1982-11-04 SP 255
Special Meeting November 4, 1982
Members present: Frances Walter, Supervisor
Daniel Olson, Councilman
Charles Eisenhart, Councilman
Daniel Morrell, Councilman
Betty Monahan, Councilman I
Town Counsel, Joseph Brennan, was absent.
4 f Media: WBZA, WWSC, Post Star,
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,.. League of Women Voters, several Queensbury officials.
Pledge of allegiance was led by Town Clerk, Donald A. Chase.
Mrs. Walter - indicated that the purpose of the meeting this evening
ii-a public hearing on the 1983 budget. She described the procedure
that was followed up to this meeting. Teld how the Board conducted
workshops and then adopted a preliminary budget on October 26.
A public hearing was set for this evening at that meeting. Budget
figures have been available to the public for about a five week
period of time.
This year we are looking to raise about $200,000 more in tax revenues
from the taxpayers. The highest increases have been in the area
of the highway department. This was caused by a very severe winter
this past year. 0ur inventory of roads has increased. We have two
new water districts that will appear on the tax bills this year,
or in January next year. We are looking at a decrease in the fire
protection rate because we are applying a surplus from the end of
the year, also because of the increased assessed value in the town
and the fire contract rates remain the same.
? ; One of the most controversial parts of the budget as of this date
has beenthe fact that the Budget Officer recommended to the Board
in the tentative budget on the 28th day of September that a Cont-
ractual agreement ba de:.wish thietbothty atnW;rrairf- 4grepolice
coverage for the town. That would be a $250,000 contractual agreement.
We have added several- other expenses to the preliminary budget
of which the figures were availabt a later date than the 28th
of September such as the bill for retirement for this yaar. Because
there has been a great deal of questions that I would expand on
this area of 3120 code. The Town of Queensbury currently has coverage
from three different police agencies, the state police, the Warren
County sheriffs department and the Queensbury police. Next year
we anticipate the same amount of coverage from the State Police
in the town, so let us not talk about that, it might cloud the issue.
We, by -law, receive the services of the Warren County Sheriffs Dept.
because they do provide coverage to all the towns within the county.
Next year we would be receiving the same amount of coverage that
they are currently providing Queensbury with right now. Let us not
talk about that* because that would cloud the issue. The third coverage
that we are currently receiving this -year is our own Queensbury
Police department'. In providing in the budget, a contractual item
for police under the Warren County Sheriff's department, we are
looking at the same amount of coverage provided by the Queensbury
Police department under contract with the Warren County Sheriff' s
department. I will repeat that, it is the same amonatotf coverage.
we will be receiving from the State police, from the Warren County
Sherif£t a department and under contract the same amount .o-f� coverage
that we are currently receiving -from the Queensbury Malice -department.
I am trying to make that very clear to you because some' mis(.tatements
have been made that we would have half the police coverage. That
is totally untrue. I do not think that any board member here would
want to have less protection for the Town of Queensbury than is
currently provided. Any contractual agreement with the Warren County
Sheriff' s department would be for patrols on the road.
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In order to provide for those patrols on the road, when I met
with the Sheriff, he indicated that it was not at all possible
with the 30 men that he currently had on his payroll. I asked
him if he would let me know what additional coverage that he
could provide the samd amount of coverage that we are currently
receiving now. He took a few days, it looks like about eight.
He indicated he wanted to look at what he would need for fringes,
and whatever other expenses that he would need to pay under a
eDntractual agreement that would not increase the budget of my
department so that other taxpayers in the county would have to
pick.-,up that expense. Several weeks later he came back and said
I will need nine. With nine additional men on the payroll at
the Sheriff's department we can provide a total amount of cars
in ,the Town of Queensbury, four to five on two shifts and three
to four on the late shift which is from 12 to 8. Ladies and
gentlemen that is currently the coverage that you now have.
gad.6tesencircumstances would we ever suggest, or would I, as
Budget Officer have ever suggested to you that you would have
less police protection in the Town of Queensbury. Under the
advisement of the Sheriff as to how much that would cost for
nine men, with their fringes, the shift differential, with
holiday, overtime, for uniforms, for two cars, gas for those
cars, car repair, the amount that I was quoted was $250,000
which was included in the budget to the Board. In the workshops
the Board was advised of this , it was their decision under the
preliminary budget, which we are considering this evening to
go with. that $250,000 figure. One of the,-major increases that
the town is looking at is in the area of fringes for employees
not only under that code, but I mean on a personal services town
wide where we are looking at absolutely unreal increases in
hospitalization benefits for town employees which are basically
under union contract.
There are several people who have asked foe the privilege of the
floor.
I would ask that you supply your name and address for the record.
Gordon Blank We of the Crandall library board appreciate what
the town has done for Crandall library. It is an inve-,stment
in the future of the people of the town of Queensbury and people
of this area. The original request was for $60,000. The Budget
officer recommendation was for $58,500, it was reduced in the
preliminary budget to $55,009. We ask you to restore the requested
funds.
Des Sullivan - Crandall has the designation as the central reference
library for four counties. For that, it receives under a state formula,
an additional $125,000 per year. This year the library is going on
a required plan of service review. During the course of that review
the question will arise whether Crandall will continue to be
designated as the sole central reference library. As a trustee of
the library, I think the designation should stay here. If Queensbury
restores the amount Dr. Blank indicated, we hope that you would
consider that, the library would then be receiving the per capita
support, and there is a good possibility the designation would
stay here.
Christine McDonald - In an effort to reduce cost, the library
has done some things in this area such as in energy savings.
We have reduced our kilowat usage since 1975 by 30%. We decreased
our gas usage by 20%. We will try to keep our utility bills at
a level which they are right nosy. Telephone and salaries have
also been reduced.
Tupper Limbert - Thank you for your support, we depend on it.
We have a-ttotal bi get for 1983 of $460,000. We have increased
, ad many of our services. We started outreach services, it is very
expensive, there is a demand for it.
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Mr. Eisenhart - The amount provided in the preliminary budget is
up 8% over last year.
Mr. Buttino - Thanked the Town of Queensbury for its continued
support of the Opera Festival which is held in the Queensbury
School. Last year we had record box office attendance as well
as revenues. -We recently received- national recognition when we
were awarded a National Endowment for the Arts Challenge grant.
It will amount to $100,000 and `the funds will be used to establish
a permanent endowment for the Lake George Opera Festival. It is
a challenge grant and we are required to raise three private dollars
L,,, for every one federal dollar that we receive through that grant
program. We are asking the Town of Queensbury to continue your
support in the hopes that we might use your contribution to the
�,. Opera Festival- as part of the matching funds toward this grant.
We add a tremendous' income to this areas economy. -We draw people
from outside of this area. Our budget is now reaching $630,000.
We have added to the areas economy over $940,000 worth of income.
Thank you so much for your time.
Mrs. -Walter - We also have had a request from the Hyde museum.
No one spokd on' behalf of the Hyde Museum.
Mr. Hoenck - I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the
Board. The issue is directed to the more controversial part of
your budget. This is the preliminary proposal Ito eliminate or
abolish the police -department. I make reference to the editorial
today in the newspaper which spell out the concern that we as a
group that met on Monday, have. In addition I would like to say
that we are all for -cost efficiency in local government as well
as state and federal. I can not reconcile the numbers that you
gave us tonight. You said that the potential contract with the
Sheriff' s department will be $250,000, the number of Queensbury
Police that would. be transferred would go from eight to nine.
Does this affect the contract number that you stated tonight.
Secondly. I can not -believe that-in-the past the police department
has been duplicating 'sernices that .good government efftitenvy
should have prevented from happening. I doubt very much that
the Sheriff's department`, State police, and the local department
here in Glens Falls were guilty of uAcessary duplication which
was implied tonight. The Queensbury police department has been
recognized as a °very efficient force. I can not believe that
reducing the number from fifteen including the chief, to nine
now, will give us the -,dame service that we "haveenjoyed these
past years. We feel that the -Queensbury police department has
been extremely efficient, and being local, being very personalized
to the needs of the community here. We request that you reconsider
your plan,going to a contractual °committment to the Sheriff' s
department of Warren County.
Mrs. Walter - You--had a couple of questions?
Mr. Hoenck You went from eight to nine.
Mrs. Walter — I a4d for a particular coverage of equal to what
== we are currently receiving with our foutteen member department,
which is now twelve. I was told afyer a' review by the Sheriff,
what he could handle. He said nine.- This was at the $250,000 cost.
I should make this point. This is a very-new cuncept: It was not
allowed-before 1981, incase anyone has the question as to why
have you waited up to now to do this? Smaller departmentsacross
the state will be a part of a contractual agreements with- larger
agencies. There-is other duplications.
Mr. Hoenck - There is no question about it. I-totally agree
with that. I have studied the preliminary budget- the last two days.
The only area that is in for 4 bstantial cut is the Police Dept,
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All other departments seem to enjoy a normal rate increase.
When we look -at the total savings, last years budget on the
police department was suppose to be $440,000. The contract
with the sheriff asksfor $250,000 and no doubt the expenses
will go up to some extent. The budget presented by the Chief
calls for $515,000 for 1983. I am sure that this figure can
also be reduced to a certain extent. We are talking probably
about a real saving to the township in the:,area ;of $200,000
plus. The cost to the taxpayer would cost about 12 to 14.00
a year to keep 'the police department intact as it is. I do
not believe there are very many citizens in this township
that would not be willing to pay this additional cost if it
were necessary to keep the police department. I believe I
speak with a lot of support that the proposal came all too
sudden and is too essential a service that it should be .decided
now. I agree we should study and make any move possible to
reduce cost, but this flew in as a total surprise to most
people in Queensbury. This is a very growing community. A
good healthy police department is an essential ingredient
in this continued growth. I am all for cutting expenses, but
I am also supporting the continued growth of Queensbury and
I do not believe that Queensbury is going to grow with the
abolition of the'Police department. Now, take our big city
Glens Falls
Mrs. Walter - I do .not want to discuss the City of Glens Falls
because there is no comparison.
Mr. Hoenck - They will maintain their_police force and they
no doubt appreciate their police force.
Mrs. Walter - They do not get the coverage _of the Warren County
Sheriff' s- department.
Mr. Hoenck - You will never convince me that the numbers that
you gave us tonight, if there was any duplication, I believe
there was not any, because all three agencies are very cost
conscious, that we will have the same police protection with
the abolition of our police department. It just can not be that
way.
Mrs. Walter I thank you for your opinion.
