1995-10-17
~/
QUEENSBIµRY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBl:lR 17, 1995,:
INDEX
Site Plan No. 5-92
MODIFICATION
Richard Schermerhorn
Tax Map No. 46-2-9.4~ 9.5
Subdivision No. 4-76
MODIFICATION
Heatherbrooke, Lot 17 and 18
Tax Map No. 149-2-17, 18
Subdivision No. 13-1995
FINAL STAGE
Kenneth Ermiger
Tax Map No. 73-1-4
Site Plan No. 52-95
Top of the World Auto Body
Tax Map No. 109-3-4
Site Plan No. 51-95
Ray & Wendy Kraft
Tax Map No. 62-1-8.31
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Site Plan No. 53-95
Anthony Ricciardelli
Tax Map No. Ql:-1-26
Site Plan No. 54-95
Gary Higley
Tax Map No. 105-1-38
7.
8.
9.
11.
15.
21.
i, 35.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY ):AND, WILLSWHE SUCH Þ,tPPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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Queensbury Plannin~ Bda d Meeting 10/17/95:
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOA D MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 17, 1995
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SEi RETARY
GEORGE STARK
ROGER RUEL
CRAIG MACEWAN
TIMOTHY BREWER
MEMBERS ABSENT
JAMES OBERMAYER
CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER-JOHN GORALSKI
PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
August 22, 1995: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE THE I INUTES OF AUGUST 22 1995, Introduced by
Roger Ruel who moved fdr its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan:
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Palin~
I
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. We have some resolutions to take care of
this evening.
RESOLUTIONS: 1. RESOWUTION REGARDING: LEAD AGENT IN THE REVIEW
OF THE LONG EAF FOR THS ALFRED & MARY KRISTENSEN APPLICATIONS.
MR. PALING-Okay. This ¡has to do with the Lead Agency Status, and
we've been requested ~o pass this on to the Zoning Board of
Appeals, but John, you can give us the detail on it, I believe.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. What this is, is a residential addition on
Glen Lake, because Glen Lake is a Critical Environmental Area,
and SEORA Review ha$ to be treated as a Type I Action.
Therefore, a coordinated review has to take place. Now the
applicant has not submitted a Site Plan Review application, to
date. However, if th~y receive their variances, they will have
to come before this 'Board for expansion of a nonconformi ng
structure in a Critic~l Environmental Area. So you will be an
involved agency at some point.
MR. PALING-But the Zoning Board of Appeals will conduct the
SEORA?
MR. GORALSKI-The Zoning Board of Appeals has requested Lead
Agency Status.
MR. PALING-Okay.
Thi has to do, I think, originally, and this
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Queensbury P Ianni ng Board Meet;! n~ 10'/17/95
method of doing it is to correct that situation, so that we won't
come to SEQRA and have to act 6n it without having had a public
hearing. The public hearing will have been held by ZBA, if I
understand it right.
MR. GORALSKI-The Zoning 8'oard of Appeals will conduct the SEQRA
Review completely, if you agree to have them be lead agent. You
won't have to conduct a SEQRA review at all. You'll simply do
YOUT site plan review.
MR. PALING-Okay. I'd like comments from the Board.
MR. BREWER-If they want to do the SEQRA, that's fine. I don't
even know what it's about. I have no idea. I know it's a simple
addition probably.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. It's a residential addition.
MR. PALING-But as long as they do the SEQRA, you're comfortable.
Yes.
MR. RUEL-The only comment I have is, are there any application
numbers?
MR. BREWER-No. We don't have to have an application.
MR. GORALSKI-See, at this point, you don't have an application in
front of you, but based on the Zoning Ordinance, the only way
they can complete this project is to come before you eventually
for a site plan review.
MR. PALING-Which they'll have to do, yes. Okay.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It sounds fine.
MR. STARK-No problem.
MR. MACEWAN-No problem.
MR. PALING-It's okay with me, too. Do we need a motion?
MR. GORALSKI-What you should do is have a motion and a second,
agreeing to allow the Zoning Board of Appeals to act as lead
agent in the matter of Alfred & Mary Ellen Kristensén.
MR. PALING-Well, I'll make a motion.
MOTION THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CONDUCTING THE SEQRA BE PASSED
TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. WITH REGARD TO THE APPLICANTS BY
THE NAME OF ALFRED & MARY ELLEN KRISTENSEN, Introduced by Robert
Paling who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr.Obermayer
RESOLUTION REGARDING LAND IN LIEU OF RECREATION FEES FOR THE
JOSEPH GROSS SUBDIVISION.
MR. GORALSKI-I can explain this one to you, if you'd like, also.
MR. PALING-Okay.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meet.ing
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MR. GORALSKI-We discussed, at I believe it was our last meet,ing,
for the Joseph Gros~ subdivision, that he donate a certain
portion of land in that subdivision to the Town, in lieu of the
Recreation fee. In o~der to get that process formally underway,
the Board needs to ~ass a resolution recommending that the
Recreation Commission i and the Town Board consider this land
dedication in lieu of ~he Recreation fee.
MR. PALING-Does everybody understand that, or do you want a
little more depth?
MR. BREWER-I understanq, but is this our recommendation to accept
that land? I
MR. GORALSKI-Well,
basically, what it
from the Recreation
final decision.
you can pose it as a recommendation, but
is, is you're looking for a recommendation
Commission, and then it's the Town Board's
MR. BREWER-Right, but I
recommendation to them?
MR. GORALSKI-You can. IRi9ht.
think, don't
we also
give
a
You can make a recommendation.
MR. BREWER-In that ca$e, it's just!Jl2::. opinion that I think if
we're going to recomme~d to accept that land, I would like to see
a map of the land. I mean, I recall the subdivision, and
everything, just a piece of it outlined, and how much land is it.
I just want the land identified, so I know what we're talking
about.
MR. STARK-It's a nice iece of land.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It's not on that map. I don't think, John, it was
on that original map.
I
MR. PALING-This is the lold map here.
!
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
map.
They gave us a letter requesting this, an a
MR. BREWER-Does this have to be done tonight?
MR. GORALSKI-It doesn't have to be done tonight, no.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Has the Recreation Commission seen this?
MR. GORALSKI-The Recreation Department has seen it.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I mean the Commission.
MR. GORALSKI-Not officially. They have discussed it, but they
haven't officially sen it, because you haven't officially sent
it to them.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay.
MR. RUEL-Why don't w just pass it on to the Town Board and
Recreation Commission, Iwithout necessarily making an approval?
MR. PALING-Well, let
When we're all done 10
that the Town does or
to recommend they look
e ask a question in that regard, though.
king at this, is it up to us to recommend
oesnot accept the land, or is it up to us
at it?
MR. BREWER-No. We've ~lways recommendèd whether to accept or not
to accept, in the past.
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Queensbury P Ianni ngBoard Mee't'i ng
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MR. RUEL-We don't have to do that. We can just recommend that
they make that decision.
MR. BREWER-I think if you look at the Ordinance, we play more of
a role than you think we do.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. You certainly are in a position to make a
recommendation to the Town Board as to whether or not you feel
it's appropriate for them to accept this land for dedication.
MR. PALING-Where is the land?
MR. BREWER-That's what I'm saying, Bob. I would like to know
what the land is, where it is. I don't have a pyoblem with it.
I Just want to know what it is.
MR. GORALSKI-Okay. If you look on the map that I've given you,
there's a strip of land, 40 feet wide, along the Northway, from
the bend in Big Bay Road all the way down to, there's one lot
left at the end of, that's what they want to dedicate.
MR. PALING-That was on their print before, too.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And this is so we could bring it under, to go to
the other part.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. The purpose of that would be to put some
type of a trail along there, so that pedestrians and bicycles
would be able to go under the bridge to the Hudson River Park, as
opposed to going through the Exit 18 intersection. That would be
the purpose of that strip, yes.
MR. RUEL-That would be the only purpose,actually.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
MR. RUEL-That's a long, narrow strip.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. You wouldn't develop it as a park. It would
simply be a bike trail for access to the Hudson River Park.
MR. RUEL-Now, in lieu of this, the contractor would have to
submit how much?
MR. GORALSKI-I believe there's eight lots there, $4,000.
MR. RUEL-This would be in lieu of $4,000 to the Rec Commission?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. That's correct.
MR. PALING-John, a chain link fence on the north side will be
placed, who puts that up?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, that is part of the request of the applicant.
As far as the Town is concerned, the Town doesn't have to agree
to any of those conditions. Let me explain. I believe you folks
understand the Recreation Fee law, but let me explain it to you
one more time. The way the law reads is, if you have a
subdivision approved in the Town, you have to dedicate land for
recreation to the Town. In lieu of dedicating land, if the Town
deems there's no appropriate land within that subdivision for
recreation, the Town can require you, instead, to pay a $500 a
lot fee. So the Town's first choice is to say to you, we want
the land. So, although they've requested these certain
conditions, the Town has no obligation to accept those
conditions.
MR. BREWER-So, I guess what we have to weigh, is this piece of
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Queensbury Planning, Boa¡rd Meeting
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land worth against the fees, or is it any value to us?
MR. RUEL-Who would be responsible for the fence?
MR. BREWER-That's between the Town Board and him.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. BREWER-I mean, if the Town Board says, we'll take the land,
but we're not going to put a chain link fence up.
MR. RUEL-Then he'll have to do that.
MR. BREWER-No, not necessarily. If he says, no, you're going to
put a fence up or not get the land, then he pays the $4,000 and
the land stays with him, maybe. I don't know.
MR.
Town
Town
They
GORALSKI-To be honest with you, the way that works is, the
says, we want the land. If you read the Recreation Law, the
can say, we want the land, or you don't get a subdivision.
could do that. T e Town Board could do that.
MR. PALING-Yes. I'm 'ot having any trouble with the land. I
think that's okay, bu~ I am having trouble with specifying the
traffic on there, are e within our legal bounds of doing that,
and they chain link fence, which the applicant is telling that
we've got to do.
MR. GORALSKI-As I said, well, maybe Tim said it. That is a
function of the Town B 'ard. If the Town Board decides to accept
this land, it's up to them to determine if there's going to be
any conditions on that. I mean, if you would like to recommend,
you certainly could ma e the recommendation that yes, you should
agree with those con itions or, no, you shouldn't agree with
those conditions, or you should agree with one and three and not
two, or whatever you ¡want, but it's up to the Town Board,
ultimately, to make th decision. The Recreation Commission will
be doing the same thin ~.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Where does this other strip, who does that belong to,
John?
MR. GORALSKI-He's goi to give that to the adjoining property
owner, so that he will be guaranteed of a buffer between anything
the Town does, and his property.
MR. RUEL-How wide is t
MR. GORALSKI-I believe it's about 15 feet.
MR. MACEWAN-Twenty-two.
MR. RUEL-Is there vege~ation in there now?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Wel~, in most parts there are. In a couple of
spots it's pretty spar e.
MR. RUEL-And I see this letter. Who recommended the chain link
fence?
MR. GORALSKI-The applicant is requesting it. Nobody recommended
it.
MR. PALING-Okay, but t at part does not, we can purposely exclude
these conditions from our resolution and let the Town Board
handle that.
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Queensbury Planning Boatd Meeting 10/17/95
MR. BREWER-We can say, yes, take the land and eliminate the
conditions, or whatever we want to say.
MR. PALING-I wouldn't accept them or reject them, either one.
I'd just let them do it.
MR. BREWER-But I guess we have to decide, do you think the land
is worth it?
i:l'-'fR" M'ACEWANi~I think 'we 'fe complicà.ti ng a very simple procédure.
t.4e éiftltéY" 'say the land I is goòd for "t'he Town'ä 'benefit." and
whate\}èr c'Ondîtió'Ms the Tow'n Board wor ks : out)1 wi:th the apÞI iêant,
that" s up to them. I
MR. STARK-Yes. I concur.
MR. RUEL-Does anyone know how much
Commission now has?
money the Recreation
MR. BREWER-Tons.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Tons.
MR. GORALSKI-It's approximately $450,000.
MR. PALING-Okay, then could we have a motion on this?
MOTION'TO ACCEPT THE LAND IN LIEU OF REC FEES FOR THE JOSEPH AND
DEBRA GROSS SUBDIVISION. AS OUTLINED IN MAP 95073-2, Introduced
by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by George
Star k:
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr.
Paling
NOES: Mr. Brewer
ABSENT: Mr.Obermayer
MRS. LABOMBARD-The next
agenda is concerning Dave
40-94.
item for the resolution part
Kenny and extension for Site
of the
Plan No.
MR. PALING-Is Mr. Kenny here? No. He doesn't have to be here.
MR. RUEL-He's looking for a one year extension from what?
MR. PALING-November 29, 1994.
