1997-04-01 SP
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SPECIAL MEETING
APRIL 1, 1997
INDEX
Site Plan No. 13-97
Tax Map No. 60-7-7, 8, 9
Lambi Investments, Inc.
D/B/A Olde Coach Manor
1.
Subdivision No. 1-1997
PRELIMINARY STAGE
Tax Map No. 48-3-51.1, 53
Cerrone Builders
10.
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD
AND STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS
MINUTES (IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
QUEENS BURY PLANNING BOARD
SPECIAL MEETING
APRIL 1, 1997
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
GEORGE STARK, ACTING CHAIRMAN
CATHERINE LABOMBARD, SECRETARY
ROGER RUEL
TIMOTHY BREWER
CRAIG MACEWAN
MEMBERS ABSENT
ROBERT PALING
DAVID WEST
PLANNER-GEORGE HILTON
TOWN ENGINEER-RIST-FROST, BILL LEVANDOWSKI
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 13-97 TYPE: UNLISTED LAMBI INVESTMENTS, INC.
D/B/A OLDE COACH MANOR OWNER: FRANCES &: ORMONDO LEOMBRUNO ZONE:
MR-5 LOCATION: 565 BAY ROAD PROPOSAL IS TO BUILD 10 APARTMENTS
AND 10 GARAGES TO EXISTING 33 UNITS. ALL LAND USES IN MR ZONES ARE
SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING BOARD. WARREN CO.
PLANNING: 3/12/97 TAX MAP NO. 60-7-7, 8, 9 LOT SIZE: 13.6 ACRES
SECTION: 179-18
FRAN LEOMBRUNO, PRESENT
MRS. LABOMBARD-It was tabled, and we're going to bring it up
tonight.
MR. STARK-Okay. If the representative for Lambi's would like to
come up and identify yourselves, please and speak into the
microphone.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Fran Leombruno, one of the owners.
TOM JARRETT
MR. JARRETT-Tom Jarrett, I'm a professional engineer, addressing
stormwater and wastewater issues on the site.
MR. STARK-Okay. George, do you have any comments?
MR. HILTON-At this point I think what I'm going to do is turn the
mic over to Bill Levandowski who has been doing the engineering
review for this site plan, and he can summarize the correspondence
he's had with the applicant, what his outstanding issues are.
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Subsequent to our letter of March 18th, primarily
raising several questions having to do with the sewage system and
enumerating several items that were not available for our review.
Tom Jarrett's office and Fran Leombruno have submitted several sets
of supplemental information that, I'm not sure what the Board has
seen or has in front of you, but to summarize at this point in
time, the additional information has been submitted on the, that
satisfies ~ concerns on the sewage disposal system, and I believe
that the systems in general, as are detailed on the Tom Jarrett
drawings are adequate and comply with the regulations. We have
continued to have dialogue regarding storm drainage. The initial
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supplemental submission used some runoff coefficients that were not
what the Town requires, and we've gone back a couple of times, and
as a result of that, have conceptually agreed that the current
design approach and revised stormwater management plan represents
the Town's regulations and is acceptable. However, the detailed
grading and drainage plan has not been updated to agree with that
revised concept, which has been approved. However, I would be
comfortable if the Board chose to grant conditional approval
subject to our receiving and reviewing that detailed plan at a
later date, prior to issuing building permits.
MR. STARK-Okay. Your letter of March 31st to Jim, the following
items still need to be addressed, okay. We're going to have the
applicant address each one of those items, and you can comment or
the Board can comment. Tim, have you got that letter from March
31st?
MR. BREWER-I've got two. I've got one April 1st, too.
MR. STARK-From Bill to Jim.
MR. RUEL-April 1st is a follow-up on the 31st.
MR. BREWER-Okay. Yes. I've got it.
MR. STARK-Okay. Mrs. Leombruno, do you want to address the first
item?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Okay. Niagara Mohawk electric will enter to the
west of Unit G, and once it enters the crawl space of Unit G, it
will run through the crawl space of the building, not necessitating
any interference with septic fields, and Tom will address the
Niagara Mohawk gas entry.
MR. STARK-Bill, as these items are addressed, do you want to give
us your comments also, whether they're adequate or not?
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-The electrical layout seems to offer no
interference with any proposed sewage or drainage. That appears to
be adequate. I would just suggest that, ultimately, somebody take
all of these separate pieces of paper and kind of coordinate them
on one plan so everything shows on one site plan.
MR. STARK-Well, before the final plat is signed, everything has to
be on that, to your satisfaction.
MR. RUEL-All these open engineering items, then, will be addressed
verbally this evening? .
MR. STARK-I'm talking the March 31st letter.
MR. RUEL-Yes. There are no written responses?
responses tonight.
Just verbal
MR. STARK-Verbal responses and Bill either okays them or doesn't
okay them.
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-There actually had been written responses to some
of these in the form of eight and a half by eleven sketches which
have come from Fran Leombruno and some from Tom. So there are, I
don' t know if the Board has all of these. Some of these just
arrived in my office today. So I'm not sure if the Board has
received them.
MR. RUEL-~ don't have any responses.
MR. STARK-Right here, the colored ones. Are you talking about the
colored ones?
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-That's the landscape plan, but another one came in
late this afternoon indicating where the electrical service was
coming in.
MR. RUEL-I have a question here. If some of these items are still
open after a discussion this evening, are these to be conditions of
the resolution or how do you expect to pick them up?
MR. STARK-No. You can't have too many things open, Rog. Like, if
they just have to be put on the final plat before it's signed, then
you can do it.
MR. RUEL-There seem to be quite a few items here.
MR. STARK-Well, she's addressing them. Okay.
adequate response or do you need more on that?
Is Number One an
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-I believe Tom is going to address the other
utilities.
MRS. LABOMBARD-The gas.
MR. JARRETT-Niagara Mohawk has told us that they would like to come
in from the north end of the site with their gas service, and they
asked if we could provide a 10 foot separation from the gas main on
either side to a leach bed. So in the future, if any of the leach
beds have to be re-excavated, then we would not come close to
digging up a gas main. What we've looked to do is move the two
leach beds that serve Units I and J to the northwest to provide the
separation. We believe we can do it. We've provided
correspondence today to Bill Levandowski suggesting that we think
that we can do that. As soon as we confer with Niagara Mohawk and
they agree to that, we'll show that on the plan and provide a copy
to the Town.
MR. STARK-Okay. Number Two?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-The grading at the utility pole, on the grading plan
it shows that it may be a swale behind the pole, and upon talking
with Tom, there is no need to go behind the pole. We would
maintain grade as is and therefore not be disrupting that pole.
MR. STARK-Bill, is that a factor or no?
MR. LEVANDOWSKI - Yes, but that's an acceptable response. The
grading plan just needs to be changed to reflect the fact that
that's not going to be lower there.
MR. JARRETT-Yes. The grading was shown there for stormwater runoff
purposes, and actually after looking at this issue, we can pull
that contour back a little bit to avoid effecting that pole. We'll
still confer with Niagara Mohawk to make sure that they're
comfortable with that set up.
MR. STARK-Number Three?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-The walkways, I discussed this with Bill, will match
to the existing grading/drainage plan. The copy that was provided
just showed the walkways being, with a slight curvature, but in
order to comply, we're just straightening them out to match to the
existing drainage plan.
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-That's fine.
MR. STARK-Number Four?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-From all indications, we will be proposing to
disturb the potential of seven percent of an acre of the wetlands
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by having the driveway, the west of the building, encroach and the
grading plan itself as shown would encroach on about seven percent
of an acre. It's my understanding that we're allowed to disturb up
to 33% of an acre, therefore, maintaining well under the required
limit.
MR. BREWER-Who determines whether you're doing seven tenths or
eight tenths or whatever amount?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-It was a calculation based on the existing grading
plan.
MR. BREWER-And that has to be shown to anybody or not?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-It's my understanding not.
MR. STARK-George?
MR. HILTON-This would be an Army Corps wetland, if anybody. They
have jurisdiction over this, and they would determine how much of
the area of the site was within their wetland. If it's 33 or a
third of an acre and over, then they have jurisdiction. Anything
under a third of an acre, they don't.
MR. BREWER-I understand that, but my point is, if you have a piece
of property and you don't contact them, how do you know or how do
they know, that you're disturbing any of it?
MR. HILTON-They don't, and the potential exists that someone could
alert them and someone from the Army Corps could go out after the
fact and investigate the property, but again, this is their
jurisdiction, and it isn't something that we enforce through our
Wetland Regulations.
MR. STARK-Charlie Main?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-In November of 1996, we had Charlie Main come up and
do his testings and flag the wetlands and Jeff Martin came up and
surveyed and plotted that, and I did have, I knew it had been
addressed, but I didn't have the particulars at last week's
meeting, but we have it plotted on bellum, and it's transferred
onto the existing drainage plan, and I've been assured by Charlie
Main, who has apparently a working relationship with the Town, as
far as his qualifications, and he has assured me that that is
indeed the areas involved.
MR. MACEWAN-Has he reviewed the plan since you?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Yes. I had him come up last Friday afternoon and
review it and go over it, and asked if he needed any qualifications
for post to the Town, and he assured me absolutely not, that the
Town was well aware of his qualifications in this matter.
MR. BREWER-So we don't need a letter? Is that what we're satisfied
with, then, stating that they're qualified to go in there and fill
seven tenths of it?
MR. HILTON-We wouldn't need a letter from anyone saying that they
can fill seven tenths. Again, our comment from last week was we'd
like to see some assurance as we have before that it is in fact
under a third of an acre, but if the Board so wishes to put some
minor condition with the information that's presented this evening,
that's fine. That's your decision, but the applicant should be
aware that eventually down the line a situation could arise. I'm
not saying it will, where the Army Corps could be called in and
could present different data. That's just a possibility.
MRS. MACEWAN-And what would happen at that point? Suppose that
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
they disturb more than what they're required to, what would happen?
MR. HILTON-The potential exists that the Army Corps could possibly
stop construction, shut them down, something like that.
