1996-04-16
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
APR ILl 6, 1 996
INDEX
Site Plan No. 5-96
Tax Map No. 45-3-24
Kevin Kane
1.
Site Plan No. 12-96
Tax Map No. 33-1-3.3,
3.1 & 3.2
Kevin Quinn
2.
Subdivision No. 4-1996
SKETCH PLAN
Edward Lowell, et. al.
Tax Map No. 54-2-7
'4.
Subdivision No. 8-1995
PRELIMINARY STAGE
Tax Map No. 12-3-27
Colgate Phillips Estate!
Leigh Beeman
6.
Site Plan No. 9-96
Tax Map No. 98-5-3.1
Toys "R" Us
1 0 .
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
APR ILl 6 , 1 996
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
GEORGE STARK, ACTING CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
TIMOTHY BREWER
CRAIG MACEWAN
ROGER RUEL
MEMBERS ABSENT
ROBERT PALING
ROGER RUEL
CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER-JOHN GORALSKI
PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
February 20, 1996: NONE
February 27, 1996: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR FEBRUARY 20. 1996 AND FEBRUARY
27. 1996 AS WRITTEN, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 5-96 TYPE II KEVIN KANE OWNER: SAME ZONE: WR-
lA, C.E.A. LOCATION: 7 GLEN HALL DRIVE APPLICANT PROPOSES A 636
SQ. FT. VERTICAL EXPANSION OF RESIDENCE. PER SECTION 179-79,
EXPANSION OF A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE IN A CEA IS SUB.JECT TO SITE
PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REFERENCE:
AV 18-1996 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 3/13/96 TAX MAP NO. 45-3-24 LOT
SIZE: .25 ACRES SECTION: 179-16, 179-79
KEVIN KANE, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 5-96, Kevin Kane, Meeting Date:
April 16, 1996 "The applicant is proposing a 636 square foot
expansion of an existing residence. This expansion will be in the
form of a second floor addition on the existing home. The new
height of the building will be 35 feet. As a part of this site
plan the Planning Board may consider some type of tree planting in
front of the home. This planting which would be on the lake shore
side of the residence would soften the view of the structure from
the lake."
MR. GORALSKI-We've also attached the motion from the Zoning Board
- 1 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
of App'eal's and Warren County' Planning BO,ard said "No County
Impact". '
MR. STARK-Okay. What about the p,Lantings?
MR. KANE-I already have five or six very substantial trees in front
of the house, and the addition won't 'go 'abo~e them. So, I could
add more trees, if that were necessary, but I have a picture of the
house.
MR. ~TARK-Did you go down in front of the house, Tim? Neither did
we.
MR. KAN1~'-I think they were concèrned, on the other one, with me
eliminatinglt~e trees, as oppos~d to adding ~ore.
k '
MR. BREWER-Idòn't see a problem with that.
MR. STA~K-1 don't see a proble~.
. ' oj
MRS. LABOMBARD-That looks pretty.
MR. STAR~-it does. Okay. Any q~estlo~~ for the applicant?
, "
MR., BREWER-The only thing, what does Staff mean, how many trees do
you want planted, and where?
MR. GORALSKI-ActUally, that comment was 'made without the advantage
of being able to get down toward the lake or onto the lake, for
tha t mat tet" to see what the impact was, the thought bei ng that if
this building is going to be signiftoantly hig~er, that it looks
like a tower, that maybe something should be done to mitigate that,
but if the picture shows that's not' the case, then I would just
disregard that.
MR. STARK-Okay. We'll open the public hearing. Does anybody wish
to speak for or against this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-We'll go right into a SEQRA Short Form.
MR. GORALSKI-It's Type II. You don't need any SEQRA at all.
MR. STARK-Okay. A mo,ion is in order then.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 5-'-96 KEVIN KANE, Introduced by
Timothy Biewer who moved f6r its adoption, seconded by Catherine
LaBombard:
For 636 square foot vertical expansion of a residence.
Duly adopteð this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer" Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr . Stark
;
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
SITE PLAN NO. 12-96 tYPE II RECOMMENDATION KEVIN QUINN OWNER:
NORTHEAST REALTY ZONE: HC-IA LOCATION: RT. 9, FORMERLY
SOUTHWEST TRADERS PROPOSAL IS FOR A TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET TO
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
ALLOW VENDORS AT AN EXISTING COMMERCIAL AREA ON UPPER ROUTE 9 AT
THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF THE TOWN. THE PROPOSED MARKET I S FOR SALE
OF MERCHANDISE ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICADE. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 25-
95 WARREN CO. PLANNING - 4/10/96 TAX MAP NO. 33-13~3, 3.1, 3.2
LOT SIZE: 1.43 ACRES SECTION: 160, 179-23
NAOMI PALEETO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 12-96, Kevin Quinn, Meeting Date:
April 16, 1996 "T~e applicant is proposing a market for the sale
of merchandise associated with the Americade festival. Staff has
reviewed Site Plan 12-96 and has the follow~ng comments. The
applicant is proposing to locate 14 parking spaces in the center of
an area which will be used by vendors. This could create
vehicle/pedestrian conflicts in this area. Based on past staff
recolTvnendations regarding parking for this event, the appl icant
could remove these parking spaces and still maintain adequate
parking on site. Staff would recommend that these parking spaces
be removed in order to prevent interaction between vehicles and
patrons of this event. Currently there are three existing curb
cuts 1 oca ted on the nor th enq of the site. I n the pas t, it has
been recommended that the cènter curb be closed for this event.
Due to the fact that the Town of Lake George does not allow any
temporary restroom facilities, any temporary restroom facilities
associated with this event must be located on the portion of the
site that is located within the Town of Queensbury."
MR. GORALSKI -Actually, the Town of Queensbury does not allow
temporary restroom faci I i ties ei ther, but I bel ieve there are
restroom facilities in some of the stores. The motion from last
year is 'attached here. It's the same thing. The only thing l.
would add is that, as the Enforcement Officer last year, I was up
there several times during the event, and we had no problems to
speak of.
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you identify yourself, please.
MS. PALEETO-Naomi Paleeto.
MR. STARK-Okay.
parking spaces.
You've got a copy of John's notes about the
Any comment?
MS. PALEETO-Well, to be honest with you, last year,we weren't
really able to use the parking spots. The parking spots, last
year, were not used, just due to the fact that there were a great
amount of people in this area. There is quite a bit of parking in
the back, which we did not use last year, and I also requested we
can keep the middle curb open, just for the fact that we do have a
flag man there, from morning until night, so people can see pulling
in and out. There won't be, any accidents. There's not going to be
any head ons.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MR. BREWER-What if we a,sked you to close the most southern entrance
on it?
MS. PALEETO-The most southern entrance is blocked.
MR. BREWER-So that's not a problem if we say that there's only two
entrances and exits, rather than three?
MS. PALEETO-Actually, there will be three. You ,see the round
circle that, that's the TeePee, right there in front, that entrance
there we have a flag.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR.BREWER-1;ha,t's the one I'm thinkiI;l& about cJosing" rather than
th~'~e~~e~:one, in other .~ords, so th~re's onl~ two'entrancei, and
exits, Iq.thèr thaQ three.. I thJnk that was the point that was
made', as far às closing the cent'er lane.
