1996-02-20
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 20, 1996
'1NI!:>EX1", '~~(\I: I
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subdivision No. 5-83
Country club Manor
Tax Map No. 65-1-5.4, 5.5, 5.6
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subdivision No. 1-1996
PRELIMINARY STAGE
Kenneth Ermiger
Tax Map No. 73~1-4
Sudivision No. 2-1996
PRELIMINARY STAGE
(Cont'd on P. 29)
Leon McCotter
Tax Map No. 134-6-42, 134-1-1
Phasing Revision
Hudson Pointe PUD
Site Plan No. 1-96
Hudson Pointe, Irl~~
Tax Map No. 148-1-2.1
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Site Plan No. 2-96
Perry Noun Associates
Tax Map No.' 611:':"1-37 . 3~!
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1.
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3.
11.
14.
v 20.
31.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING
MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATË SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID
MINUTES.
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(Queens bury Planning Board Meeting ,2/20/96)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 20, 1996
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
GEORGE STARK
JAMES OBERMAYER
TIMOTHY BREWER
CRAIG MACEWAN
ROGER RUEL
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MILLER, MANNIX, & PRATT, JEFF FRIEDLAND
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. PALING-Jim will be talking a little bit about the generic
approval process and the amended SEQRA Regulations and something
about the Planning Staff and Board's record of meetings and all
from last year.
MR. OBERMAYER-Our achievements.
MR. PALING-Our achievements, yes, you could put it that way.
MR. OBERMAYER-That's what I like to hear.
MR. PALING-We'd like to welcome aboard George Hilton, who is an
addition to Jim Martin's staff. He just came fresh from Kansas,
where he occupied a similar position out there, but he's from
Connecticut. So he's got a good combination. So we welcome you,
George.
MR. HILTON-Thank you very much.
MR. PALING-Okay. Then we can go ahead. Now the approval of
minutes, Maria, they didn't put any dates on there. So I assume
we have no minutes to approve.
MS. GAGLIARDI-I believe there were December and January's.
MR. PALING-Okay. Lets do that again next time. You might ask
Pam, okay, about that? I was thinking it was the 16th we were to
approve, of January. If you would ask her about that. Okay. Do
you want to go ahead on Country Club Manor.
OLD BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 5-83 COUNTRY CLUB MANOR DANIEL & ELIZABETH
VALENTE APPLICANT PROPOSES A BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT BETWEEN
LOTS 4, 5 & 6. SECTION A 183-13F REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD
APPROVAL FOR ANY MODIFICATION TO AN APPROVED SUBDIVISION. TAX
MAP NO. 65-1-5.4, 5.5, 5.6
DAN VALENTE, PRESENT
MR. PALING-George, we customarily ask, at this point, if there's
any comment from Staff on this. Did you have anything you wanted
to say or read into the record on this?
MR. HILTON-I have nothing additional to read into the record at
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(Oueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/?0/96)
this point. I believe Jim was going to present this item to you.
I'm not sure if there are any changes.
MR. PALING-All right. Well, I think, h~'ll be'back any minute.
So I think we can just go ahead with any question or,di~cussjons
that the Board might have on this, and we'll maybe 't~lk slowly
until they get here. Is anyone here from the applicant?
MR. VALENTE-My name's Dan Valente, Valente Builders.
owner of all three lots.
I'm the
MR. PALING-Okay, and it's as you show it on the print, the dO,tted
line is the old and the solid is the new, I believe, ri~ht?
MR. VALENTE-Right, and where all the trees are now on one side of
the lot line.
MR. PALING-Right.
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, MR .'1 "VALENT.E -:-what I)él.Pl?ened,w,as I ,'1,~~ rea,dy í t? si,g,q 01>1'I~r t.J)e ilqt, I
think: ,i t'$ 'Nu:fI?ber::~,qur, t,c)~!:~yl s,?n ;ji :II/!i,jf ':" i Ì'I'\'''! "'il/:L:
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MR. PALJ;NG-Four 1$, on the nór,tÞ¡~fs11 c,qr:ger " , I "'\r! " ,<,~',
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,MR .~ALENTE·-T\1at\:'rli1,qrrect.~, Lqt;.FoY!j1),:\epd'Y ~oJsfJ~hf,t~at: l?tÖver
to hlm, and we notlced that when tne plantlngs were planted 10
years ago, that some were on that bi9,lot. So we,~ecide~, before
we turned it over to him, to move a ldt line so all the plantings
were on my lot. Incase we ever sell the piece of property,
there wouldn't be a 'dispute b~tween the two ow~ers on' who owned
the plantings. That's the reason for the, change. The lots are
more than sufficient in size to me~t the re~uirements of the
zoning. So it was just a matter of a formality.
ì U"'lki ¡
MR. PALING-Does anyone on the Board have any questions or
comment~? It looks, pretty routine. Did Jim have any significant
commerit? 1 don't think there is any to make.
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MR. HILtON-No, there isn't.
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MR. OBÈRMAYER-It looks pretty simple.
MR. HILTON-Pretty straightforward.
MR. PALING-Yes. I thi nk we can just go ahead _ There is no
public hearing scheduled, and we doh't need a 5EQRA on this.
MOTION TO APPRÖVE SUBDIVISION NO. 5-83 COUNTRY CLUB MANOR,
Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its adopti¿~, seconded
by George Stark:
As the map is amended. boundary line adjustment betwe~n lots 4,
5, & 6.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 199&, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwari, Mr. ~tark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, M)-. Pal i ng'
NOES: NONE
MR. VALENTE-Than'k you. There is a mylar that we supplied ,to be
signed.
MR. PALING-I think'that'll be ~one, in due course, I guess.
MR. VALENTE-I didn't see you this morhirig.
I brought 'it to one
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
of the girls in the office. I brought it to
morning at eight o'clock, and I'd told her I'd
tomorrow or the day after to pick it up.
the office this
come back either
MR. MARTIN-It's just a matter of Bob coming in and signing it.
Then we're all set.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-I think the fees are all paid on this.
MR. PALING-Okay. I can come by tomorrow.
MR. VALENTE-All right. Thank you very much.
MR. PALING-Okay.
NEW BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1996 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED
KENNETH ERMIGER OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION:
RT. 9, BETWEEN AGWAY AND ANIMAL LAND PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE A
8.4 ACRE COMMERCIAL PARCEL INTO 2 LÖTS OF 5.6 ACRES AND 2.8
ACRES. ÇROSS REFERENCE: SUB. # 13-1995 SP 58-95 TAX MAP NO.
73-1-4 LOT SIZE: 8.4 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
JOHN RÄY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. PALING-George, Jim, do you want to comment on this?
MR. HILTON-I'll go ahead.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 1-1996, Kènneth Ermiger,
Meeting Date: February 20, 1996 "This application for a
Preliminary subdivision was previously heard before the Planning
Board at the September 21, 1995 meeting. The application is
being reviewed once again due to the fact that the Final
Subdivision was not filed at the Warren County Registrar of Deeds
within the time limit outlined in Section 183-13 G2 of the
Subdivision Regulations. This proposed subdivision is a two lot
commercial subdivision. Each lot meets the area and dimensional
requirements outlined in the Ordinance. Lot "A" is currently the
site of Whitney Electronics and what appears to be a single
family residence. At the present time Lot "B" is vacant.
Howev~r, on October 24, 1995 a,site plan ~as approved for a
miniature golf course to belocat~don Lot "B". The subdivision
map indicates that the two northerly drives will be abandoned.
Access for both lots will be from a shared southend drive located
on a common lot line. I would recommend that this be a condition
for approval. It has come to staff's attention that this
application may be in conflict with the Subdivision Regulations,
more specifically Section 183-23C. That section states that no
new lots should have direct access from a regional arterial
unless the frontage of each lot is increased by 100%. However,
because this application is in conformance with the Zoning
Ordinance, the Planning Board has the ability to waive this
requirement from the Subdivision Ordinance in the form of a
resolution. The intent of Section 183-23C may be to limit direct
access of residential subdivisions on arterials which this
subdivision is not. Staff would also recommend that the Planning
Board direct staff, in the form of a resolution, to study Section
183-23C and provide a clear determination of its meaning. The
only other issue is the location of any existing septic systems.
The creation of a new property line should not cause any septic
system to become nonconforming with regard to setbacks. This
should not be an issue because this septic system will be removed
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
from the property. If this is not an issue, I would recommend
approval of this Preliminary Subdivision aþplication."
MR. PALING-Okay, and there's someone here fo~ the applicant?
Would you identify yourself, please.
MR. RAY-My name's John Ray. I'm here on behalf of Ken Ermiger.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Okay. In regard to that conflict
with the Subdivision ordinance, it appears that the way that that
was written may have been that was intended to cover residential
only, but it certainly doesn't state that. As a matter of fact,
it becomes part of the commercial. I ,think two things on this.
One, we can perhaps go along on that basis, but there's another
basis, too. If we look at the way this is laid out, they're
combining two lots with the single access, or a shar~d ~~cess to
it, and even if you double, looked at it as qne lot and doubled
the size, you'd only need 300 feet wide and this is 384 feet
wide, and I think that's another way where I co~ld be comfort_ble
with this as it's being requested.
MR. MARTIN-Just as a point, in regard to the referenc~ð section,
I'm going to go to two different sections. First, YOU know,
obviously Georg~'s reference to Alé3-23C, which' is on Page
A18343, but then also if you look at on the Zoning Co~~, 179~30,
and that's Page 17987, I think what was trying to be d~~¿ here is
when the Ordinance was first revised in '88, they tried to make
the Subdivisi6n Reg's consistent with the Zoning Ordinance about
doubling the lot width was amended in November 2~, '92 to allow a
provision of a shared driveway, and I think it was a mistake on
the part of whoever did that change in "92 that they didn't
follow through and make that same change within the Subdivision
Reg's, keep it consistent, because until George found this the
other day, I, quite frankly, didn~iknowthat ~as in the
Subdivision Regulations, about ,the double the lot width. I only
thought it was in the Zoning Code. .
MR. RUEL-Then there's no need to have a study on that, is there?
MR. MARTIN-Well, I think it should be studied, the true .intent.
MR. RUEL-You recommend that we study this section, and at the
same time, we can grant a waiver?
MR. HILTON-You can grant a waiver because this is in compliance
with the Zoning Ordinance. In addition to that, I would
recommend that you, in the form of a resolution, direct staff to
review the section of the subdivision ordinance that I've
discussed and provide a clear determination to its meaning.
MR. BREWER-Separate of this particular subdivision.
M~. RUEL-It's not clear? I thought it was cle~r.
MR. MARTIN-I think it needs further research.
George.
I agree with
MR. RUEL-It seems to be clear in the zoning.
MR. HILTON-But if you were to read, that' section in the
subdivision ordinance, word for word, it would say that ev~n this
subdivision would need each lot to increase its lot frontage by
100%. For instance, Lot B, which has 150 feet of frontage, would
then have to have 300 feet, and I wasn't here at the tjme, but
the intent may have been fof residential subdivisibns, to
discourage their development on regional arterials~' '
MR. MARTIN-I think what he means by research is w~ can g6 back to
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
the past Subdivision Regulations, see if it was in there, and if
it wasn't, then try and research through the notes and see what
change was made and when, and maybe say why that was introduced.
I don't think that was in the old Subdivision Reg's.
MR. RUEL-But that has no affect on this particular application,
correct?
MR. BREWER-Not if we grant a waiver.
MR. HILTON-Not in our opinion.
MR. PALING-I thiDk it does have, but we've got a way around it.
MR. MARTIN-Right, the shared driveway or shared access point.
MR. PALING-That's right. Then you've got the right width.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-That's recommended in the notes, I think.
MR. BREWER-Yes, it is.
MR. MARTIN-That's what we get for having a new Planner on the
staff, somebody who really looks at the regulations.
MR. HILTON-Well, I'd have to actually congratulate Bob. He
brought it into us and fo~-ced us to look at it.
MR. OBERMAYER-Bob brought it in, Mr. Chairman.
MR. PALING-Yes. Okay, and the septic tank referred to earlier
will be removed, is that correct?
MR. RAY-Yes.
MR. PALING-There's no question there.
have other questions, comments?
Okay. All right.
Do we
MR. RUEL-Actually, I guess we have several conditions, right? A
shared driveway would be one.
MR. PALING-Yes.
driveway.
That's part of their application is a shared
MR. MARTIN-I think any resolution should make reference to a
waiver of 183-23C.
MR. BREWER-Do we have the previous resolution where we approved
this? Maybe we could go right from that resolution. That'll
refresh our memory, and just include this waiver in that, because
wasn't there something about a fence also, or something in there?
MR. MARTIN-See, John did the review on the previous application.
MR. BREWER-Right. There was a couple of things in, there that we
discussed at the meeting.
MR. STARK-That was at the site plan, not for the subdivision.
MR. BREWER-Yes, I'm sorry. That was the subdivision.
came to my mind when we did the.
That just
MR. MARTIN-The site plan approval still stands.
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(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. BREWER-All right, but we could still look at the resolution.
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MR.
move
would
other
HILTON-Right. I have the initial resolution hete that says,
for its adopti6n with the following stipulation, that there
be a shared driveway b~tween Lot A, and ~.That's'the only
stipulation that's mentioned in the r~solution.
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MR. BREWER-Okay.
So the site plan will stand on its own merit.
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MR. MARTIN-That's right.
MR. PALING-Okay. Anybody? Craig?