MR. RUEL-To November 29, 1995? That doesn't make sense.
MR. GORALSKI-It expires on November 29, 1995.
MR. MACEWAN-So lets grant an extension to December 1, 1996.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Right.
MR. GORALSKI-That's what he's asking for.
MOTION TO GRANT AN EXTENSION TO SITE PLAN NO. 40-94 DAVID KENNY
TO DECEMBER 1. 1996, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
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AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO.
SAME AS ABOVE
PROPOSAL IS FOR
SITE PLAN. TAX
SECTION: 179-19
5-92 MODIFICATION RICHARD SCHERMERHORN OWNER:
ZONE: SR-1A LOCATION: MEADOWBROOK ROAD
MODIFICATION TO THE MEADOWBROOK ROAD APARTMENTS
MAP NQ. 46-2-9.4, 9.5 LOT SIZE: + 19.54 ACRES
RICHARD SCHERMERHORN, PRESENT
MR. PALING-Okay. This is just a modification. John?
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 5-92, Richard Schermerhorn,
Meeting Date: October 17, 1995 "The applicant wishes to modify
the existing site pl~n approval to accommodate two additional
rental units. This ~odification would result in a total of
twenty rental units. T1his is a 19.54 acre lot in a SR-1A zone.
The applicant has indilcated to me that he is under contract to
purchase an additional. .5 acre lot contiguous to the P,resent lot
to accommodate the addi,tional densi ty. Because the two
additional units will take the place of areas previously set
aside as storage areas, there will be change in the footprint of
the buildings. There ~re currently forty-eight parking spaces on
the site. The Zoning ~rdinance requires two spaces per dwelling
unit, therefore, no expansion of the parking facilities is
necessary. This pro~osal appears to be in keeping with the
previous approval. I ¡would, however, condition any approval of
this modification on ~he filing of a deed at the Warren County
Clerk's office that re~lects the addition of at least .46 acres
of land to the existi g parcel. The Board should also determine
whether this modifica~ion has any impact on its previous SEQRA
determination."
MR. GORALSKI-Now, with all that said, I've spoken to Rich today,
and spoken to Jim Martin, as Zoning Administrator. Rich has
determined that he has a need to have a rental office at that
site, and instead of þurchasing the additional half acre lot,
what he wants to do, ~orrect me if I'm wrong, Rich, is add one
additional rental uni~, and the remaining space is going to be
his rental office. iSo, that rental office, as part of the
apartment complex, doesn't count toward his density, and so he
has enough for 19 units. He has enough land, presently, for 19
units.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-So this modification would be
area to a rental uni~, and changing one
off ice.
changing one storage
storage area to an
MR. PALING-To an office. Right. Okay.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Richar Schermerhorn.
MR. PALING-Thank you. I just have one question, which I guess I
know the answer to. I the addition that you're purchasing the
same zoning as the one that we have in front of us?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, he' not going to purchase the property now.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
That's what I'm saying. Instead of purchasing the additional
property, to get up to 20 acres, he's going to stick with the
19.54 acres, and only have 19 units plus a rental office.
MR. PALING-So what are we being asked?
MR. BREWER-If he can add one unit~
MR. GORALSKI-Basically to add one unit. Yes.
MR. RUEL-The conditions are the storage area will be converted to
one unit and one office.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. That's it. That's the only modification.
MR. PALING~Okay. Any questions?
MR. BREWER-Just one. What was the original storage area for?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-It was like individual eight by eight storage
units for the tenants, but we ran into somewhat of a problem with
having apart~ents, it was proposed for two 'apartments, where the
storage area is, and having two apart~e~ts uþstairs in an
unheated storage areas would create a problem with pipes freezing
and everything else. So, that's the reason. '
MR. RUEL-The storage areas are not heated.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right.
MR. BRËWER-No problem.
MR. PALING-And bear in mind, we're saying we don't effect the
SEORA, which it doesn't, I don't think.
MOTION TO APPROVE MODIFICATION TO SITE PLAN NO. 5-92 RICHARD
SCHERMERHORN, Introduced by Timothy Brewe1" who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
With no effect to the present determination of the SEORA.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr'¿ P:al i'ng
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr.Obermayer
SUBDIVISION NO. 4-76 MODIFICATION HEATHERBROOKE, LOT 17 AND 18
OWNERS: PETER & SHEILA CHARLSON & MR. & MRS. CHABOT LOCATION:
CANDLEBERRY DRIVE PROPOSAL IS FOR A BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT
BETWEEN LOTS 17 AND 18. SECTION A 183-13 F REQUIRES PLANNING
BOARD APPROVAL FOR ANY MODIFICATION TO AN APPROVED SUBDIVISION.
TAX MAP NO. 149-2-17, 18
STAFF INPUT
N<:>t,es f:¡"o~ Staff " sLibdi v islon No. 4-76,: Modi f ica'tion ,
Heatherbrooke, Lot 17 and':t8, 'Meetit)g D'áte: ÖC't'òber 17, 1995
"Äs the applicant~;s atto'rn'e'Y has indicated in his letter of
September', 18, 1995- this prö'posaf concerns the adjus'tment of the
common Þrö~erty lin~ bètweenlots 11 and 18 of the Heatherbrooke
subdivision. The resultant lots will be 39,016.43 square feet
and 36,923.15 square feet respectively~ At the time this
subdivision was approved, in 1977, the minimum lot size required
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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in this zone was 12,000 square feet. This proposal does not
appear to have any imp~ct on the neighborhood character or on the
environment. I would recommend that the Board review the Short
EAF since there was nd formal environmental review conducted at
the time this subdivis~on was originally approved."
MR. GORALSKI-And I have received a copy of a Short EAF from them.
MR. PALING-You want us to do this, you're saying?
MR. GORALSKI-I would recommend
review. Yes. See, there was
Review Act in 1977. So when this
was no environmental review.
that you do an environmental
no State Environmental Quality
subdivision was approved, there
MR. PALING-All right. Lets do one, then. Do you want us to use
what you've got in your hand?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. If you'd like, I can read the pertinent
items here. This is ~art I of the Short EAF. The applicant is
Peter & Sheila Charls9n. This is a boundary line adjustment in
the Town of Queensbury,' County of Warren, Lots 17 and 18 of the
Heatherbrooke Subdivis~on, west side of Candleberry Drive. The
proposed action is a mqdification. The project described is back
yard boundary line a~justment, 4,003.99 square feet of land.
Will the proposed act10n comply with the existing zoning and
other existing land u~e restrictions? Yes. What is the present
land use in the vicin~ty of the project? Residential. Does the
action involve the permit approval or funding of any other
governmental agency? No. Does any aspect of the action have
current valid approval? Yes. The Heatherbrooke subdivision,
filed in June of 1977. As a result of the proposed action, will
existing permit or approval require modification? The answer to
that should be yes. That's what we're doing right here, and it's
signed Sheila Char lson.j
i
MR. RUEL-Do we still have to do the Short· Envi-rQnmental
Assessment Form?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. I ~ould recommend that you, if you'd like, I
can go through Part I Ii of the Assessment Form for you, and you
can answer the question .
MR. PALING-That's
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDI ISION NO. 4-76 WITH THE MODIFICAT ON OF A
NEGATIVE DEC FOR THE SE RA, Introduced by Catherine LaBomba)-d who
moved for its adoption,1 seconded by Roger Ruel:
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
,
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. aBombard~ Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
Brewer
NO,ES : NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. MacEwa
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
SUBDIVISION NO.
ERMIGER OWNER:
9 (WEST SIDE)
PARCEL INTO 2
4 LOT SIZE:
13-1995 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED KENNETH
SAME A ABOVE ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: NYS RT.
PROPOSA IS TO SUBDIVIDE AN 8.4 ACRE COMMERCIAL
LOTS OF 5.6 ACRES AND 2.8 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 73-1-
8.4 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
JOHN RAY, REPRESENTING PPLICANT, PRESENT
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 13-1995 Final Stage, Kenneth
Ermiger, Meeting Date: October 17, 1995 "This subdivision
received preliminary approval in September. The only stipulation
on that approval was that the two lots share a common driveway.
It appears that several property owners within 500' feet of the
subject parcel were not informed of the September 21, 1995 public
hearing. All of these property owners have since been notified
and another public hearing has been advertised for tonight. I
recommend that the Board hold another public hearing and that the
SEQRA resolution be revised 'if the public hearing raises any
issues that were not previously addressed."
MR. PALING-Okay. Is the print that we have from before current,
the print we can go by?
MR. GORALSKI-The plan hasn't changed.
MR. 'RAY-John' 'Ray, from Rehm and:Ray, on behalf' of the å'pplicant.
What you 'received a't the' pr~l.iminary;Îii's:'exactly the'same as what
you recèi ved.
I.,· ,
"
MR. PALING-Okay, and that shared drive 'is like t..:.,,;,shaped?
~. j - ¡
MR. GORALSKI-No. It's shown.
MR. PALING-Straight in.
MR. GORALSKI-Straddling the line.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Any questions or comments?
MR. BREWER-Does this mean, John, that we have to, technically, do
preliminary over again?
MR. GORALSKI-No, it doesn't. I would just recommend that you
hold another public hearing at final.
MR. PALING-Okay, and if it has no effect on the SECRA, we're
okay, but if it does,then we've got to re-do SECRA.
MR. GORALSKI-Exactly.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. If there are no other comments, why
don't we open the public hearing ón this matter. Is there anyone
from the public that would care to comment on this?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-All right. Then we'Ye back where we were. There is
no comment from the public. Then we can proceed with a motion.
We don't have to do anything else.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 13-1995 KENNETH
ERMIGER, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Catherine LaBombard:
Only condition being that the two lots share a common driveway.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer,
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
MR. GORALSKI-Mr. Palin~, I promised Pam that I would mention that
it was no fault of hers that the people were not notified.
MR. PALING-No. We understand that. It was, I believe, the fault
of the applicant that the notification wasn't correct, but the
matter's corrected now, put to bed.
MR. GORALSKI-I'm not pointing blame at anyone. I just promised
Pam I'd let everyone know it wasn't her fault.
MR. PALING-Okay.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 52-95 TYPE: UNLISTED TOP OF THE WORLD AUTO BODY
OWNER: STANLEY F. GA NON, JR. ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: 619
QUAKER ROAD PROPOSAL ¡IS TO ADD THREE (3) ADDITIONAL REPAIR BAYS
AND DOWNDRAFT SPRAY/BA~E REFINISHING BOOTH. ALL LAND USES IN THE
HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL Z 'NE ARE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW.
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 10/9/95 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 10/11/95
TAX MAP NO. 109-3-4 L T SIZE: +1- 3,508 ACRES SECTION: 179-23
STAN GANNON, REPRESENTXNG APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Sit Plan No. 52-95, Top of the World Auto
Body, Meeting Date: ctober 17, 1995 "The proposed addition
will have little affect: on the visual impact of the structure on
the site. The additi n is on the rear of the existing building
and the resultant structure is well below the allowable density
for the lot. The addition should have no impact on stormwater
runoff since the area ¡of construction is nonpermeable at this
time. The current pafking facilities appear to be adequate to
handle the additional uilding area. An issue related to parking
is the storage of dama ed vehicles in the front of the building.
Because the addition ill be occupying an area previously used
for parking, the Boar should be sure that this will not mean
more damaged vehicles being stored in the front of the building.
If the storage of damaged vehicles in the front of the building
is a necessity some ve etative screening should be provided."
No
County Impact,
and
MR. GORALSKI-Warren County said
Beautification Committ e approved.
MR. PALING-But they di n't seem to have any comments.
MR. GORALSKI-"Motion m de to accept plan as is."
MR. PALING-Because it' in the rear, that they didn't feel it
would have any aesthetic affect, I would assume.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. PALING-Okay. Any qomme.nts from the Board right now?
MR. GANNON-I'm Stan Ga non, owner of Top of the World Auto Body.
MR. PALING-Okay. Tha k you. You have a nice looking facility
there now. I'm sure n thing you're going to do in the future is
going to change it.
MR. GANNON-No.
discussed at the Beautification Committee
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Queensbury Planning Board Meet1nglO/17/95
was, in the spring we're going to have it already blacktopped,
and then we were going to put a split rail fence and shrubs along
the edge of the parking lot to at least hide the vehicles, but
the reason we parked them out in the front is because our frame
equipment on the front is kind of on the downhill. So we have to
roll them into the garage, but I always keep the buses and trucks
and anything really moveable out back. At one time, I tried
parking all the cars out back, but people would come in and be
like, are you going out of business? So, it really does have a
big impact.
MR. RUEL-This comment about damaged cars in the front, would you
address that?
MR. BREWER-He just did.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. PALING-I have no further questions.
MRS. LABOMBARD-We were there, and you told us exactly what you
were doing, and it sounds great.
