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2004-06-14 SP MTG26 812 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #26 JUNE 14, 2004 RES. 308-312 6:30 p.m. TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER - Entered the meeting at 7:25 P.M. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 308.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. John Strough RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss personnel matter, regarding hiring of an accountant. th Duly adopted this 14 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 309.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. th Duly adopted this 14 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: Mr. Brewer NO ACTION TAKEN Supervisor Stec-Noted that the first item on the agenda Town Security has been pulled and will be rescheduled in two weeks. ?? COMMUNITY CENTER ARCHITECT DISCUSSION – RECREATION COMMISSION Supervisor Stec-Invited Doug Irish to make their presentation. Chairman Doug Irish-Spoke to the Board regarding an Architect for Recreation Facility - RFP for professional services an Architect Design Firm last month, seventeen invitation 813 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 to bid and nine were returned with the help of Mr. Hansen and our consultant Greg Ferentino and myself we reviewed the responses. First interview was with six firms, the second interview was for four out of the six, presented a score card for each firm to the Board…Recreation Commission has recommended the firm of Joy McCoola a local firm. Supervisor Stec-Questioned if the Recreation Commission supported the process of you and Harry and Greg doing the initial screening? Chairman Irish-Noted that was set up prior to the invitation. Supervisor Stec-For the record, Doug Irish, Harry Hansen, Greg Faerentino and Commission Members Connie Goedert, Paul Etu and also Steve Lovering all present. Councilman Boor-Questioned if there has been indication as to the location? Chairman Irish-Spoke to the architects regarding the selection of a site, we have a couple options to be looked at, a firm site has not been selected at this time. Councilman Boor- For clarity with regards to the money you will be asking for the architect I assume it is a portion based on whether or not a location is found and it is passed by referendum. Greg Ferentino-You would do a professional contract for full service, the full service employs several distinct services, each one of them has a percentage. I have started to have a dialog regarding the contact to be reviewed by your attorney. It is understood that the only thing we are asking them to do right now is to provide schematic designs services which is only good for a fifteen percent portion of their fee. In the event the referendum goes down that is it. Councilman Boor-You are asking for the total amount, the worst case scenario would be the fifteen percent. Mr. Ferentino-Yes. Chairman Irish-Noted that the company has agreed to attend meetings for the public and have handouts on the project. Supervisor Stec-You are asking us to consider a resolution for us to enter into a contract with the fifteen percent stipulation as part, but a total contract, noted that this could be done at the first meeting in July. Councilman Boor-This will include engineering also? Mr. Ferentino-Yes, all that is required to design and construct a building. Suggested that the Town notify them that they have been accepted as an architect and a contract will be developed. Councilman Boor-Bob can handle that if we rd say yes. Chairman Irish-As a point of information the Town Board approved on the 23 of February to fund the project for four hundred twenty four thousand dollars. At this point you would not have to move any money anywhere. Councilman Boor-What is the figure? Chairman Irish-The proposal is eight hundred and ninety seven thousand. Councilman Boor-That is the architect and engineering. Councilman Brewer-Questioned how they came up with numbers when there is no design? Chairman Irish-It is based on footage. Supervisor Stec-Project turn key price Seventeen million Questioned the size of the pool? Director Hansen-eight lanes, thirty five yards, a diving well, and L shape off it for lessons, community rooms … Councilman Boor-Do you have any recommendations in regards to language in a referendum as far as the amount to be bonded? Chairman Irish-Noted a discussion was held regarding if the town would willing to fund some from the surplus..no decision made… Town Counsel Hafner-When you do the bond resolution you have to have the total estimated amount of the project you have got to have a plan of financing and what you are asking is to get the information that we need to draft a resolution, that is what is going to be subject to referendum. Director th Hansen-Noted the last date to go to referendum is September 26. Supervisor Stec- Noted we need all the answers in August. Chairman Irish-Greg indicates that we should have it by the end of August. Supervisor Stec-Requested that Mr. Irish work with Town Counsel to draft a resolution and a contract. We need to emphasize to the Recreation Commission that we need to make sure we are out in the community listening to what they want… ?? UNDERGROUND UTILTIES Supervisor Stec-Spoke to the Board regarding a draft local law on Underground Utilities…noted draft law was too site specific needs to be broadened. Councilman Boor-Wanted the local law to cover the main corridors, Route 9, Quaker Road…Discussion regarding area to be covered-All of Route 9, Quaker Road, Aviation