03-26-2013 (Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 26, 2013
INDEX
Site Plan No. 76-2012 Paul&Margaret Sheehan 1.
FURTHER TABLING Tax Map No. 289.13-1-20
Site Plan No. 10-2013 The Fun Spot 2.
Tax Map No. 296.9-1-1
Site Plan No.9-2013 Erdal Top S.
Tax Map No. 302.5-1-90
Special Use Permit No. 11-2013 Mike Barbone 8.
Tax Map No. 307.-1-29
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTHS MINUTES (IF ANY) AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 26, 2013
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
CHRIS HUNSINGER, CHAIRMAN
DONALD KREBS
BRAD MAGOWAN
STEPHEN TRAVER
DAVID DEEB,ALTERNATE
MEMBERS ABSENT
PAUL SCHONEWOLF
DONALD SIPP
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-MARIA GAGLIARDI
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I'll call to order the meeting of the Town of Queensbury Planning Board on
Tuesday, March 26, 2013. For members of the audience, welcome. There are copies of the agenda
on the back table. There are three items on the agenda that require public hearing. If you wish to
speak during the public hearing, there's also a handout for public hearing procedures, and we'll go
into more detail when we get to the first public hearing.
ADMINISTRATIVE ITEM:
SP 76-2012 PAUL&MARGARET SHEEHAN-FOR FURTHER TABLING CONSIDERATION
MR. HUNSINGER-And do we have any new information?
MRS. MOORE-They have information submitted for April's meeting. So if you table them to April
23rd,that would be acceptable.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
RESOLUTION TABLING SP # 76-2012 PAUL&MARGARET SHEEHAN
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes to demolish existing 1,352 sq. ft. residence and accessory structures and
construct a new 3,950 sq. ft. four bedroom residence. Construction of a dwelling within 50 feet of
15%slopes in a WR zone requires Planning Board review and approval.
The PB made a recommendation to the ZBA on 11/15/2012; the ZBA approved the variance
requests on 12/5/2012;
Type II SEQR-no further action required; No waivers requested;
A public hearing was advertised and held on 12/202012,then tabled to 1/22/13;
The applicant's agent submitted an e-mail requesting to be tabled to 3/26/2013;
The applicant's agent submitted an e-mail requesting to be tabled to an April meeting; revised
information submitted on 3/15/2013;
MOTION TABLE SITE PLAN NO. 76-2012 PAUL &MARGARET SHEEHAN, Introduced by Donald
Krebs who moved for its adoption,seconded by Brad Magowan:
Per the draft provided by Staff. Tabled to the April 23rd Planning Board meeting.
Duly adopted this 25th day of March, 2013,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Deeb, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Hunsinger
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NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp
OLD BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 10-2013 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED THE FUN SPOT AGENT(S) JARRETT
ENGINEERS OWNER(S) ANTHONY FERRARO ZONING CI-COMMERCIAL INTENSIVE
LOCATION 1035 STATE ROUTE 9 SITE PLAN: APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONSTRUCT A
3,529 SQ. FT. ADDITION TO AN EXISTING BUILDING FOR RECONFIGURATION OF THE LASER
TAG/ARCADE AREA OF THE AMUSEMENT CENTER AN TO INCLUDE THREE CLASSROOMS FOR
A FULL DAY-CARE FACILITY. DAY CARE CENTER IN A CI ZONE REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD
REVIEW AND APPROVAL. VARIANCE: RELIEF FROM PARKING REQUIREMENTS. PLANNING
BOARD SHALL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS. CROSS
REFERENCE AV 7-2013, SUP 35-06, AV 42-06, ETC. WARREN CO. REFERRAL MARCH 2013
LOT SIZE 3.51 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 296.9-1-1 SECTION 179-9
TOM JARRETT&JON LAPPER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura,if you want to summarize Staff Notes.
MRS. MOORE-Under Summary. The project is for the addition of 3,529 sq. ft. to an existing
amusement center building to operate a daycare center on the site and to maintain the existing
uses. The site parking area will be reconfigured to assist with traffic flow on the site and to
accommodate daycare drop offs and pickup with a one-way loop. They did receive their ZBA
variance 3/20/2013.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. LAPPER-Good evening, everyone. For the record, Jon Lapper, Keith Ferraro, the project
applicant, and Tom Jarrett the project engineer. With your help last week we went to the Zoning
Board and they granted the variance for parking. So we're back to talk about site plan. We
discussed this in some detail last week, and Keith feels that this is a very compatible use because it's
not peak hour for his other various uses at the center. We did talk about the fact that he has but
doesn't technically need overflow parking next door, but with a friendly agreement with the
existing owners, and we know that from reading in the paper that that site next door is under
contract, but we feel that the peak hour for this certainly for daycare and for his uses will be
different than he's mostly weekends, evenings and afternoons in the summer, but not during lunch
hours. So we feel that, you know, certainly he'll go approach the new owners if that deal comes
together, and we don't see why there'd be a problem, but we don't also see that as, you know, a
technical necessity because the site has been working fine the way it is. The daycare just, again, is a
different peak hour than his other uses. So Keith can answer any questions about his operations
and Tom can answer any questions about the technical site plan,but that's pretty much the story.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I'll open it up for questions,comments from members of the Board.
MR. KREBS-Is the daycare going to be Monday through Friday?
KEITH FERRARO
MR. FERRARO-Yes.
MR. KREBS-Yes. Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean,we talked about the concern about the traffic and the different hours and
different services,so,and we've already looked at that in terms of the lighting is actually going to be
reduced and the stormwater is greater than really what's called for after the revision. So it seems
pretty straightforward.
MR. MAGOWAN-I'm happy with it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Any other comments or questions from the Board? We do have a public
hearing scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wants to address the Board on
this project?
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PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. HUNSINGER-Were there any written comments, Laura?
MRS.MOORE-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I will close the public hearing and let the record show that no comments
were received.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-This is an Unlisted action. I think the applicant submitted a Short Form.
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-So, Don,if you want to do the Short Form.
MR. KREBS-"Does the action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR Part 617.4?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Will the action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted Actions in 6
NYCRR, Part 617.6?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Could the action result in any adverse effects associated with the following: C1.
Existing air quality, surface or ground water quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic
patterns,solid waste production or disposal,potential for erosion,drainage or flooding problems?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, archeological, historic, or other natural or cultural
resources; or community or neighborhood character?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C3. Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or
threatened or endangered species?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C4. A community's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or
intensity of use of land or other natural resources?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"CS. Growth, subsequent development or related activities likely to be induced by the
proposed action?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
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MR. KREBS-"C6. Long term,short term,cumulative or other effects not identified above?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-
MR. KREBS-"C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or energy)?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the
establishment of a Critical Environmental Area?"
MR.HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Is there or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse environmental
impacts?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-I'd like to make a motion for a negative declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 10-2013, Introduced by Donald Krebs who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Stephen Traver:
WHEREAS,there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
THE FUN SPOT,and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW,THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved: NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
S. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern
and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation
of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action
about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the
Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be
necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
Duly adopted this 26th day of, March, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Would anyone like to make a motion for approval? I don't think we had
any waiver requests. Okay.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP# 10-2013 THE FUN SPOT
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following: Site
Plan: Applicant proposes to construct a 3,529 sq. ft. addition to an existing building for
reconfiguration of the laser tag/arcade area of the amusement center and to include three
classrooms for a full day-care facility. Day Care Center in a CI zone requires Planning Board review
and approval. Variance: Relief from parking requirements. Planning Board shall make a
recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Planning Board provided a recommendation to the ZBA on 3/19/2013; the ZBA approved the
variance request on 3/20/2013;
A public hearing was advertised and held on 3/26/2013;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 10-2013 THE FUN SPOT, Introduced by Donald Krebs
who moved for its adoption,seconded by Stephen Traver:
As per resolution prepared by staff with the following conditions:
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080, the
Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in the
Zoning Code;
2) The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered and the
Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
3) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building
and Codes personnel.
4) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
5) Subsequent issuance of further permits,including building permits is dependent on compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution;
6) As-built plans to certify that the site plan is developed according to the approved plans to be
provided prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy;
Duly adopted this 26th day of March 2013,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set. Good luck.
MR. LAPPER-Thank you very much.
NEW BUSINESS:
SITE PLAN NO. 9-2013 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED ERDAL TOP AGENT(S) SHELLI CAMERON
OWNER(S) 3A CHAMBERS, LLC ZONING CI-COMMERCIAL INTENSIVE LOCATION 845
STATE ROUTE 9 APPLICANT PROPOSES A PIZZA BUSINESS. FOOD SERVICE
ESTABLISHMENT IN A CI ZONE REQUIRES PLANNING BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
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CROSS REFERENCE SP 10-99; AV 99-01 WARREN CO. REFERRAL MARCH 2013 LOT SIZE
365.43 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 307.4-29 SECTION 179-10
SHELLI CAMERON, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT; ERDAL TOP, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-The project is a re-use of an existing building for a pizza shop with no site changes.
This is a Type II. No further SEQR review necessary. The applicant is requesting a waiver from
lighting,stormwater,topography,landscaping and district boundaries for the Board to consider.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good evening.
MS. CAMERON-Good evening.
MR. HUNSINGER-If you could identify yourselves for the record,please.
MS. CAMERON-Shelli Cameron.
MR.TOP-Erdal Top.
PAUL CHAMBERS
MR. CHAMBERS-And I'm Paul Chambers.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Do you want to tell us about your project?
MS. CAMERON-Mr. Top plans to open a pizza delivery business. (lost word) small tables for eat-in
at the current location, 845 State Route 9. It was a hair salon and The Fireplace Company prior to
that. So we're not, he's not changing anything other than a few things inside, a handicap accessible
bathroom, and then a fire hood over the grills. We did meet with the Fire Marshal and Dave Hatin
out there just to see what changes would need to be made, and that's what they suggested. So no
changes to the exterior of the building at all.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Anything else?
MS. CAMERON-I don't think so.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Questions,comments from members of the Board?
MR. KREBS-I'd just make the comment that it's going to be pizza road.
MS. CAMERON-I know.
MR. DEEB-Mr. Top, you're not afraid of competition, I see, a brave sole to go into this business.
Wow. This is mostly delivery, I assume?
MS. CAMERON-Mostly deliver,yes. He's going to have three tables seating, it'll seat up to 12 people
total.
MR. DEEB-Okay.
MR. HUNSINGER-How many delivery cars do you think you'll have?
MS. CAMERON-Two.
MR. HUNSINGER-Two?
MR. DEEB-They'll be busy.
MR. HUNSINGER-No other questions or comments from the Board? We do have a public hearing
scheduled this evening. Is there anyone in the audience that wants to address the Board on this
project?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
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MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I don't see any hands. Any written comments, Laura?
MRS. MOORE-I do have a written comment. It's a record of a phone conversation. This is caller
was Shirley Freeman who lives at 4 Greenway Circle. Planning Staff explained to Ms. Freeman
details as outlined in the applicant's narrative - She is in favor of the project but not if they will be
serving alcoholic beverages.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MS. CAMERON-No alcohol.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. No takers for the public hearing. Then I will close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-It's a Type II SEQR. So no SEQR review is required,unless there's an issue that we
identify,and with that.
MR.TRAVER-On the agenda it's listed as Unlisted.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. It says on the agenda Unlisted,but on the application it says Type II.
MR.TRAVER-Type II,yes.
MRS. MOORE-They did complete one if you want to go through with it. I do have a SEQR form here.
It's a re-use of an existing building,and in SEQR that is a Type II,but that's up to you. It doesn't hurt
the applicant to do it or not do it.
MR.TRAVER-Well,if it's a Type II,probably not.
MRS.MOORE-Well,you can remove that information from the resolution.
MR. KREBS-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-It was on the resolution as well.
MRS.MOORE-Item Number Two.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. All right.
RESOLUTION APPROVING SP #9-2013 ERDAL TOP
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes a pizza business. Food Service Establishment in a CI zone requires Planning
Board review and approval.
A public hearing was advertised and held on 3/26/2013;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO APPROVE SITE PLAN NO. 9-2013 ERDAL TOP, Introduced by Donald Krebs who
moved for its adoption,seconded by Brad Magowan:
As per the resolution prepared by staff with the following conditions:
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080,
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in
the Zoning Code;
2) SEQR-revised to Type II,no determination needed;
3) Waiver requests granted: lighting, stormwater, topography, landscaping & district
boundaries;
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4) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning
Administrator or Building and Codes personnel.
5) The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
6) Subsequent issuance of further permits, including building permits is dependent on
compliance with this and all other conditions of this resolution.
Duly adopted this 26th day of March, 2013,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Magowan, Mr. Krebs, Mr.Traver, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-You're all set. Good luck.
MS. CAMERON-Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, thank you.
SPECIAL USE PERMIT NO. 11-2013 SEQR TYPE UNLISTED MIKE BARBONE AGENT(S) SKI
WEST MOUNTAIN OWNER(S) EAST SLOPE HOLDING, L.P. ZONING RC-RECREATION
COMMERCIAL LOCATION 59 WEST MOUNTAIN ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES SINGLE AND
MULTI-DAY MUSIC FESTIVAL WITH OUTDOOR CONCERT, FOOD & MERCHANDISE, VENDORS
AND CAMPING. AN OUTDOOR CONCERT EVENT IN THE RC ZONE REQUIRES PLANNING
BOARD REVIEW AND APPROVAL. CROSS REFERENCE SUP 72-12, SP 34-11, SP 61-11, SP 22-
08, AV 92-02, SP 4-97, SP 3-97, SP 65-96, SP 67-96, SEVERAL BP'S WARREN CO. REFERRAL
MARCH 2013 APA, CEA, OTHER RUSH POND CEA, STREAM OVERLAY LOT SIZE 365.43
ACRES TAX MAP NO. 307.4-29 SECTION 179-10
SUE PARKER, REPRESENTING APPLICANT, PRESENT; MIKE BARBONE, PRESENT
MR. HUNSINGER-Laura?
MRS. MOORE-Under Summary Remarks: The Planning Board is to review a proposed project to
utilize a portion of West Mountain for the off-season use of single day and multi day events. The
events may or not be musical events but will have food vendors other associated vendors and
camping. The applicant has explained that the times have not been determined as the facility is not
actively seeking promoters or events; site permission is requested by event promoters who will
then contract with West Mountain once the venue has been identified. This could be every
weekend from June thru October or once a month during the off season -operation dates are not
clear. The Board should confirm if applicant is requiring participating vendors to be obtain
individual transient merchant licenses or if the applicant will be applying for the transient
merchant license as a whole. Clarification of operational hours should be addressed so any event
that is anticipated may open or close between the hours identified. The Code identifies Outdoor
Concert events so that no activity occurs between 11:00 pm to 7:00 am. Discussion should also
address the number of vehicles or patrons to the event as the area of usage is only a portion of the
entire site -similarly the County requested additional information related to the number to be in
attendance. If the Board is considering approval then the Board should also discuss conditions such
as timeframes for information to be submitted prior to the start of an event i.e. DOH sign-off,
promoter contract, safety contract, sanitation, liquor/beer permits, public notification or other
items.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Good evening.
MR. BARBONE-Good evening. Mike Barbone.
MS. PARKER-Sue Parker.
MR. HUNSINGER-Did you want to tell us what you're planning,what your project is?
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MS. PARKER-Yes, gentlemen. We are before you. It's been, what, a little more than six months
since the last time we came here. Happy Spring. We're excited in many ways. We certainly would
love, at your request and the Town's request, to come forward to you seeking this permit for a
number of years so we're able to do this the correct way,the proper way and get all of our ducks in
a row so that we can go forward and seek contracts from festival planners seeking multi-day
festivals as well as some single day events, certainly to augment our business on the west side of
Queensbury.
MR.HUNSINGER-Anything else?
MS. PARKER-We certainly have provided a full packet, full description. We're certainly able to
answer any questions that anyone has.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Great. I'll open it up for questions,comments from the Board.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. As I looked through this, I guess I'm perhaps needing some clarification either
from yourself,Mr. Chairman,or from Staff. But is this basically a, if approved,we're basically giving
them a blanket permit to conduct these events and they contact vendors and decide what type of
event and,or would we be reviewing the events as they are planned,as they're scheduled?
