1993-09-23 SP
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 23. 1993
INDEX
SEQRA Review Randy Rivette/Mike Rivette
5.
SEQRA Review Gary R. Cardinale
5.
Subdivision No. 7-1993 Cindy Jarvis
FINAL STAGE
6.
Subdivision No. 19-1993 Hal Raven
PRELIMINARY STAGE
8.
Subdivision No. 20-1993 Dr. Koock Jung
PRELIMINARY STAGE
10.
Subdivision No. 21-1993 Garth Allen
PRELIMINARY STAGE
13.
Site Plan No. 44-93 Adirondack Coffee Service, Inc.
23.
Site Plan No. 14-90 The Great Escape Theme Park
42.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 23. 1993
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
TIMOTHY BREWER. CHAIRMAN
CORINNE TARANA. SECRETARY
CAROL PULVER
GEORGE STARK
ROGER RUEL
CRAIG MACEWAN
MEMBERS ABSENT
EDWARD LAPOINT
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
PLANNER-SCOTT HARLICKER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. BREWER-Okay. Craig, I'm going to excuse myself from the first
item that you people want to discuss.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay. Thank you. The first item on the agenda is a
discussion regarding the Hudson Point pro j ect. regarding
specifically a letter the Board received. Corinne. would you read
that letter into the minutes. please.
MRS. TARANA-Yes. This is dated August 26. 1993. Town of Queensbury
Planning Board. regarding Hudson Point Planned Unit Development.
"Dear Planning Board Members: We represent Tim Brewer. Robin
Brewer. Roland Aikens and Emily Aikens who are neighbors of the
pr~posed Hudson Point Planned Unit Development. a 163 unit
residential development in the Town of Queensbury. As you may
recall. in September 1992. your Board recommended approval of this
project. However. since that time. there have been a number of
significant changes in the project. which we believe require the
Board to re-review the project. These changes are as follows:
One. the 94 acre recreational parcel originally proposed to be
donated to the Town has been completely eliminated from the
project. Two. most of the recreational trails have also been
eliminated from the project. Three. it is our understanding that
there were no docks included in the project when the Planning Board
reviewed it. The project proposal now includes two 40 foot docks
on the Hudson River. Four. the project proposal now includes a
boat storage building a boat launch area for canoes on the Hudson
River. Five. the project also now includes a picnic shelter at the
bottom of the bluffs near the boat storage building and docks.
Six. there will be a parking lot for ten cars near the top of the
bluffs for those people using the proposed picnic and boat complex
on the River. Seven. a trail has been added along the bluffs to
provide access from the parking area to the proposed picnic and
boat complex. Eight. the primary access road for the project has
been changed from Sherman Island Road to a road through the
McDonald subdivision. also known as the Southern Exposure
subdivision. The Queensbury Highway Superintendent has apparently
not yet agreed that the proposed roadway system is adequate. Nine.
several lots on the point have been increased to three acres. and
the area covered by the conservation easements has been expanded to
include the bluffs. Ten. in February 1993. the Queensbury Town
Board issued a positive declaration. Pursuant to New York State
Environmental Quality Review Act. a Draft EIS was accepted by the
Town Board on August 23rd. 1993. No SEQRA determination of
significance had been made when the Board reviewed the project in
September 1992. We believe that these changes make the project a
different project then the one reviewed by the Board last November.
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and that this new project must be reviewed for compliance with that
part of the Queensbury Zoning Ordinance. governing your review of
Planned Unit Developments. for example. Section 179-57C(4)(a)
requires that you find that the proposal meets the intent and
objective set forth in 179-51B. Section 179-51B(2) requires that
PUD's result in more useable open space and recreation areas. This
project may no longer meet the objective for the elimination of the
94 recreational parcel. and most of the recreational trails.
Similarly. 179-51B(3) requires that PUD's have a development
pattern which preserve outstanding natural topographic. geologic
features and scenic vistas. and prevents the disruption of natural
drainage patterns. With the addition of the picnic and boating
complex at the bottom of the steep bluffs along the Hudson River.
these objectives may no longer be achieved. nor may the new project
conform to accepted principles for roadway design. land use
configurations. open space systems. and drainage systems. as
required by Section 179-57C(4) (c). For all of these reasons. we
respectfully request that the Bpard re-review the project. Thank
you. Very truly yours. Jeffrey Friedland of Miller. Mannix. and
Pratt"
MR. MACEWAN-Thank you. Jim. Paul was not able to attend tonight?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay. How does the Board fee I
matter. or passing a resolution to discuss
Attorney at the next available meeting?
about tabling
this with the
this
Town
MRS. PULVER-I have a question. Has the Town Attorney not made any
determination yet about a PUD allowed in WR-IA zone?
MR. MARTIN-I don't think he has.
MRS. PULVER-Okay. Yes. We do need the Town Attorney here.
MR. MACEWAN-When's he available?
MR. MARTIN-Tuesday. I asked him for tonight and he couldn't make
it.
MR. MACEWAN-We have a regular meeting scheduled on Tuesday?
MR. MARTIN-That's the idea.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay. Do you want to table this. how does everybody
feel. until Tuesday. or ask the applicant to come back. or what?
MRS. PULVER-Well. I think I'd like both. but I'd like to speak to
the Town Attorney first.
MR. MACEWAN-All right. Why don't we table this matter until
Tuesday. speak with him. and then if he feels that we should call
the applicant back. we'll discuss this and we'll contact the
applicant and set up an appropriate time to meet on this.
MRS. PULVER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-All right.
MRS. PULVER-I have one question. I would like the minutes to the
Town Board meetings on this. on the Hudson Point issue.
MR. MARTIN-All the minutes on this project?
MRS. PULVER-No. I think just the first two.
have the rest. just the first two.
I think I probably
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MR. MARTIN-The first two on this project?
MRS. PULVER-Yes. It would have been right after. it would have
been in September.
MR. MARTIN-After the Planning Board passed it on?
MRS. PULVER-Yes. after the Planning Board passed it on. not
anything before that. no.
MR. MACEWAN-For everybody?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MRS. TARANA-Craig. did you say that we would have the Town Attorney
present and the applicant?
MR. MACEWAN-No. just the Town Attorney. first.
MRS. TARANA-Just the Town Attorney. and then if the decision is
made to re-review. then we would request the applicant to come in?
MR. MACEWAN-That's correct.
MRS. PULVER-Well. if the Town Attorney determines that a PUD is not
allowed.
MRS. TARANA-Well. that's a whole new ball game at that point.
MRS. PULVER-Right. it's a dead issue. So. I think we need to speak
with him first. Okay. do we need a resolution to that effect. or
just asking for it is enough?
MR. MARTIN-Resolutions are always best. I would say.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MOTION ON TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 28TH THE TOWN ATTORNEY. PAUL DUSEK.
MEET WITH THE QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD TO DISCUSS THE LETTER DATED
AUGUST 26TH. 1993 BY MILLER. MANNIX. AND PRATT AND THE APPLICATION
BEFORE THE TOWN BOARD FOR A RE-ZONING ON HUDSON POINT. Introduced
by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption. seconded by Roger Ruel:
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint. Mr. Brewer
MR. BREWER-Okay. The first item. we made arrangements to have Mr.
Stimpson come in. but we got a letter stating that he couldn't come
in. and we'll have to reschedule the meeting. Would you just read
that letter in. Corinne?
MRS. TARANA-Yes. September 22.1993. Chairman of the Planning
Board Queensbury Planning Board RE: Stimpson and Eggleston at 299
Bay Road. "Gentlemen: I received a telephone call from my clients.
Mr. Thomas Stimpson and Mr. Richard Eggleston. requesting that I
appear as their legal counsel at your meeting scheduled for
Thursday evening. September 23. 1993. I do wish to appear on their
behalf. however. I am previously committed to a matter scheduled at
the same time in another town. Accordingly. I am requesting that
the matter be rescheduled at the Planning Board's convenience at a
later date and time. Please let me know if my request for
rescheduling can be favorably acted upon. Very truly yours.
Carusone and Muller Michael Muller"
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MR. BREWER-Okay. Did you have any conversation at all with him.
Jim? When does he want us to reschedule?
MR. MARTIN-I was hoping for. I can call him. I was hoping for as
early as Tuesday maybe.
MR. BREWER-Okay. How does everybody else feel about that?
MRS. PULVER-Sure.
MRS. TARANA-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Could I ask you. please. to contact Mr. Hart also.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Do we need a motion or anything? We just table it until
Tuesday.
MR. HARLICKER-I've got some additional information for you on this
project. We got a phone call from DEC today regarding any
applicable permi ts that they have to get for their ventilation
system. There are permits that they have to get. or a permit that
he has to get. but the representative from DEC said based on the
conversation he had with the applicant. the ventilation system that
he has in place on the project site fits all their requirements.
and that the permit is just more or less a formality for them.
There shouldn't be any problem with them issuing the permit.
MR. BREWER-Okay. So he has no problem operating?
MR. HARLICKER-Yes. based on the conversation that.
MR. BREWER-How can they issue a permit if they never even saw the
thing?
MR. HARLICKER-Well. they haven't yet.
MR. BREWER-I don't think it's a Town requirement.
MR. HARLICKER-No. It's a DEC requirement.
MR. MARTIN-The other thing is. too. I think this type of a
permitting process. in the earlier conversation I had. just as a
change in law. as a matter of fact. just this summer. and that's
why a lot of these types of other facilities around Town haven't
been notified yet. but they're going to be approached as well. and
over the next several months. everybody will have to come into
compliance with these permit requirements. and it appears it's
really not going to have that much of an effect on odors and things
like that.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
this?
Would somebody care to make a motion to table
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 11-93 RICHARD EGGLESTON/THOMAS
STIMPSON. Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Carol Pulver:
Tabled until next Tuesday.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark.
Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
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RESOLUTIONS:
SEQRA REVIEW: RANDY RIVETTE/MIKE RIVETTE RESOLUTION OF INTENT OF
THE PLANNING BOARD TO BE LEAD AGENCY IN THE REVIEW OF THE VARIANCE
AND SITE PLAN APPLICATION.
MRS. PULVER-I'll introduce it.
RESOLUTION OF INTENT OF PLANNING BOARD OF TOWN OF QUEENSBURY TO BE
LEAD AGENT IN THE REVIEW OF Site Plan for Randy and Mike Rivette
RESOLUTION NO.: 19 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY: Carol Pulver
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Roqer Ruel
WHEREAS. Randy & Mike Rivette have submitted an application
for a site plan in connection with a project known as or described
as construction of a 24' x 24' two story addition. and
WHEREAS. the Town of Queensbury Planning Board desires to
commence a coordinated review process as provided under the DEC
Regulations adopted in accordance with the State Environmental
Quality Review Act (SEQRA).
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Queensbury Planning Board hereby
determines that the action proposed by the applicant constitutes a
Type I action under SEQRA. and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Town of Queensbury Planning Board hereby
indicates its desire to be lead agent for the purposes of the SEQRA
review process and hereby authorizes and directs the Executive
Director to notify other involved agencies that: 1) an
application has been made by Randy & Mike Rivette for a site plan:
2) a coordinated SEQRA review is desired: 3) a lead agency for
purposes of SEQRA review must therefore be agreed to among the
involved agencies within 30 days: and 4) the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board desires to be the lead agent for purposes of SEQRA
review: and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that when notifying the other involved agencies. the
Executive Director shall also mail a letter of explanation.
together with copies of this resolution. the application. and the
EAF with Part I completed by the project sponsor. or where
appropriate. the Draft EIS.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
SEQRA REVIEW: GARY R. CARDINALE RESOLUTION OF INTENT OF THE
PLANNING BOARD TO BE LEAD AGENCY IN THE REVIEW OF THE VARIANCE
APPLICATION.
RESOLUTION OF INTENT OF THE PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWN OF
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QUEENSBURY TO BE LEAD AGENT IN THE SEQRA REVIEW OF Area Variance
for Gary Cardinale
RESOLUTION NO.: 20 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY: Carol Pulver
WHO MOVED I~S ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Roqer Ruel
WHEREAS. Gary Cardinale has submitted an application for a
variance in connection with a proj ect known as or described as
construction of a single family home. and
WHEREAS. the Town of Queensbury Planning Board desires to
commence a coordinated review process as provided under the DEC
Regulations adopted in accordance with the State Environmental
Quality Review Act (SEQRA).
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Queensbury Planning Board hereby
determines that the action proposed by the applicant constitutes a
Type I action under SEQRA. and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Town of Queensbury Planning Board hereby
indicates its desire to be lead agent for purposes of the SEQRA
review process and hereby authorizes and directs the Executive
Director to notify other involved agencies that: 1) an
application has been made by Gary Cardinale for a variance 2) a
coordinated SEQRA review is desired: 3) a lead agency for
purposes of SEQRA review must therefore be agreed to among the
involved agencies within 30 days: and 4) the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board desires to be the lead agent for purposes of SEQRA
review: and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that when notifying the other involved agencies. the
Executive Director shall also mail a letter of explanation.
together with copies of this resolution. the application. and the
EAF with Part I completed by the project sponsor. or where
appropriate. a Draft EIS.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana.
Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
OLD BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO.
JARVIS OWNER:
INTERSECTION OF
SUBDIVISION OF A
MAP NO. 121-1-57
7-1993 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED SR-IA CINDY
SAME AS ABOVE LOCATION: NORTHEAST CORNER OF
WEST MT. RD. & LUZERNE ROAD. PROPOSAL FOR A
6.78 ACRE PARCEL INTO THREE (3) LOTS. (APA) TAX
LOT SIZE: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
JEFF MARTIN. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Subdivision No. 7-1993 Final Stage. Cindy Jarvis.
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Meeting Date: September 21. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION: The
applicant received a modified preliminary approval on 8/17/93. The
modification calls for three (3) lots. thereby eliminating the need
for shared driveways. Lots one (1) and two (2) would be combined
and lots three (3) and four (4) would be combined: lot five (5)
would remain unchanged. Access to lot one (1) and lot three (3)
would be from West Mountain Road and lot two (2) will be accessed
from Luzerne Road. Lot one (1) has an existing house on it: lots
two (2) and three (3) will be vacant. PROJECT ANALYSIS: The
applicant is actually proposing two new building lots. Access to
one of these lots will be via a long private drive. This drive
will be 20 feet wide within a 40 foot clear zone and meets the Fire
Department's recommendation for emergency accessibility. During
preliminary review it was found that there was no significant
problems associated with this subdivision. RECOMMENDATION: It
appears that this proposal follows accepted planning practices and
staff can recommend approval of this subdivision."
MR. HARLICKER-There are also comments on here from Rist-Frost.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and we have a letter from Tom.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Rist-Frost. Tom Yarmowich. Town Engineer. Dated
September 21. 1993 "Rist-Frost Associates has reviewed the project
and has the following comments: 1. Minimum setback lines for all
property lines should be shown. 2. The fire and school districts
should be noted on the Plat."
MR. BREWER-Okay. and we have someone here from the applicant.
MR. JEFFREY MARTIN-Yes. Jeffrey Martin from Morse Engineering.
MR. BREWER-Does anybody have any comments at all? I don't quite
understand why this is even back? We did this once. didn't we?
MRS. PULVER-It was a five lot originally.
MR. BREWER-It was a five lot originally. and then you went to three
lots.
MR. JEFFREY MARTIN-We started with five. and we cut back to three
and came in with the modification of the Preliminary approval.
MR. BREWER-You never went to final.
MR. JEFFREY MARTIN-No. This is the next month.
MR. BREWER-Did we have these notes. Tom. before last month. that
these should have been done?
MR. YARMOWICH-No.
MR. BREWER-We didn't. All right. So these can be done before the
plat is signed. these two items that Tom has?
MR. JEFFREY MARTIN-Yes. We have no problems.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-They're just notations.
MR. BREWER-Would somebody care to make a motion?
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 7-1993 CINDY
JARVIS. Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Carol Pulver:
For the subdivision into three lots of the 6.78 acre parcel. with
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the two notes attached to the final plat.
lines for all property lines should be
school districts should be noted.
One. the minimum setback
shown. and the fire and
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September.
vote:
1993. by the following
AYES: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark.
Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
NEW BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 19-1993 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED HAL
RAVEN OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: RR-
3A/SFR-IA THE VISTAS ON WEST MT. RD. LOCATION: FROM AVIATION RD.
GO SOUTH ON WEST MT. RD. TO 1ST ROAD RIGHT OPPOSITE PINEWOOD
HOLLOW. PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE EXISTING 2 LOTS INTO 3 LOTS. TAX
MAP NO. 87-1-10.5. 10.6 LOT SIZE: 6.3 ACRES SECTION:
SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
LEON STEVES. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Subdivision No. 19-1993 Preliminary Stage. Hal
Raven. Meeting Date: September 23. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION:
The applicant is proposing to subdivide two lots into three lots.
The two lots that are to be subdivided are part of a previously
approved subdivision: that subdivision was a seven lot subdivision
known as the Berkeley Subdivision. approved on 2/6/80. The total
acres that is proposed to be resubdivided is 6.334: lot 2 will be
2.93 acres. lot 3 will be 2.12 acres and the new lot. lot 8. will
be 1.25 acres. PROJECT ANALYSIS: The property is split by two
zones. Lot 3 is within the RR-3A zone: lot 2 is within the SFR-IA
zone and lot 8 is split between the RR-3A and the SFR-1A zones.
When the subdivision was originally approved the lots met the
zoning requirements. However. the zoning has changed and lot three
is now in the RR-3A zone and has become a preexisting nonconforming
lot. Lot two is in compliance with the existing zoning
requirements. and lot eight. which is the newly created lot.
complies with the existing zoning. Even though part of lot eight
is in the RR-3A zone. most of the lot is within the SFR-1A zone.
Therefore. it was determined that it should comply with the area
requirements of the SFR-IA zone. which it does. This subdivision
will not alter the approved street layout. However. the proposed
location of houses for lots 2 and 3 will change. Access to the
proposed house location on lot 3 and lot 2 will require traversing
an intermittent stream. Any crossing of the stream should be done
so that it does not interfere with it's flow. The proposed
locations for the septic systems will also change. The original
subdivision was subject to DEC and DOH approvals. These approvals
were for a seven lot subdivision. Since it is now an 8 lot
subdivision. the original permits may have to be amended to reflect
the additional lot. The DOH and DEC are currently in receipt of
the new plans and staff is awaiting their comments." Yesterday we
got a letter from Brian Fear at the Department of Health. and they
doesn't have any problems with modified subdivision. We're still
awai ting comment from DEC. "RECOMMENDATIONS: There does not
appear to be any significant issues related to this subdivision.
