1996-11-26
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 26, 1996
INDEX
Subdivision No. 8-1996
FINAL STAGE
L. Rae Gillis
Tax Map Nos. 23-1-29.1, 29.21
1.
Site Plan No. 71-96
Glenn Batease
Tax Map No. 135-2-2.2
2.
Site Plan No. 72-96
Glens Falls Independent Living
Center
Tax Map No. 62-1-4.1, 4.2, 5
8 .
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 26, 1996
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
GEORGE STARK
TIMOTHY BREWER
ROGER RUEL
DAVID WEST
CRAIG MACEWAN
MEMBERS ABSENT
CATHERINE LABOMBARD
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
PLANNING BOARD ATTORNEY-MILLER, MANNIX & PRATT, MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
OLD BUSINESS:
SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1996 FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED L. RAE GILLIS
OWNER: L. RAE GILLIS, LITO ABRAMS ZONE: RR-5A LOCATION:
LOCKHART MT. RD. PROPOSALS FOR A TWO LOT SUBDIVISION. CROSS
REFERENCE: UV 82-1990 SUB. 3-1994 TAX MAP NOS. 23-1-29.1, 29.21
LOT SIZE: +/- 21.65 ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
MR. PALING-Is there someone here for the applicant? No? That's
all right. There doesn't really have to be, in this case.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 8-1996, Subdiv. 8-1996 Final
Stage, L. Rae Gillis Meeting Date: November 26, 1996 "The
applicant is seeking final approval of a subdivision on Lockhart
Mountain Road. The applicant received preliminary approval for
this application on November 19, 1996. The applicant plans a two
lot subdivision of an approximately 12.5 acre lot zoned RR-SA.
Staff recommends approval of this subdivision plat which will be
recorded with the Warren County Register of Deeds be modified to
exclude the southern 8 acre lot shown on the existing map. This
lot is not a part of the subdivision and should be removed before
the lot split is made official."
MR. PALING-And they indicated they would do that, at the last
meeting.
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. We've had a public hearing on this. It was
Unlisted, so we must have done the SEQRA, too. So I think we can
go right to a, unless there's a question on this?
MR. WEST-Wasn't there a question on the boat storage up there?
MR. HILTON-Yes, and John just wanted me to let the Board know that
he is still looking into that, and he will have an answer for you
at some point, certainly by next meeting.
MR. PALING-Okay. Fine.
MR. RUEL-Before you go on, I would just like to congratulate Mr.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
Hilton on the very elegant Staff Notes.
MR. HILTON-I actually have to say congratulations to Pam Whiting.
She did a nice job.
MR. PALING-Lets hope it will stay that way.
MR. RUEL-It's nice.
MR. PALING-Okay. Do I hear a motion on this?
MOTION TO APPROVE FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 8-1996 L. RAE
GILLIS, Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Roger Ruel:
with the stipulation that when the plat is submitted for signature
by Bob that the southern most lot is excluded from the plot plan.
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. West¡ Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel,
Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. PALING-Okay.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 71-96 TYPE II GLENN BATEASE OWNER: SAME ZONE:
LI -lA LOCATION: 71 BIG BOOM ROAD PROPOSAL IS TO ADD COURIER
SERVICE. NO ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS, COURIER SERVICE WILL OCCUPY A
PORTION OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. ALL LAND USES IN LI ZONES ARE
SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. WARREN CO.
PLANNING BOARD. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 11/13/96 TAX MAP NO. 135-2-
2.2 LOT SIZE: 7.16 ACRES SECTION: 179-26
GLENN BATEASE, PRESENT
MR. PALING-The Warren County Planning, they said No County Impact
I think?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 71-96, Glenn Batease, Meeting Date:
November 26, 1996 "The applicant is proposing to use an existing
building as a courier service business on property zoned LI-IA.
All land uses in the LI-1A district require site plan approval by
the Planning Board. No new buildings will be constructed and there
is adequate parking to serve this new business. This site plan
conforms to the density and permeability requirements for the LI-1A
zone."
MR. HILTON-And Staff recommends approval of Site Plan No. 71-96.
MR. PALING-Okay. Is there someone here from the applicant? Would
you come up and identify yourself, please.
MR. BATEASE-I'm Glenn Batease.
MR. STARK-Glenn, I was out there today and I noticed that some of
the vans are already parked there. I forget, when you came in
originally with Seeley, how many bathrooms have you got in the
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place or toilets?
MR. BATEASE-There's one toilet.
MR. STARK-That's it?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. STARK-Okay. How many more people will be using it because of
the courier service? Nobody?
MR. BATEASE-Well, in mY end, I don't have a bathroom. So, the
courier service has one. I've got the plumbing, but I've got to
run it over.
MR. STARK-Now, this is Led Foot out there now?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. STARK-Okay. How many vans are they going to keep out there?
MR. BATEASE-Ten.
MR. STARK-They're going to be outside?
MR. BATEASE-The vans?
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. BREWER-So there'll be ten vans in there all day long, or
they'll leave in the morning and then come back at night?
MR. BATEASE-Well, see, a lot of their business is, they deliver a
lot of the Post Star, you know, the main drop offs. So a lot of
them go at night and then a few of them, they've got two runs that
go to Plattsburg every day and then the other ones, they do a lot
of the bank stuff, you know, letters and stuff.
MR. BREWER-So basically they're going to leave in the morning, come
back at night?
