01-16-2013 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 16, 2013
INDEX
Area Variance No. 35-2012 Blue Moose Tavern - Daniel & Ellen Nichols 1.
Tax Map No. 288.20-1-18 and 19
Area Variance No. 61-2012 Steve and Jennifer Kitchen 2.
Tax Map No. 226.19-1-39
Area Variance No. 52-2012 LARIC Development 27.
Tax Map No. 308.12-1-3 and 7.1
Area Variance No. 01-2013 Lori and David Florian 28.
Tax Map No. 289.7-2-7, 10, 15, 16, 1, 24
Area Variance No. 02-2013 Hayes and Hayes 33.
Tax Map No. 302.14-1-79.2
Area Variance No. 03-2013 Sam Maranville 42.
Tax Map No. 315.6-2-13
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND
STAFF REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES
(IF ANY) AND WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FIRST REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 16, 2013
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
STEVEN JACKOSKI, CHAIRMAN
ROY URRICO, SECRETARY
RICHARD GARRAND
JOYCE HUNT
RONALD KUHL
BRIAN CLEMENTS
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR-CRAIG BROWN
STENOGRAPHER-SUE HEMINGWAY
MR. JACKOSKI-Welcome, everyone. Tonight I'd like to call to order the Queensbury Zoning
Board of Appeals meeting January 16th here in the Town building. We have a relatively easy
process here. On the back table there is a brief, one page document, double sided, that kind of
explains the process. We'll call each application and then have it read into the record. The
applicant will join us here at the table. We'll listen to the applicant, ask questions, open a public
hearing when a public hearing has been advertised, bring the applicant back to the table to
discuss public comment, poll the Board when necessary, do SEAR, make motions, and move
forward as such. I'd like to remind everyone that generally this Board has a four minute limit on
public comment. We do try to adhere to that. For situations wherein additional time may be
needed, it will be up to the Board to make a decision regarding that, but we are going to try to
limit public comment to four minutes per commenter. So also I'd like to address this evening
that one of the items here on the agenda is LARIC Development. It's on Luzerne Road off of
existing Burnt Hills subdivision. It is a 36 lot residential subdivision. We will be opening the
public hearing tonight, but we will not be taking any action, and that is because the application is
being delayed until March for this Board. So if you're here for that application, just so you know,
we won't be taking any action concerning that matter. It is going to get tabled. Okay. First thing
on the agenda this evening, and welcome everybody to our first meeting of 2013, November
28th, 2012 minutes need approval.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
November 28, 2012
MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING
MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 28, 2012, Introduced by Ronald Kuhl who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Richard Garrand:
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
MR. JACKOSKI-Next item is December 5th meeting minutes. Can I have a motion for approval?
December 5, 2012
MOTION TO APPROVE THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 5, 2012, Introduced by Roy Urrico who moved for its adoption,
seconded by Richard Garrand:
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 35-2012 BLUE MOOSE TAVERN - DANIEL& ELLEN NICHOLS
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. JACKOSKI-Request for further tabling, and does Staff have a recommended date?
MR. BROWN-The Planning Board tabled it to their March 19th meeting. So March 20 would
work okay for you guys.
MR. JACKOSKI-And do we have to establish a submission deadline of any kind, if there is one?
MR. BROWN-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-The normal submission deadline?
MR. BROWN-The normal submission, yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. So with the normal submission deadline for the March 20th meeting for
our Board, can I have a motion to table this matter, please?
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 35-2012 DANIEL & ELLEN NICHOLS BLUE
MOOSE TAVERN, Introduced by Brian Clements who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Ronald Kuhl:
Tabled to the March 20, 2013 meeting with a submission date of February 15th
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Under Old Business, the first application this evening is Area Variance
No. 61-2012.
OLD BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 61-2012 SEQRA TYPE 11 STEVE AND JENNIFER KITCHEN
AGENT(S) NACE ENGINEERING OWNER(S) LINDA S. DE LAURA ZONING WR
LOCATION END OF FOREST ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES CONSTRUCTION OF A
TWO STORY DWELLING WITH ATTACHED GARAGE TOTALING 3,171 SQ. FT.;
ASSOCIATED WASTEWATER AND STORMWATER SYSTEMS PLANNED. RELIEF
REQUESTED FROM INFILTRATION OF DRIVEWAY STORMWATER WITHIN 100 FT. OF A
SHORELINE. CROSS REF SP 48-2012; FWW 3-2012; SP 28-10; BP 10-556 (TEST PIT)
WARREN COUNTY PLANNING YES ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY YES LOT SIZE 0.34
ACRES TAX MAP NO. 226.19-1-39 SECTION 147-11
JON LAPPER & TOM CENTER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. JACKOSKI-There was a public hearing scheduled on December 5th. We did open the
public hearing. We are continuing that public hearing this evening, and I'd turn it over to be
read, should we read it more into the record, Roy? Or did we read it in before?
MR. URRICO-1 would suggest re-reading it.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. We're going to re-read it into the record. Welcome, everyone.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 61-2012, Steve & Jennifer Kitchen, Meeting Date: January
16, 2013 "Project Location: End of Forest Road Description of Proposed Project: Applicant
proposes construction of a two story dwelling with attached garage totaling 3,171 sq. ft.;
associated wastewater and stormwater systems planned.
Relief Required:
Parcel will require area variances as follows:
• 90' of relief from the 100' requirement for the rain garden to wetland setback
• 64' of relief from the 100' requirement for the septic system to the stone trench setback
• 50' of relief from the 100' requirement for the rain garden to the well setback
• 46' of relief from the 100' requirement for the stone trench to the wetland setback
• 30' of relief from the 100' requirement for the stone trench to the well setback
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
• 15 of relief from the 3' vertical separation requirement for the stone trench and rain
garden
• Relief for the construction of stone trench and rain garden without any infiltration below
the frost level
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the Board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this Area Variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for
the applicant to pursue, other than an Area Variance. Feasible alternatives may include a
smaller driveway area which may allow the rain garden to be located further from the
wetland.
3. Whether the requested Area Variance is substantial. The requested horizontal separation
requests for 90, 64, 50, 46, and 30 percent range from substantial to moderate relative to the
100' requirement. The 50% relief request from the 3' vertical separation requirement may be
viewed as significant. The 100% relief for having no infiltration below frost may be viewed as
substantial.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor impacts on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance,
SP 48-2012 & FW 3-2012: Pending
SP 28-2010: 3,085 sq. ft. sfd w/attached garage. Disturbance within 100 feet of a wetland
requires both SPR & FW by the PB No Action
BP 10-556: Test pit 11-23-11
Staff comments:
Please see the attached Planning Board recommendation which was issued on
December 20, 2012.
SEAR Status:
Type II"
MR. URRICO-And there was a Planning Board recommendation which we read in on December
20th. Right and it's a Type 11 SEAR.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay and that Planning Board recommendation was that there was no
significant impact that the Planning Board thought they couldn't mitigate with Site Plan Review.
Is that correct?
MR. BROWN-That's correct.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Thank you. Welcome.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening, everyone. For the record, Jon Lapper with Tom Center and
Jennifer Kitchen. Steve is traveling on business out of the country. I'd like to make some
general comments and then Tom will go through some of the technical issues. To start with, I
think that this is really a very simple and straightforward application, even though it's somewhat
taken on a little bit of a life of its own. This is a pre-existing lot, and what the Kitchens are
proposing is a very modest house. Roy read in the Staff Notes that it's characterized as a 3100
square foot house, but it's a 1620 square foot basement, not a walk-out basement, not a finished
basement. So it's a 1620 square foot house with a basement, really modest. What's most
important about that, and about this application, is that, and compared to a previous application
that another purchaser had proposed for this site, this is a house that fits within the setback. It
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
doesn't require any setback variances whatsoever for the house, for height. A lot of what you
see on the lake require variances for proposed large houses on small lots because most of the
lots were approved at a different time, but all of the house setbacks are compliant. The size of
the house is compliant and modest, and even more important than that, the septic system is in a
compliant location, both design and in terms of the setback. So, what we're here talking about is
stormwater infiltration, because the Town Code has changed in the last few years, so the
definition of shoreline now applies to the shoreline of a wetland where originally it was lakes and
streams. So Nace Engineering has gone out of their way to try and design this and to change
the design, in consultation with the Town Engineer, to minimize the setbacks, minimize the
variances, but what we're talking about are a series of rain gardens to infiltrate the stormwater,
treat the stormwater. There's a lot of other treatments besides infiltration that's going on, before
it gets to the edge of the wetland. Now the wetland itself is a very large wetland in the center of
Assembly Point, which is a great distance from the lake. The wetland, of course, acts as a filter.
So it's being filtered before it gets to the wetland. It's only stormwater. A lot of the stormwater
that we're talking about is roof stormwater, because there aren't really a lot of impervious
surfaces that are proposed. Roof stormwater is considered very clean, and that's treated
separately as well. Tom will go through the details, but we think that even though this has been
characterized as some dramatic variances, they're very minimal, and it's just about getting the
stormwater infiltrated before it gets near the boundary of the wetland. If you go to the list that
Roy read of what the seven variances that are described, Number Three and Number Five have
been eliminated, and Craig can verify that now, because as a result of comments from the Town
Engineer, the well was moved to the very rear of, southwest corner of the property, so that that
setback now complies. So those two are not necessary. We don't have to talk about that, and
in addition to that, the second one, the 64 foot of relief from the 100 foot requirement for the
septic system to the stone trench, yes, we're requesting that, but the septic system is up
gradient so there's no issue. The stone trench is down gradient. So water not traveling up, it
can't effect the septic system. So even though, yes, that's on the list, I mean, that's easy to
explain. Tom will go through the rest, just because they're more technical, but in general the
whole design here was to get the stormwater into the ground, and to build the smallest house
that they could live with on this lot and not ask for too much. Another interesting component of
this is the small expansion of the road the Town Highway Department has agreed to do. The
length of that, 65 feet long. So it's on a right of way, a Town right of way, and it's just about
expanding the Town road 16 feet by 65 feet to get to create a driveway for this property. There's
a letter in the file from Mike Travis, the Highway Superintendent. He's reviewed the plans and
he's in agreement with that. Someone characterized this as a $10 to $20,000 improvement, and
I think Mike said it was $1800, just a normal part of the Highway Department budget. So, you
know, I think when we go through this in detail you'll see that it's really, these are minimum
variances just to make this lot developable. It's always been a building lot, and certainly there's
not going to be an impact on the wetland or on the neighborhood. Just a modest proposal, a
modest house with good infiltration devices to handle the stormwater. Let me turn it over to
Tom, at this point, to go over some details.
MR. CENTER-Craig, can you just run the PowerPoint real quick. You can go right to the first
slide. As Jon stated, throughout this process we've worked with the Staff in the Planning Office.
We've worked with the Town Supervisor, or the Town Highway Supervisor, and we've worked
with the Town Engineer to try to incorporate items into our project that have been used on
previous shorefront, Lake George shoreline projects, on these small lots, and those include the
rain gardens, using low impact design techniques including the rain gardens, which, you know,
treat the stormwater as a resource, not the waste, clean the stormwater, filter it, and then allow it
to disperse back into the ground. We've used a drivable grass driveway, which is permeable in
and of itself, but we've treated it conservatively as an impervious surface, but it's a drivable
grass. It will, it's not an asphalt. It will have some filtering capacity. It doesn't have any
permeable capacity because of the slope that it's on, but again, it's another green infrastructure
project, another green infrastructure technique that we've used to try to enhance this, knowing
that we are close to the wetland boundary. We've also re-directed the rain water, stormwater,
from impervious surfaces to the permeable areas. We've separated the stormwater from the
roof, and taken it to its own separate device. Now the roof water is generally a clean stormwater
type of water. We've taken it to its very own device, to a stone trench that takes it down to a
lower stone storage area and a ponding area for the larger storms. This is another green
infrastructure practice where they talk about separating stormwater. In normal days, when we
first started doing this, we'd send it all to one device. Here we're trying to separate it and treat
smaller amounts closer to where they're created. The rain garden at the end of the driveway
that treats the entire runoff from, most of the driveway except a small portion where it goes
toward the road as in any device, any land that's developed on a slope, it's difficult to capture
everything. We've attempted to capture all of it. We've worked with the Town Engineer to do
this, and we've captured, I'd say, about 90% of the stormwater, maybe even a little bit more, and
directed it to the rain garden. We've designed both the stone storage and the rain garden to
treat and hold the 25 year design volume. So we've kind of gone a little bit over the design and
not included a factor of safety in the exfiltration rate, which is even more conservative because
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
of the volumes to go up, but we've met our points in having to do the 10 year volume and the 25
year runoff rate. We've also provided some vegetation. We're going to allow the lawn to grow
back up. It's not going to be a grass lawn. The client has the option to let it grow back into a
New England style lawn where it's more maybe brush hogged once or twice a year, but left to
grow back up. They're not looking at this lot as some place to have the grass lawn that would
sheet flow much faster. It's going to be more of a natural sort of state. We've tried to reduce
some of the site impacts by going with a smaller house footprint and going vertical and up. We
have used the Elgin septic system, as Jon mentioned, for the septic system, back in the
northwest corner, and brought it into compliance with the Town and DOH regulations, and we've
also tried to reduce, you know, using the long contours of the house to reduce disturbance as
much as possible and keep the house within that box of the approved setbacks. One of the
reasons the house isn't moving too much left or right is because we're stuck with trying to
reduce the driveway by keeping the house as much to the north as possible, but we can't go any
closer than 20 feet to the wastewater system. The wastewater system has to be 10 feet off the
property line. So that's kind of a fixed point where we've moved it as far to the north as possible
to reduce the asphalt for the Town road, and working with Highway and explaining those things.
As far as the size of the driveway, we've done our best to reduce the size of the driveway so that
we can back out and pull out and go out the driveway exit, and probably do a three point turn to
get out of the most south driveway area. We've worked, as you can see, the value for the
community and the tax base, it's going to go from $50,000 to probably somewhere $300,000.
We've provided stormwater for the Town will put the snow that they currently now just plow off
the end of the road, they're going to use the rain garden as a place to push the snow into, and
use it for filtration and then as Jon said, the $1800 to $2,000 for the extension of the road.
Could you go to the next slide, please? This is what the house looks like. The gray at the
bottom is actually basement that will be, or foundation wall that will be sunk into the ground, and
that's the layout of the first floor, or the second floor, the first floor would be mostly the storage
area and to get to the first floor unfinished storage areas. Go to the next slide, please. As you
can see, what we've done here, in trying to do this, this entire area here is all permeable grass
driveway, will shed right down to here. This would be the only section that wouldn't, you know,
we're trying to capture it. Because we're stuck with the Town road elevations, we won't be able
to capture all of it into the rain garden. The roof gutters will drain down and be piped to the
stone storage trench that will start here, and we have not calculated, the Hydro Cad
calculations, any of the storage volume of the stone from this point down to down in here.
We've only calculated a small section of the stone storage, and then the small ponded area
above it, and then of course we have the septic system, like you said, in the northwest corner.
You can go to the next slide. This is just a quick review of, you know, some folks that we
documented support, some folks that have come out against the project, and kind of give you an
idea of where this project is located. You can go to the next slide. Again, these are all, the Lake
George Water Keeper, these are things that we, you know, I attend a lot of his functions. The
permeable grass driveways, the rain gardens. These are all designs that, you know, we've
developed with them and to use on projects just like this, and we try to do those things to
enhance the treatment, knowing that, you know, variances are going to be required, what's the
best we can do to protect the environment, but yet still be able to construct the project for the
applicant. You can go to the next one. This is just a look at the end of Forest Road, looking
down out into the site. The area in question where the rain garden would be built is right in here,
off the edge of this. The bottom, the site is actually going to be raised up slightly with fill. We're
building on the existing grade and then building a berm out in this area over there. This is the
property corner right here. At the end of this tree, where the tree, there's a tree that's fallen.
You can see it a little bit better, is the other property corner. So this actually kind of goes at an
angle right there. If you go to the next slide. This, again, is looking a little bit closer, standing on
the Town right of way looking out, the property corner is down here, and this is just looking out to
the far property line over in here. Go to the next slide. This is a picture I just took today. Again,
this is the area where the rain garden will be constructed. A berm will be built down in here.
That's the corner here. The property line kind of comes in this way and we're using the natural
grade, building up. The bottom of the pond will be at the existing grade, and then will be built
out with fill and the toe of the slope will be down, going in this direction. Next slide. This photo
is, again, looking a little bit closer, standing closer to where the pond would be, again, right in
this area, looking out. There's the property corner right there, and the pond would be built in this
area. Next slide, please. This is looking from the property line looking back towards, that's
Forest Road. The pond would be built, again, berm a little bit in this area, pond built up in this
area. This is standing on the property corner looking back up towards Forest Road. This right
here is the other property line, coming down in here. So, again, berm would be up in front of us,
in here, built up with the rain garden in there. This is looking up from the wetland boundary up
toward the parcel where the rain garden would be built in this area, right in front of us, and then
the driveway would be up that way, and again, this is just another view looking at the very end of
Forest Road out. This is where the wetland boundary kind of goes off the page and up again.
It's just to kind of give you an idea, looking out that way, and again, the same view as previous.
I think there's one more, and then this is standing up in the driveway area looking down at the
pond would be in this area right here.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. LAPPER-Any questions?
MR. JACKOSKI-No, just a couple of comments. When you mentioned that you didn't make
those calculations to the north of the driveway area; that was just taking the conservative
approach, not that the application was incomplete.
MR. CENTER-I didn't take credit in the Hydro Cad calculations for that. It's more or less; it's like
a pipe getting the water down to the stone, the lower stone storage.
MR. LAPPER-You treated it like a pipe.
MR. CENTER-I treated it like a pipe, but it's not a pipe. It's not calculated in the storage volume
for that device.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. I just wanted to clarify that it was a conservative, more conservative
approach than just not finishing the work, and, Number Two, I just want to understand the
designation between a wetland boundary and a wetland buffer boundary, because they are
significantly different, so that when everyone's speaking they make that differentiation between
the buffer line and the actual wetland line. I mean, when we have public comment, there's
pictures of that.
MR. CENTER-Yes, that is the wetland boundary line.
