08-28-2024 (Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
Q UEENSBUR YZONING BOARD OFAPPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
A UGUST 281r,2024
INDEX
Area Variance No. 41-2024 True North Cannabis,LLC 1.
Tax Map No. 2SS.-1-5S
Sign Variance No.5-2024 AJ Signs S.
Tax Map No. 30S.16-2-2.3
Sign Variance No. 6-2024 AJ Signs 11.
Tax Map No. 30S.16-2-2.2
Sign Variance No.7-2-2024 AJ Signs 14.
Tax Map No. 39.13-2-31.2
THESE ARE NOT OFFICIALLY ADOPTED MINUTES AND ARE SUBJECT TO BOARD AND STAFF
REVISIONS. REVISIONS WILL APPEAR ON THE FOLLOWING MONTH'S MINUTES(IF ANY)AND
WILL STATE SUCH APPROVAL OF SAID MINUTES.
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QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
SECOND REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 28TK,2024
7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
MICHAEL MC CABE,CHAIRMAN
JAMES UNDERWOOD,VICE CHAIRMAN
ROY URRICO,SECRETARY
JOHN HENKEL
RONALD KUHL
ROBERT KEENAN
RICHARD CIPPERLY
LAND USE PLANNER-LAURA MOORE
STENOGRAPHER-KAREN DWYRE
MR. MC CABE-Good evening. I'd like to open tonight's meeting of the Queensbury Zoning Board of
Appeals, Wednesday, August 2S`h, 2024. If you haven't been here before, our procedure is relatively
simple. There should be an agenda on the back table. We'll call the applicant up,read the case into our
record,allow the applicant to present the case. We ask questions of the applicant. If a public hearing has
been advertised,then we open the public hearing,take input from the public,close the public hearing,poll
the Board and proceed accordingly. So the first case tonight is AV 41-2024,True North Cannabis.
NEW BUSINESS:
AREA VARIANCE NO. 41-2024 SEQRA TYPE TYPE II TRUE NORTH CANNABIS, LLC
AGENT(S) JON C. LAPPER,ESQ. OWNER(S) 1471 ST.RT. 9 LLC ZONING Cl LOCATION
1471 STATE ROUTE 9 APPLICANT PROPOSES TO USE AN EXISTING 2,000 SQ. FT. SPACE
WITHIN A NEWLY CONSTRUCTED SHOPPING PLAZA OF 8,335 SQ. FT. FOR USE AS A
RETAIL CANNABIS BUSINESS. RELIEF REQUESTED FOR THE SEPARATION DISTANCES
FROM AN AMUSEMENT CENTER AND PARK. CROSS REF SP 43-2024; SUP 4-2024; AV 49-
2022;SP 68-2022;FWW 13-2022;SUP 6-2022 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING AUGUST 2024
LOT SIZE 199 ACRES TAX MAP NO.288.-1-58 SECTION 179-2-010;179-3-040;179-10-040;179-
10-070(EE)
JON LAPPER&JOSH SILVER,REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff,Area Variance No.41-2024,True North Cannabis,LLC,Meeting Date: August 2S,2024
"Project Location: 1471 State Route 9 Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes to use an
existing 2,000 sq ft space within a newly constructed shopping plaza of 5,355 sq ft for use as a retail
cannabis business. Relief requested for the separation distances from an amusement center and park.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for the separation distances from an amusement center and park.
§ 179-10-079(EE)(2) prescribes a 1,000 foot separation distance between retail cannabis businesses and
parks and amusement centers. Gurney Lane Recreation Area(park)is approximately S50 feet west from
the subject property, and physically separated from it by I-ST Lumberjack Pass Miniature Golf
(amusement center)is located approximately 700 feet north of the property. Note that the applicant has
requested a waiver from the requirement for a survey. So these distances are approximate.
Criteria for considering an Area Variance according to Chapter 267 of Town Law:
In making a determination,the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this area variance. Gurney Lane
Recreation Area is unlikely to be detrimentally affected if the variance is granted, due to it being
physically separated by I-ST The Lumberjack Pass property is within walking distance along Route
9.
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2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. Feasible alternatives that may be considered
include finding a location that complies with the separation distance prescribed by § 179-10-
070(EE)(2).
3. Whether the requested area variance is substantial. The variances requested are for 15-300/o relief
from the separation distance requirement.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. Minor to no impact to the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood may be anticipated. The applicant proposed no
changes to the existing site conditions.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self created. The difficulty may be self-created.
Staff comments:
The Town zoning regulations regarding retail cannabis businesses originated with the Town Board
adoption of Local Law No.: 2 of 2023in January,2023.
No changes are proposed to the previously approved development plans of this property, including the
storage units at the rear. The variances requested are required for the proposed occupancy of a retail space
by the retail cannabis business. There are three other occupancy spaces in this plaza,including a proposed
Subway restaurant."
MR. URRICO-And then the Planning Board,based on its limited review, did not identify any significant
adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated with the current project proposal. And that was adopted August
27`h,2024 by a unanimous vote.
MR. ZAPPER-Good evening,everyone. For the record,Jon Lapper with Josh Silver. Josh is a resident of
Saratoga Springs and he operates five adult retail cannabis facilities in Maine, Massachusetts and New
York. He recently opened one in Saratoga. He knows the business very well. We were at the Planning
Board last night for the recommendation. The Planning Board had reviewed and recommended these
standards to the Town Board last year when the law was being proposed. The Town Planning Board also
reviewed and approved the site plan for this facility, and they unanimously recommended this with these
two variances we need. The location in the Commercial Intensive corridor is where these facilities are
supposed to go. It's just finding a lease that is suitable. This was slightly closer to these facilities, the
1,000 feet,we'll talk about that in a minute,but this is brand new space that would work out really well
for Josh's business, and there wasn't anything else that he found, you know, 300 feet away, but our
argument is that it doesn't impact any of those two uses. First of all,to talk about the Gurney Lane park,
that's a non-issue because it's the Northway, probably a mile and a half to drive over the bridge by the
Municipal Center to Gurney Lane Park. So that's not even a consideration. That's not even close,across
the Northway. The Lumberjack Pass won't see any impact whatsoever. We measured it. Door to door
it's 1,000 feet from the two facilities, but that's not what the Code says. The Code says property to
property, and that's the 700 feet,but we just don't see how we'd be impacting the miniature golf facility.
You can't see this facility from that,and this isn't any type of consumption business,obviously. It's just a
retail business. The Planning Board thought that that all made a lot of sense to them,and that's why they
recommended it. So,you know,pretty straightforward. Going into a brand new plaza,the retail center
of the Town. We think it's an appropriate location and we don't see any impact from putting it there and
Josh is available to answer any questions on operational or anything else.
MR. MC CABE-Do we have questions of the applicant?
MR. KUHL-I've got a question. Have you got a use permit? Have you gotten a use permit?
MR. SILVER-From the State?
MR. KUHL-From the Town? It talks about you need a use permit to open up your business.
MRS. MOORE-Right. So it'll come back to the Planning Board next week.
MR. KUHL-So you don't have a use permit.
MR. ZAPPER-You mean a Special Use Permit.
MR. KUHL-Correct.
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MR. ZAPPER-So last night we went to the Planning Board for the recommendation. Then we come here
to the Zoning Board, and if we're successful here we go back to the Planning Board next month for the
Special Use Permit.
MR. KUHL-Sure,you go back to them and say okay the Zoning Board approved us so you should. Well I
don't think you should be here unless you have that use permit. That's the first issue.
