2005-09-14 EastLakeGeorge MTG41
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60BIGlNAL
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JOINT PUBLIC HEARING
ON THE PETITION OF THE FORMATION
OF EAST LAKE GEORGE
HELD BEFORE: Town of Queensbury Town Board
and Town of Fort Ann Town Board
LOCATION: North Queensbury Volunteer
Fire Department
DATE: September 14, 2004
TIME: 7:05 p.m.
APPEARANCES
ROBERT HAFNER, ESQ.
MILLER, MANNIX, SCHACHNER & HAFNER, LLC
451 Glen Street
Glens Falls, New York 12801
Appearing on behalf of the Town of Queensbury
JOHN ASPLAND, ESQ.
FITZGERALD, MORRIS, BAKER & FIRTH, P.C.
One Broad Street Plaza - P.O. Box 2017
Glens Falls, New York 12801
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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MR. STEC: Okay. Good evening everyone
and welcome to the special hearing regarding
East Lake George Village's petition.
It is 7:05 p.m. on Wednesday, September
14th. And I'm looking for a flag.
I don't see
a -- there's a flag on the back of the North
Queensbury old pumper.
If everyone would
please rise and join me with the Pledge of
Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance)
MR. STEC: Okay. Thank you very much this
evening everyone for attending. And again this
is a special hearing.
It's a joint hearing of
the Queensbury Town Board and the Fort Ann Town
Board.
We're gOlng to do some very brief
introductions, so that you know who's up here.
Although we do have some name cards. And then
I'll turn it over to the Town of Queensbury
Town Council, Bob Hafner, who will brief
everyone on the -- the legal requirements as
far as the purpose of tonight's hearing and why
we're here and what the -- the legal ground
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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rules are for this hearing.
Following that, we will commence recelvlng
public comment regarding the petition that --
that the meeting was advertised.
And before I forget, we do have a
stenographer tonight and this meeting is also
being audio recorded.
However, we would like anyone that does
speak this evening, there -- there's a pad up
here that you can put your name and address,
for the record, to help the stenographer. But
also it would be very helpful to the stenograph
if you we speak slowly and clearly enough so
that she can do the best she can taking -- to
catch all of us.
And I'm going to try and remind myself as
much as possible too, because I can ramble
and -- and get going pretty fast, as my board
will tell you.
At the far end is Chuck Rice. He's our
Building and Grounds Director in Queensbury,
and he set up the audio this evening.
We have
Darleen Dougher is the Town
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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Clerk for Queensbury. Mary Jane Godfrey, In
in blue, is the Town Clerk for Fort Ann. In
the yellow shirt is Roger Boor, Ward One
Councilman. And for those that are from Pilot
Knob, Roger Boor is the North Queensbury Ward.
The Third Ward Councilman from Queensbury is
John Strough.
Later this evenlng -- he's got another
commitment -- Fourth Ward Councilman, Tim
Brewer will be sitting here.
Second Ward
Councilman, Ted Turner is on vacation out of
the town.
I'm Dan Stec. This is -- I'll let
you introduce your crew.
MS. HALL: Okay.
MR. STEC: How about that?
MS. HALL: To my right lS Duane Burch,
Town Councilman from Fort Ann. Bruce Whitney,
Town Councilman from Fort Ann and Inez
Mattison, Town Councilman and I'm Gayle Hall,
Supervisor of Fort Ann.
MR. STEC: Okay. And with that, what I'd
like to do now, at this point, is ask the Town
of Queensbury Council, Bob Hafner, to basically
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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go through his prepared remarks as far as what
the -- what the purpose is of this evening's
meeting.
And absolutely, Bob, you could take the
microphone if you want to, turn and face the
people. Or if you want to face us, it doesn't
really matter to me.
MR. HAFNER:
I'll face you. That will
work. And I'll try to talk loud. Oh, it works
well. That's good.
Supervisor Stec asked me to glve some
background concerning tonight's meeting.
So to
start, as everyone knows, this -- there was a
petition that was filed to incorporate the
Village of East Lake George, which is partially
located in the Town of Queensbury and partially
located in the Town of Fort Ann.
The Village Law details the process that
has to be followed.
If the petition was
properly prepared and filed, then the towns of
Queensbury and Fort Ann will hold a vote for
the voters within the territories of the
proposed village within their town. And that
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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will decide whether or not a village will
exist.