MR. MACEWAN-Nothing.
MR. PALING-Anybody else? All right. Unless you wanted to add
something, we can go right to the public hearing.
MR. RAY-Nothing else.
MR. PALING-All right. We'll open the public hearing on this
matter, if anyone would care to comment.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
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MR. PALING-Okay. Then I think we ~an go right to a mo~ion. No,
we've got to do a SECRA.
MR. RUEL-Short or Long?
MR. BREWER-Short.
RESOLUTION WHEN D~TERMINAT~ON OF NO SiGNIFICANCE IS MADE
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RESOLUTION NO. 1-199~, Introduced by Cath~Yine LaBombard who
moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel:
WHEREAS, the1"e
application for:
is presently before
KENNETH ERMIGER, and
the
Planning
Bo~rçj .
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has
project and Planning Board action
state Environmental Quality Review
determinedthat th~ Þro~¿sed
is subject to r~v~~w under the
Act. "
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be invo10ed.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is ur¡listE?d in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environme,ntal Cualit')' Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Cueensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the crit~ria
for determining whether a project has a signif¡~ant
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations'for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
MR. MARTIN-The attorney they submitted a Long Form, and we really
need to go through a Long Form. They submitted a Long Form with
the application.
MR. BREWER-Is that required?
MR. MARTIN-That's what they submitted.
MR. RUEL-Who gave them the form?
MR. MARTIN-It's the standard one they get with the. app¡ic~tion
packet. Right, John?
MR. RAY-That's the one that came with the application Þa'cket.
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MR. STARK-Jim, once before when they submitted the widng cine, we
gave the applicant a chance to go out, complete the correct one,
and then biing it back. Remember that?
MR. BREWER-Yes, on two occasions in one night.
MR. OBERMAYER-Does it really matter which one we do?
MR. MART.lN,-It's your d~Siçre4ion as the lead qgent qndertaki ng the
review, :ßÜt a-3 Jeff sàiê:l, they submitted the Long one', and you
really have to go through the Long one, but if he wants to submit
a Short one. .
MR. PALING-Okay. This is an occasional oversight kind of thing.
It just happened?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. PALING-Well, I think, what's the shortest way, going through
the Long Form, I would think.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, 1 would think so.
MR. BREWER-He's going to have to fill it out. So if he's got to
fill something out, why doesn't he just fill out a Short Form and
submit it and we'll go over the short again.
MR. MARTIN-Filling out the short form would be easier, at this
point.
MR. PALING-Rather than just read through it.
MR. RAY-Yes, but where do we stand? Can we do that tonight?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Sure. It'll take you two minutes.
MR. RAY-Have you got a Short Form?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Right here.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Just the front sheet there is your responsibility,
John.
MR. RAY-Okay.
MR. PALING-Okay. SEQRA is done, so to speak.
MR. RUEL-Why don't you take this time to come up with a
resolution to study.
MR. PALING-Yes. We've got to have tw~ motions. I think ~e can
I'
proceed with a motion on this, can't w~? It's goiné to take a
little while to get it together.
MR. STARK-We need a waiver, too.
MR. PALING-Yes. So why don't we proceed. Are you ready to ~ake
a motion on this? Okay. He's formulating a resolu~ipn. The
SEQRA will be done. Then he'll make å resolution. I want to
he~r tb,e res,?~u}io~, t,}ìat,'S ¡i?¡lJ"'J¡: U¡:, Til::,\r-1( "..1'1 ':!' ,t¡
MR!. MARLhN'2TheyJ're j0~t!ki~ri~~'Klto' diE\cuss it!.~~"TK~y':rb "i?~;t ~9ing
to act. I';
MR. PALING-We're looking for the motion that you're making, but
we won't act on it until aftef the SEQRA is do~e.
MR. RUEL-AIl right. I'll make a motioQ to approve Subdivision 1-
1-1996 fo,' Kenneth Ermiger, to subdiv'ide an 8.4 acre parcel into
two lots of 5.6 acres and 2.8 acres, with the following
conditions. One, that access from both lots will. be from a
shared southend drive, located on a common lot line. Second,
that a waiver will be granted for the section that states that no
new lots should have direct access from a regional arterial
unless the frontage of each lot is increased by 100%.
, I
MR. PALING-That the Planning Board will grant the waiver, yes.
MR. RUEL-Right, and, that's all L have.,
MR. MACEWAN-Why don't you change that to say, grant a waiver from
Section A183-23C.
MR. PALING-Good suggestion.
MR. RUEL-Well, I don't know what the whole section , is. 1, thought
it was just that one part.
MR. MACEWAN-That is just that one part.,
MR. RUEL-That's the whole thing? All right. So change that
second one to grant a waiver to Section 183-23C.
MR. PALING-Okay. That was practice. Are we all set? Okay. Now
we've done the SEQRA. Lets vote on it.
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, ~rs"" LaBombard, Mr. Ruel,
Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling ,
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay. Now, the sa~e resolution.
MR. RUEL-All right.
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 1~1996
KENNETH ERMIGER, Introduced by Roger Ruel
adoption, seconded by Georg~ Stark:
, ,
ÞRELIMINARY STAGE
who ,moved for its
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
To subdivide ari 8.4 acre commercial parcel into 2 lots of 5.6
acres and 2.8 acres, with the following two conditions. One,
that access for both lots will be from a shared south end drive
located on a common lot line, and, Two, that he be granted a
waiver to Section 183-23C. The third condition would be that the
existing septic system be removed.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-All right. Now we'd like to have another.
MR. RUEL-I'll make a motion.
MOTION TO RECOMMEND
1ª3~23C TO PROVIDE
R~LATED TO 179-30,
adoption, seconded
THAT THE PLANNING BOARD STAFF STUDY SECTION
A CLEAR DETERMINATION OF ITS MEANING AS
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. RAY-A question before I go. You just passed on the
Preliminary Stage. Would it be possible to waive the requirement
to appear back here next week on the Final Stage?
MR. PALING-Waive the requirements to appear?
MR. BREWER-He doesn't have to appear, does he?
MR. PALING-You don't have to appear.
MR. RAY-You don't have to appear, but could you act on that this
evening I guess is my question.
MR. PALING-No, we won't act on it this evening. It will be acted
on next week.
MR. RAY-Yes. I understand that.
MR. PALÍNG-But you don't have to be here.
MR. BREWER-There's no public hearing or anything.
MR. RAY-I was wondering if you could waive the requirement of
waiting another week and act on it, and act on the Final
application this week, being as how .it was already approved.
MR. STARK-There's no public controversy, Bob.
MR. PALING-There's no public controversy on this.
MR. MACEWAN-But wasn't it only advertised for Preliminary?
MR. MARTIN-Tha,t's a.ll that's neC,e$sary.
MR. PALING-There is no advertising because there is no public
hearing following this.
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(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. RAY-And we have submitted the final application and the fee.
MR. BREWER-What's the difference if we wait another week?
MR. OBËRMAYER-Do it right now. I think it's great.
MR. PALING-Well, do we have any procedural or legal problem
involved with this?
MRS. LABOMBARD-I don't see any problem with it.
MR. RAy'~ActuaTly, \.¡e discuss:~é' it th~( .ía~t.c'>:tiri\e ! _'w'å~'hi~re.
You've got the po~er to waive pr00isions of th~ a#~~i2~tion
process. It's just one more stage in the applicatio~ process.
MR. OBERMAYER-I agree. It would save you a trip.
MR. PALING-Why don't we wait a minute. Just let us hear from our
friends over there, just to be sure.
MR . MACEWAN-- I
subdivisions.
don't have a problem doing simple tWQ lot
There's no engineering. There's nothing involved.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. It's straightforward.
MR. STARK-Bob, there's no problem with that.
the past.
,MR. 'PALtN'G--E;vldehtalI'/, we'~e:",dòMJ':lthis' before~ ~'nd H:.'s þeen
oka y " T h'e~þ is .'0,6 pub 1 i c ¡~q,ryt)2 qV~~,~y i nvo 1 ved . .' ,
, ,,-~". .; , ' , ' . -', _..\ I
MR . BREWE~'-'WhY d9,f¡' f ,we just let,., it go, unti I th'ê, ef)ct: of the
ag~nda o! ~~h~~eV¿Y, ót ~f~er tb¿ n~xt app¡icât¡on'~ftH~Y're
gol ng to 'research 1 t. .',' ,
We've done it in
MR. PALING-Do you guys want a few more minutes?
this until after the next applicant.
We'll just delay
~ ,I ~
,
"
MR. STARK-He's going to want the same thing.
MR. BREWER-Well then we'll have the ariswer by that time. So lets
just go on to the next one or whatever.
MR. PALING-Yes.
both the same.
Lets j~st delay this and we'll maybe do them
MR. OBERMAYER-They might as well decide~ because they~re going to
have to concentrate on the next application.
MR. FRIEDLAND-Yes. I don't see anything in here that prohibits
that at all.
MR. PALING-All right. If it's been dor;e before, vJhy dòn't we do
it.
MR. MACEWAN-!f we make a mistake here,
The worst case we're going to have
resolution and do it again.
it's going to come up.
to do is rescind the
MR. MARTIN-The usual thing for final is that if you have a
condition of Preliminary that the plat has to be changed and your
notes have to be changed on the þlat, then they have to go back,
but the conditions that came out of ýour Preliminary approval are
things that are already on the plat and are a condition of the
project going forward. So I don't see why you can't do it
tonight. It's your discretion.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-Okay. 1 think we should go ahead with a motion. All
right.
MR. MARTIN-I would make reference in your motion to the fact that
a final application has been received and the proper fees have
been paid, and that's why you're willing to consider it, and in
light of the fact that this is really an extenuating circumstance
here, that this was fully approved. It just didn't meet the
filing deadline.
MR. PALING-All right.
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1996 FINAL STAGE KENNETH
~RMIGER, Introduced by Robert Paling who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Craig MacEwan:
With reference to the initial motion for Preliminary approval,
and with note that all the submittals and payments are in order.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark,
Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay. Moving right along.
SUBDIVISION NO. 2-1996 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED LEON
MCCOTTER OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: SR-1A LOCATION: SOUTH
END OF RYAN AVE. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO SUBDIVIDE A 5.22 ACRE
PARCEL INTO 2 LOTS OF 2.464 ACRES AND 2.548 ACRES. CROSS
REFERENCE: AV 43-1995 SUB. 12-1995 TAX MAP NO. 134-6-42, 134-
1-1 LOT SIZE: 5.22 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
LEON MCCOTTER, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, subdivision No. 2-1996, Leon McCotter, Meeting
Date: February 20, 1996 "This application was originally heard
at the August 22, 1995 Planning Board meeting as Preliminary
subdivision 12-1995. The application is being heard again due to
the fact that the Final Subdivision was not filed at the Warren
County register of deeds within the time frame outlined in
Section 183-13G2 of the Town Code. This Preliminary subdivision
represents a two lot subdivision located at the end of Ryan Av.
This property is zoned SR-1A and the lots contained in this
subdivision contain the required area and setbacks for this
zoning district. Lot 2 will be accessed from a forty foot wide
crossing easement on land owned by Niagara Mohawk located between
the two lots. The applicant has received a variance (Area
Variance 43-1995) to build on Lot 2 without the required 40 feet
of road frontage. Their appears to be no other issues involved
with this preliminary subdivision. Keeping in mind that the two
stipulations of Area Variance 43-1995 will be met, I would
recommend approval of this application."
MR. PALING-What are the two stipulations of the Area Variance
that you refer to there?
MR. HILTON-I was just searching for that file. One of them
remember off the top of my head was that Lot 2 would only
one home on it. The other one, I can't locate the file,
can't recall offhand what it was. However, they would be
by them anyway.
I can
have
and I
bound
- 11 -
(Oueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MH. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-I have a question. You mention the fact that Lot 2 will
be accessed from land crossing Niagara Mohawk, between the two
lots.
MR. HILTON-Right.
MR. RUEL-But isn't there also access through Lot 1?
MR. HILTON-Lot 1 already has the required access on a Town road.
Lot 2 didn't, and was befote the Zoning Board for a variance.
MR. RUEL-Okay, that short access
considered the access road to Lot 1,
road there on
as well as Lot 2?
Lot
"1
is
MR. HILTON-Well, it's a public road in front of Lot 1, and then
for Lot 2, it's an access easement. The lahd is owned by Niagara
Mohawk. It's the required width of a Town road, and the ZQning
Board granted a variance to allow that lot to be develo~ed~ith
that access.
MR. RUEL-I see. So Ryan abuts the property?
against the property, Ryan Avenue?
It's right up
MR. HILTON-Ryan, yes. It comes right into Lot 1.
MR. RUEL-And that short strip is part' of the acce§s' to Lot 2,
through NiMo property?
MR. HILTON-At the end of it is the access for Lot 2 also, yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-Is that a new easement?
MR. MCCOTTER-I'm Leon McCotter. I'm the owner. I went through
this and I had your final approval on it. I didn't get it
recorded. That easement has been in effect probably six years.
MR. RUEL-Is this documented, this easement?
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-Did you get the easement?
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-I'm just curious, how difficult was it to get an
easement?
MR. MCCOTTER-It was a big problem. It's quite an undertaking.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. I can imagine it is.
MR. MCCOTTER-The water is the biggest thing.
carry a million dollar liability (lost word).
They want you to
MR. RUEL-So with this easement also through Lot 1, that leaves
triangular section, A1, very awkward little corner there.
