1993-12-21
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 21, 1993
INDEX
Resolution
Resolution
Resolution
Site Plan No. 19-92
Site Plan No. 58-93
Site Plan No. &2-93
Site Plan No. &3-93
Si t e Plan No. &1-93
Joyce Folsom
1.
Rita & Robert Whiteman
4.
Thomas Bolen
&.
Jerry Brown
10.
Florence Murphy
11.
Joseph Koncikowski & Linda Abodeely 21.
Car Essentials 31.
Richard Eggleston/Thomas Stimpson 38.
Petition for Zone
Change P9-93
Donald Baker
57.
Resolution
Dr. Koock Jung &3.
Guido Passarelli &4.
Garth Allen &5.
Olive Garden Restaurant &&.
Site Plan No. 39-92
Subdivision No. 4-1992
Subdivision No. 21-1993
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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OUIIBSBURY PLARBIRG BOARD
SICORD REGULAR KBI~IRG
DICIMBIR 21S~. 1993
7.88 P.M.
MII~IRG
MIMBIRS PRISIB!'
TIHOTHY BREWER. CHAIRMAN
CORINNE ~ARANA. SECRETARY
GEORGE STARK
ROGER RUEL
CRAIG MACEWAN
MIMBIRS ABSIR!'
CAROL PULVER
EDWARD LAPOINT
EXICU!'IVB DIRIC!'OR-JAMES MARTIN
!'OWB IBGIBBIR-TOM YARMOWICH. RIST-FROST
S!'IBOGRAPHBR-HARIA GAGLIARDI
HR. BREWER-We're eroiner to skip the first five resolutions. and
we'll do them last. and we'll ero rierht into the first resolution of
SEORA.
SBORA RIVII".
,
RISOLU~IOR ACKROWLIDGIRG LIAD AGBRCY S~A~US ARD RIVIB" O~ !'HB LORG
BA~ ~OR !'HI ~OLLOWIBG . JOYCI ~OLSOH. RI'fA & ROBBR!' WHI!'BKAR.
'fHOKAS BOLl.
JOYCB ~OLSOM
HR. BREWER-Do vou want to read Scott's notes. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
S!'A~~ IRPU~
Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 100-1993 SEORA review. Jovce
Folsom. Meetiner Date. December 21. 1993 "PROJIC!' DBSCRIP'l'IOB.
The applicant is seekiner a variance for minimum lot size. The lot
is located in a WR-1A zone and has .97 acres. The pr01ect is
located in the Lake Georere C.E.A. PROJIC'f ABALYSIS. The Planniner
Staff reviewed Part 2 of the Loner Environmental Assessment
submitted with this pr01ect and offers the followiner comments. 1.
Will the proposed action result in a physical chanGe to the pro1ect
site? The proposal will allow for the future construction of a
sinerle familY house on an undersized lot. 2. Will there be an
effect to any uniGue or unusual land foras found on the site?
There are no unique or unusual land forms found on the site. 3.
Will the proposed action affect any water bodY desiclDated as
protected? 'fhe proposal will not affect any protected water bodY.
4. "ill proposed action affect any non-protected existinG or new
bodY of water? The proposal will not affect any non-protected
water body. 5. Will proposed action affect surface or
Groundwater? The proposal will not affect surface or erroundwater.
6. "ill proposed action alter drainaGe flow or patterns or surface
water runoff? The proposal will not affect drainaere flow or
surface water runoff. 7. Will proposed action affect air Guality?
The pro 1 e'ct should not impact ai r eruali ty. 8. Will proposed
action affect any threatened or endanGered species? The proposed
action should not affect any threatened or endanerered species. 9.
Will the proposed action substantiall v affect non-threatened or
non-endanGered species? The pr01ect should not affect any non-
threatened or non-endanerered species. 18. "ill the proposed
action affect aGricultural land resources? The pr01ect should not
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affect any aqricul tural land resources. 11. Will the proposed
action affect aesthetic resources? The pr01ect should not impact
any aesthetic resources. 12. Will proposed action i.pact any site
or structure of historic. prehistoric or paleontoloQ'ical
i.portance? The pr01ect should not have a neqative impact on any
site of historic. prehistoric. or paleontoloqical importance. 13.
Will proposed action affect Q'uantitv or quality of existinq or
future open space or recreational opportunities? The action should
not have an adverse effect on open space or recreational
opportunities. 14. Will there be an effect to existinq
transportation svste.? The pr01ect should not effect the
transportation system. 15. Will proposed action affect the
co..unitv's sources of fuel and enerqv? The proposal should not
impact the community's enerqy or fuel supply. 16. Will there be
ob1ectionable odors noise or vibrations as a result of the proposed
action? There should not be ob1ectionable noise. odors or
vibrations as a result of this pr01ect. 17. Will proposed action
affect public health and safety? The pr01ect should not affect
public health or safety. 18. Will proposal affect the character
of the existinQ' co..unitv? The pr01ect should not have a neqative
impact on the character of the community. RBCOMHBRDA~IOR. The
pr01ect does not appear to have any siqnificant adverse impacts on
the environment; therefore. the staff can recommend a neqative
declaration on this pr01ect for the purposes of SEORA."
MR. BREWER-And this will not come back for a site plan. will it.
Jim?
MR. MARTIN-No. As construction of a new house. it would not.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Does anYbody have any questions? Okay. We can
do the SEORA. How does this work. Jim? Do we acknowledqe beinq
lead aqent first. or afterwards? Because the resolution reads
that.
MR. MARTIN-You should acknowledqe that first.
MR. BREWER-Okay. We have a prepared resolution. Would somebodY
care to introduce it. as written?
RESOLUTION ACKNOWLEDGING LEAD AGENCY STATUS IN CONNECTION WITH Area
Variance Ro. 100-1993 Joyce ~olso.
RESOLUTION NO.1 33 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY. Roqer Ruel
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BYI
Georqe Stark
WHEREAS. in connection with the Area Variance Ro. 100-1993.
Jovce ~olso. the Town of Oueensbury Planninq Board. bY resolution.
previously authorized the Executive Director to notify other
involved aqencies of the desire of the Planninq Board to conduct a
coordinated SEORA review. and
WHEREAS. the Executive Director has advised other involved
aqencies have been notified and have consented to the Town of
Oueensbury Plannlnq Board beinq lead aqent.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensbury Planninq Board hereby
recoqnizes itself as lead aqent for purposes of SEORA review. and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensbury Planninq Board herebY
determines that it has sufficient information and determines the
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siqnificance of the proiect in accordance with SEQRA as follows:
1) an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required for the
action. as the Planninq Board has determined that there will be no
siqnificant effect or that identified environmental effects will
not be siqnificant for the followinq reasons: and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Executive Director is herebY authorized to
qive such notifications and make such filinqs as may be required
under Section 617 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations of the State of New York.
Dulv adoPted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okav. Now we can do the SEQRA.
RZSOLUTIOR WHZR DZTZRHIRATIOR or RO SIGRIrICARCB IS HADZ
RZSOLUTIOR RO. 33 or 1993. Introduced bv Corinne Tarana who moved
for its adoption. seconded bv Craiq MacEwan:
WHEREAS. there
application for:
is presently before the Planninq Board an
JOYCE rOLSOM. for Area Variance Ro. 100-1993. and
WHEREAS. this Planninq Board has determined that the proposed
proiect and Planninq Board action is sub1ect to review under the
State Environmental Qualitv Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal aqencv appears to be involved.
2. The followinq aqencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered bv this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Requlations
implementinq the State Environmental Oualitv Review Act and
the requlations of the Town of Queensburv.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed bv the
applicant.
5. Havinq considered and thorouqhlv analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and havinq considered the criteria
for determininq whether a proiect has a siqnificant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations for the State of New York. this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken bv this Board will have no
siqnificant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planninq Board is herebY authorized to execute and siqn and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-siqnificance or a
neqative declaration that may be required bv law.
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
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NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. Next
RITA & ROBERT WHITEHAR
MR. BREWER-Jim. do YOU want to qO throuqh Scott's notes?
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
S'l'AI'I' IRPUT
Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 101-1993 SEORA review. Rita &
Robert Whiteman. Meetinq Date: December 21. 1993 "PROJECT
DESCRIPTIOR: The applicant is proposinq to remove an existinq
quest house and replace it with a 31' x 24' qaraqe with a quest
apartment above. Tþe proiect requires a variance to allow for less
than a 20' side yard setback and an increase of 1% of impermeable
area; the code requires 65% and the applicant is proposinq 58%.
The property is located on Lake Georqe. PROJECT ARALYSIS: The
Planninq Staff reviewed Part 2 of the Lonq Environmental Assessment
submitted with this proiect and offers the followinq comments: 1.
Will the proposed action result in a physical chanqe to the proiect
site? The proposal will not result in a physical chanqe to the
proiect site. 2. Will there be an effect to any unique or unusual
land foras found on the site? There are no unique or unusual land
forms on the site. 3. Will the proposed action affect any water
bodY desiqnated as protected? The proposal will not affect any
protected water bodY. 4. Will proposed action affect any non-
protected existinq or new body of water? The proposal will not
affect any non-protected water body. 5. Will proposed action
affect surface or qroundwater? The proposal will not affect
surface or qroundwater. 6. Will proposed action alter drainaqe
flow or patterns or surface water runoff? The proposal will not
affect drainaqe flow or surface water runoff. 7. Will proposed
action affect air quality? The proiect should not impact air
quality. 8. Will proposed action affect any threatened or
endanqered species? The proposed action should not affect any
threatened or endanqered species. 9. Will the proposed action
substantially affect non-threatened or non-endanqered species? The
proiect should not affect any non-threatened or non-endanqered
species. 10. Will the proposed action affect aqricultural land
resources? The proiect should not affect any aqricultural land
resources. 11. Will the proposed action affect aesthetic
resources? The proiect should not impact any aesthetic resources.
12. Will the proposed action iapact any site or structure of
historic. prehistoric or paleontoloqical iaportance? The pro;ect
should not have a neqative impact on any site of historic.
prehistoric or paleontoloqical importance. 13. Will proposed
action affect quantity or quality of existinq or future open space
or recreational opportunities? The action should not have an
adverse affect on open space or recreational opportunities. 14.
Will there be an effect to existinq transportation systea? The
pro;ect should not effect the transportation system. 15. Will
proposed action affect the coaaunity's sources of fuel and enerqy?
The proposal should not impact the community's enerqy or fuel
supplY. 16. Will there be ob1ectionable odors. noise or
vibrations as a result of the proposed action? There should not be
obi ectionable noise. odors or vibrations as a result of this
pro;ect. 17. Will proposed action affect public health and
safety? The proiect should not affect public health or safety.
18. Will proposal affect the character of the existinq coaaunitv?
The pro;ect should not have a neqative impact on the character of
the community. RECOMHERDATIOR: The pro;ect does not appear to
have any siqnificant adverse impacts on the environment: therefore.
the staff can recommend a neqative declaration on this pro;ect for
the purposes of SEORA."
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MR. BREWER-Okav. Would somebody care to introduce the resolution
acknowledqinq lead aqencv status?
RESOLUTION ACKNOWLEDGING LEAD AGENCY STATUS IN CONNECTION WITH Area
Variance Ro. 101-1993 and Site Plan Review for Rita and Robert
White.an
RESOLUTION NO.: 34 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY: Corinne Tarana
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Roqer Ruel
WHEREAS. in connection with the Area Variance Ro. 101-1993.
Rita and Robert White.an. the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board. bv
resolution. previous Iv authorized the Executive Director to notify
other involved acrencies of the desire of the Planninq Board to
conduct a coordinated SEORA review. and
WHEREAS. the Executive Director has advised that other
involved aqencies have been notified and have consented to the Town
of Oueensburv Plannincr Board beincr lead aqent.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board hereby
recocrnizes itself as lead acrent for purposes of SEORA review. and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board hereby
determines that it has sufficient information and determines the
siqnificance of the pro1ect in accordance with SEORA as follows:
1) an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required for
the action. as the Planninq Board has determined that there will be
no siqnificant effect or that identified environmental effects will
not be siqnificant for the followinq reasons: and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Executive Director is hereby authorized to
qive such notifications and make such filinqs as may be required
under Section 617 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Recrulations of the State of New York.
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okav.
MRS. TARANA-The Lonq Environmental Assessment Form.
RESOLUTIOR 1fRER DETERHIRATIOR OF RO SIGRIFICARCE IS HADE
RESOLUTIOR RO. 34 OF 1993. Introduced bv Corinne Tarana who moved
for its adoption. seconded bv Roqer Ruel:
WHEREAS. there
application for:
101-1993. and
is presently before the Planninq Board an
RITA ARD ROBERT WHITEHAR for Area Variance Ro.
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WHEREAS. this Planninq Board has determined that the proposed
proiect and Planninq Board action is subiect to review under the
State Environmental Qualitv Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal aqencv appears to be involved.
2. The followinq aqencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered bv this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Requlations
implementinq the State Environmental Oualitv Review Act and
the requlations of the Town of Queensburv.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed bv the
applicant.
5. Havinq considered and thorouqhlv analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and havinq considered the criteria
for determininq whether a proiect has a siqnificant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations for the State of New York. this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken bv this Board will have no
siqnificant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planninq Board is hereby authorized to execute and siqn and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-siqnificance or a
neqative declaration that may be required bv law.
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MRS. TARANA-This won't come back. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-No. because they're totally tearinq down a structure and
rebuildinq new.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Next item.
THOMAS BOLER
STAFF IBPUT
Notes from Staff. Area Variance No. 98-1993 SEORA review. Thomas
Bolen. Meetinq Date: December 21. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTIOB: The
applicant is proposinq to construct a second principal buildinq on
a non-conforminq lot. Thev will remove an existinq barn and
utilize the footprint. Thev will be expandinq the footprint to the
rear bv seventeen (17) feet. The applicant requires a variance for
the second principal buildinq. PROJECT ARALYSIS: The Planninq
Staff reviewed Part 2 of the Lonq Environmental Assessment
submitted with this pro1ect and offers the followinq comments: 1.
Will the proposed action result in a physical chanqe to the pro1ect
site? The proposal will not result in a physical chanqe to the
proiect site. 2. Will there be an effect to any unique or unusual
land for.s found on the site? There are no unique or unusual land
forms found on the site. 3. Will the proposed action affect any
water body desiqnated as protected? The proposal will not affect
any protected water body. 4. Will proposed action affect any non-
protected existinq or new bodY of water? The proposal will not
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affect any non-protected water body. 5. Will proposed action
affect surface or qroundwater? The proposal will not affect
surface or qroundwater. 6. Will proposed action alter drainaqe
flow or patterns or surface water runoff? The proposal will not
affect drainaqe flow or surface water runoff. 7. Will proposed
action affect air quality? The proiect should not impact air
quality. 8. Will proposed action affect any threatened or
endanqered species? The proposed action should not affect any
threatened or endanqered species. 9. Will the proposed action
substantiallY affect non-threatened or non-endanqered species? The
pr01ect should not affect any non-threatened or non-endanqered
species. 10. Will the proposed action affect aqricultural land
resources? The proiect should not affect any aqricultural land
resources. 11. Will the proposed action affect aesthetic
resources? The pr01ect should not impact any aesthetic resources.
12. Will proposed action i.pact any site or structure of historic.
prehistoric. or paleontoloqical iaportance? The proiect should not
have a neqati ve impact on any site or historic. prehistoric or
paleontoloqical importance. 13. Will proposed action affect
quanti tv or quality of existinq or future open space or
recreational opportunities? The action should not have an adverse
affect on open space or recreational opportunities. 14. Will
there be an effect to existinq transportation syste.? The proiect
should not effect the transportation system. 15. Will proposed
action affect the co.aunitv's sources of fuel and enerqy? The
proposal should not impact the community's enerqv or fuel supply.
16. Will there be ob1ectionable odors. noise or vibrations as a
result of the proposed action? There should not be obiectionable
noise. odors or vibrations as a result of this proiect. 17. Will
proposed action affect public health and safety? The proiect
should not affect public health or safety. 18. Will proposal
affect the character of the existinq co..unitv? The proiect should
not have a neqati ve impact on the character of the communi tv.
RECOHHE.DA~IO.: The proiect does not appear to have any
siqnificant adverse impacts on the environment: therefore. the
staff can recommend a neqative declaration on this pr01ect for the
purposes of SEORA."
MR. BREWER-Okav.
acknowledqement?
Would
somebodY care to introduce
the
RESOLUTION ACKNOWLEDGING LEAD AGENCY STATUS IN CONNECTION WITH
Area Variance Bo. 98-1993 for ~ho.as Bolen
RESOLUTION NO.: 35 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY: Roqer Ruel
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Corinne Tarana
WHEREAS. in connection with the Area Variance Ro. 98-1993.
~ho.as Bolen. the Town of Queensburv Planninq Board. by resolution.
previous Iv authorized the Executive Director to notifY other
involved aqencies of the desire of the Planninq Board to conduct a
coordinated SEORA review. and
WHEREAS. the Executive Director has advised that other
involved aqencies have been notified and have consented to the Town
of Oueensburv beinq lead aqent.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board hereby
recoqnizes itself as lead aqent for the purposes of SEQRA review.
and
BE IT FURTHER.
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,
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board hereby
determines that it has sufficient information and determines the
siqnificance of the proiect in accordance with SEORA as follows:
1) an Environmental Impact Statement will not be required for the
action. as the Planninq Board has determined that there will be no
siqnificant effect or that identified environmental effects will
not be siqnificant for the followinq reasons: and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Executive Director is herebY authorized to
qive such notifications and make such filinqs as may be required
under Section 617 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations of the State of New York.
Duly adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. by the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
RBSOLUTIOR VHBR DBTBRMINATION OF RO SIGRIFICARCE IS MADE
RBSOLUTIOR RO. 35 OF 1993. Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved
for its adoPtion. seconded by Roqer Ruel:
WHEREAS. there
application for:
is presently before the Planninq Board an
Variance Ro. 98-1993 for THOMAS R. BOLER. and
WHEREAS. this Planninq Board has determined that the proposed
proiect and Planninq Board action is subiect to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal aqency appears to be involved.
2. The followinq aqencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Requlations
implementinq the State Environmental Qualitv Review Act and
the requlations of the Town of Oueensburv.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed bv the
applicant.
s. Havinq considered and thorouqhlY analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and havinq considered the criteria
for determininq whether a proiect has a siqnificant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations for the State of New York. this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken bv this Board will have no
siqnificant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planninq Board is hereby authorized to execute and siqn and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-siqnificance or a
neqative declaration that may be required bv law.
Duly adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. by the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
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NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. MARTIN-Tim. could I suqqest YOU do that first resolution there.
while we're on the SEORA business? It's requestinq lead aqency
status on the Harris Bay Yacht Club? That's 1ust a prepared
resolution in your packet.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebody care to introduce the resolution
32 of 1993 Requestinq Lead Aqency Status for the Harris Bav Yacht
Club?
RESOLUTION OF INTENT OF PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWN OF OUEENSBURY TO
BE LEAD AGENT IN THE REVIEW OF Area and Use Variances and Site Plan
Review for the Harris Bay Yacht Club
RESOLUTION NO.: 32 of 1993
INTRODUCED BY: Craiq MacEwan
WHO MOVED ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY:
Georqe Stark
WHEREAS. the Harris Bav Yacht Club has submitted an
application for variances site plan review in connection with a
pr01ect known as or described as an expansion of a nonconforminq
use: modifyinq and expandinq an existinq clubhouse via an enlarqed
deck area incorporatinq a handicapped access ramp. expansion of a
nonconforminq 192 square foot shed by 216 square feet. removal of
existinq stockade wood fencinq near clubhouse. revision of. and
additions to exterior liqhtinq for waterfront walkway. clubhouse.
and parkinq area. construction of a new wood fence enclosure six
(6) feet hiqh to screen recyclinq dumpster. and
WHEREAS. the Town of Queensbury Planninq Board desires to
commence a coordinated review process as provided under the DEC
Requlations adopted in accordance with the State Environmental
Oualitv Review Act (SEORA).
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board herebY
determines that the action proposed by the applicant constitutes a
Type I action under SEORA. and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board hereby
indicates its desire to be lead aqent for purposes of the SEQRA
review process and herebY authorizes and directs the Executive
Director to notify other involved aqencies that: 1) an
application has been made bv the Harris Bav Yacht Club for
variances and site plan review: 2) a coordinated SEQRA review is
desired; 3) a lead aqency for the purposes of SEORA review must
therefore be aqreed to amonq the involved aqencies within 30 days;
and 4) the Town of Oueensburv Planninq Board desires to be the
lead aqent for purposes of SEQRA review; and
BE IT FURTHER.
RESOLVED. that when notifvinq the other involved aqencies. the
Executive Director shall also mail a letter of explanation.
toqether with copies of this resolution. the application. and the
EAF with Part I completed by the pro1ect sponsor. or where
appropriate. the Draft EIS.
Dulv adoPted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
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AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. That's it for them. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That takes care of all the SEORA business.
MR. BREWER-Okay. First item of New Business.
RICHARD MCLENITHAN
MR. MCLENITHAN-Mr. Chairman. are you qoinq to entertain your new
business before YOU do your old business?
MR. BREWER-What old business?
MR. MCLENITHAN-Jerrv Brown.
MR. BREWER-We've qot a revised aqenda. I don't know if yOU have it
or not.
MRS. TARANA-Old Business is last.
MR. BREWER-The extension and. yes. we were qoinq to do that.
That's under Old Business. last.
MR. MCLENITHAN-You're qoinq to do the Old Business last?
MR. BREWER-It's iust an extension. Yes. We can do it now. I
quess. if nobody has a problem. All riqht. Lets do Jerry Brown
first. That was iust a matter of findinq out whether they applied
for a buildinq permit anyway. wasn't it. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 19-92 JERRY BROWR EXTENSION OP SITE PLAN APPROVAL
SEE LETTER OP 10-28-93 . PROM KINGSLEY. TOWRE & MCLENITHAR
RICHARD MCLENITHAN
MR. BREWER-Okay. We don't have any notes or anvthinq on that. do
we?
MR. MARTIN-No.
MR. BREWER-It's iust a simple extension.
MR. MACEWAN-What was the deal with that?
MR. MARTIN-HistoricallY. it's been the position of the Town. if
action's taken on a site plan within the one year time frame. then
no extension's necessary. and application of a buildinq permit can
constitute action. and therefore the requirements fulfilled. You
have submitted a buildinq permit alreadY. correct?