MR. RUEL-Does the permeability change?
MR. GORALSKI-No. Actually, the permeability is staying the same,
because I don't think it's actually blacktopped back there, but
it's compacted gravel. It's basically non permeable.
MR. RUEL-Well, gravel is not permeable.
MR. GORALSKI-Not when it's compacted after cars are rolling over
it fo)- years.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Right.
MR. PALING-Yes. I don't think we can consider it permeable
anyway, even before compacting. Okay. Now this is an unlisted
action. So we need a SEQRA. A public hearing first. All right.
If there are no other comments, we'll open the public hea)-ing on
the Top of the World Auto Body application.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. GORALSKI-I have a letter here, from Garden Time. "Please be
advised that Garden Time, Inc. duly endorses a positive
recommendation for the addition to the Top of the World Auto
Body. We continue to look forward to quality commercial
neighbors, such as Stan Gannon, in the future development of the
Quaker Road corridor. Sincerely, Frederick D. Troelstra, Manager
of Garden Time"
MR. PALING-Okay. Any comment from anyone about this? Okay. If
there is no comment from the public, then we're going to close
the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-Tim, go ahead.
MR. BREWER-You're going to have a, what kind of booth is it?
It's going to bake the enamel finishes?
MR. GANNON-Yes. What
tougher on the VOC's in
up here, but this is a
the water's jetted, and
through, it'll trap it
it is is, basically, they're getting
the State. It's kind of working it's way
water filtrated filtration system, where
as the isocyanides and all that stuff go
all, and then it filters it all out
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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through the water, and emits less VOC's in the air. Plus they're
starting to change paints, like everything's urethane now. We
don't see much enamel. Now they're going to water borne. So
I'll be painting cars with water.
MR. BREWER-So it's jus~ a new and improved booth, is what it is,
basically.
MR. GANNON-Yes.
MR. RUEL-That's what the downdraft means?
MR. GANNON-Well, downdraft basically means that it sucks the air
underneath the car, lets it come in. It's positive pressure. It
takes the exact same amount out as goes in. So there's no really
swirling air in the bodth to create dust.
MR. RUEL-Where does this water go?
MR. GANNON-It's in a self-contained tank. It's about 30 gallons,
and it just keeps gettíng filtered.
MR. RUEL-All the same water?
MR. GANNON-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Stan, what are VOC's, and what about isocyanides?
I
MR. GANNON-Well, VOC's 'are volatile organic compounds, which a)"e
basically stuff that's.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Pretty ~oxic.
MR. GANNON-Yes, and ki¡nd of floats around, and what we're trying
to do is to minimize tHe stuff we're going to, it's hard, because
it'll shoot out in the atmosphere and float around. We're trying
to trap them.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And ~he
contami nates, poisons. I
isocyanides.
Obviously,
they're
MR. GANNON-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And you just capture those and dispose of them
somehow?
MR. GANNON-Well, the w~ter traps them and it kind of washes them
down a shoot, and th n it goes to a filtration system, and
filters right now, sin~e we have the burn plant, you can either
wash them out, becaus~ as long as it gets into like a dry form,
then it's not really tqxic, but the filters can be thrown out, if
they're in a bUTn plant. Otherwise, you can have a company come
in and package them for, them and then throw them out.
MR. RUEL-What government agencies are involved? OSHA?
MR. PALING-In the permit process, you mean?
MR. RUEL-Yes, as far as spray painting, toxic materials, etc.
MR. GANNON-Well, right now, it seems like no one's really
enforcing it out there. We're kind of getting ready for it,
because down state you have to, we're getting a new computer in
where we have to keep t-ack of how much paint we mix, how much is
sprayed, how much is uoed, and keep that a record. Down state
they have to do that no , and it's working its way up here.
MR. RUEL-They come into your place periodically and check.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. GANNON-And audit, yes.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-It's not actually a permit. What it is,
a police power, where they just keep track of what's
They don't actually issue a permit.
is more of
going on.
MR. RUEL-But there are certain requirements to be met, certain
specifications.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. GANNON-The only permits
in New York State, is stack
get those. Now any time
anything like that, we have
. . ~
we have to get now, it's a new thing
permits, where we used to not have to
we have a new fan on the wall or
to get a stack permit with the State.
I, '
MR. BREWER-Pretty much it's putting the little guys in the garage
out in back, putting them out of business.
MR. RUEL-No, not really. They just don~t report.
MR. BREWER-Well.
MR. PALING-All right. Can we move to the SEQRA on this then?
MR. RUEL-Short or Long?
MR. PALING-This is, Unlisted. Short Form.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTIO~ NO. 52-95, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
ad'd'pt ion, seco'nd'ed by Georg.e' Star k:
WHEREAS, there
applicafIon; 'for:
~ . . , ,
IS presenfly before the I "Pl'anni n9
TOP or- THE WORLD AUTO BODY; a Í1d '
, ,
Soard
an
WHEREAS, this' P'.fànni ngBoa'rd has dètê'i"mine'd that the proposed
piojectandPlan~~ngrgoard action ís subject to r~view under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following ag.encies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Ässessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered th.e crit.eria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
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Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declar~tion that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr.Obermayer
MR. PALING-Okay. Then I think the only thing we have left to do
is to make a motion for this.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN O.
BODY, Introduced by Roger Ruel
~nded by Timothy Brdwer:
52-95 TOP OF THE WORLD AUTO
who moved for its adoption,
To add three repair bays and downdraft spraylbake refinishing
booth.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermaysr
SITE PLAN NO. 51-95 TYPE: UNLISTED RAY & WENDY KRAFT OWNERS:
SAME AS ABOVE DBA/SHI I SHAPE ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: FROM BAY
RD. TURN INTO GLENWOD - 2ND BUILDING ON LEFT "SHIP SHAPE"
APPLICANT PROPOSES AN ~DDITION TO THE REAR OF THE BUILDING FOR
STORAGE. ALL LAND THE HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONE ARE
SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN R WARREN CO. PLANNING: 10/11/95 TAX
MAP NO. 62-1-8.31 LOT 1,803.32 SQ. FT. SECTION: 179-23
RAY & WENDY KRAFT, PRE
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 51-95, Ray & Wendy Kraft, Meeting
Date: October 17, 1995 "Upon review of the development
considerations set f rth in Section 179-38 of the Zoning
Ordinance it appears that many of the considerations are not
addressed on the site plan that was included with the
application. There is no indication of the adequacy and
arrangement of vehicular traffic access and circulation. The
plan should show ingress and egress points as well as parking
layout and pedestr ian Ici rculation. The plan does not indicate
any type of landscapin on the site. According to the plan, the
existing building is right on the front property line. The use
of landscaping would minimize the visual impact of the structure.
This is not a large a dition and it appears that all applicable
requirements can be adequately accommodated. It is simply a
matter of providing the information on the plan."
MR. GORALSKI-It's not a big addition. It's just that the plan
doesn't have a lot of information on it.
MR. PALING-But you are raising questions regarding some pretty
necessary information.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. GORALSKI-As I said, I don't really think that this addition
is going to impact any of those items. It's just that they're
not on the plan.
MR. PALING-Yes. Ship Shape, that lot just kind of merges with
the Tennis Club, doesn't it?
MRS. KRAFT-No. It's separated by a fence.
MR. PALING-Is there a fence in there? Okay.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It kind of merges with that building that faces
Bay Road that's adjacent to it.
MRS. KRAFT-Dr. Wasserman's Office.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Right.
MR. PALING-Yes. Okay. Would you identify yourselves, please?
MRS. KRAFT-My name is Wendy Kraft.
property.
I'm the owner of the
MR. KRAFT-Ray Kraft.
MR. RUEL-This elevation, what view is this?
MRS. KRAFT-The back.
MR. RUEL-Rear?
apparently, is
system?
Okay. I had a question
going to be built over the
about, the
pipe for
addition,
the septic
MR. KRAFT-Yes.
MR. RUEL-And you have a foundation, what, about four feet down?
MR. KRAFT-Now, no.
MR. RUEL-Proposed.
MR. KRAFT-Yes.
MR. RUEL-And how far down is this ~ipe in the ground? Would the
foundation be over the pipe?
MR. KRAFT-No, through it.
MR. RUEL-Do you know how far down the pipe is?
MR. KRAFT-Two or three feet.
MR. RUEL-So it'll be going through that area?
MR. KRAFT-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Is that a crawl space, or is that open, no filled?
MR. KRAFT-Filled.
MR. RUEL-So the pipe, then, will be essentially the same as it
was before? Two feet under ground, and it still will be two feet
underground?
MR. KRAFT-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Okay, and the new structure will be 20 feet away from
the property line?
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. KRAFT-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Which meets the side yard requirements. Although the
other requirements a~parently are grandfathered, or ancient,
right? One is 15, and you're right on the front line. That's
all l. had.
MR. PALING-Okay. What other questions do we have?
MR. RUEL-And this plan will be modified to respond to the
comments that this gentleman made?
MRS. KRAFT-Whatever he requires that we didn't give him, we'd be
more than happy to give him.
MR. RUEL-Well, apparently some of these comments were made in the
document, but they weren't included on the plan. Is that right?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, you know, there's no parking plan.
MRS. KRAFT-There never has been a parking plan. It's only
crushed stone, and the lot, but the lot is quite large. People
really don't stay for very long at Ship Shape. They stoP. They
ship a package, they get in their car, and they drive away.
Honestly, most people pull up to the front door.
MR. RUEL-Is this a requirement for the application.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, what I would like to see, I mean, obviously,
they can fit the required parking spaces. I'd just like to have
it on a plan somewher , so that somebody doesn't come in, later
on, and say, well, lo k what they handed in, and why can't I do
the same thing when it may be a significant issue.
MRS. KRAFT-If you're familiar with the lot, there is an area of
grass that's probably 10 foot in perimeter around the lot, which
we are going to additionally stone, since it's very difficult to
mow because the stone in it all the time anyway. We decided
since we were going to lose a little bit of where the cars drive
through that we would simply stone that area as well.
MR. GORALSKI-Unfortuntely, the other issue is, I think the
entire lot is stone, at this point. There is no permeability. I
mean, I think it woul improve the site if there was a little
landscaping there, or something to.
MR. BREWER-I would agr
had talked to the Beautification
would be a good idea to plant a
fence was, but we determined that
the lot if we did.
MR. PALING-Has the Bea tification Committee commented on this?
MR. GORALSKI-I don't b lieve they did look at it.
MR. PALING-There's nothing from them.
MRS. KRAFT-At one ti e we
Committee. They tho ght it
couple of trees where ehe rail
it would be impossible to plow
MR. RUEL-Is there a curb along the front? There's no driveway or
anything?
MR. PALING'-No.
MR. RUEL-It's just fl,t. There is a designated parking lot for
this?
MRS. KRAFT-There is no lawn. It is all lot.
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Queensbury Planni ng Board Meeting ·'·10/17/95
MR. BREWER-Is there some way possible you can come out, how far
away is that septic line from the building? I'm a little bit
confused, because I don't see any doors or anything on the
building. I mean, I've been there before.
MR. KRAFT-Yes. I'll show you. Here it is right here.
out, the septic line is right there.
It comes
M~. BREWER-Right. The door is going to remain here?
MR. KRAFT-And they'll end up out here.
MR. BREWER-Okay. So why couldn't we do something with, if
everybody's with me on this sheet, if we could maybe put some
kind of landscaping here to keep people off this area, or
whatever. I mean, the door's going to be back here. Just to put
something there, rather than just stone, and then if he plows,
when he comes in, he doesn't necessarily have to get right to the
building.
MR. KRAFT-Right now, there's a planter box on this side of the
building.
MR. BREWER-He's on the east side, what he's pointing to. I'm
talking about the west side.
MR. MACEWAN-On the dentist's side of the building, there's a
planter box with little evergreens in there.
MR. BREWER-But if we did something on the west
the line where the septic, that must be the
right there, right?
side, say out to
distribution box
MR. KRAFT-It's where the back water valve is located.
MR. BREWER-Out to that line, you see where the outside line of
that is, and made some kind of beds or something there.
MR. RUEL-You don't want anyone to go over there?
MR. BREWER-Exactly.
MRS. KRAFT~It's a traffic box that the Town made me put in,
because that's where my main flow of traffic is, for people to
pull in, with boxes. They park there to unload. So they made me
put in a commercial traffic box there on my septic.
MR. BREWER-Right. You're putting the door beyond that point, is
what I'm saying. Right?
MRS. KRAFT-Right.
MR. BREWER-The new door is going to be beyond that point. So if
you put some kind of bed or row of shrubi or something right
there, that would at least give you some vegetation that John's
asking for.
MR. RUEL-Also, it wouldn't be too difficult to show where cars
would enter and exit and show the approximate area of where they
would park. Could you do that?