.' '
MS. PALEETO-I believe if we kept the most southerly end open,
though, it would be a Ipt easier for peQple to park, and leave a
space in the front of the building.
MR. STARK-Okay. Anything else, Tim?
MR. BREWER-No.
MR. MACEW.AN-You said" last year, that you didn't utilize the
parking ~~acès right along Route 9, last year, ~ecausethere were
so man.y' 'people?
MS. PALEETO-No. The 14 spaces you asked me to eliminate inside of
the veDdi~g,area.
MR¡., :~CEWAN-Okay. Thank you.
. J,
M~. BREW,E~¡-So therè'snot 4- ,problem eliminating them?
MS~ 'PALEtTO-No.
MR. MACEWAN-Did you have any problems, last year, with the restroom
facilities?
MS. PALEETO-No. The only thing is everyþody keeps on asking about
Queensbury. The only public restroom'on the ,property is in the
last building on the left on your map, and that is in the Town of
Lake George.
MR. GORALSKI-Our Ordinance prohibits portable toilets, but, as I
said, as far as l know, I didn't receive any complaints last year
or any problems regarding that issue.
MR. STARK-Okay. 1;hat being the case, I'll open the public hearing.
Anybody wishing to speak for or' against"this recommendation?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-Tim, do you want to make a recommendation?
MOTION TO RECOMMEND APP~OVAL OF SITE PLAN NO. 12-96 KEVIN OUINN,
Introduced 'by Timo'thy Brewer who moved for its ' adoption, seconded
by George,Stark:
Proposa,l for a Trpnsient Merchant market to allow v,endors in
existing commercia.! area on Route 9, at the northern boundary of
the Town. Toe only condition being that they eliminate the 14
parkin~ spaces in the c~nter ~endor area~
Duly adopt~d this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Sta.rk
NOES: NONE
ABSENT; Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
SUBDIV'I SION NO'.
4-1996
SKETCH PLAN
TYPE:
UNLISTED
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
RECOMMENDATION EDWARD LOWELL, ET. AL. OWNERS: EDWARD L. LOWELL,
JR., JAMES B. LOWELL, JOANN MORTON, PHYLLIS COOPER & DANIEL J.
LOWELL, SR. ZONE: SR-IA LOCATION: CHESTNUT RIDGE ROAD
APPLICANT PROPOSES TO SUBDIVIDE A PARCEL INTO FIVE (5) RESIDENTIAL
LOTS OF 8.212 AC., 8.212 AC., 8.212 AC., 8.634 AC., & 76.275 AC.
TAX MAP NO. 54-2-7 SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
BILL ROURKE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 4-1996 SKETCH PLAN STAGE, Edward
Lowell & Others, Meeting Date: April 16, 1996 "The applicant is
proposing a five lot subdivision located on Chestnu~ Ridge Road.
The current zonin~ of the property is SR-IA. The proposed lots
range in area from approximately 8 acres to a lot ~f over 76 acres.
The proposed areas of these lots conform with the Zonihg Ordinance
and the Comprehens i ve Plan for the Town of Queensbury. The
applicant has shown existing grading on the front portion of the
five lots. Any future preliminary plat should also include the
percent of slope for the back portions of these lots. This
information will help determine where future homes cari be built on
the s e lot s . The pre I i m i nary pia t s h 0 u Id a 1 so. i n c 1 u d e alOOf 0 0 t
buffer around the DEC wetland at thê back of the prop~rties ori' the
west side of Chestnut Ridge Road. As a part of any prelimina~y or
final plat approval for this subdivision the two structures to the
north of the proposed Lot 4 should be removed as noted."
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you identify yourself, please?
MR. ROURKE-My name is Bill Rourke.
in South Glens Falls.
I own the Rourke (lost words)
MR. STARK-Okay.
BILL LOWELL
MR. LOWELL-Bill Lowell.
MR. STARK-Okay. You got a copy of John's notes for this, did you
not?
MR. ROURKE-Yes.
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you care to address them?
MR. ROURKE-Yes. Here's the four lots that are going to be, there's
an existing two story home here, and it's a split up of family
owned property, and the family members are eventually going to be
(lost words), not right away, though. T~ey'r~ go,ing to confine the
building to within 200 feet of the road. Back, from 200 feet back
it's about 20 to 25 percent sloped. There is wetlands here, and
there's a 100 foot, we show the wetlands and the 100 year flood
plain, and this is the 100 foot buffer zone or line. Jane Lowell,
the mother, has a 76 acre parcel. This is 100 scale. This is the
76 acre parcel right here. It goes down to County Line Road. She
has no intention of, right now, she's not going to be building on
it, developing it. It's just a remaining parcel. So one thing
that we're requesting is that, on the 76 acre parcel, Lot Number
Five, is to not receive any approvals on the five acre lot, but to
receive Sketch Plan approval on the four, three lots on the west
side of the road, and there is an existing house on it now.
MR. BREWER-I don't follow what you need. I don't underst~nd.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I think, if I could clarify, that 76 acre lot
has to be included in the subdivision, but I think what Mr.. Rourke
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
is asking is that, they ,don't have, at Preliminary, they would
request a w&ive~ from doing topography on that 76 a~res and any
other type of inform at ion.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. ROURKE-They have no p.lans, at" thl s time, for thi s 76 acre
parcel.
MR. BREWER-That's the only thing I didn't understand.
MR. MACEWAN-Can you show me where your 100 foot buffer is from the
wetlands?
MR. ROURKE-This yellow line right here. This is the wetlands, and
this yellow line right here is the 100 foot buffer.' So it's about
500 feet from any buildlng. It's rocky,loamy soil.. It's probably
about five :to ten minute soil. So we don't have any problem with
percolation.
MR. STARK-Okay. John, do you have any othér further q\,1estions?
, I· .
MR. GORALSKI-No. I don't believe so. there are going to be some
waivers that they're go'ing to be asking for, Preliminary, and we'll
work wi th them On their appl ication to make sure everything is
submitted p~opèrly.
MR. STARK-When did you plan on coming in for Prel iminary? Next
month?
MR. ROURKE-Yes.
MR. STÅRK-Ok~y. You do need a motiqn .for the Sketch?
. . t'
MR. SC~ACHNE~-It~~ mpst appropriate. It's kind of vaguely phrased
in the Subdivision ~eg~lations, but it's most appropriate to do a
motion, if possible.
MOTION TO APPROVE SKETCH PLAN SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1996 EDWARD
LOWELL. ET. ~., Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its
ado~tion, seconded by Craig MacEwan:
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Pa Ii ng ,Mr. Rue 1
OLD BUS'INESS:
SUBDIVI'SION NO. 8-1995 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED COLGATE
PHILLIPS, ESTATE/LEIèH BEEMAN OWNER: SAME AS ABOVE ZONE: WR-IA,
C.E.A." APA ,LOCATION: HILLMAN RD.jCLEVERDALE, RD. APPLICANT
PROPOSES TO .SUBDIVIDE A 12..68 ACRe LOT INTO 3 LOTS OF 8.27 AC.,
2.08 .AC., & 2.11 AC. TAX MAP NO. 12.-3-2.7 LOT SIZE: 12.68 ACRES
SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
JOHN CAFFRY, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 8-1995 PRELIMINARY STAGE, Colgate
PhilLips Estate/Leigh Beeman, Meeting pate: April 16, 1996 "The
applicant is proposing to subdivide a 12.68 acre lot into 3
residential lots on Cleverdale Rd. The only issue with this
- 6 -
'''-"
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
application appears to be stormwater runoff and drainage on these
3 lots. Staff would offer a stipulation requiring a grading plan
to be submitted with theapplicåtion for ~ building permit for new
structures within this subdivision. All corrnnents provided by Rist
Frost should be addressed by the applicant prior to any approval of
this subdivision."