MR. JAC KOSKI-Correct. Okay, any questions from Board members at this time?
MR. URRICO-Yes, I do. I just want to make sure I understand. The 50 feet of relief from the
100 foot requirement from the rain garden to the well setback, that's off the table?
MR. CENTER-Yes, that's off the table. If you can go back to that slide.
MR. BROWN-Yes, I saw the slide. Yes, it matches the spot on my map that I had drawn with a
question mark.
MR. CENTER-The well has been re-located to this corner, with all of the separation distances
provided, 100 feet from the rain garden to the well, 100 feet from the stone storage trench to the
well, 100 feet to the proposed septic system here, and 100 feet from the neighbor's septic
system to the wetland.
MR. URRICO-And then also the 30 foot, 30 feet of relief from the 100 requirement is also off the
table.
MR. CENTER-Correct, yes.
MR. URRICO-And what was the 64 feet of relief. There was some question about, that would
be Number Two.
MR. CENTER-The 64 is from the septic system, and the stormwater design manual, and in the
supplemental regulations in the Town of Queensbury, requires 100 feet of separation between
the septic system and the stone storage trench. What it also says in the supplementary
regulations, it can be closer if adverse impacts, if there's no adverse impacts to the wastewater
system from the infiltration device, and since the infiltration device is down gradient from the
septic system, there can be no adverse, the infiltration can't go up the slope to impact the
absorption system, and that's been a generally accepted, the engineer has reviewed that and
that has not been an additional comment since we discussed it.
MR. CLEMENTS-So that map that you have up there right now does not match this one that we
have here?
MR. CENTER-The two minor changes are this ponded area is slightly larger in this direction,
and this well is moved from there to here, and that was because of two comments with the Town
Engineer in working through their stormwater design.
MR. LAPPER-And Craig's been included in all those back and forth with the engineer.
MR. CLEMENTS-Thank you.
MR. GARRAND-I've got a question for Staff. Craig, this correspondence we received from
Lavelle & Finn, have you gone over that?
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-I have.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. Can we go through this item by item?
MR. BROWN-We can maybe at the public hearing when the author may want to discuss it or,
we can do it now if you want to, but.
MR. GARRAND-No, we can wait until public comment, because I'd like to get these out of the
way.
MR. BROWN-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-We'll wait until public comment.
MR. LAPPER-We wouldn't mind talking about it, if Craig wants to go through it.
MR. JACKOSKI-Why don't we, do you want to read it?
MR. GARRAND-I'll read them. (lost words) correspondence from Lavelle & Finn,
"APPLICATION NOT COMPLETE...... a. Town Code Section 179-4-010-G(4)(c)[a] prohibits
removing more than 30% of vegetation from the site. The current proposal requires removal of
90% of the vegetation"
MR. JACKOSKI-Go ahead and keep reading.
MR. LAPPER-Well, we could do one at a time.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is that all right? Craig, isn't there, isn't that contradictory to Code that you can
clear up to one acre?
MR. BROWN-Yes, that's exactly right. There's another section of the Code, I think it's in Article
Five, that talks about, you can clear up to an acre without needing any Town approval, and in
the history that I have, any time there's any sort of conflict in the Zoning Ordinance, typically
that's going to be found to be in favor of the property owner. So I'm not going to call him out on
needing a variance, if I'm going to lose that battle. So it's not something you need a variance
from.
MR. GARRAND-"The soils test performed by the applicant failed to conform to the requirements
of Town Code 147, Schedule B or the NYSDEC SMDM, Appendix D. No soil tests were
performed in the presence of a Town designated engineer".
MR. CENTER-I can respond to that. The New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation, in their own appendix, I believe it's F, qualifies a registered professional engineer
to perform soil testing for stormwater management design. I'm a registered professional
engineer. I performed all the soil tests and the percolation tests. The confusion may come in
with the Town Code for wastewater systems. The Town Code for wastewater systems has a
time limit, time of year. Under 136, outside of that timeframe the test pit needs to be witnessed
by the Town Engineer. On this site the test pit for the wastewater system was done outside that
timeframe, and it was witnessed by Paragon Engineering who was the Town Engineer at the
time. The other additional test pits that were performed at the request of the Town Designated
Engineer during the stormwater process we followed the stormwater design manual for those.
MR. GARRAND-Neighbor's septic system. "Applicant has failed to identify and request a
variance from the separation distance required between applicant's infiltration device" and their
own.
MR. CENTER-Okay. That's the same one we talked about the 64 feet between the wastewater
system here and here. That would be this distance from here to here. Again, we have no
adverse impact from the infiltration device that we're proposing to the up gradient neighbor's
septic system. There's a, about a four foot rise from here to here, where this is on higher
ground. The influence from the infiltration device cannot affect.
MR. GARRAND-And that's measured from the septic tank and not from the neighbor's?
MR. CENTER-That dimension is measured from the absorption system, whatever it may be,
whether it's a bed or it's trenches.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. GARRAND-Okay, and then it's got one here, I didn't see on the drawing where this one
was. "Applicant has failed to identify and request a variance from the shoreline setback
requirement of 50 feet, where the proposed shoreline setback is 46.1 feet. I didn't see that on
the drawing.
MR. CENTER-Okay. That was an error in the input of the application. It should read, I believe
it's 51 feet, in earlier versions. It didn't get picked up in earlier versions we had a deck over the
line. I didn't realize the deck needed to be behind the setback line. We corrected that. I just did
not make the correction on the shoreline setback for that corner on the application page. That's
it. So it does meet, as you can see on the plan, that would be down in here in the southeast
corner of the deck, you can see the dashed line that's just outside the deck above. That is the
setback line, and our deck, and the entire building is behind it. That was an error on my part,
and we will correct that. It's actually 51 feet, I believe, from the, pretty much the corner of the
parcel to that corner of the deck is approximately 51 feet.
MR. CLEMENTS-Is that the one that's labeled 30 feet, or 30.60 feet right now?
MR. CENTER-No, it's labeled 31.30 off the property line. We're 31 feet 30. That's more from
this corner right here to this corner of the deck.
MR. CLEMENTS-Okay.
MR. CENTER-That would be the dimension.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. This one, I'm not sure where they're getting their measurements from on
where site clearance is going to be relative to the wetlands, but on here they have "Applicant
has failed to identify or seek a relief from the Sections of the Town Code that prohibit removal of
vegetation within 15 feet and 35 feet of designated wetlands". I don't see what they're referring
to on the drawing.
MR. BROWN-It's probably the clearing if you look at where the, I guess the overflow trench
comes out of the rain garden towards the wetland. You can see the proposed clearing line is
about, I think it's labeled some place, 10 feet to the edge of the wetland. Typically that's a, and
the way that it's written in the Code, it's not completely written out here in this letter, but that's a
buffer requirement, a shoreline buffer requirements, and all buffer requirements and waivers are
dealt with by the Planning Board. It's not a variance requirement. It's a buffer requirement that's
dealt with at Site Plan Review.
MR. CENTER-And we have filed the appropriate wetland permit application for that work with
the Planning Board.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. The next one, did you guys have a copy of this?
MR. CENTER-Yes.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. Thank you. Go to Item F., which prohibiting the treatment of roadway
runoff with a rain garden.
MR. LAPPER-That's a Highway Superintendent issue.
MR. CENTER-Well, no, I believe that what you're looking at there is rain gardens are used for
treating runoff from residential driveways and in this application, that's what it's used for. What I
believe the lawyer and Mr. Klein are referring to is the use of plowing some of the Town road
into the rain garden device, and stormwater management design manual generally says for
large commercial applications, this is not an accepted practice because of the larger volumes of
stormwater and things and the filter device itself. This is not a larger commercial application. As
a matter of fact, the Lake George Water Keeper uses a rain garden to treat the entire volume of
his commercial parking lot, and it says in their annual report that it works fine. This application is
much smaller than that. There's a small amount of roadway that's going to be plowed and used
towards the end. It's on the very fine line with the stormwater design manual, but as a generally
accepted practice, and it says, in the rain garden design portion of the stormwater design
manual, rain gardens are used to treat driveway water, hard impervious surface, and roof water.
MR. GARRAND-Item G., I don't know if that even applies to us here, depth of the rain garden.
MR. CENTER-Again, it does say generally it should be six inches, but most rain gardens, and in
these applications, we do go over what that means, is when we talk to the applicant about the
plants that are used in the rain garden, we make sure we get water tolerant plants, depending
on the elevations, based on our Hydro Cad results, how deep is it going to get, what are going to
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
be the more tolerant plants versus the less tolerant plants. That's something that's, over the
years, as they maintain these things, they work to get the right plants in place. We design it for
the worst case scenario is stormwater. That may not see that same amount because of the
conservative design. So they may have to start playing around with plants to get the right ones.
That may be what we have conservatively designed, you know, may be too dry or not wet
enough and they may have to start moving plants around, over time, to see, you know, what
works for them, but generally that's the generally accepted of how we plant when we do plant it.
MR. GARRAND-Earlier in the season it was ferns. I saw a bunch of ferns in there. Sunday it
was pretty muddy down there. I didn't see any ferns. Item H, "infiltration trench and basin on
areas with natural slopes of 25% and 72% respectively".
MR. CENTER-Again, this is application of the stormwater design manual for smaller uses. It
does have a 15% slope requirement within there. We have treated, that small area is going to
be leveled. There's a natural slope underneath there that may be 10, 15%, but with that said,
the stormwater design manual, if you were to take this to DEC and ask them, are we in
compliance with everything, they would tell you that the stormwater design manual is written for
disturbances greater than an acre and not residential sites, and we've been to the DEC and they
say, you know, the Town of Queensbury does bring it in. We understand that, but there's going
to be certain aspects of this that it doesn't apply to third acre lots. They do have, in order to get
to the stormwater design manual with DEC, you have to have a disturbance greater than an
acre, some other criteria, and then not be of residential design, a single family home. It's got to
be something larger, in the commercial realm, things like that, and that's why some of these
distances are so large, some of the separations are larger than the supplemental regulations
that are in the Town of Queensbury.
MR. LAPPER-And the Town Engineer has reviewed that.
MR. CENTER-And the Town Engineer has reviewed that, also.
MR. GARRAND-Rain garden maintenance, Item 1.
MR. CENTER-We believe we've answered all of the Town Engineer's questions in regards to
that. We did enhance some of the stormwater management language within the report, and that
is not an open item in his latest comment letter.
MR. GARRAND-Okay, and on to Item J. "While the latest proposal has significantly changed
the storm water management facilities, applicant has not yet submitted a revised storm water
report for review by the Town designated engineer." I imagine you've probably done.
MR. CENTER-We've been working back and forth, and that's probably the more open item.
We've talked with him today, Craig talked with him. We believe we have our understanding. It
will be firmed up for Site Plan Review, but it didn't seem to be any large outstanding item. More
engineering long between the two of us to come up to agreement that we're on the same page
of the Hydro Cad calculations and then bring them in the stormwater report.
MR. JACKOSKI-And as far as Staff can guide us, that isn't really a Zoning Board issue at this
time. That is for our Planning Board. Correct?
MR. BROWN-Item J? Yes, absolutely. There's, probably every item, E through J there, I have
written on here as N/A, they're not applicable.
MR. JACKOSKI-To us.
MR. BROWN-To the Zoning Board, right.
MR. JACKOSKI-They may, certainly can be dealt with at the Planning Board stage.
MR. BROWN-Yes, clearly part of the Site Plan Review when they do the stormwater review
there.
MR. JACKOSKI-But certainly good information for us to also understand.
MR. GARRAND-That's it for the items.
MR. JACKOSKI-Any other questions from Board members? Okay. We are going to continue
the public hearing at this time, and again I'd like to remind folks that we are going to limit
conversation to four minutes per speaker. I do want to note that we did open the public hearing
last time that it was advertised, and we would appreciate it that if you hear some of your
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
comments already addressed, that you really don't need to spend more of your time talking with
us on that matter because we've already heard it, but certainly we understand if you wish to
address it again. We do have quite a bit of written comment this evening. If you have sent in a
letter and you will speak this evening and don't need us to read your letter in to the record, that
would be great. Just let us know that and we'll try to minimize the time for everyone. So, again,
the four minute clock will be set. What we'll do is set it for three minutes, so that when you hear
the alarm, you'll know you have about a minute to wrap up. Right, Roy?
MR. URRICO-Right.
MR. JACKOSKI-All right. I know the Water Keeper is here. I'm sure he's going to want to
speak. Are there other people here who'd like to address the Board this evening? Sir? If you
could just state your name for the record, and your connection with the project, that would be
great. Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
ARKLEY MASTRO
MR. MASTRO-My name is Arkley Mastro. I'm the author of the January 11th, Lavelle and Finn
letter that was referenced earlier. I've been engaged by four clients that live in close proximity to
this project, and I would hope that I would be able to speak four times the four minute limit, but if
I go over my initial four minutes, I'm sure you'll let me know. Simply put, based on a review of
the application, this is a project that I don't believe should be built. It's been very difficult to
review and analyze the application because it's been a moving target. In fact, we heard tonight
the application is not final yet, as of a few days ago. The application that I initially reviewed had
changed. So it's very difficult to comment on that. I think it's difficult for this Board to finalize the
public hearing and certainly take it to a vote because the application's not final as yet.
Ultimately this Board will have to use the balancing test that's set forth in the Town Ordinance
which says that you have to balance the benefit to the applicant for the variance against the
detrimental effect on the health, safety, and welfare of the neighborhood, which includes Lake
George. Lake George provides drinking water to most of the residents around the lake, certainly
those in the Dunham's Bay and Assembly Point area, and most of the seven variances that have
been identified in the application relate to proximity to the wetlands, which is essentially a filter
for runoff before it gets to Lake George. Separate and apart from the seven applications for
variances, there are 10 other items that the Board just addressed, and by the way, I would waive
the reading of my letter into the record in detail, to save some time.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you.
MR. MASTRO-But the only thing that's modest about this project is the size of the lot. It's about
a third of an acre, but it has a substantial number of variances that are required. Those are
variances that are required not only from the Town Code, but from State health codes as well.
The variances that have been asked for are far from modest. They're outrageously substantial.
How often do you see applications for Area Variances that are 90% and 50% and 36%, and the
Board can't look at each one of those variances independently? You have to look at the
cumulative effect of all seven of those variances, plus the other 10 items that I mention in my
letter, the cumulative effect of all of those deviations from the Codes, which protect the health,
safety, and welfare of the neighborhood and the lake. The cumulative effect of those will have
nothing but a detrimental effect on the wetlands and the lake itself, and I don't have to tell this
Board what the effect of the lake is on the Town of Queensbury. Most towns that I'm aware of,
when there has to be construction of a road to service a single site make the developer pay for
the cost of that road. I don't know that this Board or the Planning Board has the authority to
authorize an applicant to appropriate the use of that road for a private driveway. I think only the
Town Board has the authority to do that, and if the Town Board has the authority to do that, I
think it's subject to a Town referendum that the taxpayers have a right to weigh in on. This lot is
so small and the variances requested are so substantial that they've located one of the rain
gardens on Town property off the front of the property at the end of Forest Road. That's an
impermissible use, I believe, of Town property that only a Town Board can weigh in on. In
addition to the violations of various Town Ordinances and health ordinances and I know it's not
within the purview of this Board, but the application, as it sits now, is in violation of some of the
restrictive covenants of the subdivision, the Shore Colony subdivision that was adopted by the
Town in 1957. Just one of those restrictive covenants prevents construction of any structure or
garage within 60 feet of the roadway. The last proposal that I saw, unless it's been modified yet
again, puts the garage 39 feet from the road. It's a violation of the setback rules established as
a restrictive covenant for all of the subdivision properties in Shore Colony. This Board, no Board
has the authority to approve that variance. That'll be dealt with by the other homeowners who
relied on it when they bought their lot in the subdivision. My review of the application, since we
heard tonight that it's still going to be amended again, and we pulled a couple of variance
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
applications off the application because that's been changed, I don't think the application's
complete, and if it's not complete, you can't close the public hearing, and you can't take a vote
on the application. I think if you balance the potential benefit to the applicant, this applicant I
suspect, and this is supposition on my part, but I believe they don't own the property yet, but
they have a contract to buy it, conditioned on their getting the necessary approvals from this
Board and the Planning Board, and probably the Town Board. If they don't get those approvals,
they can cancel the contract and receive their deposit back and they don't have to buy it.
Everything that's before this Board is a self-imposed hardship. It doesn't have to happen. It
may be, I will agree it's a modest lot, but it's a substantial house requiring substantial variances,
I suspect variances that you don't see very often, and I would ask that the Board determine that
this application is not complete. It's not right for a vote as yet. The engineer who does some
work for my clients hasn't had a chance to see the latest application yet. So you can't really
make final comment because it's a moving target. Once it comes before your Board and you've
completed the public hearing, and I think you'll hear from the Water Keeper tonight as to the
effect of the wetlands will have on Lake George. I think it would be incumbent upon the Board to
deny the application because the potential benefit to this applicant is grossly outweighed by the
detriment to the health, safety, and welfare of the neighborhood, the character of the
neighborhood, the wetlands and potential water quality of Lake George. That's my comment.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Sir, Mr. Klein? And again, we probably have about another four
minutes, if you don't mind.
DAVE KLEIN
MR. KLEIN-If you don't mind I'd like to pass around a handout.
MR. JACKOSKI-And do you have one for the applicant, as well?
MR. KLEIN-Yes. I'd like to comment on a couple of things that were said earlier, and if the
Board wants to go through the letter that Lavelle & Finn wrote, we can do that, too, but I'm not
going to be able to get it all in in four minutes. First off, the section through the retaining wall on
the application calls for 12 inches of impervious fill underneath the pervious pavers. So I don't
know how it can be impervious fill and still be permeable. So I would classify the grass pavers
as being impervious surface. Second off, the applicant said the road's going to be extended 65
feet; it's about 20 feet wide. That's about 1300 square feet. Where are you going to get even
the asphalt for 1300 square feet for $1800? We have a quote from a highway construction
company that said that if they paved it and put a sub-base in, it would be around $10,000. If
they had to provide, excuse me, Craig, could you put the overhead up?
MR. BROWN-Which one?
