1997-03-18
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QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 18, 1997
INDEX
Site Plan No. 8-97
Lionel o. Barthold
Tax Map No. 1-1-34, 1-1-35.1
1.
Site Plan No. 9-97
Tri-County Auto Auction
Tax Map No. 105-1-11
4.
Site Plan No. 10-97
Top of the World Golf Resort, Inc.
Tax Map No. 24-1-5.2, 5.3, 6.1,
6.2, 6.3/24-2-47.1 (Portion)
11.
Site Plan No. 11-97
Richard P. Schermerhorn, Jr.
Tax Map No. 48-3-34.1
14.
Site Plan No. 14-97
Joseph Leuci
Tax Map No. 67-2-1.3
22.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
"
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 18, 1997
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
ROBERT PALING, CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
GEORGE STARK
ROGER RUEL
DAVID WEST
TIMOTHY BREWER
CRAIG MACEWAN
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
TOWN COUNSEL-MILLER, MANNIX & PRATT, MARK SCHACHNER
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
CORRECTION OF MINUTES
January 21, 1997: NONE
January 28, 1997: NONE
February 18, 1997: NONE
MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF JANUARY 21, 1997, JANUARY 28, 1997
AND FEBRUARY 18, 1997, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 18th day of March, 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Paling
NOES: NONE
MR. PALING-Okay. If there is anyone here for the Indian Ridge
application, that will not be on the agenda tonight. The applicant
has temporarily postponed, or has postponed, I guess temporarily,
his application to the Planning Board. It may be taken up later.
So if you're waiting for Indian Ridge, it won't happen.
MR. HILTON-Actually, Bob, in speaking with Jim Martin this
afternoon, he had asked me to read the Rist-Frost letter into the
record. Now there must be some miscommunication here.
MR. PALING-All right. Then if it's going to be, why don't, no,
lets leave it that way and do it in order, but everyone here knows
that all that's going to happen, is there anyone here for Indian
Ridge? Okay. Then if that's the case, why don't you read it into
the record now.
MR. HILTON-Okay.
MR. PALING-And make note of what it is that is.
MR. HILTON-Okay. Sure. It's a letter dated March 17, 1997, from
Rist-Frost Associates to Mr. James Martin. The letter reads as
follows, "As the Town Planning Board considers our March 4, 1997
letter regarding the selection of a hydro-geologist sub-consultant
we feel it appropriate to restate or make several comments
regarding the project. 1. Rist-Frost considers itself
professionally competent to have reviewed the technical aspects of
this project to date including the groundwater issues and reaffirms
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
its favorable comments regarding the adequacy of hydro-geological
investigations and conclusions, as well as the storm drainage and
sewage system design concepts of the project. In our opinion, a
proper and adequate hard look was taken concerning this issue
during the environmental assessment done by the Town Board.
However, if the Planning Board wishes to be responsive to the
hypothetical situations and technical analysis presented by Mr.
Allan D. Randall on behalf of Citizens for Queensbury at the
February 20, 1997 public hearing and/or participate in the approach
requested by the Board in paragraph 2 of its February 24, 1997
letter to the applicant, we recommend that we be authorized to
engage a hydro-geological sub-consultant. Our letters of March 4
and March 5, 1997 further discuss this option. 2. The issue of
the beaver dam influence on the water level in the wetlands should
be addressed by the applicant and reviewed, but it is our opinion
that even if groundwater flow from a portion of the development
could flow toward the wetland, sufficient horizontal and vertical
separation exists so that the proposed sewage and storm drainage
design would still meet current design standards. Please call if
you have any questions. Very truly yours, RIST-FROST ASSOCIATES,
P.C. William J. Levandowski, P.E."
MR. PALING-Now that was Indian Ridge. Is there any other letters
you wanted to read in or comments?
MR. HILTON-I have one other letter attached that I will read in,
and it's a letter from Little & O'Connor. It's signed by Michael
J. O'Connor, who is counsel for the applicant. It's dated March
18, 1997, and it reads as follows, "Dear Jim: I wish to confirm my
telephone conversation with you on March 17, 1997, with regard to
the position of developer as to requested paYment of fees for
hydrogeologist, subconsultant to Rist-Frost. We have received the
material that you have forwarded in connection with same and are
presently reviewing same. We do not have a position to pass to the
Planning Board and will not have a position for the meeting of
March 18, 1997. I'm not sure whether we will be in a position to
have an answer for the Planning Board at its meeting of March 25th.
As soon as I have the necessary information, I will pass same to
you. Very truly yours, Michael J. O'Connor"
MR. RUEL-Do you have extra copies of these letters?
MR. PALING-It's in your packet.
MR. RUEL-Okay. I'll keep it with the rest of Indian Ridge.
MR. PALING-Okay. Then that's as much as we'll do with Indian Ridge
tonight. The process will have to be re-started when the applicant
is ready. Okay.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 8-97 TYPE II LIONEL O. BARTHOLD OWNER: SAME AS
ABOVE ZONE: WR-3A, C.E.A., APA LOCATION: 10 WOODS POINT LANE
PROPOSAL IS TO ADD A 550 SQ. FT. ADDITION TO EXISTING HOUSE.
EXPANSION OF A NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE IN A CEA IS SUBJECT TO
REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. CROSS REFERENCE: AV
34-1992/SP 18-92 TAX MAP NO. 1-1-34, 1-1-35.1 LOT SIZE: 3.46
ACRES SECTION: 179-16, 179-79F
MR. PALING-Okay. George.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 8-97, Lionel O. Barthold, Meeting
Date: March 18, 1997 "The applicant is proposing a 550 sq. ft.
addition to an existing building located on Woods Point Lane. This
expansion of a nonconforming structure requires site plan review
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
per the zoning Ordinance. The expansion meets the setback
requirements of the WR-3A zone. Lot permeability at this location
will conform to the requirements of the WR-3A zone. Staff foresees
no adverse impacts associated with this site plan and recommends
approval of Site Plan 8-97."
MR. HILTON-Now, another piece of information that we have on this
is that the applicant, in a letter dated March 17th, has stated
that he cannot be here this evening, but he would ask if you can
proceed without him. He would be willing to have you do that, with
the understanding that any discussion that you may have would be
continued to the hearing of the 25th. However, if there are no
concerns this evening, and you feel that you have enough to just
vote on the application, you can certainly do that.
MR. RUEL-So it would be left open until the following week, if
necessary.
MR. HILTON-Until next week, yes.
MR. PALING-We' II give ita try, and see if we can do it. Why don' t
we just go right, the applicant's not here, so we don't we go right
to the public hearing. Is there anyone here that would like to
talk about the Lionel Barthold application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-Any comments, questions, on the part of the Board?
MR. RUEL-He's adding a bedroom.
MR. WEST-Five hundred and fifty square feet.
MR. RUEL-Yes. This would have an effect on the septic system, but
the existing septic system is adequate, even with the addition of
the other bedroom.
MR. HILTON-That will come under review when he applies for a
building permit, and we will make sure that the system's adequate.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. PALING-Okay. Any other comments or questions on this? It's a
Type II. So we don't need a SEQRA.
MR. HILTON-Correct. No SEQRA is needed.
MR. PALING-Okay, and we do have a resolution on this.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 8-97 LIONEL BARTHOLD, Introduced by
Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
As written on the resolution.
Whereas, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of Site Plan
No. 8-97 LIONEL BARTHOLD to add a 550 sq. ft. addition to
existing house. Expansion of a nonconforming structure in a
CEA is subject to review and approval by the Planning Board;
and
Whereas, the above mentioned application, dated 2/14/97,
consists of the following:
1. Application
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
2. Drawings 1 - 4
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following
documentation:
1. Staff Notes
2. Letter dated 3/10/97 from applicant with drawing.
3. Notice of Public Hearing dated 3/11/97
Whereas, a public hearing was held on 3/18/97 concerning the
above project; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements
of Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury
( Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury (Zoning); and
Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act have been considered; and
Therefore, Let It Be Resolved, as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board, after considering the above
hereby move to approve Site Plan No. 8-97 LIONEL BARTHOLD.
2 . The applicant shall present two copies of the above
referenced site plan to the Zoning Administrator for his
signature.
3. The Zoning Administrator is hereby authorized to sign the
above referenced plan.
4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this
resolution.
5. The conditions shall be noted on the map.
6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zoning Administrator and site
plan approval process.
Duly adopted this 18th day of March 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West,
Mr. Brewer, Mr. Paling
NONE: NONE
SITE PLAN NO. 9-97 TYPE II TRI-COUNTY AUTO AUCTION OWNER: F.T.
& E.P. COLLINS ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: EAST SIDE OF BAY ROAD
APPROX. 500 FT. SOUTH OF QUAKER ROAD. BUILDING IS LOCATED ON THE
PROPERTY BEHIND THE FORMER CUSHING FLORAL SHOP. NEW OCCUPANT.
EXISTING BUILDING, NO PHYSICAL CHANGES. FORMER OCCUPANT WAS
ENTERPRISE RENT-A-CAR. ALL LAND USES IN HC ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO
REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. BEAUTIFICATION COMM.:
3/10/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 3/12/97 TAX MAP NO. 105-1-11 LOT
SIZE: .48 ACRES SECTION: 179-23
MICHAEL FISHER & ROLAND MORITO, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No.
Meeting Date: March 18, 1997
9-97, Tri-County Auto Auction,
"The applicant is proposing to
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
operate an automobile repo and sales business at the former
location of Enterprise Rent-A-Car on Bay Road. Tri-County Auto
Auction will be a new occupant and no physical changes to the site
are proposed. Setbacks, parking, and permeability will be the same
as what currently exists at this location."
MR. HILTON-At a March 12, 1997 meeting of the Warren County
Planning Board, this item was heard, and the recommendation of No
County Impact, with a resolution signed by Tracey Clothier, and
here we also have Committee for Community Beautification
resolution, signed by Mary Lee Gosline, approving as submitted.
MR. PALING-I hate to be picky for the sake of being picky, but
where is that approved? By the lack of negative comment?
MR. HILTON-By the lack of negative comment.
MR. PALING-Okay.
tonight?
Is someone representing the applicant here
MR. MACEWAN-George, did you just say that they did approve that?
They didn't approve that. After the line that says, "Applicant did
not appear", the Planning Board wishes to go on record that it does
not approve. Isn't their normal procedure that if someone doesn't
show they don't, historically, approve something that they don't
have a presentation for? They don't take any action at all.
MR. SCHACHNER-Right. I think this is no action by the
Beautification Committee. The applicant did not appear, is what it
is says. That's normally where it says whether it's approved or
not. The language below that says, "wishes to go on record that it
does not approve" that language appears on every single
Beautification Committee resolution.
MR. MACEWAN-Right, but what I'm driving at is they don't normally
approve by default.
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, they could but in any event, if they do, they
write that out. I think that this is a non decision by the
Beautification Committee.
MR. MACEWAN-Thank you.
MR. PALING-Would you identify yourselves, please.
MR. FISHER-Michael Fisher.
MR. MORITO-Roland Morito.
MR. PALING-Is there any reason you didn't go to the Beautification
Committee meeting?
MR. MORITO-I can tell you the exact reason. John Goralski brought
us the letter by hand, the day after the Beautification Committee
board meeting. We had no knowledge that the meeting even existed
at all.
MR. PALING-That's a good reason.
MR. MORITO-As a matter of fact, he came in and said, by the way,
here's the letter we forgot to mail out. You missed the meeting
last night.
MR. RUEL-I have a question for you.
sales, and repossession?
You're in the sales, auto
MR. MORITO-It's going to be a wholesale company.
repossession company.
We do have a
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. RUEL-Is that a separate company?
MR. MORITO-Yes, it is.
MR. RUEL-And you go and repossess automobiles?
MR. MORITO-Well, actually, I'm a locksmith up there. I've been a
locksmith up here for about a year and a half. I'm partners in
this business. He owns the repossession company.
MR. RUEL-So it's actually two companies, an auto sales company and
a repossession company?
MR. MORITO-Right. The repossession takes place between him and the
bank, but the car gets dropped off at the auction for sale.
MR. RUEL-But you also take on assignments on repossession for other
banks and organizations?
MR. MORITO-Right. It's not a glamorous job, but it pays the bills.
