11-16-2021
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
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NOVEMBER 16, 2021
INDEX
Site Plan No. 51-2021 Brett & Pamela West (Main House) 2.
FURTHER TABLING Tax Map No. 226.15-1-17
Site Plan No. 52-2021 Brett & Pamela West 3.
FURTHER TABLING Tax Map No. 226.15-1-16
Discussion Item 7-2021 Richard & Lisa Spoerl 3.
TOWN BOARD RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 295.20-1-4.2
CONSENT TO TOWN BOARD AS LEAD AGENT
Site Plan No. 69-2021 Judith Dooley 8.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 239.20-1-8
Site Plan No. 70-2021 Francis & Erin Steinbach 10.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 226.19-2-18
Site Plan No. 73-2021 William Mason 12.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 239.8-1-44
Site Plan No. 72-2021 Joseph Gross 15.
Tax Map No. 309.17-1-17.2
Site Plan No. 71-2021 Hoffman Development Corp. 20.
Tax Map No. 296.17-1-42
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTH’S MINUTES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
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NOVEMBER 16, 2021
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
STEPHEN TRAVER, CHAIRMAN
DAVID DEEB, SECRETARY
JOHN SHAFER
BRAD MAGOWAN
MICHAEL VALENTINE
JAMIE WHITE
MICHAEL DIXON, ALTERNATE
MEMBERS ABSENT
CHRIS HUNSINGER
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. TRAVER-Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
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meeting for Tuesday, November 16, 2021. This is our first meeting for November and our 22 meeting
thus far for 2021. If you have a cell phone or other electronic device, if you would either turn it off or turn
the ringer off so we won’t be interrupted by that in case it goes off. In the event of an emergency, please
make note of the illuminated exit signs. Those are the emergency exits. Let’s see. We do have a couple
of items with public hearings at the latter part of our agenda this evening and we will be noting those
public hearings as they arise and we’ll be taking public comment. We do have a couple of administrative
items, and before we get to our regular agenda, I want to draw the Board’s attention to the draft of the 2022
Town calendar, which of course includes Planning Board meeting dates and if possible we would like to
approve those. As has been our practice for the last couple of years, we have put a draft third Planning
Board meeting during what we have come to call the growing season in the spring, March, April, and May
because we tend to have a lot of projects that time of the year and that we tend to use those agendas when
necessary, but has everyone had an opportunity to see the calendar?
MR. SHAFER-No.
MR. TRAVER-Well, we can wait. We’ll be meeting again on Thursday. Perhaps you could look at it
before Thursday and we’ll adopt the calendar at that time. So we’ll move on from that. I want to bring
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another item up under administrative items, and that is next month on December 16 we have an
opportunity to receive the annual MS-4 training from Soil and Water, and Laura has suggested the date,
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the first meeting in December which is the 16, and if we just arrive a little bit early.
MRS. MOORE-That’s the second meeting.
MR. TRAVER-I’m sorry?
MRS. MOORE-Is it the second meeting?
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MR. TRAVER-I thought the 16 was the first meeting. I’m sorry. You’re right. That is the second
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meeting. Okay. So the second meeting of December, the final meeting of the year actually, December 16.
If we can arrive at 6:15, we will take about a half an hour or so of that annual training, and I’d like to make
a motion.
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RESOLUTION FOR TIME CHANGE FOR DECEMBER 16, 2021 PLANNING BOARD MEETING
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MOTION TO ARRIVE AT 6:15 P.M. FOR THE DECEMBER 16, 2021 PLANNING BOARD
MEETING, Introduced by Stephen Traver who moved for its adoption, seconded by Michael Valentine:
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November, 2021, by the following vote:
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-All right. Thank you. Next we move to the approval of minutes, and we have the minutes
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from September 21 and September 28 of 2021.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 21, 2021
September 28, 2021
MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES OF
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SEPTEMBER 21 AND SEPTEMBER 28, 2021, Introduced by David Deeb who moved for its adoption,
seconded by John Shafer:
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November, 2021, by the following vote:
AYES: Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-All right. Thank you, and we also have a request to table Site Plan 51-2021. This is the
West house and guest house, Site Plan 51 and 52 of 2021 to the December meeting.
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM:
TABLE SITE PLAN 51-2021 WEST MAIN HOUSE AND SITE PLAN 52-2021 WEST GUEST HOUSE
TO DECEMBER 16, 2021
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So the application has to go back through the Zoning Board of Appeals which would occur
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on December 15. So that’s why this application could be tabled to the December 16rh meeting.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right. Any discussion or questions about that tabling?
MR. SHAFER-I have a question. Laura, in the previous iteration that project got disapproved by the APA.
Do we have any expectation that that would happen in this case as well?
MRS. MOORE-I don’t know at this time and I haven’t heard anything from the APA and typically they
don’t provide a comment too early on.
MR. SHAFER-It will go to them after we approve it?
MRS. MOORE-Right. Only, it’ll only go to the APA if the Zoning Board approves it. It’s not, it’s
dependent on the Zoning Board. Those are the only items that are provided to the APA because we have
an approved land use plan.
MR. TRAVER-Any other discussion? Let’s see, did you make a motion?
MR. DEEB-I will.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you.
RESOLUTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 51-2021 BRETT & PAMELA WEST (MAIN HOUSE)
Applicant proposes to demo the existing home and construct a new home of 5,722 sq. ft. footprint with
patio area of 1,800 sq. ft. The new floor area is 9,199 sq. ft. and a 500 sq. ft. barn is also proposed adding to
the floor area. The project includes site work for new landscaping of shoreline and residential house,
septic, stormwater management, driveway area, a covered walkway between the main home and a
proposed home on the adjoining parcel. The applicant proposes a 375 sq. ft. porte-cochere and an attached
garage. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 & 179-6-065 of the Zoning Ordinance, new floor area in a CEA and
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
hard surfacing within 50 ft. of shoreline shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval. Variances:
Relief is sought for setbacks, height, permeability, second garage and floor area.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN 51-2021 BRETT & PAMELA WEST (MAIN HOUSE). Introduced
by David Deeb who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brad Magowan.
Tabled until the December 16, 2021 Planning Board meeting with information due by November 15, 2021.
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-All right. Thank you, and next we have a discussion item.
MRS. MOORE-I’m sorry. I’m going to ask. I apologize. Did you say both Site Plan 51?
MR. DEEB-I only did one.
MRS. MOORE-You only did one. So we should do the second one.
MR. TRAVER-I’m sorry. I didn’t notice that.
RESOLUTION TABLING SP # 52-2021 BRETT & PAMELA WEST
Applicant proposes construction of a new home with a 3,741 sq. ft. of floor area and 2,990 sq. ft. footprint.
The home is two story with an attached garage. The project includes a covered walkway from the home to
the proposed adjoining home. Site work includes stormwater management with a rain garden, new site
plantings, new septic and new line for drinking water. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 & 179-6-065 of the
Zoning Ordinance, new floor area in a CEA and hard surfacing within 50 ft. of shoreline shall be subject to
Planning Board review and approval. Variance: Relief is sought for setbacks, permeability, floor area and
access from adjoining lot.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN 52-2021 BRETT & PAMELA WEST (GUEST HOUSE). Introduced
by David Deeb who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brad Magowan.
Tabled until the December 16, 2021 Planning Board meeting with information due by November 15, 2021.
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-All right, and next under Administrative Items is Richard and Lisa Spoerl. This is a
Discussion Item 7-2021.
(RECOMMENDATION) DISCUSSION ITEM 7-2021 SEQR TYPE: TYPE I (TOWN BOARD).
RICHARD & LISA SPOERL OWNER(S): SAME AS APPLICANT. ZONING: 311. LOCATION:
FARR LANE. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO AMEND THE APPROVED APRIL 12, 2000 INDIAN
RIDGE PUD. TO COVERT EXISTING 1 ACRE PARCEL 295.20-1-4.2 FROM A COMMERCIAL
DESIGNATED LOT TO A RESIDENTIAL LOT. THE PARCEL OF LAND IS THE LAST LOT
WITHIN THE PUD AND WAS SOLD IN A TAX AUCTION; THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO
DEVELOP THE PROPERTY FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES. THE INDIAN RIDGE PUD WAS
APPROVED WITH 75 RESIDENTIAL LOTS WHERE THE APPLICANT PROPOSES ONE
ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL LOT. PER SECTION 179-12-060, CHANGES IN PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENTS (PUD), THE PLANNING BOARD DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT THE
MODIFIED IS STILL IN KEEPING WITH THE INTENT OF THE LOCAL LAW CREATING THE
PUD BY NOTIFICATION TO THE TOWN BOARD. SEQRA CONSENT FOR TOWN BOARD TO
ACT AS THE LEAD AGENCY. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 51-1999 (PUD). WARREN CO.
REFERRAL: (TOWN BOARD) SITE INFORMATION: INDIAN RIDGE PUD. LOT SIZE: 1
ACRE. TAX MAP NO. 295.20-1-4.2. SECTION: 179-12 PUD.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
RICHARD SPOERL, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So at this time the applicant has approached the Town Board which had referred this back
to the Planning Board for a recommendation. The Town Board is also asking to be Lead Agency. It’s not
really a project. It’s actually really more of a paperwork effort at this time where they would like to change
one lot that was designated as commercial to a residential lot.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MRS. MOORE-I don’t know if there was anything else that you wanted to add.
MR. SPOERL-I was just going to answer questions if you had any questions.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. If you would please come up and state your name for the record, introduce yourself
for our minutes and tell us about your project.
MR. SPOERL-I’m Richard Spoerl. I live on Aviation Road now. This is a request to change a commercial
lot from Indian Ridge PUD to a residential. It would increase the number of residential lots approved from
75 to 76. The property was in the developer’s name and he held that through the whole development of
that project. At the end of the project that lot was foreclosed by the County due to taxes. So that was set
up as a community center back in 2000 in the agreement and through the Town Board in meetings and
discussions starting I think in ’96 actually when it was someone else’s property. It went back and forth as
to whether there or not there was going to be duplexes in there or common areas, parks, etc. and the
agreement had 75 single family lots and this commercial lot, the lot behind it it went to the School, and
some areas that were donated for Rush Pond area and things like that. So this lot was earmarked for, as a
community center, thinking like a child care, a daycare, medical facility, deli, a rehab center, something like
that was the thought, and the discussions that that community would be aging in place. Well that
community is not aging in place. They’re young and vibrant. We actually lived in that neighborhood at
189 Farr Lane until our kids graduated school and we downsized. . We sold to a young family and there’s
still kids that play hockey and are very active in there. So when this lot went up on the auction block, one
of our thoughts was that we would buy it and hold it and take the risk that we could or could not build a
house on it, but we didn’t want anybody going in, putting a Chik Fil A thing, traffic or something like that.
All the uses that are listed in the PUD are nearby. Moreau Health was on Manor Drive and that’s now
incorporated into West Mountain Building 2. We have a deli, in the back of Stewart’s you have
professional offices. We have daycare. Everything in that community that was labeled for that site is
there. So we wanted to take this lot that is essentially deemed unbuildable, do a residential lot so we could
build a house on there. We talked to probably 60% of the community of that neighborhood in person and
there’s other ones that are part of the, I guess they started a Facebook group. They started a Facebook
group they’re all in. We haven’t found anyone in opposition yet. So the first step of this was to see if we
could change it to a residential use and go from there to meet the requirements of the rest of the PUD.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Questions, comments from members of the Board?
MR. VALENTINE-So is this coming to the Planning Board for an advisory opinion to the Town Board?
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. They would be Lead Agency, or they’re asking to be Lead Agency. So we would,
Number One, we would accept their establishment of Lead Agency and they’re also asking us for our
thoughts, our recommendation on the question being posed by the applicant.
MR. VALENTINE-Is there governing regulations through an HOA?
MR. SPOERL-There is no HOA in that neighborhood.
MR. VALENTINE-Nothing to change with governing documents.
MR. SPOERL-No, there is not.
MR. SHAFER-Will we eventually see the Site Plan?
MRS. MOORE-Most likely not if it’s just a residential unit.
MR. SHAFER-So there’ll be no Code violations?
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MRS. MOORE-Not that I’m aware of. If the applicant were to subdivision as this lot could be eventually
based on the lot size allowed, that would come back to this Board, but at this time I don’t believe that
that’s the case. I think there’s just one single family dwelling proposed.