Walter Donovan - I have been a resident of Queensbury for the
past twelve years and I have 'fouad the Queensbury police department
to be very efficient. I am in a position now where I rely on
the police department for instant and spontaneous action. I have
never found them at fault. We are talking about expenses and the
van that spoke before me said that this town is growing, and will
grow bigger. Eventually Queensbury may become a City and we may
even get our own post office. I ,am glad that this is brought to a
head and I am glad that the people who sit in this room tonight
are concerned about it. Crime is coming. I deal with it every day
here. This is all a part of the system that we as taxpayers of
this community would like to have put to rest. If you want to
set a contract you might as well go out and hire the Burns
1 detective agency or Pinkerton to do the patrol in this area.
You are not going to get it from the Sheriff's department. They
have too much of an area to patrol. When we have a Chief of Police
1 and a Supervisor in a town like this which are capable along with
your illustrious board, I am sure that you can control this.
If you allow this department to be dismantled, I believe that this
will be a disservice to everybody who is liVing in this community.
I need the protection, the elderly need the protection and they
deserve it. If there is a referendum on it, then it should be put
to a vote.
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Let the people here decide. I do not think that you should say,
that because of a budget, we are going to knock it out. If the
point comes up as to where is- the-waste, then maybe something
else is wrong here. Maybe the Board should be abolished.
Mrs. Walter - If you care to make any constructive remarks,
we will listen.
Mr. Donovan - I think we
are entitled to say things here.
If there is anything I have said that is wrong, then I will
apologize to the Board. !The Police department has been growing
since I came here 8nd I
think- that -they are doing-a fabulous
job. As long as they are under our control here, they will
wntinue to do so. If you ship the responsibility to somebody
else, that could care probably less; then we are going to be
responsible for it.
Gene htrphy - You stated other communities will be going to this.
They have and they found'' out that it is illegal. You said you
did not want to talk about Glens Falls. Going over your preliminary
budget, Glens Falls share of the landfill went down this year
when ours went up and I would like to know,why?
Mrs. Walter - This is a ±contract which was signed five years
ago based on population.', This board had nothing to do with it.
There is a formula devised, and because Queensbury has grown
so much, that now Glens Falls instead of paying 60%, pay 52%.
Mr. Murphy - In the preliminary budget, you are talking $250,000
but actually it is., $311,000 if I read it correctly.
Mrs. Walter. - Yes- It is. That wa-s in the tentative budget, and
when the :Bca rd met in the preliminary they have-come up with
$311,000.
Mr. Murphy - Is the $3110000 correct?
Mrs. Walter - I suggested that we put- $250,000 in for police
proetection, the board reviewed that, we found we had a retirement
bill to pay for this year, next year, *for $41,900, which is what
it costs for retirement for this year, that is what-really what
has run it ups other than that we are going to retain our school
crossing guards, -social tecurity. on vacation pay that will be
owed the officerb and that is the difference in the figure.
Because the figure the Board has put in the preliminary budget
is $31jW00, that is the figure that we will consider here this
eveking. "r. understand that hospitalization is going up. Under the
new contract I hear that the employees are going to have to pay f
some of that themselves. -
Mrs. Walter - We are still with the fact finder and I am sorry
I am not at liberty to say.
Mary Vamft ss When you made your opening- statement, you gave
the figure- $250,0003 leaving us to believe that it was going to
be the. $250,000. e
Mrs. Walter - No, that is the contractual figure for the Sheriff' s
department.
Mrs.- VanNess - Why was not the other figure brought up for the
public- to know before we started in-on this?
Mrs. Walter - The budgets have been in the Town Clerk's office,
for the public to .,peruse with the $250,000 figure until the
26th of October. At that time the Board met in a public
meeting,,
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made some change in all areas of the budget. and then adopted
a preliminary budget for $311,000. They have been in the Town
Clerk's office since the 26th of October. , Mr. Chase, how many
people have picked up budgets?
Mr . Chase - Two.
Mrs. , VanNess - I have seen a copy ,of that budget. All I am saying
is, on your opening statement, you did not mention the $311,000
Mrs. Walter - I am sorry that, I. have mislead you..
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Mrs. VanNess - Your _own statement just a _little while ago, the
l Queensbury is growing. If we are growing, why do we abolish our
police force?
Mrs. Walter - We will be getting the same amount of service,
Mrs. VanNess - _You'Are trying to fool us.
Mrs. Walter - I am not trying .to fool you Mrs. VanNess.
Mrs. VanNess - I believe that we have a police force of fifteen
including the Chief. If you can sa_y that they .can give us the same
coverage and protection that we are accustomed to, and we have
learned to rely on, with nine men, no way Mrs. Walter, I can not
see it. If you believe this then you are foeling yourself and you
are trying to fool us.
Mr. Fischer - You asked the Fire Study committee to review the
budget of Mr. Bodepweiser. The man has never -got the 61pay raise,,
which we in the fire service thought it was about time the man
should get because he did not get one last year and all the town
employees got one.
Mrs. Walter - Could I1cotxt-4r you right there? The councilmen did
not take a raise last year.
Mr. , Olson - The Non-union appointed people did not get a raise
either.
Mrs. Walter - None of the employees in the town have received a
raise.
Mr. Fischer - We think. Bill should get a _$700 increase because of
the. efforts the man does, put in a job. He works well beyond the 30
hours that- ,he has down for. He is on call for 24 hours a day. He
uses his own vehicle to get there. , He is down here for. $11,400
out of that $2500 is for secretarial fees tla t comes doom to
$9,034 dollars, the dogcatcher has a better job than he does and
makes a dollar more.
John Mead - Under the present set up, you have control of the
police department, the Chief and the number of the people that
he controls. We are talkip+bout a $200,000 difference in what
the Sheriff has and what the Chief has. What happens next year
when the Sheriff comes to you and says that we can not. do this for
$250,000 or 4300,000 next year, we need three more people, our budget
next year should bg $350,000 or $400,000, which you have no control
over. Then you sayj�maybe we better go back to the other system and
hire our own police department back again. Under the present system
you can control the Chief and the number of people you have working
for us.
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Don Clements - Last Tuesday, I presented the Board with some
points that had hot been spoken of here tonight. Do you want
to make a statement on some of the points that I brought up?
Mrs. Walter -How about you asking about the points that you
would like to have made? [
Mr. Clements.- This Olan to consolidate is not a local P tan
It#As taken place throughout the country and the state of New
York. There is a California plan which is suppose to be inaugurated
this year. The elected-Sheriff -will be eliminated or have no
authority and Mr.jRobertson of the Warren County board has stated
that the Sheriff under this system of contract will have no - :
`— responsibility except to take care of the jail and some civil
mattere. (Went on to explain the California plan. ) This plan
is covered under Federal funding and if Federal funding ends the
municipality must contract using their own funds. The new
Sheriff indicated that he would conduct a search of all Federal
and State grants, If he finds more of them,and they last for
three years, then the grants run out, then the people that have
taken over these. jobs-will have to fund it some other way through
local taxes. The funding for all consolidation of police power
within the United States is funded to the states by an arm of
the justice department. We have many instances where we have used
Federal funding in Warren County and the Town of Queensbury.
Just recently we had two police cars and two officers that were
given funds. That was only for a three year period and I do not
know how it is being handled now. Apparently it is added to the
ludget.; Federal=aid is always followed byFederal control. This
is a Supreme Court- ruling, When you start thinking of consolidating
your police departments, right now they 'are saying to: contract
with Warren County Sheriff but I do not.believe tht is really the
ultimate of what they are after. In the next year if- the contract
did not prove beneficial to Queensbury, . there- is no reason that
we could not go to the all County wide police. If we go to the
County Police, I am sure we will get federal funding again and
x before. long we--mill have a federal police force and I believe
it is not only concerned with Queensbury because if you look across
the counties in New York State and across the country the same
thing is happening.
Mr. Goldsmith - Mrs. Walter, you said that you were not trying t• E
fool us. .Are you trying to convince us?--If-.you are, what guarantee
do' you want to make? Do you want to guarantee anything? I
Mrs. Walter - I would like to guarantee you the same amount of
police service or more for the next year.
Mr. Goldsmith - Will you resign ; if you do not coarse through with
a guarantee? Is is your job against your word here? I want a
guarantee. I would love to see you resign, Mrs. Walter.
`.� Mrs. Walter- I do not know what I would do to the evening without
these-meetings.
Jim Penman - I was -a police officer myself for several years.
We have a personalized police department. Some are here this
evening. . Every officer is known by everyone in this room. That is
important. We should have a control over our police department.
What are our high taxes for if we do nest have any control? We will
have no control with the Sheriff's department. I do not believe in
consolidation. I am annoyed that we are. even discussing this
sLtuation. I am disappointed in the Board. We have the money and
if we do not have it we better get it. Things are not good today.
We need-better protection. We heed personalized protection.
A police-department does not cost money. It pays. Just think
about that.
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Mr. Hoenck - I have to . support the lady that came up- here and
said that. in your initial introductory_ statement, you implied
intentionally, otherwise, I would not know, the contract cost
would be $250,000.
Mrs. Walter - the contract cost is $250,000
Mr. Hoenck - Yes, but you -implie& in your- statement, the
layman: would belive that would be the only cost.
Mrs. Walter - If the layman had picked up the budget, he would
see that. I did not imply anything other- than what you are
making it sound like. I am sorry.- I th ink. I apoligized to the
patrolman' s mother.
Mr. _Hoenck_ - It- would have been appropriate LF this had been
part of your introduction. Even. in the newspaper editorial,
there was no mention of :that. I am sure you are going. to have
the total facts come before the public. Actually if• this number
was correct, $311,000 and the budget approved, as requested by
the Chief, we will have a total increase, >keeping the police
department,
Mrs. Walter —Which budget of the Chief' s ?
-- Mr. Hoenck - $515,000, 1, understand. As quoted in the newspaper.
That is- the only number that is available to us. If that were a
true number, we would have. a total cost,- in addition to the contract
price, and the other cost of $204,000. That would come to about
$1.10 per thousand dollars of assessment- value for a $25,000 home,
that. would mean about- $27.00 net increase in cost for keeping the
police- department. I think t .e citizens of this town should know
that, in order to properly respon# to the-request to abolish the
police. department. ! �
Mrs.. Monahan - You-do realize that. these extra costs- are close-
out costs that will not appear in. the budget again.
Mr.. Garrant - In the Post Star of September 3rd,. you had a person
in the town that got a 21.3% raise. Fiore, I Selieve it was.
The following week there was a 25% raise
Mrs. Walter - There has been- no raises this year, ,other that
elected officials which were granted last January 1st.
Mr. Garrant - But did they get a 25% raise?
Mrs. Walter - I do not know what you are booing about. We have
not given any raises in this town.
Mr. Garrant - How come it was in. the Post Star? .