MR. BREWER-How many cars are you going to have there, at any given
time?
MR. MORITO-Well, we're planning on holding an auction every
Wednesday, which means, chances are, when dealers come in, as fast
as the cars show up is as fast as they'll be leaving. We're not
planning on having any more than 30 cars here at anyone time.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Are you going to do any repairs or any of that
stuff there?
MR. MORITO-No.
MR. BREWER-Just strictly sell the cars?
MR. MORITO-Strictly sell. They go out as is, the way we bring them
in.
MR. STARK-You know where you have the cars parked now,
perpendicular to Bay Road? Now you're not going to park them
there? You've got plans to put them alongside the building?
MR. MORITO-Right, as soon as the snow goes away.
MR. STARK-Where will the sale be held, inside the building or
outside?
MR. MORITO-Well, what we're planning on doing is tagging the
windshield. Every dealer comes in, gets a number, okay. Dealers
won't, it won't be a drive through type thing where they hold up
signs and that. They'll write down what their bid is on. The bids
will get turned in inside the office. All they'll be doing is
walking around the lot and placing the bid on the vehicle inside
the office. So it's not going to be a drive through type deal.
MR. PALING-Okay. This is a Type II, public hearing. All right.
Do you have any further comment that you wanted to make?
MR. FISHER-Just about the only thing I can think of, most of the
time, 30 cars will be stored there between the hours of nine and
one on Wednesday, max 50 cars. That's it.
MR. PALING-Okay. Otherwise, a lot fewer cars. That's the max for
your auction?
MR. FISHER-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
3/18/97)
MR. BREWER-Is it going to be a day, if you had a car there, say, on
a Tuesday, if somebody wanted to come in and buy it, then they go
in and buy it?
MR. MORITO-From the public, if the public wishes to come in and put
a bid on a car, we will submit it to the bank. We're probably the
only auction in New York State that would do that, which appeals to
the banks, because of course they do make more money from a public
buyer than they do a dealer. A dealer wants to pay, you know, 15,
20% of book, where somebody from the public will be more than happy
to give half of book for the car, which in turn pleases the bank,
you know, they're not going in the hole that far, but it is a
wholesale.
MR. PALING-Okay. Then lets open the public hearing on this matter.
Does anyone care to comment on the Tri-County auction application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-It's a Type II. So we can move right to a motion.
MR. RUEL-I have a question about this resolution. On this first
page, at the bottom, Item One. It says, "The Town Planning Board,
after considering the above, hereby moves to".
MR. HILTON-You would either approve or, that option is there for
either approving or denying or tabling or whatever you may choose.
MR. RUEL-That's only an option here, in this case?
MR. HILTON-Well, I mean.
MR. BREWER-Does anybody, do we think we should limit it just to 50
cars or 100 cars? Before we approve the motion.
MR. MACEWAN-What is the maximum that parcel will allow?
MR. HILTON-Well, based on this use, there is no listing for a repo
business within our Zoning Ordinance. So the parking requirements
would be something that you would have to determine.
MR. MACEWAN-What would happen if you have your auction and you have
35 cars there on a Wednesday for the auction and you only get rid
of 20 of them. Does the remainder of the stay there until next
week's auction?
MR. FISHER-It depends if some of the dealerships want to remove
them. The dealership, the cars that we have, that we have
repossessed, that are being stored there, that go into the auction
line, those will stay there until Wednesday. One o'clock, whoever
made the best bid, the car will be disposed of and gone by
Wednesday evening. Occasionally a dealership might bring a car in
to dispose of it there, because they're going to get rid of it
wholesale compared to the dealer auction. They're going to get a
little bit more money for it. So a dealer will bring it in for the
hours of nine and one, and that's it. The car is out of there.
MR. MACEWAN-There's no hold over to the following week?
MR. FISHER-Occasionally you might get one that doesn't get a good
enough bid and the bank's not happy with that, so it might get a
hold over.
MR. MACEWAN-How long would you hold it over for?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. FISHER-A maximum of two weeks. Outside of that, the vehicle
would be considered salvage and sent off to a junk yard.
Thankfully we haven't had that problem yet.
MR. RUEL-George, is there anything in the Ordinance indicating a
maximum number of vehicles in a given area?
MR. HILTON-Like I said, we have our parking requirements. With a
business like this, there's no listing for apartment schedule.
It's something you as a Board, if you felt comfortable with a
certain number, could work into your motion, but to answer your
question, no. There's not a maximum number of vehicles.
MR. RUEL-Would the Board like to place a maximum on it?
MR. BREWER-Well, I think he's showing 32 spaces. If we said
somewhere near 50, I mean, I don't think that's unreasonable.
MR. WEST-Where are you going to put them?
MR. PALING-When you do go to 50, are you going to go back in to
where the rent/storage space is?
MR. FISHER-Yes.
MR. PALING-Okay. You will go back in there.
MR. FISHER-Yes. That's where the actual line up of the cars will
be.
MR. PALING-Now, whoever runs that or owns that, they approve of
that?
MR. MORITO-Yes. Mr. Collins said if we didn't wish to put them
there and we wanted to put them, you know, further back, we could
in fact park them behind the warehouse that he has, way back in.
He says he's got seven acres of land.
MR. PALING-Okay. If he should ever shut that down, I think it
would be a different set of circumstances. For the number of cars
you could have there, you wouldn't be able to fit 50 in if you
didn't have that privilege.
MR. MORITO-If he does happen to shut that down, we'll have to go
rent another piece of property and come back right here in front of
you tonight and see if it's okay.
MR. MACEWAN-Where do you propose to park the cars of the people
that are coming to the auction?
MR. FISHER-Right now, you know where the cars are parked, obviously
you've seen the site. Okay. Right there is where we could park
the vehicles at. As far as we could see, from the snow, we can't
really see what's on the ground. So that's about the best place
that we could find to park the vehicles right now. We're not
familiar with the property because since we've rented the property
there's been nothing but at least two feet of snow on the ground.
MR. MACEWAN-How many people would you anticipate on an average
would come to the auction to bid on cars? I mean, is it just the
immediate Glens Falls area car dealers that come?
MR. WEST-Is it limited to dealers only?
MR. FISHER-Only nine in the morning until one
afternoon on Wednesday is limited to dealers only.
regular office hours are nine a.m. to six p.m.
0' clock in the
After that, our
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
3/18/97)
MR. RUEL-Probably no more than a dozen dealers there for the
auction on one day?
MR. FISHER-Depending. Basically, it's a very limited auction size.
I mean, compared to Northway Auto Exchange, where the run just
about a thousand cars a day through, okay, of course they have
100's of dealers coming through. We're talking maybe 40, 50 cars.
Okay. There's not that many cars there. So there's not going to
be that many dealers that are interested. Basically, your used car
dealerships are who's going to be coming to this.
MR. RUEL-Is it like a regular auction where you have a public
address system or something like that?
MR. FISHER-No. It's what's called a sealed bid auction.
MR. RUEL-I see.
MR. FISHER-Okay. The cars aren't driving. They're not moving
through a line where people are screaming out, yelling, okay. You
don't have an auctioneer standing up going, $2100, $2200. You
don't have that. The dealer goes up. They look at the vehicle.
They place their bid; what they feel it's worth to them, and they
hand it to us.
MR. RUEL-Yes. They don't drive the vehicle.
MR. FISHER-No. They might move it forward five feet and back five
feet, but that's the extent of it. They don't drive it all around
the lot.
MR. RUEL-And that whole area is boxed in with buildings off of Bay,
right? They've got the cleaners.
MR. FISHER-Between the landscape and buildings, yes, it's boxed in.
MR. RUEL-Yes. It's all in the back, right?
MR. FISHER-Yes.
MR. WEST-It's a tight location. There's no question about that.
MR. BREWER-Well, I just think if you get into that situation where
you have 50 cars or whatever, they show 32 or whatever in there.
They start coming out here, how far is it going to go? I don't
know.
MR. PALING-I think he's all right as long as he's got the use of
that land where the storage area is and behind that. There's
plenty of space, but if that would ever be lost to them, then
that's when there would be a problem.
MR. BREWER-Yes, but, Bob, we're doing a specific site, aren't we?
We're not doing the whole seven acres for this one use. He's got
other uses on the land. That's what my point is. He said 50 cars
maximum. I don't think that's unreasonable, 50 cars with whatever
customers come there.
MR. PALING-Okay. It doesn't seem unreasonable.
MR. FISHER-Maybe 51 occasionally, but I don't see much more than
that going on.
MR. PALING-All right. Tim, I guess I'm not reading you. Are you
reading in favor of?
MR. BREWER-I'm in favor of a 50 car maximum.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. RUEL-As a condition of the motion?
MR. PALING-Yes. That's reasonable.
MR. RUEL-Plus the dealers that would be there for the sale.
MR. FISHER-Now if this should ever take off a lot better than we're
anticipating, do we have to come back in front of you to get this
adjusted.
MR. PALING-Yes, sir.
MR. BREWER-For a modification.
MR. PALING-If you go over that kind of a limit of cars there, which
we hope you do, but then you'll have to come back in with a new
proposition.
MR. FISHER-That's fine.
MR. STARK-Would that be just a modification if they came in?
MR. SCHACHNER-If you approve this site plan, it would be a
modification of the site plan, a request for modification of the
previously issued site plan approval.
MR. RUEL-If they come in again.
MR. BREWER-Yes. So you want to insert that in there, Roger.
MR. RUEL-I'll start over again.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 9-97 TRI-COUNTY AUTO AUCTION,
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Craig MacEwan:
As written in the resolution, with the condition that there be a
maximum of SO cars per sale, not including any other cars.
Whereas, the Town Planning Board is
No. 9-97 TRI-COUNTY AUTO AUCTION -
building, no physical changes.
Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
in receipt of Site Plan
New Occupant. Existing
Former occupancy was
Whereas, the above mentioned application, dated 2/26/97,
consists of the following:
1. Application
2. Map 91-012
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following
documentation:
1. Staff Notes
2. Beautification Committee resolution dated 3/10/97.
3. Warren Co. Planning Board resolution dated 3/12/97.
Whereas, a public hearing was held on 3/18/97 concerning the
above project; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements
of Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury
( Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury (Zoning); and
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act have been considered; and
Therefore, Let It Be Resolved, as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board, after considering the above,
hereby move to approve Site Plan No. 9-97 TRI-COUNTY AUTO
AUCTION.
2 . The applicant shall present two copies of the above
referenced site plan to the Zoning Administrator for his
signature.
3. The Zoning Administrator is hereby authorized to sign the
above referenced plan.
4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this
resolution.
5. The conditions shall be noted on the map.
6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process.
Duly adopted this 18th day of March, 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mr. Ruel,
Mr. Paling
NOES: Mrs. LaBombard
MRS. LABOMBARD-That was for the motion to limit the thing to 50
cars. No, I'm not in favor of that. I think he ought to be able
to put as many there as he wants, and he's not going to be able to
put as many, he can only put so many anyhow, that will fit, and I
don't think we should have to curtail his business, and play God
about it.
MR. PALING-I don't think we're curtailing anything.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, I do. Okay. I voted no.
MR. PALING-All right. Okay, gentlemen, thank you.
MR. BREWER-That's why there's seven of us, Cathy.
SITE PLAN NO. 10-97 TYPE II TOP OF THE WORLD GOLF RESORT, INC.
OWNER: TOP OF THE WORLD VENTURES ZONE: PUD LOCATION: OFF
LOCKHART MOUNTAIN RD. PROPOSED MODIFICATION OF SITE PLAN 36-86 AND
3-87 TO CREATE A SEPARATE LOT APPROXIMATELY 71 ACRES IN SIZE FOR
THE GOLF RESORT SO THAT IT CAN BE OWNED AND OPERATED AS A SEPARATE
ENTITY WITHIN THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, WHICH COVERS A TOTAL OF
APPROXIMATELY 1300 ACRES. ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY TAX MAP NOS. 24-
1-5.2, 5.3, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3/24-2-47.1 (PORTION) LOT SIZE: 1300
ACRES SECTION: 179-5
MR. PALING-Okay, George, I think we should hear from you first on
this one.