MR. STARK-You're talking seven tenths of an acre is not very much.
Are you satisfied with Charlie Main's flagging anything?
MR. BREWER-I don't have a problem with it. I just think that maybe
we should get a letter satisfying the point.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-The other issue is that there is no permanent
structure even close to the flagged wetlands. It is strictly a
corner of, actually the entrance part of the west driveway that
would be encroaching, and the proposed change in grading down the
west side of the last two units. There is no permanent structure
involved here at all.
MR. BREWER-If there's not a problem, I don't have any problem with
his qualifications, but I'm just saying.
MR. STARK-Well, you know, it would be different if he was building
a house on that seven tenths of an acre, or a building. Here
you're talking a little bit of macadam on seven tenths.
MR. BREWER-That's fine.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-And the majority of it is the change in the grading
plan. The worst that could happen is maybe a retaining wall, as
opposed to the grading extending.
MR. MACEWAN-When Charlie reviewed it, he felt comfortable?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-And I asked him Friday afternoon. I said is there
absolutely any potential, and he said, absolutely not. What ~
flagged is accurate. That is it.
MR. MACEWAN-Would he be willing to extend a letter saying such as
a condition of approval?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-I asked him if he wanted to do anything in writing,
and he said, if anybody has a problem, contact me directly. He had
no problem with that at all.
MR. BREWER-Yes. A letter from him would satisfy me.
MR. MACEWAN-That would satisfy me.
MR. BREWER-A letter from Charlie Main.
MR. STARK-George, why wouldn't Charlie write a letter?
MR. MACEWAN-He's saying he would, if you needed to.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-He told me that if anybody had any questions, he
would directly speak with, you know, address it.
MR. MACEWAN-I'd be looking for a letter just saying he signed off
on it and he feels comfortable with his flagging of the area, and
his measurements, and his attachment to the final plat.
MR. STARK-Okay. Number Five. That's the one you just talked
about, isn't it, Bill, the storm drainage?
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Yes. I indicated that we had gone back and forth
a couple of times, and right now the concept that they've submitted
with their revised stormwater management report, which I just got
late today. I'm not sure if you folks have a copy, I'm in
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agreement with, and will make some design changes to the plan that
was previously submitted. Basically, it reduces the number of
d~ells, but it is still an acceptable design, meets the Town's
criteria, and I would feel comfortable if the Board wanted to grant
conditional approval of it, based on drafting it up as we've
discussed, us having to look at it before it got a final building
permit, or final plat was filed, or whatever.
MR. MACEWAN-Before it's signed off by the Chairman.
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. MACEWAN-Okay.
MR. RUEL-It should be a condition for the drainage design
modification.
MR. STARK-And also a letter from Main. That's another condition,
Rog. Okay. George, do we have anYmore technical questions or
anything? Tim, do you have anything?
MR. BREWER-I don't have anything else.
MR. RUEL-I was under the impression that we would have an answer to
these engineering comments this evening.
MR. STARK-We just did.
MR. MACEWAN-You got your answers.
MR. RUEL-Aside from that, something in writing. There are a lot of
open items. We have a stormwater management report we haven' t even
seen.
MR. BREWER-Yes, you've got that.
MR. RUEL-It's revised you said, didn't you?
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Yes. I got a copy of the revised late this
afternoon. I don't know if YOU folks have a copy or not.
MR. JARRETT-The revised copy that you got this afternoon they do
not have. It addresses the comments that Bill's letter of March
31st raised. We can go through those individually, if you'd like,
right now. The report that he has addresses those in writing, and
you will all have copies, and the plans will be updated to reflect
what's in that report.
MR. RUEL-I will accept the comments of the engineering review.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I agree.
MR. STARK-Okay. Now we left the public hearing open, I believe.
Is there anybody who wishes to speak for or against this project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
NO COMMENT
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-Okay. We have to do a SEQRA, and I think it's a Short
Form.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. STARK-Now also, George, at the end of the SEQRA, should we take
Mark's comments into account there? You've seen Mark's letter?
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MR. HILTON-Yes, and I believe Roger has a form in front of him.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I have penciled it in.
MR. RUEL-Yes. It's written in here.
MR. RUEL-Okay?
MR. STARK-Fine.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 13-97, Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Planning
LAMBI INVESTMENTS, INC., and
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 1st day of April, 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Stark
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. West, Mr. Paling
MR. STARK-Roger, if we're going to make a motion on this, lets go
over the conditions first.
MR. RUEL-I don't think I have all the conditions.
condition. I have the drainage design modification.
I have one
MR. STARK-That has to be on the final plat before it can be signed
off on.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
MR. MACEWAN-And reviewed by the Consultant.
MR. STARK-And reviewed by Bill before it can be signed off on.
MR. BREWER-What happens if there's changes? Then they have to come
back to us?
MR. MACEWAN-No. I think we're going to leave it to the point just
where he's going to review these modifications and the revisions
that they've made, and if they're acceptable to them, they'll just
forward that information on to us so that the Chairman can sign off
on the plat. That's what we're looking for.
MR. STARK-Now what about the letter from Charlie?
MR. BREWER-Charlie Main.
MR. MACEWAN-That also should be included, before the plat is
signed.
MR. BREWER-Everything should be included before they get any
building permits.
MR. RUEL-What's everything?
MR. STARK-Well, that's the one he's got to review.
MR. BREWER-All points on this March 31 letter.
MR. RUEL-Well, can we say that all Rist-Frost comments in the
letter dated 3/31 and 4/1, Items One through Five, have been
satisfactorily addressed with the exception that, the drainage
design modification be subj ect to submission of a revised plan
prior to the issuance of a building permit. Does that sound right?
MR. STARK-Mrs. Leombruno, you know what we're talking about here?
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Yes.
MR. STARK-You can get the letter from Charlie, and then the new
design, Bill reviews, signs off on before the Chairman signs off on
it.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Correct.
MR. BREWER-Before any building permits are issued.
MRS. LEOMBRUNO-Okay. So we're talking a couple of days and we'll
get this down to Bill.
MR. STARK-Well, I don't know how fast you can get it down to him
or, you know.
MR. LEVANDOWSKI-Yes. It won't take long after we get it.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 13-97 LAMBI INVESTMENTS, INC.
Introduced by Roger Ruel who moved for its adoption, seconded by
George Stark:
For construction of a 10 unit addition, with the condition that all
Rist-Frost comments in letters dated 3/31 and 4/1, Items One
through Five, must be satisfactorily addressed prior to the
issuance of a building permit, and a letter from Charlie
satisfactorily addressing the Army Corps concerns.
Whereas, the Town Planning Board is in receipt of Site Plan
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
4/1/97)
No. 13-97 LAMBI INVESTMENTS, INC. to build 10 apartments and
10 garages to existing 33 units; and
Whereas, the above mentioned application dated 2/26/97,
consists of the following:
1. Application
2. Topographic Map of Lambi Investments, Inc. revised 1/22/97
Survey Map of Olde Coach Manor Subdivision dated 3/12/91
Drawing 122396 dated 2/24/97
Map of proposed Subsurface Sewage Disposal Systems by J.
Martin revised 1/22/97
Whereas, the above file is supported with the following
documentation:
1. Staff Notes
2. Warren County Planning Bd. resolution dated 3/12/97
2. Rist Frost comments dated 3/18/97
Whereas, a public hearing was held by 3/25/97 concerning the
above project; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has determined that the proposal
complies with the site plan review standards and requirements
of Section 179-38 of the Code of the Town of Queensbury
( Zoning); and
Whereas, the Planning Board has considered the environmental
factors found in Section 179-39 of the Code of the Town of
Queensbury (Zoning); and
Whereas, the requirements of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act have been considered; and
Therefore, Let It Be Resolved, as follows:
1. The Town Planning Board, after considering the above,
hereby move to Approve Site Plan No. 13-97 LAMBI INVESTMENTS,
INC.
2 . The applicant shall present two copies of the above
referenced site plan to the Zoning Administrator for his
signature.
3. The Zoning Administrator is hereby authorized to sign the
above referenced plan.
4. The applicant agrees to the conditions set forth in this
resolution.
5. The conditions shall be noted on the map.
6. The issuance of permits is conditioned on compliance and
continued compliance with the Zoning Ordinance and site plan
approval process.
Duly adopted this 25th day of March 1997 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. MacEwan, Mr. Stark, Mrs. LaBombard
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. West, Mr. Paling
MR. BREWER-So that means you get everything to the engineer. He
approves it. Then you can start.
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(Queens bury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1997 PRELIMINARY STAGE TYPE: UNLISTED
CERRONE BUILDERS OWNER: CERRONE BUILDERS (UNDER CONTRACT) ZONE:
SR-1A LOCATION: EAST SIDE OF BAY ROAD SOUTH OF STONEGATE
SUBDIVISION APPLICANT PROPOSES RESIDENTIAL CLUSTERED SUBDIVISION
WITH 28 - 1/2 + ACRE LOTS WITH INDIVIDUAL SUBSURFACE SYSTEMS.
CROSS REFERENCE: P6-96 TAX MAP NO. 48-3-51.1, 53 LOT SIZE:
57.97+ ACRES SECTION: SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS
TOM NACE & MIKE O'CONNOR, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. STARK-Okay. The next item of business is another item that was
tabled last Tuesday, the Al Cerrone/Harris subdivision. Okay.
George, do you have any comments on this before we get going?
MR. HILTON-Since the last meeting, which I did not attend, I'm
under the impression that there was some discussion and it was
tabled for further comment from the Highway Superintendent on the
road network and possible connection.
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. STARK-Do you want to read this letter?
MR. HILTON-Yes. I have a letter from the Highway Superintendent,
which I'll read into the record. It's to James Martin, from Paul
Naylor, dated March 31, 1997, Regarding Cerrone Subdivision. It
says, " I have reviewed the preliminary plans for the Cerrone
Subdivision. It is my recommendation that this be connected to
Fieldview Lane for the safety of the traveling public and for
maintenance purposes in regards to the Town of Queensbury Highway
Department. Also, I am in agreement with the first Phase directly
connecting to Bay Road. Respectfully, Paul H. Naylor, Highway
Superintendent"
MR. STARK-Okay. Would you guys please identify yourselves and then
address the comments that Paul wrote?