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Mrs. Walter - I want everyone of you to really listen. to what
is being said here tonight, because I guarantee you, you will
not read about it in the Post Star tomorrow. They write what they -
want to write. That is my point of view.
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Mr. Garrant - Are you denying that anyone got a 25% increase in
wages?
Mrs. Walter Yes I am.
Mr. Garrant - Then the Post Star was in error?
Mrs. Monahan - You were talking about the salary raise that was
giuen to.the Supervisor at the beginning of 1982. That raise was
given in recogniton that this was no longer a part time job.
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Mr. Garrant - I was not referring to that at all. I think it was
the Veteran's Administrator.
Mrs. Monahan - That was the County.
Mr. Garrant - The Town of Queensbury didtnot raise that?
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Mrs. Walter - I am the representative on the County Board and
j there are four other gentlemen on the County Board but not these
people.
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Mr. Garrant - Regardless of whether
g you are or.not, a 25% increase
is a little bit more that the rest of us are going to get.
Mr. Lavatore - On October 12, 1982 a report was issued to the
Town of Queensbury in respect to possible--ground water contamination
at the landfill. Since recommendations were listed in that report,
my question, is are there any plans to follow these recommendations?
Is there money allocated to follow through with any of these plans?
Mrs. Walter - The Town of.Queensbury will be -looking to put
together a new application for the landfill. In order to get that
we will. probable have to put_ some of those -recommendations in
effect. Secondly there is money available for that.
Mr. Lavatore . - Any amount?
Mrs. Walter - No,because we do not know what we will have to do
at this time. The engineer is working on it.
Mr. Lavatore - I am concerned that we do these things next year
rather than two years from now. One other thing, I noticed in
personal services, it was from $90,000 to $119,000, is that
$29,000 increase just for what you stated earlier, hospitalization,
f etc. ? I
Mrs. Walter - No, that is just for wages. Before, we had money f
in contractual for part time help,=now that figure is put in
Personal Services which makes it look inflated.
Mr. Olson - From time to time we have- to,-bring people from other I
departments, that was paid before from contractual basis. We
decided this year that it should go in on the payroll side.
Mr. Lavatore_ , What did the. survey cost that- Mr. Scudder did?
Mrs. Walter - That will be in our audit on the first Tuesday of
the month. I think it is about 12 or $1400. I
Mrs. Monahan - HospitalizAtion figure is a separate figure on
all branches of government. It is under Employ-vebenefits on a
9060 code, so you can look at that and see how much it is jumping
in each department.
Mr. Dearlove - At the present time I am president of a development
�. that houses fifty families. I spent all afternoon making contacts f
with many of the residents. Many are quite disturbed, based on
the reading of the editorial- in the Post Star that there is to be
a cutback.
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Mrs. Walter - There will be no cutback.
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Mr. Dearlove - I am only reporting --
Mrs. Walter - We can not help what the Post Star reports. Just
for the benefit for .those -people that were here,, I will. have to
tell you that the editorial was written without anyone ever contacting
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me individually as to say, what are you doing? It is based on
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whatever information that they gathered up, - specifically
directed at myself and the Town- Board-without ever having an
interview, phoning or talking us to get the facts first hand.
Mr. Dearlove - I feel that I was negligent as a resident of
Queensbury for not getting a copy of the current budget that
had been prepared, which I understand now has $311,000
assigned for a contract with the County.-
Mr. Eisenhart - No, $250,000. There are other items that we
have to pay that are incurred this year that we have to pay
next year. That is why we have this jump,
Mr. Dearlove - N%t this fiscal year, but . . .
Dr. Eisenhart We have to pay them in next year's budget.
Mr. Dearlove - 1983
Dr. Eisenhart - For 1982 We are also keeping our crossing
guards, school crossing guards.
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Mr. ' Dearlove - The part that I am. quite confused, and it is
because I am not acquainted with. this public meeting -tonight,
to know whether or not the response and the feeling that has
been expressed of. those that have commented, and perhaps the
reaction of those in the audience that they would much p wfer
paying an increase in their taxes on their assessed evaluation
and,- have the.personel contact of the Polic e. force in which you
people have close supervision. Rather than to contract with
a County group. The reagtion� you have heard it., does it make
any difference any &y if- they have reactedo it sounds to me
that they-are not happy witch the kind of arrangement that is
-being planned. So, why are we here, could you answer that?
Supervisor Walter - I am sure you are here to express your
views.
Mr. Dearlove- Will there be anything that will come from it
because there is a feeling that people would pm fer to have
a Police Force that are personallr',•acquained with the.area
and number wise and efficiency, ** has been mentioned here,
in which you people have direct-`responsibility and how much
responsibility will you have when it is turned over to the
Warren County Sheriff's Dept? You have heard the reaction
of the audience, is this going to make any difference in
j the formulation of-your budget, by being here and expressing
what you have• heard tonight by the different people, I do
r
not know.
Supervisor Walter - That is the purpose of the public hearing,
to hear public comment.
t
Mr. Dearlove - Are you saying it might make a difference?
}
Supervisor'Wilter - I am the one that suggested this idea,
so I guess I am going-. to stick with it, I still think it is
the-be-st way for the Town to go and the other people on the
Board either share that and I am sure we will have some time
to discuss it to see what the consensus is.
3
Mr. Dearlove - At least from your point of view it doesn't
make any difference-.
a
. Supervisor Wa1ter - I have looked, iji work every day. at my job
and I know what has gone onw-as far as- the monies in the Town
and this is a suggestion of mineas I indicated before that
it is a fairly new concept ,gince 1981, you lave been allowed
265
1 "
to contract with an agency for additional services, an agency
that already providing services. Before that you could not
do that in New York State. I think a lot of the smaller k
Departments will probably be going and perhaps in this case ?
we will be the front runner. t
Mr. Dearlove - Of course I am not critizing that fact that
you are working full time, I think that is fine, because we
are a growing community and we have increased it, someone made
reference to the amount we are paying for the landfill, why, j
j I because the increase population and expansion, well we need increased i
protection then. I do not know how unfess you had something . . . 4
I
Supervisor Witter - Please believe me, we are not going to
decrease the protection. i
i
Mr. Dearlove I would like to know how you can be sure that
we are going to.have the some amount and perhaps even more
with the expanding community of Queensbury and certainly it !
is expanding. `Thank you.
i
Mrs. Monahan- Can I comment on something Mr.. Dearlove said,
You want to know if we are going to pay attention ,to what the t
people are saying here tonight, also we are paying attention
j to what we have heard out .around -the commsmity in the last j
several weeks since-this plan has become in effect. It is
not just what we are hearing tonight but what we have heard
from everone out in the Town of Queensbury.
I
Supervisor Walter - I ;would like to have anyone address the
Board who has not done so, already. Mr. Tarana.
I Mr. Pete Tarana 27 Edgewood Drive I think it is obivious
L- it is acontroversial issue and it is a major change and I !
think it would make sense to put it to a vote. Have a referendum
An a year, have the Lestgue of Women Votgrs work on this topic,
present some fact sheets to the Board and the Public have some
debate pro and con and;have people vrte on it, I think it makes
a lot o� : sensel, I would second that motion.
f
Dr. Eisenhart - Do I get a chance to answer something here?
I am very much in favor of this move to contract for our Police
I Services, the reasons have been given. This goes back a number j
of years;- I am in -my second term: on the Board and bock a number
of years ago` I got concerned about this because of-problems i
that kept coming up before the Board in terms of cost and duplica-
tion of services and -that -sort of thing. Back in 74' the County
hired some professional organization who did an exhausttve,ol*u#yj f
-i guess .-it was aexhaustive'.a considerable publication come out of
it which I read very carefully. Which thoroughly convinced me
there is a .dkfisft =,� chance for, a deffette-o pabability for
better service at considerably less cost. That investigation
by the professional organization designated a Warren County
District which was sufposed-to take in everthing e7tpept the G
City of Glens Falls. The problem there was , the City is
governed under different laws and rules, and while they would
allow at some time, the City might want to join in with it,
the recommendation was to go ahead with this District Organization,
I asked the question then� of the Supervisors why nothing came
out of it and I got more or less a shrugging of the shoulders, r
no great reason nothing ever happened as& result of it. Whereas j
Mrs. Walter takes blame -if that is the word fr. initiating j
this program here tonight .or this- plan in the preliminary I
bufget,I have urged herover the years, or several years to
consider this, as I have talked with the Board members because
I feel it is a, welk�I doonot know if it can be said to be necessary
but certainly is a very desirable move toward a disttict police
force, which will enable us to provide better, I hope, at least
266
as good, probably better police service .at considerably
jreduced cost with an elimination of a lot of overlap
than is at present --extend,4f, I stand very--_strongly in
favor of this move.
UNKNOWN —Could you identify yourself.
Dr. Eisenhart - I am Bob Eisenhart, don't you know the ducks?
'Supervisor Waiter - Someone who has not spoken?
Mrs. Ruth Harriaagton - I am a 18 year resident of Town of I
Queensbury taxpayer and I do .believe that what was perfectly
normal to go by five and ten years ago .and having the increase
of people moving into the Town of Queensbury makes it at this
j time obsolete, that you should have -in 'a large Town which
we have large numbers then the .City of Glens Falls, we should
have our own Police protection. You have it from the Ccu nty,
the County has to support a much larger are4, in case of an
emergency if they are up in one end of the County they cannot
possibljr3=be at, the -same time the other end of the County.
Supervisor Waiter - Under the contractual agreement they will
be in the Town. We will not be sharing, they will .be in this
Town
1
Mrs. Ruth Harrington - I still believe your crime rate has increased
so touch within the last two years than it has ever been before
I came from a Country where you did-not have the freedom you do
in this country and I hate to see it 1*s --ling in this Country.
Your Conatitution states that the people are free and they
should mote on -everthing, then why aren't the people-of Queensbury
allowed -to vote on the proposition , for their own Police
Department? I think it should be up to them and not to five
i members of the Board. Would you be interested in making a
1 proposition so people can vote on this, because I think the
people have shown the interest they definitely do not want
j Ito go jour way, -.the Board way or whoever brought it up.
Times have changed especially the past six monthslmuch more
so in any other time. I am in this Country twenty eight years
and I am a citizen twenty five and I believe Ln the Con stitutidn
jmore than any born American, believe you me.
Supervisor Walter - The gentleman in the back.
I Mr. Sanzone - I live on Country Colony Drive I have lived there
approximately eleven years. I have had a few dealings with the.
Police Department in°th*o Town and there . is none finer anywhere.
This Board is elected to"'this Office to take care of the needs
of this Town� I think you `:have heard the people they are very
negative to the idea of getting rid of our Police Department.