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes, it's really useless. Y~s.
MR. RUEL-And that dirt drive will not exist, the dirt drive shown
on the map? " ;
MR. MCCOTTER-Will not exist?
.·1 ¡'.~ -<;11
, !\ II i
MR. RUEL-This one, the curved one.
, "
'1\
i, !
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. MCCOTTER-Yes, it still exists.
MR. RUEL-It will exist?
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-And it'll take off from the end of Ryan Avenue, as well?
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-I see. So, at the end of Ryan then you will' have two
accesses?
MR. MCCOTTER-Right.
MR. RUEL-One going to Lot 2 across NiMo, and the other one going
to, what, an existing building?
MR. MCCOTTER-Right. There's a house and barn on that lot.
MR. RUEL-I don't see it on here.
MR. OBERMAYER-Rog, we've already approved this.
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes, it's been approved.
MR. OBERMAYER-They didn't file the deed.
MR. RUEL-Well, look how firm this will be.
MR. MARTIN-I was going to ask you if you intend on coming in
tomorrow with it signed and submit it to the County.
MR. MCCOTTER-Is that what I have to do, come in tomorrow and have
it done?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, well, Bob signs it, as Chairman, and then you
file it with the County, once it has his signature on it.
MR. MCCOTTER-He signs it now?
MR. MARTIN-No, tomorrow. You have a mylar.
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Bring that in tomorrow, Bob will be in signing plats.
File it with the County. I'll escort you up there.
MR. OBERMAYER-Can Bob just sign this stupid thing tonight?
MR. PALING-No. I wouldn't want to sign it tonight.
MR. MARTIN-No. I'd have you come in tomorrow, have everything
laid out, see that all the fees are paid.
MR. PALING-All right. Comments? Questions?
MR. BREWER-None.
MR. PALING-Lets go to the public hearing. The public hearing is
open on this matter if anyone would care to speak.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
- 13 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-Did you have any other comments or questions?
MR. MCCOTTER-No. My only thing i~, I would lik~ to get a final
on this tonight, too, if I could.
MR. PALING-What kind of a SEQRA did you submit, Long or Short?
MR. HILTON-Long Form.
MR. PALING-Long. Okay.
Ii ¡
MR. BREWER-Give him a Short Form to fill out.
MR. MACEWAN-Who says this Board's not willing to work with
applicants.
MR. MARTIN-Mr. McCotter, you did do your 500 foot notice, right?
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes. I've got all the.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Could yoU give those to George, here.
MR. MCCOTTER-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-That was a sticking point the last time around,
wasn't it.
MR. MCCOTTER-I'm finally getting it do~e right here.
MR. PALING-Okay. Why don't we go on to the ~ext applicant, and
if you'd vacate the table, please, we'll come back, to you when
we're finished. Why don't we go ahead, Cathy, to HudsonPointe.
PHASING REVISION HUDSON ÞOtNTE PUD THE ÞROPOSED REVISION
COMBINES THE OLD PHASES II, III & V INTO A NEW SECOND PHASE. THE
OLD PHASE IV WILL THEN BECOME THE NEW PHASE III. (FOR FURTHER
EXPLANATION, SEE LETTER DATED 1/31/96)
TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. MARTIN-The first item is a revision to the Phasing Plan.
MR. RUEL-Yes, is that part of the same resolution?
MR. MARTIN-No. That would be one consideration, and'thénthe
next would be the site plan.
MR. RUEL-All right. 50 we'd cover phasing ¡irst then.
MR. PALING-And we're going to do them both tonight, yes.
George.
Okay.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Phasing Revision, Hudson pointe, Inc., Meeting
Date: F~bruary 20, 1996 "The applicant is prop~sing to r~vise
the overall phasing plan for the Hudson Pointe PUD. The original
phasing plan called for a total of fiv~ phases for the projects.
The revised phasi ng plan combi nes the old Phases II, III ,& V into
a new phase two. The old phase IV will now beco~e phase III.
The number of overall residential lots within the project will
,-emai n the same at 96. The only difference is the 'number of
phases which will now be three. With this new phasing plan, .over
one half of the remaining homes and approximately 6000,I~neal
feet of road will be built as a part of Phas~ II. Wit~ the pace
of development in Hudson Pointe, this roadway will be built and
maintained by the town without homes along it for some ttme.
Both the Highway and Water Departments have been notified about
- 14 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
this matter. The new phasing plan contains the same number of
total lots and has the same lot configuration as the previous
phasing plan. Any other issues concerning the two remaining
phases of Hudson Pointe will be addressed at the time of final
site plan review. If there are no concerns from the Highway and
Water Departments, I would recommend approval of this revised
phasing plan."
MR. HILTON-The only concern that we had, as staff, would be that
the Highway Department and the Water Department would be taking
care of over 6,000 lineal feet of road, without the benefit of
some homes being located on those roads for some time to come. I
notified both the Water and Highway Departments in the form of a
letter, and have received no response from them. I would take
that to indicate that they don't have any concerns with
maintaining the road, as the development in phase II goes on.
MR. PALING-When did you notify them of it, just roughly?
MR. HILTON-I notified them, well, I have a copy of the letter
that I can dig up for you, if you'd like, it was a week and a
half ago.
MR. PALING-About a week and a half ago.
MR. MARTIN-We did sit with the developer, with Paul Naylor, in a
Preliminary session, and Paul expressed no problem with it at
that time. So, we did raise that question directly, and he's out
of town, I would suspect that's why. He's been on vacation since
early last week. So I would expect that's why there's been no
response back.
I I,MR.,:PALING:-W,ell""built and maintained means they're going to
~bui14~t and plowsnow~, ~hat else is involved?
,"..... "1
, .'! ,.;!' 1
MR ~ 'RUEl -We ll, yoù'v'e got w.:tter t'o ta ~e care of.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. You've got the plowing and probably the
maintenance of the drainage. '
MR. PALING-The drainage, yes.
MR. MARTIN-Vacuuming the drywells out and so on, but other than
that, that's pretty much it.
MR. RUEL-Is there a regulation stating
particular phase must be completed before
started?
what percentage of a
the following phase is
MR. MARTIN-Normally, you would have that, if this were a
conventional subdivision, but given the fact this is a Planned
Unit Development, there is latitude in the phasing plan. It's
really, from what I can read out of the regulations, it's like a
negotiated plan between the developer and the Board, but the
normal approach, in a conventional subdivision is 60 percent of
the prior phase must have Certificates of Occupancy before you
can move into the second phase.
MR. RUEL-That's not the case here.
MR. MARTIN-You're not bound by that here, but that is, if you
want a reference point or a guideline, you could use that for
that purpose, but there's nothing here in a PUD regulation that
that~s a requirement. It's really, like I said, a negotiated
point between you and the developer.
MR. HILTON-And actually I bring up that issue in the next item,
related it~m, the final site plan approval for phase II.
- 15 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Yes. It might be worthwhile to read those notes also,
just to give you some background.
MR. HILTON-At this point, I was just concerned with, you know,
approving or taking some action on the phasing plan, ,and then in
the final site plan review for phase II, we'd get into the bigger
issues.
MR. RUEL-Okay. It's not necessarily part of this.
MR. MARTIN-They are related somewhat, but they're still two
separate actions.
MR. RUEL-Yes. This only has to do with the designation of
phases, at reducing the total numbe+ down to a smaller number, is
that it?
MR. HILTON-Well, the overall lots stay the same,
You'fe increasing the number of lots you'll have
We're changing the number of lots for each phase.
as I've said.
in phase I I .
MR. RUEL-Yes. Perhaps the applicant can give us spme indication
of why he wants to reduce the phases from five to thte~.
MR. NACE-Sure. For the record, my name is Tom Na¢~ with Haanen
Engineering. Dave Michaels is with me, from the Michaels Gr6up.
Basically, I'll let Dave speak to some of the underlying of, why
they wanted to combine phases. Basically, we've'discussed 'this
with Paul Naylor, as Jim related. There is a little bit more
road in the new phase II than there was in phase I. It's very
close. I think there was within a couple hundred feet ,of the
same amount of road of phase II as phase I. Dave', ,if you want to
add a little bit as far as why.
DAVE MICHAELS
MR. MICHAELS-Well, the nature of the whole concept approval was
it was a Planned Unit Development, and the concept that we had
coming in was to offer three distinct product types, one being a
one third acre lot, one on a half acre, and then the larger lots,
the one acre plus, another type of product. So what we really
have here is almost three different neighborhoods, three type of
housing, three subdivisions almost within one, which is the
advantage of this kind of approval. It also opens up the market
to different price ranges and different types of homes, which is
what our goal has been. Now in the first phas8, you know, we had
our model in. Right now, we either have closed or under
agreement, under construction, 20 lots of the 29. We're really
70 percent sold and closed out already. With pending closings,
we anticipate, if this phasing goes through, we were to get our
pavement, the roads in and dedicated for the new phase II some
time in June, which we think would be realistic, by that time,
I>Je'll be at a poi nt, selli ng prodl,).ct, that we'll be out of
product. We'll need more of what we're offering in the one third
acres, which are the continuation where you see the number two.
In addition, we've already done pre-marketing, and have major
in'terest, via questionnai res and buyer feedback from all the
people coming in, people very much interested in the half and the
one acre lots, and we basically have been telling those people
that we're going to be in a position, we hope, to announce the
product and the pricing some time this April. So, the timing,for
us is such that we plan on opéning, if we can work the things out
on the advanced approval where we can open up two actditional
product types, and right now with our successingwith Phase I,
we're going to be in need of additional inventory just on the
current product line. In addition, some of the advantages here,
too, is that we're able to, there's only like 100 more feet of
road. We're able to loop that boulevard load system right around
- 16 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
to have a good highway network right out of the box. You don't
have to put in a temporary cul-de-sac or something like that,
which wasn't even shown on the preliminary plan, which probably
would have had to have been a concern of the Board, something to
deal with. So what it'll do is it'll tie around a loop road, for
b~tter egress, ingress and egress. It will also allow us to get
into the main open space access parking lot at an advanced
schedule from the anticipated original start, because where you
see at the bottom, you can hardly read it, but where it says the
day care center, that's really where the main amenity area is
going in, and that is the site of the parking lot that's going to
be provided to the Open Space Institute to access their lands.
In addition, we have the one playground in which we installed in
phase I where it's planned to be as part of this year,
realistically by year end, is get significantly underway with the
amenities planned fo)- the area right there, which'll be the
baseball field and the tennis courts, and some of those
improvements, which again is sort of advancing things along, but
we feel it's the sales, success, the interest that we have in the
new product certainly justifies itself.
MR. MARTIN-I had a question about Old Sherman Island Road. I
know there was discussion about what would be done with that. I
would imagine that would also be included in this phase. Wasn't
the pavement supposed to be torn up?
MR. NACE-Well, in the original, or existing phasing plan, we were
anticipati~g reusing a section of Sherman Island Road in order to
meet the Town's requirements for a maximum length on dead end
roads, okay. So, in the original phasing plan, when we came in
with this phase II, which is right here, we were going to have to
open up Hudson Pointe Boulevard over to Sherman Island, come back
up Sherman Island, and use this as a temporary loop. Now by
constructing this entire loop, we don't have to do that. We can
shut Sherman Island Road off permanently. It allows it to be
turned off earlier for access to the NiMo site. They can use the
other entrance off of Corinth Road, and it makes it cleaner.
MR. MACEWAN-What will you be doing to the road? What will you be
doing to Sherman Island Road, to abandon it?
MR. NACE-To go back to the original developer's agreement, in the
PUD, and look at that. I believe we were tearing up sections
right adjacent to the loop road to Hudson Pointe Boulevard,
putting up berms.
MR. MACEWAN-That's already done.
MR. NACE-Up here?
MR. MACEWAN-Yes. It has been done a long
that what we had talked about in one
tearing up the road itself per se, but it
putting down topsoil and seeding it over.
time ago, but I thought
of our meetings wasn't
was just seeding over,
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I can't recall if it was tearing it up or
putting soil on it and seeding it.
MR. PALING-I don't think it was tearing it up.
MR. MACEWAN-Can we get you to agree to do that?
MR. NACE-Whatever was in the original agreement.
MR. MACEWAN-I
formalized.
don't believe there was
ever an agreement
MR. PALING-Yes.
- 17 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. RUEL-We wanted them to tear it up, initially, but then they
decided they would cover it and seed it. That's wh~t L remember.
MR. NACE-I believe you're right, Roger.
MR. PALING-Yes. I know there's an agreement there, and I don't
dare to say what it is specifically, and I don't think we can ask
them to go beyond what's already been agreed to.
MR. NACE-I think that's already been addressed.
MR. MARTIN-There's probably
abandoning that road, too.
some
protracted process
for
MR. NACE-That's correct, and I believe that's underway, already.
MR. MARTIN-I know it was for that short section from the cul-de-
sac south, right where the berm area was yOU just pointed to,
that was done, that section, and then that same thing would have
to be done for the remaining.
MR. NACE-Right.
MR. RUEL-The recent acquisition by Q~eensbury of land alon~ the
Hudson, green acres or whatever you call it, is it close to this
area or not?
MR. MARTIN-What's being discussed is Open Space Institute is
looking at purchasing the Faith Bible Church property, which is
the next property, I guess you would say from the north,
adjoining the Open Space land, somewhat off the map, right in
there, but that's not been sealed or committed to, but that's
being investigated.