Any decision regarding this subdivision should be conditioned on
meeting any comments made by DEC and the DOH."
MR. BREWER-Okay. Mr. Steves. any comments from you?
MR. STEVES-The only comment I would have is that I don't think
there's any DEC involvement. DOH. yes.
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MR. HARLICKER-Right.
MR. STEVES-But I don't know of any DEC involvement.
MR. HARLICKER-Okay.
MR. STEVES-So I doubt.
MR. HARLICKER-The original application. they had to issue a SPDES
Permit for this.
MR. STEVES-No. A SPDES is only over 1.000 gallons a day discharge.
MR. HARLICKER-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Well. we can find that out between now and final.
anyway.
MR. HARLICKER-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Anybody on the Board have comments?
MR. RUEL-In the future. if you would assign a drawing number to the
drawing. so that it could be referenced. This drawing has no
number on it. It just has a date.
MRS. PULVER-Well. this is only preliminary.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I know. but eventually.
MR. BREWER-Okay. I'll open the public hearing.
here to comment on this project?
Is there anyone
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. STEVES-There's no public comment. I don't believe any public
notification was sent out.
MRS. PULVER-It didn't?
MR. STEVES-No.
MR. BREWER-All right. So then we have to table it?
..
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Until next month?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. because we have to have proper notification time.
MR. BREWER-Okay. We have your consent to table. then?
MR. STEVES-Table.
MR. BREWER-Would somebody care to make a motion to table this?
MOTION TO TABLE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 19-1993 HAL
RAVEN. Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Carol Pulver:
Until all the neighboring property owners have been notified.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel.
Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
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ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
SUBDIVISION NO. 20-1993 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED DR.
KOOCK JUNG OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: MR-5 LOCATION: BAY RD..
NORTH OF CANTERBURY DRIVE. PROPOSAL TO SUBDIVIDE A 38. 5 ACRE
PARCEL INTO TWO (2) LOTS - ONE 36.81 AND ANOTHER 1.69 ACRES. CROSS
REFERENCE: SP 1 39-92 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING - 9-8-93 TAX MAP
NO. 60-7-5.1. 5.3. 5.4. 5.5 LOT SIZE: +38.5 ACRES SECTION:
SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
MARK LEVACK. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Subdivision No. 20-1993 Preliminary Stage. Dr.
Koock Jung. Meeting Date: September 23. 1993 "PROJECT
DESCRIPTION: The applicant is proposing a two lot subdivision of
a 38.5 acre parcel located on Bay Road. One lot will be 1.69 acres
and the other will be 36.81 acres. The larger parcel has an
apartment complex on it and the smaller parcel will have an office
on it. The property is being subdivided in order so that the
office will be located on it's own lot. Both lots will remain in
the ownership of the applicant. PROJECT ANALYSIS: The subdivision
does not involve the construction of any new streets or utilities.
The 1.69 acre lot has a Planning Board approved site plan for a
professional office: the larger lot contains an apartment complex
and has enough acreage for future further subdivision and
development. Access to both lots will be via an existing drive
that services the apartment complex. An easement will be required
to allow access across the smaller lot. This subdivision should
not impact the previously approved site plan. RECOMMENDATION:
There does not appear to be any significant problems associated
with this subdivision and staff can recommend preliminary approval
of this subdivision."
MR. HARLICKER-And there's a letter in here from Rist-Frost with
engineering comments.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Rist-Frost. Tom Yarmowich. Town Engineer. Dated
September 22. 1993 "Rist-Frost has reviewed the project and has
the following comments: 1. The zoning of the parcel and zoning
boundaries within 200 feet are not indicated. 2. An easement for
access to Lot 2 and easement for utilities serving Lot 2 is
required. 3. Minimum setback lines in accordance with zoning
should be shown for Lots 1 and 2. 4. The subdivision name on the
application is not consistent with the subdivision map title block
information. 5. The intentions for the residual 36.81 acre
largely undeveloped Lot 2 are not established."
MR. BREWER-Okay. and we have someone here representing the
applicant.
MR. LEVACK-Yes. Hi. My name is Mark Levack. I'm here as agent
for the applicant. Canterbury Woods Management Corp.
MR. BREWER-Would you care to address any of them. or all of them?
MR. LEVACK-Note Number One. "zoning of the parcel and zoning
boundaries within 200 feet are not indicated." I would refer that
to the engineer. and he could make that conditional on approval.
MR. BREWER-For final it can be done.
MR. LEVACK-Right. Yes. it can.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. LEVACK-Regarding the easement. I think that's going to be
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addressed
approval.
engineers.
identified.
well.
in deed language. and that would be upon subdivision
The setback lines have also been notified by the
that we have the east and the west setback lines
and they can add the north and south setback lines as
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. LEVACK-Regarding the
consistent. it should be
Corp.
fact that it's not. the
listed as Canterbury Woods
name's not
Management
MR. BREWER-And will be.
MR. LEVACK-And will be.
MR. MARTIN-In terms of comment two. that should be on the plat.
that easement should be shown on the plat.
MR. BREWER-I was going to suggest that afterwards.
MR. LEVACK-Item Number Five. there currently are no plans for any
additional improvement on Lot Number 2.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Does anybody on the Board have any questions?
MR. LEVACK-At this time. I'd also like to ask for final approval.
if possible. because of construction time window is really coming
to a close. and the reason why we were delayed on doing this Board
a little bit was partly due to financing in nature. and that held
us up. It also leads me to ask at this time if we can have an
extension on our site plan approval.
MR. BREWER-Does that have to be formally done. Jim. the request for
extension?
MR. MARTIN-He can ask for it in the context of the meeting.
MR. BREWER-We can undertake that. but I've got to believe that
final approval tonight is pretty much out of the question. as far
as I'm concerned.
MR. LEVACK-Not even contingent final approval?
MRS. PULVER-You have to submit all the paperwork.
MR. BREWER-You have to submit a final application.
MR. LEVACK-Okay. Well. then that's the answer to that.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. HARLICKER-Yes. and regarding their site plan approval. their
approval runs out tomorrow.
MR. BREWER-Okay. We can address that tonight. I think. without a
problem. How much of an extension do you want?
MR. LEVACK-Three months.
MR. BREW~R-Ninety days. Okay. No other comments? I'll open the
public hearing. Is there anyone here that would like to speak
about this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
- 11 -
--
MR. BREWER-We've got to do a SEQRA. Short Form.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 20-1993. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for
its adoption. seconded by Roger Ruel:
WHEREAS. there is presently before the Planning Board an
application for:
WHEREAS. this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York. this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark.
Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebody care to make a motion?
MRS. PULVER-Should we do the extension first?
MR. BREWER-Yes. two separate things.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE EXTENSION FOR SITE PLAN NO. 39-92
JUNG. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its
seconded by Roger Ruel:
DR. KOOCK
adoption.
For 90 days.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
- 12 -
'--
.
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel.
Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. Now we need a motion for the subdivision.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 20-1993 DR.
KOOCK JUNG. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption.
seconded by
WHEREAS. the Town Planning Department is in receipt of preliminary
subdivision application. file #20-1993. to subdivide a 38.5 acre
parcel into 2 lots of 1.69 acres and 36.81 acres; and
WHEREAS. the above referenced preliminary subdivision application
dated 8/25/93 consists of the following: 1. Sheet M-1.
Preliminary Subdivision Map. dated 8/25/93 2. Sheet S-l. Site
Plan. Revised 8/26/93 3. Sheet D-l. Details. undated; and
WHEREAS. the above file is supported with
documentation: 1. Staff notes. dated 9/23/93
management plan prepared by Morse Engineering.
Short Form EAF. Dated 8/25/93
the following
2. Stormwater
dated 7/92 3.
WHEREAS. a public hearing was held on 9/23/93 concerning the above
subdivision; and
WHEREAS. the proposed subdivision has been
appropriate town departments and agencies for
comment; and
submitted to
their review
the
and
WHEREAS. the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and
WHEREAS. the proposed subdivision is subject to the following
modifications and terms prior to submission of the plat in final
form:
THEREFORE. Be It Resolved. as follows:
The Town Planning Board. after considering the above. hereby
move to approve preliminary subdivision Koock Jung file #20-1993.
with the condition that Number Two of the Rist-Frost comments we
want to read. an easement for access to lot 2. an easement for
utility serving lot 2 is required to be shown on the plot. Rist-
Frost letter dated September 22. 1993. Comments One through four.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana, Mrs. Pulver.
Mr. Ruel. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
?J \ ())
~\~
./
SUBDIVISION NO. 21-1993 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE I GARTH ALLEN
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: SR-IA LOCATION: NORTHSIDE OF CRONIN
RD.. APPROXIMATELY 1200' EAST OF BAY RD./CRONIN RD. INTERSECTION.
A PROPOSED SUBDIVISION OF A 27 ACRE PARCEL INTO 91 LOTS TO ALLOW
CONSTRUCTION OF 90 TOWNHOUSES AND A COMMON AREA. CROSS REFERENCE:
SUBDIV. 12-1993 TAX MAP NO. 60-2-5. 10 LOT SIZE: +27 ACRES
SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
MARK SCHACHNER. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
- 13 -
./
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Subdivision No. 21-1993. Garth Allen Preliminary
Stage. Meeting Date: September 23. 1993 II PROJECT DESCRIPTION:
The applicant is proposing to subdivide a 27 acre parcel into 91
lots. The subdivision will be for the construction of 90
townhouses with footprint only lot and the remaining property will
be common land owned by a homeowners association. The project will
require the connection into municipal sewer and water systems.
Construction of an internal private loop road is also part of this
application. PROJECT ANALYSIS: 1. Section 179-62 B requires that
all nonpublic roads servicing multifamily proj ects have to be
designed to meet town standards. 2. Section 179-62 D requires
that all multifamily projects of 50 or more units provide a
recreation plan depicting what measures are being planned to meet
anticipated needs of the project residents and the plan shall be
approved by the Planning Board. 3. Water service and sewer
service are subject to approval by the Town Water and Wastewater
Departments. Any comments made by those departments will have to
be addressed and the required permits obtained prior to
construction. as per section 179 -6 2 C of the Zoning Code. 4.
Phasing regulations limit the number of units per phase to 35. 5.
Since residents will be utilizing the golf course. adequate
pedestrian access to the course should be provided. 6.
Substantial amounts of vegetation will be removed as a result of
this proposal. The applicant is proposing to provide limited
landscaping around the front foundations of the individual
townhouses. An overall landscaping plan for the project is a way
of mitigating the adverse effects of removing the existing trees.
7. Issuance of the necessary wetland permits should be completed
prior to the granting of final approval. 8. All engineering
comments need to be addressed to the Board's satisfaction."
MR. HARLICKER-In your packet here is a copy of DEC' s wetlands
permit. So. Number Seven has been addressed.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Tom. we have some notes from you.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Rist-Frost. Tom Yarmowich. Town Engineer. Dated
September 22. 1993 "Previously. Rist-Frost had reviewed the
project and made engineering comments regarding site development
and infrastructure under Site Plan 18-93. A freshwater wetlands
permit application 1-93 was also reviewed and there were no
engineering comments. Subdivision application 12-1993 was reviewed
as well and engineering comments were provided regarding site
development and infrastructure. Rist-Frost understands that so
far the applicant has satisfied the Planning Board on these
previous issues. Thi s review of the pro j ect is for a 90 unit
townhouse subdivision of a 27.2~ acre parcel that is part of the
overall 97.2 ~ acre site owned by Garth Allen. The enabling zoning
change of the site to SRIA by the Town Board was granted for the
concept of a clustered residential development adjoining
established golf course acti vi ties. The zoning change further
provided that the site remain largely open space by preserving the
70 acre golf course area in an undeveloped state. The townhouse
development proposed is cluster development and we have the
following comments regarding the subdivision regulations:" One. I
think. needs to be withdrawn. Mr. Martin has corrected my comment.
That applies to Halfway Brook Reservoir. "1. The cluster
development proposed encroaches on the 500 foot setback from
Halfway Brook stipulated in A183-34 D. 2. Subdivision phasing is
required. with a maximum of 35 dwelling units per phase (A183-36).
For this project it is recommended that phasing be considered
relevant to internal traffic. emergency vehicle access. utilities
and construction related impacts of ongoing site development in
phases. 3. The drawing titled "Bay Meadows Homeowner's
Association Inc.. Townhouse Layout" must be amended to include all
applicable information required by A183-9 and A183-12 of the
- 14 -
Subdivision Regulations. particularly:
- A street name
- Zoning district and zoning district boundaries within 200 feet.
- Property boundary of all Homeowners Assoc. lands and those areas
identified as such on the plat.
- Lot area tabulation
- School and fire districts
- Building and setback lines
- Statements as required by A183-12
These requirements should be fulfilled before final plat approval.
It is presumed that the plans filed under subdivision application
12-1993 with respect to drainage. SWM. roads. signage. landscaping.
grading. etc.. will be fully incorporated by a reference note added
to this plat."
MR. HARLICKER-There was also a letter that we received today from
Mark Schachner to Jim regarding this project. "Dear Jim: This is
to confirm our telephone conversation earlier this afternoon
regarding the Bay Meadows project and the issuance of requirements
of the Town Zoning Ordinance and/or Subdivision Regulations
regarding design standards for private roads and number of street
entrances. Section 179-62B(1) of the Zoning Ordinance is entitled
"Road Design" and states. 'all nonpublic roads used for vehicular
circulation in all multifamily projects shall be designed in width.
curvature. etc.. to accommodate service and emergency vehicles and
shall meet all town standards for public roads.' The preliminary
subdivision application which we submitted does show road geometry
or curvature in one corner of the subdivision which does not
conform to Town standards. Therefore. Dick Morse is revising the
geometry of that corner to comply. We will present this revision
to the Planning Board at its meeting tonight and request that it be
made part of the preliminary subdivision approval. The only other
road issue of which we are aware is not really a road design issue
at all. but instead relates to the number of street entrances to
the subdivision. We agree that the street entrance provision set
forth in Section A183-23K of the Town Subdivision Regulations does
not relate to road width. curvature. etc.. and is not a Town
standard for public road within the meaning of the Zoning
Ordinance. 179-62B (1). Therefore. Section A183-23K is a
requirement of the Subdivision Regulations only. and not of the
Zoning Ordinance. and the Planning Board has the authority to waive
strict compliance with that provision without the need for approval
of the Zoning Board of Appeals. Thank you for your assistance in
the matter. Very truly yours. Mark Schachner"
MR. BREWER-As I recall. we discussed the roads in detail when we
had this. two months ago. or a month ago. whatever it was. Was
everybody notified for this. Mr. Morse?
MR. HARLICKER-Yes. We got the cards.
DICK MORSE
MR. MORSE-I just handed the card to Jim this evening. and so I
think we're on track. I think. for the record. my name is Dick
Morse. Garth Allen is here at my right. and I think Mark is going
to join us. He thought it would be more like eight o'clock. but I
think we'll start. I won't review the project. unless anyone
wishes me to. but I'll go through the comments. if that pleases the
Board. We'll start with engineering /technical comments. The
comment number one from Tom has been withdrawn. Comment Number
Two. we do show a phase line on Sheet SP-l. but unfortunately the
first phase is 16 units. We'll have to put an additional phase
line in. a requirement. for final subdivision we will be here next
week for. if we get through tonight. which we would put another
phase line to show a phase two and three. On the drawing that Tom
alluded to. the Bay Meadows Homeowners Association. Inc.. which is
a new drawing that shows the outline of the 90 units. which will
- 15 -
actually be footprints after construction. most of the data that
he's requested shows up on Sheet SP-l. However. I will note the
items that are not on SP-l. and that is the street name that we
will provide you. The zoning district boundary lines are not
shown. The property boundaries of the Association are shown. Lot
area tabulations are noted in a permeability computation. and also
there's a generic note. because we have not physically isolated the
footprint for this specific building. We have a building that we
propose to you. Right at this point. we do believe that is a
structure that we will be using. but until that is 100 percent
firmed up. that. my problem is I don't want to declare that. and
then have to change. refile the subdivision plat. The subdivision
plat to be filed as the buildings are developed. and I believe that
is traditionally how that is done. School and fire districts are
not shown. but I do believe the Ordinance reads that school and
fire district boundaries need to be shown. and we do not have a
boundary on our property. but I will check that. and if. in fact.
that is the case. we will show the school and fire districts.
Building setbacks are shown on Sheet SP-l. and the statements are
also shown on Sheet SP-l. and I believe those statements. I looked
at that. and that's where you folks sign off. and basically we
attest to certain things.
MR. BREWER-Okay. The only thing that sticks out in my mind. that
we discussed. was sidewalks. that was unresolved. Does anybody
else remember that conversation? We talked about it. I don't
think we ever made a decision on what we were going to ask for them
to do.
MR. MORSE-We had. I know we had a discussion on it. It was our
position that we did not want to put additional maintenance on it.
but we were willing to certainly consider that. if it was the
Board's pleasure. We don't have a problem.
MR. BREWER-Well. it's a new application. so we have to bring it up
again. actually. It's a technicality. but we still have to do it.
MRS. PULVER-I don't remember anything about sidewalks.
MR. MORSE-Well. this was a conversation we had last month. and I
think by the time we got on it. you had left.
MRS. PULVER-That's right. I left. right in the middle of it.
MR. BREWER-Maybe you could just. well. I can show her. Maybe you
could show her on that map right there. Dick.
MRS. PULVER-Yes. Maybe we could just kind of discuss it. I don't
really see the purpose of having sidewalks out there. but maybe
there is one.
MR. BREWER-Well. there was conversation about the buses going there
to pick up the people.
MR. MORSE-Yes. well. we discussed bussing and decided that the
buses would probably not enter the development. but be out in
front. That lead to someone' s suggestion that we get a bus
shelter. The bus shelter's are provided by the Transit Authority.
and so we would certainly petition those. or have the homeowners
association petition for that. I don't think we want to encumber.
again. I go back to the market that we're trying to target here.
