08-15-2023 (Queensbury Planning Board OS/15/2023)
QUEENSBURYPTANNINGBOARD MEETING
FIRSTREGUTAR MEETING
AUGUSTI5 ,2023
INDEX
Site Plan No.5-2023 Geraldine Eberlein 1.
FURTHER TABLING Tax Map No.227.17-1-25,227-17-1-24 (septic)
Site Plan No.1-2023 Stevin O'Brien&Mackenzie Baertschi 3.
Tax Map No.252.-1-SS
Site Plan No.53-2023 Elizabeth Hogan S.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No.2S9.14-1-27.2
Site Plan No.54-2023 Ibrahim Jamal(Cameron's Deli) 15.
ZBA RECOMMENDATION Tax Map No. 303.16-1-5S
Site Plan No.57-2023 Rachel's Bread,Cookies&More 16.
Special Use Permit 4-2023 Tax Map No.279.1E-1-6
Site Plan No.56-2023 New Potato Creek Holding LLC (Tidal Wave) 20.
Tax Map No.296.17-1-47
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTH'S MINUTES(IF ANY)AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 15TK,2023
7.00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
STEPHEN TRAVER,CHAIRMAN
DAVID DEEB,VICE CHAIRMAN
MICHAEL DIXON,SECRETARY
WARREN LONGACKER
BRADY STARK
BRAD MAGOWAN
NATHAN ETU
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-KAREN DWYRE
MR.TRAVER-Good evening,ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Town of Queensbury Planning Board
meeting for Tuesday,August 15`h,2023. This is our first meeting for August and our 17Th meeting thus far
for the year. If you would make note of the illuminated exit signs. Those are the emergency exits in the
event that you need to use them. If you have a cell phone or other electronic device, if you would either
turn it off or turn the ringer off we would appreciate that, so as not to interfere with our minute taking.
We also ask that, aside from the public hearing, I believe we have one public hearing this evening,if you
wish to have a conversation among yourselves,if you would go to the outer lobby to have that conversation,
again so as not to interfere with the recording of the meeting and therefore the minutes of the meeting.
And with that we'll begin. We do have a couple of administrative items this evening. The first is the
approval of minutes for the month of June,that is June 20 and June 22. Are there any questions or concerns,
changes to those minutes from members of the Board? Okay. We have a draft resolution.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
June 20,2023
June 22,2023
MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES OF TUNE
20`h&z TUNE 22n1 2023, Introduced by Michael Dixon who moved for its adoption, seconded by Brady
Stark:
Duly adopted this 151h day of August,2023,by the following vote:
AYES Mr. Longacker,Mr. Stark,Mr. Magowan,Mr. Etu,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR.TRAVER-The next is an administrative item for request to table Site Plan 5-2023,Geraldine Eberlein.
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM:
SITE PLAN 5-2023 GERALDINE EBERLEIN TABLE TO OCTOBER 17,2023 MEETING
MR. TRAVER-To the October 17 meeting. Laura?
MRS.MOO RE-So this applicant is working with the neighbors in regards to the septic. So they may have
anew plan coming in reference to the septic system itself. It won't change the project at this point,but I
know they're working on the septic system with the neighbors.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So are they thinking of doing some kind of a combined system or is it just the?
MRS. MOO RE-Yes,that's my understanding. It could change,but that was what I had heard.
MR.TRAVER-Interesting. So would they not have to get Board of Health approval prior to coming to us?
MRS. MOORE-They still have to go back to the Town Board.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
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MRS. MOORE-So that's what has to happen first. Hopefully it'll happen in September if that does, and
the applicant could come back to this Board in October,the Zoning Board as well.
MR. TRAVER-So the October date is reasonable?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Very good. All right. We have a draft resolution. Any questions,comments from
members of the Board regarding that tabling of the Eberlein? Okay.
RESOLUTION TABLING SP#5-2023 GERALDINE EBERLEIN
(Revised)Applicant proposes demolition of an existing home and guest cottage to construct a new home
with a footprint of 2,411 sq. ft., an outdoor kitchen of 234 sq. ft. and a new floor area of 3,343 sq. ft. The
project includes associated site work for newpermeable driveway,stormwater management,and shoreline
landscaping. The project includes installation of a new septic system on the adjoining property and moved
to the East property line.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN 5-2023 GERALDINE EBERLEIN. Introduced by Mike Dixon who
moved for its adoption,seconded by Brad Magowan.
Tabled until the October 17,2023 Planning Board meeting with information due by September 15,2023.
Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Magowan,Mr. Etu,Mr. Longacker,Mr. Stark,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Dixon, Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-Last but not least we have an Administrative Item which is resolution that will allow the
Town,if deemed appropriate,to appeal the ruling on the Hoffman Car Wash project. You might recall or
were notified or seen in the paper that a judge reviewing the objection to our ruling and that of the Zoning
Board ruling on that project was,the judge said that that decision was overturned and the clock is therefore
running on the Town of Queensbury to respond to the Judge's decision and we have a motion that's been
recommended by Staff for us to pass which does not initiate any action in terms of an appeal,but it does
preserve the Town's right to appeal should it be deemed necessary by Counsel. Any questions regarding
that? Okay. We have a draft resolution. I'm sorry,did you have anything you wanted to add,Laura?
MRS.MOO RE-No,I'm just listening. So there was information provided to each Board member via e-mail
and in this case one of the comments was in regards to this filing of notice of appeal to preserve our right
to make an appeal for them,the lawsuit that came to the Board.
MR. TRAVER-So this does not initiate any action on our part.
MR. MAGOWAN-I missed that. It wouldn't have come in our package,too?
MRS. MOORE-It came from Counsel. It didn't come from our office,but it doesn't mean I can't get you a
copy. I didn't realize you didn't get it.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes,I'm not comfortable until I read something on that.
MR. TRAVER-Well then you can vote no certainly.
MR. MAGOWAN-I don't know. Why would I want to vote no or yes? I can't abstain.
MR. TRAVER-You can abstain if you don't feel you have enough information to vote, but again, we're
taking no action. We're not indicating that we intend or that the Town intends to appeal or not. We
are simply acting on the clock, basically. We are preserving the right to such a decision should it be
deemed necessary by Counsel.
MR. MAGOWAN-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-So we're not adjudicating any opinion as to whether such an appeal or absence of such an
appeal is appropriate. We're simply making sure that that option remains open.
MR. MAGOWAN-Sounds fair. All right. Thank you.
MR. TRAVER-Any other questions,comments? Okay. You have that motion.
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RESOLUTION GRANTING FILING OF NOTICE OF APPEAL HOFFMAN DEVELOPMENT
As associated with a project as approved by the Planning Board and described as an applicant proposes a
5,750+/-sq.ft.car wash building with associated access drives and queuing lanes,and 1S self-serve vacuum
area. The applicant has included a sidewalk to be coordinated with others along the property line on
Weeks Road. Project includes site work for access onto Route 9 through existing traffic light and through
adjoining parcel and access on Weeks Road. Project also includes associated site work for landscaping,
lighting and stormwater.
MOTION TO APPROVE FILING NOTICE OF APPEAL IN THE MATTER OF WHISPERING
PINES ASSOCIATES VERSUS TOWN OF QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD;Introduced by Mike
Dixon who moved for its adoption,seconded by David Deeb.
According to the draft resolution prepared by Staff with the following:
The Planning Board agrees and approves Town Counsel should submit as necessary materials for Filing
Notice of Appeal in the matter of Whispering Pines Assoc.v. Town of Queensbury Planning Board,et al.
AYES: Mr. Stark,Mr. Longacker,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Magowan, Mr. Etu,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR.TRAVER-All right. Thank you,and now we move to our regular agenda,the first section being tabled
items. The first item being actually Unapproved Development. This is Stevin O'Brien and Mackenzie
B aertschi.
TABLED ITEM—UNAPPROVED DEVELOPMENT:
SITE PLAN NO.1-2023 SEAR TYPE: TYPE 11. STEVIN O'BRIEN&z MACKENZIE BAERTSCHI.
AGENT(S): HUTCHINS ENGINEERING. OWNER(S): SAME AS APPLICANT. ZONING: RR-
5A. LOCATION: 454 LOCKHART MOUNTAIN ROAD. (REVISED) THE APPLICANT IS
REQUESTING AFTER THE FACT APPROVAL FOR CLEARING LIMITS OF DISTURBANCE FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME&z SITE WORK. THE MAJOR STORMWATER
PERMIT AS BUILT CONDITIONS INDICATES DISTURBANCE OF 1.5 ACRES. THE SITE WORK
EXCEEDS 15,000 SO. FT. TRIGGERING A MAJOR STORMWATER AND SITE PLAN REVIEW.
APPROXIMATELY 33 EVERGREENS HAVE BEEN PLANTED AND ADDITIONAL PLANTINGS
ARE INTENDED. THE APPLICANT HAS CONSTRUCTED A SINGLE FAMILY HOME ON A LOT
OF THE HELEN MITCHELL SUBDIVISION WHICH MEETS SETBACK AND PERMEABILITY
REQUIREMENTS. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-4-040,147,SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR MAJOR
STORMWATER PERMIT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND
APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: RC 165-2021, SUB 1-2001. WARREN CO. REFERRAL:
JANUARY 2023. SITE INFORMATION: APA,LGPC,SLOPES. LOT SIZE: 5.01 ACRES. TAX
MAP NO.252.-1-88. SECTION: 179-3-040,147.
LUCAS DOBIE,REPRESENTING APPLICANTS,PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So this application is in reference to approval for clearing limits of disturbance for
construction of a single family home. The major stormwater permit as built conditions indicated
disturbance of greater than an acre. The site work exceeds 15,000 square feet triggering the major
stormwater review and it's back to this Board for Site Plan Review. In reference,the applicant was tabled
at the May 16`h meeting where the public hearing was closed. We have a revised landscape plan. Plans
show the limits of disturbance less than an acre and this is approximately 0.S7 acres and it's noted on the
drawings that were submitted to you as a Board. Approximately 33 evergreens have been planted and
additional plantings are noted in three areas. Area One of four trees. Area Two of seven trees and Area
Three of eight trees. I just have a note back to the applicant in reference to confirming the number of
trees. I think that's it.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you, Laura, and a question regarding public hearing. I understand that it's
noted on the agenda that the public hearing was closed in May,but our notes indicate that there is a public
hearing tonight. Do we re-open that public hearing or is it to remain closed?