MR. RUEL--I was just wondering, would this have any affect on your
plans, as far as recreational activity or parklánd or anything
like that?
MR. MARTIN-I think the only affect would be it would accelerate
it, by viYtue of the fact that we'd have a dedicat~d permanent
access to the trail system earlier than we would have under the
old phasing plan.
MR. MACEWAN-How do you feel about opening up this much of the
development this soon?
MR. MARTIN-My standpoint, 98% of the planning work is done.
We're in an implementation phase now. I, personally, like the
idea of having permanent acces~ to the trail system earlier, and
I'd defer to the Highway Superintendent on the ácceptance of the
road. I was there for that meeting with Tom. He indicated he
had no problem with it. I'd defer to him on that aspect, but I
do like the idea of the permanent access to the trail system.
MR. OBERMAYER-You mentioned that you're going to construct the
day care centerlrecreational area earlier. You say construction
will also mean that the day care center/recreation area will be
available for earlier development. Does that mean you're going
to start construction on that earlier, the day care center?
MR. MICHAELS-The day care 'building, we're going to wait until
'97, because we're going to need more residents. There's 91
residents, total, that would be in the community, and to justify
the.
MR. OBERMAYER-So really that statement then isn't necessarily,
you're not going to construct the day care center any earlier
than you had originally anticipated?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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MR. MICHAELS-Well, it will be earlier. Originally it would have
been probably '98. This way, we're going to be able to do it in
'97, but the other amenities that will be accessed there, which
is the tennis court and the baseball field and the parking
facilities, the playground lot, we'll be able to get all those
underway.
MR. OBERMAYER-In '96?
MR. MICHAELS-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-That will be completed this fall?
MR. MICHAELS-Yes.
MR. OBERMAYER-Is it going to be a lighted softball field?
MR. MICHAELS-I don't know. We haven't gotten into the details.
MR. NACE-What you have in front of you is just a concept plan.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. There's a real need in the Town of
Queensbury for night time recreational facilities.
MR. RUEL-Bob, does this have anything to do with phasing?
Shouldn't we resolve the phasing?
MR. PALING-All right. Lets stick to phasing first. Right.
MR. NACE-I think the relevance to phasing is that it allows the
Michaels Group to get in and develop these amenities sooner,
especially with the access to the Open Space Institute land. I
spoke with them today, Dan Luciano down there, and they had been
anticipating having to put in a temporary access point back in
this location somewhere, and that would have been wasted work,
okay, because once the loop road is finally opened up, they would
have had to replace that. So they're very happy now that they
might be able to put it in once and be done with it, and he has
looked, there was some question that arose from Planning Staff
regarding the location of the parking area, and the configuration
of the parking area for that access to the OSI land. Dan has
reviewed his concept plan you see in front of you, and he has
agreed that that parking configuration is what he will go with.
MR. RUEL-I have a question. In your estimation, how long do you
think that 6,000 feet of road will be idle, with no homes on it?
MR. NACE-Probably no longer than the almost 6,000 feet that was
built last summer, and now has 20 lots on it.
MR. RUEL-Are you talking months?
MR. NACE-If that.
MR. RUEL-Yes? Okay.
MR. MICHAELS-Yes, well, this year in our plans on the cul-de-sac,
which is going to open up the half acre lots, 14 half acre lots.
We anticipate actually closing, you know, Certificates of
Occupancy, this year, conservatively four to six homes based on
(lost words), and then on the balance of the one third acre lots
that will be opened up, probably three to four closings this
year, but that means CO's. That also would mean that there will
be a number of homes under construction, too, in process.
MR. RUEL-That's in phase II?
MR. MICHAELS-Correct, and then on the larger lots, we anticipate
- 19 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
one to two CO's this year, and probably at least two more under
construction by the end of the year. So we're going to open up
all three areas.
MR. PALING-We wish everyone were as busy as you are with this
project. All right. Are there anymore phasing comments,
questions on this? I think we can, there is no public hearing on
this part of it. So we can go directly to a motion.
,
MOTION TO APPROVE PHASING REVIS!ON FOR HUDSON POINTE PUD TO
COMBINE THE OLD PHASES II, III, AND V INTO A NEW SECOND PHASE.
THE OLD PHASE IV WILL THEN BECOME THE NEW PHASE III., Introduced
by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine
LaBombard:
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer,
Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling
NOES; NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
MR. MARTIN-Could I have some agreement as to wh~n we could get
copies to distribute for .the new phasing plan, Tó~? The Highway
Department will want them, probably the Water DeÞa~tment.
MR. NACE-Within a week?
MR. MARTIN~That's fine. Whatever's convenient fòr you. I'd say
10 copies.
MR. NACE-Now, are you talking about just the phasing plan, or the
detailed plans?
MR. MARTIN-Don't they already have those?
MR. NACE-Well, y~s, but the phase line has changed.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
changed phase line.
I just want
Okay.
them to have some
record of the
MR. PALING-All right.
SITE PLAN NO. 1-96 TYPE I HUDSON POINTE, INC. OWNER: SAME AS
ABOVE ZONE: P.U.D. LOCATION: SHERMAN ISLAND ROAD, EAST OF
CORINTH ROAD. PROPOSAL IS FOR FINAL APPROVAL OF PHASE II OF THE
P.U.D. PHASE II CONSISTS OF 48 LOTS - 19 1/3 ACRE LOTS, 14 1/2
ACRE LOTS, 14 ONE ACRE LOTS AND 1 THREE ACRE LOT. TAX MAP NO.
148-1-2.1 LOT SIZE: +1- 140 SECTION: 179-58
TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. PALING-Okay. There are no changes in the number of lots in
the total development. ,There is no change in any lot by itself.
We have been over just about everything that's within this. So,
do you have any other comments?
MR. HILTON-Yes. I have a few more comments.
STAFF INPUT
Not,es fr om
Me<-?ting D'ate:
plan review for
phase contained
staff, Site Þlan No. 1-96, Hudson pointe, Inc.,
February 20, 1996 "The applicant is seeking site
the second phase of Hudson Pointe PUD. The first
a total of 34 single family lots. Of thosÓ lots,
- 20 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
2/20/96 )
a total of 16 (47%) have received building permits. This final
site plan contains 48 residential lots, one commercial lot which
will be used for a day care center and an access point for the
trail system which will be located throughout the development.
Staff has the following comments about the site plan for Phase
II. Staff is concerned about continuing the development of Phase
I once Phase II is approved. Measures should be taken to ensure
that this development occurs at a steady pace. As a result,
staff would recommend that before any building permits are issued
for Phase :r I~ that at leà:st 60% of the hOffi.es in Phase I obtai n
bui ldi ng permits. .. Thi$-, .is, a requirement of th'e town's
SubdivisionÒrdinance,and'staff feels that it is an appropriate
step to ensure the complete development of Phase I. This site
plan also proposes over 6000 lineal feet of roadway which will be
dedicated to the town. I have contacted the Highway Department
and the Water Department to see if they have any concerns about
maintaining the roadway contained in Phase II given the fact that
the road may not contain any homes for some time. If both
departments do not have a problem allowing this amount of roadway
in this phase then the planning department is comfortable with
this part of the site plan. Phase II also indicates an OSI trail
access point on the proposed day care center lot. At this time
st.aff has not seen any final plans showing the parking lot layout
and landscaping for this area prior to approval of this site
plan. In addition, staff would recommend that any access to the
proposed parking lot would be located directly across from the
common lot line of lot 82 and 83. This would minimize glare into
the homes which will one day occupy these lots. The lot that
will be used as a day care center is being shown in Phase II, but
no plans are being submitted for approval at this time. Staff
would recommend a stipulation that the applicant seek final site
plan approval prior to the issuance of a building permit for the
proposed day care center."
MR. RUEL-So both the Highway Department and the Water Department
are out of this now?
MR. HILTON-We have contacted them and we have never received any
concerns from them, and based on Jim's prior discussion with Paul
Naylor, we feel that. they're supportive.
MR. MARTIN-I don't anticipate any question. It's just
accelerating the schedule again. They have all the plans for
water connections and so on from the previous Preliminary
approval on the entire site.
MR. PAL,.1Nq-There' seemed to be' two thi ngs
~addiessed. One is the 60 percent factor of
other'ii the OSI, trail layout and parking'lót.
ask; the applical}t, to ,a,ddressboth of tho~7HSf~
they've addressed one'o{ them already. '
MR. NACE-Okay. Lets, I guess, take the parking area first. We
have in front of you a schematic plan. It's not a final plan.
It doesn't include grading or drainage. We would ask that this
whole recreation area, obviously, you're going to want to see
some sort of a site plan on them. We'd ask that the parking for
OSI be included in the site plan for that parcel, and not by
subdivision to Phase II approval for the lots. OSI has agreed
today that the configuration you have here in front of you is
what they will use. I believe that the plan of Jim Miller shows
the lot line opposite, which is what George had pointed out about
headlights. So I guess we'd ask that the parking lot, 'we'd be
willing to address, get a site plan in front of you with grading
and drainage, but we'd prefer that that not be tied to Phase II
approval of the site plan. The other issue is the buildout. I
think that one thing that has to be taken into account is that
there are five lots here that the developer does not own and
that should be
Phase I, and the
Perhaps we could
although I think
- 21 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
control the development on. Those were a part of a package that
was transferred to MacDonald in his dealing to get the Yoad out
to the Corinth Road in this location on MacDonald's old
subdivision. So these five lots 1-eally, the developer here has
no control over when those are developéd. So we take thé total
remaining 29 lots, the percentages look a little different, and
when you consider that what has been done in Phase I has been
done, since the middle of that summer, we think it shows a record
that the new Phase II will be built out in fairly quick fashion.
MR. OBERMAYER-What's the percentage?
MR. NACE-I don't have a calculator in front of mé, the 29?
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. What percentage are yo at right ~ów?
MR. NACE-Twenty.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Twenty out of thirty is sixty-seven percent. So
twenty out of twenty-riine is about.
MR. RUEL-It's 46 now, isn't it?
MR. MICHAELS-Right now we have closed, under agreement, or
actually under construction, a total of 20 of the 29.
MR. OBERMAYER-You're constructing actually 20?
MR. MICHAELS-No. Some are under agreement, but we haven't gone
in for building permit.
MR. RUEL-In any event, the 60 percent does not apply to PUD.
MR. PALING-But it's in excess of that, from these figures.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. It's more than 60 percent.
MR. PALING-He's got two thirds committed, lets say.
MR. RUEL-The document ~ read said 46 percent was completed.
MR. MICHAELS-We have 47 percent that have received actual
building permits.
MR. OBERMAYER-Well then you wouldn't have any objection with the
60 percent, then. If you've already got them in the bag, you
don't mind 60 percent then.
MR. RUEL-I don't think there's a problem there at all.,
MR. PALING-I don't think so.
MR. OBERMAYER-Well, if they've got them in the bag, then why
can't they agree to 60 percent?
MR. RUEL-Even if it was 47, I don't think it's a problem.
MR. PALING-Well, 60 percent is not part of the PUD ányway.
MR. OBERMAYER-I know.
MR. NACE-No. It's an extra bit of paperwork we'd rather not have
to, when they get ready to start, they'd like to get a building
permit to open a model, to construct a model, in .Phase II, and
we'd like to do that as soon as we have access back into the new
area in Phase II.
MR. MARTIN-Where do you anticipate the model being built?
- 22 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MICHAELS-The model would be built on, we haven't decided on
which side of the road, but you see the cul-de-sac where the
Roman Number Two is, to the top? It would be one of the first,
either the first, second lot on the left, or the first lot on the
right. It would be near the front. We may not go right on the
corner. We may go one lot in.
MR. MARTIN-And that's for the half acre lot?
MR. MICHAELS-That would be just to get a model underway.
MR. MACEWAN-When would you plan
concern about the site plan for
system and the day care?
on wanting to address staff's
the parking area for the trail
MR. NACE-Well, the day care center may be a year away yet, okay,
so that the final plans, we'd rather just address the parking lot
in any of the recreation facilities that are going to be
constructed first, and then site plan, and then the day care
center, we'll leave a space for that out there.
MR. MARTIN-So you're saying
dedicated day care center,
you'd like two site plans for
and the OSI entrance, and the
that commercial area, then, that's
recreation area and OSI entrance,
that, one for the recreation areas
other for the day care center?
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. MARTIN-So then you're not asking for approval on that
tonight?
MR. NACE-Correct.
MR. RUEL-Either one of them?
MR. NACE-That's correct.
MR. RUEL-Okay. So you will seek site plan approval when you're
ready, on these two items?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Two separate site plans.
MR. MICHAELS-And the day care, there
into that, in terms of the actual
are.
has to be a lot of research
facility and what the needs
MR. MARTIN-The only thing we have is a 75 child limit, I believe.
That's only reference made.
MR. OBERMAYER-Back on the 60 percent, you know, you're telling
you have 60 percent already under contract, but then you don't
want to agree to the 60 percent.
MR. NACE-The way your regulations for subdivision reads, it's 60
percent with CO's, before you can get the next building permit.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay.
MR. NACE-Okay, and the timing of that just may throw us off, even
though there are enough lots that are committed. We may not have
the CO's on those in time to be where we want to be when we want
to start the model for Phase II.
MR. MARTIN-I think staff's position was 60 percent building
permit, not 60 percent CO.
- 23 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, 60 percent building permit.
MR. MICHAELS-This is similar to subdivision regulations requiring
a Certificate of Occupancy.