It's a blue collar golfer that uses this facility now. that's the
population. but one of the issues. of course. is that this is the
area that we've kind of penciled out and reserved for the mailbox
areas. but the Post Office will not designate that area until after
we get through this process. So we would eventually put in the
unit. a covered unit out here. So I think this is a focal point of
where activity is going to be. an area. and this is a good place
for a stop condition. intersection. I think it lends itself. So
the only thing that we were discussing was a possible sidewalk from
- 16 -
this area to here. a distance of maybe around 250 to 300 feet. So
that the people could walk from here. and get out to the road where
there might be a bus stop. I don't believe that we'll ever get a
bus to come in and circulate here. So that's my recollection of
where we stood. I don't know if we ever put it to bed. I know we
got involved in the subdivision issue. and maybe it never really
got rested. We're always trying to minimize this HO at the
Homeowners Association. So they're not burdened with additional
cost in maintenance.
MRS. PULVER-My only question is. when they put up this little hut
here. they usually put it on like a cement pad or something. don't
they. so there's something they would be. they wouldn't be standing
on the ground. They would be standing inside some. I don't really
see a reason for a sidewalk. but I'll go with the applicant and the
rest of the Board. I guess.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
Board?
Is there any other comments from anybody on the
MR. MACEWAN-No. I think I was the one who brought up the sidewalks
in previous meeting. Going throughout the whole development. I'd
be willing to compromise with the developer here. I'd be satisfied
if the sidewalks go as far as that first intersection. because
that's going to be the most heavily traveled parcel of road right
there. So that would satisfy me. if you had sidewalks just to that
intersection. and then people can walk to the curb of the road into
the building.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Roger?
MR. RUEL-Two hundred and fifty feet of sidewalk is sufficient.
MRS. PULVER-Considerable expense and considerable maintenance.
Who's going to shovel it in the winter?
MR. MORSE-Well. of course. those costs get shoved to the HOA.
MR. RUEL-Who wanted sidewalks?
MR. BREWER-We just had a discussion about it. and it came uP. and
we suggested that maybe. because of the transportation. Possibly
they're going to be retired folks. Maybe the buses would come in
through there and stop. It would accommodate a bus stoP. a
shel ter. and rather than having people walk in the road in the
winter time or whatever. it would be nice to have a sidewalk.
MR. RUEL-They're going to walk in the road anyway. on the rest of
it.
MR. BREWER-Fine. if that's how you feel. that's fine. but I'm just
telling you what we discussed.
MR. RUEL-And there's no assurance of a bus stop.
MR. BREWER-You're right. There's no assurance of anything. really.
but.
MR. RUEL-So I say. the hell with the sidewalk.
MR. BREWER-Okay. That's your opinion. Corinne?
MRS. TARANÅ-I'm in favor of the sidewalk. in that one section.
MR. BREWER-George. how do you feel about the sidewalks?
MR. STARK-As long as they have a pad for the proposed bus stop.
MRS. PULVER-If there's going to be a bus stop. We don't know.
- 17 -
-
MR. STARK-If there is a bus stop.
MR. MORSE-The pad and the bus stop are all provided by.
MRS. PULVER-Glens Falls Transit.
MR. MORSE-Yes.
MR. BREWER-So you don't care if they have a sidewalk or not?
MR. STARK-No. They have to put a pad for the mailbox at the first
interchange. but that's all.
MR. RUEL-No sidewalk.
MRS. PULVER-No sidewalk.
MR. BREWER-Well. I guess we're going to leave it up to you. If you
want to put it in. you're more than welcome to. but I guess we're
not going to ask you to. Okay. Mr. Schachner. now that you're
here. do you want to go through Scott's notes?
MR. SCHACHNER-Sure.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-We've more or less addressed Number One in the letter
that we submitted earlier today. Number Two. as far as the
recreation plan. we think the Golf Course is that. I think that
was stated. kind of. from Day One. although not exactly in those
terms. We didn't refer to them as a recreation plan. but we did
refer to them as a recreational amenity. a very significant one.
that's open to the public. and obviously also used. heavily used,
by the residents of the proposed project. Comment Three. I think.
is the same comment that's been made throughout. and I think
appropriately so. I think that those services are subject to the
approval by those Town Departments. and we've. I think. said all
along. consistently. that we would anticipate an approval being
contingent upon those approvals.
MR. MORSE-And we have received comment. on numerous occasions. from
both the water and sewer. and all those comments, to date. have
been incorporated into the plans.
MR. SCHACHNER-And also read into your minutes. I believe.
MR. BREWER-All right. So will we have a letter. at final. signing
off. or?
MR. MORSE-Yes.
I can get a letter from Tom and Mike.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MRS. TARANA-Can I go back to Two. Mark? I don't know if it's
appropriate to assume everyone living there is going to golf.
MR. SCHACHNER-In the sense of a formal requirement. I would agree
that. it's not.
MR. MARTIN-May I suggest something here. in this regard? This
project is going to bear some pretty substantial recreation fees.
as a result of just the shear number of units. Would it be
considerable to maybe use some of that money. and buy some
equipment for a common area playground or something like that. and
reduce your cost of. and then use that as a credit toward your fee.
whatever the cost of all that equipment would be?
MRS. PULVER-If they're going to be senior citizens. though. why do
they want a playground?
- 18 -
MRS. TARANA-The senior citizens could have grandchildren come. I
mean. you're not restricting this to elderly people.
MR. MARTIN-I know this is maybe a novel. might be something that
may have to be run by the Recreation Commission. but.
MR. BREWER-Jim. when you mention that. we have to think about. we
have this month an application for re-zoning right next door to
them. There's apartment buildings right across the street that are
going to be done. The golf course is nice. but if they had some
kind of a playground. I don't know if it would accommodate. other
than just their own or not. I don't know.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. That's what we were just sort of whispering
about. If I'm understanding. Jim. your suggestion would be a
dollar for dollar credit against the recreation fee.
MR. MARTIN-Right. Exactly.
MR. SCHACHNER-And Corinne's correct. that although we're targeting
principally senior citizens or relatively older home purchasers or
townhome purchasers. correct in both respects. Number One. we
don't have to. there's no requirement that you're a senior citizen
or an older person. There's no requirement that you're a golfer.
That's just. demographically. who we anticipate targeting. I'm not
sure. well. I don't think Mr. Allen much cares. in terms of the
dollars. expenditure of dollars would be the same by definition.
but I don't think we envision a public facility open to the public.
in terms of a playground and all that.
MR. MARTIN-Exactly. It's just like the pool at Regency Park
Apartments is limited only to tenants of that.
MR. SCHACHNER-Right. If you're talking about your preference to
see some type of small modest playground facility. because. as you
correctly point out. Number One. people that are grandparents have
grandchildren. and Number Two. you don't have to be a grandparent
to buy a unit. I don't think we have any problem with that.
MRS. TARANA-I think it will keep children off the golf course. as
well.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. We don't have a problem with that.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MRS. PULVER-We don't have the authority. though. to request.
MR. MARTIN-I think that request should be made of the Recreation
Commission. if they would consent to that use of the fees. I mean.
you're not talking about more than. I can't imagine. two or three
thousand dollars of that. I don't know how much.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. I think we're talking a very modest. local on
site use only playground. and I guess if you. I think it would have
to. ultimately. be a Recreation Commission. if you all feel that's
a very desirable thing. and you want to make that a condition. for
example of your approval. subject to recommendation by the
Recreation Commission. that would be okay with us. If the
Recreation Commission says no. we don't want that to happen. then
we'd have to pay the Rec Fee. We don't have a problem with that.
MR. MARTIN-Right. Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. The phasing. has already been discussed. As
far as Five. and that's the residents of the project. pedestrian
access to the golf course. we talked about it earlier today. We
had talked earlier. I think. in the project. about having some sort
of path. I don't think the plan shows it specifically. correct?
- 19 -
~~
MR. MORSE-No.
MR. SCHACHNER-If we anticipate a path. we don't have any problem
putting that on. for final. If that's. again. something you want
to put as a condition of Preliminary approval. It's not something
that the sponsor feels very strongly about. frankly. but we don't
have any problem with it. Six relates to vegetation. I kind of
think we discussed that before. and I think that comment is.
slightly reworded, I think a comment that's been made by Staff
previous I y. and basically. what is characteri zed here as the
limited landscaping we talked about before. which we characterized.
foundation planting is all that's proposed. I'm glad to keep it
that way. You'll recall. one of the specific desires here is
relatively low price range. so that the demographic group that I
previously mentioned can afford these units. and that's all that
we're proposing before. that's all that we're still proposing.
MR. MORSE-I just would like to add to that that there is still a
large amount of vegetation retained on the site that will be there
in its natural state. buffer around the southeast and northern side
of it. and the west side is going to be open.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-The other thing I want to go on the record as saying. as
Planning Staff to the applicant. I want to apologize for the manner
in which this has been reviewed. There's been some mistakes made
on behalf of our Department which have caused him delays and some
concerns unnecessarily so. and I just want that on the record. It
should have been caught earlier.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
questions?
Is there anybody on the Board that has any
MRS. PULVER-One question. I've probably already asked this. How
long do you anticipate to take to complete buildout?
GARTH ALLEN
MR. ALLEN-We talked about that earlier. Five years at the max.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Okay. I'll open the publ ic hearing.
here to speak on this?
Is there anyone
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. BREWER-Jim. we do or don't have to do a SEQRA on this? I think
it was already done.
MR. MARTIN-It was already done.
MR. SCHACHNER-The Town Board did it as part of the re-zoning.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebody care to make a motion?
MR. MARTIN-Mark. do you think you'd be willing to attend the next
meeting of the Recreation Commission to present such an idea?
Because I think that should fall between your next meeting of this
Board.
MR. MORSE-We're on Tuesday night.
MR. MARTIN-You are?
- 20 -
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. We're on the second agenda for this month.
MR. MARTIN-Well. the fees are the matter of site plan. so the fees.
MR. SCHACHNER-We're not subject to site plan approval.
MR. MARTIN-All right. Stricken.
MRS. PULVER-Okay. For final approval we want a letter from Tom
Flaherty. a letter from Mike Shaw. and you're going to address any
outstanding issues that we've already talked to tonight. make any
notations. etc., on the plat. Okay.
MR. BREWER-I think we should tell them what they are. so when they
come back. we all know that they were done. It's only fair to
everybody. The playground they were going to look into with the
Recreation Commission. and the path they were going to show.
MR. MORSE-Do you want a sketch and location for the playground?
Would you like to see it before we go to Recreation. or is it going
to be in their court?
MRS. PULVER-I think a location would probably be sufficient. and
let the Recreation Department decision.
MR. MORSE-We'll pencil in the location and just say that.
MR. MARTIN-Because this is going to be catching them totally cold.
So. they're not going to.
MRS. PULVER-Yes. but I mean. this is a Rec Department decision. not
ours.
MR. BREWER-And you're going to show the path also?
MRS. PULVER-Yes.
MR. MORSE-Yes.
MRS. PULVER-You're going to add a phase line.
MR. MORSE-Add one more phase line.
MRS. PULVER-And you're going to adhere to all the DEC.
MR. BREWER-I would like to see that in there. adhere to all the
conditions. one through twelve. that DEC has on their. I mean. you
have to adhere to them anyway.
MRS. PULVER-We just want to add that to the approval. Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 21-1993 GARTH
ALLEN. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Roger Ruel:
WHEREAS. the Town Planning Department is in receipt of preliminary
subdivision application. file # 11-1993. to subdivide a 27 acre
parcel into 91 lots to allow construction of a clustered 90 unit
townhouse development and common area; and
WHEREAS. the above referenced preliminary subdivision application
dated 5/25/93 consists of the following: 1. Townhouse Layout.
stamped 8/30/93 2. Sheet S-l. Survey & Utilities Plan. revised
6/17/93 3. Sheet SP-l. Site & Utilities Plan. revised 6/17/93
4. Sheet SP-2. Site and Utilities Plan. revised 6/17/93 5. Sheet
G-l. Grading & Drainage Plan. revised 6/29/93 6. Sheet G- 2.
Grading & Drainage Plan. dated 8/3/93 7. Sheet P-l. Roadway &
Uti I i tie s Plan. dated 4/28/93 8. Sheet P- 2. Storm Drainage
Profile. dated 4/28/93 9. Sheet D-l. Details. revised 6/28/93
10. Sheet D-2. Details. dated 4/28/93; and
- 21 -
WHEREAS. the above file is supported with the following
documentation: 1. Stormwater management plan. prepared by Morse
Engineering dated 6/93 2. Engineering comments from Rist-Frost.
dated 8/17/93. 9/22/93 3. Letter from Tom Yarmowich. Rist-Frost
Engineering. dated 6/22/93 4. Staff notes. dated 8/17/93. 9/23/93
5. Resolution of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board. dated
6/22/93. 6. Letter from Jim Martin. Executive Director. to Garth
Allen. dated 6/23/93 7. Letter from Mark Schachner. Miller.
Mannix and Pratt to Jim Martin. dated 8/23/93 8. Letter from Mark
Schachner to Planning Board. dated 6/30/93.
WHEREAS. a public hearing was held on 9/23/93 concerning the above
subdivision; and
WHEREAS. the proposed subdivision has been submitted to the
appropriate town departments and outside agencies for their review
and comment; and
WHEREAS. the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and
WHEREAS. the proposed subdivision is subject to the following
modifications and terms prior to submission of the plat in final
form;
THEREFORE. Let It Be Resolved. as follows:
The Town Planning Board. after considering the above. hereby
move to approve preliminary subdivision for Garth Allen file #21-
1993. with the addition that the DEC Permit. the special conditions
be added.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
MR. MARTIN-Could I take that a step further and ask that that be
stapled to the final plat. that permit?
MRS. PULVER-Sure.
MR. SCHACHNER-I did say in my letter that. on the
the corner of the road. that we would modify that.
to add that provision.
one curvature.
You might want
MR. MARTIN-He's talking about 100 feet back from the. it's a
perpendicular approach to the curve. 100 feet back.
MRS. PULVER-Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-I mean. it's up to you.
MR. BREWER-Why are you changing it?
MR. SCHACHNER-To comply with Town standards.
MR. MORSE-We've talked about this for months. but the direction was
that we had to comply with Town standards. that you couldn't give
us a waiver on that section. that we would have to go to the ZBA
for an area variance.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-It's a matter of the Zoning Code. not just the
Subdivision.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. HARLICKER-You might want to note the revision date in the
resolution. so the plans keep straight when you review them.
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MR. BREWER-We can note that at final. or do you want to note it
now?
MR. MORSE-Final will be appropriate.
MR. BREWER-Yes. we'll note that at Final.
MR. HARLICKER-Yes.
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel.
Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
SITE PLAN NO. 44-93 TYPE: UNLISTED ADIRONDACK COFFEE SERVICE.
INC. C/O JAMIE HAYES OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: LI-IA
LOCATION: 4 SOUTH WESTERN AVE. PROPOSAL TO CONVERT AN EXISTING
BUILDING FOR USE AS A COFFEE SHOP SEATING FOR 20 PATRONS. CROSS
REFERENCE: AV 1 67-1993 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING - 9-8-93 TAX MAP
NO. 117-11-4 LOT SIZE: 0.109 ACRES SECTION: 179-26
MICHAEL O'CONNOR. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Site Plan No. 44-93. Adirondack Coffee Service.
Meeting Date: September 23. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION: The
applicant is proposing to convert an existing building. formerly
used as a car dealership. into a coffee shop with seating for 20
patrons. The proposal involves replacement of a large area of
pavement with grass. The property is located on the northwest
corner of Western Avenue and Luzerne Road and is zoned LI-IA. The
project was granted a variance to allow no on site parking.
PROJECT ANALYSIS: In accordance with Section 179-38 A.. the
project is in compliance with the other requirements of this
chapter. including the dimensional regulations of the zoning
district in which it is to be located. In accordance with Section
179-38 B.. the project was reviewed in order to determine if it is
in harmony with the general purpose or intent of this chapter. and
it was found to be compatible with the zone in which it is to be
located and should not be a burden on supporting public services.
In accordance with Section 1 79-38C.. the proposal was reviewed
regarding its impact on the highways. The site is on the corner of
two very busy streets and a dangerous intersection. Problems will
occur if customers park on Luzerne Road. One of the conditions of
the parking variance was that no parking signs be put up along
Luzerne Road. Traffic turning right onto Luzerne Road from Western
Avenue currently cuts the corner and drives over the existing catch
basin. As this area is proposed to be grassed and landscaped.
provisions should be made to ensure that traffic makes an orderly
right turn and does not continue to cut the corner. Such
provisions might include the continuing curb around the corner and
down Luzerne Road." Another method might be to place some sort of
landscaping line of boulders or something around it. to delineate
the landscaping there and to keep cars from turning. "In
accordance with Section 179-38 D.. the project was compared to the
relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39. The project was
compared to the following standards found in Section 179-38 E. of
the Zoning Code: 1. The location. arrangement, size. design and
general site compatibility of buildings. lighting and signs: The
project involves the conversion of an existing building: no new
construction will be occurring. There does not appear to be any
lighting proposed. Signage will be subject to a separate review
and permit. The applicant should detail what exterior renovations
are contemplated so that the Board can get a feel for what the
renovated building and site will look like. 2. The adequacy and
arrangement of vehicular traffic access and circulation. including
intersections. road widths. pavement surfaces. dividers and traffic
- 23 -
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controls: No traffic access is proposed other than a 12 foot wide
service parking area with access off of Luzerne Road. This drive
is less than 50 feet from the intersection and could be a source of
concern regarding traffic safety. Traffic making a right turn from
Western onto Luzerne is another potential problem area. Traffic
currently cuts the corner when making turns. The continuation of
the curb around the corner would alleviate this problem and help
ensure safe and orderly turns. as well as protecting the proposed
grass and landscaping. 3. The location. arrangement. appearance
and sufficiency of off-street parking and loading: The applicant
received a variance to the required off street parking
requirements. Parking will be provided by 4 on street spaces along
the western side of Western Avenue. and 3 spaces on the adjacent
property to the north. This is a less than desirable situation. in
that the vehicles using the three spaces on the adjacent property
will have to back directly on to Western Avenue. It will have to
be determined how the spaces on the adjacent property will be
delineated and will they be included as part of the improved paved
area. The applicant has to provide for handicap parking. 4. The
adequacy and arrangement of pedestrian traffic access and
circulation. walkway structures. control of intersections wi th
vehicular traffic and overall pedestrian convenience: Pedestrian
access to the site from the proposed parking spaces should not be
a problem. 5. The adequacy of stormwater drainage facilities:
Any comments made by Rist-Frost will have to be addressed. 6. The
adequacy of water supply and sewage disposal facilities: The
building is currently serviced by municipal water and on-site
septic system is proposed. 7. The adequacy. type and arrangement
of trees. shrubs and other suitable plantings. landscaping and
screening constituting a visual and/ or noise buffer between the
applicant's and adjoining lands. including the maximum retention of
existing vegetation and maintenance including replacement of dead
plants; The proposed landscaping has been reviewed by the
Beautification Committee. Any comments made by them will have to
be addressed. Staff believes that some type of screening should be
in place between the adjacent residence and the project. It is not
clear if the existing stockade fence will remain. Consideration
should be given to replacing the existing fence with one that runs
the entire length of the property. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes
and other emergency zones and the provision of fire hydrants:
Emergency accessibility is not an issue. 9. The adequacy and
impact of structures. roadways and landscaping in areas with
susceptibili ty to ponding. flooding and/or erosion. Ponding,
flooding or erosion should not be a problem. Erosion control
measures should be in place during and after the removal of the
pavement until the proposed grass and landscaping is in place.
