
MR. LAURICELLA-Except that the gawkers are the drivers by.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. Again, we're ìooking at 210 cars, right?
MR. LAURICElLA-Weìl, 210, I don't know about the numbers, but I'm just taìking about gawkers that drive
by, and there's going to be a ìot there, as compared to West Mountain. I don't think that West Mountain
and this, I think are two different things.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, that looks Hke two noes on that one, right, or yeses? Shouìd I move on to
the next one?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. We can move on. I aìso think there could be some probìems with the traffic patterns
there.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
WHEREAS, there is presentìy before the Pìanning Board an appìication for: PETER J. ENZINNA, for a
bungee ju.ping business, and
WHEREAS, this Pìanning Board has determined that the proposed project and Pìanning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmentaì Quaìity Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federaì agency appears to be invoìved.
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2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unIisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation ReguIations impIementing the State Environmental QuaIity Review Act and the reguIations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the appIicant.
5. Having consi dered and thoroughly anaIyzed the reIevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the OfficiaI CompUation of Codes, RuIes and
ReguIations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board wiII have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the PIanning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and fiIe as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative decIaration that may be required by Iaw.
DuIy adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
MR. MARTIN-Wen, I just draw your attention to the bottom of the Form, "Check this box if you have
identified one or more potentiany Iarge or significant adverse impacts which may occur, then proceed
directIy to a Fun EAF and/or prepare a positive decIaration." What was our outcome on C1?
MR. LAPOINT-WeII, if we vote, right, and if you have the majority, then it's a.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. AII right.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, we have the motion, and then a second. So, we vote, and if it faUs, then they'd
have to propose an Environmental Impact Statement for this.
MR. MARTIN-Wen, the Fun EAF is the Fu11 Assessment Form. We're doing a Short. We could go on to
that tonight.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. Okay.
AYES: Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. PuIver
NOES: Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauriceIIa, Mr. Martin
MR. MARTIN-So, we're at three to three, which is a No Action, right?
MRS. YORK-I think the resolution fails, at that point, when it's No Action.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. WeII, do you have a FuII EAF, there, Ed? Maybe we can go through that and see what
happens.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-See if that'll deIineate it out further.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
RESOWTION lIMEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOWTION 10. 28-92, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy
Brewer:
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. "Impact on Transportation. WUI there be an effect to existing transportation
systems."
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Now there's usuaIIy some criteria there.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. There's, the exampIes that would apply to this, "AIteration of present patterns
of movement of people and/or goods, the proposed action wUI result in major traffic problems or other
impacts." Now, our choices, again, are sma11 to moderate impact, potential Iarge impact, or it can
be mitigated by project change.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. WeII, breaking that down further, we have an agreement by the appIicant to not access
this directly onto Route 9, correct?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, that's fine. If that'll get us cIearance, we'll do that.
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MR. MARTIN-So, that's certainly a mitigation measure, but how does everyone feel? Do you think that's
sufficient? Do you think there's a potential large impact here, or a small to moderate? Is that enough
mitigation? How do you feel about that?
MRS. YORK-If I could make a suggestion, the Board might want to consider the hours of operation that's
involved in this. What I'm saying is, the traffic could hinge on that, whether it's day time traffic
or nighttime traffic, or, we're talking about the entrance to two residential neighborhoods. So. that's
what I'm thinking, that you might want to consider that, as far as traffic goes.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I, personally, would maybe like to take you up on your offer of limited nighttime.
MR. LAPOINT-Ten a.m. to ten p.m.?
MR. MARTIN-No. The 10 a.m. to dusk.
MR. LAPOINT-Ten a.m. to dusk, which is 9:30? 9:00? My thinking there is that if you're only going
to have 70 people a day, it's good to stretch them out a Httle bit, especia11y if you're concerned
about traffic impacts, that you spread this over time a Httle bit. I think 11 o'clock is a little
bit late.
MR. MARTIN-I'm just thinking about the residential neighborhoods around the area.
MR. BREWER-How close is it to the nearest house?
MR. MARTIN-Courthouse Estates is probably the closest residential neighborhood.
MR. LAURICELLA-There are houses along Glen lake Road, too.
MRS. YORK-Right. There are houses immediately along the Glen lake Road. Mr. Winchip's house, and.
MR. MARTIN-Right, right at that intersection of Courthouse Estates.
MRS. YORK-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-So, you're probably looking at how much of a difference, probably 500 to 600 feet?
MRS. YORK-Right.
MR. RICHARDSON-Approximately a quarter of a mile. Ten would be fine, or dusk, or whatever would be
good for you. We have found, I've only been in here for approximately a week this time, but at night
there's not much traffic on the road.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but it's not tourist season, yet, either.
MR. RICHARDSON-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-That changes substantially on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer.
MR. RICHARDSON-I know it's real busy during the day, but at night there's hardly anybody.
MR. BREWER-We11, when school gets out and people start vacationing, then you're going to see a lot
bigger impact.
MRS. PULVER-After six o'clock, though, when the Great Escape gets out, there's not that much traffic
on that road at all, after six.
MR. BREWER-During the day, though, there's a significant amount, more.
MR. LAPOINT-Ten p.m. just sounds not quite as late. I mean, if you're finishing up at 10, we don't
finish meetings until 10.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but we're not right next door to somebody's house, either.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
MRS. PULVER-Well, how late does the one at West Mountain stay open?
MR. LAPOINT-I think they're closing at dusk right now. I mean, there's just not that business there.
MRS. PULVER-What's their potential? I live right there. probably closer than 500 feet.
MR. BREWER-What time's West Mountain going to be open until, during the summer?
20
MR. BRANDT-About 10 o'cìock at night.
MR. MARTIN-Well, you've also got a lighting issue there that's going to require, I imagine, a
considerable amount of ìighting to light the area.
MR. RICHARDSON-On our other sites we bring in portabìe ìights.
MR. LAPOINT-Spots that shine on, I mean, they're not iìluminating the whoìe area, are you?
MR. RICHARDSON-No, no. There's just one up on the basket and one down on the jump site, and then that
way the jumper can see. The only reason we want to do it again at night is because a ìot of people
come back and do a second jump because it's a night jump, and a ìot of peopìe just find that somewhat
more thriììing to do it then, pìus I had noticed that, at ìeast at this time, when I've driven through
the Town ìate at night, there's reaììy nothing going on except for right across from the Great Escape.
There's just ìines for ice cream, and that's aH I've noticed. So, I thought this would give us
something also to offer.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, this is aìì key on how it reìates to traffic anyway.
MR. MARTIN-Weìl, I guess there's a coupìe of perspectives. You take your view that you spread it out
over a ìonger time, or you take the view that you're alìowing the torture for the neighborhood residents
to continue into the night.
MR. RICHARDSON-If we ended right at 10, and we could be sure to end it right at 10, it probabìy wouìdn't
keep anybody awake.
BETTY MONAHAN
MRS. MONAHAN-Jim, I just wanted to point out that the Town, when they ìit the tennis courts at the
schooì in deference to the neighbors, they've got a timer on those, so those ìights go off, and I can't
teìì you what time, to be honest with you, at a certain time of night, so they won't be offensive to
the neighbors.
MR. MARTIN-I think Hghting of this nature, you're taìking a fairìy significant ìight, even if it is
just two of them.
MRS. PUlVER-Weìl, how about if they aimed them towards the Great Escape? I mean, if they're spotìights
on the ground, you know the type that they use?
MR. MARTIN-Right. WeH, that's something that's certainly going to be put in the motion. We've done
it in the past.
MR. LAURICELLA-Who's going to poìice something ìike that?
MRS. PUlVER-Weìì, if it's in the motion, and the resolution, the Town is supposed to.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, who's going to enforce it if it closes at six?
MR. MARTIN-The other thing I want to bring into pìay, here, whiìe we're on this traffic business, I
don't think it's accurate by any means to just simply take the square footage of the area shown here
and divide in the number of square footage that's required per space. TypicaHy, you need 400 square
feet on the average, per space, to deal with access lanes, turning radius and alì that.
MR. LAPOINT-So, there's substantialìy less than 250 spaces there?
MR. MARTIN-Right. It cuts it in half, approximateìy.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, I can't imagine for one guy jumping, say, every haìf hour, every twenty minutes,
one guy jumping every haìf hour?
MR. RICHARDSON-I think the most we ever had at one time was 30 in a parking ìot, and that was when
we were using a baHoon, and a baììoon you have to start at 6:30 in the morning when the winds are
good, so everybody's told, be out there right at dawn so that we can get up before the winds are in
effect.
MR. LAPOINT-Weìl, I mean, how many peopìe jump an hour, if you were stacked right up?
MR. RICHARDSON-I would say, maybe, 10.
MR. LAPOINT-You can do 10 an hour?
MR. LAURICELLA-What's your potentiaì?