MR. NACE-Okay. For the record, I'm Tom Nace, from Nace
Engineering, representing Al Cerrone.
MR. O'CONNOR-I'm Mike O'Connor, from the law firm of Little &
O'Connor, also representing the applicant.
AL CERRONE
MR. CERRONE-And I am Al Cerrone.
MR. STARK-Okay. Do you want to address these comments?
MR. NACE-AI and I met with Jim Martin and Paul Naylor, yesterday
morning. We reviewed with him the layout of the subdivision, the
road design in its entirety, and the specific issue of the
connection through to Fieldview, whether or not he would require
that. As you recall at our last meeting, we were prepared, if
necessary, to bring in a single entrance road off of Bay and keep
our road separate and apart from Fieldview. I think Paul Naylor's
letter is self explanatory. He is requiring, from a Town Highway
standpoint, for safety and maintenance reasons, that the road be
connected through to Fieldview. Now, in light of that, we have
given you some revised plans, and the revised plans are paved only
in the phasing. We have it in a larger scale, it's easier to see.
As you will recall, the old phase line came through here and down
and this was Phase I, and coming back out to Bay was Phase II.
What we have done is change that. So now Phase I is all of this
connection from Bay Road into Phase I immediately, and then Phase
II is the back end of the subdivision. There will be a temporary
hammer head turn around, Paul has approved, located at this point
in Phase I, and then when Phase II is constructed, that will be
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting
4/1/97)
removed and (lost words) through. So in this scenario, when Phase
I is complete, there will be a paved entrance road, I mean, the
roads are complete, before any CO's are issued in here, there will
be a paved entrance road from Bay, through which all the residents
will enter the subdivision.
MR. STARK-Does that include the connection road?
MR. NACE-The connection road would be done in Phase I as well.
Yes.
MR. STARK-Before any building permit?
MR. NACE-Before any CO's are issued.
MR. RUEL-I don't believe Paul Naylor is here this evening, is he?
MR. HILTON-No, he isn't.
MR. RUEL-AII right. So you had the discussion with him about that
opening of Fieldview?
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. RUEL-Would you explain that in more detail, exactly why he
wanted that, and what objections to keeping it closed?
MR. NACE-Okay. Two concerns. Primary concern is for safety
reasons, for fire and emergency access, so that there are two
access points that serve, not just our subdivision, but the
existing subdivision, and secondly, the reason you've heard time
and again, as far as safety access, is that, if there were a
traffic accident on one road, and some other emergency occurred
within the subdivision, that there's a way to get there. The
second reason if for snow plowing and for maintenance. It's a lot
easier. Paul has a hard time with a lot of dead end roads in Town.
They take longer to plow, just turning the plow around and doing
the turn around, and it's a time consuming issue for him. So,
those are the reasons.
MR. RUEL-Did you happen to mention to him the possibility of one of
these break away fences?
MR. NACE-We mentioned the possibility of some sort of a limited
emergency access, and he was not interested in that. He wants a
complete through connection.
MR. RUEL-Well, he wants it because it'll make his job easier.
Right?
MR. NACE-Yes. Well, make it easier.
MR. MACEWAN-I don't think that's the overwhelming reason. I really
don't.
MR. STARK-Craig's got some comments out of the Town Ordinance.
MR. RUEL-Okay.
MR. MACEWAN-I mean, I went through the Subdivision Reg's the other
day, and I found probably four or five references in here that tell
us this is one of the things we should be looking at when we do new
subdivisions, specifically Section 183-23F, and in part it says
"the arrangement of subdivisions and streets shall provide for the
continuation of principal streets to adjoining subdivisions and for
the proper protection of principal streets and the adjoining
properties which are not yet subdivided", which would happen if
these other two parcels on either side of this project were ever to
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be subdivided, and it says "It's to make necessary for fire
protection, movement of traffic and the construction/extension of
present services and utilities". Now that's pretty much, in a
nutshell, but most cases in here, the other four or five referenèes
I found here, everything was talking about fire services, emergency
services, access for those services, and we have done them recently
in the last couple of years with a few other subdivisions we've had
in front of us, and one of the first ones I think about is Hudson
pointe, where that was going to be stand alone on its own, but we
interacted with that, I think, and two or three entrances and exit
points were put in with that. So I think we'd be failing ourselves
if we didn't do it.
MR. BREWER-We do it with site plans. We're trying to do it with
Shop N' Save and Doyles.
MR. MACEWAN-Yes.
MR. STARK-George, do you want to read the Staff Notes on this? I
know you already read them, but do you think you need to re-address
them?
MR. HILTON-Well, I really don't think, yes, I could just summarize
these for you.
MR. STARK-The main stumbling block seemed to be the road.
MR. HILTON-It's for emergency purposes, and we would recommend
connection to Fieldview Lane. However, you know, we would also
recommend that the connection to Bay Road in the first phase of the
subdivision be built and that no construction vehicles or
construction traffic would use Fieldview Lane but would use the
access point to Bay Road.
MR. RUEL-To reduce the traffic on Fieldview?
MR. HILTON-Yes.
MR. BREWER-Do we have the rest of this map anywhere, Tom, that
shows this subdivision over here?
MR. O'CONNOR-I was involved with the initial subdivision that's to
the north of us, and we set that up specifically for future
connection.
MR. BREWER-Well, that's exactly what we're doing with this
subdivision here.
MR. O'CONNOR-Mr. Harris owns a piece that was later developed by
Bill Barber, Michael Barber.
MR. MACEWAN-That's also the idea you have behind this one. If the
parcel to the west and the parcel to the east every gets developed,
you've got the access to either one of those subdivisions as well.
MR. NACE-In reality, I'd like to point out that I believe that our
entrance onto Bay Road, from our proposed subdivision, will be a
safer entrance than the existing Stonegate Drive. That's really,
in a way, even though Paul has worked on it and tried to improve
it, it's still a substandard entrance, and it doesn't have a very
good tangent up top, and it doesn't have a very good level landing
spot coming on to Bay, and the site distance on Bay is a little
more limited at Stonegate than it is at our proposed.
MR. BREWER-What would be the distance between your entrance on Bay
and theirs?
MR. NACE-It's, if I remember right, 350 to 400 feet.
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MR. STARK-Tim, unless you've got any more questions, I'd like to go
back to the public hearing, so you could hear some comments. Tom,
do you have anything else before we go to the public hearing then?
MR. NACE-Just one thing to clarify. At the last meeting, and what
has just been said, as far as construction access, I would like to
point out that, with the initial arrival of equipment on this site,
we probably will have to bring the initial equipment in through
Fieldview Drive, okay, just because there's no good off loading
place up on the edge of Bay Road at that point.
MR. STARK-Are you talking a one time thing?
MR. NACE-Yes, exactly, to get the bull dozer and possibly a couple
of other pieces of equipment on site. The safest way to do that is
through the existing road.
MR. RUEL-Just a matter of weeks, right?
MR. NACE-That would be just a matter of just a couple of days to
get the initial equipment on site.
MR. BREWER-Just to bring it there and get it in.
MR. STARK-Okay. Mike, do you have anything?
MR. O'CONNOR-No.
MR. STARK-Okay. Now, we left the public hearing open, and if
anybody would like to speak for or against this project, or come up
and examine the new plan, which most of you probably haven't seen,
I'd like to tell you, also, when you come up, please identify
yourself, address any questions you have to the Board. We'll write
them down, and then when everybody's done, then we'll have the
applicant come back and answer them. So if anybody would like to
come up, speak for or against, come on up.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
KEN SIMMONS
MR. SIMMONS-My name is Ken Simmons, resident of Fieldview Road. I
am not in favor of extending Fieldview Road. As far as safety
reasons, we have, you know, safety of children on site. That
increased traffic will probably not help. As to maintenance, I
don't really see where it's going to be any easier, as far as the
plows turning around, I think it's probably easier for them than it
is for me to shovel, where they dump on my driveway, but I have
thought, before the hearing, about, if Fieldview were not extended
what could happen, and I had an idea, based on something Mr.
MacEwan had said last week. He'd mentioned that a double access
could be satisfied by a double wide road. It was the opinion of
Staff that that did not specifically apply to this development, but
I had thought maybe it could if you made a double wide road,
actually two parallel roads with space in between for planters or
shrubs or something. Pave the one half, make a nice 90 degree
sweep at the bottom, so there would not be a cuI de sac, in case
that were a problem, but make a nice 90 degree sweep to the middle
of the development there, weave the other side as a construction
road to go down into Phase I there. When that's done, pave that
over. You've got a beautiful double entrance, or entrance and
exit, with planters, shrubs, etc. in the middle. I think it would
add value to the development. Mr. Levack would probably be more
expert on that than I would, but I think it would be a selling
point, and I think it would also give the people of the new
development a sense of neighborhood of their own, rather than being
the poor relation tacked on to Stonegate, and that was just my
thoughts on the matter, and obviously Mr. Naylor thinks
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differently.
MR. BREWER-So you're talking about a boulevard, then, going down.
MR. RUEL-Yes, a boulevard.
MR. SIMMONS-If that's what it's called, okay, but I know
Lamplighter Homes has that kind of a thing down in Moreau, and I
think maybe it would just sort of, everybody seemed to be worried
about construction access and two accesses, and I thought it might
have been a creative solution to that problem, is two, you could
have one paved road, the other would be the construction road, to
be paved over when the construction is done, and you have nice
entrance way onto Bay, put up some nice signs, pillars, whatever,
announcing the development, and everybody could have something that
they wanted.
MR. STARK-Okay.
speak?
Thank you.