MR. OBERMAYËR-Which is different than a CO.
MR. MARTIN-The staff's position is you are cutting them a little
slack.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-You're probably giving them another two or three
months by doing that.
MR. MACEWAN-When would you want to see a site plan for this thing
for the t'"ail system, consider ing the trail system" P~Ht of the
reason for opening thi~ up is to get access back there.
MR. MARTIN-If we ~an get a óömmitment by mid-summer, I think that
would in keeping with OSI's timetable.
MR. NACE-Now you say, "trail system". ~e're talking about just
the access to the trail system, not the trail system itself,
because that's OSI's, they're building that.
MR. MACEWAN-You don't have anything to do with tH~ building of
the trail system.
MR. NACE-That's right. That's OSI.
MR. MACEWAN-We're talking about just the parking area to gain
access to the trail system
MR. NACE-Certainly within a couple of months.
MR. PALING-And where would the playground plan fit into that,
same schedule?
MR. MICHAELS-As far as submission for the site plan review? Yes.
MR. PALING-It would be on the same, you'd do it the same time.
MR. MICHAELS-That would be right included with it.
MR. PALING-Oka/.
MR. OBERMAYER-Good.
MR. MICHAELS-A couple of additional issues that !'d like to bring
up, and that is that we would like to propose, on the final
submitted plan, we've only showed the street lighting that we've
installed, the lanterns, basically ending at the, where the
boulevard itself stopped, at the entrance to Phase I. That's
'where the lanterns stopped. In the submission's final appt6ved
plans, we did not contemplate extending it any further than that.
Thi idea was to create the entrance with the split of the road
was. We're now looking into what the feasibility would be of
extending those lanterns. It would be the responsi~ility of the
Homeowners Association, as it is currently, along thé entire
boulevard, not make a median. The/'d be on one side or the
other.
MR. RUEL-Good idea.
MR. MICHAELS-Then provide the lighting and everything else.
MR. MARTIN-You mean the entire loop road, Dave?
- 24 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MICHAELS-Yes. Now the spacing, you know, because of the cost
and things like that, we may go a little farther on the spacing
than what we did in the main entrance coming in, but we would
like to carry that on as a theme, and we're researching that
right now, in terms of cost and layout, and another issue, just
this past week, I met with adjacent owner Cathy Arcuri, on Lot
31. She called the office this week on Monday and expressed some
concerns in terms of her home, which that map shows as vacant.
They built a home and moved in within the past year, year and a
half, and she expressed to me some concerns that some of our half
acre lots were directly contiguous to her property. It is wooded
and it is pines, but she felt that there was no restrictions in
terms of the homeowner could theoretically come in and cut their
yard right up to the property line, and (lost words) buffering to
her property, and over the phone with her yesterday, I met with
her husband and went out to their site. I expressed to them that
we would propose and make it a matt~r of record at this meeting
that for two of the lots, 53 and 54, that we would deed restrict
those lots as undisturbed, so that the homeowners could never
take any trees down, but leave a natural buffer, and restrict our
lots, basically, and then the next lot over, we would put into
effect the 20 foot buffer zones. So, you know, meeting with her,
that's something that we're going to want to do, and make as a
matter of record.
MRS. LABOMBARD-That's very nice.
MR. OBERMAYER-You're not putting sidewalks in this development,
are you, sidewalks?
MR. MICHAELS-No.
MR. RUEL-This woman that talked about the buffer zone, did she
have a buffer zone on her property?
MR. MICHAELS-No.
MR. STARK-No. She clear cut it, Rog.
MR. RUEL-She clear cut right up to the line?
MR. MICHAELS-Yes, but I don't think that would be her intent.
MR. MARTIN-Could we just have a notation to that effect, then, on
the plat.
MR. RUEL-What was that, 53 and 54?
MR. MARTIN-Three lots, actually. 53 and 54 would carry a 30 foot
no cut zone, and 55 would be a 20 foot.
M~. PALING-And what are 53 and 54?
MR. NACE-Thirty feet.
MR. RUEL-Thirty feet.
MR. PALING-Okay. Staff, if I understand you right, you are still
concerned with the 60 percent factor, you want to see a
limitation there, in some form?
MR. MARTIN-I think building permits would be reasonable, instead
of co. I could see the concern over that, because we have
building permits, there's a commitment there to build and
construct and occupy. usually.
MR. PALING-And you would hold building in new Phase II until 60
percent building permit is?
-, 25 -
(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Well, what we do as a matter of course is, and this is
true of any subdivision, we allow one home to be built, even
prior to the road being installed.
MR. PALING-Yes, okay.
MR. MARTIN-As a matter of policy, that's don~, and that probably
would accommodate their model, getting that underway. That's
what they did in Phase 1. So we would allow that as a matter of
course anyhow, but then after that, we would like to seè 60
percent building permit, I think is reasonable.
MR. NACE-BaSed on the 29 lots that they have control over?
MR. PALING-It would not include the MacDonald part of it, in my
mind. Right?
MR. MARTIN-That's up to the Board.
MR. PALING-I wouldn't think it would. I wouldn't think we'd hold
them responsible for that. Sixty percent of the balance of Phase
I with building permits.
MR. MICHAELS-Yes, that's no problem, because we're really going
to be there right now with what we have.
MR. PALING-All right.
MR. MICHAELS-Plus I think that with the number of lots in Phase
I, one or two building permits is going to put you over, the 60
percent, come pretty close to that.
MR. MARTIN-I just signed one today.
figured in your figures for tonight.
I don't know if that was
'J
MR. t1ICHAELS-No.
MR. MARTIN-And do we have a date of commitment for a submission
of a site plan for the trail system and the recreation area?
MR. NACE-How about within 60 days?
MR. MARTIN-Sounds agreeable.
MR. OBERMAYER-That'$ good.
MR. MARTIN-Say by the end of Aþril? Why don't we say by the
April submission date, Tom, the last Wednesday in April?
MR. NACE-'Sure.
MR. PALING-The last Wednesday is April 24th.
MR. RUEL-For what?
MR. MARTIN-The trail system and the recreation area.
, '
MR. NACE-Just the recrei.':\tion area, the trail access parking.
MR. PALING-And parking, not the trail.
comments, questions?
Okay.
Any other
MR. MARTIN-Now this lighting, Dave. How would you propose to, is
this something you're going to do or investigate?
MR. MICHAELS-Yes. It's something, in fact, we're meeting our
electrician on tomorrow morning, an idea. What would yqu like to
see me do?
- 26 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-I just want to have something so we know it works with
all the other utilities that have to go in and all that.
MR. MICHAELS-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-That's what I'm looki ng for. We don't
requirement one way or the other on the lighting. I'd
like to see it. I think it's great you're doing it.
looking for is to make sure it fits in all right with
other utilities going in along the side of the road.
ha ve a,
actually
What I'm
all the
MR. MICHAELS-Okay. What I'll do is when I get the preliminary
layout I'll come in and meet with you and show you, and see.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. We can sit down with Tom Flaherty and Paul
Naylor and make sure it all fits.
MR. MICHAELS-Right, and we can then revise it.
MR. MARTIN-You want to say by that same time in April?
MR. MICHAELS-Yes.
MR. PALING-April, same date. Okay. All right. We've got a lot
of provisions here. You've got them too, Roger?
MR. RUEL-Yes, I think so.
MR. PALING-Okay, between the two of us, we'll get there. All
right. At this point, why don't we open the public hearing on
this matter. Is there anyone here that would care to speak on
this matter?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
TIM BREWER
MR. BREWER-Tim Brewer, Candleberry Drive. Just a couple of
points. I would agree with staff that 60 percent should be
upheld, and agree with Tom that subdivision is not part of the
PUD, so that shouldn't be calculated. One big concern I have is
with the borrow pit area, at the end of Sherman Island Road. As
recently as, well, since they began they've been putting brush
and trees what not down in there. I was told that it was a
temporary measure, that the stuff would be taken out of there.
It's not been taken out of there. I think with the addition of
this phase and the amount of stuff that's going to be taken out
of there, as far as trees and brush and what not, that that stuff
would be taken out of the borrow pit. I don't know, as far as
the Ordinance, what kind of regulation there is, Jim, but I can
just envision that if they're going to cut 6,000 feet of road,
they're going to have to some place to put all the trees and
stuff that they take down. I don't think it's a good idea to put
it there. I think you should address that. I guess that's all I
have to say. I just want you to consider that point.
MR. PALING-I hate to be dumb, but what pit is this you're talking
about?
MR. BREWER-It's at the very end of Sherman Island Road.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I know where you mean.
MR. MARTIN-It's the pit which, when they built the dam, they took
the sand out of there to build the dam.
MR. PALING-Okay.
- 27 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-And what's· been happening. I don't think all the
stuff went there, but at least some of it~ they've been storing
stumps, brush, limbs~ wood chips down in there. John Goralski's
been keeping an eye on it. We just, I think, talked to John
Michaels probably a week or two again to remind him that.
MR. BREWER-I guess I would like an answer as to when' it's going
to be taken out of there.
MR. .M~C~AE,L.S-;r.hi~ spr~ng, w€~at~~F Rermittin~,:, we'rego~Q~ tq be
takIng In a s'tumþ machIne and fIr'st grind all the 'stumps up,'and
then get the deb~is out of there.
MR. BREWER-You're not going to leave any of it there?
MR. MICHAELS-No. It's going to beâl1' ground up, and after it's
all ground up, then we're going to get that trucked off f:3ite.
We've gone over this with John.
MR. PALING-Okay. John knows about this, or we could put a date
on it, too.
MR. MARTIN-It's part of Phase II, technically speaking.
part of the Phase II site plan.
It is
MR. PALING-Okay. Would you volunteer a date that it would, the
borrow pit would be cleaned up?
MR. MICHAELS-I would say we should say it'll be simultaneously
with road dedication, or before.
MR. PALING-When is that?
MR. MARTIN-They were looking for June, for road dedibation.
MR. MICHAELS-Why don't we say no later than July 15tH.
MR. PALING-All right. July 15th. Okay.
MR. BREWER-How about making that contingent upon road dedication,
that that area be cleaned out.
MR. PALING-Well, we're going t,c> make it, a requirement,tl)at it
happen b)l that date, but I dó'ìl ' t wa nt to tie it' 'to sornet.hi ng .
It's a requirement like any other requirement. They'll be held
to it.
MR. BREWER-If you tie it to the road dedication, then· they can't
dedicate the road until it's cleaned up.
MR. MACEWAN-It would be in their own best interest to
cleaned up anyway, because some of the lots and part
road's probably going to infringe on that borrow pit.
get it
of the
MR. STARK-The applicant agreed to that, so fine.
MR. PALING-Well, he's agreed to clear it out by July 15th.
That's good enough for me.
MR. OBERM,A.YER-It's fine with, me.
, '
"
MR. PALING-Okay. Is there anyone else who would care to comment
on this? Okay. If not, then the publich~àring is cio~ed.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-Okay.
anyone, staff?
)- ¡
Do we havé any 6ther comments or questions from
Roger, do you want to take a shot at a motion?
- 28 -
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(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
We've got to do a SEQRA.
MR. OBERMAYER-Why do we have to do a SECRA?
MR. MARTIN-That's right. We did an Environmental Impact
Statement on this. I'm sorry.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 1-96 HUDSON POINTE. INC.,
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by
George Star k:
For Final approval of Phase II of the PUD, with quite a few
conditions. One, allow building in Phase II when 60 percent of
the building permits have been issued for Phase I. Two, lots 53
and 54 will be left undisturbed by 30 feet with a no cut zone,
and lot 55, with a 20 foot no cut zone for a buffer zone, on the
northern property line, and the plan will reflect that. The
applicant will seek site plan approval for the parking lot layout
and the recreational center. That they'll seek a separate site
plan review for the day center. The recreation and access area
plan to be submitted by April 24th. Revised plan to reflect new
additional lighting by April 24th. Brush, trees, etc. will be
removed by July 15th from the borrow pit area.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote: ,
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
MR. MARTIN-Bob, you've got Mr. McCotter there.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. Lets take care of Mr. McCotter first.
MR. PALING-Yes.
(subdivision No. 2-1996 Leon McCotter Cont'd)
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-Do you have to read that Short Form now?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Did we?
MR. RUEL-No, you didn't.
MR. PALING-We didn't do anything.
MRS. LABOMBARD-So we
Okay. We're going
approval, here, and
SEQRA.
have to read it right now, for Mr. McCotter.
to continue with Mr. McCotter's Final
we're going to do the Short Form of the
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 2-1996, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who
moved for its adoption, seconded by
WHEREAS, t he1- e
application for:
is presently before
LEON MCCOTTER, and
the
P lånni ng
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
- 29 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
h!ON!;:
, 'f
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Jniisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the crit~ria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Sec~ion
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will havs no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of nón-significance or
a negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly
vote:
adopted this 20th day
,of Feb}~uarY' 1996,
Þx tl]e following
. 'r.
1(',,('( ;
,I ' ',fj, " , ' '!' ~ ,,". . '1 .;'
AYES: , Mr. MÇicEwan, Mr., Star k, MY. O~t1rmaYèr\ Mr~.' 'L,aBombard,
Mr. Ru:e¡, r-h·' .F;',5id i n9' , '
NOES: NONE
í!. ","j
,,'; ). r'
'r~'" 1
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
, ¡
.~, .^.- ¡
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 2-96
MCCOTTER, Introduced by Roger Ruel who
seconded by James Obermayer:
PRELIMiNARY STAGE LEON
moved for it~¡ adqption,
To subdivide a 5.22 acre parcel into 2 lots of 2.464 acres and
2.548 acres.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark,
Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
MR. MARTIN-He'd like Final.