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MR. RICHARDSON-I would say the max would be 15.
MR. LAPOINT-Fifteen an hour?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Just by the limitation of the speed of your equipment and all that?
MR. RICHARDSON-Right, yes, and the safety checks and everything. Sure.
MR. LAPOINT-That seems like a lot. That's one every four minutes, right?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, and that would rea11y be moving out. We usua11y don't do that, even when we're
going our fastest.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, you do one every six minutes. That would be 10, and you'd have 250 cars there then.
MR. MARTIN-We11, I'd persona11y like to see, definitely the access-way off of Route 9 taken away, and
I'd 1ike to see no nighttime operation. I just think that's a burden on, it's putting stress on that
whole situation there, and it's going to be offensive to the neighbors to have that operating at night.
MR. RICHARDSON-Could we just do the same as West Mountain has, until 10? Would that be feasible?
MR. MARTIN-That, to me, is nighttime. I'm saying, I'd 1ike to see this mirror the operation, if we
do a110w it, Hke the operation hours of the Great Escape, even, because I 1ived on Glen lake Road
for a while, on the corner of Ash Road and Glen lake Road, and that's very treacherous getting in and
out of there because there's no Hght. It's difficult, and it's especially difficu1t in the summer
when the Great Escape is open.
MR. RICHARDSON-Could we at least, then, go to dusk, when people can still see?
MR. MARTIN-Well, I'm just giving you my personal views, here.
MR. LAPOINT-How about, we're feeHng out for numbers, here, as it relates to traffic, because we're
in the middle of SEQRA, okay.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I'm trying to mitigate, here.
MR. LAPOINT-Eight o'clock?
MR. MARTIN-I'd have a better time with that.
MRS. PUlVER-I feel the traffic past six o'clock is not bad at a11 on that road. So, to go to 10 is
not a hardship for the road. From 6 to 10 is not a hardship.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. I understand where Jim's coming from, but I guess that's, if transportation is
that issue with people driving by at night, say at 10 o'clock.
MR. MARTIN-We11, I think, again, spotlights of that intensity that's going to be required to Hght
this area are going to be a distraction to the drivers. I mean, even if they are restricted to that
area, or angled in such a way as to keep the light off the road, it's still going be a.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. If we went to 8 p.m., I mean, they could always have to come back, if they wanted
to extend it, if things were wi1dly successful and there were four of these things operating to peak
capacity, which I doubt.
MR. MARTIN-Wen, I'm just looking for mitigation measures, here, or does anybody have any other
suggestions, or is that something that you're comfortable with?
MR. LAURICElLA-I would 1ike to see it screened from the road, but I don't know how you could do that.
MRS. PULVER-Does that naturally, I mean, it slopes down in there.
MR. ENZINNA-It does. There's a whole row of trees just along there. You can't even see where the
jump site will be.
MRS. PUlVER-I mean, the terrain itself naturally goes down, and I can't picture.
MR. LAURICELLA-You won't be over the top of the trees with the crane, is that what you're saying?
MRS. PULVER-The ~ will. yes, but.
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MR. ENZINNA-The actual top of the boom wou1d be, yes, correct.
MR. BREWER-That's what peop1e are 100king at when people are jumping.
MR. ENZINNA-Sure, but not the wh01e thing, and when you're driving a10ng, part of that road is, you
have the trees right there. You can't, the trees go up quite high. You wou1d not be able to see over
them until you get past it. Once they get past it, then if they turned around, for some unbe1ievab1e
reason, they might see that there's a crane back. I'm not sure.
MR. LAURICELLA-So, you're saying you won't be over the top of the trees?
MR. RICHARDSON-We would actual1y be higher than the trees that are right next to the road, but the
thing about it is, if the tree's right here, I can't actually see something.
MR. LAURICELLA-If I was driving on the road, cou1d I see your crane? That's what I'm asking.
MR. RICHARDSON-Not coming up 9, you wou1d not be able to see the crane, because of the trees that are
right next to the road. It wou1d block it.
MR. ENZINNA-I believe it's a perspective vantage point, I'm here, the trees are here. If you're down
here on the road, you don't see up.
MR. RICHARDSON-And the Hghts aren't actual1y spotHghts. They're little portab1e lights that you
have, so that they're more 1ike a, I don't want to use the word f100dHght, but that's probab1y about
the strength. They're not spot1ights 1ike you see at car dealerships or something 1ike that.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, we're 100king at 1imitation of operating hours, no access onto Route 9. I'd
a1so 1ike to see this put back as far into the property as we cou1d, if it was approved. I think they've
already indicated that they wou1d try to do that.
MR. BREWER-I'd sti11 1ike to put it in there, though.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, certainly.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, on this one, it's going to be, can be mitigated by project change.
MR. MARTIN-Or sma11 to moderate, even.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. I'd go for sma11 to moderate.
MR. MARTIN-How does everybody feel about that?
MRS. TARANA-I'11 te11 you the truth, when I looked at that, I don't reca11 any big trees that are going
to be shie1ding this thing.
MR. MARTIN-We11, we're looking at traffic right now.
MRS. TARANA-Right. We11, what I'm thinking of is this curb right here, because I was aware of the
curb as I came around, and I could look right down into that wh01e property. I don't even reca11 the
trees.
MR. RICHARDSON-As you come up 9, there are trees right there. As you're coming up, say, from the Great
Escape, there's just rows. There's a whole buffer zone, right there, of trees. It comes right up
where that 1itt1e access road begins.
MRS. TARANA-I don't recal1 the trees being around that particu1ar property. This is where they've
been cutting out the grave1 and everything, right?
MR. MARTIN-If you recal1 that traiJer that's there, it's going to be sitting in behind there, so to
speak, in that general area.
MRS. TARANA-Right, but I don't reca11 trees shie1ding this whole area. They might be there.
MR. ENZINNA-It might be because if you're on the property looking back, and not on the road coming
up, it depends on your perspective, of where you were 100king from. If you were on the parking lot
looking back, no, but if you're on the road 100king towards the perspective site, then, yes, it's
shie1ded.
MR. LAURICELLA-Are there trees along the edge of the road? That's the question.
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, there are trees a10ng the road coming up 9.
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MR. LAPOINT-They're right up to the gravel road, here. When you near the gravel road, they disappear.
This is here. They're not rea11y trees, they're thick brush. They're very thick brush, ìike this.
You hit the road, which is natura11y opened, and then you're pretty much c1ear shot, looking down into
there as you go a10ng.
MRS. TARANA-So, when you're direct1y opposite this, there are no trees?
MR. LAPOINT-When you're stopping in traffic.
MR. MARTIN-When you're in that, do you see where it says 165 foot of frontage there? Right in that
area it's open, okay. So, what I'm 100king for, here, is an agreement as to a traffic impact, here.
Are we 100king at something that's sma11 to moderate, or it's been mitigated, or potentia11y 1arge?
With these mitigation measures, I wou1d go for sma11 to moderate.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. I agree with that, because I would have said there was no traffic impact to begin
with.
MR. MARTIN-We11, I was just thinking about that intersection there on Glen lake Road.
WHEREAS, there is present1y before the P1anning Board an appHcation for: PEtER J. ENZINNA, far a
bungee jUllping business, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and P1anning Board action is
subject to review under the State Environmental Qua1ity Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federa1 agency appears to be inv01ved.
2. The f0110wing agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unHsted in the Department of Environmenta1
Conservation Regu1ations imp1ementing the State Environmenta1 Qua1ity Review Act and the regu1ations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmenta1 Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thorough1y analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official CompUation of Codes, Ru1es and
Regu1ations for the State of New York. this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmenta1 effect and the Chairman of the P1anning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative dec1aration that may be required by 1aw.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the f0110wing vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. MARTIN-Okay. I think that was worthwhUe. A11 right. Now, we're at the point of disposition.
Is there anything e1se you'd like to discuss?
MR. LAPOINT-What did we agree for a time? Was it eight o'c10ck, or was it earlier than that?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I think eight wou1d be.
MR. LAPOINT-I think eight was the number we came up with?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's what we ta1kedabout during the traffic part of the SEQRA.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, and the things I have on my list, okay, wi11 operate from 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. They'11
have to use the Trading Post rest-rooms, with the contingency that they run the portable bathroom concept
past the Town Board as soon as possible. They have to come before you to get approval, to use portab1e
bathrooms?
MRS. MONAHAN-It has to have a Sanitary Variance. They are illega1 in this Town.
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MR. LAPOINT-Okay, then, I'm teHing them they have to go for that variance as soon as possibìe. In
my mind is I don't want them using the restaurant's toiìets indefiniteìy. To me, if it's acceptabìe
to put in the toiìets, to the Town Board, then that's the way they should go. If it's unacceptabìe
to the Town Board to put them in, I don't know where that ìeaves us. I mean, does it make sense to
use this restaurant's bathrooms?