MR. BATEASE-Yes. It's not like in and out. They just go.
MR. STARK-What do they keep inside, just the packages and stuff?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Is this the former Led Foot courier?
MR. BATEASE-Yes, Led Foot U.S. Deliveries.
MR. RUEL-Yes, well they had about at least a dozen trucks.
MR. BATEASE- Yes, they have ten. See they moved the main
headquarters down below by Albany somewhere. This was a corporate
office up here in their old place and they didn't need so many
offices. So they moved the headquarters down below and they just
continue the drop point.
MR. WEST-So they're shutting down the Luzerne Road operation?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. RUEL-I noticed one day they were all gone.
MR. BREWER- I've got one more question. When we originally approved
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
this, was there one entrance to this between the two buildings, now
there's another driveway over here, is that so, or did we approve
one or two? Does anybody remember?
MR. BATEASE-Well, the one driveway in between the two buildings,
that's Seeley and myself share that one. That's the right-of-way
between the two buildings, and then they have their own, well you
see on the map, they've got their own in and out.
MR. BREWER-So does that need a, that probably doesn't need a
permit, does it, George?
MR. BATEASE-I think you're allowed two in's and out's.
MR. HILTON-The drives that are there right now, they're all pre-
existing.
MR. BREWER-We approved one originally, didn't we?
MR. STARK-Tim, I can't tell you. I don't remember.
MR. BREWER-He's adding another one.
MR. HILTON-If you're adding another curb cut, I'm trying to think
if this is a County Road or not. You'd certainly need to apply for
a curb cut permit from either the County or from our Highway
Department, and if the Board wanted to through that in as a
condition.
MR. BREWER-No, I just remembered that, originally, there was a curb
cut down by the other road coming in, and we asked them to move it
and they did, and I just couldn't remember if that other driveway
was there or not.
MR. PALING-I mean, moved it up to the one in the middle between the
buildings is now?
MR. BREWER-Remember how they had it down here before?
MR. PALING-I don't, no.
MR. HILTON-No.
MR. BATEASE-Well, John from the Town told me, see, there were three
at one time. There was one between the two buildings, and then I
had one right where that one is now, and then there was another one
right across from UPS that came down in side ways, and he said I
couldn't have three. So he wanted me to block that one off. So I
blocked that one off and he said it was all right.
MR. PALING-That's the one to the north you blocked off?
MR. BATEASE-Yes, right across from the UPS.
MR. PALING-The one between the building stays there and the one
below, which would be Seeley's below the welding shop stays, too.
Right?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. STARK-You're keeping the north one and the center one?
MR. PALING-This is the middle one, and this is the one that would
service here, right?
MR. BATEASE-Yes, that's for Seeley's welding shop.
MR. PALING-And then this was cut off.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. PALING-All right. Can we consider the two he's talking about
existing. That's what I was doing, right or wrong.
MR. HILTON-It's my understanding in a situation like that, the two
are pre-existing and they're operational, if John observed there
were three and told them to close one of them down, it seems to me
that the plan shows only two. As long as he conforms with this
plan and conforms with what John told him, I think everything, you
know, site plan is okay.
MR. STARK-There's enough frontage there.
MR. BREWER-I don't have a problem with that. I just couldn't
remember whether we had, I knew that the one on the south end they
had to close. It just looked like it was a new driveway, that's
all.
MR. PALING-Well, one on the north end I think, Tim, you mean had to
be closed. The one on the south end goes into Seeley's, and the
one in the middle would service where Led Foot is going. Then on
the north side is the one that's closed off.
MR. BREWER-This one up here is closed?
MR. PALING-Where it says, under "Boom".
MR. BREWER-Right.
MR. PALING-Yes, that's closed off.
MR. BREWER-Okay. So the other two would be existing, and it looks
all right. It looks like we'd approve it that way anyway, if not
already.
MR. MACEWAN-I have a question for Staff. On the issue of the
bathrooms. He only has one. Does he need more? Has he got enough
to accommodate or what?
MR. HILTON-The applicant's going to be required to apply for a
building permit for this, at which time Dave Hatin, our Building
and Codes Director, will look over the plan. If he feels that
there's need for increased septic or another bathroom, he will
require that at that time.
MR. PALING-And that won't require any review by us?
MR. HILTON-No, not at all.
1
MR. PALING-It'll just be done through the Building?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. We'll open the public hearing on this
matter, if anyone cares to speak.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-This is a Type II. So we don't need to do anything. We
can go right to a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 71-96 GLENN BATEASE, Introduced by
Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
To add courier service and occupy a portion of the existing
building, with the condition that a new driveway be added on the
north side of the equipment workshop building, and continued use of
the shared driveway on the southern side of the building between
the applicant and Seeley.
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
MR. MACEWAN-Did you want to put it in the motion that the northerly
driveway not be used?
MR. RUEL-I don't think you need. I think that was done already.
MR. BREWER-That's the one that's opening up?
MR. PALING-The one right under "Boom".
MR. BREWER-No, not that one.
opened up.
The one north is the one he just
MR. PALING-Isn't that what you and I just agreed to?
closing this off up here?
You're
MR. BATEASE-No, no. See, there was one that came down here across
from UPS. John asked me if I could close that one down.
MR. MACEWAN-So there's four driveways.
MR. BATEASE-Well, this is my property here, and this is Seeley's
property.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't care who's property it is.
driveways in there, right?