Next November I believe -if our- Police Department is abolished
I think this Board is going to be abolished. Thank you.
1 C1dr Huzar - RD1 Rainbow Trail - How could we, how do you
go about asking for a referendum on this matter?
d
Supervisor Walter —This is npt a matter for referendum.
Clair Huzar - How do you get 'a vote on it? I am asking you
as Town Supervisor, how could the people get a vote on this?
Supervisor Walter -. I honestly do not know. There is no way,
' the Police Department of Queensbury was created by a resolution
of the Town Board any abolishment of it is by a resolution of the
Town Board, it is not by the vote of the people.
3
Unknown - why
g7 4
'7
267
Supervisor Waster - Because that happens to be Town Law,
you have elected a Town Board to represent you to be the
executive branch of the Town. To govern the Town -to make
decisions for you.
Mr. Goldsmith - . . .Mrs. Welter, you are to represent us
Supervisor Walter - Mr. Goldsmith, if you -cainnot be quit& I
will`ask"you to- leave "'the room. I am' sorry for the interuption,
Clair Huzar - `Ire other io rdsj you •take- a vote and as you have I
stated you are for it,
Dr. Eisenhart - I am
Clair=Huzar - -you ''are for it Dr. Eisenhart, can I get a vote
�-- from any of,",them?
Dr.—Zisdnhart - We -will have to take a formal vote at some time.
Clair Hdzar - In- otherwords "•the people that are here voicing
j their opinion means absolutely nothing against the five board
members?
Mrs. Walter - As Mrs. Monahan indicated, we have been hearing
opinions throughout the town. I do not feel -that you will find
on any given issue, the people who support it, come out to the t
meetings. I"have been sitting here a long` ttme' and that is the i
J general trend of things.
Mrs. rtHUzar If we 'toak a aurvey of the people, anyone over
eighteen, pro or against, would you accept that?
i
Mr. Eisenhart I would not.
I
Mrs. Walter`- No.
Mrs. Monahan - Just to go out and survey, do you or do you not
I want your own police department? This is not a good survey.
� I
Mrs. Huzar - Since this is relatively new to most people in the
Town of Queensbury, I ask that you put this off maybe for a year
or so-, so the people can get used to the ' idea or do their own
research and you yourself do more research.
i
Mrs. Monahan`- -I feel that" I am hearing a lot of misunderstanding.
I keep hearing that we want a personalized police department,
7 Where do these -people think these people are coming from who are
going to be on- contract with Warren County. They are not coming
from' the state of Wasbeogton or someplace. I -know people on the
j Warren County Sheriff's Department, there from the Town of Queens-
bury. What makes you think that 'the people are going on new, who
1 are going to serve the Town of Queensbury, won't be from the Town
of Queensbury and won't know` the area, I do not understand that
misconception.
$ Mrs.' Walter - It is not the -prerogative of, the Board to hire if
-- we go to a contract. However I can only say, if I can say it I
that I have�.a gentleman's agreement with the Sheriff and the
1 present- Sheriff, that the nine additional men, that would be
required under the contract with the Sheriff' s department, would j
comb from the -presently existing police force.
Mr. Murphy - That is not what Mr. "Kelly"'had in the paper this
morning.
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268
Mrs. Monahan You did not understand what Mr. Kelly said.
What he was saying wasp whether they could move with -their
seniority and their stripes. He did not say where they would
be coming from.
j - Mr. Murphy - -Mrs. Walter is talking about, everything that
! I read in the paper is that nine people in the police I
departments as it exists right now, is going to move to the
Sheriff's department. According to Mr. Kelly, when you
dissolve that department, they go on a list of seniority.
j After other people who have already taken a Civil Service
test for Sheriff, they are going first, our people are
waiting, unless, there is a way to word it that is stipulated
in there, which t+a one has mentioned . . .what the contract
is going to stipulate. Therefore you could move over smoothly,
from what I read, maybe I am wrong, maybe we are here under
false -pretense ourselves, all these people here because until
the Board of Supervisors for the County agrees to this thing,
it--can not happen. Am I correct in that , or am I wrong in that
to? P
Supervisor Waster - That is right.
I - �
Mr. Olson- You are abgolutely-right, nothing-can happen
until,a contraetJs drawn between the ,Town of Queensbury
and the Warren County Board of Supervisors. which will be
a week or ten days before it esomes up, -,something- like that,
we just have some assurances, as Mrs. Walter has said, I have
spoken to the presentSheriff and tte Sheriff Elect. and have
their gentlemen' s agreement that they will take the people
from the Town of Queensbury, the trained officers. They will
be assigned to do work in .the Town of Queensbury so that the
same officers thatare working for the Town of Queensbury and
know the area, that you know and I know, and we work. with,
are the same people who will be here, it will just be a
different department.
Mr. Murphy - If the Board of Supervisors say, we do not want it
P y
-what are we going to do then? What will the Town -Board do?
Mr. Olson - Then we will have a different situation at that time.
You would have a different situation, because I do not want
to put any man out of work, this is the thing, the plan, the Idea,
.that has been "proposed is that the officers from this department
will go to Warren County Sheriff's Dept, through a contract with
the Warren County Board of Supervisors. I made a- few notes, if
I might commentithat -go along with some of th& things you said.
The number of years that I have been here and looking at the State
j Police, Sheriff' s Dept. add the Queensbury; Police we have an
ongoing situation always where we have duplication in the j
areas of dispatching; we operate our own eletype which is an
expensive ides, Mr. Clements spoke about Federal monies, ,,
`I Federal grants I believe we got the teletype on a Federal
grant a few years ago. I did not know at that time we had
to pay a rental on a tie line from New York Telephone Co.j
which we do everyl,month, We- d id receive a couple police
a -cars, we received two police officers their personnel services, j
their pays that. has expired, so we had to pick that-up in our
budget, that was a highway safety program that the Federal
Government- came up with a few years ago. . I am trying to look
at duplication of equipment, dispatching, teletype systems
which are expensive. . I think my own_.thoughtson this whole matter
i sh many people were mislead and thought the Queensbury Police
was going to be abolished, people were going to be put on
unemployment and not have a job, you and myself as taxpayers
of the Town of Queensbury would only have the Sheriff' s car
that you see today. There will have to be a guarantee that
1 269
the proposal of four to five cars -two cars on different
shifts, three to four cars in addition to what we already
have. They will have to be in Queensbury, if there is I
a problem in Lake George, Warrensburg, Queensbury' s patrols
will not be pulled out of here to go up there.
Mrs. Monahan- This will be the wonting of the Contract. f
Unknown - Who will know the difference?
Mr.-Olson - You will have County Supervisors, Mrs. Walter
serves on-the Board of Supervisors, you have four other
j Supervisors, there is a Police Committee in this Town,
the Police Committee of the Town Board would also meet
j with the County Police Agency, Police Go mnittee, .is the
proper word for it. Meet with thempn a regular� gu basis
`.. and meet with the Sheriff also to see what is happening,,
if there are comments, complaints from the taxpayers they �
come to the .Town Board we take it to the -c , ittee in the
County, directly to the Sheriff.
Supervisor Walter - The Contract that we are looking at right
now would be a yearly �contract� it would be renewed, it would
be amended as needed after the first year. It is not something
that you are going to be tied into for-everowe have been talking
about a growing community, I cannot imagine that we would always
JuEt have nine officers - on a contractual hasis. On the other
hand as far as the Warren -County Sheriff' s Dept. are concerned
if the County is growing and many areas in the County are growing
such as ,the Town of Chester, the Town of Bolton we are going i
to probably with any doubt, I shouldn't even say probably,
without any doubtjincrease the Sheriff's Dept. So there will E
be increased ooverage.we can't imagine, tonight we are here that
this coverage that we are talking about for the ,year 1983 I
will be constant for ever. Whether it be, as I started to make
my comments before, whether, it be with this county coverage
that .we .eeceived from the -Sheriff'-s Dept. by virtue of their
being a County Sheriff' s Dept., if Quennsbury never had a Police I
Dept. we would have that minimun 'coverage. What we are saying
to the Sheriff and the County Board of Supervisrs, Queensbury has
grown, we do .not think that - the coverage that the County Sheriff' s
Dept. is adequate for our Town. We have our own Police Dept.
and yet it is becoming very expensive on a yearly basis, when you }
are dealing with the Police and Firemen you are under constraints j
of"the legislature as to -how to deal with them. What right s
and privileges they haverand-many times it does put a constraint
on the smaller jovernment. So, what we are saying is we wish to j
provide L olive -coverage �adequatelynfn r our residents and in order i
to do that we have got to have additional people What is the
number and this is the number that the Board was given after
consideration by the Sheriff. There just isn't any reason
in-the world for this -group� of_peoplej-to think that what we are
talking about tonight� is something that we are going to, be talking
about in 1984 or 85. It will probably be a different situation
altogether as far,as numbers are concerned. and .yet there is j
r absolutely no question that it is less expensive for the town
to have police service in this manner. I
I
Mrs. Monahan - Are you people aware of the fact that right now
you are paying 30% of the Warren County Sheriff's Department
budget?' aYou are going to be obligated to pay-a certain amount i
of the Sheriff's department-budget regardless. With this here
you-- are also going to be-guaranteed a certain amount of protection.
Unknown - We are paying for it twice, f
C
Mrs. Walter - You are not paying ,twice.
i
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270
i
i ?
j Unknown - We have .our own police department. Correct or not?
I
Mrs. Monahan - You have your own police department, but the
point of it is
, can you have more efficiency with a larger-unit
-or .with a . smaller unit? If you are a business man, you really
know the answer to that.
Unknown - You' are saying that we are paying 30% of the Sheriff' s
department, correct? I think our Supervisor and the others up
.there - sitting on that .County Board are -letting us get short
changed. That is what you are telling me.
i
1 Mrs. Monahan - I am just saying already- --
Mrs. Walter - We never said Mr. Murphy
jMr. Murphy - you said we were paying 30%.,do you realize that?
I
Mrs. Monahan- I did not ,
Mr. Murphy - you said yes, we are not getting anything and she
said that is correct.
Mm Monahan- you said we are not getting anything that does not
mean that I am agreeing with you. I have seen ,Sheriff's Dept.
j
respond to many accidents tint the Town of Queensbury
Unknown - it takes them quite a while though.
