1994-11-17 SP
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD
SPECIAL MEETING
NOVEMBER 17, 1994
INDEX
MEETING
Site Plan No. 32-94
Barrett Auto Sales, Inc.
1.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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E ECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
EENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
ECIAL MEETING
1994
PRESENT
TIMOTHY BREWER, CHAIRMAN
ORGE STARK, SECRETARY
AIG MACEWAN
MES OBERMAYER
GER RUEL
BERT PALING
T WN ENGINEER-RIST-FROST, BILL MACNAMARA
ANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER
ENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
o D BUSINESS:
S TE PLAN NO. 32-94 TYPE: UNLISTED BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC.
o NER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: QUAKER RD.,
A JACENT TO CAR WASH AND SOUTHEAST OF GARDEN TIME. PROPOSAL IS
T CONSTRUCT A 71' X 115' SQ. FT. BUILDING TO BE USED FOR SALES
A D SERVICE OF AUTOS AND TRUCKS. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 65-90 UV
6 -1994 BEAUTIFICATION COMM: 9/12/94 WARREN CO. PLANNING:
9 14/94 TAX MAP NO. 110-1-1.23 LOT SIZE: 85,500 SQ. FT.
S CTION: 179-26
CARLES SCUDDER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
M MACNAMARA-The
c mpletely wrapped
y ur plan, plans
sales.
only item that we have that
up is, he's going to size, unless
have changed, you were going to
hasn't been
you change
size some
M
SCUDDER-Yes. There's no changes.
M MACNAMARA-And meet the infiltration and volume numbers
w typically look for on a site plan for stormwater.
c rtainly, by all indications, looks like he has plenty of
t do that. It's just a matter of actually showing
c lculations and showing the grades.
that
It's
room
the
M . BREWER-Okay. Charlie, on the new map, you're going to show
t e 22 spaces as green space, up in the front, just make that
c rrection. Didn't we talk about that at the last meeting?
SCUDDER-We talked about shortening up.
M
M. BREWER-I don't know if you're going to eliminate the whole
t ing. No, no, no. I'm sorry. That was going to be a display
a ea, correct?
M
SCUDDER-That's correct. That is correct.
M BREWER-So why don't we change this to say, display. Can we
d that? So that there doesn't have to be any indication of size
o space for cars. I think we waived that, right?
M . SCUDDER-Right.
t enty areas.
Yes.
What I did was I showed 22 nine by
M . BREWER-Mark, do we have to waive anything to give him that
r ght to not size these spaces up in the front?
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MR. SCHACHNER-If that's a requirement of the Subdivision Reg's.
I'm sorry, if it's part of the Zoning Ordinance requirement, then
we don't have the authority to waive it. I'm not sure if it is.
MR. BREWER-I thought we talked, at one of the first meeting we
had with them, and he said this was going to be a display area
for the sale of cars, so we really didn't think there was a need
to have that size requirement.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. That sounds familiar to me.
MR. SCUDDER-I think ~ piped up and said.
MR. SCHACHNER-I found the Staff Notes that I've been lugging
around since it's been tabled, and I think, I mean, the last ones
are dated September 27th, and they don't mention parking as a
problem.
MR. MACNAMARA-Do you
parking requirement?
think you need
Is that why?
these
spaces to
meet
a
MR. SCUDDER-No. There is no parking requirement we have to meet
here.
MR. STARK-Why did you even put them in? Just put down, Display
Area.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, I put them in for the benefit of the client.
He wants to know how many cars he can handle.
MR. MACNAMARA-According to the parking reg's, all you need is 48
anyway. He's got 70 showing.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, but he wants to put some cars up front, on
Quaker Road.
MR. SCUDDER-But there's no requirement for us to stripe that,
right? We established that.
MR. BREWER-Well, I thought the conversation was that you were
going to leave that green, rather than pave it or put gravel down
there.
MR. SCUDDER-Well, we talked about reducing the amount of
pavement, but not eliminating it all together.
MR. BREWER-Right. Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-In here?