from the bridge to Route 9, Main Street…Councilman Boor-Questioned if the resolution would set a time frame for any new construction or remodels would be required to place underground utilities..laterals that serve the businesses. Supervisor Stec-Requested that a draft be ready this week to be able to have a resolution setting a public hearing date in July. 814 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 ?? MILLION DOLLAR HALF – MILE LIGHTING Supervisor Stec-We are talking about pedestrian lighting in the area of the outlets on the sidewalks…discussed owning the lights, in the long run it will likely be cheaper…Councilman Boor-To rent would be $30,000 per year. Supervisor Stec-That did not include the energy. Asked CT Male to do research on our behalf, there would be fifty one fixtures of the model that the Town Board selected, similar to the models used in Glens Falls…Councilman Boor-questioned if there was a redundancy in their breakdown-unit labor cost of $67.00 for …compaction, remove soil and finish grade and under no. 6 they have general restoration they have a unit cost of $40.00 per…Supervisor Stec-We will ask about that. Discussion held regarding 12 vs 14 foot poles…need to have cost estimates on both…how it will effect the number of lights needed…are they considering the lights that are there now? Supervisor Stec-Will ask those questions of CT Male ?? PROFESSIONAL OFFICE DESIGNATION LANGUAGE CHANGES Supervisor Stec-Memo from Chris Round -Two options to be considered: 1. Amended the purpose section to give more emphasis on the purpose of the PO zone (changes in table two summary of allowed uses in commercial district they added noted #4 to address personal service businesses Personal Service Businesses are allowed as accessory and subordinate to a professional office. Any Professional Facility shall be located or housed within the Professional Office Building.) Option #2 Language to reduce allowed densities to the UR, PO and SR Zones, PO densities are unchanged for those areas where municipal sewer service is provided, densities would be reduced in the PO Zone where no municipal sewer is available, multi family housing would be prohibited in UR and SR Zones outside of a sewer district…We should note that the 1998 comprehensive land use plan Option 2 be considered due to the marginal soils along Bay Road which we are currently trying to sewer. Noted he believed that there were very limited number of PO Zones parcels that would not soon to be sewered. Read Option One purpose- Professional Office district encompasses areas where Professional Offices are encouraged these are located along arterials adjoining residential areas where compatibility with residential uses is important-that is the existing language. The suggestion is to add: The Town desires to see development of high quality offices where structures and facilities are constructed with particular attention to detail including but not limited to architecture, lighting, landscaping, sign and street scape public amenities and pedestrian connections. The PO District can function as a transition zone protecting residential zones from more intensive commercial uses while providing convenient professional services to residential neighborhoods office and residential facilities should be sited and built to demonstrate compatibility with adjoining uses and to minimize any negative impacts on adjoining land uses. Councilman Strough- Questioned if you had a PO Zone with thirty acres, wanted to place apartments, should a certain percentage of the proposal be offices and another percentage be apartments? In PO shouldn’t it be basically professional offices? Councilman Boor-I do not think high density housing is a transition from residential to commercial but I was under the impression that we were going to try and encourage revenue generating day time businesses in PO. Councilman Strough-We could apply the five hundred feet anywhere, the first five hundred feet next to a major arterial has to be professional offices and professional office only, after that you can have residential. The same as Bay Road has. Councilman Turner-Noted Bay Road is a thousand foot back just because we had the distance there to do something with, you look around town there isn’t much else that is that deep. Councilman Strough-If someone wanted to build other than the five hundred feet they could apply for a variance. Supervisor Stec-Noted that this subject will be revisited in July. ?? PLANNING BOARD RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT MORATORIUM REQUEST Supervisor Stec-Invited the Planning Board up to the table. Chairman of the Planning Board Craig McEwan, Mr. Huntsinger, Mr. Ringer, Mr. Sieguljic, Mr. Metivier, Mr. Steffan, Mr. Sanford Also Craig Brown and Marilyn Ryba from the Planning and Community Development Department Reviewed the memo from the Planning Board regarding a moratorium…Motion To Introduce A Resolution from the Planning Board to 815 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 the Town Board, Introduced by Robert Vollaro who moved for its adoption, seconded by Richard Sanford: As follows: Resolved the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby recommends to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury to consider a resolution at their next regular meeting to institute a hundred and twenty day moratorium for the following: This proposed moratorium would include all residential uses including Senior Housing, Apartment buildings, Residential Subdivision, recommendations from the Planning Board to the