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1995-12-19 ',~ QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING FIRST REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 19' ~ '19'95' INDEX :1 . ,,' Subdivision No. 14-1995 Gary Higley 2. FINAL STAGE Tax Map No. 105-1-38 Site Plan No. 68-95 Nicholas Cutro, Jr. 4. Tax Map No. 22-1-4.'1 Site Plan No. 71-95 Edward Pacyna 17. Tax Map No. 131-5-25 Site Plan No. 72-95 James M. Weller '21. Tax Map No. 48-1-26 Site Plan No. 73-95 Jack Whitney 47. Tax Map No. 131-1-11 ,/'.. ; Site Plan No. 74-95 Glens Falls ~enn~l Club, 49. Tax ~ap No.' 126-1~60, 61, 6~; Site Plan Leemilt's Petroleum I , '53. No. 75-95 Corp. Tax Map No. 91-1-1 , ,I THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STAtE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. ; i ,'¡ ¡, I I ~. I ¡ ! :"i .( "it'L: ',-" --./ -f ~ (Queensbury P Ianni ng B''?,éard M~~t..,i ng 12/1.9/95) QUEENSBURY PLANNING¡aOA~Ô; ME'E·hNG:, FIRST REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 19, 1995 7:00 P.M. MEMBERS PRESENT ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY JAMES OBERMAYER GEORGE STARK TIMOTHY BREWER MEMBERS ABSENT CRAIG MACEWAN GEORGE STARK CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER-JOHN GORALSKI PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI CORRECTION OF MINUTES October 17, 1995: NONE October 24, 1995: NONE October 30, 1995: NONE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUT~S FROM OCTO~ER 17TH. 24TH. AND 30TH, Introduced by James Obermayer who moved f01" its adoption, seconded by George Stark: Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. STARK-Bob, I'd like to make a comment to John, concerning the little packets for the site visits, I guess Pam was responsible? MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. STARK-Tremendous help. Super idea. us Saturday. They were a big help to MR. GORALSKI-She'll appreciate that. MR. PALING-Yes. I'd like to second that. It's a great help, not only when you're on the site visits, but when you're home reviewing them. You know exactly where you're talking about, and the wetlands and details like that. Great. This is addressed to the Board, that we can no longer make a motion "as written" with the term "as written" unless there is a written resolution, and there will be fewer written resolutions from here on in. There just won't be that many. So we've got to be careful in making a motion that we don't use the term "as written" unless there is a resolution covering the motion. MR. OBERMAYER-Why is that? resolutions? Why aren't we going to have more - 1 - '---~ '-- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/~5) MR. PALING-John, can you answer that part of it? MR. GORALSKI-To be honest with you"I never knew that you ever had written resolutions, since I've been covering the meetings. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. SCHACHNER-For what it's worth, I don't think you've done that in the past. MR. PALING-I can't tell you a specific instance, but we were told we did it at least once. MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. MR. PALING-Yes, here it is here. Site Plan 62-95, Schonewols, by Roger Ruel, as written, and they said there was no matching resolution. So, anyway, we'll never do it again. All right. I guess we can proceed. We have a quorum, so we're going to go ahead. We've waited long enough. MR. OBERMAYER-Now, what happens if, well, three votes will do it? MR. PALING-No, four votes. MRS. LABOMBARD-We have to have everybody. MR. PALING-It's got to be unanimous. MR. OBERMAYER-So all of us have to be in agreement tonight. MR. SCHACHNER-For any official action to be taken, that's con"ect. MR. PALING-Okay. qt...!;> BU,SINESS: SUBDIVISION NO. 14-1995 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED GARY HIGLEY OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: CORNER OF QUAKER AND GLENWOOD (FORMER SAWHORSE/NO. HOMES COMPLEX) PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE A 2.91 ACRE PARCEL INTO 2 COMMERCIAL LOTS OF 1.65 ACRE$ AND 1.26 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 105-1-38 LOT SIZE: 2.91 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS GARY HIGLEY, PRESENT MR. PALING-John, do you want to give us your comments? STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, subdivision No. 14-1995, Gary Higley, Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant has added the signage at the Quaker Road access drive as was requested at preliminary stage. It is important to mention again that the easterly lot will require a site plan review and the 50' buffer along the south property line as well as the issue of shared parking will limit the uses that will be appropriate for this lot. If there are no othe," issues raised by the Board I would recommend approval of this application." MR. PALING-Okay. Would you identify yourself, please. MR. HIGLEY-Yes. I'm Gary Higley. MR. PALING-Thank you. Any questions at the moment by anyone on the Board? it _t..I' - 2 - -- --/ '-- '-' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. STARK-Yes. Does that 50 foot buffer represent a hardship to you, along the south boundary? I mean, you know, from where Seeley's line is to where your, a lot of people park over there now. If you were to cut 50 foot from the line coming in, that would inhibit the parking quite a bit. MR. HIGLEY-It will. I think it's too early to say. MR. GORALSKI-The lot along, that fronts along Glenwood, that parking in that drive aisle is grandfathered. So he can maintain that. It's only on the easterly lot that hasn't been developed that he would have to maintain that 50 foot buffer at this point. MR. STARK-Yes, but Seeley's property doesn't go back that far, though. MR. GORALSKI-No, it doesn't. MR. HIGLEY-Seeley's property, to the end of Seeley's property right now is all grandfathered. MR. GORALSKI-Right. MR. STARK-Fine. So you're going to leave the parking right there the way it is now? MR. HIGLEY-And we have talked together, and there's no problem between the two property lines, that either one of us can see. MR. STARK-No problem? Okay. MR. OBERMAYER-Does it run the whole distance of the south line? MR. line, GORALSKI-Yes. The zone line runs along the south property the Seeley property, and then the Beeman propefty, then it comes back down and also runs along that whole southern boundary is where foot buffer has to be maintained, açtually;,on both si·des. ! ¡ ¡ . .! ~ - i t.· ! I' " : '. .j ~ ; . i. MR:"'STARk-Okäy. "Ii .... !.~ ~. Ü-Jt the Whitney property. So the zone linéånd:thé 50 by both property 9wners, ; i - ~ MR. PALrNG-HOw màny' parkin~ spaCes are you ,saYin,g t-~at thete will be? MR. HIGLEY-We had proposed 52 parking spots for our property right now. MR. PALING-Okay. .¡ i, I MR. HIGLEY-As we are speaking. MR. PALING-Okay. It references, okay, this is the 52 of 78 required on Sheet 2 of 2. I've never seen Sheet 2 of 2. MR. GORALSKI-That was during Preliminary. At Preliminary Stage, you got that sheet. MR. PALING-We did have that? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. PALING-Okay. That's all the questions L have, if there's no one else? And there is no public hearing. MR. OBERMAYER-I'll entertain a motion. ~OTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 14-1995 GARY - 3 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) HIGLEY, Introduced by James Obermayer who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: To subdivide a 2.91 acre acres and 1.26 acres, as that a site plan review activated. parcel into two commercial lots of 1.65 shown on the map dat~d 23 October 1995, will be required when Lot Number ,2 is Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel SITE PLAN NO. 68-95 TYPE: UNLISTED NICHOLAS CUTRO, JR. OWNER: FLORENCE MURPHY ZONE: LC-4~ A, CEA LOCATION: RT. 9L, 2 1/2 MILES NORTH OF INTERSECTION OF RT. 149 ON LEFT. APPLICANT PROPOSES COMMERCIAL BOAT STORAGE. PER SECTION 179-13, THIS IS A PERMITTED USE' SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 11/8/95 APA TAX MAP NO. 22-1-4.1 LOT SIZE: 14.67 ACRES SECTION: 179-13 NICHOLAS CUTRO, JR., PRESENT MRS. LABOMBARD-And there was a public hearing on November 28th, and it is still open this evening. MR. PALING-We tabled this at that time. introduce yourself, please. Okay. Would you MR. CUTRO-Hi. I'm Nicky Cutro. MR. PALING-Thank you. John, could we have your comments? STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 68-95, Nicholas Cutro, Jr., Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant has submitted a plan that indicates the area where boats will be stored outside of the existing building. A note on the new plan indicates that there will be 18-28 boats stored outdoors. Although the boats will be stored 50' from the south property line there was some concern about the impact of this outdoor storage on the neighboring residential property. It would· be advisable to require approximately 10-15 8' evergreens be planted along the edge of the boat storage area to create a visual screen. The other issue raised at the previous meeting was the location of the Dunham's Bay Wetland. The attached map indicates that the wetland is not on this property. Furthermore, since no construction is takipg place as a result of this proposal, this is not a regulated activity." MR. OBERMAYER-So why is he even here then? MR. GORALSKI-He's here for a site plan review, but there is no wetlands permit required. MR. OBERMAYER-I see. MR. PALING-The APA, that's not involved. They're out. MR. OBERMAYER-Whe,e do you plan on storing the boats? MR. CUTRO-There's a shaded area. - 4 - '-' ---- "---' -.J (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. OBERMAYER-That's it right there. Okay. MR. PALING-Because that was one of the questions we asked at the last meeting, and that'~ been clarified. MR. BREWER-This looks backward, doesn't it? Isn't this barri over here, or did I remember it wrong? MR. PALING-This is the pole barn, the barn, and then the storage is to the left. MR. BREWER-Right. MR. PALING-So with this, it's would be. This is 9L out here. right in here, that the storage So we're looking in this way. Mi~' OBERMAYE~-Do you, p~an on put:.t~ng a road in to t,he ba,?k there? .\,." ¡ MR. CUTRO"'There\'s~l tEbady' ~ 1" ight,~of-w~y" C?~ the:øfop~r~y"~ ' ! -. I. . ; .~, . ¡ . MR. 'ÒBERMAYER-Wel 1 ,1 t s'tarts 'á'Ö'ÇI i t;:$t:.Oþs ri~'PI¡t: henL ~Õt to ~)(téttdthe:' roád all the waY bac'l(' in ~ " I ~ :'.' "\: ".,', .', " '> H ',il.,-; You've " ':¡ MR. CUTRO-It's still there. It ha's to gÖ in, the'Òr'iglnalone that was there, I mean, it may be just not drawing it in all the way. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. MR. PALING-And how about the plantiDgs that John Goralski is asking for? MR. CUTRO-It's taken into advisement. with that. I don't have a problem MR. PALING-So you wouldn't mind if it's part of the motion then? MR. CUTRO-No. MR. PALING-Okay. Good. MR. CUTRO-I'm hete to work with the nei~hbors. along with. I'm easy to get MR. BREWER-Is there any consideration to moving them over further to the right more? MR. CUTRO-Honestly, John can probably tell you, I'm nö architect. The area is probably twice as large~ It's just probably exaggerated. All I know is one inch equals fifty feet. I took it from the property line. This shaded area, you could probably put 100 boats in, honestly. It's probably going to end up just behind the, the furthest barn away from 9L. MR. OBERMAYER-It is a big area that you're showing. It's huge. MR. CUTRO-Yes. I'm not a, I kind of got carried away when I did the picture. MR. BREWER-Yes, because that'll be 18 to 28 big boats in there. MR. OBERMAYER-Unless you're going to put the Minni Ha Ha there or something. MR. CUTRO-And again, I was telling generated from inside storage really, many boats outside at all. you, the revenue that's I don't anticipate that .- 5 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. OBERMAYER-How many are you planning on doing inside? MR. CUTRO-That's a tough question. That depends on how, what sizes, you know, you could get 30 footers that have got to go in there, or you could get a bunch of jet skis. I mean, that's a wide open question. MR. OBERMAYER-How many 30 footers? MR. CUTRO~I don't have any. MR. OBERMAYER-How many jet skis? MR. CUTRO-Maybe 10 of those, or something like that, but they're small. MR. BREWER-Does this number 18 to 28 i~clude the inside, or is that strictly qutside? MR. CUTRO-That's outside. MR. BREWER-So maximum would be 28 outside. MR. PALING-And how many inside? MR. CUTRO-Well, I can't tell you. I mean, if they were all 20 footers, the square footage, you can figure it out. MR. PALING-If they were all 20 footers, how many would there be? MR. CUTRO-Maybe, depending on, 30 footers, I mean, you're only going to put so many inside a building. MR. PALING-No. Lets say they were 20 footers, how many boats could you store? MR. STARK-Probably about 10. MR. CUTRO-I'd have to figure out the square footage. MR. STARK-Bob, it depends on the beam of the boat, too. MR. CUTRO-Right. MR. PALING-I'm trying to figure out if we're talking 10 or 100. That's all I'm trying to figure out. MR. STARK-Bob, to give you an back of the motel? He's had little as 35. idea, you know the boat storage in as many as 53 in there, and as MR. PALING-Just a rough number. MR. OBERMAYER-Be careful, now, what you say. MR. CUTRO-I mean, what if they're all jet skis? MR. BREWER-I think the number inside is irrelevant. MRS. OBERMAYE~-Me, too. MRS. LABOMBARD-So, do I. MR. PALING-Irrelevant only, it is releva~t to' {he e~t¿nt of traffic and things like that. If, all of a sudden, you're going to have 100 customers, it's one thing. If you're going to have 10 customers. - 6 - --- '-' '-- ,_./ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95 ) MRS. LABOMBARD-These aren~t quick launch. MR. STARK-He doesn't have quick launch. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. STARK-He brings them in in the fall and takes them out in the spring. All winter they sit there. MR. OBERMAYER-You don't mind if we say, then, that there'll be no quick launch? MR. CUTRO-That was already brought up at the first meeting. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. Look at the size of the place. I mean, he's not going to be able to fit 100 boats, Bob. MR. PALING-I'm just trying to get a general number. All right. If it isn't worth it, we won't do it. MR. STARK-I have a question. MR. PALING-Yes. MR. STARK-The boats on Route 9, up by the tee pee, are they your boats now? MR. CUTRO-No. I saw them the other day. MR. STARK-You don't know who's they are? MR. CUTRO-No. MR. STARK-Okay. MR. CUTRO-Just toward Lake George. MR. STARK-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-I'll find out. MR. BREWER-That's in Lake George. MR. GORALSKI-If it's south of the actual Queensbury. TeePe~, it's in MR. STARK-That'~ Queensbury where those boats are. MR. CUTRO-There's a whole bunch of them. MR. STARK-There's 10 of them. MR. CUTRO-I think they're like shrink wrapped, too. MR. STARK-Yes, they are. MR. OBERMAYER-I wonder who would store them there. MR. PALING-Okay. If there are no more comments, I think we should go to the public hearing. So we'll open the public hearing on this matter. Does anyone care to speak about this? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MAC COFFIN MR. COFFIN-My name is Mac Coffin. property, to the south I guess. I live just adjacent to the I've got a few concerns with - 7 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) this. LC-42, I believe, was meant to lower the use, not create new uses to a pr~perty. That's at le~it what I've been told by the Board every time I wanted to do something on my own house. Upper Ridge Road's a residential and a farming area. It's not a co~mercial area. Most of the residents up there I think like it that way.' Thisjll definitely change the character of the neighborhood, having a bunch of blue tarps outside the buildings. I don't believe any of us have any problem with the inside storage. It's t,R¡e outside stÒrage that's the major concern. John mentioned a buffer zone. Ten or fifteen tree$, I don't believe, is going to really do much to buffer both my' border and the 9L border. That'i going to create a visual impact to the people traveling the road, as well as the neighbors. The big problem that a lot of us have, too, is that the applicant isn't going to live there. So any problems that would be created, he doesn't have to live with. We will,' in our every day lives. What happened with the Warren County Planning Board? The last time they turned it down. MR. PALING-We have no input from the Warren County Planning Board. MR. GORALSKI-No. This was, this is Old Business. They didn't turn him down. They approved with the conditions that no more buildings be added to this lot, and that the ~torage is strictly limited to insid~ of the building. So yo~would need five votes by this Board if there's going to be outdoor storage. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. COFFIN-I appreciate the Board's time, and you really should consider, being a site consider what it's going to do to the neighborhood on Upper Ridge Road. Thank you. I just think that plan, you should character of the MR. PALING-Thank you. MR. OBERMAYER-Did you say we need five votes? MR. GORALSKI-Five votes. MR. SCHACHNER-Because of the Warren County Planning Board recommendation, no outdoor storage, and that's what's proposed. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. KAREN SOMMER MS. SOMMER-My name is Karen Sommer. I live directly across the )"oad from Mrs. Murphy's property, the prop'erty in discussion. I've known Nicky Cutro for a long, time. I'd like to read a letter, if you don't mind. "Dear Pl~nning Board ~embers: As the property owner directly across the road from Mrs. Murphy's property, I have a sincere and ongoing interest in the usi and development of that property. I am quite familiar with both the land and the buildings. The land itself has always ~ad large aTeas of wetness. Since several beaver families have ~igrated to our area of Ridge Road, they have caus~dany number of additional problems, including a higher water table and flooding on the Coffin property. This higher water table has effected the Murphy property with more wet areas than usual, even after a dry summer. Much of the runoff from the property goes into the Dunhams Bay swamp area or into the Coffin property. Any continuous use of the land could several aggravate the problem. It is also important to note that the zoning changes in 1988 increased, rather than decreased, the allowable us¿s of all the properties in this area when they were re-zoned LC. It's my opinion that these changes pose potential danger for this area of Queensbury, - 8 - '- "-'" ~ ----,,' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) which is in the Adirondack Park, and the oþen space which we have committed to preserve. I refer to the Town of Queensbury zoning req0irements for your approval, as a Planning Board, which are listed in synopsis. We have to deal with the road problem, the additional traffic, ingress and egress, t~e potential òhange of character to our neighborhood, the scenic effect, natural effect and aésthetic affect. Without serious restrictions on the use of this property, when considering other than residential uses, the future control of growth and use as a commercial establishment could be difficult. Since commercial boat storage is an allowable use as curr~ntly zoned, the decisions of this Board are crucial to preventing undue adverse impacts both on the land and the neighborhood in general. In closing, my request is in order to preserve the 'natural, scenic, aesthetic, and open sp~ce' of the area, as well as the quality of life as we know it now, that this Board restricts use of the property to indoor boat storage in the existing buildings only." Thank you. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. BILL CASEY MR. CASEY-My name's Bill Casey. I'm the President of the Dunham's Bay Fish and Game Club. ¡ personally have a, I am opposed to the intended use, as far as the outside storage goes. The aesthetics, the view from Ridge Road on that piece of property looking up toward the top of the world is really beautiful, and I have no doubts that it's going to be dotted all over the place with blue tarps during the winter time whióh is covering the boats. Also, I requested this Board, at the last meeting, to have the property reviewed as a wetland, inspected as a wetland. I spoke to the APA today, and the gentleman said, as of what he knows, and he's one of the inspectors, he has not been asked to conduct an inspection on this property. He said, therefore, if someone makes a recommendation to the Board, and the Board accepts that recommendation, it has to be looked at by the APA before any decision can be made on that piece of property. MR. PALING-Okay, at this point, just ask John to comment on that, read tonight. if I might interrupt, and I'd because it's in the report he MR. CASEY-Okay. MR. GORALSKI-As you can see from the attached map that was taken off the Geographic Information System that the Town has, that is the mapped Dunhams Bay Wetland, and this property is not included in the map Dunhams Bay Wetland. MR. CASEY-Well, I questioned the gentleman about this. He said that the maps were made up in the e~rlY 80's, and that anybody that makes a request at any time of a review of a piece of property, because things can change over the years. MR. GORALSKI-You're absolutely right. not a regulated ~ctivity. There's There's no filling going on. The point being, this is no construction going on. MR. CASEY-The change of the property in use, though. MR. GORALSKI-The change of use in the property is not a regulated activity. MR. SCHACHNER-Under the Wetlands Permit. MR. GORALSK:I-Right. - 9 - ---- -' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. SCHACHNER-I'm just making sure that's understood. MR. GORALSKI-Right. He Deeds a site plan review because he's changing the use of the property. He does not need a wetlands permit beca~se he's storing boats on,the property. MR. CASEY-Well, my interpretation was ~ha~ if somebody requested it to the Board, and the Board agreed to it, like was done at the last meeting. MR. GORALSKI-Even if it were wetlands, he doesn't need a permit to store boats on the property. MR. SCHACHNE.R-Because of the type of activity that we're talking about, under the Queensbury Code. MR. CASEY-W~ll, the Oue~nsbury Code really is different than the State Codes under the Wetlands Act. MR. SCHACHNER-That's true,and this Board's responsibility is to enforce the Queensbury Codes. MR. CASEY-It's a New York State Freshwater Wetlands Act, preservation and protection of wetlands balanced economical and social development needs. is the against MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. You're reading, if I'm not mistaken, from a part of the New .York State Department of Environmental Conservation Wetlands Regulations, and that's not what governs this Board's review of wetlands. That's what governs the Department of Environmental Conservation, or DEC's, review of wetlands. They are different. You are absolutely COTrect. MR. PALING-And ¡ think what the Board asked for, at least that's my recollection, is what John provided to us in regard to the wetlands. MR. CASEY-That was provided looked at the map and saw requested an update. at the last meeting. Everybody that it wasn't, and that's why I MR. PALING-Okay. I didn't understand it that way. involve the APA, nor did we intend to. We did not MR. OBERMAYER-Right. My understanding was that we had this other map over here which really didn't identify the location of the wetlands on the map that was provided to us originally, and so what we did is went and John had this identified where the wetlands were. That's what was believed to, that's what I thought ,anyway, too. MR.' PALING-Yes, that's my recollectioo.' MR. ~REWE~~~greed to find out if the wetlands was on the property 6r6ff t.he property or where it was. Regardless of that, even if the wetlands were pn the property, we could still issue a permit, provided he was outside the 100 foot line. Is that what we're saying? MR. GORALS~I-Actually, based on issue a permit to store boats activity. the Town's, there. It's yoU don't need to not a regulated MR. BREWER-Right. I'm just saying if there were. MR. SCHACHNER-No. Even if there we'"e we~l~,nds, ,there's no i.ssue about whether he's within the 100 foot buffer or ndt, because under the To~n's Zoning Ordinance, or I'm sorry, Wetlands Law, - 10 -- '-' ',-- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) there are only certain activities in wetlands that requiré a wetlands permit, and the storage of boats is not among them, and the reason, generally speaking, that the storage of boats is not among them, is because the mere storage of boats does not involve any of the activities that are typically viewed as threatenin.g or detrimental to wetlands, namely dredging, digging, filling~ and things like that. MR. PALING-Okay. I thought I could interrupt you at that point, just to get comment on that, but go ahead, please. MR. CASEY-Okay, and also, as I said, just the aesthetics alone of the property would be destroyed, and as othel" people said, it is the majority homeowners land, not business development lands, even though it's covered in that, and there are people interested in buying that piece of property to develop as a home, myself as one. I would really hate to see this piece of property turned into a commercial site, and boat storage out in the open, along Route 9, that people driving up and down could see, and that's basically it. I had another question, also. I don't'know if the Board is finished with Mr. Cutro. MR. PALING-No, he'll be back. MR. CASEY-Because I would like to address what is the intention? Boat storage doesn't cover everything. I mean, what is he going to do there with these' boats, besides just coveiing them? Is th~re going to be fu~ltaken out of thèm? I~ there going to be sewage taken out of them? If so, where is that going to be stored, also? MR. PALING-Okay. That was asked last time. We can ask it again. MR. CASEY-And also, are they going to be washed, and if so, what type of wash is going to be used? Is it going to be an acid wash? Will this go into the soil? These are the questions I'd Ii ke as ked. MR. PALING-That's a good question, and we'll ask Mr~ Cutro again about that. MR. CASEY-Okay, thank you. MR. PA~ING-Thank you. MR. PALING-Anyone else care to comment? MR. COFFIN-I have one further thing. I think when we got into this wetlands, we might have gotten away from what the real point is. This is Mac Coffin. I'm looking at your zoning Chapter 179, 179-38, Section D. "The project would not have an undue adverse impact upon the actual scenic, aesthetic, ecological, wildlife, historic, recreation, or open space resources of the Town or the Adirondack Park, or upon the ability of the public to provide supporting facilities and services made necessary". I think that is the important part that this Board should consider, and not get ~ide tracked with whether there's wetlands or not. I think the important part was the aesthetics and the natural and scenic beauty, not whether there was wetlands. It does border wetlands, official wetlands, the State bought, but I guess it is an open question as to whether it is wetlands. MR. PALING-Thank you. Anyone else care to comment? pkay. Then we'll close the pùblic hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-Mr. Cutro, perhaps you'd like to address that last - 11 - ~' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) question that was asked by Mr. Casey. MR. STARK-The acid wash and storage. MR. CUTRO-Yes. We kind of covered that. I applied pretty much, boat storage facility is what I'm trying to accomplish here. I already hav~ a business in another location that's two and a half miles away. It does all of these ~ctivities, and as a matter of fact, I know what it's like to go through the APA. So that's why I have that location. This is just primarily used as boat storaªe, ~hich is what I want. to do. MR. PALING-So there'll be no washing, changing of oil, fueling, anything like that? MR. CUTRO-No, not even repairs. I already hAve a facility that does that. MR. BREWER-How much l~nd do you have at the 6ther place, Nick? MR. CUTRO-Four acres. ~R., BREWER-Why wouldn~t you store the boats there, just out of curiosity? MR. CUTRO-I do. I store them outside, and I also have buildings I store boats inside. I just need. more inside storage. I mean, the reason why I'm'r'eally asking for the outside storage is we're all human and we make mistakes, and I book so many spaces inside. I make mistakes and I can't get them, I have to put them outside, and I technically real'ly, I don't want to commit to with my customers and be doing, spmething wrong in their eyes, that they're saying, hey, (þaid for inside "storage, and I couldn't get the boat inside. MR. BREWER-I guess what my question is, if you had 28 boats here, would you have room for them at your other, facility? MR. CUTRO-Yes and no, depending on, I have customers that I keep in Lake Geqrge, and I have customers that go to Hadlock Lake. I'm trying to divide up of whlch, I'd rather keep closer to Lake George, that's all. It's two and a half miles to the lake. MR. BREWER-But it's, only two miles to your place from there, right? MR. CUTRO-It's another three and a half, but I'm looking to use the buildings for inside. When you're talking about boat storage, I have to have outside storage. I'm not looking to put a lot of boats outside. I may not put any boats outside, but I can't be locked in to saying there's not going to be any, as soon as I leave one out there, and it's going to happen, because I make mistakes, you know, everybody makes mistakes. MR. BREWER-What if we lowered the number from 28 to another number? MR. CUTRO-I could probably live with that. problem with that. I don't have a MR. BREWER~Well, I'm just trying to find a happy medium. MR. CUTRO-I'm easy to get along with. I mean, but I've got to say that I can't honestly say going to be. they wa nt none, that there's not MR. BREWER-Th~y want none, you want 28. somewhere in the middle and said 15? So what if we met - 12 - '- ~ "- '--'"' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. CUTRO-How about 18? That's a place to start. r just don't want to, you know, I'm looking for commercial boat storage. MR. BREWER-I understand that, and I'm not trying to make it hard on you, but I'm trying to feel for their side too. MR. CUTRO-Right. I can live with that. them. That's why I picked that area. I would try to hide MR. BREWER-So if we defined an ar.a and reduc~d the numb~r, how does anybody else feel about that? MR. STARK-Tim, the shaded aYea is 200 feet from the road now, roughly 200 feet. It's got trees somewhat along the southerly line. Coming up 9L, you're not going to be seeing them that much. MR. BREWER-I'm not disputing that, George, but it's 50 feet from this guy's property line, and I don't know where his house is on there. MR. STARK-Yes. Well, he can still, when he stores them, store them more toward the barn, then if he ever does fill up, put them, but you know, with this area he's got shaded, he could put 509 boats back there. MR. BREWER-Right. That's why I say, actually define an area where he's going to put them, that's all. MR. CUTRO-I did that in this shaded area, and it's very exaggerated. I would put them, I mean, ,if the neighbors and I could get together, where would you like me to put them, and what color cover would you lIke'? I mean, I can do that. MR. STARK-You could put white on, white shrink wrap. MR. CUTRO-Right. time. That's exactly what we use now, in the winter MR. STARK-He doesn't neeq 100 foot. He could put 50 foot. MR. BREWER-That's fine. MR. STARK-He could cut this in half and still get 28 back there. MR. BREWER-That's right, but we're trying to work to a number, George, is my point. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, but the number's 28. MR. BREWER-Not necessarily. He said he's willing to negotiate a number. MR. STARK-He said 18, he wanted 18. MR. OBERMAYER-Do you feel comfortable with 18? MR. CUTRO-Yes, I could live with 18. Honestly, I'll be surprised if there's any outside. MR. STARK-And if they're going to be white, Tim, that's a different story. MR. BREWER-That's fine. MR. PALING-Eighteen, max, with white covers would seem to kind of mitigate the whole thing. - 13 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. GORALSKI-Could I make a suggestion on the location? MR. PALING-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-In order to kind of conceal it a little more, maybe if yOU made a square area, 100 feet from the building that's noted a,s "pQle bar D" , ,the bui ldi ng closest to the road, 100 feet back from that., and· then lQOfeet south of the building indicated as "barh" would Se 100 fbot square, and that wpuld, then you'd start using that pol~ b;rn as a screen from the road. I think that would probably be a laTge enough area to store 18 boats in, and then i'f I had to go out there to inspect it, instead of going out and measuring, you know, I could just say, okay, 100 feet off the barn is about the line of the pole barn, and you're basically limited to that area between pole barn and the barn, in a square. MR. PALING~Then ~ou'd have 100 foot square, yes. MR. CUTRO-Pretty much y00~re courtyard. saying create like a little MR. GORALSKI-Right. ~ighf in that cburtyard there. MR. CUTRO-Probably it's fine. I mean, I've'looked trying to figure that out. Again, ,this shaded area exaggerated. at this, is very MR. BREWER-That's why I would like to define an area. MR. PALING-Okày. Unlisted action. Are there any other comments? This is an MR. GORALSKI-This shaded area here, and even if you wanted to, you could have him plant some trees or a fence in here, or something like that, to screen it even more from the road. MR. OBERMAYER~Yes, that's a good idea. MR. PALING-Anc;1 that d.9~s,?,'t af,feçt the -?lçce~s., ,1 MR. OBERMAYER-In between here and there. Then you'd have very little area to buffer, really. MR. PALING-Okay. Now, do we need a SEQRA on this? M,R. GORALSKI-Yes, there's a Short Form attached. MR. BREWER-So we'll have a particular area, Bob, and maintenance on the boats? reducec;1 number of boats in any other conditions, like a no MR. PALING-Okay. I think we're ready for the SEQRA. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 68-95, Introduced by Catherine La80mbard who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before the NICHOLAS CUTRO, JR., and Planning Board an WHEREAS, this PlanDihgBoard has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: - 14 - -- -' " --' ..... (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has þeen completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no signi f icant env i ronmental effeçt ~nd the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-Okay. I think we can go right to a motion then. I'll entertain a motion for this. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 68-95 NICHOLAS CUrRO. JR., Introduced by James Obermayer who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine LaBombard: For commercial boat storage, per Section 179-13, to limit the amount of boat storage to 18 boats outside, with white covers, that there'll be no fuel storage there, won't be washing boats there. No repair or maintenance. That the applicant will submit a map to John for approval, locating specifically where the boat storage will be, per our discussion, and that the applicant will plant 15 eight foot evergreens around the perimeter where they're going to store the boats. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: , ¡ MR. OBERMAYER-And that the applicant will add~ how many plantings? MR. GORALSKI-I recommended 10 along that south portion. to 15 eight foot tall evergreens "., 'j r. ~¡; , MR. OBERMAYER-And that the applicant will plant 15 eight foot evergreens around the perimeter of where they're going to store the boats. MR. BREWER-No, I don't agree with that. MR. PALING-Not around, it's between the pole barn and the barn, right, that we want the plantings? - 15 - - ~- / (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. STARK-That's at John's discretion. there. He's going to be out MRS. LABOMBARD-Where are you going to get eight foot evergreens? MR. BREWER-I'm not going to agree with that. MRS .,-:L.:AB6M~~,RÖ-ÌL'\Y1;,DOf;, eit~~ef:" ,I {'¡ " "". , , MR"., Þ~L¡NG-W~hat;. 'is the"Probre'm" wi 1;."n ,t;.hà,~,?( .. , I I,', .' I!' (,1 , , ~ -1 :'./ 1('; 1/', ',"( .~~i! ,_j'; :'11 T,} _';1' ¡ ¡'r -,.j,') MR. ßREW,ER"7F i fte~n, ,~,ight .footeV~irgr~,ens across,heré? Don't you think ~hat's a little mubh?" " , MR. PALING-I have the same drawing. It ,does seem, like a lot of trees for that space. MR. BREWER-How far of an where this pole barn area the other barn is? "I area is that, John, from the edge of is to the outside of where that barn, MR. OBERMAYER-How about quantity to be decided by John in the field? MR. GORALSKI-You're talking about 100 feet. MR. BREWER-One hundred feet, and you've got fifteen trees. MR. GORALSKI-It's one every eight feet. That's eight feet on center. MR. STARK-Tim, do you want to make it at John's discretion, come the spring? He'~' not going to do anything now. MR. SCHACHNER-I think we'd recommend against just leaving it that loose, George. I think that puts John too much on the hot seat. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay, that the applicant will plant 15 trees around the perimeter. MR. PALING-Let me just get Tim's input here. At 100 feet, I agree with that, too. Fifteen, I think, is all right. MR. BREWER-Yes, but think about what you're talking about. You're talking about possibly 18 boats, 15 trees. We have subdivisions and we make somebody put ~ tree every 40 feet. ,How does it balance? MR. PALING-All we're trying to do is shield that, shield the view. MR. OBERMAYER-If the applicant doesn't have a problem with it. MR. CUTRO-I don't have a problem with way to plant them is more important. like this, it works better. it. Honestly, the right If you stagger the trees, MRS. LABOMBARD-I see what you're saying. No, you're right. MR. CUTRO-Instead of putting them right in line, you get more shade, because when the trees grow you always end up with a seam. MR. PALING-All right. MR. OBERMAYER-That's all I have. AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. stark, Mr. Qbermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling - 16 - -- --- '...... --.II ..... (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel NEW BUSINESS: SITE PLAN NO. 71-95 TYPE: UNLISTED EDWARD PACYNA OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: CR-15 LOCATION: 40 MAIN STREÈT APPLICANT PROPOSES TO RUN A THERAPEUTIC MASSAGE BUSINESS OUT OF HIS HOME. PROFESSIONAL OFFICES WHICH ARE ÎNCIDENTAL TO THE RESIDENTIAL USE ARE A PERMITTED USE IN THIS ZONE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 12/13/95 TAX MAP NO. 131-5-25 LOT SIZE: 7,559 SQ. FT. SECTION: 179-24 EDWARD PACYNA, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 71-95, Edward Pacyna, Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant proposes to use a portion of his existing residence as office for his therapeutic massage business. As a health ~elated facility this is an allowable site plan review use in the Commercial Residential Zone. Although the proposal does not appear to impact any of the development considerations outlined in Article V of the Zoning Ordinance, it is difficult to make a final determination without a thorough description of how the business will operate. -Will there be employees? -Will there be walk-in cli~nts? -How many clients will be there at anyone time? -What are the hours of operation? The answers to most of these questions have a direct impact on the adequacy of parking and vehicular circulation. If these questions can be addressed then 1 would recommend approval of this application." MR. PALING-Okay. Would you identify yourself please? MR. PACYNA-Edward Pacyna. MR. PALING-Thank you. comments? Would you like to comment on John's MR. PACYNA-To start, there'd be one client at a time. I'm by myself. I'm the sole proprietor, sole owner of the property. I have no intentions, at the present time, to gain another practitioner. Down the road, five to s~ven years, hopefully if business goes good, I'd like to cOhvert that into strictly business and then have the residence elsewhere, but that's down the road, if the business grows, which I hope it will. MR. PALING-I don't think you have any parking spaces. MR. PACYNA-Well, as far as parking goes, I measured this tonight, before I left, and back when I came for my variance for this garage, the main problem was when I had the other garage, you had to back out of there to get out on that main drive. Now you can drive in and back out and drive out the driveway. Where that says 12 feet, that's about 24 to 26 feet by 40, in front of that garage. We can more than adequately fit two cars there without a problem. MR. STARK-That's where we turned around, Bob, down there. MR. PALING-Yes, but then the garage is rendered useless. If you're going to claim the depth of the parking space is 24 feet, then the garage can't be used. You're going to park up against the garage. The distance behind the car is such that they couldn't back around if you used that garage. - 17 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PACYNA-Right, but that's a two car. I live there myself. My car is in the garage. So, my understanding w~uld be, there's room for two cars there to park. You can come down the driveway, turn to the left, and you can pa~k two cars, they can back out and drive out on to 40 Main street. MR. PALING-Yes, I understand that, wouldn't be able to use the garage there is my point. but it's still, then you while the cars are parked MR. PACYNA-Right, but if I'm the only ohe working there. MR. PALING-Then you dOn't care. MR. PACYNA-That's correct. MR. OBERMAYER-Will that parking at all for this? be requiring any Is that required? type of handicapped MR. GORALSKI-There really is no parking requirements listed for this. Technically, yes, there probably is a requirement for the one space that should be handicapped accessible. MR. PACYNA-As far as that goes, if I'm going to be working on someone, I go to their homes. if they have any kind of disability at all, especially a wheelchair, because most of the time people can't get out of a wheelchair, or they're more comfortable being worked on in the wheelchair. MR. OBERMAYER-I notice that you don't have any wheelchair ramp. MR. PACYNA-No. MR. BREWER-Is that a law that he has to have one? MR. GORALSKI-That would be a building code issue. I would to check with the building inspector as to whether or not office is going to have to be handicapped accessible or not. have the MR. PACYNA-And about, being that you're a resident there also. Does that have any impact? MR. BREWER-It's still a business, though. MR. OBERMAYER-It's still a commercial business. MR. GORALSKI-To be honest with you, I don't know what the actual building code requirement is. I would guess that it would have to be accessible, but that's not fòr me to say. MR. SCHACHNER-It's unlikely that the fact that it's a ,"esidence also makes a difference. I think if t,he code requires it for that sort of commercial activity, it'll be required, but I don't know the answer to that. MR. PALING-Okay. Are there any other questions or comments at the moment? Well, lets, unless you have more comments yourself, Mr. Pacyna, we'll open the public hearing. Okay? Okay. The public hearing on this matter i~ open. Would anyone care to speak? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. BREWER-Bob, if he's got a proposed deck on there, are we - 18 - "'-- :"-----,' "'--- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) looking at that, too, or is that just? MR. GORALSKI-That was from his variance application. there now, and it's been inspected. That's MR. BREWER-I don't see any problems with it. No comments. No questions. MR. PALING-Yes. I wish the parking and circulation were different, but if you're running a one man operation who has one customer at a time, it does make a difference, but if you were to expand, in any way, then I don't think it should be allowed at all. MR. PACYNA-Okay. You say expand. MR. PALING-Anything that creates traffic. MR. BREWER-In other words, if you had another employee. MR. PACYNA-Okay. In five years, I say I'm going to remodel the whole house and have it strictly business. As long as I'm the sole proprietor and sole working there, I could do that. MR. PALING-Well, it depends upon the traffic you create, whether you're alone or you have 10 employees. MR. PACYNA-But still you're only going to work on one person at a time. MR. BREWER-Right, but employees, they have to then your clients come. there, and there's only if you have get to wor k . That doubles room for two. three employees or two So they drive their cars, the amount of cars that are MRS. LABOMBARD-But you could also maybe expand the business to things like whirlpools or other therapeutic types of things where you wouldn't have to be there, where the people could come in and use those kinds of facilities without you wo~·king on them, where you might have three or four in the building at the same time. MR. PALING-Will you have a secretary, administrator, anybody like that working for you? MR. PACYNA-Now? No. MR. PALING-See, you're also saying, I think, that you'd expand in the future. If you're going to try to expand site, you're going to need more land, 'or you're going to tear the garage down, something like that. like to on this have to MR. PACYNA-Right. Well, what I'm saying is, if, five to seven years come, and business is great, and I say, okay, I want to have this strictly my business, working for myself,and just myself, that's okay, but the minute I employee someone, I'm going to neèd parking? MRS. LABOMBARD-No. The minute that the volume of clients starts to increase, that's when, it doesn't matter whether you have another employee or whether or not the volume of people are coming at a more. ,f! MR. OBERMAYER-You're going to have someone in the wa¡ting room for you, aren't you? 'J MR. PACYNA-No, because you're goi ng to w6r'k' on a person, generally, for an hour, and I usually like a half an hour, forty minutes buffer time between that, or you'd burn your arms up. So - 19 - '- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) I like to relax there'll be two leaving late, I and still baing not backing ol,.lt a little bit, and like I say, right now at most people, and if one client comes early and one's don't see a problem with two people parking there able to back up and then drive out. So you're onto Main Street. MR. BREWER-Bob, if we area here, but this whateve,-? look at this, we're concentrating on this is all nothing, right, it's all lawn or MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. MR. PALING-What's that 17 foot beside the garage? MR. BREWER-No, not that, between the back of the house driveway. I mean, that's all just grass? So, I couldn't he utilize some of that if he had to? and the mean, why MR. PACYNA-There's only one, that can be done, but there's a septic in there. MR. BREWER-The septic systßm is on the edge of the driveway, though, but I'm saying, if you made like an "L", I mean, like here, it gives you all that area. MRS. LABOMBARD-It's an option that would work if you',·e caught in a bi nd. MR. BREWER-You've got all that area right there. MR. PACYNA-Exactly. MR. BREWER-If he needed to, I mean, he could do it. MR. PALIN¿2If th¿ùlf':~'the scåle, i2':feJt~ tha{~s¡ ~ lot bigger. MR. BREWER-This says 21. He's got another big area, is it 24 by 28 garage right in that one section there. MR. PALING-And that's as big as a garage. MR. BREWER-So he's got plenty of room. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. I think we beat that one to death. MR. PALING-Okay. I'll entertain a motion. -, }1~ ~ BRE~~R.:-;We '",e g9~, :to do a $~QRA. MR: PAL!NG-sk~~A, I ;'~;! 80)\Y, 'Yes. uh,l~,sted~ Shprt F'orm, ~~SOLUTIQN ~~ËN-:bETèRM4;Nf'TI'ON ", OF . Nt:?: !~11~~ÌFi'Ç'~NÇÈ1J$' 'MADE' ~ESOLUTIÖNNO. 71-95, Introduced by ¿ath¿tlD~ .LaBombard who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before EDWARD PACYNA, and the Planning Boa,-d an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project arid Planning Board action is subject to re~iew under the state Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved.. - 20 - --- --' --- --- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December_, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Statk, M)o. Pa 1 i ng NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MOT¡O~ TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 71-95 EDWARD PAÇYNA, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Star k: Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel SITE PLAN NO. 72-95 TYPE: UNLISTED JAMES M. WELLER OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: HC-1A/RR-3A LOCATION: LEFT SIDE OF WALKUP CUTOFF APPLICANT PROPOSES UTILIZATION OF LAND FOR A FARM. AGRICUI.,.TURAL. U$!;"AND f,AR~, "ALL CLAS?E;~ ,I1Rt; $.l,JB,J~C.T TO, ,~¡TEPLAN REVIEW" AND APPROVAL IN'THE RR-3A ZONË. "WARRt:N CO.! PLANNtNG: 12/13/95 TAX MAP NO. 48-1-26 LOT srzç:: 11 .25 ACRE?" $EÇ:r~ON: 179-23, 179-15 JIM WELLER, PRESENT STAFF INPUT , , , ' Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 72-95, James M. Weller, Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant is re~uesting to utilize his property as a "Class A" farm as defined in the Zoning Ordinance. The property is split zoned, with approximately 1 acre at the intersection of Bay Road and Walkup Cutoff Road zoned Highway Commercial and the remainder of the property zoned Rural Residential. The RR zone allows farms, all classes, with site plan review. It should be made clear to the applicant that the area zoned Highway Commercial cannot be used for farm purposes. - 21 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) The use of this property for agricultural PUrposes is in keeping with the gene~al character of the area should have no negative impact on the development considerations listed in Article V of the Zoning Ordinance. The approval of this site plan will allow the applicant to raise agricultural products, keep livestock, and erect farm structures on the property." MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Would yoU identify yourself please. MR. WELLER-Yes. I'm Jim Weller. I own the property. Essentially, I've used the property for the purpose that I'm asking you to continue to use tonight, somewhat unknowingly. I've raised different crops, trees and what hav~ you on the property. I've cut hay off of it. I guess I've owned 'i t si nce the late 70's. This past year, though, I did raise three hogs, three pigs, on the property, unbeknownst to myself that I should have come here, and I guess get additional blessing in order to do that. I talked to the Planning ~taff about it, and they indicated to me that I should come and get it clarified and get a site plan review on it. I've since gotten rid of the animals. It's my plan, to put the animals back there after I get your approval. So I did m~ke a mistake, but I'd like to use the property as it's permitted to be used. and that is as a Class A farm operation. It's essentially a hobby operation for my wife and I. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. BREWER-How many animals and what kind are you going to have, Jim? MR. WELLER-I would like to be able to use this property within the guidelines of the Class A zoning in the Town. MR. BREWER-So you don't have an idea what you're going to put the,-e? MR. WELLER-I'm not sure I can be totàlly definitive. MR. BREWER-No. I mean, do you have an idea, when'you go to it this spring, that you're going to buy a couple of cows and a couple of hogs, and maybe some chickens? MR. WELLER-My plan this ~pring isn't to buy any cows. MR. BREWER-No. might do. I'm just curious if you had an ide. of what you MR. WELLER-I will put pigs back on the property, for my own use. Maybe for some of the neighbors. Actually, I had three pigs there. One of them was for one of the neighbors, that we kind of did together~ I plan, in the spring, to put chickens there. I've already filed ~ plan with the Building Department for a permit for th~ building that houses them. I've been in regular conta¿t, throughout the time that I've had anything going on there, with Cooperative Extension in Warrensburg. MR. BREWER-I just want to be careful, because we've had problems with pigs before. MR. PALING-Recently. MR. STARK-Yes, but this is an allowed use, though, Tim. MR. BREWER-No, I understand that. MR. WELLER-I don'~ intend to have any problems, and I don't attend to be abusi~e. I don't intend to offend the neighbors - 22 - '-"' ~' --.../ ',--- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) here. I'd like to do things that are compatible with the neighborhood. MR. PALING-There's no commercial intent, no resale intent, of any kind? MR. WELLER-This is strictly for the Farming regulations that are written other intent. purposes of the Class A for the zone. There's no MR. OBERMAYER-It's zoned for that, too. MR. PALING-It's zoned for that, but it doesn't put it in the little box. MR. GORALSKI-To clarify that, Mr. Paling, a Class A Farm does allow commercial operatiori. MR. SCHACHNER-Expressly. MR. PALING-Okay, but it seems we have quite a bit of discretion in this area, in rega~d to the number of animals and the type that we can, because it isn't that definitive to cap the number and types of animals, but it gives us the discretion to do so to a degree, I believe. MR. SCHACHNER-Well, I think only as it relates to the general site plan review cri.teria. I mean, a Class A Farm is defined in the Zoning Ordinance as "any parcel of lànd in excess of 10 acres", and I understand Mr. Weller to have in excess of 10 acres, "in the Rural Residential Zone that's, appropriate for the agricultural use, used for the raising of agricultural products or the keeping of poultry, fowl, livestock, small mammals, or domestic animals for commercial purposes including the necessary farm structures and the storage of farm equipment", and I think the answer to your question, directly, is you can impose reasonable restrictions and limitations in so far,as they relate to your general site plan review criteria, but there's nothing separate in the Section of the Zoning law, which is 179-63, Agricultural Uses, there's nothing separate that really gives you any authority over and above your general site plan review criteria. MR. PALING-Well, C-2, where it's under Farm Animals, "Standards for accommodation of these animals will be determined by the Planning Board with help from the Cornell Cooperative Extension of Warren County", and that's what we went through with ~his other guy before. MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. My recollection is the way this Board has interpreted that in the past has referred to "accdmmodation" of these animals, meaning what the standard~ are for how much space 'is necessary for them, what type of fencing, what type of, you know, feed, care, structures, things,like that, and I think that's all appropriate. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. SCHACHNER-That struck me as a little different than saying exactly the number of the different types of things. MR. WELLER-I would like very much for you to give me the okay to do this, with the understanding, or with the stipulation that whatever I should do there would be within the criteria and the guidelines of the Cooperative Extension, Cornell Cooperative Extension. That is the guideline that's been used for anything that I've done, and the guideline that I would intend to use in the future. - 23 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, and Bob, let me just add to that that I think using that as a guideline is all well and good, but I would stress the ter~ "guideline" because Section C2 only refers to farm animals kept on fsyms in excess of 25 acres, and that's not what we're talking about here. MR. PALING-No. We're talking 10. u MR. OBERMAYER-ll.25 acres. MR. SCHACHNER-But that's the total parcel. MR. B'REWËR-Right. MR. SCHACHNER-My understanding is 10 and a quarter are in the Rural Residential. MR. GORALSKI-That 10 and a quarter, give or take a couple of hundredths are within the Rural Residential. MR. OBERMAYER-Do you have any idea of how many pigs you're going to have, Jim? MR. WELLER-I had three this past year. might have four or five next yeár. I freezer and they're half gone now. neighbors and friends. I have a garden produce from the garden to feed them. I don't, you know, I put two of them in my I've been giving it to there. I use the excess MR. OBERMAYER-Cooperative Extension will downrate whatever the quantity of animals are per the size of the property, I would think. MR. SCHACHNER-They'll give some guidelines. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, they'll give us a guideline on how many per acre, I would imagine they refer to. MR. PALING-I don't see anything, so far, that's going to be too offensive coming out of this. It seems to be a hobby more than a, that's what it is, a hobby, and he does have 10 acres. One question I do ask is, is the line defining the separation of the two lots. MR. WELLER-There is no defining line, as far as I know. MR. PALING-John, do you want acre farms here, he has over the boundary is. to, Mark, we're 11 acres, but we talking about 10 don't know where MR. SCHACHNER-Right. The distinction is lots versus zoning lines. I don't think, if I understand co~rectly, Mr. Weller owns the entire property, it'~ not two separate lots. MR. PALING-Right. MR. SCHACHNER-But it's what we call a split zone situation. So the zoning boundary döeé run through the property. MR. GORALSKI-The zone line, basically, is a continuation of the line to the eaét, and it runs, basically cuts off that little leg of the property from the rest of the property. MR. PALING-And that measures in excess of 10 acres, what's left? MR. GORALSKI-Yes. MR. PALING-Okay. All right. I'm out of questions. - 24 - '- ~' -- '-- (Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 1~j19/95) MR. OBERMAYER-It sounds good to me. MR. PALING-Lets go to the public heat-ing. The public hearing will be open. Would anyone care to talk about this matter? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED JOAN STEVENSON MRS. STEVENSON-My name is Joan Stevenson, and I boarder on the property where Mr. Weller has his pigs, and it's about three feet from my in-ground pool, and also probably 50 feet from my house, and the stench was terrible this summer, and we had móre flies than we usually do. We couldn't go outside, and I'm afraid if he has chickens out there, there'll be rats, and it's a hobby for him, but I've got to live there. He can go on home. PAUL STEVENSON MR. STEVENSON-I'm Paul Stevenson. I'm her son. MR. OBERMAYER-Can you show us on the map where your house is? MR. PALING-Here's the buildings over here. MR. OBERMAYER-Here's 149 right here. MR. BREWER-You're back here. MR. STEVENSON-I can't read this map. MR. STARK-Do you see where Bay Road is there? MR. STEVENSON-Yes. MR. PALING-Are you on Bay Road? MR. STEVENSON-Yes, but our back, is this about where his land is right here? MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. It's his buildings. These are his buildings. This is his property right here. All this is his property. Here's Bay Road. MR. PALING-Are you across Bay Road? MR. STEVENSON-No, on this side of Bay Road. MR. OBERMAYER-$o you're right in here. MRS. STEVENSON-We boarder on Bay Road about 300 feet. MR. PALING-And your parcel abuts Mr. Weller's? MRS. STEVENSON-Yes. MR. PALING-Okay. Could you locate your pool and your house?' You said the pool was 30? MRS. STEVENSON-Where's his, do you know where the pig pen was, or where he wants to put the chicken house? ' MR. OBERMAYER-No, we don't. We should ask that. MR. PALING-Mr. Wellet-, would you mind helping us with this, please. MR. OBERMAYER-Here's Bay Road. - 25 - ..."..._------," (Queensbury Planning Board Mee~ing 12/19/95) MR. WELLER-This is my property~ This is the cemetery down here. Their house, their swimming pool is like right in here. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. MR. WELLER-Their outbuilding is there, and their house is up here. MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. MR. PALING-Well, whatfs between this and this? MR. WELLER-Another house, Bombard's house. MRS. STEVENSON-Yes. Right. There's an empty lot. MR. WELLER-I think they may have two buildi~gs back there. The cemetery's here. MR. BREWER-This is your lot here, or this one? MR. WELLER-I'm not sure. MR. BREWËR-The son is saying it's this lot here. MRS. STEVENSON-They're just about 30 f~et from my pool. MR. WELLER-Right about in here. MR. PALING-I see. Okay. MR. WELLER-That's where it was last summer. MR. 08ERMAYER-Wher~ do you plan on 106ating them? MR. WELLER-In the same general area. MRS. STEVENSON-I can't live like that. MR. PALING-Okay. Now at least we know where we're talking. All right. Go ahead Mrs. Stevenson. MRS. STEVENSON-Well, that was about it. Just that I'm practically a prisoner in my own house, and there would be rats, especially with a chicken farm. We've had more flies. If I wanted to sell, I think my real estate value would go down, and you can't get away from them. I mean, I've got 300 feet, and every bit of it boarders on it. MR. PALING-Okay. MRS. STEVENSON-That's about it. That's my main complaint. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. MR. GORALSKI-There's a letter he~e from Mrs. Stevenson, also. Would you like me to read.that? MRS. STEVENSON-No. MR. GORALSKI-No? Okay. MR. PALING-All right. I've been asked by Francis Martindale to read some~hing into the minutes tonight, and this is from the January 28, 1992 Queensbury Planning Board minutes. Mrs York- "And then I have a letter from James M. Weller, 'Dear Mrs. York and Þlanning Board Members: I have lived in the immediate area of the subject Martindðle land for over 50 years. I own more - 26 - -- ,_/ --- ',,-- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) than 100 acres of adjacent residential land. I have lived at my current location since 1965, and have made a substantial investment to enhance the residential character of the area. As such, I am without reservation, vehemently opposed to any use of the subject Martindale land for any purpose other than those that can be considered residential in character. The subject application should be denied since it is not in keeping with the residential character of the neighborhood. It violates the Zoning Ordinances of the Town of Queensbury and will not contribute to the betterment of the Town of Queensbl,..lry. Thank you for this opportunity to be heard. Sincerely, James M. Weller'" Okay. That was at the request of Francis Martindale. MR. GORALSKI-Excuse me, were those Planning Board minutes or Zoning Board minutes? MR. PALING-Mr. Martindale stated they were Planning Board minutes, I asked him the question specifically, of January 28th. MR. GORALSKI-That's fine. I just wanted to make sure that that was clear. MR. BREWER-The letter was addressed to the PlanDing ~9ard anyway. Right? MR. PALING-No, it was just a copy. MR. BREWER-No, I mean what you read. MR. GORALSKI-The original letter was. MR. PALING-Yes. No, he's doing that to illustrate what Mr. Weller said about his situation at that time. MR. SCHACHNER-We can assume anyway. MR. PALING-Now would anybody else care to talk about ,this matter? DICK KILMARTIN MR. KILMARTIN-Yes, I do. My name is Dick Kilmartin. I live on the Bay Road, and all this land that Jim Weller owns I have farmed, and the property that the Fullers own, I know that at one time they had chickens there. I've had cattle on Jim Weller's farm, piece of property, because I rent all the adjacent property to it, and to the south of Jim Weller's farm, there is, I don't know if you want to call it a horse farm or not, but they have horses, it's all pasture, and it's all farming country. I've farmed every bit of it. I live on the Dream Lake Road, just off of the Bay Road, and I've rented every piece of spare ground that was on Bay Road at the time, for farming purposes. I've had cattle. I've had pigs. I've raised corn. You name it. I've raised it, and I am still raising crops on the farm. I don't own a lot of property now, but what property I do own I am still raising crops on. It's farm land. I don't care what anybody says, because they move in there, and they've got a little one and a half or two acre lot. They think they'~e going to run us farmers out of the country. This is not so. The Town of Queensbury wants to run the farmers out of the country, and :I'll tell you right now, they're going to have a hell of a time running this farmer out of the country. I have had crops, raised everything, you name it, from peas to pumpkins. I have raised it. From pigs to cattle. I have raised them, and I am still going to raise them, come hell or high water, and if the Town of Queensbury wants to run Jim Weller out of the farming business, well, they're going to have to go back to Fred Stranahan's theory, put a school bus in if you want to raise chickens. - 27 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-Are you speaking to the issue? MR. KILMARTIN-I'm speaking to the issue. Yes. I am. This is still an agricultural country up here. As long as you've got 10 acres or more, it's agricultural. It's stated right in the books. Now, I don't know wher. the hell you people get off thinking that you can run somebody out because the neighbor's got one or one and a half or two acres. It's still agricultural country. I know the Town of Queensbury doesn't want agricultural country, but as long as I'm living in the Town of Queensbury, it will be agricultural, ánd I'll tell you something right now. You don't let Jim Weller have what he wants, the corner of Dream Lake Road and Bay Road will have the biggest hog farm you ever saw, because it's still agricultural, and I will fence it in and buy all the hogs I can buy and I'll have them there. Now you people have got to understand, Jim Weller said he's only going to raise as a hobby. There's nothing wrong with this. There's nothing wrong with this. He wants to raise a few chickens for his own use, yes. You're going to have rats, but you ask Mrs., Stevenson when she had chickens. Did she have rats? Yes, she did. When they had chickens, they had rats. I didn't have chickens, and I had rats. ì had cows and I had rats. You can't get away from rats, unless you take protective measures against rats, because I've been up there, and I saw his operaiions, and he didn't have any rats there this summer. In fact, he showed me how to get rid of rats. I raise pigs every year, every year I raise. pigs, and you people, you might not know it, but I had complaints about myself raising pigs. My neighbors raised hell because ~ raised pigs, but they all came in there after I was there. I've been there 35 years, and my neighbors have not been there 35 years. They've come in there after this. The last seven or eight years my neighbors came in there, and they don't like it because I raise pigs, but I have always raised pigs, and I don't have any rats. I don't have any rats. Maybe my neighbors have got rats, but 1 don't have any rats, and the only reason that you have rats, and you've got to put this down in black and white. The only reason there's rats is because it's not clean. It's not clean, and you're not going to get this with pigs. Pigs are the cleanest animals there is. I can show you and prove it to you, pigs are the cleanest animals there is. Now, like I said, you go back to the farming part of it. It's been farming country a long time, and if Jim Weller wants to raise two, three, four, five hogs, I don't see anything wrong with that, but anyhow, it is farming country, and damn it, lets not take this away from the people in the country. It is country. Lets leave it country. That's the way I see it. Thank you. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Who else would care to speak? ANDY PLISCOFSKY MR. PLISCOFSKY-My name is Andy Pliscofsky. I live right across the street from Mr. Weller's property. MR. PALING-Across Bay Road? MR. PLISCOFSKY-Across 149, the French Mountain side. I've lived there for going on seven years. In that time, I've made a lot of improvements to my home, which has increased the value of it, but also at the same time, Mr. Weller's property has also improved. In my opinion, his fields look better than some people's front yards. He's done a lot 6f landscaping, put in a rock wall that took many days and is very appealing to the eye. All the shrubs and stuff that he's put in. I've also visited over there during .the summer, and I'm not going to say that the lady doesn't smell anything in her back yard or whatever. I'm not over there enough, but any time I've been over there, the place has been extremely clean and well kept. As far as rats around pigs, I've -- 28 - '- --/ ,--,/ "---' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) never seen any over there, that I can recall. Jim has several rat traps, bai t boxes, over the'"e put out to control the r,ats, which is why I would say you don't see any over there. I've never found one at my house, in the seven years that I've been there, and I would think that being as I only live across the street, it's not like I'm five miles down the road. I'm within a couple hundred yards of where he's raising the pigs. Probably one hundred yards from where he's raising the pigs. I've never had any rat problems. I've never had any problems with anything he's done over there at all. He has plenty of roo~. It's extremely well kept. It's just a very well kept place, and I think anything that he's going to do over there is going to be along lines, he's going to maintain the care that he has in the past, and I have no with whatever he wants to do over there, because he's always done it right. MR. PALING-Thank you. Anyone else? CAROLYN MARTINDALE , MRS. MARTINDALE~I'm Carolyn Martindale, and we own property down the road, a farm. It's always been a farm, and when we asked to come in for site plan (lost words), we had to have a diagram. Do you have one that we could see? MR. PALING-We have a print here if you'd like to see it. MRS. MARTINDALE-Could it be put on the board, like we had to do, and see what the future plans are, you mentioned buildings. Would you have to go through site plan to have the buildings there as well? MR. PALING-These are existing buildings. MR. GORALSKI-No. There is one proposed building. MR. PALING-One building new. MRS. MARTINDALE-He said he plans to put a building to house chickens in. MR. GORALSKI-Right, and that's shown on the plan. MR. OBERMAYER-I don't think that requires site plan approval, though, does it? MR. GORALSKI-That's why he's here. MRS. MARTINDALE-Yes. MR. GORALSKI-And it's on the plan. MRS. MARTINDALE-It should be displayed so the public can see it, the size of the buildings, ingress/egress ,and everything that's involved in it. Is he going to limit himself to what's being presented here tonight? MR. PALING-Okay. Go ahead. MRS. MARTINDALE-Where does he propose to put buildings, the sizes, ingress and egress to the property. MR. PALING-All right. You want to know about ingress and egress. MRS. MARTINDALE-I don't see from a distance here, point out what he's going to do and where it's going to be. MR. PALING-Okay. Well, he has it on the print. - 29 - --- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MRS. MARTINDALE-We don't have the pr~nt. MR. PALING-Well, we're talking a chicken house, too. MRS. MARTINDALE-Right. MRS. LABOMBARD-She wants Jim to go up there and eXplain it. MRS. MARTINDALE-Where it's going to be, and ingress and egress to the property, to the bUIlding, et~., and the size of the building, how many chickens. MR. PALING-I thJnk I'll ask Mr. Weller, to do it. questions if you would, please. Ask your MRS. MARTINDALE-That's part of the questions. Also, I do believe there's wetlands on the property. I've seen a lot of fill being put in over the hill there, and I think it's near a brook. There's a lot of tree stumps being dumped there, and it's being elevated. MR. PALING-There are no wetlands on the property. MRS. MARTINDALE-Have you walked it? MR. GORALSKI-There are no property. DEC designated wetlands on the FRANCIS MARTINDALE MR. MARTINDALE-There's a creek that runs down through there. MR. OBERMAYER-It does show drainage ditch on there, but it's not DEC. MR. MARTINDALE-Because we did a highway study, and that was one of the streams of big concern when the 149 highway study was done, and there is a creek that comes off of the mountain there. Not a drainage ditch. It runs pretty much year round, except for maybe this year. I'm ~ure it didn't run this year, but there is wetlands in there. There is cattails. Cattails significantly indicate wetlands. It's in the Adirondack Park, also. MRS. MARTINDALE-It is APA land, where they do want to limit the commercial activities. Having animals, according to New York jurisprudence, which is a law designating the guidelines for zoning, etc., if you allow animals, it is a commercial activity, and I'd like to kno~just how many, is he going to be restricted to three pigs a year and so many chickens, or is he going to use this as a crutch to elaborate, you know, to expand in the future and go more commercial? Is it a hobbY? Is it permitted? Is it going to continue to be just a hoþþy, not allow further expansion of this particular use? Also, as I understand it, when we were applying for a site plan, the Town adopted a policY that they did not want to further any more commercial uses on that road until the DOT had f i nishe'd thei r wor k on the road. They were goi ng to change it, widen it, etc., and they wanted to hold any future expansion of the site planning on that road until such was completed by the DOT. Thete's been mention by Mr Kilmartin that it's always been an area where farming has been. It's my understanding that the Town, the way they interpret the zoning and site plan, that if you discontinue a use for 18 months or more, which I would contest, that you're not grandfathered in, or is strictly a site plan use. So, with Mr. Kilmartin saying he's always had animals on his property, he hasn't had animals on his property. MR. PALING-Yes, but this is Mr. Weller we're talking about. - 30 - '- .-' --'" "---' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MRS. MARTINDALE-Right, but I'm just had animals on that property there. saying that he saying he's There has not been. MRS. LABOMBARD-That Mr. Weller's had, or Mr. Kilmartin's had? MRS. MARTINDALE-Mr. Kilmartin said he's had animals on his property. MR. MARTINDALE-There has been animals raised on that piece of property. I'm Mr. Martindale. MRS. MARTINDALE-Okay. Would it be possible, while we're sitting here, to have, in case, in the event more questions come in. MR. PALING-Well, you're going to have to to the Board. We'll try to answer them. please come back. address your questions If we haven't, then MRS. MARTINDALE-Okay. MR. MARTINDALE-I have one question. Mr. Weller has a very ,nice house at the top of the hill. If he thinks pigs are no problem to have on his property, why doesn't he raise them up there, right beside his house, where at night when they get out, or when a real bad thunderstorm comes, hogs go right to pieces. I've raised hogs for year~. I've had upwards of 75 to 80 in my barns at one time, and not on 149. I had 25 to 30 on there at one time, but hogs do get very upset at electrical st~rms. Who's going to be there to take care of them at night? Who's going to address the problems when coy dogs come off the mountain, and there's plenty of them. He has 100 acres a'cross the road from his house that would be more than ample to place all the hogs that he could ever hope to want to raise. Why not put them over there, away from the people that are so close to his property? We have a church that boarders one side of his property. We have residential. You have a cemetery. I have no problem with Jimmy raising hogs, but do it over in the 100 acres that he's got. Do it away from the people. There's no question hogs are going to draw flies. They're going to draw rodents. This is the situation. There's no reason why he can't raise hogs, but do it away, not right on top of somebody's swimming pool. MRS. MARTINDALE-Not right on top of a highway. 149 is a major arterial. I see school buses going across Walkup Road every day, five days a week, not just one. There's several school buses that use that Walkup cutoff to transport children. If you get a pig loose, what is going to be the d~nger to the children? I mean, Mr. Stranahan up the road, Fred Stranahan, we've seen animals of his get loose. He's had pigs, and they've been right out in the middle of the road. It's a natural tendency. They are a wild animal. They're not under control, and they can~ they dig, they root. They have very strong noses, and they root under the fences, and they get out, and it will create a traffic problem on 149. The better location for him to do this is on 149, and that it be strictly away from most houses, and not to create a potential traffic problem, or very unsightly situation. MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Thank you. your questions haven't been answered. You can come back if MRS. MARTINDALE-Okay. MR. PALING-All right. Is there anyone else that cares to talk in this matter? ART LYCONA MR. LYCONA-Hi. My name is Art Lycona. I also live on Dream - 31 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) Lake. I don't oppose pigs or anything, but I thought the issue of this was supposed to be like a hobby farm. I'm just wondering he plans on doing as a hobby, what produce he, whether it's animals, produce, and is it for his own use, or is it for sale? MR. PALING-I thought that part of it he addressed. He said it was strictly a hobby, no commercial resale intent of any kind intended. This was, I think, the conversation we had. MR. LYCONA-Well, what are the items out there for sale today, t.hen? MRS. LABOMBARD-Wait a minute. say that. He didn't say that. Jim did not MR. WELLER-Can I clarify what I said. MR. OBERMAYER-You'll get a chance. MR. PALING-You'll be back. Okay. We'll address it. MR. LYCONA-There's stuff out there for sale right now, there has been all summer long. Are the pigs selli ng t~àt?' I . MR. PALING-No. We'll have that clarified. MR. LYCONA-Okay. Thank you. MR. PALING-Is there anyone else? BARBARA BOMBARD MRS. BOMBARD-I'm Barbara Bombard. HOWARD BOMBARD MR. BOMBARD-Howard Bombard. MRS. BOMB~RD-And our property is right bordering Mr. Weller's property. MR. PALING-Where abouts do you boarder it? MR. OBERMAYER-Right in the corner lot, right there? MR. BOMBARD-Ours is the first place south. MR. PALING-Okay. Right there. Okay. MRS. BOMBARD-And I'm a little concerned, from what I've heard. When we bought the property, our house, 25 years ago, we wouldn't have bought it if there was a farm here. We're not comfortable with that kind of, at least. I'm not. I have nothing against Mr. Weller, but I'd just prefer not to have pigs and chickens and things like that in my back ya,-d. MR. BREWER-Excuse me, Bob, can you show me their lot on this map? MR. PALING-It's right in. MR. OBERMAYER-Right in that little corner there. MR. PALING-Yes, right there. MR. BOMBARD-I've just got a question. I would like to know where, on his property, he's going to put them, because I do boarder right on the back. If he could get away from us. - 32 - '--- --../ ',- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. STARK-He's going to show us. MR. OBE~MAYER-Yes, he's going to show us, and that's recommendation. I mean, if he could put it further centralize it. That would help the situation, L think. a good away, MR. BOMBARD-I mean, if there was enough of a buffer zone between. MR. OBERMAYER-He certainly has the property ,there to do that. MRS. BOMBARD-But the things they'll bring, like flies and rats, we've already had a few rats, and just the kind of thing we get f,·om living near a farm. It's just not our cup of tea. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. MR. BOMBARD-Thanks. MR. PALING-Anyone else? No one else? Okay, if not, then we'll close the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-Mr. Weller, do you want to come back? I've got quite a list of questions, and I think I'm going to start at the bottom and get one question answered, because I misunderstood some place. Would you clarify the use that you're going to be putting the property to, I guess is the best way to phrase the question. MR. WELLER-Those proposed uses that are considered applicable under the operation of a Class A Farm. MR. BREWER-Which means commercial, everything listed. MR. WELLER-I'd like the use of the property to be understood to be utilized as a Class A Farm under the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. MR. PALING-Did you say something earlier, though, that you really have used it only as a hobby? MR. WELLER-I told you earlier, that's correct, that that's what the property's been used for up to this point, primarily as a hobby, my wife and 1, to raise different animals and crops. MR. BREWER-Potentially, then, that's not what's going to be happening in the future then? MR. WELLER-That's what's happened in the past. MR. BREWER-We're talking about the future, though. MR. WELLER-Okay. The future, the application is that I be permitted to use the property as a Class A Farm operation. MR. BREWER-Which includes a commercial operation. MR. WELLER-Whatever's under that classification. MR. BREWER-What page is it on? MR. GORALSKI-18032. MR. WELLER-And recommendations Extension. I think I agreed to and requirements be constrained of Cornell by all the Cooperative MR. PALING-Yes, you did. Okay. Could we get you to comment on - 33 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) some of the other, ingress and egress, property has anything on the print. in so far, the first one I've got is the ~nd I don't see what you're doing to the to do with that, but I see where they are MR. WELLER-Well, I located on the print a gravel road that exists there now. Now the rest of the property, 70 percent of it, you can drive over any part of it with almost any kind of a vehicle, flat mowed land. MR. PALING-But the ingress and egress that you have, as far as I know, that's adequate, and it's shown on the print, if anybody wants to come up and see it. MR. WELLER-It's shown. That's correct. cutoff. It's off of the Walkup MR. OBERMAYER-I don't see where you're going to be building the new chicken coop. MR. WELLER-Yes, there is. It's indicated, because that's primarily what triggered this application. It's indicated behind the greenhouses. MR. OBERMAYER-It,says birdhouse. MR. PALING-Okay. MRS. LABOMBARD-Is that the birdhouse? MR. WELLER-It's the poultry building. MRS. LABOMBARD-We kept thinking birds instead of poultry. We're up there going, why is it so big? MR. STARK-Mr. Weller, could you point to the map where the pigs are kept. MR. WELLER-They're kept approximately in this location. MR. STARK-There's no house there now. MR. WE'LLER-Yes, the house that the lady that first came up to speak, her house. MR. STARK-No, no, no. I mean, is there a house, where do the pigs live? MR. WELLER-In a pen, in an open pen. We'll show it. MR. PALING-Would you be willing to move them? I know that's not, you're not forced to. MR. WELLER-I won't put them back in the same exact spot next year anyway. That's not a sanitary, healthy thing to do, the Cooperative Extension people are telling me. So it will be relocated next year, to a virgin piece of ground. I can certainly move it beyond the one that's there now, farther into the field. MR. PALING-Yes. I think your neighbors are saying it would be nicer if it were relocated. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. PALING-Now, on the wetlands thing, I'm going to refer to Staff. As far as.L:m. concerned, wetl~nds is not an issue. - 34 - '--- ---' ~ '--' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. GORALSKI-There are no DEC designated wetlands on this property. MR. PALING-Okay. The question has been asked as to what the population, how many animals will be involved. MR. WELLER-I'm here tonight to ask you permitted under a Class A Farm operation, of Cooperative Extension. for whatever would be with those guidelines MR. OBERMAYER-Can we limit the amount of pigs that he has on site, then? MR. SCHACHNER-Again, I think the answer is, only if you can reasonably and rationally tie it to your general site plan criteria, and you're familiar with those, actually one of the earlier commenters on a different project referred to them also. The only other thing that I think this Board has done in the past is I think on at least one application you actually got stuff from Cornell. MR. BREWER-Yes. Why don't we do that? MR. SCHACHNER-Or the applicant did, but somebody actually had. as I recall, actually recommendations from Cornell, that said, based on this land, you could put the following number, and all that. MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, because it tells you in here how many horses you can put on the land. MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, but horses are picked as a specific species that's regulated by number. MRS. LABOMBARD-I understand that, but like I say, the pig stuff is quite moot here. MR. PALING-All right, well, I think what we're saying here is perhaps we should involve Cornell University in this to giv~~s a little bit, and you're willing to work within their guidelines. MR. STARK-We can't tie it down to a number, and I don't want to tie it down to a number. If they say he can have so many extra, you know, they could say he could have 500 pigs on there. MR. PALING-When you say, "they", you mean Cornell? MR. STARK-Yes. He's not going to have 500 pigs. MR. OBERMAYER-Even that guy that had that residential lot. I mean,' he was going to put a lot of pigs on that one, too. MR. BREWER-You say that, George, but I think you have to consider that there's people living there. There's a church there. There's a cemetery there. I mean, there has to be consideration given to that. I don't think that you can just say that this is 10 acres in the middle of the countryside. It is and it isn't, George. The)"e's a house bordering right where the pigs were last year. MR. STARK-He's going to move the pigs further into the land. MR. BREWER-Right. Suppose he moves them 25 feet to the north, or to the west. MR. WELLER-Had I known last summer, that the neighþors had a concern about it, and I'm always out there. I'm always open. I'm always there to talk. I had no knowledge until tonight. Nobody said a word at any time. - 35 - '-- -./ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, it couldn't have bothered them too much. MR. WELLER-I can't make that judgement. What I will say, I'm open to talking with the neighbors. I have worked with these particular neighbors in the past, and they wanted to be able to dispose of the excess vegetation off their property, be able to take it over to where I dispose of mine, I'm willing to do whatever I can to, keep the neighbors happy. It's not my intent to cause a contróversy in the neighborhood. If there's an odor that's objectionable to people, and it's causing them to be uncomfortable in their homea, I'll do something about it, as long as it's reasonable. I will speak, f6r just a minute, to the rat situation. That area up there is infested with rats. I didn't know it until about three and a half yeats ago. I believe, in my own assumptions, that when the landfill was shut down on Ridge Road, that the rat