1995-11-21
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEEIING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER, 21, 1995 ¡Ii
INDEX
site Plan No. 27-95
Tax Map No. 104-1-18
Subdivision No. 15-1995
PRELIMINARY STAGE
site Plan No. 63-95
Tax Map No. 8-2-6
Site Plan No. 70-95
Tax Map No. 124-2-7.2
Site Plan No. 65-95
Tax Map No. 14-1-7.2
Site Plan No. 66-95
Tax Map No. 61-1-34
subdivision No. 21-1989
MODIFICATION
site Plan No. 67-95
Tax Map No. 48-3-34.1
site Plan No. 61-95
DISCUSSION ITEM
G. Joseph Monsour
Malcolm Batchelder
Tax Map No. 27-3-1.1
Ronald Benjamin
RD 2 Buildings & Parking Ltd.
John & Deborah Skinner
John Matthews
Cross Roads Park
Tax Map No. 46-2-9.4, 9.5
Richard P. Schermerhorn, Jr.
John Brock
Tax Map No. 13-2-19, 21,37
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2.
5.
6.
13.
16.
19.
22.
29.
35.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planni 1"Ig Board Meet'i ng 11/21/95)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 21, 1995
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
GEORGE STARK
CRAIG MACEWAN
TIMOTHY BREWER
ROGER RUEL
JAMES OBERMAYER
CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER-JOHN GORALSKI
PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. PALING-In case anyone has come about the Mooring Post
hearing, tonight there will be a SEQRA discussion by the Planning
Board which will involve only the Planning Board and Staff.
There will be no comment allowed by the applicant, the
applicant's representative, or anyone from the general public or
anyone else for that matter. The sequence of events will be that
we'll have a SEQRA discussion here on the Mooring Post tonight
between Staff and Board. We will pass our comments on to the
Zoning Board of Appeals, in advisory capacity, because they have
been designated lead agent. They will conduct the SEQRA on
November 29th, at which time there will be a public hearing. If
and when the variances are granted, or the ZBA approval is
granted, then that same application has got to come before the
Planning Board for a site plan review. There will also be a
public hearing held in conjunction with that, but the SEQRA
public hearing will held by the Zoning Board of Appeals on
November 29th. We have most of the information on the Mooring
Post, except the Board received tonight copies of letters
covering this, going back, I guess, to Day One, we're going to
look at these during the week. There's too many for us to read
tonight. We're going to look at them during the week, and we're
going to have very brief comment at our meeting a week from
tonight. So there'll be no input of any kind from other than
staff and the Planning Board tonight. I may have to repeat that
speech later on this evening. So we'll proceed with the rest of
the meeting now.
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
September 19, 1995: NONE
September 21, 1995: NONE
September 26, 1995: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF MEETINGS DATED SEPTEMBER 19TH,
21ST. AND 26TH, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meetl ngj', 1'1/21/95)" "..1
ABSTAINED: Mr. MacEwan
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 27-95 TYPE: UNLISTED G. JOSEPH MONSOUR OWNER:
SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: PC-1A LOCATION: NEXT to JÖ~O'S REST., 676
UPPER GLEN ST. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONDUCT, SALE OF FLOWERS,
PRODUCE AND CHRISTMAS TREES FROM A PORTABLE STAND ON HIS PROPgRTY
ALONG UPPER GLEN STREET. SECTION 179-22 Ö(l) STATES THAT ALL
LAND USES IN PLAZA COMMERCIAL ZONING WILL BE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN
REVIEW. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 6/14/95 TAX MAP NO. 104-1-18 LOT
SIZE: .86 ACRES SECTION: 179~22
MICHAEL Ó'CONNOR, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESE~T
MR. PALING-Okay. John, do you have any comments on this?
MR. GORALSKI-The application was tabled because the question of
the residentially zoned parcel that juts out into the
commercially zoned parcel arose. The Town Board has since then
re-zoned that parcel, so that the entire parcel is zoned Highway
Commercial, I believe it's Highway Commerçial, or Plaza
Commercial. I'm sorry, Plaza Comm'ercial, and this is now an
allowable use. So you can just finish µP your site plan review.
MR. PALING-Okay. Is
Okay. Warren County
John?
someone from the applicant here
Planning approved this previously I
please?
think,
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Warren County Planning approve9 it, and as
Mark just r~fuinded ~e, the Town Board did the $EORA review.
MR. PALING-Okay. The SEORA review is done. Okay, then I guess
the questions oh my mind are having to do with the use that this
is going to be put to, the setbacks and the þarking. Are there
any questions by the Board before we start? Okay. Would you
introduce yourselves please.
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Chairman, I'm Michael O'Connor from the law firm
of Little and O'Connor. I'm here representing th~ applicant.
Wit,h me is the applicant. With me is the applicant~ Mr. Monsour.
I am probably going to play less of an açtive role in this
application than I have in others. I was not on board at the
public hearing when Mr. Monsour was here. I became i.nvolved more
for the re-zoning than the site plan. So I think we'll' pläy a
team as far as trying to answel" your questions. My understanding
of what is proposed here is no change from really what has gone
on for some number of years there, particularly since Mr. Monsour
has owned the property. He basically is trying to make a living,
and perhaps from time to time the use of the property changes in
some fashion, but from Day One, and even before Mr. Monsour owned
the property, when I'm familiar with the property, when it used
to be a Gulf gas station many years ago, that total piece of
property has been utilized for business ventures of this nature.
I think he has a sketch plan. I think it's to scale. It's
prett~ much as is. I think the only thing that is proposed to
cha, nge is that he is goi ng to put in a dr aina,ge ditch, if you
will, at the end,of what is shown a~ po~sible parking area, to
improve a low area there, and that's the only'change that he
proposes at all. Maybe you'd want to talk about the timetable.
Typically, what he's doing, I don't think we're in question here
as to the restaurant oper~tion. We're talking about external use
that's seasonal. I don't think thefê is any, and hasn't been
much external use. None is planned in January, February, March
or April. In May and June you have flowers. In July, you have
very little use. In August you have vegetables. September you
have no use, and October you're going to have some fall flowers
and maybe pumpkins, and in December, or from now until December,
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(Queensbury Planning,Boar<;i Meet~ng 11/21/95)
you're going to have Christmas Trees. None of the activities are
very extensive activities, as far as what is on site itself.
Christmas Trees you're probably talking about 400 Christ~as Trees
in total sales, hopeful sales, during that period of time. I
,think ,you've seen the flowers that ,are there. You've seen the
!1~~~et~ble~ ihai are there,', T~efe'sno~hingpermanent put up by
way QT s~í,µcture" '¡ don't' even k,now ,if' it qualifies as a
s-tructure. Some 'of the covering they have is not, I don't think
much o~" ú: fs '~n e~cess of '~OO square feet ~ which is your
~ccessoí,Y ~tructure type operation. ,So that bá~ically is what
he's proposing.
MR. PALING-Well, again, I think setbacks and parking are our only
concern. We're not, as you say, we're not concerned with the
major business within the building, but rather the seasonal
business, and again, it's setbacks and parking that we were
thinking of. The objection at the public hearing had to do with
the business that doesn't exist anymore, if I understand that
correctly.
MR. OBERMAYER-The business doesn't exist?
MR. PALING-Well, the flower business.
MR. BREWER-Mike and Joe, the parking, it just seems like it could
be a hazard. I don't know if it will be or not, but the first
parking space, I ~uess yo~ would call it the south end of the
parking lot, is right where the entrance to the parking lot is.
I can just see somebody backing out and somebody coming in. I
don't know if that's ever been a problem, or maybe we can shift
some of the parking over further, or eliminate maybe one or two
spots in the beginning, and just create them in the back, and
also on the north part of the parking lot, I know it's existing,
but that doesn't mean you can't fix something that's broke.
You've got the handicapped parking right in direct line where the
traffic comes in and out of the driveway. So for you to maybe
move that over to the right, where it's maybe a little bit safer.
MR. MACEWAN-Is there a ramp right there at that parking spot?
JOE MONSOUR
MR. MONSOUR-No, there's no ramp.
MR. MACEWAN-It goes
of the curb right
wheelchair could go?
up to a curb, but is
there going into
there a little portion
the building where a
MR. MONSOUR-That's open there, where you go into the building,
there.
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't think there's any step.
MR. MONSOUR-No, there's no step where you go into the doorway.
MR. O'CONNOR-Would it satisfy your question if you moved the
handicapped space to the other end of the building, and took up
the required width on the south end of the building, and that you
eliminate the parking for the first 30 feet offset from the
property line on Route 9? I think one inch equals thirty on that
map. So you'd eliminate at least the first two parking spots.
MR. BREWER-You're talking on the south end?
MR. O'CONNOR-On the south end of the parking.
MR. BREWER-All right. So eliminate the first two parking spaces?
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(Queensbury Planni ng Board Meèti ng '11/21J9'5)'
MR. O'CONNOR-Eliminate the first t~o spaces.
MR. BREWER-Yes, and just create them further down.
MR. O'CONNOR-Yes.
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MR'IßREWER-E~st?
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MR, O'ÇONNOR-X~~_
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MR:OßERMAY~'R-'R~a~istically~iào yqu gUY$
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MR. MONSOUR-No, there's not.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
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MR. O'CONNOR-I think this is more to show that
parking. I think the people pretty much come on
where they feel comfortable and they feel safe.
MR. OBERMAYER-So we could talk all about eliminating parking
spaces. There's no lines.
there's ample
site and park
MR. BREWER-Well, if there's no lines, then it's moot.
MR. O'CONNOR-We can maybe do something, no parki~g in that area.
MR. BREWER-Ma.ybe we can prevent people from parking in there.
Potentially. they could back fight out onto Route 9. '
MR. O'CONNOR-The handicapped I know we have to sign. So we can
sign those spaces, and we can put no parking out that end, if
that's a concern.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes.
MR. BREWER-That's fine. That's the only thing 1 can see wrong
with it.
MR. PALING-Okay. The public hearing was closed?
MR. GORALSKI-I'm not sure that the public hearing was closed.
MR. PALING-All right, lets be sure. Is there anyone that wishes
to comment on this application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-The SEQRA has been completed, so I think we can go
right to a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 27-95 G. JOSEPH MONSOUR,
Introduced by George Star k who moved for i1:r$i" aQ,qp,t.iQ,n, sec.o,nded
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by: Roger Ruel:
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To move the handicapped parking space on the north edge to the
other end of the building, and to eliminate ,t.l1e (ir$it,i:;.wo,par:king
spaces enter i ng on the south edge of the par ki ng" ldt 'ffomRoute
9.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
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(Queensbury PlanninQ Boar9 Meeting 11/21/95)
AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
NEW BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 15-1995 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED
MALCOLM BATCHELDER OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: SR-1A
LOCATION: SOUTH SIDE CLEMENTS ROAD PROPOSAL IS FOR A
SUBDIVISION OF A 4.39 ACRE PARCEL INTO 2 LOTS OF 1.53 ACRES AND
2.86 ACRES. APA TAX MAP NO. 27-3-1.1 LOT SIZE: 4.39 ACRES
SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 15-1995, Malcolm Batchelder,
Meeting Date: November 21, 1995 "The applicant proposes to
subdivide a 4.39 acre parcel into 2 lots of 1.53 acres and 2.86
acres. These lots will conform to all of the dimensional
requirements in the SR-1A zone. The 2.86 acre lot is improved by
a single family house, barn and swimming pool. The 1.53 acre lot
is presently unimproved, however, a portion of the lot is within
the 100 foot buffer zone of an APA jurisdictional wetland. The
APA has issued a permit for this project. A conceptual layout of
the lot indicates that a single family residence with the
associated on site sewage disposal system can be accommodated on
the site. Furthermore, the APA permit indicates that the soil
conditions are well suited for the proposed development. I would
recommend approval of this application."
MR. PALING-Okay. Any comments from anyone yet?
Preliminary Stage.
This is
MR. STEVES-For the record, my name is Leon Steves from VanDusen
and Steves~ This is something we saw last year, if you'll
recall.
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-The only outstanding issue was the wetland permit.
MR. STEVES-The APA permit.
MR. MACEWAN-Right.
MR. STEVES-That's correct, yes.
MR. PALING-Any questions? All right.
Leon?
,
Did you have any comments,
MR. STEVES-No.