MRS. MOORE-No,that's not how it works.
MR. KUHL-Okay,that may not be how it works,but that could sway my decision.
MR. ZAPPER-So we meet all the standards for the Special Use Permit except for these two that we're off
by a few hundred feet. All the other standards we meet,and the Planning Board,knowing that they would
be looking at the Special Use Permit in a month,recommended that you approve it. So we know that the
Planning Board is going to approve a Special Use Permit.
MR. KUHL-Okay. Also,Mr. Silver,Brandon McKee,what is he,COO?
MR. SILVER-He is my COO.
MR. KUHL-And it talks about in your documentation that he gives a lot of seminars. Have you come to
the Town to offer a seminar to educate us about this? Being as how this is the first facility in our Town.
MR. SILVER-I have actually.
MR. MC CABE-First of all,you have to identify yourself.
MR. SILVER Joshua Silver, True North Cannabis. I have. About two years ago I gave a seminar at
Adirondack, SUNY Adirondack, for cannabis. That was the first time they ever did anything like that.
They reached out,or excuse me,I reached out to them and arranged an in person seminar. It was attended
by about 30 people.. We talked about the business of cannabis. We talked about how it's developed
across the country, how it's developed in the Northeast. We talked about my experiences being one of
the first operators in the northeast. Then about a few months after that I gave a presentation to the Town
Board in Queensbury as they were considering adopting rules. At that point they didn't have any zoning
regulations whatsoever. So I came to the Town. I talked to Stu. I actually reached out to Stu and made
this recommendation. I said you guys are going into the abyss here. You don't have any zoning in place.
You should let me talk to the Board and hear from my experience,and they did that,and then a few months
later they passed a zoning ordinance. So I've been in front of this Town a few times.
MR.KUHL-Okay. I guess I just never got an invitation. Well I'm not on the Planning Board. I'm only on
the Zoning Board. That's okay.
MR. MC CABE-Other questions?
MR.HENKEL-Yes. Since you've owned these dispensaries,have you ever had any robberies or any break-
ins?
MR. SILVER-No.
MR. HENKEL-Because I know I did some research on them and,you know,back in 2002,between April
and November there was 117 break-ins and there were a few fatalities,people died in shoot-outs. I mean
one of our criteria is, Number Four here, is to protect the environment, the neighborhood. What's the
plans on,what are you going to do to make this a safe facility?
MR. SILVER-So we opened a,Jon was incorrect. This is not my fifth dispensary. This will be my eighth
dispensary and my ninth,including one,I developed one and sold it in 2021. So,we have a lot of experience
building these out, and we've been,let's see, Maine,Massachusetts and New York, and Vermont, and it's
all,even though the rules in those different jurisdictions vary more or less,the game plan is more or less the
same. I do checkpoints upon entry to make sure that you're not allowing any sales to minors. You have
controlled access points throughout the building. You have a controlled access point at the front door.
You have a controlled access point in the interior vault,what I call the interior vault. It's just a segregated
room where all of the inventory is stored overnight. Nothing stays.
MR. HENKEL-So it's like a vault.
MR. SILVER-It's a vault, yes. We call it a vault. It is a vault. But northing stays on the sales floor
overnight. We basically have,we haven't designed this facility yet,but we have two ways of doing it here.
We have racks that come out during the day and they clip on the sales floor or sometimes we do fulfillment
actually in the vault depending on the size of the vault we can do. It depends on how the operation's run.
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All or the areas where either cash or marijuana is handled are closed circuit video. It's backed up in case
of a power outage. We have battery backups that let the cameras run even when everything else is off in
the unit so we can continue to collect video. So if somebody cut the power,we'd still be able to connect
the video,and of course we have alarm systems and we have motion detectors and all the doors have sensors
on them. So we've had, I know how fast we get responses because the sensors, they tend to go off on a
very windy night. Sometimes it'll rattle the glass or it'll kind of shake a door loose. It's happened to us
several times, across dispensaries over the years, and,you know,you go back,you check the video. You
see what happened. You see the door rattle, and within seconds I'm getting a call. The police have been
dispatched. They at the site in moments. Here we've got the benefit of being very close to the Municipal
Center where the police are. I expect the response time to be under a minute. So safety I think was really
baked into all the State's regulations. It's definitely baked into our operating plans, and we take it very
seriously.
MR.HENKEL-From what I read,it seemed like there was a lot of smashing,you know,cars going through
the front of the building,when I was doing research on it.
MR. SILVER-One of the interesting developments of the cannabis industry that's occurred is that,
especially in the early days,it was very much a cash business. These companies were unbanked. They
kept large reserves of cash on hand. That's not the case anymore. Fully SO% of our transactions are
through debit cards. We've kind of solved that banking problem over the past,four,five years.
MR. ZAPPER Just to reiterate also,though,John,the sheriff is less than a mile away from us.
MR. HENKEL-It only takes a few seconds to smash the door. I mean look what happened in Saratoga
with those,it only took seconds.
MR. SILVER-We're open in Saratoga. We're certainly aware of that robbery. My wife actually owns a
retail store a few down from where that occurred. So if someone's going to drive a truck through it,there's
not a lot I can do. I think we've got all the security.
MR. HENKEL-I was just looking after the neighborhood. Thank you.
MR. KUHL-I have a question,if I may. I've been in a cannabis store,in another State. You've got three
areas,correct? They come in. They identify themselves,then you send them to a staging area. Then they
go into the vault. Is that the way you set your stores?
MR. SILVER-So, I mean, the first area, they're not, we've done it in other States. The regulations have
changed,but the man trap area,we don't use that anymore. The State doesn't require it anymore,and it,I
think, creates kind of a hostile environment. So the ID check point's right when you come in the door.
It's a kiosk. It's not like a mantrap or a sally port.
MR. KUHL-Are you going to,I mean are you at a point of limiting the amount of people that can go from
Area One to Area Two to the vault?
MR. SILVER-I would love get there. We've had,you know, again,we've done this many times. We've
never been so business that we've had to throttle that. I will say we were in business in Williamstown in
2020 when all the businesses were closed during COVID,when we were allowed to re-open with curbside
business,and some of the technology that developed out of that,we still use today,and the biggest one,it's
called order ahead. So essentially an order,to place an order at my store during COVID,you would have
had to log on-line and make your,you know,select your items. You couldn't purchase it on line. You had
to come to the store to get it, through the transaction, or through a remote point of sale system in the
parking lot, but you had to select a time slot. So what we found is that we could throttle the traffic,
because it got really busy. I mean people were sitting at home smoking a lot of pot if you can imagine it in
2020. So it got very busy, and we had to throttle the traffic to certain times of day, and we did it very
successfully, and we do that with using the on-line platform that we still use today. So if there was ever
an event where the, you know, we were getting complaints that the store is too busy, first of all, yes, I
would love that, but I have the tools built into my point of sales system to throttle that and move those
customers to different time slotted appointments.
MR.KUHL-My experience was a lot of years ago,and probably the first State in our country,but they only
let one in the staging area,one in the vault. When you went into the vault,you just had all the counters
and you and the sales person. Is that the way you do it,or you let multiple people go into your vault?
MR. SILVER-Well,nobody goes into the vault, nobody except for our employees, so there's a vault area.
There's a sales floor area.
MR.KUHL-Excuse me. I guess I'm talking about the sales floor. Okay. Where the counters were,where
your product was in it.