MR. LAURICELLA-No.
MR. LAPOINT-Does it make sense to put in portable toiìets?
MR. BREWER-Are they acceptabìe, Betty?
MRS. MONAHAN-No.
MR. LAPOINT-1'm just saying, does it make sense to put in portabìe toiìets? The answer is yes. Now,
whether they agree with that, we can't controì that.
MR. BREWER-If they're not aììowed, then how can they put them in?
MR. LAPOINT-If they can put them in by variance, correct?
MR. RICHARDSON-We'lì go file for a variance, then.
MR. LAPOINT-Correct.
MRS. MONAHAN-I can onìy teH you the reasoning when that ìaw was put into effect. We did not want
to see these popping up alì over Town and that's why we did the ìaw in the first pìace, that the only
time they're ever justified is if you have an event of a few short days, like the LARAC festivaL ìets
say, or the BaHoon Festival, and the whole purpose, now this is a different Town Board. I can onìy
ten you the reasoning then. The Town Board, at that time, did not want to see portabìe bathrooms
coming aH over this Town as they had been in other areas, and we just did not feeì that this added
to the aesthetics of the Town, the sanitary facilities in the Town, or anything eìse. If you're going
to have an operation, you shouìd have permanent bathrooms.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Then you guys can make that decision when they come in front of you for the variance,
and either shut this whoJe thing down or ìet them continue. Correct? I mean, that's what, more or
Jess, you're eìected for, right?
MRS. MONAHAN-I don't know if we couìd shut them down. If we turn down the variance, I think you're
opening up a can of worms, here.
MR. RICHARDSON-If I couìd say one thing, I would think, at the most, we might have 10, 15 people there
at one time, and I don't know how many people need to go to the bathroom. One of our operations in
Coìorado, we actuaììy pulìed the portabìe toilets out of there because no one was using them.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, then, I guess my question to everybody else, is the problem that they use the
rest-rooms in the restaurant?
MR. BREWER-Wait a minute, Ed, because the next appHcation's for the same thing, and he's on a site
where he's going to have to put these portable bathrooms, too. So, we have to think about the whoìe
situation.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Good point.
MRS. PUlVER-WeH, I think if the restaurant, if they can use the restaurant and go get a variance.
We anow portabìe portapotties on construction sites which ìast much more than five days or five weeks
sometimes. It couìd be a year depending on whether it's a commercial job or a residentiaì job.
MR. LAURICELLA-It's permitted, though, by the Ordinance.
MRS. PULVER-Right. It is permitted, and this is a business that would be only four or five months
a year, whatever it is. So, they wouìdn't be there any ìonger than they would be on a construction
site. So, possibìy, whoever it going to consider the variance wouìd consider it for this particuìar
business because they wouìd be taken away.
MR. RICHARDSON-And if sight's a problem, we could put them behind the trees, but there's enough trees
out there we could put them so that you can't see them from the road.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Just to back up, I guess if we have no probìem with them using the, but we do have
to resoìve this on the next site plan.
MRS. PULVER-Does the next pìan, do they have a bathroom that they can use in pìace of the portapotties?
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MR. LAPOINT-I think it's just a lot. There's no facilities at the other site. Can we tell them, they
don't provide anything, and if people make their way into the restaurant, and the restaurant anows
that, I mean, if we don't say anything about it. Is that an option?
MRS. PULVER-Yes. Do you have to provide bathroom facilities?
MR. LAURICElLA-I would think we'd want to.
MR. RICHARDSON-Most people are in and out of there in five minutes. It's not that big of a dea1.
It takes a few minutes to jump, and then they usually leave.
MILT LATHAM
MR. LATHAM-Mi1t latham. I own the property. Ten years ago, when they redid Route 9, CoHo Russo
Construction Company used that whole, the same area, and an the time they were rebui1ding Route 9,
they had two sanitary houses there.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, I guess to back up, do we even need to put anything in it at all? Why don't we just
leave it all right out to begin with, not even address it.
MRS. MONAHAN-I wish, some place in there because, you know, if these guys are not aware of this
provision, and I'm just afraid of enforcement issue, you do state, or we'd appreciate it, that portable
bathrooms are not allowed in that area.
MR. MARTIN-Right. We have to say that.
agree with that.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. We' n do that, then. Okay. The other issue is no stereo or loudspeaker playing
music at any time associated with the jump, that we cut off the 42 foot access to Route 9 permanentlY,
or during the season. I was thinking about the stabUization of the soi1 beneath the crane, and I
think if you've got something puHing 65 tons on a boom, you've got to have something, at minimum,
to counteract that. So that the crane's got to weigh 65 tons. Should we have Rist-Frost take a look
at the soil stabilization there? I mean, if you're too close the bank.
MRS. YORK-I think it might be a good idea.
MR. LAPOINT-Wen, what I'm thinking is have the app1icant get that done by a PE and submit it to
Rist-Frost for their review, and if it's a simple thing.
MRS. YORK-PossiblY just a PE stamp should be sufficient.
MR. RICHARDSON-But that's why they have on the crane stabilizers, because they bring them into
construction sites, I mean, torn up and just unbeHevable, and that's why they have stabi1izers that
come out and stabilize the area.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, that's the outrigger for the crane, correct?
MR. RICHARDSON-Exactly. Even if you're on unstable ground, they can get it stable.
MR. LAPOINT-Well, if you're too close to a bank, and there's bank on the lower side of this.
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes. Where we're at, we won't be near that.
MR. LAPOINT-Right, and that's, again, if you're within, say, 20 feet it's a problem. though.
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes. We won't even be near that.
MR. BREWER-They're going to be way over back behind the restaurant, if you draw a straight Hne from
the restaurant back to the back of the page.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
MR. BREWER-That would be a stipulation JL would want, not way out here where they've got it.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, but still, if you're near any relief.
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, but that would be right over, almost on the boundary line. We don't want to be
right on the boundary line.
MR. MARTIN-Well, there is some setbacks, too, you'd have to meet.
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MR. LAPOINT-But there's some cut off, within 10 feet's going to be no good. Within 20 feet's going
to be no good. For that soil that's there, there's going to be some number that you can't be within,
based on slope stability, and I'm just trying to address what we've ta1ked about here today, in terms
of safety. You don't want them too c10se the edge and the whole thing s1ide.
MR. RICHARDSON-And we won't be. That's a11 the way down at the very end of it.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, what are we going to do? Are we going to just go with their say so that it's
set up proper1y?
MR. BREWER-The location should be, I think, in there, Ed, if this gets approved.
MR. MARTIN-This is adjoining, is that a residential zone, lee?
MRS. YORK-Yes, it is.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, we need a 50 foot buffer there to be sure.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, 50 foot buffer, minimum.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. LAPOINT-That should take care of it.
MR. MARTIN-Along the, what wou1d that be, the eastern property line? Yes.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay, and a11 signage to conform with 10ca1 code, if any?
MR. MARTIN-No. There are no signs.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Do you want to put that in there, that there wi11 be no signs?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, no signs.
MR. LAPOINT-No signs.
MRS. PULVER-Well, are we saying they can't ever have a sign, or if they want a sign/
MR. MARTIN-It's not part of this site p1an. If they want sign, then they've got to come in for their
permit.
MRS. PULVER-That's what I'm saying. Are you saying they can't have a sign, or if they come in and
get a permit, they can have a sign?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes.
MR. RICHARDSON-We can't have signs on the road or anything 1ike that. Okay.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, just real quick, it was 10 to 8. We'll say no porta johns, no stereo
10udspeakers, no music, no access off Route 9, within the 50 foot buffer zone.
MR. MARTIN-And that current access-way to be barricaded.
MR. LAPOINT-Temporarily barricaded, whatever. No portable johns, and signage on1y as a110wed by permit
and code, none associated with the site plan.
MR. LAURICELLA-What did we say about the engineer?
MR. LAPOINT-I guess what we're going to do is assume that everything's stab1e, and I don't agree with
that.
MR. LAURICElLA-We11, why don't we say that the engineer shou1d.
MR. LAPOINT-WeI1, yes, being an engineer myse1f, that you've always got some kind of relief on a site,
un1ess you're exact1y perfect1y flat for hundreds of feet, which I don't think you are here.
MR. RICHARDSON-That, actual1y, the area has been flattened out. There's just grass right there. They
came in and they f1attened it a11 out.
MR. LAPOINT-And there's no drop off at the property boundary?
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MR. RICHARDSON-Way down here at the very end, not anywhere near where we're going to be.
MR. LAPOINT-An right. So, if they're within 50 feet of the buffer, or outside of 50 feet, we shou1d
be okay.
MR. LATHAM-Cou1d I say something in that regard?
MR. LAPOINT-Sure.