MR. MCLENITHAN-We have submitted it. but the buildinq permit can't
be finalized because of financinq problems. Mv name is Richard
McLenithan. I'm with Kinqsley. Towne. and McLenithan. the
attorney's for Mr. Brown. and iust because of the circumstances
reqardinq financinq. he's not able to complete the. puttinq the
buildinq in within the scope of this past year. and we're
requestinq extension of site plan for another year.
MR. BREWER-I think we discussed last week with.
- 10 -
MR. MARTIN-Has a buildinq permit actually been issued. or are you
1ust applied for it?
MR. MCLENITHAN-No. a buildinq permit has not been issued.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. Well. then an extension would be required from
this Board.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebody care to make a motion?
MOTION TO GIVS A ORE TSAR SXTERSION TO SITE PLAR RO. 19-92 JSRRY
BROWN. Introduced by Craiq MacEwan who moved for its adoPtion.
seconded by Roqer Ruel:
DulY adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bY the followinq
vote:
MR. BREWER-WhY don't we make it throuqh December 31st.
MR. MCLENITHAN-That would be fine.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
month.
It's always easier when YOU do the end of the
AYES: Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
NEW BUSIRESS:
SITE PLAR RO. 58-93 TYPE FLORENCE MURPHY 01fRER: SAME AS ABOVE
ZONE: LC-42 AIRR -SA. C.E.A. LOCATIOR: RIDGE ROAD. ROUTE 9L. 2
MILES SOUTH OF PILOT KROB RD. PROPOSAL IS TO ALTER BARR FOR USE AS
A LODGE HALL. (WOODHER OF THE WORLD) BEAUTIFICATIOH COMMITTEE:
12/6/93 WARRER COURTY PLARHIHG: 12-8-93 APA TAX MAP RO. - 22-1-
4.1 LOT SIZE: 14.67 ACRES SECTIOH: 179-13. 179-15
DOUGLAS SHAW. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
MRS. TARANA-What' s the type of action on this, there's nothinq
there?
MR. BREWER-Jim. there's no type of action. Is that unlisted. or
Type II. Florence Murphy?
MR. MARTIN-I believe that would be a Type I Action.
STAFF IlIPUT
Notes from Staff. Site Plan No. 58-93. Florence Murphy. Meetinq
Date: December 21. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTIOR: The applicant is
proposinq to utilize an existincr barn as a lodcre hall. The
property is 14.67 acres in size and the barn is 5,184 square feet
in size. The property is zoned LC-42A. The applicant indicated
that the past use of the property was aqricultural. The property
is not serviced by municipal water or sewer. PROJECT ARALYSIS. In
accordance with Section 179-38 A.. the pr01ect is in compliance
with the other recruirements of this chapter. includincr the
dimensional requlations of the zoninq district in which it is to be
located. In accordance with Section 179-38 B.. the pr01ect was
reviewed in order to determine if it is in harmony with the qeneral
purpose or intent of this chapter. and it was found to be
compatible with the zone in which it is to be located and should
not be a burden on supportinq public services. In accordance with
Section 179-38 C.. the proposal was reviewed reqardinq its impact
on the hiqhways. There was found to be no sicrnificant impact on
the road system. In accordance with Section 179-38 D.. the pr01ect
- 11 -
was compared to the relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39.
The proiect was compared to the followinq standards found in
Section 179-38 E. of the Zoninq Code: 1. The location.
arranqement. size. desiqn and qeneral site compatibility of
buildinqs. liqhtinq and siqns: The existinq structure will not be
altered. No new liqhtinq or siqnaqe is proposed. 2. The adequacy
and arranqement of vehicular traffic access and circulation.
includinq intersections. road widths. pavement surfaces. dividers
and traffic controls: Vehicular traffic access is adequate. The
existinq access point to the property will be utilized so new
drives are proposed. 3. The location, arranqement. appearance and
sufficiency of off-street parkinq and loadinq: There is a parkinq
area indicated on the plan that will accommodate approximate Iv 30
cars. The applicant indicated that this number would meet their
parkinq needs. Should the need for parkinq increase. there is
ample room to provide additional parkinq. 4. The adequacy and
arranqement of pedestrian traffic access and circulation walkway
structures. control of intersections with vehicular traffic and
overall pedestrian convenience: This is not an issue. 5. The
adequacy of storm drainaqe facilities: This is not an issue. 6.
The adequacy of water supply and sewaqe disposal facilities: The
applicant will have to supply information reqardinq well location
and the site's suitability for a sePtic system. 7. The adequacy.
type and arranqement of trees. shrubs and other suitable plantinqs.
landscapinq and screeninq constitutinq a visual and/or nòise buffer
between the applicant's and adioininq lands. includinq the maximum
retention of existinq veqetation and maintenance includinq
replacement of dead plants: Screeninq should be provided alonq the
front of the property. The plantinqs should provide year round
screeninq of the site. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes and other
emerqency zones and the provision of fire hydrants: Emerqencv
access is adequate. 9. The adequacy and impact of structures.
roadways. and landscapinq in areas with suscePtibility to pondinq.
floodinq and/or erosion. This is not an issue. RECOMMENDATION:
Providinq everqreens are planted to provide screeninq and the
applicant can show the sites suitability for water and septic staff
can recommend approval of this application."
MR. MARTIN-And Warren County approved. site plan application to
alter barn for lodqe hall for Woodmen of the World.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Does anYbodY on the Board have any questions?
MR. RUEL-I had a question for Jim. Item Two on Paqe Two. Jim. the
answer to that question. existinq access point to the property will
be utilized, so no new drives?
MR. MARTIN-No new drives are proposed.
MR. RUEL-None. Thank you.
MR. BREWER-Does anYbody have any questions for the applicant?
MRS. TARANA-What are Woodmen of the World?
MR. SHAW-They're a non-profit life insurance society.
MRS. TARANA-And what will they be doinq in this buildinq?
MR. SHAW-We have our lodqe meetinqs on a monthly basis. and our
youth qroup.
MRS. TARANA-What about the question of adequacy of water and
sewaqe?
MR. BREWER-Do YOU have any plans for a new well?
MR. SHAW-There is a drilled well.
MR. BREWER-There is a drilled well there.
- 12 -
MR. RUEL-Is this a two story barn?
MR. SHAW-Yes. it is. There's actuallY two buildinqs on the
property. One's a pole barn, and one's a two story buildinq.
MR. RUEL-This is the 5.000 square foot two story buildinq.
MR. BREWER-Do YOU propose to use both of them?
MR. SHAW-The other one would be more for outside acti vi ties. if
it's necessary.
MR. MACEWAN-For Staff. does a qranqe hall fall under a public
buildinq kind of quideline, where they would have to have liqhtinq
for outdoors and handicapped access and that sort of thinq?
MR. MARTIN-I think they would have to meet the handicapped
accessibility. because this would be a buildinq used bv the public.
Liqhtinq, I'm not so sure that there~s a standard for that. but in
terms of handicapped access. I believe they would have to meet
that.
MR. MACEWAN-Do YOU have intentions of complvinq with that?
MR. MARTIN-In terms of the septic and well location on that. that
would be a matter of. also. the buildinq permit. Thev'd have to
indicate that for their buildinq permit.
MR. MACEWAN-What kind of alterations do YOU plan there. if any?
MR. SHAW-Really not much. close up the two biq open doors. So it's
insulated and heated with a furnace. Make it accessible in the
winter and summer. We would like to have a bathroom in there. of
course. We would put a septic tank in there. You'd have a pump
out system. or a holdinq tank to pump out.
MR. BREWER-Is it iust basicallY a barn there riqht now?
MR. SHAW-Yes.
MR. BREWER-So you're qoinq to have to basicallY reconstruct it.
then.
MR. SHAW-No. It's a little better than a barn.
all insulated. It's all sheeted on the inside.
but it's a little better than a normal barn.
The bottom half is
It's a barn, yes.
MR. BREWER-The floors and evervthinq in it?
MR. SHAW-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Is there power already at the site?
MR. SHAW-Yes. there is. power. and as a matter of fact. there was
a phone line in there.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Is there anythinq else?
MR. MARTIN-What's qoinq to be the frequency of your meetinqs. and
what number?
MR. SHAW-Once a month. and we've run around 20. 25 people.
MR. BREWER-If YOU qet more members. are yOU qoinq to have more
meetinqs?
MR. SHAW-No. once a month.
MR. BREWER-Okav.
- 13 -
MRS. TARANA-What about the screeninq of the site?
MR. SHAW-We'd plant trees in the front.
MRS. TARANA-And is that what yOU presented to the Beautification
Committee? Did we qet a report from them?
MR. BREWER-Yes. and they approved, I think.
MR. MACEWAN-How lonq do you fiqure it will be before all your
renovations are completed?
MR. SHAW-A maximum of six months.
MR. BREWER-Anvthinq else? I quess, if nobody else has qot anvthinq
else. I'll open the public hearinq. Anvbodv from the public?
PUBLIC HEARIBG OPEBED
EVERT VOORHIS
MR. VOORHIS-Evert Voorhis. Upper Ridqe Road. In 1988. I looked at
the property as a prospective dwellinq and home. Bv the Oueensburv
Buildinq Department I was told that. due to the structure of the
barn. it could not be turned into a home. It could only be used
for storaqe purposes. and that if I was interested in purchasinq
the property. I'd have to put up another. I was capable of placinq
one home on the property. and since I couldn't make a home out of
the barn. I dropped the subiect. because there was no sense in me
puttinq another house on the propertv. Do they have any other
future uses for the property. besides the clubhouse?
MR. BREWER-We can write these questions down. and we'll come back
to the applicant and let him answer them.
MRS. TARANA-How much property is involved in this whole parcel?
MR. BREWER-Fourteen point six seven acres. Anv other uses. He
said he's qoinq to have possibly a baseball diamond or somethinq
like that, but that's.
MR. VOORHIS-Yes. but is there anvthinq ironed down. nailed down. as
to prospective uses. besides the ballpark? How many dimensions?
How many parkinq for the ballpark. if there's qoinq to be
additional parkinq for the ballpark. where that location's qoinq to
be.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Why don't we have you. sir. if yOU would. iust
answer them. as we qo. Is that all the questions yOU have. Evert?
MR. VOORHIS-I'm iust qettinq started.
MR. BREWER-Okav. You qiye us the questions. and I'll write them
down. and then we'll qO back to them.
MR. VOORHIS-In reqards to the buildinq. that bothers me the most.
how somebody else can turn it into a livable function now.
MR. BREWER-Well. I don't think they're qoinq to live there. Evert.
Thev're Qoinq to qO there and have meetinqs.
MR. VOORHIS-It's qoinq to be an inhabited dwellinq. It's qoinq to
have septic. It's qoinq to have electricity. I was told that it
could onlY be used for storaqe. I know several people that wanted
to keep boats on it. Thev were qoinq to store boats and they were
turned down also.
MR. BREWER-Okav.
MR. VOORHIS-They've had prospective sales for the past five years.
- 14 -
/
/
but there was always turmoil when somebody went to look into the
property.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. VOORHIS-What type of septic tank is qoinq to qO in?
MR. BREWER-He said a holdinq tank.
MR. VOORHIS-A holdinq tank?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-That was one of his options.
MR. BREWER-Yes. There was a couple of oPtions.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Somethinq like that would require a variance from
the Board of Health.
MR. VOORHIS-What type of fill are they qoinq to use to fill the
property with?
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. VOORHIS-Your members were approximatelY. how many?
MR. BREWER-Twenty-five he said. twenty to twenty-five.
MR. VOORHIS-Okay. Thank you.
MR. BREWER-Thank you. Okay. We'll qO back to the questions for
yOU now. I quess the question about the buildinq beinq able to be
used. Jim. should be directed to you. I don't think he can address
that.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I have no knowledqe of what was said in '88. I
don't believe they talked to the Buildinq Department yet, as to the
useability of the buildinq. have you?
MR. SHAW-No. that's why we're here. if it's feasible, and then
we'll qo from there.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. so I don't know if the Buildinq Department's looked
at it. I've 1 ust seen the buildinq from the outside. I can't
speak to the structural soundness of the buildinq. I know it will
have to be brouqht into compliance with the Code. That's all I can
say at this time.
MR. BREWER-Is there a reason why if there was a buildinq. and
somebody brouqht it to Code. it couldn't be lived in?
MR. MARTIN-No. I can't imaqine. even some of the worst buildinqs.
dependinq on how much money you're willinq to spend. and what
lenqth you're willinq to qO to to qet it repaired. I have no
knowledqe of it. I can look into it. Do yOU know who,
specificallY. they miqht have spoken to?
MR. SHAW-You've qot Eric Hines. Frank Bernardo.
MR. BREWER-No. in the Town.
MR. SHAW-Dave Hatin was one of them.
MR. BREWER-Okay. We can address that. Okay. Another question he
had was any other uses.
MR. SHAW-Not at this time. I don't see any other uses. other than
an area. like I said. for a baseball diamond.
- 15 -
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MR. BREWER-Okay. and if there's any other uses. the V' II have to
come back to the Board anyway. Won't they?
MR. MARTIN-Riqht. and there's only a limited number of uses that
are allowed in LC-42 anyhow.
MR. BREWER-Additional parkinq. you're 1ust qoinq to provide the
parkinq that YOU show on your plan riqht now?
MR. SHAW-Riqht now. yes. I don't really anticipate havinq a lodqe
meetinq and a qroup activity qoinq on at the same time. I don't
anticipate a biq volume of cars there.
MR. BREWER-Okav. If YOU were to haye. say. a lodqe meetinq
toniqht. would the youth qroup meet next week?
MR. SHAW-Yes. 1ust a matter of schedulinq.
MR. BREWER-So it would be two meetinqs a month then?
MR. SHAW-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and no more in the summer. yOU don't think? Okay.
and are YOU qoinq to fill the property?
MR. SHAW-We did not plan on fillinq in the property. It looked to
me like it had been pretty well filled.
MR. BREWER-We drove riqht UP almost to the barn. I don't see where
he would have needed fill anyway. Mavbe in some spots if YOU were
qoinq to use them yOU miqht. but I don't see riqht where. to the
barn, we drove riqht UP to it, and I don't think there was any need
for fill there.
MR. VOORHIS-It drops riqht off behind the barn. The other
property. evervthinq slopes riqht down into the swamp. Now they're
qoinq to put a ballpark in. You'd have to fill that all in.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. Well. if that's what they choose to do.
then. that's what they'll have to do.
MR. VOORHIS-I wanted to know what they're qoinq to fill it with?
Is it qoinq to be a stump dump?
MR. BREWER-No. Evert. They have to comply with the Code. I mean.
if they're qoinq to start fillinq it, they can't 1ust qO put
anvthinq in there.
MR. VOORHIS-I know. but several thinqs have happened in the Town in
the past where thinqs have started. and then they had to qO back
and address (lost word) to solve the mystery. after it's already
been started.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Is there anyone else?
MAC COFFIN
MR. COFFIN-I'm Mac Coffin. It seems like my area's becominq a
dumpinq site for public buildinqs that seem to want to come in the
area. I kind of wish that the Red Lobster wanted to come UP there.
so that I wouldn't be stuck with them. Buffer zone. It's fine if
they put a little buffer on the road. but how about puttinq a
buffer on me. I'm the onl V one UP there now that's bufferinq.
There isn't anybody doinq anythinq at the Fish and Game Club.
Naturallv. these people aren't qoinq to do anvthinq next door
unless they're told.
MR. BREWER-What are YOU. across the street?
MR. COFFIN-Riqht next door to them.
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MR. BREWER-Riqht next door to them. and there's nothinq there now
at all?
MR. COFFIN-Other than on me. I have all the buffer. and I'm usinq
mine as farm land. It would be kind of nice if I could use mine
where somebody else would buffer also. Parkinq. they said 25 to 30
cars. and then they said 25 people. When I talked to. Scott
Harlicker. I believe. he told me that they were qoinq to have three
or four meetinqs a week. Now it's chanqed. here. to three or four
meetinqs a month. That would be a question. Twentv-five people.
Is there qoinq to be twenty-five people, or is this qoinq to be
like the Fish and Game Club when they told yOU people that there
was onl v qoinq to be twentv- fi ve. and we all know that there's
hundred's there on the weekend? And public use. That scared me
when yOU said public use. Mavbe yOU shouldn't have. but what are
we openinq ourselves UP to here? I mean. what's supposed to be a
Land Conservation zone. Like Evert said, several people I know
looked into the place. and they couldn't do anvthinq with it. as
far as chanqinq the barn into a house. because of septic problems
and whatnot. Now we're talkinq about havinq twenty-five or thirty
people here. maybe more. usinq these bathrooms. versus maybe. like
Evert, his family would have been three people. An environmental
impact. I think that should be looked into real closely. and other
uses scared me.
MR. BREWER-What other uses scared you?
MR. COFFIN-That's what scared me.
MR. BREWER-What other uses scared yOU thouqh?
MR. COFFIN-It could be anvthinq. Tim. If he puts the buildinq into
a lodqe hall. why couldn't. all of a sudden. there be a reliqious
cult meetinq there? I mean. I'm beinq facetious. but.
MR. BREWER-Probablv because it's not allowed.
MR. COFFIN-Where?
MR. BREWER-There's only certain uses allowed in that zone. and if
any use, he wants to do that's not allowed in the zoninq, then he
has to qO for a variance.
MR. COFFIN-What he's qoinq for a variance for is a qroup camp.
MR. BREWER-He's not qoinq for a variance. This is not the Zoninq
Board. It's an allowed use. what he wants to do there. He's
allowed to do. like the Fish and Game Club's allowed to do what
they're doinq. I can let yOU take this and yOU can look at the
uses. if yOU want to. what are allowed.
MR. COFFIN-I read over them. and the way I understood that we were
here for this to be a qroup camp. the way it was written UP here.
to alter the barn. site plan review.
MR. BREWER-The application is for. alter a barn for use as a lodqe
hall.
MR. COFFIN-So when do we come to a point of where we're qoinq to
address these other questions? I thouqht this would be the only
meetinq he'd have to qO to?
MR. BREWER-It would, unless.
MRS. TARANA-What is it that you're lookinq at that says it's a
camp?
MR. COFFIN-I was assuminq that. with what yOU were qoinq under.
You said Tvpe I. so I looked under Type I.
- 17 -
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MRS. TARANA-I thouqht YOU had a notice sayinq that. Okay.
MR. COFFIN-Also. the Land Conservation. this is probably 1ust kind
of arbitrary. but they've qot RR-5 and CEA. What does all that
mean?
MRS. TARANA-A CEA is a Critical Environmental Area.
MR. MACEWAN-RR-5 is Rural Residential Five Acre.
MR. BREWER-You're talkinq about this map riqht here?
MR. MACEWAN-You're lookinq on the aqenda?
MR. COFFIN-Aqenda.
MR. MACEWAN-RR-SA is Rural Residential Five Acre.
MR. MARTIN-That's another zoninq district.
MR. COFFIN-Isn't that all LC-42 there?
MR. MARTIN-No. I think this is on a split zone. this property, as
I recall. That's why it's indicated. both zones are indicated
there.
MR. COFFIN-I don't know as that matters anyway. does it?
MR. MARTIN-Well, that's what was advertised. The zoninq is always
in the advertisinq. and if this lot was bisected by two zoninq
districts. then both zoninq districts would be indicated in the
advertisinq.
MR. COFFIN-Could YOU answer that question for me. thouqh? When are
we qoinq to be able to address?
MR. BREWER-Address what?
MR. COFFIN-The other uses and.
MR. BREWER-The other uses that are listed here are allowed. Any
other use that he wants to do on that property. he has to come to
the Zoninq Board to qet a variance.
MR. MARTIN-Well. he has one of two thinqs. There's only one of two
permitted uses that he does not have to qO before any Board. and
that's sinqle family dwellinqs and a huntinq or fishinq camp less
than five hundred square feet. and associated accessory uses.
pri vate qaraqe. storaqe shed. qreenhouse. swimminq pool. home
occupation or private boathouse and dock. are the only thinqs in
this zone that don't have to come before any Board. Then there's
a series of site plan uses that would come before this Board. as
YOU are toniqht. and then anythinq that would deviate from any of
that would have to qO to the Zoninq Board for a use variance.
MR. COFFIN-Are we here for the site plan review?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. You're here for the site plan review on a qroup
camp. and I'll read YOU the definition of Group Camp. any land or
facility for housinq and recreational. educational or business
related uses by private qroups or semi-public qroups such as boy or
qirl scout qroups. fraternal lodqes or university or colleqe
conference centers.
MR. BREWER-What are YOU saYinq. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-That was the definition of Group Camp. and this was the
best way. the closest the Ordinance comes to this is the fraternal
lodqe.
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tt
-..,.....-
MR. BREWER-I would say recreation center and lodqe.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. and then the other thinqs he talked about. yOU
know, lodqinq and recreational with a softball diamond. and it's a
semi-public qroup.
MR. BREWER-This is a private club? It's not open to the public?
MR. SHAW-No. It's not open to the public.
MR. BREWER-So it is a private club.
MR. MARTIN-Private qroups are there. in the definition. as well.
MRS. TARANA-You won't have any types of activities where the public
would be invited in?
MR. SHAW-It's not planned. but it's possible. We don't have any
planned.
MR. BREWER-Is there anyone else?
KAREN SOMMER
MS. SOMMER-MY name is Karen Sommer. I met this qentleman in the
Assessor's Office. helpinq him find that tract of land. and I live
directl y across the road. in the red house. to the east of the
barn. and I think what you've heard toniqht from my neiqhbors,
Evert and Mac. is a little bit of shell shock. in the qeneral area
which we chose to live. I will say this. I went to see Jim earlier
in the week. I have not been notified yet. and remember we
discussed another situation where I don't think I was notified. but
I didn't qet today's mail. Unless it's in today's mail. I was not
notified of this meetinq.
MR. MACEWAN-You're supposed to be notified. how many days prior to
the meetinq?
MR. MARTIN-They're usuallY mailed off ten days a week prior to the
meetinq. You should have qotten it by now.
MR. MACEWAN-Were the other qentleman notified?
MR. COFFIN-We were notified.
MR. MARTIN-Then she's likelY been missed.
MR. BREWER-So. if she wasn't notified, does this have to be tabled.
or?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. you're lookinq at. YOU should re-do the public
hearinq.
MS. SOMMER-Aqain. I did not qet today's mail.
MR. MARTIN-No.
MR. MACEWAN-No. but you're supposed to be notified ten days prior.
ten days to the meetinq date.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Well. we can still qO on and iust leave the
public hearinq open.