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MR. SILVER-Yes,and we do,we allow multiple people inside. We have non-cannabis. We carry a lot of
books and a lot of ketch nick knacks and they're on the sales floor. So people like to browse them. We
have menus,digital menus that change kind of daily. So people come in and they browse the menu. They
browse the non-cannabis products on the sales floor and then when they're ready the mosey on towards
the point of sale where they place their order, complete the transaction. It does result in having several
people in the store at the same time,and in Saratoga,which is our busiest store,we do have a little queuing
area,too,so that when people are ready to make their order,there's a spot for them to line up and signal to
the point of sale clerks that they're ready to place an order.
MR.KUHL-Could you share with us the highest number of people,on your busiest,how many busy days?
Do you get 10 high years a day? Do you get 20 high days? When you have a high day,how many people
are in your facility?
MR. SILVER-So a very busy day for us is between 350 and 400 customers.
MR. KUHL-Really?
MR. SILVER-But it's throughout the course of the day. So we're open from 10 o'clock to S p.m. So You're
talking about 10 to 12 people an hour,if it's spread out evenly. That was Williamstown during COVID.
We haven't really gotten back to those numbers. Across our dispensaries we're around 150 to 200
customers a day, and that's, you know, when we model these out, that's what we have Queensbury
modeled as,around that area.
MR. KUHL-Thank you. I have one more question for Mr. Lapper. Do you know about the other stores
in that strip mall,whether they're rented or not?
MR. ZAPPER-So the owner of that strip mall is Russ Faden who has all the Subway franchises. He was
before the Town getting approved. Two years ago I represented Frank Parillo who sold him the property.
So the only thing that's rented,as far as I know,is Russ's Subway. So there's two more spaces to be rented.
MR. KUHL-Okay. Thank you.
MR. URRICO-I have a question. I was going to ask about the time,but you gave that. Is that going to be
year round time? Is it going to be steady for the year?
MR. SILVER-Yes. It wouldn't be more than that. I can see a scenario where it gets a little bit slower at
points in the year. Maybe we want to open a little bit later or close one day a week,but we're thinking 10
to S,seven days a week.
MR. URRICO-And then are the other stores, what's the closest operation you have to the one here,
Saratoga or Vermont?
MR. SILVER-Saratoga.
MR. URRICO-Saratoga. Okay. Is it in a similar location? Do you share space with other businesses?
And how does that work out?
MR. SILVER-Great. So my first store in Williamstown was in a shopping plaza that was not as nice as
the shopping plaza that Russ is building,but it worked out great. We actually came in. We had neighbors
on either side of us,there were some vacancies there, and then by the time we are actually still there,but
that shopping plaza has completely turned around and I think in large part because we were driving a lot
of traffic. We had a few hundred people there a day,and I think that's the idea behind the shopping plaza
so that there's some sort of stimulus. So we've never had any issues with our neighbors in Williamstown.
Our neighbor in Saratoga, it's a two unit shopping plaza. It's a dental office, and you know,we see the
dentists and their hygienists in the store,you know,a couple of times a week.
MR. KUHL-What's the address?
MR. SILVER-It's 75 Weible Ave.
MR. KUHL-Weible. Okay. Thank you.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I assume your operation has been consequence free,then? You've not been sued by
anybody or cited by the community you've been operating in over the years?
MR. SILVER-No. Yes, quite the contrary. We've got great relationships with every municipality we've
been in. We have a,you know,we have a full time position at our company that's devoted to community
engagement. She was at Habitat for Humanity in Massachusetts, just a few days ago, posted on her
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Instagram. So,you know, it's really that relationship between the town and the operator and this very
highly regulated business is really the one that we value the most.
MR. UNDERWOOD-Are there issues with people using product as soon as they walkout the door? Or
is that not an issue?
MR. SILVER-It's happened,you know,and we've confronted customers about it. It hasn't happened in a
while but we're not allowed to do under our license. So,I mean,nobody stands to lose more than us. Just
to give you some context,I've been working with Charlene for this particular license,partner here,for two
and a half years. So,you know,those type of existential threats,you know,we try to take very seriously.
MR. MC CABE-Other questions? A public hearing has been advertised. So at this time I'm going to open
the public hearing and see if there's anybody out there who would like to address us on this particular
project? Do we have anything written,Roy?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. URRICO-Nothing written.
MR. MC CABE-So I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MC CABE-I'm going to poll the Board,and I'm going to start with Roy.
MR. URRICO-I understand everybody's a little bit,we want to be careful because it's the first time we've
done something like this,but I think on face value,when you consider that the two 1,000 foot separation,
Gurney Lane and the miniature golf course, Gurney Lane really doesn't play except if you look at it
overhead, if you're a bird or something flying over. The Lumberjack Pass, I just don't see it being that
much of a challenge to you. So I think it's a good application. I wish you luck.
MR. MC CABE-So you support it?
MR. URRICO-I do support it. Yes.
MR. MC CABE-Ron?
MR. KUHL-What you're asking for is within bounds. The only thing that gives me pause or hesitation is
that the other, only one of the other three are rented out. I would prefer you going into an existing
shopping center. So I'm against it based on the occupancy on that strip mall.
MR. MC CABE John?
MR. HENKEL-I think it's a good use of that. It's a, I won't say a similar business, but it's not really a
neighborhood where people live, and the Lumberjack miniature golf is very seasonal. It's not year round.
So it really doesn't affect them. It doesn't affect Gurney Lane,of course,because it's across the other side
of the Northway. So I think it's a good fit. I'd be on board.
MR. MC CABEJim?
MR. UNDERWOOD-I think Staff failed to identify the fact that the bike trail is within 1,000 feet of where
this is proposed, and the bike trail also generates significant traffic. I have concerns about,you know,if
everybody showed up sober and straight to pick up their weed, I don't think there'd be a problem,but I
think you have instances of people who are already under the influence. It's a very high traffic area of the
Town. I think the Planning Board needs to take into account,too,there's a lot of traffic stacking. There's
a lot of passive use of the area for people traveling back and forth across the road in front of all the strip
malls that are there. So I'm not in favor of it at this point.
MR. MC CABE-Dick?
MR. CIPPERLY-In terms of the applicant's request for separation distance variance, I support the
application.
MR. MC CABE-Bob?
MR. KEENAN-I think it's probably a good placement of this business, we don't quite follows the rules
here,but I don't think I have any issues with it,so I'd support this.
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MR. MC CABE-And so as I look at this, it's really not that bad, but it's our first application. We have
experience with this whatsoever to say whether the 1,000 feet is, you know,just a nominal number or
hopefully that somebody,you know,took some time to figure this out,and with no experience,I don't see
how we can say,yes,it's okay to grant a variance here. So I don't support it,but I'm only a single vote and
you've got enough votes right now. So,with that in mind, I wonder if, Bob, could you give us a motion
here?
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from True North
Cannabis LLC. Applicant proposes to use an existing 2,000 sq It space within a newly constructed
shopping plaza of 5,355 sq It for use as a retail cannabis business. Relief requested for the separation
distances from an amusement center and park.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for the separation distances from an amusement center and park.
§179-10-070(EE)(2) prescribes a 1,000 foot separation distance between retail cannabis businesses and
parks and amusement centers. Gurney Lane Recreation Area(park)is approximately S50 feet west from
the subject property, and physically separated from it by I-ST Lumberjack Pass Miniature Golf
(amusement center)is located approximately 700 feet north of the property. Note that the applicant has
requested a waiver from the requirement for a survey,so these distances are approximate.
SEQR Type II—no further review required;
A public hearing was advertised and held on August 2S,2024.