MR. HILTON-Yes. Staff was presented with an application, before
the deadline to appear this month, which indicated that the
applicant, Top of the World Ventures, was seeking a slight
modification of their PUD by splitting off the golf course and
subdividing it into a separate parcel. That is normally done with
a site plan review in PUD' s. We issued Staff notes for this
evening based on what we felt was a simple modification, just a
subdivision. Since that time, we have, and up through and
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
including today, we have received information which has been to the
contrary. This information has included the applicant's desire to
renovate an existing building into an eight unit motel. This, in
our opinion, was something that wasn't represented on the
application that was filed earlier this month. In light of all
this information and in light of the fact that you have attached in
your packets letters concerning this, one of which is from the
Adirondack Park Agency, which essentially states that they will
require a permit, and that at this time the application is under
review. It seems that the application that the Adirondack Park
Agency is reviewing does include a proposal to renovate a building
and use it as an eight unit motel. However, as I said, the initial
application that we have, it was represented to us as only being an
application to subdivide property. In our opinion, however, if it
is, in fact, what the applicant is doing is, you know, seeking PUD
modification as well as rehabilitating the structure, we have no
comment on that application at this time and have not had adequate
time to review it. It is our opinion that the information makes it
a different application. We would have no comment and would
suggest that it requires further review by Planning Staff and the
appropriate boards within the Town of Queensbury.
MR. RUEL-I thought the Planned Unit Development, PUD, was under the
jurisdiction of the Town Board, not the Planning Board?
MR. HILTON-It certainly is, but when you have a subdivision of
property, as was proposed to us, they are reviewed per our
Ordinance as a site plan review, and that review comes under the
Planning Board.
MR. RUEL-Except that some of the conditions that were placed on
them by the Town Board, such as demolishing the motel, never
happened, and it was supposed to be done back in '88, '89, and now
they're talking about the same motel, which is still there, and
they want to expand it or refurbish it?
MR. HILTON-Well, that's the information we're beginning to receive
now, which wasn't available to us at first, and you're absolutely
right. A change of that magnitude, in our opinion, would require
further review, most likely by the Town Board.
MR. STARK-Mark, shouldn't we wait for the APA to rule on this
before we even look at it, or what?
MR. SCHACHNER-I'm seeing all this for the first time tonight, as
far as it relates to this particular application, but I think, just
reading the Staff memo, it makes sense, as does your comment,
George. I think we need to get more information from, not so much,
let me clarify who the "we" is. As I understand what Staff is
telling us, first, before this Board has jurisdiction over the,
what I'll call the subdivision aspect. First the Town Board will
have to look at this and decide what, if anything, to do relative
to the proposal to re-use or utilize this other commercial
building. So I think that, as ~ understand it, Staff is simply
recommending that the Planning Board doesn't have anvthinq before
it right now that's complete for consideration, and that this has
to go to the Town Board for them to consider the amendments to the
PUD. Part of that, George, would involve listening to what the APA
has to say. So that's fine.
MR. PALING-Yes. I think there are four items in there that are up
for question. It's not just the motel. It's the clubhouse being
demolished, and a new sports facility going up, and then the
mountain store was to be demolished, but it's being relocated, and
the chalet, which was vacant, was to be, they've changed that, then
you've got the motel. So you've got four items in there that we
differ with, and there's nothing we can do until those are
resolved.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. RUEL-If and when we get all the information, necessary
information, will we be in a position to make a recommendation to
the Town Board or not? Or does it go directly to the Town Board?
MR. HILTON-Modifications to the PUD are normal held just through
Town Board.
MR. RUEL-So, we would, what, table this this evening?
MR. PALING-No.
this?
Is there any need to open the public hearing on
MR. HILTON-Well, that's entirely up to you.
MR. MACEWAN-I would be in favor of just not taking any action at
all.
MR. PALING-We can't do anything with what's in front of us.
MR. MACEWAN-There's no point in opening up a public hearing to make
comment on something we aren't fully informed on.
MR. BREWER-It's not only
different issues. The Town
to do whatever they can do
with the subdivision.
that, Craig, we're looking at two
Board has to take action to allow them
in the PUD before we can do anything
MR. PALING-We don't know what the final form of this thing is going
to be, and I don't think we should have any comme~t at this point,
but I think that's the consensus. Now what do we do, vote to just,
we're not tabling it.
MR. BREWER-No.
action.
We're not doing anything.
We're not taking any
MR. PALING-We're just taking no action.
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes. No action's fine. I think what Staff is saying
is you don't have a complete application before you.
MR. HILTON-That's our opinion, yes.
MR. SCHACHNER-Okay. So if you want to affirm that with a vote
saying, no action because application not complete you can do that
if you want.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. BREWER-Not necessarily that it's not complete, Mark, that it's
not in the right place.
MR. SCHACHNER-I would say that it's not yet right for Planning
Board review. I don't really care how that's word it.
MR. PALING-All right. Based upon the fact that the applicant's
application is incomplete, that is not complete enough for the
Planning Board to review it, we're not going to hear it tonight,
and won't until we have a complete application submitted. Do I
just get a consensus on that?
MR. BREWER-Second.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. STARK-I agree.
MR. MACEWAN-Sounds good.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. That's it as far as Top of the World
is concerned.
SITE PLAN NO. 11-97 RICHARD P. SCHERMERHORN, JR. OWNER: SAME
ZONE: MR-5 LOCATION: HUNTER BROOK ROAD AT BLIND ROCK ROAD
CONSTRUCT 8 UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING WITH ASSOCIATED PARKING AND
SITEWORK. ALL LAND USES IN MR ZONES ARE SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND
APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. TAX MAP NO. 48-3-34.1 LOT SIZE:
.96 ACRES SECTION: 179-18
RICHARD SCHERMERHORN, JR., PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 11-97, Richard P. Schermerhorn,
Jr., Meeting Date: March 18, 1997 "The applicant is proposing to
construct 8 townhouse units on a .96 acre piece of property located
on Hunter Brook Lane. The 8 proposed units meet the density
requirements of the MR-5 zone. The applicant proposes 18 parking
spaces which conforms to the parking requirements listed in the
Zoning Ordinance. The site plan conforms to the setback and
permeability requirements of the MR-5 zone. The applicant is
proposing to plant four groups of white pines on the southern
property line along Blind Rock Road. The Planning Board may wish
to stipulate that these white pines be replaced with Austrian
Pines. The planting of Austrian Pines would match the landscaping
along Blind Rock Road contained on the site plan for the Prudential
property to the east. The proposed landscape plan should be
updated so that plantings in and around the parking lot conform to
the size requirements listed in Section 179-66, b, 3, c of the
Zoning Ordinance. All comments from the Town Engineering
consultant should be addressed prior to Planning Board action on
this site plan."
MR. HILTON-And in the letter dated March 14th, Rist-Frost
Associates stated that, "We have reviewed the documents submitted
with the above referenced application and the previous subdivision,
and have no comments." And in addition to this, I believe the
applicant is prepared to discuss with you this evening the
dedication of 15 acres of property in lieu of recreation fees,
which we're going to, as I said, bring up with you and begin the
discussion this evening.
MR. STARK-Do you want to do that now, or at the end of the meeting?
That doesn't have anything to do with the application.
MR. HILTON-Well, it's something that evolved today, and that's
entirely up to you. If you'd like to handle it now, with this
application, that may be better.
MR. STARK-Lets do the application now and talk about that later.
Okay. There was no engineering comments to be addressed. Are
there any questions?
MR. MACEWAN-I've just got one. What's Staff's significance of
wanting to have these trees the same as what's at the prudential?
MR. HILTON-Aesthetics, just maybe maintain a continuance of the
same vegetation. It's just an opinion.
MR. MACEWAN-Wouldn't it make more sense to match what he's got in
the rest of the development?
MR. HILTON-We're trying to match what is along that road, Blind
Rock Road already with the prudential building, seeing as that the
trees that we're mentioning are also going to be along Blind Rock.
MR. STARK-Could you have a combination of each?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. HILTON-Well, you know, that's entirely up to you. It's just a
suggestion.
MR. RUEL-Are they shown on the landscape plan, the ones that you're
talking about?
MR. HILTON-The ones that I'm talking about replacing, or having the
new species are shown on another site plan for the Prudential
property.
MR. MACEWAN-How many trees on this parcel are you referring to?
Which ones are you referring to, replacing the White Pines you
said?
MR. HILTON-Yes, with Austrian Pines.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Rich Schermerhorn for the record. Does everybody
know what an Austrian Pine looks like?
MR. RUEL-No.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Aesthetically, they're, to be honest with you, I
discussed it with my wife before we came over here, and it's not a
matter of cost. They cost about the same price. They're
unaesthetically, unattractive. I prefer to keep the White Pines if
we could, truthfully. That's what I have for the rest of the
building so far.
MR. STARK-It works for me.
MR. BREWER-I mean, what's the difference in the Austrian or the
White Pine?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-It's more of a scrub pine type of look. As a
matter of fact, you can see them right at the Prudential building.
I mean, it's just my personal preference. I don't care for the
look of them, and I was just hoping to keep the Eastern White
Pines, because they do get bushy. They're soft looking, the
Eastern White Pines.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The Austrian are those scrubby things.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Yes. They look like a scrub pine.
MR. RUEL-What do you think of that, George?
MR. HILTON-It's the Planning Board's call.
MR. RUEL-It was your recommendation, wasn't it?
MR. HILTON-I said that the Planning Board may wish to stipulate it.
MR. RUEL-I see.
MR. STARK-Okay. Let me open the public hearing. Does anybody have
any comments for or against this project for Rich Schermerhorn
tonight?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
KATHY SONNABEND
MRS. SONNABEND-My name is Kathy Sonnabend, and I live on Cedar
Court. So I really just am curious about the development and how
that mayor may not effect the drainage at the west end. My
concerns relate to the drainage situation on the west end, the
trees. That's basically it.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. STARK-Drainage where?
MRS. SONNABEND-In our development, we had to take down a lot of
trees in order to prevent a lot of silt from going into the pond
that's off of Blind Rock Road. So a lot of the woods are gone now
that had been there, and I'm not sure how his development is going
to effect, if there's going to be more of a drainage problem, if he
has any part of that.
MR. STARK-That's your question, drainage into the pond from Blind
Rock Road?
MRS. SONNABEND- Yes, whether more trees are going to have to go
down, if any of them will be replaced.
MR. STARK-Rich, are you going to take any more trees down? You
know where the bank goes up over there?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Yes. As you can see, we're taking that hill out
gradually, and unfortunately the trees do have to go. We're doing
everything to protect the pond. DEC has been up there several
times, and I have silt fences. I do not have to clear as much as
Cedar Court did in the back. So, I mean, as far as the concerns
with the drainage issues, that's per site plan review, and we do
that, and we've already done that on the previous two buildings,
which I think are the most critical ones, which I already have up
now.
MR. STARK-You'd have to put haybales back there or anything?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Yes, silt fences. As a matter of fact, I think
we've got two silt fences up there now, and that was not a
recommendation from DEC at the time, because I'm still quite a ways
away, but I put them up anyway, just so we wouldn't have any
problems. That's all.
MR. STARK-Would you have any silt go into that pond at all, in any
of the construction?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-I have not had any silt. There's been several
complaints of silt, and unfortunately the Michaels Group was fined,
or I don't want to say the Michaels Group. The owners of Cedar
Court that sold Cedar Court to the Michaels Group, they were fined.
They had a retention pond give away from their project and it
leached into, which happens to be my pond. So it leached into my
pond, and it wasn't from me, it was determined, and at this point
I've been there, well, two years since I bought it, and there's
been nothing off my property.
MR. STARK-Does that answer your question?
MRS. SONNABEND-Mostly. I'm just wondering if any more of the trees
have to go down that run between your property and Cedar Court's
property.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-No. That's all done. As you can see the building
I've got framed up right now, that's it. I split the cost of the
fence with Michaels Group, the trees that are on the line now,
that's it, we don't have to take any more. As a matter of fact,
that is our property line, and we've already cleared close to it.
MR. STARK-Anything else?
MRS. SONNABEND-I wish there were more trees.