MR. LATHAM-When Pa10 Russo was working on Route 9, they had land movers, I mean, tons and tons of that
stuff. There was a pile of rock and stone bigger than this room right here. So, I mean, it's compacted
down as much as any piece of property I've ever seen.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MR. LAURICELLA-Wasn't there a 10t of trees thrown on that area, though?
MR. LATHAM-There used to be, years ago. That was al1 locked off as soon as we found out it was going
to be fi11ed. Fran Wa1ters, I wish she was here today. She's the one that started that whole 1andfill
operation, and two sUlllllers they had a youngster from scho01 stand guard there to see just what went
in there, so it wasn't a trash fil1. I'm not saying there's no trees that. but there's a11 c1ean stuff.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay.
MR. LAURICElLA-I don't know where this site is 1ocated. I mean, now you've ta1ked about moving it.
Where do we end up, here?
MR. BREWER-I think what he discussed, and I would say right about here is what he told me.
MR. LAPOINT-Put an X on that and I'll put some dimensions on that, Peter. Okay. We'n can it 60
feet in off of G1en lake Road, and 80 feet west of the property line. No?
MR. ENZINNA-I think it wou1d be more than 60 feet. I think it would be too close to G1en lake Road.
I think we wou1d want to move it down about 120 plus maybe another 20.
MR. LAPOINT-Put your X where you want it, and we'11 figure it out.
MR. ENZINNA-Right about where that says tota1.
MR. LAPOINT-Right about where that says tota1?
MR. ENZINNA-Yes.
MR. BREWER-See, that's not agreeable to me, because you told me, a ha1f an hour ago, you were going
to put it over here 400 feet. You t01d me right here. Now, you're te11ing me here?
MR. RICHARDSON-Yes, but you had asked us to make sure that it was blocked, somewhat, by the trees.
So, we wanted to move it down for you guys.
MR. BREWER-No. The distance from the road is what I was questioning about, right here.
MR. RICHARDSON-Okay. I see.
MR. BREWER-You see, the further over here you bring it, the closer it is to the road.
MR. RICHARDSON-Right. We11, what we can do is we can compromise right in this area, then, so that
we're far enough from an boundaries and away from anybody, and not dose enough to any drainage or
anything.
MR. BREWER-So, you're saying right there?
MR. RICHARDSON-Right in there.
MR. BREWER-So, you're ta1king?
MR. RICHARDSON-One hundred and twenty, one hundred and fifty feet.
MR. BREWER-One hundred and fifty feet, and that'l1 sti11 give you the five hundred feet. It won't
give you 500 feet there. It'11 give you about 350, 375.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. That's right about where the portab1e toi1ets are shown now, or no?
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MR. BREWER-Exactìy in ìine with them, Ed.
MR. ENZINNA-Yes, right. Maybe back a ìittle farther.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. lets try this, then. One hundred and eighty feet south of Glen lake Road, okay,
and 150 feet west of the property ìine, or thereabouts. That seems reasonabìe.
MR. ENZINNA-Right.
MR. LAPOINT-Everybody see that? Those are approximate.
MRS. TARANA-When I ìooked at this site, I was ìooking at it from a different perspective, and I reaììy
don't know if I'm ready to vote on this, because I've lost the perspective, now, as to where it was
supposed to be, because I thought it was going to be over here. So, I looked at it from an those
different angìes.
MR. MARTIN-Weìì, lets try and frame something up here.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 28-92 PETER J. ENZINNA, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
With the fonowing stipuìations: That the hours of operation be limited to 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. That
no portabìe rest-rooms be provided at the faciìity without a variance from the Town Sanitary Code.
That there be no ìoudspeakers or music played during the hours of operation or otherwise. That the
42 foot curb cut access off Route 9 be barricaded during the operationaì season, and no access aììowed
to the site via that 42 foot curb cut on Route 9. That there be no signage anowed, associated with
this site pìan approval, but it is aììowed per permit and application by the appìicant at a further
date, and that the site of the crane and landing area be approximateìy 180 feet south of Gìen lake
Road, and 150 feet west of the property ìine, or thereabouts, as determined acceptable by the appìicant.
Duìy adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the foììowing vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. laPoint, Mrs. Puìver
NOES: Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauriceììa, Mr. Martin
MR. MARTIN-As you're wen aware, this required an override of five votes for the County voting no.
So, you're nowhere near that, and we have, what, three to three here? So, no action is taken.
MRS. TARANA-Which means what?
MR. BREWER-Which means he's denied.
MR. MARTIN-Weìl, with there not being the votes for the County override, the effect is the application's
disapproved. Wouìd that be your assessment, lee?
MRS. YORK-Yes. That's correct.
MR. ENZINNA-We weren't abìe to present our case, reany, to the County, on a factuaì basis, what the
actuaì facts were, because of confHcting scheduìes. What wouìd be a recourse to reevaìuate to the
County, wait until the next month?
MRS. YORK-You wouìd have no option except to wait untiì next month, and then at that point, you could
give me a ìetter requesting that you be re-reviewed. 1'm not saying that they win consider it. They
may feel that they have aìready seen this site pìan once and may not want to consider that. You can
give me a ìetter requesting to be re-reviewed, and explaining your reasoning, and I can forward that
to them.
MR. ENZINNA-Wouìd that have been a five out of a seven vote, versus a five out of six?
MR. MARTIN-Weìì, you need a majority pìus one, and a seven member Board, you need five, and right now
we're at a ìoss, because we had a member who resigned. So, we're waiting to fin that vacancy. So,
we're at six, but you stiìì need five, you need five out of that six, a majority pìus one, four pìus
one. (9:36 p.m.)
SITE PLAN NO. 34-92 TYPE: UNLISTED TOTAL RECOIL BUNGEE, INC. OߌR: GUIDO PASSARELLI RooTE 9
- SITE OF FORMER MT. ROYAL MOTEL. HC-lA ZONE. SITE PLAN FORBUNGEE JUMPING AND FENCE. (WARREN coom
PLANNING) TAX MP NO. 70-1-9 lOT SIZE: +5.25 ACRES SECTION: 179-23. 179-74
SCOTT THOMAS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT (9:36 p.m.)
29
.~'
STAFF INPUT
Notes from lee A. York, Senior Planner, Site PIan No. 34-92, Total Recoil Bungee, Inc., June 15, 1992,
Meeting Date: June 16, 1992 "The application is for Bungee Jumping on a site dong Route 9. There
is a Ietter attached regarding the stabiJity of the site which the Board should discuss with the
appJicant. DOT has also submitted a Ietter. The issues involved in this Iand use are traffic and
health and safety. The use is temporary and seasonal which Jimits the impacts. Since this is a new
use not covered in the parking schedule the Board has to decide how much parking is necessary. This
application was reviewed with regard to the criteria for site pIan review: 1. The jump site is +75
feet from Route 9, a major arteria1. The site also contains a number of power Jines which the Board
should assure wnl not be a problem for the use. 2. Access is provided for from Route 9. DOT has
requested that the appJicant contact the resident engineer because the road cut permit has to be
evaluated based on the changedland use. 3. Off street parking appears to sufficient. The Board
should discuss the intensity of the usage and maximum number of patrons and observers which have to
be accommodated. 4. Pedestrian access does not appear to be an issue. 5. Storm water drainage will
not be modified. 6. Temporary toiJet facnities wUI be provided. Water and sewer are not an issue.
7. landscaping is not being changed. 8. Fire and emergency access is provided via Route 9. 9.
Erosion control is not an issue."
MRS. YORK-The determination from Warren County was a disapproval, based on the potential for negative
traffic impacts, and we have a Ietter here from Kenneth Carlson, Senior Transportation Analyst from
DOT, "Dear Ms. York: We have reviewed the Site PIan Review appJication for this proposal and we have
the fo11owing comment. The site pIan in the application indicates that access to NYS Rte 9 wiJl be
provided on an existing driveway. Since this is a significant change of Iand use that wnl resu1t
in an increase in traffic, the appJicant should contact Herbert F. Steffins, the NYSDOT Warren County
Engineer (at 518 623-3511) to initiate a review of adequacy of that driveway to accommodate the proposed
increase in traffic. Sincerely, Kenneth A. Carlson, Senior Transportation Analyst" And we have a
Ietter from Brian Granger, June 9, 1992, "GenUemen: Pursuant to our discussion regarding the
feasibiJity of placing a crane on the premises of the Mount Royal Motel for the purposes of bungee
jumping I would Iike to reiterate my feeling in writing. My opinion is that the placement of the support
crane as proposed on the site where a portion of the Motel was demoJished is unsafe as the ground is
unstable. uncompacted fresh fin. Further, even compaction of this fresh fi11 would sti11 Ieave the
proposed site in my opinion unstable and unsafe. It would appear to me that the crane could easny
be moved to another site on the premises, namely away from any portion of the premises where demolition
was undertaken. Sincerely, Brian E. Granger"
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Just to inform the Board, I was contacted by Mr. Scott Thomas this week, and he had
a concern that, being so c10sely fo11owed by another appJicant on the agenda, and also the same thing
happened up at the County, that he get a skewed review, here, and I assured him that we would Iook
at each app1ication on its own merit, and that that would have no impact on our review of this
application.
