1975-09-30 SP tJ L
SPECIAL MEETING September 39, 1975
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Gordon S. Streeter-Supervisor
Daniel Olson-Councilman
Harold Robillard-Councilman
Hammond Robertson-Councilman
J. David Little-Town Counsel
J. Arthur Norton-Chairman of the Planning Board
Mrs. Richardson-Paanning Board
PRESS: Lee Coleman
TOWN OFFICIALSt George Liapes, Harold Boynton, Robert Eddy
GUESTS: Daniel Sweet, Mrs. Mary Grey-League of Women Voters, Betty
Hodgkins, Mr. Carl DeSantis, Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Messid6 Mr. Campbell,
Mr. Stewart, Mr. Krebs, Mr. SiTtt, Mr. Schwartz, Mr. RoSsman, Mr. Rogg:
HEARING OPENED: NOTICE READ- 7 : 31 P.M.
Supervisor Streeter-noted the long hours that were put into the drawing
up of the pceposed Sign Ordinance. . .and thanked the member* who worked
on this project for their dedication. . .
Mrs. .G _-Le&gne,-of1iW9aen Voters-Statement-The Glens Fails area
League oo women Voters would like to' take this opportunity to commend
the Town Board on its awareness of the need for a more comprehensive
SignLaw in Queensbury, and upon its decisive action to expidite the
pas®age of such law. As a citizens group the League would also like to
express its appreciation to members of the Special Sign Law Committee
for their many hours .of dedicated work. The League endorses that section
of the proposed law tkquiring. conformity , of all signs within a five year
period. It is the feeling of our membership that this provision. will
enhanse the appearance of the town and facilitate equable administration.
It is our hope that with the enactment of a new law it will be possible
for developers to submit complete sign plans thus enabling the various
town board to review the layout as a total concept rather than as a series
of piece meal requests. . The League also noted with interest the penalty
provisions included in the ordinance proposal it applaud.s: this: recognition
by the town government any statute is only as effective as the determination
with which it is, adminfstered. The League stenagly urges that the highest
priority be given to strick enforcement of the iew.law. Thank you.
Mr. Daniel Sweet-Queensbury- voiced his concern over the fact that the now
propose sign ordinance might discourage new business. . .
Mrs. Richardson- We do not want to stop signs but to limit the number a
us ness can put up. . . .
Beth Hodgkins-Queensbury-do appreciate that we need signs but also concerned
o er sa ety. (traffic) and preservation of the type of land we have. . .1 would
like it kept in some kind of order. . .I am in favor of the sigp ordinance. . .
Mr. Carl R. DeSantis,
STATEMENT TO QUEENSBURY TOWN BOARD
Town of Queensbury 9-30-75
Made by Carl R. DeSantis, President, Aviation Road Development Corp.
The proposed sign ordinance would have the effect of forcing the j
removal of many signs and reducing the size of many others. - No
distinctions are made for business catering primarily to travelers
using the Northway. This will create a hardship not. only to the
business involved, but also to the travelers and to the town itself.
There are no services aside from rest rooms on the interstate system
and none planned for the future that I know of. Travelers seeking
food, lodging, gasoline, general retail merchandise must leave the
Interstate system to find these services. The small and almost
invisible signs such assproposed by this ordinnce could cause
accidents as a result of the travelers delayed recongition ofa a
facility, which would not allow for adequate time for them to slow
down and leave the travel lane to attmmpt to reach the facility by
the access lane. A good example of adequate size signing for the
convenience of the traveler are the siggs put up by the State well
in advance of an exit and identifying the exit at the ramp. These
are large enough to give the traveler time to react. Presently the
State has no provision for trade name informational signing in
advance of exits such as the States of Vt. , Virginia and others.
Many travelers will not leave a limited access highway unless they are
sure that. they will be able to purchase the brand of gasoline for
which they have a credit card, dine at a chain restaurant whose name
they know or sleep in a name motel. The 'lack of adequate signing
would thus cause the traveler to go to another facility in another
town or county which would cause a loss` of revenue to the town by
virtue of the fact that the sales tax generated by this business
would go elsewhere. In the case of my own business' s which are restaurants,
75% of the income is generated from travelers, and billborrds and
identification signs are the medium that informs these people.