MR. STARK-Take that up with him now. Do you have any more plans to
put the trees back there at all or anything?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Well, the buildings are quite large, and when I
put the next one in, you'll see that it fills the site up pretty
much. There's not a lot. We don' t have plans to put more in
there, because there are still quite a bit in there. I just will
address that, I guess, at the next site plan.
MR. BREWER-How many more are you going to put in there after these,
Rich?
MR. SCHERMERHORN - I've got room for five more eight -plexes . So
that's 40 more units.
MR. BREWER-Are there going to be any senior housing units?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-The first building was advertised as an adult
building, and I do have, currently, six, they don't like to be
called seniors, but I've got adults, elderly adults that are
retired, and I've got six out of the eight in there.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Rich, do you have plans to put one opposite this
proposed building on the west side of Hunter Brook?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-On the west side, yes, that's where the hill is
gradually being removed.
MRS. LABOMBARD-See, I thought that was the next one that was going
in. It was easier to put this one in first.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right. I'm picking all the easy sites, first,
before we get on the ones by the pond.
MR. BREWER-So you're going to have a total of how many units when
you get all done?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Well, depending how I space them, there could be
100, but right now I've got it proposed as, well, close to that, 72
to 80, depending on how I put them out.
MR. BREWER-So 80 to 100.
MRS. LABOMBARD-That's nine buildings.
MR. STARK-Okay. Do you have anything else?
MR. BREWER-Well, I guess, are we going to wait until after to talk
about the recreation or are we going to do it now?
MR. STARK-No. That doesn't have anything to do with this project.
MR. HILTON-If I can just interrupt here, I think it may have
something to do with this, in that the applicant is seeking to
dedicate this land in lieu of recreation fees for this and future
development within this subdivision. So you may want to take that
up at this time as well. If you look at the letter that's attached
in your file, dated today, March 18th, the applicant had some
discussion today with Town Staff, and he's looking for the Board to
give consideration to accepting 15 acres in lieu of recreation fees
for future development in the Hunter Brook Lane apartment project.
MR. STARK-What's that got to do with this project?
MR. HILTON-This is a phase in the Hunter Brook apartment project
which the applicant will be seeking, possibly, some (lost word) in
lieu of recreation fee.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Because these are multi families, I have to pay
$500 per unit cost, and to date I've paid $16,000 in recreation
fees, and everybody says, gee, Rich, what are you doing for
- 17 -
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
recreation? Are you going to put a pool in, tennis courts? I'd
love to, but I'm looking at about $40,000 in rec fees before I'm
done, and rec fees cannot, that has to go for, it has to be
something for the general public. So what I'm trying to do, like
other developers have done, is if I could give out, where it says
14.81 acres, in lieu of maybe the balance of what I've got left.
It may be a fair solution for everybody, because Michaels Group, I
think they're trying to buy the land next to Cedar Court now, in
Sue Nolan's, which is beside my, right beside my 14.81 acres there.
So the Town may want it, because we may need some recreation there.
MR. STARK-What did the Recreation Committee say when you talked to
Harry?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-There's a letter that you have, that just said, as
per discussion with Jim Martin and Harry Hansen today, I would like
to have the Board's consideration accepting approximately 15 acres
in lieu of the rec fees. They said type a letter up. I did it
this morning, and submit it to you for recommendation. They think
that it would be something, they don't know how the Board's going
to feel, but they think it would be something to look into, only
because Michaels Group is possibly considering buying the other
land next to Cedar Court.
MR. STARK-Maybe, I'm not familiar with where the land to be
dedicated is, okay. So why don't we hold off on that until next
week, and this week here we can go out and look at it to find out
exactly where the 15 acres of land is, and then we can take it up
next week. Is that okay with you, Mark, can we do that?
MR. SCHACHNER-Yes, you can do that. I mean, as far as the proposed
offer of dedicate of recreation land, I mean, the Town Board and
the Town Recreation Commission ultimately get involved in that.
It's a process, and as I understand it, this letter is the first
request to start that process rolling.
MR. STARK-Well, I would like to go out and see exactly where it is.
Tim, is that okay with you?
MR. BREWER-That's fine. I just wanted a couple of comments
answered. Where exactly is it, Rich? Is it beyond the pond?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-No. It's part of the pond, but that big square
that's outlined, it's this 14.81 acres, that is the parcel that
could be donated, you know, almost 15 acres.
MR. BREWER-That's fine. I agree with what you're saying, George,
but if the Michaels Group bought the property behind it.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-They're buying the one next to it, or trying to
buy the one next to it. It's not for sure.
MR. BREWER-That's fine.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-It's RR-3 Acres, which still there's some density
there. I could pullout almost five units out of that, and they
could pullout, well, out of 30 acres, they could pullout six
units next door, but I think because of some of the sloping hills,
they may use the density, and it may just be a good area, it came
recommended to me, it might be a good spot to do in lieu of the rec
fees, because I do have plans of putting a pool, or tennis court or
something in, but if I've got to put out $40,000 in rec fees, when
I already paid $50,000 last year for Sherman Pines and Meadowbrook
Road.
MR. BREWER-You're getting it back. You're not giving that out of
your pocket, out of the kindness of your heart.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Well, I could give more to my, I don't know. I
disapprove of the Hudson River Park, but.
MR. BREWER-I do, too.
MR. STARK-Okay. Any more comment from the public?
BOB PALING
MR. PALING-Bob Paling, on the other side of the mic. I just want
to get something clarified. We had a new number drift out here, I
believe it's new, of nearly 100, and my understanding was this was
an eight building, with eight units each for 64, and, Rich, I think
YOU said, maybe 100. Could we get that clarified?
MR. STARK-Okay. Rich?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Well, it's zoned MR-5, and MR-5 is five thousand
square feet per, well, it's 5,000 square feet per dwelling unit.
I have the square footage to do that. The thing is, the project,
I don't think, is going to be any larger than I proposed it. I'm
just proposing that I might do some efficiency units or one bedroom
unit, which are much smaller, that will increase the amount of
units, but it's not going to make the project look larger, if you
can understand what I'm trying to say.
MRS. LABOMBARD-You'll still have the same number of buildings?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-The same number of buildings, but those buildings,
instead of having an eight plex, it has a bunch of two bedrooms in
it. It could have 60 one bedrooms in it. That's the difference.
So the size of the buildings may not increase, but I don't know if
I can fit that with the septic requirements. I don't want to
mislead anybody and tell them that there's only going to be 40
there.
MR. PALING-Was this not approved for a specific number of units?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes, it was.
MR. BREWER-That's what I'm looking for.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-It wasn't approved for any specific units. It was
just re-zoned. It's MR-5. I didn't change the zone. It's zoned
for multi families. It's just site plan review, per project.
MR. BREWER-Yes. I think when we did it, Bob, we just did it as
conceptual, and then every unit he comes in, we do as a site plan,
right?
MR. HILTON-Yes. There's been a subdivision application on this
property, I believe, and he's filed that, and then with each lot he
comes in with a site plan, with each different phase.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Bob, I may end up with just 64 units. It's just,
if I have a request for a bunch of one bedrooms, right now, the two
bedrooms are going well, but I mean, if people want one bedrooms.
The building size won't increase, but the number, I think it's the
number of units that's scaring everybody, but sure, it means
another car and that type of thing, but I can't have it if it won't
fit. So the site's only going to support so much anyway. That's
why I think we're coming in for site plan per project, because we
have more control this way, I think.
MR. STARK-Okay. I'll close the public hearing now.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. WEST-We were just reviewing the previous minutes.
MR. STARK-From 7/25?
MR. WEST- Yes, Page 58, and Mr. Schermerhorn's comment,
specifically, Jim Obermayer asked a question, how many units do you
plan on having there, and Mr. Schermerhorn replied, well, he'll
handle a lot of units, but based on two bedroom apartments, the
most that the soils will handle is 64 adequately. That's doing
Haanen Engineering calculating everything.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-So what did ~ say, 70 to 100? But if I make them
one bedrooms, the soils still may handle one bedrooms. That's the
difference. I'm not saying I'm doing that. I think we're all
jumping the gun here.
MR. BREWER-Well, I think we're just trying to get a feel for what
you're going to do.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-~ don't know what I'm going to do.
MR. RUEL-He has to come back for every application.
MR. STARK-Yes, he's going to have to come in for each one.
MR. RUEL-So what?
MR. STARK-So he goes to 64, and he wants to come in for another
one.
MR. RUEL-In this particular application, it's for eight units. He
may come in later and he'll want 12 units.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Right. Well, that particular site, Lot Six, all
that will come in is eight. So I won't be back.
MR. HILTON-Well, if I can just interject here, without the previous
SEQRA review for the subdivision, or any approvals and any
conditions attached to those approvals, I can't comment on what
you're reading out of those minutes. That's something that we'll
have to go back and take a look at, as far as the number of units
that mayor may not be allowed at this location.
MR. BREWER-That was the very first time we ever discussed this, at
a sketch type meeting.
MR. STARK-If there's no objection from the Board, we'll go right to
the SEQRA. You need a SEQRA for this, right?
MR. HILTON-With this, it's an Unlisted, yes. Short Form.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 11-97, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Planning
RICHARD P. SCHERMERHORN, JR., and
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
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2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 18th day of March, 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer,
Mr. MacEwan
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling
MR. STARK-Okay. A motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 11-97 RICHARD SCHERMERHORN, INC.,
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Catherine LaBombard:
Whereas, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of Site Plan
No. 11-97 RICHARD SCHERMERHORN to construct an 8 unit
apartment building with associated parking and sitework; and
Whereas, the above mentioned application, dated 2/26/97,
consists of the following:
1. Application
2. Map SP 1, SP 2, SP 3 dated 2/25/97
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following
documentation:
1. Staff Notes
2. Rist Frost comments dated 3/14/97
Whereas, a public hearing was held on 3/18/97 concerning the
above project; and
Whereas, the Planning Board had determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements
of Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury
( Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury (Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
Queensbury (Zoning); and
Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act have been considered; and
Therefore, Let It Be Resolved, as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board, after considering the above,
hereby move to approve Site Plan No. 11-97 RICHARD
SCHERMERHORN.
2 . The applicant shall present two copies of the above
referenced site plan to the Zoning Administrator for his
signature.
3. The Zoning Administrator is hereby authorized to sign the
above referenced plan.
4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this
resolution.
5. The conditions shall be noted on the map.
6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process.
Duly adopted this 18th day of March 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan,
Mr. Stark
NOES: NOES
ABSENT: Mr. Paling
MR. MACEWAN-No conditions to that? Did we decide to do anything
with the trees?
MR. STARK-The trees (lost words) like he's got on the other ones.
MR. MACEWAN-Very good.
MR. STARK-Now, George, on the land, we're going to postpone it
until next week, so we all have a chance to go out and look at it,
and then could you, do you plan on going to a Recreation meeting,
to see what their recommendation is?
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Well, I haven't done this before. I spoke to Jim
and Harry Hansen this morning. They said to submit the letter
tonight, and you guys will lead me from here. So I don't know what
to do.
MR. STARK-We'll put this on first for next week, because it'll be
quick, and then that'll give us all a chance to go out this week to
look at it, because none of us really are familiar, we haven't
looked at this.
MR. SCHERMERHORN-Okay. It's going to be hard to see because
there's two feet of snow out there.
MR. STARK-Okay. Thank you.
SITE PLAN NO. 14-97 TYPE II JOSEPH LEUCI OWNER: GUIDO
PASSARELLI ZONE: HC-1A LOCATION: ROUTE 9 AND ROUND POND ROAD
PROPOSAL IS FOR AUTOMOBILE SALES. ALL LAND USES IN HC ZONES ARE
SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD.
BEAUTIFICATION COMM.: 3/10/97 WARREN CO. PLANNING: 3/12/97 TAX
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MAP NO. 67-2-1.3 LOT SIZE: 5.59 ACRES SECTION: 179-23
MATT STEVES, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT; JOE LEUCI, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Site Plan No. 14-97, Joseph Leuci, Meeting Date:
March 18, 1997 "The applicant is seeking site plan approval to
allow a used car sales business at the southeast corner of Route 9
and Round Pond Road. The property, zoned HC-1A, allows this type
of use with a site plan review. The applicant proposes to place a
10 x 30 ft. sales office and 55 parking spaces on this property.