MS. SOMMER-I think our concerns are from our experience with
Dunham's Bay Rod and Gun Club, and we have seen the zoninq chanqed
to accommodate their qrowth. We have seen horrible. unlivable.
kind of chanqes in the area, and we're afraid. I'm afraid of what's
qoinq to happen over there. and I want some sort of assurances.
I've been told we miqht expect a qood neiqhbor. and I trust the
person who told me that. but I'd like to know. down the road. if
- 19 -
we're qoinq to have 50 cars and the public. what really. ten years
down the road. as this qentleman proiects. how biq is this
insurance company? What miqht they do with this 14 plus acres.
that they can do an awful lot with. leqallv. We're concerned about
the quality of our life. and we iust want some questions answered.
in some way. to make us comfortable with what's qoinq on. even if
it's leqal. I would suqqest. first off. Scotch Pines in the front.
MR. MACEWAN-Are YOU within 500 feet of their property?
MS. SOMMER-I sure am. I'm quite familiar with the property. I
used to be the caretaker of the barns. when the ZUqqs. who. Mrs.
Florence Murphv bouqht from them. So I do know the property fairly
well. and our concern. and I think Mac and Evert would aqree with
me. is we iust don't want somethinq that qets out of control. if
it's leqal or not. We've qot the Gun Club leqal. It's out of
control.
MR. BREWER-I understand.
MS. SOMMER-Thank you.
MR. BREWER-Thank you.
MR. MARTIN-That property's in your name?
MS. SOMMER-Mv home? Yes. it is.
MR. MARTIN-Okav.
MR. BREWER-So what do we do from here. Jim? Do we leave the public
hearinq open. and make sure everYbody's re-noticed?
MR. MARTIN-There's reallY not even a need to leave it open. It's
qoinq to have to be re-advertised. There'll be a new public
hearinq.
MR. BREWER-Okav.
MR. MARTIN-And the other thinq I was qoinq to brinq UP is we only
have a Short Form SEQRA here. I would suqqest we qet a Lonq Form.
MR. BREWER-Okav. and one other thinq I would like to see. if we
could, it looks like you're qoinq to have to come back. is we could
qet some kind of an idea of what vou' re qoinq to do with this
buildinq. rather than iust a square on a piece of paper.
MR. MACEWAN-Personallv. I'd like to see a much more definitive plan
of what your intentions are UP there. a site plan. how YOU plan on
landscapinq it and makinq access for handicapped UP there. location
of where the ball field would be, proposed. a little bit more
detail than what YOU have.
MR. VOORHIS-In reqards to. he's qoinq throuqh. basically. what I
went throuqh. askinq the information and how to qO forward and
evervthinq. I'd like to know. in reqards to what he's actuallY
qoinq to chanqe in the buildinq. office or whatever. the kitchen.
or how they're qoinq to qO about makinq that a livable dwellinq. or
inhabited dwellinq.
MR. BREWER-Okav.
MR. MACEWAN-And YOU have not purchased the land vet?
MR. SHAW-No. We have not purchased it.
MR. MACEWAN-Okav.
MR. VOORHIS-I went throuqh the same process as this qentleman did.
and they told me I could not make a house out of the barn.
- 20 -
-~^
MR. MARTIN-I'll qet a clarification from David.
MR. VOORHIS-Riqht. It was strictI v storaqe. and like the book
says. that you're allowed one livable dwellinq.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't understand why they would have told yOU that.
I mean, so many people take barns and restore them and make homes
out of them.
MR. VOORHIS-That's what I said. but I'm not the only person that
was told that. If that was a fact. that property would have been
sold a lonq time aqo. It's been vacant for how many vears. If
somebody could have made a home out of that barn. they would have
iumped on it riqht off the bat.
MR. BREWER-What if they decided. iust hypothetically. if they
decided to rip the barn down and put UP a buildinq? Would yOU have
a problem with that?
MR. VOORHIS-No. but I was told it was supposed to be strictly for
storaqe. That if vou' re interested in puttinq UP a home on the
propertv. yOU could put UP a sinqle famil v dwellinq. That's
exactly what the paperwork says.
MR. BREWER-Okav. I'm not savinq they're qoinq to. I'm iust savinq
if they decide to.
MR. VOORHIS-No. I'm iust savinq. I went throuqh the same process.
but now all of a sudden he's qot some loopholes to qet his buildinq
taken care of. where in the past. we hadn't.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Well. Jim said he'd find out about the buildinq.
Is there anyone else?
PUBLIC HEARIRG CLOSED
MR. BREWER-The only thinq we can do. we can't even table it.
MR. MARTIN-I would table the application. It's still an active
application. but the public hearinq's iust not properly advertised.
it appears.
MR. MACEWAN-Who's responsibility is it qoinq to be to re-notifv the
neiqhbors?
MR. MARTIN-It'll be ours. It was ours to beqin with.
MR. BREWER-Would somebody care to make a motion to table?
MOTIOR TO TABLE SITE PLAR NO. 58-93 FLORERCE MURPHY. Introduced bv
Craiq MacEwan who moved for its adoption. seconded bv Roqer Ruel:
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote a
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
SITE PLAN RO. 62-93 TYPE: URLISTED JOSEPH KORCIKOWSKI & LINDA
ABODEELY OWNER: KIRG SERVICE. IRC. ZORE. HC-1A LOCATIOR. EAST
SIDE OF BAY ROAD. APPROXIMATELY 200' SOUTH OF THE IRTERSECTIOR OF
BAY & OUAKER RD.. BEHIRD KIRG FUELS. PROPOSAL IS FOR A REW 3.668
SQUARE FOOT OFFICE BUILDIRG. BEAUTIFICATIOR COMMITTEE: 12/6/93
WARREN COURTY PLARRIRG. 12/8/93 TAX MAP RO. 107-1-52. 53 LOT
SIZE: .86 ACRES SECTION 179-23
EDWARD KONCIKOWSKI. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
- 21 -
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff. Site Plan No. 62-93. Joseph Koncikowski/Linda
Abodeelv, Heetinq Date: December 21. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTIOB:
The applicant is proposinq to construct a 3.688 square foot office
buildinq and associated parkinq area. The property is located on
Bav Road. is zoned HC-1A and is .86 acres in size. The property is
serviced bv municipal water and sewer. PROJBCT ABALYSIS: In
accordance with Section 179-38 A.. the proiect is in compliance
with the other requirements of this chapter. includinq the
dimensional requlations of the zoninq district in which it is to be
located. In accordance with Section 179-38 B.. the proiect was
reviewed in order to determine if it is in harmony with the qeneral
purpose or intent of this chapter. and it was found to be
compatible with the zone in which it is to be located. and should
not be a burden on supportinq public services. In accordance with
Section 179-38 C.. the proposal was reviewed reqardinq its impact
on the hiqhwavs. There was found to be no siqnificant impact on
the road system. In accordance with Section 179-38 D.. the proiect
was compared to the relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39.
The proiect was compared to the followinq standards found in
Section 179-38 E.. of the Zoninq Code: 1. The location.
arranqement. size desiqn and qeneral site compatibility of
buildinqs, liqhtinq and siqns: The buildinq is central Iv located
on the site and is of size and desiqn that fits well on the site.
Liqhtinq includes low level driveway and sidewalk liqhts as well as
liqhts that liqht UP the front of the buildinq and the proposed
siqn. 2. The adequacy and arranqement of vehicular traffic access
and circulation. includinq intersections. road widths. pavement
surfaces. dividers and traffic controls: Vehicular access is a
concern. The applicant proposed one-way traffic flow throuqh the
site with a separate entrance and exit. The exit's proximity to
the Bav/Ouaker intersection is the cause of concern. Traffic backs
UP at the liqht and impacts the abilitv of traffic exitinq the site
to make left turns. Consideration should be qiven to possible
desiqn alternatives that miqht include no left turns or eliminatinq
the separate exit and makinq the proposed entrance wider to
accommodate both inqress and eqress. 3. The location.
arranqement. appearance and sufficiency of off-street parkinq and
loadinq; Off street parkinq is sufficient. The applicant is
proposinq to construct 18 spaces and is reservinq an area that will
accommodate possible future construction of 7 or more spaces for
the required total of 25. 4. The adequacy and arranqement of
pedestrian traffic access and circulation walkway structures.
control of intersections with vehicular traffic and overall
pedestrian convenience; Pedestrian access is adequate. 5. The
adequacy of stormwater drainaqe facilities: Will be reviewed bv
Rist-Frost. 6. The adequacy of water supplY and sewaqe disposal
facilities: Property is serviced bv municipal water and sewer.
Concerns raised in Mike Shaw's letter of 12/6/93 need to be
addressed. 7. The adequacy. type and arranqement of trees. shrubs
and other suitable plantinqs. landscapinq and screeninq
constitutinq a visual and/or noise buffer between the applicant's
and adioininq lands. includinq the maximum retention of existinq
veqetation and maintenance includinq replacement of dead plants:
Landscapinq is adequate. A hedqe and some trees alonq the north
and south property lines would provide a pleasant break between
properties. buffer the adiacent properties from the proposed
parkinq and access drives and enhance the aesthetic quality of the
site. In addition. any comments made bv the Beautification
Committee should be incorporated into the plan. 8. The adequacv
of fire lanes and other emerqencv zones and the provision of fire
hydrants: Emerqencv access is adequate. A fire hYdrant is located
on Bav Road adiacent to the site. 9. The adequacy and impact of
structures. roadways. and landscapinq in areas with susceptibility
to pondinq, floodinq and/or erosion. This is not an issue.
RECOHHBBDATIOB. If the comments reqardinq access and landscapinq
are addressed. staff can recommend approval of this application."
- 22 -
MR. BREWER-Okay. and, Tom. we have notes from yOU.
ERGIREER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich. Rist-Frost. Town Enqineer. December 14.
1993 "Rist-Frost Associates has reviewed the pr01ect and has the
followinq enqineerinq comments: 1. The plan should have some
notes that clarify the intent of the qradinq indicated by spot
elevations and the SWM concept for the parkinq areas draininq to
the proposed absorption bed. 2. A note should appear on the plan
stipulatinq compliance with New York State Guidelines for Urban
Erosion and Sediment Control. 3. The SWM absorption bed concept
requires an inlet of adequate capacity to accommodate short
duration. hiqh intensity rainfall events. It is suqqested that a
simple 30" diameter. perforated CMP section with inlet qrate and
frame castinq be added to the SWM absorption bed. The SWM
absorption bed and inlet details should be added to the plan. 4.
The proposed SWM eave trench detail should be added to the plan.
Condi tional approval of this site plan is recommended from an
enqineerinq standpoint."
MR. YARMOWICH-I apoloqize to the applicant. I noted somethinq on
the plan. but I neqlected to include in my letter. Number Five. the
handicapped parkinq space should be eiqht feet wide. with an eiqht
foot wide access aisle.
MR. BREWER-Okay. and we have a letter from Michael Shaw. Corinne.
if yOU want to read that.
MRS. TARANA-December 6th. 1993. reqardinq the proposed office
buildinq 107-1-52 and 107-1-53. to Mr. Edward Koncikowski. "Dear
Edward: In reviewinq of the plans for the above mentioned. please
refer to the followinq comments in reference to the sanitary sewer
connection. 1. It may be note that there is a 16" qravi ty
sanitary sewer main alonq side the 12" force main. 2. The plans
do show no structures beinq built on the sewer easements. but don't
show if there is any chancre of elevation of the crrade in the
easement areas. 3. There are two laterals on this parcel for
connection of the sanitary sewer. One near the northeast corner
and one near the southwest corner of the proposed buildinq. The
laterals are currently staked on the property. 4. The sanitary
sewer connection must be done by a reqistered contractor with the
Department of Wastewater. This list is available upon request. 5.
An Industrial Wastewater Survey must be completed before a permit
will be issued. 6. The buildincr's internal plumbincr must have a
main line backwater valve. main line u-trap. and vent. If YOU have
any questions on these comments. please call me at my office.
Michael O. Shaw Director"
MR. BREWER-Okay. Warren County Planninq approved with the
comments I "With the condition that sicrnacre for the inqress and
eqress is denoted." And Beautification approval. and that's all we
have. Do we have someone here for the applicant?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-My name is Ed Koncikowski. and I'm representinq Joe
Koncikowski and his wife Linda Abodeely in this pr01ect. With
reqard to the comments from the Town of Oueensbury Department of
Wastewater. we have no problem with the basic concept. to comply
with these comments prior to construction of this pr01ect. It
would be considered that these elements would be incorporated into
the final construction plans. and prepared for review by the Town
Water Department. The same holds true with the reference by Rist-
Frost Associates. There are some spot elevations on the plans
riqht now. to try to develop the basic drainaqe concept. but in the
final desiqn. we will include whatever miqht be necessary to
provide clarification a~d additional detail. in terms of exactly
how these absorption beds will be constructed. Relati ve to the
Board's recommendation for landscapincr and a buffer plantincr. I'm
not sure if YOU. with this application. have seen the site plan
- 23 -
that was presented to the Beautification Committee. You may have
a COpy of it attached.
MR. BREWER-No, we don't.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-It' s somewhat different than was shown on the
oriqinal site plan. If vou'll notice. the site plan showed a
conceptual plan. The one we presented and was approved bv the
Beautification Committee was a sliqhtlv different concept. and what
we tried to do was to refocus the ma10ritv of the plantinq on the
entrance to the site. Also shown on this plan is an existinq row
of relativelY mature cedars that qO back 50 or 60 feet ad1acent to
the property on the south side. Those are actuall v on the
adioininq property owner's land. To the north side. we didn't
describe or specify any particular plantinqs. The site exit. as
proposed. will be about five feet from the Kinq Fuels property.
which is completely paved riqht UP to that site. We have no
ob1ection. thouqh. if the Board would like us to consider includinq
maybe some smaller shrubs or some hedqes alonq that roadway. We
tried to. basically focus the landscapinq on the entrance and the
front of the property. and not concern ourselves quite as much with
the development. in terms of landscapinq on that side of the
property.
MR. BREWER-How about as far as Scott's comment about access?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Yes. We respect the Board's concern for the
traffic in that area. but I would like the Board to consider not
placinq a restriction. at this time. in terms of requirinq a left
hand exit. for a couple of reasons. First of all. there are no
such requirements for the Kinq Fuels property adiacent to the
north. Anv traffic exitinq Kinq Fuels property onto Bav Road can
make a left hand turn at this point. Thev are. naturallY. closer
to the intersection than the proposed property is. In addition.
there is an entrance and exit to Shop N' Save across the street.
which doesn't have a restriction. in terms of no left hand turn. as
Stan's Seafood does not. The other concern. the other factor that
I think plays into this is the nature of the proposed business.
This is qoinq to be an office buildinq. It is qoinq to be used as
an insurance aqencv. You'll note that there are presently five
employees. There's provisions for three future employees. and it's
primaril v an in-house office structure. It's not a commercial
establishment where people would be cominq in on a reqular basis.
or on a very. very frequent basis. The employees may come in in
the morninq. may leave at noon. come back after lunch. and leave at
the end of the dav. In addition to that. there may be ten to
twenty customers that happen to come in. per dav. So we don't
feel, at this point. that there is a larqe volume of traffic that
is qoinq to have to be concerned with makinq that left hand turn.
In addition. there isn't a stackinq lane on the riqht hand side.
There is a left hand turn lane. but that doesn't beqin until we end
the property. Presumably. if the traffic is backed UP to a qreat
deqree there. people won't attempt to make a left hand turn. in any
event. So at this point we would like the Board to consider not
placinq that restriction.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Anythinq from anybody on the Board?
MRS. TARANA-To address the traffic flow. I do aqree with Staff. I
don't see what the purpose is of the one way traffic. Are YOU
qoinq to have a drive UP pay window or somethinq? Is that whY YOU
have that?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-There's a consideration. perhaps in the future.
that there may be a drive up pay window on the exit side. It's a
remote possibili tv. It's a continqencv that we would
conceptualize. We haven't shown it now. and may not ever find a
need for it.
MRS. TARANA-Mv feelinq is. with only eiqht employees. max. when YOU
- 24 -
fill the buildinq. and the number of customers. that the one way is
not really necessary. and probablY would be a better plan. because
they can iust pull in and pullout. I aqree. I don't know if we
should limit them to not. I think not makinq a left hand turn is a
qood idea, but we haven't done it with other places. and I think
maybe that's somethinq that will have to come alonq.
MR. MARTIN-I don't know if I'm so enthralled with that idea. but I
would like to see if there's any way to reduce this down to one
curb cut. I think that's a qood idea.
MRS. TARANA-Yes. I would like to see that. too, and quite honestly.
I like the plan. I like the idea that vou' re puttinq an office
buildinq.
MR. MARTIN-The only thinq I want to stress is that the applicant
may be correct in his idea that this is qoinq to be a limited use
buildinq. from the standpoint there will be no public access. at
this point in time. but who's to say. eiqht. ten, twelve years down
the road. this property may chanqe hands. The structure will be
there. and there are a lot of. as YOU know. this is a Hiqhwav
Commercial district. There's a lot of intense uses that a
structure like that could have a lot of customer traffic qoinq in
and out. Once the buildinq is established. the ownership can
chanqe hands. and therefore. the use.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Excuse me. but at that point. Jim. wouldn't the use
of the buildinq have to meet the requirements for the occupancy?
MR. MARTIN-Well. onlY if it's a chanqe in use. If it's qoinq to be
occupied. aqain. as an office buildinq. then it would not come back
before this Board.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Riqht.
MRS. TARANA-As I was qoinq to say. about the office buildinq. I
like that idea of the, sort of a transition zone between somethinq
like Kinq Fuels and the residential. what are now residential. what
is a now residential home.
MR. MARTIN-There are a lot of qood elements to the site plan that
shouldn't qO unnoted. The setback is in compliance. at 76 feet off
the road. There's a lot of qreen space UP front. The parkinq is
to the side and the rear. I mean. those are all positive elements
that's not to be taken liqhtlv. I qive the applicant credit on
that.
MRS. TARANA-Yes. I aqree with vou. and I think mv onl v concern
would be the inqress and the eqress. I iust. I'm not real crazy
about that idea. especiallY in that location.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Mavbe YOU could explain then. for mv benefit, how
one driveway. with opposinq traffic. functions better than one way
in and one way out. I quess I'm not quite sure on how that would
be an improvement?
MRS. TARANA-I think one thinq we try to look at on busy roads is
the fewer curb cuts that yoU have. off a road, the better it is.
There may be a better reason for it. but that's what I always keep
in mv mind.
MR. MARTIN-I think. as a qeneral practice. that's. it's qood
practice for the Town. especially in this situation. this far off
the intersection. I know what you're savinq about Kinq Fuels and
all that. but. to me. two wronqs don't make a riqht either. I
mean. that's why we're here. and we're trvinq to make thinqs better
and improve upon thinqs as properties redevelop. and I think this
would be an improved situation over what exists at Kinq Fuels.
which essentiallY. like on the Quaker Road side. has one curb cut
about 100 feet in ,lenqth.
- 25 -
\.... . ---
MR. BREWER-Yes. It's iust one open swath.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-I think if we were to redesiqn it. to have one curb
cut. I'm not sure how much more efficiently it miqht function. I
believe we're 20 feet from.
MR. BREWER-TwentY-five feet from the north side. forty-six from the
other.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-From the north side. so we could pick UP five feet
at the most there. We have to be 20 feet minimum.
MR. BREWER-You could shift the buildinq to the south. either way.
MR. YARMOWICH-You could certainly elect to keep the loop inside the
si te and i ust make it one road in and out. if yOU wanted to do
that.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Okay. Well. we had that as another preliminary.
earlier concept. Just on the surface. thouqh. it appeared to be a
lot of loopinq of roads. We're actually endinq UP with more
pavement as we're traversinq the site, which is now a qreen area.
MR. BREWER-Riqht.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-So. I think it effects that to a deqree.
MR. BREWER-You can eliminate the first seven spaces. put them in
the back. That would qive yOU these first seven spaces for. well.
I don't know.
MR. YARMOWICH-You kind of want to keep that handicapped spot near
the front of the buildinq. if yOU can. where the drop curve is.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-And. aqain. we do want to try to create the front
of the buildinq toward the hiqhway side. and in doinq that,
customer access should be at that point.
MR. BREWER-So what you're saYinq is yOU really don't want to
eliminate that exit?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Well. we want to the proiect. and we want to build
it to the satisfaction of the Town of Queensbury. At this point.
I'm basically tryinq to expose some of our loqic by some of our
thouqht processes. in hopes that perhaps the Board may take those
into consideration. if they haven't alreadY.
MR. STARK-I think the plan is fine the way it's presented. I think
it's well thouqht out. and I'm in favor of it iust the way it
stands.
MR. BREWER-Okay. I'll open the public hearinq. Is there anyone
here that would like to comment on this proiect?
PUBLIC HBARIRG OPBRBD
HO COHHERT
PUBLIC HBARIRG CLOSBD
MR. BREWER-We've qot to do a Short Form.
RESOLUTIOH VHBR DBTBRHIRATIOR OF RO SIGRIFICARCE IS HADE
,RBSOLUTIOR RO. 62-93., Introduced bY Corinne Tarana who moved for
its adoPtion. seconded by Roqer Ruel:
WHEREAS. there
application for:
is presently before the Planninq Board
JOSBPH KOHCIKOVSKI & LIHDA ABODEBLY. and
an
- 26 -
'',.
./
\.
WHEREAS. this Planninq Board has determined that the proposed
proiect and Planninq Board action is subiect to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal aqencv appears to be involved.
2. The followinq aqencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered bv this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Requlations
implementinq the State Environmental Oualitv Review Act and
the requlations of the Town of Queensburv.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed bv the
applicant.
5. Havinq considered and thorouqhlv analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and havinq considered the criteria
for determinincr whether a proiect has a sicrnificant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes. Rules and
Requlations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken bv this Board will have no
siqnificant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Plannincr Board is herebY authorized to execute and sicrn and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-siqnificance or a
necrative declaration that may be required bv law.
DulY adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. MacEwan
MR. BREWER-Okav. Would somebody care to make a motion?
anybodY have any stipulations?
Does
MR. MARTIN-I would like a specific plantinq plan to be submitted.
prior to. or bv a certain aqreed upon date. so we know what to hold
them to at the CO time.
MR. STARK-Do YOU want them to submit it to the Beautification
Committee?
MR. BREWER-The Beautification Committee. We can hold them to that.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. We iust have the conceptual one. We don't have
the.
MR. RUEL-The landscapinq plan?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Can we make that part of this packaqe riqht here. and
qive them your speel. Jim.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. You'll be qettinq. the applicant is on notice that
this is a matter of CO. If there's one plant missinq that's not on
that plantinq plan. or that's on that plantinq plan. YOU will not
qet your CO.