RECOMMENDATION: Providing the above issues are addressed to the
Board's satisfaction. staff can recommend approval of this
application."
MR. HARLICKER-There are comments from Rist-Frost. Tom can address
those. Also. Warren County Planning Board. It was returned. "No
action could be taken. due to the abstention of one WCPB member
resulting in a no quorum situation."
MR. BREWER-Okay. Tom. we had some notes from you?
MR. YARMOWICH-Yes.
ENGINEERING REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich. Rist-Frost. Town Engineer, September 21.
1993 "Rist-Frost has reviewed the project and has the following
engineering comments: 1. The existing building water service
should be shown on the plans. 2. The sewage disposal area does
not comply with required separation distances of 10' from property
lines and 20' from the building. 3. It is suggested that
absorption bed laterals be 33' to maintain 2' of bed peripherally
around laterals. 4. The disposal field installation notes refer
to trenches (note 3). This note is not appropriate for the system
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"--- "~
designed. 5.
indicated."
The slope of absorption bed laterals is not
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-For the purpose of your record, Mr. Brewer and Ladies
and Gentlemen, I'm Michael O'Connor from the law firm of Little and
O'Connor. representing the applicants. With us tonight Jaime Hayes
and Mickie Hayes who are the two applicants. and Tom Nace. from
Haanen Engineering. ,and Leon Steves. from Van Dusen and Steves. who
did the surveying. Most of the issues appear to be technical. So
I think it would be more appropriate if I have Tom answer those
issues. I would just simply basically say this is a very unique
si te. It's a preexisting site. It's small. I think an attempt
has been made here to do the best that we could with the site.
It's used. presently. as a nonconforming used car site. with very
little green space. very little improvement to it at all. except
for a small building. In general. to use the existing building.
and to put extensive improvements in. in the nature of landscaping.
green space. and some delineation, like a marking of parking spots.
It's a little unique in that the east line of this property is
right on the City line. So this parking that we show along Western
Avenue is. in fact. in the City of Glens Falls. and is permitted on
street parking by City Ordinance. Other than that. I'd have Jaime
maybe explain a little bit about what they're going to operate from
this site. the hours of operation. and have Tom do the comments.
MR. BREWER-I've just got a question. Does Glens Falls have to look
at this at all? I mean. it's in Queensbury. but the parking is in
Glens Falls. It's a crazy situation.
MR. O'CONNOR-That is the reason it was referred to Warren County
Planning Board. but they do not have any review because simply what
we're doing is utilizing on street parking. We're not doing any
improvements within the City. and on the Warren County referral. I
would note that it also went to Warren County Planning Board at the
time of the variance application. and at that time. they
recommended approval. I'm not sure what happened this past time.
I think they didn't have a quorum. That was the reason they took
the action.
JAIME HAYES
MR. HAYES-Basically. we're proposing to develop on the corner is a
small espresso/cappuccino shop. We're in the coffee distribution
business already. and particularly on the West Coast. and now on
the East Coast. in Boston areas. the se shops are becoming very
popular. and they're trendy. and it would compliment our business
very well. We used to do our distribution out of the old church on
Western Avenue there and we have since moved our operation. based
on jamming up traffic and stuff. down to the Big Bay Road. which
Mr. Martin can confirm. and basically we're looking to come up with
something on that property that we can pay our mortgage and make
the payments that we have to that's more attractive than a used car
dealership. We've had problems collecting rent from type of
individuals that run those businesses. and it's not a good
compliment to our business. because we have vehicles already down
there. and it would fit into our program very well. and we think it
could be a great addition to the area down there. as well as our
property. Basically. we're proposing to do a lot of visual
improvements in the building. I can pass these pictures on to the
Board members. We want to use a clear cedar siding format with
maynard green trim. and basically part and parcel of having a
successful cappuccino shop is to have a real upscale looking place.
with a lot of nice fixtures. and you're just not going to be able
to go up the middle of the road with the improvements that you make
and have an upscale type business. The more expensive coffee. it's
more of an upscale customer. and that's the look that we propose in
our things with Tom and the other people involved. We're going to
be looking for nice counter spaces. and everything else for inside.
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,,-...---
--.,/
but it's kind of a low impact thing to it.
late hours or anything like that either.
morning to early evening type of situation.
We're not proposing
It's pretty much a
That's just about it.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Thank you.
MR. NACE-Okay. Engineering and Staff Comments. I'll start with
engineering. Running quick down. the first item. the water service
is shown on the plans. We are relocating. There is an adjacent
water service to residents on Luzerne Road behind us. That water
service. for historical reasons that I don't know. but it goes
across the property in question. and we've worked with the Town and
they are going to relocate that water service out onto Luzerne
Road. The issues. Number Two. the sewage disposal. the setbacks.
we are going to be looking for a variance from the setback off of
the property line. adjacent to Western Avenue. We are not able.
just because of the site. we are not able to maintain the 10 foot
required. We have five foot. That will be. it's not a Town issue.
It's a Department of Health issue. since they will be issuing the
license. the operating license. for a restaurant facility. They
take jurisdiction over the septic design.
MR. BREWER-Does the Town Board act as the local Department of
Health for that?
MR. NACE-If it were Town jurisdictional.
MR. YARMOWICH-The Town also has jurisdiction for all on-site sewage
disposal. except for community systems. It doesn't matter whether
it's a commercial or Health Department related approval. The Town
jurisdiction piggybacks. and can. also has to be complied with.
Now. if. I believe that if the local Board of Health should. my
recommendation would be if the local Board of Health is willing to
grant a variance here. I would think the Town local Board of Health
ought to do the same. too. I agree with the applicant's engineer.
It's a constrained site. What they're proposing to do has little
likelihood of an environmental problem because of the public water
supply there. from a public health standpoint. but I do disagree.
and I feel that the Town's Ordinance is parallel with. and also
applicable. at the same time the New York State Department of
Health jurisdiction. if they need an opinion on that. you can talk
to the Town Attorney on that. if you'd like.
MR. NACE-Okay. I was under the impression that if DOH took
precedent. the Town backed off. but if we need a Town variance.
we'll get a Town variance. We'll apply for the Town variance.
MR. YARMOWICH-Yes. I don't know anything. you know. I looked at
the applicability section of the Town Ordinance. and I didn't see
anything that defers it. but.
MR. NACE-Okay. Then we will apply for both variances. then.
MR. BREWER-I'm just wondering how we can give you an approval
without a variance. or contingent upon the variance.
MR. NACE-You can make it contingent.
MR. YARMOWICH-Yes.
comes back.
You can make it contingent. and then when it
MR. BREWER-It won't come back.
MR. YARMOWICH-That's right.
building permit.
It doesn't come back.
For the
MRS. PULVER-They have to get the permit.
MR. MARTIN-The building permit will force that issue. The permit
won't be issued until that's resolved.
- 26 -
MR. NACE-The 20 foot from the building is not required because we
don't have a basement in the building. okay. Generally. Heal th
Department and the Town. I believe. does not apply that 20 foot
setback with no basement.
MR. BREWER-Is that so. Tom?
MR. YARMOWICH-The 20 foot does not.
MR. NACE-Yes. no basement. there is a basement. but it's recessed
back under the building. It's a dirt basement access for a boiler.
and it's not under that end of the building. directly.
MR. YARMOWICH-That's an interpretation you make from the separation
distance?
MR. NACE-Yes. and that's. I had Brian Fear. routinely. apply it
that way.
MR. YARMOWICH-I haven't heard that used before. I don't have an
opinion for the Planning Board at this time. but nonetheless. it's
something that the local Board of Health mayor may not need to
address at the same time.
MR. NACE-Okay. We'll lump those two items together. We'll resolve
them.
MR. O'CONNOR-The Town Board gave permission for a two foot
separation on a septic system next to a building on slab. I was
involved in that. and I think that they have the same
interpretation. follow the same interpretation that Tom is
suggesting. is that if it's not an occupied basement.
MR. NACE-Okay. Items
items we will correct.
Three. Four. and Five are drawing
We will take care of those.
detail
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. NACE-Staff Comments. Number One. I think we've already
addressed what the building is going to look like. Number Two.
there's two issues there. The service parking area to the south of
the building. it's just a service access for deliveries. small
panel trucks. It's less than 50 foot from the property line. but
from the actual travel lane that defines the intersection. it is
more than 50 feet. So I don't think that really applies. The
delineation around the corner. we will work with something there to
try to delineate that. I can't use a continuous curb because of
drainage ditches. The catch basin is back behind where the curb
line would be. We can either use a curb that's discontinuous. in
the area of the catch basin. or maybe some mounding. I'd prefer.
rather than boulders. that could be a liability issue. if somebody
ran into them. We might better use some mounding. landscape
mounding would define this a little bit better.
MR. BREWER-Would you prefer the mounding. rather than the curb?
MR. NACE-Yes. I think so. The curb is going to have to have a dip.
a break in it to allow drainage to the catch basin.
MR. BREWER-I'm just curious. Tom. how many mounds would you put in
there. for a that size. how many mounds?
MR. NACE-I' d make ita continuous mound around the corner. just
build it up a foot. All you need to do is raise it up. so that the
site line doesn't disappear between the pavement and the grass.
All you need to do is get it raised. and if we raised that whole
area it would probably be. it would still leave the catch basin
area depressed but raise the rest of it. so that it defines the
edge of pavement. Number Three. the three spaces on the adjacent.
parking spaces on the adjacent property. we recognize that they
- 27 -
ø
---'
will have to back out. however. if you'll look. the parking spaces
are 20 feet long. There's about 20 feet from the back end of the
parking space to what I call the edge of the pavement on Western
Avenue. and beyond that there's an additional. probably about five
feet of actual travel lane on t'festern Avenue. So that leaves
somewhere between 20 and 25 feet for those people to back out and
turn to head the way they want to head. and pull into traffic on
Western Avenue. and that's as much. if not more than. an actual
access lane between parking aisles in the parking lot. but it's
more than adequate space for people to back out and move into
traffic. Handicapped. we didn't actually label the handicap space.
but we will label it as the last space in parallel parking along
the sidewalk. The very southernmost parallel space.
MR. BREWER-I just was. these three parking places. I was just
wondering if they could be flipped like that. but they can't.
There's not enough room. There's only 26 feet. It's got to be 27.
MR. NACE-No. to get them at an angle? No. We looked at that. In
fact. originally we had laid the site out with angled parking. and
with angled parking you do have to end up backing back into the
travel lane. With the large amount of space available between the
actual travel lane and the edge of these parking spaces. there's
more than sufficient room for people to move. to parallel park. and
still allow traffic to get by.
MR. HARLICKER-Are you going to be doing any sort of upgrading of
that area. where those spaces are going to be?
MR. NACE-Yes. You'll see new pavement delineated there.
MR. HARLICKER-Okay.
MR. NACE-And that will be blended in with the pavement on.
MR. HARLICKER-Okay.
MR. NACE-And we will label the handicap parking lot. parking space.
It's the one furthest south. as I said. and you'll see an access
ramp up on the sidewalk there. The last comment requiring a
response is Item Seven. the fence. As I understand. part of the
fence is stockade. and there is fence all the way along that
property line. part stockade. part is chain link fence. and the
owner will be replacing the chain link portion with the stockade
fence. so that will all be stockade fence.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
questions?
Is there anybody on the Board that has any
MR. RUEL-Yes. Well. I have a question for Staff. Does the number
of parking spaces agree with the Queensbury requirement. based on
the number of seats? He mentioned something about Glens Falls.
MR. O'CONNOR-It shows the calculations right on the map.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I saw that.
MR. O'CONNOR-It shows either or. and we designed it for the higher
of the two.
MR. RUEL-Is this based on Queensbury. or does this have anything to
do with Glens Falls?
MR. NACE-No. This is based on Queensbury.
MR. RUEL-Because you have three parking spaces in Glens Falls.
right. or four?
MR. NACE-Well. okay. We applied for a
Queensbury Code says on-site parking. okay.
variance. because the
So the variance is to
- 28 -
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allow the required number of parking spaces. but to recognize the
fact that those parking spaces are actually off of the subject
property.
MR. RUEL-And what's this variance?
MR. NACE-This is the variance that we received from the ZBA.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
expect there?
My other question was. how many employees do you
MR. HAYES-Two to four.
MR. RUEL-And yet you have one parking space.
MR. HAYES-Yes. There's going to be different shifts.
MR. RUEL-You have one parking space. You have four employees.
MR. HAYES-Yes.
working.
Basically one person at a time is going to be
MR. BREWER-You're going to have four shifts.
MR. HAYES-Well. I mean. you're talking. I meant cumulatively. Four
people will cover two different shifts. six days a week.
MR. RUEL-My concern is that if you have a real ongoing business.
eventually. people will be parking in the mall parking lot across
the street. and that becomes a safety hazard with people parking
there and then crossing that very busy Western Avenue to get to
your place. That's my concern.
MR. HAYES-There's a very limited number of seats in the facility.
We don't expect to have that much traffic. We're just hoping for
consistently a little profit.
MRS. PULVER-There's only twenty seats.
MR. RUEL-Twenty seats. yes. You could have twenty cars.
MRS. PULVER-No. There's only going to be probably four tables. So
there'd be sixteen people in line.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-This is per the Code.
MR. RUEL-AII right. My other question had to do with that corner.
I see people cutting across that corner. kitty corner. right
across. and you intend to have what there. grass?
MR. BREWER-A mound.
MR. RUEL-How high?
MRS. PULVER-A landscaped mound.
MR. O'CONNOR-It would be a landscaped. this was Scott's suggestion.
that we either have a curbing or we put boulders.
MR. HARLICKER-Yes.
corners.
Something to keep people from cutting the
MR. RUEL-If you don't put anything. I know they're going to go
right across it.
MR. O'CONNOR-I think what we're going to try and do is put a
landscaped mound in there so they can't cut across it.
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<.----
MR. RUEL-You've got to make it pretty high. Two feet?
MR. NACE-Even a foot will discourage.
MR. RUEL-AII right. Good luck. That doesn't stop a four wheeler.
I'll tell you.
MR. O'CONNOR-It would then be somebody's front yard. as opposed to
a dilapidated type parking lot. which is what it appears now. That
should be some encouragement for people not to cut across. If you
take a look at the landscaping that we proposed to the
Beautification Committee. there's some extensive landscaping. That
is going to be a yard. then. and not a parking lot. Right now it
looks like a parking lot. everybody would cut across the corner of
the parking lot.
MR. RUEL-Because it's run down. that's why they cut across it?
MR. BREWER-No.
years.
People have been cutting across there for 100
MR. RUEL-It looks like a great improvement.
MR. MACEWAN-I would just like them to go over one more time this
variance that you're trying to seek for the septic. so that I
understand that a little bit better.
MR. NACE-Okay. There are two issues. and both of them are
setbacks. There's a separation required by State and Local Code of
10 feet property line from the edge of the leaching system.
There's also a required setback of 20 feet from the building to the
edge of the leaching system. okay. We're encroaching two places.
One is from the edge of the septic system to the property line at
Western Avenue. okay. The other is between the edge of the
building and the edge of the septic system. In both cases. the
reason for the Code does not really apply. The reason for the Code
between the building and the leaching system is because you don't
want any polluted groundwater to possibly get into the basement of
the building. The property setback is so that if your neighbor has
a building that's close to the property. it doesn't get into his
building. or if he has a well that's on his property. it doesn't
get into his well. So we have routinely obtained variances from
the Department of Health for those issues.
MR. MACEWAN-This is a preexisting condition as it is now.
MR. NACE-That's right. We're actually making it better. We had no
idea there was a septic tank there. We had no idea there was a
leaching system there. It's probably closer to the adjacent
property than we're proposing.
MR. MACEWAN-And what is the cellar arrangement? You said it was a
dirt?
MR. NACE-The cellar a. on that end of the building there's a
walkway that goes down into the cellar. a cellar stair that goes
down into it. dug. cellar.
MR. MACEWAN-Like a crawl space?
MR. NACE-Yes. It's between a crawl space and an acce ss for a
boiler where you can stand up. an access for a heating system.
MR. MACEWAN-Five foot. four foot?
MR. NACE-About five foot.
MR. MACEWAN-And it's like a block foundation. or something along
those lines?
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MR. NACE-Partially dug. partially blocked. partially field stone.
MR. MACEWAN-A regular Little House on the Prairie. How does Staff
feel about that? Do you have any problems with that?
MR. MARTIN-In terms of the septic?
MR. MACEWAN-Well. with the variances and the closeness that he is.
existing situation.
MR. YARMOWICH-That's up to the local Board of Health.
MR. MARTIN-We don't usually deal with those at all. That's the
local Board of Health. which is the Town Board. Often times we
don't even see them. Somebody comes in for a building permit for
a home that requires a Septic Variance. It goes to the Town Board
and it's dealt with. and then it goes back for the permit. and we
never see them.