Upon review of the application materials, information supplied during the public hearing, and upon
consideration of the criteria specified in Section 179-14-OSO(A)of the Queensbury Town Code and Chapter
267 of NYS Town Law and after discussion and deliberation,we find as follows:
1. There is not an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood nor a detriment to nearby
properties because the variance is minor in terms of the distances required.
2. Feasible alternatives have been considered by the Board and are reasonable and have been included
to-minimize the request.
3. The requested variance is not substantial because we find that the distances to the two properties
is not substantial.
4. There is not an adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood
or district.
5. The alleged difficulty may be considered self-created.
6. In addition,the Board finds that the benefit to the applicant from granting the requested variance
would outweigh (approval) the resulting detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the
neighborhood or community;
7. The Board also finds that the variance request under consideration is the minimum necessary,-
S. The Board also proposes the following conditions:
a) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
BASED ON THE ABOVE FINDINGS, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AREA VARIANCE NO.
41-2024 TRUE NORTH CANNABIS LLC, Introduced by Robert Keenan,who moved for its adoption,
seconded by John Henkel:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024 by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Cipperly,Mr.Henkel,Mr.Keenan,Mr. Urrico
NOES: Mr. Kuhl,Mr. Underwood,Mr. McCabe
MR. MC CABE-Congratulations,you have a project.
MR. ZAPPER-Thanks,everybody.
MR. SILVER-Thank you.
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MR. MC CABE-Our next application is SV 5-2024 AJ Signs,9 Carey Road.
SIGN VARIANCE NO.5-2024 SEQRA TYPE UNLISTED AJ SIGNS AGENT(S) KRISTEN MAC
LEOD OWNER(S) HUDSON HEADWATERS HEALTH NETWORK ZONING CLI LOCATION
9 CAREY RD. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO UPDATE SEVERAL SIGNS FOR THE HUDSON
HEADWATERS COMPLEX AT 9 CAREY RD. THE PROJECT INCLUDES 2 FREESTANDING
SIGNS, 2 DIRECTIONAL SIGNS, AND 2 WALL SIGNS. FREESTANDING (MM2) 24 SF LESS
THAN 15 FT SETBACK(EXISTING IS 13.4 FT). SECOND FREESTANDING(BM4)MUSE(MORE
THAN 1 FREESTANDING SIGN). DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE(D2&z D3) GREATER THAN 4 SF.
ALLOWABLE WALL SIGNS ON WEST &z NORTH ELEVATIONS WILL NEED PERMITS.
RELIEF FOR MORE THAN 1 FREESTANDING SIGN, OVERSIZED DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE,
AND FREESTANDING SIGN SETBACKS. CROSS REF SP 45-2018; SV 4-2017; SP 47-2007
WARREN COUNTY PLANNING AUGUST 2024 LOT SIZE 2.16 ACRES TAX MAP NO.308.16-
2-2.3 SECTION 140
TOM WHEELER,REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Sign Variance No. 5-2024,AJ Signs,Meeting Date: August 2S,2024 "Project Location:
9 Carey Road Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes to update several signs for the
Hudson Headwaters complex at 9 Carey Rd.The project includes 2 freestanding signs,2 directional signs,
and 2 wall signs.Freestanding(MM2)24 sf less than 15 ft setback(existing is 13.4 ft). Second freestanding
(BM4)11.11 sf(more than 1 freestanding sign). Directional signage (D2&D3)greater than 4 sf.Allowable
wall signs on west&north elevations will need permits. Relief for more than 1 freestanding sign,oversized
directional signage,and freestanding sign setbacks.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for more than 1 freestanding sign, oversized directional signage, and
freestanding sign setbacks.
Section 140-signs
One free standing sign(MM2)is currently 13.4 ft setback where a 15 ft setback is required. More than one
free standing sign(BM4). Directional signage greater than 4 sf(D2&r D3).
Criteria for considering a Sign Variance according to Chapter 140 of Town Law:
In making a determination,the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this sign variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as the site will contain more signs than allowed.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue,other than a sign variance. Feasible alternatives may be considered to adjust
the number of signs.
3. Whether the requested sign variance is substantial. The relief requested may be considered
substantial relevant to the code. The relief requested for the number of freestanding signs,directional
signage size,and freestanding sign setback.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The project as proposed may have
minimal impact on the environmental conditions of the district.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-created.
Staff comments:
The applicant proposes signage for the entire campus for Hudson Headwaters Healthcare Network. The
plans show the location of the freestanding signs,the directional sign sizes,and the number of signs."
MR.WHEELER-I'm Tom Wheeler with AJ Sign Company.
TODD EICHER
MR. EICHER-Todd Eicher from Hudson Headwaters.
9
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
MR. EICHER-Basically what we're looking to do is modify some signs at the Carey Road campus. There's
three separate parcels. This is Parcel Number One. We'll get to the other two. The first sign is actually
an existing sign. We want to change the face. It's really just a face change for the main monument. We
have a directional sign. The directional signs area little larger than allowed. We walked this and studied
this and determined that we need something a little bigger just so that cars can actually read these signs.
Hudson Headwaters has had a lot of trouble with people going to the wrong buildings. Elderly people go
to the wrong place and then they're,you know, 15 minutes late for their appointment when they finally
they get to the right place. So really the ultimate goal here is to get people to the right practice. There's a
lot going on over there and it's quite confusing. Again,there's more directional signs,make them a little
larger so they're more readable. People have their eyes on the road longer,when the signs are bigger they
can look at them,read them and try to get where they're going. In summary that's really what we're looking
to do is way finding and get people to the right practice.
MR. MC CABE-Do we have questions of the applicant? A public hearing has been advertised. So at this
particular time I'm going to open the public hearing, see if there's anybody out there who would like to
address us. Do we have anything written,Roy?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. URRICO-Nothing written.
MR. MC CABE-So I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MC CABE-I'm going to poll the Board,and I'm going to start with John.
MR. MC CABE-I'm not really big on a lot of signs,but this does make sense. I mean there's about 10 acres
and there are quite a few buildings and I mean most people know they're going therefor a reason. It's not
like they're driving by and saying I'll stop in and get a blood test. So,yes,I'm on board as is I guess.
MR. MC CABE-Ron?
MR. KUHL-This complex really needs this. You were here once before,but for this one,yes. This area
needs the signage. I've gone to the wrong building. So I am in favor of it the way it is presented, Mr.
Chairman.
MR. MC CABE-Roy?
MR. URRICO-I'm in favor of the application.
MR. MC CABE-Bob?
MR. KEENAN-I have no issues. It's needed.
MR. MC CABE-Dick?
MR. CIPPERLY=No issues at all.
MR. MC CABE Jim?
MR. UNDERWOOD-It's a large campus. It's reasonable.
MR. MC CABE-And I support it,too. I got lost trying to find Building 6.
MR. EICHER-A lot of that add on comes from we changed the names of some of our buildings as well.
MR. MC CABE-Well,they're all numbers instead of letters.
MR. EICHER-Yes,we get a lot of complaints. Where are you guys? And Adirondack Radiology opened
across the road and that added more confusion.
MR. MC CABE-No problem. So,Dick,I wonder if you could give us a motion.
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from AJ Signs (for
HHHN 9 Carey Rd). Applicant proposes to update several signs for the Hudson Headwaters complex at
9 Carey Rd. The project includes 2 freestanding signs,2 directional signs, and 2 wall signs. Freestanding
(MM2) 24 sf less than 15 ft setback(existing is 13.4 ft). Second freestanding (BM4) 11.11 sf(more than 1
10
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
freestanding sign). Directional signage (D2&D3)greater than 4 sf.Allowable wall signs on west&north
elevations will need permits. Relief for more than 1 freestanding sign, oversized directional signage, and
freestanding sign setbacks.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for more than 1 freestanding sign, oversized directional signage, and
freestanding sign setbacks.