MR. MACEWAN-Thev even count tulip bulbs.
- 27 -
\.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Can we put more in there?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. More is always welcome. Less is not acceptable.
MR. MACEWAN-Is everybodY happy with the parkinq?
MR. BREWER-Corinne has one comment.
MRS. TARANA-I want to make a comment about it. because I do like
the plan. but I don't like the two driveway thinqs. and mv thouqht
is. I don't want to vote aqainst the pro1ect. because I do like it.
I like where it is. Mv thouqht is. if YOU would consider a one
way. the one driveway at this point. and if. in the future. YOU
decided to put a drive throuqh in. YOU could come back and revise
the site plan. Is that a possibility?
MR. BREWER-Yes. You can always modify it.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-The onlY thinq wronQ with that is. thouqh. the one
entrance would have to be wider than it is. than it's proposed now.
MRS. TARANA-Yes. but you've Qot employees that are qoinq to qO in
and stay probably all day and come riqht back out the same
driveway.
MR. MACEWAN-Is there a minimum that YOU use for enqineerinq for a
minimum width for a double wide driveway?
MR. YARMOWICH-The access aisles need to be 20 foot.
MRS. TARANA-Okav, and what is it on here?
MR. MARTIN-Fourteen.
MR. MACEWAN-I've qot an idea for YOU. I don't know if you're qoinq
to like it. but I worked UP an idea.
MR. YARMOWICH-Much of the area where the parkinq itself is is a 20
foot access aisle to accommodate the movement of a vehicle in and
out of a parkinq space. So that. in itself. it lends itself to two
way use. If they want to keep the circulation pattern around the
buildinq. it means a little bit different way in which they arranqe
the parkinq. and I think only the pro1ect desiqner can really focus
in on how to do that best with the proiect. but they ouqht to be 20
feet wide. if you're qoinq to have two way access on the pavement.
minimum.
MR. MACEWAN-All riqht. If he took his office buildinq. and he
moved it to the north five foot. he meets the twenty foot setback.
He could pick UP five feet on the dri vewav. and if took the
existinq.
MR. YARMOWICH-There's enouqh width there. riqht now. between the
parkinq spaces and the proposed curb. to function as a two way
access aisle.
MR. YARMOWICH-Yes. but his whole obiect. thouqh. is he doesn't want
to lose the parkinq spaces on that side of the buildinq, because
where that six foot wide sidewalk is. I'm assuminq it's qoinq to be
the handicapped access riqht there, correct?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-Yes. but obviously if YOU look at the plans. it's
fourteen foot entrance road. and once you qet into the parkinq
area. it widens out to twenty foot wide aisle space. so that.
conceivably. that road with the driveway qoinq in could be a full
twenty feet wide as well.
MR. BREWER-And not lose anythinq on the other side?
MR. MARTIN-Well. what he's savinq is you've iust qot to take the
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one southerly curb there on the entrance. the one southerlv
boundarv of the entrance and move it over six feet. and vou've done
it.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-I still maintain that this pattern works well and
effectivelv. In terms of employees. thev basicallv know how to
come in and how to leave. and it seems to me that one wav traffic
does seem to work in a lot of instances. and there are a lot of
instances of one way traffic in the Town.
MR. MACEWAN-I think what the Board is concerned about, the idea of
your flowinq traffic is fine. It works well for vou. but thev're
tryinq to alleviate is for drivers who are usinq Bay Road to have.
to be lookinq out for one more dri vewav that thev have to be
lookinq out. whether someone' s pullinq in or pullinq out. If
vou've put it down to one drivewav. it eliminates that much more of
a hassle.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-I think we recoqnize that. too. and that is a verv
valid point. What we did. in the new plantinq plan. thouqh. was to
trv to refocus. in fact. even pull the siqn next to the southern
most entrance way. and create less of a feature on the exit
drivewav. So. aqain. it mav sound qood in theorv. and hopefullv it
will prove itself out. but we did trv to address that condition in
the plantinq plan.
MR. RUEL-OnlY one drivewav is an exit. so the drivers cominq down
Bav Road are onlv concerned with one exit, reqardless of whether
two drivewavs.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes. but You'd also have cars cuttinq across the median
trvinq to qet in.
MR. RUEL-Is there an island in the middle there?
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. RUEL-There is an island?
MR. MACEWAN-Still divide the hiqhwav riqht there. It's painted.
MR. RUEL-Painted. Well. what's wronq with that? If they qO into
the painted area. they're not blockinq anyone. What's wronq with
that? Thev're not in the way of anyone. Thev can make a left turn
to enter here.
MR. MACEWAN-That's prettv well conqested UP there. What evervone' s
concerned about is 1ust makinq sure that it's.
MR. BREWER-I quess what they're savinq about left hand turns is
cominq out of here. Roqer. qoinq this way up Bav. qoinq across all
the traffic that's cominq across here. Well. they're still only
cominq out one place.
MR. RUEL-Yes. it's onl v one place. I like the idea of traffic
enterinq and leavinq and qoinq around the buildinq like that.
MR. BREWER-Reqardless of whether they have an entrance and an exit.
thev're only still cominq out one way. Thev're not cominq out two
wavs.
MR. RUEL-Yes. that's what I'm savinq. Yes. but when vou're talkinq
about curb cuts. aren't YOU talkinq about a cut that allows traffic
two ways?
MRS. TARANA-No. A curb cut is a cut in the road that allows
traffic either in and out or whatever.
MR. RUEL-Yes. both ways. in one curb cut. usuallY. like a drivewav
allows traffic both ways. Riqht? These curb cuts aren't that waVe
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They're one way.
MRS. TARANA-A curb cut is 1ust a cut in the road.
MR. RUEL-Yes. like a driveway.
MR. MARTIN-If this were a couple hundred feet further down Bay
Road. I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's 1ust the proximity
to the intersection with Ouaker Road.
MR. BREWER-But I quess what he's sayinq, Jim. no matter where yOU
put it. whether yOU put it here. the south. or the north. yOU still
only have cars enterinq Bay Road at one location.
MR. RUEL-Not two ways. not both of them. 1ust one. Two hundred
feet from Ouaker. approximatelY?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, I'd say. approximately.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-It's beyond the left turn lane. headinq north on
Bay Road.
MR. RUEL-My concern would be that. YOU show a berm here. between
the two driveways?
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-That's riqht.
MR. RUEL-I' d be concerned about the heiqht of that. and the
plantinqs. That should be kept down to a minimum. because when
cars are exitinq out of the driveway.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. It appears that he's done that in the revised
plan. here. he's qot. basicallY low qrowinq.
MR. KONCIKOWSKI-There's a revised plan that has that.
MR. RUEL-Okay. because I can't tell from this plan how hiqh it is.
MR. MACEWAN-You sold me.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Does somebody want to make a motion.
MR. MARTIN-It's a fine point. I can see his point as well. It's
a fine point. To be quite honest about it. it's rare we see a site
plan this nice.
MRS. TARANA-Yes. that's my feelinq.
MR. MARTIN-And I hate to. I'm not diqqinq in my heels here bY any
means.
MR. RUEL-I had a question. Was there a variance qranted on this
application?
MR. MARTIN-No.
MR. RUEL-Because this is one acre zoninq. riqht?
MR. MARTIN-It's a preexistinq lot. It has qrandfathered riqhts.
MR. RUEL-I see. and this is .86.
MR. MARTIN-Riqht. That's already been considered. and it qualifies
for the exception of the minimum lot size.
MR. RUEL-Okay. So. do you want a motion?
MR. BREWER-Yes. qO ahead.
MOTIOR TO APPROVB SITB PLAR RO. 62-93 JOSEPH KORCIKOWSKI & LIRDA
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ABODBBLY. Introduced bY Rocrer Ruel who moved for its adoption.
seconded bY Georqe Stark:
Whereas. the Town Plannincr Board is in receiPt of site plan
application file #62-93 to construct a 3,688 square foot office
buildincr on the east side of Bay Road near Ouaker Road
intersection; and Whereas. the above mentioned site plan
application dated 11/24/93 consists of the followinq: 1. Sheet 1
site plan. dated 11/23/93; and Whereas. the above file is
supported with the followinq documentation: 1. Encrineerincr
comments. dated 12/14/93 2. Wastewater Dept. comments. dated
12/6/93 3. Staff notes. dated 12/21/93 4. Beautification
Committee comments - 12/6/93 Whereas. a public hearincr was held on
11/16/93 concernincr the above pro;ect: and Whereas. the Planninq
Board has determined that the proposal complies with the site plan
review standards and recruirements of Section 179-38 of the Code of
the Town of Oueensbury (Zonincr): and Whereas, the Plannincr Board
has considered the environmental factors found in Section 179-39 of
the Code of the Town of Oueensbury (Zonincr). Whereas. the
requirements of the State Environmental Ouality Review Act have
been considered: and Therefore. Let It Be Resolved. as follows:
1. The Town Plannincr Board. after considerinq the above.. herebY
move to approve site plan # 62-93. 2. The Zonincr Administrator is
herebY authorized to siqn the above referenced plan. 3. The
applicant shall present the above referenced site plan to the
Zonincr Administrator for his siqnature within 30 days of the date
of this resolution. 4. The applicant acrrees to the conditions set
forth in this resolution. 5. The conditions shall be noted on the
map. 6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zonincr Ordinance and site plan
approval process. with the stipulation that the proposed site plan
be modified to meet the encrineerinq comments dated 12/14/93. and
the Oueensbury Wastewater Department comments dated 12/6/93. and
that a landscapinq plan be submitted at that time. and the drivewav
clearly be marked in and out. The information shall be submitted
before January 31st.
Duly adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. by the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
SITE PLAR RO. 63-93 TYPE: URLISTED CAR BSSBRTIALS OWNER: ROGER
G. & GBRALD J. HEWLETT ZORE: HC-1A/LI-1A LOCATIOR. EAST OF
MAZDA DBALBRSHIP OR SOUTH SIDE OF QUAKBR ROAD PROPOSAL IS FOR AN
11.600 SOUARE FOOT RETAIL PLAZA WITH 7S PARKIRG SPACBS. CROSS
REFERERCB: UV 103-1993 AV 104-1993 BEAUTIFICATIOR COMM.:
12/6/93 WARRER CO. PLARRIRG: 12/8/93 TAX HAP RO. 110-1-2.7 LOT
SIZE: 1.6 ACRES SECTIOR 179-23. 179-26
MICHAEL MULLER. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
STAFF IRPUT
Notes from Staff. Site Plan No. 63-93. Car Essentials. Meetinq
Date: December 21. 1993 "PROJECT DESCRIPTIOR: The applicant is
proposinq to construct an 11.610 scruare foot shoppinq center and a
75 space parkincr lot. the propertv is located on Ouaker Road and is
split zoned beincr HC-1A and LI-1A. The applicant received a use
variance to allow for the retail in the LI-1A zone. PROJECT
ARALYSIS: In accordance with Section 179-38 A.. the pro;ect is in
compliance with the other requirements of this chapter. includinq
the dimensional recrulations of the zonincr district in which it is
to be located. In accordance with Section 179-38 B.. the pro;ect
was reviewed in order to determine if it is in harmony with the
qeneral purpose or intent of this chapter. and it was found to be
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compatible with the zone in which it is to be located and should
not be a burden on supportinq public services. In accordance with
Section 179-38 C.. the proposal was reviewed reqardinq its impact
on the hiqhwavs. The center will have primary access from Ouaker
Road and a secondary access to the rear connectinq with property
frontinq on Dix Avenue. There was found to be no siqnificant
impact on the road system. In accordance with Section 179-38 D.,
the relevant factors outlined in Section 179-39 were considered.
The proiect was compared to the followinq standards found in
Section 179-38 E. of the Zoninq Code: 1. The location.
arranqe.ent. size. desiqn and qeneral site co.patibilitv of
buildinqs. liqhtinq and siqns: The plaza will be one story and
compatible with the area in which it will be located. Liqhtinq
will be provided bv 2 liqhts in the parkinq lot and 3 liqhts that
will illuminate the rear of the buildinq and the rear access drive.
A preliminary siqn location is proposed near the driveway from
Quaker Road. The siqn will be subiect to a separate permit. 2.
The adequacy and arranqe.ent of vehicular traffic access and
circulation. includinq intersections. road widths. pave.ent
surfaces. dividers and traffic controls: Vehicular access from
Quaker Road is always a concern. There is one access proposed from
Ouaker Road and a rear access will provide a connection to adiacent
property which has access from Dix Avenue. An internal connection
to the trianqular parcel to the east should be considered as a
means of reducinq future traffic problems on Quaker Road. 3. The
location. arranqe.ent. appearance and sufficiency of off-street
parkinq and loadinq; Off street parkinq and loadinq is sufficient.
The rear access drive will provide a loadinq area to the rear of
the plaza. Four handicapped spaces are proposed. 4. The adequacy
and arranqe.ent of pedestrian traffic access and circulation
walkway structures. control of intersections with vehicular traffic
and overall pedestrian convenience: Pedestrian traffic access is
adequate. 5. The adequacy of stor.water drainaqe facilities;
Stormwater drainaqe will be reviewed by Rist-Frost. 6. The
adequacy of water supply and sewaqe disposal facilities; Water and
sewaqe disposal will be reviewed bv Rist-Frost. 7. The adequacy.
type and arranqe.ent of trees. shrubs and other suitable plantinqs.
landscapinq and screeninq constitutinq a visual and/or noise buffer
between the applicant's and ad10ininq lands. includinq the .axi.u.
retention of existinq veqetation and .aintenance includinq
replace.ent of dead plants; In order to provide a screen between
Ouaker Road and the plaza and the adioininq property additional
landscapinq should be provided alonq the front and west property
lines. 8. The adequacy of fire lanes and other e.erqency zones
and the provision of fire hydrants; Emerqencv access is adequate.
9. The adequacy and i.pact of structures. roadways and landscapinq
in areas with susceptibility to pondinq. floodinq and/or erosion.
There is a small area alonq Ouaker Road that is a potential Armv
Corps of Enqineer requlated wetland. The Corps. accordinq to the
applicant. indicated that the wetland would be covered bv a qeneral
permit and no mitiqation would be required. RECOHHEHDATIOHI In
order to accommodate a landscaped buffer between the property to
the east consideration should be qiven to shiftinq the plan to the
west; as proposed there is only about 5 feet between the rear
access road and the property line. Because of the proximity to
Quaker Road and Dix Avenue. consideration should be qi ven to
providinq for an internal connection between this property and the
one at the intersection of Dix and Quaker as per Section 179-66.1
of the Zoninq Code."
MR. MARTIN-And yOU have the variance resolution from the Zoninq
Board attached. two of them.
MR. BREWER-Do we have anvthinq from Tom?
EHGIHEER REPORT
Notes from Tom Yarmowich. Rist-Frost. Town Enqineer. Dated December
14. 1993 "Rist-Frost Associates has reviewed the proiect and has
the followinq enqineerinq comments: 1. At a minimum a note should
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appear on the plan stipulatiner conformance with New York State
Guidelines for Urban Erosion and Sediment Control. 2. Spot
elevations should be provided to establish SWM infiltration basin
volumes as shown on the plan calculations. Conditional approval of
this site plan is recommended from an enerineeriner standpoint."
MR. BREWER-We have a Beautification Committee approval. A letter
from Mike Shaw saviner he has no comment.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. It's not within the sewer district. Warren County
approved. as well. without condition.
MR. MULLER-Good eveniner. Mv name is Michael Muller. I'm counsel
for Car Essentials. To mv left is Michael Manero. who's one of
owners of Car Essentials. and John Goralski is to mv rierht. and
he's with Richard Jones Associates. I'd like John to present the
plans to YOU because he's drawn the plans. and I think that's
probab1v the best way to approach it.
JOHN GORALSKI
MR. GORALSKI-Okav. I eruess the best way for me to do this is to ero
throuerh some of the comments and address what's been brouerht UP.
First of all. as far as the enerineeriner comments are concerned. we
can add the erosion control measures. and the stormwater retention
areas. That's not a problem. I would like to first note that the
comments about the potential for a wetland on the property. to
clear that UP. I have spoken to the Armv Corps of Enerineers. We
will be in the process of erettiner a final decision from them. We
do not have a final decision from them at this point. Because. in
all likelihood the wetland is under one acre. if there is actually
a wetland on the site. it will come under the erenera1 national
permi t. and we won't have to ero throuerh a public heariner or
anvthiner else. but to the Armv Corps. but we are workiner throuerh
that process rierht now.
MR. MACEWAN-How loner do yOU think before vou'11 hear from them?
MR. GORALSKI-Well. they told me some time in June or Ju1v. As is
noted. we are eroiner to have a siner1e driveway on Quaker Road built
to Department of Transportation specifications. There'll also be
an access to the property that fronts on Dix Avenue. That property
is also planned to be purchased bv the owners of this. the people
who are purchasiner this propertv. and will be used mainly for
deliveries and that type of thiner. As far as providiner a
connection to the trianeru1ar piece that's to the south of this. we
can show an easement. if YOU look to the Quaker Road side of the
buildiner. where the road turns around the back of the buildiner. we
can provide a future easement. 20 feet wide. eroiner to the property
line. that can be utilized when the next property is developed to
connect the parkiner lots. As far as the additional trees aloner
Quaker Road. we've met with the Beautification Committee and
discussed that and aerreed that we would place five additional
Locust trees between the parkiner area and the property line on
Quaker Road to soften the impact of the buildiner.
MR. MARTIN-John. those additional areas. the center island in the
parkiner lot and the areas around the perimeter. are those to be
seeded and errassed and maintained?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, that's all eroiner to be errassed and maintained.
MR. MARTIN-Okav.
MR. GORALSKI-I think those were the maior comments.
MR. RUEL-I have a eruestion. Could you show me on that map YOU have
there exact1v where Dix Avenue is?
MR. GORALSKI-No. It's not on the map.
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--,'-
MR. RUEL-It's off of that?
MR. GORALSKI-There's another property here.
MR. RUEL-How many feet away would it be from your property.
MR. BREWER-That's the piece that we 1ust subdivided for Hewlett?
MR. GORALSKI-No. This property is.
MR. RUEL-Approximatelv how many feet between that property and Dix?
MR. GORALSKI-Dix Avenue? Well. there's a buildinq there.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-I would say it's probablY a couple of hundred feet.
MR. RUEL-And then YOU would have access throuqh that property. if
YOU purchased the property.
MR. GORALSKI-Riqht. Thev're both continqent upon the other.
MR. RUEL-I see. Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-Buvinq them toqether.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Mv other question is, do YOU have an elevation plan.
or do YOU have some sketch. we can see what the buildinq looks
like?
MR. GORALSKI-At this point? No. we have not qotten to that point.
The buildinq will have a qabled roof. It will be probably a clap
board stYle sidinq. There will be a five brick covered walkway
alonq the front of the buildinq, for pedestrian circulation. At
this point. the best I could compare it to is probablY in the same
style. say, as French Mountain Commons. that type of thinq.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Will YOU have a sketch later?
MR. GORALSKI-Well. at some point. We're not qoinq to the expense
of qettinq into the desiqn of the buildinq until we qet into our
site plan review. We've established the footprint for the
buildinq. and as I said. the basic theme will be a qabled roof.
with. shinqled qable roof. with probably clap board sidinq.
MR. RUEL-It's 1ust one story?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
MR. MULLER-This is the parcel that we are purchasinq that's on Dix.
MR. RUEL-And where are YOU riqht now? Riqht there?
MR. MULLER-Yes.
property on Dix.
Quaker.
Now here's a survey map of the same piece of
We are purchasinq this. as it extends UP to
MR. RUEL-That's riqht here then.
MR. MULLER-No. The piece of property that you're addressinq riqht
now is in this square riqht here. The piece of property that YOU
asked me about. that's on Dix. is trianqular in shape. Here it is.
MR. RUEL-So the access would be back this way.
MR. MULLER-Yes. it would.
MR. RUEL-Okav. Thank YOU very much.
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MR. MACEWAN-The comment's already been brouqht UP. There's more
plantinqs alonq the Ouaker Road buffer there. the entranceway. I'd
like to see somethinq a little bit more there. That was already
addressed.
MR. GORALSKI-We've discussed that with the Beautification
Committee.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. STARK-You mentioned a five foot overhanq at the French Mountain
Commons. French Mountain Commons' overhanq is about ten feet.
MR. GORALSKI-No. no. I'm 1ust saYinq. I'm comparinq it to the
archi tectural style of French Mountain Commons. I'm not sayinq
it's exactly the same.
MR. STARK-You mentioned yours was qoinq to have a five foot
overhanq?
MR. GORALSKI-A five foot walkway in the front of the buildinq. yes.
MR. RUEL-It's like a porch. riqht?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. It's a covered area so that people can qet in
and out of the weather. or whatever. as they're walkinq alonq the
front of the buildinq.
MR. BREWER-You're 1ust basicallY. what are YOU qoinq to do? You're
qoinq to have a store there with stereos. and what?
MR. MULLER-No. 1ust for retail. it's leased space. that is that it
could be different tenants. and most likely will be.
MR. BREWER-Is it qoinq to be the same business that you have on
Quaker Road now?
MR. MULLER-It will be moved. yes.
MR. BREWER-You'll move that business.
MICHAEL MANGO
MR. MANGO-Either into that buildinq. or the other buildinq on the
other side. one or the other.
MR. BREWER-Okay. So that necessarilY will house your business that
YOU have now, where YOU install.
MR. MANGO-Yes. We'll either be in this buildinq here. or in the
other buildinq on the other parcel.
MR. BREWER-If YOU chose to qO in the other buildinq. that will come
for site plan review?
MR. MARGO-Yes.
MR. MULLER-No.
MR. MARTIN-That's riqht. Yes. There was a similar use in there.
There was retail use in there before.
MR. BREWER-What is in the buildinq that you're talkinq about. that
YOU may qO into?
MR. MULLER-There's two occupiable spaces. One's vacant.
MR. BREWER-Who's in the other one?
MR. MULLER-They seem to sell parts. industrial.
- 35 -
'-'"
MR. BREWER-All riqht. Statewide Industrial, they sell bearinqs and
all that kind of stuff.
MR. GORALSKI-Riqht.
MR. RUEL-What is Car Essentials? What do yOU do?
MR. MANGO-What do we do? Car stereos, cellular phones.
MR. RUEL-You make installations? Where in this area do yOU make
the installations?
MR. MANGO-Well. if we take the other buildinq on the other
property. there's already a qaraqe and evervthinq there.
MR. RUEL-Not here?