MRS. MOORE-So I'll leave it up to the Board. There is a public comment,and if the Board wishes to hear
that information I can share it with you,but there was no advertisement.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So none is required but it's at our discretion? All right. Thank you for that
clarification. Good evening.
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MR. DOBIE-Good evening,Board. Thank you,Mr. Chairman and Board. For the record,Lucas Dobie of
Hutchins Engineering. As was said we were here in the middle of May. Had a productive discussion with
the Board, even though it was quite painful from our end to have an after the fact project,but we listened
to the Board,re-grouped with our clients and we've come back,put together a plan that we think makes
good sense for the site and we hope it's acceptable to the Board to come back with this project. It's been
a long haul,mostly on our end,not being able to get into the schedule. Quite frankly it's been out here for
awhile. We didn't make it last month. So we appreciate you taking us to this month to allow us to do a
good,thorough plan. Laura,. could you flip back to the previous page,please. I'd like to,this gets a little
confusing. So I'd like to get up and kind of point things out on the Board if I could.
MR. TRAVER-Yes,thank you.
MR. DOBIE-What we discussed last time was 1.5 acres total disturbance for the project,which is shown
in this green tree line from our project surveyor. Subsequent to that,I thoroughly investigated the site and
sited a bunch of existing mature trees shown in the green as best I could show to show, the point being
this is not a clear cut massacre. It was selectively over cleared,if you will. So this is not, we originally
showed this is just a clearing limit. So I wanted to make a point this this is not all open lawn area totally
massacred. There is a significant amount of mature pine mostly through there and then our client did put
33 additional evergreen along Lockhart Mountain Road as shown in the orange are the recently planted
trees. So as it stands today we're at about 1.15 acres of all that deforested area as it sits today. Our goal is
to bring it under one acre,which is in accordance with the original subdivision from 2001. The covenants
were one acre of disturbance per lot. So our plan is to get it under the acre when all is said and done,if
you will. So to do that we propose these additional areas of re-vegetation,re-forestation if you will. One
area here east of the driveway, west of the stone wall, and then this area I think is the most substantial
which has just a few mature pines and we propose to in-fill and to reclaim this area and then the area west
of the house as well. So when all is said and done, which this is grown in, we outline an area shown on
this gray phantom line which is 0.S7 acres. So when all is said and done,grown in,the non-forested area
of the site is under one acre and we discussed, at the advice of Mr. Navitsky, one tree per 700 square feet
of area is what we propose, a mix of deciduous and evergreens. So we articulated that per each area in
table over there, and that amounts to an additional 11 deciduous and eight evergreens in addition to what
our clients'already done.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So the question that I had, in looking at this layout that you have provided us, I
know that the goal really was to re-establish the forest in the area where it was going to be cut down. It
appears to me, and I'm certainly not a forester,but it appears to me that the density of what you propose
is nowhere near what the natural forest would be. Now you're saying that you've consulted with the
Waterkeeper who was part of the original agreement, I guess, regarding this property, and he supported
the density that you proposed on the plantings?
MR. DOBIE-I believe that was part of his comment last time, Mr. Chairman, was the one per 700 square
feet. That number also is for our shoreline buffering calculations, that one per 700. That's where we,
again,I'm not a forester either.
MR.TRAVE R-Right,right. I'm just going by the visual,but you're saying that there is some language that
supports that density.
MR. DOBIE-Yes,sir.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. All right. Thank you. Questions,comments from members of the Board?
MR. MAGOWAN-What's the ground cover going to be?
MR. DOBIE-Right now, we had some discussion with that as well. I'm open to more suggestions from
the Board. Right now when you walk the site,particularly the area east of the driveway that he did plant
seeds and stabilize the site. So it's lawn right now, and there was some discussion,well we don't want to
have a heartland,if you will, a few trees here and then beautiful manicured lawn. We want to restore the
forest. So I think what I would propose is to chip away at it, if you will. He's working to cut the grass
really, really short and then woodchip it would be my proposal. So that'll decay over time and as the
canopy grows. We can't just go in and strip the grass and expose the site again for erosion potential and
stuff would be my thoughts.
MR. LONGACKER-How about letting it just go wild?
MR. DOBIE-I'm not quite sure what you mean by that?
MR.LONGACKER Just like the,you know,native grasses,trees,shrubs,whatever,just kind of fill in there
on its own without mowing it?
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MR. DOBIE-It has a good lawn mix right now. So it would be a perfect weedy. We'd have to cut that
back,but I'm open to suggestions certainly. I'm not a landscaper by any means.
MR. DIXON-I think last time we had spoken we were talking about just letting it go wild and not
maintain. Now you're proposal,you're saying if you were to put down bark mulch that would eliminate
their ability to get in there and mow?
MR. DOBIE-Right. That was like a woodchip product that you see from chippings from a tree company
or something,but that may be more work than it's worth.
MR. DIXON-I think it's an additional expense,too,versus,again,letting it remain in a wild state.
MR.TRAVER-Any other questions,comments from members of the Board? Does anyone have any opinion
regarding ground cover or recommendations? That's not my area of expertise. The proposal would be to
cut the,as it stands now,from the applicant's representative,would be to cut the grass very short and cover
the area with a woodchip or a mulch, some kind of a mulch product which might allow for natural
development of wild seeds and so on,trees,more trees.
MR. DEEB-Is that,or are you okay with letting it grow wild?
MR. DOBIE-I'd like to back off from that.
MR. DEEB-Yes. That's what I thought.
MR. DOBIE-Or maybe around the trees for a certain diameter so that weeds don't overtake the trees.
MR. DEEB-And let the vegetation grow.
MR. TRAVER-Well,I just think it's important that we get it on the record.
MR. DEEB-It's got to be in the resolution.
MR. TRAVER-So we'll figure out what we need to do with that. So you're proposing to bark around the
circumference of the newly planted trees? To what diameter would you suggest?
MR. DOBIE-I would say to a six to eight foot diameter.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MAGOWAN-What size trees?
MR. DOBIE-That's another item we wanted to discuss with the Board was our proposal, speaking with
my client, for deciduous, two inch caliper. We went back and looked at our typical details for planting
plans from previous projects,most of the tree lists I see two to two and a half inch caliper trees are pretty
typical,root ball bag. I propose a two inch caliper for the deciduous and then five to six foot height for
the evergreens.
MR. MAGOWAN-The only concern, there's a lot of deer up there. New trees. Are they going to pull
through the winter?
MR. DIXON-I think as the applicant you'd be responsible for replacing any trees that don't make it?
MR. DOBIE-Yes,we're certainly agreeable to that.
MR. TRAVER-So if they get eaten over the winter, you'll replace them next summer or something next
spring?
MR. DOBIE-That's certainly reasonable. This would be an approved plan that needs to be maintained
through the years for disease.
MR. ETU-You mentioned a shoreline setback with regard to the 700 square foot. I think the shoreline
setback,not that you have one here,but they require a three inch breadth diameter?
MR. DOBIE-I don't know that off the top of my head.
MR. ETU-It's coming up,the application after you.
MR. DEEB-Three inch caliper is what sticks in my head,too.
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MR. TRAVER-Any other questions, comments for the applicant? We're working on a resolution. The
public hearing is actually closed,but I will ask of the audience,is there anyone here tonight because of this
application? I'm not seeing any takers. Are there any new written comments,Laura?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MRS.MOO RE-So I do have anew written comment from the Lake George Waterkeeper. Would you like
me to read that into the record?
MR. TRAVER-Yes,please.
MRS. MOORE-This is addressed to Mr. Traver. "The above referenced Unapproved Development Site
Plan application was personally reviewed in my capacity as a licensed professional engineer and the Lake
George Waterkeeper. The Town of Queensbury recognition and review of Unapproved Development is
appreciated as well as the recommended replanting density guidance of one tree per 700sf of clearing. The
Lake George Waterkeeper requests the Planning Board consider the following during your deliberations
for the above referenced Unapproved Development Site Plan. The actual restoration area should be 0.50
acres to reduce the cleared area to under 1.0 acres, which is the limit on the restrictions of the
property. Current calculations only show a total reclaimed area of 0.34 acres. The Planning Board
must require a minimum restoration/reclamation area of 0.5 acres. The applicant should specify the
size and condition of the existing mature trees. The applicant is claiming "substantial areas were
preserved"from clearing and stated 15 mature trees remain. The size and condition of these trees should be
verified, especially if these areas are to be included in the restored areas to meet to 1 acre clearing limit as
per the restrictions on the property. There is concern grading activities may have compromised the vitality
of the trees. The applicant has failed to include the species or size of the trees to be planted. It is
important to have sufficient caliber size to support mature growth. It is also recommended that hemlock
not be planted due to the discovery of the Hemlock Wooly Adelgid pest in the Lake George basin and the
potential loss of those trees.The Planning Board should condition any approval that the trees shall not
be disturbed and have a guarantee on replacement of any trees that do not survive and/or are
removed. The Lake George Waterkeeper looks forward to working with the Town of Queensbury
Planning Board to defend the natural resources of Lake George and its watershed. Thank you for your
consideration. Sincerely,Christopher Navitsky,PE Lake George Waterkeeper"
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. So they're recommending against hemlock because of the algae. So I
assume you don't have a problem with that?
MR. DOBIE-No,that's fine.
MR. DEEB-I think everything else was covered.
MR. DOBIE-I think we addressed most of it. Yes.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So this is SEQR Type II.
MR. DIXON-So in lieu of the proposed hemlocks,is there,just replaced with any evergreen?
MRS. MOORE-Evergreen.
MR. DIXON-Code compliant evergreen.
MR. ETU-Would you start and complete the planting this year?
MR. DOBIE-I would imagine he would start this fall. I don't know if he would get it all done,but by the
next year.
MR. DEEB-So are you going to include a timeframe in the resolution?
MR. TRAVER-A timeframe for implementation,yes.
MR. ETU-Well I'm wondering if something's planted this year, and according to the Waterkeeper, in
terms of it surviving,would it survive?
MR. DIXON-Do we want this completed within 12 months,this time next year or by spring?
MR. TRAVER-Why don't we see if we can get the trees planted, the proposed additional trees planted
this fall. So say within six months. Any that don't make it to be replaced.
MR. DEEB-Is that a possibility? Will that work?
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MR. DOBIE-Well we'll give it our best shot.