MR. PALING-All right, then we'll open the public hearing on this
matter.;, D¡oe,§ .an,>,;one care. to comm~nt?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLÚSED
MR. BREWER-Did we do a SEQRA on this?
MR. GORALSKI-Back the first time? I don't know, to tell you the
truth.
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(Queensbury Planni n~" Bòârd Meeti ngl: 11/21/95') I
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MR. ÓSE'RM,AYE'R-.T.he $~IQRlf? ThefE1 lS ,~,SEORA ~t.t<:lch~'~I~ ,
MR. GORAL'srÓ:-'~i~S¡. :~ql+';¡ho,41~,R! ,d9,'aneH 'q,rte,!p6'W.
,R~~Ö4UTION WHÊ~, D~TERM~XNATtpN I bF:NO: $jGh~~~:ê:4b¿guilš:M!ÄdE
REsÖi.UTION NO. i~-19~5, :i~troåuced by James' 'oh~,rmayer wro moved
for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
.(.,
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the
MALCOLM BATCHELDER, and
Planning
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proppsed
project and Plpnning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environme~tal Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federa~, agency appears to be iTJvolved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Boprd is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Re0iew Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the. criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State o¥ New York, this Board finds that
the action about ,to be und~rtakeTJ by this èoard will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration thatm?y be required by law.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBqmbard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. M~cEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 15-1995
MALCOLM BATCHELQER, Introduced by James Obermaysr who moved for
its adoption. seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the
vote:
foll'owing
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Óbermayer,
Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 63-95
TYPE I
RONALD BENJAMIN
OWNER: SAME AS
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
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ABOVE ZONE: WR-1A, CEA LOCATION: ASSEMBLY POINT ROAD AT SHARP
BEND. PROPOSAL IS FOR AN ADDITION OF NEW 580 SQ. FT. SECOND
FLOOR TO EXISTING SINGLE STORY 1,175 SQ. FT. RESIDENCE. SECTION
179-79 REQUIRES SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL FOR ANY ENLARGEMENT
OF A NONCONFORMING__STRUCTURE WITHIN. A, CRITICA~ ENVIRONMENTAL
AREA. ' ''CRO$S · 'RI::FE~ENCE: AV 78-1995', . WARREN! CO. 'PLANNING:
11/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 8-2-6 LOT SIZE: 10,411 SQ. FT. SECTION:
179-16, 179-79 ' ,"
CHARLES JOHNSON, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 63-95, Ronald Benjamin, Meeting
Date: November 21, 1995 "The applicant requires a site plan
review because they are proposing an expansion of a nonconforming
structure. The expansion will take place within the existing
footprint and will be less than a 50% expansion of the original
structure, a variance for the modification of the decks within
the shoreline setback was received in October. The proposed
elevation indicates a design that mitigates the visual impact
from the lake by using the roof area to accommodate the second
floor. It does not appear that this project will have any visual
impact from the upland side, however, I could not determine if
there would be any impact on the property to the north. It
appears that this addition has been designed with sensitivity to
the lakeshore issues. If no issues arise as a result of the
public hearing, I would recommend approval of this application."
MR. GORALSKI-And the Warren County Planning Board said, No County
Impact.
MR. PALING-No impact from Warren County. Okay.
from the Boa,-d?
Any comments
MR. JOHNSON-My name is Charles Johnson. I'm an architect with
Paradox Design Architects.
MR. RUEL-Staff has indicated that all the work will
within the original footprint, and I see that a deck
removed and some new deck area will be built.
be done
will be
MR. JOHNSON-Correct.
MR. RUEL-Is that to be considered the same footprint?
MR. GORALSKI-The addition to the house, actually, is what I was
talking about, that will be done within the footprint. As I
said, the deck, the portion of the deck that's modified received
a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals, but that is part of
your site plan review.
MR. RUEL-Okay. Thank you.
MR. PALING-You're saying the deck will be removed and the
?uildiq;r w,ill b~ put in where the deckwqs?
MR. GORALSKI-No. There's a portion of the deck to the north, a
portion of that deck is going to be removed. It says, dotted
line indicates existing wood deck to, be removed, and then there's
a hatched mark to the south of that, says, cross hatched area
indicates proposed new wood deck. That received a variance from
the Zoning Board of Appeals, but that is part of your site plan
review.
MR. OBERMAYER-It did receive a variance?
MijA GORALSKI-YesA
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(Queensbury Planninè Boardl Meeting 11/21/95)' !
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay, because you're only, like, 20 feet from the
lake?
MR. JOHNSON-Right, and actually the expansion received as part of
the variance as well because it' was a nonconforming.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
,
MR. PALING-Any other questions at the moment? I thlnk what we
should do, then, is go right to a public hearing on this matter.
Is there anyone here that would care to speak on this matter?
PUBLIC HEA~ING OPENED
ENOCH ZYLOWSKI
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Enoch Zylowski. I live in a property on the north
side of the proposed addition, and when I spoke to the architect
at the last meeting, he said he would call me and have an
elevation showing the north side, as ~o what they intend to do.
I haven't heard from him, and I was just wondering what it was
going to look like, the north side elevation of their property.
MR. PALING-What side are we showing on the print?
MRS. LABOMBARD-There isn't a north side elevation.
MR. JOHNSON-There isn't.
busy.
I only drew the lakeside.
!'ve been
MR. OBERMAYER-You sit right next. to the applicant?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Right.
MR. OBERMAYER-But you look out straight onto the lake, right?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Right, but we have windows on that side of the
house. It's an existing house. It's been there since 1890, and
the last people that were there, we didn't come to the hea~ing
because we didn't want to have any fuss. Well, they closed the
porch in, and they cut some of our view off. Now this porch is
enclosed with the deck on that wasn't there before. It waß an
open porch, and a portion that is now enc10sed, and when I spoke
to the architect, he said he would have an elevat'ion on the north
side of that building, so that I could see what they were going
to do, because this doesn't really show it, and on a hatched mark
here, when I spoke to him, it shows approximately four feet to
the edge. He told me it would be right to the edge of the roof.
So what's shown here doesn't d~p¡ct what they intend to. do.
"
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Your property's right here, right, right to
the north? This is north? This is north. Your property's right
here? I'm just trying to get.a griþ on where you are.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-I'm right here.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. You're right here, and you're right on the
lake, too?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-So you look out at the lake this way?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-And then we have a window downstairs, in our rooms,
facing toward that area, ,and from what he told me, this now would
be moved right over to the edge, to the edge of the roof, which
would bring it closer to our property, which is okay, but he said
he was going to have an elevation showing just what it would look
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(Queensbury Planning BQard Meeting 11/21/95)
like.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
MR. STARK-Is that your only concern?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Yes, that's all.
MR. PALING-Do you still want that elevation?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Well, !'d like to have it.
MR. PALING-I think if it's something that 'y04 reque~ted, and they
consented to do it, that it really should be done.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Well, he said he was going to do it, and then call
me, but I haven't heard anything, so we're here just to see what
it's going to be like.
MR. PALING-Well, then we could postpone this until next week.
MR. STARK-Ask him what the elevation is. Maybe he knows.
MR. PALING-All right.
MR. JOHNSON-I can sketch it tonight.
MR. PALING-You mean just sketch it for them and show it to them?
All right. We can just hold this, and he's going to sketch it
out for you, and as soon as you're ready.
MR. JOHNSON-Hear the next applicant, and then we'll jump in after
that?
MR. PALING-Yes. Is that okay with you?
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Yes.
MR. PALING-Is that all right with the Board?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Fine.
MR. OBERMAYËR-That's fine if the applicant is willing to do that,
but I don't See what.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Well, it's just that when the last party bought the
house, there was an open porch there, and all of a sudden it was
closed in, and then there was a deck added, and he added decks
allover the place. I mean, it looked like Tarzan was moving
into the place, and they eventually made them take some of the
decks down, but that's past history.
MR. PALING-All right. Well, if he can make a satisfactory sketch
for you, and you're satisfied, then we can continue.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Just to find out where we sit on this.
MR. PALING-All right. Lets do it that way.
MR. MACEWAN-Let me ask a question. From the Board's standpoint,
to approve or deny this project, what bearing does the sketch
have on us?
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes.
MR. PALING-I think that in a public hearing, if someone makes a
request of the architect and the architect says he'll do it, then
it should be done.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. MACEWAN-But if he objects to the architect's rendering of the
elevation, are you in a position you're willing to deny the
project?
MR. PALING-No, no, ,no. He has a right to object to it, then
we've got to take it under advisement, but he does have the right
to object to it.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I thi nk that what Bob means is' that we should do a
conclusive publichea1-ing, and by not granting this gentleman's
request, that he was already told that the architect would do it,
I think we would be not turning over all the stones for him.
MR. PALING-Right. We wouldn't have finished the public hearing.
So, if you can get together now, and then come back and tell us
what your concerns with, if you're satisfied.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-It's just that he said he was going to do it, and
then I didn't hear anything.
MR. BREWER-Another thing is, if he makes the sketch, a~d it
satisfies the neighbor, and then what happens if he doesn't build
to the sketch?
MR. PALING-We can make the sket¿h part of the record, I would
think.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. I have a real hang up with this ~hole ideª of
even bringing this into þlay. Nothing against yo~r right~ of
your own property, but the applicant is proposing to build ~ two
story house that really, I mean, you guys look out on the lake.
Is your house a two story house?
MR. ZYLOWSKi-It's a three story.
MR. OBERMAYER-A three story hou~e.
PATRICIA ZYLOWSKI
MRS. ZYLOW$KI-Excu.se me. I'm Mrs. Zylowski. I had a very nice
view of the lake from my house before, from my bedroom and my
kitchen, and we didn't want to make a fuss. So we didh't say
anything. It's done, and it can't be undone. We just want to
make sure that when this is done, it's not out more~ covering
more. That's all. We just ask to see what was being done,
b€~cause what's here, I'm loo ki ng at, I don't thi n k is even what
he said last time he was doing. This,is supposed to b, bigger up
on top, and we just don't want to have somethi ng appro\/ed, and
then put up and then they say, well, it's done.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, I know, but, I mean, I can argue with you all
night as far as a person's property rights.
MRS. ZYLOWSKI-We don't want to stop anybody from doing anything.
We just don't want.
MR. OBËRMAYER-~0re, and this is only my opinion, too.
six other Board members, too.
We have
MR. RUEL--I'm quite concerned about the statement that both of you
made a moment ago, looking at the plan. You indicßted that it
doesn't look like what he's going to do.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Well, the way it's on here, i;.,his litt,le
is abou.t four feet from the end. When I spoke to :the
he sa id it would probab.l y be 1- ight to the end of the
this doesn't really depict what they have in mind.
d01-mer here
architèct,
house. So
"- 10 -
'-'
---..r
-....../
---
(Queensbury Plannin~ Board, Meetins 11/21/95)
,
MR. RUEL-But he would have to build in accordance with the plan.
MR. ZYLOWSKI-Well, that's not what he told me. He said this was
just a preliminary, the hatch space there was just a preliminary.
MRS. ZYLOWSKI-At the last meeting he said that.
MR. JOHNSON-See, the hatched area on the site plan that indicates
the area where the second floor, where the expansion would be, is
a pictorial. It's not an exact dimension thing of where the
actual second floor perimeters would be.
MR. MACEWAN-Based on that information, I would ask you to go back
and re-do it so it comes back exactly as we plan on approving it.
MR. BREWER-Exactly.
MR. RUEL-You can't give us a plan that's not accurate.
MR. MACEWAN-No. I mean, if this is what you're submitting to
this Board and looking for approval tonight, and if we approve
that, that's the way ~ expect it will be built. If you have
other ideas or other plans to something that's different from
this, I would ask that you submit those, for me to review, I
don't know how the rest of the Board feels.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. I agree.
MR. MACEWAN-That sets off a bell in me. I don't feel comfortable
in this at all.
MR. JOHNSON-It's not really a substantial change, but I can
understand your concerns. The problem from the applicant's
standpoint is to try and get a variance that could be denied,
where you'd have to get your project completely designed is a
little bit cumbersome, you're kind of putting the cart before the
horse. So this was a, the sketch was done as a spirit or intent.
It's not an exact. It's going to be modified or refined. I
don't know what the word is.
MR. MACEWAN-Then you'd only have to come back to the Board again
for another approval.
MR. JOHNSON-Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-Why would you make yourself a two step process?
MR. PALING-Could you bring this back next week?
MR. JOHNSON-Sure.