MR. MANGO-We make take that. If we take this and we rent that.
then we'll put an overhead door into this. in the back.
MR. RUEL-In the back.
MR. MANGO-Yes. It won't be out front.
MR. GORALSKI-It will be accessed from this roadway in the back.
MR. RUEL-So yOU would be doinq this work either in the existinq
buildinq in the other lot. or in the back part of this buildinq.
MR. BREWER-Riqht.
MR. MARTIN-Do yOU have an anticipated idea of how many tenants this
could potential Iv hold. or is it qoinq to be flexible?
MR. GORALSKI-The buildinq is desiqned so that the spaces can be
broken UP a number of different ways. Tvpicallv. a buildinq this
size vou' re probabl v lookinq at five tenants breakinq it UP.
ProbablY that center portion would be one anchor tenant. and then
either side would have two other tenants. but yOU could probablY
have seven.
MR. RUEL-Are they movable walls. or?
MR. GORALSKI-No. The way we were planninq on the oriqinal desiqn
is that the structure will be such that a partition wall will not
be bearinq walls. So the partition walls could be put anywhere.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Does anybody have anythinq else? Okay. I'll
open the public hearinq. Is there anyone here who would care to
comment on this?
PUBLIC HEARIRG OPBRBD
RO COHHBRT
PUBLIC HBARIRG CLOSBD
MR. BREWER-We've qot to do a Short Form.
RESOLUTIOR WHBR DBTBRHIRATIOR OF RO SIGRIFICARCB IS MADB
,RBSOLUTIOR RO. 63-93. Introduced bv Corinne Tarana who moved for
its adoption. seconded bv Craiq MacEwana
WHEREAS. there is presently before the Planninq Board an
application for: Roqer G. & Richard J. Hewlett. for CAR
ESSER.,IALS. and
WHEREAS. this Planninq Board has determined that the proposed
proiect and Planninq Board action is subiect to review under the
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State Environmental Quality Review Act.
NOW. THEREFORE. BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal aqency appears to be involved.
2. The followinq aqencies are involved:
The Army Corps of Enqineers
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Requlations
implementinq the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the requlations of the Town of Oueensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Havinq considered and thorouqhly analyzed the relevant areas
of concern and havinq considered the criteria for determininq
whether a proiect has a siqnificant environmental impact as
the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official
Compilation of Codes. Rules and Requlations for the State of
New York. this Board finds that the action about to be
undertaken by this Board will have no siqnificant
environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planninq Board is
hereby authorized to execute and siqn and file as may be
necessary a statement of non-siqnificance or a neqative
declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. by the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Okay. Would somebodY care to make a motion?
MRS. TARANA-I thouqht the Board. on site visits. had a question
about the Quaker Road?
MR. BREWER-I think that. after lookinq at it. I think it's
adequate. and with the other exit they're qoinq to have in the
back. it should help them.
MRS. TARANA-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-And remember YOU have a lot of improvements cominq at
that intersection with the K-Mart.
MR. BREWER-Riqht.
MRS. TARANA-OkaY.
MR. MARTIN-Don't forqet the 20 foot easement to the ad ioininq
property.
MR. BREWER-They will show it on the map.
make a motion?
Does somebody want to
MOTIOR ~O APPROVB SI~B PLAB RO. 63-93 CAR BSSBR~IALS. Introduced
bY Roqer Ruel who moved for its adoption. seconded by Craiq
MacEwan:
For a 11.610 square foot retail plaza. conditions include addinq
trees to the front of the parkinq area, and meetinq the enqineerinq
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comments dated 12/14/93. and the placement of a 20 foot easement in
the site plan. as well in the deed. and continqent on the approval
of the Armv Corp of Enqineers wetlands permit.
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
SITE PLAR RO. 61-93 RICHARD EGGLESTOR/THOHAS STIMPSOR DISCUSSIOR
ITEM
MICHAEL MULLER. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
MR. MULLER-This would have been heard last week.
MR. BREWER-This is qoinq to be strictlY a discussion item. because
we can't act. because it wasn't advertised.
MR. MULLER-That's riqht. We understand that. The discussion that
we'd like to share with YOU since we last met. and since I promised
YOU that I would. that we would come back with a buildinq plan. the
buildinq plan that I came back with. the parkinq plan that I came
back with can never be. The southern side of the property is a 25
foot riqht-of-wav that is to the benefit of the neiqhbor behind
this property. Linda Hart. to the east of this property. So if we
take all the cars off of that. and indeed we have. Since we last
met here. Mr. Eqqleston and Mr. Stimpson were sued. The request
for relief was that they not park on or obstruct the riqht-of-wav
in any way. and they have complied with that. What we have, we
have many questions. and some proposals. I think that it's
necessary to now impact on the property and take over what would be
the northerly side of the property. and if YOU have that survey map
in front of YOU. what it proposes is that the applicant wants to
put a stockade fence alonq the perimeter of the property. It would
first start at the north and westerly corner of the existinq
buildinq. and it would qO due north to the northerly line. that's
50 feet. It would then continue on the northerly perimeter of the
property. that's the vacant lot. it says for sale or for lease. It
would continue alonq until it came to a line runninq north. and
that fence aqain. that fenced line would run north to the most
northerlY ioq in this property and aqain encompass that. the
stockade fence would continue on riqht to the most easterlY portion
of the property where the fence would terminate.
MR. BREWER-So. in effect. you're qoinq to here? Just like that?
MR. MULLER-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Okav.
MR. MULLER-We would suqqest to YOU that seven cars can be parked on
the southerlY side of the buildinq nose pointed in. or rear of the
car pointed in. In other words. they would be on the north/south
axis. seven cars. The lead car. the very first car. the front
corner of that buildinq could be the handicapped parkinq spot.
MR. BREWER-You're showinq six.
MR. MULLER-Well. see. okay.
MR. BREWER-And the handicapped in front, of the buildinq.
would be the seventh?
That
MR. MULLER-No. We're scratchinq here trvinq to fiqure it out. Mr.
Eqqleston drew a maximum amount of spaces there. Mr. Eqqleston
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drew this out. concePtually. to show YOU the maximum amount of
spaces that he has on this lot. We're willinq to move them around
in any manner that seems to be suitable. We've tried to work this
out. with Mrs. Hart. in terms of seekinq permission or purchase of
what's on the south. and that's not possible. So it's out of the
question. Okay. So now we're qoinq to impact on the northerlY
side of the buildinq. My quess is that when YOU impact on the
northerlY side of the buildinq. that YOU want us to be behind the
cover. You don't want to see what's qoinq on in there. So we're
prepared to qive YOU a stockade fence all alonq that area. I'm
troubled by this section here. It's been so carefully marked, on
parkinq.
MR. BREWER-Where are you?
MR. MULLER-I'm on 179-66B. the bottom of the paqe it says 18038.
The COpy I'm usinq. it says. amended 12/17/1990, 7/29/1991 by Local
Law 14-1991. is that the one?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MULLER-Okay. "Off street parkinq spaces shall ,be required for
all buildinqs constructed. extended and enlarqed in use. This
buildinq." This buildinq. we haven't constructed anythinq.
extended anythinq. or enlarqed it.
MR. BREWER-Read the rest of the sentence.
MR. MULLER-"After the effective date of this Chapter."
MR. BREWER-All riqht.
MR. MULLER-We haven't done that either. So our very first arqument
is that when YOU have a preexistinq buildinq. that we haven't
constructed. extended or enlarqed. we have chanqed the use.
There's no doubt about it. Okay. but we have not enlarqed a
buildinq that was in use after the effective date of the Chapter.
We haven't constructed it. We haven't extended it. So we're
suqqestinq to YOU very desperatelY and in qood faith to try to
comply with YOU. we don't feel that we have to meet the modern
setback. the modern access for that reason that I iust suqqested to
YOU. I have some other suqqestions to YOU. which is that I don't
think the Zoninq Ordinance here seems to make a distinction between
parkinq a car. as we iust did in the last plan for a retail
location in Hiqhway Commercial. and the actual facility itself.
iockeyinq the cars around in storaqe. What YOU need to know, here.
is that these cars that are behind the fence are actuallY brouqht
there by the operator of the establishment and they're stored
there. They're not in marked parkinq spaces. They're not on a
paved area. We don't intend to beautifY inside the fence. We
don't intend to allow customers to qO inside the fence. We don't
intend to drive cars on the inside of here. other than to move them
in and out. They are literally stored there and kept out of public
view. That's our proposal. Now the one's that are out. and in
public view. Mr. Eqqleston suqqests to YOU that YOU can park six
cars on the most northerlY corner of the property. in front of the
buildinq to the west. and YOU had proposed that that was employees.
MRS. TARANA-Is that 41 throuqh 46 that you're talkinq about?
MR. MULLER-That's 41 throuqh 46.
RICHARD EGGLESTON
MR. EGGLESTON-It will iust be employees. Monday throuqh Thursday.
seven a.m. to five thirty. iust workinq hours.
MR. MULLER-One. I'd suqqest to YOU is handicapped. That seems to
be the best place for it. What happens to two throuqh seven are
cars that are disabled. non movable.
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MRS. TARANA-Does that mean iunks?
MR. EGGLESTON-Vehicles that had damaqe done to it that had to be
towed in and physicallY dropped there.
MR. MULLER-Maior damaqe.
MR. EGGLESTON-Maior damaqe.
MR. MULLER-We are allowed to use the 25 foot access to travel on.
but we cannot park on it.
MRS. TARANA-Dropped there for how lonq? I mean. they're iunk cars
that are not qoinq to be fixed?
MR. EGGLESTON-No. they're not iunk cars.
MR. BREWER-Cars that are qoinq to be repaired.
MRS. TARANA-Thev will be repaired?
MR. EGGLESTON-Thev're fixable vehicles. Thev're iust vehicles. as
far as the mobility of the vehicle. it's hampered bv some sort of
damaqe. so that they have to be easily accessible to us to move
them.
MR. BREWER-Okav. So what you're savinq is YOU don't really have to
have any parkincr spaces. except for the emplovees. Is that
correct. Jim?
MR. MULLER-What I'm savincr to YOU is YOU people can certainlY
manacre our parkincr. tell us where YOU want it and how YOU want it,
and the maximum amount of cars. but I'm sayinq that I don't believe
that we have constructed somethincr. extended somethincr or enlarcred
somethincr. it's not croincr to require us to have 20 foot clear width
access paths in and out and between our vehicles. We're askincr not
to do that. That is that I think that's what YOU would be doincr.
if we were here havincr constructed. extended or enlarcred an
existincr buildincr. but we didn't. I think the buildincr' s been
there since the mid 70's. and we have not chancred it. and it has
not chancred. Cars have been parkincr there. Different businesses
were in the zone certainly broucrht customers there. There seemed
to be no parkincr plan there. This is the first attempt to make a
parkinq plan. The other thincr is that we're workincr with a smaller
piece of property than has ever been here before. The history of
that is that Mr. Pasco. who owned the property. in mv opinion. he
illecrallY subdivided the property. That is that he took somethincr
that was to at least be the minimum one acre size. and he cut it UP
so that there are two nonconformincr lots. each less than one acre.
One was foreclosed on bv the Albanv Savincrs Bank. purchased bv Mr.
Ecrcrleston and Mr. Stimpson from the Albanv Savincrs Bank and one
purchased directl v bv Linda Hart from Mr. Pasco. the illecral
subdivider.
MRS. TARANA-Which properties are we talkincr about now?
MR. MULLER-Do YOU have that survey map?
MRS. TARANA-Yes. Which ones are YOU talkincr about?
MR. MULLER-Do YOU see there where it says. buildinq?
MRS. TARANA-Yes.
MR. MULLER-That's Ecrcrleston/Stimpson. That was the first portion
conveyed bv Mr. Pasco. On the ricrht it says. lands retained bv
Merwin Pasco?
MRS. TARANA-That's now owned by Hart?
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MR. MULLER-Yes. That was all. at one time. one piece of property
owned. from recollection. I would say '86. 1986.
MRS. TARANA-And how biq are those pieces of property?
MR. MULLER-The Eqqleston/Stimpson parcel is about eiqht tenths of
an acre and the Hart parcel is about seven tenths of an acre.
MR. MACEWAN-How does that effect this Board?
MR. MULLER-Well. I qave yOU a fact, which is was an illeqal
subdivision.
MR. MACEWAN-I'm askinq you. thouqh. how does it effect this Board?
MR. MULLER-I quess you're supposed to do somethinq about illeqal
subdivisions.
MR. MACEWAN-And what year was that done in?
MR. MULLER-Eiqhtv-six.
MR. BREWER-Before the zone was chanqed.
'86?
What was the zoninq in
MR. MULLER-It was one acre. but I cannot tell yOU that I know for
a fact that it was Hiqhwav Commercial.
MR. BREWER-If it was done before the zone chanqed. can we find out
what it was?
MR. MARTIN-As I recall. from '82 to '88. the Town did have
Subdivision Requlations. to be sure. but I believe that they were
minor subdivision requlations in effect. You'd still have to qO to
the Planninq Board. but it was like a one step process. for
subdivisions of for or fewer lots.
MR. MACEWAN-But if you're savinq there's nothinq we can do about
it.
MR. MULLER-I don't think yOU can. other than yOU have to take it
into account that he didn't create the difficulty.
MR. MACEWAN-But he knew the situation with the lot when he
purchased it for the intent of his business.
MR. MULLER-Absolutelv. and that's why we're not parkinq on it.
MR. MACEWAN-But when he came to this Board. and part of the
approval for his site plan was that he told us he was qoinq to have
no more than 12 cars stored on that side. and all disabled vehicles
that were to be repaired were qoinq to be stored inside the
buildinq.
MR. MULLER-No. we didn't say that.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes. he did.
MR. MULLER-I think if yOU look at your records. it says that we
were qoinq to store the maximum amount of vehicles inside the
buildinq. We wouldn't have cars outside the buildinq.
MR. MACEWAN-And no more than 12 cars outside the buildinq.
MR. MULLER-Okav. Yes. we did say that.
MR. MACEWAN-And he told us also that disabled vehicles. vehicles
that were unsiqhtlv. were qoinq to be stored in the buildinq. I
recall him. I won't debate that with you. but I recall that very
clearly. because that was one of mv concerns.
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MR. MULLER-Okay. I'll stand on the record there. Whatever that
record says. Our interest is to keep the unsiqhtly vehicles under
cover and away. You can't expect us to draq them in every niqht
and draq them out every day.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't think that was our intent, ever. My intent.
anyway was never to do that.
MR. MULLER-I don't want to mislead you. It wasn't our intent to
say to yOU that if it's a qhastly lookinq vehicle. that we're qoinq
to draq it in at niqht and draq it out in the day time.
MR. BREWER-I still. I'm bothered by this parkinq here. Jim.
Granted. he's only lookinq at one part of it. and there's three
thinqs that it mentions here about parkinq. and that item that yOU
talked about was pertaininq to safety for pedestrians.
MR. MACEWAN-What was the zoninq number?
MR. BREWER-Paqe 18038. but it starts on 18037.
GARFIELD RAYMOND
MR. RAYMOND-If this is qoinq to be a discussion. can we
participate? Are yOU qoinq to open this up?
MR. BREWER-We'll let yOU comment when we qet done.
MR. STARK-Last week. yOU had the minutes of that oriqinal site plan
approval. didn't you?
MR. MACEWAN-Way back when we had the minutes of it. yes. but I
don't think I have them now.
MR. STARK-Mr. Muller. I think one of the main bones of contention
with the Hart's is that Mr. Eqqleston and Mr. Stimpson didn't live
UP to a lot of the stuff concerninq storaqe of stuff in the back
and everythinq. We were there a couple of weeks aqo. and all these
thinqs. accordinq to the minutes. which I wasn't here then. but it
said that they would be picked up bi-weekly. and nothinq would be
stored outside like empty drums and empty paint cans. and all this
stuff, and when we were there. the place was a dump outside. I
mean. since then. I think Jimmy said that somebodY came and picked
UP the drums or somethinq like that.
MR. EGGLESTON-Yes. We deal with Safety Clean. They come every two
weeks. As far as. a lot of those drums were brouqht there. they
were at Jeckel and Sons Honda where Tommy. my partner. oriqinallY
was. and Mr. Jeckel wanted to them out of there. So those drums
and eyerythinq really came from the other buildinq and were brouqht
over on a short term basis. 1ust to qet them away from Mr. Jeckel.
They are disappeared. as of now.
MR. STARK-You've qot a qUY cominq every two weeks to pick UP
everythinq from the back?
MR. EGGLESTON-Safetv Clean is supposed to come every two weeks and
take care of all our. anythinq. hazardous waste and such as that.
and we've qot a 1unk dealer that usually comes there every week and
a half to two weeks to pick UP.
MR. STARK-Takes care of broken fenders and thinqs like that.
MR. MACEWAN-But does Safety Clean come every two weeks on schedule.
or is it a situation where YOU call them when YOU need a pick up?
MR. EGGLESTON-No. they come.
MR. STARK-And then a 1unkie comes and takes all the parts away.
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MR. EGGLESTON-Takes all the waste. We 1ust qive it to him. and he
qoes down and sells it to somebody.
MR. MULLER-Admittedlv. we may have not done a qood 10b on that.
because I also looked back and I couldn't fiqure out what happened
to our plan. on the storaqe of thinqs.
MR. EGGLESTON-As far as the drums qo. that was really short term
dumped on us bY the situation we had rectified with Mr. Jeckel.
LINDA HART
MRS. HART-Beinq a Hart. I think my biqqest bone of contention is I
had to hire an attorney, and incur court costs to qet the people
not to park on my riqht-of-way. Every sinqle day. from the edqe of
the fence to the end of mv property. there wer~ 18 to 23 cars.
every day. If they didn't park there. I wouldn't even be here
today. I had to hire an attorney and pay court costs.
MR. BREWER-I don't want to qet into a personal arqument. but. I
mean. I can understand if yOU had to. did yOU ever have to qO back
there and try to qO back there and couldn't qO back there?
MR. RAYMOND-Well. I think. I'm her attorney. and I'll address that.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. RAYMOND-I think that I have an opportunity to address the Board
as it relates to that.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Is there any other questions from anYbodY on this
Board? Jim. did yOU look at the parkinq?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. There's nothinq on the use schedule that relates
to auto repair facilities. Usually. the standard is one space for
every two employees in other Sections of the Ordinance. and in
terms of customer clients and thinqs like that. this is one of
these thinqs. it's like when we had video rental stores and thinqs
like that. We iust don't have a use to qO bY. and the billiard
hall is another one. We had no real standard to qO by. What's
been historical Iv done in the past is there's been an exchanqe and
a neqotiation as to what's the appropriate number of spaces. I
think it is a relevant point that this is not your typical parkinq
lot scenario. This is storaqe of cars while they're under repair.
So there doesn't have to be the vehicular movement and types of
thinqs like that yOU would need in a normal parkinq lot.
MR. MULLER-We're here to neqotiate. to follow your instruction.
That's whY I reallY am not proposinq that to YOU as our concrete
plan.
MR. BREWER-I look at this plan. and I see every available inch used
that's available to put cars. and naturally you're qoinq to qO for
the most YOU can qet. but I think we've qot to come to some kind of
a compromise and don't use every inch of this space. and maybe not
say 12 or 15. but maYbe reach a number between. We said 12 before.
and then we said 20. and now you're cominq back with 46.
MR. MULLER-Well. he's drawn the maximum amount there.
MR. BREWER-I understand that, but I quess what I'm savinq is, I
don't want to see YOU put a car on every inch of the space that's
available. 1ust because it's there. and it's only mv opinion. maybe
YOU should qO with 35 or 30. I don't know. I don't know what the
number is.
MR. MULLER-Could I ask the Board. as it is a discussion. how do YOU
feel about two throuqh seven havinq disabled vehicles there?
MR. STARK-Non drivable themselves YOU mean?
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MR. MULLER-Riqht.
MRS. TARANA-I thouqht those. we had discussed that before. that
they were qoinq to be where yOU couldn't see them?
MR. MULLER-Well. yes. and we don't have a leqal riqht to do that.
That is that was proposed when they were down on the riqht-of-wav.
MRS. TARANA-You can't put them any place else on that property?
MR. BREWER-I think what the idea of the two throuqh seven is.
Corinne. in mv mind. is the doors are on that end of the buildinq.
so they can qet them in and qet them out.
MR. MULLER-Thev're towed in. Thev're dropped there.
MRS. TARANA-And how do you qet them from there into your buildinq?
MR. EGGLESTON-We have a set of dolly wheels, plus we have a winch
on equipment we have inside the qaraqe.
MRS. TARANA-So. if they were in the back. yOU couldn't still dollv
wheel them or winch them. or whatever you do to them?
MR. EGGLESTON-Probablv have to qet a tow truck and actuallY
physically brinq them around.
MRS. TARANA-Don' t YOU have to do that no matter where vou' re
parked. if these are disabled cars?
MR. BREWER-Not if they're riqht bv the door. and they've only qot
to qO 20 feet, or 30 feet. where if they had to qO here. it would
be probablY a iob to maneuver them to qet them all the way into
here.
MR. STARK-EspeciallY since that's on pavement.
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MRS. TARANA-I wanted to ask another question about the parkinq
spots. 22 throuqh 28. How do YOU qet in and out of those parkinq
spots?
MR. EGGLESTON-It's not parkinq. It's storaqe. The fact that those
cars are butted UP aqainst each other is our problem to move them
as cars come in and the cars are to be repaired. Like Mr. Muller
said. this is a maximum space that we use to. I'm not savinq that
I'm never qoinq to have to utilize that amount of space. The Board
wanted to arrive at a number, and this was a startinq point. Like
he said. we're neqotiable.
MRS. TARANA-So the onlY parkinq spaces. movable cars and employees.
are 41 throuqh 46.
MR. EGGLESTON-And One.
MRS. TARANA-And One. the handicapped.
MR. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MRS. TARANA-AlI the rest of this is qoinq to be cars that are iust
waitinq to be worked on?
MR. EGGLESTON-I would like to think so. but.
MR. STARK-Tim. why don't we ask Mr. Ravmond what he thinks Mrs.
Hart wants. what she'd like to see done on that.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. Well. she'd like to see them qone. I can
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tell you that riqht now.
MR. STARK-Just for a happy medium here.
MRS. TARANA-I think yOU ouqht to raise this point riqht here. about
the snow.
MR. BREWER-What would yOU do with the snow?
MR. EGGLESTON-As far as what?
MR. BREWER-As far as. if yOU had 46 spaces. what would yOU do with
the snow?