MRS. KRAFT-Well, I think the biggest problem we're going to run
i nt,o is about six i nc:ihes down through that crushed stone is a
layer of blacktop.
MR. MACEWAN-What's the problem with putting in a planter like
what's on the east side of the building?
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MRS. KRAFT-He could build a planter box.
MR. MACEWAN-Do that.
MRS. KRAFT-If you're acceptable to that, I have no problem with
that.
MR. MACEWAN-What's wrong with that? It would balance off the
building on top of that, have them build a planter on the west
side of the building that like on the east side of the building.
MR. PALING-Okay. That would help.
MR. MACEWAN-It balances it off, because you're putting evergreens
in there, and you don't have to worry about going more than six
inches down.
MR. STARK-I had a suggestion that maybe postpone it a week, come
back next week with a more detailed plan of the plantings and
parking, and the elimination of the green area in the back, the
grass and so on, and then you'd have a plan on file, and I don't
think a week would be an imposition.
MR. PALING-And I don't think
plan. You can even a d it to
sheet up.
George is asking for an elaborate
this sheet, just by marking this
MR. GORALSKI-It's up t you if you want them to come back, but if
you put a condition th~t they put a planter on the west side, and
that they show a parking layout on the plan, even if it's the
existing parking, I assume it's going to be the existing parking
layout anyway. I think those were the major items.
MR. MACEWAN-I can't s e them having to come back, if we tie in
our approval to that.
,
MRS. KRAFT-How about if we just tell you we'll get it to him?
MR. GORALSKI-Right, be~ore we issue a building permit, we'll have
a revised plan.
MR. MACEWAN-How about if we just do it this way, prior to a
building permit being issued, the plan has to be modified to meet
the needs.
MR. BREWER-But lets make it
asking for, so they don't
aski ng for.
clear to the
come without
applicant what
something that
we're
we're
MR. PALING-All right. At this point, lets open the public
hearing on this matter. Is there anyone here that would like to
comment on this matter, for Ship Shape?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-Okay. Now e should go to a SEQRA. This is Unlisted.
Shor t Fo,·m.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMIN TION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE I MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 51-95, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
adoption, seconded by eorge Stark:
WHEREAS, there is presently
before the Planning Board an
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
application for: RAY & WENDY KRAFT, and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are in0olved:
NONE
3; The 'proposed' action considered by this Boa'fd is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
appl icant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
DJly adoþted this 17th'day
\/ot.'e:' I
of October, 1995,
I ,.' ..
b'/ the
following
,
': ¡
AYES: Mr. MàcE'wan~ Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBö'mbard, Mr'. Rue'1,
Mr '. Brewer, Mr. Pali ng
NOES: NONE
"~I
A'aSENT: Mr. Ùbei"mayer
MR. PALING-Okay. We're done with the SEQRA, the public hearing.
I guess we can go right to a motion, unless there's any further
comments?
MR. BREWER-I just have one question. On Warren County it says
the site plan review for an addition to the rear of the building
for dogs and storage. How many dogs?
MRS. KRAFT-Two yellow labradors.
MR. PALING-I missed that one.
MR. GORALSKI-It"s on the application.
MR. BREWER-Why would you put that if there's just two dogs?
MR. MACEWAN-Think of it as a nu,"sery for two dogs, not a kennel.
MRS: KRAFT-Thank you very much. It's not a kennel, but I bring
my dogs to work with me, and at Christmas time, I need a place to
get them out from underneath my feet when everybody's bringing in
their packages. So when they wanted to know whatever use of that
room was going to be, I said mostly for storage, but it's also
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
10/17/95
going to be a place for those dqgs tq go and play during
Christmas time.
MR. BREWER-Just two dogs.
MRS. KRAFT-Exactly.
MR. PALING-Okay, and you have no commercial idea in mind, now or
in the future, concerning dogs or anything else?
MRS. KRAFT-I'm not going to have a pet shop there.
going to be a kennel.
It's not
MR. PALING-You look like you have a motion coming.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 51-95 RAY & WENDY KRAFT,
Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded
by George Stark:
With the following conqitions: The parking plan is provided on
the plan, pedestrian dirculation provided on the plan, and one
planter on the west side, equal to or greater than the planter on
the east side, and it shall be noted on the plan prior to
issuance of a building permit.
Duly adopted this 17tH day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
SITE PLAN NO. 53-95 TYPE: UNLISTED ANTHONY RICCIARDELLI
OWNER: ANTHONY & CAROL RICCIARDELLI ZONE: MR-5 LOCATION: MR-
5 LOCATION: CORNER OF GLENWOOD AVE. AND WESTWOOD NEAR
QUEENSBURY RACKET CLU, AND ACROSS FROM QUEENS BURY TOWN COURT.
APPLICANT PROPOSES A 40' WIDE BY 68' LONG ONE STORY ADDITION TO
EXISTING ONE STORY RES~DENCE. ENTIRE STRUCTURE TO BE USED AS A
PROFESSIONAL OFFICE. ALL USES IN THE MR-5 ZONE ARE SUBJECT TO
SITE PLAN REVIEW. ' BE UTIFICATION COMM.: 10/9/95 WARREN CO.
PLANNING: 10/11/95 T X MAP NO. 61-1-26 LOT SIZE: .537 ACRES
SECTION: 179-18
BYRON RIST, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
TONY RICCIARDELLI, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 53-95, Anthony Ricciardelli,
Meeting Date: October 17, 1995 "This proposal is for a large
addition and conversion of an existing single family dwelling to
an office. Because this lot abuts a residential development it
is important to screen the commercial use from the residential
use. - The plan indicates that there will be lighting on the
west and north side of the addition adjacent to the residential
uses. These fi:<turesshould be specified so that they will not
wash onto the adjoining property. - The plan shows a proposed
24' driveway that narrows to approximately 14' along the
building. The zoning ordinance requires this access aisle to be
a minimum of 20' wide. It appears that there is sufficient room
on this side of the building to meet the requirement. - Although
the applicant has shown the required 22 parking spaces, they may
not need to construct all of these spaces at this time. I would
recommend that the two spaces in front of the building and
possibly spaces 11 & 12 be constructed only if they become
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Queensbury Planning 'Board Meeting 10/17/95
necessary. - The access aisle in the parking lot is shown as 30'
wide. This could be narrowed to 24' and a wider buffer could be
provided along the perimeter of the lot. The adequacy of
stormwater management facilities will be reviewed by Rist-Frost.
As stated previously, the buffer zone between the residential
and commercial uses is an important issue. I would recommend
that a specific landscaping plan be submitted which will mitigate
the impacts on the residential uses."
MR. PALING-Okay. Do you want to cover the Rist-Frost comments,
John?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. The Warren County Planning Board approved.
Beautification Committee, there was a little confusion that
night. Apparently, Mr. Ricciardelli, or his representative were
there, and they couldn't get in the building.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-I'm Tony Ricciardelli. That was Columbus Day,
and the building was locked apparently.
MR. GORALSKI-They did have the meeting, apparently. There was
another applicant, I believe, on next week's agenda, who had the
same problem, and I believe Mr. Ricciardelli's agreed that he
would go back to the Beautification Committee.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right.
MR. GORALSKI-The Rist-Frost letter. "We have reviewed the above
site plans received October 11, 1995 and have the following
engineering comments: Access aisle to rear parking area may be
required to be 20' wide (Queensbury Standard Section 179-66 B),
currently shown as 13' wide. Indication of proposed site
elevations should be shown, for drainage purposes, and to show
that site is not subject to nearby flood plain. Plan should
indicate that steps to control construction related runoff are to
be utilized, where necessary to protect adjoining property, and
the nearby existing catch basins. The design basis for the
placement and proposed sizing for the stormwater management
devices was not included for our review. Installation details
for the devices proposed should also be shown. This was reviewed
with applicant's agent 10/16/95 and 10/17/95 via telephone and
fax. These discussions also indicated that a county storm sewer
is present on Glenwood, and Warren County apparently has
indicated that some or all of the increased runoff may be
discharged to it. Please call if you have any questions. Very
truly yours, RIST-FROST ASSOCIATES, P.C. William E. McNamara,
P.E., Project Engineer"
MR. PALING-Okay. Do you have any other comments on this, John?
MR. GORALSKI-Not at this point.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-I've got a couple of questions. What is the side yard
requirement on this?
MR. GORALSKI-Ten feet.
MR. RUEL-Ten. Okay. Now it seems to me that with this
additional proposed parking and building and everything, whatever
happened to the permeable area percentage?
MR. GORALSKI-They have the 30 percent permeable.
MR. RUEL-It meets it?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, it does.
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Oueensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. RUEL-With Just that small grassy area around the edge?
MR. GORALSKI-And the gYassed area in the front.
MR. RUEL-That covers it?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. ThiYty percent isn't a lot, when you got down
to it.
MR. RUEL-AIl right. The only other comment I would have is that
when the applicant, if it's exterior lighting, I think he shows
about six area lights, that be sure that the lights don't shine
on Westwood or on any of the adjacent properties in the
neighborhood, because in many instances I've seen area lighting
situated in such a way that it shines right on people's homes, or
right in the road as ydu drive by, and to be very careful to make
sure that it's Just t 'e area. If it's flood 1 ights that just
shine in the area and not the whole neighborhood.
MR. GORALSKI-Could I comment on that? I think you should really
be specific on that. I'm having a major battle right now on
lighting, in a project in Town.
MR. RUEL-What kind of Code do we have on that?
MR. GORALSKI-The only Code we have is basically your power in the
site plan review t minimize the impact on neighboring
properties.
MR. RUEL-We can make that a condition?
MR. PALING-Part of the motion.
MR. GORALSKI-Right, bwt I guess what I'm saying is, I think you
should be specific in how you word that in your motion, because
I'm having a major battle right now.
MR. RUEL-Because I see a lot of violations in that area
throughout Queensbury.
MR. GORALSKI-Right,
It's Just your power
said, there's no specific Code.
site plan review.
MR. RUEL-I see. It would be something to recommend
to include some day, i a Code, to control this, so
have to add this condition constantly, every
exterior lighting.
to Jim Martin
that we don't
time there's
MR. BREWER-Is this an application that was here last year, or the
year before? Wasn't there one?
MR. GORALSKI-There was a previous application for
Associates for their, actually a planning office. Yes.
Avalon
MR. RICCIARDELLI-It's the
acquired this property.
applications.
same existing building, but I just
I have no knowledge about any prior
MR. BREWER-Well, previous to you, there was an applicant in here
to do something similar.
MR. MACEWAN-He had no addition.
MR. BREWER-Not anything that big, but there was a professional
office going to go in there, wasn't there?
MR. STARK-No. He was going to use the existing structure.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. BREWER-Exactly. That's what I said. Nothing
addition, but there was a professional office that was
go in there two or three years ago.
like this
going to
MR. MACEWAN-Three years ago.
MR. GORALSKI-Right, '93.
MR. RUEL-I understand that what you propose, architecturally,
will be very similar to the buildings in the Westwood area. Is
that it?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-That's correct, yes. We were working with
Harvest Homes, which is the Woodbury Group, which were the
developers of Westwood, to supply the package to us, so that we
will use exactly the same materials, siding, windows, color
scheme, roof shingles, everything.
MR. RUEL-Yes. It would be nice if we had an elevation plan, but
it will be similar to the existing building, then, just an
extension of it?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Similar to the existing building, ~ existing
building?
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-No.
MR. RUEL-Will you be changing the existing building?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-The existing building will be stripped. The
siding will be stripped. The roof will be stripped, and it will
all blend into the addition, and again, the intent is to have the
whole structure, including the existing building.
MR. PALING-Why don't you put that right up on the board.
MR. RUEL-And also, John made the comment about buffer zone. I
guess he's talking about area like parking spaces 11 and 12, and
that area. A heavier, a denser, larger buffer zone between your
property, parking lot, and Westwood. Do you have any intentions
of doing that?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Well, two things. First of all, I would welcome
the reduction in the number of parking spaces. We don't need
them. I have 11 full time employees. It's not like a doctors
office where you have a waiting room full of patients or clients.
We get very few clients visiting our office, and actually the
majority of our staff are working out of the office. So I don't
need that much parking.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
areas?
How did you arrive at this number of parking
MR. RICCIARDELLI-That's what I was told the Code.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. The Code requires 22
Rist today, if you subtract storage areas
I think you can eliminate two more.
now. Speaking to Mr.
and that type of thing,
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Corridors, stairwells.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. RUEL-What is the number of parking areas predicated on, in
this case?
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. GORALSKI-I believe it's 150 per square foot of gross leasable
floor area.
MR. RUEL-It seems like an awful lot of parking spaces for that
addition.