Town Board on residential rezoning and related site plans. This moratorium would not apply to industrial or commercial applications. The reason supporting this moratorium are: #1 Expedite the completion of the on going build out analysis then: Evaluate impacts on the towns infrastructure – Evaluate impacts on school districts 2. Review and update Subdivision Regulations: Clarify allowable densities - Identify developable land - Clarify wetlands requirements – Estimate impacts on affordable housing - Incorporate new Phase II Stormwater Management Regulations 3. Review Zoning Ordinance: Professional Office – Multifamily Residential Housing – Incorporate appropriate language into Article 10 Special Use Permits 4. Complete Karner Blue Butterfly Protection Plan: Develop Karner Blue Overlay District 5. Review and modify the 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan: Incorporate appropriate changes resulting from the above activities 6. Evaluate Organizational Staff’s Capacity relative to: Planning and Zoning – Building and Codes NOW, THEREFOFORE, BE IT FURTHER, RESOLVED, that We, the Planning Board of the Town of Queensbury, hereby approve forwarding this resolution to the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury th for their action. Duly adopted this 27 day of May, 2004, by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Sanford, Mr. Metivier, Mrs. Steffan, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Seguljic, Mr. Vollaro, Mr. Ringer Noes: None Chairman McEwan-Reviewed for the Board the issues that the Planning Board brought forth in the resolution. Noted that they are starting to see an interest in developing lands that have a lot of restraints to them as far as density or proximity to areas that are identified in the comprehensive land use plan, there were many issues that brought forth this idea. We view the one hundred and twenty day moratorium we do not think that is an outrageous amount of time to ask for us to take a step back and look at where we are going to see if we need to change course as a Town and address some of these issues. Planning Board Member-To clear the record, the object of this moratorium has nothing to do with Planning Board work load. Senior Planner Marilyn Ryba-The Chazen Report will contain information on marginal lands in terms what maybe totally restrictive or what maybe marginally restrictive. Councilman Strough-Spoke on the Karner Blue Butterfly stating that we are awaiting protocol from the Federal and State Governments. Planning Board Member-We are looking for a way to avoid high density in margin properties… Planning Board Member-We are looking for ways to stream line the process, where we could have a better comfort level. One of the things I would like to recommend is that we have an independent engineer who goes out on some of the suspect sites for sizable subdivisions and does his own pits and evaluations and then report to us yes this is appropriate land for eleven or twelve home subdivision or says no there will be severe problem in terms of septic systems on this type of land. I am looking for a process that we are all comfortable with. Councilman Brewer-Noted that there are Federal and State Standards and you second guess them you will drive yourself nuts, you can feel in your heart it is wrong but if there are Federal and State Guidelines how can you say, you have to shake you head and if you do not agreed you still have to agree with it those guidelines. Planning Board Member-We have taken the stand in the last few months that if CT Male signs off on it then ok. What happens if we are wrong? 816 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 Planning Board Member-Spoke about the build out analysis being a help in giving direction … the issue is the residential direction that we are heading in this town for development is it the right direction, we as the Planning Board do not think it is the right direction. Councilman Boor-No one likes to discuss moratoriums but it is not a foreign word other communities do it and it has been done in the past. I am not suggesting that we have a moratorium but I think I see a cry for help here and I think as an elected official I would like to step up to the plate and do what I can to help you guys out. Spoke on the cost to the community of residential vs. commercial, noting that he does not want to stop residential development but we should be sure that we understand the negative impacts of it. If we do not get a hold of it and we let properties get developed that shouldn’t be developed not only do we have to pay for the roads, the fire the ems, the schools and the traffic but we have got lawsuits that come back on us because we have approved jobs and shouldn’t get approved. We should not be afraid of the word moratorium, it is being responsible, maybe we do not have to do a moratorium I do not think we probably do but I think we can’t turn our head and run because it is uncomfortable… Planning Board Member-We are looking for tools that we can use when we do our job, be it site plan review, subdivision, what have you. Tools that could work toward the best interests of the town. Planning Board Member-The problem is long range where do we want to be … could the comprehensive plan be a little bit better document? It needs to be a much more definitive document than what it is, granted it is a guide documents but it falls short. Planning Board Member-We are citizens of the community and we try to make the best decisions we can to protect both the towns interest but to also make sure