MR. GORALSKI-Bill Levandowski, from Rist-Frost, is here. You might
want to just go over any concerns he has.
BILL LEVANDOWSKI
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Our letter, addressed to James Martin, Town of
Queensbury, reference Colgate Estates, Beeman Subdivision,
Preliminary Stage, Subdivision No. 8-1995 "Dear Mr. Martin: We
have performed .~ review of the above pla~ received April 10, 1996
and have the following engineering comments. Previous corrments
concerning stormwater control have been ~ddressed in the Stormwater
Management Report received April 10, 1996. The conceptual design
for stormwater retention is acceptable. The report indicates that
there will be no major change in pre and post development drainage
which would significantly affect downstream properties. No
construction details supporting the stormwater management concepts
including clearing limitations, lot grading, roof and driveway
drainage collectiqn and conveyance to driveway/storage areas,
permeab i I i ty of the side slopes 0 f the d r i veway /s torage areas,
erosion control measure, etc. are shown on the pnms. Appropriate
notes regarding temporary ponding should be included oncthe p¡ans.
The detail sheet for the proposed sewage system conforms to Section
136-10 for fill systems required for the inadequate depth of soil
due to seasonally high groundwater. Separations, slopes and
various design parameters are properly noted. Percolation tests
and test pit notes are included. Details are suff~cient for
preliminary stage. We believe a short form EAF Is required with
the submittal. Please call if you have any questi9ns.Very truly
yours, Rist-Frost Associates, P.C. William J.j Levaridowski, P.E."
MR. STARK-Okay. John, I thought we said there was a Long Form
because of the C.E.A.?
MR. GORALSKI-Well, typically, when we have a subdivision we use a
Long Form, and I spoke to the applicant's represent:àtive today
about giving us a revised EAF because of the change to a three lot
subdivision, and maybe they could address that.
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you identify yourself, please.
MR. CAFFRY-I'm John Caffry. I'm the attorney for the applicant,
Leigh Beeman, who's here with me, and Tom Jarrett, who's our
engineer on this. Yes. Somebody from the Planning staff called
yesterday and asked for a revised EAF on this, becaQse th~ project
has been changed, al though the change is to cr ea te'" 1 ess impac t
ra~her than more. We did do a revised,EAF,and I brought copies of
that. ,They also asked for addi tiona.l copies ,of the' $~\yage, or
septic system design that we submitted last y~ar. , It's the'ì;ame
plan. It hasn't changed, and we've go1; additional'copies for the
Board members. So we do have the full EAF. I t~rnk þecause of the
chahge in the SEQRA Regulations, this is no longer a. Type I action.
So it doesn't require a full EAF anymore, but there's no harm in
giving you more information than less. So we did a full EAF. I
can give that to the Board members now, if you'd like that.
MR. STARK-Sure. Mark, is that okay if we go to the Long instead of
the Short?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes.
Caffry's correct.
I think that's very appropriate.
I think Mr.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. BREWER-The only question I've got, George, is right here, when
we tabled this, we ~sked for models, and ~he models that you have
are sufficient?
MR. LEVANDQWSKI-YouLmean the mathematical calculations?
~ ~. \ ¡ ¡
MR. BREWER-Yes, the models, runoff.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes.
resolution.
That's specifically stated in your previous
MR. BREWER-"A model for all four lots, separation distances
stormwater management and septics." That's what we specifically
asked for. 'Is that information you have sufficient ,to that point?
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Was that one of QYL comments?
MR. BREWER-That was our request when we tabled this, back in
September.
MR. STARK-A model of all f,our lots, separation distance and
stormwat~r m~nagement and septics.
TOM JARRETT
MR. JARRETT-If I could jump in and help you. The report that we
revised and subm~tted in March does inclu<ie designs for the two new
lots and those four new lots, in addition to the remainder, have
now been r~.vised downward to two new lo,ts, plus the I'emainder, and
our r epor t i nc 1 udes spec¡,f i c des ign15 foX each of thos e lots. I
believe that's what the intent of those corrments.
MR. BREW,ßRß-Righ to .I clon' t douQt that. I'm not an eng i n~er . I
just wanted to make sure that what we asked for we got, and our
eogineer looked at it as sufficient, that's all.
-',' -i
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-I would concur.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. STARK-Okay. John, are you satisfied with Rist-Frost's reports,
all these concerns have been met and so on?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, I believe so. I think the outstanding issues
really are the specific grading. They gave, toe term Tim uses
"models" of the grading. In order to ensure that when somebody
comes in for a building pernlit, that they actually conform to the
grading plans, what we request is that, with the building permit
application, a g~ading and stormwater plan be p~ovided, and that we
would recommend that YO\l put a condi t ion on it that that be
reviewed by the Staff and,by Rist-Frosi at the time of the building
per m its u bm i s s ion, and t hat i f we h a v e a pro b 1 em wit hit, the y
would then have to come back to the Planning Board to modify their
approval.
MR. BREWER-Grading and stormwater plan.
MR. GORALSK I -Ri g-h t .
LEVANDOWSKI-That's d· I, j
MR. correct.
,
MR. STARK-Okay. Well, the public hearing ,was tabled.
anyone wish to speak:for or against this project?
So does
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
NO COMMENT
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-Okay. We'll go into the Long FormSEQRA.
MR. GORALSKI-You might want to just take a minute to go through,
maybe, John, can you maybe highlight what changes have been made on
Part I of that EAF.
MR. CAFFRY-Since we were here last, the major site modification
that's been made, aside from coming up with additional details on
the stormwater plan, is that the subdivision has been reduced from
two new lots, or from four new lots to two new lots, and the main
thing that lead us to that was we had a potential buyer come along,
and we do actually have a buyer under contract for orie of the lots,
but he wadtedt~o lots. He didn't want one acre. He wanted two
acres. So we said, as long as we're doing that, we ought to
consolidate some of the lots and so' we went to a two lot
subdivision. That also made it easier to come up with a stormwater
plan that would meet the Town's requirements. So, the major
changes are really just in the description of the prOject, in
reducing the number of lots, and it also means less land is being
cleared, and all of that. So those are the only real changes to
the Environmental Assessment Form. The background data, in terms
of the soils and all that, remains the same.
MR. STARK-Okay.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 8-1995, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Craig MacEwan:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Plannin~. Board
COLGATE PHILLIPS ESTATE/LEIGH BEEMAN,' and
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this BOard is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken b~ this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of:hon-sigrt\lficanèe or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
Duly adopted t,his 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr: Brewt:r, Mr. MacEw&n, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. paling, Mr. Ruel
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1995
COLGATE PHI+LIPS E~TAJE/LEIGH BEEMAN, Introduced by Timothy Brewer
who moved for its adpption, seconded by Catherine LaBombard:
One condi tion, grading and stormwater plan be submi tted to the
Planning Office before building permit is issued for each lot.
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. STARK-Mr. Caffry, when did you plan on coming in for Final?