The site plan indicates that the first 60 feet of the entry drive
will be paved, while the parking lot will be a gravel lot. The
applicant should indicate what removal and revegetation plans, if
any, exist for this property. Plans for the tree lining of Route
9 should specifically be discussed. The site plan appears to
indicate that only the row of evergreen trees along Route 9 will
remain. Staff would recommend that all trees along Route 9 remain
except for that area to be used as a driveway. Comment on
stormwater retention and runoff will be provided by the Town's
Engineering Consultant. All comments from the Town Engineering
Consultant should be addressed prior to Planning Board action on
this site plan."
MR. HILTON-And in a letter dated March 17, 1997, from Rist-Frost,
it stated that "We have reviewed Nace Engineer's letter of March
16th, in response to our comment letter of March 14th. The
responses satisfactorily address our comments. We recommend that
plan approval, if granted, be conditioned upon an inspection by the
Planning Department after snow melt, to assess the need for erosion
protection on all previously disturbed surfaces." And we also have
a resolution from the Beautification Committee, which there was a
motion to recommend approval. There are some recommendations and
some discussions, which I have in a plan that the applicant has
handed to me. They've incorporated the Beautification Committee's
comments into this plan. They've also incorporated our concerns
about the trees along Route 9 into the landscaping plan, and we are
satisfied with all the landscaping comments.
MR. PALING-Are we going to get to see that?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-All right, and the other, George, the County?
MR. HILTON-We have Warren County Planning Board, which the
recommendation was to return, the comment "No Action could be taken
since a majority decision could not be achieved."
MR. PALING-Couldn't have a vote. Okay. Just one point of
clarification before we proceed. When you're talking along Route
9, we're talking State road, State property. Are you referring the
applicant to care for things on State property?
MR. HILTON-My comments concerning the landscaping, I'm talking
about what exists there right now, which are on the applicant's
property, and we were concerned, at least my concern, was that
there may be some removal of vegetation which exists out there
today. The applicant, as I said, has indicated that they will just
remove diseased vegetation and replace it along that stretch, which
is on their property.
MR. PALING-Well, why I make that comment is that last year we went
through quite a thing to get it, you know, planted the way we want
it and that kind of thing, and then it was let go. It was never
maintained, and the State was supposedly responsible, but they
claimed weather and other reasons, and I'd like to get into that
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
tonight, to see what the applicant, okay, you're going to cover
that.
MR. RUEL-Well, we asked that trees be planted along there, right?
MR. PALING-No, we didn't ask for any maintenance.
MR. RUEL-And the trees are there, right?
MR. PALING-The trees are there. What we asked for is there, no
question.
MR. BREWER-We asked them to guarantee the trees for two years, if
my memory serves me in that site plan.
MR. PALING-All right. Lets have the applicant comment on that.
George, you're okay, then?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. PALING-All right. Would you identify yourselves and maybe
summarize what your proposal is. We can take it from there.
MR. LEUCI-Yes. My name is Joe Leuci, and it's just more or less of
what it says, you know, I'm trying to open a used car business on
that property. As far as what you're saying, maintaining and
keeping up with the trees, whatever's there, you know, it's only to
my benefit to keep the place looking pretty, that I certainly will,
you know, keeping it maintained, looking nice. (lost word) the
whole proposal here, as far as vegetation.
MR. RUEL-These are used cars, right?
MR. LEUCI-Yes.
MR. STARK-Would you be removing the car sales from Mt. Royal, and
would you still sell them there?
MR. LEUCI-No. I would still sell them there, also.
MR. STARK-So you'd have two lots?
MR. LEUCI-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Could someone refresh my memory? When we approved the
site plan for the dental office, was that driveway going to be used
for access to both parcels?
MR. PALING-No way.
MR. BREWER-No. Remember the big debate on that, Craig?
MR. PALING-They've got to put separate access in. No. This is a
new print, here.
MRS. LABOMBARD-That looks like there's a lot more trees than there
really are. Believe me, there are not that many trees there.
MR. PALING-Okay. Would you care to run us through this, then?
MR. STEVES-Yes, certainly. My name is Matt Steves, with Van Dusen
and Steves. The plan you're looking at now is the landscape plan
that was drawn up by Jim Miller, Miller Associates, as per the
request of the applicant. The trees along the front that you were
concerned with, from previous approvals, if you look at the note
that we will replace any dead or dying trees and maintain the ones
that are there. They are in good health, but replace any ones that
are not. Along the corridor of Route 9, that row of trees you see
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that are existing.
MR. PALING-I don't mean to nail you with something that's not your
responsibility, but do you intend to mow that grass?
MR. STEVES-I'll get into that, okay. The area I'm talking about is
this row of trees here along Route 9, and it says existing tree
row, remove dead trees and replace, and that's what we intend to
do. There is an existing bank of woods all the way around to the
north of the east side of the property. We don't intend to touch
those at all. The existing disturbed area, that comes down to the
corner of Route 9 and Round Pond Road is, will area to be received,
topsoiled and seeded, and that'll be some kind of a ground cover,
like a crown vetch that requires low maintenance, as far as mowing
is concerned. It really doesn't get that high, but yet it will
stabilize the slope, and we are also, we have on the original site
plan you'll look at, we were going to create a berm, which would be
on basically the northwest side of the parking lot that is to
divert the run off, if any, from the parking lot around to the
existing ditch line, and then that berm will be raised up to a
height of 18 inches, as requested by the Beautification Committee,
and that will be fully landscaped. We will also landscape the
entrance way here just where you turn in to go both directions in
the parking lot, as well as landscaping in front of the sales
office. An area between the parking lot and the row of existing
trees and the row of existing trees and the State right-of-way will
also be some kind of a ground cover that will stabilize the slopes
but will be a low maintenance type of ground cover, as well as the
area that was disturbed in the back.
MR. PALING-The north side of your topsoil and seed doesn't seem to
be completely defined.
MR. BREWER-It's probably right to the row of the trees.
MR. STEVES-Yes, we'll continue it right on across. The existing
ditch is here now. That wasn't really disturbed much, but we will
continue it across right over to the existing tree line.
MR. PALING-Just continue that dotted line right down?
MR. STEVES-Yes, and we'd bring it right perpendicular right back to
the tree line. Instead of extending it this way, it comes
perpendicular to the tree line.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. STEVES-And as far as the road side ditch, again, if you have
any questions on that, on the original site plan, you will see that
we are proposing to put in a ten foot wide stone lined trench.
That'll be also topsoiled and seeded. It will clean up what is
there now. The existing drYWells that were put in place will be
cleaned up, and it has to be inspected by our engineer, Tom Nace,
before he will approve it, and also by your Staff, and there'll be
a new culvert in place. This DOT access point has been approved by
DOT. We will still review the site plan with them after approval
by your Board, and establish this ditch, basically re-establish the
ditch, in a proper manner with stabilization material, with filter
fabric, all the way around, and then on the corner here, where
you'd be most concerned with here on the ditch, on the corner of
it, will be a riprap swale, to avoid any kind of erosion, and then
back into a stoned grass swale, back into the existing catch
basins. When it first started off, this was going to be a closed
system, if you will remember, the pipe that comes across now, is
going to come into a series of perforated pipe and then into these
drYWells, and that wasn't really favorable by DOT because part of
that system would have been within DOT right-of-way, and they said,
we are not going to accept any maintenance, so therefore the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
drYWells were put in, but the ditch was put in, but not in the
proper manner, and we are proposing to put it in the way it should
be.
MR. PALING-And you're going to mow it?
MR. STEVES-It's a type of vegetation that will be put in that will
not require maintenance in the spring.
MR. BREWER-Matt, is the office, is it going to be a trailer?
MR. STEVES-I'll have to let Joe answer that.
MR. RUEL-There will be no vegetation in this corner, right, for
safety reasons, Round Pond Road and Route 9 in the corner?
MR. STEVES-It will be topsoiled and seeded, but we will not have
any kind of vegetation, because that's DOT roadway.
MR. RUEL-Right. So that the motorists can actually see down Route
9 .
MR. STEVES-That's correct.
MR. RUEL-And the sign, you'll have a sign, where, on the building?
MR. LEUCI-Yes. We're going to have a sign on the building right
now.
MR. RUEL-I'm just asking. I don't think it's part of this.
MR. STARK-Is there going to be a sign on Route 9 also?
MR. LEUCI-I'm not sure yet.
MR. STEVES-Not with this application.
MR. LEUCI-Yes.
MR. RUEL-The trees parallel to Route 9 are about how far apart?
MR. STEVES-They average about six feet, I believe, separation.
It's kind of hard to tell with some of the ones, the way they're
leaning, but they were planted, to the best of my knowledge, at
about a six foot separation.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. RUEL-Would the effect your sales of your area, and the fact
that there's trees lined up along Route 9?
MR. STEVES-I don't believe so, because you are up just a little
high enough and they're not a substantial height at this point.
MR. RUEL-So the parking area is elevated beyond the road, above
this?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. RUEL-About, what, 20 feet, 15? I know that the dental building
is way up.
MR. STEVES-About six to eight feet.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I have a question as far as lighting. Will you have
lights?
MR. STEVES-I believe, Joe might have to speak to that, but it's a
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
day time operation. He'll have no on site lighting other than the
building itself.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. In other words, you won't have it lit up at
night for the people to go by and see it?
MR. LEUCI-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And no lights on the entrance way? Because there
are some nice lampposts on the dentist's office, where the
dentist's office is.
MR. LÈUCI-No. Right now I'm just going to have lights throughout
the office and my sign, but like you said, it's a day time
operation. There'll be no need for night lights.
MRS. LABOMBARD-So then you'll be closing like at eight o'clock in
the evening in the summer time?
MR. LEUCI-Probably not even, more like six, six thirty.
MR. RUEL-And the whole area is gravel, right, except for the
entrance?
MR. LEUCI-Yes.
MR. STARK- I'd rather wait for any comments until the public
hearing.
MR. BREWER-The building, is it going to be a trailer or is it going
to be a permanent building?
MR. LEUCI-It's going to be an office trailer, but, you know, well
skirted underneath so it looks more like an office building.
MR. MACEWAN-Back when this parcel was clear cut, there were some
discussions as to whether it was in violation of the Subdivision
Reg's for clear cutting. Whatever became of that discussion? Was
it, was it not?
MR. HILTON-I don't have any knowledge of that.
MR. PALING-It was a violation, and we allowed it to go ahead, and
I can't remember now. There was something, we got something for
it.
MR. RUEL-We asked for plantings, for one thing.
trees.
We asked for
MR. BREWER-The thing of it was, was, if it was clear cut, it
couldn't be subdivided within five years, and we waived that, with
the stipulation that he put the 200 trees in the front, or 100, I
can't remember the number, whatever the amount of trees were in the
front. So that solved that problem. It was subdivided. Remember
it came in for subdivision, and there's something in the
subdivision regulations if a lot is clear cut, it can't be
subdivided within five years.
MR. STARK-They're not subdividing this.
MR. BREWER-No, I understand. I'm just telling the history of it.
We had the authority, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, to waive
that, and we did waive it, let him subdivide it, and he built the
dentist's office.
MR. SCHACHNER-With certain conditions.
MR. BREWER-Correct.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. Lets go to the public hearing. Does
anyone care to speak on this matter, pro or con, for the Joseph
Leuci application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
DAVE MENTER
MR. MENTER-My name is Dave Menter. I'm an adjacent property owner,
and I'd like just to look at the plan, because I haven't seen it at
all, before I speak.
MR. PALING-Go ahead.
MR. PALING-Is there anyone else who'd like to comment, while he's
looking at the plans?
MR. HILTON-I can read a letter in, in the mean time, I have a
letter, a record of phone conversation between Jim Martin and Roger
Gebo, with the County D.P.W., regarding drainage at the corner of
Round Pond and Route 9, it says, "Mr. Gebo called to confirm that
the Planning Board will require stormwater management and erosion
controls in the approval of the proposed used car business. I
indicated the Staff's position is to regrade the slope and trench,
clean out the existing drywells, and stabilize and seed the slope
and trench. He seemed pleased with that approach." Signed Jim
Martin.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you.