MR. VALENTINE-Is there a demolition involved? Is there an existing building on there?
MRS. MOORE-No.
MR. SPOERL-No.
MR. VALENTINE-So there was never a community?
MR. SPOERL-No.
MR. TRAVER-You made comment in your initial presentation that this was not a considered a buildable
lot?
MR. SPOERL-Excuse me?
MR. TRAVER-Did I misunderstand you or did you say at some point this was not a buildable lot?
MR. SPOERL-At this point it’s not listed as a buildable lot. It’s assessment is $9,000. So it’s used and
buildable. It’s viability as a commercial lot is negligible.
MR. TRAVER-But it’s not unbuildable from an engineering standpoint.
MR. SPOERL-No. Definitely you can build on it.
MR. TRAVER-I’m sorry. Usually when we hear unbuildable lot it refers to wetlands or steep slopes or
whatever, which I was not aware was on this location. So I was a little confused by that comment. Okay.
So, Laura, the procedure for us, then, would be to, Number One, to accept the Town Board as Lead Agency,
and then, Number Two, to make any comments or recommendations we would have for the Town Board
on this item. Correct?
MRS. MOORE-Right. It’s either provide a positive recommendation or a negative recommendation.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Well let’s take it one step at a time. Does anyone have any objection to the Town
Board assuming Lead Agency on this? Okay. So, let’s see, do we have a draft resolution to that effect?
MR. DEEB-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Why don’t we do that first.
MR. DEEB-All right. We’ll do that.
RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO TOWN BOARD AS LEAD AGENT RICHARD & LISA SPOERL
Whereas the applicant proposes to amend the approved April 12, 2000 Indian Ridge PUD. To convert
existing 1 acre parcel 295.20-1-4.2 from a commercial designated lot to a residential lot. The parcel of land
is the last lot within the PUD and was sold in a tax auction; the applicant intends to develop the property
for residential purposes. The Indian Ridge PUD was approved with 75 residential lots where the applicant
proposes one additional residential lot. Per section 179-12-060, changes in Planned Unit Developments
(PUD), the Planning Board determines whether or not the modified is still keeping with the intent of the
local law creating the PUD by notification to the Town Board. SEQRA consent for Town Board to act as
the lead agency.
MOTION TO CONSENT TO THE QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD AS THE LEAD AGENCY FOR
CHANGE OF ZONE FOR THE RICHARD & LISA SPOERL/INDIAN RIDGE PUD. Introduced by
David Deeb, who moved for its adoption;
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Motion seconded by John Shafer. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. TRAVER-All right. So next we get to the request itself, and the change of this one lot from the
Planned Unit Development as originally designed to be that of a residential lot. How would the Board
members feel about that? Does anyone have any initial objection to that?
MR. VALENTINE-Any deed restrictions that exist on this lot?
MR. SPOERL-There are. There are setbacks that are, I guess, not as constraining as the residential lots,
but we’re far going to exceed those. I think the side setbacks are 15 feet instead of a total of 30 minimum
of 10. Twenty is still on the back and thirty on the front, but those setbacks are not going to be approached.
Also there’s some leniencies or some availabilities f that lot for like signage and things like that that we’re
not going to need that. So I would suggest maybe if we do change it that we converted that to whatever
the rest of the residential lot restrictions are.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, well, Laura, if you could clarify that. If this were to change from commercial to
residential, the requirements would change as well, right, setbacks?
MRS. MOORE-It goes with the property itself. So it’s not necessarily going to change the setbacks. So
it’s the property itself. So I agree that as part of your recommendation it maybe a good recommendation
to include that it revert back to a residential requirement.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. Okay. Good.
MR. SHAFER-Question. Is the residential code for a PUD different from a conventional residential code?
MR. VALENTINE-Well, yes.
MR. SPOERL-As far as?
MR. SHAFER-Setbacks and anything else that’s governing.
MR. VALENTINE-It a has to be specific to the PUD.
MR. MAGOWAN-That’s what the PUD will do. They can set all the limits.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. So if we include in our referral to the Town Board a recommendation that should this
ultimately be approved, that the conditions, including setbacks and all the other conditions for this lot be
changed to residential, standardized.
MR. SHAFER-My question was whether the standard residential code is different from what was agreed
to in this PUD.
MR. VALENTINE-This man just said that they are.
MR. SPOERL-I see what you’re asking. You’re asking is a lot in Indian Ridge have different setbacks than
say Smoke Ridge or some other, Burnt Hills or something like that. I wouldn’t know that. I don’t know.
MR. TRAVER-Again, we could include in our recommendation that they be standard, they could adopt
the codes for Town wide.
MR. SHAFER-Consistent with the other 75 lots.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, exactly.
MR. SPOERL-And the side setback is the only difference. The maximum heights, the setbacks, things like
that, they’re all the same, except for that one side lot.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. DIXON-This property that you’re proposing, it’s one acre, and the resolution we have in front of us
has the condition of a minimum lot size of two acres. Is that going to be an issue.
MR. DEEB-I noticed that, too.
MR. DIXON-Is that a concern that we should address now?
MR. MAGOWAN-That’s what the PUD does. The Town will make those decisions.
MR. TRAVER-The Town as Lead Agency is going to have to look at the environmental concerns and as
they change this to residential, that would be one of the factors that they would ultimately consider.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. VALENTINE-But that would be something, as Mike points out, it might be something worth in a
resolution as an advisory to the Town Board that they consider that.
MRS. MOORE-I apologize. I don’t think that should be in there.
MR. DEEB-Take it out?
MRS. MOORE-Take it out.
MR. DIXON-So you’re just testing us.
MRS. MOORE-I am testing you.
MR. DEEB-I saw that, too. I had it highlighted.
MR. MAGOWAN-I think it’s a great project. It’s a nice lot.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So no minimum lot size, Laura, is what you’re saying.
MRS. MOORE-Correct.
MR. SPOERL-There is a minimum lot size in that PUD of .4 acres.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, but this is already an existing defined lot.
MR. DEEB-Correct. This is an acre lot.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MRS. MOORE-Thank you. I did not catch that one.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Anything else? Any other concerns or recommendations, discussion items that we
want to forward?
MR. DIXON-I just want to throw out a comment. So that’s all part of the runway that used to be out there
as well, too. Part of that property probably has old parts of the runway to the airport that used to be out
there.
MR. SPOERL-I lived out there and there were some things out there I wondered what they were. That
would make sense, but I don’t know exactly.
MR. DIXON-Pretty much the whole school was.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. MAGOWAN-The old airport.
MR. DEEB-I remember the runway, the airport runway.
MR. DIXON-Interesting history out there.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So we have a draft referral.
RECOMMENDATION RE: TOWN BOARD RECOMMENDATION RE: RICHARD & LISA SPOERL
MOTION TO PROVIDE A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION FOR CHANGE OF ZONE FOR THE
RICHARD & LISA SPOERL/INDIAN RIDGE PUD. Introduced by David Deeb, who moved for its
adoption;
Said lot to revert to the residential zoning requirements per the PUD.
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Motion seconded by Jamie White. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-All right. Thank you. Now we move to the next section of our agenda which is under
Recommendations to the Zoning Board of Appeals. The first item is Judith Dooley, Site Plan 69-2021,
SEQR Type II.
PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS:
SITE PLAN NO. 69-2021 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. JUDITH DOOLEY. OWNER(S): SAME AS
APPLICANT. ZONING: WR. LOCATION: 2964 STATE ROUTE 9L. APPLICANT PROPOSES
A NEW DECK CONFIGURATION FOR THE UPPER, MAIN LEVEL LANDING AREA FACING
THE SHORE. THE PREVIOUS DECK SYSTEM IS 305 SQ. FT. MAIN FLOOR, 156 SQ. FT.
LANDING/DECK, AND 15 SQ. FT. STAIRS FOR A TOTAL OF 476 SQ. FT. PROPOSED DECKING
IS 60 SQ. FT. UPPER DECK, 300 SQ. FT. MAIN FLOOR, 24.5 SQ. FT. LANDING AND 38 SQ. FT.
STAIRS FOR A TOTAL OF 422.5 SQ. FT. THE EXISTING HOME’S FOOTPRINT OF 1,141 SQ. FT.
REMAINS, ONLY DECK CONSTRUCTION CHANGES. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040,
179-13-010 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, HARD SURFACING WITHIN 50 FEET OF THE
SHORELINE AND EXPANSION OF A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE SHALL BE SUBJECT
TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF IS SOUGHT FOR
SETBACKS AND EXPANSION OF A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE. CROSS REFERENCE:
AST 355-2019 BOATHOUSE & SUNDECK, AV 73-2021. WARREN CO. REFERRAL: NOVEMBER
2021. SITE INFORMATION: APA, CEA, LGPC. LOT SIZE: .16 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 239.20-
1-8. SECTION: 179-3-040, 179-13-010.
JUDITH DOOLEY, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So the applicant proposes a new deck configuration for the upper main level landing area
facing the shore. The previous deck system is 305 square feet, 156 square feet of landing or deck and 15
square feet of stairs for a total of 476 square feet. The proposed deck for the upper level is 60 square feet.
The main level is 300 square feet, a change to a 24.5 square foot landing and a 38 square foot stairs for a
total of 422.5. The stairs will go down to ground level. There are no other changes proposed on the site.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. DOOLEY-Good evening.
MR. TRAVER-Would you state your name for the record.
MS. DOOLEY-Judith Dooley.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Tell us about your project.
MS. DOOLEY-It is a house, and the deck was built we think in the 1980’s and it was not built with treated
lumber. So it is deteriorating and we would like to replace it.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, and we see with the photographs that you enclosed with us, you can see the
deterioration in the wood. So you’re actually, the total of what you’re proposing would actually be a slight
reduction in square footage of the deck. Correct?
MS. DOOLEY-Yes. This deck has had many lives that we’ve seen through old photographs. There used
to be lots of different levels and apparently they called one part the birdcage. There was a round section.
There were parts that trees went through, and we really just want to simplify this deck, because the deck
is the way we get out of the house. There’s sliders and we kind of need a deck to get out and then stairs
down to the water.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, and what you’re here for tonight is because you’re going to be going before the Zoning
Board of Appeals for the variances that you need. All right. So this evening what we’re looking at is a
referral to the ZBA with regard to the variance which is setbacks and expansion of a non-conforming
structure. Questions, comments from members of the Board?
MR. MAGOWAN-You’re pretty much sitting on the same footprint and making the deck smaller.
Correct?
MS. DOOLEY-Correct.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. MAGOWAN-That’s what I thought you said.
MS. WHITE-So it’s not an expansion of a non-conforming.
MR. MAGOWAN-It’s a replacement of,
MRS. MOORE-Right. So it is, technically, if they’re removing it completely, which they are, and
reconstructing it, that would be an expansion of a non-conforming structure. Because the existing, yes,
it’s a technicality.
MS. WHITE-Sorry.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, it’s a bit of a technicality.
MR. MAGOWAN-It sounds worse than it really is.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, let’s hope so, right.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, I don’t have a problem with it.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. SHAFER-The setback. Will the new deck be closer or further away from the lake than the old one?
MS. DOOLEY-It will be farther away from the lake because it’s going to be a little bit smaller.
MR. DEEB-The setbacks are all the same or less.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. It’s sort of a pre-existing, non-conforming structure basically. Okay, and the other
question of course we normally deal with with these projects is the landscaping and the shoreline
buffering. We do have some photographs that were included in the packet that seem to show considerable
vegetation along the shoreline. Could you describe the shoreline buffering, plantings and so on that are
protecting the lake from the stormwater runoff and so on.
MS. DOOLEY-What is there now is just what’s in there. We just took over ownership of the house just
in January, and we haven’t touched any of the landscaping. So it’s just kind of brush and trees. That’s
what’s there now, and until this deck is done we have no plans for any kind of landscaping changes.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right. Any other questions, comments from members of the Board? Do folks
feel comfortable moving forward with a recommendation? Okay. I’m not hearing any specific concerns
going to the ZBA. So I think we can go ahead with a motion to that effect.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: AV # 73-2021 JUDITH DOOLEY
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes a new deck
configuration for the upper, main level landing area facing the shore. The previous deck system is 305 sq.
ft. main floor, 156 sq. ft. landing/deck, and 15 sq. ft. stairs for a total of 476 sq. ft.. Proposed decking is 60
sq. ft. upper deck, 300 sq. ft. main floor, 24.5 sq. ft. landing, and 38 sq. ft. stairs for a total of 422.5 sq. ft..