There are four
MR. BREWER-When we approved this, we approved it as a site plan,
and then they subdivided it. So we approved two driveways on that
parcel, and when they split it, he had one and Seeley had one, as
I remember it. Originally we had a problem with the driveway down
where Big Boom splits off and Channel Road, there was one down
there, remember? We had him move it up?
MR. PALING-But that's the Seeley entrance now.
MR. BREWER-Right. Now that's the Seeley. The other one was (lost
word) .
MR. MACEWAN-That's the delivery entrance.
MR. BATEASE-Right, for Seeleys.
MR. STARK-And now you've got the center and the courier service
entrance.
MR. BREWER-Now there's another one, yes.
MR. BATEASE-And John asked me to close this one down here. He said
you can have this one and this one, but you can't have a third one.
That's the one that came across from UPS.
MR. MACEWAN-But this site plan was only approved for two driveways.
There are three shown on here.
MR. BATEASE-Right.
MR. BREWER-That was what my question was.
MR. RUEL-Which one should be closed?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. STARK-The one furthest north, Rog.
MR. PALING-There were two drives up there, Roger. They're going to
close this one up here. We've got a drive here, and we've got a
drive here, and we've got one here. That's what Tim's point is.
MR. HILTON-If I could have just one second. If there's a previous
site plan on this property, and there have been conditions attached
to that, that the site will operate on a limited number of
driveways, I think the Planning Board can easily make a motion that
says that no more new driveways be created that conflict with the
previously approved site plan. I'm just saying, just to clear up
the confusion.
MR. BREWER-I don't have a problem with closing one and opening
another one.
MR. RUEL-With the condition that no new driveways be opened?
MR. HILTON-Sure. Than what's previously approved, what was
previously approved with the previous site plan on this property?
MR. RUEL-That's it.
MR. PALING-I'm not that comfortable. What I wish we knew was what
we approved.
MR. MACEWAN-All you have to do is make a motion to approve the site
plan under the condition that no additional driveways be used that
were otherwise approved in the original site plan. How's that?
MR. BREWER-How about we say the number? In other words, if he's
relocating a driveway, that's not a big deal, is it?
MR. STARK-No. The thing is, though, that he wants two entrances
for his building, one on the north side and one on the south side.
One for him. One for the courier service. So what's the matter
with approving it, and then if John thinks he needs another curb
cut, he can get it from the County.
MR. BREWER-Glenn, doesn't the driveway in the center between the
two buildings service you and Seeley?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. BREWER-And then you just want to add one up further for Led
Foot, right?
MR. BATEASE-On the north end of the building.
MR. BREWER-That's all you need then?
MR. BATEASE-Yes.
MR. BREWER-So you just need the one? So what's the problem with
that?
MR. STARK-There's no problem with that, as far as I'm concerned.
MR. MACEWAN-You're adding another driveway, that's fine.
MR. BREWER-If he uses Seeley's driveway, the combined one, right in
the middle of the two lots, and Led Foot uses the one to the north.
MR. MACEWAN-So you're going to add another driveway? There's only
two approved for that site. He's adding a northern driveway.
MR. PALING-All right.
Could we approve this with the three
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
driveways indicated on here now and talking about the elimination
of the fourth?
MR. PALING-You could approve it whichever.
approve an additional driveway, sure.
If you wanted to
MR. BREWER-Bob, this site plan originally was one piece. Now it's
subdivided. So we're just talking about Batease's property. So he
should only have two drives on his property. Correct?
MR. PALING-Right. Okay.
MR. BREWER-Never mind the third one. Because that's on Seeley's
property up here for him.
MR. PALING-You could limit this to a driveway on either end of the
building.
MR. STARK-He could say the driveway on the south side is Seeley's,
and he could use it, and then he's got one on the north side.
MR. PALING-Well, the driveways are limited to the shared driveway
between the two properties Seeley and Batease, and that there's
another driveway permitted on the north side, and that's it.
MR. BREWER-Would be specifically for Led Foot.
MR. PALING-For Led Foot, yes. You could say that. Does that seem
reasonable? Do you want to change your motion to that?
MR. RUEL-With the condition that a new driveway be added on the
north side of the equipment workshop building and continued use of
the shared driveway on the southern side of the building between
the applicant and Seeley. Is that correct?
MR. PALING-Yes.
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark,
Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. RUEL-I just had a comment, to Staff, this sort of an
application seems to be overkill. That perhaps Staff should look
into the possibility of this type being perhaps eliminated and
handled some other way. I mean, it's quite an exercise. It had to
go through the Warren County Planning Board. It's got to go
through this Planning Board, and all for doing something inside of
a building.
MR. HILTON-Right. Unfortunately all land uses within the Light
Industrial zone have to go before site plan, and I understand what
you're saying, and we do have some interest in that, but I think
we're hard at work getting a master plan written, and then after
that follows the zoning changes.
MR. RUEL- Yes. I think that's one of the things that's being
discussed now, yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. We're all set, then.
SITE PLAN NO. 72-96 TYPE: UNLISTED GLENS FALLS INDEPENDENT
LIVING CENTER OWNER: SAME ZONE: HC-1A PROPOSAL IS FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW 9,675 SF OFFICE BUILDING AND RENOVATION OF A
1,123 SF RESIDENCE TO OFFICE SPACE FOR THE GLENS FALLS INDEPENDENT
LIVING CENTER. ALL LAND USES IN HC ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD.