MR. SCUDDER-·Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-I thought it was all going to be green space? The
way ~ remembered it. There was going to be no pavement there.
That was all green space.
MR. RUEL-They're going to park the cars on the green space?
MR. SCUDDER-It can be done.
done.
There's no reason why it can't be
MR. MACEWAN-I, personally, would prefer to see that happen.
MR. SCUDDER-However, I would
requirement on green space
permeable.
point out that
and permeable.
we're
If we
within the
talk about
MR. MACEWAN-Does it hurt to have a little bit more than what's
the minimum?
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M SCUDDER-No, not at all. It's also cheaper.
M
BREWER-Thirty.
M . RUEL-What's the minimum on here, percentage?
M . RUEL-And they have 32.
M. OBERMAYER-That area would be paved anyway, though, if it was
p rking, did you say, or it would be stoned, gravel? Will it be
p ved?
. RUEL-No. They're talking about green space here.
M OBERMAYER-But if it's not green space, would it be a paved
a1ea?
M MACEWAN-Yes.
M . SCUDDER-Chances are it would be, but I would just as soon see
i green.
M . MACEWAN-Would you rather have it green?
M OBERMAYER-Sure.
M MACEWAN-I mean, God, there's enough macadam along the whole
s,retch of road as it is now.
M . OBERMAYER-That's fine.
t at's fine.
If you're willing to make it green,
M'. RUEL-What happens? That's a display area. You're going to
p rk cars on a green space?
M . MACEWAN-Why not?
M
STARK-Everybody does.
M . MACEWAN-We just passed it for Marion Wilhelm to do with her
l"ttle used car sale.
· STARK-Queensbury Motors, Della Pontiac.
RUEL-What do they do, move the cars to cut the grass?
MACEWAN-Yes.
M
RUEL-And then put them back again.
NIEL BARBER
· BARBER-When we plow the snow, it kills the grass.
BREWER-Is there any other questions from anybody?
· PALING-I'll ask the same question I keep asking. Does the
y you call for zoning on the prints now match the zoning that's
tually going? It doesn't?
SCUDDER-I haven't changed it.
M
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PALING-Then shouldn't that be changed?
STARK-On the final plat.
M
M . PALING-Just to shut me up.
M BREWER-Well, yes. He's got Highway Commercial on the map and
i should be Light Industrial.
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MR. PALING-As long as the prints that are signed are done right,
I don't care.
MR. MACEWAN-I would prefer to see the final
actual zone that it's in. It may be noted
variance given to it on the plat.
plat represent the
that there was a
MR. SCUDDER-LI-1A.
MR. OBERMAYER-Put it on the original drawing.
idea.
That's a good
MR. SCUDDER-One of these days, you people are going to have to
consider rezoning that area.
MR. MACEWAN-It's not our job, the wrong Board.
MR. RUEL-Tim, wasn't there a problem, here, with possible
flooding on this road.
MR. BREWER-Ask the engineer.
MR. RUEL-Remember that? Some of the people that lived nearby
mentioned the fact that this area flooded all the time, when they
came across?
MR. BREWER-I don't recall any comment.
MR. OBERMAYER-No, that's not an issue.
MR. STARK-You're talking Marion Wilson.
MR. MACEWAN-That's just an access road by the ca,- wash, nobody
lives over there.
MR. BREWER-It's all vacant land.
MR. SCUDDER-It's all vacant land there.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Any other questions from anybody else?
MR. PALING-Yes. What's the height of the tallest building?
What's the height?
MR. SCUDDER-That's 33 feet, isn't it?
MR. BARBER-Just about 33 feet. That's right.
MR. OBERMAYER-Do you have an elevation or something you could
just show us what the building's going to look like?
MR. BARBER-Yes, we have prints. I thought everybody had prints.
There is it right there.
MR. OBERMAYER-There it is.
MR. BARBER-You don't have the floor plans, but you've got the
profiles and the.
MR. PALING-Now, see, there is no height listed, but it's 33 feet.
MR. BARBER-On the scale.
MR. STARK-It fits in with everything else down there.