MR. HUNSINGER-I guess that's a really a question of the applicant.
MR.TRAVER-Yes.
MS.PARKER-Most promoters come to us with the event planned.
MR.TRAVER-Right.
MS. PARKER-They come to us with the band line up. They come to us with the vendors that they
are going to procure, with the, even the food vendors that tend to follow that festival around if you
will.
MR.TRAVER-Sure. Well,thank you for that,and I'm familiar with the process that we went through
the last time and we did talk about the type of music and the hours and things like that. So what
you're proposing would be a similar process,then,going forward,that as a specific event was being
scheduled we would have an opportunity to discuss with you that event and its potential impact on
the community and perhaps make conditions for the hours of the music or whether it's indoors or
outdoors,that type of thing?
MR. BARBONE-I think what we're looking for is a blanket permit so that we can go out and sell any
event. To come back to the Board and to take another two months or a month to try to get onto the
agenda for that party that wants to come and have an event, say in July,we should have come in in
January for July. Now we'll go out today, if we get approved, and anybody that comes, we will have
the approval to do any event from now until the day you tell us not to do it. To all of a sudden go
out and try to sell something, we can't go out and sell it. The vendor wants to know we have the
permit,we have the process. They won't even look at us. They'll go elsewhere.
MS. PARKER-And also with that,we have no problem coming back to you with the copies of permits
that you need, the liquor authority permit, we work closely with the Fire Marshal for inspections.
We have, as you see in your packet, applied for our permit for camping from the Department of
Health. I mean, we've done what we had been instructed by the Town to dot our I's, cross our T's
and have everything in play. We're literally waiting for a approvals,you know, thinking positively,
for these, so that Mr. Barbone is exactly right, so that we can, therefore, go forward and market.
We can't market it without the permit.
MR. BARBONE-The liquor license won't even look at you until one month prior to the event.
MR. DEEB-So how far in advance do you schedule these events?
MR. BARBONE-Well, yes, these guys are already starting, we should have done this last year
because we've lost a lot, because one year ago they were already looking at our site, and we lost a
bunch. So we're trying not to get into that. Last year we had a promoter come two weeks prior to
the day of the event because they heard to come to us because we had the facilities. We couldn't do
it.
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MS. PARKER-But the good news on that, gentlemen, is that once you get something set, like say
whatever X, Y, Z festival, tends to be on the June summer solstice every year. So the good news is
from your standpoint as well unless there are new ones coming in,you know, and certainly banging
at our door,these events will tend to be on an annual basis. They look for the venue. They like the
venue. They like the easy access off the Exit 18 corridor. They like the hotels, they like, you know,
the shops,the markets,the Subway's down the road. We're just the perfect host for that as well.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I understand. The difficulty I guess for me, and obviously I can't speak for the
rest of the Board,but,you know,there's a big variety in music and events. The different events that
you've had, I know at least in terms of the type of music,were quite different. We had a discussion,
and you planned accordingly. The two events were quite different in how they were conducted,and
I can certainly understand, although I wasn't clear about the liquor license. Don't you have a liquor
license already?
MR. BARBONE-It's an indoor liquor license. It's not an outdoor license.
MS. PARKER-If we set up a beer tent,we need an additional license.
MR.TRAVER-I see. So you didn't have one,the event you just had last Fall, I guess it was.
MR. BARBONE-No,we sold beer inside.
MR.TRAVER-Inside?
MS. PARKER-Yes,we sold beer inside. We had a beer tent as well. We had a liquor license.
MR. TRAVER-I see. Well, I don't know. I mean, I guess I'm, it sounds like we might need to come up
with a better solution might be some process where, I mean, maybe we could approve some
aspects of it,but I don't know how comfortable I,personally,would be giving a blanket approval for.
MR. BARBONE-This is why, what had happened last summer when they looked at me because I
didn't go for a permit. This is what's going on. How do we approve five events of the unknown? I
don't know.
MR. TRAVER-We don't generally approve things that are unknown. That's, I guess,the problem. If
you know what you're planning on doing,you know the type of music and the hours and how many
bands is it going to be, you know, all the things that we talked about when we did the review last
time went, I thought,quite well. That's fine.
MR. BARBONE-Well, I understand that.
MR.TRAVER-To approve the unknown is, I hope you appreciate,instinctively difficult for us.
MR. BARB ONE-Absolutely.
MS. PARKER-And from our standpoint, if this process, was, did not take three months at a time, I'd
be up for it,too, and, you know, maybe that's a question that needs to actually go back to the Town
versus the Zoning. Maybe use differences in the Special Use Permit application, etc., you know, to
facilitate this. I mean, it's taken three months. I called numerous times to Craig Brown's office to
not have phone calls returned to think I was in for the February meeting, to then find out I wasn't,
to then think I was in for the March meeting, to then realize that I'm put off now to the April
meeting. So we've already been working on this now for three,four months.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I can certainly appreciate that. I mean, there is a process involved. It definitely
can be lengthy,particularly if you get on.
MS. PARKER-That's the reason for us asking for this. Because I don't know if we could do this,
again,people would lose business.
MR. MAGOWAN-I see what you're trying to grab, you know, is basically getting an okay from the
Town to be able to hold events to your facility. Then, on the other hand I understand our position
as saying, so, and I don't know how, or if there's anything that, you know, on the books to say that,
you know, we give you like an approval to have these events, but to get the final, to get issued a
permit from the Town of Queensbury it needs to be reviewed to make sure everything is,and that's,
and then we get into the time factor here which I can understand is very frustrating.
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MR. KREBS-I mean, I think if you ask them to come back for approval every time,you might just as
well not give them any approval at all because it just isn't going to work. I mean,that would be like
when I was in the furniture business, if I couldn't order the furniture that took six months to get
here until 30 days before, I'd go out of business,okay.
MR.TRAVER-Right,but you knew what furniture you wanted six months in advance. Right? So you
could at least know you were getting a furniture of a particular type.
MR.KREBS-Yes.
MR. TRAVER-Well, they're coming before us without knowing what kind of event they're going to
have. That's the problem.
MR. KREBS-Yes,but the thing is, I think, my opinion, is that Mike came to us before, and Ms. Parker,
and they said we will control the level of the music. We won't use the electronic amplification
factor, and they ran an event which I don't believe there were any complaints to the Town about.
So, I mean, my feeling is I would like to see us give them a year, and if we have problems after that
year,then we won't be renewing it,but if we give him a year, I don't see how he can possibly do this
if he has to come to the Board for approval and it's going to take 60 to 90 days every time. The
events won't happen.
MR. MAGOWAN-Yes, it's easier just to hand in your paperwork and say, look, we've got our traffic
study, we have this, this is the event, and then if it becomes, you know, an issue with the Craig
Brown and that,he could sneak you in quickly in front of us.
MR. BARBONE-I think what's happening is we're trying to make the guidelines for something that
it's not. There is no application for an event. We are filling out an application for site plan review.
Now if there was an application that we came every month and filled out that application,
submitted it and you handed it to us and stamped it and said, okay, go get your event, there is
nothing in that (lost word). We have to fill out site plan review, make 14 copies. This is without
even going out and selling. We've already spent the money. We've done our time, we did our
diligence. You're asking us to go get a liquor license we can't do. Health Department wants a date,
we can't,they won't even look at us, and then you want us to go out and try to sell the event. It just
doesn't,folks,it just does not work.
MS. PARKER-The funny thing to this is last year when we went through the bad part of all this, we
are, again,acting on the advice of Craig Brown who told us to submit it this way to you. Submit for
three to five years. We've done everything you guys have asked us to do. Different people find
different positions. One person says this, the next person says, oh, you need that. We are doing
exactly what we've been instructed to do.
MR. TRAVER-No, I understand, and I agree, it certainly is a different situation in terms of the
application, and to echo Don's comment before, I thought that when you had the event that we
talked about earlier,that's exactly the concern that I had. You presented us with the information of
your intent to run the event and the promoter's intent, and we found in that discussion that we
wanted to make some changes in the way that event occurred, and we had the opportunity to do
that, and it came, it went well, and we're giving up that ability to do that if we grant a multi-year.
Can you understand that aspect of it?
MR. BARBONE-I can.
MR. TRAVER-On the other hand, there are certainly aspects of this that we can approve, I think,
because we know the traffic is going to be the traffic. We know the parking is going to be the
parking, and I'm not saying that I necessarily have a solution here,but I think the issue for us is not
the entire, all of the issues involved with a hypothetical event at your facility. I think you've
demonstrated that you can do that, that the physical plan and so on is there and all the rest of it. I
think it's relatively specific issues to a particular vendor, and frankly I'm surprised this time of year
you would find a vendor that would not already be booked somewhere else. I'm amazed that you
would find a promoter who would say,yes,you know, I haven't done anything, or prepared for next
summer.
MR. BARBONE-We're telling you we already lost some.
MR. DEEB-If I may, I need to go back to, is there a way that you could solicit these concerts or events
say a year ahead of time,to know what you are going to do?
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MS. PARKER-If we have the permit.
MR. BARBONE-They won't even look at us. I'm telling you.
MR. DEEB-Without a permit they won't.
MR. BARBONE-These promoters are going to put out$25, $30, $40,000 on bands, all kinds of stuff,
and if you think that they're going to put$50,000 on the line and we're going to come through here
and all of a sudden something changes,I bet you that they will not agree on it.
MR. DEEB-Another aspect,then,you say you cannot get a liquor license or the Department of Health
approval until you have something scheduled.
MR. BARBONE-That's correct.
MR. DEEB-How far in advance do that they have to be notified?
MS. PARKER-Thirty days.
MR. BARBONE-Thirty days.
MR. DEEB-So if you have something lined up,you'll be able to get to them first,to get them in.
MS. PARKER-We will, and unbeknownst to us, which is fine. We have applied, in your packet you
see we have applied for the camping permit, because apparently even if we have the boy scouts
over,okay,we applied.
MR. DEEB-That's a difficult situation,just a really difficult situation.
MR.TRAVER-How far in advance would you know the specifics of the promoter and what they were
proposing to hold at your event?
MS. PARKER-They would like a minimum 90 to 120 days in order for them to advertise and get
their supporters,you know,following them,the social media,the fliers, etc.
MR.TRAVER-Okay. So if you were to get some kind of conditional approval,pending a final review
of the, what would we call it, the actual promoter or the specific plans for the event, and you were
able to get that review conducted within three months of your event, you would be okay. If we
eliminated the larger issues of the parking and the facility and if we were just talking about noise.
MS. PARKER-I wonder, provided, here's the big if on that, and we're happy to provide you any
information at any time. The biggest issue is getting on this docket,getting before you. It just takes
too long to get before you.
MR. KREBS-It's my personal opinion that Mike runs a good business. He's a responsible
businessman. I think we should give him a year's approval and then at the end of that year, if you
don't want to approve it again for some reason, we can not do it, but he is going to want to make
sure that these concerts are run properly. If you remember last time he was there 24 hours a day,
and I think we need to give him, because the mechanism in the government is hindering his
potential to have a business that's profitable.
MR. TRAVER-But I think we have some latitude, Don. I think we can accommodate that, and let's
face it,it's probably only going to be for the first year. As he pointed out,when these things go well,
it's probably going to be something that recurs,like the sales that we have at the Million Dollar Half
Mile. They're going to come in year after year after year. The issue is how do we get through this
first cycle to establish this business model that he needs where,you know, Memorial Day,whatever
it is, Fourth of July, on these regular type things, he does the thing, and because he doesn't know, I
think that, I mean, I'm certainly willing to do whatever we can to try to accommodate and still
conduct a review of these events in this first cycle, and understand that it may be unusual or have
an extra,you know, item on the agenda somehow get him,you know, outside of the normal process,
but I don't see why we can't accommodate that. I think that's much better than accommodating
things the other way where, because I understand, he certainly is responsible. I agree with you
there. He runs a fine business. We're lucky to have him in the community, but we're dealing with
outside parties here as well, and we did find, you know, the history has been that they've done a
good job running their event but the event did benefit significantly from our input, and not on a
huge range of issues,but on a few that were significant for the community, and I don't see why we
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
can't accommodate that. I don't see why we have to be, you know, why we can't get him on the
schedule within three months of when he wants to have this event somehow, even if it's an extra
agenda item or something, to accommodate this one cycle, anticipating that this is going to become
an annual event. I mean,that's the least we can do.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, how do we promise him that a promoter can come, you know, that in our
special roundabout permit that we have to come up with that will entice a promoter to want to
come to West Mountain without feeling that he has to go through this process?
MR. BARBONE-It's kind of interesting. I'm on the tourism roundtable, and it's all about business,
and here we are, this is a company that's bringing in business, tourism, sales tax, a lot of sales tax I
put in. I'm probably the largest sales tax person, I'm sure of it, the largest employer, and we
probably put over 100,000 skier visits in three months. Now, if you don't think that I don't know
how to run something, I don't understand where we're all going from here. I think I could walk out
tomorrow, get a phone call, about an event that they want to do in three weeks. What do we do?
You say I've got to turn it down, turn my money down. I can't make money? I don't understand
where we're all going with this, but what we're all saying is where do we go from here? I was told
to come here and to put 10 events in front of you because we shouldn't have to come back for every
event which takes three to six months to get an approval. I cannot run any business to put that
together.
MS. PARKER-In one year, when you think about this, gentlemen, one year from today, if we get
approval for one year, that still gives us a short,we've already lost some events this summer. That
give us only a short amount of booking time for the few events that we'll potentially may be able to
get for this summer, and if someone already says,I'm loving it,July, I'm loving it. Can I come back a
year from now, can I book it? I still can't book it because I don't have approval from here. Even 18
months gives us two summers to market it, if that makes sense to you guys. It's already we're like,
oh,but we've got to start the whole process again.
MR.HUNSINGER-Well, I mean, I think the challenge for us this evening, and I mean I had a couple of
questions. I wanted to hear from other members of the Board first, but, you know, I think the
challenge for us this evening is to find some parameters, you know, and that's really what we did
with The Great Escape,you know,The Great Escape was coming every year and asking for new ride
and new ride and new ride, and we'd have the room filled with people, neighbors who were
concerned, noise levels,traffic,you know, and we finally said,you know,you need to do,you know,
a master plan, and I think that's kind of what we need to do with West Mountain is, you know,
establish some parameters, and then within the parameters you have the knowledge of knowing,
hey, as long as we don't exceed one of these parameters,we can go ahead and book the event, and
then,you know,the community also has the comfort of knowing,hey,you know,you're not going to
have more than X number of people. You're not going to be open these hours during the evening or
whatever those parameters are, and I think one of the problems that we have in the current
application, some of them are highlighted, really, in the County Planning notes, you know. I think
your venue will be wildly popular. I think people want to go there. What's to stop that, what's to
stop there from being a huge crowd? And I think those are some of the things that the County
Planning discussion is sort of leading to. What's the limit on the number of attendees? What's the
limit on the parking? What happens if the parking lot overflows and we suddenly have gridlock on
West Mountain Road? I think those are the kinds of things that,you know,the community needs to
feel comfortable with.
MS. PARKER-Absolutely.
MR. HUNSINGER-And I didn't really see those details in your application. So, that's what I kind of
came prepared to talk about this evening.
MR. BARBONE-I still don't know how to pull out the crystal ball and figure out how many people are
going to get to the event? Is it going to rain at that event? Is it going to be nice? It is. It's tough for
the whole process to pull out the crystal ball and try to figure out on that day event, will it rain?
Will it not rain? Is it going to be nice?
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, clearly, one of the ways that you can limit the size of the crowd is through
the ticket sales. So, I mean,if you know the parking lot can only hold,you know,X number of cars.
MS. PARKER-And again we have this secondary parking lot.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
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MS. PARKER-So we certainly have the ability(lost words).
MR. BARBONE-And what about the fireworks, if we have fireworks? You guys know what happens
when you have free fireworks.
MR. HUNSINGER-Everybody wants to see them.
MS. PARKER-A lot of people that are coming through our parking lot are not paying us.
MR. BARBONE-It is. It's going to be a tough go with all of it. It's just,you know,we've had Summer
Jams at West Mountain for many, many years. Probably everybody knows, and they were
successful. There was never any problems. We've cleaned up after the show, and the show went
on.