MR. KLEIN-This surface right here is just grading directly into the wetlands. There's no
stormwater treatment for it. If they had to put some stormwater treatment in for that impervious
surface, it would be another $10,000. So, I don't think they can buy the asphalt for $1800. I'd
like to go through the compounding effect of all the relief that's requested on this property. Both
the, we have five separate regulations, the Town stormwater code, the New York State
Residential Building Code that's applicable to single family residences, the New York State
Health Department Appendix 513, the Lake George Park Commission Stormwater Regulations,
and the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation stormwater management
design manual. All require that infiltration devices, this one right here, that's servicing vehicle
traffic, have a 100 foot separation from a proposed, from a well or a wetland. They're asking for
a 90% variance for the separation distance to the wetland. They moved the well. So, you know,
I haven't had an opportunity to take a look at that, but they were looking at a 50% variance
there. Five agencies have this very important requirement because it's necessary to provide the
biological, physical, and chemical treatment through adequate contact with usable soil. When I
say usable soil, that's dry soil. It's not soil that's subject to seasonal high groundwater. It's not
soil that's subject to surcharge from stormwater. It's dry soil. As the nutrients and pollutants
travel through this dry soil, they attract to the particles of soil and the soil has a limited capability
to attract and attach these nutrients and pollutants to them. When you reduce the separation,
the vertical separation distance, they're asking for more relief, and I'm not sure if they really
have a foot and a half of usable soil, but they're asking for 50% relief in (lost word) usable soil
underneath this infiltration device. So that's another 50% relief. So when you're asking for 90%
relief here, and then you're asking for another 50% relief, you know, you're asking, they're
actually providing 5%, if you take 10% times 50%, you end up with 5%. They're asking for 5% of
what is required by Code. That's a 95% variance.
MR. JACKOSKI-How about one more.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. KLEIN-Well, I've got quite a few more. Let's see. I try to address the requirement. The
Code clearly states that the separation distance between an infiltration device and this infiltration
device starts right there. That trench is an infiltration device. It says it's supposed to be 100 foot
away from a wastewater system. Okay. The reason that they have this requirement is the
hydrology of this property; everything slopes down to the wetlands. It slopes from up here.
They've got a large wastewater treatment system here. We have a large parking lot up on this
property here, and all the runoff from a surcharge, you know, a high event storm is going to
come down this 27% slope. The applicant did install a ditch on the uphill side of this wastewater
treatment system, but this soil is supposed to be treating the effluent from this wastewater
treatment system. Now it's got to treat the effluent from this wastewater treatment system.
Then you've got a surcharge of stormwater into that soil. It's going to saturate the soil and push
that effluent faster down into the wetlands. Then it's going to have another surcharge at this rain
garden, and that's going to push it faster down into the wetlands. So you're actually reducing
the filtering effect of the stormwater. Another quick thing. I have several others, but I will try and
wrap it up. The applicant installed this drainage ditch.
MR. JACKOSKI-Sorry, but time's up, but, Mr. Klein, let me ask you, you said that the western
property owner's parking lot and wastewater treatment system, they aren't managing their own
stormwater on their own property, it's actually flowing onto this person's property?
MR. KLEIN-Correct.
MR. JACKOSKI-So they're not managing their own stormwater?
MR. KLEIN-Stormwater, correct. There's no stormwater controls off that parking lot, and that's a
27% slope coming down there.
MR. JACKOSKI-Could they actually install stormwater management controls on their own
property?
MR. KLEIN-They probably could, but there's no, I don't know that. I haven't evaluated the
property, but there's no onus for them to install stormwater. They're not doing anything. That
property has been that way for many years, and the parking lot gets full.
MR. JACKOSKI-I'm just thinking of car fluids and things like that that are polluting from that
other property.
MR. KLEIN-Yes, that is where I'm heading. So now we have this steep slope.
MR. JACKOSKI-Well, I would hope that that neighbor wouldn't be polluting their neighbor's
property, but we'll keep moving. Go ahead.
MR. KLEIN-The property is, there's actually two homes on the Iakeshore side of that property.
It's an extended family that owns it. They have, you know, family get togethers and that parking
lot gets full. They rent out the cabins when they're not, or the camp or the homes when they're
not available, and that property gets, that parking lot gets used fairly regularly. This ditch that
they installed, okay, their intent was to intercept the stormwater before it saturated the septic
system, but inadvertently it comes down here and when they took out the rain garden that was in
behind the house, the ditch actually falls and actually discharges on the neighbor's property. So
all the runoff off this on the back part of their property is going to go into that ditch. You're going
to have stormwater that's, there's no filtering effect from this parking lot, and it's only 14 foot
from their well. The State Health Department regulations, which are required under the
residential code, say you have to have a 25 foot setback between a drainage ditch and a well.
You know in this situation, you might have a 200 foot setback to that well because you're picking
up pollutants from other properties.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else here this evening who'd like to
address this Board concerning this application? Mr. Navitsky. Mr. Klein used two of your four
minutes, so you're down to two.
CHRIS NAVITSKY
MR. NAVITSKY-Well, I figured if you read my letter, that's five minutes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Do we need to read your letter into the record?
MR. NAVITSKY-I'll grant you relief from that.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you.
12
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. NAVITSKY-Sorry to see you're down a Board member. Chris Navitsky, Lake George Water
Keeper. We have concerns about the extent of the requested variances and potential negative
impacts to the environment. First of all, we do believe the application is incomplete and
important information is lacking necessary to determine the adequacy of the stormwater system.
The stormwater management report is missing. Although you note that that's not part of your
review, it clearly is because you're reviewing variances on stormwater controls, and if you don't
know the extent of those, either that can't be determined if they're adequate without that
stormwater report. So it is an incomplete application. The requested variances will produce an
undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. Currently a substantial protective
buffer is present along the large wetland complex within Assembly Point providing important
ecological and water quality benefits such as removing pollutants from runoff, maintaining
infiltration, providing habitat and diversity and corridors. The placement of the rain garden and a
road in close proximity removes these important protective measures. Also we do feel that the
30% clearing limit in Waterfront Residential district was set there for a reason, for water quality
protection. I don't think the Town encourages clearing of one acre within a Waterfront
Residential district. So I think that's a clearly, a misinterpretation. Also, I did not know the
Planning Board can grant relief from items in the Zoning Code, such as a 15 foot buffer. That is
Section 179-4-010-G.4.c.6. Again, I don't know if the Planning Board can grant relief from
Zoning Code measures. The requested variances are not the minimum necessary for the
applicant to achieve their intended use and can be considered substantial. There are
alternatives that were referenced. So those have not been discussed. It should be noted 90%
relief is substantial and indicates that site constraints should restrict the development on this
site. It also should be noted the project was determined to be a major stormwater management
project to provide an increased level of water quality protection because it's in a Critical
Environmental Area. This application reduces all water quality protect measures that are
required. So, again, we think that that's going the opposite way. Variances will have a negative
impact to the environment and the neighborhood. First, the shoreline setback for infiltration is
necessary for biological, physical, and chemical treatment through contact with the subsurface
soils. When you decrease that required length of treatment, you're reducing treatment. Second,
the design will impact water quality by failure to capture and treat runoff from impervious
surfaces as required by Town Code. It should be noted the Lake George Park Commission has
Memorandum of Understandings with all Town Highway Departments that states Highway
Departments "shall design stormwater management provisions for all new Town highways".
There is no stormwater provision for this. This is part of the project. They're using it as a
driveway. You can't segment that out. Third, without the submission of a Stormwater
Management Report, it cannot be determined if these devices actually are the minimum
necessary and if you need to encroach more into that setback that they're already taking 90%
from. Fourth, the reduction in the required vertical separation will impact water quality through
decreased treatment. Finally, the infiltration requirement for the separation or the extent into the
frost layer is very important, because we see that there's a lot more rain events during the
wintertime, and that's why you have that extent into the frost layer so that when we have these
rain events, the ground's frozen, the water can get in there. So they are proposing to have none
of that. So, again, we think, in closing, we're concerned about the granting of these variances
and the impact that it will have in the Critical Environmental Area and feel that there is more
information that is required and necessary, and that the application is incomplete. I'd like to note
a couple of things, since we were given some publicity here. We appreciate that applicants and
consultants look at that. However, one of our first fact sheets on low impact development is the
protection of natural resources, and that would be protecting the buffers. That was not
referenced. There was also an erroneous note about the rain garden on our office property. It
doesn't take our entire property. It only takes half of a parcel that is just under one acre. So,
again, that is irrelevant to this discussion. Regarding roof is clean water, if you compare runoff
from forest to runoff from roof surfaces; you get 15 times the amount of nutrients that come out
of that. So it's not clean water. It may not have hydrocarbons, but it's not clean. You're not
reducing the nutrients. Wastewater systems can influence stormwater systems. Clearly that will
happen and saturate the system, and, you know, regarding the stormwater, New York State
stormwater management manual, that was set up to create the uniform standards throughout
New York State. So, again, it was set up for a reason, and it's clearly, it's written in the preface
that the manual is set up to have standards throughout New York State for stormwater devices.
So, with that, if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.
MR. JACKOSKI-I have one, Mr. Navitsky. Given the third acre size, do you think that this lot is
unbuildable?
MR. NAVITSKY-1 think it's very difficult. I think you have to grant the minimum variances
possible. I don't think that you're there yet. It is a lot, so you have to give it every effort to try
and minimize those variances. I don't think they are right now.
13
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Is there anyone else here this evening
who'd like to address the Board? Ma'am. Welcome.
BEVERLY POZZI
MS. POZZI-Thank you. I'm Beverly Pozzi and I live on Assembly Point, and my family has been
there for about 60 years. I've written this, and I'll read it to you and then hand it over.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you.
MS. POZZI-It's addressed to everyone. It has come to my attention that the referenced
applicant is requesting that they be allowed to build in close proximity of wetlands on a small lot
of one third acre, the size of which would require clear cutting the property. In addition, the
Town has agreed to extend asphalt pavement to accommodate the applicant. The applicant has
proposed to use town property for stormwater management. I cite two properties where clear
cutting has led either to damage to the home and or increased water which leads to runoff.
Following clear cutting of the ridge on Assembly Point, a home, below the ridge suffered a
flooded finished basement. This home has existed since the 1950's and was remodeled in
subsequent years and never before was there any leakage into the basement. The second case
is on Bay Pkwy, adjacent to the wooded Otyokwa property. Many trees were downed in that
area during Hurricane Irene. The Otyokwa Directors then ruled that they would be removed,
however, additional standing trees were also removed, and the land was literally torn apart by
the equipment. The Directors refused the residents' request to voluntarily replant deep rooted
trees. As a result of this clear cutting, residents' are experiencing water on their property as
never before. Two of these families have planted several deciduous trees on their own
properties. All of this has educated many property owners of this fragile peninsula to the fact
that disturbing wetlands leads to a negative impact on Lake George. The removal of trees,
whose water absorption is critical to stemming erosion and stormwater runoff will further
damage this area. Increasing the coverage of asphalt on the land decreases water absorption.
I ask that the Board adhere to their Zoning regulations so that there is no further damage to the
wetlands, the lake, and possibly other homeowners' properties. Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate it. Is there anyone else here this evening?
Ma'am, if you would, please. Thank you.
LISA ADAMSON
MRS. ADAMSON-Yes. Lisa Adamson. I'm also from Assembly Point, and I see at least seven
of our Assembly Point water quality awareness committee members here tonight, and I've also
received a number of e-mails and phone calls from people on Assembly Point who are very
concerned, and this is because we've, those who are out walking and driving on and off the
peninsula see the effects of what Beverly was talking about with the denuding from storms and
clear cutting and we see the properties that have been built on the jurisdictional wetlands, which,
in my opinion, shouldn't have been built there, as if they've sprung a leak in the past couple of
years, and I know most of you know because I've been in front of the Board before, that
Assembly Point Road is tilted towards the lake, and so when these properties get excessive
water on it, then the water just goes right into the lake. So that's what we're seeing currently
now, and I'm very concerned that this property being discussed and the variances could result
in, I don't think there's any guarantee that what's being presented would prevent negative
impacts on the wetlands from lack of effective infiltration, and basically my question would be, I
mean, if we know that the lake is all under these stresses, not just stormwater, not just septic,
you know, invasives has a high profile, and if, I mean, some of us question whether the
ordinances that we have to date are even strict enough, much less not being enforced
thoroughly. Why would we grant variances in a time when, this is a time when we need to be
very, really adhere to the letter of the laws that we've made. We've made them for a reason. I'd
also like to speak on behalf of a friend of mine who's on the water quality committee, Dr.
Lorraine Ruffing, who questions why the Town would even consider extending the road to this
piece of property. We've all lived with roads that, you know, aren't; don't need to be paved on
Assembly Point for years until recently. So, that's it, and I just urge you to consider going with
the letter of the law in this case. Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Mrs. Adamson. Is there anyone else here?
KATHLEEN MALONEY
MS. MALONEY-Other people have said things so that perhaps I don't have to repeat what they
said, since I only have four minutes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Sorry. Thank you.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MS. MALONEY-Good evening.
MR. JACKOSKI-Good evening.
MS. MALONEY-I'm Kathleen Maloney and I'm here tonight to speak against the area variances
requested by Steven and Jennifer Kitchen on Forest Road. Since 1959, my family has owned
36 Forest Road, the abutting property, and the impact that it will have on my family's property, I
feel, is substantial. They're asking for a 90% variance, separation from the wetland, and based
on the computation, the calculations that were done, and the engineer and everything, it's a 95%
separation distance variance that they're requesting, truly, based on everything. The fact that
they're building the rain garden in Town, on Town property, because they can't put it on their
property and stormwater management devices should be on the property in which they're
servicing. I find that is also very bad. In addition, the stone trench now has a pond, and
unfortunately because the latest plans we haven't seen and there's no really, on the plan, prior
plan that I saw, there weren't even dimensions on there. The stormwater management report
was last updated, revised in September of 2012. You haven't even seen it. The stormwater
management report that they submitted to you, for your review along with all these requests for
stormwater, variances for stormwater management devices, is from September. It doesn't even
have any of the new changed devices that they're requesting in different locations. Now to
stone trench on the property which is near the edge, there's a pond around that. Water can sit in
that. We don't know how long it's going to be in there. It could become stagnant, and then we
would have an issue with potential mosquitoes an West Nile. We have a rain garden that's
going to be getting the road, the supposedly only the additional paved part, the 65 additional feet
that they want to pave, the water will runoff from that into that rain garden. The water will runoff
from the pavers which are grass, with an impervious surface underneath, so there's more water
running there. In addition, from the rest of, that doesn't mean there's not water coming from the
upper end of Forest Road, it's gone down there for years. It comes down very fast. So we have
all that. In addition to the fact that the back of the property where the septic system will be put,
there's going to be a trench, and everything, the water can go around. We might end up having
some other issues there. I really feel very strongly that the laws should be, they were created
for a reason, and the New York State stormwater management manual was created and it
should be kept in effect for this property. It's not, oh, because it's a smaller property, no, it was
made to be in effect for all of New York State to be applied equally to every property, and it
should be applied to this property. That's what laws are for. They're there to be reviewed.
They're there to be enforced, and there to be used appropriately. I don't know what else I can
say. I am not an engineer, but I do understand how to understand and read statues and
regulations and rules. That's what I do for a living. So you have to cross reference different
rules and regulations, but if something is put in place for all of New York State, I don't believe it
should not be applied in this particular. I also believe that this, as other speakers have said, this
is not a complete application, and we haven't had an opportunity, as part of the public, to be able
to read and review something that was changed as of maybe this morning, and in order to be
able to comment on something like that, we should have the opportunity to review all the
documents, and that's not been given to us. Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-You're welcome. Thank you. Is there anyone else here this evening who'd like
to address this Board concerning this matter? I see no one. We're going to leave the public
hearing open. We have a lot of correspondence. The applicant can re-join us at the table. Roy,
do you need help in reading all this in, or are you going to?
MR. URRICO-I'm ready.
MR. JACKOSKI-When you get hoarse and we can't hear your voice anymore, we'll take over.
MR. URRICO-"Gentlemen: I'm writing this letter as an adjacent landowner to the referenced
property and in opposition to the Kitchen Area Variance Requests. My property is immediately
south of the subject property. It is evident by the number and magnitude of variances needed to
make this property code compliant, that it should not be developed. In addition to the numerous
non-conformities identified by others, this proposal impacts my property as follows: • The
current grading plan calls for construction of a drainage swale that starts on the northwest
corner of the subject property (between two wastewater disposal systems), travels completely
across the property and discharges all of the runoff onto my property. I object to altering the
drainage path to concentrate stormwater and potentially wastewater onto my property. • My
property is a portion of the Shore Colony Subdivision with a Forest Road address and has
historically been assessed a water system tax. Construction of Applicant's stormwater
management system on the Town road prohibits connection to the Shore Colony water system
and access to Forest Road. (There is a 6' discrepancy in our survey and the Tax Map that
affords us access to Forest Road). I question the Town's authority to allow the Applicant to
construct a stormwater management system on public property. Tropical Storm Irene damaged
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
much of the vegetation that surrounds and protects the wetlands that abut the subject property
as well as my property. Removal of additional vegetation and depositing snow containing sand,
salt and other contaminants, so close to the wetlands, would only have a detrimental effect on
the wetlands, water quality of Lake George, and our neighborhood. For the reasons outlined
above, I oppose granting any area variance as it will have a negative effect on the environment,
neighborhood and my property. Respectfully submitted, George R. Hearst III" And he's at 240
and 244 Lake Parkway, Assembly Point. I'm trying to sift through the ones that have already
spoken. Okay. I am in receipt of a letter from Mr. David M. Klein of North Country Engineering,
opposing the application of Steven and Jennifer Kitchen for a variance to build a small one
family home on a lot at the end of our street. The letter says North Country Engineering
represents several of our neighbors. Since I am unable to attend the January 16th meeting I ask
that it be determined whether the company is offering its services pro bono to help the planning
and zoning boards, or is it being paid, in which case I ask that these neighbors be identified. We
consider the beauty of Lake George to be a treasure. The Kitchens are proposing to use an
approved building lot in an environmentally sensitive way and we look forward to being able to
share our love of and respect for the lake with them. Please approve their application. I am
including a letter I wrote to Craig Brown in support of the Kitchen's application and ask that it be
read into the record. Sincerely, Mary Ellen Tedeschi 12 Forest Road, Lake George, NY 12845"
"This letter is in opposition to the granting of variances for the property on Forest Lane on
Assembly Point. Lake George has been my address since 1949. 1 have witnessed this lake
change over the years, and, not always for the good. We all are the stewards today so those in
the future will have the opportunity to enjoy this exceptional clean, clear, fragile treasure as we
do. Queensbury has accepted the challenge, and I write tonight to tell you not to weaken the
strong codes our Town has put into place. If we compromise those codes that protect water that
ultimately enters Lake George, we turn our backs on today and the future. The consequences
of a compromise expand with every drop of rain, and every downpour we often experience. This
is a relatively small lot; this is not what I would consider a "moderate" house. With the number of
variances requested, it becomes obvious that the requirements for this structure do not fit this
site. The particular codes considered here are not limited to only the neighborhood, they reach
much farther. It is not the place or the requirement for the codes to adjust to the builder; it is up
to the builder to adjust to the codes. Again, it is obvious this building plan is not appropriate for
this lot. I ask you to deny the Kitchen's their variances because it is our duty as a town to
protect our wetlands and ultimately Lake George and uphold the codes this Town made to do
so. Odd, people come here because the lake is a treasure; they just don't seem to know how to
preserve it. We as a town have the opportunity to educate them and direct them. Florence E.