Is there anyone else who wishes to
TOM CICCONE
MR. CICCONE-My name is Tom Ciccone. I'm a resident of Fieldview
Drive. A few years ago, Mr. Naylor came down there. We had a
divided entrance way with a cement peer in the center, and there
was a place for flowers in the middle, and at that time, he took
that median out because he said the road wasn't adequate for snow
plows, and he was supposed to get back with us and make a different
entrance way, which he never did, and I guess what we're saying is,
he said at that time that the road wasn't even adequate for the
people that lived there. I think there's 17 or 18 houses in there,
in that whole community, and now if we open the road up, I guess
we're getting right back to where we started. Our road can' t
handle 16 more houses, and right now, I guess Tom, when he started
off and he said that he was going to build, that he was going to
use a new road for the construction road, and now we're going to be
unloading equipment on a road that's pretty well broken up now. I
don't know if any of you ladies and gentlemen have been down there.
The road is pretty narrow and it's pretty beat up now, and we do
have a problem in the morning, with school kids and buses trying to
get out onto Bay Road, and I don't see how we can handle another 16
houses. I'd really like to see them just go ahead and build the
road to Bay Road, and just kind of leave Fieldview alone. Thank
you.
MR. STARK-Okay. Is there anyone else?
VALERIE WEINGART
MRS. WEINGART-I'm Valerie Weingart. I live right at the corner
where you're going to build the access road. I was just wondering
if this was going to be done, if there were some conditions that
perhaps the people who are presently living there could be
established. For example, a stop sign at the corner of Stonegate,
because right now there is not one there, and also maybe some way
to enforce the speed limit for the new people that aren't aware of
the children that are living there. Either a 10 mile an hour, 5
mile an hour speed limit sign, beware children, speed bump,
something so they know that they should not be driving fast through
there.
MR. MACEWAN-Where are you asking for the stop sign?
MRS. WEINGART-At the corner of Stonegate and Fieldview, right at
the "T" there.
MR. MACEWAN-Both of those issues that you've brought up are both
Town issues, because they're the legislative body of the Town, and
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they're the ones who set up that kind of speed postings or highway
postings, sign postings. You'd need to bring that to their
attention. We could pass it along to them in a memo form or
something like that, but we're not in a position where we can
dictate posting a speed limit or hazard signs.
MRS. WEINGART-Okay. Thanks.
MR. STARK-Is there anyone else?
MARY LEE GOSLINE
MRS. GOSLINE-Mary Lee Gosline. I was wondering if the County has
approved this proposed road onto Bay yet. Do you know? Has the
County approved the proposed road going onto Bay yet?
MR. STARK-That's not a County road, is it?
MR. MACEWAN-Bay Road's a County road, and they need to make an
application to the County Highway Department.
MRS. GOSLINE-And what if the County says no?
MR. MACEWAN-What if the County says no? Would you like to address
that, because we addressed that last week.
MR. HILTON-Well, I think, and I haven't heard the applicant' s
position, where he is in the process of contacting the County, but
certainly I would hope that they've done some preliminary research
and got a preliminary opinion on connecting to Bay road, but if the
County said no, then they might have an approved plat, but they
wouldn't be able to construct without that County approval.
MRS. GOSLINE-Shouldn't that be part of the pre-approval to have
that done first?
MR. STARK-Well, we'll have to ask them, they'll address it when
they come back up, then.
MRS. GOSLINE-Okay, and the top of Fieldview or Stonegate, if you
look in the regulations, it says that it should be adequate for
four cars coming in, and at the moment it's not. So should that be
enlarged?
MR. STARK-That doesn't have anything to do with this project.
MRS. GOSLINE-But they're using the road.
people onto Stonegate.
You're putting more
MR. BREWER-No. Actually they're building their own road. They're
just making it accessible for the plow to go through. If there is
ever an emergency, they ~ go out that way.
MRS. GOSLINE-So this other road is going to be paved and
everything?
MR. STARK-Before the CO's are issued.
MR. BREWER-People aren't going to go in here and go through this
subdivision and come out up the road. I wouldn't think they will.
Maybe they will. Some of them, if they're going north, maybe to
the lake or something, but I think probably the majority of them
are going to use their own road, go off at Bay, go left.
MRS. GOSLINE-But if you look at top of Stonegate, it's very, very
narrow. So if three cars even came at the same time.
MR. BREWER-Probably what's going to happen is the people in
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Stonegate are going to come out this road. After it's all said and
done, I think you're going to find that that's what's going to
happen. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.
MR. STARK-Anyone else?
MAUREEN SCHLINGER
MRS. SCHLINGER-My name is Maureen Schlinger, and I'm a resident of
Fieldview Lane, and my concern is also at the very top of
Stonegate, where you're talking about people coming down and then
going out Fieldview and then out to the access road. I know when
I put my daughter on the bus up at the top, very often, and I don't
know how many times this has happened, cars coming to or even from,
they go right by the bus. People pulling in and out. I have a
hard time getting my daughter to cross the street there to get on
the bus. It's a very dangerous situation, which we have tried to
rectify with the School. I know that's not your problem, but I
think that more cars coming in and out of there, and you say, you
know, I mean, how do we know for sure that people aren't going to
come in and out both ways. I mean, we're talking about a lot of
traffic there. I know are concerns are for our children. You keep
hearing that, but our children are used to, you know, we've given
them safety reasons in that whole area. Now you're talking about
construction coming through there, all kinds of more cars, and I'm
just wondering why, maybe the possibility of a loop, a road from
Bay Road coming around like a loop, like almost Sunnyside. Is that
maybe an option? I don't know. Thank you.
MR. STARK-Thank you. Anyone else?
MR. SIMMONS-Ken Simmons again. One question. Is it within the
purview of the Board here, in line with what Valerie had mentioned,
to maybe require a speed bump in the roads that will be built in
the new development, specifically to slow down people going through
onto extended Fieldview? Is that part of the approval process
here?
MR. STARK-We'll bring it up. That's all I can tell you. Okay. Is
there anyone from the public yet that wishes to speak?
KEN BAKER
MR. BAKER-I have a question. My name is Ken Baker. I'm down in
Fieldview also. I'm a little concerned as to, where is this road
that's coming out of this development going to be hitting Bay Road?
Is that right at the top of the hill?
MR. STARK-You see it right there. Go over and look at the map.
MR. BREWER-350 to 360 from your road, Ken.
MR. STARK-South of your road, south of Stonegate.
MR. BAKER-So you're almost at the top of the hill, when you come up
the hill, right before those trees.
MR. STARK-You see the trees right there, Kenny, down the line.
MR. BAKER-You're talking in here?
MR. STARK-Yes, and the road is coming out just to the left of it.
MR. BAKER-When you're over here, you're only looking at, coming out
of Stonegate, you're only looking at 400 feet. Someone coming over
the top of this hill, there's always a problem when you're going to
make a south hand turn out of Stonegate. There's always a problem
of this car, the speed it's coming, or whatever, when you're
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
pulling out. There's always a problem north when you're pulling
out. (Lost words) it might be a little bit easier for the people
coming gg Bay Road to see someone pulling out of this road, but it
isn't going to be any easier for the people over here in Stonegate
to be seeing this (lost words) right in here. You should be giving
more review. I think that was the other problem that we had with
Naylor when he made our entrance very, very narrow. We said there
was no way, coming up that hill, to make a right hand turn into
Stonegate that we could slow down so the traffic behind us would
slow. Now you're going to put another road into there, right at
the top of that hill.
MR. STARK-Okay. Is there anyone else that wishes to speak? Okay.
George, do you want to read the letter that you received.
MR. HILTON-We received this letter since the last meeting. The
public hearing is still open, so it's a letter dated March 27,
1997, to the Planning Board members. It says, "I am writing in
regards to the development proposed for the Harris property off Bay
Rd. I have lived in the adjoining development (Stonegate Manor)
for the past 22 years. My family has enjoyed living here. A
couple of times we considered moving however after looking the
Queensbury area over we found many great houses but no area we
chose to live in. It was always back to Stonegate and its quiet
setting and comfort away from the hustle and bustle of the main
area. Therefore, I would like to address a couple of areas of
confusion and concern. First, the size of the proposed development
keeps being compared to the Stonegate development as the same or
comparable. Actually this is not so. In Stonegate we have a total
of 17 Houses with a breakdown in lot size as follows: 2 lots over
an acre 7 lots just short of an acre 4 lots just over 3/4 of an
acre and only 4 lots 1/2 acre or more In the proposed development
the greatest number of lots is barely larger than a half acre with
a couple of larger ones. The next area is one of concern. In the
proposed development an area of non development will exist. It
seems to me as well as others this area seems to be a grey area
with no one quite knowing what this area is for, who it belongs to
or will belong to, who maintains it and who if anyone will pay
taxes on the land. I feel this area needs to be addressed and more
finely defined before acceptance. Now for mine, as well as my
neighbors, main issue of concern, the entrance to the proposed
development. I would, first, invite each and every board member to
drive north on Bay Rd. to Stonegate Drive and turn in. This turn
is at the end of a blind hill of 45 MPH traffic (if they're going
the speed limit). It is easy to see by the bend in the road as you
first go in and by its narrowness that it was not constructed for
a great volume of traffic. The issue of having two entrances in
case of an emergency was brought up. This issue has not been a
concern for 25 years and would not have been brought up if it had
not been for the development of this area. The people of Stonegate
bought the property knowing there was only one entrance. It was
not a concern then and is not now. I ask that you please take into
consideration the condition of the existing road, the quality of
the neighborhood you are disrupting and the actual necessity of
tying in to Fieldview Rd. And lastly I must address Ron Harris as
the decision he has made to sell his property had to be a long and
most difficult one. To know that you have to relinquish something
that means so much and been in your family history for so long can
only be heart wrenching. My only solace to you is that if your
father, Stan Harris, had not decided to sell the portion of land
now known as Stonegate, I as well as many others would not have the
wonderful memories of our children growing up in a country like
setting in a big city world. For that I can only say thank you and
may you know that the new development may offer the people that
live there the same. I thank all involved for the time and
consideration they have and will be giving to this matter.