There's a detailed process that has to be
followed for the petition. Tonight is one part
of that detailed process.
This is the hearing on the petition.
However, this is not an opportunity for people
to explain why there should or should not be a
village.
According to Village Law, this hearing is
an opportunity for residents of the towns of
Queensbury and Fort Ann, who are qualified to
vote, to present their objections to the
supervlsors of the towns. The objections that
can be made are limited.
Under Village Law, there's SlX things and
I'm going to list them so that people have them
and get the -- get the idea of what can be
objected to.
The first item is that the person slgnlng
the petition was not qualified to do so. A
person would be qualified to sign the petition,
if he or she was a resident within the proposed
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(518) 251-2841
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village territory and was eligible to vote for
town officers in either town.
The second is that the petition was not
signed by at least 20 percent of the residents
who are eligible to vote within the portions of
the town located within the proposed village
territory.
This gets a little bit technical, so I'm
going to go on just a little bit on this one.
This calculation has to be done for each town.
So the portion of the proposed village that's
inside the Town of Queensbury, they need 20
percent of the residents In that area. And
then you need 20 percent of the residents
eligible to vote within the portion of the Town
of Fort Ann that's within the village -- the
proposed village.
The third item; that the proposed village
area is already within the bounds of a city or
a village.
The fourth item is that the proposed
village contains more than five square miles.
If it does, then there are other objections
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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that can be made.
The fifth item lS that the proposed
village, including both portions within
Queensbury and Fort Ann together, the objection
could be made that it does not contain a
population of at least five hundred regular
inhabitants.
The sixth assertive, anything else that's
relevant to the petition, the statue says that
the objection that could be made is that the
petition does not conform to any other
specified respect, such as any other
requirements under Village Law for the
petition.
So under Village Law, while objections can
be made right here tonight at this hearing, the
law goes on to say that objections are to be
made by residents qualified to vote in either
town, in writing and signed.
So if you make an objection, we would ask
that you write out your objection, date. You
have to print your name and address and slgn it
here tonight.
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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I brought a few pads to leave to the side,
thinking that people go can back and sign it,
and I would say deliver it to the Town Clerk,
and return the pad for people later in the
night.
I brought some pens for people.
The statute says that you do the hearing
and you do it in writing.
Under Village Law, the persons who
ultimately determine whether or not the
petition is valid are the supervisors of the
two towns.
So Dan and Gayle will make the
ultimate decision.
They're in charge of this hearing and will
call on people who wish to make objections for
the reasons listed in Village Law.
While under Village Law, the other Town
Board members do not have a formal role, you'll
note that they're -- the majority of them are
here tonight to participate and to hear what
the public has to say.
And it's our understanding that the Town
Supervisors will consult with their board. But
the ultimate decision, under the statute,
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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relies with them.
After the close of the hearing, the
Supervisors will have ten days to make their
determination whether or not the petition
complies with the requirements of the Village
Law.
This law is very technical.
It's not
going to be their decision whether or not they
agree.
It's just, does this petition meet the
statutory requirements.
If it does, it will go
on to a vote.
If it doesn't, then they'll say
it's -- it's not valid and the process will
stop.
The Supervisors' determination is supposed
to be filed with the Town Clerk within 15 days
of the close of the hearing. And the merits of
incorporating would be determined by the
voters, not the supervisors, if the petition is
valid. Thank you.
MR. STEC: Thank you, Bob.
I'm not sure,
Gayle, if your councilor you or anyone else at
this time has anything that you want to add
before I open the hearing.
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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MS. HALL: No.
MR. STEC: Or -- or anybody from the town
or the clerks.
Okay. With that, I will declare this
hearing open. And again as -- as Bob Hafner
pointed out, the intent here, under the statute
is that this hearing is regarding the petition,
itself.
And we are looking for people that want to
raise objections to any of the six items that
by Bob Hafner just detailed.
So with that, the public hearing -- or the
hearing is open. And I would just ask that
people raise their hands and -- and we will
call on people and we'll hear everyone who
wants to speak this evening.
Mr. Grasso -- and again, as we call on
people, just please come to the microphone,
state your name clearly, regarding that the
recalling that the stenographer is trying to
keep up with you. Write your name and address
on the pad -- on the paper in front of you.