The existing home’s footprint of 1,151 sq. ft. remains, only deck construction changes. Pursuant to Chapter
179-3-040, 179-13-010 of the Zoning Ordinance, hard surfacing within 50 feet of the shoreline and
expansion of a non-conforming structure shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval. Variance:
Relief is sought for setbacks and expansion of a non-conforming structure.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning Board to
provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning
Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the variance
application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and surrounding
community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 73-2021 JUDITH DOOLEY.
Introduced by David Deeb who moved for its adoption, and
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse impacts
that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
th
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
10
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
AYES: Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-You’re off to the ZBA.
MS. DOOLEY-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-The next item also under Recommendations is Francis & Erin Steinbach, Site Plan
Modification 70-2021.
SITE PLAN MODIFICATION 70-2021 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. FRANCIS & ERIN STEINBACH.
OWNER(S): SAME AS APPLICANT. ZONING: WR. LOCATION: 211 ASSEMBLY POINT
DRIVE. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO RAISE AN EXISTING 1,352 SQ. FT. HOME FOOTPRINT
TO INSTALL A FULL BASEMENT WITH A FOOTPRINT OF 1,550 SQ. FT. THE PROJECT
INCLUDES A REMOVAL OF A 444 SQ. FT. REAR DOCK TO CONSTRUCT A 356 SQ. FT. DECK;
SITE HAS PREVIOUS APPROVAL FOR 154 SQ. FT. ADDITION. THE FRONT DECK OF 22 SQ.
FT. IS TO BE REMOVED TO CONSTRUCT A 458 SQ. FT. DECK. THE EXISTING FLOOR AREA
OF 1,949 SQ. FT. INCREASED TO 2,786 SQ. FT. SITE PLAN FOR NEW FLOOR AREA I A CEA
SHALL BE SUBJECT TO SITE PLAN REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF IS
SOUGHT FOR SETBACKS, PERMEABILITY, FLOOR AREA, AND EXPANSION OF A NON-
CONFORMING STRUCTURE. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 38-1995 ADDITION, SEP-0657-2019,
SP 15-2020, AV 74-2021. WARREN CO. REFERRAL: NOVEMBER 2021. SITE INFORMATION:
APA, LGPC, CEA. LOT SIZE: .22 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 226.19-2-18. SECTION: 179-3-040, 179-
6-065.
FRANCIS STEINBACH, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So the applicant proposes to raise an existing house and to install a full basement with a
footprint of 1,550 square feet. The project includes removal of a 444 square foot rear deck to construct a
356 square foot deck. The site has a previous approval for 154 square foot addition. The front deck of 220
square feet is to be removed to construct a 458 square foot square foot deck. The existing floor area is
1,949 square feet increased to 2,786 square feet. The relief is for setbacks to the north property line and
then also for the front deck, south property line setbacks as well as the west property line setbacks and I
believe that was the front setback, and then the house foundation is to be 22.2 feet from the front, 3.2 feet
from the south, 2.4 feet from the north, and that’s due to the installation of the full basement. The floor
area relief requested, or the maximum allowed is 2,010 square feet. The permeability is being decreased to
67% where 75% is required.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Can you come up to the table, introduce yourself and tell us
about your project please.
MR. STEINBACH-My name is Francis Steinbach and basically what we’re doing is we’re lifting the house
and staying within the same footprint and just putting a new foundation under it. The existing structure
has failed. The back wall of the house has caved in and they built a second wall inside that. In fact the
house doesn’t even have a foundation under it at present. It’s just my wife and myself living in this house.
We plan on retiring there. It’s our dream home, if you would.
MR. MAGOWAN-Floating dream home.
MR. STEINBACH-Floating dream home, but, yes, so we’re just trying to correct things and the reason why
rd
we’re trying to put a full foundation under it is right now about a 1/3 of the house is foundation and the
rest is crawl space, and of course as I get older it’s going to be a little difficult to crawl underneath and
make any changes or repairs to the house. So that’s why we’re looking to do that. Also we have, we’re
not putting any access from the upper level to the basement. It is only for storage, storage and parking.
Right now we only have two small spots in front of the house for parking. The only other parking that
there is is on Sunset Lane. Sunset Lane is only six months out of the year. They don’t want you parking
on that road during the winter months. So it really restricts us from having friends and family over because
of the limited parking. I don’t know what else I can tell you . I’ll leave it up to you to ask any questions.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. Thank you. So tonight what we’re going to be doing is looking at the variance
requests, not the site plan review per se.
MR. STEINBACH-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. TRAVER-Because we’re making a referral to the Zoning Board of Appeals who you’ll be chatting with
tomorrow evening.
MR. STEINBACH-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-So it appears from the variances, and correct me if I’m wrong, but since you’re not changing
the basic footprint, the various setbacks are really, they’re pre-existing and they’re not changing. Correct?
So what you’re doing by adding another floor in effect to the house, in addition to a repair and doing the
repairs, is you’re increasing the floor area ratio, because you’re adding that square footage to the overall
size. Okay. Questions, comments from members of the Board?
MR. MAGOWAN-I have one. This house looks familiar. Were you in for?
MR. STEINBACH-I was here last year. Yes, for the expansion. AJ Architecture did the design or did all
the paperwork for us and they did all the paperwork for us this time as well.
MR. MAGOWAN-It looks nice. I know because it was in the front of the house, and then a little something
on the back.
MR. STEINBACH-Right. What we were doing is we were building an 11 x 14.
MR. TRAVER-Like a mudroom.
MR. STEINBACH-In the back, yes, for a laundry and things like that because right now we have no, it’s
only four bedrooms upstairs and a kitchen and one bathroom. We were adding a second bath and a
laundry room upstairs because again as we get older we don’t like climbing up and down stairs to the
basement to do laundry.
MR. MAGOWAN-So basically you’re just raising the house.
MR. STEINBACH-Basically we’re raising the house and getting a foundation under it.
MR. MAGOWAN-How is the rock ledge?
MR. STEINBACH-Well, last year when we did the excavation, there were some big rocks, but nothing
major. I mean they dug up one that’s referred to as the potato rock, which is sitting in our backyard now.
MR. DEEB-I’m noticing here on the setback requirements, required 30, existing is 19.4 and the proposed is
10. From what I can see that is the only really change in setbacks from what you have now.
MR. STEINBACH-I believe so.
MR. DEEB-Is that because, when you raise it up?
MR. STEINBACH-We’re building up the front deck.
MR. DEEB-All right.
MR. MAGOWAN-It’s really the deck that’s.
MR. DEEB-And the permeability. The permeability is pretty hefty.
MR. DIXON-When you raise this house up, are you planning on changing the grade? It’s more of a site
plan question which we’d get into later on, but what I’m thinking in terms of do we approve a variance or
not, are you looking at changing the grading of the land? Anything you’re excavating.
MR. STEINBACH-Anything we’re excavating is basically going back the way that it was. When we lift
the house, Larman Brothers, they’re doing the lifting of the house.
MR. MAGOWAN-They’re a good outfit.
MR. STEINBACH-They are. They’ve been lifting homes for quite a few years, and Chris Crandall’s the
one that’s doing the excavation. Of course he’s familiar with the Point. He’s been out there for years.
They plan on going through the front of the house because they can’t do anything in the rear of the house
because we had to have the septic re-done within that year timeframe. That being said we can’t come
through the back anymore because the septic tank is there. Our leach field is there now and of course we
went with the enhanced system, the Claris system. So now we have two tanks back there. So there’s
really no place to put it. Now we’re restricted as for what we can do. Chris Crandall is going to have to
12
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
remove everything from the Point and then bring it back. So now we’re incurring additional costs because
we had to get the septic done in that timeframe.
MR. DIXON-I appreciate that explanation and we spent a great deal of time on the project last year.
MR. STEINBACH-Yes, and my wife and I are looking at additional costs, but we feel that it’s worth it
because we love it out there and, again, it’s our retirement home.
MR. DIXON-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Other questions, comments? With regard to the referral to the ZBA, do we have any
concerns or specific recommendations that we want to make? All right. I guess we’re ready for a motion.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: AV # 74-2021 FRANCIS & ERIN STEINBACH
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes to raise an existing 1,352
sq. ft. home footprint to install a full basement with a footprint of 1,550 sq. ft.. The project includes a
removal of a 444 sq. ft. rear dock to construct a 356 sq. ft. deck; site has previous approval for 154 sq. ft.
addition. The front deck of 220 sq. ft. is to be removed to construct a 458 sq. ft. deck. The existing floor
area of 1,949 sq. ft. increased to 2,786 sq. ft.. Site plan for new floor area in a CEA shall be subject to Planning
Board review and approval. Variance: Relief is sought for setbacks, permeability, floor area, and expansion
of a non-conforming structure.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning Board to
provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning
Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the variance
application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and surrounding
community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 70-2021 FRANCIS & ERIN
STEINBACH, Introduced by David Deeb who moved for its adoption, and
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse impacts
that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
th
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-You’re off to the ZBA.
MR. STEINBACH-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-The next item on our agenda is William Mason, Site Plan 73-2021. This is also for a
recommendation to the ZBA.
SITE PLAN NO. 73-2021 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. WILLIAM MASON. ZONING: WR.
LOCATION: 15 TUSCARORA DRIVE. APPLICANT PROPOSES A 768 SQ. FT. SECOND STORY
ADDITION TO AN EXISTING 768 SQ. FT. ONE STORY HOME. THE PROJECT INCLUDES A 16
SQ. FT. NEW PORCH LANDING ENTRY AND A SMALLER ACCESS LANDING TO THE
EXISTING PORCH. THE HOME HAS AN EXISTING ONE BEDROOM AND THE SECOND
FLOOR WILL ADD THREE MORE BEDROOMS.. THE PROJECT INCLUDES CONNECTION TO
THE TAKUNDEWIDE COMMUNITY SEPTIC AND WATER SUPPLY FROM THE LAKE.
PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040, 179-6-065, 179-13-010, SITE PLAN FOR AN EXPANSION OF
NON-CONFORMING AND A NEW FLOOR IN A CEA SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING
BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF IS SOUGHT FOR SETBACKS,
PERMEABILITY, FLOOR AREA, AND EXPANSION OF A NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURE.
WILLIAM MASON, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
13
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MRS. MOORE-So the applicant proposes a 768 square foot second story addition to the existing one story
home which is also 768 square feet. The project includes a 16 square foot porch landing area and a smaller
access landing to the existing porch. The home has an existing one bedroom and the second floor will add
three more bedrooms. Variance relief is sought for setbacks, floor area, and permeability and again this is
a project that’s located in the Takundewide development which has an HOA. There’s an existing 18.7 acres
in common area. In addition the master plan indicates the 18.7 acres is to be considered during the request
for a housing expansion.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. MASON-Good evening.
MR. TRAVER-So as opposed to the previous application where they’re adding a basement, you’re adding
a second floor, if I understand it correctly.
MR. MASON-I’m William Mason. I’m representing the applicant who’s Lisa Paplanus. Her husband
David has passed away so she’s on there I think because of the deed. Those of you who’ve been here a
while have seen very similar ones that we’ve done before. It’s in keeping with anything else that the owners
of Takundewide have done.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MASON-It’s simply adding a second story. The basement, there is no basement. It’s a crawl space,
full foundation, and they’re just adding, doubling the size by adding a second story, but it’s still a very small
building, 1500 square feet.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So the variance is for permeability, setback, floor area and expansion of a non-
conforming structure. Questions, comments from members of the Board?
MR. SHAFER-Somewhere in the papers we got it talked about the house being hooked up to the
homeowner’s leach field septic system.
MR. MASON-Yes.
MR. SHAFER-It is not now hooked up to that?
