1989-01-23
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QUEENSBURY RECREATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MEETING
JANUARY Z3, 1989
Minutes of the regular meeting of the Recreation Commission of the Town of Queensbury,
held Monday, January 23, 1989, at the Queensbury Town Office Building, Queensbury,
New York. Chairman Granger called the meeting to order at 7:35 P.M.
PRESENT:
Commissioners Bly, Granger, Labatore, LaBombard, Lettus and Teti
ALSO
PRESENT:
Councilmembers Monahan and Montesi, Director Hansen and Recording
Secretary Wilson
ABSENT:
Commissioner Simmonds (Ex.)
VISITORS:
Wm. P. Gates (Glenwood Homeowner's Group), Doug Kenyon (Glenwood
Homeowner's Group), Dave Klein (Trout Unlimited), Chas. & Gaynelle
Moore (Feeder Canal Alliance), John Peck (W.C. Soil and Water Conservation
District)
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Bly moved to approve the minutes of the December 12, 1988 meeting.
Commissioner Teti seconded the motion and after polling all Commissioners, the motion
was unanimously approved.
COMMUNICATIONS AND REMARKS FROM VISITORS
In view of the number of visitors present, the Commission decided to review the
correspondence included in the monthly packet first, before discussing the Hovey Pond
park project. The Supervisor's correspondence to the Commission on the matter of communications
was discussed and Commissioner Bly suggested, in order to insure better communications
in the future, that the Supervisor possibly attend some of the meetings. Commissioner
Teti also questioned the Chairman with regard to the need for his January 19th meeting
with the Supervisor and Chairman Granger responded that he felt such a meeting was
warranted in order to better clarify the communication situation.
The Director briefly responded to Commission questions regarding the Feeder Canal/x-coun-
try ski trail memorandum and reiterated that the Commission had instructed the Director
to draft this correspondence at the December meeting. Chairman Granger pointed out
that Mr. & Mrs. Moore had been invited to this evening's meeting and that it would be
more appropriate to discuss this topic (The Feeder Canal) at that time.
The Director explained his Gurney Lane roadway improvement correspondence,
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which had previously been approved by the Town Board.
The Hiland Park letter to the Supervisor (4/19/88) was reviewed and the Director
explained his apprehension with regard to the DEC fishing easement and the 3 year restriction,
which Hiland Park has imposed on any Town work or improvements to the Halfway Brook
parcel. Councilman Montesi pointed out that Hiland Park had, some time ago, given the
Town a deed to the property and granted the Department of Environmental Conservation,
a 30 foot stream easement. Both the Chairman and Councilman Montesi mentioned that
they were aware of the 3 year moratorium with regard to park improvements at the site.
On the subject of the DEC fishing easement, a number of Commissioners and the
Director expressed concern over the fact that the easement is not referred to in the actual
deed. The Director explained that though the easement is mentioned in the April 19th
letter, it is not specifically referenced in the property deed, which was legally executed
in April of 1988. This surprised a number of Commissioners including Councilmembers
Montesi and Monahan and the Director will endeavor to research this information and
report back at a later date.
The Commission briefly reviewed the other items of correspondence included in
the monthly packet and there were comments on the Town's Environmental Quality Bond
Act rejection letter.
HOVEY POND PARK PRESENTATION
Chairman Granger displayed the newest Rist Frost Engineering Hovey Pond concept
plan and highlighted the many changes which are proposed. He explained, in detail, the
walkway systems, the dredging plan, the sedimentation/detention basins and the bypass
pipe. He noted that the size of the pond area to be dredged has been reduced considerably
from the initial project plan, which the Morse Engineering Firm had proposed in 1986.
He also pointed out the plan for parking off both Glenwood and Lafayette Streets and
relayed that Rist-Frost estimated that the total project would cost approximately $880,000.
In summary, the Chairman reviewed the past history of the Hovey Pond park project including
the Commission's role and involvement since the 10 acre parcel was deeded to the Town
in 1982. At this point, the Chairman requested questions and comments from Commission
members first and then visitors.
A number of Commissioners requested an update on the status of the sewer project/fill
material situation and both Councilman Montesi and the Chairman pointed out that the
sewer contractor was about ready to begin work. In essence, this would mean that additional
fill material would soon be available, and therefore the pl"esent culvert pipe would have
to be extended further out into the pond. This fill material belongs to the Town and it
was explained that, if possible, it should be used at Hovey Pond. Councilman Montesi
agreed to coordinate with the Highway Department with regard to extending the culvert
pipe and leveling off the present large pile of fill material.