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 11/11/96
TAX MAP NO. 62-1-4.1, 4.2, 5 LOT
23
JIM MILLER & TOM NACE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
CROSS REFERENCE: AV 107-1996
WARREN CO. PLANNING: 11/13/96
SIZE: 3.44 ACRES SECTION: 179-
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 72-96, Glens Falls Independent
Living Center, Meeting Date: November 26, 1996 liThe applicant is
seeking approval to construct a new 9,675 sq. ft. office building
and renovation of a 1,123 sq. ft. residence into office space.
Both buildings will be used to operate the Glens Falls Independent
Living Center. The project site is 3.44 acres and is zoned Highway
Commercial HC-1A. The building that is to be constructed meets all
required setbacks. Lot permeability and density also conform to
the requirements of the HC-1A district. The new building will
connect to existing sewer and water lines. A parking schedule for
this type of use does not exist in the Zoning Ordinance.
Therefore, the Planning Board must determine whether or not the
parking shown is adequate to serve the site. One-way signs should
be posted at the westerly entrance in order to prevent traffic
exiting the site from that western access point. Approval from the
Warren County DPW will be needed for curb cuts on a County Road.
Proof of this approval can be submitted prior to the issuance of a
building permit for this site. All Rist Frost comments should be
addressed prior to Planning Board action on this Site Plan. Any
comments from the appropriate wastewater and water departments must
be addressed prior to Planning Board action."
MR. HILTON-IIAt a meeting of the Warren County Planning Board, held
on the 13th day of November 1996, the above application for a Site
Plan Review for a new office facility for the above mentioned
operation. was reviewed, and the following action was taken.
Recommendation to: Approve II Signed by Linda Bassarab, Vice
Chairperson. At a meeting of the Queensbury Beautification
Committee on the 11th of November, the site plan was reviewed and
was approved as submitted with a resolution signed by Mrs. Mary Lee
Gosline. Now, as far as the Rist-Frost comments go, you should
have both sheets of correspondence, one that I just handed out
prior to the meeting. First of all I'll start with the letter
dated November 14th that was in your packets, I believe. There's
some concern, in the first question, as to this project being in
the floodplain, and although it is in the floodplain, it's at an
elevation above the floodplain elevation where the applicant can
construct the building, but prior to construction, prior to
issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy, must go through a procedure
with Dave Hatin, our Building and Codes Director, where they just
essentially have to fill out paper work and Dave has to inspect it
and make sure that it's at the elevation that they say it will be.
I've ¡confirmed that with Dave, and I think that that should
complètely address any of the floodplain issues with this site.
Other than the fact that Dave will be looking to make sure that the
slopes are stabilized and, you know, that just everything is in
order with this building, once the finished floor is poured.
Warren County permits for the right-of-way, I believe that the
applicant has some documentation of that. Water and sewer
connections we can discuss with them. The parking, as I said, will
be determined by the Board, and the stormwater management plan, in
the follow up letter which you have, dated November 26th, Rist-
Frost seems to be okay with the stormwater management plan, and
they have alluded to what I just spoke of concerning the floodplain
issue. Other than that, the comments as they've stated have been
satisfactorily addressed.
MR. PALING-Okay. That takes care of everything?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. HILTON-Yes. That's pretty much everything.
MR. PALING-Okay, and you're contented with the reply to Rist-
Frost's letter.
MR. RUEL-With the exception that a permit should be required.
MR. PALING-It would have to go through Dave Hatin, yes.
MR. HILTON-Right, with the flood plain, and that's, you know, you
can take action on the plan this evening, and really Dave won't
sign off on it until construction begins anyway.
MR. PALING-You're not changing elevation of anything. They're just
making sure that it is what the map says it is, the elevation is?
MR. HILTON-Right, exactly, and they're going out and physically
inspecting it, and making sure it's at that elevation.
MR. NACE-We have to provide a certificate. For the record, Tom
Nace, Nace Engineering, represent ing the Independent Living Center,
and Jim Miller, Miller Associates. The surveyor has to provide a
certificate to Dave Hatin, that he has surveyed the floor elevation
and that it's above the flood level, okay, but that's at building
permit time, or actually after building permit, before a CO is
issued.
MR. RUEL-So you will get that permit, no problem?
MR. NACE-Yes.
floodplain.
It's standard procedure for anything in the
MR. RUEL-That answers all the Rist-Frost comments then.
MR. HILTON-As far as I'm concerned, unless the Board has any
questions.
MR. PALING-Okay.
been addressed.
Parking is sufficient. All other comments have
Do you have anything you want to add to this?
MR. NACE-No. We do have the permit from the County, and I will
provide copies of that for the Planning Department.
MR. MACEWAN-Just out of curiosity, what is the water table like
over there? Would that effect it at all?
MR. MILLER-Well, not really because we're going to be filling quite
a bit of the site. Right now the existing grade drops off from the
road. So in the area where the parking lot and much of the
building is going to be is going to be substantially filled. So
the footings won't be very deep in the existing soil.
MR. RUEL-Are you putting fill on the rear of the building also or
just the front?
MR. MILLER-Very little. What happens is the grade, we're filling
primarily in the front of the building. The grade will drop toward
the back of the building so more of the building will be exposed on
the rear side to minimize the amount of fill required on the back
portion of the site.