MR. BARBER-Yes, it does. Architectural shingles on that front
shed roof, and then there's going to be cedar shakes on the front
underneath it just to make it look good.
MR. STARK-Is he picking up the new car franchise for this?
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M . BARBER-No, but the other building is a disaster. Physically,
i ' s shot.
M
MACEWAN-That building is old down there.
M BARBER-Yes, but they've got runoff waters, phenomenal water,
i the spring, coming in the offices, flooding them, and they
h ve big sewage problems there. They're in big trouble down
t ere. There's a problem with the gasoline, you know, down
t ere. They've had to dig UP the tanks.
M
MACEWAN-Do they own that property?
M . BARBER-Yes, they own it.
MR. RUEL-What's the color of the exterior?
MR. BARBER-White is, as we know right now, it would be a white,
the glossed white, the sheet metal, the vinyl texture that it
has. It's going to be a metal building, but the front, now, has,
th shed roof has architectural, well, it's a hip roof, also. It
ha architectural shingles on it, okay, pick UP a nice effect of
th roof. We have a steep pitched roof on it also, and then we
ha e hand split cedar shakes underneath on the wall, to pick up
e nice aesthetics, and then we're going to put posts with 45
ree angles on them, as you see there.
MR. RUEL-How about exterior lighting?
MR. BARBER-They had wanted lighting on the building, so
th re wouldn't be any problems, if there was any problem.
do what you want and put it on the building.
that
We'd
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. We discussed that and said it was okay.
MR. MACEWAN-The only thing I think
so ehow it was to be set up so that
di-ectly out onto Quaker Road.
we mentioned is
light wouldn't be
that we,
shining
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
MR BARBER-But light poles and bases are a problem.
MR MACEWAN-No. The light on the building itself was okay with
ev.rybody.
MR RUEL-Yes. There are many places that have the lights shining
ri ht on the road, which is very bad.
MR OBERMAYER-What kind of roof is it going to be, a seamless
ro f?
MR BARBER-No, no. It would be a three foot wide, 39 inches,
ac ually, three foot exposed, sheet metal, okay, but, sheet metal
lo ks very good today.
MR OBERMAYER-Seamless roofs are beautiful.
MR BARBER-Yes, they're very nice. They're very nice, but that's
to big for that. That roof is a horrendous size, that building
is
MR RUEL-It's insulated, the building?
MR BARBER-Yes.
an everything.
It's all finished, everything, heated garage,
We have full prints on everything.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. Where's the mechanical equipment going to be?
Is it going to be inside?
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MR. BARBER-The mechanical, yes, everything but the air
conditioning for the offices. That has to be out, the condensing
unit. Nothing would show. It's going to be exactly the way you
see it her e .
MR. RUEL-Do you know how many employees, roughly?
MR. SCUDDER-Fifteen.
MR. BARBER-Yes. We talked about that last night. There's 15 new
employees, I thought, or 15 total?
MR. SCUDDER-Well, no. They have a total of seven now, and they
anticipate fifteen, at total of fifteen, max.
MR. OBERMAYER-Don't they have a place on Dix Avenue?
going to happen to that?
What's
MR. BREWER-They're going to vacate it and move here.
MR. BARBER-We're going to try to rent it right now, but the
building is a real disaster, physically. So I don't think they
could sell it. They're going to try to rent it. They looked at
fixing it, the money you put into that thing was horrendous, and
they still wouldn't have a decent place to do business. It
wouldn't be decent at all. They don't have any real repair
center down there. They've got, like, one real bay, to do the
repairs, and as you see here, we've got a nice organized,
there'll be a lot of trucks, etc., that, the stuff inside at
night that wouldn't be outside, that would normally be outside at
the other place.
MR. RUEL-This is rentals, right?
MR. BARBER-Well, it's rental, and they do, like last night, they
went into, as the cars age, they sell them. They have to, like
two year. It's only, like, one and two years they sell them,
and, you know, to replenish their fleet and get new vehicles. I
bought a Taurus from them, beautiful car. It only had, like,
40.000 on it.