MR. MASON-This one, it’s one of the original, it was built in the early 60’s. I was trying to think, probably
I have it in here when the house was built. It’s got a, I’m a shamed to say it’s still got a metal septic tank
with an unknown drain field, but it’s far away from the lake. It’s like 400, almost 500 feet back from the
water I believe. So I don’t think there’s any concern and we’ve never had any problems with the septic
system failing, but it is old and in desperate need of doing something. It’s located right in the center of the
property, though. So to put in a system at this point it would have to be elevated with a good separation
distance. So they’ve agreed to join the community system which is not that far away. It’s a fairly easy dig
for her and they’ll be of course putting in, and I expect it would be a 1250 gallon concrete tank, but
whatever the Building Department sizes appropriately for this number of bedrooms and so on, that’s what
she’ll be putting in.
MR. SHAFER-Do we know how many other buildings there are in Takundewide that are not hooked up
to the HOA?
MR. MASON-There are currently eight buildings hooked up to it. Out of 32 homes there are, we are doing
work on it right now to figure out what the actual capacity is. It was designed originally for 11 homes, but
it was also designed for, I think it was 11 three bedroom homes and different people, we’ve got some two
bedroom homes hooked in and we’ve got some four bedroom homes hooked in and we to base it on that.
I’ve been talking with Tom Hutchins and he’s working right now on the actual amount of flow that we’ve
had over the past 10 years to tell me what the actual capacity is, because with the Transfer law we’re all of
a sudden getting some other interest in people joining the community system. We want to know where
we stand, how many we can add, and then we’re talking about what do we do to expand our capacity to
get more in. Because I’m expecting, I don’t think that we’ll ever get all 32 homes, and Takundewide has 21
acres with a lot of depth, and we’ve got homes that are back 900, 1000 feet from the water, and it doesn’t
really make sense for them to join this when they’ve got good land, they can put in a good traditional system
is what I’m being told, but we’re trying to expand it so that we’ve got that capacity and anyway, I keep
talking. Did I answer?
MR. SHAFER-Yes.
MR. MASON-I did want to point out the narrative also says something about the Takundewide water
system. It’s already hooked up. All of Takundewide is hooked up for Takundewide water systems. It’s
community water and it will be hooked to a community septic system.
14
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. VALENTINE-Are there more homes that could be built here?
MR. MASON-No. At Takundewide? Not without, the original application I was involved in back in 1986.
We agreed with the Town on the numbers that we had and that that was the end of it. The Mason family
no longer owns a majority of it. So that would be up to, I’ve thought about this through the years. The
homeowners association and the existing ownership may at some point decide that they want to do
something like that. I can’t imagine it, knowing the people that are there right now. They like the
numbers. They don’t want to expand ever, but they would of course have to come back, I think they’d
have to come back in front of the Town Board, the Planning Board, the Zoning Board and get the blessings
of everybody if they were ever to do something as radical as that. In our master plan we agreed that we
would not be expanding it. So I don’t anticipate that at all.
MR. VALENTINE-There are other homes, other than this one, who could go for expanded living area.
MR. MASON-Yes. There are others that are this size, the 24 by 32 foot homes, single story, and as time
goes on, I’ve been there since the start. I didn’t really think that they’d all end up being this, but I kind of
do at this point now, and I’m looking at, there’s like 10 left, I think, 10 or 11 lots that have not expanded,
and I think that, you know, 50 years from now or 100 years from now they will all, but it will take a while
to get there.
MR. VALENTINE-But the same argument will come up for a calculation of floor area ratio.
MR. MASON-Yes.
MR. VALENTINE-With anybody else who wants to do that.
MR. MASON-Sort of. It’s the same 18 acres of common property. Actually when you do the math, I mean
I’ve included that sheet, I’ve done that sheet every time I’ve come in front of these Boards. We actually are
the underdeveloped area in Cleverdale, at least. Our neighbors have much smaller lots with much bigger
rd’
homes. We’ve got like 2/3s of an acre per home at Takundewide and I don’t expect that to change.
MR. MAGOWAN-You’ve done a beautiful job over the years. It really is, it’s a nice lake community.
MR. MASON-Thank you. I appreciate that.
MR. MAGOWAN-It’s a big family there, and stay on Tom Hutchins to get those flow rates. I mean you’ve
got enough land where you can expand on to it, but the other option is maybe we can start that sewer
district that you want up there.
MR. MASON-We’re all working on hat now. I’m on the Park Commission. So I’m dealing with the
sewer inspection issue as well.
MR. TRAVER-Other questions, comments? Do people feel comfortable moving forward with a referral?
Okay. We have a draft resolution.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: AV # 75-2021 WILLIAM MASON
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant proposes a 768 sq. ft. second story
addition to an existing 768 sq. ft. one story home. The project includes a 16 sq. ft. new porch landing entry
and a smaller access landing to the existing porch. The home has an existing one bedroom and the second
floor will add three more bedrooms. The project includes connection to the Takundewide community
septic and water supply from the lake. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040, 179-6-065, 179-13-010, site plan for
an expansion of non-conforming and a new floor in a CEA shall be subject to Planning Board review and
approval. Variance: Relief is sought for setbacks, permeability, floor area, and expansion of a non-
conforming structure.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance, per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning Board to
provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning
Board of Appeals & Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application, the relief request in the variance
application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and surrounding
community, and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE NO. 75-2021 WILLIAM MASON
Introduced by David Deeb who moved for its adoption, and
15
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
a) The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse impacts
that cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
th
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-You’re off to the ZBA.
MR. MASON-Thank you very much, and one last thing, let me apologize for my rude discussion with my
friend there. I hadn’t seen him since COVID and I didn’t expect to see him tonight.
MR. TRAVER-No need to apologize for the discussion. It’s just that it can interfere with the discussion
that we’re trying to pay attention to in the meeting. So just, you know, if you can have it in the other room
around one of those tables. Okay. Thank you. The next section of our agenda is New Business. The first
item under New Business is Joseph Gross, Site Plan 72-2021.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 72-2021 SEQR TYPE: UNLISTED. JOSEPH GROSS. OWNER(S): SILVER
CIRCLE LLC. ZONING: CLI. LOCATION: 27 SILVER CIRCLE. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO
CONSTRUCT TWO 16,000 SQ. FT. WAREHOUSE BUILDINGS WITH A 2,000 SQ. FT. COVERED
LOADING DOCK ON AN EXISTING PARCEL AND TO IMPROVE ONSITE PARKING AREA.
THE PROJECT SITE HAS 4 EXISTING BUILDINGS AND THERE IS NO CHANGE TO THESE
STRUCTURES. SITE WORK INCLUDES MAINTAINING EXISTING STORMWATER
MANAGEMENT. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE,
CONSTRUCTION OF NEW COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IN A COMMERCIAL LIGHT
INDUSTRIAL ZONE SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
CROSS REFERENCE: SP 6-2004 OFFICE/STORAGE, SP 18-2009 MODIFICATION, SP 62-2013
LOT LINE ADJ & 3 NEW BLDGS., SP 14-2015 LOT LINE ADJ & 2 NEW BLDGS., SP PZ 140=2016,
AV PZ 138-2016. WARREN CO. REFERRAL: NOVEMBER 2021. LOT SIZE: 9.38 ACRES. TAX
MAP NO. 309.17-1-17.2. SECTION: 179-3-040.
CHRIS KEIL, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-The applicant proposes to construct two 16,000 square foot warehouse buildings with a
2,000 sq. ft. covered loading dock on an existing parcel and to improve the onsite parking area. The project
site has four existing buildings and there is no change to these structures. The site work includes
maintaining existing stormwater management. This was previously approved under a different
application, and items that I thought the Board might ask for additional information include landscaping
and buffer area, building lighting, floor plans and the orientation of the elevations might need to be
updated.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Great. Thanks, Laura. Good evening.
MR. KEIL-Good evening. Chris Keil with Environmental Design Partnership. We’re here on behalf of
the applicant. I know if he were here he’d be excited to tell you that expanding these operations will bring
in new jobs through Gross Electric. Since this project was almost master planned, in 2016 the original Site
Plan Review showed all of these buildings. I think at that point the applicant wasn’t ready to move on
that. So we kind of removed the plans. So now, at this stage, he’s ready to expand. So we’re just kind of
moving that process forward, using some of the existing stormwater infrastructure, essentially the same
way that was thought of back then. So I’d be happy to answer any questions about the project.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Well it’s good to see the anticipated projects coming to fruition. They
were, I do remember the discussion about these potential buildings. So questions, comments from
members of the Board?
MR. SHAFER-I have one. What would be the primary access? How would a truck get into these new
buildings?
MR. KEIL-From Silver Circle. There’s that cul-de-sac to the north. So if you come in from the north past
the office. At the north end of the site where it touches Silver Circle. So there’s access there. Trucks can
by-pass the office into the interior of the site.
16
(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. SHAFER-So they’d have to go by three of the existing buildings to get to the ones in back.
MR. KEIL-Exactly. And that area in the back that’s being developed it’s actually currently gravel. So the
impervious surface is a slight decrease.
MR. TRAVER-There are some updates that need to be done on the plans, the covered loading dock.
There’s an open bay that appears to be suggested by the plan that needs to be clarified, and as Laura
commented in her Staff Notes we should also be looking at revising the sheets for vegetation areas and
clarification on the buffers.
MR. KEIL-Yes. Those comments were all noted and we do, we are holding that 30 foot side yard and rear
yard setback where it is where it abuts an adjacent use. We’re keeping that vegetation, but we’ll note
that.
MR. TRAVER-There’s also a public hearing on this application. Is there anyone in the audience that
wanted to comment on this application? Yes, sir. We do have one gentleman that would like to speak.
If you could come up to the microphone, sir.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
DAVID BOGUE
MR. BOGUE-Good evening. My name is David Bogue and I received a notice about tonight’s hearing. I
own 74 and 79 Eagan Road which generally abuts this proposed plan. I don’t have any issue with the
proposed plan. I just heard a question asked and answered. I’d like a little further just clarification
because Eagan Road, I used to also own 84 Eagan Road, which really abuts the property. So I’m very
familiar with the property. My real question has to do with current or perhaps future access to this facility
as it relates to Eagan Road. Now technically Eagan Road ends right on the corner of my property at 70
Eagan Road. From there on it continues to a dead end on a cul de sac, but that’s a private road, yet Town
maintained. So anywhere along there there will be a potential for access into this property and that’s just
what I’m trying to seek clarification on. Is there an internal plan, and I think part of that was answered
on how this building is going to be accessed through Silver Circle, but is there any provision to stipulate
in the design that there will not ever be access via Eagan Road into this through the back end?
MR. TRAVER-So your concern is that there should not be access on Eagan Road.
MR. BOGUE-Well, no, because if you look at the nature of the intended use of the property, it really looks
like it’s going to be for heavy trucks and we’re a residential neighborhood. So you don’t want big trucks.
You’ve got a loading dock. You don’t want 18-wheelers coming through there and even during the
construction phase, for most of us, you know, this is all private residences. So, yes, we have occasional
delivery trucks. We have occasional need to have repair work done, but it isn’t a constant flow of traffic
even during construction or after it’s opened up. That’s the real concern.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. We’ll see if we can get clarification on that. Thank you.
MR. VALENTINE-Can you tell me where you are on there? I’m trying to go by the plans and pick up your
last name and see what, the lot where you’re referencing and the impact.
MR. BOGUE-So you see where the corner of that rectangle is?
MR. VALENTINE-The one where the hand is right now?
MR. BOGUE-Go down to the corner at the very bottom.
MR. MAGOWAN-The end of Eagan Road.
MR. BOGUE-Come, yes, the end of Eagan Road, the corner on the bottom, no, the other picture was better.
MR. TRAVER-I think if you move the mouse to the left, Laura. There, that lot.
MR. BOGUE-That lot.
MR. TRAVER-Move the mouse left and up a little bit. Now up, to the left one more. Okay. Now down
at the lowest point.
MR. BOGUE-Right there where the cursor is, that’s my lot, and the one next door to it is my lot, and prior
to about three years ago now we sold Mr. Gross the front of that.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. VALENTINE-All right. That’s why I noticed the Gross name on it, on the lots.
MR. BOGUE-Where that arrow, where that bubble is, the stick, the lollipop, we used to own that.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So he’s adjoining those two properties, which we were fully aware of. I mean we
had those conversations and there’s no issue. All we’re trying to make sure of is that as you come past that
corner, Eagan Road technically ends right there.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. BOGUE-And the rest of that road all the way to the end is shared among all of us as a private drive,
and it’s a shared access driveway.
MR. VALENTINE-So when I’m kayaking there, that bend in there, you’re in those houses that are looking
right out?