MR. MACEWAN-On that back side, what's the water table like there?
I mean, you've got to dig footers there. I'm assuming it's going
to be a poured foundation. Isn't it?
MR. MILLER-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Well, would that be in the water table? I mean, I just
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
know up the road over in Quaker Village you have to go down two
feet before you hit water (lost words) there?
MR. MILLER-They may hit some when they dig the footing and they
just have to de-water the foundations, but they're not going to be
very deep because at the bottom we're filling about three feet
right against the wall there.
MR. NACE-I think it's a little different. This site slopes down to
the creek. It's several feet, maybe three or four feet when you
get up toward the back of the building existing grade above the
(lost words) .
MR. STARK-This is higher than Quaker Village?
MR. NACE-Yes. Quaker Village, that's about the same elevation at
the stream bank. Here there's a couple of feet of grade distance
between our site.
MR. RUEL-The elevation of the footings would be about 315, you'd
say, roughly, and what's the elevation of Halfway Brook?
MR. NACE-The elevation of Halfway Brook in here is I think about
310 or 311.
MR. RUEL-So you'll be within about seven feet of that.
MR. MILLER-We're filling, the grade along the back of the building
there is at 313, I think.
MR. RUEL-You can't go any closer than 50 feet to the Brook, right?
MR. MILLER-And Halfway Brook is down around 308.
MR. RUEL-So you've got about seven or eight feet right?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-In reference to the parking, the parking requirement,
what are these buildings specifically going to be used for?
MR. MILLER-The building is primarily used for office space. The
Independent Living Center will share the building with several
other similar agencies, and a large percentage of the building is
going to be lobby space, kitchen/lunch area. There's conference
rooms, some computer training areas and things which are shared,
and they're not manned. That's why in Rist-Frost's comments,
there's not employees there all the time. In Rist-Frost's comments
they commented that the gross square footage that we were using for
our parking projections was low, and that's why, because it's not
an office situation. The other thing is that the number that we
used, number of spaces projected, was what was required by the
owners, and a lot of the use of this building is by handicapped,
and that's why we had that large drop off area across the front of
the building. So a lot of the people who are coming to this
facility will be dropped off in vans, and they won't require
vehicles. The other thing is, part of the reason we laid the site
out the way we did is that give us some expansion to the east, if
they ever did need some additional parking they could expand the
parking lot in the future.
MR. RUEL-Which way is north on that?
MR. MILLER-Straight up.
MR. RUEL-Straight up.
MR. MACEWAN-How many more spaces could you put in there on the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
east?
MR. MILLER-We have 25 in that lot, so we could probably get another
20.
MR. STARK-What did Wiswall, Dr. Wiswall, Dr. Hoffman say, any
comments from them? I know when you were out there George probably
had to come across the street and talk to you.
MR. MILLER-Well, Dr. Wiswall actually donated the property to the
Glens Falls Independent Living Center.
MR. RUEL-Do you have a rendering of an elevation?
MR. MILLER-Of the building? This is the front elevation, the main
entrance, and these are the other two wings where there'll be
secondary entrances. You can see here the amount of common (lost
words) .
MR. RUEL-The reason I asked about the roof line is that most of the
roofs are being drained separately, by a pipe, into wells except
the rear roof, which just, what, goes into the soil?
MR. MILLER-Well, we were providing an infiltration trench down
along the back, a gravel trench with a timber edge.
MR. RUEL-So it's a slant roof?
MR. MILLER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-That's what I was concerned about. I didn't know whether
it was flat or slanted.
MR. MILLER-No. It's going to be a metal roof.
MR. RUEL-Okay. Those 400 watt lights on poles, you will be sure
that they'll be oriented so as not to shine into the passing
vehicles on Glenwood Avenue?
MR. MILLER-Yes. What we've done is, they're cut off like located
two of them at the entrance, and the type of diffuser we're using
directs the light inward. So we're primarily looking at a light at
the intersection areas and light the entry, and then we have one
additional one in the parking lot.
MR. RUEL-I wanted to be sure that none of the light was going out
into the road, because that happens.
MR. MILLER-No. They're cut off lights and they're directed into
the parking lot.
MR. RUEL-Also the smaller light, was it 100 watts along the
sidewalk?
MR. MILLER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-I notice here you don't have any in the front of the
building.
MR. MILLER-Well, there's a canopy and building lighting at that
entry, into the entry. So there'll be some architectural lighting
in those areas, but what we did is provided pole lights in the
areas where we don't have the building light.
MR. RUEL-The building light, then, will compensate for that.
MR. MILLER-Yes.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. RUEL-AII right. What do you anticipate the hours of operation,
as far as the lights are concerned?
DAVE WELCH
MR. WELCH-My name's Dave Welch. I'm the Chairman of the Board of
the Independent Living Center or President of the Board. The
normal hours of operation of the building is going to be basically
about nine to five. However, because of the multi agency, not for
profit use of this, we expect that there will be Board meetings and
so on going on in the evening hours. Rarely would they go beyond
nine or nine thirty at night, but like some of your meetings, God
knows they could go on until three in the morning if there's an
issue, but the normal routine is that the hours would be roughly
from eight a.m. until about nine p.m.
MR. RUEL-Okay. Thanks.