The subject of the filter fabric material was discussed and it was pointed out that
before further filling can proceed, and to insure against downstream siltation, that this
protective type barrier be in place. The question of what to do with the organic material
excavated from the pond was also discussed and Chairman Granger reiterated that it would
be extremely expensive if it becomes necessary to transport this type of dredged material
from the site. At this point, the Chairman suggested possibly filUng in the westernmost
bay area of the pond in order to create a temporary on site retention area for the dredged
material. A number of Commissioners and some visitors expressed concern with this alternative,
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however, the Chairman pointed out that this might only be a temporary measure.
The bypass pipe portion of the project was explained and discussed and it was suggested
that installing this pipe first, might make it possible to then drain and dredge the pond
to the desired 9 foot level. However, the Director and the Chairman pointed out that
the pipe itself could not possibly carry the high volume of water, which usually occurs
during spring runoff. In addition, the proposed pipe is scheduled to be located in the newly
created shoreline on the pond's eastern shore. This new shoreline will be created by using
a combination of fill material from the sewer project and dredge material from the pond.
The Chairman also mentioned that considering the total cost of the project, if special
interest groups desire to see certain portions of the project completed, that those groups
should be prepared to take a more active part, in terms of helping to finance that portion
of the project.
There was considerable discussion by a number of visitors and Commissioners with
regard to the value of the dredged material and how it might be removed more economically.
A Trout Unlimited representative requested to know if the highly organic dredged material
could be removed and sold, or if a contractor could be hired to excavate the fill material
for free. Chairman Granger pointed out that the material was highly acidic and that in
order to be valuable as topsoil at a later date, that it would necessitate a substantial cost
in both chemicals and time.
A number of Commissioners and visitors questioned the Chairman with regard to
the total cost for the project and wondered if the engineer was going to break the cost
down further into specific items. The Chairman noted that the dredging portion of the
project was projected to be approximately 50-60% of the total cost. In addition, the cost
for the installation of the detention basins was projected at approximately 12% while
the bypass pipe was estimated to be about 7 % of the total cost.
Mr. Peck questioned the Chairman with regard to a number of topics including
the sedimentation basins, the bypass pipe and the filter fabric, which DEC had required
in the Article 15 permit. He pointed out that his office could provide technical assistance
similar to that which was provided in the 1982 Resource, Conservation and Development
study. As a matter of fact, he suggested that the 1982 plan be dusted off, so to speak,
with updated cost estimates and be re-submitted.
On the subject of funding, Mr. Gates, representing a Glenwood homeowner's group,
relayed that the Supervisor, at a previous meeting, had mentioned that funds for this project
were available. In addition, both Mr. Gates and Mr. Kenyon questioned the Chairman
with regard to filling in the western bay area of the pond and the Chairman responded
that this might be necessary in order to help reduce the total cost for the project. Furthermore,
Councilman Montesi explained that a dragline operation would be expensive and that in
view of the pond's size and configuration, that the use of a dragline was not feasible.
He reiterated that because work on the sewer project had again begun, that there was
an immediate need to find a location where this excavated material could be deposited.
Mr. Gates, on behalf of the Glenwood homeowner's group, mentioned that their group
was adamant in the desire to see that the area remain a pond, a natural area. There was
further discussion on all aspects of the project including possible funding and the Warren
County project to widen Quaker Road, and it was mentioned that the latter will impact
the pond project somewhat.
In summary, the Chairman presented a brief synopsis of the Department's 1989
park projects which included improvements to the park facilities at Gurney Lane, Ridge
Road, West End, South Queensbury, and the Queensbury School lighting plan.
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Mr. Kenyon questioned the Chairman with regard to the Glenwood Avenue property,
which the Town is purchasing from Mrs. Pierce, and inquired as to the Town's plan for
patron parking on Glenwood Avenue. Mr. Klein also inquired with regard to the amount
of fill material which was planned for on the Glenwood Avenue side of the pond. Chairman
Granger pointed out that Glenwood Avenue is a county road and that additional fill would
improve the flood situation by stabilizing the pond's eastern bank. The additional fill
would also help to create substantial shoreline off Glenwood which might then be used
as a small parking area.
The Chairman was asked by Dr. Braico to detail some of the tentative cost figures
which Rist-Frost had outlined. Councilman Montesi reminded everyone that these tentative
figures were received less than a week ago and that in view of the projected cost, that
the engineer had been instructed to reevaluate some of the figures. The Councilman also
outlined the situation with the Queensbury Central Fire Company and detailed the upcoming
information meeting scheduled with Fred Austin of the Warren County Highway Department.
Mr. Peck again mentioned the RC & D plan and possible funding through a WC
Soil and Water Conservation Grant program. The Director requested that Mr. Peck clarify
his statement and after additional questioning, he confirmed that the WC Soil and Water
Conservation District did not have a grant program per se, but would be hiring an individual
who would help the Town locate possible sources of grant funding.