people can develop land…I strongly support the moratorium, we need to step back and plan. Not everyone is on the same page about where we are going, as a Town there is a tremendous opportunity for us to take a leadership role and demonstrate what good planning is about and to put together a good vision of what we want to be. As a Planning Board Member I was given information to evaluate submissions, we have the Zoning Regulations, Comprehensive Land Use Plan, Seqra guidelines, Open Space Plan and another layer the new storm water regulations, there is a tremendous amount of information to wade through to feel confident in the decisions we are making. I think that is where a lot of the debate and disagreement comes from because everybody has a different way of reaching a decision, but I still feel strongly that our decisions are only as good as the information they are based on. If we are looking at documents that have competing directions then you know we are going to be confused in the decision making process. Spoke about conditional approvals and the work that creates. Planning Board Member-Need to deal with density, what lands are suitable to be developed as well as wetland criteria… Planning Board Member-Suggested setting up a committee members from the Town Board, Planning Board and Zoning Board and staff and come up with some ideas. Councilman Strough-Noted a meeting was held with the developers, and with the Planning Board, would like to know where the community is falling into this? Would like an open forum on the moratorium and where do you want this community to go. Planning Board Member-Noted he was not in favor of the moratorium, but did agree with a lot of the comments that have been made, need predictability, commented on the number of variances in the past few years, need to tweak the Town Code. Need to look at how infrastructure effects development in the Town. Supervisor Stec-Requested Town Board Comments. Councilman Brewer-I do not think at this time I will support a moratorium. I think there are valid concerns that the Planning Board has, in two weeks we will have the build out analysis…before we restrict any more development you have to tell me what our vision is 817 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 and where we want to go, then we can figure out how to get there, just stopping everything is not what I would want to see. Councilman Strough-I would like to see an open meeting to allow the community to input into this process. I would like to see the Zoning, Planning and Town Boards be there listening. Draw up a list, what is the consensus what are we hearing, that being compared to what our zoning ordinance is saying, is our zoning matching up with what the community is telling us where they want to go. If it is not maybe we do have to do some adjusting and make some fine tuning. Councilman Turner-I do not identify with a moratorium right at this point, I think what we need to do and I heard it very clear tonight, there are properties out there that need to be identified they are marginal sites. They need to be decreased in density of those sites. Councilman Boor-What I like about a moratorium is that it forces us to do something because the political pressure is so intense I see Mr. O’Connor out there and some other developers, lets not pretend we don’t know what this is all about. It is very easy to say we are going to do something and work very hard at it and we could end up in quagmire where we just kind of pass it off and throw ideas around and essentially we are wasting a lot of time. Having said that, I do not think a moratorium is necessary relative to the issues at hand. I am very concerned that this Board is not doing it job. Granted you have to oversee the planning but ultimately that has come down to site plan review. I do not think we as a Board have given you any help or vision as to what we see this town looking like, we are the ones that are elected. I see us not giving clear direction and I apologize for that. We need to show better leadership. I would like to get the public involved and I would like to encourage you to say no at the drop of a hat. I would rather be Article 78 to death at this point in time rather than put up some stuff that comes back to haunt us. I think we should have a series of meetings and get the public involved. I will do everything I can do to see that housing continues where it is appropriate and it is quality. We should not be afraid of restrictions that ultimately will keep this town from being over developed. Lets put a series of meetings together with clear goals in mind, lets get as much input as we can and then lets give you the tools to say no. Planning Board Member-Urge the Board to pursue the avenue to have a Town Engineer attend the planning board meetings. Executive Director Round-Noted that the Town Engineer will be present for the meetings in June. Supervisor Stec-The charge back for his attendance will be discussed by the Town Board. Planning Board Member-What I have suggested is to have our Town Engineer, in environmentally sensitive areas to physically do some of the test reports and report it to the Planning Board rather than reviewing a statement from an engineer who says here is the findings. Supervisor Stec-Thanked all the members of the Queensbury Planning Board and staff for your involvement and your volunteerism. I think our staff and our Planning and Zoning Boards are truly first rate. We are not asking anyone to rubber stamp, we are not asking anyone to roll over for the sake of development or the tax