1996-09-12 SP
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 12, 1996
INDEX
Subdivision No. 6-1996
PRELIMINARY STAGE
FINAL STAGE
Berkshire-Queensbury LLC
Tax Map No. 130-3-18
1.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 9/12/96)
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 12, 1996
4:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
GEORGE STARK
CRAIG MACEWAN
DAVID WEST
TIMOTHY BREWER
MEMBERS ABSENT
ROGER RUEL
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR-JAMES MARTIN
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
NEW BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 6-1996 PRELIMINARY STAGE FINAL STAGE TYPE:
UNLISTED BERKSHIRE-QUEENSBURY LLC OWNERS: KEITH CAVAYERO * ELYSA
BARON ZONE: CR-1S LOCATION: N/2 CORNER OF MAIN STREET & WESTERN
AVENUE PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE A 2.01 ACRE PARCEL INTO TWO
PARCELS OF 1. 01 ACRES AND 1. 00 ACRES. CROS S REFERENCE: A V 23-
1996, SP 8-96 TAX MAP NO. 130-3-18 LOT SIZE: 2.01 ACRES
SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. PALING-Now, we'll do the Preliminary first.
MR. STARK-You have to have a public hearing.
MR. PALING-Yes. Right, when we do the Preliminary, and then we'll
do the Final.
MR. STARK-Then you do the SEQRA. You do the SEQRA, the Preliminary
and the Final.
MR. PALING-Okay. George, do you have any comments?
MR. HILTON-The only comments I have are that this application is
back before us because the time period in which the plat had to be
filed at Warren County expired. Essentially the same plat.
Nothing has changed. All the engineering concerns are being
addressed with the site plan for CVS. They've attached a Full
Environmental Assessment Form for the SEQRA review. Staff has no
problems, feels it meets all the Ordinance requirements and
recommends approval of both applications.
MR. PALING-Okay. Any comments, questions?
MR. MACEWAN-Nothing's changed from the original plans?
MR. STEVES-Nothing.
MR. PALING-All right. Now this is an Unlisted. So we've got to do
a SEQRA, and we will open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
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PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-All right. Lets do the SEQRA, and this is the Full
form, yes. Now, we do the big one?
MR. HILTON-Well, they attached a Full Environmental Assessment
Form. You can do a Short Form.
MR. BREWER-Short Form.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 6-1996, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
WHEREAS, there is presently before the Planning Board an
application for:
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
S. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 12th day of September, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Stark, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. West,
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ruel
MR. PALING-Okay. Then I think we can go to a motion for
Preliminary approval.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-1996
BERKSHIRE-QUEENSBURY LLC, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for
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its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
As submitted.
Duly adopted this 12th day of September, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mrs. LaBombard,
Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ruel
MR. PALING-All right. Now we'll go to the Final Stage of this, and
we do open another public hearing? We've had one public hearing,
that's all we need. We've done SEQRA once. That's all we need.
So we will talk about the Final Stage of this thing. Any comments
or questions?
MR. BREWER-Does that have to be on the agenda Final?
MR. HILTON-We're looking at both app"lications, Preliminary and
Final Stage this evening.
MR. BREWER-No. I understand that, but my question was, the agenda
Preliminary. Does it have to say Final, too on there?
MR. WEST-It says Final, Preliminary Stage, Final Stage.
MR. BREWER-I'm sorry, I didn't read the second one.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It says both, Tim.
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 6-1996 BERKSHIRE-
QUEENS BURY LLC, Introduced by Craig MacEwan who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
As submitted.
Duly adopted this 12th day of September, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer,
Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Ruel
MR. STEVES-Thank you, very much. This will be filed tomorrow.
MR. PALING-That workshop that we're talking about, that's the
agenda item, as I see it.
MR. MARTIN-That's fine.
MR. STARK-What workshop are we going to?
MR. WEST-Isn't that one he was going to schedule like in October?
MR. STARK-The ACC workshop. Is that what you're talking about?
MR. WEST-I can't remember if it was ACC or not, but I remember Bob
mentioning that he wanted to schedule a workshop.
MR. PALING-All right. We've discussed this at least once, a
workshop meeting for this Board, in early October, early November,
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and the agenda items that I've got, three, possibly, four on.