MR. MACEWAN-Is it just a technicality that they go through to get
this?
MR. BREWER-No. It's a regular.
MR. MARTIN-There has to be reasons. such as the one's Tom stated.
if there's practical reasons like that.
MR. YARMOWICH-Private water supply proximity.
nature. local groundwater conditions. local
They all effect them to a certain degree.
preserve public health and to also preserve.
a reasonable life expectancy of the system.
things along that
drainage patterns.
The intent is to
to a certain degree.
MR. MACEWAN-I guess what I'm getting at. would this be a routine
kind of variance that the Department of Health would give. or not?
MR. YARMOWICH-Variance and routine may not go together real well.
but it does happen often. Craig.
MR. MACEWAN-That's what I'm getting at.
MR. BREWER-Is that it?
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-I've got one question. How are we going to prevent
parking on Luzerne Road? It was mentioned in the notes about may
signage. or. because there are two houses there.
MR. 0' CONNOR-We. as part of our application for the variance.
agreed to sign that. so that people would not park there. and we
agreed that we will ask the Town Board to post it completely with
Town signs for No Parking.
MR. BREWER-And that would be enforced by the Sheriff's Department.
MR. O'CONNOR-If it's posted by the Town. then it can be enforced.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. O'CONNOR-We said that it's not necessarily under our control.
We would say that we were amenable to it. as the adjoining property
owner. We will ask them to do that.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and you have asked them?
MR. O'CONNOR-No. We are waiting to get our approval. but we will
ask them.
MR. BREWER-Okay. I've got one other question. The houses that are
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here. are they in the same zone? Because I know the zone line
splits somewhere in that area. I know it's Light Industrial.
MR. 0' CONNOR-This is a Light Industrial zone. I think for that
entire block. Western to Holden is all Light Industrial.
MR. BREWER-Didn't Curtis just get some land re-zoned there?
MR. HARLICKER-They were to the north.
MR. O'CONNOR-They were to the north of Western.
MR. BREWER-I know exactly where it is. but I thought.
MR. MARTIN-They were across the street. to the west. back in there.
MR. BREWER-So there has to be no buffer provided. then. It's all
in the same zone. That's all I've got. There is a public hearing.
I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone here who would care
to speak about this?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
GENE DUCHANT
MR. DUCHANT-My name is Gene Duchant. and me and my wife own the
property right next to the Coffee Shop that's planned. I'd like to
ask one question. first. Where is the stockade fence going?
MICKIE HAYES
MR. M. HAYES-There's a partial stockade fence. You have a stockade
fence on your property line. That's a chain link fence. We
propose to have a stockade fence all along it.
MR. DUCHANT-The whole way from here?
MR. M. HAYES-The whole way. all the way back.
any way you want to.
We could adapt it
MRS. PULVER-Where are we?
MR. O'CONNOR-The question is. would we extend it all the way to the
street. We're amenable to extend it as far to the street as the
Board thinks is appropriate.
MR. MARTIN-There's Codes on this. This is a corner lot situation.
So you're deemed as having two front yards. The height of the
fence could be
MR. BREWER-Four feet.
MR. HARLICKER-Three feet.
MR. RUEL-Three feet.
MR. BREWER-I thought you changed it to four?
MR. MARTIN-Well. in this case. there's two rear yards. and there's
no side yards. according to the way the Ordinance reads. So
they're allowed a six foot fence up to the near corner their
building. and then from that point on. as of right now. it has to
be three feet in height. There's currently a change working its
way through. It should be to the Town Board the middle of next
month. that would allow you a four foot fence.
MR. 0' CONNOR-Our comment. I think. was in re sponse to Staff's
comment.
MR. MARTIN-Right. I just want them to be aware. before they. and
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then the other requirement is there has to be a 35 foot clear zone
from the edge of the corner. which I think they're all right there.
but right now it's three feet in height from the edge of the road
to the near corner of the building.
MR. BREWER-Maximum.
MR. MARTIN-Maximum.
MR. RUEL-And then six feet.
MRS. PULVER-Well. why don't you show us where you are. and what it
is that you would like.
MR. DUCHANT-Okay. They were proposing to put a fence in. all the
way to Luzerne Road. and like this gentleman over here said. the
end of the building.
MR. MARTIN-And then it has to be nothing for 20 feet back. no fence
at all for 20 feet back.
MRS. PULVER-Okay. So there wouldn't be any fence.
MR. BREWER-So there wouldn't be any fence at all then.
MR. YARMOWICH-No fence for the first 20 feet.
MR. MARTIN-For the first 20 feet. and then it can go to three feet
from there to the edge of the building. corner of the building.
Then it can go to six feet.
MR. BREWER-But he's only got 20 feet from the road. Jim. to the.
MR. RUEL-To where. the building?
MR. BREWER-Well. no. he's got a little bit more than that.
only got. like.
He's
MR. RUEL-About 10 feet.
MR. MARTIN-The service area parking is 20 feet. So. from there to
the end of the service area parking pavement. no fence. From that
point to the corner of the building. he can have three feet. and
from that point on. it can be six feet.
MR. BREWER-So probably from the corner of the building run your
fence. I mean. to make a three foot fence.
MR. MARTIN-Pretty much from the end of the service parking. it can
be six feet on.
MR. MACEWAN-They're willing to work with you.
MR. DUCHANT-Right. I have no problem.
MRS. PULVER-I'd like to know what it is that you'd like. Would you
like three foot of fence for about eight foot?
MR. DUCHANT-I would like no more than three foot.
MRS. PULVER-I mean. you want.
MR. DUCHANT-So I can see over. when I'm sitting in my car. I think
three and a half would be a little high.
MRS. PULVER-Yes.
here.
Okay.
What they're saying is there's no fence
MR. DUCHANT-There's just a chain link fence there right now.
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MRS. PULVER-Yes. but there will be none. Okay. Then there will be
three foot from here to here. Now. they don't have to have that
three foot.
MR. DUCHANT-No. That's fine with me.
MR. BREWER-They don't want that. Carol.
fence right here.
They want to start the
MRS. PULVER-He wants it.
MR. DUCHANT-No. I don't. I really don't. Right now there's just a
chain link fence there. If they put one there. that's fine with
me.
MR. NACE-Tim. why don't we. if we can. settle the issue. and just
start the fence. as suggested. at the corner of the building. and
no fencing there to the road.
MR. HARLICKER-Right.
MR. BREWER-That's fine. Tom.
MR. DUCHANT-One other argument. I don't see any measurements at
all to show the existing road on Western Avenue. Right now. I'm
pretty familiar with the area because I live there. it's three
lanes because one lane turns into Shop N' Save to slow down. and
then there's two lanes. Now. they have a nine foot parking space
here. and then no other measurements to show anything or any
distances. and I think this plan is very deceiving. I don't think
that's the kind of room that's there. I think it should definitely
be put onto print exactly. with the measurements of the road. and
lane sizes. and all that. because I think there's a serious problem
here. because when you pull up to this corner. and try to look up
this road. if there's cars parked up there. plus if you look at the
landscaping. there's a tree there. a pear tree. which is only three
and a half feet tall. but it's still something else that a driver's
not going to be able to see through to pullout. All the traffic
isn't their fault. I mean. there's Shop N' Save. but it's still
going to be a problem. I think the measurements should be put on
the print. so that everybody could see exactly what's there.
LEON STEVES
MR. STEVES-Could I make a comment to that?
MR. BREWER-Would you. please. For the record. my name is Leon
Steves. I'm your Surveyor. The map is depicted in paths. Any
dimension you wish can be obtained right off of it. It's not a
problem at all. So that it's accurately located and accurately
depicted on the map. Scale it. it's an easy scale. You can see
that with parking lot that is adjacent to it. we are at least 20
feet from the. 25 feet off the edge of the pavement. The pavement
width there shows the turning lane into Shop N' Save. It is
approximately 30 to 35 feet in width.
MR. BREWER-Where does it show it. Leon?
MR. STEVES-Right at the top.
MR. BREWER-Way up here.
MR. STEVES-Shop N' Save entrance. I mean. we go to the trouble to
locate this stuff. We also put it on the map.
MR. BREWER-So how wide is the road?
MR. STEVES-As I say. it's about 30 to 35 feet. to the pavement
portion.
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MR. RUEL-AII three lanes?
MR. STEVES-Yes. It narrows down after that lane. after that turn
in to the Shop N' Save. it narrows down.
MR. O'CONNOR-Shop N' Save took part of their frontage and put a
turn lane in on their side of the road. It did not minimize the
actual travel portion of Western Avenue. when they put that turn
lane in.
MR. BREWER-So actually what you're going to have. if there's four
cars parked there. you're going to have a turn lane and two lanes.
Are you still going to have room for cars to park there?
MR. STEVES-Just as depicted on the plans right here now. You have
the four parking spaces shown. Adjacent to that. you'd have four
parallel parking spaces where you pull in and out of those. without
interfering with the traffic lane.
MR. O'CONNOR-If you just talk about the four parking spots right
here. there's approximately 10 to 12 feet between the parking spots
and the beginning of the pavement on Western Avenue. and then
there's about four to five feet. once you begin that pavement.
before you get to the travel Iane. Then there are two travel
lanes. and then on the easterly side of Western Avenue. there's the
turn lane that goes into Shop N' Save.
MR. STEVES-Their catchbasin is also shown here.
MR. O'CONNOR-This is an actual depiction, the actual beginning of
the pavement.
MR. BREWER-Does that answer your question?
MR. DUCHANT-I would still like to see a measurement put on there
for everybody to see. If you feel you don't need to look at it.
MR. MACEWAN-Is your concern that that pear tree is going to
obstruct views there coming to that intersection?
MR. DUCHANT-Definitely.
MR. MACEWAN-I think I'd disagree with you. It looks like it's
going to be well set enough back that it isn't going to be.
MR. RUEL-This is zoned commercial. isn't it?
MRS. PULVER-Light industrial.
MR. RUEL-Scott. what does the Ordinance state. as far as the
clearance on a corner?
MR. HARLICKER-You need a 35 foot.
MR. RUEL-Thirty-five?
MR. MARTIN-A thirty-five foot clear zone from the corner in each
direction.
MR. RUEL-Thirty-five each way. and then clear across. right?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Right. No obstructions.
MR. MACEWAN-You're only concern is that tree. as far as that
intersection?
MR. DUCHANT-The cars parking right there are definitely a problem.
MR. HARLICKER-Well. when you're going to be making that turn there.
you're going to be turning up. almost to where the catch basin is.
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I mean. that's where the corner's going to be delineated.
CHRISTINE DUCHANT
MRS. DUCHANT-Christine Duchant. I live right next door to the
property that they're talking about.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Lets finish it with his comments. and then we'll
go right to your comments.
MR. DUCHANT-And like the Board was saying earlier. about people
parking in Shop N' Save and walking across. and there's no
crosswalks there. That's not their problem. but there's no
crosswalks there. I walked across the street to go to Shop N'
Save. I'm sure my other neighbor does. too. It's dangerous.
There's a stop sign there. and people don't even stop at the stop
sign. really. to tell you the truth. and with more cars. and the
landscaping. it would look nice. Maybe they should think about
putting some smaller things in the front. to alleviate blocking
anybody's view. because as bad as it is right now. I mean. I don't
have a problem with the business. It's going to look nice. It's
just the parking problems. I mean. they're saying 20 people.
There's definitely not going to be 20 cars. Now. if he says he
doesn't plan on having that many cars. well. he's going to go out
of business. because you'd need them. So I don't know what his
plans are. but to just have seven spaces. and four of them are on
Western Avenue. I mean. they're going to park in Shop N' Save. for
sure. and that's another concern. There's a lot of questions about
this project. and I think they should definitely be resolved before
they start putting money into it. That's all I have to say.
MRS. DUCHANT-The only thing I'm really concerned with is like you
said. what is going to prevent these customers from parking in the
two houses on Luzerne Road? Somebody pulls up quick. what's going
to stop them from pulling in front of my driveway and stopping when
I have to get out for work in the morning. my husband has to get
out for work in the morning? What is my recourse going to be? If
it's just a sign that they put up. like they say. if the Sheriff's
Department doesn't. if it's not done by the Town. then it's not
legally enforced. I would just like to see it definitely legally
enforced before the coffee shop goes uP. so that I have a recourse.
so that if I have to get out of my driveway in the morning. I can
get out of my driveway.
MRS. PULVER-Doesn't the Town have an Ordinance. something in the
Zoning Ordinance that we have no parking on our streets?
MR. MARTIN-It's not in the Zoning. but it is a matter of Town Board
decision. They authorize signage.
MR. BREWER-Well. they said if they got their approval they would be
more than happy to ask the Town Board for the signs. and I'm going
to ask that that be put into our resolution so that it is done.
MR. DUCHANT-If we're not there. and somebody parks in front of our
mailbox they're not going to deliver it. We're not going to get
our mail.
MRS. PULVER-Well. it will be illegal to do that.
MR. DUCHANT-What are you going to do? I think they should just
have other plans for parking their vehicles. and to maybe think
about not putting them on the road. or if they have to. as a last
resort. they'd still need more spaces. and definitely. the service
parking in the front. I don't know if it's going to make somebody
else park there also. and then you're going to have parking all
over the place. but they should keep off of Luzerne Road as much as
they possibly can. to keep the out of the front of our houses.
MR. BREWER-I agree with you.
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MRS. TARANA-What will the signage say. that you're going to
request? From this point forward. you know that sign that says. no
parking beyond this point. or something? Could that be put just
prior to their property, something to that effect?
MR. O'CONNOR-We would have no objection to that. I was thinking
the only signage that we're entitled to put up would be signage
that would be on our property. and that would effect our plan.
They certainly can have no parking signs on their property.
MR. BREWER-Leon. do you know how far it is from the corner of
Western to the first corner?
MRS. DUCHANT-The corner of Western to our fence line.
MR. RUEL-About what. 300 feet?
MR. DUCHANT-From corner to corner you're talking about.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Make that a no parking zone.
MR. O'CONNOR-I'm not trying to side track the comments that are
being made. but this is a lot of the discussion that we had before
the ZBA. as to why. when we went to the ZBA. we proposed two
parking spots along Luzerne Road. We amended the application. or
they said that they would not approve the variances with that
parking. because they did not want to cause problems for neighbors.
with people parking there and then being encouraged to park further
to the west on Luzerne Road. We're going back to rehash a lot of
that same discussion that we had. What we said is that we would go
to the Town Board and we would petition the Town Board to make that
a no parking area on that side of Luzerne Road. in front of our
property. and the Town Board on its own motion. or if the neighbors
come with us at the same time. they can petition that the property
in front of their house also be made no parking. and maybe all the
way to Holden Avenue. We did this with Glen Lake Road. from
Sullivan Drive back to Ash Drive.
MR. BREWER-I think that would be the best thing. if they went right
from the corner all the way up to the next corner.
MR. O'CONNOR-We're willing to do that. We don't necessarily have
control over the Town Board.
MR. BREWER-No. I understand that. I think stopping halfway
between those two would be useless. because I think there's a
distance. every so many feet. if there's going to be no parking.
they have to put those signs.
MR. O'CONNOR-We're very agreeable to do that. I think there's a
separate Ordinance. al so. though. one. they cannot park on the
pavement. and as you go further. I don't know. with your mailbox
out there and everything else. whether or not there's actually
space to park there. without being on the pavement.
MRS. DUCHANT-You can just about park there.
MR. DUCHANT-People do it.
MRS. DUCHANT-They used to do it on the used car dealer all the
time. They used to pull right up to our driveway and block the
driveway. and we'd have to have ,them move to get in our driveway.
It wasn't a real big deal. but I'm just afraid with the coffee
shop. without any signs or anything. it's going to be a real busy.
MR. BREWER-We'll ask for signs.
MR. RUEL-You'll also have to accept the fact that you can't park in
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front of your own house.
MRS. DUCHANT-Right.
MR. DUCHANT-We have a pretty wide driveway. I was wondering. the
sidewalk in front?
MR. O'CONNOR-Part of that business was to. we had a sidewalk along
there. and the discussion with the ZBA was to just continue the
sidewalks back to the point where our building was. and along here.
so that we would encourage people to come up and park next to the
curb that we've created. If we put a parking spot in there that
looks like a parking spot. if we put a sidewalk in there that looks
I ike a parking spot. I thought it was a good idea to have the
sidewalks go all the way to the corner and then go west on Luzerne
Road. and the discussion was that we would be encouraging people to
do what we're trying not to encourage them to do. so Tom amended
the plan.
MRS. DUCHANT-What did we decide on the fence?
MR. DUCHANT-They're going to stop the fence.
MRS. DUCHANT-Right. but the fence is going to be sort of higher
between. so we don't have to look at it?
MR. BREWER-Six feet.
MR. O'CONNOR-As I understand the fence resolution. we will go from
the southerly corner of our building. back to our property line.
Daggett's main building. So we will go the whole. we will go from
here all the way back. with one fence that is six feet high. if
that's permitted.
MR. BREWER-It is. from the corner of the building all the way back
it is.
MRS. WORTH
MRS. WORTH-I'm Mrs. Worth. I live right next door to Chris. I
have no problem with the coffee shop. but right now it takes us 10
minutes to get out of the driveway. to back out. even to go
forward. They come around that corner. and you think you're safe.
and you've got to pull right back in. and if they park on that
Luzerne Road. there's no way in the world you're going to get out
of there. That's a very. very dangerous intersection. and if they
are allowed to park on Western Avenue. and they go to make a left
turn. there's no way. You're going to have to get out in the
middle of the road. even with the car dealer that was there. you'd
have to get right out in the middle of the road before you could
see. and Shop N' Save wasn't even there yet. The parking is our
main concern. If they could post signs.
MRS. TARANA-There is 35 feet from the corner to the parking. is
that right?
MR. BREWER-To the sidewalk.