MR. RUEL-If you do that, you might as well bring the north
elevation.
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. JOHNSON-I can do that, too. All right. That's fair enough.
MR. RUEL-Do it right, and bring the north elevation, and we'll
look at it next week.
MR. OBERMAYER-You're saying this is not the way it's going to
look from the north.
MR. JOHNSON-Well, what's happened is the, see where that little
octagonal dormer is on the front?
MRS. LABOMBARD-The turret?
- 11 -
.',' ¡ '" '¡' !' ,..
(Queensbury Plannlng Board Meetlng 11/21/95)
/, n _' ,
-' i,
1, <.' : i '¡: ' )
That'~'gr~W~ tò the
I" _ ,I: ,>¡ ,,', ¡
r i,ght sÒ:n\e ;:" :,.1 t ' s' 410ved
I ¡I--, .I' , t '
MR.
JOHN$6',.:¡;;.;y'és.
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over.
;.. J
-¡¡ ,
MR. OßERMAYER:-::~hQ!<'J it"th~ W~y it1s 9Ring 't'o b~'.
, . ,
MR. JOHNSd~-bka9.
:1"'1
" 'T I
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\1
,t',
MR. PALING-We'll leave the public hearing open, and we'll ask the
applicant to allow us to table' this ànd we'll put it ' on next
week's schedule, and then we can come back and go,~h~ougþ, this
again, but I think it'll be pretty brief. t·,
MR. JOHNSON-Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-Included in our request, are we asking for ' a southern
elevation?
MR. JOHNSON-The
elevation?
elevation you're
looking for, the
north
MR. BREWER-The north elevation.
MR. PALING-The north elevatio~.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Craig's just asking, are we going to ask for a
southern one also?
MR. PALING-In addition to?
MR. GORALSKI-It's a north elevation.
southern direction.
It's looking in the
MR. MACEWAN-Right.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Do you think it would be a good idea to put an
approximate location of t~e front of the neighbor's house?
MR. JOHNSON-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Just in respect to where this is, so we could get
more of a good comparison.
MR. JOHNSON-Yes, I cafi do that.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I think that would be helpful fof all paities. I
just mean as far as how far their house goes to the lake, the
setback to the lake of the footprint.
MR. PALING-All right. Do we need a motion on this?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 63-95
by Roger Ruel who moved for its
Obermayer:
RONALD BENJAMIN, Introduced
adoption, seconded by James
Until the meeting of November 28th.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the
vote: '
following
AYES: Mr. MàcEwan, Mr. Stark. Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay. You'll be on the agenda, next week. . ¡ don't
know exactly where on the agenda, but you~ll be on the agenda;
- 12 -
'--'
''"--'
~
---
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
SITE PLAN NO. 70-95 TYPE: UNLISTED RD 2 BUILDINGS & PARKING
LTD. OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: PUD - RECREATION COMMERCIAL
LOCATION: WEST MT. SKI CENTER PROPOSAL IS TO CONSTRUCT A ONE
STORY & BASEMENT ADDITION OF 1,908 SQ. FT. TO EXISTING MAIN
LODGE BUILDING AT WEST MT. SKI CËNTER. WARREN CO. PLANNING:
11/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 124-2-7.2 LOT SIZE: 125 ACRES SECTION:
179-21
ED EPPICH & MIKE BRANDT, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 70-95, RD 2 Buildings & Parking
Ltd., Meeting Date: November 21, 1995 "The applicant wishes to
add a single story addition to the existing ski lodge to provide
additional tables and a ski school area. The proposal has been
changed to a slab on grade so there will be no basement. The
addition will be on the mountain side of the lodge and will not
change the character of the property. This location is also
preferred because it will not interfere with vehicular
circulation or parking. Given the large setbacks. large amount
of impermeable area and existing drainage patterns, this proposal
should not have any significant impact on stormwater drainage.
In conclusion, this proposal should have no significant negative
impact on the character of the neighborhood or on the natural
resources of the community."
MR. GORALSKI-And Warren County Planning Board said, No County
Impact.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Any comments by the Board?
MR. STARK-On the agenda it says a 1,908 squa,"e foot addition, and
on the plans it's 3,520 square foot addition.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. What happened,
well, is that they eliminated the
single story slab on grade, and you
should have received the new plans.
maybe I didn't explain it too
basement and changed it to a
received the new plans. You
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. BRANDT-I'm Mike Brandt. I'm the owner of that Corporation.
MR. EPPICH-I'm Ed Eppich. I'm the agent for the RD 2 Buildings
and Parking, Ltd.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. OBERMAYER-The 3520 square feet, you're
eliminated your basement, is that what it is?
saying you've
MR. BRANDT-'(e~.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, they eliminated the basement and then put
everything on one floor.
MR. BRANDT-It was in two layers, essentially the same square
footage, there about, done, only on one level, and that was to
get around some Code problems. After discussion with the
Building Department, we came to the conclusion that it would be
much wiser to do this on a single floor, rather than on two
floors. It really gets into New York Building Code.
MR. PALING-What about utilities in this case? There's no effect?
MR. GORALSKI-They're all going to be taken from the existing
utilities in the lodge.
- 13 -
--../
(Queensbury Planning Bòard Me~ting 11/21)95)
'¡' I
MR. PALING-And the purpose of this addition is to what?
MR. BRANDT-It's really seating capacity for people to sit down
and eat, or to observe, it's in an area where they ~an obs~rve
chi ldren taki ng lessons. It's a part of the Ski Center where, all
our lessons are given. A lot of parents come there to watch that
process and in the past, they r.ally haven't had v~ry good
seating. So this is a proposal to give them ~ome kind of ring
side seats for that purpose.
MR. PALING-You're not adding anything that would impact on
utilities, then, to any extent.
MR. BRANDT-I don't think so. I mean,ther..'s
electricity for lighting inside, and h¡~ting,
it. Heating probably propane gas.
a little bit of
bGt that's really
MR. RUEL-Separate heating for that area?
MR. BRANDT-Yes, a separate furnace for it.
MR. RUEL-Is this fire wall per Code, is that necessary?
MR. BRANDT-Yes, it is. The Building Depa¡rt;.,IT),e¡nt,; r,eql¡ly t;.old us
that we need to build a fire wall there b'éca'ùse' 6"f'the a'verall
size of all the bui ldi ngs . There was a discussion, W¡,th ,someone
from the State, or someone who was a specialist in fi~6~6de, and
they recommended that, well, they told us we 'C;eq,¡ly had to ,put a
fire wall in the~·e. )1"
MRS. LABOMBARD-So then it won't be open, just the access to it
would be from the annex right there with the swinging doors?
MR. EPPICH-Yes. They're part of the fire separation system.
These doors are automatically held open by a magnetic d~vice.
MR. RUEL-Just like a motel.
MR. EPPICH-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-The windows would kind of match the existing lodge?
Is that the way it~s going to be, so yqu'd have windows all the
way around?
MR. EPPICH-Generally. It's
existing lodge is. Because
what we're featuring.
pretty much all glass, like the
the view is up the hill, and that's
MR. OBERMAYER-Sure.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I've been over there f6r the past few days, and
the way this is, it's just kind of, for something of such a large
floor area~ it's set in there as if it's not hardly making any
impact, as far as the regular layout of the building that's
already there. I mean, for 3500 square feet, it must be because
it's indented there. So it really is a nice addition.
MR. OBERMAYER-It is very low there, though. I mean, water does
pond up right outside of that area, doesn't it?
MR. BRANDT-It ponds up closer to the mountain from there. That
area is up above it, but there is a drainage system that goes out
by the rope tow, and drains to the south.
;.:. ': ' . ~ .: ' !,'.' ,; ,'I I,., , ¡ I ;
MR. OBERMAYER-Ri'g'ht. 'I know when I b\" i ng my children ùP: there,
it does seem like there's a little pondish effect ri,~,ht t;.here.
, . I',
MR. EPPICH-There can be on occasion, yes.
- 14 -
~
--
'-'"
"---'
(Queensbury Planning Board MeetinQ 11/21/95)
. !,
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
MR. BRANDT-But it doesn't come near that building.
have some distance.
You'd still
MRS. LABOMBARD-And is the floor all going to be concrete?
MR. BRANDT-Concrete with some kind of a surface on it.
debating that surface vividly right now.
We're
MR. OBERMAYER-The other area is concrete.
MR. BRANDT-Yes, it is, and we are not totally in love with that
floor, but we sure tried different things with it, and with ski
boots, it presents some real problems. Most surfaces get very
slippery when they're wet, and so we're looking at a whole new
surface system. We're going to try it on another part of the
lodge, and if that works, we'd put it in here.
MR. PALING-Okay. Now there's no County impact on this. I think
what we should do now is go to the public hearing portion of
this. Is there anyone here from the public that would care to
comment, questions or what not?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. OBERMAYER-Is it just gQing to be seating in both
areas, or is this going to be a place where you
refreshments and stuff like that?
of these
can get
MR. BRANDT-Well, you can get refreshments, but it's really
seating for those refreshments. The ref~eshments are served out
of another part of the building.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right. Okay.
MR. EPPICH-Yes. It's seating like the main lodge, tables,
benches, and they get served at the cafeteria and bring their
food to the tables. More capacity is what's needed.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Mike, are you going to start building this winter,
this season?
MR. BRANDT-I think probably not, if I were to guess, watching the
weather patterns. I think it's just getting too late, especially
if we have to put that fire wall in, because then we have to
really cut off part of the existing building, and that would
really screw up things for our customers, so I think probably
not.
MR. PALING-Okay. This is an Unlisted Action, so we need a SEQRA
on this.
MR. GORALSKI-There should
application.
be a Short Form
in with your
MR. PALING-A Short Form.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 70-95, Introduced by James Obermayer who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
- 15 -
~
(Queensbury Planni ng Boa,d Mé:éti ng 11/2'1)95)
WHEREAS, there
application for:
,--
is presently before the Planning' B6á',;d
RD 2 BUILDINGS AND PARKING, LTD., and
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Plan~ing Board action is subject to review under the
state Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, B~ IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Cueensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set fo,-th in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Pla,nni ng Board is hereby author ized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer,
Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 70-95
!...IIL..., Introduced by Roger Ruel who
seconded by James Obermayer:
RD 2 Bl.¿Il,-QINGS & PARKING
moved for its adoption,
As written.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 65-95 TYPE: II JOHN & DEBORAH SKINNER OWNERS:
SAME AS ABOVE ZONE = WR-1A LOCATION: WESTERN SIDE OF
CLEVERDALE OPPOSITE tHE LAKE SIDE CHAPEL. PROPOSAL IS TO
CONSTRUCT A NEW DOCK WHICH WILL MEET PROPERTY LINE SETBACKS.
DOCKS ARE PERMITTED SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. WARREN CO.
PLANNING: 11/8/95 LAKE GEORGE COMMISSION TAX MAP NO. 14-1-7.2
LOT SIZE: .5 ACRES SECTION: 179-16, 179-60
JOHN MATTHEWS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
- 16 -
,-"
'-'"
'-
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 1~/21/95)
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plari No. 65-95, John & Deborah Skinner,
Meeting Date: November 21, 1995 "The proposed location of the
dock and boathouse does not meet the setback requirements or the
40' maximum length requirement. If the applicant centers the
dock and builds it perpendicular to the shoreline the Zoning
Administrator has determined that it will meet the requirements
of the zoning ordinance. By constructing the new dock in the
configuration desc,"ibed above, the dock will be further away from
the northern property line and, therefore, will have less impact
on the neighbor to the north without imposing any additional
burden on the neighbor to the south. This is said based on the
assumption that the new boathouse will not be any higher than the
existing boathouse."
MR. PALING-Okay. Warren County Planning says, No Impact in this
case. Lake George Park Commission, what do we know?
MR. GORALSKI-They have not issued a permit as of yet.
MR. PALING-They have not issued a permit. What does that do to
us?
MR. GORALSKI-Nothing.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Any questions by the Board at the
moment, or can we just put the question to the applicant that
John has raised? Okay. Would you identify yourself please?
MR. MATTHEWS-John Matthews, builder and agent for the applicant.
MR. PALING-Okay. Did you see John's report or hear what he just
said now? Would you care to comment on that?
MR. MATTHEWS-No.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. We discussed that today, and he's agreed that
that would be a good way to go about it.
