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1997-02-18 QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING FIRST REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 18, 1997 INDEX Site Plan No. 2-97 The G.A.M.E., Inc. Tax Map No. 107-1-4.1 2. Subdivision No. 4-1997 PRELIMINARY STAGE FINAL STAGE Douglas Mabey Tax Map No. 137-2-4.1 5 . Site Plan No. 3-97 Randy Tompkins Tax Map No. 124-2-7.4 9 . Cont'd Pg. 26. 9. Cont'd Pg. 26. 10. Site Plan No. 4-97 Randy Tompkins Tax Map No. 124-2-7.4 Site Plan No. 5-97 Keith Cavayero Tax Map No. 179-24 Site Plan No. 6-97 Michael and Sarah Hayes 14. Adirondack Coffee Services, Inc. Tax Map No. 117-10-6, 117-11-2, 3 THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES. '- -..../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD FIRST REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 18, 1997 7:00 P.M MEMBERS PRESENT ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY GEORGE STARK ROGER RUEL TIMOTHY BREWER DAVID WEST MEMBERS ABSENT CRAIG MACEWAN PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON TOWN COUNSEL-MILLER, MANNIX, & PRATT, JEFF FRIEDLAND STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI CORRECTION OF MINUTES December 17, 1996: NONE December 19, 1996: NONE MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES DATED DECEMBER 17 & 19, 1996, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSTAINED: Mr. Brewer ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. Before we start the evening's agenda and new business, we're going to put in last time's discussion for Trzaska, for Richard Trzaska, and it's Subdivision No. 10-1996, and the proposal was to subdivide an 8.212 acre parcel into two lots, and it should be of 4.249 acres and 3.963 acres each, with a condition that limited clearance be indicated both as a deed restriction and also on the final plot plan, with a minimum of 400 feet from the wetland boundary. That any excess stormwater resulting from new construction be retained on site. MR. RUEL-Is that a motion? MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, it was. We didn't have the right acreage in there. MR. RUEL-But I remember this, and I came up with a separate motion to correct the 4.249, etc. I don't mind doing it over. MR. PALING-Yes. sure. I think we better just do it over again, to be MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes, I remember that now, Roger. - 1 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. PALING-It can be a motion and just say what the acreage change is now. MR. BREWER-Don't we have to withdraw the previous motion and then make a new motion? MR. PALING-I'm not sure there was one. MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes, it was adopted. It was passed. MR. RUEL-I'm sure, because I made the motion. I remember it. MR. PALING-Then why do we have this here now? MR. WEST-This is an amendment. MRS. LABOMBARD-It's an amendment, to amend the Final Stage. MR. PALING-Do you want us to rescind the existing motion? MR. FRIEDLAND-You could just amend the prior resolution. MR. PALING-All right. Okay. MRS. LABOMBARD-So the motion is to amend the Final Stage resolution for that subdivision. MOTION TO AMEND FINAL STAGE RESOLUTION FOR SUBDIVISION NO. 10-1996 RICHARD TRZASKA, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: To subdivide an 8.212 acre parcel into two lots of 4.249 and 3.963 acres each, with the condition that limited clearance be indicated both as a deed restriction and also on the final plot plan, with a minimum of 400 feet from the wetland boundary. That any excess stormwater resulting from new construction be retained on site. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Rue 1 , Mr. West, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSTAINED: Mr. Brewer ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Okay. Moving on. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. Now we're into New Business. NEW BUSINESS: SITE PLAN NO. 2-97 TYPE II THE G.A.M.E., INC. OWNER: DONNA L. DALY, INC. ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: CORNER OF HOMER & EVERTS AVENUE CHANGE OF USE. WHOLESALE AND MAIL ORDER WITH WAREHOUSE AND CATALOG SHOW ROOM. CROSS REFERENCE: UV 1335, UV 40-1989, SP 36-89 TAX MAP NO. 107-1-4.1 LOT SIZE: .65 ACRES SECTION: 179-26 ROBERT J. & DONNA SLACK, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 2-97, The G.A.M.E., Inc., Meeting Date: February 18, 1997 "The applicant is seeking approval of a site plan to allow a wholesale mail order business. The property located at 37 Homer Avenue is zoned LI-1A. The applicant indicates - 2 - ,/ '--' --...,,/ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) 20 on-site parking spaces will be provided which conforms to the parking requirements in the Zoning Ordinance. Currently no definition of the driveway entrance to this site exists. The Planning Board may wish to have the applicant remove some pavement and possibly provide some plantings which would help define the entrance to this site and separate the parking lot from Homer Avenue." MR. PALING-Okay. Would you identify yourselves, please. MR. SLACK-My name is Robert J. Slack. MRS. SLACK-My name is Donna Slack. MR. PALING-All right. Did you hear the comment about the lack of definition on your entrance? Do you have any comment on that? MR. SLACK-There is no definition on our entrance, as there was no definition on the next one, and we got subdivision on it about a year ago, where we had, you know, we put a new sewer in and everything else, and I thought that would have probably been addressed at the same time while we had it all pulled up. MR. PALING-Well, we keep coming in tighter and tighter on these things, I think for the long range good, and that whole, those two, I guess they're two parcels there, have no curbing or entrance definition at all. MR. SLACK-No, they don't. MR. PALING-And it is much better if we can have a curbing and an access, limited access, so the people aren't coming and going. Right now they can go any way they want to, in or out there. What would the possibility be of putting curbing and defining an access there? MR. SLACK-Well, to tell you the truth, we owned the fun center that was in there before, and we tried to sell the building, and we had absolutely no luck trying to sell the building, and we're basically trying to put a business in there to try to just generate some revenues to pay the taxes and everything, and I think it would be a hardship on us to have to do this. MR. PALING-How does the Board feel about this? MR. SLACK-Is the next door neighbor going to have to do it, too? Are we going to have to? MR. PALING-If they were to come in to do something. There's nothing we can do now, unless you come in with a change, there's very little if anything that can be done. MR. STARK-Well, we're familiar with the area, and ever since Petroski had built it for Debbie to put her gYmnastics, it's always been like that. There's never been a problem. I mean, Homer Avenue is not exactly a busy road. MR. SLACK-And we really don't expect much traffic in and out of the building. It's basically just the three or four employees that will be working there. MR. STARK-It would be different if it was Quaker Road or something. MR. PALING-Any other comments on this? MR. BREWER-The only thing I can think of or mention is if we did decide to do that is mound like we did with Tire Warehouse. Couldn't we do some kind of mounds or something, rather than rip up - 3 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) the macadam? MR. PALING-This is a little different, though. extensive work there. We did pretty MR. BREWER-Well, it doesn't have to be that extensive. We could have them mound or whatever. MR. RUEL-Berm. MR. BREWER-Berm, whatever you want to call it. MR. SLACK-Currently when the Town plows they like to kind of cut into our parking lot to plow it up into the corner there at the end of the street. MR. PALING-Use it for snow disposal, sure. MR. SLACK-Which we don't have a problem with, but that might leave them with a problem. MR. STARK-Homer Avenue and Everts Avenue, too, has a problem with high water table. MR. PALING-Okay. This is a change in use only. This is a Type II. SEQRA not required. MR. RUEL-What's the parking? MR. SLACK-We've got 20 spots in front of the building. MR. PALING-Okay. Why don't we open the public hearing at this point on this. Is there anyone here that would care to comment on this matter, pro or con? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-Okay. motion on it. I don't have a problem with it. Lets go to a MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 2-97 THE G.A.M.E., INC., Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: For change of use from wholesale to mail order with warehouse and catalog show room. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. HILTON-Just for the Board's information, we have included in your packets this week some prepared resolutions for each item. It's entirely up to the Board. MR. PALING-Did we have a resolution on that one? MR. BREWER-Yes. - 4 - --- '--, ---' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. PALING-All right. MR. RUEL-Would you like us to use those tonight? MR. PALING-Yes. MR. HILTON-That's entirely up to you. We prepared them. MR. BREWER-They're right on the back of every site plan. MR. WEST-Yes. They're on the back of all the Staff Notes, attached to each Staff Note. MR. RUEL-I don't have any Staff Notes. That's these, right? MR. WEST-Yes, that's an example of one. MR. PALING-Okay. MR. RUEL-Did you want us to spell all this out? MR. BREWER-Just as written, with no conditions, or whatever. MR. PALING-Yes, if there's going to be resolutions. Lets go ahead with the next, for Mabey. All right. MR. RUEL-Well, I don't have to re-do the motion, do I? MR. PALING-No, we don't have to use it. It's nicer if we do. MR. RUEL-Do you want to wait until next meeting? MR. PALING-We may have to, yes. We'll play it by ear. SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1997 PRELIMINARY STAGE FINAL STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED DOUGLAS MABEY OWNER: SAME ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: BIG BOOM ROAD WEST SIDE, JUST SOUTH OF INTERSECTION WITH TWIN CHANNELS ROAD PROPOSAL IS TO SUBDIVIDE AN 11+ ACRE PARCEL INTO 2 LOTS OF 6.0 ACRES AND 5.066 ACRES IN SIZE. TAX MAP NO. 137-2-4.1 LOT SIZE: 11+ ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS LEON STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Subdivision No. 4-1997, Preliminary Final Stage Subdivision No. 4-1997, Douglas Mabey, Meeting Date: February 18, 1997 "The applicant is seeking preliminary and final subdivision approval for a two lot industrial subdivision on Big Boom Road. The applicant seeks to create two lots, one 6 acres and one 5.066 acres, on property zoned LI-1A. The applicant indicates a proposed building on the 6 acre lot to be created as a part of this subdivision. Construction of this building is not a part of this application and will require a separate site plan review before the Planning Board. Staff has reviewed the submitted preliminary and final subdivision plats and finds them in compliance with the Zoning Ordinance. Staff recommends approval of the Preliminary and Final stage subdivision for Subdivision No. 4-1997." MR. HILTON-The applicant has sought, in writing, a number of waivers this evening, which have been provided to you, some of which, in a letter from Staff to the applicant, in a letter from Staff to the applicant there were addition things that Staff noted were not a part of this application that are required by the Subdivision Regulations. The applicant has since prepared a map to Staff with those additions on them, so that we have a map in our file which incorporates some of the items that were missing. As for the ones that were specifically sought written waivers for, - 5 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) they are still seeking those waivers before the Board this evening. MR. PALING-Okay. Now, George, I could only listen to about half of what you said because of trying to follow here. Do we have a list of the waivers being requested? MR. HILTON-We do. MR. PALING-Where? MR. BREWER-Right on these letters, Bob. MR. PALING-The two letters, okay. MR. RUEL-Four letters. MR. BREWER-Well, the first one was for Sketch, and then clearing, drainage, I'm writing them down. MR. PALING-Okay. You're writing them down, Tim? All right. That way we can go at them in order. MR. RUEL-So this waiver can be approved as part of the motion? MR. PALING-I would think so. MR. RUEL-These are normal waivers for two lot subdivisions. MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. RUEL-I just have one question. Why four letters? Put them all on one. MR. PALING-It's better than five, Roger. Tim, you want to go ahead and go at them one by one? MR. BREWER-Well, the waivers he asked for, one was Sketch was the first letter, then grading and erosion, a clearing plan and drainage report, are the waivers that you asked for. MR. STARK-And then the clearing. MR. BREWER-Yes, I said that, but I think we should make a motion, first, to do Sketch, before we get into Preliminary, right? MR. PALING-We're not asked to do Sketch. MR. BREWER-Yes, we are. MR. HILTON-They're asking to waive the Sketch Plan requirement. MR. PALING-Waive the Sketch, yes. MR. HILTON-If you are going to review the Preliminary, you may want to pass a motion approving the waiver from Sketch Plan. MR. PALING-I have no problem with waiving Sketch, as long as we're going to do Preliminary and Final. Is that all right with everybody? MR. BREWER-Yes. Lets waive Sketch first and then we can get into Preliminary and have the public hearing or whatever. MR. PALING-All right. MR. RUEL-Do you need a motion for the waiving of the Sketch application? - 6 - ./ '--' -..../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. BREWER-Period, yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. MOTION TO WAIVE SKETCH APPLICATION ON SUBDIVISION NO. 4-1997 DOUGLAS MABEY, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Okay. the Preliminary. Sketch Plan phase is waived, and we can move into Now we can talk about these. MR. BREWER-Right. I don't have a problem with any of the waivers that he's asked for, except for the one exception of maybe drainage, until maybe we find out a little bit more what he's going to do with that building, what it's going to be. MR. STEVES-Do you want me to address that? MR. BREWER-Would you please? MR. STEVES-Sure. For the record, my name is Leon Steves with Van Dusen and Steves, and the reason the building is shown, it's only a schematic location, and for purposes of fulfilling the requirements of Preliminary application on a two lot subdivision. I have no idea if that's anywhere near or what the final building will look like. MR. PALING-Okay. So there's no effect on drainage? MR. STEVES-Absolutely none. MR. BREWER-Okay. MR. PALING-Or permeation or anything else. MR. RUEL-Isn't that part of the site application? MR. STEVES-Site plan review will have to be given. MR. RUEL-Yes. So there's no need to even review it now. MR. STEVES-Correct. MR. PALING-Not really. Okay. Then do you have any further comments on this that we should know about? MR. STEVES-None at all. MR. PALING-No? Okay. All right. Why don't we go to the public hearing on this, then. I'll open the public hearing on the Douglas Mabey application for Preliminary and Final approval of the subdivision. Does anyone care to comment on this? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED SHIRLEY STANFORD MRS. STANFORD-My name is Shirley Stanford and I've never been to - 7 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) one of these things before, so I don't really know what's going on. I am a property owner there on Big Boom Road. How does that effect me as a property owner? What kind of subdivision is this, and what does it effect, as far as? MR. PALING-All they're doing right now is to subdivide it into two lots, but the zoning doesn't change and they're not saying, and they maybe perhaps don't even have any idea what will be built on there eventually, but it would have to be within the Light Industrial zoning to be built there. It would have to come back here for a site plan approval, and you would also be notified at that time, if you live within 500 feet of this lot, but all they're doing tonight is just drawing a boundary line, making one lot into two. MRS. STANFORD-Okay. Thank you. MR. PALING-All right. Thank you. Any other comment? Okay. If not, we'll close the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-This is a Type Unlisted SEQRA. Now we can do a Short Form on this one. RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OP NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE RESOLUTION NO. 4-1997, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer: WHEREAS, there application for: is presently before DOUGLAS MABEY, and the Planning Board an WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: 1. No federal agency appears to be involved. 2. The following agencies are involved: NONE 3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury. 4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant. 5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by law. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: - 8 - ,/ '- -..../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Okay. We can go right to a motion, unless there's any comment or questions by the Board, and we can do Preliminary and Final in one motion, can we not? MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. MR. BREWER-Jeff, can we do Preliminary and Final in one motion? MR. FRIEDLAND-Sure. You can do it either way. MR. BREWER-I don't ever, ever in my life recall doing that. MR. STARK-No. MR. BREWER-Can we do that in two motions? MR. STARK-Jeff, we did preliminary and final in the same night, but it always required two motions. I never heard of it in one motion. MR. FRIEDLAND-You can do it either way. motions, or Preliminary first and then perfectly acceptable. MR. PALING-Do it both at the same time and let it stand. You can do it in two Final, either one is MR. BREWER-Fine. I just don't remember we ever did that. MR. STARK-It's never been done. MR. RUEL-It's okay the way it is? MR. PALING-Yes. MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 4- 1997 DOUGLAS MABEY, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer: To subdivide an 11.066 acre parcel into two lots of 6 acres and 5.066 acres. This motion also includes approval to waive the following plans: Grading, erosion, clearing, and drainage. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan SITE PLAN NO. 3-97 TYPE: UNLISTED RANDY TOMPKINS OWNER: WEST MT. SKI CENTER ZONE: P.U.D./RC-3A LOCATION: WEST MOUNTAIN SKI CENTER PROPOSAL IS FOR A TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET LICENSE POR A NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN FEST TO TAKE PLACE ON JUNE 4 - 5 1997. WARREN CO. PLANNING: 2/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 124-2-7.4 LOT SIZE: 125 +ACRES SECTION: P.U.D SITE PLAN NO. 4-97 TYPE: UNLISTED RANDY TOMPKINS OWNER: WEST MT. SKI CENTER ZONE: P.U.D./RC-3A PROPOSAL IS FOR A TRANSIENT MERCHANT MARKET LICENSE FOR A MOTORCYCLE HILL CLIMB ON JUNE 6, - 9 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) 1997. SIZE: WARREN COUNTY PLANNING: 2/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 124 - 2 -7 . 