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1993-02-04 SP '-- ~ QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 4TH, 1993 INDEX THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. '---" QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 4TH, 1993 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT TIMOTHY BREWER, ACTING CHAIRMAN CORINNE TARANA, SECRETARY ROGER RUEL CRAIG MACEWAN CAROL PULVER KATHLEEN ROWE EDWARD LAPOINT EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI MR. LAPOINT-Paul wrote us a letter on what our options are, and they boil down to four options, and actually you may want to take the time to read all of it. When you're done, why don't you start. MRS. ROWE-Why didn't we get this at our home, so I could have read it this afternoon? MR. MARTIN-It came to my desk about quarter of five. MR. LAPOINT-We're just going to decide what we want to do tonight. I guess that's our purpose. MRS. PULVER-Yes. I think we need to make a decision. MRS. ROWE-Is this for resubmission of a name? MRS. PULVER-Well, that's what we're going to decide. MRS. ROWE-Well, what does it mean when it says, "continue with the current and properly designated Chairman? MR. LAPOINT-That's me, according to Mr. Dusek. MRS. ROWE-Okay, because I thought at this point we only have an Acting Chairman. I didn't think we had a "designated" Chairman. MR. MARTIN-I think that's new information, based on the research he did. MR. LAPOINT-What it boils down to is that I was the last duly elected Vice Chairman when the Chairman resigned. Correct? MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. LAPOINT-Which makes me Chairman, okay. Now we had an election where we elected a Chairman, a Vice Chairman, and a Secretary, that the Town threw out the Chairman. MRS. TARANA-It doesn't make you the Chairman. MR. LAPOINT-Acting Chairman. MRS. TARANA-Right, but this says specifically, the properly designated Chairman. MR. MACEWAN-Well, he is properly designated Chairman. MRS. TARANA-He's the Vice Chairman taking over for the Chairman. 1 "'--- -.../ MR. LAPOINT-Correct. MR. MARTIN-I think the preceding paragraph is important to be noted. Also, even if the office of the Chairman is arguably only one year, it would seem allowable for him to hold over until his successor is selected. MRS. ROWE-Well, it also always seem to have the that means, no matter override? says in here that the Town Board would also right to remove or name a new Chairman. So what they say. they have the right to MR. LAPOINT-Correct. MRS. PULVER-You're right. MR. LAPOINT-And boiling all that away, because I don't think it really matters, what we have to do is decide, hopefully decide tonight, what we're going to do, as a Board, and give the Town Board another shot at this. Right? I mean. is that it? MR. BREWER-That's pretty much, the only thing we ~ do. MR. LAPOINT-And if we were clever, and we put a resolution in there that they don't like, they have to, I mean, the way I read the first page is that they probably should have designated a Chairman when they dumped Carol. MR. RUEL-Well, it would have been nice if they did, but they don't have to. MR. LAPOINT-No, they don't have to, but if we were to put it in our resolution, that if we cleverly crafted a resolution. MR. RUEL-I don't think you can do that. MR. LAPOINT-We can say anything we want. MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Yes, but it doesn't mean that they'll pay attention. MR. LAPOINT-If they don't pay attention, that null and voids it and we can pick whoever we want, and that's the way I read the first page. If we do our resolution in the right way, and they do not appoint a Chairman, they fail under their obligation under Section 272 to appoint a Chairman. If they fail to appoint a Chairman. MR. RUEL-They've already failed. MR. LAPOINT-They already have done it once. MR. RUEL-So what's the difference? MR. LAPOINT-What's the difference, right. MR. RUEL-They already failed. MR. LAPOINT-So we can appoint our own? MR. BREWER-No. The way Paul explained it to me today was that they didn't fail to appoint one. They were handed a resolution. and they failed to pass that resolution. It's not that they failed to appoint somebody. MR. LAPOINT-So, turned it down, select. if we made our resolution properly, that they then it would say that now it reverts to us to MR. BREWER-Right. Exactly. So, in other words, if we give them a 2 "--" ----- name, and they say no, and don't appoint somebody, it comes back to us and we determine who we want? MR. LAPOINT-Right. I mean, we could cleverly put that in there. I think we could do that. MR. RUEL-This could go on forever. MR. BREWER-No, it couldn't. It could only go. MR. LAPOINT-Once. MR. BREWER-Tonight is the final straw. MRS. PULVER-No, because when I talked to Paul Dusek, he said that even if you appoint someone tonight. MR. RUEL-They could still reject it. MRS. PULVER-Absolutely. Board. You're here at the pleasure of the Town MR. BREWER-I understand that, Carol, but if we do what Ed is saying, if we give them language that says, this is our choice, if you like it, fine. If you don't, appoint somebody, then if they don't appoint somebody, it comes back to us and we make a decision. MR. RUEL-You can't do that. MR. LAPOINT-Well, that's what it says here. That's what it says here, that if they somehow fail under their obligation to appoint a Chairman, and our resolution is that specific, that you, by not designating a Chairman, that it failed to designate the Chairman or carry out your obligation under the law, then it comes back to us, and we can make our own. MR. BREWER-It says, the Planning Board shall elect a Chairman from its own members. MR. RUEL-Why can't we do that now? MR. LAPOINT-Yes, we're going to do that now. MR. RUEL-Why do we have to go back to the Town Board? MR. LAPOINT-You can skip that step altogether, and say that they. MRS. TARANA-You already did that step, and now we should be at this next step. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. MRS. PULVER-Wait a minute, the option is, you can either elect a new Chairman right now, it does not have to go to the Town Board. However, that person can be removed if the Town Board doesn't like them. They can remove them, okay, or you can resubmit the original ballot, whatever, for their consideration, and designate, at that time, that if they do not ratify that person, then they are to choose the Chairman, and my feeling is that I'm not going to do the work of the Town Board. I'm not going to vote for somebody else. I want to just resubmit and let them pick their own Chairman, because who's to say the next person we pick is going to be approved by the Town Board? And why should we pick someone for them? MR. MACEWAN-Who's to say that the next person we nominate won't be approved? MRS. PULVER-I'm Qot, I'm not, but why should we do their work? We could go through all seven of us. 3 '-- -.../ MR. RUEL-As long as we name someone who doesn't have pol i tical ambitions. MRS. PULVER-And won't speak their mind. Right. MR. RUEL-Legally, can't we appoint someone and skip the Town Board completely? MR. BREWER-No. MR. RUEL-We need some words in here that says we can. MR. MACEWAN-We can't appoint. We can only make a recommendation. MR. RUEL-We made a recommendation. denied. Now, isn't it our option? We did that already. It was MR. MARTIN-I draw your attention to the third paragraph, though, it says. MRS. ROWE-What page? MR. MARTIN-The third paragraph of the whole thing. MR. RUEL-As a general proposition? MR. MARTIN-Yes. In addition, the Attorney General for the State of New York has ruled that the designation of a member of a Town Planning Board as Chairperson may be withdrawn at the pleasure of the Town Board. So, I think that would mean that you could go ahead and elect a Chairman, in this case, and consider your jobs to be done, but the Town Board at any point in the year can just say, that's not right. MRS. PULVER-Jim, I understand. If this Board wants to elect another Chairman tonight, from the seven members, that settles it. We do not have to send it to the Town Board for ratification, but that does not mean that the Town Board will not step in tomorrow and say, we don't want that person. MR. RUEL-But the Town Law 272 allows us, we made a recommendation, it was denied, now we can elect a Chairman, according to Town Law 272. MRS. PULVER-Right. MR. RUEL-However, you have to keep reading, right? The Attorney General, he had to put his two cents in here. MR. MARTIN-That's true at any point in the something should happen where the Town Board what the Chairman has done or an action he's has taken. year. I mean, if is not pleased with taken, or he or she MR. BREWER-Even if this is going so, and we say, all right, we're going to elect a Chairman, whether they like it or not, they can step in tomorrow and say, wrong, we don't want that person? MR. MARTIN-They could step in tomorrow. months from now. They could step in six MR. MACEWAN-Where does it say in any of this that we can elect a Chairman? MR. RUEL-Right here in this third paragraph. a point, the Town Law also notes, however, that if the Town Board fails to appoint a Chairman, the Planning Board shall elect a Chairman from its own members. What does that mean? MRS. PULVER-The third choice, Ed, is, we do nothing, and you remain 4 '--' "-'" Chairman. MR. LAPOINT-We've got to do somethinQ tonight. MR. MACEWAN-The question is, here, has or has not the Town Board exercise their option to appoint? MRS. PULVER-No. MR. RUEL-No. They could, but they don't have to. MRS. ROWE-My question is, why didn't the Town Board, if they desired to, designate someone after Jim left the Planning Board and I came on? MR. BREWER-Because it was so late in the year they probably figured that Ed, it was two months, wasn't it? MR. LAPOINT-Yes. MR. BREWER-Ed' 11 take over until the end of the year, and then when we have our organizational meeting, we'll go through the process again, and it was left at that. They figured probably, I'm just guessing, there was only a couple of meetings left, let it go until the end of the year, and then see what they want to do. MRS. PULVER-Normally, the Town Board never interferes. MR. RUEL-What are you writing up there? MR. LAPOINT-The options, just like yours, Roger. Consider the Board to have failed, select, failed to select. We select tonight. Let Board deny us. MR. RUEL-Stick to original goal, resubmit, tell them to vote or select a new Chairman. That's one option. Reelect new Chair tonight. MR. LAPOINT-Then send it to the Town Board. over again. Do the whole thing MR. RUEL-Depending on who you would like, they can. MR. LAPOINT-Right, one way or the other. MR. RUEL-They have the option to deny it anyway. MR. LAPOINT-Then we can do our real clever resolution. MR. RUEL-Number Three, I like that. When's your term up? MR. LAPOINT-1997. MR. RUEL-Really? Number Three, that's good right there. What's the matter with Number Three? We don't have to do anything, and we can have a short meeting, and leave, and everything is taken care of. MR. MACEWAN-Any way you look at it, we should recommend someone. MR. LAPOINT-To me, you've got to do something. MR. BREWER-Have a vote and decide who we want, whether it be you or. MR. MARTIN-Before you vote, Paul told me on the phone today, the only person who can become Chairman by recommendation only is Ed, because he was the old Chairman. Anybody else has to be by election. 