MR. EGGLESTON-We have permission from Mr. Dickinson next door to
push snow on his property.
MR. MULLER-He has a portion of his property fenced in.
MR. RAYMOND-How could you push snow onto that piece of property?
MR. RUEL-Isn't there a direct relationship between the faci1itv
that yOU have to repair the automobiles and the number of cars that
are wai tinq for parts? I mean. what's the sense of havinq all
these cars out there? You can have 100 cars. You have the
faci1itv in the bui1dinq to process these cars in a time1v manner.
so that yOU don't pile them UP out there. It seems excessive. the
number of cars outside the bui1dinq.
MR. EGGLESTON-Well. I think losinq. I'm iust. it was a number.
MR. BREWER-He came UP with a number. and he wants to. it's like
se1linq yOU your car. Roqer. You want to start it hiqh and work
down. not start low and work uP.
MR. RUEL-I know. I'm iust trvinq to understand.
MR. EGGLESTON-I don't know how many vehicles, like I said the last
time. for me to say there's qoinq to be specifica1lv this amount of
cars there at any one time is very difficult for me to do. We use
the space here as allowed. and we've accommodated this man v cars.
Foreseeab1v. would I ever be doinq this kind of business? I doubt
it. but I don't know.
MR. RUEL-We're not talkinq about parkinq spaces.
about storaqe. riqht?
We're ta1kinq
MR. EGGLESTON-Riqht.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. EGGLESTON-This summer. unbeknownst to us. it was a real shock
to us the amount of business we did do. I mean. at one time we had
30. 31. 32 vehicles there. I don't think any of them remain much
more than two weeks.
MR. RUEL-Is there a lonq waitinq period for parts. on averaqe?
MR. EGGLESTON-Around Christmas there are, but most of the time.
MR. RUEL-A couple of weeks?
MR. EGGLESTON-No. not even that.
MR. RUEL-So cars should be able to move pretty fast. So we'll cut
the spaces way down. riqht. because they're movinq fast.
MR. MARTIN-Rich. was there ever any idea qiven to elimination of
this U-shaped drive and maybe havinq 1ust one way in and yOU could
qet some more space that way?
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--
MR. EGGLESTON-No. we didn't.
MR. MARTIN-You have two curb cuts riqht now. You consolidate that
into one entrance. Just off the top of mv head. would that help in
any way?
MR. EGGLESTON-Like I say. I'm open to whatever suqqestion that yOU
and the Board miqht have. I mean. this was 1ust a startinq point.
I know that everYbodY was lookinq for a point to start on. and I
quess this is a point to start on.
MR. MARTIN-The other thinq that Rich talked about to me. while he
was in my office. is plantinq of Scotch Pine trees alonq this
northern perimeter. in addition to the fence. That's what those
black dots indicate, I believe.
MR. MULLER-The difficulty that I have with that. I mean. that's
qreat. beauty wise. but you're allowed to put a fence on the
perimeter.
MR. MARTIN-I was 1ust sayinq. well. we said. pull the fence back
three feet from the property line. and put the trees. then. in that
dimension. That's belts and suspenders. I know. but this seems to
be a circumstance that may warrant that.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't recall. are there any overhead doors facinq
that northern section where yOU want to store a lot of cars?
MR. EGGLESTON-No.
MR. RUEL-They're all on the south side. all of them?
MR. EGGLESTON-All on the south side.
MR. BREWER-Is there anythinq from anybody else on the Board?
MRS. TARANA-Let me 1ust qO back to the snow removal aqain. If yOU
were to take all the snow from where 22 and 28 are. you're saYinq
yOU could pull that all down and move that into the Cane property
that's across the riqht-of-way? Can yOU qO across the riqht-of-way
with your snow?
MR. MULLER-Yes. We're permitted to use the riqht-of-way. but we
cannot obstruct it.
MR. RAYMOND-You cannot leave snow on it.
MR. MULLER-We're not leavinq snow on it.
MR. BREWER-What happens if nobodY's in the buildinq and it snows?
Do yOU remove it? I don't want to qet into an arqument. that's
all. either way.
MR. MULLER-There's animosity here. and we're tryinq to solve it.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. What I would suqqest. I think maYbe. 36. 37.
38. 39 and 22 throuqh 35. eliminate them. and then YOU can have the
rest. I quess what I'm sayinq is. riqht UP aqainst that fence.
MR. EGGLESTON-I'll take it. Mr. Brewer.
MR. BREWER-Well. that's 1ust my suqqestion.
Board.
I'm not the whole
MR. MULLER-I didn't understand. You said 36. 37. 38. and 39. take
out 40?
MR. BREWER-Take out 36. 37. 38. 22 throuqh 35.
MRS. TARANA-I see what the problem is. You've qot two 36. 37. 38's
- 46 -
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'-
and 39's. So you've qot more than 40 places here. You've Qot 36.
37. 38. 39 alonQ the fence. Then you've Qot 36. 37. 38. 39.
MR. EGGLESTON-I was havinQ a bad day.
MR. BREWER-So 22 throuqh 40. that's my sUQqestion. I don't know
what everYbody else feels.
MR. RUEL-You're takinq that out?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MULLER-Does the Board have a problem with him parkinQ in that
northerly section. that ;oq?
MR. MARTIN-That 65 foot wide ;OQ.
MR. MULLER-FortY-five bY sixty-five. behind the fence.
MR. BREWER-I Quess what I'm saYinq is. you're QoinQ riqht UP to the
side of the restaurant.
MR. MULLER-No. there's a lot there.
MR. EGGLESTON-There's a lot in between there. Mr. Brewer.
MR. BREWER-There is?
MR. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MRS. TARANA-I don't honestly remember. I thoUQht that would come
riQht UP to the Hart's property.
MR. MARTIN-You have pictures. don't you?
MR. RAYMOND-It comes UP to the dumpsters in the back.
MR. BREWER-That's why I said eliminate 22 throuqh 35. and 36. 37.
38. 39 YOU said you'd take it. All riQht. I'm qoinQ to Qive Mr.
Raymond a chance to speak. Otherwise. we're Qoinq to be here until
midniQht.
MR. RAYMOND-First of all. I Quess it's a technical issue. but I'm
not Quite sure as to why we're here. This came about. We had no
knowledQe of it. There was a site plan approval. That site plan
approval that was issued was conditioned upon the riQht-of-way.
that issue beinQ resolved. That issue was never resolved. and the
site plan approval that YOU have approved. this Board has approved.
said that they had 12 parkinQ spaces. and those 12 parkinQ spaces
were upon the riQht-of-way. It was supposed to be conditioned that
Mr. Martin take a look at it and make sure that it was resolved.
and it wasn't. So what YOU have before YOU is a site plan approval
that has been approved. but is reallY non functional. I talked to
Paul Dusek concerninq that. and Paul indicates that. it's fine.
They can issue a site plan approval. but if they can't comply with
that site plan approval then it's no lonQer a valid site plan
approval. and they can no lonQer comply with it. because we have a
restraininQ order which prohibits them from parkinQ on that 25
riQht-of-way. which was allowed. they were allowed to do. That's
the first issue. So I don't know if we're back here to re-address
the existinQ application. and if we are. this is such a deviation
from that initial application. that a whole new process has to
start over.
MR. BREWER-That's exactlY what we're trYinq to do.
MR. RAYMOND-Well. you've Qot to advertise. You've Qot to have
hearinQs and such. and the other issues that I have.
MR. MULLER-Let me ;ust address that. because I think. that's not an
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-'
issue anymore. I submitted an application. and I state there on
the record that it's qoinq nowhere. He's absolutely correct that
we can fulfill that. Therefore. I wrote this Board a letter
savinq. would yOU please table it. because we were sued. and we
cannot fulfill that. what I had proposed for last Tuesdav. I saw
Jim Martin the followinq day. and he explained in simple terms that
we were in the doq house. and that we would have to come before
this Board and address these issues. and that's why we're here. We
have a pendinq application. There's no doubt about it. and I'm
trvinq. in the discussion. to find out what will pass. so that I
can qO back and draw it and qive it to you.
MR. RAYMOND-Is there a pendinq application? I don't know. because
when I talked to Jim Martin's office. they told me that there was
not a new application. That the application was one qoinq back to
the initial application.
MR. BREWER-There was an application. I looked at it when I siqned
the aqenda. After we okayed the aqenda. they called and asked for
it to be tabled. We had discussed it last week and said. no. we
won't table it. We want them back here. because it's been several
months. We want to qet it taken care of. I went back to the
office. Thev said they didn't advertise it. So I said. we'll
still have them come for discussion. and we'll do it in Januarv.
because I didn't want to qO to Januarv. and then end UP where we
are riqht now. and then qO into Februarv.
MR. RAYMOND-Well. I'm iust curious. if it's a new application.
MR. BREWER-There is a new application.
MR. RAYMOND-This is a new application.
MR. MULLER-No.
MR. RAYMOND-This is why I have it dated. it was filed on November
17, 1993. If that's the application that I'm here, that we're
talkinq about. we've qot the wronq owners of the property. has not
qone to the Planninq Board. where it's marked that it has. has the
wronq tax map number on it. There's a number of problems that deal
with that application. So. maYbe they're technical problems. but
I can't address the issues unless we have a proper application. As
far as we're concerned. at this point in time. they're operatinq
that business down there without a site plan approval. Thev're
operatinq it illeqallv.
MR. BREWER-No. Thev have a site plan approval. They iust haven't
complied with it. That's. enforcement is not our. we have nothinq
to do with enforcement. That is Mr. Martin.
MR. RAYMOND-I know that.
MR. BREWER-And that is whY we called them back. so that we could
qet it straiqhtened out. so that they will complY.
MR. RAYMOND-And we've been here. I've qot minutes of three
different meetinqs. and three different times. The first one was
for the approval process. and they indicated that there was no way
in heck that they would require more than 12 cars.
MR. BREWER-Riqht.
MR. RAYMOND-This is a type of business where they qO in and out.
Thev don't need them to sit around. The next meetinq was. well.
lets find out what's qoinq on here. because the Hart's showed UP
and said there was a problem with the easement. and then there was
some questions concerninq. from this Board. as to why wasn't there
enforcement. That was referred to Paul Dusek and Mr. Martin.
Nothinq ever happened with that. I even had conversations. I've
been UP here. I've met with Paul Dusek. I've met with Mr. Martin.
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..../
I've met with Hr. Hatin. and each of those. they iust say. well.
we've qot a pendinq application. and mv point is that they can keep
filinq. amendinq. doinq whatever they want to do. but as of this
point in time. the site plan that they have in effect is not
workinq and is not leqal.
HR. BREWER-I aqree with yOU 100 percent.
MR. RAYMOND-And so somethinq. Humber One. ouqht to be addressed as
it relates to that.
MR. BREWER-We have no way to enforce anvthinq. Our hands our tied.
The enforcement is Hr. Martin.
HR. MULLER-We have spent a qreat deal of time discussinq
enforcement. and I'm representinq the applicant to say to yOU that
we're trvinq desperatelY to comply. We're available here at this
discussion. We're willinq to adopt what YOU say to us YOU want to
see. take it back and draw the plan so I can present it in Januarv.
So we'll talk a qreat deal more about enforcement. but can't we
iust try to comply.
MR. STARK-Garfield. the purpose of the discussion. too. is that Hr.
Eqqleston and Mr. Huller. to find out what would make the Harts
happy so they can incorporate that into the site plan. when they
make the application in Januarv for Februarv's meetinq.
MR. BREWER-No. this month. in Januarv.
HR. RAYMOND-Let me address that. First of all. aqain. I've talked
to Mike. Mike's aqreed. they're not qoinq to block or obstruct in
anyway. as far as the riqht-of-wav qoes.
HR. HULLER-You did a qood iob.
MR. RAYMOND-And YOU did a pretty qood iob on that. Secondly. is
the. YOU alreadY addressed it. and it's deal with this stuff that's
in the back. If YOU look at the stuff in the back. and
periodicallY. YOU qO there. vou' re qoinq to find the stuff is
lavinq out there. It stays there for a period of time. The other
issue is. in spite of what Mike says. as far as it relates to the
statute. Hr. Martin can address this, when YOU define the parkinq
space. there is a Oueensburv Statute. it not on Iv says a place to
park your car. but it also says a place to store your car. The
word "storaqe" is used in that Section. and if YOU qO on to the
additional Sections. it says with any parkinq space they have to be
at least 180 square feet. and it qoes on. if YOU qO into the
addi tional Sections. the miscellaneous Sections deal with off
street parkinq desiqn. and that's what we're here about. We're
talkinq about off street parkinq desiqn. You need a 20 foot road
access to each parkinq space. and that should be addressed here.
The whole purpose of site plan is to address how this buildinq. and
what they're offerinq is qoinq to effect the rest of the
neiqhborhood. The desiqn that they have here today is nothinq more
than a iunkvard. You've qot 40. 50 cars parked in there. and YOU
know that that's a small lot. and it cannot accommodate that. Bav
Road is a hiqhwav. and this would take away. the fact of puttinq UP
some kind of a screen. I don't know if you've been in a iunkvard
area. or been here before. we're back dealinq with that. Thev're
not the best thinqs to look at. and I think it's qoinq to create.
what they are proposinq here is qoinq to create a real problem for
Bav Road. and I think that the parkinq space, and as I say. Mr.
Martin can adiust that. but it clearly states that you've qot to
have a 20 foot road access to each parkinq space. parkinq space as
defined as storaqe of a vehicle.
MR. BREWER-And I think what I suqqested to Mr. Eqqleston. that that
would be provided if they eliminated those spaces.
MR. RAYMOND-I really don't think so.
The last map that they
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provided to YOU was not really drawn to scale, and when we did it
to scale. and found out that there was about six feet of an overlap
into the easement area.
MR. MULLER-If we discuss all previous maps. we're not qaininq any
qround here. because we would iust like.
MR. RAYMOND-I'm iust addressinq that I don't think that. if YOU
draw them to scale, with 180 square feet for each parkinq space.
MR. BREWER-They'll know that when they do it to scale.
MR. RAYMOND-That's riqht.
MR. MARTIN-Wasn't this done to scale. Rich. these?
MR. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-These are to the existinq standards. riqht?
MR. EGGLESTON-There's 50 feet on each side of the buildinq. north
and south.
MR. RAYMOND-Well. that's not what our survey said.
MR. EGGLESTON-The lot's 140 feet wide. on the street. The buildinq
is 40 feet wide. There's 50 on the north. and 50 on the south.
MR. MARTIN-Well. in terms of the use. the use is an allowed use in
the zone. It's a permitted use upon site plan review and approval.
So. from that standpoint. further UP Bay Road. yes. it is an office
corridor. but in this particular section of the road. on this
particular lot. this is an allowed use. It is in compliance with
zoninq. with site plan review and approval.
MR. BREWER-Okay. I said what I wanted to see. those cars
eliminated. I'm qoinq to qO riqht down the line and see what
everybodY else wants. and then we'll end it. Craiq?
MR. MACEWAN-Well. I'd like to see the parkinq spots one throuqh
seven qone. and moved out front. so they're perpendicular to the
buildinq. with spots 41 throuqh 46 qone, and 22 throuqh 35 qone.
MR. BREWER-WhY would YOU want disabled cars in front of the
buildinq?
MR. MACEWAN-Not disabled cars. No. Not disabled cars whatsoever.
MR. BREWER-Where do YOU want them to put them?
MR. MACEWAN-Those could be employee parkinq cars. customer cars
that are cominq in to qet estimates or whatever. but not storaqe of
any vehicles whatsoever.
MR. MULLER-I quess the problem there is that's where the vehicles
qO in.
MR. MACEWAN-That's where the vehicles qO in? What do YOU mean?
MR. MULLER-That's where the doors are.
MR. MACEWAN-No.
south.
The doors are over on the side. are facinq the
MR. MULLER-That's correct.
MR. MACEWAN-I'm talkinq about movinq those parkinq spots that he
was talkinq about for handicapped and for employees. one throuqh
seven. to the front of the buildinq. parkinq perpendicular to it.
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--,'
MR. MULLER-The buildinq beinq 40 feet across. you're qoinq to qet
four spots there. and if yOU put a handicapped in there. you're
qoinq to qet three. tops.
MR. MACEWAN-How do yOU fiqure? I don't see that.
MR. MULLER-Well. you're puttinq them riqht in front of the
buildinq. riqht?
MR. MACEWAN-Riqht here.
MR. BREWER-Craiq. I don't understand whY you'd want.
MR. MACEWAN-To keep that corridor totally open on that side.
MR. BREWER-Why?
MRS. TARANA-WhY would you want those non movable vehicles in the
front?
MR. MACEWAN-That's not what I said. I said that they would be
mobile vehicles. not stored vehicles, parkinq for customers cominq
in. stoppinq in.
MR. BREWER-One throuqh seven YOU mean?
MRS. TARANA-One throuqh seven on there are non movable vehicles.
MR. MACEWAN-I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thouqht YOU said the
employees would parkinq there.
MR. BREWER-No. the employees would be parkinq UP here.
MR. MACEWAN-I stand corrected.
MR. RUEL-Forty-one throuqh forty-six.
MR. MACEWAN-Are e.ployees. Okay.
MR. MULLER-Fully operable. licensed motor vehicles.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay. Sorry.
MR. RUEL-The reason one throuqh seven is there. I think. is because
of its access to those doorways that are on that side of the
buildinq.
MR. BREWER-Exactly.
MR. MACEWAN-I quess my bone I have with this is that that's what.
it was qoinq to be 12 cars before. and there's been upwards of
al.ost 40 there now. If he says he's qoinq to have seven there
now. and he hasn't been able to complY with it before. how can we
be assured that he's qoinq to do it now? That's the question I've
qot for YOU.
MR. MULLER-We (lost words) we're not complYinq because we don't
have 12 spaces where we represented to YOU there would be 12. We
don't.
MR. MACEWAN-Well. whose fault is that?
fault.
It's not this Board's
MR. MULLER-I'll suqqest to YOU that's exactly how it came about.
that is that when we asked the previous owner if we could park on
the riqht-of-way. his answer was yes. okay. he had created the
riqht-of-way. When we asked the owner previous to him. who was the
illeqal subdivider. his answer was no. and Mrs. Hart is riqht. and
we're staYinq off of the riqht-of-way. We didn't create that.
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,/
MR. MARTIN-What about if we could qet an elimination of the
northerly most entrance there. and yOU pick UP some space there.
aqain. it's the same arqument we used before in the office
buildinq. earlier toniqht. applies here. to some deqree. I mean.
yOU could pick UP some space there. and the other thinq I would
suqqest. what if we ran iust a 20 foot lenqth of fence off the
south corner of the buildinq. to screen one throuqh seven. a 20
foot lenqth of stockade fence to screen that.
MR. BREWER-What are yOU savinq. eliminate this curb cut here?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. the northerly most curb cut. and shrink that center
island. See how it's a curve shaped center island now between the
two curb cuts?
MR. BREWER-Now you're talkinq until sprinq to do that.
MR. MULLER-That's not a bad idea.
MR. MARTIN-And then I'm savinq remove the pavement from the
northerly most entrance and return that to qreen space. and then
square that off. so yOU qet. yOU pick UP some room for a drive
aisle and some parkinq spaces in the front there. I'm not savinq
for disabled cars. but for employee parkinq. because I have a
concern about. especial Iv in the front there. parkinq cars on
unpaved area. Over time. you're qoinq to really rut that UP. and
You're qoinq to.
MR. RUEL-That's unpaved. from 41 to 46?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. It's unpaved. It's qrass area.
MR. EGGLESTON-See. this really is the situation that we didn't
really plan on havinq a problem. but we do.
MR. MARTIN-I would iust keep the front for employee. or. like yOU
sav. customers cominq in to check on the status of a car or
somethinq like that.
MR. MULLER-I'm trvinq to nail down the fence to keep the cars that
are disabled out of the direct siqht. If yOU put a 20 foot
stockade fence there. it will. that line that's alreadY been
surveyed is 48.78 feet from the corner of the buildinq to Mr.
Cane's property. the southerly line of his parcel. So. 25. which
would be the riqht-of-wav. subtracted from 48.78. will allow the
fence. and we can use the riqht-of-way.
MR. RAYMOND-If I can have another comment. eiqht and nine. (lost
words) parkinq spaces. I believe that they have a storaqe. qarbaqe
receptacles there. I don't know how they could even park in it.
MR. EGGLESTON-There's two vehicles riqht there now. adiacent to
that.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Lets not cut them down to 20 aqain. and then
we're qoinq to be back here in three months.
MR. RAYMOND-Well. I think we're startinq out at 12. I mean. that's
what the Board approved in the approval.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. We started at 12.
MR. RAYMOND-And the Board was very adamant about that. and we were
very concerned that they were qoinq to have more than the 12.
MR. MULLER-We told YOU that we thouqht we'd need 12. but it's
nowhere in the Ordinance that says that that's it. a maximum of 12.
MR. MARTIN-The other thinq I would suqqest is maybe removinq 22
throuqh 28 and 36 throuqh 40 as shown.
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MR. BREWER-Yes. we said that.
MR. MARTIN-No. vou said 22 throucrh 35.
MR. BREWER-And 36 throucrh 40.
MR. MARTIN-I'd sav leave 29 throucrh 35. and remove 36 throucrh 40
and 22 throucrh 28. and I'd also call for the stockade fence to be
stained a forest crreen. Hev. listen. vou're into it now. so vou
miqht as well nail it all down. Forest crreen. and I'd call for the
trees to be planted. too.
MR. RAYMOND-Wouldn't that be referred to the Beautification. or no?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. run it throucrh the svstem. but.
MR. MULLER-You tell us.
MR. MARTIN-Go from here. and take it to the Beautification.
MR. BREWER-I don't know if it's necessarv to stain the fence forest
qreen.
MR. RAYMOND-I iust think that if vou have that fence. I mean. if we
allow this. it's qoinq to be such an evesore on Bav Road.
MR. MARTIN-Well. the thinq vou have to remember. Garfield. this is
an allowed use. So we're in the necrotiation phase here as to what
is an acceptable form of this use. It's not a cruestion as to
whether thev can have an auto repair facilitv on this site.
MR. RAYMOND-I understand that. but vou can restrict. and vou can
have a buffer area. You can recruire that the v have certain tvpes
of buffers. It doesn't have to be a fence. It could be some kind
of tree lines. It could be somethincr like that. but if vou cret a
stockade fence. vou've seen these fences. Thev're six to eiqht
feet hiClh.
MR. BREWER-Six feet.
MR. MARTIN-It can't be over six feet.
MR. STARK-Thev could have trees on the other side of the fence.