4 LOT 125+ ACRES SECTION: P.U.D MR. PALING-Okay. George? STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 3-97, Randy Tompkins, Meeting Date: February 18, 1997 "The applicant is seeking two site plans for different transient merchant markets which will be held at West Mountain Ski Center. The first event, a Native American Festival, will be held on June 4th and 5th, 1997. The second event, motorcycle hill climb, will be held on June 6, 1997. The applicant has provided one site plan for both applications. This site plan and a letter submitted on behalf of the applicant on January 21, 1997 outline how the festivals will operate and what services will be available to vendors and patrons. The applicant should provide further information on the amount of noise that will be generated by motorcycles on the day of the hill climb. The applicant should also provide information on what type of site re-vegetation will be provided after the hill climb." MR. PALING-Is there someone here representing the applicant? That's not going to be easy. MR. RUEL-That's not necessary. MR. BREWER-Why don't we put it off until. MR. PALING-Lets see if he shows up tonight. Lets just push it aside and we'll try to do it. I'm not comfortable, because I think your two comments at the end are very valid, and I won't be comfortable unless we have an answer to those. All right. Lets just put these aside and go on to the next one, and we'll come back to it and hope they show up. Okay. So this brings us to Cavayero. SITE PLAN NO. 5 - 97 TYPE II KEITH CAVAYERO OWNERS: KEITH CAVAYERO/ELYSA BARON ZONE: CR-15 LOCATION: 13 MAIN STREET, NORTH SIDE OF MAIN STREET, WEST OF NEW CVS BUILDING PROPOSAL IS TO RENOVATE EXISTING BUILDING FOR PROFESSIONAL OFPICE WITH ASSOCIATED PARKING AND SITE WORK. BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 2/10/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 2/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 130-3-22, 23 LOT SIZE: .40 ACRES SECTION: 179-24 JON LAPPER & JIM MILLER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 5-97, Keith Cavayero, Meeting Date: February 18, 1997 "The applicant is proposing the renovation of an existing 827 square foot building as a professional office. The .40 acre site located on Main Street is zoned CR-15. The site plan indicates 12 parking spaces will be provided which meets the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance. The applicant should provide easements for future connection to adjacent commercial properties as required in Section 179-66.1. All comments from the Town's Engineering Consultant should be addressed prior to Planning Board action on this site. II MR. HILTON-And the Town of Queensbury Committee for Community Beautification has reviewed this item, and in a resolution dated the 10th of February 1997, the landscaping plan was approved as submitted, and the resolution was signed Miss Karen Doughrety. MR. PALING-Okay, and evidentally we have a very brief reply from Mr. Levandowski that he approves their, that they've addressed our comments. - 10 - ../ '~ ''-" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. RUEL-Yes. MR. PALING-George, do you want to cover any of those Rist-Frost items? MR. HILTON-Well, in an initial letter dated February 12th, Rist- Frost has written a letter to the Town of Queensbury and the applicant's engineer stating some concerns with septic system and potential stormwater management drainage at this site. The applicant, in response to Mr. Levandowski, outlined plans for this site for the specific area, and then briefly in a letter dated February 14, 1997, Mr. Levandowski just stated that the response satisfactorily addresses his comments and that he in a sense approves the plans. MR. PALING-Okay. I guess we can take it as it's written, and the County approved it and the Beautification Committee approved it. MR. RUEL-In other words, the applicant will have to get the Warren County Department of Public Works to approve the entrance and exit? MR. HILTON-They will, because Main Street is a County road, they will have to have that approval, yes. MR. RUEL-But when he says response is satisfactorily addressed, he means that they will, in fact, take care of it? MR. HILTON-He expects them to receive County approval. MR. RUEL-It doesn't mean that they already have approval. It means that they will apply for it. Okay. Thanks. MR. MILLER-Just one thing. My name's Jim Miller. I'm the Landscape Architect. A drawing has been submitted to Roger Gebo at the County, and we haven't gotten a response back. We're essentially replacing a driveway in the same location where it was. So we don't anticipate there'll be a problem. MR. RUEL-It's the same location, but it's a lot different, right? MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. LAPPER-For the record, Jon Lapper. I just wanted to point out, to remind the Board, Dr. Cavayero and his wife, Elysa Baron, are the original developers of the site. The first CVS that we did on Main Street, they're Chiropractors, and we did a zero lot subdivision which is just two lots away from this, and so half of that project is being built for them, and they're the owners of the office and retail space in the back. They're going to relocate their office to that which is under construction now. At the time that we were doing the development work on that, this building came on the market and Dr. Cavayero expressed an interest and picked it up, and now his plan is just to develop this. Originally he was renovating it into a residential use, and he was approached by a commercial tenant, and the purpose for this is so that he can change it into a commercial use as it's zoned, and he hired Jim to do the site plan to clean it up, but this was a site that was a real junker when he bought it. It's been substantial demolition just to clean it up to get it to where it is now. Now he's looking to clean it up and it'll be very nice when it's done. MR. STARK-Jim, you've been allover the building. This building's older than you. Can you really renovate the inside of that like that? MR. MILLER-He's had a contractor in there, and they, you know, they've completed some of the demolition. They've stripped a lot of it down to the stud walls, and it's structurally sound. - 11 - - (Queens bury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. STARK-I question the septic system. Because that's such an old building, probably from the 30's, you know, when they used to have 55 gallon drums for the septic systems instead of 1,000 gallon, I know it probably doesn't have a thousand gallon septic tank. MR. MILLER-Well, that was one of the questions that Rist-Frost raised, and as far as we know the system's in the back corner of the site and when we get in and start the renovation, we'll have to try to find out what's there. One of the things, the office that's proposed will have a lot less use than the residence that was there. Because an office use is very low by comparison. As a matter of fact, it's about 1/3 of what the residential use is. So there's no evidence of failure or anything, but when we're going through the renovation and the construction, we'll have to do some more investigation on the septic system and if it's substandard bring it up to Code. MR. PALING-Okay. policing? How are you policed on that? Are you self MR. MILLER-Well, the building inspector will have to sign off on, prior to getting a CO, sign off on all plumbing and septic and everything is functional. MR. RUEL-I see a handicapped parking area. handicapped person get to the ramp? How does the MR. MILLER-Well, they would have to cross the driveway. MR. RUEL-Yes, but isn't there a curb there? MR. MILLER-No. There's a flush curb there. There's a curb that comes up across here, but in the area where the ramp comes down to grade, it'll be a drop curb, so it'll be flush across here, and then a ramp will come up around the corner of the building to a landing and to a new entry in that corner. MR. RUEL-It's not shown. I didn't see a detail on it. MR. MILLER-Yes. It says flush curb on the grading plan. MR. RUEL-Thank you. Next question. Are you doing away with the sidewalk completely, where the driveway is? MR. MILLER-Well, we were going to have it just come meet the driveway flush, and then have the asphalt driveway. MR. RUEL-Asphalt driveway's going over the sidewalk? MR. MILLER-Yes. The sidewalk would be removed, and the concrete sidewalk would meet it flush. MR. RUEL-And the new sidewalk you're putting in is, what, eight inch instead of four. Is that right? MR. MILLER-It would probably be four, a standard sidewalk. We were going to leave the driveway as asphalt. We weren' t going to extend the sidewalk across the driveway. MR. RUEL-Why didn't you leave the sidewalk and just bring the driveway up to it? MR. MILLER-Well, right now it's not in very good condition, and plus I don't think that we met it with pavement and drove over it I think it would further deteriorate, because I don't think it's thick enough to support wheel loads. So we were going to remove it in that area. - 12 - '--' '-.- -~. "" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. RUEL-But the driveway will be flush with the existing sidewalk? MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. RUEL-There'd be no problem as far as the sidewalk is concerned? MR. MILLER-That's right. MR. RUEL-Thank you. MRS. LABOMBARD-Jim, are you knocking down part of that house, because when we were there, I just don't see how you could get all that parking on the west side. Isn't there another little place right in there? MR. MILLER-No. MRS. LABOMBARD-But you're not taking any of that house out? You're using the same foundation, I mean the same plot that it was on? MR. MILLER-Yes. MRS. LABOMBARD-It just seems like there's so much more there than we saw. MR. WEST-This looks a lot different than what we saw on Saturday. MR. RUEL-This is better? MR. WEST-Well, the position of this building doesn't seem like, unless we were at the wrong place, George. MRS. LABOMBARD-Is this the yellow place? MR. MILLER-No. This is the dark brown one. Right to the west of us is the existing office that's there, and there's a parking lot. MRS. LABOMBARD-Wait a minute. What do you mean? What existing office? MR. MILLER-I don' t know who is in it. office that has been renovated. It's a small one story MRS. LABOMBARD-Is that Dr. Welsh's office? MR. MILLER-I think it may be. MR. BREWER-Yes. It used to be the pool place. MR. MILLER-The yellow one is to the east of this, and it's half the size of this lot. This is actually a double lot. These are small lots. You were in the one next door I think. MRS. LABOMBARD-So you're there, I've gone up and down there a million times. MR. MILLER-We're the third one up from CVS. MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. We should have been more west. See, I was thinking that, from what we saw, that right to the right of that building or the east of that building was the new plaza, but it's not. MR. MILLER-No. I think there's a yellow one and another one. Those are single lots. Then we're the third one up and this is a double lot. So that's why we've got more room. MR. STARK-Do you have any plans to buy those two? - 13 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. LAPPER-Dr. Cavayero would like to buy them if they come on the market, but who knows. MR. PALING-Okay. Lets open the public hearing on the Cavayero application. Is there anyone here that would care to talk about this? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED NO COMMENT PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-All right. This is a Type II. So we don't have to do a SEQRA. We can go right to a motion. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 5-97 KEITH CAVAYERO, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark: To renovate existing building for professional office with associated parking and site work. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Thank you. MR. MILLER-Thank you. MR. LAPPER-We hope they're all as simple as this. SITE PLAN NO. 6-97 TYPE II MICHAEL AND SARAH HAYES ADIRONDACK COFFEE SERVICES, INC. OWNERS: SAME ZONE: LI-1A LOCATION: 8 WESTERN AVENUE, NORTH OF COOL BEANS APPLICANT PROPOSES TO RENOVATE AND EXPAND EXISTING BUILDING FOR COMMERCIAL SHOPPING CENTER WITH ASSOCIATED PARKING AND SITE WORK. CROSS REPERENCE: UV 2-1997 AV 3-1997 BEAUTIPICATION COMM.: 2/10/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 2/11/97 TAX MAP NO. 117-10-6, 117-11-2, 3 LOT SIZE: .79 ACRES SECTION: 179-26 MICHAEL O'CONNOR & JIM MILLER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT STAFF INPUT Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 6-97, Michael and Sarah Hayes, Meeting Date: February 18, 1997 "The applicant proposes to renovate an existing commercial property on Western Avenue. The proposed construction has received a use variance and area variance from the ZBA. The building square footage at this location will be increased from 9,016 square feet. The applicant proposes to provide 31 parking spaces, 28 of which will be devoted for uses associated with this site plan. Based on the gross leasable area of this center, the number of spaces that will be provided will meet the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance. As a part of this site plan, the applicant is also providing new green space and plantings on site. All comments from the Town's Engineering Consultant should be addressed prior to Planning Board action on this site plan. II MR. HILTON-The Town of Queensbury Committee for Community Beautification met and reviewed this item, and on the 10th of - 14 - ~ --- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) February voted to approve the landscaping plan as submitted. The resolution is signed by Karen Dougherty. Also the Warren County Planning Board, on the February the 11th meeting, reviewed this item with a recommendation of No County Impact. The comments being "With the condition that the curbing be reviewed by the City of Glens Falls and that the Applicants conform to the Plaza Commercial requirements with the exception of no pylon sign allowed." MR. PALING-Why is he specifying the City of Glens Falls? Don't we know anything about curbing? MR. HILTON-Well, I think that the ownership of Western Avenue at that point is City of Glens Falls, and that they have to approve any improvements. So that's where that comes from. MR. RUEL-On that side of the road? MR. HILTON-Yes. MR. PALING-It seems a little strange. MR. RUEL-Did they do this with Cool Beans. MR. BREWER-There wasn't any curb cuts for Cool Beans. MR. RUEL-Yes, but the whole thing is curb cut. MR. BREWER-I think, Mike probably would know, but I think they had to talk to the City about the parking there, Cool Beans. MR. RUEL-Yes, I think so. MR. PALING-Why is it we have to do this with the City of Glens Falls? Is it their property or what? MR. HILTON-They issue curb cut permits and review curb cuts on Western Avenue. So they would be the municipal governing body that would approve such a curb cut. MR. PALING-And was this done? MR. HILTON-It will be done. MR. PALING-As a condition. Okay. MR. RUEL-Where is the border on Western Avenue, in the center or? MR. O'CONNOR-At our property line. PLINEY TUCKER MR. TUCKER-It varies. MR. RUEL-It varies. MR. PALING-All right. That'll have to be part of the resolution, then, that that will be done, if that's what's required, okay, and the engineering comments have been addressed and they're okay. MR. RUEL-I have a question about the engineering comments. The first item on the Rist-Frost letter, was anything proposed for the shoulder of Western Avenue adj acent to Cool Beans to control, prevent parking? I think, it seems to me that the plan indicates that it would be several parking spaces allocated for Cool Beans. So why should there be a shoulder between? MR. HILTON-Well, I can't speak for Mr. Levandowski, but that was just a comment wondering what the status was in front of Cool - 15 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) Beans, that there was going to be any change with this application. I think the applicant can speak to that this evening. MR. RUEL-I'd like to know what the response was in that area. MR. PALING-Would you identify yourselves, please, and perhaps comment on that. MR. MILLER-Yes. I'm Jim Miller. There is no proposed changes for the parking, the parallel parking along Cool Beans, and one of the concerns is the treatment of where we're showing some pavement being removed along Western Avenue, whether that'll be curbed or shouldered. We've met with Joe Sullivan from the City, Tom Nace, did, and reviewed this and he's approved the driveway cuts and the extent of the work. Conceptually he's asked that the surveyors go out and mark on the pavements the exact limit, since everything is paved out there now, what will be removed, and because of the snow and the weather, we haven't been able to do that yet. Part of the concern there is that that site's fairly flat. I mean, there's a catch basin in front of our property, and we haven't proposed any curbing or anything along there. We don't want to block drainage into that catch basin, but we've shown curbing in the areas around our driveways. MR. RUEL-Okay. At this time, I'd like to express a statement about the parking at Cool Beans. I know that this came before the Planning Board some time ago and approval was given, and the approval was for parallel parking, parallel to the sidewalk. I haven't seen anyone park that way yet. They all park at an angle, and these cars, back end of the cars, are out in Western Avenue, and this is a very dangerous situation, and no one has tried to correct it. Now what I'd like to propose, if at all possible, if you are the owners of that property plus Cool Beans, for safety's sake, could you possibly put the Cool Beans parking where you already have three or four or whatever, extend that to include more parking, and do away with the parallel, so called parallel parking on Western Avenue, which does not exist. It's not enforced, and it's extremely dangerous. MR. O'CONNOR-Basically this application is not of the Cool Beans property. It of the adjoining property. I'm Mike O'Connor and I speak for the applicant. The intent here, though, and we can get into it a little bit when we get into our presentation, we actually think that we're going to improve the usage of even the Cool Beans property, because of the way that we're setting up this parking. If you notice, on our site plan what we've done is move three parking spots off of the area that backed out onto Western Avenue into the first three stalls for this particular site. We'll dedicate them to use for customers at Cool Beans. In fact, we anticipate that there'll be people that will stop, this is going to be like convenience type stores in this building that we're going to renovate, and perhaps we'll be able to encourage people to stop, do their business, and then walk over to Cool Beans. There will be a continuous sidewalk between the two sites. MR. RUEL- Yes, I understand that. What I was asking for is to increase the number of parking areas from three to something else, in order to prevent that angled parking. MR. O'CONNOR-We aren't limiting it. We are not going to limit it. It's going to be first come first serve as far as any of the additional parking. If everybody, if they use, you know, different peak hours. I've not really done a study as to what the parking is going to be, peak hour wise. MR. RUEL-Well, I'm glad to see you are allocating space for Cool Beans. - 16 - ~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. O'CONNOR-We now have some people that park across the street, even, in the Shop N' Save, and it's going to be a much better walk for them to park on our site where we're now proposing, and then walk to Cool Beans. We think that it's going to improve it. You're also going to, as we get into it, the prior use of this property, the Daggett building, has had paving from the edge of the building right out to the Town road or the City road, as it happens to be, and when they used to have the vehicles there, they used to back out or whatever, and they used to block vision. They used to do all kinds of things. Right now there's going to be unobstructed vision along a good part of the whole front of that site, which actually should also benefit traffic, benefit the parking problem and everything else that comes along in that nature. MR. RUEL- I appreciate all your proposed