Section 140-signs
One free standing sign(MM2)is currently 13.4 ft setback where a 15 ft setback is required. More than one
free standing sign(BM4). Directional signage greater than 4 sf(D2&D3).
SEQR Type:Unlisted [Resolution/Action Required for SEQR]
Motion regarding Sign Variance No.5-2024.Applicant Name:AJ Signs (for HHHN)based upon the
information and the analysis of the above supporting documentation provided by the applicant,this
Board finds that this will not result in any significant adverse environmental impact. So we give it a
Negative Declaration,Introduced by John Henkel who moved for its adoption,seconded by Michael
McCabe:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr.Keenan,Mr. Underwood,Mr.Kuhl,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Henkel,Mr. Urrico,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
A public hearing was advertised and held on Wednesday,August 2S,2024.
Upon review of the application materials, information supplied during the public hearing, and upon
consideration of the criteria specified in Section 179-14-OSO(A)of the Queensbury Town Code and Chapter
267 of NYS Town Law and after discussion and deliberation,we find as follows:
1. Will an undesirable change be produced in the character of the neighborhood or will a detriment to
the nearby properties be created by the granting of the requested sign variance? We do not find there
will be an undesirable change in the neighborhood.
2. Can the benefit sought by the applicant be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to
pursue,other than a sign variance? We do not think that the benefit sought by the applicant could be
achieved by some other method. They're going to replace the sign.
3. Is the requested sign variance substantial? Even though some of the numbers are big,I do not think it
is substantial.
4. Will the proposed sign variance have an adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions
in the neighborhood or district? No.
5. Is the alleged difficulty self-created? Yes,but only so that they can provide better directions.
6. In addition, the Board finds that the benefit to the applicant from granting the requested variance
would outweigh (approval) the resulting detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the
neighborhood or community;
7. The Board also finds that the variance request under consideration is the minimum necessary,-
S. The Board also proposes the following conditions:
Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
(ZBA Board Member does Dot Deed to read the following A through F):
A. The variance approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval; you may request an
extension of approval before the one (1)year time frame expires;
B. If the property is located within the Adirondack Park,the approved variance is subject to review
by the Adirondack Park Agency(APA). The applicant is cautioned against taking any action until
the APA's review is completed;
C. Final approved plans in compliance with an approved variance must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or
Building&codes personnel'
11
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 08/28/2024)
D. Subsequent issuance of further permits,including sign permits are dependent on receipt of these
final plans;
E. Upon approval of the application; review and approval of final plans by the Community
Development Department the applicant can apply for a sign permit unless the proposed project
requires review, approval, or permit from the Town Planning Board and/or the Adirondack Park
Agency,Lake George Park Commission or other State agency or department.
BASED ON THE ABOVE FINDINGS I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE 5-2024,
Al SIGNS FOR HHHn, Introduced by Richard Cipperly, who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Ronald Kuhl:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico,Mr. Henkel,Mr. Kuhl,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Keenan,Mr. Underwood,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
MR. MC CAB E-You have one project. The next application is SV 6-2024,27 Carey Road.
SIGN VARIANCE NO.6-2024 SEQRA TYPE UNLISTED AJ SIGNS AGENT(S) KRISTEN MAC
LEOD OWNER(S) HUDSON HEADWATERS HEALTH NETWORK ZONING CLI
LOCATION 27 CAREY ROAD APPLICANT PROPOSES TO ADD A FREESTANDING SIGN FOR
HUDSON HEADWATERS COMPLEX AT 27 CAREY RD. PROJECT INCLUDES 1
FREESTANDING SIGN OF 8 SF AND IS TO BE 9.2 FT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE WHERE A
15 FT SETBACK IS REQUIRED. RELIEF REQUESTED FOR FREESTANDING SIGN SETBACK.
CROSS REF SP 38-2020; SP 10-2020; SP 39-2014;SP 52-2006 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING
AUGUST 2024 LOT SIZE 1.71 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 308.16-2-2.2 SECTION 140
TOM WHEELER,REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Sign Variance No. 6-2024,AJ Signs,Meeting Date: August 28,2024 "Project Location:
27 Carey Rd. Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes to add a freestanding sign for
Hudson Headwaters complex at 27 Carey Rd. Project includes 1 freestanding sign of 8 sf and is to be 9.2 ft
from the property line where a 15 ft setback is required. Relief requested for freestanding sign setback.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for freestanding sign setback.
Section 140-signs
The project includes one freestanding sign that is to be located 9.2 ft from the property line and 15 ft
setback is required.
Criteria for considering a Sign Variance according to Chapter 140 of Town Law:
In making a determination,the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this sign variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as the site will have sign closer to the property line
than allowed.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue,other than a sign variance. Feasible alternatives may be considered to adjust
the setback of the sign.
3. Whether the requested sign variance is substantial. The relief requested may be considered
minimal relevant to the code. The relief requested 5.8 It.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The project as proposed may have
minimal impact on the environmental conditions of the district.
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-created.
12
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
Staff comments:
The applicant proposes signage for the entire campus for Hudson Headwaters Healthcare Network. The
plans show the location of the freestanding sign and the sign detail."
MR. WHEELER-This one's a directional sign. It's a little closer to the road. There's actually a row of
trees there. If we don't move this up you can't see the sign. So we're just, again, directional,get people
where they need to go,and we want the sign to be visible,not behind the trees. We really don't want to
cut the trees down.
MR. MC CABE-Do we have questions of the applicant? A public hearing has been advertised. So at this
particular time I'm going to open the public hearing and take input from the audience. Seeing nobody,do
we have anything written?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. URRICO-Nothing written.
MR. MC CABE-So I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MC CABE-I'm going to poll the Board,and I'm going to start with Dick.
MR. CIPPERLY-I have no problem with this at all.
MR. MC CABE Jim?
MR. UNDERWOOD-It's on Carey Road. I don't think it's a problem. It doesn't distract drivers on the
main highway.
MR. MC CABEJohn?
MR. HENKEL-I agree with my Board members. No problem.
MR. MC CABE-Ron?
MR. KUHL-I have no issue.
MR. MC CABE-Roy?
MR. URRICO-I'm okay with it.
MR. MC CABE-Bob?
MR. KEENAN-I'm good with it.
MR. MC CABE-And I, too, support the project. I think what's being asked for is very minimal and it
makes sense to put a little bit bigger sign in rather than cut the trees down. Ron,how about if you give
us a motion here.
MR. KUHL-Thankyou,Mr. Chairman.
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from AJ Signs (for
HHHN). Applicant proposes to add a freestanding sign for Hudson Headwaters complex at 27 Carey Rd.
Project includes 1 freestanding sign of S sf and is to be 9.2 ft from the property line where a 15 ft setback is
required. Relief requested for freestanding sign setback.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for freestanding sign setback.
Section 140-signs
The project includes one freestanding sign that is to be located 9.2 ft from the property line and 15 ft
setback is required.