MR. MENTER-Again, Dave Menter, and I own the Wakita Motel, which is
across Round Pond Road from this location. The first question I
had was, I didn't quite understand, as far as the drainage went.
It sounded like, and I may be wrong, the primary drainage was going
to be to use the existing trenches, but is that all going to be
self contained on the property?
MR. PALING-Okay. Go ahead. We'll get your questions answered.
MR. MENTER-Okay, and I guess initially what I want to do is make a
comment, that, in my view, this is extremely inappropriate for the
property, which is a function of current zoning and the failing of
the master plan and other things, and that's not the issue tonight,
but given that, I would recommend to the Board, or I would ask that
the Board, look at this in as critical a light as possible, given
the nature of this business, as well as the nature of that section
of Route 9. We have a fairly healthy and cohesive group of
businesses there that are on somewhat the same, in somewhat the
same market. We have a couple of new ones that have just come into
the area. This business does not lend itself well to that. Given
that, again, I would just ask you to look as critically as
possible, within whatever parameters you need to look at it. As
far as concrete issues, I'd say the biggest one that ~ have that
needs to be addressed is the dirt parking area, or gravel, which is
a pretty broad term. As it is, there's a lot of dust that kicks up
from that piece of property. I mean, it's a big dirt pile, you
know, and that's what we were left with with that thing, and, you
know, I don't see how you can sell used cars on a dirt pile, but I
think that there's a real likelihood of dust being kicked up, and
I'd like that to be addressed, because that is something that would
effect me quite a bit I think. The other thing would be, Robert,
I think initially you said that there was a two year guarantee on
the plantings. Someone mentioned that.
MR. PALING-I think Tim did.
MR. MENTER-Someone said that, and are we still in that time frame?
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MR. PALING-I think so.
MR. MENTER-Yes, because that was a big concession. As you'll all
recall, there were some big issues involved there.
MR. PALING-If we can't answer that tonight, we'll get it answered.
MR. MENTER-Depending on your perspective on this whole project, I
guess, I think it's clear what mine is, but, you know, those things
may be, you know, that may be an issue for you, but the concrete
issues that I have, aside from the appropriateness, would be the
dust issue, as well as the drainage, and that would be it.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?
DOUG IRISH
MR. IRISH-Hi. My name's Doug Irish, and I'm not really sure what
the zoning, does the zoning up there right now lend itself to a car
dealership?
MR. PALING-Yes, it does.
MR. RUEL-Highway Commercial.
MR. IRISH-And I guess my only concern is based on what the Town is
going to become. Tonight we sat through and listened to Tri-County
Auction come before you and I guess every Town needs a car
dealership in it. My concern is that, do we really want to have
car dealerships, gas stations and mini malls put in allover the
Town, or should we designate a particular part of the Town, which
I believe is kind of what the Comprehensive Land Use Plan was all
about, trying to determine where those types of functions should
go. I mean, it's a nice area up there, and it's really, I don't
think it lends itself to that type of business, because of the
traffic that's going to be in and out of there, especially in the
summer time, and I don't think that it really, there's plenty of
property for sale on Quaker Road, and I understand that they own
the property, and they can develop it the way they see fit, but I
really think that the Board ought to look at the type of use that's
going to be going in there, and that area I really don't think
should be taken and put into that type of situation. That's about
the only comment that I have on it.
MR. RUEL-Just to assure you, presently there's a committee on the
Comprehensive Land Use Plan, and they've been reviewing this, and
this is exactly the areas in which you're looking to place these
commercial areas, properly, not right on top of residential areas,
and they also are looking at what they call transition areas
between commercial and residential.
MR. IRISH-Are they also looking at the ~ of commercial venture
that's going, I mean, you don't want to have a restaurant next to,
you know, something that shouldn't be next to it.
MR. RUEL-Exactly.
MR. IRISH-I mean, that's my only, Quaker Road has become,
basically, an auto mall like Central Ave., and that's fine. I
mean, if you want to buy a car, then you've got your pick of where
you want to buy them.
MR. RUEL-Yes, well, see, this plan exists since, what, '88, '89,
and the Town Fathers certainly know that it needs updating, for
exactly the reason that you mentioned, the Town is changing, and
this is why the Comprehensive Land Use Plan is also going to
change.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. IRISH-I would just hate to see the Town start to spot zoning
everything to the point where you basically have a mini community
on every other block, and that really doesn't lend itself to the
cohesiveness of the Town, as far as, you know, okay, you guys want
to go buy a car, you can go to this area of Town. You can go over
here to do your shopping. You can go over here if you want to buy
a house. I mean, that would make a little more sense than letting
somebody open a bar here and a restaurant here, and, you know, that
sort of thing.
MR. RUEL-It's a large Town, 63 square miles, and right now they
have di vided up in about a dozen so called villages. That' s
exactly, it's like having 12 villages within that area. So they're
trying to plan it just that way.
MR. IRISH-Right. Okay. Thanks.
MR. PALING-Thank you. Does anyone else care to talk on this?
MR. MENTER-Dave Menter again. I just had another quick question.
Regarding the building, that's going to be a trailer, right?
MR. PALING-A trailer type it was described as, yes.
MR. MENTER-Is that going to have restrooms in it?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. MENTER-All right. That is going to be plumbed, it's going to
have on site septic?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Yes, it does. It shows it.
MR. MENTER-Okay.
MR. RUEL-But he did indicate it was that type of a trailer with a
skirt to look like a building rather than just a freewheeling
mobile home.
MR. MENTER-Thank you.
MR. PALING-Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? If not, we'll
close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. PALING-This is a Type II.
MR. STARK-George, just a question for you. When we approved the
auto sales up in Mount Royal Shopping Center, Mountainside Auto
sales it was, there was a limit to the number of cars up there, 18
or 21, I forget which one it was. Tim, do YOU know which one it
was?
MR. BREWER-I don't remember, George. I wasn't here.
MR. STARK-Okay.
over that limit.
Well, anyway, every time you go by there, they're
Okay. Is John doing anything about that or what?
MR. HILTON-To tell you the truth, I'm not sure if he is or isn't,
but I can bring it to his attention.
MR. STARK-I was just wondering.
MR. PALING-Okay. Would the applicant come back up, please.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. RUEL-What place are you talking about?
MR. STARK-Mt. Royal.
MR. PALING-Lets take these items one by one. Would you go back
over the drainage and comment about it being self contained,
please.
MR. STEVES-Certainly. As far as anybody's concerns regarding the
drainage, there will be no increased runoff from this site than
what is currently there. The proposed ditch here is, if you pick
up what is coming across from the DOT 30 inch culvert that comes
across Route 9 at the present time, will be maintained what is
there now, and also what is coming down the slope. Basically what
happens now is that about 85% of this site does grade toward this
corner. The ditch line will pick up what is there now, as well as
what's coming across from the DOT culvert. This little berm that
we're proposing up near the top, or to the northwest of our parking
lot, is only to divert one minute amount would be created by the
parking lot and diverted back into the soils on the top there,
there's a little ditch that is there now, and we'd propose that
during construction we will put in haybales and a silt fence, but
Tom Nace, the engineer, has gone through the stormwater management
and all the drainage calculation and there is no more going off
than what is currently. As a matter of fact, it'll be a lot less
toward the intersection of Route 9 and Round Pond.
MR. PALING-Okay. The next comment was about the gravel, parking on
gravel or the creation of dust.
MR. STEVES-Okay. As far as what is there now, I think you have a
lot worse condition of dust than you will have after construction.
The gravel is kind of like a blue stone type of deal that, you
know, that type of a gravel that doesn't create a lot of dust, but
allows the water to penetrate down through and to the existing
ground. The existing conditions that are there now are kind of a
sandy type condition, as you well know, and that would be a lot
worse, and then by topsoiling and seeding the other areas, would be
a major cut down on any dust.
MR. RUEL-How about the rear of the property, that dust bowl back
there?
MR. STEVES-Back in here?
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. STEVES-Well, as you can see, we have a limits of topsoil and
seed to the back now.
MR. RUEL-What do you intend to do with the back, anything?
MR. STEVES-At this time, no.
MR. RUEL-That's where you get a lot of dust.
MR. PALING-George, can't we require that back part of that lot to
be vegetated in some manner, to stop this dust?
MR. HILTON-The portion behind the gravel?
MR. PALING-Yes. The part they're not going to use.
MR. RUEL-The open area.
MR. PALING-That won't be yours, I don't think. Will it? Is that
Passarelli's responsibility?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. STEVES-Yes, it is.
MR. PALING-Then why can't we do, that's a.
MR. HILTON-If you have some concerns over dust or anything of that
nature, you could include, in your approval, some vegetation or
planting requirements.
MR. PALING-We can't, imposing it on a different party, but aren't
they required to put something there to stop dust anyway? I'm not
talking now this applicant. I'm talking the Passarelli part of it.
MR. MACEWAN-How do you figure it's another party, as opposed to
this application?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. RUEL-It's right here. It's part of the application.
MR. PALING-All right. Then I think we should include something in
here, if it looks like this will be this way for quite a while.
They've got the dentist's office. That looks good. This looks
pretty good, and why don't we have the rest of that planted?
MR. BREWER-Rye grass or whatever there.
MR. RUEL-Put Rye down or something. It certainly would look a heck
of a lot better than just a pile of dirt.
MR. PALING-If we can make it part of this, it may revert to the
owner of the property, which I hope it does, but I think we ought
to do something to clear up that dust.
MR. BREWER-Back in this area.
MR. PALING-Yes, that's right.
MR. BREWER-To the tree line?
MR. PALING-Well, anything that's been cleared, that's now blowing.
MR. BREWER-Yes. The owner of the property created the problem.
Why shouldn't he have to solve it?
MR. RUEL-Yes. He did it.
MR. BREWER-I agree with you. I've got a question for Mark. I
asked you quietly, but is that an allowed use, the trailer there,
Mark?
MR. SCHACHNER-That's probably a question for Staff, not for
counsel. I just guess that, not allowed residential, possibly.
MR. HILTON-Right. The use, used car sales, is allowed with site
plan review in this district, and building that is proposed, I
don't see anything in the Building Code and Dave Hatin was in on
Staff review with this application. There's nothing that says that
a trailer of this type for a commercial purpose can't be used.
MR. SCHACHNER-The distinction, typically, is that it's not
residential.
MR. STEVES-To the Board, in discussing this with my client, he has
offered that he will seed, topsoil and seed the remaining disturbed
area.
MR. PALING-Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
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DAVID KENNY
MR. KENNY-David Kenny, I own land, I'm a developer in the area. My
question, I guess more to the Planning Department. This property
is being developed now. I'm hearing they're not going to allow any
increased runoff. I'm under the impression when you develop
property, you're not allowed to have any runoff. So where, I mean,
there some runoff now, a lot of runoff now. He's not going to
increase it. He's developing the land now. I know when I went
through site plan, I had a lot of runoff before I, I had to change
my parking lot, put drainage in, so I eliminated the runoff
problem. Is that part of Town Code or not? If he develops this
and does something there, can he allow the existing runoff to
continue? I didn't know that was allowed. I'm not sure.
MR. HILTON-Well, the applicant's going to, as he stated, clean out
the drYWells on his property and make sure that there is no runoff
from the property. Everything's going to be collected on site and
contained in the drywell.
MR. KENNY-That's not what he stated. He said he wouldn't increase
the runoff that's there now, is what he stated tonight.
MR. PALING-But this has been addressed by Rist-Frost, too, and
that's what I'm going by. They're saying this is okay.
MR. RUEL-Engineers checked it.
MR. KENNY-What they're saying is the water's going to run into that
existing culvert, which is on State property.
MR. STEVES-No.
MR. KENNY-I just heard, the comment was, when he adjusts the
runoff, he's not going to increase what's there now.
MR. PALING-Okay.
MR. KENNY-And I thought the law was you weren't allowed to have
any. Until he develops it, he can't do anything about it, but at
development point, they've got to put in a system that will
maintain all the runoff on their property. They can't have
anything leave the property, is what I thought.
MR. PALING-All right. Do you want to address that, please?
MR. STEVES-Yes. As far as any confusion, my point being is we will
not have any runoff from our site continue off onto any other
property or off of our property. It'll all be contained on
property. The only thing we have is we have an existing 30 inch
DOT culvert that comes from other properties onto our property, and
that ditch line will be maintained, you know, it will be upgraded
and maintained, and we will collect it into drYWells.