MR. PALING-Okay. You've agreed to this. Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-The drawings that are submitted with our packet or
the drawing, with the 40 foot on one side and 30 foot on the
other side, that's all tÞe informatioD you need to make sure that
it ¡ meets~e'tt:)kê:: ks? . i '
MR. GORALSKI-No. See the way the drawing was proposed, it really
doesn't meet the setback. What he's got to do is turn that dock
so it's perpendicular to the shoreline, then center it on the
lot, and then it will be conforming.
MR. MACEWAN-Does he need to have a new drawing?
MR. GORALSKI~What I would propose is that you
that way, then when he submits his building
sure that it conforms to your motion.
pass your motion
permit, we'll make
MH. PALJ;NG-Okay.
"
MR. RUEL-In Other words, the new dock shoÜld, be.
MR~)SR,EWER-Prettymuch . the way it is, only sh~fted over to the
left.
MR. RUEL-Configured the way the old one is.
MR. GORALSKI-Except shifted over to the center of the lot.
- 17 -
(Queensbury Planni n'g Board Meet.ing 11/21/95)
MR. RUEL-But it's dif~icult to put it in the center of that
property, isn't it?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, as you can see by the
dock is not as wide as the existing one.
to do it with no problems.
drawing, the proposed
So you should be able
MR. RUEL-And the setback then will be.
MR. GORALSKI-Will be met.
MR. RUEL-Will be met, but we have to put that into the motion.
MR. GORALSKI-I would just include that in your motion. By doing
it this way, what you're going to do is you're going to improve a
nonconforming situation.
MR. MACEWAN-But I had nothing in my packet that tells me'how long
the doc k is 0)" how wide the doc k is. ,,' '1:; ','
MR. GORALSKI-Well, that dock there says it's 40
what your drawing shows.
feet long"" is
, . ~.' ¡
MR. RUEL-It says 40, and the old one was 30. t~é only thing
that's missing is the width.
MR. MACEWAN-How wide is the dock?
MR. MATTHEWS-Twenty-four feet, total.
,fj ; ¡
MR. RUEL-At'the ba.se there, 24~"
:-';,
"
MR. MATTHEWS-Six, twelve, and six.
MR. GORALSKI-And as I said, I would recommend that the height of
the boathouse or deck, whatever you want to call it, not exceed
the existing boathouse.
MR. BREWER-How tall is the existing boathouse?
MR. MATTHEWS-It meets all the requirements.
MR. GORALSKI-I don't know exactly what it is.
MR. MACEWAN-How do we know?
12 feet, and he comes back
are we going to know?
I mean, if the existing boathouse is
and he's got something 13 feet, how
MR. GORALSKI-At this point, I don't know that.
MR. PALING-Shouldn't we have a final sketch on this, at least
submit to you a final sketch on this that would show the location
of the dock aBd the width and the length of it, as well as
specifying the height above the mean highwater mark?
\ ¡
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I mean, the other thing you can do is give him
a height right now, of how high.
MR. BREWER-Fourteen feet.
MR. GORALSKI-That's what the Code says, which I think
what ¡~ ,is now, to be honest, to ~he top of the rai~i~g~
not positive. ", " ,"
J ;p J! 1
is about
ql,..lt I'm
I I '_j , ,
MR. 8Rg:,W~R-Â,S long as he's under, 14 '-teet.
ir: ;:1
" ¡
,
MR. PALING-Now does that l·f ,f¡e;et' iD~lude a rai 1 i ng'1 L
- 18 -
'"-'
~~
~
(Queensbury Plannin$;,J Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. GORALSKI-To the top of the railing.
MR. PALING-To the top of the railing,
specify that the railing should be open,
rather than a solid piece.
and I think we should
that is to Say spoked,
MR. MATTHEWS-Well, it's spoked now.
what's there.
We're going to duplicate
MR. PALING-Okay.
eventual motion,
everybody.
All right. I think that can be part of the
to have that all done, if it's all right with
MRS. LABOMBARD-That's fine.
MR. PALING-Okay. Now there's a public hearing on thìs. We'll
open the public hearing on this matter. Does anyone care to
comment, question?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-And this is a Type II Action. Okay.
MR. BREWER-All we've got to do is make a motion, right?
MR. PALING-Right. Lets go to a motion,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 65-95
Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who
seconded by Roger Ruel:
and include all of those.
JOHN & DEBORAH SKINNER,
moved for its adoption,
With the following stipulations: that all setbacks will be met,
and that the dimensions of the structure will be 40 by 24 feet,
and the new height not to exceed 14 feet to the top of the
railing, and that the new railing put on will be very similar to
the existing railing, with spokes, and not solid, and that a new
drawing be submitted with the application of the building permit.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
MR. MACEWAN-It's going to sit perpendicular to the shoreline?
MRS. LABOMBARD-No, it's not perpendicular.
MR. MACEWAN-That's what Staff recommended?
MR. MATTHEWS-Perpendicular to the average shoreline.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. It should be, in order
requirements of the Ordinance, he's going to have
it's perpendicular to the average shoreline and
lot.
to meet the
to turn it so
centered on the
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 66-95 TYPE: UNLISTED
AS ABOVE ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION:
GLENWOOD AVENUE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
EXISTING BUILDING BY APPROXIMATELY 836
HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO
CO. PLANNING: 11/8/95 TAX MAP NO.
JOHN MATTHEWS OWNER: SAME
CORNER OF BAY ROAD AND
INCREASE FLOOR SPACE OF
SQ. FT. ALL LAND USES IN
SITE PLAN REVIEW. WARREN
61-1-34 LOT SIZE: 1.76
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
ACRES SECTION: 179-23
JOHN MATTHEWS, PRESENT
MR. PALING-Okay, John, you're on.
MR. GORALSKI-Unfortunately, I didn't have any written comments.
All I can tell you is that it's a small addition on the rear of
the parcel. The current drainage system is leaching catch
basins, and the small amount of increased nonpermeable area
should be handled by the existing drainage system. The parking
is more than adequate. They used to have in excess of the
required parking, and that's about it.
MR. RUEL-I've got a question here.
space of 3900 square foot building.
building?
It says, to in~re4$e floor
Where's the 3900 square foot
: ¡, ~ T " A! r ':, :
MR. MATTHEWS-The multi angled building on the corner.
MR. RUEL-4900, is that the same
says 39.
GOR'Ät;SKI-It ' ,
MR. should be 49.
MR. PALING-What is the size of
building? This says 4900. This
. . . ., J' 'i I I,
The pl~n så;s 49; j¿~n.
'"" '>',.
the existing b'ullding?
MR. MATTHEWS-49.
MR. PALING-Is it 49? Okay.
MR. RUEL-Then it should be 49 instead of 39, right?
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. PALING-And then the rest of it's still the same.
MR. RUEL-And you will increase it?
MR. MATTHEWS-No. This is a reV1Slon to an existing site plan. I
used the old plan, and I built that building five years ago.
MR. RUEL-AII right, and the addition is 836 square feet?
MR. MATTHEWS-Correct.
MR. RUEL-Where the arrow says proposed landscape area, existing
parking relocated. Right?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-This must have been from the old plan, right?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
MR. RUEL-This has nothing to do with it, proposed landscape area,
existing parking, this should be out.
MR. PALING-There should be a note that says what?
MR. MATTHEWS-That this is a new addition.
MR. PALING-Right, and the other doesn't apply right now. Right.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. That's currently a landscaped area.
MRS. LABOMBARD~The new addition, that will be the only thing that
says 836?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. GORALSKI-Right. He used the old plan ,and never took that
note off, that's all.
MR. RUEL-All right.
MR. PALING-Okay.
this?
Then can we go right to a public hearing on
MR. OBERMAYER-I think so.
MR. PALING-All right. I'll open the public hearing on this.
Does anyone care to comment?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-This is Unlisted. So we'll need a SEQRA, Short Form.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 66-95, Introduced by James Obermayer who moved for
its adoption, seconded by Catherine LaBombard:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before
JOHN MATTHEWS, and
the
Planning
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
state Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 66-95 JOHN MATTHEWS, Introduced
by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine
LaBombard:
As written.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
SUBDIVISION NO. 21-1989 MODIFICATION CROSS ROADS PARK OWNER:
RICHARD SCHERMERHORN ZONE: MR-5 LOCATION: CROSS ROADS PARK,
CORNER OF BAY ROAD AND BLIND ROCK ROAD. PROPOSAL IS FOR LOT LINE
ADJUSTMENTS. SECTION A 183-13 F REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD APPROVAL
FOR ANY MODIFICATIONS TO AN APPROVED SUBDIVISION. TAX MAP NO.
46-2-9.4, 9.5
RICH SCHERMERHORN & LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from staff, Subdivision No. 21-1989, Cross Roads park,
Meeting Date: November 21, 1995 "The applicant wishes to modify
the existing subdivision approval so that 72 apartment units can
be constructed in 10 buildings on 6 lots. It appears that these
lots meet the requirements of the zonjng ordinance. There seems
to be several engineering issues raised by Rist Frost Associates
during their review of the site plan for lot 9 that actually
relate to the subdivision as a whole. The letter from Haanen
Engineering refers to the changes in the drainage plan for the
subdivision. These changes must be shown on the plat that is
signed by the Chairman and filed at the County. Finally, as is
the case with any modification, the Board should consider whether
the modification will result in a change to the previous SEQRA
determination."
MR. STEVES-I'm Leon Steves, from VanDusen and Steves.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Rich Schermerhorn, owner.
MR. GORALSKI-Bill MacNamara is here,
explain to you more what these issues
entire subdivision.
and he might be
are, that relate
able to
to the
BILL MACNAMARA
MR. MACNAMARA-Greetings. I essentially started out with, the
review was geared toward site plan review. We had been involved,
to some degree in the summer, and earlier as it turns out, with
subdivision modification, .and at the time we were looking at some
drainage issues. So the actual concept site plan, in terms of
department layouts, the first time we had seen it was last week.
So we sort of started with a site plan and kind of brought us
into a more general subdivision comments, but I understand our
review was for the site plan, if that makes any sense to you, and
I'll try to be as brief as I can, and T6m and I have gone over
most, if not all, of these, as well as with Jim on some of the
grading issues.
MR. BREWER-Bill, are
we going over the comments for the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
subdivision or the site plan, or is it a combination?
MR. MACNAMARA-Well, that's kind of why I lead into that.
MR. GORALSKI-What happened was, I,can take part qf the blame for
it. We did not'sen'd the subdivisIon modificåtion to Rist-Frost
because we thought it was simply a lot line adjustment. They
previously reviewed the modification, when there was some changes
to the road drainage, if you remember, I believe it was in August
or September. While Rist-Frost was reviewing the site plan
application, they realized that the lot lines were being
adjusted. They called me and asked me about it. I sent them the
proposed modification to the subdivision. At that time, a lot of
issues regarding separation distances and leachfields and sewage
disposal systems all came to the surface, and I know Bill and Tom
have been working this week to try and iron those things out. So
what happened was they were reviewing the site plan review and
realized that there may be some complications with the
rI;lqdi f iC(~tion to the subdivision. Is that any mor.e muddy?
¡.',
MR. BREWER-Yes, becaUse We're going to do this modification, and
thenwè're 90i\Î,9. to go rj.ght into the site plan~
~; ,
MR. GO~ALSKI-Right~ Well~ you're only g6ing to do the site plan
if you approve the modification for the subdivision.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, so that's the first thing.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. So that's what you're doing now.
MR. BREWER-So it's just simply the lot line adjustments?
MR. GORALSKI~Well, by doing these lot line adjustments, they're
increasing the number of apartments, and thereby the amount of
area for sewage disposal systems, the nonpermeable area that'll
have to be accommodated with stormwater management, that type of
thing.