Sincerely, Marcy Dark"
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MR. STARK-Okay. Now, George, and with the Board's permission, I'm
going to leave the public hearing open until we hear the
applicant's response to some of these comments, in case someone
wants to have an additional comment, and then, and then we can
always close it at the end. Okay? So the public hearing is still
going to be left open. Lets have the applicant address the
concerns that we've written down here, and then if anybody else
still has a comment, I'll take some more comment at that point, and
then we'll have them address it again if you still have comments.
Okay. Tom, the first comment seemed to be, well the safety and
speed bumps we can't put in, but the safety of the children and,
you know, the connection.
MR. NACE-Obviously, speed limit signs, as you pointed out, children
playing signs could always be petitioned, and I think the developer
would certainly support any petition to the Town Board for the use
of such signs. I come back to the entrance, and I think the
neighbors have said it very well, is that the existing entrance on
Stonegate is a difficult entrance. The site distance is difficult.
The geometrics of the entrance are difficult. This is a really
narrow road. I think that the preponderance of not only the people
in the proposed subdivision, but also the people in Fieldview will
end up, in the long run, using this entrance because it will be
more convenient. It will be easier, safer. The geometrics are met
here. We've got the required level or relatively level landing up
at the top. You come off the road at 90 degrees. The site
distance is much improved. We're right on the crest of the hill.
We're on the outside of the curve on Bay. So you can see to the
north well. You don't have cars popping up over the hill because
we're right at the very crest. You can see way down to the south
on Bay. It will be a much safer entrance. So I don't think that
any traffic going through this connection into Fieldview is going
to be generated out of this subdivision. If there is any traffic
there at all, it'll be generated out of Fieldview. That's the main
issue. There was some discussion brought up about the possibility
of a boulevard entrance and some sort of a loop road with that.
We've looked at a lot of different options back at the schematic
phase. We looked at looping down through here. The problem with
that is the geometrics just don't work. The piece of land is
narrow enough, by the time you get the minimum radiuses in, for a
Town road, the geometrics just don't work out. A boulevard
entrance, the problem with that, if you brought this in as a
boulevard entrance, you cannot take any front lots off that
boulevard entrance, because Paul doesn't want a lot of openings
through the median. It would have to be plowed, okay, to get to
people's driveways. People would have to turn across, this lot,
for instance, people would have to turn across the median and get
to the driveway. That's partially an unsafe condition, and it's a
difficult maintenance condition. So for those two reasons, we have
eliminated, in our thinking, eliminated that option.
MR. STARK-Okay. Mrs. Gosline brought up the County approval.
MR. NACE-The County approval, the main objection the County could
have in any access to a County road is the safety, the sight
distance. We've looked at that. We're confident that we will meet
the County criteria. As soon as we have preliminary approval, it's
a three or four day turnaround to send an application, set of plans
up to Roger and get him to look at it.
MR. MACEWAN-Can you give just a very quick overview of what the
County review is, to make sure that you meet their needs?
MR. NACE-Well, Roger Gebo at the County will look at the plans,
familiarize himself with the proposed access and the geometrics of
our road, where it comes on to the County. Then he'll go out and
look at it and verify for himself that the safety and the sight
distances are adequate and issue a permit. In general it takes us,
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like I said, less than a week to get a permit, actual permit so we
can go out and construct from the County.
MR. RUEL-I have a question, Tom. If you had a double wide road,
would you have enough frontage on Bay?
MR. NACE-No, we would not.
MR. RUEL-It seems pretty narrow there.
MR. NACE-It is.
MR. RUEL-So it's actually impossible.
MR. NACE-The geometrics of it would be very difficult. We would
not have adequate right-of-way right beside, you know, the main
throat of the entrance. Generally, I think at Hudson Pointe we
used 70 or 75 feet per right-of-way. We have 50 feet here.
MR. RUEL-That's the maximum, right?
MR. NACE-No, that's the minimum.
MR. MACEWAN-The Subdivision Reg's, though, say you have to have a
minimum of 35 lots in order to be applicable for a boulevard. Am
I right?
MR. NACE-From a practical standpoint, a boulevard entrance does not
work for us.
MR. RUEL-Do you know whether there are two roads in and out of
Stonegate for safety and emergency use?
MR. STARK-There's one.
MR. NACE-Existing?
MRS. LABOMBARD-There's only one.
MR. NACE-They never had two.
MR. O'CONNOR-I don't recall how that road was initially approved,
to be honest with you, Roger, and I don't know if the people
themselves developed a medium, as somebody here indicated, after
the subdivision was approved. I don't think we know that, and they
probably know better than we do if they've lived there.
MR. RUEL-Apparently safety was not the same issue then, when
Stonegate was built.
MR. NACE-I'm not familiar with that.
MR. O'CONNOR-1970, '73. We went through the site plan, not site
plan but sight distance review on both sides of that road. I don't
know if they were the same standard that you have now. Most
standards have all improved.
MR. STARK-Tim, one of the questions, and, George, maybe you could
help us on this. One of the main things from the people in
Stonegate now is that, you know, their entrance is totally
inadequate, and we can't do anything about that, but, George, what
would these people have to do to get that addressed? They would
have to go see Naylor or petition the Town Board? I don't know
what they did, but I just want George to let us know what should be
done.
MR. HILTON-It's a situation where I would suggest that they contact
the Highway Superintendent or discuss it with the Town Board,
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
because ultimately the Town Board has the decision, with any
improvements, off site improvements such as this.
MR. BREWER-Well, there's an alternative right here. I mean, if we
approve this, they're going to build a road. They are going to
have an alternative.
MR. STARK-It's superior to their entrance.
MR. BREWER-Exactly.
MR. STARK-But still a lot of people that live up on the other end
are not going to come down through Fieldview and then go up the new
entrance.
MR. BREWER-Right.
MR. STARK-I would rather go out my own entrance.
MR. O'CONNOR-I wouldn't be surprised, too, if the school bus system
doesn't change their stop, and take it away from Bay Road and bring
it down into the subdivision, because they will now have the loop.
MR. STARK-Okay. I understand. So they would be picking up down in
the subdivision itself rather than on the road, which is a bad
place to pick up anyway.
MR. O'CONNOR-There's been some concern expressed on that.
MR. RUEL-This subdivision is 28 lots, right?
MR. NACE-27 lots.
MR. RUEL-27. Just for edification, for the Board members,
statements were made about the necessity for two roads in this
subdivision of land Chapter 183 also indicates that subdivisions
containing 35 lots or more shall have at least two street
connections with existing public streets. Of course, this is under
35.
MR. NACE-I think the issue initially was brought up when we were
talking about only one road connection, okay, in Phase I. We were
talking about having Phase I done with only one road connection to
Fieldview, not the connection with Bay. This was back initially
when (lost words) if you added up what was already existing in
Fieldview, plus Phase I in this subdivision would have exceeded the
35. I believe that's when that initially came up.
MR. RUEL-No. Everything is based on Naylor's comments here,
because if I read this statement correctly, it indicates to me that
all I need is the one road.
MR. NACE-According to your Subdivision Regulations.
MR. RUEL-Yes. Well, this is a subdivision. This is a regulation.
MR. MACEWAN-I disagree with you on that. There's numerous
references throughout these Subdivision Reg's that tell us that we
should internalize.
MR. RUEL-I picked the one that ~ like.
MR. MACEWAN-That's why we're a Board made up of seven members.
MR. O'CONNOR-Roger, I think that simply says that if we're going to
have more than 35 lots, we must provide two accesses. That's the
way it's been interpreted. That's the way it's been read.
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MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. O'CONNOR-I doesn't say that if you have less than 35, you shall
only have one road.
MR. RUEL-No, but it doesn't say you must have two under 35.
MR. BREWER-They're not building two, Roger. They're building one.
Only one road connecting to another that's existing.
MR. O'CONNOR-Ultimately the road design is approved by Naylor.
MR. RUEL-They're building a small road to connect to Fieldview.
What is that little road there? Is that a road? There's no name
to it, but that's a road.
MR. STARK-That's Fieldview. The new road?
MR. RUEL-The new road.
MR. STARK-Well, whatever the name he wants to name it.
MR. RUEL-They're building that road, and they're building the one
to Bay. That's two roads they're building.
MR. STARK-No. They're connecting the one road, Rog.
MR. BREWER-Well, if you want to say that, Roger, then they're
building four roads.
MR. RUEL-AII right. Okay.
MR. STARK-Mr. Ciccone had a concern that, you know, go over the
order of events again, that Al would come down, use Fieldview once,
unload.
MR. NACE-Okay. The issue is, obviously, construction equipment
coming through Fieldview. What I was trying to say is that at our
previous meeting I had stated that all construction equipment would
come in our construction road. Nothing would use Fieldview. That
probably is impractical from the standpoint that initially to get
equipment, a dozer, maybe a front end loader, in here to work is
impractical to try to park those along the side of Bay Road and
unload the equipment. So the equipment would probably be off
loaded down at the end of Fieldview and brought into the site,
okay. It's an initial one time only, once that equipment's here,
it'll open up the access through to Bay and as the majority of
construction equipment comes in, it will be through the Bay Road
entrance.
MR. STARK-Another concern was the question was brought up about the
road being pretty beat up, the end of Fieldview where the cuI de
sac is. It is kind of beat up down there.
MR. NACE-That whole cuI de sac will be re-done. We are actually,
when we connect through, we will be re-constructing that back
through the entire frontage of that cuI de sac, back to where it's
a straight road. So that will be a brand new road.
MR. STARK-Who's responsible for the removal of the macadam on,
there's a brown house to the west, to the east of that, and then
there's another house to the west.
MR. NACE-The developer will be responsible. In fact, the note's
right on the plans. I think it's on the grading and drainage plan.
MR. O'CONNOR-That's what we did at Indian Ridge and Hudson pointe.
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else except me on the Board here. If you didn' t get any
satisfaction in whatever other things you've gone to the Town for,
I can' t, we can' t be responsible for that, but I'm just saying, you
know, the Reg's are there, and probably now I feel a lot more
toward opening that road, for your safety.