MR. OBERMAYER-You have to give him Final, too, so he doesn't have
to come back.
MR. PALING-Okay. If we did it before, we can do it again. There
was no public controversy on this.
MR. MARTIN-No conditions on the Preliminary approval, right?
- 30 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
2/20/96 )
MR. PALING-No, no conditions.
MR. RUEL-So we can make a new motion?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-For Final.
MR. PALING-Yes.
MOTION TO APPROVE SUBDIVISION NO. 2-96 FINAL
MCCOTTER, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for
seconded by Robert P~ling:
STAGE LEON
its adoption,
To subdivide a 5.22 acre parcel into 2 lots of 2.464 acres and
2.548 acres.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark,
Mr. Obermayer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
MR. MARTIN-I better see that plat tomorrow and you better go up
to the County with it.
MR. MCCOTTER-Thank you.
$ITE PLAN NO. 2-96 TYPE: UNLISTED PERRY NOUN ASSOCIATES
OWNER: WOODBURY DEV. GROUP, INC. ZONE: HC-1A, MR-5 LOCATION:
BAY ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES A 70 UNIT SENIOR HOUSING COMPLEX
WITH ASSOCIATED ROADS AND ESSENTIAL UTILITIES. ALL LAND USES IN
HC AND MR-5 ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW. CROSS
REFERENCES: AV 76-1995 BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 2/12/96 WARREN
CO. PLANNING: 2/14/96 TAX MAP NO. 61-1-37.3 LOT SIZE: +1-
4.05 ACRES SECTION: 179-23, 179-18
PERRY NÇ)UN, PRE,$ENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 2-96, Perry Noun Associates.
Meeting Date: February 20, 1996 "The applicant is requesting
approval of a final site plan to allow 58,940 square foot senior
housing' building consisting of 70 units. The plans also indicate
a future second phase which is not being considered at this time
and will need it's own site plan approval in the future. Staff
has reviewed the site plan in accordance with the Zoning
Ordinance and specifically Section 179-38 and has the following
comments. Section 58-3 of the Town Code of Queensbury requires
any senior housing complex with 10 units or more above the first
floor to have an elevator serving those floors. Construction of
this building must comply with this section of the code. Pole
mounted lighting is not shown on the site plan. The locations of
these fixtures should be indicated in order to determine what
impact they may have on adjacent properties. The site plan
provides no information on fencing which may be used to screen
this use from adjacent properties. The board may request that
fencing be provided if they feel it is necessary. An island to
separate the ingress and egress lanes of the main drive is not
provided. Staff would recommend that an island be provided in
order to limit the potential of vehicles traveling in opposite
directions coming in contact with each other. The proposed use
of the smaller accessory building which is shown on the site plan
- 31 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
is unknown. Staff needs to know the proposed dimensions of this
building. The dimensions are needed to accurately determine the
required setback for the structure. Staff would require that the
site plan comply with the comments to be provided by the Health
Department and Rist Frost."
MR. HILTON-Now what I'm going to do is I'm going to read into the
record two letters, one from the Town of Queensbury Department of
Wastewater, one from the Water Depártment, and then I'm going to
have Bill MacNamara with Rist-Frost read his comments into the
record. To begin with, the Departm~nt of Wastewater's letter had
some comments on the utility plan it says that, "UTILITY PLAN--
shows a Sanitary Sewer Line coming from Manhole #4-3~ going
approximately 270' onto the applicant's property. Ourrecórds
indicate that this line was never inspected by our office, and
may never have been installed. A field inspection of manhole #4-
31 shows that there isn't a connection at this point. There was
a 6" lateral stub left for future connection for this parcel.
Those measurements are available at the Wastewater Office. If
there has been a pipe connected to this lateral, a, TV inspection
will be required, (and repair if necessary) before any connection
is made. CONSTRUCTION DETAIL$: Precast Sanitary Manhole: 1.
Standard manhole frame cover should be S~r,cuse#1009 'no
pickholes'. The note that refers to Saratoga County Sewer
District#l should be omitted. 2. Adjust to grade for the frame
and cover should be done with precast concrete donuts risers only
no bricking. Use non-shrink grout only. 3. Manhole#l must be
designed for traffic loading. (H20-44) Sanitary Sewer notes to
be added: 9. A minimum frost protection of 4' cover and minimum
pitch of 1% required. 10. A backwater valve and main line 'u'
trap must be installed insidè the building and be accesèible.
Detail of this is available at the Wastewater Office." Secondly,
I have a letter from .the Water Department, from Tbm Flaherty, the
Superintendent. Tom states that he has reviewed the above
project, "and noted that the developer proposes to connect the
project to the existing water main at Westwood. The water mains
at Westwood are privately owned and can not be used for any other
purpose. Originally, when Westwood was built it was owned by the
Woodbury Group as was the site of the above project, which was
at that time intended to be used for the 'Offices at Westwood'.
Apparently this parcel has been sold and/or. subdivided which will
require its own separate water connection to the municipal
system." And that is signed by Tom Flaherty.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. HILTON-Now I'm going to hand the mike over to Bill MacNamara
of Rist-Frost, and he's going to summarize.
MR. PALING-All right.
letters in after Bill is
George, will you also read
finished, that we have?
the other
MR. BREWER-Can I just ask one question before we go on, Bob?
MR. PAL ING--Yes .
MR. BREWER-Can you tell us where that water main that Tom
Flaherty's talking about is on this map, at Westwood?
MR. PALING-Jim, why don't you point it out on the one up here, so
we'll all know what we're talking about.
MR. MARTIN-Well, it's on the separate utility plan, Bob, Page Two
of your submission, it's noted in the lower right hand corner,
utility plan. Okay. See to the rear of the site, the water line
that shows coming in between the two buildings at Westwood,
indicated by a "W", approximate location of eight in~h water
main.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-All right. Is this the private water main?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MR. PALING-Yes, and they're not going to be allowed to connect to
this. Right.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. That's not a publically maintained water line.
MR. PALING-Yes. Right. Okay. Just as long as we're all on the
same sheet.
MR. MARTIN-We also have the Warren County.
MR. PALING-That's what I meant. George will take care of that.
Yes. Okay.
BILL MACNAMARA
MR. MACNAMARA-Okay. In addition to the plans that were
submitted, we also had use of the previous site plans that were
approved a number of years back, for what~ver extra information
that's worth. We had noted a couple of access arrangement
issues, and for the record, I went over most of these with their
engineering contact this afternoon, also. I don't believe
they've done any changes for this evening, but I know that
they're thinking about them already. Access arrangements in
particular, the entry point right there where the entry drive
splits and goes each way, looks a bit tight for, in particular,
some of the fire department vehicles, and we had some discussions
with the Fire Marshal in terms of truck lengths and turning
templates, and we did put some templates and some geometries on,
and it's pretty tight, In fact, we're not sure it could make it
by the curves, as well as some of the corners around the
building. You might want to look at the dimensions we'd given in
terms of truck lengths and make sure that access is adequate.
There's also a question about a loading area. They show some
kind of a loading area that would be good for passenger cars, but
anything larger than a passenger car would have a tough go of it.
The next note, we suggested that some kind of internal traffic
control notes or directions and symbols be shown on the plan.
We~re assuming it's two way around, but weren't sure of that, and
in terms of that intersection right there, right by that drop off
point might want to have a stop sign. I'd just kind of throw
that out for your thoughts. There weren't any notes in terms of
a gas service. I believe there's a gas main out on Bay Road, but
if there wasn't going to be gas, there may be storage tanks,
above ground or underground, and those are certainly site plan
notes. We had some of the same notes that Tom Flaherty did for
the water and sewer. In particular, there's a sanitary manhole,
the new sanitary manhole noted out in front of the structure that
probably wants to have some inverts shown it, some slopes, clean
out per Queensbury's codes, as well as to confirm whether or not
that line exists, and it sounds like Tom has done that. It's
also not clear if you're going to have any kitchen facilities,
and if so, if it's going to be a significant kitchen, then there
may need to be some thought for a grease trap, similar
contraption. Water supply. We had the same notes as Tom. Tom
and I talked about, if it's a private main, of course, it would
want to remain private ownership, and (lost word) arrangements
would need to be agreed on. There's an existing hydrant shown
that I do believe, in fact, is out there. We're assuming that's
the one that's going to be relocated, but it wasn't noted. I
didn't know if you were going to actually relocated that
somewhere else and have more than one new hydrant. Two more.
Erosion and sediment control notes are very well noted in the
Stormwater Management Plan, and they refer you to the site plan
in a couple of spots, and it looks like they may not have
- 33 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
actually made it on the site plan, but they do have erosion
control measures proposed, not on the drawings, though, and
lastly, the drainage plan. They did a real good job in terms of
showing 50 year storm control on site accommodation of the
existing storm sewer that runs out to Bay Road and runs into the
County sewer, as well as a wet basin out front and a dry swale
kind of a retention area out back. ,Our only note was that we
noted that the front retention basin shows a water elevation
that's going to be permanent of anywhere from two to three feet,
depending on where the elevation exactly where you read it and
contours, and I know from past reviews you've had here that
there's always some discussion and concern about retention basins
with water levels in them to remain all the time, and we just
noted in the past there's been some concern about that and there
may need to be some measures, such as a fence or something that
may be discussed. Those are our only notes. Thanks.
MR. PALING-Why don't we get all of the letters and what not out
of the way before we get into a discussion that we have. We have
the Beautification Committee, and so on. Are there any of these
you wanted to comment on, George?
MR. HILTON-Yes. I would. I also have an additional letter here
from the Fire Marshal for the Town of Queensbury, C.A. Grant it's
signed. He has a few comments which I will read into the record.
Number One, he states "Check that the driving lane around the
building will accommodate the 45 degree turning radius of the
largest piece of fire apparatus that would be required to access
the rear of the building, Queensbury Central's tower ladder. 2.
Assure that the water line serving the property will accOmmodate
the demand of the sprinkler system which I believe will be
required for this 83, 3-story occupancy. 3. Bring the Water
Department into the review, as usual, to asSure that it's
requirements are met. Additionally, I would at this point,
strongly recommend a fire hydrant in front and another at the
rear of the complex. Pending re0iew with the Fire Chief, the two
hydrants may in fact, be required." The Warren County Planning
Board resolution, at their meeting óh the 14th of Þebruary, 1996,
stated approval with the comment that it should çoncur with local
conditions. The Beáutification Com~ittee, on Monday February 12,
1996, recommended approval of the plan as submitted. The motion
was seconded and carried out.
MR. PALING-Excuse me on that one. Is this the one, Queensbury
Committee for Community' Beautification, there are some
provisions, though, to t-Jhat they wanted, evidentally. This is
the February 12th letter. We'll ask the applicant later if they
concur with what's being asked for in the letter. Okay.
MR. MARTIN-Then you have the variance as a means of a cross
reference, the Area Variance, granted by the ZBA last December.
MR. PALING-Okay. What about, Ivan Zdrahal Associates? We have a
letter here from them. Should we also read that into the record?
No. Forget it.
MR. RUEL-That's a submittal.
MR. PALING-Yes. Okay. I think we're through with the papers,
and we have to keep out the Beautification Committee. Would you
identify yourselves, please.
MR. NOUN-Yes. My name is Perry Noun. I'm the President of Perry
Noun Associates, Inc. This is Chris Scoringe, my attorney.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Does the Board have any questions
at the moment and comments? Have you seen all of the comments
prior to tonight, that were made by engineering and staff and the
- 34 -
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(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
Beautification Committee? Have you seen them all?
MR. PALING-Okay. Wow. We've got a long way to
wondering if we can even do it. Perhaps if they
everything in writing and defer it to another day?
go. I'm
were given
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes. Why didn't they get it?
MR. HILTON-We had them prepared and they were available Friday.
MR. PALING-Okay. It appears that there's quite a bit to do, and
it can't be done.
MR. NOUN-Too much. I was going to suggest that. As soon as I
started hearing the list, my personal opinion is I would like
very much to address all of those issues because until we address
those issues, I don't know if it makes any sense to go through
the presentation.
MR. PALING-No. I think we can hold a public hearing tonight, and
could we put this back on the agenda for next week, because we're
meeti ng .
MR. RUEL-As long as you have the answers.
MR. NOUN-We will have the answers.
MR. PALING-All right. Well, why don't we say, if everybody
agrees, that you'll try to put them on the agenda for next week,
bu t, we'll.
MR. BREWER-Can we get their answers, or some sort of answers from
them, possibly by Monday, so I have at least a day to read them?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. I was going to say by Friday.
MR. BREWER-Well, I was being a little bit lenient.
MR. NOUN-May I suggest, then, that you put us on the agenda for
next week, and I will answer your question tomorrow.
MR. PALING-No, no. It's not just his question.
MR. NOUN-I mean all of the questions, should we go ahead with it.
MR. BREWER-Staff comments, so that we can at least read them and
absorb what your answers to their questions are.
MR. OBERMAYER-Right.
MR. PALING-Staff is asking that yOU have it to them by Friday.
MR. MARTIN-If that's possible. If not, we can do it Monday.
MR. RUEL-And when would ~ get it then?
MR. MARTIN-By Friday. See, if I can get it Friday, I can get it
delivered to you by late Friday afternoon.
