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1993-04-13 SP '-- QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SPECIAL MEETING APRIL 13, 1993 INDEX Subdivision No. 8-1993 SKETCH PLAN Donald Harvey 1. THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING SPECIAL MEETING APRIL 13. 1993 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT TIMOTHY BREWER, CHAIRMAN CORINNE TARANA, SECRETARY CRAIG MACEWAN ROGER RUEL MEMBERS ABSENT CAROL PULVER EDWARD LAPOINT EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN PLANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI NEW BUSINESS: SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1993 SKETCH PLAN TYPE: UNLISTED RR-5A C.E.A. DONALD HARVEY OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE LOCATION: 2 MILES NORTH OF RT. 149 ON BAY ROAD.. STARTS AT INTERSECTION OF LOCKHART MT. RD. & EXTENDS 1.500' NORTH ON WEST SIDE OF BAY ROAD. PROPOSAL IS FOR A THREE LOT SUBDIVISION. (APA) TAX MAP NO. 25-1-8.1 LOT SIZE: 16.91 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS DONALD HARVEY, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 8-1993, Donald Harvey, Sketch Plan Stage, Meeting Date: April 13. 1993 "Pr01ect Description: The applicant is proposing to subdivide a 16.91 acre parcel into three lots. The lots will range in size from 5.0 acres to 6.2 acres. The property is located on the west side of Bay Road at the intersection of Lockhart Mt. Road and is zoned RR-5A. Lots two and three have existing dwellings on them. The applicant is proposing to construct a house on lot one. Lots two and three have on site wells and septic systems, the same is proposed for the new construction. Pro;ect Analysis: The applicant is in for sketch plan approval. The main concern with this subdivision appears to be the steep slope on lot 1. The lots meet all the area requirements for the RR-5A zone. The applicant should indicate if he is proposing any special construction measures in order to manage the steep slope. Special consideration should be given to preventing erosion during construction. Such measures might include minimizing clearing of vegetation and placement of hay bales down slope from construction." MR. HARLICKER-He does have a curb cut permit from Warren County for that driveway. MR. BREWER-When is their meeting? MR. MARTIN-I think they've already had it. wasn't it? It was ye sterday, MR. BREWER-I thought Wednesdays? MR. HARLICKER-Yes. This Wednesday. MR. BREWER-Are you going to the Warren County meeting. MR. MARTIN-This goes on to County review, also. - 1 - - MR. HARLICKER-Subdivisions do? MR. MARTIN-That's right, subdivisions don't. MR. HARLICKER-Just site plans. MR. MARTIN-I'm sorry. Subdivisions don't go. The County Highway Department looks at it. The driveway is existing there now. MR. HARVEY-The culvert is all in, the driveway is partially in. and I'm goin~ to alter it a little bit to get it down. so it isn't as steep. MR. BREWER-Okay. I was up there today. as far as the little brook on the left. far? Is that brook, I went up Does your land go that MR. HARVEY-The little brook down at the bottom of the hill? MR. BREWER-Well. I don't know if it was a brook. MR. HARVEY-Can you see the driveway? MR. BREWER-Yes. That's right where the driveway's going in? MR. HARVEY-Yes. The property goes down the hill further than that. MR. HARLICKER-The brook runs right down through here. MR. BREWER-Is it a brook. or? MR. HARLICKER-It's just drainage runoff. MR. HARVEY-It's running right now, but in the summer time it's dry. MR. BREWER-Could I ask another question? Did you buy this land cut up like this? I mean, this piece in here, is that something you sold? MR. HARVEY-No. That's something I sold to my son, or gave to him. MR. BREWER-Whatever. MR. HARVEY-It was all in one piece at one time. MR. BREWER-This piece right here. MR. HARVEY-Keenan's property? MR. BREWER-Yes, because I drove up Lockhart Mountain Road and saw his house here. and when I looked at this, I didn't know whether this house was proposed, and I drove by and I saw that it was there, and this one's there. This is the only one that you're going to build. MR. HARVEY-Right. MR. HARLICKER-Right. The other lots are already built. MR. BREWER-So there'll be no more construction? MR. HARLICKER-Right. MR. MARTIN-Actually, it would bring this situation into compliance, because right now there's two principal buildings on the one lot, and this way they'd each have their own lot. MR. BREWER-I mean, right now this is all one piece, so there's two principal buildings? - 2 - -' --- MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. BREWER-How did that ever happen? MR. MARTIN-It's just so old. MR. BREWER-It's just old. MR. HARVEY-One house is old, but the other one's only been there five years, five years last month, five years in March I moved into that. I didn't get a variance. I just got a building permit. MR. RUEL-The lot is considered a complete lot. even though it's divided by a road? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. RUEL-It is. MRS. TARANA-So, there can't be any structure on that? MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. HARVEY-Somewhere on my tax thing, in fact, I came in to talk to the Tax Assessor last week, I've got two tax statements, one is for 16.9 acres, and the other for .47. At one time the people before me that owned it sold a piece to somebody else, and then they bought it back again. I don't even know where this is, and the Assessor's Office can't really tell me where it is, but when I had it surveyed, I told them to put it all in one thing. So that .47 is included, as far as I know. is included with this, because I told the survey to do that. They've got a tax number for it, but where it shows on their location, I can't make it out whether it's my property, or whether it's Louis' across the road. MR. MARTIN-You've got the 16.9. MR. HARVEY-Sixteen point nine is the total now. MR. RUEL-I notice here, there's a note that says Lots One through Three meet or exceed the 400 foot lot width requirement. Now. I looked under 179-15 RR-5A. it says lot size width, 200. Where is the 400 coming from? MR. MARTIN-He's frontage on an arterial or collector road. He has to have double the lot width. MR. RUEL-It didn't say that here. MR. MARTIN-Well, it says it elsewhere. That's the problem with that Ordinance, there's no cross references like that. MR. RUEL-AIl right. Also, it looks like about a 100 foot slope. right, in Parcel Number One, from the line to the? MR. HARVEY-It probably is. MR. RUEL-About 100? MR. HARVEY-I would guess. I don't know. MR. RUEL-Is 1 t comparatively flat where the house is, or the proposed house? MR. HARVEY-It's comparatively flat down near the road, it flats out. and then it drops right down to the road. MR. RUEL-I see. It drops down here, again? MR. HARVEY-As you go along the road. there's probably about a 10 - 3 - "-- -- foot rise right up to the thing, and then it flats off and goes back, and then it slopes up a bit. MR. RUEL-Wooded area? MR. HARVEY-It's all wooded area. MRS. TARANA-What does New York State own this for, do you know? Do you know why New York State owns the land? MR. HARVEY-Across the road? MRS. TARANA-Yes. MR. HARVEY-I don't have any idea. MRS. TARANA-Is it in the APA? MR. MARTIN-Yes. This is all in the APA. MR. RUEL-Is Lockhart an arterial road? MR. MARTIN-No, Bay is, because he's going to have the driveway front onto Bay, or exit onto Bay. MRS. TARANA-So two and three are built on. going to be built on? It's only one that's MR. BREWER-Yes. That's the biggest of the three lots. MR. MARTIN-The reason why this meeting, to be quite honest, got scheduled so hastily is he was requesting a waiver on Sketch Plan, and I was going to grant it, but Tim saw it and thought it was better for the Board to look at it, because we've always done three lot subdivisions like that in the past, so that's why we did it this way. MR. BREWER-Now Scott just told me that APA will comment if they want to. MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. BREWER-When is that? MR. MARTIN-We send them our agendas. They'll see this agenda. They all get sent out, and we usually hear from the within a week or two. MR. BREWER-So by the time we go to final? MR. MARTIN-Yes. Definitely, you'll have it. MR. BREWER-Has anybody else got any questions? MRS. TARANA-I just want to make sure we have Scott's recommendations, review hay bales and minimize the clearing of the lots? MR. HARVEY-Down at the bottom, you won't get any great runoff. You're going up there Friday? MR. MARTIN-Yes. They're going up there this week, aren't you? When do you do your site visits? MRS. TARANA-Thursday. MR. MARTIN-Thursday. MR. HARVEY-You won't get much off of there anyway, because it flats right out on the bottom. before it drops to the road. So. where - 4 - ',--' I'm going to excavate. and where I put the driveway in, I can put something along there. I'll put up some of that screening, wherever. but it's almost flat down there anyway. MR. MARTIN-There are New York State Erosion Control Measures, there's the hay bale approach, and all that, that he can follow. I think we have a copy of those in the office. We could give those to you. MRS. TARANA-Well, I think we should put those in our recommendation. MR. MACEWAN-I agree with you, if Staff recommends it. MRS. TARANA-I would make a motion to approve. MR. MARTIN-A recommendation to move on. MOTION TO RECOMMEND THAT SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1993 SKETCH PLAN DONALD HARVEY HOVE ON TO PRELIMINARY STAGE, Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: With the understanding that we would like to have Staff Comments regarding minimizing of clearing of vegetation and placing of hay bales down slope of the construction be part of that Preliminary Stage. Duly adopted this 13th day of April, 1993, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Ruel. Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. LaPoint MR. BREWER-Okay. Do you want to discuss this. Jim? MR. MARTIN-We were talking this over. It just seems to be, a lot of things coming to light here. The first was this situation across the street with the Crossroads Park, here. They never came into compliance with their site plan. MR. BREWER-Crossroads Park? MR. MARTIN-The office park right across the street, here, where Prudential is? MR. BREWER-The drainage, you mean? MR. MARTIN-They never put in their drainage plan. didn't. They just MR. BREWER-Yes. Betty Monahan called me up two weeks ago and said, you should go over and look at that. MR. MARTIN-Yes. She called me that same day, and I did, and everything was under water, but the reason why is. or at least I'd like to give their drainage plan a shot. MR. BREWER-Can't you recall that? MR. MARTIN-Yes. Well, the site plan's a legal document. I mean. we've had the owner in, and I said, we'll work with you a little bit, but by the middle of the summer, that's got to be done, and you said you were going to do that, and you haven't. It's been two years. and the problem is that the building inspectors don't necessarily, it's the age old problem. The Planning Board will put a condition on, or a set of contingencies, and they're sometimes not followed through. You guys wait until you see the Stewarts. - 5 - --- ~/ MR. BREWER-On the Corinth Road. there's a, we approved Service Master. Last year we approved Service Master. MR. MARTIN-To remove the curb cut. MR. BREWER-To remove the curb cut. MR. MARTIN-On Corinth Road. MR. BREWER-They came in through the winter. They came in and asked to put a lean to up, or whatever you want to call it. We approved that, and we told them that they had to block that curb cut off on Corinth Road. They still have not done that. They parked there all winter long. That was the purpose of approving what we approved, and they still haven't done it, and I see it every day. MR. MARTIN-I'll tell Dave about that tomorrow. MR. MACEWAN-What can we do to get tough with these people? MR. BREWER-We can do just this. MR. MARTIN-You can take them to court. MR. BREWER-Yes. but we shouldn't have to be in a position to take people to court when they come in and ask for something and then they don't do it, and we give them approval. MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's true. Well. that's what we're doing with Stewarts. Stewarts is coming in, now, on Aviation Road, for an addition onto their eXisting building, and they've got. what appear to be. MR. HARLICKER-Probably two dozen violations. MR. MARTIN-Violations. I mean, serious violations. They've got a curb cut crossing over into neighboring property, in two places. MR. BREWER-See, what the problem is, is because somebody comes in here, and we give them approval, they think they have a right to do any damn thing they want. MR. MARTIN-Well, yes. Once they get the approval, then they don't need the Town anymore, and away they go. MR. BREWER-That's right. MR. MARTIN-And so this has meant, in light of what happened across the street here. I mean, Stewarts didn't do the ir landscaping plan, just a bunch of things. MR. RUEL-Can we go back to this? right? We have a Building Inspector, MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. RUEL-A salaried man. He gets paid for the job? MR. MARTIN-Right. MR. RUEL-What's the mechanism for conditions. etc., imposed by this Board and other Boards, to the Building Inspector? How does he get these? MR. MARTIN-They go right into the Building Permit file. resolutions of approval go right into the file. Your MR. RUEL-Well. isn't it his job to see that these things are done? Isn't that part of his job? - 6 - --" MR. MARTIN-Technically, it's not. He's a Building Inspector. MRS. TARANA-We don't have a Zoning Enfo"rcement Officer, right? MR. MARTIN-Not necessarily. but that's what this is meant to do. Now. the Planning Staff, in the case of Planning Board approvals, either he or I or both of us will go out. in the case of variances. Arlyne or myself will go out, or both of us, on the final inspection to make sure that they're in compliance with what the site plan says. MR. BREWER-And what if they're not, then they don't get their CO? MR. MARTIN-Right. They won't get an approved final inspection, and also a CO, like it says in the memo there, has to have a letter from me in the file stating that they're in compliance. MR. RUEL-You'll have to do that with every single case? MR. MARTIN-There's not that many. MR. RUEL-It's only the cases where there are conditions? MR. MARTIN-Where there subdivisions. but there subdivision process. are site are a lot plan or of things variances. already on and our MR. RUEL-And you're willing to do this, and the Staff? MR. MARTIN-Yes. It's part of our job. too. MR. BREWER-It's the only way that it can be done. MR. MACEWAN-What do you do about things like this, like the Stewarts and Service Master, that are conditions prior to this coming into effect? Is that water under the bridge, so to speak? MR. MARTIN-No. proceeding. In a case like that, you'd have to use a court MR. HARLICKER-Yes. Like, for instance. Stewarts. they're coming in for a new site plan review next week. MR. MARTIN-The girl called me yesterday. and I told her, the Board's going to see this. and they're not going to be happy about it, and we're not happy about it as Staff. MR. BREWER-Well. it's just like Raynor. We got duped by him. MR. MARTIN-I said, we're going to discuss your old site plan prior to doing any discussion of the new. MR. BREWER-Are we going to have a copy of his old site plan? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. BREWER-I don't know if we even have that now, do we? MR. MARTIN-No. You don't. but we'll get it to you. and you'll defini tely want to see that at site visit phase. Pay special attention to the western most curb cut, towards West Mountain. like. That crosses, technically, over onto the neighboring property. and then in the back there's a turn around. curb cut. They show right on their site plan, crossing into the neighboring property. MR. HARLICKER-They've got catch basins in there that were never on the original site plan. They've got an island in front for turn around that's 20 feet off the property line. where on the original si te plan, approved site plan, it was right up on the front - 1 - -' -- property line. MR. MACEWAN-Who's the engineering firm that put this together? MR. MARTIN-Well. one of them is Richard Jones. MR. HARLICKER-Richard Jones Associates, yes. MR. MARTIN-So he really, John Goralski, I mean. MR. HARLICKER-He had a field day on this. He was in. MR. MARTIN-They've got, literally. a dozen things. MR. BREWER-So. when we look at his application for something else, we should just say no. MR. MARTIN-I told, we're not even going to put it up for the Board for discussion, because we've got to talk about your old site plan. It's just horrible. MRS. TARANA-So that is one control that we have, if they come back. MR. MARTIN-And like the cases Craig cited. our only leverage there is Code Enforcement, and then court, if they don't come into compliance. MR. MACEWAN-Do we give a length of time for him to come to compliance with that, or maybe conditions? MR. BREWER-I'd like to know about that Service Master. I think we told him, his last meeting here. we told him in the spring. but spring, I mean, what spring. MR. MARTIN-Yes, well, we've got to be more careful with the resolutions, specific dates. MR. RUEL-He mentioned something he couldn't because of the ice and snow, and then we said. well, when the weather gets warmer. MR. BREWER-Now the weather's warmer. So if we could have Dave or somebody go out there. MR. RUEL-Yes, but we should have indicated some date. a firm date. MR. BREWER-We may have. didn't. I don't remember whether we did or we MR. MARTIN-I can pull the resolution. MR. RUEL-Take a look, but, you know, these things only come up when somebody observes a violation, but there probably are many others. MR. MARTIN-Well, that's what. this was meant to nip it in the bud. at the point of the CO. MR. RUEL-Well, here, yes, but I'm talking about other ones. I'm not talking about the ones associated with the Building Inspector. MRS. TARANA-How about the Sign Ordinance? Every other sign is not in compliance, in the Town. MR. MARTIN-We catch those as we see them. and when we get complaints. MR. BREWER-I don't understand how Bob Baker got his sign on Quaker Road? MR. MARTIN-We can get the files. then. If there's not a file on it, - 8 - -.-' - MR. BREWER-He got a permit. MR. MARTIN-There is no inspection process on the signs. MR. BREWER-My God. that's a terrible thing. He put on the, is it Fall Line? MR. MACEWAN-No. There used to be a realtor in there at one time. MR. BREWER-No. It's the ski shop now. MR. MARTIN-Next to Quaker Ford? MR. BREWER-Right next to us. MR. MARTIN-Right next to you. MR. BREWER-Yes. That's Fall Line, isn't it? MRS. TARANA-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-Bob Baker moved up there? MR. MARTIN-Yes. He used to be down the street. MR. BREWER-Bruce' s sign is level like this, or it was. now Bob Baker's got a sign four times the size of his. and it's like this. MR. MARTIN-I'll have to check that. MR. BREWER-It looks terrible. MR. MARTIN-Maybe he didn't get a permit. MR. BREWER-He did get a permit, because it was on our. MR. RUEL-When they make application to get a permit for a sign, do they show a picture of the sign, dimensions and everything else? MR. MARTIN-Yes, and that's another thing that's been weak. We've been trying to get, typically the applications have been pretty loosely filed. I mean. they don't show dimensions. setbacks from the road and everything. You write letters to these contractors, and we ask them to please, because they come in here all hot and bothered, the obvious thing, you know. they come in the day they want their permit, with the application, and then if you have a question about it and want to hold them up, then you're the bad guy. MR. BREWER-One other thing I wanted to bring up, if we're done with that. I talked with Jim and Mike Brandt the other day. and I said that I don't feel the applications that come in late should be put on the agenda that month. MR. MACEWAN-Well, we've already turned a couple away. MR. BREWER-Well, I would say that if they're a day late, I can understand that, but anything that comes in, I want to make a formal resolution that if anything comes in more than two, three days late, it shouldn't go on the agenda until the next month. MRS. TARANA-Isn't there a deadline when it's got to be in? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MRS. TARANA-Then why are you saying the date? MR. BREWER-Well. if a guy like Mr. Harvey comes in. and he doesn't know the exact date, that it's a Wednesday at 2 o'clock, and he comes in Thursday morning and says, gee. I've got this application - 9 - -- -- and I want to get on this month, and I can sympathize with him. He's not. he's just a lay person. He's not a professional. but if a professional comes in, they know the difference. There's no excuse for that, but I'm talking about. somebody comes in, and if he's a day late, I can understand that. and I don't have a problem with that. MR. MACEWAN-But the Pandora's Box you're opening up is that. MR. BREWER-Well, make it for everybody that. MR. MACEWAN-You can't make two sets of rules. MRS. TARANA-Yes. people. I don't think you can discriminate between MR. RUEL-You can't allow anybody to be late and say that, you know. some could be late and some can't. MRS. TARANA-And if you have a rule and you stick to it, then it doesn't put him in the position of saying, well. you're a little guy who shouldn't know anyway. So we'll give you an extra day. You either have to make the rules stringent for everybody. MR. HARLICKER-Yes. favoritism. That way nObody can accuse anybody of MR. BREWER-Then why can't make the deadline the last Friday of the month? MR. RUEL-And make no exceptions. MR. BREWER-No. I mean, you could change the deadline. MR. HARLICKER-Well, then you're still going to run into the problem, because people are still going to say. well. we didn't know what the deadline was. I don't think it's a matter of when the deadline's set. MR. MARTIN-One thing that would help about a Friday is, what happens sometimes is you have your second Planning Board meeting that Tuesday. and the next day is the deadline, sometimes. and if somebody's at Preliminary, and they want to file their final application for next month. MR. BREWER-So how would that effect the timing for you, if we moved it to Friday? MR. MARTIN-I'd have to talk to the, like Pam and things. They know, the advertising is the thing, and the Staff Review prior to the advertising. MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. MARTIN-That's where it gets a little tight. MR. BREWER-Okay. Then lets leave it like it is. I mean. we're not going to take the application past the deadline. MR. MARTIN-What we've been doing, like the Zoning Board set a policy resolution like that, and then what we did is we mailed the resolution around to all the typical people who do business with the Town, saying here's an update in policy by the Zoning Board. MR. BREWER-That means that the Staff here has to support us with that resolution, correct? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MRS. TARANA-I thought there was a resolution already on the books? - 10 - '- -.- MR. MACEWAN-There was a resolution already on the books for incomplete applications. MRS. TARANA-Okay. MR. BREWER-Any application that comes in past the deadline will not be on the agenda that month. MOTION THAT ANY APPLICATION THAT COMES IN PAST THE DEADLINE WILL NOT BE ON THE AGENDA THAT MONTH, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan: Duly adopted this 13th day of April, 1993. by the following vote: AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mrs. Tarana, Mr. Brewer NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver, Mr. LaPoint MR. MACEWAN-He just hit the nail on the head. When somebody comes in to get an application, does the application somewhere state on it when the deadlines are for late applications to be submitted? MR. MARTIN-Yes. MR. MACEWAN-So there's no excuse for it. No one has an excuse for it. MR. RUEL-I have a note of interest, if somebody wants to listen to it. There is no speed limit on Aviation Road. You can go from one end of Aviation Road, West Mountain all the way to the Quaker Road. there's no speed limit. They can't give you a ticket. and if you have an accident, you can sue the sheriff and the Town of Queensbury. MR. BREWER-Why is that? MR. RUEL-Because the speed limit has not been enforced for over seven years. MR. BREWER-The speed limit's got to be 55, then, if it's a County highway, right? MR. RUEL-I'm just telling you what was in the newspaper. MR. BREWER-Yes. I read that. MR. RUEL-You read it? MR. BREWER-How can you sue the sheriff if you get in an accident? MR. MARTIN-I think what would happen is if somebody hit you and. like, injured you or killed a member in your car or something. and wi thout a speed limit. you know. the speed was too unsafe for conditions or something like that, they could be liable, I would think. MR. RUEL-Sure. MRS. TARANA-But you know he said that. that guy said that. but I know that there are a lot of Queensbury kids that have gotten picked up right in front of the school. MR. MACEWAN-That's a zone right in there. There's a speed limit. On motion meeting was adjourned. - 11 - -- RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Timothy Brewer, Chairman "-' - 12 -