Mrs. Monahan - It .all depends on where you are.:
I am sorry, but I have been to accidents where the Sheriff
Dept. has been the first one there, so it depends on which
accident you are talking about
Supervisor Walter you are out of order . . ..please speak
into the microphone
e
Marie Scarseletta I live on Pinewood Avenue - I have been
at .th a scene of two accidents both fatal. One was in front.
of the Church, the little boy was ccossing in front of Queensbury
School the other one was Billy Buckingham they were very un-
nerving to see our Sheriff' s Dept. was not there,we had two
Queensbury Cars there before even the ambulance arrived before
3 the Rescue Squad were there, we had two police cars, in that
area. We will not, I doubt very much, get the quick service
I
that we get from the Queensbury Police Dept. Thank you.
Isabelle Morton- .,I am_a . senior citizen -and I live alone. I see
a the Queensbury Police Dept. go by my house more than once a day
it is very reassuring. We come up here to plead dorrour Police
Dept. but I am :af'.raid we have wa sted our time-I think h
am,.speaking for everyone in here, we want our own Police
Dept. Am .I wasting my time and theirs? Thank you.
Supervisor Walter- Does anyone else care to make any comments
on any part of the Budget?
Pete Wideman - I am from the Town of Queensbury I, live on
West MountainRfioad It appears by the number of people you
have here tonight that it is quite apparant that most of the
residents and a lot of the residents of this Town wish to keep
their own police dept. It appears as though your only objective
is to save money, the money comes
Supervisor Walter - No, I also am going to correct you
{ as other members of the Board.0 its not a purely economical,
we feel that we will have more efficient police service.
271
{ Mr. Wideman - Do you not agree that the major portion of
your- contention is that we will save the Town money?
I
Supervisor Walter- Noll think they are equal proportions.
i
I
Mr. Wideman - I cannot see how you can feel that you will get
better protection for the Town of Queensbury with nine people
vs. the number you have now. Number twos As far asrthe savings
that the taxpayers are concerned) we all pay the taxes as well
as you do, who live in the Town of Queensbury, it is only fair
that the people of Queensbury have the option to decide what j
- they want to do. Do they pay the- taxes, pay additional taxes
if necessary, - cut the budget elsewhere if necessary but we i
' have the option to decide. I ask that this Board bring upon
themselves to make this public referendum because. you are the
only ones that can do so; we cannot, we can only voice our
�- opinions. We can only.ask- that you do as we wish you to do
at this point. I believe that the majority of the people
in the Town of Queensbury would like to a4least have the ability
to make their voice known, and make their own decision, or to
help you make your decision. Can we, in any way encourage you
to make that a public referendum so that we can make our
own decisions or are you set- in your own decisi® at this point,
where it does not matter what we feel?
Supervisor Walter - I think that I have stated before that it is
j a decision that is made by the Town Board.
i
Mr. Wideman - you will notelet the residents of this Town sway
your decision in any way.
I
�I
Supervisor Walter- I have listened to the residents for five
years in the Town.
Mr. Wideman - Obviously you have not been listening to the people
�--- who have been speaking --
I
Supervisor Walter - Not the ones that are here this evening,
but I guess maybe a lot of other people.
Mr. Wideman- I would like to know, what percentage of people
that you have spoken t%7that have. agreed that they would like
to see the Police Dept.- abolished or go to the plan that you
proposed at this' time?.
,
Supervisor Walter - you are going to ask me for a. percentage
over a five year period, I am sorry I can not.
Mr. Wideman - How many people have ,your since you have made the f
proposal known, how many people have come out and publicly. W
consented to your program?
4
Supervisor Walter - A lot of people on a daily basis, and two
people called up to say that they weren't appreciati-re of the
idea, ed this group here this' evening:
� ffK
4
Mr. Wideman �- I still feel
Unknown -'where are they
4
Dr. Eisenhart why should they be here
Unknown - They should be here to voice their opinion the
same &s-`we' are:.
r
Dr. Eisenhart - I have talked to a number of peop]ewho said I
i
hb e _
P you can get this through , I do not know what the number
i
272
3
f
is,. ten,fifteen maybe something of that-.. nature.
Supervisor Walter Do you have any further comments?
Mr. Wideman - I would like to know, we have listened to people
FYAj* the issue here for a while I would like to get
,
an answer to why- or if you will make -it public and if so
why. will you note let- the people of this Town have. a voice
on an important issue like this?
i
Supervisor. Walter. - If the Board wants to consider that
{ then I think that_ is their prerogative.
Mr. Wideman - Can we tonight ask that the Board make
a decision one way or the other if they will make it
public or if they will not? . . .you are the only people
that can bring that about.
9
Dr . Eisenhart- I do not see, when I was asked to run for
this position I understood that the Town Board had certain
? responsibilities and one of them is- setting a budget and
therefore this is what I was elected ford to set the budget,
not to take every item,h do not- want to go over Ft:- Amherst
I Lighting and ask a referendum whether it should be 5400 or
6000 I do not want to, go to the.., it- is not evading the issue
these are things we have: to do.
Supervisor Walter - This is a public hearing if you wish the
microphone you will have to. ask for it-lets not have any further
comments without being at the microphone.
Mr. Wideman - I have one more further question to direct to Mr.
Morrell. Do you support the proposal that they are making-
are you one of the supporters as you-stated in the article
you would, or in the Chrothisle you would support a referendum
if it was. brought to a �voterto do so and are.you in support
of it or is there. any- way we could get this, Board to
change their mind. Obviously by listening to the people
j who have talked here so fare they have already male-pup their
I minds and the only fearsthat. I feel they have, is. that if
they let the public voice their opinion; . that- their dedisions
a will be overuled., They will have no other choice bat to vote
the way the people want them to vote.
Mr. Morrell - Over the last week or so I have bean� otting down
plusses and minuses. and I .have been waiting for everpne else
to express their opinion, and if they are done, there are some
things that I would like to bring out. I do not moan any offense
to anybody here. Usually what happens when somebody does not
like something, they show up. If they are, happy, they stay home.
I am very pleased that there are about 125 people here. tonight
out of the 9000 registered voters. Just some- food for thought,
and some things that l think this Town Board should consider,
before we make a final decision. I agree that it is nice to have
your own police force, you feel comfortable with it. I also
feel that I can support the concept of a county wide police
department. The transition is going to create many problems,
some that I do not think were even mentioned here tonight.
Most of the problems have been mentioned on the local level,
What about the people on the County Sheriff' s Department who
have been there for several years who are now eligible for
sargeant, and two of Queensbury' s sargeant' s go on the County
Sheriff' s Department as sargeants , what is going to happen to
those people' s seniority? I would also like to see the contract
before I would even make a decision. Some good points were
brought out.by Mr. Mead, Mr. Dearlove and Mr. Donovan
273
J on the shifting of responsibility. If this Town Board
approves the budget and go for a $250,000 contract with
Warren County for police ;protection ,and the contract comes
through, which tends to be totally unsatisfactory, we are
stuck with a budget figure of $250,000 ,and it would be
'extremely difficult to reinstate what we already have.
Maybe it soumds like_ I .am hedging the issue here, I could
support going for a voter referendum if it is legally
possible. I recommended it before, but of all my reading
of the McKinney's Town Law, and I think Mr. Tarana might
even be able to agree with me on it because he has read it
probably more than I have. Any part of Town government that
has been created by Town Board resolution is a Town Board
l; responsibility to continue or dissolve. Mr. Brennan is not t
�. here tonight and I do not know whether-by law it .would even
I be legal.
I
Mr. Olson - There are certain areas that referendums can be
held on, Water Districts, Special Districts which do not
affect the wholi town. Before you can get an answer to your f
question, it will have to be investigated and see if it is
legal to hold a referendum:> on this particular question.
E
Mr. Wideman - Will the Board take that necessary step to see
if it is legal? And if so, will you make -it public? If there
is a -logistics problem,we will have to live with that,but if
there is not a logistics problem -
Mr. Eisenhart - You mean_a legal problem?
Mr. Wideman - A legal problem, yes, -why can we not bring it
to the public? I think everybody here wants to find out.
k
.f Mr. Morrell - Another pointy that -I would like to bring out)
thatwas king of eluded to by somebody previously, I think
we -are all aware what has happened in Washington County with
the reduction of their Sheriff"s department and their protective
force because of budgetary cutbacks, well it happened. We could
become by contract a victim. I do have some doubts. The concept
I agree with. If you start looking at some of the fine points
it brings questions. I would like to see this Torn Board, budget I
the $515,000 just in case something goes -wrong: _Hut I also {
will say that if a contract comes through, as -,we have been
promised, I will support the changeover.
Mr. Wideman - The only other question that I have, as you
mentioned -it is a one year contract with the County, we have
no assurances that.:next year- the fi gure will not be doubled
from the figure you have this year. They have us blocked in,
we will have very little choice at that time, once we have done €
away with our own police department, how do we at .that point
reverse ourself and go back without costing the tqxpayers of 4
this town :a lot of additional expenses at that time. We have
no guarantees that next year or two years down the road, that
this program will not cost. ns as much money as our current budget
— proposes or may _even exceed what it could be a year or two
years from now, we have no guarantees of that. I
Mrs. Walter - We have no guarantees on anything including our
own budget.
Mr. .Wideman - It is a distinct possibility that when money
b ecomes .tighter -in the County, that-they will ask for more
and more from us and other townships who are doing the same
thing. We feel that we would like to have our own police force,
we can regulate our own budget, E
274
F
as to how much dollars we spend for a police department
and if it
g gets to a point where we do not like the dollars
that arebeing spent, we can make a cutback ourselves. ;
Once the County gets. control of this, we lose control of
what happens, I feel.
Mr. Morrell - Is there a Mrs. Trackey here tonight?
I have seen a number of petitions around the town, do you
have any indication as to the number of people who signed
those petitions.
r
Mrs. Scarselletta - I have 1500 names right here. That is r
just in the Queensbury area.
1 Mr. Morrell .This was not brought out here tonight. There
' are 125 really concerned here. There are many who could not
make it.
Mr. Mousseau - Didn't the town have a referendum to have
a public works department? Why isn't it legal to have one
about our police department?
Mrs. Walter - Town Law has indicated that you have a Highway
Superintendent and if you do not want that, you must go; to
referendum. It was not the case with the police department.
Mr. Mousseau - Why isn' t it lawful to have a referendum now?
Mrs. Walter - As we indicated -
I
Mr. Morrell - It does not change the political structure.
Mr. Olson - The suggestion was to do away with an elected
official, make that person appointed by the Town .Board.
Some of the towns have appointed Town Clerks. That would
have to be brought before a referendum, if the people did
not want an appointed DPW.
Mr. Bly - Is it -right that you—people—do not know the difference
between the Sheriff's Dept. and the Police Dept.-you keep going
back and forth-one time you are talking about the Sheriff' s
I Dept.J one time you are talking about the Warren .County Police
Dept. Dr. Eisenhart is way off-he is not even talking about
the Sheriff's Dept.