SEQR Type:Unlisted [Resolution/Action Required for SEQR]
13
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
Motion regarding Sign Variance No.6-2024.Applicant Name:AJ Signs (for HHHN)based upon the
information and the analysis of the above supporting documentation provided by the applicant,this
Board finds that this will not result in any significant adverse environmental impact. So we give it a
Negative Declaration, Introduced by John Henkel who moved for its adoption,seconded by Ronald
Kuhl:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Keenan,Mr. Cipperly,Mr.Kuhl,Mr. Underwood,Mr. Urrico,Mr. Henkel,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
A public hearing was advertised and held on Wednesday,August 2S,2024.
Upon review of the application materials, information supplied during the public hearing, and upon
consideration of the criteria specified in Section 179-14-OSO(A)of the Queensbury Town Code and Chapter
267 of NYS Town Law and after discussion and deliberation,we find as follows:
1. Will an undesirable change be produced in the character of the neighborhood or will a detriment to
the nearby properties be created by the granting of the requested sign variance? No,it's going to help
the people find their way into the proper building.
2. Can the benefit sought by the applicant be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to
pursue,other than a sign variance? No,this Sign Variance is needed.
3. Is the requested sign variance substantial? No,it's not,it's only because of our regulations.
4. Will the proposed sign variance have an adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions
in the neighborhood or district? No,it's going to help the people find their way into the complex.
5. Is the alleged difficulty self-created? You could say that,but it's our regulations that cause it.
6. In addition, the Board finds that the benefit to the applicant from granting the requested variance
would outweigh(approval) the resulting detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the
neighborhood or community;
7. The Board also finds that the variance request under consideration is the minimum necessary,-
S. The Board also proposes the following conditions:
Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
(ZBA Board Member does Dot Deed to read the following A through F):
A. The variance approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval; you may request an
extension of approval before the one (1)year time frame expires;
B. If the property is located within the Adirondack Park,the approved variance is subject to review
by the Adirondack Park Agency(APA). The applicant is cautioned against taking any action until
the APA's review is completed;
C. Final approved plans in compliance with an approved variance must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or
Building&codes personnel'
D. Subsequent issuance of further permits,including sign permits are dependent on receipt of these
final plans;
E. Upon approval of the application; review and approval of final plans by the Community
Development Department the applicant can apply for a sign permit unless the proposed project
requires review, approval, or permit from the Town Planning Board and/or the Adirondack Park
Agency,Lake George Park Commission or other State agency or department.
BASED ON THE ABOVE FINDINGS I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE 6-2024,
Al SIGNS ,FOR HHHNJ Introduced by Ronald Kuhl,who moved for its adoption,seconded by Michael
McCabe:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Henkel,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Urrico,Mr. Kuhl,Mr. Underwood,Mr. Keenan,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
14
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
MR. MC CABE-Congratulations,you have a second project. The next application is SV 7-2024.
SIGN VARIANCE NO.7-2024 SEQRA TYPE UNLISTED AJ SIGNS AGENT(S) KRISTEN MAC
LEOD OWNER(S) HUDSON HEADWATERS HEALTH NETWORK ZONING CLI
LOCATION 161 CAREY RD. APPLICANT PROPOSES TO UPDATE SEVERAL SIGNS FOR THE
HUDSON HEADWATERS COMPLEX AT 161 CAREY RD. PROJET INCLUDES 6 NEW WALL
SIGNS AND 10 FREESTANDING SIGNS. FREESTANDING (MM1) 64.2 SF RELIEF FOR
GREATER THAN 60 SF;FREESTANDING(BMI,BM2,.&z BM3)MORE THAN 1 FREESTANDING
SIGN;DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE(D4,D6,D5,D9)DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE GREATER THAN 4
SF; (D7&z D8) MORE THAN 1 FREESTANDING SIGN AND LESS THAN 15 FT SETBACK{D7 2.5
FT SETBACK&z D8 2 FT SETBACK};FAMILY HEALTH SIGNS 3.25 SF (2 WALL SIGNS) RELIEF
FOR MORETHAN 2 WALL SIGNS ON CORNER LOT(G&z F). ALLOWED SIGNS;WALL SIGNS
KINNEY ON EAST(B)&z NORTH(A)SEPARATE BUSINESS AND A CORNER LOT(WILL NEED
PERMITS). ALLOWED WALL SIGN SPECIALTY CARE WITH LOGO (C &z D) AND ONE
FAMILY HEALTH SIGN (E). RELIEF FOR MORE THAN 2 WALL SIGNS, MORE THAN 1
FREESTANDING SIGN, OVERSIZED DIRECTIONAL SIGNAGE &z FREESTANDING SIGN
SETBACKS. CROSS REF PZ 257-2016 WARREN COUNTY PLANNING AUGUST 2024 LOT
SIZE 69 ACRES TAX MAP NO. 309.13-2-31.2 SECTION 140
TOM WHEELER,REPRESENTING APPLICANT,PRESENT
STAFF INPUT
Notes from Staff, Sign Variance No. 7-2024,AJ Signs, Meeting Date: August 2S,2024 "Project Location:
161 Carey Rd/ Description of Proposed Project: Applicant proposes to update several signs for the
Hudson Headwaters complex at 161 Carey Rd.Project includes 6 new wall signs and 10 freestanding signs.
Freestanding (MMI) 64.2 sf relief for greater than 60 sf, freestanding (BMI, BM2, & BM3) more than 1
freestanding sign; Directional signage (D4, D6, D5, D9) directional signage greater than 4 sf, (D7 &r DS)
more than 1 freestanding sign and less than 15 It setback{D7 2.5 ft setback & DS 2 ft setbackJ; Family
Health signs 3.25 sf(2 wall signs) relief for more than 2 wall signs on corner lot(G &F). Allowed signs:
wall signs Kinney on east(B)&north(A)separate business and a corner lot(will need permits).Oversized
wall sign Specialty Care with logo (C &D) at 3S sf where maximum allowed is 30 sf. Allowed wall sign
one Family Health sign (E). Relief requested for more than 2 wall signs, more than I freestanding sign,
oversized directional signage,&r freestanding sign setbacks,and over sized wall sign.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for more than 2 wall signs,more than 1 freestanding sign,oversized directional
signage,&r freestanding sign setbacks.
Section 140—signs
One free standing sign MMl at 64.2 sf exceeds the 60 sf allowed at 25 ft setback. The plan includes five
additional freestanding signs (BMI, BM2, BM3); further D7& DS are freestanding signs where only one
free- standing sign is allowed. Setback relief needed for D7 where 2.5 It is proposed and DS where 2 ft
setback is proposed where a 15 ft setback is required. The direction signage D4,D6,D5,D9 greater than 4
sf. Wall signs proposed 2 (G &r F)where only one wall sign is allowed. In addition, Specialty Care with
logo is proposed at 3S sf where 30 sf is the maximum allowed.
Criteria for considering a Sign Variance according to Chapter 140 of Town Law:
In making a determination,the board shall consider:
1. Whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a
detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this sign variance. Minor
impacts to the neighborhood may be anticipated as the site will contain more signs than allowed.
2. Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the
applicant to pursue,other than a sign variance. Feasible alternatives may be considered to adjust
the number of signs and setbacks.
3. Whether the requested sign variance is substantial. The relief requested may be considered
substantial relevant to the code. The relief requested for the number of freestanding signs,directional
signage size,wall sign size and freestanding sign setback.
4. Whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district. The project as proposed may have
minimal impact on the environmental conditions of the district.
15
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
5. Whether the alleged difficulty was self-created. The difficulty may be considered self-created.
Staff comments:
The applicant proposes signage for the entire campus for Hudson Headwaters Healthcare Network. The
plans show the location of the freestanding signs,wall signs,the directional sign sizes,and the number of
signs."