MR. NACE-Your question was about the parking and where it starts.
and whether or not it's going to block the view. We have followed.
in fact. more than followed. both DOT recommendations and the City
recommendations. The City. because this is a major intersection.
the City requires parking to start 50 feet back from the travel
lane. and we have done that. from the adjacent travel lane. The
DOT regulations will let you come closer. and in fact even with the
cars right out to the edge of the travel lane on Western Avenue.
the parked cars. the DOT typically looks at a nine to twelve foot
parking width right off the travel lane. and we're set back from
the travel lane an additional. I think it's about 10 or 11 feet at
a minimum. and that gives much better site distance from a stopped
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car here. even though there's not a stop bar. a theoretical stop
bar on Luzerne. is more than adequate. I think. historically. if
you remember back to when this was used as a used car lot. these
cars were parked much closer out to Western Avenue then what our
parking lanes are going to be. The other issue of traffic coming
around this corner. we're going to actually help to make that a
little safer. We're going to define that corner a little better so
they don't cut across it at a higher speed. and make them slow down
to take a little sharper corner.
MRS. WORTH-I'd like to ask one question. Mr. 0' Connor has said
that we would have to petition the Town to put signs for the no
parking. They're creating the problem. why should we have to
petition for it?
MR. MACEWAN-They can only request petition. correct me if I'm
wrong. here. for their property alone. For your property. they
can't petition the Town to do it, but I think we can do a
resolution requesting the Town to do it. so we can take care of it
here.
MR. O'CONNOR-I can answer that part. I can ask the Town to go from
Western Avenue to Holden Avenue. They are not going to pay an
awful lot of attention to me beyond our property line. unless those
people beyond our property line also make an appearance. and make
their desires known to the Town Board.
MR. BREWER-I think. like Craig said. we can also ask them with a
resolution.
MR. MACEWAN-We'll put a resolution to the Town Board requesting
them to do it.
MRS. WORTH-Because even if you have signs there. I mean. you go to
Shop N' Save and they've got places for people. you know. and
they'll park there.
MR. MARTIN-I think if the residents go on record. on this public
record of this Board. it's going to have essentially the same
weight as if they came before the Town Board and put it on that
record.
MR. O'CONNOR-I would be willing to ask the Town Board to do the
whole street from Western Avenue to Holden Avenue. on the west
side.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
Thank you.
MR. MACEWAN-We'll put our resolution together likewise. okay.
MRS. WORTH-Yes. See our concern is. I have to get out in the
morning. so does Chris. and another problem is the winter time.
with the snow. if we can't get in the driveway. I'm hung up right
in the middle of Luzerne Road. There's not going to be anywhere to
go.
MR. BREWER-We will ask the Town Board to provide signs from.
MRS. WORTH-Like I say. it would make it look very nice. I agree.
but parking would be very. very serious for us. As for the coffee
shop i tsel f. we don't have a problem wi th it. as long as the
septics. I know the septic system that's there now is not working.
and we don't want it backing up into our yards.
MR. BREWER-Right, and I don't believe they do either.
MR. DUCHANT-I would say to have the no parking go to the other side
of Mrs. Worth's house. people on the corner have corner lots also.
and it's all pavement. and that's their parking.
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MR. BREWER-Is it there property or the Town's property?
MR. DUCHANT-It's their property.
MR. BREWER-They can park there if it's their property.
MR. DUCHANT-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
public hearing.
Is there anyone else?
Okay.
I'll close the
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. BREWER-Do we have to do a Short Form on this?
MR. HARLICKER-Yes.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 44-93. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its
adoption. seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS. there is presently before the Planning Board an
application for:
WHEREAS. this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental effect as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York. this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs.
Hr. Stark.
Tarana. Mrs.
Mr. Brewer
Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan.
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would anybody care to make a motion?
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MRS. PULVER-I had the continuous landscape. mounding around the
catchbasin on Luzerne Road. comments from Rist-Frost letter to be
addressed before a building permit may be issued. okay. and what do
we want to say about this parking issue?
MR. BREWER-The applicant's going to ask the Town Board to post no
parking signs. but we're going to also do that with a resolution of
our own.
MR. RUEL-If the applicant does it. why do we have to do it?
MR. BREWER-We don't have to do it. I just think we'd be better off
maybe asking them also.
MR. RUEL-If the applicant can do it in conj unction with the
neighbors.
MR. MACEWAN-We should do it. Roger.
MRS. PULVER-All right.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 44-93 ADIRONDACK COFFEE SERVICE.
INC.. Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Craig MacEwan:
WHEREAS. the Town Planning Board is in receipt of site plan
application file #44-93 to convert an existing building into a
coffee shop with seating for 20 people: and
WHEREAS. the above referenced site
consists of the following: 1. Sheet
2. Sheet D1 details. dated 8/23/93
8/23/93; and
plan application undated
Cl site plan. dated 5/20/93
3. Landscape plan. dated
WHEREAS. the above fi Ie is supported with the following
documentation: 1. engineering comments. dated 2. staff notes.
dated 9/23/93 3. Beautification Committee comments. dated
7/12/93: and 4. Short EAF. dated 8/25/93 5. Stormwater
Management Report. prepared by Haanen Engineering. dated 8/93
WHEREAS. a public hearing was held on 9/23/93 concerning the above
project: and
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements of
Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning); and
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has
factors found in Section 179-39
Queensbury (Zoning).
considered the
of the Code of
environmental
the Town of
WHEREAS. the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered; and
THEREFORE. Let It Be Resolved. as follows:
1. the Town Planning Board. after considering the above. hereby
move to approve site plan #44-93 2. the Zoning Administrator is
hereby authorized to sign the above referenced plan 3. the
applicant shall present the above referenced site plan to the
Zoning Administrator for his signature within 30 days of the date
of this resolution. with the addition. continuous mounding
landscape around the catch basin on Luzerne Road. the comments from
Rist-Frost. dated 9/21/93 be addressed before building permit be
issued. The applicant requests no parking signage from the
Queensbury Town Board. a six foot stockade fence. from the south
corner of their building. to what would be the northwest corner of
the property line.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
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--,.,.,.
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark.
Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
MR. MARTIN-The other thing I want to inform the applicant is that
the Certificate of Occupancy of the building be contingent upon all
landscaping and all drainage being installed as per the plan.
You're hearing it tonight. face to face. so it's not a surprise
when I come there to visit this.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and would somebody care to make the resolution
asking the Town Board.
MOTION TO THE TOWN BOARD REQUESTING THAT THEY PUT UP NO PARKING
SIGNAGE FROM THE INTERSECTION OF WESTERN AND LUZERNE TO THE
INTERSECTION OF LUZERNE AND HOLDEN. ON THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THE
ROAD. Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption.
seconded by Carol Pulver:
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan.
Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 14-90 TYPE: UNLISTED THE GREAT ESCAPE THEME PARK
OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: RC-15 LOCATION: US/NY RT. 9
PROPOSAL TO ERECT A ROLLER COASTER ON THE FORMER CAMPGROUND SITE AT
THE GREAT ESCAPE SEQRA REVIEW: CONSIDERATION AND PREPARATION OF
A STATEMENT OF FINDINGS FOR A SITE PLAN APPLICATION TO CONSTRUCT A
ROLLER COASTER. APPLICATION ALSO CONTAINS A REVISION WHICH
INVOLVES RELOCATION OF THE ACCESS RAMP TO THE COASTER. WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING - 9-8-93 TAX MAP NO. 36-2-3.1 LOT SIZE: 2.2
ACRES SECTION: 179-21
JOHN LEMERY. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
MRS. TARANA-The public hearing was left open from February 27.
1990.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and we have a few letters I'd like to have read
into the record.
MR. MARTIN-Well. I think you should save those for the public
hearing. You've got to deal with the SEQRA end of it. first. and
then you take up the public hearing again. depending on the outcome
of that.
MRS. TARANA-The Findings Statement.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I was going to. do you want me to read that into
the record. Tim?
MR. BREWER-Yes. would you please.
MR. MARTIN-All right. We have a Findings Statement "Pursuant to
Article 8 (Statement Environmental Quality Review Act - SEQR) of
the Environmental Conservation Law and 6 NYCRR Part 617. the
Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury. as SEQR lead agency.
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makes the following findings. Name of Action: Roller Coaster at
the Great Escape Theme Park (Story town U.S.A.. Inc.) NYSDEC SEQR
Project Identification No. P5-523400-00010 Town of Queensbury
Planning Board Site Plan Review 14-90 Description of Action:
Construction and operation of the "Comet" roller coaster and
associated terminal service building within the existing 238 acre
site of the Great Escape Theme Park (contiguous acreage east of New
York State Route 9). Location: (Include street address and name
of the municipali ty and county.) Wi thin existing si te of Great
Escape Theme Park. east of U.S. Route 9. Queensbury (T). Warren
(Co. ). approximately four miles south of Lake George Village.
Agency Jurisdiction(s): Town of Queensbury Planning Board
(discretionary approval - site plan review): Town of Queensbury
(ministerial approval - building permit): New York State Department
of Labor (ministerial registration - amusement park ride). Date
Final EIS Filed: September 2. 1993 Facts and Conclusions in the
EIS Relied Upon to Support the Decision: (Attach additional
sheets. as necessary) 1. The new roller coaster will not have
significant adverse visual impacts on surrounding properties or the
community in general. As documented by visual simulations in the
Draft EIS. the roller coaster will be seen only in the context of
previously developed areas from U.S./New York State Route 9 and
Round Pond. Because of the availability of vegetative screening
and the site topography, the roller coaster will not be visible
from other visually sensitive locations such as Warren County Bike
Trai 1. Round Pond. the Glens Falls Country Club or ad j acent
residentially-zoned properties. 2. Audible noise studies
performed for the EIS also demonstrate that the roller coaster is
not likely to produce noise significantly above background levels
on adjacent properties and should not produce noise levels which
are perceptible or objectionable to the community. using commonly
accepted noise modeling methodologies and standards. 3. The
anticipated simulation of park attendance from the addition of the
roller coaster should not significantly degrade traffic mobility or
"levels of service" on U.S. Route 9 or Round Pond Road.
Preexisting traffic concerns with pedestrian crossing U.s. Route 9
between the theme park's parking lots and the park entrance have
been mitigated in the review of this project through installation
of two new pedestrian crossings, including pedestrian-actuated
traffic signals. road striping and signage in accordance with the
NYSDOT Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. 4. Impacts of
potential parking requirements from the roller coaster on the Glen
Lake Freshwater Wetlands buffer area has been mitigated by the
project sponsor's agreement to prohibit "overflow" parking within
the state DEC-regulated 100 foot buffer area on the east side of
U.S. Route 9 as shown in FEIS Figure 3-2. The project sponsor has
also documented that its existing parking lots should be sufficient
to accommodate all parking requirements which are projected from
the theme park expansion (40 additional parking spaces). 5. The
project sponsor has documented that its proposed roll coaster and
related expansion of uses within the existing Great Escape Theme
Park are consistent with the district land use purposes. policies
and regulations of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code RC-15
District where the proposed project is located. which zoning is
intended to".. isolate. protect and encourage expansion of the
recreation industry." 6. No rare. endangered or other protected
species or other environmentally sensitive habitats or resources
are known to exist within the Great Escape Theme Park or general
project vicinity. 7. Comments on the Draft Environmental Impact
Statement included in the Final EIS establish that the Great Escape
Theme Park is a significant contributor to economic activity within
the Town of Queensbury and that expansion of the Great Escape Theme
Park will have a significantly positive economic and fiscal impact
on the substantial existing tourism industry in the Town and Warren
County. 8. In addition to the above. the following will serve to
mitigate potential environmental impacts as they relate to
construction generated traffic and visual impacts. a. Potential
construction vehicle generated impacts to the NY Route 9 highway
system will be mitigated by scheduling to allow for delivery of
construction equipment and materials to the site during off-peak
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traffic hours. b. Construction will occur in a single phase which
will reduce the length of time over which construction vehicles and
activities will be present. c. The roller coaster is a
preexisting structure which will be disassembled at its present
location and reassembled at the Great Escape. Since the structure
will be constructed in sections this will simplify the process and
allow construction to occur within a shorter time frame than would
otherwise occur. CERTIFICATION OF FINDINGS TO
APPROVE/FUND/UNDERTAKE Having considered the Draft and Final EIS.
and having considered the preceding written facts and conclusions
relied upon to meet requirements of 6 NYCRR 617.9. this Statement
of Findings certifies that: 1. The requirements of 6 NYCRR Part
617 have been met; and 2. Consistent with the social. economic and
other essential considerations from among the reasonable
alternatives thereto. the action approved is one which minimizes or
avoids adverse environmental effects to the maximum extent
practicable: including the effects disclosed in the environmental
impact statement. and 3. Consistent with social. economic and
other essential considerations. to the maximum extent practicable.
adverse environmental effects revealed in the environmental impact
statement process will be minimized or avoided by incorporating as
conditions to the decision those mitigative measures which were
identified as practicable. Town of Queensbury Planning Board
Timothy Brewer. Chairman. September 23. 1993"
MR. BREWER-Okay. We have to introduce this?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. a resolution to accept it.
MR. BREWER-Would somebody care to introduce it?
MRS. TARANA-I had a couple of questions I wanted to ask on it.
before we vote.
MR. BREWER-Before we vote. go ahead.
MRS. TARANA-The Statement of Findings. now this is just to
determine that the FEIS is complete. and then we will go on to the
site plan. Am I right?
MR. MARTIN-What this does is it concludes the environmental review.
This is the equivalent of your normal resolutions you do. This
concludes the environmental review aspect of the project. You
will. then, once this is concluded. proceed to the site plan. where
you'll pick up with the public hearing. and then have your normal
discussion and resolution or vote.
MRS. TARANA-Okay. My questions. then. really apply to site plan.
and I had raised questions. before. about the completeness of the
FEIS which I don't think were really addressed here. So I will
vote no on the findings.
MR. BREWER-Anybody else have any comments?
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 14-90 THE GREAT ESCAPE THEME PARK.
Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption, seconded by
WHEREAS. the Town Planning Board is in receipt of site plan
application file #14-90 to construct a roller coaster: and
WHEREAS. the above mentioned site plan application dated 8/18/93
consists of the following: 1. Sheet Sl site plan. revised 8/20/93
2. Sheet 2 plan/profile. dated 8/29/93 3. Sheet 3 twelve ton
bridge. dated 8/20/93 4. Sheet 4 Dl detail dated 8/20/93: and
WHEREAS. the above file is supported with the
documentation: 1. Rist/Frost comments. dated 9/23/93
notes, dated 9/23/93 3. Draft EIS. dated 6/91 4.
dated 7/93. and
following
2. Staff
Final EIS.
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WHEREAS. a public hearing was held on 8/3/91 and 9/23/93 concerning
the above project; and
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements of
Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning):
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has
factors found in Section 179-39
Queensbury (Zoning).
considered the
of the Code of
environmental
the Town of
WHEREAS. the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered: and
THEREFORE. Let It Be Resolved. as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board. after considering the above. hereby
move to approve site plan #14-90 2. The Zoning Administrator is
hereby authorized to sign the above referenced plan. 3. The
applicant shall present the above referenced site plan to the
Zoning Administrator for his signature within 30 days of the date
of this resolution. 4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set
forth in this resolution. 5. The conditions shall be noted on the
map. 6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on the compliance
and continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process and the following conditions: 1. potential
construction vehicle generated impacts to the NY Route 9 highway
system will be mitigated by scheduling to allow for delivery of
construction equipment and materials to the site during off-peak
traffic hours. 2. construction will occur in a single phase which
will reduce the length of time over which construction vehicles and
activities will be present. 3. the roller coaster is a
preexisting structure which will be disassembled at its present
location and reassembled at the Great Escape. Since the structure
will be constructed in sections this will simplify the process and
allow construction to occur within a shorter time frame than would
otherwise occur. 4. Existing topographic and vegetative features.
primarily the slopes and trees to the east and south of the
proposed coaster. shall be maintained.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993. by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: Mrs. Tarana
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-Now. you would re-open the public hearing and proceed
with your normal.
MR. BREWER-Well. I want to go over Scott's notes first. and then
we'll read the letters. and then we'll take public comment.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Site Plan No. 14-90. The Great Escape Theme Park.
Meeting Date: September 23. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTION: The
applicant is proposing to construct a roller coaster. The coaster
is 91 feet high and approximately 860 feet long. It is located on
2.2 acres of land wi thin a 237 acre amusement park. PROJECT
ANALYSIS: In accordance with Section 179-38 A.. the project is in
compliance with the other requirements of this chapter. including
the dimensional regulations of the zoning district in which it is
to be located. In accordance with Section 179-38 B.. the project
was reviewed in order to determine if it is in harmony with the
general purpose or intent of this chapter. and it was found to be
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compatible with the zone in which it is to be located and should
not be a burden on supporting public services. In accordance with
Section 179-38 C.. the proposal was reviewed regarding its impact
on the highways. It was found to be no significant impact on the
road system. In accordance with Section 179-38 D.. the project was
compared to the relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39 _
(2) (b) Erosion Erosion control implemented during and after
construction and prompt replacement of vegetation and landscaping
will mitigate problems that are associated with erosion. (4)(a)
Noise - the project's impact on noise was examined. Noise studies
found that the project will not significantly increase the ambient
noise levels on nearby properties. (5)(f) Wetlands - Even though
the amusement park is adjacent to the Glen Lake wetland. the area
of the coaster is approximately 600 feet away. The project should
not have a negative impact on the wetland. The project should not
have a negative impact on the wetland. The applicant has also
agreed to eliminate existing overflow parking that currently exists
within 100 feet of the wetland. (7) Aesthetics - The project's
visual impact was also studied. Visual tests indicated that the
coaster will only be visible from small stretches along Route 9 and
Round Pond Road. The visual impacts were found to be
insignificant. The project was compared to the following standards
found in Section 179-38 E. of the Zoning Code: 1. The location.
arrangement. size. design and general site compatibility of
buildings. lighting and signs; The project should fit in well with
the existing character of the site. 2. The adequacy and
arrangement of vehicular traffic access and circulation. including
intersection. road widths. pavement surfaces. dividers and traffic
controls: Vehicular traffic access should not be impacted by this
project. 3. The location. arrangement. appearance and sufficiency
of off-street parking and loading; Off street parking should not
be impacted by this project. According to the traffic studies done
for this project. the increase in parking (40 spaces) that result
from the coaster can be supplied wi thin the existing available
parking areas. 4. The adequacy and arrangement of pedestrian
traffic access and circulation. walkway structures. control of
intersections with vehicular traffic and overall pedestrian
convenience: Pedestrian access to the park itself will be
improved. Crosswalks and signage will improve pedestrian safety
across Rt. 9. Access to the coaster itself will be via a ramp.