Connor 6 Holly Lane, Lake George, NY 12845" Do you want me to read in letter in from the
New York State Department of Health?
MR. JACKOSKI-I think you need to read the Ahlers letter before that.
MR. URRICO-Okay. That's after that. "We have been immediate neighbors of the proposed
Kitchen property since 1977. My wife and I are alarmed by the proposal and wish to express our
opposition to it. The property is only 0.34 acres small, too low and too close to the wetlands to
be developed. The variances, ranging from 90% to only 30% of required zoning values make
the proposal quite unacceptable. The property, as also other properties in the immediate vicinity
has lost a significant number of trees during the last few years. That loss has been accentuated
by the massive tree loss during Hurricane Irene. Trees, especially close to wetlands, form an
intimate symbiosis with them. The general area has seen far too much development during the
last few years. Part of that development is the proposed extension of Forest Road. Tax payers
would have to foot the bill for the extension of the public Forest Road, as well as its
maintenance. Related to such unacceptable development and its negative impact on the
wetland is the construction of the proposed stormwater-water pond on public property. We have
codes to protect the health and welfare of the residents and the environment. Wetlands are a
precious resource not only for the wildlife they support, but also because they act as the "lungs"
of the lake into which the wetland waters flow. The codes which bind the Zoning Board exist to
protect precious public wetlands and the lake. Please resist the development of this property.
Sincerely, Rolf and Luise Ahlers 105 Knox Road" "Dear Sirs: /request that the contents of this
letter be read into the record of the Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting scheduled for
January le, 2013, or any other such meeting dealing with the proposed construction of a
dwelling, modification of the land areas in and around Forest Lane, Shore Colony, Assembly
Point, Lake George, New York. Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I have served as a
Professional Geologist and Naval Oceanographer for more than 40 years. Although I am
currently a resident of Maryland, I am a native New Yorker and a graduate of Columbia
University in the City of New York. Together with my brother, I am the second generation co-
owner of 6 Pine Tree Lane, Assembly Point, Lake George, New York. This property has been in
our family for over 50 years. I have been a seasonal resident of Lake George for over 60 years.
The continuing protection of Lake George and its associated watershed is a stewardship
responsibility and an absolute trust that my brother and I have gratefully and fervently carried
out during our entire adult lives. We will continue to safeguard this trust to ensure it is passed
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
on inviolate to our succeeding generations. Please note—We have not surrendered our proxies
and we do not need a self-appointed gadfly and dilettante, who alleges that he is our
(community) spokesman, to articular our desire to protect the future water quality of Lake
George. His hearsay and specious comments are misrepresentations and are not ours. I
hereby appoint and give my proxy actually and in kind to Ms. Kathleen Maloney Esq., or persons
determined to be her representative in these matters. In her absence I surrender my proxy to
any member of my family who attends the meeting. I do speak for my brother and our
respective families by stating that we are emphatically opposed to any action which would
adversely affect Lake George or its contiguous wet/ands. The superb water quality of Lake
George that the public continues to enjoy cannot be compromised by the intervention of an
individual or corporate entity. The proposed deforestation and development of the Forest Lane
lot will have an adverse affect on the Assembly Point wetlands and the Lake George watershed.
Mr. Kitchen et a/ have already acknowledged this adverse affect and his proposed multiple
mitigations can only hope to alleviate the de facto damage to the environment. The untested
and un-validated compensatory strategies for the multiple requests for variances proposed by
Mr. Kitchen might possibly minimize the impact of the known environmental effects that the
proposed dwelling and the Forest Lane road extension will have on the wetlands/watershed.
Mr. S. Kitchen, et al. cannotguarantee with absolute cenaintythat the potential contrivances he
suggests will not, of and in themselves, adversely affect the impacted wetlands and the Lake
George watershed. With the local ground water table so high and the groundwater geology of
the wetlands in jeopardy, will the effluent generated by the proposed large septic system
overpower the leach field/mitigating measures and cause e col/, heavy metals and other toxic
waste to be transmitted to the drainage ditch, the wetlands, and ultimately Lake George drinking
water? Your attention is again invited to re-read into the records, the cogent comments and
relevant statements by the Lake George Water Keeper, (Mr. Christopher Navitsky, P.E.) in his
letter to you, dated September 17th, 2012. You are also requested to review any input from the
Lake George Park Commission and their Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Town
of Queensbury Highway Department with respect to storm water management. Why take the
chance on negatively impacting "the Queen of American Lakes?" As diligent stewards and
guardians of the public trust you should not be willing to take that chance. This Critical
Environmental Area must be protected. Our moral obligation requires us as prudent custodians
of the natural resources to be ever vigilant to protect those precious resources entrusted to our
stewardship. Your collective mandate absolutely compels the prudent decision to err on the
side of caution and protect the fragile watershed environment. Exercising your wisdom and
good judgment as arbiters, honest brokers, and representatives of the will of the people who
have empowered you. l respectfully,pet/t/on, that without further delay, you deny all requests for
variances as described in the above reference. Sincerely yours, Gregory S. Bodenhorn" "It's a
shame something like this even comes to question. We were told years ago we could not build
a garage on our parking lot which borders the said property because it was considered
wetlands. That someone would even consider trying to break code, use town management and
taxpayer money to do something that will impact our precious wetland property is beyond
comprehension. We are totally against this project. It breaks laws on the books. Who enforces
the law? It seems folks just do as they feel with regard to code or law. Please read this letter
into the record. Evelyn Jaeger and Shirley Mockel 230 Lake Parkway Lake George, NY 12845"
And I have several letters that say the same thing. I'll read one of them. I'll mention the other
names.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is this the Bodenhorn letter?
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Ms. Maloney, do you want those two letters also read in?
MS. MALONEY-Yes, I do.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay.
MR. URRICO-"Dear Members of the Zoning Board of Appeals, I am writing to you as a lifelong,
second generation resident of Shore Colony, Assembly Point, Lake George, NY at 6 Pine Tree
Lane, and on behalf of my children and grandchildren, also lifelong residents at 9 Pine Tree
Lane, as second, third and fourth generation residents of Shore Colony, Assembly Point and
third, fourth, and fifth generation of seasonal visitors of Lake George dating back to the very
early 1900's on my grandparent's part, I am particularly concerned about an issue presented to
you for decision referenced as Kitchen AV 61-2012, SP 48-2012 & FW 3-2012. I would like to
be read into the record of meeting on January 16th, 2013 and/or any appropriate meeting of
particular, relating to these issues. This is a precedent setting case before you. The
environmental impact of this case can be the precedent for all future zoning appeals for
generations not yet born. We are custodians of the environment, Queensbury wetlands, Lake
George watershed, Lake George proper, the Adirondack Park, and New York State as a whole.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
All of these organizations and other New York State agencies (DEC, APA) have rules and
regulations in place to follow for good concern. As custodians we must act for the benefit of not
only the present generation, but for future generations long after we are gone. Persona like
Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, John Muir, and the Rockefeller family are a short list of
the visionaries of the environment we now live in at Lake George. I ask you to join that list of
public servants and protect our fragile environment on Assembly Point and vote no on any
appeal or variance request which directly or indirectly impacts our water shed, water tables,
wetland areas, or our beloved Lake George. Consider the needs of not just an individual
seeking wealth at the expense of the environment and others, but consider the wealth of the
environment for all others. I would also like to state for the record, on behalf of all members of
my family, that I rebuke any statements made on our behalf by David Wilcox of Forest Lane,
Assembly Point, Lake George, NY, and any other known addresses. He is not now, or has ever
been, my representative or acting on my or my families behalf. His fictitious representation of
any "snowbirds" of Shore Colony is contemptuous at the very least. I hereby appoint and given
my right of voting on this matter as referenced above to my proxy actually, and in kind, to
Kathleen Maloney, Esq., or anyone deemed to be her representative in this matter. Thank you.
Russell Bodenhorn 6 Pine Tree Lane, Lake George, NY 12845, also 6 North Fourth Street, New
Hyde Park, NY 11040" "Dear Members of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Board of Appeals, I
am writing to you as a lifelong, third generation resident of Shore Colony, Assembly Point, Lake
George, NY on behalf of myself and my children, also lifelong residents at 9 Pine Tree Lane, as
third and fourth generation residents of Shore Colony, Assembly Point and fourth and fifth
generation of seasonal visitors of Lake George dating back to the very early 1900's on my great
grandparent's part, I am particularly concerned about an issue presented to you for decision
referenced as Kitchen AV 61-2012, SP 48-2012 & FW 3-2012. 1 would like to be read into the
record of meeting on January 16th, 2013 and/or any appropriate meeting of particular, relating to
these issues. As an environmental community we need to have rules and regulations which are
steadfast. We must have certain unchangeable structural codes and regulations which stand up
to not only nature, but the test of time. I ask you to consider the impact of buffer zones and
correct setbacks of any run off in future storms (i.e. Storm Sandy of 2012). 1 ask you to protect
our fragile environment on Assembly Point and vote no on any appeal or variance request which
directly or indirectly impacts our water shed, water tables, wetland areas, or our beloved Lake
George and its environs. I would also like to state for the record, on behalf of all members of my
family, that I rebuke any statements made on our behalf by David Wilcox of Forest Lane,
Assembly Point, Lake George, NY, and any other known addresses. He is not now, or has ever
been, my representative or acting on my or my families behalf. His fictitious representation of
any "snowbirds" of Shore Colony is contemptuous at the very least. I hereby appoint and given
my right of voting on this matter as referenced above to my proxy actually, and in kind, to
Kathleen Maloney, Esq., or anyone deemed to be her representative in this matter. Thank you.
Jonathan Bodenhorn 9 Pine Tree Lane, Lake George, NY 12845" "Our family has owned our
property on Assembly Point for 42 years and I am speaking in opposition to this project. The
property is too small, too low, and too close to the wetlands to be developed. They require too
many significant variances which I do not support. I adamantly object to the extension of the
road at the taxpayer's expense and construction of the stormwater pond on public property, and
so close to the wetlands. We have codes to protect the health and welfare of the residents and
the environment. The codes should be adhered to. Approval of these variances would have an
adverse effect on the environment and the neighborhood. We need to do everything we can to
protect the wetlands and the water quality of Lake George. Sincerely, Peter Brothers" And I
don't have his address. It's Forest Lane. I don't have an exact address for him.
MR. JACKOSKI-I believe he's Old Assembly Point Road.
MR. URRICO-Yes. "We have reviewed the application along with the associated details relative
to the variance request that will be the subject of a hearing held by the Board of Zoning Appeals
on Wednesday, January 16, 2013. We have determined that the variance request described by
the applicants has merit and should be approved forthwith. Thomas and Kristen Louis 17
Chestnut Lane Assembly Point, Lake George, NY 12845 and 143 Devils Lane Ballston Spa
NY 12020" I'm not sure about this next one here.
MR. JACKOSKI-Mr. Klein, this is a string of e-mails that you sent, Brian Tollison and Mailroom,
and Dave Hatin, Craig Brown.
MR. KLEIN-Would you like me to summarize?
MR. LAPPER-That had to do with the well which has now been re-located.
MR. JACKOSKI-I know, but it is public record. So I need to, if you wouldn't mind paraphrasing,
that would be great. Can you grab the microphone? I apologize.
18
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. KLEIN-The New York State Residential Building Code requires that any well be installed,
well, first off they preface if you're on a public water system, they prefer you to connect to the
public water system and Shore Colony was established to have a public water system back in
1957, because of the small lots. Every time somebody puts a well in, you impact, you have
impacts. It could impact the neighbors' ability to put a septic system, which is a matter of law
because it's a filed map, but anyhow, going back to the string of e-mails, the Department of
State says there's no exception to conforming to 10NYCRR Appendix 5, yes, 513, which requires
a certain separation distance between a well and an infiltration device that's taking contaminants
off the road, and it also has setback requirements with the ditch, as I was talking about earlier.
You have to be 25 foot away from the well with the ditch. Thank you, sir.
MR. JACKOSKI-The next one is the Wilcox?
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay.
MR. URRICO-"To members of the Zoning Board of Appeals and of the Planning Board: As
neighbors at 26 Forest Rd. of the lot at the end of our street that the Kitchen family proposes to
develop, please accept our comments in support of their endeavor. At prior meetings we
submitted written comments and made an oral presentation in support of their project. The
proposal has been revised subsequent to our submission of those comments. To make it clear
that after reviewing the current proposal, for the reasons stated previously, we continue to
support the Kitchen's proposal. The Kitchen's have addressed significant design concerns with
reasonable solutions that not only protect the Lake, but also provide a reasonable option for
development of an approved building lot. Accordingly, we encourage the members of the ZBA,
and the Planning Board, to approve the requested variance. Dave Wilcox Vicki Zeldin 26 Forest
Road Assembly Point, L.G. "I am writing in support of the application of Steven and Jennifer
Kitchen for the development of a single family home at 38 Forest Road on Assembly Point. We
have been enjoying our camp on Forest Road for over 25 years and would be happy to have this
new addition to our community. The Kitchens have shared their site plan and house design with
us and I believe their seasonal residence would be an improvement to our neighborhood. I'm
very pleased with the environmental features incorporated in the design; especially the
permeable concrete and grass driveway grid system and rain gardens to filter water back to the
ground. I hope you will approve the application. Sincerely, Mary Ellen Tedeschi 12 Forest
Road"
MR. JACKOSKI-I do believe that is all the current public comment that we have. Is there
anyone else in the audience that would like to address the Board one last time? We're going to
keep the public hearing open and we're going to talk with the applicant a little more, and then
probably poll the Board. Sir, if you don't mind, Jonathan. Sorry.
WILLIAM MALONEY
MR. MALONEY-I'm William Maloney. I don't know do you have this one up there?
MR. JACKOSKI-Yes.
MR. MALONEY-That's it, there. Kathleen's my sister. So we grew up there all these years, and
the only thing that I have a concern about, everything everybody talked about, I'm not an
engineer, and I do understand the water going downhill, but nobody has addressed, from
Wilcox's house all the way down to ours the pitch, and if you stand there in a rainstorm, it's a
river, and it all ends up right where the want the rain garden, in the corner right there. Every bit
of the water from the entire street ends up there, and somebody up here, I don't remember who
it was, said that it's muddy there at times. That's the reason why. Every bit of that runs right into
the wetlands. That's the only thing I would like to hear addressed because I don't believe, what
did you say your property is 25 degree pitch on it?
27.
MR. MALONEY-Twenty-seven, okay. Well, ours is similar to that, and all the way down to
Wilcox, I mean, it slows down a bit across the street, and every bit of that water that comes off of
everybody's property goes onto the street and runs down, right to where he has the rain garden.
MR. JACKOSKI-We will have the applicant address that for you.
MR. MALONEY-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-We will certainly look at that.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. MALONEY-Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, and again, to everyone here in the audience, we have granted a bit
of latitude because there's obviously a lot of information on this project that we need to get
through. So thank you for those of you who are waiting for other applications for being patient
with us. We do want to get as much information on the project as possible before we have to
render our decision. So, again, thank you. Mr. Lapper.
MR. LAPPER-Okay. Yes. Just to put this in perspective, the vast majority of the lots in Shore
Colony and the neighbors who have registered concerns were built a while ago and they have
no stormwater facilities whatsoever. This lot is a double lot. The Maloney lot next door is half
the size of this lot, also on a pitch, as was described, and the water flows from their property into
the wetland untreated because it was built before stormwater regulations were in place. This
application is a way to design stormwater facilities that comply as much as possible with the new
laws, based upon the fact that you have a sloping lot that ends near a wetland. So there is
infiltration and there is treatment, and the only thing here, because it's a hill and because it flows
downhill, the proximity of the lowest treatment to the wetland is close to the wetland, but it is
being treated and it is being infiltrated before it goes into the wetland, and ultimately, as we've
discussed, the wetland is a filter, and people have made these generalized comments, of course
it's easy to say protect Lake George, but Tom has measured, and this area of the wetland is 881
feet from the outfall to Lake George, so that no one has said or could say that there's a
detriment to the wetland or to the lake with this project there. It's designed by the engineers to
comply as much as possible with the regulations, seeking variances for the areas that it can't
comply, changed to make it comply again and the only change, the only recent change to
relocate the well, which was a suggestion of the Town Engineer, and a good change, but
comparing this to all the other properties that don't have stormwater devices at all, stormwater
infiltration, of course that's why you have a wetland because it's running downhill from those
properties into the wetland, but this is a way to design it as well as you can under these
regulations that weren't around when the neighbors were there, and again, double size of the
neighbor's lot and of many of the other lots in Shore Colony. So, taking a pre-existing building
lot and trying to adapt it with the new, the current regulations, and I think Tom's done a good job,
and the Kitchens haven't asked for too big a house and haven't asked for too much impervious
surfaces. So that's what this is really about. Would you like to comment?