MR. DIXON-Do we want planting of trees or just reforestation?
MR. TRAVER-Well I think there was proposed a specific number. Did I see 33 have been planted. So
how many total additional trees would you be planting?
MR. DOBIE-Eleven deciduous and eight evergreen.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. DIXON-I know there was conversation as far as ringing the trees with mulch. If we put it in the
resolution that they're going to be ringed with mulch,then you'd have to mulch the trees. So I would that
that could just be optional. That's on them if they want to ring them or not. I don't think that has any
bearing on us.
MR. TRAVER-Well I think it's important to have some kind of a plan for groundcover. So what's
proposed is ring each newly planted tree from six to eight feet with bark. Would you say bark would be
a description or mulch?
MR. DOBIE-I would say woodchips or mulch.
MR. TRAVER-Woodchips or mulch,six to eight feet out from each tree.
MR. DOBIE-Maybe six to eight foot diameter.
MR. DIXON-All right.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP#1-2023 STEVIN O'BRIEN&MACKENZIE BAERTSCHI
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board: (Revised) The applicant is requesting
after the fact approval for clearing limits of disturbance for construction of a single family home and site
work. The major stormwater permit as built conditions indicates disturbance of 1.5 acres. The site work
exceeds 15,000 sq.ft.triggering a major stormwater and site plan review. The applicant has constructed a
single family home on a lot of the Helen Mitchell Subdivision which meets setback and permeability
requirements. Pursuant to chapter 179-4-040, 147, site plan review for major stormwater permit shall be
subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-OSO, the Planning
Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the Zoning Code;
As required by General Municipal Law Section 239-m the site plan application was referred to the Warren
County Planning Department for its recommendation;
The Planning Board opened a public hearing on the Site plan application on 1/17/2023 and continued the
public hearing to 5/16/2023,when it was closed,
The Planning Board has reviewed the application materials submitted by the applicant and all comments
made at the public hearing and submitted in writing through and including 5/16/2023;
The Planning Board determines that the application complies with the review considerations and
standards set forth in Article 9 of the Zoning Ordinance for Site Plan approval,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 1-2023 STEVIN O'BRIEN &z MACKENZIE BAERTSCHI;
Introduced by Mike Dixon who moved for its adoption.
According to the draft resolution prepared by Staff with the following:
1) Waivers requested granted:h. signage,n traffic,o. commercial alterations/construction details,r.
construction/demolition disposal and s. snow removal;
2) The approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval. Applicant is responsible for
requesting an extension of approval before the one (1)year time frame has expired.
3) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
a) The limits of clearing will constitute a no-cut buffer zone, orange construction fencing shall
be installed around these areas and field verified by Community Development staff,
b) If applicable, the Sanitary Sewer connection plan must be submitted to the Wastewater
Department for its review, approval,permitting and inspection;
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c) If curb cuts are being added or changed a driveway permit is required. A building permit will not
be issued until the approved driveway permit has been provided to the Planning Office;
d) If application was referred to engineering then Engineering sign-off required prior to signature of
Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
e) Final approved plans should have dimensions and setbacks noted on the site plan/survey, floor
plans and elevation for the existing rooms and proposed rooms in the building and site
improvements;-
f) If required,the applicant must submit a copy of the following to the Town:
a. The project NOI (Notice of Intent) for coverage under the current "NYSDEC SPDES
General Permit from Construction Activity"prior to the start of any site work.
b. The project NOT(Notice of Termination)upon completion of the project;
c. The applicant must maintain on their project site,for review by staff:
i. The approved final plans that have been stamped by the Town Zoning
Administrator. These plans must include the project SWPPP (Storm Water
Pollution Prevention Plan)when such a plan was prepared and approved;
ii. The project NOI and proof of coverage under the current NYSDEC SPDES General
Permit,or an individual SPDES permit issued for the project if required.
g) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building and
Codes personnel;
h) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work;
i) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
j) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy.
k) This resolution is to be placed in its entirety on the final plans.
1) Lands that are in the reforested area will have ground cover left to be wild and trees that are
being planted will be ringed with mulch or bark with a 6-8 foot diameter.
m) Applicant to replace any tree being planted that should not survive.
n) Proposed hemlocks to be substituted with code compliant evergreen trees.
o) Tree plantings will be completed within 6 months, including 11 deciduous trees and 8
evergreen trees.
Motion seconded by Brady Stark. Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Etu,Mr. Stark,Mr. Magowan,Mr. Longacker,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-You are all set.
MR. DOBIE-Thanks for your help.
MR. TRAVER-Thanks for your efforts to try to clarify this.
MR. MAGOWAN-Thanks,Lucas.
MR. TRAVER-The next section of our agenda is recommendations to the Zoning Board of Appeals. The
first one is another Unapproved Development project. This is Elizabeth Hogan,Site Plan 53-2023.
PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS:
(UNAPPROVED DEVELOPMENT) SITE PLAN NO.53-2023 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. ELIZABETH
HOGAN. O WNER(S): SAME AS APPLICANT. ZONING: WR. LOCATION: 105 FITZGERALD
ROAD. APPLICANT REQUESTS TO MAINTAIN A 42 SQ. FT. SAUNA BUILDING AN A 46 SQ.
FT.LEAN-TO BUILDING BOTH WITHIN 50 FT.OF THE SHORELINE. THE SAUNA AND LEAN-
TO WERE CONSTRUCTED AS AMENITIES TO THE LAKE. THE EXISTING 1,682 SQ.FT.HOME
TO REMAIN UNCHANGED. THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AND STEPS ARE ALSO TO
REMAIN UNCHANGED. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040 &z 179-6-065, SITE PLAN FOR
NEW FLOOR AREA IN A CEA,AND HARD SURFACING WITHIN 50 FT. OF THE SHORELINE
SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF
IS SOUGHT FOR SETBACKS. PLANNING BOARD SHALL PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION
TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. CROSS REFERENCE: AV 20-2015,SUB 8-2008,AV 27-
2023. WARREN CO.REFERRAL: N/A. SITE INFORMATION: CEA. LOT SIZE: 2.42 ACRES.
TAX MAP NO. 289.14-1-27.2. SECTION: 179-3-040,179-6-065.
ELIZABETH HOGAN,PRESENT
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MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-The applicant requests to maintain a 42 square foot sauna building and a 46 square foot
lean-to building,both were within 50 feet of the shoreline. The sauna and lean-to were constructed as
amenities to the lake. The existing home of 1,652 square feet remains unchanged, and the variance is in
reference to setbacks where the sauna is 24.5 feet from the shoreline The lean-to is 17 feet where 50 feet
setback from the shoreline is required.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. HOGAN-Good evening. Elizabeth Hogan for the record. Initially we did not intend on having this
be a sauna. I had started the process of getting the application and getting the survey, and my nephew
and my son built the sauna together. It's been on a trailer. We brought it in temporarily.
MR. TRAVER-So it's a temporary trailer,it's not part of the ground?
MS. HOGAN-Not yet.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MS. HOGAN-Once it gets approved,we'll have lots of people.
MR. DEEB-Can you move it back? Can you move it?
MS. HOGAN-Yes. They took it out of our garage just this morning.
MR. DEEB-I see. So once it's setup it'll be past 50 feet. It'll be within compliance?
MS.HOGAN-No. The way the topography of the lake is,there's a flat area off the shore that has about one
section where the lean-to is,it's about 20 feet back,and it goes up 30 feet,and it's the same with the sauna.
The sauna,it will be back 25 feet and it will be five feet off the property line.
MR.TRAVER-So I know that there's a Glen Lake Protective Association. Were they the ones that notified
the Town?
MS. HOGAN-No.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MS.HOGAN-I started way before,when they went and bought the cedar,I said okay you can't just do this.
And then it took eight months for the surveyor. Laura was my first call.
MR. TRAVER-So what's the story with the sauna? When was that constructed?
MS. HOGAN-The lean-to?
MR. TRAVER-No,I think the lean-to is the one on the trailer. Right?
MS. HOGAN-No,no. The lean-to has been there.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Since when? Was it there when you bought the property?
MS.HOGAN-That was an area,when we bought the property that's where,there was like a boat that was
there and some junk gathered, and actually it was our neighbor that said hey I've got a shed, do you want
to put it here.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Well there's a couple of issues with this. Obviously it's not compliant in terms of
the setback. This is also in what is deemed a Critical Environmental Area, which make it even more
important that the setbacks be observed. The other issue,for us,is that if this,if we allow this violation
of the setback and someone, a neighbor wants to build something the same distance away,it's difficult for
us to approve your project and not approve what somebody else is coming along with, and I understand
and you mentioned that this is an amenity to the lake,but part of the reason for the setback is to make sure
that everybody else around the lake has the same enjoyment of the lake and when you intrude upon that
setback in a way you intrude upon everybody else's amenities to the lake,if you will. So I think,as David
was suggesting, I think the best resolution would be maybe to put the lean-to on top of the hill or
something so that it's back away from the lake outside the setback. That would resolve the issue,as far as
we're concerned. Do you see the position that it puts us in?
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MS.HOGAN-Well I think part of the reason that I initially didn't think it was that big of a deal is because
where the lean-to is is right next to our neighbors the Marshals and the lean-to is farther back from the
lake than the Marshal's house is.
MR. TRAVER-But that is something that was built, that was not built subject to the, I mean it wasn't
reviewed. It was probably an old camp.
MS. HOGAN-Right. They put a porch on it that's closer to the lake. And I understand that it would be
ideal to move it back. The trouble is with the way the topography of the land is,there's also just a small
flat area 30 feet up where the is and that makes it very difficult as well. We really built it to make it look
nicer there, so that there weren't skis everywhere. I think it's 54 stairs to get to the top. It's not a quick
little j aunt,and the other thing is our property,I think some of you,I don't know if it was the Zoning Board
or people from here who went and looked, it must have been the Zoning Board. When you look at the
property from the lake,you really,you can't even see the lake. We have so many trees,compared to other
places on the lake, I bet you no one even knows we have a lean-to there because it's behind like five trees
from the water. You don't see it.
MR. TRAVER-We did see some photographs that you submitted along with your application.
MS. HOGAN-If the topography was different, I definitely would have moved it back to comply with the
regulations,but I think there's a unique position in that the topography is such that it's not easy to do that
and it would take away parking as well, and I think the end result would be that stuff would just be
scattered and that would look horrible.