MR. PALING-It's nice if we have the weekend to look these over.
We can't just sit and look at them and do anything. We've got to
have a chance to read them, too. Okay. Lets just be sure that
you have everything. Do you have all of the Rist-Frost comments
from Bill MacNamara, and you may have already started to address
those.
MR. NOUN-If we could get copies of those.
- 35 -
(Cueensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-All right.
MR. RUEL-Fire Marshal, Wastewater.
MR. PALING-Okay. I'd like to do this through you, George and
Jim, so that we're sure that the applicant has th~ information
that he needs. He needs a copy of the Rist-Frost letter. He
needs comments, also, from the Fire Marshal, Water Department,
Wast.ewater.
MR. MARTIN-Hé can fax them off the first thing in the morning.
MR. PALING-Okay, because I think we're just going to table this
anyway.
MR. STARK-Bob, are you going to open a public hearing?
MR. PALING-Yes. I'm going to. All right. I think we can
continue. Tim, I think you had some comments you wanted to make.
MR. BREWER-No. I just wanted to make sure that if anybody had
any comments, we got them out. I had one specific comment that
Bill already had made about the standing water in the retention
basin. I have a big problem with that, especially if there's
going to be elderly. If somebody was out there walking or
whatever, and they happened to fall in there, God knows that
somebody could get hurt in two or three foot of water.
MR. PALING-And that's in Bill's, part of Bill's. Okay.
MR. BREWER-It is in there. I jwst wanted to reiterate that I
have a concern about that.
MR. PALING-All right.
public hearing?
Any other comments before we open the
MR. OBERMAYER-I think a lot of them were addressed through the
engineering comments and the Fire Marshal, I think.
MR. PALING-All
public hearing
matter?
r ignt. Lets go to' the pJbl ic hêär i ng, then. 'The
is open. Does anyone care to speak on this
MR. MACEWAN-Why don't you leave it open?
MR. PALING-Yes. I agree.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. PALING-Because I think we're going to go to tabling this, the
public hearing will remain open, and we'd advise ánybody that's
interested that we intend to put this on the agenda for a week
from tonight. All right. Are there any comments at all here?
TED JONES
MR.
Would
mor e?
JONES-President of the Westwood
we have an opportunity to speak
Homeowners
next week,
Association.
when we kno~.¡
MR. PALING-Yes. The public hearing is open and will remain open
into next week's meeting, yes.
MR. MARTIN-It'll 7 p.m. next Tuesday evening in the same
building.
MR. PALING-Now this will not be re-advertised,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-That's correct.
MR. PALING-Okay. So be sure that you let everyone know that
should know.
MR. OBERMAYER-If you do have questions, though, for the
applicant, you might want to raise them now. That way they have
a week to respond to any issues that you might have.
MR. JONES-Well, they're aware of the few questions that we have,
but there's been a number of things that have just come up, such
as the water main situation and so on.
MR. PALING-You mean that came up tonight?
MR. JONES-Yes. I had no idea they were going to try to tap into
our water main.
MR. OBERMAYER-Well, they're not going to.
MR. JONES-No, I know, but I don't know what else is happening.
MR. PALING-All right. No. This meeting is open.
invited to speak again next week.
You will be
MR. JONES-Okay. Thank you very much.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?
hearing is not closed. It's just postponed.
applicant's approval to table this matter,
meeting.
Okay. The public
We have to have the
until next week's
MR. NOUN-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. Do we need a motion on this?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 2-96 PERRY NOUN ASSOCIATES,
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Timothy Brewer:
Until 2/27/96, for a 70 unit senior housing complex with
associated roads and essential utilities.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay. Then we'll see you next week on this. Okay.
Jim Martin, I believe you have the floor.
MR. MARTIN-A couple of issues I wanted to discuss with the Board,
the first being, I think we gave everybody a copy of the new
SEQRA Regulations, if anybody has any questions on them, I was
going to give you a brief summary tonight, but if anybody has any
detailed questions, you're certainly free to come into our office
and pose them. If we can't answer them, we'll get the answers
for you. The primary change comes in the Type II list. Type II
list, if you recall, are those actions which are exempt and do
not need further environmental review. That list has been
greatly expanded, actually, and I think it's going to have
probably a pretty dramatic effect on our agendas and how we
normally do things. I think it's going to speed things along a
- 37 -
(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
great deal. There's references in here even to the effect of,
for example, commercial projects less than 4,000 square feet do
not need site plan review. Yes, here is it. Construction or
expansion of a primary or accessory nonresidential structure or
facility involving less than 4,000 square feet of gross floor
area is now exempt from environmental review. So, we sent you
all copies of this. I would review that Type II list, b~come
familiar with it. The other changes, each of the forms have been
changed. We gave you new copies of those tonight, thanks to
Roger's assistance. The real change in those really is one
question has been added, and that is, in the Short Form, Question
D, will the project have an impact on the environmental
characteristics that cause the establishment of the CEA. This
was really a tradeoff for the old provision in the law that any
unlisted action in a Critical Environmental Are~ was by
definition a Type I action. Well they took that out, and as a
tradeoff, they put in a direct question about Critical
Environmental Areas.
MR. RUEL-When was CEA initiated in Queensbury?
MR. MARTIN-I think the Town put in place their Critical
Environmental Area in 1989. They're essentially two vast areas,
well, three, the shoreline of Glen Lake, Rush Pond, the shoreline
of Lake George extending down into the Dunham's Bay wetland,
really are the three Critical Environmental Areas in the Town.
MR. RUEL-And all this will be in the CQmprehensive Land Use plan?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, definitely, and then in terms of the Long Form,
Question 14 on Page 10 now is, impact on Critical Environmental
Areas. Will proposed action impact the exceptional or unique
characteristics of a Critical Environmental Area established
pursuant to Subdivision 6NYCRR 617.14? Those are the major
changes in the law, if you want to read through it. I tried to
get a copy from the State that would highlight the changed
sections, but that wasn't available, to make it a little easier,
but that wasn't available.
MR. STARK-Jim, when Salvador builds his house in the middle of
the lake, will we have to do a Long Form or a Short Form?
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, what's the status of that?
MR. MARTIN-He's been denied. First and foremost, he doesn't meet
the setback provisions. Obviously, the shoreline setback is from
the body of water, not out into the water extending from the
shoreline.
MR. RUEL-Landscaping is bad too, right?
MR. MARTIN-Well, there are other smaller things, like no parking
was shown. Permeability wasn't on~ of them.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Doesn't he have parking on his regular property?
MR. MARTIN-It wasn't indicated. He's already got 11 docks on the
site. This would be an additional dock, which already exceeds
the number allowed for that amount of shoreline.
MR. RUEL-Have no fear, he'll be back.
MR. MARTIN-He'll be back, but that was outright denied. Plus it
needs an APA permit to drive pilings in the middle of, APA has
that section of the lake, they call that a deep water wetland.
So driving pilings in a deep water wetland requires an APA
permit.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MRS. LABOMBARD-So he can't even do anything with us until he gets
that first.
MR. RUEL-He's in trouble. He can't do anything.
MR. MARTIN-Technically he could get a building permit, but APA
would step in and put a stop Work Order.
MR. PALING-Jim, going back to this.
me on Page 14.
Just clarify one thing for
MR. MARTIN-Page 14 of the law?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Okay.
MR. PALING-Commissioner. I
"commissioner" . I know what
instance, I don't think I do.
just had run across the
commissioner means, but in
term
this
MR. MARTIN-That's the Commissioner
Environmental Conservation.
of the
Department of
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-Okay. The next thing was, I think you got in your
packets the memo about the generic environmental impact statement
and approval process for the industrially zoned areas of the
Town. This is an idea of mine, I'll take the credit or the blame
for it. This is a reaction to, certainly, I feel was a very firm
opinion of the community that economic development is principally
manufacturing and so called quality job is suffering in the Town,
and it is a priority item with the Town Board in 1996. So in
response to those issues, this idea was developed that would
speed the approval process for a potential industrial developer
in the Town, and I say speed and not necessary sacrifice any
quality of a review or approval for that, but it would allow a
developer to have a known quantifiable time to get a building
permit, and that would be done by means of a generically approved
environmental impact statement on industrially zoned property and
a generically approved site plan for industrially zoned property.
So, in other words, out of these two processes would be a series
of thresholds that would be established. If a project comes in
and falls within those thresholds, then they can go directly to a
building permit.
MR. MACEWAN-Can you give me an example of a project that would
fall within those thresholds?
MR. MARTIN-All right. I'll give you a hypothetical, because
obviously that's all that can be done at this time, and say we
have a project for a warehouse and distribution center on, say a
25 acre parcel of industrially zoned property. Coming out this
approval will have standards set forth for landscaping,
stormwater, parking, building setback, any other issues that
would come to mind with a site plan review.
MR. OBERMAYER-How about waste generation or something like that?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. As long as it's on the approved list in our
industrially zoned areas. If it's not on the approved list,
obviously, then it would come for a Use Variance and then all
this is off the table. What I'm saying, an approved use, like a
distribution center, it's already on our approved list. If they
meet those thresholds set forth in this generic approval, then
they can go to a building permit. If they don't, then they'd
still have to go through the regular process.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
2/20/96 )
MR. MACEWAN-So basically what you're doing, then, is kind of
setting up a generic system of checks and balances to attract
"clean" type industry. I mean, the first thought l thought of
when I saw this thing is I said to myself, well, lets suppose we
took the old Ceiba Geigy site. Suppose you have two competing
interests that want that site, one happens to be a grocery
distributor and the other one happens to be a fertilizer plant.
So how is your generic thing going to either deter or help either
one of those into that site?
MR. MARTIN-Well, first of all, if the property owner there, we
don't negotiate the sale. I mean, that's up to the property
owner, if he wants to sell either one of those two, but in terms
of either one of those two uses, as long as they're approved uses
on our use schedule, in that zoning district, that's one test,
and then if they come in with that proposal, and that project,
either one, meets all the thresholds that are laid out in the
generic approval, then they can go to a building permit. I don't
know that I have a preference over either one, as long as they're
on the approved use schedule for that zone.
MR. MACEWAN-I guess maybe where I was trying to go with
how do you handle a generically, a potential usage
hazardous chemicals or something that's not, that
environmental concerns? How does this generic?
this is
of maybe
has some
MR. RUEL-It wouldn't meet the requirements, I don't think.
MR. MARTIN-Well, it would have to, and if it's something that's
not foreseen in the approval, then it's got to come for site
plan, if there's a'n aspect of that project that.
MR. MACEWAN-Then you're going to have like a clause or a catch in
there that if it wasn't something that was perceived as a use in
this zone, it kicks it automatically into a site plan.
MR. MARTIN-Right, and it's also part of your new law here, for
the SEQRA law, 617-10, on Page 26, lays out the process for
generic envirónmental impact statements.
MR. OBERMAYER-Okay. So you're kind of following along in that
pattern?
MR. MARTIN-That's exactly the process we woúld use as laid out in
the law.
MR. BREWER-So it doesn't
senior citizen home or
development.
necessarily pertain to something like
something like that, just industrial
MR. MARTIN-No, nothing about commercial or anything, just
industrial development.
MR. RUEL-so it bypasses the Planning Board.
MR. MARTIN-That's the thing I wanted to speak with you about, is
I don't see it as a bypass of the Planning Board.
MR. RUEL-But we get involved in this generically.
MR. MARTIN-You're involved in a generic process, in setting up
those thresholds.
MR. RUEL-But it reduces OUT workload.
MR. MARTIN-It may have the effect of reducing your workload, and
it does take you out of the individual review.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. RUEL-Right.
MR. PALING-But that's not the real factor in it.
MR. MARTIN-Where the Planning Board I saw was involved was during
the, establishing the generic threshold.
MR. RUEL-I have a question here. This is a great idea. How does
a prospective developer know that this even exists?
MR. MARTIN-Well, then, once it's in place, I would say a guy like
Chris Hunsinger, who's the Warren County Economic Development
person, if he's marketing the area, or has a potential developer,
this is one of the things he can offer.
MR. OBERMAYER-I think it's great.
MR. RUEL-Yes, it is.
MR. BREWER-So it's strictly industrial development?
MR. MARTIN-Strictly industrial development.
MR. SREWER-We only have one or two areas in the Town that's zoned
that way, isn't that? Not light industrial, strictly heavy
industrial?
MR. MARTIN-No, light industrial also.
MR. BREWER-So then that means almost the whole end of West Glens
Falls is light industrial.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. RUEL--Yes.
MR. MARTIN-This is not intended to be an easy process. It's not
intended to be a broad brush thing. This is meant to be a real
analytical approach to this generic approval. It's not meant to
be just an easy.
MR. BREWER-So then you would have to go out and do soil samples
and everything then, wouldn't you? Would you have to update the
soil analysis that the Town has now?
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. RUEL-That's an incentive to get people to come in here and
develop the area.
MR. MARTIN-I think you're talking about something that, on the
expense side of things.
MR. BREWER-I think $10,000's on the low side.
MR. MARTIN-No, I think you're looking at $50, $60,000, at least.
MR. OBERMAYER-Yes, but I think it's good, because you'll have
documented what's required, in order to, you know, up front.
MR. MARTIN-In some ways, it may even help the process, because,
like, you know, the Big Boom Road area for example. If I had to
do it over again, I certainly wouldn't have some areas of that
road that are zoned light industrial carry that designation
because of the topography there.