MR. CENTER-Any questions in particular that you folks have, we'll go over. If there's anything
that came up in the public comment section that you have additional.
MR. JACKOSKI-The Zoning Board members want to start or do you want me to start?
MR. URRICO-I guess the first question I have is whether this needs to be re-advertised,
because this project continues to evolve, and where we looked at, even what we looked at as far
as this application, has changed. Two of the variances are no longer on the table. One of them
may have shifted slightly, and I'm not really sure where we are with this. I wonder if the public
needs to hear, get a chance to see the application as it exists today, rather than how it existed
when it was advertised.
MR. JACKOSKI-Well, it's my understanding from Staff that the entire packet that we had was in
place at the Town when this was publicly advertised. Correct, Craig?
MR. BROWN-That's correct, and if you read the agenda description, which is the same
description that is put in the public hearing notice. The relief requested from the separation
distance is required for infiltration devices. There's no specific, and we write these agenda
descriptions and public hearing notices on purpose that way, so that don't ask for specific,
request reliefs, so we don't have to re-advertise if something gets tweaked, either, certainly if
they're asking for more relief, you have to re-advertise that. If they're asking for less relief, then
there's really no need to advertise for less. So, to answer your question, in my opinion do you
need to re-advertise this for the changes that have been presented tonight? My opinion is no,
you don't.
MR. URRICO-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-I think one of the biggest questions that are lingering here, folks, is this
extension of the road on Town property, and it's my understanding that that is the purview of the
Highway Superintendent for the Town of Queensbury, just like when the road was first paved
back to where it is now. I guess you could argue the same argument, that that road was put in
place then as an extension of the driveways that went nowhere. It stops there just before this
lot. So my question is this. Can you complete this project without that extension of macadam?
20
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-I guess that would kind of put it back into a question Roy just asked. If the road
isn't extended, they don't have the minimum required road frontage on a public highway. They
would need to seek a variance from that minimum road frontage requirement. That takes away
some asphalt, takes away some impervious surfaces that may drain in this direction. They'd still
be here with relief requests, and maybe adding one to have a lot without frontage on a public
highway.
MR. JACKOSKI-And a public highway must be paved.
MR. BROWN-It has to be constructed to Town standards. Yes.
MR. GARRAND-What are Town standards?
MR. BROWN-That's a specific question you'd want to ask the Highway Superintendent. If he's
reviewed this plan, he's accepted.
MR. GARRAND-If so, it becomes a $20,000 piece of road.
MR. BROWN-Well, that's up to the Highway Superintendent to determine.
MR. LAPPER-Well, I think there was, didn't you get a communication? I thought that the
Highway Superintendent had addressed that with you.
MR. BROWN-If it is, it's in the file. The only letter I know of from the Highway Superintendent in
the file says he's seen the plan. He's willing to extend the road to give them the frontage that
they need. I can tell you from personal experience in dealing with the Highway Superintendent;
it's not the first time that this has occurred. That's what the Highway Superintendent does. He
provides public highways to lots in the Town. I mean, that's what they do.
MR. JACKOSKI-And this is Town property.
MR. BROWN-Yes.
MR. LAPPER-Part of it is just that in the Town Highway budget there's always improvements
every year. I think 65 feet of road for another house is pretty minimal, but in terms of the, you
know, the cost, it's part of the Town Highway budget and they've got Town employees and
materials and I think it's just part of what the Highway Department does.
MR. JACKOSKI-Mr. Center, what percentage of the rain garden pond storm control device at the
end of the quote unquote road on Town property is necessary for this project versus how much
of it is actually there helping the Town with its runoff?
MR. CENTER-It is, the rain garden is 100% for the driveway. We've over designed it with the
storage volume. There's additional storage volume there. It is the wishes of the Highway
Superintendent to plow; they look at it as a benefit to plow some of the snow into it to use it as a
buffer and not plowing it directly into the wetland. So it's not designed, and I don't think there's
anything that, we've never been required to design stormwater design devices for offsite runoff
that we had that aren't on our parcel. It's down at the bottom of the slope in order to capture all
the runoff coming off our property as close as possible. It is, we've worked with the Highway
Superintendent, and we had a couple of options. This was the one he felt most comfortable
with. This was the one that required the least amount of work for him to extend the road, and
with the way you see it now, he did not want to change the grade, the pitch. He's going to, you
know, match it, pave it to the end, and allow us to build a rain garden within the right of way,
similar to, you know, how you would have drywells and the wing swale, then it would capture
stormwater runoff from any driveway that slopes going down. Most houses in the subdivision sit
up higher than the road. Obviously there's only one place for that stormwater to go, down in the
bottom of that driveway, and those devices are designed to capture that stormwater runoff. So
that's similar, in a sense, to this structure and what we're trying to do with it.
MR. JACKOSKI-In public comment, there was a discussion about the impermeable surface
under the permeable surface. If that could be addressed.
MR. CENTER-Yes. That's a standard detail on the design. We will change that. The grass,
permeable grass pavers, if you look on Drawing Number Two, has a stabilization fabric
underneath that's part of that drivable pavement device that stabilizes the soil. It has certain
compaction requirements, certain design requirements. We will change that note on that
drawing. It's not, it was an oversight when we put that detail on there, but we will correct that,
and again, just to clarify, we have not put this in the calculations as permeable surface. We
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
have treated this the entire time as an impervious surface similar to asphalt. So, you know, it is
being treated as an impervious surface, but yet it's designed as a permeable grass driveway.
MR. JACKOSKI-Can you meet the criterion if you were to go back and do those calculations and
not be that conservative and not have that rain garden ponds, whatever it is on Town property?
MR. CENTER-Because of the slope you can't get capture in that permeable pavement. So
that's, again, does it slow down the runoff rate coming down? Yes, it does have some effect on
that. It's not the smooth surface as asphalt. It will get, on the smaller storms, it will get some
capture, but, you know, overall, it's more of the pollutant removal and the filtering factor that you
get out of a permeable grass driveway, which then, that stormwater ends, as you see at the very
bottom of the driveway, right along the edge, there's a stone level spreader, which again filters
the stormwater, takes it and spreads it out so it's not a point discharge directly into the pond, and
then allows it to spill over into the rain garden. So we've got a couple of things going on before
the stormwater coming off that driveway even gets to the rain garden, and then it gets to the rain
garden, and when it gets to the rain garden, you've got the plant life that has some uptake of
nutrients and things out of the stormwater. You have a filter media that it goes through before it
gets to the final layer which is the infiltration portion or dispersal for the water out through the
soil. So really it's kind of got three types of treatment in the pond itself, and then there's two
other things that are occurring prior to the stormwater getting to the pond, and knowing that, we
have these variances that we were going for, you know, we went for the most treatment as
possible before it got to that pond. So, you know, the treatment train is quite long before it gets
to the rain garden, knowing that we would have these variance issues to deal with.
MR. JACKOSKI-Any other Board members like to address the applicant at this time?
MR. KUHL-How about the drainage ditch that you pitched around the house.
MR. CENTER-Can you call up that, Craig, on the PowerPoint real quick? Okay. Whenever you
design stormwater, the stormwater is overland flow. That is a drainage swale. It's not a ditch.
The ditch line that has traditionally been in the Appendix 5B that we've treated in the DOH
section, is for the ditch line alongside of the road that is getting impervious surface that is
running to it. Up here, on the Lands of Maynard here, he has some grading that goes around
his, the septic system here. There's a small depression right here that captures some of the
drainage that goes around, but there is no obvious drainage path coming down and over that, as
if it were overtopping and putting material, stormwater material down the slope and coming
down and eroding down the house. We looked at that. I purposely brought the Town Engineer
up there to show him that, that the area that's upgradient really there is no overflow that comes
down here and comes down this way. We've been conservative in the approach and included
the entire area for one of the subcatchments to include all of this area that comes off here. I
have not; I've been up there several times during rain events. There's been several heavy
storms in the recent past. There's no obvious flow, stream, if you will, or anything that comes
down over this area out of this small depression that's on the backside of this gentleman's septic
system, but in essence when we build the septic system, you take overland flow, anything that
would come off this slope and down here, and you'd direct it around the devices. It's grass, it's
going to be brush, New England style lawn that's allowed to grow up. It's not going to be a
mowed type surface where it's a smoother grass type that'll get channelized flow, but it's meant
to keep stormwater that comes down these slopes away from the house, channel it around any
well. The new well location to this swale is greater than 25 feet, as Mr. Klein requested the
lower one, even though we feel it's not, there's no impervious, polluted water going through that
ditch line, but we still kept the 25 feet with the new location of the well, and then it goes down
and follows the natural path as it does now. Anything that comes down this slope follows the
natural path down in this direction and off the site.
MR. JACKOSKI-Craig, the public comment had a bit to do with was perceived as the incomplete
application, in particular the stormwater management plan itself, our ability to reference that.
MR. BROWN-Right.
MR. JACKOSKI-What is your?
MR. BROWN-What is my opinion on whether the application is complete with regards to
whether you guys have the stormwater report or not?
MR. JACKOSKI-Right.
MR. BROWN-The stormwater report is reviewed by the Town Engineer. I'm not sure if anybody
on the Board's reviewed a stormwater report, but probably 90% of that report is just a bunch of
math that really talks about all the types of flows, the volumes, the watershed areas, and there's
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
really not a lot of, in my opinion, a lot of benefit from the stormwater report that you get from all
that math. I think this map is a better indication of what they're doing on the site with regards to
how they're going to control the stormwater and the structures and features they're using. I
don't think you get any benefit from reading the stormwater report that you don't get from this
plan.
MR. JACKOSKI-And historically we've relied upon our Planning Board and Site Plan Review to
more thoroughly review all of that detail.
MR. BROWN-Absolutely. There really isn't anything in a stormwater report that you need
variances from or if you don't have the report you need a variance for not having a report.
There's really, it's typically not a document that's provided to the Zoning Board. There's really
no information there for the Board.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Any other comments from the Board members at this time?
MR. KUHL-Yes. The rain garden you're building outside the property, why didn't you move that
closer to the house?
MR. CENTER-You're talking this one right here?
MR. KUHL-Yes, if you were just capturing your driveway.
MR. CENTER-Because, we're capturing the driveway. We are, you know, everything slopes
down to the end of the driveway. We're held to their back end to this point to the setback from
the septic system. We have to provide some turn around capacity to get in and out of the
residence there and capturing everything at the bottom was the easiest way to gather the
stormwater to treat it through a filter. It's a more level location. We are actually building higher
than the grade, and it was something that we sat down with the Highway Supervisor and said
how we want to do this. We had something different that we first proposed. He did not like it.
He was going to keep the elevation of the road, the existing elevation of the road the way it was.
He asked us, you know, how can we treat this differently, and we ended up with coming at the
end of the road, which actually gives a benefit to both parties for the snow that gets pushed off.
MR. KUHL-Well, what about the volume of water that would come down from the road in heavy
rains?
MR. LAPPER-That's coming down anyway.
MR. CENTER-That's coming down anyway, and it will be deflected out into here. We haven't
designed it to capture this trench and take it into this pond. This is actually higher, on higher
grade. It's built on the parcel, upslope. Any stormwater that would come down would actually,
instead of coming out and going down this way, is actually going to go through this larger area of
where the wetland is further back into the backside, or off the page, if you will.
MR. LAPPER-We can't treat the neighbor's stormwater, but we can treat the Kitchens'
stormwater.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. I think it's time to poll the Board.
MR. LAPPER-Jennifer just wanted to make a comment.
JENNIFER KITCHEN
MRS. KITCHEN-Yes, I would like to make a couple of comments. You know, it's been a year
journey, frankly, on this property. The design you see is many iterations down the road. Taking
into account multiple public comments and thoughts from around the neighborhood. I'm an
engineer. My husband's an engineer. We do this for a living. We're both in regulatory
compliance for extremely complex projects globally. This is what we do for a living. When we
saw this parcel, we were aware of the neighbor and the neighbor's desire to cross that parcel to
get into their own. We understand the politics on this particular parcel. We believe, you know,
we could come up with an environmental solution to this parcel, meeting today's, actually it's
above and beyond. These requirements are really meant for commercial and larger size
developments. When I look at what we're trying to achieve here, I think we're very proud of
what we're putting in front of you. Is it perfect, no lots are? That's why this one's a challenge,
but it's doable. When you really look at Assembly Point and you look at all the houses along the
road, water just sheds right directly into the lake. There's no buffer, there's no, right now salt's
running right into the lake. They're plowing right into the lake. We're actually in a really unique
spot. I know we want to treat the wetland. It's very important. It's critical. I think you can see
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
we're very serious about putting money and time and effort into this lot to do the right thing, but
we can't be held to such extreme standards that nobody else complies with. So I would like you
to look at the merit of the job, look at what we're trying to do, and really understand it's all been
in good faith, and I understand and I share the same the same sentiments as the neighbor's do,
but I think we're above and beyond. I'm working with the Town, the Town Engineers, working
with the, you know, the Town Superintendent of roads and the DEC and the laundry list goes
wild. It's been a year, and I think we really have done the homework, and I'm really proud of our
team to do that, and I just wanted to say, you know, I appreciate the time and, you know, I
appreciate everybody's comments, but you do, rubber has to meet the road eventually. So we
can have public comment as long as we want and everybody's feelings about it, but really we
have to look at it on its technical merits. So that's all I asked is that the ability to go through the
various process with just as much protection of me as the applicant as we do with everybody
else. So that's all I ask for is some fairness.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Mrs. Kitchen. So I know Joyce doesn't want to go first.
MRS. HUNT-No.
MR. JACKOSKI-Rick, would you like to go first?
MR. GARRAND-No, but I will.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you.
MR. GARRAND-This is a really tough one. In such cases I like to look at the balancing test on
this. I think the engineer's done a fabulous job on stormwater mitigation here, but at the same
time we've got to look at one thing, this lot is going to be pretty much de-vegetated, and that
vegetation is what soaks up a lot of the water in this area. It does have the potential to have
harmful impacts on the neighborhood. The Staff here has quite eloquently stated that the relief
is substantial to moderate for what they're requesting here. Also I'm looking at the fact that the
infiltration, whereas it's supposed to be down to the frost level, isn't, but all in all, looking at the
project, it's a tossup. Can benefits be achieved by other means feasible? The Water Keeper
seems to think we can do that, that there are ways that benefits can be achieved. I'd like to
know from him. Maybe he could get together with the applicant and find some way to reduce
the level of variances that he thinks can be reduced. Will it produce an undesirable change in
the character of the neighborhood? None whatsoever. Is it substantial? Yes, as outlined by
Staff. Will it have adverse environmental effects? It quite possibly could. At this point, with the
de-vegetation of the property, I think we could run into a situation where we could have erosion
in areas we never had it before. We could have groundwater, higher seasonal groundwater than
we've ever had on the neighboring properties in this area. Is it self-created? Given what they
have on this lot, I honestly don't think it's self-created. Looking at the balancing test, it's three
out of five negative.
MR. JACKOSKI-And?
MR. GARRAND-Well, given it's three out of five negative, at this point I can't be in favor of it. I
mean, it's close, but they've done a lot of mitigation here, a real lot of mitigation. I think they've
done a really fabulous job of working with what they've got.
MR. JACKOSKI-Do you believe the lot is buildable?
MR. GARRAND-Actually, yes, I do think the lot is buildable. I just think that, you know, they're
going overboard using Town property to mitigate some of what has to be done to make this a
buildable lot. I mean, should the taxpayers be paying for, you know, a road? I mean, if the
Highway Superintendent thinks the Town standards is two inches of top as they have outlined
on that drawing, I mean, you know, that's a pretty substandard road. Also you figure that two
inches of top, ten by ten area, is about a ton of material at about $95 a ton for materials. So the
length of that road, do the math. It's quite a bit of money, but it's a lot less if he's going to build it
to those standards. They've done a great job here designing this. I mean, they've got this stuff
crammed in here. They've done everything they can to make this work for this size house. I just
think the Water Keeper was right. It might, there might be a way to get this smaller. If not, we
could be doing irreparable damage to this area.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you. Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-Thank you. This is difficult. I do think that this is a buildable lot. My first
concern, I guess, was the size of the house, but you're not asking for a floor area ratio variance.
So you're in compliance with that. You have taken away two of the variances that you were
looking for. So it looks like you made some positive changes. I think you've done your due
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
diligence, as Rick said also, and I think you've done some service for the neighbors, and even
for the Highway Department. Even though you're going to be working on some of that property,
I think it's going to be to their benefit also. I think that what we have here is the rights of the
property owner versus the concerns of the neighbors and the environmentalists, and in looking
at the plan that you have, the length of time that you've taken to put this together, the answers
that you've given to a lot of the questions and a lot of the questions that the neighbors had, at
this point, I might like to see the house a little bit smaller, but I would say that I would vote in
favor of this with the house with that size.
MR. JACKOSKI-Ron?
MR. KUHL-Thank you. I think your first request and your last, the next to last one, one and the
foot and a half relief for the three feet vertical separation are too great, and the fact of using the
right of way to capture, if the Water Keeper's got a better idea, that's where you should go. I'm
not in favor of it the way it is now. I think it's a buildable lot. I think the house is a good size. It's
just capturing the runoff. So I'm really not in favor of it the way it is.
MR. JACKOSKI-Roy?
MR. URRICO-I just want to back up a little bit and say something about why we're here,
because we've heard a lot of comments made regarding the Code and following the Code and,
you know, what we should be doing, and the ZBA, the Zoning Board of Appeals, exists as sort of
a safety valve to make sure that we're not so, the Code's not so onerous that a property owner
doesn't have a right to develop their property. At the same time, we have to be careful that we
don't allow variances to exist that will do injury down the road, and I think when you're dealing
with an area like this, I think we, yes, there are five variances that I count, still on the table.
Some of them are substantial, as defined by Staff, and I think in this case we have to be extra
careful and make sure we're making the right decision. Because once we go down this path, we
could be doing irreparable damage to the area. So I would, I think you've come a long way. I
know it's been a long process, but I think we have a little further to go on it, and that's where I
would be at this point. I'm sort of neutral on it, but I would say, if I had to vote tonight, I would
vote no, but I think there's room to approve this.
MR. JACKOSKI-In your opinion it is a buildable lot?
