2004-08-02 SP MTG33
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 95
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING MTG. #33
AUGUST 2, 2004 RES. 386-388
4:30 p.m.
TOWN BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
SUPERVISOR DANIEL STEC
COUNCILMAN ROGER BOOR
COUNCILMAN THEODORE TURNER
COUNCILMAN JOHN STROUGH
COUNCILMAN TIM BREWER-Absent
TOWN OFFICIALS
Members of the Planning Board
Members of the Zoning Board
Chairman Lewis Stone
Chairman Craig MacEwan
Glens Falls Post Star
SUPERVISOR STEC-Opened the Meeting 4:37 p.m.
1.0 Meeting with three members of the Town Planning Board and
Zoning Board and staff to discuss composition, mission and
goals of a “Planning Issues Recommendations Committee”
Supervisor Stec-The Planning Board expressed to the Town Board
several weeks ago some concerns surrounding the Planning and
Zoning Issues in the Town and requested that the Board consider a
moratorium. At the time we had a joint meeting of the Planning
Board and Town Board we discussed many issues and the Town
Board was hesitant to go forward with a moratorium but recognize
the concerns and issues and we wanted to start to address them.
Since then Chris Round has announced that he is going on to greener
pastures, he will be going to the private sector and in fact has started
his terminal vacation, so Friday was he last actual work day. We
have made a little bit of progress on some of the items that were
brought up to the Town Board attention. Specifically some of the
wetlands delineation issues have been addressed, Karner Blue has
moved forward and not on a time line that the Town controls, we
have received a draft of the build out analysis tomorrow night we will
meet with the School Board at Town Hall at 7:00 P.M. to have a
presentation and accept the actual official report. We have not made
progress in other areas, and I have partial list. There were concerns
about affordable housing, subdivision regulations and some others.
We have a 1998 Comprehensive Land Use Plan the one before that
was 1988, ten years between the plans is not a good idea. We have
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 96
identified the need to try to stay ahead of the curve. We need to
keep moving to stay ahead of the curve. Chris recommended to me
that I contact Lou Stone the Chairman of the Zoning Board and Craig
MacEwan the Chairman of the Planning Board and invite Lou and
Craig and two of their members to a meeting with me and I suggest
that I also invite the Town Board, that is why we are here now. The
two Zoning Board Members whose names were provided to me was
Leo Rigby and Roy Urrico and the two Planning Board names
provided to me were Chris Hunsinger and Gretchen Steffan. It is my
opinion to move the process forward, that most of the concerns that
are most immediate nature identified by the Planning Board. I do not
believe in bringing a problem with out a suggested solution. The
Planning Board has a lot of expertise, they are a selected cross
section of current and past town boards that has a certain level of
working knowledge in the area of our zoning codes and the
knowledge of what the issues have been in the past, the Zoning
Board in a similar way with the Zoning Code. The Planning Board to
take the lead on this committee have the Planning Board use agenda
control and two meetings a month to go over site plan because we
will dedicate a third meeting as a workshop to work on these sorts of
issues. To come with specific recommendations to the Town Board
for action. Suggested a Super Planning Board Plus which would be
all the Members of the Planning Board and then other members from
the public other members from staff other members from the Zoning
Board. Chris suggested get the three members of the Zoning and
Planning Board together in a room and figure out what the right way
to go would be. We have a fair representation of the players that are
familiar with the administrative side of things in the room. Now,
what I would suggest that we consider the six of you along with the
Town Board and staff today try to accomplish a couple of things.
What do we what want for composition of this group, do we want
the whole Planning Board and a hand full of members of the Zoning
Board and certain number from the public? I think once we figure
out how many members from the public we would like involved, the
Town Board would interview for those positions. My opinion is if you
get much higher than the mid teens on a group like this it will
become unmanageable. I would like today to get a membership
idea, come up with a goal. I think the goal ultimately would be that
we would look at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, or issues of the
Planning Board also need when and how often this committee would
meet and how to report to the Town Board. I would suggest at a
minimum you would meet once a month they would be open
meetings and open to the public. I do not think the Town Board
should be members of the committee but I think they should attend
these meetings. We are looking for a composition, a starting point,
how frequently this group will meet and what we are looking for by
way of report, a periodic written report, and at some point a
workshop with the Town Board to discuss specific recommendations.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 97
Chairman Stone-You talked about the ZBA and Planning Board
Members and the public, I would offer that we on the Zoning Board
and the Planning Board are members of the public.
Supervisor Stec-My personnel feeling it would not bother me if this
was a group entirely made up of Planning and Zoning Board
Members, I am not sure that would have unanimous buy in with the
public or the Town Board.
Chairman MacEwan-I think it is better to keep it in house with
members made up of the Planning Board and ZBA we are the ones
that use the ordinances on a daily basis we know the SEQRA laws
and we know what the issues are. Whatever the make up of the
committee is you give them a couple of months to get the ball rolling
come up with ideas in a draft session and maybe have a public
comment night.