--Billboards along the Interstate highvays are presently regulated by
Federal Law and have been recognised as a necessary and important
tool for informing the travelling°public of the services and facilities
ahead. This Law requires them to be at least 660 ft. off of the
Interstate --right of of way which has effectively kept the landscape from
becoming over-crowded with miscellaneous, ineffectual and unpleasant-
looking billboards. I would urge that the Board take recognition of
this fact, and for the good of the business community and the town,
allow to remain those billboards which* are visible from the Northway
u,� and which comply with the Federal Lqw.: Also, one of the greatest
v-i dangers while driving on a limitod, access highway is driver fatigue.
Trees, mountains and sky 'are fine, b ut iv driving hundreds of miles
an occasional informational billbo:ad can greatly relieve the fatigue.
I do not think anyone here can quarrel with the fact that Interstate 87
has helped to develop the Town of Queensbury commercially. Catering
to the travelling public is a fact of Iife' and an asset to this town
and should be encouraged, along with the rest of the growth that we
have enjoyed. Consequently, I would propose that at the very least the
proposed ordinaace should be amended to exempt a corridor along the
Adirondack Northway, Interstate 87, which would include all businesses
hav6ing footage on the Northway and those within 1000 feet of an exit
ratiqr. Even if complete exemption is not granted, the need for
larger si)Ws along such a corridor than those generally lirmitted by
the ordinance should be recognised.
Mr. Robert Eddy-spoke on bill boards and noted that the State is looking into
the use of advertising local business on the northway. . .
Mr. Hoffman- Signs of Progress- for the sign ordinance- was in opposition to
Page 12 B no. 2 noted that he did not think it was fair to some stores
the 107. figure noted that 20% would be more realistic. . .
Arthur Norton-noted that it was changed because it was felt that 20% would
give an excess of sign area. . .
noted that he felt in the cases of shopping centers that the identification
you should see from the read should be the name of the shopping center. . .
Robert Eddy-noted that the purposes- ,of 'these sections was to provide a
graduated scale in sizes of signs. . .Mr. Kurosaka set it up. . .
Mr. Herbert Messick-Adirondack Media- noted that the ordinance as written
is discrimidtory as far as out door advertising. . .our basic sign is 300 .
sq. feet and in two placed in the ordinance is. prohibits standarized
out door advertising. . .why wawsT not some provision madd-for including
standarized outdoor advertising. .
J. Arthur Norton- The consineu f the board was that we were interested
in eliminating your out door advertising. The baud hopes that by having
the five year amortization period that the courts will have then decided
on suith cases as in the town of Brighton. Then we will know which way to go.
GGe�eo�rrgge Lia es-There are 69 billboards in the Town of Queensbury.We have some
witH no
ivaion on them because of the poor condition and we have some with
an evaluation of 3500.00 dollars. (pictures were displayed) .
Mr. Cam bell Counsel for Adirondack Media-is it my understanding that there
as
been no provision made for standardized outdoor advertising?
Mr. Norton-that is correct.
Counsel Campbell - Are t-hey goi-ng to do the same that they did in Saratoga
Springs with a similar ordinance and take down our signs with chain saws
overnight?
Mr.-IIl. - Na, this a five year plan we are proposing.
Mr. Cam bell-remarked how the courts are now ruling their industry.
ounse noted that the New York State Supreme Court in the case of the Town
of Brighton, the courts were in favor of the outdoor advertising signs,the
town could remove those signs with just compensation. If the state pays
compensation through the Beautification Act, then must the towns, counties
and cities pay the same otherwise the Equal Protection clause under the
Constitutkpn is violated. In a recent series of decisions billboards and
commercial_,_adverfising are entitled to the FreeSpeech amendment.
We agree yo:=.< ses but t-he ordinance flies in the face of a
recent court decision and if you wish to do this you have to pay just
compensation.
Attorney Robert Stewart-slated that the proposed ordinance lacked a
var ance clause.
Mr. Norton-I think this was an oversight, it was the intention of the Board
to allow variances.
Mr. Stewart- noted the unfairness as to. the signs in the Pyramind Mall noting
that t ey would have to come down after-�a period of five years.