MR. RUEL-Isn't there a pipe under Route 9?
MR. STEVES-Under Route 9, that's correct.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. STEVES-That flows from the west onto our property.
MR. RUEL-And it's always clogged up, right?
MR. STEVES-That's correct.
MR. PALING-Okay. There was a letter written by Bill Levandowski in
March, and then it was responded to March 14th by, I think, Tom
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
Nace on the 16th, and that addressed the very question that's being
brought up now.
MR. STEVES-That's correct.
MR. PALING-And then I'm going by their final approval letter that
said it. So it appears that's okay. All right. The public
hearing is re-closed, if I didn't close it before.
MR. BREWER-Yes. I've got one other question for Staff. Did you
happen to see what the original date was that we approved this?
MR. HILTON-With the subdivision before, I know it's a 1994 date.
I don't have that file in front of me, so I can't.
MR. PALING-All right. That's the other question we hadn't faced is
that two year planting guarantee. So you're saying that probably
has expired.
MR. MACEWAN-I would certainly make that a condition of this
approval, should you approve it.
MR. RUEL-It should start now, right?
MR. BREWER-No. I mean, we can't make him responsible for something
that somebody else did.
MR. PALING-That somebody else did, no.
MR. RUEL-How about being responsible for the trees that he removes
and puts new ones in.
MR. PALING-Well, they're stating, I think they're stating that
though.
MR. BREWER-Yes, they're saying it right on the plan.
MR. PALING-Yes. They're telling you what they're going to do.
MR. RUEL-It's on the landscape plan.
MR. PALING-All right. We've had a public hearing. This is a Type
II. Do we have any other comments on the Board for the moment?
Okay. Anybody else? All right. Then do the applicants have any
further comment? All right. Then we can go to a motion on this,
then. Would anyone care to make a motion.
MR. STARK-Are you going to make a motion?
MR. RUEL-Do you want a motion?
MR. STARK-I didn't say make it. I just asked a question. Do you
plan on making a motion or not?
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. STARK-Well, why don't you let me go first, because I want to
make a motion to deny, okay, and I have my reasons for that, too,
and the reasons are, as stated on Page 17994. Do you want to look
it up, Tim?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-It's Section 179-38.
MR. STARK-Particularly Part B. The use would not be in harmony
with the general purpose or intent.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. PALING-What page are you on, George?
MR. STARK-17994.
MR. PALING-Okay. Here we go.
MR. STARK-Okay. Now look under Part B.
MR. PALING-Yes, I've got it. Well, why don't you read it.
MR. STARK-The use would not be in harmony with the general purpose
or intent of this Chapter, okay, that's the main thing. Then you
go over to the other page, under Part D. The project would have an
undue adverse impact upon the natural, scenic or aesthetic, not
ecological wildlife, historic or other open spaces, but it would
have an adverse impact in that area. That's my opinion. Okay.
Now you can take it up with the rest of them, but that's my
opinion.
MR. RUEL-These are requirements for approval on Type II?
MR. MACEWAN-Is that your motion?
MR. STARK-No, no. I didn't make the motion yet.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And I agree with George. I think there's a lot
better use of that property than a used car lot.
MR. STARK-Why don't you poll the Board on this, Bob.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I just feel that that property is a beautiful piece
of property, and if you go up there and stand and look at the view,
it's just, there's got to be a better use for it than selling cars,
used cars on it.
MR. RUEL-Are you suggesting that we change the zone, or the use?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, just because it's Highway Commercial doesn't
mean you have to sell used cars. You can do something else with
it.
MR. RUEL-Well, that's use, right? You want to change the use?
MRS. LABOMBARD-No. I mean, it's still zoned HC.
MR. RUEL-This is a permitted use, right now.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes. it is.
MR. RUEL-AII right. You want to delete that and make it something
else.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I feel that according to this Section 179-38, that
the use that's being proposed to us this evening does not comply
with some of the facets of this.
MR. RUEL-Then you make the motion.
MR. PALING-No, hold it. George, is that a motion?
MR. STARK-No, I didn't make it, Bob. I want you to poll the Board
and see how the rest of them feel.
MR. PALING-All right. Does anyone else on the Board care to
comment about this? Tim?
MR. BREWER-I feel two different ways. I mean, I feel that you
probably shouldn't have used cars there, but it's an allowed use in
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
the zone. He's made mitigation to the facts that have been brought
up. I don't see how we can deny him.
MR. WEST-How far is the Honda dealership from this?
MR. STARK-Quite a distance.
MR. STARK-Quite a ways.
MR. WEST-Quite a ways?
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. WEST-How about a half a mile?
MR. RUEL-About three quarters.
MR. WEST-Would you say that's not the best use of the land there?
MR. BREWER-No. I think the intent of the Highway Commercial zone
is for that use. I mean, suppose somebody came in with a motel and
said they wanted to put a motel there? Maybe I don't like motels.
MR. RUEL-Well, I agree with Tim. It is zoned for that, and it's a
permitted use, and how can we change a zoning? How can we just
look at it and say, this is a permitted use, but we don't like it
and we don't allow the applicant to use it for that? To me, I
don't know.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, a motel, though, if you're going to get into
that, wouldn't be built on a dirt mound. It would b~ landscaped.
It would be paved. It would have a structure with a cellar. It
would have nice roof lines, etc.
MR. RUEL-You read that a moment ago, and I can read the same thing,
and I get a different interpretation, everyone does. I mean, this
is not black and white. It says, the establishment, maintenance or
operation. No, you didn't read didn't read that, proj ect would not
have an undue adverse impact upon the natural, scenic, aesthetic,
ecological, wildlife. That's the area. That's the kind of area it
is.
MR. STARK-Roger, this is a temporary measure up there, probably
until he gets a better use for the plan, and then, you know, put a
bowling alley.
MR. RUEL-Well, he talked about a bowling alley originally, right?
He was going to have the dentistry place and then the bowling
alley.
MR. BREWER-Let me put it to you this way, George. I don't mean to
interrupt you, Roger, but suppose we deny this project. Nothing
goes there. Is that going to have an adverse impact on these other
businesses? I guess what I'm saying is at least with this plan
he's putting the gravel down. He's agreed to seed the rest of the
property. He's agreed to put trees in. He's agreed to fix the
drainage. You get none of that if we deny it.
MR. PALING-Okay. We're polling the Board. So, Craig, how do you
feel?
MR. MACEWAN-I'm not in favor of it.
MR. PALING-That Route 9 has got a variety of uses on it, and I'm
sitting here trying to think of all the different things that are
done there, there are cars sold along that road, in Queensbury and
in Lake George, and there's a variety of other things on there, and
for us to single out cars, I'm not comfortable with that. How do
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
you single a certain thing out and let something in, especially
when you have car sales nearby?
MR. MACEWAN-I don't think it's a matter of say singling something
out, is that I don't think this particular application is harmony
with the area businesses that are up in that immediate corridor.
You come back down, and you come back down to Jeckel, and you come
south and you've got Jeckel, and two doors down you've got the
Quick Lube. You come two doors down from Jeckel, you've got
another quick lube place. Then you've got North Country Radiator.
You've got the used car lot in Mt. Royal, all coming (lost words)
that car lot, but if you're heading north, Jeckel's the last car
lot you've got. There are none others.
MR. STEVES-Then you have a large parking lot for the Great Escape,
I guess.
MR. MACEWAN-That's not a used car lot for sale.
MR. STEVES-Okay, but can I make a statement here? In my opinion,
this is a great improvement to the site, and if the current zoning
is not to be adhered to by the Board, I think that's crazy. We're
here. We're open to all your comments and suggestions. We've done
anything you've asked for us to do. I think it's a substantial
improvement to the site. Now whether or not something comes in
later, down the road, fine, maybe something will, but at least a
temporary fix is better than what's there now. And you're telling
me that it's not?
MR. MACEWAN-Don't put those words in my mouth. I did not say that.
MR. STEVES-No, but give me a better reason than because of the fact
that somebody doesn't like a used car dealership.
MR. MACEWAN-I'll give you my reason. My reason is that I just
don't feel it's in harmony with the businesses that are up in that
corridor right now.
MR. STEVES-I strongly disagree.
MR. MACEWAN-Because there's a zone there that allows a variety of
different uses doesn't mean all uses are in harmony with that zone.
It's as simple as that.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And we have the right to interpret the zoning, or
the Code, just the way we see it, too, because it is subjective.
MR. STEVES-Yes, you do.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And I'm thinking, maybe all your improvements, I
tried to have them outweigh my negative response, but they don't,
at this point.
MR. STEVES-Why?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Because the aesthetics and maybe the stigma attached
to a used car lot. I don't know, but I think when you head north,
Jeckel is the last one. That business has been there.
MR. STEVES-We will have a greener, more eye appealing parking lot
than anything along that corridor. We're having about 75 foot of
green area before our parking lot.
MR. MACEWAN-You were supposed to have it three years ago.
MR. STEVES-We are not here to talk about what happened three years
ago. I'm here to talk about what we are doing to the site now.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. MACEWAN-You're making suggestions on how you're going to
improve the lot. When that whole parcel was clear cut, he was in
here saying that he was going to put the trees up, maintain them,
and he was also going to re-seed that entire parcel.
MR. STEVES-I am here with a proposal to help this property. I
can't talk to you about what happened three years ago.
MR. BREWER-Where's the other car lot on Bay Street? Where do you
draw the line there? We just approved a car lot on Bay Street, an
auction. Where do you draw the line there?
MR. PALING-And the applicant is selling cars right now on Route 9,
and Honda is on Route 9.
MR. MACEWAN-I mentioned that as well.
people up here.
That's why we have seven
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MR. LEUCI-I'd just like to say something. It's true, okay, there
is a stigma about used car lots and everything. I do not intend to
open up a shabby, ugly, disgusting area, place, okay. I'm going to
have a clean environment, clean greenery, clean grass, nice neatly
parked cars. It's not going to be a junk yard, nor anything close
to it. It's going to be a very neat and clean operation. It's
certainly going to enhance the area, which is sitting right now,
which is full of dirt, causing dust and everything else. I'm going
to plant grass, clean up the whole area. It's not going to be an
eyesore. It's going to be fine to look at. It's going to look a
lot nicer than it looks right now.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. I have a question. Across the street, where
they're putting up the miniature golf course, and they put in nice
little buildings with little, you know, nice gabled roofs and a
couple of peaks here and there, and the buildings aren't very big.
I don't know how many square feet they are, and there's a couple on
the site, but they look like, the whole design has been cared
about, and you know, the miniature golf is going to be kind of
exclusive, and it's something that this area has never seen, but
the little buildings, they didn't just stick in a shelter. They
put a little design to kind of make it go with the ambience of what
they're building. Now, what you've got there is just a big, gravel
space with a trailer in the back.
MR. LEUCI-It's going to be a clean, decorated trailer, plenty of
greenery, plenty of grass around, okay, and like I said, a neat,
clean operation. I don't know if you've ever seen my other
operation, but if you did, you might feel differently. If you've
ever walked into my showroom, you may feel differently.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Is that the one on the?
MR. LEUCI-The Mt. Royal Plaza.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The Mt. Royal Plaza.
MR. LEUCI-Yes. If you've ever come into my operation over there,
you'd feel a lot differently, okay.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Well, all I see is the cars in the front, as I go
by.
MR. LEUCI - You've never walked into my showroom. You've never seen
the displays I have within the walls on the inside. You would know
what type of operation I run. It's not a dirty. It's not a dingy.
They're not dirty cars, cars broken down with flat tires. It's a
very clean, neat operation. If you'd ever seen my other operation,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
3/18/97)
you'd feel differently. You would remove the stigma of a used car
lot, because that's not what it's going to be.
MR. MACEWAN-Answer me a question if you could. Do you ever have
intentions, in the future, of paving your parking lot?
MR. LEUCI-I might possibly, yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Do you have intentions in the future of putting a
permanent building?