MR. SCUDDER-They sell there. They buy their new cars as fleet
sales, and then they sell them after a year or two.
MR. OBERMAYER-You can get some pretty good deals out there. I
know that.
MR. BARBER-I got a gorgeous Taurus, had great luck with it, for a
tremendous price.
MR. RUEL-It depends on the previous drivers.
MR. BARBER-Well said.
MR. OBERMAYER-They're usually pretty well maintained though,
rent-a-cars.
MR. BARBER-But they do. They maintain them very well.
MR. OBERMAYER-Are they going to rent anything else here, or is
this going to be anything other than rental?
MR. BARBER-Here? No, no. Nothing would be rented here. They
have quite an operation, totally, but a lot of the cars are in
other cities. They have 180 cars in the fleet, but most of them
are distributed around all kinds of cities, and they, like,
rotate back to what they have, the same number that they have,
which is in the area right now. I think, what did they say,
between 30 and 40 cars, that's what they have around the area.
Everything is licensed. There's no unlicensed vehicles. There's
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n trailers. They're not in the trailer business. There would
b no trailers there.
M . BREWER-Dan, is there going to be an area where they're going
t have dumpsters?
M . BARBER-Yes, we have that right on the print.
BREWER-Right behind the building.
M
M . BARBER-It's all going to have a nice fence on it.
M
SCUDDER-And landscaped, in the back.
M
OBERMAYER-When do you plan on starting construction?
M BARBER-We're hoping before frost, which, this year, is very
god. You're not going to see any real problems, I don't think,
a Christmas, this year, weatherwise.
M
OBERMAYER-No, I don't think so, either.
M BARBER-All we want to do is get the concrete in, because I
have so many things, then we want to leave it until, like, early
F bruary, and then get back.
MR. OBERMAYER-Now you won't pour the floor slab, though, you'll
j st put the frost wall in?
MR. BARBER-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-You're going to pour the floor slab, too?
MR. BARBER-Certainly, stabilize
ev rything.
the soil
conditions, and
MR. OBERMAYER-I'm surprised you don't pour the wall first, build
and then you can heat it on the side and then pour
slab.
MR. BARBER-Well, it costs a lot of money, because once that
st, you start working on it, go down two and a half feet,
ee feet, you have to put phenomenal heat in there. It's a big
blem.
MR. SCUDDER-Let me bring this over so you can see what the final
wi 1 look like. The only thing I would change on here is the
zo ing designation, which is wrong.
RUEL-A couple of things, here, have to
sh uld be 200 feet. This should be 30.
Yo 're going to change all of these things?
be changed.
This should
This
be 30.
MR. SCUDDER-You mean to conform with the different zone?
MR. RUEL-Yes. You have to change it.
MR. SCUDDER-All right, I'll change them.
MR. RUEL-Here it is. You've got the information here.
MR OBERMAYER-You identified that in a letter?
MR MACNAMARA-No. We think we talked about it at the meeting.
MR OBERMAYER-Okay.
MR BREWER-So you'll make changes noted on the drawing.
MR OBERMAYER-Right, bring it up to date with the cu,-rent zoning.
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MR. BREWER-Okay. Any other questions before I open the public
hearing?
MR. MACNAMARA-I think, just for the record, (lost word) that
County reviewed the Quaker Road access is complete, is that what
you said?
MR. SCUDDER-You're talking about DPW?
MR. MACNAMARA-All I know is it's a County road, and Tim believes
we've got a curb cut on a County road. There's a County curb
cut.
MR. SCUDDER-No. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant, had
we been to the County Planning Board.
MR. MACNAMARA-No.
MR. SCUDDER-No. We don't have the driveway permit yet.
MR. MACNAMARA-Okay. Typically, on a County road, I think the
County likes the curb cut permit, particularly if there's going
to be a culvert placed in their right-of-way.
MR. OBERMAYER-That's right. Are we going to send these plans to
the Glens Falls Transportation Council for approval before we
vote on it?