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. I'm torn myself. I really listened to what the Water Keeper said, and I wonder
if it is a buildable lot, and I would not be in favor.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay and I emphasize when we suggest that it's a buildable lot, that maybe it's
a buildable lot, depending on each individual application. So I have concerns about the water
management system being on Town property. I think I need some more clarification from Town
that we can actually do that, that we can actually let an individual property owner actually locate
on the Town property. I brought that to Staff's attention earlier today. I do have a concern with
that.
MR. LAPPER-We will get that documented.
MR. JACKOSKI-As far as, I think it's great that the Highway Superintendent has found a way to
work with you to try to capture some of that runoff coming off of that road. I think that that's a
really important matter. That would certainly benefit that area. In general I think the lot, I think
there's something that can be done there. I do appreciate your efforts in putting this together. It
is a process. We're all trying to get through that process. I agree with Brian that we are here to
be that check valve. That's what we're here for. We are the appellate board because the Code
can't possibly apply to every single parcel in the Town, and that's why we're here, because we
have that authority to take an individual look at properties when it's a unique situation. This is
clearly unique. That water system that Shore Colony has there, the Town of Queensbury
manages. That is a seasonal water supply. So that water is not available to this property year
round. So I understand the need for the well, but I, too, am like Brian. I'm going to stay open on
this, because my instinct is that you're going to come back to us with something that can maybe
try and address the ownership issues with that particular water control device.
MR. LAPPER-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-Does anyone on the Board want to add anything at this time?
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. KUHL-Can I just ask a question? Somebody brought up 1954 or 1962 covenants that says
you have to be 60 feet off the road.
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. KUHL-Could we go through this whole process and then you get?
MR. LAPPER-Well, here's my legal answer on that. The declaration of covenants is a private
property matter. So it's not a Town matter, but we've counted that there are five other garages
that are within 60 feet. So once a covenant is not enforced against somebody, the case law is
that it's not going to be enforced against everybody because it hasn't been.
MR. GARRAND-It's enforceable by the HOA, right?
MR. LAPPER-Yes, but it's just not something that a court's going to enforce. Even if it's not
enforced by the Town, but I believe, as a matter of law, that it wouldn't be enforced by the HOA,
by a court, because other people have done it for many years, and in fact somebody's
constructing one right now.
MR. JACKOSKI-Yes, we addressed this as Board months ago with Wilcox, and I think the
argument was made, I don't remember by whom, that that garage language was intended for a
standalone garage structure. What would the applicant like us to do at this time?
MR. LAPPER-We would ask to table. We'll take all your comments into consideration, and we'll
certainly get something documented about the use of the drainage within the Town right of way
and we'll do what we can to tweak this and make this a little bit better.
MR. JACKOSKI-And I think if you could address, if the turnaround on the property isn't
necessary, if that is a way to reduce the driveway area.
MR. LAPPER-We'll look at that.
MR. JACKOSKI-Because this is a dead end road. You have to wonder if we really need to, I
understand, maybe, is backing onto a highway illegal?
MR. BROWN-Well, it's not a violation of Town Code, but it's probably a violation of DOT.
MR. JACKOSKI-I don't know that answer. I assume the fire trucks, when they go down that end,
have to back up the road, too, and I assume that the plow has to back up.
MR. LAPPER-We might be able to back in to the driveway. We will certainly look at making this,
maximizing the design to minimize the stormwater treatment. Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Thank you. Can I get a motion, please, to table this matter?
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 61-2012 STEVE AND JENNIFER KITCHEN,
Introduced by Richard Garrand who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
Tabled to the March 27th meeting with a deadline of February 15th before close of business for
submissions. To allow the applicant to explore alternative site layout and to allow the applicant
to document the allowability of use of the right of way for stormwater.
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
MR. JACKOSKI-Is there a particular date, month, time, Jonathan?
MR. LAPPER-I guess we would look to submit, what are the meeting dates in March?
MR. BROWN-20th and 27tH
MR. LAPPER-Could we schedule for the 27th
MR. JACKOSKI-I can't tell you, Mr. Klein, if it will be complete, but I will tell you that the normal
submission deadline is, Craig?
MR. BROWN-The submission deadline is always the 15th of the month.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is the 15th of February a weekend?
26
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-It's a Friday.
MR. JACKOSKI-Friday, February 15th before the close of business here at the Town Center.
Two questions by Mr. Brown.
MR. BROWN-Do you want to get a second before you discuss it? Just two conditions that you
probably want to put on it.
MR. JACKOSKI-All right. So why don't we hear what you want to add and then we'll get a
second to the amendment.
MR. BROWN-I guess just to clarify the two conditions, to allow the applicant to, I guess, explore
alternative site layout and to allow the applicant to document the allowability of use of the right of
way for stormwater.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. So we do have a motion. We do have the clarification that Staff has
provided for us. Do I have a second?
MRS. HUNT-Second.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Joyce. Any further discussion? Please call the vote.
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
MR. JACKOSKI-And, again, everyone, thank you for all of you who have attended. It's been a
long evening, a long application hearing, but we greatly appreciate your time and energy on the
matter. We're going to move right along, please, to the next application.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 52-2012 SEQRA TYPE I LARIC DEVELOPMENT AGENT(S) J.
LAPPER, ESQ. & S. BITTER, ESQ. Bartlett Pontiff Stewart & Rhodes OWNER(S) DKC
HOLDINGS, INC. ZONING MDR LOCATION LUZERNE ROAD, OFF EXISTING BURNT
HILLS SUBDIVISION APPLICANT PROPOSES A 36-LOT RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION
WITH LOTS RANGING IN SIZE FROM 1 ACRE TO 2.52 ACRES. RELIEF REQUESTED
FROM MINIMUM LOT SIZE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MDR ZONE. CROSS REF SUB NO.
5-2012 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING YES LOT SIZE 58.8 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 308.12-
1-3 AND 7.1 SECTION 179-3-040
JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. JACKOSKI-This matter is going to be tabled. We will open the public hearing, and do you
want to read a short version into the record? Did we already read it into the record? Yes, twice,
October and December.
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-So we're not going to necessarily read this application again into the record. Is
there anyone here this evening, I have the public comment continuing open. Is there anyone
here this evening who's here to address this Board concerning this matter?
PUBLIC HEARING OPEN
MR. JACKOSKI-Seeing no one here, I'll leave the public hearing open. We do have a request to
table this matter to March 20th with an application deadline of February 15th. Can I have a
motion to table?
MOTION TO TABLE AREA VARIANCE NO. 52-2012 LARIC DEVELOPMENT, Introduced by
Richard Garrand who moved for its adoption, seconded by Roy Urrico:
Tabled to March 20th with an application deadline of February 15th
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Clements, Mr. Urrico, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Kuhl
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. JACKOSKI-New Business.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 01-2013 SEQRA TYPE II LORI AND DAVID FLORIAN AGENT(S)
HUTCHINS ENGINEERING OWNER(S) LORI AND DAVID FLORIAN ZONING RR-3A/MDR
LOCATION EAST SIDE OF TEE HILL ROAD, 0.5 MILES FROM BAY ROAD APPLICANT
PROPOSES LOT LINE CHANGES TO SIX (6) EXISTING CONTIGUOUS PARCELS ON TEE
HILL ROAD. PROPOSAL IS FOR A CLUSTER LAYOUT WITH ACCESS BY A NEW PRIVATE
ROAD. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM LOT SIZE, WIDTH, DENSITY AND SETBACK
REQUIREMENTS OF THE RR-3A ZONING DISTRICT. CROSS REF SPR 1-2013 WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING JANUARY 2013 LOT SIZE 17.44 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 289.7-2-7, 10,
15, 16, 1, 24 SECTION 179-4-030
MATT STEVES & LUCAS DOBIE, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
STAFFINPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 01-2013, Lori and David Florian, Meeting Date: January
16, 2013 "Project Location: East side of Tee Hill Road, 0.5 miles from Bay Road Description of
Proposed Project: Applicant proposes lot line changes to six (6) existing contiguous parcels on
Tee Hill Road. Proposal is for a residential cluster development with access by a new private
road.
Relief Required:
Lot 1 No relief necessary
Lot 2 Lot width: 275' vs. 400' requirement Lot size: 2.08 ac vs. 3 ac requirement
Lot 3 Lot width: 275' vs. 400' requirement Lot size: 2.00 ac vs. 3 ac requirement
Lot 4 Lot width: 365' vs. 400' requirement Road frontage 0' vs. 400' requirement
Lot 5 Lot width: 200' vs. 400' requirement Road frontage 0' vs. 400' requirement
Lot 6 Lot width: 230' vs. 400' requirement Road frontage 0' vs. 400' requirement
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the Board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this Area Variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for
the applicant to pursue, other than an Area Variance. Feasible alternatives are somewhat
limited. The existing lot configurations would require similar variances to develop the lots.
3. Whether the requested Area Variance is substantial. The requested variances may be
considered to be moderate requests relative to the code.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The current proposal for this
property is roughly consistent with the 2010 Site Plan Review which called for the clearing
and re-grading of these properties in order to develop in the future.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance,
SP 51-2010 Clearing and Grading of land in excess of'/ acre Approved 9/28/2010
SP 1-2013 Development within 50 ft of 15% slopes PB recommendation Pending 1/15/2013
Staff comments:
The Rural Residential development; per Section: 179-4-010, D, (1), (b), [4] promotes the use of
a shared driveway layout for subdivision development. While this is not a subdivision, an
argument may be made that the use of a private drive to "increase flexibility of design" is a
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reasonable proposal with this plan. The planned lot line changes seem to be a logical design to
provide access to the existing, otherwise "landlocked" parcels.
Planning Board recommendation will be provided at the meeting.
SEAR Status:
Type II-no further review required"
MR. URRICO-And there was a Planning Board recommendation that said that, based on its
limited review, that they have not identified any significant adverse effects that cannot be
mitigated with the current project proposal, and that was adopted on January 15, 2013, and it
was a unanimous vote.
MR. STEVES-Thank you. Matt Steves with VanDusen and Steves, for the record, representing
Lori and David Florian, and Lucas Dobie with Hutchins Engineering. As Staff has stated, this is
property on the east side of Tee Hill Road, encompassing 17.44 acres. There was an existing
six tax parcels, and the proposal is to basically reconfigure those tax parcels, as Staff Notes has
stated, to a more usable, desirable (lost words) access and accommodate these lots. If you look
at the lower drawing on the easel, that is the existing configurations of the six parcels, and the
upper one would be the proposed configuration. There would be the existing house that is
located on the south westerly corner will remain and would be increased on that lot to include
the tax parcel up just to the north of it, to increase that existing home, and then create a private
drive to access five new building sites, or five building sites that currently exist but in a new
configuration. The access road would be in the, I'll let Luke speak to that a little bit. It would be
18 foot wide, and the rural character, it does have the turnaround provided for the fire access at
500 feet. It allows the lots to be developed. In particular, the way they currently exist, if you
were to build on those lots, all but two would need setback variances, not only the road frontage
variances because they're not on the road frontage, but they would also need setback
variances. Just the two large ones in the back would be able to accommodate the current
setback requirements, but with the new lot line reconfiguration, only two out of the five are going
to require any type of a building setback variance. So the three larger lots in the back are going
to be able to comply with the setback requirements of the zone, and again, the Planning Board
didn't have any particular issues with it last night, but I would leave it open for any comments
from this Board, and I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
MR. JACKOSKI-It seems pretty straightforward, but any comments from Board members at this
time? I see a lot of shaking heads. There's no comments?
MR. GARRAND-The DEC submission, this information should not be substituted for onsite
surveys that may be required. Has anybody done a survey of this property to see if there are
any endangered species on this property?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. GARRAND-Le. Kamer blue butterfly, because the DEC says it cannot provide definitive
stating the presence or absence of rare State listed species, natural or communities or other
significant natural communities on this site.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is this a typical habitat for the Kamer blue?
MR. STEVES-Not that I'm aware of.
MR. DOBIE-Not that I'm aware of, Mr. Chairman. I don't have the DEC letter with me, per se.
As I understand the language, that's their typical, their attorney language, if you will, and the
second half I believe, doesn't the first paragraph say that it's to have essentially no impact on
known habitats? Is that what it says?
MR. GARRAND-I've got it here. As per your e-mail August 19, 2011, 1 performed an
endangered and threatened species determination for the above parcels off Tee Hill Road in the
Town of Queensbury, Warren County. According to New York State Natural Heritage database,
there are no known occurrences of rare or listed species, but nobody's done an actual survey
out there?
MR. STEVES-No. They typically don't do the surveys. This is probably Jed Hayden from DEC.
MR. GARRAN D-Yes.
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MR. STEVES-Just like we had done on the DKC when we came in for the variance on the DKC
project, the industrial park, on Carey Road, if they don't have any.
MR. GARRAND-So they don't actually physically go out there at all?
MR. STEVES-Not unless it's a known area for it, like along the power lines, against, like the
properties on Sherman Avenue.
MR. GARRAND-Yes, like where our appeal is for tonight.
MR. STEVES-Where they know that there are existing habitats, and here what they do is they
have, they went through in the Town years ago did an analysis with Marilyn Ryba of all the areas
that had known existing habitat and existing Karner blue, not only habitat but actually the
species involved, and that wasn't, and the entire Town was documented, and this was an area
that was not identified as active habitat. So they keep it that way. That's just, as Lucas has
stated, the typical disclaimer because of the fact that, you know, one could fly over the land
there, you know, the next day and then they say we did the analysis but it wasn't there and today
it is, they always put that in there.
MR. GARRAND-Okay. I'm just not sure, because it's one of those few areas around Glen Lake
I've never been to, and they didn't have the lupine or anything in there?
MR. STEVES-No. It's not conducive pine barren like it is in the western portions of Queensbury,
and I agree with you, but that is, I've talked to Jed Hayden numerous times on this and that's
their standard letter for an area that has not had any type of habitat, never been identified as
having the actual species in that area.
MR. GARRAND-Thank you.
MR. STEVES-Not a problem, and while we're on that subject as well, there was also the SHPO
signoff on that, on this parcel as well at the time they came in for the grading plan for the site
plan to re-grade this site, and with the current proposal, the grading plan actually stays fairly
consistent with that, but actually it's reduced slightly and considerably against the southerly
border, so that it ends up with a lot more of a buffer area that will not be graded during the
subdivision grading plan, as compared to the original grading plan that was approved.
MR. GARRAND-Topography must have cost you a fortune.
MR. KUHL-Matt, this S-3, is this the way it is today, your S-3 print, it's the topography map, after
you split it up?
MR. STEVES-The S-3 is the topography with the proposed layout.
MR. KUHL-So that's not the way I looked at it today?
MR. STEVES-That is the way you looked at it today. That's the existing.
MR. KUHL-Isn't the SP-2 with the houses on it.
MR. STEVES-That's with the grading plan, yes.
MR. KUHL-The grades are different, right?
MR. STEVES-Yes, that's the proposed grading.
MR. KUHL-Okay. What's in between?
MR. DOBIE-The topography, sir, on Sheet S-3 is as it sits today.
MR. KUHL-Right, well, shouldn't there be one the way you're going to lay it out before you build
the houses?
MR. STEVES-You mean the grading plan before the houses?
MR. KUHL-Yes.
MR. STEVES-No. With a subdivision, we like to do the grading plan that's going to be
consistent with the structures that are going to be placed on these lots, because there's really a
site specific location for these houses and septics. So it's really a grading plan that lends itself
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to do it at the same time, and you're required, under your Planning Board review, to have a
grading and drainage plan for subdivisions, and in this instance with the larger lots and the
varying topography on the site, you really have to have a grading plan in place for the particular
lots.
MR. KUHL-I have a question, Craig. Does that inspector go out and look at that before they
start building, our inspector?
MR. BROWN-Typically not, we do inspections throughout development of the project at certain
times. At certain times if there's key things that are going to be, you know, covered up or buried
or installed on the ground, we want to inspect before they cover them up. Typically the project
engineer is going to go out and do that, too. Just for clarification, this isn't a subdivision. So
there isn't going to be a subdivision plan or, you know, anything submitted or reviewed by the
Planning Board. This project will require coverage under the New York State SPDES because
they're going to be disturbing more than an acre, and part of that plan they'll have to develop
erosion control stormwater devices. They'll have to develop that plan and get coverage to do
that. So, they're going to do those things.
MR. KUHL-But effectively they could do it lot by lot and not the whole in total before they start.
MR. BROWN-That's correct, yes, and I would anticipate that's what they're going to do.
MR. STEVES-Not entirely. The proposal, because of the common driveway, it's really a private
road. So a substantial amount of grading would be done at the time that the driveway is put in,
and during the stormwater requirements from DEC, as you had stated, there would be
continuing weekly inspections during construction by the design engineer that have to be met
and by DEC to be met and like I say Luke can talk more about that as the design engineer on
the project, but a substantial amount of this grading will be done during the construction of the
private road, and the private road will be completed before the houses are built, or the lots are
built on.
MR. KUHL-You're saying the driveway which is the road you're calling private road is it called a
driveway by the documentation?
MR. STEVES-It's called a private road.
MR. KUHL-A private road, is that what you're going to call it?
MR. STEVES-Yes.
MR. KUHL-That'll be done first, is what you're saying?
MR. GARRAND-You're going to plow it and everything?
MR. DOBIE-Yes, sir.
MR. GARRAND-A lot of people don't do that, plow their driveways. They call them driveways
but they're roads, and they don't plow them.
MR. STEVES-No, this will be maintained by the five lot owners and then divvied up accordingly
and then there'd be a maintenance agreement for that private road. Absolutely. We'll put it out
to bid if anybody here would be willing to plow.
MR. JACKOSKI-We're going to continue the public hearing. I'd like to continue the public
hearing that was advertised for this evening. Is there anyone here this evening who would like
to address this Board concerning this particular application?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. JACKOSKI-Seeing no one, is there any additional written comment, Roy?
MR. URRICO-No.
MR. JACKOSKI-No additional public comment. At this time we'll poll the Board, and we'll start
with Roy.