MR. WELCH-I would also say for the record, as read, it said that
the Independent Living Center was the occupant. Right now, there
will be four different agencies occupying this building. The
Independent Living Center is the prime mover or the force behind
this, and will, at least in the beginning, be the owner/operator of
the building.
MR. RUEL-Okay. Thanks. I had a question, it has to do with
Drawing Number Three, landscaping. You show a transformer. Is
this a transformer or a substation?
MR. MILLER-No.
MR. RUEL-It's just a transformer?
MR. MILLER-It's just a standard transformer.
MR. RUEL-It's just a transformer. It's next to the dumpster. Is
there any way that you could change the trees to taller white pines
around that area, to kind of screen it, because the ones you call
for are only, what, three, four feet high?
MR. MILLER-Well, we could increase the size of those, sure.
MR. RUEL-You should put a little taller trees around that area I
think.
MR. MILLER-That's the planted size, right, but we could increase
the size of that, sure.
MR. MACEWAN-(Lost words) size of those, Jim?
MR. MILLER-Well, White Pines would be huge. Typically in a
situation like that you'd shear them and trim them back so they'd
continue to screen.
MR. NACE-If they're planted at four feet, White Pine will generally
grow about 12 inches a year.
MR. ,.. RUEL-y.es, well, what's "SB"?
MR. MILLER-Service barrier, Shadblow?
MR. RUEL-It's some kind of a tree?
MR. MILLER-Yes, it's a shrub form, a large shrub.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I thought it would be best if you had some trees
there rather than shrubs.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. MILLER-Well, it will be a tree, actually, a small tree.
MR. RUEL-Yes. If you could get a little larger ones, I'd be very
happy.
MR. MILLER-One of the reasons that that transformer is located
there, that's actually about five feet below, four to five feet
below the main driveway. So as you look at it when you're driving
in, it'll be down and pretty much screened from sight until you get
right at the top of the driveway. That really isn't out in full
view. The doorway, you can see that it comes out and we have to
have stairs down to it that comes out from the side to access it.
MR. RUEL-Okay. On Sheet Number Two, you show an overflow there, I
was just wondering, how often do you expect this overflow to be
used?
MR. NACE-During a 50 year storm it's used. I haven't run a 25 year
storm, but I presume there would be a little bit out of the 25 year
storm, very little.
MR. RUEL-That's it?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Okay, and there's a swale way over on the right?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. RUEL-That connects to a culvert or something in the road?
MR. NACE-There's an existing culvert.
MR. RUEL-My question is, does road drainage go into the Halfway
Brook?
MR. NACE-It does now.
MR. RUEL-It does now?
MR. NACE-Yes. There are three road culverts there now, all of
which we're picking up, and they presently drain into a series of
ditches that outlay into the Brook and we're picking them all up in
a pipe across the front of our site, and then outletting it in a
channel, a rip rap channel that'll lead down and diffuse out toward
the Brook.
MR. RUEL-The reason I ask is that on some other projects, recently,
that's been eliminated, where the road drainage was going directly
into Clendon Brook, and now doesn't go into the Brook anYmore. It
goes into special wells or something that was constructed. I was
wondering, is this a standard part of the Ordinance or is it just
for a particular site?
MR. HILTON-No. Wherever we can, we're certainly concerned with
protecting the quality of the brooks and streams and waterbodies
within the Town. In a situation like this, though, Rist-Frost and
Planning Staff has reviewed this and believe that there will be no
more excess runoff into the Brook after development with this site.
MR. NACE-These are existing road culverts that are there now, and
they're from County roads.
MR. RUEL-I understand. What you're doing will definitely not
increase that, but I was concerned about the fact that road
drainage, salt, etc., you know, going into Halfway Brook. Everyone
seems to be so concerned about Halfway Brook and now we're taking
road drainage and putting it right in there.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. NACE- Yes, well, Quaker Road all goes into Halfway Brook, in one
form or another. There's very little we could do on this site to
mitigate that because of the soils. If we had soils like you have
around Clendon Brook where it's all sand, then we could have put
drywells in where we have manholes there, the structures, but on
this site it really wouldn't do any good.
MR. MILLER-That drainage, most of the flow that comes across there
is actually not from the road but it's from the properties on the
north side. Those culverts were put there to allow that, from like
Dr. Wiswall's property on the other side. They come across and
then they ditched it down.
MR. RUEL-Now, I'm satisfied that nothing that you're doing will
change that condition, will not increase it, won' t decrease it
either. I had one last comment, and that is, you've shown sewer
connections and water connections to the existing sewer and water
lines. You haven't shown any connections for Helm House.
Shouldn't that be on there?
MR. NACE-They're existing. It's already existing.
MR. RUEL-I know, but should it be shown on the plan?
MR. NACE-The existing ones?
MR. RUEL-Yes, I mean, it's part of the plan.
MR. NACE-Well, we're not sure exactly where they are, short of
going out and digging them up, okay, and if we show them on a plan,
the contractor goes digging, assuming it's where we showed it, and
it's not there, or if he hits it somewhere where we haven't shown
it.
MR. RUEL-You put an arrow and you say, somewhere in this area.
MR. PALING-What kind of material do you have in the curbings?
MR. MILLER-Concrete.
MR. PALING-Okay. Where you've got a curbing, it's concrete.
MR. WEST-The geotextile silt barrier that you're going to install,
what is the intent of that? Is that a water tight barrier?
MR. NACE-No.