MS.PARKER-To my knowledge,am I correct,gentlemen,that once,and God bless us if we get this to
this point, if it's 5,000 attendees, that's a mass gathering permit. That's a whole other set of rules
and ball of wax. So,you know, I certainly don't anticipate that,but in two,three, four years,I would
love it, and you know, then it would be orderly. You would have to bring in, I worked on the
volunteer committee for the centurion cycling. I remember those meetings with the DOT, with the,
certainly able to facilitate those needs as well, and those type of meetings, should we have pre-
ticket sales,etc.,leading to that.
MR. HUNSINGER-How did the event go in October? I know the weather was really bad that
weekend.
MR. BARBONE-Yes, you know, the promoter put up all this money, and it rains and 200 people
show, 200.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. BARBONE-So what do we do then? I mean,we've got a stake in it,too.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. BARBONE-I mean,we put a lot on the stake, and we get 200 people. How do you predict how
many people? Let's say the ski business. You guys try to put a number on the ski business, how
many skier visits are we going to allow? We get five feet of snow, are we going to stop the gate?
It's tough to say, you know, we don't get any snow, nobody comes, we go bankrupt. This is where
we're going.
MR. DEEB-I don't know if this is the time to do this. I'd like to address a couple of specifics. Do you
know approximately how many events you're looking to put on? Because from what I can see,you
didn't really list a specific number.
MR. BARBONE-The Board told us to put down the maximum amount of events and get them
approved.
MS. PARKER-I can address that, sir. We hope to have five to six off season on multi-day, and then
we hope to have approximately six to eight single day events, per summer season, between May
and October.
MR. DEEB-Okay, and that was the other question. You're going to end in October.
MS.PARKER-Yes.
MR. DEEB-We'll be making snow.
MS. PARKER-Getting ready for ski season.
MR. DEEB-And so you're saying basically May through October is what you're looking at.
MR. BARBONE-That is correct.
MS. PARKER-And some of the multi-day,you know, five or six per season, maybe it's just one night,
you know, maybe it's, you know, a Saturday night stay over kind of thing only. Maybe another
one's going to be in on a Friday,out on a Sunday,that kind of thing. We don't want to have anything
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
go mid-week, you know, we know we have a working community around us. Even if it is summer
and kids are off, we still understand people still have to get up on Monday morning and go about
their business. So our goal is to have everything cleaned up and that's cleanup day, if you will.
Everyone enjoys your weekend,but Monday we're back to business.
MR. DEEB-So your multi-day would be two days?
MS. PARKER-Two,three at the tops,you know, Friday, Saturday and out on Sunday.
MR. BARBONE-Probably would be like a Friday afternoon, Saturday. They usually come in and like
to get set up for your Friday,and then have Saturday.
MR. DEEB-And you're looking for how many of those,five to six?
MS. PARKER-Five to six per season. Yes, I mean, if we could do one a month,you know, May, June,
July, August, September, October, would be wonderful, you know, one a month, or maybe two in
August and none in September. We don't know.
MR. BARBONE-What we want to do is we want to go for the max. Who knows, maybe we'll only
have one this summer, because we're just starting off, but we'd just like to see to be able to go out
there and sell, go to the tourism and say this is what we've got, you know, it's a long term for
everybody.
MS. PARKER-We're certainly paid members of Saratoga Chamber, Adirondack Chamber, Lake
George Chamber. They have conventioning visiting people all over. We'd like to host that big
convention, you know, off site fun day, you know, that are already coming and have a day event
there,but again, full circle, if we don't have this in place,we can't possibly even entertain these type
of corporate events.
MR. BARBONE-We can't go after Americade. We can't go after the Fireman's Parade. We cannot
touch it.
MS. PARKER-We can't put the Glens Falls Symphony on our lawn, even if we chose classical music.
We wouldn't be able to do that without this. We couldn't do jazz.
MR. HUNSINGER-How did you used to do the Fourth of July event?
MR. BARBONE-We just did it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Oh,okay.
MS. PARKER-And that's what flabbergast me. I mean, all of a sudden this, and this and this is
required and we were just, whoa. Maybe that was in place years ago, but not to my knowledge. It
was before my time.
MR. HUNSINGER-No,I asked questions, I mean,I've been on the Planning Board since 2000.
MR. BARBONE-It was just there's no, I mean, there was no application. They came to us and we
just did it, and we've always done that until prior to last year. We were asked that we had to come
forth and apply for a Site Plan Review.
MS.PARKER-Otherwise we were threatened with a cease and desist letter.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-Well, I still think the solution is, I mean, basically, and you had talked about this one
other time when you were before us. In a way you're sort of changing your business model from
being just a ski center,to wanting to have year round events, and that makes it unusual, and I think
that if we can accommodate this first cycle of these events somehow,that you can get into a regular
cycle. I mean,if you get a temporary permit,which I think is all you're going to be able to get,we're
going to be right back where we started from next year. I think the solution is to come up with a
long term solution, not a short term,blanket approval and then,you know, if there are any issues or
something,we're going to have a bigger problem than we have now. I think the solution is to come
up with some way to work with you and you with us, that we can give approval to some of the
larger issues with some parameters,and then do a much simpler review of the very specific items of
the actual events as you become aware of them,as you have them in mind,and I don't see,if you can
15
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
do 120 days or 90 days advanced notice, I don't see why we can't accommodate that. It wouldn't be
a lengthy process. That's my feeling.
MR. KREBS-But I think that's what they're saying is they can't necessarily give you 90 days.
MR. BARBONE-I'd rather walk away from tonight's meeting and say I've tried my best, and then
leave it alone. You're asking us, not us,we're asking a company that's been here since 1961, that's
done events after events after events. We have a ski business, three months. We put about nine
million dollars back into the economy every year. This isn't somebody new that just came out from
some place, a new venue that we've got to put new buildings up, all kinds of stuff. What we're
asking for is because it's not snowing every year, as everybody is aware, we've got to supplement
the ski business. So, how are we going to do that? Let's bring in some events and see if we can
make some money. It's not even guaranteed. I mean,we could go through this whole process and
rain on five of the events out of the ten. I just, I just don't know how we're going to leave this room
tonight and figure out how West Mountain is going to exist on the winters that we're having, and
how we're going to make some money,make some money.
MS. PARKER-Plus from a Queensbury business standpoint, if your fastfood chains and your hotels
were only in business and stood before you and said we can only make money, we can only make
optimum revenues between the months of December and April,would they survive? So we're one
of the few that really have noticed that and have taken that to heart. Thus we're looking for other
ways to augment and fulfill our season.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other questions,comments from the Board?
MR. KREBS-Well,what I would like to propose is that we give them a temporary permit from March
26, 2013 to October 31, 2014, and then have them come back after October 2014, and we will know
if there's any problems. We'll know what the problems are. One of the problems I have with what
we're asking them to do is that we do not have any rules and regulations in the zoning that really
apply to this kind of an activity, and we really should be going back to the Town Board and saying,
Town Board, you need to create a set of regulations for this type of activity, because right now I
could understand,you can't wait until 30 days before. If I were a promoter.
MR. MAGOWAN-He needs that permit now so he can move forward, period. There's no ands, ifs or
buts.
MR. KREBS-Exactly.
MS. PARKER-But we're full in agreement on the Town's law. There is no noise ordinance.
MR. BARBONE-It's not Queensbury doesn't have any Code enforcers, they don't have a Fire
Marshal. I'm sure the day of the event, I'm sure Queensbury has the power, as I've seen,to throw an
injunction on me. I mean, it's not forbidden if something like that bad goes on, to say that we're
going to all of a sudden just go rampant because we have a permit. I mean, that's why, I just can't
understand that if we did something out of the ordinary, and brought 20,000 people to West
Mountain, oh my gosh, that the Town of Queensbury would not show up at my door the next day
and shut me down. They've done it when I did the drag cars. They've done it for everything that I
tried to do at West Mountain,visited me and they shut me down. So what are we standing here to
say give me 10 permits? Is it really warranted because Queensbury could shut me down tomorrow.
MS. PARKER-But at least we will have gone through the proper steps. We're not circumventing the
system. We're looking to work with the Town of Queensbury.
MR. KREBS-And in a sense it's just like some of the other events. Americade. We don't regulate
how many motorcycles can come through the Town of Queensbury during that time period. At the
Balloon Festival,we don't regulate how many balloons can come.
MS. PARKER-Zonta doesn't even need a transient merchant permit because the County trumps
them.
MR. KREBS-Right.
MS. PARKER-I mean, I've already looked into this. Can I see this permit? They don't need it
because they don't need permit. We missed the West Glens Falls Fire Department. They have a
mass gathering permit in place. We missed that because we didn't have permits in place. They
would love to work with us,but we're really sorry,you don't have permits in place. We couldn't get
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
(lost words) so here we are before you. We missed that one, and the theme,which is ironic, is best
of the west.
MR. BARBONE-Why can't we say we get inspected the day before the event starts to ensure
everything's proper? I mean, the way they come in on my business. On opening day of my ski
business, if I don't comply,they shut me down. The State does it with my chairlifts come in the day
before,if I don't comply,they shut me down.
MR. MAGOWAN-Now, Mike,you have a set of the guidelines that we set up for the last promotion.
MR. BARBONE-Correct.
MR. MAGOWAN-Can we, you know, draft them as a guideline for him to follow for this, you know,
this six or,you know,seven month permit? Is it six months?
MR.KREBS-It's going to be a year.
MR. MAGOWAN-A year.
MR. KREBS-Well, it's going to be over a year, because he really needs to have the permit now and if
he's going to book anybody back for another venue next year he's got to have approval now, and
some people won't even come the first year if they can't have a two year event.
MS.PARKER-Correct.
MR.MAGOWAN-And I don't have a problem with that. I would really like to see Mike make a.
MR. KREBS-We'll start it today, and we'll end it October 31, 2014, which then allows them to come
back to us in November or December of'14 and get either a permanent permit or whatever else we
want to do at that point.
MR. BARBONE-And it'll give us an opportunity to host or to tell somebody that wants to bring one
of these mud things together or something real big to come in forward next year and say can we get
that permit for the following year. I mean, it makes a lot of sense to try to go that way and then try
to.
MR. TRAVER-You have that ability now. You can get a permit this year for the following year. You
can do that now. What we're talking about is this initial site,that's what I'm talking about.
MR. BARBONE-We can't book one date. I'm telling you, I will leave this room today saying, I won't.
The energy that goes into it,there's not an application that I can walk into the Town of Queensbury
for an event. It's a plan review and you've got to make,you know,three meetings.
MS.PARKER-Man hours.
MR. BARBONE-It's just incredible.
MS. PARKER-Three people working on it, numerous calls back,yet more calls back, now I'd like you
to add this,now I'd like you to address that. Okay,another form,another sets of copies. I know you
gentlemen go home with a barrage of reading materials.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well,you both know what we want.
MS. PARKER-Yes.
MR. MAGOWAN-And you know what we're going to allow. You know what the Town of
Queensbury's going to do and you know how we could shut you down.
MR. BARBONE-The question would be is that we're dealing with three people, very important
people, Queensbury, liquor license, they don't play games at all, and now we're with the health
department. Mess around with them and see what happens. So it's not like we're just going out
there and just, you know, selling the liquor without a liquor permit, you know, I just, we have
everything in place,let us go out and try to make some business. That's all that we're saying.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, we do have a public hearing scheduled this evening, and I imagine there's
some people who want to address the Board. Could I get a raise of hands for people that wish to
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
address the Board? Okay. As I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, the purpose of the
public hearing is for neighbors and concerned residents to provide comments to the Board. I would
ask anyone that wishes to speak this evening to address any of their comments or questions to the
Board. If you have a specific question, obviously it'll be heard and we'll ask the applicant to answer
your question. I would ask anyone who addresses the Board to identify themselves for the record.
We do tape the meeting, and the tape is used to transcribe the minutes. So please speak clearly
into the microphone. Based on the show of hands, I don't think we need to limit the timeframe,but
I would like to try to keep comments to new topics. Clearly a lot of you will have the same concern.
A lot of the concerns have already been raised by the Board. So to the extent possible, if you could
provide new comments. So who would like to be first? Yes,sir. Good evening.
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
DON SLATER
MR. SLATER-Good evening. My name is Don Slater and I live on Founders Way, so you can guess
why I'm here. I have a written statement here or commentary. It's not long. So it'll be brief.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MR. SLATER-I'm extremely concerned about the proposed changes that are being sought after at
the West Mountain Ski area. I live on Founders Way, as I said, in an area that is close to the
entrance of the ski area, and while I firmly believe that everyone has a right to earn an honest
dollar, I believe it is unfair to allow one's enterprise to be detrimental to the well-being of other
individuals. I'm afraid that is what is being suggested by expanding the use of the ski area to
include the type of entertainment described in the legal notifications that I received from the
Planning Board. For years my wife and I lived in a suburb located very close to New York City, and
as you can well imagine the sounds of the City did not lend themselves to creating a peaceful
environment. In large part one of the reasons we re-settled to this area was our desire to have a
peaceful, quiet life. To date we've not been disappointed. That being said, I think it is
understandable that we are fearful that our world is going to dramatically change with the advent
of loud music and noisy crowds making camp only a few hundred yards from our home over a
period of six months, and every day (lost word) scheduling 14 to 20 days for these events is
definitely a game changer. In addition to my quality of life concerns, I also have a major worry
regarding the negative impact the expanded use of this site will have on the ability to sell my house
when I get ready to do so. You don't have to be Donald Trump to know that regular rock concerts
taking place in the neighborhood are going to seriously discourage people from considering the
purchase of a home in that area. I know that I would not have settled in my present location if I had
initially known that amusement park conditions were scheduled to occur around the corner. I
expect many people in the area would feel the same. So finally although I may be but a small voice
in the wilderness, I do hope you hear that voice and seriously consider rejecting the request that
was submitted as proposed from the West Mountain Ski area. Someone a long time ago said a
person's home is his or her castle. It was true then and it is true today, and I ask that you are
sensitive to the needs of those of us who reside in the neighborhoods that are in the vicinity of the
ski area. Thank you very much.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Yes,sir.
FRED SCIALABBA
DR. SCIALABBA-My name is Fred Scialabba. I live on Honey Hollow Road and I've lived there for
the past 20 years. I've lived through the Summer Jams, and I've lived through a lot of concerts and
events at West Mountain, and what I'm concerned about is the fact that as far as I'm concerned we
live in a residentially zoned area. It is not commercial. There's a ski area that is open for skiing and
there's no problem with that. On the weekends when I'm at home trying to have some solitude and
some peace and quiet, I have to put up with jet skis and snowmobile races that take place at West
Mountain on a regular basis on the weekends. Contrary to a statement that was made earlier, after
the events last year I did personally speak to Mr. Stec and complained about the noise that went on
beyond 11 o'clock on a Sunday night, and it's more so than noise, it's percussion rather than rock
music which shakes the windows in our homes, and makes it impossible to fall asleep for those of
who have to go to work at 5:30 in the morning on Monday morning. I also am concerned about the
negative impact this will have on my property value going forward, and if it's a regular event, it's
going to be something I cannot deny to someone who comes in my neighborhood to look at homes,
especially my home in the future. Now I've lived there, my children have grown up on West
Mountain. It's been a great asset to have. When we did have Summer Jams, the vandalism that
would take place in Bedford Close would be appalling at night with mailboxes knocked down,
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people's properties and lawns torn up because there was overflow of traffic and parking which did
take place when we had a big event, and I'm concerned about not only noise but the transient's that
will work their way through the neighborhood and what sort of security will be provided by Mr.
Barbone and the Town of Queensbury who's going to bear the expense of security in guarding our
homes and our properties during this period of time, and I think those are things that have to come
into a planning committee and a plan of action, all things that can be taken into consideration going
forward in this sort of endeavor, and not just willy nilly let's have a permit. I understand Mr.
Barbone's situation. It doesn't snow like it used to snow. We don't want to see West Mountain go
under, but I'm going to tell you that my concern, unfortunately, is my personal property and my
home,way of living in this community, and I ask that you all take that into consideration before you
go forward with your final decisions, and I think that giving someone a carte blanch open ticket to
do whatever he wants without being reviewed on a regular basis is, I would like to be able to
function like that as a physician. I can't. I'm scrutinized everything I do, and unfortunately that's
the way that we live today, and anybody who's got an open ticket, I'd like to change jobs with him.
Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Who would like to be next? Yes,sir.
COREY TILLEY
MR. TILLEY-Hello. My name's Corey Tilley. I actually live on 66 West Mountain Road. I'm pretty
much directly across from West Mountain, and I grew up there, I think until the age of 16, and I did
move away for about 12 or 13 years. I actually live back there now. I do remember a lot of the
Summer Jams. I do remember some of the parties, things like that. I don't remember anything
destructive ever happening. The worst thing I ever really remember was just a little bit of litter,
but I do remember either owner, whether it was Mr. Barbone or Mr. Brandt, always taking care of
that within a day or so. I do understand the concerns of some people with the noise. Although even
being directly across the street, it is really never been invasive in my home. I understand that
people sometimes feel very scared or worried about their personal property or things like that
during an event where there is a mass amount of people. I've never seen anything living on West
Mountain Road that has come about because of any of these events, and I've really actually never
even heard of anything destructive happening. I'm not saying that it hasn't, I'm just saying being
directly across the road, I was never ever directly involved in any of it and never saw any of it. I
think in today's day and age with the way the economy is, obviously with the way the weather is,
giving someone a shot to further their business is kind of a no brainer. No one would do anything
to harm their business. Obviously Mr. Barbone wouldn't do anything to increase the chance of a
problem at his premises. So really, I mean, as living directly across the road, I truly don't see a
problem with any part of it, just because I think he's a responsible business owner that really
wouldn't do anything harmful to the community,and that's all I really have to say,thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,sir.
ERV GAU
MR. GAU-My name is Ery Gau. I live on Founders Way, and Don said most of it. My concern is
noise. I know three to four months out of the year I have to listen to the snowmaking machines,you
know that sound. After that it's the grooming machines. So fine, good, we understand, business is
business, half a year he's doing the skiing, but to extend it now through the summer months with
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and all these different noises, plus property values will
definitely go down. I mean, Bedford Close is a beautiful area. Everybody would like to live there,
but the property taxes we pay are terrific too. So I just want to let you know I'm against it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Good evening.
PAUL BRANDT
MR. BRANDT-I'm Paul Brandt on 137 West Mountain Road. I live quite close to the ski area,and I've
been associated with it since 1965, and I do know that between the competition from the State and
the bad winters, it's a tough business, and I think that we should give Mr. Barbone a chance to
improve the business and make sure it stays here. I know West Mountain Ski area is a good training
ground for our young skiers, and we've had several generations of them there, and I say give them
the chance. I know that if things go bad all the neighbors are going to be coming to try and shut it
down,but I say give them a chance.
MR.HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else?
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NICOLE MOREHOUSE
MS. MOREHOUSE-My name's Nicole Morehouse. I'm also a property owner in Bedford Close, and
when I hear noises from the mountain I hear a successful business. I don't know how you can say
snow making and grooming is an acceptable noise but snowmobiling and music is not because we
make not like that noise as much. As long as the noise is even, it should be all fine. I'm not worried
about it affecting my property value because I think it's an asset to have a mountain in my backyard
and I just think that that should be considered.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Thankyou.
MIKE CHOWSKE
MR. CHOWSKE-Mike Chowske. I'm actually a citizen of Glens Falls. I don't live in Queensbury. I
don't know whether that matters. I hope not. I have to say that I think that granting Mr. Barbone a
permit that would be more than two years would be actually more beneficial, even for some of the
complaints I'm hearing here. If you were to give him a four year permit,you might end up getting a
more professional,you know, promoter, I guess is the word. Something,you know,you give them a
six months or a year permit,he's going to kind of have to work with,you know, the cheaper end of
the bucket on this. It's going to be kind of fly by night industries, and that's where you're going to
get noise and problems, septic problems, things like that. Giving him a four year permit or even a
longer permit would give him the potential to hold on to whatever promoter he was going to have
for a longer period of time, and they would be able to, they would have more money to keep the
sound down. That's obviously an issue. They would also have more experience. Better sound
technicians would keep things, you know, at a minimum. Better security, too. There's always the
issue of people being concerned about their property and things getting ruined. Using a more
professional promoter,you would have much better security,less problems in the community,and I
think it's a revenue winner. I mean, he's right off the highway. It's a perfect location. There seems
to be plenty of room for cars, camping on the other side of the cars and then there's the road. I'm
having a hard time, I've been to a lot of these festivals and I'm having a hard time seeing where
noise and vandalism would even be a problem in the Bedford Close area. Maybe in the Founders
Way area, but I really don't. I think it's fear, and I think he has a real opportunity here and I think
you guys should grant him that opportunity. The winters aren't helping him,and that's it. Thanks.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Good evening.
RICH MOZAL
MR. MOZAL-Hi. My name's Rich Mozal. I live on Founders Way. I'm a new kid on the block. I've
been there four years. I bought a house, and I bought the house with the understanding that there
was going to be a ski center there, and obviously since I was born it's been there, and I had no
problem when I purchased my house four years ago, but as of now, I remember most recently a
month ago,9:30 at night on Tuesday all of a sudden the two kids and the dogs they go nuts. There's
fireworks at 9:30 at night on a Tuesday, and it goes on for a half an hour. It's got nothing to do with
skiing or a ski center. During the Fall, music supposedly was supposed to stop at 10, 11 o'clock at
night or whatever. There was music going one or two nights until four or five in the morning. You
could hear it at my house. I'm like 500 yards from the place. I understand it. Obviously I'm in small
business myself, and I don't want to see anything happen with Mr. Barbone, but could you make
parameters like, I understand if there's going to be campers there,you know, I have a house across
the street basically almost, not directly, and there's going to be campers there. They're going to be
able to stay there, RV's,and how many. I guess that's maybe my question. Would it be 20 RV's, 100
RV's? How many people can stay across the street from my house with just like I say, recently, I
only bought the place four years ago. I wasn't expecting any of this, and I honestly do wish Mr.
Barbone all the best, but I do have my own concerns about my house and my kids and my family. I
just want to leave you with that,gentlemen. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,ma'am.
DOREY REDECKER
MRS. REDECKER-My name is Dorey Redecker. I live on Honey Hollow, which is around the corner
from Founders Way. I've been there for 13 years. I moved there in 2000. Came several weekends
looking for houses, and looked at everything that I thought might be fit in the multiple listing book.
One I thought sounded very good my realtor said you don't want that one, it's very near The Great
Escape. It will be very noisy. You won't like it. If she was telling me that in 2000 about The Great
Escape, I can only perceive that that is going to be the future of Bedford Close, and I do feel that
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anybody that says that about an area, it's noisy, you're not going to like it, especially proposing
things that go on during the warm months when people have their doors open, perhaps trying to
entertain their own friends in their backyards, on their decks or around their pools, I only can
foresee that that is going to become an issue and you cannot say that it will not impact property
values,because I think it will. Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Yes,sir.
CODY GREEN
MR. GREEN-Hello. My name is Cody Green. I'm a local musician in the area, and I just wanted to
say that I feel this is a great opportunity to get more venues in the area, because we have a lot of
trouble getting business, and for young musicians like myself and my fellow band mates,it's really
hard to get, like, a lot of business because we're young, we don't really know what we're doing.
We've been playing together for five years and we've had probably three years' worth of gigging
experience, and I feel this is a great opportunity to get us playing in the Glens Falls area and the
Queensbury area. That's all.
MR.HUNSINGER-Okay. Thank you. Yes,ma'am.
MARA POWELL
MRS. POWELL-Hi. I'm Mara Powell and I'm a current resident on Apres Circle right near West
Mountain, and I think mostly what I've been hearing tonight and my own concern is about the noise
level. I mean, everybody wants West Mountain to succeed, and bringing in musicians and other
events, etc., would be good for the mountain, but the big concern is the noise level. If we could put
some stricter regulations. I know that the Town doesn't actually have a noise ordinance, but if we
could say for outdoor events that the noise can't be above a certain level and it has to end at a
certain time and that those are strictly enforced, because last summer in the Fall we did hear every
single event. We heard a booming bass. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in the
building with that bass inside the building, outside the building. There was no difference in what
we heard. I mean, our windows were boom,boom,boom,were rattling,and I would love to see him
succeed. Everybody loves to ski in the winter. Skiing is a quiet sport. Who doesn't want to ski? But
in the summer,the ski place,it's not SPAC. This isn't,you know, a known outside art entertainment
place that's built in with noise baffling walls and all that kind of stuff. It's not made for that. So if
we could impart some sort of noise level that has to be maintained, I think that would really make a
difference for the whole community and get a lot less people worried about it if you knew that they
weren't going to hear it,and that's all I have to say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MR. KREBS-Can I ask you a question?
MRS. POWELL-Yes,sir.
MR. KREBS-Last year when we approved their October event,they agreed that they would have the
amplification of the noise reduced by not using the electronics. Did you people find any lack of
noise? Was it quieter?
MR. SCIALABBA-The percussion. It's the percussion bass, how much that vibrates through the
area, especially in the wintertime,too when you have no leaves on the trees. It was just as bad.
MRS. POWELL-I personally heard no difference.
MR. KREBS-Okay. Because we did ask them to take the percussion and reduce the electronics in the
percussion,and I thought that worked,but I wasn't aware that it didn't.
MRS.POWELL-Right.
MR. MAGOWAN-I think it was the techno. It was more the techno, that constant beat, that boom,
boom,boom.
MRS. POWELL-Boom,boom,boom.
MR. MAGOWAN-That's what I think we asked for them to curtail.
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MRS. POWELL-Right, but I don't know, I mean, is there any sort of device involved that can go and
say,oh,look,you're way above the limit,you know? I mean, other towns must have ordinances that
there's a way to enforce them by saying,you know,this is how loud you're allowed to be and you're
way over, or, you know, you should be under. Maybe there can be some sort of parameter, you
know,put into this permit that says you can't go beyond this level, and I think that would eliminate
so many people from complaining and this and that and really stopping, you know, if he wants to
have events, that's great, just make sure that, you know, nobody can hear them except for the
people who are there who want to hear them,and that's my thoughts.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MRS. POWELL-Thank you.
MR. HUNS INGER-Anyone else? Yes,sir.
KEVIN EDWARDS
MR. EDWARDS-My name's Kevin Edwards. I reside right across the road from the ski center, 68
West Mountain Road, and I've lived there since 1992, built a home there,knowing there was going
to be, that a ski center was there, there's going to be noise. To me, I haven't, I've grew into the
noise. It's not that loud. These venues he's had, I don't know where they're hearing where their
windows are booming or whatever. I've got a little ranch home, must be air tight or what, but it's
not that loud. It's not. I have several family members that like to come over during the winter
season, some of them ski,some of them don't. They just like to sit there in the picture window and
watch the skiers. In the early, well, we got talking about the burn out pit, the car show. At that
time my oldest boy, he was young. We would go over there every Wednesday, grab a hot dog or
hamburger,watch the burn outs, and I didn't even,to be honest with you, I didn't even know it was
a burn out. It was just smoke. I thought it was a fire. That's what got my attention. You didn't
even hear it, from my direction anyway. Maybe it was from the side views or what have you, but I
did not hear that,but then to go over there on a Wednesday night and it's all closed down. What do
you tell your kid,you know, oh,they just shut the place down,they don't do it anymore. Then they
had the paint ball shooting going on, they were trying to pass that, which that never occurred,
which my boy was into that. Other than that, business, you know, the winters are getting worse.
Obviously we know that there's not as much snow. Being a business owner he's got to do
something to keep it going. The last thing I want to see is the place shut down and weeds growing
in the parking lot, trees, what have you, or maybe even a development up on the face of the
mountain. I don't want to see that. I like watching the plant wildlife in the summer. The same
thing with the venues that he had with the Jam fest in October, what have you. I was there both
weekends. We walk, we have a dog,we walk over there,we come back,but it's not as loud as what
people are explaining in my eyes. That's about it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,sir.
JEREMIAH GRECCO
MR. GRECCO-How are you doing. My name's Jeremiah Grecco. I am a Queensbury resident now for
a year and a half. I come from the ski industry. I've worked in the business for nine years now,
although I may not look it. I just wanted to speak about the importance of events to the ski industry
these days. Without them, any mountain you talk to would be in trouble, and, you know, many of
the events that we're talking about here are music events. I know West is looking at a number of
different events including like the mud runs,which,you know, may include a PA system during the
day and that's really it, and I like the idea of giving them something to work with in terms of a 16
month to two year window. We can't give them, we can't allow them to plan without having
something to plan on. So I like the idea of the events. I wish them the best, and I hope they can get
something going.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,sir. Good evening.
JOHNNY CERRONE
MR. CERRONE-My name is Johnny Cerrone. I live at 23 Apres Circle. I'm also a partner in Cerrone
Builders. We have, obviously, five of the lots there. We have Alpine Drive, another future
subdivision, on the other side. Me being a small business owner, I do want to see Mr. Barbone
succeed. I don't want to take anything away from him. I just feel we need to control the events.
They never spoke about security, putting up a fence by the woods that borders my property so
nobody wanders in there when they're camping, because that's going to be somebody's backyard.
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You can control people at the gate, and when the parking's done, it's done. When they had the
warrior run, my street was loaded with cars. I came in to go to my model house to show a
customer, couldn't get in, they blocked everything. It was a one day event. If you do events every
week and stuff like that,you know, it could come into a problem. The first thing customers ask me,
can you hear the snow making machines? It's not that bad, it's a couple of months. It's in the
winter, who's outside anyway? But when you have the summer, you have the concerts, there
should definitely be a start and stop time. There's got to be a noise level, and where on the
mountain is it going to be? Can you control it in the middle of the mountain? Can you put up a
fence? Can you have some security? Can you have people watching where they're going? Cabs,
people are drinking. There's a lot of things you've got to take into account that they never
mentioned one of those,serious, serious consequences could come from that, and I,being a partner
in a business that I'm trying to sell property, much like as everybody else here, what about my
property value,because I don't just have one home. We have 21 lots left. My father's been in this
community for a longtime, building a lot of homes. He's always done the right thing. He supports
small business. We support Mr. Barbone. We just feel he needs guidelines. That's all I have to say.
Thank you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Yes,sir.
DAVID JOSEPH
MR. JOSEPH-Good evening. My name's David Joseph. I'm a new homeowner. We moved into
Northwest Road in Stonebridge. We bought the house in September and we moved in November.
So from our house we can see the triple chair, and I think, from listening to everyone here tonight,
I'm sort of split down the middle. On one hand,myself,my wife,I have two children, 13 and 9 years
old. When the fireworks went on, the kids loved it. They were looking out the window, they
thought it was great. I think West Mountain, the short time that we've been here, is a great
business. It's wonderful for the community and what it does for the Town of Queensbury as well as
Warren County. Any expansion upon that I think is a great thing. I was talking to my son about,
and my daughter about walking to the mountain when summer events happen, sitting out on the
deck and listening to great music and so on and so forth. As a homeowner, and as a father and a
husband,the thing I get concerned about is some of the overflow,some of the parking. I don't know
if any of the events are, I came into this a little bit late. So I don't know if anything is going to be
planned over by the triple chair area or, as the gentleman just before indicated about additional
parking and overflow, getting into that residential area. That's part of my concern as well as some
of the overnight events that may occur,having transients walking around in the middle of the night,
so on and so forth. I don't know where any of the camping sites are. So I'm a little ignorant on that
side of the coin,but I think it's a great thing. I think it's something that's good for the community on
one hand. I think on the other side of the coin,just care has to be taken as some of the people have
said here about overflow,about noise and about some of these overnight events and people walking
or walking about in the residential areas and vandalism and what have you, but that's it. Thank
you.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,ma'am.
PAIGE SIBLER
MS. SIBLER-Hello.
MR. HUNSINGER-Hi.
MS. SIBLER-My name's Paige Sibler. I live on Ridge Road in Queensbury. I just want to say I'm
definitely for the events in the summer. I know some of the concerns with the noise are valid.