Dr. Eisenhart —what I said wasjthe original study recommended
a district Police Dept. that was never acted upon it died
and left there. When read that,.I became very much convinced
that this is the -way to go, this is a step in that direction ,
± it is not the same plan exactly, it was to create a seperate
Police Dept. for a District-not the entire County because
they had to leave out Glens Falls. This .was the summation -
the recommendation of this study it convinced me at that time.
This is not something that I deamed up in the last three weeks
or three months, I have been convinced of this for a number
of years. I remember I went and talked to Bob Flacke when
he was one of the Supervisors and I talked to some others up
there but nothing ever happened, this is a move in that direction.
Mr. Clements - A move in what direction? .
Dr. Eisenhart - The direction of having a larger .Police Dept.
to handle thve Police protection in the area.
Mr. Clements - Outside of the Sheriff' s Office?
Dr. Eisenhart - Them plan was to set up a seperate district
Police outside of the Sheriff' s-it would end up with t he
Sheriff' s being only the ,jailor and that sort of thing-it would
275
be a seperate Police, that has not happened. This move
to take over the Police pactection in the- Town of 'Queensbury
by the Sheriff' s Dept. would gain us some of the economies
of size and still pveserve. the personAL . relationship that
are helpful- in Police work in the Town This is along that
line,it is not exactly i t they came up with in 1974, do I
make myself clear?
Supervisor Waiter - Is there anyone else who wishes to address
the Board on any part of the budget who has not spoken?
Ed Bartholomew I live on Bullard Avenue-I have. been in
Glens Falls for about twentyfive or thirty years. We have
a lot of responsible people here tonight-they came down
here,they are -responsibletitizens and" h think it is very
evident that they all wanetain our own Police Dept. They I
have asked and they have also stated that they feel that the
Board here represents the people and basically what I got ,, j
out of it is', the people here are asking can we at least have !
1 a referendum- to =ke our own determination as to whether or
not we want to keep our Police Dept. whether we want to pay
extra for it and again,basically I think that is what we are
saying. We want to keep our Police Dept. can we have a
i
referendum?
{ Supervisor Welter - Does anyone else wish to sake any comments?
UNKNOWN -` Would you answer his question?
I
Supervisor Walter - I think: I will answer it by saying the
Board will take it under consideration... Anyone Uho has not
spoken and wishes to speak?
i
Mr. DeMars- I just question whether or not the- Town of Queensbury f
has adopted any bylaws? Do you have a set of bylaws that you
go by?
Supervisor Welter - We operate under the Town Law set by the
legislature of the State of New York.
Mr. DeMars - Which taxpayers do govern a certain portion of that
by paying our taxes.
4
Supervisor Walter - I really do not understand E
P y your question. ,
Mr. DeMars - All we are doing is asking fn r a simple thing to
have a referendum, you are tilling us that sae, can't.
Supervisor Walter - I said we would take it under consideration. f
Mr. DeMars - It has already been done,
i
Mrs. Harrington - Yes or no that is all we want.
Supervisor Walter - Really� we are spending, a lot of time here,
you heard Mr. Morrell,I think indicated -Mr. Olson,they do not
-- know if it is legal or not, I do not think it is myself we will
check without Town Attorney. Nobody is going to give you an
answer tonight, if anyone would like to ask the same question
again we w13 not acko +►iedgeEit� let_ us have other. questions
or other commets from the people.
Mr'. Walter Donovan - - How long is it going to take this Board l
to sit' down and decide whether we are going to get a referendum
here or not and whether the legal question can be answered,
when will this budget be adopted?
I
Supervisor Walter - Before the 20th of November.
276
Mr.' Walter Donovan - You say the people that came here tonight
are in protestand- many time you havemeetings that very few
people show. I twe been a taxpayer of thist Town for the past
twelve years I have seen the budget constantly increasing and
I have seen the ',Ughway dept. formed, I did not come here to
protest anything like that., I feel that the Board of Supervisors
here is doing a pretty good job, but after what I saw here
tonightjno way, now I am going to get interested in the Town
o-f- Queensbury- Abd- see what can happen comes next election day,
I will tell youthat.
Dr. Eisenhrt- I think that is fine I- hope a lot more of you
9 et interested.
Supervisor Walter Anyone who has not spoken
Mr. . Tarana .- Justa: point I would like to make, there are
referendums and there are referendums, when -you talk ab6ut
a legal referendum I am sure you know what you meaaI am not
sure if evel-yone -else knowawhat you mean. You aretalking
about a referendum that-- is heJL4, that legally binds the Town
Board to do what ever the public wants: to do. In the law
ou can't hold a legally binding referendum on this issue
y
but you are still interested 'in sentiment of the- publicit.
would make sense to hold a referendum anyway, I n#" a vote,,
put it ina ballotr'-- box and have peoplecome in "just
informally dOcide among yourselves that we want to check
the sense of the-, people and you will be guided by the same
of the people. You can have a referendum even if it is not
in that law-you can put it in a ballot box-not that it will
bind you or the Tcwn Board but certainly, it would give you
some indication of the feeling of the people. Maybe people
here are non -representative but at least you would give
people a chance, that is my thoughts.
Mr. Morrell- To add something to your suggestion a referendum
of that typelif it were not legal according to Town Law which
is set by the Stateyou would need one person a taxpayer in
the Ton of Queensbury to bringa class action suit against the
Ton for using Town monies for a referendum of that sort, it would
b e legal.
Mr. Tarana - I have never seen that.
Mr. Morrell- But it can be done.
Unknvwn - Why would you have to use Town monies-why ,could you
not use volunteers?
Mr. Morrell- Well if you used paper ballots.-md things like that,
if you used a voting machine -or anything, that would expend tax-
payers money to run a referendum that was not legal within,,
the eyes of the lawyou are facing a problem.
Mr.- Tarana. -- I cannot believe this, you are telling us that
we can't vu*M vote on an;Jssue here in a non-legally binding
manner, I cannot believe this, you people are being told
that, you cannot vote on awissue that ,is hard to believe.
Dr. Eisenhart - That is why we were electedthat is why the law
is set up this way..
Supervisor Walter- Because thisbas become very rhetoric and
eveTne has really had a chan$e to speak if you don t have
anything new to add I -would suggest we close the Public hearing.
Mr. Ham Hoenck- If I understand correctlyjthe total budget as
proposed amount to Six million seventyfour thousand dollars
am I correct? The amount to be raised by taxes if it were
277
adopted in this fashion would come to two;-million and
thirtyfour thousand dollars.
Supervisor Walter- Correct
Mr. Hans Hoenck - Would it be feasible for the Town Board to
entertain, looking at the budget again, to come back to the
savings we are supposed to get through the abolishment of
the Police Dept. , we are talking about 3% of the Total budget.
I have been going through the individual departments all
individual departments do show an increase rather than staying
even. Would it be such 'a challenging job for the Town Board
to come close in re action of other departmental expenses
to meet. . .
Supervisor-Valter - I find some departments that actually
decreased.
i
Mr. Hans Hoenck_- .That might be so, . . and then give yourself
the time necessary, wait ,:until next year communicate
with the public, gets them ready for a possible move .in the
direction that Dr. Eisenhart recommended. Why do this in
such a haste., this is shock treatment that you are giving
tonight. You are mistaken if you believe the One Hundred
and twenty five people here_ are the only people who are
concerned. I felt shocked and I amm-usujally quite aware
of things. and l figured this year, this question would not
be raised but all of a sudden it is on the agenda About
fthree to four weeks before the final decision has to be made.
Why not give yourself more time to make. this dramatic move
for a Town ouch as ours. . . .Look at your budget cut the
expenses i*ther areas-if you do not want to go. to the pocket
for another tax increase: and then communicate with the public,
and prepare them for such a move, with facts and support. j
IDr. Eisenhart- We spen7 hours, and-hours chopping at this thing
to get it down to a managable size-we sat up here night after
. night-we did not bus t- take this- without digging into this.
1 st ear
Mr. Hans Hoenck - Why d�-d you not starnpr�paring the people .
li Dr. Eisenhart- Iv was started in 1974 that is eight years, f
G
Mr. Hans Hoenck - . ,this is -hard enough:over five. years now
it is supposed -to be decided- upon in five weeks. This is the
shock treatment I received and believe me I am not the only one
here in this-township .and these people are not Ae only ones.
i You go out: into the::community, you find out I think you will find {
out, the ;same that. we found out. j
I f
Mrs. Monahan—Fran, I would like to make a comment and you
i know the budget a lot -better than I do working with it for
so many yearslso pkease correct me if I am wrong. : If you
�-= look at the budget, it is not two,million dollars to be
raised by taxes of all. the taxpayers. Incluged in that
are many speciAl districts the tax only applied to that
certain district. --So- your--total general.,�to be raised by
{ — taxes is Four Hundred and Seventy Two Thousand Six Hundred
{ and seventy eight plus your fire protection thh is
j Fcur Hundred and thirty five thousand eight hundred and
sixty five dollars, is there any more. that should be in the
ge'ner L part'Fran? That is Nine hundred and eight five hundred
and forty three thousand dollars to be raised by taxes of all
the taxpayers in the Torn of Queensbury�taking out Special
Districts that support themselves. If you put the Police
Dept.fi:back. in that would- be thirty percent]one third of the
amount of money that is being paid by all the taxpayers.
You cannot and . . .the Police Depti and compare it with the
two million you compere it with Nine hundred and eight thousand
five hundred and f6rty three dollars.
278
t
Supervisor Walter- right
r,
Councilman Olson You might want tD point out to them that
a million dollars in the budget a million seventeen thousand
is for the water department which is a special district-not
all the residents in the Town of Queensbury are in the
Water District.
t r
Mrs. Monahan- And then you twe lighting districts that
refer just to the people within those districts.
4
Unknown- Why can't we the people of Queensbury-Kp$y the
! additional money, for one more year so you will 'not act
so hastily? Give us a year rather than five weeks.
Supervisor Walter- That has to be a decision of the Board.
r
Mr. Morrell - I have got one question for that, I just wrote
it down, I will. share it with you, I am curious as how an. Eg
the people-will"be when their get what-they wants when they find G
7 out how much it is going- to cost them?
Mrs. Monahan- Fran can you give an estimate of what that would
add to .the tax#-,rate?
Mr. Hans- Hoeabk-Mrs. Walter your police Dept. is asking for
Five hundred and fifteen thousand dollars they had a budget
of Four hundred and forty last year-I know they have increases
but I am sure you can hold it to less than five hundred
and fifteen.