And again, any objections to the petition,
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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either now before you make your public comment
or after you finish your comment at the
microphone, take the pad and a pen, write down
what your -- your -- your issue with the
petition was, sign it, address, legibly, so we
know who it was. And then give it one of the
two town clerks. Mr. Grasso.
MR. GRASSO: Can I talk now, Dan?
MR. STEC: Yes, Slr.
MR. GRASSO: Thank you.
I'm a tax payer.
I live at 23 Rappaport Drive. Can I talk and
write at the same time?
I'm here tonight to ralse an objection
to and I guess it would fall under Item Six,
as to the legality of the petition on the
grounds that when people were induced to sign
the petition, I think there was a set of
information that were being circulated that,
whether it was known at the time or whether it
subsequently became incorrect, induced people
into thinking that their taxes would be lowered
and induced people to sign a petition to form a
village, under circumstances that are not
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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correct today.
So the very -- and formed consent of the
person slgnlng the petition, I believe lS
incorrect.
And I'd also like to question the mapping
and the boundaries, as drawn. Thank you.
MR. STEC: Thank you. And again, just
grab a pad and -- and -- and jot that down as
we continue.
Anyone else this evening that would like
to address this hearing? Mr. Schomewolf.
MR. SCHOMEWOLF: Good evening.
Paul
Schomewolf, 239 Assembly Point Road.
S-C-H-O-M-E-W-O-L-F.
I believe this lS Item Six. But I have
concerns over seven pages on the petition from
the Town of Queensbury and I'm not sure, but I
don't believe that they conform with State
Election Law in that they -- the people that
signed them, somebody else or the same
person -- it doesn't matter -- has come through
and scratched out names and scratched out
addresses.
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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So I'd like to have some sort of judicial
review as to whether that conforms with the New
York State Election Law. And I suggest that an
attorney, like John Champolli (phonetic
spelling) who is a specialist in that area and
works with the New York State Senate might be a
good reference.
And the pages are C-15, C-18, C-23, C-24,
C-26, C-28 and C-31. Thank you.
MR. STEC: Okay. And again, if you could,
also fill in that sheet and then your
information.
And while you do that, we do have two
chairs, so I can -- we can kind of trade off.
Is there anyone else that would like to
address the petition this evening? Or
challenge -- challenge -- or complain of the
petition?
(No response)
MR. STEC: Anybody at all? Yes, Slr.
MR. RIEF: My name lS Peter Rief, R-I-E-F.
I live at 2930 Route 9-L here in North
Queensbury.
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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And I would just like to make a quick
comment regarding provision six, and something
that was said earlier tonight about people
being induced to sign the petition.
I did not sign the petition when it was
going around, because I was concerned about my
status as a somewhat seasonal, somewhat half
half here, half somewhere else resident of
Queensbury.
But I was around when the petitions were
being circulated, and I don't believe anyone
was induced to sign because of lower of tax
lowering of taxes. But I believe they were
induced to sign, whether we all felt the same,
that we needed representation that was more
than what we were getting.
A lot of us felt we were paying taxes and
getting nothing for it, including
representation.
So that what that was all about.
I jus t
want to note that one little fact to counter
what was said earlier.
MR. STEC: Thank you.
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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MR. RIEF: That's it.
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MR. STEC: Thank you. If you would
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also
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MR. RIEF: Yeah.
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MR. STEC: -- fill that In. Your name and
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address.
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MR. RIEF: Okay.
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MR. STEC: Is there anyone else this
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evening that would like to address the petition
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or challenge the petition?
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(No response)
MR. STEC: Anyone at all?
(No response)
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MR. STEC: Do you see anybody?
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MS. HALL: No, I do not.
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MR. STEC: Okay. Is there anybody at all?
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(No response)
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MR. STEC: All right. I will close this
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hearing, if you concur, Gayle?
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MS. HALL: Absolutely.
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MR. STEC: All right. I declare this
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hearing closed. And as our attorney pointed
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out not too long ago, we have ten days, Bob?
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MR. HAFNER: Ten days.
MR. STEC: Ten days to lssue our decision.
Gayle and I have, as Bob has indicated to our
Boards, that we will consult them. But as Bob
pointed out, under the Village Law, the
responsibility for the determination on this
petition lies solely with Gayle and myself and
we take it seriously. And we will do our best
job.
And within ten days, everyone will have
our decision. So I hope everyone wanted a
brief evening.