population that was there was driven into various other parts of the Town of Queensbury, and this particular area was one of them. I'm not sure that Mr. Bombard would follow exactly my reasoning here, but I'll tell you a little story. When I first started planting a substantial garden down there, it would have been thr~e seasons ago. I've had three seasons of what I call a.substantial garden, Mr. Bombard came out and told me, you're not going to be able to grow crops here because the rabbits will eat them off as soon as they pop through the ground, and I took that into àdvisement, and I tried to keep my eye on the rabbits and so forth. Later on in the summer, I lost probably 25 bushel of tomatoes. I lost them because the rats were running in back of those houses and across my garden and into my tomato fields. I sent my wife to Price Chopper to buy four rat traps, and I caught 16 rata in and hour and a half, running betweén my garden and the back of their homes. Now, I have been fighting the rat problem that existed there long before I came, and that I didn't start. I spent nearly $1,000 the second year to have Orkin come in and put in their rat bait traps along the property line between their properties and mine. That eradication process that I went through was to benefit me, but it also benefits the neighbors. It's our common line down through there. This past year, I have continued the eradication program, myself, using the same methods that the Orkin people taught me how to use. I now buy the traps, or make them in my shop, and we buy the poisons for the rats from commercial sources, and it's not nearly as expensive for me as the first year I brought them in. My intent is to have a clean operation, to h~v~, to, the greatest extent possible, an odor free operation, artd to have an operation that I'm happy bei ng a)"ound in my spare time, and that I can be proud of, when other people in the Town of Queensbury want to stop by and see what I'm doing, and that's the way I intend to continue to run it. I would like not to have to come back to this Board if I go from 50 chickens to 60 chickens, or I go from chickens to turkeys, or geese, or I go from hogs, to sheep to what ha~e you. That's why I asked to be able to operate the property, utilize the property, in accordance with the regulations of the Town, as a Class A Farm, and to be restricted and guided by the recommendations and guidelines of the Cornell Cooperative Extension. They're the people that have helped me up to this point. MR. PALING-Okay. All right. I want to keep going down this list, because the next item on the list is traffic. I don't see that traffic is a factor of anything that you're doing, that I can see. MR. OBERMAYER-No. MR. PALING-Caring for the animals, I take it you don't live on this piece of property? MR. WELLER-I live a mile and, 1.7 miles up the road. - 36 - ',- --- -- '--' (Oueensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-Okay. How do you take, how do you prevent the animals from? MR. WELLER-I'm there from six thirty in the morning until eight, nine, ten o'clock at night. What Fran says is true. I'm not there through the night. The animals are looked after when I first arrive in the morning, and when I leave in the evening. If my wife and I are going to be gone for the' weekend, we make arrangements with either one of my employees, or one of my other neighbors to help me take care of them. The pigs are secure. They have never gotten out. I don't expect they will. It's not a haphazard way that we're keeping them. We're trying to do it right, and obviously we did this past year. MR. PALING-One of the best ways of getting, of people settling differences, is wh.n the two parties sit down outside of this Board, there's an awful lot more accomplished than when yoU get in front of us, and I was surprised that that hasn't been done, and I certainly hope, in the future that you'd first, that anyone would first talk to M)". Weller about any problems that there may be, and I think it might be a shorter, quicker route to an~ kind of a solution, from what I'm hearing tonight. MR. OBERMAYER-I think so, too. he would work with everyone. I think Mr. Weller is shown that MR. PALING-Okay. Now, what I'm wondering is, if there was a motion, this passed tonight in a motion, and it contained that Mr. Weller would go by the general comments from Cornell, which could be obtained after this meeting, is that okay to do something like that, if we come to that point? MR. WELLER-Well, they have all kinds of published guidelines. I don't have any trouble going by the published guidelines. MR. GORALSKI-My only concern is, I don't know Cornell Cooperative Extension guidelines are. with them personally. how specific the I'm not familiar M~. PALING-We did it once with a pig farm, and they came back and were very helpful. MR. BREWER-Yes, but that was a specific. MR. SCHACHNER-Right. My feeling on that is, I think in that case you had the guidelines, you got the guidelines, or the applicant got the guidelines from the Cooperative Extension, and I agree, they were very helpful. I think the difficulty is we're talking in such an abstract here, without knowing what Cooperative Extension would say about this particular proposal, and again, one of the things I'm always on the lookout for is putting Mr. Goralski in an awkward position, in terms of enforcing a decision that this Board makes, and I think there's too much of á blank slate here. Looking to the Cooperative Extension makes some sense, if you want to do that, lets get their input. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. STARK-Bob, he's asking for a Class restrictions. Let it go as that. There's no going to put more than the land can support. put 10,000 chickens there like Gilchrist. A Farm numbers. He's not with no He's not going to MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. I have no issue, either, with going with the Class A Farm. I'd Just like to see, possibly, the moving of the birdhouse and the pig pen, as far away from the neighbors as possible to try and alleviate any impact it might have, odor from them really. It sounds like there's a serious rat problem in - 37 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) that whole area, which I don't know what to do about. MR. WELLER-Well, I'm the biggest fighter of the rat problem in the area. MRS. LABOMBARD-Well~ we're aware of that now. MR. OBERMAYER-Don't we have anybody from the Town of Queensbury that can look into the rat situation up there? MR. GORALSKI-The Animal there and take a look at that to her. Control Officer the situation. certainly could go up I can certainly refer MR. WELLER-I think it's under control, myself. MR. PALING-Okay. Martindale, did microphone. I think we're getting near to the point. you want to say? Please come up to Mr. the MR. MARTINDALE-I'm Mr. Martindale. When it comes to raising hogs, you can chain stall hogs in a 15 square foot area, and that is commercial the way they are commercially grown, and you can put a lot of hogs in a small area. Fifteen square feet on 10 acres could amount to a lot. He's not planning on doing that, I know that, but I'm telling you that if you were to go and ask for a recommendation from Cornell, they can come back and tell you that, if you tie that pig, which is a commercial operation, which is the way it's done, 15 square feet is all that's needed to raise that hog, and they only have that hog 45 days. The hog will eat seven pounds of grain a day, will gain three pounds, a pound and a half to three pounds a day, and in 45 days, will be 240 pounds. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. MR. STARK-Sob, poll the Board. I don't have any concern with this going with a Class A Farm, and that's that. MR. PALING-The public hearing's still open? MRS. LABOMBARD-No, you closed it. MR. PALING-I thought I closed it. MR. BREWER-I don't have any problem with what he's going to do, but I just think that there's an awful lot of uses that can be used on there. I mean, suppose he has the pig farm, and then he wants to start selling, turns it into a big store out front, George. That's okay? MR. GORALSKI-No. MR. BREWER-Lets say a stand. MR. WELLER-I've got a fruit stand there now. MR. BREWER-Okay. I'm just thinking of the possibilities. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what you're doing, but I would like consideration ~iven to the neighbors with the pig pen, a minimum. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, I agree with that. MR. STARK-Fine. He can go back into the parcel more. MR. BREWER-I think we ought to distinguish what should be done, or maybe you can suggest something to us, Jim. I don't know. - 38 - "- -----' ~ "---' (Queensbu)"y Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. WELLER-It's in my interest, I presume you're going to give me an okay to do this, because I think what I'm asking for is reasonable. It's in my interest, once I get your okay to do this, to work with the neighbors. Whether John comes out and enforces this regulation or that regulation, if I become a nuisance in the neighbo)"hood, they've got a civil action against me. I mean, I've got to work with my neighbors. I can't diminish the value of their properties. I can't prevent' them from having a quiet enjoyment of their own homes. I jùst can't do those things. Those are not permitted in our society. They can bring action against me. I'm going to work with my neighbo~s. I always have worked with my neighbors. MR. OBERMAYER-Would you mind if we put like a certain buffer zone, a distance from your property line to the location of your pig pen, I mean, just to tie it down. You have to be 200 feet from their property line? MR. WELLER-I don't think I can do that. I mean, you're taking an acre of property away f)"om me. MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, I'm concerned about, isn't it the upper Bay Road Presbyterian Church that's right there? MR. WELLER-Yes. They were notified of this meeting, and I don't know of anyone who objected. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay, because I know that they have weddings there in the summer time, and people are outside, but they were notified. MR. WELLER-If there was going to be an odor problem, the prevailing winds there are from the south, or the southwest, and so if there was going to be transfer of odor from where I was doing it, or from any place that I do it on my property, it would never go to the Church. The wind would have to be out of the northwest to go to the,Church. MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. It would go the other way. Yes. MR. WELLER-So, it would be toward the Stevenson's place, toward the Bombard's place, or my office. MR. OBERMAYER-Why do you say the prevailing winds are from the southwest? I thought the prevailing winds are normally from the northwest? MR. GORALSKI-No. MR. WELLER-The prevailing winds here are from the southwest. MRS. LABOMBARD-No, I kind of feel the same as Tim does. We do have to be considerate of the neighbors, and I think that right now you've played an integral part in keeping that whole area free from rats, or doing your best, and you seem to know what you're doing, and just by your profession as an engineer, engineers are kind of meticulous anyway, that I'm jus~ kiQd of theorizing on that, but as long as we keep the nei~hbors in consideration, I have no problem either. MR. 08ERMAYER-As I mentioned before, I have no problem with the Class A Farm. I'd just like to $ee a certain minimize distance that you could put the pen to the property line, just to serve as a buffer. It doesn't have to be 200 feet. It can be something that everybody can work toward and agree to. MR. PALING-George? - 39 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. STARK-Nothing, Bob. MR. PALING-Okay. I don't have much to say on this either. The application he's made is very clear, and it is permitted within the Zoning Ordinances, and I kind of, I have a gut feel that if the neighbors had talked to Mr. Weller in advance of this, there wouldn't be the disagreemènt we have tonight. He seems to be willing to cooperate, and I'm basing my conclusions a lot on that. Okay. If there are no other questions, then we, the public hearing is closed. I think we can proceed to a SEQRA on this. MR. OBERMAYER-Did we agree about the, does anybody agree about the buffer, or not? MR. PALING-I don't know. We've all had our comments, and we can, eventually we can have a motion, and when it's seconded, we have discussion still further at that time. I think that's the only way to rinse it out to see what we really feel, and go from there. Okay. Cathy, do you want to go ahead with the SEQRA. MR. PALING-The public hear i ng is closed. -;'.> MRS. MARTINDALE-You told me I could come back up and ask some questions. MR. PALING-You're right. MEMBER OF AUDIENCE-If you'd looked this way, you noticed, two people had their hand up when you were stuff. You wouldn't even look up. would have saying that MR. PALING-No. Td Mrs. Martindale I said to her that you can come back up if your questions weren't addressed. I think I looked the audience over completely, before I closed the public hearing, but Mrs. Martindale, yes, please come back to the podium. I apologize. MRS. MARTINDALE-Excuse me. I'm Carolyn Martindale, again. I still didn't have any size, verbally, given of what the chicken house or birdhouse that he has on this drawing, what the size is. I did ask that question, and I was told that he would answer it when he was up here. MR. PALING-Okay. He mayor may not answer the question. sure that we're required. He's meeting the setbacks, what we're concerned with, and drainage. I'm not is more MRS. MARTINDALE-That is public information that should be available to the public in order to determine, the purpose of the Planning Board is to determine not only the present use but the future use on the property. Thi¿ is what we were very implicitly told when we were before the Board. MR. PALING~AlI right. birdhouse. You're asking for the size of the MRS. MART~NDALE-And any future projections for the property. If you are going to allow a full Class A Farm, it is going to affect the school buses, the children in the area, and a full environmental impact road study would be involved in it. You've got three roads involved. You've got Walkup Road Cutoff. You've got Bay Road. You've got 149, which as I stated before is a major arterial between New England and New York State, and a full impact study would be required. If he does it as a hobby farm right now, fine. That would not be required, but if in the near future, if he's going to expand oh that, he should come before the Board once again and state everything he's going to do, other - 40 - '''-''' ---- '-- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) than the hobby farm, and environmental impact study. go before Thank you. the public with a full MR. PALING-All right. Now, I did not mean to miss anybody. If I missed someone in the public hearing, I'm going to re-open the public hearing, if it's all right with the Board. MRS. LABOMBARD-No. MR. PALING-Well, I think someone's claiming that we didn't see their hand, I didn't see their hand raised, and if I didn't, then I want to give them an opportunity to speak. MR. BREWER-Let them speak. MRS. LABOMBARD-Re-open ,it and let them speak then. MR. PALING-I'll re-open the public hearing. Now if there's anyone that I didn't get to please come forward. PUBLIC HEARING RE-OPENED ART LYCONA MR. LYCONA-My name's farm here, he has to till the land. Where Art Lycona. If he plans to have a hobby have equipment, right, to run the farm, to is all that equipment being stored? MRS. LABOMBARD-I think we've missed the whole point he~e. He's not. He has come before us to have a Class A Farm, which, if you take a look at the book, it i~cludesfor that, to have that Class A Farm, it includes two pages of things that are allowed. Period. MR. LYCONA-Okay. I'm at 10 acres. to to house the equipment? Wh~re are those barns going MRS. LABOMBARD-As long as he meets understand that. the setbacks, I just MR. L YCONA-You 've got to have bar.ns to put the stuff in. MRS. LABOMBARD-He has buildings. MR. LYCONA-That's commercial, isn't it? MR. BREWER-There's nothing wrong, he has the barns there. He can put his equipment in those buildi ngs. I presume that's ,what you're going to do, Jim? MR. WELLER-Most of th~ equipment that I use regulàrly is currently in those buildings. MRS. LABOMBARD-He doesn't have any plans for anotheT building to be built except for the birdhouse. MR. BREWER-Does it make a difference whether it's a tractor pr a truck in that barn? MR. LYCONA-You can't plow a field with a truck. MR. BREWER-But if there's a tractor in there right now. MR. LYCONA-Yes, okay, if there's a tractor there, property where all those barns are, next to his property, his business, do they have construction trucks stored or farming equipment. in that adjacent in there - 41 -- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. BREWER-I don't understand what the point you're trying to make is. MR. OBERMAYER-What's the difference? MR. BREWER-If he has those buildings there now existing, wouldn't it be better for him to store his equipment in those buildings that are existing? MR. LYCONA-Okay. Is that considered part of the farm? MR. BREWER-No, they're existing. MR. LYCONA-Okay. There you go. of the barn, is that commercial? commercial property, or are they acres? They're existing, existing part Those barns now, are they on part of that 10. something MR. BREWER-They're part of that 11.25 acres. It's all