Number One, the reason for me wanting to see this happen is Article
78. Mark Schachner will handle that and give us both sides of
Article 78, open for discussion.
MR. BREWER-Do we have an Article 78?
MR. MARTIN-No. He's just saying the topic and what it means?
MR. PALING-No.
education.
It refers to nothing specific.
This is agenda
MR. MARTIN-Remember we had that one meeting, a year or so ago,
about SEQRA, a couple of years ago, about SEQRA, you know, when
Mark came in and gave us a, he's talking about the same type of
thing on that topic. We thought it would be useful for the Board
to be aware of what it is and what the ramifications are and that
type of thing.
MR. PALING-Any problem with that?
MR. MACEWAN-There's nothing to it. It's going to take him about 30
seconds.
MR. PALING-The other thing is I think a discussion with Jim Martin
maybe would be the access situation that we're running into, and
DOT has a special seven minute film on accesses, driveways.
MR. MARTIN-I think you're going to see more about that topic in the
coming years, in the near term, with their work on upper Route 9
from Sweet Road to 149.
MR. PALING-Then the third item I have on here is agenda control, in
regard to, I think this came up, discussion regarding the number of
items on the agenda, and I don't want to get into this tonight, but
we'll discuss agenda control amongst ourselves, and then the only
other possible thing that I could see is sometimes the
Beautification Committee seems to feel that they're left out of our
decisions, that we don't pay enough attention. Maybe we'll ask
Mary Lee Gosline, I think that's her name, to come and just talk to
us a few minutes. Those are the four items I had.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Does this access thing have to do with curb cuts?
MR. PALING-Yes. Curb cuts, driveways, ingress, egress.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, let me tell you something, what they've done
to that Queensbury School up there.
MR. BREWER-Mind boggling, isn't it?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, do you know how many accidents have happened
since they started? Two already, that was before last Friday.
That was before the weekend.
MR. PALING-I knew of one. I didn't know of two.
MRS. LABOMBARD-My husband told me two.
MR. STARK-Jim, what potential 78, McDonough?
MR. MARTIN-I think so. It's been a, over the last two years, it's
probably the risky one so far. You got sued on Great Escape, was
the last time we got sued. Not risky in terms of your decision.
I'm saying in terms of the chance of you getting sued. I think
there's a high risk.
MR. STARK-He's threatened, McDonough.
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MR. BREWER-There's another one coming to, I, just in my own mind.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Over here on, subdivision on Sunnyside, right?
MR. BREWER-No. I'm just thinking down the road, with Story town.
Remember how they said that they were going to segment it?
MR. MARTIN-Yes. Well, we got sued on the segmentation issue last
time.
MR. WEST-What's McDonough's case or argument. What's his grounds
for suing.
MR. MARTIN-I think that it's going to revolve around the noise
issue with that.
MR. PALING-All right. Lets just discuss dates again.
MR. MARTIN-What worked very well in your favor, according to Mark,
was the fact that the Board, apparently, heavily emphasized the
fact that you were making that decision based on your own
observations of the noise at the go kart track up the street, and
you weren't making it on the basis of the study.
MR. PALING-Two tracks.
MR. BREWER-I listened to them when I was on vacation, down in
Disney World. They've got a huge one down there. I mean, I talk
to you just like I'm talking to you now, and then you go up to
them, and it's loud, and then you go over to the other ride over
there, and you can't hear him.
MR. MARTIN-I was up at Old Forge and saw that one, and the same
thing, I mean, you can't hear it from the street.
MR. BREWER-I mean, when you're in them and driving them, yes, but
not.
MR. PALING-In the quiet of the night, if there was absolutely no
other noise on Route 9, yes, you can hear a little, the littlest
buzz, very, very tiny.
MR. MARTIN-What's their closing time, though?
MR. PALING-Twelve o'clock.'
MR. STARK-We were there, twenty after eleven, and there was a lot
of people still on the rides. This was mid week.
MR. BREWER-Where was that?
MR. STARK-Skateland.
MR. PALING-Skateland.