MR. WHEELER-This is the last parcel. We're trying to get continuity amongst the whole campus. So
very similar to what we were asking for the last two. The first one,Kinney Drug,we want to add a sign
so if you're coming from the Northway you can see the Kinney Drug wall sign. Right now it's facing the
around. People aren't finding Kinney Drug. So this is a response to the complaint that people can't find
it. So we want to add that sign. They also had a logo change,color change. So that goes along with us.
And then the Specialty Care, again,we're just labeling a door so that people know where to go. Family
Health, we have the carport and the drive-thru. We're going to put Family Health on all sides of that.
Again, people can't find it there's really no way to find that now. We have a big monument sign by the
road. We're going to split that up a little differently and get some people on there that are not labeled at
all. So people can, again, find these practices. Same sign, same size,just a new face. So we have some
directory signs. When you pull up to the building,you'll see the practices that are in that building,out in
front of the buildings. Again,big enough so that you can read them and if we can get all the practices on
there. There's a few of those and we have the directional signs which match the others that were approved.
Same size,same font,same idea,just visibility and all these signs really respond to patient complaints that
they can't find where they're going.
MR. EICHLER-Can I just add to that. This campus,this parcel of land,we have three tenants within our
buildings. We have Kinney Drugs in the one building. We have Glens Falls Hospital and we have Saratoga
Hospital in the other buildings. So we have two tenants in addition to ourselves. Currently,the current
road sign does have Kinney Drugs and Saratoga listed. Glens Falls Hospital is not listed on the road sign.
They are not listed on any directional sign,again,so it's wayfinding. People don't know where to get their
lab draws and so we increased the tenants over the last couple of years. So some of that's in response to
that as well. As I mentioned earlier,we've changed both of our practice names there during the last,little
over a year ago,re-named them all. So that will address that, and we also feel that by adding 161 Carey
Road to the panel out by the road,that will help alleviate confusion with Adirondack Radiology across the
road and when people put in 161 in their GPS they can more easily find us. So that's some of why it's come
about.
MR. MC CABE-Do we have questions of the applicant?
MR. URRICO-Yes,my question is,you're expanding,you're adding more tenants,more cohabitants of the
facility. Is there any way to make the signs more changeable to the point where you can add sign, add
information without having to come back here each time to increase the size of the signs?
MR.WHEELER-It's all done with vinyl graphics. So,you know,typical wayfinding. If somebody moves
or changes,we can peel it off an put a different name on. Just by changing the sticker. So we wouldn't
need to change the size. So we've tried to make these big enough to accommodate what could come. I
think you guys are pretty much full at this point.
MR. EICHLER-Yes, I don't foresee us being able to take on anymore tenants in either of those buildings
without giving up space of our own,which we have no intentions of doing. We're pretty maxed out there
in the one building where there's two tenants. I don't foresee that happening,but if it ever did,like Tom
mentioned,the signage or the plates and the vinyl can be changed out.
MR. MC CABE-Other questions?
MR. KUHL-Yes,I had a question. When you were planning this,I assume,Todd,that you're the project
manager on this?
MR. EICHLER-Yes.
MR. KUHL-Did you come to the Town and ask them about pedestal signs and freestanding signs,what
the regs were? Because, I mean,you've 64.2 square feet, and our regs are 60. Do you know how many
inches you could take off of that and you could be a 60 square foot sign? And the Specialty Care,right,
that's over the entrance of the building on the right. Correct?
MR. EICHLER-Yes.
MR. KUHL-I mean that's 3S square feet where 30 is the regs. You could take some inches off that,too. I
just mean that your directional signs,there's a lot that's needed here. You're asking for an awful lot,but it
is needed because you're a special use facility, but I think that you're 64.2 square feet sign should be 60
16
(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
square feet,you know, pull an inch in all the way around and you could have it. I used to use a CAD
machine and I could do it on my CAD,but anyway. That, I just, I just think that you should have done
that homework and not have to ask for those two small things.
MR.WHEELER-The one sign's existing,the one that's 62,the 110 by 77.
MR. KUHL-That's the main monument one.
MR. WHEELER-Yes. That's already there. We're going to take the faces out, add divider bars in so it's
got metal divider bars between the panels,and put new panels in.
MR. KUHL-Okay. So that's existing you're saying?
MR.WHEELER-Exactly-
MR. HENKEL-I agree with Ron with that, but like you said unfortunately you can't really change that
now. I guess that's good,and I have no problem with that sign,but when you start getting not these like
these specialty care on these buildings, three sides there, I mean once you're in there you have to have
directional signs to point you to the buildings now. Do you really need to have that family care, special
care?
MR.KUHL-Yes,you do. Because when you go to the regular doctors over there,to specialty is over there.
It's the size of it,John.
MR. HENKEL-Then I agree,I think it's getting to be way too much signage.
MR. EICHLER-So I think,if you're talking just this one parcel here,I might agree with you a little bit,but
people drive in from our administrative building and are like,where's family health,where's specialty care,
and so I think all these directional signs are really needed, and they're put in spots where people come to
an intersection, they're like, do I bear right, go straight? It helps navigate them around to the different
areas,but I will say we do get a significant amount of complaints from people,from patients,and when we
walked the campus we felt this would get people to where they need to go,just our thought process.
MR.WHEELER-Architecturally do the signs fit and keep the same look. Letter size,it's a big parking lot,
people can find that door from,when they park their car up there it is. We're really just trying to give
everybody the best advantage we can give them to find where they're going. A lot of these people are
elderly. It takes them a long time to walk to the door. If they go to the wrong door and they're frustrated
and tired at that point. So it's just,whatever we can do to help.
MR. EICHLER-And even today,we do have several directional signs that of course we would be removing,
not quite as many, but all of the ones today are two by two. So they fit the Code requirements, but
unfortunately with what we need to say,we felt we need to expand above the four square foot regulation.
MR. MC CABE-Other questions?
MR. KEENAN-Do people drive both ways through that carport?
MR. EICHLER-Actually, not typically, no. I think Tom might have said we're going to have it on three
sides.
MR. KEENAN-Yes.
MR. EICHLER-We're actually, I thought we were not going to put it on the south side. Just the north
facing side and the east facing side. Do we have one on the south side? Yes,we do. Yes,I would,the south
side is probably not needed. It faces the woods. The north side,they come in one way,and when they're
parking they're looking at the building straight on. I would say those two are definitely needed.
MR. HENKEL-So you're going to eliminate that?
MR. EICHLER-I would eliminate the south. I have no problems with that.
MR. MC CABE-Other questions? A public hearing has been advertised. At this particular time I'm going
to open the public hearing and see if there's anybody out there who would like to address us on this
particular project? Seeing nobody,is there anything written,Roy?
PUBLIC HEARING OPENED
MR. URRICO-No written comment.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
MR. MC CABE-So I'm going to close the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
MR. MC CABE-And so,Jim,I wonder if you could make a motion for us.
The Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Queensbury has received an application from AJ Signs (for
HHHN). Applicant proposes to update several signs for the Hudson Headwaters complex at 161 Carey
Rd. Project includes 6 new wall signs and 10 freestanding signs. Freestanding (MMI) 64.2 sf relief for
greater than 60 sf, freestanding (BMI, BM2, &BM3) more than 1 freestanding sign; Directional signage
(D4, D6, D5, D9) directional signage greater than 4 sf, (D7& DS) more than 1 freestanding sign and less
than 15 ft setback{D7 2.5 It setback&DS 2 ft setback};Family Health signs 3.25 sf(2 wall signs)relief for
more than 2 wall signs on corner lot(G & F). Allowed signs:wall signs Kinney on east (B) &north(A)
separate business and a corner lot(will need permits).Oversized wall sign Specialty Care with logo (C&
D) at 3S sf where maximum allowed is 30 sf . Allowed wall sign one Family Health sign (E). Relief
requested for more than 2 wall signs, more than 1 freestanding sign, oversized directional signage, &
freestanding sign setbacks,and over sized wall sign.