MR. DIXON-Do you recall the nature of the variances that we gave you,I think it was two years ago. It
was about two years ago when you were in front of the Board? Did you have a septic system going in
across the road?
MS. HOGAN-I just came to talk about it because that septic system was going into.
MR. DIXON-All right. I was going to say,you look familiar. Thank you.
MR. DEEB-I'm looking at the diagram. You said how many steps are there at the end?
MS. HOGAN-I think it's 54.
MR. DEEB-And it goes straight up? How many feet?
MS.HOGAN-It's a 30 feet,you know it's an esker there,from where the shore is,I mean actually you're up
a little from the shore. It's 30 feet to where the house is.
MR. DEEB-And it's labeled shed,the lean-to?
MS. HOGAN-Yes.
MR. DEEB-So that's the lean-to. Okay, and right behind that,is it a vertical?
MS. HOGAN-Actually we built it into the hill. My husband is an engineer so he used the concrete
sandbags and carried them all down the stairs. Yes,we built it into the hill.
MR. TRAVER-But at the time that you built that,you didn't think that it required any review?
MS. HOGAN-No,because I thought that it was less than the 120 square feet. And it didn't have a door.
MR. DEEB-What are the dimensions of it?
MR. TRAVER-It's 46 square feet.
MS. HOGAN-It's wider in the front and shorter in the back.
MR. DEEB-It's not real big.
MR. TRAVER-No.
MS. HOGAN-No. It really has skis, ropes like this and in the winter that's where I throw the swinging
chair.
MR. TRAVER-So it's a lean-to, when I think of a lean-to, I think of something to go camping in or
something that is like a porch.
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MR. ETU-From the pictures I would call it a shed.
MR. TRAVER-So you're saying it's really to store water accessories?
MS. HOGAN-Yes. All it has in it is those little life vests,ski ropes,skis. Nothing else fits in there.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. ETU-I was going to say,it looks like it has electricity.
MS. HOGAN-Yes.
MR. ETU-There's a floodlight on it.
MS. HOGAN-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-So the lean-to is built into the hill. The sauna is the one that's on the trailer.
MS. HOGAN-Right.
MR. TRAVER-Now how did you get the trailer down the hill?
MS. HOGAN-The Nolan Camp Road.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. DIXON-How is the sauna heated? Wood fired,gas? I couldn't tell.
MS. HOGAN-Wood.
MR. DIXON-All right.
MS. HOGAN-Yes, and then they jump in the lake, all winter long.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Well this is, again, for information, this is not Site Plan Review. This is a
recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for unapproved development and the variance requested
for setbacks in the Critical Environmental Area. Are there any other questions, comments for the
applicant from members of the Board?
MR. ETU-Are we treating it as two different,because it's two different structures,two different requests
for setbacks or relief?
MRS. MOORE-It's all one application. So if you wish to separate it I guess you can.
MR. ETU-My thinking is the shed or the lean-to looks like it's been there for a while. It's serving sort of
a water sport function and the sauna's easily movable and when we have Unapproved Development it's all
about,gosh,we've got to bring a crane in here now,but in this case we just need to bring a four-wheel in
and till the thing out and it's four feet from the property line. It's 17 feet from the shoreline and it's
encroaching quite a bit.
MR.TRAVER-Yes,I don't mind. I mean I guess I think of them really separately as well really even though
it's one application,I think in terms of making a recommendation to the ZBA. I mean again it's a concern
because we know after our last training session with the Counsel that this does set a precedent if this is
approved. Now we haven't approved this. It would have to come back to us for Site Plan Review,but
the issue is that now other folks that want to do something similar within the setback in a Critical
Environmental Area are going to have an argument against our not approving it. That's an issue, but I
agree that the idea of,I mean it's described as lean-to,but it's used for storage of water recreation materials,
if it's conditional on that,is not as much of a concern to me as having people using it, spending time in it,
and therefore generating the byproducts of a human presence, you know, that close to the water. The
sauna,it can be moved and so that could be possibly approved provided that it's,you know,it's been set
back,but other questions,comments?
MR. DEEB-Is there anywhere you can put that sauna,other than where it is?
MS. HOGAN-No, and I think it has to be five feet from the property line and it will be five feet, and right
now it shows it as four,but that's because it's on a trailer. Because the hill,if you look at,right next to
the stairway,the well is down at the base of the stairs. I guess there you can see.
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MR. TRAVER-Yes,there's the contour intervals. Thank you.
MS. HOGAN-So when we move it in, we'll move it as close to that last square of the stairs as well, so it
won't be as noticeable. It'll be tucked in right.
MR. TRAVER-Again,though,understanding our position,you're not the only house on the lake that has
a steep,I mean the Glen Lake by its very nature tends to have a lot of properties that have that hill going
down to the lake, and other homeowners have had to contend with that and have complied with the
setback when they've been doing new construction or new projects. So again after your comment I think
with the condition that the shed for the water sports devices is conditioned upon that being its use,I think
that's less of a concern,even though it's within a setback and in a Critical Environmental Area,as opposed
to the sauna, wood burning sauna,with people using that so close to the lake. That,to me,is a concern.
I sympathize with your wanting it down by the lake,but I don't see any reason why it can't be moved up,
if you really want to use the sauna,why it can't be moved back to another part of the property and be used
and save the impact to the lake That's my own feeling. Other folks?
MR. LONGACKER-When I first reviewed it I didn't realize it was still on a skid or still on a trailer, and
just looking at your neighbor's property you can see all their sheds on the other side of Fitzgerald Road or
at least within 50 feet. My initial thought was maybe move the shed back. You have it on a trailer. I
agree with you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe move it up by the parking area or garage. You have two acres of
land plus. There's got to be some sort of flat area out there where you can put that closer to the residence.
MR. TRAVER-Other comments that people want to communicate to the ZBA?
MR.DIXON-Mr.Chairman,I've got two on here. So one,essentially you're really just saying the proximity
of the sauna to the setbacks is one of our concerns? And then the shed is,if I'm hearing it correctly, the
shed is not a concern if the use remains only for water sport?
MR. TRAVER-Well both of them,my feeling is both are a concern. I think the shed,if it is conditioned
upon the storage, only for the storage of water sports equipment,you know, I think I could live with the
variance for that. The sauna I think needs to be moved outside the setback in the Critical Environmental
Area. That's my,I mean that's my feeling. I'm just speaking for myself,obviously.
MS. HOGAN-Can I make a comment?
MR. TRAVER-Sure.
MS. HOGAN-So I know on some parts of Fitzgerald Road people have their amenities farther back from
the lake,but everyone who's on the,I guess it's called Fitzgerald Road Extension because it's a private road
that leads in. There's like 10 houses, they all have everything within 50 feet of the water. I mean their
houses are all within 50 feet. It's because that particular part is right on the esker.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MS. HOGAN-And the other thing is before we used to have,before we had the sauna down there,we had
a fire pit. We would all sit down there and we'd have fires, roast marshmallows. It's not that much
different,the wood burning sauna,than what we were doing before. And I worry about kids in the sauna
running down those 50 stairs in the winter.
MR. ETU-To me there's a difference between personal property and real property, and as we learned in
our real estate licenses real property is attached to the ground. Personal property right now is what the
sauna is,but the second it comes off the trailer it becomes real property and that gets more subject to the
setbacks I think. And to your point,you're saying everybody else is doing it,and that's to your point we're
saying well that's what we're trying to avoid, and if there's ever a time to avoid it, it's when the thing's
already on the trailer it can be moved. So when the next applicant comes by and says,well you could have
moved it just by putting it up the hill. You didn't force them to do that,but.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean there's an ongoing issue with pre-existing structures and that's why we're
trying to tighten the regulations as far as the Critical Environmental Area and the setbacks and so on and
I mean I sympathize in buying a piece of property,you know, where you have a steep hill going down to
the lake,but I don't see how we can be responsible for that.
MR. DEEB-May I ask how long you've been there?
MS. HOGAN-Twelve years.
MR. ETU-Some of these homes must have been built before the CEA was created. Right?
MS. HOGAN-I'm sure.
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MR.TRAVER-So does anyone want to add or have comments,additional comments for the ZBA regarding
this? Does anyone have an issue with the shed,if it's conditioned on water sports equipment? That's also
obviously within the setback and within the Critical Environmental Area.
MR. STARK-Isn't that what she's using it for already just to store water sports?
MR.TRAVER-That's what she's saying. So all we'd need to do is condition it that that's specifically what
it's for. Even then it's still within the CEA,but it's a little easier to swallow.
MR. STARK-No,I've got you. It's in there.
MR. TRAVER-As opposed to something like the sauna where there's people and things of that nature.
Okay. Well we have a draft resolution,then.
MR. DIXON-And again on the sauna itself, again,I just keep hearing that the concern is proximity to the
setbacks. Because if she can take care of the setbacks,then she'd be okay.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, although that would be for Site Plan Review. Right now we're just looking for the
variance,whether we want to support the variance or not,and my feeling is conditionally we could perhaps
at site plan support the shed but not the sauna.
MR. DEEB-Unless she gets her variance.
MR. TRAVER-Yes,unless the ZBA decides that it's not an issue.
MS. HOGAN-That's tomorrow.
MR. DEEB-You go through this again tomorrow. Well we can send it to them.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, and that's our duty tonight.
MS. HOGAN-There are trees all around this.
MR. DEEB-You can hardly see it.
MR.DIXON-So I just want to get the wording correct. So our concern is we're not in support of the sauna
area.
MR. TRAVE R-Right. Not within the setback. I mean,I don't have an objection to a sauna. I just don't
think it should be part of the Critical Environmental Area setback.
MR. MAGOWAN-See the way I look at it we have actually two unapproved projects. We've got one
that's already in the bank,kind of hidden. I don't really have a big problem with the shed, even though I
know so many people would like to have a shed down closer to the lake for the water sports and we always
say no,but that one you put in and it's in there. I really like the design of the sauna and do you know how
heavy that sauna is?
MS. HOGAN-It fits eight people. It's cedar.
MR. MAGOWAN-Because,you know,looking at the plan,there's no way you can get that up the hill and
then kind of build a cradle to it and tie it into that,you know,like the second landing?
MS. HOGAN-Then you couldn't get downstairs.
MR. TRAVER-Would that be within the setback still?
MR. MAGOWAN-Well it's bringing it further back. Fifty feet is right on the corner of that first,the first
landing.