Supervisor Stec-Noted that this will be a very public process.
Chairman Stone-Noted concern; The Zoning Code needs an editing,
tweaking,…that is a separate issue but needs to be done.
Unknown-We are members of the public and I think if you try to
involve specific individuals outside of the three boards you run the
risk of somebody saying why not me. If it is an open process, open
public meetings and specific scheduled public comment meetings I
think that accomplishes the public participation.
Councilman Boor-Anything that comes out of this group would it be
safe to say that it would be editing of the Comprehensive Land Use
Plan? Lou has said there is language in the Zoning Code that he
would like to see addressed but, would there be anything that this
group would arrive at decision wise, change wise, that wouldn’t be
something that would effect the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, isn’t
this a start? I think your prioritizing issues that need addressing right
now, you are going to address it in its entirety but in fact you are
taking what exists now and you are changing some things that are
really bad.
Supervisor Stec-I think we would be criticized if we fell into the trap
where we said your mission is to go and come back with a brand new
Comprehensive Land Use Plan.
Councilman Boor-It is a living document as far as I am concerned
and this is addressing the egregious shortcomings of that current
Comprehensive Land Use Plan.
Chairman Stone-Noted that the Town has moved so much faster than
anybody anticipated, it is a matter of recognizing what has been
going on in our community and in the neighboring communities in
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 98
terms of build out all of these things, as good a job as was done, it is
just inadequate in light of what is going on today.
Councilman Boor-I am saying that some things have really gone by
the way side and need to be addressed.
Unknown-Noted he sees issues with some of the slopes that we have
in the town being able to build on some of those slopes and maybe
looking at some of the density being changed. I am concerned with
some areas of the Town where we are starting to see development
encroaching on areas that I think are less than developable as far as
wetlands, not necessarily a flagged wetland. We just know these
lands have historical problems with them. One of the aspects is
changing the density on those so you cannot build them to the
maximum.
Supervisor Stec-One of the more urgent areas is the subdivision
regulations …
Chairman Stone-Conservation Subdivisions, conservation easement
where you use the same density but use smaller lots and make
people save half the land…
Supervisor Stec-RE: Membership (number, who)
Chairman Stone-I did suggest at the Supervisor’s request I suggested
two people. I suggested Chairman MacEwan and myself as people
who are objective as anybody that I know in town we are not
builders we are not looking to develop any land that I own and I
think that is what we need. We need people that have no interest in
any thing except trying to do a good job. The people on the
Planning and Zoning Board that is our aim.
Unknown-What is the position of the ZBA, is it the Planning Board
plus three representatives from the Planning Board?
Unknown-I am looking at it as a town issue rather than a board
issue. The fact that we know the Zoning Code helps but I think there
are issues that go beyond our purview. I think who ever is selected I
think is important but I also think that there needs to be a clear
channel to the public as well both ways input and output. So, they
are aware of what is taking place. There has to be a good agenda
and good feed back.
Unknown-It is a good opportunity for the Zoning Board and Planning
Board to work together, that is a plus that comes out of this. The
size of the core group has to be small, a group that is manageable.
Suggested that the head of the group could be both of the
Chairmans… A good way to get public opinion would be to put
something out on the table every couple of months to review and get
their feed back.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 99
Unknown-I like the idea of having group process and keeping it
internal I think based on the moratorium resolution that Bob Vollaro
constructed it gives us a very good plan to use, the things that we
need to look at and the order in which we need to look at them.
Tomorrow we look at the build out analysis and then from there we
have a very good source of data from where to move forward, then
we can look at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and Zoning
Regulations and the things we have the most problem with. I
certainly from my point of view being new and learning the
guidelines I think it has to be an internal process. I like Craigs
perspective on having public comment nights, like mile stones when
we report out and then get feed back so we know we are in the right
direction. I think Craig would be a good person to Chair the
Committee and I would like to see the committee be no more than
twelve people.
Unknown-Questioned the Town Board’s role in this committee?
Supervisor Stec-Because the Town Board will act on these
recommendations, I am not sure there is a lot of wisdom in us
recommending things to ourselves. I think we can be present but my
personnel opinion, I do not think it is a good idea for the Board
Members to be on this committee.
Councilman Turner-I do not think so either…I think you should not
say anything just sit there and listen, let these guys do the work then
you criticize after if you don’t like what they say.
Councilman Boor-I do not think that the Town Board should be active
on it, but I certainly think if it starts to go in a direction that we know
the Board cannot act on that we should say hey look. We should not
be imputing in to the decision making but we should be there in case
we feel it is not going to end up with a product that we can do
anything with.
Chairman Stone-Questions are always welcome.