Asked if. the age of the signs could be listed. I would like to know if their
can be any provisions for off premises signs, to bring commerce in the Town
of Queensbury.
Mr. Norton-It was discussed briefly, allowing standard advertising signs
along th a Northway. but limiting it only to businesses in the town, but their
was some question as to the legality of this.
Mr. Hoffman-noted there was no more room for signs on the Northway.
Mr. Krebs- noted the irregularity of the proposed ordinance in that the sign
fees would go to the Building Inspector instead of the Town. Noted he did
not wish to pay for .the removal of these signs and felt most taxpayers felt
the same way.
Mr. Stewart-Mould it be possible to allow for off premises signs by Special
Permit only or variance only rather than by total prohibition,
Mr. Messick -Why, specifically is the standard outdoor advertising signs
going tie prohibited in five years? Is there something objectionable
about the type of unit that we build?
Mr Edd - When we drew up this law, we drew it up with the views of the Adirondacl
aF i and the Lake George Park Commission.
Mr. Messick-What is objectionable to standardizetigns?
Mr. Olsen-ths signs that I object to are the ones that advertiser out of town
us nesses. They do not generate business in the town.
Mr. Messick-those signs did generate money in the town.
Mrs. Richardson-Noted that some people resent largessigns in that they cover
the natura - eauty of the area.
Mr. Messick-Noted that the Outdoor Advertising Assoc. of America to which I
am a member does follow a National Code. We would like in your ordinance to
be recognized as a legitamate business.
Mr. Norton -Would you suggest that if the Town went by the code, would
that be—acceptable.
Mr. Messick-. said yes.
Mr. Robillard-asked if their was a written code for the Outdoor Ali
Assoc. , and Tf so could we have a copy of it.
Mr. Messick yes, I will provide you with one. The code is self policed.
Larry Rossman -is the reason that the billboards will be eliminated at the- end
of ve years is that they are non conforming.
Mr. Norton - Yes.
Mr. Rossman- My sign is Non conforming. Will it have to come down, because
of its Locations it can not be moved back any further.
Mr. Norton-This is where the variance part of the ordinance could be used.
Councilman Robertson-1 believe there have been some good thoughts brought out
an we must now tfilac them over.
Councilman Robillard-There has been many things brought out in this meeting,
I could not posstbly vote on this tonight. We will have to have more meetings
between the Town Board and the Planning Board before we make our decision.
councilman Olson-It will have to brought before committees before making a
ec s on.
wall-Noted that we should be proud of the Town of Queensbury
aan' a noof try to outdo each other in the size oil our signs.She spoke
in favor of the ordinance.
Daniel Sweet-I do not think that we need a new ordinance.
Councilman Robertson*,Noted that the new ordinance would cut down on the
k variances that t e oards are now receiving.
".4
Cq Mr. Norton-There is a validity clause in the ordinance stating that if any
x se— c�n Ts- found invalid by the courts the rest of the ordinance would still
be valid.
Mr. Streeter-declared the meeting at a close,noting that a decision will not
be made tonight but all fact will be taken into condideration and gone over
carefully.
Bernard�Rogge�-voiced his concern of the limiting of advertising which may
ufi rt the tourist business. A sign ordinance is necessary but do not limit it
so that the local businesses will be hurting.
! Meeting adjourned at 9:44 P.M.
Respectfully submitted
Donald A. Chase
Town Clerk
SPECIAL MEETING OeTOBER 6, 1975
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Gordon S. Streeter-Supervisor
Daniel Olson-Councilman
Harold Robillard-Councilman
Hammond Robertson-Councilman
J. David Little-Town Counsel
ABSENT: Robert Barber-Councilman
PRESS: Chad Blakkman, Pat Childs
TOWN OFFICE: Betty Eggleston, Phyllis Joslyn, Thomas Flaherty,
Jay Morey, Roger Hewlett
'Meeting Opened-Salute to the'Flag. . .led by Deputy Supv. 'Robillard
Supervisor Streeter received the tentative budget from Town Clerk
Donald A. Chase. . .
The Supervisor outlined the following:
a.) This tentative budget is submitted for work and discussion to
the Town Board until October 28th when the preliminary budget will be
adopted.
b.) The Public Hearing on the budget will be held November 6th