The ramp will cross above the existing water slide connecting the
existing sidewalk system to the proposed terminal building for the
coaster. The applicant should explain what measure will be used to
ensure the safety of pedestrians on the bridge and those that are
beneath it. 5. The adequacy of stormwater drainage facilities:
Rist-Frost comments will have to be addressed. 6. The adequacy of
water supply and sewage disposal facilities: The project should
not impact water supply or sewage disposal. 7. The adequacy. type
and arrangement of trees. shrubs and other sui table plantings.
landscaping and screening constituting a visual and/or noise buffer
between the applicant's and adjoining lands. including the maximum
retention of existing vegetation and maintenance including
replacement of dead plants: The applicant should detail proposed
landscaping. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes and emergency zones
and the provision of fire hydrants: Emergency access is adequate.
Existing fire hydrants are located near both ends of the coaster.
9. The adequacy and impact of structures. roadways and landscaping
in areas with susceptibility to ponding. flooding and/or erosion:
Ponding. flooding or erosion should not be factors affected by this
project. Erosion control measures will be implemented to reduce
any erosion related problems. RECOMMENDATION: There does not
appear to be any significant pr05lems associated with this site
plan and staff can recommend approval."
MR. BREWER-Okay. Tom. your comment.
ENGINEER REPORT
Notes from Rist-Frost. Tom Yarmowich. Town Engineer. Dated
September 21. 1993 "Rist-Frost has reviewed the revised project
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drawings. Previous engineering comments have been satisfactorily
addressed."
MR. BREWER-Okay. Again. we have several letters that I'm going to
ask the Secretary to read.
MR. MARTIN-You have some also attached to your packet that
originally came. and then some came today as well.
MR. BREWER-All right. Okay. Why don't you read those that came in
tonight. and then we can read the rest of them. whatever way you
want to do it.
MRS. TARANA-This is July 2. 1993 "Dear Mr. Brewer: I understand
that there will be a hearing scheduled tentatively for later this
month concerning approval of the installation of the famed Crystal
Beach "Comet" roller coaster at the Great Escape. I would like to
offer my views from my own experience to the Planning Department in
favor of this excellent attraction. For the record. I am 45 years
of age. a home owner. a manager at an electronics plant. and a
roller coaster enthusiast. I grew up in this area. and have spent
much of my summer time--and still do--in the Warren County/Lake
George area. and therefore feel a strong sense of personal concern
and attachment to the region. Based on experience and
observations. the worries of some local residents as to alleged
noise, etc.. are simply unfounded. which could be proved by a visit
to most any park with an operating wood track coaster. as it was
also confirmed by the Park's environmental impact study. I have
spoken with a few of those Glen Lake residents who opposed it at
the most recent hearing. I discovered that they were for the most
part well-meaning people who did not really have any concept of the
proposed site's location or surroundings. or of the nature of the
ride. As you may know. while the height of the ride is oft quoted
as 91'. the surrounding hills--not to mention forest--are taller
than this on three sides. the site being around 600 feet from Round
Pond Road. and several hundred feet from the wetlands. Yet some
people spoke of "visual impact" even tho the ride will be virtually
hidden from view from outside the park. Aside from the initial
hill. much of the "Comet's" track and structure is at or near
ground level. As any visitor to an amusement park--or hiker in the
Adirondacks--can confirm. trees and hills--in addition to the
visual block--are one of the best sound deadeners around. It is
ironic and mystifying to me why a few local residents. with limited
or no knowledge of the ride. would single out this one attraction
when there are no local standards imposed to remove the
considerable noise of high power speed boats. sea planes.
lawnmowers etc. on Glen Lake. Concern was expressed by a few over
"runnoff" of rain water--rainwater which falls there today. A
coaster is an open structure. That same rain falls through the
structure to the same ground that's there today. It is no
different than the rain which runs off the roofs of houses at Glen
Lake. or off the roof of the Glens Falls Country Club. Roller
Coasters are a non-polluting structure--no smoke. no effluents or
byproducts. No such complaints are offered by these few residents
about the runoff from their neighbor's roof or septic tanks. A
roller coaster is a safe. fun ride--the former supported by
insurance statistics. the latter by the millions of Americans who
love them. It's a two minute adventure in a controlled
environment. through a magnificent structure. an engineering
masterpiece. NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw referred to the roller
coaster as "the ride of the 90s". with respect to its popularity.
More people patronize parks and ride roller coasters each year than
attend major league baseball games. It's been my observation of
the amusement/theme park business that continuing improvements are
the vital part of survival. It may be easy to get a customer once,
but often takes something new to get repeat visitors. Wood track
coasters are enjoying a tremendous comeback. and are one of the
most requested new attractions at parks. It would ask that you
strongly consider the positive impact the Great Escape and Mr. Wood
have on the area through employment. taxe s. and the tremendous
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support the park brings for the tourist business upon which Warren
County and the town are so heavily dependent. A Great Escape
customer is usually a customer of several other businesses. One
has only to visit the site of the former Crystal Beach Park. as I
have recently. in Ontario near Buffalo. After that much smaller
park closed in 1989. every--I do mean every--surrounding business
folded and is currently boarded up in that little community. That
park did not inve st in its future. and fo lded. Mr. Wood's
commi tment to this area and the future of the Great Escape in
planning a major investment in such a classic attraction as the
former Crystal Beach "Comet" is to be commended as far as I'm
concerned. It should be a source of excitement. not unfounded
worry. The "Comet" is a fine and proven family ride. which was
considered in the top 10 in its final years. Before too much
credence is given to a few complaints based on lack of knowledge
and misinformation. please consider the joy that a fun ride like
the "Comet" would bring to thousands. Those that chose not to ride
it don't have to. Look around at the Great Escape. It is one of
the most beautiful and well run parks in the country. Everything
is first class. Certainly the installation and preservation of
this classic and historic ride will be no less than up to the
park's usual high standard. If the "Comet" is approved. there are
no losers. The Park's continued economic heal th--and the many
business around it--will be bolstered. countless thousands of park
patrons will be rewarded by a fun and exciting experience. and a
classic roller coaster--part of our heritage--will be preserved.
The nature of the ride and the proposed wooded location within the
park are such that I cannot fathom how its operation could impact
in the least way on nearby neighborhoods. hidden from view over a
quarter mile away. The impact can be only positive. insuring the
economic health of the park and area. Thank you for your time in
considering my views. Sincerely. Thomas G. Rhodes" This is dated
September 22nd. 1993. this is a record of a telephone conversation
between Mrs. Michael Massiano & Pam Whiting of the Planning Office.
the subject is the Great Escape Roller Coaster. "She will be unable
to attend the meeting. but would like to go on the record as being
opposed to the project. Also opposed are her husband Mr. Michael
Massiano and Mrs. Margaret Shaw (10 Greenwood Lane) who she was
al so call ing for." This is Septembe r 20. 1993. Birdsall Road.
"Dear Board Members: We are writing to obj ect to the proposed
roller coaster at the Great Escape. We are year round Birdsall
Road residents and would be directly effected by its construction
for the following reasons: 1. This very larger roller coaster
would be in our back yard as our property line adjoins that of the
Great Escapes old R.V. park. No matter what the studies show. we
will hear this roller coaster as we already hear noises and people
at the Great Escape. as do many people up and down Glen Lake and
throughout the Glen Lake area. 2. We feel that property value
will depreciate in our area as the noise levels from the Park
increase. Our homes will be much harder to sell with this enormous
roller coaster so near to our homes. 3. The Glen Lake area is the
home to numerous types of wildlife. The growth of the Great Escape
should be restricted and the original plan should be encouraged -
a small "fun park" for young children that would not effect the
surrounding residential community and would help protect the
delicate Glen Lake area. If a large. adult facility is the goal.
they should build it in a less sensitive. more commercial area.
Sincerely yours. Kathryn S. Alberico. Thomas H. Alberico. David W.
Stevens. C. Edith Orsini" "Attention Town Queensbury Planning It
seems foolish that the Great Escape cannot expand and improve the
operation that has been in existence for so many years in the same
location. There are many more important things the Town can get
involved with to keep the quality of life and environment as it
should be preserved. The entire Town is being deforested and
blacktopped before our eyes. Yet existing business that has been
established for years is being stifled. Ben Aronson" September
22. 1993 "To Whom It May Concern: We would like to put in a good
word for Charley Wood and "The Great Escape" as far as constructing
their new roller coaster ride. Charley Wood has had a strong
economic impact on our small family owned business for over forty
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years. and we feel that he can bring even more revenue into the
area by expanding his theme park. All of us here hope that the
planning board will grant approval for this new project. Thank
you. Very truly yours. Richard D. Leland President/CEO" September
23. 1993. regarding the roller coaster at Great Escape "Gentlemen:
On behalf of the Board of Directors of the Glen Lake Protective
Association I wish to state that the Board does not object to your
approval of the proposed Roller Coaster. The board believes that
the applicant's acceptance in this application of a prior condition
of this Board not to allow parking within the 100 foot wet land
buffer located by the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation satisfies the main concern of the Glen Lake Protective
Association - protection from pollution to the Glen Lake wet land.
There are other concerns that have been brought to the attention of
the sponsor of this project. However. given the apparent spirit of
cooperation of the sponsor these concerns do not rise to the level
that the Board of Directors wishes to make them an issue in this
approval process. The Glen Lake Protective Association thanks the
Planning Staff and the Members of the Board for their cooperation.
Yours very truly. Glen Lake Protective Association By: Michael J.
O'Connor Board Member" September 21. 1993. regarding the roller
coaster project at the Great Escape "Dear Planning Board Members:
The Queensbury Business Association would like to go on record in
support of the application for The Great Escape Theme Park for the
construction and operation of the Comet Roller Coaster within the
Theme Park. The Queensbury Business Association (QBA). by its
membership. participated,in the combined public hearing for SEQRA
and Site Plan Review held on August 3. 1991. The QBA also provided
wri t ten comments dated August 21. 1991. in connection wi th the
proposed roller coaster. Those written comments requested that you
recognize the environmental impact statement as being very thorough
and we. at that time. encouraged expediency in getting through the
environmental impact process. We know that you have accepted the
final environmental impact statement as complete and we believe
that The Great Escape has addressed all of the issues raised by the
public at both the hearing and pursuant to written comments.
including traffic. parking. noise. purpose and need for the
project. erosion control. land use. future expansion. and operating
hours. The applicant has significantly improved the pedestrian
crossings on Rt. 9. thereby providing safe ingress and egress to
the Park. We also know that the applicant has mitigated the
wetland concern expressed by the Glen Lake Protective Association
by its agreement not to park any cars on the wetland buffer. That
mitigation measure was adopted at the time the Noah's Sprayground
and Black Cobra attractions were approved by this Board. The
current zoning of The Great Escape provides for this kind of
attraction and. as a matter of fact. the zoning ordinance
emphasizes that in the RC 15 Zone(i.e. Recreation/Commercial zone).
the town "wishes to isolate. protect. and encourage expansion of
the recreation industry." We believe that the addition of this
roller coaster to the Town of Queensbury. more particularly The
Great Escape Theme Park. will provide our region with yet another
attraction which all of the people who earn their living in the
recreation industry in our area can point out when attempting to
market the area. All of our businesses. whether in the recreation
industry or otherwise. need to remain competitive and need to keep
changing to meet customer needs. The Great Escape is no different
than any other business and needs to keep upgrading its attractions
in order to continue to prosper. Its prosperity contributes to all
of our prosperity. This particular roller coaster has national
significance. It is likely to be listed on the National Historic
Register and we are lucky it will have Queensbury. New York. as its
new home. There are very few roller coasters like it left in the
country. and it is a tribute to Mr. Wood and The Great Escape that
he is willing to make the investment to bring it here in these
uncertain economic times. We strongly request that you give site
plan approval for the roller coaster tonight so that construction
can begin and be ready for the 1994 season. Sincerely. David Kenny
President" Graycourt Motel September 23. 1993 Reference: the
roller coaster the Great Escape "Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: This
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letter is addressed to the Planning Board regarding the above
application. We will be unable to attend the meeting today at 7:00
P.M. and therefore we are sending this FAX to advise the Board that
as motel owners and residents of Twicwood. we have no objection to
the above Roller Coaster being erected at the Great Escape. Alice
Amoia Marianne McDonough Thomas J. McDonough John Whalen.
September 23. 1993 "Queensbury Planning Board: I am a resident of
Queensbury and own 40 acres of land adjacent to the Great Escape.
and only 288' from the proposed roller coaster site. I would like
to go on record at the September 23. 1993 Planning Board public
hearing as opposing the proposed roller coaster. The Final
Environmental Impact Statement was supposed to include sound
monitoring at my property line. Instead. the Great Escape sound
was monitored 600 ft. south of my property line (FEIS 3-4). and the
data reported as being "representative of existing noise levels
present at the Whalen property". (FEIS 3 Page 12). Using this
data the FEIS reported that the proposed roller coaster would
increase the noise level on my property to 70 decibels (FEIS
section 3. Page 13). The FEIS arrived at this 70 decibels using a
point source factor of 6 decibels loss per doubling of the
distance. This factor is very favorable for the Great Escape.
However a line loss factor of 3.0 to 4.5 decibels loss per doubling
of the distance is probably more representative of the moving line
of roller coaster cars. and would calculate to a noise level of 78
decibels on my property. In addition most of my land is lower
(440' to 500' elevation) than the high point of the roller coaster
(503' elevation). which would tend to carry the sound. I feel an
increase in noise of 20 to 30 decibels. to a level of 70 to 78
decibels on my property. is a significant negative impact. which I
feel is both unfair. and unacceptable. Obviously. this high level
of almost continuous noise and screaming on my property would
destroy its potential for residential. or quiet
recreation/commercial uses. and drastically reduce its value. The
proposed roller coaster would have a negative impact on hundreds of
surrounding homes and properties. and should not be constructed.
Sincerely. John Whalen"
MR. BREWER-That's it?
MRS. TARANA-That's it.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Does anybody on the Board have any comments?
MRS. TARANA-I want to ask a question before we get into the public
hearing and everything. The notice that went out. did that come
from the Planning Department. the notice that went out about the
public hearing. that was in yesterday. distributed yesterday?
MR. MARTIN-Among the neighbors? I don't know. I don't think so.
MRS. TARANA-I'm curious about this. because someone presented one
to me. asking why I sent them that letter. and I didn't know what
they were talking about. and it's here somewhere in all my papers.
It's on Queensbury letterhead. but it's copy. because I think your
letterhead is blue on toP. isn't it. the "Q"?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MRS. TARANA-Okay. So this was a copy. and apparently was put in
mailboxes. which is illegal. It also requested. in big letters
across the top it said "Roller Coaster". which didn't look like it
would come from this office.
MR. MARTIN-No. We don't usually do those.
MRS. TARANA-In addition to which. it was signed by me on September
16th. and I knew nothing about it. I don't know who sent it. I
just want everybody to know. I had nothing to do with it. and
obviously the Planning Department didn't either.
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MR. MARTIN-Especially if it was under your signature.
MRS. TARANA-My name wasn't actually signed. It was just typed, and
I'll give it to you. I just don't know what I did with it.
MR. MARTIN-I'd like to see that. but we did not send anything like
that out. The public hearing was left open from a previous
meeting.
MRS. TARANA-And I don't know who it went to. This was a person who
lives in Twicwood who got it in her mailbox. I've got it
somewhere.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would you care to make any comments. Mr. Lemery?
MR. LEMERY-Mr. Brewer. Members of the Planning Board. my name is
John Lemery. I'm here on behalf of the Great Escape. I really
don't have any comments at this point. I think everything that can
be said has been said. I'd just like to acknowledge that Holly
Elmer is here with us from the LA Group. that worked on the site
plan and Land Use Planning. Tom Wages from the Great Escape is
here. Bobbi Wage s. who's Chief Financial Off icer for the Great
Escape is here. and Tim Dunbeck. he was responsible for taking down
the roller coaster out at Ontario. and will be principally
responsible for erecting it here, if this application is approved.
Tim is here. if you've got any questions you'd like to ask him
about it. Other than that. I'd be glad to sit back and relax.
MR. BREWER-Okay. The public hearing was left open. I guess we'll
take public comment. Would anybody care to speak. for or against
this?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
CHUCK MCNULTY
MR. MCNULTY-I'm Chuck McNulty and I live at 14 Twicwood Lane.
Having sat here for this long, I've got to at least say something.
I guess several points. measuring noise is very difficult to do.
I'm not at all sure it's go ing to make any di fference in your
decision. but I would like to point out that. One. the measurement
was compared to ambient noise. A good deal of the ambient noise
that we have now is from Great Escape. I will also say that I
think that they've been trying hard the last couple of years to
contain that noise. because I've been thinking about it today. that
we really haven't noticed as much from this last summer as we have
before. So they are cooperating. I think. in that extent, but just
because noise is not necessarily loud does not mean it is not
obnoxious. We have similar problems from places like Skateland.
They have some real deep based speakers that drives you crazy at
night. It's not real loud. but it's kind of hard synchronizing
with the bass. I guess a couple of other comments. I know some of
the business people feel a lot of the residents have been squawking
and trying to curtail the business. but I'd make the point. too.
that anything like this does affect our property values. My
property on Twicwood Lane I'm sure has gone down in value because
of additional noise that we're getting from Skate land and Great
Escape. and the fact you'can now see Route 9 when you look at our
backyard because Sokol's Market's been developed where it is.
Nothing prevents them from doing it. but nevertheless. this
development is impacting the value of our property in Twicwood.
When we moved in in Twicwood, the Great Escape was not there.
Story town was there. So to make the argument that we knew what we
were moving into when we moved in. no. not true. The nature of the
place has changed over the years. and I think that's one of the big
concerns that's underlying a lot of people's objections out in the
Twicwood area. It's not so much roller coaster or noise, it's
just, where is this thing going. They're getting more and more big
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raucous rides in there. Are they going to continue to be a family
park. or is it gradually going to turn over to be more of a raucous
place. and be more like the Lake George Village. which is something
we don't like to see. So. I think that's why you're getting a lot
of the concerns that you are. As I say. I think they're trying
hard to cooperate. and I can appreciate that. and expect that
they're going to continue. I'd make one plea with them, if they
get this roller coaster put uP. that they not. like they did their
other one.