MR. GORALSKI-That's why I'm saying, I think you could, you know,
they're showing that they can provide that many, but the Board
has the discretion to say, well, you know, 'just build 20 or just
build 18 at this point, and if it becomes an issue, they can
build the one, the other ones in the future.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
area way in
going.
I'd like to
the back there,
see it minimized, especially in the
in order to get that buffer zone
MR. BREWER-Why can't we do something similar like we did with
Aviation Mall, and maybe eliminate, he's got 20 places. You've
got 11 people, say maybe cut it back to where nine and fourteen
meet, and he can still show that he can provide the parking if
necessary, and just leave that as natural buffer.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. STARK-You have a tenant in mind?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Actually, it's sort of owner occupied. My
accounting firm will be the tenant, although I have partners in
the accounting firm, and it's my wife and I who own this
property. So, technically, the accounting firm will be leasing
from my wife and I.
MR. STARK-How many par
spots do you want?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-How
parking spots do L want? Probably 16.
MR. RUEL-How many are there now, 20?
MR. PALING-It shows 20 on the print.
MR. GORALSKI-They're sowing 22, with two in the front of the
building.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-That woul be 16,
you'd eliminate the t 0 in the
You'd be at 16.
came to nine and fourteen, and
front and the four in the rear.
MR. PALING-At least four in the rear, yes.
MR. RUEL-And this tra h/storage, could that be moved elsewhere,
so it isn't that close to the rear of the property?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-If in fact that, you know, eliminate four spaces
on the back, 10, 11, 12 and 13.
MR. RUEL-Then you coul move it.
MR. BREWER-I would say even nine and fourteen, couldn't he?
MR. RUEL-Yes. Are you eliminating 21 and 22 also?
MR. GORALSKI-If I can ake a recommendation on 21 and 22, I think
that because, like th property to the west of Westwood is a
residential property, and I believe the property to the east of
this property is still a residential property, I would recommend
that you don't put parking spaces out in front of that building.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
Try to keep the residential character on that side of the street.
So I would recommend that those not be built currently.
MR. RUEL-But there's a long ramp there.
too residential to me.
That ramp doesn't look
MR. GORALSKI-That's a concrete walk.
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-So I would say that those, you know, he's showing
that he can fit two spaces there, legally, but there's no reason
to build them if he doesn't need them, and ruin the residential
character of, I mean, that's what they're architecturally trying
to.
MR. RUEL-Yes, right, and currently you don't.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-The intent
could provide the required
those two parking spaces out
parking spots in the rear.
of this plan was to show that we
parking. I would rather not have
front, and even two or four of the
MR. RUEL-So you would like to eliminate seven parking spaces.
MR. GORALSKI-Six.
MR. BREWER-We have the authority to grant that, don't we, Mark?
MR. SCHACHNER-As long as the adequate space is shown so that the
parking spaces could be there.
MR. PALING-Yes. Okay.
MR. RUEL-This porch, that's not going to remain there, is it?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Yes, it is.
MR. RUEL-How do you leave a porch there and have a proposed
office over it?
MR. GORALSKI-He's talking about the one in the rear.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-I'm sorry.
be torn off.
That one will be removed.
That'll
MR. RUEL-I wasn't indicated.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-No. I see what you're saying. That'll be gone.
MR. PALING'-And
proposed is 24
wants a minimum
requirement. Had
before?
lets talk a minute about the driveway, plan
foot, narrows to 14 foot. The Zoning Ordinance
of 20 on the side of the building to meet the
you seen this, have you seen these comments
MR. RIST-I just got them.
MR. PALING-Okay.
paragraph two?
What's your comment to that paragraph, sub
I think this existing plan, we were under the misunderstanding
that the paving should stay 10 feet away from the east boundary
of the property, and I think we've now determined that we don't
have that setback requirement.
MR. GORALSKI-Five feet.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Five feet. So if we can pave within five feet
of the boundary, we can expand the width of that drive.
MR. PALING-Then the driveway becomes, what, 19 feet?
MR. GORALSKI-We also have a gravel area between the driveway and
the building, and once they work out the details of their
stormwater management plan, that probably won't have to be that
wide either. So they should be able to fit the 20 foot wide
drive aisle there.
MR. PALING-Okay. In the motion, when we get to that point, do
you want to talk 20 feet wide?
MR. GORALSKI-That's the Zoning Ordinance requirement. You can't
approve it if he can't put that 20 foot drive aisle in there.
MR. PALING-Okay. Required.
have we got to talk ab ut?
John, what in the Rist-Frost thing
MR. GORALSKI-Well, basically, although this is not a large
project, Bill hasn't ot the information he needs to properly
review the plan at this time. He spoke with Mr. Rist about it
today, and they've been working it out, but Bill, after talking
to him, he can't give his blessing to the project at this time.
One recommendation Bill had, and I concurred with, is that if the
applicant could get t e stuff to him, say by Friday, it wouldn't
take him long to revie it, and he would be glad to have it ready
and reviewed by Tuesday night's meeting, if you got it, if he got
the stuff by Friday afternoon.
MR. PALING-Is the stormwater management his only problem, or is
there other things?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. The other issues were, I believe, the same as
I had, regarding the rive aisle, and then, I don't know if he
mentioned the buffers or not. I'm not sure.
MR. PALING-Yes, well, that's mentioned in your letter.
The site elevations can be shown in the coming week,
assume. Construction related runoff. Yes. Okay.
addressed that in your letter, the buffer.
Okay.
I would
You've
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I think because of the different uses, the
residential use and th office use, that I would recommend that
the Board have some tpe of landscaping or buffering plan around
the perimeter, on file so that when we go out to issue a
Certificate of Occupancy, everyone understands what we're looking
for as far as a buffer is concerned.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-I just had a question. I see two lampposts on the west
side of the property a~jacent to Westwood Drive. Are these Town
lampposts, or yours?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-No. That property is owned by the Westwood
Homeowners Association, and most are their lampposts.
MR. RUEL-They're not ycurs?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-They're not mine.
MR. RIST-Westwood Driv is a private drive.
MR. RUEL-And maintaine by the Homeowners Association?
MR. RIST-Correct.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. RUEL-I see.
MR. STARK-Why don't you ask the applicant if he can do all this
by Friday, and then move on, and then come back next week.
That'll give Bill a chance to review it.
MR. PALING-Well, we have to do a public hea)-ing first. So, I
think, so far, can everything we've talked about be put on paper
and submitted by Friday?
MR. RIST--Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Well, at this point, why don't we
go into the public hearing, and see what else might come up
before we make any final decisions. All right. We'll open the
public hearing on this matter. Would anyone care to speak?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
HOWARD KRANTZ
MR. KRANTZ-Howard Krantz. I represent the Westwood Homeowners
Association, and the 48 homeowners that own properties adjacent
to this parcel. My clients have several concerns, and I would
like to preface my comments by saying that members of the Board
of Directors of Westwood have met with Mr. Ricciardelli before
tonight. He's been very accommodating in discussing his plans
with the Association, as well as trying to address their
concerns, and in general they are not opposed to the project.
They think it's a reasonable use of the project, and as long as
certain concerns are addressed, they're actually in favor of it.
The first concern they have, and that's already been addressed
tonight, is the design of the building, and we understand it's
going to bè quite compatible with the design of their homes, and
they're very pleased to hear that, and to see the elevation
drawings tonight. The second is the screening, and there on the
westerly and northerly sides of the project site, where the
grassy area is shown, we were hoping to have something definite,
as far as what type of screening material would be used, and the
spacing and so on. I understand no plan is available tonight,
and it's going to go before Beautification on that issue, or not?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. Even if the Board acts on this, either
tonight or next week, I would recommend that a condition of the
approval be that the Beautification Committee review a
landscaping plan and approve it.
MR. PALING-They can't do that before we meet next Tuesday, I
wouldn't think.
MR. MACEWAN-We've done that before. We've approved site plans,
contingent upon a Beautification Committee approval. We've done
that quite often.
MR. KRANTZ-And my clients have no desire to hold up the project
at all, and they're confident, given the cooperation of Mr.
Ricciardelli, that what will be approved by Queensbury
Beautification will be a reasonable screening along the northerly
and westerly boundaries of the parcel. We also asked Mr.
Ricciardelli, and I believe he said he's not opposed to it, to
the concept of, in those screened areas along the northerly and
westerly boundaries of the parcel, to have some reasonably
heightened berms, so that whatever screening is put on will
screen it a little bit further.
MR. BREWER-You want to berm the whole length of that?
MR. RUEL-How high a berm are you talking about?
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. KRANTZ-I'm talking something very reasonable. I was leaving
it up, maybe, Mr. Ricciardelli to make a recommendation, but the
berm would serve a two fold purpose. Number One, provide some
additional screening, given the height of the plantings would be
higher, and, second, if the two catch basins, for any reason,
should not function properly, should fail, to storm or what have
you, that there would not be any flooding onto the Homeowners
Association property.
MR. MACEWAN-Correct me if I'm wrong, Howard. Isn't some of the
landscaping along Westwood Road also done on berms?
MR. KRANTZ-The northerly side is. and something could be done
compatible to that. Mr. Ricciardelli is not opposed to this. WE
didn't make any demand that it be three feet high or two feet
high, but just some modest beym, perhaps that would be worked out
with Beautification.
I
MR. RUEL-Would the Beautification Committèe be the ones to make
that determination?
MR. MACEWAN-As far as erms go, that would be us.
MR. GORALSKI-I think that the best way to approach this is that
if the applicant can submit a landscaping plan to us by next
Tuesday, you folks have a chance to see it and approve it. I
would still recommend that it go to the Beautification Committee,
beyond that, but I think that it's important that, if possible.
because this bufferi g is a significant issue, probably the
biggest issue, in my opinion, regarding this project, the
Planning Board should ee it before you approve it
MR. RUEL-If we don't ßee a landscaping plan, and
over to the Beautification Committee, we don't know
going to do. and we are inte)-ested in having certain
I agree wholeheartedly.
just turn it
what they're
things done.
MR. PALING-Is that pos· ible to do that?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right.
MR. KRANTZ-With regard to parking, we suggested to Mr.
Ricciardelli the elimi ation, it's already been discussed, of the
four northerly parking spaces, 10, 11,12, and 13. Our concern
there was that all t is parking was required, and I think it's
more than they need. The snow would end up being plowed up onto
the northerly end of the property, which could damage whatever
screening would be put there.
MR. RUEL-Good point.
MR. KRANTZ-This way the spaces are 20 feet by 9 feet, as I
understand, and if you eliminated the four northerly, it ,would be
another 18 feet of area where the snow could actually be
deposited, without hurting the screening area.
MR. BREWER-I think we went one step further than that and said
eliminate more than th t, didn't we?
MR. PALING-Well, we're going to eliminate six spaces, but two in
the front and four on the north, and that would accomplish what
you're asking for.
MR. KRANTZ-Right.
MR. RUEL-Ten. eleven, twelve, thirteen, twenty-one, twenty-two.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. PALING-Twenty-two, yes.
1'1R. RUEL-Yes.
MR. KRANTZ-The next concern we had was lighting. There doesn't
appear to be any lighting planned for the northerly half of the
project site, and if there were, we would ask that it just be
shielded from the Westwood side. I don't see any lighting
proposed.
MR. RUEL-Just what's on the building, right?
MR. KRANTZ-Right.
. shown.
We have no concern with that.
The1-e's none
MR. PALING-But I think we're going to make, as part of the
resolution anyway, the lighting, we want to not run a danger of
glare to the Westwood occupants, or to anywhere else, either.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I have a condition all written for that.
MR. PALING-Yes. Okay.
MR. KRANTZ-We discussed this with Tony. We're confident it won't
be a problem. It's just that during the construction phase, no
construction debris go over the property line, it be contained on
site.
MR. PALING-Yes, be contained, right. I can understand that.
MR. RUEL-From an engineering standpoint, would the two catch
basins still be necessary, with the elimination of four parking
spaces?
MR. GORALSKI-What Rist-Frost's
doesn't have any information that
adequacy of these catch basins.
submit.
letter indicates is that he
he can use to determine the
That's what we need them to
MR. RUEL-That information you will provide?
MR. RIST-Yes, we will.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. PALING-Well, has there been any trouble with, the catch
basins aren't going to change?
MR. GORALSKI-They're not there.
MR. PALING-Okay. I'm sorry.
right. That's it?
I thought they were existing. All
MR. KRANTZ-Those were the items, yes.
MR. PALING-Okay.
insurmountable. I
work things out
hopefully, by next
I don't see anything there that's
think everything is going to be, that we can
in this regard, and we can do our part,
Tuesday.
LARRY CORBETT
MR. CORBETT-I'm Larry Corbett from Westwood. Your agenda tonight
calls for a building 40 by 68 feet long. The public hearing says
it's 40 by 60 feet. My simple question is, which is the correct
dimensions of the building?