MR.TRAVER-Well I think that the extent of any variance,in terms of howmany feet,would be something
the ZBA would consider. Our main,right now what we're looking at is the request of a variance for where
it's located on the property. Now they might comeback and say no problem. Or they might comeback
and say we'll give you a variance if it's 49 feet or they might come back and say it has to be,you know,that's
really up to them to decide, whether or not they would grant a variance and if so what the extent of that
variance would be,and then it would come back to us for,we would get the final word on Site Plan Review.
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MS. HOGAN-To answer your question,though,it may be possible but it would be a lot harder. It could
go right,we couldn't go over the hill there because the well is also right on where the first landing from the
water is. There's a stone wall that covers the well to the house.
MR. MAGOWAN-I don't know if it's a rock ledge. I mean you cut the shed in. I was just thinking of
kind of a compromise. Because as the Chairman said, unfortunately people are going to say, well you
allowed it here, and it puts us in a very difficult spot.
MR. TRAVER-So did you have any specifics that you wanted to add to the resolution for the ZBA?
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes. See if they couldn't relocate it up the hill more.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Well I think we've said that. All right. So I guess we're ready for that resolution.
I'll ask one other time, does anyone have any other comments? All right. I guess we're ready for that
motion.
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: AV#27-2023 ELIZABETH HOGAN
The applicant has submitted an application for the following: Applicant requests to maintain a 42 sq. ft.
sauna building and a 46 sq. ft. lean-to building both within 50 ft. of the shoreline. The sauna and lean-to
were constructed as amenities to the lake. The existing 1,652 sq. ft. home to remain unchanged. The
existing site conditions and steps are also to remain unchanged. Pursuant to chapter 179-3-040 &179-6-
065,site plan for new floor area in a CEA, and hard surfacing within 50 ft.of the shoreline shall be subject
to Planning Board review and approval. Variance: Relief is sought for setbacks. Planning Board shall
provide a recommendation to the Zoning Board of appeals
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance,per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning Board to
provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning
Board of Appeals&Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application,the relief request in the variance
application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and surrounding
community,and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE 27-2023 ELIZABETH HOGAN. Introduced
by Mike Dixon who moved for its adoption, and
The Planning Board,based on a limited review,has identified the following areas of concern:
1) Being not in support of having the sauna within the shoreline area setback within the CEA.
2) In regards to the shed/lean-to if conditioned only for water sports equipment, it is less of a
concern.
Motion seconded by Brady Stark. Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
MRS. MOORE-Can I just point something out? Sorry,usually you say discussion. I apologize. So the
CEA setback,so the setback is not the same as the CEA designation. So shoreline setback within the CEA.
MR. TRAVER-Right.
MRS. MOORE-Would be a better term.
MR. MAGOWAN-Did you say that was a kit sauna or you built it?
MS.HOGAN-My son and nephew. They go to college. They saw a kit online and they just went out and
bought it.
AYES: Mr. Deeb,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Longacker,Mr. Stark, Mr. Magowan,Mr. Etu,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-You are off to the ZBA.
MR. DEEB-Good luck.
MR.TRAVER-Okay. The next is recommendation to the ZBA for Ibrahim Jamal for Cameron's Deli. This
is Site Plan 54-2023.
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SITE PLAN NO. 54-2023 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. IBRAHIM JAMAL (CAMERON'S DELI).
AGENT(S): BOHLER ENGINEERING. OWNER(S): QUEENSBURY AVENUE,LLC. ZONING:
CM. LOCATION: 446 DIX AVENUE. APPLICANT PROPOSES A 1,818 SQ.FT. SINGLE STORY
CONVENIENCE STORE ADDITION TO AN EXISTING 3,514 SQ.FT.DELI THAT WILL REMAIN
WITH ACCESS TO EACH USE INTERNALLY. THE EXISTING BUILDING IS FOR CAMERON'S
DELI AND CURRENTLY HAS A BASEMENT AND A GARAGE WITH A SECOND STORY. THE
PROJECT INCLUDES CONSTRUCTION OF A 1,458 SQ. FT. GAS CANOPY WITH 6 FUELING
STATIONS. THE SITE WORK INCLUDED STORMWATER MANAGEMENT,LIGHTING AND
LANDSCAPING. PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040, SITE PLAN FOR A NEW
COMMERCIAL USE IN THE CM ZONE SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW
AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF IS SOUGHT FOR SETBACKS. PLANNING BOARD
SHALL PROVIDE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. CROSS
REFERENCE: SP 34-95,SP 60-2016,AV 31-2023. WARREN CO. REFERRAL: AUGUST 2023.
LOT SIZE: 1.35 ACRES. TAX MAP NO. 303.16-1-58. SECTION: 179-3-040.
ETHAN HALL&CARYN MLODZIANOWSKI, REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-This application is an addition of l,S1S square feet single story convenience store addition
to an existing 3,514 square foot deli building. The existing building is the Cameron's Deli. The addition
includes a convenience store and then it's associated with the construction of a 1,45E square foot gas
canopy with six fueling stations. It's the gas canopy that requires the setback variance.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Good evening.
MR. TRAVER-Tell us about your project.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI Just for the record, Caryn Mlodzianowski with Bohler Engineering here with
Ethan Hall, architect on the project. Also with us this evening is the owner,Ibrahim Jamal. The subject
parcel is located at 446 Dix Avenue,at the corner of Dix Avenue and Queensbury Avenue, about 1.35 acres
in size. The current property is developed with Cameron's Deli with the parking field around it, access
from Dix Avenue and access from Queensbury Avenue. It would be proposed to remain as an existing
parking lot and building and we're proposing an addition to the building of about IS30 plus or minus
square feet,a convenience store use,along with a 1,45E square foot gas canopy that would have three fueling
islands with six fueling points total. As mentioned the setback requirement here for that canopy is 75 feet
and we're at 56.9 feet with a front yard setback from Dix Avenue which essentially pulls that canopy closer
that what the Code allows at 75 feet,but what we've tried to do here is keep everything pulled forward as
you can see to maximize the green space in the rear as much as possible with this development. We are
proposing some additional parking spaces here. This is that building addition we just discussed and a
small patio area for seating that's out here. This would have circulation around it with the fuel tanks here
and then again maximizing that green space. The remainder of that green space area would be left for a
new septic system,upsized for this development,landscaping. This is the access I mentioned back here
keeping the Dix Avenue and then the existing Queensbury Avenue access is over here, again,keeping this
parking field. Due to these proposed improvements,we are adding a few more parking spaces. So we'll
beat 4S total including the fueling points where 43 are required for the size of this use. As far as utilities,
again,we're on septic here. That'll be improved and connected to water,keeping the sign that's there and
we're here for that recommendation for relief to pull that canopy closer.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. What about traffic impacts? This is obviously going to increase traffic to and from
the site and the gas canopy. So I had a question about that,and I think I saw a photograph,it looked like
a Stewarts or something. Is that just an example?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-An example canopy.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right. Do you have a,is there a brand of fuel that you plan on selling?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Not selected at this time.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right. Questions,comments from members of the Board?
MR. DIXON-I'll comment. I think it's a nice project at face value, but when it comes back to Site Plan
Review I guess I would just be prepared to discuss as far as buffering between the neighbors. Lighting,
because it did look like there was some lighting that spills over ever so slightly into the neighbor's area,
and with a project like this and in an older neighborhood, are you aware of any of the homes,if they have
wells or anything of that nature?
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MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-None that we're aware of,but we can confirm the wells.
MR. DIXON-And I think it would be helpful if we could see where the wells are noted,if there are any,on
your site plan,but as far as the variances,I was fine.
MR. TRAVER-So this is, let's see, this would be what, 15, no 19 feet variance from the 75 foot variance,
something like that. Right?
MR. DEEB-I think the buffer was a big question as well.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. Well it's certainly,the facility as it stands it certainly seems to be attractive and well
maintained. So that's a plus.
MR. DEEB-It's certainly an ambitious project.
MR. TRAVER-It is. Yes.
MR. MAGOWAN-I hope you've all visited the Deli. The food's good,too.
MR. TRAVER-So again our business with this project this evening is specifically regarding reference to
the Zoning Board of Appeals as they consider the request for the setback variance of 56.9 versus the 75 feet
that's normally required. Does anyone have any concerns or comments that we want to forward to the
ZBA as they review that part of the project? Then it would be returning to us for Site Plan Review. No?
Okay. All right. Then I guess we're ready for that motion..
RESOLUTION RE: ZBA RECOMMENDATION RE: AV#31-2023 IBRAHIM JAMAL(CAMERON'S)
The applicant has submitted an application for the following:Applicant proposes a 1,S1S sq.ft.single story
convenience store addition to an existing 3,514 sq. ft. deli that will remain with access to each use
internally. The existing building is for Cameron's deli and currently has a basement and garage with a
second story. The project includes construction of a 1,45E sq. ft. gas canopy with 6 fueling stations. The
site work included stormwater management,lighting and landscaping.Pursuant to chapter 179-3-040,site
plan for a new commercial use in the CM zone shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Variance: Relief is sought for setbacks. Planning Board shall provide a recommendation to the Zoning
Board of Appeals.
The Town of Queensbury Zoning Ordinance,per Section 179-9-070 J 2 b. requires the Planning Board to
provide a written recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals for projects that require both Zoning
Board of Appeals&Planning Board approval;
The Planning Board has briefly reviewed and discussed this application,the relief request in the variance
application as well as the potential impacts of this project on the neighborhood and surrounding
community,and found that:
MOTION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON BEHALF OF THE PLANNING BOARD TO THE
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS FOR AREA VARIANCE 31-2023 IBRAHIM JAMAL. Introduced by
Mike Dixon who moved for its adoption,and
The Planning Board, based on a limited review, has not identified any significant adverse impacts that
cannot be mitigated with current project proposal.
Motion seconded by Brady Stark. Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Longacker,Mr. Etu,Mr. Magowan,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Stark,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-You are off to the ZBA.
MR.HALL-Thank you very much.