MR. MACNAMARA-Okay. Generally speaking, our review is designed
particularly in instances with a þroject of a similar scope,
generally speaking to raise red flags, or our concerns, and not
to say that they're insurmountable, or they may have already have
been addressed, but what I'll generally talk about is items that
~ saw as potential issues that we're not yet comfortable with,
and this may have been better to be done at the last go around,
if you will, in terms of subdivision modification, but right,
wrong or indifferent, we hadn't seen the plans. So at that point
we believed it was simply kind of a drainage related change. In
a nutshell, we had reviewed a subdivision for this project back
in the 1990, '91 time frame for what I believe was called phase
II. There was less density, if you will. In general, there was
septic disposal on site that was about, somewhere around 25, 35
percent of what's being shown now in terms of total discharges,
and again, I'm really addressing more of this toward all of the
subdivision, versus the site plan. What it did is it tipped off
a thought that, gee, there's quite a bit of septic here. I
wonder if the Health Department needs to get involved. We pulled
out the realty subdivision requirements, and it did tri~ a
threshold, we believe, that the Health Department should have
gotten into it and said, hey, is community sewer required? If
not, lets issue a variance like they've done in plenty of
instances before. Apparently, DOH has determined they don't need
to do that with the sanitary. We still believe the threshold
numbers are there for some kind of a purpose. I mean, they
obviously, semantics aside, have some value or else they wouldn't
be in there. So what I did today is ask, is that somethi ng ~
need to do in terms of address, or is that, I think Mark's
probably looked at that.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. I don't know how difficult, it is to follow
through all this, but the issue that Bill's c0rrently referring
to is whether we need to somehow, enforce what we perceive to be
the Health Department requirements that should be imposed by that
Department. I thi nk the answer is no. A couple of people spoke
with Brian Fear, who is the Department of Health District
Director, who as I understand it indicated that in his opinion
the Department of Health did not have jurisdiction over this, and
that being the case, then I don't think it's incumbent upon us to
seek to enforce what we perceive to be a requirement., I did
suggest, and I do suggest, that the Planning Staff simply write a
letter to Brian Fear confirming that, so that some day, if this
question ever arises, it'll be in somebody's records that Srian
Fear was consulted and determined that there was no Health
Department jurisdiction.
MR. MACNAMARA-I agree, particularly because what Brian told me
during my conversation with him, which was, for whatever reason,
it's the way he explained it, he does want to look~t, I don't
know if he told you this, Tom, or not, but he does want to look
at the water supply, when I told him how many possible residents
could be being served, and I said, have you seen it Brian, and he
said, no, he hadn't seen it, and again, it's in the same Health
Department SubSection where sewage and water supply, community
systems, are reviewed, and he did say he needed to look at the
water supply aspect, but it's apparently a commercial versus
residential status on the sewage, and for whatever reason he
doesn't need to get into it, and that's fine. I just didn't have
the comfort level that maybe we need to do it as, because the
numbers were there, and again, they're there for some purpose.
MR. OBERMAYER-Doesn't the DOH need to grant an approval prior to
a CO, though?
MR. MACNAMARA-I don't know specifically.
MR. GORALSKI-No.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-What is the threshold number that kicks it into what
your concerns are?
MR. MACNAMARA-In this particular instance, it would be a possible
total resident count of 200 or greater, and the one you may be
familiar with is the number of subdivisions per lot. For
instance, Hudson Pointe was g)"eater than 50 lots, and it had to
go through this DOH variance procedure for on-site sewage.
MR. MACEWAN-In this case it's just strictly potential number of
residents?
MR. MACNAMARA-Correct.
MR. OBERMAYER-DOH has been consulted on this and they feel that
there is.
MR. MACNAMARA-That they don't need to get into it.
MR. OBERMAYER-That there's no issue or don't want to get into it?
MR. MACNAMARA-That they do not need to get into it.
MR. MACEWAN-Is that something that would be more closely looked
at, seeing as how they act as the local Board of Health?
MR. SCHACHNER-Not to the exten~ that we're talking about a Health
Department Regulation. I mean, I think the Town Board would
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(Queensbury Plannin~ Board Meeting 11/21/95)
likely take the same position that I'm suggesting, which is that
it's up to the Department of Health to enforce their own
regulation if they feel it's applicable. If that Department
feels it's not applicable, I don't think it's incumbent upon any
Board of the Town to enforce that.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
TOM NACE
MR. NACE-Maybe to add, if I may, to add one little bit of
clarification, for the record, my name is Tom Nace with Haanen
Engineering. What the Department of Health normally looks at
when they grant variances for the sewage requirement, the
municipal or the community sewage system requirement of 50 lots,
or 200 residents, they normally look to see, is there municipal
water there. If there's municipal water, then, are the soils
adequate to support septic systems. If that is the case, their
history has been granting variances for the sewage. Their real
concern is to make sure that you don't have small lots, high
density of septic systems, and on-site water supplies that could
be compromised by the septic.
MR. MACEWAN-And you're saying that if the case had been served by
a private well, it probably would have kicked it into, they would
look harder at it.
MR. NACE-At least if it had been a subdivision of 50 individual
houses, they would take a very hard look at it if you had
individual wells, and normally would not grant a variance.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay, but you're not requesting anything from the
DOH regarding a variance?
MR. NACE-No. They have no jurisdiction in the matter on sewage.
MR. MACEWAN-So for us, we just need to document that phone call,
Mark, and have some sort of letter on file that says they have no
problem with it?
MR. GORALSKI-Right. I will write a letter to Brian Fear, stating
that it's our understanding that our Consulting Engineer spoke
with him on this date, and that we were told that he felt that he
did not need to issue any type of permit or variance for this
proposal. If he has a problem with that, please contact us.
MR. OBERMAYER-How many of these are existing now?
MR. NACE-These apartments? They're all proposed.
MR. OBERMAYER-They're all new. Okay.
MR. NACE-Actually, only Lot 9 is proposed in the site plan before
you now, but the others are shown for later.
MR. GORALSKI-Were there a couple of other issues?
MR. MACNAMARA-Yes. Basically in terms of general drainage, a lot
of this goes back to the fact that there is, to give you a
magnitude of order, at least a kind of a general feeling for the
septic for the lot we're talking about, essentially on nine
acres. It's the parcel right across the street. I'm sure you
guys have probably seen it. Somewhere around plus or minus the
design flow of 18,000 gallons a day of sewage discharge, which in
and of itself, depending on how much area is involved, is just
another number of design flow, but the thing that has us thinking
is that the change that we actually approved in the summer time
changed the drainage concepts from retention basins, if you
- 25 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
remember, albeit complicated, there were retention basins that
were sort off and away, in many instances from the general area
of where you'd have septic disposal, but what it's shaping up to
be now is that all th~ stormwater disposal for the development is
going to be brought right back into where the houses and septic
systems are. So now you've got a pretty good density of septic
going into the ground, and you've also got stormwater being put
in the ground also. So we're trying to make sure that both work
properly and one doesn't impact the other, if yOU will. So,
anyway, we know that on a couple of previous occasions in
previous years there's been some drainage issues across the
street we've had to get into. So we know that it is possible for
water not to quite run into the ground quite as quick as we might
like it to over there. So we asked for some initial data for
that, and I believe Tom has given, he just gave me something when
I came in. So that's really what the second paragraph noted, but
more importantly is that there needs to be a feeling of comfort,
I guess, before everyone ki nd of buys into the layout as shoL'Jn.
That all the septic fields that want to go over there can go over
there, and so can all the on-site stormwater, with adequate
separation between the two, so they'll function, so the stuff
won't screw up. That's really what we're looking for, and that's
some of the data that we had asked for.
MR. MACEWAN-Have you run some numbers on that, to check it out
yourself?
MR. MACNAMARA-We've run some general numbers, but typically
speaking, we don't get into the design aspects for projects that
we review.
MR. BREWER-Well, how will we know that it works or doesn't work
if you don't review it?
MR. MACNAMARA-I'm going to review it, but we've asked for some
data from the applicant. Generally the applicants provide the
data, the Town reviews it.
MR. OBERMAYER-Have you reviewed the applicant's data?
MR. MACNAMARA-No. He's given us some stuff this afternoon, that
I have not had a chance to get into. I did look over it ,very
briefly, and I think it's kind of a broad base. He applied some
different volumes of waste and stormwater over the entire site.
We may need to look at it more closely in terms of a drywell
versus a septic field. The thing that's a little dicey here that
you can show on one particular site that you have a septic and
stormwater may be just great, but then when yoU put it all
together, in point sources if you will on the lot, how's it going
to work together. We're not saying it's not going to work, don't
get me wrong. All I'm saying is we haven't quite got that
comfort level yet.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
MR. BREWER-So before we go on to the site plan, do you feel that
we should get the data and 'maybe a model to show that it would
work? If you remember a subdivision we talked about last month,
we asked them to do that.
MR. MACNAMARA-I guess I wish I were here for the subdivision.
MR. GORALSKI-No.
subdivision.
That was
two months ago,
the Beeman
MR. BREWER-Something similar to that.
MR. OBERMAYER-To me it just seems like that Rist-Frost is not
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
comfortable, yet, with the information that you've provided,
because you just provided it to them today. Maybe if you have a
chance to digest it, it would make, I mean, it's very difficult
for us to make any type of decision on the subdivision and the
intensity of the use of this lot without you really reviewing the
data. That's mz opinion. I could poll the Board, but that's the
way 1 feel.
MR. MACEWAN-I would rather, before I would lend an approval to
this modification, I'd want to hear Rist-Frost's input regarding
the data.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right. That's mz feeling.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. NACE-Can we back up a second?
MR. OBERMAYER-Sure.
MR. NACE-Tim referred to requesting a model and Bill has been
headed toward looking at ground water mounding as a concern under
these septic systems and under the drywells. Groundwater
mounding, if you really want to do an analysis that means
anything, is a very, very complicated and very theoretical, very
inexact science, and it's, foY either me to do it or for Bill to
review it and understand it is something that, for the types of
soils here and the densities we're talking about, it's the
densities we're talking about here are what your Code permits in
the MR-5 zone, okay. It's what the, when they re-zoned this
area, what they thought was applicable for the existing
conditions of the area. I have looked at it. I'm perfectly
confident after looking at the numbers that because of the
permeability and the depth of the soils, plus the fact that on
the west end of the site we do have an outlet where groundwater
can outlet to the stream, that the wetland, the little pond down
there, that we're not in an area where there's lens of play or a
bowl that retains groundwater, okay. We're in an area where
there's an outlet available. As long as the permeability is
adequate groundwater has somewhere to go. I took what I thought
was a fairly conservative look at groundwater mottling today, or
groundwater mounding, for the entire proposed subdivision, using
the design flows for septic systems which are conservative, and
the total amount of water put in this site over the period of a
year, the whole year, for stormwater infiltration and the
septics, amounts to about 28 inches of water, okay. With the
permeability of that soil, 28 inches of water very easily moves
through that I'm sure in a matter of a week, let alone a year. I
looked at some other theoretical, very detailed groundwater
mounding stuff that's available, and on similar sites, for actual
tests done underneath infiltration basins and stormwater
retention basins, with similar soils, 60 centimeters, which is I
guess about two feet, a little more than two feet of water
dissipated laterally within a period of five days, okay, to give
you some general perspective. So I'm not sure that I'm convinced
that we've got such a major problem here that warrants a very
expensive, very detailed computer ßnalysis of groundwater.
MR. OBERMAYER-I don't think anybody's asking for that. I think
all we're asking for is Bill to review the data that you've
submitted to him, because he hasn't had a chance to do that.
MR. NACE-I no problem with that.
MR. MACEWAN-If you feel comfortable with the data, your
calculations, and Bill concurs with it, I don't think we have a
problem.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR.OBERMAYER-Yes. I don't think so either.
MR. MACEWAN-A couple of points that I'd like to bring up that
concern me here, or questions I guess, is that even though you
said that the density, or the Code allows that kind of density on
that parcel of land doesn't necessarily mean that the soils would
be able to handle that, that amount of discharge. As we've said,
we've had some problems with ponding over there before, in that
close vicinity.
MR. NACE-I'm not familiar with your previous problems, but we
have done, up in Lot 9 today, Leon's field crew did four
percolation tests. They were all in the vicinity of one to one
and three quarter minutes.
MR. MACEWAN-Based on the fact that you gave this data to Bill
late this afternoon, I would personally feel comfortable with him
having the opportunity to review it.
MR. NACE-I have no problem with that. I just don't want to get
back into doing a very theoretical analysis.
MR. MACEWAN-A question I think I would have of Staff is that I
heard a comment, something about an option, correct me if I'm
wrong, that potentially you could discharge water into the
wetlands, stormwater into the wetlands? Did I pick up on that
right, or did I miss it?
MR. GORALSKI-I think we were getting into a very technical area
there that, I'v,e ,got to,be honest with you, I didn't,und,erst,Qnd,
and they can't discharge water into that p'ond . Tom was .tafki ng
about groundwater movement.
MR. NACE-I'm talking about groundwater movement.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay. I misunderstood you then.