MR. BREWER-All riClht. Lets let us Clet toqether what we want. and
then we'll tell vou what we want. and then we can some time qet
home toniqht.
MR. RUEL-I iust have one cruestion of this Clentleman. What is vour
maior obiection. the number of cars. or the fact that it's that
tvpe of an endeavor?
MR. RAYMOND-Well. we can't reallv obiect to the fact that this is
here. because it is a leqitimate use on the propertv. Our maior
endeavor is to limit it to the number of vehicles. First of all.
was the riClht-of-wav. Thev've addressed that. It's eliminated.
Secondlv is that we don't want a lot of bad cars iust sittincr down
there so it looks like a iunk vard.
MR. RUEL-Okav. All ricrht.
for. what. 12 cars?
Thanks.
The oriqinal site plan was
MR. BREWER-Twelve.
MR. MULLER-Ricrht.
MR. RUEL-Twelve cars. Okav. Then mv recommendation would be that.
I have no obiections to the location of one throuqh seven and
fortv-one throucrh fortv-six. However. I would limit the number of
vehicles in the rest of the area to a total of 27 vehicles. and if
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YOU eliminate. you've qot 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. it leaves more
than that. I think we should limit. come UP with a number. Fortv-
six is ridiculous.
MRS. TARANA-There's 27. There's one throuqh seven. eiqht and nine.
ten throuqh twenty-one and six.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. Roqer came UP with the same number I did.
Corinne. and what do YOU say?
MR. STARK-I'd like to hear from Mrs. Hart.
MRS. TARANA-I have a question I would like to ask the attorney for
Mrs. Hart. Could I ask YOU a question? What happened with the
odor problem? I thouqht that was a maior issue. Is that over and
done with?
MR. RAYMOND-No. It still is a maior issue. but the problem is.
from what I understand. that they have qotten whatever approvals
are necessary to qet. UnfortunatelY. it can smell bad. It doesn't
mean it's unhealthY. and that's basically what YOU have. somethinq
that smells bad. but it does not meet certain standards.
MR. RUEL-It meets OSHA requirements. apparently.
MR. RAYMOND-Yes.
MR. RUEL-And it's non toxic. It may have an odor.
MR. RAYMOND-It's a nuisance.
MR. MULLER-We have a certificate to operate. admission point. and
the certificate says as follows. bv the way. there's no standards.
that is that they do say that special conditions. should
siqnificant new scientific evidence from the recoqnized institution
result in a decision bv DEC that lower ambient pollution levels
must be established. it may be necessary to reduce emissions from
this source prior to the expiration of this certificate. If any
filterinq method is used. a particular control must be maintained
on a reqular basis. accordinq to manufacturers recommendations.
MR. RUEL-This is a Stewart Warner booth?
MR. EGGLESTON-No. Stewart Warner couldn't put the roof in there.
due to the heiqht of the ceilinq.
MR. RUEL-Are some of these paints toxic?
MR. MULLER-Thev're toxic.
MR. RUEL-And the man that does the spravinq. does he use outside
air?
MR. EGGLESTON-Yes.
MR. RAYMOND-That's one of the problems that my client has. is that
with the discharqe of the toxins. and they've qot. durinq the
summer. they have the fans to cool off the kitchen area.
MR. RUEL-You have a restaurant?
MR. RAYMOND-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Do YOU ever burn the food. bad odors. send over to him?
MR. MULLER-No. Thev're qood cooks. There's no problem.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. Georqe. what do YOU think?
MR. STARK-Well. what number did YOU come UP with. Garfield?
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MR. RAYMOND-I came UP with 35. You have seven on the side. then
you have eiqht and nine in the back. then yOU have six in the
front. There's fifteen. then if we qO to the side. and start with
ten. you have sixteen. seventeen. eiqhteen. nineteen. twenty.
twentv-one. twentv-two. twentv-three. twentv-four. twentv-fi ve.
twenty-six. twenty-seven. and then we qO over to twenty-nine. and
you have twentv-eiqht. twenty-nine. thirty. thirty-one. thirty-two.
thirty-three. thirtY-four.
MRS. TARANA-No. We said those were out.
MR. STARK-Thirtv-four. So you're savinq you'd be happv with that?
MR. RAYMOND-I think that's excessive.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. What I would say is like Jim iust showed me.
Eliminate. square this off here. where 43 and 44. the line 43 and
44. straiqhten that out. put these six spaces riqht here. If YOU
straiqhten this out and put these spaces here. okay. leave these
here.
MR. RUEL-This is open area?
MR. BREWER-Yes. Leave one row here. leave them. forqet eiqht and
nine and leave them. Well. I said not in the beqinninq. but. Lets
put it that way. You come back with that plan. and if we have to
cut. we can cut from there.
MR. STARK-What about the fence in between?
MR. BREWER-And we can tell them we want the fence.
MR. STARK-No. Lets qet it nailed down. so when he comes back. we
can approve it or not approve it.
MR. BREWER-Yes. Well. we've already said that. All riqht.
Eliminate these. We're qoinq to draw this line here. riqht.
MR. RAYMOND-The problem that you're qoinq to have with that. we
even considered that, where are they qoinq to put their snow?
You've qot qravel that's not blacktopped. You're qoinq to have
vehicles that are qoinq to be movinq in and out. How are they
qoinq to qet them in and out of there? You're qoinq to have mud
holes. That whole area is not blacktopped. None of that is
blacktopped.
MR. RUEL-No. I know. We can see it. This is blacktopped.
MR. RAYMOND-Only that.
MR. RUEL-This and this.
MR. RAYMOND-Riqht.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. RAYMOND-But you're qoinq to have problems with snow removal.
Where are they qoinq to put the snow?
MR. MULLER-Garfield. it's not a mystery where we're qoinq to put
the snow. I keep tellinq yOU we're qoinq to put it on the next
door neiqhbor's lot.
MR. BREWER-You have to understand. They have to come back to site
plan review. and we can deal with that issue. We're qoinq on this
thinq forever here. and we want the fence. and you're qoinq to
close this. correct?
MR. MULLER-Yes.
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MR. BREWER-And what else did we say?
MR. MULLER-You wanted a stockade fence.
MR. BREWER-You're qoinq to put a fence here.
MR. STARK-He can't put a fence until April now. or May.
MR. BREWER-They can put it in. It's not that hard. You're only
puttinq a four inch hole in the qround. The frost isn't in the
qround yet.
MR. MARTIN-The frost isn't in the qround yet.
MR. RUEL-You're qoinq to put a fence there?
MR. BREWER-To screen these seven cars.
MR. RUEL-How will they qet in and out of there?
MR. MULLER-They can still. there's an access. yes.
MR. RAYMOND-Could we also have a determination as to whether or not
he has to have 180 square feet for a parkinq space. and they have
to be accessible bY a 20 foot riqht-of-wav.
MR. BREWER-Yes. You'll have to ask Mr. Martin. This was iust a
discussion.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I see where you're qettinq that from. Garfield.
It's in the parkinq area definition.
MR. BREWER-So we're set.
MR. RAYMOHD-Riqht now. the site plan approval applies to Mrs.
Hart's property.
MR. STARK-Accordinq to this tax map number.
MR. BREWER-Okay. He'll chanqe it.
MRS. TARANA-And at this point. the old site plan is in effect. and
they should be in for 12 cars?
MR. BREWER-That's riqht. and we have nothinq to do with that.
MR. MULLER-I'm qoinq to qive YOU the amended plan. and what's the
deadline for this month?
MR. BREWER-No. It's a whole new application. We discussed that.
and I thouqht YOU said YOU were qoinq to. a whole new application.
MR. MULLER-I did. but you want a brand new piece of paper and a
fifty dollar check? Is that what you're lookinq for. alonq with
this plan?
MR. BREWER-I'm not lookinq for that. no.
MR. MULLER-I ìust want to know.
MR. STARK-Are YOU qoinq to submit this in January for February.
MR. MARTIN-No. for January. You've qot. next week's the deadline.
Next Wednesday. a week from tomorrow's the deadline.
MR. BREWER-And you're lookinq for a whole new application?
MR. MARTIN-I'd like a whole new application.
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MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-So we have a properly advertised public hèarinq and all
that.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MULLER-I'll show it to Garfield before I even submit it.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. We're done?
MR. MARTIN-That would be very qood. to have this submitted
informallY between the two parties involved. so the thinq that come
in is seen.
MR. STARK-Linda. if Mr. Muller submits his plan to Mr. Raymond.
will that make YOU happy. if he has to rule on it. whether it's
approvable?
MRS. HART-It will make me happy if yOU say YOU may park 32 cars and
they only park 32 cars. I will never come in front of yOU aqain.
That's all I'm askinq for.
MR. BREWER-If we say the v can only park 32 cars. and that's their
approval.
MRS. HART-And YOU say. it's not your iob to make sure they don't.
I've qot to see this qentleman. and he won't answer calls.
MR. MARTIN-That's not true. I will dispute that UP and down.
AnYbody who tries to call me. I ca~l them back. I've qot the phone
records to prove it. That is an out riqht not true. I will not
stand for that comment. because I work too hard to let that slide.
You call me. I'll call YOU back.
PETITION FOR ZONE CHANGE NO. 9-93 RECOMMENDATION ONLY
BAKER OWNER: SAME ^S ABOVE PROPERTY INVOLVED: 36 DIX
CURRENT ZONING: LI-IA PROPOSED ZONING. HC-IA OR PC-1A
NO. 110-1-1.25 (TABLED AT 12/14/93 HTG.)
DONALD
AVENUE
TAX HAP
MARK SCHACHNER. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
MR. SCHACHNER-Good eveninq. I represent. actually. the proposed
purchaser of the property in question. Al Bovchuk. The property is
owned by Don Baker. who is the owner of the business called
Northeast Welders Supply. which was the commercial business
formerl y located on this property . Basically. the property. I'm
sure YOU can see in the application there. both the plot plan and
the tax map shows where the property is located. It's on Dix
Avenue. iust shy of the intersection of Dix and Quaker. and it's an
area that we believe is rapidly becominq a very commercial area.
The application is for the Town Board. obviously. for the rezoninq.
and it's in front of you all. the Planninq Board. for your advisory
recommendation about the proposed new zoninq. It's currently zoned
as liqht industrial. althouqh it's not really beinq used'as liqht
industrial. but when the rezoninq was done in 1988. that's how it
was zoned. alonq with some of the surroundinq properties as well.
It's been used as commercial previously. specifically from 1987
until earlier this year. or late ' 92. It was alreadY used
commercially. and we seek to qet that formalized. so to speak. bv
havinq it actually zoned commercial.
MR. MACEWAN-W~at did Northeast Weldinq do?
MR. SCHACHNER-Northeast Weldinq. as I understand it. are not a
welder. If anyone knows more about it than I. You'll know better
exactly what these thinqs are. but they sold. on a retail basis. to
welders.
MR. STARK-It's like ~aYlor Weldinq.
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MR. SCHACHNER-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-They weren't a fab shop? They didn't do fabrication?
MR. SCHACHNER-No. no. not manufacturinQ.
MR. BREWER-They sold tanks and valves and QaQes.
MR. SCHACHNER-Valves, masks. tanks. hoses.
MR. MACEWAN-They were retail?
MR. SCHACHNER-Correct, they were retail.
MR. STARK-What's Boychuk QoinQ to do with it?
MR. SCHACHNER-I'. not sure. That's why we're lookinq for rezoninQ
as opposed to variance. Most likely some sort of home furnishinQs
related store like a furniture store or liQhtinQ or he owns an
existinQ carpetinQ.
MR. BREWER-So why would that have to be HiQhway Commercial?
MR. SCHACHNER-Well. it's HiQhway Commercial or Plaza Commercial are
the two zones that appear to allow that type of use. and aQain.
he's reallY not certain. He's a contract vendee. He likes the
site. He likes the buildinQ. There's been no bites at this for
the liQht industrial use. The property's been marketed bY one of
the realtors. The property has been marketed previouslY as liQht
industrial with no bites at all. Some bites as a possible retail
commercial. and now we're not iust a bite at it. we're actuallY
contract vendees. There is a contract with Mr. Boychuk to purchase
the property. Obviously. it's continQent upon the rezoninQ. and
that's why we're here. In addition to the past use as commercial.
it seems clear to us anyway that the type of area that we're
talkinQ about is alreadY somewhat commercial and is certainly
becominQ predominantly commercial. That's true of both Dix Avenue
and Ouaker Road. and especially the intersection. Some of the
adiacent or nearby commercial uses that exist already are the Mazda
auto dealership. PSM Autobody Warren Electric SupplY. the Ouaker
Road Carwash. and obviously there is a K-Mart that's cominQ in.
iust a few feet away. For what it's worth. from the standpoint of
vour advisory recommendation to the Town Board. which your role
here. some people in the PlanninQ and ZoninQ ,field sav that what
we're proposinq. which is a commercial retail. is actuallY less
intrusive or less intensive than the existinQ zone. liqht
industrial. My own personal feelinQ on that frankly. is to some
extent. there are kind of six of one. half dozen of another. I
mean. the area is very commercial alreadY. We're talkinq roads
that easily handle the commercial use. certainly on our site. which
is onlY one acre. and obviously. we're not talkinq about a Qiqantic
retail commercial center similar to K-Mart in any way. and it iust
seems like it's an appropriate rezoninq. In addition to the K-
Mart. the ZoninQ Board has qiven use variances. recently. for other
nearby properties to have them be retail commercial. We think it
fits in pretty nicely with the evolution of this area.
MR. BREWER-I don't have a problem with Plaza Commercial. What is
your preference. Hiqhway or Plaza?
MR. SCHACHNER-I understood the preference. marqinallY. to be
HiQhwav Commercial. whichever one is the more flexible.
MR. BREWER-It's the uses they're lookinQ for. really.
MR. MARTIN-The thinq that predominantlY separates the two are auto
related uses. and we all know what kind of problems they can cause.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. and that's not contemplated. for what it's
worth. but the Plaza Commercial. as I ~ecall. has it's own list.
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MR. MARTIN-It does.
MR. STARK-He' s not qoinq to be demolishinq that buildinq and
puttina UP a new buildina.
MR. SCHACHNER-No. usinq the same existinq buildinq.
MR. MARTIN-It would be my recommendation for the Plaza Commercial.
as opposed to the Hiqhway Commercial.
MR. BREWER-Mine too. only for the simple reason. riqht across the
street. they 1ust rezoned that to Plaza Commercial. and yOU can see
a trend happeninq. where it may happen riqht down the road.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. We don't have any problem with that.
MR. BREWER-That would be my recommendation.
MR. MARTIN-You all have our Staff Notes. I don't think there's
much point. Have yOU read them? Do yOU want them read into the
record? Do yOU want me to read the "Summary and Conclusions" out
of that. Tim?
MR. BREWER-Yes. That would be fine.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
STA!'I' IRPUT
Notes from Staff. Petition 9-93. Donald Baker. Meetinq Date& "A.
PROJBCT DBSCRIP'IOR The applicant is proposinq to rezone a 1 acre
parcel located on Dix Avenue from LI-IA to either HC-1A or PC-1A.
The property is approximatelY 800 feet west of the intersection
with Ouaker Road. The property has an existinq 5.600 sauare foot
buildina and an associated 3.800 square foot parkinq area. It is
serviced bY municipal water. BXIS'IRG LARD USB CHARACTBRISTICS
The land uses in the area include larae and small scale commercial.
and larqe and small scale liqht industrial. The property is
surrounded by the LI-1A zone~ across Dix Avenue is zoned PC-IA. C.
ZORB CHARGB ARALYSIS 1. What need is .et bY the proposed chanqe
in zone or new zone? The applicant states that commercial use of
the property benefits the owner. applicant and the Town. The
applicant does not indicate what needs are beinq met with the
rezoninq. 2. What proposed zones. if any. can .eet the stated
need? Since the applicant did not indicate what needs will be met
with the rezoninq. this question cannot be adequately answered. 3.
How is the proposed zone co.patible with ad1acent zones? The
property is surrounded on three sides by LI-1A and across the
street is PC-1A. In qeneral. liqht industrial zones are compatible
with hiahway commercial zones. 4. What physical characteristics
of the site are suitable to the proposed zone? The site has an
existina buildina and parkinq area. The buildinq has a loadinG
dock and what appears to be a larqe storaqe area. Because of the
loadina dock and storaqe area. the buildinG would be more suitable
for an industrial use. The size. shape and proximity to municipal
services is suitable for both industrial and commercial zoninq. 5.
How will the proposed zoninq affect public facilities? The
proposed zone should not affect public facilities. 6. Why is the
current classification not appropriate for the property in
question? The current zoninq is appropriate for the property. The
property is located in an area of the town that is liqht industrial
and has been historically an industrial area. 7. What are the \
environ.ental i.pacts of the proposed chanqe? The potential
environmental impacts include an increase in site qenerated
traffic. 8. How is the proposal co.patible with the relevant
portions of the Co.prehensive Land Use Master Plan? The Land Use
section of the Town Comprehensive Plan states that one of the Goals
of the plan include the need to redefine liqht industrial zones in
areas north of Glens Falls to reflect chanqes in land use~ policies
include locatinq industrial development in areas which are easilY
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developable. accessible to ma10r arterial and do not compromise the
natural resources of the town. The proposed rezonincr would be
compatible with the above referenced croal. This property satisfies
the policy that relates to industrial development. The policy
recocrnizes a desire to identifY areas of the town that are easily
developable. accessible to ma ior roads without impactincr
residential areas. and do not compromise the natural resources of
the Town. Therefore. it would appear that rezonincr this property
would not be compatible with some of the relevant portions of the
Master Plan. 9. How are the wider interests of the co..unitv
beinG served bv this proposal? There is no doubt that the
interests of the applicant is beincr served: however. there is some
cruestion as to whether those interests translate into the best
interest of the Town. It is apparent that this property is well
suited to both industrial and commercial uses. However. the land
use policies and neicrhborhood stratecries were developed in
consideration of the wider interests of the community. If an
action is in conflict with those stated policies and stratecries. it
is likely that the action is not servincr the wider interests of the
community. D. SUHHARY ABD COBCLUSIOBS There does not appear to
be any physical constraints on the site. The site is serviced by
municipal water and has access to municipal sewer. Municipal
services should not be a limitincr factor in future development of
the site. The rezonincr is both compatible and incompatible with
the Master Plan. The neicrhborhood croals for this area calls for
the redefinincr of industrial zone to better reflect chancres in land
use and allowincr for the possible expansion of the technical park.
The rezonincr of this property is compatible recrardincr the
redefininG of the industrial zones and is incompatible recrardincr
the industrial park and the location of industrial development.
The area is a hicrh traffic area and the rezonincr would allow for a
use that would crenerate hicrher levels of traffic than those allowed
under the current applicable zonincr. This is an environmental
factor that requires consideration. This rezonincr is likely to be
1ust the becrinnincr of future recruests for rezonincr. The proposed
K-Mart will intensifY the desire of property owners in the area to
cash in on the increased commercial traffic crenerated bY the larcre
retail center. Industrial development in the area could be forced
out bY the demand for commercial properties. Properties aloncr Dix
Avenue. Hicrhland Avenue and Warren Street that are currently zoned
LI-1A could be UP for rezonincr as the demand for commercial
properties increase. The Board has to make a policy determination
as to whether it wants this area to remain industrial or would like
to see it chancre to commercial. Should the Board decide to rezone
this property. consideration should be cri ven to rezonincr
al ternati ve areas of the town to make UP for the industrial
properties that will be lost and an overall review of the
neicrhborhood recrardincr the apparent chancres in land use."
MR. BREWER-Thank you. Would somebodY care to make a recommendation
to the Town Board?
MRS. TARANA-Before we make that recommendation. I broucrht this UP
before. Scott's broucrht it UP. I don't know if it's ever crotten
to the Town Board that they have crot to look at another area for
licrht industrial. if they're takincr this whole thincr away. Just to
reiterate what Jim said. I don't think they crave any consideration
to that last time. I don't remember a discussion about it. do you?
MR. BREWER-For K-Mart YOU mean?
MRS. TARANA-Yes. We rezoned from the licrht industrial.
MR. MARTIN-I think discussion of that encompasses a wider.
MRS. TARANA-Not about relocatincr the licrht industrial zone some
place else.
MR. MARTIN-Ricrht. Somethincr like that recruires. that's best
accomplished. I believe. throucrh the Comprehensive Plan update.
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Somethina like that cannot be taken liahtlY. or done on a spot
basis or somethina like that. You've aot to take into account the
Comprehensive view and the entire impact. and that. unfortunately.
in my view. is the best way to accomplish that. Aaain. it's not
somethina to be taken liahtly or ;ust haphazardlY approached.
MR. STARK-Make the recommendation. Tim.
MR. BREWER-Motion for a recommendation. would somebody care to make
it.
HOTIO. TO RBCOMHB.D TO THB TO". BOARD RR-?n.~~~ ~O P~ ~~~:~
on ACRB POR THB DO.ALD BAKBR PROPBRTY. LOCAlfBD A.1f 36 nTY JV..UB
PBlfITIO. POR 10.. CHAJlGB .0. 9-93. Introduced by Craia MacEwan who
moved for its adoption. seconded by Roaer Ruel:
DulY adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bY the followina
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Now. if YOU want to make that other motion. to look for
another place.
MRS. TARANA-Well. I don't know if it's to look for another place.
like Jim said. but to encouraae them to be sure that this is
addressed when they revise the Master Plan because.
MR. BREWER-The Town Board's not revisina it. thouah.
MR. MARTIN-Well. they will be.
MRS. TARANA-They will be. as of January 1st. That's the new law.
That will be their responsibility. and not.
MR. MARTIN-Well. that's certainly aoina to be. from my talkinas
wi th Fred Champaane. that certainlY is what he's aoina to be
focusina on. or would like to. beainnina that process. It's aoina
to take a while. but he'd like to start.
MRS. TARANA-But I think it's important that we do make the Board
aware. well. it's my feelina. I don't know if it's anYbodY else's.
but it's not these retail kind of businesses that are aoina to help
the economy. It's liaht industrial. if you're aoina to do anythina
about. and heavy industrial. if you're aoina to do anythina about
the economy in this area. It's those kinds of thinas. and we're
eliminatina that whole zone.
MR. BREWER-I aaree with you. and I think it's transformina where
it's aoina to ao. from where it is now. it's aoina to end UP by the
airport.
MR. MARTIN-What I've come to find. in the time that I've been in
municipal economic development. so to speak. is that the retail lot
can demand and support the hiaher cost of the sixty. seventy
thousand dollar ranae. but that's not true for industrial land.