5 ~ -- MR. BREWER-So, if we have a vote, with any nominations, or, we can just do that and get out of here. MR. RUEL-How do you want to run this? MRS. PULVER-Well, we can go around the room, if you want, and everybody can voice their opinions? I'd be glad to be first. and voice my opinion, which is, I am not re-voting. I am very happy to resubmit to the Town Board, ~nd have them pick a Chairman, if they choose to deny me again. I think it looks bad for us to re-vote. I think we lose our credibility. I think if we allow the Town Board to dictate to us, it's only a matter of time. befiore theYd take over the whole Planning Staff, as well as the Plann ng Boarl. I think any applicant that comes before us from now on is going to look at us as, well, they changed their vote once, maybe if we hammer them enough, we put enough political pressure on them. we can get them to change their vote again, for whatever. MR. RUEL-You mentioned that we're at the mercy of the Town Board. We are. Always. MRS. PULVER-No. We shouldn't be. MR. RUEL-But we are. MRS. PULVER-We should not be. We have never been before. been on this Board for three years. I've MR. MACEWAN-You entered the political arena the minute you interviewed for the job on the Planning Board, or the Town Board. Those are the people who politically put you in the position on the Planning Board, the Zoning Board, or any other Board. MRS. PULVER-So, what does that mean? MR. MACEWAN-Well, I mean, you're saying that politics shouldn't enter into it. Politics enters into it the minute anyone of us interviewed for the job of any Board in this Town. MR. RUEL-Politics should enter into it. There's nothing wrong with that. MRS. PULVER-Well, yes. It's all right, but you shouldn't be under pol i tical pre ssure to do what you're supposed to be doing as a private citizen. We're just a private citizen Board. We shouldn't be under pressure to do the work of the Town Board. MR. MACEWAN-Personally, I don't think we're under any pressure. MRS. PULVER-Well, I think right now they're forcing, what was wrong with the first Chairman? The person that was elected to serve this Board, I don't feel was an inappropriate person, just to serve the Board. I have no reason, even now, to believe that that person could not fulfill the duties of Chairman. MR. MACEWAN-Meaning you. MRS. PULVER-Meaning, yes. MR. MACEWAN-That's something that we've discussed about before. That's something that you should take up with the Town Board. Obviously they don't feel you're the person to do it. MRS. PULVER-But that doesn't matter. This Board elected me. MR. MACEWAN-No. between "elect" The "nominated" you. There's a big difference and "nominate", big difference. MR. RUEL-This Board recommends only. 6 '-- -' MRS. PULVER-Did we vote or didn't we? Did we vote that day? MR. LAPOINT-It was a four to two. We sent Carol, it 1 S a shame, because I think we do this every year, and if we paced ourselves, everybody would get to be Chairman, within our term, seven members, everybody's term is a seven year term. I think that's the fairest thing to the public in general. You get the broadest spectrum of people running the meeting. MR. RUEL-It's usually done on the basis of seniority, isn't it? MR. LAPOINT-I would feel that way, and I know people would disagree with that. MR. RUEL-Other Boards I've been on, that's exactly the way they've operated. MR. LAPOINT-Right. To me it seems like a shame, because Carol could have been Chairman for a year, and then we would have had someone else, possibly this November, possibly next January, we'd have a new Chairman, and that person would go on, and then the next one after that. MR. MARTIN-I do recall we had that discussion in the Fall of '91. MR. LAPOINT-Yes. correct? See, we had one Chairman for seven years, MR. MARTIN-No. We had one for 18. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Then we had Pete, and Pete took a year's shot at it, and then Jim for 10 months, and then me for the two month's span in there, which was fine. MR. MARTIN-I do recall a discussion in the Fall of '91. that you thought it would be a good idea, as a Board, to rotate the Chairmanship. MR. LAPOINT-Yes. I guess that's my concept of what it should be. MR. MARTIN-But that's just an informal approach by the Board. There is no set procedure, and there never has been in the past, that I ever heard of. MR. LAPOINT-And even from just my two months, there's no power involved. All you do is get to run a meeting, and that's about it for a year. MR. RUEL-Well, it doesn't matter to me. qualified. I think everybody is MR. MARTIN-The other thing would just highlight, as Staff, is I just think it is important to remember that this is an appointed Board, and that structure of establishing a Planning Board was done by design, as appointed members, and not elected or anything like that. MR. RUEL-We're all appointed. MR. MARTIN-To be free from political, or populous pressure or anything like that. MR. LAPOINT-Well, that's not what's come to bear recently. I mean, again, not assuming that there's questions of qualifications. MR. MACEWAN-Okay. We know what Carol wants to do. She wants to resubmit her nomination. Roger, what do you want to do? MR. RUEL-Okay. That's one option, right? That's Number One? That's part of Number One. If we resubmit now, did you want words 7 '---' -' in there to the effect that if it's denied, that