improvements. However, I'm still in favor of doing away with the parallel parking in front of Cool Beans. MR. PALING-I don't think we can address that issue. MR. BREWER-Well, I would like to just make a comment to that. I think, as I remember, Cool Beans had parking, these three in front that Roger's talking about, and they had three up against the fence. Now that they're eliminating those parking spaces away from the fence, I think it does have something to do with it. MR. MILLER-Those three we're showing on the site plan are the three that, when Cool Beans was approved (lost words) . MR. O'CONNOR-I think in our approval we said we would reserve three spots for Cool Beans, and we are reserving three spots for Cool Beans. We're not trying to limit it, Mr. Ruel. The parallel parking is within the City, and I think that's, we don't have a depth to do other than parallel parking along that area, if you take a look at where our property line and what not is. MR. BREWER-It's funny because some times you can go by there and as amazing as it is, you'll see three cars parked parallel. Eighty percent of the time you see them parked the other way, but it's funny. I go by there almost daily, and sometimes you do see them parked like that. MR. O'CONNOR-I think it depends on how the first car parks. MR. BREWER-Exactly. MR. MILLER-Well, plus the entire site is paved there now all across the front of this building, and everybody is parking perpendicular now, in front of this building, the old church and all the way down there. MR. O'CONNOR-If people see cars parked in a perpendicular area right here, then they're encouraged to maybe do the same thing here. When you take a look at, this is the old site, and you look at the whole new site, that all is going to be eliminated, and maybe it's going to discourage people from being the only solider that sticks out by himself, and either have him go parallel or go into that parking lot. MR. BREWER-It's a tough spot. There's no question about it. I mean, there's, unless you stand out there and try to police them, there's nothing you can do. MR. STARK-How are you going to restrict only three parking spots for Cool Beans? I mean, suppose 10 cars come in there and they all? MR. O'CONNOR-We have no problem with that. - 17 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. STARK-Or if somebody stops there and they park in one of the Cool Beans spots. MR. 0' CONNOR-We're going to have signs up, "Reserved for Cool Beans Parking", to the degree that we can. I think, actually, that this whole proposal is actually going to work much to the advantage of Cool Beans. This area in here we intend to have a beauty shop. What type of traffic you're going to have, whether it's going to be the same flow as in this operation here I don't know, but there's got to be some give and take with the traffic flow. Do you want us to get off into questions, we'd be happy to? MR. BREWER-Jim, tying into the sewer where there's a manhole, isn't that thing covered, filled in, some black top over the top of it? MR. MILLER-No. serve the CVS. That's the new manhole that was extended up to MR. BREWER-When did they put that out, right on the corner? MR. MILLER-Yes. I think they did it last fall. MR. BREWER-I don't recall. there's not a drain? There's just a cover there then, MR. MILLER-It's a sanitary manhole. It's the sanitary sewer. The City sewer was extended up for CVS. MR. BREWER-Right, but there used to be a drain there, didn't there? And then Brian Granger, I think, filled it in or covered it or something. The water always laid there. MR. RUEL-It's always flooded, right? There's no drain there. MR. BREWER-Is there anything that can be done to let the water drain into that? MR. MILLER-Up at the corner by Cool Beans? MR. BREWER-Yes. MR. MILLER-I don't know. MR. BREWER-I mean, you're tying into it. MR. MILLER-Well, no. What we're tying in to is the sanitary sewer. MR. BREWER-The sanitary sewer? drainage? All right. Nothing to do with MR. MILLER-No. The only thing we did on stormwater was on our own site. MR. RUEL-Mr. Chairman, do we have to grant a waiver on permeability requirements as part of this? MR. HILTON-The Zoning Board of Appeals has granted an Area Variance for the permeability on the site. The Zoning Board of Appeals has granted a variance for this application, to allow the permeability to be below the 30%. MR. PALING-Okay. So then that's not an issue. MR. RUEL-So we don't have to do anything on that. MR. 0' CONNOR-The permeability is actually greater after the project than it was before, and I do point out that the green area in front of the property that's part of the City property was not included - 18 - '--" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) in the calculations. If you actually included that in the calculations, you'd be beyond your 30%. MR. RUEL - I've got one more thing, and this has to do with the traffic flow. You have entrances and exits at both driveways. Is it at all possible to have an entrance on one side and an exit at the other, in order to cut down the amount of accidents? MR. MILLER-Well, the reason we've set it up this way is that we feel that the primary entrance is going to be on the end toward Cool Beans. That's directly across from the main driveway from Shop N' Save, and we figure that parking lot's probably going to get the most activity, and then if it's full, we wanted it one way around the back, so that the second lot basically becomes more of an overflow lot, and the reason we didn't have a one way system there is that in the new building, if we have a tenant, somebody comes in to, somebody's trying to get into that building, they won't know enough to go in the other driveway and drive all the way around. So what we felt is that they ought to each be two way driveways, just for convenience, and then just have the one way around the back, to allow overflow. MR. RUEL-But it would be a lot safer to have it just one entrance and one exit. MR. O'CONNOR-Not necessarily, because if you have some trucks in the back there making some deliveries and what not, people wouldn't be able to come back out the way that they came in. MR. RUEL-You mean it's not always open in the back? MR. O'CONNOR-It would be open most of the time, okay, but if you were going to come in and stop at the store on the most northerly end, you could pull into that lot and come right back out that way, as opposed to getting involved with going around the back of the building. You'll notice there's a jog in the buildings in the back, with the idea that any truck traffic that's going to service those buildings would go past the building and go northerly and then back into its spot. That's sometimes going to be a delay item. MR. RUEL-I didn't realize that. That could be blocked. MR. O'CONNOR-It could be temporarily blocked. I don't think it should be blocked for any long period of time, but it really doesn't give you good traffic flow. You've got people waiting for something else that's unnecessary for them to wait. MR. RUEL-Is there enough space there for emergency and fire apparatus, it's that close? MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. RUEL-It does meet those requirements? MR. MILLER-Yes. MR. O'CONNOR-You're also not talking that long a run. This isn't a tenth of a mile or a quarter of a mile. It's a couple of hundred feet. Emergency vehicles stopping at either end of that building would be able to service the full site. MR. RUEL-Without having to go all the way through? MR. O'CONNOR-Yes. MR. RUEL-Okay. - 19 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. PALING-All right. Lets open the public hearing on the Adirondack Coffee Services application. Is there anyone here that cares to speak about this? PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. PALING-Go ahead, George, you have a letter. MR. HILTON-We received a letter dated February 13, 1997, from a Louise Worth, and I'm going to read the letter. It says, "James Martin, Concerning the application of Michael Hayes for a shopping center, I attended three meetings before "Cool Beans II went in, after seeing how our town government "functions" I would never attend another one. Where is there enough room for a shopping center? Coming from the Luzerne Road now is a nightmare, the cars and trucks that park at Cool Beans make it impossible to make a left or right turn unless you're in the middle of the road, with traffic coming from Shop N' Save and now they want traffic coming out of a shopping center. How do you propose to control II that " traffic hazard without numerous accidents, there's been a dozen accidents at that intersection already. I used to go on Paul Street, the only safe exit. As of January, Paul St. has been "closed". In the 30 years I've lived here Paul St. has always been a public road maintained by the Town. How can you simply "close" a road that has always been open to the public? Now "you II want to (Michael Hayes wants) a sewer system in this area. Who is going to pay for this, the residents are all low to middle incomes. How are we suppose to afford this, (another Quaker Road sewer district) . To my knowledge you have never shown any interest in this part of Town, now they are receiving top priority. We are all still "taxpayers". If this shopping center materializes I suggest to put up a sign "Enter at your own risk". Putting a shopping center there is like squeezing 12 children into a Volkswagen. Why doesn' t Michael Hayes or Mike O'Connor construct this in their backyard. You wanted my comments, you have them. Sincerely, Louise Worth" Paul Street was formerly a Town right-of-way that ran from this property to the west. That has since been abandoned. It's not a Town road, and that portion of the old Paul Street which used to lie under this property is now part of this property and owned by the applicant. MR. O'CONNOR-I think in 1990 or 1991 the abandonment proceedings were completed by the Town. Periodically the Hayes' have blocked it off, and I think even the owner