MR. BOGUE-Yes. I own four of them down there on that spot you’re talking about. Actually I don’t even
want to get into that because that’s beyond the rectangle.
MR. MAGOWAN-So you don’t want people driving past that corner point across the base of that
property.
MR. BOGUE-It’s not a question of people. It’s just.
MR. TRAVER-Heavy equipment.
MR. BOGUE-Heavy equipment, construction equipment.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I think we understand.
MR. BOGUE-Yes. I mean we certainly all have guests and we all have friends and people invite and have
parties. That’s not the issue. The real issue is planned ingress and egress to that industrial complex.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. BOGUE-Actually the Town maintains that road for us, which we’re grateful for, especially in the
winter when it snows., but it isn’t your typical road construction. They came in several years ago and they
threw some stone and oil down and you have some pavement there which is plowable, but, you know, it
won’t last forever.
MR. MAGOWAN-Not with heavy equipment on it.
MR. BOGUE-No.
MR. MAGOWAN-And that’s a pretty windy road to get all the way back in there anyway.
MR. BOGUE-It’s brutal.
MR. MAGOWAN-So chances are the heavy equipment and tractor trailers aren’t harmful but it would be
nice to put it out there that that not be an access point.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. We’ll clarify that. Thank you very much.
MR. BOGUE-Thank you. I appreciate it.
MR. TRAVER-Is there anyone else that wanted to comment in the audience on this application? Any
written comments, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-There are no written comments, but I did want to identify that there was an engineering
comment. I don’t believe that it had enough time to get to the Board members or even possibly the
applicant at this time. So there are engineering comments.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MAGOWAN-A lot?
MRS. MOORE-Three pages, but five comments.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. TRAVER-And we would have had similar comments back when we looked at this two years ago.
Right?
MRS. MOORE-Probably, and I think a lot of it is just re-reviewing the existing stormwater plan and then
clarification from the applicant.
MR. TRAVER-Right. Okay. All right. Thank you. Well we’ll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TRAVER-This is an Unlisted Action under SEQR. So we do have a SEQR review that needs to be
conducted.
MR. DEEB-There’s no landscaping proposal. Is that something they’re going to need?
MRS. MOORE-So the applicant has identified, and this should be on the updated plans if it were to be
approved, that that 30 foot buffer, that vegetation is around the entire 30 foot. That should be on the plans.
MR. TRAVER-We did ask that earlier and the applicant has clarified that they will do that.
MR. DEEB-There’s also another comment. Plans should be revised to indicate building light fixtures and
locations. That has to be done.
MR. TRAVER-Does anyone have any concerns under SEQR with this project? Would this be a
reaffirmation of SEQR, Laura, or was that not considered back in the original?
MRS. MOORE-I want to say that the SEQR regs had been updated. So over 4,000 square feet is reviewing
the SEQR regs at this point.
MR. TRAVER-Good point. Right. Okay.
MR. DEEB-Well, before we get to that, too, we have plans should be updated to show the covered loading
dock between the buildings. So that’s on there, too. All right.
MR. KEIL-Yes.
MR. DEEB-So, do we feel comfortable moving forward under SEQR with this application? We have a draft
resolution, I believe, for that.
RESOLUTION GRANTING A NEGATIVE SEQR DEC SP # 72-2021 JOSEPH GROSS
The applicant proposes to construct two 16,000 sq. ft. warehouse buildings with a 2,000 sq. ft. covered
loading dock on an existing parcel and to improve onsite parking area. The project site has 4 existing
buildings and there is no change to these structures. Site work includes maintaining existing stormwater
management. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-040 of the Zoning Ordinance, construction of new commercial
buildings in a commercial light industrial zone shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
The Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board action is subject to
review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act;
The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of Environmental
Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the regulations
of the Town of Queensbury;
No Federal or other agencies are involved;
Part 1 of the Short EAF has been completed by the applicant;
Upon review of the information recorded on this EAF, it is the conclusion of the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board as lead agency that this project will result in no significant adverse impacts on the
environment, and, therefore, an environmental impact statement need not be prepared. Accordingly, this
negative declaration is issued.
MOTION TO GRANT A SEQRA NEGATIVE DECLARATION FOR SITE PLAN 72-2021 JOSEPH
GROSS: Introduced by David Deeb who moved for its adoption.
As per the resolution prepared by staff.
1. Part II of the Short EAF has been reviewed and completed by the Planning Board.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
2. Part III of the Short EAF is not necessary because the Planning Board did not identify potentially
moderate to large impacts.
th
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-And with that, we look at the Site Plan itself. Do members of the Board feel comfortable
moving forward? Okay. We have a draft resolution for that.
MR. DEEB-Do we need conditions to show updated?
MRS. MOORE-Updated information.
MR. DEEB-Do you want me to list them or just put what’s in the Staff Notes?
MRS. MOORE-You can do it as identified in Staff Notes.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP # 72-2021 JOSEPH GROSS
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board: Applicant proposes to construct two
16,000 sq. ft. warehouse buildings with a 2,000 sq. ft. covered loading dock on an existing parcel and to
improve onsite parking area. The project site has 4 existing buildings and there is no change to these
structures. Site work includes maintaining existing stormwater management. Pursuant to Chapter 179-3-
040 of the Zoning Ordinance, construction of new commercial buildings in a commercial light industrial
zone shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080, the Planning
Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the Zoning Code;
As required by General Municipal Law Section 239-m the site plan application was referred to the Warren
County Planning Department for its recommendation;
The Planning Board has reviewed the potential environmental impacts of the project, pursuant to the State
Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA) and adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration –
Determination of Non-Significance;
The Planning Board opened a public hearing on the Site plan application on November 16, 2021 and
continued the public hearing to November 16, 2021, when it was closed,
The Planning Board has reviewed the application materials submitted by the applicant and all comments
made at the public hearing and submitted in writing through and including November 16, 2021;
The Planning Board determines that the application complies with the review considerations and
standards set forth in Article 9 of the Zoning Ordinance for Site Plan approval,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 72-2021 JOSEPH GROSS; Introduced by David Deeb who moved
for its adoption.
According to the draft resolution prepared by Staff with the following:
1) Waivers requested granted –no waivers were requested. The applicant has provided information
on g. site lighting, h. signage(no signs proposed), j. stormwater, k. topography, l. landscaping, n
traffic, o. commercial alterations/ construction details, p floor plans, q. soil logs, r.
construction/demolition disposal s. snow removal.
2) The approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval. Applicant is responsible for
requesting an extension of approval before the one (1) year time frame has expired if you have not
yet applied for a building permit or commenced significant site work.
3) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
a) The limits of clearing will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange construction fencing shall
be installed around these areas and field verified by Community Development staff;
b) If applicable, the Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval, permitting and inspection;
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
c) If curb cuts are being added or changed a driveway permit is required. A building permit will not
be issued until the approved driveway permit has been provided to the Planning Office;
d) If application was referred to engineering then Engineering sign-off required prior to signature of
Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
e) Final approved plans should have dimensions and setbacks noted on the site plan/survey, floor
plans and elevation for the existing rooms and proposed rooms in the building and site
improvements;-
f) If required, the applicant must submit a copy of the following to the Town:
a. The project NOI (Notice of Intent) for coverage under the current "NYSDEC SPDES
General Permit from Construction Activity" prior to the start of any site work.
b. The project NOT (Notice of Termination) upon completion of the project;
c. The applicant must maintain on their project site, for review by staff:
i. The approved final plans that have been stamped by the Town Zoning
Administrator. These plans must include the project SWPPP (Storm Water
Pollution Prevention Plan) when such a plan was prepared and approved;
ii. The project NOI and proof of coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES General
Permit, or an individual SPDES permit issued for the project if required.
g) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building and
Codes personnel;
h) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work;
i) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
j) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
k) This resolution is to be placed in its entirety on the final plans.
l) Site Plan to provide updated information as identified in Staff Notes (landscaping/buffer
area, building lighting, floor plans, and orientation of elevations)
th
Motion seconded by Brad Magowan. Duly adopted this 16 day of November 2021 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-You’re all set.
MR. KEIL-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-The next item under New Business is Hoffman Development Corp., Site Plan 71-2021.
SITE PLAN NO. 71-2021 SEQR TYPE: UNLISTED. HOFFMAN DEVELOPMENT CORP.
AGENT(S): FRANK PALUMBO, CT MALE. OWNER(S): 919 STATE ROUTE 9. ZONING: CI.
LOCATION: 919 STATE ROUTE 9. APPLICANT PROPOSES A 5,750 +/- SQ. FT. CAR WASH
BUILDING WITH ASSOCIATED ACCESS DRIVES AND QUEUING LANES, AND 18 SELF-SERVE
VACUUM AREAS. THE APPLICANT HAS INCLUDED A SIDEWALK TO BE COORDINATED
WITH OTHERS ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE ON WEEKS ROAD. PROJECT INCLUDES SITE
WORK FOR ACCESS ONTO ROUTE 9 THROUGH EXISTING TRAFFIC LIGHT, ACCESS ON
WEEKS ROAD, SIDEWALK ON WEEKS ROAD AND ASSOCIATED SITE WORK FOR
LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING, AND STORMWATER. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040 OF
THE ZONING ORDINANCE, NEW COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION SHALL BE SUBJECT TO
PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 38-1990, SP 53-2011,
SP 57-1995, AV 42-1995, AV 74-1995, 99729-8147 ADDITION, DISC 5-2021. WARREN CO.
REFERRAL: NOVEMBER 2021. SITE INFORMATION: TRAVEL CORRIDOR. LOT SIZE: 2.01
ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 296.17-1-42. SECTION: 179-3-040, 179-9-040.
FRANK PALUMBO & MARTY ANDREWS, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So the application proposes a 5,750 square foot car wash building with associated access
drive and queuing lanes and 18 self-serve facility area. The applicant has included a sidewalk to be
coordinated with others along the property line on Weeks Road. The project includes site work for access
onto Route 9 through an existing traffic light, access on Weeks Road, sidewalk on Weeks Road and
associated site work for landscaping, lighting and stormwater and in regards to information that I think
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
the Board might want to include in additional discussion would be the stormwater information, the type
of lighting, the landscaping and the additional work for the interconnect and sidewalk and signage for the
building and site.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you, Laura. Good evening/
MR. PALUMBO-Good evening. Frank Palumbo with C.T. Male Associates. I also have representatives
here from Hoffman Carwash.
MR. TRAVER-Before you begin, I wanted to discuss with the Board, we have, the information with this
application is actually incomplete and we’re still awaiting some traffic details and so on. So we anticipate
a recommendation at some point that this application be tabled to I believe Laura we discussed the
February meeting?
MRS. MOORE-February. Yes.
MR. TRAVER-And so there also is a public hearing on this application. So just to alert members of the
audience that may be here to generate public comment for us, since we have not received information on
traffic yet at this point we will be re-hearing this application in February. We will keep the public hearing
open until then. So there’ll be opportunity for public comment at that point in time as well, and, sir, you
may begin.
MR. PALUMBO-So I guess the only thing that surprised me is I didn’t expect that we would get tabled to
February. We would have hoped that we would have been on sooner than that, because we think that the
items are down to very small items. We received Chazen’s comments just tonight on the stormwater, and
I see nothing exceptional in their comments. In fact probably half the comments are just things that are
very small. We left out a decimal point on one that’s 591 instead of 5.91. So I don’t see anything very
significant on the stormwater.
MR. TRAVER-Well one of the issues, of course, is this is an Unlisted Action and we have to consider the
environmental impacts and since we have incomplete information.
MR. PALUMBO-I understand that, and I understand your schedule is very loaded up, but I do think, and
we’ll still hear what the public has to say if anything.
MR. TRAVER-We’ve also had discussions on this before as a discussion item.