MR. MILLER-No, what it does, it's a, as the detail shows, it's a
fence, and because we're filling all along the site here, the
natural drainage course is toward the Brook, that fence will be
installed all along that dotted line, and what's done is before the
site is disturbed it's actually trenched in, and it's like a fine
net and it allows water to come down and go through it, but it will
stop silt from washing down. If you get a heavy rain and you get
some wash before the slopes are established, that fence will
prevent from washing past that drain down into the Brook.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR.. RUEL-What's the exterior of the building on this?
MR. MILLER-We have the architect here.
PAUL CUSHING
MR. CUSHING-Yes. Paul Cushing, I'm the architect for the project.
The exterior of the building will be a combination of brick and
insulated exterior finishing system. Primarily brick around the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
entrances and on the outboard wings, and the exterior finishing
system will be in-filling in between those areas. The roofing will
be a covered aluminum roofing, the foundation plantings and the
rest of the plantings talked about, as well as the grading, but
it's going to be an office building, a lot of interior open spaces,
which represents the activities of the various groups that are
going to be operating within the building.
MR. RUEL-Now would you say that, architecturally, it has a colonial
motif or flavor?
MR. CUSHING-Architecturally I think that it has a basis in colonial
architecture, but it is a more concurrent style, hopefully, that
blends in well with what is consistent with this overall area.
MR. RUEL-Nondescript?
MR. CUSHING-Well, no, I don' t think it's nondescript. You have the
pitched roof which is pretty standard colonial, part of the design
repertoire. Brick is certainly very definitely that part. As you
know, the exterior insulated finishing systems are very reminiscent
of stucco and it gives you a chance to do a little coining, for
instance. Gives you a little chance for color banding and things
of that nature, which we are considering adding to the total
composition.
MR. RUEL-So this is a slab construction, right?
MR. CUSHING-This is a slab construction.
MR. RUEL-So the heating system, etc. , is all on the same level?
MR. CUSHING-The heating system probably is going to be water based
heat pump type of situation, where we can, you know, pump heated
water and cool it down.
MR. RUEL-Geothermal?
MR. CUSHING-No, it's not a geothermal. It's a standard system that
we've used in office building structures for a number of years and
it's a very, very effective system.
MR. RUEL-So it has airconditioning, too?
MR. CUSHING-Definitely, and it will be fully sprinkled.
MR. RUEL-Do the windows have many lights, grids, and have shutters
and things like that?
MR. CUSHING-At this point, I would like to beg the question about
those things, maybe yes and maybe not. Shutters are purely a
decora t i ve thing, as you know. They are not funct ional . Tha t ' s an
unfortunate aspect, and I, personally, have a little bit of a
hesitation to use things like that.
MR. RUEL- It gives me an idea of what the building looks like.
That's why I always like to see a rendering.
MR. CUSHING-I do have an isometric sketch of the exterior. I don't
like the color at this point because I don't want to commit myself
to colors. I'd be happy to show that to you, though.
MR. RUEL-All right. I think I have enough information. Thank you.
MR. PALING-Okay. Anymore here? Okay. Lets open up the public
hearing on this matter. Is there anyone here that cares to speak
about this matter for or against?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-This is an Unlisted. So we need a SEQRA on this. The
Short Form, I assume, is okay.
MR. HILTON-That's what they've attached.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 72-96, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Planning Board
GLENS FALLS INDEPENDENT LIVING CENTER, and
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
S. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark,
Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. PALING-Okay. We can go right to a motion, then.
MR. RUEL-The one thing I think that we forgot. Someone asked to
have notes on the plan that the water connection, etc., will be in
accordance with Queensbury. You'll do that?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. NACE-That was on the engineering letter. That has been done on
the plans that were sent back to Rist-Frost for final review.
MR. RUEL-It has been done?
MR. NACE-It has been done.
MR. RUEL-Okay. Fine.
MR. PALING-Okay. Any other comments? Okay.
a motion?
Do you want to make
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 72-96 GLENS FALLS INDEPENDENT
LIVING CENTER, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption,
seconded by George Stark:
For construction of a new 9,675 sf office building and renovation
of aI, 123 sf residence to office space for the Glens Falls
Independent Living Center.
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you.
MR. HILTON-Before everybody gets to their election, if that's what
you're doing this evening, I thought I would just poll the Board
real quick. Right now for December's meetings we have the 17th set
aside, and I don't think anybody would make the 24th. So we were
kind of thinking of having, if needed, a second meeting on the
19th.
MR. RUEL-The 17th and 19th?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. STARK-Will we need the 19th?
MR. HILTON-We don't know yet, but if need be.
MR. PALING-George, this was what was agreed to before.
already done this.
We've
MR. HILTON-You've been polled?
MR. PALING-Yes. What we agreed to before was that if necessary the
special meeting for Indian Ridge would be the 12th.
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-And that the other meetings would be the 17th and 19th.
MR. HILTON-Okay.
MR. SCHACHNER-I am continually confused about this. I thought when
we talked about this last week, or whenever we talked about this,
Indian Ridge was not going to be on the 12th. I remember John
Goralski and I were sitting here. I said if Indian Ridge happens
on the 12th, you're going to be without counsel, and I thought the
Board said, that's right. Lets not do that. Lets not do that on
the 12th. I don't care. I just want to make sure.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. PALING-No, you're absolutely correct.