MR. MACNAMARA-To kind of clarify that, that brings up one of our
concerns, is that if you look at the density of the leachfields
behind the ~roperties on the west side, what Tom is saying is
basically, when all else fails, if vertical isn't going to work,
horizontal will work. It really goes to our concern about
mounding and having water levels come up too close to where the
leachfield bottoms are, and if the water levels there are too
close, your pollutants do not get treated through the soil, they
get in the groundwater and ¡,if it finds a gOOQ, gr ad,ient , and
tlwre's a good gradient to that pond out back. that's ,really one
of our ,cOnçe:r, n~""", Quite hooest,~ y, Tom, that's exact 1 y one of our
''': ·'i
concerns.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Well, before we get into a
each other, you submitted information to Bill.
table this for a week, okay, and it'll give you
the data that he just submitted.
contest between
Why don't v,¡e
time to review
MR. NACE-Before you table, why don't you go through the public
hearing, since you've advertised it.
MR. GORALSKI-There's no public hearing on the site plan
modification. What you'd have to do is simply table the
subdivision modification and go on to the site plan review.
Personally, I don't think you can act on the site plan review,
but since the public hearing was noticed, I would recommend that
you open the public hearing, take any public hearing, and leave
it open.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. So
for right now, until
we'll table the subdivision modification
next week, if that's okay with the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
applicant, give you guys time to work things out, and we'll move
on to the site plan. We're just going to have the public
hearing, because we advertised for it.
MR. SCHACHNER-Just so the Board knows, you're not prohibited from
having a public hearing on the modification. You generally don't
because most modification proposals that face you are very, very
minor. I'm not suggesting you should have a public hearing. I
just want to make sure the Board recognizes that if you feel that
a proposed modification is very significant or very material, you
do have the right, under the Subdivision Regulations. to call for
another public hearing.
MR. OBERMAYER-But we didn't advertise for the public hearing on
the subdivision, did we?
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MR. OBERMAYER-When we open up the public meeting, we will listen
to whatever anybody has to say.
MR. SCHACHNER-And that's a good way to handle that.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
anything?
Do we need to make a motion to table
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-AII right.
MOTION TO TABLE MODIFICATION TO SUBDIVISION NO. 21-19~9 CROSS
ROADS PARK, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption,
seconded by James Obermayer:
Until 11/28/95.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel. Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling
SITE PLAN NO. 67-95 TYPE: UNLISTED RICHARD P. SCHERMERHORN,
JR. OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: MR-5 LOCATION: LOT #9,
CROSSROADS PARK PROPOSAL IS FOR AN 8 UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING ON
.98 ACRE SITE. ALL USES IN THE MR-5 ZONE ARE SUBJECT TO SITE
PLAN REVIEW. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 11/8/95 TAX MAP NO. 48-3-
34.1 LOT SIZE: .98 ACRES SECTION: 179-18
RICH SCHERMERHORN; LEON STEVES; TOM NACE PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 67-95, Richard P. Schermerhorn,
Jr., Meeting Date: November 21. 1995 "The following comments
are made in reference to the site plan review standards set forth
in Section 179-38 E of the Zoning Ordinance. 1. The location,
arrangement and size of the building appears to be compatible
with the site. 2. The location, arrangement and number of
parking spaces is appropriate for the use and for this specific
site. 3. The adequacy of the proposed stoTmwater management
system and the proposed sewage disposal will be reviewed by RFA.
4. The clearing along the north property line of this lot will
virtually remove all of the vegetation on the lot. After the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
slope is graded to accommodate the sewage disposal system, the
slope should be revegetated so that a buffer of at least twenty
feet is established along the property line. The buffer should
be made up of conifers of sufficient size to provide an immediate
screen."
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Rich Schermerhorn, owner.
MR. STEVES-Leon Steves, VanDusen and Steves.
MR. NACE-Tom Nace, Haanen Engineering.
MR. GORALSKI-Warren County said
open the public hearing, I have
this afternoon.
No County Impact, and when you
a letter that was faxed to us
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Before we do that, maybe we could just talk
about the vegetation along the north side.
JIM MILLER
MR. MILLER-Jim Miller, Landscape Architect, Miller Associates.
The second page shows the proposed site landscaping and in order
to grade the rear of the lot to accommodate the leachfields, we
have to grade back to approximately five feet from the Tear
property line. Right now there's brush there, mostly grey stem
dogwoods, and some mixed trees, and the other side of the
property is Cedar Court. So there will be some vegetation there,
not much, about five feet, plus there's some, Cedar Court is
cleared from the other side up to also almost the property line.
So there would be some hedgerow there. We had proposed screening
along the east side, along the property line, where the existing
vacant lot that's on the side facing the toward Bay Road, that
would be screened with Pine trees and screen the area around the
dumpster enclosure, to screen the parking lot frQ.m :t;.hat side, and
I guess in reviewing Staff's comments 'about some additional
conifers along the back, we would be willing to add some planting
along that back slope there.
MR. OBERMAYER-Any questions anybody?
MR. MILLER-One thing I would suggest, one of the comments was
made that a 20 foot buffer be provided. If you look at the
grading there, we have a slope there that's about five feet high,
and I would suggest that any of the evergreens that are planted
along there be planted up at the top of the bank where they're
going to do the most good. If we come down 20 feet, you're going
to plant a Pine tree five feet high, and you've got a five foot
bank behind it, it's going to have no impact. So I think it
would be better to probably have the buffer on the top of that
slope will have more impact for separating the two properties.
MR. BREWER-What do you suggest that you would put for a width of
a buffer?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I see what's Jim saying, and I that makes some
sense. I think what we'd have to do is start at the top of that
hill, and obviously stagger them. We're not going to put just a
straight line of trees, but maybe if we stagger them, and I'm not
sure, what he's saying is he's trying to get the most screening
based on using the hill and the shrubs. So we have to, maybe Jim
could propose some type of layout.
MR. MILLER-But typically what we try to do in a site like that is
use something native like white pines, and the other thing we try
to do, rather than plant them in a row, like a hedge, to mix the
sizes and plant them in groups, 'where you may have some that are
five, six feet high, and then cluster several smaller ones around
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it, so you have more of a natural effect, rather than it's a row
of pi nes down the p)-operty Ii ne. So that would be ou)-
recommendation.
MR. BREWER-So essentially there's going to be a five foot buffer
there?
MR. MILLER-Well, what we've shown there on the grading plan is
that we graded the site up to about five feet from the property
line, so it's pretty dense brush there now. So anything that was
within five feet of the property line would remain. So there
would be some vegetation there, but you can see on Sheet One
where the clearing on that bank would occur.
MR. BREWER-What's on the other side of the property line, John?
MR. GORALSKI-Probably about the same thing as on this side of the
property line.
MR. MILLER-It's about the same thing, and what's proposed, on the
other side there's a clearing there. It's going to be the area
where the tile field is going to be, the community sewage field,
for Cedar Court is back there. So there's no buildings or
anything proposed immediately behind this lot.
MR. BREWER-So when you come back next week, can you show us what
you might put there?
MR. MILLER-Yes. We'll talk with John and work something out to
his satisfaction.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Why don't we open up the public hearing
then, and see if anybody has any comments. I'd like to open up
the public hearing now, if anybody wishes to comment on this.
PUBLIC HEA~ING OPENED
JIM ROBERTS
MR. ROBERTS-Good evening. My name is Jim Roberts. I'm a
property owner at Cedar Court. In fact, my duplex is directly
right behind the area in question. I think I have yet to see a
site plan or whatever. Would it be possible to put one on the
easel or whatever so we could take a look at that?
MR. GORALSKI-I just want to show you, this is the lot they're
talking about right now.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, that one lot right there.
MR. GORALSKI-Although his proposal is to eventually develop the
rest.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, and this is what he's proposing right now.
MR. ROBERTS-Okay. One of my concerns is the buffer that is going
to be between the two developments, and I don't know if anybody's
been over by there on our side, in our development, but the
central leachfield that was constructed for our development, I
had a real problem with. They just raked every tree right off of
there, and it's about the size of a football field, and from my
back deck now, I have such noise from the cars going down Bay
Road, I feel like I'm living on a median of the Northway, and
when I heard that there was going to be a development of this
size, I had some major concerns with how many units, and what I'm
going to be looking at from the back of my property. When I
moved in there, I've been there a year, it was very heavily
vegetated. There was some huge white pine trees, and various
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
other scrub pines and what have you, and I don't know who the
gentleman is that was just talking about the landscape ~lans, and
says that it was somewhat heavily buffered by trees or whatever.
There's not many trees there, and I would appreciate, before you
act and give approval on this entire project, that we do take a
really good look to see just exactly how they're going to buffer
this, because, personally, I'm very in tune with apartment
complexes. I had one for 18 years. I had 111 apartments. I
know how tough it is for people that own properties that abut and
bound apartment complexes, and I was very concerned with what. I'm
going to be looking at from the back of my deck, and that's
probably all l.have to say.
BILL BROWN
MR. BROWN-I'm Bill Brown. I live on Cedar Court. I'm a new
resident in Queensbury, just a few months. I didn't receive any
written notification, but I can understand that. I, likewise, am
very concerned about the buffer and the comments that we should
have, or we may have, or we may have conifers, or we may have
this. We're not sure what they're going to be, and how high is
the bank, estimated numbers. Probably my biggest concern is the
density and the overall plan, and the site disposal and storm
runoff. That is all going to go into Halfway Brook, eventually,
and that I would expect each one of you to really consider
heavily what's going to happen there with that, because that's
going to be the biggest impact on the Town of Queensbury. Thank
you.
MR. ROBERTS-Thank you.
MR. OBERMAYER-Sure. Would anybody else like to comment?
MR. GORALSKI-I have a letter.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. You might as well read it in now.
MR. GORALSKI-This is to the Queensbury Planning Board from J.
David Michaels, "Please take under consideration that we feel
strongly that a mlnlmum 50 foot undisturbed buffer zone be
required for the property immediately adjacent to Cedar Court
community. This is very important to us to maintain reasonable
privacy, and a true sense of community for both current and
prospective Cedar Court homeowners. There cur~ently exists a
very mature treed buffer which we hope will not be disturbed for
the width of at least 50 feet. Sincerely, J. David Michaels"
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. Would anybody else like to come up and
comment? I'm going to leave the public hearing open until next
week because we're going to be talking about this again after we
have the subdivision.
MR. GORALSKI-All right. I just want to clarify something. I'm
not sure what body of water you were talking about, but Halfway
Brook is significantly south of this. It runs through, down by
Bay Meadows Golf Course and up through Hiland Park. I think you
may be talking about the pond, and then the wetland that runs
behind Cedar Court. Is that what you're talking about?
Hunterbrook. Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Does that go into Glen Lake, Hunterbrook?
MR. GORALSKI-I don't believe so.
MR. BREWER-Can I ask the applicant a question? Is it possible,
before next week, or maybe by Monday or something, you can flag
where the end of the grade would be, in other words, up to where
your property line is here? I have no idea where the property
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
line is. I just want to see where your going to end the
vegetation. I'd like to go over there and just see where you're
going to end the vegetation, see where it is.
MR. GORALSKI-Stake out where the limit of clearing is.
MR. NACE-And the property line.
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-For the record, Rich Schermerhorn again. I
appreciate the public's comments. I personally walked up there
today for this reason. I knew all this was coming. I did have
the property line flagged all through, all down through Cedar
Court, where the new units that would be proposed. I'm as much
concerned as you are about privacy and everything else in the
back yards. Me being the owner of these apartments, I can
control what goes on behind my apartments. As you know, there's
a hom~owners association in Cedar Court. Each homeowner can
choose to keep his own lines or whatever behind his house or
whatever, but I think that, you know, the property line actually,
we're not going to be clearing up to the property line. I'm
going to, obviously, try and keep as much vegetation, and add
more if we can, but I believe that Mr. Michaels, from the
Michaels Group, may be someone that you may want to voice some of
your concerns as well, because when I was up there today, they're
putting a septic system in, and Mr. Roberts said it. They raked
everything. I mean, it's a big wide open field, and their septic
exposed, and there's no screening plan for them concerning !I!.:i..
property.