MR. PALUMBO-Yes. Again, I understand the schedule. I also understand the closing on the property and
everything. That’s why I’d certainly like to come back sooner than February. Again, we came in with a
sketch plan application so that we could see what the Board’s thoughts were on the plan, and I think
overwhelmingly, not that the Board was very much in concert with the ideas and the concept of the plan,
I think we’ve been doing a lot of very good things including the addition of a sidewalk which is not for our
project but for the benefit of the area. I think we’re doing a lot for Weeks Road there where we’re
eliminating two drives, going down to one and making the connection out with Route 9. Yes, we are
behind on the traffic analysis. Just like you’re facing a lot of projects, there’s a lot of projects out there and
it seems like the traffic studies are getting bottlenecked, but I did a commitment that the report would be
st
done by December 1, and we could have that back in. The preliminary analysis from VHP who’s doing
that study is that they are not witnessing, some of the numbers that they’re generating, anything that they
think is going to fall into the serious condition type of action. The peak hour p.m. peak they’re looking at
numbers like 78 trips during that p.m. peak which is 39 in and 39 out. One thing that we explained at the
sketch plan meeting is that Hoffman’s has this down to a pretty fine science. It’s funny on the way up here
I was listening to a show talking on marketplace talking about queuing analysis and I was like that’s
exactly what they do, knowing exactly how people come in and go out of the site. So we’re not afraid of
anything that’s going to come up an we’re actually excited that the traffic is going to function very well
and so I guess just the nature of the comments, I think we can have that back and would certainly
appreciate it if we could have some re-consideration on the schedule of that of the timing of coming in for
another meeting because I do think that we’ve covered most of the items that are necessary to make your
decisions.
MR. TRAVER-Sure.
MR. DEEB-That’s not up to us, though.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean with regard to information to make the application complete and scheduling
and so on, that’s something you want to direct to Laura’s office and the Planning office. She will assist
you. I mean the more communication you have with her and her staff, the better off you’re going to be.
MR. PALUMBO-So at this point I think I’ve pointed out the primary essentials and you’ve seen this before.
As I said it’s very consistent with what we came in with, with the site plan on the last time and we did,
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
again, Laura, a lighting plan. We’ve had a quick discussion on that. That was just a turn in and we’ll work
on any adjustments with that. The quick conversation that we did have, e-mail exchange, was that we
have, she thought that the light intensity was a little more than was necessary for the standard commercial
sites. I guess the Town looks for like an average of 2.5 foot candles. I went back, Laura, after getting your
e-mail and looked at it. What we do have is for the entire site, which includes everything off to the, for
the entire site. If you pulled out all the average, you know, all the points, we’re at an average of 1.5, but
that does include that large area over to the left where the apartments are. We specifically, and to meet
Code, maintained a 50 foot buffer there and there’s at least 35 feet where nothing has been impacted. So
the light levels, if you take them and the way the light level reading was done or design was done, you’ll
see, maybe mid-way between those, a point of .30, but it’s never really going to reach there in the actual
condition. That was assumed that there was just a flat surface there. One of the reasons that in our
development area that we do have a little bit higher intensity is because we were trying to, in the case of
the lower part of our site there, trying to get some light spread over to where the sidewalks are. So in order
to have enough intensity to get the light to the sidewalk which we’re putting in, we want to make sure
people are safe on, we have a little bit higher intensity in where we have the lights where we need them for
our functions. So it is a little bit higher. It’s at 4.5 average instead of 2.5. We can look and see how we
can maybe manipulate that a little bit more, but we do think that some of the places where we had good
reason to be above are things that we can discuss with the staff, rather than just holding to well it’s a 2.5
average or it’s a 4.5 average. I think there’s some good reasons why we have some of the intensity that we
have.
MR. TRAVER-But it is important that we consider the lighting code such as it is. Light pollution is a real
concern in the Town. So, yes, anything you can do to bring it into compliance, that effects SEQR and
everything. That is not an insignificant issue if you’re nearly doubling the limit. That is very, very bright.
MR. PALUMBO-Right, and then I guess it’s just the application of that, the code. Does the code specify
the area of development or the entire site? If it was the entire site we’d be below. It would be at the 1.5.
MR. TRAVER-Again, it sounds as though you’ve been in discussions with Planning Staff on that and I
encourage you to continue to do that. We will certainly look at that photometric plan when it comes in.
MR. ANDREWS-Marty Andrews, Hoffman Carwash. So we’ll have some of these lights going off after
eight o’clock at night. So that will reduce the light pollution or foot candles. We operate from 8 to 8.
We like to have light a lot during operating hours. I mean there’s cars, people are trying to shine their cars,
come out and they wipe them down vacuuming, but at eight o’clock or shortly after that, nine o’clock, a
series of lights are turned off through our computers. And the whole vacuum area will only have a couple
of lights on because that vacuum area closes at eight o’clock at night.
MR. TRAVER-Well, again, when we see the photometric plan, you know, we do have guidelines that we
like to follow. So just do your best to be in compliance with that. Have discussions with Staff. They’ll
assist you with working on a plan to try to make that compatible and we’ll look at it.
MR. PALUMBO-The other items, so there was lighting, stormwater comments that we have from Chazen,
and as I said we can address those. The lighting I think we can come to a very swift conclusion on. The
landscaping, Laura, I wanted to ask about the comment, because it said that we’ve addressed the
landscaping in that area of the design, but not in the buffer area, and as you can see that buffer area is fully
wooded. So we did not intend on doing any landscaping in there. Are you looking for supplemental
landscaping in there?
MRS. MOORE-So it looks like in one of the plan sheets that it wasn’t clear whether it was remaining or
being cleared.
MR. PALUMBO-I think the limit of the clearing is certainly, I think I noticed that it was 30, the
requirement was to keep the pavement away 50 feet.
MRS. MOORE-The buffer is typically a 50 foot buffer.
MR. PALUMBO-Right.
MRS. MOORE-So that’s the discussion with the Board whether you actually have a buffer of vegetation of
50 feet or whether you have a combination of a buffer of a certain, you know, a vegetation buffer of a certain
distance and a fence or something like that. That’s a discussion with the Board, and I just couldn’t, I guess
when I was looking through the plan sets, it just wasn’t clear what was happening. I know we had
discussed it but it didn’t show clearly in the plans what was happening.
MR. PALUMBO-Yes, I think what we ended up needing to do is just the minor amount of grading. Most
of that area is flat where the vacuum parking is, but even just a minor amount of grading to get in there for
construction. I think we have probably about five feet of cut outside of that, and we can certainly replace
some.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MRS. MOORE-I just want to get to the landscaping plan because it doesn’t show, so if you look at this
landscaping plan, I don’t see, there’s no notes on this particular area about what happens here.
MR. PALUMBO-Right. So we can clarify the limits of the clearing. It is much more consistent with the
plan that you saw there with the trees that are existing that we used on the lighting plan, and we can touch
up the grading and tighten that up as much as possible and show.
MRS. MOORE-I guess just make a note that this vegetation area is to remain and not be cut at any time.
Something to that effect that the only time that trees or vegetation are to be removed is like dead and dying
and things. So that sort of notation that is clear to the Board and clear to anybody who looks at the plan.
MR. PALUMBO-That’s fine.
MR. TRAVER-Clarification I think is all we’re looking for.
MR. PALUMBO-Yes. We had another project in one place where they actually wanted us to go into the
woods and do some supplemental landscaping where they found some clearing. So I didn’t know if that’s
where you were going. I’m glad to hear that it’s not.
MR. TRAVER-It doesn’t sound that way, but we’ll know better when we have the full plan.
MR. PALUMBO-So that was the landscaping, lighting, storm and the traffic. We’ll have that all
completed. So unless you want to do the public hearing and then you can go and see what any other
comments that the Board may have.
MR. TRAVER-We are going to open the public hearing and we will leave it open. So that when we see
the full application, and anyone interested in making public comment will also have access to that same
information that we are awaiting. Then we will actually hold the public hearing when you come back.
MR. PALUMBO-Right, but we’re still holding the public hearing. I know there’s one gentleman who’s
here to speak. That’s why. So we’re still holding the public hearing tonight. It will just be tabled .
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. DEEB-There’s also, the applicant to provide supporting information to complete the interconnect
work.
MR. PALUMBO-And I think that’s one of the things Mr. Nichols is here representing the adjacent
landowner.
MR. DEEB-Okay.
MR. PALUMBO-From our standpoint the interconnect work is at that point where the former Outback
Steakhouse, when that project was approved, the Board had left on the plan a requirement to allow for the
cross connection inter development. So we had talked with Mr. Nichols and he wanted to ask us any
other questions and get clarification and make some points. So we’ll continue that dialog, but we do
believe that is what the Board intended at the previous time.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MR. VALENTINE-What was the status of VHP?
MR. PALUMBO-VHP? They have all the field work done, Mike. They have the preliminary analysis and
they think it can be done right after Thanksgiving, the first week of December.
MR. VALENTINE-Do you know how many intersections did they pick up?
MR. PALUMBO-I know that they talked more. Alana told me that she talked with you about which ones.
MRS. MOORE-She did, and I don’t recall which specific intersections they had picked up. So that’s not,
I know that she said all the data came in.
MR. PALUMBO-I’ll be honest with you, Mike, I don’t think that we conditioned it really had to be many
more than this intersection, just because.
MR. VALENTINE-You say this meaning one?
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MR. PALUMBO-Yes. The Weeks, or not the Weeks, the intersection that’s right out at Route 9, I can’t
think of what the name of the road is across.
MR. ANDREWS-Sweet.
MR. VALENTINE-But Sweet’s signalized. Right?
MR. PALUMBO-Sweet. Sorry. Sweet is signalized with the exit driveway, entrance, exit driveway for
the former Outback Steakhouse. That signal is now functioning. We’re adding the trips that we would
be sending out there now, and so that’s what I was referencing.
MR. VALENTINE-That was my question. Were your trips going to pick up anything that is going to
have to do anything to the signalization?
MR. PALUMBO-That’s exactly what’s being studied right now and when you said how counting the
intersection, we did not envision this as one where the, once you got outside of that intersection, we did a
signalized intersection. We did not envision that that was going to have a cumulative impact down
because of the number of trips we were seeing during the peak out. We didn’t see it was going to have a
negative impact on those, but we’ll let VHP’s final report specify all of that.
MR. VALENTINE-I was just looking at three of them as probably being in, Sweet, and Weeks and then
also where Weeks comes back out onto 9. I don’t think anything heading westward, coming from the
apartments to there, your trips are headed somewhere else.
MR. PALUMBO-Right.
MR. VALENTINE-Thank you.
MRS. MOORE-So, Mr. Chairman, I know I have one public comment that’s here. I know there’s, Mr.
Nichols. I don’t know, it would almost be helpful to hear some of those comments tonight, but that’s up
to the Board.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. Okay. Yes, no, that’s fine. We will open a public hearing, and is there anyone in the
audience that wanted to address the Planning Board regarding this application? Yes, ma’am.
MRS. MOORE-Before you speak, Claudia, are you also repeating the same comment, or is that a different
one?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
CLAUDIA BRAYMER
MS. BRAYMER-I won’t repeat it word for word, but I’d like to take a moment if the Chairman doesn’t
mind, if the Board doesn’t mind. I won’t read my comments word for word. We did submit a letter from
my firm. I’m Claudia Braymer, attorney from Braymer Law, representing Whispering Pines Associates,
LLC which owns property in close proximity to the proposed project, and I know the Board already knows
you have seen this one time before in the Sketch application as was mentioned, but this is the first time
that it’s come before you. It’s a brand new application and we do ask that you take your time on this. At
the Sketch application meeting I thought you were pretty clear that you had asked for traffic information.
I think that they weren’t necessarily agreeing to a full traffic study. That’s what we would like to see, but
I think you were pretty clear that you wanted to see that traffic information. As was just mentioned on
the intersection with Sweet Road and 9 and the entrance and then at Route 9 and Weeks Road and then
the other one is at Weeks Road and the side entrance that they are proposing. The reason that we are
concerned is that in addition to my client’s property which contains an apartment complex on Weeks
Road with approximately 260 residents, there is another apartment complex, Roberts Garden North, and
a number of condo units also located on Weeks Road. Among these three residential communities there
are hundreds of people who live on this dead end street which is Weeks Road. So in addition to those
there are also the entrances to Wal-Mart and the new commercial complex on Weeks Road that is in the
process of being constructed. It was recently approved by the Planning Board. I think that was last year
and the entrance to that is directly across from the proposed driveway for this on Weeks Road. It’s right
next to Monty’s. The foundation is laid but it’s not been built yet, but that entrance will be right there.