behind them, which also got a piece of it, has actually built a fence across the piece that he got. What they've done is there was a short street. They cut it into fours, one fourth went to CUrtis, one fourth went to an owner, one fourth went to Adirondack Coffee and one fourth went to Daggetts, and different ones have done different things, but the title to that is in the Hayes Corporation. Title to that, and we've cleared that because there was an issue in one of the other hearings, is insurable, and we intend to ensure it. We don't think there's any problem with the title. I think you have to take a look at the existing site and take the comparison as to what we are doing, and I think you will come to a conclusion that there's an overall improvement. You did a site plan review for the church not too long ago, and that was a very tough fit trying to come into some use of that particular property, and only after weighing a lot of the economic expense of actually demolishing that building and demolishing the other office building did we come up with this particular plan which was the idea of trying to put together something that was actually usable that would be attractive to the tenants, it would be attractive to the patrons and be of benefit to the Town. Shopping center is perhaps a misnomer, as far as this 9,000 square foot building that we're going to have there. A lot of single uses are larger than that. I actually offer it to you as being a good solution to trying to revitalize the existing properties, the existing uses. You've got to do something with - 20 - ~ '-.-' (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) them. That's how we got these variances. It's not an industrial site. MR. BREWER-Do we know what the uses are going to be? MR. O'CONNOR-The tentative uses right now, we have nothing signed, is that we are going to have a barber shop or a beauty shop, a drycleaner and a liquor store. MR. BREWER-No Chinese Restaurant? MR. O'CONNOR-Not that I'm aware of. MR. BREWER-They kind of fit altogether. MR. O'CONNOR-That's the intent at the moment. MR. RUEL-You will demolish that church? MR. O'CONNOR-We are going to demolish the church. MR. RUEL-That's surprising, because not long ago they received an okay for a site application on that. MR. O'CONNOR-Right, and it just didn't materialize. It's an odd building. You go by and take a look at that building. My suspicion, and I get off into odd unrelated things, but my suspicion is that that was built as a cellar, and the actual portion that's occupied was built after the fact. For a long period of time, I think that was occupied in a cellar only. MR. PALING-Okay. If I haven't before, I will close the public hearing now. Wait a minute. TAMMY HERMANCE MRS. HERMANCE-Hi. I'm Tammy Hermance. I live in the area of Holden Avenue. My mother and father-in-law also reside there. They've lived there for 40 years, and I have to agree with Mrs. Worth's letter, and I'm glad to hear that somebody else has responded to this, because I have attended numerous meetings for numerous different things for this area and the Town of Queensbury seems to be any effort in for the residents. They seem to let everything go right by, and if something like this comes along, it seems these people get to have what they are applying for. Basically, we are being pushed out of the area. We're residents, and it's becoming all commercial in this area, and we're going to suffer because our properties are going to decrease in value. Our taxes are going to increase, especially if this sewer plan goes in and it overrides their budget plan, then we the taxpayers are going to have to pay for this, and also if this goes in, our properties are going to decrease. We're not on an acre of land, any of this in this whole surrounding area, we're under an acre of land, and for it to be sold even for a commercial use it wouldn't be able to because you need an acre of land for that, and so for us to even be able to sell our house or to do anything it's not going to do us any good, and to stay there, we're just going to get surrounded by all of this. MR. PALING-How close are you? I'm not familiar with the streets. MRS. HERMANCE-We're on Holden Avenue. MR. PALING-How far away is that? MRS. HERMANCE-The back yard. MR. PALING-In the back of this? - 21 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. RUEL-parallel to Western? MRS. HERMANCE-Yes, parallel to Western. We're right next to Curtis Lumber. MR. RUEL-Does that go all the way through to Luzerne Road? MRS. HERMANCE-Yes. MR. RUEL-Is that in the back of Curtis Lumber? MRS. HERMANCE-We're on the side of Curtis Lumber. MR. RUEL-On the side. MR. PALING-Is that all zoned Light Industrial, that whole, where her home would be? MRS. HERMANCE-It's Light Industrial and Residential also. MR. HILTON-It's Light Industrially zoned. At the present time the Curtis property just to the west is zoned Light Industrial. MR. RUEL-Part of it was re-zoned by Curtis Lumber not too long ago. MR. HILTON-When Curtis Lumber went in there I believe, yes, their property was re-zoned to Light Industrial. MR. RUEL-Now they'll be moving out of there. MR. HILTON-Now they should be moving out. MRS. HERMANCE-And now there's application for re-zoning to commercial, and that's going to hurt us as residents. MR. RUEL-You don't think that would be any economic advantage? MRS. HERMANCE-I wish it were, but no. If it were, I wouldn't be here complaining. We need, even if somebody were to want to buy our property for commercial use, it's not situated on an acre of land. It's less than a half acre for each of our properties, and in order for a commercial use, it has to be on an acre of land, and the banks won' t finance for anything under an acre. So if somebody were to want to buy my house, they wouldn' t be able to get financing through the bank. So they would need cash, and I don't see that happening. MR. PALING-Unless they bought the other lots, the adjacent lots, too. MR. RUEL-Yes, they could buy other lots. MRS. HERMANCE-But what if they buy the lot next door to mine and then they don't buy mine? Curtis Lumber's right next door to my window, and so what happens, I mean, I'm sure they're probably already in the process of buying Curtis Lumber for all I know, which I'm sure they are. So they're going to be right next door to my property line. They don't have to buy me. So they're right next door, and if they zone this commercial, that eliminates, right now they have to have a 50 foot buffer. Curtis Lumber bought the property right next door to my house and they were required, in the Light Industrial zone, to have a 50 foot buffer, and they tried to put a building there. I came to the meeting and they were required to stay 50 feet from my house. So they were unable to do anything with the property. If this goes commercial and somebody wants to put a building there, they're going to be able to, and they're going to be sitting right on my property. I have a little boy at home. I don't need all this hassle next door to my house. - 22 - '~ ~ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. RUEL-You need a transitional zone, instead of just commercial to residential. MRS. HERMANCE-If this does even get approved, can't this stay Light Industrial? Does it need to even be commercial? MR. BREWER-We're not changing the zone. MRS. HERMANCE-Yes, I know that, but it is pending. There's an article in the newspaper, just about a week and a half ago, saying that there is an application pending before the Town to re-zone that area to commercial. MR. PALING-Okay. Now that's a Town Board matter. MRS. HERMANCE-Right, but I'm just saying, if all this takes place, it's hurting us as residents, no matter what it is. MRS. LABOMBARD-Tammy, how do you propose your taxes would go up? I mean, I have an idea, but I want to just hear what you have to say. MRS. HERMANCE- If the sewer, they're proposing to put a sewer system in or whatever, there was an article in the paper stating that when the CVS Pharmacy, or this happened on Quaker Road when a sewer system was put in up there. The exorbitant rates for the first several years, their taxes went up because it overrode their, I can't even think straight. I'm sorry. MR. STARK-There was a certain person up there that didn't pay their share, and the other ones, I think you're probably more familiar with this than I am, Mike, but I guess Hiland Park didn't pay their half, and everybody else had to pick it up then. MR. PALING-Yes, but there's a different answer than that, though. If you want, you can request to be let out of the sewer district, and this, I live off of Quaker Road, and this is what we're faced with, and we'll just ask out of the sewer district. MRS. HERMANCE-Because it says the residents around Quaker Road, for the first several years, had increased taxes. MR. PALING-Well, we would have if we'd stayed in the sewer district, but we can ask to get out, and I would think you could do the same. MR. BREWER-They're not creating a sewer district, are they? They're just tying in to the existing sewer. MR. RUEL-There is a sewer. MR. HILTON-Right now they're just tying in. MR. BREWER-So the Town's not creating a sewer district in that area. What they're doing is essentially just tying in to where the fire house and the CVS tied in to the Glens Falls system, isn't it? So they're not creating a sewer district in that area, if that's what you're thinking. MRS. HERMANCE-So that means that's not going to effect the residents, as far as, if it were to override their budget, then the taxes would not increase for area residents? MR. BREWER-It has nothing to do with your taxes, because they're paying for everything. It's just to service that one building. In other words, they're just running a line, if you want to look at the print, I can show you. They're running a line from their building to the corner where CVS tied in and the West Glens Falls - 23 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) Fire House tied in. So it has nothing