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1977-05-26 SP 53 SPECIAL MEETING MAY 26, 1977 MEMBERS PRESENT: Michel Brandt-Supervisor Daniel Olson-Councilman Robert Barber-Councilman Frances Walter-Councilman Hammond Robertson-Councilman PRESS: Tri Co. News, WBZA, WWSC, Glens Falls Post Star GUESTS: Mr. Turnbull, Mr. Stewart, Mr. Norton, Mr. Goetz, Mr. AmtoLd, Mr. Hillman, Ray Irish-Rist Frost Engineers Informational Meeting-Queensbury Sewer System 8:04 P.M. SUPERVISOR BRANDT- The purpose of this meeting is to bring forth information on the local sewer district. Reviewed the processes of gathering information on the local system using old studies that the Town had done in the past. Rist Frost has been ]hired to gather and formulate data to present to the public tonight. Reviewed the rules in obtaining 75% federal funding and State aid for the project. Commented that as the formulation of the district was planned, informa- tion from outside such as from residents of a sec- tion of W.G.F. was used in the drawing up of the areas that should be served. Using the educated cost figures together with the County Costs the residents can now be given a bottom line cost figure of the sewer system. Commented on the recent work on the Broad Acres storm sewer system noting the pollution in the system. We are going to have to face the costs of taking care of our own pollution. . . the pollution of Half-Way Brook is getting worse as you go along its course. . . it is high time we face up to our responsibilities as a society and we say there are certain basic things we must provide, and certainly for the good health and welfare of the cuM- munity has to be the very first thing we have to face. . Turned the meeting over to Ray Irish o' Rist Frost Associates . MR. IRISH- Basically, we are not complete in our work. We have had many meetings .with the Town Board, along with this public information meeting to help develop the areas to be served in terms of economics and the need for a sewer system. Reviewed the history of the county system, the steps to formulate a system and funding changes that have recently been passed. The town received approval of our plan of study in December, 1976 for the local collection. Noting that work is not yet completed, preparation of our district will be completed sometime this summer so that a feferendum could be held on the town local f district in the fall. In regard to funding, the plan has been submitlted to see what areas can and can not be federally or state funded. Mr. Irish used several maps reviewing the areas to be served. Criteria for development is (a) , need, as a result of local conditions , effect of local health and water quality. (b) , sufficient development to financially handle the burden of cost of construct- ion so we are not putting in streets that are not developed. (c) , aid eligibility. Reviewed the West Glens Falls area and the Hudson Falls area in regard to cost and implementation of a sewer system. Costs figures based on recent bids for"'similar work. On the bond issue he suggested we sell bonds early to save interest 54 Inflation will be about 7% a year, also discussed construction and operation maintenance. Projected total assessed evaluation and total discharge units based on recent history. There will be approximately* 90 miles of pnpeline and 15 pumping stations. We have taken into consideration sewer department costs. Spoke on assumed costs of land acquisition. The foci&owing is the brochure passed out by Rist Frost Associates : Warren County, New York Table 14 (2) User Rating Schedule Type of User One Equivalent Discharge Unit (1) Single Dwelling Family Standard Unit Apartment Each apartment Bar and Grill Every 300 sq. ft. of patron area Beauty Shop Every 3 employees Barber Shop Every 3 employees Campsites Every 4 sites Car. Wash Every 4 stalls House of Worship Every 1,000 sq. ft. Convalescent home Every 2 beds Drive-In theatre Every 40 car spaces Diner Every 200 sq. ft. of dining area Hospital Every 2 beds Housekeeping cottage Every 2 cottages Industries (plus additional Every 5 employees dharge based on process waste quantities) Launderette Every two washing machines Mobile Home Each home Motels (also hotels , lodges , Every 3 rentable rooms rooming houses) Professional Offide Every 300 sq. ft. Restaurants Every 200 sq. ft. of dining area Schools Every 20 pupils Service stations Each Theatres Every 300 sq. ft. seating area Stores Every 2 ,500 sq. ft. sales area (1) Single family dwelling used as standard unit. (2) Rrproduced from "Report No. 1 on Wastewater Facilities Planning for the Lake George-Upper Hudson Region, Warren County, New York" Project No. C-36-970 March 1977 by Hazen and Sawyer. May 26 , 1977 Page 2. ESTIMATED USER COSTS LOCAL SEWAGE COLLECTION SYSTEM TOWN OF QUEENSBURY I TOTAL CAPITAL PROJECT COST (1) _ $31,100, 000. ESTIMATED STATE AND FEDERAL AID + 22,400,000. NET CAPITAL LOCAL COST $ 8,700,000. Formula for Assessing Users : (2) (1) Capital Costs (Debt Service) 50% Ad Valorem = $2 .59/$1000 A.V. 5071 EDU' s (3) = 49. 