MR. ROBERTS-Well, somebody had to have approved that.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right. Well, it's all coming down on me now,
but I'm just saying that if you walk and it's flagged, and you
can go on my property if need be, they cleared right up to the
property line. So it seems like the bulk of the responsibility
is going to come back on me, but I'm willing to work with all the
homeowners and stuff, because there are basically three buildings
that I think that'll have immediate effect on the new buildings
that will be going in behind me. I mean, I'm willing to work
with the people, but I think you should voice some of your
concerns to the Michaels Group as well, because they have cleared
everything, I mean right up to the property line, and I'm not
proposing to clear up to my property line.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. Rich, if you can just prepare like your
planting, like we had talked, to show what the buffer would be,
that might address a lot of the neighbor's concerns.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right.
MR. OBERMAYER-What the planting scheme is going to be.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right. Well, I can address Lot 9, which is what
we're in here for site plan now. To say, to go and address the
whole property line, Lot 9 is no problem at all.
MR. BREWER-That is flagged right now?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-The whole line is flagged. I had it flagged a
couple of weeks ago.
MR. BREWER-Can you flag where the end of the grade's going to be
for the septic, just a few stakes, just so I can get an idea of
what's going to be there and what is there.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Okay, and just for the record, I have done no
clearing, absolutely no clearing, and I don't intend to clear
anymore, I mean, as little as possible.
MR. OBERMAYER-When do you think that staking could be done, so
that we could.
MR. STARK-Make our plans to go look at it. We're not goIng to be
able to look at it as a group, but we'd go up individually.
MR. OBERMAYER-Could it be done by Friday?
MR. MILLER-Yes.
only to the back
already.
It's not going to be that much,
property line, and property
because, it's
line's flagged
MR. BREWER-The grade's going to be within five feet of the
property line, is that what you're saying?
MR. MILLER-Yes.
MR. BREWER-So then it's not necessary to stake it.
property line's done, then.
If the
MR. MILLER-Whs.t we're doing, we came back to the
what happens in our grading plan is the top of
where our property ends, levels right off, and
come about five feet in from the property line,
down, grade the area for the septic.
top of our bank,
the bank, right
we're going to
and then grade
MR. BREWER-So it's a couple of steps in from the property line
flag, so I don't think it's necessary.
MR. MILLER-And then when we grade, we'll put new plantings in.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. So what
to create a landscaping plan
property lot, so that you can
just for Lot 9.
you're going to do is you're going
for us for that lot, for the rear
have it to us for the next meeting,
MR. MACEWAN-Will it be delivered to us on Monday, so that we can
have it to review it Monday?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. If they get it to me Monday morning, I can get
i;t. to you dur i ng. t¡he, day Monday.
MR. OBERMAYER-I think those are the real concerns of the
neighbors, and of course the engineering concerns regarding
subdivision, if you could address those.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I have a comment to make. I was a bit chagrined,
here, because I'm sitting here thinking, what have I missed, how
come I'm in the dark about the land being raked, and if Rich
hadn't come back up here and said something, I mean, I was going
to wait until everybody finished and finally say, who cleared all
this land, and I just think that it was kind of fair in the
beginning with the public comments to lead, I think I was mislead
here to think that Mr. Schermerhorn cleared all the land, and he
really didn't. Now when he comes back for his site plan, with
the landscape plan here, obviously, it's only going to be on his
property. So what's happened is, wouldn't it be yeTY nice to
have double that amount on the Michaels' property. So j think,
really, that YOU people, at Ced,ar COM,r,t have ô. l€f't~itimate ,reason
to go to your bu.ilder and as,k hi~ to do his shaTe of i~, ,t90~ and
then yoU-' 11 hav,e a nice buf,fer. I just, had to p,ut that in,
because like I said, I felt some consternation about thii.
MR. MACEWAN-But that's a different situation over there, isn't
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
it? I mean, those
property, correct?
you buy.
duplexes are sold as individual parcels of
That is not owned the Michaels Group, once
MR. ROBERTS-That area is common area.
MR. GORALSKI-There is an easement for a community sewage disposal
system. That area was cleared, and it was built as it was
approv.d by the Planning Board.
MR. MACEWAN-Right. He didn't violate any zoning ordinances over
there.
MRS. LABOMBARD-No, but I know for a fact, I built four houses in
this Town, well, three, and renovated one, and you don't need to
clear out your entire lot to put up a septic system.
MR. MILLER-That's a community system, though. So it's a large
area.
MR. OBERMAYER-But that's really not why we're here, to talk about
that other subdivision. Lets talk about this site plan and keep
it to that. I'd like to table it with the applicant's approval.
MR. NACE-Sure. Are we sure we know, are there any other concerns
we should be addressing?
MR. OBERMAYER-I think that's the only concerns we have, as a
Board.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-I've just got one comment. I appreciate
everybody's concerns, but the letter that the Michaels Group did
write, really, I think is unfair, because they're leaving it up
to me to leave the buffer 50 feet for everybody else, and they've
already cleared up to your property line.
MR. BREWER-We'll take that into consideration, Rich.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, and we're glad that you mentioned that, and
that is for the record, and we'll take that into consideration.
MR. MILLER-Thank you.
MR. OBERMAYER-Make a motion to table.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN
JR., Introduced by Roger
seconded by George Stark:
NO. 67-95 RICHARD P.
Ruel who moved for
SCHERMERHORN.
its adoption,
Until 11/28/95.
Duly adopted this 21st day of November, 1995, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Obermayer
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling
DISCUSSION ITEM:
SITE PLAN NO. 61-95 JOHN BROCK OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE:
WR-1A LOCATION: MOORING POST MARINA FOR SEQRA DISCUSSION ONLY.
TAX MAP NO. 13-2-19, 21, 37 LOT SIZE: 3.386 ACRES SECTION:
179-16
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MR. PALING-Just to repeat, we have a very important and sensitive
issue before us. The decision has been made that the ZBA is the
lead agency. There will be no comments, other than from the
Board and from Staff, no comments, questions or anything from
anyone except the Staff and the Board. I'm being brief now
because I was at length before, and we are going to have a SEORA
review and act as consultant or advisor to the Zoning Board of
Appeals. They will do the SEQRA on November 29th. There will be
a public hearing when they do the SEQRA. We will, if they pass
this on to us in the form of having approved the variances, we
will have a site plan review, at which time there will also be a
public hearing, but tonight there is not. Now I'll ask, first,
if there's any comments from the Board, and then gather them
together, and then I think we should go over the SEORA form, and
cover any questions and problems we may have. Now one other
point. You were given a packet of letters tonight, which we
haven't seen before and it's too big to read. So I'd ask
everyone to review those during the week and we'll open it up for
a very brief discussion again, Board and Staff, at the next
meeting, but it should be limited to any comments or conclusions
you've drawn afte)- having read these letters. I've got the same
packet. I haven't seen them.
MR. BREWER-Can I make a comment to that?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. BREWER-I agree we maybe should go over the SEORA, and any
personal comments that we have right now get out, but also I
would think that we should have maybe a broader discussion next
week after we have a chance to read the letters. I mean, how can
we make comments on something that we haven't even read yet?
MRS. LABOMBARD-I feel the same way Tim does.
MR. BREWER-I don't see a lot of sense in discussing it tonight
when we haven't read all the material that we have.
MR. MACEWAN-I guess
need to make comments
review process?
the question I would even have
at all if we're not going to
is why do we
do the SEORA
MR. BREWER-We're an involved agency.
MR. MACEWAN-But we're not doing the SEQRA.
MR. PALING-But you're still an involved agency, and we have made
a commitment to pass on any, because the ZBA also feels a little
bit clumsy in this situation, as we do, and we have consented,
through me if you will, that we will pass on our comments and act
as a consultant or an advisor.
MR. MACEWAN-I think this particular application is a classic
example as to why we shouldn't allow another Board to do a SEORA
review process when they don't do the in-depth review that this
Board does.
MR. PALING-Craig, I don't think that's
That's been decided, and we can discuss
meeting, but lets stick to the subject.
the subject
that in a
of this.
separate
MR. MACEWAN-The subject is, why should we even need to discuss
the potential for a SEORA process, or review, when we're not
going to do it? That's the crux of the thing right there.
what's there for us to discuss?
MR. STARK-I have a question, Bob. Why have any discussion
tonight until we get a chance to review all the application, and
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(Queensbury Plannin~ Board Meeting 11/21/95)
then we can do it next week. That's no problem next week.
MR. GORALSKI-One thing I might caution you. You tabled three
applications and asked them to come back next week. There's now
at least 10 applications on your agenda for next week. What you
may want to do is get through whatever information you have
tonight and then add to that information next week.
MR. RUEL-Also, if you do it next week, you won't really have any
time to pass the information on to the ZBA, will you?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-The following day.
MR. STARK-Well, Tim and Bob are going to that
next Wednesday, and they'll be able to pass
before that meeting starts.
meeting the 29th,
it on to the Z8A
MR. OBERMAYER-Anybody can go.
MR. PALING-Anybody can go.
MR. RUEL-Well, do you want to talk about any of this paper work
tonight?
MR. BREWER-I don't.
MR. PALING-Well, I think some of the Board feel that we should
have the, well, the conversation is going to take place. The
question is, should we do it partially tonight, and finish it
next week, or should we put it all off and do it all next week,
after having read these letters?
MR. RUEL-Is there anything that we can really do tonight, that
you know of?
MR. PALING-Well, that depends. You can't answer that question
until you go through the SEQRA and ask the questions and see what
the comments are.
MR. RUEL-Because this Project Information Part One, the part that
was prepared by the project sponsor, I had a question on that,
and on Page Three, Item 17.
MR. STARK-Bob, do you want to Just go over the SEQRA and we'll
try to answer some of it?
MR. PALING-Yes.
beginning. Jim,
Lets try going through the SEQRA from
if you would, would you just go through it?
the
MR. GORALSKI-I can.
MR. PALING-Do you want to do it?
MR. GORALSKI-If you'd like to.
MR. PALING-All right.
MR. OBERMAYER-I don't really know if that's our place to be going
over, I mean, I don't want to disagree with the Chairman on this,
but why are we going through the SEQRA? We're not the lead agent
in this.
MR. GORALSKI-Can I explain something to you? The Planning Board
is an involved agency in the SEQRA review process. Just because
you're not the lead agency does not mean you have no say in what
goes on in the SEQRA review. You have a right, as an involved
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
agency, to make comments to the lead agency regarding the SECRA
review. What we've tried to do here is give you an opportunity
to go through each individual question on the Part Two of the
EAF, so that you can give your input on each one of these issues.
You certainly don't have to give input if you don't want to, but
I think it would behoove you to give your input to the Zo,ning
Board of Appeals, and I think they would appreciate your input.
MR. MACEWAN-With every application that comes in front of this
Board, that requires a SECRA review, we get, before, we even get
to the SECRA, we get input from Staff. We get input from the
applicant. We get input from the public. Therefore, when we go
through our SECRA, we have all the information in front of us.
We've heard it. We've seen it. We've had an opportunity to read
it and review it. We've had engineering comments. We've also
had legal comments. You're asking us to go through a SECRA form
tonight, and we have not had an opportunity to for any of those
comments.
MR. PALING-I think you're missing the point. What you say,
Craig, is right if we were doing the SEQRA, and we'd have to have
a public hearing and all of that that's associated with it, but
we've been given a set of plans~ We've talked about this,many
times. We've all visited the Mooring Post many times, and I
think you can comment on part of the SECRA. You'll come to a
part you can't comment on without a public hearing. Skip it, and
go to the part that vJe can comm~3nt on, but I thi nk you guys a1-e
arguing against not doing the SECRA, but the fact that we're
doing it at all, and that's a dead issue.
MR. MACEWAN-That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying
is you can't give it a fair review to give an honest input to the
ZBA because we haven't had an opportunity to review the materials
or hear public input in order for us to give an answer to a reply
to them on what we think may be a sticking point or may be a
problem.
MR. PALING-You're not
what we're doing here.
going to have a public hearing, not
That's the way it's set up.
for
MR. MACEWAN-I'm talking engineering. I'm talking legal. I'm
talking Staff comments, which is all a part of the infoTmation we
take in when we do a SEORA review.
MR. BREWER-The big comment or question to us is, do we have any
comments pertaining to the SEQRA that we can give or pass on to
the ZBA that might help them evaluate the SEORA? It's as simple
as that.
MR. STARK--Just read it. If we've got something we can't answer,
we can't answer it.