MR. SCHACHNER-I just want to make sure that I've stated that again,
and I know we've had that chat. I also, the 19th is fine for me,
as it happens, but I don' t believe you discussed this at any
previous meeting.
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-No, we did discuss it, but you're right on the first
part, Mark. You're absolutely right.
MR. STARK-George, we were kind of thin this month, as far as, you
know, last week's meeting and this meeting could have been
consolidated really, you know, but if need be, we could do like
December 17th for the regular meeting, December 19th if Indian
Ridge is on. If it isn't, no 19th then, just make it the 17th.
MR. HILTON-Unless we, I mean, if we do receive a lot of
applications and we have to have two meetings, the 17th and the
19th.
MR. PALING-We can't do the 12th. I think for Indian Ridge we do
want legal representation. Mark, what are the dates you can do it,
that we can have this room?
MR. HILTON-The 17th and the 19th are the only dates that this room,
that it will be free.
MR. MACEWAN-Instead of putting yourself in a pickle discussing a
probability that may not even happen, if they come in and we don't
have enough dates to accommodate them, and we want to do Indian
Ridge in a Special Meeting, put them off until January.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Sure.
MR. MACEWAN-What's wrong with that? They aren't going to go break
ground next month.
MR. HILTON-Right. I mean, you could certainly do that, and I'm not
even sure if they're going to be in for December. Right now we're
just thinking about.
MR. PALING-Tomorrow is the final day for submittal.
MR. STARK-They haven't indicated anything to you?
MR. HILTON-I have nothing indicating.
MR. BREWER-Cross that bridge when you get to it.
MR. WEST-So leave it 17 and 19 if necessary.
MR. PALING-Mark, you're available the 17th and the 19th, right?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, the 17th is a regular scheduled meeting, and I'm
available the 19th, also, and I'm generally available. The 12th
just happens to be a night that I'm not available.
MR. PALING-Okay. George, tell Pam what we've done here, because we
had worked on this, and Mark did point out what he just said,
right.
MR. HILTON-So right now we've got the 17th and 19th.
MR. PALING-And then we don't have to do anything until we see what
happens tomorrow. If we've got a problem, we'll have to get in
touch with everybody.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
MR. STARK-Site visits the 14th?
MR. PALING-Site visits are the 14th at nine o'clock in the morning.
Right. That's still the same.
MR. HILTON-And if we can get by with having just one meeting, that
one meeting will be the 17th.
MR. PALING-The 17th, yes.
MR. RUEL-As long as you don't have too many.
MR. WEST-Well, if it was like tonight, that would be good.
MR. RUEL-Yes, but what's the most you can have, about eight?
MR. STARK-Eight.
MR. PALING-Well, there is no number. They sort of try for eight,
but there is no, we've been through that before. There is no
number.
MR. RUEL-It depends on the applications.
MR. WEST-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Back in the old days, there were some midnight, one
o'clock in the morning jobs.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. PALING-We don't go that long very often.
MR. RUEL-Ten after one I remember.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Yes. I slept through most of it.
MR. MACEWAN-That's on the record.
MR. BREWER-Yes, I can remember some pretty late meetings.
MR. MACEWAN-Once we get past 11 we get over time. So don't worry
about it.
MR. RUEL-Now, you know, I have a question about these elections.
When we first started, years back, the election used to be on the
basis of a ballot. It was kind of a secret thing I guess, and all
of a sudden that disappeared.
MR. STARK-I never remember on a ballot, Roger.
MR. MACEWAN-We did it one year, Roger.
MR. RUEL-Just one?
MR. BREWER-No.
it. We used to
down, throw it
York.
We did it many years. That's the way we used to do
all take a piece of paper and write somebody's name
in a hat, and Jim used to count them out, or Lee
MR. STARK-I don't ever remember that. I never did that.
MR. BREWER-That's the way it was done, and I'll tell you the reason
it was changed is because John Salvador, God bless him, was at one
of the meetings and they were talking about or whatever. He went
to Paul Dusek, at the time, and said that it was unconstitutional
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
because we didn't tell
the future just vote so
the reason we changed.
it or not.
who we were voting for. So Paul said, in
you can hear it, just to save face. That's
I don't know if there's any legal thing to
MR. SCHACHNER-There's certainly nothing involving any
constitutionality, but actually you are supposed to have votes not
be in secret.
MR. BREWER-And that was the issue with John Salvador.
MR. SCHACHNER-You're actually not supposed to have secret ballots.
MR. PALING-Well, that's not a.
MR. BREWER-It is. That's the way the Board used to do it for
years, and somehow John Salvador, I'll say no more.
MR. PALING-All right. Then lets go to the election of officers.
MOTION TO NOMINATE BOB PALING FOR CHAIRMAN FOR ONE MORE YEAR,
Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by
David West:
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Brewer
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MOTION TO NOMINATE CATHY LABOMBARD FOR SECRETARY, Introduced by
George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling:
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MOTION TO NOMINATE GEORGE STARK TO BE VICE CHAIRMAN, Introduced by
Robert Paling who moved for its adoption, seconded by Craig
MacEwan:
Duly adopted this 26th day of November, 1996, by the following
vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
ABSTAINED: Mr. Brewer
ABSENT: Mrs. LaBombard
MR. PALING-Okay. If there's no other business, then thank you all.
The meeting is adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 11/26/96)
Robert Paling, Chairman
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