dollar, I do not think that we have that. I am encouraged by what I see, that is not to say I will always agree with what comes out of either our office or those two boards, the law in N.Y. is very distinct as to how much, whether or not I agree with you matters, because we do appoint you and we are hands off for a seven year terms. I want to compliment you because I do not think you get complimented nearly enough as you should. I am not saying that I will always agree or the public always agrees but the job that you do and the attitude and the care that you put into it and the dedication and intent that you all put in to trying to get into what is right for the community I think and I know that I speak for the whole Board when I say this is greatly respected by the Town Board. Say no and table as needed until you have got the information that you need or asked for. I would rather you say no to one bad project and let four or five good projects proceed, then lets say no to all projects. The Build out Analysis is going to be a good tool for the school to use. I would like to see 818 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 more industrial job producing growth. It is for the Planning Department, the Town Board, Planning Board and Zoning Board to decide what build out is going to be. The Town is waiting for the State report on the Karner Blue. Regarding site plans, new policy on all site plans wetlands will be delineated. Spoke about looking at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, will not require a moratorium…the Professional Office Zone, does not require a moratorium. In my opinion a moratorium is appropriate when all other options have been exhausted I am not convinced that we are there now. I think we need to take public input to fix some items, but do it without the moratorium. I recommend that the Planning Board and staff in the mean time if it isn’t workload related, is have a workshop and start the process of saying ok you have identified six high points of things you want fixed start making specific recommendations to the Town Board. If you want to invite some members of the Town Board and Zoning Board and have a task force that is fine. I would encourage the staff and boards communicate more amongst themselves… I think the development community has a share in the problem and a share in fixing the problem, it is important for them to work with the Town. Spoke on the staffing needs in the Planning Dept. also talked about an engineer, willing to look at that. Re: Great Escape the lights and the bridge are moving as quickly as humanly possible through the State DOT bureaucracy…noted the light has been approved to move one light up to the intersection of Glen Lake Road and Route 9, the timing of that will come into play with the bridge … The State has told us the light would be the faster or the review of the two, the bridge will be longer. Thanked Chris for the briefing sheet on what happens at every meeting, that is new this year. Councilman Strough-Questioned the use of a simi moratorium where we will have one or two meetings that is it if you cannot fit it on the agenda it is too bad for like three months. Supervisor Stec-What I have heard was that there is a consensus of the Town Board not to proceed with a moratorium at this point, there was a consensus to encourage more public input and more meetings and more pro active and what I have would pledge to all in attendance that tomorrow Chris and I will get together and I will seek his guidance as to how he wants to coordinate putting together something on a time line and involve Lou and Craig’s input where we would put together some sort of structure of a committee and come up with a mission. That could evolve in the next twelve months into a comprehensive land use plan. Planning Board Member-Spoke about how hard the department works … noted non action will put more stress on the community development department, we need to make sure we are taking care of our people. Councilman Brewer-Spoke on agenda control. Councilman Boor-A Good Place to Live is more than just words it is the vision statement for this town. Planning Board Member-Suggested that someone from the school be on the committee to give input regarding growth. Supervisor Stec-Will meet with Chris, Lou and Craig and come up with a plan and pitch it back to the Town Board and Planning Board as far as what we want to go forward with specifically with how many on the committee, what their charge will be. RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 310.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby moves into an Executive Session to discuss personnel items. 819 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26 th Duly adopted this 14 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION RESOLUTION NO. 311.2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Tim Brewer RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Executive Session. th Duly adopted this 14 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None NO ACTION TAKEN RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL MEETING RESOLUTION NO. 312. 2004 INTRODUCED BY: Mr. John Strough WHO MOVED FOR ITS ADOPTION SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby adjourns its Special Meeting. th Duly adopted this 14 day of June, 2004 by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Stec NOES: None ABSENT: None Respectfully submitted, Miss Darleen M. Dougher Town Clerk-Queensbury 820 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 6-14-2004 MTG. #26