MR. DUNHAM:
Point of information? My
name is Jim -- be glad to. Just a question for
yourself, sir.
MR. STEC: Yes.
I -- I -- I didn't catch
your name.
MR. DUNHAM: My name is Jim Dunham, 2210
Mountain View Way, Catskill Bay.
I understand
that if you both agree, the process will go to
a vote.
If you do not agree, then you will
submit your decision, in writing, and the
process stops --
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
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MR. STEC: That lS what the attorney
MR. DUNHAM: until who knows what
happens; lS that correct?
MR. STEC: That lS that lS correct.
That lS what Bob Hafner stated.
MR. DUNHAM: Thank you.
MR. STEC: You're welcome. Okay. We
thank everybody for attending this evening.
And the hearing lS closed.
Do you have --?
MR. HARDT: I have just have a question.
MR. STEC: Sir, you've got to come up to
the microphone, Slr. Thank you very much,
though. And again, your name and address, for
the record and jot it on that pad.
MR. HARDT:
Fred Hardt, 113 Assembly Point
Road, Lake George, obviously.
Just a follow-up
question on what Jim said.
If you and the Supervisor from Fort Ann
decide that the petition isn't valid, I assume
you -- you would have to provide a checklist
we engineers like to call it a punch list -- of
why it wasn't valid.
MR. STEC: That would come out, explain
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
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one way or the other on the decision, whether
we felt it was valid or not valid.
I would
assume some -- a letter like that would
MR. HAFNER: Do you want me --?
MR. STEC: I would just as soon have our
attorney answer that. He can probably answer
it better than I can.
MR. HAFNER: Did you want me to answer
that? I can.
MR. STEC: Yeah. Yeah. I think --
there's two people that have asked a similar
question
MR. HAFNER: Okay.
MR. STEC: -- so where do we go from here.
We've closed -- Bob, we've closed
MR. HAFNER:
I'm sorry.
I'm not trying to
hit you. Bob Hafner.
MR. STEC: We're still on the record. We
closed the hearing and we now said that we have
ten days to make our decision.
If you could
just elaborate on what happens from here, Bob.
MR. HAFNER: Okay. The -- the next step
lS for the two town supervisors to make their
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decision. Their decision has to be made within
ten days. The written decision has to be filed
with the Town Clerk within fifteen days.
So they have an additional five days to
put it in writing and to get it filed, if they
want.
Their determination has to have at least a
brief summary of the reasons why they think the
petition is or is not valid. Well, is not
valid, or just a decision that it is valid.
So that answers your question, I think.
They have to have an explanation of -- of why,
if they find that it is not valid.
MR. HARDT:
Just one follow-up question.
Do we have any recourse after that?
MR. STEC: There's always recourse in the
u.s. All kinds of recourse. There's
there's a court system. There's -- I mean,
there's all -- there's a very complicated legal
process.
MR. HAFNER: Yeah. There is a process for
judicial reVlew, but it is not usually towns --
municipal attorney's job --
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
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MR. STEC: Correct.
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-- to outline that to the
MR. HAFNER:
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people.
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MR. STEC: That's why I was being a little
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flippant with -- with that. While -- you're
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right, there is an opportunity In the court
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system.
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I just want to make a personal
MR. HARDT:
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we're not antagonists
comment. I mean, we
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or we're we we
we'd like to work with
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whomever. But
MR. STEC: Yes, Slr.
MR. HARDT: -- we -- we need a solution
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on that.
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MR. STEC: And we're -- we appreciate
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that.
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MR. HARDT:
Do I have to -- do I write
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that
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MR. STEC: Yes. On the -- just make sure,
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on that pad. All right, everyone. Thank you
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very much for comlng this evening. And I'll
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adjourn the meeting.
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(The meeting was adjourned at 7:24 p.m.)
EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841
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1
2 CERTIFICATION
3 I, EILEEN M. SHARP, residing in the
4 Town of Johnsburg, County of Warren and State of
5 New York, Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public In
6 and for the State of New York, do hereby CERTIFY
7 that I recorded the preceding matter at the
8 time and place herein stated and the preceding
9 is a true transcript hereof to the best of my
10 knowledge and ability.
11
______~-/JÎ~~-fZ4p------
14 EILEEN M. SHARP
15 Dated: September 18, 2005
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EILEEN M. SHARP, COURT REPORTER
(518) 251-2841