Relief Required:
The applicant requests relief for more than 2 wall signs,more than 1 freestanding sign,oversized directional
signage,&freestanding sign setbacks.
Section 140—signs
One free standing sign MMl at 64.2 sf exceeds the 60 sf allowed at 25 ft setback. The plan includes five
additional freestanding signs (BMI, BM2, BM3); further D7& DS are freestanding signs where only one
free- standing sign is allowed. Setback relief needed for D7 where 2.5 It is proposed and DS where 2 ft
setback is proposed where a 15 ft setback is required. The direction signage D4,D6,D5,D9 greater than 4
sf. Wall signs proposed 2 (G &F)where only one wall sign is allowed. In addition, Specialty Care with
logo is proposed at 3S sf where 30 sf is the maximum allowed.
SEQR Type:Unlisted [Resolution/Action Required for SEQR]
Motion regarding Sign Variance No.7-2024.Applicant Name:AJ Signs (for HHHN)based upon the
information and the analysis of the above supporting documentation provided by the applicant,this
Board finds that this will not result in any significant adverse environmental impact. So we give it a
Negative Declaration, Introduced by John Henkel who moved for its adoption,seconded by Ronald
Kuhl:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Underwood,Mr. Keenan,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Henkel,Mr. Urrico,Mr. Kuhl,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
A public hearing was advertised and held on Wednesday,August 2S,2024.
Upon review of the application materials, information supplied during the public hearing, and upon
consideration of the criteria specified in Section 179-14-OSO(A)of the Queensbury Town Code and Chapter
267 of NYS Town Law and after discussion and deliberation,we find as follows:
1. Will an undesirable change be produced in the character of the neighborhood or will a detriment to
the nearby properties be created by the granting of the requested sign variance? It's essentially it's
adding the correct amount of signage necessary to navigate the facility on the campus.
2. Can the benefit sought by the applicant be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to
pursue,other than a sign variance? They've agreed to remove one of the signs that was proposed
on the south side,the Family Health sign,Sign G,and that's the only change they would make in
the process.
3. Is the requested sign variance substantial? It could be considered to be substantial but it seems to be
something to decrease the anxiety of people who are trying to get to their appointment.
4. Will the proposed sign variance have an adverse impact on the physical or environmental conditions
in the neighborhood or district? No.
5. Is the alleged difficulty self-created? It is,in effect,yes.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting OS/2S/2024)
6. In addition, the Board finds that the benefit to the applicant from granting the requested variance
would outweigh (approval) the resulting detriment to the health, safety and welfare of the
neighborhood or community;
7. The Board also finds that the variance request under consideration is the minimum necessary,-
S. The Board also proposes the following conditions:
a) The applicant agrees to remove the Family Health sign,Sign G,on the drive-thru side of the
building.
b) Adherence to the items outlined in the follow-up letter sent with this resolution.
(ZBA Board Member does Dot Deed to read the following A through F):
A. The variance approval is valid for one (1) year from the date of approval; you may request an
extension of approval before the one (1)year time frame expires;
B. If the property is located within the Adirondack Park,the approved variance is subject to review
by the Adirondack Park Agency(APA). The applicant is cautioned against taking any action until
the APA's review is completed;
C. Final approved plans in compliance with an approved variance must be submitted to the
Community Development Department before any further review by the Zoning Administrator or
Building&codes personnel'
D. Subsequent issuance of further permits,including sign permits are dependent on receipt of these
final plans;
E. Upon approval of the application; review and approval of final plans by the Community
Development Department the applicant can apply for a sign permit unless the proposed project
requires review, approval, or permit from the Town Planning Board and/or the Adirondack Park
Agency,Lake George Park Commission or other State agency or department.
BASED ON THE ABOVE FINDINGS I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE SIGN VARIANCE 7-2024,
Al SIGNS ,FOR HHHn, Introduced by James Underwood, who moved for its adoption, seconded by
Richard Cipperly:
Duly adopted this 28th Day of August 2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Henkel,Mr. Kuhl,Mr. Keenan,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Urrico,Mr. Underwood,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
MR. MC CABE-Congratulations,you have a project.
MR. EICHER-Thankyou.
MR. UNDERWOOD-In regards to the first one, I think Staff should identify whether the bike trail is a
necessary component. It's a recreational asset.
MRS. MOORE-So there's a map that was developed explaining sensitive uses. It may not have triggered
that when we did the 1,000 feet,but it is on the list.
MR. MC CABE-So that's a thought I had,being a frequenter of the bike trail.
MR. UNDERWOOD-I mean had that incident of the marijuana induced motorcyclist that took out the
family and killed the father and son further up the road. So I think it at least should be brought to the
attention of the Planning Board.
MRS. MOORE-I'm sorry,but it is. It is. It's identified,when they did the actual 1,000 feet specific,it may
not have hit that border. So it only hit these two borders. The bike trail is a listed sensitive use.
MR. MC CABE-But I wonder what's the property limit of the bike trail?
MRS.MOORE-Whoever is near the bike trail,so we map out,if it's within 1,000 feet of something,specific
to this one,it's identified as part of the relief being requested.
MR. MC CABE-Yes,but what are you considering the boundary?
MRS. MOORE-There's a property line.
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(Queensbury ZBA Meeting 08/28/2024)
MR. MC CABE-There is a property line?
MR. KEENAN-The bike path does have,yes.
MRS. MOORE-Yes,it does.
MR. URRICO-You have that overhead shot that has the circle around that shows exactly what is in there.
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. KUHL-So the use permit is the last thing they get?
MRS. MOORE-They get a site plan and a special use permit together.
MR. KUHL-Are they going to get a provisional site permit or is it going to be a permanent?
MRS. MOORE-So that is up to the Planning Board.
MR. KUHL-That's the Planning Board not the Town Board?
MRS. MOORE-Yes.
MR. KUHL-Really?
MRS. MOORE-So there's two things. The applicant still is, if I'm correct, has applied and may have
received his State license. So that's a requirement per our Town Code. So they have to have that before
they can even move forward through our process. So the end result is,if they don't have that State license,
they can't operate. So that's part of it. The Special Use Permit,when they go back to the Planning Board,
the applicant typically requests permanent. The Planning Board,just like you,would evaluate that. Do
we grant a permanent Special Permit,or a temporary. It's either a temporary or a renewable. So there's
three options. That's up to the Planning Board when they get to that.
MR. KUHL-The Planning Board does that,not the Town Board. Wow.
MRS. MOORE-So the Special Use Permit process has been dictated to the Planning Board.
MR. MC CABE-So with that,I make a motion that we adjourn tonight's meeting.
MOTION TO ADJOURN THE QUEENSBURY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEETING OF
AUGUST 28TH, 2024,Introduced by Michael McCabe who moved for its adoption, seconded by Robert
Keenan:
Duly adopted this 28`h day of August,2024,by the following vote:
AYES: Mr. Urrico,Mr. Cipperly,Mr. Underwood,Mr. Kuhl,Mr. Henkel,Mr. Keenan,Mr. McCabe
NOES: NONE
On motion meeting was adjourned.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Michael McCabe
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