to do with your street or the houses on your street. MR. PALING-All right. I thought this was a similar thing to Quaker Road. This is a different set up entirely, and that has, again, no bearing on what we're doing. MR. BREWER-They're just tying in to an existing. MRS. HERMANCE-Well, why is this article in the paper, then, because they're talking about this issue right here. "A new CVS Pharmacy being built between Main Street and Luzerne Road is equipped with a new sewer line, and the company chose to extend all the way to West Glens Falls Fire House. The Fire House is going to be expanded this year and officials there sought sewer service. Between the Pharmacy and the Fire House are several homes and apartments and Town officials said if they can be pulled into a new district cost effectively, it could be the foundation of a district in that area of Town. To me, this is just a first step to let you know we're thinking about it, Betty Monahan stated. II MR. PALING-Well, it's back to the other example. You can ask out of that, too. MRS. HERMANCE- "There are property owners who own a cluster of buildings and lots between Luzerne Road and the Curtis Lumber facility that front Western Avenue, there is an application pending before the Town to re-zone that area commercial. The land which is bordered by Luzerne Road, Columbia Street and Western and Holden Avenues is currently a mix of Light Industrial and residential properties. Although not all property owners in that block have sought out the commercial zoning, Town officials said some land owners who have residential lots are interested in the commercial tag. Some of the homes have been for sale, but the commercial tag would give interested buyers more options. The shopping plaza across from Western Avenue, which is anchored by Shop N' Save, has changed the character of the neighborhood in recent years." MR. PALING-It sounds to me like it could even be an advantage. If they do form a sewer district, you could ask out. MR. BREWER-This building doesn't form a sewer district. I understand what she's saying. MR. RUEL-It has nothing to do with this. MR. PALING-It doesn't. MR. BREWER-It potentially could, but. MR. RUEL-Yes, potentially, if they expanded. MR. STARK-Mrs. Hermance, remember when Pete Mosher had where Cool Beans was, and Cool Beans went in and it made the area 100% better, okay. MRS. HERMANCE-Correct. MR. STARK-Remember when Daggetts and Adirondack Coffee, where they are now and everything, and he wants to clean up and put more green area in there and not have, I don't know how many trucks Mike had in there, but he had 30, 40 trucks going in and out of there very early in the morning. I mean, now it's going to be normal business hours in there. I mean, I would think that this whole area is cleaning up and going to look a lot better, 100% better than. MRS. HERMANCE-You're right in that. You're right, it is going to look nicer, but what happens to us as residents? I mean, we're - 24 - '~ '-'" (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) just being pushed out of the neighborhood. That's the only thing I'm worried about. I mean, you're right it's going to look better. The whole area in that area needs to look better. Even the residential area needs to look better, and we've fought issues where the Town of Queensbury has let dumpy trailers be put in, and we tried fighting that and they let it go in. MR. RUEL-The applicant is not taking any residential area. MR. PALING-Okay. Did you have anything else? MRS. HERMANCE-No, I guess that's it. MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Any further questions? All right. The public hearing is still open. Is there anyone else that cares to speak? MR. O'CONNOR-Just for the purpose of the record, I'll make two comments for the purpose of the record. This property does not adjoin the last speaker's property in any manner. Curtis Lumber Company is immediately next to us. That is an industrial use. It extends all the way from Western Avenue to Holden Avenue. Our property doesn't even go all the way back to Holden Avenue. This property is between, Curtis Lumber Company is between us and the Hermance property. Secondly, I don't know whether or not a sewer district is going to be formed or not. What we have is we're going to have an out of district contract with the City of Glens Falls. We are going to make an agreement with CVS, Jon Lapper is still here, that will allow us to hook into the line that they constructed, and the same line that the Fire Company is in. We will pay for all construction costs of the hook up, so there will be no district cost or anything of that nature. We will pay a user fee to the City of Glens Falls. As with any hook up to a municipal sewer, we will have to agree that if there is a district formed, our property would go into the district, and whether the Town Board does that or not, I don't know, but I've talked to Mr. Champagne, and Mr. Champagne understands the manner in which we want to proceed so that we can do our construction this spring, and he has indicated that the Town Board has no objection to that. We have a request in to the City of Glens Falls for their permission to hook up, and it's all a matter of getting all three parties to agree on paper, in essence they have all agreed that this is the way that we will go forward. MR. PALING-Okay. Well, this gets into touchy areas and a lot of it isn't in our jurisdiction even, and we get in kind of a clumsy position, but I think we can go ahead, especially where there's no abutment involved, we can go ahead with this, unless there's any further comment or questions from anybody on the Board? All right, if there is no further comment? Okay. I'll close the public hearing. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED MR. PALING-This is a Type II so we do not need a SEQRA. We can go right to a motion, unless there's further discussion. MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 6-97 MICHAEL AND SARAH HAYES ADIRONDACK COFFEE SERVICES, INC., Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by Catherine LaBombard: To renovate and expand the existing building for commercial shopping center. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: MR. RUEL-I agree with everything in the application, with the - 25 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) exception that I still insist that the parallel parking in front of Cool Beans should be eliminated. Therefore, I vote no on this. AYES: Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Paling NOES: Mr. Ruel ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Okay. MR. O'CONNOR-We thank you. I didn't comment on it, but I suppose I should. I'm still waiting for a ruling as to whether we're going to need a variance for the signs. We have no problem with that issue. The comment from the Planning Board, and I should have mentioned it, was that we should be treated as a Plaza Commercial for signs. They would object to a freestanding sign, but would understand that we would have one wall sign for each occupant, like you do in a Plaza Commercial. MR. BREWER-Yes, but you're not in a Plaza Commercial, are you, Mike? MR. O'CONNOR-That's the issue, what type of signs do we have? Are we entitled to an industrial sign because we're in industrial, we've got a Use Variance to do a Plaza Commercial use, and I may have to go back before we get done. I'm waiting for somebody to tell me whether or not I've got to go back for an actual Sign Variance, but I just meant. MR. BREWER-That would be Jim Martin. MR. O'CONNOR-Thank you. MR. PALING-Okay. Do we have someone here for the Randy Tompkins application? My question on this one has to do with the destroying of the land and the noise that these motorcycles are going to generate, and I'm not comfortable going ahead with this. Now, the question has been raised as to whether we can obj ect to their tearing up the land or not. MR. HILTON-Tearing up the land? Certainly I think you can object and that can weigh in your motion for approval or denial for this site plan. If you have some major concerns and think that it's going to be a detriment to the community, based on that certainly I think you can vote with that in mind. The only thing that ~ would say is that this is an application for a transient merchant market for June, and at this point, there's a great deal of time between now and June. The applicant is not here tonight. The Board may wish to at least open the public hearing this evening, you know, start any preliminary discussion, leave the public hearing open, and then possibly next week we can get the applicant in here. MR. PALING-And then table it until a week from tonight. MRS. LABOMBARD-You mean like a preliminary discussion among ourselves? MR. HILTON-If you'd like to do that. You could at least open the public hearing so that, you know, for advertising purposes, no re- advertising would be necessary, at least the public hearing would be open. MR. PALING-All right, and will you talk to the applicant and tell him that there's a concern with noise and what's going to happen to the land and will it be restored, and is there any other questions? - 26 - - -..../ (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. STARK-Do you know the applicant? I mean, do you know how to reach him and everything? MR. HILTON-Well, we have a phone number with the application, and we can certainly contact the applicant that way. Now, I personally, you know, Jim has been working with this applicant for some time. They've had some meetings. We'll make every effort we can to get in touch with them and make sure that they at least are aware that we're going to be hearing this next week. MR. STARK-Maybe he thought he didn't have to be here or something. MR. HILTON-Well, we also send each applicant in writing a mailing that indicates which meetings they have to attend. So they were notified that they had to attend this meeting. MR. BREWER-Bob, can we get some kind of a better map, too, better than