MR. THOMAS-Hi. My name is Scott Thomas. I'm Vice President of Total RecoU Bungee, Inc., Saranac
lake.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Do you want to take us through your proposal.
MR. THOMAS-As far as the compacting of the soil is concerned, Brian Granger is here tonight, and we've
talked about this.
MR. MARTIN-I assume his involvement was that you actually did the buUding of the site. Is that how
you became aware of the?
BRIAN GRANGER
MR. GRANGER-The demolition in February.
MR. MARTIN-Right. Okay.
MR. THOMAS-Right in this corner there was a basement for the restaurant, and they threw a Iot of debris
in there, and what we propose to do is just take this thing and f1ip it and put the crane over here
and the parking over there. So, it will be an exact mirror of what you have.
MR. MARTIN-Okay, and your proposal is for the same type set up we just heard, a crane jumping, it's
not a balloon or anything of that nature?
MR. THOMAS-That's correct.
MR. MARTIN-And we have existing ingress and egress out of this site through.
MR. THOMAS-If you'n notice on the site pIan, there's two ingresses and egresses on the property, one
to the north and one to the south, and these things are approximatelY 30 foot wide a piece, I would
guess.
30
--
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Does anybody have any questions?
MR. LAURICELLA-There's going to be no screening between the edge of the road and that?
MR. THOMAS-No, sir.
MR. LAURICELLA-Okay.
MR. BREWER-You're going to grade that area up?
MR. THOMAS-We're going to grade. We're going to back fi11. We're going to do everything, whatever
it takes.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MRS. PUlVER-I don't see on here where you had your porta potties listed.
MR. THOMAS-If you'll look at the back of the plan, right behind the spectator area.
MRS. PUlVER-I see, Outdoor Facilities.
MR. THOMAS-It's come to my attention that there is an existing septic system there that we can hook
into. We have proposed a 10 by 20 bui1ding, that'11, of course, conform to your local codes, here,
and we can put at least one in there.
MRS. PULVER-Well, doesn't he have to have site plan to put that building up?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, it's part of this site plan.
MRS. PULVER-He's going to do the whole thing all at once?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MRS. PUlVER-I thought he was going to do it in stages.
(END OF FIRST DISK)
31
'-
MR. MARTIN-No. You're putting the building up if you get approval, right?
MR. THOMAS-That's correct.
MR. BREWER-How far off the road is your crane going to be?
MR. THOMAS-It looks like it's about 140 to 150 feet back, setback off the road, plus it's angled.
The crane will be set on an angle. We don't want this thing sticking out like a sore thumb.
MR. BREWER-It's going to, though.
MR. MARTIN-You have a sign shown, I see.
MR. THOMAS-That's correct. If you folks would like to see a sketch of the sign, this is what our sign
looks like.
MRS. TARANA-Is it still going to be a shopping center, do you know?
MR. THOMAS-Down the road that's possible.
MRS. TARANA-Well, I thought that was already open?
MR. LAURICELLA-That's approved?
MRS. PULVER-They've all had final approval on the Mount Royal, haven't they?
MR. MARTIN-Right. I believe we have. We have final approval, right, lee, on the shopping center for
there?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes.
MRS. YORK-There's a final approval on that. The demoHtion has taken place. I understand that there
will be a shopping center there at some point in time.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-When they got the approval for the shopping center, it was encompassing this whole property.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MRS. PULVER-So, wouldn't this be, now, an accessory use to?
MR. MARTIN-Well, ~ view of this is this is temporary and seasonal.
MRS. PULVER-Well, we're talking septic tank and building.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, that's true.
MRS. PULVER-It's becoming pretty permanent.
MR. MARTIN-Of course the building, he said, will be a mirror image. It will be over here, now.
MRS. PULVER-Right. Well, it's still on the same piece of property.
MR. MARTIN-As I recall, the shopping center was an l-shaped configuration, like this.
MR. LAURICELLA-But you approved that with the consideration of the whole piece of property, right?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MRS. PULVER-This is the old, I mean, this was the way the.
MR. MARTIN-It's still there, that portion is still there.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, but I would like to see the site plan as the new site that was approved with this
on it.
MR. THOMAS-That.i! the new site plan.
MR. LAURICELLA-Not with the shopping center.
MR. BREWER-That's your site plan. This piece of property was approved for another.
32
MR. THOMAS-Yes. I understand what you folks are saying. This is just a vacant 10t there. The Mote1
stn1 exists.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, but there's a site p1an that's been approved that shows none of that and a new shopping
center of 64,000 square feet or something 1ike that being bunt on that site, and that was a11 shown
for another purpose, and I don't know what happened with that, where that stands.
MRS. PULVER-Has that been withdrawn? Are they not doing that?
MR. MARTIN-There's signs up there now. There's rea1 estate signs up there.
MRS. YORK-My understanding is those approva1s are sti11 good.
SUSAN BALFOUR
MRS. BALFOUR-Susan Balfour, and the shopping center isn't going anywhere this season. This is just
a seasonal agreement between Mr. Passare11i and Mr. Thomas right now.
MRS. PULVER-Wen, then it wou1d almost have to be part of the motion that this site p1an would on1y
be good for 12 months, right, and there cou1dn't be any further deve10pment on there.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-It brings you right back in to next June, though.
MR. MARTIN-Not even 12 months.
MRS. BAlFOUR-It'11 have to come back again. It's not going to stop the shopping center from going
together. That's regard1ess of the future p1ans of Mr. Passarelli.
MRS. PUlVER-I guess my on1y concern is that it's been many, many months since we saw the site plan
for the shopping center, since that approval was made, and I wou1d like to see how that shopping center
fits on here right now, with this new business.
MR. THOMAS-It's not going to be simu1taneous to it.
MRS. BALFOUR-The Mote1's going to run for this year, as is. They'11 be long gone before anything
happens.
MR. THOMAS-There wi11 be no shopping center there.
MRS. PULVER-So, when the shopping center goes in, you won't be there?
MR. THOMAS-That's correct.
MRS. PUlVER-A11 right. So, the Mote1 is there now, and you're stnl wi11ing to put in a septic tank
and bui1d a building.
MR. BREWER-No. The septic system's there he said.
MRS. PULVER-The septic system's a1ready there.
MR. BREWER-Where's the septic system on this?
MR. MARTIN-The septic system is even in the new location of the building, with the mirror image, here?
You're locating the septic and the building takes into consideration the mirror image effect, here,
that you can tie into it?
MR. THOMAS-Yes, sir. The septic tank is centra11y 10cated back. I believe there a drive opposite
that.
MR. MARTIN-There's an existing tank and 1eachfie1d a1ready on the site?
MR. THOMAS-That's correct.
MR. MARTIN-Have you had any contact with DOT about their initiation of a review of adequacy of the
driveway to accommodate the proposed increase in traffic? Again, I think Ed's point is the practica1
matter. wel1 taken.
MR. LAPOINT-You might as we11 end it right here and now. There's nothing you can do without them,
some traffic study.
MR. BREWER-You don't rea11y need the traffic study.
33
MR. LAPOINT-Wen, we already have one for this for the shopping center. It's obvious this isn't going
to be as heavy a loading as the shopping center, but they did a traffic study for the shopping center,
and we went through all that once, and what's the State say in their letter?
MRS. PULVER-They even offered to put a light in there or something, at one time, didn't they, and then
DOT turned it down.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, they were going to put a light in at the intersection, there by Cumberland Farms.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, but the State wouldn't go for it, or something.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, to initiate a review of the adequacy of the driveway to accommodate proposed increase
in traffic.
MR. BREWER-Are you going to put that on a slab, the crane?
MR. THOMAS-No, sir. We shore it up on hardwood underneath the outriggers. You have to use hardwood.
MR. BREWER-Didn't he say, when we were out there, he was going to put it on slabs?
MR. MARTIN-Wel1, does the Board want to try and look at a SEQRA on this? I think we're looking at,
again, a Type II use.
MRS. YORK-Unlisted.
MR. MARTIN-Unlisted. So, we're looking at a FUll EAF again. Okay, take us through it.
RESOWTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MDE
RESOlUTION NO. 34-92, Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy
Brewer:
MR. LAPOINT-IIImpact on Transportation: Win there be an effect to existing transportation systems?"
MR. LAURICELLA-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-I would say, Small to Moderate.
MR. LAPOINT-I'd say, No, because we've already approved a shopping center there that, if the shopping
center were there, you're going to have 10 times this amount of traffic that you have for this.