However, from my understanding, I don't think there are going to be events every weekend, which
would really be a pain. It sounds like it's really just going to be once a month, and most likely you
would know when the events are so you can sort of plan on maybe staying on the other side of the
house for those two nights, but I've also gone to Bonnaroo in Tennessee. It's 100,000 people, and
Manchester, Tennessee is much smaller than Queensbury. I also, in the last 10 years, have seen
them put in new schools and upgrade a lot of the buildings in the community from the extra income
that was brought in. It actually backs up traffic for close to 30 miles and the local Boy Scouts and
Girl Scouts sell water and grilled cheese and make extra money. So it's pretty,like beneficial to the
local community. I don't ever think it would ever get that big at West Mountain, but it would be
awesome if it did because it would bring a lot of extra money for the community. I also know I
enjoy the fireworks that are there. I also enjoy the free fireworks every Thursday night in Lake
George, and I hear them down on Ridge Road in Queensbury and I can almost see them, but not
quite,and it really doesn't bother me, and if anything I like the fact that it's free entertainment. So I
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just want to say that I'm for it and I definitely think that a two year permit is more realistic,because,
you know, Mountain Jam, Hunter Mountain, Hunter, New York, very small area, they release their
tickets in January, and they release their line-up in December for an event that happens in June,
which gets more people in and it gives them time for planning. They're pre-sale tickets. They can
see how many people are coming, and sort of plan for the influx of people. I definitely think that
you'll get better promoters if you give them an extended permit. So I just want to say I'm for it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
MS. SIBLER-Thanks.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good evening.
NANCY WALKER
MRS. WALKER-Good evening. I'm Nancy Walker. My husband and I have owned Pumpkin Hill
Farm for 35 years, and we think West Mountain as a neighbor has been phenomenal. It's been an
asset to us, our children and now our grandchildren, and I'm scared that they're not going to be
around a whole lot longer. They've had two really bad winters,and I want to support them any way
I can. I know people are concerned about the noise and I understand that, and I hope that can be
addressed, but when the Summer Jam, when they stopped having it at the ski center, my husband
and I were crushed. Because they had had it for years. Yes,there were cars parked on both sides of
the roads for three miles, both sides of the ski center, but so what? We invite people have a party,
walk up, sit on the side of the mountain. It was a great family event. Every morning after Summer
Jam, we would see people, at that time Mr. Brandt, they would be walking along the sides of the
roads picking up litter. I'm for it. That's all I can say. You have to at least give them a chance, and
give them a long enough permit. They've already lost the summer. This summer is history,because
without a permit, no one has even listened to them. So give them a chance. I don't want to see a
housing development there.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. Anyone else? Any written comments, Laura?
MRS.MOORE-1 do, I have eight comments.
MR. HUNSINGER-I'm sorry. Go ahead,sir.
JERRY WOOD
MR. WOOD-My name is Jerry Wood. I've worked for Mike Barbone for two years now doing the
tubing park,and I feel that if he doesn't succeed with his business that my friends and myself won't
have a job at West Mountain, and it's a nice seasonal job, and you meet a lot of nice people, and he
did do this warrior run, and I feel like that he didn't expect it to be as large as it was. I have
attended many different warrior runs in Windom Mountain and they're very large and now if he
does do activities like this that should now be addressed, as in how many people there are and
maybe they can control it a little bit more parking wise, because it's a good activity he's got going
on, and if he plays his cards right I feel like he'll do real good in the future, and that's all I have to
say.
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you. One last time, anyone else in the audience want to address the
Board? Okay. Go ahead, Laura.
MRS. MOORE-I have eight public comments. The first one is Marion Policastro, 16 Stonebridge
Road. "My concern with the concerts would be having open fires (too much danger of a fire getting
out of hand) and the noise level after 11 pm. Will there be someone there to enforce and keep a
watchful eye on the fire situation." Next one is Lisa Coutu of 43 Northwest Road. "Dear Planning
Board Members: I am writing in response to the Notice of Public Hearing my husband and I
received regarding the public hearing on an application submitted by Mike Barbone. I am unable to
attend this meeting but would like my comments to be considered in the discussion of whether or
not to grant Mr. Barbone the Special Use Permit for which he has applied. In the past I have
supported Mr. Barbone's efforts to offer off-season activities at West Mountain Ski Center, such as
golfing, mountain biking, zip line, and alpine coaster. I have had no objections to such in-season
uses as opening the mountain to snowmobiles (which come over as far as Northwest Road,where I
live). I did not object to the music festivals he hosted last year. However, I cannot support his
request for a blanket SUP for single and multi-day music festivals. Mr. Barbone's words and actions
regarding the music festivals he hosted in 2012 suggest a striking disdain for the Town Code and
the Town Planning Board and clearly indicate that he cannot be relied on to go by the rules or to
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keep his word. I don't wish to reiterate all that happened last year, but I do want to highlight two
things. Firstly, he did, in fact, hold a music festival without Planning Board review or approval,
later stating he did not know he needed Planning Board approval. Secondly, once he was
"informed" of the requirement, Mr. Barbone chose not to seek Planning Board approval for the
second music festival, at one point even stating that he was not going to submit an application for
the Board to review, but rather would just go forward with his plans for the music festival, and in
essence, whatever happens, happens. Thus, giving him a blanket approval for holding outdoor
festivals seems imprudent at this time. I believe that requiring Mr. Barbone to seek Planning Board
approval for each music festival he wants to host would give him an opportunity to demonstrate
that he is willing to abide by the Town Code and comply with all requirements relevant to his
proposed activities. Should he prove himself to be reliable after hosting several (perhaps three or
four) music festivals, he could then re-approach the Board with a request for a blanket approval.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to express my opinion." Next item is Betsy and Dave
Moynehan, 8 Founders Way. "Dear Sirs: We have received the town notice regarding the above
hearing and wish to share our thoughts regarding same. Prior to the events of last summer,
wherein Mr. Barbone ignored the established procedures for obtaining a permit and then failed to
live up to the parameters given by the town, I would have supported his current desires, but once
someone destroys a trust, it has to be re-earned. We really want the mountain to continue
operating and be financially successful, but we also want our quality-of-life issues respected,
property value supported and overall residential community qualities to be retained. The two can
coexist as they always have,but guidelines must exist and be enforced to ensure that outcome. We
believe our neighbors share our feelings in this regard. We know that curfews were not adhered to
last year at the events that took place. We know our house literally shook from the reverberation
of the bass instruments emanating from the mountain. That disruption,on an occasional basis now
and then,would not upset us, but a planned series of events over the course of the warmer months
could potentially become a severe encroachment into our ability to enjoy our property on the
weekends and evenings as we expect to be able to do. Hosting between 11 and 14 single - and
multi-day events (according to the application) is a new, unexpected, and potentially alarming
change to the residential character of the various neighborhoods that have existed near the
mountain for several decades. Last year,town permitting requirements were pretty much ignored,
there seemed to be an attitude of defiance (if the stories presented in local media were at all
accurate), and music went on long after the agreed-upon ending time on a couple of the nights,
making sleep impossible until it finally did quiet down. We feel that the requested trust has to be
re-earned. Trust was presumed last year when permits were granted by the town; clearly the
grantee of those permits did not act in good faith or show gratitude for having received the
accommodation in spite of ignoring proper town application guidelines. Please consider having
each event obtain its own permit for some period of time, perhaps a year, to see how the spirit of
cooperation between application, local residents and the Town progresses. This also will give the
town time to observe, think through, and gain feedback regarding the types of events in order to
better assess what works - and what doesn't - for the betterment of all. Respectfully submitted,
Betsy& Dave Moynehan" Next is Cynthia Suprenant, 3 Founders Way. "Dear Mr. Krebs: I write
in respect of the blanket Special Use Permit application submitted by East Slope Holding, L.P. and
on the agenda for discussion at tonight's Planning Board meeting. First, please know that I love
West Mountain. I love the shrieks of children in the tubing park on a clear winter day, and the
drone of the snow machines at night. It's part of what makes my neighborhood a lovely place to
live. I'm sure it's been an extraordinarily hard couple of years for the owners without much snow.
That having been said, I do not think it is in the best interest of the Town of Queensbury to approve
this blanket permit for events that are far out of character for the historically quiet ski mountain in
our midst,particularly when the trust between the Town and West Mountain has been broken. All
the information I have on the controversy surrounding the August and October 2012 concerts
comes from press coverage in The Post Star and from neighbors. My understanding is that West
Mountain's management defied permitting regulations for the August 2012 festival,but was given a
second chance to"make good"by submitting an application for its October festival by a date certain.
That date was not met, and the town went so far as to decide to seek an injunction to prevent the
October festival from taking place. A number of alarming and inexplicably confrontational
statements were made by West Mountain. My own experience is that the loud outdoor music for
both festivals - went on well past the agreed upon time. That having been said, I don't think West
Mountain has yet proved that it has the will and/or ability to prepare and comply with a complete
event plan in its permit application. I think the town should approve proposed festivals on an
event-by-event basis for perhaps a year. Maybe it was just a rough start for new ownership last
year. If things go well through several festivals,we could be sitting here a year from now with West
Mountain having rebuilt the trust that's been broken. Then, we could feel much more confident
about issuing them a blanket permit for some number of festivals with certain quiet times,etc. I'm
not excited about mostly out-of-town kids camping and drinking in the parking lot and music
blaring only 1,000 feet from my doorstep. Eleven to fourteen festivals spanning multiple days will
seriously affect the quality of life in this end of town. But if the permitting process is followed for
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each festival,the board reviews each application and takes into account the body of experience with
West Mountain to date, citizens are given an opportunity to be heard, and then a particular event is
approved, that's all I can reasonably expect." Next item is from Margaret Stuerzebecher, 99 West
Mountain Road. "Once again, I would like to comment on the permit for the music festivals. I
certainly want the ski mountain to be successful, but I believe concessions need to be made to the
neighbors. Bonfires area concern in an area of wood and pine trees. Music is still heard after 11
p.m. Doors and windows in the lodge need to be closed. We still get the beat of the bass for several
hours after 11 p.m. Thank you." The next one is from Kirby VanVleet, 19 Amethyst Drive. "I live
within a half mile of West Mountain Ski Center and understand that West Mountain is approaching
the Town for permits to hold summer activities. I feel West Mountain offers quite a lot to the
Queensbury and surrounding communities. It is phenomenal to have a ski center within our Town.
In this day ad age of variable weather and tough economy a ski area can not exist on winter ski
activities alone. I support West Mountain in their pursuit of summer activities. I am unable to
attend the Town meeting on March 26, 2013, but wanted to express my support of West Mountain
having summer activities/music festivals. Please consider the integral part that West Mountain
plays in our community while considering permits for summer activities. Thank you." Next one is
from Kathleen Hubert and David Hubert, 112 West Mountain Road. "We have concerns in
reference to Special Use Permit 11-2013 by applicant Mike Barbone for single and multi-day music
festivals with outdoor concert in our residential area. Some of these concerns are - excessive
daytime music and late night outdoor music including "bass reverb" - placement of area for
campers and sanitary and fire safety provisions for that area - security/crowd control within the
entire area - that the applicant, owners and agents be held responsible for actions of any and all
promoters at a festival Your provisions for the October 2012 festival seemed appropriate - some
of them were - NO "bass reverb" - outdoor music to end at 10:00 p.m. - internal security on
property We wish West Mt. success but ask that respect and consideration is shown to its
neighbors. Thank you." Last is Gabe Armando, 24 Stonebridge Road "I am unable to attend this
Meeting due to a Knee Injury. Based on last year's performance by the Ski Area and its lack of
consideration for Neighbors, I am strongly opposed to any Outdoor Concerts or Music Festivals in
the future. There was a condition that required all Music to be inside after 10:00 PM, however.
Loud Music was prevalent into the early hours of the morning. If it was inside,all the windows and
doors must have been open to allow this noise to be heard throughout the entire neighborhood. I
know the Ski Area must have other activities to survive,but it survived for many years without this
sort of thing. I wish Mike good luck with this venture even though I can not agree with this plan.
Other neighbors have also expressed this same opposition, however, reluctant to comment."
Those are the eight comments, and I will share with the Board that I did have a conversation with
the Department of Health. They indicated that their application was incomplete, but he indicated
that he was looking for additional information about their tenting and items like that, which is
normal, and he also expressed some comments that I asked for was, you know, how does
Department of Health handle other sites like this, and in some instances individual have people
within their services that actually put together a site plan application for them showing the number
of spots, showing the number of tent sites in detail. So he understood what was happening. It's
happening all over. This is not something new. He handles most of, I don't know, this area and
south of here. So he's very familiar with it and he was willing to talk with the applicant, if that
opportunity was needed.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MS. PARKER-If I could address that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,absolutely.
MS. PARKER-Again,three phone calls, no answered messages. The application was sent back once,
with absolutely no, and I have copies of this if you're interested in seeing this, with, oh, gee, and
then giving me a whole other application process. I spoke to Richard Hess personally, literally on
the phone, filled out the application with him on the phone, sent it to him. Even he was shocked
today when I said,they've sent it back again. Please tell me what you need. I brought it over again,
personally, didn't put it through the mail,with a site map,please show me where this rule is. Again,
they don't have these rules. They have no X sites per X thing. So it's all uncharted territory. The
only thing he could tell me is that there's certainly ample space for us to allow 10 feet per tent,okay.
We have that done. It was crazy. Where are we going to get the potable water? Where are we
going to, and kind of like the site review. No, we have water. We have water in our restaurant.
They're able to get it there. Our lavatories and facilities are usable. We'll bring in more port-a-
potties. Even though it's not required, we're going to bring in showers, and a couple of prints, and
you guys have, are privy to this, but the audience is not. We have in front of you a proof that we
had security details on 24 hours a day, during events, which we put before you. We have also in
our contracts, we do not allow fires. No fires on the ground whatsoever. The only fire is in our
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designated fire permit,which has been approved by the Fire Marshal, etc. So there are not fires all
the way around. I also have for the record if anyone's interested in seeing it,we did obtain a permit
for October. I have the copy of that permit in front of me. So for these people to say we
circumvented the system, we realized we didn't know we needed it in August. We went forward
before you and you gave us a permit in October. So that is incorrect as well. I applaud the people
of Founders Way. They certainly have come out in their neighborhood in force. I think that might
have been due to their post office letter that went out, not through the post office but by them
personally putting things in the post office,which we notably actually reported them for as well,but
we certainly, we want to work with the community. We're happy to answer more questions and
give you more details.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I mean, obviously there were a lot of comments during the public hearing.
There was some,you know, questions, one you sort of addressed just now, how many campers. In
fact that was one of the questions that I had,you know, it's really based on the area size more than
anything. So I guess the question is how big is the camping area, you know, what do you see as
being the maximum number of campers? The RV parking was a question.
MR. BARBONE-There is no RV's.
MS. PARKER-We did. We had it on the mountain.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, 10 to 12.
MS. PARKER-10 to 12 and 99% of the RV's that come are not actually attendees. Those are the
people that are vendors that bring their RV's to set up their vending and their goods.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MS. PARKER-So it's not like you have people coming and RVing like we're a KOA. Most of the RV's
that come are actually the vendors that travel from venue to venue with their wares and goods,and
move on to the next one. So we did have to allow for that, and that was, again, that was, Craig
Brown's office was adamant that we place that on our map for you.
MR. DEEB-You don't anticipate any other RV's coming in?
MS. PARKER-We really don't. If we got a couple I'd be surprised, but most of them, as we say, are
the,we don't even allow them to park in our (lost word). We insist that they park in the lot. We
don't want them back in the,by the fire pit and on the mountain. Once they unload their goods and
their wares,they have to move that trailer or RV to the parking.
MR. DEEB-What happens if you get 50 RV's?
MR. BARBONE-We don't have the parking for them.
MS. PARKER-We don't have the parking for 50 RV's, because again, you're right, gentlemen. That
would cut into our 13 acres of parking. We want the public to come and enjoy. To be on a water
hook up. We don't have sewage or whatever you call it, we don't have the (lost words) to handle
that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Pump out station, yes. You had said earlier that the multi-day events would be
from Friday to Sunday. Would the single day events also be on the weekend?
MS. PARKER-Primarily because that's what they would want. We're not opposed to, you know,
gosh, the cancer walk, the cystic fibrosis walk. Those are all part of this. We don't know what to
do.
MR. HUNSINGER-But that would be a daytime event.
MS. PARKER-Those are daytime events,yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-So if it was during the week,it wouldn't be into the evening?
MS. PARKER-I don't believe so. Ninety-nine percent,in my mind, are going to be held on weekends
when the general public could attend. I can't see a lot of people taking (lost words) for a one day
event.