MR. BREWER-Your point is well taken, Craig. I don't know how we
can thoroughly do that, as a Board, when we haven't read all the
stuff, in !II.}:: opinion, the stuff we got tonight pertains to the
SEORA because it's public comment to that project. I'd have no
comments until I read that stuff right there. You guys may.
That's fine. I don't have any problem with that, but I have no
comment until I read everything I've got.
MR. STARK-That's a valid point.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It is.
MR. STARK-And until we all read through everything, maybe we.can
put it off, and I know there's 10 or 11, we'll be here until 12
o'clock next week, fine. We're here until 12 then.
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MR. PALING-Well, I didn't know about the letters until yesterday
morning, and if that's the general feeling of the Board, I can go
along with that, that we'll have this exact same set of
circumstances, except we will have had an opportunity to read and
look at the letters again, look at the site and what not.
MR. BREWER-Once we
that's in front of
position.
have a chance to read all
us, then we can comment on
the information
it. That's !!!y
MR. OBERMAYER-The only reason we're going through the SEQRA steps
is just to offer comments.
MR. GORALSKI-Let me just go back and explain to you one more
time. We made the suggestion that you go through the EAF and
answer the questions as if you were doing the review because we
thought that was the most efficient way for you to have input to
the ZBA. If you have a different way to do it, if you guys just
want to sit here and list a bunch of concerns, you can certainly
do it that way.
MR. PALING-Yes. I think that the SEQRA form is the best way to
go, to start with, and then if there's comments beyond that, we
should address them, too, but I think the SEQRA form is the best
discipline to get us going.
MR. OBERMAYER-Let me just say this. This is the first time that
we've ever done this this way. Okay.
MR. STARK-And the ZBA's never given us comments, too, because
nothing's been as sensitive as this.
MR. OBERMAYER-We've made general comments before on projects, but
we've never gone through, line by line, of a SEQRA, okay, to make
comments.
MR. PALING-However, it's not unprecedented, but it is allowed.
MR. BREWER-Why don't we just have a special workshop Monday night
or something and just go through it and do it. Then we'd have
the stuff prepared.
MR. OBERMAYER-I think we could do it Tuesday night.
MR. BREWER-It doesn't make any difference to me.
MR. GORALSKI-If you want to do it Tuesday, fine.
MR. PALING-The advertising might get in the way of that.
MR. BREWER-We could do that in just a day, a press release, Bob.
You can press release that in two days.
MR. PALING-We're going to have an awful busy night a week from
tonight.
MR. GORALSKI-We'll just stay here until it's done.
MR. BREWER-! don't think it's
mean, I don't think we've got
we just read the stuff and go
done.
going to be that big of a deal. I
that many comments, but I think if
through it next Tuesday, it'll be
MR. STARK-I agree.
MR. OBERMAYER-I agree, too.
MR. RUEL-I'm thoroughly confused with the whole thing.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
MRS. LABOMBARD-I think that Craig's point is well
feel that I'd like to take a look at that stuff.
going to be long next week.
taken, and I
I know it's
MR. RUEL-What is all this information we're looking at anyway?
MR. PALING-Letters.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The thing is, if we're going to give, if we would
like to give good recommendations or a little bit of input, I
think to make it have any substance, we ought to read what's in
there, first. I mean, I just talked to Fred, and Fred's read it
all. He's here tonight, but he's read it all, Mr. Carvin. He's
the Chairman of the ZBA.
MR. GORALSKI-I can answer both of your questions and clarify what
Cathy's saying. Your question, Roger, is does anyone know what's
in there? What we did was today I finished a list of comments
based on the EAF. That's in there. The other thing that's in
there is every letter we've received regarding this project, We
didn't get that to you before hand because we were still
receiving letters. As of today, we were still receiving letters.
The ZBA received their letters today. So they didn't receive it
any earlier than you did. We just gave it to you tonight because
you were having a meeting. They received it this afternoon
probably around 4:30. So, all the information that was gathered
is the most up to date information. If you want to take a week
to review it, that's certainly fine.
MR. PALING-I think the Board consensus seems to be that it would
be better if we take a week to review it. So lets, we'll do it,
and are there any other questions that we can settle? I'm going
to suggest that we use the SEORA form to initiate it, for our
first discussion, and then ask for any other comments or input on
it, and then let it be, and use the minutes of the meeting or
letter or whatever to transmit our feelings to the ZBA.
MR. OBERMAYER-If that's the way you want to do it, Mr. Chairman,
that's fine with me.
MRS. LABOMBARD-If you think next week will go really late, until
midnight, do you think we could move the time to start the
meeting up?
MR. OBERMAYER-I don't think this is going to take that long.
MR. GORALSKI-You can't. It's already advertised.
MR. RUEL-I have some questions on the material prepared by the
project sponsor. Is that appropo here?
MR. PALING-Sure, go ahead.
MR. RUEL-AII right. On Page Three, it indicates, is
served by existing public utilities, and it says, no.
know where the public utilities come from.
the site
I want to
MR. GORALSKI-Well, see, what I would recommend, okay, I can
answer that question for you, and all things like that that are
on the form are things you should point out to the Zoning Board
of Appeals as the lead agent. Do you understand what I'm saying?
MR. BREWER-Say, gee, guys, find this out.
MR. GORALSKI-You should say to the Zoning Board of Appeals, I
don't feel the answer to this question is accurate, and I want
you to ask the applicant why not. I can tell you that the answer
to the question should be that there is public utilities serving
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
the site, that public utilities being electric, but there's on
site gewage disposal, and the water is taken from the lake.
MR. RUEL-And other things like, is the project an expansion, and
it says not applicable, but actually it's expanding up, isn't it?
MR. GORALSKI-That's right. There's a court case that says that
this is an expansion of a nonconforming use. Right.
MR. RUEL-Footprint, maybe not, but it's an expansion.
MR. GORALSKI-That's right.
MR. RUEL-Okay. So that's another one.
MR. GORALSKI-That's another thing that should be pointed out to
the Zoning Board.
MR. PALING-This is what we were going to do tonight, but I think
we better not get into it, because we've decided to do it next
week.
MR. MACEWAN-Just everything that's within this packet will answer
any and all questions we have regarding engineering, public
comment?
MR. GORALSKI-I'm not saying it will answer it.
MR. MACEWAN-I mean, is this plan that's in this packet the plan
he plans on proceeding, should he get to the Planning Board?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. That's the plan that's been submitted for the
site plan review for the variances, along with all the letters,
and now you have my comments regarding the EAF.
MR. BREWER-It's a memoir of the Mooring Post.
MR. RUEL-So you don't want to discuss this. Is that it?
MR. PALING-Not if we're going to do the whole thing, I think the
Board has asked for an opportunity to read the letters and to get
the comments, and then do what you're doing right now. All
right. Now what do we have to do with this as an agenda item.
MR. GORALSKI-Nothing. You can just consider it as any additional
information.
MR. PALING-All right. It'll be re-opened under the same
conditions of communication between the Board and Staff only,
next week, as the last item on the agenda. Okay. I've got three
other miscellaneous items. In December, our normal meeting is
the day after Christmas. We can, if you wish, change that.
There is time to change that to Dece~ber 28th, if the Board would
like.
MR. OBERMAYER-I think that's all right.
MR. MACEWAN-That sounds appropriate.
MR. PALING-Okay.
will be Saturday,
visi ts.
All right.
and we'll
Then the meetings
tell you, Saturday
during December
the 16th, site
MR. BREWER-Why don't we do that next week, Bob, after the last
meeting, set site visits.
MR. PALING-I'm just telling you, tentatively, right now, and then
the meetings will be the 19th and the 28th, rather than the 26th.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/9~)'
All right. The letter that we all signed in regard to materials
in curbing, that's gone through, and I expect that we'll here
something from that within a few weeks. lets say as written.
MR. RUEL-Where did you send it, the Town Board?
MR. PALING-Yes, well, Fred Champagne, and it's back
Martin's hands, and I think we'll see something before
Board, like in January.
in Jim
the Town
MR. RUEL-Would they have to modify an existing Ordinance, Code?
MR. PALING-Sure.
MR. MACEWAN-Did you send that to the Town Board?
MR. PALING-Well, no. It's the letter about curbing material and
drive aisle space, and in a meeting we had yesterday morning, Jim
says he's picking it up and he'll have something, as I
understand, for the Town Board to look at in January.
MR. RUEL-As a Planning Board representative on the Master Plan,
CLUP, they will be discussing new modifications.
MR. PALING-I hope you'll bring that letter to them.
MR. RUEL-Yes. That should be included.
MR. PALING-Bring it to them. It's been signed by everybody on
this Board. Okay. Does everyone know about the renovation to
Aviation Road, from Burke to West Mountain? Are you aware of
that? John, do you want to comment on the renovation of Aviation
Road from Burke to West Mountain? It's upon us.
MR. GORALSKI-From Burke to West Mountain. There was an RFP. I
believe it was sent out, requesting design firms who were
interested to submit proposals. The state, as you know, is going
to be widening the bridge over the Northway, and that widening
will go UP to the school property. The Town, now, is getting
proposals for feasibility studies for doing improvements to
Aviation Road from Burke Drive, or the school property, all the
way up to West Mountain Road. That's about all I can tell you.
It's a feasibility study to do things like widening the road,
providing the bike trails that you read about in the paper,
possibly re-aligning the intersection with Dixon Road, all those
things would be included.
MR. MACEWAN-Will that
meeting in December?
Northway?
be
Will
a topic of discussion at that DOT
they be talking about that plus the
MR. GORALSKI-The DOT meeting in December is specifically related
to the bridge, but this is being done in conjunction with that.
The Town feels that this is a good op~ortunity to look into
improvements to Aviation Road, given the significant amount of
residential development that's taking place on Aviation Road.
MR. MACEWAN-That meeting is still on for, what is it, the fifth
of December?
MR. GORALSKI-The DOT meeting? Yes. Absolutely.
MR. PALING-Okay. The only other item I have is in regard to the
election of officers for 1996. It appears that the only way that
we can get a full Board here is to have the election in December.
We've asked Mark Schachner to look it up to see if we could do it
if we want to. He'll come back with an answer for us, and then
it's up to the Board to decide when we have the election, if we
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/21/95)
can change it.
MR. BREWER~I think it says in our rules and regulations, or
whatever, we do it the first organizational meeting in January.
MR. PALING-Yes, but remember, it says that, but don't forget last
year we didn't do it in January, regardless of what it says. It
was Fèbruary.
MR. BREWER-We started in January.
MR. PALING-Yes. Well, personally, I think it should be changed.
I don't think it should be in January anyway. Everything starts
on January 1. All of our offices start, I mean, as members,
start the first of the year. Why should it start in a weird time
in February? Why shouldn't it be in the calendar year.
MR. RUEL-It should be.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. It should be started off right, the first of
January.
MR. PALING-Any other comments?
MR. MACEWAN-The only other comment that I have is, man, I didn't
get any Staff notes, other than two projects, tonight. Could you
please tell me why?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Because we are down one Staff person, and I am
doing the best I can to keep up with it, but I'm not.
MR. MACEWAN-I do know a service in Town you could call and
probably get a temp.
MR. GORALSKI-A temporary Planner?
MR. MACEWAN-Sure.
MR. PALING-John, what's the status of a new person coming aboard?
MR. GORALSKI-The Town Board interviewed one person today. They
will be interviewing another person tomorrow, and then the other
person is coming in from, I believe, Kansas, and won't be here
until the first or second week in December.
MR. BREWER-I've got one other item that I'd like to mention.
Signs that depict where our site visits are, people are not using
them. I don't know if you're still giving them out.
MR. MACEWAN-I haven't seen one of those signs in I'll bet you
four months.
MR. BREWER-Exactly. That's my point. Why don't people use them?
If people don't use them, we ought to just tell them, hey, you
can't put the sign up, we don't want to hear your application.
MR. MACEWAN-I had a tough time finding one of them there for next
week, up on Assembly Point, the guy that wants to replace the old
dock.
MR. OBERMAYER-I agree. I mean, it was tough to find places.
MR. PALING-Especially in Lake George.
MR. BREWER-Why don't we make some kind of a letter saying, gee,
help us out a little bit, put them up. Can we do that?
MR. GORALSKI-There's instructions that go out to the applicant
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telling them to post the sign.
MR. MACEWAN-You very simply put in there, if your property cannot
be located, it may delay your review process. It's as simple as
that.
MR. GORALSKI-Sure.
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-Are we going to talk about the election at all?
MR. PALING-Next week.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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