MR. STARK-He had, like, six at once, and then the next ride was
three or four, and then the next ride after that is five or six
more.
MR. PALING-And there's 300 feet of campground. I think we're on
solid ground, with that one, and we didn't pay that much attention
to the study or the interpretation of the study.
MR. WEST-We had two studies, both totally contradicting each other.
MR. PALING-Well, no, one was a study and one was interpretation of
the study.
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MR. BREWER-I don't think it's anything to worry about, really.
MR. PALING-All right. For dates, what nights are no good the first
week of October or November? What nights are you guys saying no
on?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Like the first through the fourth, you mean?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MARTIN-Columbus Day is in there somewhere.
MR. WEST-That's the 14th.
MRS. LABOMBARD-You basically have two full weeks. The 30th is a
Monday and then it goes through the fourth.
MR. PALING-How about a Monday the seventh?
MR. MARTIN-We were thinking of just in this room.
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Is Mark covering Town Board meetings?
MR. BREWER-Yes. The first Monday of the month he would.
MR. PALING-All right. How about Tuesday the 8th?
MR. MART IN- Yes. You'd have to do it Tuesday, Wednesday, or
Thursday, would be my.
MR. BREWER-Tuesday's fine with me.
MR. PALING-Okay. For right now, I'll talk to Mark. How about, if
that's not good, how about Wednesday the ninth?
MR. BREWER-The ninth is fine with me.
MR. MACEWAN-That's better for me. Tuesday the 8th I could probably
be here.
MR. MARTIN-Do you want to say Wednesday the ninth, then, as a first
choice?
MR. PALING-All right. We'll make Wednesday the 9th the first
choice, and Tuesday the 8th the second.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. I'd rather go with a Tuesday, because we have
meetings. What time would it be?
MR. PALING-I assume seven o'clock.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Seven o'clock, okay. Here?
MR. PALING-In this room. I'll talk to Mark and see if he can meet
Wednesday the 9th or Tuesday the 8th. You'll get a notice. Is
there any other topics anyone else wants to discuss?
MR. MARTIN-Bob and I were discussing, this is probably a good idea.
I'd like to see the Board do more of this, just as a general
workshop on things. If there's topics you want to become more
learned of or you want more information on, or something came up
here in review that you didn't know why something went the way it
did.
MR. PALING-I know the other one I'd like to see on here, that you
and I discussed, maybe we can't, is the cellular tower thing. We
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approved the tower.
MR. MARTIN-That varies from one community to the next on that.
MR. BREWER-That's the same thing with.
MR. MARTIN-Electro magnetic field.
MR. BREWER-We went through it. Personally, I learned a lot about
it with Hudson Pointe.
MR. MARTIN-I think we came to the basic conclusion that the best
thing to do was create a buffer as much as you can. We should have
something from the American Planning Federation on Electromagnetic
Fields.
MR. STARK-Should we appoint somebody to infiltrate the Citizens for
Queensbury group and report back or what?
MR. MARTIN-You already have. Tim's already gone.
MR. STARK-You're the agent in charge.
MR. BREWER-I'm not in charge of anything. I just was there as an
innocent bystander. I didn't say a word.
MR. PALING-I sent my wife. She went.
MR. BREWER-I wasn't going to tell anybody you sent her.
MR. WEST-I read the article in the paper.
MR. PALING-They've got a serious effort going here. They're going
to, evidentally, back it up with some money. We'll see soon,
though, Shultz's prediction of the numbers at the meetings, and
this interest may come to be, but if it isn't, they've got some
power there.
MR. BREWER-They said they have no moxy, was the quote.
MR. PALING-Yes, but they've got it in reverse order. We can't
rubber stamp anything. We don't change anything. We're a
municipal board, and we're the ones that made a recommendation to
the Town Board. It wasn't the reverse order.
MR. MARTIN-As a matter of fact, we did make a recommendation to
change it a little bit.
MR. BREWER-Yes, we did. We recommended they have minimum half acre
physical size lots, and the Town said.
MRS. LABOMBARD-They didn't buy that, did they?
MR. BREWER-They didn't even look at it. They never do. I won't
say they didn't look at it. They probably looked at it, but they
just.