that? I have no idea where it is on the mountain. MR. STARK-I know what you mean. MRS. LABOMBARD-That's the map of the West Mountain parking lot. MR. RUEL-That's where the building is. MR. BREWER-It's going to be in the parking lot? MR. PALING-No, it can't be in the parking lot. MR. BREWER-That's what I'm saying. MR. PALING-All right. Would you add that to our request? MRS. LABOMBARD-Where is it going to be, inside the Ski lodge? MR. PALING-No, it's going to be on the hill. hill climb. It's a motorcycle MR. BREWER-On the face of the mountain. MRS. LABOMBARD-I'm talking about the Native American Festival where they're going to sell stuff. MR. STARK-It's at the foot of the mountain. MR. HILTON-My indication has been it's going to be at the base of the mountain. MRS. LABOMBARD-I'm thinking of like Summer Jam, you know, where they have all those people in there. MR. PALING-Well, wherever it's going to be, they should locate it, so we know on a map, and can go take a look at it. MR. RUEL-Isn't that were the present building is? MR. HILTON-Well, there is a building out there. Where they're actually having the festival will be on the face of the mountain on the ground. There'll be vendors set up at tables which will be outside. MR. RUEL-The hill climb must be on the hill. MR. HILTON-The hill climb itself, yes. MR. BREWER-Yes, but is it going to be right on the face of the mountain? How far up? - 27 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MR. STARK-It isn't going to be the whole face, that's for sure, because that's one long hill climb. MR. HILTON-Well, I can certainly pass that information on to the applicant. MR. PALING-We've got three items so far. Any other? MR. RUEL-Yes. I'd like to point out one thing to the Chairman, and that is, the applicant has indicated that motorcycles will have standard exhaust systems, so that the, many of the hill climbs I've gone to, they remove the muffler and they just have straight pipes, and they are very noisy. However, this applicant has indicated that he will use standard exhaust systems on the motorcycles. MR. WEST-Yes, but a dirt bike, even with a little muffler, is very loud. MR. RUEL-Well, if it's standard, it shouldn't be too bad. MR. BREWER-It can be loud, especially if you get 30 or 40 or 50 of them at eight o'clock at night. MR. HILTON-I think it would be beneficial to have the applicant here. MR. PALING-Yes. The question of noise has been raised. Would you please get them to elaborate on what will and won't be done with the mufflers or whatever? MR. RUEL-What can you do about the noise? MR. PALING-It depends upon what he tells us, what the noise is going to be. Is he going to use straight pipes, mufflers? MR. RUEL-I just told you. It's written in here. I read it. MR. BREWER-But, Roger, there's a big difference between a standard exhaust system on a dirt bike than there is on a street bike. MR. RUEL-But there's only one motorcycle running at a time. MRS. LABOMBARD-And then they're going to just clock them. MR. RUEL-Yes, that's what it said in there. It said one motorcycle at a time, and they're going to time them, from the start up to as far up as they can go, and that's the way most hill climbs are. MR. BREWER-I don't know. I've never been to one. maybe a couple or three or whatever. I would say MR. RUEL-No. It's usually one at a time. MR. HILTON-Well, hopefully the applicant will be there next week to clarify it. MR. PALING-Okay. I'm going to open the public hearing on this matter, if there's anyone that cares to speak about it. There isn't anybody right now, but we'll leave the public hearing open. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED MR. PALING-Now, is there any further, we've got three items we're asking about. You've got them. MR. HILTON-Yes. MR. PALING-We don't need to repeat now. - 28 - -- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) MRS. LABOMBARD-Is there anything that we should know about Thursday? I mean, you gave us a new packet tonight? MR. PALING-Wait a minute. Okay. What should we do, table this? MR. HILTON-Yes. MR. PALING-Okay. We'll have a motion to table this. MR. RUEL-I thought we needed the approval of the applicant to table this? MR. PALING-No, you do not. MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 3-97 AND 4-97 RANDY TOMPKINS, Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer: Until next Tuesday, February 25th. Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan MR. PALING-Now, I request ACC remove the cameras. MR. BREWER-Why? MR. PALING-You didn't ask us before if you could be here tonight. I've got a request for you to be there Thursday night, which I said okay to. You came in tonight unannounced and everything, and I said okay go ahead, but I'm asking you to terminate it now. Okay. The question has been raised about Indian Ridge, and do you have comments on this, George? MR. HILTON-Well, the packets that have been distributed to you this evening contain the Staff comments, or else you've received them by this time. The only comments I would say are read our comments. We've spelled out everything there. The meeting will be Thursday night. The public hearing, 7 p.m. MR. RUEL-I have a question. They propose legal action on Indian Ridge in March? MR. HILTON-It's due to be heard, I believe, in March. MR. STARK-Yes, but that's not against us, though. That's against the Town Board. MR. RUEL-Yes, I know. Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot better if we had this meeting after that? MR. HILTON-I can't say it wouldn't be cleaner or more certainty on what status the litigation would be, but nothing prevents them from coming in with the application. MR. RUEL-I know that, but I get the feeling that most of the comments will have, 90% of the comments will have to do with the Town Board and not with the Planning Board. MR. HILTON-That could be. There's criteria set out in the Zoning Ordinance for the review of preliminary stage of a P. U. D. My - 29 - (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) comment would be to just review our Staff notes and that Section of the Ordinance. MR. PALING-179-58, you better know it. MR. STARK-What are they attacking on the Town Board? I mean, how are they appealing it? MR. BREWER-SEQRA. MR. HILTON-Well, they filed an Article 78 on the SEQRA approval attacking, I believe, and I'm not certain, the validity of their findings regarding SEQRA, beyond that, I don't know specific details. I haven't read any of the briefs or paperwork that has been filed with this. MR. FRIEDLAND-I could tell you more, and if you want to talk about it, I suggest we go into Executive Session to talk about pending litigation, if you want me to tell you more. MR. STARK-I just wondered. MRS. LABOMBARD-I'd like to hear it. MR. PALING-All right. Session. We have a motion to go into Executive MR. BREWER-These people have got to leave. MR. PALING-Yes, right. STUDENT-We're working on it. This was a class assignment that we were told to be here. We didn't just show up unannounced. MRS. LABOMBARD-Then it's your professor that we should be speaking to. MR. PALING-No, we were contacted about Thursday night, and I said fine, but I did not know about tonight. MR. BREWER-But on the same hand, Bob, could I make a comment? I think when we shut them off like that, it gives the appearance that we're trying to hide something. MR. PALING-Well, then it's on me. Everything we're saying is on record. it be. I'll take the heat on it. So if it's on tape, then let MR. BREWER-I'm just telling you what I think. STUDENT-You can still call the professor, Ron Pesha, and tell him you don't want it done. MR. PALING-No. I have no objection to you being on as long as we know about it. We have the opportunity to object, and we don't usually object at all. MR. BREWER-They air it on Channel 8 tomorrow night at five o'clock. I think the following night after a meeting, five o'clock. It won't be live. MR. RUEL-There's no law against recording? MR. PALING-No, there's no law against recording. MR. RUEL-So there's no need for them to even have permission. MR. PALING-I think if I feel that it's going to impose an undue - 30 - ~ -' -/ , (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) influence on, just make them too upset, I think I have a right to call him. MR. RUEL-Yes. MR. PALING-That was my judgement. We're still on tape, and I just don't want to turn this thing into, I knew what was coming, and I think the subject, are we going to be on camera or not? Thursday. MR. BREWER-What's the big problem? MR. RUEL-They're part of the public. MR. PALING-Any time you turn at. v. camera on, you change the complexion of things. MR. BREWER-Bob, it's shown the day after. It's not live. It's not like Channel Six or something. MR. PALING-You change it around. MR. BREWER-How do you change it? MR. PALING-People act differently in front of a camera, Tim. MR. BREWER-Is all we're going to talk about Indian Ridge now? I don't need to know. I don't care, really. MR. PALING-Now, is anyone going to be absent Thursday? MR. BREWER-I'll be here. MR. PALING-Okay. Everybody will be here. MR. WEST-Is Craig going to be here? MR. PALING-I don't know. We'll have to ask him. I assume he will be. Okay. We are in Executive Session. MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS PENDING LITIGATION, Introduced by George Stark who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert Paling: Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Stark, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Brewer MOTION TO TERMINATE EXECUTIVE SESSION, Introduced by David West who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roger Ruel: Duly adopted this 18th day of February, 1997, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Paling NOES: NONE ABSENT: Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan On motion meeting was adjourned. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, - 31 - -- (Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 2/18/97) Robert Paling, Chairman - 32 -