,MR. CAFFRY~Hopefully, next month.
MR. STARK-It has to be next, month, John?
MR. GORALSKI-It doesn"t have to be.
,M~. STARK-Noþbecause a lot of times we ,do the Preliminary one week
and the: Pinal the next week.
MR. GORAL$,KI-We dQn't have a Final submission.
MR. STARK-Fin~. We'IJ see you next month.
MR. CAFFRY~Thank you.
NEW BUS I NESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 9-96 TYPE: UNLI$T~D TOYS R US OWNER: ALBANY
PUBLIC MARKETS - C/O NIGRO COMPANIES LOCATION: 708-714 UPPER GLEN
ST., FORMER GRAND UNION BUILDING THE VACANT GRAND UNION
SUPERMARKET BLDG. ,WILL BE RENOVATED AND, R~OPENAS A TOYS nRn US
STORE. THE FOLLOWING EXTERIOR CHANGES ARE PROPOSED: A NEW ENTRY
VESTIBULE (540 SQ. FT.) &: ENTRY WALKWAY, A 20' EXTENSION OF A
PLANTING MEDIAN &: A NEW SIGN, FRONTAGE LANDSCAPING ON RT. 9.
BEAUTI~ICATION COMM.: 4/8/96 WARREN CO. PLANNING: '4/10/96 TAX
MAP NO. 98-5-3.1 LOT SIZE: 3.25 ACRES SECTION: 179-27.1
STEVE PPWERS & STEPHANIE DECARLO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 9-96, Toys ~'~" Us, Meeting Date:
April 16, 1996 "The applicant is proposing to move into the
vacant Grand Union building on Route 9. As a part of this site
plan, the applicant proposes to construct a new 540 square foot
vestibule t,p the front of the building.· Staff has reviewed this
site plan and has the following comments. An ingress/egress
divider for the southerly drive aisle is required by the Zoning
Ordinance. The applicant must provide the divider or seek relief
of, this requir,ement from the ZBA. Currently, the parking lot in
front of the store ha_parking stalls which are no~ set back from
the property 1 ine on Route 9. Staff would reconmend that the
- 10 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
parking stalls that are currently shown as being on the property
line be móved away fiom this line. The drive aisle behind these
parking spaces could be reduced to a width of 24 feet. This would
provide for approximately 8 feet of space between the property line
and the new parking spaces. This area could be incorporated into
the landscaping plan as green space between the parking lot and
Route 9 right of way. The configuration of the curb cut at the
north end of the property is subject to review and approval by the
NYS Department of Transportation."
MR. GORALSKI-Warren County approved with the condition that the
signage conforms with the Queensbury Sign Ordinance.
Beautification Committee has reviewed the site plan, a motion to
accept the plan as submitted. They acceþted it as submitted, I
guess, and we have a letter from New York State DOT. Would you
like me to read that?
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-"We have reviewed the plan submitted with your note
recei ved here on Apr ill, 1996 and the plan submi tted wi th Ms.
Stephanie DeCarlo's April 2, 1996 letter. Our comments are as
follows: 1) We have no objection to t~e remov~l of the asphalt
pavement between the sidewalk and parking lot within the highway
right-of-way. Replacement óf the pavement with grasS and street
trees in a manner similar to the area north of the right in right
out drive is acceptable. 2) Installation of an end island on the
north end of the double row of parking as shown on the attached
sketch is required. 3) The circulation aisle closest to Route 9
as designed is a dead end and in peak times will result in drivers
backing out into the northern entrance. An outlet as shówn on the
attached sketch is required. Reducing the parking stalls from 10
feet to 9 feet will accomplish this with no reduction in the ndmber
of spaces provided. 4) The northerly drive at the traffic signal
is acceptable as is. Installation of an island separating entering
and exiting traffic will require that the' drive be widened 4 to 6
feet and would need to be done in a manner that lines up the lanes
with the drive on the east side. Our experience recently has been
that at times these islands create more problems than they solve
with vehicles running up and over the island. Our practice f~ to
design major signalized retail entrances as an artificial highway
and use of a raised island is not consistent with' oUr tfesign
practice. 5) We see no need to close the right out portion of the
\northerly drive. This al16ws Albank traffic to exit the site
without circulating through'\:he' Tóys "R"Us lot. If you havè any
questions on 'th)s, please contact Mark Kennedy at 474-6377. Very
truly youts, William E. Logan'''Regforí~1 Tràffi6 Engin,eer""
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you ideritify yourselves, please.)
MS. DIKARLO-Stephanie DeCarlo, from Lehman Architects. I represent
Toys "R" Us.
MR. POWERS-My name is Steve Powers,
representing the property owner.
with N i grò' Company,
,,1
MR. STARK-Okay. You have a copy of our Staff Notes from John, and
also a letter from the DOT?
MRS. DECARLO~Yes.
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you care to address those two comments, or
the two letters?
MRS. DECARLO-Okay. First of all, I don't know'if you have any
questions. Currently, the site plan and the landsca~ing plan are
not the same. That's the landscaping plan that was presented to
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
the Beautification Committee. This is the plan submitted to the
Beautification Committee. This line is a little 'off.. It's not
really grass. As far as the DOT's concerned, originally, Mr.
Martin asked ,us to address, the DOT concerning the right in right
out" ~nd see if. it needed the geometry changed, and Mark Kennedy
said no~ ! Mark Kennedy then went on and made some, suggestions
regarding the site, and some percolation cOrIllI)ents. We added the
islands, as per the planning and as per the DOT. We added also a
few more addi1;ipnal islands, and plan;tings, as per the
Beautification Committee. We feel that, first of all, the parking
is existing, and we'd prefer not to re-stripe and do anything.
We:'re already going in. We're planting as per the Ordinance. We
are upg,rading this old ,abandoned Grand Uni.on building. It's going
to be,. an all brand new"bright shiny Toys "R" Us. We're investing
almost a million dollars into this, ,if 'not more, and as far as the
circulation is concerned, it seems to work. We added some islands.
Mark Kennedy seemed to be a little concerned about this dead end.
Jim Martin, when we met, really didn't have a problem with it. It
happened to be a 32 foot aisle and, therefore, people could make a
turn around without any problem. That's why we're here, as far as
your comments. We'd prefer not to change it. We will insist it's
not a problem. If you do make us change this, we request that we
leave the 32 foot wide aisle space the way it is because when we do
that, we only have 22 feet, and the new aisle that~s created, and
that's, I think 24 is what's required, and I just feel, I
personally feel, and so does Toys "R" Us, that it ,gives a little
bit wider access for cars to make the turn and circulate in this
area.
MR. MACEWAN-Not to interrupt you, but if they had to go that route,
and ended up w~th a 22 foot wide aisle, wouldn't they have to come
in and get a v4riance?
MR. GORALSKI-Np, actually" 24 feet is what the Planning, Board has
kind of decided they would prefer, but the Ordinance says 20 ~eet.
MR. MACEWAN-What's the problem DOT has with that island? I don't
understand.
MR. GORAL-SKI-Which island?
MR. MACEWAN-The one she's referring to.
MRS. DECARLO-First of all, it was shorter, originally.
MR. GORALSKI-Right. They want to elongate them so you can't get
out right there.