MR. MARTIN-They did look at it. I know for a fact that did.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Why didn't they go along with it?
MR. MARTIN-They just didn't see, in light of the impact that was
coming in as design, they didn't see any need to do it.
MRS. LABOMBARD-But when they come back for a site plan review,
can't we go with that again?
MR. MARTIN-If you have a basis, in your review criteria, that you
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think that that could go to less density, then you have the
authority to do that.
MR. PALING-But there is no SEQRA in our, the SEQRA is done.
MR. MARTIN-No, you're not going to do a SEQRA, but if, in your
opinion, you know your review criteria. It's going to be drainage
and layout and foliage and all those types of things, traffic. If
in that review of those things, if you come to a conclusion that
density is correct.
MR. BREWER-I think that our suggestion, I think they said that they
would lose 10, 12, 13 lots, right?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes, right.
MR. BREWER-I don't see that as a big deal.
MR. MACEWAN-We can even ask, as part of our review process, ask for
more pertinent engineering information, pertaining to it, to be
comfortable with it.
MR. MARTIN-Definitely.
MRS. LABOMBARD-See, I still wanted the, because there were so many
four tenths of an acre lot, I wanted to take three of those along
that original phase and divide them into two, six tenths of an acre
lots.
MR. MACEWAN-What people have a tendency to try to sway you into
believing is that, although they've got a change in zoning for a
PUD based on a conceptual plan that they chose to get that re-
zoning, they automatically think that that what's they're going to
get, and that's not reality. Reality says, you don't have to give
them that.
MR. MARTIN-Remember, a PUD is unique in that this is the only time
at which we have a conceptual, or like a Preliminary Site Plan
Review and a Final Site Plan Review, and the first step, you'll
review the whole project preliminarily, and then you'd review the
first phase at Final.
MR. MACEWAN-Just remember that, Cathy. There'll be those in front
of you, swaying you to believe that that's what was approved.
MRS. LABOMBARD-We've got to keep that in mind. I think the density
is just a little bit too ·high. I think it's significantly too
high.
MR. STARK-It's less dense then Bedford Close.
MR. BREWER-Acre for acre?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Acre for acre?
MR. STARK-Phase I in Bedford Close, the houses are on top of each
other.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but acre for acre, is it less dense?
MR. MARTIN-It's certainly less dense than the Pines.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Phase I in Bedford Close was the first part of
Revere, and that.
MR. MACEWAN-Those were all three quarter acre lots over there.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Were they three quarters, or were they one half, the
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first part?
MR. MACEWAN-I think they were three quarter acre lots.
MR. MARTIN-I think George is right, though. As it progressed on,
the later phases, the lots got larger. We can look that up for
you.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The later phases.
MR. BREWER-Yes. That would be a good gage to go on.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The later phases, the lots did get larger, one acre.
MR. STARK-Did we bring up about the 24 inch drain line from the end
of Fox Hollow Road going right into Rush Pond?
MR. MARTIN-Well, there's two 15 inch drainage lines that go right
off of Fox Hollow Road into the, direct discharge, with the
subdivision, the Fox Hollow subdivision.
MR. MACEWAN-For stormwater drainage?
MR. MARTIN-Yes, where on this plan it's (lost words) .
MR. BREWER-Warren County did the same thing with Clendon Brook.
They've got drains going right into Clendon Brook.
MR. MARTIN-All the highways do it. We are trying to learn from the
past. That's why this project isn't doing that. This project, the
conceptual drainage that was approved was for infiltration, and no
direct discharge, no retention ponds.
MR. MACEWAN-What's going on with Queensbury Forest, Joe Ammirati's?
MR. MARTIN-That's still under review. The engineer came back with
a plan to take the drainage and shoot it into the Queen Victoria's
Grant retention pond, because they have a huge one. If you go into
the center, there's three of them, but the largest one in the
center of the subdivision, is huge, and even that, it then has an
overflow into the reservoir. I don't think it's ever even seen a
drop of water.
MR. BREWER-At one time, didn't those people complain about sending
water over there?
MR. MARTIN-Yes.
you're going to
association.
There's no way you're ever going to, because
have to buy an easement from the homeowner's
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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