So there are serious concerns about traffic congestion and safety, including safe ingress and egress for the
hundreds of residents who live at the end of Weeks Road. These concerns will be exacerbated by the
proposed car wash at this location with the proposed entrance and exit on Weeks Road that they are
proposing. This Board has already recognized that the Hoffman’s Carwash on Quaker Road in the Town
routinely backs up onto the road at that location. There is the potential for that type of traffic backup to
happen here, either onto Route 9 or Weeks Road or both, and as was mentioned, this Board also knows
that there has been a lot of traffic studies and potential mitigation reviewed for the area near where Great
Escape is and then even further up near the Outlets. So this is an important, this is obviously an important
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traffic corridor. The applicant’s comparison in its materials to traffic from the historic carwash on this
site is inapplicable because that was a whole different type of carwash operation and moreover it was shut
down over 10 years ago. The traffic that’s there now is not the same as it was 10 years ago. I may be stating
the obvious again but the applicant needs to supply information about the traffic impacts, including traffic
counts and projections, and its consultations with DOT before this Board takes up review of the proposal.
The applicant also indicated that it would provide an analysis of the Town’s sewer system capacity and
ability to accommodate the project. Neither of these items were addressed in the applicant’s latest new
submission. The Planning Board should not review the proposed project or conduct SEQR until the
applicant provides a thorough analysis of the traffic impacts, and we thank you for tabling the application
until this further information is presented and also thank you for keeping the public hearing open. Thanks
for your consideration tonight.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you. Is there anyone else that wanted to address the Planning Board tonight on this
application? Yes, sir.
JOSEPH NICHOLS
MR. NICHOLS-Thank you. My name is Joseph Nichols. I’m an attorney. I represent a neighboring
property which is Queensbury Holdings. They own what was the Outback Steakhouses property. I was
contacted recently by my clients and their primary concern is that they wanted to have some guidance on
the interconnect issue and my understanding, you know, as an attorney I went and I did some research
regarding easements and right of ways and what not and I didn’t find anything. I had a conversation with
Mr. Palumbo earlier today who indicated to me that at the time the original subdivision application was
submitted, which at the time we called this both the Outback Steakhouse and the Red Roof Inn. They
were combined in one subdivision. At that time apparently there was an interconnect, a proposed
interconnect that was shown on the map and that proposed interconnect, as I would looking at the map
shown earlier, is, when you come in at Route 9, my client’s property veers to the right and it’s basically
straight ahead that it would connect into Hoffman Development. So I guess what I’m really doing is ‘m
asking his Board if you could to educate me on how that interconnect would have been approved back at
the time or suggested as being part of my client’s, or the predecessor in title’s responsibility to have that
done. Because my client is looking for some guidance as to what their responsibility is and how is it that
there’s an interconnect on property that they, ultimately they bought it in a foreclosure sale. So I think
this is kind of coming up to them a little unexpectedly. So they want some guidance on how that
transpired.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, understood. Well, what I would suggest, again, and you’ve heard me mention this
earlier tonight, is I would contact the Planning Staff as they have access to all of those prior documents and
plans and they could provide you with any and all information you need regarding the history of that, the
details of exactly what was approved, minutes, if necessary, of the various meetings and that should answer
any and all of your questions and if not, when this project returns, the public hearing will remain open, if
there’s any unresolved issues, and I understand from the applicant’s presentation that they are also
working on this issue of this interconnect and hope to have it resolved by then, but certainly your role
would be to clarify that history, which it sounds like you’re really concerned with, and you should be able
to access that information relatively easily.
MR. NICHOLS-Certainly, and the interconnect I would presume we would be contacted in order to
coordinate that in some fashion, if in fact it were adjacent property.
MR. TRAVER-That would be my expectation, yes.
MR. NICHOLS-The issue of traffic, Attorney Braymer addressed that issue and maybe if you think about
it, it’s a double-edged sword for my client. The more traffic they have, the more likely it is that they’re
going to have patrons into their restaurant. On the other hand, if the traffic’s backed up onto Route 9, it
may dissuade people from coming in. So again, I’d be interested in seeing how that traffic study comes
out.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. It’s a significant concern and not only from the planning standpoint, but also from the
State Environmental Quality Review Act standpoint. So we’ll be looking at all of that.
MR. NICHOLS-Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience that wanted to address the Planning Board
on this application? And, Laura, you noted that you had written comments.
MRS. MOORE-I did, and I’m not going to repeat it. I believe it was from Claudia’s office and it stated the
same thing that she spoke of tonight.
MR. TRAVER-Okay, and they are part of the record, and as we mentioned this public hearing remains
open and any additional comments will be subject to our availability at that time as well. Okay.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MR. PALUMBO-If I could make sure I understood things correctly with regard to one of the comments.
So the only statement we made about the comparison, that I realize if we put something in our narrative
that made it sound otherwise, the only comparison we made about the carwash is the existing carwash
had two entrances on Weeks Road and we were going to reduce that to a single entrance. We weren’t by
any means trying to represent or say that the traffic volume would be comparable. We fully expect that
the traffic volumes for our new facility will be greater than what would have been there at that time.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, understood. Sure. We’re not going to be concerned with what was or what might
have been.
MR. PALUMBO-I just didn’t want it to sound like we were misrepresenting something.
MR. TRAVER-No, not at all.
MR. PALUMBO-And the fact, you know, no one wishes more than I do that the traffic study had been
done in the timeframe that it should have been, and that the delays had not occurred, but we are giving you
a full traffic study and, yes, Mike, I didn’t understand at first, but the number of intersections, yes, you’re
right. The signalized intersection at Sweet, the intersection at Weeks Road and Route 9 and at the
intersection at the driveway. The existing volumes in the whole area of what’s going in and out of there is
part of the existing conditions. So people that use the Wal-Mart entrance at that point will be factored
in, even if that intersection isn’t detailed with the same level of detail that we’re putting on those three
intersections. As I said, I know that VHP had contacted the planning offices before they went out and did
the counts to say is there anything else we should know about. So we think we’ve done it and at least
right now that it’s been done in a manner that’s consistent with the traffic analysis and we’ll get the results
to you. That’s our job to get those to you. The only thing I would ask is could we do it sooner, because I
do know when that report’s going to be in. I think it could be handled in time to possibly be on the January
meeting or something, and that was the only thing I was pushing for, but we know all this has to be in and
we think we can have it in very quickly. As I said, I don’t see anything significant in the stormwater
analysis that’s going to cause a site re-configuration because I don’t see that, and with respect to the sewer
flow and a sewer study, on the plans we did submit connections of how that’s going to be connected and
we gave in the engineer’s report, narrative what our gallons per day were going to be. That was submitted.
Does only Chazen only look at the stormwater?
MRS. MOORE-At the moment they only look at the stormwater. Information about the sewer, water
connections would have been directed to Chris Harrington. I have not heard from Chris.
MR. PALUMBO-Okay.
MRS. MOORE-So I don’t know.
MR. PALUMBO-Well we made the submission, and it would be, or were we supposed to submit that
directly to Chris?
MRS. MOORE-Chris has an opportunity to ask for information. I have not heard from him. That’s what
I’m saying I haven’t heard from him. He typically speaks up and says I need information about this
particular application.
MR. TRAVER-He will certainly be aware of those concerns.
MR. PALUMBO-Right. It’s not, it’s a pretty set. They know how many gallons they use per day and what
they recycle and what goes out and what is allowed to go out, but we’re not, if we hear from the sewer
department that they think there’s something excessive and they need more information, we’ll get it for
them.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. Understood.
MR. ANDREWS-Marty Andrews again. I reached out both to the sewer department and water
department and had conversations with both.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Very Good.
MRS. MOORE-So in regards to having additional, or moving this project into January, I guess I’m just
concerned that, one, I do have numerous projects that are in at the moment. Probably the better half of
the beginning of the new year are projects that didn’t make it into the Year 2021.
MR. TRAVER-That was my understanding as well.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MRS. MOORE-So in regards to this project it doesn’t mean that the applicant can’t forward information
in response to engineering and get that completed in regards to stormwater and get that resolved so that
when you do return to this Board that that information has already been resolved.
MR. TRAVER-And that would be an advantage. If you can get the Town engineer signoff that would be
a big help.
MRS. MOORE-Right. In regards to transportation, at the moment we don’t have anybody that reviews
that information other than requesting something from Chazen to take a look at that. At that point that
has not been done. So in regards to obtaining that information and then having an opportunity to review
it, that’s where I think the crux is, that I think Staff wanted the opportunity to take a look at that and then
determine if that needed additional assistance with review. Right now I think that’s a big step because
you have multiple things going on. You have DOT. You have an interconnection and you have a traffic
study.
MR. TRAVER-Right. And of course we might actually need some time as well to look at of this to make
sure that we’re thoroughly briefed, to save your time and ours. In the long run, with all the factors involved,
it may actually speed the application process for you to make sure that we have everything in and we are
ready to go in February.
MR. PALUMBO-Well, we will get all the information to you in short order because I know that it’s been
committed to now that I will get it in that first week of December. That one report is going to address the
intersections, the signal. DOT will have to review that. They will run their report through DOT. Because
it’s the same information that they’re looking at.
MR. TRAVER-I mean we’re actually fairly familiar with traffic studies.
MR. PALUMBO-So all of that that was sounding like three items was really all handled in the one,
knowing that that is going to be getting done. I know we can have it to Laura and the Department.
MR. TRAVER-Good.
MR. SHAFER-Mr. Chairman, when should we ask questions about the Site Plan? Tonight?
MR. PALUMBO-We would love to hear any questions that are here, if we can.
MR. TRAVER-Although the information is incomplete. I would suggest that it would be better to wait
until we have all the information and we all have a chance to process it..
MR. SHAFER-I have suggestions for some additional information.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. If you feel there’s information missing that isn’t already part of the discussion for
February.
MR. SHAFER-I haven’t seen it. The last step in the carwash process is the blowers and the driers?
MR. ANDREWS-Correct.
MR. SHAFER-I’d like to see some addressing of the noise impact on the apartments to the west, if there is
any, and if there is, is there any mitigation possible. Number Two, is there any rationale for 18 vacuums in
this facility, or is that just pulled out of the air? I’d like to see some basis for the 18. That strikes me as an
awful lot of vacuums, and then lastly the blue color. Are you wedded to that horrible ugly blue color?
MR. VALENTINE-Well, why don’t you phrase that question. What do you really think, John?
MR. ANDREWS-Blue is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
MR. TRAVER-Yes.
MR. VALENTINE-I may not be here. I may not be here, so I’d like to throw something in, because in
January I’ll be under the knife. Frank, and then for the company. This is a question that I’ve had as I’ve,
at any locations now, where you’ve now taken three lanes of traffic coming into, you’re taking one off the
road and you’re bringing them in and you’re separating them into three lanes. When we talk about the
instances of traffic backing up, whether it’s at the Wilton site or the Queensbury site or you’re now down
in Ballston Spa, backing out onto the road. It’s taking the traffic from three channels, bringing it in,
funneling all of them into one, and expecting them to move faster because they were preceded by two lanes.
They don’t go through the wash area any faster and they still wind up with the backing up there because
they’re not going any faster. I don’t know if, and again, this is your own plans. Is there any look at that
saying, maybe there’s something that works differently that can move those cars.
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MR. ANDREWS-Well one of the reasons we go to three lanes is to get more cars queued onto the site.
MR. VALENTINE-They only get queued as far as they enter into the line to get washed.
MR. ANDREWS-And then we still, at this point, with the automated tellers, the process is faster. We
don’t have any human interaction. Now it’s straight through into the building and on our busy sites we’re
running at 160, 180 cars an hour. That’s the track. That’s now how many cars we’re actually putting
through, but that’s the track speed. Because you can only get so many cars in and out.
MR. VALENTINE-I’m talking about the release.
MR. PALUMBO-So, Mike, if I could, since you mentioned Wilton. First off, so these latest versions and
even the one in Queensbury, these latest versions have all of the automated tellers, all of that. I know
Wilton more than I know the one over here. In Wilton, you know, just think of what the differences are
if there are no automated tellers. It’s a single lane all the way around and that lane even holds the people
that are going to the Jiffy Lube as well as the car wash. So this is now down to a much more science of the
movement of those through because they know they can adjust the track speed and how the cars go
through the car wash at a certain rate. So when they have higher volumes they can do that. So you have
the first control, and so what we can do is at the tellers, the automated tellers, we know what the stacking
volume is behind that then we can say, all right, once they get through there, how, when they go around
that corner and they go into the facility, we know exactly how that is going to process. Once they get in
there, we know when they’re coming out. So it’s much more articulated than some of the older sites where
they were not developed in that fashion. Wilton, as I said, two uses there. We’re not going to have that
here. A long wraparound on a site that is all single lane. We can do the comparison and tell you the
difference of the numbers there when you line them all up. So these are newer facilities and they have all
of that more factored into it now than the older ones did.