MR. BREWER-You won't be able to see it. I don't think.
MR. MCNULTY-I'm not convinced. but.
MR. BREWER-Anyone else?
STUART FASS
MR. FASS-Good evening. My name is Stuart Fass. I am a dentist
practicing in Altamont. New York. I am a current member of ACE.
the American Coaster Enthusiasts. and I am a former Board Member of
the Gui lderland Chamber of Commerce. former President of the
Al tamont Business Association. I'd like to put forth to you
several factors that need to be considered here as well. The
growth of the amusement industry is very well documented.
Paramount Pictures is buying amusement parks. Walt Disney. who
himself was opposed to roller coasters and thrill rides.
nevertheless gave in. and put the Matahorn Ride in Disneyland
before he died. and gave the final approval for Space Mountain and
Thunder Mountain Railroad as concept rides at Disneyworld. which of
course was not opened at the time of his death. Even he realized
that they are part of the family park. and we hear a lot. roller
coaster enthusiasts. my family travels every summer. We take 10 to
14 days. We take our trailer with us. This summer it was
Pennsylvania. 15 roller coasters in 9. Last summer it was visit
grandma and grandpa in Florida and hit every coaster down the east
coast. We did 20 in two weeks. Yes. we all ride. My youngest is
now 12. My oldest is 17. My wife and all three kids ride.
There's a certain amount of nuttiness to it. maybe. but if you want
to talk family values. roller coasters are our family values.
MR. BREWER-You can probably get real close on a roller coaster.
MR. FASS-You get kind of close with your kids. They don't do
drugs. They get a natural high. The amusement industry has got to
upgrade. It's no different than any other industry. If it doesn't
compete. if it can't meet today's standards. the amusement industry
is going to go the same way as everybody else. Cedar Fair. the
Holding Company that owns Cedar Point Amusement Park. Dorney Park
in Allentown. Pennsylvania. Cedar Point in San Dusky. Ohio. which
currently has the record number of coasters in one park. at nine.
That Park went publ ic. four. five years ago now. with a stock
offering at seven and a half. They're currently trading at twenty-
nine and a half. paying a dollar seventy-five a share dividend.
Yes. I'm kicking myself. I didn't buy any. This is the way of the
amusement industry. They are clean entertainment. They are family
based entertainment. We've been in the inner cities in Pittsburgh.
and been to Kennywood Park. right in the City of Pittsburgh. and
the kids can walk around without having to worry. This is pretty
much the rule of amusement parks today. It's a nice family
industry. and as such. yes. it probably will grow some. and yes
thrill rides seem to be the ride of the nineties. The last roller
coaster at Cedar Point was the Mean Streak. World's Tallest Wood
Coaster. To put the project here in some perspective. the main
lift tail is 165 feet high from wood. It kind of dwarfs the 91
feet that we're dealing with. That. of course. is not a comparison
anyway. but those ride s. at seven to eight mi II ion do lIars of
investment. are paying back to the parks within a year or a year
and a half. The Magnum 200 Tallest Steel Coaster at the time paid
Cedar Point back in one year. one operating season. with ridership.
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not local ridership. outside tourist ridership. families coming to
ride. Kids. my kids. after waiting three hours to ride a roller
coaster. and I quote "can we get on line again". They're dramatic
rides. They're fun rides. They're very safe. I understand what
local property owners feel. I myself live in very close proximity
to the Altamont Fair Grounds. both my office and my home. I both
live and work in Altamont. and. yes. the noise can be a problem at
times. and yes. the ride people have worked with us to a noise
abatement. As technology gets better. noise gets lower. but I
wonder what property values might do if a Park like Great Escape
doesn't keep up with the times. and does not draw the ridership.
I wonder how local property owners might fair in a market where
people come to see their property. and say. hey there's no local
services around here. All your local stores have closed up. Your
convenient are gone. There's nobody down at this end of town. So.
I think that there might be some trade off in that aspect. In
conclusion. we roller coaster fanatics. of course. are purists. We
like our roller coasters. We all have our different favori tes.
I've ridden the Crystal Beach Comet in Crystal Beach. I did my
dental schooling in Buffalo. We spent many evenings traveling over
to Crystal Beach. It's a dynamic coaster. It's a terrific ride.
They're safe. They're fun. If anybody would like to come see my
videos from the front car. I collect those too. and I thank you
very much for hearing me this evening.
MR. BREWER-Thank you.
MRS. PULVER-Thank you.
MR. BREWER-Is there anyone else who'd like to speak?
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. BREWER-Does anybody on the Board have any questions. comments?
MRS. TARANA-I have a question. My main concern about the roller
coaster at this point is the parking. because when I have read
what's transpired. it was said that if excess parking were needed.
it would be done at the Bavarian Palace. That could be used as
overflow parking. Is that still your intention to do that?
MR. LEMERY-It's still available for overflow parking. sure.
MRS. TARANA-Okay. When I read the FEIS. it said. your comment. in
the DEIS. Dan Kane raised the question of parking there. and he
says. traffic patterns in the DEIS. Page 19. indicates 200 plus
vehicles can be accommodated in the Bavarian Palace parking lot.
I believe when the final approvals were given for that project.
parking was to be for activities strictly for the Bavarian Palace.
MR. BREWER-That's the Final.
MRS. TARANA-I know.
That's what I'm reading.
MR. BREWER-I thought you said Draft.
MRS. TARANA-The Draft raises the question. The Final answers it.
Okay. Activities strictly for the Bavarian Palace. and could not
be used for overflow or employee parking. and could not be used as
an entrance to the park. and your response to that was. I'm on Page
9. Section III. Response D. copies of all County and Town Planning
Board meeting minutes. memoranda and letters. pertaining to the
Bavarian Palace site plan review and approval were obtained and
reviewed. and no such restrictions are indicated. On peak
attendance days. it is likely that the Bavarian Palace parking area
will be used for park attendee or employee parking. since the
wetland parking was eliminated. Okay. So your response was that
you didn't have any. no minutes indicated that there could be
parking. and I remember this whole conversation being on the Warren
County Planning Board that that question was raised. and I dug up
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the Queensbury Planning Board minutes of September 7th. 1988. when
you did receive your approval. September 20th. not September 7th.
1988. and this is. quoting from it. Mr. Judge confirmed to the
Board that the parking area. this is referring to the Bavarian
Palace. would only be used for Bavarian Palace parking. If there
is an event at the Bavarian Palace. people can walk through the
building to get into the amusement park. If there is no event at
the Bavarian Palace. the parking lot will not be used for the
purpose of entering the amusement park. No tickets for the park
will be sold at this location. Isn't that contradictory to what
you're saying. that the Bavarian Palace will be used for parking?
MR. LEMERY-Our position is that there were no restrictions imposed
on the parking at the Bavarian Palace by that Planning Board or by
any Board. So no one has said that you can't park at the Bavarian
Palace. I can't speak for what Wayne Judge said in 1988.
MRS. TARANA-But I think the whole point is. Wayne Judge. very. very
defini tely gave the impression that there would be no parking.
It's in the Warren County minutes. It's in here. that there would
be no parking for the amusement park at the Bavarian Palace. and
that you were given approval. not you personally. they were given
approval based on that assumption. because it was a very
controversial topic.
MR. LEMERY-Not so far as we're able to tell. None of the
resolutions provided for any restriction in parking.
MRS. TARANA-The resolution does not say that. It was given
approval based on the fact you would not park there.
MR. LEMERY-I'm not trying to be evasive.
speak to that.
I wasn't here.
I can't
MRS. TARANA-I know you weren't.
MR. LEMERY-Okay.
MRS. TARANA-I'm just. I'm telling you there are minutes that
address it and say that clearly.
MR. LEMERY-Our position is that it is not contradictory. If it was
a condition to the site plan. then. obviously. our position would
be it was a condition to the approval as set forth in the hearings.
MRS. TARANA-It was not a condition. because it was presented to the
Boards that there would be no parking there.
MR. LEMERY-At that time. there was also parking on the wet lands
fen. referred to as parking on the wet land. on these same days.
The Great Escape mitigated that. and stopped that parking. So. we
believe there's adequate parking there. and I have no other better
way to answer it. other than. it's factually correct. as to what's
de scribed here in our response s. and we looked through it. and
could find no restriction. as parking at the Bavarian Palace. with
regard to that. Now. as we've stated from time to time. I think
it's the intention of the Great Escape Management that the parking
would probably not be used for guests of the Great Escape. because
they don't want. tickets to go in. and probably used by the
employees. The Great Escape this year had a good year. and there
were no parking problems. and there was no parking in the wetlands.
So we don't see. Mrs. Tarana. that there would be a parking problem
there. That's the only way I'm able to answer it.
MRS. TARANA-My concern in addition to the parking at the Bavarian
Palace is that the overflow parking from the Bavarian Palace goes
out onto Round Pond Road. That was evidenced this weekend. if
anybody went to the October Fest. and they saw the parking all
along Round Pond Road. I believe that's a No Parking zone. Isn't
it?
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MR. MARTIN-If it's not posted. I wouldn't have any knowledge.
MRS. TARANA-I believe it's posted. isn't it?
MR. LEMERY-I have no knowledge of that.
posted or not.
I don't whether it's
MRS. TARANA-Well. you know. this whole issue has come up before.
and like I say. it was very clear. from the presentation of the
lawyer at that time. that there would be no parking at the Bavarian
Palace for the amusement park.
MR. LEMERY-It is not intended that the Bavarian Palace is going to
be used on a regular basis for parking at the Great Escape. It's
intended here that the only time the Bavarian Palace would be used
would be on those few days when there is a significant need for
addi tional parking. We've already provided. in our. for 40
additional spaces. and I think the impact statement's pretty clear
wi th respect to how many spaces there are there. and how many
spaces that have been provided with respect to this ride. So. it's
just not possible to determine. based on the information that we
have. that there's going to be a problem here with parking. If
there is a problem. the Great Escape owns the Bavarian Palace land.
and is prepared to use it. principally for employees. but I don't
think that it's a contradictory item. because what we're saying
here is that no restrictions were provided at that time. and that
was a question we asked. What is there. that the Bavarian Palace
approval restrictions placed on parking? We're not intending to
use this. and Tom Wages will speak to it if he has a different
opinion than I do. but there's no intent. so far as I know. to use
this as a permanent parking area for attendees of the park. because
you'd have to reconfigure the whole ingress and egress of the park.
You can't ask people to walk around the corner. there's no
sidewalks there or anything. so that you'd have to bus the patrons
over there.
MRS. TARANA-Well. if you do use it for overflow parking. how will
you get them over there?
MR. LEMERY-They will be employees that it will be used for. and
they would be going through the gate.
MRS. TARANA-So. you would not be using it for overflow parking for
the amusement park itself?
MR. LEMERY-It's intended that the employees would be asked to park
there. and it would be used by the employee. but that's hard to
tell on a day to day basis. You don't know. on a day to day basis.
what you're going to get until some time after the park opens and
it starts to fill up. So it's not until some time in the late
morning when you know you're going to face a traffic problem. At
that time. I assume Tom talks to the employees and has them go over
to the Bavarian Palace or whatever. I can't speak to it better
than that.
MRS. TARANA-Would you be open to a condition that there'd be no
amusement park parking at the Bavarian Palace?
MR. LEMERY-No.
MRS. TARANA-Why? I mean. if you're not going to use it.
MR. LEMERY-I just don't think it's relevant.
MRS. TARANA-Well. I think it's relevant because in your original
application you said you were going to park there.
MR. LEMERY-What original application? I'm not trying to be. what
original application?
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MRS. TARANA-In the minutes, when it was first proposed.
MR. LEMERY-What was first proposed, the Bavarian Palace. or the
Great Escape Roller Coaster?
MRS. TARANA-That the Bavarian Palace would be used for overflow
parking.
MR. LEMERY-Yes. we would intend that the Bavarian Palace. if
necessary. would be used for overflow parking. It's there at the
Great Escape. It's owned by the Great Escape. and if there's a
need, from time to time, to have park some cars there. we'll park
some cars there. consistent with public safety and all the other
concerns that this Board should have regarding ingress and egress
to the Park. and the safety of the patrons of the Park. and the
employees of the Park. I don't have any better way to answer that.
It's a day to day thing. Hopefully this Park will be filled. and
they'll have to go buy some land somewhere to park cars. but at
this point. it's not contemplated that we'll need that parking
there for other than employees. but we don't want to make ita
condition. because we don't know. The roller coaster's not there.
We have no idea. If it's a problem. it's going to be a problem
that's going to be faced by the management here and by the Town.
and we'll have to deal with it. and the Great Escape will deal with
it. and the Great Escape has certainly got the economic wherewithal
to mitigate it and deal with it. and be responsible. and provide
the Town with the kinds of protection to its citizens that is
needed. but at this point. I can't answer it better than that.
MRS. TARANA-Okay. and I would just contend that it was very clearly
presented to the Warren County Planning Board that there would be
no parking in the Bavarian Palace. That was part of their
discussion. as I've said. and the only reason. one of the reasons
that they did approve it at that time was because they knew there
wouldn't be parking there. and that's exactly what Mr. Judge said.
MRS. PULVER-You're talking about the minutes of the Warren County
meeting. and not minutes of the Queensbury Planning Board.
MRS. TARANA-And the minutes. he said that again in the September
20th meeting minutes of the Queensbury Planning Board.
MRS. PULVER-But it's not in the motion.
MRS. TARANA-It' s not in the motion. It was material that he
presented saying there would be no parking.
MR. BREWER-Anything else?
MRS. TARANA-My other. I brought this up before. I'll just throw it
out. because I still think the FEIS did not address noise at night.
It never monitored. It didn't do anything about noise at night.
and if you have noise. You know. it's a different situation if
you're listening to all the cars and everything else that are going
around during the day. but at night. it's a total different
situation. if you hear people on a roller coaster and the Park
open, and I don't think the FEIS addressed that at all, and they
are open at night, on occasion.
MRS. PULVER-I thought the roller coaster could not be operated at
night because of the lighting. it didn't have enough lighting. Is
that correct?
MR. LEMERY-Well. our position is that the Great Escape is not open
at night. There are two or three or four occasions from time to
time. I don't know if there was more than one occasion this year
when the Great Escape was open at night for a Charitable purpose.
Was there more than one occasion?
TOM WAGES
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MR. WAGES-One occasion. and then the October Fest.
MR. LEMERY-Yes.
MR. STARK-The whole park wasn't open at night?
MR. WAGES-Only a portion.
MR. LEMERY-Right. One thing you try and do in a Final
Environmental Impact Statement is mitigate to the best you can.
It's not erase every issue. and solve every issue 1Ø0 percent.
It's not possible.
MRS. TARANA-But the issue was raised. It wasn't answered.
MR. LEMERY-Yes. it was answered.
MRS. TARANA-How was it answered when no monitoring?
MR. LEMERY-You can't monitor at night. if there's nothing happening
at night.
MRS. TARANA-And there's no sound that can be tested. I know. I've
already heard this. Okay.
MR. BREWER-Are you all set?
MRS. TARANA-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Would somebody care to make a motion?
MR. MARTIN-We have a prepared resolution.
MRS. PULVER-Okay. I have my own written. I think I'll just read
all of this.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 14-90 THE GREAT ESCAPE THEME PARK.
Introduced by Carol Pulver who moved for its adoption. seconded by
WHEREAS. the Town Planning Board is in receipt of site plan
application file #14-90 to construct a roller coaster; and
WHEREAS. the above mentioned site plan application dated 8/18/93
consists of the following: 1. Sheet Sl site plan. revised 8/20/93
2. Sheet 2 plan/profile. dated 8/29/93 3. Sheet 3 twelve ton
bridge. dated 8/20/93 4. Sheet 4 Dl detail dated 8/20/93: and
WHEREAS. the above file is supported with the
documentation: 1. Rist/Frost comments. dated 9/23/93
notes. dated 9/23/93 3. Draft EIS. dated 6/91 4.
dated 7/93. and
following
2. Staff
Final EIS,
WHEREAS. a public hearing was held on 8/3/91 and 9/23/93 concerning
the above project: and
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements of
Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury (Zoning);
WHEREAS. the Planning Board has
factors found in Section 179-39
Queensbury (Zoning).
considered the
of the Code of
environmental
the Town 0 f
WHEREAS. the requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review
Act have been considered: and
THEREFORE. Let It Be Resolved. as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board. after considering the above. hereby
move to approve site plan #14-90 2. The Zoning Administrator is
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hereby authorized to sign the above referenced plan. 3. The
applicant shall present the above referenced site plan to the
Zoning Administrator for his signature within 30 days of the date
of this resolution. 4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set
forth in this resolution. 5. The conditions shall be noted on the
map. 6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on the compliance
and continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process and the following conditions: 1. potential
construction vehicle generated impacts to the NY Route 9 highway
system will be mitigated by scheduling to allow for delivery of
construction equipment and materials to the site during off-peak
traffic hours. 2. construction will occur in a single phase which
will reduce the length of time over which construction vehicles and
activities will be present. 3. the roller coaster is a
preexisting structure which will be disassembled at its present
location and reassembled at the Great Escape. Since the structure
will be constructed in sections this will simplify the process and
allow construction to occur within a shorter time frame than would
otherwise occur. 4. Existing topographic and vegetative features.
primarily the slopes and trees to the east and south of the
proposed coaster. shall be maintained.
Duly adopted this 23rd day of September. 1993, by the following
vote:
MR. BREWER-Okay. Just one question before we vote.
Warren County do with this?
What did
MR. MARTIN-They approved it. It was back in '90. or something like
that.
MR. BREWER-I just didn't have it.
MRS. TARANA-Why did it say they were on the agenda for 9/8/90?
MR. MARTIN-It was pulled, because at the time this was typed. it
wasn't known that they were there before. It was checked. and they
were.
MRS. TARANA-Because I knew it had been approved before.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: Mrs. Tarana
ABSENT: Mr. LaPoint
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED.
Timothy Brewer, Chairman
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