MRS. DECARLO-Because, originally, the DOT had a problem with the
add~tional cars pulli~g in with the traffic light, at the
signalized intersection, and cutting off cars pulling into the
site. So they asked us to close it, which we did, and then it
created another situatiqn, which is a dead end at the end of the
parking lot.
MR. BREWER-How big of a space is that between those?
MRS. DECARLO-Currently, the tail end of each space?
MR. BREWER-No. The space that they suggested you close, how wide
of a space is that?
MRS. DECARLO-It was an actual drive through, so maybe it was 24
feet. I don't know that dimension. We only closed it so that cars
would not be able to pull into the intiersection and block incoming
traffic to the additional site, and start the cuing effect onto
Route 9. So we closed this up, as they requested, and thus
- 12 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
creating another little situation.
If you have any questions.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-I don't have anything additional. There is one thing.
I know this comes up a lot, and it's probably something we have to
address, but right now, the Zoning Ordinanée says that there has to
be a physical separation between ingress and egress.
MR. STARK-The State doesn't care for that, does it?
MR. GORALSK I ....Righ t. The S ta te doesn~ t car e for that, bu t they
still have to provide that, they would have to then provide that on
the, out of the right-of-way, on their property, at this point,
unless they wanted to go to the Zoning Board and get a v~riance.
There's nothing we can do about that. It s~ys it in the variance.
It says it in the Ordinance.
MR. BREWER-Even if it's preexisting?
MRS. DECARLO-It's an existing parking lot.
MR. BREWER-What are they modifying, I mean, other than putting
plantings and stuff in?
MR. MACEWAN-A modification's a modification.
degree of what the modification is.
It doesn't give a
MR. BREWER-Well, actually, they're putting islands
everything else in the parking lot.
in and
MRS. DECARLO-Excuse· me. We came before the Board as a change in
use. Okay. By doing that, they asked us if we would comply to the
Beautification of the City, and by doing that, we added the
planting, a.nd then it started to snowball, because the City also
wanted to know about the right in right out. So we created a plan
for the State, and we took it to the DOT, and also the DOT made all
these other conments. Right now it's an abandoned, unused
building, and we've tried to comply as best possible, but we're
here for a change in use, and we're doing the best to be a very
good neighbor and fit into the rest of the surroundings in the
area.
MR. GORALSKI-Well, two things. First of all, when you come in for
a site plan review, regardless of what causes you to require a site
plan review, you're open to all of the items that are reviewed in
a site plan review. Okay. Now, as far as whether or not, because
this is a pre-existing situation, whether or not they're required
to.
MR. BREWER-It doesn't make a difference. I'm just thinking of
across the street, Red Lobster, the same thing. They did it.
MR. SCHACHNER-That wasn't a pre-existing building, tho~gh.
MR. MACEWAN-That was a separate lot.
MR. BREWER-Well, a pre-existing lot, though, Mark, the same thing
we're talking about.
MR. MACEWAN-No, because that was a separate entity from the Plaza.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes, but they did not, there is no physical separation
between the ingress and egress.
MR. BREWER-On Red Lobster there isn't?
- 13 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. GORALSKI-There is on the Red Lobster building, but not on the
entrance to the Plaza.
MR. STARK-There's no island there, you know, like raised.
MR. BREWER-Well, after you get in there is.
MR. SCHACHNER-To get into the Plaza in the f irst plac~,: ~orrect,
but to first get into the Plaza, I don't believe there is.
MR. GORALSKI-Steve, maybe you can answer this. Do you know if this
Grand Union building ever had a site plan review? I don't know how
long you folks have owned it, but.
MR. POWERS-We don't own it. It's owned by Albany Public Markets,
Wise Markets out of Pennsylvania. , The building was built, I
beli~ve, in the early 70's, and then it was expanded in the late
70's.
MR. GORALSKI-I' think, really,at this point, it would be your
discretion.
.'
MR. STARK-Mark, what do you think? Do they need a island or not?
MR. SCHACHNER-I think that the fact that it's a pre,-existing
building, lets look at it this way. The analogy, John and I have
jus t been wh i sper ing back and for th, aþou t th is. An analogy we
could make is, lets s~y this was, you know, applicants frequently
come before us seeki~g minor modifi~ations of previously approved
site plans. If it waß ,a previously approved site plan, and we're
not sure if it was or not, because we don'tknow.what the vintage
of itis, but lets just say it wast then'we.'d be saying that's pre-
existing. We would not, typically, assuming it was a minor
modification, we would not typically force compliance with the new
provision regarding physical separation. That's my opinion. I
don't think the Board would typically insist on that if it was a
minor modification. It seems to me that this is a building and an
access, ingress/egress situation that's been there for a long time.
So I think our view is if the Board feel that you don't want to
require that, we don't see the need to require that. Obviously, if
you think it's appropriate, you certainly can require it.
MR. STARK-Tim, you think it's needed or not?
MR. BREWER-We didn't actually do that with Empire Video. So
don't have a problem with not doing that, but I would like to see
that space closed off where the island is coming up through. I
don't think that's a bad idea. I don't have a problem not making
them put up a (lost words).
MR. STARK-They are going to close that, one off.
MR. BREWER-Didn't you say that you wanted to leave that open?
MRS. DECARLO-Currently, it is open, and we ,did want to leave it
open, bu t bas ed on DOT's cOrmlen t s, and ac tuall y Jim Mar tin 0 r
George felt that it should be closed.
MR. BREWER-I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.' I thought you wanted to
leave it open.
MR. POWERS-No, it is proposed to be closed.
MR. STARK-No, Tim. That's crazy. You'v~ been there.
pulling out there.
It's tough
MRS. DECARLO-We just need a little bit for stormwater drainage to
- 14 -
(Queens bury Zoning Board of Appeals)
go in the right direction.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes.
MR. BREWER-It's not enough room for a car though?
MR. POWERS-No.
It's three 'feet.
MR. BREWER-That's why, because on your drawing, it shows it closed
or whatever, but on this one here, there's a separation. I didn't
know how big that was.
MRS. DECARLO-I'm sorry.
I thought you meant 24 feet originally.
MR. BREWER-No, no.
I don't have a problem not having that there.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I'm just glad that you have that barrier up there.
That can be so dangerous coming out of there. This has nothing to
do with you, but at this point, I would just like to say that the
entrance on the north side is so tight when you're going south and
you have to pull in. We did thebther day, and I shopped at that
grocery store for two decades, and I was fine until that little
median was put in there, and that berm was extended. It's just so
tight in there, but I guess nobody's gotten into an accident. So
we have to leave it there, and you're right, it's DOT, but I just
wanted tò put it on record how I felt.
MR. MACEWAN-I guess I don't have a problem with leaving as it is,
existing. I was just thinking about some recent site plans that
we've approved, some that are on the drawing board now, where we're
looking to have these things put in, and what kind of potential
problems, down that· road, is that going to get from future
applicants who say, well, gee, we didn't allow it here, but you're
making us go through it.
MR. SCHACHNER-Do you mean the physical separations, the islands?
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
I'm talKing about the median.
MR. STARK-Perry Noun Associates down here, for one. Wè made him
pu tin.
MR. GORALSKI-Those are all new projects.
MR. STARK-Yes, I know.