31 (2) Operation and Maintenance - 100% Based on EDU's Connected Typical User Costs : (2) Type Assessed VAJue EDU' s Debt O&V .(4) Total (4) 55_ Type Assessed Value EDU' s Debt Service 4&M(4) Total(4) Single $15 , 000 1 39+49=88 18 $106. Family 20,000 1 52+49=101 18 119. Homes 25 , 000 1 65+49=114 18 132. 30,000 1 78+49=127 18 145 . Unit - _ Motel 375,000 16-2/3 971+8221793 300 2093. 450,000 16-2/3 1166+822-1988 300 2288. Retail + Store 120, 000 4 311+197=508 72 580. 10,000 SF 180,000 4 466+197=663 72 735 . —Sales Area i (1) Based on ENRCCI=3150 - provides 25% for inflation above present costs . (2) Maximum cost year based on phasing of three bond issues and construction. Bonds 30 year, 6-1/2% interest. (3) EDU is abbreviation for Equivalent Discharge Unit - See over for Schedule of EDU's. (4) Basic costs for standard service connection maintained by Owner. For users utilizing grinder pump units furnished, installed and maintained by Town, increase annual cost by $35. per EDU. May 26 , 1977. OPEN FORUM: MR. MONTESI- What happens if the County system goes through and the town system does not? MR. BRANDT- If the county system is approved and the town does not the Bost would rise for the other users. I would guess Audit and Control would say it did not meet their standards and therefore the referendum would probably be null and void. Certainly if enough towns did that within the district it would nullify the county system. MR. TURNBULL- Questioned that hhere is a large area in Oueensbury that would not be serviced - noted Oneida Corners east of McDermotts. . MR. ..IRISH- Yes, It does not go all the way over to Oneida Corners . MR. TURNBULL- Questioned if this will service the Industrial Park? MR. IRISH- No. MR. TURNBULL- Noted that there are additional hook-up charges- questioned the type of pipe that will be required? 14R. IRISH- There will have to be an ordinance stating the. tVpe of pipe that can be used. UNKNOWN- How many years will the phasing in take and what order j will you be phasing in? LnR. IRISH- We have- not looked at it to see which would come, first, just as a whole district. The first bidding will be in 1979, construction from 1970 to 1983. MR. STEWART- What will be the effect to the costs of the schools? MR. IRISH- I do not know their existing costs so I could not tell how much they will go up. On the user rating schedule, one equivalent discharge unit per 20 people. MR. NORTON- Ouestioned the cost to vacant land? 56 MR. IRISH- It would just have an advalorem tax. MR. NORTON- Would the first phase of @ onstruction be going on at the same time as the county construction? MR. IRISH- Basically, on the same time as the county. If it was dumped on the market all at the same time, it could have an effect on the cost. UNKNOWN- Can this be limited to local contractors? MR. IRISH- It can not be strictly bid out to local contract, ' ' it can be put out to bid on such projects of a certain size and magnitude that local contractors can be competitive. MR. MORTON- Will grinders be used at residents where you have to pump up? MR. IRISH- Not every person that would have to pump into the sewer system will have a grinder pump. MR. MORTON- Will the grinder pumps be on the property of the owner? MR. IRISH- On the property of the owner. MR. STEWART- Questioned if the water will now be diverted from Lake George into Queenwbury? MR. IRISH- Yes. MR. BRANDT- Lake George would like to buy water from Queensburv. MR. NORTON- Is it right, that you have to dump outside the Lake George water shed? MRS. WALTER- No. UNKNOWN- What would be the cost if you were in the district but did not hook up? MR. IRISH- That is an administrative question to decide if you did not have to hook up or if you will be mandated to. If you did not you would pay the advalorem tax and EDU for debt service and operation maintenance costs . MR. GOETZ- Commented on sewer conditions