The Chairman again summed up the Hovey Pond park project and a number of Commissioners
requested to know the next step. He explained that, at this point in time, the engineer
has been instructed to reevaluate the project in terms of its cost benefit ratio. Likewise,
the Commission would also have to look at the cost of the project compared to other park
projects. The Director mentioned that the sewer project engineer would again be contacting
the Department shortly regarding the use of the site as a dumping area.
A number of Commissioners suggested that the park project engineer be available
at the next meeting in order to help the Commission make some decisions. The Chairman
explained that because of the cost factor, the engineer had not been asked to attend this
evening's meeting. The Chairman thanked all in attendance for their input and explained
that the Commission would reevaluate the project and hopefully make a determination,
as quickly as possible.
FEEDER CANAL ALLIANCE PRESENTATION
The Chairman welcomed Mr. & Mrs. Moore, who were present, at his request, to
further outline the Feeder Canal Alliance Pl"oject. Mrs. Moore distributed a packet of
information about the canal and explained the project. She mentioned that the $5000.
Town donation would help fund the writing of a master plan for the project. A number
of Commissioners questioned Mrs. Moore with respect to the recl"eational opportunities
for residents, which this project might create. There was further discussion on the use
of the canal as both a passive and active recreation site and Chairman Granger pointed
out that the Commission had previously recommended approval to the Town Board, with
regard to this project. Mr. and Mrs. Moore thanked the Commission for their support
and pointed out that the ultimate goal of the Alliance was to cre,ate either a state or
municipal park. The Chairman thanked them for their presentation and there was no further
discussion.
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COMMISSION MEETING DATES SCHEDULE
The Director reviewed the 1989 Recreation Commission Meeting Date Schedule
and he pointed out that there were 2 conflicts. The March meeting conflicts with the
annual NYS Recreation and Park Society Conference and the School's spring vacation
schedule (Director's vacation) will affect the April meeting. Chairman Granger discussed
the possibility of changing the previously scheduled dates and it was the consensus that
the March 20th meeting be postponed and rescheduled on March Z7th. Furthermore, it
was agreed that the April meeting would be postponed indefinitely and that a final decision
on the need for an April meeting would be determined at the meeting on March 27th.
At this point, the 2 page preliminary construction Hovey Pond cost estimates were
distributed by the Director for the Commission's perusal. The Chairman explained that
Rist-Frost had projected these costs at a previous meeting and that afterwards, the engineer
had been instructed to reevaluate the total project in terms of cutting costs.
DEPARTMENT MASTER PLAN REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL
The Director briefly reviewed the draft Master Plan R.F.P. and pointed out that
unless there were of negative comments, that the Department would immediately advertise
for proposals from qualified consultants to develop a new Department Master Plan. The
Commission approved the draft and instructed the Director to move as quickly as possible,
in this regard.
COMMITTEE REPORT
The Director reported that the Summer Youth Pl"ogram Review Committee, at
their meeting in January, had discussed and unanimously recommended to approve the
1988 Summer Youth Pl"ogram Report. Chairman Granger accepted the Committee's report
and suggested that the Commission draft a letter of commendation to Pat Borgos, (1988
Summer Youth Pl"ogram Coordinator), author of the report. The Chairman's suggestion
was unanimously approved and he volunteered to draft the letter.
DIRECTOR'S REPORT
The monthly Director's Report was discussed and the significance of the Director
having to complete a civil service exam was questioned. Councilwoman Monahan requested
additional information on the Master Plan/R.F.P. and inquired as to who would be included
in the interview process. The Director responded that his (12/21/88) memo to the Supervisor
had suggested that 2 Town Councilmen, 2 Recreation Commissioners, the Senior Planner '
and the Director comprise the committee to conduct the interviews and that this had
been approved by the Supervisor.
The Chairman requested some information on the new Town Activity Center and
if all groups using the facility were being charged a fee. Councilwoman Monahan mentioned
that the Senior Club, because they had donated money to the building, were not charged
for usage. Councilwoman Monahan further explained that a building committee to oversee
the building's operation was in place to make those types of decisions.
The Commission viewed the Musco lighting video cassette tape which showed graphically,
the problem of lighting spillage. It was pointed out that light spiUage is a condition which
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may affect the joint lighting project at the Queensbury School athletic facility. Therefore,
the Director chose to show the film in order to make the Commission aware of this particular
lighting situation. The Commission was impressed with the video and agreed that a lighting
system, which significantly reduces spillage, might certainly be warranted, especially
at this location.
ere being no urther business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:06 P.M. The
eld on Feb ary 27th at 7:30 P.M., at the Town Office Building.
Minutes prepared by Harry R. Hansen, Director