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MR. DEEB-I see you proposed going indoors at 11 o'clock.
MS. PARKER-Yes.
MR. DEEB-We have the same type of situation with The Great Escape. I was just wondering,would
there be any opposition to saying 10 o'clock and then going indoors?
MR. BARBONE-There is no law stating that. So, who's going to say that? Am I going to make the
law? I don't know. So you guys have got to tell me when you want the music. That's what we're
here for. You guys tell us what we need to do.
MR.DEEB-And how about addressing that percussions and bass? How could that be remedied?
MR. BARBONE-I just want to just make a couple of statements about that. We have a restaurant,
restaurant/pub/grill. We have music in there all the time. We're allowed to stay open until four
o'clock. Our liquor license says we're allowed to stay open until four o'clock and play music. So
are we saying we can't play music after 11 o'clock, we have to close the windows at my restaurant
to play music? We play music in the wintertime every Friday night,every Saturday night.
MR. DEEB-Until what time?
MR. BARBONE-'Til three, four o'clock. We either have a one piece or a six piece. Fire on The
Mountain we had two bands. We had one downstairs and one upstairs, a DJ and some free
fireworks. You couldn't get in the place because it was free, and I have to just make one statement
and only one statement. I'll make it quick. Founders Way,you know, I bought my house on West
Mountain Road, 43 West Mountain Road, because I thought it was safe. I woke up one day and
there was an arrow sticking in my house, from Founders Way. Somebody was playing with an
arrow, and their target was facing my house. How safe was that? I just want to make a comment
because evidently there's a lot of comments coming from Founders Way. I woke up one morning
and there was an arrow stuck by my Bay window.
MR. DEEB-That was an accident,right?
MR. BARBONE-Absolutely.
MR. DEEB-It's a different situation what they're talking about. The other issue is security.
MS. PARKER-We do have security 24/7. We do, EMT 24/7, security, 24/7. You have examples of
schedules in your packets. We have a preferred EMT that we still work with, Travis Dunklee. We
require this of them. There's not a chance you're going to have, even on a single day event, you'll
still have EMT security. In your packets, we've worked well with the West Glens Falls Fire
Department as well as the rescue. We let them know, we're certainly here to maintain and have a
safe,secure family event as well.
MR. DEEB-Well, I'm looking at the camping site which is adjacent to, I think Northwest, the
development. I'm just wondering,will you have security wandering there during the night?
MS. PARKER-Absolutely.
MR. DEEB-To make sure that somebody who might drink a little too much and start wandering.
The neighbors have to be concerned.
MS. PARKER-Absolutely, 24/7, and it doesn't even go as far as the trail. On your map what this is
siting for the camping is actually in what we call the melon patch area. It does not even go as far as
the trail that goes over onto the triple, you know, as of last year we did not deem that necessary.
We didn't want to,being conscientious to the neighbors over there,we didn't want it to go that far.
MR. DEEB-And you said you're going to have showers. You're going to bring in showers, and are
they going to be where the bathrooms are?
MS. PARKER-Yes. It's noted. The showers are not on yours,but I did note it for the Department of
Health. The showers are, as you face your map, gentlemen, there's a building and it says the large
tent, over to the right of that it says bathrooms. The showers are there,central to the camping site
to the right and to the camping site to the left, and ironically we're making them provide that, but
the Department of Health doesn't require it. It is not a requirement to get a camping permit.
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MR. DEEB-But it was the DOH that said 10 foot for campsites?
MS. PARKER-The DOH just told me today, as I spoke to Virginia Hess on the phone today, and did
ask them to actually provide me that information in writing. As I say, every day I get on the phone
and here's, oh,by the way, and now here's (lost word), now address this,which we do immediately
upon bringing it to our attention. Literally this morning I was told that it's a one, 10 for 10 feet.
Fine, we said clearly have enough space for that, absolutely happy to comply with that, and in my
letter to him, as I dropped off today, I even stated please provide me with that zoning or that rule
because I didn't have that in m packet, unless I'm not familiar with it. I literally dropped it off to
him today, which I'm happy to furnish you gentlemen with a copy of. I just didn't bring 14 copies,
and we'll have restrooms in the main lodge and the West End Grille open to the public as well. West
Mountain currently has its open septic system in place. We don't need a new one. West Mountain
is on metered water, very expensive metered water I might add, for snow making, etc. West
Mountain's on metered water. We'll provide potable drinking water from the main lodge.
Therefore no new groundwater or well is required. West Mountain will require portable showers
to be procured by the promoter,even though this is not a requirement of the Department of Health.
No permanent construction, this is where it's all amazing me. No permanent construction,
enlargement or conversion or existing facilities will take place. Everyone's approaching this like
we're building a compound. We're just looking to allow the Boy Scouts to camp more than 60
hours, and we, I mean,we said we have no dates, and the only thing in accordance, as discussed,the
map shows there's clearly enough area to allow for the one tent over 10 feet rule as well. Please
provide us with a copy of that information. I have no information on that rule. Again, all of the
packet of information that was (lost words).
MR. DEEB-Would you have a problem with limiting the number of events for the summer?
MS. PARKER-We have limited the events, to five or six. You think that's not enough, you think
that's too much?
MR. DEEB-No, I was just wondering if that would be a maximum. I mean,I don't even see.
MS. PARKER-Well, that is a maximum. Yes, five or six off season for the multi-day, and six to eight
for off season. I can't imagine we would go further than that.
MR. DEEB-But that doesn't say maximum. It says we hope to procure five or six.
MS. PARKER-Okay.
MR. DEEB-Okay. What I'm saying is you could, I mean, if you had a chance to get 10 or 15, I'm just
wondering if you would be amenable to putting a limit on it.
MS. PARKER-I have no problem with that. As we said after this summer, gentlemen, we're going to
be lucky if I can get three, at this late date.
MR.DEEB-For this summer,but hopefully in the future.
MS. PARKER-Hopefully in the future this will just get better, and hopefully the neighbors will be
able to appreciate that it is to be a win/win situation for everyone. I appreciate the people that
have honestly lived there and said they've been in their homes since 1940, 1951, 19,I find it kind of
amazing that the newer home developments,the newer large, large homes,these aren't little single
story ranches. The newer, larger home developments are the ones that are really opposed. It's
kind of like that,you know, the not in my backyard thing, but you knew you were buying right next
to a Recreational Commercial enterprise when you bought, built, procured and put up your
$300,000 home.
MR. HUNSINGER-Just looking at some of the Staff Notes, there was some requests for clarification,
and, well, I'll just read a couple of the comments that are here. I'm sure that you've reviewed and
received a copy of the Staff Notes also. It talks about clarification of operational hours. I think
you've pretty much done that in your presentation in your application, but it does go on to state
that the Code identifies outdoor concert events so that no activity occurs between 11 p.m. and 7
a.m.
MS. PARKER-Outdoor.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
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MS. PARKER-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-And then the other one I just wanted to ask, and I guess it's more of a question for
Staff, because I'm not really sure what you were getting at, and that's the last bullet. Conditions
such as timeframes for information to be submitted prior to the start of an event i.e. DOH sign-off,
promoter contract,safety contract,etc.
MRS. MOORE-So if the event has, he has 30 days before a liquor event. That information would be
submitted, a copy of that information would be submitted to our office so we can confirm that it's
been procured.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS.MOORE-And that's something that they did last year as well, I believe.
MS. PARKER-Why, I don't have a copy of what you're seeing. Am I not?
MR. KREBS-This is Staff Notes.
MR. HUNSINGER-This is on the Staff Notes.
MS. PARKER-I don't believe I have a copy.
MRS.MOORE-That information was forwarded to Mr. Barbone.
MR. HUNSINGER-It's also on the website,isn't it?
MRS.MOORE-Yes,it is also on the website.
MS. PARKER-Okay. Keep going. I'll address them all.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I guess that was more a question for Staff. I think the other comments, at
least I feel fairly comfortable that you've addressed. I don't know if other members of the Board
have additional questions on any of the Staff comments or any of the previous discussion. I guess
just to circle back,maybe one of the other questions. You've talked about security,and you pointed
out that there would be security there 24/7. Has the size of the security detail, is that going to be
based on the size of the event or the number of customers? So how do you?
MS. PARKER-Absolutely. Size of (lost word), size of the security, the number of port-a-potties, all
those of that is based on advanced ticket sales. That's why the advanced part is so key to be able to
market the promoter,so that you can have an idea of,like for, even at this point if we had somebody
come in (lost words) I don't know if there'd be enough time to promote on line. So that one is the,
oh, gosh, now how many people, we don't want how many people do we think are coming and we
want on line ticket sales,etc.so you can judge,that's the goal.
MR. DEEB-Well,have you made provisions for limiting the number of tickets sold,in the event,and I
think you would like this, if it got way too big for the area? I mean, I know your comment was you
don't limit the number of skiers coming in.
MR. BARBONE-How can you stop that?
MR. DEEB-Well, if parking ends up going down the road for three,four miles,five miles.
MR. BARBONE-That's going to happen under my control. My control is my gate and over. If these
people come in and want to watch fireworks and park along, I've seen them park down Pitcher
Road and down Corinth Road to watch free fireworks. How do we stop that?
MR. DEEB-I don't know. I do realize that traffic is the purview of this Board,traffic problems.
MS. PARKER-On the positive side, if we know that there's people coming and we have a sense of
that,then you're absolutely correct. We have a whole other parking lot that we can address. There
are shuttles, and this, again, would cause more, you know, coming to the Town and getting more
approvals or bringing more to light to the Town.
MR. MAGOWAN-That's the whole point of doing this, so you can get a count, so you know what to
anticipate.
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MS. PARKER-Maybe we need to put a shuttle in place and shuttle between the two, because we
don't want people walking on the streets.
MR. DEEB-Well,that's a solution.
MR. HUNSINGER-I think there's a big difference between, you know, a half an hour to an hour
fireworks show and a day long or a weekend event, and I think a day long or a weekend event, you
do have more control over the size of the crowd.
MS. PARKER-Absolutely, and you, the Town, know when we're having fireworks we certainly have
to get a permit for that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,you have to get a permit,yes.
MS. PARKER-I mean, so the fireworks we had this past winter were in fact actually on a Wednesday
night procured by a private corporation that came in to us, booked an event with Ski West
Mountain,went through all the proper steps,Alonzo Fireworks. Proper permits for fireworks, etc.,
and we, as a corporation, just so everybody knows this, they wanted the fireworks after 10 o'clock
and we're the ones who insisted and said, absolutely not. It's a school night, they've got to go off
earlier. So we did insist that they were prior to 10 p.m., as a courtesy. Again,there's no ordinance,
but as a neighbor, and a father with children, school night, we said no, you know, it's got to be
before 10.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, and I can appreciate some of the comments made by some of the residents
about fireworks. I live near Glen Lake,and you cannot imagine how often in the summertime there
are fireworks going off around Glen Lake at 11, 12 o'clock at night on a work night, and they're
illegal. They're illegal fireworks. They're not properly permitted through the Town.
MS. PARKER-I live on Lake George up in Bolton. I can't tell you how many times the Sagamore just
decides to have fireworks,you know,every Thursday,the Fourth of July,the whole bit.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. I mean, the Town of Queensbury is very good about requiring the fireworks
be permitted.
MR. BARBONE-You said the magical word. Queensbury is on it. They're not going to make us do
anything we shouldn't be doing.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Any other questions,comments from the Board?
MR. TRAVER-I had a question on, and I guess you don't have this in front of you, but in the Staff
comments, under hours of music, number five, under infrastructure, it says music, if applicable, is
proposed from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. outside. Inside music will play from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Because
previously tonight you spoke about music going until 4 a.m. So I just wondered,is it?
MS. PARKER-No, what happens, sir, is that there are bands inside that go all day, 11 in the morning
until 4,until we stop serving alcohol, and then outside the outdoor stage is, or stages,depending on
who comes and what, those are the ones that we cutoff strictly at 11 at night. So we do move the
music indoors.
MR.TRAVER-Okay. So that should be 4 a.m.
MR. KREBS-A.M.,right.
MR.TRAVER-Not 4 p.m.
MR. MAGOWAN-Not p.m.
MR.TRAVER-So the music is going to be going all except seven hours of the day.
MR. MAGOWAN-So change that to a.m.?
MR. KREBS-Yes. Well,that's based on the liquor license.
MR. BARBONE-Right.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MS. PARKER-Yes,we don't, I mean, obviously, again,bigger authorities,you know, State Liquor,that
trumps a bunch of us. They say no, we button right up. The same as with the Town. We don't
want to jeopardize anything that'll involve our future.
MR. HUNSINGER-I have a question for you, Laura. Only because this has not happened in quite a
long time. The County Planning Department recommended a deny without prejudice. Now
because of that we need a super majority.
MRS.MOORE-Yes,you do need one.
MR. HUNSINGER-So we need five people,because the majority is four.
MRS.MOORE-So a supermajority is five.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Does everyone on the Board understand the question? Because, again,
that hasn't happened in a long time.
MR. KREBS-Right,we need five positive votes.
MR. HUNSINGER-To take action on this application.
MRS. MOORE-I do have one question. The audience and you have also brought up that when it's
inside it creates a reverb. Is there any opportunity to look at the structure inside? Have you
evaluated to see if there's any soundproofing that you could do interior?
MR. BARBONE-I guess what we need to do is concentrate on the bass more than the music.
MS. PARKER-My response on that would be to tell them to keep the bass on low versus incurring
more expense, and especially should we soundproof before we get approval, should we wait until
after? How much can we spend to attempt to get approval?
MRS. MOORE-The other comment I have is to the Board. I understand the applicant's desire to
move to a 2014 date,but I would suggest an opportunity to have a review at the end one,you know,
one season,have just a general overview of how that season went,say if the applicant could come in
November, convenient to them and convenient to when our times are, is to do an overview of the
success or activities that went on during the shallow months of the 2012 year, and then again in
2013, come back, or 2014, sorry come back again in 2014 and then you can move forward,but if we
have that one year, just an overview of, you know, what do you need to improve upon, you know,
what did we miss in review period, and maybe they've been able to procure someone for two years,
say yes, we have a person that's procured for two years or say, you know, we've been approached
to have another event in,you know,earlier than in May,say they've,you know,you never know.
MS. PARKER-We wouldn't do that, and again, what you're not taking into consideration, in my
humble opinion, is the fact that once from November to March, we're in ski mode. I work seven
days a week. So it's ski mode for the three months that we bring 150,000 skier visitors in during
that three months. So my recommendation, I'm happy to do that, but I think it needs to be a year
from now, again, after the season closes. Because the length of time it took to prepare for this was
astronomical in its own right, and to be able to stop that in November when I'm trying to get school
programs,passes,ski shows. November, I'm on the road with shows.
MR. TRAVER-On the other hand, it is a compromise from what I suggested, which was a short
review, prior, not on the larger issues, but on the specifics of each individual event ahead of time.
This would not require that,but would require a review at the end of the season,and prior to.
MS. PARKER-Here before the Board?
MR.TRAVER-Yes.
MR. MAGOWAN-I mean, basically it's not where you have to prepare all these paperwork. It's
basically you're going to come in and pretty much have a discussion of, look, these are the
complaints that came in. This is what we have to work on, or we had no complaints, this was a
success.
MRS.MOORE-So you hear it.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MS. PARKER-If this Board could tell me that such and such a date, come in before you, I would be
more than game for that, but the calling with the, maybe this month and maybe if you're tabled it's
going to be the first, maybe the third. Again,we're planning on traveling with shows. If you could
come in with a precise time and date on when this would happen, I'd be happy to schedule it in,but
the hurry up and wait is a bit difficult for us.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, I mean, I'm having a little difficulty with that, I'm sorry, I appreciate the fact
that it's difficult to put together a site plan application. I really do, and I'm the first person to say
that we should not require every site plan permit to be done by a licensed professional engineer,
but the dates on your application are all early February. We have a February 1Sth deadline to get on
the agenda in March.
MS.PARKER-Yes,and I apologize for that. My meetings prior to that obviously were, I couldn't even
get in. I didn't know, and again, I kept going, where is it on the website and I have witnesses that
went to the meeting and we sat there in shock before Craig Brown and said, really, so I missed
February? And how did I miss that? It's on the website. So the three phone calls that I've left you
unanswered,you couldn't help me with this?