MR. MACEWAN-Their only interest is, as they said in that meeting,
State roads.
MR. BREWER-I think we did send this, and they were happy, because
there was originally two curb cuts, and now it's reduced to one
curb cut.
MR. BARBER-That's a new ruling by Jim Martin, it's 150 feet now,
a mandate between ~ curb cut, adjacent properties. It's his
own ruling.
MR. BREWER-I'm going to open the public hearing.
want to comment?
Does anybody
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. BREWER-We can do the SEQRA now.
MR. MACEWAN-This is Short, right?
MR. STARK-Type Unlisted.
MR. SCUDDER-It's Unlisted, according to the agenda.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 32-94, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for
its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Planning
BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC., and
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
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R SOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Du y adopted this 17th day of November, 1994, by the following
vo e:
AY S: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. stark,
Mr Ruel, Mr. Brewer
NO S: NONE
AB ENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR RUEL-I have a question.
CF , whatever, what is that?
wh t, it is.
The first thing you read in that,
I never answer because I don't know
MR SCHACHNER-I'm guessing, does the action exceed?
MR MACEWAN-Type I threshold.
MR PALING-6NYCRR Part 617.
MR RUEL-What is that?
MR.
St
mo
ab
to
Re
61
for,
SCHACHNER-That's this, and what this is is, SEQRA stands for
te Environmental Quality Review Act, and ,-emember a couple of
ths ago we had them here, and I gave this little discussion
ut it and one of the things I mentioned was that, in addition
the Statute, there are regulations called the SEQRA
ulations. SEQRA Regulations are what's called 6NYCRR Part
See, it says that right there. NYCRR, that reads, stands
New York Code of Rules and Regulations.
MR. RUEL-And we answer no, that it has no effect, without
re iewing that?
MR. SCHACHNER-No. What you're answering is that, within Part
617, there's something called 617, I'm guessing, it says .12, and
that's a section, notice, Roger, it's called, 617.12 is called
Type I Action, and that first question, the question is, does the
action exceed any of the thresholds for Type I Actions in the
list in 617.12, and the reason that's the first question is
because if the answer to that question is yes, and you can't use
the Short Form, you have to go to the Long Form. So they ask
that question right up front. If the answer is yes, I don't know
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if it says it on the form. I can't remember, but if the answ&r
is yes, you have to switch to the Long Form.
MR. MACEWAN-That's why our Staff takes the effort, when they put
the agendas together, whether it's Type I or Unlisted.
MR. RUEL-They've done that for us already.
MR. MACEWAN-Right.
homewor k .
They've already done that part of the
MR. PALING-And it does say what you're talking about, Mark.
MR. STARK-Make a motion?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 32-94 BARRETT AUTO SALES, INC.,
Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded
by James Obermayer:
To construct a 71' by 115' sq. ft. building to be used for sales
and service of autos and trucks, with the following stipulations:
The correct zoning notations on the final plat to be submitted,
and also the proper setbacks on the final plat to be submitted to
Jim, and also the 22 spaces in the front to be changed to green
space, and the stormwater areas, size and location calculations
on the final plat, and to get County curb permit approval.
Duly adopted this 17th day of November, 1994, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Paling, Mr. Brewer
¡"'WES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. BREWER-I want to apologize for the delay in your application.
MR. SCUDDER-Thank you very
Chairman. Just one thing.
feet, George?
much for
You had
your consideration, Mr.
said 115 feet, 71 by 115
MR. STARK-That's what it says right here.
MR. SCUDDER-That's wrong. It's 71 by 134 feet.
MR. STARK-Make another resolution.
MR. SCHACHNER-Just make a motion to correct the motion.
~OTION TO AMEND PREVIOUS APPROVAL FOR SITE PLAN
BARRETT AUTO SALES. INC., Introduced by George Stark
for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
NO. 32-94
who moved
Instead of the building being 71' by 115' feet, it's 71' by 134'.
Duly adopted this 17th day of November, 1994, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Brewer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
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o motion meeting was adjourned.
R SPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
T mothy Brewer, Chairman
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