MR. TRAVER-The next section of our agenda is New Business, and the first item under New Business is
Rachel's Bread,Cookies and More. This is Site Plan 57-2023.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 57-2023 SPECIAL USE PERMIT 4-2023 SEQR TYPE: TYPE 11. RACHEL'S
BREAD,COOKIES&z MORE. OWNER(S): RACHEL LUJBLI. ZONING: NC. LOCATION: 1135
RIDGE ROAD. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO UTILIZE A PORTION OF THE LOWER LEVEL OF
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AN EXISTING TWO STORY BUILDING FOR A KITCHEN. THE EXISTING DANCE STUDIO ON
THE UPPER LEVEL WILL REMAIN THE SAME. THE EXISTING BUILDING,WITH A 2,432 SQ.
FT. FOOTPRINT, WILL BE ALTERED WITH AN AWNING OVER THE LOADING AREA TO
MINIMIZE WEATHER IMPACT ON PRODUCT. THE LOWER LEVEL KITCHEN AREA WILL
BE UPDATED PER THE REQUIREMENTS TO OPERATE A BAKERY KITCHEN. ALL
PRODUCTS MADE WILL BE FOR DELIVERY WITH NO INTERIOR OR EXTERIOR SEATING.
PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040 &z 179-10-040, SITE PLAN FOR NEW TENANT AND
SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR FOOD SERVICE IN THE NC ZONE SHALL BE SUBJECT TO
PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE: SP 3-2013. WARREN
CO.REFERRAL: AUGUST 2023. LOT SIZE: 2.29 ACRES. TAX MAP NO.279.18-1-6. SECTION:
179-3-040,179-10-040.
RACHEL LUJBLI,PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So the applicant proposes to utilize the lower portion of an existing building for a kitchen
for operation of a bakery kitchen and then the upper floor has been previously approved for a dance studio
on the upper level. The existing building is 2,432 square feet. There is a proposed addition, simply an
awning over a loading area to minimize weather impact on product and then the applicant has included
spaces in the parking lot area that encompasses,it's kind of oddly shaped but it encompasses the existing
building as well as an area behind a church on the adjoining property. So there's enough parking for the
existing use and the proposed use, and if there's any additional expansion, it looks like there's additional
parking available.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. LUJBLI-Good evening. Thanks for having me.
MR. TRAVER-Sure. Tell us about your project and state your name for the record.
MS. LUJBLI-My name is Rachel Lujbli, owner of Rachel's Bread, Cookies and More on the corner of
Sunnyside and Ridge. I want to use this for a bakery kitchen,keeping all the exterior and everything the
same with the exception of the awning over the carport so I can keep things out of the weather. So it's
basically just changing names.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So who would be your customers? You would distribute to?
MS. LUJBLI-Actually none of my customers would change from what I currently have. I own the existing
business already, and I have a stand on 149 which is our stand and we're out there several times a day,and
then I work with different stores. Their demand is increasing which I can't possibly meet at this time. So
my customers would stay the same.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So it's really an expansion of what you're doing?
MS. LUJBLI-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-And you mentioned no change to utilities. Are you not going to need to do anything to
manage this expanded capacity?
MS. LUJBLI-So everything will be single phase. I don't have plans to go three phase until chef and I can
get that going around the corner. It's just me,my kids,and my husband. So single phase. There'll be no
change to the electric. Anything else will stay the same. The septic is brand new. The sellers had to
replace the septic. So there's no problem. It's the standard capacity..
MR. TRAVER-Okay. All right. Questions,comments from members of the Board?
MR. DEEB-Is the upstairs rented? Is the dance studio?
MS. LUJBLI-I purchased it with Jennifer Islas and she's using the upstairs and I'm using the downstairs.
She's going to be doing some Zumba,yoga,things like that.
MR. DIXON-Are you planning on putting any new signage,new lighting?
MS.LUJBLI-The lighting's going to stay the same. There's a current sign that will not change the footprint
for,but we have had time to think about the sign. It'll be a change of copy.
MR. DIXON-So in front of this building there's not going to be a stand or anything like that?
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MS. LUJBLI-I have no plans to change anything on the outside right now.
MR. TRAVER-There is a public hearing on this application as well. Is there anyone in the audience that
wanted to address the Planning Board on Site Plan 57-2023?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
AUDIENCE MEMBER-I'm Pastor of the church next door. I just hope there's going to be samples.
MR. TRAVER-All right. But you have no comment for the record?
AUDIENCE MEMBER-No comment.
MR. TRAVER-Are there written comments,Laura?
MRS. MOORE-No. I don't have any comments.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Then we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TRAVER-Are there additional questions,comments from members of the Planning Board?
MR. MAGOWAN-Not that I'm questioning you,but it's a single phase. What size ampage do you have
now?
MS. LUJBLI-To be honest I don't know. I know there is extra capacity in the breaker box. I had an
electrician look at it,and really the only difference that I need to change,I just need to ground each outlet
because that way I don't everything because nothing's grounded,but otherwise I don't know.
MR.MAGOWAN-Usually depending on the size of the building and your electric draw. So what are you
running for ovens?
MS. LUJBLI-I'm going to use electric ovens, and if you have a double oven in your house, it's going to be
500/o bigger than that,each one,and I'm going to have three.
MR. MAGOWAN-All right. So the oven at my house, electric, is 50 amps, all right. That's with the
cooktop and the oven. So usually the oven will draw, depending on the,usually 30 amps, 30 to 40 amps
for the oven. You're going double size. So you're probably going to be drawing,you know,50 to 60 amps.
So you're going to have three,all right. So that puts you at ISO amps,and if you have a,even though you've
got room in your box,it's your draw in ampage,you know, and then on top of your ovens you're going to
have mixers, all right,and I'm sure you're going to,if you're doing bread you've probably got a big Hobardt
mixer.
MS. LUJBLI-I hope to have something that big
MR. MAGOWAN-But I would look into your electrical. Just because you have breakers in your box,you
know, open spaces, doesn't mean you have enough draw. I know across the street on Sunnyside he's
looking to put in a 600 amp service over there,you know, for what he has to do. So you might have to
increase your amps because you're going to have to figure out all your equipment and what you're putting
in there,between the ovens,the mixers,the warmers or whatever and if they're not grounded that means
that you all probably just have two pronged outlets.
MS. LUJBLI-I do.
MR. MAGOWAN-And you're not going to be plugging anything into t hem because that's all old wiring.
MS. LUJBLI-Actually the previous owner did upgrade all the wiring. So it could have three prongs.
Honestly I can look at some pictures on my phone.
MR. TRAVER-Are you going to have an electrician help to install the new equipment?
MS. LUJBLI-To install the new equipment? No. I'll have him do the grounding,but my husband plans to
do all the,everything else.
MR. TRAVER-So you'll have some consultation with a licensed electrician.
MS. LUJBLI-I have. Yes.
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MR.MAGOWAN-All right. So you're going to have to get,obviously,that approved and go to the Health
Department.
MS. LUJBLI-Right.
MR.MAGOWAN-There's a lot in there. I'm just concerned,you know,say if the outlets aren't grounded,
that goes to show me that the wiring is usually old because they stopped doing that back in the 50's and I
know that building's got some age. I just don't want anything to happen to your precious goods that are
going to come out of the basement.
MS. LUJBLI-That would be a tragedy for sure. No. We'll be doing everything step by step.
MR. DEEB-I'm sure you want to be safe. You'll check that out.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well,like I said,you don't plug one of those ovens right into a wall outlet.
MS. LUJBLI-No,they actually have to be hardwired.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So is the Board comfortable moving forward on this application? All right. We
have a draft resolution.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP#57-2023 SUP 4-2023 RACHEL'S BREAD,COOKIES&MORE
The applicant has submitted an application to the Planning Board:Applicant proposes to utilize a portion
of the lower level of an existing two story building for a kitchen. The existing dance studio on the upper
level will remain. The existing building,with a 2,432 sq. ft.footprint,will be altered with an awning over
the loading area to minimize weather impact on product. The lower level kitchen area will be updated per
the requirements to operate a bakery kitchen. All products made will be for delivery with no interior or
exterior seating. Pursuant to chapter 179-3-040 &r 179-10-040, site plan for new tenant and special use
permit for food service in the NC zone shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-OSO, the Planning
Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the Zoning Code;
As required by General Municipal Law Section 239-m the site plan application was referred to the Warren
County Planning Department for its recommendation;
The Planning Board opened a public hearing on the Site plan application on S/15/2023 and continued the
public hearing to S/15/2023 when it was closed,
The Planning Board has reviewed the application materials submitted by the applicant and all comments
made at the public hearing and submitted in writing through and including S/15/2023;
The Planning Board determines that the application complies with the review considerations and
standards set forth in Article 9 of the Zoning Ordinance for Site Plan approval,
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN 57-2023 &z SPECIAL USE PERMIT 4-2023 RACHAEL'S
BREAD,COOKIES&z MORE,Introduced by Mike Dixon who moved for its adoption;
Per the draft provided by staff conditioned upon the following conditions:
1) Waivers request granted:g.site lighting,h.signage,j.stormwater,k.topography,1.landscaping,n
traffic, o. commercial alterations/ construction details, p floor plans, q. soil logs, r.
construction/demolition disposal s. snow removal;
2) The approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval. Applicant is responsible for
requesting an extension of approval before the one (1)year time frame has expired.
3) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
a) If application was referred to engineering, then engineering sign-off required prior to signature of
Zoning Administrator of the approved plans;
b) Final approved plans should have dimensions and setbacks noted on the site plan/survey,floor plans
and elevation for the existing rooms and proposed rooms in the building and site improvements,
c) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building and
Codes personnel;
d) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work;
e) Subsequent issuance of further permits,including building permits is dependent on compliance
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with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
f) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
g) Resolution to be placed on final plans in its entirety and legible.
h) Special use permit will be permanent.
Motion seconded by Brady Stark. Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
MRS. MOORE-So before you move on,in reference to the Special Use Permit,you have an opportunity to
decide whether it's temporary,renewable,or permanent,and the applicant is suggesting permanent.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. I don't have any problem with a permanent Special Use Permit. Does anyone else?
MR. DEEB-No.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
AYES: Mr. Longacker,Mr. Stark,Mr. Deeb, Mr. Etu,Mr. Magowan,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-You are all set.
MS. LUJBLI-Thankyou.
MR.TRAVER-The next item on our agenda,also under New Business,is New Potato Creek Holding LLC.
This is Tidal Wave. Site Plan 56-2023.
SITE PLAN NO.56-2023 SEQR TYPE: TYPE II. NEW POTATO CREEK HOLDING,LLC(TIDAL
WAVE). AGENT(S): BOHLER ENGINEERING. OWNER(S): EVEREST ENTERPRISES,LLC.