MR. URRICO-Yes. I think it's been explained very well. I think the application has explained
everything that needs to be explained. I would be in favor of it.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you. Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes. I think using your balancing test, the benefit, whether it could be achieved by
some other means, I guess it could, but there will be no undesirable change in the neighborhood
character or properties. The request is substantial but it's not out of line with what the Burnt Hills
subdivision is, and it's self-created only in the fact they want to develop the property. I would be
in favor.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Joyce. Rick?
MR. GARRAND-This project, I don't think in any way, shape or form changes the character of
the neighborhood, and that's one of the most important things this Board should consider when
we consider any project. We do not want to change the character of a neighborhood. I mean, if
they came in here and proposed something with a lot more density that would change the
character of the neighborhood. This will not. I'm with Joyce on this. I'm in favor of it.
MR. JACKOSKI-Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I'd also be in favor. I think that the layout here that they have for the lots,
those are, most of them, they're much larger than most of the other lots around there. I think it's
a good application. So I'd be in favor.
MR. JACKOSKI-Ron?
MR. KUHL-Yes. I think it's a good use of the land. I'm in favor.
MR. JACKOSKI-I'm in agreement with my fellow Board members. So would anyone like to put
forth a motion for us? I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MRS. HUNT-I'll make a motion.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Joyce.
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 1-2013 LORI AND DAVID FLORIAN,
Introduced by Joyce Hunt who moved for its adoption, seconded by Richard Garrand:
East side of Tee Hill Road, 0.5 miles from Bay Road. The applicant proposes lot line changes to
six existing contiguous parcels on Tee Hill Road. Proposal is for a cluster development with
access by a new private road. The relief required: Lot One, no relief; Lot Two, lot width is 275
versus the 400 requirement; Lot Three, lot width 275 versus the 400 requirement; Lot Four, lot
width 365 versus the 400 foot requirement; Lot Five, lot width 200 versus 400 foot requirement;
Lot Six, lot width 230 versus 400 foot requirement. Lot size: Lot One, 2.08 versus 3 acre
requirement; Lot Two, two acre versus the three acre requirement; Lot Four, road frontage zero
versus 400 requirement; Lot Five, road frontage zero versus the 400 requirement; and Lot Six
road frontage zero versus the 400 requirement. In making the determination, the Board shall
consider whether an undesirable change will be produced and minor impacts to the
neighborhood may be anticipated. Feasible alternatives are somewhat limited. The existing lot
configurations would require small variances to develop lots. The requested variances may be
considered moderate relative to the Code. The current proposal for this property is roughly
consistent with the 2010 site plan review which called for clearing and re-grading of these
properties in order to develop them in the future. The difficulty may be considered self-created.
I move that we approve Area Variance No. 1-2013.
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
MR. JACKOSKI-Congratulations. Thank you very much.
MR. STEVES-Thank you.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 02-2013 SEQRA TYPE II HAYES AND HAYES AGENT(S) NACE
ENGINEERING OWNER(S) HAYES & HAYES, LLC ZONING NR LOCATION DIXON ROAD
APPLICANT PROPOSES A RESIDENTIAL THREE-LOT SUBDIVISION FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF EITHER DUPLEXES OR SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. RELIEF
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
REQUESTED FROM THE REQUIRED 500 FT. SETBACK OF T HE IHOD (INTERSTATE
HIGHWAY OVERLAY DISTRICT). CROSS REF SUB 1-2013; SPR 80-2010 WARREN
COUNTY PLANNING JANUARY 2013 LOT SIZE 8.47 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 302.14-1-79.2
SECTION 179-4-035C
JON LAPPER & TOM CENTER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. GARRAND-Due to a potential conflict of interest, I'm going to recuse myself.
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 02-2013, Hayes and Hayes, Meeting Date: January 16,
2013 "Project Location: Dixon Road Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes a
residential 3-lot subdivision for construction of single family dwellings.
Relief Required:
Parcel will require area variances as follows:
Relief requested from the required 500 foot setback of the IHOD-Interstate Highway Overlay
District.
The entire project site is within this overlay district.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the Board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this Area Variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated. The proposed lots appear to be consistent
with existing single family parcels in the immediate area.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for
the applicant to pursue, other than an Area Variance. Feasible alternatives for subdivision
are limited. Alternatives to developing the land in question may include the construction of
an additional duplex.
3. Whether the requested Area Variance is substantial. The closest point of the proposed lots
is the southwesterly corner of lot 2 which is approximately 170 ft. from the limits of 1-87.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minimal impacts to the physical or
environmental conditions of the neighborhood are anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-
created. The adoption of the Interstate Highway Overlay District was after the applicant's
purchase of the property and during the approval of the duplex project currently existing on
the site.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance,
SUB 1-2013: 3 lot residential subdivision Planning Board recommendation scheduled 1/15/13
SP 80-2010: 7 duplexes. Land disturbance in excess of 0.25 +/- acres in the NR zone requires
Planning Board review and approval 5-17-11
Staff comments:
The proposed subdivision to create two single family dwellings on the frontage along Dixon
Road does not appear to be inconsistent with the existing residential development in this area.
Planning Board recommendation will be provided to the Board at the meeting.
SEAR Status:
Type I I-no further review required"
MR. URRICO-The Planning Board recommendation, based on its limited review, they did not
identify any significant adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated with the current project
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proposal, and that was adopted January 15, 2013. AYES were Mr. Ferone, Schonewolf, Traver,
Krebs, Magowan, and Hunsinger and NOES was Mr. Sipp.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, and welcome.
MR. LAPPER-For the record, Jon Lapper, again, with Tom Center, again, and Mickie Hayes.
MR. JACKOSKI-And, Mr. Lapper, if I just might, I'm not sure that the record picked up, but Mr.
Garrand has recused himself due to a conflict of interest, and he has stated as such.
MR. LAPPER-Okay. Thank you. This project site was the subject of a lengthy review at the
Planning Board when the Hayes built the seven duplex units that exist now to the south of
what's proposed, and at that time we discussed and disclosed that the density for this property
allowed for two more units, and in those hearings the issue with the neighbors was primarily that
that were concerned about the change in the character of the neighborhood for rental units
rather than single family ownership units. We were able to convince the Planning Board and I
think ultimately most of the neighbors that this site was well buffered, that it was set back and
that the Hayes were going to build high end units that would be in keeping with the character of
the neighborhood, and it was approved, but we did hear, in those public comments, that people
talked about the Dixon Road frontage, the fact that Dixon Road is single family homes, and what
we heard was that there was a preference that if something was going to be built on Dixon
Road, it should be single family rather than rental. What's proposed are two single family
homes which would be for sale, rather than the, building a duplex which would be kept by the
Hayes and rented, which is in the back. We felt when we applied that if there was a lot of
neighborhood opposition, there's nothing wrong with them building duplexes. They would have
eight instead of seven, but the proposal is to do two single family houses. That requires the
three lot subdivision, the two lots to develop and sell, and then the remaining lot in the back
which wouldn't change, in terms of the configuration that's already there. One of the comments
in Staff Notes was whether this was self-imposed. Our argument is that because they
purchased this in 2002, before the 500 foot interstate overlay, that it isn't self-imposed because
they bought it before that was the law, but that law doesn't prohibit residential development. It
prohibits subdivision. So, it doesn't say that they can't build a duplex. It just says that they can't
subdivide. So we're seeking relief from that provision with the argument that it's better for the
character of the neighborhood to build as proposed two single family homes rather than one
duplex which doesn't require a variance, and that's really the whole story.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay.
MR. KUHL-When you went through all that (lost words) duplexes, you stated that you were
going to build a duplex up there. Right?
MR. LAPPER-Yes.
MR. KUHL-Okay. So my memory is right.
MR. LAPPER-And do you have a building permit or, no? No, but we did discuss it.
MR. KU H L-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-And during that discussion there was no restrictions put on subdividing the
larger parcel, correct?
Well there's nothing in the Planning Board, there was no restrictions at all on what would
happen up front, but the restriction is under the new Town Code.
MR. JACKOSKI-So that's part of that mutual?
MR. LAPPER-Yes, there's not a restriction in the approval from the Planning Board.
MR. BROWN-Yes, there was a condition put on that Planning Board approval, but it said if it's
going to be subdivided in the future that they have to go through the approval process, which is
what they're doing right now.
MR. JACKOSKI-Any discussion with Board members?
MR. URRICO-1 have a question for Staff. When we look at the criteria and we see difficulty may
be considered self-created, but the property, the adoption of the New York State Highway
Overlay District was after they purchased it. So why would it be considered self-created?
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-I guess I may have left a word out there. Not. Sorry, I didn't proofread my work
very well. I meant, obviously if you read the rest of the comment there, it leads you to believe
that it's probably not self-created. So, yes, there's words missing there.
MR. LAPPER-Thanks for clarifying.
MR. KUHL-Mr. Hayes, what size houses are you going to build on this property?
MR. HAYES-What I would consider moderate, and I think moderate is probably a little smaller
than what moderate was five or six years ago. So it's probably in the neighborhood of 15 to 18,
1900 square foot price range. The market seems to uptick a little bit to be honest with you, but
it's still not great, but Kensington School District is a draw. The locations, a draw, so I'd
probably say that $200,000 to the $240,000 class would be the house that would go on these
lots, and we've had some people that have expressed interest, which kind of brought this up at
this time. They'd showed inclinations to want to maybe do a house on one of these lots, which
in the old days I would put that as money in the bank, but now with the mortgage stuff, nothing's
guaranteed if somebody says they want, it's a harder process to get people to the finish line, to
be honest with you. So housing is still sketchy. (Lost words) as far as the rental, we have a
waiting list. It's a good place to live, Dixon Road. So to be honest with you, I think it'll be very,
the houses would be attractive. They're not, these aren't luxury houses by any stretch, but
they're not starter homes either. They're probably something in between.
MR. KUHL-What are you saying, 15 to 1700 square feet?
MR. HAYES-Yes, maybe 18. One of the people we were talking, they were looking at 18. I'd
say 15 to 18, and that seems to be the sweet spot in today's world, which 2,000 to 2400 was the
sweet spot back in 2005, 2006. Things have definitely changed as far as people's perspective
on housing for sure.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay.
MR. KUHL-Thank you.
MR. CLEMENTS-1 think more people are downsizing.
MR. HAYES-That's what they say, then they say we can't fit our furniture in this room.
MR. JACKOSKI-Are there going to be turnarounds, or are they going to be backing on to Dixon
Road?
MR. HAYES-No, there's a shared drive because of a car because of the collector road, and
they'll make it so there'll always be like a T so they'll be able to pull in and go out that way,
because the road is a relatively busy road, but they're going to be set off the road I'd say
probably the way they're showing the plan it's probably going to be somewhere between 75 to
100 feet. So the driveway is going to be quite lengthy.
MR. LAPPER-But they're not showing turnarounds.
MR. HAYES-No.
MR. LAPPER-So you would add a turnaround.
MR. HAYES-If that's what they wanted that, sure.
MR. LAPPER-Do a three way, three point turn.
MR. JACKOSKI-I just think backing onto Dixon Road is.
MR. HAYES-Yes, that's not a good idea. It has to be under certain times of the day.
MR. JACKOSKI-We do have a public hearing scheduled this evening. I'd like to open the public
hearing. Is there anyone here this evening who'd like to address the Board concerning this
application? Ma'am, if you wouldn't mind. Welcome. Thank you for being so patient. I know
you've been sitting there a long time.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
CAROL LA POINT
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MS. LA POINT-That's okay. Well, no, it really isn't. My name is Carol La Point, and I just have
one question. Why, if we have a 500 foot from the Northway, why are we allowing more in that
area right there? Now we've put how many families out there now that are in health risk and I
just don't see putting any more people out there, when we know already from the surveys and
the studies and everything that there is a risk for the people living there. That's all I want to
know why, and why we're back here again because we do have that 500 foot overlay. Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay, and we can get the applicant to address that.
MS. LA POINT-Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Mr. Garrand, do you want to speak? Did you raise your hand for public
comment?
MR. GARRAND-No.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Mr. Strough.
JOHNSTROUGH
MR. STROUGH-John Strough, Queensbury. First I'd like to convey to you Mrs. Monthie, who
was the landowner most directly affected by this because the proposal was adjacent to her
backyard, she wanted me to convey to you that this is a detrimental impact to her. The current
development is already a negative detrimental impact to her. That the buffer that was promised
between her and the other development never was built that way. Some of the trees that were
put there were poor quality and are dead, and so she's opposed to the project and I told her I
would convey that to you, but again, a little history on the project. I mean, back when, a project
similar to what was proposed got Pos decked, and then this project went through. Loopholes in
the law, what have you. It certainly was the opinion of many that this development was it. There
would be no further development. What they were proposing is, according to the opinion of
many, that was it, but they're adding to it. In a way you could argue segmenting, and it certainly
meets the criteria of segmenting, if it was a SEAR situation, but the situation that's before us
now is for a variance from 179-4-035, the law. The law that was based on the Comprehensive
Land Use Plan adopted in 2007. Here's what the plan says. The Town Board should evaluate
creating a 1,000 foot buffer zone along the Adirondack Northway within which new residential
subdivisions would be prohibited. Residential development in close proximity to the Northway is
generally considered to be unsafe and unhealthy, especially for children, and exposes those
living there to noise, hydrocarbon pollutants, dust, other particles, vibration, and potential
hazardous material situations. That was based on a lot of public comment. That's what the
public wanted, and it was based on a lot of studies that prove the same to be true. So the Town
adopted a law. Here's what the law says. The purpose and we adopted this on January 28,
2011. The Town of Queensbury has evaluated residential development in close proximity to the
Adirondack Northway and concluded that such development may be generally considered to be
unsafe and unhealthy especially for children and may expose those living there to noise,
hydrocarbon pollutants, dust, and other particles. B, designated area, lands located within 500
feet of the bounds of the right of way of the Adirondack Northway shall be considered to be
within this overlay district. The limits of such district are shown on the Town zoning map. This
project's included in that, and, C, regulations within the Interstate Highway Overlay District, there
shall be no new residential subdivision, and it's clear, shall be no new of land. Existing
residences may be enlarged or expanded and existing vacant lots may be developed provided
there is no subdivision of land. That's what the law says. Like I said, and I'll repeat, the law was
created based on studies, based on public input, and it's very clear. There shall be no new
residential subdivision. Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you. This evening is there anyone else that would like to address our
Board? Sir? Welcome.
JIM ROUND
MR. ROUND-Hi. Jim Round, 34 Pershing Road. I thought in the original stipulation of the
property when it was approved for the seven duplexes, that there would be no subdivision, that
was part of the, there would be a no cut zone behind the property, and there would be no
subdivision allowed of this property.
MR. BROWN-Is that a question?
MR. ROUND-Yes, that's a question. I thought that was the wording of how it was.
36
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-That was a question that came up during our Staff review of it, and that's not
what's in the Planning Board resolution. The condition of approval, as I stated before, is, it says
if there's going to be any future development, I don't have it in front of me, future development or
subdivision of this property that that development go through the requirements that are in place
at the time. There's no subdivision requirement on, there was no no subdivision approval on
that approval.
MR. ROUND-So if we allow this subdivision, can they come back in the future and try to
subdivide the additional three or four acres that are behind this property?
MR. BROWN-Well, can they come back and try? They can always come to this Board and ask
for permission. Do they have the density to do that? No, they don't have any density left to
have any more lots. They're not entitled to any more dwelling units on the property.
MR. ROUND-Okay. So if they build on two more homes on this property, or a duplex.
MR. BROWN-They have no more density left.
MR. ROUND-Okay.
MR. BROWN-That's it.
MR. ROUND-If they don't get the subdivision, do they have to look for a variance to build a
duplex on this property based on the setback?
MR. BROWN-They do not. Well, I don't know about the setback where the house is going to be
placed. You mean the 500 foot setback?
MR. ROUND-Yes.
MR. BROWN-No, that's strictly for subdivision only. So I think that's why they're here, and I
don't want to argue their case for them, but they don't need a setback variance to do a duplex.
It's only for subdivision. It's not for development. It's for subdivision. That's the way it's written.
MR. ROUND-So what would be the approval process if they came for, and said we want to put
another duplex on this property?
MR. BROWN-Site Plan Review with the Planning Board.
MR. JACKOSKI-Not this Board.
MR. BROWN-Yes, they wouldn't even have to come to this Board, unless there's a setback
variance from a property line, but it looks like there'd be enough room to put a duplex on without
a setback variance.
MR. KUHL-So you kind of have to ask yourself, is this a good use of the land.
MR. JACKOSKI-Or in keeping with the neighborhood that close to Dixon Road.
MR. ROUND-Well, it wasn't the right use of the property to begin with, in my opinion, my humble
opinion, you know, the way it went through was quite interesting.
MR. JACKOSKI-I wasn't here then.
MR. ROUND-Yes, it was quite interesting, and now we're here back again, looking at this, and,
you know, as someone in the neighborhood, should never have started this way, and basically
we are where we are because of some of the things that went on.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you.
MR. ROUND-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is there anyone else who'd like to address the Board?
MARILYN HERRICK
MRS. HERRICK-I'd like to say one thing to you, please.
MR. JACKOSKI-Of course. Sure, please, we'll try to listen carefully.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MRS. HERRICK-I just feel that I have to say that the character of that neighborhood has
changed because of what they put in there. I mean, there are people that are sitting in their
living rooms and they look out their window and there's a house in their backyard. They are so
close to those homes. It's awful. The property value will go down. The quality of life has been
destroyed. So many negatives. I don't want to see any more houses there.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Ma'am, what was your name again, please?
MRS. HERRICK-My name is Marilyn Herrick.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Marilyn Herrick. So just for the record, Ms. Herrick was concerned
about the character of the neighborhood changing due to the earlier development on the
property. Is that fair to say? Thank you. I'm going to leave the public hearing open. Is there
any written comment?
MR. URRICO-1 didn't see any in here. No.
MR. JACKOSKI-Mr. Lapper, obviously the most important thing for me to understand is you and
your applicant's thoughts about Mr. Strough's comments. Maybe not the first one, the second
one.
MR. LAPPER-The law didn't prohibit development. It prohibited subdivision and it just, it seems
to us, and maybe we haven't said it, but that it would be better for the neighbors to have single
family homes rather than rental apartments or rental duplex. Because the rest of Dixon Road is
all single family, and these two homes would buffer, if you will, the rental apartments that are in
the back. We think that they were done expensively and tastefully. Neighbors picked the color.