MR. PALING-Good question.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. RIST-Larry, the correct dimensions are 40 by 68 feet.
MR. CORBETT-Your survey plans show 40 by 60 feet.
MR. BREWER-Sixty-eight.
MR. STARK-You've got a eight foot porch that you're eliminating.
That's the extra eight feet.
MR. KRANTZ-We assumed it was a typo.
PETER ACCARDI
MR. ACCARDI-My name is Peter Accardi, and I'm here representing
my sister-in-law, Carolyn Accardi, who owns the property to the
west of this property, the residence right across Westwood Drive,
and she has some concerns. The primary concern she has is with
the storm drain, request about the capacity of the storm drain.
When the storm sewer extended, I think back when Westwood
Development was done, the houses in that area, the house that Mr.
Ricciardelli bought a d the house that my sister-in-law owns,
were tied into that st rm drain, because they have a lot of water
in the cellar, and they actually ran a pipe from the cellar into
the storm drain, because of the high water table in that area,
and they've had occasions where the water has actually backed up
a little bit into the cellar from the storm, and they have done
everything they can to raise the furnace up as high as they can,
and they've put in a trench in the cellar to try and handle this
water, and the concer is that, if there's a lot of runoff from
the paved area in the new building, which is considerable square
footage, that it might cause more problems for them. Apparently,
that hasn't really bee addressed yet, and there was just concern
that if there was goi g to be a problem, if something could be
done to prevent a lot f water coming back into that cellar.
MR. RUEL-Is this somet
be addressed by Rist-Frost?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I would say, as part of their stormwater
management plan, that's something that Rist-Frost should look at.
MR. RUEL-Yes, but he has to be told this specifically.
MR. GORALSKI-I will tell him.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-Did you say t at the water's pumped out of the basement
into the storm sewer?
MR. ACCARDI-Well, it's not pumped, it's fed by gravity.
MR. RUEL-Into the stor sewer?
MR. ACCARDI-Yes. Th t was approved by the County when they
extended that, they extended the storm sewer, and I think the
plan shows the storm ewer right at the corner, the catch basin
right at the corner of Westwood and Glenwood.
MR. PALING-But you'll talk to Rist-Frost about this.
MR. ACCARDI-Okay. A couple of other things, one was exterior
lighting, which you've covered, and they were concerned about
screening of the parking lot, particularly of the parking lot.
The plan just shows grass.
MR. PALING-Well, we'll hold the public hearing, and I think I'm
saying this right, an see if the Board agrees, you'll have a
chance to look at the landscaping plan when it's brought to us a
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
week from tonight. Okay.
MR. RUEL-Yes, but did we discuss landscaping on the west side of
the property adjacent to the parking lot, as far as screening?
MR. BREWER-Yes. He's going to bring a landscaping plan, with the
suggestions of the audience and this Board.
MR. PALING-We haven't finished yet.
MR. RUEL-Good, I hope so.
MR. ACCARDI-Okay. One other question that she had was about
signage, what kind of signs would you have?
MR. PALING-That's not our responsibility, really.
MR. GORALSKI-Certainly you can consider signage, and the location
of signage, and whether or not that's appropriate. There are
specific regulations in the Sign Ordinance, particularly that it
has to be 15 feet from any property line and any freestanding
sign can't be more than 50 square feet, but certainly the
location of the sign is within the purview of this Board.
MR. SCHACHNER-Right. In fact, specifically, the first item under
your Planning Board review criteria says, the location,
arrangement, size, design and general site compatibility of
buildings, lighting ~nd signs. So that is within your
jurisdiction.
MR. RUEL-Who passes on signs, normally?
MR. GORALSKI-It's a permit, like a building permit.
MR. RUEL-Yes. It's issued by your office?
MR. GORALSKI-Yés. Either myself or Jim Martin review the permit
for compliance with the Ordinance.
MR. RUEL-And as long as they meet the requirements.
MR. GORALSKI-They get the permit.
MR. RUEL-And it varies from zone to zone?
MR. GORALSKI-No.
MR. PALING-But we can look at the location and the size of the
sign.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Certainly, as part of your site plan review,
you can look the location and the size.
MR. RUEL-And we have an opportunity to say yes or no or modify
placement of the sign?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. Obviously, they can't exceed the
requirements of the Sign Ordinance, but certainly you could say
that you think a smaller sign is appropriate, or it should be
moved back from the road, or it should be on the other side of
the lot. Those are all things you can address.
MR. RUEL-And when do we have an opportunity to see what the sign
looks like and where it be located?
MR. GORALSKI-Right now.
them.
If you want to see that, you could ask
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MR. RUEL-You have to ask for it.
MR. PALING-All right. We'll address that to the applicant when
this gentleman's finished.
MR. RUEL-Because normally we don't get that information. Okay.
MR. ACCARDI-That was it.
MR. PALING-All right, and we'll call on the applicant to address
those. There'll be other things I'm sure. Okay. Thank you. Is
there anyone else that would care to speak? All right. I'm
going to leave the public hearing open, and it will be resumed, I
would assume, next Tuesday. We'll find out before this is over,
but for now, I everyone that wants to has commented on this?
Okay, but you'll have another chance next Tuesday. Would you
want to comment, now, on, you said you wanted to comment on one
of the things we said, and we want to hear what you have to say
about the signage, too.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-The question of the water in the basements, I
was just going to address the existing structure. The existing
structure has a pump, and what is called a B-drive system that
handles whatever water problem did exist there. The basement in
the existing structure is not flooded. It's basically dry, but
that's always an option to the homeowner.
MR. PALING-Okay. Well, we'll look for the Rist-Frost comments,
and that, any opportunity there would be to help the situation
like that, and how about the sign? Are you going to have a sign?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Yes. I'd like to have a sign. I hadn't really
given much thought, at this point in time, (lost word) had to
address the sign. I thought that the only process was that we
get a permit for a sign that conformed with the Ordinances?
MR. MACEWAN-May I offer a suggestion? When you do your
landscaping plan, you put a small detail in there of what your
proposed sign is going to be like, size wise. From where you
have it now, you're going to have a planter area around it, but
it's in front of those two parking spots we plan on eliminating,
so I'm assuming you'll want to move it back closer to the
building.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Yes.
should be moved back.
My initial reaction would be that it
MR. MACEWAN-You can just show us something on that landscaping
plan that might give us an idea of what that sign is going to be
like, and where it's g ing to be.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Sure.
MR. RUEL-I have a question for the applicant. The area lighting,
what are the hours of operation that these lights will be on?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Well, I guess I haven't given that much thought,
either. I mean, my existing building's right across the street,
if you're familiar with it.
MR. RUEL-It's predicated on the use of the parking lot, or the us
of the building, who's around, your hours of operation?
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Yes. The hours of our operation are normal
office hours, except during what's our so called tax season,
where some people may be in there later, eight, ten o'clock or
so, but, generally, it's normal working hours, eight to five.
The lighting, I presume, with our existing building, the lighting
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
is on a timer, and we set them to come on and off when we want
to, quite frankly. The existing building that I'm in right now,
the lighting is on during all hours of darkness.
MR. RUEL-Well, I was concerned that, you know, that they weren't
going to be on until ten, eleven o'clock at night, or something
like that.
MR. PALING-Yes, but they could be.
factor here.
I'm not sure that that's a
MR. RUEL-Well, I just wanted to know.
MR. MACEWAN-Most places, Roger, have like a dusk to dawn kind of
scenario with their parking lot lighting.
MR. GORALSKI-I think the hours that the lights are on are
importaDt, but I think even more important is the type of light
fixtures that you're going to be using.
MR. PALING-And the design of the system.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. Is it going to be a simple residential style
incandescent, wall mounted thing, or is it going to be a high
pressure sodium wall pack? I think that's more of an issue as to
whether or not that's going to be washing onto the residential
properties.
MR. RUEL-They'll probably use halogen, which is just white light,
similar to incandescent.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, right. I guess that's, I don't know.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-I guess, I'm not prepared to answer that right
now, but obviously, the concern has been expressed. It's a valid
concern, and we'll address it, so that it doesn't create a
nuisance. This is not going to be a two story building. The
lighting doesn't have to be on the peaks of the roof, so that it
doesn't, isn't visible from long distances.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Well, the reason that we're so interested is
because of its proximity to a residential area.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Exactly. Right.
MR. RUEL-If it was on Quaker Road~ I don't think I'd even bother.
, '
'MR. PALING-o'kay. Any,dther çomments? L¿t me attempt to just
randomly sUmMarize what we're asking you to do, and we need your
permission. beforé the meeting's over, to ~abl¿ this, I think is
l>Jhat we'll do, wi th the public hear ing left open. So far the
concerns~h~t have,þeen expressed are the lighting, not only the
type of lÍghti ng but the location and its effect' on the
surrounding area in all directions. We've talked about parking
spaces, but I think that's been resolved with the proposal to
eliminate four on the north side of the lot and the two in front,
and I'm satisfied, as long as Staff is satisfied, with the
circulation, the setbacks, and the drive by the building.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, that has to be changed to 20 feet wide.
MR. PALING-To the requirement Qf 20 feet.
MR. GORALSKI-And I would recommend, just simply so you don't have
to pave as much, to now cut that rear parking lot down from a 30
foot drive aisle, to 24, just less paving to do.
MR. PALING-Thirty to twenty-four. Okay, and that you will have a
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
landscaping plan that we can review, we can hopefully put up on
the Board and let everybody have a look at, and it will cover the
berm as well as the actual plantings on, am I saying this right,
three sides?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. I think
residential properties. So
screening on all three sides.
it's surrounded on three
I would recommend some
sides by
type of
MR. PALING-Okay. All right, and then the building design, I had
a note on, but I think everything is fine. You're going to blend
with the neighborhood, and I don't think there's any further
comment there. The screening will come along with the
landscaping plan, and this may not have been, but will go to the
Beautification Committee, and, pending their approval for our
final approval. If they do something slight, can just modify it,
and then there is the very important coordination with Rist-
Frost, regarding storwater management and catch basin overflow,
possible catch basin verflow. They've also asked, which is one
of our requirements, that the construction debris be contained,
and that you will have a pretty good idea of the size and
location of the sign that you're going to have. Have I missed
anything? Now, I thi k, at this point, we should request the
applicant's permission to table. Am I correct, Mark?
MR. SCHACHNER-It's c immaterial, Bob. The public
hearing's not been clo So you couldn't make a decision
tonight on this application, even if you wanted to, so,
basically, this matt l' is continued until resumption of the
public hearing, and if you want to table it, you can. If you
want somebody's conse t, you can ask for it, but you certainly
don't need to.
MR. PALING-All right. Can we just
until, and we'll meet on this again,
next Tuesday night.
say it's extended, then,
it'll be on the agenda for
MR. SCHACHNER-That's fine.
MR. GORALSKI-If that's your wishes, yes.
MR. PALING-All right. Any other questions from anyone? Okay.
Thank you.
MR. RICCIARDELLI-Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 54-95 TYPE: UNLISTED GARY HIGLEY OWNER:
EVERGREEN BANK ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: CORNER QUAKER & GLENWOOD
AVENUE (OLD NORTHERN H MESISAWHORSE COMPLEX) PROPOSAL IS RE-USE
OF COMMERCIALIOFFICE S ACE OF EXISTING STRUCTURES. ALL LAND USES
IN THE HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONE ARE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW.
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 10/9/95 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 10/11/95
TAX MAP NO. 105-1-38 LOT SIZE: 2.88 ACRES SECTION: 179-23
GARY HIGLEY, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 54-95, Gary Higley, I~eeting Date:
October 17, 1995 "The applicant is proposing to reuse the former
Sawhorse/Northern Homes building as a retail and office complex.
The proposal calls for the construction of no new buildings and,
in fact, the storage barn and the garage on the northwest corner
will be removed. T e removal of the garage will increase the
visibility at the corner by increasing the setback of the
building from the Quaker Rd. - No new lighting is proposed so
there should be little impact on the adjacent residential
property. - The proposal calls for planters to define the access
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
point on Glenwood Ave. Fred Austin, Warren County DPW
Superintendent, has reviewed the access to Quaker Road and has
given it conceptual approval. He indicated that they have not
been able to issue a permit yet, but would recommend that a
Planning Board approval include a condition that any requirements
of the Warren County DPW be met. Because there is a traffic
signal at the intersection of Glenwood and Quaker there should be
sufficient gaps in traffic flow to facilitate safe turning
movements in and out of the site. It is recommended that the
exit onto Quaker Road be right turn out only. - The applicant is
proposing an adequate number of parking spaces for the proposed
use. I would suggest that some type of planting be provided
between the new parking lot to the north of the building and
Quaker Road to screen this area from the road. This can be
accomplished by relocating existing plant material, as noted, or
by providing new plant material. - The only new nonpermeable
area on the site is the parking area to the north. Fred Austin
also indicated that he does not have a problem with this draining
into the existing ditch but, once again, he has not issued a
permit and recommends the same condition. The proposed
landscaping plan should have an overall positive impact on the
character of the site ðnd the neighborhood. It should be noted
that if this were new construction a 50' buffer zone would be
required adjacent to the SFR-1A zone. I would recommend that no
vegetation be removed in this area and that if possible
vegetation be added along the property line. This may be
difficult due to the steep slope along the property line."