MR. LEUCI-At this point, no. Possibly, maybe. I don't know. Lets
see how business goes. I mean, the only reason I'm moving over to
there is because business has increased. He was questioning how
many cars are in the parking lot where I am now. The reason I
wanted to go was to expand, because business has increased, and I
need more room. I mean, I'm zoned for it in the area. I'm going
to make a lot right there. A lot prettier than it sits now. It's
going to be a clean operation, and that's it.
MR. PALING-Okay. I think it's time to go to a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 14-97 JOSEPH LEUCI, Introduced by
Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by Timothy Brewer:
As written in the resolution, with the following conditions. One,
remove dead trees and replace trees along the existing tree row
along Route 9 and maintain them for two years. Two, plant rye or
similar grass in all open areas east of the parking area.
Whereas, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of Site Plan
No. 14-97 JOSEPH LEUCI for Automobile Sales; and
Whereas, the above mentioned application, dated 2/26/97,
consists of the following:
1. Application
2. Map C1 dated 2/25/97
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following
documentation:
1. Staff notes
2. Rist Frost comments dated 3/14/97
3. Warren Co. Planning Bd. resolution dated 3/12/97
4. Beautification Committee resolution dated 3/10/97
5. Record of Phone Conversation dated 3/12/97 between Jim
Martin and Roger Gebo - Co. DPW
6. Nace Eng. letter dated 3/16/97 in response to Rist Frost
comments
Whereas, a public hearing was held on 3/18/97 concerning the
above project; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements
of Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury
(Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury (Zoning); and
Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act have been considered; and
Therefore, Let It Be Resolved, as follows:
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
3/18/97)
1. The Town Planning Board,
hereby move to
LEUCI.
after considering the above,
Site Plan No. 14-97 JOSEPH
2. The applicant shall present two copies of the above
referenced site plan to the Zoning Administrator for his
signature.
3. The Zoning Administrator is hereby authorized to sign the
above referenced plan.
4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this
resolution.
5. The conditions shall be noted on the map.
6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process.
Duly adopted this 18th day of March 1997 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. West, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Paling
NOES: Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard
MR. PALING-Okay. Thanks. Could I have your attention, please.
If there's anyone here for the Indian Ridge development, that was
taken off the agenda for tonight, and so if you are here for that,
there is going to be nothing done with now. The applicant's
withdrawn their application to the Planning Board for the present.
MR. SCHACHNER-Bob, you may want to reiterate that those two letters
were read at the beginning.
MR. PALING-Okay, but there were two letters read into the record.
There was one from the applicant and one from Rist-Frost were read
in for the record.
MRS. LABOMBARD-What about Mr. Randall, the Hydrogeologist report,
and his recommendations? That is all just?
MR. PALING-No. If there is a Geologist that's hired, Mr. Randall's
report will be part of his examination, but right now there is no
examination or anything, everything's on hold, but if it's revived,
then that'll be part of it, sure.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And when was this put on hold, as of when, today,
yesterday?
MR. PALING-Yesterday, I think.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yesterday by the applicant and his attorney.
MR. PALING-By the applicant, yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Did they say they would come back within a given
time line?
MR. PALING-You have a letter.
packet.
No.
You have a letter in your
MRS. LABOMBARD-Yes, I've read that. That's all it was, just that?
MR. PALING-Yes.
MR. STARK-Bob, do you want to take up Schermerhorn now?
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(Queens bury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. PALING-Go ahead, George.
MR. STARK-Tim, I'd like to make a recommendation that we all go
out, look at this parcel this week some time on our own, and then
next week we'll be able to more intelligently talk about it, you
know, whether to recommend it or not recommend it to the Town
Board.
MR. BREWER-Well, is that our first step, Mark, we recommend to the
Town Board?
MR. HILTON-Usually the process is, is that the Planning Board
refers the application to the Rec Commission and the Town Board for
their input, and then once the input is received, it comes back to
you for a vote. It might be a good idea, like George said, to go
out and look at the property this weekend, and then next Tuesday,
you know, we can get the ball rolling from there.
MR. STARK-Okay. Now, Bob just informed me there are some people
out here that want to talk about this, but this isn't the time to
talk about it. It has to be advertised for a public hearing. Can
we take comment tonight?
MR. HILTON-You can certainly take comment if you'd like, but, you
know, the people in the audience should also be aware that there
will be additional discussion on this item at a later date,
specifically, as you said, next week.
MR. STARK-Okay. If anybody wants to talk about this, that's fine,
but it's not really official until we advertise for it, then we can
take the public comment again, but all of us up here are planning
on going this week to take a look at the 15 acres to see where it
is, and so on. Then when it comes in we can make our
recommendations to the Recreation Commission and then to the Town
Board, then it comes back to us.
MR. BREWER-We don't make a recommendation. We just send the letter
to the Recreation Commission and the Town Board, don't we, for
recommendation?
MR. STARK-We make the recommendation to the Town Board whether we
want it to be approved or not, and they make the final decision.
MR. BREWER-Not yet we don't.
MR. HILTON-I believe there's a recommendation to the Rec Commission
and the Town Board for them to review it, and after the review, it
comes back to you, and then you recommend whether or not to accept.
MR. BREWER-It's
recommendation.
early in the process for us to make
We just ask them for a recommendation to Y2.
a
MR. HILTON-Right.
MR. BREWER-And then we recommend to the Town Board.
MR. STARK-Does anybody want to make any comments about this at all,
the 15 acres for Schermerhorn?
MRS. LABOMBARD-I thought the Recreation Commission goes out and
walks it.
MR. HILTON-They do.
MR. BREWER-They do, and they come back and give us a report whether
we should recommend.
MR. WEST-They haven't done that yet, right?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. BREWER-No.
MR. STARK-Okay. Nobody wants to talk about this? Okay. Fine.
That's it. We'll take it up next week the first thing. Okay, now,
Tim. You've got this letter from the Lake George Campsite, from
Gardner.
MR. BREWER-No, I don't think I did. Maybe I did, but I didn't see
it.
MR. STARK-Where he wants 78,000 trees planted, seriously. George,
can we take any action on this?
MR. PALING-Well, that's mY option, I think, as to what we'll say.
All I want to do, I know my own feeling in that regard, but I just
want to get the consensus of the Board, and I'll answer the letter,
but it's not going to be me talking. It's going to be the Board
talking, when I do answer that letter.
MR. STARK-I would like to see more trees, not 78,000 trees, but I'd
like to see 60 to 100 trees back there maybe, or, you know,
something put back there, because they did clear cut way the heck
more than they were supposed to.
MR. BREWER-Did we have a limit on the clear cutting?
MR. STARK-Yes, we did have a limit on the cutting, and they went
way beyond it.
MR. BREWER-If they went beyond it, then lets get them back here and
make them straight it out.
MR. STARK-That's right.
MR. MACEWAN-They went beyond the limits of the clear cut. When
they were here for their modification the last time around, they
addressed this issue of the re-plantation of trees out there. He
had a representative of his campground sitting right out there.
She said she was here to attend the meeting on his behalf.
Although she wasn't supposed to speak, I guess, or make a
recommendation on his behalf. She was here to listen on his
behalf. Is that how it went?
MR. PALING-Yes, I believe so.
MR. SCHACHNER-Well, you can check the minutes, but my recollection
is that she said in a, sort of what I would describe as kind of a
passive tone, she said that he had asked her to come and monitor
the meeting, and that he had expressed his wish that he could
review the planting plan before your decision. I think she said
something to that effect.
MR. RUEL-Yes, you're right.
MR. SCHACHNER-That's my recollection. You can check your minutes
to see specifically, but that's my recollection.
MR. PALING-Well, the results of the meeting, however, were that
they were given, come up with a specific planting plan, and that's
what the Board voted on.
MR. SCHACHNER-I believe you're correct.
MR. PALING-And that's what I'd like to say, go along with. Now
it's up to the Board if we answer the letter and roughly, basically
what we say.
MR. MACEWAN-Why do we need to answer the letter?
He wrote the
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
3/18/97)
letter in response to the Board's decision.
MR. RUEL-Yes, why do we have to reply?
MR. PALING-Well, is the Board saying, is that what you're saying,
you don't want to reply to it?
MR. BREWER-No. I read the letter when I first got it, but I don't
exactly remember the content of it. He wanted a lot more trees,
but.
MR. PALING-Well, yes. There were tens of thousands of trees that
were requested. It was kind of an impossible.
MR. BREWER-Like 10 every square foot or something, crazy number
like that.
MR. MACEWAN-It was a large amount, lets put it that way.
MR. STARK-What did we agree on the modification, for him to put in
200 trees?
MR. PALING-I can't remember the number, but we agreed on a planting
plan.
MR. BREWER-Well, why don't we do this. Why don't we ask George to
get us a copy of what we agreed to the last time he was here, next
week we'll review it, and if we don't think it's right, then we'll
answer the letter.
MR. STARK-Fine. That sounds good.
MR. MACEWAN-That letter came in after we made the modification, it
came in after the meeting was all done. There's been no violations
since then. It was in reaction to the violation that he did, the
clear cut.
MR. PALING-Okay. You say don't answer it?
MR. MACEWAN-Don't answer it.
MR. PALING-Okay. Lets move along. George, what do you say?
MR. STARK-I would still like to talk about this next week, after we
find out what we agreed to for the plantings. We did ask for more
plantings back there.
MR. MACEWAN-And we got them.
MR. PALING-And we got them.
MR. STARK-Well, we haven't got anything yet. He hasn't put a tree
in yet.
MR. PALING-But he's got the plan to put them in.
MR. STARK-Well, they're supposed to be in by a certain time, I
guess.
MR. MACEWAN-They have to be in before he gets a co.
MR. STARK-That's going to be a problem, because I'll bet you he
doesn't put the trees in before.
MR. PALING-Then we've got a compliance thing, then.
MR. BREWER-Well, he doesn't get a CO or a temporary co. Is that
what you put in the motion?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MRS. LABOMBARD-But if that was the condition, why wouldn't they
adhere to it?
MR. STARK-Yes, well then how come this guy's only supposed to have
18 or 21 cars and he's up there with 25, 30 every day of the week?
MR. BREWER-Well, George, if there's a violation you see, bring it
to his attention. If he doesn't know about it, he certainly isn't
going to do anything about it.
MR. PALING-But I don't think that the applicant is involved in this
unless he violates something. He's agreed to a planting plan, and
I hope we hold him to it.
MR. HILTON-In a situation like this, the only thing ~ can say as
Staff is that we had a revegetation plan that went before you. You
approved it, and that's where it stands right now. There's been no
further violation.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And that's the end of it.
MR. BREWER-Did we say in the motion he gets no CO before this is
done?
MR. STARK-Did we say that?
MR. PALING-Actually, we're getting off the subject. The subject is
should we answer the letter.
MR. RUEL-No.
MR. PALING-All right. We won't answer the letter.
MR. STARK-One other question. Mark, do you have any idea why, did
he put Indian Ridge off, pending the outcome of the trial or the
case down there, or what's going on with that?
MR. SCHACHNER-I haven't the faintest idea.
MRS. LABOMBARD-What's coming up in April?
MR. PALING-In April, there are some workshops, and unfortunately,
I wish I could go to some of them, but I can't.
MRS. LABOMBARD-You mean the things that we got in the mail?
MR. BREWER-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I know. I can't go.
MR. BREWER-If anybody's interested, tomorrow night at seven
o'clock, there's a presentation on the Hudson River Almanac from
Tom Lake.
MR. PALING-Can we go back to evening site visits, rather than
Saturday morning?
MR. STARK-That's fine.
MR. PALING-Okay. All right. So we're saying that, tentatively,
the first, we went Thursdays, didn't we?
MR. BREWER-Wednesdays we used to, didn't we?
MR. WEST-No. We went Thursdays.
MR. PALING-You've probably forgotten.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 3/18/97)
MR. STARK-Thursdays.
MR. PALING-It looks like four o'clock, Thursday the 15th is the
next group site visit.
MR. RUEL-The 15th?
MR. PALING-Yes, but we'll cover that the next meeting in detail so
we'll know, but, yes, we'll switch for daylight savings.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Thursday's the 17th, Bob. You're on May.
MR. PALING-April. Okay. April, yes. I won't be there that day.
Okay. Four o'clock. I'll be down in Massachusetts.
MRS. LABOMBARD-On the 17th?
MR. PALING-On the 10th.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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