ZONING: Cl. LOCATION: 900 STATE ROUTE 9. APPLICANT PROPOSES DEMOLITION OF
AN EXISTING BUILDING IN ORDER TO CONSTRUCT A 3,190 SQ. FT. CAR WASH FACILITY
AND A 2,730 SQ. FT. CANOPY FOR 22 ON SITE VACUUMS. THE PROJECT INCLUDES
ADDITIONAL ACCESSORY BUILDINGS: A PAY KIOSK STRUCTURE AND TWO VACUUM
SERVICE BUILDINGS OF 154 SQ. FT. EACH. THE BUILDING COLORS WILL BE THE BLUES
ASSOCIATED WITH THE TIDAL WAVE BRAND. THE PROJECT INCLUDES ASSOCIATED
SITE WORK FOR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UTILITIES AND SITE LANDSCAPING.
PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 179-3-040,SITE WORK FOR NEW COMMERCIAL USE IN THE Cl
DISTRICT SHALL BE SUBJECT TO PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS
REFERENCE: SP 60-2007,SP 37-2018,AV 35-2018. WARREN CO.REFERRAL: AUGUST 2023.
LOT SIZE: 1.72 ACRES. TAX MAP NO.296.17-1-47. SECTION: 179-3-040.
CARYN MLODZIANOWSKI,REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
MR. TRAVER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-So this application is to demolish an existing building to construct a 3,910 square foot car
wash facility and a 2,730 square foot canopy for 22 on site vacuums. The project includes additional
accessory buildings, a pay kiosk structure and two vacuum service buildings of approximately 154 square
feet each. The building colors will be the blues associated with the Tidal Wave brand and the project
includes associated site work for stormwater management utilities and site landscaping and I provided the
engineering comments today for the Board to review and I said the Board may request additional
information for stormwater and landscaping.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MS. MLODZ IANOWSKI-Good evening. Caryn Mlodzianowski from Bohler Engineering for the record
on half of New Potato Creek Holding, LLC for this project this evening. This site here is 900 New York
State Route 9 and it's the existing Pizzeria Uno restaurant which is proposed to be demolished. It's in the
lower read. They're proposing a new Tidal Wave Auto Spa that would have car wash terminals and
vacuuming work. The existing site is located at the signalized intersection that is here. We would be re-
using that access point for that. There is existing cross connection to the parcels to the north and the
south that we would maintain our frontage here. There is one additional connection through the back here
that we would be proposing to close, and have that green space buffer in the side yard setback. As far as
site flow and layout, we would enter the site here and then this outer lane starts the queuing for the car
wash itself until you get to the point here. From there you continue on and get to the part of the tunnel
where you'll exit and then provide additional queuing that's here and eventually exiting here. So your
other option, once you exit the tunnel, would be to go to the vacuum area and then each of these is a one
way exit from that area to help try to keep those vacuums for people who have paid for the carwash itself.
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There are 22 points total, four vacuums within this area, two ADA accessible spaces here and four just
typical parking spaces along the back as well. We do have an equipment building that would house the
equipment to try to keep the noise levels low within those buildings. The architecture of that would
match the architecture of the main building which we can flip to here shortly,but the remaining site items,
we've got trees proposed along the frontage and the sides and a sidewalk connection to the existing
sidewalk that's on Route 9. There's not a connection there today,but we are proposing to add that as well.
As apart of this project there's about a 200/o reduction in impervious. So we are adding green space. The
current site is pretty much paved all the way to the back. We'll include this cross connection in the back
and that includes spacing within, we are enhancing that to make it better. So the smaller sides of the
tunnel are what would face Route 9 and then the back of the site where you would enter,there's a cultured
stone veneer that's proposed in here, and then this facade here is what would face to the north, so the
adjacent property,and then this would face the site itself and the parking and vacuum areas that are there.
This is all glazing that's here and that north side and that part of this,again with that stone, and then this
as well with the signature. So these are both the canopy for the vacuum and then that equipment building
that I referred to with the finishes that would match. There is signage proposed as well if the Board would
like those.
MRS. MOORE-I have a quick question for you in regards to the vacuum canopy. I just noticed. I didn't'
notice it before.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-The double versus the single?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Okay. So the other facility that's being built,been built, does have a double,
this location would,for the vacuum canopy,just have single row. So just single pulley.
MRS. MOORE-So single pulley.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-So that here is just single,versus the other location that has.
MR. TRAVER-So as opposed to the Quaker Road location.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. Sorry about that.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So a couple of the questions that I had. One was regarding, we just received,
dated today,the LaBella engineering review. Did you happen to have seen that letter at all?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-It's in the car.
MR.TRAVER-Yes,the same with us. Yes,we just got it ourselves. There does seem to be some comments
in it regarding stormwater. I didn't personally see anything that I thought you shouldn't be able to address,
but I'd just like you to confirm that if you would.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-I agree.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Then the other question I had is,of course one of the concerns we have, especially
in this part of Town,is traffic. It's fortunate that you're using the same traffic light that the restaurant is
currently using,but do you have any,can you give us any thoughts on changes in traffic flow between the
current restaurant and what this would be proposing?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-So I can speak to the car wash auto spa and use itself. So for AM peak hour
typically it's 25 cars entering and exiting. This is based on a study that was done for other locations. That's
the standard. For the PM it would be 39 trips for this use, and then for the weekend peak hour entering
and exiting it would be 19 entering,22 exiting as far as this use goes.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MAGOWAN-An hour?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-For the peak hour,one hour.
MR. TRAVER-So that exceeds,I speculate that would exceed what the current restaurant activity would
be.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-I can't say that before,but.
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MR. TRAVER-Yes. All right. Questions,comments?
MR. LONGACKER-I know the ITE Trip Generation manual probably says 19,but that just seems really
low. I live pretty close to the Hoffman's one and in an hour,you know,weekends,especially in the winter,
you have more than 19 cars queued up during an hour, and does that take into account the vacuum stalls
as well?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-That accounts for everything. The intent is the vacuum will be used.
MR. LONGACKE R-Right,but they wouldn't be in the queue.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-And they wouldn't be in the queue. The queue itself,if they were to be busier,
does add a stack for about 25 cars.
MR.LONGACKER-There's 27 here. Any concern with people trying to bypass the light? I love combined
entrances. I really do. I think it's great,but I'm just curious since this is more of a destination,more of a
pass through type use for traffic. Any concern with people coming through the hotel or the building to
the north there,I forget what that is and using that trying to bypass the light?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-People using those uses.
MR. LONGACKER-Entrances,just to, again,bypass the light.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Again, if they are, we've got plenty queued for them. It becomes a three way
stop at that point. So,you know,really they're only going to just kind of fill that front cross section across
driveway and just really have to sit and wait I guess.
MR. LONGACKER-Okay. The only concern I would have there is just somebody trying to access one of
the other facilities. That's all,like have a line of cars queued up.
MR. DEEB-So you can queue up going in from Route 9. I thought it was 22 cars from what I looked at,
getting up to the toll.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes,you're correct,and then you get a few more spots.
MR. DEEB-Then you've got a few more stacked before they go in. I'm comparing this to the Hoffman's,
again. I think I counted, they could queue up the Quaker Road 30 cars and there were times that there
were cars backed out on Quaker Road all the way back down,and I am still a little nervous about queueing
up 22 cars and what happens when it gets real,real busy. You're talking Route 9 here. So how would you
answer? Do you have a typical store elsewhere in the area that,in the Capital District, that's the size of
this?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes. There is another one,I don't have the exact address,but we can pull what
their.
MR. DEEB-I'd really be interested in seeing what their queues are in the busy season,because again I just
compare it to the Hoffman one.
MR. TRAVER-Well the Hoffman is different in that they provide a lot more services. I mean you can go
there for oil changes. You can go there for self-car wash.
MR. DEEB-Right, and they have other things. I understand that. Hoffman's gives a free vacuum. You
don't have to get a wash to get a vacuum cleaner.
MR. TRAVER-All I'm saying is there's more traffic because there's more services there. Right?
MR. DEEB-Yes. I agree with you.
MR.MAGOWAN-Well that,too. Also Hoffman's did say one of the reasons it was backing up is because
Tidal Wave has been re-doing up on Quaker and they finally got South Glens Falls opened up. So really
Hoffman's was kind of like the only car wash there for a period of time where,the only place you could get
a carwash. So now you're going to have two on Quaker,one,you know,on Route 9 and possibly another
across the street. So I like the fact that it comes to the light. I also like the fact that you've cutoff to the
back of the hotel. I mean I like that access point there, you know, for the restaurant wise, but for the
carwash,I appreciate the sidewalk. My concern is that is a shared light for the plaza just south of you. Is
that still going to be shared?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
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MR. DEEB-It has to be. Is the other one on Quaker Road,that hasn't opened yet.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-It has not. I don't know when it will.
MR. MAGOWAN-I think they're working on the sewer line right now. Not that I know what's going on
over there,but that's just what I see driving.
MR.DEEB-Because that would certainly,you've got one,two,three carwashes and Hoffman's put another
one down at Exit 17. I just want to state my concern about the queue. I mean when I looked at it,and it
would be tragic to have something backing out on Route 9. I don't think people would be coming in if it
was that backed up out there.
MR. TRAVER-No,you wouldn't be able to.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, like I said, I do believe there wasn't enough carwashes at the time of that,but
also too is there's a wider shoulder on Quaker Road,you know,to get over to wait to get into the queue.
MR. DEEB-There isn't here.
MR. MAGOWAN-And there isn't here and in my instance, if I needed a carwash, I wouldn't be stopping
on Route 9 waiting to get in.
MR. DEEB-You'd go home and get the hose.
MR. MAGOWAN-But I mean it does narrow down there. It would just force cars to get over,but would
take. The only question I also have is I've noticed,just at carwashes all over,is cars taking out,going back
out onto the main road. You notice the macadam breaks up. It's because people step on it to get out onto
the road. The water,you know, either it's in the bed of the truck or whatever, sits on the road, freezes,
thaws, freezes and it always cracks up. If you notice if you drive around the North Country outside
carwashes, and you also notice it where you see where parking lots or driveways that do that, where the
water always sits because it comes out there and it just breaks up. Is there something you could do to
catch some of that water so it doesn't go out onto the road?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-We can look at that. Basically the entire site, but this cross connection here
and exit,is all concrete pavement. So you're going a good distance before you even get to that exit point,
and then from there all the drainage is directed down into this depression,but we can look at the grading
there and maybe add some gravel along the edge.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well I'm just thinking even if you've got to go up a little where the water, and you've
got a,you know, storm drain or something there. I'm just thinking because I know how often the State
loves to re-pave that road, and we're re-doing Quaker Road now, the County is. So it's just something
that I've noticed over the years of driving around. Let's just say, and I'm not calling out Hoffman's,but,
you know, they come out quite a ways from their carwash, too,you know, and across past the vacuums,
back out and it always seems like,I believe they go up.