Councilman Strough-In reality you have a six member committee you
are lucky to have three or four show up because of conflicts etc. Ten
is not an unmanageable number, if you open it up to see who on the
Zoning Board or the Planning Board is interested in being on here I
think you might have to push to get five. Then if you did have a ten
member committee you have your meeting you are going to be lucky
to have six or seven there. There should be an open channel to the
public if you met monthly on your agenda and new and old issues
and a public hearing component to your meetings so if the public
wants to say something at that time they would have at every
meeting five minutes and just keep it open that way. Try for five
from each board.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 100
Chairman Stone-Let me do a quick poll, you guys are here because
you were invited would you be willing to serve…(by voice agreed)
Unknown-If you have three dedicated people that you know are
going to be there you are in great shape.
Councilman Strough-I do not think you Chairman want to close out
someone on your Board that would like to be part of the process.
Chairman Stone-What if you had nine people on both boards that
wanted to be,…
Councilman Strough-Why don’t you feel out your boards and see how
many members would be interested, start there.
Supervisor Stec-I would agree with that and I would ask that if you
would both go back to your boards and put it to them along those
lines, are you willing and can you commit the time to do this, get an
idea of how many that number would be. I would prefer to leave
here with a number and tweak it from there. If we do leave here with
a number I would like the two Chairmans to figure out who to put on
there and let me know when your first meeting is going to be.
Chairman Stone-The outside number is ten.
Councilman Strough-Noted he would like to see their first meeting in
September or sooner…I would like to see each board have three
items that they are to bring to the first meeting.
Supervisor Stec-Ten on the outside, each Board look for five, let me
know who your members are and pick a date…make it know that all
nine are welcome to participate, even though they are not members
of the committee…might identify the remainder of those as
alternates.
Councilman Boor-Recommended to everyone on the committee is
that you attend tomorrow nights meeting and any subsequent
meetings relative to the build out analysis. That is something I do
not think anybody at this table has a compete understanding of and
it is going to impact very much so the recommendations that this
committee should be making.
Supervisor Stec-We will need the names of the members and
alternates, a date of the first meeting, three issues from each of your
two boards, and by the end of your first meeting a Chairman or Co-
Chair a point of contact for the Town Board to lay hands on. Spoke
about agenda control. We will make staff available, and when there
are recommendations Town Counsel will be available for his input.
Requested that the committee’s meetings be recorded and
transcribed.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 101
Chairman Stone-This would be purely on a volunteer basis, this
would not be a regular meeting there is no pay involved.
Supervisor Stec-This is a volunteer committee. When can we get a
list of names?
Chairman Stone-I can give you three names right now. I will talk to
the others.
Supervisor Stec-A week from today.
Chairman MacEwan-Requested time to see staff availability and
meeting location.
Supervisor Stec-I would like at the latest a workshop of your progress
by our first workshop in mid October.
Chairman MacEwan-Maybe Lou, the best way to take this I do not
know what specific issue you got, the first meeting is an
organizational meeting, we sift out what the big issues are. I am
looking at the Zoning Ordinance, the Comprehensive Land Use Plan
and the Subdivision Regulations, maybe what we do is take those by
item. Go through what your issues are with the Zoning Ordinance
our Planning Board issues with the Zoning Ordinance make
recommendations to the Town Board and move onto the next topic.
Supervisor Stec-I am comfortable with that.
Councilman Boor-Will you guys be keeping your own boards up to
speed on this, so that something does not get left out?
Chairman MacEwan-Absolutely.
Chairman Stone-Yes.
Councilman Boor-Not all of them will be partaking in the committee
meeting but if some of them have ideas, I would like to think that
they would get them to you or they know that you are available.
Councilman Stone-That is the most important thing is to make sure
we are available for input.
Supervisor Stec-Questioned those present, are we going in the right
direction with this plan, speak now…no one spoke… Noted he would
like to refer to this committee as the Super Planning Board.
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 386.2004
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 102
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR
ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
moves into an Executive Session to discuss personnel issues.
nd
Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING EXECUTIVE SESSION
RESOLUTION NO. 387.2004
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner WHO MOVED FOR
ITS ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Roger Boor
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns their Executive Session.
nd
Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
(No action taken in Executive Session - Gretchen Steffan was present
at the Executive Session)
RESOLUTION ADJOURNING SPECIAL TOWN BOARD
MEETING
RESOLUTION NO. 388.2004
INTRODUCED BY: Mr. Roger Boor WHO MOVED FOR ITS
ADOPTION
SECONDED BY: Mr. Theodore Turner
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING 08-02-2004 MTG. #33 103
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Queensbury hereby
adjourns its Special Town Board Meeting.
nd
Duly adopted this 2 day of August, 2004 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Boor, Mr. Turner, Mr. Strough, Mr. Stec
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mr. Brewer
Respectfully submitted,
Miss Darleen M. Dougher
Town Clerk-Queensbury