they must select? MR. LAPOINT-Yes. That's the way I see it. You send it back to them, resubmit them, and tell them to vote, or select a Chair. MR. RUEL-So what you're saying is, if they don't select, then we have the option to? MR. LAPOINT-Yes. MR. BREWER-So what you're saying, Carol, is you want them to appoint somebody? MRS. PULVER-Yes. I think that's what they should do, because what they've done, in effect, is say that they want us to do their work. I'm not going to do the ir work. They need to do it themselves. They don't like this Board's choice. So now, and for what I consider no reasons they've given, there's no reason for me to believe that the next choice this Board makes they're going to like any better, or the third choice or the fourth choice, or whatever. So, I say, you choose. because why should we, Number One, have to keep going through this until we come up with whoever it is that they "have in the back of their mind", or that they want. MRS. ROWE-Well, I agree with that aspect, that obviously they must have someone in the back of their mind that they wish to have as the Chairman, so why are we going through all of this in the first place? MR. RUEL-I don't think so. They have in their minds the person they don't want. That's all they have. MR. BREWER-That's exactly what it is. MRS. PULVER~But there's no reason for that, Roger. MR. RUEL-Of course not, but it's a fact, all right, and it happened and that's it. We have to live with it. MRS. PULVER-No we don't. MR. RUEL-Yes, you do, because they have the option. W~ don't. MRS. PULVER-Well, they do, but I mean, I don't think that we have to sacrifice the integrity of this Board, and. MR. RUEL-We're not going to sacrifice anything. I'm not. MRS. PULVER-All right. MRS. ROWE-I just don't have every week of the month to come back here and redo this again. MR. LAPOINT-Yes. No matter what, this should somehow end at eight o'clock tonight, no matter what. MR. RUEL-I' m in favor of Item Number Three. Just let it sit. Things may develop in the next couple of months that change everything. MR. LAPOINT-My guess is, if not pressured to make a decision, they will not make a decision. If you went with Number Three, unless they felt some pressure to appoint someone else, they may just let that ride. MR. RUEL-Yes. Right. They will. MRS. PULVER-But I will say when I spoke with Paul that he said that, in fact I think he said in here, to do nothing is. 8 --- MR. LAPOINT-No. He doesn't recommend that. MRS. PULVER-Yes, is least favored. MR. RUEL-The one ~ picked? MRS. PULVER-Yes, Number Three. It's the least favored. MR. MACEWAN-Corinne, what do you want to do? MRS. TARANA-I'd like to reelect a new Chair. I think that it's very important that the Chairman be able to work with all the Town committees, the Town Boards, most especially, and I think Carol's in an adversarial relationship with that Town Board, and I don't think she would be able to work with them and represent us, at this point. So, I would not be for resubmitting, and I don't think we should leave it up to them. I think we should elect our own Chairman. MR. MACEWAN-Tim, what do you want to do? MR. BREWER-I don't necessarily think we, but I think we should have another election, not necessarily reelecting a new Chairman, whatever happens happens. I think that's what we should do. Whether Carol gets reelected again, so be it, we'll resubmit it, but if she doesn't, another name goes up, then that one goes to the Town Board, whether it be Carol, whether it be Ed, whether it be, whomever, but I think we should have an election and just send it in to the Board. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. I think the two, Corinne and Tim sounded to me like the same. MRS. TARANA-No. I don't think we sound the same. MR. LAPOINT-Well, elect someone and submit, basically. MR. BREWER-I'm saying elect somebody. She's saying elect somebody else. MRS. TARANA-Yes. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. I wouldn't necessarily say elect, I mean, if we had a secret ballot, and Carol won again, you would certainly go along with that submittal? MRS. TARANA-I'm not saying I wouldn't go along. I'm saying I would not recommend her for Chairman. MR. LAPOINT-Right, or you wouldn't vote or nominate her, obviously, but say she were nominated and elected again, you would certainly say, yes, okay, lets send that name up? MRS. TARANA-You have no choice. You do what the majority rules. MR. LAPOINT-Right. It's the same thing. MR. RUEL-This would be a recommendation to the Town Board? MR. MACEWAN-Yes. MR. LAPOINT-Just like last time. MR. RUEL-Not an election by the Planning Board. MR. BREWER-What I would think, we would have a secret ballot, and whoever wants to be nominated would be nominated, and vote on it and send it to the Town Board as such. MR. RUEL-It's okay by me. If you take Item Three, you'll be faced 9 --- ~ with this anyway, eventually. with now. So you might as well get it over MR. MACEWAN-Nominate a Chairman. MR. LAPOINT-Nominate a Chairman and vote? MR. MACEWAN-Yes. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Where were you on this? MRS. ROWE-No. I think we have to nominate and re-vote. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Well, there's five. Where am I? Again, I just think it's really unfortunate they didn't pick and go with our choice. I think no matter what we do we end up in the same place, which is having them select our Chairman, either by us voting again, or by them, by default, picking someone, and there's already a majority there. So, I think we have to vote again, regardless of what I would do. So, if we're going to do a secret ballot, do we need nominations and all that stuff, or can we just rattle through four or five ballots until a majority, we agree that four wins, or, how would we have our election? Do we want four to win. or do we want just a simply majority to win, like somebody could win with two votes? MRS. PULVER-No. I think they'd have to have. MR. BREWER-A majority of the Board. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So that would be, out of seven of us, we'd have to have one name in four votes for a winner. MRS. ROWE-Are we going to go with the original slate that we had the first time, or? MR. LAPOINT-I would say no slates. Again, we can debate that. I'm just thinking that, here we go again. MRS. ROWE-I mean, we had several names that were very interested. Of course, Roger wasn't here that night, but we had several names that were very interested, and I'm just wondering if all those people are still interested after this, or? MR. LAPOINT-Well, I told everybody I wasn't interested because I would have liked to have Carol as Chairman, but if she doesn't want to be Chairman, or I know she does, but if she doesn't want to be Chairman, then I'd like to be Chairman, and for the exact reasons I expressed the last time around, that being second in seniority, I think, does count as experience, and it would only be until January, until we have someone else, probably, again, who's next in line is Tim, and Tim would have 1994, and then after time, Corinne, like in 1995. and that's the way I think that would give a nice, logical fair progression. If anybody gets political, chances are you won't be here in November anyway. Right? MR. BREWER-We're going with the majority of the Board, correct? MR. LAPOINT-You've got to have four to win, right? MR. BREWER-So, we could potentially be here all night'. MR. LAPOINT-No. We won't be here all night. We'll keep doing it. MRS. ROWE-Well, my question was asked only because I wanted to know if you and Craig were still interested in running again. MRS. PULVER-No. Tim is Vice Chairman, and Corinne is Secretary. MRS. ROWE-Well, originally, they expressed interest in being 10 -- ---- Chairman. MRS. TARANA-He can resign as Vice Chairman. Paul said that. MR. BREWER-I asked Paul if anybody to head an office now were elected, hypothetically, what would happen is, if the Town Board approved it, they would resign from the other position, and then we'd have to have another election for that position. MR. MACEWAN-Elect a new Vice Chairman or Secretary. MRS. PULVER-He had told me the opposite. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. So, if we go through Chairman first, and then Vice Chairman second? Secretary third? MR. MACEWAN-We're just doing Chairman. MR. RUEL-Just Chairman. MR. LAPOINT-All right. MR. BREWER-And then if something does change, Ed, at our next meeting we can do the other. MR. LAPOINT-All right. MR. BREWER-That they have no say about anyway, right, the Vice Chairman and the Secretary? MR. LAPOINT-No. MR. BREWER-So that's something we can do rather quickly. MR. RUEL-So, how does this work? I wasn't here last time. MR. BREWER-You would have to write who you want to be Chairman, in 300 words or less. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Are we ready to vote? Is that what we want to do now, or? MR. RUEL-Who's eligible to run? MR. LAPOINT-Everybody. You can put anybody's name down. MRS. TARANA-No. I am not interested in this. I mean, lets not get silly about this. I think we need nominations. I mean, why have everybody's name? MR. LAPOINT-Jim, lets say you had finished out, you didn't get Executive Director, would you have planned on staying on as Chairman, or would you have probably rotated through? MR. MARTIN-I would have worked at the will of the Board. I would have said that I was willing to stay on, but I also understand the view of wanting to rotate it through, whatever everybody felt most comfortable with. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. MR. MARTIN-I was already starting to think about it, as the Fall approached. I knew that, and it's always been a relatively big deal, any time I've been involved with it, and it's not an easy thing to do, but I would have said. I'm willing to stay on, but I would also support a rotation idea. Whatever the Board felt comfortable with. MRS. PULVER-We didn't have any Rules and Procedures until 1988. 11 '---' -- MR. BREWER-All right. So, what are we going to do, Ed? MR. LAPOINT-Okay. I'm willing to be a candidate, and I'll even nominate myself, if nobody else will. MR. MARTIN-Carol, do you recall that we needed seconds to nominations? MRS. PULVER-We did not need seconds. MRS. TARANA-I'll nominate Tim. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. There's Tim, Ed, Craig, I'll nominate you. MR. MACEWAN-Thank you. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. MR. MACEWAN-Roger, are you interested? MR. RUEL-No. MR. MACEWAN-Kathy? MRS. ROWE-No. MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Are we ready? MRS. PULVER-I'm not voting. I'm not going to be explaining the next five years in the political arena why I changed my vote. MRS. ROWE-I have a question. Did anybody realize that that school administrative building over there on Prospect, whatever, was a phase building, besides me? MR. MACEWAN-Not until they mentioned it that night. MRS. ROWE-I have one other question. Did you realize that there were no elevations there for the second phase at all, when we approved it? MR. MACEWAN-They have to come back to us anyway for second phase. MRS. ROWE-Do they? MR. MACEWAN-Yes, because that's how we passed it, on condition of that. MR. MARTIN-I think you have to try again. You have one for Craig, and one for Carol, two for Tim, and two for Ed, and one blank. MRS. PULVER-You've got to vote again. MRS. TARANA-And we could be here all night. MRS. PULVER-Well, it would just be Tim and. MR. MARTIN-Do you want to have a runoff? MR. LAPOINT-That's the way they do it in Georgia. MR. MARTIN-We have two for Tim and two for Ed. MRS. PULVER-So it's Tim and Ed. MR. RUEL-So, it's a runoff. MR. LAPOINT-Well, it's a runoff. You still can vote for whoever you want. 12 '-' .