MR. GORALSKI-Warren County Planning Board returned with no
action. They didn't have a majority for the vote, and
Beautification Committee, Re-use of commercial office space and
structures - remove garage on Glenwood and pole barn at rear of
lot. Install small parking lot on front of building (Quaker
Rd.). Landscape extensively on corner of Quaker Rd. & Glenwood.
Two raised landscape beds at entrance on Glenwood. Mixes shrubs
wlperennials and complemented with annuals. Motion made to
accept as submitted by P. Carpenter, seconded by J. Wetherbee."
MR. PALING-Okay.
anyone?
Any questions by the Board right now, of
MR. HIGLEY-Gary Higley.
DAVID LINEHAN
MR. LINEHAN-I'm David Linehan, from Jim Girard Landscaping.
MR. PALING-Do you have any comments? How about the Warren County
D.P.W.? Is that any problem?
MR. HIGLEY-None whatsoever. I've been in contact with Fred, on
and off, in the last week. He just received this information the
night before the Warren County Planning Board. So, he had no
comment for the Warren County Planning Board, and he reviewed it
this week and talked to John.
MR. PALING-Okay. Now, right turn only onto Quaker Road.
MR. GORALSKI-That's what they're proposing.
MR. PALING-That's what this look~ like anyway.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. That's what they're proposing.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI··I think that's a significant mitigation measure in
minimizing traffic impacts.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
MR. PALING-Yes.
10/17/95
MR. GORALSKI-You don't want someone coming out and trying to make
a left hand turn that close to the intersection.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Will you be able to exit onto Glenwood, go right,
just drive right throu h?
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay, and you're taking down all those barns, or
two of them.
MR. HIGLEY-Everybody's familiar with the property. The two car
garage.
MR. GORALSKI-Garage, storage area, whatever you want to call it.
MR. HIGLEY-Virtually sticks out of the building toward the light,
and it's very much a r al eye sore to the property, and it has no
value to me. My whole idea is to enhance the property. I want
to make it very much, I use the Manchester, Vermont type of view
or commons type of view. It's a beautiful structure in there,
and we want to enhance it. So, by removing that garage and
making it more of a linear frontage on that, tying in the same
siding that was already there existing. It'll be much more eye
appealing than what's there, and the biggest thing is, was when
John and I walked the roperty, the first comment John made was,
boy, I wish ~o.Je coul, get rid of this garage because of the
cor ner .
MRS. LABOMBARD-And yo 're putting all that landscaping in its
place.
MR. HIGLEY-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It's be utiful.
MR. RUEL-Since the recommendation for right turn only, exit on
Quaker Road, is there any possibility of connecting the large
parking lot, and a smaller one, so that people in the large lot
could exit out onto Gl nwood Avenue?
MR. HIGLEY-It is connected.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes.
right through here.
It is.
You can just drive right through,
MR. RUEL-It doesn't shew it. Is that open for vehicles?
MR. HIGLEY-The whole of the property, as was stated in
front of Beautificati n, normally a complex, we're looking at
more of a commons type of thing. This is going to be our store
with professional offi es on the other end which are existing
there now. Normally, it has all the parking out in the front.
We're looking to have the building out in front, and have the
parking and the traffic flow around the back of the building.
MR. RUEL-Yes. It does look better.
MR. HIGLEY-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I agree.
MR. BREWER-It's been
the building up front
uggested to many buildings on Quaker Road,
nd the parking out back, so they don't.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. RUEL-Yes, just the way Wal-Mart lS.
MR. PALING-Okay. Any comments? Do you have any other comments?
MR. BREWER-Are there professional offices in use, or do you have
tenants for these offices?
MR. HIGLEY-The only occupant right now is Susan Balfour, which is
a Realtor. She will stay in that building. I do not have any
signed businesses at this time.
MR. BREWER-The only comment that I might make, is with the
proposed parking area, is maybe put one handicapped parking
spaces there. For whatever reason, if that's an entrance to the
professional offices.
MR. HIGLEY-There's a couple right adjacent to the building.
MR. BREWER-In the back. I see them up front, but I was talking
about proposed toward Quaker Road.
MR. GORALSKI-I see.
MRS. LABOMBARD-There are two over here, Tim.
and there's two here.
There's two here
MR. GORALSKI-No. He's just saying move one, right? Move one.
MR. BREWER-Yes. Just move it. In other words, if
here on the back, what I would call the back, is
south. It's ea~ier to show you. Put one here.
you had one
I guess the
MR. PALING-Well, there's two on the east, and there's two on the
southwest, and Tim is proposing to move one around to the north
side.
MR. BREWER-Just eliminate one in the back here, and put it over
here.
MR. PALING-Is that okay?
MR. HIGLEY-That's fine.
MR. BREWER-Other than that, I commend your efforts.
MR. PALING-All right. Then I think at this point, we should open
the public hearing on this matter. Is there anyone here that
would care to talk about this matter?
PUBLIC HEARING,OPFNEQ
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-We need a Short Form.
MR. PALING-Okay.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 54-95, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
adoption, seconded by Catherine LaBombard:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before
GARY HIGLEY, and
the
Planning
Board
an
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WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
appl icant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for teState of New Yo,- k, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be n cessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 17th day of October, 1995, by the following
vot,e:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr.Obermayer
MR. PALING-Okay. Then I think we can go right to a motion, but
we've got to consider the D.P.W.
MR. BREWER-We can just make it contingent.
MR. PALING-Contingent, okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 54-95 GARY HIGLEY, Introduced by
Timothy Brewer who mcved fo,- its adoption, seconded by R~oger
Ruel:
With two conditions: COT approval from Warren County be obtained
for the curb cut, ard the rearrangement of the handicapped
parking place to the ncrth proposed parking lot.
Duly adopted this 17t~ day of October, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel,
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Obermayer
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RESOLUTIONS:
RESOLUTION
APPROVALS.
REGARDING:
EXTENSION
OF EXPIRED
SUBDIVISION
MR. PALING-Okay. This is a matter that we have discussed before,
and I think I know what's going to be, but what I would suggest
is that we could have discussion, but then I'd like to hear a
motion and a second, and then I'd like to have an additional
discussion about it before we actually take a vote. So is there
any discussion prior to?
MR. STARK-How can yoU grant an extension of something that
doesn't exist?
MR. BREWER-You can't. Agreed.
MR. MACEWAN-It's simple.
MR. PALING-I believe, and, Mark, we need you aboard on this one,
because èverybody's gone both ways on this.
MR. BREWER-No. You're saying that again, and we haven't.
MR. PALING-Okay. The only thing I'm trying to say here is that
if there is a way that we can eliminate a little bit of the
bureaucracy, by considering the impact and the reasons that lead
up to the missing the date. Lets say it's not the fault of the
applicant that the date was missed. That, to me, would be an
extenuating circumstance, and if you can consider that, and the
impact, and the Board votes on it, then I don't see why we can't
have a little leeway in that regard. Mark indicates that it is
done that way by other Boards, and by some Boards no way.
They're going to just go right down the line and cut it off and
that's it.
MR. STARK-I don't want to depend on John to notify me if my
approval is running outr
MR. PALING-Correct.
MR. STARK-I'll worry about my approval myself. I don't want to
depend on him or Martin.
MR. PALING-No. I don't disagree with that.
MR. STARK-Dave Kenny, he was aware of what's going on. He came
in a month and a half ahead of time. That's the applicant's
responsibility, and tough beans if it runs out.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And also, because if we don't make a bottom line
cutoff, we're going to end up treating some applicants different
from others, and we're not going to be consistent, and that's
where we could get into some trouble.
MR. RUEL-Bob, could you give me an
circumstances, as you mentioned a moment
that possibly would allow?
idea
ago?
of an extenuating
The type of thing
MR. PALING-All right. I'll give Iou an example, an extenuating
circumstance, an impact that that has. Lets say that there's a
subdivision or whatever, there's no objection by the public to
anything that's gone on, and the submittal was made properly and
the papers were lost in our office here, and the gate were
missed, and the extension of this has no impact on anybody or
anything, and I think under those conditions we should grant the
extension.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. RUEL-It's very remote, but I agree.
MR. PALING-Just leavi g the Boa)-d, to G~orge 's poin.t, I am
totally in agreement ith George, and we had one o'f th.ese here
with the Great Escape. They blew it. They missed their date
through their own fault. I have no sympathy with them
whatsoever. I'm talking about the other end of the case, where
you'd say, hey, there is no impact by this, and it's extenuating.
MR. STARK-If there's no impact,
public, let them resubmit, and
that's all.
and there's no outcry from the
it would be approved again.
MR. PALING-Through the whole process? Okay.
MR. RUEL-Yes. You could do that.
extenuating circumstance.
That would take care of the
MR. PALING-No, it wouldn't. He's
process, is what George is saying.
no, we do not grant the extension.
through the process.
got to go back through the
In other words, he's saying,
Therefore, you must go back
MR. MACEWAN-If an applicant comes back in with an expired, lets
say a subdivision, expired subdivision, and he's missed it,
missed the deadline, e wants to come back through, and he goes
through, and if he co es back to us, in front of us again, and
says, look, the project is not changi ng from any of the
information I previously had given you before, here it is, in
it's entirety, I'm sure that the Board would see to it that we
could step up the process, and may jump right into a preliminary
from a sketch, and quickly move it into a two step process and
get it done, but I don't think this Board should be put under the
obligation to selective police what subdivisions we let go
through and what ones e don't.
MR. RUEL-I think Bob saying we would be consistent, and the
consistency would be t at no one would be allowed an extension if
it's their fault, but if it was an internal goof somewhere, that
would be an extenuati g circumstance that would allow it. The
consistency would be t ere. If anyone complained about it, all
we'd have to say is that, look, you knew the date. Nobody goofed
internally, and you missed it.
MR. PALING-Yes, and, t erefore, we can't do anything about it.
MR. MACEWAN-The point we're overlooking here is that we've been
advised in the past that it's an expired subdivision or it's an
expired site plan, or subdivision. There's nothing there to give
an extension to. It no longer exists.
MR. PALING-What you say is right, Craig, but I think it is also
correct to say, and maybe not by this Board, but it has been done
even in the face of those circumstances to grant the extension.
MR. BREWER-But, Bob, don't you think, in all fairness, that if we
said no to a particular applicant, then it should be no, and then
another applicant comes in, no matter what the circumstances are,
that applicant that we said no to has the same rights that the
applicant we say yes to and, therefore, I think if you say it's
expired, it's expired, you have to, I can't.
MR. PALING-Well, Tim, it has to be in the Judgement of the Board.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but in who's eyes, Bob?
MR. PALING-But wait a minute, in the eyes of the Board, the
impact and the ext)-aneous circumstance is enough to say, yes, to
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
Mr. A and no to Mr. B.
MR. BREWER-But if you say no to anybody, than there's an impact
to them. I don't understand where you're coming from.
MR. STARK-YQu're the only one, I think, that is extending this.
We have never said, I just asked Craig to refresh my memory. I
don't recall ever saying no, and he doesn't, to an applicant to
come in for an extension if it was still enforced. If it's run
out, it's run out. Tough beans.
MR. MACEWAN-Tim, before you run through a motion on this, I'd
like to hear a comment from John and Mark again on this, one more
time, Reader's Digest version.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Me, too.
MR. SCHACHNER-All right. We'll try Reader's Digest version.
Bob's recitation of a portion of what I said several months ago
is factually correct, meaning these things do happen in other
municipalities, and there are places where, after the fact,
expired extensions are granted, but is it proper, is it legal?
It's not challenged is what usually happens. In the cases I'm
familiar with, or the situations I'm familiar with, it's been an
example like where Bob said, nobody has any problem with it. So
nobody objects to it. So nobody challenges it. So it happens.