Mrs. Monahan- I am taking the difference taking out the contract
leaving in, I am figuring three hundred and eleven thousand
dollars more that it would coat us.
Mr. Hans Hoenck - As I commented before if all departments
were taken in this fashion, and believe me I have been
through budgets, more than any- one of you up there. . .
t
Dr. Eisenhart- Oh no yoq haven't. . .
Mrs. Monahan- We are trot talking about three percent, we are C
talking about thirty percent. You do not put it on the
Two million to be raised because. part of that is.special
districts that everybody does not have to pay, you put it on
nine hundred and eight thousand five hunted and fortythree f
dollars. Do you have a copy of the budget I think' you could
tell. If you look at your figures on the first page, $ 472,678
everbody has to pay taxes on that. Look down at your fire
protection, $435,865, every tax payer in the Town of Queensbury
is responsible for that tax, all the rest are special districts,
that only people within that district are responsible to pay
the taxes on They are not formed by all the people in the
Town-'of Queensbury. You. do it on $908;000; your police
protection will be compared to $908,000 not the $2,000,000.
You are not comparing apples and apples. Your not comparing
apples and apples when we are talking about raising.
Mr. Murphy - Is that $312,000 included in that?
Mrs. Monahan - No, $908,j '• is what every taxpayer in the Town
of Queensbury is responsible for now to- be raised by taxes.
When you put the police department back in, roughly you will
add on another $311,000.
Mr. Murphy a, Why isn't everybody in the Town of Queensbury
responsible for that $3113,000?
f
3
}
I 279
Mrs. Monahan - They would be. That is what I am saying. That
would go in to the part that everyone is responsible for, but
j everyone isn't responsible for and why you can not use the
$2,000,000 figure as the total of all, because everybody is
j not responsible for Water districts or Lighting districts.
Mr., Murphy - You are saying ,$900,000, if you took that $311,000
and .add 30% more.
Mr. Eisenhart - It is in there.
Mrs. Monahan - No, it. isn't in there,_.not now. If we put the
police department back in --- No, wait a minute Doctor, if we
`- put the extra back in for the police_dep�ttment to go back in
thq. hudget it would take about another. $311,000 which would
go on top of the $908,000.
Mrs. Walter -, It would be more than a 30% increase on the amount
of town tax which has not been determined yet. It will be by
the County Board but you can rest assured your town tax rate
is going up and people who live in the Land 0 Pines and the
Broad Acres Water District are_..going to be paying for the first
time per thousand dollars in excess of $10,00 per thousand.
j This in addition to what we are _.talking about in a town tax.
There are two new water districts. There area lot of people
in ihe..town that are paring substantially more next year because
they are included in a special district. The town is very diff-
erent than the city because the city is taxed on a city wide
basis. The town has general fund items, we have highway items
we have otlker items that _are taken out -of a fund, plus the
various water districts, plus other special_districts that
has been eluded to such as lighting, drainage districts,
because those people who live -in those districts pay for those
jservices. There is no way we can sit up here and tel*ou what
your tax- bill is going to be next year. There is no way we can
do-that right now. -Everyone in the To f eensbu tax bill
j y z'y
is different depending on the districts that you live in.
Unknown - Is it going to do us any good to keep on with our
petitions? There is a ,lot of hard work involved in that.
j tote have petitions out and we have more _to go out._ I hate to
waste time if it4not going to do us any good.
Mr. Morrell .- Mrs. Van Ness, the only one I can speak for is
myself. That is why I asked the question as to the number of
signatures. To me that would be important. Mrs. Scarselletta has
1500 from just one little section.
Mrs. Scarselletta - Fran said a little while ago that we
represent only a small amount of the people, true they are
not here, but I think they are represented when they sign
a petition.
� i
Mrs. Walter '- Yes, but on the other hand, I have looked
i at the etitions and they indicate oc the top that we are in
I favor of keeping a police department. There is. nothing there
that indicates to those people what the cost is, or any
information about it. Now I will say that if you are relying
on what had been written in the newspaper, _ I am sorry, but we
have not been able to get our point across.
Mrs. Scarselletta - I am not relying on-that. I am sure when
these people signed their names they were responsible to know,
to keep the police departmentjthere was going to be an increase
in their taxes.
I
i
280
4
Mrs. Walter - I rather doubt it because they do not know
how much of an increase they are going to get 'right now.
Mrs. Scarselletta - I do not know either, but I am willing
to take the chance.
Mrs. Monahan - When 'these people signed those petitions,
how much detail did they have about the alternate proposal?
I
f
Mrs. Scarselletta - , I really do not know because I did not get
all of these names. Why does it matter to you if these people
are willing to pay it. They do not seem to care.
Mrs. Monahan - It matters to me whether or not they knew
what the alternate`�system proposed would be so they
knew they were making a choice between the two systems.
Mrs- Scarselletta I" think it does not matter 'to these people,
I tnk the
hi y -want to keep their department.
3
Mrs. Monahan - My point is, I want to know if they signed that, f
knowing the 'alternate system proposed? I think it does matter. 4
Mrs. Scarselletta - Okay then, we can bring it to a vote, and
the people have a chance to express themselves. They certainly E
know, they are not going to vote on something that they do not
want to accept.
p:
Unknown - I know you mentioned before that you had been
-misquoted i*he Post Star, is there somebody representing the
paper here?
Mrs. Walter - She just left.
j unknown - I `was going to suggest, would it be possible that
�you 'could use the Post Star to print all of your information,
your factual infoimatio bout it, and perhaps have some sort a
of a survey form right there in the paper for Queensbury
residents to see right there in black and white and also to
register their opinion and somehow get it to you. Quite
1 frankly this is the first time that I have heard of a petition
going around. Several area residents as well as myself have
discussed this, and I came here for the purpose of getting
mre information about this because this really came up quite
suddenly for me. I was surprised that it was being brought up
at this time. I am just wondering how you can use the Post
Star to get the information out to those people ,who are not
here tonight and perhaps get. a feeling from the rest of those
people, list all of the information you have given here tonight,
how much is this going, to get involved as far as dollars and
cents and what exactly is this proposal - going to entail.
Can this be done as a reasonable and viable alternatives
Could we possible investigate asking. . .
Supervisor Walter - I really would want to take a consensus
of the Board to see whether they want to run their government
on survey forms.
Unknown- Their government is our government.
Supervisor Walter - yes, that is right and your government and
my government and the fact of the matter is that we were elected
to make decisions here and if every time a decision comes up
that effects the community and you would be so surprised at
how many decisim s that we have made this past year that is
going to effect the whole community where we did not use
survey forms or what ever, we used what information we had
available,we used comments from people perhaps even to get
it to legislative issue and that is pretty much what we are
doing right now. The Dr. said this is not newfl am sorry- i
1 281
for those people here who feel that it is because it is
staefihing that has been talked about.The Queensbury Town
Board went on record last fall in a resolution with the County
saying that we were in favor of a study for Countywide
Police force and we were very instrumental, the Queensbury
representatives, at the County in getting that survey done.
It is 'absoluteAy not new. In talking about a survey for
a County Police force, I do not want to misrepresent what I
am saying because that is something different than what we
are looking at here which is a contractual agreement. If
is very confusing to talk-,,to a lot of people and I know I
am going to say. sometting and you are going to get very
f upset with it, you do have to see the total picture, you
have to have all the iatbrmatianavailable, to make the
decision. We have talked about it, we have tried to get
information from various places and this. is how we,have
come to- the point where we' are here this evening there that
amount of money was put in the preliminary budget. It is not
something that was thought about yesterday, it is something
that we have been talking about and I am sorry that the
j public feels as though it is being sprung on them. It is
a very viable alternative it saves the taxpayers in the Town
a lot of money it is saving them less money the first year
because we have close out costs. Even if it goes up, so has
out Town Police Budget gone up, it has been escalating at
a very rapid pace over the years. We only had a couple
i of Policemen as- short as six years ago, it-- has just been
since 1977 that the Police fD rce has increased in the Town-
there has not been that much growth between 1977 and now-
! the growth in Queettury took place in 1960' s and 1970' s
As I indicated before there is notmove afoot by any member
of the Board at' any time during our conversations to take
the Police. coverage away from the residents in the Town.
We are doing away with duplication of equipment, we are
doing away with the administrative costs we are doing away
with overhead. We will be able to draw on thirty officers
currently by adding nine more-a staff of thirty nine to meet
contractual agreements. Now, the Chief has mentioned at
informational meetings that we have two people or two patrols
on a shift-that: is what we' are contracting for sometimes I
know he has not been -able to do that, .because we have had
a dispatcher absent and we pulled patrolmen off the road
to -do- dispatching. I know that, I know that you do not know
that because you do not deal with it on a daily basis. Through
all of these instances and situations throughout a period of
a couple of years and. the fact that the Town was looking to
a see if we could go on County wide force to look into a study,
that w -even considered this . It happened to be at one of those
meetings that I was at, that a representative from the Department -
! of Criminal Justice Services said, this is an alternative because
a lot of aims =the County Police Force becomesvery bureaucratic
and very expensive. What we are able to do now� that we never
could do five or six years agojis to contract and that we are
being repetitive here tonight, I have said it before that this
is going to be done-it--is- being done- in several places . it is
not illegal, it is perfectly legal. It is a cost savings measure
where you do not los a anything and in fact in the long run may
gain something. It has been pointed out before you like a person-
{ able Police force fine we are looking to hire the gentlemen
that we have on our Police Dept. right nuw . You are still
going to have the familiarity,. They -are- trained Patrolmen
they are not somebody we are just picking upthey will be
giving to you the same °exact service that you extracted from
them while they were in the Taw n of- Queenbury. For the life
of me) I do not understand why there is such opposition except
for the fact that in the very beginning we had a lot of .mis-
information go out and it was not from the Taw n Board. That
is what I think had a. lot of people extremely concerned and
{ I really round not blame you because there is noway in the
282
world that I would ever want to see half the Police Force
in a growing Town it does not make eense.
Unknown I saw our Police Chief back there earlier this
evening, if he is still- there could we have him speak to us'
to have him give us some information?
Supervisor Walter -If he, he certainly has the right and the
privilest. of the floor. He has a right to his own opinion.
.Charles Judkins - I would like to relinquish that and have
Chief from Cohoes make a statement.
,j -
Supervisor Walter - I talked with our attorney before and
he said to limit the comments to the Board to Queensbury
Residents. I did indicate if you were going to be here,
would -'that be appropriate, and he said yes. I really
do not know whether,-does the Board want to :hear from
somebody from the City of Cohoes? f
I
Mrs. Monahan - I think we should hear from our own Chief.