-' MR. RUEL-What happened? MRS. PULVER-It's three to three. MR. RUEL-A tie? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I think we've got to formally re-vote. MR. RUEL-How many votes did we have? MRS. PULVER-You only had six. MRS. ROWE-Not to be nasty or anything, but are we going to get our notes earlier this time? PAMELA WHITING MRS. WHITING-I only get them to you when they're ready. MR. MARTIN-No vote. It's three to three again. Would anybody like to campaign? MRS. PULVER-I can't change my vote. MRS. TARANA-I won't campaign. I think Tim, Ed didn't want it. He told us he didn't really want it. Well, how many times has he told us he didn't want it? MRS. ROWE-That was modesty, to be honest. MR. LAPOINT-That, I have absolutely changed my mind. MRS. TARANA-I think Tim has been doing it. He's been doing a fine job, not that Ed didn't do a good job, but I think Ed told us before he really was not interested. MRS. PULVER-Are you trying to get them to change their vote? MR. RUEL-She's campaigning. MRS. TARANA-He asked for a statement, and also I think you miss a lot of meetings, so somebody would have to be Vice Chairman anyway. MR. LAPOINT-This is true. I did say that I wasn't interested. That's when I felt, actively pursuing Carol as Chairman, and I did make the argument for experience and/or, not that I'm all that much more experienced, but time on the Board, and when it became clear to me that Carol was going to be a no go, then I'm definitely interested. MR. MACEWAN-Just for what it's worth, if anybody bothers reading by-laws of the Planning Board or the Commissioner's Book, nowhere in either one of those pieces of paper does it say anything with time served. It has nothing to do with seniority. MR. LAPOINT-That's only my opinion. MR. RUEL-Are we doing this again? MR. MARTIN-Yes. I think we have a Chairman. We have Tim as the Chairman, on a five one vote. MR. LAPOINT-Great. Well, congratulations, Tim. MR. MARTIN-I would recommend you hold off on re-electing a Vice Chairman until you have approval of the recommendation. MR. LAPOINT-Good point. MR. MACEWAN-Now, do we have to pass a resolution? 13 -" MR. MARTIN-Yes. You ought to get a formal resolution in the form of a recommendation. MR. BREWER-What was it you wanted to put into that, Ed? MR. LAPOINT-Do we think we need it? I guess if we're not picking Carol, we probably don't need it. MR. RUEL-I think you're safe. Just put the name in. MR. BREWER-You don't know. MR. LAPOINT-Well, lets think about this. What Tim's saying, and I don't think we need it, but some kind of tagum to the resolution that if they don't select him, then designate somebody. MR. MACEWAN-Offer a suggestion. As remote as that possibility may be, put it in there. MRS. PULVER-Have you made any enemies over Hudson Pointe? Well, you could be joining me on this side of the table. MR. BREWER-That's what I'm saying. there. We should put something in MR. LAPOINT-Okay. Do you want to do it that way? MR. BREWER-Yes. I think we should put something in there. MOTION TO SEND TIMOTHY BREWER'S NAME AS NOMINATION FOR A NEW CHAIRMAN TO THE TOWN BOARD, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by Edward LaPoint: With the stipulation that if they don't approve that nomination, that they appoint someone from this Board to act as Chairman. Duly adopted this 4th day of February, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Ruel, Mrs. Rowe, Mr. LaPoint NOES: Mrs. Tarana, Mrs. Pulver MR. BREWER-Okay. Do you want to go into the other stuff, Jim, or does everybody want to leave? MR. RUEL-Is there anything else? MRS. PULVER-I thought this was it? MR. RUEL-What's all this stuff? MR. BREWER-Well, the only reason I asked Jim to bring this stuff was because we got caught with our pants down. MR. MARTIN-The information that's been handed out is blank assessment forms to read from and also a model resolution to read from, for SEQRA. MRS. ROWE-I want to just add in here that we need to have those Staff Notes more than a day or two in advance, because I do my stuff based on the Staff Notes, and I don't have time the day before or two days before. I was doing my project reviews that afternoon before I walked in here, Tuesday night. MR. MARTIN-We will make an effort to get those to you earlier. MRS. ROWE-I have to have time to study my things and catch bases that people don't mention in their notes. MR. MARTIN-Well, we're going to develop packets for new members to 14 -./ receive. So there'll be a standardized set of information that everybody gets. MR. RUEL-A packet for what, the next meeting? MR. MARTIN-No, no, of basic information that a Planning Board member should have that you're going to use from time to time, like you get the Ordinance and things, obviously, but like the Planning Board Rules. MR. RUEL-You mean like a zoning map? MR. MARTIN-Yes, a zoning map. MR. LAPOINT-I've got one. MR. BREWER-I've got one at home. MR. MARTIN-We used to get them. I've got my copy at home. MR. RUEL-It's a good idea to get a packet together. MR. MARTIN-The