MRS. LABOMBARD-See, I think that because this is existing, we don't
have to worry about.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. That would be the distinction. We do not have
the authority, on a new project, we do not have the authority, this
Board, to waive that anyway, because it's a requirement of the
Zoning Ordinance, not the Subdivision or site plan regulations. So
that is something that a new applicant, for a new project not with
a pre-existing ingress/egress situation would have to comply with
or get relief from theZBA.
MR. BREWER-Just one other question about maybe a couple of more
trees in this long section out in front. There's four trees in
there. Maybe a couple of more.
MR. STARK-That's a pretty long area there.
MRS. DECARLO-Well, when we met with the site plan committee and
with Jim Martin, we were talking about since we wanted, originally,
a larger sign, okay, and it was brought to our attention that
Queensbury doesn't ever grant variances in signs. So Jim Martin
- 15 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
compromised at the meeting, saying that we could put two on either
~ide, so;that there would be abetter view of the sign. That's why
iit was arranged that way, and the Beautification Conmittee accepted
it.
MR. BREWER-I just think it's a long distance, that two more trees
wouldn't hurt, just to separate, I mean, how long is that? Do you
have a scale?
MR. STARK-It's got to be 100 feet at least.
MR. POWERS-There's a bar scale on the bottom, an inch, equals thirty
feet.
MR. GORALSKI-One inch equals thirty feet.
MR. GORALSKI-You've got 14 spaces there that are 10 foot spaces.
MRS. DECARLO-They're nine foot.
MR. GORALSKI-They're nine feet now.
MRS. DECARLO-In that location.
MR. GORALSKI-Okay.
MR. BREWER-I don't want to make a big deal of it, but
thought it would be a nice idea.
just
MR. STARK-Yes. You're talking 120 feet, you know, 125 feet. You
only have two trees befor,e, two trees afterward, the sign.
MRS. DECARLO-We have no trees on the site currently. We put in 13
on the plan.
MR. STARK-It's going to be all grassed.
MRS. DECARLO-All grassed, and it's going to be heavily planted on
the rear edge of the entrances, with shrubs, annuals~ bulbs, and
it's supposed to be heavy planting on either side
MR. BREWER-Then you'd rather not put two more trees in, then, is
what you're saying?
MRS. DECARLO-I don't know, it was accepted by Jim Martin and the
Beautification.
MR. BREWER-I don't want to debate it all night. I just thought it
was a nice idea.
MR. STARK-There's no plantingson the ~nds right now, and they are
planting it.
MR. MACEWAN-I'd like to see a couple of more as well.
MR. BREWER-I agree your building is nice. I don't have a problem
with it. I just think that it would make it look nicer.
MR. MACEWAN-We did it with your project over there, with Taco Bell
and the Bank and Blockbuster Video, so, I mean, here's another
spot, and this is what Jim Martin wan,ts us to do.
~. STARK-Well, you're talking a consensus of about 125 feet, with
four trees. That's 30 feet apart.
MR. GORALSKI-Actually, I think it's a-ctually more than that. I
think it's a little more than, 130 feet. If you put one more tree
- 16 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
on either side, at 60 feet. You still have 70 feet in the middle.
MR. BREWER-There's plenty of room there. People know the building.
They're going to know it's there. They're going to go see it.
MR. STARK-If you make a motion, include that then, okay.
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MR. STARK-Okay. I'd like to open the public hearing now. Is there
anyone who wishes to speak for or against this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
ED MOORE
MR. MOORE-I'm Ed Moore, representing the Queensbury Businessman's
Association, and I just had a couple of questions. How wide is
this? It says eight feet. How wide is that green area between the
road and the parking lot?
MRS. DECARLO-Whatever the right-of-way is.
MR. MOORE-Eight feet?
MR. STARK-It's going to be.
MR. MOORE-Here, it says eight feet.
MR. STARK-It's going to be more, though.
MR. GORALSKI-From the sidewalk to the parking lot, is that what
you're looking for?
MR. MOORE-From the sidewalk to the parking lot. How wide is that
green area?
MR. GORALSKI-Fifteen feet.
MR. MOORE-Because it says on here, eight feet, because eight feet
is nothing, but it shows here, it appears to be mor~ like 20 feet.
MR. STARK-They're increasing it from what's there now.
MR. BREWER-I wrote eight feet on one of the plans I had here.
MR. GORALSKI-It looks like it ranges anywhere from 10 to 15 feet,
10 to, actually, 12 or 13 feet.
MRS. DECARLO-Where does it say eight feet?
MR. BREWER-I thought I saw it on here.
MR. MOORE-"This would provide approximately eight feet of space
between the property lihe and the new parking sp~ces."
MRS. DECARLO-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-That's if they moved it.
MRS. DECARLO-That's if we moved this entire line onto the property
line, and narrowed the aisle way.
MR. GORALSKI-It would be eight feet in addition to what's ShOWh on
that plan.
MR. MOORE-To what's shown there already.
- 17 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MRS. DECARLO-Okay, and we were discussing that if we pushed all
these spaces to nine feet, at twenty-four, anybody trying to turn
in, or even come in that way, it's going to be very narrow, from 22
feet to, 24, feet, making a turn.
MR. MOORE-My
spaces fal 1
building to
.required?
next question would be, then,
wi thin the parameters of the
allow more or less, are they
how does the parking
square feet of the
in line with what's
MR. GORALS~I-It meets the requirements, the parking r:equirements.
MR. MOORE-It meets the parkillg requirements?
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MRS. DECARLO-If we shrink th.ese spaces, we re not reducing or
takLngany spaces away. We're going from ten feet to nine feet.
MR. MOORE-That's what you're proposing and that's what you're going
to do?
MRS. DECARLO-That's what (lost words) by DOT.,
MR. BREWER-That's what's in the Ordinance.
MR. MOORE-Right. Because I'm in accordance, and I think the QBA's
in accordance with what the Planning Board is trying to move toward
beautifying that area, and you've done such a nice job with the
Taco Be 1 1 and the Blockbuster, I th Lnk we should continue to do
that, and I'm sure the QBA would go along with that and have great
emphasis- on that" continuing to 'P\Jsh that green ,an~a, with the
maximum allowance of green area. That would be my comments, and I
would hope that the Board would.
MR. BREWER-I think that's exactly why we were pushing for more
tre.es'.
MR. MOORE-Right, but if there was even more available, I would say
do more, for my point of view. I mean, if there's an island there
or something you could.
MR. BREWER-There is. They've added islands.
MR. MOORE-I see that, but anyhow, that is going to be 24 feet at
least?
MR. GORALSKI-The green area is going to be about 15 feet, from the
sidewalk to the parking.
MRS. DECARLO-Curb line.
MR,. BREWER-So actually you'll have 20 feet, because of the curb and
th~ side walk and then their green space.
MR. MOORE-Well, I just wanted to let you knowhow people feel, and
I think more trees would make it better, like you said. They're
going to know where the Toys "R" Us is. Every kid in Town is going
to know where the Toys "R" Us is.
MR. STARK-Thank you. Does anyone else wish to comment, for or
against this project?
MR,. GORALSKI - I have a 1 et ter.
MR. STARK-You have a letter. Okay.