Supervisor Walter- Chief, if you cannot comment on this 1
I think we will not give the privil4aa - of the floor to
somebody from- Cahoes.
I
Unknown- I do not reptpsent Cohoes. I am president of the
Northeast Chief's Conference and the third vice president
of the State Chief' s- of Police. - -
Mrs. Walter — This is a budget hearing. We will have a town
board meeting when you can speak. This is on the budget for
the residents of the Town of Queensbury. €
_ t
Unknown - You have failed to return any of our phone calls.
to the state office
P
Mrs. Walter - I am sorry sir. You have not phoned my office.
Now, do not represent to these people that -I do not return my
phone calls. I do know that you visited -the Chief on his
invitation one dsy,when I happened not to be in the building,
along with the press from the Albany area. On his invitation.
Now, if I were here, and I think my secretary represented to
Chief Judkins that if you were coming, to let me know, we
would set up an appointment and we would have a meeting and
so far you have not done that. Now, I may be a lot of things
but I will tell you one thing, I return phone calls. I do not
need somebody from some place else to come in here and tell my
constituents that I do not return phone calls.
Unknown - I am sorry but you do not return phone calls.
Mrs. Walter - You are out of order.
Mrs. Monahan I may have used an erroneous figure here.
If we put the Chief' s budget back in, what would the
difference mean in that, on page four. About $204,000 rather
than the 4300,000 I gave you I think. I was not giving them
credit for some of the things that were- still in.
Mrs. Walter - Also because of those close-out figures,* one of
which being retirement at $41,000 inflates that figure, that
we would not have, otherwo*ds were talking about going up
next year, actually essentially would go down on a second
year basis even with increases for the officers.
Mrs. Monahan -They are talking about if we kept the police
budget, I think maybe when I said $300,000 that was an erroneous
figure, it would add $300,000, I think it would add closer to
$204,000. Again it is a fast calculation, I may be wrong on
-- ---.- -
that too. -
283
Mr. Wideman - I can not believe that this Board would make
a decision of this magnitude.
Mrs. Walter - We havejby Town Law -have to pass a budget by the
j 20th of November, we have no alternative.
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Mr. Wideman - I do not disagree >with that, you have to pass
j one. What I can not believe, you do not have your facts, you
j can not tellthe people of Queensbury how many dollars per
thousand is going to effect their taxes. There is no one
I here that can tell this. Is it going to affect us $50.00
per thousand or $5.00 per ,thousand. -1-,do not believe you
have that information available to you when you make that
decision.
Mrs. Walter - the problem with answering that question with
figures from the floor that we are ,jockeying around, is somebody
is going to add wrong and tomorrow you are going to say you
gave us the wrong figure.
Mr. Wideman - What .I .am. saying is, that you should have had
Mormation three weeks ago or five weeks ago when you were
making your decision. You should -have said it is going to
j save us $250 or 300,000 which would mean a difference in our
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taxes of x number: of dollars.
Mrs. Walter - It makes a difference of $227,000.
Mr. Wideman - How much of an effect does that have on the total
tax base in this town?
Mr. Eisenhart - This is decided by the County„ We do not set
{ the tax rate in that sense. We tell them what we have to have
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and they set it.
Mrs. Walter
—1t is -a County function to set tax rates for all
the municipalities in the County.
Mr. Wideman —Explain what you just said.
{ Mrs. Walter It is a County function to set tax rates for
the municipalities and Special Districts within the County.
County Law gives them that prerogative. In other words we send
this) (budaet shown)j to the Board of Supervisors Clerk, of
Warren County and he puts it to th*e rocess and tells us what
our.`:tax rate is.
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Unknown •- You mean to say -you can not tell me approximately
what my tax rate will be?
Mrs. Walter - Approximately I can but I am afraid to do it
approximately because you are going to tell me that I gave you
the wrong figure.
! Unknown- Not when you say approximately. . .
Mrs. Walter- Do you know how much you are paying this year?
Unknown- It cost me -about $700. . .
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Mrs. Walter- You are not paying $700
Unknown - That is everthing combined. . .
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` a i ter
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Supervisor Walter- We do not deal with School Taxes I am k
talking about your town tax. What is you 'rate -per thousand? .
Unknown- I do not know. I am just saying that every town
I read the papers aVot1 I have had a little bit .more to do
with politics than other people, but every place I have
seen that has presented a budget attached to the budget,
'has presented what the tax rate could be and they always
say approximately, then they will come back with a regular
figure. Mr. Robertson gave a tentative `tax' increase for
everybody -in the County if it is adopted, it is not adopted
yet I realize that, Saratoga did the same thing where I
work, Renselaeer did where the -49% deal went into effect
they are dealing,wth percentage they put in what would
be a tentative budget but this is what the tax rate would
be in the Town's down there. Towns all over do that I just
cannot understand. . .
Supervisor Walter- "If your `tak 'rate this year was $1.71
per thousand that is your Town tax $171 that is for all
the people who say what high taxes they pay, next year
you would be 'paying about $2.50 a thousand.
Unknown- Is that with or Vithout the Police?
Supervisor Walter - Without the Police,
Mr. Morrell- With the police force it would be an additional
$4.45 per thousand.
Unknown for two hundred more thousand dollars?
Mrs. Monahan- I 'figured it would raise your taxes
22%
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Mr. Morrell*_ If you take Nine Hundred and Eight Thousand
Dollars and divide it into Two Hundred and four thousand t`
dollars it would take to maintain the Police Depths the
budget says it comes out four dollars and 45 cents per
thousand
Unknown- what are we paying per thousand now? -
Supervisoi'Valter- $1.71 per thousand
Unknown---Three times what they are now?
Supervisor Walter- Because we have a tax increase next year,
based on the increase in the Highway Dept.
Dr. Eisenhart- You have a sizable increase anyway. . .
Supervisor Walter- It'-is about 804� per thousand on that
figure and you are going for every hundred and thirty five
thousand dollars you are paying an additional dollar. I
can giveayou 'those figures, that is what I work with but
I cannot give you any specific figures.
. . . .your Town tax rate last year was $1. 71
t
Mr. Olson- If you -were in a water district you have to add
the water tax.
Supervisor Walter- and you have your County tax which takes
care of th e -Count but that is nothing that we handle here.
What Mr. RobertsotA f you read the paper today was the I
County Tax and I really do not want to
get into the nutxbers
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285
because they are not exact.
At One hundred and thirty five thousand, a Hundred and
forty thousand adds another dollar to your assessed value,
for every thousand of your assessed value.
Unknown- "One hundred and forty thousand adds another dollar?
Supervisor Walter- adds another one dollar per thousand.
Unknown- It was U.71 last year it will go to $2.50 so you
add another Two hundred thousand we add two more dollars
Supervisor Walter- yes
Mrs. Monahan- So you are talking about a lot of people
�.. assessed at 24-25 thousand dollarsififty or sixty dollars
more. .but yo+dd that to what their addition already is
with water dist. is going up, you keep adding and adding
and you have a beautiful problenfor somebody. We have
a lot of people in Queers bury that cannot pay, that is the
whole point.
Dr. Eisenhart- we want to get the- services at less costs.
Supervisor Walter- we-want to give you the services maintain
the services and give you better service for less cost, and
that to me is,-1 cannot understand the problem with the people
when- they, because they do not believe they are going to get
any better service. They is the whole .bottom line here as
a far as you are concerned.
Mrs Farrington- I-was taught when I -became a,c itizen that
any major change in'Town or City is decided by the voters. . .
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Supervisor Walter- That is not entirely true ,
Mrs. Harrington- . . .how come -in the Town of Queensbury
which has so many people, five people make the decisions
for all- these hundred of thousands of people in the Town
of Queensbury?
Supervisor Walter- How come four hundred -and thtity*ive
people in the house of representatives which I am sure
you stadied about make the decisions for all the billions
and billions of people in the United States? We have
government by representation and that is what we are dealing
with.
Mrs. Harrington-,. You are .working-against the constitution. . .
why won' t yOu give them a chance to speak for themselves?
Supervisor Walter- We are dealing with the Constitution it is
{ not unconstitutional, is there anyone who would like to address
the Board, it is not unconstitutional, it is quite legal.
Mrs. Harrington- . .is there a law I can look up
{ Supervisor Water- it is McKinney' s Town Law and there are
two voiumns .
Mr. Labatore- Is this going to be the only budget hearing?
Supervisor Walter- That is all we need by law.
I
Mr. Morrell- (re: McKinney' s Law) Volumn I deals with Town
law volumn II deals with Highway-
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286
(tape not audible microphone was not used)
Supervisor Walter- we want to give you good Police protection
at approximately half the costa
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Unknown- You say we are getting double coverage from the
State Police, Warren Co. Sheriff right?
4
Supervisor Walter- I am saying we get coverage from all three,
.I am not saying double coverage.
Unknown- How many State Troopers come through here?
Supervisor Walter- I do not have the files from the Justice
Court but we handle—
Unknown- It was my understaddin+he Troopers was the State
Highwaya, Route 9/ Ridge Road
Supervisor Walter- I have had them in my neighborhood. . .
Unknown- I live four doors down and I never see them. . .you
have one that lives . in the area. � .y
Supervisor Walter- The fact of the matter is that that coverage
whether you have it or you do note it -is not going to change.
That is beside the point, why cloud the issue with it. r.
Unknown- . .how come on our tax sheet all the special. dist.
are listed?
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Supervisor Walter- All the districts are listed and you only ,
pay for the ones that you are in.
Mrs. Harringbvn- you are wrong, it is listed so much percent `
of this one and this one and you add it up and you come to
one hundred percent. . .
Supervisor WAlter- I am sorry, but you are only in one water
district you cannot be An a whole lot. . .
Is there anyone else who wishes to address the board if not
I declare the pdblic hearing closed.
RESOLUTIONS
RESOLUTION TO APPROVE A. BINGO LICENSE
h
RESOLUTION NO. 366, introduced by Mr. Olson, who moved its
adoption seconded by Mr. Morrell:
RESOLVED, that Bingo License No. 17025 be and hereby is approved
allowing West Glens Falls Fire Co. No. 1 to hold games of
Bingo from November 6th, 1982 through January 29, 1983 and be
it further
RESOLVED, that incLvea4 one Sunday Bingo Date.
Duly adopted by the following vote:
Ayes : Mr. Olson, Or. Eisenhart, Mr. Morrell, Mrs. Monahan
Mrs. Walter
Noes : None
Absent: None
Supervisor Walter asked if the Board wished to consider the
adoption of the budget, . . .
287
Discussion was held] it was the consensus of the Board
not to take action at this time.
On motion the meeting was adjourned.
j Respectfully,
Donald A. Chase
Town Clerk
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