in tha pyramid mall- would like to see the sewer system ego to Industrial park to encourage industry. MR. BRANDT- Since there is no industry there right now, it would be foolish to provide sewage on the basis one might arrive. If we see serious interdst we would look toward extending the sewer district to accomodate them. PAIR. IRISH- Commented that the industrial park involves two � counties . The Town of Queensbury can not form a district going into the Town of Kingsbury. MR. BRANDT- Wet industry we would encourage into the central district to sewer easier. MR. IRISH- Due to federal laws industry must pay industrial cost recovery, part of the monies go back to the town for future costs. MR. GERO- questioned if there was a certain distance established where you would have to hook up? MR. IRISH- The line will go in front of your property. 57 MR. ARNOLD- Does the aosts include the paving of 90 miles of road? MR. IRISH- Basically it will be patching - some, more than that. MR. ARNOLD- What happens when there are overruns? MR. IRISH- If you have to expend more, you have to come back to the voters . --MR. O' CONNOR- How many users have been projected to be hooked up? [R. IRISH- 7900 EDU' s in the year 1982 . MR. BRANDT- The funding for local district primarily is coming from the Federal government, an' average;.of 72°,.i, fund- ing frpm -they Federal Government and State Agency for the total distttct. Take the Capital Construction Cost, if congress decides not to fund, as recommended by agencies, at some point we may have to fund 100% if we are mandated to clean up our act. COUNCILMAN WALTER- Questioned Mr. Brandt' s figures , the fact of the matter is the district would not be as large as it is right now, if we do not have the 757 funding. Parts of the Town are being severed, not for environmental reasons but for economic reasons. The figure you gave could not be right, because we would be cutting down the size of the district. SUPERVISOR BRANDT- We have to make decisions based on economics , anr_1 this was based on the best economics available to us. COUNCILMAN WALTER- You know, we would not have the size district, if we were not promised 757 aid. Questioned Mr. Irish, If we do not get the 75% aid what will happen to the plan? MR. IRISH- That. .is not my decision. . . COUNCILMAK WAFTER- Commented that the meeting was to be a public information meeting not a merchandising job. We came to present figures to the people and let them decide if they can afford this . . .as to environmentally and pocket book. . . .I claim the district is very large and it is so because of funding. . . What authority could mandate that the Town go on a sewer system? COUNCILMAN BARBER- The Federal EPA. . . Notdd the City has been mandated. . MR. IRISH- I do not know the date of the City mandate. . .all communities that have existing systems that discharge surface waters into navigable waters , have discharge permits issued by the Federal Government. �JUNCILMAN BARBER- Commented that' .there are several areas in the Town of Queensbury that are experiencing sewer sewage problems. I think we have to address it presently. . . . want to see sewers bt Glen Lake and Lake George and the business district. . . I do not necessarily think that areas of Westland need them but I have had to compromise because there are areas of the Town that need it and need it badly. If we do not accept this plan now, any more delay will cost us approximately 4 million dollars per year just in escalated costs. Questioned if the. s.ystem had to go in beaaaaaeof drainage into navigable waters? COUNCILMAN BARBER- Noted that many residents use the lake for drinking water. 58 At what point can the Federal Government mandate a sewer system? COUNCILMAN ROBERTSON- Noted that no one can answer that question. . . spoke on the publiei�s awareness of pollution problems . in our society. . .noted that there is a growing demand for everybody to clean up. Question what areas right now, are having sewage problems that would prompt a mandate? COUNCILMAN BARBER- Noted areas such as Hovey Pond, behind the Pyramid Mall and Queensbury Plaza and the Sunnyside area. .! COUNCILMAN ROBERTSON- If yourare talking percentages of the 66 square miles, 17,: MR. IRISH- Stated the areas of Lake George, Noth4 Queensbury and along Quaker Road have problems. . . Questioned if the sewer system is really necessary? COUNB UMM BARBER- Commented that the growth rate of our town has increased substantially in