You can do a lot of things that are not necessarily technically
complying with the law, that if nobody challenges or is offended
or upset will be fine, but I think this is a big philosophical
debate that probably is not worth the time and effort we're all
spending on it. I think that you've received advice from me,
many, many months ago, in the context of the first example Bob
mentioned, about a deadline being a deadline, and once it's
expired, somethirig doesn't exist, a phrase I think 1 started,
that some of you have picked up on. You've received advice from
Paul Dusek, much more recently, that essentially says the same
thing. I think Bob came up with a superb hypothetical example,
probably the most onerous example, where the applicant would be
truly innodent, but I think in that case, perhaps the Board, if
that situation were ever to occur, perhaps the Board would, like
in many other instances, waive, bend, or fLex its own rule, and
say, okay, in this case, when that horrible situation occurred
that was truly nobody's fault but ours, meaning the Town, we'll
allow an exception to the rule. I mean, again, remember, these
are rules and regulations of the Planning Board and of no one
else. This is not a Town Board matter. No one else has to
approve or adopt these. So to that extent, it's like something
else. If you want to waive something that you come up with, you
can do it in a particular case, but I think the general rule that
I hear the majority of the Board adopting makes all kinds of
sense, is the correct legal result, and doesn't need to be done
by a resolution or by amending the rules and regulations or
anything else, because I think it's the state of the situation as
we sit here.
MR. BREWER-Can I ask one question?
fault if somebody else's application
our fault?
How can, ever, it be our
expires? How can that be
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, no.
thought, come up with a
His example was that the
their request for renewal.
When you say~, I mean, Bob, did, I
very good example, as a hypothetical.
person or the applicant timely filed
MR. BREWER-Okay. All right.
MR. SCHACHNER-And then, literally, it got lost or something. I
mean, we're all human. So I thought his example was a superb
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example, because in his example, the applicant is totally
innocent. I mean the applicant timely filed, am I right, in
Bob's example, the applicant did everything an applicant should
do and what I'm suggesting is that in a situation like that,
perhaps the Board will end up saying, look, in that situation,
we're going to make an exception to our rule, but I'm also going
to tell you that if it's a contentious issue where there are
opponents to a particular extension, I'm not too comfortable
going to court defending our position because, as a matter of
law, as I said many months ago and as Paul Dusek said more
recently, and as Craig and others have reiterated, if something's
over, it doesn't exist anymore. George said the same thing.
MR. PALING-And I agree with what you're saying now, that if there
is any impact, even if it is the fault of, lets say the Planning
Off ice.
MR. SCHACHNER-You may have to go back to the application.
MR. PALING-We then have to turn them down.
MR. SCHACHNER-The other thing to keep in mind is, if there is
somebody that needs so ething, this type of relief, they don't
have to be in a multiple month, multiple meeting scenario. You
have the ability to wive a second public hearing, and to move
things through the process.
MR. PALING-I think we'd like to ask for John's comments.
MR. GORALSKI-He stole all my thunder, but in an effort to not let
the attorney have the last word, when somebody comes in and asks
for an extension after it's expired, it takes them a month to go
through that process. It's going to take them a month if they
come back and just sub it all their same information again, and
you start allover again.
MR. MACEWAN-And the ot~ r side of the spectrum,
comes in for a subdivision to be put on the
given some sort of rec ipt as to what day, or
application was taken?
MR. GORALSKI-It's stamR
if an applicant
agenda, are they
whatever they're
on the file copy.
MR. MACEWAN-Do they ha e something they walk out of the building
with? So they have no roof of, I was here on the 15th, or I was
here on the 9th.
MR. GORALSKI-The
. ,
lssue
MR. MACEWAN-Okay.
never come up.
MR. GORALSKI-In the cas of a subdivision, as I think Mark just
said, right in the Subdivision Regulations it says you're able to
grant waivers. So you can waive sketch plan, waive preliminary
and go to final, or say.
MR. SCHACHNER-The botto line is you can do it in one month, at
one meeting, if you feel it's appropriate to do that.
MR. PALING-Okay.
everybody, less
motion.
I
than
hink I'll
Reader's
have one
Digest, and
more comment
we'll call
from
for a
MR. MACEWAN-It's
MR. STARK-Lets go to a otion.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I
horse. We've beat it too many times.
same way they do.
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
MR. RUEL-Ditto.
MR. BREWER-Just say no.
MR. PALING-All right. Then lets have a motion.
MR. MACEWAN-Why? We don't need anything on this.
business as usual.
It's just
MR. RUEL-You don't need a motion. That's the way it is now.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. We're sitting here wondeTing what the motion
would þe for. The gist of what we're saying is that this is the
state of the situation now, and you don't need to do anything to
change it. You don't have anything anywhere, in any of your
rules, regulations, laws, or anything else that says that you
should, would, could or have granted after the fact, expiration
app,-ova Is.
MR. PALING-Okay then. So the subject is dead and we'll have a
fight anothe,- day.
MR. STARK-All the applications that came in tonight, I didn't see
one, two foot topography map. They're supposed to have a
topography map. Granted, they didn't need one, really, but
nobQdy includes these anymore? Is the site plan package
incomplete then?
MR. GORALSKI-We did all site plan reviews tonight. We didn't do
any subdivisions. I can tell you that it says on the
application, one of the parts of the check list is two foot
contour intervals. Typically, if we don't think it's necessary,
for whatever reason, we don't ask for it if it's not on there.
subdivision it's required. It's part of the Regulations. You
would have to waive that. Site Plan, it's just part of the
application checklist. It's not actually in the Regulation. I
can't think of any specific site plan tonight that would have
required it, except that in Rist-Frost's letter regarding the
Ricciardelli application, he asked for at least elevations to
determine that it was out of the flood plain.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Also, I have a comment about John Matthews getting
here late, and the rest of the Board didn't hear his comment.
He's concerned about Ship Shape, because he said during the high
volume Christmas rush, mailing packages, they're parking on,
their customers are parking over across the street in his office
buildings. John Matthews came late. He kept thinking the Board
meeting started at 7:30 be6ause the other ZBA starts then. I
think the whole thing is we did bring up the issue of parking, to
make sure that they designated their parking. So I just wanted
to clue you in on that.
MR. 8REWER-I think we kind of told them that they should have
some kind of a parking plan, and they would submit that.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. MACEWAN-I know that he's, over there on that parcel, they've
even run into trouble from all the traffic from the Racquet Club
during its busy season.
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. A couple, or three quick items. John clarified
the building that we saw on Lake George that was going up next to
the one. John, do you want to tell them what you told me.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
That
building meets all
the setback
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
requirements. It's a brand new building. So
expansion of a nonconforming structure. It Just got
permit. It doesn't require a site plan review.
it's not an
a building
MR. BREWER-I was going to say, up on the Corinth Road, next to
Northern Distributing, did they turn that into an office?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, they did.
MR. BREWER-Don't they need site plan?
MR. GORALSKI-Mr. MacEwan noticed that.
MR. BREWER-I noticed it a long time ago when they were doing it.
MR. GORALSKI-What happened was the owner of Northern Distributing
apparently comes up here infrequently, a month here, a month
there. He bought that house, renovated it. It currently has the
facilities required to define it as a Single Family Dwelling.
However, basically what it's used for is his office when he's
here. We asked for, we have asked for a letter from them stating
that that is a Single Family residence. I don't know if we've
received that or not.
MR. BREWER-But, in all reality, we know it's his office.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. It's a technical question as to whether or
not the fact that he comes up here and uses it and doesn't sleep
there. The bottom line is, there are more important issues we've
been pursuing then that, to be perfectly honest, and I'll go on
the record as saying that. I would say that if we wanted to push
it, yes, we could force him to come in for a site plan review.
MR. BREWER-Just let it be noted, that's all.
MR. GORALSKI-And they have been notified, in writing.
MR. PALING-Okay. I've ot three very quick items. Dr. Orban, on
Dixon Road that we approved his renovation of that office
building has invited us to an open house on the 25th, from six to
nine p.m. If anyone wants, they should let him know by the 18th
if you're going to come, and there's another one by the Builder's
Association of Northern New York. They have a seminar on low
cost housing, if anyon wants. Now, I have something I'd Just
like to bring up, which I think something ought to be done about,
and I Just want to bring it up here to see if you want to do
anything, or if I sh~ld refer it to the Town Board or these
meetings we go to in-be_ween. I think that the wooden curbs, or
the asphalt curbs tha we have in parking lots are terrible.
They wear out too quick. They look like hell after a while, and
we should try to go to either concrete or granite, rather than
wood or asphalt.
MR. MACEWAN-The next ti e they come in for a modification, that's
going to be Oll::. recommen ation. I know exactly who you're talking
about, and I agree with you 110 percent.
MR. PALING-Okay. the new Red Lobster that's going in.
They've got wooden cur! ing in there to outline the driveways and
the entrances and the ;·~xits, and they're going to be hit, and
they're going to disin egrate quickly, relative to that, and I
think we should start alking either concrete or granite when it
comes to curbing. Now the other thing is this, and I found out
today that there are s me applicants that come in here and say,
to hell with your layo t of parking recommendation. It's not
good enough, and what r suIts from the people who go by it is the
Red Lobster layout an, the Video store layout, which is too
tight, and all kinds of complaints come from it, and I think it's
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 10/17/95
about time that we got at least a change in the width of the
driving aisle.
MR. RUEL-I agree.
MR. PALING-And you try to go, now they're calling the Red Lobster
and that whole thing, they're calling it a maze now, and that's
what it is. It's got both the bad curbs and the drive aisles are
too narrow. Now, maybe the parking space can stay the same
narrowness, but if you've got a wider aisle, you've got a better
shot at bringing your car or truck in vertically.
MR. MACEWAN-Whereabouts are you talking about, though? Are you
talking about between the wooden separators? That had nothing to
do with the Red Lobster site plan. That had to do with, when
they came back in and asked for a modification, at the time they
were going to be doing the Olive Garden, we were after them to
de~ine the parking drive aisles and also the parking areas, and
we asked them to put up some separations in there, and then he
came back with the boulders, and he came back in with the six by
six timbers.
MR. BREWER-We asked him to define the islands where he had the
dirt, because all he did was put piles of dirt in there.
MR. MACEWAN-Right.
MR. BREWER-We told him to put timbers around them. He put stones
around them. We didn't tell him to design that entrance to Red
Lobster. They came in on their own with that.
MR. MACEWAN-I didn't say that.
MR. PALING-I'm using Red Lobster and Blockbuster only as an
example. I intend this as a generic statement.
MR. MAC~WAN-The thing you need to understand is that the Red
Lobster Restaurant was a separate site plan from the modification
to the Queensbury Plaza.
MR. RUEL-! think what Bob is trying to say is that parking in
some areas is totally inadequate, in front of Staples and Rex.
These places are almost impossible to get in and out and make the
turns. Forget about the Red Lobster. That whole parking area is
terrible.
MR. BREWER-We can't change the Ordinance.
MR. SCHACHNER-You have minimums in the Ordinance.
.
MR. GORALSKI-That's a minimum of 20 feet. You can require 24.
MR. RUEL-Why can't we change the Ordinance? If it's inadequate,
why can't we change it?
MR. BREWER-Because we don't have the authority to change it.
MR. PALING-But if we do feel similarly on this, could we not
request the Town Board to review it?
MR. RUEL-Absolutely. It should be done.
MR. BREWER-Why don't you make a draft letter and bring it to us
ne:oe:t week?
MR. PALING-All right. I'll bring in a draft letter to the Town
Board requesting a review of both of these items. John made a
point today that Wal-Mart and K-Mart says, the hell with your
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Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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regulations. I'm going to do it my way, and they have nice, and
they widen them, and they have very accessible, usable parking
spaces.
MR. BREWER-Right, but what you also have to consider, Bob, when
you're talking Wal-Mart and K-Mart, they're putting up 160,000
square foot buildings, where a guy that has a plaza that's
already established, you make him cut five feet out of his aisle,
then he loses half a parking space here, and half a space there,
then he doesn't have enough parking for the plaza.
MR. PALING-But maybe we could, that's got to be addressed, too.
I think we're in the ~orst condition now, the way that these
things are being laid out.
MR. RUEL --Bob,
conside)-ed by
lighting. If
should be done
also another thing that should
the Town Board or someone is this
it doesn't exist, it should exist,
about it, exterior area lighting.
be seriously
Ordinance on
and something
MR. GORALSKI-We don't h ve an Ordinance on lighting.
MR. RUEL-I say you should have one.
MR. GORALSKI-The site plan review standards give you the
authority to address Ii. hting as part of the site plan review.
MR. RUEL-Right, and t e same with signs, and the same with
everything else.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. RUEL-But it would implify matters if there was an Ordinance
that could be followed.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, that's very difficult to do.
MR. RUEL-It e~dsts in ther communities. I don't know why we
can't have it.
MR. GORALSKI-I know it in other communities. First of
all, it's difficult to ,nforce. Second of all, it becomes very,
very subjective as to were you're taking your measurements from,
what exactly is the int_nsity of lighting.
On motion meeti ng was al jour ned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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