MR. TRAVER-And we had some discussion of this during the sketch.
MR. PALUMBO-Right.
MR. ANDREWS-And we no longer spray down your car. There’s not somebody spraying your car. So
now we’ve gone to a touchless type entry. So you’re loading onto the track, you automatically go because
nobody’s spraying your car down. So automatically we have high pressure spray right away. So that
helps speed up the process.
MR. MAGOWAN-But who’s going to guide you onto the track.
MR. DEEB-I’ve noticed it at the one on Quaker Road. It’s embarrassing but, it takes you a while to read
the notes on how to put your credit card in to get your, which one to choose, because you’re always trying
to upsell everybody. Are you sure you don’t want the next one up. So that does take a couple of minutes,
but I did notice that you do have people there that do help, and I find that to expedite the entrance
procedure greatly. I mean they came over and they see the deer in the headlight look and then they just
push the buttons for me, but after a couple of times I got it, but it took a while, but anyway, are you still
going to have those people there to help out with that?
MR. ANDREWS-Yes.
MR. DEEB-And then the idea of not spraying, I noticed once you got into the lane, those cars move through
that car wash quickly. Very quickly. I was just amazed at the operation. So it seems you’ll be more
efficient in this one here is what you’re saying.
MR. ANDREWS-Yes. We went from an old store over here on Quaker Road. We’ve re-vamped it with
those tellers, but now you have to drive in that building over on Quaker Road before you get onto the
conveyor. So you’re in the building, right? So this conveyor is right at the edge. So right when you get to
the door, you’re going right on the conveyor. It’s a much easier loading. It’s a quicker process. Just to
help your situation out, you can always become an Unlimited member.
MR. TRAVER-Listen, you talked me into buying the three pack the last time I was there.
MR. MAGOWAN-I have one question. We talked about Weeks Road before and I think I asked for the
study looking at right in, right out. What’s going to concern me is that you have cars coming in from both
areas and then they’re going to line up. Now occasionally you see the cars backed up into the queue, and
what I’m afraid of is that they’re going to see Weeks Road as really the main entrance.
MR. TRAVER-Well, that’s what the traffic study hopefully will give us that information.
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MR. MAGOWAN-Right. I just want to see that because I kind of asked if you looked at a right in and a
right out. My concern is the people going back out onto Weeks, but really if the traffic do back up, cars
do back up, are they going to back up down Weeks Road? Because that means they’ll have to go down
and turnaround and come back and get in line or I’d really like to see the traffic come in off of Route 9.
MR. ANDREWS-And so would we. That’s our main goal to have them come in. When we were here the
first time we talked about cross traffic from the Wal-Mart, what’s more comfortable? Having those people
pull into a car wash here and going back out on the road and then not at a light and turning in. So it’s one
of those catch 22’s here. Most towns we go to they like to have cross traffic without that traffic going
back out onto a major road. So we’re trying to accommodate that, and you have all these people that go
down the road, but if they want to come to the car wash, say they just want to use the vacuum, they have
to go all the way back out onto the road and you make that left, make another left.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well do you think that people are going to come from Wal-Mart to wash their cars or
wash their cars and go to Wal-Mart?
MR. ANDREWS-There’s all kinds of analytics out there that tells us where people come from, where they
shop before they came to our car wash, where they shop next.
MR. PALUMBO-You mentioned the site over on Quaker Road. I would bet any one of you would guess if
I just finished or I went into Lowe’s and didn’t have lumber in the back of my vehicle and just picked up
something n the car, and said, oh, look, I’ll go over, if I’m an automated user, regular user, I’ll go through
and I’ll run through now. That kind of cross connection, if people don’t go out on the road necessarily to
go to the car wash. They’re out on the road, doing other things like shopping at Wal-Mart, other, you
know, lots of businesses along there that they can be going to, and then saying in my trip I’m going to go
through and get that done. Yes, there’s times you know your car is dirty and that’s where your destination
is. I’m not saying it’s never that, but they know that there’s a lot of cross volume traffic.
MR. VALENTINE-One of the missing things at Quaker is the cross connection from Lowe’s. It doesn’t
exist.
MR. VALENTINE-I have five other questions for you, Frank, but that’s all right. We’ll let them go.
MR. MAGOWAN-My question is, what about a right in from Weeks for people that might come from
Wal-Mart.
MR. PALUMBO-Well, the people would be coming from Wal-Mart, they’d be turning left in.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, you’re right. They’d be coming left in off of Weeks.
MR. PALUMBO-Right. So assuming they come out down the road, down Weeks, and exit Wal-Mart,
they would come down and make that left and into the site. That’s what Marty was talking about, if you
don’t have that left available, they go down, turn at Weeks, which we don’t want them turning left there.
That’s why we want to have our exiting traffic going out at the light. If somebody’s going to make a left
out, we’d prefer they get used to going out to the light and making the left. You have all the different
movements and the traffic analysis will show this, which cars are coming southbound on Route 9 and
turning right into the facility and coming around and going around and are they going to go back out and
make a right to continue on down Route 9?
MR. MAGOWAN-That may be beneficial. You’ll get more people from Wal-Mart wanting to wash their
car because they’ll say, you know what, I don’t want to go to Weeks and make a left. While we’re here at
Hoffman’s why don’t we just go get our car washed and then we’ll go out at the light.
MR. PALUMBO-We can’t say until the traffic study.
MR. MAGOWAN-All right. We’ll wait for that traffic study.
MR. PALUMBO-We’ll wait for the traffic study to give us the numbers.
MS. WHITE-So you mentioned that we’re going to have less people. So what are your employee
projections?
MR. PALUMBO-Employee projections?
MS. WHITE-Did you include that? I didn’t see anything on that. I know that’s like a future question for
site plan, but I just figured I’d throw it out there since you’re saying there’s not as many employees there.
MR. ANDREWS-We’ll have between eight and ten employees there, and that’s basically what we have
everywhere. I mean we’re just like everybody else. We’re having a hard time keeping employees.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
MS. WHITE-But that’s your intention.
MR. ANDREWS-Eight to ten, maybe twelve at peak in the wintertime.
MR. VALENTINE-One last one from Ms. Braymer. She asked a question about consultation with DOT
and I had a question. When you’re going through this, Frank, and VHP is really putting stuff together,
handing it to you, on behalf of the applicant and it’s going forward, but are you going to be consulting with
DOT about the, or is VHP going to be asking them to look at options, alternatives if possible?
MR. PALUMBO-The general process is VHP for us, you know, they’re sending it to me for Marty, and
we’re analyzing their results and saying, the first step is they come up with the test. They try to identify
the existing area that needs to be studied. They do the counts. They do the analysis. They run models
through. They give that to us, and they tell us why the signalized intersection is functioning at an A, a B,
a C, a D, you know, whatever it is. The unsignalized intersection is analyzed somewhat differently, but
it’s still the same thing, what happened, what’s the safety factors, you know, they have the turn lane there,
how quickly can they make the turn. They’ll also, within the modeling they can start to do the predictive
type of stuff, saying when does that become such a, like somebody who would be turning on Weeks for
any other reason, they have to make that left. That’s what they’re doing, but if they’re going to the car
wash and they have to make the left they may start to get into that habit of going up to the light and saying,
hey, the first thing I have to do is to wait for the signal to allow me to turn. So all that happens and we
come to a conclusion. We do sort of a review and I ask those same type of questions that you are.
MR. VALENTINE-That’s why I’m asking that, Frank, is because of the fact that the Chairman started off,
probably rightly so, to say, I don’t want to put a crimp on the discussion, but that there was not a need to
go into the depth that we’ve already gone into. So the point is, now that you’ve heard enough right here
about traffic that we weren’t going to go through, you’re going to carry this back to.
MR. PALUMBO-Right. That’s why I wanted to hear it, because those are things that you’re thinking of
that we may not be thinking of. Claudia Braymer, her comments are ones that we can now go back, when
we’re looking it over with VHP and say, how much did you get? Did you see what was happening there?
What was your witnessing of that? Because we know it’s an important aspect. Whether or not they have
detailed counts on it, I don’t know that. Whether or not they’ll say we better go back, I don’t know that
yet. That’s when the study comes out, but hearing these types of comments are the ones that we can then
vet the report. Once we have it to where we think it is the credible report and sending it in to the
Department that’s probably at the same time that we’re going in and presenting it to, getting an audience
with DOT to say, here’s our report. This is what we want you to see. We need your comments. The Town
is interested in knowing what your comments are. Let’s just say the report called for signal improvements
by changing, not changing the signals but changing the timing, adjustments. That’s something that we
know, if that’s something that will keep us at a B Level of Service to adjust the right hand out at the
intersection there at the light and right now there’s a 15 second timer on the left hand turn and we say it
needs to go to a 30, DOT is going to want to, probably have some questions about that. So it could be that
we’re saying everything is functioning well and we think that the way that it is working is functioning
well, we don’t have to ask, we don’t have a big ask of DOT. We’re not asking them for improvements,
physical improvements. We’re not asking for timing adjustments. If that were the case I’d be very happy.
I don’t know what that’s going to be until we get the report, and you don’t either, but I’m very happy to
have heard those kind of comments.
MR. ANDREWS-We have traffic lights right in front of our car wash in the Town of Greenport, we just
put a traffic light right in front of a car wash. So it is for our car wash and for the road across from them
on a major road on Route 9 and it’s worked out.
MR. VALENTINE-Just one last one for me. Then we can go home and watch whatever’s on at nine o’clock.
I remember going back and looking at the Wilton site 12, 15 years ago. The big thing there was
recirculation of the water, screening, using it again. Has there been improvements here that are going to
help this as far as what goes into the sewer system?
MR. PALUMBO-Yes.
MR. ANDREWS-Again, we build car wash equipment and we’re going to build our own re-play system.
So every year it’s just like everything else, everything improves on how the quality of the water is and it can
be re-played and it just improves all the time.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So, Laura, refresh my memory. What was our target date, February?
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MRS. MOORE-So the meetings in February start with February 15 or February 22.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Why don’t we try for that.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 11/16/2021)
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MR. DEEB-When is the information due by, January 15?
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MR. TRAVER-January 15.
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MRS. MOORE-Yes, it’ll be January 17 because the 15 falls on a Saturday.
RESOLUTION TABLING SP # 71-2021 HOFFMAN DEVELOPMENT CORP.
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board: Applicant proposes a 5,750 +/- sq. ft.
car wash building with associated access drives and queuing lanes, and 18 self-serve vacuum area. The
applicant has included a sidewalk to be coordinated with others along the property line on Weeks Road.
Project includes site work for access onto Route 9 through existing traffic light, access on Weeks Road,
sidewalk on Weeks Road and associated site work for landscaping, lighting and stormwater. Pursuant to
Chapter 179-3-040 of the Zoning Ordinance, new commercial construction shall be subject to Planning
Board review and approval.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 71-2021 HOFFMAN DEVELOPMENT CORP., Introduced by
David Deeb who moved for its adoption, seconded by John Shafer:
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Tabled to the February 15, 2022 Town of Queensbury Planning Board meeting with information to be
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submitted by January 17, 2022.
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November, 2021, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. PALUMBO-Thank you very much.
MR. MAGOWAN-I do like the design of the building. It looks very nice there.
MR. TRAVER-Let’s see, so before we entertain adjournment, just a reminder we will be coming back on
Thursday to complete the November applications and please take a look at the proposed calendar for 2022
so hopefully we can approve that on Thursday and with that, is there anything else? I’ll entertain a motion
to adjourn..
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF NOVEMBER
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16, 2021, Introduced by Jamie White who moved for its adoption, seconded by David Deeb:
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Duly adopted this 16 day of November, 2021, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Ms. White, Mr. Shafer, Mr. Dixon, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Valentine, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Hunsinger
MR. TRAVER-We stand adjourned. Thanks, everybody.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Stephen Traver, Chairman
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