- 18 -
(Óueensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. GORALSKI-"Dear Mr. Martin: On behalf of the ownership of
Queensbury Plaza, Ilene Flaum and Flaum Management Cornpany,ðnd on
behalf of the Howard Group I wish to submit this letter to you to
be read into the record at the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
Meet i ng on Tuesday, Apr i 1 16, 1996 rela t i ng to the above noted
project. It is our'opinion, as owners of adjoining and competing
property directly acro~s the street from the subject property, that
we are fully in favor of the developmentànd re-utilization of the
former Grand Union bu il ding for a Toys "R" Us faci 1 i ty. We we lcome
the re-development of this vacant property into one which we know
will be a substantial commerce generator for the Queensbury area.
In addition, we wish to convey our willingness and support to
locate this premier retailer in Queensbury, New York. The location
of a Toys "R" Us store in this market reconfirms our commitrhent
that the Queensbury/Glens Falls area is extremely viable in terms
of the retail marketplace, and one which will continue tb flourish
and grow into the future. In the event we can be of any assistance
to ei ther yourselves or the developers of the project we would
appreciate your call ing upon us. Sincerely, THE HOWARD GROUP
MANAGEMENT CO., INC. Howard Carr, President"
MR. STARK-Thank you. Okay.
I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-Okay. We need a Short Form.
MR. MOORE-I just wanted to say, do you ever talk about what type of
trees to put in there?
MR. STARK-Tim will get into that when the motion is made.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 9-96, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before
TOYS "R" US, and
the
Planning
Board'
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal a&ency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulationg of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Ënvironmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York) this Board finds that
- 19 -
(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law~
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
NOES.: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. STARK-Tim, would you like to make the motion and include in
there the extra trees and what type of trees.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE: PLAN NO. 9-96 TOYS"R" US, Introduced by
Timothy Brewer who moved for its adopt ion, seconded by George
Stark:
One condition, that the addition of two trees be added in the new
lawn to the front of the parking lot, two locusts, two and a half
inch caliper.
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
MR. MACEWAN-Do we need in there also that that median is going to
be closed off?
MR. GORALSKI - It '.s shown on the plan as being closed off. So they
would have to.
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. POWERS-Thank you very much.
MR. BREWER-When do you anticipate to open?
MRS. DECARLO-Toys "R" Us likes
Thanksgiving, like that weekend.
So they'll be open before then.
to be open the last weekend of
That's th€ latest they'll open.
MR. STARK-Good luck. John, it seems to be the DOT's position that
they don't really care about having islands, you know, and I've
gotten this a couple of times, but yet our Ordinance says there has
to be an island, and they're a pain for plowing.
MR. GORALSKI-Absolutely.
MR. STARK-How do we address that? I mean, I know we have to have
an island.
MR. BREWER-The Town Board has to change it.
MR. GORALSKI -Well, the Town Board has to change, the Zoning
Ordinance.
MR. STARK-How do we gOd about doing that?
even do it?
I mean, if we want to
MR. GORALSKI-Well, I would recommend that the Planning Board send
a letter to the Town Board stating that, you know, you feel that
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
this is inappropr iate and that you'd like it changed in the
Ordinance.
MR. STARK-How do yoU feel about that?
MR. GORALSKI-The way it's being implemented now is dangerous and
worthless. If you were actually going to build an actual curve
wi th a planter or something in the middle of it, then maybe it
would have some purpose, but just simply putting a concrete bump
there serves no purpose at all.
MR. STARK-Maybe we should wait until the full Board meets and then
we could possibly hash out, maybe draft a letter then to send to
the Town Board, and maybe they could change the Ordinance then.
MR. SCHACHNER-And'I think if you do that, reference a DOT posi,t1on,
because I think that's a compelling thing, and it puts the Board in
an awkward position if we have to enforce a provision of the Town
Zoning Ordinance in the face of the State ageÚcy that govérns
traffic saying don't do this. I mean, the letter today really says
that they don't favor it.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MRS. DECARLO-I have a question. I'm a little unclear about the
resolution regarding, the median was settled.
MR. GORALSKI-Right.
MRS. DECARLO-How about the additional pushing of spaces?
MR. GORALSKI-No. Everything is exactly the same as the plan that
you submitted.
MRS. DECARLO-The landscaping plan.
MR. GORALSKI-Right, the entire plan.
MRS. DECARLO-Well, the site plan currently is not as the
landscaping plan, because time did not allow C.T. Male, the Civil
Engineers, to update the current submitted sit~ plan.
MR. BREWER-Then lets accept the landscaping plan.
MR. GORALSKI - I 'm
received April 9,
confused, then. I have something
1996. That's the landscaping plan.
that
was
MRS. DECARLO-This is the site plan.
MR. GORALSKI-I'm glad you came back.
MR. POWERS-This is existing, with the exception of this island.
MRS. DECARLO-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-I would modify the resolution. I can suggest some
language. Okay. What happened was, the original plan that was
submitted did not show some of the islands that DOT, in discussions
with Staff, had come up with. So what I would reconunénd is that
the motion be re-worded to state that, site plan as depicted in
landscaping pl~n, L-l, as dated February 27, 1996, and revised on
April 8, 1996, be the plan that the approval is based on.
MR. STARK-You mean rescind the other motion and make a new motion?
MR. SCHACHNER-Or move to modify the previous motion, either one is
fine.
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(Queens bury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MOTION TO AMEND APPROVAL OF SITE PLAN NO. 9-96 TOYS "R" US,
Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Timothy Brewer:
To reflect 1 that the plan put in fro!)! of us tonight was the
landscaping plan, identified as L-l, drawn on 2/27/96, revised on
4/8/96.
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
MR. SCHACHNER-And that's the plan that's the basis of your motion
for your approval.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes, it is.
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. BREWER-What about the letter that we got back fronl Jim? Did
everybody read that?
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. STARK-Concerning McDonough?
MR. GORALSKI-Ermiger's, the go kart track.
MR. BREWER-Ermiger's. I still don't quite understand his
interpretation of that, or my interpretation of his letter.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I have McDonough's letter.
MR. STARK-I have McDonough's letter.
MR. BREWER-You didn't get Jim's letter?
MR. STARK-No.
MR. MACEWAN-,It came mailed separately last week some time.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. I read it.
haven't read this yet.
I wish I had: read this.
MR. BREWER-Just in my opinion, I didn't bring the letter with me
tonight, but I have trouble understanding it, because he talks
about structure in one zone versus another zone, and I think a
structure should apply in any zone, no matter what zone it is.
MR. SCHACHNER-I, haven't seen the letter, but the definition of
structure is whatever it is, regardless of zone. I agree with
that.
MR. BREWER-Right. Well, I think the way he worded it, and help me
if 1'm wrong, Craig, the way he interprets structure as applies in
HC-l zones, applies to buildings, right?
MR. MACEWAN-Something with a roof.,
MR. BREWER-Something with a roof.
indicate that.
Well a structure doesn't
MR. GORALSKI-No, a building, the definition of a building requires
a roof. The definition of a structure doesn't.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. BREWER-Right. The way Jim wrote that letter to us.
MR. STARK-Then this is not a structure, is that what you're saying?
MR. BREWER-No. I'm saying it is a structure.
the word "building" applies in the HC-l zone.
racetrack isn't a structure.
Jim's saying that
So he's saying the
MR. STARK-You're saying it is a structure.
MR. BREWER-I'm saying it is a structure, because it is, according
to the definition of a structure~
MRS. DECARLO-We're back again.