MR. BREWER-Were they going to take any other measures besides this? I'm just questioning. I wasn't
here when that was approved, but were they going to take any other measures?
MR. LAPOINT-I can't remember if there was a light associated with this or not. Was there, Jim?
MR. MARTIN-I don't think so.
MRS. PULVER-It was discussed and rejected.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. There was no light. What they did do was reconfigure the in and out.
MR. BREWER-And they haven't done this on this plan?
MR. LAPOINT-No.
MR. MARTIN-But, again, Ed's point is wen taken. This is a much less intense use than would occur
there if had the, I think it was 64,000 square feet that was proposed, or approved.
MRS. PULVER-It's a very big building.
MR. LAPOINT-And I think a Chinese restaurant was there before that, correct?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-The reason I say, sman to Moderate, in Hght of what's there, which is currently nothing,
this is a small increase.
MR. LAPOINT-I agree. I say, No, or Small to Moderate.
34
--
WHEREAS. there is presently before the Planning Board an application for: TOTAL RECOIL BUNGEE, INC.,
a site plan fOr a bungee ju.p1ng and fence, and
WHEREAS. this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is
subject to revièW under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having
considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact
as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken
by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board
is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance
or a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
MR. MARTIN-I forgot to open a public hearing. So, we'll suspend the further vote on the SEQRA, for
now. I'll open the public hearing. Is there anybody in the public present tonight who'd like to address
the Board regarding this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
FRED GILCHRIST
MR. GILCHRIST-Fred Gilchrist, Robert Gardens. I'd like to strongly object to this. I live at Robert
Gardens. I have a nice home. I enjoy it and it's quite peaceful and it causes Httle or no concern
to the Town. The video a short time ago, it showed us the jump. I did not show us, nor did we listen
to any of the noise when somebody does a jump and the horns start blowing. Those things they didn't
show us. There is no Noise Ordinance, as I understand it, in Queensbury. So, there's nothing we can
do along those lines. Traffic, we all agree, is a problem, but no one has mentioned that, right there
at Weeks Road, and at Sweet Road, is a transference section where we go from four lanes into two, going
north, and then from two to four going south. We have at least 10 restaurants generating traffic,
and four malls already there generating traffic. We also have several motels, including one that's
still in operation here. All of these generating traffic, and of course we have the tourists. We
also have the people, local people coming up to get their ice cream at Martha's. As you can see the
cars going by have the kids and the grownups, too. There's a crane that's going to jump, slow down,
I want to watch. Well, they can't slow down too much because they're going to get hit. So, they go
around the side streets and park. There is parking on some of the side streets, and also in some of
the parking lots there. That means you're going to have pedestrian traffic. Again you have a problem,
and going south it's not as bad because you're going from two lanes into four, but during the day time
hours. you may have seen or noticed the back up, occasionally, from the car wash, when you come all
the way out onto Route 9, that, also, is a problem. All in all, as a motel it's good. As a shopping
center, it's quite possible, but for this type of recreation, I'd like to suggest that the Board see
fit to deny it. Thank you.
MR. MARTIN-Thank you. I believe there were some other hands?
BRIAN GRANGER
MR. GRANGER-Brian Granger, luzerne Road, Queensbury. The septic system is still in place from the
restaurant area, and the septic is well capable of handling two rest-rooms, whatever's needed. Parking,
I think, is adequate. Access, I think, is adequate. There's a shopping center that's going to go
in there. I think the light use of this would be, it would be able to handle it. Scott's expressed
to me that he expects no more than 65 jumpers a day. So, I think it's going to create very Httle
traffic. Also, when we were tearing down the building, we were running a bulldozer on top of the
building, and I didn't see any accidents out front. So, I don't think there'll be a problem with it.
35
MR. BREWER-There's a big difference between a bull dozer knocking a building down and a bungee jumper.
MR. MARTIN-Thank you. Anyone else?
JIM DEMPSEY
MR. DEMPSEY-My name is Jim Dempsey. I represent the owners of Robert Gardens apartments. They have
asked me to speak to you, to object for many of the reasons that Mr. Gilchrist gave, but we could add
a few of my own. This crane is obviously a diesel operated crane?
MR. THOMAS-That's correct.
MR. DEMPSEY-So, a diesel is we11 known for fumes. We have enough fumes, now, from the campgrounds
next to us. This'11 be quite dose to the border of Robert Gardens Apartments. So, I presume you're
going to get noise and vibration along with it. I don't know how you're going to buffer the noise.
I don't think you can, and the fumes from the diesel mentioned, if the wind is blowing in the proper
direction, we're going to get it. That's all I have to say.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else from the public who'd like to come to the microphone, address
the Board?
PAUL BRANDT
MR. BRANDT-My name is Paul Brandt, and I gave you comments on the other application, and I'd like to
make the same comments, have them apply. The only question I had on this zoning, if they're zoned
for commercial, does that allow them to have commercial recreation there?
MR. MARTIN-We11, as I read the Highway Commercial zoning, some of the uses mentioned under site plan
review are amusement center or recreation facility operated for profit, and I believe those were the
categories in which this was directed to us under site plan.
MR. BRANDT-I wasn't sure about that. That's why I asked.
MR. MARTIN-That's my personal view.
MR. BRANDT-Okay. Thank you.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Is there anyone else at all who'd like to come forward?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MARTIN-I don't think that'11 impact too much on our SEQRA determination, in terms of what we said
about the.
MR. LAPOINT-I do have one fo11ow up question. Hours of operation? What do you propose for hours of
operation?
MR. THOMAS-Eleven o'clock until dusk.
MR. LAPOINT-Eleven a.m. until, give me a time, 8 p.m.? Eight p.m. I mean, we did this with the other
one. Okay. That's it for me.
MRS. TARANA-Can I ask a question? Mr. Gilchrist said something about horns. What was he talking about?
What were you talking about horns? You said if somebody doesn't jump, the horns go off?
MR. GILCHRIST-It's a natural tendency, when someone hesitates to jump, they're going to encourage them
by blowing the horns. They may even applaud them by blowing their horns.
MRS. TARANA-Car horns?
MR. GILCHRIST-Automobile horns, and is it possible to add one thought, here?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. GILCHRIST-Someone mentioned earlier, that I wasn't aware of it, there's power lines there. Perhaps
NiMo might be notified. If a crane ro11s over and hits a power line, you've got a king sized problem.
I don't know how close they are.
MR. MARTIN-Thank you.
MRS. TARANA-I hadn't thought about that noise before, and I don't know if that might effect, I forgot
what the SEQRA says regarding noise.
36
--
MR. LAPOINT-I've got it right here. Regarding noise, it's, "Noise and Odor impacts. Wi11 there be
objectionabìe odors, noise, or vibration as a resuìt of the proposed action? And the first example
is bìasting within 1500 feet of a hospital, schooì, or other sensitive faciìity, or proposed action
wiìì produce operating noise exceeding the ìocal ambient noise ìeveìs for noise outside structures,
and the third item is, wiìì remove naturaì barriers that would act as a noise screen, which I don't
think's appìicabìe. It would just be the third one. "Wi11 proposed action produce operating noise
exceeding the locaì ambient noise ìeveìs for noise outside of structures?"
MR. MARTIN-That means, to put it in layman's terms as best I can, anybody feel free to chime in, any
noises above and beyond the noises that are typicaì to the area, cars going by, in this case, generaì
background noise.
MR. LAURICELLA-There could be, if the horns.
MRS. TARANA-Yes, if they're tooting their horns, I wouìd imagine different than reguìar traffic.
MR. THOMAS-There's no documented evidence that peopìe go by and bìow their horns before someone jumps
off the crane. We're looking at 40 jumps a day, approximateìy 10 hours a day. That's four jumps an
hour, on average. These things take ìess than 20 seconds, up and down. So, you're looking at maybe
two minutes an hour that there's going to be any activity going up in the air anyway. Now, I don't
think there's anybody that can bring up any documented evidence where peopìe driving on the road bìow
their horns at somebody the tower. They probabìy can't see that far. Now, as far as the power Hnes
are concerned, we're not going to put a crane where there's a danger of fa11ing power ìines, and as
far as where these peopìe are in the apartment, I beìieve that these people that ìive to the west of
this ìot, the prevaiìing winds in this area are west to east. There's not going to be any dieseì fueì
blowing through the wind.
MRS. TARANA-Does the SEQRA say, Smaìl to Moderate?
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. You have, Sma11 to Moderate, potentia11y ìarge impact, and can impact be mitigated
by project change?
MRS. TARANA-I don't know, but I wouìd guess that there might be smaìì to moderate impact of noise leveì.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
AYES: Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Puìver, Mr. lauriceììa, Mr. Martin
NOES: Mrs. Tarana
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, we're through the SEQRA. and we've had the pubìic hearing. Okay. How does
everyone feel about this one? Do you see anything here that's different? I see this as somewhat of
a different situation, by its location, than the ìast one.