MR. STARK-Okay. I think you've answered everything adequately,
Tom. To the people here, I think you've got a crummy entrance on
Stonegate. We were up there numerous times, members of the Board
have all been up there a few times. ~ think it's a crummy
entrance. I can't do anything about your entrance. If ~ were you,
I would take a petition up to the Town Board or to Naylor or
something and try to get him to fix it. That's what I would do.
I ~ould be happy with the school bus coming down the new road, or
wh1chever way they come, and exit Stonegate or exit the new road to
pick the kids up in the development rather than out on Bay Road.
I think that's a big plus. The minor inconvenience of the
construction of the road for a couple of weeks, it's an
inconvenience for a couple of weeks, but the people that live by
that cuI de sac are going to pick up a heck of a lot more front
yard. I mean, that's a plus.
MR. CICCONE-I don't want it.
MR. STARK-You don't want to mow it. Okay. Does anybody else on
the Board have any comments?
MR. RUEL-Yes. There've been a lot of objections here by the
citizens of Stonegate, and I don't think we have satisfied them.
What we have tried to do with the citizens of Stonegate is to
explain to them, from an engineering standpoint or Highway
Department standpoint, the necessity for doing what the applicant
intends to do, but in all fairness, when are we going to really
start listening to what the people want? I can look at the
regulations and I can find ways of not connecting that road and not
necessarily violating any of the subdivision regulations, and I
really don't care what the Highway Superintendent says. He could
be wrong. In many, many cases I've seen, being on this Board many
years, is that many times a lot of people get together and express
a certain idea, something they want or don't want, and we have a
habit of getting around it and explaining to them why it shouldn't
be that way, and why they should listen to us. ~ think we should
start listening to the people. If there's no alternative, that's
one thing. I believe there are.
MR. MACEWAN-The only comment I guess I would have, along those
lines, Roger, is if this particular development, Stonegate and
Fieldview, had another entrance in and out of that development, I
would probably lean more toward saying, okay, lets not
interconnect. It has to do with the Subdivision Regulations and
what they want to do from a Planninq standpoint. The Subdivision
Regulations are adopted by the Town. It has nothing to do with
Paul Naylor and his wishes. It has nothing to do with the fast
money making deal for Mr. Cerrone to make money on. This is a
requirement of the Subdivision Regulations to interconnect into
existing neighborhoods wherever it's appropriate. It's appropriate
here. These people, whether they want to realize it or not, in my
opinion, I think are going to gain a very valuable asset to their
development by having an extra egress into there. If they ever had
a fire emergency, and this happened before in the Town, they would
really be up the creek not having entrance into that development,
and I think it would really benefit that development if they had
it.
MR. RUEL-I came up with an idea what he could have it, the break
away fence at that location. It's a closed road except for
emergency equipment. That takes care of the emergency equipment,
but no one seems to even think about it.
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MR. STARK-Okay.
MR. NACE-There was an issue about how long rebuild the piece, the
end of Fieldview there.
MR. STARK-Right.
MR. NACE-I'm guessing that you're probably looking at, between
digging that out, putting a new sub base paving, you're probably
looking at a week to two weeks.
MR. STARK-When?
MR. NACE-Probably it would be mid to late summer, mid summer I
would guess. It depends on the approval process.
MR. STARK-Yes.
MR. NACE-Depending on when we're approved, it'll be done as part of
Phase I. That's all I can tell you.
MR. BREWER-George, what's the hurt if we didn't connect?
MR. STARK-I'm just going by what the Town Reg's. You're asking me
why are we connecting or what?
MR. BREWER-No. I understand why we are. I'm saying, what's the
harm if we don't? I wasn't here last week.
MR. NACE-I think one thing Paul brought up, and, you know, the
argument was made, well, this makes Paul's job a little bit easier
by having the connection, but who cares about making it a little
bit easier in some instance, but if you start looking at this on a
Town wide business, if all of our subdivisions were little dead end
streets, all of a sudden the cost of maintaining our Town road
system could get substantial, the cost of circulating the plows
when they can go into a subdivision and spend and hour or two
plowing the streets within the subdivision (lost words) a
reasonable pattern is a lot more efficient than having to build
(lost words) dead end streets. The subdivisions are (lost word)
for a good reason. The regulations, as Craig has pointed out, in
several instances, say lets start planning for the future. Lets
not just look at now with blinders on, but lets plan for the
future.
MR. MACEWAN-More importantly for emergency services, I think,
should be the overwhelming reason to join these two.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Another thing is, Paul Naylor is an elected
official, and, well, you know, I would imagine that because he has
constituents, he would try to keep their well being at bay. Well,
that's one of the things that he's concerned about, and I believe
when he made this decision, and last week when I left you people,
I was very much for your endeavor. I heard, as a mother, myself,
and I listened to all of your reasons, and I really felt that you
had some really good points, but you know now as I've gone through
the book and I've thought about it, you know, maybe you people in
Stonegate and on Fieldview have been living on some pretty lucky
time here, because you only have one access out of there. What if
there was a fire and also at the same time an emergency vehicle had
to get through? I'm just saying that maybe the long run, we have
an obligation here to be concerned about your health and safety,
and it would be an awful thing if in the future something like this
came back on us.
MR. CICCONE-After all these years, somebody's concerned about us.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Pardon me, I'm not speaking on behalf of anybody
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
in. I don't object to that road at all. I think it has a lot of
advantages, and I do think human nature being what it is that it
will be so much easier to use that for parties on either side that
it may turn out to be a plus, and I deplore the fact that maybe
there should be an "us" against "them" sort of mentality. I really
don't think that has to be, I would not like to see that. I would
not like to see one neighborhood pitted against another over the
simple idea of a road. The other thing I might suggest to make
things easier, if the builder would like to bring his equipment in
our driveway to the south of our house, we offer that as an option
so that perhaps they don't have to come through the Fieldview
properties and cause disruption there. We have complete access to
that whole area right there, and that might be an option. Thank
you.
MR. STARK-Okay. Fine. We'll bring it up.
MR. MACEWAN-Thank you.
MR. STARK-Okay. If that's it, then, I'd like to close the public
hearing, and we'll have the applicant address these final comments,
and then we'll go on.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. STARK-One of the questions was why paved and not just gravel
and so on?
MR. NACE-For an issue of maintenance. With a gravel road, again,
plowing, maintaining is more difficult. It's only a short. I'm
sure that Paul would require it to be paved.
MR. MACEWAN-Don't the Town Subdivision Reg's specify that it has to
be a finished grade before it can be dedicated to the Town?
MR. NACE-It has to be paved, yes, to be accepted.
MR. STARK-The next one is the future road.
MR. NACE-Yes. The future road out through the Oudekerk property.
Again, the way this subdivision did, we've left a kind of right-of-
way going to the property line, in anticipation of it, down the
road, whether it's five years away, ten years away, or fifty years
away, there's away, there's a means to access through this
development. In reality, that road probably will eventually wander
back out to Bay, but we have no guarantee whether that's going to
occur within five years or within twenty years. The idea of the
developer in this instance with this property being able to
additionally benefit by this connection, being able to go over 35
lots, is not true. The only property owned or to be owned by Mr.
Cerrone is what's shown. There are only 27 lots within that
subdivision. There's a restriction against further subdivision of
any of the lots that are large enough to subdivide. So there's no
way that this little piece of road additionally benefits him in any
way, shape or form. In fact, the cost of construction of this is
greater than if he didn't. So it's actually costing him money to
make that connection.
MR. STARK-What about Mrs. Oudekerk's offer of her property to bring
the equipment in? I mean, is that something that's feasible?
MR. NACE-I think it is feasible, the road into their farm will
access back into their field here, and would make it very easy to
get back to this construction here up to Bay Road.
MR. STARK-Would you do that?
MR. NACE-We would definitely do that.
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MR. CICCONE-Well, George, can I call you the second day if they
unload some more?
MR. STARK-You bet.
MR. CICCONE-Thank you.
MR. BREWER-This road thing, I mean, the more we sit here tonight,
is it something, I understand that we're talking about the access
and the entrance and the exit, whatever, but is it something you
guys want to do, tie into that?
MR. STARK-Before we get into Tom's rebuttal here, let me just ask,
does anybody else have anything to say about this, the second
round? Because I am going to close the public hearing, and we've
got to move on.
MRS. WEINGART-I just have a question. I'm Valerie Weingart. I
live right across the street from Tom. You kept saying that it's
just a one day deal, that these trucks are going to be there just
to unload the equipment, and that's it. Somebody else had said
that what they're going to do is just totally get rid of that
circle there, re-do that road to go into this new development. Is
that going to take that one day that you're talking about, or is
that another day or another week?
MR. STARK-We'll let them address it, but you understand what
they're talking about, like just to get the road built up to Bay,
they've got to unload the equipment on your street, go through,
when that road is done, when the other road is done, then they
would go back, take out the cuI de sac in front of your house, re-
sod and everything in front of your house and make it nice right
out to the new road they're putting in. That will not take one
day.
MRS. WEINGART-Right. Does anyone know an approximation as to how
long that's going to take, because I mean obviously you're talking
how soon will this be done? In the spring time when my two kids
are outside playing?
MR. STARK-We'll find out.
MRS. WEINGART-Okay. Thanks.
MR. STARK-Okay. Is there anyone else?
SUSAN BALFOUR
MRS. BALFOUR-My name is Susan Balfour, and I just want to reassure
the folks that I've sold a couple of them their houses in there,
that I've worked with Al Cerrone since 1988, and we've done three
developments together, and the people have been very happy, and Al
has built nice developments that compliment the ones that are
there, and I am a mom and I'm always concerned about my child
getting on the school bus. This is going to be a much safer way
once they're used to it, because it just makes sense that, I see
when I drive up and down Bay, people getting their kids on the bus
on Bay. It only makes sense now that the school bus will come down
in the development. Change is sometimes difficult, but AI's
experience in the past has been very good, and they can go over and
see like Clendon Ridge, which is a nice development.