Industrial land. Cary Park is an excellent site. It's nice soils.
dedicated Town road. three tenths of a mile off the interstate. and
it's fifty thousand dollars an acre. and it's sittina.
MR. MACEWAN-Whv is it sittina?
MR. MARTIN-Because industrial development. YOU aet a manufacturer
who comes into a reaion and says. I'm aoina to build a 100.000
sauare foot facility and create 200 ;obs. he's aot people knockina
down his door with free land. low interest loans. packaae deals
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from the State. and YOU iust can't sit back and say. well. I'm
qoinq to demand $50.000 an acre. It doesn't happen that way. and
that's the nature of the beast. K-Mart came in. They iust closed
on a twelve and a half million dollar loan with some Japanese bank
on their mortqaqe. and they paid for all those improvements for the
traffic. movinq the wetland. land at. I think it went for $60 or
$70.000 an acre. and that was all feasible. but industrial
development is different. It iust is. and land at that price is
not movinq. and that's been the problem.
MARK LEVACK
MR. LEVACK-The IDA. Warren Washinqton Economic Development Park is
marketinq acreaqe with sewer. water. power. roads. approvals.
zoninq for. we iust did the last deal. there's two lots left
approved on the existinq Park. and it went for $13.000 an acre.
MR. MARTIN-And that's with tax exempt financinq. I'm sure. all
that.
MR. LEVACK-The averaqe land owner that's in the LI-1A zone can't
compete with that. It keeps LI-1A prices way down.
MR. MARTIN-And the other thinq about it is it's reqional in nature.
It's not iust the qUY down the street sellinq more. It's Ken Green
in Saratoqa County is offerinq phenomenal deals. and that's what
you're competinq with.
MR. RUEL-Supply and demand.
MR. MARTIN-They've qotten Ball Manufacturinq. Ouad Graphics. the
larqe insurance company on Exit 12. I mean. they've qotten some.
MR. LEVACK-Corinne. the other thinq is. if YOU look at the LI-1A
zoninq. there's an awful lot of LI-IA zoninq that I don't see ever
beinQ developed. It's not like YOU have to worry about there beinq
enouqh LI-1A zoninQ out there. You qO out Corinth Road. You qO
out Luzerne Road. There are hUQe tracts out there that have Qreat
soil conditions. Qreat proximity to the Northway. and that
potential isn't even tapped yet. SO YOU have a phenomenal future
hopper of LI-1A zoned land that YOU don't have to worry about
takinq that zone.
MR. MARTIN-See. and that's what I'm trYinq to qet across is. and I
aqree. thouqh. you've qot to constantly consider where vou're
development's QoinQ to occur. especially your industrial. bY it's
nature. but what I'm trYinQ to say is. I don't think it's riqht
now. the problem is not the lack of inventory of land. The problem
is there is not the incentives there to develop.
MR. BREWER-All that liQht industrial land that you're talkinq
about. Mark. is now slowly becominq all houses. thouqh. I mean.
hundreds of houses in the last two years.
MR. LEVACK-Well. aqain. if YOU take a look at the. what Jim is
saYinq. reQional in scope. the Warren Washinqton Industrial Park
has iust approved a maior site on the corner of Hix and County Line
Road. and that's totallY untapped. and they're QoinQ to be brinQinq
that to market for between $13 and $16.000 an acre. So there is
phenomenal opportunity for future liQht industrial within the
reqion that certainly. if YOU take this piece out of it. it doesn't
even hit the tip of the iceberQ.
MR. MARTIN-See. I think this section of Town. as liqht industrial
land alonQ Ouaker Road is ill-conceived. I think that's my.
MR. BREWER-Maybe when they first started the park out there. thev
thouqht it was a qreat thinq.
MR. MARTIN-Well. no. the Oueensbury Industrial Park I think has
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been a success. I think vou can point to that and sav it's been a
success. but K-Mart was a maior shift.
MR. BREWER-Okav. Lets move on.
MR. MARTIN-You've qot items two throuqh five. Tim?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Reqardinq the first one there. the subdivision. there's
a dedication of land.
MR. BREWER-Jim. can we do Number Four first. so Mark can qO home?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Koock Junq. we need an extension on their site
plan approval.
SITE PLAR RO. 39-92 DR. KOOCK JUMG BXTBRSIOR or 9-23-93 APPROVAL.
MARK LEVACK. REPRESENTING APPLICANT. PRESENT
MR. LEVACK-It's under construction riqht now. and we don't think
that it's qoinq to be more than. well.
MR. MARTIN-Aqain. do vou have a buildinq permit in and filed?
MR. LEVACK-That we're qoinq to determine tomorrow morninq. with the
final mvlar.
MR. BREWER-How could vou start construction if vou don't have a
buildinq permit?
MR. LEVACK-It's iust clearinq.
MR. MARTIN-He's doinq site work.
MR. BREWER-So he needs an extension for how lonq?
MR. LEVACK-He's qoinq to drop the septic in in the sprinq. and he's
qoinq to do the framinq. the foundation and framinq construction.
and the last thinq that's qoinq to qO in is the parkinq.
MR. MARTIN-Well. vou'll need a buildinq permit for all that.
MR. LEVACK-Riqht.
MR. MARTIN-How lonq before vou're filinq for a buildinq permit?
MR. LEVACK-Certainlv another month extension would be more than
sufficient.
MR. BREWER-All riqht. So thirtv davs.
MR. MARTIN-Whv don't vou sav throuqh the 31st of Januarv.
MR. BREWER-Smart move. Would somebodv care to offer that?
MOTIOR TO EXTBRD SITB PLAR MO. 39-92 DR. KOOCK JURG. Introduced bv
Corinne Tarana who moved for its adoption. seconded bv Roqer Ruel:
To Januarv 31st. 1994.
Dulv adoPted this 21st dav of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
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MR. BREWER-Okav. Now we'll qO back in order.
SUBDIVISIOR RO. 4-1992 GUIDO PASSARIILLI BAYBROOK SUBDIVISIOR
RBSOLUTIOB REGARDIRG LARD DEDICATIOB
MR. MARTIN-Guido Passarelli. that's another situation where he's
offerinq dedication of land. associated with BavBrook. and we need
a resolution authorizinq Tim to send a letter off to the Recreation
Commission.
MR. BREWER-But we don't even know what the land is. Jim.
MR. MARTIN-It's that 6.1 acre parcel.
MRS. TARANA-He says attached plat. and we don't have an attached
plat.
MR. MARTIN-Well. it would be the one. it's the wetland area
indicated in the.
MR. BREWER-Is Bav Meadows qoinq to do that. too?
MR. MARTIN-Bav Meadows. That's the one that's not determined vet.
That's the one. I don't know if that's what yOU were thinkinq.
That hasn't been determined vet. That's whY that's not on here
vet.
MR. RUEL-What kind of recreation purposes do YOU have in the
wetland?
MR. MARTIN-Well. it's beinq offered for dedication. I mean. YOU
have to take it throuqh. This is a draft. This is a standard
letter that's sent.
MR. RUEL-If it's worthless land. what's the difference if he's
dedicatinq it?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. but the decision still has to be made not to accept
it. and that has to qO to this Board. as well as the Recreation
Commission. and the Town Board for an opinion. and then YOU accept
or deny.
MR. BREWER-So we're not tellinq the Town Board we want to take
this?
MR. MARTIN-No. We're 1ust passinq it alonq.
MR. BREWER-We're tellinq them to qive us their recommendations.
MR. MARTIN-Their opinion on it.
MR. BREWER-Their opinion. So lets 1ust do it and qet on with it.
MR. RUEL-Fine. Lets do that.
MR. MARTIN-I need a resolution authorizinq Tim to send the letter.
MOTIOR THAT TIM BRE"IIR SERD A LETTER TO THE TO"R BOARD ARD
RECREATIOR COHHISSIOB RIIOUESTIRG THBIR I.PUT OR THB OFFBR OF THE
DBDICATIOR OF LARD FOR THB GUIDO PASSARIILLI PROPBRTY AT THE
~AYBROOK SUBDIVISIOR. Introduced bv Corinne Tarana who moved for
its adoption. seconded bv Craiq MacEwan:
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
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ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Hr. LaPoint
HR. MARTIN-The next one is Garth Allen.
SUBDIV:ISIOR RO. 21-1993 GARTH ALLBR RBOUBST I"OR BXTBRSIOR 01"
!'IRAL APPROVAL (SBB LB'l'lBR DA'lBD 12/16/93\
MR. MARTIN-He needs an extension on his subdivision aDDroval. He
is also waitinq on the Army CorDs of Enqineers.
MR. BREWER-How lonq does he need?
MR. MARTIN-I think he's qoinq to need.
MR. BREWER-June or JulY.
MR. MARTIN-No kiddinq. and he's also qoinq to be DrODOsinq
dedication of recreation land yet to be determined.
MR. MACEWAN-May I ask a question? Why is it takinq the Army CorDs
of Enqineers so lonq to visit this site and the other site we were
talkinq about toniqht. and they were so quick to resDond to the K-
Mart site?
MR. MARTIN-Well. if YOU think. they weren't really that quick.
Well. first of all. K-Mart came in havinq alreadY contacted them
Drior to YOU cominq to even cominq to the Town. They had already
been in the Drocess with Army CorDS of Enqineers. Army CorDs had
already been to the site and acceDted their delineation. when they
had first started talkinq to us last Februarv or March. So they
had been like three months into the Drocess already. and they
didn't qet fully siqned off on that until SeDtember. So it's about
the same.
MR. STARK-Nine months.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-How lonq does Garth need now?
MR. BREWER-Give them a year.
MR. MARTIN-I would say Julv 31st.
MR. MACEWAN-Of next year.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-When did his aDDroval start?
MR. MARTIN-I think it was October.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes. late SeDtember or October meetinq.
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. BREWER-It eXDires the end of this month?
MR. MARTIN-I think so.
MR. BREWER-I iust don't want to see it qO until July and then see
them come back and ask for another extension. That's all I'm
saYinq. WhY don't we qO to SeDtember.
HR. MARTIN-SeDtember 30th then.
MR. MACEWAN-Garth Allen was done on our SeDtember 28th meetinq.
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''"'-
MR. STARK-Okay. So that's a year from now.
MR. BREWER-Yes. September 30th.
MR. MACEWAN-Okav.
HOTIOR TO IXTBRD SUBDIVISIOR RO. 21-1993 GARTH ALLIR. Introduced
bv Craiq MacEwan who moved for its adoption. seconded bv Georqe
Stark:
Until September 30th. 1994.
Dulv adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bv the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. BREWER-Now. we've qot a letter about Newell.
MR. MARTIN-That's iust. he does need a wetlands permit.
MR. BREWER-Okav. and what about Olive Garden?
MR. MARTIN-That's a little bit more complicated.
MR. MACEWAN-Just quickly. what's the deal with Lucas Wilson? Is he
dead in the water now?
MR. MARTIN-He's asked for a tablinq. is all I know.
MR. MACEWAN-But he's qot some sort of zoninq problem down there.
MR. MARTIN-He's already qot a variance.
MR. MACEWAN-Did he qet the variance?
MR. MARTIN-He qot the variance.
MR. MACEWAN-So we hanq on to this thinq?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Hanq on to it. He's still qot problems. maybe.
with his ownership of land.
R.SOLUTIOR AUTHORIZIRG ZORIRG ADHIRISTRATOR TO SBRD LITTIR
QUTLIRIRG CORDITIORS PIRTAIRIRG TO THI OLIVI GARDBR.
MR. BREWER-Thev don't want to block it off. riqht. Jim?
MR. MARTIN-No. the v want to comply fullY.
MR. BREWER-Thev iust want their temporary CO? I hate those thinqs.
MR. MACEWAN-Thev were brinqinq in chairs the other day. So they're
close.
MR. MARTIN-Okav. Here's the site plan as approved back. I believe
it was in '92. and here's their expansion. Thev built it as they
said would. Now there were eleven conditions that were put on it.
when it was approved. and they've met them all already. or they're
in the process of meetinq them. The one that they will not be in
compliance with. prior to the openinq of this restaurant. was this
landscapinq around here. in this area.
MR. MACEWAN-Who's "thev"? Now this is the Olive Garden?
MR. MARTIN-No.
The Olive Garden. there's two parties involved
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here. The Olive Garden people did thei~end of it. That's all in
here. and thev're puttinq in the fiberqlass barriers. That'll be
in place and all that.
MR. BREWER-So. vou know what I noticed? Now that they have. I saw
a trailer back in there the other day. and I don't know how the
hell he qot in there. but he qot in there. and he was backed in
there. and he was qoinq to qO out there. Are they qoinq to block
that driveway off. or are they iust qoinq to block off?
MR. MARTIN-No. This driveway's qoinq to be blocked off.
MR. BREWER-Completelv?
MR. MARTIN-Ron accessible. onlY bv emerqencv vehicles.
MR. BREWER-How are the v qoinq to qet in here to qet over to here to
the loadinq docks?
MR. MARTIN-The way they presented it was it was supposed to be a
one way pattern. they back in and pullout.
MR. BREWER-What do YOU mean? If this is blocked off.
MR. MARTIN-No. no. This isn't. It's blocked off here.
MR. BREWER-All riqht.
MR. MARTIN-This way stays open. It runs like parallel with the
road. Okay. What was supposed to happen with the Olive Garden CO
was all this plantinq on this perimeter here. the plantinqs in the
islands. installation of the islands. these are curbed raised
islands. There's five of them. one. two. three. four. five. and
curbed defined entry way here. Well. they didn't make it with the
weather.
MR. BREWER-I don't understand why. Thev knew. when they started
buildinq that buildinq. that they were qoinq to have to do that.
and that's not an excuse to me. I would say. no. don't qive them
the co. I mean. that's wronq. You bet your ass they'll be there
tomorrow startinq. puttinq barriers in and stuff.
MR. MARTIN-What they're offerinq is a $12.000 cash contribution to
an escrow account on deposit with the Town. It's an outriqht cash
escrow that this will be all done bv June 1st of next vear. If
it's not. we can withdraw the money.
MR. MACEWAN-But the restaurant's already UP and runninq.
MR. BREWER-Yes. I mean. on the one hand YOU can't blame the
restaurant. because they did evervthinq they said they were aoina
to do. but that iust irritates me how developers do that. Thev
promise YOU one thina. and then they don't do it.
MR. MARTIN-Those are the only thinqs. I ran it bv Tom Yarmowich.
He said it's a sufficient amount to cover the cost should YOU aet
left. YOU have to actually enforce it and draw the money out.
MR. MACEWAN-So who puts it in. if they don't? Who does all the all
that? Do the Town employees qO UP there and do it?
MR. MARTIN-No. We subcontract it out.
MR. MACEWAN-So the only thina that they're lackinq is doina the
landscaÞina.
MR. MARTIN-And the curbinq.
MR. MACEWAN-And the curbina. Twelve thousand dollars is aoina to
cover that?
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'~
MRS. TARANA-I'd ask them for S20.000.
MR. RUEL-I read that document. all the items YOU have on there.
It's wav over S12.000 if YOU had to do it. He said it's sufficient
to hold them to it. S12.000.
MR. MARTIN-No. That's sufficient if we have to do it ourselves.
MR. RUEL-I don't believe it.
double.
I think it's Got to be at least
MR. MACEWAN-As a planner. do YOU believe it?
MR. RUEL-I went throuqh the list. itemized each one. and I put a
dollar fiQure on each one. It came to about S25.000. You can't
Qet that done for S12.000. You've Qot about S25.000 worth of work.
here. curbed islands. seeded lawns. thirteen trees. five shrubs.
I spent over S5.000 on mv little property.
MR. STARK-You know. Timmv. thoUGh. 1ate1v there's been more
compliance than there has been in the past. with this kind of thinq
in the Town.
MR. BREWER-It's fine with me.
MR. STARK-I'm iust savinG. look at what happened last year. with
the GUV with the fence. I mean. but late1v.
MR. BREWER-He is savinG UP for that last post he has to put UP.
MR. MARTIN-He's Got a bench warrant for his arrest. HUGh Sinclair.
He didn't show UP to court.
MRS. TARANA-For what?
MR. BREWER-Because we took him to court.
MR. MACEWAN-So what's the deal we're GoinG to do with this? We've
Got to say that S12.000 in an escrow account is sufficient to cover
the stripinG. the plantinG of the trees and all the curbinQ in
there?
MR. MARTIN-RiGht.
MR. RUEL-I say it isn't.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't buy that.
MR. RUEL-I ,say that's half. Chances are thev'll do it anyway. but
vou'11 never do it for S12.000.
MR. BREWER-Have them prove to us they can do it .for S12.000.
MRS. TARANA-Can we ask them for an itemized listinG? I mean. they
had to come UP with S12.000. Tell them we want their worksheet on
how they came UP with S12.000. with prices. this many trees is this
amount. this much money. Thev had to have some listinG to Qet
S12.000.
MR. RUEL-And the labor. not iust the material.
MR. BREWER-Have them show us that they can do it for S12.000 and
that's sufficient. and then we'll say okay.
MRS. TARANA-That would be mv feelinG.
MR. STARK-No. YOU can't. because they're GoinG to open UP Januarv
18th.
MR. BREWER-Not if they don't Get a CO they're not.
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',---
MR. STARK-Our next meetinq isn't until after that. thouqh.
MR. MARTIN-That's why I brouqht it UP toniqht.
MR. BREWER-If they can prove to us. when are they qoinq to open?
MR. STARK-January 18th. I heard.
MR. BREWER-Site visits are the 10th.
MR. MACEWAN-And we're qoinq to have a special meetinq early in
January anyway. So if there's somethinq we can do to cover it
then. we'll cover it then.
MR. BREWER-I don't see anv benefit to a special meetinq.
MR. STARK-When's the special meetinq in January?
MR. MACEWAN-We haven't discussed it Yet.
MR. BREWER-Tell them to prove it to us by then. Jim. and we'll qet
toqether.
MR. MARTIN-All riqht. I'll tell them I want an itemized quotation.
MRS. TARANA-Jim. I think. here's the thinq. This is what I think
about it. If YOU qet a list. an itemized list. $12.000 is it.
Well. they can write any kind of thinq. why am I saYinq that? I
mean. they could say rose bushes are fifty cents a piece.
MR. MARTIN-I can have them double check. I've qot to have a
direction here. You want an itemized quotation. and Tom to double
check?
MR. BREWER-Just tell them qive us an estimate. I mean. it doesn't
have to be a two inch caliper tree is $380.
MR. MARTIN-Well. I want to make sure they put it. because this will
really dress UP the looks of this Plaza. if they do that perimeter
plantinq.
MRS. TARANA-Jim. let me ask YOU this. rather than qettinq it from
them. how hard would it be for. say. Pam. or somebody in your
office to call UP and qet an estimate?
MR. BREWER-You're
qoinq to have to
to Jimmy Girard.
curbinqs in.
qoinq to have to qO to three people. You're
qO to Brian Granqer. You're qoinq to have to qO
You're qoinq to have to qO to somebody to put the
MRS. TARANA-Could somebody make calls for YOU to see if $12.000 is
sufficient. or is that what Tom Yarmowich does?
MR. RUEL-How about a bond. $10.000?
MR. MARTIN-Well. I'd rather have cash.
MR. BREWER-Twelve thousand cash is better than a bond. $10.000.
MR. MARTIN-How about if we qive them an out. say either they have
to supply all this stuff. or qive us $25.000?
MR. BREWER-Great.
MRS. TARANA-To do it ourselves.
MR. RUEL-That's qood.
MR. MARTIN-The Board feels that's not sufficient. they'd like it
doubled.
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'---
MR. RUEL-Yes. You're riqht. Even $24.000 would be all riqht.
MR. STARK-What do yOU mean. qive yOU all that stuff?
MR. BREWER-Written quotations.
MRS. TARANA-I iust wonder how hard it would be to qet that from
somebody?
MR. BREWER-I'm sure it involves quite a lot to qO out there and
measure and make a list of materials and labor.
MR. RUEL-Who's qoinq to do this?
MR. BREWER-I'm sayinq. if they had to do that.
MR. RUEL-Jim. who came UP with the $12.000?
MR. MARTIN-That came from them. Howard Carr.
MR. RUEL-Are these the people that will ultimately be doinq the
work?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. He contracts it out himself.
himself. He contracts it out.
He doesn't do it
MR. BREWER-Why don't we do that. Tell them to qive us an itemized
estimate. or qive us $24.000. $25.000.
MR. MARTIN-I need a resolution.
HOTIOR TO GO BACK ARD ASK THE APPLICA.~. HOWARD CARR. rOR EITHER
$25.000 I.S~EAD or THE $12.000 orWBRED. OR WRI~~E. ESTIMATES rROM
CO.~RAC~ORS TO THE ACTUAL PRICE or WHA~ IT WOULD COST TO COMPLETE
THE PROJECT SIT.. ITEMIZED ESTIHAT.S rROM CORTRACTORS. Introduced
bv Craiq MacEwan who moved for its adoPtion. seconded by Roqer
Ruel:
Duly adopted this 21st day of December. 1993. bY the followinq
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MRS. TARANA-Can I do the minutes. qet rid of these?
MR. BREWER-Yes. Lets do the minutes.
CORRECTIOR or MIRUTES
Auqust 24th. 1993: NONE
Auqust 30th. 1993: Paqe 6.
discussion
September 21st. 1993: NONE
SePtember 23rd. 1993: NONE
September 28th. 1993: NONE
sIb Corinne Tarana recused herself from
MOTIO. TO APPROVE THE ABOVE SETS or HI.UTES AS CORRBCTED.
Introduced by Corinne Tarana who moved for its adoption. seconded
bv Timothv Brewer:
Duly adoPted this 21st day of December. 1993. by the foll.owinq
- 70 -
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-..-/
vote:
AYES. Mr. Stark. Mrs. Tarana. Mr. Ruel. Mr. MacEwan. Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT. Mrs. Pulver. Mr. LaPoint
MR. MACEWAN-What I was sUClClestinCl to Tim was havinCl a special
meetinCl. the first week in Januarv. to nominate new officers and a
new Chairman. so that we can Clet it to the Town Board. so the Town
Board can approve it. and act on it alonCl wi tb the other two
vacancies that have to be taken care of before our first meetinCl of
Januarv. wbich is CloinCl to be the 18th.
MR. STARK-First of all. the Town Board isn't CloinCl to appoint two
or three new members bv their first meetinCl in Januarv.
MR. MACEWAN-We've been assured that they're CloinCl to.
MR. BREWER-He didn't say he was CloinCl to do it. He said he would
get on it the first part of the year.
On motion meetinCl was adiourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED.
Timothv Brewer. Chairman
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