MR. LAPOINT-Right. I guess what I have on my list is that we wouìd want them to install two permanent
rest-rooms in that buiìding attached to the existing septic tanks.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I think you'd aìso want to start off by saying that the site plan shown is to be a
mirror image, and that's got to be submitted to the Pìanning Staff.
MR. LAPOINT-And I have no idea how to cìear the hurdìe with the State, if we even need to.
MRS. YORK-I think that's a separate issue that the appìicant wouìd have to address on his own.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, is there a driveway permit involved, lee?
MRS. YORK-Right. DOT wiìì have to review the ìand use and see if the driveway permit is stiìl
appìicabìe.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Okay.
MR. LAPOINT-I mean, that's even true for existing curb cuts? To me, the way Jim read this use in this
zone, this seemed appropriate. So, I mean, how can they take a look at this and say this is some type
of change?
MRS. YORK-What they said to me is that the permit was given for a specific type of ìand use. If there
is a change in land use, there shouìd be a review of the permit.
MR. MARTIN-See, I think they're within their own category of ìand use. I don't think our zoning
necessariìy appìies.
MRS. YORK-Right. They're not discussing our zoning at alì.
37
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MR. MARTIN-They're going to take their own look at this, in spite of what we say.
MR. LAPOINT-So, any approval, if we were to come up with an approval, would be pending DOT approval?
MR. MARTIN-I would imagine so. yes. like I say, existing curb cuts, and given what was there, there
was a restaurant there before.
MR. LAPOINT-Right.
MR. MARTIN-Which the curb cuts served. So, I don't see that they're going to have a problem, but,
again, they're in their own field of review there.
MR. LAPOINT-This will take them months.
MR. MARTIN-No, it won't, because I had a driveway permit from the State on a State Highway for my house.
They' n be there, if you place a can to Herb Steffins, they' H have Fred Stone come down and do a
field inspection of the site within a week or two, and a driveway permit's really not all that bad.
MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, it would be just as simple as saying, pending DOT approval. Okay. Now, in
terms of the power Hnes, the boom's 160 foot in length, and where we are, with a mirror image, is
going to be how many feet back from the power lines?
MR. THOMAS-Whatever it is. I don't have a scale with me.
MR. LAPOINT-I guess the stipulation I would add is that if the boom, God forbid, tips over, it would
not hit the power line.
MR. THOMAS-Good idea.
MR. LAURICELLA-How are you going to do that?
MR. LAPOINT-You know the length of the boom, and you know the distance to the power line.
MR. LAURICElLA-He's going to reverse it. He's going to be right in the corner of two power lines,
if you look at the map.
MR. LAPOINT-WeH, that's why I asked. If he's not going to answer my question, I don't know how I'm
going to put it in a stipulation. I guess I need to know how far away we're going to be from the power
lines. Are the power lines shown on here?
MR. LAURICELLA-Yes.
MR. THOMAS-Sure we can. The power lines run this way. The crane runs this way. So, we'll just have
to pun that thing up just far enough to where it's not going to flip. It'n miss the power line.
We're going to be diagonal to the power line.
MR. LAPOINT-We'll say they've got to be 200 feet away, any direction you fall.
MR. LAURICELLA-Two hundred feet away, he'll never put it in that corner. If the boom's 165 feet, right,
I mean, you've got to have some margin of safety. $0, I'm saying, 200 feet, because I don't have a
scale, and that's not my job to do this part of this tonight. and if you send us something that isn't
even correct, and we've got to do all this mirror image stuff, how can we do it, and if I say 200 feet,
you can't say, then I'm not going to put it in my motion. I'm not going to make the motion.
MR. THOMAS-I'm going to be putting the boom 200 feet.
MR. LAPOINT-Anywhere from that boom 200 feet out does not hit a power line.
MR. LAURICELLA-You can't do that.
MR. LAPOINT-Somebody else can make the motion, then.
MR. BREWER-He can't because he's only 175 feet back from the road.
MR. LAPOINT-This is my point. If you don't have the drawings, and you don't have somebody to answer
the question, I'm not going to make the motion. Somebody else can do it.
MR. BREWER-I agree with you.
MR. MARTIN-What Ed's saying is it creates a problem when we have to redesign, here, because of a mirror
image having to be shown. It's tough to picture.
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MR. LAPOINT-I mean, if you come up with a number, and I know your boom's 165 feet ta11, I don't think
I'm going to buy 185 feet. I'm saying, 165 feet, I want 200 feet, to be comfortab1e, especia11y without
a drawi ng.
MR. THOMAS-You won't accept, as necessary, whatever that number is?
MR. LAPOINT-No, because I don't want to miss it by a foot, because I don't think that's, I don't think
the thing's ever going to tip over, but it's in our Town notes, here, and we shou1d address it. If
it's not in our Town notes, we don't need to address it, but it's in our notes.
MR. THOMAS-I have a suggestion. lets get this thing figured out with the crane. Why don't we tab1e
this thing unti1 we can get some directions.
MR. MARTIN-I think that's what we were coming to very quick1y, here.
MR. THOMAS-We'11 figure out the trans1ation of this thing, and figure out what we need.
MR. LAPOINT-If that's done, sure.
MR. MARTIN-So, then, you're consenting to a tab1ing? I think that wou1d be good.
MR. LAPOINT-Yes. There's 10ts of other issues, here. I mean, that's not the on1y one. I'm trying
to formu1ate a motion that would get you through here tonight, which I don't think wou1d pass. So,
don't go away thinking that you fixed this 200 foot, 166 foot or whatever and think that that's going
to c1ear up the rest of the issues.
MR. MARTIN-We11, what I want to do, for the sake of the app1icant, then, is to let him 1eave here with
a firm 1ist of what our concerns are, and give him a fu11 opportunity to address those before he comes
back before us. We, natural1y, want to see a correct drawing that shows the mirror image. That's
Number One, and then show that it can address the power line question.
MR. BREWER-When is this going to be tabled until?
MR. MARTIN-Unti1 he comes in with his next app1ication, if it's next month, if it's two months, whenever
he can get his information in. I'd 1ike to see, if we are going to have permanent bathroom facHities
in that buHding, then, the connection to the septic tank, where the tHe fie1d is, an that stuff,
so the Bui1ding Inspector wi11 have that at his disposal.
MR. THOMAS-Do you just want us to locate that on the map?
MR. MARTIN-Right, the septic tank and the tile fie1d. I'd like to see the driveway permit issue squared
away by then. You should be able to do that within a couple of weeks time. Warren County disapproved,
so you're going to need a majority p1us one, which it's come to my understanding tonight, now, that'l1
be a unanimous approva1 of the members present, because I be1ieve we're losing another member, as it's
been indicated to me tonight. So, not un1ess some quick action is taken, we're going to be down to
five members in Ju1y. Anything e1se? Did I miss anything? Ed, do you have anything on your list?
MR. LAPOINT-No, that was it.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Cou1d I have a motion, then?
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 34-92 TOTAL RECOIL BUNGEE, INC., Introduced by Edward laPoint who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
At the app1icant's request, to address the fol1owing issues: That the appHcant dea1 with and gain
DOT approva1 for access on and off Route 9 as quickly as possib1e. That the appHcant provide an
accurate site plan showing the 10cation of the crane pad and landing zone, and parking. That the
appHcant show two permanent rest-rooms, one mens room, one 1adies room, and the connection to the
existing septic tank, and that the applicant consider adequate c1earance from the power lines, whatever
that may be, not on1y for the boom, but the jumpers themselves. The operating hours be limited to
11 a.m. to 8 p.m. That al1 signs on the site p1an conform to Town Code, and that the appHcant file
for an the necessary permits through the Building Inspector. That there be no music p1ayed on
10udspeakers or associated with the jumping. No portab1e bathrooms, that the portable bathrooms be
removed from the site p1an. lighting be kept to a minimum for the 1ast hours of operation, area f100ds
as appropriate, and they've got to be shie1ded and/or def1ected away from traffic, shown on the p1ans.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the fol10wing vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
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MR. MARTIN-Okay. We just have one note, here, from leon Steves, regarding Hera1d Square, Phase II.
"As you know, the deve10per is proposing to donate land in Heu of recreation fees. The recreation
department has viewed the 1and but has not made any decision yet nor have the other boards. Therefore,
we are asking for a six month extension of the approva1 before it is necessary to fi1e subdivision
p1ans."
MR. MARTIN-lee, I believe I need a motion to that effect, right?
MRS. YORK-Right.