MR. STARK-Okay. Thank you. Okay.
ELEANOR OUDEKERK
MRS. OUDEKERK-Just one last comment. I'm Eleanor Oudekerk. I'm in
the property just to the south of that, adjoining the road coming
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to me that it's an easy way out, to cut a road through Fieldview,
and then he can go and build all the houses he wants, and he has
two accesses.
MR. STARK-Tommy, I think the new road connection to Bay has to be
built before any CO's can be issued. That has to be done, paved,
accepted by the Town. Is that the road you're referring to?
MR. CICCONE-What I'm talking about is we have 17 houses. He builds
16 houses. Now he's included in our development. So now we've got
to have two openings. Well, I think that's what he just said. I'm
not sure, but if you do that, okay, so now lets say you've got 35
houses and you have Fieldview for one access to Stonegate, and then
you have another access, the new road, to Bay Road, okay. What I'm
saying is, as part of a money making plan, he only has to build one
road, but if he leaves Fieldview alone, he has to build two roads,
because if he builds more than 35 houses in the new development, he
has to have another road, and he's using that for our road, and
that's not fair to us, and I know that we're not (lost word) for
anybody to make a profit, and we're not against him building
houses, and I'm deadly against him bringing down some equipment,
unloading in front of mY house because that's where he's going to
be unloading it.
MR. STARK-Where do you live on here, Tommy?
MR. BREWER-He lives right down there where the road dead ends.
MR. STARK-Right on the end, on the west side?
MR. CICCONE-Yes, the east side.
MR. STARK-That's the east side.
MR. CICCONE-And George just said, this is the last chance you're
going to say something. I don't know if Naylor has all his, where
does Naylor get all this power? It's like the letter said, for
years and years and years, he wasn't concerned about two entrances.
He promised us to open the road wider so it would be easier to get
off of Bay, and he said he would get back to us, and that's over
two years ago. He never did it. He took the median out because he
was concerned about the snow being removed in the road. It
probably was a problem. We're not against that either, and then he
promised us to come back and, you know, you close the meeting, and
what else are we going to do to the public people? What else can
we say? I think we just try to get the message across here. I
really think they're out to make a profit and they're out to get
money, and that's great. That's what the world's all about, but at
our expense, at our little community's expense. I don't really
think we need, I don't think we have to have that road go through
Fieldview. I'm sorry if they, I think it was quoted last time
there was going to be three, four million involved. Well, that's
what one of the statements was, but the thing of it is, they can
build two roads over there. They don't ever have to bother us, and
as far as Naylor, I don't think Naylor took into consideration the
people that live there. I think he's just more or less concerned
about moving snow. Yes, it would be easier for him to go right
straight through with a snow plow. I understand that, but are we
here to make Naylor's job easier? I mean, if all of us taxpayers
are paying these people and I think we're going to try to get a
strong message across to the Town, we don't want a road there. I
don't want any equipment unloaded in front of my house. I don't
think it's fair to me, and, you know, it's not right.
MR. STARK-You understand that it would only be like a one day deal,
unload the equipment, go through the road, that's the end of
unloading equipment in front of your house.
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MR. NACE-Which says remove existing turnaround, maintain access for
abutting driveways during construction, restore abutting driveways
with paved connection to new road, topsoil, seed, and mulch all
disturbed areas. So that will be the developer.
MR. STARK-Okay. I think you've addressed most of the questions
that the public has had. I'm going to ask the public for any more
additional comments before I close the public hearing. This is
your last shot. So if you have any more questions, please come
forward, and bring them up.
CHARLES WEINGART
MR. WEINGART-My name's Charles Weingart. I own the property right
here. If you're looking at a road right here, everybody's opposed
to this road. Why don't we just make it a temporary road or just
a gravel road. Why does it have to be paved? You say all of this
are going to use this access. I bet you if you asked every person
in this development, we're still going to use Stonegate Drive.
You're saying this is going to be for a safety reason, but just
open up the end of the road, make it a gravel road so it connects
these two existing subdivisions, and then leave both of us alone,
then we can use our own property and they can use their own road.
MR. STARK-Okay. We'll have them address it. Thank you. Any other
questions?
MRS. GOSLINE-On the map here, it shows a future road, right here
you've got a future road for future development going over the
(lost word) part of this phase.
MR. STARK-To another future development. So if they come in with
their road here, the amount of houses they have would be under 35,
and then future development could go right up here, and you could
put another road somewhere else, and then you wouldn't have to
bother Fieldview for the numbers, because you're worried about two
entrances for so many homes. Those homes, here's your next
entrance over here. It says future development.
MR. BREWER-No. What that simply is, is it leaves the option for
another road if that is ever developed. If it's not developed,
though, there's no road.
MRS. GOSLINE-The first phase is under 35 homes. So what's the
difference? You say they have to have two entrances for 35 homes.
MR. BREWER-That's ª development. If you came in with 70 homes, he
would have to have two accesses.
MRS. GOSLINE-Right, but there's not 35 here. So if you just let
them come in their own development and left Fieldview alone, I
would just hate to see that development disturbed. I mean, there's
got to be an option. That's why they bought there, and that's why
they're living there.
MR. STARK-Okay. Is there any other questions or comments on this
project?
MR. CICCONE-My name's Tom Ciccone. We keep talking about, we've
got 16 houses or 17 and it handles our road fairly well. We don't
have a problem with that, okay, and if we open it up, there's
another 16 houses. So therefore you have to have two accesses,
because you've got over 35 houses or so. What happens if he
doesn't open that road? He builds 16 houses, and then if he builds
over 35 houses, he has to build another road somewhere, but if he's
got Fieldview, he doesn't have to do that, and I'm really looking
at this as, forgive me for saying, everybody has a right to make a
profit and to make money. I'm not against that, but it looks like
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MR. BREWER-I agree with what Craig said. I agree with what Roger
said, but are we doing the best thing by connecting that road? I
think we are. I think, in the long run I know people don't like
change. I didn't like change when they made developments up by illY
house. I really didn't. I fought it for a long time, but it's
there now. I accept it. I use it. I think the people are going
to find that they will use that road.
MR. STARK-Okay. Roger, do you have any other additional comments?
MR. RUEL-No. I just feel that Stonegate residents want to maintain
the integrity of Stonegate, period.
MR. STARK-Cathy? Craig? Okay. Now this is Unlisted.
MR. HILTON-It's an Unlisted action. You've got the Long Form.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MR. HILTON-Excuse me. I just had a member of the public approach
me. She seems to think that maybe not all the questions were
commented on. I'd just like to make sure that all the additional
comments were clarified.
MR. STARK-Okay. Did she specifically say which one? Because I
thought we covered them all, but maybe.
MR. HILTON-The property is not going to be developed (lost words) .
MR. STARK-Okay. Tom, you heard the question, or Mike, about the
property being fully built out.
MR. O'CONNOR-We are going to offer it to the Town as open space.
If they will take it, we'll deed it to them, but we are not
requiring that they give us a break on the recreation fees. They
simply want it as open space so they can have it with an access way
to it that runs along the edge of the property. If the Town
doesn't want it, we can put it into a limited homeowners
association, and limited homeowners association would maintain it
and take care of it.
MR. STARK-Okay. Do you understand that, ma' am, what he said?
Okay. You understand the Town recreation fee for every lot that's
subdivided has to be $500, the recreation fee and so on?
MR. RUEL-So you will have a homeowners association?
MR. NACE-Not necessarily.
MR. O'CONNOR-If the Town Board does not want to take this as open
space without giving us a discount or without any money, then we
would have the limited homeowners association, where there are no
improvements, and it's a homeowners association maintained or open
space purposes. It's a little bit simplified than a full fledged
homeowners association. It goes through an approval process with
the Attorney General's office.
MR. STARK-Does that adequately answer your question, ma'am?
MARCY DARK
MS. DARK-My name is Marcy Dark, and I live on Fieldview Road. It's
just that I did ask questions in the letter, and they were asked
last week, and I don't feel that they were addressed again this
week, and the one was an existing property that won't be developed,
and I guess you pretty well explained that. Also the half acre
lots. I don't think it was clearly understood last week in
reference to the half acre lots, because that property was re-zoned
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
as one acre lot.
MR. STARK-It was re-zoned, what, ma'am?
MS. DARK-One acre.
MR. STARK-One acre.
MR. MACEWAN-You're talking about this subdivision?
MS. DARK-The new development.
MR. MACEWAN-This is taking advantage of what's called clustering,
which allows the developer to basically squeeze down his
development and leave more open space.
MS. DARK-I mean, that ties in with our development, also, and it's
really not anything comparable to what we have now. I mean, our
homes have a lot of open space. They're not clustered together, if
that's the word you want to use.
MR. STARK-Okay.
MS. DARK-Those were my only two concerns.
MR. STARK-Thank you. Okay. Tom, do you want to respond?
MR. NACE-Here is a tax map of the existing development. Some of
them, I haven't written the sizes on all of them. Some of them,
over at the end here you can see there's an acre lot. The ones in
the middle are a little over three quarters of an acre. The ones
on the end are just a little over half an acre. So you can get a
general picture there of the size. I think, if you look at ours,
the ones along here are half an acre, just a little over half an
acre. As you come along the east side, there's six tenths of an
acre. Up in here, six tenths of an acre. Up in here, we've got a
lot of 1.7, 1.3, 1.2, .86, in back here, the lots are 1.2, 1.1. So
I think they're in the same general ballpark, size wise, as the
existing, and that's the reason for our previous comment.
MR. STARK-I think one of the concerns for the people in Stonegate
are also that maybe these houses aren't going to be quite the same
economic. I'm trying to word this delicately, you know, not any
low income housing. They're going to be comparable. Mike, do you
want to address that, what the new houses will cost roughly, or
maybe Al can.
MR. O'CONNOR-What is your sell range going to be?
MR. CERRONE-Between $120,000 and $150,000.
MR. STARK-Okay. Al Cerrone said that the new houses are going to
be priced between $120,000 and $150,000, and I think that' s
comparable to what's existing now in Stonegate.