one lot. The only distinction in this parcel is the zone, the change in the zone. On that piece right where all those buildings are, that's commercial. Okay. The rest of this is all RR-3, farm, okay. He can have the farm here. He can have the commercial equipment there whether we give him the faYm or not. If he wants to buy 10 tractors tomorrow and go put them in those barns there, he can do it. It would be better for him to have them in those buildin~s than to build new buildings. MR. PALING-Now is First of all, the asked. there anyone else who would care size of your birdhouse, the question to speak? has been MR. WELLER-The one that's currently before the Building Department on an application for a building permit, I believe, the plan, I believe, is 12 foot by 14 foot, maybe 12 by 16, but I believe it's 12 by 14. MR. PALING-All right. futu1"e use you intend range, birdhouse. The question has been asked to put the farm and the house about the to, long MR. WELLER-I have not been specific beyond only those uses permitted under the Class A Farm operation. MR. PALING-Okay. All right, and then you~ve been asked about whe1·e you store equipment, which I have a hard time wi th, but you might want to comment on it. MR. WELLER-Some equipment is currently stored outdoors. equipment is stored in the existing buildings. Some MR. PALING-And I have no, I can't argue with that. MR. BREWER-No. I mean, what's the big deal? MR. PALING-All right. .Now those were the questions. Are there any additional questions? MRS. MARTINDALE-Yes, I would just like to reinforce it's a hobby now. Any future use other than the hobby farm would have to come before the Board again. It would require a full environmental impact statement. MR. PALING-If he's within th~ use of a Class A Farm, I don't think there's anything that we can do. MRS. MARTINDALE-Class A Farm future uses that he wants to is very broad. He should state any do, and make it very clear before - 42 - '-"" ---- - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) the Board, or else come before the Board again. MR. BREWER-John, does he have to come back for a $ite pl_n if he plans to build any buildings or do anything in the future? MR. STARK-If he meets the setbacks, no. MR. BREWER-Do you have a problem with that, Jim? Do you have a problem with that, if you plan on building a commercial building on that property, come back here to this Board? MR. WELLER-I believe your regulations require that if I want to build a commercial building on that property, ¡ must get, I'd have to get a variance. MR. GORALSKI-what do you mean by a "commercial building"? MRS. LABOMBARD-Like a store. MR. GORALSKI-Yes, any of that. A store is not even an allowable use. A farm stand for produce grown on the site is allowed. MRS. LABOMBARD-He has that. MR. BREWER-He has that now. MR. GORALSKI-Right, but if he ~ants to build a store of any kind, it's not an allowable use. He would need a variance to do that. MR. BREWER-So it's not an issue. If he wants to expand put a restaurant or a general store or anything, he has back to the Town to get an approval for that. it and to come MR. WELLER-Correct. MR. BREWER-Okay. MRS. MARTINDALE-It's my understanding, according to the current zoning, that anything over a 10 by 10 structure would have to go through site plan review. MR. GORALSKI-That's not true. There are three types of uses in every zone. There are permitted uses that don't require any review except a building permit. There are accessory uses which, again, don't require a site plan ,'eview, and then there are site plan review uses, which do require a site plan review. Depending on what use you're proposing, they fall under one of those categories. MRS. MARTINDALE-Okay. Like I said, we've been through this before with the Town, and under a Class A and ClassC, which we are, we were Class A and Class C,which permits growing and selling vegetables etc., on site. We've had trees there for years. We've sold scotch pine trees. We've had people come in and buy trees, and cut the limbs and make projects out of ~hem, to put the kids through college and everything, a,nd we have been under the understanding that if we put a commercial building up there, anything more than a 10 by 10, we'd have to go through site plan. MR. BREWER-Exactly. MR. GORALSKI-On this site, on Mr. Weller's sit~, talking about a retail building, it's not an allowable not a use allowed even under site plan review. if you're use. It's MR. BREWER-You can't put one there, period. - 43 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. GORALSKI-Without a variance, he can't do it. MR. PALING-All right. I'm afraid that we're kind of getting too broad. Do you have any other specific questions We can ar~~er? MRS. !':1ARTINDALE-In the Highway Commercial, all uses have to come before the Board, right? MR. SCHACHNER-This isn't a Highway Commercial. MRS. MARTINDALE-Yes, it is. MR. GORALSKI-No. It's Rural Residential. MRS. MARTINDALE-Part of it, the first acre where he has been selling, he is selling wreaths and trees, etc., is under Highway Commercial. MR. BREWER-We're talking aþout the RR-3 property right now. MRS. MARTINDALE-In the paper it said Highway Commercial and RR-3 Acre. One point something acres, which was identified tonight, was Highway Commercial, and this is where the current activity of selling is presently being done. MR. BREWËR-Okay. enforcement. Then that's not an issue for us. That's MR. GORALSKI-No. I think I can address that. I think I can clear this up for you. The Highway Commercial area, which is this leg here. MRS. MARTINDALE-Right by Walkup Road. MR. GORALSKI-Right. That area doe a allow retail business with a site plan review. MRS. MARTINDALE-But none has been done. MR. GORALSKI-He is selling produce. He's a farm stand. He's got a farm stand there. It's not technically a building. It's a farm stand, which is allowed under the Transient Merchant Law. MRS. MARTINDALE-For a 10 by 10 area only. That's what we were told. Timmy Brewer can vouch for that. We were told a 10 by 10. Anythi ng other t,~{3 n th,at is ,si te iP.I~ r,~ :' .: MR. GORALSKI-Mrs. Martindale, I wasn't here, an~! ¡ dpD't know what you were told. MRS. MARTINDALE-This is wh?t he's doing, and it concerns what you allow him to do tonight, in your s¡te pl~n. MR. GORALSKI-Mr. Paling, what Mr. Weller has done this past year is legal under all of the Codes and Ordinances in the Town of Queensbury. ' MR. PALING-All right. MRS. MARTINDALE-But my main concern is, if it goes beyond a hobby farm, then a full environmental study on 149, yes. It's going to affect traffic. It's going to affect the school, safety and health of the school children. MR. PALING-Okay. thank you for it. We have your opinion under advisement. We MRS. MARTINDALE-Okay. Thank you. - 44 - "--' --/ ---- '--, (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-All right. Then if there's no other questions or comments, the public hearing is closed. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-And I think we can go right to the SEQRA now, can we not? MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. MR. PALING-This will be unlisted, but a Short Form. MRS. LABOMBARD-"Any adverse affects associated with, existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic patterns, solid waste production' or disposal" I can stop there. Maybe we can mi tiga'te that. "Potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems". MR. PALING-I think there's at least two areas. One is the water flow, the drainage, and then the other is the manageroent of the manure, or whatever. MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. MR. OBERMAYER-How is the proposed affecting the drainage? MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. from. I don't understand where the drainage comes 'I' MR. PALING-The manure or what not generated could be part of runoff to adjacent properties. MR. STARK-Bob, I think it would soak into the ground before it got anywhere near that drainage ditch. I mean, you're talking 2, 300 feet away, and then some. MR. WELLER-The manure is plowed into the ground, to the garden. MR. PALING-It is plowed into the ground? MR. WELLER-Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. ferti 1 izer . He uses it all the time in the field, RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE REsoLuTION NO. 72~95, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard ~ho moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before JAMES WELLER, and the Planning Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review,under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmehtal Conservation Regulations - 45 - - ~" ,. (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95 ) implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-Okay. Then we can go to a motion, now. MR. STARK-With no conditions, Bob? MR. OBERMAYER-What about the buffer? MR. BREWER-No. I think we should give some consideration to moving that and Mr~ Weller has indicated that he would. M~. OBE'RMAYE'R-You' Ii work wr'th the neighbors,' Jim'? MR. WELLER-I have no problem whatsoever working with the neighbors. That's my history. - MR. OBERMAYER-Right. I mean, you maintain your place great. MR. BREWER-So, what's a reasonable distance from their back yard? If it was your back yard, what would be a reasonable distance to you? MR. WELLER-Fifty feet. MR. BREWER-No. MR. STARK-What is it now? , "Mt{. o'E3t:RMAYER-Hé' shows ,i t !5o' ' feet. ., . I . LI"'~M ¡' GORAL$KI-The ex isti nQ greenhouses' ~fé ! 1',P,~98'~,<~'y" Il,'m,g~vinv~y,ou,a )"eference oh ,(, g'rêe~.opSe$ are 75, feet. , MR. WELLER-If there's an odor going to be generated from that pen~ . the odor, and the prevailing winds are in the right dire6tion. The odor will travel to that direction, whether it's 50 feet away or 500 fe(:3t away. I can stand at that" where th¡,Ü pen is, when the wind is in the right direction, and I can smell a pile of hors, manure from the farm down the road. Now I don't know that that's what's blowing across my neighbor's properties. It blows across mine, and they're 1,000 feet away. So it's ! ': abo~t j~ f~ei from the . th4tp"¡~'ri ~ the e:dsti ng - 46 - ~ ---..- '- -.-'^ '--' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) meaningless, in my 200 feet away and neighbors may not understanding that any discomfort that judgement, to say to me, I've got to put it to think the problem will go away. The still be happy. I would rather have an I will work with the nei~hbors to alleviate they've got. MR. OBERMAYER-I think that's fair. That's ~ feeling. MR. STARK-So no stipulations, then. MR. BREWER-How does John enforce that? MR. SCHACHNER--That's not something that we're going tò recommend as a condition ever. MR. BREWER-It would be ~ recommendation to say 100 feet. I mean, he's got 10 acres of land. If he can't be 100 feet away from his neighbors, then there's a problem, with the pigs, in ~ eyes anyway. I mean, I don't think that's unreasonable. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, I don't think that's unreasonable. MRS. LABOMBARD-I don't think that's unreasonable, either. MR. STARK-For the pig pen, not the chicken house. MR. BREWER-For the pig pen. MR. OBERMAYER-He probably wants the pigs next to the chickens. MR. PALING-And you're saying the pigs because of the odor? MR. BREWER-And they draw flies and what not, etc. MR. PALING-All right. Well, Tim, do you warit to make a motion? MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 72-95 JAM~S M. WELLER, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption,~econded by George Star k: That any pig pen be a minimum 100 feet distance from neighboring property lines. -. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel SITE PLAN NO. 73-95 TYPE: UNLISTED JACK WHITNEY OWNER: SOWAMCO XXI, LTD ZONE: CR-15 LOCATioN: 18 MAIN STREET PROPOSAL IS FOR RESIDENCE WITH ELECTRONIC SERVICE SHOP IN F.RONT LIVING ROOM AREA @ 10' X 20'. PER SECTION 179-24, RETAIL BUSINESS IS SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 12/13/95 TAX MAP NO. 131-1-11 LOT SIZE: .396 SECTION: 179-24 3(b)[10] JACK WHITNEY & MARK LEVACK, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 73-95~ Jack Whitney, Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant is proposing to locate his electronics sale and service business in a portion of this - 47 - - ----- ----~-" -'~ ... - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95 ) existi ng re~id~nce. . ~}he us~ .Is, cpmp~tible ,.wi1th the. sUTroundi ng area. -Vehlcular acces's ap'pears adequaté, however, 1 t ~.¡ould be wise to pave the area between the house an<;i the p~rkin~ spaces so that vehicles wi 11 have more room to maneuver ~¡ }''':'The par ki ng spaces shown on the þlan do not meet the dimensional requirements of the code. It does appear that there is plenty of room to provide 5 or 6 spaces. A revised plaQ should be submitted to show conforming parking spaces. All othe~ requirements appear to be met." MR. WHITN~Y-Jack Whitney. MR. LEVACK-Mark Levack. MR. PALING-Okay. Any comments by the Board? MR. OBERMAYER-Just John's comments. MR. PALING-That's all I think ~ have, too. MR. STARK-Can the applicant address the comments made by John? MR. PALING-Yes. Parking, I guess, is the major one here. Would you care to comment on the re-design of the,parking? MR. WHITNEY-I'd go with whatever you say. MR. PALING-Okay. It sðys five or six spaces, John, but it shows five on the print. MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Just looking at it quickly, I didn't lay it out, but I think you can certainly a<;iequately supply five spaces on the plan, I mean, on the site. MR. PALING-Yes, I think so, too, and how about the paving? Would you. be willing to do that? MR. WHITNEY-Yes. MFL PALING-Yes. Okay. You'll do the paving. MR. LEVACK-The paved area comes right to about, 3/4 of the way to Parking Space Number 1. So with the extension of some additional paving at the back end of the parking lot, and changing a little bit of the radius for the cars to turn around, so that they can back out and forward back out of the lot, really is a minimal improvement to the lot, and I think we can provide the plan that's shown here. MR. PALING-And that's what I think John is getting at. Yes. That sounds good to me, too. Okay. Are there any other comments or questions from the Board? MR. STARK-~Q~e.., i-\ ' MR. PALING-All right. Lets go right to the public hearing. Are there any comments on this application? Would anybody like to talk for or against? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-This is an Unlisted Action, and we'll go to the SEQRA. Cathy, if you don't mind. I i' - 48 - - "...,./ ---.-" - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) RESOLUTION WHEN DçTERMtNATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 73-95, I nt roduced by Cather i ne LaBomba)"d who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before JACK WHITNEY, and the Planning Soard an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisteQ in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules, and Regu lat ions for the Stàte of New Yor k, this Board finds 'that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-All right. I think we can then go right to amotion. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 73-95 JACK WHITNEY, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Star k: Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Star k, Mr. Obe,'(n1ayer" Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel SITE PLAN NO. 74-95 TYPE: UNLISTED GLENS FALLS KENNEL CLUB - 49 - '-.' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) OWNER: PAUL BRANDT ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: 2 MILES WEST OF EXIT 18, IN THE OLD WEST MT. TRACTOR SALES BUILDING. APPLICANT PROPOSES KENNEL CLUB. ALL LAND USES IN LI ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: UV 80-1995 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 12/13/95 TAX MAP NO. 126-1-60, 61, 62 LOT SIZE: 8 ACRES SECTION: 179-26 SCOTT TOWNE & MARK LEVACK, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 74-95, Gléns Falls Kennel Club, Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant is proposing to use a portion of an existing building at the former west Mountain Sales site as a training center for the Glens Falls Kennel Club. There is no construction proposed for this project. A question that has arisen regarding this site is the use of the remaining buildings on the site. In general, the vehicular and pede~trian circulation as well as the parking appear adequate, however, if there are several different uses on the site, the Board should be sure that the site is able to accommodate all of the uses. A review of the Zoning Board of Appeals minutes indicates that there will be no boarding dogs this site and there will be no outdoor activity related to this use. The motion approving the use variance also requires that the Kennel Club operate only during 'normal business hours'." MR. TOWNE-Scott Towne, Vice President of the Glens Falls Kennel Club. MR. LEVACK-Mark Levack, Levack Real Estate. MR. PALING-Do you have any comments on John's comments? MR. LEVACK-Yes. John, the motion regarding no outside use, I thought we did have the ability to have part of the operation be conducted outdoors. MR. GORALSKI-That's not what the motion said. I don't know if I have it here or not. MR. PALING-This is for training purposes only. to board dogs. This is training. You're not going MR. TOWNE-An indoor training facility, 90, 95 operation is done indoors, and, Scott, you could on what opportunity and when these activities place outdoors. percent of the probably comment would be taking MR. PALING-Yes, because so far we thought it was indoor. MR. TOWNE-Yes. We do some. like breed training for dog shows. These dogs have to not only be able to be trained for indoor shows, but outdoor shows on grass. So 'this gÌiVes the . dogs an opportunity to experience what it's like to go around the ring on a grass surface, for instance. MR. PALING-What's the objection to that, if they ~o outsidé? MR. SCHACHNER-I don't think anyone here was suggesting an objection, only that the ZBA Variance said something about it. Ii' MR. GORALSKI-Let me read through the motion here. MR. PALING-Yes, that's something the ZBA did, not something we did. MR. LEVACK-I'm just tTyingt~ ~get 'àclarification on what the - 50 - ~..' ~ '---", (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) mot:ion said. I 'guess :1 came away ¡from thl.1t meeting wit.!h' the ,understandihg;we clea¡,lytold them that they were going to have, you know, 10' pèrcent of their opèrationl mi~h't" be conducted outdoors, and lt~$"news to me that.it rnight'¡not be a permitted use at this point. MR. PALING-Yes. That's what it says, but lets see. MR. GORALSKI-I stand corrected. It's not in the motion. I stand corrected. MR. LEVACK-Okay. Thanks. MR. PALING-And then beyond that, there's no objection to outdoor training of the dogs, I assume. MR. GORALSKI-The only reference here says "The applicant has addressed the concerns of this Board as far as excessive noise, waste removal problems, and I would look forward to welcoming them to that particular area." MR. PALING-Okay, but what do you do about waste disposal outside? MR. TOWNE-Everyone who uses our facility is responsible for their own dog, not only clean it, but take it with them. MR. OBERMAYER-Their own pooper scoopers. MR. BREWER-The only question I have is, and I don't think it's a big problem, what's normal business hours? MR. GORALSKI-I don't know. That's what it says in the motion. MR. TOWNE-We're operating basically evenings. Six o'clock to nine o'clock's the latest that we operate. Basically, because people are available at night. That's when our trainers, who work day time jobs, are also available. MR. BREWER~And I don't really see that as a big problem. MR. PALING-And nine o'clock is a normal business hour. MR. OBERMAYER-How many members do you have? MR. TOWNE-We probably have around 65, 70 members organization. Not everyone actively participates. Of most of our training is done for the general public, not members. Some of them do, of course, but it's open general public. in the course, our own to the MR. PALING-The public hearing on this matter, I'll open that now. Would anyone care to speak on this matter? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-I'll go to the SEQRA. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 74-95, Introduced by James Obermayer who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before the Planning GLENS FALLS KENNEL CLUB, and Board an - 51 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the staté'ËrrvirönmentatOuality: Rèv!ì'ew Act, ;:\¡ NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOL.VED:, !í'¡¡ "'1 1. No federal agency áppears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that thè action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-Just before we go to a motion, reference on the print to under construction is strictly within the building? There's nothing outside you're building? MR. No MR. PALING-Right. Okay. I would entertain a motion on this. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 74-95 GLENS FALLS KENNEL CLUB, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded by James Obermayer: Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. OBERMAYER-Mark, are they going to paint the outside of the building? - 52 - '--" "--" --../ " '-' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. LEVACK-It's going to look great. SITE PLAN NO. 75-95 TYPE: UNLISTED LEEMILT'S PETROLEUM CORP. OWNER: SAME ZONE: NC-l0 LOCATION: GETTY GAS STATION, LOCATED AT INTERSECTION OF DIXON AND AVIATION ROADS. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONVERT EXISTING RETAIL SPACE FOR USE AS A MODEL TRAIN AND SPECIALTY SHOP. ALSO PROPOSED IS A CUT FLOWER BUSINESS. SITE PLAN REVIEW IS REQUIRED AS A CONDITION OF USE VARIANCE NO. 85- 1995 APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: UV 85-1995 TAX MAP NO. 91-1-1 LOT SIZE: .21 ACRES SECTION: 179-25 R.J. SNYDER & RALPH GARAFOLO. REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 75-95, Leemilt's Petroleum Corp., Meeting Date: December 19, 1995 "The applicant wishes to use the NE corner of the existing building for a floral and gift shop, and the south side of the building for a model train business. The gas station use will remain as will the apartment on the second floor. The two proposed uses are not high traffic generators, however, this is a small lot located at a difficult intersection. One of the existing problems at this site is that vehicles cut through the parking lot to avoid the intersection, and there is not a defined access point along Aviation Road or Dixon Road. The plan as submitted provides 10 parking spaces. Assuming 2 spaces will be utilized for the gas station and one for the apartment, there will be 7 spaces available for the retail uses. Because thè retail uses are not high traffic generatoTs, it appears that this will be a sufficient number of spaces for this project. In order to control traffic circulation the drive aisle should be one way as shown on the plan. Instead of painted lines, it is recommended that the pavement be removed and planters be constructed to define a 24' wide entrance on Aviation Road and a 24' wide exit on Dixon Road. There should be a one waylentrance only sign at the Aviation Road entrance and a one waylexit only sign at the Dixon Road exit. The planters will not only serve to define the access points but can be landscaped to improve the appearance of the site." MR. SNYDER-Good evening. My name is R.J. Snyder. I'm here as an agent for Leemilt's Petroleum. Leemilt's is seeking a site plan approval to allow a model train business, along with a cut flower business, in the NC zone. The subject property is located at Aviation Road and Dixon Road. We've recently received a Use Variance to allow these two businesses, along with variances to allow the 10 parking spaces. In 1993, Leemilt's was granted an approval to allow a carpet store and printing business to be located at the proposed location. and every time a new business comes into this location, because it's preexisting, nonconforming, we have to go for zoning, and then we have to come back ,tö you. So it ,isn't like you grant us:sofTIething and it's forever. A change of business would ,have to come before you. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. OBERMAYER-Right. MR. SNYDER-As the planner was speaking, we've already worked out the parking arrangement that was described, along the planters and the striping. That's pretty much been worked out between us. MR. PALING-Yes. That alley way is a very violated alley way at the present time. MR. STARK-Do you have any problems with the recommendations that Mr. Goralski has made? - 53 - ''-- .- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. SNYDER-None at all. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. GORALSKI-I just want to make that clear, because we didn't discuss this on the phone. Where you have painted lines there, and just that square box planter, I'd like to see that whole painted line as a planter, that whole area. Instead of having the painted lines there, that entire thing be a planter with landscaped, to dress it up, okay. MR. SNYDER-Sure. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. MR. BREWER-Where the hatched lines are, the planters are, that whole thing be a planter, rather than the hatched lines on the plan. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. OBERMAYER-Right now, Sokol's plows one side, right, and then people cut through. How far over, I see it goes 36 feet, but how close to Sokol's is that 36 feet? MR. SNYDER-Four feet. MR. OBERMAYER-It's four feet from the corner of Sokol's? MR. SNYDER-That's just a guess. It's very close, the edge of the property line, there's not much space there. They're plowing snow right now on our property, because there's not much activity there. MR. OBERMAYER-Right, but that roadway that they've plowed right now, is that your property? MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. SNYDER-Yes. MR. OBERMAYER-So, Sokol's is going to have a tough time, when you put that guardrail up there. MR. SNYDER-They sure are. MR. GORALSKI-Maybe we can get them review and we can cut off their road to come in for a site access, too. plan MR.OBERMAYER-That would be great, let me' 'tell you. mess over there. That's a MR. BREWER-Whereabouts are you going to take your snow, or put it? I MR. SNYDER-We have a snow shelf out front, that was agreed upon back in 1993. You see on the corner there. When it gets three feet hiSh, t6 be~emoved. MRS. LABOMBARD-I buy gas there a lot. I'~e seeni it be Temoved before. MR. BREWER-Three feet, that's not really a lot of snow, is it? ! ¡ MR. GORALSKI-They remove it a couple of times a yea,-. MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, they must have to remove it. There's no place there. - 54 - --./ .-' "'-' (Oueensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-They have to, because when you're turning from Dixon onto Aviation, left. MR. STARK-You've got to be able to look right, east. MR. BREWER-Yes, no question. MR. OBERMAYER-One thing this'll do, though. all the traffic going to Sokol's through your sure. This'll eliminate lot, that's for MR. STARK-I have no comment. MR. OBERMAYER-Did you talk to Sokol's about it? I mean, did you let him know what's happening? MR. GORALSKI-They were noticed. They did receive a notice. MR. OBERMAYER-Because usually he's something like that. pretty outspoken about ,MRS. LABOMBARD-Are you going to leave those big overhead doors for your model train business? MR. SNYDER-Presently, we're not going to remodel that. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. I was just wondering, and where will people be able to access, to get inside. MR. SNYDER-Those doors in the rear. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay, all right, and you cut through. Yes, I remember. I've been in there when the carpet business was in there. MR. GARAFOLO-Ralph Garafolo. MR. GORALSKI-It's just Lionel? MR. GARAFOLO-No, no. MR. GORALSKI-You're going with HO? MR. GARAFOLO-No, not HO. We've got GJ, OGB Marklands. MR. PALING-All right. We will go to a public hearing, I believe. We'll open the public hearing if anyone has any comment on this matter. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-And move to the SEORA. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 75-95, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before the Planning LEEMILT'S PETROLEUM CORP., and Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, - 55 - '-.., (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concéyn and having considered the criteria for determining whethey a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-I think we can go right to a motion on this, if someone would care. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 75-95 LEEMILT'SPETROLEUM CORP., Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer: With one condition, for the planters, that they agree to John Goralski's recommendation, where he wants them. Duly adopted this 19th day of December, 1995, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel MR. PALING-We have a couple of discussion items. to say something. George wanted MR. STARK-There was two things. I wanted to comment about the Staff. I can do that any time, but one of the things, what about the elections next week? I wanted to know how everybody felt about that. We talked about this before, and what's going on with that now? Are we going to have the elections next week, or what? - 56 - '---, '--" r-" '~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. OBERMAYER-I think we ought to have them right now. MR. BREWER-I just want to ask, Mark might know. When I asked about three or four months ago to change one of the rules and regulations of our policies, and I was told that it was going to be a pain in the neck because the Town Board had to have a public hearing to change our policies. I don't know if it's true or if it's not true. MR. SCHACHNER-I looked into it, and there's nothing in the document itself, meaning the policy document, that says that there has to be a public hearing. Now, the actual name of the document is the Town of Queensbury Planning Board Rules and Procedures for Planning Board. There's nothing in it that says there has to be a public hearing. Although it appears that the rules themselves were adopted not only by the Planning Board, but also by the Town Board, and we did find record of the one time that we're aware of that they were amended, about a year after they were adopted, and that, evidentally, was done after a public hearing, and it was done by the Town Board, as opposed to the Planning Board. MR. BREWER-That's what I was told when I wanted to add that thing about the expired thing, remember? MR. STARK-Right. MR. BREWER-And Pam said that in order for us to do that, the Town Board has to have a public hearing to change them. I don't care ei ther way. MR. PALING-If it's worthwhile, why not go forward Whether they've got to have a public hearing or not secondary. with it? I think is MR. BREWER-Because we can't do the thing until they have the public hearing, Bob. MR. PALING-All right. your previous idea? Are you talking about the elections or MR. BREWER-No. The change can't be made until after they have the public hearing. MR. PALING-Right, and if it's got to be, so be it. MR. OBERMAYER-Mark, what's your feeling on it? You just advised us that we don't need one. MR. SCHACHNER-Well, let me state at the outset, there's nothing, in the first place, that requires the Planning Board to even have an established set of rules and procedures. I happen to think it's a good idea, and I think that this is generally a good document, but just so we all understand each other, there is no formal requirement of law that this document even exists. So it exists because the Town Board andlor Planning Board decided, back in 1988, that it would be nice to have some formalized rules and procedures. When that occurred back in '88, they were adopted formally by a Planning Board and by a Town Board resolution. There is nothing in the document itself that says that in order to change this document, that anybody has to have any public hearing, but I don't know if anybody wants to get Paul Dusek, I thought somebody talked to Paul Dusek. Bob, didn't you talk to Paul Dusek about this? MR. PALING-Yes. MR. SCHACHNER-The reason I'm throwing him in. - 57 - ~ / ~ - --' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-Wait a minute. Did I talk to Paul Dusek? No, but let me make this suggestion, that whatever we decide to do, we say to the Town Board, this is what we want to do, and then let them decide. If they say they've got to have a public hearing, then have a public hearing, or if they just make a decision and give it back to us, they do. Lets not get hung up on something, whether it's right or wrong. We say to the Town Board, this is our recommendation. Let them take it from there. MR. BREWER-My opInIon is just leave it the way it is. see a need to change it. I don't MR. PALING-Well, Tim, I think where they're now going to try to expire all offices, the end of the year, the calendar year, is a natural thing, that we should get in line and do it at the calendar year, too. Whether it's done this year or next year, I don't care, but I think it should be done eventually that we fall in line with the calendar year. MR. BREWER-The Town Board has their organizational meeting the first of the year, don't they? MR. PALING-I don't know, but I think we should. MR. STARK-I think we owe it to the other two Board members, I don't know where they are tonight, but if they're present next week, maybe we could do it next week. MRS. LABOMBARD-I won't be here next week. MR. OBERMAYER-George isn't here all of January. MR. STARK-Do you feel like having elections tonight? MRS. LABOMBARD-No. MR. PALING-What would the possibility be of calling a special meeting for this purpose only, and discuss the matter and vote on it, and do whatever we decide to do? MR. BREWER-Bob, between now and Christmas, when are we going to have a meeting? MRS. LABOMBARD-Forget it. Can I vote in absentia? MR. SCHACHNER-No. You have to be present. You cannot vote on the telephone. You cannot submit a proxy. MR. OBERMAYER-It's only one vote. What's the plan anyway. Who's going to be what? MRS. LABOMBARD-Jim, I can't go through that again. What do you mean, what's the plan? MR. BREWER-If everyone's here next week, we'll decide. MRS. LABOMBARD-I can't be. MR. PALING-We meet again the 28th. MR. BREWER-Well, the 28th we'll talk about having a meeting the 29th or the 30th. MRS. LABOMBARD-Whatever you guys decide on is fine with me. You have good judgement. MR. BREWER-So we can discuss that next week. - 58 - ", "-- '--" '--' ~../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 12/19/95) MR. PALING-All right. nothing. Then the decision is that we will do MR. BREWER-Okay. Is that it? MR. PALING-Meeting adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Robert Paling, Chairman ... 59 -