MOTION REGARDING SUBDIVISION NO. 13-1986 HERALD SQUARE, PHASE II, FOR AN ADDITIONAL SIX MONTH EXTENSION
TO DECEMBER 16TH, Introduced by Car01 Pu1ver who moved for its adoption, seconded by Edward laPoint:
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the fol10wing vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. lauricel1a. Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. MARTIN-I can everyone's attention to the letter that was distributed to us at the beginning of
the meeting for a requested meeting with the Town Board for June 29th at 7:30. Does anybody e1se have
anything e1se? lee has a matter for us.
MRS. YORK-I would 1ike to go into Executive Session on a matter regarding potentia1 1itigation.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. LAPOINT-Do we have to c1ear any other business, first?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, if there is any other business before the Board? Mr. O'Connor?
MICHAEL O'CONNOR
MR. O'CONNOR-My reason for coming was also to be sure that we keep moving with Phase II. We sent you
a forma1 notice of suggestion that you put out to other Boards that we have a time frame in that notice.
I think that's a forma 1 notice requirement of your Ordinance, that says that you put notice out to
the Planner. the Town Board, and to the Recreation Board saying that this Board win consider, at a
meeting, the acceptance of land in 1ieu of recreation fee, on Phase II.
MR. MARTIN-We wi11 consider it?
MR. O'CONNOR-You wi11 consider it.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. I thought that was for the Town Board to consider. See, this is an new to me.
MRS. YORK-In State law, it 1eaves it up to the Planning Board to consider it, or accept it, and the
Town of Queensbury has norma11y has practiced that the Town Board does this. I'm sure these two Board
cou1d work this out amiab1y.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-The local Ordinance is kind of c1ear. It says that this Board cannot do it unti1 it gives
formal notice to the Town Board, to the Recreation Commission, and to the P1anner.
MR. MARTIN-I thought we had done that.
MR. O'CONNOR-That's what I sent you. I drew one and sent it to you, as a suggested notice. I don't
know if it's gone out or not. I'm just trying to make sure that it's on an agenda, not something that
fal1s through the cracks.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. I wou1d have no prob1em sending that a10ng for the Town Board's consideration.
MR. O'CONNOR-Phase II of Hera1d Square.
BETTY MONAHAN
MRS. MONAHAN-That was just brought to our attention, last night, very late, after a meeting, probably
11 o'c10ck at night, and we said we cou1d not discuss it at that time of night and we said the attorney
would dea1 with it, and we do not have a recommendation from the Recreation Commission on this.
MR. O'CONNOR-We have a procedure, Mrs. Monahan, set forth in the Subdivision Regulations.
MRS. MONAHAN-I rea1ize that.
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MR. O'CONNOR-Okay, and this is alì that I'm trying to do is get us in track with that procedure. That
procedure says that this Board should give formaì. written notice to the other Boards and to the Pìanner
that they win consider it, at a speciaì meeting. What that does it that then puts it on the other
Boards, a requirement that they get their recommendations in.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I have it right here, Mike.
MRS. YORK-Yes. It was given to the Pìanning Board.
MR. MARTIN-Notice of Deveìopers Desire to Dedicate land for Recreationaì Area. Okay. What we need.
then, is a motion to the effect that we provide written notice to the Town Board, the Planning
Department, and the Recreation Commission, of the deveìopers desire to dedicate ìand for recreationaì
area, okay. It's nothing beyond a written notice, right.
MR. O'CONNOR-And at what meeting you wiìì consider your finaì action on this suggestion.
MR. MARTIN-And that has to be a noticed meeting, a pubìicly noticed meeting?
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't think it has to be pubìicìy noticed, but you have to give these Boards notice
of that meeting.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-At ìeast 10 days prior to that meeting.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Aìì right. I see.
MR. O'CONNOR-I think that, as I read through these reguìations, I think I even left a bìank there in
that Notice. You couìd actuaìly use that Notice.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Weìì, what we couìd do is we could date the Notice tonight and provide it to these
three groups for consideration at our July meeting. I was hoping we couìd do it next week, but we
don't have 10 days notice, now. So, we can do this, and they'n have a whole months time to know that
we're doing this. Is that?
MRS. MONAHAN-I don't know how that time schedule is. Once they notify us, how ìong do we have to act?
MR. O'CONNOR-You have to have at ìeast 10 days.
MRS. MONAHAN-We don't have another Town Board meeting, though, untiì.
MR. BREWER-The 29th, Betty.
MR. MARTIN-Why don't we do it the 29th when we have our joint meeting.
MRS. MONAHAN-But that's not a reguìar Town Board. You couìd discuss it, then, but I think the decision
shouìd come at a regular Town Board meeting.
MR. BREWER-I thought it had to be at our meeting?
MR. MARTIN-We11, it has to come at our meeting. We have to notify you when we're going to consider
this at one of our reguìar meetings.
MRS. PULVER-Well, you meet on the first Monday of the month.
MRS. MONAHAN-The first Monday of the month.
MRS. PULVER-So, if this was sent to them.
MR. MARTIN-It doesn't matter when their meetings are. It matters when our meetings are.
MRS. PULVER-Yes, but that's what I'm saying. They're going to meet the 3rd of July, or 2nd of July,
or whatever, and they will discuss it then, and then we win say, we are going to take it up at our
twenty something meeting in July.
MR. MARTIN-Yes, that's alì we have to do.
MRS. MONAHAN-But does that meet a11 the time constraints within that ìegisìation? That's what I'm
wondering.
MR. MARTIN-The time constraints are fairìy, there's 180 days.
41
--
--
MR. O'CONNOR-The time constraints are minimums that the Board can waive.
MRS. MONAHAN-They're minimum, they're not maximum?
MR. O'CONNOR-No.
MRS. MONAHAN-Okay, because the way I heard it, we on1y had 10 days to act, and that's a minimum. We
don't have to give an answer by 10 days, is that correct? Because we won't have another meeting in
10 days.
MR. MARTIN-A11 right.
MR. O'CONNOR-I know the Recreation Commission has a1ready been out to the site, and we spoke, I think
maybe when we got the fina1 approva1 we made that offer. lee has had notice of it at 1east since then.
MR. MARTIN-See, I thought that's what we did at that meeting, is we noticed a11 the Boards. All right,
wen, why don't we, then, make a motion to do this tonight, and then the motion it'l1 read for the
Ju1y 21st, 1992 meeting.
MOTION TO PROVIDE WRITTEN NOTICE OF œVElOPERS DESIRE TO DEDICATE LAND FOR RECREATIONAL USE, Introduced
by Car01 Pu1ver who moved for its adoption, seconded by Edward laPoint:
We want to send this to the Town Board, Town of Queensbury, To the Planning Department, the Town of
Queensbury, and to the Recreation Commission, the Town of Queensbury, dated June 16, 1992, for
consideration at our Ju1y 21st, 1992 meeting.
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the following vote:
MR. O'CONNOR-There is a paragraph there, you might want to see if the Board coincides with my
phrase010gy.
MR. MARTIN-letter I of the Notice, A genera1 description of the nature of the land offered for
dedication, wooded area with the year round brook running through same, brook being known as C1endon
Brook with two access-ways, 20 feet wide, to be provided from public highway. This wou1d be an idea1
area for simp1e nature wa1k with possibiJity of some bridges crossing C1endon Brook. This is a trout
brook and does have a great potentia1 for being a scenic quite recreationa1 area.
MR. LAPOINT-love it.
MRS. MONAHAN-Is the amount of 1and detailed there?
MR. MARTIN-Amount of land proposed to be dedicated for recreational use, 20.90 PIus or minus acres,
and he a1so cites the Tax Map 10t numbers. It seems pretty comprehensive. Zoning District, he gives
SR-20 zoning. It gives the location according to street.
MR. BREWER-How are you going to identify the 20 foot strips of land going in there, a Htt1e path or
something?
MR. O'CONNOR-Typical1y, the peop1e wiJ1 put some type of barrier so that the people using those paths
don't go on their 10ts, whether it be by short strokes, or something of that nature, or a fence.
Probably the best example is the walkway from Horicon Avenue into Crandal1 Park, both adjoining owners
have built fences and maintain fences a10ng there so that everybody going into Crandal1 Park doesn't
wa1k across the corner of their 10ts or through their 10ts, through their backyards, and, typical1y,
I think that that's what we wou1d do.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. So, we'11 send this off today, and the on1y thing, in letter J, has to be changed
from June to July 21st, 1992. Can we do this through your office, lee? Can this be mai1ed out?
MRS. YORK-Sure.
AYES: Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
MR. MARTIN-A11 right. We had a request from lee to go into Executive Session.
MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS lITIGATION, Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Car01 Pulver:
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the f0110wing vote:
42
'"
-'",--,-- .
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
tlJTION TO COME ooT OF EXECUTIVE SESSION, Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Car01 Pu1ver:
Du1y adopted this 16th day of June, 1992, by the f0110wing vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pu1ver, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. laurice11a, Mr. laPoint, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Martin
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFUllY SUBMITTED,
James Martin, Chairman
43