only thing I can tell you about the zoning maps is that is subject to change. MR. RUEL-Do you have any idea of the year of the zoning map? MR. MARTIN-Well, the zoning map was originally put together in '88, but as petitions for general zone change come and so on and so forth, it changes, and I think Leon Steves is the surveyor for the Town, and Darleen Dougher is the Town Clerk has the official zoning maps that are up to date. MR. RUEL-Jim, when I came on board as a new member, I knew absolutely nothing about your procedure, zero. Now, in all honesty, no one assisted me in telling me, this is the way it's done, or whatever. and I would strongly recommend that if we get new members, that somebody should be appointed to kind of. MR. MARTIN-I'm going to do that, we've got two new members coming on the Zoning Board. MR. LAPOINT-In the first place, that's the way it should be. It should be trial by fire. Nobody should tell you how do it, otherwise you become just another figure piece of the bureaucracy, okay. You should come in and change things, and not do everything the way everybody's been doing it, and the way to do that is not by assuming, this is the way that has been done. MR. MARTIN-Ed, when you get a moment, I'd be interested to hear, when you can give me your observations on the Town of Rotterdam. MR. LAPOINT-Yes. They'd have to be, they're just real short things, and we'd consider them to phase in over time. MR. RUEL-What town was that? MR. LAPOINT-I've been in front of the Town of Rotterdam lately, and I just got through Tuesday night. They do things differently. MR. RUEL-We all do. MR. LAPOINT-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-One comment that I'd like to bring up, is the last two meetings we've asked for Mr. Dusek to be present, and he was at neither one of them, and we could have used him the last two meetings, especially that thing with Newell. MR. MARTIN-I think that's a request that's better coming from your 15 '-..-/ Chairman. MR. BREWER-Ed did ask for him to be there, and Ed was Acting Chairman at that meeting, the 12th. MRS. ROWE-Well, why can't we appoint our own attorney? We discussed that at one point. MR. MACEWAN-We ~ do that, and I think that's the thing we should do. MR. RUEL-He should be at every meeting. MR. MARTIN-Well, there was a time at which the Planning Board interviewed for attorneys. MRS. TARANA-Well, why can't we do that? MR. BREWER-Because the Town Board will not put the money in the budget. MR. MARTIN-They have to authorize funds to pay. MRS. TARANA-Well, how did the advisory committee get it? MR. MARTIN-Well, they must have bUdgeted some money, is the only thing I can think of. MR. BREWER-How did they arrange that, because that was a new board, and Brandt had to live with Steve Borgos' budget. MR. MARTIN-These are all, a broader issue such as that certainly should be taken by the Chairman. I mean that in all seriousness. MR. LAPOINT-Change things. That's what you've got to do. MR. MACEWAN-Let me ask a real stupid question. How much money does the Planning Board have bUdgeted to us? MR. MARTIN-You have enough to cover your salaries, basically, and that's all in one budget for the Planning Board and the Zoning Board members. and there's some miscellaneous funds if you want to go to a seminar or something like that. MR. BREWER-I thought last year we had, Carol, Wasn't there some numbers kicking around that $30,000 in the Planning Board budget, not Planning but the Planning Department, for legal fees? you were there. there was like Board, per say, MRS. PULVER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-No. There was a proposed budget for legal fees, between the two Boards. MRS. PULVER-And the new Town Board, when they came on, they said no. MR. MARTIN-We interviewed all through that fall. MRS. PULVER-Mark Schachner was going to be the attorney for the Planning Board. MR. MARTIN-That was our recommendation. MRS. PULVER-Yes, and there was supposed to be an appropriation of fees, which the old Town Board did make an appropriation, and the new Town Board said no. MR. RUEL-I think you're dreaming. Why don't we just insist that he be there. That's all. 16 -../ MR. MACEWAN-We already did, two meetings ago, we asked for him to be there. MR. BREWER-And he didn't show. MR. LAPOINT-There's a real easy way to make sure he shows up. If we don't do anything, he'll start showing up every night. MRS. PULVER-I was just going to say, the first time an applicant comes up and you have a legal question, and there's no one there, you table it. MRS. ROWE-Well, we had a legal question this last meeting. MRS. PULVER-Table it, then. You should have tabled it. MR. RUEL-But what good is that? MR. BREWER-Because then that'll put pressure from the applicants on the Town Board. MRS. PULVER-Right. The applicants will get the job done. MR. BREWER-It will be done. I feel that way. If that comes up, and we have a problem, and we've asked for him to be there and he doesn't come, then we should table it. MR. MARTIN-How does everybody feel about the format with the engineering? MR. MACEWAN-Very nice, but I'll tell you, I felt like I was under a lot of pressure with that thing with Ron Newell and his cohort there. MR. BREWER-Yes, because that application was dead wrong. MRS. ROWE-Everything was wrong with everything that was in it. The zoning that was written down in it was correct. Nothing was correct in it. MR. RUEL-Which one was that? MR. BREWER-That was the re-zoning. We just made a recommendation on it, but we shouldn't have even made a recommendation, really. MR. RUEL-That was a mess, yes, bits and