MR. BREWER-Well, you have that opportunity right now, though,
with the Master Plan.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Right, but this is accelerating that, though. This is
doing that, I'd like to do this this year, you know, have this
done in this calendår year.
MR. BREWER-But does it make a lot of sense to do that process and
then come to the point where the Comprehensive Land plan says
that, gee, maybe that area shouldn't be industrial.
MR. MARTIN-That kind of thing will be exposed early on in this
generic process. That may be, Tim, one of the mitigating things
that's done. If there's so many factors, or something that's so
severe that it can't be mitigated.
MR. BREWER-Then that may kick it into a review.
MR. MARTIN-No, the last form of mitigátion is to take it right
out of industrial zoning.
MR. RUEL-If this works, this could apply to other zones as well.
MR. MARTIN-Well, I don't know about that.
MR. BREWER-No, that's what you have those zones for, is just for
that kind of development.
MR. MARTIN-The only reason I raised it for this is I think
there's a community need certainly identified in the neighborhood
meetings we've had on the Comprehensive Plan, and it was
something the Town Board said they want' to pursue in this
calendar year.
MR. RUEL-Other communities have?
MR. MARTIN-Not that I'm aware of~ I've heard of other
communities that have gone through and they've done a piece of
their industrial zoning. I'm not aware of 'anybody who's done a
town wide. I think it's been done, because that generic process
exists here in state law. I think some communities have done
their entire Comprehensive Plan that way. '
MR. PALING-Jim, what participation are we going to have in this,
the Board?
MR. MARTIN-I see your participation on the environmental impact
statement as an involved agency.
MR. PALING-Yes, but how are we going to participate, in what
form?
MR. MARTIN-You're going to have copies of the dràft to review and
comment on, the specifics of that, and I would also think that
you'd be commenting on the generic approval law that's going to
be developed, because right riow we don't have anything in our
code, obviously, that allows for this to be done. You'll have a
say in that, and then you'll ob~iously have a say in the
thresholds that are established for these various items.
MR. PALING-Okay. So we'll be getting letters on this to look
over.
MR. MARTIN-Yes. You'll be very heavily involved.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-I think it's probably going to involve maybe even two
or three workshops on this subject matter alone.
MR. PALING-Yes. I think that would be good.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-I want to have
standpoint, that only helps if
this idea.
you fully involved. From ffiZ
we have this Board's support of
MR. PALING-I hope we support it.
think we would, and would like
formulation.
Basically it's a great idea. I
to participate, too, in its
MR. MARTIN-I think it's one of those things that sounds good
conceptually, but like to quote Ross Perot, the devil's and the
details type thing. I mean, when you get into this real analysis
is when you.
MR. BREWER-Boy, that's going to be the cumbersome part of it is
the analysis of the zones and the land and everything.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MR. PALING-Yes. That's methodical, grind away.
MR. MACEWAN-How long do you feel this process is going to take?
MR. MARTIN-I would say if we got it done by mid to late fall we'd
be doing very well.
MR. PALING-That's a lot of work.
MR. QBERMAYER-I think it's great effort.
MR. MARTIN-But if we get it done, I think we'd really have a leg
up on most other communities in the State.
MR. OBERMAYER-And hopefully it'll benefit our community.
MR. MARTIN-Right. Yes, we're making an investment in industrial
development. Whether it pays dividends, we'll see.
MR. BREWER-Does the QËDC want to kick anything in on this? It's
food for thought. I mean, they're promoting the area. They have
funds available.
MR. MARTIN-Well, something I've identified as a means to pay for
this is, you remember the original, there was $400,000 made as a
donation, so to speak, to QEDC to start the tech park out on Dix
Avenue. Well now that that is all just about full, the QEDC now
has retained that money from the Town, and the Town has set up an
economic development fund as a place to put that money when they
receive it. They got their first payment, to the tune of
$56,000. I made a proposal to the Town Board that that be the
source of money to pay for this.
MR. BREWER-Then it doesn't take anything away from the taxpayers.
MR. MARTIN-It was originally, not the current funds, though. It
was originally taxpayer's money.
MR. PALING-Okay. Jim, before you do your last thing on sort of a
numbers, whatever it is last year, tell us about the attorney
situation now, with Mark gone.
MR. MARTIN-Well, Mark is not gone. Mark is probably more heavily
involved than ever. You probably read in the paper Mark is the
interim Town Attorney.
MR. PALING-Yes, right.
MR. MARTIN-And his role in our office now is not just one of a
Planning Board role, but now has expanded, he's the attorney we
- 43 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
use now for enforcement actions. John Goralski will be using
him, Dave Hatin. I mean, he's the Town Attorney, even our Animal
Control cases will be handled through their firm. So, he's
working with us more than ever now, but there is some discussion
as to how much of his time 1S really needed here at the Board.
Bob and I talked a little bit. Maybe we could back it off a
little bit, in the capacity that we use Bill MacNamara, as needed
or when a project, if something comes up, we table it until Mark
can be present, or if we know a legal project is coming, we have
Mark present ftom the outset, but I just did our end of the year
report for the Department. We spent $19,000 on attorney's fees
last year, and $15,000 the year before that. Probably the bulk
of the increase from one year to the next was that we had a
defense on the Great Escape lawsuit, if you recall, which we won,
but we're always trying to assess our costs in that, always
trying to keep it reasonable, and that might be one method that
we could keep it a littl~ more reasonable.
MR. MACEWAN-How many more applications did we have from '94 to
'95, though, that would have required extra meetings or whatever?
MR. MARTIN-Well, it's interesting. If you look at the numþers,
you'll be seeing this will all be set forth in my report. I hope
to have it to you next week. I'm writing it right now, but we've
gone th,"ough the numbe," section of it. The P Ianni ng .Board was
actually very much more efficient last year than you were the
previous year. You had almost twice as many site plans came
through last year, but you did it in five less meetings. I think
it went from 48 site plans to 70, but you had five less meetings.
You only had two less subdivision applications, but it resulted
in five more lots being created. You had 45 in 1994, and you had
50 in 1995. So the workload went up, but we had fewer meetines.
MR. BREWER-Didn't we do this about three years ago, though, when
we had the attorney, and then we kind of backed off, and then we
all?
MR. MARTIN-It's uþ to the Board.
MR. BREWER-It doesn't make any difference, what everybody feels,
but I just, I don't know, was it three years ago, four years ago?
MR. MARTIN-We did it with Paul, right before we went to our own
full time counsel.
MR. BREWER-And then we all decided that we should have an
attorney.
MR. PALING-Okay. My reply to Jim was that I thought that perhaps
I could sit with he and George or whoever and talk about if we
foresaw anything that would have a legal implication that we'd
ask for an attorney to be present, but if we saw it was a clear
night, then we wouldn't ask for help.
MR. OBERMAYER-Like tonight for example.
MR. PALING-Only one real time that we had to do it.
MR. RUEL-Why don't you poll the Board and find out.
MR. MARTIN-Well, it's just preliminary at this point, but I saw,
you know, maybe there's a way to save some money here.
MR. OBERMAYER-I think if you can save the taxpayers of the Town
of Queensbury money, I'm all for it.
MR. PALING-And also if we would try it that way, and it doesn't
work out, we can quickly go back to the other way.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Yes, you can always go back.
MR. FRIEDLAND-Let me Just add, get my two cents in, that, first,
my appearance here tonight has nothing to do with our firm being
named Town Attorney.
MR. MARTIN-No, that's right.
MR. FRIEDLAND-Mark is out of town, so he asked me to fill in.
MR. MARTIN-Actually, he's at the Association of Towns annual
meeting in New York City.
MR. FRIEDLAND-And I've filled in before, occasionally, and that's
all this was tonight, and secondly, you know, we do a lot of
Planning and Zoning Board work, and municipalities range the
whole thing from having us come to every meeting, which I think
Mark's been doing, to coming only if there's, you know, if they
foresee a problem, like you were talking about before. We'll do
whatever you want.
MR. MARTIN-So maybe that's something that needs more discussion.
Now in terms of some of the other quantities, I've talked about a
lot of it, but in terms of meeting decisions, if you ever hear
anybody out there in the community complaining about the length
of the Queensbury process, that we're anti-business and we're not
business friendly, well, you approved 100% of your subdivisions
in one meeting last year, and 82% of your site plans in one
meeting. So I don't want to hear about how arduous this process
is.
MR. MACEWAN-Gee, you should have brought that up earlier in the
evening.
MR. BREWER-You always hear it, though.
MR. MARTIN-None of the projects went three meetings.
18% were dealt with in two meetings.
The other
MR. PALING-Why don't you somehow get a summary to the Post Star.
MR. MARTIN-They're given a copy of the report every year.
MR. PALING-Are they? I hope they read it and summarize it.
MR. MARTIN-Now some people would even turn that on its head and
say, well now you're doing things and I disagree with that.
MR. PALING-Yes. My rejoinder to that, as I said to you is, what
was the wrong doing, or where was the complaint, or what's the
fault? We didn't have any feedback because we were hasty with
anything, anything went wrong, and I don't we have been hasty.
MR. MARTIN-I think there's been a lot more work done up front, in
the last couple of years, with applicants, getting an application
ready for submission, by the time you see it.
MR. MACEWAN-Here's a curious observation.
workshops did we have last year versus '94?
HO~<J many more
MR. MARTIN-I didn't break the meetings down that fine, but I
could.
MR. MACEWAN-That would be an interesting statistic, because a lot
more applicants came up in front of us last year and asked for a
workshop to know what the heck the concerns were going to be
before they even hit a site plan or a preliminary subdivision.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-Okay. The last item on the agenda. Does anyone else
have anything before we get to election of officers?
MR. BREWER-No.
MR. PALING-I guess not.
off ice1-s .
All right. We'll go to election of
MR. OBERMAYËR-Okay. with that, I would like to nominate, I'd
like to just say, thank the Planning Staff in 1995, and hopefully
we'll have a successful year this year. According to the
statistics, it sounds like we have. I'd like to nominate Bob
Paling, again, for Chairman.
MOTION TO NOMINATE BOB PALING FOR CHAIRMAN, Introduced by James
Obermayer who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine
LaBomba,rd:
I think he's done an outstanding job. He's been very consistent
in fairness to the applicant. He has a willingness to seek
solutions and has compromised in a positive way to the
applicants. He has lead the Board in making decisions that are
both win/win for both the applicant and the Town, I believe.
This is my opinion. He has shown great effort and endless effort
and participation in presenting future Town Planning and
recommending positive changes in the elimination of the
bureaucratic obstacles in the Town Planning approval effort, and
he is always willing to extend a helping hand instead of a
controversial hand to industry willing to expand and create jobs
within the Town of Queensbury.
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
MR. RUEL-No, I'd like to qualify it, though. Nothing personal,
but I'm reacting, again, to the Town Board's recommendation a
year ago, that we should periodically change Chairmanship, and on
that basis I'm voting no.
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling
NOES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer
MR. RUEL-I'm for term limits.
MOTION TO NOMINATE GEORGE STARK TO BE VICE CHAIRMAN, Introduced
by Robert Paling who moved for its adoption, seconded by James
Obermayer:
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MOTION TO NOMINATE CATHERINE LABOMBARD AS SECRETARY, Introduced
by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert
Paling:
Duly adopted this 20th day of February, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Obermayer, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling
NOES: Mr. Ruel
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. MARTIN-Some years you're heavy with workshops. I remember
just the K-Mart project alone, for example, you had a half a
dozen workshops on that, even before you got to your first site
plan meeting.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And Hudson Pointe was very time consuming. I
mean, that's one, and how much time went into that.
MR. MARTIN-And like you've got another, in all l~kelihood,
another PUD coming up this year, potentially two.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Vasiliou's.
MR. PALING-Vasiliou, yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Whati,s the other one.
MR. MARTIN-Just one came in today. It may come down
conventional subdivision or a PUD. Believe it or not,
the Broadacres area? Well, between Broadacres and the
there's 40 acres in there, open property, and it's
single ownership. So it depends on how it all breaks
may be a PUD. It may be like a clustered $ubdivision.
either a
you know
Northway,
all under
out. It
MRS. LABOMBARD-It comes out behind, way back where Coolidge ends.
MR. MARTIN-Right.
MRS. LABOMBARD'-Way bac ki n there.
MR. MARTIN-Nice property. I never realized there was that much
land in there. It's north of Sherman, south of Dixon and west of
Coolidge.
MR. RUEL-Which side of the Northway?
MR. MARTIN-East side of the Northway.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Dr. Hopper has a big piece of property way up at
the end, and when you go up there, it's all woods way up in
there.
MR. BREWER-Yes. That house that sits back up in on the hill. Is
that the one with the gate out in front?
MRS. LABOMB~RD-N9t the one on the hill~ no.
! ~ '
MR. STARK-Who are you talking about, Hopper's property?
MRS. LABOMBARD-I'm just saying, he's at the end of Coolidge, way
up there, and then if you walk, I used to walk in there. We used
to live down in there, and there's all kinds of woods back in
there.
MR. MARTIN-I never realized.
there, but not that much.
I knew there was some vacant land
MRS. LABOMBA8D-I didn't think the~e was that much eith~r.
MR. PALING-Thank you, Jim.
MR. MARTIN-But you'll have a written report by your meeting next
Tuesday.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. MARTIN-It makes for interesting reading, especially if you're
involved in it.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/20/96)
MR. PALING-I'll make a motion that the meeting be adjourned.
MR. BREWER-Second.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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