It's a successful project, but it seems that this would act to enhance the single family
neighborhood by allowing them to build two houses, rather than to build a duplex, and, you
know, if the intent was to stop development, it probably wasn't approved that way because
perhaps that would be a regulatory taking and that would be expensive to say no houses or no
development within 500 feet of the Northway. So this was probably a way to back off of that and
say no subdivision, and I presume that it meant no subdivisions, no big land development, but
there's density that exists for two units, and the real question, is it more appropriate for the
neighborhood to build single family homes or to build one duplex, and we think it's better for the
neighborhood and obviously for the applicant to build two homes.
MR. JACKOSKI-And I normally don't do this, but for those of you who have spoken or, I mean,
the question for us in our balancing, is putting aside the subdivision restriction, does the
character of the neighborhood, to the neighbors, would the prefer to see the allowed duplex or
would they prefer to see two separate single family homes fronting on Dixon Road?
MRS. LA POINT-I can't speak for any of the other people on the street, I really can't. I have no
objection to the Hayes boys whatsoever, but I think that when it says you cannot put somebody
near the Northway or any interstate, that you should pay attention to that, and I thought that the
Board had when we were here. I really thought that they said that (lost words).
MR. ROUND-I'd prefer to see two single family homes there that are sold. That is not owned by
the Hayes brothers. That is more in character with the neighborhood. I would like to see a
compromise, a single family home, one, and an adequate buffer.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. Certainly there are things to discuss, and I mean, I normally don't go
back to the public and ask, but I think it's important to get your input to try to figure out what
we're going to try to accomplish here. We do have the public hearing still open. The applicant is
at the table. Do you want to address some of the other matters, Jonathan? Would you like to try
to address some of that sentiment?
MR. LAPPER-One comment. Just that the neighbors on Hughes Court are also within 500 feet
of the Northway. So we're not doing anything that doesn't already exist, and in terms of the
buffer issue, I always try to compromise with John Strough, and it's made a lot of projects
successful. I think given the choice of one single family house or two duplexes, you'd probably
build the duplex, but we certainly can offer a lot of buffer.
MR. HAYES-Well, I just wanted to point out to, I'm not sure if the crowd knows this, Tom just
pointed out to me. We still have to go through Site Plan Review for this project for the lots, for
the buffers, the separations, and all that. This is, we still have to go through the scrutiny of the
Planning Board after this. As far as providing a buffer, we'll be providing a buffer up to the
duplexes on both sides and to the houses, too, on the side. (Lost words) will be glad to do that,
and that's whatever the Planning Board deems would be necessary then we'll be glad to do that.
38
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
As far as the health risk issues and stuff, I believe that if an adult buys a house where they buy
it, everybody, they make that decision for themselves where they want to live. That's my belief
in America that you should be able to choose where you live, and if people choose to buy that
house or not, that's their choice, not for somebody else to decide if that's appropriate for them or
not. That's just my personal belief on that, but if you have any other questions.
MR. JACKOSKI-Well, I can say that normally I try to differentiate us from the Planning Board,
not put in stipulations that might be Planning Board oriented, but in this case, because of the
500 feet and what we're trying to accomplish in order to make everyone happy, I think that that
becomes part of what might be some of our motion.
MR. HAYES-I agree.
MR. JACKOSKI-At least in my opinion. I can't speak for the entire Board.
MR. HAYES-If you want to enhance it beyond what the Code, that's fine.
MR. KUHL-Could I just ask that question. Could they build a single family house on that without
anything,just a building permit?
MR. BROWN-No. They'd have to create a separate parcel to do that, which is subdivision.
MR. KUHL-They were approved for an eighth building on there, originally. Correct?
MR. LAPPER-The density allows it.
MR. BROWN-No. The density allows it. The density allows for two more dwelling units,
whether it's one duplex or two single family homes.
MR. URRICO-So just to review; right now what we have is one lot with seven duplexes.
MR. BROWN-With one roughly eight acre parcel.
MR. URRICO-Right.
MR. BROWN-With seven duplexes.
MR. URRICO-And the subdivision will divide this into three lots, duplexes on one lot and then
two single family homes on the other two lots.
MR. BROWN-That's correct.
MR. URRICO-If you don't get this, you still have the option of building the duplex?
MR. HAYES-Or two houses and rent the two houses.
MR. BROWN-I don't think that's a viable option on the property.
MR. URRICO-Would you consider, Mr. Strough mentioned the buffer not being adequate on the
backside. Would you consider taking a look at that and see what you can do as far as buffering
the buffer a little bit?
MR. HAYES-Absolutely, and the buffer concerning the existing duplexes was it was inspected
by Staff and in fact it does exceed that, and if there's any issues, the Staff would like us to rectify
or enhance, we're always, that's no problem as far as we're concerned.
MR. URRICO-Look at the trees there that may be dying.
MR. HAYES-Exactly.
MR. JACKOSKI-Do you know why it hasn't been maintained?
MR. HAYES-Well, to be honest with you, there's probably 30 to 40% more trees than were
approved, the actual, the reality is that the thing, to be honest with you, Bob Podnorski's nursery
on Luzerne Road, which will be in front of you guys and we've actually planted 100 to 150 more
trees and shrubs than were required by us probably because of that reason. So that actually the
situation is if the Town or the Staff determines that something's not healthy or whatever, we'll be
glad to take care of it. I think he's concerned about the buffer.
39
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. JACKOSKI-Well, it's always nice not to have to have the Town enforce it and take it upon
yourself to make sure that it is there.
MR. BROWN-Yes and I guess just for the record, between multi-family and single family
residential, which the multi-family would be the duplex lot that they're proposing, and the two
single family lots on Dixon Road, there are a required buffer per our Zoning Code, between
those three parcels. So they have to maintain, I think, it's a 20 foot buffer. There is not a
required buffer between the single family lots and Mrs. Monthie's lot, but it sounds like they
would offer that during the subdivision review and the Planning Board would probably require
that. So there's some that's required and some that's not.
MR. JACKOSKI-Well, any other questions from Board members before I poll the Board? The
public hearing is still open. Ron, would you like to start?
MR. KUHL-Yes. Thank you. I think it's a good use of the land; I do, to build 15 to 1700 square
foot houses, rather than leave it empty, or rather than put duplexes there. I realize what the law
says, but I'd be in favor. I think it's a good use of the property.
MR. JACKOSKI-Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-1 also would be in favor. I think it's a viable option. I think that single family
houses would, the neighbors would like that better. You've reacted to the, or addressed the
current buffer and the dead tree situation. So I'd be for it.
MR. JACKOSKI-Roy?
MR. URRICO-Yes. I'm going to go along with everybody else. I think this is a viable project. I
would add, I'm still having difficulty with the self-created part because I think the difficulty is self-
created, rather than not, because that overlay district does exist now and the application is now.
So I just wanted to go on record as saying that, but I would still be in favor of it, and I think if you
can review that buffer situation and strengthen it, I think it would go a long way in mitigating the
concerns of the neighborhood.
MR. JACKOSKI-Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-I'd go along with my fellow Board members.
MR. JACKOSKI-I'm totally torn on this. I don't want to violate the big picture, and if we created a
two lot subdivision here for one single family house, we're still violating that requirement. I
would like to see us put an extensive amount of conditions to, not only shield these two future
parcels that are going to be sold from what's out back, but as much as we can the neighbors to
the east. I'm torn. I mean, it certainly seems we have enough votes to move forward.
MR. LAPPER-There's one lot, Steve, to the east. This is Monthie.
MR. JACKOSKI-Yes, but there's also that other lot that just barely touches. I mean, she owns
both lots. That's right. It's my Planning Board desire, that big picture, I just, it's there for a
reason.
MR. LAPPER-I think the Hayes are willing to agree as a condition to put in a serious buffer along
the Monthie lots.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is that something we, as a Board, can communicate, or do we want to leave it
up to our Planning Board members or?
MR. CLEMENTS-1 think that if you want to put some conditions on it, maybe we better know
what they are before we decide we're going to vote on it.
MR. JACKOSKI-You've got an approval already, even if I voted no.
MRS. HUNT-Well, I have a question. Why are these two lots considered a subdivision? Why
couldn't they be two separate lots? Then there would be no problem.
MR. JACKOSKI-It's one large eight acre parcel.
MRS. HUNT-Okay.
MR. HAYES-And if somebody purchased it, they'd have to be able to get clear title, because
they'd actually own that piece of land.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MRS. HUNT-Okay.
MR. JACKOSKI-I struggle with this balance because I know the duplex can go right up front
there, right?
MR. HAYES-Correct.
MR. JACKOSKI-And I'm not thrilled with that duplex sitting there, and that's what's hanging over
our head, and do we protect the character and shield this development from being any closer to
the road with the avoidance of a duplex, and you wouldn't be happy with a two lot subdivision
with one single family house.
MR. HAYES-1 would say honestly, no. One point to bring up is the fact if we did another duplex,
there wouldn't be the screening required between the duplexes. So you're going to, the result
would have the most screening for the Code and for the salability of the houses as well. It's
actually better for both, the more appealing it's going to be to actually the potential purchaser as
well as screening the neighbors.
MR. JACKOSKI-I mean, I've closed the public hearing if somebody wants to make a motion.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 2-2013 HAYES & HAYES, Introduced by Brian
Clements who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
Dixon Road. The applicant proposes a residential two lot subdivision for construction of single
family dwellings. Relief required: The parcel would require area variances as follows: The
relief requested from the required 500 foot setback of the IHOD Interstate Highway Overlay
District. The entire project site is within this Overlay District. In making the determination, the
Board shall consider, One, whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of
the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this
variance. Minor impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated. Number Two, whether the
benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method feasible for the applicant to
pursue other than an area variance. Feasible alternatives for subdivision are limited. Number
Three, whether the area variance is substantial. The request is not substantial. Number Four,
whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions of the neighborhood or district. Minimal impacts may be anticipated.
Number Five, whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. I feel that the difficulty was not
self-created, and I move for approval. Including at least a Type B Buffer to the east. Also, three
point turn capability on each individual lot.
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
MR. JACKOSKI-I do have a motion without any conditions. Is there a second?
MRS. HUNT-Second.
MR. JACKOSKI-Is there any discussion?
MR. KUHL-I thought we were going to put some conditions on the buffer?
MR. JACKOSKI-What would we like to say, or does the applicant have any proposed language?
MR. HAYES-Proposed buffer tree buffer, if you'd like to say that you'd like to see, exceed what
the Code is.
MR. JACKOSKI-I don't believe there's any Code, is there?
MR. BROWN-There's definitely a Code requirement between, again, the proposed two single
family lots and the duplex multi-family development. There's no requirement between, on the
east side. So you could, I guess if you're looking for language you could say, at a minimum, a
Type B buffer to the east, and then if the Planning Board wants to be more restrictive, they can
certainly exceed that if they want to.
MR. JACKOSKI-So can we amend the motion to say including at least a Type B buffer on the
east line and the west line?
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. BROWN-The west line I guess they have to anyway because that's a different use parcel.
It's going to be a U shaped buffer around the.
MR. HAYES-How wide is Type B, Craig?
MR. LAPPER-Twenty feet.
MR. BROWN-Twenty.
MR. JACKOSKI-And while they're looking up the current side setback, is anyone concerned
about the turnarounds? Do we want to make that a condition of approval that they have to
arrange for being able to drive out onto Dixon Road?
MR. LAPPER-Three point turn.
MR. JACKOSKI-I think because we're doing a subdivision and we are creating more driveways
on, more vehicle access onto, could we have an amendment to the motion to include three point
turn capability on each individual lot, as a condition of approval? Is there any further
discussion?
MR. CLEMENTS-You have a condition now?
MR. JACKOSKI-The condition is that they have a three point turnaround on each lot and that
they do at least a Type B buffer on the east line, if it meets what Mr. Center's looking up.
MR. CENTER-There's enough room to do the turnaround.
MR. JACKOSKI-Okay. We have a motion that has been amended.
MR. CLEMENTS-I'll agree to the motion as amended.
MR. JACKOSKI-Thank you, Brian. Would you call the vote, please.
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mr. Kuhl, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements
NOES: Mr. Jackoski
ABSENT: Mr. Garrand
MR. JACKOSKI-Sorry.
MR. LAPPER-Thank you.
MR. JACKOSKI-You know I hate voting no. Okay. Thank you, folks.
MR. HAYES-Thank you.
MR. JAC KOSKI-Appreciate it.
AREA VARIANCE NO. 03-2013 SEQRA TYPE II SAM MARANVILLE OWNER(S) SAM
MARANVILLE ZONING MDR LOCATION 679 CORINTH ROAD APPLICANT HAS
CONSTRUCTED A 296 SQ. FT. RESIDENTIAL ADDITION. RELIEF REQUESTED FROM
SIDE YARD SETBACK REQUIREMENTS OF THE MDR ZONING DISTRICT. CROSS REF BP
2012-556 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING N/A LOT SIZE 1 ACRE TAX MAP NO. 315.6-2-13
SECTION 179-4-030
SAM MARANVILLE, PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Area Variance No. 03-2013, Sam Maranville, Meeting Date: January 15, 2013
"Project Location: 679 Corinth Road Description of Proposed Project: Applicant has
constructed a 295 sq. ft. residential addition.
Relief Required:
Applicant seeks 3.33 ft. of relief from the 25 ft. minimum side yard setback requirement of the
MDR zoning district.
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination, the Board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this Area Variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for
the applicant to pursue, other than an Area Variance. Feasible alternatives appear to be
limited given that the addition has been constructed; however, there appears to be ample
area on the site for compliant construction.
3. Whether the requested Area Variance is substantial. 3.33 ft. of relief from the 25 ft.
requirement or 13% relief may be considered minor to moderate relative to the code
requirements.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minimal impacts to the physical or
environmental conditions of the neighborhood are anticipated.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-
created.
Parcel History (construction/site plan/variance,
BP 2012-556 295 sf. residential addition -- Pending
Staff comments:
The constructed addition has been added to the home in a logical and, what would appear to be,
the easiest location.
Applicant is seeking a waiver from the survey map requirement. An engineer stamped drawing
was submitted.
SEAR Status:
Type I I-no further review required"
MR. JACKOSKI-Hello.
MR. MARANVILLE-Hi.
MR. JACKOSKI-We'll try to be easy on you.
MR. MARANVILLE-Thank you very much. I'm nervous as hell.
MR. JACKOSKI-Not to worry. We won't bite, and we do know this is an after the fact matter.
MR. MARANVILLE-Excellent.
MR. JACKOSKI-So do you want to add anything, or do you want us to just ask questions?
MR. MARANVILLE-I'm better at answering questions than making statements.
MR. JACKOSKI-That usually is the case when you're not used to doing this. So do any of the
Board members have any questions at this time for the applicant?
MR. GARRAN D-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Mr. Garrand.
MR. GARRAND-How did you get caught?
MR. MARANVILLE-Actually, Mr. Hatin showed up when I was at work and my wife answered the
door. They said he just drove by and saw it. He asked me, he said why didn't you get, you
know, stamped or anything.
43
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
MR. GARRAND-You didn't get a building permit?
MR. MARANVILLE-No, sir.
MR. GARRAND-Just keep in mind, you can't build anything in this Town without a permit.
MR. MARANVILLE-Yes. I'm going to keep that in mind, because now this whole process has
been drawn out and my wife's about ready to stab me. I'm currently dwelling in a 730 foot
square foot home now, with three children and a wife. So, that's five people in a home that size.
You kind of understand why I really need that, and there was, I never actually extended anything
over 10 foot, which, when I made a phone call in December somebody said if you're not going
over 10 foot. I should have known better. I should have actually probably discussed it with my
brother, and, anyway, it was okay as long as there was an existing wall. So the actual old
foundation of the structure that was there is still there. It's actually part of the load bearing
portion of the new.
MR. JACKOSKI-Things happen. Any questions for the applicant, anybody here? We do have a
public hearing tonight. There is no one here in the audience. I'll open the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. JACKOSKI-Is there any written comment?
MR. URRICO-No.
MR. JACKOSKI-I'll poll the Board real quick. Brian?
MR. CLEMENTS-I'd be in favor.
MR. JACKOSKI-Ron?
MR. KU H L-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Rick?
MR. GARRAN D-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Joyce?
MRS. HUNT-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Roy?
MR. URRICO-Yes.
MR. JACKOSKI-Can I have a motion. I'll close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. URRICO-Did you get a survey for this. It says in here stamped drawing was submitted.
MR. MARANVILLE-The reason I asked for the survey to be waived was that there's a pre-
existing structure. If you look at that, it's actually an old pump house that was there when it was
originally built. So obviously it wasn't over the line.
MR. JACKOSKI-Could I get a motion?
MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO. 3-2013 SAM MARANVILLE, Introduced by
Richard Garrand who moved for its adoption, seconded by Joyce Hunt:
679 Corinth Road. Applicant has constructed a 295 square foot residential addition. Relief
requested from side yard setback requirement for the MDR zone. Relief is 3.33 feet. Will this
have an adverse effect on the neighborhood or effect on nearby properties? No. Can benefits
be achieved by other means feasible to the applicant? He could re-locate this, but that's not a
real practical thing to do at this point. Is this request substantial? This is the most minimal
request we've had in here in months. Is this difficulty self-created? It may be deemed self-
created, but in the grand scheme of things, this is the most minor variance we've been asked for
in ages. I move we approve Area Variance No. 3-2013.
44
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 01/16/2013)
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
MR. JACKOSKI-We're sorry you had to wait so long, but it's a process.
MR. MARANVILLE-It's my own damn fault. Don't worry about it.
MR. JACKOSKI-Any additional issues to be brought before the Board? I do make a note that
we are down a member and we are down some alternates. I know they're looking, and I have
received some names. So thank you. Can I have a motion to adjourn?
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING OF
JANUARY 17, 2013, Introduced by Joyce Hunt who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Richard Garrand:
Duly adopted this 16th day of January, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico, Mr. Clements, Mr. Kuhl, Mr. Garrand, Mrs. Hunt, Mr. Jackoski
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Steven Jackoski, Chairman
45