pieces. MR. BREWER-They stood right there and said they didn't know what they were going to do with the land. They know what they're going to do with the land. That's not right of them not to say. They're getting it re-zoned for a reason. MRS. ROWE-Yes. They must have a reason, if they want that specific re-zoning. How come we vote on things when they don't know what they want to do with the land? Everything else would require elevations. MR. BREWER-Because we're supposed to go by the uses that are allowed in that zone. It's not our business, really, if they don't want to tell us. We have to go by what the uses are. MR. MACEWAN-It's not a site plan, either. MR. BREWER-It's not our business, really, if they don't want to tell us. MR. LAPOINT-That falls into spot zoning, if you do that kind of thing. MR. RUEL-You can't insist on knowing what he's going to do with it. 17 - MR. MACEWAN-I mean there was, like, four things on the agenda the other night that we shouldn't have even looked at, there were the two SEQRAs, there was that thing regarding Cardinale there, and we knew nothing about this new thing that the Town Board just passed about the shared driveways. MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's also in your packets. MR. MACEWAN-I know. It should have been in our packets before these guys came up in front of us last week, because we looked like idiots, when we said that we don't like the shared driveway bit. MRS. TARANA-I remember the conversation about the shared driveway. That was with a family, and they had the little grandmother living in the back and they didn't want to have to put in a road. That was why they did that, not so some guy could build three houses. MR. MARTIN-Well, what the motivation behind the change in the law was the problems that have been caused by the double the lot width requirement. MRS. TARANA-Right. MR. MARTIN-And that's what's motivated the change. MRS. TARANA-Right, and now they've made a loophole for subdividers, builders, contractors, whatever, to go in there, and not to have to put in a road that's up to standards. MR. BREWER-If he goes for that fourth lot, though, he will. MRS. TARANA-It's not four, though. MR. MACEWAN-No. It's up to six lots. MRS. TARANA-Six. MR. BREWER-It goes up to six? MR. MACEWAN-Yes. So he could put two more lots in there and still be safe by one driveway. MR. RUEL-All subdivisions go to the Planning Board? MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. RUEL-Because a lot of the work that we're doing, a lot of the applications, to me, seem like requests for variance, somewhere, somehow. It seems like it. MR. BREWER-We get them after the variance, if they get a variance. That's one thing that I would like to have on the agenda, is if there's a variance, like the Church. We didn't know they had a variance. I asked them the first thing. If they had gotten a variance, maybe we could put that on the agenda, variance granted? MR. RUEL-Yes. A lot of times we don't know. MRS. TARANA-Yes, because that was the first question we asked. MR. BREWER-Not necessarily a copy of the variance, just note on the agenda. MRS. WHITING-You know what happened with that one, that was in six or seven months ago. Usually it's like a month, you know, they're on for the variance the month before, so it's easier to recall, from my point of view, and if you'll notice now, I do cross reference variances. 18 '- '-'" MR. LAPOINT-I like getting the motion for variance in the package. That was good to know, because you had specific, rather than just put it on the agenda, you don't know what they were thinking when they granted it. MR. RUEL-And also we have to know about Warren County Board, right? MR. BREWER-Yes. MRS. ROWE-Well, that's always in your packets. MR. RUEL-And there's some cases where the Warren County Planning Board took no action and we went ahead and reviewed it anyway. MR. BREWER-If they took no action, we can still make an approval. MR. MARTIN-Right now, the law reads that anything within 500 feet of a State or County road or State or County property has to go to the County Planning Board for review, but as the law also says, or by mutual agreement between the two municipalities as to what is reviewed, and I'd like to strike an agreement with the County. I'm going to recommend this to the Town Board, that we pull some of these things out of County review that are going up there, because it's just nonsense. They're looking at docks, variances on single family homes. I mean, that's crazy. There's no regional impact there. I can see them seeing Wal-Mart and stuff like that. That's great, but for this to go up there just is a bureaucratic paper nightmare, and then we tell applicants coming in here, well you've got to go up to the County, and people don't know what this involves. They go thinking there's this big to do up there, and they come to find out their part of a blanket resolution approving three or four of these nit picking things, and then they come back all mad because you've delayed their project for three weeks, for what? MR. RUEL-Who would determine whether one should go before the Warren County Planning Board? MR. MARTIN-Well, it would be stated out in that agreement, but I'd like to see a threshold tripped, if there was a commercial project of over 10,000 square feet or something, say, then fine. MR. LAPOINT-If you'd work out those details, we'd back you on that, I think. That's true planning, if we do that, and this year it may be the only planning issue we handle all year. On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Timothy Brewer, Acting Chairman 19