MR. O'CONNOR-Susan Balfour, who is a realtor, is that comparable?
MRS. BALFOUR-Actually a little bit higher than some of the ones
that are in there.
MR. STARK-Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to bring that out to
alleviate some of the fears, possibly, there. Okay. I don't know
where Tim went, but we might as well start in on the SEQRA then,
right now. George, before we start, do you have anything
additional that you want to bring up?
MR. HILTON-Well, I've been handed some information from the Town
law statutes regarding cluster zoning, and as I am not Town
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Counsel, I really can't comment on these. If there are any
concerns, I will definitely give these to our Town Counsel, and he
can address these prior to any final approvals, and we will have
comment on these prior to final approval.
MR. STARK-Okay. This is for Preliminary anyway.
MR. HILTON-Right.
MR. STARK-Okay. Cathy, do you want to read the SEQRA?
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. This is on the project impacts and their
magnitude, responsibility of Lead Agency. First of all it's
"Impact on Land Will the proposed action result in a physical
change to the project site?"
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. Well then is it going to be small to
moderate, potential large impact, or can the impact be mitigated by
change, or should I, do you want me to enumerate the different
types of changes?
MR. RUEL-No. I think it's moderate.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. Small to moderate.
MR. RUEL-Yes. That's it, small to moderate impact.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. "Impact on Growth and Character of Community
or Neighborhood Will proposed action effect the character of the
existing community?"
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. BREWER-I think no.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I think no because we just went through the new
sites coming in are very, if you average them out, you probably get
the same average acre as what you had.
MR. RUEL-Read that again.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. I'll be glad to. "Will proposed action
effect the character of the existing community?" All right.
Examples that would apply. All right. Do you want me to give you
some examples in here?
MR. STARK-Yes.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. "The permanent population of the city, town
or village in which the project is located is likely to grow by
more than five percent"
MR. RUEL-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Okay. "The municipal budget for capital
expenditures or operating services will increase by more than 5%
per year as a result of this project."
MR. RUEL-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD- "Proposed action will conflict with officially
adopted plans or goals."
MR. BREWER-No.
MR. RUEL-No.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
MRS. LABOMBARD-"Proposed action will cause a change in the density
of land use. II
MR. BREWER-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD- "The proposed action will replace or eliminate
existing facilities, structures or areas of historic importance to
the community?"
MR. BREWER-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD-liThe development will create a demand for additional
community services (e.g. schools, police and fire, etc.)n
MR. BREWER-No.
MR. RUEL-Yes.
MR. BREWER-No.
MRS. LABOMBARD-We're going to have more policemen and fire trucks
because of this and more schools?
MR. RUEL-Thirty homes, it will have an impact on schools.
MR. BREWER- I don't see how it's going to, Roger.
approved a $14. million budget to add on to the school.
think this really has a bearing on.
They just
So I don't
MR. STARK-This is Lake George, Tim.
MRS. LABOMBARD-This is Queensbury. "Proposed action will set an
important precedent for future projects II, and "The proposed action
will create or eliminate emploYment."
MR. BREWER-No. It may create if it does anything.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. "Is there or is there likely to be public
controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts?"
MR. RUEL-No.
MR. BREWER-The point being that there was no public controversy
related to the environmental impact, not that there wasn't
controversy.
MR. RUEL-In other areas.
MR. CICCONE-Are you going to get to that, to the point where the
public is not happy with the road going through there?
MRS. LABOMBARD-That is it, basically.
MR. BREWER-We've been there. Is that a significant environmental
impact, putting that road through there? I guess that's the
question we're asked of SEQRA.
MRS. LABOMBARD-I just read all the points. I've just read
everything. The only one that we said yes on was the original one,
the very first one where it was "Will the proposed action result in
a physical change to the project site?" And we said small to
moderate.
MR. NACE-Cathy, before you continue, you may want to go back and
look at agricultural again, okay. This is one of the few
subdivisions in the Town we've come across where the land use is
presently agricultural. You may want to just say small to
moderate.
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
MR. BREWER-Is that going to significantly change the character of
that, Tom, though?
MR. NACE-It's a change, a small change.
MR. MACEWAN-But SEQRA, the land use isn't agricultural. It's SR-1.
MR. BREWER-Well, it is and it isn't.
MR. NACE-The zoning isn't, but the existing use is agricultural.
MR. MACEWAN-The SEQRA, at the time we did the SEQRA for the, at the
time the Town Board did it for the petition change, didn't they,
didn't they enter it at that point?
MR. NACE-That's true. You're right.
MR. STARK-Now at the end, instead of saying you waive the rest,
you've got to say.
MRS. LABOMBARD-Right. Well, what I would like to do right now is
move for a SEQRA negative declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 1-1997, Introduced by Catherine LaBombard who moved
for its adoption, seconded by George Stark:
WHEREAS, there
application for:
is presently before the Planning
CERRONE BUILDERS, INC., and
Board
an
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed
project and Planning Board action is subject to review under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED:
1. No federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved:
NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is unlisted in
the Department of Environmental Conservation Regulations
implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and
the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the
applicant.
5. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas
of environmental concern and having considered the criteria
for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section
617.11 of the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules and
Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that
the action about to be undertaken by this Board will have no
significant environmental effect and the Chairman of the
Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and
file as may be necessary a statement of non-significance or a
negative declaration that may be required by law.
Duly adopted this 1st day of April, 1997, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Ruel, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Paling, Mr. West
MR. STARK-Hold up on the motion for a second here.
MR. BREWER-We had no outstanding engineering comments?
MRS. LABOMBARD-None.
MR. STARK-None.
MR. MACEWAN-The only condition maybe we want to think about
attaching to it is that they use access through Mrs. Oudekerk's
property for construction.
MR. BREWER-I don't think that's really got to be a condition. He
agreed to do that. She offered to do it.
MR. STARK-AI said he'd go in that way. Why would he say it if he's
not going to do it. She's trying to be a good neighbor. That's
the way ~ read it.
MRS. LABOMBARD-And they are, too.
MR. BREWER-Do we have anYmore comment, George, before we make a
motion?
MR. STARK-I'm waiting for George, here. Even though the public
hearing is closed. I'll let everybody have a say.
MR. NACE-Can I bring something up while that's transpiring?
MR. STARK-Sure.
MR. NACE-I talked to Jim Martin today requesting that since we got
carried over with the Preliminary past the submission date for
Final for the month, and since there's no public hearing that has
to be announced with Final, requesting that we be put on the agenda
for April for Final, and get the plans in ASAP for you, which
really are the same plans you've looked at.
MR. STARK-The April 15th meeting.
MR. NACE-The second meeting would give us a chance.
MR. STARK-There might not be a second meeting.
MRS. LABOMBARD-We may only have one.
MR. NACE-Okay.
MR. BREWER-When would you have it in?
MR. NACE-We could have it in, this is Tuesday, probably by
Thursday.
MR. BREWER-So we can extend it until Thursday.
MR. STARK-Yes. I don't see where Levandowski would have a problem
with that.
MR. NACE-The plans are going to be the same. All we do is take
Phase II and put it in the background, and put Phase I heavy.
MR. STARK-You're not buried this month.
MR. HILTON-No, plus we have the option of the second week, which I
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(Queensbury Planning Board Meeting 4/1/97)
think is going to be free. I think we're only going to have one
meeting, at the first meeting, we could have a second meeting,
should we need to accommodate.
MR. STARK-So you want the Final the second?
MR. NACE-Whenever you can schedule it for us in April.
MR. STARK-Okay. Do you have any other comments at all? George,
what was the comment from the public?
MR. HILTON-Well, there was some comment that the current state of
this property, it's an open field, it may be a home or nesting or
feeding ground for some geese, and a member of the public was
concerned, wanted to make sure that you addressed that in your
SEQRA review.
MR. STARK-It's not an endangered species or anything?
MR. BREWER-Do we have assurance from the developer that if there is
such a thing that he'll take care?
MR. NACE-The geese are not on the Federal Endangered Species list.
There are obviously cornfields there that they use.
MR. BREWER-You won't crush them or rollover them or anything.
MR. NACE-Yes.
MR. NACE-The Health Department people were tempted to shoot a
couple when we were up.
MR. STARK-Okay. Tim, do you want to make a motion, then?
MR. BREWER-I'll make a motion.
MOTION TO APPROVE PRELIMINARY STAGE SUBDIVISION NO. 1-1997
CERRONE BUILDERS, Introduced by Timothy Brewer who moved for its
adoption, seconded by George Stark:
Duly adopted this 1st day of April, 1997, by the following vote:
MR. RUEL-No, and the reason is that I don't believe we're being
responsive to citizen's wishes in this case.
AYES: Mr. MacEwan, Mrs. LaBombard, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stark
NOES: Mr. Ruel
ABSENT: Mr. West, Mr. Paling
MR. BREWER-Now we have to make a motion for the submission date?
MR. STARK-I don't think we do on that?
MR. MACEWAN-No, we don't have to.
MR. STARK-I was under the impression that we only had one meeting.
MR. HILTON-Right. We have an open date.
MR. STARK-He'll be able to get it in so it could be done on that
first date.
MR. BREWER-All right. Well, it's so noted that we'll give him
until Thursday at four o'clock or four thirty to get it in.
MR. NACE-Okay. Thank you.
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MR. STARK-Okay. George, do you have anything else?
MR. HILTON-I just have one more comment. The last couple of
meetings, we've been discussing the possible land dedication for
Rich Schermerhorn to the Town in lieu of recreation fees.
MR. STARK-That's being discussed tonight in the Recreation
Commission, isn't it?
MR. HILTON-Right, and I'm just bringing it to the Board's attention
that we expect some comment by the first meeting in April, first
Planning Board meeting in April, just to make you aware of what's
going on.
MR. STARK-We'll get their recommendation to us, and then we'll make
our recommendation to the Town Board at the first meeting in April,
then, right?
MR. HILTON-Yes, exactly.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Robert Paling, Chairman
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