MR. HUNSINGER-That shouldn't happen.
MS. PARKER-Exactly.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. I'm glad I asked the question.
MS.PARKER-Yes,exactly.
MR. BARB ONE-Gentlemen,we have approvals for a zip line and coaster at West Mountain.
MR. HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. BARBONE-If I get funding for it, and that goes up this summer and fall, and I was approved for
it, I mean, I've gone through site plan, parking, everything, and as of today, nothing's there, and
we've been approved for both parking lots, both facilities, everything, and as of today, I cannot
come up with the funding, so that has not happened yet. So, what I'm saying is that we've gotten
approved for two amusement rides,very large amusement rides, and we're talking about tents and
people playing music.
MS.PARKER-Which is going to be temporary.
MR. BARBONE-I am just totally, I am confused as of today. Major, major rides, to five million
dollars.
MS. PARKER-And hopefully if this all happens and we get, approve this,we may not need festivals if
we get funding for,you know, I mean,but I guess we've come full circle. We're just simply trying to
augment our business to allow us to be a year round business, and not go into the red every
summer in order to provide the ski ability and the ability for everyone to ski at our mountain in the
winter.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. What's the will of the Board? There's been a lot of discussion. There's
been a lot of information provided by the applicant that isn't necessarily, well, I guess it's all in the
application. It's just not as clear as we've drawn it out in this discussion.
MR.TRAVER-Yes,I mean, again,it's my personal feeling that really what we're talking about tonight
is not really a solution. I think that some kind of temporary permit for say 18 months with a
review at the end of this season is, I think it makes a lot more sense to try to work, have the
applicant and us and the Town work together to try to look carefully at what events they have
throughout the season, so that, in the Fall we can come up with a long term approval, so that they
have predictable, we know what the parameters are. We've looked at the noise issues and so on
and we can really define what the parameters are, what are acceptable, and then give them a long
term plan, so that we don't have to go through this. I think giving them a short term approval and
hoping that things are going to work out, I know they're clearly going to make every effort, and we
have parameters that we've established for the October event. We could use something like that,
but that's a short term solution,and I think if they really wanted to change their business model,it's
worth some extra time on the Town's part, on our part, and some extra time on their part to try to
develop what we need to do with this site, so that we can have a long term approval. I know we
can't do that tonight, but that's my feeling. I mean, nobody's going to be happy if we, I'm very
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
concerned that it's not going to be successful if we give them an open-ended approval and then
we're back right where we started from,you know,with some people happy and some people very
unhappy. I think if we invest some extra time over the summer to work with them and take a look
at,give them feedback,you know, regarding each event,not on the whole site plan,but on condition
it somehow on the specific parameters of the promoter,we could come up with a much better long
term solution. I know that's not the way we typically operate, but I think it's worth the investment
for, to make this more likely that this business model will succeed and, you know, the Town will
have greater benefit. They'll be able to get more of a long term commitment from, as someone
commented, you know, maybe an upper scale promoter, whatever, but I just think this, you know,
this Special Use Permit I don't think, as a number of us have commented, is really intended for this
kind of activity, and I think we need to be flexible, and I think the applicant needs to be flexible to
try to come up with a way that we can work through this this year so we can solve all these issues.
Instead of having a temporary permit,we come up with a long term solution. We're not going to be
able to do that unless we work together,event by event by event, for one season until he develops a
relationship with these people that are coming back every year. That's my opinion. On the other
hand, if we wanted to do the other suggestion of issuing a permit maybe including the parameters
that we worked with them on and they were very helpful to us in October, or I guess it was
September when they wanted the October event. I would be find with that provided we did some
kind of review at the end of the season,but I think that's a very short term, I think we're going to be
right back where we started from.
MR. MAGOWAN-I think that really, for Mike's purpose of what he has to do, we have to give him a
permit so he can get the promoters to call, and if we don't give him a permit and try to do, you
know,project by project,it's not going to happen from him. He's going to walkout the door tonight
and we won't see him again,and I hate to see.
MR. TRAVER-I understand. That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that we come up with
something that we try to accommodate this business by conditioning, by approving, but with
conditions.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, I like that idea. I mean, my idea is, I was with Don here, you know, I was
thinking giving him the approval and then there's two dates on October, 15th or the 22nd,to sit down
and review and see how the season has gone and see what has come in,because we don't know,and
like I said, you're late in the season, and it's not going to be fair to, you know, if we don't get
something big enough to,but you know the concerns. You know what you're up against,you know,
with everyone around, and I do think that you guys will do your best to make everyone happy,you
know.
MR. TRAVER-And that's certainly a much simpler solution than what I'm suggesting. No doubt
about it, but my concern is in the Fall he's still not going to know, necessarily, who's going to be
coming. He won't be empowered by us to engage with longer term commitments from his people,
so we'll be right back where we started from. He won't necessarily know who's going to be coming
to the next events. Do you see what I'm saying?
MR. MAGOWAN-But he's going to have the guidelines and knows of the people that do come. I
mean, it's like I said,we don't know how many people are coming to the Balloon Festival. There's a
standard protocol.
MR. TRAVER-But the Balloon Festival is what it is. Hopefully they're going to have some diversity
in the events that they have.
MR. MAGOWAN-But over the years we know and it's become predictable, but here we don't know
because it hasn't really happened and he's trying to survive.
MR.TRAVER-I understand.
MS. PARKER-We are already working with the West Glens Falls Fire Department because we
missed this year. Next year is the 125th anniversary of that Fireman's Parade, and West Glens Falls
Fire Department has its contract for two years. So I am already working on a bid for June of 2014
to try to get, procure that. I mean, you're right. These are things I know that are out there. As
Director of Sales and Marketing, I, if I'm doing my job correctly, am already putting bids in and
trying to get,so you're absolutely right,gentlemen,without the permit of.
MR. MAGOWAN-And we're not just talking music. I like some of the other functions, and what was
it, the warrior run. I mean, that turned out to be huge. How would you have known? But that
turned out to be,and,you know,everybody, I'm going and going.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MS. PARKER-And again,it comes back to the fact that we were not able to sell the tickets on line.
MR. BARBONE-Windom Mountain, throughout the years, I believe, as of last year, they have 5,000
competitors. They started off small and look where they are today.
MR. MAGOWAN-It's a big thing. That was the, not that I'm on Facebook, but I have a lot of people
that are, and, you know, everybody was going, and I think, you know, like I said, without securing
something where you can get a count,you don't know,and you can not,in my opinion.
MR. BARBONE-I'm not breaking your chops, but I would like to tell my mortgage company this.
How are we going to be able to pay them this summer?
MS. PARKER-And you're right though,too, I mean, even if you're not competing in that competition,
your family went to cheer you on,you know,so even with one competitor it was like a family of four
or five came to enjoy,you know, and let's hope we can have a barbecue right next door to it.
MR. HUNSINGER-Don, did you have anything that you wanted to say?
MR. KREBS-Well, I was just going to say that I still believe the dates that I suggested from March 26,
2013 to October 31, 2014 are correct, and then I put some additional conditions on the draft, and
that is that no open fires will be allowed,maximum of six multi-day events each season, a maximum
of eight one day events each season. No outdoor concert music or activities after 11 p.m. That's
what I would suggest.
MR. TRAVER-And so you're, the draft that you're working on, Don, does not have a condition of a
review in the Fall?
MR. KREBS-No. No,because I think if we're going to allow them to try and book the best promoters,
the promoters, the best promoters are going to want multiple year sites, because that's how they
build their customers.
MR.TRAVER-Exactly,I agree.
MS. PARKER-In my opinion on this,your review, not so much a meeting with review,but you'll get
your feedback from the Mike Palmer's, the Fire Marshal, you know, you'll get your feedback from
these people as they inspect.
MR. KREBS-Yes.
MS. PARKER-You're going to be the first to know if something's out of compliance, they'll be the
first to let you know,wait,you can't do this or, and as Mr. Barbone has said,you all have the ability,
the State Liquor Authority, you all have the ability to shut it down if it's not in accordance. So I'm
not adverse to meetings at all, but I do feel that is also the person that's going to, your fire
inspectors, etc. are going to let you know. If we're not doing something right,you're going to hear
it.
MR. HUNSINGER-What's your feeling,Dave?
MR. DEEB-Well, I tend to agree with Steven that you're right,we will get feedback, no doubt, but I
would much rather have a face to face with you two in the Fall of 2013, and just to review and look
at it and see what can we do to improve this, what can we do? What needs to be refined? So, I
mean, I'm all for going to 2014 as far as the temporary license,but I still think we need to sit down,
okay, and I need to go back a little bit, just for clarification. If this is successful and your income
does increase enough,you're talking about going to have the zip line.
MR. BARBONE-Yes.
MR. DEEB-But what if this becomes so successful you let the zip line go?
MR. BARBONE-No,absolutely not. Absolutely not. What I'm saying,what I said is that we had gone
through the whole process for a major ride.
MR. DEEB-I understand that.
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MR. BARBONE-So I'm saying if the zip line got up and going and became successful, I have friends
that own a couple of them and I know that they are very successful.
MR. BARB ONE-Absolutely.
MS. PARKER-Wouldn't that be great to have that weekend with the zip line, with the festival with
the firemen zip lining and.
MR.DEEB-Well,would you reduce the number of festivals?
MS.PARKER-We certainly could.
MR. BARBONE-Well,we probably would have to because we don't have the parking.
MR. DEEB-Yes,right.
MR. TRAVER-I understand your point of view about,you know, the zip line appears to be, and is in
many respects, environmentally and so on on paper, a much bigger deal than having a music
concert. The difference is that that's very predictable, okay. It has the same effect when it's
operating,the same effect when it's not operating. What you're proposing, and I know people have
talked about a blank check, and that's not what it is, because we do have conditions, but you're
basically, you know, you're not sure what events you're going to have, and we can accommodate
that,too,but there is an unpredictability there that is absent in a zip line. Do you understand what
I'm saying? So we're trying to come up with a mechanism that will give you the freedom to
experiment,but give us the opportunity to review. We don't need to review every time the parking
lot and the tents and all the rest of it,but there may very well be some things that we will all benefit
from reviewing, so that we, our confidence level grows and at some point you have a permit that
goes on and on and on, and by that time you have a relationship in this industry and with vendors
and so on. I mean,that's my feeling of the better way to go.
MR. BARBONE-In this whole process,why can't we look at an application so that it's much easier for
the next person to fill out and submit? Why do we have to go through the process of what we're
going through if there's guidelines on an application, so maybe we should all work together and
make it work so that instead of handing somebody a site plan review, we hand them an application
for an event,and that event will have the guidelines, and be.
MR. KREBS-And that's not something that we can create. The Town Board has to create more on
the line of that kind of regulation.
MR. BARBONE-I understand. Absolutely.
MR.TRAVER-But we could develop the mechanism.
MR. KREBS-We could certainly make suggestions to the Town Board.
MR. HUNSINGER-You know, and I think a huge part of why we struggle with this is because your
venue is so unique in the Town. I mean,it quite literally is the only event like it. So,you know,just
by its very nature,you know,we're going to have a hard time fitting it into the norm.
MR. KREBS-It is a little unique in a sense because it's a ski area that's going to have bands,but every
summer, in the middle of Glens Falls, Crandall Park Downtown park, you have concerts. At
Crandall Park on Glen Street, I know I'm a Rotarian. We do the water walk every year. We have a
band there during the water walk. When the first night of a Thursday of Balloon Festival, there's a
band there. I mean,that's in a relatively residential area. Okay. So this is not totally unique to the
community.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well,that's in Glens Falls. It's not in Queensbury.
MR. KREBS-I know it's not in Queensbury.
MR. TRAVER-You can't possibly compare that, the concert in the park with what they're talking
about. I mean,I'm sorry.
MR. HUNSINGER-The question that I pose, somewhat rhetorically, is I'm getting a sense from the
Board, a temporary approval with a review. The concern there is if we grant some sort of
temporary approval,what is the review,the legality of the review,I mean,if they go ahead and book
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
an event for next summer, and then they come in to the review this Fall and they say, gee,we have
to change all these parameters, I mean,they, I like the idea of the review and I think it's good to get
the neighbors involved again and to have additional public comment, but I'm just trying to
understand how that really fits into the approval process this evening.
MR.TRAVER-Yes. I mean,what I would envision,I suppose,one way,potentially,to proceed would
be if this would be something that, kind of like what Mr. Barbone was suggesting, a different
process where a specific event would be approved with the baseline parameter is the traffic and the
location and so on, the hours and so on, pre-approved, maybe that's something that would require
the Town Board to act upon, in which case something that we could do would be to approve, with
parameters, events,if we were able to approve a certain number of events for the season and get a,
ask the Town Board to work with us so that by October we would have developed this process for
West Mountain to help the Town and to help West Mountain, so that we would have, then, a
narrower, much simpler process. Perhaps it wouldn't even involve coming to the Planning Board,
unless certain parameters were exceeded, and they could simply go to the Planning Office. I'm
thinking of something like a building permit or something like that. We don't have that in place
now, and I think, and that's why I say I think the Special Use Permit is not really intended, as you
yourself observed, Mr. Chairman, it's not really intended for this unique business in Town. So we
can issue a permit and have all kinds of,you know, you've got to cut the music out at this time and
do all that kind of thing, but that's not really a long term solution, and I think, I'm not seeing any
reason why we can't come up with a long term solution, if Mr. Barbone and his staff are willing to,
because I know they want one as well, and there's no point that we should have to conduct this kind
of review year after year when essentially the same events are going to be happening. So perhaps
we can petition the Town Board to work with us,have a workshop or something,where we could, I
mean, there must have been some discussions about other types of activities that are somewhat
similar and say look, let's come up with a two tiered perhaps process where we issue a site review
of some kind with security and Board of Health and all this kind of stuff, and then there's simply an
approval for a particular event, in terms of the music type, and therefore maybe different types of
music we might want to have different hours or if it's a daytime versus a nighttime event,whatever,
to accommodate so that they can plan long term, because right now, and even if we give them
approval tonight,they're still not going to have a long term business plan.
MR.HUNSINGER-Right.
MR. TRAVER-And that's really what they need, so that they can hire someone to do this so that, I'm
sorry, I forgot your name,you can concentrate on the skiing season and you have a staff person who
does nothing but work on this event,and there'll be something going on all the time.
MR. BARB ONE-Absolutely right, and it's not even long term. Sue Parker could talk to five events in
the middle of January,get the applications together and submit them in.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, and that's what I, I mean, I guess I've been inarticulate in making the point, but I
think from the time I started looking at this application, you know, it just seems as though really
what we need to do is agree to work together, not in one night, but for one season, and come up
with a thing and say, well, here's something that we did, this really didn't work. Maybe it won't
work for you either. Here's something that was really successful. We can do more of that, or
whatever it is. Some of that is really out of the purview of this Board, but it's certainly something
that I think any business deserves. It's something that the Town has done to accommodate other
new businesses in the area,and I don't really think it would be all that difficult.
MS. PARKER-And I think future residents as well. What is the decibel, what is too loud? What is
too loud for the Town of Queensbury? There is no noise ordinance. It's uncharted territory for us.
MR. TRAVER-Hopefully over time there will even be specific vendors that will be coming back, and
they will know.
MS.PARKER-Exactly.
MR.TRAVER-I'm sure if you talk to, and believe me, I am not a musician,but I'm sure that if you talk
to musicians that go from site to site to site, they probably develop a cheat sheet for every venue
they go to that says when we're at West Mountain, the base can't be above this. If we're at
Whiteface Mountain you can crank it up all you want,because that's their livelihood.
MR. HUNSINGER-An interesting observation. Three or four years ago when The Fun Spot was here
for their site plan review and they put in an expanded go kart race and everything, this place was
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
packed,just like it is tonight, with neighbors because of noise concerns, and they put in some noise
deadening inside the building.
MR.TRAVER-Yes, I remember that.
MR. HUNSINGER-And there wasn't one person here tonight for the public hearing.
MR.TRAVER-That's a good point,yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. So, I mean, you know, that's a good example of how, you know, we've been
able to work through a process and they've benefitted both the business and the neighborhood.
The fact that there was not one complaint from the neighbors when three, four years ago the room
was packed,you know,really speaks volumes for how the process can work sometimes.