MR.TRAVER-There is a public hearing on this project as well. Is there anyone in the audience that wants
to address the Planning Board on this Site Plan? Are there written comments,Laura?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MRS. MOORE-There are no written comments.
MR. TRAVER-All right. Then we will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. TRAVER-Other questions,comments from the Board?
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes. This glass,is it a mirrored glass or just a dark glass?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-You can see through the glass.
MR. DIXON-Laura,I do have a question for you.
MR. MAGOWAN-I don't know. Does that catch anybody? I kind of like it,but I'm thinking right next
door you've got a new health facility coming in. Oh you've got the hotel on the other side. All right. Carry
on. I was just wondering if there was any tint to them at all.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Not really.
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MR. MAGOWAN-All right.
MRS. MOORE-So it's less than the trigger. The trigger is 4,000 square feet.
MR.DIXON-Okay. All right,and then for the applicant. On the lighting,I had no issues with the lighting
plan that you propose,but as we're doing projects,it would be nice to try to dress up the Town a little bit,
and I think there were either one or two lights on the front facing Route 9. I was having a tough time
seeing it on the plans, but I'm wondering if they could be a little bit more ornamental if they are there,
similar to what we have on Main Street in Queensbury.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Are you referring to the actual light poles?
MR. DIXON-Yes.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes,there are two.
MR.DIXON-Is it something you're willing to swap out? Because I mean we're approving a Site Plan today.
So if you're going to do it,then we've got to get it in the resolution.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-We did agree to those two fixtures.
MR. DEEB-Because if you go to Main Street you'll see them.
MR. MAGOWAN-Back to my question on the glass. What kind of light show is going on inside the
carwash? I know this is a big thing. Kids like it. I have to admit,some adults like going through it,too.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-So as far as lighting, I mean I can, actual colors, I'd have to confirm that, but
otherwise it's I'd say just standard lighting in there. Again,you'll see it,but the hours are eight. They close
at eight. So they're turned off, including vacuums. So I guess in winter hours you'll want to reduce the
hours,but otherwise.
MR. MAGOWAN-I'm just concerned with the natural glass and,you know,now foaming. I haven't seen
the new Tidal Wave open, but I know there's one in Glens Falls, and that one's, Hudson Falls, and that
one's a little bit shorter. You've really done a nice job on that. I can't wait to seethe one on Quaker Road,
but I'm just concerned as a distraction of,you know,it looking like a discotheque in there with cars going
through.
MR. TRAVER-Distraction to who?
MR. MAGOWAN-Drivers.
MR. DEEB-On Route 9?
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes.
MR. DEEB-I don't know if they'll be able to see in there.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-We're pretty far.
MR. MAGOWAN-It's all glass.
MR. DEEB-Inside. Not.
MR.TRAVER-But it's in align to the road. So I don't think there's going to be much visibility,if any,from.
MR. MAGOWAN-You'll have glass on both sides if I'm looking on this one. Right? You're going to be
able to see cars going down through there. It's just a concern. I'd like to see what kind of light show is
going on inside there because I know that's an attraction.
MR. TRAVER-So you want,what,a lighting plan prior to approval for the wash itself?
MR. MAGOWAN-Have any of you ever been through a new carwash?
MR. TRAVER-Yes/
MR.MAGO WAN-And you see how they light up the foam,the tire wash and this and that,but sometimes
they, you know, the lights get awfully bright in there especially with the colored soaps. It's a little
psychedelic,you know what I mean.
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MR. DEEB-I don't see that as a concern.
MR. TRAVER-That's not been my experience.
MR. MAGOWAN-I would like to see it,because I have a little concern with the traffic that's on Route 9.
MR. DEEB-I have one more question. How did you come up with New Potato Creek Holding?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-I'm sure they have a story,but that's the name.
MRS. MOORE-I guess I'll offer that if the Board decides to table,the applicant can potentially come back
next week if some of those questions can be addressed.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, well let's ask the Board. So there's been a suggestion that we see a lighting plan for
the lights for the washing equipment inside the bay prior to approval. Are any members uncomfortable
with an approval without that detail,or do we want to?
MR. DEE&We've never asked for that before on the other applications. I mean I don't see the need.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Warren?
MR. LONGACKER-I don't see where it's really needed,but if Brad wants to see it, I don't have an issue
waiting either. I don't have any concern with it.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. You don't mind waiting.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well the only reason I say that is most of these a e solid buildings that you can't see
the cars and I was involved previously with the car wash that was Tidal Wave on Quaker Road. I helped
put that together a lot on the electrical end,and I ran a lot of wires for the fancy lighting,you know,because
that was an attraction. So that's where I'm coming from,you know,I just know,and I haven't really been
in a Tidal Wave,but when you were here for the Quaker Road,the guy said wait until you see our tunnels,
you know.
MR. TRAVER-Can you offer if the lighting in this proposed site is going to be substantially the same as
the one on Quaker Road?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-I would have to confirm that.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MR. MAGOWAN-But you can't say that because the one on Quaker's not all glass sides.
MR. TRAVER-But I'm asking about the lighting,not the glass sides.
MR. DEEB-Brad's saying you can't see it outside the building because it stays in the building on Quaker.
MR.MAGOWAN-Because you don't have glass all the way down both sides were you're washing the cars.
MR. DIXON-I guess I can see some of Mr. Magowan's concern. The Town Code talks about lighting in
proximity to stop lights,I believe. I can't cite the exact location,but if the lighting's going to be red,.Green
or yellow,there's a potential for a distraction. So maybe at least knowing.
MR.TRAVER-Let me ask the applicant. Is it possible to change the building sides from glass to something
that would be opaque? So the lighting would not be a concern?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-It's possible. I was going to ask,just to make sure we answer and get you what
the concern might be.
MR. TRAVER-Is that something that you can check into prior to next Tuesday?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. So maybe what we should do is table you tonight and have you come back and
address that question about the lighting because of the apparent concern that it's going to be a distraction
to cars going by and see if it's possible to configure the building in a similar function to the Quaker Road
site which is opaque. So regardless of what the lighting is inside, the light does not escape the building
other than perhaps on the ends.
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MR. DEEB-It would be the darker glass. We can't tell you how to do it/
MR.STARK-I don't think they need to re-configure their entire project,both sides. That's just my opinion.
MR. TRAVER-Okay.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-The concern, so I understand,would be certain colors. I understand that, and
is it also a concern seeing light whatsoever in what's going on?
MR. MAGOWAN-That doesn't bother me as much as I don't want it looking like a discotheque.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Like moving lights?
MR. MAGOWAN-Well you're going to,the lights are going to flash as the cars go down.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-So if it was more of a static light.
MR. MAGOWAN-No. Do you have any of these that have glass,that have this amount of glass?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Not in the area. Maybe in another State.
MR. MAGOWAN-All right. See if they can't get a video, all right. Something's not jiving with me and I
just don't feel comfortable, and like I said, I just, and being involved in a carwash before with the lights
with the big thing,maybe they aren't for you guys,but from when they came for Quaker Road.
MR. TRAVER-So either that or see perhaps an easier option would be to make opaque sides so that way
regardless of what the equipment,how the equipment is configured,which could change the configuration
of the equipment and therefore the lighting would appear to me to be much more complicated and difficult
than simply changing the structure on the sides to make them opaque. So maybe you could look into that
and we'll take another look,we'll have another conversation about the lighting,Tuesday. Is that all right?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-That works.
MR.TRAVER-All right. So can the Board support waiting to re-consider this application until next week?
And give her the opportunity to answer the question about the visibility of lights off site.
MR. DEEB-The intensity of the lights. I think what Brad's saying is how much does it come out.
MR. TRAVER-But if the sides are opaque it doesn't matter.
MR. DEEB-I think that's why he asked for video.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, and I will do some disco car wash things,you know.
MR. TRAVER-Okay. Laura,let's see,can we accommodate a tabling to next week?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-All right. So we would need,then,a motion to table to August 2211d
MR. DIXON-All right. So you're comfortable with the tasks that you have at hand then. Right?
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Yes.
RESOLUTION TABLING SP#56-2023 NEW POTATO CREEK HOLDING LLC
Applicant proposes demolition of an existing building in order to construct a 3,910 sq.ft.car wash facility
and a 2,730 sq.ft.canopy for 22 onsite vacuums.The project includes additional accessory buildings:a pay
kiosk structure and two vacuum service buildings of 154 sq.ft. each. The building colors will be the blues
associated with the Tidal Wave brand. The project includes associated site work for stormwater
management,utilities and site landscaping. Pursuant to chapter 179-3-040,site work for new commercial
use in the CI district shall be subject to Planning Board review and approval.
MOTION TO TABLE SITE PLAN 56-2023 NEW POTATO CREEK HOLDING,LLC. Introduced by
Mike Dixon who moved for its adoption,seconded by Brady Stark.
Tabled until the August 22,2023 Planning Board meeting.
Duly adopted this 15`h day of August 2023 by the following vote:
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AYES: Mr. Etu,Mr. Stark,Mr. Longacker,Mr. Magowan,Mr. Deeb,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-We will see you next week.
MR. DEEB-See you next week.
MR. MAGOWAN-Thank you so much.
MS. MLODZIANOWSKI-Thankyou.
MR. TRAVER-Is there any other business before the Planning Board this evening? If not,we'll entertain
a motion to adjourn.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF AUGUST 15Tx
2023,Introduced by Brad Magowan who moved for its adoption,seconded by David Deeb:
Duly adopted this 15`h day of August,2023,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb,Mr. Dixon,Mr. Magowan, Mr. Longacker, Mr. Stark,Mr. Etu,Mr. Traver
NOES: NONE
MR. TRAVER-We stand adjourned. Thank you. everyone. See you next week.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Stephen Traver,Chairman
2S