the last 20 years but the services have not accomodated the growth, until the last 3 or 4 years and it is costing us a lot of money in taxes , as a result , mofe people have become concerned about the cost of government. Noted we have to preserve what we have left. . . Questioned if the problems could not be solved on a localized basis? MR. IRISH- Noted that it is not all problems, commented on the rapid commercial growth WE the Town. 6UPERVIS0R BRANDT- . . . In my humble opinion, I think it is the right time and the right thing to do and I think it is cost effective and a far better deal than trying to do it slip shod. . . COUNCILMAN WALTER- Much of what Mr. Brandt has said is very true, but he is not even in the district on the or*penal plans the way it was worked out on the County level , it went to West Mountain. . . SUPERVISOR BRANDT- It would not have included my house where I presently live so you are not correct. COUNCILMAN WALTER- Much of that area which does not have public water supply was taken out some of the area has excellent soils for drainage, they have a public water supply, there areas were left in. We are talking about a political boundary, it does not have to do with economics or environment, we are gettin4 down to the politics of the thing. Noted that she was not against sewer but felt that there are some inthe district that shouldn' t be and some that are tag, that should. Commented on the area that are ie need, some of the boundaries are not inclusive, they are a matter of economics , because , yes , we are dealing with asses.sed evaluation and that is the name of the game. MR. GOETZ- Commented that he felt Lake George is Ing . . . noted the economic loss that this coul cause. . . Strongly in favor of having this passed. COUNCILMAN OLSON- Commented on the problems of Glen .Lake, the Association there is chemically treating the lake. . .A sewer system will not only help Queensbury but also Warren County. SUPERVISOR BRANDT- This system is not designed primarily to bring in industry, it is designed to take care of a problem we have now—Commented that he argued hard to get any area he knew that had good soil to et it out, I did Aot get them all won but in the end tt is a political decision, there are a lot of people that have their input, they each have their vote, they did their best and everyone of them did it for the good of the people they represented, they did not represent themselves, not one soul, did I ever see that represented himself_ and his own personal interests. I think the decision that came out of there are very solid decisions . . .I personally think it is a good system and I think it is time to go with it. t PAUL HILLMAN- I think this is a grand system, I think they are looking to the future. . . MR. ARNOLD- I think it is a crime to put areas where there is no water quality problee into this district just to gain the tax assessment—noted that the project should have encompassed the problem spots not the whole area. MR. IRISH- The size of the district is up th ,thh Town fathers and the residents of the town. . . SUPERVISOR BRANDT- Commented in setting up of the district we would service as much of the area within good economics, that can be predicted. . .if you want to shrink the Town District, that can be looked at . . . COUNCILMAN BARBED- Commented that the membersoof hhis Board did .go to the County and try and have the County change certain area such as areas of WJR.F. and Harrisena, but this did not succeed. . . SUPERVISOR BRAND.T- Reviewed the process of formulating the district. . . areas to be serviced and not to be serviced, noted that he worked hard to get Westland out of the district because he felt they did not need it , but the finding was that it be included. On motion the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Donald A. Chase Town Clerk Town of Queensbury REGULAR P- EETING JUNE 14, 1977 MEMBERS PRESENT Michel Brandt-Supervisor Daniel Olson-Councilman Frances Walter-Councilman Hammond Robertson-Councilman Joseph Brennan-Town Counsel ABSENT Robert Barber-Councilman PRESS [ ]SC T014N OFFICIALS Carl Garb, Floyd Martindato, George Liapes , Harold Boynton GUESTS Joseph Daire, Les Baird, Arthur Turnbull, Glenn Grenno, ?`fir. Fish, Mr. Gealt Meeting Opened 7: 30 P.M. Salute to the Flag. BIG OPENING NOTICE, SHOt�M HIGHWAY OBSOLETE EnUIPMENT T014N CLERK DONALD A. CHASE READ THE FOLLOWING BIDS THAT WERE RECEIVED. Morgan K. Combs VanDusen Road W. Glens Falls, N.Y.