MR.TRAVER-Yes,and,I mean,you know, as.
MR. MAGOWAN-Excuse me, Steve. Even the promoters might even have some kind of sound
absorbing things that they're,they haven't brought up yet. Is there anything that we can.
MR.TRAVER-They didn't know they needed them.
MR. MAGOWAN-Didn't know they needed them, you know, I'm sure they're out there. I mean, I've
been in restaurants where I've gone in you can't hear, and the next time go in you see the, you
know, they have stuff on the ceiling that looks like, you know, and it's totally, you know, calming
now.
MR. KREBS-But you're now talking indoor,and he has.
MR. MAGOWAN-Well, no, I'm just saying that you could still do it on the outdoors because they've
done it at SPAC,they've done sound absorbing,you know,fabrics and that.
MR.TRAVER-I mean,realistically,I guess,with what we have before us tonight,if we were to issue a
Special Use Permit through next season,conditioned on a review in October of this year.
MR. HUNSINGER-Is October the better month?
MR.BARBONE-Yes. That would be fine.
MR.HUNSINGER-I mean,because we could do it in September or November.
MR. KREBS-And just so you know,that when we're talking about a review,it doesn't mean that you
have to fill out all the site plan again. We might even have a special meeting for,because we'll have
a lot of interest from the public, and just have you come before the Board and we'll discuss it.
MR. TRAVER-Yes. I think we could ask them for, to prepare for information as a part of the
condition for that meeting, we could ask them how many events did you have, for each event, how
many people were registered, generally what type of event was it, comment on any problems you
had, any phone calls, anything reported by your security or concerns that the fire department had,
those types of,you know, records, I'm sure we'll have public comment as well, and in the meantime
if we can encourage the Town as a whole to take a look at this permitting process for venues like
yours,maybe that would happen before October,who knows,but it in the meantime we would have
something in place so that you could at least have some window that you would know about, and
then if we're working on a long term solution,that's,you know, I think in the long run only going to
make sense for everybody.
MR. HUNSINGER-We have meetings scheduled on October 15th and October 22nd.
MS.PARKER-They're both Tuesdays.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes, they're both Tuesdays. We always,well, I shouldn't say we always, nine out
of twelve months. There's three Thursday meetings this year. We always do in May because of
Tax Grievance day.
MR.TRAVER-And that doesn't count the third meetings that we have occasionally.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes,or the fourth.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MRS. MOORE-Just a note to the Board is that the deadline for submission date is September 16th. If
you want to,you have information that you'd like me to provide guidance so that they can respond
to that information.
MR. TRAVER-I think from us, if we can provide them with public comment that we've received,
either electronically or in written form, by the deadline for the October meeting date, and then if
they can provide by that deadline date information to you on what events did they have,how many
individuals attended to the best of your knowledge. You do track that,I assume,right?
MS. PARKER-That's the beauty of those little computer ticket machines.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, and then any issues that were reported to you by, you know, your emergency
personnel, your security or your EMS people, not that that necessarily means that there was a
problem with the event,but it would be interesting for us to know.
MS.PARKER-Absolutely.
MRS. MOORE-And they can provide that as a narrative so they're not filling out forms and providing
a narrative.
MR.TRAVER-Basically, I mean,it's on the record anyway. I think that if we just communicate to the
applicant as we're doing that the object of the exercise for October, should we reach that point
without another solution, is for them to be able to give us as much feedback from their perspective
as to what the season was like as possible, so that we can try to imagine what the following season
would be like, because we will have already had a permit for that conditioned on the review in
October, and then if in the meantime we could come up with something else that would be,
whatever.
MR. HUNSINGER-You just need to get that information in time to distribute it. There's no, you
know,engineering review or anything else.
MRS. MOORE-No, but I want to make sure I'm able to put together that information so that they're
aware that they need to submit something by September 16th to us. The other comment in your
October meeting is right now you're only giving them until 2014, and if I'm understanding correctly,
that's only a year, and sometimes you have a vendors or promoters that would like a two year
guarantee, and that's only one year. Do you want to comment on that and give me a little feedback
whether we need to look at,in October,that you might need to extend that timeframe.
MR. KRE BS-Now we're talking October '14. So you're going to have October of '13 we'll have a
review,but their temporary permit is through October'14. So that's two summer seasons.
MRS.MOORE-Okay,but right now you're missing part of your summer season this season.
MR.TRAVER-Well,there's,you know, I mean,what can we do about that?
MR. BARBONE-I mean,we could get two August events.
MRS. MOORE-Okay. I just didn't want, I want to give you enough opportunity to determine that
there may be more than the events that were identified, so that you could have a June. So right
now you may be missing June right now.
MR. BARBONE-Yes,absolutely.
MRS.MOORE-Okay. You're missing June right now.
MS. PARKER-Yes,we're going to try to book for this summer.
MRS.MOORE-But you're missing June'13,whereas next year you'll have June'14.
MR. BARBONE-Here's hoping.
MRS.MOORE-Okay.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I certainly think that you can, I mean, I certainly would in your place
communicate to your vendors that you are working with us to try to work cooperatively to come up
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
with a way that you can not only accommodate next year but years, you know, afterwards that
we're really just trying to.
MS. PARKER-Yes, and the people I've even spoken to, who even though we didn't get this year, like
the fire department for example, okay, shoot for next year already. So we have expressed that with
them.
MR. TRAVER-Yes, I mean,we're really just trying to make the site work in the community. I mean,
that's really all we're trying to do. We're not interested in, I mean, we certainly want you to be
successful,but I think we need to come up,we need to recognize this is a special situation.
MRS. MOORE-Does the Board also want to consider having those signoffs prior to an event start
date, and those prior to an event start something submitted to the office such as their Department
of Health permit,their liquor,the promoter contract and the safety contract?
MR.TRAVER-Well,that's already required,is it not?
MRS. MO ORE-That's their requirement. Does the Board want to require that information as part of
the resolution? They're willing to do it,do you want it as part of your resolution?
MR. KREBS-But it's already required.
MR.TRAVER-It's already required. So why would we need to?
MRS. MOORE-To us. Do you want a copy of that information provided to the Planning Office for
their files?
MR. HUNSINGER-Who gets it now?
MS. PARKER-We retain it.
MRS.MOORE-They retain it.
MR. TRAVER-So you're required to get it, but we don't receive any proof that you actually got it, is
that what you're saying? That's not what I understood.
MR. MAGOWAN-No,they have it on file and we issue the permit,right?
MS. PARKER-Correct.
MRS.MOORE-But not necessarily for the liquor or DOH.
MR.TRAVER-Yes, I mean, I don't think that's necessary.
MR. MAGOWAN-I don't think that's necessary.
MR.TRAVER-We're not concerned about those. Those are not issues at least of concern to me.
MRS.MOORE-Okay.
MR. KREBS-And we don't have any authority over either of them anyway.
MRS.MOORE-Okay. I just wanted to confirm.
MR.TRAVER-Thank you for bringing it up.
MR. MAGOWAN-Thank you.
MR.TRAVER-I mean, I wouldn't know what to do about that anyway.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes.
MR. MAGOWAN-Unless Dave wants more reading.
MR. DEEB-I don't mind. I like reading.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MR. HUNSINGER-This was warned as an Unlisted action?
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay,and they submitted a Short Form?
MRS.MOORE-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay.
MRS.MOORE-Did you close the public hearing?
MR. HUNSINGER-No, I did not. I was just about to. I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. HUNSINGER-And we'll move on to the SEQR review.
MR. KREBS-"Does the action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR Part 617.4?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Will the action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted Actions in 6
NYCRR, Part 617.6?"
MR. MAGOWAN-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Could the action result in any adverse effects associated with the following: C1.
Existing air quality, surface or ground water quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic
patterns,solid waste production or disposal,potential for erosion,drainage or flooding problems?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-I mean, one of the questions is noise levels or traffic patterns. Do you think
there's a potential for noise and traffic?
MR.TRAVER-Well,they're operating under the, I mean,we haven't made the motion to approve yet,
but assuming that we're going to be operating under the general conditions that we approved
previously, I was thinking that we would be okay with that.
MR. HUNSINGER-Good point. Okay. Thank you.
MR. KREBS-Maybe that's not a good assumption, but I thought if that's going to be in the motion
that, you know, the conditions that we've already approved for the prior event, hopefully we're
covered.
MR. HUNSINGER-That's right. You're right.
MR. KREBS-Okay. "C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, archeological, historic, or other natural or cultural
resources; or community or neighborhood character?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C3. Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or
threatened or endangered species?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
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(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MR. KREBS-"C4. A community's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or
intensity of use of land or other natural resources?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"CS. Growth, subsequent development or related activities likely to be induced by the
proposed action?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C6. Long term,short term, cumulative or other effects not identified above?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-"C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or energy)?"
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the
establishment of a Critical Environmental Area?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-"Is there or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse environmental
impacts?"
MR. HUNSINGER-No.
MR.TRAVER-No.
MR. KREBS-Based on that, I move that we grant a Negative Declaration.
RESOLUTION WHEN DETERMINATION OF NO SIGNIFICANCE IS MADE
RESOLUTION NO. 11-2013, Introduced by Donald Krebs who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Stephen Traver:
WHEREAS,there is presently before the Planning Board an application for:
MIKE BARBONE,and
WHEREAS, this Planning Board has determined that the proposed project and Planning Board
action is subject to review under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
NOW,THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:
1. No Federal agency appears to be involved.
2. The following agencies are involved: NONE
3. The proposed action considered by this Board is Unlisted in the Department of
Environmental Conservation Regulations implementing the State Environmental Quality
Review Act and the regulations of the Town of Queensbury.
4. An Environmental Assessment Form has been completed by the applicant.
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
S. Having considered and thoroughly analyzed the relevant areas of environmental concern
and having considered the criteria for determining whether a project has a significant
environmental impact as the same is set forth in Section 617.11 of the Official Compilation
of Codes, Rules and Regulations for the State of New York, this Board finds that the action
about to be undertaken by this Board will have no significant environmental effect and the
Chairman of the Planning Board is hereby authorized to execute and sign and file as may be
necessary a statement of non-significance or a negative declaration that may be required by
law.
Duly adopted this 26th day of, March, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr.Schonewolf, Mr.Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. Do you want to read off your special conditions again?
MR. KREBS-Yes.
RESOLUTION GRANTING TEMPORARY SUP # 11-2013 MIKE BARBONE
A site plan application has been made to the Queensbury Planning Board for the following:
Applicant proposes single and multi-day music festivals with outdoor concert, food &merchandise,
vendors and camping. An Outdoor Concert event in the RC zone requires Planning Board review
and approval.
A public hearing was advertised and held on 3/26/2013;
This application is supported with all documentation, public comment, and application material in
the file of record;
MOTION TO GRANT A TEMPORARY SPECIAL USE PERMIT NO. 11-2013 MIKE BARBONE,
Introduced by Donald Krebs who moved for its adoption,seconded by Stephen Traver:
As per the resolution prepared by staff with the following conditions:
1) Pursuant to relevant sections of the Town of Queensbury Zoning Code-Chapter 179-9-080,
the Planning Board has determined that this proposal satisfies the requirements as stated in
the Zoning Code;
2) SEQR: The requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act have been considered
and the Planning Board has adopted a SEQRA Negative Declaration;
3) Waiver requests granted for stormwater mgmt.,grading,landscaping&lighting plans;
4) Term of validity: The term of validity for the temporary special use permit will be from March
26, 2013 to October 31, 2014;
5) No open campfires will be allowed;
6) A maximum of six (6) multi-day events each season, and a maximum of eight(8) one day events
each season;
7) No outdoor concert music or activities after 11 p.m.,
8) And we will have a review after the first season on October 22, 2013, and they (the applicant)
will submit data on how many people attended,etc. by September 16, 2013.
9) Final approved plans, in compliance with the Site Plan, must be submitted to the Community
Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or Building
and Codes personnel.
10)The applicant must meet with Staff after approval and prior to issuance of Building Permit
and/or the beginning of any site work.
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
11) Subsequent issuance of further permits,including building permits is dependent on compliance
with this and all other conditions of this resolution.
Duly adopted this 26th day of March,2013,by the following vote:
MR. HUNSINGER-It goes without saying it's in accordance with the draft prepared by Staff?
MR. KREBS-Yes.
MR. HUNSINGER-Just one point of clarification.
MRS. MOORE-Clarification on no open fires. They do have an open, in their site plan it does show a
bon fire pit. Are you saying no to that type of open fire or no open fire?
MR. KREBS-Campfires.
MRS.MOORE-Campfires,okay,just for clarification.
MR.TRAVER-I thought you had said you didn't allow any fires during these events.
MRS.MOORE-They don't.
MR.TRAVER-That doesn't include your fire.
MS. PARKER-Correct. The only fire that's allowed is our big bon fire area.
MR.TRAVER-Gotcha.
MS. PARKER-Controlled burn area with the appropriate extinguisher.
MRS.MOORE-So I would ask that you clarify that it's no campfires.
MR. KREBS-Right.
MR.TRAVER-I'll second the motion as amended.
MR. HUNSINGER-And just for a point of clarification on the review on October 22nd, we will have a
public hearing on that to solicit comments from the neighbors and the public in general, because, I
mean,a review doesn't really,it's not a normal.
MRS. MOORE-But you are under a Special Use Permit and so that you have that opportunity to,
because you can grant things temporary or permanent or temporary with conditions,you have that
opportunity to add your review. So there's no,the Special Use Permit section of the Code indicates
that you have that review opportunity. You can review it at any point in time for a special permit.
MR. HUNSINGER-I just wanted to make it clear that the intent was that there be a public hearing at
that date.
MR. TRAVER-The only other I guess more mechanics would be following what I hope to be an
approval here tonight,how to communicate with the Town Board on the larger issue that maybe we
could take a look at working with them to develop something to approve event by event.
MRS. MOORE-I think your Special Use Permit section of the Code,you may want re-visit that area of
the Code, but I think it does provide that information, maybe it's not clear in the Site Plan
application. A Special Use Permit needs to be reviewed in that sense so it's clearer for applicants
coming in for special uses.
MR. HUNSINGER-Well, I mean, one of the things that the applicant talked about was the application
itself, and there's nothing in the Code that speaks to the application. I mean, that's something that
was developed by Staff and then approved by this Board.
MR.TRAVER-Right.
MR. HUNSINGER-So if it's just an application form,that's something that's within our purview. So,I
think, I don't know if it needs to be in the motion that we'll address it.
44
(Queensbury Planning Board 03/26/2013)
MRS. MOORE-I think after you've made your motion, maybe you can consensus give direction to the
Staff that we should re-evaluate the Special Use Permit, whether there's an application or
something else that needs to be clarified.
MR. HUNSINGER-A separate motion. Any additional discussion? Call the vote, please.
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr. Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-Good luck.
MR. KREBS-Good luck.
MR. HUNSINGER-We'll see you in six months.
MS. PARKER-I'm looking forward to a good summer.
MR. HUNSINGER-Yes. Okay. Before we adjourn, I'm not sure how we want to say that motion.
MRS. MOORE-You don't necessarily need to say a motion, but by consensus, you know, by
consensus as a Board you're making a comment to the Staff that you would like us to evaluate that
Special Use Permit and application format. It is something that I foresaw when I first came on
board.
MR. HUNSINGER-Okay. So this was already on your radar. Okay. Great.
MR.TRAVER-And maybe we could request a workshop.
MR. KREBS-And we could apply this, too, not only to an event like this, but, you know, where they
do the shoe sale up on (lost words) do an entire site plan review to put a tent up for two weeks is
crazy.
MR.TRAVER-Yes. We need to come up with another.
MR. HUNSINGER-Any other business to be brought before the Board?
MRS.MOORE-I don't have anything.
MR. HUNSINGER-Who would like to move a motion to adjourn?
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY PLANNING BOARD MEETING OF MARCH 26. 2013,
Introduced by Brad Magowan who moved for its adoption,seconded by Donald Krebs:
Duly adopted this 26th day of March, 2013, by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Traver, Mr. Krebs, Mr. Magowan, Mr. Deeb, Mr. Hunsinger
NOES: NONE
ABSENT: Mr. Schonewolf, Mr.Sipp
MR. HUNSINGER-Thank you.
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Chris Hunsinger, Chairman
45