MR. POWERS-I have one other question. In the DOT letter, it
references, on the side of that revised island which we had
extended down toward Route 9, an in and out lane would be needed,
in the place of those three parking spaces. Are we going based on
the DOT letter, or are we going based on the site plan?
MR. BREWER-On the site plan.
MR. STARK-That's a closed off.
MRS. DECARLO-Yes, but there was an aisle way created by reducing
the 10 foot spaces to 9 foot spaces, and creating an aisle along
that extended curb.
MR. STARK-Right.
MRS. DECARLO-Are we going with that?
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. BREWER-No. We're going with what we said tonight, right?
MRS. DECARLO-We've said a lot tonight. We just want it clarified.
MR. STARK-We didn't get into this island, or this runway there,
like, alongside the planter.
MR. BREWER-No. We don't want an aisle between the planter and the.
MR. POWERS-That's my question.
MR. BREWER-I don't think we would want an aisle between, how wide
6f an aisle?
MR. GORALSK I - I n other words, so you don't end up with' a dead end
there.
MR. STARK-You know how you would cut out left there. You don't
want to go that way, you would take right, go up and then pullout
into your exit lane. You should have an aisle there.
MRS. DECARLO-That's what I assumed, but it wasn't included. Mark
Kennedy told us a lot in: that letter.
MR. STARK-This is out, okay. You're going to come in here, park
here, rather than turn around and go back out thi sway, here
there's going to be, so you can't come out here anymore, so you
walk this way and then take a left out, and come out, or you can
come in this way, and go, and park here.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I don't understand why there's a discrepancy.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. MACEWAN-The problem is that the two plans should have been done
together at the same time, as one plan. When they did this plan,
it wasn't revised in time with the landscaping plan to reflect the
changes that they made in it. That's my understanding of what she
said.
MR. STARK-We
going west.
really need
right now?
want an aisle there, a drive aisle going east, one
I mean, that makes sense to have that there. You
an aisle there to drive in. Okay. How does it stand
MR. GORALSKI-Based on the plan that there's no aisle there.
MR. BREWER-Why don't we rescind our two previous motions.
MR. GORALSKI-And make a whole new motion.
MR. BREWER-And make one motion.
MR. STARK-Fine. Make the motion to rescind..
MR. BREWER-Okay.
MOTION TO RESCIND THE PREVIOUS TWO MOTIONS ON SITE PLAN NO. 9-96
TOYS "R" US, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for, its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, 1996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. BREWER-Okay. Do we want to create an aisle here?
MR. STARK-Yes, 1. do. I don't know how YOU feel.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 9-96 TOYS "R" US, Introduced by
Timothy Brewer who moved for its adoption, seconded by George
Stark:
With two conditions, one being that the two trees are added to the
front area where the newly seeded lawn is going to be, trees to be
two and a hal f cali per locus t tr ees, aOQ al so ref er ence DOT's
letter, that the parking spaces be reduced one foot in order to
create an aisle between the parking spaces and the island at the
south end of the parking lot. That the site plan approval is
otherwise based on the landscaping plan, L-l, dated 2/27/96,
revised 4/8/96.
Duly adopted this 16th day of April, L996, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. Ruel
MR. BREWER-I think, George, what we should do is bring Jim's letter
in next week and discuss it when everybody's here and everybody has
it in front of them.
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
MR. STARK-What about Ermiger, or Levack, did he indicate to you
that he's coming back in or what?
MR. GORALSKI-Tom Nace indicated to me that they are doing some
additional research and ~hat they will be resubmitting. That's the
last I heard from him, probably two weeks ago.
MR. STARK-What happened to the window of opportunity for' the
construction of the track?
MR. GORALSKI-I have no idea.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MR. GORALSKI-Someth-ing 1 might mention to you is that we just
received additional information on the Mooring Post. The Zoning
Board is going to pass a motion tomorrow to distribute to all
involved agencies. So you'll be getting some additional
information that was requested by the Zoning Board on that.
MR. BREWER-Just hypothetical, if we wanted to appeal Jim's decision
on the structure, do we still have time to do that?
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. You have 60 days. Right?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes.
MR. GORALSKI-I'm sure that letter's not 60 days old yet.
MR. BREWER-I'm not saying that we re going to.
MR. STARK-That's interesting.
structure?
I mean, why is a structure not a
MR. BREWER-Well, it's funny. Maybe if Jim were here and explained
his version of it, maybe I would understand it. Maybe it's just I
don't understand it.
MR. MACEWAN-Can we get him here next week?
MR. STARK-I would like to know.
MR. GORALSKI-I can ask him.
MR. MACEWAN-Tell him we'd like an àudierice with him next 'Tuesday
night.
MR. GORALSKI-I will let him know.
MR. STARK-That's concrete. That doesn't make any difference. The
other one is macadam. This is concrete. It's more permanent.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but if you look into the definition, George, if it
facilitates the use of the land, then it's a structure.
MR. SCHACHNER-No. Well, there's more to it than that.
MR. GORALSKI-The other point, and like I said, I haven't read Jim's
letter, is that it can be a structure. A structure does not have
to meet the setback. A building has to meet the setback. That was
Jim's basic position.
MR. BREWER-"Any object constructed, installed or permanently placed
on land to facilitate land use and development or subdivision of
land".
MR. GORALSKI-I don't believe he's saying that that track is not a
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(Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals)
structure. What he's saying is that track is not a building, and
the setback applies to buildings.
MR. SCHACHNER-As opposed to structures, and I haven't seen his
letter either, but the definition of, you've accurately recited the
definition of structure, but if setback applies to building as
opposed to structure, the way building is defined is "Any structure
which is permanently affixed to the land, is covered by a roof
supported by columns or walls and is intended for shelter, housing
or enclosure of persons, animals or chattels." So, if in fact, a
setback requirement, I'm speaking without having the benefit of
Jim's letter, but if in fact the setback requirement applies to
buildings as opposed to structures, then I think it's pretty easy
to reach the conclusion that the proposed track is not a building,
and therefore not subject to the setback.
MR. BREWER-Well, I think the confusion, Mark, comes in where he
says that these setbacks apply to buildings in HC-l zones.
MR. SCHACHNER-Again, we don't have the letter.
MR. BREWER-No. I understand. I'm just taking it off the top of my
head.
MR. SCHACHNER-You're correct that it would not be a zone specific
thing.
MR. BREWER-I think that's where my confusion is.
MR. MACEWAN-The way Mark and John have jus t put th is, now
understand where he's coming from.
MR. BREWER-Right, I do, too.
MR. MACEWAN-The analogy that he's using is that, although the berm
and this concrete slab that the track is made up of is a structure,
it does not have to require the setback.
MR. SCHACHNER-Unless it's a building.
MR. MACEWAN-Unless it's a building.
MR. BREWER-See, I think what he's saying is one applies in one zone
and not the other zone, and that's where have a problem.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. If he's saying that, I would agree with you, but
I don't know.
MR. SCHACHNER-We're operating in a vacuum without his letter, but
I doubt that he's doing a zone specific thing. It may be worded
awkwardly, or who knows what, but I doubt that he is intended it as
a zone specific thing.
MR. BREWER-I'll look at the letter tomorrow, and I'll call Jim.
MR. GORALSKI-Give him a call.
MR. BREWER-And if that's the case, then I would like him here, but
if that's not the case, then.
MR. GORALSKI-Yes. Give him a call.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
George Stark, Acting Chairman
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